First Session, 43rd Parliament

Official Report

of Debates

( Hansard )

Wednesday, May 7, 2025

Afternoon Sitting

Issue No. 58

The Honourable Raj Chouhan , Speaker

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

Contents

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Statements

Emergency Alert Test

Hon. Kelly Greene

Introductions by Members

Statements

Tod Maffin and Nanaimo Infusion Tourism Initiative

George Anderson

Introductions by Members

Members’ Statements

Kim Novak

Darlene Rotchford

Mother’s Day

Misty Van Popta

Child Care Provider Appreciation Day

Rohini Arora

Northview Golf and Country Club

Linda Hepner

Hydrogen Energy and HTEC Operations

George Anderson

Kelowna Historical Society

Kristina Loewen

Oral Questions

Government Response to Overdose Death in Surrey Supportive Housing Facility

John Rustad

Hon. Ravi Kahlon

Death at Supportive Housing Facility and Oversight Issues

Claire Rattée

Hon. Ravi Kahlon

Management of Supportive Housing and Mental Health and Addiction Services

Claire Rattée

Hon. Ravi Kahlon

Mental Health Services and Stigma Reduction

Jeremy Valeriote

Hon. Josie Osborne

Safety of Seniors and Government Action on Issues

Korky Neufeld

Hon. Garry Begg

Lawrence Mok

Government Action on Poverty Among Seniors

Ian Paton

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson

Government Action on Seniors Care and Availability of Long-Term-Care Beds

Jody Toor

Hon. Josie Osborne

Government Action on Affordable Housing for Seniors

Teresa Wat

Hon. Ravi Kahlon

David Williams

Rosalyn Bird

Kristina Loewen

Government Response to Issues and Concerns

Trevor Halford

Hon. Ravi Kahlon

Reports from Committees

Private Bills and Private Members’ Bills , Bill M202, Eligibility to Hold Public Office Act

Amna Shah

Orders of the Day

Motions Without Notice

Deferral of Divisions in

Section B on May 7

Hon. Mike Farnworth

Second Reading of Bills

Bill 11 — Employment Standards Amendment Act, 2025 (continued)

Brennan Day

Rohini Arora

Anna Kindy

Bruce Banman

Korky Neufeld

Hon. Brittny Anderson

Bill 13 — Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act, 2025

Hon. Ravi Parmar

Donegal Wilson

Hon. Ravi Kahlon

Macklin McCall

Hon. Randene Neill

Tony Luck

Hon. Anne Kang

Ward Stamer

Kristina Loewen

Lynne Block

Bruce Banman

Heather Maahs

Lawrence Mok

Korky Neufeld

Bill 14 — Renewable Energy Projects (Streamlined Permitting) Act

Hon. Adrian Dix

Reporting of Bills

Bill 7 — Economic Stabilization (Tariff Response) Act

Second Reading of Bills

Bill 14 — Renewable Energy Projects (Streamlined Permitting) Act (continued)

Trevor Halford

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Transportation and Transit (continued)

Ward Stamer

Hon. Mike Farnworth

Brent Chapman

Harman Bhangu

Ian Paton

Brennan Day

Rosalyn Bird

Jeremy Valeriote

Jordan Kealy

Proceedings in the Birch Room

Committee of the Whole

Bill 7 — Economic Stabilization (Tariff Response) Act (continued)

Steve Kooner

Hon. Niki Sharma

Gavin Dew

Kiel Giddens

Rob Botterell

Bill 5 — Budget Measures Implementation Act, 2025

Peter Milobar

Hon. Brenda Bailey

Wednesday, May 7, 2025

The House met at 1:34 p.m.

[The Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: Hon. Jennifer Whiteside.

[1:35 p.m.]

Introductions by Members

Hon. Ravi Parmar : My former boss is in the House, the former MLA for Stikine, the pride of Hazelton,

former Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development.

I remember the day Doug Donaldson was sworn in by Premier Horgan into cabinet. He

was literally, within minutes of being sworn in, on his phone getting updates on wildfires,

back in 2017. He served this province through a number of tough years in forestry,

during wildfires, and has not stopped working.

I know that he serves on the board of the Northern Development Initiative Trust and

is doing some work with the University of Victoria, the Polis research group there.

I met with him yesterday. I think so highly of him. He has been a mentor to me.

I hope the House will join me in making Doug feel very welcome here today.

John Rustad : I also want to say hi to Mr. Donaldson as well.

Doug Donaldson was a critic of my ministry for a number of years. I was a critic of

his ministry for a number of years. And I just want to say, you know, they do say

when you leave politics you look ten years younger.

I hope the recovery is going well. You look good.

Welcome to the House.

Hon. Josie Osborne : It is my pleasure to introduce members from the B.C. College of Family Physicians,

including president Dr. Katherine Bell and vice-president Dr. Jennifer Lush.

The B.C. College of Family Physicians is the heart of family medicine here in British

Columbia, supporting family physicians and providing equitable, culturally safe, longitudinal

care for all British Columbians. The college provides support and advocacy to more

than 6,800 members across the province. We’re so thankful for the work that they do,

the work that all family physicians do, in delivering health care across our province.

Would the House please join me in making them feel most welcome.

Larry Neufeld : Before I start the introduction, I’m going to ask for leniency from those whose names

I’ve worked through my head. I’m going to apologize in advance here, but I’ll give

it my best.

I’d like to welcome to the House…. They’re not in the gallery that I can see, but

I want to welcome to the precinct representatives from the Canadian Hydrogen Association,

a group at the forefront of Canada’s clean energy transition, advancing innovation

and sustainability across the country — Mr. Nicolas Pocard, Mrs. Leah Michalopulos,

Mr. Colin Armstrong, Ms. Catherin Becerra, Mr. Dan Brock and Mr. Pranav Chandrasekar.

Please join me in extending a warm welcome to an outstanding delegation that we met

with today.

[1:40 p.m.]

Statements

Emergency Alert Test

Hon. Kelly Greene : I’d like to welcome to these chambers a very special and important guest who comes

twice a year to visit these chambers and, indeed, visit all of British Columbia.

You may be wondering, but I am actually introducing the emergency alert test, which

is going to be today at 1:55 p.m.

I want to remind members and people across the province that you’re going to be receiving

an alert on your mobile device, radio and TV at 1:55 today. In order to receive that

alert, you need to make sure that your settings on your cell phone are not on do not

disturb or airplane mode and that you’re up to date, connected to an LTE or 5G network.

We test it to make sure that we can get information to people in case of emergency.

It’s one of the ways we keep people in B.C. safe.

Please welcome the B.C. emergency alert.

Introductions by Members

Pete Davis : I have the honour today to introduce someone very special to me: my wife, Heather,

who is up here in the gallery today. This week marks our 23rd wedding anniversary,

and I’m super happy to have her here.

You guys, the truth is without her love and her strength, I wouldn’t be standing here

in this House today. She’s an important part of my life.

Let’s make her feel welcome.

Hon. Brittny Anderson : I have three very short introductions to make today.

First, I would like to welcome, from the regional district of Central Okanagan, Loyal

Wooldridge and Sally Ginter. I had two meetings with them today with Minister Kahlon.

Not only is Loyal a wonderful representative but also a really dear friend of mine.

Thank you so much for being with us in the House today.

Could the House please make them feel very welcome.

I would also like to welcome — I’m not sure if they’re watching question period, but

I know they’re on the precinct — the mayor of Kelowna, Tom Dyas, with his team Doug

Gilchrist, Derek Edstrom and Axelle Bazett.

Can the House please make them feel very welcome. I know they have several meetings

with ministers today.

Thank you for all the work that you do in Kelowna.

Lastly, it is very rare that I have a constituent in the House, so I was so grateful

when I got to see Dr. Johnny Chang, who is here today from the beautiful Creston Valley.

He is here with the College of Family Physicians.

Please welcome Dr. Johnny Chang and the family physicians.

Scott McInnis : I have a very special friend and guest in the gallery today, Mr. Don McCormick, who

is up in the top row.

Don is past president of the Kimberley Rotary Club, past president of the Kimberley

Chamber of Commerce, founding director of Tourism Kimberley, past chair of Community

Futures East Kootenay and Columbia Basin Trust director, and he’s currently serving

his third term as the mayor of Kimberley.

Don has transformed our town, changing from a quiet mining town that was going through

a transition into a world-class resort municipality.

I just want to welcome my friend to the gallery here today. Would you help me welcome

him.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Today I rise with great pride to introduce an extraordinary group of students from

my riding that are visiting us from École St-Sacrement.

This school is not only a 75-year-old francophone pillar of its community; it’s also

the birthplace of a remarkable global initiative called Young Citizens of the World.

Last year I had the honour of being interviewed by these students, along with our

Minister of Transportation. We were profoundly impressed by their curiosity, their

insight and their leadership.

What began as a classroom project evolved into a global movement connecting over one

million young people in 37 countries. They represent the very best of British Columbia,

and I am so proud of them.

I ask that all members of this House join me in welcoming the outstanding delegation

from École St-Sacrement: principal Mykyte, grade 5 teacher Marc-André Tremblay, grade

4 teacher Lukas Fitz and their incredible students and, of course, the dedicated parent

chaperones.

Bienvenue à l’assemblée législative. Thank you for being here.

Gavin Dew : I would like to echo the remarks across the way and welcome Mayor Tom Dyas from the

city of Kelowna, along with Doug Gilchrist, Derek Edstrom, Axelle Bazett, Kirby March

and Michelle Kam.

[1:45 p.m.]

The fine folks from the city of Kelowna are great advocates for a fast-growing community.

I know they’ve built great relationships on both sides of the House.

To the ministers opposite, I would say: please give them what they want, and then

I won’t ask you so many tough questions.

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : Joining us for, I believe, the first time to witness question period is the communications

team for Social Development and Poverty Reduction. We have five members: Arianna Sihota,

Tereza Ticha, Hauwa Bello-Kassim, Mike Allison and a woman who has supported me both

in Mental Health and Addictions Ministry and SDPR, Aygul Khalaileh.

Will the members please make them all very welcome.

Pete Davis : When I looked up in the gallery, I actually noticed somebody else from my riding.

Mr. Wayne Stetski is a city councillor in Cranbrook.

I just wanted to say welcome.

Nina Krieger : I’d like to recognize students behind me in the gallery today. They’re from Reynolds

Secondary’s flexible studies program, along with their dedicated teacher, Brad Cunningham.

This program provides students from grades 9 to 10 with opportunities to explore ideas

of their own choosing in different learning environments. They are now participating

in their own model parliaments, supported by our own B.C. legislative intern students,

who are also in the gallery today.

In a few weeks, these students will be sitting in this very chamber to debate their

own bills and legislation. I wish them all the luck and would like to recognize their

hard work and their curiosity about the democratic process and institutions.

Please join me in making them feel very welcome.

Statements

Tod Maffin and

Nanaimo Infusion Tourism Initiative

George Anderson : I rise to commend Nanaimo resident Tod Maffin for his grassroots initiative, the

Nanaimo Infusion, which took place on April 26. Sparked by a viral TikTok campaign,

we invited a number of Americans to our city, resulting in hundreds of trips that

were booked. For some of the people who showed up, they came for the Nanaimo bar and

then asked where the menu was. They didn’t get that.

This influx provided a great boost to our local economy, fostered cross-border goodwill,

and it’s a testament to how an individual’s creativity can positively impact our community.

Today I am actually wearing my “Tampa loves Nanaimo” bracelet.

Thank you, Tod, for bringing all of these Americans to Nanaimo.

Introductions by Members

Bruce Banman : I apologize. I stand up right now on behalf of my leader, who I believe is doing

a scrum, something about a missing cat. I’m not so sure on that. But I do stand up.

He did want to introduce…. I know that we all heard that it was his anniversary and

his beloved wife’s birthday, but there is another very important birthday within the

Rustad house. That is his beloved parrot Biardi’s 32nd birthday, which makes the parrot

a teenager, basically.

Would the House please give a warm welcome for Biardi.

