Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Statements by Ministers — 29 April 2002 (44th General Assembly, 4th Session, Vol. XLIV No. 14)
2002-04-29
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
April 29, 2002 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLIV No. 14
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burin-Placentia West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS M. HODDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise in the House today to pass along congratulations to several provincial
award winners of the Newfoundland and Labrador Soccer Association, from my
district. Coach of the Year went to Vince Pickett of Marystown. Mr. Pickett was
selected after leading the Canada Games Men's Team to a silver medal in
August, 2001. He had also won a Sports Newfoundland and Labrador Provincial
Coach of the Year recently for his accomplishments in coaching.
Brian Francis of Burin was named Senior Male Player of the Year. Mr. Francis
competed with the Canada Games Team, the Marystown Challenge Cup entry, as well
as the St. Francis Xavier University Atlantic Intercollegiate Team. His stellar
play on the Canada Games Team earned him a selection as top defender and an
all-star selection. He also received second all-star team status while playing
for St. FX.
Judi Kelloway of Burin was named Executive of the Year. Ms Kelloway is the
provincial minor soccer chairperson in the Province and a working member of both
the National Competition Committee and the Female Coaching Committee. She is
also known for her leadership at both local and provincial levels.
On behalf of all Members of the House of Assembly, I congratulate Vince
Pickett, Brian Francis and Judi Kelloway for their accomplishments in soccer,
and I am sure the Burin Peninsula will continue to make its mark in provincial
soccer circles.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Before I recognize the hon. member, I want to welcome to the
House of Assembly today, fourteen Levels I, II and III students from St. John's
Adventist Academy, accompanied by their teacher, Nadine Matthews; chaperones,
Jamie Stagg and Sharna Riddinger, from the District of St. John's Centre.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Last Wednesday evening, I had the opportunity to attend the Annual General
Meeting and Election of Officers of the St. Mary's Bay North Area Development
Association. It was one of the largest meetings that they have had in the past
number of years, with an immense amount of local interest.
The representatives attending were from HRDC, including the guest speaker for
the evening, Mr. Randy Williams, the Avalon Director. There were several
representatives from the Department of Development and Rural Renewal, notably
Paddy O'Keefe. There were representatives there from Loyola Hearn's office,
the Avalon Gateway Regional Economic Board, and many of the local councils and
development agencies were present also.
The St. Mary's Bay North Area Development Association, Mr. Speaker, is a
100 per cent volunteer board. They have received, as most development
associations in the Province have received, no core funding for the past six or
seven years, and have been operating on a fully volunteer basis. When the
treasurer gave the financial statement, Mr. Speaker, the forty volunteers had a
total travel budget last year of $263. That should give us all something to
think about in this House, Mr. Speaker.
Later on that night, Mr. Speaker, HRDC and others were involved in signing
almost $1 million worth of contracts for the St. Mary's Bay North area,
somewhere around $991,000, which included work on Father Duffy's Well on
Salmonier Line and the Rocky River enhancement projects, Mr. Speaker. Re-elected
again for another term were the total executive of the St. Mary's Bay North
Development Association. Elected once again, I would like to congratulate:
Chairperson, Junior Linehan; Vice-Chairperson, Mr. Peter Daley; Treasurer, Mr.
Bill Gambin; and Secretary, Marjorie Gibbons.
Again, I would like to congratulate the St. Mary's Bay North Area
Development Association -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. MANNING: - on a great year last year, and I look forward to working
with them in the year ahead.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay East & Bell
Island.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WALSH: Mr. Speaker, the Better Business Bureau plays a very important
role in our economy today. It protects consumers from being cheated by unfair or
illegal schemes and gives them confidence in their business affairs.
The Better Business Bureau handles complaints about businesses or business
procedures from the general public through written letters and telephone calls.
It will then contact the business in question concerning the problem and pass on
the information to the person who made the complaint.
The Better Business Bureau has created a directory and buyers' guide to
better help people out. This year, the Better Business Bureau will host a
national annual conference to held here in St. John's on May 23-25.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members to join with me in congratulating the
Provincial Better Business Bureau on their ongoing work and their achievements.
I also wish to thank them and congratulate them for taking the initiative and
indeed hosting the national conference in May.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HEDDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to pay tribute to a dedicated group of volunteers who support
the Pentecostal Senior Citizens' Home in Clarke's Beach. Mr. Speaker, last
Wednesday night, I was honoured to be invited to the facility's Volunteer
Recognition Night, most appropriately held during National Volunteer Week.
The facility manager, Ms Beverley Bellefleur spoke proudly of the volunteer
program, commenting at times that there are as many volunteers as paid staff
helping to meet the needs of the residents and more importantly, creating a
friendly, homely environment in that institution. All would agree that the
dedication and commitment of the volunteers certainly added to the quality of
care for the residents. It is interesting to note that a number of the residents
themselves continue to be active as volunteers themselves, unselfishly giving
their time and service to others.
Congratulations, Mr. Speaker, has to go out to the staff of this facility, in
particular, Ms Georgina Coveyduck and Mr. Paul Sheppard for facilitating this
volunteer program. A night of prayer, song and appreciation led by the Chaplain
Pastor Petten honoured the efforts of these volunteers. Certificates of
appreciation were given out to all, as well as the different churches and
organizations involved.
I am sure, Mr. Speaker, I speak for all members of this House in
congratulating this group of volunteers from the Pentecostal Senior Citizens
Home in Clarke's Beach on a successful year of service to our seniors and wish
them well for continued success.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber East.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MERCER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It gives me great pleasure to inform members of this hon. House of yet
another sporting event that is being added to a fast growing list of events that
is making Corner Book and Western Newfoundland the sporting capital of
Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MERCER: On the weekend of April 5, the Western Sno-Riders held its
fifth annual Race on the Rock at Marble Mountain, an event that attracted some
5,000 spectators and some 177 registered racers.
In the Uphill Drags portion of the competition, competitors blasted 1,000
feet up the Cruiser ski run to compete for the title of: King of the Hill. For
the third year in a row this title went to Mr. Cory MacLean of Truro, Nova
Scotia driving a $75,000, modified 1401 cc Arctic Cat, owned by Joe Capstick
also of Nova Scotia.
In the Sno-Cross event, riders were required to traverse a course of bumps,
that we would perhaps refer to as yes-mams', up and down a hill with a
couple of hairpin turns. This years "King of the Bumps" was, for the
fourth year in a row, also from Nova Scotia, this time Cheticamp, was Mr. Jean
Guy Aucoin.
I ask all members of this hon. House to join with me in congratulating the
Western Sno-Riders for organizing this event and for making it a positive,
financial contributor to the Corner Brook local economy.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to congratulate the Random Island Academy Drama Group for
winning Best Play at the 25 th annual Vista district drama festival
which was held in Trinity at The Rising Tide Arts Centre this last week.
The fifteen students in the drama group performed the comedy Hooray for
Johnny Canuck under the direction of their teacher and drama coach, Ray
Budgell.
The Random Island Academy has been involved in this drama festival for the
past twenty years, Mr. Speaker, and this is the fourth time winning best play.
They now go on to represent the Vista School District in Gander on May 9 through
May 11.
Mr. Speaker, it is worthy of noting here that Random Island Academy is an
all-grade school with only seventy-five high school students in which to select
from for this particular competition, and they were competing with high schools
that had over 500 students enrolled. All of the students are very excited about
their success and look forward to competing in the Provincial Drama Festival.
Mr. Speaker, I ask members of this House to join with me in congratulating
them for this win, and wishing them well in their next competition in Gander.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. K. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I am announcing, today, that government will release the
Windmill Bight Golf Course Project from further Environmental Assessment subject
to the -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. K. AYLWARD: - proponent providing an Environmental Protection Plan
for approval before construction begins. The Environmental Protection Plan must
demonstrate how the proponent will prevent or lessen the negative impacts of the
development on the environment during the design, construction and operations of
the project. The proponent has committed, in the registration document, to
implementing protection measures to preserve and conserve the natural features
of the area.
Mr. Speaker, as a first step, the proponent will be required to submit a
the natural features of the area. The EPP will also address any effects that
could arise related to siltation, use of fertilizers and pesticides, and other
materials. In addition, the proponent will be required to implement an
environmental effects monitoring program to detect any possible adverse
environmental effects due to the project and take remedial measures to address
impacts.
Prior to release of the project, government will amend the boundaries of
Windmill Bight Provincial Park to accommodate the development of the Golf
Course. This will require the removal of approximately eighty hectares from the
existing park boundaries. Government will seek to add additional area to the
park to ensure that the total size of the park remains the same. At this stage,
the proponent plans to construct nine holes initially so government will lease
approximately forty acres. The other portion will be held by the Crown.
Mr. Speaker, the features being impacted by the project have been identified
elsewhere in the region. The Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation, the
hon. Julie Bettney, has directed her officials to assess Cape Freels and Deadman's
Bay for suitability as an ecological reserve, under the Wilderness and
Ecological Reserves Act. This process will include public consultation in the
region.
We have weighed the public comments, considered the advise of all government
departments and agencies and we feel we have made a balanced decision, Mr.
Speaker.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. OSBORNE: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the minister providing me with
a copy of the statement prior to the House opening. However, I say to the
minister, that this has been released from Environmental Assessment without a
full environmental assessment being done. What we are looking at here is asking
the proponent to prevent or lessen negative environmental effects because of the
development. What we are doing here is removing eighty hectares of ecological
reserve. We are removing eighty hectares from a park.
Mr. Speaker, what we are against on this side of the House is the minister
using his discretion to make positions such as this. This is what is going to
happen with the new legislation that is put before the House that we are
debating. It provides the minister with far greater discretion to make decisions
such as this.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. OSBORNE: If this minister has this much discretion right now, what
type of discretion is the minister going to have with the new legislation?
Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate that -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. T. OSBORNE: - this was released without a full environmental
assessment to ensure there would be no negative environmental effects, instead
of asking the proponent to lessen the environmental effects.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
In July of 1999, this government released a document called Our Smiling Land,
the government's vision for the protection and use of Newfoundland and
Labrador's outdoor resources in which it said: "Government will maintain
its core network of 14 provincial parks, seven natural scenic attractions and
the Newfoundland T'Railway, and will not lease any additional parks."
