British Columbia Hansard — Wednesday, April 25, 2007

H0425pm-10

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Wednesday, April 25, 2007 Afternoon Sitting Volume 18, Number 10 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Iona V. Campagnolo, CM, OBC THIRD SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations .......................................................................................................... Hon.

John van Dongen Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ........................................................................................................ Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ................................................................................................................Hon.

Tom Christensen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining......................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Krueger Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon. Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General................................................................................................................................Hon.

John Les Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Regulatory Reform............................................ Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Minister of State for ActNow B.C. ............................................................................................................................................ Hon.

Gordon Hogg Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole.................................................................................................................................................

Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E. George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D.

Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H. James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ...................................................................................................................................................................Jo-Anne Kern Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Dan Arbic

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) .................................................................... Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)............................................................................. Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP).................................................................. Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)..........................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon.

Pat (L) .............................................................Prince George North Bennett, Bill (L) ........................................................................ East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ............................................................ Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L)................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).....................................Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP).....................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon.

Gordon (L) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)..............................................................Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ................................................. Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, David (NDP) ......................................... Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon.

Murray (L) .....................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)...........................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .......................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) ....................................................................... North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)............................................................Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ...................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) .........................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP).................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...............................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ..............................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ..............................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP).......................................................................Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................ Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) ..................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L).......................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) ............................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................ Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon.

Gordon (L).....................................................Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)........................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)...............................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP).......................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)..................................................

North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................... Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)......................................................................... Nanaimo Krueger, Hon. Kevin (L) .....................................Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)........................................................................

Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L)....................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L).............................................................. Peace River South Les, Hon. John (L)............................................................... Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP).................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L).......................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L).................................................West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .................................................. Peace River North Nuraney, John (L).............................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon. Wally, QC (L).......................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)...........................................................

Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ....................................................................................Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)...................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ............................................................. Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................ Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L).............................................................

Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L).......................................................................Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP)..................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ........................................................

Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP).........................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP)..................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ....................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) ....................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon.

Carole (L).....................................................Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) .................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L).......................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) ..................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)............................................ Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L)........................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) .................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)...................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman .......................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ...........................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North ...........................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon................................................................... John Nuraney Burquitlam.......................................................................................Harry Bloy Cariboo North..............................................................................

Bob Simpson Cariboo South..............................................................................Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ..................................................................Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas...................................................................... Hon. John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley........................................................................ Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville..............................................................Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith ................................................................. Doug Routley Delta North ...................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ............................................................................. Valerie Roddick East Kootenay................................................................................

Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin.........................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops.....................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson ............................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country.................................................................. Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ......................................................................

Sindi Hawkins Langley ...........................................................................................Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca .................................................................. John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................ Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..................................................... Michael Sather Nanaimo......................................................................................

Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville .....................................................................Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston .............................................................................Corky Evans New Westminster .................................................................. Chuck Puchmayr North Coast....................................................................................

Gary Coons North Island ...............................................................................Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour..........................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head ........................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon......................................................... Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside..............................................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Peace River North.......................................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South..................................................................... Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley .................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ............................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood.................................................................... Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...............................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George North.................................................................... Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson ............................................Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................ John Rustad Richmond Centre......................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East........................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston...........................................................................John Yap Saanich North and the Islands ............................................ Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South ........................................................................ David Cubberley Shuswap............................................................................Hon. George Abbott Skeena.......................................................................................... Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................... Hon.

Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers ................................................................Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton............................................................................... Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge.................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead ....................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley...........................................................................Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ............................................................Hon.

Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard..............................................................Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview .................................................Hon.

Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings .................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington.......................................................David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway ......................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara ........................................................... Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant........................................ Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena.........................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill...................................................................

Carole James Victoria-Hillside ...........................................................................Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary........................................................Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ........................................................Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet..................................................................................... Harry Lali

CONTENTS Wednesday, April 25, 2007 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... .............................................. 7121 Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ......................................... 7123 Human Rights Code (Mandatory Retirement Elimination) Amendment Act, 2007 (Bill 31) Attorney General Statutes Amendment Act, 2007 (Bill 33) Hon. W.

Oppal Pacific Coast University for Workplace Health Sciences Act (Bill Pr401) R. Cantelon Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ............. 7124 Komagata Maru mural H. Bains Rights of persons with disabilities R. Cantelon Vimy Ridge poem C. Puchmayr Cancer Society Daffodil Month S. Hawkins Bioheat M. Karagianis Retail business people B.

Bennett Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ......................................................... 7126 Allegations of partisan media activities by Liberal staff C. James Hon. G. Campbell L. Krog B. Ralston D. Chudnovsky Hon. W. Oppal M. Farnworth Conflict-of-interest concerns regarding lobbying activities of Ken Dobell J. Kwan Hon. G. Campbell M. Karagianis Government contracts to lobbyists H. Lali Hon. G.

Campbell Points of Privilege............................................................................................................ ........................................................ 7131 J. Kwan N. Simons Petitions...................................................................................................................... ............................................................... 7131 S. Fraser C. Trevena D.

Routley Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................... 7131 Estimates: Ministry of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities Hon. B. Penner S. Simpson R. Austin

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................... 7151 Estimates: Ministry of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources (continued) J. Horgan Hon. R. Neufeld G. Robertson B. Simpson

7121 WEDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 The House met at 1:35 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Prayers. Introductions by Members Hon. J. van Dongen: It gives me great pleasure to introduce a special group of visitors to the House today. In the gallery are the members of the Order of British Columbia Advisory Council. They have gathered in Victoria today to review this year's nominations, which have been made by members of both sides of the House. I understand there were 174 nominations. The Order of British Columbia Advisory Council is chaired by the Hon. Lance Fi nch, Chief Justice of the Court of Appeal for B.C.

Joining the Chief Justice and yourself, Mr. Speaker, on the advisory council are Brenda Binnie, president of the Union of B.C. Munici- palities; Dr. Michael Stevenson, president of Simon Fraser University; Virginia Greene, deputy minister of the Intergovernmental Relati ons Secretariat; and two members of the order, Dr. Wallace Bakfu Chung of Vancouver and Janet Nita Connolly of Atlin. I ask the House to please make them all very welcome. H.

Bains: It gives me a great deal of pleasure to introduce someone who is a very special friend of mine, one of the persons who works hard so that I'm here in this House — the national director of the Steel- workers, Ken Neumann. Please join me, the entire House here, to give him a warm welcome. Hon. G. Campbell: I am pleased today to be able to introduce 74 visitors from Our Lady of Perpetual Help School in my constituency, Vancouver–Point Grey. They are grade 5 students travelling with some parents and their teachers Mr. Venegas, Ms. Stefanon and Ms. Schmidt.

They're here today to experience the history of these buildings, to learn more about the business of gov- ernment and parliamentary tradition and, evidently, to take pictures and notes and report back. So everyone is properly warned. I hope we'll make them welcome. D. Chudnovsky: Today in the gallery are two of my oldest and dearest friends, Bob Rosen and Eva Sherell. I had a wonderful lunch with them today, and I hope that you'll join me in welcoming them to the Legislature. Hon. W. Oppal: In the House this afternoon is a man who's done a tremendous amount of work in the field of human rights.

He's now a member of the multi- cultural advisory committee council. He's a resident of Richmond — Randy Sandhu. I ask that the House make him feel welcome. C. Puchmayr: I have four guests in the gallery to- day. I have the mayor of New Westminster, Wayne Wright, with us today. He'll be meeting with the Solici- tor General and me later today. I also have Evelyn Benson and Bonnie Peterson , and I have Don Benson, who is the Poet Laureate emeritus for New Westmin- ster. He is also getting an award today for community achievement. Please make them all extremely welcome. Hon. O.

Ilich: Today it is also my pleasure to introduce somebody else who is getting a community achievement award. Her name is Lois Carson Boyce. She has been a volunteer in my commu nity of Richmond — and also from the other member from Richmond's community — for more than 40 years. She's joined today by Carol Boyce Nelson, Mary Carson Ford, Rose Ella Johnson, Joyce Johnston and James, Arlene, Sylvia and David Sinclair. Would the House please welcome them. R. Chouhan: I would like to introduce Stephanie Wiebe, a journalism student at Ryerson. She's the sister of Sarah Wiebe, an intern researcher for the NDP cau- cus.

She's also with her roommate, Melissa Musso. Please welcome them. [1340] D. MacKay: We've been here since February, and I notice in the gallery today that I actually have two visi- tors from my riding. I have one from Dease Lake that I will let the Minister of Community Services introduce. I would like at this time to introduce a school teacher from school district 54 who taught both my children when they went through school. I suspect he's proba- bly teaching my granddaughter. Ian Malcomson is in the House today, and I'd ask the House to please make him welcome. Hon. I.

Chong: It's my pleasure to introduce several people who are joining us in the House this afternoon. Firstly, Dr. Patricia Baird is with us. She's an interna- tionally recognized geneticist who, for more than a year, served as chair of the Premier's Council on Aging and Seniors Issues. Along with 17 other members of the council, Dr. Baird consulted with hundreds of Brit- ish Columbians, ultimately producing the Aging Well in B.C. report — a report that will be very useful as we plan and prepare for an aging population, when we will see one in four British Columbians being over the age of 65. Joining Dr.

Baird in the gallery is Silas Brownsey from the Ministry of Commu nity Services, who helped provide support to the council and who continues to coordinate government's re sponse to those recommen- dations. As well, a very special constituent of the member for Bulkley Valley–Stikine is here, Ms. Margery Loverin from Dease Lake, an employee with the Minis- try of Children and Family Development who decided to continue working in the B.C. public service despite reaching the age of retirement. She is joined by two of her relatives from Victoria, Pat and Gary Elander.

I would ask all members of the House to please make them all very welcome.

7122 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 S. Fraser: It's a great pleasure today to introduce two friends and constituen ts, Henry Nedergard and Wolfgang Zimmerman. Henry is a strong advocate for the National Institute of Disability Management and Research, and Wolfgang is th e executive director of the same. They're here, hopefully , for an important hurdle that's to be overcome today in a step in the creation of the Pacific Coast Univer sity of Workplace Health Sciences. Would you please help me make them feel very welcome. Hon. R.

