Manitoba Hansard — 29 October 2024 (Sitting 79B, 43rd Legislature, 1st Session)

43-1-79b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session – Forty-Third Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Tom Lindsey Speaker Vol. LXXVIII No. 79B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, October 29, 2024 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Third Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello, Hon. Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma, Hon. Union Station NDP BALCAEN, Wayne Brandon West PC BEREZA, Jeff Portage la Prairie PC BLASHKO, Tyler Lagimodière NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian, Hon. Keewatinook NDP BYRAM, Jodie Agassiz PC CABLE, Renée, Hon. Southdale NDP CHEN, Jennifer Fort Richmond NDP COMPTON, Carla Tuxedo NDP COOK, Kathleen Roblin PC CROSS, Billie Seine River NDP DELA CRUZ, Jelynn Radisson NDP DEVGAN, JD McPhillips NDP EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni, Hon. St.

Johns NDP GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC HIEBERT, Carrie Morden-Winkler PC JACKSON, Grant Spruce Woods PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake-Gimli PC KENNEDY, Nellie Assiniboia NDP KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP KING, Trevor Lakeside PC KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Dauphin NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom, Hon. Flin Flon NDP LOISELLE, Robert St. Boniface NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya, Hon. Notre Dame NDP MOROZ, Mike River Heights NDP MOSES, Jamie, Hon. St.

Vital NDP MOYES, Mike Riel NDP NARTH, Konrad La Vérendrye PC NAYLOR, Lisa, Hon. Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC OXENHAM, Logan Kirkfield Park NDP PANKRATZ, David Waverley NDP PERCHOTTE, Richard Selkirk PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP SALA, Adrien, Hon. St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHMIDT, Tracy, Hon. Rossmere NDP SCHOTT, Rachelle Kildonan-River East NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SIMARD, Glen, Hon. Brandon East NDP SMITH, Bernadette, Hon. Point Douglas NDP STONE, Lauren Midland PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry Ind.

WHARTON, Jeff Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt, Hon. Concordia NDP WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC

3117 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, October 29, 2024 The House met at 1:30 p.m. The Speaker: Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS The Speaker: Introduction of bills? Oh. Mrs. Kathleen Cook (Acting Official Opposition House Leader): On House business. House Business The Speaker: The hon ourable member for Roblin (Mrs. Cook), on House business. Mrs. Cook: Honourable Speaker, I seek leave to allow the Op position House Leader to call Bill 221, The Earlier Screening for Breast Cancer Act, to a committee of this House before the end of the First Session of the 43rd Legislature.

The Speaker: Is there leave to allow the Op position House Leader to call Bill 221, The Earlier Screening for Breast Cancer Act, to a committee of this House before the end of the First Session of the 43rd Legislature? Is there leave? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Some Honourable Members: No. The Speaker: Leave has been denied. * * * The Speaker: Routine proceedings. Introduction of bills? Committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS The Speaker: And I have a report to table in accord- ance with

section 29(3) and 30(6) of The Advocate for Children and Youth Act. I am tabling the annual report and service plan of the Manitoba Advocate for Children and Youth for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2024. Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Government House Leader): Honourable Speaker, I am tabling this sequence for departmental Estimates for today. Miigwech. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Recognizing Health-Care Support Workers Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): Today, I'm so happy that we're joined by health-care support workers. They're here in the gallery with us.

You do in credible work every single day for patients across Manitoba. Now, we wanted to recognize health-care support workers' day today in the House because last week, we were not sitting during Health Care Support Workers' Week. We are so grateful for the commitment of health- care support workers to our province, to our com mu- nities and to our loved ones. These folks care for our loved ones when we cannot. They provide daily sup- port, be it emotional or physical support, and increase the quality of life for those who need it.

Each and every day, health-care support workers bring compassion, patience and strength to their work. It's critical that support workers are treated with the respect they deserve in our province. I want to take a moment to acknowledge the challenges and dif ficul- ties that health-care support workers have faced over the last seven and a half years.

The damage that was caused by the former gov - ernment's neglect and disregard for front-line health-care workers, like you folks with us today and those Manitobans on the front lines of our health-care system, has had a lasting impact on our ability to deliver quality health care to Manitobans. They froze your wages for over five years. They denied you the ability to practice to your full scope. They cut your jobs and they ignored your voices. The members opposite and their friends refused to do the bare minimum and even meet you at the negotiating table.

On this side of the House, we're focused on changing the culture in health care and listening to front -line health-care workers. We have been on a listening tour, listening to front-line health-care support workers for the past–over one year, and we have heard directly from you folks and your colleagues across the province what you need to see in health care to make your work-life balance, your workplaces, your lives and the work that you do every single day more fulfilling. And we're

3118 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 2024 proud to listen to your voices and to do that work alongside these front-line health-care experts. We are working together to change the culture in health care and that starts by listening, and we're going to continue to do that. I'm so glad that we were able to meet health-care support workers at the negotiating table and come to a fair deal. I want to take a moment to thank MGEU and to thank CUPE for their partnership. We know how you bring voices of the front lines forward, and the advocacy that you do for your members is commendable.

And together, we need to take care of those who care for us and our loved ones. Support workers will no longer be overlooked. Their contributions to our province will be forever remembered and respected by our government. We're creating a health-care system that works for you and for the people of our great, great province. I'm so proud to be part of a team and government that under- stands the importance of the relationships we have with front-line health-care workers and prioritize their well-being.

As a registered psychiatric nurse myself, I have seen first-hand the challenges and the complexities of our health-care system. I know the realities faced by front-line health-care workers: the long shifts, the late nights and sometimes the little to no thanks for the work that you all do. I have been so proud as a nurse for many years to work shoulder to shoulder alongside these very support workers, and it's a privilege and an honour to serve in this role and work shoulder to shoulder alongside with all of you to make health care a better place for Manitobans.

We look forward to our continued partnerships and bringing care closer to home for those who need it, and I am dedicated to creating a system that works for all of us and for all of you. And so today, we celebrate you. We recognize the invaluable contribu- tions that each of you make to our health-care system, and we are committed to supporting you in that work. Together, we will continue to build a health-care system that values every single health-care worker and patient and their families in Manitoba. I want to thank the health -care support workers who have joined us in the gallery today.

Thank you for your hard work, thank you for your dedication, thank you for your commitment to making a difference in the lives of others. Happy Health Care Support Workers' Week. I'd ask you all to stand so we can all honour you and celebrate you in the Chamber today. Thank you.

Jen Bamford, health-care representative; Karen Brown, vice-president, CUPE 204; Claire Campbell, president, CUPE 1475; Gord Delbridge, president, CUPE 500; Dale Edmunds, CUPE repre sentative; Nino Jurial, health-care repre sentative; Alex McClurg, health - care co-ordinator; Matt Mclean, CUPE researcher; Lee McLeod, regional director, CUPE; Limson Mestito, unit president, Riverview Health Centre, CUPE 500; May Quinto, president, CUPE 2180; Trish Sinclair, health-care representative; Jennifer Tucay, president, CUPE 2421 Mrs.

Kathleen Cook (Roblin): I, too, would like to welcome the health -care support workers that have joined us in the gallery today. Welcome to the Manitoba Legislature. And I rise to recognize and sincerely thank those dedicated health-care support workers across Manitoba, individuals who are the backbone of our health- care system. Day in and day out, health- care support workers provide critical services in hospitals, clinics and long- term-care facilities. They are the ones ensuring patients receive the best care possible.

T he facilities are clean, the supplies are stocked, that everyone has a hot meal and that patients have a com- passionate presence when they need it most. And I just want to share an anecdote about a health-care support worker that I know. She works in the kitchen of a rural hospital and there was a longer- term patient in that hospital who was vegan, and anybody who's vegan–I'm not personally–but they will tell you that sometimes the menu options are not great.

But this health-care support worker took it upon herself to take what they had in the kitchen and put together just a really good hot meal for that patient. And that made such a difference in his day. He actually said to her, you saved my life today. And he was so grateful, and that's, you know, she typically doesn't get a lot of glory in her job; there's not a lot of accolades and not a lot of thank-yous, but I know that meant a lot to her. And that speaks to what dedi cated health-care support workers do and the difference that they can make in patients' lives.

But, Honourable Speaker, these workers deserve more than just thanks and words. They deserve meaning- ful action from this govern ment. A recent poll from

October 29, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3119 Manitoba nursing union members, who are important colleagues of the health-care support workers that join us in the gallery today, revealed that 88 per cent of its members do not believe the NDP government has made any meaningful improvements to the health-care system over the past year. They say nothing has changed. That's nearly nine out of 10 of our front -line health- care workers saying their work is made harder, every day, because of this government's failure to live up to its huge election promises.

Health-care workers, including health-care support workers, have been in our inboxes, on social media and all over the province, saying they do not feel heard by this NDP government. And as we saw this morning during private members' hour, the NDP is far more concerned with patting itself on the back tha n taking meaningful action for health- care workers and for patients across Manitoba. We owe our health-care sup- port workers more than just gratitude; we owe them action. Thank you. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Punjabi Community Health Services Mr.

Diljeet Brar (Burrows): Today I would like to recognize Punjabi Community Health Services Manitoba. * (13:40) PCHS was esta blished in 2022 to address the health and mental wellness needs of Manitoba's grow- ing South Asian population. They got charitable status in August 2024. PCHS provides grassroots community-based ser- vices that support clients and families, accom- modating their needs by meeting them in their com - munities, homes or cultural spaces, ensuring that their clients are connected to the ap propriate resources as soon as possible.

PCHS has identified the need for a women's coun- sellor and em phasized the importance of ongoing system navigation and outreach support from their social worker. PCHS Manitoba has developed part - nerships that focus on the well -being of the South Asian population in Manitoba. Working with the restorative justice committee, the PCHS is ensuring that clients in the legal system receive culturally appropriate mental health counselling and family services.

Recently they partnered with the Ontario PCHS branch to launch a South Asian youth peer support group next fall and refine accredited group therapy programs in a South Asian cultural context. Through an evidence-based approach, the PCHS aims to build community capacity with a focus on pre- vention, wellness and cultural competency through collaborations that work towards meeting the needs of Manitoba's growing South Asian population.

Please join me in welcoming PCHS vice chair, Rupinder Brar, secretary on the board and contracted social worker, Roni Dhaliwal, and volunteers to the gallery and in recognizing the incredible work they do in supporting the well-being of Manitobans. Shukria [Thank you], Honourable Speaker. Ryan Kristalovich MLA Bob Lagassé (Dawson Trail): Today, I honour Mr. Ryan Kristalovich. Ryan is a resident of Lorette, Manitoba. He has dedicated his career protecting and promoting public safety. He also volunteers his time within Lorette and the hockey community.

Around Christmastime, after not feeling bright, he went to his doctor and was sent to a surgeon. It was at this time that the surgeon advised him that they had found a cancerous tumour. He then went to surgery to remove the tumour along with many lymph nodes. There was a node with cancer found. Ryan started a three-month chemotherapy cycle and on August 27, 2024, he received his last chemo treatment. As some of you may know, when you are done your treatment, you ring a bell to signify your end of a–of your treatment and to signify a positive look forward. Unfor tunately, at the clinic, there was no bell.

