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British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

4th Session, 37th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Monday, October 6, 2003 Morning Sitting Volume 16, Number 8 THE HONOURABLE CLAUDE RICHMOND, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Honourable Iona Campagnolo 4TH SESSION, 37TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Claude Richmond EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations ..................................................................................................... Hon.

Greg Halsey-Brandt Deputy Premier and Minister of Education............................................................................................................................. Hon. Christy Clark Minister of Advanced Education................................................................................................................................................ Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries..................................................................................................................... Hon.

John van Dongen Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Treaty Negotiations..................................................................................... Hon. Geoff Plant Minister of Children and Family Development ..................................................................................................................... Hon. Gordon Hogg Minister of State for Early Childhood Development...................................................................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Minister of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services ..............................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of State for Community Charter ..............................................................................................................................Hon. Ted Nebbeling Minister of State for Women's Equality..................................................................................................................................Hon.

Lynn Stephens Minister of Competition, Science and Enterprise ..................................................................................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of State for Deregulation ..............................................................................................................................................Hon. Kevin Falcon Minister of Energy and Mines...............................................................................................................................................Hon.

Richard Neufeld Minister of Finance.........................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Gary Collins Minister of Forests................................................................................................................................................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Health Planning .....................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Sindi Hawkins Minister of Health Services.........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Minister of State for Mental Health................................................................................................................................... Hon. Gulzar S. Cheema Minister of State for Intermediate, Long Term and Home Care ............................................................................... Hon.

Katherine Whittred Minister of Human Resources.................................................................................................................................................... Hon. Murray Coell Minister of Management Services ............................................................................................................................................ Hon. Sandy Santori Minister of Provincial Revenue..................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Bill Barisoff Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General...................................................................................................................... Hon. Rich Coleman Minister of Skills Development and Labour......................................................................................................................Hon. Graham P. Bruce Minister of Sustainable Resource Management ..........................................................................................................................Hon.

Stan Hagen Minister of Transportation..............................................................................................................................................................Hon. Judith Reid Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection ............................................................................................................................ Hon.

Joyce Murray LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................John Weisbeck Leader of the Opposition .......................................................................................................................................................................Joy MacPhail Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole..............................................................................................................................................

Harold Long Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ........................................................................................................................................... E. George MacMinn Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk ...............................................................................................................................................................Ian D.

Izard Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H. James Clerk Assistant/Committee Clerk.................................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ..................................................................................................................................................Anthony Dambrauskas Legislative Librarian ............................................................................................................................................................................ Joan A.

Barton Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Peter Bray Published by British Columbia Hans ard Services, and printed under the authority of the Speaker by the Queen's Printer, Victoria. Rates: single issue, $2.85; per calendar year, mailed daily, $298. GST extra. Agent: Crown Publications Inc., 521 Fort St., Victoria, B.C. V8W 1E7. Telephone: (250) 386-4636.

Fax: 386-0221. www.leg.bc.ca Hansard Services publishes transcripts both in print and on the Internet. Chamber debates are broadcast on television and webcast on the Internet.

Party Standings: Liberal 75; New Democratic 2; Independent Liberal 2. ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) ..........................................................................Shuswap Anderson, Val J. (L)............................................................... Vancouver-Langara Barisoff, Hon.

Bill (L)...............................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Pat (L) ...........................................................................Prince George North Belsey, Bill (L)....................................................................................North Coast Bennett, Bill (L) ..............................................................................East Kootenay Bhullar, Tony (Ind. L) ...................................................................

Surrey-Newton Bloy, Harry (L).....................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).......................................... Prince George–Mount Robson Bray, Jeff (L) ........................................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Brenzinger, Elayne (L)..................................................................Surrey-Whalley Brice, Susan (L)............................................................................... Saanich South Bruce, Hon. Graham P. (L) .................................................

Cowichan-Ladysmith Campbell, Hon. Gordon (L) .............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Cheema, Hon. Gulzar S. (L)............................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Chong, Ida (L) .................................................................. Oak Bay–Gordon Head Christensen, Tom (L) ............................................................... Okanagan-Vernon Chutter, Dave (L) ..............................................................................Yale-Lillooet Clark, Hon.

Christy (L) ....................................................Port Moody–Westwood Cobb, Walt (L) ................................................................................Cariboo South Coell, Hon. Murray (L) ..........................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)................................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Collins, Hon. Gary (L) ..........................................................Vancouver-Fairview de Jong, Hon. Michael (L) ........................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Falcon, Hon.

Kevin (L) ............................................................ Surrey-Cloverdale Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ......................................................................Comox Valley Halsey-Brandt, Hon. Greg (L)....................................................Richmond Centre Hamilton, Arnie (L)..............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) .......................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Harris, Roger (L) .........................................................................................Skeena Hawes, Randy (L)............................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Hon. Sindi (L) ........................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ..................................................................... Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon. Gordon (L)..........................................................

Surrey–White Rock Hunter, Mike (L) ..................................................................................... Nanaimo Jarvis, Daniel (L)........................................................North Vancouver–Seymour Johnston, Ken (L).............................................................. Vancouver-Fraserview Kerr, Brian J. (L) ................................................................ Malahat–Juan de Fuca Krueger, Kevin (L)................................................... Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)................................

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lee, Richard T. (L).........................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L)................................................................... Peace River South Les, John (L)............................................................................. Chilliwack-Sumas Locke, Brenda (L) ............................................................. Surrey–Green Timbers Long, Harold (L) .................................................... Powell River–Sunshine Coast MacKay, Dennis (L).........................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine McMahon, Wendy (L).............................................. Columbia River–Revelstoke MacPhail, Joy (NDP) ............................................................ Vancouver-Hastings Manhas, Karn (L) ..............................................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Masi, Reni (L) ..................................................................................... Delta North Mayencourt, Lorne (L)............................................................Vancouver-Burrard Murray, Hon. Joyce (L).............................................................

New Westminster Nebbeling, Hon. Ted (L) ............................................ West Vancouver–Garibaldi Nettleton, Paul (Ind. L) ...................................................Prince George–Omineca Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .......................................................

Peace River North Nijjar, Rob (L).....................................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Nuraney, John (L)..................................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Orr, Sheila (L) .............................................................................Victoria-Hillside Penner, Barry (L)......................................................................... Chilliwack-Kent Plant, Hon. Geoff (L) ........................................................... Richmond-Steveston Reid, Hon.

Judith (L).............................................................. Nanaimo-Parksville Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ..................................................................... Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L)...................................................................Kamloops Roddick, Valerie (L)............................................................................ Delta South Sahota, Patty (L).......................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Santori, Hon. Sandy (L) .............................................. West Kootenay–Boundary Stephens, Hon.

Lynn (L) ........................................................................... Langley Stewart, Ken (L)........................................................ Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Stewart, Richard (L)........................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Suffredine, Blair F. (L)..................................................................Nelson-Creston Sultan, Ralph (L) .........................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Thorpe, Hon.

Rick (L)............................................................Okanagan-Westside Trumper, Gillian (L)..................................................................Alberni-Qualicum van Dongen, Hon. John (L)..................................................Abbotsford-Clayburn Visser, Rod (L)...................................................................................North Island Weisbeck, John (L).......................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Whittred, Hon. Katherine (L)....................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wilson, John (L)..............................................................................Cariboo North Wong, Patrick (L)..............................................................Vancouver-Kensington LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn ........................................................ Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman................................................Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum ........................................................................

Gillian Trumper Bulkley Valley–Stikine ................................................................ Dennis MacKay Burnaby North................................................................................ Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds.............................................................................. Patty Sahota Burnaby-Willingdon ........................................................................John Nuraney Burquitlam............................................................................................

Harry Bloy Cariboo North..................................................................................... John Wilson Cariboo South........................................................................................Walt Cobb Chilliwack-Kent ................................................................................

Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas ....................................................................................John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke .....................................................Wendy McMahon Comox Valley .............................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville............................................................... Richard Stewart Cowichan-Ladysmith .........................................................Hon. Graham P.

Bruce Delta North.............................................................................................Reni Masi Delta South...................................................................................Valerie Roddick East Kootenay .....................................................................................Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin .................................................................... Arnie Hamilton Fort Langley–Aldergrove....................................................... Hon.

Rich Coleman Kamloops ......................................................................... Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson.......................................................... Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country .................................................................John Weisbeck Kelowna-Mission ...................................................................Hon. Sindi Hawkins Langley.................................................................................. Hon. Lynn Stephens Malahat–Juan de Fuca.......................................................................

Brian J. Kerr Maple Ridge–Mission ......................................................................Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows............................................................... Ken Stewart Nanaimo .............................................................................................Mike Hunter Nanaimo-Parksville.....................................................................Hon. Judith Reid Nelson-Creston......................................................................... Blair F.

Suffredine New Westminster .................................................................... Hon. Joyce Murray North Coast .......................................................................................... Bill Belsey North Island.......................................................................................... Rod Visser North Vancouver–Lonsdale ........................................... Hon. Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour ..............................................................

Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head......................................................................... Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon .......................................................................Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside................................................................... Hon. Rick Thorpe Peace River North ...............................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South ..........................................................................Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley...................................................... Hon.

Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain......................................................Karn Manhas Port Moody–Westwood ...........................................................Hon. Christy Clark Powell River–Sunshine Coast............................................................Harold Long Prince George North ................................................................................. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson................................................. Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca .................................................................

Paul Nettleton Richmond Centre ..........................................................Hon. Greg Halsey-Brandt Richmond East ............................................................................ Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ...................................................................Hon. Geoff Plant Saanich North and the Islands..................................................Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South...................................................................................... Susan Brice Shuswap ................................................................................

Hon. George Abbott Skeena ............................................................................................... Roger Harris Surrey-Cloverdale ....................................................................Hon. Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers.....................................................................Brenda Locke Surrey-Newton ..................................................................................Tony Bhullar Surrey–Panorama Ridge................................................... Hon. Gulzar S.

Cheema Surrey-Tynehead .............................................................................Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley ........................................................................ Elayne Brenzinger Surrey–White Rock................................................................. Hon. Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard .................................................................. Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview..................................................................Hon. Gary Collins Vancouver-Fraserview .....................................................................

Ken Johnston Vancouver-Hastings......................................................................... Joy MacPhail Vancouver-Kensington .................................................................... Patrick Wong Vancouver-Kingsway............................................................................ Rob Nijjar Vancouver-Langara...................................................................... Val J. Anderson Vancouver–Mount Pleasant .............................................Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey..................................................... Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena ............................................................. Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill ...............................................................................Jeff Bray Victoria-Hillside.....................................................................................Sheila Orr West Kootenay–Boundary ......................................................Hon. Sandy Santori West Vancouver–Capilano ............................................................... Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi................................................... Hon.

