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November 20, 2014

41st Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2014-Nov-20 (PDF)

L030 - Thu 20 Nov 2014 / Jeu 20 nov 2014

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Thursday 20 November 2014 Jeudi 20 novembre 2014

ORDERS OF THE DAY

Better Business Climate Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 visant à instaurer un climat plus propice aux affaires

Introduction of Visitors

Oral Questions

Taxation

Education funding

Education funding

Health care

Government accountability

Government accountability

Anti-bullying initiatives

Disaster relief

Health care

Ontario public service

Child care

Hospital funding

Ring of Fire

Infectious disease control

Privatization of public assets

Rural infrastructure

Visitors

Deferred Votes

Fighting Fraud and Reducing Automobile Insurance Rates Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 de lutte contre la fraude et de réduction des taux d’assurance-automobile

Introduction of Visitors

Members’ Statements

Air cadets

Dann Bouzide

Food4Kids

Universal Children’s Day

Legal aid

Jour de l’indépendance du Liban / Lebanese Independence Day

Murray Greene

Violence against aboriginal women

Lung disease

Introduction of Bills

Learning Through Workplace Experience Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur l’apprentissage par l’expérience en milieu de travail

Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Clearing Vehicles of Snow and Ice), 2014 / Loi de 2014 modifiant le Code de la route (enlèvement de la neige et de la glace des véhicules)

Statements by the Ministry and Responses

National Housing Day

Visitors

Petitions

Lyme disease

Ontario Drug Benefit Program

Lyme disease

Wind turbines

Private Members’ Public Business

Lung Health Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur la santé pulmonaire

Provincial Framework and Action Plan concerning Vector-Borne and Zoonotic Diseases Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur le cadre et le plan d’action provinciaux concernant les maladies zoonotiques et à transmission vectorielle

Planning Statute Law Amendment Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne l’aménagement du territoire

Lung Health Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur la santé pulmonaire

Provincial Framework and Action Plan concerning Vector-Borne and Zoonotic Diseases Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 sur le cadre et le plan d’action provinciaux concernant les maladies zoonotiques et à transmission vectorielle

Planning Statute Law Amendment Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne l’aménagement du territoire

Orders of the Day

Safeguarding Health Care Integrity Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 de sauvegarde de l’intégrité des soins de santé

Royal assent / Sanction royale

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

Better Business Climate Act, 2014 / Loi de 2014 visant à instaurer un climat plus propice aux affaires

Resuming the debate adjourned on November 19, 2014, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 7,

An Act to enact the Burden Reduction Reporting Act, 2014 and the Partnerships for Jobs and Growth Act, 2014 / Projet de loi 7, Loi édictant la Loi de 2014 sur l’obligation de faire rapport concernant la réduction des fardeaux administratifs et la Loi de 2014 sur les partenariats pour la création d’emplois et la croissance.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): When this item of business was last debated, the member from Wellington–Halton Hills had the floor. I recognize the member from Wellington–Halton Hills.

Mr. Ted Arnott: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It’s a real privilege and an honour to be able to start off the debate today at the Ontario Legislature with the continuing discussion on Bill 7. The Minister of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure, of course, introduced that bill on July 7, and I’m continuing my leadoff debate on behalf of our Ontario Progressive Conservative Party, the official opposition, in my capacity as critic to the Minister of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure.

As we’ve discussed and established, Bill 7 has two separate schedules, so it’s like a mini-omnibus bill.

Schedule 1 is the Burden Reduction Reporting Act, and

schedule 2 is the Partnerships for Jobs and Growth Act.

Just to review,

schedule 1, the Burden Reduction Reporting Act, requires the minister to publish an annual report on regulation or so-called burden reduction—burdens that the government, I guess, has created for small business. A burden is defined in the bill as a cost that is measured in “money, time or resources and is considered ... unnecessary to achieve the purpose ... that creates the cost.” In other words, the government is intending to report on how many unnecessary regulations they have eliminated. This also permits the minister to make regulations respecting the report, which may itself include regulation.

Schedule 2 to the bill, the Partnerships for Jobs and Growth Act, permits the minister to prepare plans with respect to the development of geographical economic clusters. The minister has the authority to consult with those who have an interest in the plan, and amend, review and revoke the plan, if he chooses to do so. The minister can also make regulations about what goes into the plan, and he or she can decide who should be consulted and determines how the plan is reviewed, revoked and made public.

Mr. Speaker, we’ve said on a number of occasions now, over the course of this debate, we submit and believe that the minister could do both of these things without Bill 7 if he chose to do so. Instead, he’s bringing in this bill, which would require him and future Ministers of Economic Development, I guess, to make this annual plan with respect to red tape reduction—although the bill calls it “burdens”—and to develop a cluster plan.

As I say, this is something that the minister could do in both cases, actually, without the necessity of passing Bill 7. Nevertheless, this bill is before the House.

I would again acknowledge that the Canadian Federation of Independent Business has indicated to me that they’re quite supportive of the bill because they support the first

schedule because they believe they’ve encouraged the government to do this. Again, I would remind the House that the CFIB, for years, has been encouraging the government to reduce regulatory red tape that’s unnecessary. We know that small business people continue to express concerns about being encumbered—and in some cases being strangled—by red tape from the provincial government in particular, but other layers of government as well.

The fact is every hour that a small business person has to spend dealing with government forms or dealing with what seem to be unnecessary regulations is an hour taken away from what they do best, which is actually servicing their customers and trying to expand their customer base so that the business can grow, so that the business can be profitable and so that the business can hire more people. That is the goal of most small business people, and it’s a goal that we understand on this side of the House and that we share. We want to support them every way we can.

I want to again point out the CFIB’s additional concerns with respect to red tape. As far as I’m concerned, this Bill 7 does not go anywhere near accomplishing all the requests of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business in terms of red tape reduction. They’ve asked for the introduction of regulation on regulatory accountability. Again, the government I’m sure would argue that Bill 7 is a response to that, but CFIB is looking for much more.

They’re asking for legislation to prescribe regulatory reduction targets to ensure that there is zero net growth in terms of regulations and red tape, helping to reinforce the 1-to-2 rule, whereby for every new regulation affecting small business and tying them up, two regulations would be eliminated.

They’ve also asked that the government fully implement the regular review of high-impact regulations. They’ve asked that there be a review of the regulatory implementation process at all government agencies and delegated administrative authorities, DAAs, including organizations and government agencies like the Technical Standards and Safety Authority, Stewardship Ontario, Ontario Electronic Stewardship, Ontario Tire Stewardship and others. The CFIB has also asked the government to rebrand the online regulatory feedback form, make the tool permanent and improve services offered through bizpal.ca.

Again, I would recommend to the minister over the course of this debate that he look at all of these recommendations, not just implementing half of the first one and calling it a success on the part of the government.

But I looked at this bill in the broader sense, and we’ve talked about it in terms of the economic climate that this bill is being introduced in and also some of the other economic competitiveness challenges that we face in the province of Ontario.

As I’ve discussed in the past, in our riding we have an issue in terms of traffic congestion through the community of Morriston in Puslinch township. I should really begin by acknowledging and paying tribute to a good friend of mine, the former mayor of Puslinch township, Brad Whitcombe, who passed away tragically this past weekend. Brad was a good friend. He was an outstanding mayor of the township of Puslinch. He was a warden of the county of Wellington. He was really an outstanding community leader in our riding. He passed away so suddenly; it’s a shock to all of us. I know that I pass along, certainly, the condolences of my family and of all in the House who knew him. He was a great man.

He advocated for the Morriston bypass very effectively through the years, and I worked with him on this issue. But as we know the Minister of Transportation is in the process of finalizing and preparing the southern highways program, the updated five-year plan for new construction for highways.

I’d like to again put on the record some of the concerns of my community as well as some of the adjacent ridings. We would argue that this is not just an issue for Puslinch township and Wellington county, but it’s a huge issue for the Hamilton and Niagara regions because it involves the access of Hamilton traffic to the 401. Obviously the pressure point is in the community of Morriston in Puslinch township, which has become the bottleneck, but at the same time that affects a big part of the province of Ontario, and I again look to the adjacent MPPs, some of whom are in the House right now.

I see the Minister of Municipal Affairs; I appreciate his efforts in the past to advocate for this project. I see the member for Cambridge who is here; I believe she’s very supportive as well. We’re trying to work to get this on the five-year plan.

The Morriston Bypass Coalition was here in October. They put these facts to the government. A recent University of Waterloo study on the southern Highway 6 corridor estimates that daily commuter traffic is more than 22,500 vehicles annually—that’s more than eight million vehicles—and annual commercial traffic is between 930,000 and 1.2 million vehicles.

An analysis of Statistics Canada trucking commodity origin destination data illustrates that the corridor—again, Highway 6 through Puslinch township—is a key link in our trade with the United States, with up to 150 million kilograms of goods being transported to the eastern United States along the route each year. While the posted speed limit on Highway 6 through Morriston is 50 kilometres an hour, the peak speed reached is only 34 kilometres per hour on weekdays between 3 p.m. and 6 p.m. Mr. Speaker, if you had the opportunity to see this, you wouldn’t believe it, because the traffic is sometimes lined up for kilometres and travelling at a snail’s pace through this small community.

The Morriston bypass project would alleviate ever-worsening traffic issues in our area, saving local businesses and commuters more than $15 million a year today and more than $30 million per year by 2031. The estimated value of commuter traffic and commercial travel time saved during peak periods with the proposed bypass applied to 2011 traffic would be $15.3 million. By 2031, the annual value of commuter and commercial time saved during peak periods with the proposed bypass is more than $30 million.

Again, I would suggest that this is important information relevant to the debate of Bill 7, because it deals with economic competitiveness, and certainly the government would argue that Bill 7 is all about trying to make the economy more competitive. We need this project in our riding to make the province more competitive.

Despite the long-acknowledged need for the essential infrastructure by the government, construction of the Morriston bypass is now decades overdue. The province acknowledged the need to reroute Highway 6 more than 30 years ago, following an initial study that began in 1978, and the Morriston bypass project was presented to the Ministry of Transportation going back to 1994.

In January 2009, the Ministry of Transportation received environmental assessment approval for the new route from the Ministry of the Environment. That was after a meeting that we had here at Queen’s Park with representatives of Puslinch township council and the Minister of the Environment of the day, John Gerretsen, that I had set up and arranged. We were very pleased to get the support of the Minister of the Environment, but that is now five years ago, Mr.

Speaker, and we’re concerned that every year that goes by, this environmental assessment—someone along the line is going to say it’s stale-dated, and force us all back to the drawing board. Surely the government can move more quickly than that, and it should.

In a letter to the Guelph Mercury newspaper published in April 2010, the Liberal MPP for Guelph, who is now the Minister of Education, wrote a letter to the editor. She was quoted in this letter saying, “The transportation ministry is actively working on this project, and the Morriston bypass will be built.” I appreciate the support that the member for Guelph has demonstrated publicly for this project, and I would encourage her to continue to speak up for the need for it, because this issue affects Guelph and benefits Guelph, I would argue, as much as it benefits my riding.