His wife posted on a local Facebook page, asking the community members to step outside, honk a horn, bang on a pot or ring a bell. On August 7, unbeknownst to him, horns and honking started. The Lorette fire department led a parade of over 40 vehicles, all honking and ringing, celebrating the end of Ryan's treatment. Ryan was completely over - whelmed at that moment, having no idea what–that it was going to happen. And he was extremely shocked with the support. We contacted Ryan to ask for some words of advice for others who might be going through their health battles. His answer was: family and commu - nity.

During a cancer diagnosis, there are many uncertain- ties, so many fears, and the key to his mental support

3120 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 2024 was family and friends. Ryan says the hockey com - munity in Lorette would check in, make sure him and his family knew they were there for all the support that may have been needed. He was so in credibly grateful for his employer, for his co -workers and the constant check- ins and well-wishes, his family and friends and his neighbours and even some strangers, to ensure they were all okay. Ryan, thank you for being open and sharing your story, because there are many individuals who found hope and peace in your journey.

Colleagues, please stand and welcome Ryan. Ryan, we are here with you, standing in your corner. Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry MLA David Pankratz (Waverley): Today I rise to recognize the extraordinary bravery of the 2nd Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry for their response to the recent wildfires in Jasper. This summer, Jasper faced devastating fires, and when help was needed, the soldiers of 2 PPCLI from Shilo responded swiftly, showing courage and selflessness.

And as a former firefighter, I understand the immense challenges of firefighting: the physical and mental demands, the risks and the need for quick, decisive action. These soldiers faced these challenges with resilience, and their dedication is both commend- able and inspiring. The efforts of 2 PPCLI exemplify the highest standards of service. Working closely with officers, first responders and government officials, they played a vital role in firefighting, evacuation support and pro- tecting the community. Their commitment to service before self stands as a powerful example for us all.

And in the face of unprecedented wildfire challenges, 2 PPCLI mobilized with skill and a profound sense of purpose. Today, we honour the members of 2 PPCLI and all emergency responders for their unwavering courage. They are a source of hope and strength for our com - munities, and we are deeply grateful for their service. Manitoba is proud to be home to 2 PPCLI and the Canadian Armed Forces members who embody the best of our province and our country, always ready to answer the call.

I would like to acknowledge the following members of 2 PPCLI who have joined us here in the gallery today: Lieutenant-Colonel Braybrook, Chief Warrant Officer Barter, Warrant Officer Ryan, Private Pilipaitees, Corporal Guiboche, Master Corporal Stevens and Master Corporal Salustro. Thank you so much. Celebrating 150 Years of Mennonites in Manitoba Mr. Josh Guenter (Borderland): This year marks 150 years of Mennonites in Manitoba.

To commemorate this anniversary, I joined many constituents in the village of Neubergthal several weeks ago for a screening of Where the Cottonwoods Grow, a docu mentary by filmmaker and Halbstadt native Dale Hildebrand. The film tells the story of the first Mennonite migration from southern Russia to southern Manitoba between 1874 and 1880, with a focus on the difficult circumstances they faced. Both United States and Canada were aggressively competing at that time to attract Mennonites to their open prairies, and 10,000 moved to places like Kansas, while 7,000 moved to southern Manitoba.

Some Mennonites stayed in the east reserve, th e area in which Steinbach is located, while others moved to the west reserve, in which Altona and Winkler are located. After disembarking at the confluence of the Red and Rat rivers and spending one month at Fort Dufferin near Emerson, they struck out further west, but not before tragically suffering the loss of over 30 babies and children in one month due to sickness. It was the Mennonites who first dug wells and found water west of the Red River, and so established communities that today are peaceful and prosperous.

Thousands of Mennonites would be prosecuted, heavily fined and even jailed in the 1910s and '20s for exer - cising their right to raise their children in their own schools as opposed to government-run schools. Despite their pacifist views, they bought more war bonds in World War I than the average Manitoban, and half of eligible young men volunteered to fight in World War II. Mennonites have always been generous and compassionate, and they established organizations like Mennonite Disaster Service and Mennonite Central Committee, the MCC thrift stores that are still popular in our communities today.

Olympian Cindy Klassen, philanthropist and busi- nessman Johnny [phonetic] Buhler and the member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen), former premier and now a distinguished member of the opposition backbenches, represents some of the contributions of Mennonites to Manitoba's rich cultural fabric. Here's to the next 150 years.

October 29, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3121 Manitoba Summer Games Volunteers Hon. Ron Kostyshyn (Minister of Agriculture): Honourable Speaker, today I would like to recognize the volunteers responsible for the success of the 2024 Manitoba summer games in Dauphin. This past August, games took place in Dauphin, Gilbert Plains golf club, Northgate Trails and Manipogo Provincial Park. Over 1,500 athletes, 300 coaches and 750 volunteers participated. Carla Wolfenden and Clayton Swanton were the games co -ordinate chairs.

Due to pandemic delays for over six years, they dedicated their time to working with Sports Manitoba and 39 subcommittees. * (13:50) During the games, 700 volunteers worked daily shifts from 4:30 a.m. 'til 11 p.m. This represented over 14,000 of hours of volunteering. My wife Judy and I can attest to the exceptional organization of the games. Co-ordinator Bryan Mento [phonetic] was one paid staff for the games who did excellent job. Over $2.5 million in capital infrastructure projects were leveraged for the games.

Im provements to the Northgate Trail, building a new rubberized track, con- struction of an outdoor basketball court at the local high school reflects the legacies of the games. Thank you to all the ones that were involved. Introduction of Guests The Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I have several guests in the gallery I'd like to introduce. First off, I'd like to draw the attention of all hon - ourable members to the public gallery, where we have with us today Duane Davison and Scott Phillips, who are the guests of the honour able member for Spruce Woods (Mr. Jackson).

On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you here today. I would like to draw the attention of all honour - able members at public gallery, where we have with us today Gord Delbridge, Lee McLeod, Karen Brown, Trish Sinclair, Matt Mclean, Dale Edmunds, Limson Mestito, Nino Jurial, Alex McClurg, Jen Branford [phonetic], Claire Campbell, Jennifer Tucay, May Quinto, who are the guests of the honour able member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara). We welcome all of you here today.

For the–[interjection] I would also like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery, where we have with us today Ryan Kristalovich, who is a guest of the honourable member for Dawson Trail (MLA Lagassé). And on behalf of all honour able members, we welcome you here today. I would like to also draw the attention of all hon- ourable members to the public gallery, where we have with us today Louise Chernetz and George Chernetz, who are the guests of the honourable member for Red River North (Mr. Wharton). On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you here today.

ORAL QUESTIONS Security Rebate Program Small Business Uptake The Speaker: Oral questions. [interjection] The hon- ourable Leader of the Official Opposition. Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Leader of the Official Opposition): Honourable Speaker, the NDP pro - mised $2.5 million for security rebates, announced only $500,000, tricked media into covering it more than three times with fake increases. The $2 -million budget still fell short of the original promise. Now, we're hearing only $300,000 is out the door after a complete year. And worse, Honourable Speaker, less than 2 per cent went to businesses.

Will the Premier accept personal respon sibility for failing to support Manitoba businesses and apolo- gize for the photo op that him and his minister takes on multiple occasions? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): This is a great initiative and I'm very proud of the work that the Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe) has done to help Manitobans in their time of need. I also want to take this opportunity to congratulate David Eby on his re-election as the Premier of British Columbia. It's great news to see that we'll be able to get to work together to help people right across western Canada.

And I want to say that, even though I have taken the oppor tunity to joke with him a little bit about how long it took to count the votes, I will be working very, very closely with him on our shared interests around health care and affordability. I also want to take this opportunity to congratulate my colleague, Scott Moe, on his re-election last night.

3122 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 2024 Now, Scott is the dean of the premiers across Canada and I always look forward to having conver sations with him at the Council of the Federation. And now that we have that news, I know that those good chats will continue. And, of course, perhaps our two teams will meet in the CFL's Western Final as well, so stay tuned for that. The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Ewasko: Yes, from our PC team as well, we'd like to congratulate Mr.

Scott Moe and, of course–and David Eby, and both are extremely great leaders for their provinces. Unlike the Premier, who dodged again and denied to answer any questions in regards to making sure that our Manitoba busi nesses are safe right here in Manitoba. Matter of fact, crime is up 11 per cent year over year, and it's getting worse under this Premier. Victims endured hardships and incurred costs. Premier, on the record, re peatedly claiming security rebate makes small businesses safer. That's just clearly not true, Honourable Speaker. Very few even applied and even less were successful.

Will the Premier commit today to a security program designed specifically to help Manitoba businesses? Mr. Kinew: Businesses across Manitoba have been giving us very good feedback on the Minister of Justice's (Mr. Wiebe) initiative to combat retail theft. In fact, the only question that we typically get is, when are you going to be able to expand these suc - cessful initiatives to more parts of the province, and I can tell you that we are hard at work to ensure that that same data-driven, results-focused approach is going to reach out to more parts of Manitoba.

We can point to increases for law enforcement in this year's budget. We can point to a security rebate program which is getting money into the hands of Manitobans at a time that they need it. We could also point the finger at an opposi tion that tries to delay and disparage a bill designed to combat crimes using machetes in the province. Again, it's unclear where they stand on public safety, but we can say this unequivocally on our side of the House: we stand with you to make Manitoba safer. The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary question. Mr.

Ewasko: The only finger pointing the Premier should be doing is to his House leader, who has absolutely shown how dysfunctional that team of NDP Cabinet ministers can be, Honourable Speaker. But this is what the Premier does. He uses politi- cal messaging to generate photo ops. Four announce- ments for a single program, still fell half a million short of its budget, but he quadrupled the original amount. It's all spin, Honour able Speaker, and Manitobans just aren't buying it. He then uses that coverage as a shield if ever criticized. We asked in this House, what will you do to make businesses safer?

He responded, security rebate. We know now that this is not true and that was designed to only trick people, Honourable Speaker. The Premier has the opportunity to rise in his place today and apologize for misleading all Manitobans. Will he do this –will he do so today, Hon ourable Speaker? Mr. Kinew: You know, I look at the opposition benches some days and, you know, they're just wondering what is going on with their leader when he starts in question period. So I'll just, you know, maybe pose some questions for the members opposite. Do you respect law enforcement?

Do you want law en forcement to get more funding? Do you want government to be helping Manitobans feel safer? The Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. I would just remind the First Minister that com- ments need to be directed through the Chair, not directly to members. The honourable leader of the–the honourable First Minister. [interjection] Stop the clock, please. The honourable First Minister. Mr. Kinew: Well, no, that wasn't the end of my answer. I sat down because you stood–[interjection] The Speaker: Order, please. The honourable First Minister does have a couple of seconds left. Mr.

Kinew: So I ask the members opposite: Do you like law en forcement? Do you want to see them get the proper resources? Do you want a government that takes action to make Manitobans safer?

October 29, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3123 Well, I say to th 77e PCs: You've got it with the Manitoba NDP. The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Public Safety Government Record Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Leader of the Official Opposition): Honourable Speaker, again, showcasing today the Premier, in all his glory, being part of the Broadway bullies of the NDP side. * (14:00) In the spring, Honour able Speaker, the Premier went to a public safety summit. He told attendees, and I quote, Manitobans are feeling unsafe at home, at work and in our–in their communities.

