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October 11, 2000

37th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcript 2000-Oct-11 vol. A (PDF)

L087A - Wed 11 Oct 2000 / Mer 11 oct 2000

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

ONTARIO TRILLIUM FOUNDATION

AILSA CRAIG APPRECIATION BANQUET

SPORTS AND RECREATION FUNDING

BRAMPTON ECONOMY

AGRICULTURAL FUNDING

HOME CARE

FIRE PREVENTION WEEK

MPP BACK TO SCHOOL PROGRAM

BOWMANVILLE APPLEFEST

VISITORS

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON REGULATIONS AND PRIVATE BILLS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

HIGH-TECH CAPITAL OF ONTARIO ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 SUR LA CAPITALE ONTARIENNE DE LA HAUTE TECHNOLOGIE

RENT FREEZE ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 SUR LE GEL DES LOYERS

ORAL QUESTIONS

HEALTH CARE REFORM

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

WASTE MANAGEMENT

NUTRIENT MANAGEMENT

WASTE MANAGEMENT

LONG-TERM CARE

COMPENSATION FOR VICTIMS OF CRIME

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

HOME CARE

COMPENSATION FOR VICTIMS OF CRIME

WATER AND SEWER INFRASTRUCTURE

TRANSIT SERVICES

GOOD NEIGHBOURS PROGRAM

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

PETITIONS

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

INVESTIGATION INTO CHILD ABUSE

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

EDUCATION REFORM

KARLA HOMOLKA

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

ORDERS OF THE DAY

RED TAPE REDUCTION ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 VISANT À RÉDUIRE LES FORMALITÉS ADMINISTRATIVES

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

ONTARIO TRILLIUM FOUNDATION

Ms Caroline Di Cocco (Sarnia-Lambton): The Ontario Trillium Foundation is failing charitable organizations in Sarnia-Lambton. Revenue sources have been reduced by 45% with the introduction of slot machines and charity casinos, which have replaced revenue from volunteer-run bingos and Monte Carlos.

Minister Hodgson stated in 1998 that charities would receive 100% of the net revenue from table games at the charity casinos. It's ironic that the charity casinos are now detrimental to charitable organizations' ability to raise funds. The organizations in jeopardy are the Alzheimer Society, Big Brothers, Big Sisters, the Canadian Hearing Society, the Canadian Mental Health Association, the Canadian Red Cross, Family YMCA, Goodwill Industries, Huron House boys' home, the Multiple Sclerosis Society, the Sexual Assault Survivor Centre, the United Way, the VON, the Women's Interval House, Rebound and Senior VIP.

These organizations are in crisis because the Trillium Foundation's funding process is restrictive and has no provision for assistance to existing successful programs. These organizations are facing program reductions, program eliminations, cutbacks in staffing and inability to meet new community needs. In other words, the social support structure of Lambton county is in jeopardy.

The reality proves that Minister Hodgson was wrong when he stated that more dollars would go to charities. Where is all the gambling money going?

AILSA CRAIG APPRECIATION BANQUET

Mr Bert Johnson (Perth-Middlesex): Last Saturday, I had the privilege of attending an appreciation banquet for volunteers in my riding of Perth-Middlesex. The village of Ailsa Craig hosted this special evening to honour those who donate their time, talent and skills to serve their community.

Two of the individuals receiving recognition were the late Tye Barnes and Bob Hooper. Tye and Bob were great friends and were dedicated to Ailsa Craig. They worked together on many projects, including looking after the local recreation centre, and they have a Canadian 46-cent stamp in their honour.

Another important individual to the community was Bryn Gilles. After a battle with cancer, memorial donations were made in Bryn's name and the recreation centre used the proceeds to purchase a large-screen movie projector. Now local children have the chance to watch movies and share fun in their own community.

Although I did not have the opportunity to meet these great men, I know from the kind remarks that were made in their honour that they were truly heroes.

The village of Ailsa Craig is a vibrant community located northwest of London on Highway 7 in the county of Middlesex. Ailsa Craig is famous worldwide for its annual turtle races, held every July.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the council of the village of Ailsa Craig for inviting me to attend their appreciation banquet. My thanks go to Reeve Don Shipway, councillors Lynne Burns, Ken Johnston, Gary Keays and Bob Thomson for organizing this event.

Ailsa Craig is an example of what makes our province strong and vibrant.

SPORTS AND RECREATION FUNDING

Mr Mario Sergio (York West): Non-profit community organization volunteer groups and local neighbourhood sporting clubs no longer can provide services or operate programs due to extreme and prohibitive increases in leasing community space.

Three hundred per cent increases over last year's rate are quite common in many communities, and this spells the end of many recreational programs for after-school groups.

This can only give way to more and, in many cases, higher user fees. This is unfair to the thousands of needy and poor kids who will be affected. For the many hard-working families in my riding of York West and also throughout Ontario, it will be unbearable to come up with more money for after-school programs.

Cuts in provincial funding that affect school boards are, in effect, penalizing our children. The Mike Harris government's new funding formula is responsible for the cuts and the empty community spaces. Many volunteers and volunteer organizations are ready and willing to face the challenge, but only if affordable community space is available.

I call on you, Premier, to get involved and make a commitment to provide the necessary funding. Premier, please support our community groups, our volunteer organizations and, above all, our kids.

BRAMPTON ECONOMY

Mr Joseph Spina (Brampton Centre): I'm pleased today to bring more great news from Brampton. Recently the Brampton Economic Development Office was presented with both a gold and platinum award at the 32nd annual Economic Developers Association of Canada congress. The gold award was for the best among those communities with a population of 150,000 or more, and the platinum for the best community economic development program in Canada.

Brampton's submission detailed the progress the city and its many partners have made since launching the successful Small Business Enterprise Centre in 1998. At that time the economic development office moved from a location somewhere on the fifth floor of city hall to a street front.

Since then, the number of new businesses in Brampton has grown at a significant rate. Before this move the small business self-help office served about 4,500 clients and registered maybe 1,000 or so businesses per year. The new Small Business Enterprise Centre has assisted 18,000 clients and registers 4,500 new businesses per year since February of 1998.

The Small Business Enterprise Centre is dedicated to supporting small business growth by providing free business consulting, access to information, computer Internet access, accountant and lawyer referral program, site selection and many other services.

I'd like all members of the House to join me in congratulating our Brampton Economic Development Office in this tremendous achievement, an idea that I was very pleased to spawn when I was parliamentary assistant to the minister.

AGRICULTURAL FUNDING

Mr Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): My statement today is to the Premier. As everyone in this House knows, the second-largest industry in our province and in fact in Canada is agri-food. Traditionally, the only fear farmers had was bad weather. That has changed dramatically this year. This year, they've had a two-punch hit on them.

First of all, the weather was incredibly wet, causing significant numbers of farmers to not be able to get on the land to plant. When that has happened in most years, and in all previous years, although the quantity would be down, the price would be up significantly for their product. This year, for the first time, they're down 25% to 40% in the quantity of the crop and the prices are extremely low.

The answer for this low price is also very obvious to the Premier. That is that the Americans and the European countries subsidize their farmers at a far higher rate than we do. It has placed our farmers at a severe disadvantage.

Many times, Premier, you pointed your finger at the federal government and said they're the cause of the problem. You have not once, at a first ministers' conference, raised the issue of farm subsidies. Not once did it have any significance to you.

Our farmers look with envy at the support provided the agricultural community in Quebec and Alberta. Deliver on your promise of last year and five years ago to work for the farmers. Agriculture in this province is under attack. Action is needed now.

HOME CARE

Ms Frances Lankin (Beaches-East York): At lunchtime today I attended a demonstration of home care workers outside of the Minister of Health's office. In case she wasn't listening out the window, I want to repeat the message. Toronto's SPRINT home care workers, personal support workers, have been on strike now for five weeks. Monday night, 200 CCAC workers in Hamilton went on strike. These workers are out on the frontline delivering home care services and they know how your competitive bidding model has failed the clients they serve on an everyday basis.

The Ontario Home Support Association and Ontario Community Care Association have issued a report calling the state of human resources in the community care sector "a looming crisis." There are long waiting lists for services. We see the disparity in wages between the community sector and the hospital sector, leading to a flood of qualified workers leaving the community and going to the hospital. That means there aren't the supports there. That means the money that the minister announced this morning will not end the emergency room crisis. There's nowhere for these people to go.

The money that she's announced for the community care access centres doesn't even come close to meeting their deficits, let alone funding the pay equity requirements, let alone addressing the issue of disparity.

The review of competitive bidding that the minister has announced is a backroom sham. We want you to open it up. Invite the workers to the table, invite the clients to the table, and you'll hear how your competitive bidding experiment is failing the people of Ontario.

FIRE PREVENTION WEEK

Mr Joseph N. Tascona (Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford): I would like to take this opportunity to help launch Fire Prevention Week in Ontario, when fire departments throughout the province encourage Ontario families to develop and practise good fire safety strategies.

October 8 to 14 is Fire Prevention Week, and it's now well underway in Ontario. This week of special fire safety promotions and events involves the support and participation of fire services throughout the province, the fire marshal's public safety council and our private sector partners.

In 1999, Ontario recorded its lowest fire death rate ever. This year we're on target to reduce the number even further. That means our message is working. Ontarians are taking fire safety seriously; however, one fire death is still one too many.

This year's theme for Fire Prevention Week is Fire Drills: The Great Escape. Having a home escape plan is perhaps the single most important factor in surviving a home fire. I want to encourage everyone to develop and practise a home escape plan, because planning and common sense go hand in hand in avoiding and surviving home fires.

Next month will see the fire marshal's public safety council's annual fire safety awards, where we will honour the contributions of young people who took decisive action to prevent or minimize potentially dangerous fire situations.

We encourage everyone here in the House and throughout the province to join families across North America and take

part in the great escape drill tomorrow night at 7 pm. I want everyone to practise their emergency escape and gain peace of mind, knowing that having a home escape plan will help you and your family better survive a home fire.

MPP BACK TO SCHOOL PROGRAM

Mr Gerard Kennedy (Parkdale-High Park): It gives me great pleasure to rise today and speak to the people of Ontario about the MPP back to school program initiated by our leader, Dalton McGuinty, and myself, and which I'm proud to report to this chamber that a majority of members of this House have agreed to take

part in. They have agreed, with their average of 30 years out of school, to go back to school.

I think it's an important message to be sending at this time to the people of this province, to the parents of this province and to the students of this province, that there is an ability, a willingness on the part of at least some of the members of this House-what we hope will eventually extend to all of the members of this House-to accept the need to be more informed, to be able to accept the responsibility.

I want to draw in contrast, however, to some of the answers the Minister of Education gave in estimates yesterday. When I asked the Minister of Education, she said that she didn't feel she had any responsibility for the teacher morale problem in this province. We heard from the minister saying that she didn't feel she had any responsibility to do anything about the chaos that's afflicted so many of the schools across the province.

For example, we had in the room at estimates students from Rockland school who had come here to talk to the minister, to get some answers about how they can have what they had last year before Bill 74, supported by the members opposite-hopefully, they may change their minds once they go back to school-brought chaos into those schools.

