Manitoba Hansard — 24 November 1977 (Sitting 1, 31st Legislature, 1st Session)

31-1-1

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session - Thirty-First Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Vol. XXV No. 1 26 Elizabeth 11 Published under the authority of The Honourable Harry E. Graham Speaker 2:30 p.m.Thursday, November 24, 1977 Printed by P. N. Crosbie - Queens Printer for the Province of Manitoba

Time: 2:30 p.m. THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY of MANITOBA Thu rsday, November 24, 1977 The Sergeant-at-Arms carrying the Mace on the crook of his arm and followed by the Clerks of the Legislative Assembly entered the House. The Sergeant-at-Arms proceeded to the main entrance of the House and the Clerks took post on the west side of the House, stood and awaited the arrival of His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor. DEPUTY SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor.

The Lieutenant-Governor entered the Chamber and then, preceded by the Mace carried shoulder high, and followed on his left by the Military Aide and on his right by the Civil Aide, proceeded along the west side of the Chamber to the Throne. The Premier proceeded along the east side of the Chamber and stood on the floor on the east side of the Chamber. The Military Aide took up his position on the right of the Throne and the Civil Aide took up his position on the west side of the Chamber. The Lieutenant-Governor then seated himself on the Throne, the Mace made obeisance and retired to the east side of the Chamber.

HONOURABLE GERALD W. J. MERCIER, Attorney-General (Osborne): I am commanded by His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor to state that he does not see fit to declare the cause of the summoning of the present Legislature of this province until a Speaker of this House shall have been chosen according to law. The Mace then made obeisance before the Lieutenant-Governor and preceded His Honour along the east side of the Chamber to the Bar of the House, accompanied by the Premier and the Aides. The Mace returned from the Bar of the House and was placed under the Table.

The Premier returned to his seat in the House, and the Clerks took their chairs at the Table. ELECTION OF SPEAKER HONOURABLE STERLING R. LYON, Premier (Charleswood): Mr. Clerk, I move, seconded by the Honourable Leader of the Opposition, that a distinguished member of this House, a veteran member of the Legislature, Harry E. Graham, Esquire, member for the Electoral Division of Birtle-Russell, do take the Chair of this House as Speaker. MOTION presented and carried and the Honourable Harry E. Graham, Esquire, member for the Electoral Division of Birtle-Russell duly elected to the Chair of the House.

The Speaker was conducted to the Chair by the Mover and Seconder and was invested with the Robes of Office MR. SPEAKER, Honourable Harry E. Graham (Birtle-Russell): Honourable Members of the Thirty First Legislature, I am not unmindful of the honour which you have conferred on me today in electing me to the highest office within the gist of the Assembly, that of your Speaker and your servant. It will be my aim and duty to uphold the principles and traditions of the House and secure for each member the right to express his or her opin ions within the limits necessary to preserve decorum.

To recognize the rights and privileges of the honourable members, the political groups and the House itself. To facilitate the transaction of the public business in an orderly manner and above all to seek to be fair and impartial in the decisions you entrust to me. If these are your objectives, and I believe they are, I ask your patience and co-operation in approaching them. I deeply appreciate your actions in elevating me to the Speaker's Chair. With your assistance I hope to fulfil! this commi tment with dignity and honour. The Mace was placed on the Table.

The Premier left the Chamber to meet His Honour in the reception room. The Attorney-General took post on the east side of the Chamber, the Clerks on the west. The Mace proceeded to the Bar of the House to meet His Honour, who re-entered the House, accompanied by his Aides and the Premier, as on his first entry, and the Speaker left the Chair and stood on the floor of the House on the east side. The Mace made obeisance and retired to the east side of the Chamber. 1

Thur sday, November 24, 1977 MR. SPEAKER: May it please your Honour, the Legislative Assembly have elected me as their Speaker, though I am but little able t;i fulfill the duties assigned.

If in the performance of htese duties, I should at any time fall into error, I pray that the fault may be impJted to me and not to the Assembly, whose servant I am, and who through me, the better to enable them to discharge their duties to their Queen and Country, hereby claim all their undoubted rights and privileges, especially that they may have freedom of speech in their debates, access to Your Honour's person at all reasonable times, and that their proceedings may receive from Your Honour the most favourable consideration. MR. MERCIER: Mr.

Speaker: I am commanded by His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor to declare to you that he freely confides in the duty and attachment of the Assembly to Her Majesty's person and Government, and not doubting that their proceedings will be conducted with wisdom, temper and prudence, he grants, and upon all occasions will recognize and allow their constitutional rights.

I am commanded also to assure you that the Assembly shall have ready access to His Honour upon all reasonable occasions, and that their proceedings, as well as your words and actions, will constantly receive from him the most favourable Eonstructi<;!l/ The Civil Aide then advanced from the position he had taken on the west side of the Chamber and after the usual obeisance on each step handed the Lieutenant-Governor the Speech from the Throne. The Civil Aide then retired step by step and took up his position on the west side of the Chamber. The members and guests were standing. HONOURABLE FRANCIS L.

JOBIN, Lieutenant-Governor of Manitoba: Please be seated. SPEECH FRO M THE THR ON E HONOURABLE FRANCIS L. JOBIN: Mr. Speaker and Members of the Legislative Assembly of the Province of Manitoba. I welcome you to the First Session of the Thirty-First Legislature of the Province of Manitoba. My ministers have advised me that it is in the public interest to bring provincial and municipal employees within the required guidelines set by the Anti-Inflation Act of Canada. A measure to insure this with effect from October 14, 1975 will be laid before you.