Thorpe: I'd like to introduce Steve Tuck, a constituent who is a recipient of the British Columbia Community Achievement Award, which will be awarded later today at Government House. Accompa- nying Steve today is his wife Teresa and their very good friends, Valerie and George Solomonides. Would the House please make them feel very welcome. G. Coons: I also would like to acknowledge a re- cipient of the Community Achievement Awards, Edna Mason, for outstanding achievement in education in her community of Klemtu. Please make her welcome. R.

Cantelon: Also with us in the House today, I'd like you to welcome Ken Neumann, the national director of the United Steelworkers union and board member of NIDMAR; Lee Coonfer, the director of public relations for Canfor; Brian Payne, who is co-chair of NIDMAR and former president of the CEP union of Canada; Valerie Royle, president and CEO of the Yukon Workers Compensation Health and Safety Board and board member of NIDMAR; Tricia Janzen, national director of human rights practices; Bonita Thompson, legal counsel with Singleton Urquhart; Roger Stanyer, member of the B.C.

Competition Council; Gillian Trumper, former MLA for Alberni-Qualicum; Jim Chutka, the executive assistant to MP for Nanaimo-Alberni James Lunney; and Gerard Janssen, former MLA for Alberni-Qualicum. Please give them a warm welcome. D. Cubberley: Joining us in the gallery today are 24 grades 4 and 6 students along with their parents from Pacific Christian School, and they're in the company of Ms. Houston, who is their teacher. Will the House please join me in making them welcome. S. Hawkins: On behalf of Mr.

Speaker, I'm pleased to welcome and introduce 18 teachers from across Brit- ish Columbia who are participating in the Legislative Assembly's fourth B.C. Teachers Institute on Parlia- mentary Democracy. They will be with us for the re- mainder of the week, expanding their knowledge of both our parliamentary and political systems. They are joined by three of their peers who are acting as facilita- tors.

I trust many of you will have the opportunity to meet them during their time here at the institute. [1345] Accompanying them is Becca Kenna-Schenk, Senate civic education program from the Washington State Legislature. She's here to learn from her neighbours from the north how to offer an educational opportunity to their teachers. I'd ask the members to make them very welcome. Also, this afternoon we ha ve three guests from the Alberta Legislative Assembly. We are joined by Dr.

David McNeil, who is the Clerk of the Alberta Legisla- ture; as well as Miss Rhonda Sorensen, who is the manager of communication services; and Miss Val Rutherford, manager of planning and development. They will be joined tomorrow by another colleague, Corrine Dacyshyn, who is a Committee Clerk. The group is here in Victoria to examine British Columbia's parliamentary committee system. I would ask the House make them feel very welcome. K. Conroy: I, too, would like to welcome some con- stituents who have travelled all the way from West Kootenay–Boundary.

I don't get many of them, so it's a great pleasure to welcome Ian and Margaret Davidson. J. McIntyre: I'm pleased to say that my former business partner, my very good friend and a Canucks fan extraordinaire, Evi Mustel , who is the president of Mustel Group, is in the gallery today. I'd like the House make her feel very welcome. J. Nuraney: It's a real privilege today to introduce to the House George McLean, a veteran of the war, freeman of the city of Burnaby, with 50 years of com- munity service to our communities in Burnaby.

He continues to serve and is a very active Rotarian and a member of the Crime Stoppers right now. He's here to receive his Community Achievement Award and is accompanied by his family — his two daughters and his sons — and a friend, Allen. May the House please make him feel very welcome. J. Yap: I'm delighted today to introduce two visitors in the public gallery. These two gentlemen are mem- bers of the executive of the Canadian Bar Association of British Columbia. Frits Verhoeven is the president this year. He's also a constituent of mine from the rid- ing of Richmond-Steveston.

With him is the vice- president, Ken Walton. Would the House please make them very welcome. D. Routley: A constituent of mine, Brian Payne, retired president of the CEP, is with us. I'd ask the House to help me make him welcome. B. Bennett: It's my great pleasure to introduce a fellow from Cranbrook who is in the gallery some- where. His name is Garry Anderson. Garry started the Canadian Museum of Railway Travel. Cranbrook is a railway town. The railway came in there in 1898. Garry started the museum in 1977 with one car. It's now an internationally acclaimed museum. Garry is being honoured tonight with the B.C.

Achievement Award. I found out today, actually, that Garry Anderson has also been awarded, as of today, the National Achievement Award from Heritage Can-

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7123 ada for the restoration at Royal Alexandria Hall, which is a wonderful meeting plac e as part of his museum. Please help me welcome to the House one of B.C.'s real heritage stars, Garry Anderson. R. Hawes: In the gallery today are Jim and Terry Taylor. Jim is a school teacher in Mission and very much an environmentalist, here to receive a well- deserved Community Achievement Award, particu- larly for his work in introducing kids to how we should be looking after our environment.

With Jim and Terry is His Worship Mayor James Atebe of Mission, who has come to watch and accom- pany Jim getting his award and to honour Jim's great achievement in our community. Could the House make them all feel very welcome. S. Hawkins: Also in the gallery today is someone who is a tireless advocate in the fight against cancer. Barbara Kaminsky, who has been the CEO of the Ca- nadian Cancer Society, B.C. and Yukon division, for the l a s t 1 2 y e a r s , i s v i s i t i n g t h e H o u s e . O n b e h a l f o f t h e House, I would like to welcome her and thank her for her efforts. [1350] Hon. G.

Abbott: I also would like to welcome Barbara Kaminsky to the House and to note that joining Barbara today is her mother Mary Mysko; her sister Phyllis Lewis; Clair Buckley, a former board chair of the Canadian Can- cer Society — B.C. and Yukon Division; and Catherine Richardson, director of human resources at the Canadian Cancer Society — B.C. and Yukon Division. I'd like to join with the member and all members of the House in welcoming thes e guests and saluting the wonderful work that's done for us each and every day by the Canadian Cancer Society.

Introduction and First Reading of Bills HUMAN RIGHTS CODE (MANDATORY RETIREMENT ELIMINATION) AMENDMENT ACT, 2007 Hon. W. Oppal presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Gover nor: a bill intituled Hu- man Rights Code (Mandatory Retirement Elimination) Amendment Act, 2007. Hon. W. Oppal: I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. W. Oppal: I'm pleased to introduce Bill 31, the Human Rights Code (Mandatory Retirement Elimina- tion) Amendment Act, 2007.

Bill 31 will eliminate the ability to impose mandatory retirement in British Columbia as of January 1, 2008, in all sectors and in all workplaces. In December 2006 the Pr emier's Council on Aging and Seniors Issues recomme nded amendments to the Human Rights Code to recognize human rights and eliminate the ability to impose mandatory retirement. The council also recommended that the Human Rights Code protect against age discrimination in the provi- sion of accommodation, in the provision of services and facilities normally available to the public. Bill 31 will make these amendments to the Human Rights Code.

In addition to the work of the Premier's council, the development of these amendments has also benefited from the views of private an d public sector employers and employees and views co nveyed in many letters received from individuals fr om all over the province. The council identified the Human Rights Code amend- ments as the key to its vision of British Columbia as a province where older people can remain involved and interact with others in their communities, fulfilling their roles that are respected and valued. Mandatory retirement is a policy of the past, not of the future.

The council is to be commended for its vision, and I know it's a vision that is shared by all British Columbi- ans. Bill 31 is an important step towards its achievement. I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 31, Human Rights Code (Mandatory Retire- ment Elimination) Amendm ent Act, 2007, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. ATTORNEY GENERAL STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2007 Hon. W.

Oppal presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Gover nor: a bill intituled At- torney General Statutes Amendment Act, 2007. Hon. W. Oppal: I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. W. Oppal: Regrettably, this bill isn't as exciting as the last one. It's Bill 33, Attorney General Statutes Amendment Act, 2007. It's guaranteed to cure insomnia. [1355] This bill amends a number of statutes under the mandate of the Ministry of the Attorney General. The amendments to improve efficiency and access to justice are made to a number of statutes.

They include the Administrative Tribunals Act, Court of Appeal Act, Evidence Act, Legal Profession Act, Legal Services So- ciety Act, Offence Act, Provincial Court Act and Su- preme Court Act. In addition, changes to the Family Maintenance Enforcement Act and the Fa mily Relations Act will serve to improve efficiency and strengthen child sup-

7124 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 port amendments in British Columbia. These amend- ments will ensure that children receive financial sup- port they're entitled to from both parents. Finally, Bill 33 contains validations, confirmations and repeals as well as consequential and related amendments to keep the stat utes up to date and to provide certainty. This in cludes amendments to the following acts: the

Interpretation Act, the obsolete pro- visions repeal act and the Statute Revision Act. I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 33, Attorney General Statutes Amendment Act, 2007, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. PACIFIC COAST UNIVERSITY FOR WORKPLACE HEALTH SCIENCES ACT R. Cantelon presented a bill intituled Pacific Coast University for Workplace Health Sciences Act. R.

Cantelon: I move that Bill Pr401, 2007, entitled Pacific Coast University for Workplace Health Sciences Act, be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. R. Cantelon: It is with pleasure that I act as sponsor of this bill to create a new private post-secondary institu- tion, the Pacific Coast University for Workplace Health Sciences, in British Columbia. This institution will be a worldwide centre of excellence specializing in research and education in occupational health and safety, disabil- ity management and rehabilitation in our province.

The proponent of this bill , the National Institute of Disability Management and Research, wishes to estab- lish this institution to promote research and higher education, safe workplace practices, and methods and programs for disability management and rehabilitation of injured workers. This is an important and worthy goal. In Canada approximately 24,000 permanen t disabilities occur an- nually. The cost of the en tire Canadian workers com- pensation system in 2005 was in excess of $7 billion. But it is first a social cause, Mr. Speaker.