I want to recommend that each person who goes back to school answers this simple question-as I know one of the interns at my office, Miguel, is here-are we better off for five years of changes in education? I think the answer will be very, very clear.

BOWMANVILLE APPLEFEST

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): The time has finally arrived for something that everyone's been waiting for. I want to invite my colleagues not to participate in a classroom exercise so much as to come to my riding of Durham this Saturday, October 14, for Bowmanville's annual apple festival. This popular daylong event is free, which will attract some members, and is located just 45 minutes east of Toronto in the municipality of Clarington. Applefest has grown over the past decade into a favourite, must-see event for many Ontarians, last year attracting over 30,000 people.

I want to thank Bowmanville Business Centre organizers Garth Gilpin, Ron Hooper and probably George Webster, along with the many volunteers who have worked tirelessly over the years to make Applefest a success for the entire family to enjoy.

As I have mentioned before in the House, agriculture is the second-largest industry in Durham. I'd like to take a moment to mention some of the apple growers in my riding of Durham: Charles Stevens, Kirk Kemp, Fred and Sandy Archibald, Ted Watson, Bob and Gail Simpson and Rob Shafer from the famous Tyrone Mill.

Everything from apple cider to the ever-popular hot apple fritters will be on sale, in addition to other treats and entertainment, including professional lumberjack competitions, woodcarving, a chainsaw competition and live entertainment.

The apple festival is one of the many events scheduled in my riding of Durham this fall. I encourage and invite all members to participate. You're welcome in Durham.

VISITORS

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): We have in the Speaker's gallery a delegation from Pachino in Sicily. Joining us today are some members. Dottore Reale, Marica Cirone, Professor Ignaccolo and Dottore Cimino are here with us today. If all members could join in and welcome our guests here today.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON REGULATIONS AND PRIVATE BILLS

Ms Frances Lankin (Beaches-East York): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on regulations and private bills and move its adoption.

Clerk at the Table (Mr Todd Decker): Your committee begs to report the following bill without amendment:

Bill Pr25,

An Act to revive 1274187 Ontario Limited.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Shall the report be received and adopted? Agreed.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

HIGH-TECH CAPITAL OF ONTARIO ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 SUR LA CAPITALE ONTARIENNE DE LA HAUTE TECHNOLOGIE

Mr Coburn moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 126,

An Act to proclaim the City of Ottawa as the high-tech capital of Ontario / Projet de loi 126, Loi proclamant la ville d'Ottawa capitale ontarienne de la haute technologie

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye."

All those opposed will please say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it. Carried.

The member for a short statement?

Mr Brian Coburn (Ottawa-Orléans): I would like to give a brief background of my bill, and I look forward to a positive debate later this month.

The Ottawa-Carleton region, soon to become the new city of Ottawa on January 1, is widely recognized, indeed virtually universally recognized, as Canada's high-tech capital.

For the first time ever, employment in the technology sector in Ottawa exceeds all other categories, including government. Based on the latest data from the Ottawa Economic Development Corp, the high-tech sector employs over 70,000 people, an increase of an incredible 754% since 1976. Indeed, high-tech companies are experiencing great difficulty in filling roles within their organizations due to the breakneck level of growth.

International powerhouses such as JDS Uniphase, Nortel Networks and Newbridge Networks, along with over 1,000 other companies in this sector-incidentally, the largest such concentration anywhere in Canada-have contributed to Ottawa's rise to the top of the global high-technology centres and earned it the popular nickname, Silicon Valley North.

This bill would recognize these facts in law and would formalize Ottawa's reputation as Ontario's high-tech capital.

I would ask that all members consider this bill, along with the facts, and I look forward to a debate in two weeks' time.

RENT FREEZE ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 SUR LE GEL DES LOYERS

Mr Marchese moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 127,

An Act to amend the Tenant Protection Act, 1997 / Projet de loi 127, Loi modifiant la Loi de 1997 sur la protection des locataires.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The member for a short statement?

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): The bill freezes the amount of residential rents for a period of two years. Notices and applications for rent increases to take effect after the bill passes will have no effect. No rent increase will be permitted on renting to a new tenant. Landlords will be required to give new tenants a statement certifying the amount of rent last charged for the unit. Landlords who give false statements or fail to give the statements will be subject to prosecution. Landlords will no longer be permitted to increase the rent charged to the maximum rent allowed when

part VI of the Tenant Protection Act, 1997, came into force.

Not just me, but 3.3 million tenants are expecting a fair response from Mr Harris and the other members.

ORAL QUESTIONS

HEALTH CARE REFORM

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Motions? Statements by ministries? That brings us down to oral questions and the leader of the official opposition.

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): Speaker, I prefer to think of it as bringing us up to oral questions, rather than down to oral questions.

I want to begin with the Minister of Health today. You may not recognize it as such, but we have a full-blown crisis in our emergency rooms, especially here in the Toronto area. Our ER backlogs have risen steadily every year since 1996. The number of hours that Toronto area hospitals are locking their doors to ambulances has risen 650% in the last five years.

The reason you insist on coming up with your announcements of the month, the reason you continue to tinker around the edges is because you are refusing to admit that you are the cause of the problem. You cut 5,700 beds out of our hospitals, and the fact is quite simply that ambulances have no place to bring their patients to. There is no room inside our hospitals for our ambulance patients.

Madam Minister, when are you going to finally admit that you're the cause of this problem and that you've got to start reopening hospital beds?

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): If the Leader of the Opposition would think back some period of time, he will remember that the whole issue of emergency room pressures is a long-standing problem, not only in this province, but it was also identified last week by all the provincial and territorial health ministers as an issue they wish to address.

In 1998 we decided, for the very first time, to look for solutions to the emergency room pressures, despite the fact that the two previous governments had dealt with the problems but not looked for solutions. I'm very pleased to say that since 1998, in response to the recommendations that have come forward from the hospitals, the doctors, the nurses and the ambulance sector, we have made good progress in addressing emergency issues.

Mr McGuinty: I'm going to ask on behalf of the people of this province, but especially our patients and their families, that you once and for all come clean on this issue. I have here a chart that was presented in evidence at the Joshua Fleuelling inquest. Dr Scholl, a non-partisan, arm's-length expert in these matters, presented this evidence, and it shows quite clearly, if you take a look at this chart, what happened to our emergency department overcrowding. It says that post-restructuring-this is what happened to emergency department overcrowding post-restructuring-it has skyrocketed.

Madam Minister, when are you finally going to take some responsibility for creating the mess that is putting Ontarians at risk? There is no room-I repeat, there is no room-inside our hospitals to admit our ambulance patients because you have shut down hospital beds. What I'm asking you to do is take responsibility, put aside your pride for the moment and start to reopen hospital beds. Why don't you do that?

Hon Mrs Witmer: As I said in my first comment, we have been moving forward with a very comprehensive emergency room plan since 1998, when we called the health stakeholders together. At that time, the health stakeholders indicated there was no single problem that could be identified. There were many reasons for the pressures.

But I'm very pleased to say our government has been moving forward. We have opened additional interim long-term-care beds, we have expanded community services, we have added nurses and more physicians to the system, we have increased coordination among the sector and I'm very pleased to say that this year we have added 1,200 beds to the system.

Mr McGuinty: You're not moving forward. You continue to tinker around the edges. The problem here is as clear and as plain as the solution. You cut 5,700 beds out of Ontario hospitals. The result is that when an ambulance brings a patient to the emergency ward, there is no room inside the emergency ward because there is no room upstairs in the hospital. The result is that they are sending them away. We've got ambulance patients on this endless merry-go-round, going from hospital to hospital trying to find room.

Here's another piece of very frightening information. We've now learned that in Toronto it takes an ambulance 54% longer to transport a patient with chest pains to a hospital than it did before this minister started restructuring. That means it's taking seven more minutes from the time they pick up a patient with chest pains to get them to the hospital, at a time when you will well recognize that time is of the essence; it is critical. Will you set aside your false pride and do the right thing and start to reopen hospital beds?

Hon Mrs Witmer: If the solution were so simple, obviously the Liberals would have looked at that solution when they had the pressures in the late 1980s. But let me indicate that since 1998 our government has moved forward with more than $620 million in initiatives to improve access to hospital emergency departments. We have added $100 million as part of the strategy to ease pressure on emergency rooms across the province.

We have added $23 million to implement the 10-point action plan, $93 million in alternative funding arrangements, $97 million to fast-track the expansion of emergency rooms in 56 hospitals and $90 million over four years for transitional relief. I am very pleased to say we are making progress. We are the first government in three-

The Speaker: The minister's time is up.

MUNICIPAL RESTRUCTURING

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the Minister of Municipal Affairs. We believe that safe drinking water is the birthright of every Ontarian. This morning we discovered that this government is drafting secret plans that include the active consideration of selling our waterworks to the private sector. Your government is actively considering selling off to the private sector the plants that make our water safe for us to drink and the pipes that distribute that very same water to our homes.

Minister, I want to give you the opportunity, here and now, to disabuse us of this notion. Tell us it isn't so, that this is not true, that you are not in any way considering turning over the infrastructure that delivers safe and clean drinking water to our homes to the private sector at any time.

Hon Tony Clement (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): I don't know what the honourable member is talking about. Sometimes Liberal research does steer him in the wrong direction. I can assure this House that this government is not forcing municipalities to do anything. These are their assets. They have the responsibility locally to deliver the best, the safest and the most efficient services available, and that includes water.

Mr McGuinty: It's obvious from the minister's non-answer that he's not prepared to rule out-you'll have another opportunity shortly, Minister, but right now that answer tells me you are not prepared to rule out selling off waterworks to the private sector.

I understand that you had advisers in from Margaret Thatcher's regime, from England. Those are the people you should not be talking to when it comes to privatization of our water. Look at what happened there: huge increases in water bills, threats to cut off water to entire towns, water to low-income families rationed and, so far, 250 successful prosecutions of water companies since their privatizing experience began.

I'm going to give you another opportunity, Minister. Tell us your government is not now and will at no time during its mandate consider privatizing waterworks.

Hon Mr Clement: The honourable member is having difficulty taking no for an answer. I said no. We don't have those plans. It is not our responsibility; it is the ownership and responsibility of municipal governments. We will certainly encourage, as we have always encouraged and as we encouraged last week, the best, the safest, the most efficient and the most accountable service delivery to the taxpayer by the municipalities, but we are not in the business of forcing those municipalities to sell their assets. That's not our responsibility; that's not our role in government. If the honourable member wants us to take

part in that responsibility and somehow interfere with municipal responsibility, I would say to this House that he's flip-flopping once again.

Mr McGuinty: Minister, let's cut to the chase. You put our municipalities in a bind. Your government downloaded waterworks on to municipalities, many of which did not have the resources or expertise to deal with it. Now you've decided, "Well, since that system isn't working, we've got to find something else," and instead of taking greater responsibility for delivering safe and clean drinking water to Ontarians, you're about to wash your hands of all responsibility.

