Manitoba Hansard — 26 May 2021 (Sitting 69, 42nd Legislature, 3rd Session)

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Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXV No. 69 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, May 26, 2021 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ADAMS, Danielle Thompson NDP ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey, Hon. Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon. Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg, Hon. Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek, Hon. Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott Assiniboia PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib.

LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC MOSES, Jamie St. Vital NDP NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REYES, Jon Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron, Hon.

Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC

3495 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, May 26, 2021 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Clerk (Ms. Patricia Chaychuk): It is my duty to inform the House that the Speaker is unavoidably absent. Therefore, in accordance with the statutes, I would ask the Deputy Speaker to please take the Chair. Mr. Deputy Speaker (Doyle Piwniuk): O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as they may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province.

Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only which is in accordance with Thy will, that we seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. Please be seated. Good afternoon, everyone. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 236–The Protecting Communications on Public Interest Matters Act (Court of Queen's Bench Act and Defamation Act Amended) Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns ): I move, seconded by the member for Point Douglas (Mrs.

Smith), that Bill 236, The Protecting Communications on Public Interest Matters Act (Court of Queen's Bench Act and Defamation Act Amended), be now read a first time. Motion presented. Ms. Fontai ne: I'm pleased to introduce Bill 236, The Protecting Communications on Public Interest Matters Act, Court of Queen's Bench Act and Defamation Act amendment. This bill will protect citizens from strategic lawsuits against their public participation when they are speaking up on a matter of public interest.

Bill 236 would also limit the abilities of large corporations and wealthy individuals to intimidate or silence individuals' freedoms of speech and ex- pression with a lawsuit. I hope Bill 236 will rec eive the unanimous support of this Assembly. Miigwech. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 234–The Consumer Protection Amendment Act (Right to Repair) Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I move, seconded by the member for Fort Rouge (Mr. Kinew), that Bill 234– Mr. Deputy Speaker: Oh, order. Order. I just want to remind–oh, just one second.

So you have to do it all over again. We just want to make sure that the person who seconded has to be in their seat or on Zoom. Mr. Maloway: I move, seconded by the member for Fort Rouge, that Bill 234, The Consumer Protection Amendment Act (Right to Repair), be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Maloway: The right to repair legislation em - powers Manitoba consumers and fosters sustainability by requiring manufacturers of electronic devices and appliances to make information, parts and tools necessary for repairs available to consumers and independent repair shops at a reasonable price.

Products covered by this right to repair legislation would include smart phones, tablets, laptops, washers, dryers, refrigerators. Manitoba consumers would have the same right to repair as consumers in the European Union have beginning this year. Canada produces 757,000 tons of electronic waste annually and right to repair legislation will be a giant leap forward in reducing this waste by giving Manitobans access to products that are made better and last longer. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is it pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed]

3496 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2021 COMMITTEE REPORTS Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs Eighth Report Mr. James Teitsma (Chairperson): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I wish to present the eighth report of the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs. Clerk (Ms. Patricia Chaych uk): Your Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs presents the following as its Eighth Report. Meetings Your Committee met on May 25, 2021 at 6:00 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building.

Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 217) – The Legislative Assembly Amendment and Legislative Assembly Manage - ment Commission Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'Assemblée législative et la Lo i sur la Commission de régie de l'Assemblée législative Committee Membership As per the Sessional Order passed by the House on October 7, 2020, amended on November 19, 2020, December 3, 2020, and further amended on May 18, 2021, Rule 83(2) was waived for t he May 25, 2021 meeting, reducing the membership to six Members (4 Government and 2 Official Opposition). • Hon. Mr. EWASKO • Ms. FONTAINE • Mr. MICHALESKI • Hon. Mr. PEDERSEN • Mr. TEITSMA • Mr. WIEBE Your Committee elected Mr. TEITSMA as the Chairperson. Your Commit tee elected Mr. MICHALESKI as the Vice-Chairperson.

Non-Committee Members Speaking on Record • Hon. Mr. GERRARD Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following three presentations on Bill (No. 217) – The Legislative Assembly Amendment and Legislative Assembly Management Commission Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'Assemblée législative et la

Loi sur la Commission de régie de l'Assemblée législative: Patrick Falconer, Private citizen Lloyd Talbot, Private citizen Lloyd Axworthy, Private citizen Written Submissions Your Committee received the following written submission on Bill (No. 217) – The Legislative Assembly Amendment and Legislative Assembly Management Commission Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'Assemblée législative et la

Loi sur la Commission de régie de l'Assemblée législative: Paul Thomas, Private citizen Bills Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 217) – The Legislative Assembly Amendment and Legislative Assembly Manage - ment Commission Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'Assemblée législative et la

Loi sur la Commission de régie de l'Assemblée législative Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment Mr. Teitsma: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member for Dauphin (Mr. Michaleski), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Now we'll go on to tabling of reports? Ministerial statements? MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Will Gault Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Finance): Today, I want to shine a light on one of Kirkfield Park's constituents, Will Gault, owner of Willy Dogs hot dog cart.

Back in 2015, Willy was on the streets of Winnipeg, homeless, addicted to alcohol and meth, and struggling to get ahead. He had lost his job as a peace officer and had been in treatment four times before deciding a change of scenery might help him as he moved to Brandon.

May 26, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3497 In Brandon, Will suffered a withdraw seizure and decided to seek further addictions treatment with the support of Addictions Foundation of Manitoba. After some time in a crisis stabilization unit in Brandon, Will eventually made his way back to Winnipeg with the help of Two Ten Recovery, an organization that provides home atmosphere while promoting sobriety by offering a safe, structured and independent living environment. Will has proudly been sober for six years, as he's celebrating with his family.

During this time, he has turned his life around, which includes starting his own business, Willy Dogs, getting married to his partner Courtney, buying a home and now having two daughters who keep him extremely busy, Ireland, who is four, and Taylor, who is one. Being a small -business owner during the pan- demic has been difficult, but Will has been–very supportive community behind him.

As a result of this support, Will has been able to give back some proceeds from his organization, from his business, to different organizations that helped him and his family along the way, that includes Two Ten Recovery and the Children's Hospital. He has also fundraised tw ice for the newly opened Bruce Oake Recovery Centre, and is currently supporting the St. Boniface hospital by offering customers the opportunity to gift a food voucher to front -line workers through September on his website at willydogs.ca. Will Gault is an example of perseverance, hard work and determination, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

His journey has not been a easy one but it is an inspi - rational one, and we are lucky to have people like Will Gault in Kirkfield Park who continue to give back to the community. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Julie and Liam Western Ms. Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): I rise today to speak on behalf of Wolseley constituents Julie Western and her 12-year-old son Liam, who was diagnosed with epilepsy at 15 months of age. Liam also lives with Tourette's syndrome, ADHD and an intellectual disability.

Julie was thrilled in May 2017, when private donors donated $2 million to open a pediatric epilepsy program at Children's Hospital. * (13:40) At that press conference, Manitobans were told that the new pediatric epilepsy and pediatric neuro- surgery program would consist of a two -bed moni - toring unit, two pediatric epilepsy neurologists, a pediatric epilepsy surgery program and the acquisition of a specialized robotic navigation system called ROSA. ROSA helps surgeons perform complex neurosurgical procedures in a minimally invasive way. The acting Health Minister should recall the promises made that day.

Families were promised a 2018 start date, shorter hospital stays and no more travelling out of province for testing or surgeries. They were told this program could change their lives forever. Instead, it's yet another broken promise from this government. Liam requires specific testing to determine if brain surgery is the right course of treatment for him, but he still must travel out of province for that test. Many Manitoban children are on the wait -list for surgeries that can't be done at home because the Province has not purchased the promised ROSA technology.

This month, this government announced an adult epilepsy monitoring expansion, but they still haven't kept the promises they made to children and their families four years ago. After four years of waiting and broken promises, Liam and Julie and families like theirs have waited long enough. I demand that this government fulfill its promise to Manitoba children with epilepsy. Liam is still waiting for his life to change. Dauphin 2021 Graduates Mr. Brad Michaleski (Dauphin): As we approach June, schools across the province are making final preparations for the conclusion of another year.

Students are completing final assignments and exams while looking ahead to the fall as plans for their futures take shape. It is another year in which things look quite different, however today I s peak encouragement to our youth and to those who have been supporting them all the way along. Last year, schools and communities in my constituency of Dauphin were innovative in finding unique and safe ways to support and cheer on their graduates.

Several communities held drive -in ceremonies, many had community parades, some put up lawn signs and others hung banners on main street to honour the achievements and hard work of our graduates. Extended newspaper tributes, live streams,

3498 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2021 and recorded video messa ges were assembled. Communities came together in spirit to safely and collectively cheer on these young people, and I look forward to this year's graduation festivities with enthusiasm. This has not been an easy year for many of our graduates. As they look to graduation, I encourage them to find ways to mark this 'ocquasion' and celebrate their successes and achievements. This is the marking of a milestone, and there is a bright future with many opportunities ahead.

Parents, teachers, friends and communit y mem- bers have done so much to support our graduates already. I encourage them to participate in this year's celebrations in any way they are able, and I wish all participants the very best. Let's all take time to join together in supporting and cheering on our graduating class of 2021. Thank you. Leftovers Foundation Mr. Diljeet Brar (Burrows): I am honoured to recognize Leftovers Foundation rescue food, and the immense contributions of the Winnipeg city lead co - ordinator, Brandy Bobier.

COVID-19 has emphasized food insecurity in Winnipeg but people like Brandy address it in a practical, productive way that deserves our appre - ciation and gratitude. The foundation launched in Winnipeg on World Food Day on October 16th, 2020. Volunteers use a mobile app to transport food, otherwise destined for the landfill, from grocery stores and businesses to communities in need. The foundation relies on our community, and an example of this is the weekly donation of 4,000 pounds of potatoes from Peak of the Ma rket.

Before the end of 2020, 16,000 pounds of food were redirected back into the community here in Winnipeg, which contributed to the almost 600,000 pounds collected across the country. The foundation depends on donations from businesses, volunteers picking up and delivering food, and their partnership with Altoba Freight Systems, who help them achieve their monthly average of picking up 50,000 pounds of food. On behalf of members here today, thank you to all the businesses and volunteers who make this w ork happen and a special thank you to Brandy for her commitments to Leftovers Foundation rescue food.

I encourage all Winnipeggers to learn about the foundation and support them in addressing food insecurity here in our city. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Carman Area and Miami Area Foundations Hon. Blaine Pedersen (Minister of Agriculture and Resource Development): Today I wish to recognize two very important and dedicated foundations within my constituency: the Carman Area Foundation, and the Miami area foundation. The Carman Area Foundation has done tremen- dous work in supporting community projects and initiatives.

