British Columbia Hansard — 8 May 2019, p.m., Issue 251 (41st Parliament, 4th Session)

20190508pm-Hansard-n251

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session, 41st Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD) Wednesday, May 8, 2019 Afternoon Sitting Issue No. 251 THE HONOURABLE DARRYL PLECAS, SPEAKER ISSN 1499-2175

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC Fourth Session, 41st Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Darryl Plecas EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................... Hon. John Horgan Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance............................................................................................................................Hon.

Carole James Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Training..................................................................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Minister of Agriculture.........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General.................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ............................................................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Child Care...................................................................................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Citizens’ Services.................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Jinny Sims Minister of Education ............................................................................................................................................................ Hon. Rob Fleming Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources ...............................................................................................Hon. Michelle Mungall Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy............................................................................................. Hon.

George Heyman Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ..............................................Hon. Doug Donaldson Minister of Health .....................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ......................................................................................................... Hon.

Scott Fraser Minister of Jobs, Trade and Technology............................................................................................................................ Hon. Bruce Ralston Minister of State for Trade...............................................................................................................................................Hon. George Chow Minister of Labour ...................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions............................................................................................................................ Hon. Judy Darcy Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.................................................................................................................. Hon. Selina Robinson Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ........................................................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction..............................................................................................Hon. Shane Simpson Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture.....................................................................................................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure................................................................................................................ Hon.

Claire Trevena LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition................................................................................................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Leader of the Third Party ....................................................................................................................................................Dr. Andrew Weaver Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................................................................................

Raj Chouhan Assistant Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................................................................... Joan Isaacs Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ................................................................................................................

Spencer Chandra Herbert Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ....................................................................................................................................................Craig James Acting Clerk of the Legislative Assembly...............................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Clerk Assistant — Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ..........................................................................................Susan Sourial Sessional Law Clerk...............................................................................................................................................Loredana Catalli-Sonier, QC Parliamentary Counsel ...................................................................................................................................................................... S.

Suzie Seo Sergeant-at-Arms ................................................................................................................................................................................. Gary Lenz Acting Sergeant-at-Arms......................................................................................................................................... Randall Ennis, MMM, CD

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal) ........................................................................ Penticton Bains, Hon. Harry (NDP)...............................................................Surrey-Newton Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ................................................... Cariboo-Chilcotin Beare, Hon. Lisa (NDP).............................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Begg, Garry (NDP) ..................................................................... Surrey-Guildford Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) .......................................................

Peace River South Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal)......................................... Prince George–Valemount Brar, Jagrup (NDP)..................................................................... Surrey-Fleetwood Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal)....................................................... Surrey South Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) ..................................... Vancouver–West End Chen, Hon. Katrina (NDP).....................................................Burnaby-Lougheed Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ............................................................... Burnaby-Edmonds Chow, Hon.

George (NDP)............................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal) ................................ Columbia River–Revelstoke Coleman, Rich (BC Liberal) ...............................................................Langley East Conroy, Hon. Katrine (NDP)......................................................... Kootenay West Darcy, Hon.

Judy (NDP) ............................................................New Westminster Davies, Dan (BC Liberal) ..........................................................Peace River North de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal) ............................................ Abbotsford West Dean, Mitzi (NDP)...............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin D’Eith, Bob (NDP) ...............................................................Maple Ridge–Mission Dix, Hon. Adrian (NDP)......................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Donaldson, Hon.

Doug (NDP).....................................................................Stikine Eby, Hon. David, QC (NDP)............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (NDP)....................................................... Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Hon. Mike (NDP) ...................................................... Port Coquitlam Fleming, Hon. Rob (NDP) .....................................................Victoria–Swan Lake Foster, Eric (BC Liberal)........................................................... Vernon-Monashee Fraser, Hon.

Scott (NDP) ................................................ Mid Island–Pacific Rim Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) ........................................... Cowichan Valley Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) ................................................. Abbotsford-Mission Glumac, Rick (NDP)........................................................Port Moody–Coquitlam Heyman, Hon. George (NDP) .............................................. Vancouver-Fairview Horgan, Hon. John (NDP) ...............................................

Langford–Juan de Fuca Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) .......................................................Surrey-Cloverdale Isaacs, Joan (BC Liberal) .........................................Coquitlam–Burke Mountain James, Hon. Carole (NDP)...................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Johal, Jas (BC Liberal)...............................................

Richmond-Queensborough Kahlon, Ravi (NDP)..............................................................................Delta North Kang, Anne (NDP)..................................................................Burnaby–Deer Lake Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal)............................................................................ Shuswap Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) .............................................Boundary-Similkameen Lee, Michael (BC Liberal) ......................................................

Vancouver-Langara Leonard, Ronna-Rae (NDP) ....................................................Courtenay-Comox Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal)............................................Kelowna–Lake Country Ma, Bowinn (NDP) ................................................... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Malcolmson, Sheila (NDP) .......................................................................Nanaimo Mark, Hon. Melanie (NDP) ..................................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Martin, John (BC Liberal)......................................................................

Chilliwack Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal).................................... Kamloops–North Thompson Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ..........................................Prince George–Mackenzie Mungall, Hon. Michelle (NDP).................................................... Nelson-Creston Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal) ...........................................................Cariboo North Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)........................... Saanich North and the Islands Paton, Ian (BC Liberal)......................................................................... Delta South Plecas, Hon.

Darryl (Ind.) ..........................................................Abbotsford South Polak, Mary (BC Liberal) ............................................................................ Langley Popham, Hon. Lana (NDP)..............................................................Saanich South Ralston, Hon. Bruce (NDP) .......................................................... Surrey-Whalley Redies, Tracy (BC Liberal) ..................................................... Surrey–White Rock Reid, Linda (BC Liberal) ................................................

Richmond South Centre Rice, Jennifer (NDP) ............................................................................ North Coast Robinson, Hon. Selina (NDP) ....................................... Coquitlam-Maillardville Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal)..................................................................................Skeena Routledge, Janet (NDP) .................................................................. Burnaby North Routley, Doug (NDP) ................................................Nanaimo–North Cowichan Rustad, John (BC Liberal) ..............................................................

Nechako Lakes Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal) .............................................................Kootenay East Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ........................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Hon. Shane (NDP)................................................ Vancouver-Hastings Sims, Hon.

Jinny (NDP) .............................................................Surrey-Panorama Singh, Rachna (NDP) ........................................................Surrey–Green Timbers Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal) ................................................................Kelowna West Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal)..............................................Parksville-Qualicum Stone, Todd (BC Liberal)........................................

Kamloops–South Thompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal).......................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal)...............................................Vancouver–False Creek Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal) ......................................... West Vancouver–Capilano Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ................................................................ Fraser-Nicola Thomson, Steve (BC Liberal)..................................................... Kelowna-Mission Thornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) .............................

North Vancouver–Seymour Throness, Laurie (BC Liberal) ..................................................... Chilliwack-Kent Trevena, Hon. Claire (NDP) .............................................................. North Island Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal) ................................................Richmond North Centre Weaver, Dr. Andrew (BC Green Party) ......................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal) .............................. Vancouver-Quilchena Y ap, John (BC Liberal)..........................................................

Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission ..........................................................................Simon Gibson Abbotsford South ..................................................................... Hon. Darryl Plecas Abbotsford West .................................................................... Michael de Jong, QC Boundary-Similkameen.....................................................................

Linda Larson Burnaby–Deer Lake ...............................................................................Anne Kang Burnaby-Edmonds ..............................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Burnaby North................................................................................

Janet Routledge Cariboo-Chilcotin ............................................................................Donna Barnett Cariboo North .................................................................................. Coralee Oakes Chilliwack.............................................................................................. John Martin Chilliwack-Kent..............................................................................Laurie Throness Columbia River–Revelstoke........................................................

Doug Clovechok Coquitlam–Burke Mountain................................................................. Joan Isaacs Coquitlam-Maillardville..................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Courtenay-Comox ................................................................. Ronna-Rae Leonard Cowichan Valley ............................................................................

Sonia Furstenau Delta North ...........................................................................................Ravi Kahlon Delta South.................................................................................................Ian Paton Esquimalt-Metchosin.............................................................................Mitzi Dean Fraser-Nicola........................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Kamloops–North Thompson............................................................Peter Milobar Kamloops–South Thompson ................................................................Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country....................................................................Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission.............................................................................

Steve Thomson Kelowna West.........................................................................................Ben Stewart Kootenay East .....................................................................................Tom Shypitka Kootenay West ...................................................................... Hon. Katrine Conroy Langford–Juan de Fuca............................................................. Hon. John Horgan Langley....................................................................................................

Mary Polak Langley East .......................................................................................Rich Coleman Maple Ridge–Mission ............................................................................ Bob D’Eith Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..........................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Mid Island–Pacific Rim .............................................................. Hon. Scott Fraser Nanaimo ....................................................................................

Sheila Malcolmson Nanaimo–North Cowichan.............................................................. Doug Routley Nechako Lakes ...................................................................................... John Rustad Nelson-Creston.................................................................. Hon. Michelle Mungall New Westminster ......................................................................... Hon. Judy Darcy North Coast..........................................................................................

Jennifer Rice North Island ............................................................................ Hon. Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale ................................................................. Bowinn Ma North Vancouver–Seymour ......................................................Jane Thornthwaite Oak Bay–Gordon Head ..........................................................Dr.

Andrew Weaver Parksville-Qualicum .....................................................................Michelle Stilwell Peace River North.................................................................................. Dan Davies Peace River South ............................................................................... Mike Bernier Penticton................................................................................................ Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam .................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam .....................................................................Rick Glumac Powell River–Sunshine Coast ..................................................... Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie ..................................................................Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount.................................................................

Shirley Bond Richmond North Centre ........................................................................Teresa Wat Richmond-Queensborough .......................................................................Jas Johal Richmond South Centre........................................................................ Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston..................................................................................

John Y ap Saanich North and the Islands............................................................Adam Olsen Saanich South............................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Shuswap .................................................................................................... Greg Kyllo Skeena ......................................................................................................... Ellis Ross Stikine ..................................................................................Hon.

Doug Donaldson Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................................... Marvin Hunt Surrey-Fleetwood ...................................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey–Green Timbers ......................................................................Rachna Singh Surrey-Guildford ....................................................................................Garry Begg Surrey-Newton.............................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama........................................................................... Hon. Jinny Sims Surrey South............................................................................... Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Whalley........................................................................ Hon. Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ............................................................................. Tracy Redies Vancouver-Fairview ............................................................ Hon.

George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek....................................................................... Sam Sullivan Vancouver-Fraserview .............................................................Hon. George Chow Vancouver-Hastings .............................................................. Hon. Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington ..................................................................... Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway ................................................................... Hon.

Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara .............................................................................. Michael Lee Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Vancouver–Point Grey...........................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Vancouver-Quilchena ......................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Vancouver–West End....................................................Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee...................................................................................Eric Foster Victoria–Beacon Hill ................................................................ Hon. Carole James Victoria–Swan Lake .................................................................. Hon. Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano .................................................................

Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ..............................................................Jordan Sturdy Party Standings: BC Liberal 42; NDP 41; BC Green Party 3; Independent 1

CONTENTS Wednesday, May 8, 2019 Afternoon Sitting Page Routine Business Introductions by Members..................................................................................................................................................... 9025 Introduction and First Reading of Bills................................................................................................................................ 9026 Bill M213 — Prohibiting Driving with Illegal Firearms Act M.

Hunt Statements (Standing Order 25B) ......................................................................................................................................... 9027 Laida Falsetto J. Routledge Sherry Elwood L. Reid Economic development R. Glumac Peace River area grandmothers of MLAs G. Kyllo Peers Victoria Resources Society M. Dean Peace River area grandmothers of MLAs D. Davies Oral Questions......................................................................................................................................................................... 9029 Action on gas prices A.

Wilkinson Hon. J. Horgan J. Johal Protection of old-growth forests A. Olsen Hon. D. Donaldson Action on gas prices and investigation of pricing practices S. Bond Hon. B. Ralston J. Thornthwaite Action on gas prices and government position in Alberta court case M. de Jong Hon. B. Ralston Action on gas prices P . Milobar Hon. B. Ralston Point of Privilege(continued) ................................................................................................................................................ 9034 M. Polak Hon. M.

Farnworth Orders of the Day Committee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 9036 Estimates: Ministry of Finance(continued) A. Weaver Hon. C. James A. Olsen S. Furstenau T. Redies I. Paton T. Wat S. Bond Report and Third Reading of Bills......................................................................................................................................... 9051 Bill 18 — Workers Compensation Amendment Act, 2019

Committee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 9051 Estimates: Ministry of Finance(continued) Hon. C. James T. Redies S.

Bond Report and Third Reading of Bills......................................................................................................................................... 9054 Bill 29 — Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act, 2019 Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 9055 Estimates: Ministry of Education(continued) J. Thornthwaite Hon. R. Fleming D. Davies P .

Milobar Committee of the Whole House............................................................................................................................................ 9069 Bill 18 — Workers Compensation Amendment Act, 2019 J. Martin Hon. H. Bains Bill 29 — Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act, 2019 P . Milobar Hon. G. Heyman M. Lee Hon. D.

Eby Proceedings in the Birch Room Committee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 9073 Estimates: Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing Hon. S. Robinson T. Stone N. Letnick S. Thomson J. Thornthwaite M. Lee S. Sullivan

WEDNESDAY , MAY 8, 2019 The House met at 1:31 p.m. Acting Clerk of the Legislative Assembly:Good after- noon, Members. Pursuant to Standing Order 12, the House is advised of the unavoidable absence of the Speaker. [R. Chouhan in the chair.] Routine Business Prayers. [1:35 p.m.] Introductions by Members J. Brar:Thank you, hon. Speaker. First of all, I would like to wish you well for this good day in that chair. I’m really pleased to welcome our hard-working and ded- icated team of constituency assistants in the gallery.

Our CAs are in town this week for their annual conference, and they’re here from across the province. They do a super job serving the people of British Columbia, assisting them on a range of issues. They listen to painful and emotional stories of constituents with patience and respect. They change lives by resolving complex and difficult cases for people who are going through a difficult time in their lives. They’re here today in the gallery to watch our thoughtful and respectful debate during question period. I ask every member of the House to please make all the CAs welcome today in question period. Hon. J.

Darcy: It’s a great pleasure to welcome a guest from New Westminster who is here today. She is a school trustee for school district 40. Her name is Gurveen Dhaliwal. She ran for election to school trustee last fall and was elected by a good margin. She’s doing tremendous work there as part of the team and is one of the key leaders in ensuring that New Westminster school district 40 became the first school district in the province of British Columbia to keep the Period Promise and ensure that there were free menstru- al products for girls in our schools in New Westminster. Welcome, please, Gurveen Dhaliwal. J.

Isaacs:I’m pleased to welcome and introduce Diabetes Canada, who joined me and my colleagues John Rustad, Linda Reid and Shirley Bond for lunch today. We were so pleased to have the opportunity to meet with Russell Wil- liams, senior vice-president of mission, and B.C. advocacy representatives Mario Miceli and Edward Sem.

We heard today that one out of three British Columbians who live with diabetes and prediabetes have an increased risk of stroke, heart attack, kidney disease, amputation and vision loss and that B.C. ’s diverse population of Asian, South Asian, southeast Asian and Indigenous are at increased risk for diabetes. Would the House please join me in welcoming these great advocates who support those living with diabetes and who work to prevent the projected increase for British Columbians. Hon. B.

Ralston:Joining us in the member’s gallery this afternoon is His Excellency Roberto Rodríguez Arnillas, ambassador of Peru to Canada. The ambassador is here in British Columbia to welcome a Peruvian navy tall ship, a training ship that arrives in Vancouver harbour tomorrow. The ambassador will meet with a number of British Colum- bia officials today, including myself, and I will be pleased to visit the ship with him tomorrow evening. Would this House please make the ambassador of Peru feel very welcome here. M. Hunt:I have two introductions.

First of all, throughout the afternoon we’ll see three groups of students from Surrey Christian School in my riding who will be here — part of their social studies. [1:40 p.m.] Also, it’s my pleasure to introduce three members of Wake Up Surrey who are in the House today: Gurpreet Singh Sahota, Sarbjit Singh Sandhu and Monte Ball. These gentlemen have been instrumental in pushing for new tools and strategies to deal with the escalating guns and gang violence in our community. I’ d ask the House to make them all welcome. Hon. D. Eby: Joining us in the House today is Fred Jay.

He’s a constituent of mine from Vancouver–Point Grey, up there in the gallery. He is a director on the Kerrisdale Com- munity Centre board. He also sits on the seniors council for the Kerrisdale Community Centre. He’s very proud of the lunch program at the centre for seniors, which he’s a part of. It runs six days a week, with $58,000 worth of annual subsidies for seniors lunches. Would the House please make Fred Jay feel very welcome. Hon. J. Sims: There are people who work in our offices right here in Victoria who make our life a lot easier. They make sure we go to the places we’re supposed to.

They take care of us. My administrative assistant Holly Hubley is with us in the House today, as well as my executive assistant, Mindy Bansal. Please make them both feel welcome. T. Wat:It is a great pleasure to welcome my two friends from Melbourne, Australia — Zhuofan Zhen and his wife, Qing Lin — as well as two Richmond friends, Weinan Lin and Kitty Huang, to the Legislature. Zhuofan is very actively involved in the Chinese-Australian community in Mel- bourne. He was one of the founding members of the Lions Club of Melbourne Sino Innovation in 2015 and is the club’s current president.

He has come to Vancouver to attend the Vancouver Chinatown Lions Club’s 65th anniversary. 9025

When I visited Melbourne last summer, Zhuofan took me on a tour of the Museum of Chinese Australian History, right in the heart of Chinatown. The museum is housed in a late 19th century five-level warehouse, which showcases the her- itage, history and culture of Australia’s Chinese community. I was very impressed with all of the exhibits and how the museum is managed and showcased to local Australians and tourists very effectively. Zhuofan’s Lions Club is now work- ing with the Museum of Chinese Australian History on a world tour of the stories of Chinese-Australians.

Now that our Ministry of Tourism, Arts and Culture is planning on establishing a Chinese-Canadian museum, we should learn from the successful experience of the Mel- bourne museum, which was established more than 30 years ago, in 1985, and has been running very successfully. Please join me in welcoming my friends from Melbourne and from Richmond. N. Simons: Hon. Members, on behalf of the Speaker, I have the pleasure of welcoming 15 new staff members from the parliamentary education office today.

The mem- ber for Boundary-Similkameen and the member for Saanich North and the Islands had an opportunity, with me, to meet with them. Over the next four months, we expect over 100,000 school children to visit this place from across B.C. and around the world. It will be the responsibility of the summer tour guides and the Parliamentary Players to explain to our visitors about the role of MLAs, the architecture of these beautiful buildings and the history of our province.

Y ou’ll certainly notice the players, as they will be in period costumes, bringing our parliamentary history to life through their portrayals of Nellie Cashman; Queen Victoria; Mary Ellen Smith; Francis Rattenbury; my favourite, Thomas Uphill; and of course, Hamish the stonemason. Joining us in the gallery today are Isabelle Ava-Pointon, Stephen Bagan, Rachelle Bait, Hannah Christensen, Aidan Gerrero, Olive Joiner, Teeana Lackner, Ellen Law, Gabrielle Parent, Douglas Peerless, Regina Rios, Daniel Saretsky, Aaron Smail, Taryn Y oneda and Alex Zhang. Would the House please join….

Well, let’s just all welcome them and wish them a happy summer. Hon. C. James: We have four staff who are visiting us today from the corporate services division of the Ministry of Finance. They are Cindy McKinstry, Debra Janke, Patricia Laird and Saija Poldrugovac. Would the House please wel- come them and also thank them for their commitment to public service on behalf of all British Columbians. [1:45 p.m.] S. Cadieux: I have two friends in the gallery this after- noon, both from the south Island, so I can’t claim credit for them as constituents — but two friends. Charlene Froom and I go way back.

I was going to say we were old friends, and then I realized that that would be insulting to both of us. We are good friends, and our work goes back many years to when I was with the Spinal Cord Injury Organization of B.C. With her is Capt. David Willows. He is a father of a son with a disability. Both are tremendous advocates, and they’ve ramped up their advocacy since the change to the building code in the fall with the change in parking regulations. I would like the House to make them welcome and thank them for their efforts. R. Singh: I have two sets of introductions today.

First, I would also like to welcome the members of the B.C. advocacy group for Diabetes Canada — Russell Williams, Mario Miceli and Ed Sem — who are in the gallery today. We had a very productive meeting with them earlier, and I really want to thank them for their advocacy. Would the House please make them feel very welcome. Also in the gallery is a great friend and activist, a volunteer for not only my community office but also many Surrey offices, Margaret Barron. She’s here in the gallery. She’s a really, really strong supporter. Margaret, I would really like to thank you for all the great work you do.

I would really like the House to welcome her. Hon. D. Donaldson:I have the great pleasure of introdu- cing three family members today who are attending ques- tion period. The first is Anne Donaldson, my wife, from Hazelton, who’s here helping out with taking care of grand- children while our daughter-in-law attends a conference. The second is our daughter-in-law — more like a daughter to us — Cyra Yunkws, who’s a municipal councillor in War- field. She was raised in Hazelton, and she’s also a constitu- ency assistant to the member for Kootenay West.

