Volume 1 PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND THIRTY-SIXTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND 1st Session VERBATIM REPORT Monday, May 29, 1972 SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE JAMES M. RUSSELL Number,16

May 29, 1972 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. Tape no. 364 Page 1 - MRW MR. SPEAKER: I would like to welcome to this honourable House today about forty-five Grade X and Grade XI students from Crescent Collegiate at Robert's Arm with their teachers, Mr. Gordon Robinson and Mr. Kevin Major. On behalf of all the members of this honourable House, I would like to welcome you here and trust that your visit is a very informative and interesting one. PETITIONS MR. H.V.R. EARLE: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present two petitions to this House.

The first of these is signed by 459 residents of the settlements from St. Jacques to Tibbo's Hill on the west side of Fortune Bay. The plea of this petition is to the effect that better medical services be provided for the area. As honourable members will know this particular area is one of the more remote in the province and medical services as such are very difficult to provide because of the fact that road conditions are not all they should be and not all settlements are connected by road. There has been a boat servicing a

section of Fortune Bay which now is limited to calling at one settlement only. The main problem in that area in providing proper medical facilities is dependent upon the provision of an adequate doctor's residence and clinic. The doctors who have gone to that area have stayed a very short time and left. They find that there is not a suitable residence nor is there a proper clinic in the area. It is something which I have been requesting for many years. I understand that last year, about October, there was a statement made that there was money provided for a doctor's residence in that area.

On assuming office we learned that although there may have been something put on paper to that effect, there was no money provided for such a residence. I am now presenting this petition to the House in the hope that the present minister of that department can find the money in this y·ear's estimates so that a residence and possibly a small clinic can be provided for the west side 1096

May 29, 1972 Tape no. 364 Page 2 Mr. Earle of Fortune Bay. I, therefore, ask that this petition be laid on the table of the House and presented to the department to which it relates. The second petition is a rather peculiar one insofar as act~ally it does not belong to this House at all. As I am asked to present it, I should do so. It is for a television relay installation in the St. Bernard's Bay L'Argent area. Now I do not know if there is any department of government that has the responsibility for dealing with this.

The former administration, particularly as it approached election time, did find a department which could look after this sort of thing and rather hastily,to my painful experience,did allocate a certain sum of money for the creation of such a relay station in one settlement,to the tune of $10,000. This was done I believe through the private television stations or one of the private television stations, I should say.

It was rather peculiar circumstances at the time which I hope that this administration will not repeat insofar as the application for that television station had not gone to I Ottawa at the time that they pretended that it was being built. Even more amusing since then, as the present member for the district, I have now been requested to get the land grant on which the television antenna is established • It was not obtained before the station was set up. Even more extraordinary is the fact that this station was paid for out of a water services grant.

How on earth a water services grant can provide a television antenna, I do not know. I am just asking that this particular request from the Bay L'Argent, St. Bernard's area for a television antenna be channelled to the department that can best deal with it and that it be dealt with in a far more efficient and expeditious manner than has been the case in the past. I, therefore, pray that this petition be laid on the table of the House and presented to the department to which it relates. 1097

May 29, 1972. Tape 365. Page 1. ~IlL Roberts: 'lr. Speaker, before Your Honour puts the motion may I say a word or tvo? I assume the honourable gentleman made a motion or ·in his enthusiasm to prav he forgot to put a motion, I am sure he will next time. ~lr. Speaker, with respect to the first petition, 1.et me say that is with very real enthusiasm that I supoort it. The honourable gentleman has referred to the lack of a doctor's residence at Belleoram which I believe i.s \~here the doctor hall been stationed traditionally .

I believe there is a lonp. history of verv noble medical service on that coast narticularlv the Fitzgerald family. I \vould think goes back,the honourahle member from Burin h'Ould nrobablv be able to refresh me, in the order of eightv or a hundred years. The original doctor Fitzgerald, then his son, also I b••' 'eve Dr. Conrad Fitzgerald practised fnr many years in Belleoram then latterlv in Trini tv East. I believe he is sti 11 alive, living in Ottawa • He must be nearlv a hundred years old, a very old man, a very rin€, man.

There is a doctor's residence in Belleoram I believe but it is not adequate or it is most inadequate. I do not recall the details of the little partisan jibes that my honourable friend wishes to get off. I do kno"' that the advice \>lL<S given to the previous minister of the 11epartment of Health was out that there was a residence neeckd at Belleoram. I do know that it was part of the programme that was authorized.

I do not know at this atage, until I refresh my memory perhaps on estimates, The honourable, gentleman, the Minister of Health and I will have a little go. at that- but certainly if nothing has gone ahead at this stage. The nrogranune I should add,Mr. Speaker, began a year and a-half .ago and it would drive Jo~ himself to impatience- it has taken that long. There was considerable trouble in Belleoram \.rith the - I believe in getting suitable land. But if the house has not r:one ahead already as of this point, I think it should go ahead this year. There has been a lot of difficulty retaining doctors in Belleoram.

There ~>1ill be considerable difficulty retaining doctors in 1098

May 29, 1972. Tape 365. Page 2. many of the rural outharhour practises. The present Minister of Health mav have found the magic answer to the solution, if so, he will be the first man I think in a hundred years to have solved :It; If he has not - then he will join a large group of other concerned people both political and other·:lse lvho have not heen able to find the ans1ver to the nroblem of providing rural services in Newfoundland. The speeches by his deputy minister of Health- I assume that Dr.

Collohan has a promotion or the ''Evening Telegram ''is reporting it inco r r c,ctly- may provide part of the answer. It is a good petition Mr. Speaker, it is a good prayer, it is a reasonable request. I think the administration should grant it. \Vith respect of the other petition I do not knm.r what the honourable gentleman is going on about. I assume that he does although he has not made it clear.tosomebodv like myself hearing his speech.

I did notice in the newspaper the other day that the Canadian Radio and Television has approved an application by community based organization in the Terrenceville area for the erection of a community antenna, a machine which will receive a TV signal which would in turn relay it so that people living in the community could pick it up. There was a similar one I think from Trepassey, in the district represented by honourable member for Ferryland. I can name a numher of other communities throughout Ne"rfoundland that do not .Yet have television.

I believe it is the business of the government of this Province- in the absence of any action bv the Government of Canada, it is the business of the Government of this Province to take action to help to provide these oeonle with television. I do not think television is a luxury. I think it is educational, its cultural value is such that people are entitled to it. There are still many parts of the province without television.Sir. The honourable gentleman from St. Barbe's South is in Corner Brook today opening a convention,as the Minister of Labour. Parts of his district, the honourable member's distr:lctJ St.

Barbe North, Labrador South, Labrador North, my own district still many places without television. I do not know whether this petition will be sent. I would think if I were in a 1099

May 29, 1972 . Tane 365 . Page 3. nosition to direct it, ~ r . Sneaker, I would suggest it be sent to t he honourable Minister of Communit v b Social Development . Surely this is a community develo~~en t. It is a social developme nt, o~e which t he governmen t should find the funds for .

I am all for them doing it expeditiously and efficiently. 1 am sure that the honourable gentleman f rom fortun e Bay,in his canacity as second executive assistant to t he Premier (We n01~ have a chief executive a,ssi stan~ it i1; not he). b\tt. in his ca~acitv as the second-class execut ive assistant to the Premier will be in a nroper nosition to make sure it is efficient and expeditious . So J sunport it and sur?or t it with oleasure . Sir . 11uo

~ay 29, 1972, Tape 366, Page 1 -- apb DJ1. A.T.ROWE: - --- ~r. Speaker, in connection with the hon. Leader's question re~ardin~ Belleoram housing, I am sure he is perfectly aware of the problems of keeping doctors in isolated areas of the province without proper housing facilities. Belleoram certainly has priority in this regard. We have had an exchange of some four to five doctors in that particular area in the last six months. On behalf of the hon. member for Fortune, I am in complete sympathy with and I am very co~nizant of the medical requirements.

I would ensure as far as funds are available to endeavour to solve the situation. On motion petition received. ~1R. REID: Hr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition from Chance Cove, Bellevue and Thornlea. This was commonly known as the Cabot Highway 1(19. This has heen deteriorating the past twenty or twenty-five years. Today it is deplorable. Since I have been travelling over it since being elected. It has been in a terrible condition. He have one of the finer parks, one of the finer beaches in N~vfoundland.

This is somethin~ very, very important. :Recause of the condition of the road do~m there it certainly hampers our people, our tourists from going do~m there - because of the condition, the dust and the dirt they have to eat while they are do~m there. I certainlv support this petition,. ~~r. Speaker, I humbly support this petition and be~ that it be received and laid on the table of the House and submitted to the department to which it relates. ~-~EARY_:_ r·rr. Speaker, I would like to support the petition just presented by the hon. member on behalf of the people in Chance Cove, Bellevue and Thornlea. Pr.

Speaker, I am'always in complete sympathy with petitions that are brought into this House for improved road conditions, water and s~werage,the bread and butter issues as far as I am concerned. I might make a suggestion, Hr. Speaker, that the government, the Minister of Finance.would be well advised to set his priori.ties strai!Zht. Forget the linotype machines, forget the historic sites and p:ive people roads and "later and sewerage. These are the bread and butterissues and it gives me great pleasure to support the 1101

~av 2~. 1972, Taoe 366, ?a~e Z - apb petition. On motion petition received . "':" ..:__!'ECKF'Or~_: _ ~·r. Speaker, I ask leave of the House to present a petition on rehaJf of the residents of the Rural District of Triton, Ji1r. 's C".ove nnd Cards llarhour on the southern side of t";reen Bay. "'11e prayer of the petition is that the rur al district receive an adcouateo l·•atcr surnly . At present the water supply of this area comes ~rom a rrcmp of priv:~te wells alonp. with a numher c>f community wells that ~:ere drilled a fe ... • years ago.

One of the pritne ~~ells that has been used has been turne~ dol-m not~ hy the l'epartnent of Pealth as unfit . For ye-ars the flPOnle of this aren have suffered from a lacr. of "'ater and it is oov1 ~ettinJZ jnto a ~rettv danAProus situation. I heartily support the petition. The pra yer of the petition also includes a se,;era~e system throuF h the collll'!unity, 1'-ut I think, }'r. Speaker, the main thin)? at this time is a l'later systell' because of the etncr)?ency ex is tin~ in this are.a. 11 fi 2

May 29, 1972 Tape 367 JM - 1 so I fully support it and move that it be placed on the table of the House and referred to the department to which it relates. On motion, petition received. !EPORTS _()F STANDIN_G A.li!D SELECT COMHITTEES : HQ_N_Q.l!_~~~E!_- ~l~-~Q.~~tM_!_~_I_~-~J':!_ _O_! __ :M:!_~S L ~CRI_C~J~~- AN12___~SOURCE!U · Mr. Speaker. I have here the report of the Newfoundland Marketing Hoard for the year ending March 31, 1971, of which I have copies for the House ~1hich are several davs late>, My apologizes 1 There are several copies there which will make interesting readin~ I am sure.