This community foundation was estab- lished in 1998 and uses the income earned to make grants towards a wide range of charitable groups that benefit our local communities. Some of the funds that the Carman Area Foundation have assisted include the Carman Memorial Hospital Fund, the Carman Collegiate youth philanthropy fund, the Carman golf and curling fund, RM of Grey, Roland community fund, Boyne library fund and many more. To date, the Carman Area Foundation has gifted over $900,000 to the Town of Carman and surrounding communities.

The Miami area foundation is another foundation within my constituency that I would like to recognize for their immense contributions to our province and the community of Miami. They have established funds and awarded annual grants for the community of Miami since 2010. The Miami area foundation has provided an avenue for people to leave a lasting legacy, and has gifted in excess of $65,000. A few of their most recent grant recipients include the Miami railway museum, Miami Ag Society, Miami sports complex and the Miami cenotaph.

Thank you to the volunteers of both the Miami area foundation and the Carman Area Foundation, for all the work you do to support your local com - munities. Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker.

May 26, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3499 Deputy Speaker's Statement Mr. Deputy Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I have a statement for the House. One of our pages is serving her last day at the Chamber today and I want to share some comments in–with the House. Addison Franklin is a young Indigenous woman who will be graduating from the Murdoch MacKay Collegiate with advanced entry acceptance in the integrated educati on program at the University of Winnipeg. She hopes one day to teach First Nations reserves, to help give the children a chance to reach their full potential.

Addison says that, through being a page, she has found a passion for politics and hopes one day –be standing in the Chamber as an MLA, and I'm sure that's going to happen. And Addison, all the best for–on behalf of all the members of this Chamber, I want to congratulate you and–on graduating and going on to bigger and better things. And I just want to say how well you did on doing all the votes. You did a very excellent job. Thank you. * * * Mr. Deputy Speaker: Now for oral questions. ORAL QUESTIONS Transfer of ICU Patients Out of Province Patient Safety Concerns While in Transport Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): As of yesterday, there were 18 patients who had been sent to Ontario from Manitoba ICUs, maybe more. Others are on their way to Saskatchewan. Patients in ICU are some of the sickest of Manitobans, and they are there because they need life- saving health care, not blame. It is a great risk to transfer these patients. This must only be done as a last resort. Manitobans who are seeing their loved ones moved across the country need assurance they are receiving the best possible care.

Will the Premier tell this House what the standards during transport are for patients being moved out of province so we can be sure they receive the care they deserve? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): I thank the member for the question, and I think it's critical, during this pandemic, with, in particular, the spikes in cases and hospitalizations and the subsequent need for ICU services, to note that the expansion that we have made, which is approximately double what was there when we came to government, is not adequate given the number of cases, and that we have reached out and asked for help from our partners in the federation and others to assist us. * (13:50) And that, I think, will be a short -term need but, nonetheless, it is a need that needed to be addressed and we've addressed it as a government, always bearing in mind the need for maximum safety for all of our patients in every respect –not just COVID patients, but all of our patients in our hospitals and facilities.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: There are dozens of Manitobans who are being sent out of province. These are some of the sickest Manitobans. These patients need life -saving medical treatment. Now, any time an ICU patient is moved or transported, that adds risk–a risk to the patient, a risk to their health. Now, we need to know that every precaution and every measure is taken to keep these patients safe.

The Premier should confirm for the House: are all the planes equipped for and are all the staff on board up to the task of caring for ICU patients? Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable leader of the– I mean, the honourable First Minister, sorry. Mr. Pallister: Thank you to my colleague for the question. It's an important one. It should be noted that the safety of patients in transit is a concern now but was a concern always throughout our health-care system and that our health officials have always been conscious of the need to address this.

The previous government commissioned the Peachey report to evaluate the situation with respect to emergency and, in part, ICU services, and the recommendation was that excessive movement of patients was a consequence of inadequately equipped ICUs. We've addressed that prior to this pandemic and continue to during it.

3500 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2021 Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Transporting a patient who is ventilated always introduces risk. Now, we used to have world-class medical trans- portation here in Manitoba, but they privatized Lifeflight and now that work is done by private companies. We know –we need to know that these services, when moving the sickest of patients, are up to the task.

The government has updated the public on ICU patients who've arrived at their destination in other provinces, but is the Premier keeping the public informed of all attempts to transport patients out of province? Mr. Pallister: It's good the member raises this issue. It is important and it's imperative during this time, in particular with an unprecedented pandemic creating incredible pressures for our front-line workers, incre- dible pressures on all involved, including in patient transport.

His reference to privatization should have, of course, included the NDP's untendered contract to the STARS helicopter service as well, and I know he omits that. But that being said, Dr. Peachey had noted that the necessity for transferring patients from emergency rooms t o other emergency rooms because of in - adequate equipment–and, in some cases, inadequate expertise in the facility–was putting Manitoba patients at high risk. I would include in that, of course, people who had to be transported again and had to be ventilated when transported.

This was a reality in the past, a sad reality that we've addressed as best we can since coming to government by doubling the number of fully equipped and trained and staffed ICUs. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a different question. Transfer of COVID-19 Patient Inquiry Into Patient's Death Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Now, we don't yet know how many Manitobans will be transported out of province from ICUs in Manitoba, but we do know that they are being transported out of province because they can't receive the care that they need here at home.

Now, that's because our health-care system is overwhelmed. It is in a crisis. We know when crises hit we need to be open and honest with Manitobans. Manitobans deserve to know the truth and to know the facts. Will the Premier confirm for the House if any patients have died while in transport to other pro- vinces or as a result of an attempt to transport them out of province? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): I appreciate the member referencing the need for frankness and truth. I haven't seen it evidenced by his willingness to address his own background, his own record, frankly and honestly.

That being said, I'm not aware of a nyone who's passed away as a direct consequence of what the member has just referred to. I can only say to the member we certainly hope and pray that that is not the case. And I can also say that the–one of the direct consequences of the federal support –which I will be able to give members additional detail on, I hope, tomorrow, as far as our asks for support in terms of a number of categories–is that we will hope to have less need as we move forward for–well, hope is important to have in this circumstance .

It's important to hope, and I would say to the member he shouldn't dash that hope. The fact is we hope not to be able–we hope to be able to say that we have not needed to transfer as many people or any people in the future. That will depend, of course, on vaccination rates. It will depend on the behaviour of people adhering to– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable First Minister's time is up. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Manitobans deserve to know the facts. Manitobans deserve to know what is happening in our health-care system right now.

During the second wave, it took anonymous whistle -blowers to reveal the situation that was unfolding at the Maples Personal Care Home. That tragedy was complete ly preventable. It could've been addressed earlier. We're in a similarly dire situation and Manitobans deserve to know the facts, what is going on in our health-care system right now.

May 26, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3501 Will the Premier confirm for this House that a patient with COVID -19 w ho was supposed to be transported out of province died after being sent to Ottawa, Ontario? Mr. Pallister: Well, I won't confirm what the member is saying, and I think it's disappointing that he would choose to put something on the record like that. That' s–if it's factual, fine. If it's not, then it's deplorable that he would do it.

All I can say is I've answered his question honestly, and I would like him to answer questions about his background and his willingness to run as a candidate in a provincial e lection without revealing his own personal record and to address those. It's an opportunity for the member to come clean on these issues. They'll follow him around like a shadow. They'll follow him around if he doesn't confront them, and I'm only saying when the member raises issues like this and talks about openness and transparency, he needs to behave accordingly. Now, I am.

I have answered his question as best I can and I'll continue to answer all his questions, but I'd appreciate it if he answered some of the accountability questions, like why did he break public health orders and yet not apologize for it? I'd appreciate that. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary question. Health-Care System Staff Whistle-Blower Protection Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Well, I've been called worse. Our health -care system is essential. During this third wave, it's a matter of life and death for Manitobans.

Yesterday, doctors told us six Manitobans died while waiting for cardiac surgery. That is an incredible loss, and we should recognize and admire the courage of the physicians for speaking out. We know that whistle -blowers deserve pro - tection. Will the Premier guarantee that w histle-blowers in the health -care system will receive every whistle - blower protection that they deserve for speaking up about incidents like this? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, the member, when it was found by an independent arm's -length adjudicator that one of his caucus members had harassed a civil servant, decided to organize a gang of his colleagues and say that they weren't supposed to be having the rules applied to them. That's what the member did. So the member speaks–[interjection]–about pro- tecting people. We've brought in legislation and actions to protect the people who work in our civil service to demonstrate the sincerity of our effort, and the member says he is above that and doesn't need to behave accordingly.

All I can say is ther e's a contradiction there, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We'll continue to protect our civil servants in every possible way, such as against attacks by the member opposite deploring the work of our vaccine team and our medical health leaders that he continually lau nches, and shame on him for doing that. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a different question. Transfer of COVID-19 Patient Inquiry Into Patient's Death Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): We're at 2 p.m., May 26th, 2021.

CBC just published a story approximately nine minutes ago: Manitoban with COVID-19 dies after attempt at transport out of province for care. * (14:00) Did the Premier know about this during his previous answers? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): The member asked me a question about a patient being transferred to Ottawa, a moment ago, and I answered the question exactly as he asked it, and accurately and honestly, and I will continue to do that as we move forward. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Kinew: Well, let's review the question that was asked, verbatim: Will the Premier confirm for this House a patient with COVID-19 who was supposed to be transported out of province died after being sent to Ottawa, Ontario? Those were the words that –the question was just posed. I'll share for the benefit of the Premier the details that are –have now been made public: a Manitoban with COVID-19 has died after an attempt was made to transport the patient out of province to receive care. Medically stable but critically ill patient was

3502 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2021 identified for transport to Ontario, destabilized prior to takeoff earlier this week. It provides more details on this, but it's clear that this was a person –a Manitoban just like us –who was in intensive-care unit, here in the province, and was sent to Ottawa, Ontario. The question was framed in a way to reflect the facts as they have been reported. Why did the Premier mislead the House ear lier today in question period? Mr.

Pallister: Though the member has some expertise in misleading people, I will not address any- thing but the question he asked, and he asked a question specifically about a patient passing away as a consequence of being transferred to Ottawa. I have no awareness of any such case. And so, to answer a hypothetical question like that in any way other than I have already done would be misleading, and I will not mislead this House. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: The information reported comes from a Shared Health statement.

The Premier would have been aware. The Minister of Health would have been aware. Were the other members of Cabinet aware? I don't have any information to indicate that they were. It's clear that the Premier misled the House today about a damning turning point in the pandemic fight. I'll let him reflect on that. But the situation is this: a Manitoban who could have been kept stable in an intensive-care unit here in our province passed away because they were moved. They were moved because of the strain put on our health-care system.

We've gone into great detail about the origins of the strain on our health-care system. However, we need to know from the Premier right now: What will be done immediately to ensure that this never happens again? Mr. Pallister: Well, the member, in his

preambles, is apparently unclear of the facts, and so it doesn't enable me to answer a specific question. It's, rather, a diatribe about the dangers of transport. Transport is done all the time. Transport of patients is done in non- COVID-pandemic times. People are transported for health care from all over the province, from our northern communities – [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: Transport is done all the time. If the member has a specific question to ask, Mr. Deputy Speaker –[interjection] If the member – [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr.

