Second Session • Thirty-Seventh Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba · . . . · __ -,!.:..:��� .• _ . . •I DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published u11der the authority of The Ho11ourab/e George Hickes Speaker Vol. LI No.6- 1:30 p.m., Thesday, December 12,2000 ISSN 0542-5492

Member AGLUGUB, Cris ALLAN, Nancy ASHTON, Steve, Hon. ASPER, Linda BARREIT, Becky, Hon. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. CERILLI, Marianne CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. CUMMINGS, Glen DACQUA Y, Louise DERKACH, Leonard DEWAR, Gregory DOER, Gary, Hon. DRIEDGER, Myrna DYCK, Peter ENNS, Harry FAURSCHOU, David FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. GILLESHAMMER, Harold IIELWER, Edward HICKES, George JENNISSEN, Gerard KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie LATHUN, Oscar, Hon. LAURENDEAU, Marcel LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. LOEWEN, John MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. MAGUIRE, Larry MALOWAY,Jim MARTINDALE, Doug McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. MIUYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon.

MITCHELSON, Bonnie MURRAY, Stuart NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom PENNER, Jack PENNER, Jim PITURA, Frank PRAZNIK, Darren REID, Daryl REIMER, Jack ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. ROCAN, Denis RONDEAU, Jim SALE, Tim, Hon. SANTOS, Conrad SCHELLENBERG, Harry SCHULER, Ron SELINGER, Greg, Hon. SMITH, Joy SMITH, Scott STEFANSON, Heather STRUTHERS, Stan TWEED, Mervin WOWCHUK, Rosann, lion. MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Seventh Legislature Constituency The Maples St. Vital Thompson Riel Inkster Brandon East Radisson Kildonan Ste.

Rose Seine River Russell Selkirk Concordia Charles wood Pembina Lakeside Portage Ia Prairie Wolseley River Heights Minnedosa Gimli Point Douglas Flin Flon St. James The Pas St. Norbert La Verendrye Fort Whyte St. Johns Arthur-Virden Elmwood Burrows Lord Roberts Minto River East Kirkfield Park Interlake Emerson Steinbach Morris Lac du Bonnet Transcona Southdale Rupertsland Carman Assiniboia Fort Rouge Wellington Rossmere Springfield St. Boniface Fort Garry Brandon West Tuxedo Dauphin-Roblin Turtle Mountain Swan River Political Affiliation N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C.

N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. Lib. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P.

191 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, December 12,2000 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PRESENTING PETITIONS Health Centre Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Warna Sheridan, Donna Rogerson, Michele Costen and others praying that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba request that the Minister of Health (Mr. Chomiak) and the First Minister (Mr. Doer) instruct the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority to end its plans to remove the Health Centre at 10 8 Bond Street from Transcona and to consider finding existing space in downtown Transcona.

READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS Health Centre Mr. Speaker: I have reviewed the petition of the honourable Member for Charleswood (Mrs. Driedger). It complies with the rules and practices of the House. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [Agreed] Will the Clerk please read.

Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba, humbly sheweth: THAT the Health Centre, located in downtown Transcona at 10 8 Bond Street, is an important government service to the community of Transcona and surrounding areas; and THAT the said Health Centre is centrally located, close to major bus routes, and theref ore convenient to the people, with its community based services of Pre-natal and Post-natal care, Public Nurse consultations, Immunizations, Vaccinations, and Mental Health services; and THAT the said Health Centre also contains the administrative support for home care in the area, with home care workers reporting in and out of the centre; and THAT the loss of the Health Centre would be a major economic set back to the commercial well being of downtown Transcona and the entire Transcona community; and THAT the people of Transcona were not consulted prior to the Provincial Government making the decision to relocate the Health Centre and that the plan for its relocation to a 'strip mall district' runs contrary to all concepts of community development; and THAT there is plenty of space in downtown Transcona for the construction of a permanent facility or for the leasing of new space or for the expansion and renovation of the existing facility.

WHEREFORE YOUR PETITIONERS HUMBLY PRAY THAT the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba request that the Minister of Health and the First Minister of Manitoba immediately instruct the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority to end its plans to remove the Health Centre at 10 8 Bond Street from Transcona and instead direct the WRHA to consider finding existing space in downtown Transcona, since much space exists, for both their short term and long term facility needs. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the following three copies pursuant to

section 13 of The Trade Practices Inquiry Act, being

chapter 11 0 of the Statutes of Manitoba, 19 70. I have the honour to report that no inquiries were commenced subsequent to last year's date, December 8, 19 99.

I92 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December I2, 2000 Hon. Diane McGifford (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Tourism): Mr.

Speaker, I am pleased to table the following reports , copies of which have already been distributed: the Department of Culture, Heritage and Tourism Annual Report I999-2000; Manitoba Arts Council Annual Report I999; Seniors Directorate Annual Report I999-2000; Manitoba Lotteri es Corporation Annual Report I999-2000; Manitoba Liquor Control Commission Six­ Month Report for the period April I to September 30, 2000; Manitoba Liquor Control Commission Three-Month Report for the period April I to June 30, 2000; the Status of Women Annual Report I999-2000; the Manitoba Women's Advisory Council Annual Report I999-2000.

I am also pleased to table the following report: Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Se cond Quarter Report for the period April I to September 2000. * (13: 35) Hon. Eric Robinson (Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the I999-2000 Annual Report of the Department of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs, copies of which have been previously distribute d. INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 9- The Vital Statistics Amendment and Consequential Amendments Act Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Mr.

Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr. Robinson), that leave be given to introduce Bill 9, The Vital Statistics Ame il<:ltlte� t and Consequ ential Amendments Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les statistiques de l'etat civil et modifications correlatives, and that the same be now received and read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Lemieux: This bill will remove restrictions for a child's surname, which will allow parents to follow their cultural and ethnic naming traditions. The bill will also remove restrictions on access to older Vital Statistics event records currently only available to family members. Copies of birth registra tions over I 00 years old, marriage registra tions over 80 years old, and death registra tions over 70 years old will also be available to the general public.

Motion agreed to. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today from Ralph Brown School 26 Grade 6 students under the direction of Mrs. Cora Duffy. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Attorney General (Mr. Mackintosh). Also in the public gallery from Maples Colle giate, we have 2I Grade II students under the direction of Mr. Howard Kowalchuk. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Member for The Maples (Mr. Aglugub).

I would like to also draw the members' attention to the Speaker's Gallery where we have with us today Mr. Victor Tootoo who is the Assistant Deputy Minister of Finance for the Government ofNunavut territory. Also, I will let people know Victor is my nephew. On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Budget Tax Competitiveness Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, we know that when the Premier had the opportunity to show Manitobans that Today's NDP was diffe rent than yesterda y's NDP we found out that they failed.

They had the opportunity to pass on the full benefit of the fe deral tax savings to Manitobans. When he had that chance, he failed. He decided that he wanted to keep the money himself for the Government because he thinks he knows how to spend it better than Manitobans do.

December 12 , 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 19 3 In fact, Mr. Speaker, during the pre-Budget consultations, Manitobans were shocked to hear the Premier (Mr. Doer}-[interjection] Well, they were shocked to hear that the Premier was actually thinking about raising taxes by introducing new ones. Obviously our Premier did not fall far from the Howard Pawley apple tree. My question to the Deputy Premier, Mr.

Speaker, is: As you prepare for the upcoming Budget, what plan do you have to increase Manitoba's tax competitiveness, an area in which we have fallen so far behind the other provinces in the last 14 months? * (13 :40) Hon. Jean Friesen (Deputy Premier): I thank the honourable member for that question and would like him perhaps to begin one of his questions one day with an assumption of some responsibility and an assumption for the number of times, 79 times over and over again, that this previous government raised taxes.

Mr Speaker, they raised them in user fe es; they raised them in seniors fishing licences; they raised them particularly in property taxes. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Point of Order Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Beauchesne's 417: "Answers to questions should be as brief as possible, deal with the matter raised and should not provoke debate ." Just in case this minister is not aware, she does not have the leader's latitude. She should be responding to the questions being put. Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Mr.

Speaker, a point of order really­ unfortunate; it is unbelieva ble. Obviously the members opposite want everyone to hear their questions and want no one to hear the answers and the truth. If the Opposition is arguing that somehow the answer was provocative, it is only because they fe el provoked, they fe el sensitive on this issue. They are the ones that raised taxes again and again and again. Mr.

Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable Opposition House Leader, I would just like to remind all honourable ministers that according to Beauchesne's answers to questions should be brief and deal with the matter raised and to not provoke debate . I just throw that out to all the ministers. *** Mr. Speaker: The honourable Minis ter of Intergovernmental Affairs, to conclude her comments. Ms.

Friesen: I was merely trying to indicate to the Leader of the Opposition that there was some responsibility on his part to look at the issues that Manitoba is facing in taxation, and many of those are the ones that were introduced by the previous government. Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker, when you talk about responsibility, in the last Budget this Government for every $8 they spent they only cut $1 of tax reli ef, and that is a shame. I think that is a shame. While the Minister of Finance (Mr.

Selin ger) is meeting with other provincial ministers of Finance, I wondered if he might have an opportunity to pick up any tips, say, from the ministers of Finance from Saskatchewan or Ontario who are turning Manitoba into an island of high taxes unto itself What are this Government's plans to bring us into line with the rest of Canada? Ms. Friesen: I think the Leader of the Opposition must be unaware that in the last Budget we deli vered millions of dollars in personal income tax cuts to Manitobans. We also began to reverse the decades of neglect of the previous government in property taxes.

When they were in power, in the first years of the Tory government, they brought in a $15 0 tax increase to every Manitoban on the property tax. We have begun to reverse that in this last Budget, and we shall, according to our elec tion promises, be continuing with that. In addition, the numerous user fe es that this previous

19 4 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12 , 2000 government introduced we have begun to reverse as we, for exa mple, have removed the tax essentially that was on northern patient transfer. Budget Tax Reductions Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Will the Deputy Premier give Manitobans and this House a commitment that she will lower taxes in the upcoming Budget? * (13: 45) Hon. Jean Friesen (Deputy Premier): I think what we have here is either the Alliance Party is speaking or the Tory Party is speaking or the Ref orm Party is speaking. I am not sure who is asking this question.

I think what we also have is a previous government which is still particularly, what shall I say, smarting over the last election and their 50-50 plan for Manitobans. Manitobans el ected a government which is committed to restoring health care and we are doing that. They ele cted a government which was committed to making opportunity for young people through the expansion of post-secon dary educa tion enrolment and we are doing that. There are many ways to make Manitoba competitive. This Opposition has only one perspective, and the member will have to in fact wait for the Budget for those kinds of issues.

Public Housing Safety/Security Regulations Mr. Jack Reimer (Southdale): On December 11 , 19 97, new rules regard ing criminal and violen t related activity at Manitoba Housing residences were implemented, and I would like to just table those rules at this time. The rules were adopted after consultation with tenant associations and the Winnipeg police and were esta blished to ensure the health, safety and security of Manitoba Housing tenants and their families.

