Third Session, 41st Parliament

(2018) OFFICIAL REPORT

OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Thursday, March 1, 2018

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 91

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

CONTENTS

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Ministerial Statements

Dave Barrett

Hon. J. Horgan

A. Wilkinson

A. Weaver

Statements (Standing Order 25B)

Regulation of real estate industry

L. Throness

Esquimalt Military Family Resource Centre

M. Dean

Lil’wat Nation

Ts̓zil Learning Centre

J. Sturdy

Commercial fishing industry

J. Rice

Agriculture on Saltspring Island

A. Olsen

Alzheimer’s disease and work of Alzheimer Society

of B.C.

A. Kang

Oral Questions

Employer health tax impacts and

implementation

T. Redies

Hon. C. James

S. Bond

Protection and management of wild salmon and

steelhead

A. Olsen

Hon. J. Horgan

Impact of employer health tax on

businesses

J. Isaacs

Hon. C. James

Impact of employer health tax on post-secondary

institutions

M. Hunt

Hon. C. James

Impact of employer health tax on school

districts

T. Stone

Hon. R. Fleming

Impact of employer health tax on

businesses

J. Thornthwaite

Hon. C. James

Air ambulance fee for wildfire evacuee

D. Barnett

Hon. A. Dix

Impact of employer health tax on school

districts

J. Tegart

Hon. R. Fleming

E. Foster

Point of Privilege (Reservation of

Right)

J. Rustad

Orders of the Day

Budget Debate

(continued)

Hon. M. Mungall

T. Redies

Hon. C. James

THURSDAY, MARCH 1, 2018

The House met at 10:05 a.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers.

Introductions by Members

Hon. J. Horgan: It is an honour to rise today and acknowledge some guests in the

gallery. I have a number of them. Firstly, a dear friend of mine from

Langford, Cody Bell, is here with his friend Oliver. They’re going to be

enjoying question period and the remains of the day after that.

Also joining us in the precinct is the Westshore secondary school

grade 11 class. They’re here with teachers Anita, Lyle, Betty and Debbie. I

met them in the foyer. They watched you process in, hon. Speaker. They were

dutifully impressed.

Most importantly, I want to acknowledge the presence in the gallery

today of the Barrett family. Joining us in the gallery are Dave Barrett’s

sons, Joe and Dan; daughter, Jane; grandson Andrew and beloved spouse,

Shirley Barrett. They are here today to observe an acknowledgment of Dave

Barrett’s tremendous contribution to British Columbia. I know all members

will be joining in that in the time ahead.

Would the House please make everyone welcome. [Applause.]

R. Chouhan: I have two sets of introductions to make today. The first one is my

friend Mario Gregorio. He is a member of the Alzheimer Society delegation.

They are here today to meet with the ministers and MLAs to talk about their

society’s contribution to British Columbia. He has lived in Burnaby-Edmonds

since 2008, when we first met. He’s been a very active volunteer. He has

helped me in every campaign since then. In the last campaign, he also helped

the Burnaby-Lougheed member.

Really, I’m so happy to see him here. I met with him last night again.

He’s a great photographer, and he has a passion to raise awareness about the

stigma that’s attached to people with dementia. I would like to ask all

members to give him a very warm welcome.

My second introduction — Minister of Health, I’m not finished yet — is

Vanita Minhas. She is a young woman who’s very passionate, very

hard-working. She does so much work in the community. She is an excellent

fundraiser. I knew her when she was a little baby — like that. Now she’s a

grown-up woman. She’s also here, working with the Alzheimer Society. Please

give her a very warm welcome too.

S. Sullivan: I’m very honoured to have a special guest here today, a very

successful businessperson, a philanthropist. Among his many roles in the

community is as a trustee for the Audain Art Museum in Whistler.

Will the House please welcome Tom Gautreau.

Hon. A. Dix: I should have known, hon. Speaker, that the Deputy Speaker has so many

friends.

In addition to Mario Gregorio, who’s here with the B.C. leadership

group of people living with dementia, we have lots of representatives of the

Alzheimer Society here. I think many members of the House are going to join

together for lunch today. I know my colleague from Coquitlam–Burke Mountain

will be speaking, as I will be.

[10:10 a.m.]

I wanted to introduce Maria Howard, the CEO of the Alzheimer Society;

Barbara Lindsay, the director; Jennifer Stewart, manager at the Alzheimer

Society; Alex Chui, the provincial coordinator; Mario Gregorio, as the

Deputy Speaker introduced; and Robert Piasentin.

I’d like the House to wish all of them welcome and hope everyone will

be able to join us for lunch.

L. Reid: I’m delighted to welcome to the precinct today representatives of the

British Columbia Search and Rescue Association, particularly Mr. Jim

McAllister. We met on the lawn earlier this morning to pay tribute to the

memorial that’s on the south lawn.

I certainly invite British Columbians to take a look. It’s a wonderful

tribute to their organization and to those who have given their lives in

support and rescue of other British Columbians.

I would ask the House to make them welcome.

Hon. M. Farnworth: Following on the member from Richmond, I’d also like to introduce a

number of search and rescue volunteers that are here to mark Search and

Rescue Volunteer Memorial Day. They include Shannon Rae and Robert

Northcott, representing PEP Air; Cathy Dupuis and Jason van der Valk,

representing the Royal Canadian Marine Search and Rescue; and Stephanie Hart

and Rick Morris, representing the British Columbia Search and Rescue

Association.

Day in and day out, these volunteers and thousands of others around

the province help keep our province and people who go out into the back

country or find themselves in distress safe. We want to congratulate them on

the work that they do.

Would the House please make them most welcome.

Hon. C. James: Yesterday I mentioned that the best high school in Victoria–Beacon

Hill was visiting the gallery. That best high school is back again today. A

very active teacher, very engaged in democracy, Ms. Jean Campbell from

Victoria High School is here today and will be entering the gallery with 23

grade 11 students and two adults.

I would like the House to please make them very welcome.

B. Ma: In about an hour and a half, a delegation of students from Capilano

University will be arriving in the precinct to meet with members of the

Legislative Assembly. They will be here to discuss the implications of the

confidence and supply agreement for democracy in British Columbia and how to

best address climate change and intergenerational equality. While they’re

not here yet, I would like to introduce them all by name.

Here we go: Jayde Achison, Jessica Courvoisier, Natalie Danieli,

Madelaine Dawson, Brooklynn Doucette, Geraldo Fornari Netto, Nathan Harada,

Helia Ghahremani, Keith Jackson, Michelle Livaja, Jaimi MacCara, Scott

Mason, Taylor McCarthy, Laura Melczer, Sarah Nankov, Owen O’Rourke, Brenden

Smith, Elena Tsvetkova and Jenna Young.

They are joined by Toran Savjord, Capilano University acting

president. They are also joined by Tracey Maynard, the lead organizer of the

Metro Vancouver Alliance, and their professor, who was also the 2017 B.C.

Green Party candidate for West Vancouver–Capilano and my good friend, Dr.

Michael Markwick.

Would the House please join me in welcoming them to the

precinct.

Ministerial Statements

DAVE BARRETT

Hon. J. Horgan: I rise today to pay tribute in this House to Dave Barrett, the

26th Premier of British Columbia, member of the Legislature in 1960

through ’75 for what was then known as the riding of Dewdney, which

included Port Coquitlam, Coquitlam and everything in between. He was

then returned to this place as the member for Vancouver East in 1976

through to 1984.

I had the good fortune of meeting Dave Barrett as a colleague, I

would say with some humility, when he was a member of the House of

Commons between 1988 and 1993, representing the great constituency of

Esquimalt–Juan de Fuca.

[10:15 a.m.]

As I reflect on the passing of Dave Barrett, the weekend ahead and

having the Barrett family with us here today — a memorial service will

be held at the University of Victoria on Saturday and, I would suggest

and characterize, a more raucous affair in Vancouver at the Croatian

Centre on Sunday — I think it’s appropriate that we pay tribute as

members of this Legislature to the enormous contribution that Dave

Barrett made to life in British Columbia and, most importantly, life in

this place.

I think it’s appropriate, as we do this before question period,

that we remind ourselves that there was no question period until Dave

Barrett introduced it. I think, as I look up at the Hansard table here

at the Legislature, it’s appropriate that we acknowledge that as well,

because were it not for Dave Barrett, perhaps we wouldn’t have every

utterance, every word, every piece of wisdom delivered on this floor

recorded for all time, as it is today — again, one of the contributions

of Dave Barrett.

Although we have now decamped the opposition offices and left them

behind, when Dave Barrett became Premier, there were no opposition

offices. There were no opposition budgets. So all of us, whether we’re

on this side of the House or on that side of the House, owe a debt of

gratitude to Dave Barrett.

I know the Clerks and the Speaker will acknowledge, as well, that

the decorum in this place has been somewhat changed since Dave departed.

I know that we have more robust Sergeants-at-Arms, and no one has been

carried out in my time here. But Dave Barrett, rotund as he was, did get

carried out. So as I look at the Sergeant-at-Arms staff, be of good

cheer that you didn’t have to pick up Dave Barrett and cart him out of

this place.

