British Columbia Hansard — Wednesday, March 12, 2014

20140312pm-Hansard-v8n3

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session, 40th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) THE HONOURABLE LINDA REID, SPEAKER ISSN 0709- 1281 (Print) ISSN 1499-2175 (Online) Wednesday, March 12, 2014 Aft ernoon Sitting Volume 8, Number 3

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Judith Guichon, OBC Second Session, 40th Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Linda Reid EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council .............................................................................................................. Hon. Christy Clark Deputy Premier and Minister of Natural Gas Development and Minister Responsible for Housing ......................Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ......................................................................................................... Hon. John Rustad Minister of Advanced Education ............................................................................................................................................ Hon. Amrik Virk Minister of Agriculture ............................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Pat Pimm Minister of Children and Family Development ....................................................................................................... Hon. Stephanie Cadieux Minister of Community, Sport and Cultural Development ........................................................................................... Hon. Coralee Oakes Minister of Education ..................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Peter Fassbender Minister of Energy and Mines and Minister Responsible for Core Review .....................................................................Hon. Bill Bennett Minister of Environment ..........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Mary Polak Minister of Finance .................................................................................................................................................. Hon.

Michael de Jong, QC Minister of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations......................................................................................Hon. Steve Th omson Minister of Health ............................................................................................................................................................... Hon. Dr. Terry Lake Minister of International Trade and Minister Responsible for Asia Pacifi c Strategy and Multiculturalism ..................Hon.

Teresa Wat Minister of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training and Minister Responsible for Labour ...................................................Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of State for Tourism and Small Business ....................................................................................................Hon. Naomi Y amamoto Minister of Justice ...............................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Suzanne Anton Minister of Social Development and Social Innovation..................................................................................................... Hon. Don McRae Minister of Technology, Innovation and Citizens' Services ................................................................................... Hon. Andrew Wilkinson Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure ......................................................................................................................Hon.

Todd Stone LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Offi cial Opposition ......................................................................................................................................................Adrian Dix Deputy Speaker .............................................................................................................................................................................Douglas Horne Assistant Deputy Speaker ...............................................................................................................................................................

Raj Chouhan Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ....................................................................................................................................... Marc Dalton Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ................................................................................................................................................... Craig James Deputy Clerk and Clerk of Committees .................................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sessional Law Clerk ...................................................................................................................................................Roderick MacArthur, QC Sergeant-at-Arms ................................................................................................................................................................................. Gary Lenz

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Anton, Hon. Suzanne (BC Liberal) .............................. Vancouver-Fraserview Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal).....................................................................Penticton Austin, Robin (NDP) ................................................................................ Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP) ....................................................................Surrey-Newton Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ............................................... Cariboo-Chilcotin Bennett, Hon.

Bill (BC Liberal) ...................................................Kootenay East Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) ................................................... Peace River South Bing, Dr. Doug (BC Liberal) ................................ Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Bond, Hon. Shirley (BC Liberal) ........................... Prince George–Valemount Cadieux, Hon. Stephanie (BC Liberal) ................................Surrey-Cloverdale Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) .................................Vancouver–West End Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................

Burnaby-Edmonds Clark, Hon. Christy (BC Liberal) ........................................ Westside-Kelowna Coleman, Hon. Rich (BC Liberal) .......................... Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .............................................................. Kootenay West Corrigan, Kathy (NDP) ..................................................... Burnaby–Deer Lake Dalton, Marc (BC Liberal) ............................................. Maple Ridge–Mission Darcy, Judy (NDP) ..................................................................New Westminster de Jong, Hon.

Michael, QC (BC Liberal) .............................. Abbotsford West Dix, Adrian (NDP) ............................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Donaldson, Doug (NDP) ......................................................................... Stikine Eby, David (NDP) ..........................................................Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (NDP) ................................................... Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ............................................................ Port Coquitlam Fassbender, Hon.

Peter (BC Liberal) ................................... Surrey-Fleetwood Fleming, Rob (NDP) .......................................................... Victoria–Swan Lake Foster, Eric (BC Liberal) .......................................................Vernon-Monashee Fraser, Scott (NDP) ............................................................Alberni–Pacifi c Rim Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) .............................................

Abbotsford-Mission Hamilton, Scott (BC Liberal) ...........................................................Delta North Hammell, Sue (NDP) .................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Heyman, George (NDP) .................................................... Vancouver-Fairview Hogg, Gordon (BC Liberal) ............................................... Surrey–White Rock Holman, Gary (NDP) .......................................Saanich North and the Islands Horgan, John (NDP) .......................................................................

Juan de Fuca Horne, Douglas (BC Liberal) ..............................Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) ....................................................Surrey-Panorama Huntington, Vicki (Ind.) ..................................................................Delta South James, Carole (NDP) .........................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................Esquimalt–Royal Roads Krog, Leonard Eugene (NDP) .............................................................

Nanaimo Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP) ........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal) ........................................................................ Shuswap Lake, Hon. Dr.

Terry (BC Liberal) ....................Kamloops–North Th ompson Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) .........................................Boundary-Similkameen Lee, Richard T. (BC Liberal) ......................................................Burnaby North Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal) ........................................Kelowna–Lake Country Macdonald, Norm (NDP) ....................................Columbia River–Revelstoke McRae, Hon. Don (BC Liberal) ..................................................

Comox Valley Martin, John (BC Liberal) ..................................................................Chilliwack Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ..................................... Prince George–Mackenzie Mungall, Michelle (NDP) ..........................................................Nelson-Creston Oakes, Hon. Coralee (BC Liberal) .............................................Cariboo North Pimm, Hon. Pat (BC Liberal) ...............................................Peace River North Plecas, Darryl (BC Liberal) ....................................................Abbotsford South Polak, Hon.

Mary (BC Liberal) .............................................................. Langley Popham, Lana (NDP) ...................................................................Saanich South Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ................................................................ Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (BC Liberal) ..................................................Richmond East Reimer, Linda (BC Liberal) ........................................

Port Moody–Coquitlam Rice, Jennifer (NDP) ........................................................................North Coast Robinson, Selina (NDP) .............................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Routley, Bill (NDP) .................................................................. Cowichan Valley Routley, Doug (NDP) ............................................Nanaimo–North Cowichan Rustad, Hon. John (BC Liberal) ................................................

Nechako Lakes Shin, Jane Jae Kyung (NDP) ...............................................Burnaby-Lougheed Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ................................... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Shane (NDP) ..................................................... Vancouver-Hastings Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal) ........................................ Parksville-Qualicum Stilwell, Dr. Moira (BC Liberal) ........................................ Vancouver-Langara Stone, Hon. Todd (BC Liberal) .........................

Kamloops–South Th ompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal) ..................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal) ...........................................Vancouver–False Creek Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal) ..................................... West Vancouver–Capilano Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ............................................................Fraser-Nicola Th omson, Hon. Steve (BC Liberal) .......................................Kelowna-Mission Th ornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) ..........................

North Vancouver–Seymour Th roness, Laurie (BC Liberal).................................................Chilliwack-Hope Trevena, Claire (NDP) .................................................................... North Island Virk, Hon. Amrik (BC Liberal) ............................................. Surrey-Tynehead Wat, Hon. Teresa (BC Liberal) .............................................. Richmond Centre Weaver, Dr. Andrew (Ind.) .......................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Wilkinson, Hon. Andrew (BC Liberal) ........................ Vancouver-Quilchena Y amamoto, Hon.

Naomi (BC Liberal) ................ North Vancouver–Lonsdale Y ap, John (BC Liberal) ......................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission ......................................................................Simon Gibson Abbotsford South ............................................................................Darryl Plecas Abbotsford West ...................................................... Hon. Michael de Jong, QC Alberni–Pacifi c Rim ..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Boundary-Similkameen ................................................................ Linda Larson Burnaby–Deer Lake ................................................................... Kathy Corrigan Burnaby-Edmonds ......................................................................... Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed .............................................................Jane Jae Kyung Shin Burnaby North .............................................................................. Richard T.

Lee Cariboo-Chilcotin ........................................................................Donna Barnett Cariboo North .................................................................... Hon. Coralee Oakes Chilliwack ......................................................................................... John Martin Chilliwack-Hope ....................................................................... Laurie Th roness Columbia River–Revelstoke .................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley...........................................................................Hon.

Don McRae Coquitlam–Burke Mountain .....................................................Douglas Horne Coquitlam-Maillardville........................................................... Selina Robinson Cowichan Valley ................................................................................

Bill Routley Delta North ..................................................................................Scott Hamilton Delta South ...............................................................................Vicki Huntington Esquimalt–Royal Roads .....................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ...................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Fraser-Nicola....................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Juan de Fuca .....................................................................................John Horgan Kamloops–North Th ompson ............................................ Hon. Dr. Terry Lake Kamloops–South Th ompson ..................................................Hon. Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country ............................................................... Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission .............................................................. Hon. Steve Th omson Kootenay East .......................................................................... Hon.

Bill Bennett Kootenay West ............................................................................ Katrine Conroy Langley.......................................................................................Hon. Mary Polak Maple Ridge–Mission ..................................................................... Marc Dalton Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ........................................................ Dr. Doug Bing Nanaimo ........................................................................... Leonard Eugene Krog Nanaimo–North Cowichan .........................................................

Doug Routley Nechako Lakes ........................................................................ Hon. John Rustad Nelson-Creston ........................................................................Michelle Mungall New Westminster ............................................................................... Judy Darcy North Coast......................................................................................Jennifer Rice North Island .................................................................................. Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale ........................................Hon.

Naomi Y amamoto North Vancouver–Seymour ................................................. Jane Th ornthwaite Oak Bay–Gordon Head ...................................................... Dr. Andrew Weaver Parksville-Qualicum .................................................................Michelle Stilwell Peace River North ...................................................................... Hon. Pat Pimm Peace River South ............................................................................Mike Bernier Penticton............................................................................................

Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam ..........................................................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam ................................................................Linda Reimer Powell River–Sunshine Coast ................................................. Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie ............................................................. Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount ................................................... Hon. Shirley Bond Richmond Centre ......................................................................Hon.

Teresa Wat Richmond East ..........................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ..............................................................................John Y ap Saanich North and the Islands .................................................... Gary Holman Saanich South ................................................................................

Lana Popham Shuswap ................................................................................................Greg Kyllo Skeena .............................................................................................. Robin Austin Stikine ....................................................................................... Doug Donaldson Surrey-Cloverdale ....................................................... Hon. Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Fleetwood ........................................................... Hon.

Peter Fassbender Surrey–Green Timbers .................................................................. Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton ................................................................................. Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama ........................................................................... Marvin Hunt Surrey-Tynehead ......................................................................Hon. Amrik Virk Surrey-Whalley..............................................................................

Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ....................................................................... Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Fairview ..................................................................George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek ................................................................... Sam Sullivan Vancouver-Fraserview ......................................................Hon.

Suzanne Anton Vancouver-Hastings ....................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington .................................................................Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway..........................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara .................................................................Dr. Moira Stilwell Vancouver–Mount Pleasant .........................................

Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey .........................................................................David Eby Vancouver-Quilchena ................................................ Hon. Andrew Wilkinson Vancouver–West End ...............................................

Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee ...............................................................................Eric Foster Victoria–Beacon Hill .......................................................................Carole James Victoria–Swan Lake.........................................................................Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano ............................................................. Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ..........................................................Jordan Sturdy Westside-Kelowna ................................................................

Hon. Christy Clark Party Standings: BC Liberal 49; New Democratic 34; Independent 2

CONTENTS Wednesday, March 12, 2014 Aft ernoon Sitting Page Routine Business Introductions by Members ..................................................................................................................................................... 2135 Ministerial Statements ............................................................................................................................................................ 2136 20th anniversary of MLA for Abbotsford West Hon. C. Clark M. Farnworth Trade agreement with South Korea Hon. C. Clark B.

Ralston Introduction and First Reading of Bills ................................................................................................................................ 2138 Bill Pr401 — Armstrong-Spallumcheen Student Assistance Association (Corporate Restoration) Act, 2014 G. Kyllo Statements (Standing Order 25B) ......................................................................................................................................... 2139 Nutrition Month and work of dietitians J. Th ornthwaite Organizing for Change coalition for environmental protection S.

Chandra Herbert Marpole Place Neighbourhood House Moira Stilwell Restoration of Ladner United Church V . Huntington Cadets Canada program M. Dalton Constituency assistants S. Hammell Oral Questions ......................................................................................................................................................................... 2141 Appointment of John Les to earthquake preparedness process A. Dix Hon. C. Clark Government appointment of Gordon Wilson A. Dix Hon. C. Clark Appointment of Ben Stewart as Asian trade commissioner S. Simpson Hon. C.

Clark Government priorities and funding for rescue truck on Trans-Canada Highway N. Macdonald Hon. C. Clark Hon. S. Anton Government action on poverty of single-parent families M. Mungall Hon. S. Cadieux Appointment of John Les to earthquake preparedness process M. Farnworth Hon. S. Anton

Oral Questions (continued) Government contract with Maximus and privacy of health information G. Heyman Hon. T. Lake Costs for smart-metering program chief project offi cer J. Horgan Hon. B. Bennett Fees charged to abortion clinics by College of Physicians M. Karagianis Hon. T. Lake Wait times for family court orders K. Corrigan Hon. S. Anton Petitions .................................................................................................................................................................................... 2145 C.

Trevena Orders of the Day Second Reading of Bills .......................................................................................................................................................... 2146 Bill 9 — Pooled Registerd Pension Plans Act Hon. M. de Jong M. Farnworth L. Krog B. Ralston Hon. M. de Jong Bill 10 — Pension Benefi ts Standards Amendment Act, 2014 Hon. M. de Jong M. Farnworth B. Ralston Hon. M. de Jong Bill 13 — Off -Road Vehicle Act Hon. S. Th omson N. Macdonald L. Th roness B. Routley M. Morris D. Donaldson Hon. B. Bennett D. Barnett Hon. S.

Th omson Bill 7 — Laboratory Services Act Hon. T. Lake J. Darcy A. Weaver D. Donaldson Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 2179 Estimates: Ministry of Children and Family Development Hon. S. Cadieux C. James B. Routley

WEDNESDAY , MARCH 12, 2014 Th e House met at 1:34 p.m. [Madame Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Prayers. [1335] Introductions by Members Hon. T. Lake: I rise today to introduce Maureen McGrath, who's the chair of the B.C.

chapter of the Canadian Nurse Continence Advisors Association, and Adrian Wagg, president of the Canadian Continence Foundation. Will the House please make Maureen and Adrian most welcome. C. James: I have two constituents who are visiting the Legislature today. Th e fi rst is a retired teacher, Jacob Kreiser. Since the MLA fi nds out everything about every- body, I found out that Jacob actually taught with my mother in the greater Victoria school district. Welcome, Jacob. He's here with his son Vince Kreiser. Would the House please make them very welcome. Hon. S.

Bond: All of us are blessed to have fantastic staff . I'm very delighted today that in the gallery we have my administrative coordinator, Kim, and her husband, Chris Haslett. Kim is a very important part of the team in our offi ce, and although she is fantastic, she's soon go- ing to be taking leave for a very good reason. We were very excited when Kim told us that she was expecting a baby, and you can imagine double our pleas- ure when she found out that she and Chris are expecting twins.

We want to congratulate them, wish her very well and thank her for the excellent service that she provides in our offi ce every single day. M. Karagianis: I have two introductions to make to- day, if you'll bear with me. Th e fi rst is a young woman from my constituency. She lives in the far regions out near Royal Roads University. Her name is Cindy Y ee. I understand that Cindy has become more interested in politics aft er listening to me speak on a radio program. I'm very happy that I have inspired someone to pay more attention to what we do in this House. Please make Cindy very, very welcome.

Th e second introduction I'd like to make…. If you look around, the gallery is full of a group of very amazing in- dividuals. Every one of them is hard-working. Th ey do an extraordinary job every single day on behalf of the mem- bers here in the opposition seats. Th ey help us look good, do our job better and, in fact, are the ones who lift most of the weight in our constituencies. Th ey are the constitu- ency assistants for the opposition members. We'd like to welcome them all and say thank you very much for the hard work you do. Hon. S.

Cadieux: I have the pleasure today to intro- duce a couple of constituents from the constituency of Chilliwack-Hope. Th ey are, in fact, my mother and fath- er and my nephew. Patricia and Grant Homewood and Caleb Kehler have joined me today to have a tour of the Legislature and see us in action. Caleb is in grade 5 this year and studying government in school. K. Corrigan: At Christmastime this year we did the big family vacation to Mexico and took all four of our kids and their partners.

My son Patrick and his fi ancée, Kaleigh, took the opportunity to get married at a surprise wedding, which was also attended by Kaleigh's parents. I was mentioning it today and wanted to announce it because this weekend we are actually going to have the big reception. I'm so proud to welcome Kaleigh into the family — she's been there for a long time, but it's offi - cial now — and also to welcome Tom and Joanne, her parents, into the family. Congratulations to Kaleigh and Patrick Corrigan. Hon. P .

Fassbender: We're going to be joined in a few minutes by 60 grade 5 students and parents from Surrey Christian School in my riding. I would ask all the mem- bers to make them welcome. M. Elmore: I'm very pleased to welcome today to the Legislature my beautiful partner, Angelina Cantada. [1340] She's here for the day and accompanied by her good friend from San Francisco, Carol Gancia. It's her fi rst visit here to the Legislature, fi rst time to Victoria. She enjoyed the ferry ride over on our marine coastal highway. I ask everybody to please give them a warm welcome. J. Th ornthwaite: Today is Dietitians Day.

Dietitians of Canada is a national professional association of 6,000 registered dietitians, and I have 19 of them in the gal- lery today. I wish that the House would welcome Sonya Kupka, who's the regional executive director; Gerry Kasten, a fellow of the Dietitians of Canada; Monika Liefh ebber; Vesanto Melina; Lisa Forster-Coull; Janice Macdonald; Lynda Corby; Darlene Ravensdale; Margaret Woodlock; Sophia Baker-French; Anne Simmons; Jodi Holland; Annika Treff ner; Christine Th ompson; Kathie Ruggieri; Nicole Fetterly; Esther Stevens; Kelby Shelrud; and Sara Rodrigues.

Could the House please welcome these valuable health care professionals to Victoria. 2135

British Columbia Debates2136 Wednesday, March 12, 2014 K. Conroy: I'd like to introduce Wanda Morris, who is here today. She's the executive director of Dying With Dignity Canada. Wanda is here to meet with the op- position caucus to discuss the issues of dying with dig- nity. It's actually something that 80 percent of British Columbians agree with, but not all of us agree on what that actually means, so we are really looking forward to our discussion with Wanda. Would the House please join me in making her welcome. D. Routley: Can the House help me welcome an old friend of mine, Lisa Winfrey Read.

Lisa is a teacher from Duncan. I've known her since I was a small boy. Her brother Jesse Winfrey is an ex–Duncan city coun- cillor. He's a chef with the Vancouver Island Health Authority, and we have been friends since kindergarten. We had the distinction, as wolf pack members in Cub Scouts, to be the only Cub Scout group evicted from one of the churches in Duncan and put to the very back of the line when there was a royal visit to Duncan. I'm not sure that's something Jesse would want to celebrate with me. I'm sure he would appreciate that, though. He's got a great sense of humour.

Jesse and his sister Lisa, who joins us here, have been great friends. Lisa is one of those teachers who has af- fected the lives of so many wee ones, and the commun- ity is so much the better for her service. Please help me make her welcome. A. Weaver: I have a number of introductions. First, I'd like to introduce four amazingly talented students from Pearson College, which is located in the riding of the member for Juan de Fuca. Erica Cooper is from the rid- ing of the Minister of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training, the member for Prince George–Valemount.

Second is Linda Warden, from the member for Penticton's riding. Jessica Collins is from Westminster, in the U.K, where of course the British House of Parliament is located. Charles Kofi Fosu is from Ghana. Th ese four students are visit- ing the Legislature as part of their project week with the United World College, Pearson College. Th e second person I'd like to introduce is an incred- ibly talented Canadian, an artist, an activist and a writer. Her name is Franke James.

Anybody who has been fol- lowing climate communication in any aspect of this area across Canada or, frankly, in the U.S. will recognize the profound impact Franke James has had on the communi- cation of the importance of taking climate into account in policy decisions. Again, I'd like the House to please welcome both the Pearson College students and Franke James, who it's a great pleasure to be able to host here in the Legislature. M. Bernier: One thing I enjoy about sitting at this end is that we usually get to save the best for last, so I'm really excited to stand today.

Th e district of Tumbler Ridge in my riding is known for being one of the best coal-mining communities in this great province. But as we found out today, it is also known for some of the best dinosaur fossil fi nds in the entire world. It was a great time we had this morning to hear about this. With that, I'd like to introduce two members who came down all the way from the district of Tumbler Ridge, in my riding, to Victoria to explain this to us today. We have with us the mayor, Mayor Darwin Wren, and Councillor Rob Mackay, who came down from Tumbler Ridge.

I'm hoping that the gallery will please make them welcome. [1345] J. Kwan: I look up in the galleries and, of course, I see the wonderful face of my constituency assistant's partner, Trevor, who is here visiting us today. I'm just delighted to see him here enjoying the sights but really coming in to watch question period to see how this place ought not to function. More importantly, I simply just want to say an early congratulations to Trevor and Jason for their wedding that's coming up this summer. Welcome, Trevor and Jason and everyone else. J.

Darcy: It's my great pleasure to welcome someone to the House who is oft en here in the galleries, I think, al- most every day. But I think he deserves a special recogni- tion. Mr. Lynn Klein is an ambulance paramedic by trade, historically, who is a great historian in his own right of the B.C. Ambulance Service — and also of many other great developments in this province — and the brother of the former Premier of Alberta — although, as Lynn and I have discussed, we won't necessarily share a com- mon perspective on that.

We certainly do honour his contribution to the Ambulance Service, his contribution to documenting the history of this province and his avid attention to the goings-on in the Legislature almost every single day. J. Horgan: I know it's a tradition, when grandchildren are born, to stand in this place. Before my two sons start panicking and looking at each other, instead, I'd like to introduce my grand-goddaughter born to my goddaugh- ter Cara Walsh and her husband, Sean Walsh. Last week Ivy May Walsh came into the world, and she's awesome. Would the House please make her very, very welcome.

