Proceedings of the House of Assembly During the Second Session of the Twenty - ninth General Assembly of Newfoundland PRINTED IN CANADA BY GUARDIAN LIMITED , ST . JOHN ' S, NFLD.

Proceedings of the House of Assembly of Newfoundland Session 1950 House of Assembly, Wednesday, February 15, 1950. The Second Session of the Twenty­ Ninth General Assembly of Newfound­ land begun and holden at St. John's in the Province of Newfoundland on Wednesday, February 15th, 1950, at three of the clock in the afternoon . The House being assembled, His Honour, the Lieutenant-Governor, arrived in the Chamber and ascended the Throne at three of the clock in the afternoon, when he was especially pleased to deliver the Speech from the Throne. His Honour, The Honourable Sir Leonard Outerbridge, C.B.E., D.S.O.

Lieutenant-Governor MR. SPEAKER and MEMBERS OF THE HONOURABLE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY : My Ministers have continued to de­ vote themselves to the supreme task of bringing about the greater economic development of Newfoundland, and you will, I am sure, be pleased to know that important contacts have been made with certain men and or­ ganizations of great wealth and exper­ ience in the United States of America and Canada with a view to inducing their active interest in the economic possibilities of this Province.

My Min­ isters are hopeful thal these contacts will result in the production of much good for Newfoundland, and they are continuing their endeavours to estab­ lish such contacts with other organ­ izations of great means on the main ­ land of this continent. My Govern­ ment, for their own part, are embark­ ing this year upon a program of intensive economic measurement of some of the Province's natural re­ sources·.

A thorough-going program of measurement of our water-power potential will be energetically con­ ducted, as will also a concentrated drive, both by drilling and airborne magnet detection, on some of our more promising mineral areas. New­ foundland has lagged behind in the work of ascertaining as closely as may be the exact dimensions of her natural resources, and the intention now is to make up as quickly as pract­ icable for lost time.

These intensive searches for natural resources, and measurement of them, are fairly ex­ pensive projects but my Ministers feel that the exact knowledge thereby gain­ ed is a basic prerequisite to actual development. It is unfortunately the case that many of Newfoundland's natural re­ sources have in the past been alienated from the Crown for long periods and for little returns to the Public Trea­ sury . A very large proportion of the Province's public domain lies in pri­ vate hands which have done little or nothing to turn it to advantage for themselves or the public at large.

My Government are giving active thought to the problem of bringing such areas into productive use, and measures de­ signed to bring about that desirable result will in due course be laid be­ fore you for your approval. My Gov­ ernment are considering also the pro­ blem created in Newfoundland by the fact that very considerable parcels of land are lying idle and unproductive because the title in them lies in per­ sons who have removed themselves from the Province. In many of our towns and settlements, often in the most desirable sections, valuable land lies idle for this reason.

It is hoped to find a practicable solution of this

r E 8 1 4 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS problem, to the end that such idle land will be brought eventually into profitable use. My Government are fully aware of the position of agriculture in the Pro­ vince, and are giving close study to the problem of finding ways and means of assisting this important industry. Ex­ amination is being made of the pract­ icability of encouraging the establish­ ment of a sizable sheep -raising in­ dustry in Newfoundland, and also the desirability of introducing numbers of white-tailed deer to Newfoundland as a future source of meat to the people.

Initial steps have already been taken in both matters. In your deliberations of last year you approved the creation of three development loan boards: one for industries, and one for co-operatives , and one for fisheries. My Ministers hesitated to appoint the se boards un­ til they succeeded in securing the '"' v iLe, o( the right pcr5ons to pre­ side over them to direct their work. Negotiations have been proceeding with a gentleman of outstanding ex­ perience and ability, autl the ex­ pectation is that he will, before the present year passes, accept full-time chairmanship of these three loan boards.

You will be asked in this Session to vote sufficient funds to en­ able these three hoards to perform adequately the work which the Acts creating them direct them to do.

In the meanwhile my Government have lost no time in procuring detailed knowledge of a practical nature as to the most satisfactory type of fishing boats, fishing gear, engines and the like which these boards might be ex­ pected to encourage, and for some months past my Ministers have had a young fisherman of considerable pract­ ical experience touring Iceland , Eng­ land, Scotland and Norway observing and reporting upon the most satis- factory means used in their fisheries by those countries. He is at present touring Norway, and has yet to arrive in Denmark.

The detailed reports which he has already sent back to the Government are highly interesting, and will doubtless prove of very ~eat value when the Fisheries Develop­ ment Loan Board begins to function. My Government firmly believes that it would be shortsighted indeed tQ allow the present position on the mar­ keting side of the fisheries to deter them from proceeding energetically with their plans to encourage the in­ troduction of more modern and more efficient instruments of production in the basic industry of the Province.

The only sound outlook in Newfound­ land is that the fisheries must con­ tinue for many years to be the econo­ mic backbone of the Province, and that no temporary difficulty on the marketing side should be permitted to delay a long-overdue program of mod­ ermzat10n ot the fish-procludng and fish processing techniques that would iunease uinsiderably the quantity of fish that each fisherman is able to produce, and improve the forms of processing that the fish would receive after being removed from the water.

While energetic steps are being taken to encourage greater industrial devel­ opment, the fisheries themselves must not be forgotten. It is encouraging to note that the sealing industry will be prosecuted this year, after all; and the firms concerned are to be congratulated up­ on their courage in sending vessels to the Icefields this spring. My Govern­ ment have encouraged the effort with a contribution toward the cost of send­ ing an aircraft to the lcefields for seal­ spotting. It would be idle to ignore the pre­ sent unpromising prospects of mar-

FEB 1 5 11 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 5 keting primary products, or indeed any other commodities, in that great por­ tion of the world popularly known as the soft-currency area. All of the great countries of Europe wish to pur­ chase many products of Newfoundland and of the other Provinces of Canada, and of the United States of America and other lands who sell for hard­ currency, so-called.

Unfortunately for them, and equally unfortunately for us, those countries of Europe do not possess the , Canadian or American dollars to pay for the fish, oils, timber, pulp and paper, and ores that we are so anxious to sell to them. Lacking the necessary dollars to pay for these products, they cannot buy them; or at any rate, not in sufficient quantity to satisfy their own needs or to make profitable markets for the people living on this side of the Atlantic.

This situation has been growing worse for many months past, and it is be­ coming extremely difficult, when not altogether impossible, to make sales to Europe. And so the vast trade that used to exist between Europe and the Western Hemisphere has been drying up to a mere trickle, resulting in a stagnation of trade that threatens seriously to upset the economies of many parts of the New World and to hold back the natural growth of all the countries concerned. This is a situ­ ation which is quite beyond the con­ trol of any one nation in the world.

Newfoundland can only continue to hope that a solution will be found be­ fore economic conditions become much worse, and in the meanwhile do all in her power to get her own house in order so as to be able to trade suc­ cessfully in the years ahead, when the solution of the world's present trading problems is found. My Government took:

part in a no­ table Conference of Canadian and Pro­ vinicial Prime Ministers held at Ott,.. awa in January to work out a formula by which the constitution of Canada, in those parts which affect the Pro­ vince, can be amended without refer­ ence to the Parliament of the United Kingdom. My Prime Minister, and my Attorney General, and the Ministers of Finance and of Fisheries and Co­ operatives, who represented this Pro­ vince, took a strong stand against any change that might weaken the im­ portant minority rights written into the Terms of Union of Canada and Newfoundland. My Government will take

part in a very important Dom­ inion-Provincial Conference which is to be held at Ottawa in the coming Autumn, to discuss financial and eco­ nomic problems affecting the Pro­ vinces of Canada and the Canadian Government. Late last autumn the Royal Com­ mission on the Cost of Living was set up and is now engaged upon an in­ tensive and thoroughgoing investiga­ tion of the cause of the present high cost of living in Newfoundland.

Shortly after taking office my Gov­ ernment engaged the services of the firm of Peat, Marwick, Mitchell and Company, Chartered Accountants and specialists in public finance, to reor­ ganize the budgeting procedure and accounting system of the Province. Their report will be laid before you. Various matters requiring legisla­ tion will be laid before you in this Session, notably the problems of hous­ ing, fishermen's insurance, labour matters, and the tourist industry . I know that I can with confidence leave these and other important matters to your sound judgment and patriotic action .

I will later request you to vote Supply to His Majesty . . In these trying times, when at last the ill effects of the great war are making -themselves felt with such dis-

·r- I. p 11 r, l ... -..J ., 6 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS astrous power in some countries, and with somewhat discouraging force in all lands, we must all resolve not to yield to discouragement, but rather to face the future cheerfully, with deter. mination, with courage, and with a firm and humble faith in the Provid• ence that shapes our ends. I ask God's blessing upon your deliberations. His Honour, the Lieutenant-Gover­ nor, left the Chamber. MR.

SPEAKER : I have to inform the Members of the Honourable House that when His Honour, the Lieutenant­ Governor opened this Second Session of the Twenty-Ninth General Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland he was graciously pleased to deliver a Speech from the Throne of which I have obtained a copy. If it is the will and pleasure of the House that Mr. Clerk now read the Speech of His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor . Whereupon the Speech of His Hon­ our, the Lieutenant-Governor was read by Mr. Clerk. HON, LESLIE R. CURTIS (Attor­ ney General) : Mr.

Speaker, I would ask leave to introduce a bill entitled "An Act further to amend the Insur­ ance Companies' Act," and I would ask that that bill be now read a first time. MR. SPEAKER : Has the honour­ able Member leave to introduce this bill entitled "An Act further to amend the Insurance Companies' Act"? It is moved and seconded that this bill be now read a ffrst time. Whereupon this bill was read a. first time and ordered for a second reading upon tomorrow. MR. SPEAKER : I have received a letter from Mrs.

Penny in which she asks me to thank the Members of this House, through the Premier and the Leader of the Opposition, for the kindly tribute to the late Senator Penny, her husband. She asked me to say that this mark of respect will long be remembered by both herself and her daughter, MR. 0. L. VARDY: Mr. Speaker, I rise to move that a Committee be appointed to draw up an Address in reply to the gracious Speech with which His Honour, the Lieutenant­ Governor, has been pleased to open this Session of the Newfoundland Legislature, and in doing so, Mr.

Speaker, I presume it would be in order to make some brief reference to certain phases of the message contain­ ed within this Speech. I feel sure that all who have heard it will be very much impressed with it; not only wilh Lhe optimism which was the chief note throughout the entire speech. As is customary, I believe the speech might be takeu iu Lwu parls: unc, a Report of the Stewardship of the Gov­ ernment for the period since this House last met; and two, a forecast of the plans of the Government for the months that lie ahead.

I think that one of the things, Sir, that must have interested us most, and with which we would probably be very greatly concerned, was contained in the first part of the Speech, where we are told of the plans of the Gov­ ernment to bring about an economic measurement, I believe is the term used, of the potential resources of this Island Province of ours. I cannot help but think back, Mr. Speaker, to some years ago when I first became acquainted with the Pre• mier of this Province; it was during the days of the Commission Govern, ment, and I know at that time that

Frr.1r. L I.J I J HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 7 he was extremely critical of the failure of those in authority not to take ad­ vantage of the wonderful opportunity that they had to get once and for all what this Island possessed. I can re­ call his criticizing and making the statement that one of the first things that the Commission Government should have done was to have made available a fund of at least Five Million Dollars for a complete eco­ nomic exploration of the untapped resources, resources that were there in theory, probably that we didn't know about.

But, I know that, as a Newfound­ lander, I am sure every Newfoundland­ er has had the same feelings; has heard the same expression voiced all throughout his lifetime that New­ foundland has unlimited resources; unlimited resources of mines and min­ erals and various other items too num­ erous to mention, and now that, for the first time possibly in our history, a determined, energetic and ambitious effort is going to be made to determine to the satisfaction of each and every one of us just what we do possess; just what we possess that can be developed properly for the benefit of our people and for the benefit of the country, and in the final analysis for the bene­ fit now of our Nation.