This decision, Mr. Speaker, is absolutely without vision, as it claimed, and
totally without protection of a habitat that has been protected for thirty-six
years.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. HARRIS: By leave, Mr. Speaker?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, the notion of saying that we are protecting the
park because it is no longer going to be a park is absolutely outrageous
double-talk by this government. To say that we are looking after the parks by
taking it out of the park is that, no parks, no protected areas in this
Province, are protected. In this case, it is even being financed by this
government under the Newfoundland Municipal Financing Corporation which is
supposed to be loans to municipalities instead of grants, into which this
government plans to put $2.6 million to build the nine holes of what is proposed
to be a $15 million project. Mr. Speaker, this is not in the best interests of
the people of Newfoundland and Labrador as a whole.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Premier.
Mr. Speaker, during the last federal and provincial elections, Liberal
parties at both levels promised to make improvements to our equalization
program. Just eighteen months ago, former Premier Brian Tobin quit provincial
politics to fight in Ottawa for a better equalization formula. Two months ago he
quit again, because he couldn't get any satisfaction from Ottawa. Now, another
former Premier, Beaton Tulk, has quit provincial politics to go to Ottawa on
another promise of correcting this injustice. Mr. Speaker, the people of this
Province are tired of broken promises.
I ask the Premier: Premier, what is the financial plan to move forward now
that Paul Martin, on Friday, made it very clear that we are stuck with this
equalization program for at least another two years?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
There have always been, and continue to be, at least two main parts to our
particular strategy and plan, Mr. Speaker. One of them, obviously, which I know
is supported by the Leader of the Opposition and by the Leader of the NDP, is
the issue just raised. Even though Minister Martin - and I spoke with him when
he was here last week and indicated that our disagreement still continues with
the federal government - indicated that he is not about to change today, it is
not going to stop every single one of us from asking every day for a different
not arriving on the scene, it is not being announced, it is not being
accomplished as quickly and as soon as we would like, but that doesn't deter
us from trying again, every single day, with the full support of the Leader of
the Opposition, I would state to you, Mr. Speaker. I am sure he will concur that
when he speaks again.
Secondly, Mr. Speaker, I have said it on numerous occasions in Newfoundland
and Labrador, we have accepted it as our challenge as the government to also do
anything, and everything, we possibly can to grow our own source revenues in
Newfoundland and Labrador to lessen our dependency upon the Government of
Canada.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: The combination of the two is where the real substance
for the future of Newfoundland and Labrador, on a fiscal relationship basis,
will stand. We look forward to accomplishing both: growing our own source
revenues but, at the same time, challenging the federal government every day,
despite the fact that we get frustrated some days, to change the fundamental
relationship between us and them.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am at a loss to understand, as a Newfoundlander and Labradorian, how our
Premier can be so friendly and so close to a man who is clearly no friend of
this Province, Paul Martin.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, in early January, long before this Budget was
introduced, former federal Industry Minister, Brian Tobin, said: This Province
should not expect any changes to the equalization program. In fact, he said, it
would be less than honest of him to suggest that changes would be forthcoming.
Yet, in preparing her Budget, the Minister of Finance said that this
government is still hoping for changes. But if those changes do not happen, she
said, I guess we will just have to deal with that next year.
Mr. Speaker, can the Premier tell the people why he has ignored the comments
of this Province's federal representative, our representative to the federal
government, in preparing this Budget? Does he still think that hope alone is an
acceptable foundation for our fiscal plan for the next twelve months?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I can answer, for certain, that we always live in hope. We are a very hopeful
group, as Liberals.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: We see a positive future for Newfoundland and Labrador,
Mr. Speaker. We are not pessimists; we are optimists. We always tend to look at
any issue and see the glass as half full rather than half empty. That is the
very nature, that speaks volumes as to the attitude and the approach.
We have differences of opinion with the federal government and I believe the
record is clear, that in Canada today I am probably the most persistent and most
that they are not doing things that are in the best interests of Newfoundland
and Labrador. I also believe, Mr. Speaker, that you can accomplish a lot more by
being inside the group and arguing the case every day then being outside the
group because I will not make a statement, which the Leader of the Opposition
has made with respect to federal-provincial relationships, in which he said: my
of Canada, said the Leader of the Opposition, is public enemy number one.
Now, Mr. Speaker, let me ask the people of the Province how that is going to
approach that is going to be taken, we will work inside the system, we will deal
with our frustrations -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. Premier now to conclude his answer.
PREMIER GRIMES: - and our disappointments but we will keep working
because we believe there is a bright future, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I share with the Premier the hope for this Province. However, Mr. Premier,
when I ran my businesses I ran them on good, sound, solid, financial information
and that is the only way you can run a business.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Considering you like to work from the inside, I find it
strange that you are in a war with words with the Member of Parliament for
Labrador, Mr. Lawrence O' Brien, when this government chose to rob the
Labrador Transportation Initiative Fund of $97 million.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: And, Mr. Speaker, when the Member for Bay of Islands, after
he got the family wharf, decided to take off -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member is on a supplementary, I ask him to get to his question.
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, for a government that is working from the inside, its members
still choose as well - the hon. Member for Bay of Islands who chose to take on
the federal -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: I ask the hon. member to get to his question, he is on a
supplementary.
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, could the Premier please tell the people of
Newfoundland and Labrador how he expects his federal Liberal counterparts to
support him on changes in the equalization program when his own government and
the Member for Bay of Islands continue to abuse their federal Liberal colleagues
and fellow Newfoundlanders and Labradorians?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I think it seems fairly obvious for anyone who is listening in or tuned in,
or paying attention, that there are not many serious questions from the Leader
of the Opposition today. These are old questions they have been asked before.
Mr. Speaker, the difference is this - again, it shows the difference in
approach and style. We, as Liberals, believe in this: that everybody's opinion
is valuable. Because we are in the same party it doesn't mean that every
single one of us, every single day, agree on every single issue. We welcome open
dialogue and we even welcome occasional differences of opinion because it gets
the issue debated. We debate the issues amongst ourselves openly and freely.
Mr. Speaker, let me just mention this. The Leader of the Opposition talks
about good business practices; that he ran his businesses on good, sound
practices. Well, the government does not have it, as part of a practice, to
allow certain debts to go unpaid or certain bills to be left unpaid as part of a
business arrangement. We have to honour our commitments, and if he wants to
stand up and say to the people of the Province what I am talking about, I won't
say anything further about it, but he knows he has been involved in business
practices in Central Newfoundland -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the Premier now to conclude his answer.
PREMIER GRIMES: - where there are people out there today who are still
owed money from arrangements in companies that he was involved in. That is a
good business practice that this government will not engage in, Mr. Speaker,
ever.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: I would not expect any more from the Premier, Mr. Speaker,
than a statement like that. More personal attacks.
AN HON. MEMBER: We, on this side have (inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, as well, I wouldn't expect the Premier of
this Province to say that questions about our fiscal and financial future are
not important enough, they are just old questions. What a statement from the
Premier of this Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, the truth is that in order to look good in the
public eye, this government developed a budget that was misleading to the people
of Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member is on a supplementary. I ask him to get to his question.
MR. WILLIAMS: Here we are today, Mr. Speaker, a few weeks after the
Budget and we are now amending it, the deficit; something that they should have
foreseen, that they actually knew.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. member now to get to his question.
MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, my question for the Premier is: Premier, can
you tell us, can you tell the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, have you been
caught again, once more, misleading the people of this Province, or is this just
another gimmick like your promise to change the equalization program in two
successive elections?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
What I can tell the members of the Legislature and you, Mr. Speaker, and the
people of the Province, is that we have not been caught again changing our minds
on a policy issue, like the Leader of the Opposition.
Mr. Speaker, with respect to the relocation of public servants in the last
year, the Leader of the Opposition is on the public record again as saying he
was absolutely, completely, opposed to the notion of relocating public servants.
He did say that if there was a brand new operation in place, that they should
put it some place. That made sense. Because he happened to be in his own riding
on Thursday past, he indicated that if a certain operation was set up in St.
John's by this government, and if they became the government, he was putting
the public servants on notice that they had better not get too comfortable in
St. John's because he would pick them up body and bones and move them to
Corner Brook and make them work in Corner Brook, because it was his riding and
his district, and he was speaking to some people in the West Coast capital city
at the time.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. Premier to now conclude his answer quickly.
PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, the differences of opinion on any one day,
on any one issue, that is what you will not get from us and that is what you
will get every single day from them.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. Premier to now conclude his answer.
PREMIER GRIMES: We will stand on our record, our Budget, every single
time, because the people of the Province know what they are getting.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to thank the Premier and I would like to thank the Minister of
Tourism for following my recommendation, our policy, last Thursday.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: When I announced in Corner Brook that our government would
move the institute for bio-diversity to Corner Brook, the following day they
announced it in Corner Brook!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. WILLIAMS: I now ask you, Premier, will you also move the Natural
Heritage Stewardship Secretariat to Corner Brook as well?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am glad the Leader of the Opposition is getting a little excited again, a
little angry again. He just made the point again perfectly, Mr. Speaker. The
Natural Heritage Stewardship Secretariat, which has been put in place now for
six or seven months by this government, a new initiative to go out and attract
money from non-governmental sectors to support research in the wildlife
development and protection of conservation, has been operational here in St.
John's for some six or seven months, and it is funded into the future to
continue on for the next year.
The Opposition Leader, who was against relocation, absolutely against
relocation, is now standing up and saying: Will you take those people who have
been here in St. John's from the beginning, and who have been working here in
St. John's from the beginning, and move them to Corner Brook? Because now he
is for relocation as long as it is something that he wants to talk about and
something that is going to Corner Brook.
We are dealing with the whole range of issues. We have a new initiative in
the budget that we are proud of, and we will not be changing our position on a
day-to-day basis -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. Premier now to conclude his answer quickly.
