Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Statements by Ministers — 10 May 2004 (45th General Assembly, 1st Session, Vol. XLV No. 27)
2004-05-10
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
May 10, 2004 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 27
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!
This afternoon we have Statements by Members. We have the Member for
Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, the Member for Humber Valley, the Member for Port
de Grave, and the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
This past week I had the opportunity to join with thirty-four others in
representing Newfoundland and Labrador at the Nunavut trade show and business
conference in Iqaluit. This is the fourth year in a row that Labrador
businesses, Chambers, Aboriginal groups, zonal boards, education and health
boards have partnered with Nunavut to provide new opportunities for employment,
training and innovation in the North.
Mr. Speaker, the geography, the culture and the challenges are very similar
between Nunavut and Labrador allowing us to share information and solutions that
work for our communities and our businesses. I had the opportunity to meet with
a number of ministers in the Territory and to explore opportunities that exist
for marine transportation, health, fisheries development and information
technology.
We were hosted by a fellow native Newfoundlander and Labradorian, the hon. Ed
Picco of Portugal Cove, Newfoundland, who is currently the Minister of Education
for Nunavut. Mr. Speaker, he is an example of how residents of this Province are
making their mark all over the world as leaders and activists.
I would like to take this time to thank Mr. Picco, the hon.Oliauk Akasuck,
Minister of Environment, Wildlife and Fisheries, and Mr. Steven Cook, President
of the Baffin Chamber of Commerce, and all others who embraced the Labrador
delegation on our visit.
I would also like to ask the House of Assembly to join me in congratulating
the Town of Happy Valley-Goose Bay and Councillor Madeline Kelley on signing a
twin-town partnership with Iqualit, and also the Marine Institute of
Newfoundland and Labrador on signing an education partnership agreement with the
Arctic College of Nunavut.
Mr. Speaker, the business community of Labrador is very active and certainly
proved that the skills and knowledge they have gained is applicable all
throughout the North, and indeed the world.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS GOUDIE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to congratulate a team of high school students from my district,
who this past weekend won the Envirothon competition held here in St. John's.
In the competition focused upon the environment, teams from all over the
Province were given a problem and asked to present a solution based upon a
number of factors, including the results of field testing. One of their three
teams from Elwood were given the highest ranking by the judging panel and won
the competition.
Under the sponsorship of teachers Mike Ball and Angie Thornhill, students:
Gerry Ball, Dave Ball, Matthew Pearce, Sarah Wight and Brendan Wood have won the
right to compete in an international Envirothon this coming July in West
Virginia.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all Members of the House of Assembly to join me in
congratulating the team from Elwood High on their success and wish them luck in
West Virginia this July.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize and congratulate Mrs. Nellie
Strowbridge, originally of Port de Grave, on recently completing and publishing
her third children's book entitled Dancing on Ochre Sands .
Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Strowbridge is no stranger to anyone in the
Trinity-Conception area. For eight years she wrote a weekly column, Things to
Talk About , in the local paper The Compass .
Strowbridge has had essays, poetry and stories published across North
America, receiving many awards for her work, including sixteen from the
Newfoundland and Labrador Arts and Letters Competition.
She says Dancing on Ochre Sands is a very upbeat book and deals with
life and death in a positive way, getting things that you deal with out of your
system.
The book begins in her childhood, reflects back to her grandfather, a miner
of land and sea and dances through the cycles of life.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join me in extending
congratulations to Mrs. Nellie Strowbridge on her recent accomplishments in the
literary field.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to recognize and congratulate the CeeBee's Girls Hockey Team
of Harbour Grace and their head coach Bud Chafe.
Mr. Speaker, the CeeBee girls were the proud winners of this years
Newfoundland and Labrador Provincial B Female Playdowns. These fabulous athletes
from my district defeated the Tee-Pee Flyers of Whitbourne 4-3 in overtime, to
win the tournament.
Mr. Speaker, Mr. Chafe must be acknowledged for this endeavour as he and his
group formed the team after a two-year break from female hockey in the Harbour
Grace area. Upon looking for interested participants, Mr. Chafe found more than
enough willing to strap on the skates to represent their community in the
All-Newfoundland tournament. As a result of the many practices, hard work and
dedication from both players and the coaching staff, the CeeBee's took home
the gold.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join with me in
congratulating the Harbour Grace CeeBee's and their head coach, Mr. Bud Chafe,
on their victory in the recently held All-Newfoundland tournament.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am pleased to rise in this House today to inform my colleagues of the
success of the Offshore Technology Conference which was held last week in
Houston. I led a delegation of close to 100 people from Newfoundland and
Labrador who were there to promote the success of our current projects, the
potential for new discoveries and our capability to support and service the oil
and gas industry.
What initially struck me upon my arrival at the OTC conference was the sense
of excitement that is being generated by this Province's petroleum industry.
Frankly, there are many reasons for optimism. The fact is the discovered
resources off our Province represent close to 80 per cent of the total
discovered resources off the east coast of Canada. Furthermore, our production
represents 81 per cent of the total production off the east coast of Canada. We
are certainly, in many ways, leading the way in the offshore petroleum industry.
The success of our two current producing projects is found in the Jeanne d'Arc
Basin with the Hibernia and Terra Nova fields. By early 2006, our third major
project - White Rose - will go into production and then this Province will be
producing close to half of the country's light crude oil.
And now, in addition to the highly prospective Jeanne d'Arc Basin, we will
see more exploration in two additional areas. Significant commitments have been
made for exploration in the Orphan Basin and seismic surveys are planned. Last
week we announced the completion of successful negotiations to convert the
former federal exploration permits to modern-day exploration licences in the
Laurentian Sub-basin, ending a thirty-year moratorium on exploration in this
sub-basin. We also anticipate that seismic work will be undertaken this year and
drilling could happen within eighteen to twenty-four months. In that respect,
Mr. Speaker, we would like to welcome publicly, Conocco Philips and Imperial Oil
to the emerging offshore oil and gas industry in Newfoundland and Labrador,
particularly in this basin.
The announcement by my federal colleague, the Minister of Natural Resources
for Canada, the hon. John Efford, last week to put in place a five-year
moratorium on duties imposed on mobile offshore drilling units is another
positive step to encourage offshore drilling activity.
Mr. Speaker, the OTC in Houston was an excellent venue for the delegation
from this Province to network with major players in the oil and gas industry.
These face to face meetings are among the best mechanisms we have to tout our
oil and gas potential. In addition, Mr. Speaker, just so people understand the
magnitude and significance of the conference, there were 42,000 delegates
attending the conference. I certainly commend the Newfoundland and Labrador
delegates for the exemplary representation they provided during this past week.
Among the delegates from this Province were representatives from the Cities
of St. John's and Mount Pearl and the Town of Paradise. I joined Mayor Andy
Wells at the World Energy Cities Partnerships reception, and it is evident that
the City of St. John's is becoming an important partner in the World Energy
Cities organization. As the Mayor indicated, the City views the World Energy
Cities initiative as an important element of the City's ongoing development
strategy. Mayor Wells was complimentary of our pronounced presence in Houston.
He indicated that he also sees the renewed interest in exploration activity in
our offshore and the possibility of new companies entering the exploration game.
Mr. Speaker, our government wants to build on our partnership with our
municipalities to see new development in this industry. Another critical partner
for the department is the Newfoundland Ocean Industries Association.
I look forward to NOIA's annual conference and the Offshore Petroleum Show
which takes place early next month in St. John's. Many new groups and
companies will be in attendance at that show for the first time. This will
provide us with another opportunity to promote our industry and the investment
opportunities that it presents to the Province.
Mr. Speaker, we have momentum in our offshore oil and gas sector. We need to
continue the excitement generated by the tremendous land sales in the Orphan
Basin and the opening up of the Sub-Laurentian Basin and what that could
potentially mean for the Southwest Coast of the Province. We need to get the
next development off the ground and we need to continue to promote exploration
in order to find that next discovery or discoveries. This government is
committed to working with industry to see how we can make that happen in the
best interests of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, with the anticipation of further growth in this
industry, it is abundantly clear that we need to see a positive response to our
proposal to the federal government to ensure that this Province receives more
benefits from this industry under the Atlantic Accord. This is crucial to
government's agenda , it is crucial to the needs of the people of the
Province, in order for us to grow our revenues and support the social and
economic agenda of the people of the Province.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I appreciate receiving from the minister an advance a copy of his statement
here today. I am very pleased indeed to see that he took the time to go to
Houston. This international conference is indeed very, very important for this
Province, and it is nice to see that our minister took a lead for the
Newfoundland and Labrador delegation. I point out that it is indeed
international. Some here might not have an understanding and appreciation of
just how big it is, but it is really, really big and it is really, really
important for this Province from an economic development point of view and from
the offshore oil industry as well.
It is nice not only for the minister, who is new in this role, to get an
update on the industry, but to meet some of the major players, because these
major players are going to be coming here from time to time to try to take
advantage of the opportunities that exist here. It is nice to see that our
minister has now met face to face with some of these people because that is ever
important when you are sitting across the table and trying to do deals with
these people.
I am very pleased to see, as well, the federal government finally - we were
fortunate in the court case to win the decision regarding the Sub-Laurentian,
and it is very pleasing now to see that the federal government has finally come
to its senses in a timely fashion and done the conversion on the leases to
exploration permits, because it is only if we ever get exploration that we can
ever count upon discoveries, and we need the discoveries to get to production,
which gets us to supply and gets us to employment and gets us to money. The
issue of how much money, and whether we will get our fair share of the monies, I
will leave for another day; because the revenue sharing and the benefits that we
receive, as a Province, everyone is well aware, we do not feel we get our fair
share and that is certainly a bigger issue for another day, but the conference
itself is very pleasing to see.
We have done very well in growing this industry from non-existence to an
infancy stage to now early childhood, shall we say, because it has not seen
anywhere near where it can potentially go. St. John's has benefitted, and the
Avalon. We see Marystown and the Burin Peninsula benefit, and hopefully with the
Sub-Laurentian we can see Southern and Western Newfoundland benefit because it
is geographically positioned perfectly to do just that.
I commend the minister on his attendance there. Continue to fly our flag.
Continue to meet these people and take advantage of every opportunity that we
see in this industry for this Province and our people.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We were certainly glad to hear of the participation of this Province and the
strong delegation in Houston. We do have a maturing oil industry and we have
proven that Newfoundland and Labrador companies and individuals can participate
fully in the development of this important industry in Newfoundland and
Labrador.