Measures to suspend the Family Maintenance Act 1977 and to defer the coming into force of the Marital Property Act will be offered for your approval. You will be asked to approve a measure to set the overtime rate of wages in Manitoba at a rate of 1.5 times as great as that ordinarily paid for work done. Q�� amendments to the Gift Tax Act and the Succession Duty Act will be recommended for you7al5'1)roval; as well, amendments to the Mineral Acerage Tas Act. You will also be asked to make provision for the costs incident to this session.

Je prie le Seigneur qu'il vous quidera dans vos deliberations et dans vos decisions. The Civil Aide advanced and after the usual obeisance received the Speech from the Lieutenant-Governor and retired to the west side of the Chamber. The Mace made obeisance before the Lieutenant-Governor and preceded His Honour along the east side of the Chamber to the Bar of the House, accompanied by the Premier and his Aides. SINGING OF "GOD SA VE THE QUEEN" The Premier returned to his seat in the Chamber. The Speaker proceeded to the Chair after His Honour had passed the Bar of the House.

The Sergeant-at-Arms proceeded to the Speaker who was standing before the Chair. The Mace made obeisance and returned to the Table. MR. SPEAKER: 0 Eternal and Almighty God from Whom all power and wisdom come; we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our Province; grant 0 Merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy Will; that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the Glory and Honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. Presenting Petitions ...

Reading and Receiving Petitions ... Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees ... Ministerial Statements and Tabling of Reports ... Notices of Motion. INTR ODUCTION OF BILLS 2

Thu rsday, November 24, 1977 MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable First Minister. HON. STERLING LYON, Premier (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable Minister of Finance, that leave be given to introduce a Bill (No. 1 ),

An Act respecting the Administration of Oaths of Office. MOTION presented and carried. ORAL QUESTIONS MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for lnkster. MR. SIDNEY GREEN: Mr. Speaker, it is rather unusual to have an Oral Question Period on the day of the opening, but ist is also peculiar to have it on the Order Paper. It being there, I don't intend to let it be wasted. ...._,. I would like to ask a question of the Leader of the Opposition. Can the Leader of the Opposition assure this House .. . (IN TERJECT ION) Mr. Speaker, that's an indication of my wishful thinking.

I would like to ask the Premier whether he can assure the House that in the negotiations that he is now having relative to the Northern Flood Committee, he will preserve the right of this Assembly to deal with all expenditures of funds in Northern Manitoba other than any arbitration which may find for damages actually suffered to persons or individuals which flow directly from the Churchill River Diversion. MR. LYON: Mr.

Speaker, in response to the question from the Honourable Member for lnkster, I can assure him that in the negotiations which are presently underway to conclude that agreement, the public interest will be looked after to the fullest extent possible and I hope in accord with all of the statements that he has made today. When the agreement is signed finally, and I hope that will take place before too long, he will be in a position to make thatjudgment himself, and I am sure that he will find it satisfactory. MR. GREEN: Well, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate my honourable friend's reply.

I want to ask whether in his opinion the privileges of this House to deal with all expenditures in Northern Manitoba will not be abdicated to an arbitrator or a Court, except insofar as they may refer to direct damages resulting from the Churchill River Diversion? MR. LYON: Mr. Speak er, my honourable friend as an experienced and able member of this House is well aware that he is asking a question which involves a legal opinion which we are not prepared to give at this time. MR. GREEN: Mr. Speaker, with due respect if I was asking for a legal opinion I wouldn't ask it of the Premier.

May I then repeat the ,..in iniQU of the Premier of this Province, will those legislative prerogatives be preserved or will there be an opening for arbitration on matters other than affecting damages which the House will not have authority to deal with and which the House will not be able to supervise expenditures over? MR. LYON: I can only repeat, Mr. Speaker, that the public interest with respect to the negotiations that are going on, public interest will be fully protected in all respects. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. SCHREYER: Mr.

Speaker, given that we are going to proceed perhaps more routinely on opening day than was anticipated, may I ask the First Minister that in the event that the agreement might be signed while this House is still in this particular session, would it be his intention to make a statement on motions on that oay. Appreciating the fact that it is not finalized as yet, he cannot give us an assurance as to what it may contain since it is not final, but would you give an assurance that if finalized that you will make a statement on motions? MR. LYON: Mr.

Speaker, realizing of course as my honourable friend does, that the question is hypothetical, I can only assure him that the House will be advised, if the House is sitting, at the first convenient moment as to any completion of negotiations and execution of the agreement. MR. SPEAKER: The Member for Elmwood. MR.DOERN: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Premier. Three former deputy ministers were fired by his government. I wonder if he could indicate whether a settlement has been 3

Thu rsday, November 24, 1977 made with these individuals at this tim e. MR. LYON: Mr. Speaker, that's a matter that is being dealt with routinely by the Civil Service Commission. I don't have details on it at the moment. MR. DOERN: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker, could the Premier i11dicate how many people have been terminated by his government since October 12th? MR. LYON: No, I can't answer that question, Mr. Speaker. That would be more properly an Order for Return, I would imagine. ORDERS OF THE DAY MR.

SPEAKER: In order to prevent mistakes, I have obtained a copy of the speech of His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor. I wish to inform the House that Ragnar Gislason has been appointed Sergeant-at-Arms for the First Session of the Thirty-First Legislature. On the proposed motion of the First Minister. MR. LYON: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs, that the Votes and Proceedings of this House be printed, having first been perused by Mr.

Speaker, and that he do appoint the printing thereof, and that no person but such as he shall appoint do presume to print the same. MOTION presented and carried. MR. SPEAKER: On the proposec:J motion of the First Minister. MR. LYON: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable the Minister of Health and Social Development, that during ... by leave .. ' MR. SCHREYER: I suppose it is at this juncture that I could perhaps clarify certain procedural matters here ... well in both respects, Mr. Speaker.