PREMIER GRIMES: - depending on where we are speaking in the Province, and
to what group, because that is exactly the way the Opposition operates; but not
us, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, last week we were all disappointed to hear of the allegations of
illegal fishing and misreporting of catches made against some companies and
fishermen involved with the fishery in Gaultois. Mr. Speaker, many of us were
also disappointed with the reaction of the Minister of Fisheries to the news. He
said that we were just as bad as the foreigners, and he could not see how he
would be able to fight the foreign overfishing campaign.
Mr. Speaker, where abuse of the fishery and the breaking of rules takes
place, there is no room for tolerance, no matter who it is. So, why didn't the
minister take the opportunity last week to demand similar action by the federal
government against the foreign fishermen who are, day in and day out, abusing
the rules, exceeding quotas, fishing with undersized gear, and generally
disregarding the regulations outside the 200-mile limit?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As the hon. member opposite knows, this side of the floor has been fighting
that foreign overfishing campaign and any opportunity that I get to speak to the
federal minister or any minister in the federal government, I bring the issue of
foreign overfishing to them.
Mr. Speaker, with regard to the allegations or the charges that were laid
last week: yes, indeed it was embarrassing; yes, these allegations are true. We
were out there trying to convince the rest of Canada and the rest of the world
that overfishing practices cannot continue outside, on the Nose and Tail of the
Grand Banks, when it is happening, if the allegations are true, on the inside. I
would expect the federal minister to treat those individuals from Canada the
same way as he should be treating those outside of our 200-mile limit.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for The Straits &
White Bay North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is difficult enough to get the federal government to take action against
foreign overfishing on any day. Instead of hanging his head in shame, why doesn't
the minister show some leadership? Why doesn't he point out the fact that an
investigation has uncovered serious allegations? Why doesn't he point out that
charges have been laid? Why doesn't he point out that the difference between
foreigners and us, is that we prosecute the people who break our fisheries
regulations? Why doesn't he demand the same action by the federal government,
outside the 200-mile limit?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As the hon. member knows, any infractions outside of our 200-mile limit are
supposed to be looked after by the NAFO country which the offending party is
from. But, Mr. Speaker, we know and we have been saying over and over and over
again that something needs to be done with the NAFO members off our coasts who
are doing these infractions, Mr. Speaker, and who are overfishing their quotas,
misreporting their catches. We have constantly, for the past thirteen years,
said that the federal government must do something with those foreign nations
who are not living by the rules on the Nose and the Tail and on the Flemish Cap.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for The Straits
& White Bay North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, why did the minister say, on Friday past, that
he cannot see the difference between the foreign fishery and the Canadian
fishery? Does he need to be reminded of the Russian trawler, Tynda , which
was in Bay Roberts approximately two weeks ago, and the cargo manifest that was
on-board? Why doesn't he point that out, that in Gaultois charges have been
laid, while in Bay Roberts the Russian trawler, Tynda , sailed away with
the federal minister commenting that no rules had been broken. That is the
difference, Mr. Speaker. Wouldn't the minister agree that the difference
between the Canadian fishery and the foreign fishery is that we charge, we
prosecute, we suspend licenses, we levy fines and we take quotas?
I want to ask the minister today: Will he stop providing the federal
government with excuses for inaction, and will he demand rigorous enforcement
against foreign fleets outside the 200?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, I don't know why the hon. member opposite, day
after day, stands in this House and criticizes and attacks me for what is
happening on the Nose and Tail of the Grand Banks. No one on this side of the
House, Mr. Speaker, agrees with what is happening on the Nose and the Tail of
the Grand Banks, and time and time again we have gone to the federal government
and asked them to take action on that issue, and we will continue to do so, with
or without the co-operation of the members opposite.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is to the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.
Minister, I don't need to tell you or anyone in this House today the
importance of tourism as an economic generator in our Province. The Bonavista
Peninsula has made great strides in tourism, and is probably one of the most
visited areas of this Province. One location that has generated a lot of
interest is the movie site of Random Passage located at White Point in
Trinity Bay. Over 6,000 people visited that particular site last year with the
expectation of 15,000 to come forward to the site this tourism season.
I ask the minister, if she is aware of problems being encountered by the Cape
Random Trust, to allow the continuing operation of this site as a major tourism
attraction on the Bonavista Peninsula?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS BETTNEY: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I am very much aware of the difficulties
that are being experienced by the trust foundation in trying to deal with this
issue. My officials are working very, very closely, both with the trust group
itself and with the private landowners, who actually own the site, in order to
try and bring about a resolution to this. Discussion has been taking place now
for some considerable time. I do believe that they are making progress in this
area, but they are continuing to work towards a resolution.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Bonavista South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FITZGERALD: Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister, the area that is
being questioned and the area of concern is not the area that some private
individual tends to claim. It is outside that site altogether. Minister, it is
my understanding that this popular movie site with infrastructure valued at over
$500,000 might be dismantled and lost forever as a tourism attraction, if your
government doesn't provide intervention to allow the Cape Random Trust to use
the land at White Point for public benefit.
I ask the minister, if she would commit today to do the right thing, provide
the support needed to allow this popular movie location to benefit rural
Newfoundland and Labrador, and not be destroyed as is now the alternative?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS BETTNEY: Mr. Speaker, the land ownership in the area of the film site
has claims on it by private owners. The King family, a Mr. Reginald King in
particular, has put forward a claim to this area, and I understand that there
are other claims as well that are being brought forward. As such, all we can do,
as a government, is help to work with all of the parties involved here to try
and see if there is a way they can work together in order to protect the
infrastructure that is there which has some tourism value. I think everybody
recognizes that it has tourism value, particularly for the next few years, while
this particular production is so topical and so much in the minds of people who
have seen it and been so impressed by it.
At this point, Mr. Speaker, our efforts are to try and ensure that the
parties can come together so that the site can continue to be part of the
tourism products that are available when people go to this area, but respecting
the fact that there is private land involved here and private ownership as well.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Bonavista
South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FITZGERALD: Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister again, that the piece
of land, as claimed by some private individual, is not what I am questioning you
about here today. In my conversation with the Cape Random Trust committee, they
are saying that the majority of the land is outside that area. The tourism
season is only a month away. Will the minister commit today to allow the rest of
that land to operate and be available for the tourists who are about to visit
this Province in this tourism season?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.
MS BETTNEY: Mr. Speaker, in conversations I have had with my officials on
this matter, as recent as Friday, what I have been told is that the main area
that is causing the difficulty is the area that is privately owned. Now, if
there is something contrary to that I will have to take it under advisement and
find out what the issue is; but, in all of the information I have been provided
and I know in all of the discussions that have been taking place between my
officials and this same trust, the issue has been the private ownership of the
land on which, I believe, Mr. King has made claim.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Minister of Education.
We have, supposedly in this Province, free education from the K-12 level, yet
parents in this Province are expected to contribute an estimated $3.6 million by
way of school fees for material costs. I want to ask the Minister of Education:
Is she prepared to announce now and make the commitment that in the fall, next
fall when the children go to school in this Province, the parents will not be
asked to pay this $3.6 million, in an individual amount, Mr. Speaker, where
many, many parents cannot afford to pay that much money to send this kids to
school in a supposedly free system?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, let me set the record straight, this government
does not charge our parents school fees. In fact, we have put more money into
the educational system of this Province than any other province -
AN HON. MEMBER: You're taking it away from (inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Education.
MS FOOTE: It would be really nice, Mr. Speaker, to be able to give an
answer without the Opposition trying to make a point.
Mr. Speaker, let me start again. This government does not expect parents to
pay school fees.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS FOOTE: If you look at the amount of money that we put into education
in this Province, per student it is $6,343. Mr. Speaker, that is more than any
of the Atlantic Provinces in this country. We recognize that we have to fund an
education system where we can see a quality education system, and we are doing
just that. Let me say that we pay all the teacher's salaries. We pay all the
student assistant's salaries. We pay for all the maintenance. We pay for
everything that goes on in our school system. If parents want to see some
programs enhanced, and some of our teachers want to see that from time to time,
then school councils have the ability, under the legislation, to charge fees; to
work with boards and schools to charge fees. We have no problem with that, Mr.
Speaker, but in terms of funding the educational system, I stand here today and
say that we fund the educational system in this Province more than our
counterparts in the Atlantic Provinces.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, the government has to make up its mind. Either
it is opposed to fees, which it says it does, or it permits them, which it also
does. Will this minister acknowledge that we are not talking about extras here,
we are talking about basic materials that children are required to use in the
schools, that the children and the parents are asked to pay for?
Can the minister not even agree to phase in a payment for these outlawed - or
ban the charging of school fees for the K-6 system which will probably cost
about $1.5 million for that, and phase in gradually so that there are no more
school fees in this Province for any children having to go to school?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS FOOTE: Let me say again, Mr. Speaker, this government is not
responsible for charging school fees. We fund the education system in this
Province to the tune of over $6,000 per student, recognizing, as well, that we
have a declining student enrollment in this Province. We have fewer school
buildings in this Province, and, at the same time, we have continued to increase
the funding that goes into the education system. Every school board in this
Province has seen an increase in funding.
So, Mr. Speaker, we are well aware of what it costs to run the education
system in this Province, and we do so, and we ensure that we have a quality
education system.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS FOOTE: As I said earlier, we will continue to do that. However, if
teachers want to enhance programs, if we know that parents want to do some
things extra to make a contribution to the educational system -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the minister to conclude her answer quickly.
MS FOOTE: - they are more than welcome to do so, and we would encourage
that if they want to do that.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the minister now to conclude her answer.
MS FOOTE: We are not telling them that there is a school fee system; but,
again, I say, Mr. Speaker -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the minister now to take her seat.
MS FOOTE: - school fees have been around as long as schools have been
around.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Trinity North. There is time for one quick question.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, my question today is for the Minister of
Health and Community Services.
On April 15, the Minister of Health and Community Services indicated in his
brief to the Romanow Commission that the feedback he received from the health
forums indicated that participants were open to privatization of some services.
