Volume XLI Friday Province of Newfoundland FORTY- FIRST GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND First Session VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard) Speaker: Honourable Thomas Lush [Preliminary Transcript] Number 19 23 June 1989

The House met at 9 :00 a.m . MR . SPEAKER (Lush) : Order, pl ease! Oral Questions MR. SIMMS : Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : The hon . the Opposition House Leader. MR. SIMMS : I want to ask a couple of questions of the President of the Council, (Ml". Bakel"), who is in charge of the Cabinet, of course, lAJhE!n the Pl"E!ITJ:i .r:~l" :is not hE!I"E!, and I undersl:and thE! Pi"f~lniel" is not going to be available this morning.

I tJJould 1 i k E• l:o ask tho President of the Council: In vir:!tJJ of thE:~ admission or confession by the Premier yesterday in the House that. thc:'re tAJas another minister in his Cabinet with a conflict of :in'tr?.rE! St. or a potential conflict: of in'l:ei"est, i. r:~., thr:=! MJ.n.istel" of Justice (Mr. Dicks), ca n the President of the Council confirm for us that the Minister of Just.ice dJcl not:., :in far:t, infol"rrl \:.he Prc?.mier oF this conFlicl: oF int.<~~rest upon his being invi t.E!cl to enter the Cabinet? Ml~. SPEAI<.E _E,: Th(! hon. the Govel"niTien t:. H o u ~; r:~ L e r.Hh! r . Ml~ .

BAKER : T h a n k y o u , M I" . S pea k e r· First of all, the pre1ni se on tAJh:ich thE! CJUE!Stion is basr::!d is not_ correct. There was no conflict of intel"es t Ol" poten-t.i .al confltc t. of inl:.ei"E:'sl: or· pos~;ible confl'icl:. of L96 1:> June 23, 1989 Vol XLI intere:~st. My understanding of the situation was that the minister :in question, once he became a minister, took steps to take cart~ of tJJhclt TTJE!rnb~~I"S oppositE! Pl"E!Ceive to be a problem.

I think Lhe Premieres response was that it tAJas probably an over·sight t.hat it: tAJas n o t rn e n t:. i o n e cl t o h 'i. rn b <~' f o r· e , a n cl the Pr'E!Irrie r is tArill ing to a c c E! p l: that sirnpJ.y becauSE! aJ.l t:h:i.ngs in connection tAli th this tAJE!l"t~ done in a proper manner. MR . SIMMS : Ml" . Speake!" . Mr~ . SPEAKEr~ : The hon. l:he Opposi.l: .ion i·lous (~ L.eadet". Mr~ . SIMM~> : Thank you, r.lli". Spuakc:'r . It is l"atheln inl :.E'I"E!St-.-ing to h(•ar· the PrE!S:iclenl: oF l:.he Council 11~;::! thE! IAJOI"d I OVE!I"Sight I .

I want to ask a Mr. of supp1E!fTIE•ntai"Y, if thl:> :r: I cou1d, Sp<~a k er, to Min:istet" Just·:i.ce. understand, Fl"om n: 'lAJS J":'pOI"i·:.s, .::tl: least, l:hat the lease that the fV\'i ni_ S l~. (! j" () f-- J I! S !~ --L C 0 1': i'1 -~ r:i \) 1'~ ()lJ..J I:_J ·i 1-_-. h t.he Newfoundland Ljquor Corporation actually expired at the end of March. Can the M oi n is t: ('! r o F Jus 1:. :i. c e , i'' i. I" s L: c) !' a l. 1 , lE!ll us lAJhat 1<-.i.ncl of a deal Ol" arJ"angemE!n\: he has llktcl:~ tAril:h Lht:- Liquor Corporation? Because () b v j_ () u sly L h (' .Y d I" l:~ s l: i 11 I" E' ll 1-'L I!

CJ h:i'-~ pi"C:!rrl-.-iSI':'S, E•ven thouqh I u n cl E! I" s Land l: he y d I" e ad v t::· I" 1:. i s :i. r1 9 fot" space. S:i.nce the c::•ncl of M a I" c h , .r. u n d e ~~ s t. a n d , ~' u 1 n <'! k i n d u r: a cl e a I o I" d I" :" C\ n q e ITI t· n L , :: I" '" x 1--_ r• n ~; :i c:: n . I I . J 0 I" 0 p \:.10 n 'l d ~; ) (! f:! n U X E! I" C O'i. S ::• (' . rhat. i.s ques ·l:ion numbel" one. While a1so not, No . 19 he ts on tel.!. Lhe in fact, h:is Fe,~<::'\:, House tAJhy :infOI"In !:he could hE· he did Pl"elni;,'l" \~96 1 i

of this conflict of interest or potential conflict of interest upon his being invited to enter the Cabinet? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Justice. MR. DICKS: Mr. Speaker, in reply to the question raised by the han. Opposition House Leader, I would just like to point out several things. First of all, there is no confl.ict of int.~~rest. as such. A conflict of interest arises when a person tAJil:h a vested intE!rest negotiates, with the government, in this case, to obtain a benr:'fit . So there is no conflict of interest.

Now, to be quite f r a n k • I h r.lV e b E~ C! n a 1 alA I y e 1n i n this Pl"OV-.incE! Fo1n l:.iAJr:~lve year·s, I have certain bus iness inte rests . and il: . "is not something that one vacates immediately. What happened in this particular case was I have a bui ldi ng in Corner BJ"ook t.hat has seven tenanl:s. One of them was a long-term tenant, for the last four years. since 1985, t.~oJhich happPn s to br'• the N o IAI F o u n d 1. a n d L. i q u o I" C o 1n p o r· a l:. :i. o n . The rE!ntaJ fot" that prE!rnises had been negotiated at that time, in 1985.

It l.~oJas on a UAJo year tE!riTI ·'lnd had nol: . b::'l:~n incl"~?a·:;~;•d r=-o1" t.hat pe:'t"iod of tirnc:!, it IAli.'ts all-inclusive and was very reasonable rental to th e company in qUE!Stion. Prior to March 31 and the lease expiring. I had sorne discussions with the reg-ional manager on a casual basis l:o Find out. iF they l.~oJoulcl br::• l"r:•n::'!IAJ:ing Ol" n11 L·.. Th'"Y indicated to rne l~hat t:hey t.~oJould be renewing. As a matter of fact, in rnid·-March I l.~oJenl~ South on a vacation tAJ:i.th my farni.J.y.

While I tAJas there the elec l:.:ion IAJas ca11ed and at that time I decided to 1_966 June 23, 1989 Vo1 XU run. I cam~1 back, ran. and IAJas fortunately elected and invi tE!d into Cabinet. During that course of events, Min. Speakeln, I did not have any further, to any great extent, discussions. Upon being invited into Cabine l:.. I l.~oJas atAJat~e that this could fol"l'rl a po l:Nl i:::i a1 conflict of interest and I took attE=~mpts, and I insti"Ucted pE!op1e associated iAd.th the company to s:~e about terrrd.nating the:~ lE•as~~. And that is in fact what has been done.

I just say. in anstAll'!r to Hw hon. rnr:~rnbe:~Jn's qu~:!~;t:i.on, thal.. I appreciate that. a person in public l:ife is undc,~r scr·utiny. I t.hoink that IAJhal: has l:o be J"ecognoizecl in a caSE! J.ike this is t.hat :it takes timE! to order one's affairs. What I h C\ v E! d o n E'! I l:. h ·.:L n I< :i. s IAJ1 l. h oi. n a l"lc'asonablt=' pE!I" i.ocl of t·. i1ne. I hi::Lv:=.• al:l:ernptE•d to do that: and the Je<'\' ;1• is in l:he process oF be"i.ng terJTJ:i.natE!d. But at t·.~hr::· Si'Lrnr:! LO"in1c 1.1.1e are look.ing al:. a tl.~oJO rnonl:h period.