It's an unfor- tunate fact that workers who are injured on the job who fail to be rehabilitated and reintegrated into the workplace within the first year…. Ninety percent of such people never re-enter the workplace. This private bill, if passed, will continue the society incorporated as the Pacific Coast Education Society for Workplace Health Sciences as a not-for-profit society. Subject to receiving approval of the Degree Quality Assessment Board, the university will be eligible to grant degrees in its own right and name and to award certificates and diplomas.

This bill will set up the structure, authority, rights and obligations of the university and establish an in- ternational research advisory council to advise the uni- versity's board or academic council on research re- quired to address critical issues and to facilitate inter- national cooperation, collab oration and partnership on this issue. This bill has been reviewed by both the Ministry of Advanced Education and the Ministry of Finance. I sup- port this bill, and I ask that all members of this House also support the worthy objectives of this new bill.

I'd like to acknowledge the support and commitment from the member opposite from Alberni-Qualicum in helping this to come to pass today. I move that the bill be referred to the Select Stand- ing Committee on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Con- duct, Standing Orders and Private Bills. Bill Pr401, Pacific Coast University for Workplace Health Sciences Act, introd uced, read a first time and referred to the Select Standing Committee on Parlia- mentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Standing Orders and Private Bills. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) KOMAGATA MARU MURAL H. Bains: I want to congratulate the Progressive Intercultural Community Services Society in Surrey for their contribution to our community, especially their efforts to remind us of the importance of the struggles and values of the passengers of the Komagata Maru. [1400] Charan Gill and PICS commissioned Jarnail Singh, a prominent artist, to paint a life-sized mural on the side of the PICS complex in Surrey. This mural was painted from a photo taken of the passengers on the Komagata Maru some 93 years ago. I'm especially proud of this mural for the message it instils in all of us.

In my view, it lets us cherish the courage of the passengers of the Komagata Maru and honours their progressive thinking, their bravery and their valour to challenge the laws of the day in the name of justice. These people put their lives on the line for their beliefs and to stand up for what was right. This mural should serve as a reminder to all of us and to the coming generation s that injustices should not be tolerated at any time. Whether they are societal or legislative injustices, we need people to understand that it is their right to oppose things that are not just.

I stand before you today with great pride that they left us with a country to live where there's established acceptance for all faiths, customs and beliefs, where we enjoy free speech and democracy. Please join me in honouring all of those people and organizations who stood up against injustices and thank them for their courage, bravery and compassion towards our human- ity. It was their work and vision that laid the founda- tion to build a society that strives for social and economic justice for all and where we find unity in diversity.

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7125 RIGHTS OF PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES R. Cantelon: Discrimination against people with disability takes many forms. I think we're most familiar with access and public access to buildings, but there are more subtle and insidious ways that put up mental barriers for people with disabilities. I had a conversation with a recently disabled worker, and he was putting a very brave face on things. He was an athletic young man who had been a successful manager of a retail store. But then some- thing happened.

His boss said: "Well, now you'll be co- manager of the store." So what does that say to him? Perhaps he's something less than what he used to be, less of a man than he used to be, and you could see the pain and anguish in his face. This is a common thing right across Canada and right across the world. On March 20, 2007, the United Nations addressed this with a convention on the rights of persons with disabilities.

The purpose of the present convention is to promote, protect and ensure the full and equal enjoyment of all human rights and funda- mental freedoms by all persons with disabilities and to promote respect for their inherent dignity. Persons with disabilities include those who have long-term mental, physical, intellectual or sensory im- pairments which, in interaction with various barriers, may hinder their full and effective participation in so- ciety on an equal basis with others. This convention was signed, and Canada was a signatory at the introduction in March — one of 85 countries.

I know this is a theme and a philosophy that everybody on both sides of this House can embrace and endorse and encourage. VIMY RIDGE POEM C. Puchmayr: This was written by New Westmin- ster's Poet Laureate, Don Benson, who is receiving an award today. It's Canada's Unknown Soldier. He was a young Canadian who died at Vimy Ridge. Did he come from Fort St. John or Gibsons Landing? Did he grow up in Victoria, or up near Spences Bridge? Was he born within a mile of where we're standing? Was he tall, or short and stocky? Was he handsome or just plain? Did his mother call him Son or Darling Ned?

Did his features speak of Sweden or the steppes of the Ukraine? Was he freckled? Did his buddies call him "Red"? Did he play for Salmonbellies at the oval in the park? Did he star at cricket on the Brockton green? Or was the Kamloops drama club the place he made his mark? Did he learn to swim and fish in the Stikine? Did he dance around a maypole? Was he in the Boys' Brigade? Did a Campbell River girl say she would wait? Did he lie in bed and listen to the sounds the ocean made? Was the frozen Kootenay where he learned to skate? Did he labour on a green chain at a Prince George lumber mill?

Did he plan to log, or article, or teach? In winter did he ride his sleigh down a North Vancouver hill? Did he spend bright summer days at White Rock beach? Did he hang out on Cordova near the taverns and the docks, And take a drink, and charm the girls, and brawl? Did he ice-fish near Kelowna? Or take solitary walks? Was he quiet? Did he hear the poet's call? Was the telegram delivered to a mansion on a hill, Or a humble Lulu Island fishing shack? Was his graduation picture sitting on the windowsill? Did his dog sense he was never coming back?

When we wear the blood-red poppy, or say a silent prayer, Or lay a wreath beside the silent guns, We feel that he is present; we feel him standing there; For he is all our wars and all our sons. [1405] CANCER SOCIETY DAFFODIL MONTH S. Hawkins: April, as we all probably know, is Ca- nadian Cancer Society's Daffodil Month all across Can- ada. This is the time when volunteers from coast to coast work together to give their time and effort to raise both awareness and funds in the fight against cancer. Cancer is the leading cause of premature death in Canada.

Almost all of us have been touched by cancer, either directly or through a loved one or a friend. Every seven and a half minutes, one Canadian dies of cancer. A report recently released by the Canadian Cancer Society estimates that in this year alone, about one in 200 Canadians will be diagnosed with some kind of cancer. Here in British Columbia we have some of the best cancer statistics and some of the best cancer stan- dards and outcomes in the w o r l d .

W e h a v e b e e n s u c - cessful in lowering our incidence rates of cancer be- cause of our major emphasis on preventative strategies, which focus on tobacco reduction, increased physical activity and healthier diets. All of these strategies help reduce the major risk factors of cancer. Chances of surviving cancer are higher in British Columbia than in most other parts of Canada for a va- riety of cancers. In British Columbia we're very pleased to work with the Canadian Cancer Society, British Co- lumbia and Yukon Division, as one of our partners in our approach to the prevention and control of cancer.

The bright yellow daffodil stands for the fight against all cancers. When th e Canadian Cancer Society volunteers come to your door, please give generously, and know that your donations fund research to help those who are fighting their battles with this disease. BIOHEAT M. Karagianis: I've stood in this House on several occasions and talked about the advantages of biodiesel as a bridging option for vehicles until the future of per- sonal transportation is more evident.

On a recent trip to the Cranbrook area, my good friend from Nelson- Creston, knowing my passion for biodiesel, pointed out the local biodiesel provider there.

7126 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 Today I want to talk about the options for bioheat applications for home and business heating. We have seen the emergence of bioheat for home use right here in the CRD and even out th ere in Cranbrook. I think there are endless opportunities for bioheat to be used in business buildings as well. As government we can lead the way. We can endorse bioheat for all government buildings. Anywhere that oil heat or heated boilers exist, they can switch to bioheat. That could even include this legislative building.

If we are going to change the lightbulbs to be more responsive to climate change, I think we can certainly take the much larger step to heat our buildings with bioheat. According to the U.S. National Biodiesel Board, the only difference between large commercial boilers and home use is the amount of gallons that you consume. They are all the same fundamental application as home heating through the big boilers. The clean cities initia- tive in the U.S. is strongly in support of the shift to bio- heat. I think we can be as pr ogressive as they are, and in fact I think we can be more progressive.

We all know that it will take a paradigm shift in each of our own lives in order to take on the challenge of slowing climate change. Collectively, I think that as government we can show that as a whole we are also prepared to make that paradigm shift and lead the way. So I hope we can take on that challenge here. RETAIL BUSINESS PEOPLE B. Bennett: Retail Week in B.C. starts in a few days, and this is my opportunity to honour those small busi- ness people who work so hard. I grew up in a retail family with five kids. We all worked in the family busine ss.

My mother and father owned a furniture store in a small town in Ontario that my grandfather started in 1926. Today my brother competes successfully with the likes of The Brick and Leon's, and most days he wins, at least often enough to stay in business. [1410] My father told me when I was a kid working in the family business that when I was in his house, I had two choices. I could work, or I could go to school. Those were the only two choices we had. Small business people have the work ethic, or they don't survive.

Many of them have no pension or health care plan, and their business plan is jeopardized every day by a million uncontrollable, unexpected things like SARS, BSE, 9/11, floods and forest fires. I ended up owning my ow n small business at the age of 27. My wife and I went through the complete entrepreneurial experience, from the startup when you have no money to the good day when you finally get to sell your successful business.

I've had to go to suppliers with my cap in hand to ask them for a little more time t o p a y , a n d I ' v e b e e n k i c k e d o u t t h e d o o r b y a c h a r - tered bank for the simple reason that their studies showed them that resort businesses are likely to fail. Small business people are resilient. They are par- ticularly busy right now, with such a strong, expanding and confident economy, which some people would have us believe is 100 percent due to strong commodity prices but which I know is largely due to the smarter regulations, lower taxes and support of free enterprise.