He then went on to say that some privatization could occur. My question for the
minister is: Can he tell this House today what health services he and his
department are considering privatizing?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, my department has no specific plans to privatize any of the
services. I am pleased to hear the hon. member today at least rise in his place
and report accurately on the presentation that was made to the Romanow
Commission; unlike a release which I seen come out of his office last week which
in fact said to everyone in the Province that I had appeared before the Romanow
Commission and we were going to privatize the health care system in this
Province. I would suggest to the hon. member, Mr. Speaker, I do not think that
is the type of games they should be playing, out trying to cause unrest and
concern among the people of the Province.
To his question; this government and this department has no plans to
privatize health care in this Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Question period has ended.
MR. E. BYRNE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I was reluctant, and I did not rise during Question Period on a point of
order, but on a number of occasions in this House in the last several weeks I
have listened intently to what I can only describe as misleading statements made
by the Premier vis--vis relocation of government services and this party's
position. He knows full well, Mr. Speaker, that this party and the Leader of the
Opposition are not opposed to government services. What we are opposed to and
what we were opposed to is a plan devised on the ninth hole of a golf course, a
plan devised without consultation with the public service, and a plan devised
where in one hand they said it would cost the people of the Province $5 million
when actually it cost them $30 million. That is what we are opposed to, Mr.
Speaker!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
There is no point of order.
Notices of Motion
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a
bill entitled, "An Act to Amend the Labrador Transportation Initiative Fund
Act."
Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.
MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following
bills:
A bill, "An Act to Amend the Public Service Pensions Act."
A bill, "An Act to Amend the Gasoline Tax Act."
I give notice that I will on tomorrow move that the House resolve itself into
a Committee of the Whole to consider certain resolutions relating to the
granting of Supplementary Supply to Her Majesty. (Bill 8)
Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow move that the House
resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider certain resolutions
relating to the raising of loans by the Province. (Bill 7)
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health.
MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,
"An Act to Amend the Adoption Act." (Bill 14)
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary
Education.
MS KELLY: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to
introduce a bill -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair cannot hear the hon. minister. I ask hon. members now to let the
minister speak.
MS KELLY: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to
introduce a bill, "An Act Respecting Student Financial Assistance."
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services and Lands.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. NOEL: What did he say?
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. NOEL: Oh, come on, I have two; the second one here.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. NOEL: I am going to have a lot more after this.
I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following
bills:
A bill, "An Act to Amend the Automobile Insurance Act."
A bill, "An Act to Amend the Highway Traffic Act."
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Labour.
MS THISTLE: I ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An Act to
Amend the Workplace Health, Safety and Compensation Act." (Bill 11)
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.
MR. LANGDON: I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce
the following bills:
A bill, "An Act to Amend the City of Corner Brook Act, the City of Mount
Pearl Act, the City of St. John's Act, the Municipalities Act, the Urban and
Rural Planning Act." (Bill 17)
A bill, "An Act to Amend the City of St. John's Act." (Bill 18)
A bill, "An Act to Amend the City of St. John's (Loan) Act,
1978." (Bill 19)
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I have a petition, and I will read the prayer:
To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador in legislative
session convened, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and
Labrador;
WHEREAS the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador is charging sales tax on
its $3 tire recycling fee even though it does not charge sales tax on beverage
container recycling; and
WHEREAS we feel it is unfair and unduly costly to consumers in Newfoundland
and Labrador to tax the tire recycling fee;
WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
to remove the sales tax on tire recycling, as in duty bound your petitioners
will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, we estimate that there are approximately 100,000 tires a year
recycled or sent to landfills in the Province. That is what the tire recycling
program was put in place to address. If we are charging 15 per cent of $3 on
100,000 tires, what you are looking at, Mr. Speaker, is about $45,000 a year.
Part of that is the federal HST. We are looking at about $24,000 a year coming
to the Province. Some of that will be clawed back as a result of it being a tax
in transfer payments. When you look at the cost of implementing this, of
ensuring that the taxes are paid, the cost to the public service - Mr. Speaker,
we are not talking about a big amount of money coming into the provincial
coffers here, but what we are talking about is a burden on some of the families
in this Province who are struggling to buy groceries every week. What we are
talking about is an extra burden on families who are struggling to get by, on
the working poor, on single parents.
It is unconscionable that in this Province, with the economy that we have,
with some people struggling to get by from week-to-week, that we would put in
place a tax on recycling. It is unconscionable, Mr. Speaker, that we would tax a
recycling fee to begin with. When you look at the purpose of tire recycling, or
of the beverage container recycling program, or of any recycling program, it
would be unconscionable to tax the recyclable fee on beverage containers. Why is
it that we are taxing the recycling fee on tires? We are asking the government
to remove the tax on the $3 fee on tire recycling because the people of this
Province, while many of them agree with the tire recycling program, while we, on
this side of the House, have advocated for years for a tire recycling program -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. T. OSBORNE: - the tax on the recycling program is unfair. It is
unfair. I am proud to present this petition today.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I stand today to present another petition from residents of the Cape Shore
area. Most notably the communities of St. Bride's, Cuslett, Branch, Pont
Lance, Angel's Cove and Patrick's Cove. Once again, the petition has to do
with the condition of the highway, Route 100, between, what we call, Cuslett
lookout, over to the community of Branch and Route 100-16, commonly known as
Point Lance Road in our area.
I had the opportunity this weekend to travel over this road on several
occasions as I attended a couple of functions in my district, and to say that
the conditions are deplorable would be an understatement. This road was paved in
1979. Back in 1979 the major part of this road was paved, and it is in some much
need of repair. Last year we had the opportunity to receive, I think, a little
over three kilometers of recapping and some patchwork.
What concerns me more than that is that this year we are heading into another
great tourism season with the Cape St. Mary's Ecology Reserve. We have Targa
Newfoundland who are travelling in our area with a major international
competition that is coming our way. We have some other major attractions that
are coming our way, and we have a road that is deplorable and a road that needs
an immense amount of work done with it. The people in the area have decided to
put forward this petition today, through me here in the House, to highlight the
issue for the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation, as he sees where
he is going to spend his money this year in relation to improvements to the road
network in the Province, but to let people know that many people in my area see
this road as very unsafe.
We have buses that travel back and forth from the communities of Branch and
Pont Lance and travel back and forth to Fatima Academy on a day-to-day basis.
You have to swing the wheels over now just to get clear of some of the holes in
the road. It is a very dangerous situation when you have a seventy-two passenger
bus full of young children and you are trying to navigate around potholes and
some heavy, heavy cracks in the pavement throughout this stretch. It is not an
immense amount of work, but something that has been left unattended for many
years.
We ask that the minister accept this petition from the people in the area to
take into consideration the need to have this concern addressed on behalf of the
people in the Cape Shore area. There will be more petitions on the way. I have
been contacted by all the communities on the Cape Shore, who have told me that
they are forwarding petitions, they are forwarding letters, to the Minister of
Works, Services and Transportation, and to myself, to make sure that the
necessary funding to carry out these needed repairs are brought forward, but
also to bring forward the concerns that they have in relation to the safety.
Safety is the number one issue, I am sure, of the minister and of everybody here
in the House, but indeed for the people who travel that road on a day-to-day
basis.
They believe that the issues should be dealt with, Mr. Speaker, and hopefully
by bringing these petitions forward, raising the issue here in the House of
Assembly -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. MANNING: - and asking the minister to accept this petition on their
behalf, to hopefully find some dollars to carry out the much-needed repairs.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I stand today to present a petition as well. The petition reads: To the hon.
House of Assembly of Newfoundland, in Legislative Session convened. The petition
of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland.
WHEREAS Route 235 from Birchy Cove to Bonavista has not been upgraded since
it was paved, approximately twenty-five years ago; and
WHEREAS this
section of Route 235 is in such a terrible condition that
vehicles are being damaged, including the school buses serving schools in the
area, and school children are finding their daily trips over the road very
difficult;
WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
to upgrade and pave the approximately four kilometres of Route 235 from Birchy
Cove to Bonavista.
And, as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, this is a
section of road that has been on the go now, with
government making feeble attempts to upgrade, reconstruct and pave for the past
five years. This is the fifth year. We are only talking about six kilometres of
road to begin with.
It started off when the now Minister of Forest Resources and Agrifoods was
the minister and we looked at upgrading and paving the road. The minister came
back and said: Look, because of restrictions and because of budget cuts we
cannot upgrade and pave that
section of road this year, but what we are going to
do is, we are going to do like we did on the Burin Peninsula - those were his
comments; I remember them very well - this year we will go down in that
section
of road, we will ditch and we place in culverts. Next year we will go down and
we will reconstruct and pave the road.
Those culverts and the ditching have been done now for three years, I say to
people opposite, and we are still waiting and we are still begging for one of
the main roads leading into Bonavista to be upgraded and paved.
The first year we got approximately, I would say, about 500 feet of pavement,
Mr. Speaker. The next year we got 1.9 kilometres. Now we are into another year
and there is approximately three to four kilometres of road. The road has
already been ditched. The culverts have already been placed in. It has been
identified as a priority by the local Works, Services and Transportation depot
in Clarenville. They say it is on their list of priorities. The road needs to be
upgraded, paved, in order to allow safe transportation of school children to
school, and other people who use this road on a daily basis.
It has gotten to the point now, Mr. Speaker, that you almost have to drive in
the middle of the road to access and get to the biggest community in my
district, Bonavista. You actually have to drive in the centre of road. The edges
of the pavement have disappeared. Mr. Speaker, it is gravel now almost into the
yellow line on the pavement. What people are asking for is, for this particular
section of road, this particular road -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. FITZGERALD: - the main road leading into Bonavista, to be included
this year in the capital works budget. They have waited for five years for a
small amount of pavement.
Mr. Speaker, I do not think that is too much to ask for.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary
Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS KELLY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask leave to present this petition of 4,000
names from my district. The reason I need to ask leave is, in checking with the
Deputy Clerk, I understand that the petition ought to be addressed to the House,
because, in the prayer of it, it is not addressed to the House. I did meet with
a group of constituents on Friday who asked me to present it to the House, and I
would like to have leave to present it.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MS KELLY: Thank you very much.