I have indicated to the First Minister, and take the opportunity now to indicate for the record and to eliminate ambiguity, that there are certain procedures that will be requested here which we are prepared to give the required leave for. There are other matters here, Mr. Speaker, which would presume to in effect introduce the so-called "speed up" motion, and in that regard I have indicated that while we are prepared to be, we believe, quite accommodating, that we do not wish to deviate from the rules as laid down in our Rules and Procedures, and accordingly we would not be prepared to grant leave today.

And, more specifically then, the introduction of bills today requires leave since normally, under normal rules, it would require notice, but there is in every common sense reason to grant leave and to agree to the introduction and tabling of bills today that flow from the Order Paper without the required leave. Also, no reason whatsoev.er not to grant leave for the cancelling of the requirement for tabling of reports. It is not our intention to introduce resolutions at this session, but in other respects We would wish that the rules, normal rules be adhered to, and that should not cause any undue delay. MR.

LYON: Mr. Speaker, speaking to what I presume was the Point of Order raised by the Honourable Leader of the Opposition and again for the sake of the record, it was my understanding from discussions that were held that leave would not be granted with respect to the second motion which is traditionally called the Speed-up motion, but I had no indication there was any objection to what is the normal suspensio n of rules for quick sessions of this sort.

And if my honourable friend is now indicating that he would not grant leave to this motion, then of course all members of the House take this motion as notice that will be presented in the usual course in accordance with the rules, but it will be presented. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. SCHREYER: That, Mr. Speaker, is the understanding which I had and I believe the net effect of it is to cause that this subject matter would be taken up in accordance with the rules two days hence. MR. SPEAKER: Well then, the subject matter of this motion will be dealt with in the regular manner.

Is that the understanding of the House? On the proposed motion of the Honourable First Minister MR. LYON: ·Mr. Speaker, with respect to this motion, this is the motion of which I did have notice that my honourable friend was not prepared to grant leave and for that reason I will not move the motion, the traditional Speed-up motion at this time, but notice is given of the intention of the government to bring the motion forward and it will equally be voted upon. MR. SPEAKER: Then we'll move on to the next proposed motion by the Honourable First fvii,iister. 4

Thu rsday, November 24, 1977 The Standing Committees. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE MR.

LYON: By leave, I move seconded by the Honourable the Minister without Portfolio, that the Standing Committees of this House for the 31st Legislature be appointed for the following purposes: Privileges and Elections, Public Accounts, Public Utilities and Natural Resources, Agriculture, Municipal Affairs, Law Amendments, Private Bills, Industrial Relations, Statutory Regulations and Orders, Economic Development, Rules of the House; which several committees shall be empowered to examine and inquire into all such matters and things as may be referred to them and report from time to time their observations and opinions thereon, with power to send for persons, papers and documents and examine witnesses under Oath. · MR.

PETER FOX (Kildonan): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if the Honourable First Minister would indicate which Minister without Portfolio he's designating as seconder. MR. LYON: The Honourable, the Member for River Heights. MOTION presented and carried. MR. SPEAKER: The First Minister. MR. LYON: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move seconded by the Honourable, the Minister without Portfolio, the House Leader, that J. Wally McKenzie, Esquire, member of the electoral division of Roblin, be Chairman of the Committees of the House and Deputy Speaker. MOTION presented and carried. MR.

SPEAKER: On the proposed motion of the Honourable First Minister. MR. LYON: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable, the Minister of Highways, Minister of Public Works, that a Special Committee of seven persons be appointed to prepare and report with all convenient speed a list of members to compose the Standing Committees ordered by this House and that such coittee shall be composed as follows: Honourable Messrs. Jorgenson, McGill, Messrs. Blake, Ferguson, Fox, Green and Hanuschak. MOTION presented and carried. INTR ODUCTION OF BILLS HONOURABLE GERALD W.J.

MERCIER, Attorney-General (Osborne) introduced Bill No. 5,

an Act to suspend the Family Maintenance Act and to defer the coming into force of the Marital Property Act and to amend certain other Acts and make provisions required as a consequence thereof. HONOURABLE STERLING LYON, Premier, introduced Bill No. 2,

an Act to ratify an Agreement between the Government of Canada and the Government of the Province of Manitoba, under the Anti-Inflation Act (Canada). HONOURABLE NORMA L. PRICE, Minister of Labour (Assiniboia) introduced Bill No. 6,

an Act to amend the Employment Standards Act (O vertime Rate of Wages). HONOURABLE DONALD CRAIK, Minister of Finance(Riel) introduced Bill No. 3,

an Act to amend The Gift Tax Act (Manitoba) and The Succession Duty Act (Manitoba); and Bill No. 4,

an Act to amend the Mineral Acreage Tax Act. MR. SPEAKER: On the proposed motion of the Honourable First Minister. MR. LYON: I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable Minister of Agriculture, that the speech of His Honour The Lieutenant Governor be taken into consideration immediately. MOTION presented and carried. 5

Thu rsday, November 24, 1977 MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable MR. DON ORCHARD (Pembina)8: Member for Pembina. Thank you Mr. Speaker. Fellow members of this Thirty-first Legislature, the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. Congratulations to you Mr. Speaker on your appointment, many successes. I would like to thank the Honourabie First Minister and the Executive Council for availing me of - this opportunity to make this address in reply to the Speech from the Throne.

A second thank you I believe is in order at this time to the Honourable First Minister for his capable unrelenting and unwavering leadership in the past several months and especially that leadership in the recent election campaign which was so instrumental in moving us from the Opposition side of the House to this, the government side of the House.

