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June 11, 2001

37th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2001-Jun-11 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Monday 11 June 2001 Lundi 11 juin 2001

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

SCOUT GROUPS

TOM JOY

SIMCOE COMMUNITY ACCESS NETWORK

COMMUNITY CARE ACCESS CENTRES

THOPPIL ABRAHAM

MEMORIAL SERVICE

COMMUNITY CARE ACCESS CENTRES

CATCH THE SPIRIT

VISITORS

ANSWERS TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS

VISITORS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

ONTARIO WATER RESOURCES

AMENDMENT ACT

(WATER SOURCE PROTECTION), 2001 /

LOI DE 2001 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LES RESSOURCES EN EAU

DE L'ONTARIO

(PROTECTION DES SOURCES

D'ALIMENTATION EN EAU)

THE BOYS' HOME ACT, 2001

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

ONTARIO ECONOMY

VICTIMS OF CRIME

ONTARIO ECONOMY

VICTIMS OF CRIME

ONTARIO ASSOCIATION OF

FORMER PARLIAMENTARIANS

ORAL QUESTIONS

WALKERTON TRAGEDY

ONTARIO DRUG BENEFIT PROGRAM

LONG-TERM CARE

WALKERTON TRAGEDY

COMMUNITY CARE ACCESS CENTRES

MINING INDUSTRY

EDUCATION FUNDING

ACADEMIC TESTING

STEEL INDUSTRY

EMERGENCY SERVICES

HIGHWAY 410

HOSPITAL FUNDING

TRAVEL INDUSTRY COMPENSATION FUND

EMERGENCY SERVICES

PETITIONS

HOME CARE

EDUCATION TAX CREDIT

PROTECTION OF MINORS

EDUCATION TAX CREDIT

SERVICES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

ORDERS OF THE DAY

AMBULANCE SERVICES COLLECTIVE

BARGAINING ACT, 2001 /

LOI DE 2001

SUR LA NÉGOCIATION COLLECTIVE

DANS LES SERVICES D'AMBULANCE

Monday 11 June 2001 Lundi 11 juin 2001

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

Mr Mike Colle (Eglinton-Lawrence): As a result of the Mike Harris government's repeal of the Rental Housing Protection Act, which prohibited the

demolition and conversion of affordable rental housing into luxury condos, modest and affordable rental housing across the city of Toronto is now being demolished and destroyed by developers who

basically don't care about neighbourhoods and certainly don't care about affordable housing. By their demolition of this affordable housing, they are forcing low-income residents, mostly seniors on

fixed incomes, literally on to the streets of Toronto. The destruction of affordable housing is essentially an attack on seniors and an attack on neighbourhoods. These are very livable, successful

neighbourhoods that have been established over 50, 60 and 70 years, which the taxpayers of those neighbourhoods built.

Now we have individual developers that come in and destabilize neighbourhoods by demolishing existing low-rise affordable housing and replacing it with monster

condos, causing immense disruption and destabilization of these beautiful neighbourhoods. We have cases like the Rosewell Court decision, Cheritan, where the OMB, appointed by this government,

overrules local council, overrules local taxpayers, overrules elected officials and says no to thousands of citizens who are saying, "Protect our neighbourhoods."

Shame on this government --

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Michael A. Brown): Thank you.

SCOUT GROUPS

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): Today I have the pleasure of recognizing and congratulating the scout groups of my district of Parry

Sound-Muskoka. There are a number of groups that are going to be attending the Canadian Scout Jamboree, July 6 to 13, in Prince Edward Island. Those groups are the First Bracebridge Scout Group,

the Third Bracebridge Scout Group, the First Milford Bay Scout Group, the First Gravenhurst Scout Group and the Huntsville Scout Group.

I'd like to congratulate all the parents, the scout leaders and the scouts themselves for the terrific fundraising they've done in making this project possible.

They've raised $1,200 for each scout and each leader who's taking

part in this project. They did that through scrap metal collecting, car washes, selling hot chocolate at parades, beer bottle

drives, spaghetti dinners, selling ice cream, selling baked potatoes and perogies, as well as other activities.

At the CJ there are going to be 10,000 scouts attending, as well as 5,000 leaders. It's going to be a fantastic week. I know the kids are looking forward to the

mud maze, the obstacle courses, the badge trading and the many other activities that are going to be going on there.

I'd like to particularly recognize Dave and Kathleen Johnson as being a couple of the key people involved in this organization. It really was all the parents

involved, taking

part in all those various activities, raising $1,200 per child to be able to attend this fantastic week-long scouting event, July 6 to 13, Prince Edward Island. Congratulations to

all of you.

TOM JOY

Mr Dwight Duncan (Windsor-St Clair): On Wednesday evening, the Jewish National Fund will be honouring a man in my community who, I know, is a

friend to many members of this House, Tom Joy.

Mr Joy is a remarkable member of our community and of this province. He is someone who has served us all well. He has a remarkable presence about him. He's

physically imposing, with a broad smile and a warm way about him that I think all of us have come to appreciate over the years.

Mr Joy, for those who don't know, presently owns Windsor Raceway. He bought that at a time when it was suffering financially. He invested a huge amount of his

own personal money to save that racetrack. That track contributes enormously to our economy. Mr Joy has contributed literally millions of dollars to various charities in our community and

throughout the province.

One of the more interesting stories about Tom Joy is that when Mr Pearson passed his flag bill back in 1964, it was Tom Joy who got together a consortium at his

request to mass produce it. I should say that Mr Joy hails originally from the great town of St Catharines, Ontario.

All members will not be aware that Tom Joy is now fighting the greatest battle of his life, with cancer. He's going to be home Wednesday for his tribute, and I

know all of us join in wishing him well in that fight as we celebrate the enormous contribution he has already made, knowing the great contributions he has ahead of him.

SIMCOE COMMUNITY ACCESS NETWORK

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): I'm pleased to rise this afternoon to comment on an exciting event that occurred in Simcoe county last

Friday. I was pleased to join Jim Wilson, the Minister of Energy, Science and Technology, to announce the launch of the Simcoe Community Access Network, Canada's largest fibre optic community

network.

This new network project will build a massive infrastructure over the challenging rural terrain of Ontario's second-largest county. In total, 600 kilometres of

fibre optic cable will be constructed to connect municipal governments, health care providers, schools and college campuses, libraries and local businesses, 250 locations in all.

In February of 2000, the Ontario government invested $1.7 million under the telecommunications access partnerships in the $30-million project. The TAP program

was initiated to improve Ontario's competitiveness in the new economy and create new high-tech jobs through advanced telecommunication applications and infrastructure.

I'd like to congratulate Desmond Lorente, president of the SCAN Development Corp, Glen Barnden, SCAN project manager, and all the partners who have worked so

hard to make this project a reality. The SCAN fibre optic network will be constructed over the next 14 months by Hydro One and four local utility companies, and it will allow Simcoe county to

remain highly competitive in a world economy.

COMMUNITY CARE ACCESS CENTRES

Mr Michael Gravelle (Thunder Bay-Superior North): The decision by the Minister of Health to freeze the funding for home care services in this

province must be reversed. The implications of this freeze for the Community Care Access Centre of the District of Thunder Bay and for the clients they serve are devastating.

Unless Minister Clement opens his eyes and sees the damage this freeze will cause, we will see many of our frail and elderly residents, who are so keen to stay

in their homes, forced back into the hospital system or, conversely, they will be kept in a hospital for a longer period, due to the lack of available care at home. Now, does that make any sense,

when the entire purpose of providing these services is to help keep people in their homes?

What will happen to the people who have been able to maintain their independence when this brutal decision forces the access centre to ration services and

provide care to only those most urgently in need of care? This is cruel, this is wrong and it is in fact bizarrely unsound from a fiscal point of view. It simply makes no sense.

If I may, I'd like to direct my final comment to the Premier. Last week, Premier, I asked you to find time during your stop in Thunder Bay to meet with our local

physicians in order for you to see the depth of our physician shortage crisis. Now I implore you to find time to meet with the board of our community care access centre. You need to understand

first-hand just what this funding freeze will mean to the clients they serve.

This is an issue that is of extraordinary concern to so many in our region. Please listen to this plea for compassion and provide the funding that is needed for

our hard-working and dedicated home care providers.

THOPPIL ABRAHAM

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): Mr Thoppil Abraham has been a leader in psychiatric care in Welland and the Niagara region for 18 years now.

He's an incredibly professional, well-trained and committed psychiatrist who has been serving our community for almost two decades. He's been at the forefront of advocacy for adequate levels of

psychiatric services for people in Niagara region. He's the one who blew the whistle and insisted we were short some 13 psychiatrists in Niagara region to reach the complement of 18, which is what

would be required to have a sufficient level of psychiatric medical services.

He blew the whistle again. He blew the whistle on a secret report that had been prepared by the Clarke Institute that recommended the closure of one of Niagara's

three psychiatric facilities. Dr Abraham, with the courage and the insight he's displayed for his whole career, said, "No, it simply can't be done. We don't need fewer psychiatric facilities, fewer

beds. Darn it, we need more."

What was the response to Dr Abraham's courage? Well, I'll tell you that the regional medical advisory committee of Niagara health services fired Dr Abraham as

the senior responsible physician for mental health and psychiatry. This is a pure political response to a psychiatrist who has shown courage and insight during the course of his career. I condemn

that action by the health services of Niagara and by the medical advisory committee. I call upon people in Niagara and across this province to express their outrage at that treatment of a brave and

conscientious medical practitioner.

MEMORIAL SERVICE

Mrs Tina R. Molinari (Thornhill): On a crowded beachfront in Tel Aviv a couple of weeks ago a suicide bomber claimed the lives of 20 young

people and wounded 86 others as they were enjoying the start of their weekend at a nightclub that faced a promenade area lined with restaurants, bars and hotels. Last night I attended a community

memorial gathering at Mel Lastman Square to grieve for the victims of this latest tragedy.

Most of the victims of the tragedy were recent immigrants from the former Soviet Union. Their brutal deaths plunged the country into mourning and sent shock

waves around the world. Among the speakers at last night's memorial was Rabbi Zaltsman, who is a spiritual leader in the Russian Jewish community. He had known many of the victims whose lives have

been claimed in the recent fighting that has occurred since September.

Young people came forward to light candles placed at the foot of the stage at Mel Lastman Square, one candle for each of the 20 victims. Boards that displayed

the victims' names flanked both sides of the stage. All 20 of the victims' names were read as the candles were lit.

Let us hope and pray for the families of the victims whose lives were cut short in this recent tragedy and for all the families that have suffered because of the

breakdown of peace in the Middle East. We can only pray that a solution to the current problem can be obtained so that tragedies such as this do not occur again.

COMMUNITY CARE ACCESS CENTRES

Mr Rick Bartolucci (Sudbury): Imagine being elderly, sick and without family or resources. Within that context, imagine receiving the following

letter:

"Dear Client....

"I am writing to advise you that serious reductions in home care have become necessary right across Ontario due to inadequate funding and the fiscal policies of

the current provincial government. For these reasons, community care access centres are being forced by the government's policies to make deep cuts in their services.

" ... our agency, with deep regret and sincere apologies to our clients, will be introducing service reductions."