Instead of being cute with the answer, will you tell us you are not going to not permit municipalities which find themselves in a terrible bind now, in a terrible predicament into which you have put them, to privatize their water infrastructure in a desperate move?

Hon Mr Clement: The honourable member is grasping a bit here. In the first part of the question he said we're forcing the municipalities to do one or another thing. In the last part of his question he demands that we interfere with the municipalities' right to look after their own interests on behalf of their own taxpayers, in a way that is accountable to the taxpayers.

We are here setting rules. We have the toughest rules when it comes to water delivery, and the cleanest, safest water supply as a result of Minister Newman's announcements earlier last month. We have those rules; we have the regulatory framework here in Ontario. But it's not our role to say, "Deal with this asset one way or deal with this asset another way." That's up to the municipalities. If municipalities cannot do that on behalf of their own citizens, then why have municipalities in the first place? The honourable member should stay in his own backyard rather than trying to interfere with the municipalities' own responsibilities.

WASTE MANAGEMENT

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): My question is to the acting Deputy Premier. I've just returned from a shameful scene at city hall. The risky Adams mine dump project is being pushed through. Peaceful protestors, including my leader, Howard Hampton, have been forcefully removed by police, who are taking their names and addresses.

In a shocking betrayal, Mayor Lastman is now opening the door to building a giant incinerator and-get this-dumping the toxic ash in the Adams mine lake. And guess who's been given the rights to own that incinerator and the rights to that ash to dump up north. Why, it's Rail Cycle North, which is about to be bought out by WMI, one of the worst polluters in the USA. Rail Cycle North owns Toronto city council, Rail Cycle North owns Mayor Lastman, and it's pretty obvious that Rail Cycle North owns Premier Mike Harris and your government.

I ask you today, what are you going to do to stop this sellout and to stop this madness?

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): I'm not aware of any group owning Mayor Lastman or anybody else, and as a result we won't be acting upon investigation on that.

Ms Churley: I would suggest to the Deputy Premier that he take this a little bit more seriously. What went down at city council today is absolutely out of the question and shameful. A motion was passed that Rail Cycle North would be allowed to build an incinerator and then dump the toxic ash into the Adams lake. This deal stinks, and you should get it by now. Nothing proves it better than this last-minute creation of a new option for a giant incinerator.

Let me tell you, the people of Toronto don't want a giant incinerator and the people up north do not want toxic ash dumped in a lake, and your so-called environmental assessment did not look at the dumping of toxic, extremely hazardous waste into the lake up there. I would say today that our only hope is that the federal Liberals will call an environment assessment. I have dim hopes for that, but that seems to be our only hope.

You can show leadership today. You can get us out of this mess. Will you say no to incineration and will you say no to dumping toxic waste into a lake in northern Ontario?

Hon Mr Hodgson: I can tell you that the Minister of the Environment has answered this question in various forms for the last couple of weeks, and I think he has conveyed to the member opposite that the Ministry of the Environment, on its part, has ensured that a full environmental assessment was completed in accordance with the Environmental Assessment Act. The Minister of the Environment requested that the Environmental Assessment Board review the hydraulic leachate collection and the contaminant system to ensure groundwater contamination would be prevented.

Hearings lasted six months and the board attached 26 conditions to the plan. A certificate of approval was issued. After further technical analysis of the project, the certificate carried 66 conditions. Eight independent peer reviews carefully analyzed the details of the plan and submitted their reviews, and the EA approved a judicial review; it went through that stage as well. It's now up to Toronto city council, as the member opposite is fully aware.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Final supplementary.

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): Sir, that is not acceptable. You know and I know and northerners know there has never been, at any time, an attempt by the environmental assessment people to take a look at the issue of toxic waste when it comes to what incineration is going to cause. You know it and we know it. I want to know as a northerner, along with the rest of us, what you're going to do as a government to protect the northern environment and ensure there is no toxic waste or any dumping allowed in that Adams mine.

Hon Mr Hodgson: The member opposite wants to raise his voice and yell loudly about this. They know that this is a difficult issue. Their government dealt with garbage for five years and created a tremendous mess right across the province. This project has gone through a number of approval stages in accordance with the Environmental Assessment Act. Experts have looked at this, people who have looked at the facts, and the city of Toronto, as you know, is considering this matter as we speak.

NUTRIENT MANAGEMENT

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I have a question for the Minister of Agriculture. Now that it's official-farm manure runoff tainted Walkerton's water; we know that now-the ball is in your court to table farm legislation immediately, just like you promised. You promised to bring in legislation last spring, and we have discovered in fact that you've been true to your word. You had legislation ready to roll as early as last June, but you never tabled it. That legislation was rejected by your cabinet colleagues. They killed the bill, and then your government stalled and stammered through a summer of inaction.

Enough stalling, Minister. Will you table that legislation, which we know exists, today?

Hon Ernie Hardeman (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs): I want to thank the member for the question and I want to assure the member opposite that the quality of the water and public health is of utmost importance not only to this government but to the Ministry of Agriculture and to the farmers of this province.

As I mentioned before, we started a consultation process as early as last January on how to deal with manure management in the province coming from our farms. We did a complete process in travelling the province. My parliamentary assistant, Dr Galt, and the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of the Environment consulted far and wide in the province. They had many presentations on what we should be doing. They prepared a report, which I received.

With that review and report, we put forward a proposal to the stakeholders in the province as to how we should deal not only with the report but with the handling of nutrient management in the province. We are preparing that legislation and we will be bringing it forward in the very near future for discussion in this chamber.

Ms Churley: Minister, I ask you, where is the bill? Your draft legislation made it around farming circles. We know that. People read it. They saw that you had legislation ready to go in June, but you didn't act on it. Instead, you allowed a summer of finger-pointing in a ruthless attempt to duck the blame for your government's inaction around water safety.

All people are asking you, and farmers are asking the same thing, is for simple legislation to ensure proper nutrient management practices on our farms. After yesterday's statements about the cause of what happened in Walkerton, I cannot believe your answer today. Minister, I'm baffled. Why on earth didn't you, and why won't you, stand up to your Premier and to the rest of your cabinet and push forward that legislation that could save lives? Will you tell us today that you will do that immediately?

Hon Mr Hardeman: I want to point out that this is not an issue of who stands up to whom. This is an issue of trying to get the information and to design the best possible way of handling the nutrients in our farm community.

I would like to point out for all in the chamber and for the farmers and the people of Ontario that in fact the doctor yesterday did not say that this was the fault of improper management of nutrients on the farm. What was said is that there is a problem with the security of the groundwater wells that were there.

I can assure the member opposite that we will be working with the farm community, as we have been. As recently as September 23, the Minister of the Environment, the Minister of Municipal Affairs and I met with all the stakeholders, including the environmental groups, to have further discussions on what was required in order to have proper nutrient management in the province. I can assure the member opposite that as quickly as we can prepare that legislation, we will be bringing it forward for discussion in this chamber.

WASTE MANAGEMENT

Mr David Ramsay (Timiskaming-Cochrane): Mr Speaker, we were told the Minister of the Environment would be here by 2:15. I was just wondering if he has arrived yet.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Stop the clock for a quick moment. Chief government whip?

Hon Frank Klees (Minister without Portfolio): He won't be here, Speaker.

The Speaker: You can go to the acting Deputy Premier.

Mr Ramsay: Deputy Premier, as you know, yesterday Dr Murray McQuigge, the medical officer of health of Walkerton, basically said that Walkerton was a wake-up call with respect to the water that comes from the deep-drilled wells throughout Ontario, which supply the drinking water for many Ontarians.

As you probably know, in areas such as yours, and in mine in Timiskaming district, many of the towns and rural farms derive their water from deep-water wells-thousands of people in the Timiskaming district. But you're willing and allowing Toronto to dump 20 million tonnes of their garbage over the next 20 years in our biggest and deepest well, the Adams mine. This well sits upstream of all those deep-water wells feeding those towns and individuals on those farms.

Why, after this wake-up call and this warning and the tragedy of Walkerton, are you still allowing this to happen?

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): I think the member opposite knows that everyone in this House and all the people of Ontario share the concern to make sure our water is absolutely safe. As a result, when any proposal comes forward, especially one of this magnitude-as you've heard from the Minister of the Environment for the last couple of weeks when you've asked these questions, this process went through an environmental assessment in accordance with the Environmental Assessment Act.

The Minister of the Environment requested that the Environmental Assessment Board review the hydraulic leachate collection and containment system to ensure that groundwater contamination would be prevented. The hearings lasted six months and the board attached 26 conditions to the plan. A certificate of approval was issued after further technical analysis of the project, and the certificate carried 66 conditions. Also, eight independent peer reviews carefully analyzed the details of the plan and submitted their reviews. This also went through a judicial review, and as you know, it's before the city of Toronto as we speak.

Mr Ramsay: Minister, the actions of this government don't match your words. We're still being very cavalier with our water supply in this province. As you now have found out, Toronto city council voted this morning to send toxic ash from any future incinerator and put it in the Adams mine lake. Incineration, as you know, concentrates all the heavy metals and other toxins from household waste, thereby allowing a much greater quantity of poison to be mixed with our groundwater.

Minister, why is Toronto so confidently contracting to put toxic waste in the Adams mine when I believe the certificate of approval only allows for household waste to be put there? Or have you made some sort of side deal with Notre Development?

Hon Mr Hodgson: I'll bring that up with the Minister of the Environment, but I can assure you that the this government will make sure that the certificate of approval and the Environmental Assessment Act are complied with and fulfilled.

LONG-TERM CARE

Mr John Hastings (Etobicoke North): I have a question for the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. In this century, Minister, we have the challenge of making sure we have the best accommodation and service for long-term care for our seniors and for our most vulnerable, the disabled. I noted recently that the Ministry of Health and you announced a new initiative to fast-track and facilitate the requirements for long-term-care facilities across Ontario. I would like to know how this initiative is going to improve the state-of-the-art facilities of long-term care and how this initiative will ensure really effective quality of long-term care in Ontario.

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): As the member probably knows, in 1998 our government announced 20,000 new long-term-care beds to be constructed over the next six years. Those were the first long-term-care beds to be awarded in over 10 years. I'm very pleased to say that 14,500 of those are under construction and the last 5,500 to which the member refers are soon going to be awarded through an RFP process.

The new process will ensure that the beds are built two years ahead of

schedule in that people will be required to have an option on land or to actually own land. They will also need to demonstrate that they have the financial resources and will be capable of undertaking that type of construction and having the project completed on time.

Mr Hastings: My supplementary relates to the community care access centres which the minister has voiced some concern about recently. She has announced, I believe, a program review of these CCACs. What I would like know is, how does the program review in terms of overall objectives fit in, in a synergistically complementary way, with the announcement on the long-term care and, fundamentally, how does this government's position contrast with the so-called alleged interests-if they have positions-of the parties opposite, especially the "gliberals"?