Members’ Statements

Kim Novak

Darlene Rotchford : Today marks what would have been the 40th birthday of a beautiful soul who was taken

far too soon. Kim Novak was a passionate leader, a fierce advocate for workers, a

proud union sister, a proud New Democrat, a loving wife and a devoted mother of two

boys.

Many of us on this side of the House were blessed with a chance to work with her in

one capacity or another. As my friend the Minister of Labour has noted, Kim was a

joyful warrior. Her tireless advocacy for respect, safety and dignity for front-line

workers during the pandemic was nothing but extraordinary.

Kim gave her all, 100 percent, to the people she served through her union. Her journey

as a labour activist began as a summer student as a working clerk at Safeway. After

graduating from the University of British Columbia, she gave her career to UFCW 1518.

She served in various roles. But in 2019, Kim actually made history as the youngest

and first female president in UFCW 1518.

[1:50 p.m.]

She was a truly authentic leader. She was one of a kind. She had nothing but empathy

that made people feel they were all that mattered when she spoke to them. Her ability

to grocery store workers and the safety of poultry workers was unparalleled.

Even after her passing, Kim continued to be recognized. She was actually recognized

and awarded the King Charles III Medal by the former Minister of Labour, in her honour,

for her service and her union, within her community.

Kim’s smile was actually quite infectious for anyone who knew her. She never stopped

talking about how we could make lives better for her members and for all British Columbians.

Today you’ll notice many of us are wearing blue to remember Kim. This was her signature

colour and is the proud colour of UFCW 1518, which she wore with honour whenever you

saw her.

Happy 40th birthday, sister. Solidarity forever. Until we meet again.

Mother’s Day

Misty Van Popta : This coming Sunday, May 11, is Mother’s Day, a day of celebration for most, a day

of sadness for some, a day of trauma for others.

Not all women want to be mothers, while some women yearn for an opportunity to be

a mother that never happened. Some of us have the best mothers in the world, while

some of us have the worst mothers in the world. Some of us have lost our mothers,

and others of us have lost a child. Some of us are de facto mothers, and some of us

have the immense pleasure of being stepmothers.

Regardless of the type of mother you are, if you are a mother of any kind, we honour

you in this chamber today.

One type of mother I want to highlight is the single mother. If you know one, you

know what I’m about to say is true. Single moms are fierce. They are driven to survive,

they are resourceful, and they are fighters.

To the single mom who comes home after back-to-back jobs to catch the last 15 minutes

of their kid’s game, to help with science projects, throw in two loads of laundry,

then meal prep all lunch and dinners the next day: we stand with you.

To the single mom who holds three jobs while going back to school, who does their

own homework at midnight, who gets on ladders and mows lawns in the dark: we stand

with you.

To the single moms who have watched their child cry on your birthday because they

were sad they had no present to give you: we stand with you.

On this side of the House, we celebrate new moms who show up for work and still perform

their job. But on this side of the House, we don’t question any mother’s ability.

We do not question their ability to manage multiple jobs. We do not question a woman’s

integrity to follow through on promises made to her community.

On this side of the House, we fought for tax breaks to support single mothers. I encourage

everyone in this House to do the same thing, because words in this chamber have not

always reflected that sentiment.

As we go into this coming weekend, may we reflect on all types of moms that exist.

May we honour them, and may we support them.

Child Care Provider

Appreciation Day

Rohini Arora : I’m delighted to stand to recognize and celebrate Child Care Provider Appreciation

Day in B.C. I want to say a huge thank you to all of B.C.’s child care professionals

and workforce.

Early childhood educators are the heart of the child care sector. They are dedicated

professionals that help nurture and teach the youngest members of communities throughout

B.C. at some of the most important times in their lives. We know that helping children

learn through play, caring for their well-being and supporting their development of

social and emotional skills will have long-term positive outcomes throughout their

lives.

More broadly, ECEs and the teams that run child care sites are critical to making

our communities thrive as a whole. By doing this important job every day, they play

a vital role in giving working parents and caregivers, especially women and single

parents — who we honour too, on this side of the House, I might mention — who take

on so much care and work within families, the opportunity to work or go to school,

knowing their children are cared for and safe.

The work they do is absolutely critical, and the ChildCareBC plan cannot succeed without

them. That’s why we’ve supported them by implementing an ECE wage enhancement of up

to $6 an hour, bringing the median wage up to $29 an hour; developing and testing

a wage grid for ECEs, which is now being tested at more than 70 centres throughout

B.C.; and supporting more student spaces at public post-secondary ECE programs.

We are focused on growing and retaining the number of qualified child care providers

in B.C. We know there is still more good work to do, and we are continuing this work.

[1:55 p.m.]

I cannot thank all child care providers and early childhood educators throughout B.C.

enough for their hard work, their dedication and their compassion.

I invite all British Columbians to join me on Friday during Child Care Provider Appreciation

Day and all this child care appreciation month to celebrate the integral role child

care professionals play in the lives of children and the immense value of child care

in helping us build a core service that families can rely on for a stronger economy

and a brighter future for everyone in B.C.

Northview Golf and

Country Club

Linda Hepner : I rise to talk about an incredible destination in my riding, founded by the late

longtime Surrey residents Chick and Marilyn Stewart. The Northview Golf and Country

Club stands as a premier golf destination. It was built in collaboration with golf

legend Arnold Palmer. It consists of two distinct signature design courses, the Ridge

and the Canal.

The Ridge is characterized by tree-lined fairways; elevation changes, a lot of them;

and scenic lakes. It gained prominence by hosting first the PGA tour’s Greater Vancouver

Open and later the Air Canada Championship. A highlight in Canadian golf history occurred

in 1999, when Canadian Mike Weir secured his first PGA victory, becoming the first

Canadian to win a PGA event on home soil in more than 45 years.

The other course, the Canal, offers up Palmer’s risk-reward design philosophy with

expansive fairways and abundant water features. Who among the best of golfers hasn’t

enjoyed the occasional splash? It’s a lost-ball paradise.

Both Northview courses are open to the public, reflecting Chick and Marilyn Stewart’s

commitment to providing a first-class, exceptional golf experience without any membership

requirements. With its blend of world-class golf, rich history and outstanding amenities

and culinary options, Northview Golf and Country Club remains a cherished destination

for golfers and visitors alike.

I invite all of those in the House to visit this very special place in my riding of

Surrey–Serpentine River.

Hydrogen Energy and HTEC Operations

George Anderson : I rise to share a story not of far-off innovation but of a bold clean energy future

being built right here in British Columbia.

HTEC, the Hydrogen Technologies and Energy Corp., is a B.C.-based company that’s not

just talking about change; they are building it. In the Lower Mainland, they’ve built

Canada’s first network of retail hydrogen fuelling stations, connecting communities

from Vancouver to Burnaby to North Vancouver.

Currently they’re working towards the establishment of a hydrogen liquefaction facility

that will provide hundreds of jobs. In Nanaimo, HTEC is advancing a clean hydrogen

production facility that will help power everything from heavy-duty commercial trucking

to transit fleets right here on Vancouver Island.

Across the globe, Germany runs hydrogen trains, Japan is building hydrogen cities,

and California is rolling out hydrogen-powered transport trucks. The global hydrogen

market is projected to hit $500 billion by 2050, and B.C. has what it takes: talent,

technology and tenacity to lead.

Hydrogen is more than just energy. It’s a jobs plan, it’s a rural development plan,

and it’s a made-in-B.C. opportunity. Just imagine what this means for rural and urban

communities across British Columbia: welders and pipefitters building new infrastructure,

technicians maintaining clean fleets, engineers and tradespeople powering a zero-emission

economy.

Hydrogen is a symbol of what’s possible when we dare to lead, especially as we develop

our connections with Asia-Pacific, such as through the Port of Prince Rupert. Thanks

to companies like HTEC, that path runs through Nanaimo, the Lower Mainland and every

community ready to believe in what’s next.

[2:00 p.m.]

Let’s seize this moment and fuel a future made in B.C. by supporting innovation, supporting

entrepreneurs and leading in a way that will keep British Columbia as the best place

on earth.

Kelowna Historical Society

Kristina Loewen : Today I rise to draw your attention to an exceptional organization in Kelowna that

plays a crucial role in preserving and sharing the rich history of our community,

the Okanagan Historical Society. It was founded in 1925, 100 years ago. The Kelowna

branch was founded in 1948, and has been a pillar of our community for decades.

With a mission to keep the people and natural history of the Okanagan alive, the society

is powered by dedicated volunteers who are passionate about preserving and celebrating

our local heritage. Some of the remarkable work done by KHS includes weekly stories

in the Daily Courier , with over a thousand articles highlighting the vibrant history of our area.

Rewriting and publishing the third edition of the Kelowna Street Names book, which tells the stories of the individuals behind the names of our streets.

This book is available for purchase, by the way, through the Kelowna branch.

Restoration and signage work at the Kelowna Memorial Cemetery, where volunteers have

been recording historical information and restoring neglected graves, allowing visitors

to learn about our early pioneers in our area.

Social events like the summer picnic and the fall social offer a chance for members

to gather and share stories about the founding days of Kelowna.

A yearly calendar features old photographs of Kelowna, which not only helps raise

funds for the society but also preserves visual memories of our community.

Finally, the Father Pandosy Mission site also benefits from the society’s work, including

a yearly cleanup to maintain this important historical site.

The Kelowna historical society’s efforts help us connect with our roots and ensure

that the stories of those who came before us continue to inspire future generations.

I commend their dedication and encourage others to support their work as well.

I’d like to thank the dedicated volunteers, some of whom I know personally and count

as friends.

Oral Questions

Government Response to

Overdose Death in Surrey

Supportive Housing Facility

John Rustad : Diane Chandler was a 60-year-old mother, a Canucks fan and someone who had spent

years trying to find safety while living with addiction and mental health illness.

In 2023, she moved into the Foxglove supportive housing facility in Surrey, a site

this Premier once celebrated as a model for complex care.

Last April she died of an overdose alone in her room, and it took 11 days before anybody

noticed she was missing. Staff had mistakenly assigned another residence and falsely

signed off on a wellness check that never happened.

How did this government allow this to happen?

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : My heart goes out to this family. It’s unacceptable for someone to pass away and

the family not to be notified in that extended time frame. I appreciate that the people

that work in supportive housing work in very complex environments, and it comes with

great challenges. But it’s vitally important that when this type of incident happens,

families are notified and B.C. Housing is notified.

I appreciate the question from the member. I can share with the member that when this

came forward, we issued a notice to the not-for-profit provider that they are now

required to notify us within 24 hours if someone does pass away. I can share with

the member that we also changed the RTB rules to allow supportive housing sites to

do wellness checks.

We issued guidelines to all of the not-for-profit providers that they’re now required

to do wellness checks every 48 hours and required every day to do a verbal assessment

and a checklist to see who is coming in and who is coming out. All those changes were

made in response to this specific issue and concerns that we heard from our not-for-profit

providers last year.

Again, my heart goes out to this family. The goal of supportive housing is to support

people with mental health and addictions, and we’re going to continue to try to do

our best in all of our communities to save lives.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

[2:05 p.m.]

John Rustad : Once again, staff had mistaken another resident and falsely signed off on the wellness

checks. But this story gets worse. Diane’s children were devastated to learn the truth

only after she was cremated. And as the minister has said, B.C. Housing never contacted

the family — reached out to them, I should say.

This was not just a tragic oversight. It was a complete failure of care, a failure

of oversight and a failure of basic human dignity.

Although this is an issue, obviously, on housing, this is a failure of our health

system. The official opposition has been asking and calling out the Minister of Health

on many, many issues.

I’m wondering today if the Minister of Health will stand up, accept responsibility

for this and resign for the dismal state of health care in British Columbia.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : Again, I shared with the member our concern about what happened in this individual

case. I’ve shared with the member the actions that we’ve taken to ensure that all

supportive housing sites have practices put in place that ensure that the residents

are safe and taken care of.