It is gratifying, indeed, Mr. Speaker, to have watched from the sidelines and observed the energy and the de­ termination and the imagination with which the Premier and the Members of his Government have been tackling the problems that have presented themselves to them during the past few months.

Possibly I was more for­ tunate than most, in that I was priv­ ileged to observe those efforts from close range, but I do know, Sir, that if the people of Newfoundland as a whole were aware of the prodigious amount of effort that had been ex­ pended and the amount of midnight oil that has been burnt in this effort to solve the problems that confront this Province, I am sure that they would have a far different appreciation of the magnitude of the job with which any government that attempts to legislate for the benefit of its people has to deal.

I know, Sir, that the days that lie ahead, even as the present days, are very critical ones. I know that there are disappointments; I know that there are a lot of people who felt that after our change in Nationhood, if you like, was brought about that Newfoundland was going to embark upon an Era of "Milk and Honey;" but, on the other hand, I don't think that contention was ever voiced by those who advocated Confederation, nor do I think it was ever suggested that the advent of Confederation would serve as a panacea for all our ills; and that has not come about, Mr.

Speaker, but I do say this-that our position today, taking into consider­ ation the world situation and the other matters that are dealt with in this speech which we are now considering; that the position of Newfoundland is infinitely better; yes, you might even say a thousandfold better than it would have been had we attempted to steer along the course upon the un­ chartered waters of the "economic ocean." Fortunately for us, Sir, we have a bulwark behind us, and I think one of the best indications of that is shown in that this past Christmas when New­ foundland, if you like, was suffering its annual recession, a recession pro­ bably that was not so much in evidence during the boom years of the war, if you like, but which had become to be accepted in this Country at that par-

t r ' ,,. ,- • 8 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS ticular time of the year; when most of the basic industries are at a low ebb, had come to be accepted as the "de­ pressed" period; a period in which few of our people were actually work­ ing on a producing basis. And yet, despite that; despite continuation of that position again this year, I believe I make no mistake when I say that all the stores on Water Street experienced one of the greatest boom periods in their entire history.

Merchants have told me that the amount of buying this Christmas equalled, and in fact surpassed, anything they experienced during boom periods of the War. And so, Sir, there must be a reason for that. I don't think that it can be felt, or can be said that it was due to the natural income that was prevad­ ing at that time, but was due to the assistances being received from out­ side our shores. I think it was re­ flected in the Family Allowance, Un­ employment Assistance and the var­ ious other assistances that have been made available to us.

And now, Sir, having reached that stage, and having gone through the first phase, if you like, of the changeover period, we are now embarking upon a new phase, a phase which Newfoundland, through ils Government, has tu assume the responsibility for its determining where our economic future shall be directed, and I think, Sir, that the thought that has been put into the proposals as outlined in the Speech which we have just heard, and the ef­ forts and ingenuity if you like, that has been evidenced by the Prime Min­ ister, in particular, in his effort to interest American Capitalists in this country, and in fact to achieve his point so much so that already inves­ tigators have' reached our shores to begin the preliminaries.

What the outcome will be, it is hard to say.

I am sure even the Prime Min- ister, himself, wouldn't dare say that, but I do know he is imbued with op­ timism for the future of this coun­ try; with optimism for the Natural Re­ sources of this Country, and I know no one who can be so enthusiastic with those whom he has talked to from abroad, and I have a very deep feel­ ing that that individual who visited our shores very recently has gone back to his principals sharing some of that optimism anrl enthusi~sm which has almost been the exclusive prerogative of the Prime Minister, himself, but which, too, has been shared by the Members of his Government and also to a greater or lesser degree by other interested citizens throughout the Island.

And then, too, Sir, I know it is in­ teresting for us to observe that an effort will be made during the com­ ing months to restore to Newfound­ land some of its National Domain which has escaped it during the years that have gone by; areas of this coun­ try too vast to mention, which lie un­ productive, having no value for the simple reason that no attempt is be­ ing made or has been made to deter­ mine what that area can produce.

And now, Sir, a new approach is going to be made, and these areas are going to be restored to our Island; to our Province, so that they can be brought into product.ion if where­ withal or material to produce is found upon it, and that, Sir, I am sure is something which will meet with im­ mediate response from all those who have taken t.ime to give any thought to the matter at all. It is interesting to note, too, and I am sure that that is another matter which strikes a chord in the cars of all listeners, and it is the matter of Agriculture in this Country-. We real,

: .. HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 9 ize that Agriculture, while not consid­ ered one of the top-ranking industries, at the same time, according to the statistics of 1948, it ranks fourth.

It ranked fourth in the industries of this Country, but there again, we have the problem of the fact that only 8% of ~hose employed in Agricultu're in Newfoundland are employed on a full­ time basis; they are mostly part-time farmers, if you like, who are combin­ ing farming with fishing, logging and other activities, but nevertheless we do feel, and I am sure we agree in the Government when it suggests there is room for extensive improvement and extensive Agricultural facilities in this Island.

Only a few days ago I talked with an individual who is not an Agriculturist or professional farmer, but is one who has made a great hobby of Agriculture, and who has time to devote to the study of it; he is not interested so much with the financial return he receives from it, and he was pointing out to me the great advantages that could be accrued to the Island if only some method were determined to develop a "com­ mercial" blueberry. I know that sounds like an almost ridiculous thing to talk of; developing blueberries commercially when they grow wild all over the island, but, gentlemen, or, Mr.

Speaker, the out­ look toward even the blueberry rais­ ing has changed. Not only are those who harvest blueberries for profit content to go to scrub bushes and pick off these little pea beans now, they are being cultivated, raised on bushes four and five feet high, and producing blueberries the size of your thumb, so that one blueberry is equiv­ alent to several of the normal pea beans that grow. That is something that is being fostered in our neigh­ bouring provinces, and I fear for the market of the blueberry trade if that is permitted to develop in other prov­ inces and we ignore it.

The same applies to cranberries, closely allied to our partridge berry. That is something that can add to the national economy of a very large group of our Province. Then too, the Government Plan to introduce more extensive sheep rais­ ing ,and the introduction of the white­ tailed deer. Mr. Speaker, I know that any thing done to improve and increase the avail­ ability of food products in this Coun­ try is going to meet with the imme­ diate approval of all its citizens.

And then, too, Sir, the Speech re­ ferred to the fact that the Govern­ ment had not moved too rapidly in appointing the three Development Loan Boards, for which legislation was passed at the last sitting of this House, and I think, Sir, that the Gov­ ernment is to be commended for that attitude, particularly in view of the fact that they are dealing with Na­ tional Finance, with monies belonging to you and me and every other tax­ payer in this country, and I know it has instilled great confidence in the Government to realize they are not prepared to move until they have a man to place at the head of these; until they find a person in whom the Government will have the utmost con­ fidence in his administration.

And then the Government proposes to deal with the question of fisheries. Fisheries are, and will be for a long time to come, the National backbone of our Country; 28% of all gainfully employed Newfoundlanders are em­ ployed in fish, as against 7% in for­ estry, and 3% in mines; and yet, Sir, the income of that 28%, I regret to say,

10 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS does not compare with the income of those engaged in other activities, and that, I think, is reflected in a number of reasons. First of all, it has been said, and endorsed, and said very emphatically by the Premier, himself, that we are al least one hundred year~ behind the times in development and in the fish­ ing industry in our Country, and I think that is very obvious to every one of us; that the fishing operations are being conducted in the same way as they were in the days of our fore­ fathers and our forefathers' fore­ fathers.

In the rest of the world, great advances have been made here. I think great advances have been made in the frozen fish industry. Regard­ less of what has been done in the frozen fish industry, dried cod still con­ tinues to be the overwhelming bulk of the fish export of this Island.

Nev­ ertheless also, with the new markets that are being opened daily through­ O\lt the rest of the Dominion im<I par­ ticularly in the United States of America, I do know, Sir, in the Main­ land of our own Nation, fresh fish is almost an unknown quantity, for the simple reason that we do not have access to it; and even the old familiar dried cod is an unknown quantity, for the simple reason that no modern methods of packaging and distribution have been developed from our end.

There again, we come back to the same question we were discussing ear­ lier of the development of all lines along that line, and I believe we are very fortunate in having as head of that Ministry the Prime Minister, himself, because there is no one more keenly interested, no one who has more imagination and more initiative along those lines than he possesses, and I know he will not rest until he , sees his dreams brought into reality along those particular lines.

Of course, before any dreams can be brought into reality, it is realized that money must be made available, and while we do not possess sufficient money to do that, that is the primary motive behind the jaunts, I believe, that the Prime Min­ ister has been taking to South of the Border, in an effort to interest these people in this; along these lines as well as along the lines of mineral and other developments. And I know, Sir, that you would want me to say this House is pleased to know that the seal industry is not to be forgotten this year, although it is to be on a greatly reduced scale.

In the past, I can recall the days when as many as three thousand of our hardy sons went forth on the ice each year, and yet this year, they will prob­ ably be restricted to a. mere two hun­ dred. In those days, they went to the ice and brought back a kill with which they were able to maintain themselves until the Spring fishery came up, and then were able to gel iulo lhell" boats and resume the fishing of cod in their boats.

This year, there will be all too many who will continue to look to the Government for assistance until the Spring fishery opens up, and Sir, I think the Government should be congratulated for its decision to lend encouragement to those who have been brave enough to support the seal fish­ ery by sending boats to the ice, and the contribution of the Government in assisting in the provision of a seal spotting plane, which we hope will be all to the good. But, Mr.

Speaker, it is impossible to talk about the devel­ opment of the seal or cod fishery or any of the other National products of this Island, if we have to depend upon expecting markets in what is known as the "soft currency" markets of the world, and it is quite interesting to note.

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 13 Roosevelt put forth that he should be President of this, and said he had had experience in dealing with the wealthy nations for so long; he had dealt with potentates of so many countries, he felt he was the obvious one for the World Federation post; however, Mr. Chur­ chill had other ideas; he felt he should be President of this World Federation, and he gave his qualifications, with which Mr. Roosevelt agreed, and so, in order to settle the dispute he turned to Mr. Stalin and said : "Mr. Stalin, what do you think of it"? And Mr.

Stalin, after removing his pipe from his mouth and looking them over care­ fully, said : "Gentlemen, I haven't yet decided which of you I would want." I am not suggesting., Mr. Speaker, which of the three in Ottawa was Stalin, but, Mr. Speaker, these, Sir, are very stirring times. We today are suffering the effects from circum­ stances over which we have no control.

The same three Nations represented by the individuals I mentioned a moment ago are undergoing a period of great uncertainty, a period of international uncertainty, of international suspicion, of conflicts, of ideologies, conflicts that may come out into violent physical conflict at any time. Great efforts are being made to prevent that from hap­ pening, and I feel sure, Sir, that we all pray to God that their efforts will be successful.

As for ourselves, I believe that as we listened to that speech today that we could look forward, beneath the gloom of pervading conditions, with a realization that the "sun of optimism" still shines 1 and I believe, Sir, it be­ hooves us to take heart from the clos­ ing words of His Honour's Speech, when he bids us not to yield to dis­ couragement, but rather to face the future cheerfully, with determination, with courage, and with a firm and humble faith in the Providence that shapes our ends.

And I also might add, Sir, security in the knowledge that our Ship of State is in good hands, and that the Government under the inspired lead­ ership of our Prime Minister is striv­ ing night and day, energetically, am­ bitiously and intelligently, to keep us on an even keel and steer us into a safe harbour of International, Pro­ vincial and National Security. Thank you. PATRICK CANNING: Mr. Speak­ er, I have much pleasure in nsmg to second the motion as it is proposed by the Honourable Member for St. John's West. He has so ably covered the Speech, Sir, it leaves me with very little to say.

Like the Honourable Member said, the keynote of the Speech from the Throne is Economic Development, when today our industries in the past have been sadly neglected, and I am very proud to be associated this after­ noon with a Government that is go­ ing to go all out to do something about deserved plans. The Premier, in his past speeches, has said that we must develop or per­ ish, and no doubt that he and his Party have already made good strides towards the development. I know that we are all aware that they have a hard task ahead of them.

