ISSN 0542-5492 Second Session - Thirty-Second legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS 31-32 Elizabeth II Published under the authority of The Honourable D. James Walding Speaker VOL. XXXI No. 163 - 2:00 p.m., WEDNESDAY, 18 JANUARY, 1984. Prmted by the Office of the OUMns Pr1nler. Province ot Manitoba .

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Second Legislature Members, Constituencies and Political Affiliation Name ADAM, Hon. A.R. (Pete) ANSTETT, Hon. Andy ASHTON, Steve BANMAN, Robert (Bob) BLAKE, David R. (Dave} BROWN, Arnold BUCKLASCHUK, Hon. John M. CARROLL, Q.C., Henry N. CORRIN, Q.C., Brian COWAN, Hon. Jay DESJARDINS, Hon. Laurent DODICK, Doreen DOERN, Russell DOLIN, Hon. Mary Beth DOWNEY, James E. DRIEDGER, Albert ENNS, Harry EVANS, Hon. Leonard S. EYLER, Phil FILMON, Gary FOX, Peter GOURLAY, D.M. (Doug) GRAHAM, Harry HAMMOND, Gerrie HARAPIAK, Harry M. HARPER, Elijah HEMPHILL, Hon.

Maureen HYDE, Lloyd JOHNSTON, J. Frank KOSTYRA, Hon. Eugene KOVNATS, Abe LECUYER, Hon. Gerard LYON, Q.C., Hon. Sterling MACKLING, Q.C., Hon. Al MALINOWSKI, Donald M. MANNESS, Clayton McKENZIE, J. Wally MERCIER, Q.C., G.W.J. (Gerry) NORDMAN, Rurik (Ric) OLESON, Charlotte ORCHARD, Donald PAWLEY, Q.C., Hon. Howard R. PARASIUK, Hon. Wilson PENNER, Q.C., Hon. Roland PHILLIPS, Myrna A. PLOHMAN, Hon. John RANSOM, A. Brian SANTOS, Conrad SCHROEDER, Hon. Vic SCOTT, Don SHERMAN, L.R. (Bud) SMITH, Hon. Muriel STEEN, Warren STORIE, Hon. Jerry T. URUSKI, Hon. Bill USKIW, Hon. Samuel WALDING, Hon. D. James Constituency Ste.

Rose Springfield Thompson La Verendrye Minnedosa Rhineland Gimli Brandon West Ellice Churchill St. Boniface Riel Elmwood Kil don an Arthur Emerson Lakeside Brandon East River East Tuxedo Concordia Swan River Virden Kirkfield Park The Pas Rupertsland Logan Portage la Prairie Sturgeon Creek Seven Oaks Niakwa Radisson Charleswood St. James St. Johns Morris Roblin-Russell St. Norbert Assiniboia Gladstone Pembina Selkirk Transcona Fort Rouge Wolseley Dauphin Turtle Mountain Burrows Rossmere lnkster Fort Garry Osborne River Heights Flin Flon Interlake Lac du Bonnet St.

Vital Party NOP NOP NOP PC PC PC NOP INO NOP NOP NOP NOP NOP NOP PC PC PC NOP NOP PC NOP PC PC PC NOP NOP NOP PC PC NOP PC NOP PC NOP NOP PC PC PC PC PC PC NOP NOP NOP NOP NOP PC NOP NOP NOP PC NOP PC NOP NOP NOP NOP

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, 18 January, 1984. Time - 2:00 p.m. OPENING PRAYER by Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER, Hon. J. Walding: Presenting Petitions . . . Reading and Receiving Petitions . . . Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees . MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS AND TABLING OF REPORTS MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Natural Resources. HON. A. MACKLING: Mr. Speaker, I wish to inform the House that Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Ontario, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, Yukon, The Northwest Territories and Canada have agreed to participate in the new Canadian Heritage Rivers System.

The objectives of the Canadian Heritage Rivers System can be summed up as, first, to increase national awareness of the important rivers of Canada; to ensure that the natural heritage values of these rivers are recognized, conserved and interpreted; and third, to manage these rivers so that Canadians and visitors to Canada can have an opportunity to use them for recreation and to become knowledgeable about their immense heritage values. As the country is endowed with more fresh water than any on earth, Canada's rivers are a rich and irreplaceable part of our national heritage.

