Volume XL Friday Province of Newfoundland FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND Fourth Session VERBATIM REPORT (Hansard} Speaker: Honourable P.]. McNicholas Number 31 6 May 1988

The House met at 10:00 a.m . MR_._SPEAKER (McNi.cholas): Order, please! The hon. thE! Prr:Hni.er. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Spc,~aker, r.J.S a result of 0vents that have occurred in the last twenty -four hours, and in taJ.k i.ng to . the leader· of l:he Opposition (Mr. Wolls) c:·md thf:! r•::lpro~;r~ntal.:.i.vl':' for the NDP Par·ty, thE! rnE!ITiber for St . John's East (Mr·. Long), T wtsh to seek leave of the House to suspend the normal rules of the day in order to debate the following motion: I rnove, seconded by the M:i.nist:E!r of Fishe!ries (Mr.

Rideout), that th'i.s HouSE! of Assembly go on record as condemning the actions of France· yesterday concerrd.ng the arrest of five Newfoundland F:isherrnen and that a resolution be drafted by an all--party committee to be passed today clearly outlining this Province's outrage of such an action. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! MR. ~')PEAKER: Does the han. the Premier have lec\lJe? MR. WELLS: Mr. Speakor . MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Leader of Opposition . MR. ·wELLS: Jhank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker, that is cornplE!tE!ly in line IJJ:i th thE! corniTIE!nts rnadc"' · tn this HoUSE!

YE!Sterday aft:E!rnoon by rny fr:iend, i:he MHA for Fogo (Mr. Ll.608 May 6, 1988 Vol XL Tulk), when this was suggE!St.ed, and we are happy to give leave and . to support thi.s proposal. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! MR. LONG: Mr. SpE!c\b:!r . MR. SPEAKER : The han . the mernber for St.. John 1 s Eas i.; . MR. LONG : Mr. Speaker, just to b E! cJ. E:~clr o n hOIAJ IJJr,~ cH'e proceeding, i.l:: -L s 111y understanding that debate will commence immediately on this motJ.on as the all--party rE!Solution is being drafted, and then the resolution wilJ. be brought back to conclude the emergency debate . AN HON.

MEMBER: Yes. MR. LONG : Fine, Mr. Speaker. We w:iJ.l bE! glad to give leave. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: I tJnders t.and thE!re -i.s l~~ave . Tho hon. the PrE!rn:ier. PREMIER PECKFORD: IL1r:i. s h to th;:,1n k Lh.::~ I .. E:H~dc;!r' of thE! official OpposiU .on and t.IHHlk t hE! member for tho NDP For g i u'i.ng leaVE!; I called both hon . genth~mc~ n Uris morrdng be fore'! the House opened. Just for clarification, we know the rules by which we will be governed, since we now have establ.tshed this procedure From now until one o'clock to debate this

part i c u Jar r·e sol u tJ.on for now No. 31 R1608

condE:1mn-Lng the acli.ons of Fr'clnce, then very shortly we 1.uill have a draft resolution available which thc-:Hl, I IJ.Jould take it, somebody From the Official Opposition, whom the Official Opposition will d"'1signat:e, pl1js l:hr.:1 hon . rnc-:Hnber for St. John•s East- it is the Minister . of Fisheries (Mr. Rideout) from our side will get together to go over that draft resolution to see whether it meets approval, or if any changes or amendments might bE! nE:1E!dE!d to it t.o get a cons·ensus.

Meanwhile, we will continue to debate in the House th-i.s particul.ar resolution that leave has just been given for·. We I.1.Jill have U1at as soon as we can, and hopefully, then, we can get into thcc1 debrl te on tha L re:1solution. Th~~n COITI(-?.S thc-:1 rnat:ter of speaking .in · t h ~~ H o us e . ( IJ n d (;! r s 1.: <:~ n d fro rn our· H o us e L C-?. ad c-:1 r (MIn .

S i rnm s ) , j n a di.scllss "i. on wi.lh tho off:-:i.cJnl Opposit:ion House Leader, that the iH'rang~:!mc:!nl.: "i.s that both leddE:1rs would have thirty rrd.nut:es and C:1VI'::H'Y othE!Y' mcc1mber would have fjfteen minutes, in order to give as many members of the House as possible an opportunity to address t.hemsc-:1lves to t.hc-:1 r·~~soluLion. I 1.uo u 1 d j us t 1 ike to hear fro rn thE! membc.;1r for• St. John • s East on that, if that is okay. MR. LONG : That is okay. PREMIER PECKFORD: So I can proCE!ed, then 1 I takE! it, Mr . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: It is agre!ed. SOMF HON.

MEMBERS: H e cl r , ~H:~ a r ! Mf~. SPEAKER : L1609 May 6 I 19 88 Vol XI.. HH~ hon. the Prem:i .er . PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, let TOE! say :in launching the debate on our condemnation as a Legislature f9r the action taken by France yesterday that I spoke last eve rri. n g IJ.Ji t h o 1.1 r f e cl CH' a 1 representative in the Cabinet of Canada (Mr. Crosbie), · and at that point in time they did not have much information. I provided as much information as I could to Mr. Crosb:i.e on Lhc-:1 maU.:E!r, and I have not heard fr·orn anybody in t.he Federal government yet this morning.

But this morning, tn a special C a b :i n e t. me E! i: :i n g t h El 1·: IAJ a s h e 1 d a t 8:00 o•cJ.ockl the CabtnE!t fur·thE!r d:l.scusSE!d th:i.s rnal:tf:!r . WP havr::1 sent a Telex off to the Prime M"i.nister on behalf of the governrnE!I'lt E!Xpressing ou1n out:Ta~~E! o v E! r 1: h 8 a c 1.: i o n s J: a k e n b y F r· a n c l;' on the evening of May S, 1988, and Lhe t.rntAJiH'r'anted dc,1'\-.(!l'l l.::i.on of a Newfoundland inshore fishing vessel 1n waters off the South Coast of Newfoundland.

This flagrant action by the French violates a long history of harmonious praC'tiCE!S by thE! srnc:'!J.J. boat fishermen of Newfoundland and St. Pierre Miquelon in these l.o~Jaters. Traditionally, smaJ.l boat fishermE!n have fished sidE! by side in IAJater·s bc~t.I.Uf:~en St. Pieri"C~ Mtquelon and the Burin PE!ninsuJc-~. WE! go on r·ecord as co111rnend:ing t:hP Secretary of State for its Ex f.: ern a.l A f fa :i r· s , ·M r .

C 1 iH' k , for suspending thE! mediat:l .on t.alks, and · we also end the Telex by saying that the Gover·nrnE!nt of NeiAJfoundl.and cannot: support any resumption of these taJks until the Full i.rnplicat.ion of Franc ~ 's actions has been determined. No. 31 R1609

So we do not want Canada to resume these mediation talks tomorrow, we n~:!ed to sJt dotJJn and to clearly study the implications of what France has done yesterday. Mr. Speaker, as we aJ.l kno1~1, this tJJhoJ.e question of FrancE!' s rights tn Canad-:lan 1~Jflb::1rs, or tn Cc.HH'Ida, has been the subject of many, many dE;bab:1S OV(:1r t:h~~ yer-u·s. WE! Cc:Hl go back to treaU.es that were signed between Great Britain and France right up into the nineteen hundr'E!dS. rhe Troal:y of Utr·echt, the Treaty of Versailles, and I t h i. n k t: h ('!

T r ~~ c:tl.: y of P c:·\ r i. s , a l. l. cH' I"! involved historically in the ongoing bc:l'i:.th1 bet.t~H:!E!n t.ho Br'i.t'i.sh Empire~ and the French EmpirE! oVE!r ter-ritor"ll,!S around the. world. Not~J being a Province of Canada, in 1988 we still find Canada and ourselves debating this whole isstJE! of France's ongoinq rights, hotJJever dofined in Canada, and have bE!en for l:he last numbE!r of years. We had, as tJJe a11 know, the 1972 . Treaty, which tJJ(:' th:ink tJJas a mistake, signed between Canada and France wh-:lch gave certain rights to the French as it relates to St.

Pierre and Miquelon, fishing d.ghts and so on. AftE!r that, we had t h i s 'i. n fa m o 11 s Jan u cH' y 2 4 agreement between the Governmont of Canada and the Government of France concerning trying to r· (:1 s o l IH:! b o l: h t h e b o u n d c:\ r y :i. s s u e and the f]sh issue, France's r·ight to Fish tn Canadian walers.

Unfortunately, over the years Canada has aJ.lowed itself to be p1Jt. i.n thE! postt-Lon 1: hdt ~:!vc~n though :it '.is a national boundary t: h a t i. s to b (:1 d c·d: E! r·m"i. rH::! d h (;! r e , they will do it and have, over and over aga:i.ri, mad~::1 l:h(:1 linkag(! bettJJeen the boundary and FranCE!' s right .: to f :ish, so that what has L1610 May 6, 1988 Vol XL happened over the years, and Canadians and a lot of Newfoundlander's are not totally familiar with this, is that Canada i ts(,1lf has allotJJed to be US(~d in determining a boundary St..

PierlnE! and· Miquelon, IAJhich '.is st:i.11 French territory under :international law and internationaJ. trE!aty, to haVE! thE! bounddr'y issuc;! becotnE:1 l:ink~~d IAJ-Lt.h FranCE! 1 S ongoing right to fish, so lhr:-1t i.n i:.r·y-Lng l:o r'E!Solve !::he boundary thE:1 only part of Canadc~ thai: cornprom:i.sos and sdcr'if:iu:!S anything in order to get that boundar·y clearly dE!FJ.nc;!d :is Newfoundland and Labrador.

OnE! of l:hE! fundarnE!ntal princ:i.plE!S I~Jh"ich hds etl.tJJays gu:'i.dE!d our· adv:.Lce to the fE!dE!raJ. goVE!rniTIE!nt has bt1tHl, Please, Canada, deLl.nk ".i.t., do not makE! the rE!SOJ.ution of thE! boundtH'Y issUE! dep~::1ndlo'l'lt upon FranCE!' s ongoing l'':i.ght to fish :i.n Canadtan waters.

Because when you start doing that, t.hE!n uJ.tirnat.E!1y, given that there has to be compromises and mediation, for a resolution of it more and . more fish are going to have to be given to France in order to get the whole thing solved. · We IAJerE! very, very upSE!t. and outraged when the Canadian government entered into secret t a.l k s tAli. t h F r e~n c e c::t n d s :i g n E! d 1'.: h a t: January 24· agrE!E:1rrt(,Htt. We tJJE!r'e not.: "i.ntJOltHH:I. \ille cl'i.d nol·.: knotJJ about it.

And one of the clauses in t h t.'ll: a g r· f~ (,1 rnE! n -1:-. s (~ 1: l:: h P p r· -L n c i p l E! for not only having th~:! bus.im'ss o f F i s h :i. n g r i g h l:: ~; b o i. n g r· E! s o 1 v l:! d , but going so far as to tndica'I:E! thal Canada was prepared l:o provide additional fish, outside what ~~Jds surpliJS t:() CiH1r.-1da's or Newfoundland's nE!E!d, :in an at.t.E!rnpt to get a resolution to this matter. So we had a series of meetings ensue which saw the No. 31 R1610 •.

Can1:'1dicln go,Jer·nrll(~nt p1.1t ling certaJn tonnes of non-surplus 2Jt--3KI., or Norl:-.h<H'n cod i:\S tAlc~ call :i.t, on the tab1e oin addjtion to other fi.sh b(dng ptJt on l.:ho l·:ablr~ ar, IAIE:~lJ:. We have always taken the view, Mr. SpeakE!r', t:hdt, yes, we rE:H:ogn:i. Z(:~ international law.

We recognize, unfortunately dnd regrettably, that that right to fish is stiJ.l th<.;!rE!, but. it should b~:! def:i .nE!d in any agreement with France based tJpon fJsh that was ava:i.lable, in other words, surplus fish, and that we were prepared as a province to advise thE! fE!deral government in their negotiations 1.r.Jith France, Yes, they haVE:1 a right to f :i. s h , btl t t hi.'~ t right can on 1 y bE! de f i ned o n tAl hat i s .

You cannot define something on what is not and, thereforE!, any rE!SOlut.ion of f'.ish qt.Jotas for Frctnco should be done on the basis of surplus sp<,1c.ies of fish, in oUHH' IAJords, fish that tJJas sur·plus to Canada 1 s n(;1('!ds, and in thclt : IAJdY def"i.n<~ France 1 s right to fish. Mr. Sp<,1al<c:1r, whon yo1.1 look a ·t. thE! fishery of Newfoundland and you look at what has hctppehed since the 200-mile lim:it., an attempt to try to bring somo sans'.ible sd.enttfic managerial control over l:ht-:! r·esource, L t only mab1 s good sense. We WE!re preparE!d, and we told thE!

Carmdii'.ln government OVE!r' and OVE!r again, that if E~uer this tAJent to arbitration we think that we would have a good case be!fore any ind<:1pend<;!nt ar·bitrat:ion l:o argue, Yes, FrancE!, you haVE! a d.ght to fish but that right has to be definE!d on what is availablE ! , and that tha-t. IAJould b(:1 surplus stock~. Already Canada has offerE!d France:~ l:housdnds and thotJsands, tE!nS of thousands of L1.6l1.

May 6 , 1. 9138 Vol XL motr·ic t:onnos oF fi.sh IAJh .lch IAJE!r(;! surplus to Canada 1 s needs, which · c 0 u l d b A u s (~ d 1·: () F u l. f i J 1 l: I' I (~ international obligation of Canada to provide fi s h to France. But once you rnove beyond that, as Cl.'lnada has donr~, t hen tAJO haiJE! f .i s h on t h (:~ tab 1 e f r· o rn Uw 2 J + 3 K L c o d stocks, off the E6\S l: and Nor·thr,~as l: Coast of NeJAJfoundland, :i.n addJt:i.on to all tho sur·pl.us f:i s h t:hat. has already been offered to France.

France has beon extremely unreasonable, and in every poJnt a 1 on g the tAla y has p 11 t road b 1 o c k s in the way of a resolution to this rnatt< ;!r. Wh<,~n it C!.-J.rne dotJJn t:o Lhe crunch, Mr.Speaker, and when Canada p~Jys:ically, if you w:ill, offer· r~ d Northern cod, a nonsurplus stock to the Fre:Hlch, IAH~ IAJalkE!d diAJi;(Y Fr·orn thE! table, and every action s'lnCE! that t.: i.JnE:~ v'.'i.nd"lcat.es t:he:1 pos·:.i.t .. i. on tAle took at that tJ.rnE:!, E!VE!I1 though c\ 1: th r:1 l:: .ime:1 mo s l: f\J(~ IAJf o u nd 1 and E! 1~ s said we were wrong. SOME HON. MEMBERS: lh~ar·, heiH'!

PREMIER PECKFORD: lt Js e;::~sy, Mr . SpE:'i:~I<E!r', to stand up for Newfoundland and Labrador t•.JhE!I'l t·.i.rn(:!S dr'<;! E:1c1sy, Lo sl:and on sorn(:1· thE!OrE!ticaJ. premiSE !, to stand on some thoore t ical idea, when you do not have to deliuer on t he goods. But, Mr. ~)pc~a.bO!r, IAihE!I1 that theory be carnE! pn-tct:iCE!, when IAJB had to put otH' money tJJhc~ro our mouth was, we stood up f o r Newfoundland and Labrador ev e n against some of our own people. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, I·J<,1ar! PREMIER PECKFORD: We told-ti1e-;-f· E~dera1 goVE!r'nJnE!nt, I told Mr.

Crosbie and [ told the Prime Min:lstE!r and I told anybody No. 31 rn61.l

IAJho would listen to us, that you cannot deal with this country, France, in the way Canada was going about it, knowing the way that France deals all over this IJJor·ld; thE!re 1.1.Jas a book IAlr'itl::en a couple of years ago by a European which IJJas called, as I sa:l.d in the House sorne time ago, The Quarrelsome French. We have seen, 1JJe have reaped what we haVE! SOIAJI1 on this issue, Mr. Spc,, aker.

Even though Canada went against the long-term best interests of one of their provinces in p r o tJ i. d i. n g n o n - s u r p l1 1 s No r !:1-H~ 1~ n c o d to the Fr EHI c h, lJJhat did thE:~ French d o ? 1 G i. IJ o me m o r· e ! G i \J o rn e mo r· c~ ! Gi. v e me mo I" E:' ! 1 Then they de1:i.bc;!r'a l:ol.y i:lnnOIInc<:!d, 1 WE~ <H'e go'.i.ng t:o send a tr·awler into SotJerE:~.i . gn Canadtc:·ln IMiJttr:!r'S. Canada, would you please arrest us? 1 They d<:~l-Lbor·ate1y d:i.d i.t.

This is a country which has seen Canada give them tens of thousands of tonnes of surplus fish, and offe!r to givE~ t:hE:nn a signifiec.:otnt amount of fish that we did not have to give thom. That is how unreasonable the French have been. Now, yesterday they have taken another provocative act by arresting or detaining, whatever the phrase is, a small Newfoundland fishing boat and bring:l.ng it. :into St.

P'lel"re and M:l.quelon, and there is an historic understanding between Canada and France that in the small boat ftshc-:~ry, t.hoy IAJi.l.l f J sh s"i.cl<:! by :.·ide-:~ off one-:~ another 1 s I"Ocks. 1\J E! v ~~ r· be f o r E! h d ~' c,~ ..-i. t. h E! r· c o 1.1 n i". r 1J takE:Hl this action, so IAJhy rioiJJ, Mr· . Spoctkc,~ r·? T.l: Cc:\l.l.s 'into quc,~:;t:i.on thE! IJJho]<~ appr·oach Canada has l:clken on this mrlttor. rt calls i n t o q u e s t i o n t h e i r l.l.l h o 1 E:' negotiating stratogy. NOl.I.J, the L1612 Mr. SpeakE!r', l.I.Je h<:l\J(:!

Si-.dd to federal government over and May 6, 19 8 8 Uol XL over and over again, you have to use some big st.icl<s in the same . way as FranCE! has bE!en using big sti.cks. Canada SE:H;!ITIS to want. to u s e i n the world t hi s n :L c E! , middle-of-the-road diplomacy this will gE!t. you E!VE!rywher'E!. And, I suppose, generally speaking, given that WE! arE! a middle power .in the world, that has some merit. But that is a gener;:ll, overall diplornal: .:i.c policy to ~e followed.

That has to be arnE:~nc:IE!d f1"om t 'i.ITI('! to t i.rnc'! to deal with one specific country or another spec'i.fic country, depending upon the politics and 1-: h e a t t. :i. t: u d o o f t: h "' 1·.: s p e c :i f J. c c o u n t r y . I n t h i s p a r t i c u 1 a r· c cl s e , t.hi.s gon<'!Y'r.ll, n:i. CE:', di.pl.ornal::oic approach that Canada takes does not work. Tt has faoiled miserably. It is almost a s if Canc!ldr.l IAJi.shos 1-.o prot.oct Br··it:t.any over protecting Newfoundland and L<itbr·ddor.

How can any NetAJfoundJ.andE!I~ or·· Labradorian, knowing what has happened to the inshore fishery over thE! last thrE!e or 'four years, for whatever reason agree w'.i.l:h giving one single ounce of Nor·thern cod to l:h-e FrE!nch, whEm our inshore fish plants are cJ.osed do1JJn s·Jx and SE!VE:!n ITionl:hs of the year, when l.I.Je have thE! lcJwest s tandr.lrd of l:i.v -i.nq :in Canada and thE! hJ.ghest taxes to tr·y to susta'i.n oursE~l.vc,~s? So , n OIAJ, IAJe '~' ~; a g CJ\H! I" n we,~ n t: h c;! I" E:! in NeiJJfoundland and L.abr·aclor helVE!