The election was April 20, I t.~oJas invited into Cabinet~ May ~>. and I haVE! qolven l~·.he Newfoundland liquor Corporation reasonctbl.E! pet" :iocl of L:i 1nr· l..o find a }l:. (1 r• rl i3. l: 2 p r· lc' fi"J"i S C' S . r h 1:;• I" r.:! i ~; i:

t) i·~ d J.ot of · VdCc.ll"ll: ur f""-.iCU :;pdl(;! 1< 1 Corner Btnook. They are aLt.ernptinq t.o find sornE'!l.hing su:Ll.ab1E! and l ,,, x p ,,, c !·~ t: hat··. IAJi l.: hi. n d I" c~ '"son db 1.11 ~~ h o rt pE:'l"iocl or ~ t.:·il l'l(' i·h(·,,, ,, a r r' a n g o ITI!? n t s IAii I 1 b 1:> c o n c l u cl E< d i:'l n d that t.~odJ .J be t:ho C:!ncl of l.hc matter. fhank you, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS : liE~a\n, heal"! MR . SIMMS: Ml". Spt:!al<<:!l" . MR. SPEAKER: The han . t.he Opposi l:.ion Leader. MR. SIMMS: No. 1.9 House 1~966

Mr. Speaker, I would say to the Minis-ter of Justice, if he expects this to be the end of the matter, it is strictly wishful thinking on the part of the han. Minister of Justice. And I might add, by the way, it is not up to the Minister of Justice to determine whether or not th ere is a co nflict of interest. It is not up to him to determine that. We will be pursuing this matter, Mr . Speaker, next week agatn. There is a lot more information coming forth.

Since the President of the Council and the Mini ster of Justice now have both confirm ed to the House that the minister did not, in fact, inform the Premier of this conflict of in terest or potE!n tial conflict ~ of int en:!st , I just conclud e with a final suppJ. l':~ rnentaJny to the Pl n,~sicll~nt. of the Counci.J. : Can the Pre sident of the Council advi se the House whether or not there are other mini sters in a potenl- .ial con flict of intE!r'E: ~s t or a con flict of inter est , wh o did not make this knoum to the Premi er up on entering the Cab·inet? MR. SPEAKER : The han . the Gov e 1nnrne nt HOUSE!

Lead er. Ml~. BAJ<ER: Thank you, Mr. Sp eaker . I have to remind the Opposition House Leader Lhal:. so far, in Lenns of what they have talked about and we have talked about in the House, then! is no conf1ict of interE!St, l~herl~ is no poti:H1U.al conf" .Lict . of inteJnesL. Ther·efore. obviou sl y, in tc:~r·rns of l:.his question, I cannot anst~Jer· in thf=' context that he asked it, 11 Are there any other? 11 because theine lAJer'E:' nonE'! t.o s t:.aJ"t tAli th.

However, I ulill say to him t:hat I bE:!}:il:•ve. to l:hE~ best. 1_967 June 23, J.9B9 Vo1 XLI of my knowledg e, that all positions which could potentially be conflict of interest were given to the Premier, the Premier knoJAJS about them, and if, for instance, ·there is something that I do not know about and th e Prem ier do es not know about, then I cannot po ssibly ansuJeln th e hon. rnernber on that ba sis anyway. Everything that has bE!E:~n discussE!d urith the Premier has been satisfactory to him. You see a Cabinet be fore you with no conflict of inteJnest and no poten tial conflict of in tere st-:. MR.

SIMMS : You are saying ·thE! Cabine l:. has no conflict of interest and no poten tial conflict of interest as far as we know. MR. I-JEARN: MJ" . Spr:~ak<'"r . MR . SPEAKER: The han. thE:~ rnernbeJ " fol" ;:;t.. M<:·H'Y' s -- The Cap ·l,~S. MJ~. HEARN : Thank you, Mr. Speaker . My qUE!~;L:ion :i.s l:o th(• Mini~;lr::-t" of ­ Fishet"ies 0 rhe Ulc!i"Y r--:i.I"S l_ ddy AH:· carrie into thE:' J-Jouse W"! J"a-:isE·cl t.hc,:• question of preparation For l:he cod qJ.ut.. Last tAJ<"f:'!k :::•n c! :i.L ,,,:·,,· :. a In I" 'Hl'J (~ cl l~ 0 h \:'tV'' i"l b! l i't l:. 9 Cl i n 1-. (l St.

Mar·y's Bay to adclrE>~;s l:hr::o UpCOII'linq pinoblUII'l :in Sl::Olling f"t~;h that: t~oJE:' k n E'lAJ lAJO u J. d b c;• t. h u r' E! . 0 n Monday and Tuesday l hH boat: t:'::ol< in a JneJ.at.iUE!}y fc:~.-il" diiiUUnL oi· F i s h . 0 n W e d n e s d a y • i l: tAlC\ s a d Cl!Ain day, as you alt~Ja~ts find, dncl ThuJ"sday ITJorninq, IAJhPn l:h<:' fi< ;het "nJen Cc'.tiTif:' in r"r<) !il Ll·1c··j;n l. J'·i.':p~; laden lAJi'l~h l.:het1n boal:.s Fi11l':'d l~oJ-:i l:h fish they found out lhat during l:he nighl:. the boat, under covor of dalnknl~ss, had sajJc:!cl atAJd.Y l:.o pat"ts unknotAJn.

I ask l:he Jn.in:isLeln, not~J that l~hE• Fisher·rnen up LheJ"e have• No. 19 1~967

plenty of fish, because arrangements had been made on the weekend to sell the fish, so they thought. but notAl that there is no market, what are his plans today to handle that situation? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Fi sheries . MR. W. CARTER: Thank you, Mr . Speaker. There was a slowdown in St. Mary's Bay, as the hon. member pointed out - I believ e it was on Wednesday. but som e las t the wee k and that boat tJJas t:hen sent to Petty Ha1nbou1", tJJhE!r'e thE!l"B wa s a glut. In fact, I believe in Petty Harbour it procured som ething ouer 200,000 pounds t:hat tAJOuld otherwi sE ! hav ~:! be en dumped.

The boat is trying l·.o se rVE:' bo th ar c!aS. In fact, no J.ater than l:his monling I talkl ,!d to my Deputy Minister about Lh e incident, and as soon as they find it nece ss ary that boat tAJil1 b0.1 deployed back to St. . Mary's - The Capes, hopE! fully Loday som E!U .me . MR. SPEAI<ER : rhe han. tn<::1 1nernbe1" for St. Ma1"y's -The Capes. MR . HEARN : M r . Speak c· r , I c an a p p r' e cia t. o ';,J hat the han. the min'i.s tE•r is saying, but a slowdotJJn for a day in l:he fishery is not what we term a slowdown. The ability to truck fish :is aJt ...

Jays there, and sometimes l:he lflounta:in has l:o go to MohaiTIInE•cl, and I guE•ss the St. John's an~a sometimes has to cc:nne out: <:ti"OUncl t:hr::· bay i"c:tLhe:" t.han the bay altJ.Jays coming to St. Johnn's. When I asb:'d the fil''st question I said 'it tAJas arranged.' I did not say the minister 'arranged euen though at. l:he t.:ime he l:ook Cl"edit, and I gaVE! him credit, but since L968 June 23, 1.989 Vol XLI that time the union has taken credit for rnov :ing the boat. Then we hear FANL , or the Newfound Resource Group of Companies also claiming credit in the decision making.