They are, as it were, starting from rock-bottom, but I feel confident that their efforts will be rewarded. We will at least know, when they carry out their policy already outlined in the Speech, we will know if we have resources. That, in itself, will be

14 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS something worth while. If we haven't got them, if they are not there, we'll just have to go elsewhere to live, but I feel confident that resources are there, and when they are properly de­ veloped, the efforts of the Government will be well rewarded. Our standard of living will be raised. The Standard of living in our Province will be raised to that of our sister Provinces . His Honour refers , in his Speech, to local boards being set up. If not al­ ready functioning, they are about to be. I would like lo touch briefly, Sir, on the loans to the fisheries.

Our fish­ ing industry has been sadly neglected. w·e are, :is the former speaker said, a hundred years behind, and I am sure, Sir, that when this policy goes over the wires tonight and finds its way to the Press, our fishermen will be very glad that there is something e·oinc to he, rlonr ~hont . the,ir inrlnstry. We, who arc so near to the greatest fishing ground in the world, have reaped the least. Nations, or ships from other Nations crossing the ocean, coming two or three thousand miles, are hett.er equipperl, more morlern­ izcd, and they arc reaping the bene­ fits from, if I may be allowed to say, our Banks.

Who is to blame for this? In the past, I don 't suppose it mattered much; the thing is, now the Govern­ ment is going to go out to do some­ thing about it, as they will with other industries. Too long our fishermen have been going to sea in rough wealher and smuolh in boats that were sometimes castaways from another na­ tion. Too often in the history of the past we have seen, and our headlines have shown : "The schooner so and so is drifted on the reef shores," and very often, unfortunately, the crew were lost. They drifted there be­ cause they didn't have the power.

Too often they were caught in storms be­ cause they had no radio, no wires. We had, in 1920, twenty-seven on the southwest coast and again in 1935, a serious disaster on the twenty-fifth of August. I feel confident, Sir, that I am not wrong when I say that if our boats in 1935 at least had had radios aboard them we would not have suffered the loss of forty men that day, and if they were large enough perhaps and strong enough to battle the seas, they would have gotten off. Now, with these loan boards, when they are handled properly, we no doubt will see much improvement in our industries.

Our resources will be tapped. As I said c:arlier, we will at least know what we have. Mr. Speaker, I finish my comments, Sir, by seconding the proposal already made by the Honourable Member from SL. Juhn"s Wcsl. MR. FRANK FOGWILL: Mr. Speaker, in nsmg to support, Sir, the motion that a Committee be appointed to draft an Address and Reply to the Speech from the Throne, first I would say that we congratulate the Honour­ able Member for St. John's West and also the Honourable Member for Pla­ centia West in the very able way in which they addressed this House. Now, of course, Mr.

Speaker, in this Second Session of the Twenty-ninth Assembly of Newfoundland, we are in a very different position than we were at this time last year. Our financial and economic condition has been changed greatly. We have not the same outlook today as the people of this Island had last year. I know, at this time last year, the people of this country expected very much more than what they have had.

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 11 I found this pamphlet, and in it is stated: "There is, in my opinion, no more serious economic problem in the world today than that in the Sterling and Dollar value areas, and in that respect Canada is more vulnerable than any other Country, so let's rally to the task, and this is one time when we are going hand in hand." Now that, Mr. Speaker , I am sure is very apropos to the situation today. I think, Sir, that we will realize that this International monetary situation is one that has vast repercussions, not only from this Country, but through­ out the entire world.

We, on this side of the water, find it extremely diffi­ cult to sell our products to those on the other side of the water who want them so badly for the simple reason that they are unable to pay us with the kind of currency which we can use. So, Sir, it is only with the hope that this International Market will be solved that these European markets can be restored, and, therefore, be made useful adjutants in world economy. At the present time, Sir, we cannot over­ look the fact that bad as the situation is, it could be much worse.

I think, Sfr, that I am probably in a position to know just how bad the situation is in Newfoundland with ref­ erence to unemployment which has been caused very largely as a result of this International situation. Dur­ ing the period since this House last met, the experiment of the Govern­ ment, which was approved in the last Session, to substitute work for dole has been carried on, and I don't think that there is any Member, Sir, of this House that needs to be acquainted with what has resulted from it. I think the unsolicited report that ap­ peared in the press is one of the best that has been received.

It has been done at very considerable cost to the Province. I might, with your per­ mission, Sir, quote some of the latest figures available at the date of Febru­ ary 13. At the present time, at that date, at least, "9,318 persons were still employed on Work Relief Projects in Newfoundland"; add to that 2,500 ap­ proximately as a result of their effort with the Work Relief Administration for unemployment assistance. That gives nearly 12,000 individuals who have sought assistance from the Gov­ ernment, during that period .

During the month of November, the Provincial Government paid $280,000 and $443,000; in December , $527,000, making a total of $1 ,250,000. Now gentlemen, that money has been spread over a vast area of this Island, in fact I feel sure that I make no mistake when I say that there is probably no community, Mr. Speake r, that has not shared in benefits from it. I might say that tho se districts which received the greatest benefits are as follows: (maybe I shouldn't use that expres­ sion): those districts which were in greatest need are as follows : the Dis­ trict of St.

John's East and West, in­ cluding Extern, Sir, shows we have at the present time 1,280 able-bodied men working on the Work Relief Projects; Bonavista North-612; White Bay-527; Placentia-St . Mary's- 537; St. Barbe- 540; Bonavista S'outh-511; this time, even St. George's Port au Port comes in for its recognition with 39. But I would point out that the dis­ tricts which I mentioned, seven in all, comprise nearly 50% of the total number that are on Work Relief Proj­ ects today. Mr. Speaker, this was a very splen­ did experiment.

I think it is impos­ sible to estimate in mere dollars and cents the value received from work be­ ing done, but I do say this work has been done in communities all over this

12 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Island, which have been neglected woe­ fully for the past twenty-five years . The work would probably never have been done, even under the Provincial Government of today, if this program had not been presented, because it was work which, while it should be done, needed to be done ; cried out to be done; it was something that did not come under the normal scope of work of the provinces. With the exception of the good work, the rest of it might be termed extra-curriculum, but, Sir, it was work that needed to be done, and which is of inestimable value to the communities involved.

Such work as the telephone lines; the linking of isolated communities with bridges; I could go on and list them by the hun­ dreds; various attempts made by com­ munities to better their own positions, and, Sir, it has worked out, I believe, to great advantage to this Province. I know, Sir, too, that ther e were mistakes, abuses, but I do believe they were in the minority, and the overall mujority of pcopk Leudiled grcally , and the morale of the individuals con ­ cerned was improved, and their living was improvr.cl, and that, I think, Sir, you will agree is the most important factor of all.

Now , Sir, Lite prospects are good; we hope for an increase in productive employment for the coming Summer, which is, l think , indicated in the speech we are considering by the fact that reference is made at least to the Housing Project, and while there is no reference to the Trans-Canada High­ way, I feel sure the Government is considering the continuation of that program and for the construction of sections of the highroad from here to Port-aux-Basques, and that, Sir, cannot but be helpful and lessen the load placed upon the Welfare Division of this Province, which it is carrying at the present time.

I was particularly impressed with the reference made in the Speech to the Provincial Conference held in Ot­ tawa. I was privileged to get in on the head of that conference and ob­ serve the representations of our rep­ resentatives, and Sir, I have no hesi­ tancy in saying that all those I came into contact with have the greatest re­ gard for the Premier; he is in a class by himself; and also for the Attorney General, the Minister of Finance and the Speaker, I believe Sir, by the roll that has been played in their contri­ butions made .

Therewith, Sir, despite that, I be­ lieve, and if one would restrict his ob­ servations to newspaper reports at the time, there were only three men at the conference; they were: Louis St. Laurent, Joey Smallwood and Duples­ sis.

I am not sure that I put them in their correct order of importance even at that, but I do say they were the "Big Three" in the conference, and I cannot but help compare t.hem in their sphere with another "Big Three" of some renown of not too ancient his­ tory-Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin, and again, I make no effort to com­ pare individuals involved, but after observing the actions of the represen­ t~ tives at that conference and receiving the reactions, if you like, from Mem­ bers of the Press who covered it, it is very obvious that that is a fair com­ parison in respect to their several im­ portance at that time.

And it reminds me, Mr. Speaker, not being too familiar with formal procedure, I do not know whether it is permissible to interject, but there is an event told of a meeting between Roosevelt and Stalin in Russia that might almost be applied to the "Big Three" in Ottawa, and it was at the time when they were talkiQg about the world federation. The late President

FE 8 1 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 15 I listened very attentively to the Hon­ ourable Member for St. John's West when he made the remark about the amount of money which was spent during the Christmas Season in St. John's. I wish to say, in my opinion, Mr. Speaker, the Christmas holiday is over . During the year, Newfoundland has experienced a recession in our fisheries and in our mines and for­ ests and in the farming industry. Much of this, no doubt, can be attributed to things over which we have no control; European markets which have been mentioned by the Honourable Min­ ister for St. John's West.

When he spoke of the fisheries and advance­ ment of the fishing industries by in­ troducing new methods in that indus­ try in Newfoundland, I wish that the Honourable Member would have spoken of market also, because when we realize in this Island that we have somewhere about three hundred thou­ sand quintals of salted cod still in stor­ age and unsold that is a great deal. Insofar as Agriculture is concerned, we have about four thousand five hundred regular farmers.

During past years, their efforts have been handi­ capped greatly by the influx of cheaper goods from the Maritimes, and partic­ ularly Prince Edward Island. These people need to be assisted and helped, if they are to survive competition from outside. To the Honourable Minister of Sup­ plies, the gentlemen charged with the task of setting selling prices, perhaps he might set a "floor price." Now, insofar as our land is con­ cerned in Agriculture, we have one hundred and twenty thousand acres of cleared land; seventy-six thousand of that is under cultivation. In respect to the unemployed, as I said before, Mr.

Speaker, all of our troubles cannot be attributed to the fact that there was a change in the status of this country, but a great many of our problems can be attribut­ ed to that fact. That is well known and realized by so many of our people, and I think that the Government of this land will realize it also.

Insofar as finances are concerned, during the last year, which is the first year in this transitional period, there is no doubt that the Government had to lay down a greater amount of money than they will have to do in future years, but, nevertheless, the fact that they have laid down so much on ordinary expenditure or current account, as we call it, and it appears, by the legislation passed in this House last year, that ox:dinary account will increase rather than decrease. I remember, Mr.

Speaker, in this House not long ago, a few years ago, when a gentleman in the National Convention informed this House and this country that Newfoundland as a province could operate on ordinary expenditure; that it would cost the Island just about fifteen million dol­ lars a year. That is a lot different than the story we have had the last year, and is going to be a lot different than the story in this coming year. If we realize that last year we collected lit­ tle over nine million dollars for 1948 Personal Income and Corporation Taxes, that amount will not be forth­ coming in 1950 and 1951.

Perhaps, as the Honourable Member for St. John's West said, when we spoke of the faith he had in the Leader of the Government, the Honourable the Premier, and he said that he did not think that there was any man in this land who had a greater imagination than the Honourable the Premier, I believe that; and I do hope, with the Honourable Member for St. John's

16 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS West and all of you on the other side of this House, that your dreams will come true, but wish to say this much in supporting this motion-that a Speech in Reply will be drafted; that when we go into the future that it will be with some hope that you, the first Government of this Newfoundland Province, that some of your dreams will be fulfilled, and that we will have some little semblance of financial stability, prosperity and happiness in this Island. Thank you. HON. J . R. SMALLWOOD (Prime Minister): Mr.

Speaker, I would like first to express my sympathy to the Opposition upon the unfortunate ab­ sence of their Leader from the House today, for reasons that are quite famil­ iar to most peoplP in Newfoundland, the fact, namely, that Mr. Higgins suffered an accident crossing the Gulf, and had one, if not more, of his ribs broken, and is, for that reason, in hos­ pi tnl ul Lhfa moment in the city of Sydney. We are indeed very sorry that the Leader of the Opposition is 1101 able to be here, and I feel that the Honourable the Junior Member for St.