I just want to comment, though, on the suggestion by the minister that by the
year 2006, Newfoundland and Labrador offshore will be producing one-half of
Canada's light crude requirements. I would be very much happier, Mr. Speaker,
if he could also say that in the year 2006 we would receive as much revenue, as
a Province, as the provinces that produce the other half receive from their
production of Canadian light crude. We have a significant problem, Mr. Speaker.
We need to review our licensing arrangements and we need to review our
royalties. We have discovered, Mr. Speaker, that the principle beneficiary of
our oil resources is not the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, nor is it the
We have got to look, Mr. Speaker, to find ways of ensuring that we, in fact,
as the owners of the resource, do become the principle beneficiary, because so
far we have already seen, as of May 2003, a year ago, that Hibernia has already
extracted 40 per cent of the proven reserves, and Terra Nova has already
extracted 25 per cent of -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's time has expired.
MR. HARRIS: For a few seconds?
MR. SPEAKER: By leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.
MR. HARRIS: The Terra Nova project has also extracted 25 per cent of the
proven reserves that they have. We hope they will find more and this will
continue on.
We are in a serious circumstance, Mr. Speaker, and we really ought to be
having a strategy that is going to be led by this government and going to be
serious and meaningful in terms of putting ourselves in the position that the
other producing provinces are in.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform the House of a very important event
taking place in our Province this week. This week the nursing profession is
celebrating National Nursing Week.
Mr. Speaker, National Nursing Week recognizes the important role nurses
provide to our health and community services system. This week also allows the
profession an opportunity to draw attention to its members' significant
contributions to health care and the health and well-being of Newfoundlanders
and Labradorians.
The theme for this special week is Nursing: Knowledge and Commitment at Work.
Today, registered nurses and nurse practitioners are constantly challenged to
seek new knowledge to deal with increasingly complex health issues and the
changing nature of their work environments. Despite these challenges nurses are
committed to ensuring that their patients and clients receive high quality care.
The theme is an excellent description of those in the nursing profession here in
Newfoundland and Labrador.
The Association of Registered Nurses of Newfoundland and Labrador has over
6,000 members, Mr. Speaker. As the Minister of Health and Community Services, I
would like to point out that these members have been instrumental in setting the
highest standards in promoting good nursing practices, education, as well as
advocating for quality health care for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.
I would also like to inform the House today that this year the Association of
Registered Nurses of Newfoundland and Labrador is proud to be celebrating their
50 th Anniversary of making a difference in the regulation of nursing
in our public's interest. For fifty years, members of the Association have
made tremendous contributions to the lives of individuals, families and
communities in our Province. Nurses truly are valued by us all.
Mr. Speaker, the Association also has a long history of working with
government in providing advice in policy, as well as partnering in reshaping our
health system to ensure it remains consistent with the changing needs of the
population over the years. In recent years this has included the promotion of
Primary Health Care Renewal, as well as moving nursing education into the
university and participating in the Province's development of a new Mental
Health Strategy.
Mr. Speaker, this government continues to recognize the integral role nurses
play in our health and community services system. In recognition of the
invaluable services they provide, most recently in Budget 2004, government
announced the creation of a chief nursing position within the Department of
Health and Community Services. This position will help in addressing nursing
issues, including primary health care renewal, scope of practice and recruitment
and retention. The department is working in partnership with the nursing
community to fill the position.
Mr. Speaker, I am sure all Members of the House of Assembly would like to
join me today in congratulating the Association of Registered Nurses of
Newfoundland and Labrador as we recognize National Nursing Week and on the event
of their 50 th Anniversary. On behalf of the Government of
Newfoundland and Labrador, I would like to thank the Association of Registered
Nurses of Newfoundland and Labrador and the Newfoundland and Labrador Nurses
Union for playing such a formidable and invaluable role in the health care of
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am pleased to join with the minister today and members of this House in
congratulating the Association of Registered Nurses of Newfoundland and Labrador
as they recognize their National Nursing Week and also on the event of their 50 th
Anniversary.
Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister, that the real test of how much this
government appreciates nurses and the work they do will certainly come when they
start negotiating the new collective agreement with nurses. I ask that they show
real dignity and real respect for the profession at that time and for those who
work in the nursing field by honouring a very open and a very fair collective
agreement process, and not see what we have just seen with the public sector
strike which was provoked by the government unnecessarily, and at the end of the
day, left only workers demoralized and with regressive benefits.
Mr. Speaker, I have to say that nurses and nurse practitioners are the main
level of primary care for health in most rural areas of this Province,
especially in isolated regions. Mr. Speaker, the work that they do have proven
to be invaluable in our health care system, especially in reaching out to those
in the most remote areas of our Province. I have to say that they need to be
commended and congratulated because it has been very tough times for nurses,
especially when it comes to recruiting and training personnel within the
Province. I hope that we can continue to see bonuses of recruitment and
retention provided to those in the profession -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's time has expired.
MS JONES: - to ensure that we have a good level of service all throughout
the Province.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We, too, would like to acknowledge the minister's statement and recognize
National Nursing Week in this Province and in this country.
Mr. Speaker, the theme, fifty years of making a difference, and we all know
the difference that nurses make in our lives, generally at a time when we are at
our lowest and weakest. There are many stories abound about the connection
between nursing and getting better quicker when we are in the hospital. Many
patients will tell lots of stories about the care they received from nurses and
from other people who are involved in the delivery of health care in our
Province.
Mr. Speaker, nurses and nurse practitioners are also involved in a lot of
things in our community, such as wellness programs, illness prevention programs
and all sorts of other things that we, as a population, need and rely on.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's time has expired.
MR. COLLINS: By leave to clue up, Mr. Speaker.
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. COLLINS: Again, Mr. Speaker, we do acknowledge National Nursing Week
and hope that they have a celebration which reflects the nature of the work and
the services that they provide to us.
Thank you.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions today are for the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and
Labrador Affairs.
Minister, the Premier today is leading a delegation at an international air
show in Berlin to promote the base at 5 Wing Goose Bay, a very vital issue for
the survival of Labrador, in particular, the Upper Lake Melville region.
Minister, recently a coalition consisting of local and interested people was
formed in the Goose Bay area to spearhead a drive to promote and fight for the
very survival of 5 Wing Goose Bay. Minister, today people in Labrador are
wondering why members, or a member, of such an important group was not asked to
be a part of this important mission?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and
Labrador Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As the member indicated, the Premier is leading a very important delegation
for important meetings in Europe this week on the future of 5 Wing Goose Bay and
the future of foreign military training in Goose Bay.
Mr. Speaker, I can only say to the Member for Torngat Mountains that there is
a representative from the workers at the Base in Goose Bay, Mr. Randy Ford, I
believe, the leader of the union local on the Base at 5 Wing Goose Bay. He is
part of the delegation. I am sure he will do an admirable job of representing
the views of the people in Goose Bay on this issue.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: On a supplementary, the hon. the Member for Torngat
Mountains.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
No one is going to question the presence of Mr. Ford on this mission. He is
very important to the Base in Goose Bay.
Minister, as you are aware, any new deals with foreign countries regarding 5
Wing Goose Bay will first have to be sanctioned, monitored and agreed to by the
federal government. Nobody or no one has worked harder for the stability and
renewal of 5 Wing Goose Bay than the MP for Labrador, Mr. Lawrence O'Brien.
Minister, can you tell the people of this Province, and in particular the
people of Labrador, why the MP for Labrador, Mr. O'Brien, was not invited to
attend such important meetings?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and
Labrador Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, this is a delegation led by the Premier of the Province. This is
a provincial delegation, as part of our commitment to 5 Wing Goose Bay. We have
indicated that we will, to the best of our ability, carry out lobbying efforts
and work with the federal government to identify new opportunities and continue
the presence of foreign military training in Goose Bay.
If the Member of Parliament for Labrador wants to be a part of any delegation
that we lead, I am sure, Mr. Speaker, he will be more than welcome. At this
point, I have no idea why he would or would not have attended. I can only say
that, from our perspective, there is a significant role for the federal
government in maintaining 5 Wing Goose Bay, and we believe that Mr. O'Brien
needs to lobby intensively his own colleagues in Ottawa, to make sure that they
continue their commitment to 5 Wing Goose Bay.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I guess the people of this Province are seeing again, obviously, from the
answers we are getting from the Minister Responsible for Labrador, that the
Premier did not consult with his Cabinet nor his caucus as to whom he should
include on such an important meeting.
Minister, each year we see less and less Canadian Forces personnel stationed
at 5 Wing Goose Bay. With a federal election in the very near future, and as the
Minister Responsible for Labrador Affairs, can you tell the people of Labrador
what commitment you have from the present federal government to maintain the
viability of the Base, and what assurances do you have to confirm the presence
of Canadian Forces personnel at 5 Wing Goose Bay in the future?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and
Labrador Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I can say to the Member for Torngat Mountains that the
commitment that we have from the federal government is the same commitment that
he has heard publicly by the Minister of National Defence, that the federal
government are committed to 5 Wing Goose Bay for the next couple of years. They
have indicated that their commitment is in the form of reducing the costs to our
foreign allies who train at 5 Wing Goose Bay in the next two-year period. Beyond
that, there is no commitment at this point. We hope that the federal government
will step up and ensure that their commitment is much more long term than that.
Mr. Speaker, the questions that the Member for Torngat Mountains is asking, I
hope that during the coming weeks and the coming months, during the federal
election, that he will pose those same questions to the Member of Parliament for
Labrador, Mr. Lawrence O'Brien.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
As we speak, there are at least 200 people on the Northern Peninsula who are
wondering if they are going to get work this year at their plant in New Ferolle,
but all that this minister has done so far is to inflame the situation
concerning the licence up there.
Last week, in The Telegram , this minister, in response to the owner of
the plant, Mr. Cliff Doyle, said, and I quote: If I have to, I will drag Mr.
Doyle's name through the mud.
Mr. Speaker, on Friday, the minister also stated in the same newspaper that
his officials are seeking a solution to the outstanding issue surrounding the
licence of this plant. I ask the minister: Can he update us today as to any
progress he is making on that issue?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and
Labrador Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
In the interview with The Telegram , I indicated that I would deal with
the facts, Mr. Speaker, and that I did not want to drag Mr. Doyle's name
through the mud; however, I did say that if the person involved insisted on
continuing with this in a public manner then I would have no choice but to say
exactly what the position of government was as it relates to outstanding debts
related to the New Ferolle operation. All I can say at this point is that we
have had discussions with the various parties. We have indicated that we would
entertain a proposal from them to deal with the outstanding debts to government
and the outstanding debts to the private judgement creditors. We have received
one proposal. We found it to be deficient, Mr. Speaker. We indicated that to the
parties verbally, and there is a -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the minister now to complete his answer quickly.