MOTIONS: H_9~_n_l~~~ ._A_._ _g_~C_I<~(~I_N_I__,'l__T~_Jl _ Q_F_ JIISTICE.l_:._ Mr. Speaker, I pive notice that I ~Till on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill. ''An Act Further To Amend The

Summary Jurisdiction Act." On behalf of the honourable the Minister of Finance I give notice that on tomorrow 1 will ask leave to introducP the following bills: "An Act Further To Amend The Ap,ree~ent Ratified, Confirmed And Adopted By And Set Forth !n The

Schedule To The Leech Cold Mines Limited Agree~ent Act, 1964 And To Make Certain Provisions Relating To That Ap.reement ." To Nove The 'Clouse Into A Com~ittee Of The Whole To Consider Certain Resolutions In Relation To The Advancing Or Guaranteeing Of Certain T,o11ns, To Move The House Into A Committee nf The Hhole To Consider r.ertain llesolutions Relatin? To The r,uarantce Of The Repayment Of Bonds nr Debentures Issuerl lJy And The Guarantee Of The Repayment Of J.0ans Made To Certain T,ocal Author! ties. }"P • DOC1DY : }!r. Speaker , I beg leave of this House on tomorrol- r to introrluce a hill. ·

An Act Further To Amend The Forest Fires Act.·· QUESTIONS: f!9N_O_~IJlAB_!!:___JOH!'~ _ _A •. _C_A_RTE~-t~,"!__IST~~ OF -~D_l~~ATION AND Y_OUTH) .:_ Mr. Speaker. in answer to the question of the bon Leader of the Opposition rlirected to the ~remier,but since it concerns matters relatin~ to 1103

May 29, 1972 Tape 367 .JM - 2 education the Premie.r has ask me to answer it. The answer to question 1 (a) - ~. ROBE_Rl:_~ : l·Jhat is the number of the question? 1'-ffi. CARTER: Oh, it is the one in the order paper here, number 15. The answer to auestion l(

a) is no. The answer to question l(

b) is there is no report to be tabled. The answer to question l(

c) is we do not expect to receive such a report. There will be no report. The answer to auestion 2 is October 11, 1971. The answer to question 3 is none. The answer to question 4 is none whatsoever. The answer to question 5 is the Order in Council has not to this date been officially rescinded but it is our intention to do so and I have some conies here to lay on the table of the House. ~~ RO~EA~~- : Mr. Speaker, could I ask a supplementary question with reference to part (5)? Has the honourable gentleman or for that matter any member of the Government been in touch with Mr.

Poirier to notify him of the intention of the Government not to proceed with this commission? MR. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, it is our intention to get in touch with Mr. Poirier very shortly to let him know that there will be no further action upon this particular commission. MR. DOYLE: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the honourable the'Premier I woulc like to table the answers to question number 13 on the order paner,asked by the honourable the member for Bell Island,on May 4. ~Vhile I am on my feet, Mr. Speaker, I would like at the same time to answer question number 14 1104

Jo.lay 29, 1972 Tape No. 368 NC - 1 on hehalf of the honourable the Premier, questions asked on the Order Paper of May 5, by the honourable the Leader of the Opposition. The answer to question number 14 (1) is yes, number 2 (

a) Employment Officer, Office of the Premier, number 2(

b) January 31, 1972, number 2 (c) $10,000, number 2(

d) no, terminated March 6, 1972 and number 2 (

e) is not applicable. The answer, Mr. Speaker, to question number 16 on the Order Paper of today's date from the honourable the Leader of the Opposition, number 16 (1) $88,435.37, number 16 (2) $58,913.66. I hereby table the answers to questions number 14 and 16. MR~~NSOR: Mr. Speaker, before I direct a question to the bon. Minister of Municipal Affairs; kindly inform the House or give the House any informationon exactly what the position is regarding the installation of water at the Community of Fogo. MR. COLLINS: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, the position with regard to Fogo is under continual review, trying to find ways and means of providing assistanc~keeping within certain financial costs. Just as soon as we decide upon that, we will let the bon. member and the people in Fogo know. MR. DOODY: The Clean Air,Water and Soil people, Mr. Speaker, have been down on Fogo Island very recently and did a survey of that particular problem. I have the report in the office, if the bon. member for Fogo wishes to copy it, I would be only to happy to supply it to him. MR. l.f!NSOR: You do that. Mr.

Speaker, it is a matter of great concern because I think hon. members realize or have heard that the Mayor and Town Council of Fogo have given notice that they will resign unless there is some action taken. MR. ·NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I did not hear Your Honour call Orders of the Day, are we asking questions or shall we wait for Orders of the Day? 1105

May 29. 1972 Tape No. 368 NC - 2 MR. SPEAKER: Orders of the Day have not been called, Maybe we should have waited until they were. MR. ~~NARD: Mr. Speaker. in answer to question number 22_(1) th~ answer is none. 22 (2) and 22 (3) of course are not applicable since the answer to number (1) is none, 1106

May 29, 1972 Tape 369 NB - 1 MR. DOODY: MR. Speaker, the answers to number 18, 19, 20, 21 and 17 will he supplied as soon as the staff of the Clean Air Water and Soil Authority get all the necessary statistics. They are busily engaged in compiling them now,for the information of the honourable member for Bonavista North. RON. W. MARSHALL (Minister without Portfolio): }~. Speaker, before we proceed on to Orders of the Day I just received this now and would lik~ to table the amendments to the Public Service Pensions Regulations, 1971, I would like permission to table it,on behalf of the Minister of Finance.

ORDERS_ QLTEX....DAY HR. NEARY: In the absence of the Minister of Finance, President of the Treasury Board, I would like to direct a question to the Honourable Premier. I might say I am very glad to welcome the Honourable Premier back to Newfoundland take his seat in the House this afternoon.

I would like to ask him that in view of the serious consequences that the strike at Newfoundland Farm Products is having on the farmers and the general public and the employees o 1 f Newfoundland Farm Products, if the government are considering its position and are prepared to resume negotiations with the employees of Newfoundland Farm Products with a view to getting a collective agreement or submitting to binding arbitration as suggested by the union7 MR.

DOODY: If I may, for the benefit for the honourable member from Bell Island, the situation is now that the Government, Treasury Board, are quite prepared to sit down and negotiate with the union at any time that the union wants them to do so. We have been in consultation with the members and are well aware of the problems that they face. I understand that the farmers have also met with the union. The government, as I say, are quite prepared to negotiate with the union and the' more quickly we can resolve the strike then the more quickly we can get the Farm Products Industry back on its normal basis. }{Ft. F.B.

ROWE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to address a question to the Honourable Minister of Education: Due to the fact that the school boards 1107

~fay 29, 1972 Tape 369 NB - 2 Mr. F.B. Rowe. are now in tlle process of plann;i.ng for school bus transportation for next year, has the Min;i.ster ~et with the school boards or the superintend~nts concerning the statement that he made earlier in tbe House, some weeks ago, and has there been any change in the formula or policy that he announced at that time and if there has been a change could he .indicate the nature of the change to this honourable House? 1108

May 29, 1972 Tape no. 370 Page 1 - MRW RON. J.A . CARTER (Minister of Educatio n and Youth): Mr. Speaker, in answer to that question, I have met with the superintendents of many !f not all of the school boards and we have discussed the implications that these regulations would cause. The discussions were quite fruitful. We have agreed to establish a differential rate where there are cases of extreme hardship, either climatic hardship or the roads themselves or the bus routes to be travelled are extremely long and difficult ones.

The precise formula has yet to be finished and as soon as it is the full information will be given this House or be made public or perhaps both. MR. ROWE (F.B.): Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question: Will this announcement be made before the closing of this school year? MR. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, already the school boards have almost or practically enough information for them to be able to negotiate with the various contractors and enter into preliminary contracts for the transportation of pupils next year. MR. ROBERTS: Mr.

Speaker, a supplementary question: Did the honourable gentleman say that school boards have enough information to negotiate I with people intending to provide bus contracts? MR. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, in answer to that question, the school boards have been assured that their losses will be of very minor nature so that the contracts that are already enforced or that were made for more than one year will naturally be continued. Where there are already exi~ting contracts, there is no concern whatsoever.

In the area of new contracts, the school boards have been assured that the losses will be very slight or the adjustments will be very slight either up or down,so that they are able to enter into at least preliminary negotiations with bus contractors. MR. ROWE (F.B.): Mr. Speaker, if these school boards will not lose money as a result of the change in the formula, there are still possibly seme other school boards who will receive more than enough money for the purposes of school transportation and can •• HON. W. W. MARSHALL (Minister without Portfolio): Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

I would submit, Your Honour, that the question has been answered and answered 1109

May 29. 1972 Mr, Marshall Tape no. 370 Page 2 quite adequately by the Minister of Education and now the honourable member is really debating his answer, which is out of order. MR. R,OBERTS: Mr. Speaker, a point of order, the honourable gentleman has asked a question - MR. SPEAKER: Order! Take the question ~ anawered and not debate the answer as such. p.N HON . MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. SPEAKElt: The question has been answered. ORD~ OF THE DAY Address in Reply !fit. F. J. AYLWARD: Mr.

Speaker, I moved the adjournment of this debate and in your absence I extended congratulations to you on your re~lection to the position as Speaker. I know, of course, that your tenure this time is certainly going to be longer than the last one. I do hope that you will have a very, very enjoyable term and that you will, of course, handle this office with the great degree of partiality and fairness which your office dictates. 1110

May 28, 1972 Tape No. 371 NC - 1 I had at that time congratulated the mover and seconder of a motion that a committee be appointed to draft an Address in Reply and also I have ·spoken briefly on the district. Mr. Speaker, I intend to just mention a couple of matters concerning my district in particular and also then move on to a few items mentioned in the Speech from the Thro~e and deal with a couple of matter of general interest to me.

I would, Sir, like to bring to the attention of this House and particularly the government,of course the Minister of Highways, what is the deplorable condition of the roads in certain sections of the district. I refer of course in particular to the road from Fox Harbour to Ship Harbour. It is a very short distance of approximately five miles, but this road was,for periods of up to one week,closed completely to all motor traffic during the spring and in fact during the campaign I found that I 'vas unable to even visit that communi.ty on two occasions because of the cond~tion'of the road.

Now there are a large number of residents in the area who are obliged to use this road and also,of course, the doctors and nurses and the clergymen servicing the area find it extremely difficult to operate in the conditions that prevail. I have seen myself, Mr. Speaker, on occasions,,vhen J tried to visit the area, cars stuck in mud and men, women and children being obliged to leave the highway and go back to rlacentia, stay overnight because it was impossible to get 'over that• highway. I think in this day and age such a condition is deplorable and it is hard to understand just why it has been neglected so long.

Also, of course, another very, very important road in my district is the road up the Cape Shore from Point Verde· to St. Brides t;.rhich is in a similiar condition during the spring of the year. Now, Mr. Speaker, this road is only less than thirty miles and since 1949, I am told by residents in the area that at no time has any 1111

May 28, 1972 Tape No. 371 NC - 2 work been done by a contractor on that particular highway. On the contrary, only a maintenance craw from the Department of Highways have worked on that road, which means that really,for a period in exc~ss of twenty years, nothing of a substantial nature was done on that road. In addition to the roads, Mr. Speaker, these two areas of the district are without any adequate telephone communication which means that when the road is blocked (I think there is just one pay station in St. Bride's}. all type of communication with the outside world is practically at a standstill.

On this I am pleased to report to the House, the situation as far as the telephones are concerned in the area will be rectified this year,as the Newfoundland Telephone Company Limited intend to install or have installed dial telephone by the fall of this year. But, Mr. Speaker, my own view is that a great mistake was made as far as highroad construction in that ~rea was concerned when the previous administration decided that they would construct a highway from North Harbour to St. Bride's. I understand this year another portion of that contract is out to build that road.

If the construction of that road means that the road from Point Verde to St. Brides is to be left in the condition it is in, then Mr. Speaker, I respectfully submit that the people of this district have been dealt a great injustice because there are many, many people living between St. Bride's and Point Verde

whereas the pr.esent highway is under cnnstruction from North Harbour to Branch. There is no liviers whatsoever along that highway and my own view is,and I think this is supported by some officials at least in the Department of Highways, that this road from Point Verde to St. Bride's was certainly the one that warranted construction before any road link was made between Branch and North Harbour. 1112

May 28, 1972 Tape No. 371 NC - 3 Now, Mr. Speaker, in the Placentia area, and by the Placentia area I refer to the four municipalities of Freshwater, Placentia, Jerseyside, and Dunville, in that particular part of my district of course you will find the highest concentration of population and also I suppose included in that area would be Point Verde and Southeast Placentia. Mr. Speaker, the people in this area all worked for many, many years, in fact for approximately twenty years 1 on the American Base. Now when that base phased out a year or so ago, a big blow was dealt to the people of this area.