As a new member I look forward to the Thirty-first Legislature in anticipation of a new learning experience, aided to a great extent I have no doubt by the honourable members opposite, who I know will be as effective in their role as Opposition, as they were in their role as government. As a new member for Pembina constituency I would like to equate the honourable members of this assembly with some of my .constituency's unique and advantageous characteristics. Pembina constituency is some 33 townships in size, is bounded on the south by the 49th parallel and our American neighbours.

It extends 36 miles to the north and is 48 miles wide at its widest extent. It contains some 16 towns, villages, and hamlets with 3 of them formil"tg the major population, namely Morden, Carmen and Manitou. Population of Pembina constituency-is 14,000 plus and is roughly split 60/40 urban and rural. Our population in Pembina constituency is composed by 90 percent of roughly three ethnic descents. British descendants amounting to 50 percent of our population, German descendants some 28 percent and Dutch descendants 12 percent My constituents are industrious people who very much value a day's pay for a day's work.

Personal endeavour and achievement are highly regarded. The drive and initiative of the residents of Pembina constituency, I believe, are amply exemplified by the tact that in Pembina constituency we have one of the lowest, if not the lowest, unemployment rate in the province of Manitoba and in fact the Dominion of Canada. That speaks well for their initiative and drive.

It is indeed a pleasure and an honour to represent such constituents in this legislature, it presents to me a chalan challenge and a very great challenge to attempt to achieve the same degree of success in this Assembly as my constituets have at home in their own endeavours, it is a great challenge to me. Pembina constituency is primarily an agricultural constituency and a very good one. My constituency is roughly divided in half by the Pembina escarpment, a physical feature of our topography out there which was at one time the lake shore of ancient glacial Lake Agassiz.

It divides my constituency roughly in half and runs in a diagonal from northwest to southeast. The eastern half of my constituency is the lake bottom of ancient glacial Lake Agassiz and forms the special crops heartland of the Pembina Triangle. The Pembina Triangle in all estimation is the primest piece of agricultural real estate between the Niagara Peninsula and the Okanagan Valley and has all of the ·potential of either area.

The west half of my constituency above the Pembina escarpment contains some of the finest grain land in the province, thus you can see, as I say, I have the best of two worlds in my constituency, the best special crops land in the province and the best grain land in the province. Ingenuity and innovation are two very accurate descriptions of the members of our farming community in Pembina constituency. When the farm economy in the late Sixties nose-dived our farm population took a look at their returns and immediatly decided that diversification was the answer.

In diversification they looked first at special crops. Corn, potatoes, sugar beets are all part of the regular cropping program in the Pembina Triangle and my constituency now, and came in as a direct result of the economic pressures in the early Sixties. In addition to the diversification into special crops my constituency diversified into livestock enterprises , and as a legacy today we have the largest cattle feed lot in Manitoba and many thriving hog and poultry operations much to the credit of our producers.

The old adage that when the going gets tough the tough get going definitely applies to the farm population in my constituency and I say the farm population because I mean that in no small regard have the wives and children of those farm families made a contribution to the health of our agricultural economy out there. 8 As a tribute to the capabilities of our farmers in the Pembina constituency we have had four of our farm members awarded the honour of Mr. Manitoba Farmer in the very recent few years. This year we have the honour of Mr. Manitoba Farmer for 1977 in the person of Mr. Harry McKnight of Roland.

Once again four Mr. Manitoba Farmers from my constituency. That speaks well for the quality of the farm operation. Being primarily agricultural the constituency has nurtured a variety of farm service businesses. These farm service businesses have attributed to the growth and stability of our towns, they have accounted for a major amount of employment and given LIS the community strength in the independent businessmen. We have major feed mills in 3 centres. We have numerous seed cleaning plants and one major seed cleaning and processing plant presently under construction at Graysville.

We have numerous fertilizer and chemical supply outlets offering a variety of goods and services, all at competitive prices. We are also blessed with an outlet of every major and minor line of farm machinery in Canada and supply depots that can supply farmers with the inputs needed by modern agriculture today, we are indeed fortunate in Pembina constituency. Although agriculture is our major endeavour in Pembina constituency one must never forget the inventiveness, the industriousness of our independent business community. These enterprising businessmen manufacture numerous products in the constituency.

These products range from lighting, shop equipment, telephone 6

Thursday, November 24, 1977 components, truck boxes, farm equipment, recreation vehicles, cabinets, boats, clothing and the list goes on. The employment contribution in our constituency from these industries is very significant. These businesses have, in the majority, been started by local entrepreneurs who had an idea, good a product orservice to sell and in their personal drives they developed these ideas, these goods into a thriving local business.

No small amount of recognition credit, I believe, is due to these people who are the small businessmen of our province and who still provide the majority of employment in our province. They are a tremendous credit and example of the workings of the free enterprise system. It is with these business people in mind that this ssembly should plan for the future because our future deA/ pends on them. In Pembina constituency we also have mining operations.

We have sand, gravel and shale mining operations for road construction and maintenance and· we also have two mining operations unearthing bentonite clay and firebrick-making clay. Peter Kent, CBC reporter, in his recent election coverage referred to the fact that he fully suspected the first Conservative to come out of Pembina constituency was a dinosaur. Well Mr. Kent we do in fact have dinosaurs in Pembina constituency albeit in a slightly fossilized form.

We unearth them in the Pembina escarpment in the operation of bringing up bentonite clay and over the past several years these fossils have been collected and are about to be displayed in a soon to open museum at Morden . I would invite the honourable members opposite, at their nearest opportunity, to study a museum of fossils. We in Pembina constituency are blessed with a variety of recreational.facilities. We have two man made lakes, one at Carman and one at Morden, to provide us with swimming, boating, fishing in the summer and ice fishing in the winter time.