I can share with the member that we’ve had debates in this building around having

safe spaces in buildings where people can use and have health care professionals near

them. I know it’s been heated debates, but the reason why these spaces are created

is so that people don’t die alone. We know from the data that, overwhelmingly, people

are dying alone. Even in this space, there was space dedicated to this, but because

of stigma associated with drug use, this individual was alone.

That again being said, we have seen some positive results of supportive housing in

our communities, but I know that’s cold comfort for this particular family. Again,

my heart goes out for them. I understand they’re frustrated, and I would be, as well,

if I lost a loved one in this situation.

We have changed practices across the province because of this incident. It all started

last year, and we’re going to continue to do what we can to support every single individual

that finds themselves in either supportive housing or complex care.

Death at Supportive Housing

Facility and Oversight Issues

Claire Rattée : The story of Diane Chandler that the Leader of the Opposition just spoke about is

not new to the opposition or this government. We have been bringing these issues to

this chamber for weeks. All we’ve heard are platitudes and excuses from the other

side. I don’t doubt their sincerity, but the fact is that they aren’t getting the

job done.

If the Health Minister and the Housing Minister are not willing to take responsibility

for this failure, then I would ask: is the Parliamentary Secretary for Mental Health

and Addictions willing to take responsibility for this problem?

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : Again, I have laid out the immediate steps that were taken to address this situation

to the member. The member and I canvassed this at great lengths in estimates as well.

It’s vitally important that we continue to have opportunities for people to get into

housing, to get the supports they need. But we also have to work together to lower

the stigma associated with using drugs. Because even in this situation, where there

was the space available for someone to use in a safe space with staff, it wasn’t taken

up.

We have a lot of work to do, but we are doing that. We’re expanding opportunities

in our communities for more people to come off.

Surely the member would agree with me that if we want to save lives, the best way

we can do that is to get people indoors, get them with supports that they desperately

need in our communities. We are seeing results, because we are seeing people having

less interaction with the health care system, less interaction with the corrections

and police systems by having them in supportive housing.

Again, it doesn’t help this family. I appreciate that. I share in their sadness, but

I can never imagine the pain that they feel.

That being said, we want to make sure we continue to expand this type of support in

all of our communities so we can help every single individual.

The Speaker : Member for Skeena, supplemental.

Management of Supportive

Housing and Mental Health

and Addiction Services

Claire Rattée : This isn’t an issue of stigma; this is an issue of incompetence. The minister is

correct. We did canvass this in estimates already, and I can’t help but notice that

this specific facility, the Foxglove facility, wasn’t mentioned, probably because

this government knew about this and was trying to keep it quiet for over a year. It

took 11 days to find this woman’s body. Ten days later another person overdosed there.

Her daughter said that when she went to visit her there, she saw open signs of drug

use everywhere.

[2:10 p.m.]

Mental health and addictions care is in chaos, and the blame rests at the feet of

this Premier. The late Premier John Horgan did the right thing. He created a stand-alone

Ministry of Mental Health and Addictions. He clearly saw the urgency in this crisis.

This Premier axed this ministry and demoted its relevance to a parliamentary secretary,

who is utterly failing.

Will the Premier swallow his pride and recreate a ministry of mental health and addictions

and an actual mandate with measurable outcomes to finally solve the crisis that B.C.

is facing?

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : Every question that the member asked in estimates, I answered. To suggest that we

were hiding something is utterly false.

In this situation, I’ve laid out pretty clearly that the staff that were working there

believed they saw the individual and put a check mark beside their name when, in fact,

it was someone else. It was a mistake made by staff — an unacceptable mistake, in

my opinion. That being said, we’ve taken considerable steps to address that. I laid

those things out in detail.

We heard from supportive housing providers that they weren’t able to do wellness checks

because they were limited by the rental tenancy branch. We changed that to allow them

to do wellness checks when they felt it was appropriate and also put in policies to

be able to monitor who goes in and out of these facilities, not only for the safety

of the people who work there but for the safety of the residents that live there.

I shared with the member that we issued guidance to all supportive housing after this

situation to say that they are required to do a wellness check on every individual

every 48 hours and keep a log daily of who they see come in and who goes.

I fully appreciate that this is cold comfort for this family. I understand that.

What we’re trying to do here is ensure that we lower the stigma around mental health

and addiction and create opportunities for people to get into safe housing and to

get the supports they need. It’s been successful for many, and I do acknowledge that

for some, it’s just not enough. But we’ll continue to do what we can to support everyone.

Mental Health Services

and Stigma Reduction

Jeremy Valeriote : As we have noted already, stigma around mental health support is a growing concern

in our province. People experiencing mental health challenges are not receiving the

support they need and are discouraged from seeking help out of fear of repercussion

and judgment.

There has been an undermining of trust in mental health support which deters people

from asking for the help they need. It’s the role of our government to create conditions

in society where people feel able and willing to seek help without fear of stigmatization

and further barriers.

My question is for the Minister of Health. What steps is the ministry taking to combat

the growing stigma of mental health support and increase public awareness of services

so that those suffering don’t feel helpless and alone?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question and again raising the incredibly important

topic of mental health and mental health supports during this week, Mental Health

Week, May 5 to 11.

This government remains committed to building out a continuum of care that fully integrates

and acknowledges that mental health is part of everybody’s health — physical, spiritual,

cultural, mental. That includes working in schools and working through public education

campaigns to help reduce stigma, increasing access for youth through programs like

the Foundry and integrating child and youth care teams right into schools, and increasing

access to counsellors for just the average person living in British Columbia.

Over the last year, over 29,000 people have accessed free or low-cost counselling,

over half of them for the first time ever. It is so important that we have this conversation

about ending the stigma around being your true self, about talking about the challenges

that people face, about preventing small problems from snowballing into larger problems.

I am wholly dedicated to this work. I appreciate the member’s question.

The Speaker : Leader of the Third Party, supplemental.

Jeremy Valeriote : Thanks to the minister for that response.

Addressing stigma is only useful if the continuum of care being provided is effective,

evidence-based and person-centred. I appreciate the mention of youth and Foundry.

As we know, implementing an early intervention system of care for those experiencing

mental health challenges is a critical step that our health care system has historically

neglected. Reactive spending on more policing and a reliance on crisis-level response

have taken attention away from addressing the root causes of mental health challenges.

Intervention should be in place at multiple levels of an individual’s mental health

journey, before they reach crisis.

For the Minister of Health, again, how is this government investing in preventative

and proactive mental health care to provide British Columbians with the wraparound

support they deserve?

[2:15 p.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question.

This year’s budget includes $500 million of new funding to support mental health and

substance use issues. I’ve already spoken about some of the programs that this government

has undertaken, and we’re going to continue to do this.

We’re going to continue to build out the continuum of care, to work with children

and youth all the way through adulthood, doing everything that we can to normalize

the conversations that we need to have to support children and youth, to support adults,

to help prevent small problems from becoming big problems, because we see all too

often, as we’ve canvassed in this House, that these problems are serious and have

absolutely devastating results for people and for their families.

This government remains committed to this work. We’re going to continue to do that.

By integrating the mental health and addictions ministry back into Health, we acknowledge

that this is about holistic approaches to health care. We’re going to continue to

do that work.

Safety of Seniors and

Government Action on Issues

Korky Neufeld : Safety of seniors is a real concern. Seniors also deserve to walk safely down their

own neighbourhood streets. However, under this government, of all crimes reported

to police against seniors, two-thirds were physical assaults.

Why has this soft-on-crime Premier left seniors to fend for themselves on the dangerous

streets of British Columbia?

Hon. Garry Begg : To the member opposite, it’s important that we believe that all citizens in British

Columbia should feel safe. As a matter of fact, the incidence of crimes against senior

citizens is no greater than against other people.

Our repeat violent offender program is a good example of an intervention program that

we have to make a difference and to help people to break the cycle of offending. This

crime that you talk about is largely perpetrated by people who are part of a system.

If we involve them — in this case, the ReVOII hub — then we get to monitor them, and

we get to curb their behaviour.

That’s a program that works. That’s a program that speaks well of the system, and

we will continue that program.

Lawrence Mok : I have seen seniors being abused. I witnessed firsthand a man verbally abuse his

own mother, and according to the seniors advocate, reports of abuse and neglect of

seniors rose 21 percent between 2019 and 2023.

Can the minister provide updated figures today so we can understand the full scale

and scope of senior abuse in B.C.?

Hon. Garry Begg : To the member opposite, again I say that British Columbians deserve to feel safe

all across the province. There is no greater an incidence of crimes against seniors

than there is against any other group.

We’re building, we’re strengthening policing in this province, also rebuilding the

critical services that make people feel safe. The old government, the opposition leader’s

old government, cut funding for programs like this for crime prevention and victim

services.

They ended the prolific offender management program that reduced offending by 40 percent

overall. They cut $360 million from health care. Mental health and addiction services

were lost or seriously reduced.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members. Members.

Hon. Garry Begg : What we have to do is deal with the problem, and we’re doing it.

Government Action on

Poverty Among Seniors

Ian Paton : Just yesterday a 73-year-old constituent came into my Ladner office in tears. Her

pension is $1,800 a month. Her rent is $1,800 a month. Now she’s broke and facing

eviction in nine days from now.

Her belongings are about to be auctioned off because she can’t afford the $1,200 storage

bill, and the Ministry of Poverty Reduction denied her crisis help because she’s not

already a client.

Is this what we’ve come to in British Columbia, seniors left homeless and humiliated?

[2:20 p.m.]

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : That sounds like a very hard story. I would appreciate working with the member so

that we can find out what happened and we can get seniors the support that they need

and deserve.

Seniors income support is delivered by the federal government once somebody turns

65, but that has not stopped our government from investing in seniors — expanding

the SAFER grant to help them with rent; building affordable housing targeted especially

at seniors; we have doubled the senior supplement that goes on top of federal income

supports; and of course, building out more affordable long-term care and other supports.

I look forward to working with the member to navigate the system and get this individual

the support that they need.

Government Action on

Seniors Care and Availability

of Long-Term-Care Beds

Jody Toor : Before the election, the Premier promised 4,000 new long-term-care beds, yet months

later not a single shovel is in the ground. Meanwhile, seniors are stuck in 60-year-old

buildings, hospitals are jammed and this government quietly killed the EquipCare,

a low-cost program that actually helped seniors. No beds. No equipment. No urgency.

If seniors care is a real priority, why does this government keep treating it like

an afterthought?

Hon. Josie Osborne : It is so important to make sure that seniors have all the care that they deserve.

They have helped build this province, and it’s incumbent on all of us to do everything

that we can to support people in this stage of their life.

That’s why we are taking action across government, across many ministries, to support

seniors. That includes adding more than 5,400 new and replacement beds at 33 different

long-term-care facilities.

It includes hiring more home care workers and expanding programs that help seniors

stay in their own homes, because we know that when a senior is able to stay at home,

they can live a healthier life at home, surrounded by their family and in contact

with their community, getting the supports that they need. We’ve piloted a long-term

care at home program for seniors, a program that is having real results.

We are not going to back down from the support that we know seniors deserve. We’re

going to keep doing this work.

Government Action on

Affordable Housing for Seniors

Teresa Wat : This government fast-tracks low barrier, unsupervised supportive housing in Richmond

without consulting the community. Meanwhile, Richmond’s elders are stuck on the wait-list

for years without affordable, safe options.

Why does the Minister of Emergency Management and Climate Readiness allow vulnerable

seniors in Richmond always — always — to come second under this NDP government?

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : You’ve heard clearly from this side of the House that we realize the importance of

supporting seniors.

The member talks about fast-tracking projects in her community, supportive housing

projects. Surely the member knows that the fastest demographic of people who find

themselves homeless are seniors.

The contradiction of all the questions talking about how do we support seniors and

then the member stands up, criticizing the program that we’re putting out to support

the seniors that live in that community. It’s shameful, absolutely shameful.

The member will also know….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : If the Leader of the Opposition has additional questions, I’m happy to answer them.

Interjection.

