Manitoba Hansard — 22 January 1960 (Sitting 4, 26th Legislature, 2nd Session)

26-2-4

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Legislative DEBATES A s s �m bl y 0 f Man it ob a / and PROCEEDINGS Speaker The Honourable A. W. Harrison Volume IV No. 4 January 22, 1960 2nd Session, 26th Legislature Printed b� R. S.-Evans. Queen,s Printer !Oi"-the Province of Manitoba, Winnipeg

DAILY INDEX Friday, January 22, 1960, 2:30p.m. li Introduction of Bills Nos. 43, 27, 14, 18, 45 •. •••• .•.•.• •.•••••••.•• , , • • • • • • . • • • • • • 35 Questions: Mr. Gray (Mr. Johnson, Gimli) ............ :: •.• .• •. . ...• .. ••. .• •.• ••• ·•• 36 Mr. Schreyer (Mr. Hutton) • � .• .• .•••. .••• ••••. .• , ..... . ... . .. . . . .. .... . 37 Orders for Returns: Mr. Prefontaine,Mr. Dow .......... -. ; . .. .. • • .. • • •• • .. • • .. • .. • • • 37 Speech from The Throne Debate: Mr.

Paulley . • • . • . • • • • • • • • • • • • • . • • • • • • • .. • • • • • • • • 38 INDEX TO VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS, 1960 Introduction of New Members • • • • . • • • . • • • • • • • • • . • • • • • • • • • • . • • . • • • • • • • • . • • • • • • • • • • 5 Speech from Throne Debate: Mr. Groves, St. Vital . • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • .. . • • • • .. • . • 6 Mr. Jeannotte , Rupertsland • • • • . • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • . • • • • • . • • . • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • . 11 Mr.

Campbell, Lakeside • • • • • • . . • • • • • • • • . . • • • • • . • • • • • • . . • • • • • • • • • • • • • • . • • 21 Resolution: Rules (.fl.fr. Lyon) • . • • . . . • . . . . • . . • • • • • • • . • • • • . • . • • • • • . • . • • . . . • • . • • • • • • 32 Mr. Prefontaine, Mr. Paulley • • • . • • .. • • . • • . • • • . • • • • . . • • • • • • • • • • . • • . . • • • • • • 33 Motion: Election Act (Mr. Lyon) Mr. Paulley, Mr. Campbell • . . • • . . . • • • . • . • • • • • • • • . • 34

THE LEGISLATIVE ASS EMBLY OF MANITOBA 2:30 o'clock, Friday, January 22nd, 1960. Opening prayer by Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Presenting Petitions Reading and Receiving Petitions Presenting Reports by standing and Select Committees Notice of Motion Introduction of Bills MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable the Attorney-General. HON. JOHN THOMPSON Q.C. (Minister of Public Works) (Virden): I move,seconded by the Honourable the Minister of Mines & Natural Resources,that leave be given to introduce a Bill,No.43,an Act to amend the Election Act and that the same be now received and read a first time. Mr.

Speaker read the motion, presented the qUestion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable the Attorney-General. HON. STERLING R. LYON (Attorney-General) (Fort Garry): Mr. Speaker I beg to move, seconded by the HonoUrable the Minister of Public Works,that leave be given to introduce a Bill, No. 27,an Act to amend the Manitoba Evidence Act and that the same be now received and read a first tiin e. Mr. Speaker read the motion, presented the question and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Minister of Public Utilities. HON. J. B.

CARROLL (Minister of Public Utilities) (The Pas): Mr . Speaker, I beg leave to move,seconded by the Minister of Health & Public Welfare,that leave be given to intro duce a Bill,No. 14,an Act to amend the Public Utilities Board Act and that the same be now received and read a first time. Mr. Speaker read the motion, presented the question and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable the Minister of Labour. MR. CARROLL: Mr.

Speaker, I beg leave,seconded by the Honourable the Minister of Education,that leave be given to introduce a Bill,No. 18,an Act to amend the Vacations with Pay Act and that the same be received and read a first time. Mr. Speaker read the motion, presented the question and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable the Minister of Mines & Natural Resources. HON. CHARLES H. WITNEY (Minister of Mines & Natural Resources) (Flin Flon): Mr.

Speaker,! beg to move, seconded by the Honourable the Minister of Public Works,that leave be given to introduce a Bill,No.45,an Act to amend the Well Dr illing Act and that the same be now received and read a first time. Mr. Speaker read the motion , presented the question and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. MR. SPEAKER: Orders of the Day. HON. DUFF ROBLIN (Premier) (Wolseley): Mr. Speake r,befor e the Orders of the Day I would like to lay upon the table a copy of the· public accounts for the last year in question; a return under

section 1112 of the Insurance Act; a report required on the annual examination of accounts as req uired under the Lunacy Act; statements prepared pursuant to the Pubic Officers Act, report of the Treasury Board on the statement of the Public Accounts for the Province of Manitoba for the fiscal year ended March 31st, 1959; detailed statement of all remissions made under the authority of

section 50 of

chapter 272 of the Revised statutes of Manitoba since the last similar statement that was submitted to the legislature; and a report on any overdrafts or lines of credit arranged since the last report to the legislature. MR. SPEAKER: Orders of the Day. HON. MAURICE E. RIDLEY: (Minister of Municipal Aff airs) (Pembina): Mr. Speaker January 22nd, · 1960. Page 35. l

(Mr. Ridley, cont'd.) •••• before the Orders of the Day I have a very important announcement to make that tomorrow at one o'clock .at La Riviere we are officially opening t_he new ski resort down there. This is quite a large project. They have imported a Poma Lift from France, which I think is the first one that has ever been in southern Manitoba. They can take you up the hill just as fast as you can come down yourself.

And I would like to take this. opportunity of inviting any of the members, if they are free tomorrow at one o'clock, to come to La Riviere and I am sure t:Q,ey would enjoy the day and see the new ski resort. MR. D. L. CAtV1PBELL (Leader of the Opposition) (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, I'd be inclined to endorse the suggestion of the honourable member because I think that members of that side of the House should take some practice because I believe they are on the skids, and they'll be going do'wnhill. MR. MORRIS A GRAY (lnkster): Mr.

Speaker, before the Orders of the Day, may I direct a question to the Hon_!)urable Minister of Health and Public Welfare? And before doing it will you be kind enough to permit me to read three lines from the Speech from the Throne delivered. by His Ex cellency the Governor-General in Ottawa. It will only take one minute. A MEMBER: Go ahead. MR.

