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April 24, 2018

RESOURCE COMMITTEE

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Barry Petten, MHA for Conception Bay South,

substitutes for Tracey Perry, MHA for Fortune Bay - Cape La Hune.

The

Committee met at 6:03 p.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR (Warr):

Okay, if we can get

ourselves comfortable, we will begin.

Good

evening everybody. Welcome to the Estimates of the Department of Advanced

Education, Skills and Labour.

Just a

note that Mr. Petten is substituting for Ms. Perry tonight and the first thing

I'll ask is the Committee to introduce themselves, starting with Mr. Petten.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Barry

Petten, MHA for Conception Bay South.

MR. SHEPPARD:

James Sheppard, Researcher, Official Opposition.

MS. MICHAEL:

Lorraine Michael, MHA, St.

John's East - Quidi Vidi.

MR. MORGAN:

Ivan Morgan, Researcher, NDP caucus.

MR. FINN:

John Finn, MHA, Stephenville

- Port au Port.

MR. BRAGG:

Derrick Bragg, MHA, Fogo

Island - Cape Freels.

MR. DEAN:

Jerry Dean, MHA, Exploits.

CHAIR:

My name is Brian Warr; I'm

the MHA for Baie Verte - Green Bay and your Chair for this evening.

Minister, we will offer you some opening remarks. I'd like for your staff to

introduce themselves as well.

MR. HAWKINS:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To make

sure the mics are working – Al Hawkins, Minister of Advanced Education, Skills

and Labour – I'll let my staff introduce to make sure we're all online.

MS. DOOLING:

Good evening. I'm Genevieve Dooling, Deputy Minister.

MR. HANLON:

Brendan Hanlon, Departmental Controller.

MS. DUNPHY:

Debbie Dunphy, Assistant Deputy Minister of Corporate Services and Policy.

MS. ENNIS-WILLIAMS:

Hi, I'm Candice Ennis-Williams; I'm ADM, Post-Secondary Education.

MS. LANGOR:

Hi, Fiona Langor, Assistant Deputy Minister, Workforce Development, Labour and

Immigration.

MR. MAVIN:

Walt Mavin, Director of Employment and Training Programs.

MS. O'BRIEN:

Donna O'Brien, Assistant Deputy Minister for Regional Services.

MS. PITCHER:

Margot Pitcher, Executive Assistant to Minister Hawkins.

MS. HOWARD:

Jacquelyn Howard, Director of Communications.

MR. BRANTON:

Glenn Branton, CEO, Labour Relations Board.

CHAIR:

Thank you.

Just

before we get started, I'd just remind the staff of the department if you're

asked to speak just say your name and wait for your tally light to light up.

It's most helpful for the Broadcast Centre, so we'd appreciate that.

Minister, if you'd like to start off with a few remarks?

MR. HAWKINS:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

certainly thank you –

CHAIR:

I'm sorry.

CLERK (Hammond):

(Inaudible.)

CHAIR:

Okay. Thank you.

CLERK:

(Inaudible) procedure.

CHAIR:

I'll ask the Clerk to call

the first subhead.

CLERK:

1.1.01.

CHAIR:

Shall 1.1.01 carry?

Mr.

Minister.

MR. HAWKINS:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

certainly thank you for the opportunity to discuss the Estimates, the budget

relating to Advanced Education, Skills and Labour. I want to say thank you to my

colleagues, the interest that they have and look forward to some questioning

with regard to what we have budgeted within the department.

I'll

just make a few comments before we get into the questioning piece. It's a

pleasure for me to represent a department such as Advanced Education, Skills and

Labour. I took over as minister at the end of July 31, the 1st of August. It's

certainly been a rewarding eight months since that change. I know the first few

months trying to embrace all the changes and trying to embrace all of the

different functions and programs within Advanced Education, Skills and Labour

was a challenge but, hopefully, I'm getting there.

Whether

through skills training, student financial assistance, immigration, labour

relations, or various socio-economic supports, the objective of the Department

of Advanced Education, Skills and Labour is one and that's to help the people.

We are guided by the philosophy that we should do everything possible to meet

our commitments in The Way Forward to

enable people to live independent and fulfilling lives. We want to ensure that

only the best of services and programs are offered to Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians to help them achieve employment and independence.

Over

the past year, the department has marked significant milestones in immigration,

skills training, apprenticeship and labour legislation. I'm going to highlight

some of these, and I know probably some of them will come up in the questions.

But just in case we don't get a chance to discuss that, I wanted to highlight

some of these initiatives that we had.

Twenty-five of the 39 initiatives, Mr. Chair, of

The Way Forward on Immigration in

Newfoundland and Labrador , our five-year Immigration Action Plan, were

initiated or implemented by the end of the 2017-18 fiscal year. This includes

measures such as convening the Minister's Roundtable on Immigration with the

first round table held in February, expanding newcomer settlement services

throughout the province and supporting the foreign qualification recognition. In

partnership with the federal government we expanded the Atlantic Apprenticeship

Harmonization Project to include six additional trades and we will continue to

work on increasing that as well.

We also

completed preparations to introduce an online training option in 2018-2019 for

five of the trades, enabling apprentices to continue working while completing

the training they require for journeyperson certification. We think this is a

very important move because we've heard complaints in the past that some of the

apprentices would have to conclude their employment in order to get their

training. Now, we're going to be providing that opportunity so they can do

online training and still continue their employment.

passed amendments to the Labour Standards

Act that align with changes to the

Canada Labour Code to enable working parents to access the new federal

parental leave benefits introduced, job-protected leave of up to 17 weeks to

provide care for critically-ill adult family members and to expand the

eligibility for critically-ill child care leave to include immediate and

extended family members. The amendments also enable nurse practitioners to

provide medical certificates to verify entitlement for new and existing leaves

under the Labour Standards Act which

should make it easier rather than having the physician make that determination.

I'd

like to take a few moments to share some of the highlights from

Budget 2018 and then turn it over to

the Committee to ask the questions. In the budget this year our government has

allocated a total of $366 million for Memorial University, which includes $55

million for the faculty of medicine in recognition of its critical role in the

province's society, culture and economy. That's significant, Mr. Chair. That's

more than New Brunswick provides for its four universities and almost as much as

Nova Scotia provides for all 10 of its universities.

Put

another way, this provincial funding represents approximately 80 per cent of

Memorial University's general operating revenues compared to the Canadian

average of 49 per cent. It works out to be a public investment of over $22,000

per full-time student. This funding helps Memorial University deliver

high-quality programming more affordably than anywhere else in Atlantic Canada

and well below the national average. Canadian and international students can

currently complete an undergraduate engineering degree at Memorial University

for about three times less cost than the average elsewhere in Canada. There is

$87.6 million, this year's budget, in operating funding provided for the College

of the North Atlantic and its 17 campuses.

As you

can see, our commitment to accessible, affordable, post-secondary education

remains strong. Budget 2018 allocates

$73.1 million to enable current tuition levels to be maintained for Newfoundland

and Labrador students. This includes an increase of $4 million for Memorial

University and $1.1 million for the College of the North Atlantic in 2018.

This

year we also announced an independent review of the public post-secondary

education system, which will explore how our post-secondary education system

compares to other jurisdictions, and recommend options to achieve better

outcomes in a more cost-efficient manner. That really piggybacks on the

Premier's Task Force for the K to 12, so we felt it was very timely to look at

post-secondary institutions.

The

provincial government continues to invest significantly in infrastructure at our

public post-secondary institutions and through our strong partnership with

federal government as well. Budget 2018

allocates $55.6 million to the province's public post-secondary institutions for

infrastructure projects. They include: $25.1 million provided for the Memorial

University's Core Science Facility, $13.6 million allocated for the construction

of the Centre of Excellence for Heavy Equipment and Industrial Trades at College

of the North Atlantic and $10.8 million to support the construction of

Memorial's Animal Resource Centre.

Budget 2018

provides funding for programs and services to maintain the province's skilled

workforce and prepare Newfoundlanders and Labradorians for emerging and future

labour demands. As a continuation of our government's commitment on

The Way Forward to expand

agriculture, aquaculture, oil and gas and technology sectors, we are supporting

career development opportunities for youth by allocating $196,000 for a new

Student Mentorship Program.

Budget 2018

also includes an investment of $13.1 million to delivering employment and

training programs; $6.1 million for youth-focused employment and career related

activities; $1.3 million to build capacity and provide online training in the

apprenticeship system; $641,000 in federal government funding this year to

establish the Atlantic Apprenticeship Harmonization office in this province – a

first for Newfoundland and Labrador and we're proud of that – and $230,000 cost

shared among the four Atlantic provinces for the establishment of an Atlantic

Workforce Partnership Secretariat in this province, another first for the

province.

Our

government will invest $2.4 million, in addition to the $1 million in federal

funding, to support the continued implementation of

The Way Forward on Immigration in

Newfoundland and Labrador with a goal to increase immigration by 50 per cent

to 1,700 newcomers annually by 2022. It's important to point out the provincial

government continues to work with our federal colleagues to access federal

funding where possible to support programs and services for Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians.

We've

had great success in identifying opportunities to leverage federal funding. The

examples of this include the establishment of the Atlantic Apprenticeship

Harmonization office in this province and the Post-Secondary Institutions

Strategic Investment Fund which has given us significant federal funding.

