British Columbia Hansard — 10 August 2020, p.m., Issue 353 (41st Parliament, 5th Session)

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British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session, 41st Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD) Monday, August 10, 2020 Afternoon Sitting Issue No. 353 THE HONOURABLE DARRYL PLECAS, SPEAKER ISSN 1499-2175

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC Fifth Session, 41st Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Darryl Plecas EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................... Hon. John Horgan Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance............................................................................................................................Hon.

Carole James Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Training..................................................................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Minister of Agriculture.........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General.................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ............................................................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Child Care...................................................................................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Citizens’ Services...................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Anne Kang Minister of Education ............................................................................................................................................................ Hon. Rob Fleming Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources ..................................................................................................... Hon. Bruce Ralston Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy............................................................................................. Hon.

George Heyman Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ..............................................Hon. Doug Donaldson Minister of Health .....................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ......................................................................................................... Hon.

Scott Fraser Minister of Jobs, Economic Development and Competitiveness.............................................................................Hon. Michelle Mungall Minister of State for Trade...............................................................................................................................................Hon. George Chow Minister of Labour ...................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions............................................................................................................................ Hon. Judy Darcy Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.................................................................................................................. Hon. Selina Robinson Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ........................................................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction..............................................................................................Hon. Shane Simpson Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture.....................................................................................................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure................................................................................................................ Hon.

Claire Trevena LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition................................................................................................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Leader of the Third Party .................................................................................................................................................................Adam Olsen Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................................................................................

Raj Chouhan Assistant Deputy Speaker............................................................................................................................................................. Simon Gibson Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ................................................................................................................ Spencer Chandra Herbert Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...........................................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel.............................................................................................................................. Seunghee Suzie Seo Clerk Assistant, Parliamentary Services...........................................................................................................................

Artour Sogomonian Clerk Assistant, Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ..............................................................................................Susan Sourial Senior Research Analyst ................................................................................................................................................................. Jennifer Arril Senior Research Analyst ...................................................................................................................................................................

Karan Riarh Acting Sergeant-at-Arms..................................................................................................................................................................Greg Nelson

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal) ......................................................................... Penticton Bains, Hon. Harry (NDP)................................................................ Surrey-Newton Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) .....................................................Cariboo-Chilcotin Beare, Hon. Lisa (NDP)..............................................

Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Begg, Garry (NDP) .......................................................................Surrey-Guildford Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) .........................................................Peace River South Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal)...........................................Prince George–Valemount Brar, Jagrup (NDP).......................................................................Surrey-Fleetwood Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal)........................................................

Surrey South Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) .......................................Vancouver–West End Chen, Hon. Katrina (NDP)...................................................... Burnaby-Lougheed Chouhan, Raj (NDP) .................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Chow, Hon. George (NDP).................................................Vancouver-Fraserview Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal) ..................................Columbia River–Revelstoke Coleman, Rich (BC Liberal) ................................................................ Langley East Conroy, Hon.

Katrine (NDP)...........................................................Kootenay West Darcy, Hon. Judy (NDP) ............................................................. New Westminster Davies, Dan (BC Liberal) ........................................................... Peace River North de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal) ..............................................Abbotsford West Dean, Mitzi (NDP)................................................................ Esquimalt-Metchosin D’Eith, Bob (NDP) ................................................................Maple Ridge–Mission Dix, Hon.

Adrian (NDP)....................................................... Vancouver-Kingsway Donaldson, Hon. Doug (NDP)...................................................................... Stikine Eby, Hon. David, QC (NDP).............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (NDP).........................................................Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Hon. Mike (NDP) ........................................................Port Coquitlam Fleming, Hon. Rob (NDP) ......................................................

Victoria–Swan Lake Foster, Eric (BC Liberal).............................................................Vernon-Monashee Fraser, Hon. Scott (NDP) ..................................................Mid Island–Pacific Rim Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) .............................................Cowichan Valley Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) ...................................................Abbotsford-Mission Glumac, Rick (NDP).........................................................Port Moody–Coquitlam Heyman, Hon. George (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Horgan, Hon.

John (NDP) ................................................ Langford–Juan de Fuca Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) ........................................................ Surrey-Cloverdale Isaacs, Joan (BC Liberal) .......................................... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain James, Hon. Carole (NDP).................................................... Victoria–Beacon Hill Johal, Jas (BC Liberal).................................................Richmond-Queensborough Kahlon, Ravi (NDP)............................................................................... Delta North Kang, Hon.

Anne (NDP)......................................................... Burnaby–Deer Lake Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal)..............................................................................Shuswap Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) .............................................. Boundary-Similkameen Lee, Michael (BC Liberal) ........................................................Vancouver-Langara Leonard, Ronna-Rae (NDP) ..................................................... Courtenay-Comox Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal).............................................

Kelowna–Lake Country Ma, Bowinn (NDP) .....................................................North Vancouver–Lonsdale Malcolmson, Sheila (NDP) ........................................................................Nanaimo Mark, Hon. Melanie (NDP) .......................................Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Martin, John (BC Liberal)....................................................................... Chilliwack Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal)..................................... Kamloops–North Thompson Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ........................................... Prince George–Mackenzie Mungall, Hon.

Michelle (NDP)......................................................Nelson-Creston Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal) ............................................................ Cariboo North Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)............................ Saanich North and the Islands Paton, Ian (BC Liberal).......................................................................... Delta South Plecas, Hon. Darryl (Ind.) ........................................................... Abbotsford South Polak, Mary (BC Liberal) ............................................................................. Langley Popham, Hon.

Lana (NDP)............................................................... Saanich South Ralston, Hon. Bruce (NDP) ............................................................Surrey-Whalley Redies, Tracy (BC Liberal) .......................................................Surrey–White Rock Reid, Linda (BC Liberal) ................................................. Richmond South Centre Rice, Jennifer (NDP) ............................................................................. North Coast Robinson, Hon.

Selina (NDP) .........................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal)................................................................................... Skeena Routledge, Janet (NDP) ....................................................................Burnaby North Routley, Doug (NDP) ................................................. Nanaimo–North Cowichan Rustad, John (BC Liberal) ................................................................Nechako Lakes Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal) ..............................................................

Kootenay East Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ......................................... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Hon. Shane (NDP)..................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sims, Jinny (NDP) ........................................................................ Surrey-Panorama Singh, Rachna (NDP) .........................................................Surrey–Green Timbers Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal) ................................................................. Kelowna West Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal)...............................................

Parksville-Qualicum Stone, Todd (BC Liberal)..........................................Kamloops–South Thompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal)........................................ West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal)................................................ Vancouver–False Creek Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal) ...........................................West Vancouver–Capilano Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ................................................................. Fraser-Nicola Thomson, Steve (BC Liberal)......................................................

Kelowna-Mission Thornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) ...............................North Vancouver–Seymour Throness, Laurie (BC Liberal) .......................................................Chilliwack-Kent Trevena, Hon. Claire (NDP) ................................................................North Island Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal) ................................................. Richmond North Centre Weaver, Dr.

Andrew (Ind.)................................................Oak Bay–Gordon Head Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal) ................................Vancouver-Quilchena Y ap, John (BC Liberal)............................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission............................................................................Simon Gibson Abbotsford South....................................................................... Hon. Darryl Plecas Abbotsford West......................................................................

Michael de Jong, QC Boundary-Similkameen...................................................................... Linda Larson Burnaby–Deer Lake....................................................................... Hon. Anne Kang Burnaby-Edmonds................................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed .................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Burnaby North .................................................................................

Janet Routledge Cariboo-Chilcotin .............................................................................Donna Barnett Cariboo North.................................................................................... Coralee Oakes Chilliwack ............................................................................................... John Martin Chilliwack-Kent ...............................................................................Laurie Throness Columbia River–Revelstoke .........................................................

Doug Clovechok Coquitlam–Burke Mountain.................................................................. Joan Isaacs Coquitlam-Maillardville ...................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Courtenay-Comox................................................................... Ronna-Rae Leonard Cowichan Valley .............................................................................

Sonia Furstenau Delta North.............................................................................................Ravi Kahlon Delta South ..................................................................................................Ian Paton Esquimalt-Metchosin ..............................................................................Mitzi Dean Fraser-Nicola .........................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Kamloops–North Thompson .............................................................Peter Milobar Kamloops–South Thompson..................................................................Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country .....................................................................Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission ..............................................................................

Steve Thomson Kelowna West ..........................................................................................Ben Stewart Kootenay East.......................................................................................Tom Shypitka Kootenay West........................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Langford–Juan de Fuca .............................................................. Hon. John Horgan Langley .....................................................................................................

Mary Polak Langley East.........................................................................................Rich Coleman Maple Ridge–Mission.............................................................................. Bob D’Eith Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows............................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Mid Island–Pacific Rim................................................................ Hon. Scott Fraser Nanaimo......................................................................................

Sheila Malcolmson Nanaimo–North Cowichan............................................................... Doug Routley Nechako Lakes........................................................................................ John Rustad Nelson-Creston ................................................................... Hon. Michelle Mungall New Westminster........................................................................... Hon. Judy Darcy North Coast ...........................................................................................

Jennifer Rice North Island.............................................................................. Hon. Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................................... Bowinn Ma North Vancouver–Seymour........................................................Jane Thornthwaite Oak Bay–Gordon Head............................................................Dr.

Andrew Weaver Parksville-Qualicum.......................................................................Michelle Stilwell Peace River North ................................................................................... Dan Davies Peace River South ................................................................................ Mike Bernier Penticton ................................................................................................. Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam...................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam.......................................................................Rick Glumac Powell River–Sunshine Coast....................................................... Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie....................................................................Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount ..................................................................

Shirley Bond Richmond North Centre..........................................................................Teresa Wat Richmond-Queensborough.........................................................................Jas Johal Richmond South Centre ......................................................................... Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ...................................................................................

John Y ap Saanich North and the Islands .............................................................Adam Olsen Saanich South .............................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Shuswap...................................................................................................... Greg Kyllo Skeena........................................................................................................... Ellis Ross Stikine....................................................................................Hon.

Doug Donaldson Surrey-Cloverdale ................................................................................ Marvin Hunt Surrey-Fleetwood.....................................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey–Green Timbers........................................................................Rachna Singh Surrey-Guildford......................................................................................Garry Begg Surrey-Newton ..............................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama ...................................................................................... Jinny Sims Surrey South ................................................................................ Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Whalley ......................................................................... Hon. Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock .............................................................................. Tracy Redies Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................. Hon.

George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek........................................................................ Sam Sullivan Vancouver-Fraserview...............................................................Hon. George Chow Vancouver-Hastings ............................................................... Hon. Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington....................................................................... Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway..................................................................... Hon.

Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara................................................................................ Michael Lee Vancouver–Mount Pleasant..................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Vancouver–Point Grey ............................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Vancouver-Quilchena........................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Vancouver–West End .....................................................Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee ....................................................................................Eric Foster Victoria–Beacon Hill.................................................................. Hon. Carole James Victoria–Swan Lake.................................................................... Hon. Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano...................................................................

Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky................................................................Jordan Sturdy Party Standings: BC Liberal 42; NDP 41; Independent 2; BC Green Party 2

CONTENTS Monday, August 10, 2020 Afternoon Sitting Page Routine Business Introductions by Members................................................................................................................................................... 12305 Statements (Standing Order 25B) ....................................................................................................................................... 12305 Surrey Board of Trade Top 25 Under 25 Awards J. Sims Mudslide in McBride and community response S. Bond Sustainable aquaculture and First Nations shellfish operations J. Rice Rosalyn Ing J.

Y ap Affordable housing projects in Nanaimo S. Malcolmson Multi-use trails for transportation and tourism recovery J. Sturdy Oral Questions....................................................................................................................................................................... 12307 Handling of personal health information J. Johal Hon. A. Kang Hon. A. Dix M. de Jong Government plan for education system reopening S. Furstenau Hon. R. Fleming Government action on homelessness and community safety T. Stone Hon. S. Robinson Government action on homelessness and addiction issues J.

Thornthwaite Hon. S.

Robinson Tabling Documents............................................................................................................................................................... 12313 Report pursuant to the COVID-19 Related Measures Act regarding Ministerial Order M256/2020 Report pursuant to the COVID-19 Related Measures Act regarding Ministerial Order M257/2020 Report pursuant to the COVID-19 Related Measures Act regarding Order-in-Council 449/2020, Attorney General Report pursuant to the COVID-19 Related Measures Act regarding Order-in-Council 449/2020, Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General Report pursuant to the COVID-19 Related Measures Act regarding Order-in-Council 451/2020 Report pursuant to the COVID-19 Related Measures Act regarding Order-in-Council 453/2020, Attorney General Report pursuant to the COVID-19 Related Measures Act regarding Order-in-Council 453/2020, Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General Report pursuant to the COVID-19 Related Measures Act regarding Order-in-Council 457/2020, Attorney General Report pursuant to the COVID-19 Related Measures Act regarding Order-in-Council 457/2020, Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General Report pursuant to the COVID-19 Related Measures Act regarding Order-in-Council 459/2020 Statements .............................................................................................................................................................................. 12313 Clarification of remarks made during Bill 13 committee stage debate Hon.

D. Donaldson Reporting of Bills................................................................................................................................................................... 12313 Bill 23 — Workers Compensation Amendment Act, 2020

Orders of the Day Third Reading of Bills ........................................................................................................................................................... 12313 Bill 23 — Workers Compensation Amendment Act, 2020 Committee of Supply ............................................................................................................................................................ 12313 Estimates: Ministry of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development(continued) C. Oakes Hon. D. Donaldson T. Wat J. Sturdy M. Morris I. Paton D. Ashton M.

Bernier D. Davies J. Rustad D. Barnett S. Furstenau Third Reading of Bills ........................................................................................................................................................... 12329 Bill 23 — Workers Compensation Amendment Act, 2020(continued)

MONDAY , AUGUST 10, 2020 The House met at 1:36 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Introductions by Members Hon. D. Eby: Some of the members will have a noticed a stranger on the floor. It is our lovely daughter, Iva. She’s 11 months old, and this is her first time being in the House — a little delayed for the presentation than we would have liked but very glad that it’s finally happening. Up in the gallery are our son Ezra and my beautiful wife Cailey, who makes it all possible for me to be here and for us to have such amazing kids.

Thank you, Cailey, thank you, Ezra, and thank you, Iva, for coming to visit. Would the House please join me in making them feel very welcome. J. Y ap:In the House, virtually, today to follow proceed- ings is my constituent George Ing. He’s also here following the proceedings with his two granddaughters, Nimkish Y oung Ing and Aisha Y oung Ing. They’ll be following, through the streaming webcast, this afternoon’s proceed- ings. I ask the House to join me in welcoming George Ing, Nimkish Y oung Ing and Aisha Y oung Ing. G.

Kyllo:It gives me great pride to rise in the House today and give special thanks to the Canadian Mental Health Association in the Shuswap. Both Dawn Dunlop and Denise Butler do amazing work in providing services to the folks of the Shuswap. I recently contributed some dollars to them through a fundraiser, in which case I actu- ally allowed my grandchildren, Nolan and Siddha and Kylie and Hannah, to participate in shaving off my COVID beard and cutting my hair. I am doing a bit of a comb-over today. There happens to be a little bit of a short bang prob- lem on this side, but it was all for a great cause.

I want to give a special thank-you to all of the folks in the Shuswap and across the province that contributed about $6,500 to help support the work of the Canadian Mental Health Association in the Shuswap. J. Sims: Joining me today is a family from Surrey-Pan- orama, Eka and Amer Sidhu. They are the proud parents of Sia Sidhu and, of course, her young brother Aryan, who is a future hockey and soccer star, or so he told me. I want to thank the parents — I would say the very proud parents — of Sia, who is an award-winner with the Surrey Board of Trade for her innovation and creativity.

Y ou could tell that they were just absolutely glowing when they brought her to my office, masked and, of course, properly socially distanced. We really had an amazing visit. Please help me welcome them to our proceedings today. Statements (Standing Order 25B) SURREY BOARD OF TRADE TOP 25 UNDER 25 AW ARDS J. Sims: Every year the Surrey Board of Trade highlights 25 innovative and creative entrepreneurs under the age of 25. As I scrolled through this year’s list of 25 Under 25, there was a number that jumped out at me, and it was the number 11.

Among the winners was an 11-year-old named Sia Sidhu, who was the youngest winner and who also happens to be my constituent. [1:40 p.m.] Sia is a polite, well-spoken and focused young woman who dreams of making a difference. At six, Sia decided she wanted to have a lemonade stand. She raised $300 for the local care home. Since her first fundraiser, Sia has sold ice cream, cream sundaes and hot dogs and most recently hosted Sia’s Burger Shack. Sia has learned the value of teamwork. She recruits friends and family to help her execute her plans.

Over the last five years, Sia has raised over $17,000 for the chil- dren’s hospital. Last year $9,200 was earmarked for muscu- lar degeneration, a disorder that affects two of her cousins. Sia plans to host a virtual fundraiser this year, and I look forward to supporting her. Congratulations, Sia Sandhu, the 11-year-old winner of the Surrey Board of Trade’s Top 25 Under 25 Award. Y our future is bright, and at such a young age, you are making the world a better place. Thank you. MUDSLIDE IN McBRIDE AND COMMUNITY RESPONSE S. Bond: It came without notice and literally shook Garry and Mabel Moore out of their beds.

Mud, water, rocks and dirt slammed into the home near McBride, B.C. that they have lived in for 37 years. They said it sounded like a freight train as the massive debris slammed into their bedroom wall at about 1:30 in the morning. Garry and Mabel instinctively knew that they would need to find a way out. They used a log that was floating through their home to shatter the kitchen window and climb out. Unfortunately, Garry received serious cuts that required surgery as a result of him having to climb through the smashed window, and Mabel broke a toe and was covered in bruises.

We are very thankful that there was no loss of life. Once they had escaped their own home, the Moores worked their way across a huge stretch of mud and slid down a steep embankment to ensure that their 81-year-old 12305

neighbour, Joyce Godfrey, was safe. Joyce was sound asleep when Mabel woke her up and told her that they needed to get out of the house, worrying that a second slide might come down. Garry, who is 70, and Mabel, who is 67, have lost every- thing, and 81-year-old Joyce has lived in her home for 50 years and now has a yard full of mud and debris. Other res- idents were impacted as well. Mabel and Garry said they are so grateful for the sup- port of family. The McBride community have stepped up to provide the care that all of the impacted residents need.

Now work is underway to secure the necessary resources, through disaster financial assistance, so that these families can rebuild their homes and their lives. Nothing will replace the treasured memories or items that were lost in those traumatic minutes. The Moores can’t believe that they managed to escape the mudslide. As Mabel said: “We’re together, and we’re still here. So that’s the main thing. ” SUSTAINABLE AQUACULTURE AND FIRST NATIONS SHELLFISH OPERATIONS J.

Rice: Recently I had the pleasure of touring the facil- ities of Coastal Shellfish, an Indigenous-owned, sustain- able scallop farming operation on the north coast. It’s an example of the kind of sustainable economy we can and should be striving to build in B.C. Coastal Shellfish came directly out of a First Nations– led struggle to protect the Great Bear Rainforest. Coastal First Nations knew that to protect the Great Bear Rain- forest in the long term they had to build an alternative to the traditional extractivist boom-and-bust economy that has dominated Canada for years.

If we want to protect our forests, rivers and oceans and have a thriving economy, we need sustainable industries that respect environmental stewardship, Indigenous rights and local communities. Since 2003, local First Nations on the north coast have invested over $25 million to create the first scallop aqua- culture operation in North America and, likely, the largest operation in the world. They are developing a brand-new industry in North America, and this year they were poised to dramatically ramp up operations.

While COVID-19 has sidelined their planned growth, they still are optimistic about their future prospects as North America’s leaders in shellfish aquaculture. Today Coastal Shellfish employs around 60 people in Prince Rupert and surrounding communities in their scal- lop farm and processing plant. This is a huge turning point for Prince Rupert, which has been losing fishing and pro- cessing jobs for decades.

In fact, Coastal Shellfish is now operating out of the old Canfisco fish processing plant, which ended operations four years ago, putting 580 people out of work. [1:45 p.m.] I hope this initiative acts as an example of the type of sustainable industry that can make B.C. a beacon of sus- tainability around the world and help our economy recov- er during the pandemic. Thank you to the Metlakatla Development Corp. and all the coastal First Nations communities that made this project possible. I’m proud of what you’re doing on the north coast. ROSALYN ING J.

Y ap:I rise today to speak about the life of an incred- ible community member and constituent, Dr. Rosalyn Ing or Roz to those who knew her. On July 23, Roz suffered a fatal stroke at the age of 82. Although she’s no longer with us, her legacy will live on. Roz was from the Opaskwayak Cree First Nation in Manitoba. She endured a traumatic childhood, surviving the horrors of the residential school system. Despite this challenging start at life, Roz was resilient. She did not let past misfortune prevent her from achieving success. Roz met her husband, the future Lt. Col.

