Manitoba Hansard — 30 November 2017 (Sitting 8B, 41st Legislature, 3rd Session)

41-3-8b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session – Forty-First Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXI No. 8B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, November 30, 2017 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-First Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP BINDLE, Kelly Thompson PC CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC CURRY, Nic Kildonan PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FLETCHER, Steven, Hon. Assiniboia Ind. FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Clifford Emerson PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake PC JOHNSTON, Scott St. James PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLASSEN, Judy Kewatinook Lib. LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Burrows Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MAYER, Colleen St.

Vital PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REYES, Jon St. Norbert PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples Ind. SCHULER, Ron, Hon. St. Paul PC SELINGER, Greg St. Boniface NDP SMITH, Andrew Southdale PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WHARTON, Jeff, Hon.

Gimli PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian, Hon. Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC YAKIMOSKI, Blair Transcona PC

243 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, November 30, 2017 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Good afternoon. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 7–The Sustainable Watersheds Act (Various Acts Amended) Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Sustainable Development): I move, seconded by the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Eichler), that Bill 7, The Sustainable Watersheds Act (Various Acts Amended);

Loi sur les bassins hydrographiques durables, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Ms. Squires : Madam Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to introduce T he Sustainable Watersheds Act. This bill proposes to make amendments to four acts: The Conservation Districts Act; The Water Protection Act; The Water Rights Act; and The Manitoba Habitat Heritage Act. This new legislation will address surface water management in a more focused and comprehensive way.

It strengthens watershed- based planning by moving from conservation districts to watershed districts, and by making drainage and water management simpler and more accountable. It also enables the implementation of an ecological services program that will support the protection of wetlands and incentivize landowners to retain water on their properties. And I'm happy to welcome all the stakeholders who are here today in the gallery to support this bill. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 203–The Insurance Amendment Act Hon.

Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I move, seconded by the member for The Maples (Mr. Saran), that T he Insurance Amendment Act be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Fletcher: Madam Speaker, with the new rules and–dealing with medical assistance in dying, the federal government and the provincial government have a lot of things to reflect on. This bill would allow –or would prevent insurance companies from taking advantage of these changes by indicating that anyone who is taking advantage of medical assistance in dying is, in fact, for insurance purposes, not committing suicide.

In other words, that's insurance companies –this bill would prevent insurance companies from declaring that medical assistance in dying be a suicide and therefore deny individuals the insurance that they had purchased. Thank you. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Committee reports? Tabling of reports? Ministerial statements? MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Steinbach's Food and Clothing Drive Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active L iving): It is my pleasure to honour the incredible work of two of Steinbach's finest community initiatives: the Southland Church annual Thanksgiving Food and Clothing Drive and the Steinbach Community Outreach. Steinbach and the surrounding area have al ways been known for their generosity and for their volunteerism, Madam Speaker, and there is not better example than Steinbach's annual Thanksgiving Food and Clothing Drive.

For the last 12 years, local volunteers collect donations of food, clothing, household goods and toys, with over 35,000 pounds donated this year alone. That is enough to fill more than 100 tables with clothing 18 inches deep. Nine hundred and thirty -seven volunteers participated this year with 1,400 hampers being distributed to 2,647 people in need receiving food and clothing. This is always an exciting event for our community as we have the chance to reflect on the many ways we have been blessed and to show our gratitude by giving to others.

244 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 30, 2017 Another fine example of an exceptional generosity in our community is the Steinbach Community Outreach. Formed in 2008, Steinbach Community Outreach assists people who are struggling to meet their essential needs. They focus their energies on the poor, the homeless and those at risk of being–becoming homeless by filling the gaps left by other programs. This means providing food, clothing, bedding, toiletries, to those most in need.

It also means welcoming, listening and connecting people with other services like the local food bank, soup kitchen and the volunteer shuttle service. On behalf of the Manitoba Legislature I want to congratulate the Southland Church annual Thanksgiving Food and Clothing Drive and Steinbach Community Outreach. Thank you for your hard work, your dedication to the community and your compassion. You continue to inspire us , and you continue to demonstrate the best of Steinbach and Manitoba.

Colleagues, please join me in recognizing the volunteers and organizers of these two wonderful community groups that are bettering the lives of Manitobans. They're with us here in the gallery today. And, Madam Speaker, I would ask leave of my colleagues in the House to include in Hansard the names of the volunteers and organizers of both of these community groups. Madam Speaker: Is th ere leave to include the names in Hansard? [Agreed] Southland Church Thanksgiving Food and Clothing Drive: Co-ordinators, Grace Hiebert, Scott Rickey.

Core team: Ange Funk, Crystal Klassen, Jewel Martens, Kim Neufeld, Rick Siemens, Joel Wiebe Steinbach Community Outreach: Tammy Bekkering, Hilda Doerksen, Myra Gerbrandt, Irene Kroeker World AIDS Day Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): Tomorrow is World AIDS Day. I'm surprised there's no ministerial statement about it. It is important to raise awareness and support to those in Manitoba and around the world facing the challenges of living with HIV or AIDS.

In the fight against AIDS, significant advancements that have been made make it important to highlight the work that continues to be done in order to defeat this disease and give patients and their families hope for the future. Manitoba has one of the highest HIV and AIDS diagnosis rates in Canada . E ach diagnosis forever affects the life of the patient, their families and their community. For every victim of the disease, their lives, as well as the lives of loved ones, are forever affected.

Often, patients not only have to struggle with health complications ; they may also s tuffer from the stigmas attached which can lead to isolation and depression. Another challenge is that nearly one out of every five Canadians with HIV does not know it, which puts others at a higher risk as well. Increasing testing, awareness and education is essential . In the face of these difficulties, Manitoba's front -line workers continue to step up. We can be proud of Manitoba's team of professionals, health- care workers, volunteers, advocates and community organizations for working hard to achieve that.

An example of this is the work of the Nine Circles Community Health Centre, which provides medical, emotional and spiritual care to patients in many ways. Due to several medical advancements, AIDS patients are now able to get the treatment they need to live long, fulfilling lives and have the opportunity to re ceive counselling, support and be part of a community.

We call on all members of this House to use our own influence to end isolation, end stigmatization and end infection by standing with every person whose life has been touched by HIV or AIDS and strive to create a better future for the millions worldwide affected by the disease. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Chief Karen Batson Mr. Rick Wowchuk (Swan River): Chief Karen Batson was elected as the first female chief of Pine Creek First Nat ion on January 4th, 2017. Chief Batson grew up in Pine Creek, later leaving the community to pursue a post -secondary education in psychiatric nursing.

She went on to further attain two undergraduate degrees and a m aster's in education, which led to a teaching career at Assiniboine college and Brandon University. Chief Batson's election platform emphasized fiscal responsibility, enhancement of economic opportunities and increased training and education for her community. Both c hief and c ouncil have increased employment and training opportunities

November 30, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 245 while incorporating processes toward financial stability. In addition, they work diligently to address social and infrastructure issues affecting the quality of life for Pine Creek residents, including a strategy to address addictions. Chief Batson has also been active member of AMC First Nation s Women's Council. The group presented on the issue of ongoing concerns of missing and murdered indigenous women across Canada to the Commission on Status of Women at the United Nations. Strong working relationships have been a focus for Chief Batson and council.

Working alongside community elders and Sustainable Development, they developed strong partnerships to ensure the protection of natural resources and environmental sustainability. Pine Creek First Nation was instrumental in securing provincial park status for traditional hunting , harvesting areas in Lake Winnipegosis area. * (13:40) In a short time, her leadership has made great strides to improve the quality of life in the community. Chief Batson is grateful to have a strong, supportive council and staff. Her leadership style emphasizes change while honouring traditions and values of the Anishinabe people.

Chief Batson stated she could not embark on this journey wit hout the ongoing support of her husband, family, friends and elders who encourage, advise and guide her as she continues her exciting endeavours. Madam Speaker, I ask my fellow colleagues to recognize Chief Batson who is here today with her family, and thank you. Public Transit Services Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Madam Speaker, I want to talk about transit and what the provincial government is, or rather, is not doing to assist.

Transit is a lifeline for many Manitobans throughout our province, and I have been receiving emails from my constituents with respect to the issue and how people are being hurt because of this government's decisions. Manitobans know how important transit is to our economy, to our climate and to our people, and this government has an obligation to fight for everyone, not just their donors. This past Sunday , Emily Wiebe said something in a CBC a rticle I'd like to read here. She said that the backs of the poor cannot take much more of having to pay for the plans of the rich.

Madam Speaker, there is so much truth here. There are several reasons people will choose to take the bus and we must encourage people to do so. I agree with what my constituents are suggesting and that this government should restore the 50- 50 provincial transit funding legislation that was removed earlier this year, as we need to keep public transit affordable. Madam Speaker, transit is u sed for a wide array of reasons. For one, it al lows for independence, especially for those who rely on public transit as their primary mode of transportation.

Number 2, a lot of people choose to use public transit because parking may not be ideal, like st udents and people who work downtown or perhaps b ecause another person in the household may need the vehicle. Thirdly, people choose to use public transit as a service to our environment b y reducing our carbon footprint. And lastly, a lot of people choose to take a bus simply because it is a way to save money. Madam Speaker, I hope this government reconsiders their decision and fights for all Manitobans and our environment by revisiting the provincial investment in public transit. Thank you.

Wolverine Football Team Mr. Nic Curry (Kildonan): I rise today to celebrate the championship West Kildonan Collegiate Wolverine football team. The Wolverines play their home games at West Kildonan Collegiate in front of proud supporters , wearing their signature blue and silver. The homecoming game was full of cheering fans who watched the Wolverines win against Maples Collegiate by a dominating score of 30-0. The Wolverines are led by second year head coach Russell Wallace and can be described as the most improved team in the league .

From last year's 0-7 campaign, the Wolverines went 6-3 on their path to championship game. The WHSFL Bowl was the ir last and most important game of the year and played in a crisp, chilled air of fall time Canadian football. The West Kildonan Wolverines met the St . Norbert Celtics in

246 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 30, 2017 the WHSFL Bowl at Investors Group Field on November 8th, 2017. Taking an early lead and leading at the half, the Wolverines were confident that they could hold out for the win in the ice -swept stadium with footballs cold as ice and hard as concrete. Exchanging third quarter touchdowns , the Celtics surged in the dying minutes of the fourth quarter to score a touchdown, only to miss the point after attempt.

The victory seemed certain, and the Wolverines were only ahead by a score of 13 -12, but the young leaders rounded everyone up and told them the game was far from over. The Celtics recovered their onside kick as the collective air left all the lungs of every player on the West Kildonan sideline. Through discipline d determination, the Wolverine defense ground the Celtics down to a standstill until they reached the edge of scoring range. St. Norbert lined up for their last snap. It's a pass, called out the Wolverines on the sideline. But the ball was de flected dead, t he game was won.