In fact their whole life style was centered around working with the American Forces and many of them obtained very high wages and to see the only industry in the area practically phased out entirely, meant an awful lot to these people. In fact I think only two or more years ago you had an employment on the base of in excess of 1,000 people

whereas today you have in the vicinity I of 100 people'. You can imagine, Mr. Speaker, what a terrible transition it was for the people living in these areas. In addition, Mr. Speaker, during the last two or three years, the centralization and resettlement has played an important

part in that district and we have many, many families moving from the islands in Placentia Bay and of course from the district of Placentia West. This idea of centralization and resettlment I know has been debated over and over in this House but one has only to visit the Placentia area and you can see at first hand some of the great difficulties people experienced in these moves. Mr. Speaker, the problems are too numerous to enumerate and the experiences for some of these families have been quite traumatic.

Everyone agrees that as long as people are moved from one settlement to another and they can find employment and better educational facilities are ~rovided and hospital facilities, etc., it would seem to indicate that it was pro- gress. But for many of these people to settle in Placentia from the 11'13

May 28, 1972 Tape No. 371 NC - 4 islands of Placentia Bay, I think the contrary is the situation. In fact, Mr. Speaker, many of these fishermen left some of the best fishing grounds in Placentia Bay and their fishing base was only. approximately ten miles from these islands, and they had wonderful property, they were independent fishermen, they had their boats and they landed excellent catches. When they moved into my district certainly the same facilities were not available to them.

In addition of course they were not as close to the fishing ground and the situation now exists where large numbers of these fishermen are compelled to leave Placentia area and indeed Arnold's Cove and Mount Arlington Heights and other places where they have settled and go back 9 at this time of the year, to their former homes. to fish from these islands. Mr. Speaker, many of them left all of their belongings and everything and today they do riot even have the fishing premises to return to on these islands. I think we have in the chamber here with us today, Mr.

Speaker, in the visitors' gallery, I suppose one of the best informed Newfoundlander on this question of centralization and its effect on fishermen in that area, because he himself 1114

~ay 29, 1972, Tape 372, Page 1 -- apb ~IR. AYLWARD: "as obliged to leave that island or leave one of the islands . I refer,of course, to Hr. J.V.McCarthy who left Red Island. This man, ~~r. Speaker, worked all of his life in Placentia Bay. He had a husiness, he built up a wonderfule fishing premises, supplied many, many fishermen and "1-rhen he left that island he was obliged to leave his life's labour and work behind without any remuneration whatsoever. You can see, Hr. Speaker, what a terrible injustice this centralization has worked for men like ~r. HcCarthy.

Today you have fishermen returning to places like Red Island who are in need of some facilities to land and salt their fish. If some steps are not taken to at least maintain some of these premises on these islands, the government I respectfully submit will be confronted with a greater problem and that is,of course, to construct some buildings or some wharves for these men so that they can continue to fish.

I certainly submit and I hope that the Minister of Fisheries will consider the ~cquisition of some of these properties, that is some of these great fishin~ properties on these islands so that they can be maintained by the government for use by these fishermen, I am told, ~r. Speaker, that over one million pounds of cod fish have been caught there by the men on these islands and salted because they are too far away from a fish plant.

I think it would really be lack of foresight to let· all the fishing premises on these islands deteriorate to the stage where, when these men return to these islands to fish,they will find no place to fish from.. In addition to the problems experienced by these fishermen thern.sel ves and their families, lfr. Speaker, there are also the great problems imposed upon the municipalities. Because with the influx of families and their children,of course, more school facilities were necessary and also,of course, great demands were made upon the municipal services provided by the municipalities.

None of these municipalities, Hr. Speaker, received any extra financial assistance to cope ~vith this problem. 1115

Hay 29, 1972, Tape 366, Page 2 -- apb Today you have a great number of unemployed people who worked on the base in the Placentia Area and you have this problem of these men and t~omen who settled in the area. I ask the Jl.!inister of Fisheries in particular to consider their plight and to do t~hat he can to assist them. The great need, ~r. Speaker, in that district of course and in that area particular of the district,is jobs. I know, since my election I have had practically eight or ten letters a day and three or four people visit me and maybe as many as four or five phone calls.

The question ninety-nine times out of a hundred is an application for a job. One feels so hopeless, ~r. Speaker, in trying to assist these people­ because the only industry in the area that is providing any employment at all is at Corne by Chance. In this respect, }!r. Speaker, the people of my district were quite concerned recently and I was very concerned myself. I brought the matter to the attention of the Minister of Labour nth respect to the employment situation at Come by Chance. In fact, I had been told that some Americans had been employed on that project as labourers .. If this is correct, Mr.

Speaker, I certainly ask the government to immediately rectify this situation. Because if there is any need in the District of Placentia East which is desperate, it is the need for johs. I realize that I have no monopoly on the unemployed, but I do feel that since this industry is located in the District of Placentia East, surely whatever jobs are available these people have a right to a priority. I am not satisfied myself, Mr. Speaker, that the men in my district are obtaining the consideration,as far as employment is concerned at that project, that they should receive.

I have written numerous letters to Procon and to other contractors on the site, but I am not very happy with the number of men that are employed on the project from my district. I sincerely trust that the Minister of Labour, when he completes his investigation,which he assured me he is conducting.will be able to confirm that this sjtuation does not exist. That is,of course, the 1116

May 29 , 1972, Tape 372, Page 3 -- apb employment of labourers from outisde this province. I think the people of the district have demonstrated, :Hr. Speaker, that what they ask from the government is not just welfare but they need help and assistance to try to readjust to the situation in which they find themselves. I think that the efforts which the leaders of the communities have displayed on that Placentia Area Development Committee is ample evidence that they men in this district are quite prepared, with assistance and direction b)• government, to make the best of what they have.

I think a great tribute is due to the Placentia Area Development Committee and to Hanpower, to the officials at the Fisheries College and to the Fisheries Development Authorities and all concerned with that boat buildin g project - ship building yard in the district. They have already constructed two of the best longliners in the province and two more are already under construction. In asidition, Ifr. Speaker, the project has provided facilities whereby men in the area with an aptitude for boat building could and did in fact train to become fishermen. Hhat I would like to see done in the area, ~ ·r.

Speaker, is an economic survey of the complete potential of that district. We have,of course,in the district,Argentia, and that naval base has some wonderful docking facilities. We are aware,of cours~, because of the present situation respecting the lease that these facilities are not made available to the Government of this Province or to the Federal Government. I would certainly ask both the Federal and Provincial r.overnments to resort to whatever efforts they possibly can to see to it that these facilities are made available to any industry hoping to settle in the area.

If there is any future for the Placentia Area , one is compelled to conclude that it lies in the fisheries. Because, you have there a large number of experienced fishermen who,as I mentioned before,came in from the islands in the Bay and from other parts of Placentia l~est. In addition 11-17

May 29, 1972, Tape 372, Page 4 -- apb you have the facilities at Argentia and if they were made available they could be of great assistance in trying to establish a fish plant in that area. Also, Mr. Speaker, if a fish pr.ocessing plant were established there, it would provide a great number of jobs. Right now, most of the fish from that district is sent out,to other parts of Conception Bay and other areas in the vicinity,to be. processed. Everyone realizes.of course, that the processing aspect of the fishery employs more men than the actual catching. }f.r.

Speaker, I was successful in extracting an undertaking from the Premier during the election, tbat the government would take steps to restore the fish plant at St. Bride's after breakwater facilities were installed. 1118

May 29 , 1972 Tape 373 JM - 1 MR. AVL~<YARD: I remind the Minister of Fisheries that the people of St. Brides will not let nor will I let him forget this undertaking. The other parts of the district, Mr. Speaker, Long Harbour and Mount Arlinrton Hei~hts, the main complaint in that partieular area of course is the roads. I understand that the road to Long Harbour is being paved this year and when the naving machines are in the area of course the neople in the Mount Arlington Hei?hts area really feel that the road should be paved in that community as well.

It is only a distance of apnroximately a mile and a-half or two miles from Long Harbour. Also in the district are the two communities of Fair Haven and Little Harbour East who similarily complain of road conditions. Now, Mr.

Speaker, the other sections of the district,namely Southern Harbour and ft.rnolds Cove, are two up-and-coming communities and I ask the Minister of Municipal Affairs.and I am glad to see him here, if he woJld as promptly as possible take some steps to see to it that the present board of trustees in these two communities are renlaced by the holding of an election because I think it is verv, very imnortant in these communities that the neople have a right to select their own leaders.

These are two growing communities And I feel that thev are now ready and should be given a chance to elect their own municipal officials. The road conditions in Arnold's Cove need paving. Of course I am sure that the officials in the departments concerned are aware . of these needs. Nmo1, Mr. Speaker, I l~ould like to refer to a couple of matters of general interest. I suppose one has his duty to his district primarily and of course we must all as members be concerned with the province as a whole.

I think the Premier in his campaigns captured the imagination of some people and, I suppose, the frustration of others with his idea of a well-planned programme of development and 1119

May 29, 1972 Tape 373 J}'l - 2 a team approach. I feel that the people of this province will expect a lot from this government because of the great mandate given to them and with such a mandate, I respectfully submit, comes a great responsibility and I sincerely trust that we can and will discharge that responsibility. I was glad to see in the Speech from the Throne that the government placed preat emphasis on advisory and regional councils. My own view is, Mr. Speaker. that the more people that become involved in the fvery day life of the commun5ty and the province,the better for all concerned.

The indication in the Speech from the Throne that the development corporation will soon be in operation is a matter of p,reat interest. I am sure, to all small business people in the nrovince particularily the saw mill operators and small business people who are finding it very, very difficult. I trust that this will be removed from political influence and that this corporation will be permitted to develop on a good businesslike basis and provide assistance to small businesses. I was more than pleased to learn of the appointment of a committee to review the oil and gas leases.

If there were any concessions ever piven by any government that needs review, Mr. Speaker, T respectfully submit that this is one area that needs immediate consideration because everyone knows what a great future we as a province will have if they are successful in finding oil and ~as off our coast. So it is extremely important that any concessio~s given by the province are not given to fly-by-night companies nor penny-ante operations uor to companies that have no intention or no facilities to explore and develop these areas.

There was just no rhyme nor reason, Mr~ Speaker, to the method and manner in which leases were given by the former administration. I think it will become obvious when this committee studies the leases given or the permits or the undertaking by the government that favourable consideration would be given to applicants. 1120

May 29, 1972 Tape 373 JM- 3 They will see that companies with very, very little if any resources ann in no position to develop or explore were given large tracts of land off our coast. Now, Mr. Sneaker, anyone who is familiar with the situation is aware that there are federal regulations as well and that before a conpany could obtain a federal nermit the comnany was obliged to put up a bonn and spend so much money on exnloration.

In this province we had no regulations and in some cases even where federal permits were given and companies had put up monies and a bond to the federal authorities they could not obtain a provincial permit because the nrovincial permit had alreadv heen given to another companv. Also. Mr. Speaker. some companies that have spent a great deal of money off our coast have not received their permits

whereas other cornnanies have received their permits. Some companies would he ,iust l!'iven letters that their application would he favourably considered and there was iust nothin~r one cduld do about it because there were no regulations governint> it. Really, Mr. Speaker.

I commend this government for the swift action they have taken in this respect and I sincerely trust that they will see to it that these leases,if these corrpanies are not prepared to spen~ their money on development that the leases will be taken from them and l!'iven to companies that are prepared to spend the money and of course to properly exnlore these larp.e areas of land. I have kno~~ myself,personally, Mr.

