Manitoba Hansard — 27 April 2017 (Sitting 46B, 41st Legislature, 2nd Session)

41-2-46b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session – Forty-First Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXX No. 46B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, April 27, 2017 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-First Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP BINDLE, Kelly Thompson PC CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC CURRY, Nic Kildonan PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FLETCHER, Steven, Hon. Assiniboia PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Clifford Emerson PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake PC JOHNSTON, Scott St. James PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLASSEN, Judy Kewatinook Lib. LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Burrows Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MAYER, Colleen St. Vital PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew, Hon.

Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REYES, Jon St. Norbert PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples Ind. SCHULER, Ron, Hon. St. Paul PC SELINGER, Greg St. Boniface NDP SMITH, Andrew Southdale PC SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WHARTON, Jeff Gimli PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian, Hon.

Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC YAKIMOSKI, Blair Transcona PC Vacant Point Douglas

1675 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, April 27, 2017 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Please be seated. The honourable Official Opposition House Leader? Point of Order Mr. Jim Maloway (Official Opposition House Leader): On a point of order. Madam Speaker, yesterday in question period during a question by the member for Fort Garry-Riverview (Mr. Allum) to the Premier, the member for Fort Whyte (Mr. Pallister), the Premier appeared to quote from two letters he received from Manitobans. When asked to table the letters, he tabled the second letter from which he had quoted.

Pursuant to rule 40(5), I request that the Premier table the first letter from which he quoted during the exchange with the member for Fort Garry-Riverview in yesterday's question period. Hon. Andrew Micklefield (Government House Leader): I believe the matter was settled between yourself and the First Minister on that occasion. I don't believe there's any point of order. No rule that was violated was cited and I believe the matter is settled, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: I thank all membe rs for their advice.

I will take the matter under advisement to pursue Hansard and consult the procedural authorities, and I will report back to the House. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Madam Speaker: Introduction of bills? Committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance ): Madam Speaker, I rise today to table the Manitoba Finance Supplementary Information for Legislative Review, 2017- 2018 Departmental Expenditure Estimates. Hon.

Eileen Clarke (Minister of Indigenous and Municipal Relations ): Madam Speaker, I am pleased to table the Supplementary Information for Legislative Review for Manitoba Indigenous and Municipal Relations for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2018. Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage): Madam Speaker, I rise today to table the Manitoba Sport, Culture and Heritage Supplementary Information for Legislative Review, 2017-18 Departmental Expenditure Estimates. Madam Speaker: Any further tablings? MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS National Day of Mourning Hon.

Cliff Cullen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade): I have a statement for the House. Madam Speaker: The required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with rule 26(2). Would the honourable minister please proceed with his statement. Mr. Cullen : I rise today to recognize the National Day of Mourning on April 28th and to commemorate all the Manitoba workers who were killed, injured or disabled on the job in 2016. Sadly, Madam Speaker, our province lost 24 men and women to acute hazards and occupational illnesses in 2016.

This number represents an immense loss to our families, our communities, our workplaces and to our province. Manitoba's workforce is a key component of our province's success and everyone deserves to be safe in the workplace. This is why it is so important to ensure that our province's workforce is safe and healthy at work. One way to make Manitoba safer will be to continue to talk to the young people in our lives and share with them the message of safe work and prevention. Compliance with workplace safety legislation is an important part of this effort, as is the broader community of safety organizations.

I encourage all Manitobans to make workplace safety and health a priority. As a government we remain committed to improving occupational health and safety to help prevent workplace injuries and illness in Manitoba.

1676 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2017 I welcome all Manitobans to attend one of the many ceremonies that will be taking place across th e province tomorrow to commemorate these fallen workers. Madam Speaker, following other members' statements, I am seeking leave for a moment of silence. Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Tomorrow, April 28th, is the Day of Mourning, a day that commemorates all those workers who have died, suffered injury or illness simply by going to work. Every worker has the right to come home safe at the end of the shift.

Unfortunately, we know that all too often thi s isn't the case. In 2016, in Manitoba, 25 workers died due to workplace -related injury and illness. Even one preventable workplace injury or death is one too many and they are preventable. The Day of Mourning serves as a reminder that workplace safety is something we should never take for granted. Thanks to all the hard work of unions and governments that cared, significant process has – progress has been made over the years to protect workers. However, we all need to remain vigilant and make sure strong workplace-safety laws are in place.

Blindly cutting safety regulations in the name of reducing red tape will put Manitoba workers in danger. These laws have been written in the blood of workers; a ny red uction in these laws or in the inspectors who enforce them will fail to protect workers. It is important that all workers know they have the right to refuse unsafe work without the fear of penalty. We need to educate our new and most vulnerable workers so they know they have rights in the workplace.

Tomorrow, memorial services are being held across the province in rec ognition of the Day of Mourning and to honour those who have died or become sick or injured from workplace -related injuries or illness. I would encourage all members to attend and take a moment to remember those workers. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Madam Speaker, I ask for leave to speak in response to the ministerial statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] Ms. Lamoureux: Every worker has the right to return home safe and sound at the end of the day.

According to the Workers Compensation Board, in 2015 we lost 852 Canadians to workplace injuries. Each death in the workplace impacts families, friends, co-workers and loved ones whose lives will forever be changed. Most of the members in the H ouse today may remember a story my colleague from Kewatinook shared with us , just a few weeks ago , of her cousin who died in a workplace accident. This heartbreaking story is one that hundreds of Manitobans have experienced through both accidents and occupational hazards.

Today our thoughts are with those who have been affected, whether directly or indirectly, through workplace injuries. We will continue working to ensure that safe workplaces is an ongoing, proactive strategy. Thank you. Madam Speaker: Members statements. The–pardon me. There was a request for leave to recognize a moment of silence. Is there leave? [Agreed] Please rise. A moment of silence was observed. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Bag it Forward Recycling Program Mr.

Andrew Smith (Southdale): I rise in the Legislature today to recognize the students of École Van Belleghem and their participation in Winnipeg Harvest's Bag it Forward program. Every year, Winnipeg Harvest goes through approximately 1 million plastic bags. In response to that, Bag it Forward was created to give Manitobans more options on how they can reduce, reuse and recycle the plastic bags already in their homes. This program encourages consumers all over Manitoba to drop off their plastic bags at Winnipeg Harvest or their local food bank so they can be reused to create food kits.

The students of École Van Belleghem took notice of this and wanted to assist in this noble endeavour. Over a two-and-a-half-week period , the

April 27, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1677 students collected over 30,000 used plastic bags from our community of Southdale and presented them to Winnipeg Harvest at their media event on Tuesday, April 18th. Student Samantha Smith acted as a spokesperson for her school as she spoke to local media about what they had achieved. As a result of their efforts, there is now a permanent recycling presence at the school by means of an official used - plastic-bag recycling receptacle. With us here today are some of the students, parents and school staff who spearheaded and participated in this program.

Proudly representing École Van Belleghem, please welcome student Samantha Smith; her father, Darrell Smith; her mother, Heather McDonald; president of the parent advisory council, Pamela Kolochuk and Vice-Principal Louise DeClercq. * (13:40) I am proud to have the m with us here in the gallery as their actions will not only make a difference in our community but will also serve as an example for everyone across our great province. Please join me today in recognizing the students of École Van Belleghem and everyone who participated and organized this important and successful initiative. Daffodil Day Mr.

Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): Madam Speaker, every three minutes, another Canadian is faced with the battle to fight cancer. This year an estimated 6,800 people in Manitoba will be diagnosed with cancer ; that's approximately 19 per day. April 27th is Daffodil Day, a day to show solidarity and stand with those who have been impacted by cancer, and those currently battling this terrible disease. The daffodil is a symbol of strength and courage in the fight against cancer. There are many ways to show support for those dealing with cancer. One way I chose to get involved was Relay For Life, Madam Speaker.

Relay For Life is a fundraiser for the Canadian Cancer Soc iety, whose mission is the eradication of cancer and the enhancement of the quality of life of people living with cancer. The first Relay For Life event in Canada was held in 1999 and raised $85,000. Relay For Life has raised over $500 million for the Ca nadian Cancer Society. Last year, in Canada, Relay for Life events collectively gathered over $28 million to support cancer research and those living with cancer, along with their families and caregivers.

This year, in my constituency of Lac du Bonnet, I am honoured to be involved as co-chair, along with my friend Sue Tribula, bringing Relay for Life this year to the town of Beausejour. With over 20 relay or associated relay events across our great province, all Manitobans can get involved with this great event. I encourage all honourable members, especially today, on Daffodil Day, to reach out to those impacted by cancer, as well as their families, and see how you can help in the fight against this terrible illness. To those fighting cancer, we stand with you, by your side, through this battle.

Always know that your courage and strength is an inspiration to all Manitobans, not only on Daffodil Day, Madam Speaker, but always. Thank you. Mental Health Care Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Madam Speaker, advocates for mental health investments are spreading their message loud and clear: we are sick of waiting. With increased awareness of mental health issues in our communities, people are speaking out more and more and getting louder and louder about the needs for adequate mental health care.

Yet, they are still waiting for accessible psychological services, they are still waiting for community -based services, they are still waiting for basic housing supports. In fact, they are still waiting for a comprehensive plan from this government. They are sick of waiting and are continuing to fight to see improvements in these areas. In honour of next week's Mental Health Week, we stand with them in encouraging Manitobans to talk, to reflect and to engage with each other about the impacts of mental illness and what we can do to improve mental health in our province.

Speaking out about mental health issues not only empowers those who often feel alone, it builds community, it builds support and it builds a united response in pursuit of mental health well-being. It's important for us to acknowledge the profound difficulty of this undertaking. People are fighting against the stigma that is telling them that

1678 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2017 they will be judged to help others who may be suffering. Fa mily members are standing up and rising above the consuming grief of losing a loved one to suicide to help educate the public. People are struggling to remove the weight that mental illness bears on them to have their voices heard. Because of these difficulties, we have had an even greater–we have an even greater responsibility as MLAs to listen to those who are speaking out about these issues and to lend those voice –lend our voices to those who are unheard.

It is time for us to take action in making menta l health a priority, so that people can stop waiting and start to see improvements that we need to see in mental health care in Manitoba. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Palliative Manitoba Fundraiser Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Madam Speaker, this morning myself, along with my colleagues from River Heights, Radisson and Rossmere, attended a fundraiser hosted by Palliative Manitoba. To begin, it's important to understand that Palliative Manitoba's main goal is to improve life until it ends.

This is a reso urce that provides programs, services, education and information that is used by individuals, families and caregivers. The fundraiser this morning was in celebration of life. Charlie Spiring was the guest speaker. He is a successful entrepreneur from Winnipeg who shared a personal story of how palliative care was extremely helpful for his brother, who was battling cancer. Through his story, we were reminded that we need to live life to our fu ll potential.