GRAY: It reads ''Measures will be placed before youto amend The Old Age Secu rity Act to establish a basis for the payment of pensions and allowances respectively to Canadians residing outside Canada"· My question to. the Honourable Minister. is this, can he translate for this House .a diplomatic sentence delivered in Ottawa as far as it applies generally, and in Manitoba particularly, of the social security -- of the Old Age Security Plan for which he is the Minister? HON. GEO.

JOHNSON M� D; (Minister of Health &P ublic Welfare) (Gimli): Mr� Speak er, I would say the honourable member was good enough to give me warning of this question, and as we understand it in the department, the changes reported by the Press concern the question, as the honourable member has indicated , of paying pensions while pensioners are out of Canada. I think this is what it refers to. At this point, however, we don't.know specifically what the federal changes are in the Old Age Security Act.

But for the benefit of the House I would point out that we do know that the provisions by federal regulation of Old Age Assistance, Blind Pension and Disability Allowance, that is pensions in which the province shares, these people cannot get a pension cheque when outside of Canada, and it permits payments to cover absences from Canada up to but not in excess of ninety-two days in a twelve-month period.

That is, it does not permit' any payment at all after a person has left Canada until after the person returns, and then just for -- he can only claim -- you could only pay him for ninety-two days in any one calendar year. Now, at the present time, the provision of the Old Age Secur ity Act, and of course, where we have no·responsibility in this Act, where a pensioner returns to Canada within six months from the time he left, the pension upon being resumed may be paid for a period not exceeding three months.

So in other words, the present legislation just says that if you are in receipt of a pension and outside of Canada under six months in any one year, you can be paid for as much as three months in that year on your return.

Now, the federal minister did consult the provinces by letter the end of September as to the amendments in the regulations in those Acts administered jointly by the federal-provincial governments, that is, the Old Age Assistance and D.A. and Blind Pensions, and the proposed amendment that he submitted at that time for our consideration was that an allowance shall not be paid during the absence of a recipient from Canada, but the provincial authority may on the return of the recipient to Canada, if satisfied that the circumstances so justified, pay the assistance for any period of absence not exceeding a total of 153 days or five months in the appropriate twelve month period.

In other words, it is likely that the change which the honourable member refers to, Mr. Speaker, in the Old Age Security Act will possibly be for some extension from the three months to around five months. And that is all we know at this time. lYIR. GRAY: Mr. Speaker .••. a supplementary question. Can the Minister tell the House what would be the policy of this province with regard to those who are receiving pension between 65 and 69 in which they are responsible. In other words, there are many old -- I am sorry, I'm not supposed to make a·speech, I'll just ask a question.

I would like to just finish- there are many who could go and live with their children or relatives in some other country and I don't think it will hurt the province of paying them direct ... But my question is, has some Page 36. January 22nd, 1960.

(Mr. Gray, cont'd.), ••• considerations been given by the government? MR. JOHNSON (Gimli): Mr. Speaker, we did give some consideration to this. An um ber of the provinces, as I understand it, were not prepared to go even as far as the proposed amendment here. However, in this province we concurred in the thought of in any one year of paying in absence up to five to six months. . MR. E. R. SCHREYER (Brokenhead): Mr.

Speaker, before Orders of the Day, I would ask the Honourable the Minister of Agriculture whether he has had any representations made to him asking that the time period in which applications for federal-provincial emergency aid be extended. HON. GEORGE HUTTON (Minister of Agriculture) (Rockwood-Iberville): No, I have not. MR. SPEAKER: Orders of the Day. MR. SCHREYER: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question, does the Minister think that there might be some merit in extending this? MR. HUTTON: Are you asking for my opinion? I don't care to give an opinion. MR. SPEAKER: Orders" of the· Day. . MR.

SPEAKER: Honourable Member for Carillon. MR. EDMOND PREFONTAINE (Carillon): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Hon ourable Member for St. George, that an Order of the House do issue for a return showing: (]) The number of established and provisional civil servants on the Manitoba Government payroll on June 30th, 1958 and on December 31st, 1959.

(2) The total sum of money payable to these government·employees calculated on a yearly basis respective to the above dates.

(3) The number of time certificate employees as of August 31st, 1958 and as of August 31st, 1959.

(4) The number of new positions created by departments since June 30th, 1958. Mr. Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the. motion carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Turtle Mountain. MR. E. I. DOW (Turtle Mountain): Mr. Speaker, Question No. 1. -How many people are employed to administer Manitoba Agriculture Credit Corporation. Question No. 2.- How many applications have been received for loans under the above act. Question No. 3. - How many applications have been approved under the same Act.

Question No.4 - How many appli cants for loans have received their money under the same Act and the total amount paid. Question No. 5 - What are the age groups of those receiving loans; how many under 31 and over 31. Question No. 6 - Have all applications been inspected and appraised in the sequence re ceived. Question No. 7 -W hat is the breakdown of the total amount paid out to applicants giving the names of the municipalities within which the applicant s reside. MR. SPEAKER: I take it the question is directed to the Honourable the Minister of Agriculture. MR. HUTTON: Mr.

Speaker, in my opinion the question should be in the form of a return since it involves the compilation of figures and is rather a time consuming process, and I would ask the honourable member for Turtle Mountain to give notice of motion to that effect. I would also point out to the Honourable Member for Turtle Mountain that I do not think that it would be in the best public interest to give the answer to your seventh question -- that is what is the breakdown of the total amount paid out to applicants, giving the names and municipalities within which the applicants reside. Agreed? · MR. CAMPBELL: Mr.

Speaker, I haven't my rule book before me but my remembrance of the procedure is that if the Minister deems that the questions that are asked, the answers to the questions that are asked are such as to incur a great deal of work, a voluminous return, that he can suggest, recommend or declare that he prefers to furnish it by Order of the House, and I don't think it needs notice of motion or notice of motion being moved.

So I would suggest that we simply take the Honourable the Minister's statement that he will furnish the informa tion by bringing down a return, because I don't think under those circumstances that notice is required. With regard to the other matter of Q.Jestion No.2, I fail to see --Question No. 7- I fail to see that so long as we stay with totals why there should be any objection, but if the Minister has any objection to that perhaps there could be a discussion on that point before the Order is brought down. MR. HUTTON: As I interpret the question, Mr. Speaker, be is asking for a breakdown January 22nd, 1960.

Page 37.

(Mr. Hutton, cont'd.) •••• of the total amount paid out by municipalities. However, I don't think it has been the policy of the governments in the past to do this, and I don't think it's in the public interest to do so. I would be happy to bring down the inforniation and table the informa tion that is required in the other questions. rvm. CAMPBELL: Mr.