Despite all of the past assurances from the government, the Morriston bypass unfortunately is not currently listed as a planned project in the ministry’s five-year investment plan, or what we call the southern highways program. But, again, we are trying to get it on the plan.

Businesses have made significant investments in our area on the understanding that the government was moving forward, or will be moving forward, with the Morriston bypass. But with every passing year of inaction, the success of these investments and the jobs that they are have generated, quite frankly, are put in jeopardy. Opened in 2005, for example, Tim Hortons’ Guelph facility has approximately 500 employees. Each year, more than 4,600 trips are made along the Highway 6 corridor to and from the facility.

Maple Leaf Foods has a new 282,000-square-foot distribution centre in Puslinch township and a 402,000-square-foot prepared meats facility currently under construction in Hamilton that will ship approximately $200 million in goods along the Highway 6 corridor each year. It’s my understanding that there have been meetings at the highest level within the government, with a Maple Leaf Foods’ senior executive and with the Premier, urging—obviously, because of the significant investment, that Maple Leaf Foods has made in our area—that they need the Morriston bypass to be built. Of course, Maple Leaf Foods is part of the Morriston Bypass Coalition.

Canada Bread, in 2011, invested $100 million to help build Canada’s largest commercial bakery in Hamilton. Supporting 300 full-time jobs, the bakery ships approximately $24 million worth of goods along the Highway 6 corridor each year. Of course, as you can imagine, the bread being shipped from the plant, stuck in that long lineup that’s kilometres long through Morriston—obviously, we need to do something about it, and the solution is to build the Morriston bypass.

We have Nestlé Waters Canada located in Puslinch township. It is Canada’s largest bottled water manufacturer and distributor. Its 900,000-square-foot facility in Guelph employs approximately 300 people and ships $10 million to $15 million worth of goods annually through Morriston. They are part of the coalition as well. They are pushing for the Morriston bypass, and we are working together.

In terms of the Morriston residents: With their local main street serving double duty as a major transportation artery for the province of Ontario, local residents have legitimate concerns about the safety and well-being of their families. This

section of Highway 6 has a much-higher-than-normal crash rate, with approximately 47% more collisions than the provincial average. Since 1994, 22 people have lost their lives on this stretch of highway, with four people killed, tragically, in head-on collisions since 2004.

I’ve met on numerous occasions with Bill Knetsch, who is the owner of the fine restaurant that we have in Morriston called Enver’s, that many of you will have heard of. It’s often written up in Toronto Life as an outstanding destination restaurant. Morriston restaurant owner Bill Knetsch said residents take their lives in their hands trying to cross the main street. Having witnessed a number of serious collisions himself, he shudders whenever he sees children riding bicycles along the roadway.

I would totally agree, having been privileged to represent Puslinch township now for a number of years, first between 1990 and 1999. After redistribution in 1999, I was no longer the MPP for Puslinch, and it was represented by other members, including the now member for Guelph. The fact is, I have again resumed responsibility for Puslinch township as a result of the redistribution in 2007 and have really tried to do everything I possibly can to advocate in this House.

We have a very good case that we’ve made. The Morriston Bypass Coalition actually came together as a result of a suggestion and a recommendation by the former Minister of Transportation at the time, Bob Chiarelli. We had a good meeting two or three years ago with representatives of township council. The minister said to us at that time, “Get the business community to speak up. If you want this road built, you’ve got to bring people together and get the business community to speak up and push for the economic arguments.” Well, we’ve done that, Mr. Speaker. We’ve done it, and I think we’ve done it very effectively.

We have this large coalition of big businesses. There are hundreds of jobs in play here. Surely to goodness the government is going to finally realize the importance of this project and get it on the five-year plan.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, again, I want to thank you for your indulgence on this important issue of Bill 7. I appreciate it. I look forward to the continued debate on Bill 7.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I listened to the statement made by the member from Wellington—

Mr. Ted Arnott: Wellington–Halton Hills.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: —Wellington–Halton Hills. I’m going to learn these ridings yet. That’s my thing for this particular session.

I just want to say this is quite an interesting bill. On the surface, people would argue that if you’re trying to find a way to make sure that you have a strong regulatory system that protects the environment, protects health and safety but does it in a way that is able to make it a little bit easier to navigate through—I don’t think anybody would be opposed to that.

The government is making a big fanfare with this particular bill and this particular initiative, but when you read the bill, it’s a two-page bill. It essentially gives the government the powers it currently has, which is kind of an odd thing to do.

First of all, the government has delegated the authority of the Legislature to cabinet in most of their legislation. Whatever bill goes into cabinet, the regulations are written by cabinet, and that’s something that has been delegated.

What this particular bill also does is it raises the question about how we write regulations. The problem in the way we do regulations now is, because it’s done by cabinet, often those people who need to know, who want to be involved in the regulatory process, may or may not be part of that process, because it’s by invitation only of the cabinet and of the minister responsible.

I think it begs the question: Should we be thinking about how we’re better able to review regulations as they’re written—or after they’re written, at the regs and private bills committee, a committee that is specifically struck in order to look at regulations? Currently, the ability for members to review regulations is quite limited, and I think it raises an interesting point: that if the government was truly serious about being transparent, it would find some kind of way to take that whole regulatory thing out of the dark and put it under the light, where it needs to be.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Ms. Soo Wong: I’m very pleased to rise this morning to speak in support of Bill 7,

An Act to enact the Burden Reduction Reporting Act, 2014 and the Partnerships for Jobs and Growth Act, 2014.

I heard the words from my colleague opposite from Wellington–Halton Hills and my colleague from Timmins–James Bay. I want to challenge the member from Timmins–James Bay, because he didn’t mention in his remarks, in his two-minute response to the member from Wellington–Halton Hills, that an important piece of Bill 7 talks about the issue of development of cluster growth, which is in

schedule 2.

For those who are watching the debate this morning on this particular bill, the Toronto board of trade has put it very accurately that clusters collaborate to compete. If this bill gets passed, we will become the first jurisdiction in North America to focus on cluster development, and that is a good thing. Bill 7 will bring businesses together and keep clusters competitive and creating jobs, not just for today but for tomorrow. That is a very, very important piece of the legislation.

The minister—I know he kicked off the debate the other day on this particular bill—spoke well about the importance of the development of clusters. We know that the city of Toronto, which I am a member from, is ranked number three in North America and number 11 globally on competitiveness for a global financial centre. Ontario ranked number two in North America in terms of information, communication and technology. My colleagues from Kitchener–Waterloo, from Ottawa and here in greater Toronto know the importance of clustering and why we need to have this kind of legislation.

Mr. Speaker, thank you for this opportunity to speak about Bill 7.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments.

Ms. Sylvia Jones: It’s always a pleasure to be in the House when my colleague and friend from Wellington–Halton Hills is speaking. You wouldn’t know it by looking at him, because he still looks 34, but the member from Wellington–Halton Hills is actually one of our deans here in the Legislature. He has served consistently and honourably since 1990. I think one of the reasons he does is his ability to work with all sides of the House. His advocacy on behalf of the Morriston bypass just reinforces that for me.

It is an incredible amount of tenacity that, with very few exceptions, he is able to tie every legislative proposal that comes forward into the value of the Morriston bypass. The statistics and the material and the background that he includes in those debates and in his advocacy, I think, are what make him an outstanding member.

I just want to say, whatever you’re doing, keep doing it, and maybe educate the rest of us, because his work on behalf of Wellington–Halton Hills really is the way we have to work as MPPs in this Legislature, regardless of whether we are in government, official opposition or the third party.

I just want to congratulate him on his work and hope that his message on the importance and the value of the Morriston bypass is getting through, because it’s certainly getting through on our side.

Interjection.

Ms. Sylvia Jones: It is a discussion about the Morriston bypass and how it relates to Bill 7.

That’s what I find is absolutely admirable, that the member from Wellington–Halton Hills continues to be able to bring forward his important policy points on why it has to happen.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Questions and comments?

Mr. Taras Natyshak: Good morning, Speaker, and good morning to my colleagues in the House. I’m pleased to join the debate. I listened intently to—

Interjection.

Mr. Taras Natyshak: I will speak to the Morriston bypass, because it was referenced, of course, by the member from Wellington–Halton Hills, who is quite knowledgeable on many subjects—all subjects, I would say—in the House.

The Morriston bypass: We all have important infrastructure files in our ridings. I, of course, have the Highway 3 expansion bypass that was started and worked on by my predecessor, Mr. Bruce Crozier. It is actually named after him, yet it has yet to be completed. I hope the minister is aware of that and has a plan to fulfill what I think Mr. Crozier put a lot of effort into.

Nevertheless, the bill before us, Bill 7, the Better Business Climate Act, we see as a bill that really, in terms of priorities, shouldn’t be before the House at this very moment. We have the ability, or the minister has the ability, to set up different protocols for cluster development.

I would say that maybe a more focused approach would be something that would call on the government to develop a national manufacturing plan or a provincial manufacturing plan in conjunction with partners at the federal level, something that’s being called for not only by the manufacturing industry, specifically automotive, but also by workers’ groups, whether they be union or otherwise, that are telling us, as lawmakers, that we’re missing the boat. We’re not really doing anything when it comes to attracting investment and consolidating.

Whether it be regulatory burdens or incentive programs, we’re not doing enough. It’s too fragmented and the province needs a strategy. That, I would see as a priority and something we should delve into, but this bill, as it is, really doesn’t come even close to the edges of getting into that issue.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): I now return to the member for Wellington–Halton Hills. You have two minutes.

Mr. Ted Arnott: I want to express my appreciation to the member for Timmins–James Bay, the member for Scarborough–Agincourt, the member for Dufferin–Caledon and the member for Essex for their kind remarks. I know that this debate continues to unfold and we’re looking forward to the speech that will be made by the New Democrats next—possibly the leadoff speech?

Mr. Taras Natyshak: Yes.

Mr. Ted Arnott: So we’re looking forward to that. I would hope that I’ll be able to be in the House to hear the comments of the NDP.

I think there’s an emerging consensus that we perhaps have unanimous consent to rename this bill the Morriston bypass support act. I’d like to seek unanimous consent—I’m just kidding, Mr. Speaker. But it would be helpful for other members to express their support, as I say. I would look for that support from others.

I especially want to express appreciation to the member for Dufferin–Caledon for her kind comments. Yes, she does an outstanding job representing the people of Dufferin–Caledon. I’ve been privileged to work with her going back to 2007, and before that, when she worked in the offices of John Tory, Ernie Eves and David Tilson. I’ve known her for a long time. She is an absolutely outstanding MPP on behalf of her constituents and in her capacity as chair of our caucus, and of course as the Attorney General critic. I certainly find her comments very encouraging, but at the same time I would extend the very same comments to her. She is an absolutely outstanding member.

Again, I want to say, in sum, as the critic for the Minister of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure, that I am recommending to my caucus colleagues that our caucus support this bill at second reading, but we look forward to sending the bill to committee, hopefully, and having some hearings and hopefully not time-allocating this bill, so that there is some meaningful debate, but sending the bill to committee such that we can have meaningful hearings and hopefully hear from the Canadian Federation of Independent Business and individual business people so that we can identify some of these so-called burdens, what I would call red tape, and get the government to move forward with a plan to eliminate unnecessary red tape and to do more on that respect.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Further debate?