Pallister: –would choose not to rattle on from his seat now and rather would like to ask a–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –specific question, I would be happy to answer it. I can only say –[interjection]–I can only say that these are perilous times, that patients are in ICUs, that our ICUs are overrun, that they are double in number from what they ever were under the previous government, that we are doing everything we can to care for our patients in the best possible way. If the member has a specific question, I encourage him to ask it.

Transfer of ICU Patients Out of Province Patient Safety Concerns While in Transport MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Mr. Deputy Speaker, the privatization of Lifeflight in Manitoba has left us with gaps in our health -care system. We know that publicly owned and operated medical transportation provides life -saving care. Lifeflight was staffed by critical -care nurses and physicians. This government privatized that essential service. With dozens of patients being moved out of province, we need to know that these patients are receiving the best possible health-care while they're in transportation.

So I ask the Minister of Health –the acting Minister of Health: Will he guarantee for this House that all patients being transported out of province will have the staff and equipment necessary to provide them life-saving medical care? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Acting Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living ): It was the result of an incident, I believe, during the fl ood, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that the former NDP government decided to issue an untendered contract that –which ultimately led to the hiring of STARS, a very large private helicopter medical transport company.

May 26, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3503 That isn't a reflection on the services that STARS provide, and I think they provide excellent service at all times, Mr. Deputy Speaker. But it is the fact that it is a privately run company, a medical transport company, that the members opposite hired. So they're derogatory about a private medical company, but they hired them. [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Order. Order. Order. I'm standing. The honourable member for Union Station, on a supplementary question. MLA Asagwara: Manitobans deserve to know the facts, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

It took anonymous social media posts to learn about the scale of the tragedy at Maples Personal Care Home. Now we're learning more about tragedies in our health- care system from officials from the acting Minister of Health's office. You know, this shouldn't be covered up or hidden, and it appears as though that's what's happening on the other side of the House. That's wrong. Manitobans deserve the facts, and they deserve more from this government. What does the minister intend to do to ensure that the tragedy we've been made aware of today never happens again to a Manitoban? Mr.

Goertzen: If I'm understanding correctly, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the member opposite is putting anonymous social media information as somehow some factual medical information, that the me mbers opposite are taking social media tweets or Facebook posts or Instagram or wherever they're getting it from, and making some sort of medical diagnosis from that. That is not only irresponsible, it's not fair to the family, and I would caution the me mbers opposite to not get their medical advice or their information from anonymous social media accounts, Mr. Deputy Speaker. [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order.

The honourable member for Union Station, on a final supplementary question. MLA Asag wara: Mr. Deputy Speaker, we have seen so much–too much–spin from this government. Instead of taking responsibility, they blame Manitobans. Instead of being open with Manitobans, they choose to hide the facts. And when they're faced with the truth, they blame the messenger; they attack the messenger. Now, we're facing a serious crisis in our health- care system. Dozens of the sickest patients in Manitoba are being sent out of the province. The minister needs to step up and stop blaming others and take responsibility.

What is this government's plan to make sure every patient being transported out of Manitoba is safe? Mr. Goertzen: It is not blaming others to advise the member to not take medical advice or information from anonymous social media accounts, Mr. Deputy Speaker. That is just common sense to be cautious about that and to wait for the facts to come out. When it comes to medical transfer, Mr. Deputy Speaker, throughout this entire pandemic, patients who have had COVID have been transferred – transported in the air.

They've been transported by STARS when there's been emergency calls because they sometimes quickly destabilize in their home communities and they've been transported to the Health Sciences Centre. They've been transported from the North into Winnipeg. Transporting COVID patients by air is not some- thing new, Mr. Deputy Speaker, either in Manitoba or anywhere in Canada. Springs Church Indoor Events Violation of Public Health Orders Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): Manitobans have made tremendous sacrifices the third wave of this pandemic.

That's why it is unconscionable Springs Church would elect to brazenly violate public health rules by holding an indoor event, maskless and with many more people than allowed by our health orders. It's not a one-time event. Leadership of the church have doubled down on their supposed right to break public health orders with all manner of justification: it was a college, it's a movie production. But let us be clear: this event was in violation of the orders. * (14:10) Will the minister explain how this event was wrong and offer a clear condemnation of this event in the House today? Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Acting Minister of Health and Seniors Care): As with all potential or suspected violations o f the public -health orders, there can be allegations that are made. I'll use the example of the Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Kinew). There was an allegation made that the event he held was in violation of the

3504 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2021 public health orders. I understand that there was an investigation. I understand that public health officials attended his office, knocked on the door, issued him either a citation or a warning because he'd violated the public health orders. If the member opposite has any specific infor - mation, she can certainly lay a complaint and an investigation will be done, if it's not already being done, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question. Ms.

Fontaine: Clearly, there's a difference of opinion on this matter within the PC caucus. The Minister responsible for Wellness took to social media stating, and I quote: I have read several posts stating that I was present at the event. To my knowledge, no evidence has been provided to substantiate this claim. This illicit event was also streamed and watched from cars. Did the Minister responsible for Wellness watch this ceremony or not? It is a simple yes or no question. And why has she and the PC caucus done nothing to address this clear breach by Springs Church? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): Two quick points: the member falsely asserts no action's been taken. Understanding is, there are enforcement officials in charge of enforcing. We're not those officials, but we encourage enforce ment officials to enforce. I think that's important. Secondly, on the issue the member highlights a communiqué in part. She quotes it to create a false impression. The member was simply responding– the member for Southdale (Ms. Gordon) was simply responding to an allegation which was false, that she was in attendance at the grad.

Now, members should not attack one another for trying to defend themselves when false allegations are made nor defend one another when true accusations are made, such as those against the leader of that party, who belittled the health orders and violated them clearly. So if the members on that side are anything– [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –but a tag-along gang, there's probably a lot of division on their side about what should be done to remedy that disrespect. [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary question. Ms.

Fontaine: A Manitoban died today that we just found out about, and t hat is the disgraceful response and so-called leadership from the Premier of Manitoba. It's just despicable, Deputy Speaker. The former Health minister says anti -maskers make good points, the Deputy Premier enjoys the company of–with anti-vaxxers, playing up their right to put us all at risk–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Ms. Fontaine: –and now the Minister of Wellness knew about this event but has not taken clear steps to put down clear misrepresentations of the activities at Springs Church.

There's a reason Manitoba is in the catastrophe that it's in, and it is simply because of this government and every single member of that Cabinet. Do the right thing– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member's time is up. Mr. Pallister: We have the strongest health measures in the country. It doesn't matter, if people won't abide by them. The Leader of the Opposition refused to abide by them. [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: His colleagues say nothing about it. They have no co ncerns, apparently, about that. [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr.

Pallister: We also have the strongest enforcement and ticketing regime in the country of Canada, Mr. Speaker. [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The clock is ticking here. Steinbach Regional Secondary School COVID-19 Vaccination Directive to Staff Mr. Nello Altomare (Transcona): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Steinbach Regional Secondary school has asked teachers to refrain from conversation or debate about COVID-19 vaccination. An email has been sent from school administration, and I quote: Please note that these are controversial topics in classrooms, with families. Do not enter into these conversations or debates.

End quote.

May 26, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3505 This is absolutely one hundred per cent incorrect, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We need everyone educating the public about vaccinations. Please, for all of us, get informed about the vaccine. Will the Minister of Education take immediate action to ensure this directive is overturned? Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Education): We, as a government, have been very clear that vaccination is certainly our way out of this pandemic. We are encouraging Manitobans to become vaccinated when that opportunity presents itself.

Today, we have over 60 per cent of our Manitobans who are 18 and over vaccinated. For those 12 and over, it's over 56 per cent. Clearly, we're over the half -way mark, but I will say, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we have a long way to go. We have been educating and trying to educate Manitobans that –of th e importance of vaccination. We're asking and encouraging all Manitobans 12 and over to roll up their sleeves and get vaccinated. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Transcona, on a supplementary question. Mr. Altomare: Mr. Deputy Speaker, we need active leadership on this file. We can't let this sit.

Our kids, our future in this province certainly relies on it. And, you know, our kids really need some positive direction from the department regarding this issue. School administration of 1,700 students that forbids teachers to talk about life-saving vaccines that will help bring this horrible pandemic to an end is absolutely necessary–or, unnecessary, sorry, and it's a shadow what's coming, as this government eviscerates our school system through Bill 64. Will the minister intervene today and for the future by ensuring so- called sensitive content like vaccines and vaccinations are part of classroom dialogue?

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member's time is up. Mr. Cullen: I will table for the House and for opposition members a memo from Dr. Joss Reimer, medical lead, the vaccine 'implemation' task force. This was a document dated May 14th that was sent out through school divisions to parents, guardians, and caregivers. It clearly outlines the safety around vaccination for those aged 12 and up. The information is there, in terms of where parents and caregivers can reach out, where students can reach out. It goes through the respective consent forms and how that process unfolds.

It talks about the contact numbers for vaccination. Again, madam–Mr. Deputy Speaker, I encourage all Manitobans 12 and over to get vaccinated. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Transcona, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Altomare: The Minister of Education must use every tool available to ensure science- based factual information is provided about vaccines and that it is provided to students. Children need the facts about their effectiveness and their safety. That's a service to them and a service to the public.

Will the minister intervene and ensure that all school divisions and all schools, including Steinbach, have a plan in place to educate and inform students about COVID -19 vaccination, and will he do that today? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Acting Minister of Health and Seniors Care): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I was pleased to help open the supersite in Steinbach a couple of weeks ago. I'm glad to see that appointments are filling up. My mom has struggled with COVID. My uncle passed away from COVID. There are many people in the community who have suffered from it.

My wife got the vaccine; I've received the vaccine; my son, who is 14 years old, was very enthusiastic and de - manding that he receive the vaccine, and received it a week ago. Many in the community have struggled. I'm encouraging all of those within the community that I live in–Steinbach–and beyond to protect themselves, protect their loved ones, protect their community and get the vaccine. MPI Agreement with Collision Shops Negotiation Concerns Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): In March, with no warning, MPI cancelled its agreement with over 230 Manitoba collision shops.

They rejected a negotiated settlement and chose strong- arm tactics and misleading statements instead. If MPI can't reach a deal as of June 13th, hundreds of Manitoba businesses and thousands of workers could be out of work, and Manitobans will have no place to get their cars fixed because shops won't be able to do MPI work.