George Ing, when she served as a fighter control operator with the Roy- al Canadian Air Force. After raising two sons, Greg and Ted, at the age of 48, Roz went back to school. Roz was ardent about education, believing that it is paramount for strengthening ourselves and our communities, particularly for Indigenous people. She earned her bachelor’s degree in social work and a mas- ter of education, and in 2001, she received her PhD from UBC in educational studies.

Roz spent 11 years researching the lasting impacts of the residential school system and then proceeded to teach at the Native Education Centre and at UBC. Roz also sup- ported the work of the Truth and Reconciliation Com- mission. Roz took it as her duty to mentor, inspire and empower young people to achieve their potential. In 2012, Roz received the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee Medal for her work in Aboriginal education. Rosalyn Ing’s remarkable story is one we all can learn from. With enough determination, resilience and pas- sion, it is possible to move past whatever hardship and adversity we may face.

We mourn the loss of a truly inspiring person. We also celebrate her exceptional accomplishments and contribu- tions. The world is a better place because of Rosalyn Ing. AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECTS IN NANAIMO S. Malcolmson: Last month the new residents of Nanaimo’s newest affordable housing on Uplands Drive began selecting their units. Twenty-eight townhomes are being built right now, just the final finishing touches being put in place by the Nanaimo Association for Community Living. These are homes that are going to change people’s lives.

They’ve got group kitchens built in, a social lounge 12306 British Columbia Debates Monday, August 10, 2020

and the infrastructure for people to gather for weekly meals. The tenants selected…. Many of them are essential service workers. Most of them are developmentally dis- abled adults living alone. This is how they describe…. These new homes are going to change their lives. They said: “It’s a realization of a lifelong dream. ” A home of their very own. Smiles, tears of happiness and joy, and enthusiasm were common occurrences for the tenants during their unit selection meeting. One person said: “I think it’s going to be really good.

I like the fact that I can be more independent, that there’s a social group, that I won’t be lonely. There are going to be people around all the time, and I like that. ” This is the culmination of years of work by the Nanaimo Association for Community Living. They’re doing this, together with the province of B.C., with a $5 million investment. They describe it as a project that began with a dream, a request and an openness to possibility. Looking forward, just in the next few months, at the 880 affordable housing units that are going to be starting construction or are already well underway in Nanaimo….

Next we’ve got 23 units at Rosehill, built with M’akola and Vancouver Island Mental Health Society. Next, 74 units open on Estevan, built with the United Church. Next, 159 low-income seniors units in Buttertubs Marsh, built together with Nanaimo Affordable Housing. Altogether, it’s going to have a huge impact on our com- munity, and every one built with a fantastic community organization that’s leading the way and changing lives in partnership. [1:50 p.m.] MULTI-USE TRAILS FOR TRANSPORTATION AND TOURISM RECOVERY J.

Sturdy:Beyond the bike lane debates of urban British Columbia, right across the province, connecting com- munities with a safe and healthy alternative to the car to get into town, to school or to work can be as simple as a metre-wide, crushed-gravel trail that provides a real alternative to the skinny shoulders of the deep-ditch pro- vincial highways. Rural commuter trail development and maintenance is a bit of an orphan. Traditionally, mountain-bike trails are most often conceived of and built by local groups like the Squamish, Whistler and Pemberton Off-Road Cycling associations in the case of the Sea to Sky.

Reflecting their membership, these groups often focus on building and maintaining downhill excitement and the climbs needed to service them. Multi-use trails connecting communities, regional dis- tricts, municipalities and First Nations are complicated by jurisdiction and bureaucracy. Even for groups like the Pemberton Valley Trails Association, with decades of experience, the task can demand skills and resources that would challenge any community group but that are made even more difficult without a consistent funding model.

Enter an opportunity for a COVID recovery program that could support these worthy groups and leave a lasting provincial community legacy. A coalition has come together to form trails for a COVID recovery task force. The task force is a working group within the Mountain Bike Tourism Association. It is supported by Indigenous Tourism B.C., Destination British Columbia, the Tourism Industry Association of British Columbia, the Adventure Tourism Coalition and the Outdoor Recreation Council.

They’ve developed a plan for economic development and employment opportunities targeting communities and tourism across the province. Local trail societies can form the framework on which coordinated trail development would improve and expand transportation and recreation networks throughout Brit- ish Columbia. These organizations are raring to go, with shovel-ready trail projects that will support our belea- guered tourism sector and that will also leave important alternative community transportation infrastructure right across this province.

Let’s strengthen the trail network in British Columbia, because trails build community. Oral Questions HANDLING OF PERSONAL HEALTH INFORMATION J. Johal:The opposition has documents that show that the private medical information of British Columbians is being accessed by Americans. This is against the law. Shockingly, more than 5,000 files containing informa- tion from medical exams to prescriptions to contagious- disease information are being viewed by Americans, with the blessings of the B.C. government.

Donald Trump has shown nothing but increased hostility towards Canadians but now has access to these files and can use them for whatever reason the U.S. sees fit, including barring British Columbians entry to the United States. Can the Minister of Citizens’ Services, who was specific- ally asked in her mandate letter to safeguard the person- al information of British Columbians, tell us why she has allowed this to happen? Hon. A. Kang:Thank you to the member opposite for asking my very first QP question during the COVID-19 period. I’m answering this question virtually, from my office in Burnaby.

British Columbians must have the utmost confidence that their information is secure and protected. This is one of the passions that I have in my job. Our govern- ment is committed to continuously strengthening our privacy protection. I can assure the member opposite that we are doing our utmost best during COVID-19. Monday, August 10, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12307

Whatever we are doing here is not an uncommon prac- tice throughout Canada. Mr. Speaker:The member for Richmond-Queensbor- ough on a supplemental. J. Johal:I asked a very specific question. For the record, the minister did not answer. In many ways, she has sloughed this question off. I don’t think she understands the severity of this situation. This is a significant breach. There is no dispute, quite frankly, that this is happening. The government’s handpicked contractor, NTT, has confirmed that Americans are accessing the private med- ical information of British Columbians.

They have con- firmed that 5,000 files, though it could be higher, have been made available to people located in the United States. That means their private medical information is subject to the Patriot Act. Whether they have cancer or a prescrip- tion for medical cannabis, that information is now avail- able to the Trump administration. Again, to the Minister of Citizens’ Services, whose one job was to protect our information: why are Americans being allowed access to our private medical information? [1:55 p.m.] Hon. A.

Kang: When it comes to cyberattacks, cyber- criminals are becoming increasingly sophisticated. That requires ongoing vigilance and updating technology to continue to fend off these attacks. In British Columbia, the office of the chief information officer provides government with strategy and leadership in IT security. Our staff of experts have systems, to protect our network, that operate 24-7. This includes firewalls, intrusion prevention systems, antivirus software and a vul- nerability scanning program.

The government notifies the OIPC on a monthly basis of all suspected or actual privacy breaches that may have occurred in ministries. In the rare event that a suspicious privacy breach is suspected, the OIPC is practically noti- fied and as soon as possible. We are going to continue to work with the OIPC and all of our partners in British Col- umbia to make sure that our information is secure. Mr. Speaker:The member for Richmond-Queensbor- ough on a second supplemental. J. Johal:The minister just went through various security protocols. Quite frankly, every single one of those has failed.

This is not a security breach in the sense that it’s coming from within the system. It’s coming from without, outside. This is a contract that this government signed. Why has this minister forgotten that? Now, with this government being so inept when it comes to protecting our private medical information, it’s not just the Trump administration that now has access to it. It’s not just the Americans. Documents obtained by the opposition also show that people sitting in India, in clear violation of B.C. law, also have access to British Columbi- ans’ private medical information. “My shift time is over in India.

Could you please reassign this to some resource in a Canadian time zone to take care of this?” Again to the Minister of Citizens’ Services, who is fail- ing spectacularly at protecting our private information: can she tell this House why not one but two countries have access to our personal medical information? Hon. A. Dix: I just want to put it in context, because I think if people listen to the question of the hon. member, they really wouldn’t understand what we’re talking about. In 2011, the previous government contracted out services, IBM Canada services, to support people working in health care.

In 2016, the previous government decided to put that contract out for tender, and the winner of that contract was a company called NTT Canada. That contract was awarded after I became Minister of Health, in March 2018. The transition to the new contract occurred on July 29, 2020, just a couple of short weeks ago. There were some concerns at the beginning of this transition, as one might expect — after all, approximately 150,000 people in health care and about 80,000 machines are serviced — about delay times, which were too long on July 30, way too long.

Those delay times, in terms of responses to services, are down to a little over two minutes. During the transition, NTT did ask some of its U.S.- based contractors to support Canadians. But I just want to be clear that they were providing technical support only. They had no access to, nor did they store, personal or health data. In fact, it’s part of the contract that NTT Canada has to operate consistent with the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act.

I think if the member is interested in the substance of the issue, which is a significant one with respect to health information, I would be happy to arrange a brief- ing for him and the opposition so that they can look thoroughly through the question. I would say that I don’t…. It’s in trying to raise these issues in this way, with partial information, that we work hard to get at the truth. But I’m absolutely prepared to share all of the information necessary with the hon. member so that he can be satisfied with the answer.

M. de Jong: Thanks to the Health Minister for that remarkably selective description of the history of this. The transition that he describes began last year and, by all accounts, has been a disaster, which has given rise to this situation in the first place. Thousands upon thousands of operational problems have led to the company, which this government contracted with, making the decision…. Interjection. [2:00 p.m.] 12308 British Columbia Debates Monday, August 10, 2020

M. de Jong:Y ou know what? Maybe the Premier wants to answer the question, because someone over there had better answer for a serious breach of security of the privacy of individual British Columbians, which so far the minis- ter whose job it is to do that has been unable to do and the Health Minister has been unable to do. The company that this government contracted with made the decision to send files and provide access to personal health information to individuals located out- side of Canada, in the United States and apparently also in India.

Surrendering personal records or access to personal health records is an offence under our privacy protection legislation. It is an offence, and it is an offence that needs to be investigated. My question to the minister whose job it is to protect the privacy of British Columbians is: has that investigation been commenced, has she made the required request for the retrieval of the information, has she notified the Pri- vacy Commissioner, and has she notified the British Col- umbians whose personal health records have gone to for- eign agencies? Hon. A.

Dix:As noted, this service, this important ser- vice in support of British Columbia health authorities, had previously been contracted out. This was the result of a formal contracting process. A new contractor took over on July 29. At that time, there were 3,995 incidents that were still open — the previous contractor had been IBM — and 7,237 service requests. Since NTT took over on July 28, there have been 12,464 new incident tickets, and 11,127 of them have been resolved. There’s no one currently — no American people — sup- porting the Canadian operations currently working on the issue.

