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May 1, 2001

37th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2001-May-01 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Tuesday 1 May 2001 Mardi 1 er mai 2001

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

EVENTS IN FLAMBOROUGH

AND ANCASTER

NOVATRONICS

NURSES

PROTECTION OF RESOURCES

PRISONER WORK PROGRAM

LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY

CRIME PREVENTION

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

FINANCE AND ECONOMIC AFFAIRS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

REMEDIES FOR ORGANIZED CRIME

AND OTHER UNLAWFUL

ACTIVITIES ACT, 2001 /

LOI DE 2001 SUR LES RECOURS

POUR CRIME ORGANISÉ

ET AUTRES ACTIVITÉS ILLÉGALES

LABOUR RELATIONS

AMENDMENT ACT, 2001 /

LOI DE 2001 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LES RELATIONS DE TRAVAIL

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

COMMUNITY SAFETY

EQUAL OPPORTUNITY

COMMUNITY SAFETY

EQUAL OPPORTUNITY

COMMUNITY SAFETY

ORAL QUESTIONS

GOLF TOURNAMENTS

CLASS SIZE

COMPETITIVE ELECTRICITY MARKET

PROPERTY TAXATION

CABINET OFFICE STAFFING

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

GOLF TOURNAMENTS

DEER DAMAGE

NURSES

PREMIER'S ATTENDANCE

YOUNG OFFENDERS

MEDICAL SCHOOL

COMMUNITY SAFETY

RAIL SERVICE

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

PETITIONS

SCHOOL FACILITIES

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

PROTECTION OF MINORS

WHITE BIRCH PLANT

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

PAPER SLUDGE

HOSPITAL RESTRUCTURING

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

HOSPITAL RESTRUCTURING

PROBATION AND PAROLE OFFICERS

EMPLOYMENT STANDARDS

HORSE RIDING SAFETY

SOCIAL AUDIT

UNANIMOUS CONSENT

ORDERS OF THE DAY

THRONE SPEECH DEBATE

Tuesday 1 May 2001 Mardi 1 er mai 2001

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

EVENTS IN FLAMBOROUGH

AND ANCASTER

Mr Ted McMeekin (Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Aldershot): Today is a very important day in the riding of Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Aldershot,

as we celebrate two wonderful events.

First, in the town of Flamborough, a town I know quite well, we will open the new Flamborough Family YMCA, a wonderful partnership project between the town of

Flamborough and the Hamilton-Burlington Y. The new family Y is a great example of a creative entrepreneurial partnership and a living testament that those who are committed to putting their

community first can accomplish together what neither could do apart.

As a snotty-nosed north end kid growing up through the YMCA who served as an overseas YMCA volunteer and later as YMCA president, I know first-hand the

difference the YMCA has made in building strong people, strong families and strong, healthy communities both in Flamborough and across Ontario.

After opening our family Y, I will have the pleasure of travelling to the historic town of Ancaster to help celebrate the life and work of the Ancaster Rotary

Club and three very special Ancaster Rotarians who will receive the Rotarians' highest honour, the Paul Harris Fellowship.

Notwithstanding whatever is wrong with Ontario, it's clear that what's right with Ontario is our people, people committed to the sharing, caring and daring that

it takes to build the strong and healthy communities we all cherish.

NOVATRONICS

Mr Bert Johnson (Perth-Middlesex): I rise in the Legislature today to recognize a company in my riding that recently watched its knowledge and

expertise go up in space. Novatronics of Canada is a Stratford company that designs, develops and manufactures products for the aerospace and defence industries. Novatronics made a significant

contribution to the new Canadarm2 that blasted into space two weeks ago on board the space shuttle Endeavour with Canadian astronaut Chris Hadfield. This Stratford company, established in 1955,

designed and built 12 pineapple-sized motor modules that allowed the Canadarm to move, bend and lock into place. These modules also helped the 1,600-kilogram arm move large and small objects with

pinpoint accuracy. Novatronics technology also allowed Canadarm2 to reach parts of the ever-expanding space station that couldn't be reached by the original Canadarm, now almost 20 years old.

I want to take this opportunity to commend Novatronics chairman Don McDougall and his 75 employees for their innovation, engineering expertise and product

development. Designing and building technology that is accepted and used by NASA is quite an accomplishment.

I also want to congratulate Novatronics on recently receiving an Ontario Global Traders Award for its 54% growth in exports over the last two years and for its

contributions to the global aerospace industry.

Thank you very much for congratulating Novatronics.

NURSES

Mr Richard Patten (Ottawa Centre): I rise today to pay tribute to Ontario's nurses. In recent months I've had the occasion to use Ontario's

health care system to a greater degree than perhaps I would have liked, but during this time I have been fortunate to have been in the care of many wonderful nurses who continue to perform their

essential services despite the many pressures that have been placed upon them.

Unfortunately, we are still hearing reports of labour shortages. The government's claim that they have rehired the nurses needed is deceiving. Nursing

organizations are reporting to us that 50% of jobs now contracted out are either part-time or casual. This is how the government has maintained a large headcount, but only half of our nurses are

full-time positions and the labour shortages remain a fact of life.

Many overworked nurses on the front lines are burned out. Many are leaving the province and indeed the country altogether.

The opportunity is there. A recent poll showed that over 78% of the nurses who had left Ontario would consider returning if conditions were right. The same poll

showed that the number one concern for nurses was the availability of full-time work.

I am happy to report to my colleagues that my experience with Ontario's nurses shows they continue to be outstanding and dedicated to their particular

profession. I think it's incumbent upon the government to immediately hire the needed nurses so that they can continue to perform their important work in our health care system.

PROTECTION OF RESOURCES

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): I know there are a lot of good citizens who think the Premier of this province is not a nice man, that in

fact he can be tough. Well, it's true. There are a whole lot of citizens who think that, but I have to tell you there are two people across the border who are not seen as nice men; in fact, they're

seen as bad, bad men.

When we think of Mike Harris as a bad wolf, big papa wolf is right around the corner, right around that border, and they're just waiting to come into Canada.

Papa Bush and Papa Cheney are coming. The citizens know these guys are oilmen and they want to come into the northern regions of Canada -- in their part of the world Alaska, but also our country

and our provinces -- and they want to suck the precious resources out of this country. So when we see Mike Harris and Klein ready to privatize, to sell off our public resources, sell off to the

special friends that you boys have, you ain't seen nothing yet, because Papa Bush and Papa Cheney are coming around and they're saying, "We're ready to suck away the energies from you." What are

Klein and people like Bush and the federal Liberal government saying? "At your orders, Papa Bush and Papa Cheney."

I've got to tell you, good citizens of Ontario, we need you. Someone's got to prevent this from happening. We need an active citizenry to prevent this, and I'm

urging you to fight back against it.

PRISONER WORK PROGRAM

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): Today I'm tabling a resolution asking the Legislature of Ontario to take immediate measures to expand the

prisoner work program to more highways and neighbourhoods across Ontario.

I believe the expansion of this type of program is beneficial to the community and to the prisoner. It gives an offender the chance to give back to society and

learn the value of a hard day's work. As well, offenders get a chance to keep their minds occupied with healthy, law-abiding ideas such as participating in the community. They are learning the

value that individual organizations are to their communities as well.

An example can be seen in my home riding of Simcoe North, where inmates at Project Turnaround have had the opportunity to work at the Huronia Museum, Coldwater

Mill and Fairgrounds and the Midland Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.

Working in these environments has given the young offenders an opportunity to expand their learning and a chance to give back to the community. Inmates assigned

to work on the prisoner work program are carefully screened, are low risk and do not pose a threat to the safety and security of the community. I believe in making sure those who commit crimes

repay their debt to society.

A couple of prisoner work programs that already exist are the prisoner work program, in co-operation with the Ministry of Transportation, which benefits the

environment at nominal cost to taxpayers and supports tourism. The program helps to create a clean, attractive landscape and gives offenders a chance to participate in a meaningful, constructive,

outdoor activity as a way of giving something back to the community. Last August, the Ministry of Correctional Services announced a partnership with the Toronto Police Service community response

unit to paint over walls that had been defaced by graffiti, as part of the graffiti eradication program.

I believe the prisoner work program is important for communities, as well as our offenders. I urge all members in this House to support and adopt this

resolution.

LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION

Mr Dwight Duncan (Windsor-St Clair): We in the official opposition welcome the opportunity today to question Premier Harris. Our understanding

is that he will be attending question period today. We are delighted, because we haven't had that opportunity since December.

You know what? In January, February and March, my leader, Dalton McGuinty, was travelling this province, meeting with people, doing radio shows and talking to

the average people in Ontario. Last week and the week before, Dalton McGuinty was doing interviews outside of this city. He was travelling this province and he was doing an effective job as Leader

of the Opposition and the next Premier of Ontario. That's what real leadership's all about.

Dalton McGuinty has put forward plans on a number of fronts: doctor shortages, emergency rooms, classroom size, peace in our schools. Is it any wonder the

Premier doesn't want to answer questions from Dalton McGuinty?

The real leadership in this province today is coming from Dalton McGuinty and the Ontario Liberals. It's coming in the way of rejecting the old ideas of the past

that never worked, rejecting the neo-Conservative agenda of a Premier who would rather be in Florida golfing than in Ontario answering tough questions.

This agenda's about accountability. The real accountability will be when Dalton McGuinty becomes Premier of Ontario in two and half long years and shows what

real leadership's about. It's about being accountable and being answerable to all the people of Ontario.

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

Mrs Julia Munro (York North): I rise today to inform the House that May is Sexual Assault Prevention Month in Ontario. This government wants to

stress that we will not tolerate violence against women. We are committed to preventing this violence. In this year alone, we are investing $140 million in programs and services that prevent and

address violence against women, more funding than any previous government has dedicated toward combatting this crime. Make no mistake: violence against women is a crime.

Our community partners are invaluable to our strategy to wipe out violence against women. In just these last few weeks, we have announced a total of $3.5 million

for community-based organizations and projects that are assisting women.

I invite all the members to take

part in the activities that sexual assault centres are planning throughout Ontario communities to mark this month. I know that

in my own community, the Women's Sexual Assault Centre of York Region will be conducting outreach and public education in the schools this month to increase awareness about sexual assault

prevention. This centre plays a very important role in our region, and I want to acknowledge the contribution they are making to addressing this issue.

Every woman has the right to live in safety. Together with our community partners, this government will continue to work toward that goal.

GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY

Mr George Smitherman (Toronto Centre-Rosedale): Recently in this House we were afforded a chance to hear from the government on the theme of

their throne speech: accountability. Yet we see in the days since then that the government will not walk the talk. They talk all about accountability, 11 references to it, in the government, and

yet I was there in London last week when the Premier had an opportunity to field a question from a real person, a gentleman who had a problem around the health care of his child, and the Premier

could no sooner jump in his Suburban and thrust the unsuspecting constituent into the hands, into the loving embrace, of the members from London.

This is one more example of a Premier who will not be held accountable for the actions of his government. It's in sharp contrast to the federal government, which

has met regularly since the beginning of the year, and a Prime Minister who, in addition to going to China, was in the House of Commons for almost 60% of the question periods, being held

accountable on difficult issues, while this Premier has run about the province, hiding from the accountability he likes to speak about.

