role="main" class="main-container container js-quickedit-main-content" id="main-content">

December 1, 2004

38th Parliament, 1st Session

< Previous sitting day

Next sitting day >

Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2004-Dec-01 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Wednesday 1 December 2004 Mercredi 1 er décembre 2004

WEARING OF RIBBONS

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

ONTARIO UNDERGRADUATE

STUDENT ALLIANCE

MCKELLAR PARK

ELK AND DEER FARMING

ONTARIO FILM AND

TELEVISION INDUSTRY

ONTARIO PRINCIPALS' DAY

ONTARIO FILM AND

TELEVISION INDUSTRY

ST JUDE CATHOLIC

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL

SPEED RIVER

FAMILY HEALTH NETWORK

PROJECT GENESIS

WEARING OF BUTTON

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

SOCIAL POLICY

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

FINANCE AND ECONOMIC AFFAIRS

WORLD AIDS DAY

PIERRE BERTON

ORAL QUESTIONS

OMA AGREEMENT

ONTARIO FILM AND

TELEVISION INDUSTRY

AIR QUALITY

ONTARIO FILM AND

TELEVISION INDUSTRY

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

GO TRANSIT

HERITAGE LEGISLATION

AUTISM SERVICES

DRIVE CLEAN

GREENBELT LEGISLATION

TFO

HYDRO GENERATION

PETITIONS

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

PET SCANNER

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

WORKERS' COMPENSATION

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

OPTOMETRISTS

HOSPITAL FUNDING

TUITION

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

OPTOMETRISTS

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

ORDERS OF THE DAY

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL

AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LE CONSEIL EXÉCUTIF

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

WEARING OF RIBBONS

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I seek unanimous consent, it being December 1

and World AIDS Day, that members have permission to wear the red ribbon in recognition of World AIDS Day today.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Do we have unanimous consent for the wearing of the ribbon? Agreed.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

ONTARIO UNDERGRADUATE

STUDENT ALLIANCE

Ms Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): I rise today to draw attention to the fact that the Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance has been

at Queen's Park for the past three days, meeting with MPPs from all three parties and sharing with them the recommendations they are making to the Rae review of post-secondary education.

On Monday, John Tory and I met with several of those representatives and heard first-hand about the issues they want Bob Rae to consider when he makes his

recommendations to the government. Several of them are in the gallery today; I would like to welcome Alison Forbes and Adam Spence.

Students bring a valuable perspective to the table, and theirs is a voice that needs to be heard, especially now, when significant changes are being

contemplated. These student representatives came here to deliver the message that well-funded, accessible higher education builds a bright future for all Ontarians.

Right now, Ontario ranks 10th in terms of per student funding in Canada. Average tuition in Ontario has increased by 139% since 1993, and the Ontario student

assistance program provides too little assistance to too few students and is overly bureaucratic.

The Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance, along with many of the other groups that have been attending the public meetings and making submissions to the Rae

review, believe there must be a substantial financial investment in post-secondary education. Students, both now and in the future, will be the most directly affected by the changes that will be

made, and they deserve to have their voices heard.

I would like to thank them once again for coming to Queen's Park and meeting with MPPs.

MCKELLAR PARK

Mr Richard Patten (Ottawa Centre): Rarely is attention called to our local residents who volunteer their time, their hard work and their

inspiration to improve our communities.

In my riding of Ottawa Centre, such a movement has been firmly rooted by the McKellar Park community build project. Two years ago, parents who live in the

west-end Ottawa neighbourhood near McKellar Park faced a deteriorating play structure for their children. Community residents rallied together to devise a plan of action to provide their children

with a safe and enjoyable play facility. Together with city of Ottawa staff, local residents undertook a fundraising initiative. Initially, local residents intended to raise enough money to build

one new toddler play structure. They have shown us, though, that their dreams have no limit. Today, children greet two new play facilities at McKellar Park, with a price tag of $95,000. The city

honoured this particular group as having raised the most money for a local grassroots community group. On October 24 of this year, they celebrated their efforts with an official recognition and

ribbon-cutting ceremony.

To all the local residents and volunteers, I thank you for reminding us of what a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can do in their community. In

particular, I would like to thank and to recognize the following individuals for their vision of the project and success in fundraising: Clare Grosskleg, Laurie Pytura, Patti Church, John Rapp,

Karen Blakely, Sandra Wong, LeeEllen Carroll, Janice Palmer and Wendy Henry -- all women. I salute and applaud these community leaders who were responsible for heralding the grand opening of the

new McKellar Park for their children.

ELK AND DEER FARMING

Mr Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): On November 1, the Ontario Deer and Elk Farmers' Association held a reception at Queen's Park to draw attention to

the problems in their industry and to ask the government for help. These farmers have a specific issue with the Environmental Bill of Rights regulation that considers deer and elk to be wildlife,

regardless of the fact that they are bred for genetic excellence, born in captivity and raised like any other livestock. Because of this wildlife designation and the EBR regulation, farmers will be

subjected to restrictions that will take away the only source of income they have right now.

Just as with beef, deer and elk farmers have been unable to move their animals across the border and have found it very difficult to compete with cheap foreign

venison. Many have only managed to keep their business by breeding trophy bulls for harvest preserves. With the new regulation, this will no longer be an option. The deer and elk association has

asked Minister Peters to move responsibility for farm-raised deer and elk from the Ministry of Natural Resources to that of agriculture and food. Farmers want this government to see that the

animals born and raised on farms and ranches should be treated like other farmed animals, not wildlife. They feel that if the government insists on expropriating their industry, it should at least

do an economic impact study to consider the negative financial consequences and to consider compensation.

At the reception, Minister Peters indicated to the association that his ministry would potentially play a role in dealing with their issues. That sounds to me

like a promise. While this government breaks promises, I ask that Minister Peters keep his personal word. I ask that he take the appropriate steps to assume responsibility for the cervid industry

and help these farmers, as he said he would.

ONTARIO FILM AND

TELEVISION INDUSTRY

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): I want to tell you about something significant that happened today. There were a couple of hundred people

outside demonstrating on behalf of the film industry and demonstrating against this government that isn't delivering on its promise. We had actors out there, producers, a lot of crew members and

many, many who depend on the film industry, coming to plead with you and urge you to keep your promise.

They all understood before the election that you were going to help them. They believed you then. Surely you must have meant to keep your promise, and that

promise was that you would increase tax credits from 20% to 35%, and further support for feature films from 20% to 40%. Sorbara, McGuinty -- everyone understood that promise.

After the government got elected and we posed a question in this House, the Minister of Finance said we can't involve ourselves in horse-trading; we can't do

what other jurisdictions are doing. A lot of provinces, and the US, are giving a whole lot of tax credits to keep their industry there, and my friend Greg Sorbara said, "We can't do it."

Mercifully, I think they're changing their position, but the film industry is saying, "We need your support today -- not three years from now before an election,

but today."

Deliver on that promise. That's what they expect.

ONTARIO PRINCIPALS' DAY

Mrs Linda Jeffrey (Brampton Centre): I rise today to recognize Ontario Principals' Day. The strength, dedication and enthusiasm of Ontario's

5,000 elementary and secondary principals and vice-principals have been a vital part of the success of Ontario schools.

Often, the work of our principals is overlooked or taken for granted. However, a principal can turn a struggling school into a thriving one. As well, every day,

principals across this province make a significant difference in the lives of our children. They are not only the disciplinarians whom we were afraid of as students; they are also counsellors,

administrators, mentors, education advocates and community builders. Principals are some of the most important leaders in our communities, and constantly demonstrate this leadership to our students

and teachers.

Every day, principals face unique issues and challenges. Improving student achievement, balancing the budget, completing administrative duties and spending time

with students, staff and parents all fall within their responsibilities. In a sense, principals are the administrators of our future. I would like to thank Ontario's principals for rising to the

challenge and working to help students and teachers in our schools succeed.

I'd also like to congratulate the Ontario Principals' Council on winning two awards of distinction from the Canadian Association of Communicators in Education

for the second year in a row.

Principals are the front-line administrators who are charged with the duty of restoring confidence in our school system, and they deserve our praise. I would

like to congratulate Ontario's principals on the great job that they do every day. We salute you.

ONTARIO FILM AND

TELEVISION INDUSTRY

Mrs Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): Today, over 1,000 creative and talented men and women of Ontario's film and related industries

rallied at Queen's Park to protest the McGuinty government's abandonment of Ontario's world-respected film industry. This rally comes on the heels of a press conference held this week by the

Ontario PC Party leader, John Tory.

Dalton McGuinty ran on a platform that promised to boost the Ontario film and television tax credit from 20% to 33%, to introduce a new feature film component of

the Ontario film and television tax credit and to increase this credit from 20% to 40% of eligible expenditures.

Now this government has broken two more promises. Rather, we have the finance minister standing up in the House and saying, "Ontario will not participate in the

unhealthy bidding war with upping and upping tax credits."

I would say to this government, the men and women of Ontario's film industry are the best in the world at what they do. They have brought this city and this

province jobs, investment and a sense of pride in our country. I urge the government to keep their commitment to the film industry. Do not break another promise; the jobs and livelihood of

thousands of people depend on it. Do not abandon Hollywood North.

ST JUDE CATHOLIC

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL

Mr Bill Mauro (Thunder Bay-Atikokan): I rise today to congratulate the Lakehead Catholic school board trustees, principal Margaret Hall, and the

students and faculty at St Jude Catholic Elementary School in Thunder Bay. A few weeks ago, when the EQAO results were announced, St Jude students had an astounding improvement over previous years'

results.

In reading, the number of St Jude grade 3 students at or above the provincial level was 82% this year, compared to last year's level, which was 32%, and the 2002

level at 46%. Students also dramatically improved in the math category: 76% of grade 6 students met or surpassed the provincial level, in contrast to 19% in 2003. The third category, writing, also

saw tremendous results for both grade 3 and grade 6: 79% of the grade 3 students were above the provincial level, and 63% of the grade 6 students.

If we look at the percentage of all grade 3 students at or above the provincial standard in 2003-04 in the last three categories, we can see how exceptionally

the St Jude students performed. The provincial averages in reading were 54%; in writing, 58%; and in math, 57%. The same can be said for grade 6. The provincial average was 58% for reading, 54% for

writing and 57% for math.

The incredible turnaround for St Jude led them to be one of three schools that were profiled in the EQAO case study. The case study noted that improvements in

scores demonstrate the importance of systematic leadership, the value of using assessment data and the results a school can achieve when the commitment is shared among school leaders, staff and

parents.

I add my congratulations to all those responsible for this incredible turnaround, including our own Ministry of Education.

SPEED RIVER

FAMILY HEALTH NETWORK

Mrs Liz Sandals (Guelph-Wellington): I was pleased yesterday to have the Minister of Health visit the Speed River Family Health Network in

Guelph. Speed River employs 20 doctors and serves 30,000 patients. They provide the sort of multidisciplinary, 24/7 team approach that we want.

Dr Blair Fraser reported that most of the doctors who work at Speed River supported the OMA deal. "It's an excellent agreement," Fraser said. In fact, Wellington

county doctors voted 51% in favour of the deal.