The third, last but not least, is an extended family member, I’ll say, Renée Paquette, who’s celebrating her 12th birthday today. She’s in the gallery. She’s from Hazelton. Her mother is here as well — Julie Maitland, who is a constituency assistant in Hazelton. Would the House please make all of them welcome. Deputy Speaker:Members, just a reminder that at 1:55 p.m., most cell phones will receive a test alert notification. So don’t panic. It’s just a test alert notification. Introduction and First Reading of Bills BILL M213 — PROHIBITING DRIVING WITH ILLEGAL FIREARMS ACT M.

Hunt presented a bill intituled Prohibiting Driving with Illegal Firearms Act. M. Hunt:I move that a bill intituled Prohibiting Driving with Illegal Firearms Act, of which notice has been given in 9026 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, May 8, 2019

my name on the order paper, be introduced and read for the first time now. The Prohibiting Driving with Illegal Firearms Act ad- dresses the transportation of illegal firearms in British Col- umbia, which is often tied to organized crime. If passed, this bill would amend the Motor Vehicle Act and make it an offence to drive with an illegal firearm on a motorway, an idea that was proposed in the B.C. Task Force on Illegal Firearms report of 2017.

Anyone found guilty of driving in possession of an illegal firearm would face up to six months in prison and fines up to $10,000, in addition to a one-year driver’s licence suspension. This bill addresses concerns raised by our law enforce- ment officers, some of the finest women and men, who work every day to keep us and our loved ones safe. Motion approved. M. Hunt:I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill M213, Prohibiting Driving with Illegal Firearms Act, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25B) LAIDA FALSETTO J. Routledge:Every year the city of Burnaby recognizes one of its citizens for outstanding service to the community. This year it was Laida Falsetto.

Laida teaches at Byrne Creek secondary, where she mentors, leads and champions some of our community’s most vulnerable youth. [1:50 p.m.] The student population come from 80 different countries and speak 70 different languages. More than 50 percent of them do not speak English at home. Ten years ago Byrne Creek discovered that many of their students did not have enough English to graduate, let alone find meaningful employment. So they created PAWS, Paving A Way for Success, that supports refugee students to thrive in Canadian society. Laida became part of it. When she accepted her award, Laida told a story.

She was leading a discussion in PAWS and invited her students to brainstorm the meaning of success. “Owning a car, ” said one. “Owning a house, ” said another, and so it went. She noticed one young man who was not participating in the discussion, so she asked him: “What’s going on?” He replied: “I don’t agree with anything they are saying, I think these

definitions are selfish. ” For him, he said: “Success means going back to my home country to build a school. ” That totally changed the conver- sation. They all started talking about the importance of help- ing others. Laida could have chosen to tell so many other stories, like how she packs food hampers for families in need or how she spends countless hours mentoring the student government. Instead, she chose to tell a story about somebody else, about a student who redefined success and influenced the thinking of his peers.

I would add that that this happened only because she saw him and encouraged him to speak up. That story says a lot about who Laida Falsetto is and why she’s Burnaby’s Citizen of the Y ear. SHERRY ELWOOD L. Reid:I rise today to recognize an outstanding educator. Sherry Elwood’s career in public education spans 36 years, including teacher, school administrator, assistant superin- tendent and superintendent. In each of her roles, she’s been characterized as passionate about public education and courageous and determined in all interactions.

She has modelled relentless dedication and keeping what is best for students at the heart of every discus- sion and every decision. Sherry Elwood has been a superintendent of schools for school district No. 38, Richmond, since 2016. She spent the previous six years in school district 71, Comox, as the superintendent of schools. She was there with former MLA Don McRae. Sherry has over 20 years of progressive, senior adminis- trative leadership within the school system of British Colum- bia.

She has demonstrated an ability to work as a collabor- ative leader, innovator, problem solver and mentor for stu- dents, parents and staff alike. She’s a former president of the British Columbia School Superintendents Association. Richmond is better for her leadership. I wish her many magical moments and much intellectual stimulation in all future endeavours. Sherry is an incredibly bright and talen- ted leader who has set the bar for Richmond. ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT R. Glumac:We have a vast province and a wide diversity of communities and regions. Each one has distinct economic development needs and aspirations.

It’s important to highlight and celebrate the many eco- nomic development achievements across this province. That’s why we are proud to proclaim this week, May 12 to 16, as British Columbia Economic Development Week. There will be events across the province organized by the B.C. Eco- nomic Development Association, including workshops and courses and the release of the Towntalk report, which pres- ents issues facing B.C. communities and solutions recom- mended by peers.

Every day across B.C. local leaders, community organ- izations, local, regional and Indigenous governments work Wednesday, May 8, 2019 British Columbia Debates 9027

to respond with innovation and creativity to the economic development needs of the communities they serve. It’s important that we share the great prosperity of this province that comes from an economy that is strong, innovative and resilient — an economy that takes advantage of emerging opportunities to grow a vibrant tech sector, an economy that directly acknowledges and tackles challenges of climate change, an economy that recognizes and supports the strengths of all sectors.

Our government is committed to creating good jobs in every corner of this province and ensuring that people from every background can reach their full potential. We thank all those working in the economic develop- ment field for their passion and commitment to strength- ening their communities and ensuring prosperity for future generations. [1:55 p.m.] PEACE RIVER AREA GRANDMOTHERS OF MLAs G. Kyllo:A coincidence is an example of two things relat- ing to each other or having some connection that was unex- pected. Today I have a rather interesting coincidence to share with this House.

It begins with my grandmother, Edith Kyllo, an amazing woman who had a significant impact on my life. Born and raised in Vancouver, Edith became a school teacher but always had the desire to be a pioneer. She took a job teaching in Hudson’s Hope, where life was, well, just a bit more primitive. She taught in a one-room schoolhouse with a small living quarters at the back. Grandma lived without electricity, hauled her own water, cut and split her own fire- wood, and spent a lot of time working with her hands.

She taught grades 1 through 8, shaping young minds long before the creation of the term “class size and composition. ” She also helped form the North Peace Historical Society, based in Fort. St. John, and was asked by her friend Marguer- ite Davies and Cora Ventress to collaborate on a book paying tribute to the pioneers of the Peace. In 1973, Edith, Marguerite and Cora co-authoredThe Peacemakers of North Peace, a compilation of history and biographies of pioneers from areas north of Peace River.

What Edith and Marguerite didn’t know at the time was the connection their grandsons would forge decades later, because Marguerite Davies’s grandson sits right beside me in the Legislature every day. What are the chances that of the small percentage of people even elected to this place, their two grandsons would be among them and that they would also happen to be seated next to each other in the people’s House?

It’s a strange coin- cidence, but we both believe our grandmothers would be very proud to see us here, just as we are so very proud of them and their many accomplishments, including co- authoring the bookThe Peacemakers of North Peace. PEERS VICTORIA RESOURCES SOCIETY M. Dean:I’m very proud to rise today to shine a light on some innovative and effective work in our region that sup- ports some of the most vulnerable in our community. Peers, which is an innovative, multiservice grassroots agency, was established in 1995 by, with and for sex workers.

In partnerships, Peers provide an array of outreach and drop-in harm reduction and support services, alongside education and employment training for current and former sex workers. Their night outreach is a community-based ser- vice located on the Victoria stroll, and they also offer an outreach program for men and trans individuals in the sex industry. They also have a bad-date sheet and work with the Victoria police in reporting violence against persons in the sex industry.

Recently they were successful in their applications for three crime prevention and remediation grants to enhance their programs, like their Indigenous SACRED — Indigen- ous sex workers acknowledging, creating and redefining experiential diversity — project, which will offer monthly group meetings that focus on sharing a meal and cultural knowledge in support of a holistic healing model; and their pilot clinical counselling service for those currently or formerly involved in the sex industry who have experienced sexual and/or intimate partner violence.

They’re also going to provide a small business training program, which will provide a flexible option to enhance economic security for women transitioning from the sex industry. The program provides a comprehensive cur- riculum designed to enable participants to launch their own small business. I’ d like to take this opportunity to thank everyone involved with Peers in support of these critical services. PEACE RIVER AREA GRANDMOTHERS OF MLAs D. Davies:I’m honoured today here to offer a bit of a fol- low-up, or maybe

part 2, to my colleague from Shuswap. [2:00 p.m.] My grandmother, Marguerite Davies, was living in Comox as my grandfather was posted there in the air force during the Second World War. After the war, she and her young family headed north, in 1949, after hearing of the many opportunities in the Peace country. She arrived on the train with her family to start a new life in the mostly unheard of village of Fort St. John, population 1,400. Fort St. John was not much more than a main street. If you can believe, there was only one lawn in the whole community, and the only pavement was at the airport.

After being in Comox and from Ontario originally, this was quite differ- ent than what she was used to. My grandmother quickly got engaged in the community. She was active in the Presbyterian Church, the literacy club and the local writers guild, writing poetry and plays and 9028 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, May 8, 2019

winning a provincial award for best original script. Almost all of her writings were to do with the North Peace. In September 1963, a group of residents — including Edith Kyllo, grandmother of my colleague for Shuswap — were interested in preserving the history of the north. They organized themselves as the North Peace Historical Society, and the first meeting was held at my grandparents’ . Y ears later the group built the North Peace Museum, which is still standing today. My grandmother was also a founding mem- ber of the public library as well as an active member of the Women’s Institute.

Over time, my grandmother and the member for Shuswap’s grandmother became good friends. My grandparents were stellar people and dearly loved Fort St. John. With the love of the Peace and its rich history, my grandma wanted to preserve that history and, similarly, so did Edith. Working with some other friends from the area, including Cora Ventress, they worked together by compiling many stories and biographies of the Peace. As mentioned, they created the book in 1973,Peace- makers of the North Peace. It captured our history forever.

But more importantly, it captured the incredible stories that the Peacemakers made that make our community today. As stated, it is quite amazing that here we are 50 years later, my colleague and I, sitting in this chamber, a set of grandchildren from a couple of amazing grandmas that many years ago created an incredible lasting legacy today. Deputy Speaker:Members, generally speaking, props are not allowed to be used in the House. But in this case, both members had the permission of the Chair. Oral Questions ACTION ON GAS PRICES A. Wilkinson:Another day, another day of record gas prices.

Every time this comes up in the media, the Premier seems to go off track and come up with a new excuse for why nothing can be done. In the past 30 days, we’ve catalogued at least eight excuses, none of which have amounted to any- thing in terms of consumer satisfaction or getting a better deal at the pumps. The position he took a year ago was that we’ve talked about a range of options. A very simple question. It should be a straightforward answer. It’s a matter of factual record of what happened a year ago. Premier, what were those options? Hon. J.

Horgan:The opposition didn’t take the opportun- ity to ask me this question yesterday. I would have, at that time, advised them that I spoke with the Prime Minister, the owner of the Trans Mountain pipeline, about getting more refined product into that pipe so that it would, through sup- ply and demand…. Again, a principle not unknown to mem- bers on that side of the House — that an increase in sup- ply would see a decrease in prices. I think that that’s in the interest of the people of B.C., in the interest the people of Canada, and so does the Prime Minister.