The creation of the system seeks to respond to the rapidly increasing demand by both Canadians and tourists for canoeing, kayaking and other water-based recreational activities. It also responds to a growing public concern for protecting and enhancing our natural and cultural heritage. Rivers included in the Canadian Heritage Rivers System will continue to be owned and managed by the federal, provincial or territorial governments, having jurisdiction in a way which will ensure that their distinctive heritage values are protected and opportunities are provided for public use and enjoyment.

The Canadian Heritage Rivers System is to be managed by a board of senior officials from the federal and provincial governments. As a matter of fact, my deputy is in Ottawa today attending an inaugural meeting. There has been a task force working over the past two years, developing the system of nomination and designation and Manitoba's own Bloodvein River was used as the "test example" for the process. In due course I shall return to you with an account of progress in designating the Bloodvein River, once my colleagues and I have reviewed the implications and context of a recommendation from the board.

As well, a first task of the board is to arrange for a flow of information to the public on this important initiative, and I will make sure details are available to members as they come to hand. It is my intention to nominate part of the Bloodvein River to the Canadian Heritage Rivers System. The Bloodvein River is a rugged, beautiful, and enchanting place with ancient pictographs on canyon walls and with wild waters that capture the essence of the Canadian mystique. Manitoba is blessed with many waterways which have outstanding natural, cultural and recreational value.

The waterways of Manitoba have figured significantly in the early history of the nation and today provide a superlative wilderness and recreational opportunities. Manitoba can take particular pride in the leading role we have taken in establishing the Canadian Rivers Heritage System, and I am sure that all members can join in a determination to support this new step to protect and manage this important resource for our generation and the generations to come. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Emerson. MR. A. DRIEDGER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to extend my appreciation to the Minister of Natural Resources for the announcement. However, I would like to say that in keeping with his other announcements that it follows along the lines that there is more planning than action with this Minister and we have some concerns about that, just like when he indicated the 17 park areas that he was designating for parks and wilderness areas. At that time, he indicated that planning was cheap, and we have the same thing here, we have a nice lesson in history here by the Minister. There are certain questions that we'd like to raise later on in this area.

First of all, were there any jurisdictions being given up by this province, when joining with other provinces, in terms of the Canadian Heritage Rivers System? We hope that there is no jurisdiction being released by this province and designating something out of its nature. We also hope that in designating the Bloodvein area that certain correspondence or dialogue will take place with the people there; that the consideration for the people along the Bloo dvein will be taken into consideration, possibly more so than the people that were involved in the Mantario Park which this Minister designated last year.

Those after-effects are still being felt by people from the area. There is a lot of activity and concern still being expressed, and it is my understanding that the people affected by the Mantario Park announcement are planning to again rally, and hope to meet with this Minister to resolve some of their problems from that announcement. So we hope that these are things that the Minister will address in terms of what is happening, the jurisdictional aspect of it and the consultation aspect of it. We'll be watching closely as to the results of it. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Finance. HON. V.

SCHROEDER: Mr. Speaker, I would like to table copies of the Actuarial Report on the Civil Service 5592

Wednesday, 18 January, 1984 Superannuation Fund as at December 31, 1982. believe the members all have received copies. MR. SPEAKER: Notices of Motion . . . INTRODUCTION OF BILLS MR. P. EYLER introduced Bill No. 116,

An Act to amend The City of Winnipeg Act (2). INTRODUCTION OF GUESTS MR. SPEAKER: Before Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the loge on my left. We have a former member of this House, Mr. George Henderson. On behalf of all of the members, I welcome you here this afternoon. ORAL QUESTIONS MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Lakeside. Constitutional amendments MR. H. ENNS: Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Government House Leader. Has the government MR. H. ENNS: My question is directed to the Government House Leader.

Has the government officially transmitted the subamendment that was introduced to this Chamber last Friday, pertaining to the constitutional resolution before this Chamber, to representatives of the SFM ? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Government House Leader. HON. A. ANSTETT: No, Mr. Speaker. MR. H. ENNS: Mr. Speaker, has the government entered ·into any discussions with respresentatives of the SFM about the amendment that was described as significant, that was described and hailed as a conciliatory move on the part of the opposition with respect to this whole language issue by the same Government House Leader?