It's bad enough that this is happening, but when you imagine that this is a covering letter from the former president, the past president of the Ontario

Association of Community Care Access Centres and one of the architects of community care access centres, you understand just how wrong this government is in their mean-spirited approach to the

elderly and frail of this province. So today, on behalf of Bob Fera, on behalf of all the clients of community care access centres across Ontario, I implore the Mike Harris government to rethink

their policies with regard to home care and to provide adequate resources that will meet the needs.

CATCH THE SPIRIT

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): It is my pleasure to rise in the Legislative Assembly today to talk about an important community event in my riding of

Durham. This Saturday, June 16, the community of Tyrone is hosting an event called Catch the Spirit, at the Tyrone Community Centre.

This is the first time in a decade that Tyrone has held this re-celebration. One of the event organizers, Joy Vaneyk, has planned this ceremony to resemble

similar ceremonies that were held in Tyrone over a 20-year period. There will be a ribbon-cutting ceremony for the opening and a basketball court and new playground equipment for the Tyrone

Community Centre. Clarington firefighters have also got involved and will be hosting their Safety House and giving parents and children valuable safety tips.

One of the highlights of this day will be to recognize the many volunteer contributions made specifically by two important area residents, Edna Philp and Laverne

Taylor. In this International Year of Volunteers, I commend the community of Tyrone for their efforts to keep small-town Ontario spirit alive. I congratulate Ms Philp and Ms Taylor on their

kindness of spirit and involvement in building strong communities.

VISITORS

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): Mr Speaker, time permitting, I would like to recognize former parliamentarians who are in the Speaker's gallery

joining us today.

Mr Michael Gravelle (Thunder Bay-Superior North): On a point of order, Speaker: I'm sure everybody will want to help me welcome students and

staff from St Brigid school in Nakina, in my riding of Thunder Bay-Superior North. We're glad to have them here.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Michael A. Brown): That is not a point of order, but we welcome them.

ANSWERS TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS

Mr David Caplan (Don Valley East): Speaker, I have a point of order in regard to standing order 97, which talks about written questions placed

to ministers. You would know that on April 24 I placed nine questions to the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, and they have been printed in Orders and Notices every subsequent week. I

should tell you as well, Speaker, before you understand the fullness of this matter, that back in December, I placed the selfsame questions to that particular minister, or rather to his

predecessor, and it has been since December that the ministry has had an opportunity to at least place a response.

According to standing order 97(d), "The Minister shall answer such written questions within 24 sitting days, unless he or she indicates that more time is

required...." It goes on, and I could read the entire section, but in

section (

e) it says, "The answers to such written questions shall be given to the member who asked the questions and to the

Clerk of the House who shall print a notation in the Votes and Proceedings that the question has been answered."

Speaker, these questions have been sitting on the order paper since December. It was the government's choice not to call this House back for 133 days. This is a

breach of the standing orders. I believe it is a contempt of this House, and I seek some redress and a remedy from you.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Michael A. Brown): Thank you. That is a point of order. Questions do need to be answered within the time allocated in the

standing orders. I would hope the ministry can accommodate the standing orders, but I have no authority to compel it.

VISITORS

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Michael A. Brown): We have with us today in the Speaker's and public galleries former members of the provincial

Parliament attending the inaugural meeting of the Ontario Association of Former Parliamentarians.

I would like to acknowledge the members of the founding executive: Reverend Derwyn Shea, Mr Gilles Morin, Mr Terence Young, Mr Tony Silipo, Mr John Parker.

Please join me in welcoming our special guests.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

ONTARIO WATER RESOURCES

AMENDMENT ACT

(WATER SOURCE PROTECTION), 2001 /

LOI DE 2001 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LES RESSOURCES EN EAU

DE L'ONTARIO

(PROTECTION DES SOURCES

D'ALIMENTATION EN EAU)

Mrs Dombrowsky moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 79,

An Act to amend the Ontario Water Resources Act with respect to water source protection / Projet de loi 79, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les ressources

en eau de l'Ontario en ce qui concerne la protection des sources d'alimentation en eau.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mrs Leona Dombrowsky (Hastings-Frontenac-Lennox and Addington): The Ontario Water Resources Amendment Act, 2001, amends the Ontario Water

Resources Act with regard to the availability and conservation of Ontario water resources.

Specifically, the bill requires the director to consider the ministry's statement of environmental values when making any decision under the act. The bill also

requires that municipalities and conservation authorities are notified of applications to take water that, if granted, may affect their water sources or supplies.

THE BOYS' HOME ACT, 2001

Ms Churley moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr13,

An Act respecting The Boys' Home.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Hon Brenda Elliott (Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs): On a point of order, Speaker: On this special day, in honour of so many

parliamentarians joining us here in the House, I would seek unanimous consent that for this day only, these former parliamentarians be allowed to heckle.

The Deputy Speaker: Do we have unanimous consent? I heard a no. It may be difficult to stop them, but I heard a no.

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Education, Government House Leader): I move that pursuant to standing order 9(c)(i), the House shall meet from

6:45 pm to 9:30 pm on Monday, June 11; Tuesday, June 12; and Wednesday, June 13, 2001, for the purpose of considering government business.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Michael A. Brown): Shall the motion carry?

All those in favour will say "aye."

All those opposed will say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

Call in the members. It will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1354 to 1359.

The Deputy Speaker: Order. Mrs Ecker has moved that pursuant to standing order 9(c)(i), the House shall meet from 6:45 pm to 9:30 pm on

Monday, June 11, Tuesday, June 12, and Wednesday, June 13, 2001, for the purpose of considering government business.

All those in favour will stand one at a time.

Ayes

Agostino, Dominic

Arnott, Ted

Baird, John R.

Barrett, Toby

Bartolucci, Rick

Beaubien, Marcel

Bountrogianni, Marie

Boyer, Claudette

Bradley, James J.

Bryant, Michael

Caplan, David

Chudleigh, Ted

Clark, Brad

Clement, Tony

Colle, Mike

Conway, Sean G.

Cordiano, Joseph

Crozier, Bruce

Curling, Alvin

DeFaria, Carl

Di Cocco, Caroline

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duncan, Dwight

Dunlop, Garfield

Ecker, Janet

Elliott, Brenda

Flaherty, Jim

Gilchrist, Steve

Gill, Raminder

Gravelle, Michael

Guzzo, Garry J.

Hardeman, Ernie

Hastings, John

Hoy, Pat

Hudak, Tim

Jackson, Cameron

Johnson, Bert

Kells, Morley

Kennedy, Gerard

Klees, Frank

Kwinter, Monte

Levac, David

Marland, Margaret

Miller, Norm

Molinari, Tina R.

Murdoch, Bill

Newman, Dan

O'Toole, John

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Parsons, Ernie

Patten, Richard

Peters, Steve

Phillips, Gerry

Pupatello, Sandra

Ramsay, David

Runciman, Robert W.

Sampson, Rob

Sergio, Mario

Smitherman, George

Snobelen, John

Spina, Joseph

Sterling, Norman W.

Stockwell, Chris

Tascona, Joseph N.

Tilson, David

Tsubouchi, David H.

Turnbull, David

Wettlaufer, Wayne

Witmer, Elizabeth

Young, David

The Deputy Speaker: All those opposed will please rise one at a time.

Nays

Churley, Marilyn

Hampton, Howard

Kormos, Peter

Lankin, Frances

Marchese, Rosario

Martel, Shelley

Martin, Tony

Clerk of the House (Mr Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 70; the nays are 7.

The Deputy Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

ONTARIO ECONOMY

Hon Robert W. Runciman (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): In the speech from the throne on April 19, our government set out 21

steps that would bring Ontarians into the 21st century.

The first step focuses on maintaining a strong economy with competitive business sectors that create jobs. To that end, step 1 calls for the removal of

barriers to jobs, investment and growth so that Ontario will remain strong and competitive with the rest of the world.

As part of that process, this summer the ministry will begin meetings with representatives of key business and industry sectors to determine what they require

to remain competitive in a global marketplace. My colleague the honourable member for Halton, Mr Chudleigh, parliamentary assistant for the Ministry of Economic Development and Trade, will shortly

begin face-to-face discussions and round-table meetings with representatives of the chemicals industry.

From 1986 to 1996, this industry grew faster than the entire manufacturing sector. These meetings will be followed during the summer by consultations with the

industrial, commercial and institutional construction industry, a key employer in the province that builds our commercial and industrial infrastructure.

My colleague will also meet with experts in early-stage equity financing about the issue of access to risk capital for emerging high-growth firms. This is an

issue that is crucial in terms of the success of these firms, which cut across all sectors. The purpose of these consultations is to discover the existing or emerging barriers to competitiveness

and to identify opportunities for building stronger businesses and sectors. We must ensure our businesses are operating on a level playing field. Our business leaders and associations are the best

source of information for this purpose. They have practical experience, waging daily battles with global competition.

I believe this process will result in concrete ideas and suggestions to help Ontario remain competitive with the world.

I plan to inform the House of our findings following my colleague's final report this fall.

VICTIMS OF CRIME

Hon David Young (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs): Today, June 11, the annual day of commemoration for victims of

crime, we stand to reaffirm our commitment: our commitment to support victims and to keep communities across Ontario safe.

Our government stands solidly on the side of victims of crime. We have backed that promise by funding a wide range of government and community programs that

serve people across this province who have been victimized.

Some of our actions in the past six years include creating and expanding Canada's most comprehensive domestic violence program. We have also dedicated up to

$50 million in funding under our victims' justice action plan to provide further, better and faster services for victims of crime. This is in addition to the money already spent across government

to provide services to victims.

Just last week I stood in the Legislative Assembly and introduced for first reading a bill entitled Prohibiting Profiting from Recounting Crimes Act. If

passed, this bill will help to ensure that victims are not revictimized and it will also help to prevent criminals from profiting through the recounting of their crimes.

Five years ago we proclaimed the Victims' Bill of Rights. That was indeed a precedent-setting act which legislated a series of principles to support victims

with timely, respectful, courteous treatment throughout the criminal justice system. However, we understand that there is more to do and we will do more.

Today, in this Legislature, in this building, we are proclaiming the Victims' Bill of Rights Amendment Act. This act creates a permanent Office for Victims of

Crime. It is the first such permanent agency in this country and it is being established to advise government on matters of relevance to victims. It will help us ensure that the principles of the

Victims' Bill of Rights are respected, and we will do so by consulting with victims. It will help us to implement provincial standards for services for victims of crime. It will identify community

priorities for funding through the victims' justice fund, which I mentioned a moment ago. The office will also work closely with government to develop policies to further our efforts to support

victims and -- let me stress -- to prevent further victimization.

Sharon Rosenfeldt, chair of the Office for Victims of Crime, and Scott Newark, who is special counsel to the same office, are here in the gallery today. I

would like to take this opportunity, if I may, to thank them publicly for the tremendous work they have done to support victims across this province, on behalf of victims in this great

province.

I am also pleased to tell the Legislature that over the next three years we will be expanding three very important programs that serve victims of crime across

this province. These programs are part of the victims' justice action plan that our government announced last year.

The victim/witness assistance program, which provides information and support to victims across the province throughout the court system, will be increased by

31 sites. This will bring a total of 57 sites across the province.

The victim crisis assistance and referral service will be increased by 15 further sites. When completed, we will have a total of 42 sites across the province

for this very important program. This vital service is managed by community-based boards, and it provides crisis intervention services to victims of crime and disaster through police referrals.