We were reminded of the importance to keep those who we care about close to us, and that it's imperative to look on the bright side, even when it's not always that easy. I also had the opportunity to meet with the new executive director of Palliative Manitoba, Jennifer Gurke. Jennifer praised palliative care here in Winnipeg and further shared her thoughts of a new initiative under way right now in St. Theresa Point. Madam Speaker, life comes at us all a little differently. Having resource s and tools in place is what helps us all through it.

Palliative Manitoba continues to be a momentous resource to Manitobans, and I would like to thank Palliative Manitoba and all involved for their perseverance in a difficult line of work. You are making a difference. Charlie ended his speech this morning with a quote that I would like to share with the House. Tom Preston-Werner once said: When I'm old and dying, I plan to look back on my life and say, wow, that was an adventure, not wow, I sure felt safe. In closing, I would like to invite everyone to Palliative Manitoba's next event on May 6th at Shaw Park, a Hike for Hospice.

You can find out more details on their website at palliativemanitoba.ca. Thank you. Perry Bulbuck Mr. Doyle Piwniuk (Arthur-Virden): Madam Speaker, it's great –with great sadness and heavy heart that I acknowledge the passing of a great friend who was like a brother: Mr. Perry Bulbuck. Perry passed away this January at the age of 57. Perry received his life calling at a ver y young age due to a sudden passing of his mother. This influenced him wanting to dedicate his own life to serve and support others who experience death.

Perry began his working life at the Children's Aid Society in Brandon, where he found his passion for working with people. He loved encouraging, guiding, interacting with people of all ages. This experience influenced his decision to become involved with funeral services. In 1981, Perry acquired his first funeral home and became the director of Braendle- Bruce Funeral Service in Russell, Manitoba. Perry spent 35 years running Braendle -Bruce and employing many people of Manitoba and Saskatchewan.

Perry handled his business like he handled life: with passion, determination, precision, attention to detail, care and accuracy. My own family experienced his own compassionate care first -hand when I lost my father. Perry was also community minded, supporting different initiatives, including the homecoming of Olympic gold medallist Jon Montgomery and contributing to local, regional and provincial board positions. He took great interest in politics. Perry was not only a great supporter of my campaign, he was a great supporter of the Pallister government and all of the Filmon governments.

Perry was an incredible b usinessman who never forgot his fellow man, those less fortunate, and was a soft–had a very soft spot for children. A child at heart, he took great joy in spending time with children. With my own kids, I have never known anyone who could make him laugh–the m laugh as

April 27, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1679 much as Perry. Unfortunately, it wasn't –usually on my own expense. Madam Speaker, members of Perry's family, including his father, Alec; his four sisters, Gia, Bev, Cindy and Glenda; his brother -in-law, Murray; and his niece, Katarina; and his business partner, David, are here today in the public gallery. Let us all stand and applaud Perry for his contribution to this great province of Manitoba. Madam Speaker, I ask to leave to have the names of the guests here today to be included in Hansard.

Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to include the guests' names in Hansard? [Agreed] Friends and family of Perry Bulbuck: Alec Bulbuck, Bev Bulbuck, Gia Davidson, David Klassen, Mervin Magnowski, Cindy St. Hilaire, Glenda Zimmer, Katarina Zimmer, Murray Zimmer. Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to oral questions, we have some further guests in the public gallery.

From the Steinbach Regional Secondary School we have 37 grade 9 students under the direction of Scott Reimer and Katherine Andres, and this group is located in the constituenc y of the honourable member for Health, Seniors and Active Living. Also seated in the public gallery, from Louis Riel Arts and Technology Centre, 18 students under the direction of Jeremie Kuyp ers, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for St. Boniface (Mr. Selinger). * (13:50) On behalf of all of the members here, we welcome you to the Manitoba Legislature.

ORAL QUESTIONS Changes to Health Services Impact on Patient Care Ms. Flor Marcelino (Leader of the Official Opposition): We are hearing from many Manitobans who are deeply concerned about the chaos this government is causing in the health- care system. They tell us that the Premier's excuses simply don't hold water and that the government should focus on the services that ordinary Manitobans rely on. They tell us that this government is only focused on the bottom line, and by taking a 20 per cent pay raise while imposing pain on everyone else the Premier shows he is simply out of touch.

Will the Premier listen to Manitobans and our front-line workers and just, this once, put patient care before the bottom line? Will he cancel his plans for cuts to health-care services and listen to Manitobans? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): First of all, Madam Speaker, as you well know and all members of the House should know, the assertions of the member are false in virtually every category, certainly on the issue of pay increases when the previous government paid themselves over $1 million of additional salary while breaking the law in respect of the balanced budget act.

In respect of health care, Madam Speaker, Winnipeg's ER wait times are the worst in the country. This is a report from CBC News last year. It says that the 90th percentile wait times for WRHA hospitals ranked last in the country. It ranks the hospitals which have the longest wait times in the country of Canada: first, Concordia Hospital had an average of seven hours; St. Boniface General Hospital, second, 6.9 hours; Victoria General Hospital, third at 6.4 hours; Grace Hospital was ranked fifth.

So four out of the top five in Canada on wait times, and the members opposite ought not to argue for the status quo; it isn't good enough. Madam Speaker: The honourable interim Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Ms. Marcelino: I have heard from one concerned citizen who tells me how deeply concerned she is with the government's cuts to front -line health care and the impact this will have on patient care.

She tells me that the government has failed to explain how it will address the increased demand at surviving hospitals, and the government should be focused on investments for a sustainable health- care system rather than their current strategy of cuts. I wish to table the letter. Madam Speaker, I ask the Premier: Why won't he l isten to Manitobans? Why won't he cancel his plans and listen to Manitobans? Mr. Pallister: Madam Speaker, the members opposite failed to listen to Manitobans repeatedly throughout their diminishing days in government and now in opposition fail to do the same.

They failed to listen to health -care experts who made recommendations to them while in government that would've led to improvements in the system and,

1680 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2017 more importantly, of course, as a result of that lack of courage on their part to take action–concr ete action–they failed Manitobans in the process. Here is another copy of a news story which respects the repor ts that came from the Canadian institute of health information; it's title: Winnipeg Remains Dead Last for ER Wait Times. And, again it points out that four of the top longest waits for emergency care in Canada are here in the city of Winnipeg in four of our leading hospitals. Now, this is a challenge, Madam Speaker.

We know that change is a difficult thing for all of us, but, nonetheless, when the situation is as dire as it has remained, it must change, and it will change for the better with this government. Madam Speaker: The honourable interim Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Ms. Marcelino: Hundreds of front -line workers were on the steps of the Legislature yesterday to tell the Premier and the Health Minister: care, not cuts. The front -line workers do not feel listened to and they are deeply concerned about the chaos the Premier is causing in our health-care system.

I learned yesterday from one concerned nurse who asks: Has anyone in government sat down with the front-line workers and talked to them face to face and asked them for suggestions and help? This – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Marcelino: –question comes from the same nurse whose letter the Premier tabled yesterday. Madam Speaker, why isn't the Premier listening to our front-line workers? Mr. Pallister: The member makes a good point in one respect of her

preamble, Madam Speaker, and that is the importance of listening. And so we have been listening, and, in fact, we've listened to–in the process of consultation around our action plan in terms of the WRHA's attempts to reduce wait times, something the previous government–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –failed to address, Madam Speaker. We have heard from and listened to literally thousands of Manitobans and as in many cases, of course, these are front-line health-care workers. One thing we're doing as a result of that listening is trimming at the top of the organization.

The WRHA itself will reduce its management staff by 15 per cent, Madam Speaker, because front -line workers told us it was just too thick up there, too thick for them to be heard. Under the previous government, which built up and fattened up the top of the organization mightily, wait times grew longer and more money was thrown at the system and the system kept failing Manitobans, and our goal is, of course, to make sure the system delivers the servi ces Manitobans want and deserve. Changes to Health Services Impact on Patient Care Mr.

Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Madam Speaker, at his first opportunity this Premier (Mr. Pallister) deliberately attacked the very front -line services that he vowed to protect. He made the biggest cuts to our health-care system in a generation, and when asked how this could possibly improve patient care, he said, just trust me. Well, why should Manitobans trust him when, from the start, he wouldn't come clean about his cost savings being the real reason behind his cuts?

He's picking and choosing the –only the parts of the reports that fit his narrative while ignoring others, and he refuses to even tell us what some reports have recommended. Oh, and he refuses to listen t o front-line workers. Why should an y Manitoban trust this Premier with their family's health? Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living ): Madam Speaker, David Peachey, the consultant who the NDP didn't tender out but actually hand- picked from consultants right across North America, indicated that it was clear that Winnipeg, compared to other cities that are larger than Winnipeg –Vancouver, Calgary, Ottawa– has more emergency rooms, and having more emergency rooms that spread th e resources so thin that you don't get service in an appropriate time, doesn't make sense.

That's why their consultant, which they hand- picked, put forward a plan to better the emergency -care service in Manitoba by concentrating those resources and getting people faster care. That's what we're going to do. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a supplementary question. Mr. Wiebe: Well, Madam Speaker, if the minister would take the time to read past page 62, he'd know that Dr. Peachey never recommended abandoning

April 27, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1681 entire communities in Winnipeg. In fact, the Peachey report identifies a number of priorities for any government that wa nts to improve our health -care system. It recommends greater collaboration, more home-care services, specific services for indigenous patients, more supports for health- care and addictions, for mental health. Other than lip service, there is no evidence th at this government will have any of those supports in place before our ERs close.

Will the minister–Health Minister admit that his cuts-first-make-up-reasons-later scheme is going to hurt patient care in Winnipeg? Mr. Goertzen : Madam Speaker, I regret th at the member clearly didn't read the report or listen to the announcement that the WRHA made. If he did, he would have gotten some of the questions –or some of the answers to the questions he just asked. In fact, when it comes to home care, the WRHA announced there would be an enhanced home -care program so that 1,200 individuals annually would move more quickly out of the hospital into enhanced home care in their homes and their community.

Had he listened to the announcement, he would have heard that the Victoria hospital will have more mental health resources. Those are things he clearly doesn't support because he voted against them. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a final supplementary. * (14:00) Mr. Wiebe: Madam Speaker, Dr. Peach ey states clearly in his report that his mandate did not include recommendations on restructuring facilities. In fact, Dr.

Peachey recommends clearly that those hospitals that lose their emergency wards should have an urgent-care centre in its place and that the communities should not be left in the lurch. Instead, this minister made a purely political decision to cut services and the buck stops with him. Madam Speaker, the Health Minister has to admit today that he's using the Peachey report as a smokescreen when it suits him for his own agenda of cuts, and will he immediately call a halt to this poorly sought-out scheme? Mr. Goertzen : Madam Speaker, yelling loudly doesn't make the member right.

If he were to read the report he would clearly see that Dr . Peachey laid out exactly how he thought the health- care system in Winnipeg should be designed, and we followed exactly the plan that he put out in terms of how the health-care system in Winnipeg should be designed. The hand- picked consultant by the NDP, that they selected on their own –didn't even tender out the contract. In fact, Dr. Peachey believed so much in what we were doing and that we'd followed so closely his recommendations, he came to the announcement and was present to the announcement and went on media and defended it.