Here is what the Guelph Mercury had to say on this issue yesterday: "There is much to recommend the provincial proposal unveiled last Friday. It will make

Ontario family physicians the best paid in Canada, up from fourth spot, and specialists the second-highest paid, up from fifth place."

The Mercury went on to say: "People are fed up with problems in health care.... They want the problems resolved after years of bickering.... This newly tuned

deal addresses many of the complaints doctors voiced in rejecting the original text."

I agree with the Mercury editorial, and I applaud the Premier and the Minister of Health for their courage in moving forward and transforming our health care

system to give the people of Ontario the health care they want and deserve.

PROJECT GENESIS

Ms Caroline Di Cocco (Sarnia-Lambton): I'm pleased to rise in this Legislature and share with my colleagues that Suncor is investing a total of

$1 billion in Sarnia-Lambton.

Project Genesis is part of a new plan to build a new diesel desulphurization unit and also to modify other equipment to process more crude oil. This plant will

reduce the sulphur content in diesel fuel, along with a hydrogen project.

As we move forward into the 21st century, cleaner fuels are one way in which we will achieve a more sustainable development approach in our fuel consumption and,

in turn, this will help to keep our environment clean.

This $1-billion investment will be one of the biggest investments from one company in the Sarnia-Lambton area. It will provide many construction jobs and will be

of great benefit to my community.

As well, Suncor donated $500,000 toward the local hospital capital project. This large investment will be important to the future of Ontario. Sarnia-Lambton is

glad to have such a good corporate citizen in our community.

WEARING OF BUTTON

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): Mr Speaker, I ask for unanimous consent. I was at the film rally this morning, and I would ask permission

from the House to wear this button, "Keep Ontario cameras rolling. Keep your promises." Would that be agreed?

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is there unanimous consent? I heard a no.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

SOCIAL POLICY

Mr Khalil Ramal (London-Fanshawe): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on social policy and move its adoption. I'll send

it with page Daniel.

The Clerk-at-the-Table (Ms Lisa Freedman): Your committee begs to report the following bill as amended:

Bill 63,

An Act to amend the Employment Standards Act, 2000 with respect to hours of work and certain other matters / Projet de loi 63, Loi modifiant la Loi

de 2000 sur les normes d'emploi en ce qui concerne les heures de travail et d'autres questions.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Shall the report be received and adopted? Agreed.

The bill is therefore ordered for third reading.

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS

Mr Norman W. Sterling (Lanark-Carleton): I beg leave to present a report on Environet from the standing committee on public accounts and move

the adoption of its recommendations.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Does the member wish to make a statement?

Mr Sterling: So there will not be confusion, this relates to the auditor's report of November 2003. The public accounts committee met last

February to deal with those matters with regard to his 2003 annual report. Following the hearings and the committee's deliberations, unanimous reports were prepared by our committee; that is, all

members of all parties agreed to this report.

The auditor's objectives for the Ministry of the Environment's Environet strategy were to assess whether the ministry had adequate policies and procedures in

place to ensure the Environet systems adequately addressed existing legislative and regulatory requirements. In other words, were they putting into effect the legislation and regulations, and were

the technical systems that were being developed meeting the job?

The auditor concluded in his 2003 report that Environet did not provide ministry staff with the required information to ensure that drinking water meets

regulatory standards, that hazardous waste movements were properly controlled and that air emissions were properly monitored or reported. As a result, the committee prepared 14 recommendations to

the ministry to remedy this situation.

We look forward to the ministry's response to our recommendations and to hearing from them with regard to some of the questions asked in the report.

With that, I would like to move adjournment of the debate.

The Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

FINANCE AND ECONOMIC AFFAIRS

Mr Pat Hoy (Chatham-Kent Essex): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on finance and economic affairs and move its

adoption.

The Clerk-at-the-Table (Ms Lisa Freedman): Your committee begs to report the following bill as amended:

Bill 73,

An Act to enhance the safety of children and youth on Ontario's roads / Projet de loi 73, Loi visant à accroître la sécurité des

enfants et des jeunes sur les routes de l'Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Shall the report be received and adopted? Agreed.

The bill is therefore ordered for third reading.

WORLD AIDS DAY

Hon David Caplan (Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal): Mr Speaker, I believe we have unanimous consent for each party to speak for up

to five minutes to recognize World AIDS Day.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Do we have unanimous consent for each party to speak for up to five minutes on World AIDS Day? Agreed.

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I stand before the House to once again bring to the attention of honourable

members that this is World AIDS Day, a day of commemoration and awareness-raising that falls on December 1.

This year the World AIDS Campaign has chosen to focus on women, girls and HIV. In Canada, as in the rest of the world, increasingly the face of AIDS is a

female one. According to the United Nations, nearly half of all adults living with this disease worldwide are now women. In 2003, 29% of new HIV diagnoses in Ontario were women, up from 23% the

year before.

The reasons for this are biological and cultural. In many parts of the world, including here in Canada, women are too often economically and socially dependent

on men and have too little control over men's sexual behaviour. As UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan said at the world AIDS conference in Bangkok, "What is needed is real, positive change that will

give more power and confidence to women and girls. Change that will transform relations between women and men at all levels of society." He's right. Until the global community does all it can to

ensure that all women are treated equally and with dignity and respect, this dire trend will continue.

This is a time in which we reflect on the massive global tragedy that is AIDS. It is a tragedy that has hit this world hard and fast. It's hard to imagine that

less than a quarter-century ago, nobody had even heard of AIDS. Yet today AIDS is spreading rapidly around the world, infecting nearly 40 million people and threatening the future of families and

nations alike.

In 1981, front-line health providers in New York, San Francisco and Los Angeles began to notice clusters of rare disease outbreaks among men having sex with

men. The cause of these outbreaks was a new syndrome that would soon become known as AIDS. Sensing a threat to their continued existence, gay communities around the world, including right here in

Ontario, rallied to their defence. Gay people and their friends mobilized to educate communities, work with health providers, educate governments, and most importantly, help one another.

I was there; I saw it first-hand. I saw how people came together from every diverse corner of the community in response to this crisis. You could say that it

was in those dark moments that the gay community itself was born. This community effort spawned a new legion of organizations and agencies led, in large part, by gay men. These organizations are

now there in communities all across the province of Ontario, not just in places like Toronto but many other urban centres as well.

They are gifts borne out of sadness but also of hope, a hope that one day they will no longer be needed at all.

With today's drug combinations, fewer people are succumbing to HIV and AIDS. People are living with this disease like people live with many serious chronic

illnesses. When we lose people to HIV and AIDS, though, it is no less painful than the first deaths, and it reminds us that there is no cure and that prevention remains a significant challenge. The

resurgence of infections in Ontario, especially among women, aboriginals, people from endemic communities and men who have sex with men, compels us to keep talking about HIV and AIDS and to

actively resist complacency.

Thanks to trailblazers like June Callwood and Stephen Lewis, I can feel the surge of a new, community-based movement coming. Stephen Lewis is taking the

compassionate community spirit that has characterized the HIV/AIDS movement in Ontario to the world stage and is bringing a new consciousness into our living rooms.

In just the past few weeks in the greater Toronto area, an enormous number of events: the other day, Urban AIDS at the Ricoh Coliseum. On Sunday, I went to the

People to People organization with the Ethiopian community, a few weeks ago to the Ontario Hospital Association AIDS Africa Gala, and to the launch of the Ontario Hospital Association-Registered

Nurses Association of Ontario project in Lesotho. Tomorrow night I have the opportunity to participate in a fundraising event in York region, co-chaired by Marianna Beer, wife of Charles Beer, that

will raise $100,000 for the Stephen Lewis Foundation.

We've lost more than 7,000 Ontarians to AIDS since 1981. Today 24,000 Ontarians live with HIV. They're our lovers and our friends, our sisters and our

brothers, our sons and our daughters. We admire their courage and dignity very much.

In the face of the reality of HIV, sometimes it's hard to muster hope. We have much to be proud of in Ontario for what we've done in the fight against HIV and

AIDS, but we have more to do.

This past summer I had the opportunity to attend the International AIDS Conference in Thailand. I was struck by the sheer determination of everyone there to

combat this global challenge.

Here in the province of Ontario this year, we've increased funding to AIDS service organizations by 7%, and worked actively with OACHA, the Ontario Advisory

Committee on HIV/AIDS, to help make sure we're ordering our priorities properly. We worked to fix a challenge with the Trillium drug benefit program. We're working to expand the benefits of

anonymous testing.

One of our government's most recent initiatives that I'm most proud of is that the agreement we negotiated with the Ontario Medical Association had, as part of

it, introducing the alternative funding program for general practitioners dealing with HIV and AIDS.

Between now and 2006, when Toronto hosts the world AIDS conference, the Ontario AIDS community will work to showcase what we have done collectively locally. I

believe that as Canadians, we are at our best when our values are applied globally, when we recognize the power we have to change the world. Powerful evidence abounds that Canadians are lining up

right now to do just that -- helping to change the world.

Mr John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): I'm pleased to rise on behalf of the official opposition to mark World AIDS Day. Today we mark World AIDS

Day with 15 minutes of speeches in this place. The latest estimates suggest that during those 15 minutes that we speak today, 145 people will become infected with HIV. Look around you. Look around

this chamber. Every 15 minutes, an equal number of people to everyone in this room -- MPPs, officials, political staff and those in the public galleries -- will be infected. That's five million

people every year.

"There is something new and ominous in the course of this epidemic," Peter Piot, the head of the United Nations AIDS program, said last week. It is much more

than the ominous infection rates, however. It's the stigma, the marginalization, the prejudice, the discrimination and the fear that has come to exist in all parts of the world.

It is much more than the statistics, though. Each person who is infected and later contracts AIDS has a face and needs our unconditional love and support. It

no longer is a disease primarily targeting or affecting gay men and intravenous drug users. It affects people around the world, from all walks of life: men, women and children.

The situation in Africa is indeed, and continues to become, a pandemic. In some countries, almost one third of people in the entire country are infected. Those

numbers are almost incomprehensible, but the good news is that around the world we are beginning to make headway. Spending on HIV/AIDS has tripled around the world in recent years. Research

continues to be promising. But before that day arrives, public education is not just important, but it is absolutely essential.

Canada can be proud of its record in fighting this disease around the world, but for those of us in this place, here in Ontario, we have an important

responsibility to provide the health and social supports that are essential to those who are living with HIV/AIDS.

Today I want to pay special tribute to one organization in Ottawa which supports people living with AIDS. Bruce House was founded in 1988 by a group of

concerned citizens, on the premise that everyone has the right to live and die with dignity. Their goal is to help each and every one of their residents to live the best quality of life. They are

blessed with a caring team of staff, a dedicated group of volunteers and, most importantly, a supportive community. Our province is a much better place due to their efforts and the efforts of

countless volunteers, professionals and organizations around Ontario.

Today, let us recommit ourselves to prevention, to public education, to research, to treatment and to compassion, not just here in Ontario but indeed right

around the world.

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I rise today on behalf of the NDP caucus, not with any pleasure, but to acknowledge the grim reality that

HIV/AIDS has reached epidemic proportions. We need to make sure we are responding effectively, appropriately and in a timely fashion to this virus.