Wolverines rushed the field, the crowd cheered and Coach Wallace was dunked with water. Nick Birch was named MVP of the WHSF Bowl, but it was a full team effort that carried these young athletes to victory. The team has much to look forw ard to in the future with most of its players in the 10th and 11th grade, while six graduating players , some of them here today, have been in contact to the Winnipeg Rifles football club to play with them next year. This year showed the true test of team work, patience and determination as the keys to West Kildonan Collegiate championship season.

I ask the Legislature to join me in congratulating these young athletes. Madam Speaker, I ask for leave to include the names of the students, staff, coaches of the championship West Kildonan Wolverines. Madam Speaker: Is there leave to include the names in Hansard? [Agreed] West Kildonan Wolverines 2017 .

Players: Tyler Anderson, Miguel Babau, Jakob Bakerzak, Francesco Bergamorto, Jaydeon Bernard, Nick Birch, Mckiah Connolly, Mckiah Connoly, Evan Crawley, Dominic Cromarty, Tanner Dola, Dylan Fathers, Lucas Filbert, Angel Gibbons, Matt Gliha, Michael Guerreiro, Hunter Haddad, Jacob Harris-Settee, Hunter Hazel, Luke Lehman, Russell Listmayer, Evan MacDonald, Devon Machum, Muhammad Maqsood, Brody Morovek, Matt Obirek, Justin Petrishen, Raf Pillotes, Ashton Rolland, Zach Shrupka, Nathan Slaby, Seth Spence, Damian Targosz, Joel Truthwaite, Jestoni Villanueva, Zach Woychuk, De'von Young, Noah Young.

Staff: head coach, Russell Wallace; assistant coaches, Antonio Bergamorto, Brenda Bicklmeir, Corbin Boughen, Eric Johnson, Kevin Kwazny, Carl Wiebe; athletic trainer, Lisa Smyrichinsky Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to oral questions, we have some guests seated in the public gallery. From Kildonan East Collegiate we have 33 grade 9 students under the direction of Ebony Hunter and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe). On behalf of all honourable members here, we welcome you to the Manitoba Legislature.

ORAL QUESTIONS Ambulance Services Budget Municipal Cost-Sharing Agreement Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, it's clear this Premier (Mr. Pallister) and this government don't play well with others. They've picked political fights with the federal government that have cost Manitoba families and now they're picking a political fight with municipalities that's costing Manitoba families on transit and even on health-care services. Minister of Health, through the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority, ordered the end to a cost- sharing agreement on ambulance services.

This will mean that the City of Winnip eg goes without two and a half million dollars this year and it means some $5 million less a year for ambulances services in the city. Now, like all cuts this Premier is making, this one was made unilaterally without consultation or warning. It was delive red in a letter after the City budget had already been printed and was prepared to be delivered. So the Premier needs to explain to the people of Winnipeg: Why has he cut the ambulance cost-sharing agreement with the City?

November 30, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 247 Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living): Well, Madam Speaker, I don't know how the Leader of the Opposition actually got that question out of his mouth without laughing–that doesn't know how to play well with others. That was a caucus, a caucus that was in more pieces than Lego. They were scattered all over the place. They fought. For three years they fought with each other. They fought internally. They fought externally. They fought at news conferences. They fought at party conventions.

We're working with other levels of government. We're working to better things with Manitoba. As far as I know, they're still fighting with each other, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Well, Madam Speaker, it looks like working with other levels of government for the Premier (Mr. Pallister), here, is more painful than stepping on a piece of Lego. So, this is a cut to front-line health-care services.

It doesn't get more front line than the people who drive you to the hospital when you are sick or when you are injured, yet this is the type of service that the Premier is choosing to target for cuts now. And, again, this cut was not communicated face to face; it was not communicated in a meeting. It was delivered in a letter to the City on budget day after the budget for this year had already been prepared, even though it will reduce the amount of funding that the City is able to pay for this much needed ambulance service on.

So now that t he Premier has broken his promise to protect front -line services once again, will this government finally come to their senses? Will the Premier reverse his decision to end the cost-sharing agreement for ambulances with the City of Winnipeg? Mr. Goertzen: Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Official Opposition ignores the fact that there's been a significant increase in funding to the City of Winnipeg when it comes to ambulances, more than 28 per cent when it comes year over year for the ambulance service.

And, of course, we've said to the City–and we said months ago–that they would be holding that funding, that that increase would be locked in for this budget year, that they would continue to get that increase. * (13:50) Now, there are always discussions in year about other amounts of funding when it comes to top- up, Madam Speaker, but the City shouldn't be expecting that it's going to be 28 per cent this year, next year, the year after. That simply isn't sustainable. Manitobans have asked us to get our financial house in order. I'm sure they'd expect the same of the City.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: The C ity has to balance its budget – difficult to do so when this government pulls the rug out from under you on budget day by reducing the amount of funding, not face to face, not in a phone conversation, but with a letter. So it's no surprise that we see the situation going from bad to worse under this Premier. We know that ambulance services are about as front -line a service as it gets. They will transport you to the hospital when you're sick, when you're injured.

They serve some of the most vulnerable people in our city, and yet this is a program that the government is abdicating its responsibility for and is now putting in jeopardy. So where will the difference be made? Will it be a reduction in ambulance services? Will it be a reduction in other services that the city provides? Or could the Pre mier simply do the right thing and restore the cost -sharing agreement on ambulances with the City of Winnipeg? Mr.

Goertzen : Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition now has talked about working well with others and he's talked about balanced budgets: two things that he knows nothing about, two things that that previous government never was able to demonstrate. We provided significant increases of funding to the City of Winnipeg for ambulance service, more than 28 per cent year over year. We've said t hat for this year that would be locked in. They continue to get that increase. Of course, there can be other discussions when it comes to additional funding, Madam Speaker.

We're always willing to have those discussions, but no level of government should be expecting an increase of 28 per cent year after year after year.

248 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 30, 2017 There is only one taxpayer in Manitoba, Madam Speaker. We'll protect them while that government – the former government never did. Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to continuing on with oral questions, we have some further guests in the gallery that I would like to introduce to you.

We have members from a number of organizations: the Manitoba Habitat Heritage Corporation, Keystone Agricultural Producers, IISD, Ducks Unlimited, Delta Waterfowl, AMM, Manitoba Conservation Districts Association and Manitoba Beef, who are the guests of the honourable Minister for Sustainable Development. I'd like to welcome all members here on behalf of the Legislature. * * * Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Federal Parental Leave Changes Timeline for Provincial Legislation Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): So, we know that the issue is clear and the government has had some time to get briefed up on the changes to parental leave that are being brought in by the federal government and that will take effect this weekend. Again, parental leave–maternity leave, paternity leave–is being extended in terms of the –sorry, in terms of the employment insurance benefits from 12 months to 18 months.

However, in order to guarantee that parents –new parents–are able to have a job waiting for them when they complete that period, there needs to be a legislative change to a provincial statute. A Manitoba law has to be changed. We've brought in a piece of private members' legislation which would accomplish this change. We'd like to know whether the government is prepared to support it so that Manitoba families with new babies on the way can ensure that they have access to this new 18 -month maternity or paternity leave benefits. Hon.

Blaine Pedersen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade): I was looking forward to the de bate on that bill this morning, but apparently something happened and it didn't come, so– Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Official Opposition is inferring that this is impending legislation that needs to pass or else, and he's dead wrong on that. There is only one province so far that has begun legislation on it.

A number of other provinces have begun consultations on this, and, as of this morning, I have asked the Labour Management Review Committee to review this, which is the proper process, where it should have gone in the first place. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Well, it was clear yesterday that this government had no idea that this change was about to take place–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –so when they talk about needing consultation, when were they going to do it? Friday?

This is a change that is taking place this weekend. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: If the government were to be in a position to allow Manitobans to be able to take advantage of that–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –that would mean that the Province of Manitoba is in line with the changes to the national Employment Insurance program. Again, this is about ensuring that new parents can take the full 18 months and ensure that there is a job waiting for them at the end of that period.

Now, I understand that they want to debate other things because they've been having issues with some of their former members, but I would call on them to instead use government time to bring this bill forward and allow Manitoba families to take advantage of the new 18 -month maternity and paternity leave program. Madam Speaker: I would ask for everybody's co-operation that when somebody's asking a question and answers are being given, that the House listen carefully to what is being said.

I think shouting across at each other isn't going to make anything better and, in fact, it does a disservice to the democracy that we're here to serve, so I would ask for everybody's co-operation in this.

November 30, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 249 The honourable Leader of the –oh, the honourable Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade. Mr. Pedersen : As the member should've known when he went to introduce this privat e member's bill on this, he should've known that this is a piece of legislation that should've gone to the Labour Management Review Committee prior to it being introduced. The member was–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pedersen : –trying to circumvent the system. He's claiming that there's an emergency here. This is still up to –between employers and employees.

If they wish to have further leave, this is still very possible to do without legislation, and we will have consultations with–through the Labour Management Review Committee to see where to go with this. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: The government's currently sitting on a report from the LMRC, so I'm not too sure how respectful they are of that process at all. And, again, the government should've known that this change was coming for months and months and months now.

This has been a long- ago-announced federal initia - tive that new moms and new dads in Canada would be able to access 18 months of, you know, parental leave. And yet, this government, all of sudden, after we bring it up, they need time to consult, they've got to go to LMRC. They've got all manner of excuses. Why don't they just do the right thing and pas s the bill so that parents, starting on Sunday, can access–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –18 months of paternity or maternity benefits in this province? I hear the backbenchers, all of a sudden, raising their voices.

I can only assum e that they're supportive of this measure, which would allow for parental leave to take place. So will this government do the right thing, call the bill during government time this afternoon, pass it to committee today and ensure that it receives royal assent before the weekend? Madam Speaker: The honourable minister – [interjection]–order. Mr. Pedersen : Madam Speaker, the perceived emergency that the Leader of the Official Opposition is trying to put forward is really shameful.

He's trying to scare paren ts in that there is not extended leave, when there is, really, extended leave options out there. And this particular legislation deals with federal employees and there is the option for any other private or provincial employees to ask for the same type of leave. There is no additional money being put forward by the federal leave, and this –so we are quite able to do the same thing here without any legislation.

But it will go to the Labour Management Review Committee where we will get a report back and so that everyone can see what they –where they stand on this. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Federal Parental Leave Changes Request for Support for Bill 211 Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns ): We were disappointed this morning to see the government's feud with a former member in their caucus stand in the way of Manitoba mothers getting the maternity leave they deserve–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order, order. * (14:00) Ms.