We have

recently finalized a new generation of labour market transfer agreements with

the federal government which will provide almost $900 million to support

employment and training programs over six years. This represents an increase

over previous agreements of over $80 million over a six-year period for this

province. Using federal funding strategically, and ensuring available funds are

fully utilized, helps reduce pressure on the Provincial Treasury. These are just

some of the highlights of this year's budget. Of course, it will be interesting

now as we delve into some of the line items.

Mr.

Chair, I will attempt to answer the questions to the best of my ability. If I

can't, I certainly have more than adequate staff that are capable of answering

the questions.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Minister.

Mr.

Petten.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

1.1.01.

Minister's Office; what positions are included under the Salaries?

MR. HAWKINS:

I didn't hear the question, Mr. Chair.

MR. PETTEN:

In 1.1.01 what positions are included in the Salaries line?

MR. HAWKINS:

That would be the minister, the executive assistant and, certainly, the

departmental secretary would be included. You're looking at three staff.

MR. PETTEN:

Yeah, sure.

Travel

and Communications; what was this used for?

MR. HAWKINS:

Travel and Communications? As you noticed, of course, we had budgeted $59,000 in

2017-18 and down to $55,900. Part of that was, as I said before, we have put in

zero-based budgeting; we have looked at opportunities where we can save as much

as possible. There were lower district travel requirements for me during '18-'19

from Grand Falls-Windsor to St. John's versus having to travel to Corner Brook.

With the new minister coming in, there were some slight changes with regard to

that amount.

MR. PETTEN:

1.2.01, Executive Support.

MR. HAWKINS:

1.2.01.

MR. PETTEN:

The revised amount was $59,300 less than what was budgeted. It was back up to

the ….

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah, that's the salary piece. Between budget 2017-18 and the revised we had a

change within the department; there was an ADM who left our department and

became a deputy minister in another department. The salary adjustment on that

would have been what you see in the difference there in the $50,000.

MR. PETTEN:

1.2.02, what about the number of positions in that Salaries line in this

compared to last year, in the previous year?

MR. HAWKINS:

I can tell you that we do have – I think it is 56 positions that we have

currently in that

section there. You will also notice there was a decrease.

We've changed the medical transportation staff; we're transferring them to the

Department of Health and Community Services.

You'll

see further on in our Estimates we'll pick up the other 15, but in this

particular decreasing and budgeting there, it relates to two positions that we

have transferred. You'll see the other 15 positions with a reduction in salary

later in our Estimates.

MR. PETTEN:

The reduction in the Transportation and Communications, is that a result of

those staff moving as well?

MR. HAWKINS:

There is no reduction. What we're doing is we're taking 17 positions that were

doing the transportation in AESL and we're transferring 17 positions to Health

and Community Services because we feel there are better efficiencies in that. We

don't have the duplication and they can better control exactly how the

transportation – sometimes there have been complaints; one department handling

this type of transportation and Health and Community Services handling another

type of transportation.

Now, at

least it's streamlined and we don't have that duplication piece. We've actually

taken the amount of money, plus the 17 positions, and transferred to Health and

Community Services.

MR. PETTEN:

My reference was to the Transportation and Communications line.

MR. HAWKINS:

Oh, I'm sorry.

MR. PETTEN:

It's $46,000 this year down from $74,000.

MR. HAWKINS:

We've had a slight reduction there. Basically we've cut some travel down for

audits and we're going to be doing one audit per year. Don't get alarmed at that

in saying that audits are not going to be done; we still have a fair number with

federal funding. There's federal programming involved so they do external audits

anyway. It was a cost-saving in that we were able to reduce and just do the one

versus what was there previously.

MR. PETTEN:

The Revenue line there, could you explain what that is? What's included in that

revenue?

MR. HAWKINS:

It went from $200,000 to $700,000. There's a $510,000 differential. That's an

increase due to funding that was returned from a previous year for community

partnership groups. We just picked up that funding when they transferred

through. That's the $510,000 that's there.

MR. PETTEN:

When you say community partnership groups, what groups would you be referring

to?

MR. HAWKINS:

Do we have a specific one? We have the spinal cord?

I can

give you a breakdown on that one. The provincial revenue includes: reimbursement

from the Nunatsiavut Government for AB delivery of $66K; unspent 2016-17 grant

funding from organizations such as Visions of $16K; (inaudible) and place $22K;

Murphy Centre $34K; Marine Resource $34K; MUN $75K; Spinal Cord Injury

Association $35K, and there are some other smaller ones.

MR. PETTEN:

That was funding they never

used? Is that correct?

MR. HAWKINS:

Correct. That was not used

so it was returned to us.

MR. PETTEN:

Is there any way we can get

that list?

MR. HAWKINS:

Absolutely.

MR. PETTEN:

1.2.03, Program Development

And Planning. There was an increase in Salaries by $200,000-plus. What were the

increase in positions here? Because I notice it's dropped down again this year.

MR. HAWKINS:

That's through the

attrition, the retirement continuance costs of personnel moving out. That was

part of the attrition retirement piece we have to pay out in severance and that

sort of thing. So it is extra costs involved.

MR. PETTEN:

How many positions were

involved there?

MR. HAWKINS:

Positions that we had there

– we have 16 there now. I'm not so sure.

OFFICIAL:

There are three.

MR. HAWKINS:

There are three positions.

OFFICIAL:

Three positions that were

tied up with severance.

MR. HAWKINS:

There were three positions

with the severance.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

attrition plan; speaking of attrition, what are your numbers this year in

attrition from last year to this year?

MR. HAWKINS:

Specifically, in what area?

MR. PETTEN:

I guess within the

department.

MR. HAWKINS:

Well, the department is

fairly large as you know and we've had positions over a number of years that

we've looked at through attrition. For 2018-2019, through our attrition we're

looking probably at around 13 positions. That's throughout the entire

department.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

Grants

and Subsidies, what groups or organizations receive these?

MR. HAWKINS:

That would be grants –

Newfoundland and Labrador Association for Community Living would be one; the

Rotary Club of Exploits. That would be three of them.

This is

a very small grant and subsidy area, and maybe because of where ministers

changed partway through the year there was not a big uptake on that. Again, it's

a very, very small grant. So that would have been the three that got it in the

last year.

MR. PETTEN:

A lot of these groups didn't

apply last year? Is that what happened –?

MR. HAWKINS:

No, actually – it depends on

if there's a special project that's out there, a small project that someone may

want to avail of for a particular service, then they would certainly have the

ability to apply under that small grant.

MR. PETTEN:

2.1.01; under the Salaries

line there was an increase in the revised but now it's back down by $1.7 million

this year.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah. Right there, that's

where we capture the 15 positions that we have transferred out to Health and

Community Services. You will find that adjustment there within the salary piece.

So that captures those 15 positions.

MR. PETTEN:

When you say for community

services, where exactly are –

MR. HAWKINS:

Health and Community

Services.

MR. PETTEN:

Health and Community

Services, sorry. I'm partially deaf, too.

Will

there be any impacts as a result of this, Minister?

MR. HAWKINS:

No. The only impacts that we

feel are going to be positive impacts because, as I said, it will probably

eliminate some of the confusion that sometimes exist when clients are applying

for medical transportation, and at least now it will be streamlined. It's under

one department. So I think there would be significant improvement in the

services that will be provided.

Again,

like I said, it's no reduction in staff. It's just a matter of more – getting in

line with almost like a one-stop shop when it comes to providing these services.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

3.1.01,

under Salaries there's almost $100,000 more than last year. Are there extra

positions, or what ….

MR. HAWKINS:

That is attributed to an increase due to a senior policy development position we

have there. It is responsible for after-hours services, emergencies, social

services charge. It's charged to income support, but funding for this position

was not moved from the policy division. So we're picking up the cost of the

senior policy development position.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

Allowances and Assistance, a $3.6 million reduction.

MR. HAWKINS:

Allowances and Assistance, 09, a decrease again. Another one of the moves that

we've made. We've moved our shelter funding to Newfoundland and Labrador Housing

Corp. Again, we feel that it's probably the best place where that should be.

Anything having to do with emergency shelter, shelter funding and that sort of

thing, it certainly would make more sense for that to be in the Newfoundland and

Labrador Housing Corp. so they can better manage. So what we have basically done

is we've decreased our budget and we have transferred that funding to

Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corp.

MR. PETTEN:

Were there positions that

went with this?

MR. HAWKINS:

No positions went with that.

Just the money.

MR. PETTEN:

Just the money. There is no

concern on the delivery of service, changing them from one department to

another, but no –

MR. HAWKINS:

No, we just feel that was

the right thing to do. We feel it will improve efficiencies and improve the

ability to be able to properly manage shelters of all types. Certainly,

Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corp. is already providing housing and it

would make sense for that to be under their purview versus Advanced Education,

Skills and Labour dealing with housing.

MR. PETTEN:

This amount is the same now

over in the Housing Corp.? The amount is still $3.6 million?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yes, $3.6 million is what

went to them to provide that shelter.

MR. PETTEN:

What about the employees who

administered this program in the department? Did they move to another

department, or what happened to the employees?

MR. HAWKINS:

Do you want to answer that

one for me, please?

MS. DOOLING:

The employees that managed this when it was with Advanced Education, Skills and

Labour, this was just a small part of their job. We did a workload analysis

prior to transferring the funding over to Newfoundland and Labrador Housing.

While no positions transferred over, the Housing Corporation had positions

available that could handle this work once it was transferred.

