British Columbia Hansard — Tuesday, April 24, 2007

H0424pm-09

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Tuesday, April 24, 2007 Afternoon Sitting Volume 18, Number 9 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Iona V. Campagnolo, CM, OBC THIRD SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations .......................................................................................................... Hon.

John van Dongen Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ........................................................................................................ Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ................................................................................................................Hon.

Tom Christensen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining......................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Krueger Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon. Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General................................................................................................................................Hon.

John Les Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Regulatory Reform............................................ Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Minister of State for ActNow B.C. ............................................................................................................................................ Hon.

Gordon Hogg Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole.................................................................................................................................................

Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E. George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D.

Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H. James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ...................................................................................................................................................................Jo-Anne Kern Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Dan Arbic

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) .................................................................... Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)............................................................................. Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP).................................................................. Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)..........................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon.

Pat (L) .............................................................Prince George North Bennett, Bill (L) ........................................................................ East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ............................................................ Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L)................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).....................................Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP).....................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon.

Gordon (L) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)..............................................................Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ................................................. Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, David (NDP) ......................................... Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon.

Murray (L) .....................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)...........................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .......................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) ....................................................................... North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)............................................................Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ...................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) .........................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP).................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...............................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ..............................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ..............................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP).......................................................................Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................ Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) ..................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L).......................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) ............................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................ Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon.

Gordon (L).....................................................Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)........................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)...............................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP).......................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)..................................................

North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................... Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)......................................................................... Nanaimo Krueger, Hon. Kevin (L) .....................................Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)........................................................................

Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L)....................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L).............................................................. Peace River South Les, Hon. John (L)............................................................... Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP).................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L).......................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L).................................................West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .................................................. Peace River North Nuraney, John (L).............................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon. Wally, QC (L).......................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)...........................................................

Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ....................................................................................Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)...................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ............................................................. Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................ Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L).............................................................

Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L).......................................................................Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP)..................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ........................................................

Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP).........................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP)..................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ....................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) ....................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon.

Carole (L).....................................................Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) .................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L).......................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) ..................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)............................................ Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L)........................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) .................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)...................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman .......................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ...........................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North ...........................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon................................................................... John Nuraney Burquitlam.......................................................................................Harry Bloy Cariboo North..............................................................................

Bob Simpson Cariboo South..............................................................................Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ..................................................................Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas...................................................................... Hon. John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley........................................................................ Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville..............................................................Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith ................................................................. Doug Routley Delta North ...................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ............................................................................. Valerie Roddick East Kootenay................................................................................

Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin.........................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops.....................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson ............................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country.................................................................. Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ......................................................................

Sindi Hawkins Langley ...........................................................................................Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca .................................................................. John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................ Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..................................................... Michael Sather Nanaimo......................................................................................

Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville .....................................................................Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston .............................................................................Corky Evans New Westminster .................................................................. Chuck Puchmayr North Coast....................................................................................

Gary Coons North Island ...............................................................................Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour..........................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head ........................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon......................................................... Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside..............................................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Peace River North.......................................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South..................................................................... Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley .................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ............................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood.................................................................... Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...............................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George North.................................................................... Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson ............................................Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................ John Rustad Richmond Centre......................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East........................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston...........................................................................John Yap Saanich North and the Islands ............................................ Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South ........................................................................ David Cubberley Shuswap............................................................................Hon. George Abbott Skeena.......................................................................................... Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................... Hon.

Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers ................................................................Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton............................................................................... Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge.................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead ....................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley...........................................................................Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ............................................................Hon.

Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard..............................................................Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview .................................................Hon.

Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings .................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington.......................................................David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway ......................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara ........................................................... Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant........................................ Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena.........................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill...................................................................

Carole James Victoria-Hillside ...........................................................................Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary........................................................Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ........................................................Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet..................................................................................... Harry Lali

CONTENTS Tuesday, April 24, 2007 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... .............................................. 7083 Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ......................................... 7084 Assessment Statutes Amendment Act, 2007 (Bill 32) Hon. R.

Thorpe Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ............. 7084 Flicka Gymnastics Club K. Whittred Minerals North conference G. Coons Volunteer support for RCMP services M. Polak Armenian genocide A. Dix B.C. Agriculture Day V. Roddick Violence against women awareness project in Campbell River C.

Trevena Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ......................................................... 7086 Allegations of partisan media activities by Liberal staff C. James Hon. G. Campbell L. Krog M. Farnworth Hon. W. Oppal J. Horgan R. Fleming M. Karagianis J. Kwan D. Chudnovsky B. Ralston H. Lali Disclosure of documents on sale of B.C. Rail S. Simpson Hon. G.

Campbell Petitions...................................................................................................................... ............................................................... 7091 M. Sather S. Fraser

Motions on Notice.............................................................................................................. ...................................................... 7091 Referral of report on Legislature artwork depicting first nations people (Motion 49) Hon. M. de Jong M. Farnworth J. Nuraney S. Fraser B. Lekstrom J. Horgan Hon. L. Reid N. Simons D. MacKay H. Lali Hon. G. Campbell J. Kwan J. Rustad B. Simpson D. Jarvis M. Sather R. Cantelon D. Routley G. Coons Hon. K. Krueger C. James L. Krog C. Trevena

7083 TUESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 The House met at 1:34 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Introductions by Members Hon. M. de Jong: We are honoured today to have representatives from the Songhees First Nation, on whose traditional territory we occupy our time in this chamber. We have Chief Robert Sam and Councillors Frank George and Gary Albany.

I hope members will make them feel very welcome here. [1335] From the First Nations Leadership Council, the following distinguished persons are guests here in the chamber: Grand Chief Ed John from the First Nations Summit, Chief Judith Sayers from the First Nations Summit, Chief Shawn Atleo from the Assembly of First Nations, and Chief Lynda Price and Chief Robert Shintah representing the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs on the First Nations Leadership Council. I hope all members will make these very distinguished visitors welcome here today. Hon. G.

Campbell: I'm certainly pleased to have the first nations leaders with us today, particularly Chief Lynda Price. As you know, her son is one of the great hockey players that's come out of British Colum- bia. I should point out that the Montreal Canadiens are going to be his team. Having said that, I should point out that I cheer for him only when it's the Canadiens playing someone else. Today I think we should all congratulate the Van- couver Canucks as they go to Anaheim and wish them luck in the next stage of the playoffs. C. Wyse: I also would like to add my personal wel- come to a constituent of mi ne.

I have spoken in this House on at least two occasions in recognizing her son and the achievements of he r family. Indeed, I would like to extend welcome to Chief Lynda Price of the Ul- katcho First Nation community from the great area of Cariboo South. Her son fini shed as the highest draft pick of anyone here in this House — the fifth overall. Hon. S. Bond: Joining us today in the gallery are a number of members of the Northern Real Estate Board. We had the opportunity to have breakfast with them yesterday and talk about some important issues.

I know the House will want to join me in welcom- ing Glen Holling, Willy Berger, Ted Shepard, Dorothy Friesen, David Black, Marnie Scott, Dave Eaton, Shawn McLaughlin, Linda Conroy, Gary Shannon, Judy Shannon, Tom and Carolyn Bulmer, Jackie Shepard and Fay Holling. Thank you for joining us in making them very welcome to the precinct. D. Thorne: I have the pleasure today of having four friends in the precinct. I would like to introduce Jean Trask and Sam Takahashi from Langley and Pauline and Bruce Strong from Clarenville, Newfoundland.

I would like the House to give a good west coast wel- come to all of my friends from the east coast. S. Hawkins: Visiting the Legislature today are some very special guests from Kelowna and from other parts as well. We've had some really good meetings with ministers regarding a very exciting new develop- ment in Kelowna — Kelowna Mountain. I'd ask the Legislature to please help welcome from this project Mark Consiglio, Canada's and B.C.'s very own Olympic snowboarding gold medallist Ross Re- bagliati, Rick Dowding and John Harding. Would you please help me welcome them to the House today. K.

Conroy: I've been asked to make an introduction on behalf of the MLA for Nelson-Creston. He's asked me to introduce Pattie Adam from Nakusp. She is the school board chair of school district 10 from the Arrow Lakes. Please join me in making her welcome. J. Yap: I'd like to welcome to the precinct and the public gallery today a group of enthusiastic young grade 6 students from a school in my riding, Homma Elementary School. They're here to see how the Legis- lature works in their visit to Victoria. They're led by teacher Don Allison. Would the House please make them feel very welcome. S.

Fraser: They've been introduced by the minister in their important roles with the leadership council, but I'm going to introduce them as constituents: Chief Judith Sayers of the Hupacasath First Nation and Shawn Atleo, A-in-chut, from Ahousat. [1340] Hon. J. van Dongen: Today in the members' gallery we have a special delegation of visitors from Malaysia. Visiting Victoria for the first time is the hon. Fong Chan Onn, Minister of Human Resources for Malaysia. Dr. Fong has been a federally elected representative in Ma- laysia for 17 years. Accompanying him are Mrs. Fong Chan Onn, the spouse of the minister; Mr.

Chew Chong Lin, private secretary to the minister; Mrs. Hajjah Khamsiah, assis- tant secretary, internationa l section, Ministry of Hu- man Resources; Mr. Twan Haji Yunus, Director Gen- eral, industrial relations department; Mr. Yau de Pi- yau, chief executive, human resource development fund; Mr. Kalil Bin Kadir, general manager of the in- terest department, social security organization; Mr. Mat Dris Yaacob, Consul General of Malaysia in Van- couver; and Mrs. Janet Ambrose. I ask the House to please join me in giving a warm welcome to this dele- gation from Malaysia. J.