Speaker, I have learned from individuals, from informed sources that some companies that obtained permits to exnlore for gas and oil off our coast then took these permits anrl tried to neddle them to companies that held ad.1oinin)1 land. Now can you imagine, ~r. Speaker, here was a company with no intention and no resources to explore and develop obtaining from this province permits and then going out and trying to sell these permits to companies which held provincial 1121

May 29. 1972 Tape 373 JM - 4 and federal permits on lane adioinins:t this. This is a clesperate situation. Nr. Speaker. and I reallv feel that t his s;tovernment should cancel those leases forthwith as soon as they a re satisfied that they are not bona fines developers. ~ow, Mr. Speaker, I was also oleased to learn in t he ~oeech fro~ the Throne that th~ ~ovetnMentwer e interestecl a~d prepared to further nromote these development associations. I think these rleve .l.nnm~nt associations hav e wor~ed very , very well .

They have involved people t~ho are knowledp.eable in their communities and they can and have macle Rreat contributions to the business liee of these areas of the Province :tnd thev should be encoura~ect to oarticinate. I tltink that is an excellent ide3 and I have seen orove of it. of course. in my own district. Also of course I '~as very. very pleased to learn from the ~peech from the Throne that the p,ovenment had decidecl. T think. to imple~ent in f.ull the recommendations of the royal comnission app•>inted to investitate the situation at the St . Lawrence Fluorspar Mines. 1122

May 29, 1972. Tape 374. Page 1. MR. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I approach this topic wfth tongue in cheek bearing in mind that some of my constituents have displayed some wrath at my concern about St. Lawrence rather than Placentia. But, Mr. Speaker, I think every one in this province, indeed in Canada realize that St. La~1rence ,,,as the greatest industrial tragedy of the century. I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that no community in Canada nor indeed in North America exnerienced the grief and the suffering that the people of St. Lawrence experienced as the result of the diseases contracted by miners working at St. Lawrence.

These mines started in that community in 1933. Anyone 1-1ho has read the report of the Royal Commission or is familiar with the operation is a~o,are of the great sacrifices and the conditions under which the workmen '~or ked in these mines, in the early days. After the mines were in oneration for probably ten or fifteen years , certainly in ~he late forties and early fifties, young men who had worked underground in these mines started to die. From 1949 right up to 1972, young men have continued to die as a result of industrial diseases contracted in these mines. Mr.

Speaker, it is a very,verv sad and tragic situation. What is so bad I suppose "as that it was so long before even officials in the - or people concerned with industrial health '"ere satisfied themselves as to just 'Jhat was causing the large number of men to die in St. La"1tence. I remember,Mr. Sr eaker, former members representing the District of Rurin speak in this House on the situation and bring it of course to the attention of the legislature.

Of course, every one in the community itself realizes without any medical knowledge whatsoever that there were an in~rease of deaths among the male members of the community and that these men had all worked underground in these fluorspar mines. So, that in 1950,when I think the first case of silicosis was detected then a connection was seen between the deaths and the mines.But, Mr. Speaker, 1t23

May 29, 1972. Tape 374 Page 2. many of the individuals who worked in these mines and who had contracted silicosis,after a long petiod of suffering and disability died but their death resulted not from silicosis but from lung cancer. At that particular time, Mr. Speaker, when these men who received compensation for ~ilicosis up to the time of their death,when they died,many of them leaving large families,and the cause of death was carcinoma of the lungs,they lost com; ensation. You can imagine, Mr.

Speaker, the anxiety of these men on their death beds and the women, the mothers of large families,realizing that here the 1 husband was dying, the bread'l-rinner, not alone that, but practically they were just as certain that they would not receive comnensation as they were of death. Some of these men, Mr. Speaker, had left the mines,probably through disability-~for a year or two years before their death. So that they had practically no financ~al resources at all. Here they were in bad health and practic>l l ly 5ure that death was certain. Then Hr.

Speaker, you had a large number of individuals who did not have silicosis at all but who had lung cancer. These men, young men in their early thirties, theJ.r hrothers , their fathers some of them, in some cases father and son dying, some families '"iped out completely. Then for all these men to realize that here they were certain of death, also certain that their families would not receive compensation. It is easier Mr. Speaker, I respectfully submit, to try and imagine than describe the terrible plight of these 'fiTOrkmen, thei~ widows and the children of these diseased workmen. Mr.

Speaker, you had a period of practically ten years from 1950 to 1960 when all kinds of surveys were made and conducted. When finally. through the.great work of Dr. DeVilliers of the Environmental Health Department at Ottawa,when after conducting so many tests and so many examinations when they took a geiger-counter into these mines, they detected the presence of radiation. Mr. Speaker, this was not alpha but gamma radiation. Of course, as 1124

May 29, 1972. Tape 374. Page 3. soon as it was ascertained that radiation existed in the mines, an immediate conclusion was drawn of course that the men who died and who died from lung cancer died from cancer con~racted in these mines. But many of these men ~fr. Sneaker, had been dead for some years. ·.nd some of them still suffering and dying. One of the mines at that particular time in which a great number of these men had worked wns no longer in o,,eration.

When it '"as found in 1960, in the fall of 1959,that radiation did exist, that this radiation caused cancer, of c()urse the Horkrnen's Compensation Act was immediately amended to nrovide that any man who worked in the mines in St. La,vrence and who died of cancer he would receive com~ensation, so would the dependants of the diseased miner. But, then,~r. Speaker, this is the first time that industry had recognized cancer as a compensable disease. That is why,Mr. Speaker, the St.

Lawrence s~tuation is so different from any other situation in the mining industry prevai H.ng: in this province berause no where else do you have radiation and of course anyone working in any mines '"ho contract cancer, cancer is not an industrial disease and he is not enti.tled to compensation. But if you work in a mine where there is radiation and you contract cancer,of course you are now entitled hy laH to compensation. Then, Mr. Speaker, the people in St. Lawrence, the miners and their dependants were obliged to operate within the confines of the Act as it then was.

Of course this Act provided that before a person could receive compensation for death or disahi~ity, the death or disability must occur within a period of twelve months from the date of his employment. This of course meant that a large number of these miners who had left the mines for over a year, who died of lung cancer,could not receive compensation because they had left their industry or left their employment within or over twelve months. At that particular time, Mr. Speaker, further investigation was made 1125

May 29, 1972. Ta!le 3 74 Page 4. and medical science was satisfied that a person could work in these mines and be exposed to radiation, Perha~s in 1940 to 1945,but that the situation as far as lung cancer was concerned and the trouble with the lungs would not develop for maybe five ten, fifteen years. This meant then,Mr. S!Jeaker, that even 1126

Hay 29, 1972 Tape 375 NB - 1 'HR. AYLH'ARD: if a person left St. Lawrence and probably in the early fifties went off to the mainland and died,as some of them didpfrom lung cancer, their widows and their dependents were also entitled to compensation But the Act had to be amended and the Workmen's Compensation Act was amended because the doctors could say with certainty to the Workmen's Compensation Board that the disease or the disability resulted from exposure to radiation in the mines, although the exposure could have been ten or fifteen years before. Then, Mr.

Speaker, that I suppose solved a large number of cases. But then again you have as you still have in St. Lawrence today a great number of men who experience a disability and the disability is not one that is caused by silicosis and the disability is not one that it results from cancer. But still these people are,these individuals are physically unfit to work in the mines,L, fact theyare physically unfit to perform a day's work. Now, what happens to these people? They are referred to as bronchitics. Bronchitis they have, also they have a shortness of their breath and certainly an obstructive pulm~nary disease.

But these men are not now receiving compensation, not even, where some of them have died, the dependents of these deceased workmen. When the Commission appointed to investigate it interviewed all these, not all of them but a large number of the widows and some of the widows of deceased miners and some miners themselves, they were satisfied on the medical evidence available to them that the disability which these men experienced was connected with their employment.

It was felt that while doctors could not say by reading the X-ray that their lungs had either silicosis or ' cancer or fibrosis, but whatever the disability that these men were experiencing this disability was connected with their employment and therefore it was recommended that the Work

Schedule of Industrial Diseases to the Workmen's Compensation Act would be amended to include,as far as the St. Lawrence Mines were concerned,that any individual who worked in that mine prior to 1960 ; ­ why 1960, Mr. Speaker Because 1960 is the date to1hen it was found that radiation existed and after which of course proper ventilation system was installed in 1127

May 29, 1972 Tape 375 NB - 2 the mine and then radiation was kept to permissible level. So we recommended that anyone who worked in these mines prior to 1960 who were today ex­ periencing physical disability because of some pulmonary disease, then they should be entitled to compensation. This I understand is an amendment that will be made to the Horkmen's Compensation Act, and this amendment, Mr. Speaker, cannot come to quickly because it is,just as I have said a moment ago, easier to describe the plight of these widows and those workmen.

I refer, of course, in particular to Renny Slaney who devoted a great many hours of his life to try and to bring to the attention of the public the condition in these mines and who played a great

part in having the government of the day set up the commission which investigated these aspects of it. His widow in St. Lawrence today is not receiving any compensation because this man was disabled prior to his death but it could not be proved to the satisfaction of the Board,by medical evidence today available,that that disability resulted from employment in the mines or that it was a diseased covered in the Workmen's Compensation Act. What we said and what we recommended to the government was to change the

Schedule to provide that anyone who worked in the mines prior to 1960 and whose history of employment was compatable with this condition then he should receive compensation. I suppose, Mr. Speaker, there is no community in Canada of its size that has the equivalentnumber of orphans and widows as St. Lawrence does. There are hardly three or four families, I suppose there are less than five families in that entire community who have not had at least one or two members die as a result of employment in these mines. Mr. Speaker, I respectfully submit that this situation at Lawn,the situation in St.

Lawrence certainly needs the immediate recognition and I am so glad to see to it and I am sure it will receive the unaminous approval of this House that all these men and their dependents and widows will receive the compensation for, which they really died. 1128

May 29, 1972 Tape 375 NB - 3 Hr. Aylward. m1at was also very, very sad about that situation was this, Mr. Speaker, many of these men died in practically poverty, many in the Sanitorium,inside here, and many of them down here at the General Hospita~almost treated as lvelfare cases, when really these men, Mr. Speaker, had given their lives to industry and they could not and should never be considered as recipients of welfare. It was verytvery humiliating to these fine men and women to meet death under circumstances like they did.

I don't know how many mothers and sons and brothers and fathers of some of these \'YOrkmen that I visited the hospitals with. And if any member of this House were to experience the great grief and the real poverty of those people you would have to be moved, and you would be so glad to see that finally their rights were being recognized and that they would be receiving their just merit. And I also hope, Mr.

Speaker, that the legislation will provide that it is retroactive, that these people who were entitled to this compensation not since their death but also during the period of disability will receive that because I it is certainty their just merit. Also, Mr. Speaker, I would like to comment briefly on another item in the speech from the Throne, one with which I was closely identified,and that was the question of legal-aid. I understand from the Speech from the Throne that the government proposes to expand or make far more financial assistance MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, before the honourable member gets off the St.

Laurence situation I wonder if he will permit me a question? I would assume that the honourable member is aware that once the Workmen's Compensation Act is amended and these widows and survivors that he just spoke about qualify for Workmen's Compensation,they will also qualify for benefits under the special fund and it will be retroactive to July 1, 1971, in addition to Horkmen's Compensation. 1129

Tape no. 376 Page 1 - MRW May 29, 1972 MR. AYLWARD: I am very, very glad to learn that but I am not as familiar as the hon. member from Bell Island with that fund although I did recommend it. I am very, very pleased to learn that. What I felt about the fund, Mr. Speaker - I am wondering perhaps the hon. member from Bell Island (I do not mean to get into that) could probably tell us, for the information of the members of the House .

The recommendation of the commission was that the individuals in receipt of compensation should also receive some money from this fund which would put the dependents of the deceased workmen in a condition compatible with what they would have had had the breadwinner not died. MR. NEARY: I understood in working out the formula that provision was made, when they qualified for workmen's compensation they also qualified for benefits from the fund. MR. AYLWARD: From the fund, MR. NEARY: Back to July of last year. MR. HICKMAN: (Inaudible) MR.

