British Columbia Hansard — Tuesday, October 4, 2005 (38th Parliament, 1st Session) (H1004pm-18) (H1004pm 18)

H1004pm-18

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

First Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Tuesday, October 4, 2005 Afternoon Sitting Volume 1, Number 18 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Iona V. Campagnolo, CM, OBC FIRST SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations .......................................................................................................... Hon.

John van Dongen Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation .......................................................................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ..........................................................................................................................Hon.

Stan Hagen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining............................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Bill Bennett Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon. Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services .......................................................................................................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General................................................................................................................................Hon.

John Les Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Deregulation ...................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sports and the Arts........................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole.................................................................................................................................................

Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E. George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D.

Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H. James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ..................................................................................................................................................Anthony Dambrauskas Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Acting Legislative Comptroller..................................................................................................................................................Brent Cunningham

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) ..........................................................................Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)...................................................................................Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP)....................................................................... Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)...............................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon. Pat (L) ..................................................................Prince George North Bennett, Hon.

Bill (L) .....................................................................East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ..................................................................Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L).....................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).......................................... Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP)..........................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon. Gordon (L) ..............................................

Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)................................................................... Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) ......................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ...................................................... Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, Dave (NDP).................................................Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon. Murray (L) ..........................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon.

Rich (L)................................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) ............................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) .............................................................................North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)................................................................. Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ........................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) ..............................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP)......................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) ............................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ....................................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ...................................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ...................................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP)............................................................................ Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ......................................................................Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ........................................................

Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon. Colin (L) .......................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L)............................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) .................................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ..................................................................... Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Gordon (L)................................................................... Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)...........................................................

Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)................................................................ Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)....................................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP)............................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)........................................................North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) .................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)..............................................................................

Nanaimo Krueger, Kevin (L)................................................... Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)................................ Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)..............................................................................Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L).........................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L)................................................................... Peace River South Les, Hon. John (L)....................................................................

Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP)......................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)......................................................... Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L)............................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L)...................................................... West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) ....................................................... Peace River North Nuraney, John (L)..................................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon.

Wally, QC (L)............................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)................................................................ Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ......................................................................................... Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)........................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ...................................................................Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ..................................................................... Richmond East Richmond, Hon.

Claude (L)...................................................................Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) .....................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L)............................................................................ Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP).......................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ..............................................................Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP)..............................................

Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ........................................ Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP).......................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ......................................................... Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) .........................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon. Carole (L)..........................................................

Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) ......................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L)............................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) .......................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)..................................................Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L).............................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) ......................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)........................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn ........................................................ Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman................................................Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum ...............................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ................................................................ Dennis MacKay Burnaby North................................................................................ Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds............................................................................. Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon ........................................................................John Nuraney Burquitlam............................................................................................

Harry Bloy Cariboo North....................................................................................Bob Simpson Cariboo South................................................................................... Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ....................................................................... Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas ........................................................................... Hon.

John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke ......................................................Norm Macdonald Comox Valley .............................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville................................................................... Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith .......................................................................Doug Routley Delta North........................................................................................

Guy Gentner Delta South...................................................................................Valerie Roddick East Kootenay ............................................................................Hon. Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin ............................................................. Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove....................................................... Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops ......................................................................... Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson..........................................................

Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country .......................................................................Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ............................................................................Sindi Hawkins Langley................................................................................................

Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca........................................................................John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ......................................................................Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows...........................................................Michael Sather Nanaimo ...........................................................................................Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville..........................................................................

Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston.................................................................................. Corky Evans New Westminster ........................................................................Chuck Puchmayr North Coast .........................................................................................Gary Coons North Island.................................................................................... Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale ....................................................

Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour .............................................................. Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head.................................................................Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon ..............................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside................................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Peace River North ...............................................................Hon.

Richard Neufeld Peace River South ..........................................................................Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley...................................................... Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain................................................. Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood .........................................................................Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast.....................................................Nicholas Simons Prince George North .........................................................................Hon.

Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson................................................. Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca .....................................................................John Rustad Richmond Centre .......................................................................... Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East ............................................................................ Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ............................................................................... John Yap Saanich North and the Islands..................................................Hon.

Murray Coell Saanich South..............................................................................David Cubberley Shuswap ................................................................................ Hon. George Abbott Skeena ...............................................................................................Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale ....................................................................Hon. Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers.....................................................................

Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton ....................................................................................Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge...................................................................... Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead .............................................................................Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley ............................................................................... Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock..........................................................................

Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard .................................................................. Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.................................................................. Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview ...................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings...................................................................... Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington ........................................................... David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway...........................................................................

Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara.................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant .............................................Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey..................................................... Hon. Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena ............................................................. Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill ........................................................................Carole James Victoria-Hillside................................................................................

Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary ............................................................ Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano ............................................................... Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi............................................................. Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet ..........................................................................................Harry Lali

CONTENTS Tuesday, October 4, 2005 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... ............................................... 405 Statements (Standing Order 25 B) .............................................................................................................................. ............... 406 War veterans D. Hayer Quadra Island Volunteer Fire Department C. Trevena Roots of Empathy program L. Mayencourt Small business M. Karagianis Prebudget consultation B.

Lekstrom Hartland landfill D. Cubberley Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ........................................................... 408 Government advertising on education C. James Hon. C. Taylor J. Kwan J. Horgan C. Puchmayr Hon. S. Bond R. Fleming M. Karagianis B. Simpson Hon. M. de Jong M. Farnworth G. Robertson Government support for aboriginal women S. Fraser Hon. I.

Chong Motions without Notice ......................................................................................................... ................................................... 412 Referral of reports to and powers of Public Accounts Committee Hon. M. de Jong Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ..................................................... 413 Teachers' Collective Agreement Act (Bill 12) (continued) J. Horgan C. Puchmayr C. James N. Macdonald R. Fleming L. Krog C. Evans

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ..................................................... 436 Estimates: Ministry of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics (continued) M. Farnworth Hon. C. Hansen M. Karagianis G. Robertson S. Simpson C. Evans H. Bains

405 TUESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2005 The House met at 2:04 p.m. Introductions by Members J. Kwan: Visiting us today in the gallery are two very special guests. They'r e strong advocates for the disability community that has been part of Vancouver– Mount Pleasant for a very, very long time. They are George Lawson and of course his lovely partner, Ghia Aweiba. Would the House please make them welcome. Hon. J. Les: I again have a guest in the gallery to- day. Francis Zeni is a teacher who lives in my riding of Chilliwack-Sumas and works on call in both Chilliwack and Mission.

I would ask the House to please make Francis welcome. [1405] C. Puchmayr: I t ' s a n h o n o u r t o r i s e h e r e a n d i n - troduce a guest. Patricia Douglas has been teaching for 35 years at David Thompson. She is a business education teacher representing the business education provincial specialists association. Please give her a big welcome. Hon. L. Reid: I would like to acknowledge today in the chambers the Salvation Army, particularly Capt. John Murray.

He and I had the absolute privilege on Friday to open the Salvation Army Rotary Hospice House in Richmond — the addition of ten beds for the province of British Columbia. It will be a glorious facil- ity. I would ask the House to please make Captain Murray and his colleagues welcome. S. Hammell: I would like the House to welcome Karen Morley, president of the B.C. Science Teachers Association and one of those teachers who spends many hours out of her regular job working on behalf of the profession and her interests. Would the House please join me in making her welcome. S. Hawkins: Mr.

Speaker, I'm making an introduc- tion on your behalf. I would like to introduce a con- stituent from Penticton–Ok anagan Valley. Her name is Karen Litke, and she teac hes grades three and four at Uplands Elementary School in Penticton. I would ask the House to please jo in me in making her wel- come. C. Trevena: I would like to introduce two guests, Maye Davis and Robbi Ling — two long-term and dedicated teachers at Lake Trail Middle School in the Comox Valley. I would like the House to make them welcome. J.

McIntyre: It is with great pleasure today that I introduce a grade 11 class from Rockridge Secondary School in West Vancouver. They're accompanied by their teachers Ms. Paula Waatainen, Mr. Doug Smith and Mr. Craig Chubb. I have to also tell you that it is with special pride that I do this, because my daughter Leigh Pottinger was in the ve ry first class in the inau- gural year at Rockridge when it first opened. I hope the whole House will join me in making them feel very welcome today. H. Bains: Today in the gallery is Kevin Amboe, a teacher from Surrey.

He's a past president of the Computer-Using Educators of B.C. and is currently district elementary ITC coor dinator. Please join me to extend a warm welcome to Mr. Amboe. H. Bloy: It gives me pleasure to introduce a teacher on call, Tanya Dow, who I had a great conversation with over lunch. It bodes well for the graduating teach- ers. Would the House please make Tanya welcome. D. Thorne: I'd like the House to welcome Leo Hutchinson. He's a teacher from Coquitlam, and he is the president of the Adult Educators Provincial Specialists Association. Not only that, Mr.

Hutchinson has three children in the school district in Coquitlam — well, almost three, and his wife is expecting a fourth. One of his children is severely autistic. Mr. Hutchinson has spent a number of years doing wonderful work in the community with the step -by-step association. I'd like everyone to welcome him and thank him for his work. J. Horgan: I would like to acknowledge in the gal- lery, from the republic of Cobble Hill, teacher on call Maggie Hughes. Maggie is here with us today, and I want to ask the House to make her welcome. Hon. I.

Chong: I, too, am pleased to make an intro- duction to the House: a constituent of mine, Michelle Kilborn, who is a teacher at Lambrick Park Secondary School, a very well-known school for providing excel- lence in sports. Michelle is president of the PEBC, the provincial specialist association on physical education, as well as chairperson of th e Greater Victoria physical educators. I would ask all members of the House to please make her very welcome. [1410] L. Krog: In the gallery today is Ellen Ellis, a social studies teacher from Nanaimo District Secondary. Would the House please make her welcome. D.