That exists 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Our government will also expand the SupportLink program. SupportLink provides free wireless phones, preprogrammed to dial 911, for victims at risk of personal

harm from sexual assault, domestic violence or from stalking.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Rogers AT&T Wireless and Ericsson Canada Inc for their participation in this very important program.

The pilot project established in Ottawa and Barrie of the SupportLink program has been very successful. That's why I am so proud to stand and announce that it

will be expanded to 18 additional locations across the province.

The permanent Office for Victims of Crime and the three program expansions I mentioned just a moment ago will help to ensure that if further victimization does

occur, victims will have the supports they need and victims will have the supports they indeed deserve.

Yesterday, I was privileged to attend a ceremony at Convocation Hall at the University of Toronto. It was a ceremony in commemoration of victims, and there

were many people in attendance. There were families and friends mourning the loss of loved ones. Individuals were acknowledged throughout the program for their personal strengths and for their very

survival.

Leaders of victims' groups and advocates for victims of crime were there, and they all understood, all too well, the tragedy of victimization. So too does our

government. We are listening to the voices of victims and, perhaps more importantly, we are acting upon what we have heard.

On this, the annual day of commemoration for victims of crime, I join with my colleagues in honouring all victims, in honouring their families who grieve and

in honouring all of those who display rare courage, courage as they work to end violence in our society.

On their behalf, our government will continue to work hard to provide and to enhance victims' services. We will continue to seek policy solutions and to work

to implement those solutions. And always, we will ensure that the rights of victims are protected throughout the justice system in this province.

Today, on this annual day of commemoration for victims of crime, I would ask all members of this House to join with me in reaffirming that commitment.

Mr Michael Bryant (St Paul's): Dalton McGuinty and Ontario Liberals wish to commemorate victims of crime by holding the government to account

on promises made but unkept, by continuing to introduce new initiatives for the benefit of victims of crime, and by ensuring that this government commemorate victims of crime not simply by word,

but also by deed.

Today, there is an announcement that a proclamation has occurred for an office that has been in existence since November 1998. I'd say to the government that,

while this proclamation is a positive step, it's an overdue step and it smacks, I'm afraid, of yet another reannouncement when it comes to the subject of victims of crime.

I'd remind the House that the office of the victims of crime was the subject of a throne speech in April 1998. The creation of the office was announced in

November 1998 and then in the year 2000, it was announced that the office would be statutorily entrenched.

Just in the past year, if you can believe it, we've had not just one reannouncement about this office, not just two reannouncements, we haven't had just three

reannouncements in the last year; we've now had four reannouncements on the proclamation of this office.

I'd say that, yes, it is a recommendation fulfilled, but there are other recommendations that need to be fulfilled, as set forth in A Voice for Victims,

authored by the Office for Victims of Crime. The office announced there is a significant disparity in the nature of victims' services available across this province, with no provincial standard. We

hear the government talk the talk about promising to bring in a standard. I'd say to this government, let's commemorate victims of crime by actually enacting a provincial services standard.

The report concluded that there was an unjustified surplus in the victims' justice fund, while whole communities have no victims' services. I'd say to this

government, let's commemorate victims of crime, not by talking about this unjustified surplus, but let's get the surplus out the door for those communities that need it.

I can only mention three for now. There is the existence of untapped financial resources in terms of uncollected fines and bail forfeitures. Let's stop talking

about collecting these fines and let's just get out there and get this restitution on behalf of victims of crime.

Lastly, I'd say that we have before this House a number of initiatives, bills, introduced by Ontario Liberals. I would urge this government to bring them

forward. We could do something for victims of gun violence. We could do something for victims of child prostitution, thanks to MPP Rick Bartolucci. We could do something for victims of organized

crime, thanks to MPP Dave Levac. We could do something for victims of date rape drugs. We could do something for victims of domestic violence by implementing the Baldwin committee report provided

in August of last year.

This side of the House will continue to fight for victims of crime, not just in words. When it comes to victims of crime, this government is all talk and no

action.

ONTARIO ECONOMY

Mr Monte Kwinter (York Centre): I'd like to respond to the Minister of Economic Development and Trade. I welcome anything that the ministry

puts forward to help encourage our competitiveness, and I wish the member for Halton well. I'd be a little more enthusiastic if I didn't think that this was just another public relations

exercise.

I've had the opportunity over the years to attend meetings where they've announced a new initiative that amounted to no more than a new logo. I've heard about

the ambassador program, where businessmen would be going to countries to which we export, and then while they were there, they would act as our ambassadors. I haven't seen any great results out of

that.

But I can tell you this: there are lots of opportunities for us to become competitive. They're known; they're known to the industry and they're known to the

government. All the government has to do is act on it. We have this huge, untapped resource of foreign trade technicians and professionals that we could bring into our economy to make us far more

competitive, at very little cost. We have the ability to make sure that our universities have the proper funding so that we can train people, because when you talk to businessmen, they tell you the

number one issue is that they don't have the skilled people they need.

Minister, again, I wish you well in your endeavour, I wish you good luck in it, but I tell you that there are things, like making sure that we're represented

in our major markets. We should do these things the businessmen have been telling us. They've been telling us this when we go to pre-budget hearings. They've been telling it to us when we've gone

to other committee hearings. The issues are known. What we don't know is what the government's response is going to be.

VICTIMS OF CRIME

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): I want to say to the Attorney General that the temerity of his comments today is in no way mitigated by his

feigned sincerity. His and his government's history is a betrayal of the incredible shallowness and hollowness of his comments today on behalf of victims.

Where was this Attorney General when we called upon him to protect a young victim, 17-year-old Jeffrey Fleeton, struck dead by an illegal load? What did this

Attorney General's prosecutor do? This Attorney General's prosecutor cuts a deal in a backroom plea bargain with the offending trucking company to pull the charge in exchange for a $2,000

contribution to a charitable organization so that the trucking company not only kills an innocent kid but then gets a tax receipt for an income tax break come time to file its taxes. I hope you're

not suggesting that that constitutes standing up for victims, Attorney General, because it doesn't by anybody's measure.

Where was this Attorney General when we called up him to protect victim Robyn Lafleur just last week in this very Legislature? Remember Robyn Lafleur, Attorney

General? You saw her picture. You can't meet her, because she's dead. She was killed in a workplace homicide down in Thorold at the Esquire factory. Esquire and its corporate ownership have been

charged with dozens of federal and provincial charges. This Attorney General's prosecutors are in a backroom, cutting a deal, plea bargaining to pull charges so that convictions are removed from

the prospect of possibility against the perpetrators of what amounts to a workplace murder.

Attorney General, you don't give a tinker's damn about Jeffrey Fleeton, a 17-year-old boy struck dead --

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Michael A. Brown): You'll need to withdraw.

Mr Kormos: Withdrawn. I'll explain to you the etymology of that phrase at some later time, Speaker.

You don't give a darn about 17-year-old Jeffrey Fleeton or his family. His family has been excluded from any consultation. His family has not been told what's

happening behind those closed doors. His family has had the door locked, bolted, barred and slammed in their face by you and your prosecutors down in the Milton-Oakville-Burlington area.

You don't give a darn about Robyn Lafleur, that dead young woman. We called upon you to ensure that your prosecutors prosecute those charges to the fullest

extent to seek convictions against every accused after an extensive examination and after an extensive investigation of the facts. The facts were there to lay the charges; your prosecutors were

there to withdraw them.

I spoke with Linda Even just last week. She has moved far away from Niagara region, where she was slashed and stabbed, knife blade after knife blade, in an

attempt on her life. It was your prosecutors, Attorney General, who plea bargained that attempted murder away to a far lesser charge. Linda Even's attacker was out of jail a long time ago. Linda

Even still lives with those physical scars, the physical disability and with the mental and emotional scars. She and her teenaged daughter, but 15 years old, are trying to rebuild their lives in a

town far away from Niagara region, where she became a victim, first, of her spouse, and secondly, a victim of you and your government when your government pulled the charges against that

perpetrator, effectively letting him walk on what should have been attempted murder. Surely 25-plus strikes to the body with a knife counts as attempted murder in any fair-minded person's mind; it

didn't in your prosecutor's mind, Attorney General, when they pulled those charges and struck a backroom deal.

Linda Even was a victim once, of her spouse; was a victim twice, of this Attorney General; and is a victim thrice now, of this government, because she is

forced to survive on ODSP benefits. You won't even give her sufficient resources to obtain the physiotherapy she needs to recover from those knife blows to her body that came this close to taking

her life.

You talk about being concerned about victims. You're creating yet more victims. You've turned your back on victim after victim as your prosecutors and your

crown attorneys plea bargain cases away on a daily basis, and we've raised them in this Legislature. This Attorney General says, "There's nothing I can do." Horse feathers, Attorney General, there

is everything you can do. You can lay the law down with your prosecutors. You can give them the resources to prosecute these offences that result in death and serious bodily harm to people to the

full extent of the law. You refuse to do that.

You've thrown your hands up. You're content with slick, facile press releases and press conferences. Victims don't believe you, we don't and the people of

Ontario don't believe you.

Mr Steve Gilchrist (Scarborough East): Mr Speaker, I seek unanimous consent of the House for statements on the Ontario Association of Former

Parliamentarians.

The Deputy Speaker: Agreed? Agreed.

ONTARIO ASSOCIATION OF

FORMER PARLIAMENTARIANS

Mr Steve Gilchrist (Scarborough East): Mr Speaker, I believe we have agreement that each party will speak for approximately five minutes to

welcome members of the association who have joined us here today.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to rise today and speak on the first anniversary of the passage of the bill that created the Ontario Association of Former

Parliamentarians.

Every day on our way into this chamber I pass a wall downstairs on which are engraved the names of the former members of this Legislature. Regardless of the

number of times I have passed that wall in the last six years, today it has taken on a special significance. That wall lists the members from all political parties who have taken the parliamentary

concepts developed in Great Britain and adapted them to meet the unique circumstances of our great province. Visionaries such as Sir Adam Beck, Sir Oliver Mowat and Leslie Frost used the forum of

this Legislature to develop and implement bold initiatives that propelled our province to the forefront not only within Canada but, arguably, of all the world economies.

Their visions have been embraced and improved upon by successive Premiers and MPPs and, regardless of our political differences, there has been a common goal

of bettering the welfare of all Ontarians and ensuring that the provincial government remains relevant, responsible and progressive. I know that my colleagues on both sides of this House share my

sense of honour to have been given the opportunity to join with the members listed on that marble plaque who have served the province as MPPs.

It wasn't that long ago that I first arrived at Queen's Park as a new member, with little knowledge of the workings of the Legislature. Instinctively, like

most other new members, I sought the advice of more experienced colleagues to help me find the way. Obviously, the business of the Legislature can't be put on hold while new members become

acquainted with the rules and procedures, so for many members the learning curve was quite steep.

This was, in part, the inspiration for the creation of the Ontario Association of Former Parliamentarians. Born out of the deliberations of former members of

all three parties, the goal was to create an association that would be far more than just a club for former MPPs. We know all too well the tragic consequences that have resulted from the dramatic

change when people leave this chamber, especially when individuals are not prepared for that transition.