Ministerial Statements 20th ANNIVERSARY OF MLA FOR ABBOTSFORD WEST Hon. C. Clark: Madame Speaker , I rise to make a statement today. As everyone knows, you are the longest- serving member of this Legislature, and we congratulate you for that and thank you for your long years of service.

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, March 12, 2014 2137 But today I rise to pay tribute to the second-longest- serving member of this Legislature. And I rise today be- cause it was 20 years ago this week that the member for Abbotsford West was fi rst sworn in as a member for the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia. I want you to think back to about 20 years ago. Forrest Gump was the number one movie at the box offi ce. Tiger Woods won the U.S. Amateur. If you look at photos from back then, you'll certainly see that the fashion was appar- ently big glasses, silkscreen ties — and hair.

Th at fi rst election in which he was elected was a by- election, and it wasn't exactly a landslide. He was elected the fi rst time by 42 votes. Since then, the support of his constituents has increased enormously because he has proven himself to be the defi nition of what it is to be a great constituency MLA. He has delivered major projects, including a new hos- pital, a new cancer clinic, an airport expansion.

He has also done all of the quiet work that it takes to be a great representative — all that casework that nobody hears about, except for the grateful constituent, who will al- ways remember the hard work of their MLA. With this MLA, the member for Abbotsford West, on the job, they always got the job done.

As an opposition member, when I fi rst met the mem- ber, I oft en sat with great delight, watching the chagrin on the faces of the members opposite when he proved to be such a highly eff ective and entertaining critic of the then government, delivering what were devastating cri- tiques with that sly smile we have all come to know and love so much. Well, maybe not everybody. From his fi rst cabinet appointment to today, he has left an outstanding legacy. He began the process to open up new markets for our forest sector in Asia.

He intro- duced the tough new drunk-driving laws that are saving lives every week and every month in this province. He got health care spending under control. And he has de- livered two consecutive balanced budgets. [1350] In other words, he has shown what it is to be an ef- fective MLA, how to be a great minister of the Crown and how to make the province better. If that was all, that would be enough legacy for most of us, but there is more. Occasionally a member in this House shows them- selves to be a real student of Parliament. Th ey come to embody the traditions on which our system is founded.

It's not about being a tactician; it's about respect for the Westminster style of government and all of the history that that entails. Th at is what marks some in this cham- ber as true parliamentarians. Th e member celebrating 20 years today has led by example in that realm as well. A great parliamentarian, a great MLA, an outstand- ing cabinet minister.

Will the House please join me in congratulating the man with the wry smile and so much less hair, the member for Abbotsford West, for 20 years of long service to our province and hoping he serves the people of British Columbia for many, many more years to come. [Applause.] M.

Farnworth: It's my pleasure to rise and respond to the ministerial statement from the Premier, though aft er hearing what she had to say about my colleague's accom- plishments over the last 20 years, it really looks like he should be Premier. [Laughter.] Th ose of you on that side of the House need to think back, as the Premier said, to those 20 years ago, because I don't know how many realize just what a momentous evening it was, that by-election back in 1994.

Th e Premier listed Forrest Gump, for example, and a number of other things about the '90s, but what I remember at that time in 1994 was that we were government and we still had seven more years to go. What was truly remarkable about that evening — and I think what does the member credit and speaks a lot to his staying power over the last 20 years — was that that was a pivotal by-election in the political history of British Columbia with Social Credit and the return of Social Credit to the political scene aft er the devastating loss in 1991. Would the B.C.

Liberal Party cement its role as the party that would occupy the space that Social Credit had done? Th e Liberals had a young, bespectacled candidate who had a carefree hair style back then, and he won by 42 votes. Th ink about that — 42 votes. Who says your vote doesn't count? It does. Anyway, he made his way into this chamber, and 20 years later he still has the carefree hair style. I can say that over those 20 years I have got to know him in capacities as a colleague, working with him as House Leader, as a minister on that side and as an oppos- ition critic on this side.

We have jousted on many issues over those years. One that I think does come to mind that is clearly in the "you could get away with this but not now" was the day that he presented what he thought was a bomb of a question — literally a ticking package — in this cham- ber. Th at was very much his style at that time. Over those years we have seen him mature — both physically but also politically. I think the Premier is right.

It really is remarkable when you are able to represent a constituency for 20 years, because the average tenure is about seven years in British Columbia history, and 20 years is a remarkable achieve- ment. Clearly, he has earned the trust and the confi dence of the voters of, initially, Matsqui, and Abbotsford West. All of us on this side would like to join with the Premier and his colleagues and congratulate him on 20 years of service to the province. [Applause.] [1355]

British Columbia Debates2138 Wednesday, March 12, 2014 TRADE AGREEMENT WITH SOUTH KOREA Hon. C. Clark: I have another ministerial statement. I know that the members opposite have been notifi ed. British Columbians have asked members of this House to set aside our diff erences, to work together so that we can grow the economy for everyone. Th ey know that the only way to pay for the services that British Columbians depend on is to build a healthy and growing economy. A major part of our plan to get there is to increase trade with the emerging economies of Asia.

Because of our proximity, because of our natural advantages, we've had tremendous success, partly due to the work that was begun by the Member for Abbotsford South that we have spoken about today, in expanding our trade rela- tionships there. In South Korea, we have not been on a level playing fi eld. Our competitors in the U.S., Australia and the EU have had free trade agreements, and they have prospered because of those agreements. I'll give one example of the diff erence.

Our lumber exports to South Korea have actually declined over the past three years, while our exports to China and Japan have been setting historic records. We needed a level playing fi eld, and we've had some very good news on that front. Today the Prime Minister is in Vancouver. Th e fed- eral government has announced they have reached a free trade agreement with South Korea. South Korea is Canada's seventh-largest trading partner, but trade with Korea is more important to British Columbia than any other province in Canada. Over half of all Canadian exports to South Korea originate in British Columbia.

Th ey're actually our fourth-largest trading partner. We've had tremendous success in brokering trade deals and agreements with Korean companies like Samsung, KOGAS, Korea Institute for Science and Technology. Now, with these barriers removed, we can go even fur- ther. We can create more opportunity. We can create more jobs. Th e news today from the Prime Minister and the federal government on the Korea-Canada trade deal is great news for all British Columbians. B. Ralston: I'd like to thank the Premier for her state- ment.

In my visit to Korea last fall I was impressed with the dynamism and vibrancy of the society and economy of Korea, particularly the capacity of its citizens for hard work. British Columbia, of course, has strong ties to South Korea. Canadians of Korean origin are an important and growing community here in British Columbia. Th e growing infl uence of that community is refl ected here in this Legislature. A member of the offi cial opposition, the member for Burnaby-Lougheed, elected in 2013, is the fi rst Canadian of Korean origin to ever be elected to this Legislature.

Growing trade with the Asia-Pacifi c and, in this case, South Korea is an important part of our economic future here in British Columbia. Overall, as the Premier has noted, South Korea is British Columbia's fourth-largest trading partner. South Korea is an important market for B.C. re- sources, and there are other opportunities for growth as well — to attract more international students here from South Korea and also to attract more tourists here from Korea to grow our tourism industry.

We look forward to the expansion of trade with South Korea and the future of shared economic prosperity it will bring us here in British Columbia. Introduction and First Reading of Bills BILL Pr401 — ARMSTRONG-SPALLUMCHEEN STUDENT ASSISTANCE ASSOCIATION (CORPORATE RESTORATION) ACT, 2014 G. Kyllo presented a bill intituled Armstrong- Spallumcheen Student Assistance Association (Corporate Restoration) Act, 2014. G.

Kyllo: I move that a bill intituled Armstrong- Spallumcheen Student Assistance Association (Corporate Restoration) Act, 2014, of which notice has been given on the order paper, be introduced and now read a fi rst time. Motion approved. G. Kyllo: The Armstrong-Spallumcheen Student Assistance Society was dissolved by the registrar of com- panies for failure to fi le annual reports for ten years. Th e society was unaware that it had been struck and con- tinued to operate. Th e Armstrong-Spallumcheen Student Assistance Association was incorporated in British Columbia on June 29, 1965, under the Society Act.

Th e purpose of the society is to provide non-interest- bearing loans to qualifying graduating high school stu- dents from both the city of Armstrong and the township of Spallumcheen who are registered to take post-secondary education. [1400] Th e society wishes to transfer its current assets of ap- proximately $65,000 to Pleasant Valley Secondary School in Armstrong, which will continue to manage and dis- burse those funds for the same purposes. Th e society can- not transfer its assets unless it is restored.

It wishes to be restored for a period of one year so that it can eff ect the transfer of its current assets. Madame Speaker, I move that the bill be referred to the Select Standing Committee on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Standing Orders and Private Bills. Bill Pr401, Armstrong-Spallumcheen Student Assistance Association (Corporate Restoration) Act,

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, March 12, 2014 2139 2014, introduced, read a fi rst time and and referred to the Select Standing Committee on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Standing Orders and Private Bills. Statements (Standing Order 25B) NUTRITION MONTH AND WORK OF DIETITIANS J. Th ornthwaite: March is Nutrition Month. Today is Dietitians Day, a day in which we recognize the exper- tise of B.C.'s registered dietitians and the critical role they play in the health of our province.

As a former RD with 22 years' experience working in hospitals, industry, edu- cation, private practice and community health, it gives me great pleasure to talk about the important work diet- itians do and how they are acting in concert with govern- ment to improve health outcomes and the quality of life for British Columbians. By the way, dietitians have at least one university de- gree, and the title "dietitian" is protected by law, just like for doctors, nurses and pharmacists. Dietitians al- ter people's relationship with food.

Th ey translate nutri- tion information into practical advice, allowing clients to take control of their health, make daily healthy food choices and recover or prevent chronic illness. RDs sup- port the assessment of patients upon admission to hospi- tals or care facilities. Th ey determine if patients have any health risks and draft appropriate nutrition care plans to support them. By relying on their leadership in this area, we can sig- nifi cantly reduce the amount of time patients require care and minimize the chances of recurring illness, sav- ing valuable health dollars.

Dietitians work in many diff erent fi elds. Th eir career opportunities are endless. Government and dietitians are committed to working together on initiatives like dialing 811, HealthLink B.C., in order to speak with an RD for free. Y esterday I attended the Informed Dining launch at UVic with the Minister of Health and fellow dietitians. Th is program helps consumers make healthy choices while dining out. Restaurants participating in the pro- gram provide nutrition information for their entire menu, making a healthy choice the easy choice.

We are more equipped than ever to provide the best nutrition information to the public and to fi ght malnutri- tion and chronic illness with education and preventative care. Registered dietitians are at the forefront of nutrition education. I ask the House to join me in thanking them for making B.C. a healthier place. ORGANIZING FOR CHANGE COALITION FOR ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION S. Chandra Herbert: Th e majesty of the Flathead, the wonder of the Great Bear rainforest, the richness of the Sacred Headwaters — places of such spiritual, social, eco- logical and economic wealth.