Horgan: Joining us in the gallery today is a con- stituent of mine, a poet and published author, Jane Munro, who also happens to be the granddaughter of George Southwell, who we all know is the artist of the

7084 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 murals in the rotunda. Would the House please make Jane welcome. Hon. R. Neufeld: It's not very often someone comes f r o m u p n o r t h d o w n h e r e t o v i s i t , b u t i t ' s g r e a t w h e n they do. A good friend of mine — someone who has been introduced before, but I can't resist reintroducing this person — and a constituent of mine, Dave Eaton, is well known in northeastern British Columbia and a good friend. I'd like the House to please make him welcome. Hon. W.

Oppal: Visiting the House is a dear friend of mine from the city of Richmond, Miss Janice Johnson. I'd ask that the House make her feel welcome. Hon. P. Bell: Today is Ag day in British Columbia, and we're joined by a large number of members from the B.C. Ag Council, who are committed to providing great quality products for our consumption on a day-to- day basis. So rather than naming them all, I'll certainly point out Dick Klein Geltink and Steve Thompson, and there are many, many more joining us. I would ask that the House please make them very welcome.

Introduction and First Reading of Bills ASSESSMENT STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2007 H o n . R . T h o r p e p r e s e n t e d a m e s s a g e f r o m H e r Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled As- sessment Statutes Amendment Act, 2007. Hon. R. Thorpe: I move that Bill 32, entitled As- sessment Statutes Amendm ent Act, 2007, be intro- duced and read for the first time now. Motion approved. Hon. R. Thorpe: The bill proposes a number of amendments to the proper ty assessment and assess- ment authority statutes.

The amendments in this bill reflect our commitment to continuous improvement in customer service by providing a service that meets the needs of customers, provides for fair and efficient as- sessment administration, and maximizes economic growth opportunities and job creation in British Co- lumbia. The bill proposes amendments to the Assess- ment Act and the Assessmen t Authority Act. I will elaborate on the nature of these amendments during second reading of this bill. M r .

S p e a k e r , I m o v e t h a t B i l l 3 2 b e p l a c e d o n t h e orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 32, Assessment Statut es Amendment Act, 2007, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sit- ting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) FLICKA GYMNASTICS CLUB K. Whittred: Today I rise to pay tribute to the Flicka Gymnastics Club, one of the oldest, largest and most successful gymnastics club in Canada and indeed in North America. It was founded in North Vancouver and is a fixture in my community. Flicka was estab- lished in 1962 with only two members, and 45 years later it has grown to an incredible 1,900 athletes. Flicka Gymnastics Club is not just for the elite athlete; it is a club for all ages.

It offers classes for two-year-olds, moms and tots, through to seniors. [1345] Flicka is a non-profit organization with a volunteer board of directors, but the volunteering does not stop there. The volunteer hours of coaches, parents and the community have directly contributed to the organiza- tion's success over the years. Thousands of gymnasts have passed through the doors of Flicka, many of whom have maintained strong ties after their gymnastic days are over, and they want to give back by coaching or managing the club. The North Vancouver community is proud of the many athletes that have trai ned at Flicka.

Lise Leveille represented Canada at the 2000 Olympics, adding to a long list of successful gymnasts who have represented Canada since the 1960s. Paige Gordon, who was a diver, actually began her training with Flicka. Debra Brown, who now creates magic on the stage of Cirque du Soleil, was a choreographer at Flicka. Numerous others have represented Canada on our national team. I ask the House to join me today in celebrating the tremendous achievement of this organization and thank the many athletes, coaches and volunteers whose continued commitment contributes to its success. MINERALS NORTH CONFERENCE G.

Coons: I'd like to take this opportunity to talk about the recent Minerals North 2007 conference that occurred last week in Terrace. The Minerals North con- ference brings the minerals industry together with a broad spectrum of people in northern B.C. communities, including municipal, aboriginal representatives, business people, contractors, students and environmentalists. This year in Terrace it peaked beyond expectation with over 480 participants, and unfortunately, some were turned away from the door.

The objectives of the conference — of establishing contacts and building relationships, of informing communities about mining and exploration projects and issues, of holding a dia- logue on the impacts and benefits of mining — were met with high praise from all attendees. Mining is an important part of northwest develop- ment, and the prospects are enormous. Sustainable practices coupled with social responsibility are a key to the future of the industry. Presentation after presenta- tion outlined the potential opportunities that are on the

TUESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7085 horizon. But as the Minister of State for Mining heard and quoted, 99.9 percent of the people he talked to claimed that the electrification of Highway 37 is a ma- jor stumbling block for the region. I must add that that is something which needs immediate attention. First nations perspectives were represented. The Kitsumkalum and the Gitxsan stressed that the en- gagement process must ensure human well-being and environmental integrity are achieved and explicitly addressed.

The warm hospitality that derives from community involvement always ensures that Minerals North is distinct from any other mining conference in British Columbia. I must acknowledge the hard work of the city of Terrace and the Te rrace Economic Development Authority for their gold-medal performance. Hon. Speaker, a reminder to all in the House: bring your gold pans to Sm ithers for Mi nerals North 2008. VOLUNTEER SUPPORT FOR RCMP SERVICES M. Polak: As Canadians we are all aware of the important role played by the RCMP both across Can- ada and in our individual communities.

While their traditional role as enforcers of the law has remained, their role has expanded to include a broad range of crime prevention, safety and community support ini- tiatives. In these areas we all depend on volunteers to support and enhance the work of the RCMP. These volunteers provide office and clerical sup- port, conduct periodic audits in parking lots, visit resi- dences and businesses, participate in educational initia- tives aimed at traffic safety, assist in special events and conduct home security inspections.

Victim services volunteers provide crisis services to those who have been victims of crime. These services could not be provided without the contribution of dedicated volunteers in our communi- ties. Last year alone Lang ley volunteers gave over 30,000 hours to the community, the equivalent of more than 18 full-time employees. The annual Langley RCMP volunteer appreciation dinner honours those many volunteers without whom the valuable community outr each work of the RCMP would not be possible.

The attendance of Mayor Peter Fassbender from the city of Langley, along with Mayor Kurt Alberts from the township of Langley, served to highlight not only the significance of this recognition but also pays tribute to the partnership that involves both communities and supports the work of the RCMP in both Langleys. Mr. Speaker, through their efforts, our volunteers have helped to make Langley a safer community.

Through their hard work and dedication, they have become true ambassadors of the community. [1350] I ask the House to join me in thanking those dedi- cated volunteers in Langley and in communities throughout B.C. who work to support the RCMP as extra eyes and ears as well as caring hearts and hands. ARMENIAN GENOCIDE A. Dix: April 24 is the international day of remem- brance in recognition of the Armenian genocide. On April 24, 1915 — certainly one of the most tragic days of the 20th century — some 2,300 Armenian commu- nity leaders and intellectuals were rounded up and killed.

That was the start of what would be known as the Armenian genocide. The scope of the horror perpe- trated at that time of the Ottoman Empire is virtually impossible to comprehend — 1.5 million people killed over eight years because of who they were. There's an avalanche of evidence about the Armenian genocide, from eyewitness reports to comprehensive in- quiries. Indeed, the person who coined the word "geno- cide," Raphael Lemkin — a Polish Jew who escaped Po- land in 1941 — wrote of the slaughter of the Armenians in World War I as an example of what genocide is.

Yet there continues to be a well-financed effort to deny the Armenian genocide and the suffering of its victims. Last April this Legislature unanimously passed a motion recognizing the Armenian genocide as a crime against humanity, designating each April 24 as a day of remembrance for those who died. It was a proud day for this House and for the Armenian Canadian commu- nity in our province. By calling genocide "genocide" in the case of the Ar- menians, we in this House are doing more than com- memorating tragic events.

There are consequences when steps are not taken and genocide is not recognized, a fact which is as true in 21st century Darfur as it was in the past. After all, while the Armenian genocide was the first genocide of the 20th century, it was not the last. We need to restate on this April 24 that there's no room for dissembling or inaction in the fight against crimes against humanity. B.C. AGRICULTURE DAY V. Roddick: Today is Agriculture Day in our fair Leg- islature of British Columbia, the best place on earth.

Mother Earth, who year after year, thanks to the careful stewardship of our farmers and ranchers, keeps us su- perbly fed. She never lets us down, although we might let her down from time to time. She adapts to all the innova- tive and technological changes and methods that we have seen worldwide since 1945, without too much complaint. Modern-day agriculture has achieved unbelievable heights, which are now only slowly being recognized. In 1945 we spent 25 percent of our take-home pay on food. Today that figure is only 9 percent. In 1945, 40 percent of Canadians lived on a farm.

Today it's only 1.5 percent, and we are producing more food than ever. But are we eating better? No — not according to current statistics. Today's lifestyle is a huge part of the challenge. How do we think globally and support locally? How do busy moms, dads and kids cope? Collectively, we simply must change direction. Together, the farmers, ranchers, processors, wholesal ers, retailers and we the customers can supply the impetus to make these changes.

7086 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 Government initiatives such as an agriculture plan for the product, ActNow, B.C. Agriculture in the Class- room, along with fruit and veggies and fridges in the school programs are an excellent start. I throw out the challenge to all of you, the customers: let Agriculture Day become agriculture year. Year in and year out, from this day forward, really think about what you eat and drink, and make the conscious decision to buy B.C. products, because we still have to eat to live. VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN AWARENESS PROJECT IN CAMPBELL RIVER C.

Trevena: I'd like to talk about Prevention of Vio- lence Against Women Week, a week which — it would be remiss of me not to note — was inaugurated by a predecessor as MLA for North Island, Colin Gabelmann, when he was Attorney General. [1355] The week is being marked in Campbell River with a moving and powerful display. The Ann Elmore Transition House is hosting Project Clothesline. Tomorrow outside Zellers, a clothesline will be strung with about 50 T-shirts pinned to it. Each of those T-shirts will carry the story of violence against individual women, told by those women.