During the debate on the bill that created the association, all members of this House indicated they found it unacceptable that any member, past or present,

should feel they have nowhere to turn when they require assistance. The men and women elected to this Legislature have brought to this job considerable expertise and knowledge from a wide variety

of backgrounds. The association puts that knowledge and experience to use in a positive way and is ready to assist each and every one of us when the inevitable day comes that we too become former

members.

Shortly after the bill was passed last year, I received a phone call from a constituent who had been watching the proceedings in the House that day. He

commented that while such an organization was commendable, he couldn't believe the same elected officials he watched every day on the parliamentary channel could ever work together to help each

other.

It struck me that most Ontarians don't get an opportunity to see the many occasions that members on both sides of the House do co-operate and work together on

common goals. Far too often the focus has been on the negative aspects of our service and not the positive changes we are making each and every day. It's true that the media coverage of our

parliamentary democracy can create the impression that individuals from different parties have little connection with each other and even less opportunity to work together. However, the

co-operation by all members in the passage of this bill, when it came before our committee, was not unique. Instead, the tremendous work done by all the members of the general government committee

on bills such as Brian's Law and the Franchise Act have shown me that co-operation can very much be an integral part of how we do business in this Legislature.

Today the Ontario Association of Former Parliamentarians works to support Parliament by offering non-partisan support for the parliamentary system. It helps

develop relationships between former members and current members, and it assists former members who have completed their service and are attempting to make the transition back to the private

sector. The association has elected a board of directors representing all political parties and has opened a small office to better serve the needs of former MPPs.

The association highlights the great respect each of us has, not only for each other but for the institution of Parliament. Each and every day the people of

Ontario put their trust in us as elected officials to represent their interests in this Legislature.

Since Confederation we've built a province that is tolerant, a province that respects and encourages diversity, a society where an individual can start out

with nothing and with some hard work can succeed and even be elected to this chamber and become either an MPP or even a minister of the crown. The opportunities that generations of Ontarians have

fought to create and maintain are in our hands to protect and build upon.

I'd like to particularly thank Reverend Derwyn Shea, Tony Silipo, Gilles Morin, Terence Young and John Parker for their hard work, dedication and continued

service to the people of Ontario. It was their initiative that helped create and establish this association, and it's been their hard work that's enabled the Ontario Association of Former

Parliamentarians to grow.

I appreciate the opportunity to speak about this very important organization. I hope all members, past and present, take the time to learn more about this

association and consider giving their time, experience and knowledge to help others who may benefit.

Finally, I want to thank the 40 former MPPs who have joined us here today in the Speaker's gallery and congratulate all of them and all of their other

colleagues who are not with us today for their dedication and their record of service to the people of Ontario.

Mr Sean G. Conway (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): On my behalf and on behalf of my Liberal colleagues, I want to join in the remarks and welcome

our former colleagues to the Legislature today.

I was pleased this morning to have a coffee with the chair of the group, that noted Anglican divine from the west end, the Reverend Derwyn Shea. I want to

congratulate Derwyn and my former colleague Gilles Morin and the others who worked so hard over the last number of years to bring about what the previous speaker indicated we celebrate today.

It is, as I think someone mentioned earlier, the fate of all of us that at some point we are going to go from here to there, and as I look up to the gallery, I

say, advisedly for all of those of us down here, that it's useful when you've been around a while to think about who's up there.

I won't go through the entire list, but these days it's fashionable to talk about grassroots politics. Our old friend Lorne Henderson is up there, and I have

to say that in all the years I've been here I've never met anyone who was a better grassroots politician than our former friend from Lambton. Lorne's ear was so close to the grass that he could

hear it grow.

The former member from Wellington-Dufferin-Peel, Jack Johnson, is up there. I've known many sinners in politics. I don't think I ever knew a saint except Jack

Johnson. Jack had to be one of the absolute best people who ever came here, and I'm delighted to see him here today.

Gordie Walker's up there. I want to say to Gord that if ever there was a politician who was ahead of his time, it was Gord Walker. Gord's, shall I say,

eclectic career -- and it was an impressive career -- reminds us all that sometimes chance and opportunity don't quite present themselves when and where you would like them to appear.

Mr Speaker Turner, a former member from Peterborough, is there looking youthful and vigorous as always. I have to apologize to John for all the trouble that

people like myself and Bradley caused him when he was here to my immediate right.

The squire of North Port, James Taylor -- Sir John Macdonald used to say to his friend Sir John Carling that no man could be as honest as Sir John Carling

looked. I ask you to look at the squire of North Port and ask yourself, "Does he look like someone who said publicly in this place, not that many years ago, `I, a minister of the crown, was sadly

mugged in the corridors of power by those agents of Hydro'?" We didn't understand the full measure of what Jim was trying to tell us, but, Jim, I think there was more truth than perhaps we gave you

credit for.

My old friend Hughie O'Neil, looking very elegant and sartorial, is a reminder to those of you in the envy league that those parliamentary pensions of

yesteryear do have a certain appeal.

Doug Reycraft, formerly of Middlesex -- I say to the ministerial cohort that you should be so lucky to have as diligent a parliamentary secretary as I had in

Doug Reycraft in the days when controversial school bills certainly were given a broader canvas and a much more thorough ventilation than appears to be the fashion today.

Interjection.

Mr Conway: I say to the Minister of Finance that I'm trying to be balanced.

Warner is there. When the member from Guelph said we should ask people to give our visitors the right to heckle, it must be difficult for Mr Speaker Warner to

sit so quietly. I'm sure it's the company he's keeping up there with the current chair of the energy board, who proves without doubt that there is a very purposeful life after one's retirement.

Not too many of the current group probably know Mac Makarchuk, but Mac is up there. Mac might want to wave. People think Kormos is entertaining and lacerating,

but I want to tell you that in the old days when Mac Makarchuk was here, in the age when the new democracy really seemed to have a punch, when you could be both a hard-hitting socialist and quite a

sailing entrepreneur at one and the same time, Mac certainly was one, and he looks like he has retired well.

I just want to say to all these people here today and others who are not in the gallery -- I was delighted to see William Grenville Davis down at the

reception. The former Premier is looking very well and sounding even more well. I won't reveal some of our conversation, but he certainly seems not to have lost anything in his retirement.

Again, as I take my place, I just want to say on the Liberals' behalf that we support the initiative. I want to say on my own behalf, and perhaps a little

undiplomatically, that I believe this institution is very important, as the previous speaker indicated. It is, in my view, an institution that's in trouble. It seems to be getting into more trouble

all the time, and that is no one's individual responsibility. But hopefully we will find individual and collective ways of dealing with solutions to the institutional difficulty. I think that what

the Reverend Shea and others have done to bring this group together might be part of the remedial action.

I'm delighted to see them. I welcome them and wish them well in their work.

Mr Tony Martin (Sault Ste Marie): I want to on behalf of the New Democratic caucus here at Queen's Park take this opportunity as well to

recognize the important contribution that all members over the years have made to this wonderful place that we call Queen's Park, the Legislature. I think by recognizing the contribution that

members have made who have since moved on to other things, we recognize the very valuable role the Legislature and government play in the life of the community, the wonderful community that we call

Ontario. I think it's important that we today speak, as we are, of that contribution, of that both personal and public commitment that each member has made to this place and that has left its mark.

Your footprints are all over this place as we continue the work you started and worked so diligently to make Ontario a better place.

We indeed I think owe a debt of thanks to those who worked so hard with this whole body to make sure this organization got up and running so that it could do

the job it is mandated to do; people like Derwyn Shea and Gilles Morin were already mentioned. I think Tony Silipo needs to be mentioned as well, as a person who put a lot of time and effort and

energy into making sure this organization got legs under it and got moving so we could have this day, and hopefully many more of them, into the future as we recognize people who have contributed in

significant and important ways to the province.

I remember myself some of the characters I served with over the last 11 years. As I was coming here this morning, I was led to chuckle at times as I remembered

some of the speeches they made, some of the shenanigans, the geriatrics that happened in this place, and people like -- geriatrics? Is that what I said? Yes, anyway; sorry, no offence meant. I just

couldn't find the right word.

People like Gilles Pouliot -- some of you will remember Gilles, a very colourful and wonderful member of this Legislature from up north. I remember the night

in here when, I think it was Minister Palladini, suggested that we didn't need inspectors on our highways any more because everybody now has a cellphone. Very quickly Mr Pouliot was on his feet to

suggest to the minister that up where he comes from, on a clear day you can see the curvature of the earth, so the next time his phone didn't ring, that it was Mr Pouliot calling. Many of you will

remember that, and I will never forget it. It was an off-the-cuff statement that I thought spoke yards about Mr Pouliot and his ability and the contribution he made here.

Of course there was Bud Wildman, my good friend who on one hand was a person who worked very hard and was very committed to his constituency and this place and

on the other hand enjoyed himself as a member of the Legislature. As a matter of fact, I was hoping somebody from the group would give Mr Wildman a call because, I have to say to you, since he

retired, he's been driving me crazy back in the Soo. He thinks he's still the member for Algoma and is out there doing constituency work, except that he doesn't have a staff any more. It's now my

staff that have to do that work. So if you have some job for him or something you think he could do, please give him a call. I'll talk to you after and give you his phone number, if you'd like, OK?

Bud just cannot extricate himself or disconnect himself from the work he did here. I think Bud is only symbolic of so many who served with the compassion and intensity of so many of you.

I can't sit down here this afternoon and not recognize the contribution Gary Malkowski made to this place as a member of our government from 1990 to 1995, and

the effort he went through to make sure we were all aware of the challenges that disabled folks across Ontario run into every day in their effort to try and participate in the communities in which

they belong. His effort here was gargantuan as he tried to participate as fully as he could in this place -- the kinds of changes he was the initiator of so that those who would come after him who

are challenged with a disability of one form or another might be able to participate. Some of you will notice, and maybe not note, that whenever the bells ring in this place, a light goes on that

flashes on and off. That wasn't here before 1990. It was on Gary Malkowski's insistence that when the bells rang in this place, if a member happened to be deaf, as he was, he should also have the

opportunity to respond as quickly as possible, and so those lights were put in. We thank Gary and we recognize his contribution.

It's only one of the many contributions that all previous members have made to this place, and we thank you. It was a difficult job while you were here. We

understand some of the challenges some of you might be facing out there now as you try to meld back into the communities from which you came and we wish you well in the future.

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): On a point of order, Speaker, just a point concerning the hearings: I don't know whether as Speaker you

can deal with this matter. Perhaps it has to be with the committee. It's a logistical thing, more than anything else, that was in St Catharines on Friday when the hearings were held, to do with the

bill that has the tax credits in it for education purposes. There didn't appear to be sufficient room for those who wanted to observe at that time, because a lot of people are interested in it. Is

there anything we can do that ensure that that would be the case?

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Michael A. Brown): Thank you for bringing that to our attention. The proper place to do that is at the committee, as

the member would know.

ORAL QUESTIONS

WALKERTON TRAGEDY

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Minister of the Environment. Last year seven died and 2,300 were made

sick when the people of Walkerton drank tap water. The lab test results showing that the water was poisonous was only sent to the local water operator and was not sent to the local medical officer

of health, who would have, had he received that notification, acted immediately to protect the people of Walkerton. As it was, he did not receive information until some three days later.

It turns out that three years ago, Madam Minister, that notice was sent to your Ministry from Richard Schabas, the then chief medical officer of health for

Ontario, who expressed some very serious concerns in writing about the fact that there was "no legal requirement" -- to quote -- "in the Ministry of the Environment legislation reporting adverse

drinking water test results to the local medical officer of health."