So, clearly, the member doesn’t know what he's talking about again. Post-Secondary Institutions Status of Operating Grants Mr. Wab Kinew (Fort Rouge): In the Estimates process, the Minister of Education confirmed that he's frozen operating grants for every post-secondary institution in Manitoba except for Red River College and University College of the North; there he cut their operating grants. So th is means that all colleges and universities in our province, that are helping young people prepare for the jobs of the future, are getting zero.

This, at a time that 'technoloty'–technology change is accelerating, costs are increasing and we want more and more young people to get educated, not less. So what is the Premier's preferred option? Does he want these schools to cancel programs, to lay people off, or is it, as we suspected all along, that he wants to put the burden on students with skyrocketing tuition and asking them to pay more taxes if they stay in Manitoba? Hon.

Ian Wishart (Minister of Education and Training): This government has chosen to put its emphasis on making access better for students in– and, accordingly, we have increased early the process of providing Manitoba Scholarship and Bursary Initiative. We took $1.5 million that they were paying out under the previous program, and we have made that into a $20-million program. I don't understand how the member can construe that in any way as reducing access to students to post-secondary institutions, and I don't think they can either. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Rouge, on a supplementary question.

Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, we need high- quality, post-secondary education in Manitoba. Already, many universities in Manitoba are struggling to attract talented faculty with competitive pay. Now the Premier wants to lock in this disadvantage and have them fall further behind as inflation drives up salaries at other universities in North America.

1682 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2017 We need post -secondaries to educate young people for the jobs of the future and also to be the job creators of the future. That requires investments, not cuts. How does the Premier think he can meet the challenges of tomorrow by handcuffing these schools to yesterday's funding? Mr.

Wishart: But I think the member needs to look back on the process of funding for post -secondary institutions and the tuition associated with and recall the five years that they had frozen tuition in Manitoba for those same institutions, and then when they did allow them to go up, they only went up at the cost of inflation. So, certainly, post -secondary institutions have gone through a long period where they have struggled for funding.

We're in the process now of having good discussions with post -secondary institutions about funding now and into the future, and when we're done making changes to the funding for post-secondaries and to the students, we'll have a sustainable post-secondary system, not what we had before. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Rouge, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Affordable tuition is the best way to ensure accessibility at post -secondaries. We look to the future. We're not going to cut our way out of this province's challenges.

We have to grow our way out, and that requires investments, including in post - secondaries. So as we look to create a new economy with new jobs, what sort of new funding is this Premier bringing to the University of Manitoba? Zero. University of Winnipeg? Zero. ACC and Brandon University? Zero. Red River College and UCN? One million dollars and 300-K less. The only thing new is higher tuition. So will the Premier change course and commit to increasing the operating grants for post-secondaries in Manitoba? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): I recognize that the member is advocating for his friends in the academic community with his

preamble, Madam Speaker. Higher pay for professors is what he's standing for, which means, of course, higher taxes, which means, of course, he's also combining and putting on display a lack of understanding of how universities c an be funding the ability to pay higher pay for his professorial colleagues. If you cap tuition then you find it difficult to raise the pay of professors, that's what the previous administration did. In every

preamble, Madam Speaker, the member plays to special interests while failing to mention that the growth he talks about and seeks, that was pursued by the previous administration was growing debt, growing deficits and growing taxes, all of those a burden on families and students in this province. Imposing greater burdens was the record of the NDP, a record I know he wants to escape, Madam Speaker, but a record nonetheless that stood in the way of improving the lives of Manitoba's high school graduates.

We will stand with them and we will provide bette r opportunities for them and better quality education for them as well. Protection for Workers Government Record Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): The National Day of Mourning is a day to remember workers who have died in workplaces due to injury and illness. The Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade spoke quite eloquently earlier about the Day of Mourning, but workers actually respect actions mo re than words.

This government has made it more difficult to unionize in Manitoba; they've kept union leaders in the dark, failed to consult, frozen wages and threatened to open collective agreements. One of their first acts in office was to dissolve the Department of Labour. Can the Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade explain how any of these actions are going to protect workers? Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade): I appreciate the member's question. Clearly, we take workers' safety of paramount concern on this side of the House. We certainly appreciate the comments.

We know the previous government–and, in fact, the opposition now –are continuing with that campaign of fear. We believe in having discussions with Manitobans. We know that the previous government, and now in opposition, are taking direction from union leaders. We believe in consulting with all Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a supplementary question.

April 27, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1683 Mr. Lindsey: Consult with all Manitobans except union leaders. Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade says one thing, does another. In Budget 2017 he cut $65,000 from Workplace Safety and Health, those are jobs that protect workers; cut $92,000 from Employment Standards, those are standards that protect workers; cut $121,000 from the Labour Board, those are positions that protect workers. Can the Minister for Growth, Enterprise and Trade explain how cutting $278,000 from institutions that protect workers is going to protect workers? Mr.

Cullen: Well, Madam Speaker, we believe that things can be done better. We don't believe in the status quo, as this opposition does. Madam Speaker, we believe we can run the department more efficiently. We know the previous solution under the previous government was to spend more money, but that wasn't about achieving results. This side of the House is –it's about achieving results and it's about worker safety for all Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a final supplementary. Mr. Lindsey: The Leaders' Walk is a solemn event that takes place every year as part of the Day of Mourning.

As a man who claims to be proud of his time as a union rep, the Premier (Mr. Pallister) must recognize the importance of standing with workers to remember lost lives. * (14:10) Will he show some leadership, show respect for the dead and injured workers? Will he show up and march tomorrow in the National Day of Mourning leaders' march? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Cu llen: Certainly, we will be standing with workers tomorrow and recognizing this important day and, certainly, reflecting on the members that were lost at work.

In terms of consultation, I want to remind the member that we just did an extensive consultati on relative to the Workers Compensation Board. We look forward to those findings. In the very near future, we're also going to be kicking off a review of the workplace safe and – Workplace Safety and Health Act. We think this is very important, a real op portunity to engage Manitobans in a very important piece of legislation. Changes to Health Services Impact on Public Sector Workers Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): At yesterday's 600-plus nurses rally, of which the Premier (Mr.

Pallister) and Health Minister couldn't even bother to attend, a young home -care worker from St. Johns came up to me and shared with me how she worries about the future of her family and her job with the government's millions of dollars in cuts coming down the line. Interestingly, she also shared with me that she had never witnessed something like yesterday's rally. There's a whole new generation of nurses and doctors who haven't seen a government bent on ravaging Manitoba's health-care system.

Under our NDP government, we did listen to nurses and doctors, and put in measures of support to strengthen our Manitoba health care after years of demise under the Filmon government. Will the Health– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of H ealth, Seniors and Active Living ): Well, I respect comments of all Manitobans. I wish the individual would have witnessed the PST rally a few years ago, when thousands of people came to the steps of the Legislature and were concerned about sustainability. They were concerned about how higher taxes impacted family.

They were concerned about how higher debts ultimately impacted the ability to deliver health care in a sustainable way. Because those are real challenges and they're challenges that this government inherited from the previous government. But we have to face–we know that health care is important today. We know it's important tomorrow. But it's also important for our kids and for our grandkids. It has to be there, as well. That is what sustainability is about, and that is what we'll deliver, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question. Ms. Fontaine: This St.

Johns constituent is too young to know the cuts that Manitoba's health care suffered under the last Conservative government. She grew up with services that were protected and invested in.

1684 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2017 But for older constituents in St. Johns who remember nurses and doctors leaving the province and unpaid days for workers, they know the Premier's (Mr. Palli ster) Conservative playbook all too well. Manitobans know what the Premier did the last time he was in Cabinet: firing nurses, trying to privatize home care and drove out hundreds of doctors from Manitoba–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Fontaine: Will the Premier– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Ms.

Fontaine: –admit his vision for Manitoba is to go back in time and finish his attack on public services? Mr. Goertzen : Well, Madam Speaker, young and old in Manitoba know what it's like to wait: to wait in an emergency room as designed by the former NDP government; to wait in an emergency room for 600,000 hours collectively in one year. They know what it's like to wait for eight hours, 10 hours and not get care from a doctor. They know what it's like to be there with a young person, with a child who isn't able to see a doctor for six, seven, eight, 10 hours.

They know that because they've lived it under the NDP for 17 yea rs and they don't want to live it any more, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary. Post-Secondary Students Education Affordability Concerns Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns ): Well, for the young post -secondary students in our province this new regime of tuition hikes and tax increases is shocking. They grew up in a province that made post-secondary education affordable and accessible with investment each year.

They knew at the end of a degree they'd f ind a good job–they'd –and they'd put down their roots in Manitoba. Students want a government that listens to them, invests in their education. But all this government can do is cut funding, cut programs and balance the budget on their backs. Will the Ed ucation Minister listen to young people and make education affordable again? Hon. Ian Wishart (Minister of Education and Training): We have been listening to students in Manitoba when they told us to provide the support up front.

So we changed the program from 20 years down the road to up front to give them the support so they would have better access to post -secondary education than t hey ever did under the previous government. When they ran things, we had record numbers of young people leaving the province. Misericordia Health Centre Urgent-Care-Centre Team Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I want to tell you about a team, a team that has taken 19 years to build. This is a team that has delivered superb health care, has largely kept wait times short and is considered among the best in the city.

With this A -plus report card they've also managed to keep it under budget, in the black. This is a team that our system should be determined to keep. The team I'm referring to is the Misericordia Urgent Care Centre team. Why is the minister planning to dismantle this team and close the Misericordia Urgent Care Centre? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living): Well, Madam Speaker, the Misericordia will continue to be part of the larger team in the Winnipeg health regional authority that is delivering better care to patients more quickly and, ultimately, that is what it is about.

We need to ensure that Manitobans who show up at emergency rooms, whether it is 3 in the morning or 3 in the afternoon, don't have to wait for 10 hours before they or a loved one or a young person is actually getting support and actually getting service, Madam Speaker. That is the larger perspective in the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority. All Winnipeggers deserve service in a better way. That is why we're following the recommendations of Dr. Peachey, who was hand-selected by the NDP. Madam Speaker: The honourable member from River Heights, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Gerrard: Madam Speaker, delivering health care is always a team activity and the team is people, not just buildings. People come to this urgent -care centre from all over Manitoba, especially for eye problems because they know if the urgent -care team can't solve the

April 27, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1685 problem, the Buhler Eye Care Centre, the largest surgical and eye -treatment program in western Canada, is there for backup. These tw o Misericordia teams, the urgent -care team and the eye team, work together and have achieved a synergy greater than either alone. Why is the minister terminating the synergy at the Misericordia by disbanding its urgent-care team? Mr. Goertzen: Well, Madam Speaker, the member speaks correctly when he talks about the lack of synergy in the overall health -care system.