But I would be happy to give the opposition a full briefing on the question. If the opposition has concerns and specific issues to raise, I’ d be happy to look into them in great detail. We obviously take the privacy of health records extremely seriously. We worked through these processes methodically. I think it’s fair to say that on July 30, there were long delays in getting access and getting response to service requests in the health authorities. As a result of that, significant action was taken, and now the delays have gone down. The response time delays for service requests have gone down to 2.4 minutes.

But that said, it’s a significant issue. So what we’re doing is responding to that issue in the way the member would expect. If the members have concerns, I’ d be happy to provide a full briefing to them from the provincial health services authorities. They have an obligation, as does NTT Canada, to follow the laws of British Columbia embedded in the contract. The health supports they received were for Canadian services and Canadian responses. I think that the member…. What I’m saying to the member is that there are clear responses to the questions, and we’ d be happy to provide them. Mr.

Speaker:The member for Abbotsford West on a supplemental. M. de Jong: The Health Minister can try to minimize this all he wants. What we know for a fact, because the company acknowledges this, is that a minimum of 5,000 files, caught up in operational difficulties, were transferred and access was granted to individuals located outside of Canada, in the United States and in India, contrary to British Columbia laws.

If the minister is now saying that you can provide IT support in the health sector of the sort being contemplated here and being dealt with here without having access to the actual files, he’s wrong or severely and seriously misinformed. I know the minister and the government have been watching. The President of the United States hasn’t exactly been whistling love songs in Canada’s direction lately. He characterized Canada as a security threat only two weeks ago. He continues to attack our number one industry in British Columbia, softwood lumber, that the Premier said he was going to solve three years ago.

And now his security agencies have access to personalized health information from British Columbians. If the minister doesn’t think that those security agencies will make use of that intelligence in any way that they deem appropriate, then I think he is being seriously naive. [2:05 p.m.] Will the minister confirm that by surrendering personal health records to Americans, the very ability of British Columbians, whose records have been improperly sur- rendered, to gain entry into the U.S. may be compromised? Hon. A. Dix:The member makes a series of assertions.

If those assertions were accurate, then the concerns he raised would be accurate as well. Certainly, those concerns are my concerns. I’ d be happy to review any information that he believes that he has. What we know from our side and has been confirmed from our side is that no such information has been shared to the United States. I know that this is the time when making grandiloquent speeches about the President of the United States is a popular thing to do in Canada, but my focus is to ensure that health services are delivered in an effective way.

As you know, and as the member knows, and as I’ve acknowledged, there were issues around response in this system — this internal system which supports 80,000 machines and 150,000 people in the regional health authorities in the PHSA — and improvements have been made over the last number of days. It’s one thing I’ d say — that all of the issues that have been dealt with were reviewed, consistent with the protection of personal infor- Monday, August 10, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12309

mation of British Columbians in the Freedom of Informa- tion and Privacy Act. The health authorities, I think, take the health informa- tion and protecting the health information of British Col- umbians very seriously. They assure me they’ve done so in this case, and I’m happy to review any information the member has. GOVERNMENT PLAN FOR EDUCATION SYSTEM REOPENING S. Furstenau:Children throughout B.C. will be going back to school with in-class learning in under a month.

This short timeline makes it challenging for the necessary conversations to happen between parents, teachers and government about what classes will actually look like and what preventative measures will be taken. The education of our youth and the benefits of in-class learning can’t be overstated, but there are a number of unanswered questions. A primary concern of teachers and parents is that in many cases, the class sizes are simply too big to allow for safe physical distancing in classrooms. Moreover, not making masks mandatory, like other provinces are doing, is creating a lot of worry.

My question is to the Minister of Education. Will he consider delaying the restart of school to provide a plan to British Columbians that has funding for smaller class sizes, more support for teachers and other necessary measures to prevent the spread of COVID-19? Hon. R. Fleming: Thank you to the member for the question. The plan that we’ve developed in British Columbia, which is an update of a plan we developed in May of this year, was done with safety being the paramount priority for all students, staff and teachers in a school building. It was done under the direction of our provincial health officer.

It was done in close collaboration with all of the K- to-12 education stakeholders. We announced that on July 29. School districts are busy preparing things like time- tabling, implementing the health and safety guidelines and ordering supplies that are funded by government to make schools’ restart safe. I understand from the member’s question that parents are anxious to have information, and primarily informa- tion that comes from local sources. The connection they have to their local school communities is their primary point of contact and what’s of most interest to them and their families.

I can tell you, and I can tell the member, that school districts right now are busy working with- in those health and safety guidelines, organizing their schools around the advice that was given to us by Dr. Bonnie Henry. We have a safe, strong plan here in British Columbia. It’s built on sustained investments in the education system that we’ve made from day one as a government. We’ve invested, for example, $450 million to make class sizes in British Columbia the smallest they’ve been in a genera- tion.

That means an average of 18 students, for example, in kindergarten; 19 students, typically, in primary grades; and 22 students in high school settings. [2:10 p.m.] Those are the basis and the result of profound invest- ment that this government has made in schools. That was made much prior to the pandemic, but helps us and stands us in good stead during a pandemic — to have smaller learning environments, more one-on-one atten- tion by teachers. We’ve organized the safe return to school on a number of principles that were developed by public health.

We are working with a steering committee in British Columbia on an almost daily basis now to make sure that we make the best use of the time we have between now and Septem- ber 8. Also — you’ve heard the Premier speak about this last week — we are working with those very same partners about how to start school in the best way possible. This is not a normal September in the sense that kids return to their last year’s classroom.

They need the time and space to have the learning teams, the administrators, the teachers and support staff very familiar with the health and safety protocols and the organizational layout of a school. And then we’ll be in a position to safely, and on a staggered basis, welcome students back to school. So we’ll have more details about that. Those are conver- sations that are active and ongoing right now. But those are also discussions that have arisen at the steering com- mittee that we’re very conscious of and that we’re working through with all of our education partners. Mr.

Speaker:House Leader, Third Party, on a supple- mental. S. Furstenau:That was a lot of information. I take it, as the minister pointed out, not considering a delay to the start of the school year. As he notes, there’s a lot to consider with the restart of schools. Many parents rely on school not just for kids’ edu- cation but also for child care, and before- and after-school programs are crucial for many working parents. So if we expect people to go back to work, they need to know that their children will be taken care of.

As we’ve noted, the back-to-school plan requires more clarity, and the steering committee has yet to discuss, as far as we know, the before- and after-school programs. Meanwhile, many care centres usually care for children from multiple schools. While the province has been talk- ing with teachers and school administrators, we haven’t heard about what additional supports there will be for early childhood educators. The last time the government website was updated on information for early childhood educators regarding COVID-19 was June 2, 2020. My question is again to the Minister of Education.

For 12310 British Columbia Debates Monday, August 10, 2020

children to go back to school in the fall as normal, then parents need to feel assured for the safety of their child. Will there be a plan presented that encompasses the entire spectrum of the education system, including before- and after-school care? Hon. R. Fleming: I think perhaps the member mis- heard me. I very clearly said that the steering committee is working on how we have a welcome-back-ready school community in every part of the province — taking the time to do exactly that. So those are under discussion. We’ll have more to say about that shortly. We’re working with principals and vice- principals.

We’re working with school district leaders, teachers and support staff on exactly that. Parents will have information on what week 1 of school will look like in short order. On the question of organizing the kinds of supports — before- and after-school child care, specifically — that the member asks for, I think it’s good to see districts and providers out there serving parents, trying to assess what the demand looks like. For those before- and after-school child care operations that are on site, they’re looking to coordinate that with the school community. So that’s ongoing work that’s happening right now.

I can’t give the member specific answers today on which child care operations have developed their plans exactly. But you can see, around British Columbia, that they are serving parents just to see who is interested in resuming those kinds of services. We expect that before- and after- school care will continue to be there for families in their school communities. That’s what districts are working on coordinating right now with many partner organizations that deliver those services. GOVERNMENT ACTION ON HOMELESSNESS AND COMMUNITY SAFETY T.

Stone:After three years of this government, we have a report on the number of homeless in Metro Vancouver. The 2020 Homeless Count in Metro Vancouver report shows that, overall, the numbers have increased between 2017 and 2020. In Richmond, there are 21 percent more people experiencing homelessness today than three years ago. In Surrey, homelessness is up 7 percent. It’s up 21 per- cent on the North Shore. And in Burnaby, it’s up 80 per- cent over the last three years. [2:15 p.m.] My question to the Premier is this.

When will the Pre- mier stop passing the buck; when will he show some lead- ership, and when will he accept responsibility for the fact that, under his watch, the situation with homelessness is far, far worse today than it was three years ago? That only serves to fail the most vulnerable citizens in our province. It fails small businesses and, ultimately, it’s failing neigh- bourhoods right across this province. Hon. S. Robinson:I want to thank the member oppos- ite for the question. We certainly inherited a significant challenge around homelessness and unaffordability in housing.

We’ve been working diligently since we formed government to make sure that we had a plan in place. We have a ten-year plan, $7 billion to invest. Homelessness continues to be a challenge, because you can’t fix 16 years of bad in three short years. However, I can say that we have housed well over 2,500 people in our supportive housing program in the last three years. We certainly have more to do, and that’s why we have a ten-year plan. We’re working diligently to make sure that we have the supports to make sure that people continue to be housed.

With our supportive housing program, we’ve done, cer- tainly, some research and analysis, and we’ve discovered that well over 90 percent of people continue to stay housed because we’re bringing in those wraparound services, and we look forward to continuing to deliver for the most mar- ginalized in our communities. Mr. Speaker: The member for Kamloops–South Thompson on a supplemental. T.

Stone:Well, Audra of Audra’s Image and Wellness Spa in Kamloops had this to say to me the other day: “Only a week ago, one of my clients was walking to my spa and had to step over and around two people with needles in their arms on the sidewalk at 2 p.m. in the afternoon on a weekday. She was horrified. I could go on and on about the vomit and urine and needles and drugs I have found at my door daily.

My husband and myself are worried for my safety, and I’m worried I will lose clients and ultimately lose my business. ” It’s time for the Premier to get real about what’s actually happening in this province under his watch. Homelessness and overdoses are up. Encampments are bigger than ever before. The government’s warehousing of people in hotels is an unmitigated disaster. Entire neighbourhoods are left to deal with daily break-ins, surging property crime, needles in playgrounds and threats to their personal safety. This is tearing communities apart in every corner of this province.