Has the government entered any discussions with respect to that subamendment with representatives of the SFM ? HON. A. ANSTETT: Mr.

Speaker, without getting into any discussion of the subame r:dment which the Opposition House Leader accurately described as a major reversal by his caucus, I would say that I did actually, on the weekend, have a call from someone who I think could be appropriately described as a representative of the SFM , and I did outline to that person on the phone because they had not seen the document in writing and I did not have it at the time, what the intent was as I understood ii and, Sir, I believe the response that was given would indicate a lack of willingness on their part to entertain the full intent to that amendment; but certainly the response was an indication that they, too, agreed that this was a significant movement by members opposite from their position last summer, and they thought it was a good sign that members opposite do want to become part of the mainstream political consensus of this province on this issue.

MR. H. ENNS: Mr. Speaker, a final supplementary question that I would prefer to ask and direct to the First Minister, but I will direct it to the Government House Leader. Last night, the members of the Franco-Manitoban Society met and I understand voted by some 506 in favour of the Howard Pawley language proposals currently before the Legislature as opposed to 112 against. Now my question to the House Leader is, Mr. Speaker, we know this government listens to those 506 people. When will this government start listening to the hundreds of thousands of Manitobans that are saying "no" to these language proposals?

HON. A. ANSTETT: Mr. Speaker, I think the government has clearly indicated in the new proposal announced in mid-December, presented to this House at the beginning of this month, that not only does it listen but that the words spoken by Manitobans and the suggestions made by Manitobans do credit to the spirit of compromise, tolerance, and the willingness to accommodate others ttiat lies at the basis of the democratic tradition of this province. Manitobans have a right to be proud of the compromise proposal they have helped this government put together. Mr.

Speaker, for members opposite to suggest, as has been suggested in the question by the Member for Lakeside, the Honourable Opposition House Leader, that for some reason the dramatic drop in support at the SFM meeting is a massive endorsation, I commend to his attention the fact that only 2 percent of the votes at a meeting held last May were opposed to the proposal made last May. I understand that yesterday it was 18 percent opposed. There's been a nine-fold increase, 900 percent increase, in the diminution of support from that community but, Mr.

Speaker, I know, and members on this side know, that is more than made up for by the tremendous support being found outside of that community among the rest of the population of Manitoba for a proposal which provides for validation by amendment, and services by statute. There is only one small step left for members opposite to become part of that consensus - on the assumption, Sir, that they haven't changed their mind on the bill - which they've said from last May they would support principle. We're still waiting to hear where they stand •)n that. Are they part of the solution or part of the problem? MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for St. Norbert. MR. G. MERCIER: Mr. Speaker, . . . MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Order please. The Honourable Member for St. Norbert. 5593

Wednesday, 18 January, 1984 Changes in election acts MR. G. MERCIER: Mr. Speak er, I have a question for the Attorney-General. In view of the widespread concern among civil libertarians, the media and others throughout this country with respect to changes to The Canada Elections Act which would end the right of many people to publicly endorse the political party or candidate of their choice at election time; and in view of the fact, Mr.

Speaker, that the Attorney-General brought forward last year amendments to The Election Financing Act, which we opposed on this side but which essentially do the same thing, is the Attorney-General prepared to review the provisions of the amendments he had adopted this Session of the Legislature early last year? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Attorney-General. HON. R. PENNER: Mr. Speaker, first of all the provisions in The Elections Finance Act, which deal with that question, are not essentially the same as those contained in The Canada Elections Act.

However, I'll take the question as notice and reply more fully to the question raised by the Member for St. Norbert either tomorrow or Friday. Attorney-Gen eral - expanding jurisdiction MR. G. MERCIER: Mr. Speaker, I thank the Attorney­ General for that answer. Mr. Speak er, a supplementary question. At this Session of the Legislature - it's so long, Mr. Speak er, it seems like it was the last Session last summer - but during the summer months and the spring months we, on !his side, advocated an increase in the Small Claims jurisdiction.