There is a lack of synergy, and it's why we have more emergency rooms than other cities of comparable size in the rest of Canada and ours per form worse than almost everyone in Canada. You look at cities like Vancouver, you look at cities like Calgary, like Ottawa, cities that are larger than the city of Winnipeg, and they have more emergency rooms –or, they have less emergency rooms, but their wait times are shorter. Clearly, we need to ensure that our entire team is working well, that there's synergy throughout the system and Manitobans are getting care in a timely way, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights, on a final supplementary. Mr. Gerrard: Madam Speaker, it's important to build on the synergy which currently exists. The Misericordia Urgent Care Centre is doing a phenomenal job of providing urgent care to people in the local community and, in many cases , to individuals who are the most vulnerable, who are homeless and people with disabilities. I note there is room at the Misericordia to host both the urgent -care centre and the intravenous-therapy unit the minister wants to move there.

Will the Minister of Health create a greater synergy and combine the eye team, the intravenous-therapy team and the urgent -care-centre team at the Misericordia? Mr. Goertzen : Madam Speaker, when you look at those who are coming to the urgent -care centre at Misericordia, they are coming from all over the city. They are coming almost evenly distributed from all over the city of Winnipeg. * (14:20) By having, as Dr.

Peachey recommended having, two urgent -care centres, one located in the north part of Winnipeg, one located in the south part of Winnipeg, we'll ensure that those individuals who are dispersed throughout the city can find urgent care in a quick way, but also ensure that the emergency rooms that remain, and that are better in the three facilities, are op erating in a way that provide true emergent care quickly, and those who have urgent-care needs can find that in those two facilities, Madam Speaker. Red River College Innovation Centre Project Mr.

Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): Madam Speaker, great things are happening in Manitoba. In my constituency, many careers have started at Red River College. This morning there was a great announcement for Red River College. An investment in post-secondary education in the province, Madam Speaker, is always a good one. The Innovation Centre at Red River College will stimulate economic development and further growth in our province. Can the Minister of Education and Training please explain to the House how this project will help to ensure students are job ready and able to thrive in the new economy? Hon.

Ian Wishart (Minister of Education and Training): I thank the member for the excellent question. This morning I was pleased to join other levels of government to announce support for Red River College's $95.4-million Innovation Centre. The centre will provide a new platform for emerging technology and products to be developed and commercialized for both existing companies and start-ups. The centre will shorten the time from imagination to commercialization and help grow our economy.

This facility will be the first of its kind in western Canada and support the Premier's Enterprise Team strategy for economic growth while creating new opportunities for students to gain hands -on experience in entrepreneurship and innovation. Our government is pleased to support this facility that will deliver on our commitment– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired.

1686 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2017 Pinawa Nuclear Reactor Federal Government's Proposal Mr. Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): Can someone from this government please explain to Manitobans what their position is on the recent federal proposal to cover the damaged nuclear reactor in Pinawa in concrete? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living): Well, Madam Speaker, we're always interested to hear different suggestions and ideas as it comes from the federal government. We'd like to hear more ideas when it comes to being real partners in things, for example, is health care.

We know that they are co ntinuing to provide less support when it comes to health care. But if they have ideas in terms of protecting the good folks in Pinawa and protecting our environment, we are always willing to stand and work with the federal government or anyone who wants to better the environment, Madam Speaker. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable member for Wolseley, on a supplementary question. Mr. Altemeyer: Yes, the other shoe is about to drop. I appreciate the Health Minister's intervention, bizarre though it was.

This is actually the jurisdiction of the Sustainable Development Minister. I'm wondering if she might be aware that the federal government's proposal for the damaged nuclear reactor in Pinawa runs directly contrary t o Manitoba law, specifically, The High-Level Radioactive Waste Act which says don't entomb nuclear long- term radioactive waste in Manitoba. I'll table the act for the minister's reference. Hon. Cathy Cox (Minister of Sustainable Development): Thanks so much to the member opposite. We continue to work with the federal government on a number of different initiatives.

You know, just recently –today, as a matter of fact –we were talking to the Minister of Natural Resources with regard to softwood lumber, and we will continue to discuss these issues with Manitobans and with the federal government. This government, as I said earlier, is –the environment is a priority and we will continue to address issues regarding the environment such as issues that the membe rs opposite never addressed, such as surface water management and climate change. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable member for Wolseley, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Altemeyer: All right, attempt No. 3 to bring this government up to speed. The minister has actually written a letter to long-time nuclear watchdog activist, Mr. Dave Taylor, who's very kindly joined us today in the Chamber to offer his expertise, which is clearly needed, to this minister and her gov ernment. I hope she will commit to meet with Mr. Taylor to learn more about what she needs to be doing because her own staff person has said that the Province will actively make its views known as a member of the federal review team.

Why is she going to tell the federal government what their position is on a damaged nuclear reactor and they won't tell Manitobans? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): We're always interested in the expertise of Manitobans, Madam Speaker, and in making sure that we take the right steps to protect our environment here in Manitoba.

But I am, and I have to, Madam Speaker, comment on the fact that the members opposite are now expressing interest and concern about a federal issue when they were totally silent–totally silent– when the federal government was talking about bringing in CPP without any enhancements to protect seniors at all. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: We stood up for Manitobans while they sat on their hands. On health transfer reductions, Madam Speaker, they had the opportunity; the federal government was reducing by half, the amount of the increase in health transfers.

They had no views whatsoever, sat on their hands, totally quiet. I appreciate [inaudibl e] [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

April 27, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1687 Mr. Pallister: Also, Madam Speaker, when the Factory of the Future, a $60- million– $60-million–investment, was threatened by the federal government, they sat on their hands, cuddled up with the Prime Minister and had nothing to say. Now they're interested. Good for them. Keep up the good work. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Infrastructure Spending Municipal Budget Support Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I have more questions to the Premier.

Madam Speaker, Mayor Bowman has said that the Building Manitoba Fund works because, quote, it was tied to economic growth. As the economy grew, so does financial support for Winnipeg's infrastructure. In fact, it is the law in Manitoba that municipalities share in the province's growth. Let the –yet the budget for municipalities has $50 million less in supports. Then the minister said on Monday in the House that the Building Manitoba Fund is flatlined. I ask the Premier: Why is he ignoring the infrastructure deficit in Winnipeg and across Manitoba? Hon.

Eileen Clarke (Minister of Indigenous and Municipal Relations): I thank the member opposite for his question. His information, of course, is not tot ally correct. The Building Manitoba Fund is in place, just as it always has been. We were pleased to give the municipalities the same funding that they had in 2016. Municipalities all across Manitoba have echoed, since the day of the announcement of our budget, that they were pleased with what the decision had been from this government. A meeting with myself and Mr.

Bowman also indicated that they are totally accepting of our budget and that we will continue to work on infrastructure deficits throughout the province of Manitoba. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Elmwood, on a supplementary question. Mr. Maloway: The Building Manitoba Fund has totally disappeared as a line in this year's budget. By law, the municipalities are to share in the province's growth, but page 20 of the Estimates for budget 2016-17 shows that there is $50 million less in supports. And the minister said on Monday that the Building Manitoba Fund has been flatlined.

I wish to table these documents so that the Premier and the minister can see for themselves. I'd like to ask the Premier to explain to this House: Why is he ignoring the infrastructure debt in Manitoba? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, I appreciate a question on infrastructure. * (14:30) The previous government overspent in every single department virtually every single year they were in government, Madam Speaker, except in one department. In one department they overpromised and underdelivered. For every $4 they promised to spend in one de partment, they spent $3, not $4, but $3.

Then they took all that budgeted money, Madam Speaker, $2.2 billion over the previous four years prior to the last election –they took it all and they spent it on something other than, you guessed it, infrastructure. Yes. They didn't invest in infrastructure, Madam Speaker, but we will. We will, and we're going to work in partnership with the City of Winnipeg to make sure we get the best return on investment from the money, because rather than just put up signs before the election talking about it, we're going to work on it every single year. Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired.

PETITIONS Concordia Hospital Emergency Room Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And t he background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The provincial government has announced the closures of three emergency rooms and an urgent-care centre in the city of Winnipeg , 'inclusing'–including closing down the emergency room at Concordia Hospital.

(2) The closures come on the heels of the closing of a nearby QuickCare clinic, as well as cancelled plans for ACCESS centres and personal -care homes, such as Park Manor, that would have provided

1688 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2017 important services for families and seniors in the area.

(3) The closures have left families and seniors in northeast Winnipeg without any point of contact with front-line health-care services and will result in them having to travel 20 minutes or more to St. Boniface hospital's emergency room for emergency care.

(4) These cuts will place a heavy burden on the many seniors who live in northeast Winnipeg and who visit the emergency room frequently, especially those who are unable to drive or are low-income.

(5) The provincial government failed to consult with families and seniors in northeast Winnipeg regarding the closing of their emergency room or to consult with health officials and health -care workers at Concordia to discuss how this closure would impact patient care in advance of the announcement. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to reverse the decision to close Concordia Hospital's emergency room so that families and seniors in northeast Winnipeg and the surrounding areas have timely access to quality health-care services.

And t his petition was signed by many Manitobans. Madam Speaker: In accordance with out rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Kelvin High School Gymnasium and Wellness Centre Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Manitobans recognize how important it is to provide young people with quality learning spaces to succeed in school.

(2) Sport, recreation and the spaces to engage in them are critical to the health and welfare of all students.

(3) All forms of educational infrastructure, including gymnasiums and recreation centres in general, represent an incredible value- for-money investment, whereby the return is improved physical and psychological health and wellness.

(4) Kelvin High School is one of the largest high schools in the province, with over 1,200 students.

(5) Kelvin High School spent several years raising almost $1.2 million towards the construction of a new gymnasium and wellness centre.

(6) Some Kelvin students currently have to pay to use outside facilities to obtain their mandatory physical education credit.

(7) The provincial government, in a regressive and short -sighted move, cancelled funding for the Kelvin gym and wellness centre for political reasons, despite the ext ensive community support, fund-raising and engagement.

(8) It is wasteful and disrespectful to the dedicated efforts of students, staff and the community in general to simply lay their goals aside without consultation. We petition the Legislative Assembl y of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to recognize the need for excellent recreation facilities in all Manitoba schools, to reverse this regressive cut and to provide Kelvin High School with the funding necessary to complete a new g ymnasium and wellness centre. This petition is signed by many Manitobans, Madam Speaker. Taxi Industry Regulation Mr.

Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background for this petition is as follows: The taxi industry in Winnipeg provides an important service to all Manitobans.

(2) The taxi industry is regulated to ensure there are both the provision of taxi service and a fair and affordable fare structure.

(3) Regulations have been put in place that has made Winnipeg a leader in protecting the safety of taxi drivers through the installation of shields and cameras.

(4) The regulated taxi system is –also has significant measures in place to protect passengers , including a stringent complaint system.