Can you imagine what B.C. would be without places like these? I can't, and neither can Organizing for Change. Organizing for Change is a project made up of some of B.C.'s leading environment- al organizations, dedicated to conserving and preserving our air, water, land and all that relies on them.

Made up of the Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society, Conservation Northwest, the Dogwood Initiative, Ecojustice, ForestEthics, the Georgia Strait Alliance, Greenpeace, the Pembina Institute, Sierra Club B.C., West Coast Environmental Law and Wildsight, Organizing for Change brings together many of B.C.'s well-known environmental advocates to form a collective voice and bring collective action to better our province. Ably supported by Lisa Matthaus, they involve hun- dreds of thousands of British Columbians in campaigns to put our ecological wealth and well-being at the fore- front of public policy in this place.

Every year they meet with MLAs to bring forward practical, pragmatic and vi- sionary lists of achievable, high-impact policy priorities for us all to get behind. Th ey've had some real successes, but there is so much more to be done. If we want to be able to look our chil- dren and grandchildren in the eye and be able to say we've all done what we can to leave the world a better place for them, we would do well to heed Organizing for Change's advice.

We could fi nalize the Great Bear rain- forest agreement, fi nally open a new national marine park in the southern strait of Georgia Strait, ban cosmetic pesticides, enact endangered species legislation, restart our fi ght against climate change — to name but a few of their priorities that they've brought us over the years. On behalf of this side of the House and, I'm sure, on that side of the House as well, I'd like to thank Organizing for Change for their leadership.

It's a pleasure to work for them, and I wish them all the best. [1405] MARPOLE PLACE NEIGHBOURHOOD HOUSE Moira Stilwell: It is with great pleasure that I rise to- day to speak about a wonderful community institution that is changing people's lives and turning strangers into friends. Th e Marpole Place Neighbourhood House is a vibrant community hub that strives to respond to the needs of our community and bring about positive social change. Its goal is to be a low-barrier and inclusive or- ganization that provides support, activities, resources and opportunities to everyone in the community.

Th rough the help of countless volunteers, Marpole Place has become integral in creating community con- nections and addressing and reducing the eff ects of iso- lation, discrimination and poverty. Marpole Place has strong community partnerships with community mem-

British Columbia Debates2140 Wednesday, March 12, 2014 bers, local businesses, health and service agencies and social advocacy groups. Last December Marpole Place Neighbourhood House suff ered a major fl ood that pushed them out of their home. They are now working out of St. Augustine's Church and other places in the community.

Despite that, over the past year Marpole Place Neighbourhood House has worked to increase its part- nerships in the community, including these examples: working with Village Vancouver to establish Marpole Neighbourhood Food Network, collaborating with Jewish Family Service Agency to make the Better at Home program more accessible, working with Westside Mobile Food Market to provide fresh, local and low-cost produce to seniors, and so on.

Will the House please join me in recognizing the Marpole Place Neighbourhood House and its mission to provide sustainable and aff ordable ways for our neigh- bours to stay healthy and connected to their community. RESTORATION OF LADNER UNITED CHURCH V . Huntington: Speaking of healthy and connected, I'm pleased to rise today to speak about the restoration and renovation of the historic Ladner United Church. Th e Ladner United Church has been at the heart of our community since it opened in 1893. In the generations that followed, our community grew.

And the church, undergoing several major renovations, grew alongside it, continuing its long service to the people of Ladner. Unfortunately, the original building — through long use, normal wear and tear and sundry renovations — was becoming non-functional and was looking old and sad. Th e most economical option would have been to tear the church down and build something modern. But de- spite its condition, this old church is loved not only by its members but by the community at large.

It is an import- ant, symbolic presence in the historic village of Ladner — providing, among many other services, Delta's only extreme weather shelter. Wanting both to honour heritage and to continue serv- ing the people of Ladner, the congregation of Ladner United Church and their friends in the wider commun- ity worked hard to raise the necessary funds. Late last year they were able to launch an extensive renovation — a renovation that is not only bringing the Ladner United Church into the 21st century but is also restoring the original neo-Gothic sanctuary and the building's historic exterior.

Th e quality and innovation of this renovation is thanks to the dedication of builder Steve Knoblauch of RAM Construction. Quite obvious- ly, he puts his whole heart into this amazing restora- tion. Finally, it cannot go without saying that the Ladner church is almost debt-free, the congregation having al- ready raised 95 percent of the renovation costs. I'm pleased to announce that the restored Ladner United Church will reopen and be dedicated in April of this year.

I can attest that it is a beautiful landmark with its original historic detailing and a multifunctional space designed to serve everyone in the community. Would the House please join me in congratulating the Rev. Jim Short and his congregation on their wonderful new place of not only worship but of service to the com- munity of Ladner. CADETS CANADA PROGRAM M. Dalton: Since the late 1800s, in towns and cities across the country, the Canadian cadet program has off ered training to young people free of charge. Army Cadets began with a mandate of training boys over the age of 12 in military skills and drills.

During the First and Second World Wars thousands volunteered to serve Canada overseas. Th e cadet program is one of Canada's longest-running youth programs and is for both males and females. Cadets can choose to join Sea, Army or Air Cadets in corps and squadrons within their local community. Sea Cadet activities include sailing and safe boating, range safety, drill, music and ship tours. As well, Sea Cadets learn naval history and knowledge, leadership and instructional techniques. Army Cadets learn ori- enteering, GPS technology, fi rst aid, camping, canoeing, survival skills and rifl ery.

Air Cadets develop skills in aviation, both power fl ying and gliding, aerospace and aircraft maintenance, navigation and outdoor survival. [1410] Regardless of what branch cadets choose to learn, there's a focus on leadership, physical fi tness and cit- izenship. There are more than 6,700 cadets in B.C. today. Cadet branches in my riding include the 521 Aurora Squadron in Mission, with the Royal Canadian Air Cadets.

In Maple Ridge we have the 583 Legion Coronation Squadron, also with the Royal Canadian Air Cadets; the 354 Invincible Royal Canadian Sea Cadet Corps; and the 1838 Maple Ridge Legion Army Cadet Corps. Th ank you to the commanding offi cers, training of- fi cers and instructors who work and volunteer to assist our local cadets. Th e sea, army and air cadets all make a positive impact on the communities of Maple Ridge, Mission and across British Columbia. Y oung people learn self-discipline, gain self-confi dence, make lifelong friendships and learn skills that they can take with them for the rest of their lives.

CONSTITUENCY ASSISTANTS S. Hammell: One of the things all of us here can agree on is that we have talented, dedicated and hard-working constituency assistants. As you know, in the gallery a

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, March 12, 2014 2141 number of CAs are here from our side. Being away from our constituencies is oft en diffi cult, but comfort comes knowing that your CAs are dealing eff ectively with the numerous e-mails, faxes, phone calls and visits they re- ceive daily. But hon. Speaker, while doing this work they do re- ceive some very interesting demands. Th rough you to the people of British Columbia, as amazing as our con- stituency assistants are, all of your wishes cannot be granted.

Regardless of how they are asked, nicely or not, our CAs cannot or will not stop your neighbour's dog from barking or pick up an animal carcass from your driveway. Th ey cannot remove old furniture from your house, clean out your septic tank, cut down trees to bet- ter your view or cancel Halloween because you don't like noisy children. Th ey cannot directly administer the H1N1 vaccine, and they defi nitely cannot ensure that the Vancouver Canucks win the Stanley Cup — not even get to the playoff s. Our CAs will not call up your wife and insist she love you more.

Th ey will not perform prostate exams when MSP won't cover it. Th ey cannot personally come to your home to remove your smart meter or ask the person hid- ing in the bushes to leave. Last, but not the end of this list, our CAs defi nitely cannot get you unblocked from the Premier's Facebook. Clearly, we owe a lot of gratitude to our incredible CAs for the work they do. So from all of us to all of you, thank you. Oral Questions APPOINTMENT OF JOHN LES TO EARTHQUAKE PREPAREDNESS PROCESS A.

Dix: Can the Premier explain why she's spending $140,000 on a wasteful, extra, superfl uous, porkbarrel- ling, double-dipping patronage appointment for John Les? Hon. C. Clark: I became aware of the details of the contract yesterday aft ernoon. Very clearly, they are not consistent with our commitment as a government to con- trol government spending, to keep government small. So I have agreed with the Attorney General that the off er will be withdrawn — has been withdrawn. A.

Dix: I am delighted and now very optimistic about my second question, because Gordon Wilson knows about as much about LNG as John Les does about emer- gency preparedness. [1415] To the Premier: can the Premier explain how and why this happened? Who approved the appointment? Presumably, this appointment comes through her offi ce. Who approved the appointment, and how and why did it happen? Hon. C. Clark: It is funny how when the member op- posite says he's delighted, he still never looks happy. As I said, I became aware of the details of the contract yesterday aft ernoon.

It was not consistent with our com- mitment as a government to control government spend- ing, and so this morning Mr. Les was informed that we were withdrawing that off er. Madame Speaker: Th e Leader of the Opposition on a supplemental. GOVERNMENT APPOINTMENT OF GORDON WILSON A. Dix: Well, if the Premier is interested in my happi- ness, there's a long list: 20 failed Liberal candidates, four former MLAs on that list. We could have a real party in here today. Th e same argument applies, surely, to Gordon Wilson, so I'll ask the Premier if she'll withdraw and cut that ap- pointment. Hon. C. Clark: Mr.

Wilson, in his appointment, I can say — in the last several months, the few months that he's been working on the LNG Buy B.C. program — has made a real diff erence. He's been travelling to communities all across the province, connecting British Columbia's small- and medium-sized business with the LNG opportunity.

Our commitment as a government is to ensure that fi rst of all, the LNG opportunity comes to British Columbia — something that certainly we diff er, I know, with the opposition — but also to make sure that we are connecting British Columbia businesses so that they can create jobs in their local communities. Th at's an essential part of making this happen. Y ou know, if the member in favour of LNG was to stand up and speak about it, it would be one thing. Th e member who's not in favour of LNG — it might be an- other. Th e member who is sometimes in favour of LNG — it might be another. But I guarantee you this.

Th ere would be no Buy B.C. LNG program; there would be no LNG coming to British Columbia; and this economy would not be growing. We on this side of the House take a very diff erent view of that. We believe in economic growth. We believe in liquefi ed natural gas. And we believe in saying yes to re- source development. APPOINTMENT OF BEN STEW ART AS ASIAN TRADE COMMISSIONER S. Simpson: We're all pleased that the government has back-pedalled out of the John Les debacle now, but we all know that Mr. Les was hardly alone when it came to

British Columbia Debates2142 Wednesday, March 12, 2014 the litany of patronage and pork-barrel appointments. Aft er the last election, we all know that Ben Stewart stepped down his seat to allow the Premier to get into the Legislature. Mr. Stewart then received a $150,000-a-year appointment as an agent trade commissioner to which we still have no evidence what his qualifi cations are. Will the Premier take the same position with Mr. Stewart as she's taking with Mr. Les: rescind that and put somebody in there who's qualifi ed? Hon. C.