In view of the fact that the Province of Saskatchewan has now indicated they are raising the amount from $1,000 to $3,000, the jurisdiction in the Small Claims Court in Saskatchew an, would the Attorney-General be prepared to now give some favourable consideration to expanding the jurisdiction of the Small Claims Court to allow that cheaper and less expensive remedy to people in this province? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Attorney-General. HON. R. PENNER: Yes, Mr.

Speak er, I have indicated in the past that I do favour, in principle, increasing the jurisdiction for the Small Claims Court and whether it's from $1 ,000 to $2,000 or $1 ,000 to $3,000 is a matter that we can discuss. Indeed I'd be more than happy lo discuss it with the Member for St. Norbert.

I would simply say this, that at this time with the unification of the County Court and the Queen's Bench, I wanted that to take place first and then look at the whole question of the Small Claims procedure, not only in terms of its jurisdiction expressed in dollars, but in terms of where it is most properly placed; that is, as an offset of the Queen's Bench or perhaps Small Claims procedures can be dealt with in some other way. So I have two problems and I want to bring them in together. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for La Verendrye. Seat belt legislation MR. R. BANMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I direct my question to the Minister of Highways and would ask him, in light of the fact that the government decided several months ago not to charge any of those people who, for the first three months until April 1st, would not wear their seat belts; and in light of the growing opposition by the public with regard to the compulsory aspects of wearing seat belts in this province, would the Minister undertake or take under advisement the possibility of extending that period where they will not charge people till, let's say, December 31 , 1984? A MEMBER: Good idea. Good idea. l\ll R.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Highways. HON. J. PLOHMAN: Well, Mr. Speaker, it looks like the honourable members opposite would like us to extend that period inevitably into the future. It shows there are a few, Mr. Speaker, who do not subscribe to that. Of course the Leader of the Opposition, who obviously doesn't have too much clout on that issue over on the other side, he stood up and supported that as I mentioned earlier, he supported that legislation. It's good to see that someone over there is concerned about the safety of Manitobans on the highways, Mr.

Speaker, and it's unfortunate that he cannot convince the rest of his colleagues to support good legislation that is there !or a very important purpose. Certainly these people across the way see some political advantage in the short term at least, Mr. Speak er, in stirring up opposition and people to get involved in and complaining about it. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The Honourable Opposition House Leader on a point of order. llll R. H. ENNS: Mr. Speaker, my colleague from La Verendrye asked a straightforward question, would he extend the period? I think our rules call for a straightforward reply. MR.

SPEAKER: The honourable member will be aware that our rules do not require any particular answer, or even an answer from the Minister. The Honourable Minister of Highways. HON. J. PLOHMAl\I: You asked the question and your colleague asked the question. If you want an answer, I'll give him the answer, Mr. Speaker. Clearly three months grace period gives both the law enforcement people an opportunity to familiarize themselves with this law, and it also gives the public an opportunity to familiarize themselves with the details of this law and how it applies, Mr. Speaker.

So we do not intend to extend that particular period past the three-month period. We think it's an appropriate length for people to get used to it. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for La Verendrye. Educ ation - bussing of students MR. R. BAN MAl\I: Mr. Spe ak er, myself and my constituents are sorry to hear that. 5594

Wednesday, 18 January, 1984 I direct another question to the Minister of Education, and would ask her whether or not the government has awarded the bus contract tender - I think tenders closed sometime around November 13th - whether or not the government has awarded the school bus tender for bodies and chassis that was tendered around November 13th. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Education. HON. M. HEMPHILL: Mr. Speaker, I'll lake that question as notice. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Elmwood. Bilingualism in Manitoba MR. R. DOERN: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Municipal Affairs. Given that the Franco-Manitoban Society's President stated last night that they could obtain more from this government in an ou\-of-court settlement than they could from a Supreme Court ruling, is the Minister now prepared to admit that the Attorney-General's views concerning the dangers of a Supreme Court decision were not well­ founded? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Municipal Affairs. HON. A. ANSTETT: Mr.

Speaker, obviously I cannot confirm any statements made outside this House by third parties that the Member for Elmwood alleges were made. I certainly find it hard to believe the statement was made, as the Member for Elmwood suggests. But there is absolutely no question, Sir, that the out-of­ court settlement, as the member describes it, provides what Manitobans want, and that is the protection and validation of our laws; and provides, on the other side of that coin, services for Francophones.