(5) The provincial government has moved to bring in legislation through Bill 30 that will transfer

April 27, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1689 jurisdiction to the City of Winnipeg in order to bring in so-called ride-sharing services like Uber.

(6) There were no consultations with the taxi industry prior to the introduction of this bill.

(7) The introduction of this bill jeopardizes safety, taxi service and also puts consumers at risk, as well as the livelihood of hundreds of Manitobans, many of whom hav e invested their life savings into the industry.

(8) The proposed legislation also puts the regulated framework at risk and could lead to issues such as what have been seen in other jurisdictions, including differential pricing, not providing service to some areas of the city and significant risks in terms of taxi driver and passenger safety. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to withdraw its plans to deregulate the taxi industry, including withdrawing Bill 30. Mr. Greg Selinger (St. Boniface): I wish to read the following petition into the records of the Legislature.

The background to this petition is as follows: The taxi industry in Winnipeg provides an important service to all Manitobans. The taxi industry is regulated to ensure there are both the provision of taxi service and a fair and affordable fare structure. Regulations have been put in place that has made Winnipeg a leader in protecting the safety of taxi drivers through the installation of shields and cameras. And the regulated taxi system also has significant measures in place to protect passengers, including a stringent complaint system.

The provincial government has moved to bring in legislation through Bill 30 that will transfer jurisdiction to the City of Winnipeg in order to bring in so-called ride-sharing services like Uber. There were no consultations with the taxi industry prior to the introduction of this bill. The introduction of this bill jeopardizes safe ty, taxi service and also puts consumers at risk, as well as the livelihood of hundreds of Manitobans, many of whom have invested their life savings into the industry.

The proposed legislation also puts the regulated framework at risk and could lead to i ssues such as what has been seen in other jurisdictions, including differential pricing, not providing service to some areas of the city and significant risks in terms of taxi driver and passenger safety. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to withdraw its plans to deregulate the taxi industry, including the withdrawal of Bill 30. Signed by many, many Manitobans, Madam Speaker. Ms.

Amanda Lathlin (The Pas): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The taxi industry in Winnipeg provides an important service to all Manitobans.

(2) The taxi industry is regulated to ensure there are both the provision of taxi service and a fair and affordable fare structure.

(3) Regulations have been put in place that has made Winnipeg a leader in protecting the safety of taxi drivers through the installation of shields and cameras.

(4) The regulated taxi system also has significant measures in place to protect passengers, including a stringent complaint system.

(5) The provincial government has moved to bring in legislation through Bill 30 that will transfer jurisdiction to the City of Winnipeg in order to bring in so-called ride-sharing services like Uber.

(6) There were no consultations with the taxi industry prior to the introduction of this bill.

(7) The introduction of this bill jeopardizes safety, taxi service and also puts consumers at risk, as well as the livelihood of hundreds of Manitobans, many of whom have invested their life savings into the industry.

(8) The proposed legislation also puts the regulated framework at risk and could lead to the – to issues such as what has been seen in other jurisdictions, including differential pricing, not providing service to some areas of the city and significant risks in terms of taxi driver and passenger safety.

1690 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2017 We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to withdraw its plans to deregulate the taxi industry, including withdrawing Bill 30. This bill–this petition has been signed by many, many Manitobans. Ms. Flor Marcelino (Leader o f the Official Opposition): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: The taxi industry in Winnipeg provides an important service to all Manitobans.

(2) The taxi industry is r egulated to ensure there are both the provision of taxi service and a fair and affordable fare structure.

(3) Regulations have been put in place that has made Winnipeg a leader in protecting the safety of taxi drivers through the installation of shields and cameras.

(4) The regulated taxi system also has significant measures in place to protect passengers, including a stringent complaint system.

(5) The provincial government has moved to bring in legislation through Bill 30 that will transfer jurisdiction to the City of Winnipeg in order to bring in so-called ride-sharing services like Uber.

(6) There were no consultations with the taxi industry prior to the introduction of this bill.

(7) The introduction of this bill jeopardizes safety, taxi serv ice, and also puts consumers at risk, as well as the livelihood of hundreds of Manitobans, many of whom have invested their life savings into the industry.

(8) The proposed legislation also puts the regulated framework at risk and could lead to issues such as what has been seen in other jurisdictions, including differential pricing, not providing service to some areas of the city, and significant risks in terms of taxi driver and passenger safety. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to withdraw its plans to deregulate the taxi industry, including withdrawing Bill 30. Signed by many, many Manitobans. Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to the petition is as follows:

(1) The taxi industry in Winnipeg provides an important service to all Manitobans.

(2) The taxi industry is regulated to ensure there are both the provision of taxi service and a fair and affordable fare structure.

(3) Regulations have been put in place that has made Winnipeg a leader in protecting the safety of taxi drivers through the installation of shields and cameras.

(4) The regulated taxi system also has significant measures in place to protect passengers, including a stringent complaint system.

(5) The provincial government has moved to bring in legislation through Bill 30 that will transfer jurisdiction to the City of Winnipeg in order to bring in so-called ride-share services like Uber.

(6) There were no consultations with the taxi industry prior to the introduction of this bill.

(7) The introduction of this bill jeopardizes safety, taxi service, and also puts consumers at risk, as well as the livelihood of hundreds of Manitobans, many of whom have invested their life savings into the industry.

(8) The proposed legislation also puts the regulated framework at risk and could lead to issues such as what has been seen in other jurisdictions, including deferential pricing, not providing service to some areas of the city, and significant risks in terms of taxi driver and passenger safety. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to withdraw its plans to deregulate the taxi industry, including withdrawing Bill 30. And this petition is signed by many Manitobans.

April 27, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1691 Madam Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Andrew Micklefield (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, on House Business, I would like to announce that the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development will meet on Monday, May 8th, 2017, and, if necessary, on Tuesday, May 9th, 2017, at 6 p.m. to consider Bill 28, The Public Services Sustainability Act.

I'd also like to announce that the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs will meet on Monday, May 8th, 2017, and, if necessary, on Tuesday, May 9th, 2017, at 6 p.m. to consider Bill 29, The Health Sector Bargaining Unit Review Act. Madam Speaker: It has been announced by the honourable Government House Leader that the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development will meet on Monday, May 8th, 2017, and, if necessary, on Tuesday, May 9th, 2017, at 6 p.m. to consider Bill 28, The Public Services Sustainability Act.

It was also announced that the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs will meet on Monday, May 8th, 2017, and, if necessary, on Tuesday, May 9th, 2017, at 6 p.m . to consider Bill 29, The Health Sector Bargaining Unit Review Act. Mr. Micklefield : Madam Speaker, I would like to announce that the Standing Committee on Public Accounts will meet on May the 8th, 2017, at 10 a.m. to consider the following reports: Auditor General's Report–Follow-Up of Previously Issued Recommendations, dated May 2015:

section 2 Economic Development: Loans and Investments under The Development Corporation Act;

section 5, Animikii Ozoson C hild and Family Services Agency ;

section 11, Report on the Rural Municipality of St. Clements; s ection 12, Citizen concerns, North Portage Development Corporation;

section 16, Office of the Fire Commissioner; Auditor General's Report –Follow-Up of Recommendations, dated May 2016: Animikii Ozoson Child and Family Services Agency, Northern Airports and Marine Operations; Report on the Rural Municipality of St. Clements; Citizen c oncerns, North Portage Development Corporation; Office of the Fire Commissioner; Citizen c oncerns, Town of Lac du Bonnet , Bulk Water Sales; Rural Municipality of Lac du Bonnet, Lake Manitoba Financial Assistance Program,

part C and D; Auditor General's Report –Follow-Up Recommendations, dated March 2017: Citizen concerns, North Portage Development Cor poration; Rural Munici pality of Lac du Bonnet; Provincial Nominee Program for Business; Auditor General's Report–WRHA's Management of Risks Associated with End- User D evices, dated July 2015; Auditor General's Report –Follow-Up of recommendations, dated March 2017: WRHA's Management of R isks Associated with End -User Devices; Witnesses to be called: the Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living (Mr. Goertzen); Deputy Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living.

Madam Speaker: It has been announced by the honourable Government House Leader that the Standing Committee on Public Accounts will meet on May 8th, 2017, at 10 a.m. to consider the following reports: Auditor General's Report –Follow-up of Previously Issued R ecommendations, dated May 2015:

section 2, Economic Developmen t: Loans and Investments under T he Devel opment Corporation Act;

section 5, Animikii Ozoso n Child and Family Services Agency; s ection 11, Report on the Rural Municipality of St. Clements;

section 12, Citizen concerns, North Portage Development Corporation;

section 16, Office of the Fire Commissioner; Auditor General's Report –Follow-up of Recommendations, dated May 2016: Animikii Ozoson Child and Family Services Agency, Northern Airports and Marine Operations; Report on the Rural Municipality of St. Clements; Citizen c oncerns, North Portage Development Corporation; Office of the Fire Commissioner; Citizen c oncerns, Town of Lac du Bonnet, Bulk Water Sales; Rural Municipality of Lac du Bonnet, Lake Manitoba Financial Assistance Program,

part C and D; Auditor General's Report –Follow-up of Recommendations, dated March 2017: Citizen concerns, North Port age Development Corporation; Rural Municipality of Lac du Bonnet; Provinci al Nominee Program for Business;

1692 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2017 Auditor General's Report–WRHA's Management of the Ri sks Associated with End -User D evices, dated July 2015; Auditor General's Report –Follow-up of Recommendations, dated March 2017: WRHA's Management of Risk s Associated with End -User Devices; Witnesses to be called: Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living (Mr. Goertzen); Deputy of Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living. * * * Mr. Micklefield : Madam Speaker, this afternoon, we wish to continue with Estimates. Madam Speaker: The House will now resolve itself into Committee of Supply. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) EXECUTIVE COUNCIL * (15:00) Mr. Chairperson (Dennis Smook): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Executive Council. The floor is now open for questions. Ms. Flor Marcelino (Leader of the O fficial Opposition): We have a few questions for the Premier related to staffing. Can the Premier please indicate the names and titles of his senior political staff in the Executive Council? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Gladly, and I will pull that list together for the member, and I–as I have done with her questions, we'll get the information to her.

And just to be clear, I think she was just asking names and positions of staff of the– An Honourable Member: Senior. Mr. Pallister: –of the senior st aff. And so senior staff would leave out administrative positions and that type of thing. Okay, glad to do that. If I could, I'll –I had the information the member asked for me yesterday to provide, and I'm bringing that to provide to her today. So, first of all, she had asked for information from–any information from KPMG reports that – what had been released, and that is the Fiscal Performance Review, which was in Appendix 1 of the budget, pages 24 to 27.