Ted Nebbeling Yale-Lillooet .....................................................................................Dave Chutter

CONTENTS Monday, October 6, 2003 Morning Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Tributes ....................................................................................................................... .............................................................. 7135 Nicole Rolko Hon. G. Hogg Private Members' Statements .................................................................................................... ............................................. 7135 Trial by fire K. Krueger P. Wong Forest fires — i.e., Chilcotin W. Cobb B. Locke Communities' response to forest fires T. Christensen Hon. S.

Hawkins Reducing fuel loads in low elevation forests B. Bennett Hon. G. Bruce Motions on Notice.............................................................................................................. ...................................................... 7144 Alternative energy sources and development of renewable energy technology (Motion 57) B. Belsey B. Penner D. Jarvis R. Visser B. Bennett P. Bell J. Bray

7135 MONDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2003 The House met at 10:04 a.m. Prayers. [1005] Tributes NICOLE ROLKO Hon. G.

Hogg: Yesterday I had the honour of at- tending the celebration of life for a wonderful young British Columbian, a young woman who had a pro- found impact on everyone she met; a young woman whose hug and smile and atti tude each set the stan- dard; a young woman who changed her parents, her friends, her school; a young woman whose life had a profound influence on the community living move- ment in British Columbia; a woman whose motto was: "It's all in your attitude, baby ." I ask this House, indeed this province, to join in recognizing the wonderful life of Nicole Rolko, a woman who made a difference.

We can each learn a great deal from the example she set. Private Members' Statements TRIAL BY FIRE K. Krueger: I rise today to speak about a topic that has impacted pretty much every one of my constituents in the North Thompson Valley: the 2003 fire season. As you well know, it's been a very tough couple of months for the people in the North and South Thompson val- leys and for many fire victims throughout British Co- lumbia. We've seen Mother Nature at her absolute worst — vicious, dangerous and unforgiving.

I'll never forget the helpless feeling I had on August 1 when we first began hearing that the wildfires were rapidly approaching the communities of Barriere and Louis Creek. The firefighters were throwing everything they had at the fires, but the blaze was just too wildly powerful to control. The sheer size and heat of the fires at times made them too dangerous to fight. For a while we thought we might lose the entire community of Barriere. Close to 4,000 people were evacuated in the valley, and all we could do was pray.

From McLure to Barriere's town limits a handful of volunteer firefighters led by fire chief Al Kirkwood, some forestry personnel and some RCMP stood their ground for as long as they could to save the homes of their friends and families. They fought with everything they had that night, saving homes and businesses be- fore being completely surrounded by flames. Eventu- ally, in

an act of desperation, they drove through a wall of flames and left the town to its fate. As one resident said in a local newspaper later: "They are the heroes of this town. This was what you call a hell fire. They stood their ground, and they saved this town." I wish I could stand here today and say the same thing about Louis Creek. The community was de- stroyed that night, including its major employer: the local Tolko sawmill. We have since learned that Tolko will not be rebuilding its plant in the North Thompson Valley, making the 2003 fire season even more devastating.

The Premier acted very swiftly to declare a state of emergency, and he and I toured the area in the days after the blaze was turned away. It was miraculous the way that blaze did turn away from Barriere. The local regional district director, Bill Kershaw, referred to it as like the parting of the Red Sea. That's the way the fire looked on the infrared ph otographs the next morning when we saw how it had gone around the town.

It had to jump the North Thompson River twice to go around Barriere the way it did, and 800 homes were saved as a r e s u l t o f a n a n s w e r t o p r a y e r a n d t h e h a r d e f f o r t s o f those firefighters. It is difficult to describe or even understand the random destruction in the fire's wake, however. Some houses were little more than dust, yet next to them stood houses almost unscathed. As the lost community smouldered, we were grateful that the Canadian mili- tary rushed to the rescue of the valley.

It was comfort- ing knowing that help was on the way from our sol- diers, but I couldn't help thinking how much our valley did resemble a war zone. We know our valley has changed forever. [1010] However, despite the feeling of helplessness we had against the fires, the people of the North Thomp- son Valley quickly learned that they were not alone. Donations and acts of kindness began pouring in from all over the province.

This is what I want to focus my comments on now, because the people of the North Thompson Valley have been truly blessed with the support they have received from British Columbians and others from outside th e province, and I know vic- tims of the Okanagan Mountain fire have also received some incredible support from the kindness of others. Shortly after the blaze, George Evans and Derek John- son, businessmen from Kaml oops, went down to the bank and launched the No rth Thompson Relief Fund. Their initial goal was to raise $200,000.

I don't think any o f u s i m a g i n e d h o w q u i c k l y t h a t g o a l w o u l d b e s h a t - tered. Indeed, many people thought it was reaching too high. Then they set another goal — a million dollars — and it wasn't long before that goal was reached. Today the North Thompson Relief Fund has raised more than $2.5 million, and I know they are not done yet. It's impossible for me to na me all of the groups and all of the individuals who have gi ven so much to help fire victims in British Columbia. I want to thank each and every one of them, whether they could afford to give a dollar or $10 or $1,000.

Many gave that and a whole lot more. Every penny is going to people who really need it. However, I want to tell you about some of the sto- ries I have heard and read about over the last few months to put in perspective the cross-section of those who have donated whatever they could. I'll never for- get reading about a four-year-old Kamloops boy who went door to door collecting donations in his neighbourhood. He raised $14.58 and donated it to the

7136 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2003 relief fund. Two little girls aged four and six raised $12.59 by selling lemonade and then emptied their piggy banks to donate a total of $62. Those young chil- dren exemplify the generosi ty and kindness that so many British Columbians have shown. There are a number of other unique and innovative donations that have been made, which I'll touch on a little later. There is one group that I want to recognize now, because their donation was particularly touching.

My colleague the member for Vancouver-Kensington called me a while back and asked how he could help and how Chinese people in the lower mainland could help. I told him the needs of people in the North Thompson, and he didn't he sitate. Together with phi- lanthropist Johnny Fong, he pooled support from the Vancouver Chinese community and made the largest single donation thus far to the North Thompson relief fund: $250,000. But they did more than just give money. The Van- couver Chinese community has embraced the people of the North Thompson Valley.

A delegation of 30 Chi- nese community members came to the North Thomp- son Valley to see the fire devastation firsthand. They met firefighters. They came to a public meeting I was holding and met victims and other residents, who stood and gave them a series of standing ovations. The gratitude is very genuine, and the love that people feel — victims of this fire, including all those who are eco- nomic victims of the fire — is very real. The Vancouver Chinese community did more than give money, and I believe this is fair to say about everyone who has do- nated to fire victims around the province.

They have given their friendship, their love and their tangible support. I thank the member for Vancouver- Kensington, who will expand on the generous spirit of his community. P. Wong: Through you, Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. colleague for his remarks. All of us in this House know what a difficult summer it has been in B.C.'s heartlands and espe cially in Louis Creek and Barriere, witnessing one of th e worst forest fires in our memory. I travelled to Kaml oops recently, touring the destruction site and lending support to our hon. col- league from Kamloops–Nort h Thompson.

Despite the recent tragedy, people in the area greeted us warmly. But even with the forest fires, I am constantly amazed at the resolve of people to make the most of a difficult situation — to contribute time, food, equipment, money and other necessities and to assist those in need. I had the honour of working with a number of con- cerned citizens from the lower mainland to raise funds for the fire victims. In Augu st representatives from the Chinese community in Vancouver formed the We Love B.C. Campaign to raise fu nds. Mr. Johnny Fong, noted businessman and philanthropist, and I co-chaired the committee.

A fundraising dinner and other events raised over a quarter of a million dollars. [1015] On September 20 we travelled to Kamloops and Barriere to present the cheque and meet many families affected by the fires. Please let me thank the Canada China Business Association, the Chinese Benevolent Association of Vancouver, the Chinese Cultural Centre, the Chinese Federation of Commerce, the Richmond Asia Pacific Business Association, SUCCESS and the Vancouver Chinatown Merchants Association.

Our generous donors include Allied Holdings Ltd., Van- couver Film and Television Artists Society, Tzu Chi Foundation of Canada and International Sources Ltd. and CCF Community Care Foundation. However, the names are too numerous to list them all here. Without their support we would not have been able to raise these funds. However, our work will continue. Last week Commander Al Guatoco from the McLure fire department travelled to Richmond and Vancouver selling T-shirts. The proceeds are going to the fire relief fund.

In my speech in Kamloops and McLure, I talked about rebuilding a community, which is not an easy task. The residents will need determination and will need to rely on each other and all British Columbians. I urge my hon. colleagues to continue to support the relief efforts. If there is a silver lining in this tragedy, it is that people do care what happens in other communities, neighbourhoods and homes around the province. They will do whatever they can to help. The tragedy has brought different regions of our province closer to- gether.

The Chinese community and all of us will co- operate in rebuilding the vibr ant communities of B.C.'s heartlands. K. Krueger: I thank the member for Vancouver- Kensington for his comments and for his kindness and generosity of spirit, and I thank all the Chinese people who have exhibited the same in this crisis and in their response to it. As I said earlier, the donations have come in a vari- ety of forms from a variety of locations. A convoy from the community of 100 Mile House came to the North Thompson last month bringing clothes, household ne- cessities and a cheque for $34,000. Farmers from near St.

Paul, Alberta, recently brought eight cows and a steer to the North Thompson. Most of the evacuees lost all their frozen meat after the valley lost power due to the fires, so this beef is tremendously appreciated. We all know how British Columbians like to support the Canadian beef industry. Right now we are also working with Alberta farm- ers who have set aside 400 tonnes of hay and are delivering it themselves to help ranchers in our area. Then there are the celebrities who have reached out to fire victims. Donations have come from the likes of Kamloops-born NHLers Mark Recchi and Murray Baron.

Music stars such as Cher have made donations and donated their talents to raise money through char- ity concerts. Recently in Kamloops more than 20,000 people came out and donated to see performers such as Mat- thew Good and Chantal Krev iazuk. We learned last week that B.C.'s own Bryan Adams will be touring the

MONDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7137 province holding charity concerts for fire victims. Early last month RCMP officers arrived at the Kamloops Sal- vation Army with two five-ton trucks loaded with food, pet food, bedding, clothing, children's books and toys. I know the Salvation Army in both Kamloops and Kelowna has been overwhelmed with donations from across the country.