Clark: It's certainly taken the opposition a little while to get around to asking this question, I have to say. I'm happy to answer it because Ben Stewart is eminently qualifi ed for this position. His experience in participating in trade missions as a leading member of British Columbia's business community, as someone who has built a small business into a thriving concern that has helped establish the Okanagan, in the world's eyes, as a centre for wine and for agritourism….

He also brings with him the weight and the heft of a former cabinet minister, which obviously plays a big role, we all know, in forming relationships in Asia. [1420] We are absolutely intent on growing our trade relation- ships with Asia.

In order to do that, we've doubled the number of staff that we have in the offi ces on the ground there, and we've also raised profi le of those offi ces there by ensuring that there is someone heading up our oper- ations in Asia who has a direct line to government, can solve problems immediately and can make sure that people in Asia know that we value this relationship that we have with them extremely highly. Madame Speaker: Recognizing Vancouver-Hastings on a supplemental. S. Simpson: I have no doubt in my mind that there are many people in the Premier's offi ce who are very grateful to Mr.

Stewart for stepping aside so that she could have a place to land with a seat. Mr. Stewart might be a very good vintner and know about wine, but where is the evidence that he under- stands Asia and that he understands that fi le? Th ere is no evidence of that, as there is no evidence that Mr. Les had a clue about emergency preparedness. Will the Premier do the right thing and show some merit — at least identify where the merit is — for Mr. Stewart and the litany of other failed Liberals who have got jobs from her? Hon. C.

Clark: Th e member opposite is rarely inclined to take my word for anything, so let me off er the word of a few other people. Greg D'Avignon, who's the president and CEO of the B.C. Business Council, said: "Ben Stewart brings a strong record and valuable experience to his role." Th e mayor of Vancouver, the former NDP mem- ber for Vancouver-Fairview, says: "Ben Stewart will re- inforce our eff orts to support Vancouver companies in expanding into Chinese markets." I know that Mr. Stewart will accomplish a lot on be- half of British Columbians.

He knows what it takes to build a successful business, he knows what it takes to build a successful relationship, and he knows what it takes and how important it is to cement the ties between British Columbia and Asia so that we can deliver on our plan to create jobs here at home for the people of British Columbia. GOVERNMENT PRIORITIES AND FUNDING FOR RESCUE TRUCK ON TRANS-CANADA HIGHW AY N. Macdonald: To the Premier. Th e Revelstoke road rescue truck was hit and written off during a rescue on the Trans-Canada Highway.

Th e minister refused to fund the purchase of a new rescue truck, because she has to make what she calls tough decisions, right? Th e Premier was willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for John Les to do nothing useful. She's agreed with that assessment: nothing useful for the money. The same amount would get a rescue truck that actually saves lives. Th e question for the Premier. Y ou had the money yes- terday to waste on John Les. Will you apply it to rescuing people on the Trans-Canada Highway today? Hon. C.

Clark: I don't know what part of "the off er has been withdrawn" the member fails to understand. Madame Speaker: Columbia River–Revelstokeon a supplemental. N. Macdonald: Well, let's turn to the Attorney General. She, surprisingly, might have an answer on something today. Y esterday you had money to waste on John Les. Th at money has been withdrawn. Th e minister has an obligation to make sure that people travelling on the Trans-Canada are safe. Remember that this vehicle is something that applies to over 80 to 100 rescues in the course of a year, and 90 percent of those are people outside of Revelstoke.

The minister said no yesterday, said there was no money. Clearly, there's money. Will she apply the money that should have gone to Revelstoke rescue — but went to John Les — to a proper cause related to public safety, and do it today? [1425] Hon. S. Anton: Y esterday we launched a consulta- tion on public safety earthquake preparedness in British Columbia. Th is is an important consultation, and for that we appointed two co-chairs — both experienced, skilled,

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, March 12, 2014 2143 qualifi ed co-chairs. However, the number on one of the contracts was too high. For that reason, the Premier and I have consulted, and we have withdrawn that contract. We are proceed- ing with the one chair only, recognizing the importance of continuing this important consultation in British Columbia. Just to emphasize, this is a Ministry of Justice program. Th e program is my responsibility. Th e appointment was my responsibility, and we have withdrawn one of those appointments. GOVERNMENT ACTION ON POVERTY OF SINGLE-PARENT FAMILIES M.

Mungall: John Les may have been shown the door earlier today, but there are, as we know, other former Liberal MLAs and failed Liberal candidates collecting high wages annually from their patronage appointments. Single moms in B.C., Premier, on the other hand, have lost income under the Liberals' watch. In just one year their median income dropped by 30 percent, from a meagre $32,000 per year to a paltry $21,500 per year. Th e result? Half of B.C.'s single moms and their children are living in poverty while former Liberal MLAs live it up.

When is the Premier going to put money into reducing child poverty instead of the pockets of her friends? Hon. S. Cadieux: No one in this House and no one in government wants to see anyone living in poverty. Th is government has overseen the largest reduction in child poverty in the last 25 years. We have reduced the rate of child poverty by 41 percent since 2003. Th at is 69,000 children that have been lift ed out of poverty under this government's watch. Th e child poverty rate does remain, at one of its lowest rates in more than three decades. Th ere are only two ways to address the issue of poverty.

One is to grow the economy and create jobs. Th e other is targeted supports. Th is government is committed to both, and we will do both. APPOINTMENT OF JOHN LES TO EARTHQUAKE PREPAREDNESS PROCESS M. Farnworth: Th e Premier just informed this House that she reviewed the contract today, and she said she found it lacking. But yesterday the Attorney General thought it was just fi ne. My question to the Attorney General is this. Why did she think it was fi ne yesterday, and what happened to change her mind? Hon. S.

Anton: As I mentioned, this is an important consultation in British Columbia, and we did appoint two outstanding co-chairs. However, the number on one of those contracts was too high, so we will proceed on the consultation with the one contractor alone and proceed with this important consultation in British Columbia. Madame Speaker: Th e member for Port Coquitlam on a supplemental. M. Farnworth: Well, Attorney General, you said to- day it's too high…. Madame Speaker: Member, through the Chair. M. Farnworth: Y es, hon. Speaker, through the Chair.

The Attorney General has yet to be able to answer a question in this House when it comes to this issue. Today she's saying the number was too high. When she saw the contract yesterday, she thought it was just fi ne. What changed? [1430] Hon. S. Anton: As the House will know, we have the goal of not growing government unnecessarily, on this side of the House. We have the goal of balancing the budget and growing the economy. Th e number attached to this contract was too high. It was a mistake.

Th at's why we have withdrawn that particular contract and will be proceeding with the one chair alone, because this is an extremely important consultation for British Columbia. GOVERNMENT CONTRACT WITH MAXIMUS AND PRIV ACY OF HEALTH INFORMATION G. Heyman: In 2004 the B.C. Liberals signed a ten- year agreement that contracted out the handling of our personal and sensitive private medical information to Maximus B.C., a subsidiary of a U.S.-based corpora- tion. In March of last year they extended this agreement for another fi ve years — signifi cantly higher, 40 percent higher, than the original terms.

At the time the government assured British Columbians that the contract specifi ed that data storage and access would not occur outside of Canada, to mitigate the risk of disclosure under the U.S.A. Patriot Act. Th at act allows the FBI to secretly demand and obtain personal informa- tion on anyone from U.S.-owned companies. Last year the Auditor General reported that monitor- ing tools meant to identify privacy breaches were not implemented and the Health Ministry had not ensured that Maximus was complying with two key privacy con- tract terms.

Th e report states: "We noted that two mon- itoring tools intended to identify privacy breaches were not implemented as expected and that the ministry has not verifi ed that the service provider is complying with two key privacy contract terms." In other words, the Auditor General said that the min- istry failed to enforce them. To the Minister of Health: despite promising British Columbians ten years ago that

British Columbia Debates2144 Wednesday, March 12, 2014 safeguards recommended by the Privacy Commissioner were in the contract, your ministry did nothing to en- force these. Will the minister confi rm whether our personal med- ical information is safe from prying U.S. security forces, or is it already too late? Hon. T. Lake: We take the privacy of health infor- mation, all information about British Columbians, very seriously . W e work hard to ensure that information is protected.

Working with Maximus, B.C., which is known as Health Insurance B.C., dealing with our health insur- ance data, we work very closely — we work with the Offi ce of the Information Commissioner as well — to en- sure that information is held with the utmost privacy. We will continue to ensure that in the days to come. Madame Speaker: The member for Vancouver- Fairview on a supplemental. G. Heyman: Th e fact remains that the Auditor General and the Ministry of Health cannot confi rm this.

Th e Auditor General's report stated clearly that the ministry was relying on self-reporting and that they could not be assured that the terms were being kept. In other words, we now have ten years of promise made, promise broken. Th e minister responsible for privacy protection quite recently assured British Columbians that our personal health records were stored and accessed only in Canada.

He said: "We protect the interests of British Columbians by making sure that their data is secure and kept in Canada so that they are not in any way subject to Patriot Act visits by the American government." Y et the Auditor General said the Ministry of Health was unable to prove this, possibly exposing British Columbians' personal medical, mental health and phar- maceutical records to U.S. security forces, with potential- ly very serious consequences for people seeking to enter or work in the U.S.

To the Minister of Citizens' Services: how can this government possibly confi rm that British Columbians' health data stayed in Canada when both the Health Ministry and the Auditor General can't? [1435] Hon. T. Lake: Th e contract with Maximus was signed only aft er our ministry was assured that the personal information of British Columbians would be protected. Th e requirements for the protection of privacy are strin- gent and onerous. Th ese have been top priorities of this initiative since its inception.

Data storage and access is based solely in Canada and can only be changed with the province's express consent. All directors on the board of Maximus B.C. are resident Canadians, and there is no remote access from outside of Canada. We take the privacy of the medical information of British Columbians very seriously and work hard to pro- tect that information. COSTS FOR SMART-METERING PROGRAM CHIEF PROJECT OFFICER J. Horgan: In 2010 the B.C. Liberals exempted the smart-meter program, a $1 billion expenditure, from oversight at the Utilities Commission.

Despite not having to go and defend a program with no business plan, the B.C. Liberals hired, as a chief project offi cer, Gary Murphy. In fi scal year 2011-2012, according to B.C. Hydro docu- ments tabled under the Financial Information Act, they paid Mr. Murphy $701,892. Th e following year they paid Mr. Murphy $551,969. Y ou don't have to get approval from the Utilities Commission. Y ou don't have a business plan, but you found over $1 million to hire an American consultant to sell a program that nobody wanted.

My question to the Minister of Energy and Responsible for Core Review is: what are you going to say to those people who are now paying 35 bucks a month for a smart meter they didn't want and paying an American $1.2 mil- lion for the privilege of doing it? Hon. B. Bennett: If a ratepayer today is paying the $35 charge, that actually means they don't have a smart meter. It means that they've chosen to keep what we're referring to as the old legacy meter. Th at is a choice that we decided to give to ratepayers. As it happens, 99 percent of all ratepayers in British Columbia have chosen to have a smart meter.