After more than one year of the NDP being in government, can the Premier please share– [interjection] The Speaker: Order. Mr. Ewasko: –whether Manitobans feel safer at home, at work or in their communities? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): We know that public safety is an impor tant priority for govern ment. And where previous PC govern ments wanted to go pick fights in Ottawa, we are focused on you, the people right here in Manitoba. And so what I told attendees at the public safety summit in the spring is that we're going to be tough on crime. We're also going to be tough on the causes of crime.

We have increased funding for police forces right across the province, after years of their funding being frozen under the PCs. But this year, again, over the objections of the Progressive Conservatives under Heather Stefanson, we brought in a uni versal school meal program. That ensures that every child who shows up at school can learn because they don't have an empty stomach. And when we extrapolate out over the generations-long timeline, we know that that will not only help to make communities safer right across Manitoba, it's going to also lead to better health, edu- cational and economic outcomes as well.

The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Ewasko: We know that this Premier prefers fighting with his own–within his own caucus just like his mentor, Greg Selinger, enjoyed doing. Honourable Speaker, the Justice Minister said the public safety summit was, I quote, part of the NDP government's plan to get tough on crime, end quote. It's confusing, because they talked about having a plan for years when in opposition and, again, just not true, Honourable Speaker. That was more than six months ago.

More than half of Manitobans surveyed say they feel less safe than they did three years ago. Violent crime is on the rise. Random stabbings and violent attacks are more common even in the NDP caucus, and more busi - nesses are victims of crime as well. What actions has his government taken since the public safety summit, Honourable Speaker? Mr. Kinew: In this year's budget, we increased funding to law enforcement by way of urban policing grants by 28 per cent. It's nearly a 30 per cent increase in our first year in office. And now we know that the member for Fort Whyte (Mr.

Khan) or the member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Ewasko) or whoever is kicking the can of PC leadership down that very dusty, boring road is probably, you know, trying to ignore the recollections of their defund-the-police billboards. One thing we can say for certain: the only people trying to defund the police in Manitoba are the members opposite because last night they voted against our budget's increase to law enforcement in Manitoba. The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary– Order, please. Order, please.

I'd just ask the government bench, in particular, to calm down a little. We had a good day yesterday. Let's try and keep it going today. Mr. Ewasko: Once again, we see the Premier stand up in this House and put disinformation on the record, as usual. But there's nothing new with you-know-who, the MLA for Fort Rouge. The stats don't lie, Hon ourable Speaker. Violent crime is on the rise, up 31 per cent over a five- year average. And, according to a new report, the number of small businesses directly impacted by crime and community safety issues has nearly doubled over one year.

The CFIB says this impact on mental health and well-being is truly frustrating. Some busi nesses lock their doors while operating for safety. Businesses say they feel frustrated and helpless.

3124 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 2024 I know that the member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara) is waiting to get up and say a few words. Maybe they will turn to their Premier and ask for time on the clock, Honourable Speaker. The NDP's response, according to CBC, is to force the police to work more overtime. Can the Premier confirm that he has no plan other than forcing burnout on the police, and can he provide– The Speaker: The member's time has expired. The member's time has expired. The honour able Leader of the Official Op posi- tion. Sorry. The honourable First Minister. Mr.

Kinew: Sincerely, I want to thank you for inter - rupting, because now the cringing is over for the members opposite. We know that the situation for workers on the front lines is a very serious responsibility that all of us in government need to uphold.

That's why we have been taking action in initiatives not just like the retail theft, which has gotten very positive reviews from business leaders and from front -line employees, but also through investments like the Downtown Commu- nity Safety Partner ship, which we are now seeing some very encouraging data from over the additional investment that we were able to provide this summer. Of course it extends to 190 Disraeli, where we are seeing additional investments in a health-based approach to many of the addictions crises that we see.

So what we're bringing forward, Honour able Speaker, is a comprehensive approach, something that lacked for years under the members opposite, who wanted to infantilize Manitobans with catchphrases and slogans. A real public safety approach is here under this government. It's mature– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Assault on U of M Student Campus Safety Concerns Mrs. Kathleen Cook (Roblin): The recent brutal assault on a University of Manitoba student by a high- risk sex offender with an extensive history of violent and sexual crimes is deeply concerning.

This young woman, demonstrating immense strength, was forced to fend for herself against an intruder in her own dorm room, who reportedly attempted to choke and suffocate her. In the wake of this horrific incident, University of Manitoba students are expressing grave concerns about safety on campus, particularly within their dormitory. With students and staff understandably shaken, what specific actions is the NDP taking to support post-secondary institutions to ensure student safety on campus? Hon.

Renée Cable (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): This is a question that I am sad that I have to stand up on at all. It's a really unfor tunate incident, and I just want first and foremost to speak to the survivor and commend you for your bravery and to let you know that our hearts are with you and with the full campus community. The Speaker: The honourable member for Roblin, on a supplementary question. High-Risk Sex Offenders Increased Surveillance Request Mrs.

Kathleen Cook (Roblin): The individual accused of this horrific act is a convicted sex offender, about whom two warnings have been issued since his initial release from prison late last year. He has committed multiple violent sexual assaults and has been deemed a high risk to reoffend. Tragically, that assessment appears to have proven accurate, and now another young woman's life has changed forever. The onus should not be on women to be strong in the face of violence, no matter how strong they are. The onus is on the government to do everything it can to keep these violent crimes from happening at all.

In the wake of this horrific act, will the Minister of Justice today commit to expanding surveillance for high-risk sex offenders in Manitoba? Hon. Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I want to join with my colleague to express our deepest sympathies for the victim in this case and to all students who are feeling unsafe right now.

As the member outlined, this is a federal jurisdic- tion, and we know that premiers from across the country joined together to advocate directly to the Prime Minister recently, to enhance bail and to make our communities safer by making–reviewing and making changes once again at the federal level. I joined with my counterparts in Yellowknife just recently. The provinces were united in that same call, and we communicated that directly to the federal minis- ters. We'll continue to bring that message directly to Ottawa. The Speaker: The honourable member for Roblin, on a final supplementary question.

October 29, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3125 Mrs. Cook: Well, bail reform is des perately needed, but it wouldn't have helped in this case. According to Statistics Canada, three out of every 10 women over the age of 15 have been sexually assaulted at least once since their 15th birthday. Since last week, I, and I know others, have received multiple emails and phone calls from constituents who are appalled by this horrific incident. Sexual violence in our com munity strikes fear into the hearts of all women, vulnerable persons and the people that love them.

The attack at the U of M underscores the urgent need for decisive govern ment action. People in our community do not feel safe right now. Will the NDP commit today to ensuring that high- risk offenders are better tracked, surveilled and managed, especially around uni versities and other areas with vulnerable– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. * (14:10) Mr. Wiebe: Again, as the member opposite identified, there are steps that we can take within the province of Manitoba with regards to tracking and ensuring safety for all, and especially the vulner able in our com mu- nity.

We are proud this summer to reinstate the electronic monitoring program, a program that, unfor- tunately, was cut under Heather Stefanson. We were able to bring that back, and what we're going to be doing is expanding that program and looking for more oppor tunities to ensure that there's safety in our communities. We're willing to work with law enforcement, with our courts and judges to make sure we get it right, and there's going to be more news on this front very shortly, Honourable Speaker. Release of Violent Offenders Public Safety Concerns Mr.

Wayne Balcaen (Brandon West): This Saturday in broad daylight, a woman was a victim of a horrific and violent carjacking just blocks away from this very place. She suffered sig nificant injuries trying to go about her day when the criminals ran her over with her own vehicle. This is just one of a series of violent crimes with shocking headlines in recent days. Manitobans deserve to feel safe, end of story. Instead, we have a Premier (Mr. Kinew) that tells the media he's shocked to hear about a violent offender accidentally released by his own government.

What is the minister doing to restore the public's faith in public safety? Hon. Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Well, Honourable Speaker, it starts with a relationship with community, with law en forcement, with businesses, and with so many in our community who are working towards the same goal. It's about being one Manitoba, looking for solutions together. And I think the basis for that conversation and for that relationship starts by listening, and it starts by showing in real terms how we're willing to fund our police and make sure that they have the resources that they need.

As the Premier mentioned, 28 per cent in this year's budget to ensure that police have the resources that they need. This is just one step that we're taking to show police, municipalities, local leadership and community that we're serious about this and we're getting to work as a govern ment. There's more to come, Honourable Speaker. The Speaker: The honourable member for Brandon West, on a supplementary question. Request for Bail Reform Mr. Balcaen: Honourable Speaker, Manitobans want to see their government take action. Instead, all we get is regular reminders of the NDP mentality.

Members who spoke against calls for bail reform and said it was unneeded now sit in power as average citizens are forced to intervene and stop violent robberies while out for dinner, only to read that as citizens, they held the assailant longer than this Justice Minister's justice system. How many Manitobans need to suffer life-altering injuries before this minister realizes that we can't go at it alone and we need real, strong bail reform? Mr.

Wiebe: And the member opposite knows we took action immediately, a five -point bail plan developed in conjunction with the National Police Federation, who brought real solutions that we could implement here in Manitoba. But if we want to talk about the mentality, the PC mentality when it came to violent crime in our com- munity, of course, there wasn't an extra cent in a PC budget for law enforce ment over seven years, and what did we see? Aggravated assault was the second highest in the country.

Sexual assault, the first or second highest rate every single year from '16 to '23; robbery, the highest rate every year from '16 to '23; homicides increased every single year from 2018 and was double the second-place city.

3126 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 2024 All the while, not one– The Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable member for Brandon West, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Balcaen: Offenders know that they can be out on the streets again in the blink of an eye under this gov- ernment's watch. Sometimes after a judge has even specifically labeled them a do not release. When the Premier (Mr. Kinew) with a small army of political staff regularly express that he's finding out infor ma- tion in the media, it shakes Manitobans' faith to know that no one is really at the wheel.

Will the minister tell the public today if the review of the failings will be internally or externally reviewed, and will he commit to releasing the full list of these recommendations to all Manitobans? Mr. Wiebe: Well, Honourable Speaker, the most im- portant thing when it comes to incidents like this is ensuring that the public has the information as quickly as possible. I do want to take a moment to just recognize the incredible work of the RCMP to secure the individuals in question to make sure that the community was safe and to get that infor mation, as well, back out to the community.

As well, our integrated violent offender apprehension unit, who just recently recognized their 500th arrest, is to be commended here as well. They just brought out a new website for Manitoba's most wanted. We're seeing good results there as well. You know, this kind of work, Honourable Speaker, is important. It's important to Manitobans. We know that we get this– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Victim Services–Wait Times Constituent Concern Mrs.

Carrie Hiebert (Morden-Winkler): Honourable Speaker, in August a teenager was brutally assaulted with a machete and required three surgeons to repair the damage to his hands, nerves and scarring on his face. He qualifies for the Compensation for Victims of Crime program, but his mother waited weeks for a response from the department. This is unacceptable. Can the minister share what are the average wait times–what the wait–average wait time is? How long do victims have to wait to get a response from Victim Services? Hon.

Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Honourable Speaker, as I shared last night as we were attempting to move our machete–our bill on restriction of machetes through the Legislature here late into the night last night, we –our heart goes out to all victims. In fact, we had a chance to–I had a chance to put some words on the record directly to that young person who experienced this horrific attack. It is important to take action on machetes, and, of course, we're working towards that.

What I do want to say, though, is when it comes to victims of crime, we've been in touch with that family directly to ensure that the supports are in place, and we'r e willing to work with any victims to ensure that they have support from our department; it's an important part of what we do. The Speaker: The honourable member for Morden- Winkler, on a supplementary question. Mrs. Hiebert: Honourable Speaker, it wasn't until the mother went to the media that she got a response. This was after she waited a month.

Her son required specialized equip ment in order to cover –recover at home that would be incred ibly costly. She described the lack of a–of com munication from the office as disrespectful. What steps has this minister taken to ensure this oversight and delay is not repeated for future inquiries into the program? Mr. Wiebe: Again, these are good questions, and I appreciate the questions and the tone in which they're being asked because I think it's an issue that all sides can come together on.

What we were able to ensure was that we doubled the number of adjudicators with Victim Services to ensure that we have the right resources in place. We identified issues with regards to the forms that victims and their families were having to fill out and to ensure that that information was more clear. And, of course, there's more to come, Honourable Speaker. We'll be talking more about victims and steps that we can take as a gov ernment to ensure that they get the support that they need. The Speaker: The honourable member for Morden- Winkler, on a final supplementary question. Mrs.

Hiebert: Honourable Speaker, victims of crime and violent attacks often require complex care, and costs can add up quickly. Many can't afford to cover the costs they need to cover the necessary equipment and care they require to recover at home.

October 29, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3127 It is unacceptable that it took coverage by the media to get a response from this office. With increasing attacks and the unfortunate reality that more victims will need to access supports, what is the minister doing to ensure timely communication from his department? Mr. Wiebe: Again, it's important to note that the case manager was in touch with the family. I know that additional resources and support were provided, and I think that's an impor tant success but obviously more to do.

That's why, as part of our public safety strategy, we're going to be talking more about the rights of victims and the ability of govern ment to ensure that the right resources are in place, and it's an im portant priority. It's not just about, as we tal ked about, being tough on crime but the causes of crime and support for victims is an important part of that entire package. So it's going to be some thing the minister –the member opposite, I hope, will support going forward. It's work that we're intending to take on very soon. * (14:20) Rural Property Crime Request for Plan to Address Mr.

Grant Jackson (Spruce Woods): Property crime is on the rise, particularly in rural Manitoba, with Manitobans feeling like there are less and less conse- quences for those that are perpetrating these offences. The minister has failed to respond to this issue in any real or significant way. So when is this NDP gov ernment going to get serious, introduce real consequences for those criminals and stop the crime? Hon.

Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): You know, I was pleased as part of our public safety summit to not only start in Winnipeg with over 500 attendees coming together–community, law en forcement, municipal leaders –but to actually take that on the road. We went to communities across the province: Brandon, we were in Swan River with the Premier (Mr. Kinew); we were in Swan River meeting with the folks out there. We were in Lac du Bonnet.

We were all over the province, Honourable Speaker, up to Thompson, offering real solutions, but also listening to the people in those com munities about how we can help keep those com munities safe. It starts, as I said, with funding and making sure that the funding that the PCs froze for seven years is now been restored, but it's about the next steps, and there's a comprehensive package we'll be excited– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Mr.

Jackson: We understand that the minister has heard from the folks from Riverdale and the other municipalities that live in the Blue Hills RCMP district about the fact that his decision to shutter the Rivers Police Service and not add any additional officers to the Blue Hills RCMP district is not 'acceptibable.' So instead of doorbell cameras and shutting municipal police forces, this minister should be t aking real steps to prevent these crimes from happening in the first place. Will this minister get serious and take some real action today? Mr.

Wiebe: Well, Hon ourable Speaker, I mean it couldn't be more clear to anybody that's spent time in rural Manitoba, and I'd encourage the member oppo- site to spend some time out there because what he'll see is, is that members outside the Perimeter, people outside the Perimeter, have been crying out for support for policing across this province. They had a government in the Heather Stefanson govern ment that, for seven years, cut their funding down to the bone. And what was the result? Well, places l ike Rivers weren't able to recruit and retain the members that they needed. That was the mess that we inherited.

We stepped in to clean it up. We're working with municipalities . In fact, I think I met with just 20 of his rural con stit- uency municipal leaders just the other day. He wasn't there, but they were there, and we were working together– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Mr. Jackson: The hilarious part of that entire diatribe from the Minister of Justice is he talks about spending time in rural Manitoba, except he met with the munici- pal leaders from my constituency over Zoom because he couldn't be bothered to get outside the Perimet er Highway himself.

He had to Zoom on a constituency week when we're not in session to go have a meeting with them. So he's absolutely full of baloney. Manitobans know it. Here in Winnipeg, they– The Speaker: Order, please. I would ask the member for Spruce Woods to withdraw that comment and apologize.

3128 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 2024 Mr. Jackson: Certainly, Honourable Speaker. I apolo- gize for the use of my word–the word, baloney. The Speaker: I would ask the honourable member for Spruce Woods to offer a proper apology and withdraw his comments. Mr. Jackson: I apologize and withdraw the comment. Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): What you see on display today is the reason why Manitobans chose to show the PCs the door in last year's election. There is an obsession with talking points and reciting things that they hear on social media with a complete disregard for the facts.

Our team is very humbled to have been asked by you, the great people of Manitoba, to serve you, and I could not be prouder of the Attorney General (Mr. Wiebe) that we have. Here is a person who speaks with compassion for the vulnerable, who has a strong hand when it comes to holding people account- able and yet still is also making the investments so that those who choose to take a path on a better life for themselves will be able to do so in this great province. The Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe) embodies the best of us here in Manitoba.

He is bringing people together and I want to say to the people across this province: you chose the right team when you elected somebody with this level of character to lead our justice system and public safety initiative. Private Minor Illness and Injury Clinics Government Support Inquiry MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): According to recent media reports, this government has issued a request to run two privately funded minor injury and illness clinics. Last month, the privately funded clinic at the Grace Hospital opened, and next month the privately funded Misecordia [phonetic] hospital clinic is set to open.

This is concern ing consid ering not long ago, when this gov ernment was in op position, they were clearly against privatizing public clinics. Honourable Speaker, Manitobans deserve to know what changed. Why is this govern ment now sup- porting the privatization of public health clinics? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): I thank the member for that really important question. It gives me the opportunity to talk about how our gov ernment is making invest- ments to enhance access to primary care.

Under the previous PC govern ment, Manitobans saw not only health-care workers driven away and out of our province and off the front lines, but they also saw the Heather Stefanson administration cut the very health care that Manitobans need in order to s tay healthy in their own com munities and to mitigate them having to go to emergency de partments to get that care. So yes, we're making invest ments to strengthen primary care. I do think the member's mistaken in some of her information. I'd be happy to 'keer thar' up– 'keel' that up for her. The extended primary- care clinics are publicly funded and operated.

We've got doctors from across the city supporting those sites for Manitobans. The Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a supplementary question. Impact on Unionized Nurses MLA Lamoureux: Just last year on May 23, 2023, our current Health minister said, and I quote: Instead of investing in our public health- care system, the Premier is yet again choosing to send money out of province to private for-profit providers instead. This is why Manitobans are confused as to what this govern ment is doing with respect to opening privately funded clinics right here in Manitoba.

I've received emails from health-care workers who want to know what this will mean to the union workers currently employed at the public walk-in connected to the private-care clinic. Does this in any way affect them? MLA Asagwara: Again, I really appreciate that question. It allows me to put some correct infor mation on the record. That member is absolutely correct. I was highly critical of the previous failed PC administration, who spent millions upon millions of dollars, more money out of the country than they ever spent investing in making our health-care system stronger in Manitoba.

So I stand by those comments. We are making invest ments like 'extendedit' – extended-hours primary-care clinics right in our pro- vince, right in our own community so that Manitobans can get more access to primary care. We're hiring hundreds of new front -line health-care workers into the public health -care system. We're partnering with our regional health authorities to deliver public access to primary-care services.

October 29, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3129 But we also value our private partners who we have strong relationships– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. The Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary question. Fee for Services MLA Lamoureux: Improvements to primary care is critical in local communities, but there is a big need to ensure the services are still accessible to those who are needing them. For example, we know there were many free services before privatization.

Can the minister share with us today what ser - vices are still being offered at these private clinics free of charge, and what services now have out -of-pocket fees for Manitobans? MLA Asagwara: Honourable Speaker, I am disappointed the member is putting information on the record that is just incorrect. As a government, we're investing in more access to public health -care services in part nership with frontline family doctors who provide primary care across this great province of ours.

We are making sure Manitobans have access to public health care, primary care, from the very doctors and nurse practitioners and front-line health-care workers that they depend on. * (14:30) Net new 873 more health- care workers on the front lines, including 116 doctors, many of which are working in these clinics delivering public primary care for Manitobans. I'd be happy to clarify this for the member if she didn't understand our press releases, but I encourage her to support the information getting out there– The Speaker: The member's time has expired. Primary Care Accessibility Manitoba Results Mr.

Diljeet Brar (Burrows): Honourable Speaker, after years of cuts by the Stefanson PCs, Manitobans struggle to find a family doctor. Wait times for things like hip and knee surgeries soared, health-care workers were fired and patients suffered. Under the former PC govern ment, Manitobans felt nothing but pain. But after a year of hard-working NDP gov ernment and Health Minister, we are bringing to see improvements–we are beginning to see improvements. Last week, the Canadian institute of health infor- mation released a report on primary care accessibility.

Can the Minister of Health tell us about this report and what it means for Manitoba? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): I thank my friend for that really, really wonderful question. I am pleased to report to the House that after a year of our NDP gov- ernment, 85 per cent of Manitobans have access to a primary-care provider, the third highest in Canada. And so far this year, we've hired 873 net new health-care workers or we are well on track to 1,000.

We'll continue to invest in public primary care, and I'd like to thank those health- care workers who have joined our front lines of the health- care system – 88 per cent of hip fractures are being done within the 48 hours, well above the national average. And Manitoba's primary-care providers have been wonderful partners in fixing the damage done by the previous government. More work to do, more good news on the way– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Crime in Rural Communities Request for Police Services Ms.

Jodie Byram (Agassiz): We have heard a lot about urban crime in this Chamber, but I need to remind the minister that rural communities are seeing large spikes as well. The difference is that while the minister is quick to provide funding for additional hours of Winnipeg Police Service patrol, many of our rural communities who once knew their local officers are lucky to see a patrol car drive by a couple times a week. Can the minister explain when rural communities will be getting additional police hours like downtown Winnipeg? Hon.

Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I'd just like to remind the member opposite that she voted against a 28 per cent increase to policing across this province, and I wanted to outline exactly what that impact looks like to communities all across the province. Lac du Bonnet was a $33,000 increase. Steinbach: $800,000; Portage la Prairie : $500,000; Winkler: $600,000; Selkirk: $400,000; Morden: $500,000; Stonewall: $190,000; Brandon: $2 million more for policing in rural Manitoba. I wonder why the member

3130 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 2024 opposite would vote against such improvement to part- nerships with law enforcement. The Speaker: The honourable member for Agassiz, on a supplementary question. Ms. Byram: I've heard from con stituents about the significant increase in rural crime. In Winnipeg, you don't know how many minutes away the police may be if you call. In rural com munities, you don't know how many hours that help is away. I've spoken with a single mother who lives in her farmyard with her two teenage daughters.