From the corporate community, which has donated millions of dollars in supplies and cash, to quilters from as far away from Nova Scotia, who last weekend handed out 250 quilts to Barriere residents, I really can't say enough about the generosity of Canadians. Those quilters were determined to provide a quilt for every bed that had been lost. The people of the North Thompson are a strong and determined bunch. I think all the fire victims and evacuees throughout the province have shown tremen- dous courage, strength and fortitude.

To all those who have donated to British Columbia's fire victims, I say thank you on behalf of the constituents of Kamloops– North Thompson. You've given us strength; you've given us courage. Most of all, you have given us hope and friendship. One day we w ill return the favour, if a favour is needed. Thank you very much. [1020] FOREST FIRES — i.e., CHILCOTIN W. Cobb: Welcome back, everyone. I hope you all had a good summer. I, too, wish to speak about the fires. This summer will probably go down in history as one of the hottest ever. In many of our ridings it was hotter than most of us would have liked.

In the throne speech the Premier indicated this was the year of the forest, and I can as- sure you that he did not mean it would be the year we would burn it up. Summer infernos have brok en records on all fronts. At the Cariboo Fire Centre we had 13 interface fires, 310 fires under one hectare, 43 fires between one and five hectares, 25 fires from five to 100 hectares and six fires over 100 hectares. The Tatla Lake fire was 1,867 hectares. The Mount Wotzke fire was 180 hectares, and the Bonaparte Lake fire was 1,500 hectares.

As well, there were two fires in parks between 150 and 180 hec- tares where no action was taken because they were in parks. The Chilko fire was 29,202 hectares. This was the largest fire in the province. It did not get as much me- dia coverage as others because we were fortunate that residents were only on evacuation alert, and some people relocated for respiratory problems only. The list I gave does not include the Venables fire in the Cache Creek–Ashcroft–Hat Creek area. I had the opportunity to fly over this fire, thanks to Morley Anderson from Ashcroft.

We saw the fire in action as it moved towards some of the homes in the valley. The fire was spitting sparks and embers over the town of Ashcroft and was successful in jumping the Thompson River at the Basque Ranch and threatening farmers on the other side. The Rhodes and the deRosiers, a couple of farmers, were out with their garden hoses until the bombers came. The fires cost almost 16,000 person-days and 6,400 air-hours between helicopters and air tankers. Provincewide there were approximately 12,758 per- sons, including local, out-of-province and military per- sonnel, fighting the fires this year.

And 2,500 fires burned 250,237 hectares, 334 homes and ten businesses. What we will never be able to calculate is the human suffering and anxiety for th ose individuals who either lost their homes, were evac uated, were threatened or had to leave their homes and belongings. As I said, the Cariboo-Chilcotin fires were some of the largest in the province, consuming very profitable timber and rangeland, throwing many out of their homes and behaving with very dangerous dynamics for the firefighters involved. I was told that one fire- fighter was busy workin g away when something caught the corner of his ey e.

He looked around, and there was a small tornado-like ball, about four feet high, that was starting a fire wherever it happened to touch down. Some said this was not a fire; it was a monster out of one of Steven Spielberg's movies. The damage these fires have caused to the forest…. The rangeland that the ranchers and wildlife depend on for feed is gone and will take time to renew.

I am happy we are taking steps to work on reseeding pro- grams that can begin immediately so that we can re- t u r n s o m e o f th i s l a n d b a c k t o n o r m a l b e f o re t h e f i r e - weed and knapweed take over or the spring thaw washes the topsoil away. The hot weather has also created a drought situa- tion in parts of my riding. I am also pleased the Pre- mier has taken action to assi st in cushioning the blow by relaxing some guidelines for rain permits while the miles and miles of burned fences can be repaired in order to keep the cattle within their designated areas.

We may not be out of the woods yet, so to speak, with record-high temperatures and no moisture so far this fall. We are going into winter with the same drought or moisture levels that were recorded in the middle of the summer. That sp ells a worse fire season for next year, if we don't soon get some of that much- needed moisture either through rain or a very, very heavy snowfall this winter. Now, I know fires are a natural occurrence and will continue with or without human assistance in starting them, but half the fires in B.C. have been caused by humans.

This is not a very good record, and unless we want another year like this one, people must respect campfire and open-burning bans, and take care when they are outdoors. Those indi viduals in cars and trucks I follow down Highway 97 every week as I go home, travelling back and forth, throwing their cigarettes out the window must stop. Campers and bush party par- ticipants must make sure their campfires are out when they leave. There are numbers of steps we can take to protect our homes and property, and I know with the efforts that are being made through the B.C. Fire Commission,

7138 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2003 we will learn what those steps are to ensure that we do not have a repeat of the 2003 fires. [1025] B. Locke: I would like to offer my appreciation to the member for Cariboo South for sharing the perspec- tive of the Cariboo-Chilcotin after this extreme and demanding fire season. Much has been said about the heroic efforts to fight the devastating fires in the Okanagan, the North Thomps on and the Kootenays. We now have insight into how powerful the damage was to yet another region of our province.

In fact, the largest of all B.C. fires was in the Cariboo-Chilcotin, and were it not for the expert fire suppression action in northern B.C., there could have been grave conse- quences in that region as well. The fires in the Cariboo had a personality unlike the fires in other parts of the province. There were vast tracts of timber and grasslan ds with virtually no road access, yet those fires were bearing down on towns, first nations reserves, cattl e ranches and rural homes. Structures were lost, but than ks to a war-like attack on the flames, none of them were houses.

This is a credit to the Cariboo Fire Centre's resources and the inte- grated firefighting force that they brought in to combat these remote and enormous blazes. Even fires far from an urban setting have their ef- fect on the whole province. We have lost valuable tim- ber. We have lost grazing lands. We have lost livestock. Ecosystems have been altered, and tourism has been affected. In a province that in many ways lives off the land, we have less to sustain us. I can speak for all heartlands residents when I say well done and thank you to the brave men and women who stood in the way of these fires.

Many were brought in from other provinces. Many were called to action through the military. Many just dropped what they were doing and joined in where they could. All British Columbians were behind your efforts. Coming from Surrey, I can't imagine what it must have been like to have your home in that kind of dan- ger, seeing and feeling the flames coming down the mountain into a neighbourhood. We live in a part of the world blessed by forests all around us, even in ur- ban areas like Surrey. That makes it essential to have a provincial emergency preparedness program, the envy of any in the world.

This summer we proved that. It can happen again. We face drought conditions in many parts of the province. The mountain pine beetle has wiped out swaths of forests bigger than some countries and left the trees kindling-dry. Our govern- ment recognizes these dangers. Our vigilance cannot waver, or massive fires like the Chilko Lake, Venables, Lamb Creek and McLure can occur again. If this drastic fire activity ever does occur again, we have a new col- lection of data, a new set of skills, many new relation- ships that came together as a result of this tragic sum- mer.

We also have a new resolve, as the member for Cariboo South discussed. It is the spirit of volunteerism and self-sacrifice that shone through. In every instance, whether the fire was heading for a tiny homestead or an urban street, the result was tremendous. That is the way God made British Columbia. That is the way that will carry us through in times of need. I have seen the pictures from around the province. I have seen the footage on television. I have been on the phone with my own friends and loved ones who were in the midst of this natural disaster.

Just last Thursday I spent some time with the Forest Service personnel and toured on foot the Strawberry Hill fire and saw by air the devastation at Barriere. It was my privilege to talk to people affected by the fire and people who rallied around their community in support of their neighbours. [1030] In my own community of Surrey we got involved not only by sending money and donations. Surrey fire chief Len Garis was immediately out of the gate to offer Surrey's support on August 4. We became committed to helping B.C.'s fire-ravaged interior.

Between August 4 and September 3, Surrey sent three assistant chiefs and 144 firefighters who rotated on their days off. We also sent four pumper trucks and our emergency mo- bile command centre. There isn't a person in the prov- ince left unmoved by the flames. The most difficult part to accept is the number of fires caused by human neg- ligence. As a government, it is our responsibility to absorb all there is to learn from this fiery summer of 2003. W. Cobb: Thank you to the member for Surrey– Green Timbers for responding to my comments and sharing in the concerns in our losses.

As she men- tioned, there were a number of volunteers, and that's what I'd like to focus in on now: the many, many peo- ple who took

part in the fires. First to the front-line heroes who, through diligence and hard work, were able to protect many, many homes but, more impor- tantly, were able to ensure that there was no loss of human life because of the fires. My thoughts go out to the families and loved ones of those who lost their lives in that helicopter accident. I a m v e r y pr ou d o f t h e p e op l e o f B . C . b u t , i n p a r - ticular, the people in my ri ding: 100 Mile, Ashcroft and Cache Creek. We had many people come forward dur- ing these trying times to help with their neighbours and their communities.

First, thanks to the evacuation volunteers from Ashcroft–Cache Creek who spent countless hours and register ed 23 evacuees from the Barriere-McLure fire and 83 from the Venables–lower Hat Creek fire, and made them all feel at home and comfortable. This group was also on red alert for the Lytton fire, but thankfully, evacuation was not neces- sary in that area. Thank you, Barb Shaw and Tanya Wong and your team, for a job well done. Also a big thank-you to the people of 100 Mile who organized and manned the evacuation centre for the majority of the Barriere-McLure-Bonaparte fires.

These volunteers worked around the clock and found ac- commodation and food for everyone. It was August 1 when Mayor Donna Barnett received a call from Bob

MONDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7139 Kelly, the PEP coordinator, stating an evacuation cen- tre needed to be opened. The centre was opened for two weeks with 1,388 evacuees, over 2,000 active vol- unteers and a list of others that were on call. The 100 Mile Ranch donated their facility for the animals. The businesses that the community assisted and the evacu- ees stayed in hotels, motels and many, many private homes. People in 100 Mile House and area opened their homes, their hearts and their pocketbooks. Not one person or animal went without.

Tourists stopped at the centre, one buying clothes for evacuees' children — there were five in that family. As mentioned on September 17, the mayor and citizens travelled to Barriere with 20 trucks and trailers of toys, furniture, food, clothing, bikes, washers, dryers and $35,000 in cash donated by the people of the district of 100 Mile and the surrounding area. I know the families and recipients were overwh elmed by this great sup- port, and I am so proud of the people in my riding for pulling together at a time of need and helping their neighbours. Thank you, everyone.

We are all proud of you and appreciate your caring. COMMUNITIES' RESPONSE TO FOREST FIRES T. Christensen: It's indeed a pleasure to be back in the House and to see some familiar faces again after what I think all of us can agree was quite a remarkable summer. Although it had its highlights, it was one that, on many fronts, we probably don't want to repeat. Most British Columbians are going to remember the summer of 2003 for a very, very long time. It's the kind of summer that we'll tell our children and grandchil- dren about in years to come.