Mr. Wayne Gates: I’m happy to rise and talk on Bill 7. I got the privilege of talking for an hour on a bill that’s a page and a half. I’m looking forward to doing that in the House. Bill 7 is a combination of two acts, the Burden Reduction Reporting Act and the Partnership for Jobs and Growth Act.

Ontario was once the engine for growth for the entire country of Canada and a major economic centre for the continent of North America. I remember these times well, because at that time I was working in the automotive industry in Niagara. As many of you know, Niagara was the centre of economic activity that fuelled the entire province.

During that period, we developed some of the strongest industries in the entire country and lots of clusters. A large majority of the cars this country built and exported to the world were made right in the place I call home, Niagara. We made these cars out of steel produced in Ontario, in Hamilton. We used resources drawn right here in Ontario. A few decades ago, there was massive economic development happening right across this great province, and I witnessed it first-hand.

This bill discusses clusters, which it describes as a region of activity where related businesses work together to thrive. This was the steel manufacturing cluster in Hamilton, industrial sectors in Windsor and tourism in Niagara. These clusters developed on the backs of hard-working people of this great province.

Businesses looking to expand knew that Ontario provided the smartest, most dedicated and hard-working people you could find. They knew we had the capacity to take their businesses, to innovate, to have resources close by, to keep transportation costs low and to work with local companies to bring them to the next level. Without government interference, these businesses used their surroundings to expand.

Quite frankly, when businesses did well, people did well. When the automotive sector was booming, people in Niagara were doing well. They were employed. They had decent, well-paying jobs. They could put in a good day of hard work and come home with a well-earned paycheque. This is the same story for the hard-working people of Ontario, from our resource industry clusters in the north to the industrial clusters in the south. As many of you know, the last decade has not been the same story unfortunately.

But these examples highlight the importance of developing our regional clusters. We do this through government support, by listening to our key stakeholders and by reducing unnecessary government regulations that stop businesses from coming to Ontario. The more businesses we can bring to Ontario, the better chance we’ll have to develop these regional clusters. The stronger the development, the better it is for the taxpayers of this province.

Mr. Speaker, when it comes to Ontario, there is no reason why business shouldn’t want to be here. We still have industrial buildings, which were so busy years ago, ready to be used again. We have an educated population, full of young workers who just want to work. I’ve met with these young people in my riding. It is incredible how smart they are, how dedicated they are and the hours they will put in to get the job done. When I talk to my colleagues here today, there are a lot of young people working for MPPs in this room, and I don’t think anybody would ever argue how hard they work on our behalf.

We have got the resources and the infrastructure here to make our companies successful. The question becomes, how do we support these businesses? This bill proposes two ways. First is to reduce the burdens that might stop companies from coming to Ontario. The second is to encourage clusters so their development is quicker and much stronger.

So let’s take a look at the first half of the bill. Reducing burdens is a good thing, so long as we know what they are. This bill defines this as “the purpose of the statutory, regulatory, procedural, administrative or other requirement that creates the cost.”

If this bill is well-meaning, that is a good thing. I’ll repeat that: If this bill is well-meaning, this is a good thing. If I’m reading this language right, this means that anything which cannot justify the cost paid for it should be eliminated. This is a statement that, at face value, is well-meaning. We just need to make sure we’re not being unreasonable. Of course, there are a few things the current government has done which I believe can be eliminated, but I won’t discuss that here.

Mr. Speaker, I want to take a moment to thank the staff from the Ministry of Economic Development. Yesterday, they had some of their very talented and intelligent staff sit down with me and brief me on the contents of this bill. They explained that the language referred to shortening forms that may have become pointless over the years.

Obviously, we do not want businesses having to cut through tons and tons of red tape if they want to set up shop right here in Ontario. But we have to be clear: It has to be unnecessary red tape. Of course, this bill isn’t entirely clear as to what the Minister of Economic Development will consider to be unreasonable burdens.

I made this clear as well: We support removing any of the burdens that may exist because of too much paperwork or outdated policies. We just want to make sure the bill says that. If not, Mr. Speaker, there could be issues around regulations and rules that exist to protect workers. Workplace safety regulations come to mind first. I know my colleagues that are here today, and probably all those glued to their televisions back in their offices, are worried about that too. They want safe workplaces across the province of Ontario.

But I’m worried that instead of helping businesses grow safely, this act is a smokescreen that will scale back safety laws that protect our workers. According to this bill, the minister could say we’re paying too much to keep our workers safe in their work environments. Maybe the minister feels that instead of investing in our businesses here in Ontario, he can cut costs by cutting out regulations that companies are forced to have to keep our workers safe—the same safety regulations, Mr. Speaker, that workers have fought for decades to have. They’re not in place to be inconvenient.

They are in place to make sure that no man and no woman—and, in some cases, some of our young children that go and work part-time as they’re going to school—ever has to worry about maybe not coming home, as we’ve seen in this province before.

There are examples of this all across the province of Ontario. As the member from Nickel Belt has mentioned before, there are serious concerns with the Liberal government and their love affair with private clinics that outsource medical care to private buyers. They’re setting up shop faster than we can keep track of them, yet they are running around proper health and safety standards.

I had the privilege just the other day to go and talk to our brothers and sisters at ONA, right down here at the Westin. They had a thousand nurses and workers. I had a chance to talk to them. You know what they told us and what they informed us of, what their convention was about and what they said to our labour minister from the Liberal Party? They told him the number one issue in their workplace is safety and how they were being hurt on the job.When you look at sectors—you look at the steel sector, at the auto sector—you would think that’s where all the injuries are happening. The number one workplace is with nurses, getting hurt on the job.

So yes, reducing red tape has allowed private health clinics to open up quickly and allowed them to take Ontarians’ hard-earned money, and put their health at risk. You only have to talk to ONA on that issue, and the nurses who do an incredible, incredible job for all of us every day.

Instead of people going to clinics to get healthy, they’re actually getting sicker. Think about it: health clinics not following health regulations. Let me say this again: I’m all for reducing unneeded burdens that allow businesses to open right here in Ontario. But we can’t support it if the minister is going to use this clause to slash and burn regulations that keep our people safe and healthy in our workplaces across the province of Ontario.

On paper, it looks great. And quite frankly, it’s a page and a half, this bill. Like I said, I was thrilled to get the opportunity to talk for an hour on a page and a half. But it wasn’t the page and a half that concerned me; it was what was trying to be said in that page and a half. So on paper it looks great. The government lets a private clinic set up shop. They open quickly; the government overpays the developers; and in the end we pick up the costs when things go wrong.

Regulations need to be closely examined before they are slashed. This bill provides nothing up front to address that issue. It gives the minister the authority to slash regulations and report on them after the fact. We need provisions that protect citizens and employees.

Let’s take a look at another issue, one raised by the MPP from Kitchener–Waterloo. We have a serious issue in this province where our young workers are being put in dangerous situations involving heights. There’s no legislation that demands that employers do their part and properly give their workers height training. We see young workers, our sons and our daughters, our grandkids, workers who are out there striving to get a job, who are afraid—and my daughters have told me this—to refuse unsafe work, getting injured and killed in the workplace.

We can’t be cutting burdens like that when it comes to training and regulations. Certainly, we need to implement regulations to save workers’ lives. When it comes to getting business here in Ontario, let’s support them. Let’s make sure there are no unnecessary burdens to overcome, but let’s make sure this bill isn’t used as a wholesale deregulation of very important standards.

It could be the case that some health and safety training that is regulated costs money. But companies that say that need to ask themselves a more important question. This is important. If you ask the businesses across the province in Ontario, they’ll tell you the same thing: What is the cost of paying an injured worker or going to court? On the face of it, it may look like removing certain burdens would save money, but realistically, having some regulations and restrictions helps to make sure some companies aren’t paying much higher fees later on.

That’s what I’d say when it comes to the definition of a burden. If you’re discussing removing procedures that are costly and unnecessary, let’s get it done. Let’s do it. Let’s make sure it’s easy for business to open up shop in my riding in Niagara, in Sudbury and in Toronto. But let’s make sure we’re not opening the doors for companies to skip over regulations and put the people of Ontario at risk. Let’s make sure we legislate where we must to protect people and remove burdens where we can to foster better businesses and business growth here in Ontario.

We never want to see a person get injured or even killed because there was not enough analysis done when it comes to removing a regulation. If we do this right, we can create an Ontario where businesses have no fear of unnecessary regulations, but also where workers and everyday citizens can sleep at night knowing that proper safety regulations are being followed. I believe, at the end of the day, that becomes a win-win for everybody. That’s where we should go.

The first part of the bill is interesting. It requires that the minister submit a report to this Legislature every year on the work they’ve been doing to reduce unnecessary burdens. Like I said before, this bill is pretty vague in its language. The definition it offers of burdens can be looked at in a number of ways. If the minister were to clarify in the act how this government is going to distinguish between what a regulation is, a burden necessary to protect the public interest, and what burdens are unnecessary costs to businesses—that’s what this act should be looking at. Then I would feel a whole lot better.

Clarifying this act is the best way to make sure we’re eliminating what isn’t necessary and keeping what is vitally important. I fear that one report always made after the fact will be quite lengthy and oftentimes far too late. In the case of our clinics or our workers, a report after the fact would reverse the side effects of mass deregulation.

When you take a look at the bill, it says that the report will be done sometime before June 30, but when you follow closer into the language, the language says, “but it may be extended.” The word “may,” in the world I come from, is a very soft word when it comes to language. You always like to say “shall”; you like to see something like that. What could happen in the report: The report could be done on June 30 one year and the next year you’re expecting another report on June 30, but they could extend it to December 31 because that constitutes a year. You have to have some concerns around that.

The other concern I have around the reporting: Wouldn’t it make a lot more sense that, before you do anything and eliminate any regulations or put any hardships onto the business—why wouldn’t we do the report before, and have that discussion and make sure what they’re doing is something that makes sense to all of us?

The example I got yesterday from my colleagues was WSIB. You can talk about WSIB in this room for probably hours, on the problems that we have there. But on the forms what they’re saying is, “One of the things that’s really giving us a hiccup is that somebody may get injured on the job, but there’s no lost time involved.” They didn’t get off the job. They didn’t lose, really, any time on the job, yet they have to fill out this long, long form on exactly what happened. They said that they would like to see that form shortened. Well, that would make a little bit of sense. I could understand that.

Those types of things we could have, but it would be nice, before we see the report, if we actually had that dialogue. I think for everybody in this House—if they could make it a shorter form from a long form, I don’t think that’s an issue. That’s my concern with the reporting, we’re going to get it all after the fact, so clarifying this in the act is the best way to make sure we’re eliminating what isn’t necessary and keeping what is vitally important. I fear one report—always made after the fact—will be quite lengthy, so I’m concerned about that.

Let’s make sure we make Ontario the best place in North America to invest. We all know our problems with people finding jobs. We’ve got everything an investor could want. I want to repeat that for my colleagues across so they hear it quite well: We’ve got everything an investor could want right here in Ontario. We have manufacturing, we have natural resources, and most importantly—and I’ve heard this coming from folks from all around the world—we have the smartest, most dedicated and the hardest-working workers in the world. There is no reason Ontario cannot be the economic powerhouse it has historically been. We need to work with businesses and workers alike to make that a reality.