There is absolutely no question that without the amendment before this House, Manitobans would not be able to validate their laws. So Manitobans get something they could not get without this out-of-court settlement. Francophones also receive, as do Anglophones in this province, guarantees of services which could not be obtained otherwise. The court solution, which I take it the Member for Elmwood advocates, solves no problems and only perpetuates the dilemma. Mr.

Speaker, for the benefit of all members, I think it's very clear that the original proposal made by the Attorney-General, and his description of that settlement and that proposal, was and remains very accurate. MR. R. DOERN: Mr. Speaker, I would also like to ask the Minister whether he doe sn't recognize and appreciate the growing opposition to the government's newest proposals; that there have been people who have been in this Legislature and the galleries every single day of this Session; that there were 51 people here from the Interlake yesterday that met with two of the Ministers . . . MR. SPEAKER: Question.

MR. R. DOERN: . . . that there are 150 people who are here this morning, some of whom are still here from the Interlake in a demonstration; I simply ask the Minister whether he doesn't recognize the growing public opposition to the newest proposals, including thousands of petitions and thousands of ballots that have been sent in. HON. A. ANSTETT: Mr. Speaker, I think it's very clear that some Manitobans still have concerns about the proposal which is before this Assembly. In fact the Minister of Agriculture and I met yesteday with some of those Manitobans. Mr.

Speaker, I think though, it's very clear that there is far more support, in fact there is clearly a consensus around the new proposal which is before this House, and far less opposition to that proposal than there was to the original proposal. In fact, part of the reason there is far less opposition now is the fact that members opposite have, except for one small step that is left for them to make, come onside with that proposal. MR. R. DOERN: Mr. Speaker, I think the Minister should have an opportunity 0f putting his money where his mouth is. MR. SPEAKER: Question. MR. R.

DOERN: Given that he claims these are entirely new proposals and given that all he has to date is the expressed approval of the Franco-Manitoban Society by a vote of 506 to 112, would the Minister be prepared to support a move to seek the approval of all the people of Manitoba through a province-wide referendum held by the Provincial Government? HON. A. l{NSTETT: Mr. Speaker, that question has been answered for the Member for Elmwood several times over the last six or seven months. The answer has not changed.

This government does not believe and, until recently and I hope it hasn't changed, the official opposition in this Chamber does not believe and has said they do not believe that matters of this kind should be settled by referenda or plebiscite. - (Interjection) - Mr. Speaker, the question . . . MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Order please. HON. A. ANSTETT: . . . of minority rights and complex questions of any type should not be - it's been this government's position from Day One - addressed in the kind of popular fashion and populace fashion that ! •e member recommends. MR. R. DOERN: Mr.

Speaker, I'll ask this one final question. How can a Minister take the opinions of 618 people as final, and ignore the judgment of a million Manitobans? MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. G. FILM ON: Mr. Speak er, just by way of clarification, my question is to the Minister of Municipal 5595

Wednesday, 18 January, 1984 Affairs. Did he say in the response that he gave to the initial question of the Member for Elmwood that the laws of Manitoba, as they currently exist, are invalid? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Government House Leader. HON. A. ANSTETT: Mr.

Speaker, as I recall the question of the Member for Elmwood, the question related to whether or not the suggestion that - and I could not confirm whether or not the quotation was accurate - the suggestion that the SFM and the Francophone community in this province would get more from a politically dealt with solution, a legislative solution, than they would from the courts. That allegation was made by the Member for Elmwood.

I said that the out-of-court settlement, as he described it, would provide something to the people of Manitoba and the Government of Manitoba that it could not get from the courts and that was an insured validation of our statutes. MR. G. FILMON: Mr. Speak er, in view of the fact that Manitoba won the Bilodeau challenge in the Court of Appeal, does he not agree that the laws of Manitoba, as they exist, are valid? MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Order please. Does the Honourable Leader of the Opposition wish to rephrase his question to ask for information and not for an opinion. The Honourable Leader of the Opposition.