We Have the finest ski resort in Manitoba located at La Riviere and as well at La Riviere a very.very good summer resort and year round resort in the Pembina valley. We have three golf courses with grass greens, very challenging, very excellent and an excellent golf course at Roland with sand greens. Just for plain enjoyment never pass up the Pembina escarpment itself and the Pembina valley. You will find scenery there in the spring and in the fall that is unsurpassed and hard to beat anywhere else in the province. Now our summer festivals that we have in Pembina constituency are very unique.

At Carman, for instance, we have a three-day fair and a tractor pull. Morden has the two-day Corn and Apple Festival. At this point in time I feel I must put in a plug for my home town of Miami. In our fair, which is a two-day effort on July 1st, we have what is known as the Mule Derby; in fact we have the National Mule Derby at Miami. In fact, Miami has become the mule capital of Canada.

Now, I have personally trained, I have personally trained a mule for the mule derby, and I consider that training experience to be an excellent prerequisite for anyone aspiring to be an MLA and wrestling with some of the problems in our legislature. I would recommend without hesitation that each and every one of the members of this House visit some of our festivals in the summer. It'll be one of your best dollar values in entertainment that you've ever spent. Our constituency is a growing constituency; all our communities have experienced rapid development in the past few years.

This I believe speaks very very well for the constituency, for the area, for its potential, for its promise of the future, and speaks very very well for the type of constituents we have in Pembina, hard working, industrious and friendly, and they have been a major instigator in the growth that we are experiencing in Pembina constituency today. Gentlemen, honourable members, with all these obvious advantages in Pembina constituency, one must at this point be wondering if we do have any problems in Pembina constituency.

Well, we do have our share of problems; they involve neede d road repairs and construction, new hospital facilities, extended health care facilities. I have constituents, concerned constituents, posing questions to me of the school system, the taxation system and problems of the small businessme n. These are all problems not unique, everyone in this house has constituents with those kind of problems, and we, in due course , and this Assembly, will deal with them. I also have some personal concerns which I would like to bring before this Assembly at some point in time for its consideration.

These personal concerns are in four main categories: Namely young farmers, water, crops, and jobs. All are quite different but all are uniquely interdependent. I will deal briefly at this time with each of them. We have presently an excellent and viable agriculture, very viable agriculture in Pembina constituency, but we must not rest on our laurels. Agriculture is an ever-changing industry. Well apace of the time, well apace of the changing times. We must therefore assure that Agriculture receives an injection of new blood. Young farm families must be able to enter with ease into the farming economy.

As a government we must assist these families in their goal. We can do this in two major ways: Firstly, MACC must be reinstated as a lender of long-term mortgage money for young farmers; the goal of land ownership, private land ownership should never be thwarted but rather encouraged by this Assembly. A policy change in that direction is much needed. Secondly the young established farmer must be made fully competitive, fully competitive with the absentee foreign land investor in his purchasing of land and this can be achieved through well constructed legislation.

If we keep our agriculture healthy, it follows hand in hand that the rest of our rural economies and communities will also be healthy. Agriculture is the leader in rural communities. Now ample water we all knowl, is essential. very essential to the development of any area, and to its continued growth, and very often a lack of ample supply of water can be the limiting factor to a community's growth and epansion. In the town of Morden in my constituencyx that limitation of lack of water may thwart their growth in the near future. This applies also to communities to the east of 7

Thu rsday, November 24, 1977 Morden, in my honourable colleague Mr. Arnold Brown's constituency of Rhineland. A solution to the water supply for Pembina constituency in Rhineland is at hand, and it is at hand in the Pembilier Dam project, which we would very much like to consider in this Assembly. If if we follow through with the Pembina dam project, its benefits are obvious, very obvious: provides water, provides flood control, water supplies for municipal and industrial, recreation, boating, fishing. The benefits are there. The third area is crops.

In Pembina constituency, we are blessed with having the federal agricultural research station at Morden. This research station has been instrumental in developing crops specific to the special crop capabilities of the Pembina triangle. They have given us, in the past, through their research, a major thrust in the development of corn, sugar beets potatoes. I would like to see this Assembly consider the possibility of an ongoing program of joint crop research funding with the research station in Morden to develop crops specific to the Pembina triangle.

These crops, and I will name two, which are on the verge of being perfected, namely Jerusalem artichoke and soybeans. These two crops can provide a tremendous impetus to our agricultural economy and moneys spent, I maintain, moneys spent in crop research funding find themselves back in the public coffers quicker than any other area of expenditure. -(Interjection)- Yes. Very much so. Now, Pembina triangle, with renewed crop research funding can in fact become the garden land of the prairies.

We have the unique combination of climate, soil conditions, and moisture conditions which, given the proper crops, will thrive. It's doing well right now. Jobs are the final area of concern. My constituency's heavy dependence on agriculture leads me to believe that we should embark immediately upon programs to stimulate the secondary industries in the process of agricultural crops. Resulting benefit from new processing industries is self-evident in the new employment, the new investment and the increased tax base that they will provide.

It is also self-evident that their benefit to our local farm community in providing them with a close at hand and local market will stimulate our agricultural economy as well. Hence one can see how all four major areas although different are very much interdependent and intertwined. Water supply is necessary to meet the needs of our growing communities, very necessary to the location and developing of process industries and in no small measure necessary to provide the water which through irrigation can grow some of the new crops that additional crop research funding can and will develop for Pembina constituency.