Hon Mrs Witmer: I think it's very important to appreciate that the delivery of health services throughout Canada today, and probably throughout the world, is quite different than it was 10 years ago. In fact, today many of the health problems that patients face are dealt with through the long-term care system and are dealt with through the community care access centres. Of course, we also have our hospitals and our primary care networks. So it's very important that we have an integration of these services and that they be coordinated and that there be good communication.

I'm pleased to say that if we take a look at our community care access centres, which did increase the access to these services by creating one-stop shopping, we are doing a review to make sure that the services are provided in the very best way possible. We also want to identify the program's strengths and take a look at where there may be some opportunities for improvement.

COMPENSATION FOR VICTIMS OF CRIME

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the Attorney General. In April 1999, a madman with a gun walked into the OC Transpo warehouse and shot and killed four people. The people of Ottawa thought that it would be appropriate and only right that, in the circumstances, through their duly elected municipal representatives, they provide some compensation to the families of these victims and so asked that the municipal council provide each family with $100,000 as compensation for being victims of this terrible crime. They thought it would be appropriate. They might need it to help them keep their houses or send the kids off to university.

Just recently, we have learned that the Mike Harris-appointed Ottawa Transition Board has reversed this decision. They called the Ottawa council decision a "gratuitous" decision. You tell us that you and your government are going to stand up for victims of crime. I'm asking you on behalf of those four families to, first of all, condemn the decision of the transition board and second, order that board to reverse their decision.

Hon Jim Flaherty (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs): I thank the leader of the official opposition for the question. The incidents to which he has referred were very serious tragic incidents in Ottawa and terrible consequences, of course, for the families of the victims. As you know, we've put victims first in Ontario. We introduced the bill just last week in the Legislature to statutorily create the Office for Victims of Crime.

In the bill that my colleague the Chair of the Management Board introduced on red tape last week, there is an increase in the compensation available for victims of crime to raise the maximum to in excess of $300,000, a change that has not been made, I might add, since 1986.

These are important initiatives. The Criminal Injuries Compensation Board is there to compensate victims of crime in Ontario and their families, as the Leader of the Opposition knows.

Mr McGuinty: Here is a very, very specific case. Let's remove ourselves from the abstract and focus on the specific. There are four families: the families of Harry Schoenmakers, Brian Guay, Clare Davidson and David Lemay. They were promised by the people of Ottawa through their duly elected municipal council that we would help them to the extent of $100,000 to each family.

Do you know how the widow of David Lemay found out about your transition board's decision to reverse this? She heard it on the radio. They didn't have the decency and the courtesy to pick up the phone and notify these families that they were going to undercut the will of the people of Ottawa to help out genuine victims of crime.

You say you're for victims of crime. Here's an opportunity to prove it. Stand up now and tell us that you are going to order this transition board to reverse its decision, and you can describe them for all of us as being callous and cold-hearted.

Hon Mr Flaherty: As the Leader of the Opposition will know, his question is directed to municipal affairs.

Hon Tony Clement (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): The honourable Leader of the Opposition has displayed a considerable amount of emotion here this afternoon. It's an emotion that I think we share on both sides of the House, in terms of the victims and their families.

It is a fact that the city council made a motion. It is a fact that the transition board weighed in on this and came to a conclusion that was different from the city council's. It is a fact that we will have municipal elections across this province on November 13 and that the new city council will take its place on January 1, and I suspect this will be a continuing issue of local concern in the new city of Ottawa as well.

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr Bob Wood (London West): My question is for the Minister of Community and Social Services. It concerns Ontario government funding for programs for people with developmental disabilities. More is being done for these people than ever before in the history of our province, but there is much more that can and should be done so that these people can participate to the fullest possible extent in the life of our province. What does the minister see is the future direction of funding for these services: up, no change or down?

Hon John R. Baird (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for francophone affairs): All of us in this House recognize the tremendous challenges facing people in our community with developmental disabilities, even the problems within this sector, and there is a real recognition that we, collectively as a society, have a tremendously important responsibility to provide supports to those vulnerable people in our community.

In my judgment, the future direction for this sector will require additional funds. That's why this government committed $35 million in new funding last year and a further increase of $50 million this year.

We've got to address the challenges of aging parents, who need some confidence that there will be care for their loved ones when they are no longer able to provide it; more services for young people leaving our school system; indeed more employment supports to allow every person with a developmental disability to deal with the challenge of finding employment; and day programming and supports.

Mr Wood: I know those involved will find that answer to be very good news indeed.

The minister is aware of the southwest regional centre and some of the concerns that have been expressed about its future. What assurance can he give the centre's residents and their families that they will continue to receive the services they need and that the province will continue to fund them?

Hon Mr Baird: Obviously, we have a tremendous responsibility to individuals living in the three remaining institutions in Ontario. All three political parties, and indeed the last four or five governments, have strongly supported community living. But to the member opposite who may have constituents with family members, loved ones and friends at the southwest regional centre, we will obviously take the time to consult and look at the future after the last community living initiative expired in March this year. Obviously we'll want to ensure that supports continue to be in place.

I did notice in the London Free Press this week that Murray Hamilton, the executive director of Community Living London, said, "More than 1,000 people have left facilities in southwestern Ontario in the last 20 years.... In my judgment they are all doing quite well. I think their quality of life has improved very significantly. They have more independence than they've had." Indeed, that's the standard to which we'll want to strive in any reforms in this sector to provide services for these vulnerable friends, citizens, neighbours and co-workers.

HOME CARE

Ms Frances Lankin (Beaches-East York): My question is to the Minister of Health. Minister, I want to ask you to put patients first and to end the competitive bidding process for homemaking services.

This is the latest example of how patient care is suffering under your failed scheme. I have recently learned that Sarnia-Lambton VON homemakers have been directed to deduct travel time from the time they spend with patients. Let me be clear about that. If it takes a half an hour to get from patient X to patient Y, they've been told to leave patient X's house 15 minutes early and to arrive at patient Y's house 15 minutes late. That means if a person is entitled to an hour of care, they're going to get 45 minutes.

A real example: a homemaker who has to travel from Sarnia to Camlachie every morning to deal with helping in personal care support a teenage paraplegic get ready for the day has been instructed to take that half an hour it takes to drive from Sarnia to Camlachie off the time spent with that teenager. That teenager needs an hour to get ready to face the day. He is entitled to an hour of CCAC care funded by the government. He's getting a half an hour because the homemaker has to be covered for half an hour's travel.

You said competitive bidding would lead to innovation. Is this what you mean by innovation in health care?

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): The CCACs in the province of Ontario this year will be delivering care to approximately 420,000 people. I think it's important to understand that the money that is provided to the CCACs and the services they provide to the people in this province are totally funded by the province. We have certainly the most well funded system in all of Canada. It is the most generous home care system. In fact, we are one of only a few provinces that even makes this available. I can assure you that we are reviewing the system, but certainly it is a generous system.

We have recently added $92 million to the system in order to expand the provision of services, and we will continue to provide even more additional funding in the future.

Ms Lankin: Minister, this teenager, who happens to be a paraplegic and needs and is entitled to support, and is eligible for an hour's support, is getting half an hour under your competitive bidding scheme. Your competitive bidding scheme is driving down wages and it is driving down quality of care. Not-for-profits like the VON, like the SPRINT workers here in Toronto who are out on strike, the CCAC workers in Hamilton who are out on strike, are all underbidding to get their contracts in this new system of yours. Don't you understand that when they're up against a financial bind to deliver service, that money is coming out of the care for patients and it's coming out on the backs of workers?

This review that you've announced for competitive bidding is being exposed by everyone as a complete sham. It's closed door, it's backroom, it's between you and the service providers and the CCACs. Why don't you invite the SPRINT workers who are here today to the table to talk about this? Why don't you invite the CCAC workers in Hamilton, the VON workers in Sarnia? This crisis is spreading across the province. If you think your announcement about emergencies is going to solve the problem, you're going to have them stacked up like cord wood, because these people aren't going to be there in the community to deliver the service.

You don't need a review. You need to do the right thing: just put an end to competitive bidding in home care services.

Hon Mrs Witmer: I would just remind the member opposite that in this province we do have the most generous home care system. We are funding individuals to the tune of about $128 per capita. Our service levels are as high or higher than any other province in Canada. In fact, six of 10 jurisdictions in Canada charge a copayment for personal care and homemaking services. I'm also pleased to say that $488 million will be going to community services this year.

Interruption.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Minister, take a seat. I'm afraid we'll have to ask our guest to leave.

I believe the Minister of Health had the floor.

Hon Mrs Witmer: Again, I would just like to indicate that in this province we have a home care service we can be very proud of. It is among the most generous; in fact, it is the most generous in all of Canada. It is totally funded by the government. I would just like to indicate that this past month we have added $92.5 million to the community services that we've made available.

COMPENSATION FOR VICTIMS OF CRIME

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): I want to return to the Attorney General, the self-proclaimed champion of victims' rights here in Ontario. Minister, there are four families in the Ottawa area who have a loved one who is not coming home. Their parents and loved ones were shot dead in April of last year. These are truly, sincerely and genuinely victims of a terrible crime.

You tell us you stand up for victims of crime in Ontario. I'm asking you to do that right here and now. The people of Ottawa want to turn over some of their money. We're not even talking here about the province's money; we're talking about money that the people of Ottawa want to give to our victims of crime. I'm asking you, on behalf of those families, Minister, why won't you condemn the decision of the Mike Harris transition team, and why won't you order them to reverse their terrible, cold and callous decision?

Hon Jim Flaherty (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs): As I indicated in my previous answer, our concern for victims in Ontario is made plain by the fact that this is the government that first created an Office for Victims of Crime in Ontario, which we're now statutorily creating if the bill before the House passes. We have also moved forward with increasing the maximum monetary jurisdiction of the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board, which hasn't been done since 1986 under the Liberal government or under the NDP government from 1990 to 1995.

If the families to which the Leader of the Opposition refers have not applied to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board, then I'd be pleased to inform them about the rights they have in that regard. If that's the member's information, I wish he'd tell me that.

Mr McGuinty: It's obvious that when the going gets tough, this minister is absolutely weak-kneed when it comes to standing up for victims of crime in Ontario.

I'm asking you, Minister, to have the intestinal fortitude to roundly criticize your transition team for reneging on a deal that was put together by the people of Ottawa. I'm asking you to stand up for victims of crime. Here is a real test of your commitment. You are all talk and no action when it comes to standing up for victims of crime. We in Ottawa decided that the right thing to do in the circumstances was to help these families by giving them each $100,000. In the circumstances, it is nothing in the grand scheme of things, but it's the least we might do.

Minister, I'm asking you to stand up for those victims, stand up to the transition board, roundly criticize them and order them to reverse their cold and callous decision.

Hon Mr Flaherty: I'm sure the Leader of the Opposition knows, since he's a lawyer, that the power to make that kind of order lies with the new city of Ottawa council, not with the province of Ontario. The member, being from Ottawa and being a lawyer, knows that.