We will have an opportunity shortly to hold him accountable, to ask him the difficult questions he has been avoiding these past days. We see that they continue

to talk about accountability, that they continue to raise it as a theme, but they will not stand in support of it.

I challenge them to defy their constituents and the desire of their constituents to hold the government accountable and support my private member's bill this

Thursday, which calls for 60% attendance of the Premier and cabinet ministers in question period.

CRIME PREVENTION

Mr Bart Maves (Niagara Falls): I am pleased to inform the Legislature that today the city of Niagara Falls will host the second annual Tourism

Safety and Crime Prevention Conference.

The focus of the conference is to discuss crime prevention issues in both the business and tourism sectors. Last year, and this year again, Detective Ray Wood,

director of the Orange county sheriff's office in Orlando, Florida, will facilitate the conference. Toronto Police Chief Julian Fantino will attend as lunch keynote speaker.

Topics that will be addressed at this year's conference include shoplifting, counterfeiting, fraud, computer crime fraud, ID fraud, crime prevention through

environmental design and the outlawing of motorcycle clubs.

In regard to the issue of biker gangs, in January 2001 this government urged the federal government to establish a mandatory minimum sentence for organized

criminal activity to help fight organized crime and biker gangs.

With a federal Liberal government that's soft on crime, it is impressive to see the province and local governments making public safety a priority.

I commend Niagara Falls city councillor Carolynn Ioannoni and the other organizers involved on the great effort that has been put into this event both last year

and again this year.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON

FINANCE AND ECONOMIC AFFAIRS

Mr Marcel Beaubien (Lambton-Kent-Middlesex): I beg leave to present a report on pre-budget consultations, 2001, un rapport sur les consultations

prébudgétaires pour l'année 2001, from the standing committee on finance and economic affairs, and move the adoption of its recommendations.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Does the member wish to make a brief statement?

Mr Beaubien: I would like to inform the House that the standing committee on finance and economic affairs held pre-budget meetings in Ottawa,

London, Thunder Bay and Toronto.

There is not much time to debate the issue, but I would like to recognize and thank the members, the staff and all the presenters.

With this, I move adjournment of the debate.

The Speaker: Mr Beaubien moves adjournment of the debate. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

REMEDIES FOR ORGANIZED CRIME

AND OTHER UNLAWFUL

ACTIVITIES ACT, 2001 /

LOI DE 2001 SUR LES RECOURS

POUR CRIME ORGANISÉ

ET AUTRES ACTIVITÉS ILLÉGALES

Mr Young moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 30,

An Act to provide civil remedies for organized crime and other unlawful activities / Projet de loi 30, Loi prévoyant des recours civils pour crime

organisé et autres activités illégales.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye."

All those opposed will please say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it. Carried.

The Attorney General for a short statement?

Hon David Young (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs): Mr Speaker, I'll make my statement during the ministers' statement

period.

LABOUR RELATIONS

AMENDMENT ACT, 2001 /

LOI DE 2001 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LES RELATIONS DE TRAVAIL

Ms Martel moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 31,

An Act to amend the Labour Relations Act, 1995 / Projet de loi 31, Loi modifiant la Loi de 1995 sur les relations de travail.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): It's fitting that I reintroduce this private member's bill today on International Workers' Day because the

purpose of the bill is to ban the use of scab labour in Ontario.

It restores those sections of the NDP government's Bill 40 that prevented employers from using other workers to replace those legitimately on strike or locked

out. It forces employers to sit down and bargain collective agreements because they know that no one else can take the jobs of those striking workers. It protects management and employees from

employer reprisal when they refuse the work of bargaining sector employees on strike or lockout.

I originally introduced this bill on behalf of Mine Mill/CAW workers in my community who were on strike almost seven months and who experienced the use of scab

labour by Falconbridge from day one of that strike. While that strike is over, this bill is needed by every other worker who is being undermined by their employer in the same way.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

COMMUNITY SAFETY

Hon David Young (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs): It gives me great pleasure to rise today in the House to address

the 19th step in our government's action plan to keep Ontario strong: enhancing community safety and victims' rights.

All Ontarians have a right to personal safety and security. Each person should be able to attend school and walk along the streets of this province without

fear. They should all be able to expect to be safe and secure in their homes, in their businesses and in the communities of this province.

Over the past five and a half years, the Mike Harris government has taken great strides to ensure that Ontarians can not only be safe but feel safe.

We know there is still a great deal more that need be done. That is why our government will introduce further measures to enhance victims' rights and keep

Ontario streets and Ontario communities safe from crime. We do this fundamentally to enhance the personal safety and security of the people of this province.

As a government, we are also aware of the broader benefits that come from safe communities and what they offer to economic growth and our quality of life.

Alongside fiscal responsibility and accountability, our government's priority is economic growth and the creation of jobs. Our government's policies have led

to more than 822,000 net new jobs. More than 578,000 people have escaped welfare. And in the last two years, Ontario's economy has outperformed that of any other nation in the G7.

Businesses are expanding and they are fuelling greater investment throughout this province. But business people want their employees to be safe. They want to

lock the door of their premises at night and know that all will be as they left it the next morning. Businesses must feel safe and secure in their daily operations in order to prosper and grow.

Business growth and the resulting economic development is absolutely vital to Ontario's continued success, for it is through its strong economy and new jobs

that Ontarians gain hope, opportunity and prosperity. It is through a strong economy that government can support the services that mean so much to the people of this great province, like quality

health care and excellence in education.

A safe Ontario is indeed a strong, growing and competitive Ontario. Our government will continue to make the tough decisions needed to keep this province on

the right track. We will make the right choices to keep our communities, our streets, our people safe.

We will also ensure that victims' rights are respected throughout. That is why my first announcement today is that the government will introduce legislation to

help protect children caught in the misery of prostitution.

Our children are our future. Our responsibility includes caring for them and helping them grow into healthy, contributing adults. Protecting them from danger

is our obligation. There should be no doubt that protecting them from sexual exploitation must be a priority. We all react with horror when we hear or read of children being forced into

prostitution, some as young as age 12. These young people are the victims of pimps, the victims of johns and other sexual predators who are engaging in a form of child sexual abuse. We must help

them and we will help them.

Ontario's police and child care workers need more tools. They have said so. They need more tools to help these sexually exploited children and to protect them

from further victimization. Through legislation, our government intends to provide these tools. We intend to help those most vulnerable begin a new life and protect them from the predators I

mentioned earlier. Our government will always, always move to protect and to nurture the young people of this province.

Our government also intends to help victims of organized crime. My second announcement today: the government will introduce 21st-century solutions, ranging

from civil tools to vigorous crown prosecutions, to respond to the modern challenges presented by organized crime.

Organized crime is indeed a significant problem. It is estimated that it costs the Canadian economy between $5 billion and $9 billion -- that's billion dollars

-- each and every year. And organized crime is becoming increasingly sophisticated, using new technologies and new strategies to take advantage of every opportunity they can to make more and more

money illegally.

Every day, crime victimizes honest, hard-working people across this province. That victimization takes place directly, by defrauding them of their hard-earned

money, and indirectly, through higher consumer prices and service fees. It jeopardizes the safety and economic security of this great province. We need 21st-century solutions to fight it.

Already our government has allocated $4 million for the strategic deployment of specialized police forces and dedicated legal resources to focus on organized

crime. Earlier today I introduced legislation that, if passed by this Legislature, would disrupt these organizations and return their unlawful profits to the very people they have victimized

whenever possible. And we plan to create a strike force of investigators, civil lawyers and forensic accountants to ensure that these civil cases are vigorously pursued in court.

Our government aims to help people who have been victimized by organized crime and any other unlawful activity. We aim to take the profit out of crime and to

keep Ontario's communities safe.

Another criminal activity that is of great concern to this government -- and it's particularly disturbing, I'm sure, to all members in this Legislature -- is

the rise in violent youth crime. Our government has consistently expressed a strong concern about Ottawa's need to create young offender legislation that provides meaningful consequences for

violent crimes. We do not, and I emphasize "do not," believe that the reintroduced federal legislation is adequate. In fact, it is woefully inadequate to deter violent youth crime or hold young

people accountable for their conduct.

With this concern in mind, today I am announcing that the Crime Control Commission will consult on a variety of topics, including how sentencing and release

policies affect repeat offenders, the impact of the federal young offenders law, opportunities to reduce crime through early intervention and finally, Mr Speaker, plans to address the very, very

real concern that landlords and tenants have when they discover that a neighbouring tenant is engaged in illegal drug activities on the premises. We recognize the seriousness of this matter. I note

that there is already an eviction process in place for drug dealers, but we are going to move to streamline the eviction of tenants who are conducting illegal drug activities. We intend to make

that process even faster. All tenants should know that they are safe within their own homes.

Mr Speaker, these actions that I have announced today and that my colleagues will announce in a few moments will help ensure that victims' rights are enhanced

throughout this province. They will help ensure that Ontario's streets and communities are safe. Our government will work hard toward a safe and prosperous Ontario for the benefit of all of the

people in this great province.

Hon David Turnbull (Solicitor General): I am pleased to join my colleagues the Attorney General, the Minister of Correctional Services and the

Minister of Citizenship in outlining some of the actions the Mike Harris government is taking to ensure safe streets and safe communities.

Ontario families have a right to feel safe and secure in their communities. Since 1995 our government has made it clear where we stand. We're putting more

police on the streets, we've increased support for victims of crime and we're cracking down on criminals. Let me remind you of some of the actions the Ministry of the Solicitor General has taken to

ensure safe communities.

To make our streets safer, we have increased penalties for criminals who endanger the public by recklessly fleeing police.

To remove dangerous weapons from the streets and reduce confrontations with police, we've banned the sale of convertible starter pistols and placed strict

limitations on the purchase, sale and transfer of imitation firearms.

To increase police visibility in the community, we've introduced the community policing partnership program. Under this program, we have allocated funding for

1,000 net new front-line police officers in communities right across Ontario.

Last week, to improve community safety and protect some of the most vulnerable members of society, we proclaimed Christopher's Law, creating Canada's first and

only sex offender registry.

There are many more examples that I could cite: the work of the Ontario Provincial Police in combatting organized crime and outlaw biker gangs; or the office

of the fire marshal's efforts to promote home fire safety; or Emergency Measures Ontario and its work in helping communities with disaster planning and preparation.

We've made significant progress but there's much more to be done. That's why today I am pleased to announce that we are meeting the commitments made in the

throne speech and moving forward with two important initiatives.

In Ontario, we believe that young people should respect the law and the rights of others. We know the actions of violent young offenders have profound and

long-lasting consequences for victims, families and communities. That's why we introduced strict discipline programs for young offenders. In Ontario, young people who break the law get a sharp

lesson in the consequences, and we're turning many lives around as a result. Even though our positive efforts dealing with youth crime have been undercut by the inaction of the federal government,

we are determined to do what we can at the provincial level to create safer communities and deter crimes committed by young people. That's why the government will implement a comprehensive youth

justice strategy to help turn young offenders into responsible, law-abiding citizens.