MR. TAYLOR: There will be a written submission to them officially
indicating that, and we will await another proposal from them.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I might add again that it was this minister who talked about dragging Mr.
Doyle's name through the mud, not anyone over here.
Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that Mr. Doyle is prepared to put a
repayment
schedule on the table to this minister with regard to the debt that he
owes the Province, but no one in his department, nor he, has spoken to Mr. Doyle
since last Monday, the day that he made the statement about dragging his name
through the mud.
I ask the minister: Why is he dragging his heels on this issue, especially
when it concerns 200 people in an area that is probably the most economically
depressed area in our Province? When are you going to do something? When are you
going to sit down with Mr. Doyle? When are you going to talk to the man and try
to resolve the issue, so that these 200 people can look at, at least this
summer, and know that they are going to have some employment?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and
Labrador Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we are eager to receive a proposal from Mr. Doyle. We have not
received anything from Mr. Doyle. We have received something from one of the
other parties who are involved here.
I will say this, Mr. Speaker, I will read from a letter back in May 7, 2003,
which says, "Officials with my Department have informed me that before the
loan guarantee payout you had indicated that there were plans to restructure the
financial affairs of James Doyle (Sr.) & Sons Limited, and new investors
were prepared to invest much needed capital into the Company. It seems that no
new investment ever materialized. Subsequent to the guaranteed payout in 1997,
Government has not taken action to enforce its security, thereby affording you
every opportunity to restructure the Company and deal with the debt due to the
Province."
That is one paragraph, and I could read much more (inaudible) -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the minister now to complete his answer.
MR. TAYLOR: - in a letter from Joan Marie Aylward, the then Minister of
Finance, to Mr. Doyle.
Mr. Speaker, we would be more than happy to receive a proposal from Mr.
Doyle. We are not looking for the $771,000 up front, but -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, we do want to see a viable realistic plan to
deal with this debt.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, in the past month here, I have been asking the minister short,
simple questions, and yet he speaks for five minutes and says absolutely
nothing. He has not spoken to Mr. Doyle since last Monday, when he besmirched
his character in the local papers here. Neither he nor his department have been
in touch with him for over a week, but I think the real reason, Mr. Speaker, is
the word that is coming out of St. Barbe District today, that the minister has
no concern, and he certainly does not want to get the plant open in New Ferolle,
because -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the member now to get to his question.
MR. REID: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the word on the Northern Peninsula today is that the minister
doesn't want to open the plant because he wants to transfer the crab license
from New Ferolle to St. Anthony.
I ask the minister: Is this true, and, if so, have you consulted with the
Member for St Barbe on this issue?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture and
Labrador Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As I said, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Doyle is well aware of what the issues are
surrounding the New Ferolle license. He is aware that there is a dispute over
control of ownership of the plant in New Ferolle, and there is a substantial
amount of money outstanding to the government and the private creditors.
As for the rumor, Mr. Speaker, that the member is perpetrating right now, I
have no desire to transfer any license from New Ferolle to St. Anthony. That,
Mr. Speaker, is why I established the Fishing Industry Licensing Board back on
February 4, so that politicians like me and him will not be able to interfere
politically with that anymore.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: It will be a decision based on a recommendation from the
licensing board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Right now, Mr. Speaker, I have no authority under the current
policy to transfer any license.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the minister talks about his arm's-length licensing board, but
the minister actually said himself that, that board will report to him, and he
doesn't have to live by that decision.
I ask the minister today to stand in this House and make a commitment that,
regardless of what happens in New Ferolle, that license will not be transferred
out of there.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture and
Labrador Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The dealings between New Ferolle and anybody are a matter of a private
business arrangement. At this point, Mr. Speaker, we have had no indication from
anybody that they want to transfer any license. Even if we did, we are not in a
position to be able to do it. I have no intentions of transferring either
license from New Ferolle to anywhere or from anywhere else to New Ferolle, Mr.
Speaker. When that comes up, somebody will have to deal with it, if it comes up.
Mr. Doyle, at this point, if the license were issued, would get the license,
unless there is an arrangement otherwise between Mr. Doyle and some other
company or some other operator, Mr. Speaker. At this point, anything would be
speculative and hypothetical, that the member is talking about, and I am not
going to deal with speculation, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Minister of Education.
Mr. Speaker, it is clear that education is not the priority of this
government. The first indication was a no-show Premier at the education debate
at Memorial University during the election. Then, in the first 100 days of this
government, they gutted the Department of Youth and Post-Secondary Education.
Now, in your slash and burn budget, you cut the College of the North Atlantic's
operating budget by $2 million. Last week, they responded by firing thirty-five
staff, scrapping programs and postponing new programs indefinitely.
Mr. Minister, are you at all concerned that your right-wing agenda will
result in a diminished educational system for our post-secondary students?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the hon. member for the question. I can assure the hon. member
opposite that we are committed to education in this Province at both levels, the
K to12 system and our post-secondary level.
I would like to read, in part, a portion of the release that was issued last
week by the College of the North Atlantic. It states, Mr. Speaker, "Faculty
layoffs are as a result of programs that are being suspended for the coming
academic year due to low interest and low enrollments by students. The removal
of these programs from the College's program plan is part of the regular
annual process of program review, which ensures college offerings remain
relevant and responsive to the ever-changing needs of students and
industry."
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the minister now to complete his answer, quickly.
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say to the hon. member, the Board of Regents of the College of the North
Atlantic has done an admirable job, yes, in responding to a request but at the
same time doing nothing different than they do each year in providing the
courses that are most relevant to the majority of students.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Grand
Falls-Buchans.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
This government got elected on the platform they had in their Blue Book as
being the absolute truth. Can anyone believe what you have in your Blue Book? It
is evident that you do not believe your own propaganda. Let me refresh your
memory. In this book, your Blue Book, you stated: the PC Party is committed to,
and I quote, "Cover increased operating costs of Memorial University and
the College of the North Atlantic, so they can freeze tuition fees, so they can
maintain the current level and quality of programs." Another broken promise
by your government. How can our post-secondary institutions continue to provide
high quality education to our students when you do not even see education as a
priority?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I can only repeat to the hon. member what I had said earlier, that this
government and this minister, and this government led by the hon. Premier, we
are committed to not only the K to 12 system in this Province but to the
post-secondary system. I thank the hon. member for, in part, answering my
question because we have maintained the integrity of the implementation of a
tuition freeze for all of our students, I say to the hon. member.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: And we are saying to the students in this Province,
whether it is at the university level or at our public college institutions,
that we respect their situation and we are doing what we can for them.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Grand
Falls-Buchans.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It appears that last week's announcement is just the tip of the iceberg
that is yet to come. You quoted something from the President of the College, so
I will quote something. Last week in her news release of May 7 and in her
interview in The Telegram , she said that the College "...will likely
become smaller and probably even more centralized."
It appears that it will only be a matter of time before campuses will start
closing, more teaching positions will be cut, more courses cancelled and more
services reduced. When will you live up to your Blue Book commitment and stop
gutting our education system, as you have been doing for the past seven months
since you got into government?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: I can say to the hon. member, Mr. Speaker, that again, I
want to assure the hon. member, and reassure the people of the Province, that we
have a full time and serious commitment to education in this Province at all
levels, whether it is the K to 12 level or the post-secondary level. I can give
the hon. member that assurance. We will stand by it, and every action that we
take will be proof positive of that fact.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is also for the Minister of Education.
The College of the North Atlantic, Mr. Speaker, in 1993 received a grant of
$87 million from the then government. By 2003 it was down to $52 million. Mr.
Speaker, this government appears to have continued the practice of gouging money
out of the College of the North Atlantic, started by the previous Liberal
government, and we are now down $37 million less than the College received in
Can this minister tell the House whether or not the days of the College of
the North Atlantic are numbered, as the President of the College feared in a
quote in The Telegram last Friday? Is that the plan of this government,
to continue to reduce the College of the North Atlantic and leave it open to
private college systems?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Again, I can give every guarantee and assurance to the hon. member opposite
that nothing is further from the truth. We are committed to public education in
this Province. Yes, the Board of Governors had a difficult task to perform last
week in response to what was being requested of them during the Budget process.
However, Mr. Speaker, I can give the hon. member every assurance that we are
committed to public education and what that means in its entirety.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to know from the minister where
that commitment is. He just read out some suggestion that this was all part of a
routine. In fact, Mr. Speaker, the college has cancelled or shelved two courses
that were scheduled for the Stephenville campus, one in film and video and the
other in cultural management. These are very important programs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I am getting significant interruptions from the other side. The floor belongs
to the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Obviously, Mr. Speaker, these programs need to be promoted
properly in order to get the kind of interest to develop these programs as well
as other programs that people are crying out for and waiting for years sometimes
to get into these programs. I would like to know where the evidence of his
government's commitment is to the College of the North Atlantic?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Perhaps the hon. member was not listening to the earlier set of questions and
the response. I would like to once again make reference to, in part, what was
said in the release last week by the Board of Governors. "Faculty layoffs
are as a result of programs that are being suspended for the coming academic
year due to low interest and low enrollments by students. The removal of these
programs from the college's program plan is part of the regular annual process
of program review, which ensures college offerings remain relevant and
responsive to the ever-changing needs of students and industry."
Mr. Speaker, again, what the college has demonstrated here is that it is
responding to the needs of students by looking closely at programs and making
sure that the courses and programs which are offered are best suited to the
needs of the students of Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
What the college is responding to is the budget moves of this government and
the previous government. Why is there such a dearth of programs available for
people who want to learn the trades and apprenticeship programs in this
Province, things that we need for our growing industry? Why is that a continuing
problem in this Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Again, what the college is doing and what it has stated last week is that it
is responding to the offerings, remaining relevant and responsive to the needs
of students and industry generally. Mr. Speaker, we have some seventeen campuses
of the College of the North Atlantic here in this Province and what has happened
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. OTTENHEIMER: And a difficult task, I acknowledge that. But the Board
of Regents has chosen, in some cases, one or two programs that it deemed perhaps
not appropriate to continue in view of the request that was made by this
government. All in all we have a post-secondary system, in particular a public
college system, which is second to none, is fully accountable and it meets the
needs and the demands of our students here in Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions are for the Minister of Health and Community Services.