AYLWARD: Undoubtedly the honourable member for the district will be speaking on it. I am glad, Mr. Speaker, that the hon. member for Bell Island - I was wondering if this fund was constituted as apparently it now is? There are so many people receiving so much from this fund. When more individuals are included for compensation does this mean a reduction in benefits? MR. NEARY: No! MR. AYLWARD: Provision has been made. I am certainly glad to learn that Mr. Speaker. I am not as familiar with the details of the fund as the hon. member from Bell Island. I am very, very glad to see that.

Of course, what ·is happening to the fund and the honourable member knows that as well, is that the people receiving benefits from this fund are the people who are presently receiving compensation. MR. NEARY: Right! MR. AYLWARD: What concerns me and I am sure concerns every honourable member of this House is that it is excellent, wonderful and great but 1130

May 29, 1972 Mr. Aylward Tape no. 376 Page 2 the number of people with which we are really - what I am primarily concerned with are the people who are not yet receiving compensation, who according to the recommendations of the commission felt that they were entitled to compensation. Before they can get the benefits from the fund, they must get their compensation. I was hoping that these would be all covered by compensation. I feel certain, Mr. Speaker, that this situation in St.

Lawrence as I said before (the members of the other side must be familiar with it) will, I hope, receive the unanimous endorsation of every member of this House. I think the greatest monument that we can have the greatest tribute to the memory of these great men is to acknowledge now their right to compensation and pay their widows and dependents. On the question of legal aid, Mr. Speaker, I am sure that probably in the estimates,when the matter comes before us, we will have ample time to discuss it.

I would just like to say that I think the Law ~ociety qf the Province deserve a great deal of credit for the contribution which they made to legal aid over the past years . Since its inception this plan in 1968, from June, 1968 up until January 1, 1972, was operated entirely by the Law Society. All service ·rendered to any of the needy under the plan was rendered voluntarily and not one lawyer received one cent for any service provided to any recipient of legal aid. I am very, very pleased with the co-operation that the committee and the society received from all the lawyers.

I think that it is a step .in the right direction,for this government to try and make more financial assistance available to them. I feel that this is one area of social concern that has been neglected. It is a very, very important area. Mr. Speaker, as much ·injury and turmoil and anxiety can result from a broken contract, as I have so often said, as a broken leg. We all know that under our different medical schemes today, all types of help is made available to people who suffer any physical disability or indeed need any medical aid. When it comes 11_31

May 29, 1972 Tape no. 376 Page 3 Mr. Aylward to a broken contract and, of course, there are so many of these today, particularly in the area of marital matters and many of these people cannot afford lawyers and the women and children in particular ate· in desperate need of legal assistance. The present pl~n does not cover this situation,only where the children or one of the parties to the marriage their health is in jeopardy.

I would like to see this plan extended so as to ensure that any party to a marriage particularly the women and the children who need legal advice and assistance that it be made available to them and also that they will be entitled to select a lawyer of their choice. Under the present plan, we have today a full-time lawyer employed by the Legal Aid Committee and the Law Society,with funds, of course, provided by the government. Mr. Speaker, this is a step in the right direction but it is not the ideal situation.

I would like to see in this province some plan that would entitle the recipient of legal-aid to select any lawyer they desire. Certain recommendations have been made by the Law Society and the committees of the government to work out a scheme and a scale to cover this situation. I do hope that the present Minister of Justice will see to it that this plan is expanded to meet the situation which I just mentioned. p.N HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) MR. AYLWARD: He has been very busy , has he not? He should have done it before you see.

In New Brunswick, Mr.·Speaker, that province alone spends in excess of $Q00,000 a year on legal-aid,in criminal matters, just $600,000. In Nova Sco~ia, they will spend this year in excess of $400,000. In Newfoundland last year a grant was put up to $25,000. Only since January of this year was any lawyer paid anything to administer legal-aid. Of course,that was Mr. Chalker who has been employed on a full-time basis. Mr. Speaker, 1132

May 29, 1972 Tape no. 376 Page 4 Mr. Aylward I am very, very interested in this problem. I have more to say on it when the matter comes up either by legislation or when it is dealt with by the commit tee • Education, Mr. Speaker, is a matter of great concern to all of us. I am sure we are very, very pleased with the great strides made by the University and I think in the recent years we have seen the formation of so many school boards. The laymen concerned with education have become more cognizant of the problems confronting government. Mr.

Speaker, I think we are all aware now of the great debt owed the churches for the contribution which they have made to education over the years, particularly the Roman Catholics. We owe an awful lot to the church and to the Christian Brothers and the Sisters of Mercy and the Presentation Sisters. I think, Mr. Speaker, that the people in the outports of this province and indeed St. John's owe an eternal debt to the Christian Brothers for the great sacrifice and dedication that they have made to education and for the benefits which all of us who were fortunate enough to obtain an education from them.

Of course I think even more so is credit due to the two religious orders; namely the Presentation Sisters and the Sisters of Mercy. Mr. Speaker, they operated convents in the rural districts of Newfoundland over a hundred years ago • . 'In fact in my own district of Placentia in 1864 the Presentation Convent was established there. I think in Burin there has been one there over a hundred years - Sisters of Mercy. In Brigus there has been one there over a hundred years.

When one realizes the circumstances and the difficulties under which these men and women operated,I think we should never forget this great contribution to the educational life of this province. Mr. Speaker, as I said before, as far as the University is concerned, we are all very, very proud of the growth of it. I think the government have a responsibility not alone to people attending University but to all the students graduating from Grade XI. We are compelled, of course, to ask ourselves: Are all the students who graduate from the schools 1133

May 29. 1972 Tape no. 376 Page 5 Mr. Aylward. receiving their fair share of the education dollar? A very. very small percentage of the graduates from Grade XI are ever fortunate enough to attend University. i134

May 29, J~72 Tape No. 377 NC - 1 There are a large number of grade XI students who cannot even get into Trade School. We have a duty to these large numbers of students as well. What the answer is, Mr. Speaker, I do not know but I know how great the demandson the Treasury must be from the University. We are all very, very proud of the accomplishments of the University and I do not think anyone would want to see any inter- ference whatsoever in the academic life of that institution but we must be aware of our obligation to ensure the government that we are obtaining good value for our dollars.

I remember only some months ago speaking with one of the professors at the university who was expressing to me the problem and concern of the faculty at trying to maintain even law and order on the campus at certain times and that even university property was in danger,because of certain people either visiting the campus or not. Now Mr. Speaker, I think that we have a right to demand, a right I to expect demand and I suppose a duty to man that law and order be maintained and that our property be protected.

It is the property of the Province and of course we can I think expect that the teachers and professors at these institutions will display equal respect for law and order. I know as one citizen of the Province, I mysel~ was not very impressed with the action of a professor at that University in dumping garbage on the lawn of the American Consulate. I think anyone has a right to register his dissent if we do not agree with what is going on. But Mr.

Speaker, I respectfully submit that we have a right to expect a little more from men in these positions than complete defiance and disrespect for the law,because we have children attending these universities and they are accepting the words and the advice and the direction of these men. While they have every right, as I mentioned earlier, to register their di~!ilen,t in disagreeing, in a free society,. , I think that that should be limited to the confines of the law. I do 11S5

May 29, 1972 Tape No. 377 NC - 2 not think they should be entitled to take the law into their own hands and to defy the law, because as I said before, they have a position of influence on the youth attending the university. I am serious about this, Mr. Speaker, and how many parents, ask themselves if they would want their sons and daughters to emulate that action. I do not think too many of our Newfoundland people are of the type that would invite open disobedience of the law. AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. AYLWARD: Yes, and we heard nothing from the university in regard to the conduct of the gentleman.

I think we could expect, in a situation of that nature, that the senate or the l!oard of r.egents or someone in authority at that institution would tell the public of the province what they think of that. What would we do as an employer and employee if we had an individual employed with us who openly defied our law? But,Mr. Speaker, perhaps there was some public statement on it but I cannot remember every hearing one from either the faculty nor the board of regents at that university that they even disagreed with that action.

As I said before, individuals,in positions of that nature, have a profound influence on the lives of others and particularly students attending these lectures and listening to these people - what can they conclude but this must be the right and the proper course of action. Now,Mr. Speaker, another great need in my district ~nd I suppose one throughout the province,and that is a need for recreational facilities for young people because if we are to do anything for our young people of course we have to keep them employed and to keep them occupied.

We have our problems in Newfoundland with youth,like everywhere else,but I think, Mr. Speaker, we can point with pride to the fact that Newfoundland is still probably the best place in North America to bring up a family. Indeed we all are glad of t~at and particularly fathers and parents and we try to 1136

Hay 29, 1972 Tape No. 377 NC - 3 keep this province in such a 'vay that it would still continue to be behind the rest of the world as far as drugs, gangsterism and crime and everything else is concerned. I think we have that, Mr. Speaker, and I might say in passing that I was a bit disappointed in the findings of the Le Dain Commission; they would legalize the use of cannabis and its derivitive~. The unfortunate

part I think, Mr. Speaker, of the finding of this Commission,in this respect that drug use will escalate. I think anyone who just listens to the news media will certainly see the pronounced increase in the incidents of possession and trafficking in drugs in this province over the past two years. Only a short two or three years ago, less than three years when the first case came to our courts, we hardly knew what a narcotic was or what a drug was. Today ~.here is hardly a week goes by but we have a large number of arrests both for possession and trafficking. :.

I feel, Mr~ Speaker, like I am sure a great many Canadians feel, that no young person should have a c~iminal record as a result of the hashish, or grass or cannabis or any of the derivitives of cannabis. But, Mr. Speaker, to say that they should not have a criminal record is one thing but to legalize it is something else. In this respect, Mr. Speaker, I find myself in accordance with the view of the minority on that Commission, namely the political sociologist, Mr. Campbell, because I think his reasoning was certainly appealing when he said it was going to create the impression for young people that pot was safe.

This could be bad, Mr. Speaker, if they felt that there is just nothing wrong with it, because I really feel that the commission itself did not make such a finding. In fact the Commission found that there were four areas of great social concern and I just mention these, Mr. Speaker, because everybody gets the idea, or a great number of people concluded that since the Le Dain recommended the legalization of the possession of cannabis, that there is 1137

May 29, 1972 Tape No. 377 NC - 4 nothing wrong with it. But, Mr. Speaker, I would in quoting here from Time Magazine, Syd Campbell, who was the man who filed the minority report, went along with the majority in isolating the four grounds for social concern over cannabis. He differed only in attaching more weight.

Those grounds were the commission's fears, so the Le Dain Commission in its entirety all have these four fear: (1) while we do not have experimental evidence, hallucinogenic experiences may »ell harm the maturing process in adolescents; (2) that pot makes for dangerous driving; (3) that there is at least the possibility that for some people heavy smoking can cause serious mental problems; and (4) that by stimulating a taste for drug experiences, lowering inhibitions about experimenting with more dangerous drugs. In other words, Mr.

Speaker, by just experimenting with this marijuana or grass or hash, they can be led on to other drugs,and this

article points out that this was a considerable change of heart from the interim Le Dain Report which found that there was no evidence of any prog~ession. So the final report of the Le ~ain Commission did find, Mr. Speaker, that there was this progression and that this 1138

't-~ay 29, 1972, Tape 378, Page 1 -- apb MR. AYLWARD: I respectfully submit is one of the sad consequences of the conclusions by youth that -"well, pot is all right now it is legal and if it is legal it must be safe. " We had with us cigarettes I suppose for one hundred and twenty­ five years (The first factory in Cuba ~as over a hundred years ago) before we realized really how dangerous cigarettes were. Even now in some provinces and indeed the federal government are asking that they be labelled poison. Our experimentation, t-~r.