As well, the Health System Sustainability and Innovation Review, which is in Appendix 4 of the budget, pages 36 to 39. In addition, the member had asked what the cost was of the Fiscal Performance Review; that was $740,000; of the Health System Sustainability and Innovation Review, that was $750,000. And she asked what the cost was of the Advisory Panel on Fiscal Performance, and I would –I can tell her approximately, but there's still a couple of receipts, maybe, to come, so I'll ask her indulgence that it might be a little bit off, but under $20,000; I think approximately $17,350, in that range. Ms.

Marcelino: I thank the Premier for the fast response to yesterday's question. Another question on political staff this time. Does the government –how many political staff does the government employ across departments, say, how many special assistants, how many members of Cabinet Communications, and how many in the various Cabinet offices across the province? Mr. Pallister: Very good. Now these are the kinds of questions I like at Estimates, because they are to the point of budgeting and spending taxpayers' money, as opposed to some of the questions from the member for Fort Garry -Riverview (Mr.

Allum) yesterday which were more rhetorical. These are actual facts –fact-based questions. These are the questions that the previous premier and I dealt with in Estimates year after year, and I think these are fruitful questions, and I thank the member for asking these. I will undertake to get the information she's requested, and I'll repeat it back to make sure that I'm getting the right information. She's asking, what are the political staff positions– An Honourable Member: Across departments. Mr. Pallister: –across– An Honourable Member: Special assistants. Mr. Pallister: –special assistants.

Would this include constituency people as well? An Honourable Member: No. Mr. Pallister: –and executive assistants as– An Honourable Member: Just in departments.

April 27, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1693 Mr. Pallister: –just in the departments themselves, and if there are regional offices. I'm assuming you would also want to know the staff there. Good. Ms. Marcelino: In addition, Mr. Premier (Mr. Pallister), Cabinet communications staff. Another question: The Premier knows David McLaughlin. Can the Premier indicate what files or departments he works in, and how much money has the Manitoba government spent on his travels since May 2016? Mr. Chairperson: The–I'm just screwed up today. The honourable First Minister. Mr. Pallister: Absolutely.

We'll undertake to compile that as well. And just to repeat back again: For Mr. McLaughlin, wanting travel costs and salary. An Honourable Member: Yes, please. Mr. Pallister: Yes. Okay, very good. Ms. Marcelino: Maybe we could add to that if – Mr. Chair, could the Premier also provide if the Manitoba government purchased carbon offsets for Mr. McLaughlin's travels? We understand he travels by plane. Mr.

Pallister: I would first remark that our travel expenses are down by 11 per cent from the previous government, so in respect of carbon offsets purchased for any of our travel, no–as was the practice under the previous government –that is not the case. But I would rem ark that our travel expense budget is 11 per cent lower than the previous government, and actual expenses are lower.

And I would also remark that in the first year of a new government, that is a pretty good accomplishment, I think, because in the first yea r of a new government, replacing a government which was in for 17 years to reduce expenditures by that significant an amount is quite an accomplishment. We are utilizing as many mechanisms as cost effectively as we can to gain information, build relationships with other provinces and learn from experts nationally and internationally throughout government.

When I refer to the travel number, I'm referring to the global travel number, so that means I'm also including in that travel by deputy ministers and senior staff in addition. We're very conscious of the environmental impact of our travel, and at the same time, we are also conscious of the travel costs, and so we're endeavouring whenever possible to use travel effectively and well and also to use other meeting opportunities which are more plentiful now with new technology than they were in the past, granted.

You know, opportunities for video conferencing and Skype meetings as opposed to travel are there, and we want to utilize those as well. So it is my hope that we can continue to keep our costs down in every category where necessary so we can focus resources on priority items that give better services to the people of Manitoba. Ms. Marcelino: Will the Premier commit to tabling any reports Mr. McLaughlin has written or will write over the course of his employment? * (15:10) Mr.

Pallister: Well, I think the member is aware we're in the process of consulting right now and have been extensively consulting with Manitobans and researching nationally and internationally in–with the goal of presenting a made -in-Manitoba green plan, and so, that gr een plan we expect to be tabled in the not-too-distant future for further commentary and review by Manitobans.

The results of that work, we hope, will be, of course, maintaining our very green reputation as a province, enhancing it in the future and maki ng sure that, as opposed to previous years when targets were constantly talked about and never met, we'll actually be achieving improvements in respect of reducing our carbon footprint, in terms of utilizing our resources more sustainably, whether it be water, soil, air. Our plan will be, I think, based on early consultation that we've done, very well -received. And there'll be a great number of opinions expressed about it. And we look forward to hearing those. Ms.

Marcelino: There have been some staffing changes today regarding Mr. McLaughlin. Can the Premier indicate both what he previously did and what his new role will be? Mr. Pallister: I can say to the member that Mr. McLaughlin has been leading our green plan development strategies, working very hard on the consultations, doing a lot of work in respect of that. I seriously doubt that there is a single group in Manitoba that has environmental issues that is not aware of his work and that hasn't had a meeting with

1694 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2017 him. He has been working very, very hard on that file. But now a preliminary –as the member knows, a preliminary discussion document is out so that people can view it. I believe we're getting –I know in the first few days there were over 7,000 responses to the interim plan. And so, in the interim period, he'll be assisting us in the –as we move forward with a transformative health –co-ordination of a transformative health office to co -ordinate communications a mong various health deliverers. Mr.

McLaughlin will help us on an interim basis with some communications issues, as well. The challenges around change are real, and it's important to understand, I think, that making sure – because change causes fear among many people–it's important not to magnify those fears unnecessarily but, rather, to replace the fear with courage and confidence. Nelson Mandela once said that courage isn't the absence of fear, that it's willingness to seek progress in the face of fear.

And so this is exactly what we're trying to do now: make sure that Manitobans can be made aware and confident of what we're doing, and it's communicated well and effectively, and that it continues, as we have done from the outset, to involve and include M anitobans in the process. I think that's really important. Ms. Marcelino: The Premier has included long-term budget projections for the first time in his budget, and we welcome that gesture of transparency.

But our question is: Do the projected forecast s for revenue for the 2017- 18, and subsequent years that the government included on page 12 of the budget papers, include any revenue the government anticipates to receive from the creation of carbon tax? Mr. Pallister: Well, I see my able assistants here digging.

I'll just have to remark that our –what we're striving to do with respect to our budget is something that the previous administration failed to do year after year, and that is to make our figures as close as possible to reality, to make sure that the numbers we put in our budget reflect a very real and likely outcome at the end of the year.

What happened–and I mentioned this yesterday to the member in committee, but what happened year after year with respect to the previous government's budgeting practices was that they understated the amount of their deficits, and so, as a consequence, those who previously might have wanted to have some confidence in the budget forecasts were losing that confidence increasingly over a period of time. Many years , the projections were hundreds of millions of dollars at the start of the year below what the actual deficits that were run by the government ended up being.

In fact, in the year before the election, the deficit was projected at about $400 million and ended up being well over $800 million. That's a significant–that's missing the mark by a wide amount. And so, in terms of the forecasting that we're doing, we're attempting to be accurate. This year's Public Accounts will show the degree of accuracy, but I believe current projections are that we will be the closest to our actual projections of any year I think in over 15 years.

So the closest to our actual projection, we'd be doing a little bit better than we had projected at the start of our first budget in terms of the Public Accounts outcomes we anticipate. We'll know better, of course, in a couple of months' time when they come out, but our current projections show that we've actually overachieved. So our plan here was to, in our projections, make sure that we were reasonable and, I guess, appropriately somewhat conservative in our projections.

So, as far as revenues, because we have yet to see the federal government's plan, we can't assume what their policies will be in terms of carbon pricing with certainty. No carbon-pricing revenues would be included in the projections. Ms. Marcelino: I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, I didn't quite get if the Premier (Mr. Pallister) did indicate – please confirm–if the Premier would include in the projections the carbon- pricing tax. I didn't quite get it. Mr. Pallister: Well, again, for the member, we can't include a carbon -price projection based on a federal government plan that has yet to be made clear.

We're waiting for the federal government to table the final plan tha t they will propose to Canadians and at that point in time we'll be able to then develop reasonable projections based on some certainty of where they would think we should be going. For our purposes, our own plan will be released on Central Standard Time, not on Eastern Standard Time, so we will put out our plan in due course. And at that point in time, Manitobans will have the chance for input and they may have the opportunity to make recommendations and I expect

April 27, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1695 they will in regard to where they think we should go on carbon- pricing as one of –and only one of –the many-faceted aspects of our green plan that we'll be presenting to Manitobans. Ms. Marcelino: So it's my understanding–the Premier (Mr. Pallister) will correct if my understanding is not correct –that it will be included in the future projections once you have heard from the federal government. Mr. Pallister: That would–that's a hypothetical question that I can't answer.

I don't know, as I said, what the federal government's going to want to invoke on provinces. They have floated some ideas but they have not yet been firm in respect of those and although some other provinces, predominantly those led by Liberal governments provincially, have signed on to something which is not yet clear, I, as you–as the member knows, will not do that. I believe that we should have a better understanding of what the federal government's plan is before we sign on to it. And so we'll continue to take the approach that we are proud of our green record, we'll continue to build on it.

We believe that more can be done. We'll be developing ideas and have been developing ideas around how we can do more and we'll look forward to enhancing Manitoba's reputation as Canada's greenest province in the future. Ms.

Marcelino: We will certainly be keen on following up on what the feds will do on–as far as carbon tax will be, and how it will be, and what the Premier's government will do with it, or if it will be part of the budget projections. * (15:20) Another question for the Premier: Has the government made any attempt in this budget to reduce carbon emissions in Manitoba, and does the Premier know if carbon emissions have at all diminished over the years? Mr.

Pallister: Well, I don't have any technical data with me right now, but I can say that we are one of, I believe, three or four provinces where carbon emissions have actually grown over the last few years. This, of course, one must remember, was under a previous government. That being said, I would also point out that certain aspects of carbon -emission reductions or increases are related to things beyond the control of any government: natural–certain natural disasters, as an example, economic circumstances which cannot always be attributed to the actions of governments, as another.

In some cases, for an example, there was a major fire at Fort McMurray last year. You know, carbon emissions, as a consequence, were a little different than they would have been without it. I don't think we should blame Rachel Notley for that. So, under the previous government, yes, the emissions did rise. And I'm not accusing the previous government of anything here except failure to keep their word in respect of reducing them Ms. Marcelino: Will the Premier sign a national climate accord this year? Mr.

Pallister: We'll have to wait and see what's proposed by the federal government and, at that point, know what we're signing. In the meantime, I don't believe in putting a signature on a document that I haven't had the chance to read, so that's not likely going to happen yet. Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): With respect to those same budget projections, do they include any projected revenue from when the provincial government may sign the deal for hea lth transfers, and if they are, what rate is the projected transfer estimated to be in the budget? Mr. Pallister: I welcome the member for Concordia to the committee.

And what we've been doing, I'll say to him –I hope this works for him –is, when I require some research to get back to him, I've undertaken to do that. If we can't get it right away, I will assure him I'll present it at the next opportunity, so–we'll dig, for the–am I on still? For the member, we'll dig right now, see what we can give as a preliminary answer, and then if we–if he requires a more fulsome answer, I'd be happy to get that for him. Mr.