Certainly for sunseekers and beach-goers, it couldn't have been much better. The sunshine still continues, certainly in the Okanagan. In the Okanagan, as summer approaches, we always hope for lots of sunshine an d look forward to spending some time at one of the many beautiful lakes throughout our region. We were pretty much having the perfect summer through July. The tourists were flocking to our area, as they often do, to enjoy the Okanagan sunshine, the golf courses, the wineries, the water sports and of course the hospitality.

I want to emphasize that all of those things continue to be there, they're available today, and they'll certainly be available next summer too. [1035] As the summer progressed, many British Columbi- ans read and listened to reports of the increasing fire hazard in our forested areas, but none of us anticipated what was to come in August. The potential for forest fires is almost always present through most of the inte- r i o r o f t h e p r o v i n c e , s o w e d o l e a r n t o b e c a r e f u l a n d watch out.

Fortunately, most of us are very rarely im- pacted by the hundreds of fires that occur throughout the province each summer. In the Okanagan-Shuswap corridor, we've experi- enced the awesome power of fire and its threat to our homes and families twice before in the last decade — first in Penticton and then in 1998 in the Salmon Arm area. Yet I think we were a ll surprised and shocked by the fury of the fires that impacted so many communi- t i e s a n d s o m a n y p e o p l e a round the southern interior part of our province this summer. It started, certainly most markedly, with the Louis Creek and McLure fires.

I remember hearing about those fires on the Friday and finding it hard to believe a fire could spread so quickly and cause such disrup- tion almost immediately. The next morning I woke up to news that a fire had started overnight between Falk- land and Armstrong — the Cedar Hill fire — and it became much closer to home.

While most British Columbians will remember the images of towering flames and charred landscapes that c o n f r o n t e d u s o n t e l e v i s i o n a n d i n n e w s p a p e r s throughout August, the people most directly impacted by this summer's fires — the people who were evacu- ated from their homes — will remember the incredible response of their communities and, in many cases, neighbouring communities that seemed to mobilize instantly to provide refuge and support. In my own constituency we were fortunate to not be evacuated, but Vernon was home to an evacuation centre for most of the month of August.

What impressed me most about this last summer was the spirit and resilience of the people who had to leave the comfort of their homes — often with very little notice, not knowing what was going to happen next and not knowing where they were going next. It's pretty much impossible to im agine the emotions that a person must experience in those circumstances — not knowing what is going to happen to everything they've spent their life building. We tend to take for granted that when we leave the driveway in the morning, we're going to come back to our home at the end of the day.

A forest fire is unlike any other natural disaster because it becomes an ever-present threat. It's not like an earthquake, a tornado, a hurricane or even a struc- tural fire that happens quickly and then leaves its vic- tims to deal with the afterm ath. Instead, a forest fire threatens our communities from the edge of town. While our firefighting resources worked heroically and often with great success to keep the fire away from our communities, the threat remains on the doorstep, ever present, with the fire taunting the people whose homes are so threatened.

This was certainly the case in Kelowna, the Thomp- son Valley, Chase, Cranbrook and in the rural area between Falkland and Armstrong just north of my own constituency. Fires started in too many cases because of human carelessness and spread unbelievably quickly due to the extremely dry conditions we had through- out the southern interior this summer. In each case, some people were quickly evacuated from their homes and others placed on evacuation alert — a state of constant stress where your thoughts must be consumed by: what should I take if I'm told to evacuate?

The largest evacuation took place as a result of the Okanagan Mountain fire, south of Kelowna. At one point — and this is hard to believe — over 30,000 peo-

7140 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2003 ple were evacuated from their homes. In many cases people who were evacuated in the first couple of days were staying with friends or family who were then also evacuated. It must have felt like this terrible wildfire was chasing them from one refuge to another. Considering the potential for chaos in those cir- cumstances, the evacuations in each of the communi- ties affected around the province went incredibly smoothly. The response of our communities was quite remarkable, particularly when one considers the many organizations that come together to play a

part in the provincial emergency program. People coming to the Vernon emergency centre were greeted by volunteers from the Salvation Army. They were then assisted in registering by volunteers with the Canadian Red Cross. Ministry of Human Re- sources employees, assisted by volunteers, were there to provide financial assistance. St. John Ambulance personnel were there to provide care and support. The RCMP's victim assistance volunteers were there to provide counselling.

The SPCA was there to find places for pets that couldn't stay with their owners and to help find space for displaced horses and live- stock in some cases. There were food services to keep everybody going, and of course, there were volunteers coordinating the great number of citizens who came forward to offer goods and services to assist the people who had been evacuated. I ' v e b e e n t o l d o f p e o p l e who took their vacation time at their employment so they could be available to volunteer to help those wh o had been evacuated from their homes.

Out closer to the fire, the Vernon search and rescue crews helped secure the areas that had been evacuated to ensure that homes under threat from fire didn't also face the threat of looting. Thankfully, with the Cedar Hill fire at least, there were very few reports of anybody trying to take advantage of the fact that homes were empty. Back at the reception centre, the ham radio opera- tors assisted in keeping communications on track and providing information.

In speaking with one of the reception centre managers, she told me the training provided through the emerge ncy social services was incredibly valuable in ensuring that, facing the sum- mer's wildfires, the emergency response was very well coordinated. [1040] Of course, the foundation of the provincial emer- gency program is the individual professionals and vol- unteers that come together to offer support to victims of any disaster. The Vernon emergency centre was quickly set up when the Cedar Hill fire broke out early in the morning on August 2.

People who were evacu- ated from the area between Falkland and Armstrong arrived at the Vernon recreation centre and were greeted with compassion, support and understanding. That Vernon centre had pretty much just been shut down after the threat of the Cedar Hill fire when the Okanagan Mountain fire started and the massive evacuation of Kelowna was underway, and the Vernon centre was set up again. The individual stories of how a particular volunteer connected with a particular evacuee and was able to say just the right thing or pro- vide just what that evacuee needed in such a stressful time are many.

I'll turn over the floor to my colleague the Minister o f H e a l t h P l a n n i n g w h o , I h o p e , w i l l e x p a n d o n t h e situation from her constituency. Hon. S. Hawkins: I want to thank the member for his comments. The Premier declared a state of emer- gency on August 1, and I knew that was serious. We certainly prayed for all the communities that were go- ing through battling the fires in their communities. But you know, at that time there wasn't even an inkling in my mind that two weeks later we'd be facing the same kind of emergency in Kelowna.

In the last couple of months I think I've learned more fire terminology than I ever cared to know — terms like "interface fires" and "aggressive fire behaviour" and "fire behaviour special- ists." These were terms I'd never had in my vocabulary before. I do want to t alk ju st for a m inu te abou t m y com- munity's experience with th e Okanagan Mountain fire. It's really hard to put into words how we lived in Kelowna for over a month through probably one of the worst natural disasters the Okanagan has ever seen.

As my colleague said, the summer of 2003 is probably one we'll never forget — not only because of the horrific and terrifying firestorm th at ravaged our neighbour- hoods, but also because our community was tested in one of the most trying and difficult circumstances I think we'll ever have to face. I believe our citizens came out of it stronger, and our community is probably an even better place to live. I've heard that in other com- munities that have been ravaged by the fire. There are so many examples of courage and strength and working together.

I really do want to thank all of the firefighters from around the province who came to help us. There were 61, 62 or 63 commu- nities that sent firefighters , trucks and equipment. To all my colleagues in this chamber, I want to say thank you for all of your communities and your citizens. You have to be proud of all of them, because they all stepped up to the plate when we had our time of need. I am especially proud of our B.C. Forest Service and forest protection branch for all of their efforts around the province and in the Okanagan. The fire is still burn- ing.

There are still hot spots, and there are 140 fire- fighters from the B.C. Forest Service that are still work- ing behind my house and up in the hills to put that out. I understand they're going to be there until winter comes. All of the emergency pers onnel, the ambulance and the police were top-notch du ring our crisis. Our mayor and our city officials were there for us and showed incredible support and strength. I have to say how in- credibly proud I am of the courage and leadership of our Kelowna fire departme nt under Chief Gerry Zim- merman and everyone involved in our emergency op- erating centre.

Certainly, the management and organi- zation and support provided by the Solicitor General

MONDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7141 and the provincial emergency program has to be ac- knowledged — and all of the people involved in fight- ing the Kelowna firestorm and managing the fire and all of the volunteers. My colleague mentioned people from around the province. I met people from Burnaby that were holi- daying in the Okanagan on th e first day of the fire. On the second day the evacuation centre was set up, and they were in there on their holidays volunteering at the evacuation centre.

There were people from the Kootenays, there were people from Prince George, and there were people from the Island who were volunteer- ing in there. It was incredible. My colleague also mentioned some of the non- profit agencies that steppe d forward, like the Salvation Army, St. John Ambulance and Red Cross. Again, ser- vices provided by them were very much appreciated. Our emergency social servic es under the Ministry of Human Resources, again, were top-notch.

We were all cared for. [1045] I have to say our Premier certainly showed his leadership and his caring and his support by coming to the Okanagan and Kelowna twice during the firestorm. We knew we had the support of everyone in the prov- ince when he visited the evacuation centres and con- soled people and supported us and assured the com- munity that the province was there for us and would help us get through our ni ghtmare. The Premier came again with the Prime Minister, and I have to say we really did feel that all Canadians were thinking about us. We had calls from across Canada during that time.

I have to mention our loca l media. They went above and beyond the call of duty during this crisis. At the risk of leaving some out, I have to say that CKOV ra- dio, Shaw TV, Silk radio, Castanet, Sun FM and CHBC TV were out there giving our citizens timely and often life-saving information. They did that on a 24-hour, around-the-clock basis when it was needed. I thought the coverage was incredibly good, very responsible, and the public was especially grateful. The media also started a yellow ribbon campaign for fire relief. That's a good thing. They do do good things.

Our auxiliary firefighters are selling Okan agan Mountain T-shirts for this fund, as well, for $15. Anyone who wants to sup- port that can certainly contact me. You know, I used to think that our neighbours lived across the street or beside me. I've learned, after going through the largest ev acuation probably in the history of this country…. There were 30,000 of us one night that had to leave our homes. I found out that our neighbours are in Vernon, they 're in Merritt, they're in Salmon Arm, and they're in Kamloops, where they were fighting their own fire. They took us in. That was especially comforting.