Speaker, with these drugs have been really relatively short,when one considers how long it takes for research and medical science to come up with answers to the effects of these drugs over a long period of time on different individuals. ~Vhat apparently the LeDain Commission and the majority have recommended is to legalize use but not distribution. Then of course, 11r, Speaker 1 as the other member on the minority report found (the 'Harie Andre Bertrand) that to legalize use but not d~stribution would inevitably expand the illicit market for drugs and encourage the involvement of organized crime.

In other words, it is no crime today to have the drug in your possession, but you cannot sell it. To legalize use and at the same time make distribution illegal is inviting the underworld to get out and deal in these drugs. Mr. Speaker, if our young people become associated with individuals who distribute and sell marijuana, cannabis etc., then there is every reason, it is certainly much more likely that they are going to meet individuals who ~vill sell both the restricted drugs and of course the other more serious narcotics , heroin, cocaine and the others.

I think, if the public reports are correct, '' e already have wha't appears to be a prosecution before the courts for heroin. }~ r. Speaker, I am glad to learn that the many individuals in this province and indeed some members of this government have expressed their disagreement with that finding of the majority on that commission. While I am speaking of drugs, '1-~r. Speaker, there is one other thing I '\olOUld like to mention, that is an ·instance that happened here when my hon. 1139

~ay 29, 1972, Tape 378, Page 2 -- apb friend the member for White Bay South was the ~inister of Justice, (he is not in the chamber now but he is outside, I am sure he can hear me.) and that was when some months ago ,.,e had before the courts of this province a girl from Toronto who had been convicted of, I think it was possession for the purpose of trafficking under the Food and Drug Act. Another charge is pending against that girl for possession for the purpose of trafficking under the Narcotic Control Act or vice versa. Mr.

Speaker, after that ~irl had been sentenced to serve a term of imprisonment in Her l1a.iesty's Penitentiary on the first charge, and ,.,hile another charge was outstanding against her, not alone a second charge was outstandinp against her but an appeal had been filed fro~ the sentence which she obtained under the first conviction, we learned from the C.B.C. that this girl was going to be interviewed on two occasions. The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation was permitted to take the cameras inside the walls of the penitentiary to interview this girl and show that shol.7 before that case was concluded in court.

As soon as I learned of it, Mr. Speaker, I tried to contact the Department of Justice and I was advised that the ~inister of Justice or the Actin~ ~inister of Justice at the time had given permission to the C.B.C. to intervie~r this girl and that he would be seeing the show before it was placed on the air. I felt then, }1r.

Speaker, and I made my views known to the C.B.C, I could not get the Minister of Justice at the time, but I did speak to his deputy, I certainly felt this show should not go on the air until (1) all cases pending against the girl had been handled by the courts and (2) that the appeal period had expired. I feel, Mr. Speaker, that this was very, very improper. It was improper for the C.B.C. to show that film and these interviews with that girl before her case was concluded in the courts. I was concerned about the matter and was requested to visit the C.B.C. studios with the police to hear the show.

I was there with two police officers and heard the sound track, I did not see the video. I was only concerned,of course, 1140

'lay 2Q, 197 2, Tape 378, Page 3 -- apb l''r. Speaker, whether she had said anything in the interview which \muld affect or concern the police or the case or how we were handlinr; it at the time. After the matter was over I told the officials of the C.B.C., that while I felt that it would be all right in the proper time, the show should not be put on until the case was dispensed with by the courts. I think you, Mr. Deputy Speakert were acting for the girl at the time. I also know that you ~•ere contacted on the matter as well. But,. ?-!r.

Speaker, this gave this girl an opportunity to get on the air to postulate her views, to say this, to say that and create in a sense a bit of a heroine. I think that the Attorney General in my own view ~vas ~rrong in giving her permission or giving the C.B.C. permission to interview the girl and to tape that interview and to show it on T.V., certainly before the case was over. After the case was over, Mr. Speaker, of course that was an entirely different matter.

She had I feel been put in a position by the Department of Justice where she could herself have done or said something,which in fact she cid, which could have been very, very prejudicial to her own defense had she pleaded not guilty to the charges subsequently brought a~ainst her in the courts. '1r. Speaker, I think my time is running out now.

J"inally, I would say in conclusion that I sincerely hope that this government will be able to discharge the great mandate given to them and that the people can in four or five years say, "the time has come now, they have done a good _iob to return them.'' Thank you very much. t~. PEID: ~r. Speaker, members of the House of Assembly; I am happy to be accorded this opportunity to speak in reply to the Speech from the Throne. I am very happy to be associated with the great Progressive Concervative Party and to be a member of the House of Assembly representinp, the District of Trinity South.

I might add that it is quite unique for a P.C. to be representing my district in this honourable House 1-141

May 29, 1972, Tape 378, Page 4 -- apb Changes do come and results of the recent general election have shown this unmistakably. Mr. Speaker, the results of this election have shmm that the great majority of our people have acquired a faith i!l the P.C.Party and a great confidence in the ability to govern wisely. 1142

May 29, 1972 Tape 379 JM- 1 ~his confidence has inspired in them a hope for the future prosnerity of our country. It has r-iven them a great expectation for a better lvay of life for themselves and for their children. They believe, and riehtly so,that Newfoundland and Labrador have taken on a new look for a more progressive image. We ask ourselves why has such a change in outlook in Newfoundland taken place.

The District of Trinity Sonth,which remains so reliable,is one of the reasons why a change has taken place and I hone to give vou at least one or two reasons why they and also the other people around Newfoundland have made a chanp,e. They were verv loyal to the Liberal Party for so long. Hr. Speaker, I can rive several reasons but at least I will give you one or two. The peonle that I represent have been very patient. They have been grossly nerlecterl.

T'1ey looked forward in high anticipation year after year for something good but the most they received was a series of disappoint!'lents until at last the ma.iori ty of them gave up hope and decided to switch their allegiance to a more progressive party, the Progressive Conservative Party. That way they helped to make this change by the inspiration they received from the bright nrogramme for improvement outlined in the Speech from the Throne in the 3)th r,eneral Assemhly,three weeks ago.

My people in Trinity South are looking forward to various improve­ ments which I know all over Net~foundlanrl and Labrador will probably he lookim~ for similar thini"s. He in Trinity South are looking forward to new industries based on prorluction and complete processing of cod salmon , lobster , crab and others.

Our fishermen are looking to us to help them more with the federal government as far as wharfs and breakwaters are concerned. fhere are also in Trinity South various nlaces which have been prossly neglected through slipways because a tremendous lot of our neople do not have a place to haul UP their long ­ liners and their fishing boats. · This is something ~hat thev are certainly 1143

May 29, 1972 Tape 379 hopinp in Trinity South that this government will do somethin~ about and I will be working very hard to see that this is realized in Trinity South. JM - 2 ~~e are also in Trinity South looking to our forestry. 1-Te have forest5 down there and we have saw mills which are not operatin~ which should be today 1 because of lack of aid. Some of our small mills have gone out of business because of competition. If they had a little more help and a little l'lore modern ecuipment our saw mills in that area would certainly be able to make a dollar.

There is certainly timber there because this last twentv-five, thirty years,in certain areas in Trinity South.the lumber has been growin~. Also boats. we are building longliners in Trinity South and we should build more and better longliners. Other base industries such as preparing the pasture land for cattle raising and improvement of our land for greater !Jerry oroduc.tion. l·!e pick a lot of berries in Trinity South anQ various areas.

They have been burning certain areas for years and there is no question about it it has made a tremendous lot of difference to the people down there especially when it comes to the fall of the year when the berries get ripe and all the children, wives and sometimes husbands can certainly help. The people down there help themselves by getting books and help themselves to get clothing and various thinRS to get back to school. Cattle raising, we could have a lot more if we certainly orepared the land down in Trinity South. Mr. Speaker, now I ~.rill get to the condition of the road.

I would like to speak about the condition of our roads in Trinity South. I covered Trinity South quite often and lfuitbourne and Markland area has been deplorable. We have a hospital in Markland and this year and this last twenty-five to thirty years we have been using bulldozers every spring of the year, sometimes in the winter, in order 1144

May 29 , 1 972 Tape 379 JM- 3 to ~et into our hospital. It has been deplorable. This has been going on twentv-five to thirty years. He were certainly hoping in years r-one by that this would be taken care of especially at our hospital ~·rhich is one of the most important thinp.s. I would say, in Trinity South. Hhitbourne has been ne~lected terribly. I remember all last summer it was i~possible to go over lJhitbourne road. You had to detour , you had to ignore it, you had to stay out of it. The neople ~rho ~•ere doinr their own shopping in H'hitbourne had to walk.

They coul .J never use the roads because of the deplorable condition that road was left in. I know they ~rere nutting in the water and sewage in hlhitbourne but in the meantime they did not have to disrupt the whole community and the '"hole communi tv was disrupted from one end to the other. ~ve have Chapel Arm, Nonnans Cove, Thornlea, Bellevue, Chance Cove and Long Cove, we have those communities do~ there . and twenty-five to thirty years a~o we ' had a very ~ood gravel road,then when the Trans Canada came through that was neplected. It has been neglected ever since.

Twenty-five years ar.o when I was travelling that road 1 it was a tremendous lot better than it is today. ~~en I travelled that curjng this carnpaipn it would break your heart to see the condition that these neople were oneratinp.: over with their new cars, new trucks and various automobiles.

It was ridiculous and when I spoke just now, the petition here 1 supported was part of the district that I am speal :inp about right now and I assure you that that is a certain area that is ne~lected because one thing they have no alternative, no way to get to the Trans Canada ~rithout usinp that road and we have several communities there and they are very, very disturbed because of the condition of that road. He have below Hant's Harbour rio;ht to Lead Cove very deplorable conditions. This year even on Sundays we had to get equipment out 1145

May 29, 1972 Tape 379 .1!1 - 4 there in order to let people ~et to the hospital at Old Per lican and for their transportAtion and vehicles to ~et throu¢h. This has been poin~ on for vear in :md vear out not because of t:he weather ,.,e had thi.s winter bttt this road has been deplorable for years. This road has been there fifty years. This ro~d was there lon~ before a lot of roads were buiJ.t in Newfoundland and this road today is not fit for A human beinA to run a vehicle over. IJe <~lso have a hospital ripht at C\ld Perlican - 1146

May 29, 1972 Mr. Reid. Tape no. 380 Page 1 - MRW a tremendous lot of my people in my district have to go to that hospital. I assure you that the conditions that I saw since I travelled that area are ridiculous. We have several byroads that are forgotten although we are accused sometimes of having a tremendous lot of asphalt down in Trinity South. We have some. A tremendous lot of our communities are ignored and have been neglected because probably we did get a little asphalt down there.

Remember my district, at least with me just to drive through it, I got to do 120 miles of road without visiting all my communities. We have water and sewerage as another problem in Trinity South. I heard the hon. member from Bonavista North ( I think I may quote him right) .. say that they had nineteen communities there with water and sewerage completed. If I am not greatly mistaken, I think that was his statement. We have one community completed in Trinity South. We have another community which has it started. We have four more communities which are only allowed water.

This is all we have received since this last twenty-two years. I assure you that I have a tremendous lot of people in my district who need water and sewerage as badly as any one on this island. pollution is there in galores. AN RON. MEMBER: How many town councils are there? There is no question, MR. REID: I could not say how many town councils we have there at the present time. We might have a dozen. Medical services: The hospital at Markland (there is no question about it) is deteriorating. The hospital in Markland is only a joke. It is only a joke.