Domestic violence is not tolerated in Ontario. All too often domestic violence against past or present partners escalates to deadly levels. To counter this, we

have taken important action by creating the largest domestic violence court program of its kind in Canada, and we've expanded assistance to domestic violence victims and programs. We need to

continue these efforts.

As we said in the Blueprint, victims and support workers in women's shelters need instant access to information about court dates. As well, support workers in

women's shelters should be able to take a victim impact statement, or a record of a victim's concerns for their safety, and send it instantaneously into a prosecutor's case file. When bail

conditions and restraining orders are imposed on domestic violence offenders, every police service in Ontario should have this information at their fingertips. To achieve these improvements, the

government will link all shelters and rape crisis centres to the information technology of Ontario's justice system.

We should be able to walk in our neighbourhoods, live in our homes and send our children to school free from the fear of criminals.

With the initiatives announced today by my colleagues and I, we're continuing to make community safety a top priority. We are demonstrating our commitment to

ensuring that public safety and the rights of law-abiding citizens come first.

Hon Rob Sampson (Minister of Correctional Services): Community safety is critical to our lives here in Ontario, and it's a critical component

of our 21-step action plan. The Ministry of Correctional Services has begun the challenging process of replacing a system that was for years neglected by previous governments. Through our

infrastructure renewal program, we are replacing aging jails, some of which were built before this country became a country, with new ultra-modern institutions that will offer better results and

better safety and security for the public and for the staff who are working in them.

We have implemented a zero tolerance policy for violence against correctional staff, a prisoner work program and the very successful Camp Turnaround, that has

shown that strict discipline works.

We have listened to the people of Ontario who want safe streets and safe communities. We must now build upon these results so that Ontario can stay the right

and safe course that it's now on.

Today I am announcing that the successful strict discipline program will be extended to adult offenders and young offenders. Our made-in-Ontario program works,

and we must do more of it.

I'm also pleased to announce that we will introduce legislation that will permit victims to participate in parole hearings for those who have wronged them. The

people of Ontario have consistently told us that there must be a better balance between the rights of victims and those who offend them. Victims have repeatedly asked for greater participation in

the parole process so that there is a clear understanding of not only the effect of the crime on their lives, but also their fears and concerns about the release of those who have harmed them. It's

clear, and I am certain everyone in this House will agree, that a victim's suffering does not end on the day that a crime is committed.

Accountability, growth and fiscal responsibility -- together, these are the hallmarks of this government. As such, our ministry will continue to embrace these

responsibilities as we meet the challenges of transforming a correctional system that has been ignored by previous governments. We will make the tough decisions, the right-thing-to-do decisions, in

order to better protect and serve the citizens of Ontario. They have that right, and we intend to respect it.

EQUAL OPPORTUNITY

Hon Cameron Jackson (Minister of Citizenship, minister responsible for seniors): I'm pleased today to rise in support of this government's

efforts to keep Ontario on a prosperous course. Building prosperity is all about seizing opportunity. A society that cherishes and promotes equal access to opportunity for its citizens is a society

that will ultimately prosper.

Our government has a strong record of supporting measures that improve opportunities for people in this province. Since 1995, our government has introduced

more than $800 million worth of new programs and spent close to $6 billion each year to expand opportunities for people with disabilities. We intend to sustain that effort.

The foundation for equal opportunity in this province is the Ontario Human Rights Code. But effective safeguarding of our right to live free from

discrimination requires the presence of an effective rights guardian.

When this government was first elected six years ago, the Ontario Human Rights Commission was not an effective guardian. Waiting lists were too long and people

waited for their outcomes. This government recognized the problem and committed to improving effective enforcement of the code. As a result, the Ontario Human Rights Commission has made significant

changes, among them a new state-of-the-art case management system, a centralized, one-window service for inquiry and intake and a highly successful mediation service, improvements that are yielding

excellent, expedient results. In 1995, when this government was elected, the average age of an open case was 15 months. Today it is less than 10.

To further remedy the situation, we appointed a new chair of the commission, with a mandate to overcome these issues and move the commission toward a new level

of excellence in the service of the people of Ontario. I am proud to report that our efforts have been successful. The caseload is in hand, resolutions are being reached in a more timely fashion

and the commission is able to turn more of its resources to pursuing systemic issues of discrimination in Ontario. The system is working better all the time.

The Ontario Human Rights Commission is a strong foundation for equal opportunity in Ontario and sets one of the highest standards in all of Canada. But we know

there is much more that we can be doing. The government recognizes that the Ontario Human Rights Commission plays a vital and ongoing role in protecting the rights of many in our society, including

Ontarians living with disabilities. The government will continue to support the commission's efforts to ensure fair treatment and equal access to opportunity for citizens with disabilities and

others whose rights it protects. As I said, the code is the foundation of equal opportunity in Ontario. Strengthening the code therefore will allow us to build upon the foundation to protect the

rights and the dignity of society's most vulnerable members.

The chair of the Ontario Human Rights Commission has proposed legislative changes that will allow human rights to be protected more effectively and more

efficiently. Based on a review of his recommendations, amendments to the Ontario Human Rights Code will be placed before the House.

In March 1999, as Minister of Long-Term Care with responsibility for seniors, I was pleased to make two announcements regarding the tragic issue of elder

abuse. The first was our government's commitment to developing a comprehensive provincial strategy to combat elder abuse. The second was the formation of a round table to help us develop this

leading-edge strategy.

When I recently took on responsibilities for seniors again as Minister of Citizenship, I asked the round table to finalize its work immediately. Today I am

pleased to report the findings are complete.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order. There are responses but I remind the other side we'll go right to zero for you as well then.

COMMUNITY SAFETY

Mr Michael Bryant (St Paul's): A tired old reannouncement from a tired old government with no new ideas that's out of gas. Did you prorogue

the House, have a cabinet shuffle and kill the bills so that new ministers can introduce old bills? Is that the point of this entire exercise?

I thought we were going to get something new today. "The government will introduce legislation to protect children caught in the misery of prostitution." Rick

Bartolucci introduced those bills three years ago.

The government's going to reintroduce, reannounce and then kill the bill and reintroduce the organized crime bill. How many times can this government bring

this bill back to the Legislature after killing it?

Is there anything from the Office for Victims of Crime in this statement, anything about the 71 recommendations in A Voice for Victims, victims of crime?

Anything in this? No. Provincial victim service standards for victims: are we finally going to get them in Ontario? No. Do they at least proclaim the victims' rights amendment act so the office for

victims' rights can use their statutory powers? No, didn't do that. Did they at least proclaim the Domestic Violence Protection Act so that the small minority of victims of domestic violence could

in fact avail themselves of the few provisions in there? No, they didn't do that. Are they going to introduce the Baldwin committee recommendations so that victims of domestic violence can actually

get some service from this government? No. Are victims of date rape in this province finally going to get the ability to go to a hospital or to their doctor and find out whether or not they've had

a date rape drug slipped into their body? No. Anything about the five-point plan to recoup the cost of gun violence in the province of Ontario? No. Are we going to join the five other provinces in

this country which already have mandatory victims' rights legislation? No.

When it comes to victims' rights, this government is all talk, all prop, all reannouncement and no action.

EQUAL OPPORTUNITY

Mr Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): I'm amazed that this minister can keep a straight face while reading this document. For six years

now, this government has committed to an ODA. It keeps giving lip service. The Ontario Human Rights Commission is not even close to an ODA. The human rights commission can deal with one complaint

at a time. There are 1.5 million Ontarians with disabilities. Do the math. There is no way the human rights commission can even begin to address the concerns.

Live up to your commitment. Live up to your promise. Do an ODA in place by November 23. Take some time. There are others in your party, Minister, who are out

of the Legislature for days and months. Take some of your time and meet and consult with the Ontarians with disabilities. Live up to your commitment and your promise that all citizens in Ontario

will be equal. No more smoke and mirrors; we need a meaningful, effective act in place now, as you voted for and your party committed to.

COMMUNITY SAFETY

Mr Dave Levac (Brant): The Minister of Correctional Services wants us to believe that something new is happening. This minister who talks the

talk about rehabilitation programs has yet to plan for all of these new rehabilitation programs.

He is closing Burtch Correctional Centre in Brant, which was one of the homes of the most extensive and successful rehabilitation programs in the province; as

a matter of fact, so much so that in 1988 it was deemed the best program in Ontario, and he is closing it. Why? His government is gutting it because they need to make room for private enterprise in

correctional services. They're going to privatize these programs for rehabilitative services that have been the best in the province and, as a matter of fact, were watched across the world.

Let's find out about the boot camps. Are they successful? Absolutely not. Three studies -- one in the United States Congress, one an international study and

one in the city of Toronto -- said that boot camps were the number one reason why failure took place in dealing with youth justice issues.

Let me tell you something else about boot camps. This is coming from the minister who, for no good reason, as told by the Provincial Auditor, hands over

$400,000 extra to hold up Camp Run Amok and make it successful, along with the fact that another $25,000 was found by the auditor -- the government didn't even know there were bills to be paid and

had to pay an extra $25,000. So much for private enterprise being able to run our system.

I need to finish off with one point, to make an announcement. The people of Ontario are going to be on the hook for hundreds, and maybe millions, of dollars

because under this particular government, inmates charged with serious offences, who were spending weekends in jail, went home and served their sentences in their living rooms because they closed

the beds in our province's jails.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): The member's time is up.

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): Clearly, New Democrats are going to enthusiastically support any and all efforts that meaningfully and

effectively combat crime, but I want to make it quite clear, as we did during committee hearings on this very same bill that was introduced today, that the fight against crime does not include an

attack on innocent people here in Ontario.

This government's legislation, which is simply a rewrite of the legislation they killed, of their own accord, as a result of proroguing, is so broad in scope

and has such a low standard of proof for what is effectively the proof of criminal offences that it runs the risk of putting innocent Ontarians at great risk and at peril of being subjected to

investigation and to confiscation and forfeiture of their property.

New Democrats will not participate in the creation of the foundation of what many, in response to this very legislation, have called the cornerstone of a

police state. Let us make that very clear, and we are unequivocal in that regard.

We were there when the government wanted to pass Christopher's Law. In fact, we moved amendments. New Democrats wanted to amend Christopher's Law to make it

tougher, to make it broader in scope, to ensure that every sexual offender in this province -- adult and young offender -- was included on that registry. The government defeated those amendments.

New Democrats wanted to make Christopher's Law more effective; the government dug in its heels and said no.

New Democrats wanted to make the laws that involve the impounding and seizure of cars of suspended drunk drivers tougher and more meaningful. We passed

amendments in committee to make that law more effective and more meaningful. The government dug in its heels and said no to making that law tougher.

New Democrats question this government's seriousness and sincerity when it comes to really fighting crime. This government does not have much of a track

record. In fact, when its corporate environmental offender friends commit crimes, this government has shown incredible largesse. We heard remarkable testimony from one of the government's own

provincial environmental ministry investigators who testified last week at the Walkerton inquiry that effective in 1995, investigators in the Ministry of the Environment were told effectively

"Hands off" when it comes to the corporate environmental offenders, the corporate environmental criminals, the buddies of Harris and this government.