The St. John's Health Care Corporation and the Health Boards Association
have both outlined concerns with the backlog of surgeries, diagnostic testing
and other clinical appointments that accumulated as a result of the public
service strike. The minister two weeks ago refused to address the problem
directly, instead she indicated that she would solicit proposals from the health
care sector. Can you tell me today, minister, what plans you have in place two
weeks later to deal with the problem?
MR. SPEAKER: he hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As I indicated to the House last week, I have gone out and asked the health
care boards to come in with a plan to indicate how they are going to address the
backlog. At this point in time, the boards, especially in relation to the St.
John's Health Care Board, is devising a plan in anticipation of discussions
with the department.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse
au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We have been through a four-week public sector strike. The minister has been
almost two weeks now and she is failing to address the problem, and it is to the
detriment of those people who are out there on those wait lists.
Tell me today, Minister: Will you allocate the necessary funding to cover
overtime and other expenses that are needed to increase the capability of the
health care system to meet the demands for heart surgeries, cancer surgeries,
and other tests and procedures?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As I have already indicated to the hon. member, I am waiting for the health
care boards to come in with a plan.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS E. MARSHALL: I would like to indicate to the hon. member that even
additional money does not always help to alleviate the problem, that there are
constraints in the system with regard to availability of equipment, time,
operating rooms, and things of that nature.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to ask the minister: What were the total savings in the health
care system during the strike, and will those dollars remain with the boards?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: As I have already indicated to the hon. member, I have
asked the boards to come back with their plan. I have also asked them to
identify savings as a result of the strike -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS E. MARSHALL: - and provide the information to me.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the members to my right if they would be helpful and permit the
minister to answer without significant interruptions.
The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Okay.
The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, last week the Minister of Government Services
indicated that she was waiting for Cabinet to approve her automobile insurance
legislation. Can the Minister of Government Services tell the House if Cabinet
has met, and when will her government quit accommodating insurance companies and
lawyers and introduce this legislation, and for once, just for once, do
something for the people of this Province?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS WHALEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It happened that the Cabinet met last weekend. I have the insurance reform
ready to be tabled in the House this session.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour
Grace.
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister that the Premier said
that it was going to be the week before Easter or the week shortly after. This
session is winding down and we still have not seen it. We have been receiving
telephone calls and e-mails from people every day, saying -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. SWEENEY: - they are still being mailed increases.
Mr. Speaker, it is easy to know that the Premier is out of town today; the
bleacher creatures are acting up.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. SWEENEY: When government announced their new reform package this
winter, Mr. Speaker, they announced a rate freeze.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the members to my left for their co-operation, to permit the Member for
Carbonear-Harbour Grace to continue his question.
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, when government announced their new reform
package this winter, they announced a rate freeze. Minister, why has your
inaction resulted in people facing further increases as we speak today?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I find it somewhat disingenuous of the Member
for Carbonear-Harbour Grace to get up and ask questions about when the
legislation is coming here, when will it be? - it is the third or fourth time -
when he knows, or he ought to know, that it was explained to the Opposition
House Leader, that they would have that legislation next week.
Now, my advice to the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace is that if he wants
to know anything about it, talk to the Opposition House Leader. The legislation
will be tabled next week. Until that time, you can continue asking the question
but you will get the exact same answer, I say to the Member for
Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, I do not wish to take any time because we only
have a minute left here, but just to clarify, the second question that the
Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace asked - maybe the Government House Leader
does not want the minister to stand and answer it. His answer and his
interjection right now have nothing to do with the second question that was
asked by the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace. Maybe he might be courteous
enough to allow the minister to answer the question that was actually asked. It
had nothing to do with his comments.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, it is obvious the game that is on here this
afternoon. We were told by the Premier a month ago that this was going to be
brought forward. People are still suffering from high rates.
Mr. Speaker, the same minister, a new topic. Mr. Speaker, a few weeks ago I
asked the Minister of Government Services about the status of the Petroleum
Products Pricing Commission. The commissioner finishes his contract in two weeks
and rumors are still floating that the office will close. The Premier has stated
that the office will remain in Grand Falls-Windsor. Will the minister now
confirm what the Premier has said, and inform the public if we will have the gas
price regulation in two weeks' time, Mr. Speaker?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, in the House a couple of weeks ago, I told the
hon. member that the government is committed to the Pricing Commission. I am in
the process right now of taking a restructuring of that particular Commission
and I will announce that shortly in the House.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: We have time for one quick supplementary.
The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
MR. SWEENEY: Can the minister confirm that the office will still stay in
Grand Falls, as the Premier spoke on earlier?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, I have no intention of moving the office out of
Grand Falls.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The time for Oral Questions has expired.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees
MR. SPEAKER: The Chair would like to present the Annual Report for the
Child and Youth Advocate for 2002-2003.
Notices of Motion
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
On behalf of the Member for Bay of Islands I would like to present this
Private Member's Motion:
WHEREAS the fiscal state of the Province has been misrepresented by the
provincial conservative government; and
WHEREAS this misrepresentation is political maneuvering on the part of
government to create a public mood that would enable them to implement their
right wing conservative agenda; and
WHEREAS arts and culture activities contribute to both the economic and
social life of this Province; and
WHEREAS the reputation of the art and the culture of this Province will be
severely damaged; and
WHEREAS we are in danger of losing valuable and world renowned curators and
staff; and
WHEREAS art currently owned by this Province is not properly stored and in
danger of being damaged; and
WHEREAS there is a fine arts program at Sir Wilfred Grenfell College
attracting students from all over North America; and
WHEREAS local artists used the Provincial Art Procurement Program as a major
advantage in promoting local art and helping local artists;
BE IT RESOLVED that this House of Assembly supports the opening of The Rooms
and the Corner Brook Exhibition Centre without delay, as well as a restoration
of funds to the provincial government's Art Procurement Program.
I present that on behalf of the Member for Bay of Islands.
I also give notice, Mr. Speaker, that with regard to Private Members' Day
on Wednesday, which is the Opposition side, we will be proceeding with the
motion earlier presented by the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune dealing with
ferry rates in the Province.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: A notion of motion, Mr. Speaker.
I give notice, and by leave, move that the following heads of expenditure be
referred to the Resource Committee: the Department of Business; the Department
of Environment and Conservation; the Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture,
and Labrador Affairs; the Department of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development;
the Department of Natural Resources; and the Department of Tourism, Culture and
Recreation.
Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, that the following heads of expenditure be referred
to the Social Services Committee: the Department of Education; Health and
Community Services; Justice; Municipal and Provincial Affairs; Human Resources,
Labour and Employment, the Status of Women, and the Newfoundland and Labrador
Housing Corporation.
Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, that the following heads of expenditure be referred
to the Government Services Committee: Finance; Government Services;
Transportation and Works, and Aboriginal Affairs; and the Public Service
Commission.
Mr. Speaker, I give further notice, and by leave, move that the following
committees be comprised of the following members. The Resource Committee: the
Member for Bonavista North, the Member for Trinity-Bay de Verde, the Member for
Windsor-Springdale, the Member for Gander, the Member for Twillingate &
Fogo, the Member for Grand Bank, the Member for the Bay of Islands.
Government Services Committee: the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's,
the Member for St. John's Centre, the Member for Terra Nova, the Member for
St. John's North, the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace, the Member for
Torngat Mountains, and the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.
For the Social Services Committee: The Member for Trinity North, the Member
for Humber Valley, the Member for Conception Bay South, the Member for
Burin-Placentia West, the Member for Port de Grave, the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse
au Clair, and the Member for Burgeo & LaPoile.
MR. SPEAKER: The Government House Leader is asking for leave to move
these motions now. Does the Government House Leader have leave to move these
motions now?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.
All those in favour of the motion relative to the Estimates Committee signify
by saying aye.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: Those against?
The motions are carried.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today in the House to present a petition on behalf of my constituents
and people of Labrador with regard to the Labrador Marine Services.
Mr. Speaker, the people in this area of the Province are not at all happy
with the decision that government has made to relocate the Labrador passenger
ferry to the region of Lewisporte. Mr. Speaker, the people in Labrador went out
to these consultations and made their views widely known to a consultant that
was hired by the government, paid by the government, to give them
recommendations on how the marine services should operate for Labrador.
The recommendation, Mr. Speaker, was this: that the Labrador passenger
service be based in the Cartwright-Goose Bay area to service that part of the
Province, not in the community of Lewisporte.
Mr. Speaker, people in Labrador are outraged at the fact that this minister
and this government could make a decision to move the Labrador ferry service to
Lewisporte at a cost of over $2 million a year. The original figures were at
$1.7 million, but now when you talk about basing the freight service at the
wishes of the north coast out of Lewisporte as well, we will see an increased
cost of $2.1 million on an annual basis to do this. Mr. Speaker, this is wrong
and the people of Labrador are not happy with it.
Mr. Speaker, the minister says that he had support in Labrador for his
decision. A week ago, I met, on May 1, with representatives from the Town
Councils of Happy Valley-Goose Bay, from Labrador City, from the Chamber of
Commerce in Labrador West, Central Labrador, Southern Labrador, the Labrador
Straits, and the zonal boards in all the regions of Labrador as well, and these
people were not at all happy with this decision. In fact, they were extremely
upset by the fact that $1.7 million more was going to be spent out of the
Labrador fund to give them lesser service this year than they had prior to 2003,
prior to 2002. There will be twenty-five less trips out of Happy Valley-Goose
Bay this year for people wanting to use that service.
Mr. Speaker, as a result of government basing the Labrador ferry in Labrador,
for the people of Labrador, we saw the numbers on that ferry service grow from a
little over 7,000 people to 12,000 people last year. That is a sign of the
demand for the service and the satisfaction with using that particular route.
What government has done here was absolutely wrong. They have betrayed the
people of Labrador. They have not listened to the leadership in Labrador, the
municipalities, the chambers, and the zonal boards, who have said to this
government: The Labrador ferry service should indeed be for the people of
Labrador.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's time has expired.
MS JONES: May I have leave, Mr. Speaker?
AN HON. MEMBER: No.
MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been denied.