Wiebe: If I can just expand on that for your hard-working civil servants there, is to maybe just ask specifically about any carve -outs for mental health, for addictions, for indigenous health, any other carve-outs that maybe the federal government has suggested might be part of a health deal, if those have been included in the budget projections as they stand right now. Mr.

Pallister: Just in the interest of clarity for the member, I'll just state that– because he's raised three very important issues to him and to our government– the federal government has assured us that there will be no–there's no threat of reducing our share of funds

1696 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2017 for mental health or home care, that that threat is off the table. And so, in terms of the allocations, those are in the budget lines that we anticipate we will have available. On the indigenous health piece, the member is aware, I think, that we have been n egotiating with the federal government on a health accord that we feel, in spite of–and I hope the member would agree– the proposal that transfers should reduce to half of what they were before–in terms of the growth rate of transfers, that they should reduce to half.

This is not a sustainable approach, and so we remain steadfast in that position. Nonetheless, with the removal of the threat by the federal government on reducing support for the Factory of the Future, which was a previous agreement, previous announcement, made by the federal government, previously committed to, which they then threatened to withdraw during the discussions on health care, they have subsequently taken that threat off the table. They've assured us now they are committed to that project.

Immediately upon them taking that threat off the table, we resumed our outreach to the federal government in terms of continuing the discussions around the accord. We have maintained from the outset that the health-care accord, as proposed by the federal government, is a dangerous and reckless approach to supporting health care. It actually reduces the federal government's commitments, previously made by a previous federal Liberal government, significantly. Over time those gaps widen, and the member knows this.

We had an agreement signed with Paul Martin back approximately a decade ago which would assure us–had assured all provinces –we'd get 25 per cent, minimum, funding from the federal government on health -care support. That percentage in Ma nitoba is now 19.23 per cent and forecasted likely to drop with the growing needs for health care in our province: aging population, new technologies, high special needs circumstances for certain cohorts in our population.

The member has done his own research on health care, and I know he realizes that it's a dangerous proposition to suggest that federal government commitment should be lessened at a time when health-care needs are growing. Every expert that has done analysis, every study that I've been able to obtain, says the same thing: this is not a good idea. Kevin Page, for example, who's the former Parliamentary Budget Officer –and I'd be happy to share my copies of studies with members if they're interested in reading them –Kevin Page has said that this is not sustainable. Stefan Alain [phonetic] says, C.D.

Howe now did a study that has arrived at the same conclusions. David Dodge, the member will be aware, has done extensive research on these issues –has said that in actual fact, over the next 20 yea rs with the aging population what the federal government is proposing would result in approximately 90 per cent of additional health- care costs having to be borne by provincial treasuries.

And this may not be –and I've had conversations with each of the pr emiers about this–this may not be as large a concern in some of the larger provinces, but for a province of our size and being so far behind in terms of addressing these issues, we really lag the country in terms of addressing the issues of health-care reform. We're addressing them as best we can, we're trying to catch up, but at the stage that we're at right now, this is –makes us extremely vulnerable to the challenges presented to health -care systems as a result of the federal government's mistaken practices in this area. Mr.

Wiebe: So, just using maybe last year's budget numbers as a starting point, maybe the Premier (Mr. Pallister) can talk about exactly what the percentage increase in mental health and home care and–I'm sorry, I didn't catch if indigenous health was also on the table there as well.

But if those –if maybe using the last year's budget projection as a baseline, if he can talk about what the percentage increase to those line items would be and if all of the federal money that has now been, you know, accounted for in this year's budget –we are, as the Premier said, expected to receive that, that's not off the table, it's not part of any threats anymore–is that all, you know, all the money in, going straight out to those programs? Can he, you know, maybe comment on that? Mr. Pallister: Respectfully, I'll address the indigenous, because I neglected to.

And the member had raised it earlier, and that was my fault–but on the issues of the detail around the actual allocations, he'll get far better answers from the Health Minister, I think, if he would direct them to him in Estimates. And I expect he's –I'm not sure if he's up right now, but he's coming soon I think–yes, so he would get better detail–better detailed answers. But we are–we will seek th e detail for the questions the member asked.

April 27, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1697 On the indigenous issue, indigenous health needs are significant.

Out of all proportioned population size, the–these–this is not a new piece of knowledge or information, but Manitoba, of course, with the highest percentage of indigenous peoples, is in a –is put into a rough situation as a result of the federal government–not just this one, previous ones as well– of their lack of responsiveness to the realities of the needs of indigenous people on reserve. * (15:30) Constitutionally, this is a responsibility of the federal government but, as far as addressing these issues, I would say –and this is not a political comment, this was a criticism I had of the government of which I was a member, as well–this is an area w here federal governments have been lacking in their focus.

And so, as a result, our provincial budgets are –have high demands placed on them to satisfy the needs of neglected federal – federally responsible, if that's a phrase, Mr. Chair – citizens. In other w ords, for things like kidney disease, diabetes –which someone described as an 'epinemic'–an epidemic among indigenous Manitobans. Costs for these services escalate and grow at a much faster rate than for the non-indigenous population– the general population. And yet the federal government shares very little, if any, of the costs as a consequence of their own neglect.

Their–over the years I have, and many others have suggested remedies apart from simply throwing money at the problem; let's throw money towards preventative programs. Let's take a look at really addressing the causes of these problems. Let's see if we can't reduce the pain of sufferers of diabetes, of kidney failure. Let's try to focus on putting a fe nce around the top of the hill instead of just an ambulance or a hospital on the bottom. Yet, the federal government has taken –not for lack of effort on the part of many of us –has taken an approach which is somewhat different from that.

So, as part of our negotiations with the federal government, we presented this case on behalf of all–I think all Canadians who understand that, disproportionately, indigenous people are needing support in terms of health care. And we've continued to make that case. And, as a consequence to I hope some degree, at least, the federal government has committed in their budget certain amounts as yet to be defined–to answer the member's question clearly enough for my liking–has said, generally, that it's going to allocate a lot more money for indigenous health. Now, we'd like to make sure a couple of things.

One: it's targeted to prevention; two: it's targeted on a per-person basis, not a per-province basis. Mr. Wiebe: So the Premier (Mr. Pallister) will know very well the list of capital projects that, unfortunately, have been cancelled in this–in his first year into his mandate. He'll know I've advocated for those in the House. I've, you know, talked with those communities who've–who are now facing uncertainty about the future of their projects.

And, you know, and frankly it's leaving gaping holes in some of the health- care services that we know we're going to need, and we're projecting that are needed in this province, including personal-care home beds, inc luding CancerCare, including community clinics. So we know that these projects are needed, that they are going to have an effect on the future health care in this province. They're all now frozen.

What I wanted to ask the Premier about specifically was b ecause of this freeze–and, you know, it's been undefined thus far how long this freeze or these cancellations will continue, whether there'll be any news –but what we do see in this budget is that there's a reduction of 11 positions in health infrastructure planning. And, you know, these are, presumably, positions where, you know, managers within the department could identify need, could, you know, identify priorities, reach out to communities and make smart decisions about where our health care capital spending should go.

And, you know, I mean, this would be one of the places in government you'd have the most forward -thinking people in our health-care system. They would be the ones who are looking to not, you know, just today and tomorrow, but 10 years and 20 years down the road in making smart decisions to invest in health care in our province again. Eleven positions gone from this budget. Is this–does–is this a one -time reduction?

Is this maybe indicative of the priority that this government places on he alth care infrastructure, and is it indicative of further cuts or further freezes down the line, and certainly no thawing of those freezes at the very least? Mr. Pallister: Well, let's start with a couple of things. First of all, $911- million deficit mean s we're spending $911 million more than we're bringing in

1698 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2017 with some of Canada's highest taxes. So I'd start with that. If sustainability means anything to the member, then he would care about this long -term effect of our decision making on health care. He would understand that it's not sustainable to, for example, continue along the path, the rocky road to adding further and further debt, and debt through further and larger deficits in the future onto our health- care system onto our populace. We can't c ontinue to do that, Madam Speaker, and pretend that we're protecting health care for the long term.

So, when he ask me questions about specific reductions, I have to ask him how sustainable he thinks our health- care system is if we continue to have a b illion-dollar-a-year deficits. We've already had notification of credit rating downgrades –well, invocation of credit rating downgrades that cost us tens of millions of dollars that doesn't go to health care. And we can't continue down that cycle. That flushing sound is the sound of millions, tens of millions of dollars going to a happy moneylender that's not going to building a new facility.

That being said, we also know that the reality of some administrations is that to avoid finding savings within their organization, such as we're doing by trimming the administrative growth that has occurred over the last number of years by 15 per cent initially, other governments simply raise taxes. So they push the taxes up on people, and really and quite frankly, a deficit is nothing but a deferred tax; that's really all it is. So I would hope the member is not content with the status quo in this respect because it isn't adequate.

Frankly, it borrows on the future for today, and that future is one we hope to be living in and hope our children and grandchildren have the chance to live in, too, and they'll need health care then like we need it now. So I think in terms of the initial part of the member's

preamble, it's quite a legitimate concern about capital budgets. I appreciate him raising that as I have the same concern. I think we have to–and we're very, very diligent about this –we have to remember to focus on repairs and maintenance. We're doing this now to play catch- up after some years of those areas being ignored . Investments were made in new facilities, and we will do the same. But I think we can't forget about the importance of repairs and maintenance. You know, tomorrow we will mark of an important day in terms of worker safety.

When we neglect, and when any government neglects to do proper repairs and maintenance programs, it's asking for trouble, and it's asking for the greater likelihood of a worker being injured or hurt or worse, killed. So we have really had to do a refocus on investment in those types of things, not just in Health–in the Health file, but in Education, as well, in a number of areas where roofs are leaking, where electrical needs to be repaired, where plumbing has been neglected and deteriorated, structural repairs, access improvements, a lot of these things.

So I know that everyone likes to see a new building constructed, at the same time, maintaining the buildings we have is also very critical. I'll read into the record a list of a number of the projects that we've invested in this year: $160 million was put towards capital projects in our first year, and $1.7 billion in total in infrastructure investments was made.

That's a very significant commitment and so, although it's easy to list all the projects that weren't done, I know that the member understands that many of those were committed to by the previous administration with no intentions whatsoever of proceeding in any–at any point in the next decade. Mr. Wiebe: So, I mean, once again, we're talking here about making, you know, smart and strategic investments into health care, which, you know, everyone I think can agree is an important thing to do. * (15:40) You know, the Health Minister often quotes Dr. Peachey's work, and the Premier (Mr. Pallister) will know that Dr.

Peachey said very forcefully in his report back to government that significant investments in health care are needed to achieve the results they're looking for. And capital spending is certainly part of that to ensure that the results are what they're looking for. Likewise, I mean this Premier has talked to very clearly in the past about his appreciation for preventative health care, about getting out in front of an issue and addressing health -care concerns and issues, you know, before they become chronic problems for the health-care system, and, you know, he talked about that during the election.