Now, the Leader of the Opposition's information is that these families have not applied for or received the compensation to which they're likely entitled, through the government of Ontario, through the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board, which I think we all support as members in this House, then I'd appreciate if he'd pass that information on to me and I'll do everything we can to make sure the families access the funds to which they're likely entitled under the criminal injuries legislation in Ontario.

WATER AND SEWER INFRASTRUCTURE

Mr Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): My question is for my honourable friend the Minister of Municipal Affairs. I would expect that most members of this House would agree with me that all levels of government should be examining their policies and procedures which help to ensure that our drinking water is clean and safe and that we all have a stake in making certain that there is public confidence in our water supply.

In the wake of the Walkerton tragedy, this has been a challenge for all of us. My riding of Waterloo-Wellington is less than 33 kilometres from Walkerton and, as such, I share many of the views of my colleague the member for Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound that vigilant efforts are needed to, as much as humanly possible, make sure that this kind of catastrophe never happens again.

There are many communities in Ontario, and indeed in Waterloo-Wellington, which lack the financial resources necessary to upgrade their sewer and water systems. The government recognized this reality in the summer with the announcement of the Ontario small town and rural development infrastructure program. Will the minister inform the House about this new initiative?

Hon Tony Clement (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): I would certainly thank the honourable member for Waterloo-Wellington for the question and say that of course it's our job as the provincial government to set the rules and to ensure that they are enforced. But it is the job of municipalities to deliver water and sewer services, to make sure that the facilities are up to standard and that the water in their communities is actually safe. Of course, it's everyone's responsibility to use our resources wisely and to conserve water when we can.

On August 8, I was pleased to participate, along with the Premier and Minister Newman, when our government announced Operation Clean Water. Under this program there is a new set of standards initiated to improve water quality and delivery across the province.

On August 10, I was pleased to announce that the province was committing $240 million over the next two years through OSTAR, the Ontario small town and rural development initiative program, to help municipalities meet and comply with the new regulations under Operation Clean Water. Applications are out there. They were due October 6, and the municipalities have been very responsive to that initiative.

Mr Arnott: I want to thank the minister for his response and thank the Minister of the Environment for his support of this important program as well. However, it has been my contention for some time that a more significant investment is required in this area and that a minimum of $500 million should be allocated for the purpose of helping small municipalities upgrade their sewer and water systems.

I have read published reports that the government is negotiating with the federal government to assist us in this regard, largely based on the model of the joint federal-provincial-municipal infrastructure program of a few years ago. In this way, we could expect that our $240-million provincial investment would be matched with an equal contribution from the federal government.

We know that considerable resources are needed. For example, in my riding the town of Minto alone is projecting a multi-million dollar price tag to comply with the new Ontario drinking water protection regulations.

Will the minister advise the House on the status of these negotiations with the federal government in light of today's published reports that the federal surplus may exceed $121 billion over the next five years?

Hon Mr Clement: The honourable member is quite correct. Indeed, the Ontario government is fighting hard for Ontario communities to get their fair share of federal funding to match the province's OSTAR contribution.

The government has also asked the Ontario SuperBuild board of directors to work with the ministries of environment, municipal affairs and housing, agriculture and rural affairs, northern development and mines, and other municipalities and public and private stakeholders to bring a long-term water and sewer investment and financing strategy.

We each have a role to play to ensure that we have reliable and safe infrastructure. We each need to show leadership, to set priorities, to be accountable for the decisions that we make. We all need to bring some new ideas to the table as we look for better, more efficient ways and safer ways to deliver our services. We each have our job to do, and if everybody does their job, we can meet this challenge head-on and indeed succeed.

TRANSIT SERVICES

Mr George Smitherman (Toronto Centre-Rosedale): I have a question today for the Minister of Transportation, or, as he's increasingly known here in the GTA, the minister of gridlock.

Ontario Liberals believe the province of Ontario has a role to play in the development of an integrated transportation system for the GTA. In fact, Toronto is the only region in all of the industrialized world that receives no benefit from its senior level of government.

Recently, to try to address some of the problems with gridlock, GO Transit introduced an innovative bus service from Oakville to Markham. That service, Minister, as you well know, uses Highway 407. One of the impediments that our public transit system has encountered is a $50,000 annual operating fee to use the 407.

Last week, the Greater Toronto Services Board transportation committee passed the following resolution, "The transportation committee recommends that the province of Ontario exempt GO Transit buses and all other public transportation vehicles from toll fees on all highways in the province of Ontario."

Minister, will you stop being an impediment to those who are struggling to reduce gridlock? Will you exempt the GO buses from fees on the 407?

Hon David Turnbull (Minister of Transportation): It's an interesting discussion as to the fact that we don't fund transit. In point of fact, during local services realignment we reallocated funding. We uploaded to the province half of the cost of residential taxes for education. That created $2.5 billion worth of tax room for the municipalities. One of the specific areas that was to be a responsibility of the municipalities was transit. If municipalities want to renegotiate this deal, we have said we're prepared to talk, but it has to be a revenue-neutral transaction.

To date, since we've signalled that, there isn't a single municipality that has come back to us and suggested how they would square that equation.

Mr Smitherman: We've heard this answer from this one-trick pony before. I'm going to go back to the Minister of Transportation and I'm going to give him a chance to focus on the question at hand. The question at hand is with respect to Highway 407 and the costs that were incurred there. Was there any attempt on the part of your ministry to defend the interests of public transit users in the greater Toronto area, who are struggling against all odds and against your government to unlock the problem with gridlock?

Mr Minister, will you review the situation that sees GO Transit paying exorbitant fees to use highway 407 as they attempt to give better service to 905 residents? Will you review this, and will you commit to exempting public transit users on the 407 from these fees?

Hon Mr Turnbull: The 407 is a privately owned road. They have a 99-year operating lease. In fact, we have reserved for the province the right to put transitway in at a later date. With respect to municipal transit buses electing to use the 407, that's a decision of the operating organizations that you're speaking about. We have no ability to direct the private operator of that road, who is spending half a billion dollars in expanding that road at no cost to the taxpayer. We sold the highway at considerable profit to all of the taxpayers of this province.

GOOD NEIGHBOURS PROGRAM

Mr Joseph N. Tascona (Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford): My question is for the Minister of Citizenship, Culture and Recreation. Neighbours helping neighbours is the hallmark of a strong community. In my own riding this Friday, I will be proudly honouring some unsung heroes nominated by their neighbours. They volunteered at food banks, initiated an adopt-a-grandparent program in elementary and secondary schools and developed a buddy system for seniors. What is the government doing to encourage individual Ontarians to reach out and help others in their communities?

Hon Helen Johns (Minister of Citizenship, Culture and Recreation, minister responsible for seniors and women): I'd like to thank the member for Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford for the question. Let me say that this week, October 9 to October 15, is Good Neighbours Week in the province. During this week, we're celebrating all of the good deeds and generosity that Ontarians show to one another, the helping hands that they give one another.

Let me say that this is the 10th year of the Good Neighbours awards, the Good Neighbours celebrations in Ontario. The program encourages people to lend a hand to their neighbours, to their communities, to people who are vulnerable, who may have disabilities, who have illnesses and who need help in their communities.

As of today, we have 32 active Good Neighbours councils in our communities. We have 26 community councils under development. I'm proud to say that seven new councils have been formed in northern Ontario.

Mr Tascona: Government, business and individual Ontarians share in the responsibility to make Ontario's communities safe places to live, work and raise a family. How is the government working in partnership with other sectors to encourage Good Neighbours?

Hon Mrs Johns: Let me say that working in partnership is the short answer to that. The Ministry of Citizenship, Culture and Recreation works closely with the Good Neighbours Trust and the Good Neighbours council to encourage Good Neighbours communities. The Good Neighbours Trust is a group of private and non-profit organizations, including the Royal Bank of Canada and Enbridge Consumers Gas. They focus on fundraising for this program. The trust has generated more than $250,000 in cash and in-kind services to help Good Neighbours communities all across this wonderful province.

Ontario's quality of life is rooted in our ability to care for one another, to be kind to one another. I believe that the Good Neighbours program and the Good Neighbours Trust and our corporate partners ensure that this happens-that we have safe communities, that we have communities that involve volunteers, that we encourage local initiatives and we strengthen our communities. Good Neighbours-please celebrate this week.

AIR AMBULANCE SERVICE

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a question for the Minister of Health, and it's regarding her complete mismanagement of air ambulance contracts. On September 13, your government announced it was going to privatize critical-care paramedics. On September 20, your government issued notices to all 35 paramedics that they had five days to decide if they would continue to work for a private operator, even though they don't know who that will be, or take a severance package and leave the public service altogether. All 35 decided to leave the public service.

At the same time that this was happening, Mr Derek Tupling, who is on your political staff, was saying the following: that the government will be asking for bids from the private sector over the next few weeks but it may also decide to maintain the current system.

Minister, you gave people five days to decide what to do, and they have left the public service. As a result, we have lost the skills of 35 highly qualified advance-care paramedics. How can you possibly justify how this has been so completely mismanaged?

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I think it's important to put this into perspective, and the perspective is that air ambulances and ambulances in this province have been owned and operated by private companies since the 1970s. I think it's also important to note that if we take a look at air ambulances today, 70% of all the staff presently are already employed by private operators.

So what the ministry is doing right now is taking a look at that part of the air ambulance system that involves the critical-care transport staffing. I do want to stress that no decisions have been made concerning this matter. The RFPs will require bidders to submit two proposals: one for provision of pilots, aircraft and maintenance only; and the other for pilots, aircraft and maintenance plus critical-care transport staff.

The current contract with the providers of critical-care transport, rotary-wing and fixed-wing air ambulances ends on September 30, 2001. The objective of the RFPs is to establish the highest quality, best price.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Supplementary.

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): Minister, you talk about trying to put things into perspective. The reality is that air paramedics have been, for the duration of these contracts, public sector employees. You have taken the entire air paramedic system and put it completely into chaos. You went to them and said, "You have five days by which to accept either a severance package or take your chances that we will not privatize the air paramedics." They took you at your word.

They've accepted, all 35 of them, that severance package, and now, as a result, we're losing all 35 highly skilled, highly devoted and motivated air paramedics. You are creating a crisis. We want to know from you simply, how can you justify your mismanagement of what is a quality air paramedic system in this province?

Hon Mrs Witmer: I don't think the member opposite heard the original comment, which was to indicate that at the present time 70% of the staff that are employed by the air ambulance system are already part of the private system and they are employed by private operators. We are issuing two RFPs, and we are following through, as required under the contract.

PETITIONS

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

Mr Rick Bartolucci (Sudbury): This petition is to the Ontario Legislature, and it concerns northerners demanding the Harris government eliminate the health care apartheid it is presently practising.