With retail, money stays in the community. Retail business people volunteer for the local service clubs, and they donate a portion of their often meagre profits to churches, sporting and youth groups, food banks and all the other positive community ventures that we are all familiar with. I want to congratulate th e Minister of Small Busi- ness and Revenue for the work he's done to streamline regulations and to reduce the tax burden on our job creators in small business. I look forward to celebrating Retail Week with all of the hard-working retailers in the East Kootenays.

Oral Questions ALLEGATIONS OF PARTISAN MEDIA ACTIVITIES BY LIBERAL STAFF C. James: "I believe that the Premier and the Of- fice of the Premier are the fundamental arbiters of accountability…. They are the fundamental referees of accountability within the government…the Pre- m i e r m u s t a l w a y s l e a d b y e x a m p l e . H i s o f f i c e m u s t lead by example." Those words came from this Premier when he was Leader of the Opposition. Will he now live up to those words and tell the people of British Columbia if staff in his office are still engaged in blatant partisan media manipulation? Hon. G.

Campbell: We canvassed this yesterday in this House. I said yesterday and I will say today that there are matters before the courts. I will not be an- swering questions that arise from those matters before the courts. That, in fact, is a reflection of the responsi- bility we have to protect the integrity of the courts and the legal process in British Columbia. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a supplemental. C. James: Well, the Premier has refused to answer simple questions about what the taxpayers pay his staff to do.

British Columbians know that the Liberal staff have been caught playing dirty tricks before. Taxpayers want to make sure that the Premier has put a stop to it. "The Premier must always lead by example." Those are the Premier's own words. So once again I ask the Premier: will he in fact do that today — lead by exam- ple and make sure that he's accountable to the taxpay- ers by investigating his staff? Hon. G. Campbell: I can assure the Leader of the Opposition that I intend to continue leading British Columbia by example. Part of that example is to be…. Interjections.

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7127 Mr. Speaker: Members. Continue, Premier. Hon. G. Campbell: P a r t o f t h a t e x a m p l e i s t o b e forthright with regard to what I believe are my respon- sibilities. I understand the re sponsibilities of the oppo- sition to ask questions. They certainly have to carry those responsibilities out. [1415] I have a responsibility, as I have said, to protect the issues that are currently befo re the court. I do not in- tend to comment on issues that are before the court or arise from that court proceeding until it is complete. Mr.

Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a further supplemental. C. James: Well, I can tell you what kind of an ex- ample we have. It's a sad example of a Premier who's hiding behind a court case to avoid accountability. That's the example we have in British Columbia. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. C. James: Last week we learned that Jessica McDonald launched an investigation into the conduct of Pilothouse lobbyists and former Deputy Minister Paul Taylor. That investigation was launched after an e-mail from Pilot- house surfaced — the very same people who are involved in the current court case.

We all know that information is part of the trial. Again, to the Premier: if Jessica McDonald can in- vestigate Paul Taylor and Pilothouse, why can't the Premier investigate his own staff now? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Hon. G. Campbell: If we know anything, we know the position that the Leader of the Opposition would take with regard to the integrity of the courts here in the province of British Columbia. I can tell you this, and I will tell the members of the opposition this. I un- derstand the role that oppo sition plays, and everyone in British Columbia welcomes that role.

None of us would like anything better than for that court case to run its full gamut and to have a conclu- sion of that court case. However, as I have said, I do not intend to respond to ques tions that arise from that court case. I believe that would be wrong. Therefore, that will remain my position. It is our responsibility in this House to reflect on and respect that. That's exac tly what this side of the House, at least, will always do. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. L.

Krog: Well, both yesterday and now again today, despite every opportunity to do so, for the Premier to tell this House whether government staff in his office are currently — and I ask the Premier to listen — en- gaged in dirty tricks like call ing in to talk show radio hosts and lobbing softball questions to the Premier…. Government appointees like Prem Vinning and Steve Vander Wal have been caught before. One would think the Premier would want answers. But now the Premier is caught in a double standard.

His own deputy is investigating Pilothouse and Paul Taylor but won't touch allegations of media manipu- lation in his own office. Why is the Premier protecting his dirty tricks op- erations but investigating the activities of Paul Taylor? Hon. G. Campbell: Let's at least get the facts straight. My deputy received an e-mail from a third party through ICBC. She felt it was important that she fully investigate that. She did. She found no substance behind the e-mail. However, out of an excess of cau- tion, she decided to have a third party fully review all aspects of that e-mail.

That third party will be report- ing out. That report will be made available to the pub- lic, subject to the Freedom of Information and Protec- tion of Privacy Act. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. L. Krog: The Premier has now had two days to de- nounce political dirty tricks. He's had every opportu- nity in this House, throug h numerous questions, to denounce political dirty tricks, but instead he's con- tinuing to stonewall.

Sadly, the Premier's silence on this issue is starting to sound a lot like he's prepared to condone political and partisan trickery. [1420] My question to the Premie r is very simple. Does he condone blatant partisan political manipulation occur- r i n g i n h i s o f f i c e ? I s h e g o i n g t o b e p r e p a r e d i n t h i s House today to stand up and condemn it? Hon. G. Campbell: I appreciate the opportunity to respond to this. Let me be clear. I encourag e people to be involved in public life. I encourage people to have ideas about how we can make this province better. I encourage people to serve.

I encourage them to serve in elected office. I en- courage them to serve in public service. It's a rewarding occupation. It's something, frankly, all members of this House should be encouraging people to do. I intend to continue doing that, and I in tend to continue serving the people of British Columbia. B. Ralston: The Premier leans on legal advice to remain silent about a case that is currently before the courts. My question concerns current Liberal staffers who are working in this building here today.

The Premier has a broader public duty to lift the cloud over his office and reassure taxpayers that we aren't footing the bill for partisan activities. Will the

7128 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 Premier please advise the House what steps he has taken to assure the public that he isn't condoning po- litical tricks by his current political staff? Hon. G. Campbell: Let's be clear. There is not a cloud in British Columbia with regard to the public service or people who are actively involved in the public service. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Hon. G. Campbell: I think that, again, the opposition has every opportunity to ask questions, and they're wel- come to do so.

However, the fact that they ask them on a regular basis does not mean that the answer changes. I intend to act according to what I believe is right, which is to protect the integrity of the court proceedings that are currently underway. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. B. Ralston: Let's be clear. I'm not referring to the broad public service; I'm referring to the political staff hired as appointments in th e Premier's office. The peo- ple of the province deserve to know this.

Are they still paying for the Premier's political staff t o c a l l i n , f a k i n g t h e i r v o i c e s a s o r d i n a r y c i t i z e n s , t o political radio shows? Hon. G. Campbell: I do not intend to answer any questions which arise from the case that is currently before the courts. D. Chudnovsky: This is not so complicated. There are questions as to whether st aff in the Premier's office are carrying on activities which all of us would see as inappropriate. There are questions as to whether peo- ple in the Premier's office are making fake phone calls, pretending to be someone who they're not.

There are questions as to who might be paying those people to carry on those inappropriate activities. You'd think that in that context, the Premier would want to at least have a meeting with the people on his staff and say: "It's my point of view that that's not what the people on my staff should be doing." My question is: has he had that meeting? Hon. W. Oppal: Let's not kid ourselves. All of this arises…. Interjections. Hon. W. Oppal: All of this arises…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Continue, Attorney. Hon. W.

Oppal: All of this arises out of the allega- tions that are being made presently in the Supreme Court of British Columbia. It would be totally im- proper for us to comment on anything that takes place in that trial or anything that arises out of the evidence or the allegations that have come to light in that trial. [1425] Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. D. Chudnovsky: My question to the Premier: has he called a meeting? Has he sent a message? Has he issued a memo? Has he issued a directive?

Has he done anything — anything — to send a message to the peo- ple on his staff that these questions need to be an- swered and that this kind of activity is inappropriate? Has he done anything to send that message to his staff? Hon. W. Oppal: The questions are the same. They're merely being asked by different persons. The fact is…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. W. Oppal: We will not comment on anything that arises out of allegation s that are being made in the Supreme Court of British Columbia. M.

Farnworth: What's clear is that it doesn't matter who is answering from the other side; whether it's the Premier or the Attorney Ge neral, the stonewalling is the same. The people of this province want more than stonewalling. They want answers. My question is to the Premier. He says he wishes to l e a d b y e x a m p l e . H e s a y s h e w i s h e s t o b r i n g a n d e n - courage new people into politics in this province.

So will he do that, and will he tell people who are inter- ested in running for public office in this province that it is unacceptable for members of his staff or, in fact, any minister's staff to engage in dirty tricks in the province of British Columbia? Hon. W. Oppal: This is all about respect for the in- tegrity of the criminal justice system. It is obvious that that side of the House don't understand the independ- ence and the workings of th e criminal justice system. They run with baseless allegations. They base their ques- tions on that, and they expect us to answer them.

There's no basis for answ ering any of those ques- tions. The answer remain s the same. We will not comment on anything that impacts on the fairness of the trial. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. M. Farnworth: What's clear is that the government doesn't want to answer for the activities of members in the Premier's office staff. I'd like to ask a question to the minister who's responsible for paying those staff. Does she believe that it's appropriate for people who are being paid by taxpayers' funds to be engaged in parti- san activities?

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7129 Hon. W. Oppal: This is a classic case of taking an allegation and making a finding of fact. The basic premise of the question is so faulty…. There's no fac- tual basis for that question at all — none. [1430] CONFLICT-OF-INTEREST CONCERNS REGARDING LOBBYING ACTIVITIES OF KEN DOBELL J. Kwan: Well, that's why there's a call from this side of the House for an investigation, which this gov- ernment refuses to look into . To date, the Premier has refused to answer questions about his staff manipulat- ing the media.

He has yet to answer any questions about his top adviser, Ken Dobell, who is under inves- tigation for violating the Lobbyists Registration Act. But the investigation won't look into potential con- flict of interest and the many hats that he wears. Mr. Dobell even sent a letter outlining his conflict concerns to the Premier's deputy, Jessica McDonald, and Van- couver city manager Judy Rogers. My question to the Premie r is this. Who cleared Mr.