I would like to ask the Minister of Housing, in light of the recent tragedy involving the stabbing death of a man after an all-night drinking party which occurred in a Manitoba Housing complex, is the policy of zero tolerance regard ing violence still in ef fe ct for Manitoba Housing tenants? Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Family Services and Housing): The answer is yes. Mr. Reimer: If the answer is yes, then why are people still being put in violent positions where we read in the paper where they are put in positions where they do not fe el safe in Manitoba Housing?

I get phone calls from people saying that they are worried about the conditions in the Manitoba Housing. Can he table any type of correspondence that is in ef fe ct saying that these rules are still in ef fect? Mr. Sale: I think that the former minister and myself both take the issue of violence in family housing in Manitoba Housing extrem ely seriously. That is why I would ref erence the rules that were brought in under the previous government as sound. We have certai nly, during the time that I have been minister, removed people from our public housing units when they have broken and violated those rules.

That often results in protests to members opposite. I think at least on several occasions I am aware of those situations. Nevertheless those people have not been allowed to continue to put at risk the tenants who have a right to the same kind of peaceful living conditions that we all expect in the homes that we live in. When we receive a complaint, we act on it immediately. There is a process for giving people warning, as the previous minister knows.

We have to be cautious that we do not always simply move precipitously unless we have clear evidence, but where there is clear evidence of violence, clear evidence of any kind of immed iate threat, under my steward ship just as I believe under the previous government, this was acted upon in a very quick manner. Mr. Reimer: I thank the minister for the explanation in regard to the continuation of the policy because I believe the response I am getting back that it has not necessarily been in ef fe ct-

December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 195 Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable Government House Leader, on a point of order. Point of Order Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): I wonder if you could ask the honourable member if he came here with a supplem entary question. Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable Government House Leader, he does have a point of order. Beauchesne's Citation 409(2) advises that a supplem entary question should not require a prea mble. *** Mr. Speaker: I would ask the honourable member to please put his question. Mr. Reimer: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. I will start it then with a question. Can the minister also inform this House- there seems to be a continuous increase of gang activity in public housing-whether this problem has been addre ssed and whether they are working in any type of program with the police on gangs that are now occupying a lot of the tenants' residences within Manitoba Housing complexes, whether there have been further initiatives to try to quell gang activity in public housing? * (1 3:50) Mr.

Sale: If I may, just on the prev ious question, tell the member opposite that there were no complaints from that building in regard to violence during the month of December. The only previous complaint in recent months was another suite in another area, so not involving this person. So this is not a situation where there was any previous complaint about this particular person. In regard to the violence issue in regard to gangs, I am informed that in fact the opposite is true. We have removed a number of people who allegedly had gang activities or gang linkages in a couple of projects.

I will not name them for obvious reasons, but one of the ones that the former member was involved with in terms of a tenant-management initiative, it is one of those. We have had a substantial reduction in turnover. We have had a substantial reduction in the number of students who have moved from one school to another. We have had a substantial reduction in vacancy and in complaints, and that is a matter of co-operation among Child and Family Services, Housing, the community constable, the community school. I am very pleased with the progre ss that is being made in that particular building.

Aboriginal Child and Family Services Transition Plans Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): The devolution and transfer of services to Metis and Aboriginal Family Services is proceeding quickly. This is a sensitive and a matter for care of children, which is a very critical area, and a process that we support. I wonder if this minister is prepared to share any of his transition plans with the pu blic. Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Family Services and Housing): I am delig hted with that question, and I am del ighted to know that the Opposition shares support for this important initiative.

I am pleased to tell the member that over 200 Manitobans from all areas of our province who work in the Child and Family Services system and in allied systems are curren tly completing, under seven working groups, the initial planning process which will yield the grist for a combined implem enta tion plan that we hope will be laid bef ore the three partners, the Metis Fe dera tion, First Nations of Manitoba, north and south, and the Government of Manitoba in the spring. We expect that that will be a very detai led plan. I am very pleased with the amount of grass roots participation that there has been.

I am also very pleased that the current agenc ies, non-Aboriginal agenc ies, as well as the labour organizations have supported this initiative, and we will be working together with them to provide the continuity of service that I think is so important in this area. Mr. Cummings: The continuity of care is critical, and this process is supported by the current staff, but many of them are fe eling excluded, despite the fact that the minister says

196 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 that he has large numbers participating in his transition. Will he provide some assurance to the current staff as to what their future may be? Mr. Sale: I think that there are three very serious components of this initiative. The first is the care of children. First Nations and Metis people have for too long been unable to care for their children and families unless they were in a specific situation on reserve and in the case of the Metis people not at all.

The second concern is the ability of the new agencies and the expanded Aboriginal First Nations agencies to undertake this responsibility which means a process of finding the skilled people or training more people. This will be a job initiative that will ultimately provide well over 500 skilled, permanent, wel l-paying jobs to communities who badly need those jobs and who will become capable, I am sure, of using the resources associated with those jobs very well. Then, finally, but not least, and we are really thinking in a triangle here, Mr.

Spe aker, we have the existing staff who have served faithfully and crea tively in many cases the children and families of all of the province. They must have a fair treatment in this process as well. * (1 3:55) Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, very briefly, about 70 percent of the casel oad may well be transferr ed. What does this minister have in the future for some 300 of his current employees? Mr. Sale: I think the member has a copy of the memorandum which was signed as well as the protocol. If he does not, I would be glad to supply it to him.

In that, there is a commitment on the part of all the parties, all the signatories, to a labour force adjustment program which will be fair to all involved. The decisions and discussions in regard to that adjustment program have been underway for some time. I hope we will reach a conclusion fairly shortly. Health Care System Service Availability-Rural Manitoba Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): On November 16, Mr. Bill Russell of Melita suffered a severely cut thumb. The doctor in Melita tried to contact doctors in Brandon and was told to send him directly to Winnipeg.

With no one in Brandon being available to treat him, his neighbours then drove him all the way to Winnipeg to the Health Sciences Centre, but in the end part of the thumb still had to be amputated. Can the Minister of Health explain why a patient in Melita must trave l at least four hours to Winnipeg in order to obtain adequate treatment for a severely cut thumb? Hon.

Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): As has been the tradition in the past, I would appreciate if the member would forward to me the particular instances and the particular information regard ing that, and I will do a follow-up, as we always do and have always done in this Chamber with respect to particular issues concerning patient care. Mr. Maguire: Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Health, who promised he would fix health care in six months, explain why he is allowing this kind of highway medicine to be inflicted on rural Manitobans? Mr. Chomiak: Mr.

Speaker, as I indicated, I would appreciate if the member would forward the particulars of that to me. I might also add that we put more resources into emergency services in rural Manitoba this year than at any time in the past decade. When members opposite had the ability to make changes, they did not. In our first year of government we put more resources into emergency services in rural Manitoba than at any time over the past decade by members opposite. Mr.

Maguire: Then what assurance can the Minister of Health give these rural Manitobans, if he has provided all of these options and dollars to be put available to them, that they can be treated in or near their homes in their home communities when under his watch they have to travel this far to Winnipeg to get something as simple as a severely cut thumb treate d? Mr. Chomiak: As I said, I would appreciate if the member would forward the particulars so we can follow up on that with respect.

I might add that one of the issues we are looking at that I indicated in Estimates to members opposite was a central bed registry that was recommended I

December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 197 believe in 1994 to members opposite that would help co-ordinate in terms of activities. In addition, we are also going to be putting in place a call centre in Brandon that will co-ordinate emergency services across the province of Manitoba, something that had not been done bef ore. Mr. Speaker- Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable Member for Turtle Mountain, on a point of order. Point of Order Mr. Mervin Tweed (Turtle Mountain): Mr. Speaker, the question is very obvious.

The patient needed a doctor, not an ambulance service, and the question was why was he by­ passed through Brandon to go to Winnipeg for a service, to see a doctor. Mr. Speaker: The honourab le Minister of Health, on the same point of order. Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, as I indicated in my first, second and third responses, I would appre ciate the members providing particulars, because they have been so wrong on so many issues regard ing this matter that I need the particulars in order to determ ine. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Official Opposition House Leader, on the same point of order. * (1 4:00) Mr.

Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): On the same point of order, Mr. Speaker, I do not believe the honourable minister was speaking to the point of order. I do belie ve he was just comple ting his answer to the question. Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable Member for Turtle Mountain, he does not have a point of order. It is a dispute over the facts. *** Mr. Speaker: The honourable Min ister of Health, to conclude his comments. Mr. Chomiak: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have been working with local communities.

There have been some major expa nsions; there will be some expansions in the future . I am very pleased to announce that two years ago on today's date there were 39 people in the hallways, today there are none. Livestock Stewardship Initiative Report Release Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): A year ago this province had a flourishing construction industry in rural Manitoba. Last spring the Government announced the Lives tock Steward ship Initiative which has virtually brought the construction industry to a halt. The pane l's final report was supposed to be released this fall.

Could the Minister of Conserva tion explain why the report has not been released, and who is responsible for the delay? Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conservation): As far as I know, there is no delay in the report to come forth. The report has been finished. It is under review. As soon as the review is finished, we will announce our policies as to how we are going to implement the recommendations contained ther ein. Mr.

Jack Penner: Could the Minister of Conserva tion then tell us why the panel told rural Manitobans that they were supposed to have the report delivered to the minister by the end of October, and is this Government trying to influence the outcome of this report? Mr. Lathlin: As far as I understand, the report has been dela yed somewhat, but it is not due to anything that the Government has said or done. The Government has not ordered the report to be delayed. In fact the panel has requested more time to work on the report, and then it will be given to Governmen t in due course. Mr.

Jack Penner: I would like to then ask the Minister of Labour, in regard to the comments that she made in committee last year about instituting her labour regulations on farm labour and the farm industry, what kinds of discussions has she had with the panel, and is she trying to influence the panel's recommenda tions.

198 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 Bon. Becky Barrett (Minister of Labour): The information, as the Minister of Conser vation has said, will be forthcoming. It is important that the panel do its work, do its work thoroughly, do its work well, do its work properly and not be held to a particular timeline if the panel itself is not ready. When the information has come to the Government, all departm ents, all parts of Government that are involved in this situation and in this issue will review the panel's report and recommendations, and information then will be forthcoming.

Does the member want us to do something in a hurry or not do something like they spent II years not doing it? We are addre ssing the issue. Knapp Dam and Pump Station Information Tabling Request Bon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): My question to the Minister of Conservation is a follow-up to yesterday. The concrete for the Knapp Dam and Pump Station had rigorous specifi cations, the equivalent of 5000 pounds per square inch I belie ve, as well as thorough testing, to ensure the concrete's ability to withstand wet conditions.

Since there are rumours that some of the concrete tested may have fallen short of expectations and specifications, I would ask the minister today- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. It is very, very difficult to hear the question, and I would ask the co­ operation of all honourable members. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. It is very difficult to hear the honourable member's question. I would ask for the co-operation of all honourable members, please. Mr.