I was evacuated twice, and I think we just prayed for rain. It happened both times. I have to say how proud I am of the families that lost their homes. There are 238 of them who are now re- building their homes and their lives. If I could just give a short little example of courage. At one of the evacuation centres there was a teenager in a family who was asked by another woman whose family also lost a home…. Her kids were angry. She said: "Aren't you angry?" Th e teenager says: "No, I'm not." She said: "Oh, come on. Aren't you angry? You lost all your stuff.

Don't you wish you had it all back?" This is a 15-year-old girl. She said: "Do you know what I wish for? I wish we were the only family that lost our home so no one else would have to suffer." I'm sure her parents are proud of her. That's the kind of courage we're seeing in our community. We are rebuilding. We've got a wine festi- val going on. We're selling out, and I just want to say thank you to everyone for supporting us through this very difficult time. T.

Christensen: It's indeed difficult, given the time limits imposed on us in the House, to adequately re- flect what we've gone through in certain parts of the province through the summer. I suspect many of us could stand here perhaps ad nauseam and recall and recount to you the many examples of really incredible citizenship that we saw from our neighbours through- out the province right thro ugh August and continuing as we speak.

Certainly, what impresses me most when I look back over the last number of weeks is the composure of the people who had been told to leave their homes or who, in many cases, ended up losing their homes. I was thinking in terms of my own experience of a story in Vernon, when the Cedar H ill fire had broken out at the beginning of August. On August 2, I was at a bar- becue in downtown Vernon in support of the beef in- dustry.

We had people coming down there who had spent the day moving their stuff out of their house and certainly their livestock away from farms and, of course, spending a good part of the day moving their neighbours' horses and livestock because of the fire. Their attitude that evening seemed to be, well, they'd done everything they could do. It was now up to Mother Nature as to what was going to happen, and they should come downtown to support the beef in- dustry for the evening.

These would have been some of the same people that three weeks later were taking their horse trailers down to Kelowna to lend a hand in helping folks ensure that their animals were evacuated from the fire threat there. This sense of community is reflective of what we saw throughout the province this summer in response to the wildfires. As well, certainly I think if the re- sponse to these fires by citizens and communities right around the province is a meas ure of our province or is a measure of our communities, we have a great deal to be proud of.

Really, it's a reminder of what an incredi- ble province we're all fortunate to live in, and it's in- credible due to the genero sity and spirit of our neighbours throughout our community. [1050] The member for Kelowna-Mission mentioned a number of the things that are going on in that riding. You can't get a sense, unless you actually go to Kelowna and drive through. She mentioned the yellow

7142 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2003 ribbon campaign and how that had started, and you see nary a vehicle without a ye llow ribbon tied to it in Kelowna. The one that stands out in my mind is pass- ing a city of Kelowna truck where they had taken one of those big styrofoam noodles that you have in the pool with your kids, and they had tied it around the antenna so it sort of stood out. You could see it from about a mile away. But if you go anywhere in Kelowna, there are yel- low ribbons on every street corner, almost, on every telephone pole.

There are great signs — particularly beside schools, because th at's where the kids are — thanking all of the folks who have done so much to help the community get throug h these fires. That will be the legacy of these fires in years to come. REDUCING FUEL LOADS IN LOW ELEVATION FORESTS B. Bennett: My remarks today are focused on pre- venting catastrophic forest fi res and specifically on the challenge of reducing the huge accumulation of fuels in our dry forests. When the Eu ropean settlers first came to B.C., the dry forests and grasslands here burned every five to 25 years.

For thousands of years, regular fires in the East Kootenay region maintained open grasslands and open forests at low elevations. Very large, old ponderosa pine and western larch survived the periodic fires because the fires lacked the opportunity to get up into the crowns of the trees on the plentiful ladder fuels that exist today in our forests. It's these very hot crown-bu rning forest fires that we saw this summer, the ones that can move up to 300 metres in a minute. In the Rocky Mountain Trench from the Montana-Idaho border north to Golden, forest fires have been fought for the past 90 years.

Society expects these fires to be fought immediately and to be extinguished as quickly as possible. However, as we have extinguished the natural for- est fires, the former open forests and grasslands have deteriorated into thick stands of dead or dying trees leaning against one another. Many have fallen to the ground, forming a mat of brittle, dry grass, bone-dry wood and needles — just about the way I would con- struct my little campfire. There isn't enough water or nutrients or sunlight to go around, so these trees re- main stunted.

This thick maze of mostly skinny trees has limited commercial value and has very limited purpose as an ecosystem. For the past two years our government has been working with ranchers, envi ronmentalists, hunters and forest licensees to restore grasslands, and we appreciate the support we have received from the Minister of For- ests and from the Minister of Water, Land and Air Pro- tection on ecosystem restoration. We are making some progress on restoring the natural grasslands habitat and reducing fuel loads, but progress has been too slow.

In my region we lose 3,500 hectares of open grass- lands to forest encroachment each year. Contrast the loss of 3,500 hectares of grasslands each year with what w e a r e a b l e t o r e s t o r e b y t h i n n i n g a n d b u r n i n g . O u r spring window for burning in the East Kootenay is one to three days for the whole spring season because of all the rules around burning: how, where, when and by whom it can be done. The local Ministry of Forests staff and the volunteers had over 3,000 hectares prepared for burning this past spri ng and were permitted to burn only 300 hectares.

Despite the best efforts, what we are currently doing is just not enough. My first suggestion is that government must work harder with local people to create innovative ways to reduce the fuel load through the rest oration of fire-maintained ecosystems. The regulation and management of Crown forests in B.C. is based primarily on a model that en- courages the growth, the harvesting and the processing of trees. As necessary as this rule regime is to a prop- erly functioning forest in dustry, these rules are not designed for getting rid of trees. Quite the opposite.

Second, more money is needed especially for eco- system restoration, which has the benefit of not only reducing dangerous forest fire fuels but benefiting the many endangered species of flora and fauna that pros- per in our dwindling natural grasslands. I see tens of millions of international dollars being spent in B.C. by environmental organizations.

Surely, grasslands eco- system restoration is impo rtant to the environmental community, and surely some of the millions of dollars in U.S. and European foundation money that flows into B.C. can be directed to ecosystem restoration and, coin- cidentally, remove huge am ounts of dangerous fuels from the forest floor. [1055] There are also some creative ways that the trees themselves can be used to pay the costs of restoration, if government can change its rules and permit ranchers and NGOs to use the logs to pay for the work.

Here are some specific suggestions around legisla- tion, regulation and policy that, if adopted, will reduce the fuel loads in our forest, and I want to thank Bob Gray from Chilliwack for most of these ideas:

(1) Step up enforcement of the fuel hazard man- agement guidelines that are already existent in the For- est and Range Practices Act.

(2) Characterize forest fi re fuels close to communi- ties as a legal nuisance.

(3) Stop forcing licensees to plant so many trees in areas that are at a high risk of forest fire and are close to communities. It makes no sense to stock a site into a future hazard.

(4) Borrow the Knutson-Vandenberg Act idea from the U.S. and retain a portion of stumpage in the dis- tricts to fund long-term fu els and silviculture manage- ment.

(5) Encourage the development of new markets and technologies for small-diameter trees.

(6) Acknowledge that much poor-quality wood cannot be sold in B.C. It is a fire hazard. It's going to waste. Allow it to be exported on the condition that the profits are reinvested in ecosystem restoration in the region where the logs came from.

(7) Use a portion of stumpage revenues to reduce the fuels in tree plantation s. This will mean removing

MONDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7143 planted trees, and it's probably going to mean that we'll even take some plantations back to zero. It will also require relaxation of other significant landscape management constraints such as mule deer winter range, cutblock size, parks and protected areas.

(8) In areas of high fuel hazard, particularly urban– wild land interface areas, relax smoke guidelines to allow managers to meet the intent of the Forest and Range Practices Act. I ask quite sincerely: what is better — five or six days of smoke during prescribed burns or the 40 days of thick smoke and the huge terrifying fires of August 2003?

(9) This is an important one. Quickly complete a system for assessing the qualifications of persons using prescribed fire and for certif ying them and look to the U.S. for a proven system. Th ey already have a system that works well.

(10) Continue carefully managing the risk of pre- scribed burning, but balance th at risk with the risk of catastrophic forest fires. Those are just a few suggestions that I hope will be helpful in taking us in a new direction. Hon. G. Bruce: Well, it's interesting, as I've heard all four speeches this morning, what an incredible summer it's been for all of us — and it's a testament to the people of British Columbia in how they've risen to the challenge and responded to adversity. You know, it wasn't only forest fires.

While we had the situation occurring in both Kamloops and Kelowna in the larger context of forest fires, in the northern Peace area we had floods, and then right behind the floods and the forest fires, at the same time — as was mentioned ear- lier — we had the whole beef sector being challenged — the challenge there for our beef farmers to be able to respond to that. The people of British Columbia re- sponding together as one…. In fact, several of my community fire departments were up in Kelowna dur- ing the real firestorm that was taking place.

It's also good, though, in that it has focused us in a very important way, in respec t to the forest fire issues, on the importance of our forests here in British Colum- bia. There's certainly the safety side of all of this — of the interface with our commu nities. Then we start un- derstanding the depth and the width, if you like, of the pine beetle and the devastation it's causing to our for- est throughout British Columbia.

Of course, all of this, the impact that our forest industry has on our economy and the importance of making sure that we have a healthy forest, both from the standpoint of fire protec- tion but also from the standpoint of jobs — as was just mentioned here earlier, the sad news the other day of the one industry that's not go ing to rebuild in that par- ticular community…. It's important that we first of all appreciate and understand the manner in which British Columbians can rise to adversity and come together as one right across this province for a variety of issues.

It's also im- portant now to focus on what it is we can do in another form, in an instance of maki ng sure that our forests are here and healthy for the future and certainly the aspect of forest floor cover and the issue of that in itself being a huge fuel aspect that can increase the size of forest fires if not properly managed. [1100] The points brought by the member here today are good points.

Again, it's individual citizens of British Columbia that are coming forward with ideas and sug- gestions of how best government and all those together can go about making changes and improving our safety issue, if you like, and the health of our forests. The other thing to not lose sight of — although we talked about the floods, we talked about the beef sec- tor, and we talked about these forest fires in these two major areas — is that we had forest fires, hundreds of them, throughout the provin ce of British Columbia.

I think it's important to recognize the many, many women and men who on a regular basis, year in and year out, go about trying to protect the residents and look after the forests of British Columbia when we get into that forest fire season. There was a very substan- tive and large job undertaken by the forest fire fighters throughout British Columbia.