The chief medical officer of health for Ontario was putting your ministry on notice that, should the water be poisoned, they should receive that information.

Why did you ignore that warning?

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of the Environment): I believe that is directed to the Minister of Health.

Hon Tony Clement (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): The correspondence the honourable member refers to took place some considerable time

in the past, and I would have to review that in order to answer him fully and completely.

Mr McGuinty: Back to the Minister of the Environment: there is a clear, written record putting your Ministry on notice of the dangers of not

making it a legislative requirement, not passing a law, in Ontario that said that the new private water testers should be given the legal responsibility to notify the local medical officer of

health, should something go wrong on the ground, as it did in Walkerton.

My question to you, Madam Minister, is, why did your Ministry ignore that warning? They said it very, very clearly: they think it's very important that the

local medical officer of health have that information made available so that he or she can act on that very important information and thereby save lives.

In the case of Walkerton, the medical officer of health did not get information for three days. During the course of three days every single person, children,

parents and grandparents alike, in the community of Walkerton drank deadly water. Why, Madam Minister, did your Ministry ignore this warning?

Hon Mr Clement: As the honourable member is well aware, as indeed we all are, there is currently a comprehensive review of the events in

Walkerton being undertaken by Justice O'Connor, and it would not be appropriate for either myself or any other member of the Legislature to prejudge or to draw conclusions in the absence of Justice

O'Connor's conclusions, in the absence of the completion of the commission. So at this point we're looking forward to receiving his recommendations, looking forward to receiving his conclusions, as

I believe the honourable member is and indeed all members of the Legislature.

Mr McGuinty: Let me tell you a bit about the sorry and sad tale of warnings that went unheeded. This notice was sent to the Ministry of

Health. Jim Wilson sent a letter, as minister, to the Honourable Norm Sterling, Minister of Environment and Energy, saying that he had some concerns about this. The Honourable Elizabeth Witmer, who

then became Minister of Health, responded to that. Then we had notice from the Canadian Institute of Public Health Inspectors to the Honourable Tony Clement warning about the very same issue. Then

we had the Honourable Dan Newman speak to the very same issue in correspondence as well. There were at least five ministers in the Mike Harris government who had it brought to their attention that

there was a deadly gap in law, there was no legislative requirement being placed on the private water tester to put the local medical officer of health on notice in the event that the water was

poisonous. The problem over there, Madam Minister, is that nobody then took responsibility for this issue. My question again is, with five ministers on that side who were aware of this deadly gap

in time, why did you all ignore these warnings?

Hon Mr Clement: Indeed, these are the sorts of questions that had been raised by this same honourable member I believe a year ago in this

House. So I thank him for reminding this House of his original allegations. I understand we have obviously a very comprehensive review going on by Justice O'Connor. If Mr Justice sees this as an

important issue, I'm sure it'll get the examination that is required. I would like to end my remarks by indicating to this House, and through this House to the people of Ontario, that the very

issue that was raised has been the subject of a regulation, so this issue has now been corrected.

ONTARIO DRUG BENEFIT PROGRAM

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the minister responsible for seniors' issues. Minister, I want to talk today

about you government's plans to betray our seniors when they are most in need, and that is when they are sick. Last week seniors in Ontario learned that they might face means tests when they need

care in their homes. You were silent on this issue. Over the weekend, we learned that your government is also considering forcing seniors to pay for drugs. We haven't heard you speak to this issue

yet. Now is your opportunity, as champion for Ontario's seniors, to express yourself. Will you now, without reservation, condemn your government's actions to impose these new means tests on seniors

when it comes to their home care and their drugs?

Hon Cameron Jackson (Minister of Citizenship, minister responsible for seniors): I want to thank the honourable member for his question.

Frankly, if he's relying on press reports to formulate his question, he has been badly misinformed. No decision has been made about the future of the Ontario drug benefit plan.

Interjections.

Hon Mr Jackson: I assume the members opposite would like an answer to the question.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Michael A. Brown): Minister.

Hon Mr Jackson: What this government has said, and has said very clearly, is that the costs of health care in this province and all across

Canada are becoming unmanageable for taxpayers, and part of the national discussion that's going on is about all aspects of health care. So it's clear that we are going to be discussing all aspects

of health care. But no decision at this point has been made about the future of the Ontario drug benefit plan, a plan which I might add is one of the best plans in all of Canada. Ontario taxpayers

are very proud of the fact that they are supporting this drug benefit plan without one single penny of federal government money.

Mr McGuinty: It may be, Mr Minister, that no decision has been made. But what I want to know, on behalf of Ontario seniors -- our parents and

grandparents -- is, what is your position on these matters? What are you taking to the cabinet table? We now have a proposal on the table that says the government is considering imposing new means

tests for home care and drugs for seniors. You're the champion, duly anointed by Mike Harris, for seniors in Ontario. I'm asking you, on behalf of Ontario's seniors, on behalf of our parents and

grandparents, what is your position on these new proposed means tests for home care and drugs for our seniors?

Hon Mr Jackson: Again, the member opposite is absolutely wrong. There is nothing on the table, as you propose there is. There is nothing on

the table. What we have from the --

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: Order. Sorry, Minister.

Hon Mr Jackson: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I want to remind the member opposite that in the last election the sum total in your red book, your

commitment to seniors in Ontario, was that you would form a committee and discuss long-term care. That was the level of your commitment. I want to remind the member opposite what this government

promised. It promised it would bring in 20,000 long-term-care beds, because the NDP and Liberal governments didn't build a single new long-term-care bed in this province for 10 years. That is a

commitment, over $1.2 billion. This government has increased home care by 72% --

The Deputy Speaker: Thank you. Final supplementary.

Mr McGuinty: Well, Ontario's seniors are in much bigger trouble than I originally thought. What they expected you to do today, Mr Minister,

was to stand up and turn to your left, look at the Minister of Health and say, "No, not now, not ever. I'm the champion for seniors in Ontario. You can't do this." That's what they expected from

you. At a minimum, that's what they expected you to say.

This government has as its overall inspiration to reduce corporate taxes so they're the lowest in North America. That's going to cost us $2.2 billion. You are

standing by while this Minister of Health is saying to Ontario's seniors, "Sorry, folks, you have to come second in line. Corporations come first. We want the lowest taxes in North America, and if

that means you've got to pay money for your drugs, if that means you've got to pay money for your home care, then so be it." Do you know what? It's time for you now to stand up, do your job, earn

your money and say no to this minister, you're going to stand up for seniors: no to a means test for drugs, no to a means test for home care.

Interjections.

Hon Mr Jackson: The honourable member and his entire caucus seem to forget that four years ago we had a federal budget which announced -- you

might find this interesting -- a national pharmacare program. Do you remember the national pharmacare program?

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: Order. We're wasting time.

Hon Mr Jackson: Seniors were never included in the Canada Health Act. Seniors were never considered by Paul Martin Sr in the Canada Health

Act. There's no money from the federal government for nursing homes, no money for the drug program for seniors and no money for home care. What we've had from Paul Martin Jr is a couple of budgets

where he promised he'd do it. But like every other Liberal promise in Ottawa, it was broken. The only government that's making seniors come second is your federal Liberal cousins in Ottawa. You

should talk to them to pony up and pay for the health care services seniors need in our province.

LONG-TERM CARE

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Minister of Health. In 1996 your government abandoned the minimum requirement

of two and a quarter hours per day of nursing care for seniors in nursing homes. Today our seniors are lucky if they receive 14 minutes of nursing care from a registered nurse in a nursing

home.

Recently a coalition of health care and seniors' organizations released a report based upon hearings they held across the province and they said your

government's neglect of seniors amounts to nothing less than elder abuse. Our health critic, Frances Lankin, attended those hearings and heard horror stories while participating in the forums

across the province. Now an independent journalist confirms the horrific situations, such as seniors left for hours lying in their own excrement and urine. Minister, will you immediately restore at

least a minimum of two and a quarter hours of nursing care per patient so that our seniors can live in the dignity they deserve?

Hon Tony Clement (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I want to put before this House some other facts that might be of relevance; for

instance, the 16% increase in the per diem rate for long-term-care facilities that was pursued by this government in 2001-02 in comparison to 1996-97, after we got elected. Indeed it is our

position that for the first time in many years this government is providing not only operating funding, but also capital funding of an increased nature to our long-term-care facilities. We are

reducing the waits. We are reducing the feeling that this is only for a privileged few. We are trying to open up the opportunity for more citizens to have a place in an excellent senior citizens'

home, a nursing home, a long-term-care facility, whatever terminology you wish to use. Yes, this area of care has been chronically underfunded in governments gone by and years gone by. We are

seeking to fix this problem as quickly as we can.

Mr Hampton: Minister, it's your government that has presided over the mammoth reduction in nursing care per patient. That's the issue, the

quality of care patients are receiving, and your government has presided over a deliberate cut in that service. That's why our seniors are curling up and dying. That's why they're not getting the

care they need. It really boils down to this: you've got $2.25 billion in bloated tax cuts for corporations. Why don't you have the money to ensure that seniors get the level of nursing care they

deserve? Why do they have to continue to be deprived by your government?

Hon Mr Clement: The honourable member is engaging in some terminology that some would find reckless or rhetorical, certainly rhetorical. The

honourable member should be aware that in fact we have increased funding for long-term-care facilities, both operating and capital. We believe it is an essential component for our health care

system. We believe it is important for the future of our health care system. We have been funding it to a greater extent than previous governments, not only on the operating but on the capital as

well.

We have had to move forward, quite frankly, from the hole that was dug by the previous NDP government that did not invest either in capital or in operating to

the extent that was necessary. We have had to fix the mistakes that were made by previous governments. It is a process that has taken some time. It would have taken less time if the honourable

members, when they were in government, would have done the right thing.

Mr Hampton: The coalition of seniors' organizations and people concerned with home care brought forward a number of recommendations to you.

They recommended that you restore the minimum level of nursing care to two and a quarter hours a day per patient. They recommended that you do something about the acute nursing shortage. They

recommended an independent commission to look at the kinds of services that seniors need not only in nursing homes but in terms of home care.

The question is, Minister, are you prepared to do any of those things, or are you happy with the situation as it now stands?

Hon Mr Clement: We will continue to invest in our long-term-care facilities. We will continue to build brand new facilities that are up to

excellent standards. I myself have been involved in the celebration of new long-term-care facilities that are on-line, both the commercial ones as well as the municipal ones as well as the

charitable ones. They are all being built; they are all open or in the process of being constructed for citizenry in Ontario. I encourage the honourable member to visit some of the new facilities.

He will see, without a doubt, the best facilities that are being built on the continent. They are absolutely stupendous in terms of the new services they offer as well as the conditions in which

our seniors will find themselves.

So the answer is yes, we are investing. Yes, we're investing in capital. Yes, we're investing in operating. It has taken us a while to get out of the hole that

was dug by the previous NDP government, but I can assure the member that we are making progress.

WALKERTON TRAGEDY

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is to the Minister of the Environment. We've said from the beginning that your

wrong-headed cuts to the Ministry of the Environment and to environmental protection led to the tragedy of Walkerton. You have denied that, but evidence mounts that that's the case. In 1996,

cabinet was warned that cuts to the Ministry of the Environment would increase the risk to human health, but you didn't listen. You tried to deny it.