MR. G. FILMON: In view of the fact that the Court of Appeal in the Bilodeau case ruled that the laws of Manitoba are valid as they exist, is the Minister now trying to tell us that the laws of Manitoba are not valid? HON. A. ANSTETT: Mr. Speaker, if I left the impression that I am suggesting in any way that the laws of Manitoba are currently invalid, I withdraw that suggestion. It was certainly not my intention to say that.

What I thought I said - and if there is any doubt about it, let's have it clearly on the record - the validity of the laws of Manitoba is being challenged in the Supreme Court of this nation, and all members in this House have received copies of a variety of legal opinions over the last eight months that confirm, as the Member for Turtle Mountain and the Member for Charleswood said in speeches last week, that there is a very real possibility that the laws of Manitoba could be declared invalid by the Supreme Court. Mr.

Speak er, when the Member for Virden becomes either the Member for Turtle Mountain or the Member for Charleswood, he can take issue. It was only those two members I said made that statement. If they no longer speak for members opposite, please rise in your place and deny them. Education - compulsory departmental exams MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Morris. MR. C. MANNESS: Thank you, Mr. Speak er. I would address my question to the Minister of Education.

I would ask whether the government is considering introducing compulsory departmental examinations at the Grade 12 level in a manner similar to that in Alberta, Quebec and Newfoundland? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Education. HON. M. HEMPHILL: No, Mr. Speaker. MR. C. MANNESS: Well, Mr. Speaker, I would ask a supplementary as to whether the Department of Education is cognizant of the reasons that departmental exams have been brought back into Alberta. Are they cognizant of the factors or the trends that are in existence there that have caused that province to bring back departmental exams? HON. M.

HEMPHILL: Mr. Speaker. I think it's far more important that we be cognizant of what is going on in the Province of Manitoba than what is going on in other provinces. I have to say that while I understand the reasons for assessment and for examinations at both the provincial and the local level - I certainly know what the reasons are - I think the system that we have in place in Manitoba is an excellent one. As a matter of fact I must admit, Mr. Speaker, it's the same one that was in existence when they were in office a couple of years ago.

We have a dual system of examination where we examine at the provincial level to determine the provincial criteria and ability of children across the province in the various curriculums, and the school divisions test and evaluate the ability of children to pass those examinations at the local level. So we share the responsibility. I don't think we need to make changes just because another province is doing them, when the problems and the deficiencies are not the same in this province as they are in the others. MR. C. MANNESS: Mr. Speaker, my question was quite specific.

I asked the Minister whether her department was aware of the reasons in Alberta. I take it that the Minister and her department are not aware of the reasons that Alberta has seen fit to bring in departmental exams. I would ask a final supplementa ry. Is it the government's intentions to seek the views of both the Teachers' Society and the Association of Superintendents and also school trustees in this matter as to whether these bodies and these associations would like to see introduced, within this province, departmental examinations? HON. Ill. HEMPHILL: Mr.

Speaker, I can tell that the member opposite is not aware of the existing system in our province, because we have a committee that is presently made up that has representation from all of those organizations who participate on making decisions on the assessment program for this province. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Order please. The Honourable Member for Arthur. 5596

Wednesday, 18 January, 1984 Manitoba Crop Insurance Corporation MR. J. DOWNEY: Mr. Speaker, I have a question to the Minister of Agriculture. Can the Minister of Agriculture indicate whether he has carried out a study of Manitoba crop insurance in the past year? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Agriculture. HON. B. URUSKI: Mr. Speak er, there is and has been an ongoing review for approximately a year, internally, in crop insurance. MR. J. DOWNEY: Mr. Speaker, can the Minister confirm that one Mr.

Harry Weijs is the individual who is carrying out that study, a former consultant to the Minister of Agriculture, or Policy Planning Co-ordinator, with the Department of Agriculture? HON. B. URUSKI: Mr. Speak er, I wish to advise the honourable member that Mr. Weijs is no longer in the employ of the Provincial Government. MR. J. DOWNEY: Mr. Speaker, I asked the question of the Minister of Agriculture. Was Mr. Weijs the individual who was initially hired to carry out the study of Manitoba crop insurance? HON. B. URUSKI: Mr. Speaker, there were a number of people involved in the overview. Mr.