UN AIDS, the United Nations agency that is in charge of combating this spread of AIDS, reports that there are 42 million HIV-positive people worldwide. There

will be five million new infections around the world this year, and 800,000 of them will be children. Some 3.1 million people will die.

HIV is one of the biggest social, economic and health challenges facing the world. It is a global emergency, claiming over 8,000 lives every day. In fact, five

people die of AIDS every minute.

This is the 17th World AIDS Day. The first international health day was the result of a summit of health leaders who met in London in January 1988. They

realized that a united global effort was required to halt the spread of HIV/AIDS. The aim of World AIDS Day is to educate people about the worldwide challenges and consequences of the epidemic in

order to push for change. World AIDS Day is now an annual event in most countries. On December 1, efforts to combat AIDS are observed, and support is given to the continuing fight against this

virus.

The international theme for this year's World AIDS Day is Women, Girls, HIV and AIDS. The number of women living with HIV/AIDS worldwide has rapidly increased,

and women now account for nearly half of all people living with HIV. In sub-Saharan Africa, 65% of people living with HIV are women, and among young people, it is 75%. The World AIDS Campaign 2004

seeks to address the way women's inequality helps fuel the transmission of HIV and increases the impact of AIDS. The campaign's slogan, "Have you heard me today?" calls for immediate action against

the inequalities that put not only women and girls at risk but whole communities as well.

Depression, poverty, violence, and injection drug use are contributing factors to HIV infection among women. Women and girls in developing countries in

particular are more susceptible to HIV/AIDS due to a lack of knowledge about the disease, a lack of access to prevention services and the inability to negotiate safer sex practices. Barriers to

employment and education, and sexual violence also make girls and women more vulnerable to HIV/AIDS. In addition, all over the world, women are expected to take the lead in domestic work and

provide care to family members. HIV and AIDS have significantly increased the burden of care for many women. AIDS intensifies the feminization of poverty, particularly in hard-hit countries, and

disempowers women. Entire families are also affected, as vulnerability increases when women's time caring for the sick is taken away from other productive tasks in the household.

In Canada, the number of new infections points to disturbing trends. At the end of 2002, Health Canada estimated that 56,000 Canadians were living with HIV

infection. Furthermore, the number of women testing positive continues to rise. In 2003, 29% of new HIV diagnoses in Ontario were women, up from 23% the previous year. At the same time, an

increasing number of Canadians living with AIDS are women: up from 6.1% before 1994, to 16.5% in 2002. Worldwide, eight million women now have AIDS. It is estimated that in a few years, 13 million

women will be infected and four million women will have died from AIDS.

Clearly, HIV and AIDS must concern us all. This is a world in which no society and no group within society can remain immune to AIDS as this epidemic grows.

World AIDS Day reminds us that we need to respond appropriately, effectively and aggressively to HIV/AIDS every day.

PIERRE BERTON

Hon David Caplan (Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal): Speaker, I believe that we have unanimous consent for each party to speak for up

to two minutes to pay tribute to a great Canadian, Pierre Berton, who passed away yesterday.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Do we have unanimous consent for the two minutes? Yes.

Hon Greg Sorbara (Minister of Finance): I'm honoured to pay tribute to one of Canada's truly great citizens. Yesterday, Pierre Berton boarded

his last train, leaving behind, to his country and to his family, an unparalleled legacy as a journalist, historian and social commentator of profound insight, and he was a beloved husband, father

and grandfather.

Pierre Berton was a storyteller; indeed, I think that he was our best-loved chronicler. He brought history to life in this country like no one else has in our

history, and he was an unapologetic social critic. I think that he taught an entire generation of us to speak our minds plainly and eloquently. He gave Canadians a sense of pride in our past, and

in doing so, he gave us a new voice and a new vocabulary to imagine our future.

His bibliography lists 77 published works. They are as diverse as any in Canada, but that's just part of the story. Many of us remember him as a journalist and

columnist with the Toronto Daily Star, as an editor of Maclean's magazine. I remember his daily radio commentaries back in the 1960s with Charles Templeton. And who among us -- over 30, at least --

does not remember being a regular viewer of that quintessentially Canadian program Front Page Challenge?

Despite his suggestions -- and you saw it in the paper this morning, the quote saying, "I'm not a historian; I'm a journalist" -- he was a historian. He was

one of our most popular historians, and he was a master at his craft. He wrote his stories in a way that transformed history from the private pursuit of academics to the popular pastime for all of

us. I believe his biographers will pay special attention to The National Dream and The Last Spike. Those were seminal works that described Canada in its infant years.

I believe the biographers will talk about Vimy, where Pierre Berton captured the voices of men at the frontiers of war. In particular, I believe the

biographers will talk about Klondike and those other great books about Canada's north. Indeed, Pierre Berton gave us a truly new consciousness of the magnificence and the majesty of Canada's

north.

In the end, he was a writer who was a master at his profession and who was also committed to the profession. He helped create the Writers' Union of Canada and

the Writers Guild of Canada, and he gave thousands and thousands of hours of counselling, mentoring and cajoling to young writers.

As a person who represented him as a constituent, I can also tell you that he was a simple man, truly devoted to his community. Canadians and people all across

the world will miss him, but the works that he has left us will fill us for decades and decades to come.

Mrs Julia Munro (York North): In the last few weeks, some Canadians have been avidly watching their televisions, waiting to see who would be

voted the greatest Canadian, yet there are some Canadians we know in our hearts are great without any vote needed. Yesterday, we lost such a Canadian.

Pierre Berton was an author, a journalist, a broadcaster and a patriot. Born in the Yukon, he served in the Canadian army in World War II. He worked as a

journalist or an editor for the Vancouver News-Herald, the Vancouver Sun, Macleans and the Toronto Star. He hosted the Pierre Berton Show and was a commentator and panellist on Front Page

Challenge, among other programs.

The awards he has received are almost too numerous to mention. Among many awards, he has received the Governor General's award for creative non-fiction on

several occasions. He received awards for columnist of the year, film of the year and a Grand Prix at Cannes for his film City of Gold in 1959.

Pierre Berton was a Companion of the Order of Canada and was awarded numerous honorary degrees. He served as chancellor of Yukon College, chair of the Heritage

Canada Foundation, chair of the Canadian Civil Liberties Association, editor-in-chief of the Canadian Centennial Library and as a member of the board of the book publisher McClelland and

Stewart.

Pierre Berton's books are his lasting legacy and it is impossible to imagine what the study of Canadian history would be without them. His love for Canada and

its people is written on every page of every book he wrote. More than any other writer in our history, he chose to spend his life telling the stories of Canada to Canadians.

Who can forget reading in The National Dream and The Last Spike of how a nation of only a few million bound itself together by building a railway from sea to

sea? His book Vimy tells of the great battle of World War I, where, at some unknown point during the fighting and carnage, our country moved from being a colony to a nation. The Invasion of Canada

and Flames Across the Border illustrate the battles of the War of 1812. The Promised Land tells of the settling of the west, and Winter, while not overtly historical, speaks to Berton's theme of

telling us what it means to be a Canadian.

Pierre Berton was a great Canadian. As a writer and broadcaster, he showed his love for our country in everything he did. He was really a teacher, teaching

Canadians about ourselves, challenging us to learn our history and heritage, and to pass it on to our children. He will be missed by a whole country.

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): Canada has lost a great Canadian. As has been noted, Pierre Berton was an incredible author,

columnist, broadcaster, radio personality, television personality, but perhaps most of all, he was an iconoclast who admitted that he broke most of the rules. For example, when he wrote his first

book, entitled The Royal Family, he admitted that he wrote it because he had seven kids and he couldn't make enough money as a journalist. So he had to find another way to pay the rent.

His history has actually drawn some criticism from the more academic authors, but anyone who reads his history knows that it brings Canadian history alive. His

history, for example, of the battle of Vimy Ridge, I think, really tells what Canadian soldiers were like. He said:

about them. At the Valcartier camp, when the same movie was shown once too often, they had gone crazy, torn down the YMCA tent and set it afire. Now, in the old country, they refused to conform to

the rigid class lines that divided privates, non-commissioned officers and officers into watertight social compartments -- as in the railway coaches and in the pubs, with their segregated bars....

The British tommies saluted every officer they saw, even across a broad roadway; the Canadians saluted only when they felt like it."

He was an iconoclast, but most of all, as an iconoclast, he dedicated his writing to telling the world what Canadians were all about. So while we may have lost

him, I think his writing will have an enduring value for all Canadians.

ORAL QUESTIONS

OMA AGREEMENT

Mr Robert W. Runciman (Leader of the Opposition): I have a question for the Premier. Premier, earlier this afternoon, our leader, John Tory,

released a copy of the taxpayer-paid partisan political poll you used to manipulate public opinion against Ontario's doctors. This poll was done a week before the doctors finished voting on your

failed offer, and it's clear affirmation of your government's deceptive and double-dealing approach to negotiations with doctors.

This morning, your Minister of Health said your government wants to work with doctors on a successful deal. You've said much the same as recently as two days

ago, and we now know these statements were false. Premier --

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order.

Hon David Caplan (Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal): Mr Speaker, the language is purely unparliamentary and should be withdrawn. The

member should be called to order for doing that.

The Speaker: Order. In regard to the language, I will judge it accordingly. I would ask the member to continue. When there is any such

unparliamentary language, I will then call the members to order.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. As I said again, I will call those orders. Thank you very much. The leader of the official opposition.

Mr Runciman: Premier, what this poll shows is that you had no intention of negotiating in good faith. It shows that, all along, you planned to

shove your failed deal down the doctors' throats. How can you justify your manipulative, cynical approach to dealing with doctors?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): Something that the honourable member chooses to overlook is that we

devoted an entire nine months to negotiations with Ontario doctors, 120 meetings at the main negotiating table. Beyond that, there were four side tables at which 44 separate meetings were also

held. We devoted ourselves to a very comprehensive negotiating process, which culminated in an agreement that was unanimously endorsed by all those involved in this process.

The member opposite simply does not have any ground on which to stand when he claims that somehow we have abused the process. We respected the process, and

then some. What we're determined to do now, on the basis of that process, is to keep moving.

Mr Runciman: They designed this in terms of failure. They couldn't take another day, another two days, another three days to try and find a

resolution with the doctors.

Premier, in the polling industry, your partisan poll is known as a message test. It's meant to drive public opinion in one specific direction, in this case

toward support for your failed offer to doctors. The poll was an extensive sample. In fact, this was an election-style poll meant to sway public opinion instead of sampling it.

That's the problem. This is not an election campaign. We're talking about people's lives and their ability to find a doctor when they need one. You're more

interested in engaging in a full-on war -- your minister is always engaging in wars; a partisan war with doctors now -- and this poll is your road map for doing just that.

This is a shameful and tawdry example of politics and cynical in the extreme. How can you possibly justify manipulating public opinion against our doctors? How

can you justify that?

Hon Mr McGuinty: The people of Ontario waited over eight years for that government to move forward on primary care reform. We then negotiated

for nine long months, in good faith, and came up with an agreement which was unanimously endorsed by ourselves and the representatives of the OMA. So we are not going to wait one day longer. There

are 12 million people who have charged us with the responsibility to keep moving and to improve the quality of their health care while treating our doctors fairly.