Fontaine: There are countless benefits of mothers being with their newborns in their first months. Mothers need enough time to be with their children through this critical development stage. I honour the women who pushed for –to have the right to have a family and a career, and this government can also, by being on the right si de of history, and do their job and protect women's rights to their jobs. Will the minister put government bills on hold and pass Bill 211 before the weekend deadline? Hon.

Blaine Pedersen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade): Madam Speaker, it's shameful that the opposition tries to use scare tactics with new parents. The issue has gone to the Labour Management Review Committee and it will be for them to decide a recommendation back to government. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question.

250 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 30, 2017 Ms. Fontaine: The bottom line is that this government can't even be bothered to govern. Instead of making a simple legislative change to give mothers the parental leave they need to be with their children, they're ignoring them. Instead of doing his job, the Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade is telling mothers to go and argue with their employers. Mothers are entitled to this extended leave under the federal legislation–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms.

Fontaine: –but this government is now forcing them, perhaps, to hire a lawyer, to negotiate with their employees–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Fontaine: –and perhaps involve their union, just because the minister doesn't want to pass this bill or do his job. Will the minister prioritize our bill today? Mr. Pedersen : Madam Speaker, it doesn't matter how low the member stoops, it's gone to the Labour Management Review Committee. Madam Speaker: I shouldn't have to be standing this often. I woul d ask for co -operation. I just asked for members' co-operation a couple of minutes ago.

I would urge that when the Speaker does ask for co-operation of members, that there is enough respect for the Chair in this Legislature that members would heed the caut ion and that all members could be heard here. We're all elected. Everybody is here representing somebody, and I'm sure those constituents would like to know that democracy is well served in this place. The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary. Ms. Fontaine: Madam Speaker, as you know, women fought hard for the right to have children and keep their jobs and their careers. Unfortunately, this government is stuck in the past.

They are refusing to take simple actions necessary to ensure t hat mothers have job security when they have a baby. It's time for this government to stop putting barriers in front of working women, which they've done many, many times. Will they agree to put government business on hold today and pass our bill this afternoon? Mr. Pedersen : Madam Speaker, this is an issue for both mothers and fathers and new parents. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pedersen: We look forward to the report from the Labour Management Review Committee, and we will look forward to it being released.

Funding for Child-Care Spaces Federal Bilateral Agreement Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): Six months after the federal government announced a multilateral funding framework for the province, the Minister of Families has yet to sign the agreement and build one single child-care space. His Throne Speech is just a plan with another plan with no funding, no spaces, no commitments and some 17,000 families waiting for a spot. If this minister had sat at the table with the federal government, parents would have $15 million worth of spots this year alone.

Now we're almost a year behind and at least s even and a half million in the hole. Why hasn't this minister signed the agreement? Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Families): Working parents is a priority for this government. We want to make it easier for people to get child care. As I indicated over the last two days, our plan is with the federal minister. We need to wait for them to sign off on the plan. Once it's signed off, we'll make announcements. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a supplementary question. Mrs.

Smit h: The government's Throne Speech promised to launch a child- care strategy but announced zero actual spaces. In fact, the only real action we've seen from the minister is a bill that punishes low -income families, low -income parents who use child- care subsi dies. Instead of working with parents who are the poorest of the poor and who need affordable child- care spaces the most, this minister could take them to court instead of increasing access to child care or building more spaces.

This minister is putting p owers in place that could see the minister garnish parents' wages or send a collection agency after them.

November 30, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 251 Will this minister stop punishing low -income parents and build spaces? Mr. Fielding : This government was proud to introduce the child- care standards legislation just yesterday. What it's going to do is make it a little bit easier for child -care centres to operate here in the province of Manitoba. We know the inconsistencies of the NDP government in terms of their flip -flops. One thing they are consistent is–is in terms of their love for red tape and bureaucratic layers.

You could choke a small town here in southwestern Manitoba with all the child-care layers here. What this new legislation will do, it will provide a little bit of hope for child -care centres and allow them to operate in a more effective way and we're very proud of this legislation, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a final supplementary. Mrs. Smith: I wouldn't say taking the power away from pa rents and garnishing their wages –a step in the right direction or having the authority to take directors out of those positions.

This government's –as minister, has spent six months bickering with the federal government instead of building spots. We hav e almost 17,000 families waiting for these spaces while he – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Smith: –bickers with the federal government. He's targeting the poorest of the poor and the – putting the powers in place that could see parents taken to court. Shame. On this side of this House we know that low - income families need help. Will this minister stop punishing parents and sign the deal today? Mr.

Fielding : The comments are unbelievable considering you need a partnership agreement with the federal government, with a provincial government. That agreement is with the federal government for approval right now. Once the federal government gives its approval–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Fielding : –we'll take it back through our processes and we'll sign an agreement where there will be monies spent. The member also talks about child- care initiatives.

I was with the member from Wolseley earlier on in the week, at the University of Winnipeg, where we introduced more spaces based on th e budget, the amount of money, that we contributed to child-care spaces. It's a fantastic program and I encourage the member to look at some of the initiatives that we're taking on as a government. In terms of what they accomplished when they were in government where –a failed system in terms of a unbalanced approach with child care. We're going to get it right, Madam Speaker. Public-Private Partnerships Consultations and Accountability Mr.

Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Madam Speaker, this fall the Pallister government had as one of their priorities a bill to repeal legislation that requires full and public accounting of public -private partnerships in Manitoba, including by the Auditor General. There's a reason why the Pallister government doesn't want to be publicly accountable for these arrangements for things like schools, because in other provinces, like Nova Scotia, the true costs of the P3s ended up being tens of millions of dollars more expensive.

In fact, in Nova Scotia the deals were so bad that the government ended up buying the schools back from the private sector. So I'd like to ask the minister: Will he restore public accountability for these projects and allow the Auditor General to review these projects before he rushes in? * (14:10) Hon. Ian Wishart (Minister of Education and Training): We're working very constructively across the province here to catch up the deficit of school construction and school repairs that was left to us as a government.

We are working with the P3 process to make sure that we can build good schools at low cost on time, something the previous government never seemed to be able to get done. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a supplementary question. Mr. Wiebe: On August 2nd the Pallister government announced that it was pushing through these private– public-private partnerships for school construction.

252 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 30, 2017 An important component, though, of these–of public accountability is stakeholder consultation and public meetings, which–under pressure –the Pallister government agreed that they would actually undertake. If–the government's business case is due in just a few short weeks and consultations have yet to take place. I ask the minister: Why is he not being publicly accountable for P3s and will he hold consultations on these projects? Mr. Wishart : It's certainly our intention to follow the legislation regarding P3s and do consultations as required.

We certainly want to work with Manitobans to make sure they get the best value for their taxpayer dollar. The member keeps going back to examples from 25 years ago, which is Nova Scotia, and passing over many great examples where other provinc es built many schools on time and on budget, including our neighbours in Saskatchewan, who are now using 18 new schools. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a final supplementary. Mr. Wiebe: The fact is, Madam Speaker, that this Pallister government has removed the public accountability for these public -private partnerships.

Their consultations on bringing P3 school –P3s to school construction haven't happened even though the business case is just a few weeks away. It's now obvious that they're looking to limit the public scrutiny of these arrangements. But public consultation was promised by this government before the business plan was to be delivered, which is, again, just in a few short weeks.

So when, I'm asking the minister, when will these consultations take place or is this just another empty promise by this government? [interjection] Madam Speaker: I am again having to stand to address members about the level of noise in here, the level of heckling and sometimes shouting, and I don't really believe that that serves the purpose of what we should be–here.

These are all really important issues, and I am going to have to start to identify members by their constituencies if we keep going down that path, because I –and I don't think y our constituents are going to be very happy when they hear that you have been called out in the House for poor decorum and heckling. So I would urge some caution here. It's –I'm having to stand a number of times today. I'm having some difficulty in hearing people and I'm urging some co -operation here so that we can actually accomplish something good for the people of Manitoba. Mr. Wishart: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

I think Manitobans have heard the former government's plan that left us with a massive def icit of $250 million in terms of maintenance, and they left us with a situation–we were using record number of portables, over 500 portables in use, from their planning and their work in terms of keeping up with what Manitoba students needed here in Manitoba in terms of spaces. We're very pleased to offer Manitobans a better alternative and we will certainly do that. Addiction Treatment Centres Funding Support and Accessibility Ms.

Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Madam Speaker, Kim Longstreet is a mother in Brandon, one of many parents in Manitoba who has been struggling to find support for the family who are in face of a crisis with addictions. The major road block facing addicts is the lack of support and acc essibility to treatment centres in this province. Madam Speaker, this is so severe that people are having to leave the province to find the support that they need.

What is the minister going to do to ensure that those living in our province struggling with addictions can receive treatment and support when they need it without having to leave our province? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living ): Certainly, we know that one of the important steps that we took was to put Suboxone more available so that that front -line treatment would be available. It hadn't been available for many years under the former government, so we moved quickly to ensure the Suboxone was more readily available for those who're struggling with addictions, Madam Speaker.

Also, there's been a significant amount of money–in the hundreds of thousands of dollars – which have been used to sometimes send people out of province. We will be repurposing those funds to provide treatment in the province of Manitoba , Madam Speaker.

November 30, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 253 Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Burrows, on a supplementary question. Ms. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, this government claims to be spending record amounts of funds on health care, yet the latest annual report tells a different story. Numbers don't lie. According to the Manitoba Health Annual Report, this government only used 35 per cent of the budget for primary care and Aboriginal and northern health.

This government cut almost $16 million from community and mental health supports, $1.5 million from addictions policy and support and almost $1 million from health emergency management, all in 2016 and '17, yet the cost of administration of all these services have increased. Why are all of these departments receiving cuts when we know that there is money that was allocated by this government in the account? Mr.

Goertzen : Madam Speaker, in the last Estimates report that was tabled before this House, it was noted that there was a reduction in support for mental health and addictions t reatment as a result of the federal government cancelling one of their programs in Manitoba. I didn't hear the member say anything at that time. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Burrows, on a final supplementary. Ms. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, Manitoba families are facing a crisis due to lack of available addiction treatment centres.

It is so extreme that families here in Manitoba have to take matters into their own hands because this government is not listening. Why would this government choose to cut $1.4 million from addictions policy and support when our Manitobans are already being forced to leave the province due to lack of resources? How does this government plan to support addictions and mental health here in Manitoba with the extreme cuts that they have made? Mr. Goertzen: Madam Speaker, I already indicated that there was a reduction in a federal program. I can't speak for Justin Trudeau why he would have cut that program.