3506 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2021 MPI's offer is brutally one -sided. If col lision shops take it, many will go under, and MPI –a highly profitable government monopoly –is abusing its monopoly power. All they're asking is for MPI to go back to the negotiating table and bargain in good faith for a fair deal. Will the Premier or minister ensure that happens, or will Manitobans wake up on June 14th with nowhere to get their car fixed? * (14:20) Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, what we want to encourage is an understanding that the more vaccines we have in Manitoba, the better.

And I think that getting vaccines in arms is one of the keys to getting us through this very dangerous time for all of us. And so I wanted to emphasize that we have been reaching out and looking for all kinds of options, exploring many, many options to try to get more vaccines into our province. One of the them is to reach out to the United States. We've implored Joe Biden to–President Biden to allow the United States border states to take their surplus vaccines, get them up into Canadian provinces. Yesterday, the Opposition Leader took the position the United States has done enough. We don't agree.

Six per cent –6 per cent of our vaccinations have–vaccines have come from the United States, our largest trading partner, our most important –we to them, as well–the largest trading partner. Six per cent is not adequate. There is no reason not to look for getting more vaccines from the United States into Canadian arms. We'll continue to pursue that option. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question. Mr. Lamont: Back to my question on MPI.

The crisis was created entirely by MPI's decision to bargain in bad faith, and let's be clear, because MPI keeps painting its partners as the bad actors: Saskatchewan collision -repair shops were paid up to 24 per cent more, their rates are sometimes 27 per cent lower, and they pay out larger rebates to citizens. MPI's current offer is outrageous. It literally says that anyone can terminate its contract, quote, for any reason whatsoever. End quote. MPI is not asking for a deal; they're asking for a blank cheque.

It's a deal so bad, it could shut down virtually every collision shop in rural Manitoba as well as many in Winnipeg. We want those shops to be open, working and paying people good wages. Does the Premier agree, and will he tell the board at MPI to smarten up and start negotiating? Mr. Pallister: Well, the member's caught in con - tradiction. He's earlier criticized me for actually not agreeing with the board of Manitoba Hy dro to give $70 million to David Chartrand; he joined with the NDP on that criticism. So I'm not going to double down on the mistake the member claims I've made.

We'll continue to stand up for ratepayers, whether it's not allowing $70 million to go to a guy so he won't sue us or interfering in a negotiation that's under way at MPI. But I would remind all Manitobans: If you don't pay your fines–your COVID fines–you won't be driving your vehicle and you won't have to worry about it. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard), on a final supplementary question. [interjection] Oh, the honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary question. Plan for the Reopening of Schools Request for Early Parental Notification Ms.

Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): This past year, schools, parents and students have demonstrated their ability to be extremely adaptable, but this does not give the government the right to throw last-minute decisions upon those who are affected by s chools, whether they remain closed or reopen. Teachers, EAs and school administrators need to be able to plan accordingly and prepare safety measures. Parents need to be able to plan additional child care and perhaps time off work or being able to go bac k into work. And students have the right to know where they are going to be next week.

Will the minister tell Manitobans today if schools will be reopened next week or if they will remain virtual until the summer break? Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Ed ucation): Certainly, we have taken the stance that we'd like to see as many students as safely as possible in schools getting face -to-face education; that's where they learn best. We recognize we've–working through this pandemic–so we have about half of our schools

May 26, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3507 throughout Manitoba in remote learning and certainly we're monitoring the situation very closely. I look forward, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that Dr. Roussin will be out tomorrow. We'll be making announcements in terms of school going forward for next Monday. Youth and Family Mental Health Services Additional Program Supports Mr. Bob Lagassé (Dawson Trail): The COVID-19 pandemic has challenged the mental health and wellness of Manitobans of all ages and backgrounds.

Our children and youth are facing the added challenge of remote learning and being away from their friends. Can the Minister of Mental Health, Wellness and Recovery please share with the House how our government is ensuring our children and youth have access to services they need to sup port their mental health and wellness during this time? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Mental Health, Wellness and Recovery): I thank the member for Dawson Trail for his question.

Our government is investing an additional $185,000 in the NorWest hub to provide counselling support and physically distanced services to support 50 to 100 new clients, Mr. Deputy Speaker, as well as $60,000 to expand the Families and Schools Together program, which is offered virtually throughout the summer months to help me diate the mental health implications of social isolation and loneliness. These investments, Mr. Deputy Speaker, in mental health and wellness supports will ensure our children and youth have access to the supports they need to cope with the effects of th is ongoing pandemic.

Transfer of COVID-19 Patient Inquiry Into Patient's Death Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): Mr. Deputy Speaker, four questions later, the minister and the Premier are still denying the very facts that are in front of them. Wherever the facts came from –and it turns out they're true–minutes before the Premier answered the question about whether a patient died in transport, CBC posted a story that said they did. Will the minister finally confirm for this House that a patient with COVID-19 died while in transport to Ontario? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Acting Minister of Health and Seniors Care): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, certainly that is not information that has been provided in that way. I would say, however, that during this pandemic, no matter how individuals have died from COVID, whether they were in personal -care homes, whether they died at home –and that has happened as well, Mr. Deputy Speaker–whether they've died in hospital, it is tragic, under this pandemic, that this deadly, deadly disease has taken so many Manitobans. And, of course, every province has gone through a difficult third wave. Our province is as well now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but we will emerge from this third wave. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry, on a supplementary question. Mr. Wasyliw: You know, it takes whistle -blowers– anonymous posts by concerned citizens–to reveal the government's crisis that they have created. They still haven't learned after the tragedies during the second wave. Staffing remains an issue. We don't have the resources we need to care for Manitobans here, so we have to transport them out of province. Why won't this minister be forthcoming and admit to the House that a patient died while in transport? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): We've increased ICU staffing tremendously.

We've doubled the number of ICU beds. But the member speaks about whistle -blowing. The member and his caucus have been part of whistle- blowing by falsely accusing someone in the past. They falsely accused a senior civil servant of wrongdoing. They did it repeatedly. [interjection] They did it repeatedly. They did not have facts, they simply launched false attacks, never thinking for a second about the family of–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –that civil servant, never thinking about that person's–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –mother.

3508 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2021 The member from St. Johns speaks about compassion, not a thought in her mind to the children of a chip–of a civil servant–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –falsely accused. What is important in these instances is to get the facts. What is important is to have them. What is important is to not make false assertions based on rumour without researching. What the members opposite did was deplorable. They–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr.

Pallister: –pushed a civil servant out of the civil service with repeated false accusations they knew to be untrue, and repeating such false accusations may be what they're doing now– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The First Minister's time is up. And oral question period has expired. Speaker's Ruling Mr. Deputy Speaker: I do have a ruling for the House. [interjection] Order. Order. Following oral question period on May 10, 2021, the honourable Official Opposition House Leader (Ms.

Fontaine) raised the matter of privilege re- garding the government's failure to table reports in the House, in contravention of statutory tabling provisions. In raising the matter, the member alleged that the government failed to table reports required by The Fatality Inquiries Act, impeded her ability to do her job as an MLA and to hold the government accountable.

She concluded her remarks by the –by moving the House censure the minister and this government for their failure to respect the laws of this Province and to put forward information to the Assembly required by statute, and to require the government to publish all reports of the Chief Medical Examiner no later than by May 15th, 2021. * (14:30) The honourable Government House Leader (Mr. Goertzen) and the honourable member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard) also spoke to the matter of privilege before I took it under advisement. I thank the members for their advice to the Chair.

The members know there are two conditions that must be satisfied in order for a matter of raised to rule an order as a prima facie case of privilege: (1) was the issue raised at the earliest available opportunity; and (2) was sufficient evidence provided to support the member's claim that their privileges, or the privileges of the House, were breached. The honourable Official Opposition House Leader asserted that she was raising this issue on the earliest opportunity, stating that she required time to research the relevant facts from the Legislative Library, only received them after the House started for the day.

Regarding this assertion, I must point out that the member referenced that the most recent report in question here had been tabled on March 2020, and that the report of the year 2017–this suggests that the member could have raised the matter months, if not years, before she did. Therefore, I would rule that the member did not meet the test of timeliness at–on this matter.

Regarding the question of whether the evidence provided sufficiently demonstrated a prima facie breach of privilege has occurred, the third edition House of Commons Procedure and Practice provides some guidance: the footnote from page 443 of the volume described on April 1993 ruling made by the house common–the House of Commons Speaker John Fraser. This ruling involved a situation where the then federal government failed to table a document in a timely manner as required by statute.

In ruling on the matter of privilege, Speaker Fraser noted that the members cannot function if they do not have access to the material that they need to do their work. In order to allow further discussion of the issue between government and opposition, he found that there was a prima facie case of privilege. When the current Manitoba Speaker ruled on similar matter on March 8th, 2021, she referenced consultations of procedure staff of the House of Commons.

Those consultations confirmed that the issue of timely t abling of reports and documents of compliance with statutory provisions continues to be relevant and that the prima facie matter of privilege could be found if it was demonstrated that there was a failure to table such materials as required by law. In order to determine whether the prima facie case of privilege exists, it is necessary to confirm that statutory tabling requirements referenced, and also verify whether the reports were or were not tabled within a legal mandated period.

In raising the manner of–the honourable Official Opposition House Leader noted that three reports were not tabled in a timely manner and accordance to the statutory provisions. Specifically, she referenced that:

(1) section 41(1),

May 26, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3509 that The Fatality Inquiries Act states that, on or before March 31st each year, the Chief Medical Examiner shall submit a written report to the minister regarding the deaths of which occurred during the year of the residents in custodial facilities, psychiatric facilities or developmental centres; and (2) as May 10th, 2021, no such report had been tabled in the House since March 19th, 2020, when the report for the year 2017 was tabled. I can confirm that the House –that the member has–correct on both of these points.

I can also confirm that on May 17th, 2021, the honourable Minister of Justice (Mr. Friesen) tabled the 2018, 2019 and 2020 reports required by

section 43(1) of The Fatality Inquiries Act. While I appreciate the minister providing these reports to the House, the fact that they were tabled a week after the honourable Opposition House Leader raised this matter in no way negates her original points. In speaking of the matter of privilege, the honour- able Government House Leader (Mr. Goertzen) noted that over the last year, as the Province respo nded to the COVID-19 crisis, many civil servants have been called upon to do 'exinory' things and work on 'extranordinary' hours.

According, he asked that the members of the Assembly review the matter in this context. I am certainly sympathetic of the chal lenges that we all faced this year as a society due to COVID-19 pandemic, the provincial government included. However, the Speaker does not have author- ity to override the statutory requirement for the tabling of these reports, even if there may be valid i n– 'extentuating' circumstances that caused delay in the preparations and tabling of the reports.

Given that the reports in question were not tabled in accordance with statutory requirements, and due to the precedents of the 1993 ruling by the House of Commons Speaker Fraser, and on March 8, 2021 ruling of the current Manitoba Speaker, a prima facie case of privilege could not be –could have been established in this case. However, in –the issue of timeliness must be reconsidered in this matter. Granted, the requirement of timeliness does not necessarily supersede the requirement of evidence. In this case, however, the Official Opposition House Leader (Ms.