Dobell of conflict of interest regarding his duelling contracts and responsibilities with the province of Brit- ish Columbia and the city of Vancouver, and did the Premier personally sign off on that? Hon. G. Campbell: As the member has noted, Mr. Loukidelis, the FOI commissioner, is carrying out a fact-finding review with regard to the allegations the member opposite is making. Mr. Dobell was forthright in telling me what he was doing for the province. Ob- viously, I knew. That was part of his contractual obli- gations — softwood lumber, Gateway opportunities, etc.

He also informed us of the activities he was taking on behalf of the city of Vancouver. Let me be clear to everyone in this House. This government intends to work with the city of Vancou- ver, with the city of Prince George, with the city of Ter- race, with the city of Victoria, and we will…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Hon. G. Campbell: The fact that those jurisdictions have people on retainer is clearly something that they decide to do independently of this government.

We will, however, continue to work with municipalities across the province to make those municipalities better places for everybody to live. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. J. Kwan: Let's be clear. Mr. Loukidelis is looking into the issues around violat ions of the lobbyists regis- t r y . M y q u e s t i o n i s a r o u n d c o n f l i c t o f i n t e r e s t . M r . Dobell, with all of his many appointments and con- tracts, is subject to the st andards established by the board resourcing and development office.

Those stan- dards state: "There must be no apprehension of bias, based on what a reasonable person might perceive." Even Mr. Dobell recognized potential perceived conflict, but nothing was done by this Premier. He ig- nored those concerns. Can the Premier tell this House if those rules were used to determine if Mr. Ken Dobell was in a conflict position? Or did those rules not apply to Mr. Dobell, his personal friend and adviser? Hon. G. Campbell: It's interesting to hear the ques- tions coming from the oppo sition. Mr. Dobell has over three decades of public service… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. G.

Campbell: …for the city of Vancouver, for TransLink and for the province of British Columbia. In April of 2005 Mr. Dobell was contracted with the prov- ince to work on a number of issues. He worked on the softwood lumber file. I can tell you he did exceptional service on behalf of all British Columbians on the soft- wood lumber file. He worked on the province's… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. G. Campbell: …Gateway strategy.

I can tell you on behalf of all the people of British Columbia that he did exceptional service on behalf of developing the Gateway strategy between the province and the federal government. Then Mr. Dobell was put on retainer by the city of Vancouver to help with cultural and housing issues. Now, on this side of the House, we actually like to try and start solving the housing problem, as opposed to talking about solving the housing problem. If the city of Vancouver…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Continue, Premier. [1435] Hon. G. Campbell: If the city of Vancouver decided to have Mr.

Dobell on retainer, that was their choice. The province is pursuing our provincial agenda, our provincial objectives through the Premier's Task Force on Homelessness, Mental Illness and Addictions, through the initiatives we've undertaken to start clos- ing that gap, to start working with cities and to provide people who need a home with the shelter that they deserve. M. Karagianis: Well, Mr. Ken Dobell chairs the finance committee of VANOC, which oversees venue planning. He's also a board member of Legacies Now, which is responsible for program delivery. At the same

7130 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 time he's registered as lo bbyist and consultant to the city for the 2010 cultural precincts project. He was the chair of the convention centre board and managed to project that into cost overruns that are yet to be imag- ined. And he still remains a special adviser to the Pre- mier. The Premier's office has cleared him of all con- flict, yet the Premier can't explain to us why and how that was done. So again to the Premier: on what basis was Mr. Do- bell cleared of conflict?

If the Premier cannot answer that question, is he prepared to launch yet another in- dependent review? Hon. G. Campbell: Again, I can only speak to Mr. Dobell's exceptional record of public service. Would that any member of the opposition had the same de- gree of public service and cont ribution to the people of British Columbia or to the people of Vancouver. Interjections. Some Hon. Members: Withdraw. Withdraw. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Continue, Premier. Hon. G. Campbell: Mr. Dobell was on retainer to work with us on a number of projects.

I've highlighted those — the softwood lumber agreement, the Gateway project. I think that members opposite should talk with people that Mr. Dobell has worked with on behalf of the province. Let me be very clear. I think we're lucky that Mr. Dobell has been willing to be such an exceptional pub- lic servant. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. M. Karagianis: Well, you know, the Premier's office has maintained that there's no conflict, and the Premier evidently can't provide any kind of rationale whatsoever for why there has been no clear path here on determin- ing the conflict of interest.

A ll we know is that the Pre- mier's friend and insider, Mr. Ken Dobell, wrote a letter to his protégé at the city, Judy Rogers, and to Jessica McDonald, his protégé in the Premier's office. It's this tight little circle that has decided there's no conflict. But I'd like to know if he can explain why he has not done due diligence on this and consulted with the AG's office to protect taxpay ers from this very evident conflict of interest. [1440] Hon. G. Campbell: Again, I appreciate the fact that the opposition wants to ask these and has a responsi- bility to ask questions. I would ask that they let Mr.

Loukidelis's fact-finding review run its course, and I would ask that they simply look at the facts. Mr. Dobell is on contra ct and retainer with the province of British Columbia. He was also retained with the city of Vancouver to help them with some of the challenges that they fa ce. I believe there are many, many people in the public sector who would reflect on the work he has done and say that that's been a major contribution to the people of Vancouver and to the people of the province. Let me just give the members opposite a little news flash here.

People that live in Vancouver are also peo- ple that live in the province of British Columbia, and we're working together to solve problems. GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS TO LOBBYISTS H. Lali: Yesterday we heard the Premier admit that it was only after the matter became public that he investi- gated the activities of Mr. Paul Taylor vis-à-vis his rela- tionship with Pilothouse. Today he admitted that after receiving an e-mail from ICBC is when he took action.

However, on November 1, 2006, I wrote to the Pre- mier asking questions about senior Liberal government officials who were directing business to lobbyists — spe- cifically Mr. Paul Taylor directing work to Brian Kieran — and if someone in the Premier's office had done any in- quiries about Mr. Taylor directing business to Mr. Kieran. My question is to the Premier: did the Premier at any time following my letter of November 1, 2006, ask his Attorney General to investigate or refer the matter to the Attorney General for an investigation? If not, why not? Hon. G.

Campbell: I did receive the letter from the member opposite. I saw no substance behind the letter. I didn't feel it was important for us to act. Frankly, the member opposite sent a letter, and that was the last we heard of it. What we did was…. When we got an e-mail from a third party through ICBC, my staff reviewed it. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Hon. G. Campbell: My staff reviewed it. My deputy found no substance behind that.

Out of an excess of caution, she decided to en gage an independent third party to do a full review of the issues arising out of that e-mail, to write a report and to make that report public upon its completion. It will be made public. It will be made available to all the people of British Columbia. That is an appropriate way to deal with those kinds of allegations. They are allegations, and they… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. G. Campbell: …are only allegations. The op- position is incorrect to su ggest they're anything else until we've got the results of that review. [End of question period.]

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7131 Point of Order M. Farnworth: I rise… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. M. Farnworth: …on a point of order. I rise, asking the Premier of the province of British Columbia to withdraw the remarks he made concerning the records of public service of members of this House. It was of- fensive, and it was not something that is in the tradition of the spirit of this chamber. Hon. M. de Jong: I was listening very…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon.

M. de Jong: With the greatest respect to my friend the Opposition House Leader, I was listening carefully during question period and heard no such comments. If he wishes to be more specific, I'll cer- tainly entertain that. But I heard no comment that would fall into the category as described by the hon. member. Mr. Speaker: I will review the record. Points of Privilege J. Kwan: I reserve the right to raise a matter of privilege in this House. N. Simons: I reserve the right to raise a matter of personal privilege in this House. S. Fraser: I seek leave to submit a petition. Mr.

Speaker: Proceed. [1445] Petitions S. Fraser: I submit a petition containing several thousand signatures from citi zens of B.C. all over the province urging the government to move forward with the Promotion of Safe Antifreeze Act. C. Trevena: I seek leave to present a petition. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. C. Trevena: I have a petition with several hun- dred names calling for restoration of the child care operating funds, child care resource and referral pro- gram, and a commitment from this government to build a strong, affordable and accessible quality child care system. D. Routley: I seek leave to present a petition.

Mr. Speaker: Proceed. D. Routley: T h i s i s a p e t i t i o n c a r d s i g n e d b y 9 4 members of the Cowichan, Lyackson and other tribes seeking the establishment of a joint chief negotiators table which could work to solve six areas identified as causing problems for treaty talks. Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: I call Committee of Supply.

For the information of members, in this chamber we will be debating the estimates of the Ministry of Environment and in Committee A the estimates of the Ministry of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Re- sources. [1450-1455] Committee of Supply ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF ENVIRONMENT AND MINISTER RESPONSIBLE FOR WATER STEWARDSHIP AND SUSTAINABLE COMMUNITIES The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); S. Hawkins in the chair. The committee met at 2:58 p.m. On Vote 29: ministry operations, $186,557,000 . Hon. B.

Penner: If I may, I'd like to start with a few opening remarks to introduce the 2007-2008 budget estimates for the Ministry of Environment and the Min- ister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustain- able Communities. First of all, I'd like to acknowledge and thank all the staff at the Ministry of Environment for their out- standing work and for their dedication to environ- mental stewardship day in and day out. Every day, in every region of British Columbia, over 1,400 staff….

I n f a c t , i f y o u l o o k a t t h e b u d g e t d o c u m e n t s , i t i n d i - cates that there are 1,493 FTEs for the Ministry of En- vironment. These staff experts work on the effective delivery of legislation, programs, compliance infor- mation and enforcement, and other shared steward- ship activities.