If we have smart and dedicated economic development, we can finally lift Ontario out of the slump that has existed since the financial downturn and give people the work they deserve. That’s in the first part of the bill, which is removing government from the process, where it makes sense, and allowing businesses the opportunity to set up and grow here in Ontario—that used to be a commercial. Do you remember that? “Set up and grow in Ontario.” Maybe I’m the only one who remembers that. Maybe I’m showing my age here; I’m not sure. I didn’t get any feedback over there; they didn’t even pay attention to that one.

I thought that was a good line: Set up and grow here in Ontario. That’s what we need.

The second part of the bill actually puts the government back into the process. The second part of this bill deals with clusters. For those of you who are unaware, according to this legislation, clusters tend to be considered geographic groupings of similar businesses. We all understand that. At first glance, it may just look like a few groups decide to set up shop in the same area, but identifying and nurturing these clusters is far more important than that. When a group of businesses cluster together we see some great things when it comes to economic growth.

By being situated close together, there is an increase in competition, but not always just competition, oftentimes collaboration as well, which is equally important. By being so close to one another, these businesses tend to be innovative and grow off of one another.

So when these clusters start to form, the best and the brightest who work in these industries that are being developed move in to the region. When they move to the area, more businesses are attracted to come to these centres of innovation and take advantage of these employees or, just as important, the resource base. A pool of working, wherever it is made, makes a certain geographic area attractive, whether that be up north, whether it be in Kitchener–Waterloo or whether it be in Niagara. The more businesses that come, the more jobs they make. I think we all understand that.

That’s what the idea of the cluster is. The larger the businesses, the more competition, the more innovation and so on, as it goes. So you can see why developing these clusters is a good thing. Probably one of the most famous examples is Silicon Valley in the United States.

Mr. Speaker, right here in Ontario—right here in Ontario—we have a number of clusters that provide some of Ontario’s best jobs, well-paying—things that we need right here. Two great examples are the IT cluster in the Waterloo area and the automotive cluster in Windsor, and in Niagara, my area of the province of Ontario.

In St. Catharines, we have a General Motors plant that employs 2,000 people, both union and non-union. The plant builds a V6 engine. It has engine lines and assembly lines. But what happens when an automotive plant is in your area? The plant employs people who live in St. Catharines, Niagara Falls, Welland, Port Colborne—the entire area. Basically every city in the region would have employees there. But there’s support there it builds off of.

There’s a CAMI plant, which turns out the Equinox and the Terrain. So you can see, that’s a bit of a cluster. If you talk to the workers down there, they have a lot of parts suppliers that are supplying to that plant. Well, CAMI has about 3,000 employees, and they say that every automotive industry job creates another six to seven spinoff jobs, direct and indirect jobs—very important clusters.

I’m going to tell you a quick story about a plant. It’s called SpencerARL. It does logistics for the transmission plant in Niagara. Now this was a plant that came into Niagara Falls, and they were awarded the job of supplying to General Motors, doing some inspection, doing some of that stuff for them. They started with 11 employees—11.

As we showed the highly skilled workforce that we had here—people in the manufacturing sector who unfortunately had lost their jobs in places like Hayes-Dana or Edscha—they saw that they had workers right in Niagara who had the experience to work in the automotive sector who understood what it’s like to work in a plant, who understood what it was like to work shift work.

I don’t know how many in this room have worked shift work. Shift work is not always easy. It’s not easy on the family. Trying to get your kids to hockey when you’re working shift work—a lot of that responsibility would fall on one of the parents, one of the partners of the relationship, male or female. Because in a lot of cases in these workplaces today, there are women working there. There are men working there. Some are working in the same plant, and they’re all taking their kids to different stuff. But SpencerARL is a good example of what a cluster can do.

So General Motors awarded a new transmission line to the St. Catharines plant, and I believe it was close to a $600-million investment in St. Catharines—all good news. General Motors made that decision. I believe—like I think everybody in the room does, all my colleagues here—that we have some of the most talented workers in the world right here. We know how to build cars in this country. We’re the best.

But SpencerARL started at 11. Today, Mr. Speaker, do you know how many employees they have there? I know you’re dying for me to tell you, because you’re looking right at me. Three hundred—300 employees. They’ve grown from 11—by the way, all unionized; that was never an issue at this company, which I think I like to say. They came in and they sat down with the union when they had 11. We hammered out a collective agreement, and I can say a very good collective agreement, because I bargained it with the company across the table. They were excited to come to Ontario. They were excited to open up in Niagara Falls.

It was the first manufacturing—I was on city council as well in Niagara Falls—to come to Niagara Falls in close to 20 years, and they grew from 11 to 300. That’s what the cluster is about, quite frankly.

They’re 12 minutes away from the plant, so just-in-time is nice and easy. We can talk about the infrastructure that we need to fix to help businesses as well; we can’t be stuck on the highway, on the 401, all the time. But this is a plant that’s 11 or 12 minutes away. Just on time, they get the parts there. It’s absolutely incredible what’s happened. But they grew from 11 to 30 because of a cluster, because General Motors made a business decision to come to St. Catharines and the surrounding area—SpencerARL being the case here—and grew from 11 to 30. I think that’s what we’re talking about when we talk about clusters.

The offshoot to that was that there’s another company that, because the basement in General Motors was empty and because of, again—I didn’t participate in this—the bargaining of the union, they agreed to utilize the open space in the basement to have another company come there. They’re called Offsite. What happened is that they came into the basement and the same thing happened: They started with 12, maybe 14, employees. They’re now up to 80.

As a cluster grows, what happens? It’s a highly skilled workforce, so they’re excited to come to Ontario. Why wouldn’t you be? It’s a great province. So the clusters can certainly work, and I think I’ve given you two pretty good examples.

Now, I don’t know the names of the companies, but there are tool and die shops that have now come in and that are now doing work within the area. As you see the automotive cluster, you see how it grew. We went from, say, 11 employees at SpencerARL, 11 employees in the basement, to where now we’re talking 400 employees making what I would consider a fair wage with fair benefits, working in the province of Ontario and taking home a paycheque to their families. I think that’s all good news for us. I certainly believe, on our side of the House, that we can support that. Why wouldn’t we support it? It’s putting our kids and our grandkids to work.

The big thing in Niagara is that some of the other plants closed, like Dana, like Edscha, where they lost jobs, they’ve now been put back to work doing the same thing they’ve done their entire life because of the cluster and because of a decision, and, quite frankly, through the support of the Ontario government, that we were able to negotiate a brand new transmission line in the St. Catherines plant, and now the cluster is growing. Tool and die, inspection, machine shops: It’s absolutely great.

I wanted to tell that story because I think it talks to the bill on how clusters can work. They certainly can work in Niagara around automotive.

I can talk about tourism because I have a few minutes left. It looks like I have lots of minutes left, so I’ve got lots of time to talk. It’s one of the things I enjoy doing. We can talk about tourism, and I’ll do that for a minute.

The reason why I’m going to do that is because I think it’s important. We’re going back a few years to 1995, in that area; it might be 1994, but it’s back a bit. As you get older, your memory isn’t quite as good, but it’s in that area. There was a decision made to build a casino in Niagara Falls. It’s going to create 3,000, 4,000, 5,000 jobs when it’s up and running. It’s a good-news story, right? It’s tourism. I’d ask my colleagues, how many have been to Niagara Falls here? I think everybody has been to Niagara Falls. Right?

Interjection.

Mr. Wayne Gates: Exactly.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: I lived there for a couple of years.

Mr. Wayne Gates: There you go: Some of my colleagues have been to Niagara Falls.

You can see what happened in Niagara Falls when the casino came. First of all, what happened is they hired 3,000 or 4,000 people—good-paying jobs, around the clock. Casinos are open 365 days a year, I believe, seven days a week. What it did is it created a cluster of other businesses, direct and indirect. You know what I said about the automotive sector? That’s exactly what happened in tourism. Now you need somebody to supply the food, so now you have a group that is doing that.

What happened in Niagara Falls and, I believe, put it on the map just outside of the falls, was that billions and billions of dollars were invested in new hotels in Niagara Falls, creating thousands and thousands of jobs—again, a tourism cluster, something that we needed.

Quite frankly, I’m going to make a pitch. The city of Niagara Falls, while I was sitting on city council—we’re happy with the two that we have. We believe there should be more investment in upgrading one of our casinos, but we believe there is room for another casino in Niagara Falls. That’s one thing we think we should work at. The other thing is that we had a cluster in Fort Erie, the same type of thing around tourism.

Now, think about what we’re saying here, because the bill is talking about clusters. We have an automotive cluster, we have an IT cluster, we have a tourism cluster. In Fort Erie, we had a cluster. They had the slots in Fort Erie, and the slots, through their revenue, were providing some revenue for the racetrack. You know how that all worked. It created 300 jobs, and then it created jobs in the hotel sector, the restaurants and all the local businesses. So now you’re creating four and five more jobs.

The problem that we had with that particular cluster is—and a decision that I’m hoping, at some point in time, we can sit down with the government and get changed—let’s reopen that casino and continue to have that cluster and those jobs.

At the racetrack, there were 1,000 jobs: 700 direct, 300 indirect. The casino, the slots part of it, had almost 300 jobs. Revenue was going to the council. Some of the revenue was going to help with the purses at the track.

What happens with that cluster? Who wins? The government of Ontario wins, because they’re getting tax dollars, which we know we need from looking at where we’re at. We create jobs at the slots. We create jobs at the racetrack. We create jobs at the local businesses, the local restaurants and the local malls. That’s how the cluster should work.

Tourism can be an extremely important cluster right across the province of Ontario. We know what it does for Toronto, with the tourists who are here—it’s incredible every day—from all over the world. So the clusters can work. I know I got a little bit off topic there, but I think it’s important to talk about how clusters can work and put people back to work.

I didn’t talk—and I should, I guess, for the people who are from Toronto. I don’t know how many are in the room today who are from Toronto. There’s an auto plant right here on the highway in Oakville. It’s a very good plant, Local 707, producing great products. They just had a big announcement of more jobs down there. They’re running full out. It’s a really good local, a really good plant: high quality, highly skilled.

What happens in Oakville—I saw you put your hand up. What happens in Oakville? It’s the same thing. Right? In the plants there, the workers are going to work six, seven days a week. The skilled trades are in there working. What happens outside? You have all the other businesses outside that are feeding off that plant—a great cluster for Oakville, right here in Toronto.

These are just a few of the industries that form the automotive and industrial cluster from southern Ontario.

I would like to mention—because it has helped with the tourism cluster in Niagara Falls, with the plant operating at SpencerARL, with the GM plant getting the investment with the new V6—sorry, the new transmission line. A new engine line, by the way, also came to St. Catharines.

Why is that? Why are people choosing Ontario to do business?

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: It’s a good place to invest.

Mr. Wayne Gates: It’s the best. It’s the best place to invest.