The

individuals in the Department of Advanced Education, Skills and Labour stayed

where they were. They continued to work on other components of the income

support file, but the housing is transferred over now to the Housing Corporation

and they have positions that will carry out the work.

We have

an implementation and transition plan. We'll work with them through the

transition to make sure there's a smooth transition of the emergency services

over to the Housing Corporation.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Mr. Petten.

Ms.

Michael, nice to see you again this evening.

MS. MICHAEL:

The second time today.

CHAIR:

Yeah.

MS. MICHAEL:

A long day.

MR. HAWKINS:

Long for punishment.

MS. MICHAEL:

Yes.

CHAIR:

Ms. Michael, thank you.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Chair.

I would

like to ask a question actually, exactly where you were just now in answering

Mr. Petten. I know this emergency money – because sometimes my assistant has to,

at midnight, be looking for emergency shelter. Marianne always knew exactly

where to call and where to go. What happens with the transition for somebody

like her who's doing her job?

MR. HAWKINS:

The transition; again, like

I said, I firmly believe there will be significant improvement for that because

at least now we know where to contact. That information will be out, the

marketing will be done and Newfoundland and Labrador Housing will provide that,

making sure there are no gaps within that transfer.

That's

a piece of work they will continue to do and we'll continue to monitor as well.

The last thing we want is if there's an emergency situation, someone not knowing

where they have to contact. That information will be out and will be distributed

to our clients and to anyone that's been availing of these services.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay.

I would

suggest I think constituency assistants really need to know.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay. Thank you very much.

totally agree with what you're doing. It's the same way with the other piece

that you're putting over to NLHC as well. It makes all the sense in the world

that's where the money should be – or no, the travel money under medical, that

just makes all the sense in the world. I'm just thinking through Marianne's

experience. I know the many times that she's had to avail of that for

constituents.

I'd

like to come back. I usually don't. It's only if something I want to ask hasn't

been covered.

2.1.01,

under Transportation and Communications there is a change there. The budget for

last year was $832,000, the revision was $681,300 and now the Estimate for this

year is $766,200, so just a brief explanation, Minister, of all of those

variations.

MR. HAWKINS:

Thanks. That's a good

question.

A lot

of last year we put an emphasis on looking at discretionary travel. Any areas

that we found discretionary we tried to avoid. We did a fair amount of video

conferencing as well, versus travelling and, of course, we did a lot of

conference calls. Those were just some of the areas we cut.

One of

the other points in that Transportation and Communications area was that we

found the cost of postage was down. That's obvious because if you do more

electronic communication, then you're going to reduce that. What we've basically

done is we've adjusted slightly up but significantly less than budget of

2017-18.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay. Thank you very much.

Under

Purchased Services there's also a bit of variation here. It's not a lot but it

was $367,800 budgeted, $321,600 revision and then still down $348,700 in this

year's Estimate.

MR. HAWKINS:

This, again, was

interesting. Our copying costs came in less than what we had anticipated. There

was a fair difference there, actually, in the copying. We've just made a slight

adjustment going forward in 2018-2019 but, surprisingly, that was one of the

areas that we had less cost. Some of the other was attributed to – our business

insurance cost was a little bit lower than we anticipated.

MS. MICHAEL:

Would the copying there be

copying of information handouts for clients, that kind of thing?

MR. HAWKINS:

Documents.

MS. MICHAEL:

Documents, right.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

I just

want to check backwards and see was there anything else back there. No, I think

that's okay – wait now, no, I'm going the wrong way.

It's

not a big thing but 1.2.03.

MR. HAWKINS:

1.2.03. Okay.

MS. MICHAEL:

Under Professional Services

$33,800 was budgeted, the revision was $20,500 and now $19,800. First of all,

what would those professional services be and why the change?

MR. HAWKINS:

I think that one would relate to the income support Appeal Board. That would be

per diems that would have been paid out to the Appeal Board. There's a reduction

there for '17-'18 in the per diems paid out.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay. Thank you very much.

I think

we've taken care of 3.1.01. Under federal revenue which is 01 –

MR. HAWKINS:

Which tab?

MS. MICHAEL:

Oh, I'm sorry, 3.1.01.

MR. HAWKINS:

Okay, Income Assistance.

MS. MICHAEL:

Under federal revenue I'm just curious, what was that $45,000 budgeted? Nothing

seemed to happen with that.

MR. HAWKINS:

That's the agreement we had with the Innu. Of course, all of the services now

have been devolved to the Innu Nation.

MS. MICHAEL:

Right.

MR. HAWKINS:

The federal funding will be going to them versus us having to supply the

services and then charge out. That's completely devolved to the Innu Nation now.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay. Thank you.

The

provincial revenue is $5.5 million and this year keeping $5.5 million, but there

was $500,000 unspent or actually revised in '17-'18.

MR. HAWKINS:

We sort of try to determine what the collection rates are going to be. We had

budgeted $5.5 million for collections. Actually, our collections were down and

so there's a discrepancy of about $500,000 in our collections. We've again

conservatively estimated our collections will run about $5.5 million. That was

what happened there, some of our collections are down in that last year.

MS. MICHAEL:

Right, but doing the zero-based budgeting it looks like you should keep the

$500,000.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yes.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay. Thank you.

3.1.02,

the National Child Benefit Reinvestment; I'm curious about the $60,000

difference.

MR. HAWKINS:

It's interesting because you probably would think that income support would be

increasing, but the number of families with children in receipt of income

support continues to decrease. This year, we have 28 fewer than we had one year

ago, which I guess maybe is positive. In addition, a number of families with

children under the age 12 that are eligible for child care has decreased over an

11-year period from 6,013 in 2006 to 3,777 in 2017.

MS. MICHAEL:

So is it more the numbers of

children that's decreasing or the numbers of families?

MR. HAWKINS:

Well, we all know what's

happening in families.

MS. MICHAEL:

Yes.

MR. HAWKINS:

The number of children are

obviously decreasing.

MS. MICHAEL:

Right.

MR. HAWKINS:

We see that in our schools.

We see it in our College of the North Atlantic. We see it in our Memorial

University and we see it in our private training institution. If we look at,

historically, over the last three years, we're averaging roughly about 10 per

cent reduction in enrollments. That's simply – I shouldn't say simply, but it's

primarily because of the fact that we're having less and less graduates that are

coming out of high school. So all of that adds to the fact that there are less

and less services in this area required.

MS. MICHAEL:

Right.

Well,

in the next section, 3.1.03, I'm suspecting that's one of the reasons there as

well, fewer children –

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah.

MS. MICHAEL:

– because under Allowance

and Assistance in particular is what I'm looking at.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah.

MS. MICHAEL:

It's gone down there, so I'm

assuming –

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah, the same.

MS. MICHAEL:

– the numbers are going

down.

MR. HAWKINS:

Ms. Michael, in the past

five years, we've gone from an average of 387 clients per month to an average of

148 clients.

MS. MICHAEL:

That's a jump, holy cow.

MR. HAWKINS:

In 2017-2018.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Ms. Michaels.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay.

Thank

you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIR:

Mr. Petten.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3.2.01

MR. HAWKINS:

3.2.01, let's go back up,

Income Assistance.

MR. PETTEN:

The next page.

There's

an increase in Salaries there of $185,000 from last year's budgeted amount, but

then it's gone back down to a little over that again for this year. What's the

fluctuation there?

MR. HAWKINS:

I think I might have

referenced that earlier, Mr. Petten. It's due to a senior policy development

position that's there, if I'm on the right one you're on, 3.1.01.

MR. PETTEN:

No, 3.2.01.

MR. HAWKINS:

3.2.01, I'm sorry, my

apologizes.

MR. PETTEN:

I'll forgive you.

MR. HAWKINS:

It's been a long day.

MR. PETTEN:

I know.

MR. HAWKINS:

I'm not getting any younger

either.

Okay,

so 3.2.01 and you're talking about the reduction there, that again is our

management restructuring and I think it probably equates to four positions.

That, again, is through some of the salary continuance costs related to the

management restructuring.

MR. PETTEN:

It went up by $185,000 and

now it's dropped down.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yes, because we would have

had attrition costs with regard to the management restructuring. You either

would have had severance or salary continuation or there are a couple of other

areas.

MR. PETTEN:

What were those positions?

Do you have any idea what they were or what their titles were?

MR. HAWKINS:

I don't have that list with

me but if you want, we can provide that to you.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay, thanks.

Purchased Services, what is included in this in this division?

MR. HAWKINS:

Purchased Services, that

basically would be copying, copying machine, copier; printing services is

basically what that would be. We had really lower than anticipated cost for that

versus print material.

MR. PETTEN:

Subhead 3.2.02, under

Allowances and Assistance, can you advise what allowances and assistances are

included in this line?

MR. HAWKINS:

Allowances and Assistance?

MR. PETTEN:

Yeah.

MR. HAWKINS:

So the question is what's

the differential there?

MR. PETTEN:

Yeah, I guess, that's a

two-part question: What's the differential, why the drop and what is included in

those Allowances and Assistance?

MR. HAWKINS:

So what we have in that is

funding is provided for employment development services. Also, we have the ABE

placement supports and, of course, a lot of that then becomes federal funding. I

think it's probably up to may be 90 per cent federal funding matching for that.

That would be included in the Allowances and Assistance.

MR. PETTEN:

Why was there a drop in the

revised amount?