This government wants to talk a tough game on crime and on fighting crime. When it comes down to the real offenders and real measures, it wants to turn an

equally blind eye.

This government wants to talk about resolving outstanding issues. We'll raise once again your Victims' Bill of Rights, which was torn to shreds by Mr Justice

Day here in the province of Ontario, who made it very clear that your Victims' Bill of Rights contains no rights and that in fact it would have to be rewritten. The Premier of this province

promised before the last election that it would be rewritten. Another promise made, another promise broken, because we've survived now with but the remnants of a Victims' Bill of Rights that has no

teeth, that has absolutely no enforceability.

You want to make women safer in this province, Premier? I tell you right now, New Democrats call for an immediate expansion of the assaulted women's hotline so

that every woman in Ontario has access to that hotline. You're going to make women safer by doing that, not by your platitudes here in this Legislature. You want to make women safer and make women

feel safer in this province? You want to protect women from violent assault and from murders here in Ontario? Then give effect to the cross-sectoral strategy you've been presented with now in

excess of not only months but years, which you've ignored and showed nothing but disdain for.

You want women to feel safer and you want women to be safer here in Ontario? You want to protect women from violent and vicious assault and from murders? Then

restore the support for shelters and for second-stage housing here in Ontario.

You talk a big game about law and order and protecting the most vulnerable people in this province. After five years you still couldn't clean up the mess you

made of the Family Responsibility Office, the family support plan that has left women and kids hungry year after year since your destruction of the nine regional offices in 1996. Rather than solve

the problem, you've acknowledged your disinterest in addressing the problem by the Ministry of the Attorney General sloughing that off to the Ministry of Community and Social Services, where

there'll be no relief for those women and children who are victims, not of criminals outside this Legislature but victims of this government.

This government better start looking at some of the real perpetrators of crime. I tell you, Premier, you and your colleagues are as guilty and as culpable as

any biker, as any mobster, could be.

Mr Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I wish to seek unanimous consent of the House to give the member for

Timiskaming-Cochrane an opportunity to apologize to the House for the regrettable statement he made yesterday afternoon during members' statements.

The Speaker: People will know the member can stand on his own point of order. I will say I have had the chance to review the transcript. While

we don't go back a day later, I can tell you that if I had heard the comment, I would have made him withdraw it, as I did earlier in his statement.

As you know, we have a lot of school kids who come here and listen. I'm going to be very quick to jump up on comments that are out of order,. The member can

stand up on his own point of order, if he wishes to withdraw it, but in future I will be very quick and listen very intently, as will the table, because as you know, sometimes you're listening to

the statement or the question and someone else will yell something out. Between all of us, we're going to be able to catch people.

I can say this very clearly: we're not going to let this place degenerate. I'm going to move very quickly. I thank the member for his point of order.

Mr Kormos: On a point of privilege, Mr Speaker: I served you notice of my intention to rise on a point of privilege. I gave you the details of

that point of privilege. I spoke specifically about the PC logo being advertised on doorways and windows in this building, the stylized, commercial, Conservative Party logo attached to windows,

specifically in the north wing entrance -- very partisan advertising.

I also raised with you, Mr Speaker, the matter of the lanyards being used, I'm told by Progressive Conservative political staff, which are not the Legislative

Assembly issue lanyards, but indeed are lanyards that display and advertise not only the PC logo, but the PC Web site. It's our submission, as New Democrats here, that that sort of partisan

utilization of Legislative Assembly property and Legislative Assembly turf is contrary, that partisan propaganda here in the building is contrary to the oft-repeated guidelines issued by you and

previous Speakers.

The Speaker: To the member, I received the point of privilege and I had a chance to read it. The member has not made out a prima facie case of

contempt. However, I'm pleased to tell him that we have removed the crests he talks about.

Interjection.

The Speaker: Yes, it has been removed. Also, we will be looking at the circumstances surrounding the medallions.

I thank him for bringing the case to me. While it didn't relate to a prima facie contempt in here, it did in fact trouble me very much, so we have copies of

what was left of the crest here and they have been removed. I thank the member for his attention.

The member for Timiskaming-Cochrane.

Mr David Ramsay (Timiskaming-Cochrane): Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I appreciate the opportunity the government member has allowed me. I

am going to address that very issue in a question I'm going to pose to the Premier in question period.

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Education, Government House Leader): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: My colleague did ask for unanimous consent

for the member to actually apologize for the comments, not ask a question of the Premier --

The Speaker: No. On a point of order, what I ruled is he can get up on his own to do that, and that's what the ruling is going to be.

Mr Dwight Duncan (Windsor-St Clair): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I seek unanimous consent of the House to allow the Premier to apologize

for not attending question period for 133 days.

Interjections.

The Speaker: OK, folks, if you want to fool around, I'm going to act very quickly. We're not going to put up with that baloney in here today.

I'm going to move very quickly.

The member for Durham on a point of order.

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): Mr Speaker, I do respect that. I rose yesterday on a point of order addressing the unacceptable parliamentary

language from the member from Cochrane --

The Speaker: Member take his seat. I have ruled on that. Any member can come up and correct the record. I've ruled on that. Very simply, had I

heard it, he would have been made to withdraw it. I didn't hear it at the time. The ruling is very clear. The member says he is going to address it, and that's my ruling. That's my ruling. No more

point of order from the member for Durham. Take your seat. That's the ruling.

ORAL QUESTIONS

GOLF TOURNAMENTS

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Premier. We on this side of the House believe it is our job to look out

for the interests of our working families and to help them with the challenges that are simply too big for them to tackle on their own.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Would the member take his seat. Stop the clock. Minister of Labour, please withdraw that comment. I did hear it.

You're close enough that I did hear that one. Please withdraw it.

Hon Chris Stockwell (Minister of Labour): I'll withdraw it. He was slandering people, is what I said.

The Speaker: You cannot say that in here. I'm asking you to withdraw it.

Hon Mr Stockwell: I withdraw, Mr Speaker.

The Speaker: Thank you very much. I again tell you, there will be nobody left in here if we start up with that baloney in here. We're not

going to turn this place into a circus.

The leader of the official opposition.

Mr McGuinty: Premier, we believe we should be looking out for the interests of our working families. You clearly believe that you should be

looking out for the interests of your friends.

We now know that your friends set up a shell company so they could obtain taxpayers' money. They used that money to set up golf tournaments for profit, and you

haven't done a thing about it. In fact, you haven't even said that it's wrong. Premier, why do you continue to look after your friends and ignore the interests of Ontario's hard-working

families?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): First of all, let me say that I think it is a sad day in the province of Ontario when entrepreneurs --

outstanding, respected businesspeople from all across northern Ontario who follow all the rules -- are subjected to criticism just because they live in northern Ontario or they live in North Bay or

they happen to know the local MPP or they happen to know the Premier of the province of Ontario.

Let me just say that the northern Ontario heritage fund, when we took office, used to fund golf courses directly. I can recall a $140,000 grant for the

Haileybury Golf Club and a $115,000 grant to the New Liskeard Golf Club, both in the riding of the member who took exception yesterday to government money going into golf. We stopped the funding

directly to either non-profit or for-profit golf courses.

Mr McGuinty: Premier, you can characterize this whatever way you want, but what's really important is how Ontario's working families see it.

They see it as you, one more time, looking out for the interests of your friends and ignoring their unmet needs. That's how they see it.

Golf is about putting together a foursome and trying to score. That is not what government is all about. Government is about looking out for the needs of

Ontario's hard-working families.

Your friends have tricked the people of Ontario out of hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars. They claim they had a non-profit company when that was really

just a front for a profit-making scheme. You haven't shut this down, Premier. You haven't even said this was wrong. So I ask you again, why do you look out for your friends and ignore the needs of

our hard-working families?

Hon Mr Harris: As I indicated, we stopped the direct grants to businesses or ski hills or golf courses that the former government used to be

involved in, and we set up the northern Ontario heritage fund, by people in the north, to set their own criteria, to set their own mandate. Part of that is promotion of tourism. Part of that is

promotion of events that will get national or international attention: for example, $100,000 from the heritage fund for the Scott Tournament of Hearts in Sudbury; for example, just under $100,000

to promote the first ever Ontario Open championship in Sault Ste Marie.

Now, I didn't hear any complaints from the members of either party when the northern Ontario heritage fund promoted these events for Sault Ste Marie and

Sudbury. For some reason or other, when the event moved to North Bay -- or now, this year, as it'll be in Thunder Bay, I presume Thunder Bay will be OK; Sudbury will be OK in 2002.

The fact of the matter is that the heritage fund is mandated by people in the north. This project followed all the rules and it has led --

The Speaker: Order. The Premier's time is up. Final supplementary.

Mr McGuinty: Premier, nobody here is talking about the Scott Tournament of Hearts. We're talking about your friends. We're talking about a

shell corporation. We're talking about using taxpayer dollars for for-profit purposes. That's what we're talking about here.

This is wrong, Premier. It's wrong to continually put the interests of your friends ahead of the needs of our working families, and yet you do it time and time

again. When your friends want you to be there for sweetheart land deals or to run roughshod over environmental regulations or when you yourself wanted a 42% pay hike, you were there in a flash. But

you're not there, Premier, you're not there for our working families. You're not there for our working families who are sick and tired of the chaos in our schools, who are frightened by the damage

you've caused to their health care and who are angry that you refuse to protect their air and their water.

Once more, Premier, why is it you devote so much of your time and so much of your energy to looking out for the interests of your friends and you continually

ignore the needs of our working families?

Hon Mr Harris: I don't know why the Liberal Party is so against northern Ontario, why it's so against northern Ontario being able to broaden

its image. I don't know why you think that quality of life is only available in southern Ontario.

Here is a goal in Ontario: to capitalize on the fastest-growing sport that there is, quite frankly, in North America. With all our 800 golf courses, with the

hundreds of millions of dollars invested, we're not getting the same advantage that PEI is or Nova Scotia is as a destination. The northern Ontario heritage fund, with very modest amounts of money,

far less than you used to give directly to the golf courses and other companies in northern Ontario, decided to promote golf in northern Ontario as an attraction, as a destination, as a tourism

attraction, as a promotion. That was their decision and they've made far better investments than you people did with all the money you gave away.

CLASS SIZE

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Premier. The only promotion that's going on in northern Ontario these

days, Premier, is the promotion of your friends by you. While you've been playing golf in Florida and while your playing partners have been getting the taxpayers to pick up the tab for their greens

fees, we on this side of the House have been working very hard on behalf of Ontario's working families. In fact, we put forward a number of positive ideas to help out our working families.

I'm challenging you today, Premier, to take just one of those ideas and make it happen now. We believe that there should be a real cap on class sizes in the

early grades. We believe that there should be no more than 20 students from JK through to grade 3.

Premier, will you do that or will you continue to put the interests of your friends ahead of the interests of our working families?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): I'd ask the Minister of Education to respond, Mr Speaker.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Stop the clock. The government House leader.

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Education, Government House Leader): Mr Speaker, through you to the honourable member re the question --

The Speaker: I apologize. I had the clock stopped. I thought you were doing a point of order. That was my fault. Go ahead, government House

leader.