I would like to ask hi .m who is calling the shots on tJJhe r·e the boat goes? MR. SPEAKER : The han . the Minister of Fisheries . MR. W. CARTER: To set the record straight, Mr. Speaker, the Department of Fishel"ies is, in consultat·.i.on tAriLh the union and with FANL. but. tAlE! have the f-.inal say i.n whE:'rr;! that. b o a t g o e s . I n fa c t . t h e rn o v E! f r' o n1 St. Mary's Bay to PeLty Harbour J.ast week was done in full consul.tation, tkli .l·:h dgr·r~elnr:>nl · by thE! o the I" tt ... Jo p c:t J" L i 1':! s . U u t L h u hon. member' tkd 1.1 i·h'IVr:· l:o undE!rstancl, Mr.

SpeakE~ I", that. ·it is impossii::J1,;! t.o haVE:' an ouel~-the -.. sidE! typE! ues~;el, a f r e e z e r t r a tAll. e r , i n e u e r y bay in Newfoundland. WE• L\JE!I"E:!

Jucky Ja~d .. t.uer:'k in get:ting thal~ . ono on tJJhat we think is a reasonabJ.y good a I" r a n g ~~ ITI ~:! n t , a n d tkl e. '" I" E! l: r y i. n g 1- o rnakc:! the most. or· oit. 1( ~ t.het"(' .ls a s 1 a c k :in g 0 I' r i. n \) n 1:'' •. ~I' (' d d n d c'i, gl.ut :in another', surPly :i.t rnust. rnake sense t.hal:. t;..Je moue :il:. to t.he a t" E! a tAl h r:o t" e j t j '; n c e cl fc' cl T h r:• y '-"· I" e !'JC•'AJfouncll<'tnclei"S, 1-··:o, ,,,_nd t-h:' )Y have t. o rna k E· a J :i v :i. n q . 1 ITkt k r;! no a p o l o g y F o r h a v i n <J a g I" e r:• d t o 1 no u "' thr:~ uess~:!l fi"OITI r~iuel"hE!dd Lo P<:•t .l:.y H<:H'bour becaus• '! -Ln so do i tl•J tJJr:!

SCIVC!d fishf:!I~IIIE'I'l i.n that c~ll"~'i: l a. ·lo l. of monr:'y and a 1oL of Fi .sh Lha .l:. lAJOU}d ot.hE!I"IAJ:iSe haUE• bEH•n ciUIIIpE!cl. M r~ . ~; P 1:: A I( E R : rhe hon. t.he ITielnbeln r=·ar s L. Mdi"Y Is -The Capes. MR. HFARN : rhe fishE:'rrTIE:'n as the boat No. 19 in St . Mar·y's Bay, was lr:!auinq, lAJC:H .. I':, r~968

I'~ losing fish and have been continuing to lose fish ever since.

I ask him, in light of the fact that the caplin processors and the cod buyers are one and the same, the people tAJho have th e freezers blocked arE! the sarnr:~ people who handle cod and will be crying for cod, who are complaining because they fear they are going to lose some of their quota, because they are one and the sarne, in the sam e bed, because the union is in bed with them, because the same merchant mentality that exis ted over the years is still there - get it tA.Jhile you can and forg,:- ·l: l:he fish ermen - and in 1i.ght of the fact that the distribution desks are cornpJ.etel y in effici ent becau sE! there i.s nowh ~::'rE! to moue Fish, in light of th E! fa ct tha t th E• all oca tion to the union l:o sE!l :. up a distribution dE!Sk is a was te of mon ~;;~y, and in light of the fact that the fish~;;,rrnen arE! paying the price for this lack of organization and concern, and in light of the fact that the politi cians, thE! rn:inistE !r and a11 of us, will get th e bl ame when fi sh cannot:. be so 1cl, I as k hi .rn wh en he is going to use his pow2 r, and government USE! its pOtAII': 'tn, use the only lever l:hey have, and that :i.s conttno l on th e licE•nsE:• s is sued t o b u y e r s s o t-. h a t t h e y IAI'i 1.1 h a v e to buy cod wh en the caplin glut is th ere ra ther th an go ing ou·l: making a quick grab and leaving thE! f i s h e r tn e n t h E! 1n o tAli t h t h e i r· n e t s h i ~J h a n d d ln y ?

SOME HON. ME.MF.l E RS: Hear, hoar·! MR . SPEAKER : Th e hon. the Minister of Fisheri es. MR . W . CARrER : Mln • l:he L969 Speaker ·, I t~oJas go:i.ng to ask lnl':~rnber l:o t~op~~at the ques l:.-ion JunE:' 23, 1.989 Vo1 Xl..l but we only have twenty minute s left. Mr. Speaker, it is not as simpl e as the hon. mE!rnber· makE!S out. I am SUI"l': ~ he underst ands and I can appreciate why he is asking the question, that it is not a sirnp1E• matter of instructing th o fish merchants to do certain things.

Fish rnE:~rchants atne businE!S S pE!opl E! and the bottom --line, sometimes, in fact at all times, is importan t to them. But certainly I have been advocating now for some t:i.rne that maybe one of the condil:.io ns of 1!-H:' licencing of a fish plant operator should be that hE• be r~;;~qu:ilnecl t.o provide certain facilities to r:~nab1E:~ l:.hE! Fishr:!t"lllE'n l:o split ancl sa1t and si:OI"e t.h1:!:il" fish. Thal :. is onE:~ J~r:!qU-:iln':'lltent I bel:i:::>IJl" l;..IE! can it'nposc"~ on thE!rrJ.

But Lo tt"y to t.ell a pE!J~son in l:h('' pt"ival:.e s~;;~ctor that hl':~ has to do cE•I"ta:i.n things at a certain time in the year, even if it means jeopardizing his business, as might VE:'ry L\IE"1J be th(;! CdSI'' because caplin right now is the b-:i~J money 1nakHr·? Evei"Y rc:ish p]aJ'It o p '::! r· a l: or in l: he 11 ,., u \J i n c '" l: 1'1 .:t L , ','\ ~­ access to cap1in is endeavouring to freeze caplin. 13 u l:. i. 1: i. s so 11'1e thin q I;..Jr · <'t r c• 1 o o k i n c: at clncl it is not. a ntatl..etn of us:i .nq my power as Minister of F:ishE!r'ies.

I t.h:ink t.hE! hun. rn E• 1 n b e t" IAI t 11 a p p r e 1: \ a 1: 1 :! t;.J 1 :' h d u :'! cl o n c" a ] 1 J;..J e c i'l n cl u l .. h ·i ~; ~~ !':· d I" L o a 1.1 e v i a l:. (• L h l' p In () b 1 : ' I rt • w (' h i'l 'J (• at~r'an~1ecl for trucks to p'i.cl< up t·.:h~:• fj_sh, IA.Je haUcC' dl"l "<H19('•d f··rJr U(! ~)Sf."J.S, :i.\1 f dCl' ., _:ill S [ ;,1 rt:: 'lA! ::i.''' .'.· ago we authorized the Cape North, a large facl:ory --1-I"C'ezer trawle1n ownE•d by Nat.:iona1 ~>ua, -l:o operate in a part of Placentia Bay. So everyth:ing that can bo done 'is being clone. And hopeful1y No. 19 F~96 9

next year when we have more time to think about it tJJe will have a much better system in place. MR. HEWLETT: It is the merchant 1 s party, not the people 1 s party. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR . W. CARTER: Oh, listen to Sir William Coaker . MR . WARREN: Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the member for Torngat Mountains . MR. WARREN : My ques bon is to the Minis tE~r of Soci.al Sei"VicE~s. On Tuesday evening in estimates, l:he minister, in response to a question I posed to him at l:he time, said he was aware of an alcoholic problem in Northern Labrador.