If you get hurt, get a cut or anything, mostly you have to go to St. John's. Very few facilities are in Markland. In Come-by-Chance, there is very little room, very +ittle space. I am not so familiar with Old Perlican. I hear a few complaints from the Bay de Verde member and I'hope he spoke about it when he spoke Recreation: That is one thing which is lacking in Trinity South, recreational facilities. We need playgrounds, swimming pools. There is no question about it. We need a stadium. We have to travel at least eighty or ninety 1147

May 29, 1972 Tape no. 380 Page 2 Mr. Reid miles to get to a stadium. We have to go into Clarenville or we have to go to Harbour Grace. Quite often, it is booked up. Stadiums are over- crowded. With 120 miles of road, I think we should get a stadium in our area. We want to have good, healthy citizens so we must have swimming pools, recreation centres and we must have rinks for these people to work off their energies. We are doing our upmost at the present time. Under the conditions and with the finances that we have our people in Trinity South have worked very hard now to try and get a stadium in Trinity South.

We need it. The only thing about it is that the opportunity for jobs is not there. Our people are among some of the poorest of the island in Trinity South. We do not have the trades. A lot of the people are fishermen. Today a lot of them are out of the boats and they are labour- men. The opportunity is not there like a great many more districts. Our tourist attractions: We have lovely picnic grounds in areas if they were only just cleaned up and worked on and spend a few dollars on them. We should beautify our beaches and landscapes. This can be a great thing. This is something we have all neglected.

There are beautiful spots to go down and boil up, if you had a few little tables and the place was cleaned up and we had a place so our people could go in and sit down and enjoy themselves and have a lunch. Telephone System: The telepho~e system in Trinity South has been wicked. It has been terrible. We still have the dial system. We have all kinds of systems in Trinity South, Long distance is very short as far as only I am concerned because we can~use a few miles without using long distance. Our schools, ninety per cent of our schools, we have to call them long distance. It is a long-distance call.

There are only about five or six miles between some of these long distance phone calls and then our schools are fifteen and twenty miles away. In a great many cases, our doctors are just as far away or further away from us. Our hospitals are twice as far away. Unless you want to call your neighbour in Trinity South, you certainly have to sperd 1148

May 29, 1972 Tape no. 380 Page 3 Mr. Reid money to do it. Another thing we need in Trinity South very badly is a senior citizens' home. At least we should have one in our district. I do not think that is expecting too much. I know we would love to have one in Trinity South • In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, the needs of my district are representative of the needs in many other districts of Newfoundland and Labrador. I feel that our proposed programme as outlined in the Speech from the Throne will result in great improvements in the existing conditions for all our people.

We are all working together: government, opposition and the people in general. We cannot realize all our goals. We can never hope to reach the state of Utopia but we are capable of making conditions a lot better for all Newfoundland and Labrador. The Speech from the Throne is our blueprint for a better Newfoundland. It is the chart that will guide this government on a successful and responsible career. MR. A.M. DUNPHY: Mr. Speaker, it is with a great sense of pride ' and awareness of my responsibility to the people of my district that I rise to speak before this great Assembly and its honourable members. Mr.

Speaker, I have been honoured by the people of the historic District of St. George's to be their representative in this honourable House. For this honour, for this privilege, for this great faith ~n myself and our great party, I am most grateful. Mr.

Speaker, I have been sent here by my people because the people of my district came to believe that within the framework of an open and honest people-caring Progressive Conservative Government, their long neglected interests would be served and that the Progressive Conservative Government could and would provide the opportunities for a better way of life fer themselves and their children, than they had known under the previous administration. Mr. Speaker, the people of St. George's are not looking for hand- outs but they are asking to be given the opportunity to participate and share 1149

May 29, 1972 Mr • DI.Ulphy Tape no. 380 Page 4 in the development of our province particularly in the development of our timber, agricultural, mineral, tourist and fisheries wealth. I am happy, Sir, to report that the District of St. George's has been well-blessed with these natural resources, 1150

May 29, 1972. Tape 331. Page 1. possibl v more so than other distr:f.cts. I wonder Mr. Speaker, at this noint,when is our government going to take the initiative for arranging the development of large and commercially viable self deposits known for some time to be in our district. We have a point i.n our district today 1~hen unewployment is rampant. l~e are looking for development, looking for.,ard to development still no word on this. I would certainly like for the department to assist project relates to make it known to us 1,•h en and ho~or. Mr. Speaker, as outlined from the Gracious Speech from the Throne.

The base resources of our province, the sea, the land, the clean air and pure water must create the foundation upon which our ne1.r Newfoundland society 1dll be built in order to make the nrovince a place in which our young veorle can gr01,T and find onportunities to develop and utilize the skills and talents which are theirs. He must, for Newfoundland's sake make use of our human resource, our people, by not only creating jobs for them but a sense of challenge and pride and purpose in New- foundland life. For too long now our young people have been leaving the province to seek jobs and onnortunities elsewhere.

Mr. Speaker, the time has come and the time is now to present to our Newfoundland people those pr~grammes as outlined from the Speech from the Throne that I feel sure will change the economic comple xion of our island province and keep our youth at home to make Newfoundland a prosperous and self sufficient province. ~r. Speaker, I represent a very large district. It stretches from '' ' ' lants in the east to the great Codroy Valley in the west. You are all familiar with the Codroy Valley. We have there large tracts of rich and fertile land. I am sad to say,Mr.

Speaker, that at this point in our history the production of root crop and other related farming in the rodroy Valley and also in the Robinson's Jeff<ey 1 s, Highlands, Heatherton, area Cartyville, has regressed over the years. We are producing less today 1151

May 29, 19"/2. Tape 381. Page 2. from this great farming country than we did prior to confederation. As a matter of fact it is one heck of a lot less today than it was then. I am happy and pleased and look forward with great anticipation that these areas that I just mentioned, the Codroy Valley, Robinson's area ,.Jill receive the full benefit in the programmes outlined for farmers in the Speech from the Throne.

Some years ago, I suppose lvhen the Steubenville air hase ·>tarted · and the former Premier of the Provi.nce was encouraging the fishermen an'.; the farmers to get out of their boats, find employment elsewhere, in factori.es that never did materialize. But Stephenville, the Harmon complex, did remain around for a good number of years, duri.ng the ,.;ar years and a short time thereafter. People were not encouraged to farm at that time. They left their farms to ~eek employment, steady employment in the Harmon air base at that particular time. As you kno~r that has phased out.

A lot of these that were getting employment there at that time returned to their farms to start life again on the farms,to make a living from the soil. Thev did not have any problems in growing. That was not the big problem. Thev grew crops the hard way, with lack of equipment. The biggest orohlem was marketing. They had to compete with the imports from Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick. These were subsidized produce by the governments of these provinces. As a result ended up i.n most cases,at the end of the harvest having to dump their produce. That is a very sad state of affairs.

But, I am hoping that under the ne1v approach that the department of Agricul ,ture is taking towards agriculture out on our west coast, particularly '"fth the bui' ding of the new abattoir there, pot only will farmers through these programmes be able to expand their farms, grow more produce, but also to diversify. We in this province are importing immense amounts of foodstuffs,like beef, Pork, broilers.

We hear that we have such places as the Codroy Valley and the Robinson's area that are able to produce,to get in this field, and possibly over the next ten years provide for this island the necessary foodstuffs for our tables. It would not only be good 1152

~ ay 29 , 1972. Taoe 381 . Page 3 . for the urovince, the economy but also fo r our ~overoment. It t~ould cut back on the social assis tance that is now so orevalent throu~hout the district .

Just a few days a~o the De~artment of A~riculture issued an announcement to the effect that the $3,000 once available for the ourchase of eoui~ment, $3 ,500 that was ava£lahle for the small loans, $3,500 for the nurchase o f land, cultivation of land 1 for land ourchase and the 83,50 0 that t~a~; available for the ourchase of livestod <, t'lis could be lum~ed t op.ether making up $10,000 and anolied to any one of the~e three items that I have just mentioned. l'h:. Soeaker, I am sure that most of the int erested farmers of the nrovince will" a~t ree that this is an improvement.

Bul it is a far crv to accommodate their needs to exnand their farms at this dav and a~e . Actually this $10,000 would be more likelv to ~et them in trouble rather than helo them, 1153

Hay 29, 1972 Tape 382 because a tractor today, speaking of equipment, costs in the vicinity of $12,500 not to mention the other accessories that would go with it. I am suggesting very strongly that the department meet with the faFmers, discuss with them their needs and come up with a better plan than that one. MR. NEARY: Are these loans or grants MR. nHNPHY: These are loans, Sir. three per cent. I think it is in the vicinity 9f Mr.

Speaker, I will not go much further on the farming area but I would just like to say that I believe that we have a future in farming out in my district and I hope that sooner than soon the responsible parties of government get going in this direction. It has been long awaited, the people are anxious and we need it. The Bay St George Area has long been productive in fisheries particularly ground fish.

I am sad to say that the fishing that has been done there in that great bay has not been done by the local people but interests outside of Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, United States has been harvesting our great resource and taking it elsewhere for processing leaving no jobs, leaving no money in the pockets of our fishermen or our people there. What we .need and need very badly is a NB - 1 boat building facility in Bay St. George, for starters. Because of the neglect over the year, we possess little or nothing in the way of harbours.

Time and time again during my short term in office I have approached Mr. Jack Marshall, M.P. for our district,to approach the Department of Public Works in Ottawa to improve on the harbour facilities such as they are at Crabs River Basin and the Codroy Harbour and St. George's. Today in the Crabs River Basin it is an adequate and beautiful area there that right mid-way,smack in the middle of Bay St. George where boats cannot come in for shelter where the local fishermen, the l~cal shore fishermen 1154

May 29, 1972 Tape 382 Mr. Dunphy. who are fishing out of small eighteen foot boats,primarily lobster fishing, some salmon fishing, very little cod fishing they are not geared up for this, they have to drag their boats over sandbars, rocks and what have you. Docking and getting on and getting off NB - 2 shore istreacherouEbut the department at Ottawa has failed to recognize the potential of this harbour at Crabs River Basin over the past twenty years.

I do not know how much representation was made in the old administration, if any, but I was looking at some files recently in this respect and I note that after fifteen or twenty years of briefs and petitions by the people of the area that it only reached Ottal~a through the responsible people in November of 1971. A very sad state of affairs. Mr. Speaker, I would like for the Minister of Fisheries, 'if he is in the House today, to take note that we are still looking for the development of the Crabs River area, the Crabs River Basin.

We need dredging there, we need a breakwater there and we must have it, and, if he would do his utmost to impress Ottawa with this need. Down at St. George's that at one time berthed large ships and all types of fishing craft, that harbour is gone. There is little or no water at the head of the government wharf. Boats come in their for ahelter now and in a lot of cases go aground while there. This is another case of gross and utter neglect. Silt has been allowed to accumulate from the Sandy Point Bar area to come down and keep piling up and piling up and nobody seem to care. As a result, St.

George's has lost a lot of it marine trade. The fishermen are being discouraged from building qoats to prosecute the fishery because there are no harbours. Nobody seems to care. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that this government does care and this . government will hear their cry for help and possibly over the next six 1155

May 29, 1972 Tape 382 NB - 3 Mr. Dunphy. months or year that we may see some improvements in that direction. A lot of people of my district were once employed in the woods of the area, but today with the cut-back of the Bowaters operation, a lot of their wood come from the east, this has been practically phased out. Now in the Speech from the Throne lt stated,large corporations owning large timber tracks that if they do not put these concessions to good use, they will loose them.

I hope this government fol- lows through on this. hecause there are many small operators in our area today who wish to expand their little sawmill operations to get into the lumber business, because in this country there is a big market for lumbe~. I have been led to believe that we are importing about ei~hty per centof our wood products. It is a shame. But be that as it may, what Crown Land is left available it is not tied up in concessions, there is not that much of it and I think that if we get involved 'n any large scale, which I hope we will, that these Crown areas are not going to support these mills.

We need more. we need access to more timber country and I think this timber country in due course will have to come from the large paper corporations who tie up so much of our Island. They have more, one in particular on our coast, tied up than they will possible ever use. I think government should follow through on this and make it available to our people for their use. At Stephenville Crossing the people are asking to have ~orne money contributed towards that end. For a first class medical centre and if you like a combination of an old age home and geriatric ward for ' ambulatory type patients.