MS JONES: Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise again to present a petition on behalf of the people of Southwestern
Newfoundland, not only in my District of Burgeo & LaPoile but also inclusive
of the Codroy Valley area, which is represented by the Member for Stephenville
East. I believe this is my eighth different petition on that issue, and they
keep coming in. I made a commitment that, as long as they keep coming, I would
honour them by presenting them in the House of Assembly here.
It deals with, I don't know if you would call it impending or possible
downgrading and decrease in hospital health services in the Port aux Basques
area, particularly in the Dr. Charles L. LeGrow Health Centre. This is, as I
say, my ninth petition here. The letters have been sent to the Premier's
office, sent to the Minister of Health and Community Services. There has been a
forum held, and they are very disappointed. The forum was held two Sunday nights
ago and again, for the second time running, the minister declined to be there,
the Member for Stephenville East declined to be there, and the government did
not even send out a member from the Department of Health and Community Services,
a deputy minister or an ADM.
MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible).
MR. PARSONS: Pardon?
I say to the Government House Leader, the meeting was held in Port aux
Basques. It had to be cancelled the first time because the government members
would not attend, so they rescheduled to accommodate government members. The
second time around - it was held two Sunday nights ago in Port aux Basques - the
minister again refused to attend, the Member for Stephenville East refused to
attend, and they would not even send someone from the Department of Health and
Community Services to at least respond to any questions that might have been
raised.
There are many facets to this issue of health care in Southwestern
Newfoundland, and one little piece, but a very important piece, that I was clued
into recently by a doctor there, Wendy Graham, who is a -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. PARSONS: - a young female doctor who came into town, and has her
family there, committed to stay in rural Newfoundland as her home there. What I
did not realize, as part of this downgrading of health care services, she
pointed out quite adequately and clearly, if you do not allow the services to be
done, such as obstetrical and surgical procedures, in places like Legrow,
doctors like her who have certain skill sets will not stay. They cannot stay
because they have to keep their skills up to a certain level in order to be
certified in those areas. So, I say to the minister, that is a very important
but vital piece of keeping services in these areas, because the doctors we do
have, we have enough problem as it is with recruiting and retention, and if we
not even going to allow them, once we get them into the areas, to do the basics
to maintain their credentials, we are going to lose them; not because they want
to leave, but because they would have to leave in order to keep their
professional status. They do not just want to be, you know, general
practitioners. They come to town and they have certain skill sets and they want
to keep them. So, I say to the minister, that is another facet of this whole
issue of rural health care that we have to be very cognizant of and aware of
when we make these decisions about what services get provided in what areas of
the Province.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Motion 1, to move that this House approves in general the budgetary policy of
the government.
I understand that the Leader of the Opposition has about eighteen or nineteen
minutes left from where he left off the other day. I am looking forward to every
second of his response. I have some notes made, Mr. Speaker, and I am looking
forward to an opportunity some time this afternoon, tonight or tomorrow, to
respond to some of the points he has made thus far.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
It is nineteen minutes that you have left, Sir.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am sure that the Government House Leader remembers that, even though I was
limited to an hour, of which I have about eighteen-and-a-half minutes left, he
said that if I wanted to go on a little while beyond that, he would gladly
accommodate me because he was delighted to hear and provide an opportunity for
anything and everything that I had to say.
Mr. Speaker, if I could, I could show him a copy of Hansard in which that is
actually quoted, but we may not need it today. I would admit that I have had
several opportunities now to speak fairly fully and broadly to the Budget, and I
will do that again for the next fifteen minutes or so, but again, before I do
that today, I would like to point out that in Question Period today we were
raising an issue - which, again, all of these issues are directly or indirectly
related to the Budget - about the future of 5 Wing Goose Bay in Labrador. Just a
few weeks ago, as a matter of fact, there was a private members' motion in
this Legislature, introduced by the government, and I believe introduced by the
Government House Leader, on behalf of the Premier, because he had given notice
of it and was not here, about seeking the support of the Legislature for the
future of 5 Wing Goose Bay.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. GRIMES: Done for the Member for Lake Melville.
We all supported it unanimously. As a matter of fact, the government even
agreed to an amendment that there be an all-party committee formed to show that
this was not a partisan issue in Newfoundland and Labrador, that it was not a
Progressive Conservative issue that was being opposed by the Liberals or the New
Democratic Party, but that it was supported by all members in this Legislature.
It was unanimous, because we all recognize it is important to the future of
Newfoundland and Labrador.
The disappointing
part in some of the questions today, Mr. Speaker, is the
fact that, with that kind of a motion and with that kind of support from the
Legislature, the Premier and the Minister for Labrador Affairs today, in
answering a question, says, well, he is gone off to Europe by himself, with the
Parliamentary Assistant from his own party, and with the representative of the
union from Happy Valley-Goose Bay, from 5 Wing Goose Bay itself, who a week or
so ago had retired or resigned and came back on the job to go over - which is
fine, and I am glad to see that he is there, but now it was not important to
have anyone there from the community at large, which is what the coalition
represented.
The Premier, leading a provincial delegation, decided - because again we are
back to the one-man show - he was going to take his own people only. It is not
an important symbol in his mind to show the people in Germany, to show the
people in Italy, if they go there - because the Italians also have a presence -
that the community at large, not only people whose jobs are directly impacted on
the Base but everybody in the community at large in the Upper Lake Melville
region, Happy Valley-Goose Bay, and all of Labrador, support the initiative. He
decided he did not want that voice as part of the delegation. Mr. Trimper, who
was the Chair of the coalition, was not invited.
He said that it was not important. It was a provincial initiative, he said,
so it was not important to have the federal MP who led the delegation, by the
way, and set up the meetings with Prime Minister Martin in Ottawa to start the
initiative. He initiated the meetings and the Premier agreed to go and lead the
provincial delegation, but now it was not important, said the minister today,
because the Premier did not think it was important to take the federal minister
along to encourage the Germans and others to continue a presence.
We also find out, of course, that more seriously again - and we will pursue
this further later in the week - more seriously again, while it is important for
just the Premier and a couple of very narrow interests to be gone to deal with
the Germans and maybe the Italians, that there is no commitment at all and no
extra work done on the Canadian presence beyond 2006. That, in fact, we have a
federal election that is going to be called any day now and we have the Premier,
with his own little group, does not require the broad-based community support.
He doesn't require the federal support, doesn't want it as part of his
delegation, but we are having the minister acknowledge that they don't really
have any commitment, on the eve of a federal election, from the federal
government itself and from Prime Minister Martin, that there is going to be a
Canadian presence, even, in Happy Valley-Goose Bay beyond the year 2006.
I think what we should have, clearly, as soon as we can have the Premier come
back - I hope he is going to pack his bags and head right straight to Ottawa and
maybe kiss and make up again with Mr. O'Brien, the federal MP, who he snubbed
this time. Maybe he will want the Coalition Leader, Mr. Trimper, to go to Ottawa
again. He was important enough to take the last time. Maybe the motion that they
voted for, that they have an all-party committee, to show that it is supported
by everybody in this Legislature, that he might think it is okay to take a
representative of the New Democratic Party, a member from Labrador, to show that
it is all of Labrador that supports this and thinks it is important, as well as
a member from the Liberal Party. It certainly wasn't seen to be important in
Germany and in Europe this week.
Mr. Speaker, that is not what I want to speak about today. I want to go back
to the issue itself and just put it in its context again. The Government House
Leader gave, again in calling the Orders of the Day, the notion that we are
debating a motion saying, they want the Legislature, they want us, to agree with
the budgetary policy of the government, which is the Budget as read. We don't
agree with it. We have said that and we have amended it to say that we, instead,
condemn the government for its failure to accurately represent the true picture,
and we have had a chance to speak to that.
I am now speaking to a further amendment that says: This House rejects the
government's Budget statement because it is predicated upon mythical and
inaccurate information. Mr. Speaker, that is what I want to spend my few minutes
talking about, my remaining few minutes today.
Again, I will begin by recommending to all members. and to anyone publicly
who has an interest, the speech made about this amendment by the Member for
Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi when we last addressed this issue a week or ten days ago.
I will cover some of the similar ground. It is the notion that, in fact, here we
have a Budget that we cannot support because it is predicated upon mythical and
inaccurate information.
Mr. Speaker, what we have - and we saw it in the debate last week about the
terrible back-to-work legislation, the completely unnecessary, crazy, idiotic,
back-to-work legislation, that the puppets all stood up and gave their prepared
speech and talked about the future and debt and indebtedness and children and
grandchildren and did what they were told and voted for it: no exceptions, none
at all. Mr. Speaker, completely unnecessary and completely unrelated to the
issue at the time, in which the people were already back to work and, in fact,
they had already achieved a two-year wage freeze by agreement from the unions.
There was only a little bit of disagreement over a sick leave issue which is
going to save no money for this government in this term of office at all, which
is likely to be the only term of office that they are going to get and be
endorsed by the people of the Province. They voted for something that had no
impact at all, because they believed a statement, by the way, that has only been
made in the Province and only verified from two sources, verified by the Premier
and verified by Mini-Me, the Minister of Finance. Those are the only two, and
their statements have been: We are drowning in debt. We can't pass this on to
our children and grandchildren. That is their message.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the Leader of the Opposition if he could refrain himself from using
language that is intended to insult members and to take away from the integrity
of members and the integrity of the House. We are enjoying his speech. If he
could co-operate in that regard, we would all appreciate it.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The phrases that I use are common phrases in the public domain with about
250,000 hits out in cyberspace, and everybody knows who I am talking about. The
member opposite does not take any offence to it because he knows it is true. As
a matter of fact, when I talked to him about it over the fence the other day he
was getting quite a kick out of it; the fact that he now has a well-known new
moniker in Newfoundland and Labrador that will stick with him for the rest of
his life.
MR. SULLIVAN: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been raised by the Minister of Finance
and President of Treasury Board.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I just want to indicate that what he has indicated is absolutely false. I
have never spoken to him then, and I think this House has stood on the integrity
of telling the truth. It is absolutely false what he has said. I will ask him to
withdraw it because it is not true. I do not like falsehoods being perpetrated
in this House, especially when they are directed to me, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair cannot determine whether statements made outside the House are true
or false, but I ask the Leader of the Opposition if he would, again, refrain
from comments. They may be common in many other places but that does not mean
they are parliamentary. Therefore, I would ask the hon. member if he could
refrain from using comments that are derogatory and do not add anything to the
integrity of the parliamentary process.