John's East, Acting Leader of the Opposition as well as we here on the Governmem sitle of the House are genuinely sorry that Mr. Higgins is not able to be present. I would like also to say a word to express my admiration of the Member for St.

John's West and the Member for Placentia West for their fine ef­ forts in moving the motion now before the Chair. vVe on this side of the House are not superior to the Opposition in num­ bers only; I like to feel that we have here in these ranks mostly young, one or two older colleagues; my honour­ able friend the Minister of Provincial Affairs, one of the Veterans, in his seventies, I believe, but mostly young men.

At forty-nine, going on fifty, I am one of the older Members of this Government, and indeed there are only, except for the Honourable, the Minister of Provincial Affairs, two Members of the Government who are older than I, myself; quite a number of them younger, and men with consid­ erable speaking ability, as has been shown in the other Session, and will, I hope, be shown in the Session com­ mencing today.

Now the practice has been, down through the long years during which this House has functioned, for the Members on the Government side to move and second the motion that a Committee be appointed to draft an Address in Reply; for the Leader of the Opposition to speak to that mo­ tion, and for the Leader of the Gov­ ernment to reply to him before the morion is put.

In the past, the Leader of the Op­ position occupied anything from half­ an-hour to an hour criticizing the Speech; criticizing some of the things in the Speech, but more particularly criticizing its omissions; pointing nut that the Speech is more remarkable for what it did not contain than for what it did. A new system, a new principle seems to have been established here last year, when the Leader of the Opposition contented himself with a few remarks only of a very general character, and the Acting Leader of the Opposition has today followed that example.

The result, if that principle continues, is likely to be that the opening session of the House in the years ahead will be a most uninviting, most unexciting, indeed humdrum affair, quite unlike what has gone before when, from the

FEB 1 5 ' HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 17 drop of the flag, from the moment His Excellency left the Chamber, the row was on, not always a raucous row, but a good-spirited fight between Gov­ ernment and Opposition.

Provided always that row is con­ ducted as gentlemen conduct their rows, and you can call a man some terrible things in the most gentlemanly fashion; you can attack your opponent; you can hit him hip and thigh in the most polite manner, but, that row, if it is conducted in that fashion, is not only acceptable but desirable, because the Opposition, by talking, can help to clarify their own and the Opposi­ tion's minds, if that be possible, which it is not always. Yes. The difficulty is, you can't stir up this Opposition, Mr. Speaker.

You can't get a good-sized row started, and I am afraid, therefore, if the pattern in this Session follows that of the last, we are going to have to forget our hon­ ourable and friendly friends of the Opposition and fall back upon an an­ cient enemy opponent and friend, the Honourable and Independent Member for Ferryland, and if he doesn't pro­ vide some fireworks for this Session, it may turn out to be a very dull and dead Session of this House, quite un­ worthy of the dead men of the past. I have no great fears of the past, I think my honourable and gallant friend may be counted on in that re­ spect.

Now, my honourable friend, the Act­ ing Leader of the Opposition, made a remark which he is not the first to have said, as he will not be the last. I took his words down. He said : "The people expected very much more than they are getting." He may have access to the minds of our Newfound­ land people to an extent and in a way that we don't enjoy on this side, and I am prepared to admit that there may be people in Newfoundland who expected of Confederation much more than Confederation is giving.

On that point, before I pass on, I might go so far as to say that there are gentlemen in Newfoundland to­ night who did what they could to lead our people to expect from Confedera­ tion things which Confederation has not in fact brought, and I do not re­ fer in the main to the advocates of Confederation; I refer at this moment to the opponents who did all they could to lead our Newfoundla)ld peo­ ple to expect from Confederation many things which have not come, which Confederation has not brought.

I am rather glad indeed, I am very glad that Confederation has not brought these dire things promised by the opponents. Now, what is lacking in Confedera­ tion that the advocates of Confedera­ tion promised or said would be? I was one of the advocates of Confed­ eration. I say now, in the knowledge that my words would be broadcast to­ night in the Doyle News, the C.B.C. News, on V.O.C.M., in the Harvey News, the Terra Nova News Bulletin, in the li.nowledge that they will ap­ pear in· the Daily News tomorrow morning and the Evening Telegram tomorrow afternoon .

I say now that I never, at any time said or claimed, indicated or hinted, or implied that Confederation would solve this Island's problems; that it would solve the ec­ onomic problems, the main, the basic, almost the prime ordeal, the economic problem of Newfoundland. I never said it, because I never thought it, and I do not think it now. Anyone who supposed, and there may have been those who did, that Confederation would make Newfound­ land a "Land flowing with milk and

18 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS honey"; that it would abolish all need, all privation; that it would solve all our economic problems, was a very ignorant pernon indeed . He was not Jed by any advocates of Confederation of whom I know, of whom I have any knowledge to any such belief as that. There are two great things Confed­ eration can do for Newfoundland. I say this today; I said it over a period of two years-two great things . One is to bring Newfoundland into the Ca11at!ian family anti enlille lhe peopltt of Newfoundland, entitle them so they have a right to the social security benefits ~F r.onfederation.

Let's look for a rr • these. New- foundland is n, .thing over ten months a pro" . Canada .

In those ten months, .,overnment of Can- ada has P' J into Newfoundland and paid < w many thousands of our Newfoundland families in Family Al­ lowances, in Old Age Pensions, in Pen­ aiom lu lhe Dlirn.l, in U11empluy1m:11l Insurance, Unemployment Assistance, im:reaset! benefits to Veterans, over and above (and I refer only to the part that is over and above what they had before), increased (and again I refer only to the increase) pay to those New­ foundland Civil Servants whom they have taken over and whose pay they have increased, and those other New­ foundlanders who were not in any Civil Service but have become Federal Civil Servants, in pay to them and in increased pay to our Railway men.

Two millions a month, twenty million dollars in ten months. In the Burns' Night Dinner, no­ or was it? Yes, in the Burns' Night Dinner, a man (and I honour him for saying it), a man for whom the New­ foundland people have great regard and great respect, a man who opposed Confederation, Mr. Charles E. Hunt, declared publicly that though economic conditions in Newfoundland, as else­ where, but perhaps particularly in Newfoundland , were unfavourable, these conditions would have been, he said, regardless of the form of Govern­ ment, whatever the form of Govern­ ment had been .

A fair, honest and honourable thing to say, and all the more creditable, coming from a man, from a Newfoundlander who fought Confederation in c.onsc.ience because he didn't believe in it, and my hon­ ourable friends opposite, though they as well try to make politics-what is the use of being a politician? It is no use being a politician until you are smart enough to play it; better to stay out; far better to stay out. You wouldn't have had an Abraham Lin­ coln in the United States, or a Theo­ dore Roosevelt, or a Franklin D. Roose­ velt, or a Harry Truman, and you wouldn't have had a Winston Chur­ chill or a W. E.

Gladstone in Britain if' 11,,.y hadn't known how to play politics and play heller than their opponent knew , and outsmart them, and beat them every time. Now, it is not even good politics to try to make our Newfoundland people think that the present difficulty in selling iron ore in Europe would not have come if we had stayed out of Confederation . Will any of the mine workers in Bell Island believe that iron ore would have been easier to sell in Europe had we stayed out of union with Canada? No, they are too intelli­ gent.

Will the Pulp and Sulphite and the Paper Mill Workers of Grand Falls and Corner Brook seriously believe that they would have been better able to sell Sulphite Pulp if we had not had Confederation? They won't believe it; they'd laugh you out of Court for even suggesting it. They know the econ-

FEB 1 5 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 19 omics of their own industry too well for that. Now, I agree that our Newfoundland fishermen, because of the scattered nature of their dwelling, domicile, are not as well informed in certain matters of economics as are perhaps the more congested, concentrated min­ ers of Bell Island with their powerful Trade Union served and serviced by an International Union stretching across Canada and indeed into the United States.

So, it might perhaps be more possible to persuade some fishermen that the difficulty of sale of codfish, of salt cod in Europe, arises in any sense of degree from the fact that we are now a province of Can­ ada, as distinct from a year ago, but no intelligent, well-informed man is going to be deluded and deceived into believing that the difficulty of making sales of codfish, iron ore, newsprint paper, sulphite pulp, pit props, the various fish and animal oils, arises in any sense or degree from Confedera­ tion. As well say that Confederation of Newfoundland with Canada started this late war.

As well say that the very idea of union of Newfoundland and Canada started the first Great War, and started Hitlerism, and Fas­ cism in Italy and Communism in Rus­ sia, because who that knows anything doesn't know that the present Dollar­ Sterling situation was brought about by the fact of the first Great War, the events in between that flowed from the first Great War and the second Great War, that flowed from both, and the events subsequent to the second Great War. Now, we have got radio in New­ foundland today; our people are not so easy to fool.

I remember well in the depths of the first depression finding myself in the town of Victoria in Conception Bay. I was going around the Bay with a friend of mine, who didn't own but had rented a car from Hickman's. We stopped in the Public Square in Victoria, and there were five or eight or ten men standing around, lounging around, with no work, nothing to do. They came over to the car when I got out, and were soon joined by others, and before you knew it, there were seventy or eighty men. We got chatting, talking, and one of them said: "Mr. &mallwood, will you tell me one thing"?

I said: "If I can." He said: "Why did Squires bring this depression on Newfoundland"? I said: "That is a fair question, and I will give you a fair answer, just as fair as the ques­ tion, itself." "Squires" (and, of course, he referred, needless to say, to the Right Honourable Sir Richard Squires); "Squires," I said, "brought Newfoundland down to the depths of depression for the same reason that he brought the United States down into the depths of depression, and Canada down, and Brazil and Europe and two-thirds of the world." They all looked at me.

I said: "Does that answer your question?" They didn't follow me, they didn't understand me, and do you know why-because they did not know at that very moment that there was such a thing as a great depression in the United States. They did not, as a matter of fact, have ordinary average knowledge that in Canada there was a depression, in Europe, in Brazil. The Opposition of that day had a line of propaganda which was the logical line of political propaganda.

"Here's your man Squires, now look what he's done; now, why he's got the place ruined; he's looted and plundered; all the money's gone, and you have got to start over again."

20 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS That had tremendous strength in its simplicity, but was strong and pos­ sible to begin with, only because our Newfoundland people were not aware of what went on about them in the world. Today, in most every hamlet in Newfoundland there is at least one radio around which at night the com­ munity gather to hear the Doyle News; to hear this speech and that, and they know that there is such a thing; it is not an invention of the Speech from the Throne; it is not a cut propaganda dodge of this party. They know that there is such a thing as the Dollar­ Sterling situation.

They know it, be­ cause they listen, and they read, and they are far better informed, and so I say it is not even good politics to blame this Government or this House, or anyone in Newfoundland, or in­ deed anyone outside of Newfoundland; it is not entirely a maller for blame. It is a matter for-well, we won't go into that, what it is a matter for, but, it is certainly not a matter for hbm~; Lu say what made it difficult to sell our oil, pit props and news pulp paper; but it is not attributable to anyone in this Island, or in the Do­ minion of Canada, and I have lived with the problem for weeks past.

I have liveu with it 11ighl and day in the closest possible consultation with Nafel; with the Newfoundland Fish­ eries Board; with the Salt Codfish Association; with the Department of Trade and Commerce in Ottawa. I am on the telephone frequently to Ottawa. I have been up there, and when I was supposed to be talking Constitutional matters, the fact is, for the most part, we were quietly and privately doing what we could on this very matter of selling codfish in Eur­ ope, and sweating blood while we did it, and turning gray while we did it.