"Whereas the northern health travel grant offers a reimbursement of partial travel costs at a rate of 30.4 cents per kilometre one way for northerners forced to travel for cancer care while travel policy for southerners who travel for cancer care features full reimbursement costs for travel, meals and accommodation; and

"Whereas a cancer tumour knows no health travel policy or geographic location; and

"Whereas a recently released Oracle research poll confirms that 92% of Ontarians support equal health travel funding; and

"Whereas northern Ontario residents pay the same amount of taxes and are entitled to the same access to health care and all government services and inherent civil rights as residents living elsewhere in the province; and

"Whereas we support the efforts of the newly formed OSECC (Ontarians Seeking Equal Cancer Care), founded by Gerry Lougheed Jr, former chair of Cancer Care Ontario, Northeast Region, to correct this injustice against northerners travelling for cancer treatment;

"Therefore,

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, petition the Ontario Legislature to demand the Mike Harris government move immediately to fund full travel expenses for northern Ontario cancer patients and eliminate the health care apartheid which exists presently in the province of Ontario."

Of course, I proudly affix my signature to this petition.

INVESTIGATION INTO CHILD ABUSE

Mr John C. Cleary (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas Garry Guzzo, MPP, Ottawa West-Nepean, has brought forward Bill 103, 2000,

An Act to establish a commission of inquiry to inquire into the investigations by police forces for sexual abuse against minors in the Cornwall area; and

"Whereas Bill 103, 2000, has the public support of John Cleary, member for Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh,

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To enact Bill 103, Inquiry into Police Investigations of Sexual Abuse Against Minors in the Cornwall Area Act, 2000."

I have also signed that petition.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bert Johnson): I have some people standing between me and the people I want to recognize and I won't have it. I can't have you standing between me and somebody who's going to speak.

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a petition regarding this government's ongoing discrimination against northern cancer patients. It reads as follows:

"Whereas the northern health travel grant offers a reimbursement of partial travel costs at a rate of 30.4 cents per kilometre one way for northerners forced to travel for cancer care while travel policy for southerners who travel for cancer care features full reimbursement costs for travel, meals and accommodation;

"Whereas a cancer tumour knows no health travel policy or geographic location;

"Whereas northern Ontario residents pay the same amount of taxes and are entitled to the same access to health care and all government services and inherent civil rights as residents living elsewhere in the province;

"Whereas we support the efforts of the newly formed OSECC (Ontarians Seeking Equal Cancer Care), founded by Gerry Lougheed Jr, former chair of Cancer Care Ontario, Northeast Region, to correct this injustice against northerners travelling for cancer treatment;

"Therefore,

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, petition the Ontario Legislature to demand the Mike Harris government move immediately to fund full travel expenses for northern Ontario cancer patients and to eliminate the health care apartheid which exists presently in the province of Ontario."

This petition is signed by many residents from my riding. I agree with them and I'd like to thank Gerry Lougheed Jr for all his work on this issue.

Mrs Lyn McLeod (Thunder Bay-Atikokan): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas the northern health travel grant was introduced in 1987 in recognition of the fact that northern Ontario residents are often forced to receive treatment outside their own communities because of the lack of available services; and

"Whereas the Ontario government acknowledged that the cost associated with that travel should not be fully borne by those residents and therefore that financial support should be provided by the Ontario government through the travel grant program; and

"Whereas travel, accommodation and other costs have escalated sharply since the program was first put in place, particularly in the area of air travel; and

"Whereas the Ontario government has provided funds so that southern Ontario patients needing care at the Northwestern Ontario Cancer Centre have all their expenses paid while receiving treatment in the north which creates a double standard for health care delivery in the province; and

"Whereas northern Ontario residents should not receive a different level of health care nor be discriminated against because of their geographical locations;

"Therefore we, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, petition the Ontario Legislature to acknowledge the unfairness and inadequacy of the northern health travel grant program and commit to a review of the program with a goal of providing 100% funding of the travel costs for residents needing care outside their communities until such time as that care is available in our communities."

This is signed by dozens more of my concerned constituents and I affix my signature in full agreement with their concerns.

EDUCATION REFORM

Mr Tony Ruprecht (Davenport): Thank you very much for permitting me to read this petition. It is addressed to the Minister of Education and Training. This is probably wrong, but I have to read this into the record because it was given to me.

"We believe that the heart of education in our province is the relationship between student and teacher and that this human and relational dimension should be maintained and extended in any proposed reform. As Minister of Education you should know how strongly we oppose many of the secondary school reform recommendations being proposed by your ministry and by your government.

"We therefore strongly urge your ministry to delay the implementation of secondary school reform so that all interested stakeholders-parents, students, school councils, trustees and teachers-are able to participate in a more meaningful consultation process which will help ensure that a high quality of publicly funded education is provided."

Since I agree with this petition, I'm delighted to sign my name to it.

KARLA HOMOLKA

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): It's my pleasure to present a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo were responsible for terrorizing entire communities in southern Ontario; and

"Whereas the Ontario government of the day made a deal with the devil with Karla Homolka, resulting in a sentence that does not truly make her pay for her crimes; and

"Whereas our communities have not yet fully recovered from the trauma and sadness caused by Karla Homolka; and

"Whereas Karla Homolka believes that she should be entitled to a pass to leave prison"-I might say for the record here that it's actually out west now-"with an escort; and

"Whereas the people of Ontario believe that criminals should be forced to serve sentences that truly reflect the seriousness of their crimes;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, respectfully petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the government of Ontario will:

"Do everything within its power to ensure that Karla Homolka serves her full sentence;

"Continue to reform parole and make it more difficult for serious offenders to return to our streets;

"Fight the federal government's plan to release up to 1,600 more convicted criminals on to Ontario streets; and

"Ensure that the Ontario government's sex offender registry is functioning as quickly as possible."

This was brought forward by Marilyn Mushinski , the MPP for Scarborough Centre. I commend her for her work.

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bert Johnson): The Chair recognizes the member for the new GM V-6 engine plant, the member for St Catharines.

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): Thank you very much for mentioning that, Mr Speaker. It's very kind of you and very good news for the residents of St Catharines today.

This is a petition to the Ontario Legislature.

"Whereas the northern health travel grant offers a reimbursement of partial travel costs at a rate of 30.4 cents per kilometre one way for northerners forced to travel for cancer care while travel policy for southerners who travel for cancer care features full reimbursement costs for travel, meals and accommodation;

"Whereas a cancer tumour knows no health travel policy or geographic location;

"Whereas a recently released Oracle research poll confirms that 92% of Ontarians support equal health travel funding;

"Whereas northern Ontario residents pay the same amount of taxes and are entitled to the same access to health care and all government services and inherent civil rights as residents living elsewhere in the province; and

"Whereas we support the efforts of the newly formed OSECC (Ontarians Seeking Equal Cancer Care), founded by Gerry Lougheed Jr, former chair of Cancer Care Ontario, Northeast Region, to correct this injustice against northerners travelling for cancer treatment;

"Therefore,

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, petition the Ontario Legislature to demand the Mike Harris government move immediately to fund full travel expenses for northern Ontario cancer patients and eliminate the health care apartheid which exists presently in the province of Ontario."

I affix my signature as I am in complete agreement.

The Deputy Speaker: Further petitions? The Chair recognizes the member for Durham.

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): You've recognized the wrong person.

Mr Bradley: Mr Speaker: This is a point of order on a petition. I heard a petition the member for Durham was reading, and I wondered if he had seen this headline, which no doubt you have seen, that says, "Tories Stand by Deal with the Devil." I just wondered if you had seen this and if the member had seen this.

The Deputy Speaker: That is not a point of order. Further petitions?

Mr David Caplan (Don Valley East): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario and I'd like to read it in the House today.

"Whereas the northern health travel grant was introduced in 1987 in recognition of the fact that northern Ontario residents are often forced to receive treatment outside their own communities because of the lack of available services; and

"Whereas the Ontario government acknowledged that the costs associated with that travel should not be fully borne by those residents and, therefore, that financial support should be provided by the Ontario government through the travel grant program; and

"Whereas travel, accommodation and other costs have escalated sharply since the program was first put in place, particularly in the area of air travel; and

"Whereas the Ontario government has provided funds so that southern Ontario patients needing care at the Northwestern Ontario Cancer Centre have all their expenses paid while receiving treatment in the north which creates," in essence, "a double standard for health care delivery in the province; and

"Whereas northern Ontario residents should not receive a different level of health care nor be discriminated against because of their geographical locations;

"Therefore we, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, petition the Ontario Legislature to acknowledge the unfairness and inadequacy of the northern health travel grant program and commit to a review of the program with a goal of providing 100% funding of the travel costs for residents needing care outside their communities until such time as that care is available in our communities" in the north.

This is a very important petition, one that has taken up much of the time of the Legislature in questions of the ministers. I wholeheartedly agree with it and I will affix my signature to this petition.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

RED TAPE REDUCTION ACT, 2000 / LOI DE 2000 VISANT À RÉDUIRE LES FORMALITÉS ADMINISTRATIVES

Mr Wood, on behalf of Mr Hodgson, moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 119,

An Act to reduce red tape, to promote good government through better management of Ministries and agencies and to improve customer service by amending or repealing certain Acts and by enacting two new Acts / Projet de loi 119, Loi visant à réduire les formalités administratives, à promouvoir un bon gouvernement par une meilleure gestion des ministères et organismes et à améliorer le service à la clientèle en modifiant ou abrogeant certaines lois et en édictant deux nouvelles lois.

Mr Bob Wood (London West): I'll be sharing my time with the members for Scarborough Centre, Guelph-Wellington and Northumberland.

What is red tape? The Pythagorean theorem revolutionized geometry, and it's 26 words long. The Gettysburg address, in which Abraham Lincoln effectively ended slavery and transformed a nation, is 286 words long. That's not red tape. The United States Department of Agriculture regulation on how to provide a safe cabbage is 26,911 words long. That's red tape. How do you take 26,911 words to make sure people get a safe cabbage?

As a lawyer coming from a profession with some 10,000 years of experience in creating and maintaining red tape, I can explain. You ask for information not needed to provide a safe cabbage. You use 10 words when one will do. You make people do things that have nothing to do with a safe cabbage. You make the wording complicated. You repeat, repeat and repeat again.

What's the net result of red tape? Well, in France it effectively takes six weeks to incorporate a simple company. In Ontario it takes one to two days.

Our definition of red tape is any process or procedure we put you through as a citizen, as a business, or put one of our public servants through, that is not absolutely required to achieve an identified public objective. That's red tape. It does not in any way weaken health, safety or environmental protections. Our goal is to eliminate everything but the absolutely essential and to make Ontario the best jurisdiction in the world for regulatory excellence.

It's a difficult, time-consuming, challenging and exciting job, and it's also absolutely essential to good service for our citizens and economic growth for the province. Even our friends in France-the socialist government of France has established a red tape commission.

Since the founding of our commission in 1995, it has helped some 170 people and businesses with individual red tape problems. It has undertaken extensive consultation on red tape issues and co-ordinated the preparation and passage of 13 red tape reduction laws. It has helped to revoke 1,300 outdated regulations and helped improve many regulatory processes.

How are we going to continue this work? We're going to do it by continuing our Ombudsman function. As the House knows, when we receive a complaint, we have our civil servants deal with the civil servants in the ministry involved. If that doesn't achieve a satisfactory resolution, the commission deals with the minister's office and, if necessary, the minister directly. If that fails, we seek guidance from our boss, who is of course the Premier of Ontario.