Over the last month, small support groups of sur- vivors of violence have been making the shirts. On some there are text; on others there are pictures. All tell a story of things which should not have to be told of violence against women. Violence against women is really our society's dirty little secret. Some women flee and ask why they should have to leave their homes. Some women are living dan- gerous lifestyles, are exploited and cannot escape. Some women have nowhere to go, and some women are killed. The T-shirts which are going to be on display to- morrow are colour-coded.

Red is for those women who've been sexually assaulted, beige or yellow for those who've been physically assaulted and white for those who have been murdered — women remember- ing women who've been killed. The coordinator of the transition house in Campbell River told me that she's seen an increasing number of white T-shirts this year — an increasing number of women killed. The display is bright and attractive. From a distance, it pulls people towards it, to come and see it.

It provides the opportunity to engage people to talk about the issue, to air our society's dirty little secret and to bring the horrific issue of continued violence against women to the forum. This is just one week to raise awareness of some- thing that is happening daily to too many women. Oral Questions ALLEGATIONS OF PARTISAN MEDIA ACTIVITIES BY LIBERAL STAFF C. James: Serious allegations were made in court yesterday that the Premier's senior officials, as well as ministerial assistants and caucus staff, have been ac- tively engaged in partisan media manipulation.

Fake calls, disguised voices, on-air ambushing — all out of this building. In light of these serious allegations, my question is to the Premier. Has he taken any steps to ensure that his staff are not involved in blatant partisan activity, or do we have to wait for the results of another secret investigation? Hon. G. Campbell: As we have canvassed in this House in the past and as I will repeat today, I have no intention of commenting on issues that arise during the court case that is currently before the courts. I think it's our responsibility to protect the integrity of that process.

We will do th at, and I will not be com- menting on any issues that come out of that court case while it is ongoing. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a supplemental. C. James: Well, with all due respect, this is about more than what the court heard yesterday. Liberal staff have been caught several times crossing the line. Re- member Prem Vinning? He lost his job in the Premier's office after he was caught misrepresenting himself to the media in 2005. Later that year the Deputy Premier's min- isterial assistant, Steve Vander Wal, was caught attack- ing me on CKNW, pretending to be a concerned parent.

Again, my question is to the Premier. His staff have been caught before. What is he doing to get to the bot- tom of these allegations? Hon. G. Campbell: My answer remains the same. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. G. Campbell: The fact of the matter is that we have an obligation. I think that obligation is to let this court case run to its fruition. When it has concluded, if there are issues that should be addressed, they will be addressed. But we are going to let this run to fruition prior to any comment on any issues that arise out of that court case. Mr.

Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a further supplemental. [1400] C. James: I t ' s n o t g o o d e n o u g h t o h i d e b e hi n d t h e court proceedings. The last time I checked, the Pre- mier's staff weren't part of the court proceedings. I would think that the Premier would take these allega- tions very seriously, given the past record of his own staff. I would think that th e Premier would think this was important enough to get to the bottom of the allegations.

My question, again, to the Premier: when is he go- ing to take the time, on behalf of the public of British Columbia, to look into these allegations and ensure

TUESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7087 that his staff are not doing partisan work in this build- ing? Hon. G. Campbell: Issues that arise out of the court case will not be commented on by me prior to the con- clusion of the court case. L. Krog: Yesterday we learned that Dave Basi, when he was a senior Liberal government appointee, also had a lucrative contract with the B.C. Liberal Party to conduct media monitoring activities. It appears those media monitoring acti vities turned into media manipulation efforts on daytime radio talk shows dur- ing regular office hours.

Can the Premier assure this House that no other officials or staff inside his government have similar contracts today? Hon. G. Campbell: The fact that the question is being asked in a different way does not lead to a differ- ent answer. The answer is th at while there is a court case ongoing, I will not be answering… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. G. Campbell: …questions with regards to that court case or issues that arise out of that court case. I believe that's the right approach to take to protect the integrity of that court case. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. L.

Krog: There's a court case involving individuals, but issues that are important to the public that arise out of that are not subject to any kind of parliamentary privilege. The question for a full investigation has never really been asked. Maybe we can ask this, because the Premier is well aware of this. The evidence presented indicated that he was aware of these media manipulation efforts. Indeed, his top officials, Mike Morton and Martyn Brown, ap- pear to be directly involved. When did the Premier first discover these activities, an d what did he do to put a stop to them? Hon. G.

Campbell: I don't know how I can be clearer. I will not be commenting on issues that arise… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. G. Campbell: …out of the court case prior to the conclusion of the court case. M. Farnworth: I'll be very succinct in my question. Last year the Premier added several new staff to his office — six more full-time staff just for communica- tions in the Premier's offi ce. Can the Premier assure this House today that none of those staff are engaged in any blatant partisan media manipulation? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. W.

Oppal: You know, regardless of how you camouflage these questions, they arise out of the trial that's now going on before the Supreme Court of Brit- ish Columbia. I think all members of this House should k n o w t h a t w e d o n o t c o m m e n t o n e v i d e n c e t h a t ' s b e - fore the Supreme Court of British Columbia. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. [1405] M. Farnworth: I didn't mention the term "court- house." I didn't mention th e term "trial." I didn't even ask if these employees came from the firm of Haldeman, Ehrlichman, Dean and Mitchell. What I asked, hon. Speaker….

There's a pattern in this government of senior staff misrepresenting themselves in the public. We've seen it with Prem Vinning, we've seen it with the Deputy Premier's assistant, and no w we are asking questions about staff in the Premier's office. So my question once again to the Premier is this: can he assure this House and can he assure the taxpay- ers of British Columbia that senior communications staff in his office are not working on blatant partisan media manipulation? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. W. Oppal: I know that the member opposite didn't mention the trial.

He didn't have to mention the trial. Anybody that's read the morning Province knows what he's talking about. He's talking about evidence that emerges from the trial. I want to point out one other thing, and that is that allegations are often made in court. They're not neces- sarily factual. You know, that might be news to the…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Attorney, continue. Hon. W. Oppal: That might be news to members of the opposition. Allegations are often made. Evidence is often led, but evidence often isn't factual. It may or may not be proved.

But it's not proper for those ques- tions to be raised in this House and for anybody to comment on those. As lawmakers, we should be pain- fully aware of that. J. Horgan: Last year the Premier's office added six full-time communications officers. My question is to

7088 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 the Premier. Can he advise this House what activities those six communications officers are undertaking and if, in the course of their du ties, they are involved in manipulating the media? Hon. W. Oppal: This is the same question, so I'll give the same answer. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. J. Horgan: Well, it's a sad, sad day in British Co- lumbia when you can't ask the Premier of the province what his staff do for a living. The taxpayers of British Columbia…. Interjections. J.

Horgan: I can well imagine that the Attorney is confused with all the investigations going on, but I made no reference to such investigations. I made no reference to the Supreme Court. I asked a simple question of the Premier of British Columbia, the head of the executive council. He in- creased his budget to hire six new communications offi- cers, and my question is a very, very simple one. To the Premier of British Columbia: what do they do all day? Hon. G. Campbell: The staff of the whole govern- ment service are at work serving the people of British Columbia.

It's the government service in British Co- lumbia that has taken our economy from one of the worst in the country to one of the best. It is the gov- ernment service that has le d to a province which has the lowest level of unemployment in the history of British Columbia. It is the people in public service in British Columbia who have made sure that we had the largest expansion of educational institutions in the last 40 years in British Columbia. The public service in British Columbia are serving the needs of British Co- lumbians, Mr. Speaker. [1410] R.

Fleming: I think it is very disturbing that the Premier would drag the entire civil service into this matter and use them as human shields. We know that there are Liberal staff and supporters appearing as star witnesses and defenders before the courts. That's not what we're asking about today. We're asking about the former Deputy Minister of Finance…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Continue. R. Fleming: We're asking about the former Deputy Minister of Finance, the Premier's hand-picked ap- pointee to ICBC. He is now the subject of at least two investigations.

The actions of the Premier's friend and top adviser are the subject, apparently, of a fact-finding mission. My question is for the Premier. Exactly how many investigations are being conducted of his conflict- ridden government today? Hon. G. Campbell: I t ' s h a r d t o s o r t o u t w h a t t h e member's question was, but let me…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. G. Campbell: The question seemed to be fo- cused on former Deputy Minister of Finance Paul Taylor. As the members in this House know, the government received an e-mail written by a third party, and it was made public by the media.

We received that information about a week or ten days prior to that being made avail- able in the media. My deputy minister did a review. Out of an excess of caution, she felt it was important to have an inde- pendent third party review that information. All of that information will be available to the public, subject to the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act, when that review is complete. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. R. Fleming: Well, so far the ministers have refused to table any details of the multiple investigations oc- curring or any details about their terms of reference.

Does the government also think that the people of Brit- ish Columbia aren't even entitled to know how many investigations are occurring? It's becoming increasingly clear that all too often, citizens only hear about these investigations when the government is forced into a corner. We learned of the McDonald review for the first time in question period. When will the Premier come clean and tell the pub- lic how many investigations are going on in the Pre- mier's office today, and will he add an investigation into media manipulation contracts to the list of those investigations? Hon. G.

Campbell: The independent review which is taking place into the substance of the e-mail that was written by the third party will be fully public. It will be available to the public, subject to freedom-of-information and privacy protection legislation. M. Karagianis: Well, given the revelations in the news, it is reasonable to expect that the Premier would make every attempt to assure not only this House but himself that there are no blatant media manipulation efforts underway by his staff and that he would table the review that has been asked of him today.