L o l. o o k UH' o f u lly "' t cHI r' o n g o oi. n q relationship where our powers 0 X J S t: IAJl. t: h S 1:. . p :i. I;! I" r' e d 1'1 d MiqUE!1on. We havE:! to r'E!Vi~~IAJ al1 of Ol.li" b.il.a+ .: E:!Y'i"'l i:lr'J"di19E~rllE!I'1tS; !AlE! have some with St. Pierre and M:iquel.on. WE~ hc:·11H! to look carefully at all our bilateral r· <~ l. a l: .i o n s h i p s . No. 31 R1612

I do not k nol..IJ how the people of St. PLE,rr·e and M"iqu~~lon fe::1el, so one has to be careful whether they Rre just cl pctwn t n the ongoing larger French political system at the preSE!ni.: rrrornc~nl.:. But IA/E! rH'O . go :ing to haVE:1 t.o reviE:1tAJ them and look al:. 1-.h~~m dnd we dt'e going to have to E!VIi:HI gco~t tougher in the f1Jt1.1re thi.'ll'l tAlC~ tAIE!r ( ~ :i.n the past as j t rE:~lat.es t.o how we advise::~ the f odC::H'al govc,~rnment.

And Hwro ctre a lot of pE!Ople, I arn surE!, in Newfoundland and Labrador who would say we have already been too tough, we should not hHv t:~ tAJall«:'!d away from thE! tablE!. That is l..IJhat I hei~rd, Mr. SpeakE!r. Now it is clear why we walked away from thE! t.ab1e. We knew tAJho we IAJC::1re dealing tAJH:.h. The Canadian Goverr11mH1t d:id not IAJho they WE!re dE!aling with. So we ar·e going to have to look car<-?. f IJ 11 y at E! v <-?. r y t. h i. n g that. IAJE! do tJ.rith St. P:i.er·re and Miquelon, bE! cau s <:~ ·in tl'w f i nc1.l i.Hlr:d . y s i. s Hw y are a part: of the country called Frr:'lnce.

WE! cdnnot h~~lp thi!li:. That · tAJc~s done historically in tr·~~at Lee's long bE,for· r:~ L~Je WGre l'lf:!rt', we meaning us who are here now. Bt~t :it is a sad, sad affair· that 1.1.JC::~ fi.nd OIH'SE!llH:~s i.n a palftl: :i.cul.ctr situation today, Mr. Speaker, IAJh.'i.ch, I suppose, t ~ ; no d:i.ffer·enl : than situations that we haVE! been .Ln thr·oughotJt our whol~~ hi. story; Uw mor·e things change, thE! more thE!Y r't-:!rrli'l:in i::h~~ Si:'\JTie, .it S(,1HITIS, as it r~~latE!S to NewfoundJ.and and Labrador.

Just as you th :inl< you arr:' making one stE!p forward, just as you thJ.nk you are starting to make ·some improvement, all of a sudden you get an awful smack across the face. We get thE! 200-m-i.le li.m.i t t:hr·ough The Lat~J of the Sea ConfE!rE,nce, and everybody around thc,1 lAJOr'l.d laud~~d Ur.i.s wonderful internationa1 agreement Ll61. 3 Mi.·) y 6 , 19 a a Vol XI. which would protect us, only to find, t:~S IAIE! find toddy, lAJ~J.ich . exacerbates the existing situdtion, t:hRI··.

IAJe ar·c,~ r·c,1cll1y thE! only country ProvincE! now -.. in t h e lAJO r l. d -1: h a t h i:'l s a Co n i:. .i n c;, n 1:·. a l SheJ.f that goes out beyond 200 mt l t~ s IAJh ~~ r· C:! i:: h C! r· C::1 t s a s .i g n .if .1. can l: fishery. I have checked this Argent i na and Australia phy~ically some Continental out b~~yond a 200 · ·-lfl:i.l~~ Li.rn.it, they have no fishery. out.:: haVE! Sh(!]f but We are the only place in the world blr:~ssed to be unbl.E!SS~~d .

WC::~ have out there the Nose and the Tail of the Banl<s, IAJh:ich :i.s not. covei"E!d under . international Jaw, and so this great international initiative and accomplishment is soured only in Newfound1and and Labrador out of the wholE! IAJOI~1d, bt1Cdi.ISE! for·(~:ign nal:.ions can go o1.1t. there and fish the spawnJng grounds befor'E! Lh(,~ r=-t s h CO!TIE! j nside the 200-·miJ.E, 1 i.m:i.t. We hr:11Jo b~~en ctrgtt ·.'i.nq t.hal: . onE:!

IAI:.i. t:h the Canadian government ever sin c e T. hi.~lJE! br,1E'!I'l Premier dnd l.i:'tst year· tAJe finally got them to agr·eE:' that Canada tAr.U.l Lry onco mor·n Lo t;.:'ll.k to the other countries of the IAJor·J.d 1:1bot.1t. E!Xl: E~ndtncJ "i.l~, and t~hc1.l: i f t h a t: i. s n o t: d o n E! • t h e n Uw y rn-Lghl: hi.~VP. to t.c::tk<~ S OITIE~ lr!OI"E• drastic action . How long that will. tRI<e, one never l<nows. Wt~ r.H'~~ b~dng attacked notAl b(;,caus~:· our Continental Shelf is beyond 200 miles, and so the Nose a nd Taj.l of thE! Banks is bEd.ng r·apNl. We had an EEC agreement which alJ.owed thE!

European countriE!S to fish so !Tiuch fish off our· shorr;!s, which has now lapsed. We have the F r· e n c h IAJ h o t h :i. n k t h r:~ y c a n f i s h i n Newfoundland now aJ.most the same ClS t:hr:~y cUd 100 yE~ars aqo. As a result of all of that, Mr. No. 31 Rl613

SpeakE!r, as tJJe said at the ti!TIE!, we have other Canadians who believe that they have just as off Forget much right to fish NetJJfoundland as as WE! do. history! Forget convention! There :is now a lobby group forlrlE!d in New Brunswick and Quebec, with money, tJJho, over the last t.I'H'(,H:! or four months, anytAihE!l"E! you go, at any ftsher:i.es mHet.ing, are ther·e lobbying the:~ fE!deraJ. gover·nntent to g "i. v E1 t. h ~'!ITI so tne 2 J -f· 3 K L. f :i. s h . They thought they were going to get some th i.s y(:hH' IAih(Hl Ut(:1 tnanagc,1mont plan camo out for 1988. They were unst.tcce:1ssful. But., Mi".

Sp~~ak(;!r, jt .is only a matter of time. Thor'f:! <:\re fr.\r more s~~at:~; :i.n Qttc:!I:JC:!r. and Net~l Bt"unsw:i.ck than ther·e arc-?. 'i. n 1\J E:! w f o u n d l. d I'H~ d n d L c:~ b r· r.\!;1 o r· . T h e y can !;ay, If th<::1 French naU on can 9<'! I: somf:! of your· so--ca1lc:!d nonsurpJus fish, how about Canadians?

Tt 1s only a mat:ter of tjme when we wilJ. not onJ.y be lhr·eat:enE:!d by r.~ for·oJ.gn potAIE~r· on their right to fish in Canadian tAla t H r s , b u t b y o Ut e:1 r C a n a d :i. a n s w h o will seE! to it that they get some of· that so-calh1d surplus fish in 2J+3KL, while our fish plants are closed down, while our f.ishermen cannot fish. So you have ·the French unresolved, provoking Canada Lo get. rnor·e fi.sh, and provoking us through actions like were taken yesterday. You haVE! i··.he Nose and Ta""i.l. of Lh(~ Banks being rape:1d bE!Cause :it -.is no L ptH' t·: of Lh(,~ I.. alAI of th(;!

So ell 200---ru:ilE! loi.m:it. You have other C d n a d i. r.l n s , c'1 n d , n o d o u b t , i. f 1.: h ·:i. s is evr:~r solved and t.h.:1 FrE!nch gE~t sowe mor·e f:"i.sh, you wJ.l.l. hHtJe the Ger·mr.1ns and the oth(-?.r tnE~rnber·s of r~EC sr.~y i.nr;;J, We i:·\rc~ mornbc;!I"S of Lhc;!

EEC, t.oo, as Fl"ance is, and :if one mc,,rnber· of Lhe EFC can 9('!t. sotrtf:! fish off Newfoundland, so can we. 1...1614- May 6, J,9aa Vol XL The only ones who are J.eft are the Net•Jfoundland( ·H'S and La-br·adorians . to E!ke out somE! kind of an existence here as everybody else crowds around us and tries to take fr·orn us that IAih . .i.ch "is otJrs historicaJ.ly. That ts why, Mr.

SpeakE!r, WE! haVE! always taken the position as a governrrtE!nt, on bE!half of t.l-lE! people of Newfoundland and Lab~ador, that there has to be SOifiE! gr'E:1at:.er cont.:r·ol For Newfoundland and Labrador in the f"'i.Si'lOY'Y, hOIME!lJEH' you dEd~ . i.nc->. it: out. That tAic\S one of thE! b:i . g~~E!S"l:. rn:i . st:~:'II<E:!~; "i.n t.hr~ T(H'tns of l.ln.i.on. One of the biggest mistakes in the Tr:!r'nt~; of l.ln""i.on IAic:\S l~hat, l:hat . tAle need more say in the fishery, I:J f~ I; c!l 1.1 S C,' IAif:! C r:Hl n () {"-_ d 0 :i. i:. IAJ."i. 1.: h S E'! ~) ('! 1'1 seats.

It.: is the sarnc~ k·.ind of at"9UITIE!nt t: h r:\ 1": t: h c;! ~\los 1·:. Int.·\ k o s F" or· ~:) (;! n a t. e reform. If you have a Senate IAI h :l c h -i. s <c:1 q 1.1 a l 1 y r· E! p r· e s c;! n L E:• d , t: h (;! n you have to have power that you could not get through t:he House of Cornrnons. And if we do not get it t.:hr·ough sorne d .ifferent ar·r·angE!Inent on l:he fishery, this kind of action that IAJ(-?. are taking today tAri.ll be~ repE!ated over and over again. It .is vital! The Lc,~ad(->.r' of !:he OpposiU.on thinks some1A1hat J.ike the Ci:\ndd:i .an goVE:11"ntnE'!I'lt.

H·.is staternE!nt tJJas, WE!ll, it :is aJ.l r·:i.ght: i:'.o gtv~) a l.i.rni.t·.E'!cl a1nounl:: of cod to the FrE!nch to r'E!SoJ.v~:! this tnr:~ttor· . Thc:'tl ·is h:i.s pos:i.t:ion. That is his positton. And I 1 1 n d C:! r· s t:. r.\ n d IAI he~~ E! h o i ~; c o rn ·i. n g f r· o rn in U·w lar·ger conb~xt. The only f>r' o b l om tAri. 1: h Ut .:'1 l: J s l. :-i. k E~ C a n a cl a , you are not. dealing with a l"et:·\SOnHbl.o 9I"Otlp of FJC'!OpJ.(:' and you havo to think qf thE~ consE:!qtHHlce~; of that : i.·\cti.on. IJE:~caus(:! oncc,1 you say thclt, you ar'E! aJ.so St:"ly:i.ng that No. 3 1. rn614-

New Br·unswick and Quebec and oth(~ rs IIIU S t be abh1 to he~ v (:1 d limited quantity of fish iAihE!Il a dispute hdpfHHlS. pecause the Cane~dian way of solvj ng HLLngs, and the Leader· of thE:1 Oppos'i.t.:lon's IAidiJ of soJ.ving thi.ngs is, when th<-:'!re is a d:i.sp1~ le, Uwrn hHs to b<,~ a settlement and, therefore, E~VE~rybody has to COiflf>l"OHJt~;c~. ~\1<:~ cannot afford to compromise. SOME HON. MEMRFRS: HHi:lr', hE~dr! PREMIER PECKFOfW : . We cannot afford to compromise . We:~ a r· e n o t a g a .i n s t c om p r om .i s <-?. .i f you can afFord to.

If I arn b1.1'i.ld:ing a house and I only have,~ enough land around mE! to put thr:1 hous(~ on, and of the land next to my footings on the house some1onE:1 is cld.inr oi. ng part. of a foot. thai: . I can afford to compromise, because I wtll not b(~ able to get out of my housE:~, I tAri11 be on somebody else:1's land . T h a t "i. s t h e s i. t u r.l i: i. o n tAle d r· o into. It is not a question intell.ectue~ll.y of understanding that compromise is a laud:ible c o n c e:1 p 1·. , i. t: i. s "' q 1 1 n-s t :i. o n o F b <~ .i. n g able to afford to and sUlJ. livt:1 .

Then this other misconception about 01~r pos :i. t:'i.on, wh:i.ch h<'ls b(:~<'!rl deliberateJ.y done by lots of pc;!opl.e:1 "lnsido dnd outsi .de the Pt"ovince. W<~ ar'"! not as ldng for E!V(:1ry+:.h:i.ng in the Fish(:~ry. w~~ put out pamphlets showing everybody t..uha t f c,H:I <:H·al co nt.r·o l, 1 :i. c en c-i. ng and policing of foreign fishing vessels, should still be in federal · hands . Internatiom1l fisheries negotiations are in federal hands. WE! talk licencing inshore fishermen in provincial hands st.:i.ll about bc,~ : ing and L16 15 Mc:~y 6, 19HH Vol XL negotiating the sharing of lhE! TAC.

Th"i.s t..uh<,H'(:1 our· pou.Jc~r comes · from. There should be a r(:1q1~"i.r·r:nn~~nl·.:, 111andat.or·y not ju s t·. consult, and then thE!Y sliJ.J . have e~l.J. l::hc poi~H! !I" to do IAJhc:·l t they 1..11an t. Ii: Js sorno good for· rnc:! 1-:.o I:-.E:~11 you, Yt:1s, boy, we wil.J involve you :i. n l: h-i. !> , 1~1 ~-~ 1.11 :i J. l. c o n s 111. 1:: y o 1 ~ , 1~.1 h e n you have all the field so you consul.!-.: i.Hld you go r:li'Wi:ld w:il·.: h I;Jhat you .1..uere going to do anyway . That .l s no p_o i. n t . You c a n not g E:! 1:·. it through poJ.itics, through seats, beca1.1Se lAH:1 do not hHl!O 1-.:hE!

P<'!Opl.E! to have that many more seats in the House of Cornrnons. You havE• to get it thr·ough a more rNlsonabJ.e s har· .i ng of pou.Jer· s bet.IAJE~''Hl thE~ ti.~Jo levels of government. Mr.

SpE!akE!r, I hope this incidE!I1t yc-?.sterday and l:.he:' dc;!l.l.b(:!ral: .E! incident three or four u.JeE!I<s ago of sc;~ndoi.ng l::h<:~ir· t:raiAJ1('!Y' J.nl:.o Canadian sovereign waters, i s bt:1g"lnn:i.ng to dE~rnonst.r·al : c'! l:.o Canadians, and especial.ly Neu.J'fot.lndl.Rndc,~i"S dncl L.abr·ador·:.i.dns, the cold, hard, brutal t.:r·uth thcd.: 1..110 do not ht!tl.Je t:ho l.uxur·y t:o bE! what other people consider r<:'i:'150nabl0 . We~ do not h r:·lVe l::hat. 1 u xu r y if, in f r.l c t, IAJE:' a r· e going l:o b11.i.lcl i'l lJibr·r:·lnl·. soC.l('!l::y ·in Newfoundland and I. abr·ador· cHld s t·.op t h

f) d r• r.d. n t-: o To (' o n l: o o In C !'\ l g eH' y o r Edmonton. We do not have lhe }IIXIH'Ij. (lnd i:Hllj Sl'lli':\l.J. Socj_E!ty anywhere in the world ha s shown that. Fr·orn IcE~l.iilnd ~:!v~:!n t:o GrE1enland, for God's sakE!, cHlcl o t: n e r· s maT l soc -i. o t i.e s , you d u not have that kind of luxury. Mr. Speaker, we have a copy now, 1 think, of a r(:1solut· . i.on. AN HON. MEMBER: I haVE! just passed it out. . ' It ts not signed by ('i.naud.ible). No. 31 R J. 61. ~.

PREMIER PECKFORD: Oh, no, 1 k notAl. So '"H"' IAJ'.i. l.l. 11 t:-llJ E! to get somebody from the other side to get together AN HON. MEMBER: Thc,1y have it: now. PREMIER PECKFORD: Who will it be from the other side? Mr. W. Carter, Mr. Rideout, the member for Baie Uerte White BBy and Minister of Fishe::1ries, and the rm>.rnber for St. John 1 s East. I just hopt~. Mr·.

Spo<'\kE!r, thi'tt. by the time one o 1 clock comes c;!V~H·ybody 'i.n t:hi.s House CcHl got behind a resolution of conden1nr:~t:i.on t.'lnd "i.l".s dE!ta'i.J., so that IAIC-:l can stand ta] 1, proud, and r· i.ght For· sornc:!i·.htng ·t:hd l·. ot.her countr·:i.es, :i ncJ udtng OIH' OIAII'I, are t:r· y 'i. n 9 1: o 1:. "~ k r~ dtAIH y f r' om 11 ~; . SOME HON . MFMBERS: Hei'.lr, het.H'! MR. SPEAKER : B e f o r· E! r· e c o g n 'i. z .i. n g t1·1 e:1 h o n . t. o i.~ d e r· of the Opposition, I wou1d like to welco1ne f.:o thE! galleri~~s thirty Gr·ade IX students, and their teacher from St.

Peter 1 s Elementary in Mount Pearl . I would also like to welcome sixty- ... one LE!Vel 11 studc,1nt.s. I see one of them is Jackie Efford, daughter of the;! hon. thc,1 rnc~mbor· for· Part: de GraVE! - who arE! hE!rE! IAri.t h UH-:l i. r· t: c,1a c he:1 r s, U (H'do n Mf! r c CH' and Edward Neil, from Assension Collegiate in Bay Roberts. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, ~wat"! MR: SPfAKE~~: The hon. the L.o ad E! r· oF Opposjti.on. Ll616 Vol XL SOME HON. MEMBERS: H~~i'lr, hE!ar·! MR. WEI.LS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr·.

SpE!aker·, there is not much diffE!rence of opinion Jn most. respects betWE!E!rl what the hon. the Pnmd er s a"i.d t: his rno r·rd ng, and l.: he official Opposition. Certainly, t.her·(:~ i.s abso1utc:'!ly no dtfftH'E!nce of _opinion as to thE! E!nd to be a c lri. e v ~~ d , 1~.1 h a t o u r· g o i'l 1 :i s , a n d what our goal ought to be, but thor·e ar·c sornc'! d'i.fferencc,'S as to the means of getting there, how f: hat I.~J -L J l. be rr1 o s t: c;! f f Cc1 c t. J v E:! J. y achiE!Ved.

This incidE!nt.: YE!Ster·day ha!; br·o11ght tlri.s rnc~t.i:.er· t:o a hc;!i:'td today and caused this emergency dr:!bc:·ltc,~. fl<'!·Fol"n dnybo1Jij judge!; or· condemns any par·U . cuJ.ar e1ctJon, it.

J. s nOI"IIIi.d l·:o c:io c:~ fct:i.r•l.y t·:.hCH'OUgh assE:1SSITIE!nt. to make;! sur'E! that t.hE! a c 1: ·i. u n "i. !> IAJ r· o n g , p i::l r· l: ·i. c 1 1 l. c\ r· l. y w h e:! n it takes place Jn circumstances where there may be a difference between the parties concerned as 1: o '"lh a t.: ·i_ s r· ·i. g h t.: or tAJr' on g ·i. n 1:: he area, and there js. a difference b~~ · t:IAJC::H;!n Fr·ancE~ and Canadd t.Hld IAI i. Lh respect t.:o thE! boundary around St.: .. PiE:H'r(:1 and Miqurcdon c\nd Newfoundland. But, Mr.

Speaker, in thi.s part.::i.cul.ar· ·instancE~ tAlE'! do not neE!d to know precise1y whE!rE! t h e :i. n c :'i. d (:1 n t: t: o o k_ p 1 a c e .. W C'! d o not need to know that it tJJould bE• on the Newfoundland sJde of the equidistant line between the two t.:c,H' r -i. t o r· ·'i. e s , b f:1 c a u s C'! , M r· . S p E~ a k e In , for decadE!S and U!n'l.urJ.es thE! peopl.P of Sl: . . P:i.E~r·r·e c.tnd MJ.quc,,lon have fished in these waters '"' t 1:: h o u t. pay "i. n g IJ E~ r· y rn 1.1 c h d t. t ~=! n l:. ::i. o n to lines or boundaries.