Routley: With us today in the House is a teacher from my riding, from Duncan, a member of the provin- cial Culinary Arts Specialist Association, Al Irving. Could the House please make him welcome? H. Lali: I, too, would like to join my colleague in recognizing Allen Irving. Allen Irving and I have been best friends from high school and university on. We're lifelong friends. He is a teacher from Duncan. I would like to join my colleague in welcoming Allen Irving. Would the House please make him welcome.

406 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2005 Statements (Standing Order 25B) WAR VETERANS D. Hayer: We often talk in this House about free- doms and the wonderful lifestyle that we all enjoy in this province and in this country. It is unfortunate that those who sacrificed so much are only recognized and remembered on one day of the year, November 11. Therefore, I want to take this opportunity to recognize the veterans who gave body and soul to make this country what it is today. There are few of them left who served this country and fought for our freedom during the First and Second World Wars.

We must be ever grateful to those few who carry the memories of fighting for our freedom to vote and our freedom to practise any religion of our choosing, of fighting for equality and against racism. While the number of World War I and World War II veterans continues, sadly, to decline, there are new veterans — Canadian Armed Forces personnel, who have served us proudly as peacekeepers and personnel in war-torn and conflict-ridden countries overseas.

I'm proud to have been part of a government that created the B.C. veteran's licence plate, which serves as a significant reminder of those who have gone into harm's way to ensure that all of us in this House — all people of this country — can walk free, talk free and live free. I t i s a n h o n o u r t o m e e t o n e o f o u r v e t e r a n s , a n d I recommend that all of us in the House go out of our way to shake a veteran's hand and offer him or her our sincere gratitude. In this way, we can remember their contribution to our freedom not only on Remembrance Day but every day of the year.

QUADRA ISLAND VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT C. Trevena: I'm happy to rise and tell the House about some good news that the Quadra Island Volun- teer Fire Department recent ly received. Just over a week ago, the fire chief and members of the board were here in Victoria receiving th e Solicitor General's Safety and Crime Prevention Awar d. The volunteers are ex- traordinarily proud of the award, and rightly so. Quadra Island has a permanent population of about 3,000 and a volunteer fire department which is 29 strong.

Every week almost all those firefighters turn out for practice and often give up their weekends as well. But for the community, they're more than just fire- fighters. These volunteers, our neighbours on the is- land, are often first responders. When a siren is heard in a small community, you are very aware of it. At times the fire department arrives ahead of the ambu- lance crew — also volunteers — on a 911 call, and the paramedics among them are put into action.

T h e R C M P d e t a c h m e n t o n t h e i s l a n d i s j u s t f o u r strong, and often the fire department is called to assist when the Mounties are out on a job. It was the Quadra Island Volunteer Fire Depa rtment's work which a few years ago prevented Rebecca Spit provincial park being destroyed when a beach fire got out of control and spread into the forest. The fire department was ther e to assist in setting up the community centre when the seniors held a provin- cial conference on the island. They provide a lunch at the elementary school every year and teach fire safety to our kids.

They're there at Quadra Island's May Day parade, ready by tradition for the water bombs cast from the hillside, and they'r e there on July 1, running the concession for the island's Canada Day celebration. [1415] They're there at Halloween , offering safety reflec- tors for the kids and hot chocolate for all, and keeping an eye on the fireworks. Th ey, like volunteer firefight- ers across the province, are there for their neighbours. ROOTS OF EMPATHY PROGRAM L.

Mayencourt: Recently I learned that Mary Gordon, a friend of mine and a friend of many mem- bers of this Legislature as well, received the Order of Canada. Boy, does she ever deserve it. Mary created the Roots of Empathy program in Toronto and started it there, but it has spread to British Columbia. There is no other province in Canada that has more Roots of Empathy programs than B.C. That's because we put over a million dollars into this program to ensure that kids get access to this excellent, excellent program.

Roots of Empathy is a classroom-based program that brings a family with a young infant and some vol- unteers into an elementary school classroom to pro- mote empathy and understanding. It's a wonderful program for children. It has the same objectives as a safe schools act, which I continue to press for. The pro- gram reduces aggression and bullying. It promotes empathy and compassion in children and fits perfectly with the Ministry of Educa tion's mandate, which in- cludes a focus on early learning and giving children the best start in life.

I know that schools that use this program have a stronger, more positive school environment with less bul- lying and more compassion, but you don't just have to take it from me. UBC is doing a study right now to show that this program actually does benefit kids in our school system. The program is so successful that we're now de- veloping it into the Seeds of Empathy for preschoolers. I'm proud to say that Roots of Empathy was first introduced to B.C. by my own school board, Vancou- ver school district. Last year 280 B.C. classrooms were involved, reaching over 7,000 students from kindergar- ten to grade eight.

I would like to commend the hard- working teachers and school districts that are incorpo- rating this valuable program into B.C. schools, but most especially, I want to congratulate Mary for a well- earned Order of Canada. SMALL BUSINESS M. Karagianis: October is Small Business Month. I would like to stand up today in the House to talk about

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 407 how we can celebrate the very backbone of the B.C. economy — the bread and butter industries of this province, if you would have it. In British Columbia 98 percent of the business is small business. It represents one million people that have been employed in small businesses. Fifty-eight percent of them are from th e private sector, and they represent private sector jobs. Thirty percent of the GDP in this province is produced by those small businesses. Last year $9.4 billion worth of merchandise was shipped out of British Columbia by small business.

They represent the self-employed, the mom-and- pops and almost all of the high-tech industry. A third of them are run by women. Often in the headlines we hear about big business, the big giants — forestry, oil and gas, mining. Yet small business is the support sys- tem around even those, many of them supplying the services and products to those industries. Small business is a huge player in tourism — in fact, it is the basis of many tourism businesses — in the film industry, in new technologies, the corner store, the winemaker, the salal collector, the tour guide, the farmer and the artisan.

In fact, some of these small businesses support communities that have been hit by things like softwood lumber and keep small communi- ties alive. These businesses are very important to this province. I would ask all members of the House to join in celebrating Small Business Month by avoiding the big multinational corporations. Buy local from your coffee shop, buy local from your business, employ a local service, and celebrate small business in British Colum- bia. PREBUDGET CONSULTATION B.

Lekstrom: It's my pleasure to rise today to speak about a very important aspect in which British Colum- bians can participate in the coming weeks. I rise today to speak about the Select Standing Committee on Fi- nance and Government Services, and the tour that we're about to embark on throughout British Colum- bia. This is an all-party committee consisting of mem- bers from both sides of the House. The most important aspect of this — I've been involved with it for a couple of years — is the ability to engage British Columbians in the upcoming 2006 budget. [1420] We are going to tour.

We have eight stops sched- uled around the province. Ce rtainly, time permitting, we would have liked to have more, but we're going to go out and…. It's not our job to go out and speak to British Columbians. It's our job to go out and listen to British Columbians — to listen to what their views are and what their choices are for the future budget of Brit- ish Columbia, what our ability will be in British Co- lumbia should we have the opportunity to invest more dollars and where those dollars should go. We talk about democracy, and I think it's fair to say that both sides are here for that very reason.

We want to make sure that we're here to listen to our constitu- ents, to listen to British Co lumbians. I can't think of a greater opportunity for all British Columbians to be- come involved in that proc ess than to come out and address the committee through the public consultation process. Failing that in their busy lives, if they aren't able to make it to one of the eight scheduled meetings, we do accept written submissions. There is an on-line ques- tionnaire that people can go on to let us know what their feelings are. There ar e 79 elected MLAs in this Legislature here today.

We bring the wishes of the people that elected us an d our constituents, but we w a n t t o h e a r m o s t i m p o r t a n t l y f r o m e a c h a n d e v e r y British Columbian who has the opportunity and can take the time. I want to thank the members that are on the com- mittee. I look forward to the tour coming up. Again, I want to express my thanks to all the people of British Columbia who I know will do everything they can. In closing, I'm just going to give a number that people can call in British Columbia if they're interested in attend- ing one of these hearings.

They can call 1-877-428-8337 — which is the Clerk's office — to participate, or they can go online at www.leg.bc.ca/budgetconsultations. I'm sure they're writing this down eagerly. I look forward to hearing fr om them, and again, it's going to be a privilege to report back to this House. HARTLAND LANDFILL D. Cubberley: It's my pleasure today to share an environmental achievement from my own constituency of Saanich South. I'm referring to the Hartland landfill, which is the final repository for this region's solid waste. But I'm not just talking trash.

Once little more than the local tip, today Hartland, which is operated by the capital regional district, is being recognized for innovation and excellence in waste management. Since the late 1980s a badly run private dump has become an engineered landfill with a strong commit- ment to waste diversion and impact reduction. Based on aggressive curbside recycling, bans on reusable or compostable materials, and environmental design and monitoring, Hartland recently won a silver award from the Solid Waste Association of North America.

Last week at UBCM, Hartland received two community excellence awards — one for an innovative gas-to- electricity conversion project, generating enough en- ergy for 1,600 homes; and another for its ground- breaking household hazardous waste collection pro- gram, which is the first of its kind in British Colum- bia. Entities like Hartland are working hard to divert waste and reduce impacts in order to achieve sustain- ability.

The stage for success was set by provincial ini- tiatives in the '90s, which set targets and placed re- sponsibility on producers and sellers for B.C.'s unique container deposit refund system and for paint, solvent and other recycling programs. Today we're overdue for new stewardship initiatives, such as the long-promised

408 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2005 mandatory recycling of e-wastes to keep heavy metals out of our landfills. [1425] I would like to ask the House to join me in celebrat- ing Hartland's achievements, while keeping in mind the need to redouble our own efforts in order to reach provincial goals. Oral Questions GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING ON EDUCATION C. James: My question is to the Minister of Finance. I would like the Minister of Finance to tell this House how much B.C. taxpayers are paying for the full-page partisan ad that's running in today's papers. Hon. C.