So to the Premier again: has he made every attempt, in a reasonable way, to assure us that these manipula- tions are not ongoing in his own staff? Hon. G. Campbell: Again, I've been very clear with regard to the independent review which is taking place

TUESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7089 with regard to KPMG. That review will be done. It will be complete. It will be made available, subject to freedom-of-information and privacy protection legisla- tion. I think that's what peop le expect. It's a respectful process. M y d e p u t y m i n i s t e r , i n undertaking her review of the e-mail, felt there was no substance behind the e- mail. However, out of an excess of caution, she felt it was important that we enlist an independent third party to review that.

That is taking place as we speak. [1415] Indeed, the public will be in formed of the results of that review when it is complete. And that review, when it is complete, will be available to the public, subject to freedom- of-information and privacy protection legislation. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. M. Karagianis: Well, again, in a very reasonable way, will the Premier agree today in this House that that investigation will be expanded to encompass full investigation into media manipulation by senior staff in his office? J.

Kwan: It is very unfortunate that the Premier has displayed, in my view, complete contempt for British Columbia's… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. J. Kwan: …loyal opposition in asking these ques- tions. These questions are legitimate. Liberal staffers have been caught with media manipulations for the government's political gain in the past…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Continue, Member. J. Kwan: It is legitimate to ask the Premier whether or not any of those kinds of activities are continuing today. Will the Premier commit in this House to launch a full investigation into this matter?

And will he con- firm for members of this House that none of his staff are engaged in media manipulation for his own per- sonal political gain? Hon. W. Oppal: You know, it's dangerous to use terms like "being caught." Nobody is being caught. These are allegations…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. W. Oppal: This is precisely the reason we don't comment on these things. It's improper to com- ment on these things. These are matters of dispute, matters of evidence that are presently before the Su- preme Court. You know, to…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Hon. W.

Oppal: It is both inflammatory and irre- sponsible for a lawmaker in this House to make those types of comments on allegations that are being made in the Supreme Court. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. J. Kwan: Prem Vinning lost his job because he got caught manipulating the media under a different iden- tity. The ministerial assist ant Steve Vander Wal also got caught attacking the Leader of the Opposition on CKNW, pretending to be a concerned citizen. These matters are not before the courts.

It should be before this House and before the Premier's office for an investigation in terms of what other political staffers are engaged in this kind of activity. Will the Premier come clean and tell British Co- lumbians whether or not he will actually launch a full investigation into the ongoing activities of manipula- tion of the media by his political aides? Hon. W. Oppal: Yes, the names are not before the court. Those names are not before the court. But any six-year-old who reads the newspapers would know that all this arises out of the trial that's now being con- ducted in the Supreme Court. [1420] D.

Chudnovsky: I don't want to ask about a trial, and I don't want to ask about the past. I want to ask the Premier a question about today. Starting today, will the Premier agree to launch an investigation — today — about the current situation as to whether there is media manipulation going on as a result of actions of the staff in his office? Hon. W. Oppal: You know, we don't conduct "in- vestigations" while trials ar e going on. There's a trial going on in the Supreme…. The member can…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. W.

Oppal: …say: "This is not about the trial; this is not about the trial." Then he goes and talks about the trial. He's talking about conducting…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. W. Oppal: I mean, who does he think he's fooling with that statement? The idea of manipulation,

7090 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 the idea of staff manipulating the public on talk shows or whatever…. All of those are matters that have arisen out of the Supreme Court trial that is presently going on in Vancouver. The member opposite can say what he wants — that this doesn't arise out of the trial. We don't conduct investigations that are parallel to trials. B. Ralston: Like it or not, a cloud is hanging over the Premier's office at the moment. Completely unre- lated to the trial, the pub lic wants answers.

Will the Premier provide the assuranc e to the public that his staff now, today and forward from this day are not engaged in the kind of activities that Prem Vinning and Steven Vander Wal did in the past? Hon. W. Oppal: These are issues that arise out of this trial. The fact that th ey are allegations concerning conduct on the part of people who are alleged to have been calling talk shows in order to manipulate public opinion…. They are matters that have come out of the Supreme Court trial. Prem Vinning's name comes up. Again, that is the same issu e. That issue arises out of the trial.

We do not comment… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Continue. Hon. W. Oppal: …on matters that are presently before the Supreme Court. The member opposite, who's a lawyer, should know that. He should know, above all, that we do not comment on those matters that are presently before the court. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. B. Ralston: Why doesn't the Premier want to lift this cloud by answering th e question? We've asked it now at least 19 times in this question period alone. I'm going to ask the Premier agai n.

Can he assure the pub- lic of British Columbia that no one in his office today and from today forward is ac ting in the way that Prem Vinning acted in the past? Hon. W. Oppal: Well, if the question has been asked 19 times, it's been answered 19 times. The so- called cloud that the member speaks of is a cloud that's over on that side of the Ho use. I can assure the House that there's no cloud over this side of the House. We act upon principle. We know what's right, and we know what's wrong. We know that it's totally wrong and improper to discuss issues that arise out of a Su- preme Court trial. [1425] H.

Lali: In 2005 the Premier's handpicked lieuten- ant in the Indo-Canadia n community, Mr. Prem Vinning, was caught pretending to be somebody else on a radio call-in talk show. Later that year Steve Vander Wal, the Deputy Premier's ministerial assistant, was also caught pretending, on CKNW, to be some- body else. The Premier has not stood up in this House to deny these allegations and the reports that are in the news- papers. The Premier has not done that. My question is to the Premier. Either he knew about the activities and just turned a blind eye, or the situation was out of his control.

When is the Premier going to stop pretending to be the Premier and actually call for an investigation of what was going on in his office and under his ministries? Hon. W. Oppal: Well, I don't know how many more times we have to talk about Prem Vinning. The Prem Vinning issue obviously is arising out of the alle- gations that have been made by defence counsel during the course of this trial. Interjection. Hon. W. Oppal: Yes, his name wasn't mentioned. You're right. Prem Vinning's name wasn't mentioned, but the issue arises out of the trial, and we're not going to comment on it.

DISCLOSURE OF DOCUMENTS ON SALE OF B.C. RAIL S. Simpson: We know that the integrity of the Pre- m i e r ' s o f f i c e a n d o f t h i s g o v e r n m e n t i s i n s h a m b l e s , and it's unravelling more every minute in this question period as they deny inform ation. In the court proceed- ings today… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. S. Simpson: …counsel for Mr. Basi and Mr. Virk made it clear that they will be seeking disclosure in the coming days for documents that this government is withholding. The counsel is making the assertion that those documents will confirm or deny that the B.C.

Rail oversight committee, made up of senior cabinet minis- ters from this government, was aware of the discus- sions of a consolation prize in the B.C. Rail deal. My question is to the Prem ier. If the Premier is so sure and clear that these are false allegations, will he commit today to release all of those documents to the defence? Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Excuse me. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. G. Campbell: There is a case before the courts of British Columbia, which I believe both the opposi-

TUESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7091 tion and the government would like to see concluded. At least on this side of the House, we believe in the rule of law. We understand the role that a special prosecu- tor takes, and the members opposite…. Certainly, the member that asked the question clearly does not understand the role that is played by the special prosecutor. We will not taint that process. We will encourage the prosecution to be to the fullest extent of the law.

I'm sure the defence will provide their defence, and we will not in any way taint that process, so we can get to a resolution that every British Columbian can count on. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. [End of question period.] M. Sather: I seek leave to present a petition. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. [1430] Petitions M. Sather: I have a petition with 333 signatures calling on the provincial government to restore and maintain child care operating funds for the child care resource and referral centres to the funding rate as at February 13, 2007. S.

Fraser: I submit petitions with thousands of sig- natures from across the province, again in support of the Safe Antifreeze Act and asking this government to bring it forward for second reading. Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: I call from the order paper, stand- ing under my name, Motion 49. Motions on Notice REFERRAL OF REPORT ON LEGISLATURE ARTWORK DEPICTING FIRST NATIONS PEOPLE Hon.

M. de Jong: That motion reads as follows: [Be it resolved that in the spirit of the Province's New Re- lationship with the First Nations and Aboriginal people, the Legislative Assembly accept and adopt the 2001 Re- port of the Speaker's Advisory Panel titled "A Review of the Depiction of Aboriginal Peoples in the Artworks of the Parliament Buildings" and refer this matter to the Legislative Assembly Management Committee for im- plementation of the report's recommendation.] November 18, 2006, was a good day to be here in Victoria and to be here at the Parliament Buildings, the Legislature.

That was the day that Chief Robert Sam and members of the Songhees First Nation and Chief Andy Thomas and members of the Esquimalt First Nation came here. I remember it very well, the proces- sion that Chief Sam led jointly up the sidewalk. We had a bit of a magical moment at the steps where the Chief pointed out, "I should be welcoming you, not you welcoming me," given the nature of the matter that was being discussed on that day, for it was on that day that a dispute dating back to at least 1854 began to resolve itself.

An agreement was initialled dealing with a cloud that was hanging over the title of the land upon which these buildings are situated a n d t h a t i n m a n y w a y s h a d g o n e o n u n r e s o l v e d f o r too long. That settlement, happily, has now been ratified by both the Songhees First Nation — my congratulations to the Chief and council — and the Esquimalt First Nation. The process of rebuilding and beginning a new relationship is in full flight. I have to tell members that something else hap- pened that day, though, as pa rt of that whole exercise.

The ceremony took place downstairs just off from the rotunda — the rotunda that is the subject of the debate that we're having here today. We left from the Ratten- bury Room, and we walked through. Something caught my attention, and that was the reaction — it was subtle; it wasn't overstated — of members of the Songhees First Nation and Esquimalt First Nation — elders, young people and people in between. As we went through the rotunda and people looked, they didn't say anything, but it was clear that they were uncomfortable. It was clear that what they saw troubled them.