Even the Premier said recently: “It’s not just Vic- toria and Vancouver where there are challenges with homelessness. It’s Nanaimo, Smithers, Kamloops, Kelow- na, right across the province. ” Again, my question to the Premier is this. When will the Premier admit that homelessness, encampments, addic- tion, related crime...? All of this is much worse in B.C. today than it was when his government assumed power three years ago. And when will he step up and provide the needed 24-7, on-site supports that the most vulnerable citizens, the most at-risk citizens in this province need in order to get better? Hon. S.

Robinson: We’ve canvassed this series, these Monday, August 10, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12311

kinds of questions, for quite some time. Homelessness has been a significant challenge in this province for many, many, many years, well before we formed government. Frankly, it’s because the provincial government — historic- ally, the B.C. Liberals — didn’t do what they needed to do on this file, and we have started to make progress. We’ve absolutely started to make progress. In fact, there was an

article recently in theTimes Col- onist, where the reporter went and interviewed Ross and Shelby, two people living in the Travelodge. This is what the

article had to say about Ross and Shelby: “Since mov- ing into the building, each has received long-overdue med- ical care from on-site nurses and doctors. Shelby had pain- ful abscesses in her teeth fixed, and Ross has been put on anxiety medication…. ‘We’re not doing illegal activities anymore, ’ said Ross, adding that their reliance on street drugs has dramatically reduced. ‘We are absolutely becom- ing people who are trying to make change…. ’” Their long-term goal, the long-term goal for Ross and Shelby, is to get clean, to stabilize and perhaps move into a building where they can become resident caretakers.

They have an opportunity to settle. [2:20 p.m.] I don’t want to minimize the impact and the challenges and the concerns that local businesses have been experien- cing long before we became government. There certainly has been challenges around homelessness. That’s why, as part of what we do, B.C. Housing goes out and meets with these businesses to address their concerns, to meet with neighbours to address their concerns, to bring people together so that we can help people find their path, find their life again. GOVERNMENT ACTION ON HOMELESSNESS AND ADDICTION ISSUES J.

Thornthwaite:It is very clear that this government has no comprehensive plan to deal with homelessness or the underlying mental health and addictions that fuel this crisis. Instead, the government continues to warehouse people, hoping the crisis will just solve itself. Ali of Downtown Florist on Davie Street says the situ- ation has put everyone — those in need, him and his employees, his customers and all visitors to the neighbour- hood, all of them — at risk. I’m quoting what he said. “My wife and I can no longer leave only one person at the shop, as we fear for the other partner’s safety. ” This is outrageous.

When will this minister admit that warehousing people without 24-7 supports is a complete failure? Hon. S. Robinson:It continues to be very disingenuous for the members opposite to suggest that people are without support. In fact, their own colleague, a colleague from Richmond South Centre, points out, in her com- munity, that our program delivers these sorts of services. She points it out in a letter to the editor. Again, I read this into the record some weeks ago. But it just seems that the members don’t want to believe it, because they didn’t come up with the idea. They didn’t initiate it. We took action.

We are in 30 different communities delivering supports for people. The member for Richmond South Centre, again, reminds everybody in her com- munity that this is an opportunity to build housing that matters, that this supportive housing matters to people. She talks about how it is important that people have a sense of belonging, that people have a place to lay their head, that we continue to work with people. I know that there are members opposite that have acknowledged the value this has in their communities.

The member for Parksville-Qualicum also acknowledged — certainly to me, I think it was, in estimates not too long ago — how grateful she is to have this kind of housing with the supports in her community. I know that the members know that that’s, in fact, the case. I think that’s really, frankly, quite disappointing. Mr. Speaker:The member for North Vancouver–Sey- mour on a supplemental. J. Thornthwaite:Minister, everything has gotten worse under your government. Y ou cannot hide from your own record. Y ou used to say you had all the answers. Now you’re in government, and everything is worse.

Homeless- ness is up. Community disorder is up. Break-ins are up. Vandalism is up. Assaults are up. Open drug use and drug paraphernalia in parks and playgrounds are up. Calls to police are up. Overdoses are up. In fact, May and June saw the highest number of over- doses ever, under this government’s watch. Paramedics reported that on June 26, they revived a record 131 people from dying of an overdose on that one day, under this min- ister’s watch. In July alone, they answered over 2,700 over- dose calls. That’s 87 overdoses each day.

Even the NDP Vancouver mayor admits that it’s worse than ever under this government. When will this minister finally admit her failures and get on with a comprehensive mental health and addictions strategy that actually gets people well so that businesses and residents can get on with their lives? [2:25 p.m.] Hon. S. Robinson:Well, in case the member has for- gotten, we are living in a pandemic. Those who are most vulnerable…. We took action right away, because we knew the kind of risk that they were under. Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members. Members, the minister has the floor. Thank you. Hon. S.

Robinson:I’m sure that the members oppos- 12312 British Columbia Debates Monday, August 10, 2020

ite would appreciate how important it was that we reduced the shelter space, that we made sure that people were able to physically distance. That’s exactly what we did. The impact of that has had significant challenges on those most vulnerable and in communities right around this province. We have also taken very significant action to lease hotel space so that we could continue to house people as best we can. Again, we are continuing to deliver on services. There’s absolutely more to do.

I look forward to continuing to make sure that people have their needs met so that com- munities and businesses can also have the opportunity to flourish. But we are all in this together, and we all have to work together in order to address these significant challenges. [End of question period.] Tabling Documents Mr. Speaker:I have the honour to table reports from the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General and from the Attorney General regarding certain regulations made, which are required to be laid before the House pur- suant to the COVID-19 Related Measures Act.

Statements CLARIFICATION OF REMARKS MADE DURING BILL 13 COMMITTEE STAGE DEBATE Hon. D. Donaldson:During committee stage of Bill 13, on July 15, 2020, the Attorney General, speaking on behalf of myself due to technical difficulties with my virtual con- nection, advised the member of the opposition that the new

section 117.1 of the Water Sustainability Act had been reviewed by the Privacy Commissioner. I would like to make a clarification on this point for the record. As per the required process for developing legisla- tion, ministry staff consulted with the privacy, compliance and training branch within the Ministry of Citizens’ Ser- vices, which advised that there were no concerns with the proposed legislation and that consultation with the Office of the Information and Privacy Commissioner was, there- fore, not recommended. Reporting of Bills BILL 23 — WORKERS COMPENSATION AMENDMENT ACT, 2020 S.

Chandra Herbert:Pursuant to the resolution of the House of July 29, 2020, I rise to present a report regarding Committee of the Whole proceedings on Bill 23, intituled Workers Compensation Amendment Act 2020, which took place on July 31, 2020. Committee of the Whole on Bill 23 reports the bill com- plete without amendment. The results of the division taken by the committee under

section 15 of the aforenoted resolution of the House are attached to the report. Mr. Speaker:When shall the bill be read a third time? Hon. M. Farnworth:Later today. Orders of the Day Hon. M. Farnworth:I call third reading of Bill 23. Third Reading of Bills BILL 23 — WORKERS COMPENSATION AMENDMENT ACT, 2020 Hon. H. Bains:I move third reading of Bill 23. Mr. Speaker:The question is third reading of Bill 23, Workers Compensation Amendment Act, 2020. Division has been called.

Pursuant to the sessional order adopted on June 22, 2020, this division will be deferred until 30 minutes prior to the end of this sitting day. Hon. M. Farnworth:I call the estimates of the Ministry of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations. [2:30 p.m.] Committee of Supply ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF FORESTS, LANDS, NATURAL RESOURCE OPERATIONS AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (continued) The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); R. Chouhan in the chair. The committee met at 2:31 p.m. On Vote 29: ministry operations, $489,126,000 (continued). J.

Rustad:This afternoon we’re going to go through a number of MLAs that are going to be asking questions. We’re hopeful that we’ll keep things fairly tight with short questions and, hopefully, short answers. We’ d like to be able to get through as many of my colleagues’ questions as possible. With that, I will turn it over to the member for Cariboo North to continue the estimates debate. Monday, August 10, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12313

C. Oakes:Thank you for the opportunity to raise some concerns from constituents from Cariboo North. This past year, since spring freshet, has been a signific- antly challenged one for much of our region. So my first question is around flooding. We certainly appreciate the significant efforts of the B.C. Wildfire Service. From 2017, the work that they’ve done on the ground has been signi- ficant, with FireSmart and such, in our communities. It’s been wonderful. I’m wondering why the policy has changed where B.C.

Wildfire Service no longer will protect people’s private properties when a flood occurs. [2:35 p.m.] Hon. D. Donaldson:Thanks for the question from the member for Cariboo North. The B.C. Wildfire Service personnel have been deployed as usual this year. There’s been no change in policy. I believe the member will probably come up with an example that she wants to bring to my attention. The deployment of the Wildfire Service personnel has always been based, and most recently based, on recommenda- tions in consultation with emergency management B.C. and the local governments. C.

Oakes: We did receive a policy change during this flooding season. But I will go to a specific example to demonstrate the change that has happened. Spring freshet began very early in the Cariboo. Nazko specifically is an area that has been ground zero — in 2017 with the wildfires, 2018 with the wildfires. Since the wild- fires, we’ve experienced significant flooding year after year.

At the end of March, Chief Alec, the Chief of Nazko, came to my office to request specific assistance with the flooding that they were very much concerned with and, specifically around COVID-19, ensuring that we were very much prepared for the inevitable flooding that would occur during the freshet. We received several challenges. First, it took a significant amount of time to get back from the province to the Chief. First, it appeared that there didn’t appear to be concerns about freshet this year. Then we found out, actually, that the flights to look at the snowpacks actually didn’t occur because of COVID-19.

But the people on the ground certainly knew freshet would happen and certainly knew that there would be challenges. [2:40 p.m.] We put in a request to get a sandbagging machine, and again, one of the challenges we received was that we couldn’t receive a sandbagging machine until flooding actually occurred. The challenge is that we knew we needed to prepare. We don’t have, in some of our remote areas, the amount of people necessary. We appreciate that when the weekend hit and the flooding did occur, as people on the ground pre- dicted, living in Nazko, that we were able to get the B.C. wildfire crews out there.

The challenge in our remote areas is that it often takes many hours for these crews to get out into these areas. The difference was that…. The change now is that when flood- ing occurs in our communities — and B.C. Wildfire Ser- vice is now the agency responsible for doing the flood pro- tection — no longer are private properties protected. Y ou know, I look at Grand Forks, or I look at any place across British Columbia that has experienced flooding. One would imagine that when flooding occurs, the province and public safety would step up and actually help community members resolve that.