I would like to invite everyone in the House today, or everyone who is not here but a member of the House, and every citizen of this province to let us help you where you see a red tape problem. We're also looking to get as many new red-tape-cutting ideas as possible and implement them. We need ideas from citizens, we need them from business, we need them from other jurisdictions and we need them from our own public service.

We are working, as you may be aware, to develop a business impact test to find out what regulations cost the government and hopefully what they cost businesses and the public as well. We are hopeful of having at least one, and hopefully two, red tape bills each year in the Legislature in order to cut red tape. The bill before you today is of course one of those bills.

We also, by the way, want to make sure that our government forms and form systems are 21st-century-friendly: the clearest, simplest and most efficient possible. To that end, we have a subcommittee of the commission working with some of the bureaucrats at Management Board who are tasked with actually making this happen. They are going to work very closely with the Service Ontario and Ontario Business Connects projects in the Ministry of Consumer and Commercial Relations in order to achieve far better service and far faster service for the people of this province.

One example, by the way, of what can be achieved in terms of better service has already happened in my county of Middlesex, which is the first place in the world to achieve full electronic land registration. That system gives us a working model of what can be achieved by processing information electronically. Not only is it providing everything we expected in terms of faster service and less cost for those operating the system and for those using the system, it also is generating some side benefits, such as even the lawyers cutting out some of the paperwork to get the job done.

This bill offers the latest legislative proposals we've received to cut red tape in some 15 ministries. If passed, it would remove two unused acts from the books and streamline 75 acts to provide improved customer service and more efficient government.

Some examples of what this bill does are:

It eliminates the requirement to apply for a change of name within 90 days of marriage.

It protects consumers by prohibiting the charging of significant upfront fees by credit repair companies for services that consumers can do for themselves at little or no cost.

It provides insurance benefits to volunteer auxiliary police officers if they are injured while providing service.

It enhances the Niagara Escarpment Commission's ability to issue stop-work orders regarding unapproved developments.

Red tape reduction is about making it easier, faster and less expensive for both business and the public when dealing with government; encouraging investment in Ontario by breaking down barriers to conduct and manage business; simplifying processes to reduce overlap with other legislation and improving overall efficiency and customer service; and finally, harmonizing and modernizing legislation among ministries.

Cutting red tape is essential to giving better service to our citizens and attracting investment and jobs to Ontario. I urge all members to support this bill.

Ms Marilyn Mushinski (Scarborough Centre): It gives me great pleasure to rise in this House today in support of continued red tape reduction. I'm very pleased to be speaking on the Red Tape Reduction Act, 2000, introduced by my colleague, Minister Chris Hodgson, just one week ago on October 4.

Since that time, I have had the opportunity to review this act, and I can honestly say that I believe it is one of the finest pieces of legislation I have had the pleasure to support in this House in the past five years.

We all know that the battle to eliminate red tape continues. We know that this act and its predecessors and other acts to follow will eliminate the red tape that has been building up in this province for over 100 years. We made some commitments going into the election in 1995, and again in 1999, that we are determined to make Ontario one of the best jurisdictions for regulatory excellence in the world.

This particular bill contains a number of minor technical and administrative amendments that will vastly improve customer service and government efficiency by improving standards and providing greater protection to consumers and other individuals.

For example, changes to the Consumer Reporting Act will improve protection for consumers from credit repair agencies who try to charge up front for fixing a credit rating but don't deliver on that promise.

Some proposals strengthen environmental protection, something that I know we all desire in this House.

Another example: the bill contains new legislation, and that's the Environmental Review Tribunal Act. This new legislation formalizes the 1997 merger of the former Environmental Assessment Board and the former Environmental Appeal Board.

Now, it shouldn't surprise you that all of this red tape that has been created over the years was largely created by the two previous governments to the point that they created all of these, some would say duplicitous as well as duplicate, agencies, which not only tripled red tape but contributed to the substantial deficit we inherited, to the tune of $11.8 billion in 1995.

Under this new red tape reduction legislation, the boards can now share a physical location and they can share staff, resources and members as well. There has been no substantial change to the procedures of the previous boards, but what has changed is that the process has become much simpler.

Additionally, the Ministry of Natural Resources has a number of positive proposals, including changes to the Forestry Act that provide greater flexibility to respond to pest outbreaks, something that I know we on this side of the House have been looking for for a long, long time.

The goal of all these red tape reduction bills is to really streamline administration so business can meet standards and spend less time jumping through administrative hoops. Business can concentrate on what to do best: fuelling the economy and creating jobs. Businesses can get started, create more jobs and operate successfully in Ontario without having to worry about excessive red tape. Business and the public will find that it is easier, cheaper and faster to deal with government when troublesome red tape is eliminated or reduced.

Investment in Ontario will be encouraged when barriers to establishing, conducting and managing businesses are eliminated or reduced. Harmonized and modernized legislation will be created among ministries. Overlapping legislation will be reduced, and overall efficiency and customer service will improve in government.

This bill represents the cumulative effort of 15 ministries that have identified red tape within their policies and programs or have had problems identified by their stakeholders. I am particularly proud of the achievements of the Red Tape Commission, headed by the great member for London West, a good colleague. I was very pleased when the Premier appointed me to this commission in the summer of this year. I can attest to the magnificent leadership of my colleague the member for London West.

We have passed 12 red tape reduction bills since 1995. They have eliminated 33 outdated acts and amended more than 200 others.

Here are a few more of our achievements.

In 1997, the Red Tape Commission produced a report with 132 recommendations to eliminate red tape, based on consultations with business, institutions and individuals. The Red Tape Commission developed a regulatory impact and competitiveness test approved and used by cabinet to prevent the creeping introduction of new red tape. The Red Tape Commission coordinated the introduction and passage of 12 red tape reduction bills: 33 acts have been repealed and more than 200 acts amended. The commission coordinated the spring 2000 red tape reduction bill that contained an additional 300 amendments.

The commission has worked with ministries to revoke more than 1,300 regulations and has intervened on behalf of more than 150 businesses and individuals regarding specific red tape problems with ministries and agencies. In 1999 the Red Tape commission submitted the Unfinished Business report to Premier, containing yet another 40 recommendations to reduce red tape.

In the Ministry of Northern Development and Mines, under the Mining Act, this amendment gives the Minister of Northern Development and Mines the authority to approve a refund due to an administrative or rounding error. The approval of the Lieutenant Governor in Council will no longer be required. This will mean faster processing of refunds, something that is a completely foreign notion to the previous two governments.

There is a bunch of other stuff that I could say about good government and common sense, because that is what red tape reduction is all about.

For instance, in the Ministry of the Environment, we have the Environmental Review Tribunal Act, which I have already spoken about, which consolidates and eliminates administrative overlap and duplication.

In the Ministry of Natural Resources, there's the Conservation Land Act, where the Ministry of Natural Resources is facilitating the conservation of Canada's natural heritage by expanding a mechanism by which US residents can make gifts of land in Ontario while both deriving the associated tax benefits against their US income and avoiding the disincentive of incurring capital gains tax in Canada.

Under the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care, the ministry is cleaning up its legislative framework by removing references to health insurance premiums which have not existed since the creation of the employer health tax.

Responding to the needs of Ontarians, the Attorney General, through the Execution Act, is actually increasing the amount of a debtor's assets that are exempt from seizure in order to allow them to retain a subsistence living and not be thrown onto the welfare rolls. The value of the exemptions is now less than 20% of what they were when the act was passed in 1965. Trustees in bankruptcy are required to seize from bankrupts everything that the Execution Act allows to be seized on a judgment. As a result, judgment debtors and bankrupts have been forced on to social assistance despite the policy of the statute to allow them enough to support themselves.

I could go on for a while highlighting the substantial benefits that this government has made in reducing red tape and helping not just the customers and the consumers and the taxpayers of this province, but of course businesses as well, which we know are the backbone to the economy of this country.

I will without further ado pass over to the member for Northumberland, who I know is going to tell us more about the great initiatives of the red tape bill.

Mr Doug Galt (Northumberland): I appreciate being able to follow my good friend from Scarborough Centre and her excellent presentation, and the member for London West and his excellent presentation, on red tape.

Certainly this has been an area of great concern to our government. You may recall that back in the spring of 1995 we were very committed to eliminating red tape, and there's no question that a considerable amount has been reduced during the last five years.

One of the biggest areas that I see, and it's very harmful to our economy, is the hidden tax that red tape creates, a horrendous tax on our businesses, on our society, on people in our community, on volunteers. It's the kind of tax that we generally are unaware of unless we have a look at something like red tape and the red tape bill and have a look at what it's really costing us on a day-to-day basis.

There is no question that genuine, quality regulations are needed. They are needed there to protect the public, to protect their interests, whether it be for the environment-as the Minister of the Environment has recently come in with more regulations to protect drinking water even though the regulations we already had, if followed, would have protected the drinking water in this province-or regulations that protect health and safety. Certainly we are very concerned about the safety of workers in the workplace, and of course labour practices.

Many of these regulations are very admirable in their intent, but as I mentioned a little earlier, often it is a form of taxation that is imposed as an undue burden on the ability of business to operate efficiently.

I remember, during the campaign in 1995, being at an all-candidates session when the Liberal, who was actually a sitting member at the time, made the comment that her government would get rid of 50% of the red tape. Fifty percent is totally unsatisfactory. If businesses and people are going to prosper in this province, we have to get rid of all the red tape that's out there. My definition of red tape is useless, unnecessary regulations that create things like an extra tax, which some might call a hidden tax.

There is no question that overregulation impedes economic growth by forcing firms to spend their time doing what the government tells them, rather than actually being able to run their businesses. It's been calculated that our small businesses, typically referred to as mom-and-pop operations, have to spend six hours a week just looking after government regulations and filling out the forms that are necessary to go along with those regulations.

There has also been a study by the Conference Board of Canada. Based on the year 1994, they calculated that in this great country of ours it was costing some $85 billion just to meet compliance costs-$85 billion, just a horrendous amount. I hear some in the opposition saying, "Business can afford this. Business can afford that." When you start adding up some $85 billion, guess who really ends up paying for it? Yes, they may be making the widgets, but you and I end up buying those widgets, and somebody has to pay that hidden tax, that cost.

We have laws that restrict us in everything from buying beer-where and how we may purchase it-to the length of a wooden ladder. It was all understandable, particularly in the day it came in. I wonder how many wooden ladders are still being made today. Certainly there is a tremendously different attitude to the purchase of beer than there was four or five decades ago.

Since 1997, there has been a remarkable increase in the number of regulations we have in this great country of Canada. But as those regulations have increased, across Canada a very sharp decline in productivity has been experienced. This in turn has led to slower real income growth, which has resulted in huge losses to the economy in Canada and particularly in Ontario.

Other studies have suggested that some 12%, and even 30%, of the productivity slowdown can be blamed on excessive government regulation. I was really pleased yesterday to be able to join the debate on Bill 88, on e-commerce, on how our government is moving with the times to ensure that documents sent by e-mail and fax can be recognized as having an official signature and do not necessarily need to have the paper to accompany them.