His contribution was immense, not just here but right across the

province. We will all be aware of the enormous contributions — the 387

extraordinary bills that were put through in the time that we’re still

grappling with drafting legislation here in the 21st century. Cutting

and pasting together bills, bringing them forward and passing them with

a pace and a speed that would just not be done today — that was the

transformation that Dave Barrett brought to our legislative

processes.

I’ll touch upon some of those profound contributions in a minute.

But I want to, instead, tell you a little bit about how Dave Barrett

affected my life, even though I didn’t know it. Now, some of you may be

aware that I had a tempestuous time as a high school student, and I owe

a debt of gratitude to Dave Barrett for abolishing corporal punishment.

I didn’t know at the time that Dave Barrett was doing me a service, but

in fact, he was.

Later on, after graduating from high school — at great surprise to

most of my teachers — I went on to work in a place called Ocean Falls. I

wouldn’t have been able to go to Ocean Falls and make enough money to go

on to post-secondary education if Dave Barrett and his government, the

first NDP government, had not intervened when Crown Zellerbach said:

“We’re not making enough money here. We’re out.” Dave Barrett and the

NDP government bought the town lock, stock and barrel. That provided me

an opportunity to experience life in a rural community, to experience

life in a mill, to experience life in a place that would not have

existed were it not for Dave Barrett.

Now, the government was eventually defeated, as all governments

are, but the new government took some time before they wound up the

affairs of Ocean Falls. Even to this day, coming on to 40 years later, I

still run into the diaspora of Ocean Falls. They all have fond memories

of their time there, largely because they were given a second life

because of Dave Barrett.

Dave Barrett gave those people a second life because of his

passion for the underdog. He cared deeply about this province and the

people that reside here. There was not a better advocate for the

downtrodden than Dave Barrett. There was not a more feisty and

passionate speaker in this Legislature before or since. He was a

profound political leader who affected the lives of everyone who came

upon him. You could not walk into a room that Dave Barrett was in and

not know he was there. The jacket over the shoulder, the sleeves rolled

up, the foot on the desk — I won’t emulate that here today, but it was

part and parcel of Dave Barrett’s presentation.

Later on, in 1983, I’d just graduated from university with my

winnings from time in Oceans Falls. I was on the lawn with about 30,000

other people here. It was the Solidarity movement at that time. The

opposition led by Dave Barrett was railing against the government for a

restraint program. I have to say that the restraint program was trying

to cap wages at 6 percent, and that was an insurrection in the streets.

So we have certainly transformed as a society, and the issues of today

are not the issues of yesterday. But 30,000 people showed up on the

Legislature lawns.

I went, on a lark, with a friend who said: “Let’s go down and see

what’s going on.” I had no particular political persuasion at that time,

but in all of the chanting and the signs and the carnival atmosphere of

a protest on the lawns, which we have not seen since, I saw this man

come out onto the steps.

[10:20 a.m.]

He was a shorter man and jiggled a little bit when he talked. In

fact, he jiggled a lot when he got going. I know Shirley saw more jiggle

than anyone else over the years. But when Dave started to go, the crowd

started to respond. They responded with love, genuine love, for a man

who was standing, fighting the good fight, always putting people ahead

of himself and always doing what he could to make life better for

people.

What struck me on that day, Members, as I watched Dave on the

stairs of the Legislature do his thing, was the profound power he had

over all of the people that were assembled there that day. It was not

just the presentation of the words. It was the power of them and the

focus of them, and that was always to make life better for

people.

I think we can all take a great lesson from Dave’s time here on

this great earth. He worked day after day after day, a fearless defender

of the rights of citizens. That’s why he created a B.C. Human Rights

Commission.

He felt, back in the 1970s, that we needed to ensure that we had

agricultural land to feed ourselves well into the future. We stand here,

in 2018, all of us in every corner of this House, proudly defending the

agricultural land reserve, which was mocked and ridiculed at the time.

But Dave Barrett stood here and said: “Damn you all. It’s the right

thing to do, and we’re going to do it.” There’s not a person in this

place or across this province that would disagree with that

today.

Public auto insurance has had a bit of a rocky road recently. I

know that…. I’m just going to let that pass. For a moment, I might take

a drink and just think about that for a minute — let that hang in the

air. Public auto insurance.

The vision of the Barrett government at that time was to ensure

that there was a public vehicle to ensure that the travelling public was

protected, not just those who were behind the wheel but those that might

be impacted by those that were behind the wheel. Ensuring that everyone

had mandatory automobile insurance protected people and saved lives. It

was a forward-looking policy at the time. It remains, despite successive

changes in government, in place — more or less for the betterment of

British Columbia. I’m hopeful that we can continue to build on that

legacy and make public auto insurance not just a legacy for the Barrett

government but a legacy for all British Columbians.

I want to acknowledge, also, Lynn Klein in the gallery today. Lynn

has been coming to this place — as all of you know, certainly almost as

long as I’ve been a member of this place — to observe the proceedings. A

former paramedic, a former Ambulance Service employee, Lynn comes here

because he believes profoundly in what we do. Dave Barrett established

the Ambulance Service in British Columbia, and Lynn Klein reminds me of

that frequently. I’m very, very much honoured — and I know the Barrett

family are — that there will be an honour guard of the B.C. Ambulance

Service at the memorial at UVic on Saturday.

It’s the contributions…. As you start going through the list, it

gets longer and longer and longer. I did touch on corporal punishment —

critically important to me at that time. But pay toilets in British

Columbia were abolished by Dave Barrett. That’s not a small thing. If

you’ve travelled in Europe and you’re hopping on one foot and don’t have

a pound sterling or a euro in your pocket, it can oftentimes be

embarrassing. That will not happen in British Columbia because of Dave

Barrett.

The list is as long as your arm. I have very many examples of them

here: a labour code, the minimum wage — the list is long — French in

schools.

Again, the love that was made between the Parti Québécois and Dave

Barrett was one of the stories he told me when he would hold court in

Ottawa with young staffers. The member for Vancouver-Kingsway and I

would gather around with other youngsters at that time — I would argue

we were youngsters at that time — and Dave would regale us with the

stories of how he and his intrepid band of comrades would fight the good

fight on behalf of the people of British Columbia.

Starting in this place, starting on this side of the House — of

course, he went back to 1960 — the first NDP government, the Allende of

the North, socialism had broken out in Canada, and Dave Barrett was the

face of that. Now, oftentimes when people hear about socialist hordes at

the gate…. This was a tried-and-true method of the former government

back in the ’50s, ’60s and up to the early ’70s. “We have to keep the

socialists at bay.”

The advantage that Dave Barrett had over everyone else was: he was

a happy warrior. He had a smile on his face all the time. He could be

hitting you upside the back of the head, and you wouldn’t have known it

because he was smiling at you so passionately and so vigorously. He was

a kind man. He was an affable man. He was someone you couldn’t help but

like.

[10:25 a.m.]

I was reading, and members will have in their in-boxes, the

Orders of the Day , which is a great publication put

together by former members of this place. Jim Hume — who was certainly a

longtime coverer of this place, sitting in the gallery — writes a very

fond piece on Dave in this edition of Orders of the

Day .

He says at the outset: “We were never friends.” Yet when Jim

Hume’s son was in hospital after a rugby injury, Dave immediately sent a

handwritten note to Jim Hume’s son. Before Jim could leave the

Legislature and get there to be at his bedside, Dave had already got a

note to him, talking about rugby and the misfortunes of that game. That

was the kind of guy he was. Even not being a friend, Jim Hume was able

to find a good thing to say.

That would be put alongside a story I heard with my friend from

Vancouver-Kingsway about the time that Dave bumped into Jim Hume in the

hallway and said: “Are you still writing for the paper?” Of course, as

members of the gallery will know, there’s no greater insult than to say

to someone who writes every day: “Are you still writing in the paper?”

Nonetheless, Dave did it with a smile on his face. Jim Hume, to this

day, looks back fondly on Dave’s time in this place because it was an

extraordinary time.

As an historian, I look back on the ’72-75 period. Obviously, as a

partisan and a social democrat, I look on it with pride. But I believe

all British Columbians look back at that time — the battles of Bennett

and Barrett…. I know many members in this place cut their teeth or

became aware of politics when these two titans were going at each other,

election after election after election.

Bill Bennett has passed away. Dave Barrett has passed away. But

the contribution that those two men made to this place is immeasurable.

The contribution Dave Barrett made to my movement and to my colleagues

on this side of the House…. We can never find the thanks to offer to his

family for the sacrifices that they made over those many, many

years.

Dave was, first and foremost, a family man. Wherever he went, the

family was right there. The Volvo was packed up, the bags were tied onto

the top, and off they went on their merry way.

Always with a smile, always with a song in his heart. Compassion,

empathy, decency — those are the things I think of when I think of Dave

Barrett. A giant in British Columbia who will be sorely missed. The 26th

Premier of British Columbia. Gone today but never, ever forgotten.

[Applause.]

A. Wilkinson: I thank the Premier for his thoughtful remarks about a true leader

who served in this House for so many years.