MR. HAWKINS:

The demand for the services

wasn't there and we feel now, going forward in 2018-2019, to make sure that we

capture any increase in demand, we felt it was prudent for us to include the

same budget for 2018-19 as we had budgeted for 2017-2018 but, as I said, the

intake in the revised in '17-'18 just wasn't there but, again, we don't know

what will happen in 2018-2019.

MR. PETTEN:

Under Grants and Subsidies,

who receives these and what are they for?

MR. HAWKINS:

Well, under the Grants and

Subsidies, you would find that's where our Linkages program would be. You'd also

find Newfoundland and Labrador works. JobsNL would be included in that. You'd

also find the Employment Development Supports would be there and there is some

funding as well that we have with the Poverty Reduction Strategy funding that we

make available and that includes a community collaboration facilitator for the

Western and Central regions, and we also do work with the transition to work

program, which is a program that originally started in Corner Brook and Grand

Falls-Windsor, and now I think this year we might have done Marystown and some

other areas as well. So that's a transition to work program that would be

covered under these Grants and Subsidies.

MR. PETTEN:

Could we get a list of those

recipients of those Grants and Subsidies? Yeah.

So what

was the reason for the drop of $334,000?

MR. HAWKINS:

What was the question?

MR. PETTEN:

Grants and Subsidies, there

was a reduction from last year.

MR. HAWKINS:

Well, I think I mentioned

that it was a lower than anticipated uptake in the funding for the employment

transitions. The requests didn't come in for that. So what I've done now is

budgeted as if we will be back to 2017-2018 budget levels, just to make sure we

are covered, in case there is an increase in the intake.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

You

don't have the numbers of people compared year over year?

MR. HAWKINS:

I think we do, somewhere. I

thought I saw it somewhere.

OFFICIAL:

(Inaudible.)

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah.

MR. PETTEN:

3.2.03, Professional

Services, that's a big increase there.

MR. HAWKINS:

Okay. That's a significant

increase. It's an upgrade to the system. We're getting into a performance

measurement strategy as we get into the new Labour Market Development Agreement.

We're trying to bring our system online so we have a proper reporting system.

We have

to be compliant with the federal government in providing information to access

as we move into this new Labour Market Development Agreement. There would

certainly be upgrades that we have to make to our system.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

Under

Allowances and Assistance, what's included in this? I noticed that, too, was a

$6.4-million increase as well.

MR. HAWKINS:

In Allowances and Assistance? The significant amount of funding would be,

obviously, in our Skills Development Program – that's where our JCP program

comes in – our Self-Employment Assistance Program and apprenticeship supports.

There's some money there for the work, health and safety commission as well but,

primarily, that's our programming funding for these departments.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

Under

the federal revenue line there's an increase over what's budgeted this year over

last year of $7 million.

MR. HAWKINS:

That's the new Labour Market Development Agreement.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

MR. HAWKINS:

I think when I spoke earlier

I said over the next six years it's roughly about another $80 million that will

be going into Labour Market Development Agreement as well as our Workforce

Development Agreement. This is where you would capture that increase in the

federal funding that's coming in. We're seeing an increase in that funding.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

3.2.04, Purchased Services, a substantial increase of $600,000.

MR. HAWKINS:

Again, that's tied to the Workforce Development Agreement. There are two

agreements. There's the Labour Market Development Agreement and there's a new

Workforce Development Agreement.

The

same scenario; the performance measurement support system that is required in

order for us to be able to share information with the federal government will be

captured in there. We will be investing that money into the system in order for

us to be compliant and be able to provide the information that the federal

government needs so that we can actually share with the federal government, they

can share information with us and we can share our information with them, as

well. That's where that cost will be.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Mr. Petten and Minister.

Ms.

Michael.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, if we could just come back 3.2.03.

MR. HAWKINS:

3.2.03, okay.

MS. MICHAEL:

I think that's where I want to go. Yes, I think so. You may have answered this,

I'm not sure, but if I missed it, I apologize. Under the Grants and Subsidies,

what are those Grants and Subsidies related to and why the difference?

MR. HAWKINS:

Okay.

I guess

I'll start, first of all, with what the Grants and Subsidies are for. There's

roughly about $4 million there that's attached to the Labour Market

Partnerships; the Employment Assistance Services, EAS services, would come out

of that; wage subsidies would also be there; our Job Creation program; and

Self-Employment Assistance. There's a fair amount of programming into those

grants and those subsidies.

MS. MICHAEL:

Right. Thank you.

They're

all the EI-eligible programs, right?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay. Thank you very much.

I meant

to say this earlier on but can we assume that we are going to be able to have

your binder?

MR. HAWKINS:

Oh, absolutely.

MS. MICHAEL:

Yes, right. So then there will be a lot of details in the binder that we don't

need to get you to go through.

Going

back to 3.2.02, Mr. Petten did ask for the number of recipients of the Grants

and Subsidies. I'm assuming you would have the individual recipients, as well as

agency lists, et cetera, for those programs.

MR. HAWKINS:

I'm saying yes because we have a fair number of groups that will, obviously,

avail of the Linkages program which is a very important program for us.

MS. MICHAEL:

It is, yeah.

MR. HAWKINS:

We would have all that information on what groups and organizations would be

getting these Grants and Subsidies.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay. Thank you very much.

I'm

just going to make sure there is nothing else under 3.2.03 that I want to ask.

No, I think they're all done.

Under

3.2.04 Mr. Petten asked about the Purchased Services. The Allowances and

Assistance, I can't remember if Barry asked that or not.

MR. PETTEN:

(Inaudible.)

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay.

The

Allowances and Assistance, again, there's a variance last year between the

budget and the revision, and a variance upward this year between the Estimate

and last year's budget.

MR. HAWKINS:

Ms. Michael, we did some

re-profiling, as well, in that particular section. Again, the allowances for

that transitions to work program, we re-profiled that to Grants and Subsidies.

We made that sort of shift, so that's a re-profiling within the department.

MS. MICHAEL:

With the next line?

MR. HAWKINS:

The Allowances, we'll pick

it up as well within the – Bren, what line did we go to on that one?

MR. HANLON:

Grants and Subsidies.

MR. HAWKINS:

It went to Grants and

Subsidies.

MS. MICHAEL:

So the next line underneath?

MR. HAWKINS:

The next line.

MS. MICHAEL:

Yes, okay.

There's

not a complete correlation though, is there?

MR. HAWKINS:

There might not be a

complete total correlation but if that is a difference then we've added

something else there.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay.

MR. HAWKINS:

And we have.

MS. MICHAEL:

Yeah, because the revision

last year was $874,700 and this year the estimate is only $5,175,600. I'm

curious about the revised number last year that was quite a revision of

$874,700.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah. Again, the additional

funding is provided under the LMTA, the Labour Market Transfer Agreement. There

was $779,000 additional funding that we got there which was attributed to that.

MS. MICHAEL:

Yes.

MR. HAWKINS:

The transition to work

program funding re-profiled from Allowances – there was about $96,000 that was

re-profiled.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay.

MR. HAWKINS:

It's the additional funding

provided under the Labour Market Transfer Agreement.

MS. MICHAEL:

Why is it back down to

$5,175,000 this year?

MR. HAWKINS:

The additional Workforce

Development Agreement funding for 2018-2019 – there's $570,000. I'm not sure if

I'm getting at what you're looking for as the rationale.

There's

offset by a decrease of $500,000 related to the fisheries support worker funding

transferred to the Department of Fisheries and Land Resources. We transferred

out to them $500,000. So when a fish plant closes, we – they were actually

funding that.

MS. MICHAEL:

Right.

MR. HAWKINS:

So what we did, we decided

we would transfer $500,000 so they would be able to cover that from the

Fisheries and Land Resources.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay. That explains that

discrepancy. Thank you.

You've

already explained the federal revenue because it's gone up.

Okay,

thank you.

3.2.05,

it looks like this program is gone. Are all the workers being taken care of

somewhere else?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yes. What happened in this

program, the target initiative for older workers is phased out and now will be

included under the new workforce development, which will primarily be looking at

persons with disabilities, target initiatives for older workers, job creation

and indigenous people. So that becomes a separate Workforce Development

Agreement, and that's now captured under that agreement with additional funding.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay. So it's a separate

agreement under that agreement.

MR. HAWKINS:

Correct. What we now have is

the Labour Market Development Agreement and the Workforce Development Agreement.

So we have two separate agreements.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay, got it.

Thank

you very much.

3.2.06,

this is Employment Assistance Programs for Persons with Disabilities. This

program continues, does it? It looks like it does.

MR. HAWKINS:

If I'm understanding; this will be a cost-shared agreement.

MS. MICHAEL:

Right.

MR. HAWKINS:

The funding is provided for

training services, program support, employment, job trainers, PRS initiatives.

That's a shared responsibility from the federal and provincial government. That

is the Employment Assistance Programs for Persons with Disabilities.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay. It looks like new

money has been put into this program under the agreement, because under federal

revenue –

MR. HAWKINS:

No.

MS. MICHAEL:

No? It went up by $478,400.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah, okay. Let me just look at my notes there.

There

is additional revenue provided under the Workforce Development. There's about

$399,000 that came out of that. So we did put money in there from that

agreement.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay.

MR. HAWKINS:

There's about $400,000 into

there.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay.

Then

going back up to the Allowances and Assistance, I guess last year there just

wasn't as big an uptake.

MR. HAWKINS:

Right.

MS. MICHAEL:

And this year you have

increased, though, based on a real expectation, I assume.