Speaker, at this point, I would spe3k on a point of order beca:use I think that when the Honourable the Minister suggests that it has not-been the policy in the paSt to do this, it's not been the policy in the past I'm sure, to give up any information that could.in any way disclose a private individual's business to the public, and that is why I think it is best that only totals should be given. And should it happen that only one loan were given in a muni cipality then certainly we would agree with the honourable the Minister.

But supposing that there are several loans I would think there would be no objection at all to that being furnished. However, that's a point of order that I think that it might be well for us to clear now, Mr. Speaker, because there may be some other questions that raise the same point. ' MR. ROBLIN: I take it, Mr. Speaker, that the Honourable the Leader of the Opposition is asking for further consideration to question 7. I would remind him that on previous occasions when we have had requests presented for information of a financial character of this sort on a municipal basis, it has been declin ed.

I think he will recall myself in previous times asking questions of that nature and it has been declined by him at the time, and although perhaps I may have objected at the time, I think upon reflection that he was probably right in saying that (laughter) in saying that the question should be declined. But we'll be glad to furnish the answers to the other ones. MR. CAMPBELL: Mr.

Speaker, I would like only to say in passing that it dbes make quite a difference where you sit, but if the information, or when the information was declined- because I am sure the Honourable the First Minister is right in his recollection--when the in formation was declined, it was because the records were not available on that basis. They were not kept on a municipal basis. Now in this case, the address is ·given in all cases on the appli cations - the address and the municipality -- and so the information is available. The reason for declining was simply because that information did not show at that time.

Here it does show. I would suggest ---there is no reason for debating the question any longer, I would suggest that the mover of the motion as it will be, for an order of return, and the Minister get together and see if they can agree on the information. MR. SPEAKER: Is the House agreed that the Minister will answer by way of Order of Return? Agreed? The reservation on question 7. Adjourned debate on the proposed motion of the Honourable Member for St. Vital and the amendment thereto by the Leader of the Opposition. The Leader of the CCF Party. MR. RU SSELL PAULLEY (Leader of the CCF) (Radisson)� Mr.

Speaker, as is the time honoured custom in this House in taking

part in replying to the Speech from the Throne, may I first of all congratulate you and your fine appearance after the somewhat hectic and warm session of last summer. I would first of all like to welcome to this legislature our new members. I think that they will find in this House a very con.. flicting sort of an attitUde and spirit. On oc casions I am sure that they will find us at dagger lengths, and then shortly after, figuratively speaking, sharing an ice cream cone.

I am sure I can speak for those that have been in here- and I haven"t been in here too long-- but those that have been in here for a few years, that one's impression of politics and democracy undergoes a great change when one has the opportunity of representing a constituency in an Assembly such as this. Already, Mr. Speaker, some of the new members have taken

part in· the debate, or at least made a contribution in this legislatu1·e. And from their few opening rem arks, we can visualize that as their feet go under the table that they will ma ll:e a very great contribution to the Province of Manitoba and to this Assembly. And I want to particularly welcome the charming member from Cypress. Unlike the Honourable the Leader of the Opposition, I wasn't privileged to be over 21 at the last time that there was a lady in the legislature, and I am sure that her presence, Mr.

Speaker is going to temper the debate in this House, and I welcome her especially because it is an oddity, not Sir, that she is • · And, Sir, I would like to just add a word in connection with the welcome because I re called yesterday that the Honourable the Leader of the Opposition was chastising one of tbe members in connection with the added word "Progressive" behind that time honoured word Page 38. January 22nd, 1960.

(Mr, Paulley, cont'd.) •••• "Conservative", and be was very jocular in his remarks in that connection. But I noted in our local paper in Transcona the other day that

whereas the Honour able the Leader of the Opposition mentioned the conservatives gone progressive, that by resolution in the R:;.disson constituency of the Liberal party, they have suggested that at long last they will admit that they are no longer "progressive" and want to go back to calling them selves straight Liberal. A MEMBER: A very appropriate move. MR. PAULLEY: Now, Sir, I would be remiss in my duties if I did not congratulate the new members of the Cabinet. I think the three new additions to the Cabinet will equip them selves well.

I had the opportunity the other night at a free banquet, thanks to the government, of hearing the new Minister of Mines '& Natural Resources give a talk on his task, the devel opment of our natural resources. And I am sure that all of those who were at the School Trustees Association accepted his very well presented remarks with pleasure, Oh, it may have been, Mr. Speaker, that sitting at the table, I had some reservations to some of the things he said and they may be revealed later, but I certainly admired the way he presented them and I 'am sure that everybody else did. · .

The new Minister of �unicipal Aff airs I welcome into his office, and I think Mr. Speaker, that be will have his problems, particularly if he attempts to put into effect all of the suggesuons already made by a member of the government in this Legislature, but I wish him well. So far as the Minister of Agriculture is concerned, I like farmers too, and I wish him the very, very best. I think, Sir, that I should say a word in connection with the Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition.

I listened with great interest yesterday to the remarks of my honourable friend, and I agreed in general with much that he had to say.

But Sir, I thought that my ears deceived :i:ne yesterday afternoon when I listened to the man who occupies the position as Leader of the official Opposition in this province, or the position of the Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition in any government, when I heard a remark or at least I thought I heard a remark from my honourable friend, And I was sure that my ears had deceived me until I had an opportunity· today to read our so-called Hansard and the report of the Debates and Proceedings in this Legislature, And there, Sir, I found that my ears have not deceived me because here is what I l"ead today.

On Page 27 dealing with the question of the Throne Speech and in reference to the Manitoba Development Fund. Third paragraph, the second full paragraph. And here, Sir, is what was said "I don't need to comment on the Manitoba Development Fund. I hold the same feeling that I've had before, that it's a duplication of the effort of the Federal Government" And I say, Sir, that's quite all right. "It's a field of endeavour that the Province of Manitoba should not have engaged in." My honourable friend is entitled to his opinion.

Then, my honour able friend goes on to say, "my honourable friends will say well why did you vote for it." And here, Sir, in my opinion is the potent factor, because be answers the question himself. "We voted for it because my honourable friends had promised it. Having promised it it's a good thing that some of these things should be proceeded with so that the public gets an opportunity to find out in the hard way just exactly what it is and what it costs them to listen to these politi cians' promises.

And they will find out in this one that the duplication of the federal effort is one that will be costly to them. I fancy, and doesn't accomplish much that wouldn't have been accomplished anyway.' .' My point, Sir, is this, that I hope the day does not arrive, be I, the House Leader of the CCF Party in this House, . the Leader of the Official Opposition, or the Leader of the House, when I vote for something simply because somebody else had promised it, and when I vote for it as implicated in this, so that the public will have an opportunity to realize the expensiveness of politicians' promises.