Fontaine) could have raised this matter any time after March 31, 2019. Due to the delay of over two years, I am obliged to rule that the prima facie case of privilege has not been established, as the matter was certainly not raised in a timely manner. * * * Mr. Deputy Speaker: Now we'll go on to petitions. PETITIONS Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara)? No? The honourable member for Keewatinook (Mr. Bushie)? The honourable member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard)? Menstrual Product Availability Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Yes, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I wish to pres ent the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: Many individuals have faced challenges in obtaining and affording period necessities. In Manitoba, women, non-binary individuals and trans people have been denied free access to essential period necessities, such as pads, tampons, menstrual cups and reusable options. The lack of free access to period items results in the perpetuation of poverty and deprives individuals of reasonable access to a basic health necessity.

This petition aims to ensure that these items are free to access in public schools and within Manitoba's health-care system, and that no individual who requests them can be denied on the basis of gender or sex identity. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Health and Seniors Care to implement free access to period necessities within public schools and Manitoba's health-care system. To urge the Minister of Health and Seniors Care to ack nowledge the prevalence of people within Manitoba who are unable to afford essential period items.

This petition has been signed by many Manitobans. Mr. Deputy Speaker: In accordance with rule 30–133(6), when petitions are read they have been deemed to be received by the House.

3510 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2021 Right to Repair Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background for this petition is as follows:

(1) Manitoba consumers believe products should last longer, be repaired when broken and that planned obsolescence has environmental consequences that threatens a sustainable future.

(2) In 2021, the European Union set minimum design requirements for many electronic devices with new right to repair legislation.

(3) The right to repair enables consumers access to the resources needed to fix and modify their products, appliances, including cellphones, washing machines and refrigerators.

(4) The right to repair also allows consumers and electronic repair businesses access to the most recent versions of repair manuals, replacement parts, software and other tools that the manufacturer uses for diagnosing, maintaining or repairing its branded electronic products.

(5) The right to repair further allows consumers to reset an electronic security function of its branded electronic products if the function is disabled during diagnosis, maintenance or repair.

(6) In addition, the right to repair ensures manufacturers replace electronic products at no cost or refund the amount paid by the consumer to purchase the electronic product when they refuse or they're unable to provide manuals or replacement parts. * (14:40) We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to adopt right- to-repair legislation requiring manufacturers of electronic devices and appliances, including washing machines and fridges, to make information, parts and tools necessary for repairs available to consumers and independent repair shops.

And this pet ition is signed by many, many Manitobans. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Does the honourable member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe) have a–no? So any other petitions? Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Mr. Deputy Speaker , c ould you please canvass the House for leave to alter the Estimates sequence permanently so that in the Chamber

section of the department –the Chamber section, the Department of Health and Seniors Care, will be moved down in the sequence, appearing after Advanced Education, Skills and Immigration? Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is there leave to alter the Estimates sequence permanently so that the Chamber

section of Department of Health and Seniors Care will be now moved down to the –in seq uence, appearing after the Advanced Education, Skills and Immigration? Is there leave? [Agreed] Leave has been granted. * * * Mr. Goertzen: Could you please resolve the House into Committee of Supply? Mr. Deputy Speaker: We'll now have the House resolve into the Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) ROOM 254 EXECUTIVE COUNCIL * (15:20) Mr. Chairperson (Dennis Smook): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. Before we begin, I have a leave request for this

section of the Committee of Supply. Our long- standing practice is for the opposition to sit at the committee table to the right hand of the Chairperson. Because the minister is participating virtually this afternoon, I am asking if there is leave of the committee to waive this practice. This would make it much easier for the members of the opposition to see the screens that are situated in the room. Is it the will of the the committee? [Agreed]

May 26, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3511 This

section of Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates of Executive Council. As previously announced, as there is only one resolution, the discussion will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Off icial Opposition): Thanks for bringing forward that leave request again. Thanks in advance to the Premier (Mr. Pallister) and to his staff for participating in the committee hearing today. I wanted to begin by asking about the Manitoban who passed away af ter an attempt was made to transport them out of province from an ICU here in Manitoba.

I would like to begin by asking, when did the Premier learn of this incident? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Just prior to leaving my office to go to question period, and I asked staff to make sure they talked to the Health Minister to get me any information that might verify whether this was fact or rumour. Mr. Kinew: And, you know, what can the Premier share with us that he's aware of regarding this incident? Mr. Pallister: Well, I think I learned more from the member's

preamble than I had to that point, but then again, I'm not entirely sure if that's–that

preamble was based on fact or it was based –I know, later on, the member asked some questions about a CBC story. I don't know at this point, so I don't want speak on the basis of speculation. I would rather get the facts. If a tragedy has happened here, I'm –I think we're all despondent about it. And I'd be very interested in getting the facts before I say too much more, and I hope the Opposition Leader would understand the logic of that. Mr. Kinew: Can the Premier undertake to provide us with an update when he has more information on that incident? Mr. Pallister: I'd be happy to do that.

I had a brief, brief exchange with the Health Minister, and he's assured me that his officials are looking into this. And so I'd be happy to undertake to get information to the Opposition Leader and to all members. This is–we're in the midst of dealing with human tragedy of an epic proportion here, and we want to make sure that we're communicating sensitively to the families involved and to all individuals involved at every opportunity. But I would share that information as soon as it's expeditious to get it and where it's appropriate, in conjunction, obviously, with the realities of the family being informed.

I'm not sure of the timing of this. I don't really know much other than–I've now skimmed the CBC story. I think there's a –Ian Froese, I think, was the journalist who posted it. But beyond that, I –before I comment further, I'd want to know the facts of the case and have them verified. * (15:30) Mr. Kinew: I just want to acknowledge the answer that the Premier provided there and certainly do look forward to being able to find out more information.

It is a very serious incident, we know that much, and so, certainly, additional information to help us understand what can be done to prevent a similar situation, I think, is very, very important. So this person was in the proc ess of potentially being transferred out of province before they were destabilized. So, to me, that brings to the forefront of my thinking the standard of care that is provided to these patients who are transported out of province. The last update I saw: 1 8 Manitobans.

That number may have changed, I acknowledge, because I didn't have a chance to see the public health update prior to question period. And so I just wanted to ask about the standard of care provided to those patients while they are in transport. Can the Premier tell us what that standard of care is? [interjection] Mr. Chairperson: The honourable First Minister, I had not recognized you yet and I wasn't sure –I didn't see if your hand had gone up. So you've been speaking for the –the honourable First Minister. Mr. Pallister: I would want to get the facts before I speak to anything here. I don't want to speculate.

This allegedly involves the passing of a Manitoba citizen. That would concern all of us. I want to get the facts. And so, as far as–I was just saying earlier, there– and I'm sorry I spoke out of order, there, Mr. Chair – but just to clarify for the member, the Health Minister, I believe, is in Estimates right now would be equipped, I think, to get his staff to assist in getting any infor mation on the transport question he just asked more readily than I can here. So just suggest,

3512 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2021 I'm sure the Health Minister would be able to assist on that one and get him that information. Mr. Kinew: Okay, so I'll take that answer for, I guess, what it is and we'll ask something similar in the Health Estimates when we have an opportunity to do so. What is the Premier going to do now to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again? Mr. Pallister: So, in respect of –I'm just waiting for the detailed information on some of the assets that Ottawa agreed to provide.

The focus, I think, of the ask from public health through me to the Prime Minister was that these additional resources would be key to assisting us in– and I won't say eliminating. I can't say that because I don't know. No one knows where the case numbers and hospitalization numbers and ICU numbers are going to go at this point. We all hope that it's to flatten down the curve. But there's a lag, as the member well knows, on ICU need that tracks out at–after on the graph beyond the hospitalization numbers. We're seeing more and more people contracting COVID at younger ages with these variants.

And so the ICU–and again, I don't pretend to be a medical expert. I count on our medical people to give advice to us and we act on it. But our medical guy – men and women are telling us that we can expect a more sustained need for ICUs. That's why we've gone to doubling the ICU capacity; added staff; added training programs; redeployed, of course, some other areas, which does have a consequence, as the member knows. It was alluded to yesterday by other physicians who have seen surgeries delayed, treatments delayed beyond the normal delay–if there is such a thing as a normal delay.

It seems our delays have become sort of acceptable in this country over the last 25 years. We've seen delays double, triple in many categories. We're all in –we're all experiencing this gradually so it's like we don't notice sometimes, I think. Delays in service accessibility in Can ada have grown significantly over the last number of years, in particular over the last five or six years, and now with the pandemic that continues. So on–back to the ask of Ottawa, which I'm awaiting the details but I will share with committee members in progress.

I committed, I think yesterday's meeting, to share with you, as those commitments by Ottawa are kept, to give you a progress report, and I look forward to doing that. But my understanding from health officials was that this would reduce the need for out -of-province transfers to occur because we'd be beefing up the resources we have within our province. We have, I'm told, adequate space, but it's the staffing-related issues.

We've got challenges throughout our HR category, if I can put it that way, not just in health but in other areas as well, with increased illness –not, I'm pleased to report, with increased absence. You know, people aren't taking more time off, certainly not in the health field. They're working. They're dedicated people. They deserve our respect and our admiration. But, most certainly, they would like some help. And so I commit to the member and share with him and our colleagues the additional information, much as somebody asked for the progress report, later on as soon as I have it here.

I hope that addresses the member was asking. Mr. Kinew: I acknowledge the answer that was provided there, and certainly look forward to additional information as it comes in. You know, I think there's a few dimensions here. The Premier ( Mr. Pallister) has talked about the staffing issues. Some of that is going to be coming from Ottawa and –well, via Ottawa, I guess, is more accurate to say–and that that will help to provide more spaces to treat Manitoba ICU patients.

We've already previo usly spoken to, in this committee today, to some of the standards of care around transportation, so we'll endeavour to get some answers, perhaps at the Health committee or in other venues about that, but I also wonder whether that triage protocol that has been spoken about isn't relevant in this situation. And so will the Premier be examining those standards to guide these decisions about who it is safe to transport and potentially who it's not safe to transport, as part of the follow-up on this incident? Mr. Pallister: Issues around transport is very important. This is a unique situation.

I'm not sure if it's totally unique. I don't have the historical knowledge going back decades in respect of –despite my age – going back decades in respect of transport iss ues around critically ill patients, but I'm sure that we are in a situation where this is a –at least –modern-day high. This is why we asked for resources from Ottawa,

May 26, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3513 a bolster, and I –again, I await the detailed numbers there. Staff's attempting to get those for me right now. But we acted well in advance of this with this. The member knows, we got a call to retired RNs, identifying nurses that have critical -care experience, redeploying–redeployed over 50 nurses from different service areas in our health -care system to ICUs, the critical-care nurse orientation program that we started last year.