Hon Mrs Ecker: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. If the honourable members across the way would be quiet, I could answer the question.

The Leader of the Opposition has put forward what he calls his plan, but let's be very clear what it is. Let's be very clear. He is talking about watering down

the strict high standards in our curriculum. He is talking about not testing students to make sure they can actually learn the new curriculum.

In the legislation his party is opposing, he's talking about taking away the very protections that make sure school boards are meeting class size rules,

protecting special education money, protecting classroom money. His party has taken a position against that. That's not the plan for our students in this province.

Mr McGuinty: It's the first time I've seen a golf pro ask the caddy to take a shot for him.

The Speaker: Stop the clock. Government House leader.

Hon Mrs Ecker: With respect, I would like to ask the Leader of the Opposition to withdraw personal comments --

Interjections.

The Speaker: Stop the clock. Member for Toronto Centre-Rosedale, last warning. You're out of here if you do that again. We're going to pick

out people and we're going to throw them out. If you want to carry on like that, you'll all be gone. Toronto Centre-Rosedale, last warning today for you.

Was that answering the question or a point of order?

Hon Mrs Ecker: It's a point of personal privilege, Mr Speaker.

The Speaker: You've got the labour minister behind you shouting about being out of order, and so I looked over there. I assumed that's why

you're up. Are you answering the question or is this a point of order?

Hon Mrs Ecker: It's a point of personal privilege, Mr Speaker.

The Speaker: Point of personal privilege, government House leader.

Hon Mrs Ecker: Mr Speaker, I was just asking the honourable member to withdraw a comment that I found personally offensive.

The Speaker: He did not say as the Minister of Labour did, where he accused somebody of slandering. You know what is parliamentary in here.

What he did here was just make a reference.

The leader of the official opposition for the continuation of the question.

Mr McGuinty: Premier, welcome back to the job. Now, do your job and take my question.

We know, Premier, that your friends don't support my plan. They don't want us to take just 10 cents out of every dollar you've committed to tax cuts and they

don't want us to invest that in making smaller classes so our children can get better learning and then later on get the best jobs. Why is it that you continue to put the interests of your friends

ahead of the needs of our working families?

Hon Mrs Ecker: I would like to ask the honourable member why he is putting the interests of the teacher unions above the interests of kids.

His plan is saying, "Let's solve all of our problems by decreasing the teacher workload," by increasing the student workload yet again to decrease the teacher workload. Yes, we need resolutions to

challenges. That is not helping our students.

Mr McGuinty: Working families now get it. They understand. They know you're not looking out for their interests and that you're very focused

on the interests of the well-connected, the wealthy few and your own friends. We know you're not working on behalf of working families. Everybody now knows you're not working on behalf of working

families. Instead, you're working on behalf of your special friends.

If that is not true, Premier, if you disagree with any of those statements, then prove it here and now. Put a real cap on class sizes for our children from JK

through grade 3, kids between the ages of four and eight years of age. Take just one dime out of every dollar that you want to commit to more tax cuts to benefit your wealthy friends and the

well-connected and put that into something that will benefit our working families and make sure our kids get a better job. Will you do that, Premier, or will you continue to go to bat for your

wealthy and well-connected friends?

Hon Mrs Ecker: You know, it's really wonderful. You put these wonderful little things there. You think you just wave a magic wand and they all

work. Putting a cap on class size -- go out and talk to the people in the sector, because do you know what that will do? First of all, it's going to cost more money than I've seen you ask -- you

have no idea where you're going to get the money for this. Secondly, what this will do in high-growth communities is increase the number of portables. In case he hasn't visited, one of the

challenges your government and the previous NDP government left this government was trying to keep up with growth of students in our communities. Because of the billions of dollars we have put into

the education system, we are actually seeing for the first time a decrease in portables; we're seeing our students housed in schools for the first time --

Interjections.

The Speaker: Would the Minister of Education take a seat. Member for Windsor West, this is your last warning too. I was shouting "Order" and

you couldn't even hear me or see me, you were shouting so much. This is your last warning as well.

New question.

COMPETITIVE ELECTRICITY MARKET

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. Yesterday the American Vice-President, Dick Cheney, came to town and

he told us about the real electrical energy strategy for North America. He was very blunt. He said that they need to build at least one new electrical power plant a week for the next 20 years, a

43% increase in electrical demand. We know there's no way they'll be able to do that, so they'll have to get the power from somewhere else. Now your government has said that you're prepared to sell

off Ontario's electrical system.

Premier, it's pretty clear that if you privatize our system of hydroelectricity in this province, the private companies will be only too happy to buy it up,

but they'll want to sell the power in the United States. Whose side are you on? Are you going to maintain a public system so that Ontario people can benefit, or are you going to privatize it so

that the electricity can be sold in the United States? Which is it?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): Certainly first and foremost our concern is that we have guaranteed access here in the province of Ontario,

not only to affordable but also an adequate supply of electricity. So every initiative we've taken has been to ensure that and encourage that now and into the future.

It's interesting that you mention Mr Cheney, and it's an interesting debate. The Prime Minister of Canada and I have actually talked about this, because he

told me that in his meetings with the President of the United States they felt there were great opportunities for more generation, maybe more nuclear plants, more Candu reactors here in Canada,

here in Ontario, and if the federal government was interested, would the provincial government be interested, guaranteeing that obviously we'd look after Canadians' needs first, in then perhaps

building surplus power -- jobs and investment here -- to be able to sell to the United States. That's something I think we should look at, and I hope you would support it.

Mr Hampton: Premier, first of all there is no guarantee. When you start selling off those electrical generating stations, they will want to

sell the power where they can get the highest price. For you to then come along and say, "We want you to sell it in Ontario" -- that's exactly what California tried to do; it didn't work once it

was privatized and deregulated.

Your energy minister says, "There aren't the transmission lines." Mr Cheney was very clear about that: they will build the transmission lines to get our

electricity.

They're already paying 123% more in New York now. The choice will be this: once it's privatized and the private companies want to sell it in the United States,

Ontario consumers, Ontario industry, will either have to pay double and triple the rates for electricity, or we'll watch our electricity being exported.

Premier, don't you get it? This is critical for Ontario's economy. Electricity makes the new economy run. Are you going to sell it out, or are you going to

stand for --

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): The member's time is up.

Hon Mr Harris: What we're going to do is guarantee and ensure that Ontario interests are put first. We have made it very clear that there will

be no -- you talk about privatization; not even any market opening until we have those conditions in place that will be beneficial to the people and the industries of Ontario. We have had a lot of

debate in this Legislature on that. I think there has been a consensus. I know you have not agreed, but the Power Workers' Union, for example, does agree that a working marketplace with true

competition and adequate supply is the best way to do that. So that's our goal and those are the conditions we've set down. That's what we're working toward here in Ontario.

Mr Hampton: Premier, you keep uttering these words about guarantees for Ontario. There are no guarantees in the legislation. Furthermore, once

it's sold to private companies, NAFTA and other trade agreements say that you can't stop that power from going south, that you've opened up the market. That's the reality of this, Premier. For you

to utter these things, do you think that corporate energy giants are in the game of charity? Do you think they're going to be willing to sell for a lower price in Ontario when they can get 123%

more in New York and when they know the Americans are not interested in conserving, that they're simply interested in getting more electricity, no matter how it comes?

What part of this don't you get? When you open the market, it means they're going to seek the maximum profit, which means the maximum price. There's nothing

you can do, once you've sold it off, to protect them. California tried that. It was a disaster. Cancel this now before you sell away what is our most valued commodity in a knowledge economy. Cancel

it now.

Hon Mr Harris: I think everybody agrees the key is that you must guarantee and ensure supply. That is the number one condition we set down for

any deregulation of the market, and an acceptance that as long as you have that supply, then the marketplace will give you better product, better price over the long term. Our first interest is, of

course, for Ontario. California, which you mentioned, had alarmists who screamed and yelled, put their heads in the sand, delayed for eight years, and they had no new construction for an eight-year

period. Let's not let that happen in Ontario.

The Speaker: New question.

Mr Hampton: My next question is for the Premier. The Premier needs to understand that the demand for electricity is out of sight in the United

States, and that's where the problem is.

PROPERTY TAXATION

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): Premier, I want to ask you, though, about your experiences on the golf course. We've learned that

you've been making taxpayers' money available to your --

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order. The member take his seat. The questions need to relate to the minister's portfolio. As you know, you can't

ask --

Interjections.

The Speaker: Take your seat, please. I'm not finished yet. I hope you will get to the point quickly about what the question is.

Mr Hampton: Premier, we exposed your plan to greatly reduce property taxes for privately owned golf courses in Ontario. Today we find out that

not only are you substantially reducing property taxes to artificially low levels, but you're going to do it right away, even before a recommended property tax assessment review is conducted. At

the same time, property taxes are going up by 5% for homeowners in Toronto, 9.5% for homeowners in Brampton and 4.5% for homeowners in Richmond Hill. How do you justify giving your corporate

friends who own private golf courses a substantial property tax reduction, while you're increasing property taxes for homeowners?

Hon Mr Harris: The first I heard of it was when you raised it yesterday. I'm not aware of any changes that are there. There may be some

proposals before the Ministry of Finance. The minister's not here today and I'd be pleased to pass your concerns on to him when he comes back.

Mr Hampton: Premier, read your backbencher Mr Beaubien's report. He is very clear. He says that the lower tax assessment should be put in

place and maintained for these golf courses, even though we know their commercial value is very great.

Premier, here's the gist of the problem: you say these properties are to be assessed at market value, but we know from the formulas that they are very valuable

properties. So we want to know, how do you justify this? Who asked for it? We reviewed the finance ministry's proposals. There was nobody asking for it there. We looked at who came and talked to Mr

Beaubien. No one was asking for it there. Who's asking for this massive property tax reduction for golfing properties? Because we don't see any taxpayers out there who are asking for such a

reduction when their homeowner taxes are going up.

The Speaker: The member's time is up.

Hon Mr Harris: I've got a whole whack of briefing notes here but none of them reference that, so perhaps you're the only one.

CABINET OFFICE STAFFING

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Premier. Premier, I want to raise another example where it's very clear

that you've looked out for yourself at the expense of Ontario's working families.

In 1995 the cost of running your political Cabinet Office was $7.8 million, but according to the audited public accounts, last year those costs doubled to

$15.8 million. Can you tell me how it is, at a time when you're asking our working families to accept less health care, less education, less protection for our environment, you have been able to

double the cost of running your cabinet?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): I appreciate the question. Let me be very clear. In the whole area of my office, the Cabinet Office,

political offices, not even taking into account inflation, we have 15% fewer political staff six years after we took office, we have five fewer ministers and we are budgeting less in this whole

area.

It is difficult to compare the Cabinet Office of today and the Cabinet Office of 1995 because of changes that have taken place in the government. Some things

that weren't in the Cabinet Office before are in the Cabinet Office today. For example, the Ontario Jobs and Investment Board, which would have been in the Ministry of Industry, Trade and

Technology under previous governments, is in the Cabinet Office. The red tape secretariat, which you guys didn't care about, is a new initiative that has saved companies and businesses millions and

millions of dollars in time. So when you compare apples to apples, you'll find we compare very favourably.