Gerrard: I would ask the minister whether he will table in this House the full results of all the testing so that the public will know for sure whether this dam meets the specifications that were laid out and whether it is safe. Bon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conservation): As I have repeate dly told the member in his previous questioning, yes, there was a problem encountered in the project, a very minor problem, a problem that can be easily fixed.

I also advised the member, I believe yester day or the day bef ore, that we are looking at the issue of whether it was as a result of a design deficiency or whatever it was. I have also promised the member in previous questioning, my responses to his previous questions, that if we find that there were some serious oversights on the part of the general contractor and the consultant, we will be taking appropriate action. Mr.

Gerrard: All I ask the minister is to table the full results of the testing so that the results can be open and transparent and we can know for sure the extent of this problem that the minister ref ers to. Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Speaker, I take this issue very seriously, and for that reas on I have advised our staff in The Pas that I will be touring the project this weekend when I am in The Pas because I want to get a first-hand look myself , know exactly what the problem is and how it is going to be rectified to ensure that we have a structure that is sound and safe. Mr.

Gerrard: The minister's question leads us to wonder about the problem, whether it is minor or severe. Would the minister tell us more about the problem so that the public can better understand what the circumstances are ? Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Speaker, I have already advised the member several times now that the problem that was encountered was a very minor one, one that is being fixed, and that the structure of the dam is not compromised. I do not know what else to tell him. Income Assistance Caseload Levels Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Mr.

Speaker, it is well known that under the previous government and under the watch of the MLA for River East (Mrs. Mitchelson), Manitoba had the highest level ever of social assistance cases, namely 46 652 cases in the fiscal year '93-94. I would like to ask-

December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 199 Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable Member for Burrows, please put your question. Mr. Martindale: I would like to ask the Minister of Family Services what has happened to caseload levels since we took of fice and why. * (14: 10) Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Family Services and Housing): Wei!, Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to advise the member and the House that since we took office 3050 people on general assistance have left caseload. That is a reduction of about 30 percent in a 13-month period, actually a 12- month period.

I think, in regard to the second part of his question, it is a combination of a strong economy where there are job opportunities, and I am pleased that under our Government our economy has actually streng thened its pe rformance. I think that is wonderf ul. As well, we strengthened the job centre, which was begun under the previous government, but we have streng thened it, added staff. We have also created Building Independence which has allowed people to move into the workforce with some supports. We have created the Career Action Pathing Centre for 150 high-risk people on long-term assistance.

We have built training programs for mothers on social assistance so they can become day-care providers. We are helping people to move across the bridges of opportunity into our economy. Minister of Conservation Meeting Requests Mr. Harry Enos (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, we are often told and hear from members opposite about what we did or did not do in the last 11 years. One of the things we did do, ministers of that government, was take advantage of when the municipal officials were gathered in convention, as they were just a little over a week ago, to make ourselves available to the concerns that they might have.

Understanda bly drainage was a No. 1 priority with municipal officials throughout Manitoba. Seven or eight, if not more, meetings were set up to have a meeting with the Minister of Conserva tion. Can he give us and this House and more importantly the municipal officials a reasonab le explanation of why he cance lled each and every one of them? Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conservation): thank the member for the question. I want to tell him that I take the issue of drainage challenges that we have in Manitoba very seriously.

I want to remind him that he was in of fice for 11 years and if he met with AMM people during those confer ences, I am sure from time to time they came to him outlining the problems they were having with regard to drainage in their communities. But what happened was the Budget was cut. There were staff positions that were cut. As a matter of fact, during Estimates last year the Member for Lakeside advised me that I had a very difficult job because his previous government had literally gutted the Department of Natural Resource s. Water Resources Drainage Application Processing Mr. Harry Enos (Lakeside): Mr.

Speaker, specifically the R.M. of Rosser, along with the $25 that is now required just to send an application in, did so in May. In September they asked about it. The department lost it, were asked to reapp ly. This is now eight months later. Is that a reasonable perf ormance on the part of his depa�tment, of this Governm ent? Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conservation): Mr. Speaker, again, I advise the Member for Lakeside that I take my job seriously and that the meetings that I have with representatives from AMM are taken seriously.

In fact, the other day I advised the Assembly that I have indeed gone out to the communities, toured the ditches that the member and his former government had neglected for 11 years. So I do not know where he gets the idea that am ignoring the people. Meetings are being scheduled almost on a daily basis with municipalities.

200 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 Mr. Enos: One final question, Mr. Speaker. Specifically, on behalf of the R.M. of Rosser whose cheque you cashed eight months ago, they have yet to hear from this minister, from this depart ment. When can they expect to hear from him? Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Speaker, I would like to advise the member again that I am doing my job to the best of my ability. I will not sit there forever ignoring the pleas made by the members of the AMM.

When I was in Brokenhead two weeks ago, I asked the people I was meeting with who their member of the Legisla tive Assembly was, and they told me who he was. I asked them did you ever lobby him, and they said every day. Water Resources Assiniboine River Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, the Assiniboine River is a major water course across the western side of this province and across the southern part of the province as well. As we speak, the demands for irrigation, the demands for drinking water, the demands for effluent management are all being increased on that river.

I would like to know what plans the Minister of Conser vation has for the future usage of the Assiniboine River. Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conservation): Mr. Speaker, yes, we have plans for the Assiniboine River. In fact, we have initiated a study that will look at the health of the Assiniboine River, look at what capacity it may have for the future .

I might also add that when I met with the Assiniboine River study board yesterday as a matter of fact, they informed me that the Clean Environment Commission had recommended to the previous government when the diversion discussions were being held that they do an assessment on the Assiniboine River. Apparentl y this previous government did not listen to that board and so nothing was done. So now we are doing a study. Assiniboine River Advisory Committee Meeting Request Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Conserva tion has chosen to ignore the work of the Assiniboine basin advisory board.

They have been trying to have meetings with him since he came into office. So if he wants some advice on what he can do with the future of the river, why does he not want to meet with people like Professor Tim Ball and those of the capacity of a Dr. Ian Dickson? Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conservation): Mr. Speaker, I should advise the member that ye sterday I met with Doctor Dickson in my office, and we discussed the history of that particular board, how he got going and all the valuable work that he had done.

I informed Doctor Dickson that I would continue to work with him and am very much interested in receiving the advice that he has to give. Assiniboine River Advisory Committee Report Recommendations Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, Mr. Dickson is available. The report is completed. When will he receive the report and get on with it? Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conservation): Yes, they gave me a copy of the report that was done last year, and we are reviewing it right now.

I advised Doctor Dickson yesterday that, because the Assiniboine River study had already been announced, initiated, he could probably serve in some useful capacity advising that particular group studying the Assiniboine River. * (14: 20) Assiniboine River Advisory Committee Meeting Request Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): The minister confuses us when he rises to give an answer to a question because I am afraid he does not understand what the real issues are here.

The Assiniboine Advisory Board was put into place to advise users and to advise Government with regard to the water levels, with regard to water safety, with regard to water availability on the Assiniboine River. Members of council, along with the board, have asked repea tedly why the minister does not meet with this board.

December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 20 1 I want to ask the minister what the status of this board is and whether or not he will acknowledge to meet with them to receive their advice to assure Manitobans that the availability of water on the Assiniboine River is safe and is adequate . Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conservation): My plans are to meet again with Doctor Dickson and some of his colleagues in the near future to discuss how they could fit into the study that was announced for the Assiniboine River. So future meetings are being planned. Mr.

Speaker: The time for Oral Questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Helen Betty Osborne Foundation Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Last night I was privileged to attend the committee meeting regard ing Bill 5, The Helen Betty Osborne Foundation Act. With this legislation, the current Manitoba governm ent, Mr. Speaker, has formally acknowledged the miscarriage of justice in the Helen Betty Osborne case. Last night Helen Betty's mother, Justine Osborne, and her sister Cecilia spoke eloquently to the committee of the wave of grief , pain and sorrow that swept over the family after Helen Betty's murder.

That tragic and senseless murder on November 13, 1971, shocked all of us as Canadians and as Manitobans. Now, nearly three decades later, finally, there is a sense of justice for the family. Helen Betty Osborne of Norway House had a dream . Her dream was to become a teacher. That dream was shattered by a brutal abduction and murder characterized by sexism and racism. However, the foundation will now make it possible to expand Helen Betty's dream by enabling many young Aboriginal people to become teachers.

All of us owe a great debt of thanks to Judges Murray Sinclair and Alvin Hamilton who, through the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry report, spotlighted the flawed investigation and court case after Helen Betty's murder. Over the past five years, a concentrated campaign for justice has led to the establishment of the foundation. Some of the people who led that fight include former Grand Chief Phil Fontaine, Norway House Chief Ron Evans, former MKO Grand Chief George Muswaggon and Freda Albert of the Norway House Women's Wellness Circle. As well, I commend the current Minister of Justice (Mr.

Mackintosh) for bringing some justice to a landmark case that has so tarnished the reputation of this province. Finally, all of us should commend the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr. Robinson) who has never wavered and who has worked incredibly hard for attempting to esta blish a justice system that really does meet the needs of Aboriginal people. As well, that minister played a pivotal role in the healing journey of the Osborne family, and I thank him on behalf of all of us. Fort Garry Mall Walking Program Mrs.

Joy Smith (Fort Garry): I am pleased to rise in the House today to commend the many volunteers who work so diligently in assisting with the Fort Garry mall walking program. This program was started to respond to a concern among seniors about being housebound during the winter months. The Fort Garry mall walking program arranges for transportation between the participant's own place of residence and the St. Vital mall. By providing seniors with an opportunity to get involved in the community all year round, they are also able to regain their independence and build and maintain valuable friendships.

I would also like to take this opportunity to thank several individuals who have been instrumental to the success of this program. Bill and B. J. Langden from King Transportation, as well as Flo Proulx have secured three buses for the mall walk program. Jo-Ann Jeanson from the St. Vital mall has been very helpful in keeping everything organized once participants arrive. Other volunteers, such as Joan Stainer and Lillian Puhach have also donated much of their time to this worthy cause. Finally, Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate everyone who has volunteered his or her time to the Fort Garry mall walk.

I believe that the success of this program should serve as

202 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 an example to all Manitoba communities of what a big difference we can make to improve the quality of life for the seniors in our neighbourh oods. St. James Senior Centre Mr. Jim Rondeau (Assiniboia): I rise today to highlight some initiatives of the St. James Senior Centre. This centre services seniors in the ridings of Assiniboia, St. James and Kirkfield Park. These constituencies have very high concent rations of seniors, which is expected to increase over the next few years.

I understand that the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority is currently underta king a needs assessment to integrate health promotion and prevention into the senior centre. As the centre is very well utilized in terms of social and recrea tional activities, including the Tae K won Do with Jane, who I prev iously talked about, and an expanding collection of athletic machines and activities, I think this initiative will integrate well into the senior centre and its activities. Another example of this initiative is the flu and pneumonia immunization shots offered in 1999. In 1999, actually, 680 people took the shot.