At that point, we were advised that B.C. Wildfire Service…. The policy has shifted to where it doesn’t protect private property. The private property owners were on their own for flood protection. We were certainly able to access, eventually, sandbag- ging machines and sandbags, and we appreciate that. This was prior to the EOC being set up through the Cari- boo regional district, because, again, Nazko is ground zero and usually occurs before some of these programs are put in place. But it still leaves Nazko in a very pre- carious situation. The question is why…?

Does the province protect private property from flooding and wildfires? That’s the first. Well, I’ll leave it there, and I’ll see what the minister says. [2:45 p.m.] Hon. D. Donaldson:There’s been no change to policy in how we deploy B.C. Wildfire Service personnel when it comes to floods and wildfires. We respond based on recommendations from EMBC and from local govern- ments in specific situations. The river forecast centre was able to operate smoothly this spring on modelling around the spring freshet, despite COVID-19. We’ve added crews in the Cariboo this year.

As I said, the protection of private property through flooding and wildfires…. Those priorities are set by EMBC. Our stance hasn’t changed. In fact, on wildfires, the member might be aware that just last week we had a tactical evacuation due to wildfire in the Interior, specific- ally in order to protect lives and private property. C. Oakes: I’m still trying to get a clear answer from this minister. When it comes to flooding, does the B.C. Wildfire Service have the ability to go and protect private homes? What I think I heard the minister say is that it’s up to EMBC whether private homes are protected.

If that is the case, my question is…. When we heard that private homes were not going to be protected this spring freshet, we did put in a request, because we have both Team Rubicon in the Cariboo region and the Canadian Rangers. Both came to my office to offer their assistance. They’re very well equipped. They are well trained. They are here in our communities. They are here, ready and willing to protect the citizens and to protect our property. 12314 British Columbia Debates Monday, August 10, 2020

If the province isn’t willing to step up and provide the necessary protection that the people in the Cariboo deserve…. If that decision was, in fact, made, then, through EMBC not to protect private properties, why did the government not sign off then on the ability to have volunteer agencies within our community that were wait- ing for the government to sign off — to say that they could actually go in and help private properties with the flood- ing? [2:50 p.m.] Hon. D. Donaldson:Once again, the priorities about deployment of the B.C.

Wildfire individuals, depending on floods and wildfires and around private properties, is set through EMBC, so those questions are best addressed to the Minister of Public Safety. Of course, EMBC and local governments set those priorities, so if there’s private prop- erty that is needed to be protected during a flood — I think that was the specific question from the member — then the deployment of our personnel would be dependent on EMBC and local government priorities.

As far as the signing off — I think that’s the way the member described the involvement of rangers, and I’m not familiar with the other organization, Rubicon — we haven’t heard of that request. If there was that kind of request, that sign-off would be through EMBC, so ques- tions are best directed to that ministry on that question. C. Oakes: I’m deeply disappointed with the minister’s response and the fact that there appears to be tiers of pri- ority in the province of British Columbia. I think it’s dis- gusting that government would suggest that whether you are….

Everyone should have equal access to public safety in the province of British Columbia. It shouldn’t be deter- mined that one person gets one access to certain priorities. “Oh, you might get some protection for flooding; but you live somewhere else, and you don’t. ” The fact that there are services and agencies on the ground in our communities willing to step up and help and the only way that they can do that is if this minister signs off on it is, I think, tragic. I think every constitu- ent….

Y ou know, I would encourage the MLAs who are watching this to ask yourselves: how would you feel if some of your constituents might have access to public safety protection in your communities and others won’t, depending on who’s prioritizing and who is making those recommendations? I did ask EMBC, and, yes, we get guided to you, Minis- ter, because, as I mentioned before, before states of emer- gency get put in place and before emergency centres are put up through the regional district, we rely on your min- istry to put those things in action.

Nazko was prior to the local emergency office being put in place, through the regional district. It’s deeply disturbing, and quite frankly, it’s not good enough that you point fingers and provide lip service for people who pay taxes and who should have access to the exact same services as anywhere else in the province. I will go, because my time is limited. The other challenge that we’ve had with over 200 areas that have been impacted this past year by spring freshet…. Many of our main high- ways have experienced landslides because we did not have proper preparation prior to the spring freshet.

So we had significant road damage. [2:55 p.m.] Now we’re in a situation where so many of our com- munities are relying on poor service roads as their main roads in and out of their communities. Most of our com- munities are ranching communities, and on our core service roads, the cattle liners will not bring the cattle in. So now we have whole communities that are impacted by the fact that we can’t get cattle from ranch back to communities or we can’t get cattle out to range and we can’t get food in to these communities. What we get…. Well, it’s a forest service road.

Then it gets turned over to the Ministry of Transportation, but it still has forest ser- vice road standards. The two organizations…. We need some leadership, and we need some of these organizations working in coordin- ation to make sure that these communities aiding the eco- nomy is able to continue. It’s a significant impact on not just the agricultural sector.

The mining sector, the forest sector, all of these folks, and the people, quite frankly, who live in these communities are now competing on forest service roads as their main highway, all because the gov- ernment didn’t put resources in prior to spring freshet. Now we’re in the challenges that we are. What type of coordination is being done on the ground between, obviously, the Ministry of Transportation, the Ministry of Forests, Lands, Natural Resources and the Ministry of Agriculture to make sure that the significant challenges that we’ve experienced in the Cariboo from 2017 right through to now gets resolved?

Quite frankly, it keeps getting worse under this minister and under this government. Our citizens are tired of, year after year, being second-rate citizens and not getting the necessary resources put on the ground. Now their lives are signific- antly altered. What kind of cross-coordination is happening, instead of everyone pointing the finger, like the minister did earli- er, and saying that it’s somebody else’s minister’s respons- ibility? [3:00 p.m.] Hon. D. Donaldson:Thank you to the member. She asked a number of questions; I’ll start with the coordina- tion.

Y es, we coordinate under the auspices of emergency management B.C. When we anticipate a freshet challenge, we coordinate with the Ministry of Agriculture staff, Environment staff, Transportation staff, local government, First Nations. We have a $3 million capital budget for forest service road pro- Monday, August 10, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12315

jects in the Cariboo in the coming fiscal. We’re spending $784,000 on operations or maintenance on forest service roads in the Cariboo. We prioritize and support connec- tions to communities, as part of protecting from road fail- ures, with the Ministry of Transportation and with forest service roads. As far as the member’s statements about being disap- pointed in the response — she used some terminology I’ d call tiers of priority — I want to remind her that the policy hasn’t changed with the deployment. It’s the same as when she was a member of cabinet.

If the member had a prob- lem, she could have raised it then. Obviously, she didn’t. The policy remains the same, because it’s working. C. Oakes: Just maybe in closing, there has been a change in the policy on how it is working on the ground. I do strongly encourage him — I know that the minister is from the north — and would just ask that he refresh and talk to the folks on the ground on how things are working, that there have been some changes. Ultimately, at the end of the day, I just want public safety for all of our citizens.

When we have other agencies like Team Rubicon and the Canadian Rangers willing to step up and help, I think we should be seeking them. My final comment — it’s not a question, just maybe a comment: I continue to have significant challenges and concerns about the approach that the government has taken around the spruce beetle. I think we’re going to be in significant challenges. I understand the speaking points that the minister raised earlier, but I think it’s far more pressing. I would ask the minister to double down and look at what’s really happening on the ground, the same as with the Douglas fir.

Just on permitting, going from FrontCounter in our community, a lot of the permitting has been moved to Wil- liams Lake. To go from 60 days to 180 and up to 200-plus days under this government is significantly challenging for our region and for our economic development. Finally, we’re getting calls from folks who are getting bills for water licences in the agricultural sector. They get their bills for the water licence year after year and don’t even have their permit yet. It’s great that the government wants your money, but we’re just not getting the permit- ting done.

With that, I’ll pass my time over to my next colleague. T. Wat:Thank you to the minister for giving me this opportunity to ask a question that the Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture refused to answer. She referred me to the minister here. [3:05 p.m.] Two years ago on February 1, 2018, this minister, together with the Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture, signed an OIC to include 21 Chinese-Canadian heritage sites in the Chinese Canadian Heritage Properties Regu- lation. These 21 sites were chosen from a list of 77 places nominated by British Columbians in 2015.

I would like to ask the minister: will he tell the House why he made the decision to include the 21 places in the Provincial Heritage Register back in 2018? Hon. D. Donaldson:The 21 heritage sites were selected after a public engagement process with affected com- munities — in this case, going back to theChinese His- torical Wrongs Consultation Final Report that recommen- ded legacy initiatives.

The evaluation process followed a values-based model, ensuring that the evaluators reviewed the nominated places based on how they represent the overarching heritage values of the Chinese-Canadian community in British Columbia. The evaluation was guided by a contact statement that provided a

summary of history of the role of Chinese Canadians in the develop- ment of British Columbia. That was in answer to the ques- tion of why those 21 heritage sites were chosen. [3:10 p.m.] To finish off on this answer, I want to make sure the member understands that our staff is fully aware that the heritage registry didn’t reflect the full scope of B.C. ’s his- tory, so the program has made an effort to rectify that. This is one of the measures being taken. T. Wat: Thank you, Minister, for your very detailed explanation of why you made that decision.

I certainly applaud you for continuing the work of the former gov- ernment. It happened I was the Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism. Y ou already cited why you did so. It’s because formal recognition of these historic places builds awareness of our shared heritage. As I said, I really applaud the minister for doing that.

But unfortunately, two years later, on February 2 of this year, after I was so pleased that this minister continued the legacy initiative started by the former government, the minister, who is responsible for the heritage act, decided to repeal the Chinese Canadian Heritage Properties Reg- ulation, overturning his own initiative to include these 21 Chinese heritage sites. I’ d really appreciate if the minister could enlighten this House as to why he overturned his own initiative. [3:15 p.m.] Hon. D. Donaldson:Sorry. I apologize for the delay.

We just wanted to make sure that we had an accurate answer to the member’s question. Specific to the question about the OIC, what we did is we repealed the requirement to seek an OIC every time we sought to recognize the cultural heritage of a cultural com- munity. It was an administrative change that removed the specific OIC for the Chinese-Canadian recognitions and instated a new power that allows government to record all provincially recognized historic places on the registry, 12316 British Columbia Debates Monday, August 10, 2020

including Chinese-Canadian ones, without having to seek an OIC each time. What this did was make it easier to recognize the herit- age value of places and delegated that ability to staff rather than having to come with an OIC every time. T. Wat: Given the time limitation, actually, I’m not happy with the minister’s response, because I have one final question. But I would like to put it on record that I will send all my questions in written form to the minister. Hopefully, the minister can respond to me as soon as pos- sible, because I’m supposed to ask this question.