Mr McGuinty: You're telling me that power really has changed you, Mr Premier. That's what you're telling me. Suddenly now you have two sets of

rules, one for working families and another for yourself.

Our hospitals can't afford to hire full-time nurses. Our schools can't afford special education teachers and we can't afford to hire librarians these days. The

Ministry of Environment doesn't have enough money to hire back all those water treatment inspectors that you fired. But apparently there is enough money to double the cost of running your

cabinet.

To remind viewers, there used to be 130 members sitting in this Legislature. You dropped it to 103. But you have doubled the cost of running your cabinet.

I ask you again, Premier, why is it that you have become suddenly, in government, so adept at looking out for yourself and your friends, but you ignore the

needs of our working families?

Hon Mr Harris: As I indicated -- the member didn't want to hear the facts, I guess -- from the 1990s to 1998, more than $5 million in annual

Cabinet Office staffing and accommodation costs were picked up in other ministries. What I'm telling you is that we consolidated and put the costs where they should be, made it transparent and made

it up front. Overall, we have fewer political staff and we're spending less money.

But let me say this: the

preamble to your supplementary dealt with working families. You voted against every tax cut for working families, some $5 billion to

$6 billion in the hands of working families. They are paying 40% less today in income taxes, and you voted against every one of them. Why do you have the nerve to stand up and say you care about

working families? You voted to take $6 billion right out of their pockets.

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

Mrs Julia Munro (York North): My question is for the Minister of Community and Social Services. Clearly, all members of this House are

concerned about violence against women and want to see action to address this social problem. The government talks about its commitment to the issue but needs to show what services are being

provided and what initiatives have been made a priority. We need to know that there are supports in the community that will help women escape domestic violence. Minister, what priorities has your

ministry committed to?

Hon John R. Baird (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for children, minister responsible for francophone

affairs): This government will not tolerate violence against women and their children. We provide a whole series of supports, both on the justice side and through community supports, to

provide support to women fleeing abuse.

In last year's budget we announced $10 million in new support in this area, which amounted to about a 15% increase in community supports provided by the

Ministry of Community and Social Services. We announced $5 million in funding for an initiative to help provide additional support for transitional supports. I'm pleased to tell the honourable

member that one year later, after making that announcement, we have more than 118 transitional support workers providing support to women across the province who have fled abusive partners. So the

initiative is well underway and I think providing more support to vulnerable people in our society who need it.

Mrs Munro: I'm glad to see the government is interested in supports for abused women. However, we must remember that often children are the

tragic witnesses of domestic violence. Government needs to understand that we need to help the entire family as well as the victims themselves. What supports does the government provide to protect

these victims?

Hon Mr Baird: We want to take measures at the community level to provide support to people fleeing abuse. We also want to take some meaningful

measures that will address the root causes of these tragedies in a substantial way.

When it comes to children, I think we're all tremendously concerned, whether it's a young boy or a young girl, that they would somehow view that this is

acceptable behaviour, that they would somehow learn that this is something that is normal in Ontario, when it's not. It's not normal and it's not accepted. So in last year's budget we provided an

additional $5 million for intervention programs for child victims of domestic violence. One year after making that financial commitment, this funding is supporting 115 groups across Ontario to

deliver counselling services to children who witness violence against women. This, in a meaningful way, is hopefully trying to address the root cause of the challenge that is domestic violence.

GOLF TOURNAMENTS

Mr David Ramsay (Timiskaming-Cochrane): I have a question to the Premier. To start, I'd like to say that the personal remarks I made about you

yesterday were over the top and I withdraw them. In fact, Premier, I'd like to change my tack totally and I'd like to be your friend, because to be your friend is the only way I could see anybody

gets a benefit from the Mike Harris government.

There is evidence that there is a pattern of corruption emerging in your government that benefits your friends. Whether it's your continued promotion of --

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Thank you very much. Don't you see me standing up? Am I invisible?

The member will have to withdraw that. You can't say that.

Mr Ramsay: I withdraw that, Mr Speaker, and say there's a pattern of behaviour in this government that seems to benefit the Premier's

friends.

Whether it's your continued promotion of the Adams mine garbage deal that Peter Minogue, your best friend, is involved in, or the fast-tracking of Peter

Minogue's golf course and subdivision in North Bay, or the funnelling of heritage fund dollars through a Peter Minogue shell company for a North Bay for-profit company, the pattern is clear. Why is

it that your best friend and other friends of yours are so blessed by your government's largesse?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): The member has mentioned three projects, all in the public domain, all there before public scrutiny, all

there meeting all the criteria and all the program. I quite frankly find the question offensive. I think of the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions of dollars, given in direct

grants by the Liberals to golf courses, to ski hills, to individual businesses, and here you have northern Ontario entrepreneurs bringing forward proposals, whether it's for disposal of garbage or

to promote non-traditional sources of tourism to bring northern Ontario into the 21st century. I find it disgraceful that any northern member would object to the kind of promotion, the kinds of

programs the northern Ontario heritage fund has been involved in, or indeed the Adams mine proposal, which a number of us have talked about for a great deal of time.

Mr Ramsay: Premier, the facts are clear. The northern Ontario heritage fund forbids grants to be awarded to for-profit companies. When a North

Bay golf tournament company that you are familiar with ran up against this restriction, they approached Peter Minogue for a way around this hurdle. Again it was a long-time friend of yours and

manager of the northern Ontario heritage fund, Royal Poulin, who suggested to Peter Minogue how a non-profit shell company could be established in order to funnel taxpayers' dollars to the

for-profit company. Then it was Royal's son, working in the same ministry at the time, who helped facilitate the application for Peter Minogue.

Premier, if this was all on the up and up, then why wouldn't this scheme be published as a guideline for the heritage fund so that all northerners could

understand how to access these funds? Why does it appear again and again that it's just your closest friends who profit from the Mike Harris government?

Hon Mr Harris: I would hardly call the Scott Tournament of Hearts, North Bay, my friends that are involved. Here are the criteria:

private-public partnerships, federal government, other government-related agencies acting together, municipalities, First Nations, local service boards, not-for-profit corporations.

Funding could be provided to market a sporting event which brings national or international media exposure to northern Ontario, such as the Scott Tournament of

Hearts did in Sudbury, such as the Winter Games did, such as the first time we ever had the Ontario Open golf classic. Private-public partnerships are the criteria, such as the funding that came

forward to host in Sault Ste Marie when I never heard any objections about a tremendously successful promotion and tournament. These projects met all the criteria. They're out there in front for

everybody to see.

You may disagree with trying to promote golf in northern Ontario. That's fair criticism. I don't know how you have the courage to do it when you threw millions

of dollars directly into golf courses and other recreational facilities --

The Speaker: Order. The Premier's time is up.

DEER DAMAGE

Mr Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound): My question is to the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs. As he will know, last year we

had quite a bit of snow in our area and the deer had a hard problem finding food. A lot of the deer in the Meaford area have moved out of their traditional area and moved into our apple orchards. I

have a report here right from the Ministry of Agriculture that says one apple orchard lost over 80% of their trees. Their trees will be dead now. They won't grow; they won't grow anything else.

The ministry seemed to be able to find $90 million to help out our oilseed people and that's great -- that's to be commended -- but here I have apple orchards

in my area that are almost wiped out. Will the minister, today, help me compensate those apple growers?

Hon Brian Coburn (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs): I thank the member for Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound for the question. My Ministry

of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs and the Ministry of Natural Resources have been working with respect to the deer damage and, as a result of that, the Ministry of Natural Resources has

consulted with apple growers who are affected and has offered some solutions and options that would assist growers in minimizing the impact of the deer population.

The deer damage is not compensated under dedicated programs such as livestock predator damage. However, producers who are enrolled in the NISA program -- which

is the net income stabilization account program -- may be eligible for withdrawal for the 2000 stabilization year. In addition, of course, if the situation warrants it, producers are also eligible

to apply for interim withdrawal under NISA for the 2001 stabilization year.

Mr Murdoch: That's fine, and most of the apple orchard people belong to NISA, but it won't work this time. Sure, that will compensate them for

their livelihood this year, but, as you mentioned, under the livestock act now, if a wolf came in and killed lambs or killed livestock, they are compensated for that. This is the same thing, only

it's nuisance deer that have come in and killed these trees. The people can apply under NISA for this year, but it won't help them buy new trees the same as the livestock act will allow them to buy

new lambs or sheep if they're killed by wolves. And in this case, the MNR will not let the landowner protect his trees by shooting them so we have a big problem here that they're unable to control

the deer that are killing their trees. And they're killing the trees, not just eating the buds for this year; they're gone forever.

Mr Minister, will you commit today to look at an amendment to the livestock act to include deer in that act? Maybe then we will be able to get some

compensation for these farmers.

Hon Mr Coburn: As the member knows, we continue to work with our farmers and our producers for long-term solutions, in fact, made-in-Ontario

solutions that are enduring and take the peaks and valleys out of some of these challenges. I encourage the member for Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound to work with his constituents who are facing losses to

deer damage and contact my ministry, and we'll work with you to provide some assistance on these specific issues.

To answer your question directly, I will take a look at that. We are looking for long-term solutions. One of the caveats is that compensation on an annual

basis is not necessarily a long-term solution, but we will work on that with the member.

NURSES

Ms Frances Lankin (Beaches-East York): My question is to the Premier. Today, just down the street here, within sight of this building, an

amazing event took place. Hospital nurses, front-line nurses, put down their stethoscopes, left their wards and took up picket signs. They held a May Day information picket -- mayday, SOS -- a

warning that hospital nursing is in crisis. In fact, they were wearing buttons that look an awful lot like your highway construction signs, except these say, "Not enough nurses -- your tax cuts at

work."

Premier, your government has created a crisis in which nurses are undervalued, underpaid and overworked. In an unprecedented way and for the first time in

history, they are voluntarily refusing overtime and extra shifts. It's a job action. They're demanding you take real measures to address the issues, the crisis facing nursing, the issues of working

conditions and professional pay and the shortage. What is your response to the working hospital nurses of Ontario?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): The Minister of Health can respond.

Hon Tony Clement (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I can tell the honourable member that in terms of the instant issues of the day,

which is ensuring that patients in Ontario receive the critical care they require in the hospital environment, I have been communicating with the Ontario Hospital Association and have delivered our

expectations that they will take the actions that are necessary to maintain patient care today. Obviously, a series of negotiations is going on between the ONA and the OHA.

I can tell you, in terms of our government, we've been very proactive as a response to the nursing task force report back in 1999, investing $375 million of

taxpayers' money annually to create new nursing positions, and we've also been proactive in a number of other areas involving nurses. We welcome nurses in our province and we want to be there for

them.