There’s no doubt that the cluster will work. It’s because of the workers. It’s because they’re highly skilled. It’s because of how well they do their jobs. We produce.

I want to be clear on this for all my colleagues here: We have nothing to be ashamed of in the province of Ontario when it comes to producing automobiles in this country. We produce the best automobiles because we have the best workers, we have the highest productivity and quality by far, and that’s the reason they come to Ontario. I just wanted to throw that out.

Mr. Steve Clark: You should put some music behind that. That was a good commercial.

Mr. Wayne Gates: I can’t sing; I’m sorry. I would if I could. I can’t sing at all.

I can tell you, I am so proud of the workers of Ontario in the automotive sector and a lot of other sectors right across the province, because we are the best. We’ve got to get them to work. We’ve got to get everybody back to work. We still have too much unemployment.

There are a few of the industries that form the automotive and industrial clusters found in southern Ontario.

I find it interesting that this Liberal government has language like this in the bill—or maybe it isn’t so confusing. The bill is particularly vague—and that’s my concern with the bill—when it comes to the language around it and the support of the clusters. Remember, I used that example: “may” and “shall.” That’s why it’s important to have strong language when you put a bill together: “We shall do this.” “We shall do that.” “We may do a report once a year” or “We can extend that report”—those types of things are not, and why I say it’s vague.

This bill says, “Ontario can act as a catalyst to spur the development of clusters. By working with businesses and other entities to develop plans with respect to the development of clusters, Ontario can promote the growth of jobs and the economy.” It sounds great, doesn’t it? I can say I support that 100%. I support this province acting as a prime supporter of our businesses’ clusters and working with key players in those sectors to create a strong development of our economy. I’m sure my colleagues heard that.

Mr. Speaker, maybe this bill means a big shift in policy from the Liberal government of two weeks ago.

Some time ago, Ford approached the province of Ontario with a plan. It was going to develop a small fuel-efficient engine right here in Ontario. It was going to tap into the manufacturing cluster that exists in Windsor—I never talked about that cluster, but there is a really good cluster in Windsor—use our hard workers, use our access to resources, our industrial strength. They were going to expand their operations to produce that engine right here in Ontario. By tapping into the manufacturing sector in Windsor, they were going to create 1,000 jobs.

We’ve got economists who say that for every one job created directly in the automotive plant, there are six spinoff jobs—some say it’s as high as eight—created for the economy. So for 1,000 jobs, that’s an extra 6,000 people, roughly, who would go back to work, and in this case, including the 460 people who are on layoff currently in that plant.

I talked to their chairperson yesterday about this, and he agrees: We have to be more proactive; we have to sit down and make sure, with all the stakeholders, so that we’re getting in the front door of these investments and finding out how we can make sure that when companies are going to invest, they’re going to invest right here in Ontario. I think it’s important that all the stakeholders do that and find the best way to be more proactive than reactive to these types of investments. I think, collectively, we can do that, and I believe that everybody agrees with that as well.

These are not poor minimum wage jobs without benefits, but safe, secure jobs—oh, I’m sorry. You stand, I sit.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bas Balkissoon): Thank you. This House stands recessed until 10:30 a.m.

The House recessed from 1015 to 1030.

Introduction of Visitors

Hon. Ted McMeekin: I’m pleased this morning to introduce Anne and Chris French from my riding, the parents of Elijah French, who I’d like to congratulate on being page captain for today. Please join me in welcoming them.

Ms. Peggy Sattler: I’m very pleased to welcome three guests who are here today: Paul Smith from the Canadian Association of Career Educators and Employers; and Lisa Whalen and Kirk Patterson, who are from Education at Work Ontario. Welcome.

Mr. Mike Colle: I’m pleased to welcome here to Queen’s Park the World Lebanese Cultural Union, who will be raising their flag at 12 noon here today in front of Queen’s Park, and everybody is welcome.

With us today we have Judge George E. Khouri, the world chairman of the Commission of International Relations, World Lebanese Cultural Union; Rita Houkayem, youth chair of the World Lebanese Cultural Union, Toronto, and former Miss Lebanon Emigrant 2013; and John Gideon, treasurer, World Lebanese Cultural Union, Toronto. Welcome to the provincial Legislature.

Mr. Bob Delaney: On behalf of the member for Scarborough Southwest, I’d like to recognize not merely page captain Kate Beverly, but she’s joined here by her mom, Karen Beverly; her dad, Rob Beverly; and her brother, Jack Beverly. They will also be in the members’ gallery this morning and I hope members welcome her family.

Hon. David Zimmer: I would like to introduce two young community activists from Willowdale who do lots of stuff in Willowdale and worked very hard on my campaign: Frank Hong, who also is a former page, and Theo Poenaru. They’re in the east gallery. Stand up.

Mrs. Marie-France Lalonde: It gives me great pleasure, on behalf of, I hope, all members, to say a happy birthday to one of our colleagues who is celebrating her birthday on November 22. Donc, j’aimerais souhaiter une joyeuse fête, une bonne fête, à notre collègue Madeleine Meilleur, qui célèbre son anniversaire samedi.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thirty-nine?

Further introductions.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Today is a very special day for me because I have several members of my family joining us. I’m going to ask the opposition: If you’re going to demand my resignation, wait until Monday, okay? Don’t embarrass me in front of my family.

I’m delighted that my sisters Dona Matthews and Virginia Lato are here. Others are coming: my sister Shelley Peterson; my sister Carole Matthews; my father, Don Matthews; his sisters, Shirley Pettigrew and Barb Rutherford; Anne Pettigrew, my cousin; Nancy Rutherford; and Thelma Abriam. We’re all delighted to be here today celebrating democracy in action.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Welcome.

It is now time for question period.

Oral Questions

Taxation

Mr. Jim Wilson: My question is for the Premier. Premier, by 2017-18 the government expects to squander over 10 cents of every revenue dollar collected by Queen’s Park towards servicing your Liberal government’s reckless and unaffordable debt. That’s taxpayers’ money that should be reinvested in front-line health care, first-rate education, reliable roads and transit.

Instead of showing leadership and taking decisive action, you’re going to force hard-working Ontarians to pay more for a decade of Liberal mismanagement.

Premier, what taxes will you raise on Ontario’s families in order to service that debt and balance the books?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, let me just say that we’ve been very clear about the path to balance that we have laid out. We understand that it’s extremely important that we continue to constrain increases on wages. We laid out clearly that we were going to be looking at the assets that are owned by the people of Ontario and making sure that they are working to the best advantage of the people of Ontario, and that’s the work that Ed Clark and his commission are doing.

We also recognize that as the economic recovery takes hold, it’s extremely important that we make the investments that are necessary so that we can continue to create jobs and work with municipalities to make sure that communities grow, because the economic well-being of communities across this province is part of the economic well-being of the province.

We have laid that all out in our budget, then in our platform and then in our budget again, and that’s the plan we’re implementing.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jim Wilson: Back to the Premier: Premier, because of your inability to stop spending and reverse course, Ontario has a half-a-billion-dollar shortfall this year alone.

Ontarians cannot afford any more money taken out of their pockets. They cannot afford new and higher taxes.

On the issue of a carbon tax, your environment minister has said, “It is time for all of us to start to get Comfortable with two words: carbon tax. Without it, all these dreams of a green tomorrow are hallucinations.”

So, Premier, a straightforward question: Will you be introducing a carbon tax on hard-working Ontario families before 2018? Yes or no?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, what we are focused on is making sure that we do everything in our power to grow the economy. We understand that balancing the books and making sure that the deficit is reduced by 2017-18 is very much a part of the task in front of us, but we also know that building on the success of creating over 500,000 net new jobs since the recession, the lowest unemployment rate since the recession, at 6.5%—we recognize that building on those successes is what we have to do if we are going to be successful over the next decade.

The investments that we’re talking about that will ease people’s commutes, that will make sure that communities have the roads and bridges that they need, the hospitals and the schools—those contribute to a quality of life that is critical to the economic and the social well-being of the people in this province.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Mr. Jim Wilson: Well, Mr. Speaker, it sounds like a yes to me.

Premier, Laurel Broten, a former Ontario Liberal environment minister and cabinet colleague of yours, is calling on the Nova Scotia government to introduce a carbon tax.

Quebec implemented a carbon tax in 2007 and then became part of the Western Climate Initiative. In August 2014, you announced a strengthened relationship with Quebec on the issue of climate change. Your news release even quoted Premier Couillard as saying, “We are looking forward to recruiting new partners among our neighbours.”

Well, to be a partner, you have to have a carbon tax. So, Premier, do you plan on joining Quebec and imposing a carbon tax on Ontario families?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, here’s what we’re joining with Quebec on: an acknowledgment that reducing greenhouse gas emissions and dealing with the effects of climate change is a challenge for every single one of us. The member opposite is the first to jump up if there is a tornado or if there is a flood or if there is an indication of the impact of climate change.

On this side of the House, we believe that climate change is a reality that we have to deal with—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Renfrew will come to order.

Carry on, please.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The single most important thing that has been done in this country in terms of reducing greenhouse gas emissions is the shutdown of coal-fired plants in Ontario.

Are we going to continue to fight climate change? Are we going to continue to do everything in our power to guarantee that there is a world for our children in the future? Absolutely.

Education funding

Mr. Jim Wilson: Mr. Speaker, we can play the shell game all we want. A tax is a tax is a tax, whether you call it a carbon tax or not, Premier.

Back to the Premier: During the last election you called cuts to education “dangerous for children.” In fact, you said cuts to education funding were “detrimental and have such a negative impact on so many people’s lives in this province” that you would never support them. Yet you’re now planning to cut $500 million from the education budget because of your fiscal mismanagement. You claimed that these cuts were dangerous during the election, yet now your government is taking millions of dollars out of the classroom. Premier, is this just another case of you saying one thing and then doing another?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The fact is that our government has increased funding to the education system every single year we’ve been in office, and we’re continuing to do that. We’ve increased education finding to $22 billion this year. That’s an increase of 56.5% since 2003, an increase of more than $4,000 per student.

The fact is that we have made sure that the resources that go into education go into advanced student achievement. We came into office and 68% of kids were graduating from high school in this province; 83% of kids are graduating from high school in Ontario now. The reality is that, at a time of declining enrolment, we have continued to increase funding to the education system because we know that’s how the talents and skills of our kids can thrive.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Jim Wilson: Again to the Premier: Your former Liberal colleague and successor as education minister, Leona Dombrowsky said, “The government believes locally elected school boards have sound processes in place to make decisions about school closures in consultation with their communities.” You’ve said similar things many times. Yet yesterday, your current education minister made it pretty clear in this House that you will not fund under-capacity schools, leaving the impression that the minister will make the decision on what schools will close.

Premier, which is it? Will individual school boards decide which schools will close, if any? Or will you order the school closings yourself?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: In fact, what I heard the Minister of Education say was that we have to make sure that we fund the students and the places in the schools—the students that exist—that we will make sure that we work with school boards to maximize the investments in their school boards, to make sure that the programs that are available to kids are the ones that they absolutely need.