Of course, we thank his family for being here today to hear these

remarks in his honour and to pay respect to him.

We, of course, have to recognize that Dave Barrett spent most of

his adult life in public service. He served for many years in this

chamber and in Ottawa. His goal was to make British Columbia and Canada

a better place.

We can disagree fundamentally on some of his ideas. Nonetheless,

he left a profound legacy. We can all think, in this room, ourselves:

“How many of us will be remembered 45 years from now for major

institutions?” They still exist in our society. We can quibble with and

adjust and amend and change them for the better, but they still endure

because they were created by Dave Barrett.

Of course, that’s why we have a Legislature — because nothing’s

ever perfect. It needs to be adjusted and changed and improved. We think

of the agricultural land reserve, ICBC, Hansard, the Ambulance Service

and the question period phenomenon. I’ll come back to that. Things as

substantial as the durable French immersion programs we have in this

province, with 55,000 students enrolled in those programs, exist because

Dave Barrett launched them.

We have to reflect on our own goals and legacy and whether we can

ever reach the standard that he set for innovation in this chamber. Now,

some of the innovations involved taking himself out to the very edge of

the democratic envelope and being ejected from this room. Nonetheless,

he was a passionate advocate for the things he believed in, and he

believed in the democratic process for getting them done.

Think only of question period. Well, what would we do in this room

that would interest, entertain, stimulate and advance the cause of

democracy without question period?

[10:30 a.m.]

I can think that…. In recent days, we’ve tried a new technique,

and the government of the day seems to be squirming under the pressures

of Dave Barrett’s legacy. Each morning I rise, go for my run, stop and

look into the sunrise and think: “Thank you, Dave Barrett, for question

period.”

To his family: unforgettable, our deepest respect. Thank

you.

A. Weaver: I rise to pay tribute, on behalf of the B.C. Green caucus, to a

great British Columbian, Dave Barrett, who passed away on February 2 of

this year. I also wish to extend my sincere condolences to his family

gathered in the gallery today.

Dave Barrett dedicated much of his life to the service of British

Columbians. He did so with passion. He did so with commitment. He did so

with integrity. He did so both here in the B.C. Legislature as well as

in the House of Parliament in Ottawa.

Dave Barrett, without a doubt, was one of Canada’s great Premiers.

During his time as Premier, from 1972 to 1975, his government passed a

remarkable 367 bills, averaging one every three days. Much of his legacy

has stood the test of time. His government created ICBC, launched

PharmaCare and passed the human rights code, to name but a few of his

impressive and lasting achievements.

In 1973, British Columbia was faced with sprawling urban

development that threatened to swallow up precious agricultural land,

including some of the best farmland in Canada. It was a challenge, with

opponents down every avenue, and one that a timid political leader would

likely have avoided. Premier Dave Barrett and his government rose to the

challenge through principled and focused leadership.

They preserved Cypress Bowl — what he described as his greatest

legacy. They protected vast swaths of land from developing by creating

the agricultural land reserve, ensuring that future generations would

have access to quality farmland and locally grown food. It was

an act

that angered many in the development community, but it was a bold and

important act that was grounded in the principle of intergenerational

equity.

A great orator. A gregarious individual with a wicked sense of

humour. A man of integrity and principles. A man of the people. These

are but a few of the traits for which he will be remembered.

As a junior high school student in the mid-1970s, Dave Barrett’s

political leadership inspired me. His lasting legacy continues to do

just that each and every day in the Legislature.

As we say goodbye to Premier Barrett, we should collectively

reflect upon his great accomplishments, for it is with leadership like

his that we can continue a build a province that is forward-looking,

innovative and compassionate.

Thank you, Dave Barrett, for all that you did. You will be missed

but never forgotten.

Statements

(Standing Order 25B)

REGULATION OF REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY

L. Throness: As result of a few bad actors in the real estate industry, an

independent advisory group created by the previous government issued a

report and a series of recommendations now being implemented in order to

protect consumers and give a new superintendent more power to

act.

Let’s not underestimate the importance of the real estate industry

to B.C. In 2016, 22,000 realtors sold 112,000 homes worth $78 billion.

For the government, the property transfer tax raised over $2 billion, a

substantial and growing part of provincial revenue.

A real estate transaction is one of the largest most consumers

will make in their lifetime, so consumer protection is vital. The new

regulations see to this. However, the services that industry partners

provide to consumers are also important. In this regard, the new rules

have met with industry dissatisfaction. Many argue that the rules are

complex and the paper burden unnecessary. Rules don’t acknowledge the

legitimate differences between commercial and residential and urban and

rural business, with the unintended consequences that consumers may be

both inconvenienced and underserviced.

A particular sore spot is the virtual banning of dual agency.

While reasonable in most cases, it could hurt the industry, particularly

in rural areas, and restrict the natural desire of consumers to deal

with agents they know and trust, even after full disclosure.

[10:35 a.m.]

Although the superintendent was going to implement the rules in

March, he has wisely decided to consult further and wait until June.

Since cabinet has to ratify the new regulations, I would encourage the

government, as well, to be patient, to listen to bona fide concerns and

make rules protective but also practical, to reduce conflicts without

hobbling legitimate business and, above all, to show the respect that is

due the thousands of real estate agents who are upstanding members of

all of our communities.

ESQUIMALT MILITARY FAMILY

RESOURCE

CENTRE

M. Dean: My constituency is the proud home of Canadian Forces Base

Esquimalt, Canada’s Pacific coast naval base. The Esquimalt Military

Family Resource Centre, MFRC, supports families of the 4,500 military

members who work at CFB Esquimalt. It’s a remarkable organization that

takes care of those who are taking care of us.

This not-for-profit agency has been supporting military families

for 30 years. They’ve learned a lot about the kinds of services that are

most valuable to military families and how to best deliver them.

Military members have jobs that can be very intense and demanding.

Relocation and separation are a fact of military life, and each year 600

military families move in and out of greater Victoria. Families may need

support with deployment stresses, risks associated with the work, crisis

situations and changing family dynamics.

MFRC offers confidential counselling, support services and also

referral and connection to other resources to help these families

thrive. In 2017, they supported families of 2,600 sailors who steamed

345,000 nautical miles. That’s the equivalent to 16 times around the

world. They work with families of 443 Maritime Helicopter Squadron,

located at Pat Bay, and families of land troops deployed to various

locations, such as Egypt, Latvia, Kuwait, Iraq and Israel.

We thank MFRC for their services for military families. By helping

to promote resiliency and life skills, their contribution helps military

members to stay well and helps them focus on their missions, on behalf

of us all.

LIL’WAT NATION

Ts̓zil LEARNING

CENTRE

J. Sturdy: In Mount Currie, the Lil’wat Nation is developing a very

impressive new post-secondary school. The

Ts̓zil Learning Centre is

currently under construction and, when complete, will replace the old

broken-down ATCO trailers that have been used, literally, for decades as

the community’s post-secondary location.

The new Ts̓zil Learning Centre

is a purpose-built facility that will provide accredited post-secondary

education and certified industry skills training to students from

throughout the region. Students from Lil’wat, N’Quatqua, Skatin,

Samahquam, Douglas, Pemberton and Whistler will now have better access

to post-secondary opportunities.

Ts̓zil is operated in

partnership with Capilano University. As well as filling a long-overdue

need for a permanent post-secondary facility, Lil’wat is responding to

the demands of the community for training and job placement. Industry

training programs and the carpentry program recently offered at

Ts̓zil have been well

oversubscribed. Graduates from these programs have easily found work in

Lil’wat, in Pemberton and in Whistler. Moving forward, a priority will

be to build strong relationships with other post-secondary partners in

order to offer more extensive and varied programs.

When complete, the centre will include a modern ishkin ,

or pit house, ceremony space, classrooms, computer labs, study space, a

student lounge and meeting space. The Lil’wat Cultural Centre will also

be an integral part of the facility, connecting students and visitors to

traditional knowledge and cultural expertise.

The learning centre is funded in partnership with Innovation,

Science and Economic Development Canada, and it represents a significant

step in realizing Lil’wat Nation’s vision for the future. The

Ts̓zil Learning Centre is located

on Highway 99 in Mount Currie as you head towards the Duffy Lake Road.

You can’t miss it. It’s worth a stop to see what the future of learning

opportunities are in the north part of the Sea to Sky.

[10:40 a.m.]

COMMERCIAL FISHING INDUSTRY

J. Rice: Commercial fishing is a strong thread in the social fabric that

has held B.C. communities together for generations, but the industry’s

impact is typically evaluated in only dollars and cents, leaving the

wider societal impacts poorly documented and largely underrepresented in

fisheries policy and marine planning. Yet these values are no less

important to the people who make their livings on the sea.

In just one part of the province, the PNCIMA region, where my

constituents and I live, are some of the most valuable fishing areas on

Canada’s Pacific coast. In 2010, the PNCIMA region yielded $415 million

in wholesale value, just over half of the wild-caught marine fisheries’

wholesale value for the entire province.