The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I did not realize that the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board was after getting so sensitive in his years as he continues on. Obviously,
he does not like the truth too much because this Opposition has sanctioned him,
in our own way, by refusing to listen to him because of the fact that we can't
believe what he says.
Let me make the point again, Mr. Speaker. The source about drowning in debt
and the source about saying we have alarming correspondence from the bonding
rating agencies has only been put in the public record in Newfoundland and
Labrador by two people, by the Premier of the Province and by the Minister of
Finance and the President of Treasury Board. Unlike other phrases that have been
put into the public domain that they dismiss because they do not fit the myth
and they do not fit the debate we are having today about the fact that the
Budget is predicated upon mythical and inaccurate information. The inaccurate
information, Mr. Speaker, comes from these two political sources because it
suits their particular agenda, but it is not supported by anybody else. As a
matter of fact, let me explore it further.
The myth is completely exposed and shown to be exactly that - if you go to
credible sources like the bond rating agencies themselves, such as Moody's and
the Dominion Bond Rating Service. In fact, their statements, which are in these
documents that were provided to this new government before they decided to go
and get a brand new one because they did not like what these said. These
particular statements were provided to this particular government after the
election. The Dominion Bond Rating Service confirmed, on October 29 - which is
after the election last year - the credit ratings of the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador and indicated that the trends remain stable. Now,
unlike the myth, which is we are drowning in debt - which is the statement that
has only been said by the Premier and the Finance Minister. The statement about
debt says this: total debt, as measured by the Dominion Bond Rating Service,
rose to $10.3 billion. However, the debt, the GDP ratio dropped 7.9 per cent to
64.3 per cent - and this is very telling, Mr. Speaker. The debt, the GDP ratio,
which is your ability to pay for it, dropped to its lowest level in at least two
decades.
by saying: Yes, the debt went up. It is like somebody deciding to buy a bigger,
newer and more expensive house. That is all that the Premier and the Finance
Minister have said: You have a more expensive house and you owe a bit more
money. They left out the other part that your ability to pay for it is better
than it has been in the last twenty years. You have more money. You have more
than enough money coming in to pay for your new, bigger house and have some
money left over as well. Now, that is the part they conveniently leave out
because it does not fit the myth and it does not fit the inaccurate information
that they have been feeding, in a frenzied fashion, to the people of
Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Speaker, ever since January 5 when that infamous
speech was made that led down the road to the strike that just finished and so
on. So you have those particular issues.
It is true, Mr. Speaker. I believe there is a well-known saying that you can
actually deceive people more effectively with the truth than you can with a lie.
You can actually deceive people and lead them in a certain direction if there is
a kernel of truth in what you are saying, and that is what we have here. The
part that was said is true. Yes, we bought a more expensive house and we owe a
bigger mortgage but the part that is left out is equally true, but it was not
even mentioned. Members opposite did not even hear it and do not want to hear it
today because they want to sit comfortably in their skins, sit comfortably in
their seats, stand up with their prepared speeches like last week and say: Oh, I
cannot pass that debt along to my grandchildren. What they forget and what they
want to leave out is the part that you have a greater ability to pay for the new
house than you have had in the last twenty years. The circumstance in the
Province has improved remarkably.
That is very, very telling, Mr. Speaker, because those are the kinds of
things that the government deliberately left out. Let me give you a few
examples. These are the reports given to this government - this government.
Again, an analysis from Moody's Investment Services, one of the three
recognized bond rating agencies, net direct and guaranteed debt as a per cent of
GDP, in 1999 was 49.5 per cent. They say we are drowning in debt and the debt
has gone up, but guess what it is now? It was 49.5 per cent of the Gross
Domestic Product, which is all the monies generated in the Province. Guess what
it is going to be this year? It is worse, according to you guys, right? We are
drowning in debt now, right? It has to be worse. It was 49.5 per cent five years
ago. Guess what Moody's says it is going to be this year? Thirty-nine point
five per cent, Mr. Speaker. The first time they heard it. The first time the
Opposition heard it. The first time a lot of people in Newfoundland and Labrador
have heard it, because the government has built the whole Budget exercise
predicated on a myth that we are going into a downward spiral, that we cannot
pay our way, things are getting worse, we are drowning in debt, and Moody's
itself, which is one of the bond rating agencies that we were supposed to have
this alarming correspondence from, the correspondence says: Your ability to pay
- you used to have debt at 49 per cent five years ago. It has not gone up to 50
per cent or 55 per cent or 60 per cent, which is what the Premier would like you
to believe, which is what the Finance Minister would like you to believe. It has
actually gone down ten full percentage points, and ten points out of fifty, by
the way, is a 20 per cent improvement.
To use the mortgage analysis, it means: Can you buy a bigger house?
Absolutely. Do you have a slightly bigger mortgage? Absolutely. Do you have the
ability to pay for your new mortgage? Guaranteed. Not only that, you are 20 per
cent better off, in terms of your ability to pay for the new house. You have
more money left over to pay for your new house than you had left over when you
were paying for your old house five years ago because the circumstance in the
Province is that much better.
Mr. Speaker, unfortunately that is what happened in this whole Budget
exercise: The government perpetrated a myth on the people of the Province, and
they continue to do so.
The other part, Mr. Speaker, is drowning in debt. Remember the infamous
saying of the January 5 television address? The Premier saying - he refused to
answer in the House. I have asked him myself at least ten times. He refuses to
answer the question. He puts the Minister of Finance up to answer the question.
He will not answer it himself. He went on television and said: I have to spend
the first billion dollars to the bank to pay the interest on the debt, and he
said it is 25 per cent of all the money we have. I have to give it to the bank.
No greater mistruth' has ever been told about paying interest to the
bank. The actual fact, again, from the bond rating agency - and the line is:
Total interest expense. Total interest expense, the money sent to the bank. It
was never 25 per cent. It was not then and it is not now. In 1999, it was 15.3
per cent. The Premier wants us to believe it is 25 per cent, and today it is
down to 13.7 per cent, and that is the information that this government had
before they went through the exercise of going out and fabricating the infamous
PricewaterhouseCoopers report, and all those kinds of issues, to try to scare
the daylights out of people, to make us think the sky was falling, and all those
types of things. Mr. Speaker, the myth has been exposed.
A couple of other things, and I will do this fairly quickly because I am
running out of time and I do appreciate the opportunities I have had. The
Government House Leader, when he addressed this the last time, talked about the
Hydro debt, because when they talk about debt they want to talk about all the
debt: the direct government debt, which is only $6.9 billion, the debt that is
in Crown corporations, the debt that is in the school boards, the debt that is
in the Municipal Financing Corporation, the debt that is in the hospital boards,
the debt that is in Hydro.
Hydro, Mr. Speaker, remains self-supporting. The Government House Leader got
up the last time and said: The Hydro debt is there and it is a problem because
it is guaranteed by the Province.
The statement right in Moody's says this - and it is worth reading - the
self-supporting nature of Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro's debt mitigates any
concern that the Province needs to have by virtue of guaranteeing it -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's time has expired.
MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?
MR. GRIMES: Just for a second to finish up, if I could, Mr. Speaker?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Does the member have leave?
MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been denied.
MR. GRIMES: Leave has been denied by the Government House Leader, even
though he promised me in Hansard that I could speak. Today he has changed his
mind, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.
MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I want to say a few words on this amendment put forth by the
Opposition.
Mr. Speaker, I find it quite amusing that the Leader of the Opposition can
stand in his place each day and go on and talk about mythical budgets and
mythical numbers. Over the years, when we were on that side of the House of
Assembly, how often did I stand up and question their Budgets based on their
information put forward? They now, themselves, will admit that they did not
bring down a balanced Budget year after year. One year they came close, and we
now know that was not a balanced Budget at that point in time either, when you
look at the true figures of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.
We have a member on the opposite side of the House who likes to talk about
mythical numbers, when in reality the best person in this House of Assembly for
using mythical numbers has been proven over the years to be the Leader of the
Opposition himself. He can get up and he can twist figures right, left and
center, Mr. Speaker.
Another thing, he was over there - and he cannot get on his feet, Mr.
Speaker. I saw one other member in this House of Assembly - I will not name him,
he is not here now - who could not get on his feet without insulting someone. He
is a pro at name calling, Mr. Speaker, and we saw it here again today when he
was on his feet. We cannot have members in the House twisting facts and figures
all the time to their own benefit.
Mr. Speaker, we brought down a Budget this year. Yes, some will say that it
was a difficult Budget, and I would agree with that, Mr. Speaker, and we have
good reason. So, the question has to be asked: Why would a government bring down
a Budget of this nature, where we had to cut out of the Budget $240 million?
Each department was asked to review their programs and see if they could have a
10 per cent saving. I found it in the Department of Municipal and Provincial
Affairs. Other departments could not come up with it, and some came up with a
bit more, but we tried to be reasonable, to try to counter the road that we were
going down for the past fifteen, twenty, twenty-five years.
Members on the other side of the House will stand in their place day after
day and condemn this Budget, Mr. Speaker. They have a job to do, I suppose. That
is what they say, they have a job to do, as the Opposition, but they should
basically sit back and take a dose of reality themselves and say: Why are we in
the position that we are finding ourselves in the Province of Newfoundland and
Labrador today?
Mr. Speaker, as I said, previous Budgets were not balanced. We have a Budget
now, this year, that is going to be some $840 million. When you look at the
overall picture, the accrual method of budgeting, we are going to be $840
million in debt, based on this year alone.
Mr. Speaker, that is a lot of money. We do not like to have to do what we
have done this year, but there is some good news also, Mr. Speaker. Already we
have people in the public service, since we formed the government on November 6
of this year, who were in temporary positions year after year after year, and we
are trying to make those people permanent. We have gone a long ways down that
road.
Mr. Speaker, we want to protect the future of the Province of Newfoundland
and Labrador. The only way that we can do that, of course, is to basically get
our financial house in order. We have taken steps along that route, Mr. Speaker,
but it has to be a two-pronged process. We have to get our financial house in
order and we have to grow the economy.
As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, we saw in the paper this past weekend, in
papers across the Province, I would imagine, an advertisement for a deputy
minister and other people for the Business Secretariat, that the Premier of the
Province is going to head up himself. The reason for that, of course, is to try
to grow the economy and try to support small- and medium-sized businesses in the
Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. How do we do that?
Mr. Speaker, I have had calls from people recently and they were trying to
compare the Budget and saying: How come it is just the ordinary man who has been
hit this time in the Budget? Why aren't businesses being hit harder?