A $300 security camera gives her no sense of peace knowing that there are criminals cruising rural roads, and if a yard light burns out, she might look like a tempt ing target. What does this minister say to my constituents like this mother that feel unsafe? Mr. Wiebe: Again, Honour able Speaker, the 2021 StatsCan report on impact on rural crime versus urban crime–we know that the highest homicide rate was for rural areas in the country. The highest physical assault rate for rural areas in the country was under the Stefanson gov ernment as well.

The second highest rate of impaired driving rate was for rural areas. In the entire country, under this PC gov ernment, their record was freezes, was cuts, was no action at all. We are working with municipalities; we're looking forward to meeting with the AMM. We've been out across the province over the last number of months. We're listening to Manitobans, we're bringing them a solid plan that shows that we're willing to work together and it all starts with– The Speaker: The member's time has expired. The time for question period has expired.

Introduction of Guests The Speaker: And I have some other guests that I would like to draw the honour able–all honourable members' attention to the public gallery, where we have with us today, although I'm not sure they're still there, Rupinder Brar and Roni Dhaliwal, who are the guests of the honourable member for Burrows (Mr. Brar), and on behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you to the Chamber. * * * The Speaker: Petitions? GRIEVANCES Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): I've been increasingly alarmed at how the Premier (Mr. Kinew) and others in this Chamber have been politicizing the justice system.

The govern ment of Manitoba administers the justice system. It needs to be seen as neutral and impartial. The Attorney General is a different role than the Minister of Justice. It acts as a referee, ensures that the system is neutral, in dependent and free from political influence. This is one of the pillars of our democracy and one of the bases of the rule of law. The justice system only functions if it's seen as legitimate in the eyes of Manitobans. Manitobans will only respect the decisions if they believe that they are impartial and free from outside influences.

At one time, victims had to prosecute their owns cases. Only wealthy victims could access the system, and very few victims had their cases prosecuted. By professionalizing the prosecution service, rich and poor alike could have their cases heard. And public prosecutions would often be detached from situations, removing the emotion, safeguarding the public interest from blood libel and protecting innocent and unlawfully convicted accused, making sure sentences are appropriate to the wrongdoing and not acting out of vengeful or abusive, you know, intent.

Public prosecutions are a safeguard to our system and keep the legitimacy of that system. They are meant to insulate the public from this type of undue pressure. Now, in a democracy, the Province must establish the rule of law and signal that the justice system is free from interference and it's neutral and fair. The Province employs both prosecutors and defence lawyers. It is a referee of the system and has to remain out of the day- to-day court cases. Manitobans are rightly shocked in often high- profile cases and what follows, but that doesn't resolve the govern ment of its duty to stay impartial and neutral.

One of the issues facing our justice system is that it's not a team sport. The premier doesn't take sides. It's not there for the premier to root for one side or the other to win. The Premier and others have continued to cross this line. The problem is when the Premier speaks, he's not speaking as an individual, he's speaking on behalf of the entire govern ment of Manitoba. And when he

October 29, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3131 weighs in on a case, the Province of Manitoba is taking sides. This attacks the very legitimacy of the justice system. It's no longer neutral and inde pendent. The weight of the Premier's (Mr. Kinew) office is being used to send a signal to who the Premier wants pro - secuted and what outcome they're seeking. If you are a defendant, even an unpopular one, will you get a fair trial in Manitoba because of the Premier's comments? Who is the Premier trying to influence with his comments? It has the potential–the real potential–to derail high -profile cases.

It's of ten seen as an abuse of process and can derail the pro - secution. This ultimately places all Manitobans at risk. I've also had some concerns about the politiciza - tion of victims. They have been used as political props. There is certainly nothing wrong with victims meeting with politicians to advocate for changes in policy. But that often is not what occurs. What often occurs is a meeting with politicians to try to influence the in dependent prosecution's branch decisions.

Victims may be very unhappy about how a prosecution branch has chosen to proceed or not proceed with a certain prosecution, and, ultimat ely, when politicians meet with these victims and honour these requests, they give them false hope. They basically turn their trauma, their pain, into some type of political prop. It creates an unfair expect- ation of the Attorney General's role, and politicians, quite frankly, are exploiting their misery. And there's also an issue about who gets to meet with politicians. Not all victims are treated equally, and we've seen this very recently in Manitoba.

We've seen that the Premier will meet with some victims but not others. * (14:40) I was contacted by an alleged victim of Peter Nygård, and she tells me that she's been trying to speak with the Premier and meet about her case for the past four years. He has refused. I've met with the family of Jordyn Reimer. They tell me that they've made eight written requests to meet with the Premier, and at–each and every one of the times, they were –received a–out-of-office sort of form reply. They didn't even get the courtesy of a response letter. But, the Premier has met some victims.

So it begs the question as to which victims the Premier finds worthy enough for his time and which aren't. And sadly, I think there's a political calculus to this, which is insulting to all victims' families. And it's also concerning that the Premier has been commenting on active court cases. The Premier issued a press release and made media comments celebrating the conviction in the Skibicki trial. [interjection] The Speaker: I would ask members who aren't recog- nized as speaking in the Chamber to please take their conversation somewhere else.

Hollering back and forth across the aisle is not solving anybody's problems, it's just making it impossible for the Speaker to hear what's being said. Mr. Wasyliw: So further commenting about what the Premier thinks is an adequate sentence for this offender. Again, this is entirely inappropriate and amounts to political inter ference. There yet could be appeals in relation to that case, and it sends a signal to everyone in the justice system. It ultimately under - mines the legitimacy and neutrality of justice system. There is a history of wrongful convictions in Manitoba.

The 89 recorded wrongful conviction cases in Canada since 1993, 12 Manitobans have been victims. That's 13 per cent of all wrongful convictions for a population of 3 per cent of the country. We are ground zero in Manitoba for wrongful convictions: Brian Anderson, Allan Woodhouse, Frank Ostrowski, James Driskell, David Milgaard, Thomas Sophonow, Kyle Unger, Andrew Rose, Cody Klyne, Richard Catcheway, Wilfred Truscott. Many of those cases, at their time, were high pro- file, and it certainly was open to politicians to pander and to give comment about what they thought should happen to those individuals.

We also see that this Premier has denigrated justice participants. We have seen the Premier go after criminal defence lawyers, attack them using ignorant stereo - types. He represented someone as an –making a pro- fessional decision, not a moral one, as somehow being problematic because they professionally act for some- body who's alleged to have done a horrible crime. This discredits all justice officials. It's guilt by association. It's demeaning and inappropriate. Then, of course, the Premier refused to apologize, which is certainly indicative of his worldview.

And not just an attack on justice officials, he attacked the rule of law. When you attack people in the justice system, you're basically going after the legitimacy of that justice system.

3132 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 2024 This is Donald Trump stuff that we see in the United States. And again, it sends a signal that this Premier (Mr. Kinew) is not a neutral arbiter of the justice system, that he wants to put his finger on the scales and that Manitobans can't get a fair trial. The other issue, of course, we have is that we have a Prosecution Service here. But it's increasingly becoming the call that there be in dependent review of cases. Now, they work very hard, they are underfunded, they are understaffed, there's a high burnout rate.

And instead of supporting their work, the Province of Manitoba attacks it and attacks the legitimacy of professional public prosecutions by saying that that we don't trust their pro fessional judgment and we're going to send out of province for another opinion. Law, at its very basic, is an opinion. Lawyers give you an opinion, and there will always be an opinion for every lawyer out there, maybe more than one. And if you ask enough lawyers, you will eventually get the opinion that you seek.

And you have this bi zarre scenario where the government of Manitoba is trying to look for opinions elsewhere to justify what essentially is a political decision. That is completely inappropriate, and it sets a precedent. Now any victim who doesn't like the pro- fessional opinion of Manitoba prosecutions will ask for an outside review, and it 'deletigi -legitimizes' the role of public prosecution, and it makes prosecution's decisions political decisions. The Attorney General cannot meet with victims for the purposes of lobbying and changing prosecution decisions.

So the criminal justice system is designed to be focused on establishing factual guilt. It is, you know, required to honour the presumption of innocence. Victims play a minor role in that system. Restorative justice, however, puts victims at the centre. They drive the process and they very much have a voice. If we want to increase victim voices in Manitoba Justice, we have to move to a restorative justice model. And this would avoid many of the problems that we see here today.

And quite frankly, the Premier and all those who are, you know, motivated to do this, please stay out of the justice system; let the professionals do their work. Thank you. ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Government House Leader): Two things, Honourable Speaker. Could you please canvass the House for leave to have a list of names included in Hansard after the min- isterial statement made by the honourable Minister of Health earlier today. And then, if you could please resume Committee of Supply.

The Speaker: Is there leave for the House to have a list of names included in Hansard after the ministerial statement made by the honourable Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care (MLA Asagwara) earlier today. Is there leave? [Agreed] And now we will resolve into Committee of Supply. The Deputy will take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) ROOM 254 ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, INVESTMENT, TRADE AND NATURAL RESOURCES * (14:50) The Chairperson (Rachelle Schott): Will the Com- mittee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Com mittee of Supply will now consider the Estimates of the De partment of Economic Dev elop- ment, Investment, Trade and Natural Resources. Does the honour able minister have an opening statement? [interjection] We will just pause for one moment, please. Hon. Jamie Moses (Minister of Economic Development, Investment, Trade and Natural Resources): I can refer to you as Chair? Perfect. Thank you, Chair. It's my great pleasure to be here on behalf of my department as the Minister of Economic Dev elop- ment, Investment, Trade and Natural Resources.

This is, I think, time well spent for our government to have the opportunity to not only review the expenses in the budget put forward in this year's budget, but also to, you know, be very trans parent and have an

October 29, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3133 opportunity to dialogue and have questions come from opposition members, from members of the Legislative Assembly. And thank the oppor tunity–I thank the members for being here from all sides and appreciate their time that we're going to spend to go through–over this over the next few hours. Our government is–has made some strong, sus - tainable and really great progress on growing our economy over the last year. We're committed to growing our economy as –Manitoba's advantage as a low-carbon leader and with a highly skilled work- force.

In our Budget 2024, investment–invests employ- ment and skilled training, which fosters economic development and economic recon ciliation, which creates good jobs for Manitobans. We are launching an ambitious economic dev - elopment strategy with input from the Premier's Busi- ness and Jobs Council that will benefit all Manitobans. Together, we are helping small busi nesses, medium businesses and large businesses grow, conditioned for new busi nesses to make th eir home and revitalize downtown Winnipeg.

To guide this, the formation of our economic strategy, the Premier's Busi ness and Jobs Council, will bring together diverse busi ness leaders from all regions, various sectors of the economy. This council will–is tasked with advising our govern ment on a provincial economic development plan that will grow the economy with good jobs for Manitobans.