I appreci- ate the fact that the Energy critic is standing up for the 1 percent, and I admire him for that. But 99 percent of British Columbia ratepayers have chosen a smart meter. Th e reason that they have chosen a smart meter is be- cause smart meters are about a smart grid. We're trying to modernize our transmission and distribution system in British Columbia. It will actually help to keep rates down. Madame Speaker: Th e member for Juan de Fuca on a supplemental. J. Horgan: I know it'll come as a huge surprise, but I think the minister might have missed the point of the question.

Y ou don't have to defend your program. By edicts, by legislation, the government said: "We're going to do this, come hell or high water." Instead of just push- ing it through, they spent $1.2 million over two years. Th ey don't pay the CEO that much. Interestingly, we've had three CEOs in that time, but I digress. So $1.2 mil- lion for an American consultant. What value for money, Mr. Core Review, did we get out of that? Hon. B. Bennett: Well, I still can't tell whether my critic supports the smart-meter program or doesn't sup-

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, March 12, 2014 2145 port the smart-meter program from his question, but I take his point, and I will commit to the member that I will look into that particular aspect and get back to him. FEES CHARGED TO ABORTION CLINICS BY COLLEGE OF PHYSICIANS M. Karagianis: The College of Physicians and Surgeons is slamming B.C.'s abortion clinics with heft y fee increases. Fees right now are $2,000 a year, and the fee is being increased by the college to $12,000 a year for these non-profi t facilities. [1440] My question is to the Minister of Health.

What is he doing to ensure the continued viability of B.C.'s abor- tion clinics in the face of these massive fee hikes from the college? Hon. T. Lake: As the member opposite is aware, phys- icians are a self-regulated profession. The College of Physicians and Surgeons is charged to oversee the pro- fession and to regulate the profession in the interests of protecting British Columbians, and they have had an exemplary record of doing just that. Madame Speaker: Esquimalt–Royal Roads on a sup- plemental. M.

Karagianis: Well, both the Island Health Authority and the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority have writ- ten to the minister and asked for these fee increases to be scrapped. Th ey note: "B.C.'s private abortion clinics are diff erent from most other private, non-hospital surgical facilities. Th ere is no ability for these clinics to recover their costs through patient charges." Now, these are all women's service clinics. Can the Health Minister explain what is being done to preserve a woman's right to choose in British Columbia, given these enormous fee increases? Hon. T.

Lake: I thank the member for bringing this issue to me. I would be very happy to follow up with her and with the College of Physicians and Surgeons on this matter. W AIT TIMES FOR FAMILY COURT ORDERS K. Corrigan: We have lots of money for failed Liberal candidates, but not so much for the justice system. Last week we tried to get an answer, any answer, on why the median wait for orders in provincial family court have skyrocketed by more than 30 percent.

Th e Justice Minister suggested that there have been "tremendous strides made." It's pretty outrageous that waits for child custody, protection, maintenance and access orders are going through the roof, and this minister thinks they're making tremendous strides. What's worse is that the government doesn't even know why these waits are increasing. Th ese extensive waits are hurting women and children, and the Liberal government has no clue why. It's been a week, and surely the minister has had time to get a handle on her fi le.

Can she tell this House why we have these unacceptable and sometimes dangerous waits, and what is she going to do about it? Hon. S. Anton: In the Justice Ministry we are most interested in justice innovation and justice transforma- tion. Th at's why…. Th e member opposite mentioned the number: 30 percent. I will mention a number: 33 per- cent. And 33 percent is the decline in number of family law cases which are going into courtrooms over the last 12 years. Th ere used to be 15,000 family law cases go to court every year. Now there are 10,000. Th at is a remarkable statistic.

Th ose are families which have used mediation. Th ose are families which have used our justice access centres. Th ose are families which have used alternate remedies to settle their problems more quickly and more eff ectively than going to court. Going to court is a solution. It is not the only solution, and it is not even necessarily the best solution. [End of question period.] Petitions C. Trevena: I have a petition to table. I have a petition with approximately 3,000 signatures from the B.C. Ferry Coalition asking for fi scal fairness. Th e signatories say that ferries are our marine highways.

We should not have to pay both our fair share of the provincial highways and inland ferries budget, plus an increasingly disproportion- ate share of running B.C. Ferries. [1445] Th e signatories are asking that the government take B.C. Ferries back under more direct control, with a clear mandate to deliver aff ordable and reliable public trans- portation services that meet community needs by im- mediately stopping service cuts and consulting with aff ected communities, cancelling fare increases and re- ducing all fares by 30 percent, and taking responsibility for debt service and capital expenditures.

Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: In Committee A it's Committee of Supply. For the information of members, it's the estimates of the Ministry of Children and Family Development. In this chamber, second reading of Bill 9, the Pooled Registered Pension Plans Act. If I might also thank the House and the hon. member for the kind words earlier. It is remarkable to consider

British Columbia Debates2146 Wednesday, March 12, 2014 the passage of time that we have sat here. Of course, the member predates my arrival but will celebrate the anni- versary himself next year. Many thanks. Second Reading of Bills BILL 9 — POOLED REGISTERD PENSION PLANS ACT Hon. M. de Jong: I move that Bill 9, the Pooled Registered Pension Plans Act, be read a second time. [D.

Horne in the chair.] Th e primary purpose of this bill and the pooled regis- tered pension plan initiative is to address the issue of low private sector pension plan coverage, especially amongst small and medium-sized businesses and, for the fi rst time, to make a pension plan available to the self-employed. Members will know that this act is in substantially the same form as one that was introduced prior to the elec- tion last year. It was not considered through all stages of debate by the House and, therefore, died on the order paper when the House was prorogued for the election.

It has been returned for what I hope will be full considera- tion by the House and, I hope, also, of course, support by the House. Last year the federal government implemented its framework for pooled registered pension plans. Th at framework is intended to make well-regulated, large- scale, low-cost pension plans available to millions of Canadians who have no other opportunity to become pension plan members. Th e federal legislation establish- es these plans within the legislative authority of the fed- eral government.

Th at includes employees and federally regulated industries as well as employees and the self- employed in the three territories. However, provinces have jurisdiction over most em- ployment-related matters in relation to the target groups for pooled registered pension plans: small to medium- sized businesses and the self-employed in the provinces. Th is bill will work in conjunction with the federal legisla- tion by adopting that legislation by reference with some modifi cations for B.C.'s general legislative context. Th e bill will give all B.C. workers the option to partici- pate in a pension plan.

It will be up to each employer to decide whether to set up a plan for its employees to de- cide whether to contribute. If an employer does decide to off er a plan to its employees, those employees would be automatically enrolled but would maintain the right to opt out. Evidence shows that large economies of scale reduce the cost of pensions. Pooled registered pension plans are intended to be large, Canada-wide pension plans with national pooling of investment and administrative func- tions.

Plus, a cross-Canada pension plan allows members to move their pensions with them when they change jobs, the element of portability being a very important feature. [1450] Th ese plans will be administered by regulated fi nancial institutions, such as insurance companies and banks, to remove the burden of pension plan administration from employers. Over the past fi ve years B.C. has been working with the federal government and other provinces to develop changes to the pension system in Canada to help en- hance the retirement income of British Columbians and all Canadians.

Th ough there are, I must confess, diff er- ences of opinion about one aspect of that conversation, that relating to the Canada Pension Plan, I can advise the House that virtually all, if not all, Canadian jurisdictions have endorsed pooled registered pension plans as a part of the solution to the challenge that Canadians are facing. As we know, British Columbians are enjoying longer and longer life expectancies. Th at's good news, in my view. Just in the last 40 years, life expectancy for both men and women has increased by approximately ten years.

If we can create mechanisms in the private sec- tor that make it easier for workers to save for their own retirement while making it easier for employers to off er pension plans as part of their compensation package, it will, in my and the government's view, be better for every- one in the long term. I'm looking forward to comments from the hon. op- position critic and any other members of the House. M. Farnworth: It's my pleasure to rise and to speak to Bill 9, the Pooled Registered Pension Plans Act, 2014, be- cause I think it's an important piece of legislation.

It's particularly important not just for what it does but for where it fi ts, I think, in a broader discussion that is ongoing amongst the provinces and in this country. Th at is on the issue of retirement itself and what we can do to ensure that British Columbians and Canadians when they retire have the income that they will need to carry them through their retirement years, particularly when we are all, hopefully, living longer, fuller, healthier lives than in the past. Bill 9, as the minister has pointed out, is basically an adaptation of the federal bill that was passed earlier.

It's had some tweaking to meet some of the needs of issues here in British Columbia. In my remarks, I'll probably point out a couple of areas where I think it could be im- proved and where we may want to make amendments. Th e bottom line is this. Th is will seek to establish a pooled pension plan that can be taken advantage of by small and medium-sized enterprises in the province of British Columbia. It has the support of many in the small business community. It will be voluntary, as the minister said.

If a company chooses to set up one of these plans, employees are automatically enrolled but have the abil- ity to opt out. It is portable under the legislation, and

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, March 12, 2014 2147 that is a key issue. Th e challenge is that we cannot view this as a be-all and end-all. It is just one small component, and it will not address the overall issue of pension reform and the need for expanded opportunities for pensions, particu- larly around the CPP , in the country and in the province of British Columbia. Th e minister points out that most, if not all, of the prov- inces have indicated that they will enter into pooled pen- sion plans. Alberta has already done so. Saskatchewan has already done so. Quebec has done so.

Manitoba has indicated that they will as well. But again, they would like to see it as part of that larger pension discussion. One of the things that does cause me concern is that much of this has arisen out of the federal government's response to the work that was undertaken by the prov- inces. Th e Finance Minister's previous colleague, Colin Hansen, did a signifi cant amount of work on this par- ticular issue with other federal-provincial-territorial col- leagues in the years preceding 2014. In 2010 a number of studies and work had been done. Th ey looked at the issue of pooled pension plans.

Th ey thought that was viable. But the position at that time, which the provinces were advocating — and the former Minister of Finance in the current government would come to accept it as being, I think, the logical place to go — was an expanded Canada Pension Plan. [1455] Now, the federal government is extremely reluctant. Indeed, in the last round of discussions on this particular issue, when the provinces attempted and wanted to get an expanded CPP on the agenda and to get an agreement on that…. Th e minister's own words, I think, were that the bulk of the opposition came from the federal government.

Th e federal government has resisted this. Th e Minister of Finance, Mr. Flaherty, has said that while there may be some merit to it, not at this time. Th at's a great catch phrase, "not at this time," as an excuse to, well, "Let's just keep pushing it down the road." We cannot keep pushing that issue down the road. Th e issue of an expanded CPP was fi rst put forward in 1980. A federal task force report reported at that time that it was inadequate to meet the needs of Canadians. So it's not an issue that's new. It's an issue that has been ongoing and is going to continue to be ongoing.

But the response from the federal government was to say: "Look, we think pooled pension plans are the way to go. We think this will meet the needs of Canadians." And this is the direction that they're going. Th ey're saying that they're not inter- ested in seeing an expanded CPP . Well, that, I believe, is a mistake. We do need an ex- panded CPP , but we also need to provide options for Canadians that we can do right now where there is an agreement. There is support for the pooled pension plan, and it is our hope — it is certainly my hope — that small and medium-sized enterprises will take advan- tage of it.