It has been a practice of hundreds of years and the action of the French 'i.n l.:hose c·oi.r·cunlst:i•)nCE:!S is terrible, is totally J. n c o nt p r n h (:! n ~; ·i. b 1 o . No. 31 R1616

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE:1ar! ·MR. WELLS: We do not need to do a fine detailed examination of the rights or· IAJrongs i.n or'dE~r t.o condE=!Iim i.t, it order to jojn with the go IJ e r· n 111 E~ n 1·.: to p e1 s s <~ n u n n i':\ n i. rn o u s resolution of this House to conch~Hirl t-.hat act:i.on. rt~ "i.~; cape~bJ.e of :imrned:i ate condernne~tion, and L h c:d.: i. s p r· c,1 c.:i. ~' f~ l. y hJh <:·\ t: .it ought. t.o have-?. by aJ.l rnc,11TibeJns of Lh i.s Housc,1. The Pr·eHI i.c;!r 14Jond(:H'ed, dur· :ing his comments, how the people of St.

P.i.(:1r·r·e fE~ll:, and IAJhc;!t.hc;!r' thE~Y IJ.JE~I"C:! just being used as paiJJns by Franc 1!:1 . . In fact. , I suspect I know how a gr·eat number of our people, par·t.i.cuJ.ar·J.y the people-?. in For·tune Bay and on the Burin Peninsula gr:HlE!raJ.J.y, fe<-?.1 about i.l7 .. ThE!r'E~ is great interaction between the pE!Opl.e of the BurJn Peninsula 'in par· t i c u l a r , a n d t he peoplE! of S t . Pierre, and the f'ishc-?.rmen of those two e~reas hava a great und<-?.r·stand"i.ng for onr:1 anothE1r r.-md share in hardships on · a daily bas.ls.

T. dcwbt very much that this is the deliberate, provoccttlve action of thrn peopl.0 of St. Pier·re aJ.onE~. I suspect 1: h i'l 17. 'i. t: -L s d t-. 1.: r· ·i. b u l:i:~ b J. I'! pI" -L 1111'1 r J 1. y , · if not totaJ.ly, to thE:' GoVE!rnment o f F r'i'l 11 c o . T h d ·l: .i. s d j, f f -j_ c I 1l. l: 1-. 0 knot.o~l with cc-?.d:cdnty, but :in all of 1':. h o e lJ i. d (;! n c C:! l h d 1: ~~IE:1 hi'\ IJ C:! b f:! for·

f) us thi'..tt:. is thE~ onJ.y 1nat.ional c o n c lu s .i. o n 1.: o IAJ hi. c h o n e c o 1 1 1 d c o rn r,1 . rl is also consistent w'i.th another c,went that has bet::Hl happE:1ning in t.h(,1 l.dst f(~IAJ dctys. Pr•.i.Jfl('! M ·:i.n·.i.st:E~r Chirac, in his poJ.itical battle IAJi.th Pr·esi .dent M.ittc~r·r·and For t.he future presidency of France, has br:1en do.ing ot:hE!r th:i.ngs, J.Jke ar-r-anging, somE! say by thE! paymE:~nt of many t:<;!ns or· hundr·c,1ds oF L1617 May 6, 1988 Vol XL rnill:i.ons of doJ.lar·s, for the re!lease of the French hostagE!S in . i..ebanon 17.0 achi(:WE:1 polit.Jcc~l support.

He has also broken his agreement wi.th New ZeaJ.and and released the p~opJ.e who were in j~-l·i.l c~lS r·E~SIIlt of bowbinq t:.hE! Greenpeace boat in Auckland Hi:'IY'bOIIr, c:lnd h<:·lS IIFJSE'!t l::hE! governrnE!nt and the pE!Ople of NeiAJ 7. r,1 a 1. <'lnd i.HllrJ<,1 n s c,1 J. y <:\ s <·l r· E! ~' ul. l:. of it . A 11 t. his is t. OIAJa r· d t h (:! pol ·i, ·l". :i. c a J. c:! n d o f g H .. L n "i. n q p o .i. n l:. s for· h.iiTJseJf in the FJ~c;!nch pres·i.dential run -off el.ect1on between PlniiTI<-?. M:inist .E!r C~dr·ac and President M.i.tl:errand.

Thi:lt ni~\Y wHll bE:! clS rnuch a factor' in this decision as a dE!lHlE!ratE!, provocdtive ctct i on to provoke further the dispute between Canada a n d F r a n c E! , o r· :i. 1: 1r1 a y t.o~J <'! 1 1 b e a cornbinatton of both. But. ono cannot J.ook at the political E!VE!nl.s of thE! IJ.JorJ.d of lhE! last f t::11AJ d a y s a n d n o t t: a k e t h a t. :i n l:. o account in this particular si ttJat.ion.

If l h d l:. is .i. n d. e E:! d 1.41 hat ·t s behind it, then the actions of ·Uw French Gov E! r· nme n t <'H'E! r(:1pred ·1 en !d. b 1 e, t.o disturb the good and pE!aCE!ful rc,1l.CI t i. 0 n S bE!tiAJE:H:Hl t hE1 f i. S h(O!I"ITI(;! l'l 0 f' St. Pierre and the fishermen of t h "i. :> P J" o v 'i. n c n , 1~1 h o h ;:'tv e for· decades and centuries put.: out. the:-i.r n1:•t:s t:ogr:!i.:h~.:1r' "i.n t:hC:! Si'llriE! waters and s halnE!d the salliE'! f:L; h. J do nol: br,1l. ·.i . ntJf~ thnl: : 1-.:hE!r·o ... i.s anybody in this Province who wants t.: o sc:-~y l :: od;:~y to i:hn pE~opl.e oF ~:)t . .

Pierre and to people generaJ.ly i::hdl:. l:hi'\1-'. should chi:\ngE :!. r suspE:!ct:- . they 1.o~1ant to continue on IJJ·.ith the practices of the pctst for smalJ. boat fishermen, for the inshore fi.sher·iiJE!n, and therEdn lif~S l::hE! cJ ·iffE!rE!nCe. ThE!re is anothe!r concE!rn that should bE1 JTIE~nt"i.onE1d, Mr·. Spf:!aker', No. 31 R1617

c:HJ d l: h "' t i :> r. 0 n c 0. r' n r 0 r' l: h 0. fi;,hc·H'm~~n t.vho at"(,1 the pawns of l::.hi.s tJc,~nl:.ur-n by Lhe (;ovor'nHJf'!I"Jt of Franc~~- SOME HON. MEMBERS : H ear' , h c,1 iH' ! MR. WFLLS: Bol:h l·.:h<:1 GOVC-H'niiJent of this Provincr:1 and thE! Government of Canada must take that into account .

We cannot allow .our fishermen, who are prosecuting their daily work For l::hE:1 bE!nefJt of thi.s Pr'ov.ince and for thE! benE!fit: of this countr-y, as IAH,~ll r.lS for thc,dr' otJJn personal benefit, to bear fully thc,1 bn1nt i:Hld L:h"'1 cost of t.lrLs endeavour by the Government of F r' <'HI c 1::1 . W c,~ h 1:-\ v C:! t: o t a k (:~ t h a t. i. n t: o account as tJJE'!J.l. Mr. Speaker, the Premier raised s Olrt(:! o t. he~ r' que s t"i.o n s . T s hc:-~.I"C'! h-i. s vi. BIAJ t h i:l t these issues as t. o thE! bound i:H' y a I"O u nd St .

P ·i.E! r r' E! i:HJd MJquelon and whatever other rights France may haue to Fish ··in Canadoi.an IAJaters ar-e indc-:!pendent of 0 n ~~ c:-l n () 1: hE! r I d n d t h (,1 1. s s u 0 !) J II u s t: be resolved independently on the b C\ S i S 0 f t h C:d r 0 IAJI'l r' E:~ S p e C t. i V E:~ rne1nits. We cannot deny the fact 1:: h a t ~3 t . Pi C·HT o J s p a r' t o f Francr:1. It is par-t of a foreign nation, FrancE:1. They do not haVE! to simply wait upon our acquiescence as to hoiAI HJuch IAJi:ti:.c·H'S they are entitled to as part of their territorial IAiaters or part of their economic fishing zone.

That should be determined at international laiAI and their are clear principles of internationr.ll J.a1.v for· deter-mining it:.. We ought to go i.Jtnn<:~di. i.·lt~~l . y to r.lrbJtr-at: ·i.on to d~'terrn:ii'IE! that. issue according to pr i nciples of 'international l.aiAI ctnd put: an c,Htd to this ir-rat:iomll a c 1': i. o 11 , 1:: h "i. s 1-. .i. 1:. F o i" 1: <:-l 1-. <:~ c 1.: :i. o n back and forth betiAJeen our tiAIO L1618 MHy 6, 19B8 \Jol.

XI . c o 11 n t r i. f.! s <:~ n d e l :i. rn :i. n <.·l t e difficulty and · diffe!rE!nCE!S 0 Xi. :> 1:: b ('! i:.IAH~ ('!f'J 0 Ll r' p e 0 pl. 9 . tJl~~ that I was i nte res tE!d to hear thE'! Pr·em'.'i.er' 1 ~' cornmc;!nt t.h "i.s mor-ning that he acknoiAiledges France's r'"ighl:: t.o fi.sh ·in C;:~nad·.i.i'!n IAJatc;!r's. He acknoiJJledgE!S that. WE!ll, I can understand his acknoiAiledging it. It is thE!rE! in trE!atiE!S that <H'E:! cc-:>ntur'i.~1s old. Whr::~t is uncer-tain is !!Jhat are the E!Xact J.irnit.s of those r-:igh l:.s. NotAl 1-:hc-?. PrE!rrtit:!r' has his definiUon of it.

He says it ts confi.n(>.d l:o F'i.sh that ar'E• s u r p 1 u s to C iHJ ad :i i.HJ 11 EH! d . That i s a highly desirable position. There is no question about it., it ts a highly rlestrable position and we should do everything IAiit:hin our power to try and achieve that result, but, Mr'. Speaker, is it the position al': internat~onal 1atAI? W(1 do not knoiAJ. That:. shouJ.cl bf~ dol ... c,'l"tll:i.nc:!d ar:r:or'1l :l ng l':.o l::hC'! principle of international. laiAI .

I..E! t: nobody dot1bt IAJI'Jctt OUI" posi l:: ·i.on is with respect to that matter, ar1d lAJha·t: 011r' posit'"i.on "i.s IAJ :i. l::h rE:'spect: t.o othr:~r provtnCE!S. Whj 1E:! 1~10 c <:·l n no L i. n Canad d, and I~.JE! acknowledge that we cannot · in C d n ad a , d :i. c t a t e a b s o l.u l: e 1 y tJ..J h a t: the French fishing rights IAJJ J.l bE:! i':.hc~t rnust b~~ dc;!tC-?.r'IIIin':!d c't international law what IAJe can cHct.al~e, Mr . Sp~~aker, and lot the!re be no doubt about it:., J.s IAihat ctre the rights IAiithin Canada .

And we have said cons.:i.stonl:.ly fr'otn i:.hE:1 b~~(~inning that nobody in this count1ny, no othc:!r' F".i.shC'!Y'Inan fr'Orrt any ol:h('!ln province of this country should have righLs to fish a limj.ted totaJ. aJ.lotAJable catch in 2J, 31<L waters, or waters generally off thE! Coast of NE!IAJfoundland, unlE:!SS i:lnd tlnti.l. l:·.he t·.ol·:.r:·'l n(:!C;!ds i:'1nd capability of l::.he NeiAifoundland r ·i.ShE!rtnen dl'ld fish p'l, ;'lnl::S i:II"E• first met in full. No. 31. Rl61.8

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WELLS: No other province of Canada should have the right to fish 2J, 3KL water·s so long as therE! is a capacity i~o cat·.ch and <:1 capi:H:i.ty to pr·ocess here. SOME HON. MEMBERS : H o a r· , h e i:'l r· ! Mi~. IJA(RD: . Whi::\i: iii swjtc:h! MR_: WF.Lj.._~: :a :i s n o t a s tA.d t c h ! I t h a s I:HH! n o 1 II" p o s :i. 1-. :i. o n o n l~ h E! r· o c o r d f o r· ntont.h~; iHid rnonths. :r:t :is there. R c~ ~~1d ·it.. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. WFLLS: It. ls thE!r'e, rE!i:ld il:. none so blind as those nol: see, Mr. Spc-:lakc->.r·. tabled in thE!

House, as of fact, months ago. MR. TOBIN: Thl'::<r(~ · ar·e who will It tAla s a rna t t. e r The day of the Throne Speech . MR. WELLS: No, it IAJi:'IS not. N ou.J, M r . S p o <:~I< e r , t h d t: ·i. s c l ~· i:'l r· l y our· pos:i ·l::ion. The Govc~rnmE,nt of Cdnr:·H~'" h<'1S th8 tnc~dn!; i'lt: :i.ls di sposaJ ·t.o r'c-:lgUJ.i!ltc~ and dc-:d:.ccH'm:i ne U1 (·1 l". IAI i l:. h c o r h .d n 1:: y , o t) ''' n t. h o ug h it does not have the means to del:.o rln'i.n('! l,o.Ji.l:".h cor·tdoi.n+:y the,, extent of French fishing rights in C <Hl cu:I-L a n IA~t:-11:. C'! r· s .

B u l:: 1~1 o s h o u l d act upon that which we can dE! "l<H'III"i. J'W !.Hl d Til a k r~ S 1.1 r'<~ t. hi.~ t 1:: h C fisherman of Newfoundland and L a b r· ad o r· , w h o h a v 1'::< p r· o ~; (;! c u l: (~ d t h a t. fishE~ry for· ce,ntud .es, have first crack at. f.:hE! +:ot.aT Cdnadi.an r· .i.ghl:s Ll619 May 6, 1988 VoJ. XL. in those waters, and to thE! E!Xt.ent that there is surpJ.us fish _ avaiJ.ablE! to that neE!d, th~Hl IAJE!. rnt.lst shi'tre IAJ:i. !"·. h our· s:ist:E<r province's. That, Mr. Spe,aker, is thE! pr·oper ct.ppr·oach. But. tt. :i.s r:1lso pr·op<-:,r, Mr·.

SpeakE:1r, to try and dE,tE,rrn:i.ne at: the e~rloi.est possible opportunity the exact limits of l~hc,, r·i.ght:s of Fr·ancG!, ·i. f any, to fish in Canadian IAJat:~H'S . It:. would b<,1 ni. c r~ ·i. f lAIC.:! could pl.li" s uad E~ an i ntE• r· nat:ional a r·bit.ra ti on t l"i bu naJ l:hat 1-:h<-:! Prorrd.r:,r·' :; pos i.l::t on "i.s I:: I'H'.! c:or-r-c,•ct one. 'f. Ci'lnnot S<'11J IAri.t:h C(:,r·l:i:t-L nty, cit ·~: ; a matti'::H' of inte,r•nationaJ li:'l.IAJ, thaL that can eas-Lly be dchieved. I have heard the Premier's (~Xpr·(~ss i.on i:·1b011t l::hc\t. l:: his morning.

I do not share h"i s confidence thctt that can be so easily achieved before an .indepE :,ndc-:,nt i.nt: c;,r·ndl:"ional. ar·b:i. t:J"al t r i b u n E! , b u t we s h o u 1 d l r· 1J to ach:ic,w<-?. it. Tf, ·."i.n the HHH~ntirnE~, IAJE! C<:J.n . IAJOrk out an agreernr::•nt t.~.rit:h France' that: IAJO u l d s e e t h o s e:1 r· -:i. g h t s ph a s E< d o u t after three years, eJ.iminat:ed t. o 1: r.t l. 1. y a f t e r· L h r '"'' E:! y (~ a r· s b y m ''' a n s of agreeing to the:ir having a l:i.rn:i.t:(~c:l catch -Ln th(:' lfiE~··lnt.:irn('!, then I IAJould think that may IAiel1 b C:! Cl I~J"i.

S C:' IT10 lJ 0 0 1'1 0 II Y' fl 6l Y' l: b (! C i:H.I S (-". it gets rid of l::he problem f o r· o tJ f'' t ' . I d rn n o t: P l.J ~'' n c E:! r· 1'·. 6l .i n that that can be a~hieved, buL 1:.1-mt ·i_ !; <:·l mr.d: ·I· C:'!l'' oF noqo t. i.cll"". ion between the part:i.E!S. If it. couJ d b r.~ a c lri. o t)(;!C:I :i. 1: IAJO u l. d b ''' a tJC-:! r· y desirablE:• E!nd, and rnay :i.nd~H!d I:H:! a s nli:1 ll. p r· ""i. c e l": o p d y F o I" our· f u l.: tu· E' SE!CUrity, and for gE!tU .ng r·:id of l:".he unc:erta-Lnty of international arb :i t r· a 1 t r i b u n a 1 s . Tho s E! , M r· .

S p o a k ,;, r , d r· e 1":. h e d .i. r· (~ c t: ::i. o n s IAJ h i c h we ought to be taking. No . 3 1 Rl6l.9

Now, Mr. Spor•lkor·, ti'JHrE~ lliCH'O d number of other issues that the Pr·om:i .E!r r·a""i.sr;!d i':h'i.s HJor·n:i.ng t.hd'l-. I ruay IA.W] 1 dE)al IAJ:i.i:h on anot:hE:11~ 0 C C r:·\ S i. 0 l'l , b U 1:. t h 0 I" CO! .i S 0 l'l H t: h :i. l'l 9 hE?. 1m~nt-.ioned thc:tL I think I shouJ.d d~::1a l. w"i. t:h now. And hr=! IIIE!I'I-1:: ·i.orH =! d tiH1 appr·oach to declling IAri.i':.h Fr·anc(:1.

Franc~) hr:·\S IA.Jel1-known d-.iplornat.i.c not much had a pcH' ·l:oi.cl.ll.ar i.~nd record in :internatJonal rel.at..i.ons. doubt about Th(:!r'(~ that. :ls The P r· r:Hn i e r r· e f CH' r· E! d t o o n e p a r· t. .i c u 1 a r book that deaJ.t with the issue. Fr·anc(~ t.akc,1s a part.: i.cul.c:tr' appr·oach that puts the intE!rest of FranCE! fir·st and foremos1:, and noL only fir·st and for·emost but it frequently says the LnLerest of FranCE! is the only interest that ls worth considering.

S o lAI.i. t: h r E~ s p E~ c 1:: l: o 1·:. h d t: p o :i. n t: , l·: h e Pr·endt~r':, corruTIE! nt is reasonably IAH~l.l. t.ak(:!n. But thdt: dor~s nol:. 1m~cHI t.hat lAH~ hau~::1 to be equaJ.ly t r· r a 1·. "i. o n ~\ l · L n d E~ a l i n g w :i. t h 1.: h r~ rn . We stJJ.J. haue to deal. with them on <:'1 proper· and s c:! n ~; ·j. b l. n . b <:'1 s :i. s 1·: h a'\'. j s ~ustainablE:1 in international J e!IAI b C'! C r:\1.1 ~; I;! IAH:1 d r• 0. d ()a l. J n 9 IAI 'i. 1.: h i ntc~n1a tiona1 - r·elations.

Th~~ Prc~mj etn s.ays that that j u s 1.~ 1. f 'i. e s t h e p o s l. l: :i. o n 1: h c,1 y t o o k of walking away from the table, bHcause, he said, hE! dnd h-Ls govE:H'nrnE!nt knew lAiho thE!Y were dealing with but the Government of Canada did not. I dj.sagrE!e with t:hal:. I arn qu .li::E! confidE!nt the'! Government of Canada knew whom l:hC:1Y wert~ dedJ..ing w.i.th. The fact that you recognized the attitude of F r· an c (:1 oi. n .i. t s .i. n t: ~~ r· n c:l 1'.: .ion a l. reJ.ations does not mE!an that you h a u E! t·. o a c t t r· r· c:t 1:. i. o n f.·\ 1 'l. y .