To quote thE~ rrrinister, he said his government was the first to take sl:ep~; to aclcii~E!SS the SitU a l: i 0 n . I IAIOIJ 1 d 1. i i< e l: 0 aS k the minister what steps his department and government have taken to alleviate the serious pi"obllc'J'n oF alcohol ·in coasl:.a1 Lab:"aciol"? MR. EFFORD: Ml". Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The hon .- -the M:lnister oF ~;ocial S(':!I"Vices . MR. EFFOIW : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The hon. Mountains is is a very alcoholism - member quite serious For Torngat corn:• c l:., thei"P problem with L970 June 23, 1989 Vol XLI MR. MURPHY : In all Newfoundland. MR.

EFFORD : Yes, you are probably correct . not only in Labrador, but especially in Labrador. It has been pointed out by the hon. mE!mber, but lAJe IAJerE~ a1so atAJar'E' of it before we became the government of the day . What we are surpriSE!d at is that the fanner gover·nrnont did not do anything to aLLE!Vi.atE! the problem or to correct it . What IJJE! ai~E~ do'i.ng J.s lAJr::• i.'II"E:! checking into thE:' s'i.tuation. Tho Minish'r of Health (MI". Deckel"), the Minister of Finance (Dr.

Kitchen) and al1 rnin:istE~rs of the government are Finding out the causes oF thE! pr'ob1.PJn and ~; h::ops are boing taken to correct it. ThE• Dnpart.rnent. of Soc:ia1. ;:ir::ol"vicr::·s ins true l:E!d their Social Wot"kei"S l:o take steps to work more c]ose]y with the community and with the pE•ople who have thE! pr·oblern. Bu l: it is not somel:h:ing thal: you can flick your fingers and sLop overnight. fhe proble111 has br: :!en g r' ot.~Ji n g o v e I" the J. a'' t n u n1 b r:• I" or :· y P a r s a n d i l:. is q o i n r.3 l-. o !-.• ::1 k c· ·'t tAJh:i1r:~. But tAlE:' dl"l:'! ta k.i.r1g s l.

E'p~; :in the right direction to ease the prob]E!m, especiaLly for thE! pE!Op]E! IJ,JhO hi:tV(! i'lll"('i'ldy bt:!CUITI(':' V'i.Cl:.i.lrJ' .'. C)[c­ a1.coho1.:i.~-:;rn, to tAIOI"k Lujt:h !·hr··1n , ,,,_ncl especially the children of those Farn:ilies. MR. WARREN: Ml". Spedkel~. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. th e member for lornqat r.l\o unl ~ains. MR. WARREN : My supplernent.at"Y l:.o the minisl:r->.r, Mr. Speaker: The rninistPr has been quolt:'d as saying l:hat there are con c C:! I" n s u.J:i t h a c t: j v j_ l:. i e s of C:'ll l No. 19 I~') 7 0

unnamed club in Nain. I would like for the minister to tell the House what is he talking about concerning this particular unnamed club? Have char·gE!S been laid against its owner? If so , will the minister kindly tell us? MR . EFFORD : Mr . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Social Services . MR. EFFOIW : Mr. Speaker, th e unnam ed club in Nain - that is something else. We are not talking about downtown Toronto. But: th o r~:! is a cl.ub in Nain , Mr . Speak er .

LE!'L me say at the very ou tset if I had the $100 ,000 th at was spe nt by th e former minister in travel las t year, I wou ld be able to put another Four or five Social Workers in Na:in. Labrador, to tJJork with the people down the re. SOM E HON. MEMBE RS: He;,un, hear ! Mf~. EFFORD: And l:he $25,000 IJJashi''OOin IJJoulcl be another Social WorkE:~r. Mr. Speaker. SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear. hear! MR. EFFOf~D: But .. Mr. Speaker. Y' ~s . I have been rnade awal"e of some concr:!t~ns. I canna~ lay charges. I clo not even know if there is roorn For charges. rhe concerns have been passed on to the proper oFficials.

An investir3at.ion is being done. If and when those concerns are proven to be true, then it is up to the law enforcers to lay charges. But at this s l:age I have only been rnade aware of the concerns, and t.hal~. is prel:.ty good L9'71 June 23, 1989 Vo1 XLI in the shot"t timE!, a week, that. I was made aware of them, consided.ng the MHA fot" t.he ar·ea down ther e has known it for th e last ten years and did not act upon it. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. WARREN: Mr . Spt:!aker . MR. SPEAKER : The han. th e member For Torngat Mountains . SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: ot~dt::~r. please!

I haVE:' notic,~d in l:he past couple:~ of days that people have been c o 1 n i n g o u l:. I Ali t h e x pl o s i v u v e r· b a l punctuations after people have asked questions or during questions. I think Your Honour is only instructed to recognize peop1e lAJho ar·c;! r'E!CO~lnizecl b.IJ l..hr:~ Chair and asking the:~ quest .ion . Please:! :in r:·uLuinE :! 1 lAJOUlcl a~;k thi'1.'l":. lAJ e s l~ o p l:.l·1 r• :; e • tAl h ct l~. t t: <'I ·1 l . explosive verbal interruptions which, in my view, a\"e doing nothing l:.o enhance the debate. Thank you . The han. the member For Torngat Mountains. MR.

WAI,REN: ··--·· ····· -···--·--·-···-·-········ ~- Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. M~/ f:ina1 supplernenlai"Y to l .. h~;;· ministc~r is: Consid':''I"Lng Lhat: l.il: :! rninis let" said he :is dL\Jdl"E:• of Lhtc' prob1om, and consider·ing l~hat he sai.d thE:~ problems have bE!t':~n Lhei"E:! For year·s and yea1"s. and we can probably go back to 194 ·9 ..... 1 think, Mr. SpE~akt:!r, halFing IJJOI "ke d No . 19 I~ 9 '7 1

up there as a public servant and also for the last ten years as a politician I believe it is more serious than the minister is really saying - I would like to ask the minister : Other than just checking into it, as a new government notJJ planning to do new things, would l:he min is l:er seriously consider setting up a Commission of Enquiry to evaluate the problems that are associated with the North and, if possible, consider similarly what is happening in the Northwest Territories where th ere are som e communities that we call dry communities? MR. SPEAKER: Th e l10il ~ ··-th E~ Minj ster of Social Servic1:' S .

MR. EFFOIW : Thank yo ·~ M1 ~. Spea ke r. That is a VE!ry good question, but to the hon. rn~::'!nber that let me say anything !Ale because there the past. So new s·tE•ps in Ml~. SpE!akel~. will do will be new tJJas nol:hing don~~ in what we are doing is l:he r·i,Jhl:. dil~ecl:.ion, Will I set up a Commission of Enquiry into the situation? This g 0 V E! Y' rliTI(! 11\': !Ali J.l ell'~ ci.cl e ·j l: S O!JJn m a n d a t e . T h i ~; g o v C:~ 1~ l'liTl Nl t lAJi ] J decide the proper thing l:o do. We haVE! alrE!acly st.al~ted to WOI"k !AJil:h the problems on the Labrador Coast.