But given the limitation of time, my colleagues also have a lot of questions that they want to address to this minister. If, according to what the minister said, this is only an administrative kind of arrangement…. I did look at the website, and I see the provincial historic places of Brit- ish Columbia. I see that there are 59 B.C. heritage sites there. I wonder how many Chinese heritage sites are in this 59. Are the 51 that we recognized two years ago there or not? Hon. D. Donaldson:I’ll see if I can get an answer to that quickly, and if not, I will respond in writing. I can commit to doing that, to the member.

But let’s see if we can get an answer quickly on it first. J. Sturdy: I have three questions for the minister — quite different ones. The first one is around Mount Meager and the Meager massif. The minister should be aware that in 2010, there was the largest rock avalanche in Canadian history, drop- ping 50 million cubic metres of material into the Lillooet River. This has resulted in tremendous amounts of sed- iments making their way down the river.

We have what they’re calling a sediment slug that is making its way down into the more populated areas of the valley. [3:20 p.m.] It’s depositing, the estimates are, something in the neighbourhood of 400,000 cubic metres a year of material into areas that are protected by dike-protective structures. The area 4 piece, which is a particular concern, run from Miller Creek, down the Lillooet River and then to Pember- ton Creek and protects the bulk of the improvements in the Pemberton Valley. This was upgraded in 2003 to a one-in-200-year pro- tective structure.

Well, because of the sedimentation in the river, the aggradation, we are finding…. The estimates now, based on cross-sections done recently, are that this one-in-200-year protective structure is now a one-in-50- year protective structure. There are obviously significant concerns that this adds tremendously to the flood risk in the Pemberton Valley. What I was wondering…. Two things to the minister. One would be: would the minister commit to a monit- oring program for the Meager Massif? We do understand that there is significant potential for additional debris flows, which could exacerbate the situation.

So the monit- oring is an important component. The second part of this question is: would the minister commit to supporting and funding a sediment removal program for certain sections of the river to try and bring back that same one-in-200-year protective structure? Hon. D. Donaldson:Y es, I’m quite familiar — as much as a minister can be — with the topic the member raises in his own constituency, because he has oftentimes talked to me about it. [3:25 p.m.] I’m going to provide some answer and also further clarification.

When the member talks about the monit- oring program and “commit to a monitoring program, ” I just want to make sure that he’s asking about the monit- oring program around further potential slides on Mount Meager. On sediment removal, EMBC has been leading that public engagement process around that and leading that process. I know there have been public meetings in the member’s constituency. Much of it has to deal with the amount of sediment that is continually coming down and our ability to manage natural elements and natural pro- cesses.

The understanding I have is that at public meetings, it’s been presented, through EMBC or scientific data, that we don’t have the ability to remove enough sediment to make a difference because the sediment buildup is so frequent and so robust. EMBC, as I said, is leading this, because it has to do with public safety around where buildings are being located, and working with local government on that.

As far as the monitoring, now that the member has indicated to me through nodding that it is the monitoring program on the actual mountain to determine the risk of potential slides coming, I’ll just get back to him on that part of the question. J. Sturdy:While I recognize EMBC has some part to play in this, some of this is very much a maintenance program. Y es, there is a tremendous amount of material that needs to come out of the river, but there are areas that are acute and can make a difference in terms of overtopping existing structures. So I think it’s important that we continue.

What I could take from what the minister said is that we are just going to abandon any strategy to mitigate some of these challenges. That would be alarming to the people of the Pemberton Valley. I think the minister would well understand that. I’ll look forward to getting additional information in the future — perhaps a briefing from staff. The second issue I’ d like to raise is the one of Crown land lease rates for residential properties.

Specifically, in the Paradise Valley and the Squamish Valley, we have received numerous complaints about the exorbitant rent Monday, August 10, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12317

increases or lease rate increases for these properties over the last number of years. The government, as the minister well is aware, has limited private property owners to CPI as a maximum increase to rents, essentially, but it doesn’t hold itself to the same standard. What we’re seeing are situations where leasehold properties are seeing — it’s very, very significant in some cases — massive increases in lease rates. I wondered if the minister would consider limiting any increases to CPI as they do to other private property owners. [S. Gibson in the chair.] [3:30 p.m.] The Chair:Minister. Hon. D.

Donaldson:Thank you, Chair, and welcome to the chair. Going back, first off, to the previous question around sediment control, I commit to discussing with staff the topic raised about acute areas that could potentially receive attention. I’m not saying that the situation is being “abandoned, ” using the member’s word. I’ll com- mit to that and ensuring that the member is involved in those discussions around acute areas needing attention on the sediment load. As far as Crown land lease rates, our staff are aware of the situation the member has described.

Of course, impacted tenure holders have the ability — as all impacted tenure holders have — to appeal their property assessment with the B.C. Assessment Authority to reduce the size of the tenure area or dispute the rent by following the process outlined in the Crown land dis- position price resolution procedure, which I think the member is focusing his question on. Our lands branch is reviewing our pricing and looking at the pricing methods and how we calculate rents for ten- ure holders on Crown land used for residential purposes, to better reflect affordability.

That work will be done in the next six to 12 months. It will also include the impacts I believe the member was alluding to under the consumer price index, under the Residential Tenancy Act, which is

an act not under our ministry. We believe it’s under the Ministry of Municip- al Affairs and Housing. That review will also bring into account the changes under that act and how that could make a difference on it to better reflect the pricing. [3:35 p.m.] J. Sturdy:Thank you to the minister for that answer. An interesting twist to this is that when the tenant appeals to the assessment board, the only circumstance where the tenant is actually appealing the assessment versus the owner or the landlord appealing the assess- ment…. Just recently in one of these situations, the appeal was not successful.

When they went to appeal that application, it’s only the landlord or only the owner that can appeal, and the FLNR has declined to appeal on behalf of the tenant. It is a complex circumstance and difficult for the tenants. I’m sure that they, as a philo- sophy, would like to see government hold itself to the same standard that they hold other landlords to. The last item is one…. I apologize if we’ve covered some of this last week. It’s with regard to First Nations licensees in the Sea to Sky forest district.

I’ve spoken to numerous licensees — the Sḵwx̱ wú7mesh forestry, Tsetspa7, the Líl̓ wat — and they’re all having the same problem. They point out that the large licensees in the province don’t invest a nickel in this region because this region is one of the highest cost producers in the world. They have numerous concerns about fibre recovery zones, about the remote locations which do not get addi- tional costs. Tsetspa7 actually has a camp that costs them $5 a metre, give or take, and none of that is considered in stumpage fees.

Then, of course, generally, the stumpage fees — the complaint here I have is that the recent coast appraisal manual changes have intensified the distortion of the system. Again, I recognize we may well have covered much of this for the coast, but one question or suggestion that I was asked to forward…. There is a tremendous amount of uncertainty, and there may be delays around getting fibre to market. It may be a function of fires. It may be a func- tion of water, low water, to be able to remove, especially down the Harrison side, or get the logs from the sort to market.

There are potential delays, and there’s a high level of uncertainty. So it may be some time between when the budgets were created and the cutting permit was submit- ted, between that time and the time that the product actu- ally gets to market. The question, on behalf of these First Nations licensees, is: will the government or will the minister consider aligning the stumpage fees with the cutting permits? For as long as that cutting permit is in place, can the stumpage rate be maintained at the level it was when the cutting permit was issued?

We have situations where we might see a cutting per- mit issued, yet the logs don’t get to market for six or eight months for a variety of different reasons, after which point the stumpage rates could have changed sig- nificantly and made the block uneconomic. They do rec- ognize, of course, that this can go both ways. But they would very much like to have this one piece of uncer- tainty removed from the equation. [3:40 p.m.] Hon. D. Donaldson:Well, I’m happy to report that lumber prices are at a near-record high right now. I think 12318 British Columbia Debates Monday, August 10, 2020

the spot price was $648 today. That, combined with the lowering of stumpage rates July 1 — 18 percent on the coast year to year and 35 percent in the Interior year to year — has definitely made it more attractive for harvest- ing activities, because the mills have a demand for their product. That’s making a difference around the province. As far as the specifics on the suggestion that the mem- ber relayed on behalf of his constituents, I think he described it well when saying it cuts both ways. Y es, there’s a three-month time between how stumpage is calculated.

In some cases, that benefits those who are harvesting, and in other cases, it doesn’t benefit them. So for some, the stumpage is too high. For some people, the stumpage we charge in the province they see as being too low. We’re not going to be changing the process at this time, especially in light of the litigation that’s underway under the softwood lumber dispute. The risk that changing in the manner that the member presents would create in invest- igation by the U.S. Department of Commerce could be very detrimental to the industry.

The Chair:Member for West Vancouver–Sea to Sky, there is another member who would like to ask some ques- tions, but please proceed. J. Sturdy:Thank you to the minister. I think they just would like to be able to budget with certainty — and the variability of the problem. The Chair:Y ou may return to other queries later. M. Morris:In the last 18 months, nearly 600 people in Mackenzie have lost their jobs due to mill closures and shutdowns that we have up there — that, while nearly a million cubic metres of wood is leaving annually for com- munities outside of Mackenzie.

So it’s pretty frustrating for the folks in the town to have a log yard right there, and all the logs are leaving town. In a letter I got back from the minister or from the min- ister’s office about a month ago, it stated that the Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development is well aware of the situation in Mackenzie — and I’m glad to hear that — and is working to find solu- tions to support the forest economy there. I’m wondering if the minister can go over anything that he’s done recently. This is a train that’s been coming down the tracks now for a couple of years.

I’m just wondering if he can relate to us and the people in Mackenzie that are watching this as to what he has done and what he is doing to help the folks in Mackenzie maintain the forest sector there. [3:45 p.m.] Hon. D. Donaldson:Thank you to the member for Prince George–Mackenzie. Y es, we were both at that Mackenzie Matters rally a year ago. We know the frustra- tion of workers who are losing their jobs and, at the same time, seeing logs leaving their area. Of course, the accur- ate number is 750,000 cubic metres over five years, leav- ing the area.

Nonetheless, that’s a difficult pill to swallow when you see a mill being shut and the logs going else- where — in this case, benefiting jobs in other communit- ies, like Prince George. The member well knows that this isn’t, as he described it, “a train coming down the tracks in the last couple of years. ” Tying fibre to local mills was something that was in legislation before the B.C. Liberals changed that legislation back in 2003, which has a direct impact on the logs leaving Mackenzie to other mills in other communities. That was a change made under the previous government.