We've had 130 nurses take that orientation program so that we were anticipating on moving nurses into those capabilities well in advance. * (15:40) That started –I emp hasize–that was over a year ago. That's not to be confused with the accelerated critical-care nurse orientation program. That's a different program, and there's 77 nurses on that one. So between those two, over 200 nurses that received additional training, additional skills to allow them to get into the service area that we're now seeing is, over the last several weeks, posing incredible demands on our ICUs and on the staff therein.

On the –and then the further program we intro - duced just two weeks ago is the ICU orientation program that we just reopened for –have 104 nurses that just have completed or are in that program as we speak. So, again, you know, when you add it up, you're talking about 300 nurses that will be equipped to handle ICU tasks, which either were rusty because they had retired or have moved into that area from other areas of service–of nursing service.

In terms of the skill mix and so on, I can't – if we had Lanette Siragusa here, she'd be able to give a more detailed, capable, professional answer to the member, but I understand they're using skill - mix teams to assist–and I'm probably using the wrong terminologies–but actually working in other professionals with pharmaceutical expertise, qualified pharmacists; in addition, physiotherapists into the mix to give counsel and to work with patients as part of a care–of a team of caregivers.

So, you know, we have added significant –as the member knows, we've added–I think I mentioned this briefly yesterday –added really significant space for ICUs. Of course, it's the staffing that's the key. Not much good, as Dr. Peachey said in his report, not really that good to have poorly equipped ERs with poorly equipped ICUs where people get moved out of them after they get checked into the hospital. That was what was happening previously –no fault of the Opposition Leader, but certainly of the previous NDP administration. After 16 years, that was a dramatic oversight on their part.

So that fact is we began that revamping and that cleanup immediately upon coming to government. The fact is that there were actually beds that weren't beds but–because they didn't have staff. So saying you have, as I noted –the member saying the beds were down. Not true, unless you count a bed without equipment and staff as a be d. ICU beds weren't available because they weren't fully staffed and equipped under the previous administration. So, baseline, we have more than doubled the number of ICU beds during this pandemic but we've also added beds prior to that time. It's impor - tant to note that.

Added staff, critical-care orientation training, nurse hires –as the member knows, significant to the casual pool–added 230 nurses as of May the 17th, so just a week ago. So, there's approximately, now, in the casual pool, over 750 nurse s, so bolstered that staff. It's good we did. Thank goodness this pandemic didn't hit in 2016, because these preparatory actions wouldn't have been taken and we would be in an extreme period of vulnerability. We are anyway, but it's not nearly as bad as it would have been. Mr.

Kinew: So the question was about the triage protocol and whether that will be–I don't want to say reviewed because, you know, we've never heard confirmation that triage protocol has been developed– but will the need for one be examine d in light of this incident? Triage protocol, I guess, would help guide decisions in terms of who could be transported, who shouldn't be, different levels of care provided to them and so on. Will the Premier (Mr. Pallister) re -examine that policy and the potential need for one in light of the current incident? Mr.

Pallister: Any aspects of doctors' decision - making processes can be directed to the Health Minister. I just wanted to give the member–is this the status right now? [interjection] A federal –I u ndertook to give the member an update –and members of committee–on the federal supports. Just receiving that. I'll just share with the member the ask, and then I'll go to where everything is at. So the first ask–and this was relayed, officials had been in discussion –the member had asked about timing and so on. The formal ask from me as Premier

3514 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2021 to the Prime Minister happened at –last Thursday in the afternoon after question period, I believe. But the officials had been in dialogue prior to that time for a few days, a week. And so this was the ask: human resources for critical care. We asked for 50 trained critical -care nurses, up to 20 respiratory therapists, and if they were not available, as a fallback, anesthesiologists and/or clinical assistants that cou ld work on the airways, breathing tasks in the ICUs.

So the first point being the HR ask, I would note for the members of this committee that for four years in Estimates, I asked questions, not necessarily like this, but a variety of questions and got no answers from the previous NDP administration. So I hope, for those who don't have the historical background to understand this, that they appreciate that the approach that I've taken with the Opposition Leader, throughout our time together, working together, is to never to–if I can't get the answer to him right away, I always endeavour to get the background for him and get back to him. I hope he agrees.

And I do make that point because that was not the collegial approach that was taken by the previous ND P administration–ever. In respect of equipment, we wanted to access from the Public Health Agency of Canada's stockpile– their strategic stockpile –equipment. And this gets into technical equipment; I can't tell the members much about it except to say that it involves some 'centromedic' and cardio health equipment and that you would like more ECMO. I don't know what the acronym stands for; again, ECMO: E -C-M-O. You can find out, I'll get back to the member on what the acronym means.

In terms of public hea lth supports, in addition, it would be helpful –I communicated to the Prime Minister it would be helpful to have one to two epis for a minimum of three months. Depending on how COVID case counts continue in a number of areas, local deployments and/or added central support would be of great assistance to balance downtime for our existing staff, so we don't–we're very concerned about the stress that's being put on our existing staff.

We also have to make this point –and have made this point repeatedly to the Prime Minister–in specific reference to health care, Canada Health Transfer, and in specific reference to the need for planning in respect of vaccine availability in Canada, that we need to think longer term as well. We're all caught up in the present right now for understandable reasons, but the reality is that COVID could be with us for a long time, and for example, right now, I and other premiers are very concerned that we don't seem to have a plan on vaccine procurement going forward beyond this current pandemic.

For example, we don't have a strategy for how we're going to get boosters. Provinces always looked after, you know, flu shots and so on, as the members all know; it was never the federal government. Now we've got the federal government not al lowing us to actually procure vaccines, so the provinces are–the federal government is in front of the provinces, the provinces aren't able to get orders from vaccine suppliers because the federal government has blocked our way. So how is that going to help us when it comes to booster shots going later in the year? We need to get clarification on that.

So the Prime Minister understands this to be an issue as well. This isn't a partisan shot. It's a reality that we have to address. We need to plan going forward for booster shots. We need to plan for additional domestic procurement to be enhanced. We're getting reports about vaccines not being available from Moderna in the coming weeks that were planned for; we're talking about –and we can't rely on offshore suppliers, we've seen that time and time again during this pandemic. So we need to move forward.

Got a couple other asks, but I see the Chairman is waving at me so I'll stop there, just –and I'll give the members an update on what's come so far in a second so they have that awareness– Mr. Chairperson: The honourable First Minister's time has expired. * (15:50) Mr. Kinew: So you know, I expect the Premier's (Mr. Pallister) probably going to continue on with some of those follow-up points that he was going on, but I would go ahead and pose my next question and I'll probably just pose it a few times if necessary.

So we know that prior to the publication of the incident today, that the government had been providing some updates on when people were moved out of province to–from an ICU here to an ICU in a different location. Again, we've heard about predominantly Ontario locations, first Thunder Bay and then additional ones –North Bay, Sudbury, Sault Ste. Marie, Ottawa, Windsor, et cetera, some talk

May 26, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3515 about potentially Saskatchewan being added to that list in the future. So today, unfortunately and very tragically, we're hearing about an attempt–not the actual transportation of somebody to an ICU but the attempt to transport somebody to an ICU out of province. So will the Premier commit that the government will update the public on other such attempts so that we can have a clear picture of what is going on with health care as we deal with this third wave? Mr.

Pallister: Yes, I'll just–I'll say to the member that I understand there are procedures and, you know, our standard procedures that are followed in the case of fatality of anyone involved in our health-care system. It involves certain procedures that must be followed, I think, out of respect, obviously, for the immediate family, the notification issues and so on and there's a protocol.

I don't have it here, but I believe it would be written down somewhere and I would undertake for the member–I'll see if I can track it down for him and he can review that, and then if he has any suggestions on how that can be improved or modified in some way, that'd be good. I want to say to him, though: pretty harsh in question period today. I'm trying to answer his questions as best I can as he phrases them and I think when he reviews Hansard, he might on reflection recognize that I answer them honestly.

And so the accusations that he launched into, I understand, come from being angry and frustrated, as we all are, but I don't think it's justified. The member raised an issue to day. I attempted to address him as best with the information I had about somebody dying, and that's a pretty important thing. So I just want the member to know that I –and I hope he would agree –I've been –I try to always be forthright in responding to him i n terms of facts and not evaded them, and I would never do that, and I hope the member would understand that.

So on the issue of the public health supports, I just say we did also –I think I mentioned this briefly yesterday but we did ask for additional he alth from StatsCan on the case and contact management issue– mentioned, specifically, 50 personnel if we could get them. That represents over and above what we have– I'm going to go approximately here –I think about 5 per cent addition to what we have invol ved now in Manitoba in contact tracing. So it's not big, but it's not small.

But it is important, because the case management–the contact tracing is a really important aspect of how we keep a handle on COVID, and the contact information is, as I had referenced yesterday, it's critical to get it. It is critical that people share it because if they're out there associating with others in violation to health orders they need to share the information so we can help those other people to get tested quickly, not delay that can lead to an escalation in number of cases. So the public health nurse support: we had asked for, potentially, alternate isolation accommodation personnel. This one's big.

We've got people, folks living in environments in Manitoba, as are people living all across the country in environments, where once they're told to isolate, they can't. It's very, very difficult for them because they're living in close quarters or they're living in a small accommodation with other people in the hallway and a re all around them. So we've established a program of alternate accommodations for helping people to isolate. To support that second site, we had hoped to get some additional personnel to assist us with that as well because we hoped we had –well, anyways.

We can get more detail on that one, too, if the member's interested. Just to give you the status on the–where we're at. It appears discussions are still in progress on the 12 ICU nurses. We think we'll have 12 ICU nurses mobilized over this week, the we ek we're in. So I'll give update as soon as I can confirm. In fact, I can do it in question period tomorrow. If I can get the data, I'll share it with all members because I think this critical.

None of us wants to see Manitobans have to be transported out, and these asks being identified–and I want to say a special thank you to the federal government for accommodating this. I want to say to our regional minister, Jim Carr, thank you very much for your support and efforts on this; these are much appreciated. Number of ICU nurses can increase–the ask could increase depending on how things look in other provinces. As the curve is bending down in other provinces, we may be able to also obtain the support of other qualified ICU nurses from our partners in the Confederation.

That's how families should work, and we'd be perfectly willing to help others if the shoe was on the other foot, so I don't feel bad asking for help

3516 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2021 from Saskatchewan or Ontario for any number of issues, and that's one of them. Advance-care paramedics, we don't know yet. On the StatsCan staff, we believe that has been confirmed but I am not sure when they will start doing contact tracing, so I'll attempt to get a detail on that. We got three ECMO machines –and, again, I apologize to members of the committee for not knowing what ECMO means– Mr. Chairperson: Honourable First Minister's time has expired. Mr. Kinew: You know, I do note what the Premier's (Mr.