I’ve been a school trustee. I fully support the authority of school boards to make decisions about program delivery to students. But it is only responsible that we work as a provincial government with school boards—something, I might say, the member opposite doesn’t know a lot about, given their track record in government—to make sure that the distribution of kids is in schools in the best way possible and that we’re not funding empty or half-empty schools.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Jim Wilson: I don’t need any lectures, after 24 and a half years in this House, serving school boards, preaching for good education and supporting good education.

Premier, as education minister you said, “It would in fact be irresponsible—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock, please. Order.

Please finish.

Mr. Jim Wilson: As education minister you said, “It would in fact be irresponsible for any government to tie the hands of local school boards to make decisions about their communities.” However, by slashing half a billion dollars from the education budget, you’re doing exactly that. You’re making school closures, particularly in rural and small-town Ontario, a done deal.

Premier, very simply, when will you release the list of the schools you’re planning to close?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Let me repeat: We are increasing funding to the education system. In the face of declining enrolment, we are increasing the funding to school boards. That’s a fact. That is the reality. That is the reality that school boards are dealing with.

Will we continue to work with school boards to make sure that kids are getting the programs that they need, that there are enough kids in schools to make them viable? Absolutely, we will continue to work with school boards.

Will we work with school boards to help them to consolidate where there’s an opportunity for school boards to work together? Absolutely, we will do that. I think that is responsible management of the public dollars in this province.

Will we continue to work with school boards to improve student achievement as we have done—and we have seen student achievement increase? Absolutely, we will do that.

Will we fund empty spaces and will we step back from the process? No, we will continue to work with school boards.

Education funding

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. Yesterday the Premier said, “The reality is that we continue to put more money into education.” But an internal document says that under the Liberal austerity plan, “The recent pattern of annual increases in education funding is no longer sustainable.” Internally, the Liberals say that half a billion dollars is going to be slashed from schools. In public, the Premier is playing good cop, telling Ontarians that they are going to be putting more into education, and in private she’s being bad cop and saying that the well is dry, Speaker. Why is the Premier telling one story in public and another story behind closed doors?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know the Minister of Education is going to want to weigh in on this, but let me repeat what I have said: We continue to put more money into education. Even in the face of declining enrolment, that is what we have been doing.

The reality is that there are ways of school boards working together—and I’ll use transportation as the example that is the farthest along. The reality is that we have worked over a number of years, in fact since I was Minister of Transportation, to make sure that school boards have the capacity to work together and that they have the ability to have kids from different boards and different schools on the same school bus, so that school buses driving down a particular road pick up kids and take them to a number of schools.

That kind of co-operation, whether it’s transportation or whether it’s back office or whether it’s sharing buildings—yes, we’re going to continue to try to work to find those efficiencies.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Despite the Premier’s denials, internal documents say clearly that she’s slashing $500 million from schools. As a former Minister of Education and school board trustee, the Premier knows that it’s always the most vulnerable students who suffer the most from this. Whether it’s school closures or cuts to special needs, ESL, school breakfast programs, libraries, literacy and numeracy supports or counselling services, the bottom line is that it’s going to hurt students.

Will the Premier commit to putting that half a billion dollars back into our schools, where it belongs?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: On so many issues it is so dangerous to oversimplify and to take a particular notion and extrapolate that across a whole issue. The fact is that there are many, many instances across the province where school boards have made decisions about consolidating schools, and the programs have improved. Those very students that the leader of the third party is talking about get better service, Mr. Speaker, they get better opportunities, they have more opportunities because of the consolidation of a school board or because of the building of a new building.

More times than not, when there’s a consolidation of schools, there is a renovation or a new school built. So I think to oversimplify this issue and to somehow suggest that the fact that we’re putting more money in education is a problem is irresponsible.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, there’s nothing simple about it. Slashing half a billion dollars from education is going to mean ripping schools out of some communities and overcrowding others. It’s going to mean program cuts. It’s going to hurt the most vulnerable students in our schools, and this Premier knows that’s true. The Premier created chaos in our school system with Bill 115, and she’s creating chaos again with a half-a-billion-dollar cut to schools.

If she’s not prepared to put the money back into our schools, will she stand up and tell parents and educators exactly what it is that she’s going to be cutting from them?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Education.

Hon. Liz Sandals: I think I’d like to start by talking a little bit about the funding model, because classrooms are funded, as you well know, Speaker, based on the number of students. Looking at boards and working with boards on whether they can operate the space more efficiently has nothing to do with the number of teachers or the amount of special ed money. That’s all based on the number of students, and it has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.

What we do believe is that it’s perfectly reasonable to work with trustees and say to them, “In terms of your operations,” which is heating, lighting, space, “we can work together to make it more efficient.”

All we’re saying is good management, no matter who you are, involves good management of space.

Health care

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My next question is for the Premier. In health care, just as in education, before the election we were promised that things would get better. After the election, we see that things are getting much worse. Today, Health Quality Ontario released its annual report, and they say, “Access to care continues to be a problem in many areas of our health system.”

When Ontario is compared to 10 countries, including Great Britain and the United States, we come dead last—dead last—when it comes to getting people in to see a doctor when they are sick. Yes, we even do worse than the US, Speaker.

Does the Premier think it’s okay that Ontarians wait longer to see a doctor than patients in 10 other countries?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The fact is, we know that there is more that we can do. We have been working to transform the health care system. There are a number of areas where wait times have been reduced, and we have made a lot of progress.

But we also know that we’re dealing with an aging population that needs a different kind of service, that needs more service at home, and that’s the transformation that we are in the midst of. We’re not proposing that we are finished with the transformation of the health care system. We know that there’s more that has to be done, and part of that is getting the right services to people where they need them, whether that is in a hospital or whether that is at home or whether that is in some other kind of supportive housing.

This is an issue that is ongoing. We know that there’s more to be done, and we are investing in those changes in order to get to those successes.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: During the election, the Premier said, “Ontario will be the healthiest place in North America to grow up and grow old.” But now that the election is over, the Health Quality Ontario report says that long-term-care wait times for residents in hospitals have never been higher. They’re higher today than at any other point since the Liberals came to office, tripling from just 18 days in 2004 to a staggering 65 days. Under this Liberal government, seniors are waiting longer than ever in hospital for the long-term care that they need.

How healthy does the Premier think it is to have seniors waiting over two months for long-term care that they need?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: We welcome the release of Health Quality Ontario’s report. It’s called Measuring Up. We’re committed to providing the best patient care possible.

We have adopted a process of transformation that has provided different kinds of service and has allowed people to get service at home, in the community, where they haven’t been able to get it before. Are we finished? Absolutely not. But there are many areas in the report that show the successes that we have achieved. Measuring Up talks about the fact that Ontarians are healthier than they have ever been.

The fact is that the work we are doing is actually providing services that people need, providing them with the services that they’ve been looking for, and providing them in their homes and in the community, where they weren’t able to get them before.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: During the campaign, the Premier promised she would hire nurses, not fire them. In fact, she said, “I’m not going to apologize for hiring nurses.” But after the campaign, the truth comes out. Every year for the last five years, we’ve had fewer registered nurses looking after our kids, our parents and our loved ones.

Ontario Nurses’ Association president Linda Haslam-Stroud uses words like “appalled”—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock, please. Order, please. That’s better. Thank you.

Finish, please.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: ONA president Linda Haslam-Stroud uses words like “appalled,” “disgusted” and “horrified” to describe what’s going on in parts of this province under this Liberal government. Registered nurse positions are being eliminated all over Ontario, creating an appalling situation in this province.

So I ask this Premier, will she apologize for that?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Let’s talk about the facts. The fact is that we have hired over 20,000 nurses, Mr. Speaker. Let’s talk about the fact that we’ve established 26 nurse-practitioner-led clinics. Let’s talk about the fact that we have now got 10 aboriginal community health centres, 76 community health centres and 200 family health teams.

We have diversified the ways in which people can access primary health care. We have hired more professionals, and we have put them into interdisciplinary teams that are delivering health care in a way that makes sense to people in communities across the province. That’s why the Health Quality Ontario report is able to say that Ontarians are healthier than ever.

We will continue to make investments and continue to transform the health care system so that it meets the needs of the people of this province.

Government accountability

Ms. Sylvia Jones: My question is to the Premier. Repeated warnings about the structural problems at the Algo Centre Mall in Elliot Lake were ignored by your government. On January 11, 2012, an inspector from the Ministry of Labour performed an inspection of the mall that, to quote Justice Bélanger, “was perfunctory, incurious and inadequate.”

You have not apologized on behalf of your government for playing a

part in the mall’s collapse. An apology can go a long way. It can help speed up the healing process after a tragedy. Premier, will you apologize for your government’s lack of oversight, which contributed to this tragedy?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know that the Minister of Labour is going to want to speak to the specifics. I just want to say that we have said all along, and I have said all along, that our hearts go out to the community members, particularly to the family of the woman who died in the collapse of the mall. I’m very—

Interjection.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Sorry, the two people who perished.

I am very pleased that the report has exposed the issues that needed to have been dealt with, and I will let the Minister of Labour speak to the specifics.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Ms. Sylvia Jones: I think it would mean a great deal more if you actually went to Elliot Lake and did that formal apology, as you did with the other examples that we have.

In 2009, your government passed the Apology Act, which allows a person to apologize on a specific issue. The Attorney General at the time said this bill “gives people the opportunity to have closure, to speak frankly in relation to an issue, whether it’s a health care issue or a legal issue or some other matter, without having those comments that they’re making used against them in a court of law.”

You have an opportunity to show real leadership and apologize to the people of Elliot Lake for your lack of oversight. Premier, when will you apologize to the people of Elliot Lake?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Labour.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: I think I can speak for all members of the House that we were all saddened when we heard the news of this mall collapse. Our thoughts and our prayers have been with the families ever since then.

We would also, I think, all in this House, like to thank the Honourable Paul Bélanger for his work on this matter, for the report on this matter, for the recommendations he has made. All the ministries involved are reviewing the report. We’re working together. We’re looking at the recommendations that are contained within it. Some of the recommendations that have come forward, we’ve already acted upon.

I know one engineer has been charged under the Occupational Health and Safety Act in relation to the mall collapse. The individual was charged as a professional engineer for endangering a worker as a result of providing negligent advice, and as a worker for working in a manner that may endanger a worker.

Speaker, we were all saddened at the news. I think it’s the intent of this House that this type of tragedy never happen again in the province of Ontario.

Government accountability

Mr. Percy Hatfield: My question is for the Premier. Good morning, Premier.

Speaker, the Liberals keep saying they’re being transparent. They say they are telling the whole story on MaRS. Yet on page 1 of the agreement that the Liberals signed with MaRS, it says, “OILC has advised the borrower that its loan application number 11039, dated August 2, 2011, has been approved.” But, Speaker, the actual application paperwork for the loan is nowhere to be found.

Premier, where is the application?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure.

Hon. Brad Duguid: I have instructed my deputy minister to release all documents that were requested, both during the time at estimates that I spent with the member and from the media. All requests for information have been released.