Mr. Speaker, the prayer of this petition reads:
A Renal Dialysis Unit has once again become a major issue for many concerned
groups and individuals from the area serviced by the James Paton Memorial
Regional Hospital. This hospital provides medical care services to a catchment
area of approximately 50,000 people. Several patients within this area are
presently travelling to Grand Falls-Windsor for dialysis treatment. Actually, it
is thirteen patients.
The James Paton Memorial Regional Hospital is currently undergoing extensive
renovations and expansions. This would be an appropriate time for a dialysis
unit to be part of the plan of health care services that are provided by this
hospital. We have a strong committed team and our attitude is not that it would
be nice to have, we feel strongly that it must be a priority.
We, the undersigned interested parties, are seeking a commitment from the
Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to establish a Renal Dialysis Unit at
the James Paton Memorial Regional Hospital, therefore providing a much-needed
health care service for our region.
As I have said, Mr. Speaker, this petition is signed by approximately 4,000
people in the region. I should also add that I am very pleased to be working
with the committee who are heading this up. In fact, I met with them on Friday
afternoon in my office in Gander. I have also met with the Department of Health
and Community Services, as well as the previous Minister and the new Minister of
Health.
At the moment, the department is telling me that we are awaiting a report of
the provincial dialysis committee and we are expecting this report in the
upcoming weeks. We met with the James Paton Memorial Hospital also on this
request and they tell me that they are updating their request brief and have
identified space.
I should conclude by saying, as the MHA for Gander District, I understand
this pressing need because many of the families who have to commute from areas
like Fogo Island and New-Wes-Valley and find it very, very difficult to go these
long distances are telling me that they would want this to be a priority of this
government; and, of course, I will continue to make this request a priority. I
look forward to the report of the provincial Renal Dialysis Committee, that we
should have within the month.
Thank you very much.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Before I recognize the hon. member, I would like to take
this opportunity to welcome to the Speaker's gallery today, Members of the
European Parliament and their officials. They are: Mr. Struan Stevenson, Chair
of the United Kingdom Conservative and Unionist Party; Mrs. Elspeth Attwooll,
United Kingdom - Liberal Democrat Party; Mr. Ian Stewart Hudghton, United
Kingdom - Scottish National Party; and Mr. Michael Topping, Secretariat, along
with Parliamentary Assistants: Ms. Catriona Burness, Mr. Michael Hager, Mrs.
Lily Hudghton, Ms Ingrid Kelling, and Ms Rikke Kristiansen.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present a petition on behalf of thousands of residents of
Labrador. The petition, Mr. Speaker, involves government's decision to take
$97 million out of the Labrador Transportation Initiative Fund and use it for
general revenue.
Mr. Speaker, people in Labrador are not satisfied with the minister's
statement on Budget day, that $97 million will be taken from them and in return
they will get a promise that $102 million will be spent to put a road through
Labrador during the next six years. Nobody in Labrador believes that, Mr.
Speaker, and I don't think that government themselves believe that they are
going to have the ability to do that.
Mr. Speaker, the road network that is in Labrador at the present time - this
pool of money could have been used, and has been used in the past, to maintain
the existing road structures that are presently in place. It is a gravel road
from Labrador West to Happy Valley-Goose Bay and down through the South Coast
and The Straits. That road, Mr. Speaker, is going to be in continuous need of
repair. As one
section is upgraded, the other sections are falling down. We do
not believe for a minute that this government will have the money, even though
they say that they will spend money in Labrador putting a road through even at
the expense of the Island portion of the Province not having any work done, when
they do not have the ability to do what is required on the Island portion of the
Province at the present time.
Mr. Speaker, prior to government's decision to take this money, this $97
million, prior to that we had our pool and that money could have been used for
road construction in Labrador. It could have been enough to complete Phase III
from Happy Valley-Goose Bay to Cartwright. It could have been used to do all of
the upgrading that is need on a continuous basis, but when this money is gone,
Mr. Speaker, as it is government's intention to do, then we are going to be
left without any money whatsoever, not only to construct Phase III, but to do
the necessary repairs that are required on an ongoing basis.
There are many people today, Mr. Speaker, who depend upon that highway to
make a livelihood, to transport goods. People in other areas of Labrador need
that highway to get goods at a decent price, rather than paying much higher
services in order to get their goods delivered, and the general public as well.
Right now, Mr. Speaker, there are sections of that road that are a danger to the
safety of the travelling public, let alone the people who are using it to make a
livelihood.
Mr. Speaker, we are very concerned, the people in Labrador are very
concerned, that once government removes this $97 million, then all they are
going to receive in return is an empty promise to do something that we all know
they will not have the ability to deliver.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Order 2, Mr. Speaker. I move that the House resolve itself into a Committee
of Supply.
On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of Supply, Mr.
Speaker left the Chair.
Committee of the Whole
CHAIR (Mercer): Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I am certainly pleased today to have the opportunity to stand and make some
comments and ask some questions on the Office of the Executive Council and, more
importantly, to raise some vital issues that I believe need to be raised here in
the House, and not only in the House but indeed throughout the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador. I would like to start off some of my concerns on the
Strategic Social Plan, subhead 2.6.01., in the Estimates.
Certainly, some efforts have been put forward by the members opposite in
relation to providing the Strategic Social Plan, and not only the Strategic
Social Plan, Mr. Chair -
MR. LUSH: A point of order, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIR: Order, please!
On a point of order, the hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Mr. Chairman, (inaudible) we get the procedure right. It was my
understanding that we taking each of these items in turn, that we had not
completed Intergovernmental Affairs, and that the hon. gentleman is now on to
the Strategic Social Plan. We do not mind going on to the Strategic Social Plan,
but I thought that when we finished the other day we were on to the
Intergovernmental Affairs and had not finished that particular one.
CHAIR: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Chairperson.
The Government House Leader, we have done what he has indicated in debate and
we have also let it go a little bit wider in terms of the depth of debate under
the entire Executive Council heading. I guess, for the benefit of all members,
we will conclude with Executive Council Estimates debate today. I think we have
two hours and eight minutes left. If members wish to jump around, if that would
be okay, if the Government House Leader and members opposite are in agreement
with that, then we can provide a little more latitude in terms of the debate and
let members go where they are. At the end today's sitting, then, we will
conclude and move forward in terms of all of the subheadings and subheads under
the Executive Council
section of the Budget.
CHAIR: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Mr. Chairman, if that is the way the Opposition wants to do it,
that is fine.
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I thank both House Leaders for straightening that up.
Mr. Chair, again I want to touch on, if I could, the Strategic Social Plan. I
believe, as a member here in the House, that the Strategic Social Plan is
something that has, certainly, been discussed in this Province for many, many
years now, and something that I think needs to continue to be discussed. There
are many people in our Province, Mr. Chair, who are certainly concerned with the
social aspect of government and what it intends to do for the people of the
Province, especially in rural Newfoundland and Labrador, and the concerns that
are raised here.
In the Estimates, Mr. Chair - I would just like to throw out a few questions,
if I could, first, just to get the debate started.
Under Salaries on 2.6.01.01., Strategic Social Plan, I will deal with the
Minister of -
CHAIR: Human Resources.
MR. MANNING: Human Resources and Employment. Okay, Mr. Chair.
CHAIR: Or Health.
MR. MANNING: Okay, I will deal with the Minister of Health on these.
Mr. Chair, we had a budgeted amount last year of $832,700, we see an increase
up to $866,900, and this year we have budgeted $1,014,200. I wonder if the
minister could touch on those, because there seems to be a discrepancy not only
in last year's amount, but a fair amount of an increase this year. I am just
wondering what that increase would be associated with. Are there going to be
more people involved in the Strategic Social Plan, the delivery of it, the
administration of it or whatever the case may be? Maybe the minister can
enlighten us on that.
Thank you.
CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First of all, in terms of the figures that the member references, there was
some delay in getting some of the positions in place, some of the planners that
we have in the regions. Right now we have all the regions up and running. As the
hon. member would know, they didn't all come on stream at the same time. At
the present time we have the Strategic Social Plan on a regional basis. There
are six separate regions in the Province. Each region has a planner, a person
attached to that region. So, there would have been a delay getting some of these
positions in place.
Right now, all of the regions are up and running, the planners are in place
and, in addition to that, we also have a portion through the Newfoundland Stats
Agency which is working on the social audit. So there are some individuals who
are involved in that as well. Some of that is contracted out.
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
On 2.6.01.03, Mr. Chair, I would like to ask the minister: We had budgeted
last year $509,000, we revised that budget to $330,200, on Transportation and
Communications, and this year the budget is $310,000. It is almost in line with
last year's budget, but it is considerably less than what was budgeted last
year. I am just wondering if the minister could enlighten us on that also.
CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Again, in line with what I had mentioned earlier, as we were going through
the process of getting the regional committees up and running, there was
additional travel that was required from the base unit here in St. John's.
Some of our staff would have to travel out to the regions helping to get things
set up. Now that we have the regions up and running, with a planner in each
region, there will be less need for hands-on from the base unit level, although
we will still obviously maintain that contact and liaison. That is where that
would come in. There would be less need for that in terms of the travel
required.
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Down to 06., Purchased Services, I say to the minister, we have budgeted last
year $40,000 and we see an increase up to $210,200. That is a little over five
times the amount budgeted, Mr. Chair. This year we have a budget amount of
$95,200. It seems to be a fair amount of increase there in last year's budget
and over double the amount for this year's budget. I was just wondering if the
minister could enlighten us on that, please.
Thank you.
CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
MR. SMITH: Mr. Chair, again with that particular item, this involves a
fair amount of the work that is ongoing in terms of the social audit. The hon.
member would be aware that a very important piece of the work that is
accompanying the Strategic Social Plan and that we are hoping to begin to roll
out in this year, I think that once it does roll out, it is a piece of work that
all of us in this House and certainly this Province will be able to take great
pride in because it is a piece of work in which we are leading the Province. So,
that reference is primarily that particular area.
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Certainly on the Strategic Social Plan, and I am fully aware of it in my
district, I have attended a couple of the meetings of the people who have been
involved in that in my district, Mr. Chair, there seems to be some concerns
being raised with a couple of issues. I certainly would like to have the
opportunity to discuss those here today and maybe get some enlightenment from
the minister on those.