We will decide what to clo. 'fl1e hon. rn<:•rnbC:'l" had his chance lAihE!I'l he !Alas i.n Cabin<'•t Lo do som~'!\:hing about '.it, and I·H~ did not do i.t. WE> a!~e Jnoldng :i.nto Lh1:' sit!Jat.iun l:o FLnd oul:. E•xacl:ly what the source of the prob1em '.is, tJJhat the cause of the problc::'m is. In fact, we have already recognized thE!!"~'! is a pi~oblc::'m thE•rE!, so nouJ tJJE! arE! looking for the solution.

I can assure Lhe L9'72 June 23, 1989 IJo] XLI people of the Labrador Coast that we wi11 not forget them, that t~o.Je will work towards helping them and try to find what the cau se of ·th e problem is and answer the questions to the problem. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. WINSOR: Mr. SpeakE!r . MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the member fot~ Fogo. MR. WINSOR: Mr. SpeakE:~r, rny que s U .on is to thE'!

Minis tE:~In of MunJ.cipal dlld Provincial AFfairs. r h e l: h 1n u s t o F l:. h 'i s a eli n t n ·i s l: l" a t-"i. o n is the servicing of municipaliLies l:)'II"OUgh I"E:~gj l)nal SCC!I"V i.CI''S. rh:=.! previous adm:ini s trat:ion bc:!gun thi .'> concept in recreation with the concept of regiona] recreational facilitiE!S. Can t.hr:• 11'1'inist .e1~ notAl te1l us if his department still endorses that concept? MR. SPFAKLR : The hen. the Mini ster of Municipal and Provincial AFfd ir s. MR . GULLAGE : M r . S p r' i:-1 k e r , T as~; u 1n r?

L. h r·· t· hI" 1.1 s 1: o f t h e q u c s L :i o n ~i. s !AI h r::· t_ h 1':' 1~ OJ" n n I. we endorse the concept of providing recreational Facilit:i.es o n a r e g i o n a 1 b a s i s . r: F l: h a t· i s the quesl :.ion, th(! c.~nstAJf'r i.~;, yc•s, tJJ e d o . A s l:. h e 1 n C! 111 b e r' I< 1'10 IAI s , I said :i. n t h c:! House t h a L lAIC:' a 1·· c• presenl:.ly c~xcunirl"i.ng l:.h1~ poltcy that has bC'!en J.n p1<;\ci':', look:i.nq i.'tl·.

Lh1:> whole concept : oF FundLnq r· .:;:~ regional recreational facil..-it:i.es, how best to s r;:! l:. up Lhos e I"E:'9 ional facilities, how best. t.o inteJ~r'e1ate tAJil:h Lhr:• corr11nunit:i.':'s involved and sec· Lhat lAIC:! can prov'.idE! funding Fr'om our f:•nd in No . 19 R9'/2

co-operation with the that would be part regional facility and on a per capita basis . c ornrnu nit i e s of that cost-share So we are examining that whole question now and hopefully we will have a solution very soon . MR. WINSOR: Mr. Speaker . MR . SPEAKER : The han. the member for Fogo . MR. WINSOR: ·--·----··--Mr .

Minj.ster, since that program had already been started in recreation, how can hE! tell the people of this House and this Province that this administration is serious about this when they undermine the program by pulling the skates out From under the people of Fogo, the ConnaigrE! and the Wesleyville area - SOME HON. MEMBERS : H e a r ~--- hE;ar~ ----·· --·· · ··-- ~~ . ..:. .. _WINSOR: by cancelling l~he stadiums r-·or· Fogo, for the Connaigre and thP Wesleyv ille ar·e a? Fui~i:.her·mor·e, .is it true that a11 applications fo1~ regional recreational complexes are now under review?

Does this mean that new Feasibility studies wi1l have to be done, despite the fact that senior bureaucrats had already priorized a list of stadiums to be built? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hea1n. h::•ar! MR . FLIGHT : We are reviewing everything. Everything. Everything is under review, and why should it not be? 1.973 June 23, 1989 Vol XLI MR. SPEAKER : The han. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. MR . GULLAGE: -·· "· ~------·- Mr.

Speaker, that :is a very fair question and I th:i.nk it ~lE!ts at the heart of the matter, tAJhich is whether or not the communities involved in planning and making submissions to government are fully aware of the future liabi1ity thE!Y rnay bE• tak:i.ng on.

I have talked to many of these communities that are attempting to co-op~H·ate, Four, fiv::• and six oF thE!m in some cases. in provicl:ing a regional facility in their area. and I have reminded thern thcd: :it is onE! thing to put it thei~e, one thing for government and Lhe cornrnuni.ties l~ogethE!In to pul: oul~ the capital cost, but the big probl1:"tll is iTtainl:.r:~nance oF t·.he facility and ongoing operational costs.

WhE!n rl:!l'll".i .ncled of l~hat, they agree that we do have to re-exatn:ine tht:'! t~hole policy, making sure that when these Facili l:.ies arE:• FlU t. in place, the communities involVE!cl can i:lff o1ncl to m a i. n t. a in and operate t h t:! m . So, yesJ in ~.LJIOt:~ ca:;es, Lhe submissions that are in to government will have to be rE!U-i.E~lJdE'cl, lnr::•f]ecl· ::i.ng l:.hf" l'll''lAI c r' i. L t:' (' ·i. a tAJ h t c h lAI i l. 1 s t? e l:A-1 t:• s '" cornrnunit.".i.Ps be.i .nq abl.r! La susLc;l:in and oper·al~e l~hese facili.l·ies onct?. they are put in place. MR. SPEAI<ER : The hon.

Lhr:' melitbt:'l~ l-ot~ FcHjO . ~ -WINf.30R : A F:inal :;u:JP1~::·111ent.a1ny . The feasibility studies should h a v e , and i n d e 1:' d . d i d e x a l'fl i n e L h a l~ V e r y q L1 E! S l": i 0 n . C a n L h E• ITI.i rd S lr::! I~ not~ tell us tAihat lAii .l1 hi'IFJPE:'n? We know what happened. What wiJ I No. 1.9 1\973

happen to the missing cheques that were issued to three? And how much of the $4 million-plus for capital expenditure is for new construction this year, not for ongoing projects that have been on the go for the past three or four years? MR. SPE~ .. \S .. ER: The hon. the minister . MR. GULLAGE: Well, obviously, any cheques that were issued previously and not sub sequently honoured and sent out , and so on, and used for the or iginal in tent of the pr eviou s government, are no longer valid cheques. needless to say. I do not know why that quesU .on com E!S this way . MR.

SIMMS : What do you mean by 'no longer valid'? MR . GULLACE : Well, obviously, going to have a and used, it is is your po i.nt? MR. FLIGHT: if you are no t ch<: ~que pres ented not valid . What What is your point? Make you1 n point. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER : Ord,?.r, please! I haVI::! jusl: menl:.:ionE!d that: t.he Chair w1.11 only enter'"t:.a:in onE! questionr?.r. If Lhe quesl:.ion is going to bineak clotAJn and ~;urnr:·Gne :i.s going l":o be asking a ques~ion whiJ.e a mE!rnber is in the proCE!SS of answer·ing a question. then Question Period is going to become a total far·ce. fhr?.

Chair is not goi.ng to porrnit. l.hat kind of L 9 7 I~ June 23, 1989 Vo.l XLI inte1nruption . SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER : The han . th e Minister . MR . GULLAGE: Just to repeat my se lf, Mr. Speaker. Obviously. i.f cheque s are withdrawn and no t bei ng used, to me, very simply, those chC: 'qU E•s are no longer valid. I 1nean, l:hat is just common sense. As far as financi.ng is conCE!rnr..:•cl in the government.' s participat-:i.on in t h 0.~ s E:! region a 1 fa c :i.l :i t. :i.E's • lAJC! wtl1 be procec::~ding, al: thE!