T h ~~ only aJ.ternatiue to walking away -Fr·o1n l::hc.=! ti:·lbl.E:1, dS th~~ Pr•etn"Ler· lnE:H:omrnE!nds, is some kind of !Alar· . So long c:IS l7 r·ancc:! ts ma .i.nl:c:\:i. n-i.ng L1620 May 6, 1988 Uol XL ·.i. l': h 1~1 :; c,~ x c 1.1.1 s i. IJ ~~ , .. i 9 h t s <'.1 n d C d n c:·\ d ct maintains i-t. has exclusive rights, i:hr,~ only RJ.tor·nc:~i::i.IJr~ l':o IAial.k:i.ng atAJay from thE! table is t..uar·. Thi.'l.t 1. ~> t r· r· i'\ t: .i o n ,~, .l , '.i. f n o l': J n s ct n o , M r· . Speaker. It is not the right c:-~ppr·oach.

That t~IE'J ough l: l':o s , .. _and firmly and protect our position, of COI.Il"SB, bill:: Wc:tl.ki. ng i:\1Aii:-1Y fr•om the tabJ.e is seldom the right r.~ppr·oc\ch, Hnd r do nol:'. t:h "i. nk .it. was the right approach when tho P r· ~~ uJ.i c-?. r· t o o k ·i. 1:. • NotAl, he:~ d~~c!\l.l:. lAiil: h anol:her I.SSLIE! t hat I want to d e a 1 tAI'.i t. h . H E! lAI e n t on to daal with theLr posil'.:ion wH:h rE!Spect to jurisdict:ion, and we woi.ll deal with 1-.:he pros and cons of the detail of that on anol'.:her occasion, but I want to deaJ. with it in generaJ. terms n OIA.I .

H 0 S i~\ y S 0 II t' p r· 0 b l f:! 1TI "i. ~> l.'.Je haUE! onJ.y seuen fE!dE!raJ. s~:!Cl.'\::s :i.n Lh:-i.s Pr·ovi.nce, <:·lnd tAihen il:. COITICc'S to quebE!C, 1.~.dth tts chunk of s e c:-~ 1:: s , r:-1 n d 0 n t·. a r· -L o IAJ i. l: h ··.-L i': s c h u n k of seats, and the two of them tog e t h n r· !Al-i. i: h (i 0 p c;! r c e n 1:: o F !:: he seats in t.l-w House· of Cornrnons, 1\JE:'IAifoundlc:HHJ dnd I. Hbi"c:·H~or· J.s insign-.ificant. He is right .

He .1. s c:rb sol u t: f~ l.y r· "L g h L . r h i"l t disparity has been the primary c: c:~u s P o F 1.: h (,1 f i'l i. lu r· (;! o F 'i': h .i s country as a fE!dE:1ral nat:l.on E!VE!I" s :i. n c c,~ l. t: wa ~; bo r· n ·i. n 1 8 6 '7 . E v C'! r· y single thing that has ever been don<:1, ('!V~:!r'y s"i.ngl.~::~ a.cl·· . .ion l'.:hat. has euer been taken to correct r~~g:i . onrll dlspar·it:.il':1S has Fc:~:i.J.(?.d miserably, one after the other, ADA, ArWA, DRfE, DRTE, i:l.nd anythtng E!lse that you can thJnk of. And now ACOA is 'in l:he process of sirni1ar faiJ.ure.

It is go.i.ng to happen, it .i.s on the lAiay, i t:s fatJ.ure !Alas annotHlCE!C:f i. n Mr·. Wil.~;on' s budg('!t. l:.h.i.s Spr··.ing . BE!Cause, Mr. SpE!akE!r, of thE! OV(H'IAihe.l.m-Lng voi:.'i.ng po!AH'!r' oF Quebec and Ontario, every t hing i: h. :~ t :i. ~; r,~ v C'! r· d o n E! F o r 1: h -i_ s No. 31 Rl620

Province ~s within twelve to eighteen months applied \J n i. v e r· s a 11y a c r· o s s l:.I·H~ c o u n l:. r y , s o it can no longer correct dispar·:it.ies. Not only that, but it tends to aggrevate them bE!CCl.USE! ".it giVC-?.S thOSE! pr·ovil'lCC,1S, that. already have superior economic power, an additional help which they do not need. No\AJ, . that. J.s \Alhc"lt has happenE1d, and that ""i.s IAJhi:lt: i.s IAJrong, and th~~ sa me t.h:i ng w:n 1 apply to thE! foi.si·H~ry. So ~.:h~~ Pr·li:mr"Lc:n· ts r'i.ght: i n t h a t . W h a t h e i s lA II" o n g :i n , M I" • Sp~~i:lkc:,r·, :i.s hts solution.

H · i . ~; !: o 1 u t: j on w:i 11 n e v e r p r· o v j d E:1 a :; o 1. u t ".i. o n , b r,1 c a 1.1 s 1,1 IAJ h i.·l ·1·: h r,1 IAHHl t s i. s rnoJ"e poiAJer· for the Province. MR. WTNDSOR: T h c:d· :i s r· i g h t . MR. WEI..I..S: The hon. minister says Thrlt is not the solution. MR. WtNDSOf~ : Oh, is it? MR. WELLS: I r•ight:. I , Just listen now and you will hear, if you IAJill do ffili:' the courte,sy, I IAri.ll c-?.xplain why t.hclt solution is wrong. It is the wrong solutton to i. 1: ..

W h E~ n we i. n c r ~'' d s e tl"w p o IA.J c;, r· o F 1:: I·H~ Pl"ovince, IAJe also :increase the pot.&Jer of thc:1 provinCE:1S of QtH:1l:H:ll: 01nd Ontr.~rio. That is the fundamental fclilure of Meech L r.1kE:1. Thr.li:. is j t-s fundamE,ntcll fr:dJ.ur·e. SOME HON. MF!\1B E R_§ : HHi:ll", hii:1al"! MR. Wrl.L~): An cl IAJB IAri. J. 1. posi.t:ion whc:~l"e seats i:·lnd WE! ForE~VE!r bo i.n r.t JAJe w:ilJ. havf~ seven will be outvoted Ll621 May 6, 1988 Vol XL always by the overwhelming power of Ontario and Quebec, and as thE! · pr~OU:J.I'lCE~S gc-?.t lnOI"E! jJOIJJEH' those pro vi n c E! s wt 1 1 h a v e i t too .

What WE~ nec-?.d, Mr. SpE:1al<er, ts a limit on the power of Ontario and Queb(~c. a r·educi:Jon of .il:, and there is only onE! way to achievE:! it in a federal system and that is by a Triple E SE:1natE!. That is thE! iHl Sl.o~Jii:H'. Wha 1.: IAJe ne od is I·.: a rE!quire' the' approval of both thE! Housc-~ of Conunons and l·:hE=! Sr::trmt.E:! 1-.o - all exercJses of Federal l.e:1gJ~;l.di::i.tJc,~ dnd f"i.scdl. powc''r'. ThEHl, with a Tr·iple E SE1natE1, Ml".

Spc~akr='r, 1\J!·~I,Jfoundl.dnd i:'lnd E:!VEH'Y other small pi"OV:i.nce I~orill helVE:! 10 p (,H' c f:Hl 1-. o f 1:. h e v o h;, , lAd ll. h <.'~ 1.1 o a vote equal to Ontario and equal to Qu E:1 b!:1 c . SOME HON. MEMBERS: H c~ '" t' , h o cit r· ! MR. WELLS: That is how we g~t our rights, that is how we protect our future. Wr::1 iH'e all hc:161clc'!d for the same end and t~e difference is how iAJB can e f f 1:1 c 1: :i vel. y a chi e:w e it . That is how it should be done in a fede:1ral. systom. That. is hoiAI it JAJorks in Australta, a Br:itish par·l..i.mln~~nti:·li"IJ syst:c:1Hl. The M:intster of Health (Dr·.

ColJ.ins) th~~ othE:1r d<:ly IAJdS dc,1pr·E~cat.ing rny comments becauSE! I compared Jt I.o~.Jll:h t.hr::1 Uni.t.r::'d Sti:lt~:,s, btll: hE! failed to mention that I aJ.so c omprH' ed -.i. t lAd l: h Au s L r·i.'ll. ·i. d wh EH'E! i t. works very , v E! r y IAJE! 1.1. .

ThE! y r· u n a f P c:l o t' d 1. s 1J s t: n HI IAI h (;, r· (,1 C.;! i'1 c h stato has an equal vote in the ~3(,1cond Chi.'llnbc:1r, 1-.:h!'! ::;E~ndl-.o, and t. h a t i s t h e a n s IAH:! r· t o Nr~I~Jfo1.1ndldnd 1 s pr·obl.(:!nl, dnd 1:-.hat :is the answer· to thE:' pr·obl.E!Tn of o tJ r~ r·y o t: h 1=1 r· s rna 11. p r· o t; i. n c ('! i. n t:. his Nat-.i.on, becausE:1 onJ.y thE1n, IAihE!I'l 1-.:he Senclte has oqudl leg.i.slative pouJer w:i.th the House of Commons, and when each of l.:ho · small No. 31 R1621

prov'i.ncos h1:1v~1 c;!qU<'ll. t;ot.""i.ng po1~1or IAli t h thE:1 lar·ge pr·ovi n ce s in the S ~~ n i'\1:. (;! , on l. y 1:: h ('! n IAri.l.l. IAlt-:! b n db l c,1 to assure that we get our just deserts in this Federdtlon. As J ong as 1/J(-:! ma:i.ntain r:1 s-:i'l':uHt.ion whE!r'(,1 Lhr:1 1.1l.U.111dt.H r:-1nd r·r,H:otll.y onJ.y effective conl::rol is in a House of C 0 lflfn 0 1'1 S cl 0 Ill i. n d h ;! d b y 0 l'l t d r• i 0 r:Hl d Q tw b E:1 c , tAl~~ lAd 11 f o r· e v e r b e i n t h e posit:ton thHl:: IAH'! ;u·r~ tn now, r:-1nd ti'tr.tt is t:.h(~ fundamentaJ. fa:i.lt.tr'e of M(;!C:!Ch l .. ak(~.

And, LL: ts the failure to look at it, and examine ··i. n dE! t;:d .l U1E:1 f11 ndc\111(;! n tR l. principles of federalism, that d:ir'('!CI:: th~:! Pr~:!rn.l.E!r and ol':.h~:!r's tot.uard Meech Lake, becausE! of thE! false hope that the Province ls going to get more power and have HHH'e influence, but proportionately that much more goes to Ontctrlo and Quebec, and that is our basic problem now. I seE! t.h(,' Mird.ster of FinanCE! (Mr. W"i.ndsor) shab~ h'i.s h~~dd. HE! obvoiousJ.y does not. undersl::and the Funda111entr.11 pr"i.ncJpJ.(,1.

I hr,1 d:i.d he IAJould c~ndorSE:1 fuJ.ly IJJhat I say, r!l n d a n y b o d y IAJ h o l. o o k ~; d 1.: l.: h t:1 fundaruentaJ pr·ind p1 es of f ~~ rl ('! r• ;,1 J. J. S In IAl..i l. J. S (~ (:1 i'.: h d '\'. , b f~ C d I. I S e t hrrt i. s t h~l only place ·wl·1er' E:1 we ;:~ r· (:1 ('! l) 0 r· g () .i. n g 1:. () 9 E! t: c'l F i.·1 ·:i. r· ~; d y . Th~l Pl"tHir.i~?.ln :is right IAih~Hl hE:' says o 1 1 r p r· o b J. r,1 rn i. s :; c:1tJ r.~ n s (:1 a t s , "' n d t.hEd. Js our basis pr'oblE:lrn.

Co1nparE:1 thr.·1l·: IAJ'.i.th n-LnE:li:y -five "i.n OntaJ":io or seVE:lnty-·fiVE! in QuebE:1C and lAH~ i:·lrC:1 OVEH'IAlheJ.rn~~d OV~H'Y t).HIE:1, but we shouJ.d go to the right anSIAlE!r', not: rTJOI"C:1 poiAlHr' for us because it. is proportionately more power For Ontario and Quebec as tJJe11. The right answer is to limit l::he power to Ontario and QuebE!C, Now, Mr·. SpeakE:1r, to gE!t back t:o dE:1a J. i ng IAJ:i t:h l:h~!! S E!! :L S S lH~S i::ha t f:H'E! bc~for'e . us today, the onJ.y diFFerences between us 'i.s as to L1622 May 6, 1988 Uo1 XL the approach.

We are all clear on t.uherE! t.ue ought to go and on what . ought l~ o br,1 t.h0. ~~nd. I h·'liHl 1·1<:-~d a look <:li:. t:he dr'i:,lfl:: JnE:l!;oluti.on, just. a quick glancE! clt i.l.:, c'll'ld .I JIIUSi-. Sdy i.l:. dppE~c'lr'S l:.O bE:l in orde1n. I arn going to look i'l I~ i. l: 'i. 1'1 d r~ i:. i:l i. 1. 1'1 OIAl lA I h f! 1'1 l ·F oi. 1'1 .i S h speaking. But, generaJ.ly s p C:1 i.'l k 'i. n g , -L t: r~l p p e ;:,1 r' s L o b E! acceptable and in order. Mr.

SpE!aker, what we arE! asking Js t h d t: C i\1 1'1 r:l d d l.l ~; E! t: h e f U l.J. f 0 r' C ('. 0 f its diplomatic and . economic r ~11. a t i o n s lAd t: h F r· i:Hl c E:1 . A n d l:: !) b e fair to thts goVE!rnrnE!nt:, they hcwe ~aken that. position from the beginning in this di sputP, and tt :L s c o rn p l. E~ t ~>. 1. y c o n s :i. s t ~1 n 1:. I All. i: h t h e position they haVE! taken frorn LhE! beginning. Fxcc:q:>t, Mr·. Speakl:!r', they have not 'thE!ITISE!J.VE!S bE!E!n .consistent.

Questions have been asked hE!rE! in this HouSE! of Assembly ·i.n thr.~ l.dst. f (:'IAl IAI!iH!kS about Lhe d(~alings the goVE!rnrn~Hlt. i.tselF h;;1s had IAl'll:h i'l JJI<'l]or· Fi"C:1nch company, with the Department of f)r,1tJr~l.OpiiJPI'l't RIIAlcH'd:i.ng 'i.l':. i:·l lflr::t_jor• contract. SOME HON. MEMBERS : H (~ d t' , h ~1 a r· ! MR. WFLJ .. S : TherE! is another pl"oposal that. 1': h "i. s g o t; e I" n m ~~ n t i:-1 p p ~~ a r' ~=! d l~ o approve, and there have been :i. n d :i. c a t :i. o n s -L n t: hE! l. ,:,, s 1:: c o u pl.

E! o F days that another major ar·r·ang~~~n~lnt: :'i.s go.inq l:o bE'! rniilciE!, and t.ha ·l:. is udt.h CHC HelJcopt:E!I~s, because .t hat is dependenl:: upon the conclusion of an agreement. with Aerospatial, a French major helicoptE!r produCE!r. If tl'w govc,1r'nJnc,1nt. J.s go :i.ng to be consistent it must aJ.so put Jts OIAll'l morwy wl'lE!r(~ i.l:.s mouth :is, :i.t. must take the same action. No. 31 R1622

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear·, hear·! MR. WELLS : llllh<:!n i.t. ask~:!d 1:-.l'w gov~H'nrnent of Canada not. to deal lAJith France in terms of purchas.i.ng th<::~ A-lr·bus for Air· Canada, or not dE!al with France,~ ln t.<,H'ms of purchas"Lng nuclear submarines until this matter' is fair·l.y and pr·operly r' e s o 1 v e d , i t may bE! that t hat i s- a r· e d s <Hl c\ b l. ~~ cHl d p r' o FHH' a p p r o a c h . But lAJh en :it doE! s that, it.: must also foll.OIAJ 'i::hcO!

Sdlne l."i.no Jtself;otherwise it is being hypocr·i.t::i.cc:~l and IHH t;Jould hdtJ~:! to und<::~rstC!nd thc:~ govr::H'nrnNlt of Ct.'lndd!:-1 l:oL<·1lly :i.gnor·'i.n•::~ 1-:ho request of the government. W <:! f~\ r' <"! g o :i. n g 1·: o b e 1.: i.'l k i. n g (:1 l o o k cd: ~: u g g c-:1 s t :J n g a c o u p 1 \':! of ·. c h a n g e s -i.n the'! r·esol.1 .1i':.-:i.on, b11t 1~10. w·Lll d :i. ~;cuss tl·1a'l: IAJ:l.th the comrnitt<::~E! 111hen i-:.hE!Y 111not· .. Mr . Sp~~r.~k~)r, T <Hld i:'tlJ. of th~~ l'llEHnber·s :in Lhis caucus · will support generally this resolution as agreed.

But I v.Jould ask the gover·nme:~nt itself to rnCJkE:~ SlJY'e that it follows the procedu~e that it is asking the · government of Canada to follow in terrns of its own economic relation with companies doing business out of F r' iHl c ~) . T h a t i. s 1 i. k r~ 1 y t o a d d t o the impact and they ought to do it. Mr. Speaker, the other' 1;h:lng that T tJJoul.cl say I:H:~for'E! I s i. t. dotAJn :i. s whatever we do in response to this s'ltu;:-~l::i.on, tH-:'!C<:~USH ·i.t -Ls Focusr,)d -.in St.

P:ic,H'r·~~, becaus~~ that :is the Focus of --Lt r:-~t. t:hr-~ rnornr,Hli::, t~J(,~ nol': los(-?. s-.i ghL of Lhr:~ t.rad:it:ional Friendly raldtlons and jnter·c-.-~ctjons -thaL have-) existed between 1-:he peopln of th.is Pr·ou'.i neE:! and of ~)t. P:ierr·e, even 'i.f a good port"i.on of "i.t :i.s dealing in -j 11-.-i c-.it liquor, thr.lt:. we not Ll623 Mc:·lY 6, 19138 Vol. XL lose sight of the close family ties, since there has been a great deal. of intermarriage between the people of the South Coast of Newfoundland and Lhe people of St.

Pierre, that. we not lose sight of what we have had for CE!nturies. · It is irnport<:Ant that we act rationally and reasonably while, at the same time, firmly standing up for' and pr·ot :c-:1cl:ing thE! rights of the peoplE! of Uroi.s Pro~tnce,. particularly our fishermen. But it is important 1: h d (·: I;J E~ r' E! C 0 g n ·.-i_ /. (,~ IAJ h ~:! r' 0 t h (,~ I" 0 a J opponent is, and the rN:ll opponEHlt :i. n I~ h i s c i)l s c~ :i. s t n P d r' i..s , no t: J. n St. Pierl"e. SOME HON. MEMBERS: II f~ i:H' I h E! r:~ r ! MR. WELLS: ·n., i'\ n !< y () u' I Mr· 0 ~) p ~:! i:\ k E:! r' 0 fi[L___I> P f (l I< F.