The point to this particular issue that the member, of course, would be keen to know is that the Premier — through his leadership in both rallying the people of the province and then making sure that there's a full and unfettered review of what took place — has just appointed Gary Filmon, the former Premier of Mani- toba, to undertake this independent and comprehen- sive review.

Pointedly, a full range of issues that will be relevant to the prevention, planning and response, including such prevention strategies used for reducing the risk of interface fires, will be an important aspect of what his work will be in coming back to government b y F e b r u a r y 1 5 a s t o s t e p s t h a t w e c a n u n d e r t a k e t o make sure that we mitigate the dangers of forest fires to the people and to our communities in British Co- lumbia. B.

Bennett: I asked the member for Cowichan- Ladysmith to respond to my statement today not only because he's a great, great speaker and not only be- cause I really do want him to know he does have some friends. I asked him because he has a number of mills in his riding, and forestry is obviously extremely im- portant to him. I d i d w a n t t o j u s t f i n i s h b y s t i c k i n g t o m y t h e m e , which is the reduction of forest fire fuels in the forest. I think that has to be the lesson that we learn from this, so let me just summarize.

We need to recognize that prescribed burning reduces fuel loads and reduces the loss of life and property. We also need to recognize that some natural ecosystems in this province require peri- odic fire for maintenance of their ecological integrity — not commonly known in B.C., I think. W e h a v e t h e o p p o r t u n i t y h e r e i n B . C . t o d o s o m e innovative things with NGOs and the ranchers and the forest industry.

Restoring grasslands and open forest ecosystems has the benefit of not only reducing these dangerous fuel loads but re storing natural habitat for many of B.C.'s endangered species and for growing

7144 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2003 more grass on the range to feed more cattle and more wildlife — which, of course, is another benefit. Every challenge presents an opportunity. Our op- portunity in B.C. after this very challenging summer is to use this experience to create the actions necessary to protect our communities and to improve the manage- ment of our dry forests, in recognition of the reality that fire is natural and will always be part of our life here in British Columbia.

Orders of the Day Motions on Notice ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SOURCES AND DEVELOPMENT OF RENEWABLE ENERGY TECHNOLOGY Hon. C. Clark: I call Motion 57. [Be it resolved that this government actively supports alternative energy sources and that the provincial and federal government work towards developing renewable energy technology.] Mr. Speaker: Hon. members, pursuant to standing orders, unanimous consent is required to proceed to Motion 57 without disturbing the order of the items on the order paper. Shall leave be granted? Leave granted. B.

Belsey: It's my honour to rise in the House today and speak to Motion 57 and support what this gov- ernment has done in moving towards renewable en- ergy technology. [1105] People of British Columbia are well aware of the strong environmental lobby that exists in our province. This lobby has spared no effort in raising awareness to both individuals and government alike about the perils of global warming. Indeed, their voices have been heard around the world.

This environmental lobby has fought relentlessly to advance the global understand- ing of one of the most serious causes of global warm- ing: greenhouse gases. They have clearly stated their concerns, and now all levels of government and indus- try have come together to address these concerns. [H. Long in the chair.] One of the main culprits in the many greenhouse gases identified to date is carbon dioxide, or its abbre- viated name, CO2. There are other greenhouse gases that have been identified, such as water vapour. How- ever, carbon dioxide is the major concern.

CO2 has been identified as the primary contributor to global warming and is estimated to represent approximately 60 percent of all the greenhouse gases out there. Scien- tists have identified many sources of CO2. The air we exhale contains significant amounts of CO2. The wood we burn in our fireplaces is a significant source of CO2. Cars, trucks, planes, trains and boats all produce CO2. Although world levels of CO2 production are on the de- cline, we must all continue to be conscientious about con- trolling these greenhouse gases and the gas emissions.

I would like to address what my government is doing to ensure that alternate forms of energy are be- ing developed. B.C. Hydro, the British Columbia Crown corporation, has a group tasked by its board to study wind energy, thermal, solar, fuel energy cells, tidal energy — all these generating methods that will help this province reduce greenhouse gases. They have been looking at a number of greenhouse energy pro- jects on Vancouver Island, the North Coast and indeed around this province. The re sults are that wind, ther- mal, micro-hydro and ocean wave energy look very promising in the short term.

Wind energy is a clean, renewable source of electric power-generating and is one of the world's fastest-growing energy sources. B.C. Hydro has a current test site identified and will install wind-generating equipment in the near fu- ture to gather specific location data. The demonstration projects will be made up of approximately ten mega- watts of wind energy, six to eight megawatts of micro- hydro energy and three to four megawatts of ocean wave energy. B.C. Hydro's current policy is to promote clean, renewable, alternate energy sources like wind energy.

However, it's not only Crown corporations that are developing wind energy. There was a recent an- nouncement involving a B.C. firm, Uniterre, which has partnered up with a Europe a n f i r m t o b u i l d a w i n d farm just off the north end of Graham Island. Graham Island is off the North Island in the two islands that form the Queen Charlotte Islands–Haida Gwaii. This $1 billion project will see approximately 350 wind- generating units producing, at capacity, approximately 700 megawatts of power. This power may one day help to light this building.

This wind energy project offers significant benefits to the Pacific Northwest. It is a pro- ject in keeping with the environmental movement, a clean energy project. [1110] Not only do these projects provide clean energy, but they also provide jobs and opportunities. Wind en- ergy was the alternative energy that was often suggested by those who live on the Queen Charlotte Islands–Haida Gwaii as a viable alternative to gas and oil. To this end, the federal and provincial governments have listened to the concerns of the environmental movement.

Gov- ernment and industry are getti ng together to look at alternate forms of energy. This government will con- tinue to work towards a development of energy tech- nologies throughout British Columbia, including the Hecate Strait. Since I placed this motion on the order paper earlier this year, great progress has been made in the promotion of green energy, and I am co nfident that there will be even more coming in the near future. At the recent Un- ion of B.C. Municipalities conference, Premier Campbell announced a record purchase of green energy by B.C. Hydro: $800 million will be pu rchased in private sector

MONDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7145 — investment in 16 separate green power projects throughout British Columbia, netting an additional 1,800 gigawatt-hours of power per year to meet the energy needs of British Columbians. Not only does this invest- ment mean 800 to 1,000 construction jobs, it establishes B.C. as the continental leader of green energy. One of the 16 projects will happen just north of Stewart, B.C. The Coast Mountain Hydro Corp…. Hon. G. Bruce: Where is Stewart, again? B.

Belsey: Stewart is the top en d of my riding, one of the beautiful little communities that at one time led in mining. But now we're moving into something big- ger and better. Hon. G. Bruce: It's a great spot. B. Belsey: It's a wonderful spot. The Coast Mountain Hydro Corp. is developing the Forest Kerr run-of-river hydroelectric project, but the excitement in green energy goes far beyond these 16 projects announced by Hydro.

Earlier this year my colleague from North Island welcomed the investment of Green Island, a company that purchased and will transform the former Gold River pulp mill site into a major clean, green energy producer on energy-starved Vancouver Island. Energy is a large part of our future in British Co- lumbia, and green energy is even a very important part of our future. It is this government's commitment to green energy that led the Vancouver Sun to call B.C. the Saudi Arabia of green energy. Well, if this label applies, I will be working hard to make the North Coast the mecca of green energy.

The government has made great progress. Let's keep this momentum going. The North Coast wants to contribute to our province's success in this very impor- tant field. B. Penner: It's a pleasure to participate in this de- bate on Motion 57. First I'd like to acknowledge the foresight of the member for North Coast for putting this motion on the order paper and giving us an oppor- tunity to speak to one of the real bright spots in B.C.'s economy. It's because of this government's new energy plan that we are hearing so much about green energy these days in British Columbia.

Just to recap, the B.C. government's new energy plan calls for a voluntary target of 50 percent clean energy in terms of meeting our incremental demand for electricity in the province, and we're looking to the private sector for some inno- vative ideas. We all know, I think, from past experience that government doesn't have the answer to every- thing, and when you allow the private sector to use its creativity and its imagination, you never know what potential may be out there.

We are now finding out because of this government's new energy plan. [1115] The member for North Coast and I, in fact, just over a year ago had a chance to visit an operating wind farm in Oregon while attending the Pacific NorthWest Eco- nomic Region 2002 annual summit near Portland, Ore- gon. We went out on a fact-finding trip to see the Klondike wind farm, which had recently become op- erational. That's a 24-megawatt facility currently pro- viding electricity into the Pacific Northwest grid. It's indicative of what's been happening in many states south of the border.

Washington State, Oregon, Cali- fornia and Texas are all building substantial projects to harness the energy from the wind. I'm very pleased, as the member indicated, that we are now in British Columbia looking forward to the first wind power project this province will see. It's been a point of personal embarrassment for me that British Columbia has been one of the few provinces in Canada that, to date, does not generate a single kilowatt of elec- tricity from wind energy. Already, of course, Alberta does, Saskatchewan does, Ontario does, and Quebec does.

That is going to change because of this govern- ment's new energy plan. As announced by the Premier just two weeks ago, one of the 16 projects that's going forward under B.C. Hydro's call for new energy sources is the Holberg wind power project on the north end of Vancouver Island. This $90 million investment will bring wind power — about 59 megawatts of capac- ity, I think — to Vancouver Island, where, as most of us know, new electricity sources are badly needed. Again, I hasten to point out that, under the previ- ous government, the closest the NDP…. Well, the NDP never did develop any wind projects.

They talked about it but never did it. In fact, the closest the NDP has ever come to developing wind power is their cur- rent leadership debate. Th ey've talked about it, but we're doing it. That's the difference. I remember, back in the early 1980s as a high school student, one day for some reason I was checking my parents' mail, making sure they were keeping up on their payments, and I opened up a B.C. Hydro state- ment. Inside that B.C. Hydro statement was a little flyer talking about the research that was being done by B.C. Hydro in the early 1980s into the potential for wind energy.

Here we are 20 years later, and British Columbia still, as of today, is not generating any elec- tricity from wind. But we are about to, if this project in Holberg comes on line as is now anticipated. What is making this possible? Well, after decades of research, wind energy costs have come down, it's esti- mated, by about 80 percent over what the costs were just in the 1980s. So new technology and new invest- ment around the world have meant that economies of scale have been reached.

Whereas maybe just four or five years ago a large-size wind turbine was 660 kilo- watts — that was considered big — today it's common to see 1.5-megawatt wind turbines. General Electric and others are currently prod ucing wind turbines that can generate three megawatts, or enough for 3,000 homes, from a single wind tu rbine. That's a huge leap in the technology, in the ec onomies of scale and in the efficiency of these projects , and that's what's driving down the unit cost of the electricity from wind energy.