The member opposite might have a better opportunity to find out from Mr. Trudeau why that program was cut. I do know in Manitoba we've added Suboxone to–more available so that those who need it can get front-line treatment. We're also going to be repurposing funding that's been used for out-of-province treatment to provide more treatment in-province, Madam Speaker. Manitoba Labour Market Occupational Forecast Update Mr. Dennis Smook (La Verendrye) : For this government rebuilding the economy is a top priority and Manitoba is averaging the lowest unemployment rate in Canada so far this fiscal year.

Can the Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade update this House on the results of the Labour Market Occupational Forecasts? Hon. Blaine Pedersen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade): I thank my honourable colleague for that great question. The findings this year support the growing sense of optimism that business owners have about our economy and the growth in the years to come. This report predicts that more than 23,000 workers will join the labour force each year between 2017 and 2023 and, in addition, nearly 54,000 new jobs are expected to be created between 2017 and 2023.

Madam Speaker, we will continue to make–to do the work necessary to make Manitoba the most improved province in all of Canada. * (14:20) Manitoba Hydro Rate Increase Public Utilities Board Review Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): On Monday, Manitoba Hydro will ask the Public Utilities Board for a 7.9 per cent increase this year and every year until 2024. That's potentially hundreds of dollars more a year in utility costs for the average family.

Now, this government's hand- picked Hydro board couldn't prove to the Public Utilities Board that the 7.9 per cent rate increase was justified in August, but they're going to go and try again. Why does this government disagree with the Public Utilities Board? Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Crown Services): I do appreciate the question. I'm surprised that the member opposite would have nerve to ask that question, though, because we know why Manitoba Hydro has to ask for rate increases.

It's because of the reckless political deci sions that were made by that government that left Manitoba Hydro in such financial distress.

254 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 30, 2017 Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a supplementary question. Mr. Lindsey: Clearly, the Public Utilities Board didn't agree with that. Drastic and unnecessary rate increases at Manitoba Hydro will disproportionately hurt northern Manitobans. Northern Manitobans pay among the highest bills in the province because of weather, lack of access to affordable alternatives. Large hydro rate increases will have devastating effects on northern communities that are already reeling.

Will this government stop the hydro rate hikes and keep energy affordable in the North? Mr. Cullen: I do appreciate the question. What the previous government should've done was stop in their tracks and actually review the capital investment they were going to make. So we're building a $9- billion–and counting – dam in northern Manitoba without a market for it. Why would any government do that? They also went on and built a $5- billion bipole line, and, quite frankly, Madam Speaker, at the end of the day Manitoba Hydro will face a $25- billion capital debt. Somebody has to pay for it.

These folks got us into this mess; now we have to clean up the mess they left us with. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a final supplementary. Mr. Lindsey: Business and industry will be watching these rate hearings quite closely. They've said that drastic rate increases will hurt their bottom lines and discourage new inves tments by companies in Manitoba, these businesses that employ tens of thousands of Manitobas. If major companies pull up stakes due to rate hikes, the result will be more job losses for communities and lost revenue for Hydro.

The impact on ratepayers and business is serious. Will this government stop its plan for massive hydro rate increases? Mr. Cullen : Well, Madam Speaker, we know the previous government is not –was never concerned about the debt they were growing: growing the debt on the government, growing the debt of Manitoba Hydro. Madam Speaker, debt has to be serviced. Can you imagine the debt-servicing cost on $25 billion of debt that was incurred by the previous government?

That's a huge amount of money that Manitoba taxpayers, Manitoba ratepay ers, will have to cover because of the reckless decisions made by the previous government. Bureau de l'éducation française Assistant Deputy Minister Position Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Merci beaucoup, Madame la présidente. Aucune consultation, aucune avis, aucune excuse. Ça paraît que les consultations avec les représentants de la communauté franco -manitobaine, même celles sont obligées par loi, ne sont pas une priorité pour le Premier ministre du Manitoba (M. Pallister).

Ça paraît que les ministres de ce gouvernement ne respectent pas l'esprit ni la lettre de la Loi 5. Mais on voit que c'est bel et bien pas le cas ici. Après les compressions pour le Centre Flavie-Laurent cet été, après les compressions pour les centres p our les aînés, on apprend des nouvelles compressions pour l'éducation française ici au Manitoba. La communauté se rassemble. Une lettre signée par 13 anciens présidents et directeurs-généraux de la Société franco-manitobaine a fait demander de rétablir le poste supprimé.

Est-ce que le premier ministre va renverser sa décision de supprimer le poste du directeur –du sous-ministre adjoint immédiatement? Translation Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. No consultation, no notice, no apology. It appears that consultation with the representatives of the Franco-Manitoban community is not a priority for Manitoba's Premier (Mr. Pallister), even where it is required by law. It appears that the ministers of this government do not respect either the spirit or the letter of Bill 5. We see that it is in fact not the case here.

Following the budget cuts for Centre Flavie -Laurent this summer, and the cuts for seniors’ centres, we learn of new cuts for French education here in Manitoba. The community is gathering. A lett er signed by 13 former heads of the Société franco-manitobaine has asked that the position cut be restored.

November 30, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 255 Will the Premier (Mr. Pallister) reverse his decision to cut the director–assistant deputy minister posi - tion immediately? Hon. Ian Wishart (Minister of Education and Training): Certainly we respect F ranco-Manitoban Society and Franco-Manitobans in Manitoba. That's why we have increased funding because of increased demand for French immersion and full French courses across the province of Manitoba.

We're pleased to work with not only the society, but all parts of the French culture in Manitoba, especially the school division, to make sure that we have additional services available to them. And we are pleased to work with them to expand servi ces beyond the K -to-12 system and are consulting with them on that process. Livestock and Farm Buildings Repeal of Fire Prevention Code Mr. James Allum (Fort Garry -Riverview): The Manitoba Farm Building Code ensured that new farm buildings had increased fire protection for livestock and for property.

It was to be phased in so that within a generation farm property would be protected, farm animals would be protected, farmers themselves would be protected, and yet earlier this spring the code was repealed. Now, we've learned that 3,500 animals perished at a fire in New Bothwell, another 7,500 animals died in a blaze in Steinbach. So I have to ask the minister: Why in heaven's name would he repeal the Farm Building Code? Hon. Ralph Eichler (Minister of Agriculture): Loss of any animal is of concern to all of us.

In fact, over the last number of years we've seen no improvements to those facilities because the regulations wer e brought forward by the previous government. In fact, there was no barns built for close to 15 years under this previous government. As a result of that, we'll see some new barns being built and the regulations have been modernized to make sure that those safety codes are in place, to make sure that every producer has the building permits in place to make sure that its sustainable, and we'll move forward with new barns being built within the province.

Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. Point of Order Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Assiniboia, on a point of order? Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): Yes, Madam Speaker, I–on a point of order. This morning the –some members of the opposition blocked private members' bills dealing with conflict of interest and organ donation, and allowed us not to debate seven bills, six of which happen to come from the member from Assiniboia. I'd just like to give this opportunity for the House leader of the opposition to apologize.

Madam Speaker: I would point out to the member that a point of order has to indicate a breach of a rule or a practice of the House, and what the member was bringing forward was certainly not one of those that I could recognize. So I would indicate that the member does not have a point of order. PETITIONS Access to Health Care Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Direct cuts to front -line health-care services, including the closure of emergency departments, intensive-care units, an urgent -care centre and more are occurring across the province.

(2) These health cuts will drastically red uce the ability of Manitobans to access timely, quality health-care services.

(3) The provincial government made these decisions unilaterally, failing to consult with front-line health -care professionals who provide direct care to patients.

(4) The provi ncial government has had its main focus on the bottom line and failed to present a clear and detailed plan for the public health- care system that will actually improve and optimize patient care for Manitobans. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

256 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 30, 2017

(1) To urge the provincial government to reverse the cuts and closures that negatively impact patients' ability to access timely, quality health care.

(2) To urge the provincial government to make real investments in Manitoba's public he alth-care system that will provide a direct benefit to patients, such as: increasing access to primary care, the development of a provincial health human resource plan, increasingly –increasing publicly funded personal -care homes across Manitoba and increasing the efficiencies of diagnostic testing in Manitoba's health facilities.

This petition is signed by Natasha Ross, Alyssa Momen, Sheri MacIntyre, and many other Manitobans. * (14:30) Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read, they are deemed to be received by the House. Mr. James Allum (Fort Garry-Riverview): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And t he background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Direct cuts to front -line health-care services, including the closure of emergency departments, intensive-care units, an urgent -care centre and more, are occurring across the province.

(2) These health cuts will drastically reduce the ability of Manitobans to access timely, quali ty health-care services.

(3) The provincial government made these decisions unilaterally, failing to consult with front- line health -care professionals who provide direct care to patients.

(4) The provincial government has had its main focus on the bottom line and failed to present a clear and detailed plan for the public health- care system that will actually improve and optimize patient care for Manitobans.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: First, to urge the provincial government to reverse the cuts and closures that negatively impact patients' ability to access timely, quality health care, And second, t o urge the provincial government to make real investments in Manitoba's public health-care system that will provide a direct benefit to patients, such as: increasing access to primary care, the development of a provincial health human resource plan, increasing publicly funded personal-care homes across Manitoba and increasing the efficiencies of diagnostic testing in Manitoba 's health facilities.

This petition is s igned by Megan McKenzie, Herman Dyck, Patricia Tripp and many other Manitobans. Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And t he background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Direct cuts to front -line health-care services, including the closure of emergency departments, intensive-care units, an urgent -care centre and more, are occurring across the province.

(2) These health cuts will drastica lly reduce the ability of Manitobans to access timely, quality health-care services.

(3) The provincial government made these decisions unilaterally, failing to consult with front-line health -care professionals who provide direct care to patients.

(4) The provincial government has had its main focus on the bottom line and failed to present a clear and detailed plan for the public health- care system that will actually improve and optimize patient care for Manitobans. We petition the Legislative Assembly o f Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to reverse the cuts and closures that negatively impact patients' ability to access timely, quality health care.

(2) To urge the provincial government to make real investments in Manitoba's public health -care system that will provide a direct benefit to patients, such as: increasing access to primary care, the development of a provincial health human resource plan, increasing publicly funded personal-care homes across Manitoba and increasing the efficiencies of diagnostic testing in Manitoba's health facilities. This petition, Madam Speaker, is s igned by many Manitobans. Thank you.

November 30, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 257 Mr. Ted Marcelino (Tyndall Park): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And t he background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Direct cuts to front -line health-care services, including the closure of emergency departments, intensive-care units, an urgent -care centre and more, are occurring across the province.

(2) These health cu ts will drastically reduce the ability of Manitobans to access timely, quality health-care services.

(3) The provincial government made these decisions unilaterally, failing to consult with front-line health -care professionals who provide direct care to patients.