We're proud to say that Ontario's doctors, as a result of this plan, will be the best paid in the country when it comes to family medicine. They'll be the

second-best paid in the country when it comes to a specialty.

We are proud of this agreement and we look forward, again, to moving forward on behalf of the people of Ontario.

Mr Runciman: The Premier is not going to deal with his shameful tactics with respect to this poll. This poll is a damning indictment of the

Premier and his government.

Page 30 proves the point. After being pushed into thinking this deal might have some merit, respondents then said that they have no trust in you or your

government's ability to deliver the deal and manage our health care system; 71% of respondents said that. They don't trust you. They have no confidence in you.

The Dalton McGuinty brand is damaged goods. People can't believe anything you say. We now know that what you say is what the pollsters tell you to say. No

conviction, no beliefs; just do what the polls tell you to do.

Premier, you owe the people of Ontario an explanation about why you spent tax dollars on secret polls to manipulate public opinion about your failed offer to

doctors.

Hon Mr McGuinty: I'm not sure I've ever heard more inconsistencies within the confines of a single statement. First, the member opposite says

that we are governing according to polls, and he cites a poll which he claims doesn't support the direction we're pursuing. Secondly, he says that this is a secret poll. He's got a copy of the poll

because we made it public.

Let me tell you something else. There used to be a practice in this Legislature where governments tabled their public opinion research: Bill Davis did it;

David Peterson did it; Bob Rae did it; and then Mike Harris stopped it. We have resumed that practice. We make the results of our polling public. We table it. In fact, when it comes to the results

of our polling taken pre-budget, you can actually find those today, on-line.

We are proud of the research we've had done. We've made that available to the public. We are proud of the plan that we put together with Ontario's doctors. But

more importantly, we are proud of the progress we are about to make on behalf of Ontario patients.

The Speaker: New question.

Mr John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): My question is to the Premier. Here are the kinds of words physicians across Ontario are using to describe

your public relations activities. Some call them cynical, some call them manipulative and others have said it is nothing more than conniving maneuvering. Premier, I want to know from you, how much

money did you spend that could have gone to health care on this cynical effort to malign our physicians? Would you stand in your place and tell us how much money?

Hon Mr McGuinty: I can tell you that the Tories, when in government, spent over $14 million on polling. I will tell you this: We will never

achieve that number.

I can tell you something else, and this is what this is really all about. Let's understand the Conservative Party's track record with respect to medicare. That

is the party that opposed our provincial legislation, passed last year, to entrench our commitment to medicare, including the banning of two-tiered billing. That is the party that fought tooth and

nail against the Liberal government's initiative to ban extra-billing in Ontario. That is the party that formed the government which was the second last in all of Canada to embrace medicare. That

will give you some notion of their antecedents and their lack of commitment to medicare.

This is a party which is committed to moving forward and to making progress when it comes to the next step in the evolution of medicare. We're committed to

doing that on behalf of Ontarians, on behalf of our patients and in partnership with our doctors. That's where we're going.

Mr Baird: I say to the Premier, you may be interested in knowing that polls of this type typically cost in excess of $100,000. There are 64

hospitals around this province that are today, as we speak, having to lay off nurses, and there are two nurses who will be laid off to pay for your cynical attempt to manipulate public opinion. At

the same time as you are trotting around Ontario telling people that there is no more money for doctors, telling people that there is no more money for hospitals, at the same time as you're

delisting chiropractors, physiotherapy and optometry services, why would you spend considerable sums of public money to support your cynical attempt to malign our physicians, and why did you leak

this poll before your cheap trick last Friday?

Hon Mr McGuinty: Well, this is all interesting coming from a representative of a former government that paid $300,000 annually to one of their

spin doctors -- just to remind them about that, Speaker.

I have bad news for members of the opposition. Support for our plan for health care is building. Today we heard from the Ontario Long Term Care Association.

Karen Sullivan, president of the association, "noted that access to physician services for long-term-care residents has been a growing concern for homes throughout the province for the past

three-four years, particularly as residents are older, frailer and have more complex medical conditions than ever before.

"`We have taken every opportunity,'" she says, "`to raise this issue with government, the OMA and the Ontario Long Term Care Physicians association and we are

encouraged that the proposed agreement with the OMA speaks directly to this.'"

What we have done is we have taken $10 million through this plan. We've invested in special on-call after-hours coverage and a monthly management fee to

support residents right in their nursing homes. People throughout the province, as they gain a better understanding of what we're trying to do on their behalf, are saying, "We want a part of that.

We want to join that. We want to improve the quality of health care in our province."

The Speaker: Before I get to your final supplementary, let me just caution you about some of the bordering unparliamentary language that has

been happening. Just be more careful about your language.

Mr Baird: I say to the Premier, you have the largest office of any Premier in the history of Ontario: 54 staff. You would think that one of

those 54 could write you an answer when you come into this place to debate the public issues.

The people of Ontario just can't be fooled; 71% of them in your own poll said they don't trust your government enough to run the deal and deliver the benefits

the government says it will deliver. Not only do Ontario patients and taxpayers not trust you; Ontario physicians don't trust you either.

Premier, I'd like you to stand in your place and tell us: What is the net cost to taxpayers in Ontario of this agreement that you're so proud of? Will you

stand in your place and give that, or are you afraid to?

Hon Mr McGuinty: That information has been public for a long time now. In 2007-08, it will cost us $1.077 billion. But you'll notice, Speaker

Mr Baird: But you moved all the money up. If you move it all up under a four-year --

Hon Mr McGuinty: Listen, we are delighted to give you a briefing to explain the agreement.

Hon Greg Sorbara (Minister of Finance): He doesn't want a briefing.

Hon Mr McGuinty: You will notice, Speaker, that the members opposite shrink away from the substance of the agreement. We are proud of this

agreement. They don't stand up and say -- or maybe they do. Maybe they're saying that $1.077 billion and making our Ontario doctors first in Canada when it comes to compensation is not enough. If

they're telling us to put more money in, then they should tell us that, because a few weeks ago they told us it was too much.

You will notice that they do not speak about the substance of the deal. We will continue to speak about the substance of this plan. We will talk about the fact

that it's bringing more doctors into underserviced communities. It's going to encourage doctors to practise more preventive medicine. It's going to encourage doctors to spend more time with

seniors. It's going to encourage doctors to spend more time with home care and nursing home patients. It's going to encourage doctors to stay in Ontario, to work with us and to improve the quality

of care for all Ontarians.

ONTARIO FILM AND

TELEVISION INDUSTRY

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. This morning, thousands of workers in the film and television

production industry came to Queen's Park to protest your failure to increase the television and film production tax credit. You may prefer not to remember this, but 15 months ago you promised to

increase the tax credit on domestic film and television production from 20% to 33% for labour costs, and for feature films you promised to increase the tax credit from 20% to 40%. But once again

you've failed to fulfill your promises. Premier, will you immediately increase the film and television production tax credit, or is this just a game -- another McGuinty broken promise?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): I'm proud of that commitment. We look forward to honouring that

commitment. I'm not going to honour it today, if that's what the member opposite is asking me, but I will remind the Ontario film industry that there is not a single, even passing, reference found

to that industry and its importance to our province in the NDP platform -- just so we're clear as to who stood up for the industry.

We understand the importance of that industry and we look forward to working with them to create a more competitive environment for them.

Mr Hampton: Premier, these are your promises; remember? You're the one who made the promises. You may not understand the urgency of this

situation, but across Ontario 50,000 jobs depend on this industry, and today those 50,000 workers are worried that they may lose their jobs because of your failure to keep your promise. You

promised Ontario film and television production workers and the industry that you would implement specific actions to sustain their jobs, but just a few weeks ago your finance minister said,

"Ontario will not participate in the unhealthy bidding war with upping and upping tax credits." Premier, when did your promise to the film and television production industry become unhealthy

bidding?

Hon Mr McGuinty: The only urgency the leader of the NDP is sensing is an urgency to jump on a perceived bandwagon with respect to this

particular issue. We were there from the outset. We were there before it became politically fashionable. We worked with the industry, developed a good understanding of the nature of the challenges

that we've got to grapple with, and understood the nature of the competitiveness of this North American market.

One of the first things that we did as the government, and I'm sure the members opposite will be interested in hearing this, was to establish a permanent

office in Los Angeles -- by the way, in partnership with the film industry -- so that we can better market this province, and this community in particular, as a destination when it comes to film

production.

We have a strong and abiding partnership with the film industry. We look forward to working with them, and we look forward to honouring our commitment.

Mr Hampton: Well, Premier, you talk about bandwagons. The only bandwagon around here is the bandwagon of your broken promises. They just go on

forever.

These are 50,000 families, families to whom you promised only 15 months ago that you were going to implement tax credits to ensure that this industry was

sustained and continued to grow. And now, all of a sudden, you don't want to hear about your promises.

This is what is happening elsewhere: The US Congress has introduced new tax credits for production crews. California has done the same. Manitoba has a film and

television tax credit of 35%.

You promised very specifically that you were going to increase these tax credits to ensure that Ontario jobs, Ontario workers, were not disadvantaged. It is

about your promise, Premier. Are you going to fulfill your promise, or is this just another McGuinty broken promise?

Hon Mr McGuinty: I regret to inform the member opposite that we will be keeping this promise, and we look forward to doing that.

I know the member is not interested in any good news, but there is some good news. The Ontario Media Development Corp, which opened this new marketing office

in Los Angeles, reports that, after we took office, it has already attracted 15 major productions worth almost $105 million to Ontario.

Let me say that our government understands the nature of the challenges facing our film industry, and we understood that quite some time ago. That's why we

incorporated it in our platform. That's why we intend to continue to work with the industry to ensure that we have a competitive environment here, to ensure that we have an enhanced tax credit

system, to ensure that we'll have a thriving film industry long into the future. We look forward to working with the industry.

AIR QUALITY

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): To the Premier, I guess all of those people out there, according to the Premier, are just

misinformed.

I want to ask you about another promise you made, another statement you made. You said, "Our most vulnerable citizens -- seniors and children -- should be able

to go outside in the summer without consulting a smog index." We found out yesterday that it's no good to them anyway. The Provincial Auditor tells us that under your government, the air quality

index doesn't even work. The tool that is supposed to tell us when we're having a smog day is so outdated and inaccurate that no one in Ontario really knows the truth any more about our air

quality.

Some 92% of pollution-related deaths and hospitalizations occur on days when you say the air quality is good or very good. Premier, is this what you meant when

you said that people shouldn't be consulting the smog index?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): To the Minister of the Environment.

Hon Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of the Environment): I find it very interesting that the leader of the third party is giving us a lecture on

our plan for air quality, when he has very clearly indicated to the people of Ontario that keeping coal-fired generation in the province is part of his plan. I say, shame on you. That has a very

negative impact on air quality in the province of Ontario.

I'm happy to say that our government is working with the federal government to improve air quality standards and to consider the health effects and identify

those contaminants that have a negative impact on the health of the people of the province. Our government believes that we need to work with the federal government to build that body of evidence

and move forward with our plan for cleaner air, which, by the way, is consistent with our plan to replace coal-fired generation in Ontario.