R ( P <"~ r son_~~~ : The hon. the Minister of Fisheries . SOME HON. MEMBERS: H~~.:-1r, hc;!ar! MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speake!r, first of a] 1, lEd: rrl(! say th;::~t i.t ts not: !Arith any gr'E:!at degreE! of pride that any of us or th'i.s Leg"i.sla'cur·e::~ i.s tak i.ng par' I-:. in this particular debatE! today. We are not ashdmed to be doing it, M r . S p e a k e r , b u t ·.i t -.i. s n o t ~Ar.i l.: h r.·\ 1'l ':J p Y' "i_ d 0 t. h i.·l t. l;J ~~ h {.·\

I) C::~ +.: 0 d 0 i. 1·: . 1\JOIAJ, t J·i.si~C:'I'lC'!d V~i! r'y Ci.·lJ"~'!f'uJ.Jy to t:.h!O! remarks of the hon . thE~ LE:'adE!r of i:ho Oppos :i.t--Lon, iHH~, Mr'. Spr::~al<er·, I elm not go-:ing l:.o takE! l:hr,~ ffi!I~J rrr.i.nl.ll -. f~S tht:'ll: [ hr:ltJe to gE!t i. n to a 1 on g , p o 1 it i c a 1 IJJ I" a n g J. E! or df~l:),:\t · r,~ t~d.l:h l:h<,' hon. g~~nl :. l.ernan. A number of his comments could nr:·ls'i.l.y l.r;!dd t-.o l::ha·i ... , but. ther'(~ is one point. I lAJHnt t:.o rnr.lke J.n No. 3 J. ln6?.3

relation to the han. gentleman 1 s comments. Mr. Sp<,1RI«;!r', i.t: i.s s:i mply this: To take thE! r·ight posi.ti.on, th<,~ co1hroct: pos·.i.t:"i.on, the onJ.y d ef ens ibh1, NE!IJJf ou ndJ.and p 0 s i 1: "i. 0 n ' t.: h i.•1 L IAH:1 c r'1 n n 0 t: ;:~ f f 0 r· d L 0 s 1·1 i:tl" ~1 s to c k s that a r ~1 non--sur p 1 u s 1::0 0 llr' OIAJrl rl ~;! (~ d ~; d 1'1 d 1:: 0 () 1.1 Y' ()I!Jr) ce~padty and to OUI" OI~JI'l E:1conorn:i.c t) 'i. ,;, b ·i. l. i. I: y , ·oi. s i:1 s o 1 1 n d 1. y elf:! f (:11'1 ~; J. b J. ~~ pos:it.:ion. It Js an ern:inerl'l:ly sonsi.ble N~~uJfoundl.~.u1d posJ t: 'i.on . Rut., Mr·.

Sp~~aker·, to t.ak~~ ·U1at .:1 p p r· o r.1 c h 'i. n d c! a l 'i. n g IAJ"i. 1.: h o t: h e r· Ci:lnad:i.c-H1 pr·ov:inct,1s, which :is r·ight '" n d p r· o fHH' iH1 ~~)(;! s 1.1 p p o r· 1:. -i. l: '" n d :i. t. hi:ls been the foundation of our F:i.sheries pol:i.cles s .ince eons in time and we are solidly behind it, can you thE!rl say out: of i':h(':1 othE:1r side of your cheEd<, in thE! samE! c](~bah-:>, l::hat IAJe 1~J:i.ll. not and should not and rnust not and cannot share IAri. th otht·H' Canad .lans, bul: 1.\Je can sorn~1how find a lim:itE!d supply f r· om t h e s a rn o s o u r· c t;! t o s h iit r· e IAI'i t·: h foreigners!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE:~ar, hE:~ar! MR. RIDEOUT : Mr. Sp~~akE:1r, l·:hi'·1t 'i!> not pul:i.::i.ng IJJor·ds :i.n the han. gc,1ntleman 1 s HIO 1.1 l: h . J l 'J. :; 1'1 0 l: q 1.10 t·. -i. 1'1 g h J. ITI j n 1:1 c c u r a t e 1 y . I d o not l.t.li::l n t. r.l n d d

I) n () l.: J 11 1: (:1 n d 1:: () r 1.1 r' t: h ('! r· g f:1 t i. n t: 0 a pol:lt:ical hetsslE:1 on l:h:i.s most ·i.Hipor·i:.r'\1'1'1:. HIOi.:.i.on, bt.l"l". T. cannot l<'!t.: thcd: . go unnot:i CE:H~, Mr. SpeakE:H'. rho hon. gon l.:l.<,111k\11 hds Sdid, dnd !;aid aga:in today, 1 :it may b<:1 a Sllldl.J. pr':i.CE! l".:O pr.·1Y to USE'! SOlliE! Jirn:ited amount.' He has said it outs -i.dE! tho House, hE:~ has sa.i.d .l.t. 'in the House, and it was said i~gi:"in today, r:~nd at the'! sarn<'! t'irno take the correct. position that we cannot usc,1 r.:tny amount. to shiH'C,1 wi t:.h other Canadians.

Now, you cannot square that, Mr. Speaker. You cannot. say give it to the foreigners and not give it to L1624 May 6, 1988 VoJ. XL. Canadians. That is only a par·t of IAihr:d.: th-i.s dE:!bat.E:1 :i.s all. r~boui:, but . I think it is a vital part. It trll.l s 1:: b o co r-r- t~ c l':l. y C\ n d u n nr:i. s t. a k t·\ b 1. y and clearly understood that when SOIII(~I::h.i.ng i.s non .. -sur·pl.us i. t. is non-surplus for all. SOME HON. MEMBERS: H r,1 .:~ r' , h o '" r· ! MR. RIOF.:OUT: But. for the sdkE1 of al1 t.:hdL ·.i!> good .:~nd holy r:·1nd r·'i.ghl:, 'i.t hds got Lo bE:1 non-·-surplus for' a For·p'i.gner.

No such t:h:i.ngs as lJmi ted amounts or smal:l arnoun t.:s or· l."i. ·l:. l:l.E:1 p-.i.E~C(;!S, it: "i.s just: nol:. there. It is the foot in the cl o o r , M r· . S p <.;! a I< E! r· , a n d :i. t. :i s t h at foot in the door that has causE•d us this difficulty since 1972. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. RIDEOUT: It is that foot in t:he door· that h<.·\S cr;1used 1~s our- d ·Lff·oi.cul.l:.:les s :ince 1713, 1853, 1905, w:it:h tho l .ondon ContJ(:!nl"". ·i.on, ,:;tnd l::hc;•n dastardly IAIY'appE!d up :in thE:! 19'72 T r c~ r.~ "l: y .

T h H t J s {: h f.~ 'F o o !-. 'l n t: 1·1 E! door Lha t has N<;!IAJf ou ndJ.a nd a net l . r:-~br'o:Hior· I~JhC,H'f~ 1)18 <H'f~ l~od.:>ty. That has to be cJ.early understood. Now, Mr. Speaker, what happenod y ~~ ~; 1:'. H r· d d y "i. s 1.1n For' q i tJ ;:~ b l. (! . T l:'. J. ~~ provocative to the Nth degree. Th~1r'C! C<'ll'll'lO 'l~ br:! r:·\.

NebJF'OI.II'ldl.and<;!r Ol" Labr·adorJ.an I4Ja1king on LhE! shol"~~s of r.1 ·.'i.ng 1 s B"i.qht t:oclay IAJho :is not ashaiTIE!d and dJsgusb.;!d and Frustr~ted with whdt took place yestE!rday, and not by any provocative action of this Province, not by any provocative act. :i. on of t hi. s co 1.1 n t: r· y b c,~ c au s ~=! IAIE! have hist.oricaJ.ly for dE!Cades and dc-?.cr.ldc~s upon top of decadc'!S haVE! fished shouldE!r by shouldE!Y', chE!E!I< by ch(;!(:!k, t~nd I!JhaLE!V('!r ot:hE~r· par·Ls No. 31 R 16 2 lJ. t - I-

of Uw anc:·ltowy you t.o~Jc:Hlt to b:'ll.k about, 'in t: h<~! IAJaters between St . PiE!r'J"r~ dnd M i.quelon dnd Lh<~~ Bur·:J.n PE~ntnsuJc\, jigger· by jigger. It has bE!~~n h · i.stor·i.cr:~ll.y LhE~ case,, that in small vessels we haVE! not bothered ea c h other. There are diplomatic notes governing the fact that we do not bother each other· into thE! disputE!d zonE! for s rna 11 v c,~ sse l s . That 1. ~; a fact . That has bee!n in for·ce for YE!ai"S.

Bul~ .i.t has b~'!(.;!l'l hist.or·ically a fact, that in small inshore f·."i.shing vessels, vessE~l.s less Lhan sixty-five feet is the category we cu· ~: ! talk i.ng ;:~bout, IAJE! h ... w e buirlflE!d into E:1ach other·, fished I1E:1Xt. to ~ :!ach oth~: !r, hdttl.od 11pon +:ht-~ rock~; on c,1ach other·' s coast IArithout bot.hE~r·i . ng E:!dCh ot.h~'!l". Thi:~+:. :i.s -1-:hf~ f u n d r:un e n t a J eLi f f e r e n c e t h a t h i'.l s 1: ;:~ k E! n p l t.·l c e i n i: h ::i. !> p <:'! r· 1··. :1. c 1.1 l ''' r· pl" ovocati~J~1 ~~ct.Jon oVE1r thE:1 last I·.:IMrcHll:. y ·· f 011 t' ho1.1 r· :; .

Thi.·ll·~ hd s r•1l'l c hdng<;;d 1'101,1 I rJtr•' Speaker. There i s a new s et of :i. n tor· na t i. on t.·11. r 11 J. n s ri 01~1 t h a 1: non o of us al"C~ pr·q>ar·c-:rd to live by any mor·c,~, IAJe r:H'C:! no l.: pr·f;!p c:u•od 1-:o iHcept. t.he fact that for de!cades th i.!; has happenc~ d, V.Je iH'f'! go-Lng 1-:o change i t. Who made that d c~ c is i. on , M r· . Speaker? F r· an c E~ has made that decision.

Some of thE.~ medla I ht.~ve talked t.o over the last twenty-four hours t r ·i c.;! d t o z E:~ r· o t n o n t h ~?. a r· r· <~~ s t of thE:1 FrE!nch VE!Ssel in Canadian wab:!rS just a F~:!IAJ IAJfH:!I<S Rgo. Mr. Speakc:,~r, .it. is J.ike day and n .ighi: : . T.i:: ·i.s i:: hE:~ di.ffc.;! r'C:!I'lC E:~ b e tl.u e ~~ n d a y a n d n i g h t. .

T h o s e p E! o p 1. ~1 , a g ;:~ .i. n , p r· o lJ o c i:l 1: i. cJ o 1. y p 1.1 1·: on thE:~:il" sashE!S, rhd Jb~H·ately put on Lhc'!.i.r· s.:·1sh~?.S, 'l:. ook i:ht-'! rnr-: !c:l " i.~ IAJ:i t h t h ern a n d s c:d. d IAH~ a r· ~?. g o :i. n g l o f r· c'1 g r· .:·111 L l. y ,,1 b u s n y o 11 r· s o cJ n r· 0. :i. g n t y , iH'E~ you go ::ing to iH'r'~?.st U!>? P l. (~ d s c·?. d r· r· o s l: u s . A n d 1~1 f?. d :.i. d . ~,J ,,, d:-i d IAlh<:~t. IAJi'.lS l":i ght. CiHli'Ada dtd U6.:>.5 Mc~'j 6 1 19 B 8 Vol. XL T h :i. s i. n c .i. d fo' n t... t s s o d 'i. f f f'! r f'! n 1- !

This is a Newfoundland fisherman f r· om F o r L 1 1 rw B i.·1 y , o r· w I'Ho! r· c;! v C'! r· l'lCo! is from, doing what IAJ e haVE! for· d~~cad e s done~ .. i.n l~he wat.E!rs b<;!t.IAJO ~?. n St. Pierre and Miquelon. Do i ng no 1:: h :i n g d .i. f f c,~ r ~=! n t , M r· . S p e a k (~ r , not being provocati.VE! in any way, Mr. SpE~<:l kor, but do :ing IAJhat I).Je 61nd they have done I1E!Xt · door to ea c h othe,r· for· d~: !cadc'!S. So t:ha I ~ has changed now. Now, t h:i. s tl'ds stncc'! going Mr·. SpeakE !r', it J.s Ll.rnE! for· c ou nt-.r·y ...

IAJO l'li.'1 lJ(c1 b ee n s a y :i. nq consistE!ntly as a goVE!rnrn E! nl. 1-:h:i.s !AJholr:! btls"i.n - ~ : !SS st.ar·t<:!d, back notAl over· the la s t s f~

c) o r· d J. 111 o n -L h ~; r:~ n d i. n 1:. o o u f;! r· i:il y e a r t . o s t a r· l d r:' a 1 :i n g IAr.i L h L h E• ndl ::i.on of Fr ' ,)l nc' ~ .i. n I:: I'H'! on l y language that the French lll'ldl'!r· ~; i:r:·Hld. ()nd l.l'l.:-11: : i.s noLa IAJdJ'·· cr·y, Mr·. SpE~cli<E!l". ThE:~ hon. Lc':!cH~HI" or l:hr,~ Oppos ·i. l·.i on i ·. mOik ~ ; about . going to v.Ji'H'. That is no t a wa J" c r· y . T h r-1 1:. i s g e ~~ 1.: t n 9 i. n t. o u c h with Lhe reality of tho 'i.r·r'iil LJonal.:i. t:y l:hc:·1 t t:l·w ho n. gentleman was talking about. SOME HON .. MEMBERS : Hear·, hear! MR.

RIDEOUT : Th :i.s pr'lrl~ . .icul.ar · ni3.t:ion has cho s 1'-'!1'1 deliberately and consciously to be irTat.ion~l, but, 1~.hat does n o t. dE!rnand that '"'e r'E!spond t.:o irrationali.ty wlLh irrationality. But i.t: CE!rtainly dE!ITlands, Ml". s p f ~ d k ~~ Y' I · i~ h o"( t l: h t ;! 1. ( I d d ('! j" S () f t h :i. S country have to bE! d e tE!rrninE!d t o dor:1l, ;:-1s ~~~r~ h <.·llJf'! ci.-\J.l.~:!d on · Lhum over the last several months to d f?. 1'11. ' IAJ i. I". h F r· r'1 n c (~ -L n 1·.: h (;• 0 n l. '1 language they understand .

And t .hat 1dngll<. ·1gu. other· way, No. 31 Js f<>r'ceful, f' h f~ J7 I'' (:;! 1'1 C h rJlr. SpeakE!!". 0.~ co nom :i c k l'lOIAJ 1'10 ThE1Y hc1V~?.

not been doing it. it is not becau&e we have not been demanding that they bE! doing it. that is the only l.anguagc,1 tht:·\l t:hLs counl:r·y i.s going Lo understand. We have to rnal<c i. t l·.:ough ~HlOugh. ltll~1 I·Hw~:! l:.o n1Cll< E~ J t so tough. that they 1.1.Ji 11 d r o p L h c :i. r· r· ,:~ t -i. o n 1.'11. J L y . Talking about wa1king away from I: he:! l.·.r:~blc~ I r·'lr'' Spc~.:~ker· I I~JhO hi't!> 1o~.ial kod away from the ti)lble tw:i.ce i. n l .. hr~ l.ds l: I:.I~H·'!l,.Jr,1 rnon1:hs. I,,Jho Cetnetdi'.l? No, Ml". Spc,1ab~1".

Fr·ance hi'\ S r:l f;! l. l. b r;! r• ,:•\ J:: I'! 1. y IJ.Jr:\ J. k f~ d r:'\I.Ald lj f t' ()HI nE~go Lj a I:. :ions t.1o~.d ce 1o~.d thin the~ last.: [·: I~J 0 1. V r~ In 0 n 1: h S . Y 0 II tal. !< c:\ b 0 U \'. lo~.Jc~J ldng cllo~.lay fr·om the::~ tab1E!! So. thdi:·. 'i.S IAJhc:\l IAJO hi:'\V(;! to do. ~~(~, ·this goverrmiEHJ 'l, Mr. Spc::~aker, ar'E! n o t. a b o u t t.: o d c,~ c J. iH' e d '~JCH' o n ~:) l.: . Pierr·co! and Miquelon. We undcoH'stand and r·~~spE!Ci: and r'EH'lliZE! that they have a right to exist.

Thc::~y hc:\VE! a r·ighl~, htsl:.or·.ical.l.y, to whatever fish they have been hisLor·ical.J.y fishing, so1ne 5,600 to 6,000 tons a year, it has been, not t.he 50,000 that: they ar(~ demanding. They have a right to expect that and we hdve an ob1igaU.on and a duty to provide i.t, and Wf~ suppor·l: t.hdl::. £3111: IJ.JG cannot forget, Mr. Speaker, that j1.1st r'\S t.he f·t~;hc,H'IIli.-\1'1 of Newfoundland ctnd Labrador are pc\IJ.Jn s ·i. n L hi. ~; :i. n t C:! r· na l: ·i. CHI i'\ J. s :it: u 1'.1 t i o n • 5 o a r· c., t h <-" r <->. s :i. d e n t 5 of ~)l:. P:i.:HT0. c:HJd MJ.q1Jr,1l.on.

Wo havE~ b::i.J at EH'i'.t J a r r·a ng erne nt s wi.th ~)i.:. Pi.~n·r·c,' i'II'H:I M:i.qLJ8lon l·.:hdl.: i'.tr·e t:o thE'!:i I" i:tdvantage. Wt:~ have educAl.:ional b·i.1cttBrRl. iHT an g <,HII e n t s , lo~.H~ 1·1 a v "'~ f o r· e s t:. f i r· E! p r· o t:·. ~=! c l L o n , •::t ·i I" ... ,,, rn b 1.11 d n c l'! . T t l.o~J d s only a feiAJ dclys ago thi'.lt some of t.he'i.r residents appl.'i.ed For the r·e- .. Jssu:ing of Lhc,~ir 1ob5tE!r puyers l.'i.cE~ncc;!s t.hal:. i::ht:!y hr:·\VE~ i.n this Pr·ovince. WE!l1, I can tE!1l you, Mr·. Speak<:!r', l~hat c\S of today the Minister of Development (Mr.

L1626 May 6, 19 H 8 · Vol XI .. BarrE!tt) is also revie!wing thE! other agreement that was tal.ked about today there is nothing sc.'lcr·E:!d bc->.tween us and Sl::. P·hHTE' and Miquelon and France. SOME HON. MEMBERS: lh~dl", hc~<:H'! MR. RIDEOUT: ~,J r,~ r::t r· c,~ no t 1~1 i::t r· 'no n q E! r· s , M r· .

Spf:H:lker. we ar·e just or·diniH'Y foJ.k l.o~Jho llk\nl: Lo pr·otco!Cl: 011r· r·i.ghts, pr·otec'l:. our· hE!rit.ag<,~. so that oul" fH~ o p 1 <~ , 1:. o o , ,~J:i. t h o 11 1.: t r· r.Hil p l ·i. n g o n the rights of the people of St. p :i. n r· t' (! r:l n d M :i q 1.1 (~ 1 () n I c d n l i ~~ E! 1.1.Ji th a b'.i t of dignity and haVE! a r• :i. g h t t: o HI f.'l k c,~ r'l l. i v:i. 1'1 g . T h a t. i. s IJ.Jhat this is all. about.

If B r• ·i. 1:. c\'i. 1'1 IAH,H' (o~ EW EH' l 0 C 0 Ill("! b a C I< t. 0 Canada today demand'.ing the c o 1. o n '.'i. a 1 r· J g h t s l:: h a t F r· a n c (:! i s demanding in waters adjacent.: lo this country, we woul.d be w'.iped off the map, Mr. Speaker. It is totally unrealistic. You can gE:!t. into all kind!" of l<'!qal arguments about internaU onal J.aw, you C<:\11 g<o1t i.nto c'\1.1 l:.hdt, but I do not care, Mr. .

SpE!aker·, s OHIC.;lt.l..lh E:! r• E:! t h P r• ~:! h 1:-\ S ·9 0 L 1·: 0 be something in inte~national 1.1 n d o r s l· .• :111 rl :i. 11 g c a ll f'! d j 1.1 s t :l. c E~ t h d l~ says that we cannot allow these goings on Lo be perperlrALed on our p<,'ople. It has gone on Jong r.:!l'lOtlgh. (1: hr:·\~> gonr:! on l:uo J.ong. And the Gover·nmE~nt oF CtUJadcl h1:1s 9 o t: l: o c 1 f~ d r· l. y 11 n d I"! r· s t·: , .. , n d L h a t IJJhat:l~VE:!r' l:.hE!