There’s more to fishing than profit margins. There are economic

ripple effects, as fishermen spend money on equipment and supplies —

fishing revenue spreading throughout the local businesses and local

communities. Fishing also has a role in the gifting and trading of

seafood, and commercial fishing vessels play a key role in this complex

system. One fisherman may give or trade seafood to 100 other people.

This food community also contributes to food security in rural and

remote communities.

These days many fishermen are First Nations. Without the ability

to commercially fish, they would not have the necessary vessels to

exercise their food, social and ceremonial fishing rights, nor have the

ability to feed elders and others in their community. Being a commercial

fishermen is more than just a job. It’s a lifestyle that connects people

to each other, to their communities and to the surrounding

environment.

Mostly, Canadian fisheries policy has been focused on two areas:

economic, measured by landed value, and biological, measured by species

abundance. Research by Ecotrust Canada and the T. Buck Suzuki

Environmental Foundation highlights an opportunity to reframe fisheries

policy that benefits environmental conservatism, economic resilience and

social equity alike.

On the ceilings of this Legislature are paintings of the four

foundational industries of B.C.: mining, forestry, farming and fishing.

I think we can do a better job of supporting our commercial

fishermen.

AGRICULTURE ON SALTSPRING ISLAND

A. Olsen: Agriculture is an important industry in my community and across

our bountiful province. On Saltspring Island, there are hundreds of

farms and over 3,000 hectares in production. There are a wide variety of

crops supported by the rich farmland on the island, much of which can be

sampled and purchased at the famous Saturday Market.

Saltspring Island has also developed an impressive list of local

producers who rely on the agricultural products of the island. It’s a

truly vibrant economy with rewarding jobs, supported by an inspiring

community. Saltspring Island is home to an impressive seed bank,

operated by Salt Spring Seeds; a non-profit abattoir, supporting the

livestock producers of the island; and a cluster of innovative community

farms.

One of those community farms is operated by Salt Spring Island

Farmland Trust, a non-profit organization committed to promoting local

food security. They’ve been an important component of the island’s

agricultural economy over the past ten years. Beyond operating the

Burgoyne Valley Family Community Farm, they run the Shaw Family

Community Gardens and are actively building The Root, a food-processing

and distribution facility that will also offer local food

education.

The projects worked on by the Farmland Trust are models of

community-driven rural development. There is strong dedication from the

farmers in my community, in my riding, to growing food. Farming is hard

work and requires an outstanding level of dedication. That’s why I’m

pleased to see that that the Salt Spring Island Farmland Trust received

a $100,000 grant through the rural dividend program, investing

much-needed resources in further developing the rural agricultural

community on the island — yet another example of how government can

reward the hard work and devotion of incredible organizations in our

community.

ALZHEIMER’S DISEASE AND

WORK OF ALZHEIMER SOCIETY OF

B.C.

A. Kang: I would like to begin talking about Alzheimer Society of B.C. by

reading this short, abridged version of the Alzheimer’s Patient’s

Prayer by Carolyn Haynali, which takes us into the world of an

Alzheimer’s patient:

“Pray for me. I was once like you. Be kind and loving to me. That’s

how I would have treated you. Remember I was once someone’s patient or

spouse. I had a life. I had a dream for the future.

“Think of how I am. My disease distorts my thinking, my feelings and

my ability to respond. But I still love you, even if I can’t tell you….

Think how it would be to have things locked in your mind and you can’t

let them out. I need you to understand and not blame me but

Alzheimer’s.

“Keep me in your prayers, because I am between life and death…. How

you live and what you do today will always be remembered in the heart of

the Alzheimer’s patient.”

[10:45 a.m.]

It gives me great pleasure to speak about the Alzheimer Society of

B.C. and the wonderful work that they are doing in helping to create a

dementia-friendly province in B.C.

In B.C., there are an estimated 70,000 people who are diagnosed

with dementia. Dementia doesn’t just affect the person who is diagnosed

with the debilitating disease but, even more so, his or her family

members. The Alzheimer Society provides support, information and

education for family members, friends and the community. Unfortunately,

stigma is still a major issue for people living with dementia, trying to

live their lives with dignity in the face of a disease that, over time,

relentlessly and progressively destroys the brain.

I’m proud to say that the Ministry of Health is working together

in partnership with the Alzheimer Society of B.C. to provide a

resourceful program called First Link to people affected with dementia

in communities across B.C.

Thank you so much, Alzheimer Society of B.C., for everything that

you do.

Oral Questions

EMPLOYER HEALTH TAX

IMPACTS AND

IMPLEMENTATION

T. Redies: The employer health tax is an unexpected tax grab on everyone,

from small businesses and non-profits to school boards and

municipalities. We have raised example after example in this House of

the negative impact of this new tax.

Will the minister admit that she is wrong?

Hon. C. James: I wouldn’t want to close off the week without talking about how

proud I am that we are eliminating MSP premiums by January 1, 2020 — a

regressive tax. We’re the last province left in this country that has a

regressive tax that hurts businesses, that hurts individuals. Whether

your income was $60,000 or $600,000, you paid the same amount in

MSP.

I am very proud that we are eliminating it. We are bringing in an

employers health tax, as other provinces have done, that protects small

business. On a $500,000 payroll or less, you will not pay it. In fact,

85 percent of businesses in this province will not pay the employers

health tax.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Surrey–White Rock on a supplemental.

T. Redies: According to the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, 93

percent of businesses oppose the new tax. The CFIB estimates that more

than half their small business members will pay the new tax, and they’re

calling for it to be scrapped.

Will the minister admit her error and scrap this tax?

Hon. C. James: I would say to the members across — given that they increased MSP

premiums, more than doubled them, during their time in office: are they

advocating that we not eliminate the tax?

We’re standing up for the people of British Columbia and

eliminating medical service premiums. Perhaps the member could tell us

where she believes we’re going to provide the support for health care.

We are bringing in a balanced approach. We are bringing in an employers

health tax, eliminating MSP premiums and supporting British

Columbians.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Surrey–White Rock on a second

supplemental.

T. Redies: Well, replacing one regressive tax with another regressive tax is

not progress.

For over two weeks now, small business owners across the province

have been talking to us about the new NDP tax. They are all saying the

same thing. This will impact their livelihoods, and it will lead to job

losses.

When will the minister admit she was wrong and end this attack on

small business?

Hon. C. James: Hon. Speaker, $1.3 billion of savings, with a 50 percent cut of

MSP premiums this January, this year. An employers health tax, where 85

percent of businesses, because they are small businesses, will be

protected. Five percent of businesses will pay the full amount on the

employers health tax.

[10:50 a.m.]

That is bringing in a tax that supports families, that supports

small businesses, that ensures we have the resources to provide a

good-quality health care system and provide savings of $900 for

individuals and $1,800 for families. Those are savings that’ll be in

their pocket to spend in small businesses in our communities and keep

our economy going.

S. Bond: On Monday, the Minister of Finance was pressed about possible

exemptions to the employer health tax and responded that she would be

having discussions about this. On Tuesday, she ruled out any exemptions,

saying: “You’ll find they remain paying the health tax.” The minister’s

own words are causing confusion and frustration across the

province.

A very simple yes-or-no question to the minister: will there be

exemptions?

Hon. C. James: We have said to school districts, to others who are raising

questions, that the reason we are implementing the tax a year later is

that we have an opportunity to ensure that the transition is smooth. We

will continue those discussions, as I’ve said, and we will ensure that

by 2020 the savings will be there for everyone when it comes to the

elimination of the MSP premiums.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Prince George–Valemount on a

supplemental.

S. Bond: The only thing we know for sure is that the tax was, apparently,

poorly designed, rushed out the door to be included in the budget,

against even the minister’s own — the minister’s own — MSP Task Force.

Adding to the confusion, yesterday the Premier weighed in. He said that

groups would be “kept whole.”

To the Finance Minister, exactly which groups will be kept

whole?

Hon. C. James: I’d say to the member across and all the members across: I’m not

sure what you dislike about getting rid of medical service premiums —

the last province left in this country. I’m not sure what you don’t like

about savings for individuals and businesses and families across this

province that will happen when we eliminate medical service premiums. We

are getting rid of a regressive tax. We are going to provide support. It

happens one year from now. We will ensure a smooth transition, and those

are the discussions that are going on.

PROTECTION AND MANAGEMENT OF

WILD SALMON AND

STEELHEAD

A. Olsen: Every question we asked this week was about steelhead and wild

salmon. We haven’t received straight answers to our questions, but we’ve

learned a lot. We learned that six distinct ministries, in addition to a

federal department, are all co-managing the Interior Fraser steelhead to

extinction. There appears to be jurisdictional confusion about who is

doing what for salmon.

I don’t doubt this government’s commitment to wild salmon, but I

wonder about their ability to make concrete changes when it appears it

is being managed off the side of everyone’s desk.

Salmon are resilient. In the Saanich culture, they are our

relatives. The health and wellness requires a different relationship,

one that we clearly do not yet comprehend.