And having said tha·t, Sir, we of our party in the House have been accused on many occasions, and possibly rightly so, because of the things that we have advocated will be costly, but never, Sir, I don't think that we can be accused-of voting for them to teach anybody a lesson, or because somebody else has promised them,"'' . Now, Sir, I would like to say word to the mover and the seconder of the Speech, in reply.

My honourable friend, the Leader of the Opposition had a few kind remarks to say to the mover of the address and to the seconder, and I, like him, found many revealing features of govern ment policy in the speech of the mover, However, I think he made his presentation very nicely. And to my friend from the north wh� we tried to prevent from entering .the House with a little January 22nd, 1960. Page 39.

(Mr. Paulley, cont'd.) •••• Indian Chief, may I sincerely congratulate him on a job well done in seconding the Speech from the Throne. And I sincerely trust, Mr. Speaker, I sincerely trust that we will hear time and time again from the Honourable Member from Rupertsland. And now, Sir, I think it would only be proper for me to say a few words about this lovely printed document. And I don't think there is any question of doubt it was well printed. The Queen's Printer, or whoever did the job should be congratulated.

And there, Sir, I think the congratulations must cease, because I can find not much in the Speech from the Throne which will cause any enthusiasm of the people of Manitoba and which reveals anything that we didn't know before. On the contrary, Sir, many things have been omitted that we think the people of Manitoba should have been told that this government was going to do. First of all let us touch briefly on the question of agriculture as referred to in the Speech. And I preface my remarks, Mr.

Speaker by saying what is well known that I do not profess to be an agriculturist, but I would say, Sir, that does not debar me from having some thoughts in agrimil.ture, and I would suggest that it's qui te proper for me as a dry-land farmer in Transcona to make comments as many of our dry-land farmers in Tuxedo and elsewhere do also. What is the reference in the Speech to the Throne in agriculture? Read it, read it closely. It admits that the farmers of Manitoba are in dire circumstances.

It admits that the situation respecting agriculture in Manitoba, and I say Sir, it applies to western Canada generally as a whole, that it is not good. I suggest Sir, that we didn't have to have the Throne Speech tell us that. We knew that. But what it omits to do or omits to tell this House. or the. Province of Manitoba, what the govern ment is going to do in order to improve the lot of the farmer.

"While in some more favoured agriculture areas production was reasonably satisfactory, I note that approximately one million acres of unharvested crops representing 20 to 25 million bushels of grain remains snow cover ed with little hope of salvage value.

While the estimated value of Manitoba's 1959 total agricultural production of approximately 321 million dollars is slightly more than a million dollars of last year, I must emphasize that net farm income for the year just closed will be lower than .that in 1958." Fills up space, it tells us what we already know, but nowhere can I find in the Speech from the Throne any evidence of anything that the Conservative Government of Manitoba is goirig to do. Oh sure, of course, Mr. Speaker, reference is made to the Farm Credit Act, reference is made to the Crop Insurance Act. Of course it is.

But is any reference made to any action that is contemplated by the government of Manitoba to increase the net in come of the farmers in Manitoba so that they can repay the credit that is now being given to the farmers of Manitoba? I see not a word of it, Mr. Speaker, in the Speech from the Throne. Mention is made in the speech, "As a further measur e of assistance to farmers who have har vested less than 50% of their total crop acreage, my government is sharing with the govern ment of Canada an acreage payment plan. My government expects that these programs of assistance will require heavy provincial outlay".

I direct a question to the Minister, the Honourable the Minister of Agriculture. It is my understanding, Sir, that in the Province of Saskatchewan, 'and I am sorry that I haven't the compl ete details before me, but it is my understanding that in the Province of Sl.s katchewan that those farmers who are going to qualify for the payment.under the 50% crop disaster plan are also going to still qualify for payments under the Prairie Farm Assistance Act. Why not?

If that is permissible under the terms of the agreement with the Government of Canada, why not the farmer of Manitoba who is in a similar situation to his colleague in Saskatchewan? Then in the part of the Throne Speech dealing with agriculture we find that there's still more sums going to be paid out for agricultural research. I'm sure, Mr. SPeaker, that that must have been inserted in there by the research expert, the Honourable the Minister of Indus-: try & Commerce, because I think that it would be a sad thing for a speech of that nature � there wasn't emphasis on more research, and more research.

And I say, Sir, that agriGulhiTal research is a very, very good thing. But isn't it true though that the emphasis, and �ain I repeat, insofar as the agricultural problems of Manitoba and western Canada is concerned, is not only the question of more and continued research into methods of production, but more re-, search into how to get rid of the stuff that is being produced in order that the farmer can get a fair return for his labour.

And I say that while I have no objection to sums of money being spent on agricultural research, I suggest to the government that their emphasis should be on helping the farmer to sell his products at a reasonable return. Oh yes, we will have more Page 40. January 22nd, 1960.

(Mr. Paulley, cont'd.) ••• • agricultural research, Mr. Speaker, but not a word in the Throne Speech of the farmers' request for deficiency payments on their produce. Go on to weed control. Government participation with municipalities in respect of weed control has been going on for years, and we of our group have recommended or suggested_ to the government that insofar as weed control, and insofar as fertilizers are concerned, that this is a field in which a provincial government can truly help the farmers and the municipali ties by going into the manufacture of these costly weapons itself.

Now then, one other point that I'm sure will be of great interest to the farmers of Manitoba, is the nice little sentence contained in ·the Throne Speech which says "that recent surveys indicate that only 7% of farm homes are equipped with the modern water supply and sewage system." You know, Mr. Speaker, I had a suspicion that during the last session of this legislature that the Conserva tive Government had waited until the .Saskatchewan Government had announced their plans in their Throne Speech, and now apparently newspaper reports are sufficient.

But I venture to say this that in respect of the plans of this government to assisting the farmers install sewer and water systems in Manitoba will be a vastly different plan than what is envisioned in the province to the west because of anything that we can read. It appears --- and I will be gladly corrected by the government --� it appears th:it this is simply an extension of the information that has been available for years through the Extension Department at the University.

Maybe the printing will be.brought out in bolder print, but I am sure that insofar as the technical knowledge or information, that it was available before. I ask the Minister of Agriculture, does he intend in this plan for the installation of sewer and water to the farmers, to assist them in any way at all with the bulk purchases of the necessary materials that are going to be needed? IS he going to assist them with the provision of necessary mechanical equipment, or what? We await with interest the revealing of the full plan, or what the government has in respect of sewer and water.