January 24 agr·E~E!I'nE:!nl:.s I~Jer·r,~. l.o~JhHl·. r.:!V(!I" rnedoi.r:\t:.'.'i.on ... ,, ccor ·ds l:I1E:H'e IAJE!l"C::~. that '.it. is a11 Foolishness J.n dealing wil.:h France, because they have no :i. n t e n t. t o n , 1: h E:' y d o n o 1: un cl c->. r· s 1:. a n d anything only the tough, tr'lkE!·-·you .. -by .. thf:!-nE:!Ck appr·oach. That has been their approach in international poltttcs for cent:uriE!S. It has not . changNI for No. ] 1 1~:1.626

centuries and it has not changed ,-in 1988. Mr. Speakr:1r, thii; :Ls a very serious piece of business. I'l: behooves all of us as members, as legislators here in Newfoundland and Labrador, to s pe,a k ud th qne mind, not with any squigglywiggly approaches, in conde rn rd. n g this t reach E! r o us action, this provoc:at.ivr:1 action that was taken against onE! of our native sons yesterday in waters that he ought to have a d .ght to fish in as long as l:.he grass grows and the water flows. SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the mr:1mber for St. John 1 s East . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE:1ar!

MR . LONG: Mr. Speaker, l.o~.Je welcome the opportunity to parl: .icipate in l~he debate and give our full support to the .interim resolution which calls for a debate on condennning the actions by France yesterday, and .aJ.so look fonuard to the adoption of a more detailed resolution as we move closer to the adjournment.. It is int<~resting to sit and observe the development of the political dynamics within a very short period of time, less than twenty-fc11~r hours, I glH.;!S S , IAJe haVE! seen the action taken by the French Navy.

I observed on sorne of the news J.ast night that it was the Front story, t.he h1ad ib,~rn on The National across the country las 1: eVE!ning and l:h ~Hl . again this mor·ning, and then to comE! into the House th:i.s mor·n:ing and ~;IJSPE!I"ld the Orders of the Day to have an emergency debRte, obviously L.1.627 May 6,· 1988 Vol XL. reflects the seriousness of the matter, and also reflects Lhe . commitment, L>Jhich espE!Cially of the people of this Province, to such a provocation by the Government of France~~ . I IAIOIJld say, Mr.

SpeakE!r, that I think :i.t is very critical for all sides within this Province, members of po1:itical partir~s, and for all sides across the country that WE! be conscious of m:in:irniz:lng somE! or= the poJ.iticalization that surrounds this iss1Je. Both the Leader of thE! OpposiU .on and th<:!

PremiE!r hav~~ acknot.o~.JlE!dged this morning that the action taken yesterday by the government of France · is essentially of a political natur·e, J.inl<~:!d to domestic politics in France with the national el.ect"i.on on t.:h«::H't::1 as are other actions that we have SE!E:!n :i.n the l~1st coup1~:! oF day s·­ the release of the prisoner in the South Pr.lcif ·Jr: dnd l:hc'! r·eJc ,)asE:! of the hostages by the French Government, and obvious l y the action taken by the French Navy IAJdS anothr:~r· "ini.l: ·oi. al-:."ive lAJhich lAJas not unrelated to thE! natJoni:d domest:Lc political scene in Fran ce.

NotAl, Mr, Speak<::~r, I think LIJE! IA.JOUld all do well to be conscious of hot.u actions relating to the fishery, which is so critical to th:l .s Province, can be affected in a negative way once poliU.cs is brought "into it. I havE~ a SE!nse this morn:l.ng that Uw PrE!ITd.E!r rnay see an opportunity her e to make equal poJ.iticaJ. rE!sponSE!, to rE!spond in t.andEHn, qu:i.d pro quo, that when we have what is essentially a polit-ical statement being made by the Government of Fr·anC<.;! , that thE! goV E! rnrnent of this Province wiJ.J. Y'E!Spond in :i.ts OIAII1 pol.iU.cc:tJ. fashion.

I l.o~.Jould advise the Premier and the govc,~rnmE:~nt l.:o nol:: s:irnply r·un EIIAJay No. 31 Rl627

with this issue in a political fashion. I wondE!r whether we might not see, as the sun becomr:1s a more prominen~ feature of the landscape, the Premi.e:1r· might feel in his loins, thE! way he is proudly and confidently speaking this morning, that this is an issue tJJe should take to t:he peop1E:1. I do not know that.

Of course, .il: "'i.s up to lhe Premir:1r to decide what to do with this ~ssue, but I tJJould cau 1-.::i.on r.~ll s·idE!S against politicizing this issue in a IAJay that rnJ.ght no ·t. dllot~J for a clear resolution of what is obv.iousl.y i:l mor·e fundatmHJtal isstH~ for the people of the Province than onE! lhat should bt~ dll.OIAJE!d Lo be caught up in politics.

I thi.nk we aJ.l rE!Cognize the federal government 1 s representat:i.VE!, the Ministe!r of External Aff;:drs, Joe Clark, .-this morning acknowledged, as did ~:~11 speakers this morning, that this seems to be essentially a political act, and it · is not exactly cJ.ear how to formulate a proper response to an action · that is motivated for ulterior reasons.

I tJ.Jould say, Mr. · Speaker, in thE! issue of linkage that has been raised here, which I think will comE! back before us i.n the ftnal. resolution, that the Government of Canada bC:1 called upon to usr:1 all diplomatic and economic power to re!solve:1 this s :iluat;lon and to rc:1spond to the crisis that France has provok~~d, U1e:1r'~~ .is a dangE!r, l would submit, Mr. Speaker·, in :insist-l .ng imrnedi.i:\L(:1ly on a ln1':1i:\SlH'f:1 of linkage to other levers the GovC:H'nmont of Candda rni.ght hf.lve, especially in economic terms. I th:ink there is no doubt, since this House is a provincia].

Legi.slat.ure, it would mal<(:~ a lot of sense to call upon the Government of Canada to exercise L1628 May 6, 1988 Vol XL its full diplomatic force to respond to this situation. I . would hope that the Premier of the Province and the provincial government have been able to sustain a working relationship t.~.r:ith our fedr:1ral represl'.~ntativf~ :.i.n thE! C ah in E! t , M r . C r o s b i E! , ova r tJJhat has be~Hl a vc~ry diffictdt tirne on this :i.sSUE! in thE! J.ast year, tJJhE!n !AJE! hdvc,1 Sf:!en the Premier and the person in the fc,~de::1ral.

Cabi .. nc::1t car·r·y'ing l:.ho ball for NetJJfoundland on this issUE! at: loggE,rhoads r:tnd cai"rying on qu'.i I".E! incredible displays of animosity a n d h o s l': J l. i 1: y , d i. s a g r· E! El rn f:' n t a n d i:-1 n inabiJ.ity to come~! t.ogEd:hE!r on tAJhclt ls a uery critical issue.

I would hopE! that at this point, in light: of the actions taken yesterday, that the Prernier and the gover·nrnr:1nt are ablc,1 to develop a m o r e p o s 'i t. i v e r e 1 a U. o n s h i p w i t h the Government of Canada and E!nsure that in tJlEl HouSE! of Commons today the fE,dE!ral ITIEltnbc>r responsible for Newfoundland and the federal Mi.nister of Ext.~rnal Affairs are fully briefed and that there is no problem in a breakdown of ~ommunications between the Province and the federal .government. Because, of course, what the federal government does on our behalf is very cr·itical in th:is situation.

T. t h :i. n !< t h e M :i. n i :; 1:. e r F o r E x t e t" n a 1 Affairs gave an indication this mor·n-tng that the,~ GoV<:!r'nmHnt of Canada sees this as a very serious tndtl:(~r and "i.nl:~::1nds lo usc,1 e~ll l::hE! diplomatic power it has. _ Unfor·t:unat.ely the Govor·nJnE!I1t: of' Canada, bE!Cause of othE!r poJ.j.ticaJ. reasons, is not :in on optimum situaU.on thE!Se day. We do not h a v ,,1 a n am bill s s a cl or t: o F r a n c c~! tAl h o could bE! r'E! ca.J.lE!d. It is unfortunate that the Prime Minister, in his wisdom, satJJ fH .. to call back Canada 1 s Ambassador No. 31 Rl628 ~ ~ './ ..... _ ...

to France at an earlier date to make his available for the Prime M t n i. s t e r· ' :; pol i U. c a J. pur p o s e s i n thra Province of QuebE:1C. Just recenl:l.y Lhf~ Pri.111e M:i.ni.si:c:'!r has set a date for a by-election in Quebec in which Canada's former Ambassador to France will be seeking a seat for the P.C. Party. So what tAJe have now is Mr.

Bouchard, the person ·who would ordinar·.ily be on the fr·ont lines representing Canada and the inh~res ts of Newfoundland and otJr fishermen, who would ordinarily be there to take this issue and respond immediatE!ly, finds himself ~~mbroiled in a political campaign in Quebec and, as a result, Canada is left without a representative France. I thj.nk that is an unfortunate situation, Mr. Speaker.

But, in any case, I would suggest that there is an opening thE!rE! that the GoVE!rnrnent of Newfoundland could call upon the federal government, as one diplomatic gesture · of Canada's intention to deal with this matter .in a very ser·:i.ous IA.IRY~ to l~Hwe the position of Ambassador to France vacant for the time bei.ng. That could ·perhaps be one among .a series of initiatives, diplomatically, that thE! Government of Canada could take. On the question of economic linkage, Mr.

Speaker, I 1.\Jould say that I, for• my. party, anc:J IAJe in this party, would be quite concerned about the discussion that is alrE!ady occurring with respect to the procurement. of nuclear submarines by the Government of Canada. That the bidding war that is raging between 8 r it ian and FrancE! to ma k ~~ a de a 1 1.1..1i th the Government of Canada for the purchase of nucledr powered submarirlE:1S somehow thE! issue that was brought l:o thE! fore L.l629 Mr.iy 6, 1988 UoJ.

XL yesterday- should b(:1corn<,~ a mal: ter that is directJ.y linked to the q u (:~ s U . () n 0 f IAJh a 1·.: c r:-l. m~ d a .i s g 0 i n g to do in its decision on purchasing nuclear submarines, is one that concerns me quite a bit, Mr. Speaker.

H : SE!(;!ms l: o me, :in f~ct it had been suggested publicly be·fore, that thE!r·~~ m:ight be direct linkage of the fisheries dispute to the purchase of nuclear powered submarines, in 1.11h:i.ch case .cana,da 1.\Jould hav<,~ a lE!Ver· that it could use in nE!gotiattons on thE! fisheries dispute with France by saying that if we purchase the nuclear powered submarines, then France would concede that negotiations on the fisheries dispute would move in a direction that would favour the position of Newfoundland and favour the position of the government of canada. No1.11, Mr.

Speaker·, that rw.i ght. indeed be something that Canada might be able to USf.! to its advantage, to say to the French that if you are as committed to l·:hc sell."Lng of nucl(~i:1r pOI.~.Jer'c"!d submarines as you seem to be, with the advertising campaign that is being waged tJJaging across thE! country battle it 1s involved with along side of Britain, then thE! gover·nrnE!nt of France udght be willing to concede somE! spaCE! and some room in il:s posit :ion on nE!gotiations wi ·t.h NE!Wfoundland and Canada on the fisheries question in ordE!r to succeed in :.i.ts bid on the nuclear powered submarines.

I would s:i.mply subrni.t, Mr. Speaker, at this point that we should allow this s:i.tuaU.on to be given sorne time. There are dynamics thai: ar·e go :ing to develop in Canada' s · relations w:i. th Fr·a n c E! on a diploma 1~.-i.c fr•ont, and no doubt economic questtons w:LJ.J. b~~ ra:i.sed, and the whole btJsinc;!SS of · No .- ·31 R1629

our trading relationship is something that is called in q u e s t i o n h e r· e . 8 u t , I wo u 1 d h o p e that the government of this Province t..uou1d not as a condition place upon the government of Canada demands that thl';1 :i.sstH1 of nuclear powered submarines be essentially tied in any way to the very sensitive matter of the fisheries negotiations.

Wc,1 .in this par·ty, of cour·se, dr'o oppos<,1d in an lHlE!quivocal li.Jay· to the purchase of nuclerlr powered submarines, so it would be cons.i.s l:c;!n t t.hat IAH:! lAJouJ.d not IAJant to see the fisheries dispute jBopdrdlzo a continuing debale that is being ·carr·ied on across the countr·y about the value of purchasing nuclear powered subrn<:lrinc,1s. W<-?. tAJould not IAJant to see that debate prejudiced and per·haps an in:it. :ir.d:.:i.v~~ tak~Hl in a pr·ematur'E! lAJay as a rE!SUlt of ·Ud.s action by the government of France yesterday. Mr.

Speaker, I would simply say that the debate, as we heard it from the LeadE!r of the Opposition and the response from the Minister of Fisheries, and the ch~llenge that the rninis ter proposes to the Liberal opposition to make clear its policy on the issue of surplus or nonsurplus cod, especially when we s~:!E! the .incre:1as1';1d dc,1rnands from other provinces in the country for access t.o our cod st.oc!<s, corning after a v.::1ry long and protracted di.f·f ··Lcul.l-: pr:1r i.od oF ti.rnE! i.n tAJh"i.ch the government of _this Province walked away from the table and rE:1fUH1d to continu(,1 to pa1"t:i cipate in discussions wi 1: h F r· an c c,1 b (! c au s r~ they had some indication that l:he GoV(:H'nm~~n t of C<Hlada 1 s I'H,1go l::idt.i.ng tearu did not have the sarne bottom 11 n e p o s i. t. to n , t. hE! s am e p r· ·i. n c t pl. c;! pos:ition, that we cannot afford at any cost to s har·e s t.oc k s w:i th L1630 May 6, 1988 Vol XL.

France, then c::\ result of the GovernmE!nt of Newfoundland walking . aiAJay from the table se<;!rns t.o have~ opE!rlE!d tho door for otl1or provinces to enter the debate and to make demands on the federal gover·nmE!nt. It se<,11Tls to rnE:1, Mr. Speaker, that there is a VE!ry criU.caJ. issue of linkagl':1 he:1re.

OthE!r' t:han expanding the linkage to include c:1 con o rni c a r· e as , t h c,~ r· o ·.:i. s a 1 :in I< a q E' already happening at the negotial"i.ng table with the Canadian government 1 s negotiating t e d m i:l c 1:. i. n g o n b (,1 h H l. f of l:: h '" ProvinCE! 1.1.Ji.th rE:1prE!SE!nt:atiVE!S frorn t h 0. f .i. s h :i. n g :i n d u s 1.: I" y a n d f r· o rn t: h E• fisher·rnem 1 s unions, and it ts quil:o 11nfor·tundi'.E! Lhi:1t l::hE! Province left the series of nE!gO t::i.attons whE:'I'l 'L t did.

B~~c<.wsE• the whole issue of whether n o n -s u r· p 1 u s c o d c o u 1. d b e d :i s c u s s ~:! d at thE! table, dE!pE!nding on t.he cond:i.t:ions set by this Province, is, of courSE!, one that :i.s VE!r'y critical t.o t.h~:! r<,'soJ.ui: .·Jon of the boundary issue, so thE!rE! is N very S1';1nsit:ive SE!t of negot:.iations thai: already exist. The discussions about non-surplus cod and access to 2J·-3KL and the~ posttion of t.he 3Ps zonE!, and what. .is happening to thE! f:isher'ITH?.rl on the Southcoast of the Province and to the Fishermen of St.

Pierre, and how to resolve the long standing question of France 1 s r·ight to fishing in. Cc1.nad:l.an IAJR h;! r· s I i:Hld t: 0 I <.-11:: t.: h ~~ s c;\l'fl(;! t. i lrlE! I protect our Northern zone, but 1';1Spoci.all.y t:o prol:.oct l::he pos::i.t:.Lon of thE! fisher·rnen fron1 t.h0.1 S o u 1':. h c o r.1 s l: , .i. s a c r· :i. t .i. c d J. r.l s p c;• c t which involves, of course, the issue of the boundary dispul::e. So, T lAJould sr:·1y t:o l.:h~1 M.inist:r: :! r' of Fisheries, around the tirne when ti-11';1 Gov<;!r'rlln~:!nt. of N~:HJJfoundland No. 31 Rl630

left the table and the Premic;!r went on province-wide television, fr~)e-t:ime, 1-:o E:~xpl.r:dn h'i.s position, t>Je and our par-ty, as IAHH'I'::~ ITIE:~mbr:H'S of L he L i. bc,1 ra 1 par·t y and the LeadE!r of the Opposition, invited to consultattons with representatives of the federal govr:H'I'lmE!I'l t, who IAJanted to ex p lr.d n thc-:dr ncO!got:iating position, and it was clear to rne al: that tirne, Mr.

Speaker, t.hat that negotiating tE~am IAJas J.n d VCO!r'Y :i.ntE!n.se pi'::H'iod of vc-:1ry SE!nsitive negotiations and the .issUI'::1 of the linkage bE!t.u.H:10I1 the boundary dispute and access to non --surplus cod IAJ.i.ll continue to be a very sensitive issue. It is not one that can so easily be resolved ' by the Minister of Fisheric-?.s, or· the-?. Premier calling the Leader of the Opposition names, 1'::1SSE:~ntially, and at.h1mtp:ing to make morE! of hts position than may actually be there. By IAJHY of conclusion, Mr.

SpPaker·, I would · say that some of thE! debate that has occurred in the House in the last couple of weeks; IAJith r'<-?.spect to l:.hr:~ cLi.ffc,~rr:lncPs of opinion between the ·Minister of Fisherles and the Le~der of the Opposi.tton, rE:1flect in my mind the i:l b s o l1.1 b~ n e e d , c\ s 1 s cit i. d a t t h ~~ beginning of my comments, to m.in:i.rnize. MR. SPEAKER: Ordl'::1r, plc,1ase! Thr:1 hon. thE! rrrernbE!r' s timE! has E:'lapsed. MR. LONG: Byu.1ayof conclusion, Mr. Speaker, if I rnay have thirty seconds l:o conclude. MR. SPEAKER: YE!S' r1B_. LONG: L..1631 Mcty 6, 1988 Vol XL.

I would simply SRY t:l'li:id~ ti·H~ intensi-ty of the debate and the demarcation of positions botween ·the tiAJo sides hi.ghJ.ight l:.he cornmc:!nl :. ~; t mr:-ldo i.n t:hr:1 bt:!g.inn:.i.ng of rny remarks, the absolute nE!E!d to m-i.n ·.i . m"i.7.f~ Lh<,l degrf~E! of pol.it."ics that ar'E! bEdng played around t.h:i.s i. s s u f'! . '[ t h :i. n k 1.: h i!l l:. i. l-:. :i. s important today that all sidE!S come togc,~thE!Y' .l.n ;~ sl'lOIAJ of unJ.ty, and we declarE! thE! common ground that exists among us, ctnd move · toward adopting a· rE!SOluU.on. Thank you, Mr. Speaker . MR.

SPEAKER (Parsons) : The hon. the MJ.n.ist:.(;lr of Car'E!•~r Development and Advanced Studies. MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Spc~akc~r. To echo the sent.:i.1m~nts of l::hE! hon. the MinistE!r of FishE!r:LE~s, it is not wi t:h any gr•ec:1t deal. of pr·:idE! that we speak :i.n this LegisJ.ahii"E! this morning r:-lbout Lhis very SE!rious issue.

I guess it IAJould affc-:1ct <:lll. of us d:Lfff:!l"C:~ni:.1y, dncl some would become very emotional onr:~ wc:~y lllh:i.J.(~ othE!r's would be affected emotionalJ.y another way. lidving a lJ(;~ry cloSE! r<;!lat.ionshoi.p geographically I represent Lhe dtstri .ct. closc~s'l':. t:o ~)t. P.iE!I"I"e and Miquelon - and being a very close fr':i.E!nd of rnt::lny oF the:! p<·wplf:! of St. PierrE! and MiqUE!lon For closE• to tiAJenty-Five years, I am affectE!d to thE! E!Xtent that I am cJ 1'::1 p r· c-:1 s s €~ d for· tiAJO r· e t:~ sons , one there are so many of rny friends :i.n St.