Ms Lankin: Well, Minister, let me tell you some other expectations you delivered to the OHA and to the public of Ontario. Your finance

minister says Ontario cannot compete with Alberta nurses, who recently received a significant wage increase. He went on to say, and I'm quoting, "If our nurses want to move to Alberta, then so be

it." And your Premier said that Ontario's hospital nurses shouldn't be expecting any kind of significant wage increase. This from a government who had a large pay increase for political staff just

after the election, who wanted to increase the MPPs' salaries by 42%, who raised wages for doctors, for judges, for government lawyers. What about the nurses, Minister?

Will you tell nurses today that you will not drive any more of them out of the province, that there's a reason for them to stay? Will you tell them that your

government will fund hospitals so they can pay nurses professional wages with decent benefits and good working conditions? Will you do that, Minister?

Hon Mr Clement: I will say to anyone who wishes to listen that we as a government have been funding this health care system at an accelerating

rate, a 19% increase in the health care system over the last two years. It now represents 44 cents out of every program dollar spent in this province.

With respect to nurses, again, our investment of $375 million annually to create new nursing positions; $17 million to create new nursing ER positions; $10

million to create 106 new nurse practitioner positions. These are the elements of action rather than talk, and I would say to any nurse who is willing to listen, we welcome nurses. We want them to

be an integral part of our health care delivery system and we are putting our money where our mouth is, which is what they expect out of leadership from our government.

PREMIER'S ATTENDANCE

Mr George Smitherman (Toronto Centre-Rosedale): My question is for the Premier. Last week you managed to make a sit-in look vigorous as you

staggered about Ontario with your no-meat, no-juice tour. You waxed hollow about accountability. Today I'd like to give you a chance to actually address a meaningful question about

accountability.

I have a private member's bill that establishes a 60% threshold for attendance by the Premier and members of the cabinet in question period. Your lack of

commitment to the principle of accountability, as contained in my bill, is a concern. As well, your continued deception around releasing your holiday

schedule is at odds with the principles of

accountability you like to talk to for everybody else.

Premier, will you commit to the principle of 60% attendance contained in my bill, and will you release your holiday

schedule today?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): I was wondering whether you, with all your onerous responsibility in the Legislature, right in your own

riding might commit to a little better attendance, it seems to me.

Let me say that my responsibilities are here in the Legislature, with all our ministers. I also have responsibilities in my riding, which is a couple of

hundred miles north of the Legislature. I also have responsibilities to all the people of the province.

I can recall that when I sat on the back benches, I can recall that when I was in opposition, it was not nearly as onerous a responsibility or as

time-consuming as being a parliamentary assistant, let alone being a minister, let alone being the Premier of the province. My accountability is to you in the Legislature. My accountability is

also, though, to the taxpayers, the voters, the citizens, the nurses, the teachers and the child-care workers of this province, and so I make sure that I provide time for them and, quite frankly,

they've had a lot better questions for me than you have.

Mr Smitherman: Premier, at the rate you're going it won't be long now before those of us on this side will have the opportunity to fulfil

those responsibilities you view as onerous.

Sir, a couple of points on this matter: you spoke about your responsibilities in your riding and yet I note that a story in the North Bay Nugget at the end of

the session, 133 days ago, spoke about the lack of attendance you have for your own riding. Sir, you spoke about the quality of the questions you received on the road, but I was there in London

when you couldn't hurry fast enough back into the comfort of your GMC Suburban, leaving a constituent asking about the health care of his daughter.

Premier, will you commit today to attend question period on a more regular basis, such as the 60% threshold --

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): The member's time is up. Take his seat. Premier.

Hon Mr Harris: My commitment is to the province of Ontario, to the voters, to the citizens, to all the citizens of Ontario; as I said, to all

those who are there. So I certainly commit that I and my ministers will be here and accountable an appropriate amount of time. I also commit to travel the globe to seek out every job, every

investment, every opportunity, because ours is a growth agenda. I commit to continue to put the time into the job that the job requires. I visited over 20 communities before the session started and

I took the throne speech to the people of Ontario, but I noticed one little thing: while I was in Sudbury on Friday, we had second and third reading on back-to-work legislation affecting Toronto

Centre-Rosedale and you missed both votes.

YOUNG OFFENDERS

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): My question is for the Minister of Correctional Services. On March 24 you released the results of an

evaluation done on Project Turnaround, the young offenders' strict discipline facility, which was established in my riding in 1997. There were some very promising results that came out of this

evaluation with regard to the rate of young offenders re-offending. Minister, can you share with this House the results and what they mean?

Hon Rob Sampson (Minister of Correctional Services): I'd like to thank the member from Simcoe North for his question. I know he has a very

keen and very valid interest in Project Turnaround and the results of that facility, as we as a government do, because we set that project up in 1996 as a pilot project to apply the concept of

strict discipline as a correctional model to young offenders. We did that because at the time the recidivism rate, or the rate at which young offenders were going back into society and re-offending

after they had left our institutions, was too high: some 60% to 70% to 80%.

Interjections.

Hon Mr Sampson: I say to the member opposite, who stood in this House not too many minutes ago and said we should be proud of the correctional

system in this province, that he is proud we are sending 50% to 80% of offenders, from our institutions, back into society to reoffend. I think that's a shameful record to be proud of, I say to the

honourable member.

We have a project that has demonstrated tremendous success and we're proud of that.

Mr Dunlop: Thank you for the response, Minister. I'm very proud of my riding of Simcoe North being host to this facility. It's clear from this

report that Project Turnaround is changing the lives of young people to create law-abiding, responsible individuals.

In light of these great results from the privately operated Project Turnaround, can you tell us where the ministry will be expanding the strict discipline

program, and whether you are also considering expanding on this very successful partnership with the private sector?

Hon Mr Sampson: I thank the honourable member again for the question. I want to continue in the vein of the answer to the first question

because I didn't have a chance to answer it as I was interrupted by the people opposite.

What I wanted to say to the members here and to the people watching is that we have a tremendous correctional program in the form of Project Turnaround, where

we are able to lower the reoffending rates of young offenders, especially those who are serious and violent offenders, by a third. That's tremendous progress that we started in 1996, I say to my

friends across the floor, that we've monitored since 1996, a program we have modified since 1996 to make sure we get results.

I say to the members opposite, that's how you demonstrate making tough decisions in the right direction in the field of justice and in the field of

corrections. You actually do something that demonstrates the result. You don't do what you did, which is sit around and do nothing.

MEDICAL SCHOOL

Mr Bruce Crozier (Essex): My question is for the Minister of Health. Recently an editorial in the Windsor-Essex media commented on a statement

of the Premier and it said, "For many who have been involved in the med school drive" -- that is in Windsor-Essex -- "the Premier's failure to include Windsor will be seen as a great

disappointment. But it wouldn't be unexpected if Windsor is left out in the end."

However, under the headline that read, "Campus coming to Windsor as well, Clement says," you are more positive and are reported to have said, "The Windsor

campus likely would be a satellite of the existing medical school at the University of Western Ontario."

In view of your optimistic comments, can the 300,000 residents of the Essex-Windsor area count on your support in establishing a satellite medical school

through the University of Western Ontario?

Hon Tony Clement (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I'd be happy to clarify the situation for the honourable member and for this

chamber. Certainly we made a very important announcement last Tuesday in which we indicated that we are moving ahead with strategies for physician recruitment and retention which includes a

northern medical school.

Just parenthetically, when you have Diane Marleau, the Sudbury MP, saying, "I want us to give credit to Mike Harris and his team for this great decision that

was made," that obviously shows bipartisan support, and I know the honourable member was asking the question in the same vein.

With respect to southwestern Ontario, our concern is physician recruitment and retention in urban areas and rural areas. This is not just an urban challenge;

it is also a challenge in rural Ontario. Our commitment is to ensure that through our initiative in southwestern Ontario we meet those challenges, and we will do so based on proposals that can now

come forward.

Mr Crozier: I appreciate that. It was also reported in the Windsor Star recently that, as you have just said, "The government is exploring a

satellite as part of a plan to broaden medical care" for the areas of Essex, Kent and Lambton counties.

It is my understanding as well, and I'm pleased about this, that you have agreed to meet with the medical education task force in June. Really, what I am

asking you for is just some good news. I hope you will support the establishment of this medical school in Windsor and that you will bring good news to us in June. Can I count on that?

Hon Mr Clement: I thank the honourable member for putting his oar in the water on this and I accept his comments in the positive tone in which

they were made.

I can tell the honourable and this House that in fact I'm having a series of meetings in May, not June. This is the month of May and they will occur later

on.

The member for Windsor-St Clair has been extremely helpful in providing me with some information about his local community. The member for Windsor West has

also been helpful, although I'm less clear about her ultimate position, but that's fine.

I can tell you that I'm willing to meet with any groups that have a position on this issue. Certainly, our position is that if there are proposals that can

help solve the physician recruitment and retention issue, both in rural areas and in urban areas in southwestern Ontario, those are the kinds of proposals we're interested in.

COMMUNITY SAFETY

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): My question is to the Solicitor General. I really did appreciate -- and I'm sure the people of Ontario did, as well

-- hearing about the entire issue around community safety. In my riding of Durham, residents have been involved for years in establishing a variety of initiatives designed to improve community

safety. Such programs as Neighbourhood Watch and road safety programs are just a couple, and they've been coordinated by volunteer citizens like Marianne Winters in Orono, Masood Vatandoust, Nicole

Johnson, Lloyd and Susan Johnson of Newcastle and Marianne Yeatman of Bowmanville, just to name a few. They've tried to maintain a sense of community safety.

Minister, would you please tell the House today, and the people, about the Partners Against Crime program and the appropriate grants that will assist

communities like mine across this province?

Hon David Turnbull (Solicitor General): The Partners Against Crime program was designed to stimulate the police and community to develop and

deliver crime prevention programs and community safety initiatives. Since 1997, 208 communities across Ontario, and community agencies and police services, have received funding of some $7 million

under this program.

There are three components of this program. First is community crime prevention, which allows those closest to community concerns to set local priorities and

develop and implement local solutions. Then there is front-line policing crime prevention, which reinvests proceeds of crime money into front-line policing activities. Also, we have law enforcement

grants.

Mr O'Toole: It's really exciting to hear that 208 communities have already picked up on this government initiative. It's clear evidence that

we're certainly keeping our promise of getting tough on crime. I think you as minister serve as a good sentinel for that.

I know the Durham constituents, and indeed all of Ontario, are thirsty to know more about the plan. Can you outline for us today the kinds of community

programs that are being funded by you and this government in programs like Partners Against Crime?

Hon Mr Turnbull: In fact, you've already mentioned two of them. There's Crime Stoppers and Neighbourhood Watch. In addition to these, there

are programs aimed at providing occupational, vocational and academic opportunities for young offenders. There are recreational activities for youth, mentoring programs between police officers and

at-risk youth, as well as implementing justice councils. We also have public education and awareness programs under this.

Under front-line policing grants, we provide money to municipal police services and to the OPP for things such as the purchase of stop sticks and spike belts

to reduce the duration of police pursuits and to improve safety for police and the public. Also, this has allowed the purchase of laser speed guns and sophisticated breathalyzer equipment to

enhance road safety enforcement and drinking-and-driving initiatives.