It is because of their expertise and their commit- ment to the betterment of our environment that we are able to achieve our number one priority: to ensure sound and efficient environmental management while protecting air and water quality, and effective steward- ship and protection for fish, wildlife and their habitat. Through partnerships acro ss government and with first nations, communities and the private sector, we are working on enhanced water and air stewardship and protection, and to maintain responsible, sustain- able use of our environmental resources.

7132 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 Climate change solutions will foster innovation and new technologies, which will translate into more jobs, new investments and, ultimately, greater prosperity for British Columbia. As we all heard in the throne speech, we will con- tinue to build on a reputati on for environmental stew- ardship by establishing ta rgets and actions that will reduce B.C.'s greenhouse gases by at least one-third by 2020.

The Ministry of Environment has several closely related strategies in place, such as the air action plan and the climate change plan, to achieve this goal in a realistic, economically viable way. [1500] As indicated in the throne speech, the threat of cli- mate change is very real. Just this past year we suffered from some extreme weather right here in B.C. — from a summer drought severe enough to raise concerns about fish, water supply and agriculture to a series of intense winter storms that left behind a near-record snowpack.

Before we had last summer's drought, I do recall that last January and February in the lower mainland, news outlets were commenting on a near-record number of consecutive days of rainfall. We've really gone from pillar to post and back again in terms of weather ex- tremes in British Columbia. While these weather events have affected the lives of many British Columbians and kept ministry staff very busy, they have also heightened our awareness about climate change. It is imperative that we find ways to forestall global warming and minimize the impacts it has already unleashed.

The B.C. climate change plan will set a clear course for a greener future and a healthier planet. This fiscal year alone we're investing an additional $4 million on climate change actions in a ddition to an initial $3.5 million in clean air partnerships, which will increase to $5 million in the next fiscal year. As part of our climate change strategy, we will re- quire that by 2016 all electr icity produced in British Columbia have net zero greenhouse gas emissions and that the emissions from the oil and gas industry are reduced to levels that we had in the year 2000.

We will also establish tailpipe emission standards for all new vehicles sold in British Columbia, aiming to reduce carbon dioxide emissions from vehicles by 30 percent between 2009 and 2016. Most importantly, the B.C. government will lead by example, aiming to be carb on-neutral by 2010. As of this past February all new cars leased or purchased by the B.C. government will be hybrids. Let's not forget that earlier this year B.C. became the first jurisdiction in North America to require 100-percent carbon seques- tration for any coal-fired electricity project.

While we may have been the first, let me predict that we won't be the last. In fact, I think we're the first in the world, but it's my un derstanding that the Euro- pean Union is currently considering a similar policy proposal. We believe that encouraging and educating all Brit- ish Columbians to actively care for their environment is key to an ongoing environmental stewardship legacy. That is why we have several initiatives in place to en- courage people to make better, environmentally health- ier choices.

We will continue to offer a $2,000 provin- cial sales tax exemption on the purchase of hybrid pas- senger vehicles, and we will put in place incentives to reduce the use of conventional wood stoves and will instead encourage the use of cleaner-burning stoves and encourage industry to adopt better emission tech- nologies. We will continue to explore new ways to promote environmentally resp onsible personal choices that will reduce carbon consumption.

We are assisted in protecting the environment by the environmental assessment office, which reports in through the Ministry of Environment while retaining its role as a neutral agency with its own legislation. As you know, it coordinates the assessment of proposed major projects in British Columbia as required under the Environmental Assessment Act. It examines major projects for potentially adverse environmental, eco- nomic, social, health and heritage effects that may oc- cur during the life cycle of said projects, including con- struction, operation and decommissioning.

This fiscal year we will be investing, in addition to last year's increase of $1 million, an additional $1.15 million for the environmental assessment office to manage the increase of mining, energy and infrastruc- ture projects entering the environmental assessment process, for a total of $6.95 million. But fighting climate chan ge and protecting the en- vironment are only two of the Ministry of Environ- ment's many areas of responsibility. In 2003 we estab- lished the living rivers trust fund, committing $7 mil- lion to protect and restore B.C.'s rivers and waterways, including valuable fish habitat.

Last May our Premier tripled the fund to $21 million. In November 2006 our government determined that $10 million from the living rivers trust fund would go towards a collaborative effort to restore and maintain healthy and diverse salmon populations in the Fraser River watershed. The government of Canada has matched this amount with $5 million in cash and a commitment of $5 million in staff time, which means this important watershed will benefit from a total of $20 million. [1505] In terms of compliance and enforcement we're delivering on a full range of activities.

These include educating citizens to be better environmental stew- ards, promoting the understanding of and compliance with regulatory requirements, conducting investiga- tions and working with ministry programs on a vari- ety of enforcement options. We aim to assist our enforcement actions by in- forming and educating British Columbians on how to become more responsible environmental citizens. This includes encouraging change s in attitude and habits, and supporting initiatives and programs like the bear smart and Bear Aware pr ograms, which focus on minimizing human-wildlife conflict.

By educating and informing the public, we can prevent damage before it happens. In circumstances in

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7133 which enforcement is necessary, our conservation offi- cers are working in the field every day to ensure com- pliance. We also, of course, have the new commercial environmental investigations unit, a specialized unit dedicated to the investigation of large-scale corporate and commercial violators of ministry legislation. In addition to the field staff, the compliance division em- ploys 21 office staff members who support the minis- try's integrated compliance approach and ensure effec- tive management of the conservation officer service.

Since 2005 we've hired 25 part-time and full-time park rangers, and this year we'll be further increasing the num- ber of positions. Last year we had about 131 park rangers working in the field, and this year we will be adding five new FTEs in terms of park ranger positions. As I mentioned earlier, we are also proud of our commercial environmental investigations unit, an un- dercover team dedicated to the investigation of corpo- rate and commercial polluters. In addition to all of that, we have committed $9 mil- lion over three years to establish and operate the B.C.

Conservation Corps, a student and graduate mentoring program designed to nurture a new generation of con- servationists for the 21st century. This year alone the B.C. Conservation Corps will employ 150 students and new graduates on a variety of conservation projects across the province. These projects will range from species-at-risk inventories to habitat and park restoration initiatives to the student conservation officer service project.

The Corps is not only a great way to give students a chance to get hands-on experience, it also helps to ad- dress the growing concern of succession, ensuring that there will be qualified staff to fill in the gaps when our field professionals, and the people seated next to me, start to retire. In terms of parks and pr otected areas, I am proud to say that across this province, B.C. Parks currently offers more than 11,000 campsites in more than 800 parks and protected areas. Just last Tuesday I had the honour of introducing Bill 24, the Parks and Protected Areas Statutes Amendment Ac t, 2007.

This legislation establishes 41 new conservancies and three new class- A parks while making additions to 16 existing parks and three conservancies. We're building on last year's historic central coast and north coast land use decisions to protect some of the most spectacular and ecologically diverse land- scapes and coastal areas in the world. Including these new parks and conservancies, since 2001 we have es- tablished a total of 46 new parks, 65 conservancies, one ecological reserve and eight protected areas.

We've expanded more than 50 parks, three conservancies and six ecological reserves, pr otecting more than 800,000 hectares. Today 13.8 percent, or more than 13 million hectares, of British Columbia land is protected, which is more than any other province in Canada. This fiscal year we are investing $4.75 million on B.C. Parks to ensure that British Columbians get the best services at our parks, which number more than 600. I should just clarify th at. We're investing an addi- tional $4.75 million on B.C. Parks.

We also continue to negotiate parks collaborative management agreements with a number of first nations right across this province. These agreements will help identify economic opportunities for the first nations involved, increasing economic activity in parks and conservancies and providing opportunities for first nations in rural areas. There are more than 20 such agreements already in place, and the ministry is cur- rently in negotiations for 15 more.

Our approach to environmental stewardship in- cludes developing, promoting and measuring achieve- ments in the conservation of living resources, manage- ment of protected areas, and provision of freshwater fish and wildlife recreation opport unities. In the last four years we have established 286 wildlife habitat areas comprising more than 650,000 hectares, and 26 ungulate winter ranges totalling more than 2.2 million hectares. We continue to use science-based information to develop policy, legislation and regulations that set clear environmental standards and performance expec- tations.

Most importantly, by working closely together with stakeholders, partners and the public, we are fos- tering shared stewardship and facilitating community initiatives to protect and restore local environments. [1510] I t i s a l s o t h e m i n i s t r y ' s mandate to provide leader- ship in water stewardship. This means making sure that water resources and ecosystems are safe, sustainable and valued by all British Columbians. It's our responsibility to support sustainable water allocation and source-water protection and to build public awareness about the im- portance of this invaluable and finite resource.

It's only natural that th inking of water resources inevitably leads to thinking of our oceans, but oceans are more than simply water. They are extremely valu- able ecosystems teeming with life, and they're tightly linked to the economy of our province. It's the respon- sibility of the oceans and marine fisheries division within the Ministry of Envi ronment to ensure sustain- able and integrated management of B.C.'s ocean re- sources. This includes fostering stable and diverse ma- rine fisheries for social and economic benefits for all British Columbians.

Obviously, this involves engaging our federal counterparts in the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. By supporting the growth and diversification of a verifiably sustainable seafood industry, we will ensure a stronger presence of B.C. sea products in an increas- ingly competitive global market in which sustainability is becoming a top market requirement. In terms of sustainable communities, our govern- ment has a strategy in place which will not only de- velop policy but will encourage British Columbians to embrace more sustainable approaches to land and re- source development and a healthier lifestyle.

The Ministry of Environment is coordinating a va- riety of cross-government programs that reflect our collaborative approach to community sustainability in the areas of energy efficien cy, green infrastructure planning, air quality, wate r security, transportation and waste management.

7134 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 In conclusion, these are pivotal times for the envi- ronment in B.C. and Canada and, indeed, in the world — times in which even our smallest actions as indi- viduals can have an impact of global consequence. Through the Ministry of Environment, the government of British Columbia will support a series of initiatives to help each one of us reduce this impact, which will in turn result in a stronger, more sustainable economy for our province.