Given the fact that everybody seems to be in charge, I’d like to

direct my question to the Premier. Will your government consider

creating a wild salmon commissioner or secretariat to unite and

streamline the work being done by government to protect our wild salmon

and steelhead relatives?

Hon. J. Horgan: I thank the member for Saanich North and the Islands for the

question. He has, I think, characterized fairly effectively the

challenge that all of us have in British Columbia with co-management of

our iconic salmon species, whether they be steelhead, whether they be

chum, whether they be chinook, coho, sockeye and the like. But that

challenge didn’t just arrive, hon. Member, as you know, and that

challenge will take some time to figure out.

We are working tirelessly on this side of the House, and we have

been saying repeatedly to questions, able questions from the Green Party

and from those on the other side…. Everyone in British Columbia

understands the importance of salmon, not just to our people but to our

land. We are going to do our level best to get through the red tape, to

understand what Ottawa’s plans are for our salmon species. And we’re

going to do our level best to make sure that at the end of the day, the

people of British Columbia can have confidence that all levels of

government are working in a coordinated way to realize the objective

that the member just recognized.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Saanich North and the Islands on a

supplemental.

[10:55 a.m.]

A. Olsen: Thank you, Mr. Premier, for the answer.

We’ve heard a lot of words spoken this week. What we’re proposing,

with the line of questioning and with the suggestion that I made in my

initial question, is action. I think that it’s a reasonable request that

we make of government. When we needed action on climate, we created a

secretariat. When we needed to address issues of conflicts of interest,

we created a commissioner.

These are examples of where we’ve got multiple ministries working

on their files, their distinct files, and we need action across

government. That’s why today we are asking the government and suggesting

to the government to consider creating a wild salmon secretariat or a

commissioner that could do very similar work to bring together, to

streamline, all the work that’s being done. That would require adequate

funding, of course.

I ask my question, again, to the Premier: would your government

consider such a secretariat to coordinate the effort, as he so ably

described in his answer to the first question?

Hon. J. Horgan: Again, I appreciate the passion of the member. I know it’s

genuine.

In the 1990s, the government of the day created what was called

fisheries renewal B.C. to do just what the member has suggested. We need

to address habitat restoration upstream. We need to have spawning beds

in place so that our salmon have a place to come back to.

There is no shortage of work being done by the minister

responsible for Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations. The

Minister of Agriculture has a role to play as well. I, too, in the

intergovernmental relations side, have a role to play with our federal

government. I have done the best I can to break through with the federal

government so that they can understand that this is not just about

scientists in Ottawa. It’s about people in coastal communities. It’s

about people who live up the Fraser, people who live up the Nechako,

people who live up the Skeena and everywhere in between.

Salmon are British Columbia. The member’s passion is absolutely

well placed, and we are going do our level best, working with all sides

of this House, to ensure that when we finish our time in this place,

salmon are better off than they were when we arrived.

IMPACT OF EMPLOYER HEALTH TAX

BUSINESSES

J. Isaacs: My constituent Lisa employs 60 staff between her chain of

Tri-Cities-based cafés and bakeries. As an inclusive employer, Lisa is

proud to employ several staff on the autism spectrum. The NDP’s new tax

will cost Lisa an extra $6,000 a year.

I’d like to quote what Lisa wrote to me. “This $6,000 may seem

small, but it isn’t to a family-run business. We will be forced to

re-evaluate employment of some of our team members.”

Does the Minister of Finance think that Lisa should raise her

prices for customers, or should she lay off hard-working employees to

pay for this new tax?

Hon. C. James: If businesses have been paying medical service premiums, as school

districts and other employers have, there is a savings by eliminating 50

percent of the MSP premiums in January of this year. Those are savings

that remain with businesses, that remain with school districts, that

remain with other employers. When the employers health tax comes into

play, we will ensure — again, as I’ve said — that discussions happen to

make sure the transition is smooth. And there will be full savings in

2020 by eliminating medical service premiums completely.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Coquitlam–Burke Mountain on a

supplemental.

J. Isaacs: I’d like to quote Lisa further. She says: “We are not talking

about CEOs with million-dollar salaries. We’re talking about families

working seven days a week to put food on the table and pay for their

mortgage — and, in our case, afford to pay for the therapy for our

daughter who has autism.”

Again, to the minister: will she admit that this new tax will hurt

businesses and family businesses like Lisa’s?

Hon. C. James: I will say, again, that whether it was businesses or whether it

was families or whether it was employers, the call to eliminate medical

service premiums came from across the board. It was a regressive tax. It

was difficult to administer. Businesses that I talked to talk about the

nightmare and the challenge of trying to administer that tax.

[11:00 a.m.]

We are eliminating it, and as other provinces have done, we are

looking at an employers health tax to ensure we can provide services and

be fiscally responsible. The transition will happen over this next year,

and the full elimination will happen in 2020.

IMPACT OF EMPLOYER HEALTH TAX

ON POST-SECONDARY

INSTITUTIONS

M. Hunt: It’s not just family businesses that are going to be affected by

this double-dipping tax. It’s universities too. Simon Fraser University

operates a campus in my community, and they’ll be facing an almost $7

million tax bill.

My question is to the Minister of Advanced Education. Is there $7

million in her budget to cover this shortfall for this double-dipping

tax?

Hon. C. James: I find it extraordinary that now this other side cares about

education all of a sudden, after 16 years of ignoring the pressures on

education, ignoring the pressures for students.

I would remind the member across that medical services premiums

were reduced by 50 percent on January 1. Those are savings to

universities, to school districts, to employers, which they will get to

use this year. We will be bringing in the employer health tax. We will

be eliminating medical services premiums in 2020. That, again, will be a

benefit to universities, to school districts and to employers who’ve

been paying medical services premiums.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Surrey-Cloverdale on a supplemental.

M. Hunt: I’m known in my community for being a strong supporter of both

Simon Fraser University and Kwantlen Polytechnic University. They’re in

my community, and they are having to pay this unexpected tax increase.

The programs are going to impact Kwantlen Polytech and other

post-secondary institutions, as a result of these significant

shortfalls.

My question is, again, to the Minister of Advanced Education. Is

she going to force Kwantlen to cut student supports to pay this new

tax?

Hon. C. James: I will remind the member, again, that there’s a 50 percent saving

— for universities, for school districts and for businesses who have

been paying medical services premiums — that they are receiving this

year and that they will be able to utilize.

IMPACT OF EMPLOYER HEALTH TAX

ON SCHOOL

DISTRICTS

T. Stone: Last fall the Minister of Education’s response, over and over, to

funding questions from the Kamloops-Thompson school district was: “Stay

tuned for Budget 2018.” However, the only thing he has delivered with

this budget is the downloading of the NDP’s new employer health tax on

school districts. For the Kamloops-Thompson school district, this will

increase their annual health benefit cost by almost 14

percent.

To the Minister of Education, is he really going to force school

district 73 to cut a quarter of a million dollars out of classrooms to

pay for the NDP’s new payroll tax?

Hon. R. Fleming: Thank you very much to the member for the question.

The reality is that Kamloops-Thompson school district this year is

going to realize hundreds of thousands of dollars of additional savings

from the cutting, by 50 percent, of the MSP, which they get to keep.

We’ve talked to superintendents. We’ve talked to school board chairs

across the province. We’ve said: “Keep that money. Invest it in

classroom resources. Invest it in learning resources for kids.” They are

doing that.

The budget that’s before the House is the largest single

investment in K-to-12 education in the province’s history. We’re proud

of that budget. It’s going to do good things for that member’s district.

It’s the largest capital budget in B.C. history for schools.

I know that that member never mentioned capital once when he was

in the cabinet. He never mentioned it in Hansard . Now he’s

asking the NDP to build schools in his riding, and we’re working with

his district to do just that.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Kamloops–South Thompson on a

supplemental.

T. Stone: Well, the minister’s bluster might make for good theatre in here,

but the folks up in Kamloops, and British Columbians, aren’t buying it.

The fact of the matter is that this government is going to impose a $70

million new cost onto school districts through this employer health

tax.

[11:05 a.m.]

After eight months in office, the minister has failed to deliver

on his promises and instead is imposing this new tax — a $250,000 annual

hit to the school district budget in my community up in Kamloops. This

is what the minister actually said on June 19, 2016: “Unfunded cost

pressures are downloaded onto them, so you have districts who, for the

sake of saving a few hundred thousand dollars, are turning the heat and

the lights off at a school.”

My question to the minister is this. Is the minister going to

force school districts to turn the heat and the lights off to pay for

this new NDP payroll tax?

Hon. R. Fleming: It’s such a ridiculous question, especially coming from this

member, you know? When you look at what this….

Interjections.

Hon. R. Fleming: This member sat at the cabinet table. He voted ten times over the

last 16 years to raise MSP. He doubled MSP. He downloaded that cost onto

the school districts, and he won’t acknowledge that this year school

districts are getting a break. The MSP has been cut by 50 percent, and

they’re keeping the money in the school sector where it belongs so we

can educate our students better.

I’ve got to say, again, that we’re working with districts right

across the province on fixing years of neglect, maintenance neglect and

new school pressures that are in their districts. His district has been

working with my ministry on it. Hopefully, we’ll have an announcement

that will do something that never happened for 16 years: make an

investment in schools in Kamloops-Thompson.