And Budget 2024 also promotes economic recon- ciliation; invests $4 million in Indigenous economic development fund to support Indigenous busi ness owners, entrepreneurs and organizations, administered through the new Department of Indigenous Economic Development under Minister Bushie. Additionally, we've had some remarkable accom- plishments over the last year. Manitoba is supporting the Portage Place redevelopment into a campus for housing health- care services and other com munity supports.

The redevelopment of Portage Place, in part- nership with True North Real Estate Development and Southern Chiefs' Organi zation, will be among the largest private-sector investments ever undertaken in Winnipeg's downtown and will spur further down- town redevelopment. This initiative complements the SCO's redevelopment of Hudson's–the former Hudson's Bay building and– which is another major initiative which advances reconciliation and downtown revitalization.

Manitoba is also collaborating with the Manitoba Métis Federation and First Nations to develop natural resource management policy that ensures their rights and traditional knowledge are embedded into policy making and progress. * (15:00) To advance these important efforts, Manitoba has completed exploration projects and Crown Indigenous consultations, signed mineral development protocols, particularly with Northlands First Nation, funded and supported 10 First Nations to attend a Canadian central mining exploration conference.

Additionally, we've entered into an MOU with three Swan Valley region First Nations govern ments to extend the Louisiana-Pacific operating licence by five years and keep hundreds of jobs in the region. Under the agree- ment, the Louisiana-Pacific local First Nations and the Manitoba government will work together to create a 20-year forest management plan that meets the needs of all parties. We continue to build and invest. A $30- million investment to repair and upgrade the railroad at the Port of Churchill has been made, solidifying our position as a maritime province.

And we're investing in CentrePort Canada to help them develop new busi- ness opportunities as we work closely with national and international partners to explore potential inter - national investment and trade opportunities in Manitoba. This summer, we had also the first shipment of zinc concentrate that left Port of Churchill for Europe that showed to the world the port's potential and capabilities. Budget 2024 also increasing its investment in the development and implementation of a comprehensive strategy focused on renewed trade relationships and expanding trade relationships and our export capacity.

We–our government will continue and increase trade between Manitoba and the United States to spur economic gains that benefit all Manitobans. We are also very proud of our accomplishments in providing $500,000 in export support program ming for small- and medium -sized Manitoba companies loo king to explore, initiate or expand their export activities into new markets. Funding for MoveMobility: $1.3 million to support a 60,000-square-foot expansion at CentrePort, creating 55 new skilled jobs and protecting another 55 to remain here in Manitoba.

Providing a loan of $10.75 million to Sapphire Springs towards the $145- million develop- ment of a new arctic char facility in the RM of

3134 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 2024 Rockwood, which will provide more than 1,000 foot– full-time jobs. Announcing $200,000 to support efforts to identify opportunities to grow the clinical trial capacity of Manitoba's life sciences sector and ensure that Manitoba becomes a major international player in the life sciences sector. We are also partnering with storied companies like New Flyer Industries, the NFI Group. And we are delivering $10 million of investment supports to create over 400 jobs in the low-carbon sector.

These manufacturing jobs will help support the all-Canadian-build facility and finishing service of zero-emission buses for the Canadian market and esta- blishing a new heavy- equipment vehicle centre of excellence; $23 million is being made –is also being made in total, which is a $13 million of interest savings to the NFI Group for the all -Canadian-build facility. We additionally passed The Captured Carbon Storage Act to enable safe storage of captured carbon in our environment, which helps to grow our economy as well as lower emissions –net emissions from our province.

In terms of resource dev elopment and sus tain- ability, we are in progress of working on a real critical mineral strategy to become low -carbon leaders for generations to come, which creates good jobs, ensuring economic prosperity and reconciliation for Manitobans. Additionally, we–Manitoba has provided $3.3 million to 15 mineral dev elopment projects through the Manitoba Mineral Dev elopment Fund, helping drive economic growth, create good jobs and build resilient communities, particularly in northern Manitoba.

Manitoba govern ment is moving forward with silica sand extraction project in Hollow Water First Nation and solar glass manufacturing facility in Selkirk, which will help create good jobs and advance Manitoba as a leader in clean energy. We've also faced challenges , and when Imperial Oil shut down the pipeline unexpectedly, we worked closely and col laboratively with industry partners to ensure Manitobans had the fuel they needed when the pipeline repair was complete and safe in an environ - mentally responsible manner.

We also worked in partnership with First Nations and developed a consultation protocol that established mutually agreed-upon processes for Crown Indigenous consultation. Our commitment to collaborate will lead to more sustainable and mutually beneficial outcomes, improve the effectiveness of our resource manage- ment strategies and, ultimately, promote long -term growth and prosperity for all stakeholders. This year, we also hosted two fish forums for commercial fishers on Lake Winnipeg to hear directly from fishers and find solutions to ensure our fisheries will be–remain healthy for generations to come.

We are advancing survey methods and our col - lection of reliable survey data to help manage species across population–our province, particularly big game populations. This data is important for informing wild- life conservation and management decisions, including the decisions around conservation areas. This summer, we also released our first public Aquatic Invasive Species Preven tion and Response Plan and provided an increased $500,000 for the AIS program.

These are just some of the many initiatives our government has taken on this year to both grow our economy, work collaboratively with communities and ensure that we set Manitoba off in a very positive way well into the future. Thank you very much. The Chairperson: We thank the minister for those comments. A reminder that in Committee of Supply, we do not use last names, and we use con stituencies or portfolios. Does the critic from the official op position have an opening statement? Mr. Jeff Wharton (Red River North): How would you like to be referred to? Chair? The Chairperson: Yes. Chair. Mr. Wharton: Okay.

Thank you, Chair. Appreciate that. And I thank the minister for his opening comments as well. Just briefly, for the record, I'll introduce myself. Again, I'm the MLA for Red River North and the former Economic Develop ment minister in the PC government. It was great op portunity and a great privilege to serve Manitobans as Economic Develop- ment minister and certainly looking forward to a robust discussion today with the current minister. Again, I would like to highlight the fact for Manitobans that are listening today and watching us

October 29, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3135 live that this process has been delayed, and we've only been allotted approximately two hours today to work with the minister and the gov ernment to ensure that Manitobans are seeing a positive move forward in economic development on so many levels, which I'm looking forward to getting into in the very limited time that we have today. However, there's a lot to talk about and a lot of good areas that were started and a lot of areas that I see have been duplicated and moved forward, which we will discuss further in detail as we move forward.

Certainly, I'd also like to take the op portunity to thank the staff from the department, as well, and also thank my staff that are joining us here today. And with those short comments, I'd certainly like to get into questions. Thank you. The Chairperson: We thank the member. Under Manitoba practice, debate on the minister's salary is the last item considered for a de partment in the Committee of Supply. Accordingly, we shall now defer consideration of line item 10.1(

a) contained in resolution 10.1. At this time, we invite the minister's staff to join us at the table, and we ask that the minister introduce the staff in attendance. Please join us. Mr. Moses: I'm pleased to have an amazing team working alongside us here in the de partment.

So I'd like to introduce them. * (15:10) We've got Deputy Minister Dana Rudy; ADM Finance and A dministration, Melissa Ballantyne; ADM Workforce Development and Training, Michelle Wallace; ADM Conservation and W ildfire Service, Kristin Hayward; ADM I nvestment and Trade, Jana Schott; ADM Minerals, Petroleum and Geoscience, Jeff Kraynyk; executive director, strategic 'polishy' and initiatives, Darryl Villeneuve; director, Manitoba Fisheries, Erin Dunbar; a nd, of course, Chantel –my director of ministerial affairs, Chantel Bacon.

The Chairperson: According to our rule 78.16, during the consideration of departmental Estimates, questioning for each department shall proceed in a global manner, with questions put separately on all resolu tions once the official opposition critic indicates the questioning has concluded. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Wharton: Certainly I would like to take the opportunity to introduce Mat Preprost, as well, who's joining us today as our research and legislative assist- ant, joining us today here on the opposite side.

Quick–wanted to do a little bit of house cleaning, but I want to be quick because I know we're limited on time, so I just wanted to confirm with the minister that the organizational chart on page 21 is complete and up-to-date. Mr. Moses: Thank you for the oppor tunity, and I'll get to, you know, talking about the organi zational structure chart on page 21. But I just wanted to say that I'm also very excited to have the opportunity to speak today on behalf of the department. I think it's impor tant work that we have been undertaking and we have been doing.

I think that, you know, I'm very proud to be working with a team as robust and as ex perienced as this, who bring a wealth of knowledge to the table here. I think I'm eager to, you know, use and chat over the next couple of hours, and quite frankly I think I was eager to have this meeting earlier if we could have gotten to it.

I think that there was a bit of delay in the House in the spring with the 'unexplanned' wealth act, which I think caused a lot of these Estimates Commit- tee of Supply meetings to be pushed back further, and I think that if we had the opportunity to get–you know, get to these meetings sooner, we could've had a little bit more time to go through the nitty- gritty details, which I'm sure member opposite would have really appreciated. So looking forward to using the time we have, but, you know, I share the same sentiment, that we could have gotten to this sooner if we didn't have that delay from opposition.

In–to regards to the specific question regarding the organizational structure on page 21, the chart is accurate, and it is up-to-date. Mr. Wharton: Again, I'd like to thank the minister for those comments, and certainly I, too, will echo his comments on some of the best staff in this building are sitting in this room today, and that's not throwing any other staffer under the bus, that's just saying t hat I know I had the privilege of working with them all as well, and they are super people to have on your team, and you're very fortunate to have them.

3136 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 2024 And that'll lead into the next question: What political staff within your office do you currently have? The Chairperson: Just while we're waiting for the response, I just want to remind all members during the Committee of Supply that questions need to be put through the Chair, please. Mr. Moses: So I can update the member with respect to his question. And I think he fully understands, you know, at – being a former minister himself, the importance and the role of–the staff play, political staff, both political and departmental.

And I think he can appre ciate the–not only the divide of the role but the specific function that each role plays and how vital it can be to the suc cessful functioning of an office, both in provi ding the very detailed and very technical work that is, you know, highly regarded in–as the experts and expertise in our province, but also having the right lens with which to view that information. And also very much being connected to the people of Manitoba, the stakeholders who are feeling the impacts of any decisions, the people who are calling for change or calling for different supports in different regards.

And understanding how we, as gov- ernment, can be responsive to those needs and to those calls. And so I think it's im portant role the staff play, both in understanding how we can improve as govern- ment and how we can work within government systems in a proper and good way to make sure that we're listening and being responsive to those things. I think one of the things our government has prided itself on doing is being a listening government.

And so in that–to that end of being a listening govern- ment, we have certainly taken on the–taken on that responsibility of going out, reaching to com munities and hearing from folks and trying to best understand how we can work together, work in partnership, work collaboratively to find a suitable and a very appro - priate and a very positive way forward. So to that end, the political staff that are helping and working with our de partment, we have, as I mentioned earlier, director of min isterial affairs, Chantel Bacon. We have special assist ant to the minister, Carly Savoie.

We have executive assistant to the minister, Tino Dogo. And we have issues –assist- ant issues manager, Nicholas Harder. Mr. Wharton: Can the minister share how many of the four political staff currently under his purview are paid on the executive salary schedule? * (15:20) Mr. Moses: I just want to get a brief clarification: So you wanted to just confirm just the number of staff on the executive scale? Executive salary scale–is that the–that was the question, just to clarify? Mr. Wharton: Yes. Mr. Moses: Thank you for that clarification. So I just want to provide context to that as I get to the member's answer.