Budget 2007 will continue to support our mandate to lead the world in sustainable environmental management with the best air and water quality and the best fisheries management, while furthering our efforts to curb green- house gas emissions and to fight climate change. That said, hon. Chair, I look forward to taking a number of questions from the opposition. S. Simpson: I do look forward to having the opportu- nity to raise a number of issues with the minister around estimates and doing that over the next number of days.

Just for the information of the minister, we're going to do some general questions around budget, staffing and administration, and then we'll be moving on to questions related to climate change. We'll see how we do on those over the next two days. I'd like to start by asking the minister to tell me about…. In the ministry estimates we have about an additional $25 million in Vote 29. Could the minister tell us what that additional $25 million is going to get spent on? Hon. B. Penner: Before I proceed, I should just in- troduce some of the capable staff that are seated in close proximity to me.

Maybe I'll do that when the op- position member returns. To answer the question, the breakdown of the addi- tional $25 million that the member refers to, there is a $9.6 million increase to water rental remissions to B.C. Hydro. That's related to water use plan implementa- tion. As I already stated in my opening remarks, there's $4.75 million for parks, $4 million additional funding for climate change, $3.5 million for clean air partner- ships, $2.317 million related to negotiated salary in- creases in the Ministry of Environment. There's $59,000 in money earned on trees cu t in provincial parks.

Pur- suant to government policy, the revenue from that goes back to the park system. [1515] R. Austin: Can the minister tell us how the public sector pay increases were budgeted in this ministry? Hon. B. Penner: H o n . C h a i r , I w a s r e m i s s i n n o t introducing the capable staff sitting around me. Seated on my immediate right, the viewers' left, is Chris Trumpy, the deputy minister for the Ministry of Envi- ronment. Seated on my immediate left, or the viewers' right, is Lynn Bailey, assistant deputy minister for en- vironmental protection. Behind me is Kathy Brereton, manager of financial planning.

She'll stay close behind me, because she's got all the financial details with her. I believe the member's question related to salary increases for the Ministry of Environment. That is budgeted at $2.317 million. R. Austin: Have any program areas been moved to another ministry? Hon. B. Penner: I don't believe so. No. R. Austin: Have there been any salary increases for political staff this year? Hon. B. Penner: I'm not aware of anything that's budgeted for 2007-2008 in that regard. S.

Simpson: In regard to that, could the minister tell us who his political staff are in his office and give us a bit of an idea of what their responsibilities are? Hon. B. Penner: Jerry Muir is my ministerial assis- tant, and my executive assistant is Sarah Reeves. S. Simpson: C o u l d t h e m i n i s t e r t e l l u s w h a t w a s spent in the previous year on travel for the minister or his political staff? [1520] Hon. B. Penner: Hon.

Chair, I don't have the details for last year, but I'm advised by the manager of finan- cial planning that the good news is that we finished the year within budget for the of fice as a whole, and travel gets paid for out of the office budget. The details of those travel expenses will be made available in public accounts, I believe, in the third week of June. S. Simpson: Possibly the minister could tell us: is there any plan for increase d travel budgets for this upcoming year? Hon. B. Penner: The total….

On page 43 of the Sup- plement to the Estimates , you'll find for the Ministry of Environment, under "Ministe r's Office," projected op- erating expenses for 2007-2008 of $499,000. All ex- penses related to the operation of the minister's office come from that amount. Last year the office was budg- eted, according to page 42, at $490,000. S. Simpson: I appreciate that, and I did look in the estimates book, and I saw those two numbers that the minister has just quoted. I'm still curious as to whether we know or have an idea of what portion of that budget is spent on travel for the minister and his staff. Hon. B.

Penner: Referring back to the same docu- ment, the member will see — if he turns to page 42, in one of the columns — that an amount of $46,000 is pro- jected for travel expenses for the office. S. Simpson: For this coming year? Hon. B. Penner: For fiscal 2007-2008.

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7135 S. Simpson: Could the minister tell us…? I'll just preface this question a little bit. I'm sure that there's a whole range of people who come to visit the minister's office on a regular basis to talk about environmental issues and to raise and put concerns forward. What I'm looking for, hon. Chair, is to get an idea of how much of the minister's time or the minister's staff's time — M r . M u i r o r o t h e r s i n t h e m i n i s t e r ' s o f f i c e — have to pay to that time.

I'd be interested in knowing: does his staff meet with lobbyists — and we'll deem them lobbyists, those people who are in the business of lobbying — and what kind of time commitment does that take? Hon. B. Penner: The member's correct. There's a pretty steady traffic flow in and out of my office on any given day. The ministerial assistant, Jerry Muir, cer- tainly handles a lot of traffic as well.

Various members of the Legislature, including members of the opposi- tion, drop by on a regular basis. [1525] I wouldn't have the ability at this moment to give you an estimate of what percentage of his time goes to meeting with various people . I know the phone rings pretty steadily and the doors swing open and shut on a regular basis, but I don't have a complete breakdown of how many people come and go. S. Simpson: Maybe the minister could tell us: would that record be available as to around who…? Mr. Muir, I presume, would be the primary point per- son for the minister, though he could correct me if I'm wrong.

Would that information be available — about who those people are that he's spending time meeting? Hon. B. Penner: I'm not sure if we have a tally sheet by the door for people to sign in when they come and go, but if the member is really wanting to see what's in my calendar, that is available through FOI. S. Simpson: I'm sure that we'll get your calendar. I'm pretty sure that we'd probably get your calendar, but that does raise the next question. I very much understand that Mr.

Muir or others would be lobbied on a pretty regular basis by people who wanted to talk to the minister or wanted to talk about issues that come under the purview of the minis- ter. Does the minister himself meet with lobbyists? [B. Lekstrom in the chair.] Hon. B. Penner: I think what the member should know is that under the Lobbyists Registration Act, there is no obligation, legally, for a minister or an elected per- son to know whether or not the person they're meeting with has registered.

The lega l obligation rests with the person who is employed in the pursuit of lobbying to register under the Lobbyists Registration Act. S. Simpson: I accept that that's the law, and I accept that the minister doesn't ne cessarily have to know who he's meeting with. I know the minister's a pretty astute fellow, and I suspect that he would know when he's being lobbied and when he's not. I'd ask the question again. Does the minister spend his time meeting directly with lobbyists? Hon. B.

Penner: I can't walk down the street without somebody stopping me to ask me about something, whether it's about why it's ra ining so much or why it's not raining more. In fact, I get lobbied on a regular basis by the member's colleagues on a variety of issues per- taining to their constituencies, as I do by all members of this House. I see the member for West Vancouver– Capilano looking at me, who's got a keen interest in steelhead. If you want to portray that as lobbying, you're free to do so.

People stop me wherever I go to ask me about vari- ous questions pertaining to the Ministry of Environ- ment and, frankly, all matters pertaining to govern- ment generally. That's their right to do so. If a person's doing it in a professional capacity and getting paid to do so, then there are certain provisions of the Lobbyists Registration Act that may well apply. S. Simpson: I'm sure every member in this House at some time or other talks to this minister, as they talk to many ministers, about issues that affect their con- stituents or their particular areas of concern.

I would expect them to do no different, as I would expect that citizens of British Columbia, who might be afforded the opportunity to run into the minister and bend his ear about an environmental issue, should do that. As the minister pointed out, I'm more interested in the people who collect a paycheque to do this — not elected representatives, because they have a different responsibility, but people who collect the paycheque to advance positions. I'm interested in knowing whether the minister meets with those folks. I would assume, and maybe this is an assumption…. I know Mr.

Muir a little bit just from his professional work here, and I know he's very skilled and capable at his job. I can't imagine for a minute that he allows people to come in and visit the minister without the minister having a pretty good idea of who he's talking to before they sit down in his office or wherever they meet. [1530] I'll ask again. Of those paid lobbyists…. We'll call them that if that classification will get us to the ques- tion. Does the minister meet with those folks? Hon. B.

Penner: The member may be surprised at how little notice I sometimes get about who is walking through my door, because we pretty much have an open-door policy. People come in on a regular basis. Members of the Legislature did that yesterday. I had a few people drop in unannounced — late into the eve- ning, in fact. If the member is driving at what's in my

schedule and who I'm meeting with, he's more than welcome to make an application for my calendar. I suspect his staff have already done so. I know they did last year.

7136 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 S. Simpson: I hope they have. I suspect so, and I hope they have. We'll move back a little bit here to estimates in the estimates book. When I look in the estimates book…. I'm looking on page 99, the operating expenses by core businesses — "Environmental stewardship." It shows there a slight reduction in appropriations for conserva- tion management, down from $28.004 million or what- ever to $27.5 million or so.

Could the minister tell us how that will affect that particular area, allowing for inflation and presumably allowing for some allocation for salary increases and such that the recent public sector pay increases would have affected that way? Hon. B. Penner: What looks like a 1.4-percent reduc- tion really isn't. In fact, it's incorporated under a new title called "Parks management." You'll find that column in the documents. In fact, there is simply an internal transfer in terms of reporting where that money is being spent. S.

Simpson: Maybe just to clarify that, are there spe- cific activities that would have previously been under conservation management that have now been moved to parks management? And if so, what are they? [1535] Hon. B. Penner: The member will recall from our d e b a t e l a s t y e a r t h a t h e w a s a s k i n g l o t s o f q u e s t i o n s about what the total amount of money spent on parks was, because there was not a separate heading on that. That was inclusively under the topic of, I think, conser- vation management. So this year we've broken that out separately, and that accounts for the change. S.

Simpson: Then the environmental stewardship category, which has a total increase…. I think it's $5.6 million — roughly $5.5 million, something like that — for that total category of environmental stewardship. It goes from $73.2 million to $78.8 million. That's the number I see under the Vote 29. Could the minister then tell us…? I'm assuming that parts of that $5 million…. That's the $4 million for park upgrades that get talk ed about in the budget and fiscal plan. Then the other million and a half — is that just inflation increases, or what would that be? Hon. B.