IMPACT OF EMPLOYER HEALTH TAX

BUSINESSES

J. Thornthwaite: Zazou Hair Salon and Academy in North Vancouver is no different

from most hair salons in that its stylists work on a commission basis.

Its co-owner, Bruce Peters, feels completely cornered by the NDP’s

employer health tax.

Question. Does the Minister of Finance think that Bruce should

raise prices for customers or cut the commissions of his hard-working

employees?

Hon. C. James: I have to say, again, that to hear questions about concerns about

eliminating medical services premiums, when this side had more than

doubled MSP premiums and didn’t show any regard for the pressures that

businesses face, that individuals face, that school districts

face….

We are bringing in an employer health tax. Businesses $500,000 or

less in their payroll will not pay the employer health tax, and 85

percent of businesses will be exempt, to support small businesses.

Businesses between $500,000 and $1.5 million will only pay a portion.

It’s only the top businesses, those that make more than $1.5 million in

payroll, that will pay the full employer health tax.

In the meantime, families will be saving up to $800 a year.

Individuals will be saving, and those dollars will be spent back in the

community in small businesses.

Mr. Speaker: North Vancouver–Seymour on a supplemental.

J. Thornthwaite: Nothing that the minister has said actually helps Bruce pay the

new NDP tax. Bruce also knows he can’t raise prices without losing

clients, just like he can’t reduce commission without losing employees.

In the words of Bruce: “That’s insane. Why are they penalizing

us?”

Again, to the minister, will she admit that her new tax will hurt

workers and local businesses like Zazou Hair Salon and

Academy?

Hon. C. James: I will let the member and the members across the way know that we,

as a government, are proud to do what that side never did, which is

eliminate medical services premiums in 2020. We are proud that we

lowered the small business tax to support businesses in September’s

budget. We are proud that we reduced PST on electricity by 50 percent,

and in 2019, we’ll eliminate PST on electricity for businesses,

supporting investment in our province.

[11:10 a.m.]

AIR AMBULANCE FEE FOR

WILDFIRE

EVACUEE

D. Barnett: My constituent Rudolf Dunst is 90 years old. He and his

87-year-old wife live near Lone Butte. Due to the wildfires last summer,

he was forced to evacuate to Whitehorse, where he had a place to stay.

He then required an emergency heart procedure and was airlifted to

Vancouver via Yukon Air. Mr. Dunst is now told he needs to pay $20,000

for the flight.

To the Minister of Health, the fires have caused enough hardship

for this family. Will he pay this $20,000 ambulance bill?

Hon. A. Dix: Thanks very much to the member for her question. She and, I think,

the family have brought the case to our attention, and we’ll be

reviewing it with the family in the coming days.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Cariboo-Chilcotin on a supplemental.

D. Barnett: Thank you to the minister, but the response I and Mr. Dunst have

received is that the ministry will not pay this outrageous bill and help

this family.

Minister, I sincerely hope that at the end of the day, this is a

resolution that will satisfy these seniors, who are in dire straits and

stressed to the limit.

Hon. A. Dix: I think everybody knows — and, certainly, people involved in

health care in the Cariboo know — the impact on everybody, people who

worked in health care. Everyone had to move. I know the member knows

this, knows that at the most difficult moments of the fire, mental

health workers were going door to door to find the people that they

worked with in the community.

I think, as a province and as a health system, we responded very

well to that situation. Recently, and I know that the member has

supported this, it’s why we’ve invested significantly in Cariboo

Memorial Hospital and the capital project that had been waiting,

frankly, a long time for approval.

I share the member’s concern for people in the region, for the

health impacts of people in the region. I think one of the things,

really, the excellent CEO of Interior Health, who is retiring but worked

very closely on these questions, has acknowledged with staff and

everyone in the region is that the impact of the fire was so

significant, in both specific cases and in the cases of others, that we

haven’t seen the full consequences of it yet in health terms.

We have to be conscious of that and work on that, and I think

people in Interior Health are doing that. I know I’m very concerned with

that. I’m going back again and again to the region to ensure that

services are there.

The case that she brings to my attention has been brought to my

attention. I’m reviewing it, and I look forward to getting back in touch

with the family.

IMPACT OF EMPLOYER HEALTH TAX

ON SCHOOL

DISTRICTS

J. Tegart: This week the president of the B.C. School Trustees Association

warned that the employer health tax will negatively impact every school

district, and it’s the students who will feel it most.

To the Minister of Education, is there money in the budget to

cover their new NDP employer health tax, yes or no?

Hon. R. Fleming: Thank you to the member for the question. What school district

leaders and the president of the B.C. School Trustees Association

understand is that there’s a $15 million savings that every district

gets to keep in this budget, Budget 2018 that is before the

House.

We’ve said that the 50 percent cut to MSP should go to priorities

in their school districts that they would like to fund, whether it’s a

district literacy coordinator, additional education assistants or

additional district teachers — whatever that may be, improve learning

conditions with that savings. That’s part of a $60 million savings

package that has been returned to school districts.

I would remind the member, too, that Budget 2018, over and above

what we tabled three months ago in the fall, has an additional $135

million of funding for schools, for education in British

Columbia.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Fraser-Nicola on a supplemental.

J. Tegart: This is what the president of the B.C. School Trustees Association

said: “It’s going to cost every district, and they are going to have to

decide what they’re not going to invest in and what they are going to

cut from programming.”

What program does the minister think school districts should

cut?

[11:15 a.m.]

Hon. R. Fleming: I find it…. I don’t know if it’s refreshing or completely

baffling. We have an opposition now that spent 16 years ripping billions

of dollars out of the education system, that fired thousands of teachers

and took them out of the classrooms, declined resources for special

needs learners in our province and took British Columbia from the

second-best-funded school system in the country to the

second-worst.

Our government has handed in hundreds of millions of dollars of

new funding, and still they try and come up with something to say. Their

record is known throughout the province. That government fought

teachers, parents and school districts for over a decade. They have

nothing to say, quite frankly, on the issue of making investments in

kids. Our government tabled a budget last week that invests hundreds of

millions of dollars into the school system, that has the largest capital

budget in British Columbia’s history.

We’re working with our partners, the B.C. School Trustees

Association, to drive improvements in the school system each and every

day. That’s the conversation we’re having with school leaders, and we’ll

continue to do that.

E. Foster: The Vernon school district is facing a serious deficit as a result

of the new employer health tax. In 2018-19 alone, it will cost them an

extra $450,000.

To the Minister of Education, is there an additional $450,000 in

the budget for the school district to pay the new NDP employer tax, yes

or no?

Hon. R. Fleming: I would encourage the member to actually go and look at the

savings that will be returned to the Vernon school district this year.

It’s hundreds of thousands of dollars in the MSP alone, but that’s part

of a $60 million savings package. There are pension overcontributions,

and we’ve said to the school district: “Keep those funds.” We’ve saved

$10 million for school districts by lowering broadband Internet service.

We’ve said: “Put that into classrooms for learning resources for

kids.”

Now, this member voted for a lot of B.C. Liberal budgets. He has

been here a long time, and many of those had MSP increases that never

compensated school districts. I’m glad he’s found his voice now. He has

never spoken about education, to my knowledge, on issues like

this.

We’ve got the largest budget in B.C. history to fund schools

before the Legislature right now. I’d encourage that member to vote for

it because it’s good for Vernon.

[End of question period.]

Point of Privilege

(Reservation of Right)

J. Rustad: I rise to reserve my right to raise a point of privilege.

Orders of the Day

Hon. M. Farnworth: I call continued debate on the budget until about quarter to

[11:20 a.m.]

[R. Chouhan in the chair.]

Budget Debate

(continued)

Hon. M. Mungall: I rise to continue my remarks from yesterday on what can only be

described as a truly amazing, incredible budget that the Minister of Finance

delivered on February 20. I am just so eager to support this budget for all

the good things that we find in it, including…. I’ve already spoken to the

historic investments in child care, the historic investments in housing and

actually solving the problems that British Columbians in every single corner

of this province have identified in terms of their ability to actually

afford life in this province. We are taking that on. We’re taking that on

with gusto, and we’re going to be delivering on these historic investments

for British Columbians.

I also do want to talk to some of the budget items that are going to

be impacting some of the businesses and some of the programs that are

associated with my ministry. Now, you’ll recall that in the budget update in

September, we lowered the small business tax rate to 2 percent. I just want

to acknowledge that that savings that small businesses are going to

experience impacts a lot of the small businesses that are in the mining

sector. There are small businesses that are associated with the oil and gas

sector as well as the energy sector. That savings allows them to put those

dollars, reinvest them, back into their businesses and to continue to

thrive.

We also see in this budget that we have a $4 million lift to our

energy side of the ministry. That’s for the energy road map. We have

committed, as part of this government, to look into the future and make sure

that we’re able to meet our future energy needs. How we’re going to be able

to do that in terms of greening our economy even further, making sure that

we’re reducing our impact on climate change, reducing our carbon emissions

and all of that is incredibly important to the goals that we want to

achieve, not just as a government but as a society. In terms of our

environmental responsibilities, how we consume energy and what we’re able to

do to heat our homes, to turn on our lights, to drive in our

communities….