Now we know that in 1997, the Ontario chief medical officer of health and the health minister both warned that privatizing the testing labs meant that the

medical officer of health wouldn't be told immediately of adverse drinking water samples. They asked you to change the legislation to protect the integrity of our drinking water. Your government

didn't do anything. In fact, you denied there was a problem.

Minister, in light of the seven deaths and the over 2,000 people rendered seriously ill at Walkerton, what do you say now? What's your excuse for ignoring the

advice that was so clearly given to your government in 1996?

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of the Environment): As the leader of the third party knows full well, our government has made protection of

the environment a priority. Also, Justice O'Connor, of course, is conducting an inquiry. As the member full well knows, it would be inappropriate for us at this time to prejudge the outcome of that

inquiry in Walkerton.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Michael A. Brown): Supplementary, the member for Toronto-Danforth.

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): Minister, it has now been confirmed that you were warned time and time again, yet you took no steps as

the then Minister of Health to have the legislation fixed. None of you over there took any steps after you were repeatedly warned. Now not one of you will take any responsibility for the tragedy

that happened in Walkerton. As far as I'm concerned, Minister, you all have blood on your hands over there. People died in Walkerton --

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: Order. You will need to withdraw that.

Ms Churley: I withdraw, Speaker.

It is time that somebody over there, with all the evidence we have, takes some responsibility for what happened in Walkerton. I'm asking you today as the now

Minister of the Environment, who had been warned by the previous Minister of the Environment, Norm Sterling, about the problems there, and by the previous Minister of Health, Mr Wilson, and you

paid no attention and didn't fix it, will you today at least own up to that?

Hon Mrs Witmer: Our government has introduced Operation Clean Water, and we have taken steps in order to ensure that the residents of this

province have the cleanest drinking water possible. In fact, we introduced the drinking water protection regulation, which, as the member of the third party knows full well, is among the toughest

regulations of water systems anywhere in the world. We take our responsibility seriously to not only the citizens in Walkerton but citizens throughout the province of Ontario, and we have moved

forward very aggressively in order to ensure that all guidelines became regulations, in order to ensure that we could protect the public health of people throughout Ontario.

COMMUNITY CARE ACCESS CENTRES

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): This is for the Minister of Health. Minister, I have in my hand a copy of the report you

released today, prepared by PricewaterhouseCoopers on Ontario's community care access centres. You've had this in your hands for six months now. I was surprised about what I did not find in here.

To quote just a couple of the sections, it says, "Many CCACs are challenged to meet growing demands for service with their current funding allocations." Under "Areas for Improvement" it says, "need

for more resources." It's got a

section on recommendations, and it says, "strengthen CCACs; support CCACs; invest in CCACs."

Given the fact that you had frozen funding for CCACs, I have perused this report and if I'm missing it, please tell me where it is, but my understanding is

that this report speaks in support of additional funding and support for CCACs. Why have you ignored your own report?

Hon Tony Clement (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): The honourable member has done a good job of cherry-picking certain aspects of the

report. Let me elucidate a bit further for this House some of the other findings of the report, which incidentally were arrived at in co-operation with the CCACs because they are absolutely a

critical component of our health care in Ontario: "lack of common understanding among CCACs and stakeholders on the mandate and performance...; variability in CCAC policies, scope of services and

practice"; waiting lists with relation to the variability and some difference in terms of which policies they are applying and which policies they're not applying; "service maximums and homemaking

criteria different among different CCACs."

The answer to the honourable member's question is, yes, I'm willing to say that perhaps the 72% increase in the budget may not be the final answer when it

comes to CCAC funding in the future for the province of Ontario, but before we go there, how about making sure that the money the citizens of Ontario spend on home care for seniors and the disabled

is spent in the best way possible?

Mr McGuinty: I'm just wondering why you're ignoring your own report, Minister. I'll draw your attention to something found on page 145 under

the recommendation entitled "Investment." It says, "The following findings suggest that the current CCAC funding allocation requires enhancement." They talk about the problem with waiting lists.

They talk about the problem with deficits. Half of the CCACs were then forecasting deficits. They talk about how difficult it is for service providers to recruit and retain front-line staff. They

talk about an aging population. They talk about growing consumer demand. They make a pretty powerful and compelling and cogent argument for increased resources for additional funding for CCACs in

Ontario so that they can carry out their important responsibilities.

So again, I ask you, why have you ignored your own report, which asks for an increase in resources, and instead frozen the budget?

Hon Mr Clement: The absolute answer is we're not; we're simply reading all of the report, which I encourage the honourable member to do at his

leisure. All of the report indicates, due to its recommendations, that we have to clarify the mandate, the accountability relationships, the performance measures that need to be in place. We have

to enhance the financial management to improve on the inconsistencies in the services. That's what the report says as well.

The honourable member is, I think, guilty of selective reading. Maybe that's the way he'd like to run his government in the future; I don't know. But I

encourage the honourable member that if he aspires to higher office, he should read all of the report, A to Z, one to 50, all of the recommendations, before he announces to the world what his

judgment is, because in this case his judgment is fatally flawed.

MINING INDUSTRY

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): My question is for the Minister of Northern Development and Mines. Minister, as you're well aware, the

Fraser Institute recently ranked the mining industry in Ontario number one in Canada and third in the world. The province made significant gains in terms of world ranking, moving to third in

2000-01. This report recognizes the Mike Harris government's commitment to encouraging a vibrant mining industry in Ontario.

Minister, my constituents are elated to see that the Mike Harris government continues to work hard for the mining industry in Ontario to create an attractive

mining investment destination. Can you tell us what initiatives your ministry has taken to promote investment in Ontario's mining industry?

Hon Dan Newman (Minister of Northern Development and Mines): I'd like to thank the member for Parry Sound-Muskoka for his excellent question.

In the last couple of years the Mike Harris government has implemented various policies to make Ontario an attractive place to invest in mining. We have reduced the Ontario mining tax rate from 20%

to 10% over five years. We have increased tax incentives provided for investors in flow-through shares. We've also introduced a 10-year mining tax exemption for new remote mines in our province. We

are continuing to actively promote Ontario's mineral industry internationally, through Market Ontario. We provided $3 million last year for advanced technologies for mineral exploration.

This is just a short list of what the Mike Harris government has done to make Ontario an attractive place to invest.

Mr Miller: I would like to thank the Minister of Northern Development and Mines for his response. Minister, I can assure you that those who

work and invest in the mining industry are grateful for your hard work in making Ontario an attractive place to invest. Can you outline for us some of the programs your ministry is undertaking to

promote growth in the mining industry?

Hon Mr Newman: I want like to thank the member for Parry Sound-Muskoka for his supplementary question. The Ministry of Northern Development

and Mines has recently funded various programs to support the mining industry. These programs include an allocation of $19 million for airborne and regional surveys for Operation Treasure Hunt; a

four-year, $27-million mine rehabilitation program; a contribution of $6.8 million to a mining R&D program at Laurentian University; a contribution of $1.6 million from the heritage fund to set

up a world-class mining innovation centre in Sudbury. We've adopted information technology, like ClaimsMap II, to improve client service to the mining industry, and we've introduced amendments to

the Mining Act to improve mineral exploration, mine rehabilitation provisions and to reduce administrative burden to clients.

We recognize there is still more to do and we will not rest on our accomplishments. We will not rest until we are ranked not only number one in Canada but

number one in the world.

EDUCATION FUNDING

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): To the Minister of Education: Minister, let me tell you something about public education under

this government. I've had the opportunity now to sit through some hearings in St Catharines and I strongly recommend the experience to you; that is, actually going to the front lines and hearing

from real people about their real concerns about your new private school voucher. One of the things we keep hearing about is your cuts to education when it comes specifically to new textbooks for

the grade 11 class for next year. You have cut the funding in half. The Lambton-Kent board last year received half a million dollars to purchase new textbooks for the grade 10 classes; this year

they're going to receive less than half of that, $244,000, for new textbooks.

Madam Minister, the question I have for you on behalf of Ontario's working families and their children inside the publicly funded education system is, why is

it that you can find $500 million in education dollars for private schools but you don't have enough money to ensure that students in the public system have textbooks.

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Education, Government House Leader): The honourable member has asked this question before. We've put forward the

facts of the case. He doesn't seem to wish to reflect on those facts. Spending on the public education system for this upcoming school year has increased yet again. Over $360 million in new dollars

has gone out to our school boards to help them deliver quality education for our students. Second, we continue to provide textbook funding in two ways: (1) it is part of the foundation grant, as it

always has been, and (2) we continue to put in special top-up money for new textbooks to reflect the fact that the new curriculum does require additional resources.

Mr McGuinty: The facts here are beyond dispute, Madam Minister. You've found $500 million in education dollars for private schools but you've

cut the textbook funding for public schools in half.

Your MPP for the area, Marcel Beaubien, made this observation in the Sarnia Observer:

"`How many books do you need?' asked Beaubien, who suggested the board is spending the money on other things.

"`A $6,400 grant the province provides for each student in the public school system is more than enough,' he said.

"`I'm telling you it is properly funded. How do I know that? Because Christian schools ... do it for less than $4,000 a student. And the kids coming out of

there aren't dummies.'"

Madam Minister, I'm just wondering now, is this your new ideal? Do you think we should be funding students in the public system, all students in the public

system, understanding that the public system must accept all students including those with special learning needs -- are you telling us that you should now be funding public schools at the level of

$4,000? Is that what you're telling us?

Hon Mrs Ecker: First of all, if the honourable member would like to put facts on the table, he should try using some. It might be helpful in

the debate today.

Secondly, some school boards have chosen -- as a matter of fact, some have reported publicly to their communities that they have chosen -- to use money

directed for textbooks for other classroom priorities. That is a decision those trustees have chosen to make.

Thirdly, we have provided resources as part of the regular foundation grants for curriculum learning materials and as part of new top-up money we have given

every year for textbooks and learning materials.

But the other thing that is also important for the honourable member to recognize is that some of the materials that are currently in classrooms can be used

for some of the new curriculum. They haven't rewritten Hamlet since we introduced the curriculum. So there are resources for those school boards to deliver quality education.

ACADEMIC TESTING

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): Mr Speaker, if I may: unlike the Liberal leader, I know our education minister meets regularly with the front-line

people involved in education, unless it's a photo-op for him.

Minister, as you know, back in January approximately 63,000 first-semester grade 9 students wrote the province-wide math test. The rest of Ontario's grade 9

students who are enrolled in the second-semester or full-year math classes are now completing those tests. These students and their parents are anxious to see the results of their efforts for a

variety of reasons. For instance, they want to see how well they have learned the new material. A concern has been expressed to me that the students have not yet received the full results. Will you

please tell me when the students will learn the results of those exams?

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Education, Government House Leader): Thank you to my honourable colleague for mentioning the work I do in meeting

with our front-line staff. Even in my own riding, when the Liberal opposition was out there playing politics, running around neighbourhoods, I was with teachers and students and parents, helping

children to spell better with the wonderful Durham spelling bee. So we were out there helping kids to learn better while his folks were out there playing politics.

In the testing we do, the Education Quality and Accountability Office has been following the normal process. I would like to assure the honourable member that

the exams that students have taken are being marked this summer according to the usual timelines, and those results will be available for parents and for schools this fall. It's an important source

of information for students, for teachers and for parents to help children learn better.