The Speaker : Minister, continue.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : The member is asking about housing for seniors and supporting seniors. Surely the

member knows that the largest investment in affordable housing for seniors in her

community has come under our government. We have invested in more affordable housing

for seniors in Richmond than they have seen in the previous 30 years.

I appreciate the member is sensitive because she was the minister in the B.C. Liberal

government and didn’t take action to support those seniors with affordable housing

in her own community.

We believe that supporting seniors during challenging times is vitally important.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Minister.

[2:25 p.m.]

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : It’s not about the press releases. It’s about seeing the units opening up and seeing

people moving in and realizing how big of an impact that makes in their lives. We’re

going to continue to do that work across every single community in British Columbia.

David Williams : I hope those announcements actually turn into completed projects.

In Salmon Arm and across the Shuswap, seniors are facing an impossible choice, staying

in aging homes they can no longer manage or leaving the region entirely because there

are no affordable assisted-living spaces available.

What is this government going to do to ensure seniors in Salmon Arm can access safe,

affordable housing with appropriate levels of care before it’s too late?

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : Again, we value the importance of supporting seniors. The member opened his question

saying that he hoped to see some of those units open. Perhaps I can share with the

member Birch Place, 540 3rd Street, in his community, 35 units open. Perhaps he can

go and visit them.

Another 32 homes have opened up in his community at Larch Place. There are another

64 affordable rentals that are at Andover Terrace, 2110 Lakeshore Road. And there’s

a project right now under construction with Habitat for Humanity.

I can assure the member that he’s not seen this type of investment in his community

before. If he believes there’s more, I welcome him to raise that.

We believe in supporting seniors. We believe in supporting people in our communities.

That’s why we’re making the largest investment in the history of our province in affordable

housing, because for two decades, governments decided that it wasn’t a priority.

Rosalyn Bird : Affordable housing is not assisted living.

Aspen seniors housing in Prince George should be providing low-income housing for

those in need. However, the Northern Health CEO has confirmed that units have been

available for more than six months.

Why, during a housing crisis, when there is no availability of affordable senior housing

and the UHNBC remains overcrowded, is this government letting these housing units

sit empty?

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : I appreciate the member is asking the question, and I think the member knows what

the answer is going to be. Also, the largest investment in the history of Prince George

has come under our government investing in affordable housing.

Quebec Street House, 36 homes open. On 1919 17th Avenue, 57 units of housing open.

At 679 Dagg Road, housing for folks with special needs. We have on 2541 Oak Street,

Prince George, another six units that have opened. And 1975 Bowser Avenue, phase 1,

50 units open. I’ve got pages I can read through, but I know we’re limited for time.

I will continue to say to members, to the questions that are coming today, that we

value the importance that our seniors have contributed to our province. We believe

that seniors who have worked their entire lives deserve to be supported when they

need it most.

That’s why we’ve expanded the SAFER program, so that not only can seniors get more

money, but more seniors can qualify. That’s why we’re investing historic amounts of

dollars to get more units open, because we believe every senior deserves to be able

to live in the community that they’ve grown up in.

Kristina Loewen : That’s great that is the largest investment in Prince George ever but still doesn’t

explain why those units are empty.

In Kelowna, a senior was fined $27,000 for trying to move into her own home after

renting it out to long-term tenants during the pandemic. This happened while she was

undergoing critical liver treatment, and she had to move in with her daughter in Alberta.

She wasn’t flipping her house. She wasn’t speculating. She was trying to recover.

Why has this Premier created a system so cold and bureaucratic that even the sick

get punished?

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : It’s hard to answer the specific question of the member. There wasn’t enough detail

provided. If there are details, the member knows that we are available to help address

specific issues.

[2:30 p.m.]

I’m not sure what the question pertains to, but I would just also say to the member,

in the line of housing and affordable housing, that her mayor is here today. He may

even be in the chamber. I want to thank him for the amazing work he and his councillors

have been doing.

But Kelowna has also seen the largest investment in affordable housing in the history

of this province.

Again, the member has a question, which…. I just apologize. I don’t fully understand

the context. But if there are details, I’m happy to get back to the member.

Government Response to

Issues and Concerns

Trevor Halford : Earlier in question period, my colleague from Delta South raised a pretty sad and

tragic story. The response from the minister was: “Bring it to me. We’ll work on it.”

It’s been brought to that minister’s office, and it’s been sitting there, sitting

in the minister’s office.

Time and time again in this House, we bring questions here to question period, and

what we hear is: “Bring it forward, and we’ll work with you.” We’ve done that. We’re

bringing these issues forward, and we’re getting nothing. So either the ministers

are unaware of it, or they’re choosing not even to answer in some cases. We’ve got

the receipts.

The Premier got up, and said he is going to work with every MLA in this House — every

MLA. So what do we get? Every NDP MLA has a title over there, and responsibility.

There is more political staff in this building than there has ever been before. Some

ministers have over eight.

The fact is that they can’t even reply to an MLA on casework. It is absolutely unacceptable.

The Speaker : Question, Member.

Interjections.

Trevor Halford : They can say it’s not true.

The Speaker : Question, Member.

Trevor Halford : The question is a direct one, and it’s to the Premier, or to anybody….

Interjection.

The Speaker : Member, shhh.

Trevor Halford : Who am I? I’m the guy that does his job. You must be the other guy.

Interjection.

Trevor Halford : Give me a break. The fact of the matter is….

The Speaker : Member, let’s get the question.

Trevor Halford : My question is to the Premier, and it’s a direct one. Does he approve of the fact

that MLAs and ministers are unaware of cases that are coming into his office, or is

he aware of the fact that they are not even responding?

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : First off, members across this chamber know when they come to ministers with issues,

we work with all members to try to solve the issues. The member is complaining about

emails. The member surely knows that he was with the B.C. Liberal government when

they did not reply to the emails.

Interjections.

[The Speaker rose.]

The Speaker : Members. Members, shhh.

Come to order.

Minister will conclude.

[The Speaker resumed their seat.]

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : They didn’t reply to the emails. They triple-deleted them. They triple-deleted the

emails. In fact, they had a….

Interjections.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : The member for Surrey-Cloverdale can’t control herself, consistently heckling in

this place.

Interjections.

[The Speaker rose.]

The Speaker : Members.

Member for Surrey–White Rock.

The question has been asked. Let the minister conclude it. We are almost done.

[The Speaker resumed their seat.]

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : Thank you, hon. Speaker.

Now, my friend from Delta South asked a question about senior supports, and the member

knows we have 300 affordable housing units for seniors opening up. I know he knows,

because he was there with me when we put shovels in the ground.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : The member for Surrey-Cloverdale can’t seem to control her temper consistently in

this House. I am happy to answer the question when she can.

Interjection.

The Speaker : Member for Surrey-Cloverdale.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : I am glad the children have left, because that is a poor example of how to act in

this place. For a hopeful future leader of the Conservative Party, certainly that

is not how you want to act in this place.

We continue to make historic investments to support seniors. I appreciate the member’s

concern about his email.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh, Members.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : We will make sure we try to respond to all their emails in a timely manner.

[End of question period.]

Interjection.

The Speaker : Member, please.

[2:35 p.m.]

Reports from Committees

Private Bills and

Private Members’ Bills

Amna Shah : The Select Standing Committee on Private Bills and Private Members’ Bills reports

Bill M202, intituled Eligibility to Hold Public Office Act, complete without amendment.

The Speaker : Thank you, Member. Bill M202, Eligibility to Hold Public Office Act, will proceed

to report stage during the next private member’s time.

Point of Order

Harwinder Sandhu : I rise to raise a point of order regarding the member for Surrey–White Rock for saying

twice, utterly falsely, accusing me of not doing my job, which I am proud to be, and

I can tell how I’ve done my job and how people recognize it.

Again, I’m proud to represent the people of Vernon-Lumby by working seven days a week.

I want him to withdraw his remarks.

The Speaker : Member for Surrey–White Rock, if you have any reply.

I caution all members. When we are exchanging questions and answers, sometimes in

a heated discussion, we go overboard. Please do not make any personal comments.

When there is a question for the executive council members, they should be answering

that, and it’s their prerogative who stands up and who doesn’t.

Orders of the Day

Motions Without Notice

Deferral of Divisions

in

Section B on May 7

Hon. Mike Farnworth : Before I get to the main business, I’ve just been chatting with the Opposition House

Leader, and I’ve also talked to the Green Party House Leader. I want to move:

[That, pursuant to Standing Order 16 (4), any division called in

Section B upon Orders of the Day on Wednesday, May 7,

2025, be deferred until 8.30 p.m.]

I want to add a caveat to that. I’m going to discuss with the Opposition House Leader

that that time may change, but it will be by agreement between the two of us, because

we both have the same issue we are trying to resolve.

The Speaker : Members, you heard the question.

Motion approved.

Hon. Mike Farnworth : In this chamber, I call continued second reading debate on Bill 11, Employment Standards

Amendment Act.

In

Section A, the Douglas Fir Room, I call continued estimates debate for the Ministry

of Transportation and Transit.

In

Section C, the Birch Room, I call continued committee stage on Bill 7.

[Lorne Doerkson in the chair.]

Second Reading of Bills

Bill 11 — Employment Standards

Amendment Act, 2025

(continued)

Deputy Speaker : Good afternoon, Members. We’ll ask for conversations to move to the hall as we’ve

got business to conduct here.

[2:40 p.m.]

We are considering Bill 11, of course, and we’ll look to Courtenay-Comox for continued

debate on Bill 11.

Brennan Day : I won’t relitigate. I think our member for Prince George–Mackenzie did an excellent

job summarizing the issues around this bill. While this bill is going to see some

progress — I think we can all agree with most portions of this bill — I do feel there

are some things that we need to discuss in Bill 11 that are going to have some broader

impacts.

I want to start with something that the minister mentioned during the introduction

of this bill, which was the conversation around fees for doctor’s notes. I do have

to question why we’re even paying for these at all. I’ll say it again: in a public

health care system like ours in British Columbia, why are we being asked to pay out-of-pocket

for these doctor notes in the first place? That’s a question, I think, that will have

broad appeal on that side of the House, as well as this side of the House, when we’re

facing such a large affordability crisis.

That’s effectively fee-for-access health care, and it fundamentally undermines the

idea of universal care in the province of British Columbia. It’s certainly not something

I think this government would support. But eight years later, we haven’t seen any

progress on that whatsoever. We shouldn’t be nickel-and-diming patients for proof

of being sick. Both sides of the House will agree with this.

Let’s be clear. It’s the type of jobs that require sick notes that I think we do need

to discuss. I’m speaking in broad strokes here: it’s the people that can least afford

to get the note, or the time off to get the note, that are generally required to get

the note. Managers call in sick, they take it at face value and move on. The shift

worker that’s there to sling concrete, hammer nails…. Those are the people that are

getting questioned on sick notes.

There are a few other things. Let’s add the lack of a definition in this bill for

what actually constitutes short term. It’s not in here. We’re told it’s coming later.

I’d venture both sides of the House to agree with the five statutory sick days that

are already on the books. That seems a reasonable place to start that discussion.

I’d also argue, and both sides of the House will likely agree, that if somebody is

sick longer than five days, they should probably see a doctor anyways. It’s common

sense. But this bill doesn’t say that. It punts it to regulation sometime later. We’re

off to a bit of a murky start, but I am looking forward to that conversation as this

bill proceeds through.

Look, I get it. Before this

chapter in my life, I ran a mental health non-profit.

Sometimes, I still think I’m working in mental health here in this House. We didn’t

ask for sick notes either. We trusted people. We didn’t want to add another hoop for

someone already navigating anxiety, depression, trauma or just burnout, let alone

bringing them in with a cold or a flu. But that system is built on trust, flexibility

and compassion. And we could do it. We were fairly small.

But there’s a difference. A small, nimble non-profit — we knew our staff. We were

hands-on, We knew our staff struggled with mental health issues. We all had a mutual

understanding of what that

interpretation needed to look like. We could have honest

conversations around it. We could offer support, not just permission.

That worked in that area. But this is provincial legislation applied to half a million

employers and nearly three million workers. It’s not being introduced out of compassion.