This year, well over I 000 people got immunizations. Under the previous government the number was zero. It is using prevention instea d of acting after the fact. Laurie Green, the primary health care nurse on site, saw over 300 clien ts last month working on issues like blood pressure, diabetes and other health concerns. I would like to commend the regional health authority, St. James Senior Centre, the senior staff, who help do preventive health care and prevention in a good community integrated philosophy for health care . Thank you very much for a job well done. Tuxedo Constituency Seniors Residences Mrs.

Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Yester day and today I had the opportunity to visit several seniors homes in my constituency, and there are a fe w people that I would like to thank for welcoming me to visit their facilities. I would like to thank Mike Gagnon and Bob Sharpe of Hendon Apartments. I would like to thank Ken Reimche from West Park Manor, Melba Allen from Eastern Star Chalet, Verdie Peters, the marketing representative for The Welli ngton.

I would like to thank Maichaela Ingleson from Columbus Courts, Larry Todd from Extendicare Tuxedo Villa and Terry MacKay from the Canadian Order of Foresters, Haven No. 2. I would also like to thank Heather Mutcheson, Linda Macintosh and Krista Ruston from the new Portsmouth Retirement Residence. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank all of the residents of the homes for coming out and having coffe e with me this morning. We had some excellent and very interesting conversati ons. Thank you very much. Bethesda Foundation Mr. Jim Penner (Steinbach): Mr.

Speaker, it is a plea sure to rise today to inform the House about an organization in my constituency which is dedicated to the health and well-being of the residents of Manitoba. On September 21 of this year the Bethesda Foundation celeb rated the 20th year of its establishment.

The goal of the Bethesda Foundation at its inception was to raise a quarter -million dollars over I 0 years, which would be the foundation of an account from which 75 percent of the interest would be used to help fund capital purchases at Stein bach's Bethesda Hospital and personal care home. * (1 4:30) Like many other initiatives in my constituency, Mr. Speaker, the initial goal was greatly surpassed and over the past 20 years the foundation has raised in excess of $2 million with approximately 90 percent of the interest generated being returned to the community and to the health district.

There have been a great many people who have contributed to the ongoing success and development of the Bethesda Foundation, too many to mention in the time I am permitted, but allow me to make special mention of Mr. P. J. Reimer who was the first chairman of the

December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 203 foundation and former hospital administrator Peter Pauls. These gentlemen, along with other founders, have directly and indirectly touched the lives of thousands of residents in my area. Their vision has helped to provide comfort to many in their grea test hours of need. Of course, I must thank the many resi dents who sustained and grew the foundation over the years through their generous contributions. Without the generosity of the residents of the region, the success of the foundation would not have been possible. Mr.

Speaker, I am sure all members of the Assembly join me when I of fe r congratulations to the Bethesda Foundation on its 20th anniversary year and wish them many years of continued success. ORDERS OF THE DAY THRONE SPEECH DEBATE (Fifth Day of Debate) Mr. Speaker: Adjourned debate on the proposed motion of the honourable Member for Dauphin-Roblin (Mr. Struthers) and the proposed motion of the Honourable Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Murray) in amendment thereto, standing in the name of the honourable Min ister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (Mr. Lemieux), who has 13 minutes remaining. Hon.

Ron Lemieux (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): It is a plea sure to continue my remarks with regard to the Throne Speech. I will attempt to be brief. I know there are many other speakers who wish to have some input into the Throne Speech, and so I will try to summarize my remarks of yesterday and conclude them within the next fe w minutes. I would just like to say one important remark that was made by many members in the House is the large numbers of Manitobans, young and old, that left this province over the last number of years. Certainly what we would like to do is welcome them back with open ar ms.

I really think that we are finding many, many companies and many more Manitobans who left the province are seeing the initiatives that are being put forward as we have in this Throne Speech, to welcome back many, many Manitobans who had to leave to find employ­ ment else where. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased and it certai nly is a plea sure indeed to be able to say that Manitoba is vibrant and it is well once again and as Manitobans we should be extr emely proud to welcome these Manitobans who had to leave the province for various rea sons. We are pleased, again I would say, to welcome them back with open arms.

Manitoba has the best soil, the best water anywhere in North America, and yes, I might even say the best government as well in North America. What I would like to say is that with all of these advantages that we have in Manitoba there is no reason why we, as all Manitobans, cannot put our time and energy and all of our initiatives together to truly have one of the best provinces in all of this land. I know that in days to come, Mr. Speaker, we are going to be seeing a lot of those initiatives that this Government plans on putting forward. I know that the Minister of Industry, Trade and Mines (Ms.

Mihychuk) has met with numerous, numerous companies and diffe rent organizations that wished to come home and wished to come back to Manitoba and wished to invest in Manitoba, because they realized the workforce that we have here and the climate for very, very succes sful businesses and companies is welcomin g them. Now, Mr.

Speaker, cert ainly during the last session there were a number of comments made by members opposite with regard to changes that we were making in legisla tion, but it does not take much to look across the border eastward to Ontario to see that they are looking at a 60-hour workweek and really having a detrimental eff ect, I believe, not only on the workers of Ontario but certai nly on many initiatives with regard to companies wanting to start there. Mr. Harry Schellenberg, Acting Speaker, in the Chair We have one of the most stable workf orces in all of Canada, and we certainly have some of

204 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 the most hardworking Canadians anywhere in this country. I believe this is, to a degree, why our economy is booming and thriving. I just want to commen t, as I stated bef ore, just briefly to summarize my comments by saying that the Throne Speech that was brought forward once again shows balance. I think what Manitobans are looking for in their government is certain ly not a government that veers one way or another because of the sign of dark clouds on the horizon for whatever reason.

They expect the Government to be balanced, and they expect the Government to take a look at all options and be consultative and certa inly have that type of approach. I beli eve that this Government has, and you will soon see through the initiatives that we are going to be putting forward-and many of the initiatives have been announced in the Throne Spee ch-that this will certa inly come to fruition. Now, I just want to say, in closing, that this Government does have a vision.

The vision has been put forward not only with the five commitments we made in the last el ection, but we have carried that over through the Throne Speech of the first year of our mandate, and now with the number of different items that have been listed within this Throne Speech, Mr.

Acting Speaker, there truly is a vision there, a vision to make Manitoba more prosperous, a vision that is inclusive to include all Manitobans, whether they be from Emerson, Manitoba, Russell, Manitoba, Shoal Lake, Grand Rapids, Churchill, The Pas, Thompson. [interjection] Including Brandon in that, as well, as the Member for Brandon East suggested. We are going to be inclusive to make sure that all Manitobans are going to benefit from the wealth of this province. Mr. Acting Speaker, I am going to conclude my remarks on that. Thank you. Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr.

Acting Spea ker, prior to commencing my comments on the Throne Speech and the amendment, I would like to take this opportunity to offer my condolences. I know there have been a number of members in this House who have lost loved ones since we last sat in August, in particular the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs (Ms. Friesen) and the Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk), as well as the Member for Portage Ia Prairie (Mr. Faurschou), and quite likely there have been othe rs. Our family, too, suffered almost a year ago the loss of a loved one, and I know what difficult times it brings for them.

So I just want to let them know that in these difficult times and in their time of grieving that all members of the House are thinking of them and praying for them and wishing them well. Mr. Acting Speaker, I would also like to take this opportunity to congratulate and welcome our new pages. They serve a very useful role in this Chamber, in particular seeing that we have the odd sip of water at our desk when we are speaking. It is a more important role than that, but that is certain ly one of the very valuable services that we call upon the pages for.

I would like to congratulate them for · being chosen and wish them well in their tenure here. I hope they find it to be an en joyable and educational experience. I would also like to take this opportunity to congratulate and welcome new members to this Legisla tive Assembly, particularly the Member for Tuxedo (Mrs. Stef anson). We have the pleasure of sitting in the same row. I would also like to congratulate the new MLA for Kirkfield Park, the new Leader of the Opposition party.

It is encouraging for us in this House to see other citizens willing to stand up and to step forward and put their other lives on hold to serve the people of Manitoba in this capacity. I not only congratulate them for their win, I congratulate the other candidates who had the courage to stand up and be recognized in the last two by­ elec tions. Having come from a household where both of my parents ran unsuccessf ully, I can assure yourself and the House that we were taught to respect the process and not just congratulate the winners.

In that respect, I guess I should also offe r my congratulations to the New Dem ocratic Party who although they may be saddened by the fact that they ended up in third place in both elec tions we should note that in at lea st one of those by-el ections they were able to get their deposi t back. Given the lack of leadership they

December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 205 those by-elections at least they were able to get their deposit back. * (14:40) I would now like to tum my attention to the Throne Speech and to the amendment that has been put forward. I must say as I sat here for the second time in my short tenure as an MLA listening to the Throne Speech, it was very difficult to remain silen t. Out of respect though, I did. It was very difficult to sit still, so I found myself taking some rather copious notes, even though I knew at the time that I would soon be receiving a copy of the speech.

It was very frustrating to sit here and listen to a speech that I believe not only demons trated to the people of Manitoba that this Government does not have a vision from which to build on but in fact, even worse, they have no plan.

It is one thing not to have a vision for where they want to take the province but it is I think a real disse rvice to the people of Manitoba to come bef ore this Legisla ture with a Throne Speech that presents no plan, presents no ideas for the people of Manitoba on what this Government intends to do to improve their lot or to set a direction that in fact will carry this province forward for the next three years, not even to mention the fact that they talked about the year 2020, and just because they did does not mean they have any idea on how they are going to get there.

Just for their edi fication, a vision can be defined and is defined as inte lligent foresight. I must say in rea ding this Speech from the Throne that it is totally void of intell igent fore sight. I think that is a mistreatm ent of the people of Manitoba. After reading it in more detail, I could not help but be drawn back to the first Throne Speech that this Government deli vered a little over a year ago. In retro spect the significant fe atures of the first Throne Speech were not what was in the Throne Speech but what was left out of the Throne Speech. Again that is what we have here in their second go-around.

The original Throne Speech of this Government a year ago fe ll short on the same issues. There was no vision, there was no plan. There was a bunch of proposals which would be followed up by ad hoc announcements. There were words to one ef fect, actions to the other ef fect. Unfortunately for Manitobans, when they elected this Government they ele cted a government that is more interested in managing spin, more interested in tomorrow's press release than they are in actually providing good government to the citizens of this wond erf ul province.

That has been obvious from their very first day of governing, from their very first Throne Speech. When they started to talk about a deficit and they used Del oitte and Touche, and they used them I think in the worst of possible ways by maligning their name by claiming that they had been hired to do an audit.