Mr O'Toole: Thank you, Minister, for that very informative and, I might say, timely response. Parents and students look forward to seeing

these fairly marked this fall.

Minister, another step you took about a week ago was to announce a new reading program to help students prepare for the grade 3 test. Could you elaborate on

what sort of support you're providing for these grade 3 students to do the test?

Hon Mrs Ecker: It's really important to recognize that the goal of our education plan is to improve student achievement. We've started with

the test results. The testing helps identify where there are gaps so children can learn better. The testing has certainly confirmed what we knew, that our students were not getting what they needed

in order to succeed, so we've got the new curriculum. We have the testing, and there's validity to that testing. We are now requiring school boards and schools to start setting improvement targets.

We've done this with the grade 3 testing for this upcoming school year.

Second, we continue to invest targeted funds for this. For example, in this upcoming school year, there is going to be almost $100 million specifically

targeted for remediation, for helping students from kindergarten to grade 3, and for helping students in the higher grades to develop better literacy skills.

STEEL INDUSTRY

Mr Tony Martin (Sault Ste Marie): My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Trade. Minister, I wrote to you in February

about the circumstances confronting the steel industry in this province, telling you how difficult it was. You wrote back saying that you had talked to the federal government.

We know that in my community of Sault Ste Marie it is playing itself out very seriously and concretely. I am here today not to ask you for help but to suggest

some things you could do that would bring some relief to my community as it struggles with this very serious and immediate challenge.

You could talk to your government ask them to give the hospitals the green light to go ahead and build the new facility they have on the books. You could talk

to your government and ask them to work with the municipality to give them the permission they need to move on the building of the new sewage treatment plant and holding tanks. You could also come

to the community and speak to the leaders of my community around the possibility of a trade adjustment fund.

Will you do some of those things to help my community?

Hon Robert W. Runciman (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): Both the Ministry of Economic Development and Trade and the Ministry of

Northern Development and Mines have been in close contact with the company. We recognize the community's concerns. Both Minister Newman and I have spoken at length with the president, Sandy Adam,

from Algoma. Officials from both ministries have met with officials of the company. We are certainly trying to assist them in any way we can as well as the community.

Both ministers hope to be in the position of being able to visit the community in the near future to discuss the proposals you've mentioned here today and

concerns surrounding Algoma and be of as much assistance as we possibly can in this situation.

Mr Martin: I thank you for that, Minister, but this challenge is immediate and serious. There are small businesses and industries in my

community, there are working people and families who are in crises, because of the effect of the restructuring at Algoma Steel on the broader community. I am asking you, will you work with your

government to encourage them to do some things that could have some immediate effect? Earlier today you talked about a consultation you're going to take around the province to look at new sectors

that are emerging. I am telling you there are some sectors already existing that have served this province well that need protection. You need to be protecting jobs as well as developing new

ones.

Will you come to Sault Ste Marie and talk to my community about the hospital, the sewage treatment plant and the holding tanks? Flow that money. Will you set

up, with the Minister of Northern Development and Mines, because he has $157 million still left in the northern heritage fund --

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Michael A. Brown): Thank you. The question has been asked. Minister.

Hon Mr Runciman: This government certainly is concerned. Our actions over the past number of years to try and assist in the diversification of

the economy of Sault Ste Marie are very tangible evidence of our interest and concern. In the past few weeks I've also met with federal Minister Pettigrew. I have spoken with the Minister of

Industry, Mr Tobin, with respect to the federal government's lack of actions in terms of the number of trade disputes and flooding the market with cheap imports.

Clearly, we are concerned. We are taking action. We are trying to assist the community in every way possible. If the member can be a little bit patient, he

will see some further tangible evidence of that concern this week.

EMERGENCY SERVICES

Mrs Lyn McLeod (Thunder Bay-Atikokan): My question is for the Minister of Health. Minister, your government has tried to make the emergency

room crisis go away by blaming it on the flu, hiding the number of hours that hospitals are on critical care bypass and saying repeatedly that you have fixed the problem once and for all. But the

problem has not gone away.

Emergency room backlogs are worse now than they have ever been in the history of this province. The number of hours that emergency rooms in the Toronto area

are on critical bypass is almost 100 times greater today than it was in 1996 when your cuts started. The problem has become 100 times worse since you became the government.

On Friday you told hospital administrators to come up with ideas to fix the problem in two weeks. They have been trying for five years to tell your government

what is needed. They need more beds, they need more nurses, and they need more money.

Minister, are you finally ready to hear what they've been trying to tell you for five years?

Hon Tony Clement (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I can assure the honourable member that the hospitals in question have indicated

quite a few things that they are working on, that we can work on together, that can be of benefit with respect to the issues you have raised so that this is a meaningful consultation. To

characterize it as "Come up with all of the solutions and implement them in two weeks" is not the way I characterized it. I don't know where that characterization came from.

Secondly, the honourable member, in a rather dismissive way, mentioned our flu vaccine program, of which we're quite proud. It was one of the most successful

programs in North America and it has, I think, had a meaningful impact in saving lives. So I would encourage the honourable member not to be so dismissive.

Finally, to look at one hospital in particular, the University Health Network, right in the downtown of Toronto, their capacity has increased by 33% as a

result of the government of Ontario's investments in emergency rooms, which we will continue to do.

Mrs McLeod: Minister, listen to what Murray MacKenzie, the chief administrative officer of North York General, is saying. He says the system

is extremely fragile, that long waits in emergency rooms will be even longer this summer.

Tom Closson, president of University Health Network, says the problem is getting worse, that they have never before seen people treated on stretchers in

emergency room hallways while ambulances wait hours in hospital driveways to be able to deliver their critically ill patients.

Your parliamentary assistant says that you're going to try and solve the problem by hiring more private ambulances. Do you still not understand the problem? It

doesn't matter how many ambulances you put out there when our hospitals are full. Seriously ill patients need to be admitted to hospital, and there is no room for them. It's as basic as that.

That's why they're being treated in hallways; that's why they're waiting in driveways.

Minister, will you do what Dalton McGuinty has been calling for for a year and a half: stop closing emergency rooms and reopen at least 1,600 of the 2,200 beds

you closed in Toronto alone?

Hon Mr Clement: The honourable member cites North York. Of course, North York General in September, 2000, opened a new $3.1-million ER

department as a result of this government's decision, so I think the citizens of North York have something very positive to say.

The honourable member, who is no longer with us, indicated, "What about St Michael's?" Well, in October of last year we announced $4.5 million of capital

funding to expand St Michael's ER capacity. Certainly the facts speak louder than the rhetoric.

The honourable member mentions the Leader of the Opposition and his plans. I can only quote the honourable member while he was aspiring for higher office when

he said, "One of the things that we've got to do is this: to instill our hospital administrators with a sense of accountability to the system and not just to their own institution." I agree with

that Dalton McGuinty; I don't agree with this Dalton McGuinty.

HIGHWAY 410

Mr Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound): My question is for the Minister of Transportation.

About a year and a half ago the ministry held a meeting with my counties of Bruce and Grey and the city of Owen Sound. They had all these great drawings there,

lots of nice pictures and everything about the extension north of the 410 up to 10. As I say, that was about a year and a half ago. They promised it would start going very soon, and we had about a

five-year plan. Now, I hope we're not down to more of this five years; I hope we're only down to four and it's going to be done.

What happened there? There were survey stakes put up about a year and a half ago, and I've been coming back here now for a year and a half, and nothing's

happened. Mr Minister, I'd like to know what's happening out there. Are we going to get this extension up to 410?

Hon Brad Clark (Minister of Transportation): I thank the member for Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound for his question. I have to state that the man is

relentless in his advocacy for his constituents.

On the issue of the extension of Highway 410, we've already undergone the environmental assessment process. We're now dealing with a cost-sharing partnership

which is agreed upon with the region of Peel, and we've undertaken the extensive design work. The difficulty we now have and the reason it has slowed down somewhat is that we're now in the property

acquisition phase. It has been a little bit slower than expected, but the negotiations are going well and we expect to resolve it soon.

Mr Murdoch: It's good to hear that you're still working on that, because we were getting concerned in Bruce and Grey and Owen Sound that maybe

something got stalled and our money went somewhere else, and we didn't want that to happen.

OK, that's great. That will get Highway 410 to Highway 10. Then we still have a problem: we've got to get all the way up to Owen Sound on Highway 10. If you go

from where Highway 410 meets Highway 10, there's quite a bottleneck there, especially right up through Orangeville and Caledon. I don't know whether you've ever gone through there, but I think

probably some entrepreneur could set up a hotdog stand at Caledon and make a lot of money, because it takes you about two hours to get through that intersection at night.

Mr Minister, what about the work from there on up? As I say, we had these nice drawings and they looked nice on paper, but that's as far as it has gone. When

will we get started on Highway 10 from Highway 410 to Orangeville?

Hon Mr Clark: I thank the member for the question. The member is very well aware of the process in terms of how we actually put the highways

in and get the shovels in the ground. We go through a needs assessment, we go through an environmental assessment. Then there's the design phase. That's where we're at with a number of these

highways and in terms of Highway 10. Then, at that point in time, we also deal with property acquisition.

The widening of Highway 10: the plans are underway right now for that particular portion of it. I've actually met with the member, and he understands that. I'd

be more than happy to meet with his mayor and the people from that community. It's important for everyone to understand that we have actually committed, over five years, $5.3 billion for highways.

When it comes to the north, since 1995 we've committed $1.1 billion.

The Liberals keep heckling on the amount of money we've spent on highways, but in their best year they spent $342 million.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): My question is to the Minister of Health and no home care. Minister, I have a question for you

about Quinte Healthcare, an organization --

Hon Robert W. Runciman (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: The Chair has clearly indicated that you

have to use the proper ministerial name when posing a question. That member is clearly out of order.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Michael A. Brown): I'm sorry, I didn't hear that, but could he withdraw?

Mr Parsons: It must have been a Freudian slip, Speaker. I withdraw that. This is to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Minister, your ministry has chronically underfunded Quinte Healthcare Corp, in spite of promises made to fund it. We have seen this board of Quinte Healthcare

unprepared to make the cuts to services that would have brought this so-called reward or efficiencies money. I will give you an example of the crisis that you have created in my area.

You have introduced the triage system into the hospital which requires a patient to be assessed within 15 minutes. I applaud you for that. I applaud you for

taking Dalton McGuinty's idea and putting it in place in our hospitals. You have funded not one penny of it. That has required the hospital to take nearly $1 million out of the nursing operation

and use it for triage. We now have the insanity that a patient can get assessed as to their problem within 15 minutes --

The Deputy Speaker: Thank you. Minister.

Hon Tony Clement (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I thank the honourable member for the question. Indeed, on this side of the House we

did act on Premier Harris's campaign commitment in terms of emergency room triage, as well as a minimum of 60 hours for those mothers who have given birth.

When it comes to the care at Quinte Healthcare, the honourable member mentioned our funding based on performance. It was based on a number of criteria, one of

which was performance; another was on the basis of growth and another was that if we had just finished bailing you out the week before, we weren't going to bail you out a second time and double

bail you out. It was a question of ensuring that the right money went to the right health centres.