I feel that this is being introduced out of necessity. I’m going to go into that in

a little more detail here today.

Here’s where it gets a little more serious: 1.1 million British Columbians don’t have

access to a family doctor. That’s one in five people in this province without reliable,

ongoing longitudinal care. And if you do have one, well, good luck seeing them. The

average wait time for a routine visit in this province is now closing in on two weeks,

and that’s assuming they haven’t left the practice or your doctor has switched on

you. I know. I go when I have to. I’m not a regularly scheduled doctor person — like

most people.

Try a walk-in clinic. Well, better pack a lunch. In some cases, you need to pack breakfast

and dinner too. If you have kids, make sure you bring a device charger, a blanket,

a folding chair, because you’re not getting out of there quickly, if you can even

get in at all.

B.C. has the longest average wait times in the country, 93 minutes to access walk-in

care. In the Comox Valley, that number isn’t even close to being accurate, by the

way. We’re measuring it in days there, by this point. If you don’t show up by 6 a.m.

to wait in line for an eight o’clock opening, you will not get a spot that day. This

is the state of health care in B.C.

[2:45 p.m.]

I’ll return to where that impacts this bill. This bill removes one of the last remaining

points of contact between people and the health care system. And we’re being asked

to stand and clap for this on behalf of workers.

We’ll get there. We’ll all agree on the ultimate outcome of this bill. But what we

have to acknowledge is we are now normalizing non-access. We’re not fixing the system

with this bill. We’re rewriting the rules to pretend that the system isn’t broken.

I’m not here to defend bureaucracy for its own sake. I am standing on this side of

the House, after all. We’re still firmly on the smaller government check box. Nobody

wants to clog up waiting rooms just to tick a box.

But let’s be honest. Sick notes, as mundane as they are, do serve a critical purpose.

They’re a touchpoint, a check point, a moment where someone who might otherwise avoid

care actually gets seen.

Maybe it’s nothing. Most of the time it is. It’s a flu. You need a prescription. You

need an inhaler. Really basic health care. Health care that you used to just be able

to call your doctor, and he’d see you. Ten minutes later no problem, and out the door

you go. That’s not the state of British Columbian health care now.

What if it turns out to be something worse? What if it’s not just a flu that needs

some basic antivirals? Maybe it’s a chest pain.

We’re taking that touchpoint moment out of the equation as we deliver health. We’re

throttling health care, in effect, because we do not have the capacity in this province

to deliver services. We’re saying: “Don’t worry about checking in. Don’t bother getting

looked at. Just stay home.”

Absolutely, in many cases, probably in most cases, that’s absolutely the right advice.

You’re sick? Don’t come into work. We all understand this. We all lived through COVID.

God forbid anybody come in with a cold during COVID. You’d be pilloried out in the

parking lot. This is not that time now. We are talking about a broken health care

system, and this is a band-aid.

The minister says this will free up doctors’ time. On paper, that sounds absolutely

reasonable. The NDP proposing to move red tape is actually a breath of fresh air.

The first bill that I’ve seen that does it. It’s a nice change of pace from that side

of the House.

But I’m going to ask this: how much time is there to actually free up when there are

no doctors to begin with? We’re still short thousands of family physicians in this

province. Urgent care centres can’t stay open past lunchtime, if they’re even open

at all. Walk-ins are shutting down early because nobody shows up to work the shift,

if they even still exist.

In the Comox Valley, for instance — I’ll use it; it’s my local riding — four walk-in

clinics have been shuttered over the last few years, leaving us with one functional

clinic at Walmart. If you get there less than an hour before it opens, you will not

be seen that day. I’ve been in that lineup with a sick kid, so I can attest to the

frustration of having to drive to my local ER to get services that were once provided

by our basic primary care system, and we cannot access those services now.

Rural ERs in places like Merritt, Lillooet and Oliver are diverting patients daily.

And I’m going to take a minute just to put it on the record. Diversion is an NDP comms

department euphemism for an ER closure. When you walk up to a closed ER in this province

and you get told they’re on diversion, that’s simply not good enough. That is a comms

team spin if I’ve ever heard it. Orwell himself would be proud of that one.

Sorry. Back to Bill 11. I suppose the other side is going to call for me to come up

with solutions. What would we do differently? I’ve heard that many times in this House.

We’re the opposition. It is our job to point out flaws, I’ve been told.

Getting rid of the requirement to see one in the first place. This isn’t health care

reform. This bill doesn’t reform health care in any meaningful way. I look at it as

simple health care surrender. We don’t see any health care innovation. I don’t see

a forward-looking plan on how to attach more people to doctors, to incentivize doctors

to practise walk-in care, which they used to be. It used to be reasonably lucrative

for them. Four or five doctors could all share a clinic. They could all work a few

extra days, speed people in and out. It was beneficial for the system.

This government promised that they’d improve urgent care and said we don’t need walk-in

clinics anymore, except the urgent care never came.

[2:50 p.m.]

Let me put it this way. We don’t have a forward-looking plan. We’re just lowering

the bar, shifting the goalpost and hoping people don’t notice exactly what it is.

If everyone in B.C. had timely access to a physician, this bill would be absolutely

unnecessary. Individuals who were sick would get care. They’d be seen by the system,

by the doctors tasked to look after them.

What are we really doing here? Here’s where it gets a bit murky. This government hasn’t

said how many sick days can be taken without documentation. That’ll come by regulation

later, carte blanche approval and away we go. So we’re debating a bill with no clear

rules, no defined limits and no idea how this is going to be applied in practice.

If it’s like any of the other bills we’ve seen before this House during this session,

we know that the government has not done fulsome consultation with all of the affected

stakeholders. I’ll point to Bill 7 as another example of an oopsy and a quick backtrack

once we realized the problems with the legislation and the overreach. I don’t have

any faith in this government that this won’t be another case of that with Bill 11.

I look forward to being surprised.

Let’s talk about the potential for abuse, because we have to do that here today and

put it on the record. It’s not an esoteric discussion. Abuse does happen. We know

that. We all know somebody that has taken Friday as a sick day and gone skiing. I’ve

certainly done it myself. So it’s not just abuse by employers; it is abuse by employees.

It cuts both ways.

Most people are honest. They take what they need, and they do not try to game the

system. But policy isn’t built for the average day. It has to count for the exceptional

ones too. Because when you remove checks and balances from a system and you don’t

backstop it with real, accessible health care, what do you think happens? You get

confusion. You get gaps. You open the door for misuse and abuse, not just by individuals

but by the system itself.

I’ll give you a couple of theoretical examples to consider. Small landscaping business

up in Cumberland, in the Minister of Health’s riding. Fifteen employees. Tight margins.

Work very much dependent on weather. Three workers all call in sick on the same day.

No notes. No follow-up. The owner is now short-staffed, behind

schedule and under

pressure to complete the job before it starts raining again, which never happens on

Vancouver Island.

Maybe all are genuinely unwell. That is the relationship most people should have —

employers with employees that they can trust. But there’s no ability to verify, no

system in place to verify. He’s forced to guess, and he’s going to eat those costs

either way. We need to ensure that there’s some balance here.

Or we can look at it the other way. Imagine a front-line service agency already stretched

thin, where burnout is a known issue. I can’t think of any where that would apply

these days, given the lack of staffing. Without any kind of physician check or support,

workers may push through real, treatable conditions without ever getting the help

they need.

I am sure everybody here knows exactly the person that would do that. I think we have

some in our caucus — I know you have some in yours — where they will never admit that

they are sick. They would lop a leg off and go full Monty Python, with no arms and

no legs, into this House to deliver a smashing line.

I’d like to draw this back. That touchpoint prompts people to get back and to return

to work. Whatever the timing is of this, whether we go five days or there’s a negotiated

length of time, we need to consider this as it affects mental health as well. Because

in mental health, isolationism is rampant, where people just say they’re sick. They

go. They don’t come back.

If there’s no reason for them to go seek medical treatment, they certainly won’t.

They will not go see a doctor. They will stay at home, without a framework in place

to ensure that at some point they have to go see that doctor, to ensure that they

get that help.

This isn’t just about fraud, although that’s certainly a case. We won’t solve that

with this bill. It probably won’t get worse with this bill. We know that that’s an

issue. It’s about missed care, lost productivity and a breakdown in trust between

employers, employees and the health care system.

Under this bill, there’s no requirement for that medical moment to happen — no conversation,

no diagnosis. Just take some time off and hope for the best. What gets lost is the

opportunity to catch something serious early, whether it’s pneumonia, a mental health

episode or the first signs of diabetes. A few more weeks in this chamber and, likely,

many of us will need to take a few days off for those reasons ourselves.

[2:55 p.m.]

Good policy creates safety nets and accountability. This bill removes a bit of that

accountability but leaves a net full of holes.

Let me be crystal clear. I support reducing red tape. We desperately need to do that

in this province. I support workers, and I support common sense.

But let’s be honest. This bill really isn’t about that. It’s about relieving pressure

not on people but on a health care system that is struggling, a system that is so

overwhelmed, so backlogged and so short-staffed that the only answer they’ve come

up with is to lower expectations.

Bill 11 does this, I suppose, but we’re now in the business of pretending that fewer

appointments with your health care professionals equals progress, that fewer people

seeing a doctor must mean things are getting better. No, it means that the line got

so long that people gave up waiting in it. Do you know what that means? I’ll be as

charitable as I can here on this. Outcomes tend to worsen the longer that people wait

to see health care.

Let me offer an actual alternative. If this government is serious about reducing the

need for sick notes, fix the doctor shortage and fund primary care properly so that

people can actually access help in a timely manner.

Let’s start pushing out more medical professionals into the workforce to address that

shortage. Let’s tear down the barriers for foreign-trained doctors to practise here

in British Columbia. We have family doctors in this province seeing 2,000 to 3,000

patients each, running on fumes, while new medical graduates are stuck on the sidelines,

waiting for a bureaucratic green light. We need to recruit more physicians and incentivize

retention, certainly and especially in rural, remote and underserviced areas, which

this caucus largely represents across this province.

Even in the Comox Valley, which has grown significantly, our primary care capacity

hasn’t kept up, despite hard work from many, many groups to plug those gaps. Doctors

are retiring faster than we’re replacing them. We’re going to be losing another one

in July. Some 40 percent of GPs across this province are set to retire in the next

four years. I’ll say that again: 40 percent, two in five GPs, will be gone from the

workforce in the next five years.

Instead of solving that, instead of addressing the real issues, we see Bill 11. In

essence, it says: “Don’t worry about seeing a doctor. You can’t get one anyway; just

stay home.” This is a quiet admission that this government can’t deliver on its health

care mandate.

So they’re rewriting the rules to make it look like they’re keeping up. Lower the

demand, hide the shortage, and hope nobody notices. Move the goal line a little bit

closer, and take the victory lap anyway.

But people are noticing. They notice when they have to line up at 6 a.m. for a walk-in

appointment. They notice when their rural ER is closed three nights a week. We’re

not fixing health care with Bill 11; we’re masking a crisis.

British Columbians deserve much better than this. They deserve care when they’re sick,

they deserve a doctor they can trust and access, and they deserve a government that’s

willing to fix the problem, not patch over it with band-aids.

Do I support this legislation? The unfortunate reality is that it’s absolutely impossible

not to. This government has put British Columbia so far behind on health care that

the only solution to deliver health care is to lower expectations, throttle availability

and services and hope for the best. Bill 11 is the undiagnosed symptom of a far bigger

infection — likely because it couldn’t get a sick note, or perhaps it didn’t get diagnosed

early enough because it didn’t have to see the doctor first.

I will stand up and vote aye when the time comes, because we don’t have a choice.

This government doesn’t have a choice, in fact, because this government hasn’t left

us a choice. I don’t want to further burden doctors that are already stretched to

the ragged limits and considering walking away from their calling. We know that if

asked, doctors want to see these patients and would be happy to write the notes, to

treat their symptoms and to deliver help.