(4) The provincial government has had its main focus on the bottom line and failed to present a clear and detailed plan for the public health- care system that will actually improve and optimize patient care for Manitobans. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to reverse the cuts and closures that negatively impact patients' ability to access timely, quality health care.

(2) To urge the provincial government to make real investments i n Manitoba's public health -care system that will provide a direct benefit to patients, such as: increasing access to primary care, the development of a provincial health human resource plan, increasing publicly funded personal-care homes across Manitoba an d increasing the efficiencies of diagnostic testing in Manitoba's health facilities. This petition was signed by many, many Manitobans. Thank you. Ms. Flor Marcelino (Logan): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Direct cuts to front -line health-care services, including the closure of emergency departments, intensive-care units, an urgent -care centre and more are occurring across the province.

(2) These h ealth cuts will drastically reduce the ability of Manitobans to access timely, quality health-care services.

(3) The provincial government made these decisions unilaterally, failing to consult with front-line health -care professionals who provide direct care to patients.

(4) The provincial government has had its main focus on the bottom line and failed to present a clear and detailed plan for the public health- care system that will actually improve and optimize patient care for Manitobans. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to reverse the cuts and closures that negatively impact patients' ability to access timely, quality health care.

(2) To urge the provincial government to make real inv estments in Manitoba's public health -care system that will provide a direct benefit to patients, such as: increasing access to primary care, the development of a provincial health human resource plan, increasing publicly funded personal-care homes across Manitoba and increasing the efficiencies of diagnostic testing in Manitoba's health facilities. Signed by many, many Manitobans. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Rural EMS Services Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition in the Legislative Assembly.

The background to this petition is as follows: The provincial government announced a plan to close 18 EMS stations in Manitoba. The recommendation for the closures was based on a report titled Manitoba E MS System Report issued in March 2013 that used data from 2011 that is no longer relevant. The standard of care for EMS services in Manitoba is a 30- minute response time for 90 per cent of the population, 90 per cent of the time. The information entitle d information pack for rural municipalities stated in 2012 that the 30-minute standard was reached 95.81 per cent of the time and 95.52 per cent in 2015-2016.

258 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 30, 2017 The statistics show that by moving to the proposed systems Manitoba will be receiving worse care. The proposed plan includes the closure of the Grandview EMS station and the building of two new stand-alone EMS stations in Cowan and Gilbert Plains, with no provision of a cost estimate. There is a vacant Manitoba Hydro building in Grandview that w as previously used to store large equipment which could allow for the deployment of ambulances.

In addition to the 39- bed personal-care home in Grandview, the hospital is fully staffed with 18 beds, three full-time doctors, two nurse practitioners and a full complement of support staff, including 24- hour diagnostic services. * (14:40) The Grandview EMS station employs four full-time primary -care or intermediate -care paramedics who routinely provide community education, primary- and/or intermediate-care support to emergency medical responders and other paramedicine services to assist the staff of Grandview hospital.

The Grandvi ew EMS services 1,500 people within the municipal boundary, Tootinaowaziibeeng First Nation, the southern half of the Duck Mountain Provincial Park and other outlying areas, including the communities of Gilbert Plains and Ashville. The Grandview ambulanc e responded to 680 calls in 2014, 571 calls in 2015 and 673 calls in 2016. We petition the Legislative Assembly as follows: To urge the Mi nister of Health, Seniors and Active Living to provide an additional 12 primary-care or intermediate- care param edics to facilitate 24-7 coverage at the Grandview ambulance station.

To urge the Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living to provide a second ambulance vehicle at the Grandview station to allow for deployment to designated geo-positions. To urge that the Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living make use of the vacant Manitoba Hydro building as a garage for the two ambulance vehicles. To urge that the Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living install a computer-based system in the ambulance vehicles to facilitate geo -positioning and dynamic and flexible deployment to any area covered in the proposed plan in this region. Signed by Walter [phonetic] Kuzyk, G.D.

Elliott, Sandra Elliott and many others. Access to Health Care Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Direct cuts to front -line health service– health-care services, including the closure of emergency departments, intensive -care units and urgent-care centres and more , are occurring across this province. These health cuts will drastically reduce the ability of Manitobans to access timely, quality health-care services.

(3) The provincial government made these direct–these decisions unilaterally, failing to consult with front-line health-care professionals who provide direct care to patients.

(4) The provincial government has had its main focus on the bottom line and failed to present a clear and detailed plan for the public health -care system that will actually improve and optimize patient care for Manitobans. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to reverse the cuts and closures that negatively impact patients' ability to access timely, quality health care.

(2) To urge the provincial government to make real investments in Manitoba's public health system that will provide a direct benefit to patients, such as: increasing access to prim ary care, the development of a provincial health human resource plan, increasing publicly funded personal-care homes across Manitoba and increasing the efficiencies of diagnostic testing in Manitoba's health facilities. Signed by Brenda Sabodiern [phoneti c], Mary-Ann Victoria [phonetic], Shelley Lamothe and many other Manitobans.

November 30, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 259 Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Direct cuts to front-line health-care services, including the closure of emergency departments, intensive-care units, an urgent -care centre and more, are coming across the province.

(2) These health cuts will drastically reduce the ability of Manitobans to access timely, quality health-care services.

(3) The provincial government made these decisions unilaterally, failing to consult with front-line health -care professionals who provide direct care to patients.

(4) The provincial government has had its main focus on the bottom line and failed to present a clear and detailed plan for a public health-care system that will actually improve and optimize patient care for Manitobans. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to reverse the cuts and closures that negatively impact patients' ability to access timely, quality health care.

(2) To urge the provincial government to make real investments in Manitoba's public health -care system that will provide a direct benefit to patients, such as: increasing access to pr imary care, the development of provincial health human resource plan, increasing publicly funded personal-care homes across Manitoba and increasing the efficiencies of diagnostic testing in Manitoba's health facilities. And this petition has been signed by Marcel Wanlin, Wendy Rolfe, Debbie Jones and many other Manitobans. Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background of this petition is as follows:

(1) Direct cuts to front -line health-care services, including the closure of emergency departments, intensive-care units, an urgent -care centre and more are occurring across the province.

(2) These health cuts will drastically reduce the ability of Manitobans to access timely, quality health-care services.

(3) The provincial government made these decisions unilaterally, failing to consult with front-line health -care professionals who provide direct care to patients.

(4) The provincial government has had its main focus on the bottom line and failed to present a clear and detailed plan for the public health- care system that will actually improve and optimize patient care for Manitobans. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to reverse the cuts and closures that negatively impact patients' ability to access timely, quality health care.

(2) To urge the provincial government to make real investments in Manitoba's health -care system that will provide a direct benefit to patients, such as: increasing access to primary care, the development of a provincial health human resource plan, increasing publicly funded personal -care homes across Manitoba and increasing the efficiencies of diagnostic testing in Manitoba health facilities. And this petition is signed by many, many Manitobans. Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns ): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Direct cuts to front -line health-care services, including the closure of emergency departments, intensive-care units and an urgent -care centre and more are occurring across the province.

(2) These health cuts will drastically reduce the ability of Manitobans to access timely, quality health-care services.

(3) The provincial government made these decisions unilaterally, failing to consult with front-line health -care professionals who provide direct care to patients.

(4) The provincial government has had its main focus on the bottom line and failed to present a clear and detailed plan for the public health- care system that will actually improve and optimize patient care for Manitobans. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

260 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 30, 2017

(1) To urge the provincial government to reverse the cuts and closures that negatively impact patients' ability to access timely, quality health care.

(2) To urge the provincial government to make real investments in Manitoba's public health -care system that will provide a direct benefit to patients, such as: increasing access to primary care, the development of a provincial health human resource plan, increasing publicly funded personal-care homes across Manitoba and increasing the efficiencies of diagnostic testing in Manitoba's health facilities. Signed by Darian Smith, Bill Pritchett and Justin Ross and many, many more Manitobans. Mr. Greg Selinger (St. Boniface): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

And the background to this petition is as follows: Direct cuts to front- line health -care services, including the closure of emergency departments, intensive-care units, an urgent -care centre and more are occurring across the province. These health cuts will drastically reduce the ability of Manitobans to access timely, quality health-care services.

The provincial government made these decisions unilaterally, failing to consult with front -line health-care professionals who provide direct care to patients. * (14:50) The provincial government has had its main focus on the bottom line and failed to present a clear and detailed plan for the public health- care system that will actually improve and optimize patient care for Manitobans. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to reverse the cuts and closures that negatively impact patients' ability to access timely, quality health care.

To urge the provincial government to make real investments in Manitoba's public health -care system that will provide a direct benefit to patients, such as: increasing access to primary care, the development of a provincial health human resource plan, increasing publicly funded personal-care homes across Manitoba and increasing the efficiencies of diagnostic testing in Manitoba's health facilities. Signed by Colette Carriere, Michele Siemens, Michely Berger and many, many other Manitobans. Thank you. Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

And the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Direct cuts to front -line health-care services, including the closure of emergency departments, intensive-care units, an urgent -care centre and more, are occurring across the province.

(2) These health cuts will drastically reduce the ability of Manitobans to access timely, quality health-care services.

(3) The provincial government made these decisions unilaterally, failing to consult with front-line health -care profession als who provide direct care to patients.

(4) The provincial government has had its main focus on the bottom line and failed to present a clear and detailed plan for the public health- care system that will actually improve and optimize patient care for Manitobans. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to reverse the cuts and closures that negatively impact patients' ability to access timely, quality health care and,

(2) To urge the provincial government to make real investments in Manitoba's public health -care system that will provide a direct benefit to patients, such as: increasing access to primary care, the development of a provincial health human resource plan, increasing publicly funded personal-care homes across Manitoba and increasing the efficiencies of diagnostic testing in Manitoba's health facilities. And this petition has been signed by many Manitobans. GRIEVANCES Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I rise today to raise a major grievance.

As is becoming, or is, apparent, the government has continued to operate in an unconstitutional manner. Every member of a legislative assembly or parliament in the Commonwealth has the ability to reflect their constituents and that political parties are actually not

November 30, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 261 recognized in the pure sense of the word in the Chamber. In fact, I'd just like to quote the Attorney General (Mrs. Stefanson) and say –and it says this: Our position is that the judgment ought to be entered, and the provisions with respect to floor crossing ought to be struck down as unconstitutional. Madam Speaker, I agree. That was –this is a statement made, and I will table it, by the member from Tuxedo and the Deputy Premier (Mrs. Stefanson). And it was, I understand, made several times in that time frame.

The reason why this is important is the government, rather than using legislative time and just recognizing that there isn't any standing for this provision in the Manitoba legislative act, th ey could just simply agree with the –with my court application and be done with it. And that would be the right thing to do. It's the constitutional thing to do and it would save a lot of time and money, but the government has not done that, even though the Attorney General has said it's unconstitutional and everyone agrees it's unconstitutional. Madam Speaker, we have to act within the constitution.