As far as what’s been done lately, there’s a long list, but I’ll just focus on a couple of items that have assisted in the Conifex mill restarting — 160 direct jobs there. That restart was July 6, I believe. The ability to restart was due to great work done by ministry staff for that area — for instance, a chart area reallocation process that enabled more fibre to be accessible at an economic level for Con- ifex. The continuing log-cost-driver initiative that’s been ongoing for the last number of months will be making an impact as well, but our staff are working.

That’s an example of something that’s happened recently that’s made a differ- ence for Mackenzie and a difference for 160 people directly going back to work. M. Morris:I’m happy to see the minister acknowledge that he’s had a lengthy amount of time since he’s been min- ister to do something about this, as this is a train that has been coming down the tracks for several years, according to him, and we haven’t seen much take place here. I also dispute the numbers: 750,000 or whatever that was, over five years.

Anyway, apart from that, there has been a significant amount of overharvesting in the southern reaches of the TSA, to the point that it’s had a significant impact on the green standing timber. A lot of the licensees have refused to adhere to the partitions and take the dead spruce, of which we have well over a million hectares up in that area because of the spruce beetle. What agreement has he made with Conifex? Is that impacting on the southern part of the TSA, and in an area that has already been significantly overharvested on the green side of the harvest level? [3:50 p.m.] Hon. D.

Donaldson:I’ll get to the member’s question, but his comment needs responding to. I would say that the displeasure of his constituents at seeing logs leave their community falls directly at the feet of the member when he was in government and the government of the B.C. Lib- erals chose to not attach volume into local mills. That’s very unfortunate. People in Mackenzie are suffering Monday, August 10, 2020 British Columbia Debates 12319

because of that decision by his government when they were in power. As far as the management of harvesting in the southern part of the TSA, I know that’s of high concern to the people of Mackenzie. They want to make sure that harvesting is balanced across all the TSA. We are managing that with BCTS blocks and Canfor blocks over a five-year period. Conifex, in their blocks in the southwest part of the TSA, will not exceed the partition over a five-year cut period, which is the routine cutting period around the province. These are not specific deals. This is under the chart real- location process.

The Chair:Do you have any further questions, Mem- ber? M. Morris:No, thank you, Chair. I’ll keep my com- ments to myself and turn it over to the next speaker. [3:55 p.m.] I. Paton:To the minister: thank you for your time. I’ll try and make this quick. One subject is land use in the very north part of B.C. The other is land use in the very south- ern part of B.C. My first topic would be an area a little bit north and west of Dawson Creek called the Sunset Prairie Community Pasture. Hopefully, the minister is familiar with this area. It is supervised and run by the Sunset Prairie Livestock Association.

In 1959, over 30,000 acres of grazing land up in this area were designated as grazing land for the farmers and ranchers in that area. Since then, as you can see on satellite imagery, there are hundreds and hundreds of cutblocks and dugouts and well sites and gravel roads and whatnot that have gone into this same area of grazing for cattle. Every year over 4,000 head of cattle get taken from their home farms to this community pasture. Everybody cooperates and comes and gathers up their cattle in the fall of the year.

It’s a great place for cattle to put on weight during the summer, and the farmers are able to grow their crops on a better use of land on their home farms. Two young people from Dawson Creek Secondary School have done a fantastic synopsis on the future of this. To get to the point, Minister, the petroleum and forestry industries were told back in 1959 — and there’s an agree- ment — that they would compensate the livestock associ- ation and the community pastures for the loss of grazing lands by the cattle industry from the forestry industry and the well and petroleum industry. This is not happening.

What I’m asking you today…. Is the minister familiar with the historic agreements with the lease from the forestry district and with the FLNRORD guidelines for compensation and mitigation? Will the minister commit his staff to meeting with the Sunset Prairie Livestock Asso- ciation to ensure a commitment and funding by forestry and petroleum to regenerate grass for grazing and for the replacement of aging fences, roads and corrals? Thank you. Hopefully, I could get an answer that I could relay back to the people at the Sunset Prairie Livestock Association. [4:00 p.m.] Hon. D.

Donaldson:To the member for Delta South, always good to hear from him about agriculture issues, an important part of the ministry I represent. I always enjoy hearing what he’s hearing on the ground. What I can say is we are committing that the northern ADM will meet with the Sunset Prairie Livestock Associ- ation — I believe that’s the full name that the member used — soon — in fact, I believe it’s going to be in early Septem- ber — to discuss these issues.

I know it can be a complex issue around the compens- ation piece when cattlemen in the northeast have arrived at individual agreements with other users of the land base around compensation. Over time, this has happened. As part of the work, I’ll try to bring some consistency to that. I definitely want the member to know that he can relay to the association that the assistant deputy minister for the north, the most senior manager for the lands file in the north, will be meeting with them soon. I. Paton:I’ll move on now because we are short on time. Of course, I bring this up every year.

It’s regarding Brun- swick Point lands in Delta. To remind the minister, Brun- swick Point was part of 4,000 acres of expropriated farm- land in Delta back in the late 1960s. Now, most of that land was sold back to the original farming families from whom that land was expropriated, totalling just over 3,000 acres. It went back to the original farm families. However, Brunswick Point, which is an incredibly fertile piece of farmland, which not only has the original five farming families still living there, but it is owned by the Crown. It was never sold back to those five farming fam- ilies.

It is also a very, very important migrating route for snow geese, ducks and swans, etc., and it’s a great resting area for them heading south in the wintertime. Minister, I would like to read quickly just how import- ant this is in Delta, not only to the city of Delta but to the Delta Farmers Institute, the Delta Farmland and Wildlife Trust, the Delta Agricultural Society. Here’s a quote from Mayor Harvie with the city of Delta. By the way that was a private member’s bill that I put forward last fall regarding saving Brunswick Point.

The quote is: “The intent of Bill 221 is to require that the Brunswick Point properties are kept as Crown land and leased to either the original farm families or other loc- al farmers for a minimum lease term of 20 years. Despite the current restrictions on the land use, Delta is concerned that the Brunswick Point lands could be sold to speculat- ors with no interest in farming and plans for future non- agricultural development. ” 12320 British Columbia Debates Monday, August 10, 2020

Hon. Minister, I go on to one more quote from the Delta Farmers Institute, from the president, Jack Bates: “We have been fortunate for over a century that the 600 acres of Brunswick Point with its fertile soil and proximity to the ocean has produced high-quality vegetable crops while providing habitat and feed for millions of migratory birds. The community needs to know that this farmland will remain as a public heritage asset in its natural environment and feed our population. It is an integral component of Delta’s 22,000 acres of agricultural land. ” Hon.

Minister, we’ve been kicking this around for too many years now. The Tsawwassen First Nation, right next door, had their treaty. Good for them. They’ve gone ahead. They’re doing some great economic things. But the borderline has to be drawn so that we don’t have any more Amazon warehouses creeping on to our farmland, which has happened. But we don’t want it to happen any further.

To the minister: will you commit today to agree with my statements that this land rightfully should be sold back to the original farm families who still are on the land or, at very least, this land should remain as agriculture only and be held in perpetuity by the province for agriculture and wildlife habitat and be leased back to Delta farmers with long-term leases? [4:05 p.m.] Hon. D. Donaldson:Thank you to the member for rais- ing this topic. Once again, I’ve become familiar with it not simply through staff briefings within the ministry I repres- ent but through his advocacy efforts as well.

So I congrat- ulate him on keeping it on the front burner. What I can commit to…. I mean, this is farmland that’s in the ALR, which is under the purview of the Ministry of Agriculture, and perhaps the member canvassed this topic with ministers in his critic role. But what I can say is that our government has no intention of removing this land from the ALR, and that includes my ministry. It’s not necessarily the lead agency on that, but we have no inten- tions of advocating for the removal of this from the ALR and want to see it stay in the ALR.

As far as strategy for the future of the land in the ALR, we are in discussions, and staff have reached out — and the member probably knows this — to the city of Delta and Tsawwassen First Nation to assess their interests, once again, and review with the families, as well, potential solu- tions. We’re doing that as well. I guess the certainty that the member is looking for is part of the answer I gave — that this land, as far as my min- istry is concerned and the government is concerned, needs to remain in the ALR. I.

Paton:One more quick question on the same subject. [4:10 p.m.] My office received a letter about Brunswick Point from Mr. Coburn back on July 31, and actually, shockingly, we found out, with a map that came along with it, that the province recently sold, back in November of 2019, 195 acres of farmland in and around Brunswick Point to TFN, Tsawwassen First Nation. I do have a map of this here, showing the parcels that were sold to Tsawwassen First Nation. It was also said in the letter that it was sold at fair market value.

The question I’m getting from a lot of our farm groups is: can we be told what the fair market value was of that land in November 2019? The 195 acres that were sold to TFN — what was the fair market value of that agricul- tural land? Hon. D. Donaldson:The question was: the parcels of land that were sold — what was the fair market value? The lands were sold for $18.5 million. These lands were in the ALR and will remain in the ALR. The Chair:Member for Delta South, do you have a fur- ther question at this time? I. Paton:No. Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Chair:I now recognize the member for Penticton. D.

Ashton:Thank you, hon. Chair. Appreciate it. Minister, nice to see you again. In the essence of time, I have three questions and one comment. Just to put them on the record. I would ask for responses as soon as possible from the ministry staff. Minister, the city of Penticton, for two years, has been in the precursor of negotiating the extension of a lease to facilitate some additional area for a CN tug for the marine museum park at Penticton, which contains theSS Sicam- ous and another vessel. I have two years’ worth of correspondence back and forth.

I’ll have it delivered to your office directly, today or tomorrow. Can we get an update, please? I know that time is of the essence on this lease. Two years seems to be a bit of an issue for the city, for the time that it’s taken to get to fruition on this. The second one is also a status for the renewals of the leases for both the Naramata and the Peachland yacht club basins. Dredging — I know, in Naramata, that they have to get the leases in place before they can facilitate the dredging, which is long overdue. Also, Minister, this has been going on for an extended period of time.

If ministry staff could get back to me and also the Naramata and Peachland yacht clubs on the status and when fruition might come forward. The third and last one is facilitating access across the Crown land, not through private property, as what’s tak- ing place right now, at Chute Lake. We had talked about this before. I know that there’s a concerted effort. They would like to get this solved. As we all know, there are issues regarding egress and issues regarding liability. We had talked before about the possibility

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20200810pm-Hansard-n353
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20200810pm Hansard n353
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	ca2de0c1a385bd05f619604f3d62dc6437f555bd

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