If they look back to their first Throne Speech, I mean I just cannot believe that in that Throne Speech they actually decla red that, and I quote: "The prelimina ry report of the independent audit into the Province's finances," and at that time they knew full well, and in fact Del oitte and Touche state d publicly that they were never hired to conduct an audit. So here we have a government from day one that has been attempting to manage spin, attempting to create stories as opposed to governing for the people of Manitoba.

I would remind the members opposite that that was followed shortly by a minister leaking a document. In fact, it might have been a fe w days earlier that the minister announced to her horror that there were over a hundred pieces of artwork missing from this building. Of course, when the actual homework was done, when the staff did their job and tracked down the pieces of art, there were fe wer than two. Did we receive an apology from that minister? No. What we received from that minister was very hollow in its nature and I think once again speaks of what this Government is all about.

I think that is disappointing. When I read this Throne Speech I am overw helmed by the fact that it is more notable for what is not there than for what is there. I think that was magnified and has been magnified by the words of the various members opposite who have stood up diligently, as is required by their party, to try and defend this documen t which contains so little about hope and

206 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12 , 2000 opportunity for future genera tions of this province. What this Government should have been talking about in terms of their Throne Speech was . a commitment to Manitoba to keep this provmce competitive, competitive on all levels so that our best and our brightest would find re �ons to want to stay in this province, to make thetr homes here, to continue to build their careers here on opportunities. Instead, this Government in this Throne Speech lays out more misinformation for the people of Manitoba. This Government talks about cutting taxes.

What this Government does is raise taxes. Again, the two do not meet. � his Gov� rnment committed during its electt ?n campatgn to continue through with the promtse to reduce the corporate provincial tax rate f� om 48.5 percent to 47 percent. They c� mmttted to that. Instead of following through wtth that, their Minister of Finance (Mr. Seli nger) in his very first Budget chose to delink taxes. The reason he did that, I purport, is to ensure that the revenue to the Province of Manitoba was not affected by cuts in the fe deral tax reg ime.

He made a conscious decision, based on delinking and based on setting the rates where he set them, not to pass the full benefit of the fe deral tax reductions through to the people of Manitoba. At the same time, he had the nerve to stand in this House and outside this House and pat himself on the back for cutting taxes when in fact-and we demonst rated this clearly in Estimates- this provincial Finance Minister actually raised taxes.

To further that, in this Throne Speech there is absolutely no indication that this Government is willing to follow in the footsteps of the fe deral government who once again have announced that as of January 1 personal income tax rates for all levels will decrease and there will be tax relief for all citizens of this country. What do we have instead? Instead, we have from this Government a determination to keep the provincial income tax rates high, higher than they would have been had he chosen not to delink and had he left the provincial tax rate at 47 percent, and what is the result?

The result is going to be fe lt by people all across this province, particularly the young who are making choices on where they are going to build their careers , where they are going to build their future in this great country. This Finance Minister (Mr. Selin ger), single-handedly, has removed any incentive that these people would have to start building their careers in Manitoba.

What this Finance Minister has done is he has ensured that any single individual who earns $25 ,000 or more is paying more personal income tax on a provincial level as a result of his Budget than they would have had he done nothing-any individual earning $25,000 or more. Now $25,000 is not very much money, in particular whe ? you look at the starting wage of people commg out of university, people coming out of technical school, people who have invested significantly in their own training. They are paying the highest income taxes in the country. *( 14 :50) The Finance Minister (Mr.

Selin ger) repeated ly has stated and he tries to def end his Budget by telling us how he has increased the child tax benefit, and to his credit, he has. That in itself is a noble venture and if all else had remained the same and he had left the income tax rates at 4 7 percent, I would be here today congratulating him instead of denouncing him.

Bec ause what he has done by setting his tax rates, what this Government has done, what the Minister of Finance has done is ensured that any !ndividual in any family of four with a single mcome earner that earns $60,000 or more is going to pay over $300 more this year in provincial income tax than if this Finance Minister had done nothing. That is a significant number, so in spite of his claim to have increased child benefits, that typical family of four with two children is paying more tax as a result of his Budget.

In fact, not only is a family earning $60,000 paying more, any family with a single income earner that has two children that earns $45,000 or more is paying more tax. Now that should be of significant interest to all the members opposite, the backbenchers as well as the ministers who are affected even more than members who are not in Cabinet in terms of the amount of extra income tax, provincial income tax, that they will be paying this year as

December 12 , 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 207 opposed to had the Finance Minister done nothing. It is not only that he has raised taxes, it is the direction that he is taking us in. So, instead of talking in this Throne Speech about a commitment to Manitobans to keep this province competitive, Mr. Acting Speaker, a commitment to young Manitobans that they can build a career in this great province in Manitoba and not be penalized, he is saying exactly the opposite. He is saying build your career here, and we are going to make sure that you live in the highest tax regime in all of Canada.

Well, that just does not work. I have heard countless members opposite stand up and try and take credit for what is going on in this province. We do have a strong economy. We have a very strong economy. The reason we have a strong economy is because we had 11 years of consistent good government that managed its finances. We have lost that in one fell swoop. So while this economy will not tum overnight, while the strength of the U.S. economy and the discrepancy in the Canadian and the U.S. dollar are the primary drivers of this economy, that will not last forever. We are starting to see a downturn in the U.

S. economy which will be felt by a multiplier ef f ect in Canada, and the result, I am afraid, will be bad news for Manitobans. Beca use when this economy turns, and it will tum because it always turns, the effect is going to be felt most severely in those jurisdictions which are the least competitive. What this Finance Minister has done in the last Throne Speech and what he has assured in this Throne Speech is that Manitoba will be one of the least competitive jurisdictions in all of North America. I think that is a sad state of affairs for the province and for the people that live in this great province.

It was with interest that I looked at the first quarter results that were published by this Government going through until June 2000 and interested in a disappointed way because I noticed then that in the first quarter of this year this Government has increased operating expenses to the tune of $1 53. 7 million. That is in three months; compared to the first three months of 19 99, operating expenses have gone up $15 3 million. I would ask the members opposite: Do the math.

What that is going to translate into and what we will see by the end of the year is program expenditures that have risen by over $600 million, which is roughly 10 percent of our budget. So in one year they have managed to increase expenditures by 10 percent. I think this Government ought to be ashamed for that. They have built in program spending will y-nilly, without a plan, without any foresight. They simply wanted to dish it out as fast as it came in.

Instead of offering the people of this province a reward for their hard work, instead of following sound economic principles which, as anyone who has taken Economics 10 0, and I would hope there are some members opposite who have, would understand that in good times, in times of economic growth and times of success, that is the time when Government should be rewarding the hard work of its citizens by reducing their taxes, by reducing the Government's dependence on their money because, when the economy turns and the revenue tap starts to flow, this Government will have no option but to head back to the land of deficits, the land which they are very familiar with, because that is the land, and that is the time from which they come.

I would encourage members opposite to, at their next caucus meeting or at their next Cabinet meeting, and judging by the questions we see from the House from their backbenchers­ they may not have caucus meetings. I do not know. They do not seem to be able to get their questions answered there, so they have to bring them here and misuse the time of the House for that. But perhaps, during one of those caucus meetings or one of those Cabinet meetings, they could talk to their colleagues and figure out if their Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), if their Premier (Mr.

Doer), and if their Cabinet colleagues actually understand the economics of this province and actually have a plan to keep this province competitive. If they do, maybe they can encourage them to share it with the citizens of this province and to be willing to take feedback from the citizens of this province in the hope, over the course of the next two or three years, they can get it right.

208 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12 , 2000 I would like to remind this Government that they were not put in office, nowhere do they have a mandate from the people of Manitoba, to spend all the money they can get their hands on. They found that out very, very clearly in their dealing with the province's Crown corporations. They did it well. Quite frankly, the Member for Assiniboia (Mr. Rondeau), the Member for Dauphin-Roblin (Mr. Struthers) want to talk to me about Crown corporations. Well, here are some facts that they should be aware of.

Maybe they should work this in because, if they looked at the facts, if they did the numbers, they would understand what sound management of a Crown corporation is, in particular the Member for Dauphin-Roblin, when his address to move the Throne Speech went on rather at length about Crown corporations and the difference in vision that the old New Democrats across the way have from the Progressive Conservative Party in terms of dealing with Crown corporations. There are very, very significant differences.

The biggest difference, and the biggest difference that has been shown to the people of Manitoba, is that the Conservative government has the will, has the strength of character to see that Crown corporations are run on a sound basis, on a sound footing. One only has to look at the financial results of Manitoba Hydro. Manitoba Hydro, in the years 19 81 to 19 89, when you combine all those years under the governance of the NDP, the total income for all of those I 0 years was just over $50 million.

In that time, they included years when they lost $26 milli on, they lost $18 million, they lost $24 million, they lost $16 million. This is money that the people of Manitoba have invested. This Government, through its mismanagement of Crown corporations takes no responsibility and just throws it away. When you compare it to the sound management that the Conservative government brought to Crown corporations, when you look at the profits of Manitoba Hydro for the same period of time in the 19 90s, the profit for Manitoba was $573 milli on. That is what the people of Manitoba benefited from.

They benefited from a government that oversaw the sound fiscal management of its Crown corporations. * (15 :00) What happens when one examines the figures of the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation, the very corporation that this Government just got its hands slapped for trying to dip into? When you look at the record there between 19 81 and 19 88, that corporation cost the people of Manitoba close to $70 milli on in losses thanks to the financial mismanagement of the New Democratic Party. When you look at it under the governance of the Conservative Party what do you see?

You see a corporation that was turned around. You see a corporation whose net earnings over that period were $87 mil lion. Once again, you have a difference of over $15 0 million. That is the way Conservative governments manage the assets the people of Manitoba trust them with.

They are not like this New Democratic Party who thinks that any Crown corporation is there simply for the convenience of their Government, to dip into and to strip a Crown corporation of half of its equity, half of its equity, at their will, just because they have instilled a chairwoman who has ties to one of the universities and that is where they want to instruct her to make a donation. Even when they are caught, do they come forward and say, well, gee, we made a mistake.

Maybe we should not have done that, maybe we should have consulted with the ratepayers before we just reached into the assets of the Crown corporation and decided to give them away. They try and spin the issue. They say, oh, no, no, it was not us. That is just something that the board decided to do and they did not tell us. Then all of a sudden, lo and behold, what do you know, the senior officer of the organization has to stand up and say hold it, government came to us, asked us if we could do it.

We looked at it under the instruction of our board and told them if that is what they wanted us to do that in fact we could do it and we could survive. We could not provide Manitobans with our mandate, which is to pr ovide the lowest cost insurance, but we could provide this government with $30 million to dump into their general revenue and use in that.

December 12 , 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 209 So, yes, there is a difference in philosophy between this side of the House and that side of the House when it comes to managing Crown corporations and managing government spending. If you ask the people of Manitoba, they will tell you clearly that their preference is for sound fiscal management of all of their assets, not only the tax dollars that they contribute to help this Government do the jobs that are necessary, but also in the management of their Crown corporations.