But there are issues that we need to recognize. When governments or others are out saying, "Look, don't worry about the pension issue. We've established pooled pensions," well, there are some things we need to realize about that. One, they are voluntary. Th ey're not manda- tory. Second, there's not a requirement for a contribution from the employer, for example. If you're in a private de- fi ned contribution or defi ned benefi t, yes, there is. Under these, there is not. Th ese pension plans will be set up, pooled and man- aged by major fi nancial institutions, as the minister has already stated.

Th ere is no guarantee on return in terms of the return on the money that you invested. So yes, they're an option, but they're not the answer to the en- tire problem. I think the issue of it being voluntary is something that we need to acknowledge as being a challenge. Right now, if you look at the types of…. When Canadians save for re- tirement, many Canadians are in defi ned benefi t pension plans, but those are becoming fewer and fewer. Th ere are defi ned contribution plans, which many employers have in place. Th ere are others who have a group RRSP .

Th is will fi ll that gap between a full pension plan as Canadians traditionally understand it, where there are mandatory contributions from the employer as well as the employ- ee…. Th at is something we need to keep in mind. When it comes to saving for retirement…. Y ou know, there's an acknowledgment that at the very low end of the spectrum, with low-income people, there is a lot in place. We have the OAS. We have the guaranteed income supplement. We have CPP . I'll touch on the CPP on an individual basis in a moment.

But it's middle-income individuals, it is middle-class families that are really struggling to build for their future retirement. Every tax time, this time of year…. We'll see it on TV , on the ads, constantly: "Save for your retirement. Invest in RRSPs." We will be bombarded with ads telling Canadians to do just that. Th at has been going on for decades. Th at has been promoted by government and the fi nancial institutions as one of the key pillars to building a successful retire- ment in this country.

Th e result, though, is still that 80 percent of the RRSP room is fi lled by 20 percent of the people; 20 percent of the public accounts for 85 percent of RRSP contributions. [1500] Why is that? Well, there are many reasons, but the big- gest one is the sheer cost of living in this province, for example — the unaff ordability of this province, which is the most expensive province in the country to live in. We have had stagnant wages for a considerable amount of time at this point.

And in the recent budget there's $4.4 billion being taken out of the pockets of taxpayers in the form of either increased taxes on tobacco, income, cor- porate; 28 percent in hydro hikes; ferry rates. All of those things take away from people's ability to save for their fu-

British Columbia Debates2148 Wednesday, March 12, 2014 ture. It's a fact, and it's been borne out year aft er year aft er year. Th e people aren't saving the way that they should do. Th at's one of the challenges with this piece of legisla- tion. It's all right to go out and say: "Y es, we've now es- tablished a pooled pension plan that small business can take advantage of, if they want to, that their employees can enroll in, if they want to." But the contributions are voluntary —"if they want to." Th e reality is, guess what.

Right now we have "contribute to RRSPs, if you want to," and there's a tax refund on that, yet people and families are still unable to do that. Th ey're still unable to do that. What has been shown over time to be the most eff ect- ive way of doing that has been the CPP , because it's man- datory, it starts from day one, and it goes right through your working career. Th is bill is a step forward, but that's all it is. Th ere are some issues that I think we need to address in it, that I think are worth looking at.

When it comes to committee stage I'll off er up some amendments to the minister to consider, and hopefully, the government will accept them. One of the beauties, for example, of the CPP is the sheer size of it and the relatively low cost of the manage- ment fees, which I think are about 1 percent. It's even better in our own province of British Columbia when it comes to the BCIMC, the British Columbia Investment Management Corporation. Th eirs is about 0.5 percent in terms of administration. Th at's very effi cient and good deal for the members of the plans, both at the CPP level and in the provincial plans.

In terms of your RSPs or if you're in a privately man- aged mutual fund, for example, the fees can be 2½ per- cent, and oft en you don't know the full nature and the full cost of those fees. I think that's something that people should know what they are and have a good understand- ing of. One of the things that I think would make an improve- ment in this bill would be for the folks that manage the provincial pension plans to be able to off er a pooled regis- tered retirement plan as an alternative, as a choice.

If the idea is that we are saying we want to increase the choices that you have, then why not look at that? Why not look at that as an option, where we have a proven vehicle that delivers very good rates of return for a very effi cient and modest management fee? Th at does not mean that someone cannot choose another plan if they want to, but put that choice out there. I think that would be a positive improvement to the bill.

Another area where I think we could make a positive improvement for the bill — and I would ask the govern- ment to consider it at committee stage, when we move the amendment — is around the acknowledgment and the information that's made available to plan members in terms of the fees that they are charged and how those fees may change over time in relation to the amount of money they put in and in relation to the return so that, again, they are in a position to make an informed choice as to whether the plan that their company may have de- cided to participate in is, in fact, the right one for them. [1505] I think greater disclosure on those fees than what's contained in this particular piece of legislation would be an important improvement for the bill.

Th at's one of those issues that we will address at committee stage. As I said earlier, this legislation has the support of many provinces. It has the support of many in the small business community. It will be an improvement for people who are self-employed and will allow them to par- ticipate in a plan if they don't have one right now. Th e big challenge is going to be simply the voluntary aspect of it.

Th e fact is that we have programs in place right now — through RRSPs, as I said — yet still far too many Canadians are not able to make the contributions required or aren't making the contributions required to save for their future. I know there is a view out there from some people who say, "Well, it's up to every individual to save for their fu- ture," that there is that personal responsibility aspect.

It is true that we all have that individual responsibility, but we have developed over the decades in this country a sense of collective responsibility for our society as a whole, in terms of families and at the community level, at the prov- incial level and at the national level. Th at's why the CPP was brought in, in the fi rst place, and that's why it stood the test of time and has worked. Th ere's an understanding and has been an understanding in the country that at some point we all retire.

If people don't have the means to support themselves in that re- tirement, those costs ultimately come back on society as a whole. Th ey show up in increased health care costs. Individuals, as we know, who don't have the resources — oft en the fi rst thing that suff ers is their health. We see it come up in social services in terms of fi nancial strain, which is oft en a leading cause of family breakdown and dysfunction in families. From divorce to violence to children not getting the proper attention they need, fi nancial resources have a big impact on that.

Th e reality is that, as somebody once said, you can pay now, or you can pay later. When the CPP was established, it was in recognition that when we make this a priority, it was to ensure that there is something there when people retire, that they've got those fi nancial resources. I'll just illustrate how important that is. Y ou oft en re- ceive in the mail a statement of where your CPP is. Oft en you hear, whether it's on radio or television or you read it in the newspaper, that your CPP benefi t is there. Th e maximum amount right now is $1,038.33. Y ou go: "Hey, $1,000 a month — that's pretty good.

I'll add that to what I've got in terms of savings. I may have some equity in a house. I may have some RSP savings saved up. I may have little pots of money." Th at's what people see. Th ey go: "Oh, the maximum benefi t — of

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, March 12, 2014 2149 course I'll get the maximum benefi t." But the reality is that the maximum benefi t is not the average benefi t. Th at's for people who have been contrib- uting at the top rate over the course of their working ca- reer and at the maximum salary rate. Th e average is $594, $600 a month. Th at's signifi cantly less — $400. Y es, you get the OAS, the old age security benefi t. Th at starts getting clawed back at $71,000 and is gone by…. I think it's about $112,000 or $113,000. But most people don't realize this until it's almost too late.

When you're 55, when you're 60 — that's not the time to be worrying about that. Th at's one of the reasons why the debate around pen- sion reform has been centred on CPP — that by ex- panding the CPP you actually will give people a much more predictable and stable income that they can build on, that they are in a position, then, that they have the confi dence of knowing they have a CPP in place. [1510] Th ey can take advantage of other options, such as the pooled registered retirement plan — or an RSP , for that matter.

I think they will have a greater sense of secur- ity in terms of building their long-term fi nancial future. Th at's just in terms of an ordinary, average individual. Th at's who we need to be thinking about. Pensions also impact in other ways that we oft en don't think of. For example, the workforce has changed sig- nifi cantly over the last ten, 15, 20, well, 40 years. More women are participating in the labour force, now almost as equally as men — in many professions, more than men. Th e challenge has been that many women in the workforce today still came in at a time when wages were signifi cantly lower.

Th ey fi lled areas of the economy that were paid signifi cantly less, and they were not the pri- mary breadwinner, so their pension benefi ts are signifi - cantly less when they retire. There are many cases of individuals, for example, whereby, due to marital breakdown, there is an unequal fi nancial arrangement in the household. Th e reality is that many women don't get the full benefi ts that they should be entitled to. We've seen it.

I've had cases in my constituency offi ce where a woman has come into the constituency offi ce and has described the problems around the divorce and the breakdown, and the fact is, she got the short end of the stick — in part, because we don't have the resources in our judicial system to deal with issues the way that they should be dealt with. People are oft en in such a state that they want out. Th e result is they oft en get the short end of the stick on the distribution of pension assets. Th e one thing they have been able to count on is the CPP and the OAS. Th ey can count on that.

Th at's why expanding the CPP is what makes sense. Pooled pension plans, as I said, are a positive step. Th ey're a step in the right direction, but there are a lot of issues around them that we need to be aware of. We really need to understand that we are not going to address the issue of pension reform in this country with- out looking at the broader pension picture as a whole.

What I am particularly concerned about, from state- ments that I've heard from the government and particu- larly statements I've heard from the federal government, is that that is exactly what will happen — that as far as the federal government is concerned, the issue is closed. I think we have to make it clear in our remarks today. I think we have to make it clear in discussion of this bill, both in second reading and in committee stage.

What I particularly want to hear from the government side on this bill is that they do not view the issue as closed, that they acknowledge and they recognize that this is just a small step — yes, it's an important step, but it's a small step — and that the real issue that needs to be addressed, the real bulk of the solution, is in an expanded Canada Pension Plan. Th at's what needs to take place, and if the federal government is reluctant, the province will work with other provinces and put pressure on them.

Some provinces are already ahead of us in terms of saying this issue is too important to leave to the federal government. Ontario has indicated that they're not pre- pared to wait. Th ey are looking at other options. I think if they do that, then there will be pressure on us in British Columbia and other provinces to look at what Ontario is doing and perhaps to join with them in terms of say- ing: "Well, if the federal government is not prepared to act, we are." Th is issue is much too important to con- tinue to ignore. As I've said, this bill is a small step.

It's one that we will be supporting. [1515] There'll be some amendments at committee stage, dealing with expanding the range of choice in terms of plans that are available for individuals to take advantage of, for small and medium enterprises to take advantage of. We'd like to see some improvements in terms of the reporting and the transparency when it comes to fee structures. I think that that is crucial. Th ose will be two areas of amendment, and if we can improve the bill, that would be great. I know that other colleagues of mine have issues that they want to address and comments that they want to remark on.