Pallister) saying, and we'll look forward to the update in question period. I just wanted to pick up just a small detail in his answer there. He mentioned the 5 per cent increase in contact tracing, and, you know, I think I was –I just totally missed the exact number that was going on there. So could the Premier (Mr. Pallister) what –just walk me through what's the number of contact tracers that has been requested and then what is the total number here in Manitoba, if he could just provide that answer just because I caught the 5 per cent figure; I didn't catch the other figure in terms of t hat explanation.

So if the Premier could just walk the committee through those numbers in terms of the request –how many were requested additional, and then that goes on top of a number of how many contact tracers. Mr. Pallister: Yes, happy to provide that. And I was wrong. I said–I think I said 4 per cent. I think it's closer to 6. Eight hundred and forty -seven is the number of agents we have currently working on contact traces through StatsCan, Red Cross, 24- 7 Intouch and our provincial recruitment deployment team. So you got 847.

We asked for 50, so you can do the math; that would get us up to around 900, so 50 of 900, there you go, closer to 6 per cent–5.7, whatever. In addition, I have the answer to the question you've all been wanting to ask: w hat the heck does ECMO stand for? Extracorporeal membrane 'oxygeration.' This is, essentially –I guess I'll use a layman's term, and I hope I'm not misrepresenting this–but I think this is essentially what we think of, perhaps, as an iron lung, a device that breathes outside of your body into you when you can't.

So it's–this is an invasive technique that allows people to continue to live and maintain appropriate levels of oxygen and carbon dioxide when use of ventilators are not sufficient. So this is the backup device. So we asked for help with that. We asked for three. What does AIA stand for? [interjection] Pre- viously mentioned–sorry–I had previously mentioned the alternate isolation sites; we asked for some personnel there, and one or two epidemiologists, additional support for communities to lessen reliance on RHA public health nurses who we've been deploying to communities.

So backup staff, equipment of various kinds –I look forward to getting an update, and I can share that with members, I hope, tomorrow, depending on when the data is forthcoming. * (16:00) So, yes, I mean, I thank the federal government on this. I thank also our provincial partners who clearly have–you know, we were in a great position a month ago, we're in an awful position now, and we all hope that we're in a great position a month from now. I mean, that's the summation. Right now, we need the help of our partners in confederation.

And Manitoba's always been the first to offer help to others, and so now I guess we're necessarily cashing in a few chips here to get some help from others. Ottawa has been forthcoming, and I thank them for that. I thank the Prime Minister in advance for satisfying these asks. This is not a guarantee that we don't have to transport people, we can' t say that, but it's clearly an effort to make adjustments to our staffing levels and equipment levels so that that is a less likely possibility as we move forward. Mr. Kinew: I thank the Premier for that answer there.

The–on 847 agents currently here, you mentioned a few agencies: StatsCan, Red Cross. I'm guessing, like, 24- 7 Intouch is probably another one. I don't know if there's others in there. Can the Premier just break that figure down, like, is it, you know, by each agency? Is it 100 StatsCan, this many Red Cross, so on and so forth? Can the Premier break down that 847 agents currently working and which organization or company they work for? Mr. Pallister: I should be clearer in giving the member this information than I am. I do not have in

May 26, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3517 front of me right now the number of contact tracers working with each of the RHAs. That's in addition to this, right? So we can–I'll undertake to get that as well because that bolsters this number. It's higher than the 847: 24- 7 Intouch, 466; Canadian Red Cros s, 63; StatsCan, 175; our provincial recruitment redeploy - ment team, 143; grand total, 847. But I would emphasize some of those –these are the partner agencies. These agencies are working with the RHAs' internal personnel that are already working here.

So I 'll get the detailed number on the RHA contact tracing for the member so we'll have a grand total. And I would emphasize some of these may be just in the process of training up, so they're maybe at various levels because we've bolstered the numbers. So I don't want to create the impression every single one of these people right now is doing contract tracing because there may be some that were just hired two weeks ago and they're just in a training program. I hope that's helpful. Mr. Kinew: I do thank the Premier (Mr.

Pallister) for that breakdown there, and I take seriously that he mentioned that the RHAs do employ their own resources in the space. So can the Premier undertake just to provide that, once, you know, they can dig that up? Mr. Chairperson: The lead –sorry–the honourable First Minister. Mr. Pallister: Yes, I will undertake to do that, for sure. And I'll just share with the member, this has been–this was a real challenge early on. I think some of the members will remember early days of contract tracing. This was a new experience for a lot of people.

We had to bolster–there had never been a demand like this put on our internal staff, and so this is where the outsourcing to get additional help initially–I can't remember off the top of my head, but I know that the Red Cross pitched in fairly early in the second wave and added to our number. You guys might be able to get me the date on that, if you could, on when the Red Cross came in to assist on contract tracing. What was it? If I recall, I'm thinking it was early November they kicked in with a few people, but we'll get the detail on that for you.

But at that point in time, the issues around both testing and the contact tracing were under a really strong demand.

We developed a balanced scorecar d, which I can share with the members if I can get a copy of it, to illustrate how to monitor the situation internally more effectively on an ongoing basis to make sure that we were addressing problem areas before they became a problem as much as possible – basically, you know, kind of a red- green-yellow concept where if it's in the acceptable parameters, good, but if it's slipping into the yellow, then you look to bolster with changes in either additional personnel or technical approaches that may assist to move it back in green.

And then when it's red, you know, even more of a focus is required. But for the most part, that –once that scorecard system was set up, our vaccine –our health team has been able to monitor every aspect of the service provision that t hey've done and to maintain the amazing services. I'll ask my staff to pull up the number of tests, the number of contact -tracing interviews, and so on and so forth. If they could pull that up and share with you, then we'll–I think it'll impress members of the committee if we can get those numbers pulled together.

Sorry, Red Cross started right at the end of October, so I wasn't far off from the start of November. So if we could pull up those numbers for the committee members, they will find them interesting. On the matrix, then, just talking about that for a sec. On the contact tracing, virtual call centre staffing, just to share with you the targets. First of all, for COVID-19 contact tracing, are 80 per cent of cases reached in 24 hours, 80 per cent of contacts reached in 24 hours, and total active cases that last longer than four weeks to be zero; in other words, to clear that case off.

COVID-19 contact tracing seven -day average, just to share that against the metric from–and this ends as of Monday of this week –for the previous week was–the target was 80 per cent reached in 24 hours. And remember, these contact tracers are working their tail off, so when I say they shot for 80 per cent, they got 74 per cent reached in 24 hours. They're not failing. They're facing the biggest challenge on contact tracing we've ever faced as–ever in the history of the province, and these guys are working really, really hard across the board.

But we saw this slipping into the yellow, realized we needed more people, that–hence the ask to Ottawa

3518 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2021 for additional contact tracing support to get that up, because the faster we can get those contacts –that information and the faster we can notify people that they need to go and get tested, for example, the better. However, thei r matrix for cases–contact trace within 48 hours is 94 per cent–very good. So, again, they're working hard. On –that was on COVID -19 contact tracing. The seven-day averages are in green. We're okay.

I think we're starting to slide, and so hence the need for additional staff as we saw the contact tracing demand rise with the number of cases, clearly. I won't get as–probably too much detail here, and committee members might not be interested. It's here, though, if anybody is interested. We have that information available, if you'd like. Mr. Kinew: Yes, I would. If –whether it could be tabled or whether it can be just provided as an undertaking or something like that, definitely would. And if the Premier (Mr. Pallister) could just repeat, sorry, I just–the pen doesn't move as fast as it might.

Was that 94 per cent within 48 hours? If you could just run through that again, too, and then just either–if he can table that or share it as an undertaking. Mr. Pallister: We just got confirmation from Ottawa that we're getting 50 contact tracers. Yahoo. So if – committee members are right here on the cutting edge of information dissemination. So they're going– they're coming in for orientation apparently June 1st and they're–and that's for 50 additional contact tracers. And the–there's–the number of contact tracers in the RHAs is 70, just to clarify that one for the Opposition Leader.

So it's 847 with the partner agencies, plus 70 within the RHAs, to give you a grand total there of 917, plus an additional 50. We're getting up to 967 of just contact tracers. * (16:10) I just shared the–you know, I'll say to the member, I think we'd be–I think he'd be interested to know–and we get, these numbers are updated –[interjection]– these numbers are updated daily. The numbers I have right in front of me here were in anticipation of him asking about this yesterday, so they're old. So I'll get him the newest numbers and I'll hand them to him tomorrow before question period, how's that. Mr.

Kinew: My mic was off, so you probably didn't hear me laughing in surprise there, but in a good- natured way, Mr. Chair. So I do appreciate that additional late -breaking info, in terms of the 50 contact tracers just confirmed. That does sound like news you can use, to use a term from my previous line of work. I was just wondering, while we're on that subject, is there any additional update? Like, did that news come along with anything else? Was there any additional info on the respiratory therapists or the critical-care nurses or other elements of fed eral assistance coming to Manitoba?

I just wonder if the Premier has anything else he can share, along with the contact tracer number. Mr. Pallister: No, but as soon as I have anything, I'll be letting him know. Mr. Kinew: Okay, well, I certainly look f orward to some of these follow -up conversations on the health topic. It's top of mind for everyone in Manitoba these days, whether we need those health-care services right away or whether we're just, you know, waiting for that vaccine eligibility. But I d o, you know –recognizing, you know, the clock is ticking –I do want to spend a bit of time discussing Manitoba Hydro.

You know, just as a starting point, there was a big jump from year to year, in terms of, I guess, projected profit for next year relative to the profit that Hydro's on track to make this year. So on track for $111 million and forecasting 190 for '21-22. Oh, sorry. I guess I should just rephrase that all. It was $111 million for the past year and then on– forecasting on track for $190 million in the current fiscal year. So I'm just wondering, can the Premier explain where the increase from the originally anticipated amounts came from? Mr.

Pallister: Now, I'm not impugning motives, here, but I understand Crown corps is in Estimates right now, so probably the best bet is to ask the minister in charge of Hydro to get the detail on why the projections were–are looking rosier than they were a while ago, rather than asking me and catching me saying something that somehow is confusing to the member. I'd only say this: let's put this in perspective. Because of the massive overbuild at Hydro with

May 26, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3519 Keeyask and bipole, the debt of Hydro grew exponentially, is now in the area of $23 billion. And even with the discounted interest borrowing charges that Hydro gets by being able to piggyback on the provincial credit rating, which we've shored up through prudent fiscal management over the last half- decade, the debt service costs are in the area of $1 billion a year. That's the Hydro debt.