Another item that is contained in the Throne Speech deals with the very, very import ant matter of flood control. We note that in the paragraph devoted to this question that investigations are nearly completed, and you will be asked to provide additional funds to put under way the next step in implementing the program. We don't know what funds are going to be voted this year for this particular purpose. They may be great, they may be small. But I say this, that if they're comparable with the sum that was voted last time for the inves� tigation, I don't thin..\, Mr.

Speaker, that you or I will be around when the flood control system is completed. I'd li.l{e to Rsk the government what progress has been made with Ottawa respecting the appeal of the province for gTeat contributions to this scheme. I also would like to know of the Minister concerned, how much longer is it going to take for: the Seine River diversion to be completed, because that is an overthrow long back when my hon ourable friend sat as my honourable friends opposite are sitting, and let's not have anymore sitting, but let's have something done.

Now then, Sir, one of tbe items that is contained in the Speech from the Throne which I must agree to, that my party has ag-.ceed to_, and where I, and I agree with my honourable friend the Leader of the Opposition in this, as to the necessity of it even appearing in the Speech from the Throne. and that is in reference to the Crows Nest Pass grain rates. We have been unanimous in western Canada that we should be united on this very vital question- that they should not be disturbed to the detriment of the agricultural industry. Tommy Douglas, Sir, has taken the same �tand, but there is this difference.

There is this difference and that is the point I am coming to, that he likewise recognizes that there is a problem of the railroad, and that if it is necessary for the railroads to receive additional remuneration or returns, it should be by way of a national subsidy to the company. But I don't believe Sir, that Tomrny Douglas has ever said in respect of the Crows Nest grain rates and the transportation of grain, that they should pay any more than they are now, because it would be detrimental to the agricultural industry of western Canada.

And I'll go further than that, seeing as my honourable friend has mentioned the Premier of Saskatchewan. I would say to him, Sir, that if he would only follow the lead on behalf of agriculture that the Premier of Saskatchewan has given, the lot of the farmer in Manitoba and western Canada would have been a lot better. No, they're not better off in Saskatchewan, Mr. Speaker, and the only January 22nd, 1960. Page 41.

(Mr. Paulley, cont'd.), ... reason tha± they're not better off in Saskatchewan is because the likes of my honourable friend, the whip of the Conservative party keeps throwing monkey wrenches into the works of the farm organizations and resolutions 'that are proposed in this House that are for the betterment of the farmers of Manitoba and western Canada. MR. CAMPBE LL: Good old Saskatchewan. MR. PAULLEY: The amiable member. Now then, Sir, we must go on. (Interjection) I see my honourable friend is awake today, Mr. Speaker. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I wonder possibly, honourable leader of the Opposition, if I did keep down, if he would. Now then I note with great interest in the Speech from the Throne a reference that is being made to the establish ment here in Manitoba of an atomic energy plant by the government of Canada, or its agency. And Sir, I think this opens a new field for Manitoba. It's a good thing for Manitoba.

I also note i.:i:J. the Speech from the Throne that plans are going ahead for the building of a hydro-electric plant at Grand Rapids at a cost of about 140-odd million dollars, and it will take approximately 4 or 5 years before we receive the benefits of it. And I would like to direct this question to the government. Has the Hydro-Electric Board made any cost comparison between the cost of the new plant at Grand Rapids, and the cost oJ.. furthering the supply of electrical energy by atomic energy. It seems to me, Mr. Speaker, that this is very vital.

I know when the House was considering the development of plants before, to the north, for power here in the greater Winnipeg area, that due to the long length of transmission lines that it was a rather expensive undertaking. Now we know that over in the old country that they have gone into atomic energy plants for the production of electrical energy, and they have found there that it is cheaper than coal, and they're still progressing.

And here, in the Province. of Ontario, despite the fact that they have the huge resources of the Niagara River and Niagara Falls, that they in that province are bJ')ginning to find that they are running out of available hydro-electric power, and are on the verge, so I am informed,, of developing atomic energy for the production of electrical power.

Now it may seem strange Sir, to raise this point at this time, but I think it is a valid one, because here we have on one hand a cost of$140 million in the new plant at Grand Rapids, we have the Dominion of Canada agency coming in with an atomic energy plant which I presume that they will control, ·'and my question once again, Mr.

Speaker on this without labouring the point, I'd like to hear at some stage during the deliberations in this legislature whether or not this matter has been given the consideration of the government and what their conclusions are, because I feel that it is a very important question for the people of Manitoba.

And if, as we hope, that our province continues its expansion at the rate it is, and even increases, we may soon find ourselves despite all of our untouched resources in the province, it may not be tco long before we in Manitoba, despite our favorable position, find ourselves short of electrical energy .and have to get into this field anyway. So I suggest that the time to investigate it is now. • •.••.. Continued on next page. Page 42. ·.January 22nd, 1960�

(Mr. Paulley, cont'd.) .. Now, Sir, one cannot speak in this legislature without touching on the question of education. This is a subject which has been to the fore, and properly so, in Manito ba for a considerable number of years. I don't know whether there has been any other subject that has been given such a thorough investigation. I recall reading many reports in connection with education years ago. I recall reading how we used to honour and admire the school teach er. How fortunate it was that within the community we had this individual called the school teacher.

How proud we were of our school teachers--proud to invite them into our homes; proud to be associated with them; but it seems to me, Mr. Speaker, that the more we investi gate education, the self-styled educationalists in Manitoba and elsewhere have forgotten the poor school teacher, because the emphasis today--that the problems of education are being created because our school teachers are poor in a different sense. They're not qualified--they're not qualified. I say, Mr. Speaker, that this is a fallacy. I feel, Sir, that i.t is time that somebody said something nice about a school teacher.

What happened yesterday or the day before when the Honourable Member from St. Vi.tal was moving the address and referred to the question of education? The question under discussion, Mr. Speaker, was the rising costs of education. And who is being blamed for the rising costs of education? The school teacher. My honourable friend wanted to point out the reasons for the increase in the cost of education in his school dist rict. He did not say, as others are not saying, that for tens of years our teachers, insofar as their salaries were concerned, were given no more consideration than menial servants else where.

Of course, Mr. Speaker, if we're going to give our teachers a reasonable standard of living, our school costs are going to go up. But who is saying that today? The criticisms that are coming now is that they are a poor lot. I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that they're better because of their training that they are now receiving and I regret, as I say again, that many of our self styled educational experts are knocking on the wrong door. Just the other night in the Winnipeg Tribune of January 20th an

article "all praise to the great teachers, there's more to it than money". In a hard-hitting speech to.the Ma nitoba School Trustees Association's Annual Convention in the Winnipeg Auditorium, Gerald D. Fish, Execu tive Vice-President and Managing Director of Payne, Ross Limited, Management Consultant, said the role of the teacher in the community had slowly been diminishing. Teaching used to be one of the great professions along with law and medicine. People in the community looked up to teachers and teachers assumed major responsibilities in the community. Society respected them and they respected their jobs.