I can tell the honourable member that we are currently in very meaningful discussions with Quinte Healthcare with respect to its operating budget. We will

ensure that the honourable member's position is taken into account.

Mr Parsons: Minister, you didn't bail out; you provided money that should have been provided initially.

Within Quinte Healthcare Corp they have cancer care treatment. Surely nothing could be a higher priority than that. It served 4,900 patients last year, a 30%

increase. Your ministry says this is not a priority program and you will provide no specific funding.

Minister, surely you need to have a plan that recognizes cancer treatment is a priority. Will you commit to properly fund the Quinte Healthcare oncology

clinic?

Hon Mr Clement: Again, we are presently reviewing all the operating plans for all the hospitals, including the one in the honourable member's

constituency, and we'll endeavour to do so in a fair and equitable manner. I can tell the honourable member that we also have regional cancer centres that we have been funding and building and

creating at an increasing rate throughout the province of Ontario. I myself joined the Windsor members at the opening of the Windsor regional cancer centre. So these are not just my words; they are

actually happening.

I can assure the honourable member's constituents that effective cancer care is a top priority of this government. That's why the budget for Cancer Care

Ontario has increased by 42% and that's why we have been funding, at a record amount, hospital funding, including cancer care funding that occurs within hospitals.

TRAVEL INDUSTRY COMPENSATION FUND

Mr Raminder Gill (Bramalea-Gore-Malton-Springdale): My question is for the Minister of Consumer and Business Services. Over the weekend I read

an

article about a tour operator declaring bankruptcy. I realize there are protections available to people who book tours through Ontario travel agents and later have the company they were dealing

with fall into financial straits. Minister, could you please inform this House what protection is available to Ontario consumers who have booked tours and later had the company unable to provide

the service?

Hon Norman W. Sterling (Minister of Consumer and Business Services): Consumers in Ontario -- the citizens of Ontario -- are very lucky in

having travel industry legislation which protects them if something should go wrong with their holiday plans. In 1997 we set up TICO, the Travel Industry Council of Ontario. TICO has taken the

insurance fund, which was then about $2 million, up to about $15 million at the present time, to protect future travellers who would go to other parts of Ontario, other parts of Canada and other

parts of the world. Last year they were fortunate; there were very few failures. What happens in this particular system is it encourages retailers and the travel industry to be responsible. They

only spent $82,000 last year.

Mr Gill: I realize that in some rare instances Ontario tourists have had to deal with the fact that a tour they had paid for was not being

provided. Acting in good faith and signing an agreement, these consumers are paying for a product that isn't being provided.

Minister, could you tell us what TICO has in place to help Ontario consumers deal with these rare occurrences?

Hon Mr Sterling: I think we should make it clear that anybody who phones a travel agent who is registered here in Ontario gets the protection.

In fact, I have heard anecdotally of people calling in from states like New York, Michigan or Ohio and booking their trips here in Ontario to ensure that they had this travel insurance.

Payments are given to any single traveller up to an amount of $3,500, and the insurance fund will pay up to $5 million for any one event that should occur in

terms of getting people back from a far destination, in terms of their accommodation and those kinds of things. The compensation fund, as I mentioned earlier, has grown significantly. Therefore it

requires that the partners pay less and less into this compensation. It has been a great --

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Michael A. Brown): Thank you. New question.

EMERGENCY SERVICES

Ms Frances Lankin (Beaches-East York): My question is to the Minister of Health. I want to return to the issue of emergency rooms. Minister,

in the members' gallery here there are a number of men and women from Toronto's emergency medical services. I want to ask you to come across the floor after question period and speak to them. I

want you to hear at first hand what it's like sitting for hours in the driveways of emergency rooms waiting to take your patient in, what it's like to be transporting persons from one side of

University Avenue to the other and having that patient die of a heart attack. I want you to tell them why you won't listen when all the experts are telling you that we need to fund more home care

to keep seniors out of the hospital beds so that those beds are freed up for the patients they carry to the emergency rooms.

Minister, will you at the end of question period come across and speak with these men and women, the experts in the field, and hear what they have to say?

Hon Tony Clement (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I regret to inform the member that I have a very important meeting with Canadian

Blood Services, which I am hesitant to cancel, but I would undertake to meet with the individuals at a later time.

I can tell the honourable member that indeed we have been funding home care to a much more accelerated extent than the previous government. We have been

funding long-term-care facility creation so we can move patients out of the acute care wings of hospitals into more appropriate long-term-care facilities. We have increased funding for our

hospitals to $8.5 billion, the largest amount of funding in the history of Ontario. So we are doing the things she mentions. It's also incumbent upon all of those institutions to ensure that the

money goes toward patient care, that it goes forward accountably, and we have to work with them in that regard as well. If the honourable member has any suggestions in that regard, I would

certainly take them under advisement.

Ms Lankin: What I would suggest is that the cuts that are being implemented in Toronto to home care as we speak, Minister, be halted

immediately; that you give a direction to the CCACs to stop the cuts in hours and stop the elimination of hours, because those elderly citizens are going to end up in the backs of the ambulances

that these dedicated men and women use to transport them and treat them on transport to our emergency rooms. When they arrive in the emergency rooms, they're going to be left in the driveways and

then in the hallways, without access to the treatment they need.

If you immediately stop the cuts in services, I can guarantee you that you will not worsen the problem, you will not create more of a backlog, which those cuts

will in fact do, Minister. All through this, you have debated and said that you've put more money in. I'm telling you that the cuts that are happening today are going to make a worsening of the

backlog. Will you stop those cuts?

Hon Mr Clement: It comes as no surprise to the member that I would disagree with her characterization. In fact, the cuts she mentions are

fictitious. If you look at 1994-95 fiscal year, we funded $111 million to Toronto for home care. This year it's $238 million. That hardly qualifies as a cut. Included in our increased expenditures

was $550 million to enhance community health services, including an extra $64 million this year. That's a $64-million increase this year. So the honourable member is barking up the wrong tree. We

would certainly continue to demand accountability and excellent management practices for home care, but our commitment cannot be doubted.

PETITIONS

HOME CARE

Mr Rick Bartolucci (Sudbury): These petitions are a part of the petition campaign which has been launched by Bob Fera, the chair of our

community care access centre and immediate past chair of the Ontario Association of Community Care Access Centres. This petition is to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas the need for home care services is rapidly growing in Ontario due to the aging of the population and hospital restructuring; and

"Whereas the prices paid by community care access centres to purchase home care services for their clients are rising due to factors beyond the control of

community care access centres; and

"Whereas the funding provided by the Ontario government through the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care is inadequate to meet the growing need for home care

services; and

"Whereas the funding shortfall, coupled with the implications of Bill 46, the Public Sector Accountability Act, currently before the Legislature are forcing

CCACs to make deep cuts in home care services without any policy direction from the provincial government;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"

(1) That the Legislative Assembly direct the provincial government to take control of policy-setting for home care services through rational, population-based

health care planning rather than simply by underfunding the system; and

"

(2) That the Legislative Assembly direct the provincial government to provide sufficient funding to CCACs to support the home care services that are the

mandate of CCACs in the volumes needed to meet their communities' rapidly growing needs; and

(3) That the Legislative Assembly make it necessary for the provincial government to notify the agencies it funds of the amount of funding they will be given

by the government in a fiscal year at least three (3) months before the commencement of this fiscal year."

Of course I affix my signature to this petition because I care about the sick, the frail and the elderly.

Ms Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"Whereas the Manitoulin-Sudbury Community Care Access Centre delivers vital home care services to local seniors, the disabled and those discharged from

hospital so they can remain in their own homes;" and

"Whereas the Manitoulin-Sudbury Community Care Access Centre needs an additional $1.8 million from the Ministry of Health this fiscal year just to deliver its

current level of health care services; and

"Whereas the Ministry of Health has refused to fund this necessary increase and has further failed to provide the CCAC with equity funding last year and this

year, despite a 1998 promise by the former Minister of Long-Term Care, Cam Jackson, to do so; and

"Whereas this deliberate underfunding by the government of the Manitoulin-Sudbury CCAC has forced the CCAC board to adopt a deficit-reduction plan which

severely reduces the home care services it provides; and

"Whereas this reduction has a drastic impact on clients who cannot afford to pay for these services and will be forced to go without necessary care;

"Therefore,

be it resolved that the Conservative government immediately fund the additional $1.8 million requested by the Manitoulin-Sudbury CCAC this year,

and further, provide the equity funding which was promised" -- by this government -- "in 1998."

Of course I agree with the petitioners. They are from my riding. I've affixed my signature to this.

EDUCATION TAX CREDIT

Mr Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): I have a petition here to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas wide parental and student choice are essential to the best possible education for all students; and

"Whereas many people believe that an education with a strong faith component, be it Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu or another religion, is best for their

children; and

"Whereas many people believe that special education methodologies such as those practised in the Montessori and Waldorf schools are best for their children;

and

"Whereas over 100,000 students are currently enrolled in the independent schools of Ontario; and

"Whereas an effective way to enhance the education of those students is to allow an education tax credit for a portion of the tuition fees paid for that

education;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To pass the budget bill giving tax credits to parents of children who attend independent schools as soon as possible."

Thank you very much for providing me with the opportunity to present his petition today.

Mr Dave Levac (Brant): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas tax credits for private schools will create two-tier education;

"Whereas the government's plan is to give parents a $3,500 enticement to pull their kids out of public schools;

"Whereas tax credits for private schools will encourage the growth of a segregated society of narrowly focused interests;

"Whereas tax credits for private schools will steal money from an already cash-starved public system and deliver public money to special interests who do not

have to account for its use;

"Whereas tax credits for private schools effectively create a voucher system in Ontario;

"Whereas the Harris government has no mandate to introduce such a measure,

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly as follows:

"We call on the government of Ontario to withdraw its plan for two-tiered education and properly fund public education in Ontario."

I sign my name to this petition.

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): I've got a petition. It's addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario and says:

"We the undersigned students, teachers and parents are in opposition to the Ontario Progressive Conservative's proposed Bill 45, which would see public tax

dollars used to fund private schools through a system of tax credits. This bill promotes a two-tier education system with one set of schools for the wealthy and one set of schools for the less

privileged; undermines the concept of a public education system equally accessible to all, regardless of social class, religion or race; encourages segregation and isolation of religious groups,

therefore undermining the multicultural aspect of Ontario's education system; paves the way for future privatization of public services,

"Therefore we, the undersigned, oppose the passage of Bill 45."

It's signed by James Sandham, who collected these signatures, a bright young Crossley Secondary School student from Fonthill, and 351 others.

PROTECTION OF MINORS

Ms Marilyn Mushinski (Scarborough Centre): I have a petition that's addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario that reads as

follows:

"Whereas children are being exposed to sexually explicit materials in many commercial establishments; and

"Whereas many municipalities do not have bylaws in place to protect minors and those that do vary from place to place and have failed to protect minors from

unwanted exposure to sexually explicit materials;

"Whereas uniform standards are needed in Ontario that would make it illegal to sell, rent, loan or display sexually explicit materials to minors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To pass Bill 95, Protection of Minors from Sexually Explicit Goods and Services Act, 2000, as soon as possible."

I'm pleased to affix my signature to this petition.

EDUCATION TAX CREDIT

Mr Bruce Crozier (Essex): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas tax credits for private schools will create two-tier education;

"Whereas the government plans to give parents a $3,500 enticem