Many looked away, and many were anxious to leave that particular part of the build- ing — in fact, in a couple of cases I think anxious to leave the building — because of what they saw. No one said anything to detract from the celebra- tory atmosphere, but that made an impression amongst those of us who were there. The member for Port Al- b e r n i w a s t h e r e o n t h a t d a y , a s w e l l , a s p a r t o f t h a t celebration, and others from this House.

It prompted me and members of the government to begin to think about that. [1435] These murals that are the subject of this motion have been an issue for a number of decades. Most recently it became an issue in, I think, the fall of 2000. In those days, Grand Chief Ed John played a role in government, the government of British Columbia and, obviously, with the summit. Some action was initiated, and that gave rise in the fall of 2002 to a committee being struck — a committee of eminent individuals, a Speaker's advisory panel. They pre- sented a report at the end of March 2001 to then Speaker Hartley.

It was a different time then, the end of March 2001. There was an election campaign a few weeks away, and besides some preliminary commentary in a very politically charged climate at the time, the report kind of went away. It included some recommendations, and it kind of disappeared.

7092 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 I must confess that in the lead-up to that election campaign, I don't actually recall if I even read it, but the events of November 18 reminded me that maybe I should. Maybe I should dust off that report from five years earlier and have a read. A lot has changed since 2001, and I suppose maybe we've all changed a little bit. I think I probably have. I've certainly learned.

I've learned about the value of a new relationship with British Columbia's first nations, about the value associated with trying to understand feelings and frustrations that are forged and have been forged by a history too often marked by intolerance and injustice. I've learned about the value and challenges asso- ciated with effecting genuine reconciliation and the willingness to deal with symbols, not because of the importance of the symbol it self but because of what it represents — sometimes to you and sometimes to others. Over Christmas I read the report that was done by the committee to Speaker Hartley.

At this point I want to at least acknowledge and mention the names of the people that comprised that committee: Dr. Jo-Ann Archibald, professor at UBC; Dr. Jean Barman, UBC professor; Dr. Martha Black from the Royal B.C. Mu- seum; Dr. John Lutz, professor at UVic; and sadly, the now deceased Mr. Art Thomps on, an aboriginal artist and educator. They produced this report which we are now ask- ing the House to consider and to formally recom- mend its adoption and implementation. It's a good report. I hope members have had a chance to read it.

It's not overly lengthy, about 25 pages or so, and it gives a good history of the murals. It talks about how t h e y w e r e a g i f t f r o m t h e P r o v i n c i a l S e c r e t a r y , M r . Howe, in 1932 and how he, as a personal gift, com- missioned Mr. George Southwell to prepare and paint the murals. In 1933 this chamber passed a motion acknowledg- ing the gift and thanking the benefactor, Mr. Howe, for them. In 1935 the murals were completed. There are actually two parts to them: the ones that we're talking about now in the lower rotunda and the others that extend up to the dome.

There are two important things that I learned as a component of reading that report. One is that the murals were not original features of the building, as many peo- ple may think they are — the buildings, of course, dating from the 1890s. And the fact, also, that the murals, a per- sonal gift, were not commissioned by the province. [1440] I should say a word about the artist, Mr. George Southwell, in these preliminary remarks, because I think this is important, and I do want to emphasize this as well.

I hope nothing in these proceedings and cer- tainly in my comments would be interpreted as im- pugning the artist Mr. Southwell's motives or our memory of him as a distin guished artist and public servant. I n f a c t , i n t h e r e p o r t i t s e l f a t p a g e 1 7 , t h e a u t h o r s make this point: "At the time the murals were created, white British Columbians considered the imagery to be appropriate for their setting. The message respecting aboriginal peo- ples that the murals conveyed may have been consid- ered, if anything, liberal.

Southwell's granddaughter has reflected" — and I think this is important to read into the record on a day like today — "'I do not believe that my grandfather looked at natives as inferior. I do not believe that his paintings were motivated by either racism or co- lonialist propaganda. He hi mself was a renegade. He bucked convention and encouraged non-conformity in his children and grandchildren.'" The point is also made in the report that he lived and travelled with native guides. He learned their sto- ries and oral traditions.

The re port then goes on to talk about one aspect of the deba te that has swirled around these murals for many years, decades, and that's their historical accuracy. This report contains a deta iled analysis on the ques- tion of historical accuracy, and it deals with some sen- sitive issues. It talks about how in at least one or two of the murals, there is nudity depicted. How accurate was that? How valid a depiction is that? It talked about what some have interpreted as a depiction involving the use of slave labour. Is that accurate? Is that appro- priate? Did it meet with what actually took place in those days?

The best that can be said about the report and about those questions is that it is inconclusive. But the report draws this important conclusion at page 22 on the question of historical accuracy . It is, when I read it, the part of the report that began to be most determinative. The report says this: "For many years, many abo- riginal and non-aboriginal people have found the im- age and message of the murals to be not only disturb- ing but offensive and hurtful. The value of the art and the historical accuracy of the murals are less important than the hurt they cause others." I am persuaded by that argument.

I find that a very compelling conclusion to draw about a subject that has gone unresolved for too long. The report then talks about the second important feature of the murals, about how those feelings of hurt and frustration are amplified by virtue of where the murals are located. The panel that completed this report said this at page 21: "Today it's not just the murals' content but their setting that causes concern. The Parliament Build- ings are no longer the purview of a self-elected minor- ity of British Columbians.

Two aboriginal persons, Frank Calder" — and parenthetically, of course, we lost Frank Calder last year just before Christmas — "and Larry Guno, have been elected as Members of the Leg- islative Assembly." Calder was first elected in 1949 and was subsequently re-elected eight times. Guno was elected in '86 and served in the House for one term. "Women and persons of diverse backgrounds are no longer the outsiders they once were, either as participants in governance or as visitors.

Unlike two generations ago, the Parliament Buildings are now generally accepted as belonging to all the people of British Columbia." [1445]

TUESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7093 These halls, this chamber, this building must, in my view, be seen as a welcoming place by all British Co- lumbians, and that lies at the core of the report. The panellists, who in no way tried to diminish or dismiss some of the other arguments that people have made — and we may hear today — about the murals, say that the paramount and determining feature must be that notion of ensuring that there is a welcome atmosphere here for all British Columbians. The panel goes on to identify five options, five pos- sible courses of action.

Leave the murals as they are and do nothing. That, of course, has been the choice for some decades now. Leave the murals as they are and add some explanatory material. We could alter the murals as sort of the paint-the-fig-leaf option, if I could put it crassly, and actually paint over the murals to try to correct some of the offending aspects of the murals. We could cover them up, or the panel identified the option of removing them.

It's interesting because, of course, the panellists ultimately got to the poin t where they unanimously recommended option 5: that the murals be removed, with the proviso that they not be destroyed in the process. If you read the repo rt, it's interesting to note how people came to that conclusion, because I think when they began their process, at least several of the panellists would have expected that they would have come to a different conclusion.

Yet for the reasons that I've only touched on — and I hope that members with an interest will go to the report itself — they all ultimately came to the conclusion that these murals should be removed, with the proviso that they not be destroyed in the process.

The rationale for that is probably best contained on page 31 of the report, where the panellists write: "I t is the view of the panel that these merits are overridden" — talking about the merits of the other arguments — "by the principle that the 'people's house' for all British Columbians ought not to be the location for works of art that cause offence and shame to any part of the people of this province." It continues on page 32: "As British Columbians, every one of us has the right to enter the Parliament Buildings without having to see ourselves portrayed in a way we feel is insulting." And lastly, "The panel stresses that, in the controversy surrounding the mu- rals, their location is a more important factor than their content.

The Parliament Buildings are not an art gallery with a specialized audience and function. They are, rather, the centre of our system of governance repre- senting all the peoples of th e province. No one should feel excluded here." That, in essence, is what has given rise to the com- mitment given in the 2007 Speech from the Throne — a commitment, I might add, to bring this matter to this chamber and give its present occupants — those of us who have been given the honour to sit here — an op- portunity to decide.

There may be some differences of opinion, and it's important that people be able to ex- press those differences of opinion and that they be able to offer their own thoughts on the wisdom of the action that we are recommending. I know this, though — at least, I think I know this — that notwithstanding those differences, if we could address the socioeconomic disparity that has separated aboriginal peoples from the rest of society for so long by simply relocating a painting, we'd do it.

If we could reverse the historical injustices that were perpetrated against aboriginal peoples by moving a mural, we'd do it. [1450] Of course, it's not that simple. The canvas that serves as the historical backdrop for the challenges we are fac- ing today cannot be altered by replacing a few institu- tional props or bringing in a new set design. But we can do this. We can collectively reach for the brush of recon- ciliation and paint a new canvas coloured by the princi- ples of respect and reconcilia tion. In 2007 we can say, locked arm in arm with our aboriginal brothers and sis- ters: "This is who we are.

This is what we believe in." Shawn Atleo just a few moments ago, just beside the rotunda, ironically, said this — very poignant: "The days of doing things to or for first nations are over. The day of doing things with our first nations brothers and sisters has dawned." We can swing these doors open even if we don't understand all of the feelin gs that these depictions, these murals, evoke. It is enough for me. It is enough to know that people are genuin ely troubled by what they represent to them.

We can swing the doors of this building, this gathering place — d a r e I s a y t h i s l o n g - house — this parliament, open to our aboriginal broth- ers and sisters and say: "This is your place. Join us. You are welcome." M. Farnworth: It's my pleasure to take my place on the debate around Motion 49 on an issue that has, I think, troubled this chamber for a number of years, because of the difficulty of the issues that have been raised, the questions that ha ve to be answered, and the willingness of us as legislators to recognize the issues that confront us — the question of the murals.