We are getting help, but not hin­ dr;w~e from Canada; not caused by Confederation. Perhaps Confedera­ tion may help to cure it, but it cer­ tainly did not cause it. Now, Mr. Speaker, my honourable friend, the Acting Leader of the Op­ position, says he hopes that our dreams on this side of the House will come true. Has not the honourable gen­ tleman noticed how apt our dreams are to come true? \,Vhy, all our dreams come tri.1e on this side of the House. MR. MILLER : When are you go­ ing to wake up? MR. SMALLWOOD: I might ask my honourable friend that. We are here; he is there.

I might ask when he is going to wake up. MR. FAHEY: When we get three jobs for every man in Newfoundland, then we will wake up. MR. SMALLWOOD more than wake up then. You will do Our clreams c:ome true. We clon't. lose; we wm, you see, and we will go on having dreams, in the hope that they'll all be as successful as our dreams up to now. Watch out when we start to dream I Watch out, we always win. We don't know yet what it is to lose, and if we go down-I say: if we go, oh, after twenty-five years or so of office, it will only be because we have spent our last strength; spent it all; there is none left.

Because we have no voice left, no vocal chords, no brain ability, no physical strength; we have worn our­ selves out; we have spent ourselves. Then you can bury us; you can bury us, but we'll have given all we have got and all we are and still fail maybe, but if we fail, it will not be for want of trying and spending ourselves-our­ selves, not our money; we haven't got any. There are only one or two men on this side of the House who have got any.

FEB 1 ; HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 21 MR. MILLER people's money. You spend the MR. SMALLWOOD : We spend our salaries, like my honourable friends on this side; we spend our salaries on ourselves. My friend here, being a lawyer, I imagine he would have more; my friend here, a business man. But the schoolteachers, ex-magistrates, peda­ gogues, plasterers, co-operative field workers, co-auditors, we have no money, so we can't spend our money; we haven't got any to spend, but we'll spend ourselves; night and day.

If we can't beat the other Governments, we will in one way, we'll work harder than they will; we'll be more uncon­ ventional; we'll be more undignified, and we'll work hard, and if we go down, it will be because we are not strong enough, and then we'll yield and yield gladly to any government or Party stronger than ourselves. Now, Mr. Speaker, never was there a nicer Opposition than the one op­ posite. Never, never, and never was there a more fearless Independent. MR. MILLER: Talk about the coun­ try; there's a lot to be said. Keep hopeful; don't be pessimistic; don't talk about failure. MR.

SMALLWOOD We'll not only talk about the country. Never was there a nicer Opposition, and we can hope, and I dare to express the hope that now that both sides of us have had one session of practical ex­ perience that we'll liven things up in this House for this Session. We are going to be here probably five or six or eight weeks. We won't have, in all probability, the heavy program of legislation we had last time.

That means we can have more time; have more debate on bills we bring before the House, and I hope that my hon­ ourable friends opposite will give again this Session the same kindly and co-operative consideration they did last Session, by which I don't mean they are not to attack us; attack our policies; they are. They are His Ma­ jesty's Loyal Opposition, and as such, it is their loyal duty to attack our policies where wrong, but they will give us deference, courtesy, the occa­ sional slap. What is a House without it?

But, there can be decency between us; friendliness between us; close col­ laboration and co-operation between us, and I think there will be. MR. SPEAKER : Is the House ready for the question? It is moved and seconded that a Committee be appointed to draft the Reply to the Speech from the Throne. Whereupon the motion was carried. I would appoint the following Mem­ bers to draft the Address : Mr. Vardy, Mr. Canning and Mr. Fogwill.

Hon. the Minister of Labour gave notice that he would on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following Bills : A Bill "An Act respecting the Right of Employees to organize and provide for Mediation and Conciliation of In­ dustrial Disputes." A Bill "An Act respecting Trade Unions." A Bill "An Act respecting Minimum Wages for Employees." Hon. the Minister of Natural Re­ sources gave notice that he would, on­ tomorrow, ask leave to introduce the following Bills : A Bill "An Act further to amend the Crown Lands Act, 1930." A Bill "An Act further to amend the Land Development Act, 1944."

22 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS MR. CASHIN : Mr. Speaker, I rise to a point of privilege this afternoon, and I want to assure you, Sir, and the Members of both sides of this House that far be it from me to mar the dignity, the solemnity and colour­ ful procedure which generally is at­ tributed and carried along in the opening of the Legislature annually.

However, a matter over which I have no control, none whatever, has been brought to my attention; a matter which I consider of very great impor­ tance, not only to myself, personally, but to every individual Member of this House, both on the Government side and the Opposition side. Through their experience, some people might say that this wasn't an appropriate moment to introduce such a matter, I.Jul, being lhal this after­ noon we have visitors in this House who represent probably the most out­ standing citizens of our country; lead­ ers in Church and State, I think really, Mr.

Speaker, that the matter on which I am about to speak to the Members of this House and Country generally could not be brought up at a more appropriate moment, and I refer now, Mr. Speaker, to an

article which ap­ peared in a periodical or weekly news­ paper on last Saturday and is dated February 19th. True it is, Mr. Speaker, in order to carry out parliamentary procedure, that such a matter has to be dealt with within a week of the time of ap­ pearance of such article. True it is that this

article concerns me, and true it is that I am the Senior Member of this House, and probably those who have been responsible for such an

article have picked on me as the Senior Member of the Legislaturr., and God knows, Mr. Speaker, where it will end. Therefore, while some may say to me "you are not playing good politics by bringing this matter to the Legislature," I feel throughout the length and breadth of Newfoundland I have had many political supporters and friends who have read this article, and expect from me today, at the opening of this Legislature, an ex­ planation of the contents of this vile attack upon me, and, as I said before, upon every Member of the House.

In order to carry out the rules of parliamentary procedure, it is neces­ sary for me, therefore, to read this article. It begins by a front-line an­ nouncement. CASHIN FRONTS FOR MONTREAL FIRM SEEKING TO BUY HOUSING CORP. PRICE OFFERED WAY TOO LOW Some officials of the St. John's Housing Corporation expressed con­ cern, recently, over report that a main­ lanJ fiuu, with heaJ uffiu::s iu Muul­ real, was negotiating to buy the local housing project. Spokesman for the mainland concern was Major Peter J. Cashin who, it is reported, offered to make a deal with the Government to buy the entire project.

The figure mentioned as a purchase price was, however, much too low. In fact, ac­ cording to reports, it was little more than a token amount compared with the actual cost of the scheme. Representative Sent Here Cashin, who has promoted many a scheme in his day, succeeded in inter­ esting the Montreal firm in the project to the extent that they sent represen­ tatives here to look over the lay of the land. Conferences were held with Government spokesmen and the var­ ious plans of the area were made avail­ able to the possible purchasers. How­ ever, when Cashin got around to mak-

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 23 ing an offer, on behalf of the main­ land outfit, it was discovered that they were anxious to get control of the property for little more than a song. Deal Fell Through As a result the deal fell through, much to the relief of certain Housing Corporation officials who were greatly concerned over the possibility that the project would fall into private hands, something which they considered would be far less desirable than keep­ ing it under Government control. This paper is published by a Com­ pany called the Sunday Herald Lim­ ited.

The Directors of that firm are Geoffrey Stirling, and Gordon Stirling, and these are the names of the Directors registered in the Supreme Court, February 8th, 1949. These are the individuals who are responsible for everything; in my opinion, for everything that appears in the "rag." Now, Mr. Speaker, I am going to explain any negotiations or any talks I had with Members of the Govern­ ment. I owe it to them, to myself, and to friends of mine throughout the country, and particularly to my loyal supporters in the Ferryland District, who have read this and expect of me some explanation. In this

article they say: "Some of­ ficial of the St. John's Housing Cor­ poration expressed concern over the fact that a Mainland firm in Montreal is negotiating to buy the local Hous­ ing Corporation." They go on to say that I represent the Mainland firm. I don't know the name of that firm yet. True, I discussed with the Premier, the honourable Minister of Justice and Minister of Finance the idea of buying the Housing Corpora­ tion. The Minister of Justice prom­ ised to get me plans and specifications of this Housing Corporation; I have yet to receive these plans, although this

article says I got them and handed them over to this Mainland Govern­ ment. I never represented any Gov­ ernment Company, but when talking to the Government a representative of an insurance company visited St. John's, and I talked with him as to what amount he thought his company would be prepared to put out on the St. John's Housing project. He is the only one I talked with . A life insurance company does not buy property.

A life insurance com­ pany's business is strictly to loan money as a first mortgage or second mortgage, but never does a life in­ surance company acquire real estate; they finance it; as a matter of fact, the Housing Project of the Canadian Government is largely financed by life insurance companies of Canada. That is the only person I discussed it with .

By coincidence, this gentleman knew much more than I did, and he asked me to get these plans , which I dis­ cussed with the Premier, Minister of Justice and Minister of Finance, and · which plans I have not received, nor evidently will not receive, and today , Mr.

Speaker, I am tabling further questions in connection with the Hous­ ing Corporation, and they will be directed to the Minister of Provincial Affairs, to table any matter in connec­ tion with the Housing Project, and, as far as I am concerned, they cannot produce the evidence, and I think the Minister of Provincial Affairs will agree that there is no offer from me in this regard. HON. JAMES J. SPRATT (Minis­ ter of Provincial Affairs)-That is right. I wish to make a few remarks. MR. SMALLWOOD-Or in any other Department.

24 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS MR. SPEAKER-Let me say that I do not know whether it will be in order for any other Member to make any remarks, other than a substantive motion. MR. CASHIN-Now, Mr. Speaker, I want to further point out that this journal, ever since it became a public organ, has stopped at nothing. No one is safe. It has invaded the sanc­ tuary of every home; created sorrow in many homes by personal effect in many homes. If I am to be the scape­ goat, I am prepared to be that.

I feel this is a matter that should receive the attention, and I say this with all my soul, not alone of the Members of this House, but of the Church, the school-teachers. everyone in this land, because the literature contained in this paper is not fit for children to read. It prospers on sen­ sationalism. Very seldom do you see anything in this publication which is literary, like the Uaily News, the Weekly Journal, or any other journal in the country. This attacks the sanc­ tuary of the home; attempts to tear the heart out of the widowed mother. My God, Mr.

Speaker, are we, the Members of this House, going to tol­ erate such filth? The Premier, in his closing remarks, said, asked for deference and courtesy. I think he said that the Members of the Opposition, of whom I am not a Member, gave him that courtesy and deference during the last Session. I don't think the Premier can charge me with not doing the same thing. MR. SMALLWOOD: No, never. MR. CASHIN : And I intend to do the same thing, but, Mr. Speaker, if we are to have deference, loyalty to Province and Nation, then we, as a Parliament, must condemn this sort of literature.

Consequently, this after­ noon, I propose to make the follow­ ing motion, and I have not asked any Member of this House to second it. I am an Independent Member, owing no loyalty to either Liberal or Con­ servative Party. I leave it to the Memben of the House to say whether the motion is justified or not, and it is as follows: Now, who knows but that this might only be the beginning of attacks on individuals of this House?

Who knows that the next issue of this newspaper or tabloid, whatever you like to call it, who knows but that the Member who proposed the Address in Reply to the Governor's Speech may not be the next one? Who knows, the following week the Premier, him­ self, might be the one. or the honour­ able Minister of Justice? MR. SMALLWOOD: I'm used to it. MR. CASHIN : Yes, but I want to make it clear that when a journal comes out and tries to deliberately falsify any efforts on my part, I re­ sent it with my very life.

If I were twenty-five years younger, I wouldu't be in here asking for a vote of cen­ sure, I would have horsewhipped the individuals responsible for its publi­ cation. I make the following motion: I move that this House consider this

article a gross breach of the priv­ ileges of this House, in that it is a false and scandalous libel on the repu­ tation of this House. I haven't arranged a seconder for this motion on either side of the House; I leave it to the Members on both sides of the House. l\·1R. SPEAKER : A complete copy of the newspaper in question will have to be tabled at this same in­ stance.