Certainly, one of the major issues that has been raised with me, Mr. Chair,
is the fact of the ABE Program, and it is in three different levels here in the
Province: Levels I, II and III. I had an instance in my district where a person
wanted to be a mechanic. He had an opportunity to get a job as a mechanic in a
part of the Province, on the Shore and anywhere that he wanted to get a job, but
the fact is that he had finished his education level at the secondary level at
Grade 10, in fact, a number of years ago, and in order to be able to partake in
the mechanic program at the College of the North Atlantic, he had to upgrade his
skills to be allowed to be admitted and had to have more than what he already
had, Mr. Chair. In doing that, he found out that the ABE Program, Adult Basic
Education Program, is in three different levels and that he could not get
funding for Level I. He could get funding for Levels II and III, if he needed
that, but he could not get funding for Level I. Therefore, he could not make the
first step forward in order to become a mechanic for the simple reason that he
could not get funding from either level of government at the time because of the
way it was set up.
My understanding is - and I ask the minister, if he has the opportunity in a
few moments, to respond. I ask the minister to explain to me, and I am sure to
all members of the House, if you are not allowed or not permitted or if you do
not get the opportunity to receive funding to do step one, it is very difficult
to move up the ladder to step two and three where you get funding. I think, from
what I can understand in my own district, there are several people who are
caught in this trap of having that year there where they receive no funding.
In this particular situation, the man I am speaking about was a married man
with a couple of children. The expense of going and partaking in the program was
just a bit too much for his household budget at the time, and he required some
assistance. He was not on any other type of government assistance at the time,
but the problem was, he could not get to first base.
I would like to ask the minister, if he could, to enlighten us on the ABE
Program itself, the breakdown of Levels I, II and III, and why government does
not fund the Level I program, because I believe it is leaving a lot of people
out in the dark. Maybe the minister will get an opportunity to explain what he
can on that program, please.
CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I have to tell the hon. member that I cannot provide him with detail with
regard to the particular issue that he raised, but I think the point that the
hon. gentleman is making is very relevant to us in this House, especially any
members who have not had the opportunity to work closely with the SSP concept.
The issue that the hon. member raises is illustrative of the type of work
that the SSP units are doing. The Social Policy Committee of Cabinet travelled
the Province extensively this fall and met with five of the regional committees.
We have one left to do and that is the one in the western region. Everywhere we
went, these were the kinds of issues that were raised. They are very valid
issues, as the hon. member points out, and they ask very valid questions.
I do not see my colleague, the Minister of Education, here, but she would
perhaps be in the best position to speak to the particulars of that particular
question. The importance of what the hon. member raises is that the way the SSP
operates, and the way the regional committees work - I tell you, if you have the
opportunity in your region to sit in with the committee and watch them in
action, it is really impressive because you really have a collection there of
all of the decision makers in a particular region. They come from economic
development, they come from education, they come from all of the varied
backgrounds, and they sit down. What is so impressive is the fact that they are
able to sit around the table and leave their own differences behind when they
come through the door, and work collectively in trying to identify and deal with
issues.
The issue that the hon. member raised was, in fact, raised when we were out
in his area, and the chair of their committee made an excellent presentation to
us in outlining some of the issues that are of concern in that particular area.
Everywhere we have gone has been the same sort of thing. Some of the issues
that are identified are peculiar to particular regions of the Province; some of
them are broad-based in that there are similar things that people are
encountering elsewhere in the Province; but, in all cases, they are very, very
relevant, very, very valid, and these are issues that the members of the
committees are trying to move forward, and the various government departments
will be working with them to try to resolve the issues that are being identified
and brought forward.
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Maybe the minister would try to get some information on the ABE Program from
the Minister of Education afterwards, if you could, to enlighten us.
I certainly compliment those people who are involved in the Strategic Social
Plan, especially the people in our local area who have put forward their
concerns. I am quite familiar with the chair in our own area, Mr. Chair, and I
would say that -
MR. LUSH: (Inaudible).
MR. MANNING: I say to the Government House Leader, he is learning
It is a very important issue and we had the opportunity, myself and a couple
of my colleagues on this side of the House, to travel to different parts of the
Province, to partake in our own social policy meetings and to receive
presentations from people in different parts of the Province.
Certainly, the ABE program is an important aspect of social policy in this
Province. I believe that we, as legislators here, have to try to do whatever we
can to make sure - whether it is working with the federal government for funding
on that and some (inaudible) cost-shared agreement to address the illiteracy
problem in our Province, to get an opportunity for those who may need any level
of ABE, Mr. Chairman, any level of Adult Basic Education, should be given the
opportunity to do that.
Mr. Chairman, that leads me into another topic that falls directly under the
Strategic Social Plan, and that has to do with illiteracy in the Province; and
definitely an opportunity here maybe to ask the minister a couple of questions
on that. From my understanding, the Department of Education carried out a
strategic literacy plan a couple of years ago. Again, Mr. Chairman, I will ask
the minister questions on what he can and cannot answer. There seems to be, from
what I understand, a lot of the issues that were raised under the strategic
literacy plan and the study that was done, Mr. Chairman, a lot of these issues
are not being followed up on and addressed. I am just wondering, is it a lack of
funding that is causing that? We have an incredible amount - upwards around the
40 per cent bracket - of people in the Avalon area, that I am aware of, who did
not have the opportunity to complete high school.
We seen a few years ago, under the fisheries retraining program, where much
emphasis was put on Adult Basic Education. I know throughout my own district
there were several places which were involved in Adult Basic Education, to give
people an opportunity to have at least a solid foundation to take them into some
type of post-secondary education, whatever field they chose. It seems, again, to
be a concern out there among people that even though we have some heavy
illiteracy percentages in this Province - I am just wondering if the minister
could tell me today, on the total budget for the Strategic Social Plan, how much
is spent? Does he have any idea how much is spent in administration versus how
much really goes out into the community? It seems like, not only with this
program, Mr. Chairman, but indeed, most government programs, in situations that
we find - we find the same problems in the Department of Education. I am sure
that many members understand that there is a fair amount of money - we hear
ministers time and time again say: we are putting more money into education. We
are putting more money into health. We are putting more money into different
social programs that we have. I am just wondering - the concern is and I guess
it has been there in the past and continues to be, is that much of this new
funding, much of this additional funding gets caught up in administration and
does not necessarily filter down to the classroom in certain situations or into
the front lines of health care or whatever the case may be.
From a Strategic Social Plan - I see the budgeted amount under Strategic
Social Plan - the total budget is $2 million. Over $1 million of the $2 million,
from what I am reading here now, is going to be spent in salaries. Now, I know
there are other projects and community initiatives that the government does
which equal more than $2 million. On the budget here, under Executive Council,
the Strategic Social Plan, the $2 million budget has over 50 per cent of that in
Salaries. I am just wondering, minister, if you could tell us about the programs
or give us some enlightenment on what really is going out into the community? I
understand the studies. I understand the meetings that are happening throughout
the Province. I have attended some myself. I understand that the plan needs to
be put in place but people are out there wondering how much is getting caught up
and how much is getting used in administration verses what is filtering down
into communities, filtering down into where the need is, filtering down into the
schools or the hospitals whatever the case may be, but just on Strategic Social
Plan itself, from that aspect, how much of the $2 million - we know what is
being spent in Salaries, but how much is being spent on other community
initiatives? How much is being spent on other community projects to make sure
that the Strategic Social Plan has some teeth? Mr. Chairman, I will just leave
that for the minister to enlighten us on.
Thank you.
CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
First of all, in terms of the broader question that the hon. member raises
with regard to the administrative costs of the program; he will realize, and the
other hon. members of this House, is that the Strategic Social Plan has a very
defined role to play in terms of - and while $2 million is a significant amount
of money, I guess, in relative terms, and we are talking about budgets within
government, $2 million is a relatively small amount in terms of what we deal
with in this House. So, the $1 million-plus or a little over 50 per cent going
into administration because basically, what the SSP does is more of a
coordination within government in terms of the various departments. As a matter
of fact, the money that has been made available for specific projects during the
time that the SSP has operated have been primarily for what has been referred to
as demonstration projects. It has been very clearly earmarked and designed for
very specific purposes. For example, one of the things that comes to mind is
regional committees wanting to do something along the line of volunteerism. So
we have made money available to that.
Also, I note in my own area of the Province in terms of dealing with youth
issues, there is money available for that. I guess the idea behind the SSP is
not so much to be a funding agency in terms of providing these additional funds
to the various groups that are out there but I guess the role that it can play
is help these groups identify where they might go to access some of the funding
that they require.
One of the other things that I should mention as well, one of the features of
the SSP is an advisory council. It is referred to as a Premier's Council which
is made up of very prominent citizens of this Province who come in from varied
backgrounds, varied political persuasion and their idea is everything that
government does or the plan is, and we are gradually moving toward that, is
vetted through this council. We get the opportunity of having these people with
their broad backgrounds to be able to look at - for example, I know when I was
Minister of Human Resources and Employment and we were moving forward with the
review of legislation, the document that we had we bounced it off this council
to get some sense from them as to what they thought it would be doing. This is
happening with other departments as well.
If I could, to the literacy issue that the hon. member raises - and this is
very relevant, I guess, it is an issue that is near and dear to me because in my
previous life prior to politics I was an educator. While I worked in the
primary-elementary system, I did have the opportunity to have been involved in
an initiative that in our area of the Province has gone on to receive
international recognition. It started out as an initiative that was related to,
or restricted to, my area of Port au Port, but has since gone on to encompass
the whole of the Southwest Coast of Newfoundland, primarily within the
boundaries of the District # 4 school board.
This initiative is basically that. It is geared towards all levels of
literacy. For example, when we started out, our initial venture was in the area
of preschool. To put it in context for hon. members in terms of when you are
talking literacy and trying to understand how broad based the challenges are,
our committee, the work that we did in our area, was prompted initially by the
fact that we have a very high, an exceptionally high, dropout rate in the school
system in which I was employed. When we sat down as a group to look at it and
try to strategize as to how we could change that or improve that, the
realization quickly arose that really there was no point to start at the high
school level where the problem was manifesting itself. Really, you had to
backtrack much further and start very early on.