I think it's important that we recognize that this motion deals with not just history, not just how society has been in the past but al so how it's changed and how it is now. It deals with the values that we hold for this building — that it is in fact the people's House. It also deals with us as members and as a society — how we hold those values and seeing in this House how we represent ourselves — but also with issues of history, issues of what is art, issues of what is censorship, issues of how we reconcile peoples, how we reconcile indi- viduals and how we reconcile history.

The Government House Leader stated that this was a report that came about in a different time. It was. In 2001 we were government; they were opposition. Ed John was a minister in an NDP government. Events conspired, resulted in an election and a change of gov- ernment, and nothing was do ne on that report. But we're dealing with that report today. We need to un- derstand some of the context of that report. We need to understand some of the context around the issue. [1455]

7094 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 The murals, as the Government House Leader has pointed out, were a gift. They were a gift at a time when we had a different view of aboriginal people in this province, when we had a different view of society in this province and a different view of how the world was ordered. Over the decades we have recognized the injustices that took place.

We have recognized the change that needs to be made — sometimes willingly, sometimes being dragged kicking and screaming by society and by the courts to make decisions that ensure that we include everybody in this province. Whether you are aboriginal or non-aboriginal, we are all British Columbians. We all have a role, and we all have a place in building this province so it's a prov- ince for everyone.

Nowhere is that more demonstrated than in this building, whic h is in fact the people's House, where every British Columbian should be able to come and feel at home, and where every British Co- lumbian should be able to come and see themselves not only represented in this ch amber but also represented in the building itself in an accurate way. That's what this is about.

This report deals with the murals — murals which portray aboriginal people in ways which are not accurate, in ways which are de- meaning and which reflect a different point in our his- tory, a different point in our evolution as a province and as a people. We have changed. There is — we hope on both sides of this House — a new relationship. The days of divisive referendums are hopefully over forever in this province.

There's a lot that remains to be done — child pov- erty amongst aboriginal co mmunities, health issues amongst aboriginal communities, issues of suicide rates amongst aboriginal communities, issues of oppor- tunity, issues around educat ion, around control of re- sources and land and the wh ole treaty process. Those are complex issues that we have to work on every sin- gle day. They're not going to be dealt with today or tomorrow but only over time. We as a society, I believe, have reached that point in our province's history where we are committed to ensuring that that takes place.

But there are also other things that take place where we can have an immediate statement of our desire for change and our desire for reconciliation. The murals are one of them. I believe that's why it's important to sup- port this motion. We send a strong message of recon- ciliation to aboriginal people. We send a strong message of reconciliation to the broader public, and we send a strong message of reconciliation outside of our own province to the rest of Canada. I think we should be prou d of that. We should cele- brate that. But we also need to recognize that there are issues.

There are people wh o have concerns and ques- tions on the other side of th is debate. Those views also need to be respected. [1500] People recognize the inaccuracy of the murals, but p e o p l e a l s o r e c o g n i z e t h a t t h e y h a v e b e e n p a r t o f t h i s building for more than 75 years, that the issue of cen- sorship is an important question that needs to be ad- dressed and that the issues of whether you move them or relocate them are import ant questions that need to be answered. We are not the first to struggle with these ques- tions.

Other societies, other places in this world even today deal with these questions. I spent some time in the Balkans for two years, an d I was there just after the fall of communism and the emergence of democracy. In that change, in that desire to break free of what was for many people a very horrible past and to start anew was this desire to completely eliminate, to completely get rid of, in many cases to completely destroy what were works of art, what were symbols that had been around as a part of the history of those places for many decades.

It was interesting to see how these countries dealt w i t h t h i s i s s u e . S o m e w i p e d i t a w a y . I t n e v e r h a p - pened; it never existed. [S. Hammell in the chair.] Others recognized that while these may not be de- sirable images, while they re flected what was in many cases a totalitarian history, they were still part of the collective history of those countries and of those peo- ples. While they should not stay in their perceived place of honour in front of a legislature or a civic square, they still were part of the cultural history of those peoples. They were relocated somewhere else.

We also need to remember that while we are en- gaged in a process of reconciliation, sending out a mes- sage to the people of our province and building a new relationship with aboriginal people, you cannot erase history. You cannot pretend it didn't happen, because that is the worst thing that you can do. What we must continue to do is learn from history — from the atti- tudes of the past, from the attitudes of societies long ago — to see how we have changed and to ensure that we don't make those mistakes again. That's one of the challenges we face.

That's one of the things in this recommendation that I think is key.

It is that in our desire for reconciliation, in moving the murals out of their location, we find an appropriate place for them, we place them in a context so that peo- ple not only recognize them — the history of them, the fact that they were a gift, the fact that at that time this was seen as an artistic gift that would add something to this chamber — but also recognize the cultural con- text — how we viewed aboriginal people in those days, what conditions for aboriginal people were like in those days, how we have changed, and the changes that are still taking place or that still have to happen before we have full reconciliation in this province.

That's one of the important things we need to ac- complish in moving and in dealing with this motion. In the report there were options laid out. As has been stated, the authors of that report thought they might arrive at a different destination. They considered a lot of the questions that will need to be answered, and they came to that it is appropriate to move those mu- rals to another location. [1505]

TUESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7095 When this motion passes and this goes to LAMC, then those things need to be taken into account. Those issues will have to be dealt with, because what we do then is ensure that the goal of our motion and the goal of moving those murals is to create a people's building — a Legislature where everyone is represented, where everyone feels comfortable and at home, where we have images, arts and decoration that are appropriate for this place but where we also don't forget the re- sponsibility of the other side of the coin.

That is to en- sure that we recognize our history — good, bad and mediocre; that we have the ability to learn from the past; that we don't repeat the mistakes of the past; and that these things are placed in context. With that, I will take my pl ace in this debate, and I look forward to hearing the comments of other col- leagues in this House. J. Nuraney: I rise today with a sense of great pride — a pride in this government, which has the courage to cor- rect a wrong. We have seen in the past the history of our aboriginal people.

We have seen, heard and read about the injustices, about the residential school experiences, about how they were treated as second-class citizens — a community with which we should have nothing to do — and let them exist on their own in total isolation. Those were terrible times. That was a part of our Canadian history that is stained and tainted. It is a strong resolve of this government to correct those mis- takes and to see how we can best heal the wounds that were caused. This afternoon the House is considering a motion of great significance to the cultural history of our prov- ince. It is a debate.

It is a motion for the removal of the murals that are in this building. There was an argument put forward that it is a work of art. I would like to contradict that statement. Art is a depiction of facts. When the panel made this report, it was mentioned that many visitors to the Par- liament Buildings may continue to believe that the mu- rals are accurate representati ons of past events and of the role of first nations people in the province's history.

The report also says that this does not represent the facts and the way things were. [1510] Chief Sam amplified the First Nations Summit Task Group's concerns, explaining his position with three points: that the murals are not factual, that they per- petuate negative stereotypes of aboriginal persons, that they perpetuate colonial attitudes at a time when new relationships with aboriginal people should have been nurtured and made productive. I submit that even for those people who consider this art, it perhaps is a design, in my opinion, of a gross misrepresentation. It is also said by the Songhees eld- ers….

They reiterated that the aboriginal women de- picted in the murals were always clothed in some fash- ion, often with cloaks or cedar skirts. The children were also always covered in some way. Once again, Madam Speaker, I put it to you that these murals that are downstairs in our building repre- sent no history. We in Canada are a nation of many p e o p l e s .

W e h a v e c o m e f r o m a l l o v e r t h e w o r l d , a n d the fact that Canada is considered a pride in the world is because of its pluralistic and multicultural values that are nurtured and cultured over time with a strong underlining of sentiments — sentiments of understand- ing, sentiments of generosity, sentiments of caring. And the most important sentiment is that of respect. We are all immigrants to this land of the first nations. The land truly belongs to the people of the first nations, and we must always consider ourselves as their guests. They welcomed us from the beginning with open arms.

They welcomed us in the true spirit of what they believed in — of people, of humanity, of friendship. And today is a day that I stand in this House with great pride that we are, and I am, a part of that history where we are correcting the very first wrong that has hap- pened to our people of first nations. It is my absolute belief that the murals should be removed, should be out of sight for any person to see again. This building represents the House of the people of British Columbia.

It is of all peoples, and I would not want to be in this building if this building represents any sort of hurt to any person who is a Canadian, a person of this land. Madam Speaker, I have th e great pride and privilege of supporting this motion, and I thank you for the time. S. Fraser: I rise to speak to Motion 49 also. I believe that this place, this building, is a place of respect, and iissak is the Nuu-chah-nulth term for respect.

I have learned much from Nuu-chah -nulth wisdom, and that is what this motion is about. [1515] I respect and agree with the recommendations of the panel, and I respect and agree with the rationale of the panel in the need to remove these murals. That being said, I must qualify that. I am not a fan of censor- ship, and these murals represent a depiction of a colo- n i a l p a s t t h a t a l s o m u s t n o t b e f o r g o t t e n . F o r m e i t i s this place, the siting of th ese murals, that is wholly inappropriate. No one should feel insulted in this building, ever — aboriginal or non.

No one should feel intimidated in this building, Madam Speaker. No one should feel of- fended in this place, and no one should feel ashamed in this place. Those murals create those negative feelings for many that visit, and that should not be. I do not believe that the previous speaker's state- ments…. I do not agree with some of them in the sense…. Removal, yes, but not removal from public view.

I believe there would be an appropriate siting for these murals — for they are a part of our history, and that must not be forgotten — possibly at the museum, with a segue for those murals to show why they were removed and how far we have come. We should not forget the attitudes of the past, which were not that long ago, that led to stereotyping. That was a different era, on e we should not forget but one we could celebrate with this motion as a turning of the page.