For these loan programs, the application process is online. If a request is made to release that application, we’re happy to do it. I’ve actually seen the application. There’s nothing in it you don’t already have, but it’s something I’m happy to ask my deputy minister to have a look at, just to make sure it’s something that’s suitable for release. If it’s his determination that it is, I’ll be happy to release it.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Percy Hatfield: Well, let’s cut to the chase. The Liberals have not released the business case for the loan that they made to MaRS—you haven’t done it—a loan, Speaker, by the way, they had to bail out in secret during the election. They’re not even releasing the loan application yet.

This government still hasn’t explained why this multi-million dollar project, contingent on an 80% occupancy in order to be worth the investment, was allowed to go forward. What is the Premier so desperate to keep away from the public?

Hon. Brad Duguid: I’m glad the member modified his supplementary question to put the word “yet” in, because I just said yes to his request, and I’m not sure why he would not take that as an answer.

Mr. Speaker, we’ve released all the information we’ve been asked to release, and lo and behold, the information just confirms what we’ve been saying all along. We’ve made an investment by way of a loan, that is 100% secure, to ensure that phase 2 of MaRS could continue and get built. It has been built. Now the key is to make sure it gets leased up. We’ve made an interjection in the transaction by buying out ARE to ensure that that can now happen.

I’m awaiting advice from Michael Nobrega and Carol Stephenson to determine what the next steps are, but they’ve told me that this project is not a failed project. Indeed, with their advice, we should be able to get it back onto a positive keel. I hope I’ll have the member’s support when we get to that point.

Anti-bullying initiatives

Mr. Bob Delaney: This question is for the Minister of Education. Minister, this week is Bullying Awareness and Prevention Week. In western Mississauga, we have an outstanding school that has done some groundbreaking work in creating an open, supportive and accepting learning environment for all students.

St. Joseph Secondary School in the Dufferin-Peel Catholic District School Board won a Premier’s Award for Accepting Schools last year for its accomplishments in creating a gay-straight alliance formed by a group of students who wanted to connect in a safe space. In Mississauga, St. Joseph’s has provided Ontario with a template for excellence in a productive learning environment.

Minister, what has Ontario done province-wide to help all students feel safe while learning?

Hon. Liz Sandals: I’d like to add my congratulations to St. Joseph Secondary School in Mississauga for winning the Premier’s award.

During this week, I hope that everyone will take some time to consider the issue of bullying and the role it may be playing in their lives or the lives of others. Every student has the right to feel safe and accepted at school. If the students don’t feel safe, they can’t be at their very best.

That’s why I’m so very proud of our government’s Accepting Schools Act. The act requires boards to provide supports for the bully, the bullied and the bystander, and requires principals to investigate all reports of bullying. The government has invested over $425 million in Safe Schools initiatives that are helping to make Ontario schools safe. We’ve defined bullying in legislation and we are making great progress on the whole issue of bullying prevention.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Bob Delaney: Thank you, Minister. St. Joseph school’s work is led by its principal, Jeff Quenneville, whom I’ve come to know and respect. In fact, Jeff himself is one of this year’s award winners for building an accepting school climate. The administration and staff at St. Joseph’s have developed a healthy and respectful relationship among students throughout the entire school and in the surrounding community.

When this House considered bullying in Bill 13 last year, it saw that repeated, persistent and aggressive behaviour directed at an individual or individuals does cause fear and distress. Bullying involves more than physical and verbal violence. It includes social and cyberbullying.

Minister, how is Ontario addressing cyberbullying in respect to kids, computers and cellphones?

Hon. Liz Sandals: Thank you to the member for this very important question.

Cyberbullying has been a concern of our government and the Safe Schools Action Team for a number of years. That’s why the Accepting Schools Act explicitly defines cyberbullying as part of its definition of bullying.

If a principal believes that actions that occurred online had a negative impact on the school climate, the principal legally has the authority to take action. Ontario’s actually pretty unique in that respect because we know that when students bully each other outside of school online and come into the school, they don’t feel safe and then they can’t succeed. We know that we need to have a way for principals and teachers to intervene in the cyberbullying and the life of the student so that we can ensure that schools are a safe and accepting place for all our students, and that we will not tolerate bullying.

Disaster relief

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: My question is for the Premier.

Municipalities are still waiting for the millions the government promised to help them clean up from last year’s ice storm. They have yet to see a dime.

My question is this: How many thousands of dollars that should be going to municipalities for disaster relief are instead being spent on consulting fees?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: I appreciate the question. Let me just try to bring as much clarity to it as quickly as I can. Our government, in response to some input from AMO and a number of communities that were stricken with difficulties—I think there were 53 that qualified—responded by putting in place a $190-million fund that could be drawn upon.

We, of course, met with and provided training sessions for municipalities as to how to complete the accountability paperwork that was necessary. They’re working very, very hard at that. All of those sessions, by the way, were done internally by ministry staff. Sessions were done. Municipalities are processing their claims as quickly as they can. I’m pleased to say that as the paperwork comes in, we’re releasing that money.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: I didn’t hear an answer there.

The Liberals hired a consulting firm, LandLink Consulting, to manage the process—so far with nothing to show for it. Now the government is telling municipal staff to register for a two-hour-long webinar just to learn how to fill out paperwork. Who is putting on the red tape webinar? LandLink. Who is in charge of reviewing the applications? LandLink. Who’s paying for all this? Taxpayers. How much will it cost? The Liberals won’t say.

Does the minister really have so little confidence in his own ministry that he would sign a secret deal with a private consulting firm? Or did he do it to evade accountability, like the Liberals did with eHealth and Ornge?

Hon. Ted McMeekin: I just did a quick check with one of my colleagues here around consulting fees, and just adding to my answer, in 2001-02, the Progressive Conservatives, when they were in government, invested $650 million in consultants. In the last three years, our figure is under $300 million.

We’re working hard to curb the hiring of separate consultants, doing the job internally and working very hard with municipalities around their needs—something that government didn’t do a lot of when they were in power.

Health care

Miss Monique Taylor: My question is to the Premier. This government maintains that health care is not one of the ministries that will be cut by 6%, according to their budget. In my community of Hamilton Mountain, people are proud to be employed in health care, serving their neighbours who may need that care.

Lakeview Lodge is one of those places. It allows cancer patients receiving care at the world-class facility, the Juravinski Cancer Centre, to stay close by. They don’t have to travel back and forth while they receive treatment that often makes them very sick. There, they receive immediate attention by trained medical staff on site—unionized staff—who can assess their needs and send them for emergency care at the nearby cancer centre if they need it. But now, Lakeview Lodge is slated to close, throwing cancer patients out to find lodging at area motels. My question is simple: Does the Premier think this is acceptable?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I’m happy to speak with the member opposite about this specific situation that she has described in Hamilton.

The accurate response to this question is that we are making massive and significant investments in health care in our province, including in cancer care right across the province—

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Including in Hamilton.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: —and including in Hamilton, to the point where Cancer Care Ontario and our cancer prevention and treatment support system in this province is seen as among the best, if not the best, in the entire world.

I won’t deny that there may be a local situation. I’m happy to speak with the member opposite to get a better understanding of precisely what her concerns are. But I think it’s important that Ontarians understand the significant investments and what they’re providing for the people in care.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Miss Monique Taylor: Mr. Speaker, I don’t think the minister was listening. I was talking about the facility next door.

The reason that we’re told Lakeview must close is because of the freeze in hospital budgets in the last three years by this Liberal government, what the NDP and many others have said amounts to cuts in our health care system.

My constituents want to know what non-union, non-health care cleaning staff are supposed to do when a cancer patient becomes sick from chemotherapy. Will the people in these motels know how to handle and dispose of it properly? Now these patients will have to take cabs and ambulances back to the hospital if they’re urgent, where before the on-site nurse would be able to respond.

Speaker, it’s this government’s policies that have shut down Lakeview Lodge. Is the Premier going to intervene to keep Lakeview open?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Again, this is a decision that was made by the local hospital.

It simply isn’t true to talk about a lack of investments in our hospitals when in fact hospital operating budgets in the last 10 years in this province have gone up by an average of 50%.

We expect, in this particular case, as we would expect anywhere in the province, that the hospital and the LHIN that is supporting that hospital will continue to provide support to any changes made to the housing of patients, whether they be cancer patients or other patients who are in need of housing support. Again, I’m happy to talk with the member opposite.

We continue to support our hospitals. The funding has increased dramatically over the past decade. Changes are being made as we transfer more of that support into home and community care so that individuals can appropriately be cared for as close to home as possible.

Ontario public service

Ms. Eleanor McMahon: Ma question s’adresse à la présidente du Conseil du Trésor.

Minister, I understand that the Ontario public service has once again been chosen one of Canada’s top 100 employers for 2015. That’s great news. I would like to offer my congratulations to the Ontario public service, and in particular the members of the OPS who live in my riding of Burlington, who have served and continue to serve our province with unflinching dedication decade after decade.

I am proud to say that we have dedicated and committed individuals in our public service. It is an honour and a privilege to work with them. We rely on their advice, professionalism and expertise to help us make Ontario the best place to live, work and do business. They deliver vital services to our citizens in communities large and small and help propel this province forward.

Minister, can you please tell this House how it is that the OPS has been recognized once again with this great honour?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Thank you to the member from Burlington for this really important question.

Speaker, this award gives us a great opportunity to say thank you to the public servants in this province who work so hard for Ontarians every single day.

Being seen as a leading employer is important to attracting and retaining the best and the brightest for the OPS.

It’s not the first time the OPS has won this prestigious award. In fact, it’s the fifth time that the Ontario public service has been chosen a top 100 employer in Canada.

Transformation of our public services continues to move forward—to change the way public services are delivered in Ontario, to give Ontario families the best possible value for money and streamline access to the services that they need. We’re counting on our public service to drive that change. We have the best public service in the world, and I’m very proud to work with them every day.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Eleanor McMahon: Thank you, Minister. I agree, as, I’m sure, would every member of this House who has worked with the extraordinary, talented and dedicated members of our public service. We can’t say enough about the important work they do and the significant contribution they make to our province. The OPS is instrumental in creating and implementing the policies and programs that Ontarians rely on, and we are thrilled that their achievements are being recognized and commended as a model employer.

I imagine there is stiff competition amongst employers to be chosen for one of these awards, which I understand were announced in the Globe and Mail two weeks ago. Minister, could you please enlighten us on just how the OPS was selected for this honour and what criteria are used to choose the top employers?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I am delighted to provide a little background. Each year, an organization, Mediacorp, conducts research into the recruitment histories of more than 80,000 employers across Canada. Then they invite 35,000 organizations to apply for Canada’s Top 100 Employers competition. So 80,000 employers, and we were chosen in the top 100.

Participants provide a detailed description of their operations and HR practices, including key areas such as the physical workplace, the work atmosphere, health, diversity, environmental leadership, assisting recent immigrants, charitable efforts and community involvement. Winners are selected based on comparisons to other organizations within their respective sectors, and I am delighted to say that Western University was also chosen as a top 100 employer.

The OPS has led and will continue to lead by example to set the highest standards possible for other employers to emulate. These prestigious awards acknowledge those accomplishments.

Child care

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: My question today is for the Minister of Education. Minister, yesterday, in a friendly Liberal question, you said, “By playing games, the opposition is delaying implementing safety measures for our children.”