"The community gave them a place of honour,"hesai.d. iYir. Speaker, that is written in the past tense and I say it should be in the present tense and I deplore the aspersions that are cast on our teachers. Of course there are poor ones. Didn't the Law Society the other day throw out a member of its profession because he was a poor lawyer or made mistakes? Don't, from time to time, the medical profession do likewise? But in this particular instance it's a long harangue and I say that it's unjustified. Of course the costs of education will rise.

My honourable friend, if I recall the period of time correctly, my honour able friend the Minister of Education--Pm sorry I couldn't find the clipping but I believe it was somewhere in December--gave an admonition that if the teachers' salaries continue to rise, or at least he's quoted--Pm glad he's shaking his head--that there was the possibi.li.ty of govern mental control in respect to teachers' salaries. HON. STEWART E. McLEAN (Dauphin) Minister of Education): .. ... I never said that. MR. PAULLEY: I'm glad to hear that, Mr.

Speaker, and I take my honourable friend's word as finalizing my thoughts because I was glad to say to him (Interjection) in.this instance, Mr. Speaker, I'd rather rely on my honourable friend and I'm glad to hear him say that be cause I think i.t would be a sad day for education in Manitoba if such action was taken, and so I say, Mr.

Speaker, in respect of education, that rather than all of the criticisms that are being levelled at a truly honourable profession by the so-called educationalists, and Pm sure as I read some of the individuals and who they are, that their remarks are tempered with the cost to a well-paid teacher than to the teacher themselves. And, Sir, I cannot pass by the qu estion of education without making reference to the Royal Commission Report on Education.

The Report has contained the interim report we dealt with, and the final report has just come before us and the matter will be given consideration, but in order, Sir, that there be no mistake of my view point on this very important matter, I quote now verbatim in respect of it. "Some criticism has been made of the quick action taken by the government in implementing the interim report of the January 22nd, 1960. Page 43.

(Mr. Paulley, cont'd.) . . Commission. Some of these criticisms are valid and as a result of hasty action many difficulties have arisen which may have been avoided. In respect to the bal ance of the report, and in particular the question of aid to private schools, I think the people of Manitoba would want the matter to be given full and complete consideration before any legisla tive action is taken. ' I trust that when this possibly controversial matter is discussed in the leg islature, that the discussion will be of high calibre and that reason, not emotion, will be the guiding consideration in debate.

" Now, Sir, I would like to go on with a few more items which I have before me and I hope, Sir, that I'm not taking up too much time of the House. I'd like to make just a brief reference to an omission in the Speech from the Throne. The newspapers had a "heyday" a little while back after our honourable friend the First Minister returned from his trip to the British Common wealth of Nations Conference when he referred to the question of possible foreign aid for Mani toba, and at this particular time, Mr. Speaker, I'm not going to dwell on the matter.

The Lead er of the Opposition had a few remarks in conjunction with this yesterday. I think many of his points were valid but I think: that in all fairness t'o the government that before any more is said on the matter that we should hear what their program and their policy is to be. But I would like, Sir, to--as the Honourable Leader of the Opposition yesterday was twitting the Member for St.

Vital for revealing things that were not in the budget--or not in the Speech from the Throne--! noted last night that the communications on all sides must have broken down because here's a member here telli.ng us what might have been in there that wasn't and now I have a little !Jlipping here, Mr. Speaker, datelined Ottawa, that tells us what is in here that isn't. And this, Sir, is an

article which appeared in the press yesterday, headlined: "Green Hedges on Little Colombo Plan'·' and it goes on to say that Honourable Howard Green, Secretary of State for External Af fairs, declined Wednesday to tell the Commons the attitude of the Federal Government towards special programs of provincial governments with respect to aid to underdeveloped countries. W. N. Bendrickson (Kenora-Rainy River) asked Mr. Green for the government's attitude to wards such programs as that announced by Manitoba Premier Duff Roblin. Said Mr.

Green, · quote: "This is a question which is now before the Manitoba Legislature and I think it quite im proper for me to comment at this time." So maybe some day, some day my honourable friends there will get ali the little boys together there and tell them what should be and what shouldn't be in so that we don't have these problems that we have from time to time. Now then, I'm sure, Mr. Speaker, that the Honourable the Minister of Labour would be dis appointed if I didn't refer to labour. I must apologize to the Honour able Member for St.

Vital that once again the Manitoba Federation of Labour did not make a great exhortation in their brief. They've made it so often without avail in many respects that I think though that seriously, that the problem is of just as much concern today as it was in previous years. And while we will be discussing, as announced by the Honourable Member for St. Vital, amendments to labour leg islation in the future, I'm not going to dwell too much on the subject this afternoon, but I want to remind my honourable friends opposite of a resolution that was moved in this Legislature on March 18th, 1958, by the then Mr.

Hank Scott, who sat for Winnipeg Centre, and the resolution read: "Resolved that in the opinion of this House, the government should give consideration to the appointment of a full time Minister of Labour. " Now at that time my friend the Leader of the Opposition was sitting opposite--and I don't think they'll ever return--but my friend here was sitting over there and the Honourable Mr.

Scott was, I believe, sitting where the Honourable Member for La Verendrye is now sitting, and just to beat the CCF a resolution came in asking for a full time Minister of Labour, and the resolution passed by the overwhelming vote of 48 to 1. Every member in the House, including the present First Minister, the present Leader of t1:e Official Opposition and myself stood up and were counted; that we all agreed in the interests of labour and in the interests of Manitoba that we should have a full time Minister of Labour. The one dissenter--the one dissenter--(Interjection)--No, this was one of his better days.

The one dissenter was the Honourable Member for Morris, Mr. Shewman. And what do we find with all the hustle and bustle of this young exuberant group across the House? That of all the depart ments still without a full time representative--The Department of Labour. And where is it coupled with now? As against Provincial Secretary or one of the other ones? One of the most important portfolios of government today--the Minister of Public Utilities. I would suggest to the Premier that if he's going to look after the interests of the public utilities of Manitoba Page 44. January 22nd, 1960

(Mr. Paulley, cont'd. ) .. rightly, and we've seen since the installation of gas here in Greater Winnipeg, there are many jobs yet remaining to be done; there are many things that have been revealed that, insofar as the control and operation of gas installation and the likes of that, re quire full time consideration from the public utilities and I suggest the same is true of labour.