I questioned that myself during the debate with the Cabinet and the different
departments, looking at trying to prepare the Budget. Basically, the taxes in
the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador are fairly heavy. We basically fall in
the middle, Mr. Speaker, we basically fall in the middle, when you compare the
ten provinces.
MR. COLLINS: Not corporate taxes.
MR. J. BYRNE: The member opposite, the Member for Labrador West, says it
is not corporate taxes though. He is right. Then again, I would say to the
member opposite, when you look at the businesses in Newfoundland and Labrador we
have a payroll tax that was brought in by the previous Administration many years
ago and basically it was a tax on jobs. If you created jobs in the Province you
were taxed.
At that time, when they brought it in, if you had a payroll of over $300,000
you had to pay a percentage on that. I cannot remember at the time - it has been
decreasing since - when we fought long and hard as Opposition members to try and
get rid of the payroll tax because it was a tax on jobs in the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador. When you look at the overall picture and take
everything into consideration, and you are trying to grow the economy, Mr.
Speaker, I suppose people in the private industry could say - not in industry
but individuals out there could say: Well, maybe the businesses should be hit a
bit harder.
Again, the best living a person could have, I suppose, is to have a job in
Newfoundland and Labrador. Private industry creates jobs and, in turn, pay taxes
to pay for the services that we all receive in health care in the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. J. BYRNE: I missed that comment, I say to the member opposite.
There is some good news in this Budget, Mr. Speaker. For example, this is
one: This year housing starts are estimated to be 2,600 units - new housing in
Newfoundland and Labrador. It was only the other day I heard an announcement
that this is now up to 3,000. So that, in itself, will create jobs, pay payroll
taxes, income taxes. These types of things will help generate revenues to pay
for the services that we so desperately need in the Province of Newfoundland and
Labrador.
It says: Capital investment is expected to increase 10.5 per cent to almost
$4.2 billion, the highest level ever. Mr. Speaker, that is all good news. This
is even better when we get our financial house in order.
As I said the other day in the House of Assembly, if we could take that 25
per cent of every dollar that is going to pay the debt of the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador - and the Leader of the Opposition was just on his
feet a little while ago referring to that. He was saying, that is not quite
right. I cannot remember the figure he used - 17 per cent or 18 per cent. That
is strictly for the debt itself or the interest, Mr. Speaker, but when you look
at the overall debt at the health care boards, the school boards, different
organizations, Crown corporations, it is up around twenty-five cents on every
dollar that we pay as a Province to retire our debt. Too much! It is not
sustainable and we cannot continue down that road.
As I said before, we inherited a financial mess in the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador, and people out there are starting to realize this.
Members on the other side of the House themselves realize this. The Leader of
the Opposition, himself, said a few weeks ago that we are in a financial mess
and it has to be straightened out. Now, when we have people like the Leader of
the Opposition standing here and saying that - but when he stands on his feet in
the House of Assembly and questions us and gives his speeches, he says something
completely different. Why? Why would he be at that, other than for political
reasons alone? That is all it is about.
As I said earlier, the Opposition have a job to do, so be it. We will live
with that. We are all big boys and girls in here in the House of Assembly, Mr.
Speaker, but at least when they get on their feet in the House of Assembly that
they try to show some integrity and be forthright, be honest and try to agree
with what we are trying to do. I can see them wanting to point out any flaws,
errors or omissions and whatever in here that we make, as a government, that is
their job. Really, what we should be doing, and I have said this many times - I
said it at the caucus table, I said it at the Cabinet table, I said it in
public. What we need to be doing, as the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador,
we need the federal government, the provincial government, the municipal
governments, Mr. Speaker, we need industry, we need all private-public sectors
out there to come together and come up with some sort of a plan to put this
House back on track; the financial house back on track in the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador. I do not think that is being unreasonable.
We have a lot of services to give to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador
and that is what government is all about, to provide services; education. Health
care is a major one, Mr. Speaker, and if we do not have the wherewithal to do it
- as I said the other day, out of every dollar that we collect in revenue we
have twenty-three cents to go to services. Now, twenty-three cents, when you
look at health care - aside from the salaries and benefits - twenty-three cents
of every dollar has to go to services. We have health care - we have all the
supplies which have to supply the hospitals within the Province of Newfoundland
and Labrador; costs, transportation costs.
Transportation itself, in the Department of Transportation and Works we have
the ferry systems operating in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. We
have snow clearing, just to purchase - can you imagine, Mr. Speaker, what it
costs in the run of a year to supply fuel for all the vehicles in the Department
of Transportation and Works for say, snow clearing and the ferries themselves?
So, twenty-three cents on every dollar for all of these services is not a lot of
money.
Again, I want to get back to why we find ourselves in a situation to bring
down a Budget that we just recently brought down. Back in the early 1990s former
Premier Clyde Wells brought down a pretty hard Budget at that time too, Mr.
Speaker, and he laid off 3,000 people; public sector workers went out the door
just before Christmas. Three thousand laid off, not through attrition like we
are planning on doing. Now, members on the opposite side will stand and say: Oh,
yes, you are having layoffs. Yes, I agree, Mr. Speaker, there are some layoffs
but it is not amounting to 3,000 in one-fell swoop. In the hundreds, but again,
through attrition. By the way, Mr. Speaker, many of these people are - we have a
plan in place to try and bring these people back into the system when we have
attrition and have people going out the door. We will try and get them back in.
So they will have priority - be on a priority list to get back into the system.
It is not something that the previous Administration did.
When you sit back and size it all up, when you look at the debt of the
Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, $11.5 billion for just over 500,000
people. Too much, Mr. Speaker! It is unsustainable. That debt, by the way - and
I will say it again because I think people need to hear this, especially people
on the other side. They need to hear that this $11 billion debt for 500,000
people doubled from the mid-1990s to now. So, from 1949 to the mid-1990s, early
to mid-1990s, it was $5.5 billion, and right now it is $11 billion. From 1999 to
now it was increased by $2.7 billion. Can anyone fathom how much money that is?
I cannot, Mr. Speaker. On each man, woman and child in this Province, the debt
on each individual is insurmountable and we have to get it under control. The
only way we can do that is to go down the road that we are going down at this
point in time.
We want to help the people of Newfoundland and Labrador in the long term. It
is easy, I say to you, to stand in this House of Assembly and just dole out the
cash and say: Let that problem build and we will put it off until another day
for someone else to handle.
It would be pretty easy, pretty easy for us to do. I remember last month,
during the debate on Bill 18, I got a few e-mails from people saying: Jack, have
some backbone. Stand up and show some spine. Speak up and be against this Bill
Mr. Speaker, sometimes it takes more guts to stand in this House of Assembly
and do what is hard to do. You do not like to do it, but you have no choice in
it. Again, every time someone on the other side of the House stands and says:
Members on the other side of the House are doing something that does not need to
be done - the Leader of the Opposition is very good at it. Then again, I think
that is like closing your eyes to something that is gory, getting worse by the
day, and leaving it for someone else to deal with. It is not the right attitude,
Mr. Speaker.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. J. BYRNE: Pardon?
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. J. BYRNE: As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, the Member for
Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair was on her feet the other day and this is what she
said. This was the other day. She was on her feet and we were talking about the
$11 billion debt we had. We were talking about the deficit this year, of over
$800 million, and last year it was over $900 million. This is the comment, now.
She said: So, we owe a few dollars. So, we owe a few dollars. Also, she said:
And we have somewhat of a deficit.
Mr. Speaker, that hon. member was a former minister in the previous
Administration. We owe a few dollars. Eleven billion dollars. Is it any wonder
that we are - I should not say we - that the Province, is in the mess that it is
in today? It was contributed significantly to, by the previous Administration.
They are up there every day criticizing us, and we are here six months - six
months - trying to put our fiscal house in order. They were there for fifteen
years, and what did they do? I will tell you some of the things they did. For
example, just before the last election, six months before our contract had to be
renewed, they awarded the ferry contract in Labrador, across The Straits up
there, somewhere of $16 million to $20 million, six months prior, to a
well-known Liberal - not going to tender or anything of that nature. Don't go
and do that. No, no, we cannot be at that. We have to take care of our buddies.
That is what they did, Mr. Speaker, before the last election, six months before
that.
Also, some of the reasons why we are in the situation that we are in today,
and the debt that we owe, and the irresponsibility of the previous
Administration, can anybody remember when the previous Premier, Mr. Tobin, had a
news conference in Labrador announcing the Lower Churchill deal with Mr.
Bouchard, the then Premier of Quebec? One million dollars on a news conference
in Labrador.
AN HON. MEMBER: It was $1.45 million overall.
MR. J. BYRNE: I stand corrected. It was $1.4 million on a news conference
and the members on the opposite side are disappointed because they were not
invited. Mr. Speaker, that is the attitude that we had to deal with. That was
one.
Can anybody remember, Mr. Speaker, before the last election - and they tried
to make an issue of this here last week in the House of Assembly - the previous
Administration spending $350,000 on a good news campaign, saying, good things
are happening in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador? Now, $350,000, from
my perspective, that should have been spent in an election campaign, not the
taxpayers' dollars - spent to say how good things were in Newfoundland and
Labrador. We see today how good things are in Newfoundland and Labrador. They
are improving, Mr. Speaker. They will improve. I have no doubt about that, that
things will improve in this Province, but it is because of the fiscal
responsibility of the Administration that is in power today in Newfoundland and
Labrador.
Other things that have happened, Mr. Speaker, and we have said over and over
again, the Trans City deal, something like $20 million over a number of years
given to their buddies to build a few hospitals. By the way, the contract was
awarded, taken back, and they were sued - this government was sued - and they
had to pay out $4 million, I believe it was, to settle a court case when they
were being sued for tearing up the contract that they had, completely ignoring
the Public Tender Act altogether. The list goes on and on and on.
Again, Atlantic Leasing, where we had the Murray Premises down there that was
leased out, again showing irresponsibility on behalf of the previous
Administration. We wonder why the former Minister of Fisheries and the Member
for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, is saying that we owe a few dollars and we
have somewhat of a deficit when they are talking $11 billion, actually $11.5
billion, Mr. Speaker. I think we need to get our fiscal house in order, which we
are trying to do.