But at the end of the day, I think we need to send a message that somebody's retirement should not be constricted because they don't have the means to re- tire on, that there aren't the programs in place and, more importantly, that those programs have not changed over time because of a lack of will or resolve on the part of government to do that. When you look at the facts and the state of retirement plans today and how few people…. I mentioned the RRSP in particular. When 20 percent have 80 percent of the contributions, that should say something. I don't think anyone wants to see a retirement where someone

British Columbia Debates2150 Wednesday, March 12, 2014 is forced and their retirement is basically spent looking out a window because they don't have the ability and they don't have the fi nancial resources in place to actually fully enjoy their retirement. I've fi nished my remarks on this bill, and I look for- ward to comments being made by my colleagues. L. Krog: One of my colleagues on the side opposite sent a note to me a few moments ago when the Minister of Finance was introducing or making his remarks in second reading. It said: "Y ou better be listening.

Th is is a fascinating topic." Now, discretion prevents me from mentioning who that person might be. But I would say that notwithstand- ing the humour it generates and the smiles and chuckles in the chamber, the older you get, the much more fascin- ating a topic pensions do actually become, in your mind and in the minds of your children who are hoping you won't diminish your savings and estate too much so that there will be nothing left for the little rascals when you actually pass over to the other side. In fact, pensions are a fascinating topic and always have been a fascinating topic.

I can't help but think, if you read many historical novels or novels that go back some time, that of course the great reward — certainly speaking of English literature — was the concept that you would get a living of some kind. Now, it might require some work, and that living might be the curate of a small parish, a minister in some obscure village, but some op- portunity to derive an income that would be paid basic- ally whether you were able or unable to perform the task.

If you were landed gentry, the expectation was that you would have income that would sustain you through your lifetime without necessarily having to work for it, and it would be paid by your happy tenants regardless of whether you could perform any useful service or not. But the concept behind that way of thinking was that at some point, it's nice to have security in your life; it's nice to know that things are taken care of. I want to pay my compliments to the government for introducing the Pooled Registered Pension Plans Act.

Particularly with the presence of the Minister of Finance, I do want, in conjunction with other members who've spoken earlier, to recognize him on his 20 years in this chamber. I was here for that fi rst term, way back in the early '90s, and recall very well aft er the '91 election the group of Socreds who were left to sit in this chamber, the seven of them.

Th ey were referred to, somewhat un- kindly, as the seven dwarves, given the — how shall I say? — signifi cant reduction in the numbers of Socreds who had so dominated British Columbia politics since 1952 and, I think I can safely say, since before I was a glint in my father's eye.

I want to take this opportunity to pay tribute to the Minister of Finance on the attainment of 20 years in this place and also — to take just a small advantage; I trust the Speaker won't be too overly scrupulous in the enforce- ment of the rules — to just say a word or two about his predecessor Harry De Jong. [1520] Harry De Jong was one of those seven dwarves, as we referred to them rather unkindly on our side of the House. If there was ever a contrast in terms of politicians, and I say this in a complimentary way to both of them, Harry De Jong had absolutely no political ego whatsoever.

I have rarely met a politician who was so utterly selfl ess and un-self-promoting, I might add, in terms of his pol- itical career. A quiet man, when he spoke, you listened, because it was rare. When he said it, it was worth listen- ing to. Indeed, he spoke very passionately on a couple of occasions. Th ere is always that wonderful contrast in this place, but both demonstrated a success in political offi ce that is to be admired and respected, as does the service of every- one in this chamber who enjoys the honour and privilege it is to be elected to the B.C. Legislature.

As the numbers grow, as the population and history pass, I'm always reminded of the fact that I think if you're sitting here, you're one of the roughly 900 in the whole history of the province of British Columbia who have had that privilege. Harry De Jong was one of them, and the present Minister of Finance is. I'm delighted to say a few words about this bill. What is it Ronald Reagan said in his critical way about the Democrats and the growth of government as he saw it? "If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." Th at was Mr.

Reagan's way of attacking the concept of big government. It's an interesting approach and refl ected, certainly, the ire of the right wing in its day about government and regulation and the interference of government in the economy and all of those things. But when we are talk- ing about what's proposed with the Pooled Registered Pension Plans Act, we are talking about essentially big- ger government, in a way — social democracy, if you will. To come back to my point earlier about people wanting to secure a living and have some security for their future. Th at's what we're really talking about.

What this bill is de- signed to do is to provide, if you will, an option that exists now, arguably, in one small way. It's just that we want to make sure that the folks we entrust our money to and the people we seek advice from will in fact be regulated and will have to face some form of regulation. Now, I'm not entirely sure that regulation is what the government is hoping to create here.

I oft en hear mem- bers on the opposite side talk about how the best thing government can do is get out of the way of people and out of the way of the economy and all those sorts of right- wing-rhetoric lines that we hear over and over again. But what this is a response to is something that I have heard time and time again from inveterate free-enterpris- ers in my own constituency. Th ey say, "Well, I don't have

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, March 12, 2014 2151 a pension plan," the implication being that the mem- ber for Nanaimo does. I won't use my name. Or they'll say, in reference to unions: "Th ose folks have a pension plan. I don't." Of course, as our distinguished House Leader indicat- ed earlier, there is a vehicle — registered retirement sav- ings plans — which can be a bit of an interesting game. I'm sure many members in this chamber who have RRSPs had the great joy of watching the collapse in September of 2008 and seeing the diminishing hopes of early retire- ment slip away.

It's a vehicle, and it's important. It helps provide some- thing to a group in our society, in our community, whose only option now is RRSPs, which have some downsides to them. Clearly, if you pass away too young and don't have a spouse, there's a horrendous rate of taxation, de- pending on the value of the RRSP — maybe not the best vehicle.

It's pretty clear from statistics that those who contribute to RRSPs are oft en a very small portion of our society — higher-income earners, with access to greater income during their lifetimes than many others. [1525] It's obviously a reduction of income that would other- wise be available to both the provincial and federal gov- ernments by way of a payment of income tax.

If you can put $20,000 in an RRSP this year, you're not going to pay the income tax to the province of British Columbia or to the government of Canada that they would in turn be using, presumably, to benefi t society as a whole, whether that's to pay for the creation of infrastructure or to pro- vide and deliver services that British Columbians and Canadians want. Th ere's an argument to be made that that's not the best system.

It's particularly not the best system, perhaps, when you consider that whatever jealousies may exist around the disparate incomes that exist in our society, the way to deal with those, I would argue, is through de- cent, progressive income tax. Unfortunately, now we are living in a time when we have, arguably, the worst of both worlds.

We have a small- er portion of society receiving — and retaining, it would appear, given the growth in wealth — a greater and more signifi cant portion of income than at probably any time in the last hundred years since the gilded age and, at the same time, the lowest taxation rates on income tax on high-income earners that we've seen in a very long time and certainly since the end of the Second World War.

When you hear that jealousy expressed about those in the private sector — particularly in smaller compan- ies, non-union companies, owners, small entrepreneurs, small business people — raising a legitimate complaint about not having a pension, there are two vehicles, es- sentially, for them. Th ere are the Canada Pension Plan, to which they have to contribute, and their RRSPs. What this does is provide another vehicle, if you will.

It gives them another opportunity and, hopefully, some assur- ance they'll be placing these funds with folks who can provide — I won't call it a guarantee — some comfort that what is available will in fact be useful for them. It comes back to, I would suggest, some very basic philosophical questions: what kind of community do we want to live in, and what are the values which bind us together as a community?

I think for, certainly, many on this side of the House — because I've had those discussions with colleagues — and, I suspect, many on the other side, the concept that we live in a society where the disparities are so obvious and so great, where some live literally in the streets and others in multi-million-dollar condos and mansions, is not the kind of society that we're anxious to see continue. We want to create a society that is somewhat more equitable, where opportunity is more readily available.

One of the ways of ensuring that is to ensure that when you come to that age, if you've been able and have worked, you have an opportunity to have an income in retirement that will at least give you some reasonable lifestyle, some level of security.

What this bill does is help provide another option to ensure that when and if that time comes — because not everyone makes it to retirement — you will have an op- portunity, through this bill, to add to the income that the state will provide by way of Canada Pension Plan; old age security and the supplement, if you're entitled; your own RRSPs and withdrawals from them; or indeed, depending on what you do through your life, perhaps a small pen- sion plan through other employment. I think we need to recognize the reality of the changing workforce.

Th e concept that one goes into one occupa- tion or position was never entirely true but is certainly even far less true today than it was 20 and 30 and 40 years ago. Th e concept that you would remain with one em- ployer or one single type of employment is just simply not the case anymore — particularly for young people, who are moving from job to job, employer to employer, and oft en working at incredibly low rates of pay. [1530] After all, the Canada Pension Plan contribution is based on your income to a maximum level. If you're earn- ing $10.25 an hour, your contribution is not going to be very signifi cant.

It's why the Opposition House Leader pointed out that notwithstanding the maximum under CPP is up to about $1,038 per month, assuming you get the maximum, the reality is that the average is more like $594. For those who spend their lives working in low- wage jobs, it will be substantially less, which is the whole purpose of the guaranteed income — the old age secur- ity and the supplement — to give that kind of a boost. When we talk about a pooled registered pension plan, what we're talking about is a vehicle to recognize that at a certain stage we're going to need some kind of support.

We will simply not be in a position, because of age or dis- ability, to continue to work and earn.

British Columbia Debates2152 Wednesday, March 12, 2014 I remember listening with some horror to a neighbour of my grandmother's who told me that the practice — as he recognized it, or certainly, he believed — of one of the major railways in this country, for many years, was to try and fi nd an excuse to can somebody in their early 60s be- fore they got to the magic retirement age so the pension wouldn't have to be paid. Whether or not that was true is not the point I'm trying to make.

Th e fact is that people stuck in positions because they knew they would get old and that pension was the one thing they could cling to. So pensions are important. Now, for the very rich this may provide some extra ad- vantage. For the very poor — and by poor, I mean those in terms of income — it's probably not going to do very much. Th e reality is this will be far more useful for those in that great but seen-to-be-somewhat-shrinking middle class in this country. Th e poor have no opportunity to put money in pen- sion plans.

Th ey are, by defi nition, not working in union shops, where pensions are virtually mandatory. Th ey are not working in industries or occupations that provide decent wages. As for the very rich, arguably it doesn't matter, be- cause they're conscious of the fact that if their income is high…. And I think it fair to say that when you get to $71,000 a year, some of the government benefi ts through the national programs are going to be clawed back in any event. But for all those people in between, this provides that other vehicle. It does create more regulation. Forgive me.

I'm not going to make this point very well, but I try and make it with almost every bill that comes through this place. Th e government talks about reducing the size of government. It talks about reducing the numbers of regulations, and then brings in a statutory scheme that's going to regulate a whole bunch of folks now who aren't necessarily regu- lated, who may be undertaking fi nancial advice and all sorts of things without benefi t of regulation. Th en

section 11, for about 11⁄5 pages goes on to de- scribe: the Lieutenant-Governor-in-Council "may make regulations referred to in

section 41 of the

Interpretation Act." It goes on and on to talk about how they can make regulations with respect to this, that and the other thing. In other w

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20140312pm-Hansard-v8n3
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20140312pm Hansard v8n3
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	cb3de37cbe5da32171e35ae8cf6de37d7b21292b

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