Deputy Speaker:The Leader of the Opposition, supple- mental question. A. Wilkinson:Here we go again. Apparently, the Premier didn’t bother to read theGlobe and Mail over the weekend, where Justine Hunter made it very clear what the commer- cial terms are on pipelines. Those who own the pipes do not control what goes into them. The shippers own what’s in the pipe, and those are oil companies controlled by the govern- ment of Alberta, with which the Premier has picked a big fight. So that excuse goes out the window. Premier, you’re continuing to make it up as you go along.

Y ou’ve claimed you have a range of options. A month ago, you said you’ d have your deputy look for options. Now you say you want to get the basic facts straight from the B.C. Util- ities Commission. Why not just make a phone call to Edmonton and ask for the information? [2:05 p.m.] Hon. J. Horgan:It’s news to me that the government of Alberta controls the oil companies that operate there. That’s news to me. I was unaware of that.

If that is in fact true, then I’m sure the Utilities Commis- sion, when they’re laying out a common set of facts so that we don’t have the partisan hectoring we’ve been having over the past number of weeks…. We can start with the same facts, the same concerns, and focus in a united way, as the…. I know the House Leader wants to get in on this as well, but the Leader of the Opposition… Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members, one speaker at a time, please. Hon. J. Horgan:Thank you, hon. Speaker. …sent me a letter not a week and a half ago saying, “Let’s all work together on this, ” and I agreed with him entirely.

But it didn’t last. The sentiment in the letter didn’t last as long as the ink was wet before, again, the partisan hectoring started. I would argue that getting a common set of facts from an independent regulator that will allow British Columbians to understand how we got here, how a 40-cent increase in the price of a litre of gasoline could happen over a number of months without any other intervention…. I think that’s useful information. I thought the Leader of the Opposition would like to see that. Deputy Speaker:The Leader of the Official Opposition on a second supplemental. A.

Wilkinson:Well, let’s get a few basic facts straight. The Premier doesn’t have to hire anybody or pay the Utilities Wednesday, May 8, 2019 British Columbia Debates 9029

Commission to do it. Oil comes out of the ground in Alberta. It goes through a pipeline to B.C. We buy it. Fairly straightforward. Premier, the problem is that the motorists of British Col- umbia…. Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members. Members, let’s listen to the question, please. A. Wilkinson:The drivers, the motorists, people in Brit- ish Columbia who use 80,000 barrels a day of gasoline are waiting for some answers about relief. Y ou turn to them with eight different excuses, nothing of consequence at the pumps, and now the plan, the program, the cabinet-level decision, is: we’ll get the basic facts.

When are drivers going to get some relief from this gov- ernment when you know the only answer is to make peace with Edmonton and cut taxes? Hon. J. Horgan:The party that increased taxes by 15 cents over their time in office is now saying that taxes are the prob- lem. Where were you in 2007? Where were you in 2010? The part that’s absolutely scintillating in that question is the Leader of the Opposition says that it comes out of the ground, goes into a pipe and we buy it. That used to be the case when refined products were on the ascendency rather than on the decline.

What’s coming through that pipeline now, what will be assured to come through the pipeline if it’s twinned, is diluted bitumen, and the last time I checked, not even a car from Quilchena could use diluted bitumen. J. Johal:Now, it turns out that when the pain-at-the- pump Premier told British Columbians a year ago that he was considering a range of options, even a member of his own caucus fell for it. On Monday, the member for Pow- ell River–Sunshine Coast said: “Y ou ask: what did the gov- ernment consider?

I’m not in the cabinet room, but they probably considered every option…and they probably dis- missed them. ” Can the Premier confirm if this is true and tell us what those options were? Hon. J. Horgan:I take counsel and guidance from the member for Powell River–Sunshine Coast all the time. What I will not do is continue to play a partisan finger-pointing game with the official opposition. These are people who were…. Their founding principles are free enterprise. Y ou hear it everywhere they go, “We’re the free enterprise party, ” but not when it comes to being in opposition.

Now it’s: “How can we get a headline, and how can we get a billboard? We’ll use public money. We’ll put up a billboard and blame someone else for market forces. ” The Leader of the Opposition knows that. That’s why he’s tired of this line of questioning. I don’t know why the guy… Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members. Hon. J. Horgan:…from Richmond doesn’t get that as well. Market forces, my friend. We’re working as hard as we can with the Prime Minister. This is an issue of national con- sequence. He understands that. Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members. Hon. J. Horgan:I understand that. Why don’t you?

Deputy Speaker:One speaker at a time. That will help. The member for Richmond-Queensborough on a supple- mental. [2:10 p.m.] J. Johal:The Premier has taken eight different positions on this issue, and it’s simple. Every time he gets pressured by the media, he just makes it up. It’s one conspiracy theory after another. This Premier, for the last couple of weeks, has been boxing with shadows — nothing more, nothing less. Former Premier of Saskatchewan Brad Wall suggested today that if our B.C. Premier wants to find the reason for high gas prices in Vancouver, he should go purchase a mir- ror.

The whole mess is this Premier’s fault and this entire NDP government’s. It was the Premier who said a year ago that he had looked at a range of options, and he was the one who promised relief at the end of the day. What option was the Premier referring to a year ago, and when will he give British Columbians the relief at the pumps that he has promised? Hon. J.

Horgan:As much as I’m reluctant to quote one media source, the Leader of the Opposition already talked about the very capable work done by Justine Hunter in the Globe and Mail over the weekend, where she talked about a range of factors that go into the increase in prices at the pump. I would have thought…. Again, I can’t just shake this from my mind, but I know people on this side of the House, after a decade and a half of hearing that the only people that under- stood the economy were the free enterprisers over there…. Now, all of a sudden, they’re interventionists. They don’t want to have SkyTrain.

They don’t want to have roads in Brit- ish Columbia. They don’t want the resources that come from the pumps… Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members. 9030 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, May 8, 2019

Hon. J. Horgan:…that go to making life better for British Columbians. They want to just eliminate all of that. And they probably want to give… Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members. Hon. J. Horgan:…money back to the richest people in the province as well. I think if there’s anyone that’s at sea and adrift, it’s the people on that side of the House. Y ou have to have a philo- sophical foundation. That’s all you used to be, and now you don’t even have that. Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members, I think it’ll work really better if we listen to each other. That would be a really novel idea.

PROTECTION OF OLD-GROWTH FORESTS A. Olsen:I love the “you started it” response. That always is a very mature thing to say. Port Renfrew, formerly a logging town, has rebranded itself as an ecotourism hot spot. This is driven in large part by the protection of Avatar Grove, an ancient coastal old- growth forest. The community is immensely proud of this. Their region is known internationally, and their economy is now thriving because their remaining ecosystem is intact. But this is at risk. Although Avatar Grove itself is protected, 109 hectares of ancient forest near Port Renfrew has been designated by B.C.

Timber Sales for cutting. The clearcutting will occur within 40 metres of the Juan de Fuca Provincial Park boundary. The citizens of Port Renfrew are frustrated by this gov- ernment’s shortsighted approach. They’re angry that short- term corporate profits are valued more than the long-term local profits. The sound of these ancient giants falling will be heard by the same tourists that travelled from around the world to view the endangered forests. Their stories will be that of sorrow, not of wonder.

To the Minister of Forests, we hear the ministry and Tim- ber Sales may be postponing the auction of old-growth tim- ber in the Premier’s riding. The public wants to know: is this an outright cancellation or a postponement, and if it’s the lat- ter, for how long? Hon. D. Donaldson: I want to just acknowledge the member for Saanich North and the Islands’ question about a very important topic. We’re blessed with amazing forests in this province. There are a variety of perspectives on old-growth management. Our government is committed to protecting the important biodiversity of old-growth forests.

We also recognize the value of old-growth forests as they sustain wildlife, an important part of B.C. ’s natural heritage. We’re also commit- ted to ensuring the continued vibrancy and an innovative forest sector. Over 24,000 people are employed in the coastal forest sector. When it comes to protecting old-growth forests, the Min- ister of Environment and myself met with environmental stakeholders earlier this year. We wanted to hear directly from them as part of our ongoing talks to inform our old- growth plan. In the very near future, we’ll be launching the public engagement for this process.

As far as the Port Ren- frew proposed B.C. Timber Sales cutblocks go, the member is correct. The original timber sale licence comprised seven blocks totalling 109.2 hectares. [2:15 p.m.] Before putting up the sale, B.C. Timber Sales referred first to the Pacheedaht First Nation and conducted field work with that First Nation to identify archaeological values. They conducted environmental assessments to ensure that stream and fish habitat, species-at-risk and bear den assessments were done.

They confirmed that no red- or blue-listed plant communities were identified during the layout and that no legacy trees were identified within the BCTS blocks. Now BCTS is no longer considering advertising this sale in order to engage with the stakeholder, who was inadvertently missed during the initial referral process. Deputy Speaker:The member for Saanich North and the Islands on a supplemental. A. Olsen: Port Renfrew is transitioning to a different approach to harvesting their surrounding resources.

Unfortunately, it’s outside the current forest policy box, because it supports local profits over the long term. They want to harvest the value of living old-growth trees as part of a responsible, transitioning economy, away from death and destruction. As we’ve heard in the tightrope rhetoric here today and in the previous questions from this week in question period, our Forests Minister doesn’t recognize this. Instead, he cites an appalling example of extracting old growth to fund a roof, the roof of a curling rink. This appalling example he used on Monday is absurd, and it’s embarrassing.

It clearly highlights that this government’s definition of managing old growth, as he responded in the first question, is to cut it down and to continue cutting it down until it’s all gone. This is not an eco- nomic vision. It’s shortsighted. It does not support a com- munity, an ecosystem or future generations. I love curling, Mr. Speaker, but I love air and water and living more. The minister recognizes the economic value of liquidating old growth, but when will he recognize the long-term economic value of leaving old-growth trees in the ground? Hon. D.

Donaldson:Well, old-growth forests are not being liquidated on Vancouver Island. We have over 500,000 Wednesday, May 8, 2019 British Columbia Debates 9031

hectares of old-growth forests on the Island, so old growth will not disappear from Vancouver Island. We do recognize the interests of local communities and other stakeholders in old-growth forests that reside outside those protected areas. I would refer the member to the hun- dreds of school children from a neighbouring First Nation who actually use the curling rink facility that I visited up in Port Hardy. We’re committed to protecting old-growth forests, as well as continuing with a vibrant forestry sector — the 24,000 jobs that rely on old-growth forests in this province.