MR. HAWKINS:

Again, sometimes it's your

best guess as to what might happen or might not happen when you go through the

budgeting process. In this particular case, we did make provisions for a

training services program and there was less demand than was anticipated.

MS. MICHAEL:

Right.

MR. HAWKINS:

Again, it all depends. For

next year we've just gone back – or for this year coming, in 2018-2019, it's

probably a realistic budget that we feel should cover it. We don't want to be

shortchanged by anybody, obviously.

MS. MICHAEL:

Right. Thank you.

I only

have 27 seconds, so.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Ms. Michael.

Mr.

Petten.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want

to go back to 3.2.04 for a quick question. Under Allowances and Assistance, I

want to know how many people availed of this program this year compared to 2016.

This past year, I should say.

MR. HAWKINS:

We don't have that number. We can certainly provide you with the number of

people that took advantage of that. I don't like using the word took advantage –

the number of people who availed of that program. We can get that number.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you.

3.2.07,

what types of allowances and assistance would be included here?

MR. HAWKINS:

These are basically your

Youth and Student Services. These would be your student summer employment jobs.

MR. PETTEN:

Post-secondary and all

summer students?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yes, this is your summer

student program.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

So last

year this was reduced?

MR. HAWKINS:

Correct.

MR. PETTEN:

Now this year it's back up

again?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yes. I'll tell you how that

worked out.

2018-2019, $240,000 of the $542,000 for the GRI reduction under the Youth and

Student Services budget was applied to the Student Summer Employment Program. So

that would have really calculated to about 150 fewer summer jobs.

What

we've basically done this year is now we've put in what's called a Student

Mentorship Program, which is going to give us an additional 100 jobs. That will

be funded through the federal funding and will be in areas of aquaculture,

agriculture, oil and gas and forestry. There are 50 new mentorship jobs for

students that will be available.

And I'm

not sure – when are the applications going out for that? Some time in April?

OFFICIAL:

This week.

MR. HAWKINS:

This week?

Applications will be going out for those specific industry sector-related summer

jobs this week.

MR. PETTEN:

On the Grants and Subsidies

line, what's the reason for the fluctuations there?

MR. HAWKINS:

Well sometimes, believe it

or not, you put out a budget and there are varying reasons, sometimes the

Student Summer Employment projects do not materialize. Obviously, if they don't

materialize we don't put the funding at it for the employers.

There

was an adjustment last summer. There were savings due to lower than anticipated

uptake in the Student Summer Employment projects.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

4.1.01,

what investments have been made to – under Salaries, there's a fluctuation of

almost $200,000.

MR. HAWKINS:

Okay. I think that probably

includes about 13 positions. Again, part of some of the costing there – as you

know, I mentioned in my

preamble as well, we have a new office, the Atlantic

Workforce Partnership project, and that is cost shared between all four Atlantic

provinces on a 30-30-30-10 basis. Some of costs you see there is offsetting the

two positions that are going to be under the Atlantic Workforce Partnership. So

there's some cost sharing that's involved there. We have to budget it in.

MR. PETTEN:

Grants and Subsidies, again

there's a lot of fluctuation in those as well. It's a lot – that's $700,000

less?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yes.

We put

in Grants and Subsidies for 2017-2018 developing a website and the savings that

you see is related to lower than anticipated cost for the development of the

website, LMI forum, request for proposals and foreign qualification carry

forward. So there was some money, there was about $150,000 there in '18-'19. So

that's why you'll see a variation in the amount.

For

2018-19, it's roughly down about $705,000, for the foreign qualification

recognition funding is now moved out of the Workforce Development and

Productivity Secretariat and is now moved into the Office of Immigration, so

you'll see that change. So it's out of there and into Office of Immigration.

MR. PETTEN:

Federal revenue, that's

dropped as well, $405,000, but it also went down $150,000 from the last year's

budget to revised.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yes, again, the $150,000

differential was the lower federal funding revenue due to savings that we found

under the Foreign Qualifications program and the differential now going into

revenue for 2018-2019 again is related to the moving of the funding from this

section or department into the Immigration department.

MR. PETTEN:

4.1.02, the Salaries line,

there's a drop from last year and there's an increase this year.

MR. HAWKINS:

Bren could probably explain

that, but, basically, we did some budget rightsizing in the salary. I think it

was probably about $35,000 that we – there was some salary budget rightsizing in

that.

The

other piece we dealt with was there was salary savings as a result of two new

positions that we're going to be adding to the – and I think they came on in

August. Was it August they came on? So a part of the year and next year then we

will take up the full complement because we feel with the number of applications

coming in, we wanted to try to increase some efficiencies in that area. So we've

added two new positions in the Budget

2017 .

Bren, I

don't know if you want to – that's okay.

MR. PETTEN:

Grants and Subsidies, (inaudible) what these are and who received them? There's

a fair increase there too.

MR. HAWKINS:

Again, I can answer the questions for the savings piece there.

That

was due to consolidation of the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador websites

into: a rare find, so there was some

savings in that area. The increased cost for 2018-19 is a transfer of funding

for the foreign qualification Workforce Development Secretariat. There's

$180,000 in that transfer that came out of one that we just did into this one.

a Second Language that would be included in that and we also have some small

amount of funding in there for Sharing Our Cultures annual event, and it's a

small amount.

MR. PETTEN:

Provincial revenue line there, what accounts for this amount? Where does this

go?

MR. HAWKINS:

The provincial funding there is a fee structure. There is revenue – every time

you have a provincial nominee, we go through a Provincial Nominee Program,

there's an application process. So there would be a cost that would be incurred

for the filing of those application pieces. So there would be a small revenue

stream – that's where that funding would come from for that.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Mr. Petten.

Ms.

Michael?

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I have a couple of non-line item questions but related to this

section

that we've just been dealing with, Immigration and Multiculturalism.

How

many people came in under the various streams in the Provincial Nominee Program

in 2017?

MR. HAWKINS:

Okay, I think I have that.

2017, total newcomers to Newfoundland and Labrador were 1,172. That's inclusive

of principal applicants under the Provincial Nominee Program and the Atlantic

Immigration Pilot Program and their family members as well as refugees; 2017 saw

a 25 per cent increase in principal applicants over 2016. So we're now finding

the highest number of applicants ever supported provincially.

Right

now, these numbers are encouraging and, again, we're looking at certainly trying

to strive to reach the targets that we've set by 2022.

If I

can just take a moment or two, the Atlantic Immigration Program which basically

came in March of 2017, there's a bit of education that has to happen and we need

some advocacy on that because, again, all these federally supported regulations

for immigration, we have to engage employers. So in the Atlantic, we have to try

to encourage more of our employers to get involved in the Atlantic pilot

program.

Some of

the other provinces are finding a greater success by using their temporary

foreign workers and for some reason we, in Newfoundland and Labrador, are not

targeting our temporary foreign workers. So that's going to be an exercise for

us this year, going forward, to concentrate on that because under the Atlantic

Immigration Program, we can move the applications through fairly quickly and

more efficiently than under the Provincial Nominee Program, which by the time it

gets from filing the application to the end, it's probably about 16 months,

versus we can probably try to get them through now within four, five and six

months, which cuts a tremendous amount of time and, certainly, it would be

advantageous for us to sort of put a bit of a focus on the Atlantic pilot

program.

MS. MICHAEL:

How many came in under that

program?

MR. HAWKINS:

Under them separately?

MS. MICHAEL:

Yes, I'd like to (inaudible)

MR. HAWKINS:

I don't know if I have my

numbers exactly on that, I'm trying to remember now. The last time we had –

there were somewhere like a 130-plus? I thought it was a 132 at one time under

the Atlantic pilot.

MS. LANGOR:

(Inaudible) 285 came in

under the Atlantic Immigration Pilot.

MR. HAWKINS:

(Inaudible) for the record.

MS. LANGOR:

Sure.

2017, there were 285 that actually came in, principal applicants, under the

Atlantic Immigration Pilot and 544 under the Provincial Nominee Program.

MS. MICHAEL:

544, okay.

MS. LANGOR:

So that would just be

(inaudible), in addition to that you would have your family members and refugees

would be included in our total to bring us to 1,172.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay.

Minister, under the Provincial Nominee Program, will your binder have the

breakdown of the number of skilled workers, international graduates and the

express entry? If you do it –

MR. HAWKINS:

No.

MS. MICHAEL:

No.

MR. HAWKINS:

No, my binder won't have

that detail, Ms. Michael, but I'd be more than glad to provide that.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you.

MR. HAWKINS:

Again, because I think what

we're seeing is encouraging and , I

know one of the focuses that we're putting on is looking at our international

graduate students. Hopefully we will eventually get the federal okay on us

putting together our entrepreneur program.

That's

something we're aggressively working toward but I'm optimistic. The numbers

we're seeing are encouraging. We'll continue to do that and we certainly solicit

support from Opposition Members as well as we work to get those numbers. We'll

certainly be able to provide that for you.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you.

Do you

have the numbers of those who became permanent residents in '17-'18?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah, we should have that as

well.

MS. LANGOR:

There were 1,172 permanent

residents in 2017.

MS. MICHAEL:

New ones?

MS. LANGOR:

Yes.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay.

What

about retention statistics, Minister?

MR. HAWKINS:

We are doing quite well,

actually, with retention. Right now we're running at about 55-56 per cent for

retention. It's encouraging. Our highest family class retention is running at

about 76 per cent.