PiE!rr·c-?. and M:iqiH!J.on and, as well, tu.Jo people whom I SE!E! on a weekly basis, fr·orn l:hE! l:.ou.m of Fortune, are! d:i.rE!CtJ.y affE!CtE!d :i.n t:hat thc-?.y are u.Jith the cr'eiAJ. For twenty-three y E!ars :i. n s u c c E! s s ton, by t.hc-:1 IAJay, I havcO! beE!I'l to ~)t. Pierre and Miquelon. I have many fri~nds there 1 vis.i.t regular1y, No. j 1 R1631

and thc-:~y visit: me-:~ r·egularly in Fortune. You kind of find yours <·d f :in c~ d oi h~ mrna , I guess , but t.ue have to come back to, as the Prerni~~r said earlier·, t.uhat your first responsibilities are, and where· your first and strongest loyalties arE!, and in this case, putting everything I have said previously and prior in place, my loyalties and my r·c,1spons:lbil :itic-:~s, with thE! Premier and the Minister of Fishe:'id.c-:1s clnd this goV<'!Y'nmE!nt, are to stand up for the pE:1ople I r e p r· e s e n t .

T 1·1 (~ l oi. t> my f "i. r· s l: responsibil oi. ty, namely, the pE!Ople of i:hE! d:i.sl:r.i.ct of Gr·and · Bc~nk. T h <:H' e:~ h d s be<'! n a 1 o t: sa .i. d on t h :1. s issue over the last number of m o n t. h s . W ~;:1 t ~ 1. k a b o u t Uw poss:ibiljty or lhe need or the r· e a s o n s r o r. g :i. IJ ·i. n g o r· n o t·: g i. v "i. n g Fr·ancc~ Northcc1rn cod. When I look at t. h (;~ s i L u a t: i. on "L s i. n 3 P s t~Jh e I" o the French allocation is 6,400 metr·.lc t.onnes, l.clst y~:!ar HH~Y took approximately 30,000 metric tonnes; ouerf.lshed by f"i.ve times the:dr l :imi t. I go to St.

LawrencE! and LatAJn, particularly Lat.un, which is totally dependent on the trap fishery and I talk to the trap cr~ws. Last year was the best Yt~ar they had in twelve, and that was not a great year. Then I have to put that :i.n context, in .its pr·oper pE!rspective. I have a lot of feeling for the .inshore fishermen, particularly from St. Lawrence to Point May, who . ctre directly affected by IAJhat happens in 3Ps, and I have to se1y t.hc:d: overfishing certainly has to stop. Then you tie that in with the federal government ~nd France J"equesting North~1rn cod.

If they got Nor'UHH'n cod, l.AJO w:i.ll. gE!t a double whammy. Our inshore f .i. s hE! r y i. :; d l r· c,1 ad y lJE! r y neg ~ U. v e J. y affected by the overfishing in 3Ps, tAJhere the "i.nshot"e fi.sh~~r·y Ll.632 May 6, 1988 Vol XL. right along the Northeast Coast has been a failure in the last · number of years because of what has happened with the Northern cod situation. Our trawlers are very dependent upon NorthE!rn cod, as thE! hon. thE! member for Fortune Hermitage knows, and, as well, our inshoi~E! fishery .is affected by Northern cod with this migration patterns.

So if FrancE! gE!tS access t.o Nor t h <.;! r· n c o d , for· l: he r (:~ s .i. d E! n b; of my district, the inshore f:Lsht~r'Hlen, :i.t. 1.u:i.ll. b~;! a doubl~:! whammy . As o'ne reprE!sentative• :i.n t his Hoi.Jsr;! of Assc,~rnbly, '"1nd par·t.'.iciJlar·y in this govenmJE!nt, thE!Y'E! :is no l.~kl y t.: h c:~ l: I et:-\1'1 i'\ c c <:' p l: o r' p a r t :i d. J. l y endorse in any way the overfish:ing "i. n 3 P s , o r· a n y s 1 1 g g f~ s t.: "L o n t. h a l: France be given fish in 2J+Kl. ThE!r'c-:~ '.'i. s no tAJi:·lY T. CiHl stand For that. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, h(:1ar! MR. MATTHEWS: Mr.

Speaker, I think the inc:i .dent of yesterday is very closely connected and orchestratE!d tAJ:i.th what we saw happen ju st a few weeks ago, tJ.JhE!rE! we sc~IAJ the FrNlch tr·awler sa:i.l '.int.o our· IAJat.E!I"S, f:ish illE!gally and publicly announCE! ti'H,1 y W<·H' <c1 going l:o do :i i:. SE!na Lor AJ.bert PE:1nn and Mr. PJ.antE!9E!nE!St IAJ(i!r'(~ clrT(:~Si:.~:!d and IAJ<;!r'(;! br·ouqht. into St .. John 1 s with the French flctgs wrapped around their shoulders. Then t:hE!Y cam~;! out of pr·i.son and pr·ot:c,~!> i·:.('!d abou l·: I:: hE! conditions of pri so ns in 1\Jnu.Jfoundli:~nd.

Yesh1rd~y Lhc;!y SE:'·oi.zed a 1ongl'inl:1r' Fr·om Grand Le PJer'r'E:1, tAdth the;~ up oF p~;!op].('! fi"Otn No. 31 R1632

Fortune. They took them i.nto St. Pierre , the boat. Lila s seized , not allowed to leave port, but whRt did they do? They accommodated the crew Ln a hotel. They are treating them like kings. The cr'(-:!tAJ can go anywhC:H'E! they tAJctn t 'i.n St. Pierre, anywhere. ThE! Pr·t~fE~c 1:. last. night. tJi.s:i.tl:!d them in the hotel t.o seE! if ·they were comfortable, wondering if they were having a good njght. As fr.lr c:ls I dlfl concerned, Mr. Speaker, I strongly believe that l: hr:1 t.wo r.lre connecb~d.

And i.f yot,t take the incident . of the t rat.uler and the .incident of the longliner and you try to connect them udth Fr·ance 1 s st:r·ategy on negot:'i.al::ions, personally I just wonder what kind of a sJ.ick operat ·ton we-?. are deal i n_g ud th. EVE!n though this is smalJ.er, in the context of negotiations betwBE!n Canada and FranCE!, it is all connecl~ed. And, I say, . "'i.f you cannot trust France in these situations, how can you tr·ust. thmn in the larger global issue of tr·yi.ng to gwt. a s~: !ltlc,1 tnc,mt on t:hc~ boundary and fish quotas. You cannot do i.t. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, h~1ar! MR.

MATTHEWS: It just d~~monst.r·Cl.l .: r:1s -1-.o me, Mr. Spr:1akr:11n, that t.Uf:1 ar·e dr:1al ing with a stl:udl: . .ion hC:'re thr.lt ·ts go-Lng to be impossible to resoJ.ve. Now, what. is V(,H'Y tmfortunate about it, I guess , is if we compare Newfoundland to St. PiE!rrE!, we arE! sort of caught in a C a n ad i a n s q tH.H1 7- e a n d S t . P t e r· r· e .i s caught in a French squeeze. As I said, I am a bit E!lrlot.oional and affected by it becauSE! of my long connection with the "islands of St. Ll."633 · · May 6: 1988 Vol XL Pierre and Miquelon and its people.

On a clear night I can . looi< ou-t from Po:i.nt May and ~·E!l?. thE! J.ights. I t:alk to thE! pE!oplE! on the telephone. If they want something I pick it up, put H :. on 1:1'1(:1 fer·ry c\l'ld -i.t goos otlt. r~R. BAIRD: You pl~yed soccer there . MR. MATTHEWS: I t)"iE!d to play . ThE! connecU.on between my pa1nt. of t.he Pr•ovi.nc~1 and St. P:ier-r~:! and Miquelon is more than just f:i.sh.ing. T. arn sur(:! mosL of you reaJ.ize that. There has beE!n many · a bottle of French wine passed over the side of a Newfoundland boat, t.uhen they v.1E:1re having so1ne French bread and wine and so on .

It i.s mar·<;! than just ti·H~ fishing, it is water related. More than f :ish h (:\ s bE! E! n l: h ~1 <-:! x change b (;! l~tAJ~:! ~'! n Grand Bank and St.. PiE!rrE!. It is V(,1r'y t.tnfortunat .: E! that t.h~: ! people of St. Pierre and Miquelon are caught in the bind they are in. And T. r'E!fle .ct. back to t.l...lh<~t. I said earJ.ier, that for me as a N~1tMfoundl.ander, tMher·e bot.h tny grandfathers were banker F i. s h (;!

In m ~Hl I () n (~ 0 f lrl y 9 r· r.t n d ·F d t. hE! r· s I my grandfather Matth<~1tAJs, sa:iJ.od from tha Grand Banks in a dory because he got separatE!d from h:i s tJ~1ss~~l. in fog; he pul: ttp a sa i l and camE! r·ight into S'l:. PiE!r'rE!, :Lni::o th~~ Gr·and Bank, r·:i.ght·. in t:hc:! samE! arE!a whE!rE:1 aJ.l th:is happenE!d yesterday. Now, when you ref1E!Ct back and you are part of i.t, your ancestors were part of it, the people I SE!E! on a daily bas:i.s - I m<:!i~n, I can J.ook out: from Point May and I can see where this particular boat was se:i.zed YE!StE!t~day, and that 1neaJ.J.y 'tcH'rnent:.s rne.

It r·r:1aJ.J.y t:.orments No. 3 1 R1.633

me tl'lctt. ·t:hi.s k:i.nd of l:l'ling could happE:Hl. The peoplE:~ rE:~alJ.y caught in the middle are the people of St. Pierr·e and Miquelon. And I do not see any way for the Government of this ProuincE! ·and for the Go u e r nmc,Hl t o ·F Canada t:o br· .i ng France to their senses, except some tAJay wh~;:~re the plight of t.hC:~ people of St. Pierre and Miquelon is going t.o be h"ighligh tC:1d. I do not: knotAJ any othE!r way. It is not want you want, it is the last thing in thE! world that- I u.Jant, but · unless the focus is turned onto St..

PierrE! and Miquelon, I do not see any other IAJay of bring:i.ng France to their senses on the issue. Wl'u~t "i.s c:1l.so l.lnfori::unate, 30,000 TIIE:1 'I:dc tonnes of fish are being t. a b~ n out of 3 P s • on 1 y 6 , LJ.oo 1-nE~tr·J.c tonnes are allocated, and 1:'. h C:~ p e o p l. C:! o F 8 1:. . P i. E! r· i" e ;:~ n d M:i.quC:1lon aJ"e not the benef:ic:i.ar·ies of th(,~ ouc:!r·fi.slri.ng. Tf -Lt: IAH:1r'c~ the residents of St. Pierre and M i.quE~lon - not that IAJC,~ IAJOiild Sdy,, great!-- it.

IIJould bE:' a J.itt1e morE! palatable l:hat these poor people out there who are economically depressed, as we are, were benefitting frorn it. But who is benefitting? Saint-Malo; that area; that flE!et. It is not thE! people of Brittany. It is not the St. Pierre and Miquelon restdents who are benefitting from the 30,000 ITIE!tric tons. If there u.JerE! 15,000 metric tons taken out there, IJJhich would bE! half·, and if it went to the residents of St. PierrE! and Miquelon, it IAJould be a boom t.own and U.JE! IAJould hcwe 15,000 more mE!tric tonnes J.eft thc-:~r·e for St ..

Pi(:1r'r'E! dnd M'i.quelon and us to u t. i 1 i zc-:~ . If it was cut in h a 1 f ! Bu f: y()ll cr:tnnot g~:! t anyiAli'HH'E! deal:i.ng IA.dt·.h Fl~ance, Mr·. Speake!~. ThE!Y'O ·i.s no IAJi':1Y that you can do<.·1l IAJ:i.t h t h ~:!TTl . 1.. 16 34- M cl y ·6 , 1 9 8 8 Vol XL The hAlO Uroi. ng s t·:hi. s P r·ov oL n c e has consistently stood up for: The . out~l~fi.sh .. i.ng "i.n 3Ps must stop, and that thE!ir bE! no cod from 2J+3KL, not Cl. sc:aJ.e. When I go around rny districl:, which is totally affE!CtE!d by the fishery, thc,1rc-'! :i.s no IAJay thai: I can entertatn either one. Not fiut:1 metrtc tons. NonE!!

Bc~caiH'I':! the peopJ.e of my district. need .it. WhE!n you look at l~hE! hon. minister 1 s district on the North Hast co as t:, IIJh E:1 r E! t. hE! f :ish r;! I" y has been a faiJ.urE! for the past. nurnbE!r of yc·Hlrs, hOIAJ CiHl anyonE! suggest that we giUE! NorthE!rn cod to Fr·c:HlCE!? We cann.ot. OUI" OIAJI'l p e o p 1 e need i t 1:. o o rn u c h . 0 u r o IAJI'l livelihood depends on it. ·rhe other thing that really · bothE!rS rne, Mr·. Sp~:!aker·, is wh"!n :r ' he(:~ I" l: he h on . 1_ (~ i':1 rl e r· of 1". h r::! Opposition saying, YE!S, let us g:i.vc~! son1c~! Norl:h(:!r'n cod l:·.o Fr·dncc'!.

Giue them some to try to get a resolution. What? ·rhere is no guarantee that France are going to abide by t.hC:~.ir· a1locat:i.ons .in 2J+~KL anymore than they are doing "i.n 3Ps. · MR. BUTT: Right on. MR. MATTHEWS: Anyway, they are overfishing thE!re, who is to say t.hE!Y will not ouerfish somewhere else? AN HON. MEMBER: No doubt they wi11. MR. MATHI EWS: Exi:\ci:.ly! Thoy IAJil1! And Lhat-. i.s another very serious consideration t.o i.t all. Wht.'ll:. IAJ:i.ll. st:op UH:!m?

You just canno ·l: suggE!St g:iUE! thE!ITI SOI'TJC:!, bt-:!CC:·11.1SO i.f lll8 g-:i.IJ(;! l::hr:~rn SOmE! l:hey will go take rnore and then I~ hoy w·i.11. a r· g u H t h ;:,, l.: · 1: he y 1~1a n t No. 31 R1634-

more, U1ey nc,~ed more, and that ts the way it goes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker·, I shi3.re the Pr·c,Hwier·1 s confJdence, contrar·y to the LE!ader of thE:~ Opposi.tton, wi'HHl he;! talks about arbitration. If you look at thl~ Chann~~l. Islands case, France lo~.rill have to argue that cr.1s~~ in reiJc,~r·so. I l·:h:i.nk 1..uhen you talk la1..u and arbitrations you allo~.Jays tell.!< about pr•f:!CE:~rlc,Hli::s, you reflect and research back. I think we have ~ good case, par·ticul ar·ly in light of what happened wi~h the Channel Islanrls. Mr·.

Spe:~aker, I IAJi.~nt l·.:o conclude, because there are other people who want to speak From both sides. This issue is very, very tor·menti.ng to Hle, and I t:h:i.nk I have highlighted why. It is tormenting because,~ I rc,1pres~~nt a district that is totally a fJshing d.istr'i .ct. .I am tor·rnen'I::E!C:l b~'!Ci.wse I arn so geographicaJ.ly close to St.

Pier·re:' and Miquelon, and I am tormented because as a Newfoundlander and Labradorian I see France totally disregarding t.h!'::1 r·ights of Nc-?.IAJfoundJ.andE!rs and Labradorians who, for centuries, hC:·lU<-:1 fishf:!d t:he VE!ry IAJatE!rS thi:lt that vessel 1..uas seized in YE:~st.e:1rday. T j u s l". IAJan 1:: to s r.1 y , M r . S p (!a I< c,~ r , that the-?. Fl"c,~nch ar·e cJ.aiming that the,~ cr'f'!W t~.Jas no!: i.~r·rE:1stC'!d. You talk about being sLi:ck! They can go cHlyi.~Jhc,H'E! l:: hoy I.~Jc:Hlt 'i.n Sl.: ' P:ic-:!rr'e and Miquc,~] on, but they cannot. takE:~ 1-:.hC::~ boat: 01.11~. of the harbour.

You taJ.k aboul slick! Tl'wy cannot. come hom~~. No. 1 Boys, hc,~re is your bottJ.e or rum, go up to the;! hott-?.1. Her·c-?. ··i.s your· food, but you cannot have thE! boat. 1 The keys to the vc,~s!;C-?.1 are being held by Mr. Jean PierrE! Andre. · He has the l<eys. I heard Ll635 May 6, 1988 Vo1 XL him say so this rnorn:lng . MR. SIMMS: The CcHlr.ldian Consul? MR. MATTHEWS: The Canadian Consul . 3 o t hE! r (,~ t s a rM hole m.i. x go .. i. n g on her·e, Mr. Speaker.

I IAJould suggE:~st in th""i.s l .. c:~gtsl.d'l:".ur·E! th i.s morn:i.ng that not only can IAIE! not trus~ the top negotiators in France who are dealing with Cdrlr.\dd. bll'l . I sugges l: +.:hat: l:hc;!r'e are pc,'ople on thE! Island of St.. P"i.er·r·e dnd Miqu~:!J.on who shouJ.d not be trusted edther, fo1n various r o a s o n s . Be c iii us e i. f y o u l .i. s t:. c;! n t: o them pubJ.icly on the media of this P r o v i. n c <:~ , a t t t me s y o u IAI o u 1 d s IAH?. a r· the9 were our best buddies. But I assure you they are not. Mr. Sp<:~akE!Y'.

I Wclnt to go on record this morning and congr·atul.at:e aJ.l. ITIC'!lTlbE!r's and partiE!S for consenting to t.h:i.s clE:~bate. T look For'IAJfH'd to seE!.ing the resoJ.ution and fuJ.J.-heartedly endorsing it on behalf of the people of Newfoundland and Li.-lbri:ldor. SOME HON. M~MB E Rj2: Hear, hea1n! MR. SPEAKER: ThA hon. thn l"IIE!IIli:H'!r for· For· l··.l.lrl(! - H<-:~rm:i.tage. MR. SIMMONS: Mr·. Sp~~ak<:~ln I t:hC'!ln~~ oi.s : i.ncl~ : !('!d a human side to this, as the gc,~n!:J.emc:'ll'l for· Gr·and Bdnl< dJ.st:r·:tct: has so well put it.

There are ftue ·people here and their families who have been through quite a trauma "i.n the last tew hours through no fauJ.t of their OIAJn, and UH:~t: ts an issue;! that ought to cancer~ all of us as legislators and Newfoundlanders No . 3 1 R1635

~nd L~bradorians . Mr. Speaker, there 1s ~ larger human :issue here,~. in that liter~ll.y hundreds of fishermen, indeed over the years l:iterally t.housands and t~~ns of t.houS('tnds of fishermen have fished in uJhat IJ.JE:1 now kno1.1.J as 3PS, c:~s one f "i.sherman put it to me on the phone last n i g h t , c,~ v e r· s :i n c e C <.·\ b o t c arne over· . They have been there a long time->. in those exact Si.:\Jne waters, midway between BrGnette and Miquelon Head, as was Willoughby Bolt yesterday afternoon when he 1.vas kidnappc-;!d, :i.s thc,1 IJJOrd. HE:~ was kidnapped!

He was taken against his wiJ.l! lie lnr;\y have->. the run of a a town, of a square m:l1e of so of territory, but he is kidnappc->.d, if you unde:1rstand that k :l d n a p p ·t n g i. s p l c:\ c E! d :i. n a s:i tuat:ion that you do not voluntarlly elect to be placed in. When he left Fortune at four-thirty yesterday morning, he ~~ ad n o p l a n s t. o b r~ :f. n S t . P :i. e n· c,1 last rdght. 1-lC:l is not there becc:.J.use of his volii:ion, hE:~ Js the:1re, Ml". Speaker·,. because he was out rn:i.ndi.ng hi.s own busirwss.