Mr Hampton: For the record, you should just admit you're not going to keep the promise, and you should admit it now rather than trying to fool

people once again. The coal-fired plants aren't closed now, and they're not going to close any time soon.

But I want to ask you again about the original question. The Ontario Medical Association says the annual cost of air pollution in Ontario is $10 billion, but

your own budget says you're going to cut a further 12% from the Ministry of the Environment's budget. One of the programs on the chopping block is the smog patrol, which monitors pollution on

highways and roads throughout the province. The McGuinty government says that you're going to do a wonderful job on preventing smog, but then we read the fine print -- you're going to eliminate the

smog patrol.

The Provincial Auditor slammed your record. He said the smog patrol should improve inspection targets and follow up on violations. I guess improving it means

the McGuinty government's going to cut it. Is that what it means, Minister?

Hon Mrs Dombrowsky: The member opposite is in denial: Denial number one, that coal-fired generation has a very negative impact on air quality;

and two, that our government has the strength and fortitude to press forward and replace that coal generation with clean, renewable, safe energy for the people of Ontario.

I want to tell the honourable member what we are doing. Last spring, we announced a five-point plan for cleaner air. We are going to cap NO x and

SO x emissions. We are going to add 29 contaminants to the list of contaminants that we check for when air quality is monitored. We are going to improve the air dispersion modelling

that's in place right now. Right now, that technology is 30 years old, and we're going to bring that up to date. We are also going to take a science-based approach to ensuring that our focus, our

energy and our resources are going to ensure that the testing -- smog patrol, for example -- will test heavy-duty vehicles, not light-duty, where the majority of nasty emissions come from.

Mr Hampton: This is about cutting the budget of the Ministry of the Environment by a further 12%. This is about cutting the very people who

work on smog patrol the day after the Provincial Auditor says that you're doing a lousy job. You try to cover it up by calling it "realignment," but when you read the notes, it's very clear. This

isn't a realignment; you're cutting 12 of the people who are out there doing smog patrol.

I say this to the minister and the Premier: Since when did reducing smog, since when did improving air quality, mean you lay off the very people who are out

there doing the smog patrol?

Hon Mrs Dombrowsky: As usual, the honourable member is only presenting part of the information. He's not telling the members of this House

that our smog patrol initiative is going to focus on the heavy-duty polluting vehicles like big rigs, dump trucks, buses, commercial vehicles, taxi fleets and used cars. Those are going to be the

vehicles that we focus our resources on.

I also want to remind the House that our government has committed to directing two cents of our gas tax to support those municipalities that will invest in

transit. That's going to get more vehicles off the road. Last week, we announced an ethanol initiative. Our ethanol initiative in the year 2007 will be the equivalent of removing 200,000 vehicles

off the roads in Ontario. That's our commitment to clean air in the province, and I'm proud of the record we have.

ONTARIO FILM AND

TELEVISION INDUSTRY

Mr Jim Flaherty (Whitby-Ajax): My question is for the Premier. The Ontario film and television tax credit was introduced in the 1996 budget by

the Progressive Conservative government at the time and enhanced from time to time after that in subsequent budgets. It was based on the realization, because of the work of Richard Florida, Roger

Martin and others, that Toronto and Ontario had a marvellous opportunity to support an industry which could grow amazingly here, which it has. That path continued through the late 1990s and at the

beginning of this century and recently, last year and this year, has suffered substantial decline.

You promised on page 13 of the Liberal election platform, "We will boost the Ontario film and television tax credit from 20% to 33%." As you know, the decline

is happening. The competition is there, not only in other parts of Canada but in Louisiana and other places in the United States. Will you now take the necessary steps to bring the tax credit up to

date, as you promised you would do?

Hon Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): I want to inform the members of this House and the public at large that

there is not a single passing reference to the need to enhance the Ontario film tax credit in the Tory platform. This whole notion of finding religion is apparently contagious. We were there from

the outset. We understand the nature of the industry, its complexities and the challenges it is facing at present. That's exactly why we incorporated that commitment in our platform and that's

exactly why we will deliver on that.

Mr Flaherty: It's interesting that the Premier wants to blame the opposition for his promises. No one made you do it. No one made you say

that; nobody made you put that on page 13 of your platform. You based it on information you had --

Interjection.

Mr Flaherty: No, the Tories actually brought in the tax credit, Minister of Tourism. That's who brought it in. You've been here so long that

you probably even remember that.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order. The Minister of Tourism and the member for Whitby-Ajax seem to want to have a discussion. That's

better done outside. If you want to direct --

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. I'm asking the member for Whitby-Ajax to direct his questions through this Chair. Proceed.

Mr Flaherty: Thank you, Speaker. The promise was made by the now Premier: "We will boost the Ontario film and television tax credit from 20%

to 33%." The auditor reports yesterday that the government has no information about the impact of the tax credit. Not only that, but the government agency involved and two ministries -- culture and

finance -- can't even decide what to measure. That's what the auditor tells us.

So I say to the Premier, you have no new information, according to the auditor. What you have is a promise you made last year that you would take this action.

The hundreds and hundreds of people who were here this morning in the rain, many of whom are in service industries supporting the film industry, want some action, and they want it now, not three

years from now. What's the timetable for increasing the credit?

Hon Mr McGuinty: Apparently, the member opposite is now a man of the people and he's very concerned about their daily challenges in life.

The reason we included this commitment in our platform is because we understand how important this industry is to this province, to the community of Toronto

and the greater Toronto area in particular. We understand how many people are employed in that industry, how many families count on that income. That's exactly why we incorporated that commitment

in our platform.

I'm not sure about the inconsistency put forward by the member. He says we don't have any data that supports the very existence of the tax credit itself. On

the other hand, he's saying that notwithstanding that, we should proceed with its enhancement. We, unlike the members opposite, have been committed to this from the outset. That's why we put it in

our platform and that's why we'll deliver on that.

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): My question is for the Minister of Community and Social Services. In September, you announced the closure

of the three remaining regional centres that house some of this province's most vulnerable people. These are people who call those centres their home. These are people who have lived in those

centres, most of them, all of their lives. These individuals have severe developmental, medical and psychological conditions. They need and deserve constant and extraordinary care, care that is not

available in almost every community living program.

Madam Minister, I'm asking you to talk to the families. I'm asking you if the change that you are advocating can be tolerated by their families. I'm asking you

if you have any plans -- because we have not seen any and we do not believe there are any -- to manage the change. They demand to know where their children will be sent, and you have not provided

answers. My question is simple: Why are you proceeding with the closures when you have no budgeted funds, no buildings to accommodate these poor individuals, and no plans to care for them?

Hon Sandra Pupatello (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for women's issues): I very much appreciate the

question. The members of your own caucus will know the history of these three remaining institutions across Ontario. All members of this House were here in the beginning, in 1987, when the decision

was made to close institutions in Ontario. What happened in the last five years was that about 1,000 people moved from the institutions into the community. What we're doing is maintaining that same

flow from institutions into the community, no more, no less. The difference is that we're down to the last 1,000 people in these institutions. I have had an opportunity to meet with people in

institutions, to speak with the staff there. I am planning to do much more in informing parents.

The difficulty is that we had to announce the closure and set the date so we can go about the plan, which is a five-year plan. We were not prepared to be

clandestine about going behind people's backs to plan a closure and not have them be a part of this plan. Now that we've made the announcement, that is exactly what we're engaging in: development

of that plan.

Mr Prue: It appears that the plan is, as you say, ongoing, but it has not been made. Everyone agrees that community living is ideal for those

individuals who can handle it. I commend what has happened in the last 10 years for the majority of the individuals involved. But what has happened now is that we have 1,000 individuals who have

severe problems. You haven't taken the time to date to talk to the families or to the caregivers who look after these regional centre residents. You have dictated to them that the families have

five years to find alternatives, yet there is a seven-year waiting list for group home placement into the other facilities. How can they make plans when in five years there won't even be a space

for their children?

Minister, I'm asking you to visit those centres, all three of them. I am asking you to meet with the families and with the caregivers. I'm asking you -- and I

know it's busy, so I'm asking to you do it when the House is in recess -- will you agree to meet with these families in the period between December and February? Will you come to the Huronia

Centre, which is having a meeting on January 8? Will you stop your ill-conceived plans, work with the staff and families and invest in a system that has proven over the years that it works?

Hon Ms Pupatello: Actually, on the discussions I've had with the organizations of parents that represent people: We spoke with them, I spoke

to them individually, before we made our announcement so that they wouldn't hear about it on the news. They heard it directly from me. We told them then that we will be on-site, that we will bring

parents with us whose children were also in institutions and moved into the community. We are bringing parents with us who were extremely angry, frustrated and scared of that move and who today

realize it was the best thing that could have happened for their children. We understand this fear. None of us can live and walk in those shoes. We are doing our absolute best to be open about this

process, to make sure they will be involved in a plan for their children.

There are varying degrees of needs with the people who live in institutions today, the 1,000 who are left in Ontario. One individual who lives there actually

works all day in the community and then comes to his home in the evening. Another individual goes for five-mile walks on his own, every day, outside. So it is extremely varying in terms of what

their needs are.

There are also very high needs for people who live in this institution. It is our job to be certain, when those plans are made, that there will be supports

available, as they need them, in the community or they will not be moved out. We are determined to do this well.

GO TRANSIT

Mr Bob Delaney (Mississauga West): My question is for the Minister of Transportation and highways. Commuters who live in Mississauga, Brampton

and neighbouring communities crowd the GO trains on the Milton line every day. If we had more trains, we'd fill each and every one. If we had more capacity on the existing trains, commuters could

fill that capacity. Specifically, in the area I represent, the riding of Mississauga West, commuters in Streetsville, Meadowvale, Lisgar, Churchill Meadows and Erin Mills face the frustrating

prospect of a daily commute to commute, driving along traffic-clogged roads such as Derry Road, Aquitaine, Battleford, Britannia, Eglinton and Burnhamthorpe to connect to the Meadowvale,

Streetsville and Erindale GO stations. Minister, will there be any relief from this east-west commute with the new GO train station in the northwest corner of the city, and is there any way we can

increase capacity on the existing GO line?

Hon Harinder S. Takhar (Minister of Transportation): I want to thank the honourable member from Mississauga West for asking this question. I

want to assure him that I represent the neighbouring riding, so I'm very much aware of the issue he's talking about. As the member is aware, earlier this year we partnered with the federal

government to announce about a $1-billion investment in GO Transit, and some of this investment will actually work its way through to make some of the improvements the member is talking about. I

know he has a keen interest in the Lisgar GO station. That is in GO Transit's capital plan. We're going to move ahead with that GO station and we are in the process of acquiring the property to do

so.

Mr Delaney: Thank you, Minister. As a resident of Lisgar in that northwest corner of Mississauga, I look forward to being among the first to

ride that inaugural GO train out of the new station of Lisgar. Perhaps you would join me as we both make our way to work. I can speak for the commuters of northwest Mississauga in urging you and GO

Transit to move forward on this very urgent need, to help more people leave their cars at home.

Minister, will GO Transit rail commuters on the Bradford, Georgetown, Stouffville and Lakeshore corridors see any new capital expansion of their services as

well? For those of us who enjoy excellent rail commuter service when the good weather is in, but who suffer through annual delays during the cold and the snow, can you outline what steps GO Transit

has taken to enhance its ability to get the trains to their destinations, on time and in bad weather?