Mr. Speaker, I can go on and on. The members on the other side of the House
are getting a bit frustrated with hearing the truth. As I said, Mr. Speaker,
oftentimes the truth hurts and they realize that we, as an Administration, will
continue to do what we believe and feel in our hearts is right for the people of
Newfoundland and Labrador. We want to, in the long term, have the other
provinces look at Newfoundland and Labrador and say to the rest of the country,
and internationally: Look what Newfoundland did.
Mr. Speaker, we can go on here. The federal government has to play a major
role in the turn around of this Province. I want to talk about the Atlantic
Accord and the mistreatment of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador with the
Atlantic Accord. That was put in place for the offshore, and Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians, Mr. Speaker, were supposed to be the primary recipients of the
offshore. That is not happening today. The Premier has taken that on himself, to
try and negotiate something with Ottawa. We have an upcoming election and maybe
it would be a good time for members on both sides of the House, I say to the
Opposition House Leader - now would be a good time for the three groups to get
together and try to put some pressure on Ottawa in this upcoming election, and
say: Listen, it is time to treat us fairly. It is time to sit down and treat
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians as an equal partner in Canada with the other
provinces, not to completely take, take and take.
Now, some people would say - and I have talked to lots of people on the
mainland, Mr. Speaker, over the years and they feel that we are a charitable
group down here, that they have to give, give, give to us all the time. When you
sit down and size it all up and look at what we contribute, fiscally, socially,
economically or whatever, to the Country of Canada, I think it is time now that
we all come together and do something to benefit the people of the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, I notice my time is pretty well up. I am sure I will have lots
of time to speak in the future on the Budget. I will take my place. I am sure
someone on the other side will want to respond.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. PARSONS: Thank you very much.
I don't know if I will require the full twenty minutes or not. I appreciate
an opportunity to speak to the sub-amendment to the Budget today.
I was very interested in some of the comments made by the hon. the Minister
of Municipal Affairs; somewhat all over the place, I guess, as one tends to do
in this Chamber from time to time. That is understandable. I really took note of
some of his comments about living in the past and regurgitating some of the
history of the past administrations and so on. I guess, that is fair ball from a
new administration. That is what we have to expect, a reference to the past from
time to time, because they have no record themselves to speak of, to date. They
have only been here seven months or so, and if you were to listen to the teacher
who I referred to in my earlier speech, who was grading their first semester
report, they haven't done too well. I don't believe they got either passing
grade on any courses they have done yet. So I understand why he, at this point,
still has to keep talking about past events.
There is also an old saying that I learned quite early on in this House: Keep
your words very soft and very sweet because you never know when you may have to
eat them. I learned that lesson over and over, so I will try to keep my words
soft and sweet because I am prone to eating mine from time to time as well, as
most of us are here in this hon. Chamber.
The last day I started on the Budget, I said I was going to take a four-year
report, albeit we had twenty minutes, and I stated the process of explaining
that we had about four years. It works out to about eight semesters, and we have
about one semester completed by this government to date. My intention was to
grade them after each semester and see, at the end of the day - I am only one
person judging, of course. The electorate of Newfoundland and Labrador will, at
the end of those eight semesters, cast the deciding report card and decide if
this group have or have not passed.
I reviewed some of the things that have been done to date on the Budget, on a
general overview type of process, and gave the government some marks, shall we
say, on some of the courses they have taken to date, but I did not refer much to
the courses that they ought to take over the next four years. There are, in
fact, some very highly recommended courses that they should take, because I
think if they do take them and if they do study well and they do pass - and I
say some of this in jest, but it is a very serious vein throughout - if they do
study well, and get a good passing grade, we, as a Province, will be better off
at the end of the eight semesters, and no doubt they should get a passing grade.
They should get their degree, as we say, at the end of the four-year term.
One of the courses, of course, is economics. It is always very beneficial if
anybody takes economics, particularly a government who are administering the
resources of the Province and where we stand. So far, this government - somewhat
concerned about the limited economics study that they have done. There is macro,
of course, and then there is microeconomics, anyone who is familiar with it at
all. I am certainly no guru in that area, as Dr. House would be, but it is the
comments of the economics. For example, Dr. House, a very qualified, very
experienced person in his field, in economics and so on, development, resource
development, he has been inducted as deputy minister into the Department
Innovation, Trade and Rural Development, and we wish him well. Again, it is a
case of only time will tell whether his experience and his ideas are going to
work in this Province. We have had some past experience with it. For whatever
reasons, it did not come to fruition the way everyone had hoped and wanted it
to, but we will certainly see.
We have had talks, when we refer to economics again, part of that course
should, of course, take in the Rural Secretariat. Now, from my reading so far -
and I would like to hear more about this, and I am sure we will from government
over time - the newly-proclaimed Rural Secretariat seems to be the SSP that was
under the former Administration, the Strategic Social Plan, basically
reincarnated, a new name stuck on it. Maybe some new individual is going to be
to see what is new about this piece of the economics course that they are going
to teach the people of this Province in the next four years when it comes to
this Rural Secretariat, particularly who is going to have involvement in it,
because we have our zone boards around the Province now - we have twenty zone
boards - how do they fit with the Rural Secretariat? What kind of input will
communities around the Province have into the Rural Secretariat? We know how it
was structured under SSP. Is it going to be the same? If not, what is different?
Why is it different? I am aware, for example, already, that the Town Council in
Burgeo have written to the minister and said: What is this Rural Secretariat?
How can we have some input into it? Can we have some input into it? She has
responded to say, yes, she anticipates they will get some involvement, but only
time will tell again how she intends to take the grassroots and the
municipalities in this Province and incorporate their ideas into the Rural
Secretariat. That, from an economics perspective, we would like to see.
Again, you might have some assets from an economic point of view or
development point of view, in that economics course, that you are not using. For
example, we had a deputy minister by the name of John Scott, and Mr. Scott was
shuffled off to the MMSB, the Multi-Materials Stewardship Board, to make room
for Dr. House, who went into Industry. Mr. Scott is a $130,000 employee, very
experienced, very well trained, has a lot of knowledge and a lot of information
in the field of rural development. In fact, it was called Industry, Trade and
Rural Development, that he was the deputy minister of. Now, that costly $130,000
salary has been parked over at MMSB where the Chair used to get paid a stipend,
I believe it was $20,000 a year. Quite a difference. I would suggest that we
ought to, as good students again, in taking the course, we have to make sure the
course is properly developed, that the economics course should utilize assets
that we have there.
I saw recently an announcement on the government Web site, that the Premier
is advertising for a deputy minister for his Department of Business. Surely, we
need not - if we are talking about wise use of government funding, one has to
consider: Why would we be looking for someone to bring in as a deputy minister
at another $130,000 cost, a Deputy Minister of Business, when we already have a
Mr. Scott who, as I understand it, is down at MMSB, and he is certainly, I would
say, overqualified to be there. I have had the pleasure of working with Mr.
Scott and he definitely is very qualified, so I do not know why we have to go
outside and advertise if we have someone of his caliber there to fill in that
spot, not only as the deputy minister, but even if he were utilized as the
information officer that the government has gone off to advertise for, for this
new Department of Business.
It is not only good to come up with new ideas and have a new approach, but
there are some things in the old system that are still very valuable and still
very useable and have a purpose in our system.
Another course that the government ought to take within the next four years -
and we have not seen much evidence of it in this Budget at least - is
statistics. Statistics, of course, they say you could make statistics show
anything, but I mean it from a very productive point of view when I say
statistics. For example, out-migration. We know that we have had a long arduous
task in this Province to come from massive out-migration in the last ten, twelve
or fifteen years to trying to get more people in than leave, the net-migration
factor.
We were fortunate. Last year, 2003, was the first time in fifteen years that
we had a positive net-migration. Some naysayers might pooh-pooh the idea that we
had 359 people into this Province last year more than left, but that is the
first time we have ever had a positive sign. Quite frankly, we would all like to
see that positive trend continue so that fifteen years out, that 359 has become
35,009 so that our population has grown and not diminished.
In your statistics course, pay very close attention to that out-migration
factor that was positive last year and hopefully it will stay positive in the
next four years. So far, from what we have seen in this Budget, there has not
been much encouragement to suggest that the out-migration figures will stay on a
positive note. We have to provide opportunities for people to stay here. We have
to provide opportunities for people to come here. We have to get our people
trained and have the industries here that they can work in, in order for those
figures to continue to grow.
Today, for example, in this House, the Minister of Natural Resources gave a
Ministerial Statement talking about the positive and exuberant feeling that
existed at the oil show in Houston. So it should, we have a great industry
there, but there is no point in growing the industry if, as we grow it, the very
skilled people that we need to work in it have left because there have not been
opportunities for them here in this Province or we have not trained them
properly. Of course, that is your future return on your investments. We make all
kinds of investments, educationally and everything, but the greatest investment
is in people's education, training programs, CONA and so on, public education
systems, so that the people who take the courses get the training and stay here.
That is our biggest asset, when they stay here and are contributors to our
economy by working here.
Mathematics is a very important course that every Administration should take,
of course. We have seen some evidence of the mathematics in this Budget so far.
In fact, we had a big pre-course, I would call it, a pre-math course, before we
ever got to the Budget. I would call it the Gourley-Sullivan report, because it
was a foundation course. Again, like most foundation courses, of course, as most
people say with anything, what comes out depends on what you put in. I guess my
concern here, Mr. Speaker, was that Mr. Gourley's report, shall we say, was
suspect in many, many regards. What exactly was he instructed to look at? What
are the credentials? What are the specifics of his report that he came back with
and how reliable is his report? I think we have had several people - including a
certain Mr. Mackenzie who did some work on behalf of the union movement in this
Province - who pointed out some very good questions and concerns that would
suggest that Professor Sullivan and Dr. Gourley might not necessarily have given
us the full meal deal when it comes to this Budget here. Maybe we know a little
bit about how to fudge figures to get the results that we want, but I give them
an A+ so far for the preparation, the studying and the spin piece; not a
problem. I give them an A+ on that but I give them a D on the content that came
back from the Gourley-Sullivan report, I call it.
Now, another very important course that we have to keep an eye on in the next
four years is anatomy. Of course, human anatomy is very, very important and this
is one that, really, this Administration has to take note of. The question was
raised of the Minister of Health and Community Services, for example, in
Question Period here one day. The comment was made: Well, minister, we know you
have a head for figures but do you have a heart for people? That is a pretty
rough statement to make and only time will show, of course, if we have that. In
our anatomy course it is definitely recommended that this Administration has to
take this course, and we will be watching to see. For example, a hand, a pa