Taylor: It is essential that government communicate with parents, students and teachers about what we are doing at this particular time in gov- ernment and what we are seeing looking forward. There are very important serious issues, and it would be a mistake not to communicate our points of view and our actions with parents, teachers and kids. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a supplemental. C. James: I didn't hear an answer, so I'd like to ask the question again. We know that a series of ads isn't cheap. We saw the ads in today's paper.

Again I ask the Minister of Finance: how mu ch did the ads cost today? How much will the ad campaign cost in total? How many more ads is the minister expecting to run? Hon. C. Taylor: Again, I say that it is really an im- portant function of govern ment to communicate with people and to make sure that…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. Excuse me for a second. Listen to the answer, please. Hon. C. Taylor: I do believe it's an important func- tion of government to communicate with the commu- nity. That means parents; it means students; it also means teachers.

This is a very willful decision on our part to make sure that the conversation is there so that the community does understand what government is trying to do. This is a very important, very serious situation. We can't rely on others to try and interpret our point of view, and so we will do it. As the Leader of the Oppo- sition does know, when th e public accounts are pre- sented at the end of June, as I did this past year, I will produce the list of all the ads that are run throughout the year. Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Opposition has a fur- ther supplemental. C.

James: I heard the Finance Minister, when she stood up to deliver the interim budget — or the budget update, as she called it — talk about the fact that being Finance Minister in government was about choices. I didn't hear from the Financ e Minister what kind of a choice she made to spend the money on partisan ads rather than smaller class size s, rather than support for students with special needs, rather than support for school libraries. I'd like the Minister of Finance to ex- plain to this House how an expensive ad campaign helps the learning conditions for students in our schools. Hon. C.

Taylor: As I did say, I did make a choice — government did make a choice — to communicate with the public. We think it's absolutely essential that the community understands how seriously we take this situation. We are very concerned that since the provin- cial bargaining started, we have never been able to get a negotiated settlement with teachers. We believe, per- sonally, that the system is dysfunctional. We think that actions are going to have to be taken to improve the situation.

Along the way, of course, we're making sure that the funding is there for the education system as a whole — this year alone, $150 million more into the system and $700 million more in capital for our schools. We're spending more per student than ever in the history of our province. We're making sure that the funding is there, but the sy stem of negotiating is dys- functional, and we want it fixed. J. Kwan: We know what happened last time when the government said they would let us know how much the ad campaigns cost. It turns out it was $7 mil- lion over budget.

The Minister of Finance admitted that only three months ago her government secretly spent over $7 million on an advertising campaign prior to the election. She promised op enness; she promised ac- countability. Why is she already refusing to come clean on how much the government is spending on partisan political advertisements instead of putting that money into the education system? Hon. C.

Taylor: It's interesting to me that the oppo- sition is deciding to talk about our ability to communi- cate with the public on this very important issue rather than concentrating on the very serious issue before us, which is: how do we get teac hers negotiating in a way that works for everyone? That's the important issue. It really is important that we not use words in this House that suggest things were secret or hidden when the Auditor General himself has given a clean bill of health to all of our public accounts. [1430] Mr. Speaker: The member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant has a supplemental.

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 409 J. Kwan: After the fact, the numbers came in, but not at the time when the government was spending tax dollars on an advertising campaign to advance their own political gain. You know what, Mr. Speaker? It is a serious issue. You better believe it. Students and parents deserve to know how much the government is spending on spin-doctoring instead of putting money in the education system. According to the rate listings for the Vancouver Sun and the Prov- ince, these ads cost tens of thousands of dollars.

For the cost of one day's ad the government could buy a li- brary book for 4,500 students in the province. Can the minister justify to parents whose tax dol- lars just funded this PR campaign that this was a wor- thy use of their money? Hon. C. Taylor: Having sat through last night, I think that everyone who watched would understand why it is so essential for government to communicate directly with the public in order to get the facts out in the community. I will simply say that this is the largest education budget ever… Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Member. Hon. C.

Taylor: …in the history of the province and that, in fact, $10 million extra was put into books spe- cifically to make sure there were enough textbooks there — $150 million this year into the school budget and more funding per student than ever before in the history of the province. J. Horgan: The deadline for an advertisement in today's Province newspaper was Friday at noon — the same time that the fact-finder reported to the public and to the Minister of Labo ur on his findings and dis- cussions with the parties in the negotiation in question. My question is to the Minister of Finance.

Did you place those ads before you'd even had the opportunity to consider the fact-finder's report? Is it, in fact, a pre- conceived agenda on your part to bash teachers? Hon. C. Taylor: In fact, we prepared for many eventualities. We were hoping right up to the moment that the minister stood up in the House that there would be some last-minute possibility of negotiation, despite the fact-finder's report . I assure this House that the call to place the ad was placed after the minister stood up in the House to speak. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. J.

Horgan: Again to the Minister of Finance: does it cost more to place an ad when you can pull it at the last minute in a paper as large as the Vancouver Province? A full-page ad is pretty difficult to replace. I'm suggest- ing to the minister that this is a campaign preconceived well prior to the appointment of the fact-finder. Will the minister stand in her place today and tell us that she fully considered the report and deliberately ignored the opportunity to sit down and discuss class size and class composition with the B.C. Teachers Fed- eration, as the fact-finder pointed out? Hon. C.

Taylor: It really is extraordinary to me that the opposition does not want to talk about the real is- sue that we're here for, which is how to fix the system and help teachers negotiate. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, members. Hon. C. Taylor: I t i s e s s e n t i a l t h a t w e g o f o r w a r d and make sure this was an extraordinary situation. N o n e o f u s o n t h i s s i d e o f t h e H o u s e f e l t v e r y h a p p y about the fact that we had to bring in this legislation. We're concerned about it.

We think that somehow we have to find a way to talk to our teachers, make sure that we can negotiate going forward. So we believe this particular piece of legislation does allow us to buy the time, to hopefully change the system, so that next spring we can do this better. Therefore, it's essential when it's such an extraordinary situation that we communicate with the public. C. Puchmayr: I will talk about the reason we're here. I want to ask a question to the Finance Minister.

Here is a classroom condition facing one teacher in school district 67 in the Okanagan: two students desig- nated as special needs; five students with behavioral problems; one student has a severe speech impedi- ment; three others have hearing difficulties; two more have attention deficit disorder. I can't imagine how the teacher is expected to cope with this. Can the Minister of Finance tell this House how many special needs assistants this ad would have funded? [1435] Hon. S.

Bond: The reason this government commit- ted to adding $150 million, the largest single increase in over a decade, to the public education system is actu- ally to allow school districts to make the kinds of deci- sions that are in the best interests of their students. There is absolutely no way that a decision made in Vic- toria about a number of students that should be in a classroom is in the best inte rests of children in this province.

We believe that the people best suited to make that decision are locally elected trustees and par- ents, and in fact students and administrators, and that's precisely what we believe should happen. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. C. Puchmayr: The government has taken away from classrooms for four ye ars, and all the spin they can muster doesn't change the very real situation facing teachers and students. Here is another example. In a

410 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2005 grade two class, two studen ts require individual edu- cation plans, nine need lear ning assistance, and one is diagnosed with behavioral problems. Because of the lack of resources for these special needs students, and the teacher is spread too thin to meet the needs, nine other students are falling behind and failing to meet expectations in reading or writing. It seems that the Minister of Finance doesn't really understand the reality of the classrooms, but the Minis- ter of Education should.

Do es the Minister of Educa- tion believe that spending thousands of dollars on par- tisan ads is the best way to help students learn? Hon. S. Bond: First and foremost, this side of the H o u s e b e l i e v e s t h a t w h a t w e n e e d t o d o i s a s s u r e t h e parents of British Columbia that education is essential, something that members on the opposite side of the House refused to do during the last…. In fact, we care very much that classes reflect the students, the teachers that are available and the resources that are given to school districts. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Member. Hon. S.

Bond: We gave school districts resources so they, within that framework, could make the best deci- sions about the type of te acher and students and who should be in those classr ooms. We're seeing school districts add 1,600 new professi onals to the system as a result of the $150 million. R. Fleming: I don't want to see any ducking and weaving. I have a simple question for the Minister of Finance. You're in charge of the finances of this prov- ince. You should know the cost of the ad campaign. Tell this House what it is — very simply. Hon. C.

Taylor: C e r t a i n l y , w e w i l l s h o w a l l o f t h e costs of all of the ads that we choose to do this year when we release the public accounts and know the final numbers. I will release the list the way I did last year, at the end of June. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. R. Fleming: I'm not sure that answer is to wait and see until next year once the political heat has blown off. Surely, there have been meet ings about this. This cam- paign was well planned in advance, as members have said already. To the minister: can you give it to us in dollars and cents? [1440] Hon. C.

Taylor: I think that the opposition really doesn't want to deal with the legislation that's before us and doesn't want to put on record what their feelings are about this dispute. So I will say once again that the ad dollars will be released by public accounts and au- thorized by the Auditor General in June. I will say on this whole issue, where we 're pretending that a gov- ernment shouldn't talk about disputes…. I will simply show an ad that the NDP ra n during their dispute with doctors, and they placed the ad in the paper. M.

Karagianis: This morning at a quarter after seven I received a call from one of my constituents, a very dedicated teacher in my community, who talked to me about having 47 stud ents in her class. This teacher is very dedicated and takes her job very seri- ously, but has actually reac hed breaking point and is getting ready to give up on the system. So I would like the Minister of Finance to explain to us how a big, fancy ad campaign that ran in every major newspaper in this province helps these teachers dealing with class sizes like that. Hon. S.