FEB J HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 25 MR. CASHIN : Yes, Mr. Speaker, I am very glad to get rid of it. MR . SPEAKER : As this is the first instance in this Parliament where an honourable Member has complained of being libeled by a newspaper, I feel it my bounden duty to make a brief outline of what is at stake in such a complaint, and shall say a word or two - about the procedure which I would recommend should be followed . I have read the

article in question. It is the final paragraph I understood the honourable Member to take ex­ ception to particular! y. He claims a Breach of Privilege of the Rights of the House. The privileges of Freedom of Speech is a right claimed by the Commons back I believe in 1621 where it said: "Let Freedom of Speech be the in­ heritance and birthright of the Sub­ ject." Therefore, the Freedom of Speech enjoyed by a Member of Parliament is the freedom of his constituents.

Furthermore, the Bill of Rights makes further mention of the Fredoom of Speech of members in asking ques­ tions, giving written notice of ques­ tions, and in all their parliamentary proceedings . Now, so far as I have been able to discover in my short few months of reading, I have not found that Courts have ever construed the term "pro­ ceedings in parliament", but I do know that both in England and in Canada they do cover asking of ques­ tions and giving written notice of such questions. I might say, as a word of warning, however, that it is not quite so clear on remarks made by Members in speeches in the House.

Now, in 1721, the House of Com­ mons made this resolution: "To pub­ lish a libel on a Member for, or re- lating to, his services in the House would constitute a high breach of rights and privileges of the Parliament. It also follows that libel, parlia­ mentary libel, need not be the same thing as, a libel at Common Law, for the question in parliamentary libel is not whether the

article or letter com­ plained of be false or scandalous; its falsity is not an essential element of the parliamentary libel, itself . Rather, is it of a defamatory character? Does it infringe the rights, and privileges of Parliament? Therefore, the question in this in­ stance is whether such defamation does exist. Furthermore, it is not the

article or letter which constitutes a Breach of Privilege, but the act of publishing or writing, or sending thereof. Regarding procedure, since this is a complaint of attack, I would like it to be understood that I am stating this without prejudice. Since an attack made on any Mem­ ber of the House is an attack on the House as a whole, it is, therefore, not the Speaker's duty to decide whether this party or that party be guilty or not guilty.

All the Speaker is called upon to do is to accept the honour­ able Member's complaint and decide, as far as he can from the facts afford­ ed to him, if a prima facie case exists, which in this instance I am in duty bound to do. Therefore, it falls upon this House whether it will take the complaint into consideration or not. For the guidance of the honourable Members, let me say that since 1909 it has been the practice in the Com­ mons of England, and Canada as well, to refer all such matter as this to a Committee of Privileges. I do, there­ fore, advise the House to follow that method of procedure.

26 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS It is my duty also to tell you that you may attempt, if you wish, to de­ cide the question here and now. I would recommend that it would be referred to a Committee of Privileges. Now, I might say, before I finish, that it is not competent for any Mem­ ber to make any remarks or criticize the speech made by the honourable Member. If the decision of the House is to set it aside altogether, the most that can be done is to move the orders of the day. If otherwise, to move that it be referred to the Committee of Privileges. MR. SPRATT: Mr.

Speaker, may I· have the privilege of making a few remarks, being the Minister of Pro­ vincial Affairs, having jurisdiction of Management of the Housing Corpora­ tion. pose it is incumbent upon me to move that it be referred to a Committee of Privilege, and that I do. I would be a little happier if I know just exactly what the procedure will become from that point on. Would a Committee of Privileges report back to the House? Would its report be debatable?

I do suggest that, while we must guard very jealously the righls uf the Members of this House, we must guard very jealously, just as jealously the right of the Free Press; we must guard both. Indeed, the Free Press might be more important than a Free Pa1·­ liament. I would move that the matter be referred Lu a Committee of Privil­ ege, which I assume Your Honour would name. MR. SPEAKER: I must interrupt MR . SPEAK.E•R ._ . . .

I might say it the honourable Mm1ster, as the only . _ . · b f h "h . - h h was foa that very 1eason-to safeguard question e ore t e ,, air 1s w et er _ . _ _ _ - ---- - --u - lli - - ~ 11 -- p 1- - - 1 . t- Llni Freedom .. of the --Press-that, , u- l ,e uu se wr cons ver lie comp mn l!.10!1, the Commons decided to discuss of the honourable Member for Ferry- land. There is no provision in the rules fur any other remarks. MR. SPRATT : It reflects on me; I want you to hear me out; I don't want people to think I had something to do with it. I merely want to talk for myself too. MR. CASHIN : My motion is there, too.

Haven't I a seconder? MR. SIPEAKER: The complaint of Breach of Privilege is not up to the Speaker to accept or refuse, it is en­ tirely up to the House. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker, I suppose the honourable and gallant Member for Ferryland cannot ask to have it referred to a Committee of Privileges. Because of that and know­ ing his anxiety in the matter, I sup- Lhose things in a Committee of Priv­ ilege. MR. CUR TIS : I'll second that, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: It has been moved and seconded that the complaint of Breach of Privilege be referred to a Committee of Privilege. Carried .

I would suggest the following Mem­ bers constitute the Committee of Privileges: Honourable Attorney General, Honourable Leader of the Opposi­ tion. MR. CUR TIS : Acting Leader of the Opposition? MR. SPEAKER: I have Mr. Fog­ will's name jotted down. The Com-

FEB 'JF-1 , 1 :1 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 27 mittee may not consist of more than seven, and should not consist of less than five members. The honourable Attorney General; Deputy Speaker; honourable Minister of Public Welfare; Mr. Fogwill; and in the absence of the honourable Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Miller. Notice of Questions MR. CASHIN : Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask the honourable the Premier to table the following information : 1.

(1) The total expenses incurred by himself in travelling expenses in his various trips to the Mainland and the U.S.A. from April 1st, 1949, to date.

(2) Table a written statement with respect to any negotiations which took place between himself as Leader of the Government and any American Companies or Syn­ dicates with respect to the devel­ opment of the Natural Resources of Newfoundland. Table all cor­ respondence, if any, between the Government and any of these Com­ panies or Syndicates regarding such development and the estab­ lishment of new industries .

(3) Table a statement informing the House from what source or sources it is anticipated receiving the sum of one million dollars for the establishment of a Newfound­ land University, as announced by him recently.

(4) Have any proposals been made to the Government regarding the establishment of a pulp and paper mill on the South West Coast? If so, table all correspondence in con­ nection with such proposal.

(5) Have any proposal or proposi­ tion been made to the Government with respect to further mining development on the North East Coast? If so, table all correspon­ dence between the Government and the proposed promoters with regard to such future development.

(6) What were the qualifications necessary for the appointment of the present Deputy Minister of Economic Development? Is the pre sent position temporary or an acting appointment? What posi­ tion in the Civil Service did the present Deputy Minister of Econ­ omic Development hold prior to his present appointment? 2. To ask the honourable the Prem­ ier and Minister of Economic Devel­ opment to table the following infor­ mation:

(1) Has the Government appointed a Chairman to carry out the duties as such of the Public Utilities Commission? If so, name the person so appointed-together with his qualifications and give the salary being paid for his ser­ vices.

(2) Has any further staff been appointed to carry out the func­ tions of this Commission? If so, give the names of the persons so appointed t-0gether with the salary each person is receiving.

(3) What plan or plans have the Government in mind in relation to further development of our Water Power facilities and if it is the intention of earmarking any specific amount of money to carry out such plans. 3. To ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Justice to table the following infonnation :

(1) What amount has been paid to Mr. P. J. Lewis, K.C., for fees,

28 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS expenses, etc., in connection with his services on behalf of the New­ foundland Government in the pre­ sentation of our claim for reduc­ tion in freight rates by the Can­ adian National Railway before the Royal Commission on Transporta­ tion and the Board of Transport Commissioners.

(2) Why was it necessary to pre­ sent such a case before the Com­ mission on Transportation and the Board of Transport Commissione1·s?

(3) Were any efforts made by the Government to have the matter ad-

(4) What plans are being made for the recording of the debates in the present session of the Assembly and what will be the apptoximate cost of such compila­ tion.

(5) Is it the intention of the Gov­ ernment to have the Hansard printed?

(6) Give any other particulars in connection with this particular matter . 5. To ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Finance to table a statement justed as hetween the Provincial showing the amount paid to the film Government of Newfoundland and of Messrs. Peat, Marwick, Mitchell the Federal Government? If not, and Company for its services in con­ why not? nection with reviewing the finances of

(4) Give a statement showing any the Province of Newfoundland-if other legal fees paid by the Gov- their work is now concluded and if ernment to othet'S of the Legal not when is it anticipated lhat such Profession apart from those em- work will be concluded. Also inform ployed by lhe Justice Department the House the amount of money paid _ aa_,llcll .aLL5t.>.tcmcuL,liu.wiug :...the - J.ltfa __ ilnn _ _ or_ it5--1:cp1e~cHldti vcs- [Ut'-- services rendered. general expenses iu addition to the fees charged. 4.

To ask the honourable the Min- ister of Justice or the appropriate Minister to table the following de­ tailed information : 6. Tu ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Finance to table the follow­ ing information : (

I) What progress has been made in compiling a Hansard of the Debates for the last session of the Assembly?

(2) What amount has been paid the Colonial Broadcasting Cor­ poration for services rendered in connection with the recording of the debates in the last session of the Assembly?

(3) How many employees have been engaged in the compiling of the Hansard-give the names of the persons so employed, together with the amounts paid each for services.

(1) The total ordinary revenue of the Province from April 1st, 1949, to January 31st, 1950. This information to be given under the various headings as outlined in the budget-but not to include in­ come and profits taxes collectable for the year 1948. Neither is the infmmation to include repayments by the Federal Government on account of stock, etc ., taken over at Gander Airport, Railway, etc,

(2) The total amount of subsidies as well as Transitional Grant paid by the Federal Government for the period mentioned as well as

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 29 the total of subisdies and Transi­ tional Grant due and payable up to March 31st, 1950.

(3) The total amount of repay­ ment made by the Federal Gov­ ment on account of Stock, etc ., fr0m Railway, Gander Airport, etc., from April 1st, 1949, to date as well as the total amount due the Province in this connection at the present time.

(4) The total expenditure of the Province for the period April 1st, 1949, to January 31st 1950. This means ordinary expenditure and is to be given under the various Departmental Headings. In addi­ tion table the total expenditure made on Capital Account under the various Departmental Head­ ings and inform the House the various purposes for which such Capital Expenditure was incurred.

(5) The total amount to the credit of the Province deposited with the Federal Government-what inter est is being paid and what interest has been received by the Treasury to date.

(6) Table a statement showing the earnings as well as total ex­ penses incurred by the Clarenville ships under the management of the Canadian National Railway. This information to be given for each individual vessel from April 1st, 1949, to date.

(7) Table a statement showing the earnings of the Clarenville ships as well as expenditures for the fiscal year 1948-49. This in­ formation to be given for each in­ dividual vessel.

(8) Inform the House what price was paid by the Canadian National Railway for three Clarenvi!le ves- sels-the names of these vessels so disposed of-has the money been paid by the Canadian National to the Treasury and have the vessels been transferred on the registry to the ownership of C.N.R. 7. To ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Finance to table the follow­ ing information :

(1) The total amount of actual cash to the credit of Exchequer Account in the Bank of Montreal or other banks as at January 31st, 1950

(2) The total amount of cash to the credit of the Board of Liquor Control in the Bank as at Jan­ uary 31st, 1950.

(3) The total amount of interest free loans due by the United King ­ dom Government as at January 31st, 1950-and also inform the House ,if any efforts have been made to have this money repaid to the Province of Newfoundland or if any effort has been made to collect interest in dollars on these outstanding loans from the United Kingdom Government. If not, why not?

(4) The total amount to the credit of the Newfoundland Government with the Crown Agents in Lon­ don as well as any other amounts that may be due by various branches of the United Kingdom Government . This information not to include an amount reserv ed at interest in London for the repay­ ment of a sterling loan maturing during the year 1952.