RAIL SERVICE

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): My question is to the Premier. Less than two weeks ago, hundreds of northern residents boarded the

Survival Express, bound for Toronto. These were people from my community, the community of the member from Timiskaming-Cochrane and, Premier, people from your community of North Bay. All these

hundreds of people had one message, and it was loud and clear: don't kill our communities, don't kill our trains. Premier, it's time you listened to the people of the north. Will you do that?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): Yes.

Mr Bisson: Can I take that to say you will stand with the people who came down on the Survival Express and you will reinstate and make sure

the monies necessary to the ONTC are there, that the ONTC stays under public control and that rail passenger service in fact stays under public control and keeps rolling in northern Ontario?

Hon Mr Harris: I was asked, will I listen to the people of the north? That's what I've been doing for 20 years, as an MPP, as a cabinet

minister, as somebody in opposition, as leader of a party in opposition and as Premier of the province. When it comes to the ONTC, we made a very firm commitment: we were not getting good service,

and we needed to take a good, sound look at the ONTC to see if we could not improve overall service -- freight, passenger service, bus service and telecommunications. We would take a look and

examine all proposals to do that. That was the recommendation of the consultants who were hired. That was adopted unanimously by the board of directors, all from northern Ontario, and accepted by

the government. The minister, the ministry and the board are now empowered to talk to all those interested, including the mayors and reeves, those who came to Queen's Park and those in the private

sector, to see what we can do --

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order. I'm afraid the Premier's time is up.

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): For the first time since December 20, 2000, I have a chance to ask a question of the Premier -- some 133

days since I've had that opportunity.

I want to ask him this question: in the Niagara Peninsula he may be aware, as his own members and other members would be, that there is a tremendous shortage

of ophthalmologists, so that people who are seeking eye care in the Niagara region are either forced to go to Hamilton, where they're already backed up with a long list for that service, or they

have to wait an inordinately long period of time to receive eye care.

In other parts of the province where there isn't a sufficient number of ophthalmologists, the Minister of Health has permitted a temporary lifting of the

billing cap. Until such time as we have a sufficient number in the Niagara region, will you now, today, treat the people of the Niagara region the way others have been treated in the province and

lift that billing cap on an interim basis so that people in the Niagara region may receive adequate eye care?

Hon Michael D. Harris (Premier): I appreciate the member's concern, and I will be pleased to pass that concern on to the minister.

Mr Bradley: My supplementary question to the Premier also revolves around the need for medical care in the Niagara region. The Premier would

be aware that in many parts of the province, again including St Catharines and the Niagara Peninsula, there happens to be a real shortage of family physicians. We also have that in the field of

those who deal with skin problems that people have -- dermatologists, that is -- but we have a dearth of family physicians in the Niagara region. People are calling the constituency offices of the

members there to try to obtain the services of a physician, and we find instead that we're having people who are retiring, people who are passing on and people who are moving. Therefore we have a

genuine crisis in the field of medical care because people do not have the services of a family physician.

The Premier would know that his government has an opportunity to take action which would overcome this problem in the Niagara region -- in particular in the

city of St Catharines, where I'm getting the calls, but throughout the Niagara region. I ask the Premier in the House today, will he undertake to provide programs which would in the very near

future bring to the Niagara Peninsula, to the city of St Catharines, family physicians who can then serve the people in our area?

Hon Mr Harris: I think the minister can respond to that.

Hon Tony Clement (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I thank the member for his concern about this particular issue. Indeed, as part of

our overall strategy on physician recruitment and retention to respond to the McKendry report as well as other things, we have put provincial resources into rural premiums for GPs who are on call,

we have a specific rural recruitment and retention program for underserviced areas that have that designation, we are enhancing on-call coverage, we are trying to get specialist hospital on-call

coverage improved as well, we have an incentive funding program for rural students who take a clerkship rotation. These are all things we have done to date. Is there more to do? Yes, there is, and

that is why we made our announcements last week. But if the honourable member has any particular issues, certainly I'd be happy to take them under advisement.

PETITIONS

SCHOOL FACILITIES

Mr John C. Cleary (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly.

"Whereas the Catholic District School Board of Eastern Ontario plans to build a new high school in Cornwall to provide accommodations for 300 students at the

taxpayers' cost of over $9 million;

"Whereas the Upper Canada District School Board currently has 700 excess pupil spaces in the high school level in Cornwall and is looking at filling these

spaces with grade 7 and 8 students, necessitating an elementary school closure;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"Please urge these coterminous boards to share the facilities that exist. Due to a previous collaboration effort, these boards presently share space in one

high school. This has been a harmonious, cost-effective union. We request that the government of Ontario urge the continuation of co-operation of these boards to avoid unnecessary spending of tax

dollars. Without this co-operation, we face sending our young children into high schools at an early age simply to fill space, while a coterminous board spends upwards of $9 million to build yet

another facility."

This petition is signed by Terri Forrester, Shirley Ferguson and 1,600 of my other constituents, and I affix my signature to this petition.

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario that reads as follows:

"Whereas the community of Sarnia is witnessing many women developing mesothelioma and asbestosis as a result of the asbestos brought home on their husbands'

work clothing; and

"Whereas similar cases are occurring in other areas of the province;

"We, the undersigned, ask the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to amend the Workplace Safety and Insurance Act to allow compensation for family members who

develop occupational illness as a result of workplace toxins inadvertently brought home."

I add my name to those of the petitioners.

PROTECTION OF MINORS

Mr Bob Wood (London West): I have a petition signed by 112 people:

"Whereas children are being exposed to sexually explicit materials in many commercial establishments;

"Whereas many municipalities do not have bylaws in place to protect minors and those that do vary from place to place and have failed to protect minors from

unwanted exposure to sexually explicit materials;

"Whereas uniform standards are needed in Ontario that would make it illegal to sell, rent, loan or display sexually explicit materials to minors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To pass Bill 95, Protection of Minors from Sexually Explicit Goods and Services Act, 2000, as soon as possible."

WHITE BIRCH PLANT

Mr David Ramsay (Timiskaming-Cochrane): I'd like to acknowledge the presence of 30 of my constituents, who have come from Temagami to hear the

reading of this petition. It reads:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Ministry of Natural Resources has chosen to deny a recent bid to have a value-added white birch plant in Temagami;

"Whereas the province of Ontario is systematically stripping away the economic backbone of Temagami through policy and practices that resulted in the closures

of the Milnes and Son mill and the MNR district office and now the outright rejection of a viable business opportunity;

"Now, therefore, on behalf of the residents of Temagami, and in particular the approximately 50 families which have put their lives on hold while their

breadwinners travel out of town to find gainful employment, we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to provide a wood directive in order to enable Temagami to have a

value-added white birch plant in Temagami, thus creating enough jobs to allow this town to survive."

I will add my signature to this petition.

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): I've got quite a number of petitions from many concerned citizens.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the report of the McKendry commission, released by the Ontario Ministry of Health in December 1999, finds that Ontario is facing a shortage of over

1,000 physicians; and

"Whereas at least 286 international medical graduates in Ontario have successfully completed the Medical Council of Canada evaluating exam, demonstrating

competence in clinical knowledge; and

"Whereas the number of Ministry of Health funded post-graduate positions in `pool B' (that is, international medical graduates) has been reduced from 289 to 81

since 1994; and

"Whereas the Council of Ontario Faculties of Medicine has indicated that they have the capacity to absorb an increase in the number of entry-level

post-graduate positions, as long as sufficient resources are provided to support the increase; and

"Whereas the Legislative Assembly of Ontario unanimously passed private member's resolution 6 on November 25, 1999, which held that the government of Ontario

should implement a plan to improve access to professions and trades for foreign-trained professionals.

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to direct the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care as follows:

"(

a) to restore the number of Ministry of Health funded post-graduate positions for international medical graduates to at least 1994 levels;

"(

b) to increase immediately the number of entry-level post-graduate training positions to the full capacity of the Ontario faculties of medicine;

"(

c) to make the increased entry-level post-graduate positions directly available to international medical graduates who have successfully completed the

requisite examinations;

"(

d) to develop a plan to identify alternative funding mechanisms that allow more equitable access for international physicians to the health care system in

Ontario; and

"(

e) to appoint a committee, with representation from the international medical graduate community, to review and dismantle the barriers which have been

established to prevent international physicians from gaining fair access to licensure and practice in Ontario."

I support this petition.

PAPER SLUDGE

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): A petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas residents of the riding of Durham have voiced their objection to the storage of paper sludge and related material within the Oak Ridges moraine;

and

"Whereas the residents are concerned over the impact of this material on the air, water and soil of the moraine and on the health of those living nearby;

and

"Whereas this issue has been raised at several public meetings by both individual citizens, members of the Protect the Ridges Coalition and municipal

governments; and

"Whereas the Ministry of the Environment is currently completing a study of the impact of paper sludge in the riding of Durham:

"We, the undersigned, respectfully petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to take whatever steps are necessary to re-evaluate the use of paper sludge in

Ontario, including its stockpiling and storage in rural areas, the spreading of this material on farm fields and any other commercial applications for this material. And that such re-evaluation of

this process include consultation with residents in communities where paper sludge is spread, stored and processed. And that the re-evaluation also include whatever technical studies are necessary

to fully understand the impact of this material on the natural environment."

I am pleased to support and sign this on their behalf.

HOSPITAL RESTRUCTURING

Mr Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas in 1998 the Mike Harris government forced hospitals in Bancroft, Belleville, Picton and Trenton, Ontario, to amalgamate into the Quinte Healthcare

Corp;

"Whereas the fiscal management of each of the aforementioned hospitals prior to amalgamation was prudent, efficient and accountable to their communities;

"Whereas amalgamation and provincial government cutbacks have created a $5-million deficit for the Quinte Healthcare Corp;

"Whereas any reduction in hospital and health care services in each of the aforementioned communities is completely unacceptable;

"Whereas this provincial government promised to ensure that the effect of amalgamation would not result in any reduction of health care or hospital

services;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"Instruct Premier Mike Harris and Health Minister Tony Clement to provide enough funding to the Quinte Healthcare Corp that will cover the projected $5-million

deficit and ensure that quality health care and hospital services in the long term will continue in Bancroft, Belleville, Picton and Quinte West."

I am pleased to add my signature to this petition.

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): I continue to receive petitions from the CAW. These were forwarded to me by Cathy Walker, who is the

national health and safety director. The petitions read as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas this year 130,000 Canadians will contract cancer and there are at minimum 17 funerals every day for Canadian workers who died from cancer caused by

workplace exposure to cancer-causing substances known as carcinogens; and

"Whereas the World Health Organization estimates that 80% of all cancers have environmental causes and the International Labour Organization estimates that one

million workers globally have cancer because of exposure at work to carcinogens; and

"Whereas most cancers can be beaten if government had the political will to make industry replace toxic substances with non-toxic substances; and

"Whereas very few health organizations study the link between occupations and cancer, even though more study of this link is an important step to defeating

this dreadful disease;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That it become a legal requirement that occupational history be recorded on a standard form when a patient presents at a physician for diagnosis or treatment

of cancer; and

"That the diagnosis and occupational history be forwarded to a central cancer registry for analysis as to the link between cancer and occupation."

I continue to add my support by adding my name to this pe