There are no–it is –even this Chamber cannot take away the constitutional rights of the people who are in the Chamber or the people who elect the people in the Chamber, and that is exactly what exists in Manitoba. You can't –if something is unconstitutional, it's unconstitutional. Nothing can change that. And of all the places in Manitoba, this place should fall within the constitution and take the constitution seriously, and everybody knows –everybody knows –that

section 52.3.1 of the Manitoba Legislative Assembly Act is unconstitutional. Madam Speaker, as an independent member, the rights and abilities, in many ways, are diminished dramatically, and we just need to look at question period. It's more likely that a member of the gallery is to ask a question in question period than myself. We had–and independents aren't even treated equally amongst independents. We have independents who ask three questions a day who happen to be associated with the Liberal Party, and we have me, who doesn't ask any questions or the member from The Maples, who gets a question in a blue moon.

And there's funding is sues and raising money and staffing, but that –all that aside, our system depends on the ability of MLAs to represent their constituents and constituents to have a reasonable expectation that MLAs will represent them. By the government not simply agreeing w ith the court application, it further degrades the constitutional principles and is not consistent with our parliamentary tradition. So, in this –Madam Speaker, since I only have a few minutes left I am going to quickly table some documents. The first document I'm tabling is Queen's Bench, The Legislative Assembly Act.

This is the– in regard to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms between Steven John Fletcher and the government of Manitoba: this is an affidavit. The next document is regarding Manitoba legislative act and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, Steven John Fletcher versus the government of Manitoba, notice of application; the Queen's Bench, Steven John Fletcher and the government of Manitoba, application brief. * (15:00) I'm going to submit some learned articles as well. This one is called modest steps forward– reform–a review of post -Emerson initiatives to curtail floor crossing.

I have a series of newspaper articles that I would like to table, as well. This one is from the Winnipeg Free Pres s: Down but not out, MLA fighting for rule change. I have a very good editorial by the–from The Globe and Mail. It says it shouldn't be against the law to change parties, and they are right. The Globe and Mail got it right. Okay. Let's go to the next. This is from Maclean's magazine and it discusses why it is necessary for politicians to have the freedom of association and expression. The next

article talks more about floor crossings. From The Canadian Press: Fletcher asks court to strike down ban on floor crossing. Well, it's more than floor–like, that's just a colloquial term, Madam Speaker. I'm asking for the legislative act of Manitoba to be constitutional. And it go– and the implications are far deeper than the simple colloquial term.

I am tabling t he fact that the government had an opportunity to make this all go away, and in spite of the minister's public comments, the government decided to fight the court application two days before this–or the previous session started, which led to the December 18th, 2017 date for a court hearing. And this is not like it's coming out of the blue. I'm introducing an

article that speaks to the fact that this has been on the table since early July. This is an

article from The Canadian Press, July 4th, 2017. I'm als o providing an opinion from Gange Collins Holloway, Barristers and Solicitors on the

262 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 30, 2017 merits of what I am trying to do here and why the government is wrong in its position and how –and why the legislation must pass. I'm also going to table to the Chamber c hanges in parliamentary affiliation. This is a document made–developed by the Library of Parliament in October 2016. Madam Speaker, I know the member from Tuxedo. She's a good person– Madam Speaker: Sorry. The member's time has expired.

I would just point out to the member and remind him that it is a breach of our rules to mention a person's name in the Legislature, even if they're reading off a document. And the member read off a number of his documents where his name was actually on the documents, and he read the name of himself. And that is disallowed by the rules. So just a reminder for members. ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Cliff Cullen (Government House Leader): First of all, Madam Speaker, on House business. Madam Speaker: On House business. Mr. Cullen : Yes.

I would like to announce that the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development will meet on Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 6 p.m. to consider the following report: the Annual Report of the Manitoba Poverty Reduction and Social Inclusion Strategy (ALL Aboard) for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2017.

Madam Speaker: It has been announced by the honourable Government House Leader that the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development will meet on Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 6 p.m. to consider the following report: Annual Report of the Manitoba Poverty Reduction and Social Inclusion Strategy (ALL Aboard) for the fi scal year ending March 31st, 2017. The honourable Official Opposition House Leader. [interjection] Pardon me? An Honourable Member: Sorry, Madam Speaker, you were cutting out there. Madam Speaker: Pardon me? An Honourable Member: You were cutting out through the mic system.

Madam Speaker: I would indicate that it will be available in Hansard as to the announcement of a meeting on December 4th at 6:00 on the ALL Aboard strategy, and it would be an annual report. So, the honourable Official Opposition House Leader. Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (Official Opposition House Leader): Madam Speaker, pursuant to rule 33(8), I am announcing that the private member's resolution to be considered on the next Thursday of private members' business will be one put forward by the honourable member for Fort Garry -Riverview (Mr. Allum).

The title of the resolution is Restore Public Transit Funding for Municipalities. Madam Speaker: It has been announced by the honourable Official Opposition House Leader that the private member's resolution to be considered on the next Thursday of private members' business will be one put forward by the honourable member for Fort Garry -Riverview. The title of the resolution is Restore Public Transit Funding for Municipalities. * * * Mr. Cullen: Madam Speaker, would you please call Bill 4 and Bill 9?

Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the House will consider second readings of Bill 4 and Bill 9 this afternoon. SECOND READINGS Bill 4–The Legislative Assembly Amendment Act (Member Changing Parties) Madam Speaker: So second reading of Bill 4, The Legislative Assembly Amendment Act (Member Changing Parties). Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Crown Services (Mr. Cullen), that Bill 4, The Legislative Assembly Amendment Act (Member Changing Parties); Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'Assemblée législative (adhésion à un autre parti), be

November 30, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 263 now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. Motion presented. Mrs. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, the freedom of a member of the Legislative Assembly to caucus with any party that wishes to have him or her as a member is a time -honoured tradition in our Westminster parliamentary democracy. The previous NDP government undermined this tradition with legislation that was drafted in response to political news of the day.

Rather than focus on issues that matter to Manitoba taxpayers, Madam Speaker, the previous NDP government decided to implement a floor-crossing ban in 2006 in an attempt to capitalize on some controversial–some controversies that were taking place in the federal parliament. Madam Speaker, our Progressive Conservative team knows that voters will judge each member of this House by what we do for our constituents and for our communities rather than for our respective political parties. Under Bill 4, the verdict we will all receive from the taxpayers of this p rovince will be rendered in the next election.

And that is how our system was meant to be and to work. Madam Speaker, the floor -crossing ban is an unparliamentary and unworkable policy that was only passed because of the partisan political calculations o f the previous NDP government. Ending this policy is something that we must do out of principle so that we can restore parliamentary traditions to this House while saving taxpayers thousands in potential legal expenses defending the floor-crossing ban whic h should never have been introduced in the first place. We look forward, Madam Speaker, to the swift passage of this bill.

Further delay of this bill could cost taxpayers thousands of dollars in unnecessary legal fees. We hope that members opposite respect taxpayers, and we look forward to them supporting the speedy passage of this bill. Madam Speaker, this will allow us to get on with our robust legislative agenda that will help fix our finances, repair our services and rebuild our economy. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Questions Madam Speaker: A question period of up to 15 minutes will be held.

Questions may be addressed to the minister by any member in the following sequence: first question by the official opposition critic or designate, subsequent questions asked by critics or designates from other recognized opposition pa rties, subsequent questions asked by each independent member, remaining questions asked by any opposition members, and no question or answer shall exceed 45 seconds. Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St.

Johns): I would like to ask the minister how her government plans on ensuring that voters' wishes are respected in this new bill in respect of who they actually voted for in the provincial 2016 election * (15:10) Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I want to thank the member for the question. And we believe that each member of this House will be judged by his or her constituents at the next election based on the results they deliver for their constituencies, Madam Speaker. That is how our system is intended to work.

The changes this –that this legislation will make will respect and honour those traditions. Mr. James Allum (Fort Garry -Riverview): Can the minister inform the House how will the integrity of government be respected if members can come and go from political parties as they please? Mrs. Stefanson : Well, again, Madam Speaker, members of the Legislative Assembly are elected by their constituents in their various constituencies.

We respect and honour that tradition, and we know that in the subsequent elections the voters will have that opportunity to decide whether or not the particular MLA has been doing their job, and we respect and honour those traditions as part of our Westminster parliamentary tradition. Ms. Fontaine: How does the member's government plan on maintaining the integrity of the democratic process if this bill is actually passed and is in contravention of those individuals who cast their ballots for particular parties in the last 2016 election? Mrs. Stefanson: I want to thank the member again for that question.

We believe that the floor -crossing ban is unparliamentary. It goes against again the

264 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 30, 2017 Westminster parliamentary traditions that we uphold in our country, and we believe that, again, the constituents will have the opportunity to either vote a member back in or not vote them back in based on those traditions, and we respect the constituents and indeed all Manitobans, Madam Speaker. Mr. Allum: You know, I'm having a little bit of difficulty following the minister's answers, primarily because this bill has appeared out of almost nowhere.

I don't remember her knocking on doors asking anyone if this is something she was –they would support in her election campaign. I don't remember her talking about it at any other point in our–my time in the House, and so it seems like there's a bit of a flip-flop going on here. So how –will the government decide in a year's time that the y once again do not support floor crossing and then we'll have to go through this building again? Mrs. Stefanson: I don't know where to begin with that, Madam Speaker. You know, the members opposite went door to door in the election, knocked on those door s.

They talked to Manitobans, they promised not to raise taxes and they made the choice without consulting with Manitobans to increase the PST. So those are the members in this Chamber that are not respecting consultation processes with constituents. That is not the approach that we take on this side of the House, Madam Speaker. We had a very robust prebudget consultation where we reached out to more than 60,000 Manitobans. That's our approach as opposed to members opposite who don't like to consult with Manitobans. Ms.

Fontaine: We know, everybody in this House knows, that we do already have a low percentage of voters, not only here in Manitoba but certainly across Canada, and part of that is that there is a disconnect often in respect of people –voters seeing themselves reflected in here and having faith in this democratic process. So how–is it the government's plan with this bill to actually deter people–Manitobans from voting in the next 2020 election? Mrs. Stefanson : Again, I will mention that each member will be judged based on the results that they produce for their constituents in the next election.

That's how our system works, that's the way it should be and that's the way it's meant to be. The reason we're bringing this forward today is because this is an important issue in Manitobans. This is an unparliamentary procedure that was introduced by the previous NDP government back in 2006. We believe that this particular floor -crossing ban should be repealed. It's the right thing to do. It will also, if passed today and through our system, be able to save thousands of taxpayer dollars. So I hope the members opposite will get on board and ensure that we do the right thing for the taxpayers of our province. Mr.