Bond: You know, the members opposite may want to make it sound like class size doesn't mat- ter to this side of the House. Let me tell you what we have said we're going to do about class sizes in this province. For the first time we are going to ask school districts to record and be held accountable to the pub- lic, class by class. If there is a class like the one just de- scribed by the member oppo site, we'd be happy to have that discussion and ask why a decision was made about putting that number of students in a class.

We're going to have those numbers reported publicly, and we think that's the way that school boards should be held accountable. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. M. Karagianis: In fact, that class size is the direct r e s u l t o f d e c i s i o n s m a d e b y t h i s g o v e r n m e n t o v e r t h e last four years. I also have here an e-mail from another dedicated teacher in my community who spends liter- ally "hundreds of hours of volunteer time" in the school system.

This teacher now says: "I do it because I enjoy it, but if our government is not going to respect teach- ers, I think many teachers, including myself, will be forced to withdraw all of our volunteer services." Again, I would like to know how this big ad cam- paign satisfies the need of the children that this dedi- cated teacher is now going to withdraw services from. Hon. S. Bond: F i r s t o f a l l , w e k n o w t h a t t e a c h e r s make a difference in the lives of children every single day in this province. But the issue of class size is a complicated one, and there isn't a magic number.

The Leader of the Opposition shares a role that I had, or did in her past — the role of the school trustee charged with making very difficult decisions about class size. I want to quote from the Leader of the Opposition in terms of the view of class size, and actually we share that view. From the Victoria Times Colonist on October 1, 1999: "Kids don't come in class-size packages, and it is causing some real problems. No one disagrees that smaller classes are good for kids, but putting kids into classes based straight on numbers and not on educa- tional and social reasons…. I don't think that's good for

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 411 kids." I agree with the Leader of the Opposition, and we agreed that class size was so essential that we put it in legislation to guarantee that. B. Simpson: I guess I'm left wondering whether or not the Minister of Finance actually knows how much this ad campaign is costing her. Maybe that's why we're not getting the figures released today. Does the Minister of Finance know what the plan is for these ads and what the full cost is for these ads? Does the minister know what the cost is and the plan for the ads? Hon. C.

Taylor: I will say once again that, of course, this is an evolving situation. We will know the full numbers at the end of the year. They will all be re- leased in public accounts . The Auditor General will have every opportunity to lo ok at them and question them. [1445] Let me paint a picture here, because even though the opposition doesn't want to talk about what's really going on, the fact is we've got parents at home who are sitting there wondering what's happening to their chil- dren at schools. They've heard all of these threats about teachers withdrawing services.

They don't know how their kids are going to be taken care of if the teachers pull out. They don't know how this is going to elevate. They're worried about their kids. They're worried about the education, and that's why we felt it was such a serious situation that we would step in with this leg- islation. The point of talking directly to parents, to stu- dents and to teachers is so that everyone understands where this government is coming from, what we're planning to do and what we're hoping for in the future in terms of trying to fix a system that is clearly dys- functional. Mr.

Speaker: The member has a supplemental. B. Simpson: The teachers in my community work very hard to deliver quality education to the students. Those teachers are calling my office, and they're telling us how difficult it is for them to keep their own morale up to deliver that quality education. Yet this govern- ment, rather than addressing that issue, chooses to spend money on partisan ads. Will this minister clarify for this House whether or not she had a plan on Friday, as she indicated earlier in this discussion, for a course of action? She's now telling us that she doesn't know what the full plan is.

What are the costs of the plan, if she had it on Friday? What will those costs be? Why won't the minister put that money into the education system rather than partisan advertis- ing? Hon. M. de Jong: The member seems mystified by what is taking place here, so maybe we should take a moment and review. In case he wasn't paying atten- tion, we have just gone through a period of a year and a half of a labour dispute where two parties, which were supposed to be sitting down and negotiating to- gether, haven't been doing that — although apparently they met 35 times. And how many items did they agree on?

Not a single one; not a single item. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Minister. Members, let's listen to the answer, please. Go ahead, minister. Hon. M. de Jong: So, confronted by that reality, we had a choice. We had a choice to allow that drift to con- tinue, to listen to the threats of escalating job activity. Parents are out there wondering: is my child going to be in school tomorrow? Or can we act?

Can we act in a way that is minimally intrusive, trying to preserve for these parties some hope for getting down and doing something they've never done before: negotiate a col- lective agreement without in terference from govern- ment? That's the objective. That's why we've got a bill before us. That's why we're appointing an industrial inquiry commission to re-establish a bargaining struc- ture that stands some prospect of negotiating a final agreement without the intrusion of government. That's what this is all about. M. Farnworth: This isn't about whether or not you're running an advertisin g campaign.

This is about how much it is costing. The public wants to know. The question to the Finance Minister is: how much is this costing? Do you as Finance Minister know what is going on in your own ministry? Do you know the budget for this campaign? If you don't, say so. If you do, stop hiding the number and tell the public the amount of money you are spending on this advertising campaign. Hon. C. Taylor: I hope that those who are listening to this question period come away with two very clear ideas. One is that the opposi tion is refusing to express their opinions about this legislation.

The opposition is refusing to talk about what we can do to protect our k i d s a n d k e e p t h e m i n s c h o o l s , a n d t o h a v e i t a s a n essential service.

They're refusing to say what they w o u l d d o i f t h e y w e r e i n t h i s p o s i t i o n w h e r e , o n c e again, teachers are unable to negotiate with govern- ment. [1450] The second thing is that they are taking a lot of time to criticize the government for doing this and for hav- ing communications directly with the public, even though they did the same thing when they were in government — almost as if they don't plan on being in government again, because obviously they wouldn't ever spend any money communicating with the public. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. M.

Farnworth: The Minister of Finance said she'd paint a picture. Well, I'll paint a picture for her, and

412 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2005 that is of a ministry that overspent its budget on adver- tising by $7 million, of a government that has failed to fund energy costs in education; that has failed to fund teacher costs, increased salary costs; that has failed to fund MSP premiums and do wnloaded them onto the education system. Now the government says it's okay to fund an ad- vertising program. It's a question of priorities, and the public wants to know: how much are you spending on this advertising campaign?

Not what you're saying, not how many papers you're running in, not all those things — how much are you spending? Come clean, and stop hiding the numbers. Hon. C. Taylor: I think there are probably days such as this one, where the opposition regrets that they ever asked for 30 minutes of question period. They clearly are unwilling to talk about the legislation. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members on both sides, the minister has the floor. Hon. C. Taylor: They are clearly unable or unwill- ing to talk about what their po sition is on the very seri- ous legislation that has been brought in.

The answer to their question is that the numbers for this campaign will be released with all other communications num- bers at the end of June in the public accounts. G. Robertson: Well, as I add it up over here, we have 18 questions and zero answers right now. I will remind the Minister of Finance that we have lots of time to debate this bill. Don't worry. We will be debat- ing this bill. There are 33 pe ople sitting over here who are going to pour themselves into holding you ac- countable and debating this bill. We have been asking a si mple question 18 different ways, and we're not getting any answers.

What this clearly demonstrates is that this government is not open to the public. This government does not support students and parents and teachers and the quality of our education system. This minister does not know what her own ministry is spending. She spends on ads rather than education. My final attempt at a clear answer: will the minister please tell us how much she is intending on spending on this advertising campaign, so that we can move on with more questions that the public of British Colum- bia wants us to pursue? Hon. C.

Taylor: Just because the opposition doesn't like the answer doesn't mean there isn't an answer. GOVERNMENT SUPPORT FOR ABORIGINAL WOMEN S. Fraser: I, for one, appreciate the 30-minute ques- tion period. Today marks th e first anniversary of the Amnesty International report entitled Stolen Sisters. The report focused on the horrendous violence experienced by aboriginal women in Canada, especially in western Canada.

My question will be to the Premier: can he explain what specific resources his government has brought to bear in response to this report to ensure that aboriginal women's rights and security are protected in B.C.? [1455] Hon. I. Chong: Our government is committed to ensuring the safety of women who are escaping vio- lence and children who are witnessing abuse. Our gov- ernment has provided the la rgest increase in over a decade to those direct essential services for those women, for those children. We have increased services for counselling, for outreach.

We will continue to pro- vide those services, and we will focus our taxpayers' dollars on those direct essential services. [End of question period.] Motions without Notice REFERRAL OF REPORTS TO AND POWERS OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE Hon. M. de Jong: By leave, I have a motion dealing with the Select Standing Committee on Public Ac- counts. I'm proposing not to read the entire motion. The motion refers to a number of reports of the Auditor General to the select standing committee. It refers those reports to the Select Stan ding Committee on Public Accounts, which hasn't yet had the opportunity to re- view them.

As well, the prac tice in the past in this House has been to allow the Public Accounts Commit- tee to sit while the House is in session and to meet elsewhere should they desire to do so, and this is also reflected in the motion. I have tabled a signed copy of that motion. [1. The following reports of the Auditor General of Brit- ish Columbia deposited with the Speaker of the Legisla- tive Assembly be referred to the Select Standing Commit- tee on Public Accounts: a. Auditor General Report No. 7, 2003/2004 Building Better Reports: Our Review of the 2002/03 Annual Service Plan Reports of Government (March 2004) b.

Government of BC and Office of the Auditor General Report An Assurance Program for BC: A Progress Report on the February 2002 Recommenda- tions of the Public Accounts Committee of BC Re- lated to Building Better Reports (September 2004) c. Auditor General Report No. 6, 2004/2005 Leading the Way: Adopting Best Practices in Gov- ernment Financial Reporting – 2003/2004 (No- vember 2004) d. Auditor General Report No. 7, 2004/ 2005 Monitoring the Government's Finances (November 2004)

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 413 e. Auditor General Report No. 8, 2004/2005 Fol- low-up of 2002/2003 Report 5: Managing Contami- nated Sites on Provincial Lands (November 2004) f. Auditor General Report No. 9, 2004/2005 Fol- low-up of Two Health Risk Reports (December 2004) g. Auditor General Report No. 10, 2004/2005, Building a Strong Public Service: Reassessing the Quality of the Work Environment in British Columbia's Public Service (February 2005) h.