So there's one person of the staff–of this four staff, political staff who would be on the executive scale. That's the director, as I mentioned. Now, the director has impor tant function under our team. And the way that we operate with this director is that they act as a liaison between both minister and minister's office and the department. And it's a really important function because in many ways they have to really be enacting a lot of the direction that we want to go in. Additionally, they act as a liaison between the minister, as well, and central gov ernment.

And so ensuring that we have a person and people actually able to live out those words where we say, this is an all-government approach or an all-department approach. They do a lot of work cross de partmentally, central governmentally, within the de partment to liaison, to co-ordinate, facilitate, to ensure that, as we move forward in one direction, all parties are moving in the same direction.

You know, if you think about the analogy of, you know, rowing a boat, steering a canoe, you know that you have to have all of the–all of your paddles, all of your–going–rowing in the same direction, rowing at the same time in unison. And so as much as, you know, the minister sets directions, says, you know, we want to head down this path, in many ways it is the director who is the one who's making the calls live in the boat or, say, helping to 'direer' and steer everything into the right direction, right way.

You know, the director also provides very key political advice, and direct and help to lead other politi- cal staff as well, so it is a leadership and directoral and executive function that the director plays. Our director also supports the execution and the accomplishments of the minister's mandate. As the member opposite would be well aware that ministers do receive man - date letters from their Premier (Mr. Kinew) to help

October 29, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3137 steer and direct and focus a minister or department on a particular task. And so it is the role of the director to support the execution and the accomplishment of that mandate. And so, you know, I think understanding issues day to day goes as part of that issue and making sure that the team is well versed on the different political or departmental issues of the day, and informing and working across the de partments to work on and effectively triage and support the solution towards those issues on a daily basis.

And so we're very happy with the director we have in this de partment as we continue to function very effectively, and I look forward to being able to fulfill even more of our govern ment's priorities and our mandate objectives, with the support of our politi- cal, depart mental staff and move our province in a really positive way. Mr. Wharton: I thank the minister for that, I guess, understanding of what the director is doing; it sounds a little bit like a special assistant. But could the minister provide Manitobans today with the salary scale of all four of his political staff? Mr.

Moses: So you're asking around the salaries for the political positions. And so I want to first let the new member know that, because as–and as he would be aware that these political staff get appointed by order-in-council, so some of this information is avail- able publicly. So I'll make sure that I give ranges for the individual positions, but knowing that the, you know, that –and I think what would be best, just because it is already available, so the member could find out the specifics for each position.

For the four staff, I'll give a global range, and I know he asked specifically around the director, so I'll give the specific range of salary for that one. The global range for the four political staff range from $58,839 up to $156,562. And, specifically, as I know the member was interested, the range salary for the director is between 130–sorry, $130,198 and $156,562.

And so, as again, as I mentioned, with that role of the director, that is a role that is very key to the day-to-day functioning of the de partment, and it is very much one where we've had a success in under - standing the intersectionality between govern ment, centrally, departmental work, political considerations, community building and relationship strengthening. These are initiatives that I think are very central to a successful government operation and not just in terms of its day-to-day functioning, but as terms of meeting its broader understanding of its mandate demands and how we reach them collectively.

You know, I've –my ex perience in this role has been that many of our objectives, you know, require multiple de partments to be working in unison to accomplish those goals. And so I found that it takes someone with a lot of experience and lot of, you know, insight to effectively be able to navigate them. And I'm sure, you know, member opposite and Manitobans can understand the complexity it is with which to work within a government framework.

And so I really have found it being of value to have a person with that sort of drive and intellect, such as the director that work within our government. * (15:30) And beyond that, I think that they're provi ding a great service to the broader Manitoba as we continue to effectively implement our mandate items and move our province forward, knowing that we have really quality people ensuring our gov ernment is a well-functioning organization. Mr. Wharton: I thank the minister for that, again.

And again, just to be clear for the record, certainly I'm not here to question the qualifications of a director or any of the political staff or any other staff in the room, because I know they all have the appro priate job to do. I appreciate the salary range, and I will look up the O/Cs at my next available convenience. We'll have time because we're only here 'til 5 o'clock, so I'll be able to look it up later. But I appreciate the insight and the honesty of where we're at and the transparency that the minister is providing today.

I want to move on, and the minister had mentioned a little bit about the mandate letter. I want to talk a little bit about the minister's mandate letter dated October 19, 2023, and pretty much pore through a couple of the areas that the mandate letter hits on. But I just wanted to pick up and just put on the record, too, as well, a comment that the minister had made regarding the director –the executive director's responsibility. I guess some of the responsi bility, I'm assuming, is to help with the execution of the man - date.

That is partially, in my view, what a special assistant would do as a political staffer. I do believe, though, the responsibility to execute on the mandate letter would come from the staff and the team, from the DM's office down. So that's what we're familiar with, that's what I'm assuming is happening, that the staff are engaged one

3138 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 2024 hundred per cent, the –other than the political staff. And the bureaucrats are also engaged, because their tenure of being here and their ability to provide infor- mation not only to the political staff, but to the minister, is priceless. And I know the minister is probably learning that as a first- time minister as he goes forward. So I just put that on the record for future reference if he's looking for that. Back to the mandate letter. It says here clearly, the mandate says: grow our economy with good Manitoba jobs for Manitobans.

And part of that process here in the mandate letter is: Create Premier's (Mr. Kinew) business council, jobs council to bring together leaders from business, skilled trades, agricultural and Indigenous communities, labour and other sectors. Can the minister provide Manitobans online today with where and what is happening with the Premier's business council, how many meetings they've had, and I'll add some other questions in at a later date. Mr. Moses: So as you know, we've, you know, taken an initiative of straight–of, you know, standing up Premier's Business and Jobs Council, affectionately known as PB and J.

I think it's done an amazing job of bringing together some of the top busi ness leaders in our province and giving them an opportunity to not only give their sage advice–given all of their business ex perience and acumen–to government, but also to have those ideas and advice cross -pollinate with other leaders from other sectors and industries. I think that not only gives them an opportunity to better understand the network and the strength of the busi ness com munity in Manitoba, but also gives us really solid and strong advice to function in.

And so as we –you know, this is our mandate letter; we just got to work on it. We announced the – some of the individuals who are going to be sitting on that Premier's business jobs council, co- chairs Ash Modha, Kevin Rebeck. We know that there are some people with a lot of terrific business experience, folks like Bram Strain, Chad Friesen, Chuck Davidson – people from a variety of sectors. Got Cordella Friesen on there as well, David Chartrand–I've got real heavyweights from across the spectrum –Gerry Price is on there as well.

We've got folks like Loren Remillard, Mark Chipman are sitting on the Premier's Business and Jobs Council. This is just a few of the many people who are sitting on there. I will just give out a few other names for example for the member: folks like Ryan Kuffner, people like Paul Soubry. We also have folks like Jill Verwey, you know, from Keystone Agricultural Producers, Gustavo Zentner. These are just some people who are bringing in a, you know, a range of expertise in trade and busi- ness and invest ment.

And so since the com mittee kicked off in Council –kicked off in February, they– we have been sub –divided the group into five key areas. * (15:40) And so these subcommittees have been doing the work of building up some really strong policy ideas and sugges tions of how we can move our province forward. So I'll just tell the member the five committees.

I'm not going to go into the number of meetings because the subcommittees have been having numer- ous meetings, working together very–I've been getting the updates and it's been very engaging to see them work in a col laborative fashion, but to give him the highlight around some of the subcommittees that the Premier's Business and Jobs Council have been work- ing on and areas that they've been focusing on.

So the five subcommittees are around technology and AI, artificial intelligence; a clean energy economy; economic reconciliation; trade and trade spe cifically with the US; as well as one around skill development, workforce develop ment, immigration and skills alignment. So these are kind of the themes of some of our subcommittee work that the folks on the Premier's Business and Jobs Council have been doing over the course of the past many months.

It's been incred ible work and they'll continue to do that and continue t o provide really solid advice to the Premier, to myself, to our entire team and help inform us about the direction that they see from their experience that we're heading as a province. But also to help ensure that we're–there's a certain level of alignment with what we're both doing in the private sector as well in government.

And so we are very pleased with the progress that the Premier's Business and Jobs Council has made to date and we know that they will continue to be working very hard on behalf of Manitobans to ensure that we have not only a government that works for all of us, but that works for all of us to move in a really good direction into the future. Mr. Wharton: I thank the minister for that.

October 29, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3139 Does the minister sit on the committee and if so, what role does he play? Mr. Moses: So I thank the member for the question. So the Premier's Business and Jobs Council is very clearly set up to be comprised of a diverse set of leaders from all regions and sectors of our economy, and having it been tasked with developing economic strategy that strengthens Manitoba's diverse low-carbon economy, that also at the same time creates good jobs for Manitobans. This is some thing that's really impor tant to us.

And so as we considered how to have an effective Premier's Business and Jobs Council, we want them to provide their open and honest advice. So we take the role of being in that as receiving some of that advice. The committee is made up of voluntary com mu- nity leaders, and so we've asked them to go and do their work within their subcommittee, and we often check in by receiving some of that advice and receiving that from those com mittee members and the sub - committee members as they continue to do their work.

And so that's the role that we play, that I play, as well as having a strong connection with the folks that are working on ideas and advice that line up with priorities around our de partment and our mandate letter–keep strong connection with those parti cular works, and, broader, as a govern ment, we stay very well connected and are working to receive regular updates from the work of the Premier's Busi ness and Jobs Council. But again, this is a committee–council that is made up of voluntary community leaders who work to provide advice to us as ministers, as premier, as government.

And I think you can ap preciate that we want to find ways to have better alignment to maximize trade relationships with the United States and position Manitoba as a top investment destination. Like, when we think about how to execute this, many of those ideas don't only live within govern ment. Many of those ideas live in the minds of people from across the province.

So we want to have an ability to tap into some of those great ideas, and we've been fortunate enough to have some of the top leaders in our province come work and offer some great sug gestions and great advice to our government, and we're very excited and we thank them for their time.

We know these people–some of the busiest people in our province, running multi -million dollar corpor- ations, organizations–and we thank them, not only for putting their time into work in a positive way for our province, but we are so ap preciative of that, that we want to make sure that we're using their time wisely, that they feel like they're putting in a lot of value, and I think that's one of the reasons why they have con- tinued to have regular meetings –ongoing meetings– and continue to work with us. It's because they know that they're providing value to our entire team and our entire province.

And so I'm grateful for the work that they're doing. Any member of the Premier's Busi ness and Jobs Council who is watching or following up on this, I just want to say thank you to the work effort that you've been putting in. I appreciate your work effort, and I look forward to continuing to be able to work collaboratively and productively with you well into the future. Mr. Wharton: I thank the minister for that.

And I, too, are familiar with the ap pointments–a number of the appoint ments–and I will echo the comments of the minister that these are wonderful contributors to our economy, to our communities and to this great province of Manitoba. And I, too, would like to ensure that that is on the record. I'd also like to remind the minister that you are – he is the leader, and the minister takes respon sibility and should take responsi bility for this. It's in the mandate letter to create business council, jobs council, to bring together leaders in business.