We’re undertaking an old-growth management plan, and we’ll be conducting public engagement soon on that plan. ACTION ON GAS PRICES AND INVESTIGATION OF PRICING PRACTICES S. Bond: A year ago the Premier received a report on gas prices, and here is one of the key findings that he received in that report. “There is no sign of non-competitive or unfair business practices. ” Simply put, the report rules out gouging, yet the Premier continues to rely on this as one of his excuses virtually every single day.

Can the Premier tell us whether he read the report and his view of the facts, about there being no gouging in British Columbia, that he was provided with? Hon. B. Ralston:I will attempt to add to…. Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members, let’s listen to the response, please. Hon. B. Ralston:I will attempt to add to what the Premier has already stated. He’s written a letter to the B.C. Utilities Commission. In fact, in that letter, he remarks that the situ- ation from last year has changed. Ordinarily, there was a gap of the refined price, before taxes, of two to three cents between Edmonton and Alberta.

That gap has now widened to 25 cents in the month of May. That’s a very different situ- ation from the situation that was looked at a year ago. [2:20 p.m.] What the Premier has asked the Utilities Commission is to use their expertise — their subpoena power, if necessary — and to investigate that price gap difference. It would seem, arguably, that that’s a very, very big difference from last year, and the oil companies might have some explaining to do. So that endeavour is underway, and we will see what comes forth from that inquiry. Deputy Speaker: The member for Prince George– Valemount on a supplemental. S.

Bond: We should just repeat the question, in case the minister missed it. The fact of the matter is that the Premier got a report over a year ago — which, presumably, he read — that said there is no gouging. That’s certainly not a question he needs to ask again. What’s completely apparent is that the Premier just con- tinues to make it up day after day. We have no idea wheth- er he read the report or not. In fact, he’s on his eighth pos- ition that he has taken in just the last month, and none of those things will do anything to provide relief at the pump.

In fact, he has already told the commission not to bother looking at taxation. Well, that’s not good enough for British Columbians. It’s time for the Premier to stop blaming everybody else, to look in the mirror and to do something about it. Will the Premier stand up and provide the relief that he promised to British Columbians? Hon. B. Ralston:Well, I think the more prudent course would be to wait for the Utilities Commission to investigate and come back with some answers. Frankly, I would rather take advice…. Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members. The minister will continue. Hon. B. Ralston:Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. I think I would rather take and I think the assembly would be wise to take advice from the Utilities Commission, as opposed to the member for Prince George–Valemount, who clearly has already made up her mind in the absence of any evidence whatsoever. J. Thornthwaite:A year ago the Premier claimed to have reviewed a range of options. A week ago, he assured the public that “I’ve had some of the most capable people” in the province of British Columbia looking at gas prices. Y esterday he finally revealed his solution: ask someone else to review it. Come on, Premier.

When are we going to get relief at the pump? Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members, if you want an answer, we have to be quiet. The minister will continue. Hon. B. Ralston:Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is rather regrettable, I think, that the member who has just asked the question is choosing to denigrate the B.C. Util- ities Commission. I don’t really think that’s an appropriate response. It’s an expert tribunal with subpoena power and expert advice that undoubtedly will get to the bottom of what is, really, a very thorny economic issue. People are looking for 9032 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, May 8, 2019

an explanation for the increase in gas prices — 40 cents in the Lower Mainland — of which only one cent was an increase in taxes. Y et we hear again this afternoon, from the Leader of the Opposition, the same proposition… Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members. Hon. B. Ralston:…the so-called plan that he put forward before. Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Let’s have order. The minister will con- tinue. Hon. B. Ralston:Well, clearly, the Leader of the Oppo- sition just acknowledged he has no solution. Frankly, Mr. Speaker, that’s hardly surprising.

A Sauder School, University of B.C., business professor described this so-called Liberal plan as “a completely inef- fective proposition. It makes no economic sense, ” yet he was just repeating that a few minutes ago. That’s where they’re at. That’s why the Premier has sent this matter to the B.C. Utilities Commission. We will wait for the answer. Deputy Speaker:The member for North Vancouver–Sey- mour on a supplemental. [2:25 p.m.] J. Thornthwaite:The Premier, and now this minister, just seem to be making it up as they go along, and British Col- umbians are paying the price at the pump.

The Premier has had at least eight different positions in the last month alone. The only position that my constituents care about is when he said: “If we’re in a position to provide relief, we’ll do that. ” What was the Premier talking about, and when is he going to provide relief at the pumps? Hon. B. Ralston:Well, this quotation from a University of B.C. business professor is not made up. It’s a real quotation from a real person, a very authoritative person, saying about the so-called Liberal plan: “ A completely ineffective proposi- tion.

It makes no economic sense whatsoever. ” The member has accused me of making things up. Let’s hear what the “BCBusiness report card” said.B.C. Business, an authoritative journal here in the province, published monthly, said, and let me quote from that report card: “It seems pretty clear that this is a desperate party doing desper- ate things… ” Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members. Hon. B. Ralston:“ …like putting up billboards rallying against the carbon tax that their party started. ” And they gave them a grade of F-minus. No wonder.

ACTION ON GAS PRICES AND GOVERNMENT POSITION IN ALBERTA COURT CASE M. de Jong:This really remarkable discrepancy has aris- en between what the Premier is saying to British Colum- bians about this very troubling issue and what he and his government say when they are in a legal setting, where they’re obliged to tell the truth. The discrepancy is really remarkable. Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members, let’s hear the question, please.

M. de Jong: To British Columbians, he says: “The gas companies are gouging you, these evil energy companies. ” The Premier didn’t have any problem being on the stage with one of them a few weeks ago, by the way. “These evil energy companies are gouging you. ” But when he’s in court in Alberta, swearing affidavits to explain the situation we’re in, how does he explain it?

Well, fuel prices are about “availability of supply, international market pricing, exchange rates, the cost of refining crude oil, the cost of transporting gasoline to retail outlets, federal and provincial taxes, as well as political and social instability. ” Y ou know the one word that’s not in the affidavit? Any- thing about price-fixing and price gouging. Nothing in the government’s own legal documentation. When is the Premier going to stop saying one thing to the Alberta court and something completely different to British Columbians? Hon. B. Ralston:What the Premier has said clearly in his letter to the B.C.

Utilities Commission, a public docu- ment, is: “British Columbians want to know why refining margins are so much higher than in other parts of the coun- try. ” Refining margins are “more than double the Canadian average and higher than any other city in North America. This suggests that producers are realizing a significant addi- tional profit margin for fuel sold in Metro Vancouver com- pared to other jurisdictions. This is not acceptable, and Brit- ish Columbians want answers. ” That’s what the Premier said here in a public document. M. de Jong: Y ou know what British Columbians want?

They want their Premier to stop saying one thing in a court in Alberta and a completely different thing to British Colum- bians here at home. I always find it curious when one of the ministers from the cabinet has to stand up and begin his answer with “what the Premier really meant, ” or words to that effect. The Premier started a fight. He’s now in court trying to Wednesday, May 8, 2019 British Columbia Debates 9033

extricate him and, more importantly, British Columbians from the ill effects of that fight. He has got officials on behalf of British Columbia swearing affidavits about what contrib- utes to the cost of fuel in British Columbia. [2:30 p.m.] They are swearing documents and filing them in court in pursuit of that application, and not once do they mention anything about price gouging. Y et the Premier insists and persists in trying to persuade British Columbians that they are the victims of price-fixing and price gouging.

When is he going to come clean with British Columbians, stop saying one thing to Alberta courts and something completely dif- ferent to British Columbians? Hon. B. Ralston:Always nice to hear the come-clean metaphor trotted out once again. Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members. Let’s listen to the answer, please. Hon. B. Ralston:The people on the other side are really settled into opposition when you start using the come-clean metaphor. This member has been around here long enough to reflect on the fact…. I think he should really reconsider his com- ments. I was quoting a letter written by the Premier.

So to suggest that, somehow, my words are at variance with those of the Premier…. This is a letter written by the Premier. Why are we in court in Alberta? We are not taking the advice of the Leader of the Opposition, who said: “Do noth- ing. Don’t stand up for British Columbians. ” We’re in court in Alberta standing up for British Columbians, and we will continue to do so. ACTION ON GAS PRICES P .

Milobar:Well, it’s unfortunate that the minister has to read from a letter of the Premier and the Premier would not answer the question, because British Columbians are paying the highest gasoline prices and the highest gas taxes in North America. That is a fact. The minister keeps offering up all sorts of solutions. Earli- er in the week, the minister suggested we should all go out and buy a Costco membership to be able to afford to buy fuel at the pump. That was a really good one too.

We have the government in court, saying, “Don’t send us more oil, ” and we have the government in court, saying: “Y ou have to send us more oil. ” We have a government that says that CleanBC is going to get us off of fuel, and we have a Premier saying he needs a bigger pipe to try to get more fuel here. The govern- ment needs to figure out what exactly it is that they need. We have the Premier saying that he now needs the Util- ities Commission to tell him how the market works, yet in their filings…. They didn’t seem to need the Utilities Com- mission for the filing in the Alberta court.

Again, this Pre- mier is promising, over and over again…. I will quote him. He says: “If we’re in a position to provide relief, we’ll do that. ” Again, that was a year ago. What exact options was the Premier looking at a year ago that he’s refused to answer with endless questions now to provide to the public an insight into what the government was actually looking at for relief for people at the pumps? Just one option — one option — that the Premier was even looking at would be so helpful. Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Let’s be quiet. Hon. B.

Ralston:This government has pursued an afford- ability agenda in our last budget. By the end of this year, Brit- ish Columbians will pay no MSP premiums — a tax break of $900 per individual, $1,800 for a family, the biggest single tax break in the history of British Columbia. Eliminated tolls on bridges — the member from Abbotsford should be happy about that. Eliminated interest on student loans. Eliminated PharmaCare deductibles for up to a quarter of a million people here in British Columbia. Free bus passes. I could go on. There’s so much more.

There’s so much more. [End of question period.] Point of Privilege (continued) M. Polak: I rise on behalf of the member for Prince George–Mackenzie to provide a reply to the point of priv- ilege raised by the Minister of Justice and Attorney General. [2:35 p.m.] The Minister of Justice and Attorney General, “the Attor- ney, ” has raised a point of privilege pursuant to Standing Order 26. In his submission on May 6, 2019, he alleges that the member for Prince George–Mackenzie, “the member, ” deliberately misled the House in a statement delivered Monday, April 29, 2019.

On April 29, 2019, the Attorney rose at the end of the day, just prior to adjournment, to reserve his right to raise a mat- ter of privilege. Standing Order 26 requires that he do so at his earliest opportunity. I submit that his earliest opportun- ity was at the beginning of the afternoon sitting. Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members, let’s listen to the reply. Please continue. Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members, let’s listen to the reply, please. Member. 9034 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, May 8, 2019

M. Polak:On April 30, 2019, the Attorney made a sub- mission that fell far short of the requirements under Stand- ing Order 26. Indeed, the submission failed to even mention Standing Order 26. As I understand it, the April 30, 2019, submission was not provided to the House in written form, nor did it contain the motion that the Attorney intends to move, should the Chair find a prima facie case has been established. Both of these elements are required under Standing Order 26, and I provide reference toParliamentary Practice in B.C., fourth edition, pages 64 and 65.