HE:1 went out East/Northeast of M lqtH->.l.on He:1ad, about ninE! or tc->.n miles, shot away his gear, then began tow-i.ng l:o the WE:1stwar·d. Within fifteen minutes he was aJ.erted by l:hc-?. FrcH1ch Navy pc,~oplc'! and told that he IAJas going to be boarded. He was out the r·e do:i ng what his colleagues, his countcH·parts, and his iH1C~1S t:ors have done for hundr·eds of years. Let tt1at. be clear·ly undc,~rstood. He was minding his own business. H ~~ IAJH s we,~ 11 IAri t h 'i. n the 1. HIJ.J.

H E:1 was well within the traditional a c t. 'i. v t t y o f g c~ n e:~ r• <"~ t .. i o n s o f p e o p l E! on that. corlst. ThE:~ gc,HltlNnan for· Grand Bank (Mr. M c\ t t h ~~ IAJ

s) a J. s o 1 n E! n 1:: :i. o n s t: h E! L.1636 May 6, 1988 UoJ XL di.lemtna t:hat thf:l people of S 1:. Pierre find themselves in and I . wcts delighted that he, the Minister of Career Development and Ad van c eH.:I ~3 t u d 'i. C:' s , took a rnu c h rno 1" e sane app~oach than his colleague the Min:i.ster of Fisheries (Mr. R:idE!OUt), wJ.t:h 1.vhorn hE! should have a wor·d, who was up th:i.s morning, when hE! took hyste!rical J.eave of tr:i.m s e 1 f o n o n e o f s E! v E! r' a 1 occasions, talking about sancU.ons in . I:E!r·ms of hosp:ital and a:ir ambulancE!. .

First t.h:is :i.s desp:lcable, and secondly, tt has no pl.ace in this particular debate. The pE!ople of St. Pi ern!, IAJhorn 1 do nol: r'ef>r'E:lsent i.n th.is chami:H~r but J.ike the gE!ntlennan fc,r Grand Bank T hr.we hc:·H~ occas:ion to s 0 c :i a 1 i Z E! IAJi t h , I IAJE! n t thE! r e t 0 Ll"Y and l.ear·n sorrH'! Fr·ench IALi.th perhaps no morE! success than thE! g(,lntl(,~lflan hdd at soccc;!r', btxt: t:hat·. is another debate AN HON. MFMRER: (lnaud:i.blc;!) soccer . MR. SIMMONS: As I said, no more than . But, Mr.

Speaker, these pEwplE! are t.he pat.~ms :i.n thett part:'icul.cilr' game too, and we can bE! divert:E!d chas:ing r·abbits, as the expl"E!SS:i.on gOE!S, or we can focus on the ma:i.n i.sst.te. I uJdnt. to subrn'J.t that IAJe have not focuSE!d VE!r·y much on t.hE! rnain .isstH1 'in this particular situation. I giVE! you as E!Xhibi t numbE•r onE! t:he Pr·c,1tnier· 1 s Tc->.lc'!x t.o Ot::t.i:·liAJa uJhich WE!nt out, apparent.J.y, this rnorrdng, May 6. He talks abotjt the action and he calls on the gov~~rnHH'!l'lt to do CE.H'ta"i.n th:ings: suspE!ndtng me!diation, and so and so.

Whi:-lL shocked rn~~ c\bout: thO'i.s part:'.icul.ar· Telex IAJas the abSE!nCE! of <:·\I'll) l"E!ff:!r'C,11'1CE! 1::0 E!COI'lOifl':i.C No. 31 R1636 ,.

lever·s. Here we go again, 'talking out of bo ·th sides of our mouths. We have watchc.;!d tht;! Dl'!par-·bnent~ of Development do it. here, and they are about to perpetrate the second deed with this Aerospatiale deal f o r C H C . The y h a v ,,~ a l r· e ad y do n e it and tried to justify it in this House. You talk c:~bou l people talking out of both sides of their rnoul:hs, Mr. Sp~:H~k•~r.

Th~~Y S(~B no problem at all with aidjng and i:·\bE!t.l:.:i.ng t~hl':~ Fr·ench, 1~Jh0111 t:hey have;! all the r·ight: JA.Jords for· .this rnori'Li.ng: Tl'l<:!!Y <H'(~ qu;:u• . rr.~J.sorne, thc,~y arE:~ tc;!rrible, they are Ci;\ntdl'lkC;!f'OLIS. flul .: I;.Jf:~ do bt.t s.i.l'lE!SS I;.J:i.th t.hc,~m, anyway. That. is the net rnessage going out to Paris from tl'l:i s adm:in:istration. You can do wh,:\t you like:! ·t.o us, you cc.-Hl ar1nest our· pc,~opl!O~, har·ass our families 1n Grand Le Pierre and eJ.sewhere on thE! South Coast, but we will do business with you.

That is the message going out from that administration . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMONS : Mr. Speaker, th!:~Y might do business, they might continue talking out of both sides of their mouths but we, on this s:ide of the House, arc,~ not go:i.ng l~:o condone it .

And one of the things IAJB IAJant to S(:~e in I;.Jhr:'lt i.s oi.:hE!rliJ:i.SI'' '"good l"esoJution, bas:icaJ.1y a motherhood r e s o l1.1 t: i. o n , no t nod r· l y c:-1 s s 1:: r· o n g as thE~ di(:1tor·ic t hat you hear fr·om t:hc,~ Prc,1JrJ"i.~H' ;:~nd lhE! f.IJ"i.n "' i.sl~e:H' of fjshE~r':ies th:i.s rnorn:ing, but if 1:-.hoy IAJdnl:. l:.o p1.11·. so111E! subst;:~nct:~ l·.:o thr-.!t lnE!Solut:ion t:l'l:i s morning, Mr·. s p 1':~ r:~ k (:~ r· I 1:. h (:~ y IAri. l l i:l d d r· (:1 s s MR. BAIRD : Djd you say it is rhetoric? MR.

SIMMONS: I said wh~t tl'le Premier and the Ll637 May 6, 1988 Vol XL Minister of Fi.sher:i.es sa:id is rhetoric, and I wilJ. cornE! back to . that, but I am t.alk.:i.ng about the resolution. I said we wilJ. endorse the resolution but we would like to see if fortifiE!d a bit. We would like to see it. fortified so that the HousE! wou1d :i.nstruct the Government of NeiAJfoundland to put its monE!.Y ~~JhHr(~ i.l.:s mouth 'is. 11-.: ..I.S dll. l)(;!ry IAJ~:!ll l·:o ~;i.t. d01.1JI"' here :in . NNufoundJ.and and say big b;:~cl Ot:l :ai;.Jf.l do l.:h:is, do t:lri.s and do this.

We agreE! with thE!rn L1JhEHl l .: ht;~y s;:~y thi'\l :. , but ~~;o I;.J <:~nt to, -i_n the next motJthful say, and IAJ(;! thE:! GotHH'I1111~~nl:. of 1\lli:~wfoundland, ;u·e prepared to do likewise. SOME HON. MEMBERS: R:i.ght on! MR. SIMMONS : If you want the Government of Canada, Mr. Spt~aker·, l:. o stop the deal on nucJ.ear subrnarinE~s, t.o stop nc,~got.iat.ing on air·buses, tl'wn you, Government of Newfoundland, have to stop dealing on t.he offshore issue, and haVE! to stop dei'lling on the aerospatiale issUE!. You have to stop it. You have to suspend all that . 1\JOIAJ, Mr .

SF)(~Cih!r', you S(~e thE! fi:<tcl:: of the matter is that the PrE!Tn:iE!I" J·1:i.mself must t.akC'! sorn~~ of· Lhc~ responsibility for Canada's un.in · for'lfl(:~c:J dppr·oach 1:-.o l::hE! Can ad a I F r· cHI c e f j_ s J·d n g d i s p u t E! . If ~1 r· . ~1 :i. d d o n d n d M r . M ul. r· o n <"' y a n d Ml". Clar·k do not knot..1.J E:~ xact]y hoL1J t o d o al. IAI i. l h t: h o F t' C'! n c h , d n d -.i. f IJ.Jio' are to believe that Lhe Premier a n d 1.: h (:!

M -:i. n i. s t. c,~ I" of F "i. s h (~ t' .i (;! s h a v <;! · all the answers on thE:• nuancE!s of deal. .i.ng with the 'quarrelsome French', then thE! PrE!ITiiE!r has to t;:,\kH a fair· dlnount of responsibility for not communicating that insight, that No. 31 Rl637

k not.AJJ.t:~dge Cam..\da. to But the Government of as we knOIAI, Mr·. SpN~\ke;!r', i·.:h,,! Pt··~:!rnir,~r 1 :> quarrelsome, tctntrurn approach to c-:l v o r y t lri. n g i. s d b s o l.u t c,~ 1. y l o g E! n d <.'1 r y :i n 0 t tcw.J a . It is well known in Ottawa that the Pr'i.IIH:~ Min:i.si-.E!T' of tlri.s countr·y takE:~s no plE!asure at all in d e,~ a 1 i. n g IAJ.i. l h t h E:~ P r e,~ m.i E! r· of t h i s Province; he does it. only under duress, only e\s is absol.ute,~ly necessary and nev~r more often. MR. TULK: fhai: i.s right.. MR.

SJ.II.1MONS: I am toJ.d that the big poliU.cal quandary on th(:~ offshore t:ht:H'(:~ ar·e issues to be settJ.ed out with the consort.tum, T. under·st.and .. in Ottawa these days is how to get it rrtOV.ing and ;,\t thE~ SalliE! t.i.IIH~ ndnim:izP t.he political cr·(:~dit: to the Premier of thts Province. I'-1R. TULK: That i.s r·ight. MR. SIMMONS: l"hat i.s the bi.g pol.:ll".:i.cr:~l. qu<~ndar·y they have,~ in Otta1..11a these pi:lr'l::i.cul.r:lr days, hotAJ to m:i.nirn:i.Le,~ l:.he crE!d:it . to thE!

Pr·emiE!r of Ne-'!tJ.Jfoundl.and and, at th":! saHH:~ t..ime, Jaunch the offshorE! in a tAJay that will benefit the people of NetAJfoundland. The Premier goes on about no clout be,H:ause we only have,~ sev"Hl seats. If I heard it from anybody else in this count.r·y, I could t.al<e it. 1.1.d.l::h a grain of salt.. But having been lectured by 'his Minister of Fisheries this morning about talking ou-t. of both s.id~~s of mouths, to hear him whinE! about:. no clout and SE!VE!n SHi3.ts, r:lnd then to hear him :in the next mouthful stoutly dt:~fend t.hc:1t. s~:!l.l.o .ut.

Cf.·lllE!d 1.1638 May 6, 1988 Vol XL rJ! f?. 8 C h 1. <.'\ k 8 1 1: h f.ol ·[·. S (~ l J. 0 1J t IAJ h ·i C h ensurE!S, Mr·. SpE:~aker, that 1.1.1e IJ.Ji.J.l. nr,~v~~r hr:·\lJE! t:-ll'liJ clout. be,~caus~=! t:.hc,~y tAJould rernovE! fr·om us any r'E!gional. b <.'11. a nc c~ <:1 s p t·• o lJ i d ~~ d for· :i. n a proper Senate - that is an issue I will det.'ll. with sep~rcttel.y - but to hear him again talking out of both si.d(:~S of hi.s tnouth on thai~ is an issue that I have difficulty remi:lini.ng s·:i.l.e;•t'l.t on. Rut . lc;!t rrH.;! COitH,~ l:o Lhe;! M:in:i.sb :! tn of Fjsheries.

HE! is not·. in t:.hE• Ctl!Hnber·, bu ·t he knoiAJs t:hc:lt. I only have limited tirne and I would assurne that he oi.s IJ.Jit:h:in c,~ar·shot .. Mr. Speaken·, I submit t:.o h"irn that Lhe reason the Minister of Fisheries and tliE! PremiE!r haVE! so badly furnb1ed the-?. bc-ll1 on th:is whole issue of Canada/France is because of an obsession, an obsession with childish, crude, p e-'! 1:. ul. <it n l: d :i. s p ·.i. c f.\ b l. e,~ p p 1. oi. t·. i. c s .

A n cl we satAJ it t·:.his morning aga:l.n, thE• trri.nute hr,~ go l": up. 1·1~~ I~JdS not. on his feet thirty seconds when he Wi:•\ S C h r'lt' r:~ C t C;! r .i. z:i. 1'1 9 t:.l'lf'' C 0 tfiiTH:! 1'1 l:. i"H'Ij from my friend from Windsor Buchans, t:hr,~ l .. eadc-'!r' of th~:! Opposition, characterizing it in p~rt.isRn poltlital terms. Mr.

Speaker, if there ts one! th:ing ·I IAIOI.Il.d ""l ." i.lq~ t.O Sf.~lj "i.J'l th"i.s d~ : !bdl~e thJ.s mor·ning and say par·t:i.culatnly l::o the Mini.ster of Fisheries, I know him well, and I know him as a rnan 1~.1ho Ci"H'C:'s VE:H'IJ chH!ply abotJ L Newfoundland, but I arn watching what 1s happen i ng to him these d a y s a n d h :i. s r .h e to r i c :.l s g Ed .. t. :i n ~1 th~~ bE!i":te;!r' of him, his r·hE!tor·::i.c .:i.s mobilizing his soul. r:1_R . T lJ L. K : We all care. MR. SIMMONS: HE! has lost track of 111!:-ltte:H's. And I rnc:~kc;! appeal on behalf of Bolt. ..

No. 31 what rE!ally t:o hilfl an WtJ.loughby Rl638

MR. SIMMS: What do you call thts, if it is not rhc;!toric? MR. SIMMS : and the other four people on that: boat, Mr. Speakc;!r, T. rnal<e to him an appet-ll and it is th:i s: On this one if on nothing else, in thE! name of God, for God 1 sake, I say to tl'w MinisLE!r' of Ftsheri.es, leave your· cheap partisan politics at your· c,:u.tcus roo111 door. L~~i.·\lJe it bctck c-lt: thE:~ caucus r·oom door·, bc,1cr.~u~;(,:~ Wi.llotJghby Boll:. :i.s not intel"eS ted in your patnt:isan p o 1 ·.i. t i. c s . 11 e .i. s n o 1.: ·i. n 1: o I" 0. s t o d "i. n thC~t at cill, Mr~ Speaker. Now, M r· .

S p e d I< (:H' , IAJ h o "i. s 1" .i g h +: ? T h t:'l t: is thE:1 :issuE:~ that ar·:ises out of 1:: hi. s d "~ b i.'l 1:. 1':1 1':. h :i. s 1110 nli. n g . !Ill h o :"i. s d ght.? · The Prem :i ~1r said t:.hts lll<H'n ·i. ng, V EH' y C l. E:H:H'} l/ .MR. ~HMMS: Wha l:. J.s r·ight. IAJ h i'l t "i_ S r' i 9 h t ! Not IAJho :i.s r·ight, MR. SIMMONS : Mr. Speaker, I would likE! to haVE! a little protc-:lct.ion. I have some-?. things I want to say. The gentleman for Gr·and Falls lflr::lY not agree with them, but I do not need any coaching fr·om h:i.rn on thc,1 matter. MR. SPEAKER: Or·dc;!r', please! MR.

SIMMS: You need coaching frorn a lot of p(wpl.e .. MR. STMMOI\JS: Wl"li:i'I:E:~Vt::H' you say . You hav1::1 ahuays been right before. MR . SPEAKER: Olnder·, please! MR. SIMMONS: NOIAJ, Mr. Sp<:1clker, t:f1e Pr'E!Trri.E!r' Si"il "i.d L1639 May 6, 1988 Vol XL t h i s mo r' n i n g i: h a t F r a n c e h a s rights in Canadian IJJaters. Now, . Mr. Sp1::1aker, i.s there,) anybody :in the Chamber who would disagree, - who would deny that l".he Pr'c:~rn.-i.er said that this morning? HE! said Fr·ance hi!\S r·ights in Canadian waters. I am sorry! He said France has fishing rights in Canadian IJ.Jaters. Now, Mr.

Speaker, what does he IIH?.i"Hl by fish:i.ng r--i.ght!;? Who :i.~; he;! fodling? Does he mean Lhey are r.~l.lOIAJ~~d t-.o padcll.o boi~l l::s over· I·H:!I"e, star·t their motor's over h(H'E!, foi.x 1: h e,~ j_ Y' 0 U t b 0 d Y' d !) 0 IJ 0 I" h E! I" 1':1 , Ill E! r1 ci their nE!tS OVE!r hE!rE!? What ciOE!S h r.~ HI H i.Hl b y f J s lri. n g ,~ J g h 1".. s ? ~3 u r· 1:'! 1 y fishing r·ights means thE! r·-.i.ght l:o Ci'll:.ch r :i.sh. Surely J.l". rnedl"lS t.hat., or· it means nothing.

The Pr·c-:~ miE!r' s l:: a n d !; t h ~:· r· e a n d h E! s a y ~ ; c l. <-:~ a r· 1 y , France has fishing rights in Canadian waters .. The:1 l .. eader· of l::h~~ OpposJ.I :::.i.on today, and rnany tirnes forrnerly, has sa:i .d thE! Si:,11rJ(;! l:hJ.ng :i.n ot:h<:'r words and suddenly it. is a grE!cd: big s .in, and l".:he,1 M'inish.H' of Fisheries gets up and flips his ltd, as he so oft~Hl does :in a bit of rhetoric spite, and hE! gOE!S on IJ.Jith his grandstand·.ing · about: not. onE! cod, and so on and so on and s o for 1: h . N OIAJ, put t: h <:1 t.l,vo together. Who is right:.?

Is H .: the M.in:i.st.er· "of F :i.shc,~ri.e,~s t).Jho says, • No cod . • Or is it.: thE! P r· t::1 HI :i. e-:! r IAJ h o s a y s , 1 F r· iHl u:! h a s fishing rights in Canadian IAJi:~t.~:!I"S? • NOIAJ, T. ox+:r·apol.d-I::E! l:-.hc-:1 fishing ri.ghts to mean thE! · r:ight t: o f t s h , -1.: h t::! r· ""i. g h t: t·. o c a 1.: c h f J. s h . What :i s t h.e poi n t :i n I:Hd n g o u t l::h~!r'(;! i.f you rH'~;! 1"101-: going 1:.0 c a t c h s ornE! f i s h '? Mr. Speaker·, th:is morning t.he P r· r;!HI""i. eH' lAid s v 1':1 r· y c r· :i t. i c a 1 of Canada 1 s approach :in a11 of th:i.s.

He:1 used wor·ds l'Lk<,~. 1 Ci!ll"li~1da i.s a No. 31 Rl639

nice, middle-of-the-road diplomat. 1 and hE! Lo\lent on . to say. 1 Tlv'll d CH! s no 1:. IAJO r· k IAJi t. h t: h c"1 qu~rrelsome French. 1 Now, Mr. Sp(~i:'lk~~r·, T. suburi . t l:.o h .lur i::hc:~t Bl"i.an Mulr"oney has not exact1y bE~E~ n s Jt 1:: i. ng up :l n Ot l:aiAk\ IAJ<:~i i.:"l ng for· that : br· :illiant insight from the Prem"ler of Newfoundland. I have a suspicion that the Prime M ·L n i. s l: C:! r of 17. hi. s c o Ll n l: r 1J k n (~ IAl beforehand exactly what he was doing, and I IAlill tell you IAlhy . He is not nearly as naiVE! about: t h :i. s as the P r· c,Hn:i e r s u g g e s 1:. s .

Rather·, the Prime Minister of Canada has basE!d his actions on a well-calculated strategy which comp1etc-?.ly ignores Nt:11Aifound1and in all of this becauSE! that Premier, with his tantrum approach to E:1Veryt:.hing, has put himself in a posit"i.on whc·H'e hE:1 can be :lgnor·(~ d by the Prime Minister of this countr·y, c.;!ven though he i.s of thE:1 sanre po] itical strJpE!. That :is IJ.J h a t .is at. thE! h <-:1 a r, 1:: of t h t s issue, Mr·. SpE~aker. We have lost our· vo:i.ce. We hi'IVE! lost~ our· abili t y to bargain . We are not taken s E:1r-i.ou s l. y iHlY rnor·(~