U.rne of my announCE!rTIE!nt, IAJhE:!n I rnr:tke it:, as l:o l.IJhat: the crttr:H'ia ,,,i.ll bE! l:o re····exarnine t:he appli.cat.i.ons lha. l I.IJe havr:~ in placr~ and if, incleod, thE! criteria lnequoii'"'E! a chan~~'"! in l: he a p plication • toe tAd 1.1 go back to thC:~ communities and I"E!CI"E:~at:i.on committees involved, and ask t:hr~m to reconsider, using the now c rite r· i. a . and t.IJ<':' IAJi. 11 pI" o c e e d F I" o rn that point with a cost-sharing arrangelfiE:'nl: bE•l:tAJeen l:hr::• rC!CJnr::!al-."ion commit:tees and government:. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Ht::~ar. hear! MS VERCE: --- - Mr .

SpeakE!r. MR. SPEAI<ER : rhe hon . East. l:he rnt::'lllbr:!r' 1-nl" Hu111br.:•r MS VERGE: Mr. Sp1:'!akPr, .I haVE:' a CJUl!~;l·ion f'ut" thr::• M"inist:er· uf" Munic:i.pa] and Provincial Affairs. Actually, it i s t he s a rn <':' q u e s l: :i. o n I a s k r:• cl hi. rn th1nee times yr?.sterday. in Question Per:iocl, on thE! Late ShOIAJ, and last. evening at: the Es l::l.rnal:E!S Cornrnittr~''? rnE•Ed::ing. No. 19 1\ ') 7 /~

Mr. Speaker, I would like to knoLI.J whether the minister and his department have approved a grant to an amateur theatre group in Gander, a grant made independent of the Arts Council and in violation of the principle of arm's length funding for artists? Mr. Speaker, this is a very, very important question to working artists throughout: our ProvincE! who believed the neLI.J Premier when he promised there would be no patronage. MR. SIMMS : Another conflict. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order. please!

I 1necognize that as an irnpor·tant question, and if it is an important question I would appreciat e abs olute quietness on both sid es . When a qu1:• stion is pu nc tua ted by snE!er i.ng J"ernark s, the Chair does not regard it to be receiving th e seriousn ess it sh ould and that is why I am ri sing to res tor E! Ol" ciE!l". I agi"E !E! il: is an irnpor·l :a nt qlH: ~s ti o n, and I ask bot h sid es to pl ease he ar th e qu esti on appropriately. The han. Ea st . MS VERGE : th e::' rn1:'rn br:!r Fol " Hu 1nb er Ml". SpeakE!r, I had fi ni.shed asldn~.J the quesU .on.

Yester·day the minister said, aFl:er the three times I asked it, that he had no knowledge oF such a grant, and I would like to know L975 Jun e 23, 1.98 9 Vol XL I now 1.uhether whether he the truth. he has would found out, and tell the House MR. SPEAKER: The han . the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. MR. GULL..A GE: Mr . Speak 1?.r, I have sin ce che cke d out lhe rnatt~E!r, and the lTlE!Hiber· is quite correct. There is an application in from thE! Av: lon Players in Gander for a travel grant and that is being con side red by Lh1:~ cll'::~partrnE!nt. No 9l"a nt ha s been approved thus far. MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the rnernber for Green Bay. MR. HEWLETT: Thank you, Mr . Spu a \u,~ r . Is there muc h li lliE: J. 1:;• fl. :i.n Qu estion Peri od? MR. SPEAKER : Not much, but the1"e is so1ne . MR . HEWLErT: The! rn:i.n :islE!l" J"esponsible foJ·' paJ"ks, Mr. Sp1"!ak'''l~, has a f1:!lt"X in his office wh ic h bas ical ly says not only did he steal my park, Mr . Speaker, but the equipment that IAJa s in i. l:. as a rnu n i c i. pal paIn k h <'\ s bE :!(~n rE!fTIOVE'd in an tic:ipatoion of' <:'t great capital program this Summer.

Will the minister g:i.ue back the play\ji"Ound equiprnE~nl:, l:he gaJ"bagE! cans and the picnic l:.abJ .c·~; to C I"(! s c e n t '-a k e P I" o u i n ci a l

I) d r' k ? MR. SPEAKER : rhe han. lh~ Mi~ister or-- Env:ir·o nlrl l':!n l: and Utnds. MR. KELLAND : Thank you, Mr . I thank the question . I No. 19 3pE"aker . hon. mernber For Lh e have no kn owled ge, I~ ') '7 5

Mr. Speaker, to be quite honest, about any particular equipment being removed. If it was improperly removed, in light of the fact that we are not providing funding this year I will certainly have a look it and if it is required to go back, I t.~Jill respond to that appropriately . MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the member For Green Bay . MR. HEWLETT : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. Things are done, Mr. SpE!aker. according to need. I got one tAJater project \:his yE•ar in a town that certainly had a water sys\:t::~ln on the go, bul:.

I have anothE!r town. as was on thE! nE•ws last night. which has no ground water and no W(:!l1s. tJJatE!r is delivered door to door by truck. Where does that fit with the nE!ed basis for allocation of funding, Mr. Speaker? MR. SPEAKER : lhe hon. l:he Minis te1n of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. MR. GULLAGE: Mr. Sp!O!aker, I IJJould rern-.ind the han. rnernbE!ln, and h(:~ shou1d know since he was connected with government on an EA basis for C\ long, lon~~ timE!, oF the need throughout the Province .

I can br·ing hi.1n in a list tJJhich tAJOuld stagger the mind, of similar situal:ions to that. which he just described . The situation in his district is not unique, Mr. Speaker. MR. HEWLEfT : One final question, Mr. Speaker . . ~ .~--· .S P E fl.!< E~ : L976 JunP 23, 1989 VoJ. XLI The hon. the rnember :for Green Bay . MR.

HEWLETT: In the absence of the Prernier. to the hon. the GovernrrH=!nt Houst::~ Leader: Given the fact that I t;.Jas shut out of the roads program. nearly shut oul: of \:he tJJal.·.,,~,~ prog1nam, tot.ally shut out of l:.h1::! park program, since having a premier as your rnembE!ln is suppoSE!d to be an honour. Mr. Spt::'aker Baie Verte - White Bay knotJJS it, Bay of Is land knows ·a ·- tJJhy is Green Bay being peJnSE!CUl:E!d becaus1:! of it? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hea1n! MR. SPEAKER : ThE! hon . the govE=!rnlnen l.: H 01.1 '· e Lt::~adt,r. MR. BAKER : Ml".

SpeakE!r, I know thE:• nE!l).J ITJE·ntb~::•J·· for G1neen Bay wanl:.s to put on a shotJJ for his constil:uenl:s, and that is Fine. We understand that. We are also certa-.in that the ITIE!tllber knot,us l:hal: l:h1:'1"e ;:~1":::! neE!ds a]] around the PJ"ov:incr::>. WE:! c3. In e a l S (I C lo' r '\: a i n 1: h i"l I \: h 1•:' II!

I ' 1111: '1 I} In knows these needs were address0J on a purely non-political basis for thE! fiTst tirnE! in a Jot. of yeaJ~s. lh1:' rnE:•111beJ" k nut.lh l~h.- ·1 L there! a1ne c!:i.s trict. he ~_,_1('1..1-.\ r:\ c -l i'l'~ ·; as L -.i be r a 1 d i. s t r-:i . c t s tJJ hi 1: h received not a cent of funding and which have great needs. rhe rneJTJbE!r tJJ:i.11 aJ.so knotAJ Lh< 'll l.hr:-1·'cc' dine disl:l"icl:s l~hal: h<' lAiOUJ .d cl..t ·;s as Tory districts which received la1nge amounl':s fund-Lng. HH :! rnt::!l'l'lber for Fogo knows all -about thaL. SOME HON. MEMBERS : And Grand Falls . MR.