Weijs was one of those. The people who were involved were people from the corporation, the Federal Government who also participate in the cost-sharing of crop insurance, as well as other staff from our department. MR. J. DOWNEY: Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Agriculture indicate as to who paid for, and at what cost the study is being carried out, of Manitoba crop insurance? HON. B. URUSKI: Mr.

Speaker, studies and work of review of program are conducted by the department on an ongoing basis, and the evaluation of programming is a continuous approach that I have undertaken in the department to evaluate the effectiveness of the programs. As the honourable member should be aware when he was Minister, that the numbers of farmers enrolled in the crop insurance program over the years has been steadily dropping. He should know that, because they were dropping during his years, and there is dissatisfaction with the program in terms of coverage and many other areas.

So that is the process that we have undertaken to review the program. MR. J. DOWNEY: Mr. Speaker, on a point of privilege, I would like to just . . . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Arthur state his matter of privilege. MR. J. DOWNEY: Yes, Mr. Speak er. I don't believe that what the Minister of Agriculture just indicated is accurate.

I would like him to table or provide, for this Assembly, a backup for what he just said, because I don't believe that it is correct that the numbers of farmers that are participating in Manitoba Crop Insurance have been depleting over the past few years, and I think those statements are inaccurate and would ask him to verify what he has said by tabling the participation in Manitoba Crop Insurance reports, Mr. Speaker, in this Assembly. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. There is no matter of privilege. Oral Questions. The Honourable Member for Minnedosa. Manitoba Securities Commission MR. D. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. My question is to the Honourable Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs, I assume who is responsible for the Manitoba Securities Commission. Could the Minister inform this House, with the extension of French language services, if the Manitoba Securities Commission will be required to provide the services in both languages? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Attorney-General. HON. R. PENNER: I'll take that question as notice. I think that we cannot really answer questions of that kind.

It anticipates a matter that is presently before the House and what will be required in terms of the delivery of services will depend upon the passage of the bill, as it may be amended in Committee. We hope that the members opposite play their role as a responsible opposition and will allow this bill to get to Committee so we may find out, once and for all, what the shape of that package is, because we know they support that in principle - at least unless they changed their mind recently they do - and once it's in Committee questions of that kind can be addressed. MR. D. BLAKE: Mr.

Speaker, I thank the Minister for that lecture in how to handle the bill, but my reason for asking the question is to get some clarification because I'm sure the Minister will realize that if this is required and all prospectuses . MR. SPEAKER: Question. MR. D. BLAKE: . . . have to be provided in two languages, does the Minister realize that this will ruin the economy of Manitoba if prospectuses and all these documents of the Manitoba Securities Commission have io be translated into both languages, people are just going to bypass the Province of Manitoba? We would like to have these answers, Mr.

Speaker, in order that we can deal with things because they come up in the bill. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Order please. Would the honourable member wish to rephrase his question to seek information, rather than to pose a hypothesis? MR. D. BLAKE: I would rephrase the question this way, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister inform this House if prospectuses coming before the Manitoba Securities Commission, for people doing business in the Province 5597

Wednesday, 18 January, 1984 of Manitoba, will be required to be produced in two languages? HON. R. PENNER: Mr. Speaker, if the member had read the bill and, if having read it he had understood it, it would be clear that there's just no question that that is not so. Clearly the members of the community are able to choose any language they wish in dealing with government, including French or English. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Rhineland. Manitoba Senior Citizens' Handbook MR. A. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health.

The Manitoba Council on Aging came out with a Manitoba Senior Citizens' Handbook which was financed in part by the Manitoba Department of Health. On the front page of that particular senior citizens' handbook it says that it's going to be available, besides English, in French, in German and in Ukrainian. It's my understanding that a number of requests have been made and it's not available in the German and the Ukrainian language. Would the Minister look into this and see if he could get it translated into those other two languages as promised? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Health. HON. l.

DESJARDINS: Mr. Speak er, if the promise was made we'll certainly live up to the promise. I'll try to get the information for my honourable friend. I missed - what language were you requesting? Were you requesting a special language? MR. A. BROWN: German and Ukrainian. HON. l. DESJARDINS: German and Ukrainian. I'll send you the French one, too, by the way. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Pembina. Views of Neil McDonal d re Grassroots MR. D. ORCHARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Deputy Premier.