We’ve taken that off the table in this province, because this government has broken

the system, and now band-aids like Bill 11 are all this government has left.

Nina Krieger : I seek leave to make an introduction.

Leave granted.

Introductions by Members

Nina Krieger : I would like to introduce a group of students from École St-Sacrement, Blessed Sacrament

School, in Victoria.

[3:00 p.m.]

These are grades 4 and 5 students, as well as their teacher, Terry Brennan, and parents

who are visiting us today.

I’d like the House to please make them feel very welcome at this time.

Deputy Speaker : Indeed, welcome to everybody joining us in the chamber today.

Debate Continued

Rohini Arora : I rise to speak in complete support of Bill 11 today, the Employment Standards Amendment

Act. I’m thankful this bill is before us and that I get the opportunity to share my

support for it.

I’m grateful to the Minister of Labour for keeping our promise to workers who, when

sick, will now have the ability to stay home and rest when they need to, not run around

on the day they are supposed to be resting, trying to get a hold of a sick note, which

is not only expensive but adds unnecessary stress.

It’s important to understand why we’re introducing this legislation. I heard the member

speaking before me talk about the issue and the challenge with doctors, and the reality

is…. Also, I should say, calling it a band-aid solution — I guess, pun intended —

is interesting to me, because we have to meet the challenges of the moment while we

work to address the issues systemically.

We also know that there are ongoing administrative burdens and that these have been

a concern for many health care providers in B.C. In fact, I think the member before

me said that it sounds good on paper. Well, we met with the College of Family Physicians

today.

I spoke to Dr. Johnny Chang, who is from Creston, and one of the first things he mentioned

to me is that workers are being forced to get return-to-work notes. Here we are talking

about sick notes, but this is a doctor who is concerned about another piece and, by

the way, expressed his deep gratitude and support for this bill.

I would like to also mention that in Burnaby, there are three primary care networks

supporting team-based health care, as well as a brand new Burnaby urgent and primary

care centre. This work is being done across the province. The list is incredibly long,

but I’m going to, of course, speak to my riding and to the city of the folks that

I represent.

I want to address a continuous comment I heard yesterday, as well as today, that leave

should be legitimate and honest. I really want to ask the members to consider: is

that somehow not an option now? For people who want to take advantage, as the other

side keeps saying…. He also admitted himself that most people are honest; most people

don’t take advantage of the system. As a worker from the labour movement, although

I am elected here, I know firsthand that people are very hard-working, they are very

honest, and they take leave or short-term absences when they need it.

It’s also important to note that there was another comment made about there not being

any doctors. Well, that’s really interesting because in 2024, over 250,000 people

were matched with a doctor under this government.

The Canadian Medical Association estimates that in 2024, doctors wrote approximately

1.6 million sick notes. That’s a lot of appointments and a lot of time taken away

from people who may truly actually need an appointment at that very moment — not to

force a sick worker to have to go and line up at a walk-in clinic or make an appointment

with their family doctor to be able to get that sick note.

There’s another piece that I think is so common sense, and I’m not sure why we’re

missing this. Of course, with enabling legislation such as Bill 11, there will be

regulatory measures that will need to be ironed out. That is standard practice. That’s

not something new, and that’s not something different.

Of course, we’re going to talk to folks, consult with everyone involved, all of the

interest holders that would be impacted, about what constitutes a short-term leave.

For many of us, we know that it’s usually between three to five sick days, and I can

tell you from my own collective bargaining agreement.

[3:05 p.m.]

This legislation is going to apply to all employers under the B.C. Employment Standards

Act in the public and private sector. This is really important because the private

sector is the area where most folks don’t have a collective bargaining agreement.

If I remember correctly, the last time I checked the statistics, I think only 12 percent

of workers within the private sector are unionized. That’s a pretty low number.

Whereas

in the public sector, it’s much higher. That means that those people have those protections

that they need.

Sick notes are not only costly, this demand from an employer means that much of their

time is not spent resting and recuperating but is spent under stress — first, booking

an appointment with their family doctor or, as I mentioned, going to a walk-in clinic.

But that also means that they stand in line and put others at risk.

That’s not to mention: how are they getting there? If they’re privileged and they

have access to a vehicle, that’s wonderful. They can keep themselves isolated. For

most people…. This particular amendment act speaks to the most vulnerable workers,

those who use transit as their main method of transportation, those who often work

in the private sector and don’t have a collective bargaining agreement to outline

the process for a short-term absence or a sick leave.

For many workers who do have a collective bargaining agreement in the public sector,

they have good sick leave and absence provisions that already don’t require a doctor’s

note — as I mentioned, often between three and five days. And they have short-term

disability and long-term disability provisions.

For example, my mom worked as a care aide her entire life, proud member of the Hospital

Employees Union — shout-out HEU — and has had access to sick leave and short-term

absences for a very long time. She hasn’t required a doctor’s note for short-term

sickness in many years.

For the worker who is not protected by a CBA and doesn’t have a union to support them,

they are left to fulfil any and all requests of the employer. Many times the requests,

particularly for a doctor’s note, unfairly impact their healing process, whether it

be due to illness or injury.

Prior to being elected, I was the director of organizing and campaigns at the B.C.

Federation of Labour. I remember countless workers reaching out to me about doctors

notes. These were not organized workers; these were unorganized workers. They just

needed support and help, so they came to us to find out what their options were.

One worker shared a particularly egregious story with me. He worked in a warehouse

where they made furniture, and he got injured really badly one day. Something had

happened to his hand as well as his shoulder. He went to the hospital, and he was

told that he had to rest until he got better. Normal — we all know that.

The hospital had provided him with a note, some paperwork. Unfortunately, within 24

hours, the employer said: “Get a doctor’s note.” The wild thing about that is the

manager who asked for that doctor’s note was on site and actually saw the injury take

place. Make that make sense.

By the way, that hospital document was free. That was just documentation. But forcing

that worker to then go and get a doctor’s note meant that not only did he not get

to rest, but he had to also go and get that doctor’s note, which cost about $40.

The manager who made the request tried to force the worker back to work. The worker

was so injured but had no choice because he had to pay the bills, so he went back

to work. But the way that it works, in that warehouse in particular, is you’re measured

by speed. You’re supposed to complete furniture sets at a certain pace. He wasn’t

able to keep up, of course. He had an injury. He got fired.

What did that doctor’s note do for him, other than add stress and force him to go

and get a doctor’s note when he was already in pain and injured? Then he was forced

back to work anyway, and because he couldn’t keep up, he was fired.

These are real stories of real workers in this province, people that I’ve spoken to

firsthand.

[3:10 p.m.]

I remember the worker telling me: “I felt punished for getting injured in the workplace,

and I felt punished to go and get a doctor’s note.” It was like a punishment.

It reminds me about what Dr. Johnny Chang said earlier this morning: “Get a return-to-work

letter.” He said that the patient had had a flu and was better for one week already

and just wanted to return to work, and the employer wouldn’t let him. Another punishment

simply for even taking sick leave when this worker was obviously sick and had the

flu.

It’s really rich when I hear the other side say: “Well, you know, of course an employer

is going to say yes and let them stay home when they’re sick.” That’s just not true.

That’s why government does the work that it does, because we have to support workers

that need it. We’re here for the most vulnerable workers, the workers that slip through

the cracks. That’s our job.

There’s another reality. There are members on that side that say that they’re union

members, but when it comes down to it, I’ve seen the focus be so much more on the

employer and not the most vulnerable person in that power dynamic. One can fire; the

other can’t. I mean, it’s not rocket science.

We want fairness for both parties, of course, the employer and the workers, and we

advocate for it. As union members, we have been blessed with many employers understanding

the need to not worry about a doctor’s note, which is why the language in Bill 11

is worked into many of our collective agreements already, including mine.

See, I’m a proud Steelworker, and a real Steelworker does not associate with CLAC.

I encourage the members on the other side to read existing collective agreements from

Steel — use my union as an example — and see what the sick leave provisions are and

what short-term absences look like. They’re already worked in. We’re just bringing

the standard up. That’s the reality. This bill is bringing the standard in line for

all workers with what is already standard practice for union members.

Yesterday the member mentioned the health care system, and yes, we should absolutely

talk about that. I heard that many times from the member across from me before I spoke.

Let’s talk about the pharmacists who are stepping in to support patients with basic

testing for strep, RSV, influenza and COVID.

Let’s talk about the doctors who are burned-out and have been working in overdrive

because of a global pandemic, and they haven’t had time to rest three years later.

It is very busy. The doctors I met with today, they are in complete support of Bill

Let’s talk about the aging population that deserves dignity and health care and support

and the many youth who face complex issues.

Is it fair to take up a doctor’s time with an appointment in the name of a doctor’s

note for short-term sickness? Make that make sense.

To conclude, I’d like to share my heartfelt gratitude to this government for standing

up for worker rights and to the Minister of Labour for her work to advance and fulfil

this important piece of fairness for the most vulnerable workers.

I urge all members to support Bill 11. I know I will.

Anna Kindy : Bill 11, the Employment Standards Amendment Act, 2025. This bill proposes to eliminate

the need for a sick note when an employee needs to leave for medical reasons. It says

that it frees up time for our health care practitioners by cutting down on paperwork.

When I’m looking at this bill, superficially, it makes sense. Doctors are busy, and

a doctor’s note is often for what seems to be just the flu. It’s a waste of time for

both the doctor and the patient. But like everything else, every bill, you have to

look a little bit deeper and what can sometimes be unintended consequences. The reason

we might have unintended consequences is that we have a health care crisis in our

midst.

[3:15 p.m.]

I’m just going to give context a little bit. When you’re old, and you’ve been a practising

physician for many years, you’ve got memories of what it used to be like. What it

used to be like…. I have practised in different provinces, but in B.C. for most of

my career, spending 38 years. When I settled down, finally, in Campbell River, not

only were 20 percent of the houses for sale, super cheap, but there were too many

family doctors. They were competing against each other.

What did that do? The level of competence, in a sense, came up, because that’s what

happens. You’re trying to give your best to every patient.

You saw walk-in clinics open up. The reason walk-in clinics opened up was because

doctors were competing against each other: “Let’s extend our hours. Let’s provide

better service.”

Amazingly, if you didn’t like your doctor, you could just switch. If you didn’t like

the second one, you could switch again until you found one that was compatible with

you.

It was a pleasure, as well, to practise.

I’ll just go back to the doctor’s note, because it’s an important thing to talk about

when we’re talking about this bill. Occasionally, people would come in for a doctor’s

note. It was a way of sort of connecting with the patient. Sometimes it was just the

flu, but sometimes it was something a little bit more serious.

Coming back to practising…. Sometimes when people came in with a doctor’s note, it

was something serious. I would just pick up the phone and call the specialists, if

they were in town. We had quite a few specialists, different specialties like orthopedics,

plastic surgery, urology a few or 50 kilometres away, internal medicine. They would

answer the phone, and that patient would be seen shortly thereafter. If that patient

was sick enough to be admitted, there was a bed waiting. Not a problem.

I kind of always want to give context, because sometimes something becomes a new normal,

and this is not normal, what we’re going through right now. The reason we’re actually

bringing this bill forward is because there’s a health care crisis, and doctors are

overworked, and we’re trying to free up time. I think it’s important to remember that.

When we’re talking about a solution to this crisis, unfortunately…. There needs to

be short-term and long-term planning. There’s been some improvement with bringing

in some doctors, but when you look at the net connection, meaning people being attached

to primary care providers, the net probably isn’t that high because people are still

retiring. People are still losing their family doctor. So it would be interesting

to talk…. Rather than how many have come in, how many are actually attached?

The other thing, as well, is we have to remember that even the family doctors that

we have now…. The doctor that used to work 80 hours a week and do it all is becoming

a rarer breed for, potentially, the right reason. People want to have a life, you

know, physicians as well. So they tend to sometimes work less hours because they have

families, or they specialize and do just emergency, or sometimes people specialize

in addiction medicine, or they even do just dermatology.

The doctor that used to do it all isn’t as common. We have to remember that as well.