(5) The total amount held at in­ terest in London at the present time for the purpose of the re­ payment of the 1952 maturing loan -also inform the House the total

30 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS amount paid to redeem the British Loan which came due on Janu­ ary 1st, 1950, and what is the amount of the Loan maturing in 1952. 8. To ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Finance to table the following information : (

l) The total number of gallons or cases of rum purchased by the Board of Liquor Control since April 1st, 1949, to date.

(2) The value of this particular rum as per invoice. Give the name or names of firms from which the rum was purchased and also give the name or names of the local agents through whom this rum was sold.

(3) The total number of cases of whisky and gin and other liquors purchased by the Board of Liquor Control since April 1st, 1949, to uulc.

(4) The value of these particular liquors. Give the name or names of tht finns from whom the rum was purchased as well as the name or names of the local agents through whom the goods were sold.

(5) The number dozen beer pur­ chased by the Liquor Department from Mainland or American brt!W­ eries since April 1st, 1949. The total value of this particular beer. Give the name or names of the brewing companies from whom the beer was purchased as well as the name or names of the local agents through whom the goods were sold.

(6) Give the total quantity of beer purchased from the local breweries since April 1st, 1949, to date as well as the total value of such beer. Also inform the House what profit or commission the Board of Liquor Control receives in con­ nection with the sale and distri­ bution of this local beer. 9. To ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Finance to table the following information: (

l) Give the total sales of beers, wines and spirituous liquors made by the Board of Liquor Control from April 1st, 1949, to January 31st, 1950, as well as the total sales for the similar period l 948-49.

(2) Give a statement showing the actual net profit of the Board of Liquor Control for the fiscal year 1948-49.

(3) Give a statement showing the approximate value of all stocks of beers, wines and liquors held by the Roard of Liquor Control as at January !!1st, 1'150, a!i well as a similar statement showing the value of stock on hand at Ma1·ch 31st, 1949.

(4) Inform the House the total amount of cash transferred from the Board of Liquor Control to the Newfoundland Treasury from Ap­ ril 1st, 1949, to January 31st, 1950.

(5) Also inform the House what were the qualifications necessary fm the appointment to the Liquor Commission of the present Com­ missioners and also inform the House what experience if any, these same Commissioners had in business prior to their appoint­ ment to qualify either of them to take charge of the administration of a business which involves the handling of approximately six million dollars annually.

I _I i HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 31 10. To ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Finance to table the follow­ ing information :

(1) Give the number of licenses granted by the Department of Liquor Control to individuals or companies to sell beers and wines, since April 1st, 1949.

(2) Give the names of the persons or companies to whom such license, were granted and the places where. such taverns are located.

(3) Have any appointments been made by the Liquor Commission since its appointment around the first part of the present year to position s as Inspectors of Taverns, etc ., if so, give the names of the persons so appointed as well as the salaries these individuals are paid.

(4) What were the qualifications for such positions and were the vacancies advertised in . the Public Press, so that applications could be made by persons desirous of obtaining such positions? 11. To ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Finance to inform the House whether or not Dr. V. P.

Burke re­ cently appointed to the Canadian S'en­ ate is to continue receiving his Civil Service Pension or is such pension to be cancelled and become a drop-bal­ ance in the 1949-50 Estimates of Ex- "penditure. continued If the Pension is to be inform the House the amount of such Pension as well as the amount payable to Canadian Senators. 12. To ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Finance to table the following information :

(1) A copy of the Auditor General's R eport cove ring the final fiscal year of Commission Government from April 1st, 1949, to March 31st, 1949.

(2) Table a complete statement showing the following detailed in­ formation: (

a) The total amount both in sterling and dollars of the Pub­ lic Debt of Newfoundland ab­ sorbed by the Federal Govern­ ment on March 31st, 1949. (

b) The full amount of the Sinking Fund in sterling and dollar currency which was taken over by the Federal Government and devoted towards the reduc­ tion of our Sterling Debt. (

c) The net amount after Sink­ ing Fund in sterling and dollar currency has been deducted of the ind ebtedness of Newfound­ land absorbed by the Fed eral Government . 13. To ask the honour able the Min­ ist er of Provincial Affairs to table the following information : (

I) Tabl e a copy if any of any written offer made the Government by either a syndicate or a represen­ tative of such syndicate for the purchase of the assets of the St. John's H ousing Corporation .

(2) If such an offer as indicated has been made to the Government inform the House if this offer re­ ceived any consideration from the Government.

(3) Table a statement showing the names of the employees of the St. John's Housing Corpor ation to­ gether with the annual salaries be­ ing paid to each offi~ial.

(4) Table a statement showing the amount of sto res on hand owned by the St. John's Housing Cor­ poration.

(5) Give the names of the present Board of Directors of the St. John's

32 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Housing Corporation and infonn the House if any of these individ­ uals are in receipt of remuneration for their services. If any remuner­ ation is being paid, state to whom, and what is the amount of such remuneration.

(6) What annual rent is being paid the owners of the offices rented to the St. John's Housing Corporation on Water Street? Who are the owners of the building and has a lease agreement been made be­ tween the parties concerned. 14. To ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Provincial Affairs to table the following information :

(1) What amount is owed the Gov­ ernment as interest on loans ad­ vanced the St. John's Housing Cor­ poration or other housing corpora­ tions?

(2) What amount was arlvanred the S!t.. Jnhn's Housing Corporation by the Treasury since April l~t., 1949, to date?

(3) Have all houses that were un­ der construction been completed?

(4) How many houses are now for sale or rent by the St. John's Housing Corporation?

(5) Has the Government any in­ tention to reduce the high cost of any of these houses in order to dis­ pose of them and eventually dis­ pose of the entire property of the St. John's Housing Corporation.

(6) What amount is due the St. John's Housing Corporation by purchasers and tenants at the pres­ ent time? Are all rents being promptly collected?

(7) What is the total amount owed the Provincial Government in loans, interest and arrears of ren­ tals at the present time?

(8) What is the total cost and the number of employees of the St. John's Housing Corporation per annum?

(9) How many acres of vacant land are owned or controlled by the St. John 's Housing Corporation and what is the approximate market value of such land?

(10) Table a statement showing if it is the intention of the Govern­ ment to avail of the Federal Hous­ ing Plan and what plans have been or are to be made for the clearing of slum areas in St. John's and the erection of low-cost homes. What will be the cost to the Provincial Treasury of such a plan if put into effect and what would be the probable cost to the prospective purchaser of such a home or what woulcl he. the annual rental nn snch home. 15. To ask the honourable the Min ­ i~tcr of Provincial Affairs 01· llie ap­ propriate Minister to inform the House what amount of money was paid Professor R. A.

McKay or other per­ sons in connection with the compiling and publication of Book on Newfound­ land, which was distributed free of cost to the Members of the National Convention in 1946. 16. To ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Natural Resources to table the following information :

(1) The total amount expended by his Department for travelling ex­ penses since April 1st, 1949, to date-giving the particulars with respect to such expenses-that is the expenses incurred by himself and Mr. Steinhauer on their re-

[rg1r: r L: • : . , HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 33 cent trip to London-other ex­ penses in connection with expenses incurred in trips to the Mainland by both the Minister and other officials of his Department.

(2) Make a written statement with respect to negotiations in London regarding the possibility of making an exchange of pitprops for coal transaction and if any inducement had been held out to the Govern­ ment by the British Timber Con­ trol Board prior to this trip which justified such an expenditure. 17. To ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Public Works to table the fol­ lowing information :

(1) The total amount of money spent on the construction of new roads since April 1st, 1949, to date. In what districts were such roads constructed?

(2) The total amount spent on the maintenance and upkeep of high­ roads and local roads?

(3) Table a statement of arrange­ ments made with the Federal Gov­ ernment with respect to the con­ struction of a cross country road in Newfoundland.

(4) Inform the House what are the specifications of the proposed trans-Island highway and give an estimate as to the probable cost of this particular highway to the Newfoundland Treasury .

(5) Has a contract been awarded to any company for construction of any portion of this highway? If so, what is the approximate cost and .how many miles have been awarded for construction during the present year?

(6) Will the total cost to the New­ foundland Treasury for this par- ticular highway be specially set aside from our present surplus for the purpose of constructing this road?

(7) Table a statement showing the total cost of the upkeep of Gov­ enunent House and Grounds, to­ gether with rep airs to the building since April 1st, 1949, to date .

(8) Table a statement showing the total amount expended on the con­ struction of public buildings, hos­ pitals, etc., specifying the amount spent on each building since April 1st, 1949, to date. Also inform the House what will be the amount necessary to complete the con­ struction of the various individual hospitals, etc., now under contract or being built under the super­ vision of the Government. In ad­ dition give information re the salaries or fees being paid the var­ ious persons supervising the said construction and the amount of such fees paid to date.

(9) Give a statement showing the total expenditure for travelling ex­ penses incurred by the Minister and other officials of the Depart­ ment in trips to the Mainland and other places since April 1st, 1949, to date. 18. To ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Public Works or the appro­ priate Minister to table the following information :

(1) Have any negotiations taken place between the Government and one of the mining companies at St. Lawrence with respect to fin­ ancial assistanc e for the purpose of continuing operations .

(2) Has the Government indicated or given any indication that a fin-

34 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS ancial guarantee would be forth­ coming or that a guarantee of fin­ ancial help is already given and if so what is the amount of such guarantee.

(3) If a guarantee of financial help has been given, what security has the government been given-what are the assets of the company and what are the prospects for the mar­ keting of the product and of con­ tinued employment for the miners engaged with this company. Table all particulars with reference to any negotiations with this partic­ ular company. 19. To ask the Administrator of Pub­ lic Relief Works or the Minister of Public Welfare to table the following information : (

l) The average number of men employed at Relief Work in each district, giving the number and names of districts such men were employed.

(2) Give the names of the superin­ tendents or foremen in each dis­ trict and the amount of monthly pay each such person receives.

(3) What pay or remuneration is the Administrator of Relief receiv­ ing? How many persons are em­ ployed in this particular depart­ ment? Give the names of such persons and the amount of remun­ eration each receives. This refers to the Headquarters Office in St. John's. 20. To ask the Administrator of Pub­ lic Relief Works or the appropriate Minister to table the following infor­ mation: (

I) On what official business did the Administator of Relief visit Ottawa and parts of the U.S.A. recently?

(2) Did the Administrator of Re­ lief Works make any report to the Government on his return? If so, table a copy of such report.

(3) Was his visit in any way for the purpose of discussing the hous­ ing situation with the Federal authorities? If so, give an outline to the House of the discussions and a review of the plan, if any proposed to deal with the matter.

(4) Has the housing problem been transferred from the Department of Provincial Affairs? If so, give full particulars of such transfer and why such a plan is not to be incorporated in the administration of the St. John's Housing Corpora­ tion. 21. To ask the honournhle the Min­ ister of Fisheries and Co-operatives and/or the appropriate Minister to table the following information :

(1) The total amount of each in­ clividual original Joan grantr.<l hy the late Commission Government to the various individual fishing companies-the present amount due by each of these individual com­ panies-what interest is being charged? Are any of the compan­ ies in arrears of interest payments? Have any of these companies been requested by the Government to furnish an audited statement of its financial affairs-if so, to table a copy of such financial statement and if any company is in arrears of interest charges, what steps are being taken by the Government to collect such interest?

In short to table all detailed information of the present indebtedness to the Government of these various com­ panies.

(2) Table a statement showing the total amount of travelling expenses

FEB 1 ~ HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 35 incurred by the Minister and other individual officers of this Depart­ ment for trips to the Mainland and other countries on official business from April 1st, 1949, to date.

(3) Inform the House what quali­ fications were necessary for the ap­ pointment of the present Deputy Minister of Fisheries and Co-opera­ tives. Did the present Deputy Minister have any experience in the fishery business of Newfound­ land prior to his appointment and inform the House what Civil S'er­ vice position he held prior to his 4 present appointment. 22. To ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Fisheries and Co-operatives to table the following information :

(1) Has any agreement been en­ tered into between the Government and a company of Icelandic Fish­ ery Operators with respect to the development of the fisheries of Newfoundland?