I remind the minister that you are–the minister is the leader, and the minister should be more involved and engaged in the day- to-day. If they're meeting frequently, the minister probably should, on behalf of Manitobans, be there to ensure that the mandat e of moving Manitoba forward and growing our economy is met every day. I'll leave it at that. The next question I have for the minister is: He talked about US trade with the honourable Gary Doer. It's in the mandate letter. Can he please describe to me what that looks like and how many meetings has he had with the honourable Gary Doer? Mr.

Moses: Well, thank you very much for the question, and I like to–it's always interesting to hear how other people, you know, the advice from other people and I appreciate it, so I thank the member opposite.

3140 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 2024 * (15:50) I also want to know, I also want to thank him for pointing out that we've successfully completed some- thing on our mandate list. So that's something that was tasked to us and I can give that a solid checkmark; done. Create Premier's (Mr. Kinew) Business and Jobs Council and bring it together –bring together leaders from businesses, skilled trades, agriculture, Indigenous communities, labour and other sectors. Mandate-letter item tasked to me; mandate -letter item checked; success.

So I'm thank the member opposite for pointing out the suc cessful job we've been doing with com - pleting mandate-letter items. I think that's terrific that even–we're getting praise not only from Manitobans, not only from business community, but from member opposite for congratulating us on a job well done.

Forming the Premier's Busi ness and Jobs Council; having business leaders give us sage advice; give us the advice that's going to move our province forward– I think it's actually really rewarding to hear this advice and hear this congratulations from member opposite, particularly because it's some thing that they never had. Former minister didn't have this sort of busi ness or jobs council to provide him advice.

I'm very fortunate to–and thankful for those members of the Premier's Business and Jobs Council for giving us that quality– the high quality advice that we –that we're lucky enough and fortunate enough to be receiving. So I'm very grateful for that and I also, again, appre ciate the member opposite for noting that we've completed a mandate-letter item and congratulating us on that completion. Check; job well done. Okay, but you know, we're not–job is not all well done yet, because we're continuing to get that advice, continuing to be able to listen to folks. Again, we're a listening government.

We're a government that works collaboratively with community, with business partners, with people, and we continue to find ways to move our province forward in a really positive direction. We're going to work col laboratively with this folks into the future, so we thank you for that and we'll work hard to see that we implement some of those great ideas and make our province stronger.

Now, to the specific question the member had when it comes to US trade and working with former premier, honourable Gary Doer, and former ambassador Doer, I think we've–I've had, you know, great conver- sations with minister Doer, in specifics with US trade. And this is another oppor tunity for us to –for me to highlight the great trip we had down to Washington to do this specific work of helping to put Manitoba back on the map when it comes to dealing and building stronger relationships with our largest trading partner, the United States of America.

Now, not sure if the former minister, the member, has had the pleasure of meeting former premier Doer– An Honourable Member: Long before you did. Mr. Moses: Wonderful. I'm glad to hear and understand that he has, and I'm glad to know that he has–had such a positive impact on the member that he is, you know, ensuring that–I also seek the advice of former premier and former ambassador Doer. And I've gotten to know him and understand what he sees as some of the priorities for Manitoba when it comes to building a strong relationship with our largest trader partner.

So, on that trip, we had an–a wonderful opportun- ity to connect with people in the business community; people in governmental, in labour, involved in trade. And I think that was noted as being a success–widely noted as being a suc cessful trip on be half of Manitobans. And so, we continue to work with former premier Doer in advancing our under standing and receiving his advice around strengthening relation- ships and trade with the United States of America. And I think that's going to be true regardless of any results of the upcoming US election.

We are looking for strengthening partners with anyone on both sides of the aisle, because we know that our gov- ernment is firmly focused on working on the best interests of Manitobans. Regardless of what happens, the US people will decide on how they see their federal gov ernment go, and their govern ment will work in–you know, for the next four years, will make that decision coming up next week. Manitobans, they want a government that's working for them. That's what we're going to be doing.

We're going to be building good relationships with United States on both sides of the aisle and making sure we put a good foot forward for Manitoba's trade relation- ships with United States. Mr. Wharton: Certainly, I must have struck a nerve with the minister because job is not complete when it comes to the Premier's Business and Jobs Council. He knows that because he's refused to provide Manitobans today with how many meetings they've had, the dates of those meetings and perhaps even the minutes of those minutes on how he's saying that he's

October 29, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3141 moved Manitoba forward and job done, check the box. I highly doubt it. And I think Manitobans listening and watching online today agree that job is not done. There's certainly more work to do and, as the official opposition, we will ensure that we hold the minister and the government to account. I will jump into my next question about– on the mandate letter, which is not done, and minister can certainly provide us with how he expects to create 10,000 new skilled trades jobs over the next eight years. * (16:00) Mr.

Moses: Now I thank the minister –sorry, the member opposite for, you know, for his comments in his last question and I think it's a good opportunity for us to, you know, look at the, you know, the mandate letter. Obviously, he's going down through some of his items and so, you know, yes, we do conti nue to grow an economy with good jobs, so I think we're continuing to work on that. Premier's Business and Jobs Council, as we just mentioned, that's something that we have started already. We have brought that together and we are continuing to work on that.

So that is well in progress and some really great work is coming out of there. Obviously, expand our clean energy economy and critical mineral strategy. I know the critical mineral strategy is being worked on right now, diligently and it's a very important priority for us, parti cularly in northern Manitoba and Indigenous –with Indig enous communities and inclusion as well. We talked about as the member asked previously around the advisor on US –Canada-US trade and we have been already working with Gary Doer, former premier and former ambassador Doer.

And, you know, we've certainly had a chance to have many conversa- tions around important US trading partner relationship and the trip–successful trip to Washington. So I think, you know, the member opposite's very right to look at our mandate letter and see where we've done. And I think on those fronts you can see that there is already very sig nificant progress and very tangible results that have been already on display. Now the next item I can see he's obviously talking about: the 10,000 new jobs in the skilled trades over the next eight years that the member is referring to.

And so, we continue to work on that priority as well as all of our other priorities. You know, and we know –understand that that is going to be–that goal is going to happen as a result of strategic investments that is made in economic develop- ment projects in the province. It's going to be done in combination with investing in Apprenticeship Manitoba, ensuring that we're very modern on our apprenticeship and meeting the needs of industry, of workers and of Manitobans and that we are making Manitoba an affordable and attractive place to live.

And I think those things in combination are going to be part of our approach to ensuring that we deliver on that goal of 10,000 new skilled trades. And I'll–a few reasons. We know the economic development projects are going to be a key part of the driver. Having an ability for busi nesses to grow, expand and have their –you know, sink their feet in and their footprints into Manitoba's economy is going to be really impactful for strengthening the economic opportunity. And so some of the projects that we've already highlighted have created a real number of jobs here in Manitoba.

Things like the NFI Group announce ment we had last week is going to create over 200, 250 new jobs directly with NFI Group. That means that's more Manitobans hard at work but also means that there's going to be a signi ficant number of spill -off effects– impacts in growing NFI Group suppliers. And that's going to mean a real increase into our economy in Manitoba. We can also talk about MoveMobility, another com- pany that our province invested in to not only keep them here in Manitoba but for–allow them to expand and grow in our province.

And I can also think about our invest ment in Sapphire Springs fishery to grow over 100 new jobs in the RM of Rockwood. And so these are some of our economic develop- ments that are going to help us get to creating those new skilled trade jobs. In addition, we know that we have to keep our province competitive and affordable. So our things like helping to lower the gas tax and keeping afford- ability low helps to keep Manitoba more competitive for workers to see Manitoba as their home and not flee to other provinces, as we saw previously under the former government.

And so we're trying to make some of these signi- ficant steps to make life more attractive here, to make strong investments, to invest in our apprentice ships and our skilled trades directly.

3142 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 2024 This past budget–this budget invested an additional $1.5 million in Ap prenticeship Manitoba. These are real dollars that are going to impact the opportunities for apprentices to get into the skilled trades and go through training process. And so these all combined are going to work together to help us reach that target of increasing the skilled trades in Manitoba. Mr.

Wharton: I will just close this part of the Estimates on Economic Development with some comments, and then I'm going to cede the floor to my colleague to ask the minister on –some questions regarding natural resources. So just on commenting further for the record and for Manitobans on some of the comments the minister had just made on the record, he was talking about how they feel that they're going to create 10,000 jobs. And he cited a number of areas already–a number of busi- nesses already working in Manitoba that were started by the former PC government.

I'll remind the minister that Sapphire Springs was announced in 2022. I'll also remind the minister that True North and the partnership with Southern Chiefs' was announced in 2023, and what a great project that'll be. And I concede to the fact that I'm happy that the current govern ment is moving forward with that very important project for downtown Winnipeg, creating a number of opportunities for all demographs and all concerned in the downtown to ensure that we make downtown Winnipeg safer. He talked about–the minister also talked about ap- prenticeship.

And, again, I'll close with this because I want to make sure that my colleague has a few minutes with the short time that we've been provided for Estimates here today on a very important file. When we talk about ap prenticeship and the gov- ernment moving from a two -to-one to a one -to-one ratio, if the minister feels that the one -to-one ratio is going to create 10,000 jobs or a portion of those 10,000 jobs, then he's sadly mistaken. Because ce r- tainly moving from two-to-one to one-to-one will not do that.

It will not grow the economy, and it'll provide less work and less opportunity for young Manitobans coming out of post-secondary that are looking to grow in–particularly in the private sec tor, which is the engine of Manitoba. So with those comments, Chairperson, I will turn the floor over to my colleague, the MLA for Swan River. Thank you. * (16:10) The Chairperson: The Hon ourable Minister will have a chance to respond before anyone else will be recognized. Thank you. Mr.

Moses: So I think, you know, to the minister's comment earlier in his last question around, you know, the things that they had started or finished or not, I think Manitobans are very squarely focused on getting stuff done. They want a govern ment that's going to work for them. So I'm not going to get into the game of who started what project, who finished. It's not about us taking the credit. It's about us working for Manitobans.

And so I want Manitobans to know you have a government that is now working squarely with you in mind, that is going to be working on behalf of you, and so we're very much excited to be continuing to work on that. When it comes to the apprenticeship question that the member opposite had around the ratio change, we're very happy to have been working, and now implementing, the one-to-one ratio restoration. I think for us this is a very simple reason: We want to make sure that we have very safe working standards for apprentices, and we want to have very high- quality education with that focused one -on-one approach.

Because that's our priority, we're going to work on that. We also know that in this world where we've been hearing a lot from, you know, federal gov ernments around–you know, federal leaders around the productivity, and there's been questions around productivity. In my mind, like when we think about that and we think of our productivity, it's important for us to think about how do we as a province influence that. And I think it's important to think about safety as a way, and high- quality training as a way for us to increase productivity. I know that when folks have safe work environments, they're very focused.

When they have high-quality training, they're very efficient. And so, when we look at improving and increasing our productivity as a province, we look at supporting workers to be able to do that, and that's our met

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	43-1-79b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	43rd 1st hansardpdf 79b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	cd46fcbc60e84f58a01b0fbf064b40de1b860a61

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).