Auditor General Review of Partnership BC's report Achieving Value for Money: Abbotsford Re- gional Hospital Care Centre Project (February 2005) i. Auditor General Report No. 11, 2004/2005, Follow-up of A Review of Government Oversight of Multi-Employer Public Sector Pension Plans British Columbia (February 2005) j. Auditor General Report No. 12, 2004/2005, Third Follow-up Report of Management Consulting Engagements in Government (March 2005) k. Auditor General Report No. 13, 2004/2005, Building Momentum for Results-based Manage- ment: A Study about Managing for Results in Brit- ish Columbia (March 2005) l.

Auditor General Report No. 1, 2005/2006, Fol- low-up of the Recommendations of the Select Stand- ing Committee on Public Accounts contained in its Fourth Report of the 3rd Session of the 36th Parlia- ment: Earthquake Prepared ness; Performance Audit (May 2005) m. Auditor General Report No. 2, 2005/06, Joint Follow-up of 2001/2002: Report 1 Managing Inter- face Fire Risks and Firestorm 2003 Provincial Re- view (May 2005) n. Auditor General Report No. 3, 2005/2006, Audit of the Government's Corporate Accounting System:

Part 1 (June 2005) o. 2004/2005 Annual Report of the Auditor General of British Columbia, Serving the Legisla- tive Assembly and the People of British Columbia (June 2005) p. Auditor General Report No. 4, 2005/2006, Building Better Reports: Our Assessment of the 2003/04 Annual Service Plan Reports of Govern- ment (July 2005) q. Auditor General Report No. 5, 2005/2006, Keeping the Decks Clean: Managing Gaming Integ- rity Risks in Casinos (July 2005) 2.

That Reports of the Auditor General deposited with the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly dur- ing the Thirty-eighth Parliament be deemed re- ferred to the Select Standing Committee on Public Accounts. 3. That the Select Standing Committee on Public Ac- counts be the committee referred to in sections 2, 6, 7, 10, 13 and 14 of the Auditor General Act. In addition to the powers previously conferred upon the Select Standing Committee on Public Accounts, the Committee be empowered: (

a) to appoint of their number, one or more subcom- mittees and to refer to such subcommittees any of the matters referred to the Committee; (

b) to sit during a period in which the House is ad- journed, during the recess after prorogation until the next following Session and during any sitting of the House; (

c) to adjourn from place to place as may be conven- ient; and (

d) to retain personnel as required to assist the Com- mittee, and shall report to the House as soon as pos- sible, or following any adjournment, or at the next following Session, as the case may be; to deposit the original of its reports with the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly during a period of adjournment and upon resumption of the sittings of the House, the Chair shall present all reports to the Legislative Assembly.] Leave granted. Motion approved. Orders of the Day Hon.

M. de Jong: I call in this chamber continued second reading debate on Bill 12, and in Committee A continued debate on the estimates of the Ministry of Economic Development. Second Reading of Bills TEACHERS' COLLECTIVE AGREEMENT ACT (continued) J. Horgan: I just want to resume my comments and remarks on Bill 12. I will take the opportunity while the member for Vancouver-Langar a is here to highlight that I have been talking about…. Mr. Speaker: Member, don't refer to members that are here and not here. J.

Horgan: I'll direct my comments towards the Minister of Finance while I have the opportunity and just remind her and the rest of the House that we have every intention of debating the substance of this legis- lation. That's our purpose and our function here on this side of the House. What we intended to do in question period today was extract a single number , a dollar figure, and we weren't able to do that. By the count of the member from Fairview: 20 questions, no answers.

Getting back to the legislation, it seems quite clear to me, based on comments we've heard over the past number of hours, that there was never any intention by this government to seriously address the questions of class size and class composition which were put for- ward by the B.C. Teachers Federation. I want to summarize my remarks on this bill at this time by saying that the fundamental objective of us in this chamber, and as legislators across this province, is to ensure that our children get the best education possible.

It's our view on this side of the House that in order to do that, you have to have some comprehension of what's going on inside that classroom. It's our view, ag ain, that the best way to find out what's going on in that classroom is to talk to teachers. Yes, talk to parents. Yes, talk to students. But let's talk to the professionals. Le t's talk to the people who

414 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2005 went to university, got an education, pursued a career — a profession, a vocation, a passion — to educate our children. Let's talk to those people. Let's hear what they have to say about class size, about class composition, about the importance of teac hers' aides, about the im- portance of teacher-librarians, the importance of coun- sellors and other teaching assistants in the classroom right across this province. [1500] It's going to be a long week, Mr. Speaker. This is a contentious piece of legislation. We all understand that.

It's going to be a long week, Mr. Speaker. This is a con- tentious piece of legislation. We all understand that. Clearly, the people on the other side of the House are not interested in addressing the issue today. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members, could you take your con- versations outside the House, please. Go ahead. J. Horgan: It's clear that the members on the other side of the House are not interested in addressing the issue today. In fact, I heard comments from the minis- ter just a few moments ago that their intention is to push this off into the future. "Let's continue to fan the flames.

Let's have educators in classrooms demoral- ized, undervalued, disrespected, and then we'll deal with it again sometime in the future." That's not why I was elected. That's not why my constituents sent me here. T h e y s e n t m e h e r e t o a d - dress problems as they emerge. We have a problem now. It's facing us clearly, square in the face. Teachers are unhappy. That's going to have a negative impact on parents and a negative impact on students. Why don't we do something about it? What is un- reasonable about that? What is unreasonable about saying: yeah, we've got a problem?

Again, the guy from Malahat–Juan de Fuca is talking sense one more time today. The second time today — talking sense. A glimmer of insight into my psyche: I want to solve problems. The Minister of Labour — I'm sure he wants to solve problems as well. He's highlighted some statistics about the absence of progress on this file. If I were sit- ting in his chair, I would ha ve inserted myself in that process. I would have trie d to find common ground. I would have tried to bring the parties together. The fact-finder pointed out an opportunity. He said: "Let's have a parallel process.

Let's sit down at a second table, a different forum, a venue — whatever you want to call it, whatever word you want to use to describe it — and let's talk about the fundamental question of what's going on in the classroom." How are we going to get the best outcome for our kids? How are we going to be the most educated and most literate jurisdiction in North America? I hesitate to say "bar none," because I think that's supposed to be on one of the other phrases — bar none. I think it's an environmental goal to be bar none, and that puts me in mind of slot machines. I'll leave that, because that's not my passion.

That's the passion of the people on the other side. W h a t w e n e e d t o d o d u r i n g t h e c o u r s e o f t h i s d e - bate is clearly outline what's important, what are our p r i o r i t i e s , w h a t d o w e w a n t t o s e e i n o u r e d u c a t i o n system today. Today we need to solve an impasse. What the government chose to do today is push that impasse on into the future and in fact, I would argue, inflame the situation by saying to teachers yet again: "Your views on these important issues that are happen- ing in the classroom don't matter. We don't care. We're going to just press on.

In fact, we're going to put to- gether very expensive ad campaigns." I would think, with priority placement in the Vancouver Sun, the Van- couver Province and the Times Colonist, right beside the editorial pages where they're getting praise for their policies on these questions, it's a few bucks for that — a few bucks, indeed. It was startling, I think, after the Minister of Fi- nance quickly responded, when the public accounts were tabled in the summer …. She quickly responded to media overtures. "What happened here?

Where did all this money go, and what did you spend it on?" Within the hour she was back in the press theatre ad- dressing that question. Yet here where we have a new era of cooperation and consultation and respect from one side of the House to the other, we ask a simple question 18 times, by the count of the member from Fairview — 18 times and zero answers. The zero we're talking about here probably was followed by numerous other zeros when we got into multi-thousands of dollars on a partisan ad campaign designed to push a political agenda that is at its core anti-teacher, anti-u nion.

It's unacceptable to people on this side of the House. We're not going to stand for it. You're going to hear more about that over the next number of days. I'm smiling at my friend from Nelson-Creston, be- cause I'm reminded that he is my friend, and I'm very pleased to be sitting in this House with him today as well as with all the others that are here and those on the other side whom I've struck up a relationship with over the past number of week s. I know that the people on the other side, as I said ea rlier this morning, in their core want to solve problems too, but they're ham- strung.

Their hands are tied by the spin doctors of the public affairs bureau, which grows like a fungus. [1505] I look at the list of staff over there, and I say, my goodness. The words "friends and insiders"…. I recall hearing — and perhaps the Minister of Labour could remember saying this on an occasion or two in previ- ous parliaments — that the previous government was overflowing with friends and insiders, hacks, ne'er-do- wells. "We're going to have a merit commissioner," they said. They appointed a merit commissioner, and then I think they fired her not that long ago without cause — sent her on her way.

I don't believe they have a merit commissioner now. Maybe they do, but I keep seeing the orders-in-council come through.

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 415 I see orders-in-council for the public affairs bureau — more people to monitor the opposition, more people to take every word that's spewing out of my mouth, including my red cardigan, including my homage to Bob Denver. They're going to throw it back at me at some point over the next four years. Well, good on you guys at public affairs. You're doing a great job. T h e m e m b e r f r o m B u r r a r d t e l l s m e t h a t m y c a r d i - gan was blue, and I have no reason to doubt that, be- cause I can't tell one from the other.