This has gone before the Department of Health. It · is all outlined. I have not heard any clear answer on this as yet, but I do hope that they will give it consideration. It is much needed. 1156

May 29, 1972 Tape 382 NB - 4 down in Gallants, further to the east - by the way, the hospital facility which I just mentioned was formerly the old cottage hospital at the Crossing. All the facilities have been taken out of it and the staff, of course, have all gone to Stephenville 1157

May 29. 1972 Tape No. 383 NC - 1 and it is just an empty building there now lying useless, idle. It is costing a tremendous amount of money too. The welfare is located there the local doctor, very limited facilities, but the building itsel~ is not being utilized and it is my belief that it can be utilized, put to good use and also create some employment for the people of Stephenville Crossing. I have not given up on this. I heard through the grape vine that the cost in updating it were somewhat too high, possibly. If the costs were too high then I suggest they would consider building a new one, either way.

I have just come back from my district, Mr. Speaker, spending almost two weeks there, and feel of all the areas of the province, that the District of St. George's is really a tourist mecca. But it is not being developed. I understand from the Speech from the Throne, that help will be available to develop our tourist areas, our many streams, roads, access road·s to these places, our beaches, our picnic areas, our parks, the parks that we have, which came there under the old administration, and I must say that ~arachoix Park in the District of St.

George's is one of the most beautiful spots anywhere in eastern Canada, a beautiful place to spend a holiday. Although it can be expanded upon. I understand that this is going ahead at this time. Mr. Speaker, something I am particularly interested in in regards to our tree resources, our fir trees, is the Christmas tree industry.

Now we have there in our district large tracks of young growth, Ordinarily I think to produce_or to grow a tree ready for harvesting of pulp or lumber, somewhere in the vicinity between thirty and sixty years, but the harvesting of Christmas trees is only a reproduction time I think in the vicinity of six or seven years. In other words, you can have almost four crops over a period of thirty years. There is a tremendous market in the United States and Europe. We have large areas where grGWth is quite thick but do not make ideal Christmas trees like that, but with trimming and pruning, these large 1158

May 29, 1972 Tape No. 383 NC - 2 areas of cut over timber lartds we can have here in Newfoundland a huge eXDort matket of Christmas trees. I beieve this market is in the millions of Christmas trees, multiply this by the final price in the vicinity of $3, $4, $5, $6, $7, you have a tremendous industry. I hope the responsible department will.give this consideration, There is much expertise available to assist us in this. In the trimming operat~on alone which covers hundreds of. ~Quare miles, it will~ 1159

~'ay 29, 1972, Tape 384, Page 1 -- apb employ a considerable amount of men, it will pay for itself. I hope our minister will give this consideration. Mr. Speaker, I do not have much more to say. It has been a privilege to speak before this House. I have great expectations, my people have great expectations and I sincerely hope and wish them well the members of this government, to get these programmes on the go as soon as possible so that our people can participate in them and make for a better way of life for us all. 1o1R • FRED ROlffi: '1-~r.

Speaker, this is the first time I have had the opportunity to congratulate you on your election to your important office. I feel sure, Sir, that you are capable, and that you are an able gentleman and that you will execute the important function of this House with dignity and efficiency. I sincerely hope that you will be able to carry out your duties without unnecessary difficulties. I would like also, Sir, to congratulate every member of this honourable House. We represent a great diversity of districts, the individual members of this House.

There are geographical differences, there are employment differences, there are resource differences and the problems and the needs of almost all of the districts are different. Individual members may feel that the problems that they encounter in their district are unique only to their own particular districts. This may or may not be so. However, Sir, we all have one common aim and that is to represent our districts loyally, strongly and honestly but bearing in mind that what or who we represent constitutes only one fortieth of the total province approximately.

We always have to bear in mind that there are forty 1160

May 29, 1972 Tape 384 JM - 2. }ffi. F.B. RmVE: ------ - other districts with their own needs and their own problems when we stand to represent the needs of our own district. Therefore, Sir, I sincerely hope that all honourable members on both sides of this House llill work together, that they will co-ope.rate insofar as that while working on behalf of their own district they keep at the forefront of their minds the fact that we stand together for the total good of the whole frovince of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Without that unity, Sir, without that unity of purpose government in its broadest sense will be reduced to complete confusion and anarchy. With that in mind I stand here with great pride and I feel extremely honoured to be given the opportunity to serve the great district of St. Barbe North. It is not a large district, Sir, population wise but the problems and the needs of St. Barbe North are great. I accept this as a challange and I will stand here today and say,wbatever functions I am asked or called Jpon to perform, my prime and most important responsibility is to every living soul in the District of St.

Barbe North. As far as the district is concerned, Sir, there are approximately twenty-five hundred voters and a population of about seven thousand people making up twenty-eight communities· spread over approximately 120 miles of coastline within a stone's throw of the sea. It goes from llarr'd Harbour in the south to Cook's Harbour in the north. Sir, these people, my constituents depend very heavily upon the fishery and to a lesser extent they depend on lumbering and logging. The people, Sir, represent the tough, courageous and hard working character of the true and original Newfoundlander.

They are as much a part of the sea as they are of the land. Sir, this brings constant danger, hazards, insecurity and instability in terms of employment and in terms of earning power for these people. Over fishing, fish migration, storms, ice conditions and many other factors contribute to the continuous anxiety on the part of the fishermen of St. Barbe North. Just 1161

May 29, 1972 Tape 385 JM - l this year, Sir, ice conditions have been so severe in the district and around the whole of the Northern Peninsula, east and west I guess, that the lobster fishery has been delayed considerably as has all the rest of the fishery in the area. Sir, I would like to say that St. Farbe North is the most important district in the province but, Sir, I do not think that would he fair. To me, of course, St.

Barbe North, I guess, is the most important district and to the people of the district it is certainly the most important district but I am aware that other members feel the same way about their own districts. As long as I feel that St. Barbe North is getting its fair share, that it is being treated fairly and squarely I will be satisfied and as long as the people of St. Barbe North feel the same way I am sure, Sir, they will be satisfied. Unfortunately I sincerely believe that these people do not feel satisfied at the present time therefore I accept it as my responsibilit y to rectify this particular situation.

I will not stand here, Sir, and say that St. Barbe North is the most neglected district in the province as other members have indicated on the other side of the House. I realized that individual members have to show that they stand primarily to speak on behalf of their district but I do not think it fair for so many to state that their district is the most neglected or to say that activity in certain districts represent a catalogue of neglect and deception in the past. Probably honourable members opposite .feel that that is the thing to do now that they have attained power.

Sir, I rather suspect that it is going to take probably a year or so for the honourable members on the other side of this House to become accustomed and probably comfortable in their new role . So I suspect that we shall continue to hear _from each one of them or we will hear each one of them practicing their remarks with a catalogue of criticism of the previous 1162

Ytay 29 , 1972 Tape 385 administration. Probably, Sir, they hope that this may camouflage their indecision and inactivity during their first year in office or maybe, Sir, they find it difficult to adjust to their new role. It seems to me that many of them still feel they are in opposition and they cannot shake this opposition mentality . 1163 J~l- 2

Hay 29, 1972, Tape 386, Page 1 -- apb MR.. FRED ROWE: St. Barbe North is like many other districts in this province and still a lot needs to be done. To suggest that St. Barbe North and districts like it have been the victims of neglect by the previous administration is nothing but deception,. or as I mentioned before, camouflage for inaction. Sir, I have travelled St. Barbe North periodically since as early as 1952. I travelled by boat, by aircraft, by canoe and on foot, particularly in connection with geological surveys. Sir, I have seen progress over these years.

I have seen dismal unpainted houses changed into brightly painted, clean and very decent homes. I have seen a two- class society in that very small district change into a multi-class society. I have seen great number of one room schools and I see now large central schools, high schools, large regional high schools and large elementary and primary schools. Sir, I have seen kids walk into these one room school~ on dirt cowpaths and now I see these students going to school in large modern buses. I have seen ragged and hungry looking students and kids in that district

whereas now I see happy, healthy, well-dressed young people. I have seen hundreds of small settelements in that same district with no road connections whatsoever, now I see a move towards centralization. The many communities that have not centralized are now connected up by roads. Sir, there has been progress, great progress under the previous administration. Do not let anyone deny it or try ·to pull the wool over I anyones eyes. The previous administration laid a solid and secure foundation for Newfoundland in the 70's.

The hon. gentlemen'on the other side of the House now are extremely fortunate to attain office at this point in out history. They should lower themselves to their knees and ~ay homage in ract. You have been constantly been referring back to the past about the deception and the neglect, rear-view-rnirrorism,as I heard somebody call it lately. The only problem is, Sir, that they tend to look through their rear ~7indow of a Volkswagen through the nfirror of a Cadillac, and they 1164

~ay 29, 1972, Tape 386, Page 2 -- apb only happen to show part of the story. AN HON. ~ER: (Inaudible) ~IF. F .ROWE: We will see about that. AN H9N. ¥E!'ffiER: (Inaudible) ~,1'!. WJI< .N .ROHE: The hon. member should "Qe seen and not heard. !IR. __ FJ:tED RO~_:_ Sir, I respectfully submit that the only thing or task 1165

May 29, 1972 Tape No. 387 NC - 1 that the present administration has, is keeping Newfoundland within the twentieth century and I sincerely wish them well. But let us not hear this foolishness about the neglect of the past. Every time one of them stands up to speak this is what we hear. Sir, in spite of this progress, much still needs to be done for all of the districts including the District of St. Barbe North. My constituents, Sir, wonder if they are sharing the total benefits of the recent years of progress, if they are sharing it equally and fairly with the other districts of Newfoundland.

Sir, having listened to many of them, having talked with them, received numerous phone calls and letters I am wondering as well. Sir, let us look at the situation in St. Barbe North. These people look to the northwest in the District of White Bay North and they see two fish plants, one in St. Anthony, one at Englee. They look to the south, to S~. Barbe South, and they see a fish plant at Port au Choix and they see one I believe it is under construction or just about finished in Daniel's Harbour. Sir, there is not a single fish plant in the District of St. Barbe North.

They look again to the northwest, they see the great hospital complex at St. Anthony, they see a doctor and a medical centre at Roddickton, they look to the south, Sir, and they see a hospital at Norris Point and a medical clinic I believe being constructed at Port Saunders,is that correct? Tentative, tentative now is it? Sir, they look to the northwest and they look to the south, and they have seen great progress in medical facilities and the people there' still have the same nursing station that they had for as long as I can remember. They look to the northwest again and they see pavement, at St.

Anthony and at Raleigh. They look to the south and they see pavement at Hawkes Bay and signs of pavement around.the Port au Choix area, not an inch Sir, not one inch in St. Barbe North. 1166

May 29, 1972 Tape No, 387 NC - 2 Well I hope that after that election manifesto that was delivered before the House during the Thirty-Fifth Assembly wilJ help us solve the problem. I am just reminding you of the needs of that district and I am sure,Sir, that they will be only too happy to pave every inch of road in the District of St. Barbe North. AN RON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. ROW: Can I announce that on radio tonight? I can quote you. You will start on Monday with the pavement if it is a fine day, Good enough.

Sir, I could go on with many more examples but these are the kind of things which make the people of St. Barbe North wonder whether or not they are being neglected. Sir, I just cannot stand this violent racket on the other side. Every now and then somebody shows a brief glimmer of brilliance but then everything seems to return to normal. Sir, I am asking the present administration to remember St.

Barbe North when they make their announcements of the great programmes of progress that they have indicated now1Sir, in two Throne Speeches, nne of which we could certainly consider,probably both but certainly one as an election manifesto. Sir, I would like to return to the fisheries in St. Barbe