Speaking of driving, I want to also acknowledge that in the budget

update of September 27, we continued with the $40 million investment in the

clean energy vehicle program. That investment was a one-time fund to be

disbursed over several years, and that program continues on. Of course,

looking at how we transition more and how we can incentivize our communities

and people in our communities to move to zero-emission vehicles is part of

that energy road map that I was talking about.

I also wanted to touch on some of the good news that’s going to be

happening in my local area, particularly around post-secondary education.

The good news here is that we’re going to be seeing some funding go to the

trades programs in both College of the Rockies as well as Selkirk College.

We’re going to see new state-of-the-art, modern trades facilities opening up

as a result of funding that is being provided by government so that young

people — well, people of any age, young and young at heart — can identify

careers that they’re interested in, in the trades. They can get the training

they need so they can get those good, family-supporting jobs that are

associated with the trades.

I’m also very proud that we’re continuing on with the free tuition for

people when we first announced that we were taking tuition off of these

programs back in September, in 2017. I’ve heard from so many people since

then how this has made such a difference in their lives. That we are

continuing that on, I think, is really important.

[11:25 a.m.]

I think it is part of our broader view of making sure that people have

the education so that they can access the opportunities not just for today

but well into the future; so that they can enjoy good wages, they can have

good jobs, and they can be able to provide for their families.

I have already mentioned and have talked extensively about the student

housing that’s going to be very important for both post-secondary

institutions in the Kootenays. I’m very pleased to see that our housing

program includes funding for student housing. That’ll include, of course,

both Selkirk College and College of the Rockies.

Another point around housing that I didn’t get to yesterday and I

really want to highlight, especially for those who are in rural areas, is

this government’s plan for a housing hub. We want to see our partners in

non-profits and faith-based and local governments succeed in their plans for

affordable housing, and we need to be working together to make sure that

success is realized. That’s exactly why we have instituted a housing hub. I

know that in conversations already with the non-profits in my area, they are

looking forward to this housing hub so that they can be working directly

with government to make sure that we have the affordable housing units that

we so desperately need in our communities.

Some people might be surprised to hear that in a community as small as

Kaslo, affordable housing is an issue, but it absolutely is. As I mentioned

yesterday, the affordability crisis that has been the epicentre in the Lower

Mainland ripples out all throughout the province and has impacted my riding,

most certainly.

Another point I want to make for the viewers back in the Kootenays who

are watching is the Kootenay Lake ferry. This is how many, many people are

able to connect with one another across Kootenay Lake. We like to boast that

it’s the longest free ferry ride in the world. It’s one of the most

beautiful ferry rides, if you ask me. There’s just nothing better than, on a

summer day, going across Kootenay Lake on the ferry and looking up at that

beautiful clear blue sky and all the Kootenay mountains backdropping that

sky. It truly is amazing.

One of the things that is a legacy of the B.C. Liberals is reduced

hours and reduced service on Kootenay Lake as well as an older vessel, the

MV Balfour.

This government is going to be supporting a new vessel on Kootenay

Lake. We’re going to be seeing a new ferry, and we have already started

consultations. We’re very happy to be actually consulting with the people

who are going to be most impacted by this ferry use, in terms of what kind

of service and what kind of vessel they want to see on their

lake.

For those watching at home, for all the details on the consultation

process, please contact my office. We’d be happy to make sure that you’re

connected with that process so that you can have your voice

heard.

I want to touch on one final item before…. I know my time is going to

come to a close. It is something I’m very proud of in this budget, and

there’s so much. It’s a long, long list, so I’ve shortened it as best as I

possibly can. It’s the $50 million that we are going to be investing in the

revitalization of Indigenous languages.

Somebody I truly respect and admire, elder Chris Luke, is a former

chief of Yaqan Nukiy, and he is the holder of grizzly bear spirit for the

Ktunaxa Nation. He is one of 22 fluent speakers in the Ktunaxa language.

Like so many other Indigenous languages, their ability to ensure that their

language is passed on well into the future is very challenged.

Language is imperative to culture. It is a cornerstone of culture.

It’s a cornerstone of identity, of knowing who you are, of celebrating the

traditions of your people and of being able to look into the future with

pride. The residential school system left a terrible, horrific legacy in so

many ways. Stripping language and culture from children was absolutely

deplorable.

[11:30 a.m.]

In an era of reconciliation, a government has the responsibility to

work with First Nations in terms of what they need to rebuild their

languages, to rebuild their cultures, to rebuild their sense of identity so

that they are rooted in pride, so that they’re able to heal their

communities and move forward in a way to enjoy prosperity and address the

poverty that exists in their communities.

I’ve heard comments in this House that saw that this $50 million was

not a good expenditure. I completely disagree. I also found those comments

very disheartening — that in this day and age, in this era of

reconciliation, somebody in this House would not understand the value of

investing in Indigenous languages, revitalizing those languages and working

with First Nations to revitalize their culture and their sense of

identity.

I know….

Interjection.

Hon. M. Mungall: I see that woke up another member from the opposition. I’m not going

to pay attention to his heckles, because I think this issue deserves a bit

more respect than that.

Let me say that I know that the school, the Yaqan Nukiy school, and

the schools and the culture and language programs throughout school district

8 are going to be very thrilled to be able to access increased support for

their language programs so that First Nations children and Aboriginal

children are able to learn, understand and speak their traditional

languages.

I am so immensely proud of this budget, and I am so immensely proud of

the work that the Minister of Finance has done and that the Premier has done

and that all members of the government caucus have done to bring this budget

together. We are making a true difference in the lives of British

Columbians. We are making sure lives are affordable. We are building a

better B.C.

I look forward to being able to stand and rise in support of this

budget and make sure that my constituents’ dreams, voices, desires and needs

in this province are met.

T. Redies: I’ve been asked by my colleagues in the B.C. Liberal caucus to wrap up

this budget debate before we gather to vote shortly on the 2018

budget.

Before I do, I’d like to express a deep appreciation to the people of

Surrey–White Rock, who I represent, and also to my two highly capable

constituency assistants, Anne Bonner and Effie Psiharis, for all of their

hard work on behalf of the community.

The provincial budget is probably the most important tool that the

government has to shape our province. Actions we take today through the

budget process can have significant ramifications, both positive and

negative, for families and businesses for now and well into the

future.

Now, I know this government wants to help British Columbians,

particularly at the margin, and I’m certain this is true of all members of

this House. But I do believe that one of the tasks of government is to

determine how we can make the pie bigger so that every British Columbian has

the potential to fulfil his or her potential.

That being said, there’s a very fine balancing act between spending to

help those less fortunate and providing needed government services, and

overly taxing individuals who work hard to earn their money and businesses

who are the main job creators of our province. If businesses are taxed and

regulated to the point where operating in a jurisdiction is too onerous and

uneconomic, the very people and entities who generate the lion’s share of

tax revenue leave in search of more favourable tax regimes.

Now, today in B.C., talking with the B.C. Business Council, we’re

already starting to see a deceleration of job growth in the province of B.C.

The planned $5½ billion incremental taxation that this government is

introducing with this budget will be borne 70 percent by the business

sector, the job creators of this province. They are very worried. This is

not me fearmongering. It’s the members of the B.C. Business Council, some of

the biggest employers, who are starting to feel so pressed that they are

reconsidering investment decisions or expansion in British

Columbia.

Imprudent and unchecked spending and taxation by government only has

one ending. We’ve seen it in jurisdictions all over the world. The results

are not pretty. Economies go into decline or recession, people lose jobs,

businesses leave town, and ultimately, severe cuts happen to social

services. I don’t want to see that happen to our province again.

[11:35 a.m.]

It would seem to me, based on this budget, that this government thinks

they have a golden goose that will always lay eggs. That’s fantasy in

itself. It never, never works with economies. There are natural life cycles

of economies, and arguably, we are at the top of that cycle with four or

five years of three-plus GDP growth increases, even before the government

started its current spending spree.

I very much fear that government is spending at a rate far above what

will be sustainable as this cycle comes down. We’re still actually setting

in place policies that will sink growth and job creation even faster, and

not a plan in sight to grow the economy other than government

spending.

The official opposition is deeply concerned with the sustainability of

the government’s spending plan. In four short years, this government plans

to increase spending by $9 billion, a compounded annual growth rate of 5

percent or more per year. That’s well above the rates of inflation. This is

even far more than the $5½ billion in new taxation. Yet in the past seven

months, this government has continued to implement billions and billions of

dollars of new taxation so they can fund profligate spending.

All of this money has to come from somewhere, and 70 percent of the

incremental tax increases will be on the backs of businesses, the true

sustainable job creators of this province. On budget day, the private sector

received quite a shock with the introduction of the employer health tax. To

quote Jock Finlayson of the B.C. Business Council, the brand-new payroll tax

came as a “nasty surprise.” We in the official opposition were taken aback

too.