Newfoundland and Labrador, right now, has the second highest retention rate in

Atlantic Canada; we're second to only Nova Scotia. As I said, in our family

class, Newfoundland and Labrador has the highest retention rate at 76 per cent.

I can

only think that's hopefully going to get better. I think we just, over the

weekend, engaged Municipalities Newfoundland and Labrador in partnership to put

together a welcoming community tool kit which hopefully will be able to address

some of the challenges that particularly – not necessarily the applicant because

the applicant usually is the one that's working – family members that are

attached, sometimes they find challenges within communities.

We have

to try to make it easier for these additional family members to integrate within

the communities. We're going to be aggressively working with Municipalities

Newfoundland and Labrador to ensure that we are providing every possible service

that we can to make it easier for them to transition within the community,

become a part of the community and contribute to the community.

MS. MICHAEL:

language training be a part of that?

MR. HAWKINS:

training is very important for us. We've engaged in partnership with Memorial

and we've made funding available to the Association for New Canadians as well.

language because, again, that becomes a real challenge.

Yeah,

we are certainly making that funding available for partners.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay. Thank you.

I'm

going back to line items now; 4.1.03.

MR. HAWKINS:

03?

MS. MICHAEL:

Labour Relations.

MR. HAWKINS:

Okay.

MS. MICHAEL:

I'm going to use my

intelligence with regard to the Salaries line. I don't have a lot of questions

here, actually, but under Supplies it was $6,400 last year budgeted and revised,

and this year down to $3,800. What would that have covered, the Supplies in that

line?

MR. HAWKINS:

That's just basically

supplies running the offices. As we've done with many departments or with many

lines within our department, we've asked for a zero-based budgeting – for you to

give us the accurate to, as much as possible, under the zero-based budgeting.

That would certainly be an exercise there. They decided we can shave a couple

thousand from our Supplies.

MS. MICHAEL:

Right. Thank you very much.

Those

are all the questions I have for that section.

4.1.04,

Standing Fish Price Setting Panel.

MR. HAWKINS:

Right.

MS. MICHAEL:

Again, I'm just curious

about the drop there in Professional Services. Was that just rightsizing also or

zero-based budgeting?

MR. HAWKINS:

Again, that was another

departmental zero-based review. What they did is they based it on the recent

expenditures they had for the panel. They felt they could live within that

reduction in the budget there.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay. Thank you.

I only

have 30 seconds so I'll pass it back.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Ms. Michael.

Mr.

Petten.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

A quick

question – I don't know if Ms. Michael asked it or not. On 4.1.03, there's some

fluctuation with the Salaries. Not a lot, but can you explain that?

MR. HAWKINS:

I'm sorry, I didn't get

that.

MR. PETTEN:

Salaries.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah.

MR. PETTEN:

On 4.1.03 there's some

fluctuation in Salaries.

MR. HAWKINS:

Basically, that's budgetary

rightsizing based on requirements that we feel for '18-'19. The original budget

was higher than required for the full staff complement so what we've basically

done is made that adjustment.

MR. PETTEN:

You're saying rightsizing.

There was more money there than what's required for the salary budget.

MR. HAWKINS:

We just reduced the amount.

Obviously there was $23,400 from the original budget and that was not required

in '18-'19. So if it wasn't required in '17-'18, it's not going to be required

in '18-'19.

MR. PETTEN:

No staff changes either?

MR. HAWKINS:

No.

MR. PETTEN:

4.1.05.

MR. HAWKINS:

4.1.05.

MR. PETTEN:

A $70,000 reduction in

Salaries.

MR. HAWKINS:

Labour Standards?

MR. PETTEN:

Yes.

MR. HAWKINS:

What was the question?

MR. PETTEN:

Salaries there is down by

$70,000?

MR. HAWKINS:

Okay.

In that

year, between '17-'18 Budget and Revised, there was a partial year vacancy in a

policy position in the department. You would see the savings there.

MR. PETTEN:

But it's still down this

year so is that position eliminated?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah and what we're

targeting on that is we anticipate attrition of one Labour Standards officer.

It's an attrition piece there.

MR. PETTEN:

Attrition.

One position is included in that?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah.

MR. PETTEN:

4.1.06, the Labour Relations

Board; how many employees are presently with the Labour Relations Board?

MR. HAWKINS:

The Labour Relations Board;

we would have a chairperson, secretary to the chairperson, chief executive

officer, a deputy CEO, two Labour Relations Board officers and a full-time clerk

typist III. That should be how many positions? One, two, three, four, five, six

– we'll say six positions.

MR. PETTEN:

Under Professional Services

what's included?

MR. HAWKINS:

Professional Services; I

guess that would be professional fees that would be paid to board members in

accordance with the Treasury Board policy for agencies, boards and commissions.

Their per diems would be included in that.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

Purchased Services has dropped by $20,000 from last year to this year.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah. That is money that was

provided for copiers, copying costs, miscellaneous repairs, printing,

advertising and rent. So they've reduced that. I guess the biggest portion, Mr.

Petten, is related to – the board has moved to a government-owned building,

which is part of our efficiency when looking at leasing. That certainly would

see some of the significant reduction in cost.

MR. PETTEN:

Thanks.

5.1.01,

Salaries; they're up from last year and been revised –

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah. That would certainly

be the new Atlantic Apprenticeship Harmonization Project, which is 100 per cent

federally funded. When I mentioned that in my

preamble, this is where you would

find that, within the Salaries.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

What

about in Transportation and Communications, a fairly substantial increase there

as well.

MR. HAWKINS:

That would be – as I said,

attached to that office the increase is primarily due to federally funding,

staff travel and communications.

think, if I remember correctly, it's probably about – in transitioning the

office, there was probably about 12, 13 trips that had to be made to make that

transition. Advisory committee meetings, there was an increase there. So the

real cost of moving that office would be included in that Transportation and

Communications; but, again, I just want to make sure that we fully understand

that this is 100 per cent federally funded.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

Supplies, the increase in supplies.

MR. HAWKINS:

The same; setting up the

office, standard office supplies. That certainly would be – the cost would be

incurred there.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

5.1.02,

the Grants and Subsidies line, there's a decrease of $500,000.

MR. HAWKINS:

Transportation and

Communications?

MR. PETTEN:

No, Grants and Subsidies.

MR. HAWKINS:

Grants and Subsidies?

MR. PETTEN:

Yeah.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yes. Basically, less

provincial funding required, and that's due to more of the ABE program was

funded under the federal LMDA program for 2017-2018. We were able to leverage

more federal funding and as a result of that we reduced the provincial

contribution. We were able to offset that almost, I think $500,000, close to

that. We're able to offset some of these costs. So it's federal dollars that

enable us to do that.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

The

revenue there; where's that coming from?

MR. HAWKINS:

Revenue on the provincial

piece there?

MR. PETTEN:

Yeah, Revenue - Provincial.

MR. HAWKINS:

That would relate to

registrations of private colleges.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

5.2.01.

MR. HAWKINS:

5.2.03.

MR. PETTEN:

MR. HAWKINS:

We're going back?

MR. PETTEN:

No.

MR. HAWKINS:

Oh, 5.2 is it?

MR. PETTEN:

Yeah.

MR. HAWKINS:

Sorry, I'm just like – I

need a break I think somewhere along the – do we have breaks in this thing here,

Mr. Chair, or are you just slave drive, just put it on through?

OFFICIAL:

(Inaudible.)

MR. HAWKINS:

I tell you, the temperature

in the room is about 500 degrees.

MR. PETTEN:

It's warm, yeah.

MR. HAWKINS:

Sorry, Mr. Petten, what was

the question?

MR. PETTEN:

I never asked you one yet.

MR. HAWKINS:

Oh, I'm sorry. I was trying

to get out of here.

MR. PETTEN:

I was waiting for you to get

to the section.

MR. HAWKINS:

Is there a hockey game on

tonight or anything?

MR. PETTEN:

Tomorrow night is a big

night.

Under

the Operating Grant, there's a decrease in the operating grant this year over

last. I guess that question there is going to be more like – I know what's

happening there. The reduction in Operating Grants, do you anticipate that that

will result in increasing fees for students? You can be sure the university will

make up the difference somewhere.

MR. HAWKINS:

No, these are basically fees

that we pay for seats at the Atlantic Veterinarian College.

MR. PETTEN:

No, no. No, you're on the

wrong section.

MR. HAWKINS:

Am I?

MR. PETTEN:

I'm over at Memorial

University now, 5.2.01.

MR. HAWKINS:

5.2.01. Okay.

MR. PETTEN:

Regular Operating Grant was

cut by nearly $8.7 million. My question is, I guess, the university will have to

find the difference, make up the difference. Will this not result in increased

fees to students in coming years?

MR. HAWKINS:

We don't determine where the

fees are going to be; the Board of Regents would make that decision. We

basically have been very, very clear as a government. We've increased the amount

for the tuition freeze. We increased it by $4 million again this year to offset

that.

Again,

our message has been clear; we want to enable a tuition freeze. As I said, I

can't speak on behalf of the Board of Regents, that's decisions they will have

to make. I'm assuming their budget will probably be coming down some time in

May.

As with

all of our agencies, boards and commissions, we've been very clear of that, not

only within our agencies, boards and commissions, but also within every

department within government. We've all had to look for ways in which we can

reduce, and we've been given targets. We've all worked through that and there

are no real surprises. We've done our projections since 2016, and we're trying

to work within the parameters we have.