Matt Wiebe (Concordia): The minister says this is an important issue. I would imagine it probably is. I know every time we talk about health care in this House, we talk about the cuts that are being undertaken in all areas of health care. I see backbenchers on the opposite side s quirming in their seats. So I would imagine backbenchers from her party are looking to jump ship. I'm wondering if she could provide a list of members that she anticipates will join our side once this bill is rammed through by this government? Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs.

Stefanson : Madam Speaker, I know that members opposite, they've had some challenges within their own caucus. We know that they're somewhat divided within their caucus and maybe they have a fear of this legislation actually passing for fear that they may lose some of their caucus members. But we 'd–do believe, Madam Speaker, that this is the right thing to do. This is respecting our parliamentary traditions and we believe the floor-crossing ban, as it did stand before, was unparliamentary, and we ask members opposite to get on board. Hon.

Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): This bill consists of four words, and I wonder, after an appropriate period of time, if the minister would ask for unanimous consent to move the clock forward–or not the clock forward, but to get the bill out of the way. Failing that, I wonder if the minister would simply consider agreeing with my court application, so we can move on and get rid of this bill one way or the other–or this legislation. Mrs. Stefanson : I'm not going to discuss the specifics of a case that's before our courts, Madam Speaker, but what I will say is that if the member

November 30, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 265 opposite wants to ask for that kind of leave, he has the ability to do so in this House. Tha t's his prerogative as an MLA in this Chamber. We respect the parliamentary traditions within this Chamber and we know that we should be passing this bill. So we hope that all members of this House will do the right thing for the sake of the taxpayers of our province and pass this bill. Mr. Allum: I find it hard to understand how the Attorney General (Mrs. Stefanson) thinks this is going to save money unless she doesn't want to have a by -election.

I suppose that's what she's saying. That's how it'll save money. Well, I can advise her that a dictatorship, then, would be really cheap, if that's the way that she wants to go. But she –could she tell this –maybe that's the whole what they're after here. I can't speak to that. But can she tell us, how does the re moval of the ban on floor -crossing improve the representation of constituencies if voters can now see an MLA they voted in under certain promises completely change sides to a new party? Mrs.

Stefanson : Well, Madam Speaker, the floor-crossing ban is unparl iamentary which is why we are repealing it today. Madam Speaker, continuing to defend this floor-crossing ban in court would cost Manitoba taxpayers thousands of dollars. That's why by appealing this legislation, we think it's the right thing to do. It's unparliamentary legislation. We want to bring back the traditions of the Westminster parliamentary system in this Chamber and that's why we're encouraging members opposite to support us today. Ms.

Fontaine: Is the minister concerned with public approval of this bill considering the public outcry after federal instances of floor crossing that we've seen in times past? * (15:20) Mrs. Stefanson : I thank the member for the question. And I think what members of the public and Manitobans respect is our parliamentary system and our parliamentary traditions. And I think that this floor-crossing ban is unparliamentary. It's why we're bringing it forward to repeal this particular

section of this area, and we hope that members opposite will support us. We hope that they will –they do the right thing for taxpayers and ensure that we do the right thing for Manitobans. Mr. Fletcher: There's a–at present, there's a battery– probably a entire army of government lawyers preparing a case against what we all want, which is to return to the princi ples that the Attorney General has stated. A way to avoid taxpayer expense is simply to agree with the application to the courts, and we all move on. Will the government simply agree to the court application? Mrs.

Stefanson : The member opposite knows it would be inappropriate for me to comment on a case that's before our courts right now, but what I will say is that there is an opportunity for us right now as members of this Manitoba Legislature to pass this bill forward today to ensure its speedy passage to help alleviate the situation. This is an unparliamentary situation, it's –on the floor-crossing ban, and we want to ensure that we restore our parliamentary traditions in this Chamber. Mr. Allum: I'm not sure a bout the Attorney General's answer there, but there you go.

I mean, if she had problems with the member from Assiniboia in her caucus, the right thing, of course, would–for all of them to try to work it out. And instead they just gave him the boot. But this is an important question because it goes kind of to the heart of it, but does the minister believe it is right for sitting governments to use Cabinet positions to entice members to cross the floor? Does she think that that's a good idea? Mrs. Stefanson: You know, the member opposite – I know that they're having challenges within their caucus.

I know that there's many different fragmented caucuses within their own caucus, Madam Speaker. We know that they probably don't want to support this piece of legislation for fear that they may lose some of their own members to another party. We're not concerned about that. What we're concerned about is doing the right thing for Manitoba taxpayers. That's why we're encouraging all members of this House to support this piece of legislation today. Mr.

Mohinder Saran (The Maples): Does not the minister think that it will advance democracy and reduce dictatorship by the leaders and also reduce the discrimination of one group against the other? I think

266 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 30, 2017 it will give more flexibility. What the minister think about that? Mrs. Stefanson: I want to thank the member for that question. Of course, we have respect for all Manitobans. We have respect for all the MLAs in this House. That's why we want, and that's why we're bringing forward, this legislation today. This floor -crossing ban is unparliamentary. It is not within the tradition of a Westminster parliamentary democracy, Madam Speaker. Manitobans elected us by respecting our parliamentary traditions, and that's what we want to restore.

That's exactly what we're doing through this legislation. So we hope that all members of this Chamber will support this and pass this through today. Mr. Fletcher: Madam Speaker, our position–this is from another member, the member from Tuxedo: our position is that the judgment ought to be entered and provisions with respect of floor crossing should be struck down as unconstitutional. Our government has already stated our view th at the legislation is unconstitutional. And twice in a written statement, the government has said it's unconstitutional.

Will the government simply take the fastest, most cost-effective and efficient path and agree with my court application– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Mrs. Stefanson: Thank the member for the question. Again, I'm not going to discuss specifics of a case, but what I will say, Madam Speaker, is that we do know that this floor -crossing ban is unparliamentary. I t's also going to cost taxpayers thousands of dollars in potential legal fees. So what we want to do is ensure that we do what's in the right and the best interest for Manitoba taxpayers.

We have respect for our parliamentary traditions, Madam Speaker. L et's do the right thing today and pass this bill through to committee. Debate Madam Speaker: The time for question–this question period has ended. The floor is open for debate. Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns ): I think it's fitting in discussing a bill in respect of floor crossing and–to put on the record how proud I am to have been elected the NDP MLA for St. Johns. I think it's really important to understand that when we went –when all of us went door to door during the 2016 election, we went door to door under a particular political banner.

And that was what – when we went to go make our pitches and introduce ourselves and get to know different Manitoba families no matter where we were across Manitoba, including their children and their pets –and I'm sure most of us in the House were invited in, you know, offered tea and meal and treats. I'm sure all of us had those experiences. It was

an act of creating family, as I often talk about, when people invite you into their home and you come there with your particular party's 'camplaign' platform, your particular party's ideology, your particular party's spirit the way it's manifested. And that is what those particular Manitobans that went, that took the time out of thei r day–their busy days –that took the time to go and vote for you. That was who they voted for. Mr. Doyle Piwniuk, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair So I think it's important to recognize and to have it as a part of the official record that I recognize that: that as the MLA for St.

Johns I recognize how important it is to honour and acknowledge each of those St. Johns voters who voted for me. And they voted for me because I am a member of the NDP. I am a member of a party that understands the need to fight for families, to fight for social justice, to fight for the environment and to do our public service in respect of those. And I –so I think that, you know, it is –it’s not right when we use the language that this is unparliamentary to have this piece of legisl ation on the records. In fact, it actually builds and respects Manitoba voters. That's who they voted for.

And, you know, I think it's really important to also put on the record that, as my member for Fort Garry-Riverview (Mr. Allum) just noted only a couple of minutes ago, this didn't come up anywhere. I don't remember this, unless I missed it. Maybe I missed it at some of the community debates or in the Premier's (Mr. Pallister) platform –although there wasn't really much that was disseminated during the election on what his platform was and what was put on the record–certainly, he's deviated from that. So, I mean, I don't remember this coming up at all.

And so, then, what is the genesis for bill –this new bill, Bill 4, that the government is so anxious to

November 30, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 267 receive royal assent? And why is that? Well, that is because the members opposite can't get along with certain members in their caucus or a particular member in their caucus. Let me be fair, let me correct that: a particular member of their caucus. I – and, I mean, I'm not sure –I mean, I can't imagine what the reasons for that would be. * (15:30) It will be interesting to find out what some of the reasons why that member was booted out of caucus.

Again, I mean, by all accounts I can't even imagine why there would be some issues in the caucus with particular members of their caucus, but that is why, you know, the previous bill, Bill 40, and now Bill 4, the government's so anxious to get passed because they want to kind of be done with whatever and they want to just kind of, you know, wipe their hands and move on.

And so I think it's kind of disinge nuous when the minister sits up here and says that this is unparliamentary and we're, you know, all of these, you know, justifying reasons for this bill when, really, let's be honest here, and let's be candid, it really is just to do away with a member th at they're having particular issues with. But the bottom line is is that the voters of Tuxedo voted for a PC Conservative, and it just happened to be that particular member. I don't know why the members opposite are clapping.

They kicked him out, and now they're trying to –they're trying to put a bill, get royal assent on a bill so that member, potentially, will join another party. Like, I don't understand–I don't understand. And I know that the minister earlier, and let me just put this on the record her e, that the minister earlier stated that there were members on this side of the House that want to go and join other parties in this House. Certainly that's not the case.

Like, none of us on this side of the House are going to be joining that sinking ship over there because, I mean, let's be perfectly blunt here, we –and we've said it, there's several of us on this side of the House that have said it, this is a one-term–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Order. Ms. Fontaine: –government. It's an abs olute one - term government and none of us will be jumping ship to join that party, I can certainly tell you. And that's good, because we'll all still be MLAs in 2020 serving Manitobans and serving the Manitoba voters who voted for us.

So, again, I think t hat it's important to realize that, again, I know –I'm not sure if the members opposite get this. I mean, I would hope that they would, but there –you know, the ballot –our democratic process that, in fact, countries around the world would love to be able t o have our democratic process. There are people that actually lose their lives to be able to participate in what we have here and that is a sacred trust.

It's a belief and a trust in our democratic process that who we cast our ballot for is the person that we understand is more in line with our ideology and our ways of thinking, and so to imagine that all of a sudden we're going to do away with that trust because we're going to do away with the legislation that says you cannot cross the floor just because y ou cannot get along with a member of your caucus, and a member of your caucus causes you problems with some of the bills that you're trying to ram down the throats of Manitoba voters.