No less important, is the necessity for sound policy, sound agricultural policy, that wi 11 assure that our young farmers can establish themselves in the farm business through ownership of land and provide the impetus for the future that our agriculture needs. Hence the four concerns form a major development thrust for Pembina constituency that can provide, not short term but long term job opportunities, long term business opportunities, and a very excellent and thriving agricultural business in the future.

Therefore if we in Pembina constituency, and in fact we of the province of Manitoba, are to see our communities grow, our businesses expand and prosper, and our farming economy thrive, we must immediately look into the 1980s. We must plan objectively and provide a clear direction to the citizens of Manitoba. We must respond decisively to the needs of the futurewith policies that offer assistance and guidance to the people of Manitoba, not ultimatums. Our assembly must be in tune with the aspiration of our fellow Manitobans, and responsive to their needs over the next decades.

It is with this objective in full view that I respectfully take my seat in this Thirty-first Legislature with the hope that we as members can provide the quality of government so necessary for this province and so necessary to create the economic climate wherein individual initiative and effort are rewarded to the fullest of their contribution to this province. Mr. Speaker.I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable Member from St.

Matthews, that a humble address be presented to His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor as follows: We Her Majesty's dutiful and loyal subjects, The Legislative Assembly of Manitoba in session assembled, humbly thank Your Honour for the gracious speech which Your Honour has been pleased to address us at the opening of this present session. MOTION presented and carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for St. Matthews. MR. LEN DOMINO: Mr. Speaker, I consider it a great honour to myself and for my constituency St. Matthews to have been asked to second the Address in reply to the Throne Speech this afternoon.

I thank the Premier and his colleagues for giving me this opportunity. May I also express my pleasure at your elevation to the position of Speaker. I am sure that you will guide our discussions in a fair and unbiased manner. Mr. a newwwmembes ssembly I would like to take this Speaker, as opportunity to speak of my predecessor. The former member for St. Matthews and I are not close friends and we certainly do not share a common political philosophy. However, Mr. Johannsen did represent St.

Matthews constituency for eight years and during that time he worked very hard on behalf of his constituents and laboured to the best of his abilities on behalf of all the people of Manitoba. I am sure that in this Assembly he always tried to do what he felt in his own conscious was best for the people of Manitoba and although we do not share a common political philosophy I think that I certainly can share that objective with him. 8

Thu rsday, November 24, 1977 Mr. Speaker, St. Matthews constituency is located in the west end of the original city of Winnipeg. We are one of Winnipeg's older neighborhoods . Many of our homes and apartment blocks were built before the first world war and certainly our entire community and neighborhood was built up prior to the second world war. We are proud that for many years we have provided a clean, attractive and wholesome neighborhood for our citizens to live and to raise families. St. Matthews has and will continue to be a productive and essential part of the city of Winnipeg and the province of Manitoba.

Statistics Canada census material tells us a little bit about St. Matthews. They mention facts such as that on average, compared to other Manitobans, we make less money and we are older, but statistical . data really doesn't tell you all that much about a people or a neighborhood. One of the beneficial side effects of having campaign, or and having been a candidate and having been able to meet with the people of St. Matthews, is that over the past year and a half after I finished work I used to go out every night, talk to people, knock on doors, and I think that I have acquired a sense of what the people of St.

Matthews believe in . I think the people of St. Matthews demonstrated that they are hard workers and that they believe in thrift and the careful husbanding of resources, both their personal resources, which in many cases are limited, and the resources of the community as a whole. Long experience has taught them as other Manitoban's the value of a dollar and a dislike for waste. The people of St. Matthews have a strong sense of community, they are not unlike most other Manitobans in many ways. I am sure the people of St.

Matthews would approve, if they were here this afternoon, it might be a little crowded but if they were here they would approve of the Throne Speech for they are realistic people who believe in speaking frankly. They know there is no free way, they know there is no such thing as a tree ride from the government. Eventually they understand that all taxpayers must pay the bill for all services and all the activities of the government. The people of St. Matthews realize that we in Manitoba cannot afford to pay more for overtime and still keep jobs and still attract new industry. The people of s St. Math St.

Matthews that we cannot afford to have our provincial and our municipal civil servants outside the Anti- Inflation Board. They understand that the bill for back salaries alone would be in excess of $50 million. They realize that we cannot as a province afford to have higher levels of taxation than other provinces or other jurisdictions because we will be hampered in our attempts to attract new investment and to create new jobs. The people of St. Matthews want sensible and restrained government, and I think they would agree that this Throne Speech, limited as it is, is a first step towards that. Mr.

Speaker, the people of St. Matthews don't want to wipe away all that has happened in the last eight years. I don't, and I am sure the people of St. Matthews wouldn't mind admitting that the former government has accomplished many good things. You must give credit where credit is due, of course the former government did many good things. Take Medicare without premiums, and Pharmacare, those are both good programs. The Minister of Health is already indicated that he is examining a potential expansion of the Pharmacare program.

And the program of grants to fix up senior citizens' homes, that's another good program, no complaints. The Elderly Persons Housing, that was a program that was started under the last Progressive Conservative Government. The last government continued that program and expanded it and the new government is on record as planning on taking the program even further. When you consider the accomplishments of the former government we must remember that large amounts of money were expended on activities and programs for which the benefits to the people of Manitoba are at best doubtful.

I don't think it is necessary to go into that in detail. We spent over a month on that and I think the people of Manitoba have spoken. Now the people of St. Matthews, and I think of Manitoba, realize that the question that faces all of us now is not dismantling the good programs that were provided by the former government, te problem we are faced with is the matter of rooting out any waste and any excessive expenditures that we can find. Certainly we are faced with a large deficit now in Manitoba.