On May 1, 2019, I advised the House that in the absence of a point of privilege as defined by Standing Order 26, I saw no reason for the member to submit a response. Con- sequently on May 2, 2019, the Attorney advised the House that he would make another submission. He provided that submission on May 6, 2019, a full week after the statement made by the member. I draw the Speaker’s attention to the decision of Speaker Schroeder. I won’t read the entire decision here. It’s reported in the B.C.Journals, 1982, November 25, 26, pages 15 and 16.

It relates to a member’s failure to raise a point of privilege at the earliest opportunity. Speaker Schroeder concludes, in part: “There is no doubt that the onus on the member raising a matter of privilege is a heavy one, but the Chair has no authority to relax these rules. ” I submit that the Chair should not allow this matter to proceed, as the Attorney did not make a full submission consistent with Standing Order 26 until May 6, 2019, a full week after the statement in question.

Should the Speaker, however, be satisfied that the Attor- ney raised his point of privilege consistent with the require- ments of Standing Order 26, I ask that he consider my sub- missions respecting the substance of the Attorney’s com- plaint. In order to succeed, the Attorney must present a prima facie case that the member not only misled the House but did so deliberately.

It is not sufficient to present facts that are in dispute.Parliamentary Practice in British Colum- bia, fourth edition, page 351, in quotingBeauchesne’s, fourth edition, at citation 113, states: “ A dispute arising between two members, as to the allegations of fact, does not fulfil the conditions of parliamentary privilege. ” It goes on to say: “However aggrieved a member may feel, this does not per- mit the Chair to extend the law of parliamentary privilege. ” In another decision of Speaker Schroeder, in B.C.Journals, April 13, 1982, page 41, he says: “It might be appropriate to observe that in this chamber, by its very nature, countless disputes relating to allegations of fact will arise and with great frequency.

To routinely convert those disagreements into what amounts to a charge of deliberately misleading the House would be contrary to well-established traditions observed throughout all parliaments. This tradition states that all hon. members will accept the word of all other hon. members, a tradition which I commend to this House. ” Considering the matter at hand, given the member’s unique knowledge and experience, there is even more reason to accept his statements.

The authorities make special note of a member’s statements respecting their own personal exper- ience.Beauchesne’s Parliamentary Rules and Forms, fourth edition, citation 145, page 126, states: “It has been formally ruled by Speakers in the Canadian Commons that a state- ment by an hon. member respecting himself and peculiarly within his own knowledge, must be accepted, but it is not unparliamentary to temperately criticize statements made by a member as being contrary to the facts, but no imputation of intentional falsehood is permissible. ” [2:40 p.m.] Finally, in the case that there remains any doubt, the member stands by his statement of April 29, 2019.

I will provide the Speaker with a statutory declaration sworn by the member in support of this submission, which I will read now, on behalf of the member for Prince George–Mackenzie. “When I served as B.C. ’s Solicitor General, I was briefed with re- spect to numerous ongoing domestic, national and international in- vestigations related to organized crime, homicide, drug trafficking and money laundering, including E-pirate investigations. These in- vestigations had been ongoing since before 2014.

Some of these in- vestigations were initiated as a result of intelligence gathered at B.C. casinos, including videos later released to the media and subsequently referred to by the Minister of Justice and Attorney General, the Attor- ney. “The joint illegal gaming investigations team was established by the B.C. Liberal government to address the issues we were well aware of around illegal gaming. This included money laundering.

As B.C. ’s Solicitor General, I was briefed on at least two occasions regarding ongoing complex international investigations by this unit. “Based on my extensive experience as a criminal investigator and a supervisor and manager of major, complex criminal investigations, I believe the Attorney failed to respect the need for strict confidenti- ality pertaining to an ongoing criminal investigation.

All information must be held in confidence until a prosecution and any related ap- peals have concluded. “In making my statement in the Legislature on April 29, 2019, I was aware that the report released by the Attorney General in September of 2017 contained a strict confidentiality clause. It stated: ‘This report is private and confidential. It is not intended for general circulation or publication.

For certainty, this report may not be dis- closed, copied, quoted or referred to in whole or in part, whether for the purposes of litigation, disciplinary proceedings or otherwise, without our prior written consent in each specific instance. ’ “In September 2017, the Attorney released the MNP report dated July 26, 2016, and publicly commented about an ongoing investiga- tion. I was aware, for the reasons stated in paragraph 4, that the report was not intended for public release. Not long after that, federal pro- secutors announced they would not be proceeding with the prosecu- tion of a high-profile case.

Based on my knowledge and experience, I concluded the release of the MNP report and the comments made by the Attorney contributed to the failure of this prosecution. ” Considering this submission, along with the attached stat- utory declaration provided by the member, I respectfully submit that the Attorney’s application must fail. Hon. M. Farnworth:I thank the member opposite, the Opposition House Leader, for her submission. I would respectfully submit that this is more than just an everyday Standing Order 26 decision, but rather…. Interjection. Wednesday, May 8, 2019 British Columbia Debates 9035

Hon. M. Farnworth:Excuse me. I have the floor. Thank you very much. Point of Order M. Polak:I do not recall, upon close inspection of Stand- ing Order 26, any provision for another submission on behalf of the member, the Minister of Justice and Attorney General, whether it be from the House Leader or anyone else. I’m not aware of any provision in Standing Order 26 that would allow for this. Deputy Speaker:The Chair will listen and hear both sides and will make a deliberation after we hear the comments. The Chair has the discretion to hear both sides, and then we’ll make the decision after that. M.

Polak:The submission of the Minister of Justice and Attorney General was made under Standing Order 26. I have made my submission and response, under Standing Order 26. The member just rose to say he had a further submission. I am not aware of anything in the standing orders that would allow the member to do so. Deputy Speaker:As I stated earlier, the Chair has the dis- cretion to hear from the other members, and the Chair will make the decision afterwards. [2:45 p.m.] Point of Privilege (continued) Hon. M.

Farnworth:The point I was wanting to make was that the comments, the allegations, made by both the Opposition House Leader, in her remarks, and the remarks under question by the member for Prince George–Macken- zie are not just what one would traditionally characterize in this House as a disagreement between members but, rather, a direct impugning of the actions of the Attorney General, who is unique amongst members in this House, in particular being a member of the executive council, whose role has a dual function — that of a minister but that of also the chief Attorney for the province of British Columbia.

When that kind of impugning takes place, I believe that it is more than just to say: “Oh, it was too late. ” I think that it deserves full and complete consideration, given the import- ance of the integrity of that office. Deputy Speaker:Thank you, Members. The Chair will take this under advisement and will come back and inform the House about its decision. Orders of the Day Hon. M. Farnworth:In this chamber, I call continued debate on the estimates of the Ministry of Finance. In the Douglas Fir Room, Committee A, I call continued debates on the estimates of the Ministry of Education.

In the Birch Room, Committee C, I call for debate of the estimates of the Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing. Committee of Supply ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF FINANCE (continued) The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); S. Chandra Herbert in the chair. The committee met at 2:50 p.m. On Vote 25: ministry operations, $265,327,000 (continued). A. Weaver:This is for the benefit of the children in the gallery from, I believe, Surrey Christian School. What we’re doing here in the Legislature is debating estimates for the Ministry of Finance.

It’s a time for opposition MLAs, the Lib- erals or the Greens here, to pose questions to the minister about various budgetary issues that are related to her file. I’ll be asking about some finance questions with respect to nat- ural gas royalties. The reason why I’m posing these to the minister is that — I did ask last time — the deep-well royalty credit program is actually administered by the Ministry of Finance. The qual- ified wells receive these credits automatically, and they don’t need to apply separately.

The credit was first created in 2003, expanded in 2014, and in last year’s public accounts, the unclaimed balance of deep- well credits totalled $2.59 billion. A further $3.5 billion has already been cashed in to reduce royalties that would other- wise have been payable. This program has reduced gas pro- ducers’ existing and future royalty liability to the Crown by nearly $6 billion. My questions in this area are this: how many deep-well credits were issued over the past year and to whom? Hon. C. James:The member asked how many deep-well credits.

We don’t have the information around the break- down of which are new credits and which are continuing credits with us, but I’m happy to get that information for the member of which are new. We don’t have that breakdown with us, and we’ll get that information. [2:55 p.m.] On page 120, it identifies the number for new, and that would be $383 million. Then the identifier — the member asked how many and who got them — is personal tax infor- mation, so we can’t provide that. But we’re happy to get the information and get it back to the member around the num- ber of new credits for this year. A. Weaver: Further on….

I suspect I’ll get a similar 9036 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, May 8, 2019

answer, and I welcome the information at a later date. How many deep-well credits have been issued since 2014 and to whom? Hon. C. James:We’ll add that to the information for the member. We don’t have that information with us. A. Weaver: My question, then, is: why is there not a standard public disclosure of these credits and royalties that are received? There is, for example, for stumpage fees in the province, under the harvest billing system. Why are we not making public the royalty credits that are being claimed here? Hon. C.

James:This credit, the deep-well credit, fits under FOI, and under FOI, we can’t release taxpayer information. I can’t give an explanation around why it would be different, as the member talks about, in stumpage. But the requirement is under FOI to protect individual taxpayer information, which would include, of course, the names and the identifiers. A. Weaver: The inconsistency, as was noted, is with respect to the harvest billing system, so perhaps we could explore that at some other date. What’s the total value of deep-well credits that are still out- standing and that could be claimed against? Hon. C.

James:As the member pointed out, $2.6 billion in ’17-18. The ’18-19 numbers get reported out inPublic Accounts. That tracking is just being done now, and they get reported out inPublic Accounts. A. Weaver:My final question is with respect to FOI, free- dom-of-information, requests that went to the Ministry of Finance. The file number, for reference, is FIN-2019-90584. This was a freedom-of-information request put in by an independent person outside of the Legislature.

What was being requested there was a list showing the total royalty credits granted to each company that applied for such credits in the most recent fiscal year. Now, the freedom-of-information requests from the Min- istry of Energy and Mines and from the Ministry of Finance provided completely different answers. The Ministry of Energy and Mines had no issue and provided, actually, the detailed credits, by whom and to whom,

whereas the Min- istry of Finance withheld all information. [3:00 p.m.] My question is: why is there a discrepancy between infor- mation we’re getting from the Ministry of Energy and Mines versus the Ministry of Finance? Hon. C. James:The FOI request that the member is refer- ring to was asking about the infrastructure royalty credits. The infrastructure royalty credits actually have a provision where when someone applies for the credit, they give per- mission for their information to be shared.