No mention in the Throne Speech of tax competitiveness, no mention of sound fiscal management. This Government has continued to carry on its old tradition of spending every penny that they can get their hands on. I will concede to the members opposite, to the Government, that there are some worthwhile proposals in this Throne Speech. There are some things that are worth doing. There is no doubt about that. But again the difference in philosophy is how we approach those things.

As we have seen from this Government in their Budget and what I am fearful of and what the people of Manitoba should be very cautious about is the fact that the members opposite, the members in Cabinet and the members in the back bench, actually believe that the way to help people is to create more bureaucracy, to create more agencies which duplicate services, to create more bureaucratic jobs in an effort to try and help the people.

Well, I would suggest to this Government and to the ministers that what they should be doing is focussing their efforts on getting things done, focussing their efforts on setting their priorities, on developing plans that will help them move those priorities along, and by actually getting out there and doing something. That is a far cry from what I see in this Throne Speech. I think again there are so many ways that that is demonstrated, where the inaction of this Government does not live up to the words that we see in this Throne Speech or the words that we have seen in the last Throne Speech.

This Throne Speech contradicts itself in many, many ways. The Throne Speech talks about sustainable growth. It does not talk about competitiveness. You cannot have one without the other. This Throne Speech talks about sustainable development. On the same hand, the Minister of Conservation (Mr. Lathlin), instead of living up to the laws of sustainable development, breaks the laws, breaks the laws regularly. We saw that in the last sitting of this House. He did not live up to The Sustainable Development Act, and he single-handedly eliminated the Manitoba Environment Council.

So how do we talk about sustainable development, about sustainable economic growth when this Government is playing fast and loose with the laws, and just because it is inconvenient to them, they will decide to dismiss any watchdog agency that has been set up to hold them accountable and any other agency that decides not to terminate, they just say, well, hey, we are not going to bother meeting with them? We do not have to listen to them. Mr. Acting Speaker, the lack of attention to following up the words in the Throne Speech with action I believe is absolutely deplorable.

Another contradiction in this Throne Speech is this Government's attempt to take credit for everything good that has happened in this province in the last 10 or 11 years. You know, I mean the Minister of Health (Mr. Chomiak), the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (Mr. Lemieux), I was a little afraid they were going to hurt their arms as they desperately tried to pat themselves on the back for initiatives that had started well before their time in office, initiatives that were undertaken when they were in Opposition and when they were taking on their role of complainers, for which they are so well-suited.

I think nothing demonstrates this more than two particular areas in this Throne Speech, one, which was not identified, which is health care. The Minister of Health admitted, and he has admitted over the course of the last year, that when he inherited the portfolio, 85 percent of what was happening was right and things were moving in the right direction, but in this House, will this minister admit that? No. He will stand up and try and preserve the myth that programs had been underfunded and not been tackled

210 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12 , 2000 when in fact he knows full well that this Government's decision to expand the long-term care homes in the province of Manitoba has had more to do with relieving some of the stress on the hospitals in this province than anything this Government has done or not done in the last 14 months. Again, this Throne Speech talks about access to capital and how important that is. It is important, but what does this Government trot out to the public in terms of access to capital? They trot out programs that had been in place for three or four years.

They trot out Keystone Technologies, which is a wonder ful program. I would only remind this Government that a year bef ore I became an MLA, I was looking at investing in Keystone Tech nologies. Now the last I heard this Government was not in place to start Keystone Technologies, but boy, do they want to take the credit now. The same thing with Kraus Industries. An Honourable Member: Who put the money in? Mr. Loewen: Well, the Minister of Industry and Mines wants to tell us who put the money in.

Well, the minister signed a paper on a program that was so far down the road that she had no choice anyway, and you know what? She could have cance lled it. She could have can celled it, I guess, but the money was budgeted. The money was already in the program. She just followed through with an initiative. So if she wants to stand up in this House and take credit for following through with an initiative that was started by the previous government, that is all fair.

That is all fair and well, but for this Government to try and stand up and take credit for program after program after program which was initiated under the previous government, I think the people of Manitoba will see through that and will come to understand quite cle arly in the next election that, in fact, the programs that have been successful are the programs that were initiated by the Conser vative government, followed through by the NDP government, and the programs that are unsuccessf ul are going to prove to be the ones that this Government has tried to introduce on their own.

I do not think there is any doubt about that. * (15 :1 0) This Throne Speech talks about e­ commerce, talks about a bill that this House passed, that this government presented, and that, Mr. Acting Speaker, is a fallacy in members' opposite thinking. They think that by introducing a bill, a bill that real ly does not do much at the end of the day in this Legisla ture, that they have made some giant leaps forward, some giant strides in terms of helping the economic situation in Manitoba. Well, this Government is way behind the ball when it comes to that.

You do not drive e-commerce by passing a bill in this Legis lature . You drive e-commerce by setting an environment, by creating a tax structure, by setting up incentives that make people want to start and build their businesses here. [interjection} The Member for Dauphin­ Roblin (Mr. Struthers) says and, and, and. If the Member for Dauphin-Roblin had any solutions to this, I hope he would have identified them in his speech in moving the Throne Speech.

He does not, so I will give him a clue, and maybe he can take this-we ll, he cannot take it to the Cabinet table, but if the caucus ever meets, maybe he will be able to take it there. Maybe one day he will be able to take it to the Cabinet table, I do not know. Hopef ully, for his sake he will. I do not know if I would hope for the people of Manitoba that he will, but, anyway, hopefully one day he will, for his sake. What business needs in Manitoba is hope, opportunity and a contract. So if this Government wants to look at ways of promoting e-commerce in Manitoba, they should look to their own departm ents.

They should look to their own staff. They should look around this province and find businesses, find business people who have the strength and the vision to set up their own shop, and look for opportunities when they can give a contract to a Manitoba business, because if we are going to build Manitoba, if we are going to continue to build on this strong economy, we are going to need more businesses. We are going to need more home­ grown businesses that are given an opportunity to succeed.

December 12 , 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 21 1 It is risky. It is not always the safe way. It is not always the easy way. Sometimes it requires a leap of faith to give a contract to a new start-up company, but that is what business thrives on. Business does not thrive on legislation being passed. Legislation in this House virtually 99 percent of the time only hurts business. It does not help business. We saw that in spades in Bill 44. Does this Government, do these members actually think they helped the economy of the province of Manitoba with their introduction through the back door of Bill 44?

Well, the answer is no. An Honourable Member: You do not want any government? Mr. Loewen: Well, quite frankly, no government would be a lot better than the Government we are getting. But I would encourage this Government and the members opposite to do what they can do around their caucus, around their Cabinet table, to ensure that those entrepreneurs in this province that have the strength and have the brains and have the determination to start business in this province are rewarded as much as possible by the Government of Manitoba. {interjection] You know what? The member for Flin Flon (Mr.

Jennissen) wants to tell me that I should be more concerned about the working people than about business people. Well, I can assure the members opposite that by being concerned about the economy, by being concerned about the success and the ability for business to grow and thrive in this province, that that is doing more for the working people in this province than any bill, and, in particular, what that very damaging Bill 44 has done for the working people of Manitoba.

That bill that took away their right to vote, that took away their right to settle and that took away the atmosphere that had been created over the last 11 years that Manitoba was open for business, one piece of legislation. That took that away from all of those groups, and this Government should be embarrassed about it, they should be ashamed about it and they should repeal it as quickly as possible, before they do irreparable harm. We sit here in this House and we talk amongst each other and we debate issues. What sometimes we miss is the feedback from the outside world.

I can assure that members opposite, the Cabinet members and the backbenchers-[interjection] The businesses in Toronto, businesses in Alberta, businesses across this country were looking at opportunities in Manitoba. When Bill 44 was passed they stopped looking. They said why would we go to Manitoba with regressive labour laws. There may be the odd one that would come because of our electrical advantage, but by and large the vast majority of businesses will fly over. They will not look at Manitoba whatsoever, and that is what their Government has done.

I am coming close to the end of my comments on this bill because quite frankly there is not much in it to comment on. There is no hope. There is no vision. This is a government that for years and years complained about inactivity in the inner-city, about the fact that the inner-city was crumbling. They were not far wrong in terms of what was actually going on there, but where they are way off is their solution. It is obvious from this Throne Speech that they have no solutions for the inner city.

This is a Throne Speech that talks about fair treatment on the one hand and then goes on to expand that by simply talking about the North. No talk about the fair treatment of the people in southeast Manitoba, no talk about the treatment of the farmers in southwest Manitoba, both struck by natural disasters, completely ignored. Quite frankly there is no substance in this speech, but there is one area that I have hope for, and this is again a matter that affects me personally. I am looking forward. I hope that this Government on one hand advances with its promised white paper on mental health.

It is something that is badly needed in this province. There are services that are out of line. There are people who need assistance and this Government needs to step up to the plate and act. I would hope that they do. I would hope they would act a lot quicker on that than they would on trying to erect five new casinos in this province. I would hope they would go there. In closing, I am very disappointed in this Throne Speech. I am very disappointed in what

212 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 is not said and I would urge all members of this Government to do what they can do to actually try and get things moving, to try and create something that is going to help people in the inner-city, to actually create some hope and opportunity, but most of all to ensure that the economic situation in Manitoba is competitive so that this province can continue to move ahead. Thank you. Bon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education and Training): I would like to thank my colleagues for the enthusiastic applause as I rise to speak.

It is a pleasure to be in the House today to share some of my thoughts as the Member for Brandon East and as the Minister of Education for the Doer government on the Speech from the Throne which was read in this Chamber last week. I think my reflections on the Throne Speech should begin with a sincere thanks to the educators of the province of Manitoba for the extraordinarily good work that they do, day in and day out, in providing for the education of young Manitobans.

I think all too often the role of teachers and the hard work that teachers undertake on behalf of young Manitobans has been overlooked in the recent historical past in this province. We on this side of the House recognize teachers as the dedicated hardworking professionals that they are. I should also give thanks at the outset to the trustees throughout the province of Manitoba who guide and direct the public education system as elected representatives of their local jurisdictions. They certainly have risen to the challenge facing them as trustees in this province.

Manitobans well know the public education system over the last decade has seen tremendous cuts, has seen tremendous fiscal challenges, has seen for the local ratepayers, of course, year after year after year of cutbacks implemented by the previous government resulting in extraordinarily high levels of property taxation, indeed an explosion in local property taxation over the last decade. *( 15:20) Trustees have often been left to carry that bag on behalf of the previous administration.

They were left to deal with the fiscal shortfalls that were forthcoming from ill-considered decisions made by the members opposite during their decade in power. I think the trustees have to be acknowledged here for the work, for the very hard work that they have done to maintain a public education system in the face of what amounted to a decade of historic cuts into the public education system. Also, Mr.