So I know the member was getting excited the other day there about a profit potential of $190 million, and it sounds great –or 111 or whatever –sounds really good except when you consider that even at 190 it's not even a fifth of the interest charges on Hydro's debt. So at this rate, Hydro's going to be in debt for a long time, to put it mildly. Mr. Kinew: So the Premier (Mr. Pallister) put forward the Wall report earlier this year. It was pretty significant that among the recommendations, which the Premier did commit to, was to sell off so -called non-core assets.

Just wondering if the Premier can clarify what the non-core assets are, and what does that term mean, non-core. Mr. Chairperson: The honourable First Minister. The honourable –or, the honourable First Minister, we could not hear you. I don't know if you were muted there, or. The honourable First Minister. Mr. Pallister: I'm on? Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, yes.

The Wall report points out some serious challenges that have occurred as a consequence of some of the processes around the construction of the Keeyask and bipole west line, such as the $1.2 billion that was spent by the previous administration to proceed with Keeyask prior to approvals by the PUB. And meant that that –of course, because you're spending $1.2 billion before it's been approved, that that's probably something that we should look at.

And that is something we're looking at with our legislative agenda–to strengthen the PUB –something which, I believe it would be fair to say, former premier Greg Selinger now understands is a great idea because he was there at the time when this was getting out of control. There are many people at Hydro that didn't view Keeyask as needed, not in the near term, in any case. Yet–and many who also viewed it as speculative and more of a roll-the-dice situation for Manitobans than it was core to the responsibilities that Manitoba Hydro traditionally has emphasized of providing lower cost power to Manitobans.

In other words, a bill for Americans to be paid for by Manitoba children is, essentially, I suppose, the challenge here. So it's –the preapproval of spending makes it – without any kind of objectively staged accountability– makes it very difficult to hold the current –the government of that day accountable for the decisions, and makes the decision to get into merchant dam construction by Manitoba Hydro officials of the day something that they were not held accountable to at the time.

So this is why proceeding with a strengthening of the Public Utilities Board so they get full data, full information, not partial or misleading information, is very important.

The –it appears that the Hydro officials were blinkered by a bias that the government had early days to get this built and get it done – confirmation bias, it can be calle d–that they should– they were essentially told, go ahead and build bipole on the west side regardless of facts to the contrary that Hydro officials tried to present to them, regardless of objections by their own board appointees on Hydro board, and that they proceeded with Keeyask without regard to the declining revenue potential generation abilities that it had vis -à-vis competition in the back and in various other markets to the south of us.

So in other words, no off-ramp was considered. * (16:20) This is the problem that we face now and future generations will face. We're going to be extremely power-heavy for the next number of years, if not decades, as a consequence to these investments. The implications are very real. The implications to Manitoba's finances were real when it was happening. We were getting warned by credit rating agencies. The previous administration was warned that structural deficits growing in size in good times wasn't a good thing. Yet they didn't seem to consider that at the Cabinet table.

According to the Wall report, there weren't discussions, according to his interviews with senior officials. There weren't discussions at Treasury Board or at the Cabinet table for a decade on this project, and that is hard to accept and hard to understand, given the risks that that would pose to the provincial finances more generally.

3520 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2021 If you're dealing with credit rating agencies who absolutely understand the risks associated with the debt at Manitoba Hydro and the context of the risks associated with the government of Manitoba, they're not two separate things; they don't treat them that way. And so, to not consider the ramifications of a Hydro debt that was escalating to double and almost triple its size just a few years earlier is really unbelievable. So the member asked about privatization.

I see my time's up, but I'll certainly go into that topic, if the member would like, subsequent to this response. Mr. Kinew: I just want to acknowledge the Premier saying that selling off non-core assets is privatization at the very, very end of this answer there. Can the Premier (Mr. Pallister) tell us when that, you know, the $5 billion in energy sales to Saskatchewan, when was that finalized? Mr. Pallister: Two things: (1) the member has the Crown corp. minister in Estimates as we speak, so if he wants any detail on timing on announcements, he can certainly get it there.

In respect of –I've already made it clear to him – that the debt of Manitoba Hydro is in excess of $23 billion, $1 billion of debt service costs, and if he wants to describe that as great news he can, but it's not good news for ratepayers of Manitoba Hydro for the next 30 or 40 years, for sure. As far as the –obviously, speaking facetiously in reference to the privatization, every time we sa y Hydro, the Pavlovian response from the Leader of the Opposition is to talk about privatization, so I thought I'd beat him to it.

The fact of the matter is that Manitoba Hydro has developed–their board of management is shaping a long-term strategy to get them back to the funda - mentals of looking after Manitobans first and not necessarily people in Wisconsin or Minnesota. And so their plan, as a management and as a board, is to move forward to co -ordinate their policies, their governance, their regulations , to mitigate risks and leverage opportunities. This is the opposite of what happened under the NDP, where they actually leveraged risks and mitigated opportunities.

In other words, they took Hydro down the interstate to the United States in a big orange bus and decided they wouldn't take an off - ramp even after all indications of the dangers of the trip were presented to them. They avoided confronting the reality in the situation by not discussing it at Cabinet or Treasury Board. They decided that they wouldn't present the full information to the Clean Environment Commission on bipole, and they excluded bipole from consideration of the needs -for-and-alternatives-to analysis of Public Utilities Board, so it couldn't even be looked at.

They ignored–and this is the previous administration; no member except perhaps with the exception of the member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway) needs to take this personally. But the fact of the matter is that the NDP caucus wasn't elected at this point in time. They need to understand they don't need to own these decisions, and choosing to do so, I think, is a mistake, but it's their call.

I can only tell them that ignoring the realities of situation at Treasury Board is unbelievable, and it is clear that that is what happened, th at ignoring these decisions at Cabinet and in Cabinet discussions is also extremely dangerous, and that is also what happened. And that them pushing through with over $1 billion of investment without getting approval from the Public Utilities Board is, frankly, disrespectful. But the position of the Hydro leadership at that time was apparently not listened to.

Many people in senior management, according to the Wall report, were questioning the value of the Keeyask investment The board themselves questioned why the hydro line, Bipole III line, would go on the west side, and there's never been a fulsome explanation by former political people–the government of that time –as to why those decisions were pushed forward over and above the recommendations of their o wn board and their own senior executives. So what you've got now is a thing called Strategy 2040, of which Hydro has developed. It is a 20-year outlook with a strategic direction focused on Manitobans.

I emphasize not Minnesotans, but Manitobans. There are five key components to this strategy that articulate Hydro's commitment to their customers: (1) to provide safe, reliable energy that meets the evolving energy needs of Manitobans; (2) to serve customers efficiently, responsibly and digitally; (3) to h elp all Manitobans efficiently navigate the evolving energy landscape; (4) to maximize the benefit of Manitoba's clean energy advantage; and (5) to keep costs as low as possible while making the investments necessary to serve Manitobans.

May 26, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3521 This implementation's under way. It includes realigning roles and responsibilities, but no change to overall staffing at Hydro. There's a quick Coles Notes for the member. I think I'm running out of time on this one. Mr. Kinew: Is there a new export contract with Xcel Energy over and above what's previously been made public? Mr. Pallister: A perfect question to ask the minister who's in Estimates as we speak. Mr. Ian Bushie (Keewatinook): Just a couple different consultation questions, I guess, I have first.

In re gards to the framework that was being developed for a First Nation consultation policy, I'm wondering if the First Minister can notify the com - mittee as to where that's at. Mr. Pallister: Sorry; I didn't quite get the question. If the member wouldn't mind repeating that, that would be helpful. Mr. Bushie: Just in regards to the First Nation con- sultation policy that was being developed for a couple of years now, and my understanding is that the frame- work was already imminent more than a year ago. And I 'm just wondering if the Premier (Mr.

Pallister) can update as to exactly where that consultation policy is at, and when will it be made public. Mr. Pallister: I just encourage the member to direct those questions right to the minister. I'm sure he'll be helpful in getting you an update that would be more fulsome than I can. I'll only reiterate to the member that I do take very seriously the responsibilities of the consultation with our –the Indigenous peoples of our province in respect of Hydro projects and other pro- jects as well. And the member earlier, I remember he asked about Hydro purchase agreements and so on.

I can only say that the announcements on these deals were made in consultation with the Hydro leadership and they were announced so the –I think the member had said–I think he was repeating a column in one of the daily papers that supplies him with much of his fodder for, I think, question period–about not revealing pub- licly the nature of the specifics of the deal –so there was somehow, and it was implied this was a cover-up on how great Hydro was doing. Actually, the announcements were made public. They were press released.

They were made in con - junction with the federal government, and I can only say they were done in conjunction with H ydro in a – to a standard that they recommended we follow while announcing Hydro deals.

So, January 16, Hydro and SaskPower signed a power purchase–can you get me a glass of water–20- to 40- hundred-milliwatt agreement requiring con - struction of a line to Saskatchewan. * (16:30) I wanted to be specific about that because we have an ICIP infrastructure–[interjection] It's Investing in Canada fund, but this –what's the acronym? [interjection] Well, that's fine, except what's the–Investing in Canada Infrast ructure Program. Okay, we're back now. So we got–our infrastructure asks are in. They've been in for months now. The ICIP program is a part - nership with the federal government.

We're excited about it. One of the projects that we want to see move ahead on is an east -west line called the Birtle trans - mission line. The member for Rupertsland might be familiar with this one, kind of an exciting project. But this project would then facilitate transfer of power converted here near Winnipeg and moving to– moving into Saskatchewan to get them off their other sources of power that we–we think ours are better than theirs. We think our football team is better than theirs. We think our power is better than theirs, too. Mr.

Bushie: Just for a point of clarity, I am the member for Keewatinook, not the member for Rupertsland, which was the old name of the riding way back when perhaps the Premier was –last travel- led up North. Mr. James Teitsma, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair But getting back to the initial question, it was about the consultation policy, and it has been quite some time. Of course, with the pandemic going on, there was no ability to have the Indigenous relations minister answer the questions in Estimates.

So I could still go back to the initial Estimates of two years ago now where she had spoken about devel- opment of the consultation policy with First Nation communities and the framework that was now be - coming imminent. And when she was questioned on exactly when that would be, she had mentioned that

3522 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 26, 2021 it would still have to be signed off and rubber stamped by the Premier. So again, I ask the Premier exactly where is that at within your department and within your office. As I mentioned, the minister had mentioned that that, in fact, has to be cleared and done through your office. So I'm just wondering where that's at. Mr. Pallister: I just want to assure the member that I've been to northern Manitoba many times, but not when the travel restrictions are in place or he'd have my hide. I'm sure he would. Probably do a press release or something.

Anyway, I'm told that the Indigenous affairs minister is working on the final draft of that protocol and he'll have more information available forthwith. Mr. Bushie: Just a little side note: we have met before on one of your travels up to our area. We met on the side of the road where there was a little bit of a sub - statio

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-3-69
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 3rd hansardpdf 69.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	c872f64d900888a1bc9210e266cd20b078fd2206

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