7096 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 I have respect for the artists and the intent of hon- ouring this building with art, and I do believe art is in the eye of the beholder. I have seen art that I think is bad art, and I have seen art that I believe is good art, but that is a subjective opinion. I do not believe that art should ever be destroyed. Nor should it be purposely removed, even for reasons that might be considered appropriate. Having these murals removed from this building because of respect, because of iisaak, is essential, and the time is right.

This report and these recommendations are a few years old now, so I believe that it is a good day to discuss this and decide to move this thing forward. The motion would move it to LAMC, the Legisla- tive Assembly Management Committee, to determine the best way to do that. I would hope that this would be done in a way where the artwork would not be de- stroyed, because that would be a tragedy also. I do not believe that the intent of th e author of these artworks, the artist of the day, was to show disrespect. It was based on an attitude that prevailed at the time.

Again, that is an attitude that is best remembered — t o s h o w t h a t w e h a v e m o v e d , t h a t w e h a v e p r o - gressed and that we shouldn't forget what the past was about. If we forgot that, we would be in danger of slip- ping backwards, and I don't think that would be in anyone's interest. It certainly would not serve recon- ciliation in any meaningful way. In the interests of iisaak, Madam Speaker — respect — I will concur with the recommendations of Motion 49. I think it can be cause for celebration in the turning of a page in this House and in our history. [1520] B.

Lekstrom: Thank you to the members for the comments that they've put forward. I am going to bring a different view to this debate on Motion 49. What we're talking about today, in my view, is not about first nations or non–first nations. It's about the murals that we have done and see in the rotunda down below. I've heard words such as censorship. I have heard people talk about respect. All of those things are impor- tant, and I think we want to understand fully what we're debating here today and what the outcome could possi- bly be, depending on which vote and how it transpires.

I've read the report of 2001, and I think there were some tremendous submissions. I think there were points of view brought forward that I can respect. It doesn't mean I agree with them, but I can certainly respect them and how they were brought forward. There were five options in that report, and I certainly have my view on which one I would agree with. I'm going to get into that in a bit. My colleague earlier said that art is in the eye of the beholder. I can tell you — and I'm not about to mislead the public — I am no art connoisseur.

I enjoy looking at different pieces of art, and I know that what tugs at my heartstrings may not tug at the person standing beside me. When I look at a painting on a wall, I'm certain that if I had three or four people standing beside me, we would feel something different. It would mean some- thing different to us. That's what those paintings in our lower rotunda do. I was down earlier, before this debate, to look at those. I view them, obviousl y, differently than the peo- ple that feel they should be removed.

I didn't read in the report of any of the presenters saying that they should not be retained bu t moved. That, although I disagree with it, I think was a very respectful approach to the discussions that took place in 2001, and here we are again today. This building means a great deal, not just to myself and legislators that have sat in this building before but to all British Columbians — first nations, non–first nations. I think this is our building, and when I say our building, it's all-inclusive. It isn't that one person has more access to it than another.

I did read some comments in the report by a couple of people that presented who feel there's still not access for first nations. That one I do differ on. I think we have come a long way with the new relationship and with the reconciliation that has ta ken place in this province. There were wrongs that were committed many years ago, and I think society has accepted that and is mov- ing forward to correct those inequities that existed. I do want to speak about the five recommendations that were put forward.

What we're debating here today is, I believe, recommendation 5, which is to remove the murals as they presently exist. I support recommendation 2, which talks about leaving the murals as they are with the addition of other materials. Those other materials, I think, can bet- ter reflect our history as we move forward, because as we begin this debate, we're talking about history at that time. History doesn't have to be ten years ago, 20 years ago, 30, 50 or 100. History is every moment that passes us by, and we can learn from that. What I would like to do…. I'm not going to bela- bour the issue.

I certainly feel that if I'm going to cast a vote in a certain manner, I have a responsibility to stand up and explain to British Columbians why I'm going to cast my vote that way. Where I stand on this is quite clear. The history of this building means a great deal to me. To me, to take things away is not accept- able. To add things is. History. In our case what we're talking about here is not always comfortable, but it's real, and we should not hide it. In this case we should not move it, but we should build upon it. So my support would be for recommendation 2.

My belief would be that those murals would remain where they are, but we would add new murals to this building depicting the new relationship that we have built with first nations across this province, and continue to build. We would partner with our first nations to have the type of art put forward that they would see, that is their view on the new relationship as it moves forward. It doesn't mean we've reached everything to everyone.

It means we're moving in the right direction. [1525] A g a i n , i n c l o s i n g , I d o w a n t t o r e i t e r a t e t h a t t h i s issue for me is about this building, the history of this building — not that I don't respect the feelings of

TUESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7097 others who have spoken before me; or the individuals that presented to the committee; or our first nations, who feel that something should be done and that mov- ing them is their choice. Just as I feel something should be done, I think that the issue of explaining thos e murals with plaques be- side them, adding and build ing upon them with the new relationship and reflecting what this province has done — each and every person, not just government — is important, and that's the route I would rather go. This is not a new issue.

As was stated — I believe there has been some discussion — this recommendation comes from a 2001 report. In my mind, I don't see this as censorship. We could get in to that debate of which books we like and which books we don't like. As my colleagues have said before, I've looked at some art that I couldn't even begin to understand fully. But because of that, I'm not about to pass my judgment on that art be- cause it means obviously something to many people.

As I said earlier, when I walked by those paintings, I stood there — there was a colleague in this chamber down there as well, I'm sure, doing the same thing — and I looked. Those painting s , w h e n I l o o k a t t h e m , don't depict to me a colonial attitude in the sense that the white man was over the first nations. But we learn from it. I can tell you that in the job I hold today and in the past six years, I've learned a great deal about the relationship with first nations and their history.

My view — I'm going to close again; I've said that a number of times, but it's important enough to say — is that I'm not a supporter of this motion. I don't believe those murals should be removed. I believe that what we should do as a Legislat ive Assembly, as a province and as the people of British Columbia is build upon those murals and work with first nations and non–first nations to reflect where we were and where we're at today, which is many, many miles from where we once were in our relationship with first nations.

I thank you for the time, and I look forward to hear- ing my colleagues debate on this motion and certainly look forward to the vote. As we move forward, democ- racy works in the way that once a majority vote is taken, we step forward and make that work. J. Horgan: I'm pleased to rise today to speak on the motion before us. It's not surprising that I would follow the member for Peace River South, who I bumped into in the ro- tunda as we both were doing a little bit more due dili- gence. I find that he and I tend to be in the same place at the same time quite ofte n on many issues in this place.

I'm comforted by that — that across this floor we can periodically look at issues of importance such as this and reflect together collectively, not as New De- mocrats and Liberals or government and opposition but as human beings, indivi duals with thoughts and views and ideas on what is right and what is wrong. I'm pleased to stand today and discuss this issue, not just because I happen to work here. I worked here in the 1990s, and that was when I first became aware of the murals in the rotunda.

During that period of my life I was usually running through the rotunda from one place to another, and I didn't have time to stop and reflect on the murals as art. It's not as a critic of art that I stand here today but as a representative in the Legislature for Malahat–Juan de Fuca, which is the home of Jane Munro, who I in- troduced earlier today, the grandchild of the artist, George Southwell. Jane, of course, has a particular view on the art as a descendant of the artist, and she's passed that on to me.

I want my remarks today to re- flect my listening to her and hearing what she had to say about those pieces as not just pieces of history in this building but pieces of history in her family. [1530] I also want to say that it's regrettable that Chief Atleo and others are no longer with us, because I wanted them to hear my comments directly. I had the opportunity to meet Chief Atleo in the Tsartlip long- house on the Saanich Peninsula. I was honoured to be asked to participate in a longhouse ceremony. It was one of the most moving experiences of my life as a member of this Legislature.

It was indeed humbling to be in a place where first nations had met for centuries to discuss issues of importance to their community, to their people and to this place that we now share. I am here as a result of European expansion. I am not responsible for it. Nor am I responsible for the views of those who look at art and see history. I am a student of history. I have a master's degree in history. I'm a bit of a historian, I suppose you could say. At least, I've studied it, and I've read it extensively.

When I look at the murals in the rotunda — their names are Courage, Enterprise, Labour and Justice — I don't always see courage, enterprise, labour and justice, but I see one person's

interpretation of those significant emotions or attributes. Those were the vision of George Southwell. He was an artist of some significance. I just want to read from the report. Not everyone who is viewing today or who will be reading the newspaper or television re views of our discussions today will have an understanding of George Southwell, and I just want, for the record, to read in a portion of the report.

It's from page 14, and it goes as follows: "At the time when the murals were commissioned, the Daily Colonist reported that Southwell's paintings 'have been greatly admired by resident and visiting art connoisseurs.'" This was the Daily Colonist, April 6, 1933. "Although his reputation has faded and few exam- ples of his paintings are in public collections in the prov- ince…Southwell was considered 'the dean of the artists in the 1950s.' His open-studio exhibits in Vancouver were popular, he was a respected teacher, and among his many works was a mural in the Devonshire Hotel in Vancouver.

Just because Southwell is no longer a big name among today's relatively small roster of historical artists in British Columbia…does not currently say that his works should be dismissed as insignificant. "Re-evaluation of artists and their works is con- stant in the study and critique of visual arts. There is no doubt that Southwell's paintings and career will be of interest to future historians of the visual arts in Brit- ish Columbia and that the murals will be central to any re-evaluation of his practice.