Like, I think the members opposite have to understand it is a sacred t rust, and they are breaking that trust and they are disrespecting the voters of Tuxedo. And I know that they laugh–I know that they laugh; it's okay. They laugh at all of these real serious things. They seem to think that this is a joke. They seem to think that their egregious health cuts are a joke. They seem to think that, you know, the job losses in the health -care system is a joke, so, I mean, you know, I don't know why I would be surprised that they would see that this is – [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Order. Ms.

Fontaine: –a joke. So, you know, again, I think, you know, this legislation is nothing more than the Premier's (Mr. Pallister) attempt to end a really embarrassing moment in this House in respect of his relationship with a pa rticular member and a potential embarrassing court challenge. And, certainly, I think that there's a lot–it's disappointing that this government is more eager to introduce their legislation to end this feud than acting accordingly and introducing legislati on that ensures Manitoba is in line with the federal government's changes to paternal leave.

Like, the government is more concerned with doing away with the member for Tuxedo than actually dealing with simple legislative changes, dealing with paternity leave. So, I mean, it really

268 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 30, 2017 does highlight where the Premier's (Mr. Pallister) concerns are and where the Premier's priorities are. So I think that, you know, we saw today that, I don't know, maybe, one of the examples of the way the member for Tuxedo operated in their caucus. I don't know–oh. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Ms. Fontaine: Assiniboia. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Ms. Fontaine: Deputy Speaker, please, please let me– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Ms. Fontaine: Oh, my God, please let me officially– oh, geez. An Honourable Member: Point of order. Point of Order Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Point of order of the honourable member for Assiniboia. Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I just want to raise a point of order. I would like to thank the NDP House leader for the compliment, both ways. Thank you. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Anyone else on the point of order? Mr. Andrew Micklefield (Acting Government House Leader): That is not a point of order. Mr. Deputy Speaker: It is –I just want to let the House know that it is not a point of order, but I'll have the honourable member for St. Johns continue with her speech. * * * Ms.

Fontaine: Let me just put on the record how – and let me officially apologize to the member for Tuxedo (Mrs. Stefanson). I don't know –I think I was thinking about her in respect of being the minister and got confused. Certainly, I wouldn't want to put that on the official record that there were issues with the member for Tuxedo. Let me correct that, please, that the issues seem to be with the member from Assiniboia in respect of this bill– An Honourable Member: On a point of order. Point of Order Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Assiniboia, on a point of order. Mr.

Fletcher: If the memb er is apologizing to one, she should apologize to all. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The deputy government House leader, on the same point of order? Mr. Micklefield: It's not a point of order. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Just want to call that it's not a point of order, but we'll continue with the speech on– from the member for St. Johns and we'll get her to continue. * * * Ms. Fontaine: Sorry for that. Let's get focused here. So I apologize for that again. So–and specifi cally to the member for Tuxedo I apologize.

So I do want to just reflect on a little bit of this morning and the fact that the member for Assiniboia wouldn't grant leave on a bill to discuss paternity leave in this province which, you know, I think is perhaps a little bit illustrative of maybe some of the issues that the government caucus had in dealing with the member for Assiniboia. But, certainly, I don't think that it warrants, then, a bill that would get, you know, put in place legislation that folks can– An Honourable Member: On a point of order. Point of Order Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Assiniboia, on a point of order. Mr.

Fletcher: I wish the House leader would focus on the issue at hand, and I would also point out that her and her group denied leave on important issues such as organ donation and conflict of interest reform. So please–I hope the member can please get through this without making so many mistakes. Thank you. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Okay, for the member from Assiniboia, it is not necessarily a point of order, what he's referred to. So we'll continue with the debate, and I'll have the member for St. Johns to continue. * * * * (15:40) Ms.

Fontaine: Well, as everybody in this House knows, there's nothing more that I love than being mansplained how to do my job, particularly by a member that got kicked out of his own caucus, and now that his own caucus, his own brothers and

November 30, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 269 sisters, are so intent on making sure that he never comes back to that side of the House. So I don't need to be told how to do my job as an ML A in this House. [interjection] Point of Order Mr. Deputy Speaker: The member for Assiniboia , on a same–on a point of order. Mr. Fletcher: On a matter of privilege. MATTER OF PRIVILEGE Mr. Deputy Speaker: On a matter of privilege. The honourable member for Assiniboia, on a matter of privilege. Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): In this place, we–there is a level of decorum.

We have had situations where people have apologized and withdrawn for the record for much less than what that member just said. I take offence to that reference, and it is completely inappropriate. And I don't care what gender you are –male, female, trans, whatever–you can't get away with that kind of language in this place. I demand an apology. Mr. Deputy Spe aker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on the same matter of privilege. Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): Let me just put this on the record.

I will not apologize to the member for Assiniboia for dictating to me, as a woman, how I execute my duties and what I say in this House as an MLA. I will never apologize for that. Mr. Deputy Speaker: I just want to advise the House that we need a moment to consult. I want to thank the –both the member for Assiniboia and the member for St.

Johns on that point of privilege, but I would–I want to read something here that the –on the matter of the privilege raised by the honourable member for Assiniboia, I would like to inform the House that Joseph Maingot advised, on page 254, on the second edition of the Parliamentary Privilege in Canada, that language that 'impungs' the 'integry' of the members would be unparliamentary and a breach of order contrary to the standard orders not–but not be breach of privilege. Therefore, the honourable member does not have a prima facie matter of privilege.

SECOND READINGS (Continued) Bill 4–The Legislative Assembly Amendment Act (Member Changing Parties) (Continued) Debate (Continued) Mr. Deputy Speaker: So we'll continue with the honourable member –the honourable member for Assiniboia. Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): Then I have a point of order, then. Point of Order Mr. Deputy Speaker: On a point of order, the honourable member for Assiniboia. Mr. Fletcher: On a point of order, we've had a member use a very serious term with very serious implications. When this has happened before, the member from River Heights apologized for any misinterpretation.

But this is very clear. It's –and it's against the rules in–I don't have the rules in front of me, but it's definitely against the decorum of this place. Now, the Speaker's trying to improve the decorum in this place, and then we have that kind of action. I mean, it just makes a mockery of the whole system, and you can't just go around defaming people. Please, Mr. Speaker, like, for the –goodness' sakes. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Okay. I want to thank the member for –the member from Assiniboia for the point of order. We will take this under advisement.

We'll consult and–with Hansard, and we'll get back to the member once we –we'll bring a ruling back to the member once we investigate it. * * * Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): So to get on to the business of the day here. So I think again it's also important to put on the record that the Conservative Party supported the original legislation to ban floor crossing when it was passed back in 2006.

So, again, it does go back to my m aterial point in respect of what my colleague here brought forward that we – nowhere did any of us hear that the government would be pursuing this piece of legislation, and again it is predicated upon, you know, one member of their

270 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 30, 2017 caucus not being able to get along and them wanting to just do away with this and allow the member to move on to a different party, certainly not our party, of course. But I do want to just say as well is that their former leader, Hugh McFadyen, said during the bill's debate, and I quote, we support any good idea that comes before the House, regardless of whether we are in government or in opposition.

So that is from their former leader, Hugh McFadyen, who, I think, was, you know, kind of seeing into the future that perhaps this government would renege on something that they supported back in 2006, and a mere, you know, 11 years later now that they're in government, they want to get rid of it. And, you know, again let's situate the context of the floor-crossing ban. It was put in place in respect of voter outrage, public outrage, after the former Prime Minister Stephen Harper convinced Liberal MP David Emerson to cross the floor and become a member of the Cabinet immediately after being elected.

I mean, if there's certainly a case that highlights disrespect to the voters, I think that it would be Mr. Emerson floor –crossing the floor right after an election. And again I spoke earlier about the trust that voters put in us when we go door to door and we spend time with them and we give them their platform and we introduce them to ourselves and what we believe in, it's certainly disrespectful and certainly contravenes our democratic process.

And, I mean, who could forget when–I don't think any of us could forget when Belinda Stronac h decided to cross the floor, and even myself, if you know me, you know that I'm –I watch the news every–I'm addicted to the news –and even me, like, when you saw Peter MacKay, and he was so sad, and he was sitting there in the field with his little dog and his little pitchfork or hoe, whatever he had there, it actually broke my heart, I think. I think women across the country felt like they wanted to nurse his broken heart because Belinda Stronach decided to cross the floor.

I mean, even he was certainly s urprised that she crossed and didn't even tell him. But I think that is indicative of, you know, she didn't last very long, unfortunately, and, you know, I –we could suggest that that's perhaps because it is disrespectful to the voters. And so I, you know, I think for us on this side it is really trying to honour the votes that people cast for us, and that we should honour those votes.

You know, and it's important to note, that actually the last Manitoba member to cross the floor was actually in 1986, and s o since 1986 certainly we have been ensuring that Manitobans' votes are honoured and respected here.

And then, you know, I think that we have to kind of look at this bill in concert of some other bills that the government has recently passed, and certainl y Bill 27, The Elections Amendment Act, is one of them, which I would suggest to you–and actually a lot of social development agencies that work with the most marginalized and vulnerable would suggest –is, you know, an attack on democratic processes for those most vulnerable in ensuring–in legislating more strict or restrictive IDs in casting your votes.

So, certainly, it's voter registration. * (15:50) So I'm not sure what the members opposite or the government has against Manitoba voters, but they certai nly are putting a lot of legislation that impacts directly on Manitoba voters. And, you know, they're not doing enumeration anymore, door-to-door enumeration, and so, you know, I think that we're – slowly, this government is moving to a system where voters a re going to have less access and certainly won't even have a say in who they voted for.

Like, if this government decides that it can't get along with another member and kicks that member out of their caucus, but has opened the door for them to cross the floor, you know, Manitoba voters are out again in respect of somebody that best suits their needs. And, certainly, we know that the next election in 2020, most Manitobans will be voting for the NDP, certainly after what the government has been doing. So, again, I did start by saying that I am very proud to be elected as an NDP MLA for St. Johns.

I certainly won't be crossing the floor anytime soon to any of the parties in this House and certainly not the government. I'm proud to belong to a party that stands up for Manitoba families and is, in this House, every day, fighting against and highlighting, really, these egregious cuts and, really, the legislation, really egregious legislation in the last 18 months, 19 months, what is it, 18 months that they've been– [interjection] Yes, it seems so, so long. But the egregious legislation that this government has brought forward, and Bill 4 is no different. It is disrespecting the voters of Manitoba.

And, actually, you know, I know that the Minister for Justice, the m ember for Tuxedo (Mrs. Stefanson), keeps asking us to support them in

November 30, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 271 respect to Bill 4, but I

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	41-3-8b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	41st 3rd hansardpdf 8b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	c7be6740b02e75839dda61c70907ea6b1dcf74d2

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