I know I’ve asked questions in this House; many of us have. We have participated in rallies across the province. We have asked for committee travel to Ontario’s municipalities. I have met with the Ombudsman. We have started petitions in opposition to the flawed Bill 10, and we will propose amendments to Bill 10. And finally, we have answered hundreds of letters and emails that your members ignored.

Minister, we have done our job as the official opposition. You, on the other hand, have simply time-allocated debate and committee time on this very important yet very flawed bill. So, Minister, can you explain to the House and to the people of Ontario exactly what games we are playing, and will you stand in your place and do the honourable thing and actually apologize for such a rude comment?

Hon. Liz Sandals: Yes, certainly, and I’m very—I’m very proud of Bill 10, because Bill 10, for the first time ever, gives our ministry, gives my inspectors, the authority to deal with unlicensed child care violations.

Now, I want to make it clear: Unlicensed home child care is totally legitimate and part of the child care scenario in Ontario, and we expect it to stay that way. But what we do want to do is make sure that no matter what form of child care someone chooses, be it a child care centre or home care, either licensed or unlicensed, that every single form of child care in Ontario is safe. If people break the rules, my inspectors will, under Bill 10, have the authority to deal with it.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: Well, Mr. Speaker, she didn’t say anything about us playing games, but she said it yesterday in a friendly question.

Minister, you proudly mentioned your Ottawa meeting last Friday. I know as a fact that participants from the independent child care providers had no idea that you would attend that meeting. It was to be the Ottawa area Liberal MPPs only. It was a surprise that you were in attendance. I guess you just happened to fly into the area. But let’s face it: You kept it a secret from the public because you knew that it would draw a demonstration double the size of the 300-plus who rallied outside of your office in Guelph on November 9. That was the day you just drove by.

So, Minister, who is really playing games: the official opposition or the Minister of Education who has not the courage to face and speak to people on a badly flawed Bill 10?

Hon. Liz Sandals: The member just demonstrated games-playing: Some woman with brown hair in a brown car drove by my office. Has anybody ever seen me? I have white hair. That’s games.

However, I was really excited to visit with home care providers and the Child Care Providers Resource Network in Ottawa. I actually think it was a great opportunity for me to have a calm, private conversation where we were actually able to sit down and discuss the issues. I think that’s what a minister, or any other MPP, needs to do, which is to sit down and calmly discuss issues.

Hospital funding

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Premier. The gridlock crisis is getting even worse in Thunder Bay regional hospital. There have been too many patients and too few beds over 85% of this year. In fact, the hospital declared gridlock for almost four months straight this year. Every day that it operates, 36 unfunded beds are being operated to meet the needs of the residents, Speaker—beds that receive no funding at all from this Liberal government.

Does the Premier think it’s acceptable to leave Thunder Bay hospital stuck in gridlock?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Health.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Well, of course not, and we’re not leaving them to deal with this challenge on their own. In fact, I recently was in Thunder Bay joined by two members, the member from Thunder Bay–Superior North and the member from Thunder Bay–Atikokan—great members who are very concerned about the situation of health care in their localities, as they should be. We’re making important progress. The hospital itself acknowledges, and acknowledged in that meeting, that we are making progress with dealing with the challenges that they are facing.

In fact, it was not that long ago this year that we announced an additional $14 million specifically to deal with the challenges faced by Thunder Bay regional hospital, the kinds of pressures that the leader of the third party has indicated. This additional funding specifically is going to support not just one institution in Thunder Bay, but the three largest health care providers—the regional health sciences centre, St. Joseph’s Care Group and North West Community Care Access Centre—to solve these problems.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Well, according to Thunder Bay regional hospital, it will take years for the gridlock problem to be fixed with the current level of funding that they are receiving from this Liberal government. The hospital says it is “experiencing an erosion”—an erosion—“of its ability to meet its acute care service mandate.” That’s a disgrace, Speaker. Thunder Bay regional hospital is being stretched to the limit because this government simply will not fix the problem.

Premier, exactly how many more years will the people of Thunder Bay have to wait for this Liberal government to fix the gridlock crisis at their hospital?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Well, Mr. Speaker, we are fixing the challenges faced by Thunder Bay regional hospital. I know the member perhaps doesn’t agree with this, but we are giving them precisely what they asked for.

That $14 million of funding is helping them recruit up to 10 full-time and 14 temporary emergency room doctors to improve access to urgent care, staff 10 new acute care hospital beds to treat up to 600 more patients per year, expand a nurse outreach program to provide up to 500 more seniors and people with complex needs with home care, create 26 new hospital beds to help more people with long-term illness or disabilities receive care and fund up to 17 more spaces in supportive housing to help our seniors and people in need of care remain independent.

Of course, there is always more work to be done, but we’re actually working in coordination and collaboration with the regional hospital and with the local MPPs. It’s working; we’re making progress. I hope that the member of the third party realizes that.

Ring of Fire

Mr. John Fraser: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Northern Development and Mines. Yesterday, my federal counterpart from Ottawa South questioned the federal government on their commitment to the Ring of Fire. The question underscored its national importance. It was alarming to hear the federal Minister of Natural Resources attempt to defend the federal government’s absence on the development of the Ring of Fire.

All members of this House recognize the importance of the Ring of Fire to Ontario’s economy and understand that the development is a project of national significance. Will the Minister of Northern Development and Mines please share how our government is stepping up to the plate and showing real leadership in the absence of the federal government, who would rather be on the sidelines?

Hon. Michael Gravelle: Thank you to the member from Ottawa South for the question. I will acknowledge that I was startled, if not somewhat irritated, by the stunningly inaccurate comments that were made by Minister Rickford in the House of Commons yesterday. Let me once again be very clear about our absolute commitment to the Ring of Fire as we are leading to drive development in that extraordinarily important economic development opportunity, despite a lack of any similar commitment from the federal government.

We’ve been absolutely clear in our $1-billion commitment to develop transportation infrastructure. We have established the Ring of Fire Infrastructure Development Corp.—we’re working with our partners to move that forward—and we’ve reached an historic framework agreement with the Matawa First Nation.

When the federal government says they’re waiting for us to demonstrate that this is an actual priority, that is nothing but an excuse—an excuse for their complete lack of commitment.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. John Fraser: The minister has made it clear that the Ring of Fire is indeed a priority for our government, highlighted in our most recent budget and last week’s fall economic statement. The Ring of Fire is an incredible opportunity for communities across this province and across Canada—

Interjections.

Mr. John Fraser: —and while I appreciate the words of encouragement, we’d all be farther ahead if they directed them toward their federal cousins.

The Premier has made it clear that our government is committed to leading the way on this project, with mineral potential worth up to $60 billion.

Can the minister please share how our government recognizes the need to work collaboratively with all parties when it comes to infrastructure development in the region?

Hon. Michael Gravelle: The heckling from the other side of the House is pretty interesting because I think it shows their embarrassment about the fact that they’re not willing to stand up to the federal government—

Interjections.

Hon. Michael Gravelle: We understand how important the infrastructure is in terms of access to the Ring of Fire. The development corporation itself is another significant step towards building it. We’re working very closely with First Nations, we’re working closely with industry and we’re working with communities across the province so that we can find the best way to tap into this extraordinary potential in the Ring of Fire.

We are going to continue to move forward, with the support of the Premier and all of us on this side of the House, to make sure that this project moves forward. It’s time the federal government stepped up to the plate with their funding so that we can signal that not only Ontario, but Canada is actually is open for business.

Infectious disease control

Mr. Toby Barrett: To the Minister of Health: I’m proposing legislation to better enable Ontario to deal with emerging infectious diseases—West Nile, Lyme, Ebola. There seems to be much work to be done on many fronts: diagnosis, treatment, prevention. The treatment of Lyme disease, for example, is fraught with conflicting medical, scientific, political and social dimensions, disputes that are long overdue for resolution.

Minister, we have government for a reason. Are there no adequate mechanisms in place to deal with some of these disputes?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I appreciate the question. In fact, the opposite is true. There are many measures, policies and procedures in place. The member opposite knows that this government and my ministry are not only committed to protecting the people of Ontario from vector-borne and zoonotic diseases, but we have effective policies and programs for all of the items that the member opposite mentioned: surveillance, prevention, control of zoonotic and vector-borne diseases, including promoting, importantly, the public awareness of these diseases and also emergency preparedness.

I appreciate the timeliness of the member’s private member’s bill because of the preparations that have been under way for quite some time in terms of Ebola preparedness. But you can appreciate, Mr. Speaker, being a public health specialist myself, with significant expertise precisely in these areas, I look at these policies and procedures and I look at them with great scrutiny.

I’m happy to continue in the supplementary.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Toby Barrett: Thank you, Minister. Over the past several months, I’ve developed legislation attempting to use a neutral, objective, science-based, research-based approach to emerging diseases like Ebola and Lyme. I am calling on your ministry to legislate a provincial framework, an action plan, encompassing surveillance, educational materials, as well as guidelines for prevention, identification, diagnosis, treatment and management, including emergency preparedness and sharing best practices.

The private member’s bill comes up this afternoon. It mandates research, as well as collaboration, consultation with all concerned—and in particular with the public. Not many people know what’s going on. They get information from websites and CNN, but there’s a bit of a gap.

Minister, there presently is no legislation requiring all of this. Are there any reasons why you would not support such an approach?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I welcome the private member’s bill. In fact, I’ll be participating in the debate about it later this afternoon. I can’t speak for my colleagues, but I will be supporting the bill this afternoon. But I do want to say, just so there’s no confusion or anxiety out there, that largely the reason that I can support it is because everything that Bill 27 is proposing is already in place to protect the people of Ontario from vector-borne and zoonotic diseases.

I sincerely want to thank the member from Haldimand–Norfolk for bringing this forward. I’m looking forward to the discussion and the debate. Quite frankly, we can always do more, so our government is very open to having discussions on how to continue to improve the surveillance, the prevention and the control of our vector-borne and zoonotic diseases.

Privatization of public assets

Mr. Wayne Gates: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier. Premier, the latest report from Ed Clark says that there is a market for the Ontario Power Generation’s assets like the smaller hydroelectric stations in Niagara Falls.

Despite how important they are to the Niagara region and their place in the city of Niagara Falls, the latest from Ed Clark implies they will be selling these stations to private buyers. Can the Premier elaborate on Ed Clark’s report and tell the people of Niagara if the government is planning on selling their hydroelectric stations?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: The simple answer is no.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Wayne Gates: Well, that’s good.

Interjections.

Mr. Wayne Gates: I was just trying to figure out how much time I’ve got left to figure this out, so I’m good.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Not very much.

Mr. Wayne Gates: But I am going to ask the last part of the question, just so we can get that “no” more than once.

Once again, I’d like to know if the Premier is intending on selling these stations and, if so, when you were planning on consulting with the people of Niagara? I’d like to hear that answer again. Thank you very much.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: I’m going to say it very simply again: No.

Now we get to ask a question.

Rural infrastructure

Ms. Indira Naidoo-Harris: My question is to the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs. Minister, if you were to drive down a street in my riding, it wouldn’t be unusual to see farms and fields on one side of the road and subdivisions and box stores on the other side. That’s because Halton is one of the fastest-growing areas in the country. In fact,