BAKER: And for Grand Falls . No. 19 R9'/6

The member will know that for the first time the disbursement of these funds was done on a non-political basis . I would assure the member that we understand his needs and the needs of his district, and that they will be looked out to on the ba sis of fairne ss and balan ce in the whole Province. I congratulate the member for pushing for projects in his district. It is the right thing to do, and I can assure him that government will continue to listen to him. MR. SPEAKER: Question Period has expired. Presenting Reports by Standing and Spec ial Committees MR . NOEL : Mr . Sp eaker. MR .

SPEAKER: The han. the member for Pleasantvt11e. MR. NOEL: rJlr. Spr:'!akc:H'' as Chail"ltlan of l~hE! Government SE!rViCE!S CormnittE:'e I t.~.Jish to report to the han. House that thE! Comrn:it.tee has constdered l:.he Esl~:irnates ol: l:.he Deparl:.lrll:!nts of Employment and Labour Relations; Works, Services and Transportation; Finance; Municipal and Provincial Affaii"S; and have passed all proposed expenditures t.1.Ji l~hout amendllll:'·n t. MR. SPEAI<ER: The han. tho Minister of WOI"ks, Services and Transportation . MR . GILBER T: Mr.

SpE!akE!r. at. this time I would like to table the report for the Department of Transportation for the year 1987-1988. L977 June 23, 1.989 Vol XLI MR. SPEAKER : Before getting into OrdE!rs of thE! Day I would like to welcome to the galleries on behalf of all members, Susan Bates, Presid ent: of the Sa skatchewan Teachers' Federation. SOM E HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hea;! MR . SPEAKER : The han . l~he Government House Leader. MR . BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Sp eaker. I lAJOUld 1i .kE! to ask lE!aVE· 0 r the House to reVE!rt to St.ateiTH':!nt.s by Ministers.

The Minister of Municipal and Provincial ArFairs has a brief statement he would like to make. A copy was given to the OpposiU .on ITIE!ITibE!I'' conCE!I"riE!cl sometime ago. A slight change had to be made bE•foi~E! it came to the House, and I arn asldng for l:c'i'lVe f o I" thE! m i rd s t e 1A to HI a k e t hat short statement. MR. SIMMS : ~ ·SpeakE!r . MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon . the Lc:!ader. MR. SIMMS : Opposition House Mr.

SpPaker. in thE· noi"IIJC:d c.-1ncl continuing co-operative approach the Opposttion ha~; ~;hr.JtAJn t.o gover·nrn('nt For Lh'i.s Session on -ly, and I ernphas'i.zr:• 'f'OI" thois ~3E·~;~;:ion only' , tAle arP (jUi 1:1::' prepa1~ec.1 to revert to Statements by Minis t:er's. I un::!::>J"S tdnd !.11::• rnernber fo1~ St.. John's Eas l:. E:x ten1 l.I.Ji .11 be responding to L.lle staternr::~nt, so go ahE~ad. Statements by Ministers No. 19 i\ ') '7 '7

MR. SPEAKER: The Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, by agre ement. MR. GULLAGE : Thank you, Mr . Speaker . My apoJ.ogiE!S for being late with the statemE!nt, bu t I carne dir E!C l:ly to the Hous e from a meeting and my secretary had these delivered . I just missed Statements by Ministers, as lJJe had started proce edings. Mr . Speaker, hon. rn~~lflbers of the House of Ass embly , my Depar tment has complet ed its revi ew of the request for addi tional funding to address the Financ ial needs of the Newfoundland and Labrador High School Athletic Federation.

I am pJ.easE!d this morning to advise this hon. House that my DepartmE:~nt wi11 bE! n1aking available to the Federation a one time $2 5, 000 grant to help defray its existing deficit. In addition to this, my Department wiJ.l increase the annual grant by some $15,000, a tota1 of $4-0,000, in an al:l:empl: to ensure l:.hat Lhe pr·og1narmning pr·esently bEd.ng carried out by the Federation can continue at its present level. We will continue to monitor the activities of the Federation to ensure that no Further program reductions are necessary.

I lAJan l:. to 1euel of athlE>l:es throughout 1nainl:ain,:-d. ensure that a reasonable programming For Lhe in our high schools the Province is SOME HON. MEMBERS: 'fTe-ar-,- -hear ! .. _ .. ___ _ MR. SPUlKER: The hon. the member For St. John's L9'78 JunEo 23, 1989 Vo1 XLI East Extern. MR . PARSONS : Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I want to thank thE! mini ster for the copy. His statement was a little• bit. belated, but l understand why. h:igh I certainly agree with the school programs th at are ongoing in the Province, but WE! do need a lot more money in there.

I w as Minisl:er of the Departrn,:'nt fo1 " a short period and we did - SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh! · M ~...: ____ .P.A~.9_Q_N_~ , : Just one second. Let l'nE! finish. A f t e r t h e t h i. r d cl a y I v.m s i n L h e department we gave the thr0e associations, thE! H:iqh Schuol Athletic Federation, the NLPI~A iHld the Newfoundland and Labrador Sports Federation, ~~25,000 "='<Hh l:o try to supp1E!fTIE!nt monoi es that. tAlE'' I"(:• already there.

But the High Schoo 1 A t h 1 e t_ j c Fe cl e J" d l:. ·j il n cl i cl haul:' pi"obl,,!Jns as l:_o Fi .n<C~nc-Lnq, thE!I"E' v.Ja~; no duubL aboul:_ 1.1 .. 1 think the $25,000 we gave them was just an ·.intE!r:irn thing, and tAle lAJE:!J"e g o i n g l:_ o h ~::t \) "' a (J o o d lo o k a t i. l: a n d s e c• IAI hat t-: he i I" n (' c· cl s '"' r:· r· ,.,, r ,-, ,,. the future. T. IJJO u 1 d 1 ike to s ,::~ y l: o l. he minister thal: . the h:iqh school A l: h 1 '''!tic Associ a l: i u 11 n c• u d s 11111 c h more funding. Thl:!lnE:' j_s no doubt al:_ a11 about it.

But in saying that, in gtu:ing that. funcl:ing, l l:hink [-_hal: unl-_il ·3UL;h i·i.llll~ .~s governrnE•nt and the <.·\ssocic::tt-.1ons agree on some concl:'p ·l: oF consultation, whi1e it is being c o n s i d E' I" e d l_ h e y s h o u 1 d s l:_ .i c k wi.thin th(:!il" budgets. T hei"E' v.Jas a prob1ern pertaining t.o No. 19 R978

overspending, so I t.hi'nk ·they should stick within their budgets. I looked at it in the short period I was there, and I would suggest to the minister t:hat he adhere to this line of thinking. We need more programs. The programs being impJ.ernE!nted arE! not kept up to date. I think there is plenty of room out thE!re for new programs, but things have to be done in an orderly fashion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Orders of the Day M R_.: ... B A K E_R_: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The hon . thE! Go veIn lliTIE! n t House Leader. MR. BAKFR : M1~.