Penner: Just to clarify the comment made by the member, you suggested or assumed that maybe this was the money for park upgrades or fix-ups. I think that was the terminology. In fact, this is money on the operating side. It is different than the capital side, although it does include, I think, a certain amount of money for increased amortization costs because of the extra capital dollars that have been invested in B.C. Parks. There's $750,000 for negotiated salary increases. That's part of the contract settlement last year as a re- sult of discussions between the government and the B.C.

Government Employees Union, and then there are a variety of other items. Also, we've established a new executive director position for B.C. Parks, so that's a new position that has to be funded. S. Simpson: Then if we look at the parks manage- ment number, the $31 million up to the $36.9 million number under that category, what is that increase? If that's not the dollars for park upgrades, what is that money being spent on? Hon. B. Penner: They're really the same numbers. Two questions ago the member was asking about the change between totals — $73.2 million to $78.87 mil- lion.

The majority of that change, as I think that the member was referring to, is from the changes in the parks budget and th e increases there — w h i c h , a s I mentioned, are related to a number of items: salary increases as a result of the collective agreement and a new executive director position. We will be adding, I believe, five new FTEs for park ranger positions.

There are additional costs coming from inflation related to the park facility operator con- tracts, and then there are a number of other items. [1540] I think that the member was just out of the House when I was mentioning this, but $59,000 is from reve- nue generated from trees cut in provincial parks, which gets reinvested in parks as pursuant to government policy, but that has to show up here as an allocation that we're permitted to spend. S. Simpson: Maybe if I get these figured out in this one category, I'll have them figured out for the other categories.

The wage package increase from the public sector agreement is absorbed, pres umably, in all of these categories down here. For example, under "Fish and wildlife management," that category shows $14 million and change. It roughly is staying very close to the same number. It's about $150,000 difference in terms of spending last year and for this upcoming year in fish and wildlife management. Maybe, then, the minister could tell us: does that mean there are some things, if we allow for inflation and the pay raise, that aren't going to occur in fish and wildlife management now?

Because that would be a reduction in many ways in terms of dollars for service delivery. Or have activities there been moved off to somewhere else, like parks management, as well? Hon. B. Penner: In absolute terms, the impact of the wage increases that were negotiated with the BCGEU appear bigger as they apply to the parks division be- cause the parks division is bigger in terms of the total number of people. But there would be a similar per- centage increase in wages for the people working in the fish and wildlife division. S.

Simpson: My question is th is, then: not knowing what that does to the nu mber, are there changes in terms of resources available or services delivered in the fish and wildlife management category? It would appear to me that if we allow a number for that pay

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7137 raise — we allow for inflation — probably in real dol- lars there's less spending going into that category in the coming year than in the last year. I certainly stand to be corrected if I'm wrong, but it would appear that way to me, because the increase is pretty nominal there. Is that the case? If so, what might those services be that ar e going to be reduced or streamlined or changed in some way? Hon. B. Penner: We don't have all the information here. It's just been requested.

We're seeking the exact number of FTEs, for example, in the fish and wildlife division. I'm told there's no thing untoward. This is an amount of money that was deemed appropriate to cover the wage increases, and perhaps other things as well. S. Simpson: Well, maybe we'll come back to those numbers after staff are able to get them. Moving to the water stewardship category in the vote appropriation. I know the water rental remissions, and if I remember this from previous times, this is somewhat of a bookkeeping exercise for money going back to Hydro, I believe.

Maybe the minister could just clarify the $10 million in that category and where it goes. [1545] Interjection. S. Simpson: I'm looking forward to you doing it. Hon. B. Penner: Let me make a brave initial effort before somebody who's more knowledgable about this enters the chamber to assist. The member is correct. There's a $9.6 million budget increase for water rental remissions. These are associated with the completion of a number of water use plans that were undertaken by B.C. Hydro, British Columbia's premier electrical utility. The member is undoubtedl y familiar with the water use planning process.

It involves a number of stake- holders, from communities to people representing a variety of interests, including B.C. Hydro itself, that look at how they can change the operation of B.C. Hydro's 27 or so hydroelectric facilities to try to maximize social as well as economic benefits, and to strike that balance. As a result of the completion of a number of water use plans, the water rental remissions are ramping up over the n e x t n u m b e r o f y e a r s . T h a t accounts for the $9.6 million increase that's in the budget for water rental remissions. S.

Simpson: We'll pursue this a little bit because I understand that there are some staff coming who can help us with this. The water rental remissions. Where do those dol- lars come from, and where do those dollars go? Hon. B. Penner: Water rental remissions represent the reduction in the value of energy that will be pro- duced as a result of the completion of the water use plans. [1550] I've just counted on my little cheat sheet that I carry around with me from time to time. If you don't have o n e , I r e c o m m e n d i t . I t ' s c o u r t e s y o f B . C . H y d r o .

A l l members of the House should carry one of these with them at all times. It's got some important facts and fig- ures, including how to convert megawatts to gigawatt hours, something I was doing yesterday. For today's purpose, it's interesting to look at. They list about 30 hydroelectric pr ojects that are owned and operated by B.C. Hydro. So me of those are small ones. There are a total of 23 water use plans either completed or underway. The difference between the total number of B.C. Hydro hydroelectric facilities and the 23 plans is that some of the plans incorporate more than one par- ticular facility.

For example, I believe that the Colum- bia water use plan includes, if I'm not mistaken, Mica, Revelstoke and the Keenleyside Dam. That one is a three-for-one effort. The water use planning process was initiated in 1998. It's been ongoing for a significant period of time, but we made quite a bit of progress over the last year with the completion of a number of the significant plans coming into effect. In most cases the result of the implementation of the plan is a reduced amount of electricity being produced because of an agreement that more water will be spilled at certain times of the year.

But in certain situations for some of the facilities, the completion of the plans has actually resulted in agreement that more energy can be produced overall on a net basis in a given year for a particular facility. Overall, the plans are resu lting in some additional constraints being placed on B.C. Hydro, and the water rental remission amount that's in the budget reflects the value of that decreased output of electricity. S. Simpson: This is an adjustment, then. This means that we're adjusting the return on the water li- cences because of the reduction in power that is being produced in the case of energy.

So there is a return from water licences. Five, te n, however many dollars a megawatt — and we can talk about that — comes back through the water licences. So this is an adjustment on that because there's been a reduction in the amount of energy. Would that be correct? Hon. B. Penner: I think I understood the member's question. My understanding is that B.C. Hydro pays wa- ter rentals to the province for water that is either stored or water, in addition to that….

There's a storage fee, plus they pay for water that they use to spin a turbine. [1555] If the water is spilled, that does not attract the same water rentals as if the water is first placed through a turbine. So as B.C. Hydro' s operations are constrained by the completion of water use plans — if that's the net effect, and I believe it is overall, with some exceptions — t h e n o n t h a t f r o n t , t h e y ' r e p a y i n g s l i g h t l y l e s s in terms of water rental remissions to the province, because they're putting less through their turbines instead of putting more over the top through the spill- ways.

7138 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2007 However, the economic loss to B.C. Hydro is much more significant than the little bit of money they're saving in the water rentals because of the economic value that that water would have otherwise generated by spinning a turbine and gene rating electricity. So the water rental remissions are geared towards compensat- ing B.C. Hydro for that forgone revenue that is result- ing from the completion of the water use plans. S. Simpson: I appreciate the answer. Maybe just to speculate a little bit forward….

Maybe the minister could clarify for me whether there would be impacts around some of the private power projects now, the run-of-the-river projects, where there are water licences and fees being paid. Is there the potential arou nd those run-of-the-river projects that there will be land use or water use plans in communities where run of the river may be private operators? Should that happen, are we going to see a program of remissions back to private operators when the public wants to make use of its rivers that may have been used for run of the river? Hon. B. Penner: I certainly don't envision that.

What you need to remember is that most of the water licences held by B.C. Hydro are very old and did not, at the time when they were first granted, take into ac- count some of the things that we think about today in terms of multiple use or impact on fisheries. That's what prompted the previous government in the late 1990s to embark on the water use planning process to see if there was another lens they should put on these water licences that had been granted, in effect, in perpetuity to B.C. Hydro.

The member should be aware that in about 2003 our government amended the Water Act so that water li- cences are no longer offered in perpetuity but, rather, have a maximum 40-year term when they're granted for power production purposes. So that's a significant change. Therefore, there is a sunset provision in water licences. In addition, the water licensi ng process today does take into account all of the things that are currently being con- sidered by B.C. Hydro and the water use planning process — that is to say, demand for multiple uses on watercourses. S. Simpson: In terms, though, of the water li- cences….

I know that this may fall under Energy, but I'm not sure of that. In terms of the run-of-the-river projects, the dollars that come off of that or responsibil- ity related to that for other multiple uses, is there in these agreements…? We do n't know what the agree- ments say. Is there something where there would need to be compensation back for environmental or recrea- tional use of some of those waterways — multiple use, as the minister spoke about?

The potential around ar- eas that are run of the river today, where the minister's folks come in and look at other uses or there are land use decisions… Are we going to be looking at some compensation from that re lated to Environment Minis- try activity? [1600] Hon. B. Penner: The first water licences for IPPs were granted in the early 1990s. At that time those li- cences tended to be in perpetuity because of the way the Water Act was written. We've changed that so now there's a maximum 40-year term for water licences granted for power production purposes.

In addition, we have become more stringent about what kinds of conditions are attached to those water licences, and I will give you a specific example. I'm advised that when a water licence was granted for one of the earlier independent power projects in the early '90s, there was no minimum flow requirement. Today that is an obligation, I believe — and the comptrolle

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0425pm-10
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0425pm 10
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	ca72d6526df5482b9dff9bdc47b63ff0a805014d

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