Hon Mr Takhar: I want to thank the honourable member again for asking this question. As I have indicated already, we have committed to making

a $1-billion investment, along with the federal government, in GO Transit operations. Recently we opened a GO Transit station in Gwillimbury, and the honourable member from the other side was there

as well. We are expected to open two or three more GO Transit stations.

As to some of the issues we faced in winter last year, GO Transit has already put a contingency plan in place to have heat below so that we don't face the same

kind of issues this winter. We look forward to having smoother operations as we move forward.

HERITAGE LEGISLATION

Mrs Julia Munro (York North): My question is for the Minister of Culture. This morning the six largest church denominations in Ontario,

representing more than three million members in this province, presented a joint brief to the standing committee on justice policy. Some of their representatives are here with us today in the

gallery. In that brief they strongly opposed parts of Bill 60, which amends the Ontario Heritage Act. They said it creates serious problems for them as the largest non-government holder of

designated buildings under the act, and that your ministry never consulted them about these changes. They said they believed these serious problems could have been resolved with this consultation

to everyone's benefit, but no one has talked to them. Minister, why did you not consult with Ontario churches before introducing this bill?

Hon Madeleine Meilleur (Minister of Culture, minister responsible for francophone affairs): First of all, the consultation regarding the

amendment to the Heritage Act was started with the previous government. We continued the consultations, and we had a wide consultation. We recognize the churches have a problem. I have met with

them. We have listened to their concerns. I want to reassure them that this provision we are proposing to put into the act has been present in about seven provinces in Canada. So I don't think they

need to worry, because it's the time provision that is present and the churches across these provinces are under this time provision.

Mrs Munro: Minister, I appreciate the fact that you acknowledged the work that was done by the previous government. However, I would suggest

to you that that's not an excuse for the lack of consultation that has taken place.

The churches say that a fundamental problem with the bill is that it treats all designated property owners as either governments that can meet rising

maintenance costs out of tax revenues or as commercial enterprises that can raise the price of their products, but there is no place in the structure for congregations who pay the bills from a

Sunday morning collection plate and who are designated over their objections.

These churches may have to take money from programs such as Out of the Cold to meet the requirements imposed upon them by this bill. Some growing congregations

will not be able to adapt their buildings for affordable housing or other community programs because of this bill.

Minister, you made reference in your response to other provinces. I suggest you look at the fact that there are other provinces that do have opportunities for

buildings such as this. Are you now prepared to delay passing this bill and to take the time to consult with the churches to resolve their concerns?

Hon Mrs Meilleur: As I said, we have met with the churches and they have explained their concerns. We have reviewed the concerns with

staff.

I wanted to remind the member of the opposite party that she supported the amendment to the bill. She voted for it on second reading.

Of course, there is concern. There is a process built into the proposed amendment whereby they can appeal it to the OMB. So if they wanted to demolish the

churches and they were refused by the municipality, they will have recourse before the OMB.

AUTISM SERVICES

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a question to the Minister of Children and Youth Services. Minister, the auditor's report on the

government's autism program noted that children are regularly shortchanged IBI hours that they were promised.

Adam Shane was accepted into the program in July 2003. He was promised 24 hours of IBI every week. From mid-August 2003 to September 2004, he only received 15

hours of IBI treatment weekly. This September, Erinoak increased his IBI treatment to 20 hours a week. But now, the clinical director has told Adam's mom she wants to transition him out of the

program even though his senior IBI therapist who works with him says he needs the IBI that he was promised and he's not due to turn six until September. Erinoak wants to reduce his hours after

Christmas to 18 per week, and then down to 15 after the March break.

Minister, what will you do to ensure that Adam Shane will receive the treatment that he was promised?

Hon Marie Bountrogianni (Minister of Children and Youth Services, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration): I thank the honourable member for

bringing me another specific case. I can tell you that the other specific cases the honourable member brought forward have been looked at by the ministry, and this one will be as well. If there is

any rule or criteria that is not being adhered to to give this boy the therapy he deserves and needs, we will look into it right away.

With respect to the program as a whole, we took the Provincial Auditor's report, we appreciated the report, and we are looking at better ways of funding that

particular program.

Ms Martel: Minister, there's an additional problem facing Adam, one that I made your ministry staff aware of on September 14 and again in the

estimates on October 26. Adam started afternoon kindergarten this September. Even though his teacher, his special education teacher and his principal all agreed that his IBI therapist should be

allowed into the classroom, the Peel District School Board said no, so he cannot get IBI at school. At the same time, this September Erinoak gave Adam more hours of treatment but they changed their

hours of operation. So in order to access the additional treatment, his mom has to pull him out of school two afternoons a week to attend Erinoak.

Minister, it's wrong that the Peel District School Board will not allow his IBI therapist into the classroom. It's also wrong that Erinoak would change its

hours of operation so that it cannot support this family. What will you do to force Erinoak, a service provider of your ministry, to change its hours so that it can support this family and not

force Adam to miss any more school?

Hon Mrs Bountrogianni: I will let the honourable member know that I will look into this matter, because if this boy is under six and he meets

all the criteria, he should be getting IBI therapy.

DRIVE CLEAN

Mr Lorenzo Berardinetti (Scarborough Southwest): My question is for the Minister of the Environment. Yesterday, the Provincial Auditor

reported several abuses involving the Drive Clean program. I'm certain that most Ontarians understand the importance of monitoring and limiting tailpipe emissions from cars and trucks. After all,

cars and trucks are major contributors to the smog that threatens the health of many Ontarians and compromises their quality of life. However, I'm certain that most Ontarians cannot tolerate abuses

of the Drive Clean program like those that the Provincial Auditor has reported.

Minister, what is the government doing to prevent continued abuses of the Drive Clean program?

Hon Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of the Environment): I want to assure the members of this House and the people of Ontario that, first of all,

the Ministry of the Environment welcomes the report of the Provincial Auditor. It certainly informs us as a ministry. It's a program that we need to pay some attention to.

With respect to the duplicate certificates, this was an issue that was identified in 2000, that duplicate certificates were being used to process drivers'

licences. When we came to office in December, my ministry, along with the Ministry of Transportation, began to work on the problem. I'm very happy to report that as of July 2004, no longer were

duplicate certificates allowed to be used for the purchase of drivers' licences.

I think it's important to remind the people of Ontario as well that the vast majority of people who provide the testing services for the people in the province

operate legitimately. But the very clear message of our government is, when you offer Drive Clean services, if you cheat, you are out.

Mr Tony C. Wong (Markham): I'd like to thank the minister for the actions that the government is taking to prevent continued abuses of the

Drive Clean program. I'm certain that the people of Ontario will be encouraged to hear that the government intends to crack down on any fraudulent activities involving the Drive Clean program.

The introduction of cleaner fuels like ethanol, reported improvements in vehicle emissions control technology and increased usage of public transit must

combine to warrant periodic reviews of a vehicle emissions monitoring program like Drive Clean. For example, I have heard that now more than half of the cars on Ontario roads are 1997 models or

newer. That must mean that many more cars now have on-board diagnostic systems that monitor the emissions.

Minister, knowing these things, moving forward, what role will a vehicle emissions monitoring program like Drive Clean have in the government's plan to clean

up the air and protect human health?

Hon Mrs Dombrowsky: Our government is certainly committed to cleaner air for the people of Ontario. We believe that the Drive Clean program

has had an impact on reducing pollutants in the air.

I also want to say to the people of Ontario that if there's any question about the facility they might use, if they want to see if there is a history for that

facility of perhaps a questionable nature, they can check the Drive Clean site.

With respect to our plan going forward, it was part of the initial Drive Clean plan that there would be a review in 2006-07. What I announced yesterday is that

my ministry will conduct that review beginning in January 2005. I'm looking for a report back from that review by the summer of 2005.

It is a program that we do want to pay some attention to, and we believe that we need some information on it. We're looking for recommendations from a

science-based perspective. We think that it's very important. As the member has identified, there's new technology out there, and we believe it's time to look at this program from that

perspective.

GREENBELT LEGISLATION

Mr Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): A question to the Minister of Agriculture: In a news release yesterday, the Ontario Federation of Agriculture

president, Ron Bonnett, called on the McGuinty Liberal government to slow down the greenbelt process to ensure that you get it right. Specifically, he asked you to extend the deadline for

submissions on the draft plan and to send this bill to an all-party committee before it is called for a third reading vote.

Minister, the official opposition agrees with this request. Do you?

Hon Steve Peters (Minister of Agriculture and Food): As the Minister of Agriculture and Food, I'm the minister responsible for making sure

that we stand up for farmers in this province. One of the things we want to make sure of very clearly in this province is that we leave a legacy for future generations, and that legacy we're going

to leave behind is the greenbelt. We're going to make sure that agricultural land is there for farming, that agricultural land is there for raising crops. We do not want agricultural land to be

paved over. We do not want agricultural land raising subdivisions. We're going to stand up and make sure that we preserve that agricultural land.

In your supplementary, I'll be very happy to refer your question to the Minister of Municipal Affairs, who has the lead on this issue.

Mr Hudak: Obviously Ontario farmers, particularly those in the greenbelt, aren't going to be too happy with your ducking a very simple

question. They're going to want you to get off the wanted posters and get out there and advocate for Ontario farmers.

Ron Bonnett said in his release, "There are too many unknowns by citizens about the impact of the legislation and an obvious lack of understanding by

government officials of the impacts of the legislation on" -- Ontario -- "farmers."

The official opposition, like Ontario farmers, believes in protecting green space. We have done that successfully through Lands for Life, the Oak Ridges

moraine plan, which won an award, the Niagara Escarpment plan, the Bruce Trail; but when we do it, we do it based on good science and a plan to make sure it works. Ontario farmers are asking for

the time to make sure you get it right, municipal leaders are asking for time to get it right and concerned taxpayers are asking you to take the time to get it right. I ask you, Minister, will you

please say yes to the OFA's request and send this to an all-party committee? Let's make sure we get the greenbelt right, based on good science.

Hon Mr Peters: I'll refer the question to the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.

Hon John Gerretsen (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, minister responsible for seniors): First of all, we have done more consultation

on the greenbelt over the last year -- through our greenbelt task force, which had at least 10 or 12 consultation sessions, through the consultations that have been held recently where we've gone

to eight different communities and listened to the people -- than that party ever did on the Oak Ridges moraine.

Secondly, let me make it absolutely clear that although we hope this legislation will pass by December 15, we have made it clear that we hope to pass the

actual mapping and the regulation under the legislation within 45 days after December 15. The farming community is aware of that, all the people we've spoken to are aware of that, because we want

to make sure the final delineation of the greenbelt is right and correct. That's why we're going over all the submissions and that's why the mapping will be done at some time before February 1,

next year.

TFO

M. Gilles Bisson (Timmins-Baie James): Ma question est à la ministre déléguée aux Affaires francophones. Madame la

ministre, vous allez savoir que la dernière élection, dans votre plateforme électorale vous avez promis très clairement l'autonomie à TFO.