The costs of regulations are sometimes greater than the benefits they create. When that starts to occur, it impedes economic growth and fails to meet the objectives that were set out in the first place. Needless to say, these costs are inevitably paid by the taxpayer at both the personal and the corporate levels.

Professor Wiedenbaum, at the Center for the Study of American Business, concluded in a study he carried out that every dollar spent on regulations by the government costs private firms some $20 in compliance costs: 20 times as much is being paid by companies just to match one dollar spent by government to develop the regulations. That is indeed a very hefty tax that is well concealed and well hidden.

In Ontario, the regulatory burden grew by leaps and bounds under the two previous governments. During that lost decade from 1985 to 1995, a tremendous number of new regulations appeared on the books. They were running at something like 1,000 new regulations every year, and of course no regulations were being taken off. This bill is really about getting rid of some of these regulations and getting rid of some of the acts that are no longer applicable. The longer they sit one the books and confuse lawyers as they study them and look at them, the more it costs private citizens and corporations here in the province.

We heard a lot of, "It wasn't our fault, the recessionary woes of the early 1990s," but I don't think there's any question that those regulations being laid on back in the late 1980s and into the early 1990s had a lot to do with the recession that occurred, a very serious recession. Many economists would say it was the most serious recession since the Depression back in the early 1930s. I well remember my parents describing to me the situation that Canada, particularly Ontario, was in back in the so-called Dirty Thirties. The kind of recession we were put through approached that kind of circumstance, and certainly regulations had a lot to do with that.

We look at the cousins of the Ontario NDP out on the Canadian left coast, and they couldn't even begin to compete with the number of regulations that the NDP government in Ontario brought in. They've been introducing some 500 a year, and just have a look at how their economy is doing: it's not. It's been a bit of a disaster out there. They started going downhill long before the Asian flu came along. You would ask why, when the American economy is booming.

Just across the border from them, in states like Wyoming and Iowa, their unemployment is sitting at 2% or slightly under; to get under 2% I'm told is almost impossible. When I was in BC a year or two ago, people were leaving by the hundreds and moving to prosperous provinces like Alberta. That didn't happen just because of their oil; it happened because of sound economic policies that had been carried out in that province. A lot of people from BC, fed up with red tape and overregulation and over-taxation, ended up moving to Alberta and many other places in Canada.

You can also identify right here in Ontario where people from BC have moved because of the kind of government they have on the Canadian left coast.

When you add the cost of the regulatory burden, the hidden tax, to the actual tax burden, you can see that Canada's economy has languished in the doldrums for so long. It's totally unacceptable, and it's great to see this bill and to see that something is being done about it.

I'd like to share with you some of the ridiculous laws in the US as well as here in Ontario that we've been suffering from. One, I believe, comes from Utah. There's a law there that prohibits people from cleaning their donkeys in a bathtub. I can't imagine why, in the first place, anybody would want to clean their donkey in a bathtub. Consequently, why would you have a regulation that prevents people from doing it? It sounds like something the Liberals would want to bring in, and I'm sure if they formed the government they just might want to do that.

In another US state, I believe California, people need to have a hunting licence to set a mousetrap. Now, I can understand that maybe the NDP might bring something like that into Ontario.

What we did have here in Ontario for a long time was that it was illegal to drink beer while sitting on your porch. If you wanted to drink beer outside you had to set a tent up, which was considered your temporary housing. We have moved a long way along and that has changed. At one time there was a requirement of a tavern to have a solid door and to have frosted windows and curtains so as not to allow children to see inside and become corrupted by the sight of people imbibing the demon rum. By today's standard we might think that's pretty silly.

As cultures change and societies move along, it's important-maybe those regulations had meaning once upon a time, but today they don't, and those kind of regulations need to be changed.

When we took office, I found it quite surprising. This party over here that talks so much about the environment and carries on, with members today yelling and screaming across the House over how important the environment is-the regulation we found they were still supporting was that it was illegal to recycle a pesticide container. It was legal to bury it. Now, this is a contaminated pesticide container. They allowed to go for five years that you could bury a pesticide container, but they made it illegal to recycle one.

We've been promoting recycling, the three Rs, literally since the beginning of time.

Hon John R. Baird (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for francophone affairs): We're a green government.

Mr Galt: As the member said, we're a green party. I don't think there's any question. Look at the environmental changes, the kind of changes we've made: a change in penalties, supporting the environment. It indeed is a very green party.

It was also interesting to note on the books after this party left after their five years, and of course the Liberals, when they thought they were such environmentalists, that if you released chlorinated drinking water, it had to be cleaned up as a hazardous substance. This is perfect drinking water, considered as a hazardous substance and had to be cleaned up as such.

Those were the kinds of regulations that were on the books when we took office. Certainly they were totally disgusting.

Some of the things we're removing I'd just like to make a little reference to in the next five minutes. One has to do with the Hunter Damage Compensation Act. This act was brought in back in 1979, a little-used act. For the last two years, there was only one inquiry on this particular act. To add to it, here's an example of duplication. Already, insurance policies that insure livestock cover hunter compensation, and then so does the government, so if the government pays for it, the insurance company doesn't.

I think the most ever paid was in the neighbourhood of $7,000 or $8,000 for something like 10 to 15 animals. Obviously, even at its peak, this compensation was minimal, costing far more to distribute and deal with than the real loss in itself. Plus, it was being covered by the insurance policies, which it makes so much sense to me would continue.

I wanted to also make reference to the change in the Dog Owners' Liability Act and the requirement that owners have to properly restrain their dog. One of the amendments in this red tape bill will require owners to take responsible precautions to prevent their dog from biting or attacking a person or another domestic animal. It will add new penalties that will deter irresponsible dog ownership. Certainly this is something I've supported for some time. We have too many irresponsible dog owners in the province. A very large portion are responsible, but some are not. Failure to take adequate precautions could result in fines of up to $5,000.

This act will also allow the courts to order that a dog be confined or restrained by a leash or muzzle until it is determined that the animal is indeed dangerous. Often, as I'm sure you're quite aware, Mr Speaker, living in the country, if animals are abused, they'll sometimes become violent. This is a natural reaction out of self-preservation.

For this reason and for other reasons, the minister has already specified that the act will authorize the court to prohibit a dog owner found liable under the legislation from owning another dog for a specified period of time. It will provide an automatic restraint order when a dog is order destroyed.

I believe this part of the red tape act will bring about a quick resolution when community members feel they have need to worry about a particular animal in their community. It will also provide authorities with better tools to help them in their job of protecting the public.

Also in this particular bill is compensation for victims of crime. There are changes in the Red Tape Reduction Act on that. This will bring about a high level of improvement in the level of service and funding available to victims.

This Red Tape Reduction Act will bring a serious increase in the amount of money that victims receive. In 1986, victims could receive a maximum amount of $250,000 in compensation. Taking inflation into account, this government has raised that ceiling to some $365,000. Victims will now receive payments for a longer period of time, payments that will take annual rates of inflation into account. Part of this red tape bill will extend the application period of the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board benefits from one year to two years. This is in response to the fact that the CICB currently receives some 1,500 requests per year to extend the application time.

All in all, I can see that this red tape bill is going to do a lot for the economy in Ontario. It will help to create more jobs. The two previous members walked through many aspects of this bill, affecting a dozen different ministries, I believe, everything from improving customer service to providing good government and common sense. I'm sure you will recall that when we campaigned in 1995 our platform was the Common Sense Revolution. It's one where the government delivers on its promises: promises made, promises kept. That is the hallmark of this government.

In conclusion, poverty rates, after-tax family incomes, real consumption and real wealth have stalled over the past two decades. I believe that's because progress is not automatic. It doesn't just happen. For too long, government has stood as a roadblock to business and investment instead of a helpmate. There's no question that government should be there as a helpmate, to assist people and corporations and businesses to get along and create jobs in Ontario.

Governments have a regulatory responsibility, and that indeed is without question, but they also, as government, have a role to play in creating an environment that is welcoming to business. We went for a whole decade, from 1985 to 1995, and it was not "welcome to business" here in Ontario. I remember back in the late 1980s when they brought in the employer health tax. Small business just went berserk over that, having to keep the records for it.

The Liberals should be very ashamed for bringing that in, going below $400,000 of payroll and really putting a burden on small business, mom-and-pop operations that had to run another set of forms. Our government got rid of that, and it has certainly helped a tremendous number of small businesses here in Ontario.

We have a responsibility as government to create an environment that's welcoming to business-I got a little sidetracked there a moment ago-and also to provide the freedom to enter into any business without penalty or undue restrictions and to compete freely for customers. Without these freedoms, there is simply no incentive for people to take risks, to innovate, to invest and work long hours. Small business is based on working long hours. I hear the opposition screaming about a 60-hour workweek.

I'm sure an awful lot of people in small business would think they were on holiday if they had a chance to work a 60-hour workweek. The member for Guelph-Wellington used to be in small business, in the environmental business, and I'm sure she worked a lot more than 60 hours a week.

For those who believe in freedom as a basic human right, reducing unnecessary regulations and red tape is indeed essential. That's what this bill is all about, that's what this government is all about and, quite frankly, that's what democracy is all about.

Now I'm very pleased to let my seatmate complete the hour, the member for Guelph-Wellington.

Mrs Brenda Elliott (Guelph-Wellington): I would like to extend my thanks to my colleague, who actually was kind enough to take my place for a few moments and trade places in the speaking order, since I was involved in another meeting. He's a very thoughtful and considerate member and I appreciate it. Thanks so much.

I'm very pleased to add my voice in support of this particular bill. As my colleague mentioned, I come from a background of small business. I'm used to working very long hours. When I look at the red tape bills, I look at them from a point of view of customer service, because that's so essential in anything we do in business here in Ontario. That really means, when you're in business, that you must find ways to be responsive to those who are going to use your services, or you won't be in business for very long. It means looking for new and better ways of providing that service. In government, we can act no differently.

For too long here in Ontario we have allowed the practices of government to stagnate. The best practices of 15 or 20 years ago are no longer the best practices of today's business. Government tends to become very bureaucratic and that tendency must be overridden if you are going to find ways to provide effective and responsive customer service.

When the people of Ontario call the government, they are looking for help and for answers. They are not looking to be on hold, they are not appreciating bureaucratic runaround and they want action once the connection is made. For too long, government has ignored valuable lessons we could have learned from the private sector. While businesses around Ontario were re-evaluating, reassessing and reworking their customer relations, government stood idly by as its relations with customers, who are the real people, went from being out of date in some cases to being anachronistic.

That isn't surprising because in many cases it takes work to improve government relations and customer relations. It takes new laws to change and eliminate red tape. Changing law in this House requires three readings, opposition theatrics and naysaying that goes along with debate in this House. For some governments, all that work simply wasn't worth the trouble. But as my colleague mentioned, in two elections we've come to understand that the people of Ontario expect and deserve good government, respo