Certainly a large part of that deficit we face is not due at all to the actions of the former government, the performance of the economy of Canada as a whole has been poor. There are reduced transfer payments from the federal government. I think we all accept those things. I am even willing to accept that the former Minister of Finance wasn't fully aware of the deficit. I am willing to accept that he wasn't even aware of the deficit prior to October llth.

But if we are to give credit where credit is due the previous government must accept at least some responsibility for the financial state of the province of Manitoba right now. But no matter who is to blame I think we are all aware now, if we weren't aware before October llth, /' we are now aware of the financial situation the province is in, it's not good. We are all aware that this must be a time of restraint and a time of cutting back and a time of saving wherever we can, and I would like to say just a little bite about who is going to make the sacrifices, and who we are going to ask to make those sacrifices.

I would like to have seen in this Throne Speech many more things. However, unfortunately the economy was turned over to this government in such a state that the government is not able to move on these matters immediately. I would like to have seen some more help for our Senior Citizens. Senior citizens should not have to worry about their homes. They should not be threatened with being forced out of their homes because of taxation or because of lack of funds. We have to bring forward legislation that would remove the last of the education tax from the homes of middle and lower income senior citizens.

I think if a person has paid and it hasn't already been done ... I have talked to the people in St. Matthews and other constituencies and they'll tell you they are still paying some of that education tax, and if you've paid that tax until you're sixty-five you've paid it long enough. That's it. The government must provide help, we must work at it. We must provide help so senior citizens can remain independent as long as possible. We need to provide for 9

Thursday, November 24, 1977 our senior citizens the ability to remain in their homes with their families, to remain in familiar circumstances when they retire. That's very important.

I see no justice at all when a man has worked all his life, where a woman has worked all her life to build a community, to work in a neighborhood and build a neighborhood and make it strong and healthy and then to find out when they grow old and they have to retire and for health reasons or whatever other reasons they are forced to leave their homes, that they have to move to another community if they happened to live in a rural area, so they can find good housing for their retirement years, or if they live in St. Matthews there were no new developments for senior citizens, h using in St.

Matthews in the eight years of the previous former government. If they I ive in St. Matthews and they want to leave their homes and they have to for health reasons, they have to move down town or to some other neighborhood that they are not familiar with; they can't stay in that community which they helped to build. I think that's wrong. I think that the government certainly should make sure that we don't ask our senior citizens where we're asking people to sacrifice, that we don't ask the senior citizens to be the first to give up things. They should be the last people we ask.

There were no new developments of senior citizens' housing in St. Matthews in the eight years of the previous former government. If they live in St. Matthews and they want to leave their homes, they have to for health reasons, they have to move downtown or to some other neighbourhood they're not familiar with. They can't stay in that community which they helped to build. I think that's wrong , I think that the government certainly should make sure that in asking people to sacrifice, that we don't ask the senior citizens to be the first to give up things. They should be the last people we ask to sacrifice.

We certainly can place no blame on a new government forthe poor finances and the huge deficit. I don't know Who's to blame , I don't think at this point that I Want to place any blame anywhere. But I do know that we don't have any new programs for senior citizens to be discussed this afternoon and that we do have a new and large parking garage and other facilities. I would ask the Premier and his colleagues only that our senior citizens not be asked to bear the brunt of necessary sacrifices. There are other people in our society who are much better prepared.

The people who are senior citizens today would appreciate your concern. I've always found most senior citizens to be courteous and to be careful to listen to what other people are saying so that when they respond they can do it intelligently. People who are senior citizens in our province today are the people that built this province, and above all others they have a right to secure and dignified and independent lives now in their retirement years. Mr. Speaker, the people of St. Matthews, I think I've discovered from my close personal contact with large numbers of them, are of an independent nature.

They prefer to handle their own problems, Whether they be individual problems or community problems -w ithout government interference if it's possible because they realize that when a government delivers a service there is always a service charge that is often costly, and that in the long run it is often not good for individual freedom or for the dignity of the individual if there is too much government interference in their lives. However, the people of St.

Matthews are also aware that we live in the twentieth century and that we live in a highly complex and interrelated society and that there are problems we face which can only be solved by direct government action. A problem of this type is the question of the deterioration of many of Manitoba's and Winnipeg's finest and older neighbourhoods-neighbourhoods just like St. Matthews. Many of our older urban neighbourhoods, in the words most commonly used by the residents, are going "downhill". What's happening? Well, the symptoms are obvious. There's a declining proportion of owner-occupied homes.

You find more and more homes owned by speculators or investors. You find declining standards of maintenance in apartment buildings and in the rental accommodation. You find changes in the age mix of the neighbourhoods. You find that in the older neighbourhoods you get less and less young families, the sort of young families which are essential to maintain the schools, the community clubs and all the other social infrastructure. I think these trends can be reversed, we have to begin now. We can't wait until we get to a crisis situation with areas like St.

Matthews, because then it would cost not only the people of St. Matthews a great deal, but all the taxpayers of Manitoba. Huge fortunes would have to be spent on urban renewal; where if a little bit of time and effort and a small amount of funding was used now we could prevent this. What's needed is government action. What's needed are programs and loans to allow young people, first-time home owners, to buy houses and renovate them.

What's needed is a little bit of extra money and financing for the city government so they can put some force into their inspection services and enforce the health by-laws and the building standards. These are important things. The by-laws are there but the city can't at present enforce them properly.

What we need is a bit of legal help from the province for the city, so that when they do find a violation, when they find somebody who owns a home, doesn't live there, and is not maintaining it and that home is hurting the rest of the neighbourhood, so that we can go in and take them to court right away and make sure that we get those repairs done. Those are the kind of things the people of St. Matthews want. We need some programs to help out apartment block owners, the villains.