Je suis venu à l'Assemblée au mois de mai, l'année passée, et j'ai demandé : « Qu'est-ce que vous faites pour garder

votre engagement? » Vous m'avez dit, à travers l'autre ministre, « Oh, ne vous inquiétez pas. On va augmenter la représentation des francophones sous la

commission de trois à six. »

Madame la ministre, comment expliquez-vous qu'aujourd'hui on a seulement deux personnes sur le CA de TFO qui sont francophones? Vous avez promis qu'ils

étaient pour au moins six.

L'hon. Madeleine Meilleur (ministre de la Culture, ministre déléguée aux Affaires francophones): Merci de la question. C'est

une question très pertinente. Je veux vous dire qu'à TFO, premièrement, il faut attendre qu'il y ait des vacances avant de nommer des gens. À chaque fois qu'il y a une vacance,

on nomme un francophone. Alors, on a des francophones qui vont être nommés parce que c'est un engagement que l'on a pris, et on veut continuer dans cette même veine-là.

Alors, pour la deuxième question, la question supplémentaire, je vais la référer à la ministre responsable de TFO-TVO. Merci.

M. Bisson: Madame la ministre, les seules vacances qu'on va avoir sont des vacances des promesses brisées que votre gouvernement donne au

reste de l'Ontario. C'est clair. Vous avez promis dans l'élection -- on était pour avoir une autonomie pour TFO. Ce qu'on apprend : pas d'autonomie. On parle même de

réduire le budget. Là, on arrive à la Chambre après l'élection et M me Chambers dit, en anglais : « Don't worry. There are 13 members on the board.

We're going to give you six." We were three then; we're now down to two.

Madame la ministre, vous avez brisé votre promesse quand ça vient à ce que vous avez promis dans les élections, et là, vous brisez

même votre mot sur ce que vous avez dit à cette Assemblée le printemps passé. Qui, de ce bord-là, est préparé à parler pour TFO et s'assurer que TFO continue

dans le futur avec une gestion francophone et un budget qui fait du bons sens?

Hon Mrs Meilleur: I will refer the question to the minister responsible for TFO-TVO, the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities.

Hon Mary Anne V. Chambers (Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities): I'm really happy to respond to this question. The third party has

expressed supposed interest in the film industry today. I think their area of preferred entertainment is actually fiction. We actually have 13 board members, and of those 13 we have made a

commitment to five francophone members. At this point we have four, because we actually did two more appointments today. You should be up to date. So it's done. I can also tell you that we are

working on number five, because in fact we would have five francophone members on that board except that, unfortunately, we have just had one resign because of illness. We're working on number five

as we speak.

HYDRO GENERATION

Mr Tim Peterson (Mississauga South): My question is for the Minister of Energy. As you know, the Lakeview coal generating plant is located in

Mississauga South. The people of Mississauga South, in Peel region and in Toronto are certainly looking forward to better air quality once the Lakeview coal plant has been shut down.

In July, Toronto public health released a study which estimates that the air pollution in the city contributes to about 1,700 premature deaths and 6,000

admissions to hospital each year. It is clear that closing the Lakeview plant will help clean up our air. However, as you are aware, when this plant stops burning coal, it stops producing

electricity. Could you tell us what the government is doing to ensure that we have enough clean electricity in Ontario going forward?

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): The member is absolutely right. Lakeview accounts for 26% of the GTA's

SO 2 emissions and 8% of its NO x emissions. Lakeview will be the first coal-fired station to close. I can confirm for the member that it will close on or before April 30, 2005,

as per plan and in spite of the objections of the Conservatives and New Democrats to that important initiative.

We have taken a number of steps already to ensure an adequate electricity supply in the greater Toronto area. First, Hydro One has already redirected a number

of transmission lines to provide for that. But more importantly, this government is the first government in many, many years to provide new, clean, non-hydro renewable electricity: wind power,

biogas. The Conservatives ignored that; the NDP ignored that. This government, under the leadership of Premier McGuinty, has assured and made certain that conservation will be part of this

province's culture. The New Democrats cancelled all conservation programs in Ontario, and the former Tory energy minister said it didn't really work.

We're moving ahead with a cleaner, greener electricity plan, and because of your efforts and the efforts of other members from the Mississauga area, Lakeview

will close on or before April 30, 2005.

PETITIONS

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

Mr Jim Flaherty (Whitby-Ajax): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario about supporting chiropractic services in the Ontario

health insurance plan.

"Whereas elimination of OHIP coverage will mean that many of the 1.2 million patients who use chiropractic will no longer be able to access the health care

they need; and

"Whereas those with reduced ability to pay -- including seniors, low-income families and the working poor -- will be forced to seek care in already

overburdened family physician offices and emergency departments; and

"Whereas elimination of OHIP coverage is expected to save $93 million in expenditures on chiropractic treatment at a cost to government of over $200 million in

other health care costs; and

"Whereas there was no consultation with the public on the decision to delist chiropractic services;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to reverse the decision announced in the May 18, 2004, provincial budget and maintain OHIP

coverage for chiropractic services, in the best interests of the public, patients, the health care system, government and the province."

I have signed my name.

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have thousands more petitions from people concerned about cuts to chiropractic services. It reads as

follows:

"Whereas the elimination of OHIP coverage will mean that many of the 1.2 million patients who use chiropractic will no longer be able to access the health care

they need;

"Whereas those with reduced ability to pay -- including seniors, low-income families and the working poor -- will be forced to seek care in already

overburdened family physician offices and emergency departments;

"Whereas elimination of OHIP coverage is expected to save $93 million in expenditures on chiropractic treatment at a cost to government of over $200 million in

other health care costs; and

"Whereas there was no consultation with the public on the decision to delist chiropractic services;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to reverse the decision announced in the May 18, 2004, provincial budget and maintain OHIP

coverage for chiropractic services, in the best interests of the public, patients, the health care system, government and the province."

I agree with the petitioners. I've affixed my signature to this.

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr Pat Hoy (Chatham-Kent Essex): "

Whereas Dalton McGuinty and his Liberal government were elected based on their promise to rebuild public

services in Ontario;

"Whereas the Minister of Community and Social Services has announced plans to close Ontario's three remaining regional centres for people with developmental

disabilities, located in Smiths Falls, Orillia and Blenheim, Ontario;

"Whereas the regional centres are home to more than 1,000 disabled adults, many of whom have multiple diagnoses and severe problems that cannot be met in the

community;

"Whereas closing the regional centres will have a devastating impact on people with developmental disabilities, their families, the developmental services

sector and economies of the local communities; and

"Whereas Ontario could use the professional staff and facilities of the regional centres to extend specialized services, support and professional training to

thousands more clients who live in the community, in partnership with families and community agencies;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to direct the government to keep Ontario's regional centres for people with developmental

disabilities open, and to transform them into centres of excellence to provide specialized services and support to Ontarians with developmental needs, no matter where they might live."

This petition is signed by a number of residents from Tilbury, Blenheim, Chatham, Wheatley and beyond.

PET SCANNER

Mr Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): I have a petition signed by 202 people who are supporting that funding be provided for all patients who use the

new PET scanner at St Joseph's Hospital in London. The majority of these signatures are those of the cancer survivors who were taking

part in our Woodstock Cancer Relay for Life on June 18, 2004.

As I said, there are 202 signatures on it, to provide that funding for the hospital.

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): I have a petition that reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Dalton McGuinty and his Liberal government were elected based on their promise to rebuild public services in Ontario;

"Whereas the Minister of Community and Social Services has announced plans to close Ontario's three remaining regional centres for people with developmental

disabilities, located in Smiths Falls, Orillia and Blenheim, Ontario;

"Whereas the regional centres are home to more than 1,000 disabled adults, many of whom have multiple diagnoses and severe problems that cannot be met in the

community;

"Whereas closing the regional centres will have a devastating impact on people with developmental disabilities, their families, the developmental services

sector and the economies of the local communities; and

"Whereas Ontario could use the professional staff and facilities of the regional centres to extend specialized services, support and professional training to

thousand more clients who live in the community, in partnership with families and community agencies;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to direct the government to keep Ontario's regional centres for people with developmental

disabilities open, and to transform them into centres of excellence to provide specialized services and support to Ontarians with developmental needs, no matter where they live."

It is signed by about 300 people, primarily from the Orillia and southwestern Ontario areas. I am in agreement and affix my signature thereto.

WORKERS' COMPENSATION

Mr Kuldip Kular (Bramalea-Gore-Malton-Springdale): My petition is to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario

"Whereas, since Bill 99 was passed in 1997 by the Harris government, the situation for injured workers with respect to income, recognition of their injuries by

the compensation system, treatment by the employer and opportunities for re-employment has dramatically deteriorated; and

"Whereas employers have more power today to frustrate and intimidate injured workers and are less accountable for their actions; and

"Whereas employers are increasingly putting greater effort into avoiding reporting of claims and associated costs than into preventing injuries; and

"Whereas the compensation system is increasingly more concerned about minimizing costs for employers than ensuring full compensation for workers; and

"Whereas it is the responsibility of the provincial government to ensure fair and adequate compensation for workers and to ensure healthy and safe

workplaces;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To direct the provincial government to immediately:

"Change the name of the Workplace Safety and Insurance Board back to the Workers' Compensation Board;

"Implement full cost-of-living protection for injured workers;

"Establish full coverage for all workers and all work-related disabilities and diseases under the compensation system;

"Abolish experience rating which encourages employers to, and rewards them for, hiding occupational injury and illness by giving them money back from their

premiums;

"Enforce health and safety in the workplace by hiring more inspectors and sending them to workplaces without giving advance notice to the employer;

"Enforce employer re-employment obligations and abolish provisions which deem workers to be receiving wages from jobs they don't have;

"Conduct a complete review of the workers' compensation system in order to write new legislation which ensures fundamental benefits and rights for workers,

including survivors of workers killed on the job, as called for in the CAW Jobs or Full Compensation platform."

I put my signature to this petition as well.

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario for support for chiropractic services in the

Ontario health insurance plan. It reads:

"Whereas,

"Elimination of OHIP coverage will mean that many of the 1.2 million patients who use chiropractic will no longer be able to access the health care they

need;

"Those with reduced ability to pay -- including seniors, low-income families and the working poor -- will be forced to seek care in already overburdened family

physician offices and emergency departments;

"Elimination of OHIP coverage is expected to save $93 million in expenditures on chiropractic treatment at a cost to government of over $200 million in other

health care costs; and

"There was no consultation with the public on the decision to delist chiropractic services;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to reverse the decision announced in the May 18, 2004, provincial budget and maintain OHIP

coverage for chiropractic services, in the best interests of the public, patients, the health care system, government and the province."

I affix my signature in support of this petition.

OPTOMETRISTS

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. It reads as follows:

"Whereas the last funding agreement between the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care and the Ontario Association of Optometrists (OAO) expired March 31, 2000;

and

"Whereas the optometric fees for OHIP-insured services remain unchanged since 1989; and

"Whereas the lack of any fee increase for 15 years has created a crisis situation for optometrists; and

"Whereas fees for OHIP services do not provide for fair or reasonable compensation for the professional services of optometrists, in that they no longer cover

the costs of providing eye examinations; and

"Whereas it is in the best interests of patients and the government to have a new funding agreement for insured services that will ensure that the most

vulnerable members of society are able to receive the eye care they need;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care resume negotiations immediately with the OAO and appoint a mediator to help with the negotiation process in

order to ensure that optometrists can continue to provide quality eye care services to patients in Ontario."