7146 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2003 I know there continue to be skeptics in what I call the status quo corners of th e electricity industry, who doubt whether wind energy is viable, but you just have to look around the world to see what is happening. In Denmark, for example, more than 20 percent of their total electricity consumption is already coming from wind, and there are more projects planned. In the United Kingdom they are installed to capaci- ties at around 600 megawatts and growing quickly.

I believe they say they're on line to develop between 6 and 8 percent of their total electricity needs by 2008 from wind energy. Some of those wind farms are being located offshore in the U.K. They're big-dollar invest- ments, and they're happening because the cost of de- veloping wind power is now competitive with coal and natural gas, and it's alre ady much cheaper than nu- clear. I point out, just for a moment, that when we're talk- ing about those costs on a competitive basis, the costs associated with wind energy, of course, are exclusive of the benefits in terms of non-emissions.

So if you were to factor in the external costs of other projects, wind energy becomes even more competitive. [1120] Of course, there remains the challenge of how you firm up that wind resource. In British Columbia we're ideally suited to take advantage of an intermittent source of electricity like wind because of our large hy- droelectric reservoirs that co ntinue to be owned by the publicly owned B.C. Hydro. By allowing B.C. Hydro to store more water behind their dams while it's windy, we can take advantage of that wind energy.

Then on th ose days when it's not as windy, we can draw down that reservoir capacity and generate the electricity we need through our reservoirs. So B.C. is ideally suited — more so than many other states or provinces — to take advantage of wind, and that's why I think the time is coming when it will really catch on here. The other thing making this all possible under our energy plan is the fact that B.C. Hydro remains pub- licly owned.

It's allowing the private sector to finance projects that they can't fina nce in many other jurisdic- tions, and that's because of uncertainties in the energy markets elsewhere — not in British Columbia. In British Columbia we continue to have a govern- ment-owned, but regulated, monopoly in terms of the provision of electricity to retail users, especially at the residential level. That monopoly position gives B.C. Hydro a lot of stability, a lot of security, in knowing that they'll be able to recoup the costs of any purchase agreements they enter into.

In turn, they're able to sign 20-year contracts with individual investors looking to develop these green projects . Once those individual investors get that 20-year co ntract from B.C. Hydro, that's treated almost as good as cash at the bank, and they can go and get financing. Without that security, with out that stability, it's doubtful very many of these projects would actually be going ahead.

As evidence, I point south of the border, where many projects that have already been permitted — and these aren't just green projects; these are other natural gas or other fossil fuel projects — have been suspended, mothballed or put on hold because of un- certainty in their market and the inability to finance new electricity projects that are merchant power plants. That's a big change from just five years ago when merchant power plants and IPPs south of the border were very desirable invest ments.

Then Enron came along, and today if you want to borrow money to fi- nance a merchant power plant, Wall Street is probably going to have you paying 20 to 25 percent interest on that risky endeavour. Contrast that with British Columbia, where under our energy plan B.C. Hydro remains publicly owned. They're entering into these 20-year contracts, allowing individual entrepreneurs who have perfected designs around green energy to go and secure financing so we can actually take advantage of that technology and bring that electricity on line. To paraphrase Tony Blair in England, I describe this as the third way.

It's a mixed system where we have both public ownership and entrepreneurial spirit involved in British Columbia in helping meet our growing electricity needs. It's tempting to again point out to British Columbi- ans — and I don't mean to dwell on it, but it is a matter of record — that the only new power plant built by B.C. Hydro under the NDP's reign of terror in this province was in Pakistan. That cost British Columbian ratepayers millions and millions of dollars.

There was no return on that investment for British Columbians, and of course not a single kilowatt of any electricity from a power plant in Pakistan is helping us meet our growing energy needs here in British Columbia. It's partly for that reason that today and in this y ear, B.C . Hy d ro is ex pecting to have to import u p to 10 percent of its electricity needs from outside of Brit- ish Columbia in order to meet our domestic load. That's not a situation I think most British Columbians would be very proud about, and that's why our energy plan does call for the aggressive development of new energy sources.

Simply put, I think it's a very risky strategy to re- main largely dependent on imported power. I would like British Columbia to become as self-sufficient as possible in a cost-effective way. That's why I'm so pleased to see that just tw o weeks ago there was this announcement that 16 new projects are going ahead, including, I might add, in the electoral district which I have the pleasure to represent — Chilliwack-Kent. The Pearce Creek hydroele ctric project will be the first small run-of-the-river project in my community, and although small in scal e, it means any environ- mental impacts are also very small.

I look forward to my constituents having a chance to get to know what small hydro projects look lik e by having this project literally in our back yard. I know there will be some other members wanting to speak, but I'll just quickly touch on something that may not be obvious to some people. A number of these small hydro projects, which are considered green en-

MONDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7147 ergy projects, are already un der construction. What the Premier announced two weeks ago was just the latest round, but there was a previous round. [1125] Following the 2001 election and the B.C. Liberal Party taking office in this province, there was a call for green energy put out in the fall of 2001, and directly as a result of that policy dire ction and that action, there are currently British Columbians working in a number of small communities and earning a decent income.

This summer I had a chance to visit the Furry Creek small hydro project just south of Squamish, and I was pleasantly surprised to meet a number of Chilliwack residents working on the construction of that small hydro project. That's just one example of how there's this ripple effect taking place with small hydro projects being under construction currently — in Squamish, in Pemberton and on Vancouver Island near Gold River, for example.

These are good projects, bringing good paycheques into communities and contributing to the local tax base, and none of this would be happening except for the energy plan of this government. So we're bringing local jobs, local taxes, into com- munities and, by the way, adding to our supply of elec- tricity, which as I indicated is starting to run a bit short for meeting our domestic needs. We need to get on and do more, and I'm pleased to stand in support of this motion put forward by the member for North Coast, and look forward to hearing what other members have to say on this motion.

Thank you for the opportunity. D. Jarvis: I rise to make a few brief comments about Motion 57. Without trying to be the devil's advocate, I would like to say that right now all we're hearing is wind power, wind power, wind power. We must re- member that wind power is interruptible power, and what industry in this province needs is uninterruptible power.

But there's no question that the search for alter- native power sources are not only advantageous to, say, the northern communities in British Columbia that need support, but it's a necessary quest for the whole of this province to search for alternative sources of power. I bring it back to the economics, not being an economist, but my own econom ics are that the living standards across Canada have soared these past ten years, with the aspect of standard of living. The stan- dard of living is based on the…. The easiest way to measure it is on the gross domestic product.

Now, the gross domestic product per capita is the normal meas- urement, as I said, and Ca nada-wide it's somewhere…. In the last decade it has increased by about 25 percent or about 2½ percent per year. B.C. has been the lowest province of all the ten provinces in increasing thei r standard of living, where we have had an average of 1.25 percent per year over the last ten years. But the most significant increase has been that of Newfoundland, and Newfoundland now averages a 5.3 percent increase of their standard of liv- ing.

That has ostensibly come down to the fact that their drilling of offshore oil and gas has brought in unbelievable amounts of revenue. So oil and gas — we have plenty of that in B.C. that we think we have offshore and needs to be looked at, and drilled and brought into the field for power sources. As the evidence shows clearly, the strong growth in Newfoundland in their standard of living and their gross domestic product has been offshore development. So we are now sitting here out in British Columbia, in last place, struggling, trying to get a little higher up on the totem pole.

We have all the potential to do so, but we have been holding back. [1130] Wind power to me is so mething going back to ten or 12 years ago. I can remember Bob Williams, one of the architects of the modern NDP party, saying that we don't need resources in British Columbia; we can import them. And that's how it started. Consequently, most of our resource co mmunities started going d o w n .

S o I ' m a l l i n f a v o u r o f t h i s m o t i o n t h a t w e should have alternative power sources, but I also think we should all basicall y not forget about the val- ues that we have in our land and under our waters in the way of oil and gas and minerals. We should not forget about them. R. Visser: I'd like to rise and speak in favour of Motion 57 presented to the House by my colleague from the North Coast.

You know, when we were elected to government, energy and meeting the needs of British Columbians from an energy perspective was one of the key princi- ples we wanted to bring forth and a piece of the private s e c t o r e c o n o m y w e w a n t e d t o b e a b l e t o u n l e a s h . I n some respects, unleashing that potential has taken some time. The private sector has needed time to make its plans, to look at the landscape, to be assured by the government that it means business, to build a comfort- able relationship with the ne w regulator, the B.C. Utili- ties Commission, and B.C. Hydro.

But they waited for an energy plan most of all. They waited for this gov- ernment, the minister and the Premier to unleash the potential of British Columbia with an energy plan. We did that, and now we're starting to see the results come forward. From my perspective and the people in my riding's perspective — the North Island — it's very important, and it secures parts of their future that they never had and, in some cases, they'r e not sure they ever knew they had. It's a surprise to some and an opportunity to others, which has given thei r communities a new lease on life.

One of the key components of this energy plan — and B.C. Hydro has already been able to make a com- mitment to have its new energy be from green sources — is that in the future th ey want the new energy they purchase in the marketplace from the private sector to be green — 50 percent of that between 2002 and 2012 from green sources. That's wood waste, energy conver- sion, wind, micro-hydro, hydro — all of those things. For a whole host of reasons the North Island — and the coast, in fact — has much of that potential. That's why that commitment on this government's behalf, on Hy-

7148 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2003 dro's behalf, is very important to the private sector and very important to those co mmunities out there that I represent. I want to start with one little project that makes the news once in a while but not always. That's the Green Island Energy project in Gold River. It's a company that came along with some investors from the United States, private sector folks and others, to purchase the assets — they have purchased the assets — of the closed-down Gold River pulp mill.

The company who closed the mill had the foresight to leave what they call the energy is- land intact, the ability to generate small amounts of elec- tricity in steam. Those asse ts were purchased by these folks, and they've put together a plan. What they want to do is help meet British Columbia's and Vancouver Is- land's looming energy shortage, issues that are on Van- couver Island currently today and that we have to start planning for now.

They want to meet that, and they want to come to Hydro in the next call to convert wood waste in Gold River into energy — into 100 megawatts, 50 megawatts — in scalable increments. You know, this energy plan, this company, this purchase and their future have given a new foundation to a community like Gold River. Their pulp mill closed down in the mid-1990s, and th ey have met every chal- lenge ever since then. They 've struggled; they fought back; they've looked for diversification.