As many as we bring some in, some will specialize in something different. They won’t

be providing primary care.

The other thing that’s happening is…. Even if you’re attached and you need a doctor’s

note, if you phone your doctor, well, your doctor often is busy, and you can’t get

seen for a couple weeks unless it’s a real emergency. Attachment doesn’t guarantee

a note.

What do you do when you don’t have a family doctor? Right now you can always go to

emergency, right? We’ve all heard of what happens in emergency with a 12-, 14-, 18-hour

wait.

[3:20 p.m.]

If you’re sitting at home going, “I need a doctor’s note; I’m not feeling very well,”

are you going to take the time? That’s the question, right? Unfortunately, sometimes

a flu is not just a flu. Sometimes a flu is not what it seems.

These are just a few examples I’m going to give. These examples are not to scare people.

They’re quite rare, but they’ve happened.

Somebody who, for example, is a construction worker has a history of gout, and his

toe gets all inflamed and red. Well, sometimes gout isn’t gout. Sometimes gout is

what’s called necrotizing fasciitis.

What is necrotizing fasciitis? Well, it’s flesh-eating disease, and that’s a medical

emergency. Because you didn’t go see your doctor for your swollen toe, by the time

you see your doctor, you need an amputation. Depending on how long you waited to go

see your doctor, you might get a toe amputated, or you might get a below knee amputation.

That’s how fast it progresses. A rare but real story.

Another example. This is an example close to home. Somebody who, for example, has

indigestion and really doesn’t feel well calls to work, and work says: “Stay home,

but we don’t need a note anymore.” Okay, great. You don’t have a family doctor. You

don’t want to go to emergency because you’ve got indigestion. You don’t want to bother

anybody. It doesn’t quite feel like indigestion, but you just don’t feel good.

Well, that indigestion could be pericarditis or angina. It can present as indigestion.

Is that common, in terms of presenting that way? It can. Like a previous member sometimes

said, sometimes people are tough, and they decide: “I can handle this at home.”

You worked out the night before. Again, you’re a worker. You’re really sore. You’re

allowed five sick days — five sick days you don’t need a note for. And because you’re

a construction worker, your shoulder is super sore and even your neck is sore. Well,

you could be having a heart attack, right? But you’re tough. You’re not going to go

see your doctor. You don’t need that note.

My point being…. I can go on and on. I will go on and on, because I want people to

kind of understand how important it is to connect with your doctor and to have that

in emergency right now, we’re diagnosing stage 4 cancers, because people couldn’t

go see their family doctor. They couldn’t access primary care. By the time they show

up in the emergency, they’ve got stage 4 cancer.

Neck stiffness could be a meningitis. You fell at work the day before, and you call

your employer, and you say: “Well, I’ve got a bit of a headache, and I think I’m starting

a flu because my nose is runny.” Well, it could be cerebrospinal fluid leaking. It

could be leaking from your brain down your nose. Rare? Yes, but possible.

Pink eye. Who hasn’t gotten pink eye? You don’t notice a little rash beside it. Well,

it’s shingles. Sometimes shingles around the eye can blind you. A bit of dizziness

could be a cerebellar stroke.

We all know about a cough that continues, right? Again, you don’t have a doctor. I

mean, I’ve seen members here coughing. We’re talking about MLAs that cannot find a

doctor in Victoria, and they’re coughing for two or three weeks. Well, two or three

weeks — maybe you’ve got a pneumonia.

Your sore throat is getting worse. You’re starting to have trouble swallowing. It

could be a peritonsillar abscess. That’s a medical emergency. Real story.

[3:25 p.m.]

Bad headache. Temporal arteritis. You could go blind.

My point with all this is that connection with your family doctor is important.

When I was practising, I have to say, we used to like to have people come in for their

flu, for the note they needed for work, because it was fast, and we got paid for it.

That’s the reality of it. But now doctors are so busy, over-the-top busy, so that

extra income means nothing to them. That extra income balanced that complex patient

you saw that took 45 minutes…. You get paid the same.

So that doctor’s note is great. Doctor’s note — compensate. Now no more, because they’re

so busy. They say: “Most of what we see….”

I want people to realize that all the kind of examples I gave are rare. But in a time

of medical crisis, when you’re actually, like I said, diagnosing cancer in emergency,

maybe it’s time to start looking at why.

I’ll probably be supporting this bill, because the family doctors are supporting this

bill. They need to free up time. But I want to support it with caution, because people

that have issues….

Someone mentioned mental health issues. If you’ve had some bad weeks at work and you’re

isolating and you decide to take a day off, but you’re actually pretty depressed,

that doctor’s note can maybe prevent something worse from happening.

I’m going to support it, but with caution. I think maybe when we re-address the health

care crisis and it improves, we should maybe revisit this bill.

Bruce Banman : I want to thank the good doctor from North Island for her very insightful words.

Now, she and I are a couple of rare individuals in this House that actually had the

privilege of being able to write a note for our patients to excuse them from work.

It is a privilege, and it’s an honour. I think when the good doctor speaks, that this

side, the opposite side of the House, should listen loud and clear.

I, too, will begrudgingly hold my nose and vote in favour of this particular bill,

Bill 11, the Employment Standards Amendment Act, which really, in my opinion, should

be called the health care failure act. This government has had eight years to fix

the problem, and sadly, the problem has not only not been fixed, but it’s actually

getting worse.

Members have heard me talk about my own family’s personal stories, one of which was

on the day I was sworn in. My wife tripped and actually fractured her arm and was

bounced between two emergency rooms in two different hospitals and spent over 12 hours

waiting to be seen. On about hour ten, she asked for a glass of water, and she told

me: “No, no, you go. I’m going to be fine. You go, get sworn in.”

I said: “No, I can come back any time and be sworn.” She said: “I am not having this.

You are going.” For those of you that know my wife, when she puts her foot down….

I may not do as you tell me, Mr. Speaker, I may put up a fight for that, but when

my wife puts her foot down, I do as I’m told.

Interjection.

[3:30 p.m.]

Bruce Banman : Well, I don’t know whether I’m smart, but I’ve got a good survival instinct, I’ll

tell you that.

It was so overworked, and this is how stressed the system is. At about hour ten, she

asked for a glass of water, and the response was: “Do we look like a restaurant to

you?”

Now, I don’t say that to embarrass those that are in the health care system. I say

that is a call of desperation, that you are so overworked and the system is that collapsed

that you would respond in that manner, because those that go into…. I know I have

health care professionals just having shivers go up and down their spine that one

of their own would say that, but those that are on the front lines can understand

it.

The fact that we are going to a note is

an act of desperation. Now, for those that

don’t understand medicine, I get it. For those that don’t understand health care,

those that have never had to go through the years of training, I understand how….

Going to the doctor for a note is an absolute pain in the bubkes. The doctors are

now so overworked with paperwork that they’re just saying: “Look, we’ve got…. Come

on, most of the time it’s like just a flu or a headache. We’ve got better things to

do with our time, because we cannot see…. There are about a million patients in British

Columbia that don’t even have a family doctor, and you’re making me do this stupid

note.”

However, if you were to ask them: say, in an ideal world, where you had the time to

limit how many patients and there were more than enough doctors to go around, would

you ever deny a patient a note? Because what if…? In Harrison’s medical textbook of

internal medicine, it talks about what’s called a differential diagnosis. What is

that? A differential diagnosis says you take the symptoms, you do a history of your

patient, and you say: could it be this, could it be that, could it be this? There

are multiple things that it could be.

We heard my colleague talk about a few items. Now, I’ve done a quick search of common

things. Most of the time, you’re going to have flu-like symptoms. Most of the time,

it’s exactly that — it’s the flu. The flu is also one of the number one killers, every

year. I just did a quick, sort of, thing on serious diseases.

[Interruption.]

Deputy Speaker : This might be a good time to remind people….

Bruce Banman : Clearly, I owe my own caucus a bottle, because Siri thinks I’m talking to her, and

that’s not good. We’re going to put that under there. Wow. Serious and Siri…. Also,

if you say Surrey, by the way, she’ll do the same thing.

Serious diseases with flu-like symptoms. The result of this bill, actually, I believe

is going to cost people their life, or serious injury. It’s going to be rare, but

we hear oftentimes: one death is too many; one life is important. I am just going

to read off a few serious diseases with flu-like symptoms.

Well, we went through COVID. If you don’t get early intervention with COVID, it can

permanently damage you or you can die from it. I mentioned the influenza itself. And

then there’s a bunch of them. There’s the avian influenza. We all remember the bird

flu, SARS, MERS.

[3:35 p.m.]

For those that like to go camping and exploring, there’s the hantavirus, which is

from rodent exposure. It starts off with a fever and a cough, and you get muscle aches.

You can have shortness of breath, and you pass it off.

We just recently heard of Gene Hackman’s wife, who died from hantavirus, and then

Gene Hackman himself, because he had dementia, died. That can be exposure to rodent

droppings. Around this building, they’re pretty common. There seemed to be much ado

about a cat that disappeared, but it was here to deal with the rodents.

A mosquito bite. Well, a mosquito bite could be dengue fever. Now, is that local here?

No, but we live in a world where everyone travels. Someone gets a simple mosquito

bite, and then they get dengue fever. It’s fever, flu-like symptoms, joint pain and

headaches.

Remember the Zika virus? If you’re a pregnant woman…. We’ve all seen the pictures

of babies that were born because of the Zika virus. For those that don’t know, they

see a bat on a lawn in the daylight. A kid goes up and touches the bat, or you go

to take the bat away from your child…. Or you even get into an attack with a raccoon.

That raccoon could have rabies. It’s also flu-like symptoms, fever, headaches and

muscle spasms.

You can actually be away on holidays. Actually, you don’t even have to be away on

holidays. It can happen right here in a restaurant. You’d go: “Jeez, you know, I just

don’t feel well, and I’ve got headaches.” Then you start to turn yellow. It’s actually

hepatitis A.

Here’s the problem with Dr. Google and self-diagnosing, which is what this note inevitably

is going to make people do, return to self-diagnosing themselves. It comes with a

risk.

Is it rare? Yes. But as I see some of the smiles on the other side, I would be careful

of that indignation and that moral high road that you’re on, because you will end

up damaging people and costing them lives because we do not have enough health care

professionals in this province right now to see people on a timely basis.

You know how I know that? My wife is one of them. She does not have a medical doctor.

Having to sit in an emergency room or a walk-in clinic to ask for a note…. Absolutely,

currently, it is an absolutely miserable experience to go through. But in the real

world, where they actually have health care figured out, where they do have access

to a medical doctor….

If you get these family doctors aside and say: “You know what? If you weren’t overworked,

would you be asking for this?” They would go: “No, I remember my training. I remember

the boredom of having to go through Harrison’s medical textbook. I was there.” It’s

a mistake, and it’s going to cost people lives, or they’re going to get injured. It’s

rare.

There’s a whole bunch more that I’ll go through. We’ve got hepatitis A, hepatitis

B, hepatitis C, pneumonia, Legionnaires’ disease, tuberculosis, leptospirosis, Lyme

disease, typhoid fever and Q fever. We’ve got Marburg virus disease and Ebola. We’ve

got, also, Rocky Mountain spotted fever. We have the plague. We have malaria. We have

toxoplasmosis. We have babesiosis. We have African type…. I won’t even go into that

one. Histoplasmosis, blastocystis, sepsis and meningitis.

[3:40 p.m.]

Meningitis. Meningitis starts off as a headache and fever-like thing, and it can happen.

You know what? I went out drinking with a bunch of friends. We passed the bottle around

the campfire, which happens on occasion. I think I’m just hungover. “No, you’re not.

You have meningitis and it can be fatal if it is not treated. It can be fatal.” Again,

is it rare? Yes.

But do you really want to be responsible for that because we can’t figure out how

to get enough frigging doctors for people in this province? Because this government

has had eight years to fix the problem and failed miserably at it?

You can have toxic shock syndrome.

Then actually one that’s personal to me is Kawasaki disease. My grandson, when he

was an infant, had Kawasaki disease. It presents very similar to measles, and had

my daughter not taken him in….