Our very first initiative, trying to deal with that particular thing,
resulted in the initiation of preschool programs in the area. As a matter of
fact, we ended up having universal preschools in the area of the Province that I
was living in and working in at that time so that all children - what it
amounted to is basically a junior kindergarten so that our children were
entering school a year earlier, trying to level the playing field and given the
opportunity to compete.
Mr. Chair, reflecting back on it, I certainly take advantage of the
opportunity to still work closely with that group, which has certainly grown far
beyond what we originally had envisioned. As I said, it has now become a model
for not only this Province, but it is certainly recognized nationally and
internationally.
I guess I raise it here because it does underline the very important issue
that the hon. member is referencing and that deals with the whole area of
literacy. I agree with him that we have to do everything we can to try to make
sure that opportunities are made available to the people of this Province,
regardless of your age, regardless of your status in life, or where you find
yourself, that you have the opportunity to improve your literacy skills at any
given time. As a result, people, whether they are school dropouts or whether
they are people who were forced to - or for whatever reasons - find themselves
in situations that they were not able to complete their education, or in some
cases we have to acknowledge as well that there are certainly documented cases
of people who have gone through the school system only to find themselves out in
the workforce, sometimes, regrettably, not having the literacy skills necessary
to do the work in which they presently find themselves involved.
These are issues that are certainly near and dear to me and they are
certainly issues that are of paramount importance to the people of this
Province. The hon. member certainly raises a very relevant issue. I guess the
role of the SSP - and this is where the SSP can be so important because it does
such a valuable service not only in identifying these concerns, and identifying
that there is a need in this area, but also becoming the champion, to have that
group out there champion on behalf of literacy, and saying that this has to be a
priority for our area because, first and foremost, if we are to move forward in
a lot of our areas we must first and foremost become educated.
I agree with the hon. member's perception, or
summary, of the issues that
are there in terms of what is happening at the regional levels. I acknowledge
that we have a ways to go, but certainly we acknowledge and recognize that they
are important and we will continue to work to move the agenda forward.
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I certainly welcome the minister's comments on the importance of literacy
development in the Province, and it is certainly something that I am sure all
members of the House agree on. My concern goes back to the fact, again, of how
many of the dollars that we budget in this Province go into administration of
these programs or administration of developing these programs. Just as an
example, I touched on the heading in the Estimates, the Strategic Social Plan,
of a $2 million budget with 50 per cent in salaries.
If the minister would just turn back a couple of pages, we have 2.2.05.,
Advisory Councils on Economic and Social Policy, and we have $210,400 in
salaries over here for this coming year, Mr. Chair. You go back to Economic and
Social Policy Analysis under the Cabinet Secretariat, 2.2.02., and we have
another $406,300 in Salaries again, all in the support of economic and social
policy committees.
I realize that we have to have people involved in the delivery of these
programs, and certainly the implementation of these programs, but I am just
wondering once again because what I have found, and I do not think I am unique
in the House, is there is much concern out there in the Province about how much
is going into administration of these organizations, of the people involved at
the departmental level. I realize, as an example, we talk about literacy
development. It has come to my attention in a couple of schools, Mr. Chair, that
they are facing some cutbacks in regard to student assistants this year, in
regard to the budgets they have received. These people, in most cases, are at a
disadvantage than other children in the school. Where some child may need ten
minutes, some of the children who require the assistance of student assistants
need an hour maybe.
I know of a couple of instances, myself, that I am quite familiar with: that
if the student assistant is not going to be in her place, or in his place,
whatever the case may be, this coming September, it is going to be a major
disadvantage to these children who are part of that program.
I think, as the minister touched on a few moments ago, and I was very pleased
to hear him say so, I think we all realize the improvements to our literacy
development here in the Province start at the lowest level that we can get it
at. If that is kindergarten or preschool, whatever the case may be, then that is
where we need to spend the dollars. When we get further up the line, in high
school, it may be too late in some cases to do that, so it is important there.
I just wanted a point of clarification, maybe from the minister once again,
on literacy development in the schools themselves. Are we putting the onus on
the school boards to implement those through the administration of the school,
or does government have some intervention to ensure that the literacy programs,
the literacy development, especially for those, as I said, who are less
advantaged than others, especially those who require the assistance of student
assistants, are we giving the opportunity or are we making sure that those
programs are put in place and are implemented at the school level?
CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Again, to the hon. member, unfortunately I cannot speak in detail in terms of
the specifics of that because the issue that he raises is a little broader than
the context of the SSP, and he has acknowledged that. I guess in terms of
literacy generally, and certainly from the point of view of the involvement of
the SSP, literacy can be delivered in a number of ways. There is no question
that when you reference the regular school system and that falls under my
colleague, the Minister of Education, I am sure she can provide you with all the
detail that you would need there with regard to programs like student assistants
or whatever.
In terms of literacy generally, it can be delivered in any number of ways,
and there are number of agencies that would be involved. I reference the fact
that in my own area the community education network is doing an excellent job,
and we have others throughout the Province. Here, in the City of St. John's,
we have a number of excellent centres that have been established and set up
dealing with, primarily, adult literacy. All of these, in their own way, are
doing an excellent job; so, there is no one model. I guess what we have is a
number of organizations, a number of groups who are addressing this broad-based
challenge to all of us. We recognize and acknowledge that it is something that
we must be focused on. It is something that we must try to address, and I do
feel that we have been making some strides; and, certainly in terms of the plan
that has been developed, I am sure that we will continue to move that particular
agenda forward.
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
With the Strategic Social Plan, I would like to ask the minister: As you have
said, your own committee of Cabinet has travelled across the Province and has
met with, I think, five of the six committees, with one more to meet. From a
strategic point of view, some of the issues that I have raised here today and
have been raised in my area are issues, I am sure, you have heard across the
Province. I am just wondering, from a point of view of implementing the plan
itself, is there going to be a uniform policy across the Province, or are you
going to look at different areas of the Province and look at funding some of the
different needs that are in different parts of the Province? Or is your
department, I guess, hoping to bring in a uniform policy across Newfoundland and
Labrador to address some of the issues that have been raised through your
meetings and through the consultations that the different regions are having
throughout Newfoundland and Labrador?
CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
To the question, I guess the two ways that come to mind that we are
approaching, certainly there will be situations, and there are situations I am
aware of, where issues arise that are peculiar to a certain region, so they will
only require a reaction or an action to deal with the problem in that area. If
it is something that has a broad-base application throughout the Province, it
certainly has implications there as well.
I should also point out to the hon. member, and to hon. members in this
House, that the system works both ways as well. I am aware of a situation where
a particular problem arose in a region and it did not come through the SSP. It
was a problem that came to light in a particular area of the Province and, in my
capacity then as Minister of HR&E, I talked with my Cabinet colleagues and
what we decided to do was ask the SSP Regional Committee to actually take that
on as a project in their area and see if they could come forward with a
resolution that they could offer us, that we could then look to implement. So it
works both ways. It can be on a regional basis. I am sure, undoubtedly, there
will be situations and things will come up that will require us adopting one
particular policy for the Province. In those cases we will do just that.
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Once again, I will question the minister on training - if we could step back
there for a moment. We have industries in the Province that, hopefully, will be
starting - and more importantly, I guess, in my end of the world - in the Voisey's
Bay development. I ask the minister, from a training prospective: Have you
looked at some of the trades, some of the things that may be needed with a
development of that nature? My understanding is that some of the trades that may
be needed are not even available here in the Province. I am wondering - again
from a social plan, because we would not want any development to happen and not
have our own people trained to do the type of work that may be required. I think
it would be a sad commentary - after listening for the past four or five years
the possibility of any development - to have a situation where a project such as
Voisey's Bay, or anything else, announced and find that maybe 30 per cent to
40 per cent of the requirements that would be needed to find work in that
development may not be available here, or the training itself may not be
available here, not necessarily the people who would have the opportunity to
avail of the employment opportunities, but that the training itself would not be
here.
I am just wondering - again, from a strategic point of view - has your
government looked at the requirements for that particular project? What have you
done to address the need to ensure that the opportunities will be there for all
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to participate in, especially the people of my
own district of Placentia & St. Mary's?
CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Indeed, an appropriate question. I say to the hon. member, in fact,
government has been very proactive in this area. We have been, for some time,
actively working at developing a labour market development strategy which has
involved a number of departments of government looking at those very issues,
trying to look at the reality as we see it today, trying to extrapolate as to
where the labour market needs are going to be; looking one, two, three, four, or
five years out.
Also, the hon. member would be pleased to know - I am sure he is already
aware - that this government has also put in place a Labour Market Development
Council which is comprised of representatives from labour, business, and
government departments. This is a group that operates separate from government.
Their primary role is to advise government as to where we need to be looking in
terms of training and where the particular needs are going to be, what skill
sets are going to be required, looking out - as the hon. member mentions,
obviously he has a particular interest in his own area with regard to an
impending development and the implications that it will have for his area, and
that is very valid. Certainly, as a government, we have to be prepared for that
because when opportunities do present themselves we have to make sure that we
are in a position that we can maximize on these. In fact, with the two things
that I have just referenced: we are aware of this and we are working on this
particular issue.
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I am just wondering if the minister, or maybe some other minister - under the
Strategic Literacy Plan; there is a Strategic Literacy Plan carried out by the
Department of Education, I understand. I am just wondering if the minister would
enlighten us on the progress of the plan, the implementation of the plan. I have
had some questions asked to me, in my own district, concerning that. Maybe I
will get some other questions from your comments; but if the minister would be
so kind as to maybe just enlighten the House on the Strategic Literacy Plan and
what is happening with that at the present time.
Thank you.
CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Education.
MS FOOTE: Let me thank the member for his questions about the Strategic
Literacy Plan and for his interest in it. It is an issue that is of great
concern, I think, for all of us when we look at the rate of illiteracy in our
Province and how we are going to address that issue.
I have to say, as well, that we are no different than any other province in
the country. We are all taking steps to try and improve the rate of literacy in
our Province. This is why this government is very proud that we, in fact, have a
Strategic Literacy Plan which has received great compliments from across the
country. We are very pleased about that, that they recognize that we are trying
to do things and trying to do them as expeditiously as we can.