In view of the growing support for the organization Grassroo!s in the Province of Manitoba in opposition to the government's latest proposal on French language services, and in view of the fact that Manitoba Grassroots has a number of very prominent, well-informed, well-intentioned members, could the Deputy Premier indicate whether she and her colleagues in government concur with the view of Mr. Neil Mc Donald, President of Manitoba 23, who supports the government's proposals, that memberships of Grassroots are nothing but a bunch of mean-spirited Ku-Kluxers without sheets. llll R. SPEAKER: Order please.

It is not in order to ask if the government agrees with a private citizen's view. The Honourable Member for Pembina. MR. D. ORCHARD: Mr. Speak er, may I rephrase my question to the Deputy Premier?

In view of the fact that Manitoba 23 agrees with the Provincial Government's position on extending bilingual services, and in view of the fact that an organization by the name of Grassroots disagrees with the provincial position, will the Deputy Premier indicate whether she and her colleagues will be biased in their consideration of the opposition expressed by Grassroots as a result of comments, that they are mean-spirited Klu-Kluxers in sheets? MR. SPEAKER: Order please. That is clearly an improper question. Oral Questions. Order please. The Honourable Minister of Community Services. HON. M. SMITH: Mr.

Speaker, I'm glad we live in a province where all sorts of groups can organize to present their views to the public, but my ... MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The question was not in order. The answer is, therefore, also not in order. Oral Questions. INTRODUCTION OF GUESTS MR. SPEAKER: Before moving to Orders of the Day, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery on my left where we have . . . Order please. With your permission, I would like to introduce the presence of a former member of this House in the loge on my left. Mr.

Sidney Green, on behalf of all of the members, I welcome you here this afternoon. HANSARD CORRECTION MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Charleswood. HON. S. LYON: Mr. Speaker, I have a correction for Hansard, Page 556 1, Friday, 13 January. In the second line of the first column I'm reported to have said, "Mr. Speaker, who has given up delivery of . . . "What I said, Sir, was, "Mr. Speaker, who has given up the livery of ... "referring to the House Leader; and on Page 5563, Mr. Speaker, I'm reported as saying, "English and French are the official languages of Manitoba for the purposes of

Section 23." It should ·ead, "English and French are the Official Languages of Manitoba only for the purposes of

Section 23." - (Interjection) MR. SPEAKER: Order please. HON. S. LYON: We like to be accurate, unlike you. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The correction is duly noted. The Honourable Government House Leader. Orders of the Day. HON. A. ANSTETT: Yes, Mr. Speaker. I take it that corrections in Hansard relate to the delivered text, and we are not setting a precedent in changing the facts. If that's what's being suggested I think we may be setting new precedents in this House for the retraction of statements. 5598

Wednesday, 18 January, 1984 Mr. Speaker, would you call Bill 115, please. ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. SPEAKER: On the proposed motion of the Honourable Minister of Municipal Affairs, Bill No. 115. The Honourable Member for Niakwa. MR. A. KOVNATS: Stand, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if any member wishes to speak on this Bill 115 I would have no reluctance to allow them to do so, as long as the bill stands in my name. MR. SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the House to have this matter stand. SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: No. MR. SPEAKER: Leave has not been granted. The Honourable Member for Niakwa. MR. A. KOV NATS: Mr.

Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Emerson that this House do now adjourn. MOTION presented and defeated. MR. H. EN NS: Yeas and Nays, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Call in the Members. I have been advised by the Official Opposition Whip that the Opposition will not return before 2:00 p.m. tomorrow. In view of this advice I have informed Chamber staff that they will not be required to remain on duty outside normal working hours. I have made arrangements to secure the Chamber and the sounding of the bells will be minimized to the greatest possible extent.

I am accordingly leaving the Chair to return at 5:30 p.m. this afternoon in order to adjourn the House. (And the Division bells having stopped ringing at 5:30 p.m.) MR. SPEAKER: The time being 5:30 the House is adjourned and stands adjourned until 2:00 p. m. tomorrow afternoon. (Thursday) 5599