The fact remains that what I'm saying here today is being eagerly lis- tened to by droves of people in a building across the street for no good reason. I'd send them all home. The members on the opposite side are all very intel- ligent, thoughtful people. You don't need hacks hold- ing your hands. Stand up and say what's on your minds. Say: "I don't want to look at the polls." The poll- ster's not very good, as it turns out, because the people in my neighbourhood think you're profoundly off base on this. Interjection. J. Horgan: I won't get into that. This is the problem with this heckling.

I just respond to it instinctively, intuitively. Someone opens their mouth, and I'm going down another river. I don't know why that is. The member from Cloverdale and the member from Bur- rard have got me on a string. I can't help myself. This is an important bill, and I don't want to be overly glib, but again, as I sa id, I'm afflicted with this. I went to Europe to see my roots some years ago. I took my kids on a tour, and we went to Blarney, not surpris- ingly. I had the opportunity to kiss the Blarney stone, and it appears that it works.

Also, like a good Irishman, if someone says something to me, I'll either break into a tune or break into tears. I'm not sure which it'll be at this point in time. I want to say that as I wrap up debate on this ques- tion, from my perspective, the issue is about respect. The issue is about an opportunity to seize the day: Carpe diem, as they said. Robin Williams taught me that. I know another little bit of Latin. Semper ubi sub ubi is "Always wear underwear" — another good thing to remember when you're going out in the morning. That's what my mother taught me.

The question we have before us is: do we want to take an opportunity when it presents itself and do good? Or do we want to ignore challenges and say no, no, no? Our historic positi on is that we don't like teachers. They are suing us ; we're suing them. We're calling them this; they're cal ling us that. It goes back and forth. The historic positions are boring. Our con- stituents don't want to hear about it anymore. They're tired of it. They say: "Oh, there they go again. The guy from Malahat–Juan de Fuca is talking sense." It throws everybody else off. I understand that.

I know that the spinners at public affairs are going: "How do we deal with this guy, this member? He's talking sense. What we want to talk about is the mes- sage box. The polling says: 'Bash the teachers. Porridge down their throats.' That's what it says. That's what we should do." I appeal, once again, to members on the opposite side: think for yourselves. Say: "How can we have the most literate, most educated jurisdiction in North America with unhappy educators?

How does that happen?" I heard some of the members earlier saying that par- ents are saying: "Where are my kids going to be tomor- row?" Do you know what parents are saying, truly, in their constituency right now? They are worrying about what they're going to get for dinner tonight. They're wor- rying about what they're going to do. Are the kids going to be in bed on time? Those are real issues. They're saying: "Oh gee, I sure hope they solve this. I'm sympathetic to my teachers. I want the government to do the right thing. Why won't they do that?

Why won't they grasp common sense, even for a nanosec- ond?" Just for a moment let's embrace a good idea — the good idea that the fact-finder pointed out: let's sit down and talk. Gosh, what a revelation. Let's sit down and solve a problem. We sent 79 people to this chamber. One of them — you, sir, an august member sitting in the chair to make sure that we're civil with each other and to ensure that I don't say the name Horgan when I could say Malahat– Juan de Fuca…. I will contin ue to do that from this point on, wiser for the opportunity this morning.

The challenge we all have is to take an opportunity when it presents itself and do the right thing. The right thing for the Minister of Labour to do right now is to yank this bill off the floor of this chamber and make a phone call, to get together with his cabinet colleagues and sit down with teachers and solve the problem. Thank you for the opportunity. I look forward to discussing this again before the end of the week. C. Puchmayr: I rise in opposition to this bill as well. I just wanted to start by backing up a little bit about some comments made earlier by the Labour Minister. [S.

Hawkins in the chair.] When he introduced this again for second reading today, he spoke about having no satisfaction in intro- ducing this bill. He spoke about the alleged failure of the collective bargaining process, and he went as far as to claim that to say he's disappointed is an understate- ment. [1510] This process was designed to fail from the outset. There was no ability provided to the parties to come to an agreement when the mand ate by the government to the negotiators was to not discuss wages, not discuss classroom conditions or learning conditions. It was designed to fail.

I commend the teachers for going to the table 35 times and trying to convince the government that there was a need to address the serious issues in the class- room that we're seeing toda y. Thirty-five times they tried to put that message across — to say there are

416 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2005 needs in our classrooms that have to be addressed so that our children are not left behind and so that certain children aren't benefiting while other children fail in an education system that is no t adequately funded with learning assistants and cla ss sizes that are reasonable, class sizes where our children are not left behind. Boy, they tried. Believe me. I've spoken to teachers, and their primary concerns are with the children.

They're seeing firsthand the irreparable damage that is being done by the fact that class sizes are too large and that adequate assistance and learning assistants are not being provided. The government needs to address the working conditions in the classroom and address them for the needs of the children and for the needs of those par- ents, because those children that are left behind today are going to cost society tomorrow, and they are going to cost society a lot more than the cost of a learning assistant — even a lot more than those big full-page ads, I might add.

Society will pay dearly for the lack of education of children with needs in the classroom, and there are a multitude of needs. As I go on, I will read some comments later about what teachers are saying in my community and what the concerns are in my com- munity. Even the courts have agreed that the issue of class sizes is relevant in this discussion. It's relevant in the collective bargaining process. In 2002, with the enactm ent of the Education Ser- vices Collective Agreement Act and the Public Educa- tion Flexibility and Choice Act….

I like it when the government uses words like "flexibility" and "choice." It's kind of like when they use words like "earth, land and water protection," and then we see a gutting of protection in those fields. Every time I see these types of words in legislation, the antennas rise. You have to start to look between the lines, because surely you will see that the actual term of the legislation is the begin- ning of the spin that will follow as they go on and on and try to convince you that this is something that's good for you as you're taking your cod liver oil. The question of class sizes.

I'm going to quote from a decision in February 2005 by the Hon. Mr. Justice Lambert in the Court of Appeal, the highest court in this province: It seems to me that it is significant that the subject of class sizes was negotiated in collective bargaining between teachers and school boards before the 2002 legislation and was clearly, in the past, regarded by the parties as a term and condition of employment.

The fact that the sub- ject of class sizes can no longer be negotiated nor have any place in the collective agreement of the parties does not make that subject any less a term or a condition that affects the employment relationship…So I regard class sizes and aggregate class size as a significant part of the employment relationship. [1515] Who can doubt that? Who can say that class size isn't a significant part of the employment relationship, when we see the detrimental effects that we have when we don't address the needs in our classes, the needs of the specific children in our classes?

By refusing to negotiate class sizes, by unilaterally imposing terms and conditio ns of employment on our teachers, this government is not only going against the principles of common sense and fairness; it is also overriding this province's highest legal authority.

During the struggle by the negotiators for the teachers to communicate the needs of children to the negotiators for the government — while this process of supposedly free collective bargaining was ongoing — we continued to hear on the radio and to see on the television the Premier and the Education Minister do- ing the damage of the collective bargaining process, doing the spin. We continued to hear it over and over and over again — all part of the method of ensuring that there wasn't a collectiv e agreement, throwing fuel on the fire of collective bargaining.

This is not only a breach of the free collective bar- gaining process, in my opinion; it is an absolute breach of collective bargaining. It's no different than an indi- vidual…. There are individu als on the other side and individuals on this side that have negotiated a contract — maybe for themselves, maybe in business, maybe the Finance Minister in her previous line of work. Surely she's negotiated a contract. Surely you don't work for corporations without going to the table and saying: "I want holidays. I want benefits.

I want…." The Finance Minister might have needed an automobile, a fuel allowance, a pension, a clause for retirement. These are all parts of bargaining. Collective bargaining is when you get your repre- sentatives elected to go before the bargainer, the em- ployer, and bargain on your behalf. There's a consensus formed: these are the needs. You send them forward. They negotiate a collective ag reement. They come back with a tentative agreement. You vote on it. You either accept it, or you reject it and go back to the bargaining table.

At the end of the day, 99.9 percent of the time if not even more, most collective agreements are achieved. When the executive negotiates a collective agree- ment and two years later they want more money, what do they do? They go back to the table. They negotiate their own agreement. If they're not satisfied with that agreement, what do they do ? They move their services elsewhere. That's the way they strike. They say: "I will go elsewhere where I will get what I deserve." I fear that is happening in this province. The seeds we're sowing now….

Tearing up collective agreements with the education system is merely creating an exodus of skilled knowledge that is going to leave this prov- ince and is going to leave us in a serious situation in the very near future. Collective bargaining isn't anything new. It's been going on for over 100 years in this province, if you look at the records, at some of the old historic collective agreements. I've been invo lved in many collective agreements at many different locations. I never negoti- ated a strike; I pride myself on that.

I know that when two parties sit down and they're genuine and they be- lieve there is a deal to be had, there will be a deal. When you have issues of lockouts or strikes, one party

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 417 comes to the table with a posi tion that is inflexible and ends in a dispute. Then what it needs is some time for the dispute to take its course during the process of a strike or a lockout, getting together again and negotiat- ing the contract for the best interests of everybody. [1520] The best contracts to negotiate are the ones where the two parties, at the end of the day, shake hands across the table and say: "It was tough slugging, but here we are. We have a collective agreement.

Now let's go back and do what we need to do." Those are the best kinds of collective agreemen ts, but those can only be achieved with open mandates. There is not an open mandate by this government to their negotiators to even come close to that type of a collective bargaining environment — not even close. In this province we've seen collective agreements torn up. We've seen legislation imposed. We see a knowledge base that our young people are bypassing.

Young people that I've spoken to are saying: "Why would I want to be a teacher and be treated like this?" Young people — who used to be proud to go into the profession of nursing, who used to feel motivated to go into a profession of nursing or health care — are say- ing: "Why would I want to go do this? Why would I want to be exposed to this?" They come out of univer- sity with student loans — tens of thousands of dollars, paying them back for years and years — and for what? So they can be exposed to this type of environment created by this government across from me, Madam Speaker?