I agree with the petitioners and I have affixed my signature to this.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mrs Maria Van Bommel (Lambton-Kent-Middlesex): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the funding formula used by the Ministry of Health provided only a 1% increase for Four Counties Health Services in Newbury; and

"Whereas Four Counties Health Services has a projected deficit of $1.7 million; and

"Whereas the plan to balance the budget of Four Counties Health Services by 2006 recommends the closing of all beds at the hospital; and....

"Whereas the continuing viability and operation is of critical importance to the quality of life of all citizens in the hospital's catchment area;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, request a review of the budget/funding and consultation with the hospital board/administration/community to reflect the needs

of our rural hospital and community."

I have signed a previous copy of this petition, and I give this to Nicholas.

TUITION

Mr Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and it reads as follows:

"Whereas the Ontario Liberal government took an historic step forward by funding a tuition fee freeze for two years; and

"Whereas a majority of Ontarians support increased public funding for colleges and universities as well as reduced tuition fees; and

"Whereas increasing student debt through income-contingent loan repayment schemes or raising loan limits only increases the cost of post-secondary education

for students from modest means; and

"Whereas per student investment in Ontario still lags gravely behind the vast majority of jurisdictions in North America;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, supporting the Canadian Federation of Students' call to increase funding for colleges and universities and reduce tuition fees

for all Ontario students, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to (1) reduce tuition fees for all students in Ontario, (2) increase public funding for post-secondary education to at least

the national average, and (3) implement an upfront, needs-based grant system for Ontario full-time and part-time students."

I've affixed my signature as well.

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

Ms Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): A petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the elimination of OHIP coverage will mean that many of the 1.2 million patients who use chiropractic will no longer be able to access the health care

they need;

"Whereas those with reduced ability to pay -- including seniors, low-income families and the working poor -- will be forced to seek care in already

overburdened family physician offices and emergency departments;

"Whereas the elimination of OHIP coverage is expected to save $93 million in expenditures on chiropractic treatment at a cost to government of over $200

million in other health care costs; and

"Whereas there was no consultation with the public on the decision to delist chiropractic services;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to reverse the decision announced in the May 18, 2004, provincial budget and maintain OHIP

coverage for chiropractic services, in the best interests of the public, patients, the health care system, government and the province."

I agree with this petition, and I've signed it as well.

OPTOMETRISTS

Mrs Julia Munro (York North): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the last funding agreement between the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care and the Ontario Association of Optometrists (OAO) expired March 31, 2000;

and

"Whereas the optometric fees for OHIP-insured services remain unchanged since 1989; and

"Whereas the lack of any fee increase for 15 years has created a crisis situation for optometrists; and

"Whereas fees for OHIP services do not provide for fair or reasonable compensation for the professional services of optometrists, in that they no longer cover

the costs of providing eye examinations; and

"Whereas it is in the best interests of patients and the government to have a new funding agreement for insured services that will ensure that the most

vulnerable members of society are able to receive the eye care they need;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care resume negotiations immediately with the OAO and appoint a mediator to help with the negotiation process in

order to ensure that optometrists can continue to provide quality eye care services to patients in Ontario."

As I am in agreement with this, I affix my signature.

REGIONAL CENTRES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): This is "Save Our Regional Centres for People with Developmental Disabilities." It reads:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Dalton McGuinty and his Liberal government were elected based on their promise to rebuild public services in Ontario;

"Whereas the Minister of Community and Social Services has announced plans to close Ontario's three remaining regional centres for people with developmental

disabilities, located in Smiths Falls, Orillia and Blenheim, Ontario;

"Whereas the regional centres are home to more than 1,000 disabled adults, many of whom have multiple diagnoses and severe problems that cannot be met in the

community;

"Whereas closing the regional centres will have a devastating impact on people with developmental disabilities, their families, the developmental services

sector and the economies of the local communities; and,

"Whereas Ontario could use the professional staff and facilities of the regional centres to extend specialized services, support and professional training to

thousands more clients who live in the community, in partnership with families and community agencies,

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to direct the government to keep Ontario's regional centres for people with developmental

disabilities open, and to transform them into `centres of excellence' to provide specialized services and support to Ontarians with developmental needs, no matter where they live."

I'm pleased to sign my name to this as well.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL

AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LE CONSEIL EXÉCUTIF

Mr Bryant moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 17,

An Act to amend the Executive Council Act / Projet de loi 17, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur le Conseil exécutif.

Hon Dwight Duncan (Minister of Energy, Government House Leader): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I believe we have unanimous consent to

conduct this afternoon's proceedings on Bill 17 as follows:

The time available for debate, up till 5:50 pm, shall be apportioned equally among the recognized parties. At 5:50 pm, the Speaker shall interrupt the

proceedings and shall put every question necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of Bill 17 without further debate or amendment.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): Do we have unanimous consent? Agreed.

Mr Norman W. Sterling (Lanark-Carleton): If the debate doesn't take till 5:50 pm, I assume we would adjourn thereafter?

The Deputy Speaker: Yes. Agreed? Agreed.

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker: According to the motion, if the debate goes to 5:50, we put the question at that time. If the debate collapses before that

time, I will then put the question at 10 minutes to 6.

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker: At the time. There, now it's clear -- and the vote will be deferred.

OK, we're ready to go. Mr Bryant?

Hon Michael Bryant (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs, minister responsible for democratic renewal): It's a pleasure

to lead off the debate on this bill. We believe the Legislature matters. I hope everybody in this Legislature agrees with that. This bill is about accountability. It's about setting up some minimum

rules to ensure accountability in this House. We're doing so by way of a bill which, if passed, will entrench some rules as a commitment of this government to ensure that that critical moment of

accountability that happens in our parliamentary democracy -- that is to say, question period -- is in fact respected and observed in a fashion that sees the Premier and members of the executive

council here on a regular basis, in attendance for question period.

The bill underlies our commitment to having the Legislature work better for the people of Ontario. We are taking action to strengthen our democratic

institutions. Bill 17 is one example of that commitment in action, and I'll be speaking about a few others.

Before I forget -- there are going to be some distinguished speakers, I know, on both sides of the House speaking to this -- I'll be sharing my time with the

members for Kitchener Centre, London-Fanshawe, Etobicoke-Lakeshore, and Bramalea-Gore Malton-Springdale.

In December of last year, as the first step toward renewing democracy in Ontario, pursuant to our commitment made well before the last election to renew our

democratic institutions, we made a number of changes and announced those changes, including amendments to the Executive Council Act.

If passed, the bill would require cabinet ministers to attend at least two thirds of all question periods over a government's term in office. We believe that

cabinet ministers should be in the Legislature to be asked questions in question period, participate in debate and be publicly accountable to the people of Ontario for their actions. It should be

self-evident. I think most people would agree that cabinet ministers and the first minister, the Premier, should be here to answer questions. It's obviously a fundamental part of our parliamentary

system.

Why are we doing it? We're doing it, in part, to entrench the commitment. We're doing it, in part, because it has not always been the case that we have had a

situation where we felt that the level of accountability by the executive council was reflected in their attendance in question period. So this way, we are setting a standard for this government

and leading by example by ensuring that we attend question period at least two thirds of the time. The bill is obviously before the Legislature, but we have been ensuring even before the bill is

passed -- if it passes, after we consider debate in this House -- that the Premier and cabinet ministers are here on a regular basis, and we are.

This bill will confirm that this is the place in which elected MPPs hold the government and the executive council to account, not only here but before the

cameras, so that people watching at home can get answers to questions about what the government of the day is doing. The bill will strengthen the foundations of the parliamentary system: ministers

of the crown being answerable to the members of this House during question period and, through members, to the people.

Hon Rick Bartolucci (Minister of Northern Development and Mines): That's the way it's supposed to be.

Hon Mr Bryant: It is the way it's supposed to be, my great seatmate says. I guess this is self self-evident. The only criticism I've heard

about this bill so far is that it really shouldn't have to be necessary, and the reality is, I wish it weren't. There is not only an important principle but an opportunity here in that we're not

only entrenching this requirement for attendance, we're also doing so by way of statute in a way that is quintessentially Canadian.

It is not the case in all other Legislatures of the Commonwealth that members of cabinet or the Premier have to be in attendance to the extent to which we are

here in Ontario. In the United Kingdom, the Prime Minister must be present for question period for 15 minutes, two times a week. For the other ministers, they answer questions by way of a roster.

They're rostered, so though there may be an important issue of the day before the House of Commons in the United Kingdom, the shadow cabinet member is not able to stand up and ask a question to his

or her counterpart about that particular issue. In fact, the way it works out is that a minister is up about once every 15 days to answer questions,

whereas here in Ontario, and rightly so, in

varying levels across Canada and also in the federal House of Commons, we have a requirement that the Premier and cabinet ministers are here in question period every day and we can be asked a

question any day, and sometimes more than one, particularly if you're the Minister of the Environment, who tends to get a lot of questions, it seems.

Interjection: Good answers too.

Hon Mr Bryant: Excellent answers.

Also, in the United Kingdom, the minister gets a heads-up as to what the question is going to be. Written notice is provided to the minister, who gets a

question every 15 days, as to when it's going to take place. That's not a criticism of that House, but that is their tradition.

Our tradition is that the Premier and cabinet regularly be here to answer questions, and this bill entrenches that very important Ontario convention and

tradition in a way that will ensure that no matter what the rules of the House are, in the event that this bill passes, as long as it is the law of Ontario, that will be the requirement. It is not

just a procedural matter, I would submit; I think it is also an important historical opportunity for us to say, "Here is how our Legislature works."

I hope we're all in agreement that we need to do everything we can to make this Legislature work better, to make our parliamentary system work better and to

make our democratic system work better. A lot of parties will talk about that from time to time, but what we are doing with our democratic renewal agenda is actually implementing all of these

reforms that many people, frankly, have been talking about for many years. So this bill is just part of our democratic renewal initiative. It is the most ambitious agenda for democratic renewal in

the history of this province since Confederation.

Recently, the Premier and I announced an examination of our electoral system by a citizens' assembly. This citizens' assembly will be not unlike the citizens'

assembly that was convened in the province of British Columbia, in that it will be a random selection of citizens undertaken by the chief electoral officer, who, after the random selection has been

done, will then ask citizens whether or not they want to participate, and if they do, then they will. As was undertaken in British Columbia, we'll make sure that we have complete gender balance

and, of course, complete regional representation from across the province as well.

Never before has a government in Ontario given citizens such a direct role in shaping how our political process works. It is to say to the people, "You have

inherited a certain electoral system," as the Premier often says. This is an opportunity for the people to say whether or not they think it works and whether or not we need changes to it. In the

event that the citizens' assembly recommends that changes indeed need to be made, we will put that question to the people by way of a referendum.

We will also set up a citizens' jury to consider a new political finance regime that will ensure that people have confidence when it comes to the role of money

and politics and the members of this Legislature. What bet