The new employer health tax shifts responsibility for our health care

system directly onto the private sector. Now companies large and small will

start paying a new tax based not on their income but on the size of their

payroll.

Yesterday the Canadian Federation of Independent Business weighed in

on this punitive payroll tax. CFIB warned the Finance Minister in a

prebudget meeting that small and medium-sized businesses do not support

using a payroll tax to replace MSP revenues. The CFIB asked the opinion of

its own members, and not surprisingly, 93 percent of business owners oppose

the payroll tax.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

The vice-president of CFIB, Richard Truscott, had this to say. “The

new payroll tax is poorly designed and will have a big impact for many small

businesses. The government should scrap the tax or at least go back to the

drawing board and make it much more small-business-friendly.”

This leads us to the next contentious aspect of the employer health

tax — the layering of one tax over another. The business community will be

hit by the employer health tax starting in 2019, but many of those companies

are already paying MSP premiums on behalf of their employees, and the

government will continue to collect MSP until 2020. So they are double

dipping. It will also result in a whopping $1.8 billion windfall for the

government when it collects both taxes at the same time.

Mr. Truscott, with the CFIB, had this to say about the double-dipping

tax grab. “This new tax is a double whammy for business owners. This

doubling up is doubly wrong. The new tax should not take effect until the

MSP premiums are totally phased out.”

It’s not just businesses that will be subjected to double taxation

through the employer health tax, as we’ve learned this week. Charities,

municipalities and all other parts of the public sector will also be charged

this punitive tax. This will force many charities and large non-profits to

make some difficult choices. It will lead to higher property taxes on

homeowners.

To add to the confusion, the Premier and Finance Minister sent out

conflicting messages on the new payroll tax. The Finance Minister said the

government will not consider any exemptions, but now the Premier is saying

that these organizations will somehow be kept whole.

How is the government going to do that? The public sector alone

accounts for 20 to 25 percent of the payroll in this province. Exempting the

public sector alone would put a $1 billion hole into this government’s

three-year plan and a $120 million hole for the first year alone. This

speaks to the competency of this government.

I’d also like to speak a bit about the interventions this government

is taking in the real estate market. Today we have three levels of

government all intervening in the real estate market with little

coordination. As someone who has spent a lot of time financing homes for

people, I’m very concerned about the potential impact of all three

governments intervening in the market. While the goal is laudable — to bring

down housing and make it more affordable, especially for young people — the

speculation tax this government is introducing is untried.

[11:40 a.m.]

Under the

section entitled “Curbing demand” in the Finance Minister’s

budget speech, she uses strong language in reference to B.C.’s real estate

market. “We’re cracking down on speculators who distort our market. We will

introduce a new speculation tax, starting in B.C.’s urban areas. It will tax

foreign and domestic speculators.”

According to the Minister of Finance, there are two culprits

responsible for distorting real estate values in B.C. now: one foreign and

one domestic. As a Canadian, I have real concern with the respect to the

latter.

This policy has implications far and wide. My biggest concern is that

we could start to see a market decline in our housing market. I think we all

should remember that over the last ten years, we’ve seen what happens when

housing markets go into significant decline. It’s not pretty.

The Bank of Canada has estimated that a 25 percent price drop would

put one in four homeowners in Metro Vancouver underwater, which means that

property would be worth less than the mortgage on it.

Cameron Muir, the chief economist of the B.C. Real Estate Association,

had this to say about the Finance Minister’s plan to lower the value of

homes in B.C. “I can’t imagine a government telling homebuyers who bought a

home in the last year that we are purposely trying to put you

underwater.”

Mr. Muir went on to say: “I’m fully in favour of having prices grow at

a lower rate. Ideally, you want home prices to grow at or near the price of

inflation…. If home prices were arbitrarily driven downward by government

policy, there are large consequences to that in the marketplace, including

builders pulling back on production, so you’ll end up with another supply

crunch down the road, as well as you impact the overall economy.”

This government’s budget depends on a growing economy. If that economy

doesn’t grow, if the real estate market sees major corrections and the

construction industry throttles down, it’s not only homeowners that will be

underwater. It will be this government with their budget.

The strength of our economy comes from the hard work of our people.

From small start-ups to businesses, small and large, the private sector is

the primary source of jobs in our province. Government best serves the

interests of people when it creates the right conditions for businesses to

flourish. That means keeping taxes low. It means building the roads and

bridges through which commerce flows.

Government should not stand in the way of business to create jobs in

our economy. This happens when you weigh down the private sector with layer

upon layer of taxes.

There’s a line in the closing paragraph of the throne speech that

really marks a difference between the government and the official

opposition. It says that “government can transform lives.” But I think that

is self-serving and misleading. It’s individuals, entrepreneurs and

businesses that transform lives.

Therefore, to me, our role as MLAs is quite clear. Give our children

the best start in life. Give them a great education so they can think for

themselves. Encourage a strong private sector that produces good jobs for

our young people. And if just given this opportunity, this new generation

will transform the future on their own. To me, that is the true opportunity

of government and the future we need for our province.

Hon. C. James: I rise to make closing remarks on the debate on the budget. I first

want to say how much I appreciate the comments of all members in this House

on the budget. I certainly didn’t agree with all of them, and I’ll talk

about a couple of those. But that is democracy.

Democracy is an opportunity for us to have that kind of debate. I

appreciate all of the members who took

part in the discussion and in the

debate and put their issues forward and talked about their communities and

the pieces that they either agree or disagree with, or both, in the budget.

I think that’s, as I said, a strong part of democracy.

I want to express my appreciation to staff — to the staff in the

Ministry of Finance, to the staff in my office. It has been an extraordinary

transition when you think of seven months and two budgets within a

seven-month time period. I tell my colleagues I think I’m one of the

best-served by the staff in the Ministry of Finance. But I know that the

ministry staff in all ministries have provided us that kind of

support.

To my staff, to the staff in my office, I want to say how much I

appreciate the work that they did to assist us in bringing forward a budget.

To the staff in my constituency office, who don’t see me as often as they

used to, I appreciate them holding down the home fort as well.

[11:45 a.m.]

I’m very proud to have tabled this budget, which truly is a budget

that is balanced in approach and balanced fiscally. That really is a key in

bringing forward this budget. I talk about the three priorities that we have

in government — to increase affordability for individuals in our province;

to improve services that people rely on; and to build a strong, sustainable

economy with jobs in every corner of this province. That is what this budget

is put together to do.

Historic investments in child care and in housing. Those are

investments not simply for the people of British Columbia, supporting

affordability; those are investments for business as well.

I think it’s important to recognize that there were businesses,

organizations, chambers of commerce, boards of trade and municipalities who

came forward to say how much we needed investments in affordability for

housing and child care, to deal with recruitment and retention, to help

businesses with being able, in a strong labour market, to keep employees and

attract employees.

I know the member on the other side talked about the housing

initiatives that we took and her disagreement with some of the directions

that we’re taking. Well, we’re taking direction. There are bold moves in

this budget, no question. But that’s what’s needed for a housing market that

is unaffordable and that has brought speculation and other issues into the

market. That’s what our 30-point plan is looking to do.

As I said, I am very proud to have a budget that is there to make a

difference for the people who help build our strong economy, and that’s the

people of British Columbia, the small businesses, the investors. All of our

province needs to work together to make sure that the wealth of our province

continues to benefit every British Columbian. That’s what this budget is

destined to do.

With that, again, I thank the members for the debate. I thank them for

the discussion.

I move, seconded by the hon. Premier of British Columbia, that the

Speaker now do leave the chair for the House to go into Committee of

Supply.

[11:50 a.m.]

Mr. Speaker: Members, the question is that the Speaker do now leave the chair for

the House go into Committee of Supply.

Motion approved on the following division:

YEAS — 44

Chouhan

Kahlon

Begg

Brar

Heyman

Donaldson

Mungall

Bains

Beare

Chen

Popham

Trevena

Sims

Chow

Kang

Simons

D’Eith

Routley

Elmore

Dean

Routledge

Singh

Leonard

Darcy

Simpson

Robinson

Farnworth

Horgan

James

Eby

Dix

Ralston

Mark

Fleming

Conroy

Fraser

Chandra Herbert

Rice

Krog

Furstenau

Weaver

Olsen

Glumac

NAYS — 41

Cadieux

de Jong

Bond

Polak

Wilkinson

Lee

Stone

Coleman

Wat

Bernier

Thornthwaite

Paton

Ashton

Barnett

Yap

Martin

Davies

Kyllo

Sullivan

Isaacs

Morris

Stilwell

Ross

Oakes

Johal

Redies

Rustad

Milobar

Sturdy

Clovechok

Shypitka

Hunt

Throness

Tegart

Stewart

Sultan

Gibson

Reid

Letnick

Larson

Foster

Hon. M. Farnworth moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1:30 this afternoon.

The House adjourned at 11:54 a.m.

The Official Report of Debates ( Hansard ) and webcasts of

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are available on the Internet. Chamber debates are broadcast on

television.

Copyright © 2018: British Columbia

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