This is our knowledge fo r the future. These are the children who are going to look after our parents and ourselves when we're in health care. These are the chil- dren who are going to teac h our grandchildren. Where are we going to go when people aren't entering those fields because (

a) they're not competitive here as in other jurisdictions and (

b) they've been stripped of the basic right of free collective bargaining, a right that people fought for in the free world? People fought for that right. Think of the society that we have today and the standard of living that we have today. Then think of a society prior to collective bargaining. The gains that are made help everyone. They benefit everyone. They benefit our society. They benefit small business. They benefit the car lot down the road, the barber shop. How many banks do we have on every street cor- ner?

How many would we have, had there never been an ability for people to bargain collectively to get a decent wage and benefit, where they would even need a bank to put their money? That wasn't the case before collective bargaining. History shows that. You got your money at the end of the week, if you were lucky. It was required. You carried it in your pocket, you bought groceries, and you tried to put a roof over your head. Once there was a fair and equitable distribution of that wealth, we started to see society flourish. Societies flourish when there is a fair distribution of wealth. It's good for business.

It makes business sense. It's just a logical economic driver to have fair, balanced distribu- tion. It's also a good economic driver to have educated children — children who can go out and stimulate the economy by having their skills utilized and by having their skills pay them. Reward them for their skills while they're teaching our children and while they're pulling that child with a learning disability from the ranks of the back of the ro om, bringing that child up and finding that the child ac tually has skill. That child has knowledge.

That child has something that was left behind because a learning assi stant wasn't able to find it. Just think of the value of saving that one child from that back row of the classroom, bringing them up and finding out what that child can produce for society. That child would probably not become homeless, would not need social assistance and could benefit in acquiring a skill that contributes to the great economy that we can build by having everyone with the same abilities treated equally. [1525] That's not happening right now. That absolutely is not happening.

We have children that are falling through the cracks. We heard earlier from one of the speakers about his experiences in school. You know, what I see is some schools…. When I grew up, some schools seemed to have a different socioeconomic standard depending on where the neighbourhood was. I actually grew up in a school that was in a very devalued neighbourhood, a poor neighbourhood. The school is no longer there. The area where I went to school has become an industrial zone.

I sometimes would sit there and count the kids — who went to my school and were in my class or in classes around my age group — t h a t n e v e r m a d e i t , that didn't survive. We had large classes in those schools, and I finally thought we were getting away from that. I started see- ing flickers of hope when I started hearing about learn- ing assistants, the duties an d roles that they play and the saving to society by having learning assistants — being able to find that child before the child becomes a drug addict or alcoholic or be fore that child ends up in prison. That's a huge saving to society.

You can't quantify that. It's almost impossible to fathom. The cost of one learning assistant for one year doesn't equate to the cost of paying the medical costs of one person for one year who has full-blown AIDS. Think about that. Think about the value of investing in our children. And think about the teachers who see this every day and of how frustrated they are when they start to see these children fall through the cracks and th ey see that they have no ability to reach out and pull them out. You can pull from the gutter, but you can never pull from the grave.

When I hear from the other side, "People are com- ing back to British Columbia," well, people weren't leaving British Columbia — not any more so than they are now. I know young people that are leaving British Columbia because they can't get a proper apprentice-

418 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2005 ship in this province. They get part of an apprentice- ship. They get: "I'm a framer , but I can't be a Red Seal carpenter." They are leaving this province and going to Alberta. I see electricians that are leaving for Alberta because they are getting paid better money in Alberta. I see contracts that are opening up…. We're losing peo- ple. We need to do something. I even heard the health au thority talk at one of the first functions I attended wi th the Health Minister.

I think one of the members fr om the other side brought up a concern about losing skills in the trades in the hospitals. Losing those skills is costing society, because if you lose a boiler engineer in a hospital, you have to contract that duty out. If you lose an elevator me- chanic, you have to contract that duty out. It costs way more to contract that out, and there are horror stories with that, with losing skilled workers in our health care system, losing them to other jurisdictions that pay a fair wage. It's no wonder their economies are flourish- ing.

We can't have our youth passing by these very valuable trades, education and health care. When the minister says that he's disappointed in the collective bargaining process, he should be disap- pointed, but he shouldn't be disappointed in the process, because he didn't give his side a mandate to bargain. He did a good thing, and I commend the Minister of Labour for getting Mr. Connolly in as a fact-finder. I thought, well there, that's great. You know, we've been saying: "Let's get active. Let's find ways of resolving this." He gets Mr. Connolly in, and I'm thinking that this is part of the new relationship.

We're going to suggest ideas, and maybe the government will actually look at some ideas and maybe entertain some of these. [1530] Mr. Connolly comes back, and when I read his re- port immediately after it wa s released…. He says that both teachers and the province agree that educators should be part of any dialogue that sets guidelines on class sizes. Bingo! Mr. Connolly stated that as a fact- finder on behalf of the Labour Minister.

Well, with my collective bargaining experience, if I were deadlocked and the company were deadlocked and we split from the table and I hired a fact-finder that came in and made such a move on such a signifi- cant part of a collective agreement, I would feel that the deal was right around the corner.

I would be very pleased to go back to the table, because I would under- stand that the most significant issue in my collective bargaining process had just been addressed in a posi- tive manner, in a manner that upholds the Lambert decision, in a manner that satisfied what the teachers have been telling us and what the parents have been telling us. I would be saying, and I was saying: "Great, we can get a deal here. For once we can show that the new relationship works." And it's not just a relation- s h i p w i t h e a c h o t h e r .

I t ' s a r e l a t i o n s h i p w i t h o u r e m - ployees and with the employers. What happens with this? Nothing. Legislation. Why? I thought we had a breakthrough, and they im- posed legislation. They didn't want a deal. They didn't want a deal, and that's why that ad was sitting there in the mailrooms of all those newspapers. I submit to this House that it was possibly there before Mr. Connolly's assessment came forward, and that saddens me. It saddens me, that kind of money being spent, when really there was a go-forward position put for- ward by Mr.

Connolly, a go-forward position that could have — maybe with some assistance on this side and some hard work on the other side and some getting down and dirty with the bargainer and with the employees — for once broken this deadlock and said: "You're right. We need to address class sizes. We need to address learning as sistance. We need to have an education system that le aves no one behind." That d i d n ' t h a p p e n . W h y ? I c a n o n l y a s s u m e t h a t s o m e - body wanted to pick a fight. They did, and they con- tinued to do so, and it's shameful.

It's absolutely shameful that we can't bargain because the govern- ment is only too pleased to implement legislation. What does that do to the working conditions in the class? I think about the teachers that you remember in your mind, who were really excited, who were ener- getic, who really cared about students, and the stu- dents sitting there saying: "God, someday I want to be a teacher. You know, that teacher is so great. I wish I could give that energy to future generations, to other children." That's not happening anymore. It's shameful. It's not happening anymore.

Young people are leaving that field, and we're going t o b e i n f o r a n e d u c a t i o n crisis in the very near future. The International Labour Organization, which is a part of the United Nations, stationed in Geneva, Swit- zerland…. I'm going to just give you some quotes from them. The International Labour Organization has ruled that back-to-work contract-breaking legislation passed in 2002 by the B.C. Liberal government contravenes ILO convention 87, "freedom of association and protec- tion of the right to organize." This is the United Na- tions.

This is a significant bo dy in this world that sees the detriment of these kind s of actions and that has seen the negative impacts on societies with these types of actions. That's why they're speaking out. [1535] The convention on freedom of association was signed by Canada and all ten provinces many years ago, in 1972. In uncharacteri stically blunt language the ILO has ruled that the B.C. Liberal government repeat- edly violated the rights of thousands of public sector employees by refusing to negotiate contracts and by using legislation to arbitrarily enforce its will.

The offending legislation includes Bill 2, the Health Care Services Continuation Act; Bill 15, the Health Care Services Collective Agreemen ts Act; the Skills Devel- opment and Labour Statutes Amendment Act, which made education an essential service; Bill 27, the Educa- tion Services Collective Agreement Act imposed on employers, the last offer of a contract to teachers; Bill 28, Public Education Flexibility and Choice Act, which eliminated rights on class size, and other guarantees, to service students from kindergarten to post-secondary

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 419 — which I've been speaking so much about; Bill 29, the Health and Social Services Delivery Improvement Act. Again, we get these words: "Delivery Improvement Act." How do you improve delivery? Rip up contracts and hire workers at $8 an hour to clean your hospitals when you should be hiring microbiologists. Education sector recommendations. Bill 18. "Work- ers in this sector enjoy and exercise the right to strike in accordance with the freedom-of-association principles." That was taken away.

They amended Bill 27 to allow employees to negotiate issues that have been imposed unilaterally by legislation. They recommend to estab- lish, with appropriate safeguards of neutrality and independence, a commission as provided for in Bill 27 to review collective bargaining structures and proce- dures in the education sector. They say to do so "with appropriate safeguards of neutrality and independ- ence." We sure aren't seeing this here in this collective bargaining process. There's no neutrality here. Other recommendations.

"Refrain in future from imposing contract settlements and respect the auton- omy of the bargaining partne rs in reaching negotiated settlements. Ensure in futu re that appropriate and meaningful consultations ar e held with unions when freedom of association and collective bargaining is af- fected. Provide the International Labour Organization with all judicial decisions related to the current core challenges involving the bills cited." That's the United Nations. That's what the United Nations is saying about this little microcosm here of British Columbia and the big global picture.