As I

said before, we provide to Memorial an operating grant; 80 per cent of their

operating grant is provided by the province. We provide more funding in

operating than Nova Scotia, or New Brunswick, and really, almost as much as all

10 universities get in Nova Scotia.

So I

can't answer that question, with what they will do with their budget. That is

certainly an area they will have to look at, but we have been very clear in our

message to them that we have put measures in place to continue to enable a

tuition freeze.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Minister.

Thank

you, Mr. Petten.

Ms.

Michael.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, if we can go back to 5.1.02, Literacy and Institutional Services. I

think you may have answered this for Mr. Petten, but I'm not sure of the source

of the provincial revenue.

What is

the source of that provincial revenue, the $138,300?

MR. HAWKINS:

That's the private colleges. They have to –

MS. MICHAEL:

That's what I thought.

MR. HAWKINS:

– register with government, so that would be their fee.

MS. MICHAEL:

Yeah, I thought that's what it was. I just wanted to confirm that.

Thank

you very much.

Just a

couple of questions. How are things going with the Adult Literacy plan?

MR. HAWKINS:

Well, thank you for the question.

It's

going quite well. As you know, of course, we started the consultations. We have

completed them. I think there's still opportunity to do online submissions,

which we're getting some good response for online submissions. Then we will have

significant discussions as we move forward with an Adult Literacy plan that we

hopefully will have in place to have a report in – our target is 2019.

course, in that literacy plan there's a great opportunity for participation. We

need suggestions, we need ideas and we need to know how we want to move the

Adult Literacy plan forward. We all know there are some challenges, and part of

that – as well, of course, we have an opportunity to talk about the ABE program,

what individuals feel is working or may not be working.

So it's

a wide range of opportunities to have some discussions. We will continue to have

that over the next several months.

MS. MICHAEL:

And when in 2019 would you

hope to have the plan ready?

MR. HAWKINS:

We're looking at the spring

of 2019.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

ABE

students, do you have the numbers – I'm sure you do, but do you have them at

your fingertips, though, the numbers of students enrolled in private versus the

public college?

MR. HAWKINS:

Okay. Of course, there's no

public now.

MS. MICHAEL:

There's none at all now, is

there?

MR. HAWKINS:

They're all in private

colleges.

MS. MICHAEL:

They're all in private?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah. All the ABE would be

in private.

And I

don't – the numbers. Do I have that on a piece of paper there somewhere?

Okay.

Ms. Michael, I'll leave it to Candice, she has the numbers readily available

there.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay.

MS. ENNIS-WILLIAMS:

The total number of students to date for last fiscal was 1,879 students.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay. Do you have the

graduates' numbers as well?

MS. ENNIS-WILLIAMS:

I don't.

MS. MICHAEL:

You don't, okay. Well, if

you have them, maybe we could get them, please?

Besides

those who are enrolled, then knowing exactly how many students graduated would

be helpful information.

Thank

you very much.

I have

a few questions with regard to apprenticeship. I don't have any line questions.

I'm just going to have some general questions around apprenticeship.

Where

is the office located? Under 5.1.01, the Apprenticeship and Trades

Certification. Where is the office located?

MR. HAWKINS:

What number is it?

OFFICIAL:

5.1.01.

MR. HAWKINS:

5.1.01.

MS. MICHAEL:

Yeah. What I'm asking is not

on a line item.

MR. HAWKINS:

Okay, all right. Okay.

The new

apprenticeship?

MS. MICHAEL:

Yes, yeah.

MR. HAWKINS:

That's located here in this

building.

MS. MICHAEL:

Oh, in this building.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay, great.

Thank

you.

I just

have a few questions now. I think the others have been answered.

Under

Grants and Subsidies, in 5.1.01, what is included in the Grants and Subsidies

there? Does that include the government hiring apprenticeship program for

example?

MR. HAWKINS:

The Grants and Subsidies are for, like the youth apprenticeship supports,

distance delivery of apprenticeship, government hiring apprenticeship program

for approximately 80 placements provided to health care boards, school boards,

the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corp., Department of Transportation and

Works. So that would be the groups that would be included under that Grants and

Subsidies.

MS. MICHAEL:

Right. Okay.

Thank

you.

Minister, could we have an update on the Apprenticeship Wage Subsidy and the

number of participants in 2017-18?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah, we certainly can get that for you. Not a problem.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay.

Statistics, the numbers of apprentices doing journeyperson training,

journeyperson certificates issued, and if we could have a gender breakdown of

both of those?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah.

MS. MICHAEL:

Also, the number of women served by the Office to Advance Women Apprentices.

MR. HAWKINS:

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay. So we'll get all that information.

MR. HAWKINS:

Absolutely.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much.

I think

I have to go back, one more thing or maybe not.

This is

just a question. It relates – it might help you if I give you the exact thing so

you'll see what it's relating to. Relating to

section 4.1.05.

MR. HAWKINS:

4.1.05.

MS. MICHAEL:

Labour Standards.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yes.

MS. MICHAEL:

You mentioned there was a

loss of one position through attrition and it was a labour standard officer.

What would be the role of the person in that position?

4.1.05,

you said there was a loss of one position and you said the title of the position

was labour standard officer.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah. Well, that particular officer would be looking at enforcement compliancy

within, whether the minimum wage, minimum

Labour Standards Act , training.

Anything having to do with the labour standards for employers, employees, that

would certainly – I'm assuming that would cover –

MS. MICHAEL:

Would that work be picked up

by somebody who has the same title that that person had?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yes.

MS. MICHAEL:

It would.

Okay,

thank you.

All

right, now you can go forward again to 5.1.01.

MR. HAWKINS:

5.1.01.

MS. MICHAEL:

Oh, no, I'm sorry.

Barry,

you were at 5.2.01 weren't you?

MR. PETTEN:

Yes.

MS. MICHAEL:

Yes.

5.2.02.

MR. HAWKINS:

5.2.02.

MS. MICHAEL:

Yes.

MR. HAWKINS:

Okay.

MS. MICHAEL:

We're almost there,

Minister.

MR. HAWKINS:

What's that? Almost there.

MS. MICHAEL:

Almost there.

MR. HAWKINS:

That's right.

MS. MICHAEL:

This is the Physical Plant

and Equipment for Memorial. I see that the Grants and Subsidies went up

significantly.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yes.

MS. MICHAEL:

I can guess which

construction that is, but could you tell us –

MR. HAWKINS:

Yes. That area, if you look

at the first one: Loans, Advances and Investments –

MS. MICHAEL:

Yes.

MR. HAWKINS:

– that's a good news story.

That actually we are ahead of

schedule with the core science facility, so we had

to put the loan forward to them. That's a good news story in that they're ahead

of schedule.

The

Grants and Subsidies; it's the province's contribution to Memorial for their

capital projects, and that excludes any budget provision for the Faculty of

Medicine.

MS. MICHAEL:

Right.

MR. HAWKINS:

So that's giving them

working capital within their capital for their physical plant and equipment.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

Very

quickly, the federal revenue has gone down slightly. How come?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yes. Well, that would be

again –

MS. MICHAEL:

Well, it went up and then

came down.

MR. HAWKINS:

– with the delays, some of

the delays. The animal research centre, I'm assuming, would be in that one.

OFFICIAL:

It's just really a cash flow.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah. It's a cash flow that

we're just – we're going to catch up eventually, but just trying to make changes

while – I don't want to use the term make the changes on the fly. I don't know

if that's a good thing when you're talking about budget but –

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay, thank you.

I think

my time is up.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Ms. Michael.

Mr.

Petten.

MR. PETTEN:

5.3.01.

MR. HAWKINS:

5.3.01.

MR. PETTEN:

Did you notice the operating

grant was reduced there as well?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah.

MR. PETTEN:

Do you expect any campus

closures as a result of this reduction?

MR. HAWKINS:

I'll make a statement now:

As of right now I have no idea. Certainly, it's not a surprise.

These

are targets that we've set with the College of the North Atlantic. Some of that

offsetting – you're looking at $1.4 million. We're offsetting that $1.4 million

by continuing our tuition freeze for Newfoundland students which is $1.1

million. We don't anticipate any major changes, other than what have been

customary changes or tweaking with regard to program offerings they've done over

the last number of years.

With

any post-secondary institution that is offering programs there always has to be

a review of what the labour market demands are. If, in fact, labour market

demands in certain areas are not there, then that's the college's right to

adjust programming. That has always happened and we don't see anything any

different this year.

MR. PETTEN:

Do you know what the

enrolment numbers were for 2016 compared to 2017?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah, we do. I thought I had

that there.

Candice, do we have that write off? Do you have that number right there so that

I don't have to look for it?

MS. ENNIS-WILLIAMS:

(Inaudible.)

I have

the number of graduates for 2016-17. For CNA it was 2,592. For enrolment for

fall 2017 it was 5,482 for CNA.

MR. PETTEN:

Would that be an increase? I

know it's based on graduates and enrolment, but is that an increase from – one

is graduates and one is enrollees, right?

MS. ENNIS-WILLIAMS:

That's correct.

MR. PETTEN:

How do I know if enrolment

is up or down?