(2) Has a company been incorpor­ ated by any Icelandic group in Newfoundland for purposes of carrying on a fishery business? If so, give particulars of the com­ pany-who are the directors and what is the paid up capital of such company?

(3) Has the Newfoundland Provin­ cial Government guaranteed any financial help to this company? If so, what amount has the Govern­ ment guaranteed? In short, table all correspondence involving any negotiations between the Govern­ ment and this Icelandic group. 23. To ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Fisheries and Co-operatives to table the following information :

(1) Has the Government received a petition from certain fishermen in Conception Bay asking that a floor ceiling be placed on the price of Labrador fish caught during the the year 1950? If so, table a copy of such petition and inform the House what action, if any, is being taken by the Government relative to this matter.

(2) Inform the House, the num­ ber of quintals of Labrador and Shore fish held in Newfoundland at the present time and advise the possibilities of disposing of this fish-particularly the Labrador fish.

(3) Has the Government discussed the matter of the conversion of sterling exchange in payment of our fishery products with the Fed­ eral authorities, and if so info rm the House what progress has been made in this respect? 24. To ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Public Health ro table the following information : (

I) When it is intended to com­ mence the construction of the cot­ tage hospital in Ferryland district as promised by the Government in the last session of the House of Assembly?

(2) Will the hospital be construct­ ed in the settlement of Renews as outlined by the honourable Mr. Quinton at a public meeting in that place when he was Minister of Public Health last autumn? If not, why not? And what place is it intended to construct this hos­ pital?

(3) Give a statement showing the amount of travelling expenses in­ curred by the Department of Pub­ lic Health by the Minister of

36 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Health and other officials in trips to the Mainland since April 1st, 1949, to date.

(4) How many new appointments have been made in the Depart­ ment since April 1st, 1949, to date? Were the positions advertised through the public press? Give the salaries paid the various new appointees. Also inform the House the total number of employees in the Department as well as the total annual salaries of these em­ ployees. 25. To ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Public Welfare Lo table the following information :

(1) Give a statement showing the total amount of Abie Bodied Re­ lief distributed throughout the country since April 1st, 1949, to date-as well as a similar statement for the fiscal years 1948-49. This information is requested to be given showing the amount of ex­ penditure for such relief in each electoral district.

(2) Give a statement showing the total number of Old Age Pension­ ers now receiving Pensions through­ out the Province. This informa­ tion is to be given showing the number in each electoral district.

(3) What is the total cost to the Province of Newfoundland for its portion of Old Age Pension and what amount is it anticipated it will cost the Province in the fiscal year 1950-51.

(4) Give the total number of em­ ployees in the Department of Pub­ lic Welfare and inform the House the number of new employees en­ gaged since April 1st, 1949, to date. Also inform the House whether or not such new appointments or vacancies were advertised in the public press. Give the salaries paid to each of these new employees and finally give the total number of employees now under pay in the Department.

(5) Give a statement showing the total expenditure for travelling ex­ penses for the Minister and other officials on trips to the Mainland since the advent of Confederation with the Dominion. 26. To ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Supply to table the following detailed information :

(1) The names of the individuals that composed the Commission of Enquiry into the cost of bread. The amount paid to each of the appointed Commissioners for serv­ ices rendered and to inform the House whether or not the result of the Inquiry has been instrumen­ tal in recluc.ing the cost of bread to the consumer. The total cost to the Treasury of this particula1· inquiry.

(2) The names of the members of the Royal Commission appointed by the Government to investigate the Cost of Living-the salaries or fees being paid these particular Commissioners per day or per month_

(3) The names of the individuals exclusive of Newfoundlanders em­ ployed to assist the Commission in its work, as well as the salaries or fees being paid these officials per day or per month.

(4) Are the Commissioners and assistants exclusive of Newfound­ land Commissioners being paid ex­ penses in addition to their -fees or salaries? If so, what amount of expenses is each receiving?

f[B HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 37

(5) When is it anticipated that the Commission will finish its work and what has the Commission cost the Treasury to date and what is the anticipated total cost of this Commission when its work is fin­ ally concluded? MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker, in rising to move the adjournment of the House until tomorrow, Wednesday, the twenty-second, I would like to direct the attention of the House to the new system of Hansard reporting which we have introduced, for the first time in Newfoundland's history.

The experiment of reporting speech­ es electrically on tapes last Session proved to be too slow-practiq1.ble, yes,-a bit expensive, but above all too slow, because, gentlemen, they have succeeded in transcribing by type­ writer only about half of the proceed­ i~gs · of the last Session. The half done; is done, I would think, better than ever in the history of this House: more thoroughly, more accurately, but the system this time is that of the Stenotype.

The young lady in the northwest corner of this Chamber, concealed in part, at least, behind the curtain (not the Iron Curtain) , is operating a most interesting mach­ ine; as I am speaking, is taking every word on that machine, as she has done every word spoken here this afternoon on a most interesting machine, which Members should take a look at when the House rises. It is hand-done, the mechanical way.

The actual keys on the machine are some­ thing like a typewriter, and if it were necessary, I understand she could have for us tomorrow a complete typewrit­ ten verbatim report of every word spoken here this afternoon. It is a very modern, in fact most modern method. This young lady has been brought here by us from the City of Montreal for two purposes : one, to record this year's Session; two, to train two New­ foundlanders in the art of Stenotype writing; one of them, a Miss Murphy from Argentia; the other, a Mr.

Young from the City here, who, in the next few weeks will receive an intensive course of instruction from this young lady, and who, we hope, as a result of that instruction and intensive prac­ tice on their own part, will in future, after this Session, be able to report the Session of the House, and indeed of Courts, of Commissions of Inquiry, of Conventions, of Trade Unions and Federations of Labour and other or­ ganizations.

We will all, I am quite sure, follow the progress of this new method, and in the hope that it will prove efficient and economic, and that we will be enabled to save quite a bit of money on the Public Chest. With regard to the adjournment, Mr. Speaker, the reason for it is that we have been asked by the honourable, the Leader of the Opposition, for that favour.

In fact he asked just a little too late; we had issued the Proclama­ tion, or rather His Honour the Lieu­ tenant-Governor, I ought to say, had issued the Proclamation, on our advice, calling the House together on today, and it was the day after the Proclama­ tion was issued that the Leader of the Opposition asked us to advise His Honour to call the House together not today but on the twenty-second.

It was too late, because the Proclamation was issued, but in deference to his wish, and in a desire to be courteous and co-operative with the honourable gen­ tlemen on the other side, we are mov­ ing now adjournment to tomorrow, Wednesday, the twenty-second, which should give my honourable friends

FEB : ;· 38 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS ample time to study the Speech from the Throne, and to prepare their ad­ dresses so that when the House meets then we can go immediately into the debate on the Address in Reply, by which time, incidentally, we do all of us, I am quite sure, hope he will be fully recovered from the broken ribs . MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that when the House rises it do stand adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, the twenty-second, at three of the clock. The House then adjourned accord­ ingly. Wednesday, February 22, 1950.

The House met at three o'clock in the afternoon, pursuant to adjourn­ ment. HON. J. R. SMALLWOOD (Prime Minister): At the 1949 Session of the Legislature, Mr.

Speaker, 1 made a statement on freii;,;ht rates charged in Newfoundland by the Canadian Nat­ ional Railway Company, and intimated that the Government proposed to ask the Board of Transport Commissioners for an answer to the question: "What does Clause 32 of the Terms of Union mean?" It was and is the Government's view that Clause 32, and especially sub­ section (2) of that Clause, was inserted in the Terms of Union to give effect to the understanding reached in Ott­ awa, when the Terms of Union were being negotiated, that Newfoundland would, for regulation of railway rates, be placed in the Maritime region and would get what the Maritime Provinces had, "no more and no less." The Board of Transport Commiss­ ioners have ruled that the Tenn in question does not convey that meaning, which is simply to say that the inten­ tion and understanding reached at Ottawa were not effected in the Term in question.

The Government's duty now is clear. It is to approach the Government of Canada with a formal request to carry out the intention and purpose agreed upon in Ottawa but not, so it now appears, written into the Terms of Union with the necessary clarity. The Government will approach the Government of Canada, and will do so with confidence in the absolute sound­ ness of Newfoundland's claim to have the freight rates obtained from time to time in the Maritime Provinces, no more and no less. While I am on my feet, Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to table a copy of the re­ port by Messrs.

Peat, Marwick, Mitc­ hell and Company on the financial position of the Province and survey of the Di,partmenl. MR. CASHIN : Mr. Speaker, with reference to the Premier's statement reganli11g freight rates, can we, in terms of Union-do I take it now, when the Government approaches the Dominion Government with respect to

Section 32 of the Terms of Union, do I take it that the Government are not accepting the judgment handed down by the Board of Commissioners the other day, and consequently, do I have to infer that when the ruling of this Board of Commissioners was made that we have got to renege, in other words,

Section 32 with the Federal Govern­ ment? MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Premier, be­ fore you begin, may I say that this statement given by the honourable Premier is not debatable at this mo­ ment, however, questions may be asked.

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 39 MR. SMALLWOOD: Under the ress in Reply to the Speech from the provisions of the Railway Act of Can­ ada, judgments of the Board of Trans­ port Commissioners may be appealed either to the Supreme Court of Can­ ada or His Excellency the Governor­ General in Council. meaning, of course, in practice, the Government o( Canada. As my statement indicated, it is the intention of this Government to appeal the judgment and to appeal it to the Governor- General in Council. MR. CASHIN: Mr. Speaker, you say this matter is not debatable at the moment? MR.

SPEAKER : No, the Premier merely made a statement. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker, I should like to lay on the table a signed copy of Controller Jelles' report, a copy for the 5th of March, 1949, and should like to add, Sir, that a copy of this report is available for distribution to all Members of the Assembly. HON. S. J. HEFFERTON (Minister of Education) : Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to lay on the table a copy of the Annual Report of the Department of Education, containing a general review covering the year I 949 and a copy for the year ending 1948.

Also a copy of the regulations issued under the Edu­ cation Amendment Act of 1949. Presenting Petitions Honourable the Minister of Fisheries and Co-operatives presented a petition relating to the Trans-Canada High­ way and the route that it would likely follow through the Province. Reports of Standing and Select Committees MR. VARDY: The Select Com­ mittee appointed to draw up an Add- Throne begs leave to recommend that the following be presented to His Hon­ our The Honourable Sir Leonard Out­ erbridge, C.B.E., D.S.O., Lieutenant­ Governor: "May it please Your Honour.

We, the Commons of Newfoundland, in Legislature Session assembled, beg to thank Your Honour for the gracious speech Your Honour presented to this House. (Sgd.) Oliver L. Vardy Patrick J. Canning Frank D . Fogwill. February 22, 1950. Moved and seconded that this re­ port be received and adopted. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker, it is not, I take it, the desire of the House to proceed at once with the debate on the Address in Reply, and if it is the pleasure of the House, I would suggest that it lie over until later in this present sitting of the House , so that we may proceed with the Order Paper. MR.

SPEAKER : It is the pleasure of the House to adopt the suggestion of the honourable Premier. Notice of Motions and Questions MR. CASHIN: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask the honourable the Minister of Fisheries and Co-operatives to table the following information : 27. (

I) What amount if any has been loaned to any company or companies since April 1st, 1949 to date for the purpose of encourage­ ment of the development of fish­ ing industries in the Province of Newfoundland.

40 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

(2) If any amount or amounts have been loaned such companies give the name or names of these companies together with the speci­ fic amount loaned each company -also the terms and conditions under which such loans or advances have been made.

(2) The total amount on deposit with the Newfoundland Savings Bank as well as a statement show­ ing the total assets of the Bank and the manner in which such assets are invested . 30. To ask the honourable the Min­ ister of Provincial Affairs to table the 28. To ask the honourable the following information : Minister of Fisheries and Co-opera­ tives to inform the House whether or not the Government has made any loan or advance to the Lourdes Co­ operative Society since April 1st, 1949. If so, give the amount of such advance or loan and any ot