That’s why Energy and Mines was able to share the information, because the infrastructure royalty credits have that applica- tion for the individuals when they apply. So that’s, obviously, a different program than the deep-well credits. A. Olsen:I just have one question for the minister. Prop- erty-assessed clean energy, which is commonly known as PACE, is an innovative financing tool which building owners and developers can use to upgrade their buildings’ energy performance, install renewable energy systems and reduce resource consumption with the financing paid through their property tax bill.

Programs like this have been in place since 2009 in the United States and are currently under development in Alberta and elsewhere in the country. The city of Port Moody recently asked the provincial government to look into legislative changes to allow the city to implement their own similar program. It’s clear that the climate change crisis will require us to make significant changes, not only to the way we do things. Reducing the upfront barrier of costs would not only help people who retrofit their homes on their energy costs but would also help us to reach our goal of reaching the targets on carbon emissions.

The UBCM passed a resolution asking the government to change the Community Charter to enable municipalities to do this. So I’m just asking the minister. Municipalities are asking for the tools, and we need to do things differently. Has the minister considered implementing an innovative finan- cing tool such as PACE to empower residents and municipal governments to achieve these outcomes? Hon. C. James: Thank you to the member for raising the question. I think, as the member will probably know, any changes to the Community Charter or the Vancouver Charter sit with the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.

I certainly know they review all of the motions that come forward from UBCM, and they’ d be reviewing this piece. As the member points out well, CleanBC does have, in fact, a commitment to looking at net-zero building code applications for all new buildings and to looking at retrofits. Certainly, the Ministry of Finance would be involved in any of those discussions, and all creative ideas and approaches are being looked at. I’ll certainly have that conversation as well. I’ll pass on the conversation with the Minister of Municipal Affairs, but I’m sure there’s the opportunity to ask that question there as well.

But I’m happy to engage in taking a look at the ideas and the program that came forward. [3:05 p.m.] S. Furstenau:I also have a question for the minister. It’s a question that I actually asked about last year, so I’m revisiting it. In my riding, there is the Cowichan Bio-Diesel Co-op. Wednesday, May 8, 2019 British Columbia Debates 9037

They sell a variety of biodiesels with different levels of biodiesel generated from cooking oil. In some cases, the diesel can be mixed with 5 percent of that. There is a 100 percent biodiesel option available, which is a carbon- neutral, carbon-free biodiesel. We want to, clearly, provide incentives to people to use this kind of fuel in their vehicles, so I’m revisiting the question that I had last year, which was about the carbon tax continuing to be applied to this 100 percent biodiesel. Interesting to note, Cowichan Bio-Diesel actually just completed an audit for the Ministry of Finance.

In that audit, they were able to clearly identify exactly the percentage of biodiesel in all of their fuels, including in their 100 percent fuels, which has often been the reason stated for why the car- bon tax can’t be removed from the 100 percent biodiesel. But in this case, they’ve demonstrated quite clearly that they are able to identify exactly which fuel that is. The question is: can we hope to see the removal of the car- bon tax from the 100 percent biodiesel? Hon. C. James:Thank you for the question and the con- tinued advocacy on behalf of what is a unique company, no question, in Cowichan.

And I think that’s part of the chal- lenge, as others catch up to the work that’s being done. The member talked about the identification that the company has done that isn’t practised across the industry and across other examples of biofuel. That then creates the challenge. That’s the challenge of putting together a program for, in fact, one company that’s done the work around the measurement and other companies haven’t. That makes it complex. Given all of that, there’s no question that we’re continuing to look at how we can incent the use of biofuels, including 100 percent, of course, biofuel.

We’ll consider that as part of budget discussions and happy to have further conversations. Happy to receive the information, as well, from the company around the work that they’ve done. T. Redies:Good afternoon, Minister and staff. Thank you again for giving us this opportunity to ask questions of your ministry. [3:10 p.m.] I’m going to start with some general questions around tax- ation. My first question is: can the minister tell us how many people of the roughly 5½ million people in this province actually pay tax? Hon. C. James: Perhaps the member could tell us what kind of tax.

I mean, there are a variety of taxes out there. There are a variety of taxes, so I wonder if the member could be a bit more specific. T. Redies: I’m actually referring to the people who file income taxes and pay tax. Hon. C. James:There are a couple of different numbers. One would obviously be the number of people who file taxes and then the number of people who pay taxes. We’re just gathering that information, and we’ll be able to get that back to the member. T. Redies: All right. There are a number of questions I have from there.

Perhaps while you’re gathering that information, I’ d like to know from the minister how many people under her tax policy are actually going to be paying lower tax and how many people are going to be paying higher tax. [3:15 p.m. - 3:20 p.m.] Hon. C. James:Just on the first question that the mem- ber asked and quick work by staff. The number of tax filers…. Now, remember, 2016 is the most recent year that we would have information on, of course, because you’re always behind with CRA. The number of tax filers in 2016 was 3.748 million, and the number of people who paid taxes was 2.548 million.

Then the member asked about individual taxpayers and how many individual taxpayers would be paying more tax and how many would be paying less tax. Obviously, we don’t do that kind of analysis for individuals. That’s a much more in-depth process, and there are so many different rationales and reasons for people paying increases in taxes. For example, their wages have gone up, and they’re receiving more pay. All of those factors go into account. What we do — I think the member can refer to it at page 117 of the budget — is look at the brackets of family income.

As the member can see, it’s $30,000, $60,000, $80,000 and $100,000. We do take a look at the net tax that that family would have paid, as the member can see, in 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019, and then when policies are all fully implemented. For example, the child benefit doesn’t kick in until 2020. So when it says “fully implemented, ” it would mean that for all the three years, the policies would be fully implemented. I think the member can see in each of those years the savings that are there for families when it comes to paying taxes.

For example, with an $80,000 family income, they would have paid $5,637 in 2016. When the policies are fully implemen- ted, they’ll pay $3,239. That just gives the member an idea. I think the member can see the numbers that are there. T. Redies:I presume that for budget purposes, you must know how many families are in those categories. If so, could you share that with us? [3:25 p.m.] Hon. C. James: We’ll gather that information and get it to the member. Obviously, it’s different with each family, so again, you run into the challenges of determining individual families, but there will be some general numbers.

Certainly, there are numbers, obviously, that are used for programs, when you’re developing programs. So we can get some gen- eral numbers, but it may take a bit for the member. 9038 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, May 8, 2019

T. Redies:Thank you, Minister. It will be interesting to get that information. I wonder if the minister might be able to explain to us, or at least provide a dollar number, the increased taxation on businesses and families since the government took office to the end of 2022, the fiscal plan. [3:30 p.m.] [J. Isaacs in the chair.] Hon. C. James:If the member looks on page 129 in the budget, it has the share of total nominal GDP . That number would include the measures, as the member was talking about, that have been implemented. But it’s also important to note that it includes growth.

That would be included in those numbers as well. I think the member can see that there are adjustments that occur. If we start at 2014-2015, you’re looking at 19, 19.1, 19.5 percent; in 2017-18, 18.4; updated forecast, 19.2; then budget estimate ’19, continuing on again through the plan to 18.7. T. Redies:We actually did the specific calculation of all the 19 new and increased taxes. We may have some round- ing errors and maybe a little bit of an assumption here and there, but our total came to about $13.7 billion from the time this government took office to 2022. Does that sound about right? Hon. C.

James: Again, I can’t judge the member’s num- bers. If the member wants to share them, we can take some time to go through. But again, I can’t judge the member’s estimates, what was included and what wasn’t, whether growth was included, whether MSP premiums that were pre- viously paid were included. All of those numbers need to be calculated as well. T. Redies:What I can tell you is that it actually includes all of the 19 new or increased taxes that the government has implemented, or will implement, from the time they took office to 2017. I’m happy to share that with you.

Could you perhaps give us a sense of how much of the new taxation is being borne by businesses and corporations in this province? [3:35 p.m. - 3:40 p.m.] Hon. C. James:I think the largest piece, obviously, is the employer health tax that has been introduced. I think the members know the number, $1.95 billion, coming in on the employer health tax.

I think it’s important to note, as we’ve talked about — and I know we went through this in estimates last year as well — that that does not include the savings from MSP for all the employers who already pay medical services premiums, who have that savings — the 50 percent and the 50 percent and then full savings as of January. That’s the largest piece com- ing in when it comes to measures in the budget. Then, of course, there are measures on the other side of the ledger.

Again, you have to take into account both of those: the small business corporate tax rate April 1 of this year; the elimination of PST on electricity. That was com- pleted. And then remember in Budget 2019, as well, there were the corporate income tax reductions that we’re doing in partnership with the federal government, which is about $800 million, as well, in reductions. All of those have to be taken into account when the mem- ber is taking a look at the costs coming in or revenue as a share of the economy. Those pieces all have to be added in. T. Redies:What about the corporate income tax?

Is the minister aware of how much businesses pay in terms of per- centage on the carbon tax and property tax? Hon. C. James:We don’t break down the carbon tax rev- enue. It’s not broken down by businesses and individuals. On the non-residential property tax piece, that would be $1.249 billion, but there’s been no change to that for businesses. There have been no changes in the property tax. T. Redies:Can the minister tell us the exact amount of new taxation that will be borne by property owners in total since the government came to power and through to 2022? [3:45 p.m.] Hon. C.

James:The three pieces that have changed since we became government are all targeted measures. I think that’s the important piece to mention first. These do not apply to all British Columbians. They’re very targeted meas- ures. They include the speculation tax, the additional school tax on houses worth more than $3 million and the increase in the foreign buyer tax.

On the budget, the speculation tax, as the member knows, is expected to bring in $185 million, the additional school tax on houses worth more than $3 million is expected to bring in $200 million, and the foreign buyers increase, so the amount of increase, is expected to bring in additional $40 million in the change. T. Redies:Minister, the reason why I’m asking these spe- cific questions is that I think it’s really important that the government understands where its revenue is coming from and, in particular, whether or not it’s disproportionately bur- dening one group over another.

We remain a bit perturbed on this side of the House with respect to what we think is a disproportionate burden on the job creators of this province, who I think are carrying prob- ably three-quarters of the additional taxation costs that this government has implemented. I’ll look forward to getting the additional information that the minister has indicated that she will provide us. At this point in time, our colleague the member for Delta South would like to ask a few questions. Wednesday, May 8, 2019 British Columbia Debates 9039

I. Paton:B.C. has been hit with an abundance of new taxes since government changed. Agriculture has been espe- cially hit. I’m dealing all the time, in the past two years, with farmers institutes, with co-ops, Cattlemen’s Association, B.C. Agriculture Council, and they’re extremely upset about the taxes that have been implemented, especially on the agri- cultural industry. I would call it the triple whammy when you talk about farmers and ranchers and processors trying to deal with a carbon tax hike, employer health tax and min- imum wage going up.