Acting Speaker, I wanted to thank the parents who have children in the public school system for the tremendous insight and tremendous commitment that they make to having a system of public education in this province that is worthy of their children. Teachers, trustees, parents and students together make up what is the public school system in the province of Manitoba. Together they deserve the gratitude of this Chamber for ensuring that the system is the best it can be.

The Throne Speech that we are speaking here to today had a number of impor tant considerations and important comments to make about the public and post-secondary education system in the province of Manitoba. The past decade, as I mentioned earlier, saw tremendous cuts made to the public school system. They also saw tremendous cuts, tremendous offloading made in the post-secondary system to the extent that as we sit here to debate the second Throne Speech there is a quarter-of-a-billio n-dollar capital deficit existing in the public school system.

It is windows, rooves, heating systems, mechanical systems, deferred maintenance, a quarter of a billion dollars that was left to lie unattended by the members opposite.

In the post-secondary system we are also confronted with a quarter-of-a-mill ion-dollar capital deficit from unattended-to capital needs, whether it is the Engineering building at the University of Manitoba or the architectural building at the University of Manitoba, Wesley Hall at the University of Winnipeg, a downtown campus for Red River that was much mooted by the members opposite which had no dollars attached to it when I assumed the office of the Minister of Education. Mr. Acting Speaker, my own home community, the Keystone Centre is an economic

December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 213 engine for this province, an economic engine for agriculture in this province.

I know something that members opposite like to talk about, their connection with rural Manitoba and their connection to agriculture in this province and their success, their commitment to agriculture in this province, but like the huge capital hole that exists in the post-secondary system and in the public school system from a lack of caring, frankly, for the infrastructure needs of the school system, just so it has occurred in the public school system and the post-secondary system in terms of deferred maintenance, maintenance that was neglected for so many years, not funded, not supported by members opposite when they were in government.

The Keystone Centre in Brandon, the jewel of agriculture in this province, is confronting a multimill ion-dollar issue around capital infrastructure, an ice plant that is 25 years of age, many years past its replacement date, a roof that has problems of leakage, Mr.

Acting Speaker, major problems with the quality of air flow and mechanical system in the Keystone Centre, so right across the spectrum, whether it is public schools, whether it is universities, community college, agricultural centres, hospitals, health centres, the members opposite left the people of Manitoba an enormous capital deficit, an enormous capital deficit in the infrastructure in this province. I think that is a shameful thing, something that this Government is very dedicated and determined to overcome during our mandate in office. Mr.

Acting Speaker, the Throne Speech speaks, as I mentioned, very broadly on educational issues. I think I will take some time to review the commitments to education that this Government is pledged to uphold. We are proud, and I am personally proud as Minister of Education and proud of my department, which is much more streamlined, incidentally. We have brought business principles into the Department of Education. We went from a very bloated senior bureaucracy with multiple deputies and assistant deputies.

I know that the members opposite like talking about the business a lot and like talking about efficient use of resources. Well, in my office, we were bumping into deputy ministers and assistant deputy ministers everywhere you turned the first week that I was in that particular portfolio, all inciden tally at tremendous cost to the taxpayers of the province of Manitoba. We believe on this side of the House in putting the resources in education into the classrooms of the province of Manitoba and not into salaries for senior administration. Of course, there is a place for administration.

The department and the staff of the department work very, very hard and very diligently and very professionally to provide for education in the province of Manitoba. That is something that I am very proud of, but I am also very proud of the determination and the professionalism of the department in reorganizing to become a stronger, leaner, more ef ficient, more businesslike unit, which is certainly something that it was not under the members opposite. Mr.

Acting Speaker, the Speech from the Throne speaks broadly about our commitment to education, our commitment to renewing hope in young people in the Province of Manitoba, our commitment to focussing resources on youth in the Province of Manitoba. I know that, again, members opposite like talking about cost and expenditures and what the cost of specific areas are. On this side of the House, we see education as an investment. We do not see the cost of educating young people in Manitoba in the same sense that members opposite see a cost.

We see it as an opportunity for that young person to grow, to succeed in his or her future endeavours, and it is an investment in the young people of our province, not a cost to somehow be tabulated against a balance sheet. Mr. Acting Speaker, in the public school side, I am very, very pleased that this Government, right from the beginning of our mandate, have begun to address a number of serious issues in the public school system.

In the first two weeks of office, we made announcements on the commercialization of our classrooms with the implementation of the Youth News Network that was allowed to proceed under the former administration, the dedication of curriculum time to the watching of television and the watching of commercial messages by the captive, passive audience of school children in our province during curriculum time, an appalling reality which was

214 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 allowed to proceed and in fact enco urage d, if we take to heart some of the members opposite's remarks during previous discussions in this Chamber, the encouragement of the commercial­ ization of the classrooms of the province of Manitoba, the sell ing of young Manitobans' minds to the highest bidder, something that we on this side of the House fe lt to be quite deplorable and quite shameful, frankly, an abrogation of the responsibility of the legisla tors of this province to the young people in our province, to the youth of our province, an absolute abroga tion of responsibil ity to the integrity of the public school system in our province.

We made an announcement on YNN within the first two weeks of being in office that we would halt the further incursion of this commercial enterpri se into our classrooms. I am pleased that that commitment has been maintained. It was a promise that was made and it is a promise kept, something that this Government fe els is very important in terms of the expec tations of Manitobans for this Governmen t.

This Government is committed, has made commitments to the people of Manitoba and intends on fulfilling those commitments throughout our mandate . * (15: 30) We also made an announcement quite quickly with regard to the tying of funding support to the public education system in our province to economic growth in our province. Last year we made the single largest announcement, increasing funds to the public school system in the province of Manitoba in over a decade. I am very, very proud of the fact that this Governme nt is investing in the public school system at historic levels.

The Throne Speech talks of that investment, speaks to that investment, and that investment will continue throughout the mandate of this Government. We on this side of the House see education as an investment in justice, social justice, an invest­ ment in healthy communities, an investment in economic developmen t, but most importantly this is an investment in Manitobans and in the future of Manitoba, and it is an investment that this Governm ent continues to maintain and enhance in future years.

The tying of the public school funding support levels to the rate of economic growth in the province of Manitoba I think is a very innovative, a very progressive step that was made by this Government. It is unique in Canada. It provides school administrators with a sense of stability and security as they develop their business plans for the existing academic year and academic years to come.

It was a very frustrating endeavour over the past I 0 years for any school business official in any region of the province of Manitoba to try to plan year in and year out, because there was no consistency in funding announcements, if we are to speak of a business plan in any long-term sense, which is quite astounding to me, given that the member s opposite often like to talk about their business acumen and their considera ble skills in terms of business planning and so forth. Certainly there was no business plan in the Department of Education and Training for long-term stability in the system.

In fact, what we had was a reality of year after year of cuts, real cuts, in support to the public school system, peppered sporadically with moderate increases in support, usually coinciding with upcoming elec tions or the political caprices of the moment.

The trend throughout the last 10 years was a constant decline in the level of provincial support to the public education system and a constant increase in the level of local property taxation borne by Manitobans at the local level, due entirely to the provincial cuts that came repeatedly year after year from members opposite. [interjection} Tory downloading, my colleague from Brandon-West adds, Mr. Acting Speaker. That is exactly what it was. We hear a lot of rhetoric from members opposite, and we just heard a lot of rhetori c from the member from Whyte Ridge on the issue of taxation.

Well, the member should be aware, no doubt is aware , no doubt wishes to obfuscate and obscure the fact that the members opposite presided over the single largest era of property taxation in the province of Manitoba's history. The explosion of local property taxation that took place under the watch of members opposite

December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 215 is really quite astonishing and frankly quite appalling. The investment this Government is making in the public education system is most laudable. It speaks to the desire of this Government to have education, Mr. Acting Speaker at the forefront of our policies around social justice, around healthy communities, around economic development.

It speaks to the idealism on this side of the House in terms of giving young Manitobans hope for their future in terms of providing enhanced accessibility to the public school system and adds resources to the public school system, investing in capital resources in the public system and, in essence, turning around a system which had been open to ridicule by members opposite and had been open to denigra tion. The teaching profession underwent a considera ble amount of denigra tion by members opposite during the ir term in office. Mr.

Acting Speaker, we on this side of the House support and are proud to support teachers, trustees, parents and students, all of whom together with us are seeking to restore a sense of idealism and a sense of educational excellence to the public school system in our province.

On the post-se condary side of the equati on, I mentioned to members that we were left with a quarte r-of-a-billion-dollar capital deficit in the post-secondary system, whether we are talking about the Engineering building at the University of Manitoba, Wesley Hall at the University of Winnipeg, the Student Union centre at the Colle ge Universitaire de Saint Boniface, the downtown campus at the Red River Community Colle ge, which I mentioned earlier was much mooted by members opposite without a dollar attached to it, which is quite a convenient thing to be announcing during election campaigns, not having to have any commitment to actually resourcing or having monies allocated for a proje ct such as the Red River campus project downtown.

Mr. Acting Speaker, this Government, a month and a half ago, six weeks ago, made the largest series of capital announcements for post­ seco ndary education in the province of Manitoba's history: $50 million to the University of Manitoba; 31. 5 to Red River Community College, a $20-million commitment to the other three universities that are in our province, the largest single capital announcement in the province of Manitoba's history. Even at that, it does not address the entire capital deficit the members opposite left this Government when they left of fice 14 months ago.

On the post-sec ondary side, our investment extends to enhanc ing, in fact, reintro ducing a bursary program for the province of Manitoba after more than half a decade of no bursaries being made available to students . Mr. Acting Speaker, this Government on this side of the House implemented a 10% tuition reduction this year for all post-sec ondary institutions in the province of Manitoba, something that no other jurisdiction in Canada has ever underta ken. An Honourable Member: It is an historic vision. Mr. Caldwell: It is an historic vision, Mr.

Acting Speaker, again, my colleague from Brandon West sta tes and adds with me that it is an historic vision, and indeed it is.

This Government believes in supporting the hopes of young Manitobans, in supporting the hopes of young people in this province in having a quality education system and providing an affordable post-sec ondary education system, enhancing access to the post-seco ndary system in the province of Manitoba for all Manitobans, not only those wealthy enough to be able to afford the $50,0 00 debt load that students typically have been undertaking to comple te a university degree in this province over the last number of years.

We are very proud of putting substantive resources into tuition policy and bursary policy in the province of Manitoba over the last 14 months. In fact, Mr. Acting Speaker, indeed the investment that this Government has made in young Manitobans through its bursary and tuition policy has resulted in increased enrolment figures, dramatically increased enrolment figures across the province.

Coupled with the growing economy and low joblessness rate s, this increased enrollmen t is unprecedented, and it is a testament to the commitment of my colleagues in caucus and Cabinet to investing in education, and I thank them very much for that. I

216 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 thank Manitobans for the opportunity, in fact, to implement policies that provide for quality post­ seconda ry education in the province. Levels of opera ting support, as well, have been enhanced across the post-secon dary system. So on every indicator at every level, this Government is investing in young people; it is investing in teachers; it is investing in schools; it is investing in univer sities; it is investing in community colleges.