7098 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 "In the current debate about the future of the mu- rals, it is important to realize that the study of art in British Columbia is rudimentary. For example, there is no teacher at any of the universities in the province whose primary research and majority of teaching is focused on historical British Columbia visual art and artists." We don't have a body of work to comment on the value, the importance or the

interpretation of Mr. Southwell's art in our rotunda, but we do have the heartfelt views of our first nations brothers and sisters. They are of the view that the art perpetuates negative stereotypes. I don't want to dispute that for a minute. I can completely understand how our first nations would feel that way, and I want, to the best of my abil- ity, to respect that sentiment and do what I can to en- s u r e t h a t w h e n t h e y c o m e i nto this place, they are as comfortable as I am or anyone else in this building. Whether they be Buddhists, Sikhs, Protestants, Epis- copalians, it need not matter.

We are all British Columbi- ans, regardless of where we come from. We are a result of European expansion. That's how we came here. That's why we have a British parliamentary system. That's why we're in this building today debating this motion. I am concerned that we are passing our responsibil- ity as legislators on to the Legislature management committee to deliberate. Like the previous speaker, my preferred option would be to leave the murals as they are and add additional materials and other works of art. My home in Langford is festooned in aboriginal art. Richard Hunt is my favourite.

Whenever I can, I collect his work, and we put it on the walls in our home. I would rather see the $280,000 projected estimate to remove the murals put toward retaining first nations interpreters to tell us the story of this place — what the Songhees did and how they reacted to our arrival — so that we can have some balance when people come into this Legislature. The stories and history an d culture of the first na- tions on southern Vancouver Island and, indeed, right across this province are profoundly important to me and are profoundly important to the Legislature of British Columbia.

A better way, in my mind, to bring that cul- ture alive is to make sure it's part of what we do here. [1535] You'll know, hon. Speaker, that in the summertime quite often the Legislative Assembly hires young stu- dents to do skits and dramas around the buildings, pretending to be Amor de Cosmos and other leaders of this place. I don't know why we wouldn't want to re- tain young aboriginal stud ents or young aboriginal dancers or young aboriginal interpreters to assist us in better understanding what happened when our ances- tors arrived here in the 1800s.

I believe that we are going to pass this motion and, ultimately, we're going to continue to have some debate, but I just want to remind those who don't remember that there was a fellow named Barnett Newman, who painted something called Voice of Fire . The art gallery of Canada paid $1.8 million — 1988 dollars — to have this piece of art, which was three bands on a canvas, purchased so that the taxpayers and art lovers in Canada could, when they visited Ottawa or when the exhibit traveled, see this piece of art.

Now, for me it was three stripes on a canvas; to those who know better, it was a masterpiece worthy of collection in our national ga llery. So I can't stand here today and pass judgment on George Southwell's ability. I can't pass judgment on George Southwell's interpreta- tion of history. But I can stand here in this place and say that those murals have been there for 70 years.

We should take steps, through our reconciliation processes with first nations, to address the real substantive issues of alienation and stereotyping, rather than take old art and hide it away or cloister it in a building somewhere where it will not be seen again. This is a profoundly important issue to first na- tions. I fully recognize that, but I do believe that there are better options than the on e proposed in the report.

Like my colleague from Peace River South, who I bumped into in the rotunda when we were doing our due diligence again today, I believe that we should not pass our responsibility on to our caucus leadership but that, in fact, we should st and here today and speak in favour of option 2, to leave the murals and add more materials to the rotunda so our first nations brothers and sisters are genuinely welcomed and can tell their story to all those who come and visit us. Hon. L.

Reid: It pleases me to have the opportunity to respond to this topic this afternoon, and I would ask the members present today to look around this cham- ber. This isn't a museum. It's not an art gallery. It's a parliament. For me the sense of belonging takes prece- dence over the other emotions expressed today. I would not wish to see this place ever, ever put one moment of discomfort into any member who would come before. That is not what I believe this place is about. I believe you must come here unfettered, free to act on your beliefs and your abilities as you go for- ward.

I, too, have had many conversations, many deal- ings with aboriginal people in British Columbia over my years of being in this place, and for us to suggest that to continue to keep the murals in the rotunda, to somehow continue to ask them to ignore that, doesn't warm my heart. There have to be opportunities where we, indeed, understand that a sense of belonging is vitally important. I am always about respectful engagement. I want us to engage respectfully as we go forward — and that's with every person in British Columbia.

Whether it's children and families, whether it's educators, it's about respectful engagement. If there are people in British Columbia today, aboriginal Canadians, people of aboriginal descent, who do not feel welcome in this place, that is, I believe, a calling that each of us must address in terms of how we solve that issue. It is a collective solving of that issue, hon. Speaker. It is, I believe, about purs uing respect and reconcilia- tion with aboriginal peoples. For me it's not about any- thing else. A whole array of different issues and subject matter can be brought into the debate. The principle at

TUESDAY, APRIL 24, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7099 risk today is whether or not we truly wish this build- ing, this place, to be welcome to all. I truly wish that for this place. I desperately want that for this place. [1540] When you see people of aboriginal descent and you see the Premier of this province say that we are all here to stay, that is the only issue of debate. We're here to stay, I think, with tremendous potential, tremendous promise and tremendous optimism. We're here to stay together.

If there are, and there appear to be, issues that allow this place to create a sense of discomfort, we need to collec- tively strive, I believe, to ensure that does not continue. I'm serious. I'm passionate about this. The level of stigma and depersonalizing that has gone on over the years cannot be allowed to continue. I think that it's tremendously important and a huge opportunity for us, when individuals who sit behind us today, have sat many a day behind legislators in this place and have come asking for that one piece to actually be removed from this building, that we honour that request.

I want very much to work in partnership. I do be- lieve that it is about respect. I do believe that it's about respectful engagement, because this is a parliament. It's not any other place where one would display art. This is a parliament. This is an opportunity for dialogue, for creativity, for innovation, but it has to have a sense of fairness and a sense of welcome as we go forward. I believe that heart and so ul. I want very much for us to acknowledge that this is about pursuing respect and reconciliation with aboriginal peoples. I know col- leagues opposite have talked about symbolism.

Abso- lutely, this is an important symbol. This is an important message. It's an important action, and it's an important commitment that we will take forward. I truly want this place to be welcoming to every single British Co- lumbian who enters these walls. The students in the gallery today…. I don't want a single young person in British Columbia to ever ques- tion the rightness of their attendance in this place, not one — not the individuals today, not an aboriginal per- son across the land — to ever feel discontented or dis- comforted by being in this place.

That is not what this place should be about, and I feel that passionately. T h e r e h a v e t o b e o p p o r t u n i t i e s f o r u s t o d o w h a t i s right and fair. This is, I believe, the right action that we can take. I want us to take it collectively. I do believe — and it's certainly the recommendation in the report — that "the mural's location in the Parliament Buildings invests them with enormous significance for many groups across Brit- ish Columbia." Their location within the Parliament Buildings "in- vests them with enormous significance" — page 31 of the report.

So those who say, "Maybe we can just put some interpretive data around them…." It's their pres- ence in this place — in a parliament — that is at issue today. It's the principle of welcome that we must, in my view, convey more effectively, more stringently a n d m o r e v i g o r o u s l y t h a n w e h a v e c o n v e y e d i n t h e past. That is the issue that I rise to debate today. The panel unanimously recommends option 5 — that the murals be removed. I support that recommen- dation wholeheartedly, and again, I speak as a former teacher and as a school admi nistrator.

Buildings that speak to people must speak to all people. Parliaments do that more so than any other building or any other physical plant in the land. This place has energy, commitment and obligation vested in the people who come here. The people who come to this place as elected members do so because they want to make a contribution. I believe that. This would be an enormous contribution to what is right and to what is fair as we go forward as British Columbia. We're going to be 150 years old in 2008 — the sesqui- centennial of British Columbia in 2008.

How do we want next year and the year after and the years that follow to g o f or wa r d ? I w a nt i t t o g o fo r wa r d fr om a b a s i s o f an unfettered notion that this parliament welcomes every person in British Columbia — every ethnic group in British Columbia and every aboriginal person in British Columbia. I don't want there to be discontent or discom- fort experienced when people come to the people's building.

This is the people's parliament. [1545] Those who we represent today deserve to know that we as legislators believe, heart and soul, that this place needs to issue the strongest possible welcome to every single person who comes through the front doors — or any door — of this building. This is a building designed for people, for ideas, for innovation, for good works and for good will. It's a place where everyone needs to feel welcome. I couldn't believe that more strongly.

T h e n o t i o n t h a t w e h a v e a r e p o r t b e f o r e u s a n d a direction before us, I trust, will be supported by the members of this Legislature, because it's vitally impor- tant. We have begun a new relationship — respect and reconciliation. We've begun a new relationship. Every step along the way needs to be thoughtful, to be in- sightful, to be decent and to have tremendous human- ity attached to it. It's not about where else one might hang this art. It's about what we feel abou t this place, what the prin- ciple of interaction, welcome and, in my view, human decency is.

That's what this place is about. For me, it's not about any of those other issues, and I don't mean to diminish them in any way. The people who will speak to them will speak passionately about them. My purpose in rising today is to state as clearly as I possibly can that this is about respectful engagement. This is about continuing the new relationship in British Co- lumbia and doing so from a place of enormous respectful engagement. Engagement me ans both parties believe heart and soul that there is strength in terms of coming together and strength in how they come together.

And Shawn Atleo today in the rotunda…. It's no longer about what we might do to aboriginal people. It is what we will do with aboriginal people in British Columbia that will matter, that will make the differ- ence and that will carry us forward or not. I am part of a government that is moving forward. We are doing our best, as we go forward, to under- stand. The House Leader spoke of it earlier when he talked about a ceremony here in the fall, in November,

7100 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBA

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0424pm-09
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0424pm 09
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	ca314d5b0790d8ae80e71f034abb0639af779e3f

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