I would like to quickly just quote some figures from a greenhouse company in my riding of Ladner called West- coast Vegetables. It’s a very, very large greenhouse operation owned by two brothers and locally. They live right in my town. They operate this greenhouse operation. [3:50 p.m.] Their

summary of some expenses coming up from 2018 to 2019, the increase for one year, from one year to the next…. Carbon tax, taking into consideration the full 80 percent rebate on natural gas, will add $14,000. The employer health tax of 1.95 percent on their operation will add $96,000. And a minimum-wage increase, because they have a great num- ber of employees, will add $455,000 to their operation. So a one-year increase to this greenhouse in Ladner will be $565,000 for this year over last year.

To quote from the two brothers: “We have seen slight decreases year after year in our prices due to increased com- petition from Mexico and California. ” They go on to say: “We have also seen our costs of packaging, corrugate and greenhouse supplies increasing due to exchange rate, resin costs, etc. Unfortunately, we are unable to pass on these cost increases to our customers.

It is no wonder the vegetable greenhouses are switching to cannabis. ” Did the Agriculture Minister consult with the Finance Minister, advising her of these major impacts that would be placed upon farmers, ranchers, greenhouse operators and processors in B.C.? Hon. C. James: Thank you to the member for the ques- tion. Whether it’s the minimum-wage increase or whether it’s any government program that has been brought forward, those are thorough discussions around the cabinet table, and those are discussions that would include all the ministers.

It’s important to make sure that all of those issues are looked at, and we take competitiveness seriously. But we do, as a government, take a look at competitiveness when it comes to businesses. We take a look at industries. That’s why we have reduced the small business tax rate. That’s why we got rid of the PST on electricity — a piece that was raised with us by business to be able to make sure that they remain competitive.

It’s part of the reason that we’re also looking at the issues of housing and child care — again, because many employers have come to us to say that’s one of their biggest challenges when it comes to recruitment and retention, when it comes to workers: being able to provide those supports. All of those supports are put in place. I certainly know that the member will have had the oppor- tunity, I’m sure, to be able to ask questions in the estimates of Agriculture. But I know the Minister of Agriculture is always looking at opportunities to be able to address competitive- ness and to support the industry.

I think the industry knows, clearly, they have a very good advocate there. I. Paton:I have some figures here that are quite astound- ing, affecting agriculture and ranching in this province, based on just three of the many taxes that have been tacked on since the change in government a couple of years ago. Now, there’s a farming family in Delta called Felix Farms, and they go back to the 1800s, having arrived in Delta, the Guichon family. They farm roughly 800 acres of potatoes and different other crops in Delta, as well as some land that they own up in the Abbotsford area. This is quite astounding.

I asked them just yesterday if they could give me a quote of the cost of fuel to run their equipment on their tractors for this upcoming year, and they have kept track of this. They quoted that in 2017, their fuel costs to run their tractors, their trucks, their forklifts, etc., on the farm, was $231,000. Quite astounding. I don’t think people would even imagine that much to fuel up all your tractors. [3:55 p.m.] Of course, at this time of year, the tractors are running 16 to 20 hours a day, with this good weather. In 2018, their fuel costs went up to $282,000 in one year.

And the projection for 2019 for diesel, gasoline and propane on the Felix Farms farm in Delta is going to be $340,000 to run all their tractors, trucks, forklifts, etc., on their farm. As we know, the agriculture industry makes a great deal of use, obviously, of diesel, gasoline, propane and, of course, natural gas. The greenhouse industry lives and thrives on natural gas to heat their buildings. The poultry industry thrives on natural gas to heat their buildings to keep the chicks and the birds warm in the wintertime. Including the mushroom industry…. Agriculture is being hit hard.

Fuel costs — everything related to farming requires fuel, from their vehicles to run- ning irrigation pumps. The Premier suggested a range of options to deal with rising fuel costs. What options are being considered for farmers in the 2019 growing and har- vest season? Hon. C. James:I think we could go back through question period again, as we’ve done. The very specific question has come up in question period for the last number of days, so I think the member knows the responses, clearly. Are the Premier and his government concerned about what we’re seeing when it comes to the price of gas? Y es, we are.

That’s why we’ve referred it to the Utilities Commission to be able to do an independent investigation of the issue. I. Paton:I just have a couple more questions. 9040 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, May 8, 2019

One of the most respected agriculturists in B.C. is a gen- tleman named Murray Driediger. We’ve all heard of Driedi- ger Farms, of course, up in Langley. But Murray Driediger, actually, is the chief executive officer of BCfresh, a producer- owned marketing and distribution company for vegetable farmers. It’s located in Delta. It’s a huge warehouse. Just about all the vegetables grown in British Columbia — pota- toes — are all boxed, washed, packaged, graded on farms and brought to BCfresh. From there, they’re shipped out to all the grocery stores and the wholesalers.

I’ d like to just read out a little quote fromBusiness in Van- couver from Mr. Driediger. “Mr. Driediger has not yet done a full calculation of how much all the new federal and provincial tax hikes and other measures will cost his company, BCfresh.

He just knows it’s going to affect the com- pany’s competitiveness and result in having to pass on escalating costs to consumers. ” Now, to quote Murray Driediger: “‘It’s unbelievable that both the provincial and federal government have literally been dumping costs onto business at the levels that they have and expect us to remain competitive, ’ he said. ‘These are moneys that we use to modernize to ensure that we remain competitive, and they’re doing everything they can to throw sand in the gears. ’ “The biggest, most immediate tax hit will come from a new payroll tax that is being foisted onto employers, from businesses to school districts, to replace the Medical Services Plan.

BCfresh covers MSP premiums for its 24 employees. ‘That used to cost us about $15,000 a year, ’ Driediger said. ‘Under the new payroll tax, for the exact same services supplied to our employees, that cost will now be $45,000 per year. ’ “ And because the new payroll tax comes into effect one year before MSP premiums are eliminated, it means…BCfresh will have to pay both MSP premiums and the new payroll tax for the first year. ” Did the Agriculture Minister advise her colleague, the Minister of Finance, of the effect that the employee health tax would have on farmers, ranchers and processors in the province? [4:00 p.m.] Hon.

C. James: As I’ve said, whenever a new program change is occurring, we have a very good, thorough discus- sion around the cabinet table. That includes all ministers. As the member knows, the employers health tax is the lowest rate across the country when it comes to employers health taxes. Other provinces had moved away from medical ser- vice premiums years and years ago. British Columbia is the last province left with medical service premiums — a very regressive tax that we’re eliminating, and bringing in the employer health tax. So yes, a very thorough discussion occurred around the table with all ministers. I.

Paton: One more question. Thank you to minister. Cannabis, unfortunately, has become an allowable use in greenhouses on our prime class 1 soil in Delta and in Langley and in Abbotsford, etc. I’m not sure why this has been allowed to happen, but it is happening under this new government. So cannabis is replacing food produc- tion in many of our greenhouses. What I would like to know…. There is an 80 percent rebate on natural gas provided to greenhouses growing food. Is the 80 percent rebate on natural gas being provided to the cannabis growers that are using all that fuel to heat their buildings?

The second question, if I could lump that in as well: are the cannabis-growing greenhouses receiving the same farm tax status that vegetable-growing greenhouses would receive? [4:05 p.m.] Hon. C. James:The 80 percent rebate — cannabis is not an eligible crop for that 80 percent rebate. On the B.C. Assessment site, it says classification of land as farm excludes the production of cannabis. T. Wat:Before I ask a question, I would like to provide a copy of theHansard of my budget estimate debate with the Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture for the reference of the Finance Minister.

I have a tag on theHansard there, on 91535. The Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture, when I engaged in the budget estimate debate with her, said the SFU contract on the public consultation of the Chinese-Canadian history museum was done through the Ministry of Finance, and she told me to feel free to canvass the Finance Minister regarding this SFU contract. I would like to confirm with the Finance Minister if this is the case. Hon. C. James: We’re just gathering information. We don’t have the information with us, so I just want to give a chance….

If there are other questions that people want to ask while we’re gathering the information, the opportunity is there. Or the member can put a series of questions, if the member wishes, and we can look at all those questions when we get the details. T. Wat:Thank you, Minister, for the response. But I just want to know if the minister is aware of this SFU contract on the public consultation of the Chinese-Canadian history museum.

To be honest, I was quite shocked when the Minis- ter of Tourism, Arts and Culture told me that this particular contract has nothing to do with her. [4:10 p.m.] Through FOI, I asked for three reports that the Minister of TAC has done concerning the Chinese-Canadian history museum. One is a UBC report, also on the Chinese-Cana- dian history museum. The second one is this SFU report, this contract. And the third one is a contract with the Lord con- sulting firm.

I received two of the three reports that the Minister of Tourism has contracted to do with the public consultation of the Chinese-Canadian history museum, but I have not got the SFU report. That’s why I was wondering what’s happen- ing. The Minister of Tourism at first told me that it was done through the Minister of Citizens’ Services several times until towards the middle of the debate. Then she said: “Oh, I have Wednesday, May 8, 2019 British Columbia Debates 9041

to put it on the record that I made a mistake. The contract was done through the Ministry of Finance. ” I totally cannot gather why this is the case, because the Minister of Finance is responsible for finance issues. Some- thing to do with the Minister Responsible for Multicultural- ism should be done by the minister responsible for it. Why is it being done by the Minister of Finance? I want the Minister of Finance to enlighten me on why such an arrangement. Hon. C.

James: As I mentioned, we’re making sure we have staff here, but I am presuming — and I’ll confirm this when we have staff come in — that because it’s public engagement, it may have been done through government communications, which is part of the Ministry of Finance. So I’m presuming, because it was a public engagement con- tract, that it may have been done through those staff. We’re just making sure we have those staff so we can answer the member’s questions. T. Wat:Thank you, Minister, for the response.

Is the minister suggesting that I should sit down and wait until the minister gets all the information before we proceed with any question I would like to ask the minister? Hon. C. James: Well, the member can do a couple of things. The member could list all of the questions, if the member wishes, and we can wait. When the staff are here, we can make sure we answer them.

Other members may ask questions if they want to while we wait for staff, but I think it’s important to make sure that accurate information is being given to the member, so I want to make sure we’ve got the right staff here to be able to respond to the questions. S. Bond: Can the minister tell us approximately when the staff might be available so that we can…? Obviously, the member has, also, other activities to take care of. If the min- ister could get that answer, I will start a new section, and we’ll have the MLA wait

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20190508pm-Hansard-n251
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20190508pm Hansard n251
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	cbfad386472d568b550ce2808da04f48d25769cb

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