This was something that he was going to focus on and bring additional dollars for.

April 27, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1699 Well, instead, we see in this year's budget that the budget for Active Living and Publi c Health has decreased by 12 per cent, and, you know, this is a department that looks after things like community-led chronic disease initiatives, inspection services, prenatal, postpartum and early childhood development. They implement population health and health equity policies, so they're very engaged in sussing out those particular populations who are most at risk in our health-care system. They review –they, in fact, review and direct.

They, in fact, lead and co -ordinate the planning and responses to public health emergencies, so this is an important department within government. It's been slashed by 12 per cent. And so the question is simple: Why did the Premier (Mr. Pallister) think it was a good idea to slash an area that he himself identifie d was an important one to make investments in before the election or during the election? Mr.

Pallister: I have to say to the member I was born, but I wasn't born yesterday, and anybody who's reading these transcripts is going to understand that it's pr etty easy to go through a department with a $6-billion budget and pull out something that had a spending reduction in it. So, I'd encourage him to understand that really isn't recognizing the monumental challenges that we face as a province and as people in addressing the sustainability needs of our health-care system. But there are literally thousands of various programs that are important to Mani tobans. We can't continue to increase funding in them all.

What we've done this year is we're making a record level of investment in the Department of Health, Seniors and Active Living. We've increased the budget, over the last two years, by 7.9 per cent, but we are also cognizant that we can't continue to increase at that level (

a) given the reality of the federal Liberal government's commitment to reduce support here in our province, and (

b) given the fact that that would mean we would have to continue to basically borrow additional funds from the health- care needs of tomorrow to fund today's needs. So, you know, pulling out one or two programs and saying, well, they've been slashed, and using phrases like that doesn't recognize the great commitment we'v e made as a government and, in fact, the priorities we’ve identified in focusing on health care. I would say to the member, you know, when he referred earlier to capital budgets, the previous government established a capital cap.

They said because they r ecognized, and quite rightly, that you have to balance between capital investments and the ongoing program needs of your people, that you can't go too high on one or another category, and so they identified a capital cap. It was introduced more than a decade ago. It was raised most recently in 2010. Estimated principal and interest payments on that capital debt are about $155 million a year. As we go forward, the pressures on that cap are very real.

I would note that the previous government was told that the capital program, if they continued along the path they were on, would exceed the capital cap, that they would exceed it in 2017- 18.

And so what that meant for us was, because of the cap, quite rightly, identified by the previous administration, we couldn't proceed with all the projects they had promised to proceed with, which would have violated the principles they themselves established, which would have meant putting more borrowed money in place to build more structures at a time when they were exceeding their own capital cap, also, therefore, taking money that could have gone to services and moving it over towards capital budgets.

Instead, what we decided to do was to recognize the need to catch up on the repairs and the maintenance and the various investments the previous government had neglected, investments like, for example, in the Interlake -Eastern Regional Health Authority in Eriksdale, replacing the emergency power generator; in Pinawa, replacing the air conditioning chiller; in Gimli, replacing the air conditioning unit at Betel Home; in Teulon, installing a sprinkler system at the Goodwin Lodge.

The member may think that these things aren't important, but frankly, for a senior living in one of these homes that doesn't have air conditioning on a hot summer day, there's nothing really that matters much more. And yet, these repairs were neglected or ignored and put off and put off while commitments were made in a variety of areas, which now the member highlights as being cuts when, in fact, they were never intended to be proceeded with in the first place.

Even in the pre -election period, the member made all–members–not the member personally, to be fair, but other strategists running his election campaign for his party made commitments to build

1700 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 27, 2017 all kinds of facilities they had no intentions of building, because they didn't have any capacity with their capital cap, because they al ready had been told that they were exceeding their capital cap. So these were empty promises. They were not, as the member falsely depicts them, under our management, cuts, because they were not real in the first place. And frankly, they –those empty promi ses violated the fundamental principles of sustainable health-care management in the first place when they were made.

Why they were made, that just calls for a little bit of common sense to evaluate the degree of desperation of some political organizations at certain times in their history. But the fact remains that the sustainability of the health-care system is what matters to us, and that's what we're going to keep focusing on. Mr. Wiebe: So the –I mean, the Premier (Mr.

Pallister) will note that, you know, in my previous question, you know, when he claimed I was pulling, you know, random cuts and holding those up as the example, I think those were merely examples within the Department of Active Living which was, up until his government came into power , its own department and charged with preventative health, charged with making steps in preventative health that could save costs and deliver better care down the road.

So, when we talk about the importance of spending smart, smart shopping–I think the Pr emier has used that phrase before; I am paying attention– this is a perfect example of it. And the Premier himself has talked about it many times and, in fact, campaigned partially on the idea of preventative health being important. The Premier will know over $1 billion a year is spent solely on treating individuals with chronic illnesses.

This is a major cost saving opportunity within our health -care system; however, it only becomes possible when those investments are made, and what we're instead seeing is a 12 per cent decrease in the funding for the department that's charged with enacting this. What I would like to do –again, the Premier doesn't want me to pull out particular programs, but maybe I can just ask specifically about a commitment that he made and a promise that he made, and maybe he could give us an answer on that. Has the Premier –does he have plans to introduce a dedicated stroke unit in Manitoba this year? Mr.

Pallister: Unfortunately not, although, in the future, definitely. And I apprecia te and I share the member's concern very much about preventative health -care investments, and it's something I've certainly advocated for at the federal level, as I mentioned earlier, with respect to indigenous Canadians. It's something that I think is –as a general category, is a very important aspect of what we need to do. We continue to–a former Health minister in this province once said to me: I'm not really the minister of Health; I'm the minister of illness.

And, in fact, as the member knows, concept ually, a tremendous amount of our dollars are spent treating illness that could have been prevented with the right decisions being made earlier on. Mr.

Scott Johnston, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair * (15:50) But let me add that, when the empty promis es of the previous administration were made in respect of promising new facilities in a wide array of categories, at the same time as those were being made, the government –previous government knew that the capital budget cap was already exceeded, and they knew that they would, if they kept any of these promises, exceed that capital cap.

But they also knew that if they did that, they would have to not do a number of other things such as the things we've done in the past year: $150 million worth of projects around things that, though not as noticeable –not as conspicuous in their spending, not as illustrative, I suppose, of caring, as some might misinterpret –they are important nonetheless. In Gillam, we constructed a new EMS facility. In Thompson, we addres sed–began to address the scope of work required to fix mould in the hospital's crawl space. We repaired and upgraded existing heating, ventilation and air conditioning systems in the hospital.

We installed a dedicated year -round air conditioning system for the lab at the hospital and upgraded existing heating, lighting and ventilation. In Prairie Mountain, in Brandon, for example, we replaced the heat –the reheat system piping at the Westman Regional Laboratory. I mention these projects not to try to draw attention to our spending–rather, to draw attention to the reality that we recognize the importance of investing in maintenance and the prevention of further problems in our facilities, just as we recognize the need to address the preventative

April 27, 2017 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1701 aspects of h ealth care. Without the facility's maintenance being maintained, the ability to serve the needs of the people who need the treatment and the ability to protect the best interests of the people who work there are, in fact, very, very important. So I would mention these as some examples of projects that we've done, and, I think, I may have made the point that health, safety and security projects are a critical aspect of what we need to do on an ongoing basis.

I would also, as I alluded to earlier, mention that, you know, the improvements that we've made–over $30 million of actual specific capital projects in addition to these are–I can get into that list with the member. I guess I'm running down my time here, Mr. Chair, so I'll save that for later. Mr. Wiebe: Well, the Premier (Mr. Pallister) wants to talk about capital spending that he has done, and so I'd like to maybe just explore that a little bit more.

Of course, one of the central planks of his campaign commitment during the election campaign was for 1,200 personal -care-home beds; I believe that was over eight years. And I think they were quite happy to point out that this was, in fact, over eight years and if you just–all you had to do was take the money that was committed during the campaign, spread that out over 1,200 beds; spread it out over eight years; and oh, all of a sudden, you realized that the money that was committed to actually isn't enough money to build those personal -care-home beds.

So the Premier has offered that maybe there's other solutions out there, other ways that these beds could be built. I know, in my own community, our personal-care-home project has been slashed. I know the member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Ewasko) knows this very well; other members on the government side, thei r personal -care-home projects are in jeopardy. Maybe he can just talk about and maybe just commit to here today –this would be very helpful – just: What is the specific number –how many personal-care-home beds will be created maybe in the next year? Can we start with that? Mr.

Pallister: Well, again, I appreciate advice from anyone, and money-management advice especially is helpful. But I have to ask the member to remember that it does emanate from a political organization that ran our deficits up repeatedly , year over year over year, doubled our debt in the previous five years, got us two credit rating downgrades and a warning of a third.

And so, really, in terms of advice on money management, the allocation and resources, I guess I'd ask the member, if he wants to have credibility on that issue, to separate himself from his colleagues and identify his expertise, because it wasn't evident when the previous administration was in government. You know that there was an actual editorial here a few weeks ago in one of our local papers that said the NDP was returned to power in 1999 with a pledge to focus on improving health care, specifically pushing patients through hospitals faster to get them off gurneys lined up in hallways.

You remember–I think we all remember that: end hallway medicine. You know, I think it was an investment of $30,000 was going to do it or something. Gary Doer said the cap was off on health spending, and it now eats 44 per cent of the provincial budget. So why are Manitobans waitin g in the ER hours longer than most Canadians? The ER wait times have been the albatross around the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority's neck. The more it tries, the bigger promises, the deeper the disappointment.

Two years ago, the WRHA pledged it would cut wait times to four hours, on average, by this year, and there was no plan behind the ambitious promise, and, predictably, the WRHA cried uncle before the target date passed. Now, according to the Canadian Institute for Health Information, Winnipeg has the dubious distinction of having the longest ER wait times on average, close to six hours, compared with Canada's three hours, hurray, hurray. And this measure is just a symptom, of course, of malaise within the he alth-care system.

Whole basket of measures show Manitoba lagging Canada in wait times and the cost of health care. Manitobans have longer stays in the hospital. The cost per patient is much higher, as it is per capita spending–as is per capita spending on health care generally. And it goes on to talk about number of the things, and, actually, the member and I agree on the need for us to recognize that we have higher rates of diabetes and obesity, mortality from cancer, heart disease, stroke. We die younger, as do our babies; infant mortality rates are higher than everybody, apart from Northwest Territories and Nunavut.

The editorial goes on to say the Province cannot spend its way to fixing, through hospitals and prescriptions, what ails us. Health science is still

1702 LEGISLA

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	41-2-46b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	41st 2nd hansardpdf 46b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	cd6e9d52c4dfe44c983bbb4473cc0aa89c4fc070

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