That says a lot — when the United Nation s is commenting on the procedures of this government. In closing, I'm just going to read a few of the com- ments from teachers in my community of New West- minster. Here's what some of the teachers are saying. This is a teacher with 26 to 30 years of teaching experi- ence. "I have 24 students. Over half of my class is ESL. There is no ESL support for students and very limited support for students with social and emotional prob- lems." Can you imagine that? Half the class is ESL, and no ESL support. Shame. I guess if some of these parents are concerned, they can maybe move.

That's what I've heard. Who can af- ford to move? We're trying to build our community from the inside up and onwards, not to move away to try and find better learning environments. We need to create the learning environments that are mandatory and necessary to develop our children. Another teacher with 20 years of service is saying: "We have over 40 students in some classes. However, in the lower literacy classes there are fewer, fortu- nately." I guess it's the luck of the draw. My education is now based on how lucky I am, how lucky my child is. Did she get in a small class or a large class?

Deputy Speaker: Member, noting the time…. [1540] C. Puchmayr: In closing, I just want to say that it is so important that we allow the free collective bargain- ing process to take its place. I see that there is an ability and an avenue to do so, and I ask the other side to please reconsider. Let's get back to the table, and let's get a contract so both sides can shake hands and go back and do what they need to do, and that's provide quality education for our children in this province. C. James: I rise, as well, to discuss and debate sec- ond reading on Bill 12.

I want to start off by talking a little bit about something the Minister of Labour said in opening debate on this bill. The Minister of Labour said something that, in fact, I ag ree with. He said that the bill before us represents a failure, and I would agree with that comment, Madam Speaker. However, what he didn't acknowledge is that the failure here is the government's failure of leadership. The government has a responsibility to show leader- ship — to show leadership in a labour dispute, to step up to the plate and to try and look for solutions.

At every step, instead, this government has chosen to pick a fight with teachers to the detriment of our education system. I'd like to start by taking a look at this government's record on education. What was one of the first acts of this government when it came to education shortly after the election? One of the first acts was to tear up the teachers' contract. They tore up that contract with- out discussion, without debate, without negotiations. The government had choices to make, and they made them. What was the result of these choices made by this government?

The choices were larger class sizes, fewer supports for students, libraries opening with no librarians, students with special needs left to fall through the cracks, and a severely damaged rela- tionship between teachers and the government. I'd like us to ask ourselves a question. If the gov- ernment truly wanted to demonstrate leadership, to move beyond the set of circumstances that they cre- ated, what could they do? Leadership means doing what's necessary to improve the situation. Did we see that? No. Real leadership would have meant rebuilding a scarred relationship.

It would have meant sitting down with the teachers — the teachers who were af- fected by the government's choices. This government knew that it had damaged its rela- tionship with teachers. Di d they spend the next few years trying to improve th at relationship? Did they ever once acknowledge the ro le that they played in damaging the relationship? No. Instead, this govern- ment chose to do what it always does. They chose con- frontation as their first and only option. Earlier today, in opening the discussion on the bill, we heard the Minister of Labour say that this wasn't a place that anyone wanted to go.

I heard those words from the Labour Minister. But if this government really believed those words, they had years to repair the rela- tionship that they damaged. They had the opportunity to sit down with teachers an d to talk about issues that mattered to parents, to school boards, to students and to teachers. They had a chance to show real leadership, and they failed again.

420 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2005 Sadly, this government has consistently viewed education as a political game, instead of viewing teach- ers and parents and school boards as partners in educa- tion. We even saw the Premier's election campaign focused on driving a wedge between parents and teachers. The government didn't need to take this con- frontational approach. [1545] Why is it important to have a good relationship between teachers and government? I'd like us to just take a minute to take a look at our education system, because our school system relies on a number of part- ners.

Everyone, all of our part ners, has a critical role in our school system. School trustees are locally elected members of their community who govern our school system on behalf of their community. Locally elected school boards are the key to ensuring that our school system remains the cornerstone of democracy, ensuring we have an in- formed, educated and engaged citizenry. Another player in the school system, another partner, is admin- istrators — superintendents, school principals and vice-principals, who provid e an important leadership component in our schools and in our districts.

They are continually learning from educational research and pulling together the educational team to ensure the best possible instructional environment for our stu- dents. One of the other partners in our school system is support staff, the people who provide the support ser- vices for our school grounds, maintenance, office and administration support in our schools, libraries and districts. They're also the people who provide critical supports to our students with special needs in class- rooms around our province. Parents are a key partner in our education system.

We all know that a child's first learning occurs at home, and the subsequent learning that occurs in classrooms could not happen without the support and involvement of parents. Students. I think that someti mes, in the rhetoric that we hear, students get forgotten. Students are the reason we are here talking about this issue today. Students are the reason that all the adul ts we've talked about are spending their careers in the education system. Stu- dents are the future of our communities — and yes, teachers. Teachers prepare our students, our children, for the future.

They're the educators of the next genera- tion. They're the people who spend their time, their careers and their lives with our children. They're the people who spend their summers, holidays, days off and weekends preparing lesso ns and creating an effec- tive classroom environment. Teachers are people like my mother, who spent her entire career teaching stud ents with special needs. I grew up in a house with a teacher who did spend her summer vacation fixing up classrooms, who spent her weekends marking lesson plans, making sure that things were in place for every single student in her classroom.

That's who teachers are. Yes, teachers are people who teach knowledge, but they are also people who care deeply about thei r mission and their career. They are people who are th ere day in and day out, through the tears and the laughter of the children. They're there for the children who didn't get a meal before they came to school. They're there for the kids who just need some support. I've talked a lot about the partners in our system, and it's important that all the partners in our system deserve respect. But this government has missed an important point and has left teachers out of their agenda for education.

To achieve success at the bar- gaining table requires a critical component. It requires respect for the people you're working with at the table, and I know this from personal experience. [1550] I was an elected school trustee in the Greater Vic- toria area for 11 years, and I spent time bargaining on the employer's side of the table. I know what it's like to make tough decisions, to talk about issues like abil- ity to pay, to talk about how you can provide support for students and to talk about how you can ensure that you have a fair settlement for your employees. I know that negotiations mean give-and-take.

Negotia- tions, yes, mean making tough decisions, but they also mean respecting the people on the other side of the table. We're here today, Madam Speaker, because the government has not made an effort to fix what they acknowledge is broken. I just want to share a couple of thoughts from individual teachers in my riding, people who are incredibly committed to the work that they do, who care deeply about the wo rk that they do. Just to read a quote from one of those teachers: I'm presently teaching in a grade four classroom. I have 30 students squished into a room where there's not enough space for my own desk.

I have no science text- books. I have no language arts materials. I have no teach- ing resources for social and personal planning, no com- puter program. Where's the additional support in my school? For the entire school, we have 0.6 teacher- librarian time and a part-time learning assistance teacher. What is a caring and dedicated teacher supposed to do, and how can I sleep at night?

Those are the kinds of stories that we're hearing around the province from teachers who care deeply about their work, who simply want an opportunity to sit down across from government and talk about the impact that government had on their classrooms and on the students in their classrooms, and an opportunity to talk about how to improv e those situations. Another e-mail from a teacher in my constituency says: "I felt I was forced to retire two years early. I tried moving schools to see if I could provide more support. I was given a classroom of 27 special needs students in grade nine and grade ten.

It's a room designated to hold ten students, a mini-resource room. I have children in the hallway. I love kids. I love teaching, but I was really not able to do either." Those are the stories that we're hearing over and over and over again. The fact-finder that the govern- ment brought in provided an opportunity for progress. Both sides in the dispute acknowledged that establish- ing a process to discuss learning conditions could have

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2005 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 421 led to progress on other issu es at the table without dis- rupting classrooms. I want to repeat that again — without disrupting classrooms. An opportunity, a solu- tion, was here at the table. The government deliber- ately ignored that opportunity and went straight to a forced settlement, a confrontational approach that hurts education. The government also instructed the employers as- sociation not to discuss class size and other issues at the table. I talked earlier ab out bargaining and the fact that bargaining is give-and -take.

Negotiations mean sitting down and having some things to give and some things to take, and finding a solution that works for all parties. That's very diffic ult to do for the employers association when they have nothing to bargain with at the table, when they were not allowed to talk about class size or class composition or supports for students or wages — no discussion at the table. It should be no surprise to anyone in this entire House that issues were not agreed on at that table. It's very tough to agree to issues when you have no opportunity to be able to talk about issues at the table.

W e a l s o h a v e t o r e m e m b e r w h o i t w a s t h a t r e - moved those issues from the collective agreement. In fact, it was government who removed those issues from the collective agreement. So it makes sense, cer- tainly to all of us on this side of the House, that it should be government who sits down with teachers to talk about the impact of their decision. [1555] The fact-finder made it very clear that these issues need to be discussed if progress is going to be made. At the end of the day the government had a choice. They had a choice to show leadership. They had a choice to show respect.

They had a choice to solve problems and to build bridges. But this government, sadly, is doing what it always does. This government is imposing their views without discussion with those impacted by their actions. I want to focus on this for a minute because I think it's very important to remember that showing respect to people means making sure you include them in the discussions on issues that are going to impact them directly. It's certainly a lesson that we teach to our chil- dren in classrooms. We teach our children to solve problems. We teach our children to have discussions when they face a chal- lenge.

We teach our children to try and talk through those issues. I'm sad to say, standing here today, that we don't see the government learning a very funda- mental lesson that we're working hard to encourage in our children, in our education system. I'm disap- pointed that we've reached this place. The minister talked abou t a broken bargaining sys- tem, and I would expect that all the partners in the system — and certainly the members on this side of the House — agree that we need to improve the bargaining system. That discussion could have occurred. That's what is so disappoin ting in all of this.

There was an opportunity to be able to have that discussion about the bargaining proce

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H1004pm-18
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H1004pm 18
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	cb3a14cdae1d1ceacb4da35c89dfd87ce93f5cf2

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