This Government is a government that belie ves in strongly supporting and investing significantly in enhanced education and educational excellence in the province of Manitoba, and I am very, very proud to sit on this side of the House with members who share a vision for Manitoba that extends beyond one's pocketbook, I suppose, if I could say that, although the pocketbook that members opposite speak of generally speaks to the top 5 percent of socie ty and leaves the rest to fe nd for them selves. We on this side of the House believe in equality of opportunity. We believe in investing in education.

We believe in providing for social justice, for economic developm ent, for healthy communities and for a balanced approach to taxation, a balanced approach to economic development. * (15: 40) You know, Mr.

Acting Speaker, it sticks in my craw whenever I hear members opposite talk about taxation and their concern for taxation, because on a daily basis I look at the correla tion between the tremendous and dramatic offloading of responsibil ity for the funding of our public school system and the explosion in local property taxation that took place throughout this province over the last decade, directly correlated to taxation decisions made by the members opposite. Our record on this matter, Mr.

Acting Speaker, is very clear to the public today and will be very clear to the public as we move forward throughout our mandate, and I will never have a hesitation in comparing the record on education, on property taxation, on balance, on hope of this Government with the record of the members opposite when it comes to taxation, investment in education, in fact maintaining the integrity of the public school system and the post-secondary system in this province general ly. So, Mr. Acting Speaker, the Throne Speech talks of restoring hope for young people through opportunities in educa tion.

Our record also speaks to that. In fact, our record confirms that this Government is interested in providing hope through new opportunities for Manitoba's young people. I have outlined some of the solid commitments and solid progress that has been made in this past year, and there will be more to come in future throne speeches and future budgets. We have been working very, very assiduously in government to ensure that we address the grave needs of Manitobans when it comes to education, post-se condary and public. That record will continue. The Throne Speech talks about thinking ahead to the year 2020, Mr.

Acting Speaker. In 2020, the Manitoba child born today will be preparing to enter a workforce and to assume full responsibilities of citizenship. What are the legacies that we wish to esta blish for the children who will come of age in 2020? In last year's Budget and in this Throne Speech, this Government has spoken to and acted on the legacy that we hope to provide for children born today in the year 2020.

That involves significant investment in education, significant investment in health care, a balanced approach to the fiscal realities that confront our province and other provinces, a balanced approach to taxation. We are committed on this side of the House to the goal of lifelong learning. We see lifelong learning as one of the most important legacies that we can create for our children. Successive learning is an indispensable ingredient for success in the future for the new economy, as my colleague the Minister of lndustry, Trade and Mines (Ms.

Mihychuk) reminds me on an almost daily level as we sit beside each other in the House. She does not miss an opportunity to remind me of the new economy and the importance of education in taking advantage of the opportunities presented by the new economy. This first year for this Government was a crucial one for this new government, a crucial one in setting the spirit that will guide this Government throughout its mandate. With the

December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 217 steps taken in this first year, with the indications for the future provided for in this Throne Speech, Manitobans can be assured that the Doer government is the education government of this province.

We will be known as the education government of this province. [interjection] I thank my colleagues for again applauding those remarks because I think the legacy of the Doer government will be renewed hope for youth in this province and it will be a focus on educational investment, and that indeed is a legacy that speaks to years and decades to come and for the future prosperity of this province as a whole. mentioned earlier that when this Government came into office it faced a massive infrastructure deficit in our colle ges and universities, a quarter of a billion dollars.

I made ref erence to the fact that in my home constituency of Brandon East, the Keystone Centre, the jewel of agriculture in this province in terms of exhibitions, in terms of a home for the community, of farmers and agriculture producers that live in this province, the Keystone Centre , is confronting the same sort of neglect now that was brought upon our colle ges and post-secondary institutions, universities and colleges in the province, the same sort of neglect that was borne and brought upon our public school system, the same sort of neglect that was borne upon our public health system.

We will talk about another piece of infrastructure in my home constituency that was completely neglected. [interjection} My colleague the Minister of Industry, Trade (Ms. Mihychuk) talks about the open-air concept in classrooms. Beli eve me, in some of our classrooms in the province of Manitoba indeed it is an open-air concept where you have roofs leaking and windows gone without maintenanc e.

So, the maintena nce, the public school system, the post-seco ndary system, the Keystone Centre in Brandon, the Brandon Regional Health Centre which was first announced almost 10 years ago and in successive ele ction campaigns, ple dged by the members opposite to build a health centre in western Manitoba worthy of the region, this Government will be investing in that. We will do it. We will fulfil that commitment and we will fulfil the commitmen t to invest across the province of Manitoba in the infrastructure that was so sadly neglected over the past decade.

This year a crucial first step was taken in terms of beginning to address the massive infrastructure deficit at our university system. As I said six weeks ago, the largest series of announcements for capital infrastructure investment was made at the University of Manitoba: $50 million to the University of Manitoba, $3 1.5 million made for Red River College, $20 million for the other universities in our post-seco ndary system, Mr. Acting Speaker, the largest such investment in the province of Manitoba's history, and this Government is very, very proud of that fact.

We promised in the ele ction school and university funding increases this year reflected with growth in the economy, and we have fulfilled that commitment. We promised a new college expans ion fund to increase post­ secondary options throughout the province and have begun that endeavour this year with the highest rate of enrolment increases in the better part of a decade. As promised, students in Manitoba colle ges and universities saw their tuition costs reduced by I 0 percent this year. In addition, over 5700 young Manitobans will receive financial support through new fe deral and provincial bursary programs.

This is a record of accomplishment in education, something that we on this side of the House are very, very proud of. The most dramatic increases, I think, will be made in the areas of education and health care . Enrollment in the health care professions this past year saw 446 more nursing students enro lled in Manitoba, a Bachelor of Education program that has been expanded and the re­ estab lishment of the Nursing Diploma program. Mr. Conrad Santos, De puty Speaker, in the Chair * (15 :50) Computer science programs, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, at the University of Manitoba are proje cted to graduate 35 percent more students following a special investment in program expans ion made by this Government.

218 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 An Honourable Member: Wise investment. Mr. Caldwell: I know the Minister of Industry, Trade and Mines (Ms. Mihychuk) is applauding that as a wise investment, and I agree with her on that. The conditions for successf ul learning are in place, of course, long bef ore a child enters kindergar ten. This Government made a commitment through the Healthy Child Initiative, Healthy Child Manitoba, to enhance Manitobans' ability to have their children be given opportunities bef ore they enter the public school system. We are investing in parent- child centre s, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, investing in F AS programs across the province to address the very tragic and very serious issue of fe tal alcohol syndrome in youth and children in this province. Public schools are increas ingly becoming community schools, centres of activities for seniors, for parents, for adult learners, community sports, and other community events.

Our Government will continue to extend the benefits and hours of opera tion of local schools, keeping more gyms and computer rooms open at night and making schools a resource base for parents and for pre-school children in our communities throughout the province of Manitoba. Classroom learning will be linked with education experiences available outside the school. High school students should have the option of taking university or colle ge courses for credits in high school. Students should get credit on their transcripts for community volunteer work.

Every graduating student should be able to assemble a portfolio that reflects the breadth of their learning experience, and this Government is committed to providing for those lifelong opportunities for youth throughout the course of our mandate . Mr. Deputy Speaker, I think I could go on at more length in regard to the education commitments met and the educati on commitments made during the recent Throne Speech. Members opposite are urging me not to say more. I understand that, because I have been making many refer ences to the record of members opposite over the last decade.

I appreciate that they do not want to hear too much more on that record, nor probably do they wish to hear more on the record of this Government, the record of investment of those of us on this side of the House. I will wrap up my remarks with something that moved me last night. I was in committee last night for The Helen Betty Osborne Memorial Foundation Act, the committee hearings for that act. I was a child when Helen Betty Osborne was murdered in The Pas.

I recall that event throughout the years making an impact upon me as a Manitoban and an impact upon my understa nding of racism, of justice in this province, of a tragedy that bef ell a family in a · community. I was very moved last night when the family made presenta tions to the committee about the tremendous loss that they had experienced with the murder of Helen Betty Osborne and the tremendous strength and dignity of that family through some 29 years of spiritual turmoil and sadness that have been experienced by that family.

I was very, very moved as the Minister of Education, as a teacher myself , by the commitment of all parties at that committee last night to put aside petty politics, to put aside what oftentimes in this Chamber borders on shameful behav iour, personal issues coming to the floor of this Chamber, and for a common good make redress in the best way we can 29 years later as members of this Legisla ture to honour the memory of Helen Betty Osborne, to com­ mem orate her life and to comme morate it in a very fitting fashion for someone who wished to become a teacher and whose dream s were cut short by a brutal murder, to inaugurate a foundation dedicated to providing support to Aboriginal Manitobans who share the same dream that Helen Betty Osborne had, to become a teacher, to inaugurate a foundation, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, that will support those dreams for those young Manitobans and perhaps not so young Manitobans who dream of becoming a teacher in the province of Manitoba. I began my remarks today in giving thanks, in giving praise to the teachers and educa tors of our province, who do such extra ordinarily good work day in and day out for the future of the youth of this province. Certain ly the dreams of

December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 219 Helen Betty Osborne will correspond to that vision of providing the best possible education for young Manitobans and for living that dream of being a teacher. As I conclude my remarks, I want to just say that I am very thankful and grateful as the Minister of Education that the Helen Betty Osborne Foundation will be dedicated to assisting young Aboriginal Manitobans in pursuing their dreams of becoming teachers in this province. I am very, very proud of all members who participated in that debate . Unanimously we will be passing that act into law this week.

Finally, I am very proud to be a part of the Doer government, the education government of the 21st century in Manitoba. Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Deputy Speaker, this is the first time I have had the opportunity to speak in response to a Throne Speech. I am honoured to rise in the House today in the Second Session of the Thirty­ Seventh Legisla ture of the Province of Manitoba. I would first like to thank the constituents of Tuxedo for giving me the privilege of representing them in the Legisla tive Assembly.

It goes without saying that I would not be standing bef ore you today if it were not for the support of so many outstanding citizens in our community. I thank them whole -he artedly for their commitment and guidance throughout this process. I also want to take this opportunity to welcome our new leader of the PC Party of Manitoba to his official post in the Manitoba Legisla ture as the Leader of the Official Opposition and the MLA for Kirkfield Park. Some Honourable Members: The next Premier. Mrs. Stefanson: The next Premier, absolute ly.

I want to thank our leader for all his guidance and support over the last several weeks in my bid to represent the people of Tuxedo. I also want to thank all of my colle agues on this side of the House today for their tireless support and advice and for their kind words of welcome and enco urage ment. As the newly ele cted rookie member, I am very much looking forward to working with the members on both sides of the Chamber to ensure the flow of debate continues on issues that are of concern to all Manitobans. There are a fe w other people who are new to this process around the L