The plan itself certainly looks at where we are as a Province and how best to
go forward to deal with the issue of illiteracy. One of the issues we have, and
the member opposite mentioned it, in fact, when you talk about Level I, Level II
and Level III. We are very pleased that the College of the North Atlantic has,
in fact, taken on responsibility, where they can, for delivering Levels II and
III. In fact, some of the campuses across the Province have been very
accommodating and, where they can, have taken in Level I students, recognizing
that if they are able to work with them to bring them from Level I to Level II -
it just takes a little bit of time to do that and then they bring them onstream.
They have them in as Level II and on to Level III.
Of course, the good thing about having them involved with the College of the
North Atlantic is that they do not do this in isolation. They look at working
with our people to try and increase their literacy skills but also look at how
best they can take them forward in terms of looking at employment opportunities.
So it is a very good environment for us to be delivering Levels II and III
because we do it again in concert with - not just making sure that they come up
to scratch in terms of literacy skills, but what about employment prospects?
What about taking them further so that they can become productive members of
society and have a lot of confidence in their own abilities? The College of the
North Atlantic is a good environment in which to do that .
One of the issues we have still, that we are grappling with, is Level I. I do
know that there is some, I guess, discussion around a report that was done
looking at the delivery of Level I in the Province. That is being offered
through different entities now - Rabbittown, for instance, is one of the areas
where we are offering Level I. There were still a lot of concerns that it is not
being offered in as many areas as we would like to see it offered throughout
Newfoundland and Labrador.
We had a report done looking at the services that are being offered. In fact,
it was a Goss Gilroy report. That report came in and we shared with all of the
stakeholders, those concerned about the delivery of literacy programs in the
Province. There were some concerns with the recommendations contained in the
report because, I guess, the authors of the report, when they were doing the
research, were asked to look at how we could deliver more effectively and
efficiently the same service, working with the resources that we have available
to us. The recommendations that came back didn't exactly meet with favour with
all of the stakeholders. I know it is hard to please everyone anyway, but I
think there was sufficient enough concern that we undertook to involve the
stakeholders in looking at the Goss Gilroy report, and maybe coming forward with
their own recommendations on how best to proceed. That is looking at Level I,
and we recognize that there is an issue there.
You will recall that a couple of years ago both levels of government, the
federal and the provincial governments, each put $1 million into a foundation,
the interest of which was to be used to deliver literacy programs throughout the
Province. We have been able to realize some of that, but still we are now
looking at trying to increase that amount of money and trying to involve the
private sector as well. We recognize that we need more than what we have
available to us at this time, to do what we need to do with literacy programs.
In terms of the Strategic Literacy Plan, we are working with all of the
stakeholders in literacy in the Province, and, of course, there are so many
things happening, more than which I have knowledge of. In fact, I have asked for
a list of all of the literacy programs that are being delivered in this Province
to see if we can probably look at doing it in a more efficient and effective
way. That is, again, coming out of the Strategic Literacy Plan, as something
that we should be doing.
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I certainly thank the minister for enlightening us on that. Certainly, as I
thought, it would draw out a few questions.
I spoke to the Minister of Health earlier concerning the development, I
guess, or the implementation of literacy programs at the youngest level
possible. I have had a concern raised with me in the past few weeks of the
possibility of some cutbacks - I will use the word cutbacks - and some
reductions in student assistants in some of the schools in my district. I know
of one particular situation and I know of several others also, but there is a
major concern with some of the parents there. We all, I guess, over the past
number of years have seen a mainstreaming of students into the regular classroom
wherever possible, socially and everything else, and it is great. We all
understand that. But at the same time, we have to understand that there is a
need, I guess, certainly from a reading and other work that is done at the
school level - student assistants have proven in many, many cases to be very
helpful in their roles at that level.
I am just wondering, Minister, if you could just give some word of optimism
to the parents who are out there, the several who have raised it with me in my
district, and others, of the continuation of the role of student assistants, and
the fact that the requirements - I am not, to be honest with you, 100 per cent
sure exactly what you need to have a student assistant in place. Maybe you can
give us some thoughts on that very important issue.
CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Education.
MS FOOTE: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Again, I again I thank the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's for his
question and for his interest in this issue.
Just to speak to the whole issue around student assistants, and the need for
them in the school system, I can tell you that there no intention by this
government to remove student assistants from the system. I think, as you point
out, the objective of this government and others has been to integrate our
students wherever possible, students with special needs into the regular
classroom stream. Having said that, of course, that is always open for debate
and parents have their own views on how much integration should take place. Some
will say they should be totally integrated and have the supports in the
classrooms. Others will say, depending on the level of disability, the child
should be in a special needs environment. So, we are trying to work with both
viewpoints and I think we are doing a good job of that.
One of the issues, I think, when you talk about student assistants, and how a
student would be entitled to a student assistant, I guess you have to look at a
program we have in place called Pathways. I am not sure if you are familiar with
that. That, in fact, looks at students, particularly students with special
needs, whether they are of a minor nature or a severe or medium nature. It looks
at individual student needs, working with the parents, working with the supports
at the school, working with the health care system, working with the Department
of Human Resources and Employment. They all come together to see how we can best
deliver education to our children. Then they will have their own, what we call
an ISSSP team who will work with them and especially with the parents to make
sure the supports of the child's needs are in fact put in place to ensure that
the child will indeed get a quality education.
Having said that, sometimes what happens is that you could have a classroom
where you would have one child who requires the support of a student assistant;
but that does not mean, if you had two children in that classroom, that you
could not use the one student assistant to support two children. The problem
comes, of course - they are called student assistants, and maybe that was a
mistake. Maybe they should have been called teacher assistants, as has happened
in other provinces, because the minute that you suggest to a parent in some
cases that you now have to share that student assistant, then that becomes an
issue because they think: No, it is the student assistant of my child. That is
not what it was intended to be. It was meant to be support in the classroom for
a student, whether or not there was one student, two or three, depending on
again the nature of the problem.
I have to tell you that when I speak to my colleagues across the country and
look at the need for special services in our education system, this Province
probably spends more per student based upon our ability to pay, but we are
looking at - we spend over $70 million in our system on an annual basis on
special needs. In terms of student assistants, categorical teachers, special
education teachers, guidance counsellors, all of the supports that are in place
to support our children who need them, this Province has done very well.
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Just as a follow-up to something that the minister mentioned earlier, and
certainly it is a major issue in the Province that I talked about with the
Minister of Health in relation to Level I, the suggestion was made, if I
understand correctly from the minister, you are looking at ways of bringing
forward Level I and implementing Level I into the Province.
Somebody raised an issue with me a short while ago concerning the fact of the
locations of Level I, and the minister again touched on Rabbit Town, but many
parts of rural Newfoundland, I am sure the minister is fully aware, have
difficulty in travelling, and the transportation involved in getting to
somewhere where Level I would be offered. I would like to ask the minister: Has
there been any consideration, which was raised to me, in relation to finding
some of the high schools in the Province and trying to bring Level I, not even
necessarily to the classroom of Levels I, II and III and Grades 10, 11 and 12,
but the Level I that we are talking about and, because of the locations of the
schools throughout the Province and the opportunity it would be for others, and
the infrastructure already in place in some cases, has there been any thought
given to bringing that forward in that manner, especially for rural Newfoundland
and the places where the people just do not have the opportunity? Even if it is
offered in the region, sometimes it is at a disadvantage to people who are on
fixed incomes, people where child care is involved and other things are
involved, because where they could sit back if they could receive their Level I
through some manner, they could go to HRDC then and possibly receive some
funding, or some other avenues and receive some funding, to do Levels II and III
which would take care of some of these incidental expenses that they have such
as child care and transportation.
I am just wondering, in relation to delivering Level I, and you touched on
it, has there been any thought given to utilizing the schools or some
organizations of that manner where you could deliver Level I in a cost-effective
way but at least open to more people in the Province?
CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Education.
MS FOOTE: The member makes some very valid points because, I think, again
if you look at delivering Level I, we have to look at where it is easily
accessible for people in rural Newfoundland. I have to say that there is a lot
of that taking place now around the Province. We do, in fact, have Level I being
offered very extensively throughout Newfoundland and Labrador but we need to do
more and we are working toward that.
With respect to your point in terms of high school, the one thing we have to
bear in mind - and I know you recognize this - is that when you talk about
illiteracy, people are very embarrassed and people who want to avail of services
want to do so, in most cases, with people who have similar problems, who are at
similar disadvantage, and they want to come together as a group, and maybe, you
know, on an individual basis as you mentioned; but, there is always a concern
when you bring - and I have had this mentioned to me - people who have problems
into an environment where there are younger people who are doing well. If you
were to bring them into the high school environment, it would have to be at a
time when high school wasn't happening. It would have to be probably in the
evening. Maybe that is something we should be looking at. Maybe we can utilize
our schools. I think you make a very valid point in terms of venues for
delivering literacy services in rural Newfoundland, because, again, it would
have to be, I think, in the best interests of those who are looking to avail of
the service in an environment in which they are comfortable and therefore will
make the necessary progress.
You do make a valid point, I am sure, in all of these, and I will bring that
back to those who are looking at the Goss Gilroy report, and all of the
stakeholders who are involved in that, when they are looking at how best to
deliver Level I, to also look at locations and look at rural Newfoundland; but I
have to say that, again, from what I have seen to date - and I have asked for a
complete list - there are a lot of programs being offered throughout
Newfoundland and Labrador, in rural parts of our Province, in terms of
delivering Level I literacy programs.
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for St. John's West.
MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to refer back under Strategic Social Plan, subhead 2.6.01.01.,
and that is Salaries. My colleague asked the minister some questions on the 50
per cent of the expenditure of the Strategic Social Plan, that being over $1
million on Salaries. I wonder if the minister could elaborate a little bit more
in terms of how many people are employed, where they are located, and things, to
consume the $1 million salary.
CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
There are, in fact, eighteen employees in total. That is the total number,
and they are broken out there: seven at the unit - this would be based in the