They have fo- cused on that site down ther e, and now, after this long wait and this energy plan, they have a future. [1135] You know, the foundation for these communities is important. Not only is it going to be helpful that they have a new tax base, that they have a producer of in- come and jobs and economy down there, but they also have som ebod y that owns this place , who's interested in diversification on that site, taking what we call a brownfield site and turning it back into a productive economic generator. There are lots of things that can happen there.

There can be dryland sorts built because it's on the wa- ter. They can have fish processing facilities for the in- creasing aquaculture indust ry in the area. They can have shellfish processing facilities because of the in- creased aquaculture in that area — finfish and shellfish. They can sell the steam to aquaculture proponents and other people — whether they're new and interesting species like tilapia that are already produced in British Columbia or to smolt production for the finfish aqua- culture industry. They can have small value-added sawmills there, shake and shingle mills.

Other folks in that area who have ideas now have a place to go, a place to work and a place to do business. All of these things come from this energy plan. We have said to British Columbia and to investors here that if you are willing to risk your capital in this province, we'll enter into long-term con- tracts with you, and we will be a stable energy envi- ronment. We want you here, and we want you to build on those successes. I think communities like Gold River are well served by this energy plan, but that's just one part of it. They've still got some contractual obligations.

They still have to meet the next call for tender. They still have to produce electricity at the lowest cost for British Co- lumbians, for Vancouver Island people, and they have to compete against other suppliers. I wish them luck, and I think they'll do well. It is a competitive world, and that's the public interest that the B.C. Utilities Commission and the Crown have to protect. There are other things going on in Gold River. There's the McKelvie Creek project. That's in Tahsis, just down the road. There' s the Meares Creek project that's already underway.

It's a small run-of-the-river, and it's being installed now. The other part that's fascinating about this is that of the 16 new projects that moved from stage 1 to stage 2 in the B.C. Hydro call fo r green energy across British Columbia, four of them were on northern Vancouver Island. One of the biggest of those four was in Gold River: the Ucona power project. These people want to tunnel through a mountain up to a lake and out of that tunnel run an eight-inch-diameter pipe through a tur- bine and generate 25 megawatts of power. You know, those are jobs. Those are hard-rock mining jobs in building the tunnel.

Those are development jobs and construction jobs in building the powerhouse and in- stalling the turbines and co nnecting to the grid and all of those things. It's just an other little piece of hope and opportunity for a community like Gold River — just one more piece of that puzzle that's going to give them a new lease on life, put new tenants back in the mall, put new people into those houses and apartments there, and add to the robustness of that economy that suffered so much during the 1990s. I also want to talk about a few other communities — ones that we don't talk about much in the broader public.

Tahsis has a small run-of-the-river project that's on the list of those to go ahead from the last call. It's not a big thing, but it's part of their economy, too, in the future — a few jobs here, a few jobs there, and they all add up. I know the mayor and council in Tahsis are interested in having that project pursued. But what about Zeballos? They don't talk much about Zeballos. It's at the end of a long gravel road on the west coast. They, too, have a run-of-the-river project in Zeballos L a k e t h a t i s o n e o f t h e f o u r t h a t j u s t m a d e t h i s l a s t shortlist of 16.

There's some work to do there to make sure it works, but they're job ge nerators, they're economy generators, and they're tax-base generators for those local communities. I think those folks in Zeballos — as they work through the envi ronmental issues, as they work through the future of this project and as they realize the benefits of it — are going to be well served. [1140] Maybe the one that's attracting some of the most attention — certainly, here today in the House and certainly in the news — is in a little community called Holberg. I visit Holberg every once in a while.

I always have done ever since I was a kid. I'm very fond of that place. They're a logging town. They used to be military. A Canadian Forces station was there, CFS Holberg.

MONDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7149 That closed down decades ago, and now they're a log- ging town with Western Forest Products in the heart of TFL 6. Out of the blue for most of them, I think, comes this project where they want to build 30 to 35 wind towers to generate 50 megawatts of electricity for Vancouver Island. Holberg is known for its wind. All of us that live on Vancouver Island, especially northern Vancou- ver Island, know that part of the world is windy. Day in, day out, something is blowing there.

I think every- body has always had in the back of their mind that there was some potential there and that if we could just make the numbers work, we would realize an oppor- tunity on our land base. I think now's the time. I think the energy plan and the fact that over the last decade, the cost of generating those kilowatts with wind power has dropped by as much as 80 percent in some reports, and the cost of installation and mainte- nance, all of that, has come down, and the price that places are willing to pay, plus the wind energy credits from the federal government…. Those have now made it viable.

They have now made companies like Stothert in their joint venture able to access this call, able to move this issue forward and able to provide good, re- newable energy for Vancouver Island and jobs and taxes and economy for communities like Holberg. It's about diversification. It's about being part of a government that can look at everything. Everything is on the table. We can talk about wind and do something about it. We're not just going to talk about wood waste; we're going to do something about it. We're not going to talk about run-of-the-river or micro-hydro and other things.

We're going to let something happen there. These are important things . They're all small, but they're important. Thirty-five wind towers, two…. What are they? From the base to the tip of the blade, standing upright, they're 200-or-so metres. It's a big deal in a town like Holberg. It's a really big deal. You know, I visited a school there last spring, and then they came down to visit me. In fact, this is an interesting note. I haven't seen the numbers yet, but last time they talked to me a while back, they were experiencing the largest enrolment growth in British Columbia in a small school.

They had six new kindergarten kids coming in. They had only nine in the whole class in all grades up to grade 8, so that's a pretty significant enrolment increase for Holberg. These things are important. You know, we have to talk about shellfish aquaculture. We have to talk about finfish aquaculture. We have to talk about renewing the forest industry. We have to talk about new mining opportunities, new ventures. I think the energy sector is one that we ignored for years. It's a place we didn't pay attention to. It's investment that we let sit on the sidelines.

It's investment dollars that passed British C olu m bia by and went to places l ik e Albert a, went to Washington State, went to Ca lifornia, went to a whole bunch of other jurisdictions and never came here be- cause for years we never trusted the private sector. For years we never believed in the power of the investment dollar, and for years we thought the gov- ernment could do it all. All we realized is that, frankly, government does it badly — all that it does — some days. So let's enjoy this small renaissance in investment in the energy industry. Let' s let these communities en- joy some of their successes.

Let's let them generate those jobs and those taxes in their future. Let them build those foundations upon which other things flow. Let them have these sites that can create other oppor- tunities for investment, whether it's in log-sorting, value-added forestry, mining opportunities or other things. Let them have those successes. That's what this government strategy is all about. That's what the en- ergy plan is about, that's where those jobs are, and that's where the future is. [1145] I'd like to thank the member for North Coast for bringing this timely motion forward.

I'm excited about the future on northern Vancouver Island. I'm excited about its place in the energy plan and our ability to deliver megawatts to Vancouver Island for the future of its industry and its residents. I think those small communities are pretty darn excited about what's about to take place in their towns. B. Bennett: I just have a few brief comments to make in support of the motion. Wind, tidal and solar sources of electricity are all good and they're all impor- tant, but I wanted to follow up and support the mem- ber for North Vancouver–Seymour and his comments.

I should mention that one of the first IPPs, independent power projects, in the province was actually in the Grasmere area of the East Kootenay. I've spoken of that in this House. It was a run-of-the-creek project by the McDonald family that was put in about 50 or 60 years ago. These sources of electricity are important, but I think it's important to ment ion that they're only one component of our provincial energy policy.

Our econ- omy in B.C. requires uninterrupted power sources, and I would be amiss as the member accountable to the people of the East Kootenay if I didn't stand up and mention that we have abundant sources of coal in this province that we can be using to create that uninter- rupted power source. Very quickly, Alberta ge nerates about 80 percent of its electricity with coal. Th e United States of America generates roughly 60 percent of all of its electricity with coal. The great province of British Columbia, to this point, doesn't generate one kilowatt of electricity with coal.

So I stand up here to remind the House of that fact and to mention that there is still tremendous po- tential for us on the other side of the provincial energy plan from the kinds of energy that are being touted here this morning — and again, I support the motion. We have so much coal in this province. If you look at all the oil and gas and coal and all the other hydro- carbons we have, well over 90 percent of the total hy- drocarbons available to us here in this province consist of coal. I also want to mention that the coal industry is moving to a much cleaner emissions technology.

A coalition of coal companies that the B.C. coal compa-

7150 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES M ONDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2003 nies belong to is moving to zero-emissions technology. They are also working on gasification of coal, which is a very exciting technology. But in reality, it takes a lot of money to develop those kinds of technologies, for the research and development that's necessary, and they need to be successful, of course, as corporations in order to reinvest that money. One of the ways they can do that is by establishing some coal-fired power plants in this province, which I hope they get the opportunity to do eventually.

Not to put a damper on the discussion in any way, but I just simply say that if the province is going to move forward with the development of a stronger economy, which we all want — and I think we're see- ing some signs that we're doing that — we are going to have to think about having reliable, uninterrupted sources of electricity for our economy to depend on.

By all means, I totally support the development of wind power and tidal and solar, and so forth, and would love to have those kinds of developments in my riding, but I also look forward very much to the first coal-fired power plant that we'll have in this province, hopefully, in the next couple of years. [1150] P. Bell: I am very, very pleased to stand in support of Motion 57. The entire notion around independent power projects, especially as they relate to renewable energy sources, is something I feel very strongly we need to continue to capitalize on in B.C.

For years and years and years we allowed this incredible resource just to literally go over the waterfall and disappear into the ocean. It just seems lik e such a waste, when the world is an energy consumer and when our next-door neighbour, the United Stat es, is certainly demanding that resource, for us to allow that to go untapped for, really, a senseless fear. Is it necessary for government, I would ask, to be the developer of these facilities, or should you unleash the entr epreneurial spirit of the private sector and allow them to move forward?

It just makes so much sense to combine the two — to main- tain the integrity of B.C. Hydro, which is exactly what the Minister of Energy and Mines has done, but to al- low the entrepreneurial sector, the private sector, to come on board with their own initiatives, their own strategies, and develop these valuable resources that we have available. One of the ones I was able to go and visit two years ago is located in the Minister of Advanced Education's riding near McBride. It's the Ptarmigan Creek facility. It is a tremendous facility.

It takes a small creek and channels about 80 percent of the water into a pipe, brings it down about a 300-foot drop and runs it through some generating facilities. As a result, it's able to generate about four mega watt

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H1006am 08
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H1006am 08
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	ce1c358b545dad1c9b1097475768fd5bdec41522

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