Many of the people that own older apartment blocks in our neighbourhood need assistance-low interest loans, tied to some form of rent control, so they can repair the apartment blocks and we can keep the older rental accommodation on the market and keep it fit for human habitation. - (Interjection) - The very intel I igent member from across the floor has noticed that these aren't novel ideas. They were detailed by the the now Premier and members of my party during the election campaign. St. Matthews needs these programs and one of the reasons that I stand here today is because the people of St.

Matthews understand their problem and they want some action. Financial restraints will make it difficult and, as 10

Thu rsday, November 24, 1977 I' ve said, those restraints are not going to be put in place because of any action from the people on this side of the House. We had nothing to do with the deficit, but the peop le of St. Matthews voted for these kind of programs and the people of St. Matthews expect these programs now. Mr.

Sp eaker, I will do everythi ng in my power to help the government and to help the members of the Cabinet find ways to implement these programs to help the older neighbourhoods in our city, because in the long run it will save money for all Manitobans and it will preserve fine residential areas like St. Matthews. Mr. Speaker, the people of St. Matthews will be watching us all very carefully. They won't be just watching the new government. They' ll be watching all members in the Legislature. We're all on trial. We're all facing a very difficu lt prob lem.

There's less money and there are still the same crying needs for the money. Our task is to find a way of improving gover nment services without increasing government costs. In the past, when governments were faced with a tough problem - this is all government s at all levels - the response almost uni versally has been to pick up a wad of the taxpayers' money and throw it at the probl em. That's no long er an acceptable solution, because we cannot continue to in crease the tax load on society forever. The tax burden is already high eno ugh.

We've got to find, all of us in this Legislature, ways to improve gover nment services, to develop new programs, we've got to find inno vative, inexpensive new ideas. Mr. Speaker, I hope that members from both sides of this House will be able to con tribute. We need everybody's experience and everybody's knowledge. I would nope that no one would be shut out and that when criticism comes, it will be con structive criticism.

As a new member, I' m very con scious, and I think all the other new members are probably cons cious too, that the peop le of Manitoba are looking to this Legislature to find solutions for their problems, and I sincerely hope that we do not lose sight of the direct in terest of our con stituents in our partisan concerns, because when that happens the whole Legislature will lose respect and we will find it harder to imp lement the tough and hard programs of restraint which we have to bring forward.

We must all remember that it's not only the government that will be evaluated, but the opposition and every ind ividual rnember in here will also be evaluated by the citizens. Mr. Speaker, I think that this Session ho lds out a lot of promise. I' m pleased with the Throne Speech and I wish again to express my thanks to the First Minist er , to the Cabir,et , for �1iving me this opportunity and this honour to speak. It gives me great pleasure to second the resolution and the rep ly to the Speech from the Throne which was so ably put by the Member for Pembina. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Oppositio n.

MR. SCHREYER: Mr. Speaker, in order to have the necessary time in which to prepare what will hopefu lly be con structive criticism with respect to the measures before us, I would like to move, Sir, seconded by the Honourable the Member for ln kster, that until tomorrow morning that debate be adjourned. MOTION presented and carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable First Min ister. MR. LYON: I wonder if I might have leave to discuss the matter . �f the order of procedure �f business for tomorrow.

I would inq uire from the Leader of the Oppos 1t1on whether he would see fit, he and his group would see fit to permit the second readings of the bi lls that are now distributed to us to proceed tomorrow in order to enable the Mini sters to give their explanations. I would then expect that the adjour nments would be tak�n o� each of the bi lls in order to tac. ilitate the proced �rE'.s of the House. Otherwise, we could be possibly in here for an hour or. two! "."'asting everyone else . s t11:ne �nd wasting the time of the taxpayers of Manitoba.

I would appreciate 1t 1f we could have some 1nd 1cat1on from the Leader of the Opposition as to his feeling s in this regard. MR. SCHREYER: Well, Mr. Speaker, certainly we would not see any point in the Legislature coming to a place in the Order Paper in which there is no ��siness to deal. with and cons equently adjourn early in the day.

That, we agree, would not be exped1t1ous, but certainly for the course of. the next one, two sitting days, we expect to proceed norm ally und er the rules and we expect that motion, since notice is now given, that the not ice with respect to speed-.up w!ll be take� up early next week-:-1 would think Mond ay - at which time all that my honourable friend 1s suggesti ng would be dealt with in that fashion, but until then we are hoping that we can agree mutually here to proceed a� norm ally as possible und er the rules, and I would suggest that the two House Leaders get together in order to deal in specific detail with the sequential handling of the business of this House.

To put it more simply, we anticipate that tomorrow we will deal with the Throne Speech. In the event that the�e. are no further speakers, then in stead of adjourning , we would proceed even though the full sufficient required notice time not yet having elapsed, but we waive that to that extent and so on. MR. LYON: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate my honourable frie nd's accommodation and we'll then proceed on the und erstanding that second readinQS, presuming . that we fini sh the. Throne Spe �ch or the Throne Speech is adjourned tomorrow, we will then more in to second readi ngs of the bill s by 11

Thursday, November 24, 1977 leave of the House and get on with as much business as we possibly can. I appre ciate that accommodation. MR. SCHREYER: That is precisely the understanding that we would hope we have. MR. SPEAKER: Well, having reached the end of the Order Paper, perhaps the government House Leader could give us some indication of what matters he wishes to bring forward at this time. HON. WARNER JORGENSON: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member for Brandon West, that the House do now adjourn. MOTION presented and carried and the House adjourned until 10:00 a.m. tomorrow morni ng . (Frida y) ' · 12

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	31-1-1
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	31st 1st hansardpdf 1.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	cc82b91537207dcb0fe6bfa35a74d1f546de1ec0

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