With great gusto in the Speech from the Throne we mention the fact of the ever increasing in dustrial production in our province and I say that that government on that side of the House is just as in the backwoods in respect to labour today as it was when it was led by my honourable friend on my right. And I say this to my honourable friend, the Leader of the House, reconsid- er the announcement that was made that this is your permanent .. .... It was in the Press . (Interjection) Or if it wasn't in the Press maybe it's in one of those big stacks of informational bulletins that come to our door.

So I say, Sir, that while we won't dwell on the question of labour today, I want to suggest to the government that they reconsider, and while the present minister is a very intelligent individual, I suggest that the onus of the Minis:try of Public Utilit ies and of Labour is beyond even his capacity to handle. Mention was made of unemployment. I agree with my honourable friend from St. Vital that this Is a problem which we still have with us.

It is with regret that we note that unemployment is showing increases over the last 14 or 15 weeks and we sincerely trust that the government, in co-o peration with other agencies, will tackle this matter firmly, and I'm sure that any co-oper ation that we can give in respect of that will be forthcoming. Now, Sir, I must hurry on.· Now I want to say this, that Conservative policy both here and at Ottawa is at last having its reflections on the people of Canada.

Through the tight money poli ciesof the Dominion Government, despite their verbiages to the same, we find that the con struction industry is predicting that the housing starts in 1960 will be down by 16% . What a reflection! What a reflection, Mr. Speaker, on a country so great as · Canada . What a reflecti on on a government who was pledged to see that no one suffered as a want of unemployment, that at the same time as unemployment is gradually increasing, housing starts down 16%, and coupled with that, the individual who is going to buy a house is faced with the highest interest rate ever known.

And what answer have we got? None is forthcoming �t the present time from those in control. The only answer that we get from our friends across the way--i ncreased beer prices ; no tax increases. I say that if Conservative policies last in Canada for another ten years we'll be· a bankrupt country. I can't help but say a word to my honourable friend the Attorney-General . He's a very charming individual, maybe a little procrastinated, but I would like to ask him that if when he is reviewing his department that he gives us a full explanation as to why it is that we find in our papers articles such as "Bar News

Article Stirs Up a Storm". Why is it that the Attorney General's Department has, to a greater degree I think than ever before, actively interfered or taken steps in the process of justice in Manitoba by way of appe als of decisions that have been made in our courts. My honourable friend, Sir, says better management. Then there's something wrong that requires better management. If that is .the case then there's something wrong. I will not labour the point but I suggest to my friend that we, the members of this legis lature, are entitled to an answer and I trust it will be forthcoming from the Attorney-General.

Now then there is another item I mentioned, Mr. Speaker. I know the matter is before the courts by way of appeals but I earnestly hope and suggest that as soon as the matter is finished in the courts that the Attorney-General will give some leadership in the Province of Manitoba respecting trading stamps and gifts; and we expect to hear from him, too ere long on the questi on of Sunday sports in the Province of Manitoba. And with that, I'll just leave my honourable friend's department. Now, Sir, one final point that I wish to make is in the question of health and welfare.

It is in this field that the government, I think, has prided itself the most. I recall that after the de feat of the minority government that members opposite went to the electorate waving a bill. They decried the opposition groups because by defeating the minority government at the time, those who were in need of assis tance were deprived of obtaining it. "They stopped us; they threw us out;" was the cry of the Conservatives. "If they'd have kept us in, look what you would have been getting" was the cry of the Conservatives during that election. Now then., we delayed· it six months, Mr. Speaker.

I'm glad to hear it because I'm just going to read my honourable friend's words of last July, when in reply to a question which I raised as to when-this scheme January 22nd, 1960. Page 45.

(Mr. Paulley, cont'd. ) .. should be put into effect. On July 23rd, 1959, Page 1261, my honour able friend the Minister of Health and Welfare said at that time--"I would hope to put as much effort into it as we could and starting in right away and up until the end of October, November we should be getting some of these things going. I don't think it would be fair," and I say this in all justice to my friend, "I don't think that it would be fair for me at this time with the tremend ous changes that will occur here to give a firm commitment".

Now, I agree that he didn't give a firm com mitment, but he did say, Sir, on the same page, that it will take you three months to process 6, 000 applications the way we want to do it--this from the date of proclamation. And then after the session was over the Winnipeg Tribune, I believe, on November 17th, had quite an

article headed: "Province Plans to Blaze a Trail in Welfare Field--Plan basedon personal need due to start by New Year".

So in July while we were inses ston it's October, November ish; in November it's sor t of first of Januaryish; and now it's first of Februaryish; and I say this, that if what the Minister said back in July of last year is correct and same holds true to day, that when the announcement of the government was made as to the date of proclamation being February the first, they should have said to the people of Manitoba, who are vitally con cerned with this: "We're proclaiming the Act on February the first; we'll start receiving appli cations after the proclamation and it will take three months to process them; because I'm sure that the people who will be receiving the benefits of this plan, if and when it comes into effect, take the date of February first as the date on which they will be receiving the aids and it is not so, and I suggest to the Honourable Minister of Health and Welfare that he makes the clarificat ion if it's necessary.

Now then, many of those other matters will be the question for us later on. We proposed on this side of the House last year, as an amendment to the Throne Speech, a request of our government in Manitoba to get under--take under advisement the question of an overall compre hensive health scheme. Since that time, the province to the west of us, who was the forerunner in hospital services in Canada, has announced that they are going to proceed with a plan of pre paid medical care on a province-wide basis .. I might say incidental to this, Mr.

Speaker, that after we had had a discussion here in the legislature setting up the Manitoba Health Services Assoc iation under a new plan, I received a communication from one of the interested doctors who thanked me for my

part in the deliberations and said that your aims and our aims are identi cal, and I suggest, Sir, that that is right. The other day I noted in the press that a visitingdoctor, I believe his name was Cha:tnley, who had come to our province here, had com plained to us or told us that Cam dians wouldn't take this--dealing with the British system. Now , Sir, I am not going into all the details that I gave of the British system a year ago. I don't think it is necessary.

I think it is well known that the plan is a firm one, but I think that in all fairness to the House that I should say that we have noted with great interest the remarks of Dr. Charnley and the headline in the Free Press which read "Canadians Wouldn't Take This". He weighed long delays in British medical plans. This is contrary to the evidence of the British Medical Journal, which I quoted from last year. He mentions in his

article of the length of time which it takes to have a bunion treated or a her nia operation. I suggest, Sir, that he doesn't have to quote Great Britain for that. He can quote here in Manitoba of the long waiting periods which we have in many instances , where questions of bunions and the likes of that, in the Province of Manitoba even today. But I would say this, that once again the Province of Saskatchewan has taken the lead in a very vital public service and are carrying on consultations with the medical profession in respect of medical treatment.