MR. HAWKINS:

I can assure you that, as I

mentioned earlier, right across the board we have a challenge. We have a

challenge in our private training institutions, we have a challenge in our

public post-secondary institutions, whether it's College of the North Atlantic

or whether it's Memorial. If we have less students coming out of school, our

enrolments are going to be down. We are seeing enrolment reductions, in the last

two and three years, that are less.

order for us to continue to have a competitive education going forward, we need

to look at other areas. That's why I think it's important that we concentrate on

international students and Canadian students. Right now, if you look at Memorial

University – it's an interesting fact – one-third of the student population is

from international students or Canadian students.

If you

look back probably 20 years, I'm sure those numbers would have been

significantly different. That's an area that we have to – as colleges and the

university – continually monitor because we have to ensure that we have

enrolment levels that provide revenue so we can have instructors and what goes

around.

MR. PETTEN:

Under 5.3.02, the federal

revenue line.

MR. HAWKINS:

Which line?

MR. PETTEN:

The federal revenue.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah.

MR. PETTEN:

What is that?

MR. HAWKINS:

That revenue line is under

the Strategic Investment Fund, SIF. We have a number of projects that we're

getting federal funding. This was a fund that was made available with very tight

timelines in getting construction completed. In Newfoundland and Labrador, with

some of the winter conditions that we have, not all of them have reached areas

that we feel they should be.

We have

applied for extensions under the SIF program and I think we've been pretty much

granted all – if not all, just about all. You'll see adjustment in that federal

funding. As more of these projects get closer to completion, then that's an

adjustment of the federal funding that we have here.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

5.4.02.

MR. HAWKINS:

02?

MR. PETTEN:

5.4.02, yeah.

Grants and Subsidies there's a decrease of $3.5 million and back up again this

year.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah, we had budgeted $5.6

million. Actually, we revised it to $2.1 million. Basically, what happened there

is we used cash on hand.

The

Newfoundland and Labrador Student Financial Services actually have a bank

account. When collections come in from student loans, they go into this account.

In 2017-2018, rather than getting a loan or taking it out of the budget, we were

able to use cash on hand for that. That's where you're seeing the differential.

We're back, in 2018-2019, at the $5.6 million level again.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay, so the $3.5 million

was cash on hand?

MR. HAWKINS:

Correct.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

The

Revenue – Provincial; there's a $250,000 reduction in the revised in 2017.

MR. HAWKINS:

Yes, the decrease was based

on a review of the prior year trends. Again, the same scenario; it was cash on

hand that was used to cover some of these operations. It's basically having the

cash at the time versus having to find it in some other area.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

5.5.01,

Purchased Services; the $1.564 million reduction in Revised and it's back up to

$10 million again this year?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah, that was another one

of those areas that it's probably difficult to predict precisely. The

differential between the budget in 2017-18 and revised was

lower-than-anticipated uptake of apprentice block training. The funds were

transferred to the LMDA program to be used for other projects. It's not a matter

of us losing the funding; it's just a matter that there was less of an uptake

for the block training.

MR. PETTEN:

Okay.

That's

almost final. I just have a couple of questions to ask you, if you don't mind.

Would

you provide me with how many 13-weekers are in your department?

MR. HAWKINS:

Say what?

MR. PETTEN:

How many 13-weekers.

MR. HAWKINS:

We'd have to get that. I

have no idea.

MR. PETTEN:

No?

What

about the total number of positions in the department for this year compared to

last?

MR. HAWKINS:

We do have that somewhere.

What do we have here? That one here, Gig, that we have, going back to April

2013. Want me to go back that far?

MS. DOOLING:

I can get the numbers.

MR. HAWKINS:

Okay.

MS. DOOLING:

Mr. Petten, I can answer that for you.

2017-18, the department had a total of 651 positions. In '18-'19 there are 609.

So there's a change of 42 positions. I could step through those with you so that

you understand the difference of the 42. Nine positions would be related to our

attrition management plan; 30 positions related to the restructuring, the

management restructuring that was done in the department is part of the '17-'18

budget, and three positions were normal turnover.

MR. CHAIR:

Thank you, Mr. Petten.

Ms.

Michael.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just

have one more question, Minister, and it's a general question. It has to do with

the college's review and modernization plan. We were told they would be working

with the province on infrastructure challenges. Can you give us an update on

that, please?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yes. Thank you.

course, there are probably a couple of plans. Memorial certainly has gone

through a governance review. The College of the North Atlantic is working

through their modernization plan which they've done a significant amount of

work, and they're also looking at – they started looking at a strategic plan as

well to incorporate within their broader mandate of what services they want to

provide.

I guess

following the Premier's task force on K to 12, there hasn't been a comprehensive

study done, an independent study done of our public post-secondary education for

quite some time, maybe 10, 12 years. We had discussions with Memorial, with the

president. We had discussions with the president of the college, also with the

chair of the Board of Regents and the chair of the college board and felt it

probably would be prudent at this time to do a comprehensive study of our

post-secondary public education system to make sure we have a system in place

that projects into the next decade and the next decade.

There

are a lot of changes that have happened really in the last 10 and 12 years, and

we need to really be able to capture that. Part of capturing that would be

looking at, how can the university and how can our post-secondary – and, of

course, we don't look at the private training institutions because they're

separate, they are private business. At least when we are providing a public

education, we got to find ways in which we can provide these services more

efficiently, more effectively and beneficial to our students and to faculty.

So what

we're going to be doing is we're going to be embarking on a pretty extensive

review. Involved in that extensive review will be the president of the college

and president of the university; key stakeholders, such as students as well.

Because I think it's very, very important that we engage students in that whole

study and putting together a terms of reference.

Once

that terms of reference has been put together, then we will look at putting

together an independent committee, whether that's through the IAC or some other

means. Right now, we are probably leaning towards the IAC to put together an

independent committee that will then work on the terms of reference and looking

at the possibility of then engaging an outside consultant or an independent

consultant to be able to help them work through those terms of reference.

Again,

there's not a lot of flesh put to what we're looking at but we're getting there

on the framework piece. I would suspect that come the fall we probably should

have our terms of reference pretty much set. Then, of course, the work will

begin. We're pretty excited about that and would invite any ideas or any

recommendations that you guys would have as well to help us as we put together.

That certainly would be welcome, because I think it's important that we do this

right. I'm really anxious to get in and get working on that.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay.

Something like the colleges reviewed modernization plan, that would just

continue on –

MR. HAWKINS:

Uh-huh.

MS. MICHAEL:

– their own track?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yeah.

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay.

Are you

involved in working with them on that?

MR. HAWKINS:

Yes.

MS. MICHAEL:

You are. Okay.

MR. HAWKINS:

What's that?

OFFICIAL:

(Inaudible.)

MR. HAWKINS:

Yes, we do.

MS. MICHAEL:

What was that?

MR. HAWKINS:

No, she just reminded me. We get regular reports from the college on –

MS. MICHAEL:

Okay.

MR. HAWKINS:

– where they are. They've made some significant improvements in the way they are

trying to modernize the services we're providing.

MS. MICHAEL:

Great. I guess they'll have it ready for 2019.

MR. HAWKINS:

Well, that's the target.

MS. MICHAEL:

Since that's the target. Okay.

Thank

you very much, Mr. Minister, that's all I have.

MR. HAWKINS:

Okay.

Thank

you.

CHAIR:

Thank you.

MS. MICHAEL:

And may I thank you and – because it will probably be the last time I'll speak.

Thank you and your staff for being here tonight and working through late hours.

MR. HAWKINS:

Not a problem.

Thank

you.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Ms. Michael.

Mr.

Petten.

MR. PETTEN:

Yeah. I just wanted to close

off, too, thanking the staff and you, Minister, for providing answers and staff

for sitting in and providing the background.

From my

pervious life, I do know what's involved with Estimates. There was a time I used

to sit over there. So I do understand the process and I appreciate your time,

patience and providing us all the answers.

Thank

you very much.

CHAIR:

Thank you, Mr. Petten.

Can I

ask the Clerk to recall the first subhead, please?

CLERK:

1.1.01.

CHAIR:

Shall 1.1.01 carry?

All

those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against?

Carried.

motion, subhead 1.1.01 carried.

CLERK:

1.2.01 to 5.5.01 inclusive.

CHAIR:

1.2.01 to 5.5.01 inclusive.

Shall those subheads carry?

All

those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against?

Carried.

motion, subheads 1.2.01 through 5.5.01 carried.

CLERK:

Total.

CHAIR:

Shall the total carry?

All

those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against?

Carried.

motion, Department of Advanced Education, Skills and Labour, total heads,

carried.

CHAIR:

Shall I report the Estimates

of the Department of Advanced Education, Skills and Labour carried without

amendment?

All

those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against?

Carried.

motion, Estimates of the Department of Advanced Education, Skills and Labour

carried without amendment.

CHAIR:

I need a mover of the

minutes of our meeting this morning.

MS. P. PARSONS:

So moved.

CHAIR:

So moved by Pam.

All

those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against?

Carried.

motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR:

Just a reminder, our next

meeting of the Resources Committee is this coming Thursday, April 26, at 6 p.m.

and we will be reviewing the Estimates of Tourism, Culture, Industry and

Innovation.

With

that, I want to thank you, Minister, and your department as well for a great

evening. We're out early, so go enjoy yourselves.

Thank

you very much to the Committee.

OFFICIAL:

(Inaudible.)

CHAIR:

Thank you as well.

I would

entertain a motion to adjourn.

MR. BRAGG:

So moved.

CHAIR:

So moved by Mr. Bragg.

All

those in favour?

Carried.

motion, the Committee adjourned.