She went and saw a medical doctor on top of this, and he said: “Oh, it’s nothing.

Don’t worry about it.” She said, “No, there’s something wrong with my son,” and she

took him down to Children’s. Children’s said: “You are lucky that you brought him

in.”

One of the things with Kawasaki the syndrome, although rare, is aneurysms of the heart,

and they can be playing soccer and have a heart attack because they have an aneurysm

in their heart or other places.

That’s just fever. Flu-like symptoms.

Let’s go on to headaches. Headaches are a common thing. Everybody gets them. People

can get this sudden severe headache, and we call it thunderclap. It’s often described

as “the worst headache of my life.” Well, it’s a subarachnoid hemorrhage. And it can

be life changing and fatal. A simple visit to go get a note from a doctor in a timely

manner can save that person’s life.

There could be an intracranial hemorrhage, which is a sudden and severe headache.

That can also be severely debilitating.

Quite frankly, I listened to the nonsense on the other side about this being somehow

employers being evil and mean or whatever it was. And these simple visits to a doctor,

especially….

I’ve got to speak on behalf of being a male. We don’t get health care real well, most

of us. Go talk to our wives. Having to be sent in to get a medical note can generally

mean that the doctor will look at you and go, “Wait a minute, do your blood pressure

or do some other simple things,” which should happen in a normal doctor’s visit when

they are not pressed to the max.

This note, this amendment is not built on what the system should be. It is being pushed

through because the system is in a free fall. It is collapsing, and it is basically

what’s called triage, where we are just trying to deal with the most severe things

first.

But in an ideal world, there is no way this bill would ever be required. This is absolute

failure and free fall of our health care system. I would encourage the other side

of the House to listen to those of us that actually were able to write notes once

in a while for real, that have the ability to diagnose, and listen to what we’re trying

to tell you.

We will vote for this, but do not be proud on that side of the House that it has come

to this. Do not be proud, and don’t you dare do a victory lap, because this is not

a victory. This is a failure lap. It is a stopgap measure to try and stop the bleeding

of a system that is dying.

[3:45 p.m.]

Other things with a headache. Actually, it can be a stroke. You can get what’s called

a temporary ischemic attack, a TIA, where you get this…. It can present in many different

ways. You just don’t feel well, so you self-diagnose and then it disappears, and you

go, “Okay, I’m fine,” when in fact, that is a dire warning that you are most likely

going to have a stroke.

Other headaches that can present, as we heard, are tumours in the head, some of which

are cancerous, some of which are not. The result of not seeking early treatment can

be life-altering, if not causing death.

I mentioned meningitis. The other one you can have…. There are many, many vascular

problems that can cause that. There is also a thing called an aneurysm, which can

start to…. You think of it like a balloon in an artery where the balloon gets weak.

We all, as kids, have played with those long balloons, and it gets a bubble on it.

Well, that can pop and cause a stroke.

Sometimes there are signs and symptoms that a simple doctor’s note can go: “Wait a

minute, this is not a normal headache. This is something far more. I’m going to send

you off to get this imagery done or this test done.” It can save a person’s life.

It can stop them from having a stroke where they’re left debilitated in a chair or

unable to speak. It depends on where the stroke in the brain is. Sometimes the stroke

can cause a clot.

This is not a bill that should have ever come before this House. It saddens me that

it’s here. It saddens me that our health care system has come to this. It saddens

me that this side of the House has not been able to fix the problems that lie before

it. Are they difficult? Yes, they are.

You can wake up in the morning with a headache, Mr. Speaker. “Hey, you know what,

I’m going out drinking with the boys and woke up with a headache.” It’s actually not

a headache at all. It can actually be the signs of hypertension. It can actually be

the signs that you have high blood pressure.

The problem with high blood pressure is it’s like pumping a bunch of pressure through

a little pipe. That pipe can blow. It’s also a form of a stroke. It depends on where

the pipe bursts. If it happens to be an abdominal aneurysm, and it blows, well, you’ve

got about five seconds. A simple doctor’s note, in some cases, where you’ve got back

pain….

An abdominal aneurysm can often present itself as low back pain, because the aorta

goes down along the spine, and it pumps along the spine. You’re working, and you think:

“You know what? Hey, I just lifted that one piece of equipment I shouldn’t have, but

I’ll know better next time,” and it really isn’t. It’s actually a sign of what they

call a “triple-A,” an abdominal aortic aneurysm. It can end up bursting, as happened

to my friend Jean at his son’s birthday. He literally just fell over and expired.

There’s the potential that had that been caught, there’s intervention of surgery that

can actually fix that, and his life might have been saved. Is that going to happen

all the time? No, it’s not. As the previous speaker was just mentioning, these are

rare. But you add up all the rarities, this is where we get these tragedies where

they’re misdiagnosed.

[3:50 p.m.]

I know the other side of the House thinks it’s funny, because I can watch them laughing

and making fun as I’m talking about very real conditions that happen every day. I

think that this side of the House probably thinks that it’s some kind of a joke. What’s

a joke is that we have got to this point in this province where we’ve reached a point

where a note is required.

There are some other ones that can cause…. You can have a brain abscess as a headache.

You can have carbon monoxide poisoning, where you’re driving on a long drive in your

car, and you don’t know that you actually have carbon monoxide coming into the car.

Or you have carbon monoxide in your house from your furnace. Or you have gone out

camping and you’ve had something, and it wakes…. There are things that need to be

done that perhaps could help. Sadly, with carbon monoxide poisoning, it can often

result in actual death.

For those that are pregnant, it can be pre-eclampsia. Pre-eclampsia starts off with

a severe headache. You get some visual changes, and basically you get high blood pressure

and swelling as well. These are just a couple of symptoms that are common that an

employer would say: “Hey, you know what? I’d like a note.”

There was mention of a return-back-to-work note. Well, that’s really not part of this

bill. A return-to-work note actually is more to do with the bureaucracy of WorkSafe

and a few other things that have been put in place that employers are now forced to

do. Because if that employee hurts themselves at work as a result of that…. It really

wasn’t relevant to this bill, but I’m glad one of the members brought that up. It

is also some red tape that we perhaps should look at. The devil is always in the details.

One of the wisest individuals I ever had the privilege to work with was the former

city manager of the city of Abbotsford. His name was George Murray. George taught

me an important lesson. He said: “In your passion, your desire to fix a problem, the

devil is always in the details, and if you are not careful, you will create unintentional

consequences.”

The unintentional consequence of this particular bill, if it becomes the norm, will

be injuring people, putting them at risk, and then sometimes a death that is preventable

by going to a doctor to ask for a simple doctor’s note. Yes, it’s a pain in the butt.

Most of the time it’s just to check off a box. But there are times that it could save

a life.

I will vote in favour of this, but it saddens my heart that the health care system

of this province has reached a low of this kind that it requires this kind of intervention

to attempt to keep it going. Our health care system literally is on life support,

and this is a symptom of the problem of how sick our health care system is. It is

not an answer. It is a last-ditch effort to just try and keep the system moving in

any way, shape or form.

The citizens of this province deserve a hell of a lot better than what they have gotten

over the last eight years of inability to actually get to the root of the problem

and fix the problem.

[3:55 p.m.]

Citizens of this province deserve to see a health care doctor, they deserve to have

a family physician, and they deserve that that family physician have the time to be

able to write something as simple as a note that may potentially save their life.

Korky Neufeld : Well, here we are again, and the question that comes to my mind is: “Would Bill 11

be even necessary if we had enough doctors?” In other words, there’s no way a doctor

wants to see less of their patients.

I know I have a great doctor. I don’t see him often enough because I don’t go very

often, but when I do, and it might be for this or that or the next thing, he opens

my file up. He looks at it: “Oh, maybe we should check your blood pressure; maybe

we should check this.”

Across the aisle, we keep hearing a lot about the previous government. Well, it has

been eight long years to fix things. I think that eight years is getting kind of old.

Speaking to Bill 11, the Employment Standards Amendment Act, 2025, I rise today not

out of routine but actually out of deep concern, first of all, for the integrity of

our health care system, for the working people of British Columbia and for the future

we’re building with every piece of legislation that we pass in this House.

At first glance, Bill 11 may appear benign, even compassionate. The government presents

it as a practical fix, allowing workers to take short-term medical leave without requiring

a doctor’s note. However, by removing this requirement, we may inadvertently create

a system where employees can take advantage of leave without proper accountability,

leading to increased absenteeism and potential disruptions to the workplace. How can

we be sure that an employee’s absence is genuinely due to illness and not a tactic

to avoid worker responsibilities?

I heard the member across the aisle talk about unions and how the unions have put

a lot of things in place. But here’s the thing. Many, many British Columbians don’t

work for a union. I’ve talked to small and medium-sized businesses, and they are carrying

an extra burden with just the five days of sick leave that they’re requiring their

workers to have. Many of them now have to cut their workforce because of that. They

have to work longer hours because of that. It’s tough on small and medium-sized businesses

across this province.

On the surface, this bill seems reasonable. Who would argue that a sick individual

should be forced out of bed to obtain a piece of paper to justify their absence? Who

would argue that a doctor, who is already overwhelmed, should be burdened with unnecessary

paperwork? But that is the reason why we have this bill, because the system and the

doctors are overwhelmed. This bill, though, opens up Pandora’s box of uncertainties

that could have far-reaching consequences for both workers and employers alike.

But let’s not be fooled. This bill is not a gesture of compassion. It’s not a sign

of progress. It’s actually a concession of defeat. It’s not a solution. It’s a symptom

— a symptom of a health care system buckling under pressure. Doctors know it, and

that is why they have aligned themselves with this bill. It’s not because they want

it. They have no choice. A quiet admission of a much larger failure.

Bill 11 is not a sign of progress. It’s a signal of surrender. Why does this bill

even need to exist? Why must we even debate the necessity of waiving sick notes? Because

in the year 2025, in a province as wealthy and resourceful as ours, over one million

British Columbians — that’s one out of every five — do not have access to a doctor.

I have children who have no family doctor. They’re unattached from primary care. They’re

forced to scramble through a broken patchwork of clinics, of online services, of overburdened

emergency rooms.

[4:00 p.m.]

These are not just stats. These are people. They’re your children. They’re my children.

They’re your parents. They’re my parents. They’re your neighbours. They’re my neighbours.

They’re seniors in rural towns, young families in suburbs, workers in our cities,

navigating the broken maze of walk-in clinics, overburdened ERs and virtual platforms

that promise care but too often deliver delays.

In many ridings, in many communities, emergency rooms are shuttering overnight. Patients

are forced to drive many, many hours for just basic care. Clinics close early. Lineups

begin before dawn. People are being turned away at the doors, not because of lack

of need — there’s much need — but for lack of doctors. British Columbia has the longest

walk-in clinic wait times in Canada. It’s 93 minutes — that’s 1½ hours — according

to Medimap Canada, and a lot longer in Abbotsford, I can tell you.

I was the caregiver for my mom in the last ten years of her life. She passed away

in 2022. Her family doctor retired, and she was dumped into the health care system.

I navigated that system with her. I stood in lineups with her for hours, at 93 years

old, just to have the door locked because they’ve reached their quota or the doctor

wasn’t available. Then I’d put her in my car, and we’d drive to the ER, where we sat,

and we sat, and we sat. This is not a minor inconvenience. For many, it’s a health

crisis.

In the North, in the Interior, in our Indigenous and remote communities, those numbers

climb even higher. The barriers are even steeper, and the consequences are even more

severe. They push the two-week mark to see a doctor. Those fortunate enough to even

have a family physician are often left waiting weeks for an appointment. Can you imagine

waiting weeks to find out what’s wrong? If you’re sick today, you may be told: “Come

next Wednesday.” What good is a sick note when you can’t even find a doctor to see?

What is this government’s answer? What do they do? Instead of confronting the health

care crisis, they lower the bar. Instead of investing in access, they rewrite the

expectations. They offer this bill, a legislative workaround designed not to strengthen

our system but to