And I think, and I am quoting from the Com monwealth which is understandable, but I think that there is one paragraph in here that is most pertinent. It says that "the most important of all, such a plan will permit the integration of curative and preventive services. A medical program must not only be concerned with curing disease but also with the much more desirable object ive of keeping people well. " Now, I say again to the Province of Manitoba, I say to the Honourable the First Minister that he came up with a new thought insofar as international relations are concerned in res pect of foreign aid.

I say to him that he missed an opportunity last year of being a truly pioneer province in the Dominion of Canada by accepting the amendment as proposed by the CCF Party respecting a comprehensive health insurance plan for the Dominion of Canada. Once again, Mr. Speaker, he has missed a golden opportunity to place Manitoba first. Saskatchewan once again: Page 46 . January 22nd, 1960 .

(Mr. Paulley, cont'd. ) .. has stolen the lead but, Sir, in order that he may be at least second, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable Member from Inkster, that the following words be added to the motion as amended: We further regret the failure of the government to take the in itiative in promoting a com prehensive federal-provincial health insurance plan. And I say once again, Mr. Speaker, as I said at the conclusion of my remarks last year, I make no apologies for introducing this resolution. At that time it was the same as the year before.

I made no a pologies at that time for introducing it; I make no apologies this afternoon. We in our party will continue the fight on this very vi. tal and important issue until everybody in Canada by right, not by selection, is entitled to full and comp lete comprehensive health care. Mr. Speaker presented the motion. MR. CAMPBELL: On a point of order with regard to the motion that the Honourable the Leader of the CCF Party has just made--I certainly don't wish to embarrass him and I'm afraid it will. I think, Mr.

Speaker, that on reflection you will have to declare the motion o:tt of order because I notice that it reads that the following words be added to the motion as amended. The motion has not yet been amended and I hope that it is amended as I suggested. It hasn •t yet been and I think you will agree with me, Mr. Speaker, that the motion at this stage must read that the amendment be amended. MR. SPEAKER: The point is well taken--that the following words be added to the motion as amended. MR. ROBLIN: Speaking on the point of order, Mr.

Speaker, I have not yet seen a copy of it but judging from what I have heard, it seems as if the point of order may be well taken. I also certainly agree with the impression left by--with me at any rate, that we should not take it for granted that the main motion will be amended in the manner suggested. MR. CAMPBELL: Mr. Speaker, on the point of order, I am sure that none of us wishes to deprive the Honourable the Leader of the CCF Party of the opportunity of moving an amend ment in proper form and would it be well for Mr. Speaker to take the matter under advisem ent? MR. ROB LIN: I imagine, Mr.

Speaker, that my honourable friend the Leader of the CCF Party could now, if he would see fit to do so , change the wording so as to come within the scope of the rules and thus facilitate matters and it might be that the House would be disposed to allow him to do so and get the matter on the Order Paper properly for tomorrow. If that would meet with my honourable friend's view, Mr. Speaker, perhaps you might consider it. MR. PAULLEY: Mr.

Speaker, I am the most amiable individual that ever sat in this House and if it will facilitate matters at all, I'm prepared to do whatever Your Honour agrees to, but if I read correctly on the Order Paper: "That the motion be am ended by adding at the end thereof the following wards", and all we're saying is simply that the following words be added to the motion as amended. And I suggest to you, Sir, in all deference, that exactly the same wo rding was the Resolution of the CCF Party without a change, even. the

preamble as to the following words be added to the motion as amended at the last session. But, Mr. Speaker, I am in your very capable hands if this is to be changed. It was acceptable last year in its pres ent form. I can see nothing wrong with it but maybe I am just a little thick-headed today but I am quite prepared to bow to any of your decisions. MR. SPEAKER: If the House is agreeable, I'll work out an amendmentthatwill be in order and not change the sense of the motion. MR.

PAULLEY: Maybe my honourable friend the Leader of the Official Opposition is a little sharper today than he was on this day at the summer session. MR. CAMPBELL: I'm sharp every day, Mr. Speaker. I just didn'twant to interfere with my honourable friend at that time. MR. SPEAKER: As I take it, the motion is not amended until a vote has been taken in the House. It's a technicality. Are you ready for the question ? MR. J. M. FROESE (Rhine land): I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable Member from Dufferin, that debate be now adjourned. Mr.

Speaker presented the motion and following a voice vote declared the motion carried. MR. ROBLIN: Mr. Speaker, we now come to the customary motion for adjournment. I would just like to enquire the wishes of the House, Sir, if I may, with respect to the time on which we should meet on Monday. The government is prepared to meet at 2:30 if that would be considered reasonable. On the other hand, it may be that our business on Monday may not be January 22nd, ·1 960. Page 47 .

(Mr. Roblin, cont'd. ) .. so extensive as to require our meeting that early, and if there is any disposition among members to meet at 8: 00 o' clock instead we are also open to that proposal, but I thought I would like to take the opportunity of consulting with the members of the House be fore I put the motion to adjourn, Sir. MR. CAMPBELL: Mr.

Speaker, as far as we are concerned I think we usually find that the rural mem bers prefer to meet on Monday evening, and if it were a case of the business of the House not likely to conclude in one sitting then I could understand the wish of the government to proceed in the afternoon, but inasmuch as the Order Paper looks as though we would finish in one sitting, I would suggest that we adjourn until the evening though either one is all right but we prefer the evening. MR. PAULLEY: I think, Mr. Speaker, as far as our group is concerned, it is really im material.

I think though it was the past practice to sit Monday evening in order to give those mem bers out of town an opportunity of being at home and quite frankly it would be quite all right for me to meet at either 2: 30 or 8: 00 o'clock, but it has been past practice and unless there is any reason why we should meet at 2: 30 I'd suggest that maybe that could followfor this year. MR. ROBLIN: Well then I would take it, Sir, that--I'm sorry. lVIR. FROESE: Mr. Speaker, I would prefer that we meet in the evening. MR. ROBLIN: I take tt then, Mr.

Speaker, that it is the general feeling that 8 :00 o'clock would be satisfactory and with that in mind I beg to move, seconded by the,Honourable the.Min ister of Education that the House do now adjourn. Mr. Speaker· presented the motion and following a voice vote declared the motion carried and the House adjourned until 8: 00 o' clock Monday evening. Page 48. January 22nd, 1960.

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	26-2-4
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Volume / chapter	26th 2nd hansardpdf 4.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
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