Speaker, beforE:~ we get t:o the order I arn going to ca11, I like to do a couple of readings, motion S and motion lAJO U 1 d First 6. M o t i o n , l: h e h o n . t. h e M ·.i n i s L e 1~ o f Justice l::.o inl:roduce a bi11, 11

An Act fo Abolish Certain Ancient: Right Of Action In The Area Of Family Law And To Amt~nd ThE~ Children 1 s LatAJ Act, The Family L.atAJ Act, 'fhe Reciprocal Enforcelrli:"''·li ·:. Of Support Orders Act And The Support Orders Enforcement Act In Order To Correct Anomalies And Errors In Those Acl:s, 11 carried. (Bill No . 9) On motion, 13oi11 No. (9) rei'ld d first time, ordE!rE!d rE!ad c\ second time on tomoi"I"OW. Motion, l:he hon. l:he Minisl:lo!l" oF Finance h> inl:t"oducE~ a bill, 11

An Act Respecting An IncrE'ase Of Cel"tain Pensions, 11 cal"d.ed. (Bill No. B) 1_979 June 23, 1989 Vol XU On rnot.ion, Bill No. (8) read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. MR. BAKER: Order 3, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : Order 3 . The han . the Opposition HOUSE! Leader. MR. SIMMS: Mr. SpE!aker, I would J.tkE• to can'y on the concurr'E!nce debate on l:.he Resource EstimatE!S Cornrnitt:E•ic'. I thtnk that is tAJhat. WE' ar~'! dE!ali.ng with, OrdE!r 3. I tAJ~i .11 just spoak for a few rninui:.l:'s on a couplE• of matters of interest.

DLII"in~i the f:sU.rnates Colnttlitl:.ee 1 had an oppol"tunity l:.o ask my good friE!nd, thE! Minis l:E!I" of F'oi"E!Stlny, a nUJnbE!r of ques tiuns. I ll"ied l:o get him to come clean with the House with respect. Lo his decision on this year 1 s sp1"ay pro~warn. My first question had to do with what the first bit of advice he received from his oH'icials lAJ,'\S, not what he pul together after \:a1kin!] tO U11•Jfl. ilc> , of COLli"':;>, refused to address that quesl:.ion and skated all around it.

I arn hoping he wi11 take the o p p o I" l:. u n i t y t·. o ~~ p e '' k i n l: h i. s deabtE! for ten rninutE!S to acldr'ess sorne of the points I arn raising. Secondly, a couplt:~ oF d01ys ;:'I<JO I asked hj.rn a qu~:•sl:.ion lAtil:h I"E:·~>pf:!Ct. l:o l:hl?. ~~XLI:!ns-Lon ol~ a si1vicull:.liJ":::> agl"t"!ernent tAJj_t.h t:i·IE' papel" co1npan:it~S, and al:. l:hal: l:.Lne I E!Xf.li"E'SSE•d SOI'riH COnLf::'l"n ab:Jlt'l: wheUH:'I" Oi" nut t:hal:. exl:~::!nsion t•:ds going to be Pl"oviclecl.

BecausE'! j_f it tAJas not, there was conc~:.~rn Lhat the companies might not proceed with their. own silviculture program; I undersl::.ood l.:he Prov:lncE• No . 19 F~<J79

would proceed with theirs. So I would like him to at least inform the House publicly, and thereby the public publicly, whether or not he was able to reach an agreement with the companies. I have a suspi cion that he was ab1E! to, and that he cannot wait to get up and tell everybody.

The other question I raised in the Estimate s Committee had to do with some concE!rns passed on to me:! by forest rang ers in the field, con cerns they had about doing their job and having to wo1nk singlehandedly as opposed to being able to havE! a partnE! r war k wi t.h them in going out to enForce the forest fire regulations and so on. The minister IAJill recall, I hope, the issue I am referring to without my having to e:!laborate on it now.

I do not IJJ:i.sh to elaborate on it a lot today, but I would like h:i .rn to tE!ll the House, or te11 me'! at least, IJJhel:hl'!r he has had a chance to pur'SUE! those questions and find out iF indeed there is a rnorale problern arnong the forest rangers or his department, and if there are other problems such as those I described. Fin a 11 y , the o the r -l '3 suo T I.>.JO ul. d like him to address when he stands in the debate is the question with respect t.o any proposed changes to the production plans of the Wooddale tree nursery in Grand Falls or Bishop's Falls, tJJhe1ne0ver· it :i.s.

Act.ualJ.y, I thi.nk i.t i.s within the boundaries or the provincial electoral district of Windsor - Buchans. I think that is accurate. So any of the proposed changes to those production pJ.ans at: that Faci.li.ty l:.hat miqht cause Pf.. 'l"rnanenl: layoFfs at that. facility. I ask those 1.980 June 23, 198 9 Vol XLI questions of thE! minister in a11 sincerity, because they were concerns expressed to me by peopl e who are involved in all aspects of them. Now that is enough for the Minisl:e1n of Forest1 ny. He should be abJ.E! to tak E! tE•n minute s, tAJh E'n he stands, to answer th os e questions .

I want to address a 'littl e furth er a concern raised in the Hou se yesterday by ·- I am so1nry. The member for the Port aux Ba squ es Marin ers, is he tryin <j to gEd: my at tE!nti.on? MR. RAMSAY : No. Mr~. SIMMS: No ? Ok ay. I tAJanl: to raisu a 111at.l:e1" tAJh'ich IAJas rai.SE!d yeste1nclay in l.:he HouSE! by almost his seal: .1nate, l~he rnembe:?.r for Placentia (Min. Hogan), the boi g member For Placentia. He raised an i.ssue yesterday in the House h a Vi ll 9 l~ 0 d 0 I>.Joi. I h l~ hE:' C 1. 0 S e:! cl OIAJ 11 , 01n shut:dOI>.Jn, of' t:hr:• f:i';h pl~\nl: jn F d :i 1" I· I a v E! n .

I 1 .i s L 1,• 11 (! cl iAJ .l. L h s u 1 n C! interest to what he had to say yesterday, and I subsequently •JOL u p an cl s p o k r'• b 1" oi r• F 1 y a n c/ ·; ''' ·i d r·1n o rn ''Jhat . T kni"I>.J of ·i_t-. il: . sotlnc\c>d l~o me J.jke it was a bureaucratic bu1nble- thal: ·L~ t>.Jhal:. i.l~ souncico'd JikE! --· or eJse, someonE• was la~;in<:J the hc,avy hand on SOIIIPone al:. l:.hc· Ft:.'l:ir l·lavE•n opc:•l"cll .. 'ion fol " son1e ot:hc::'r reason.

Subsequent: to l:hAl: I had a chance t: () 1 0 u k c'\ l: l. 1'1 "' ] -i ::; l:. 0 r 1" c::• d c:; () n ;:; given by the Federal Fisheries pE!Ople for l:he cloSE!ciO~>.m of l:hal: plant in Fair Haven. And iF you look at.· l:.hE• J.'.i.st, 1 n1ean, it. is reaJ.ly VE!ry hard l:o bnli<:>V<" that thE!Y wou1d not hc\VE' given the No . 19 1'~~ )8 ()

operator a bit of advance notice or advance time, or even threaten him if they had to, to do these things and then, 'we will see what happens.' But as I unders ·tand it from talking to the member for Placentia and listening to him yesterday in the House, the operators were not given any formal notice as Far as he understands, or as far as he knew, they just actually walked in there and closed down the plant. But look at some of thE! items on the list.

For example, 'Drains: The main floor drain is not rodent proof.' That. is one of thE! main reasons for closing down a fish plant and putting people out of wo1nk. 'U.ghting . Hand washing facilities: Not provided with soap or single --use towels.' Now there is a good reason to close down a fish plant and put pE!Ople out of work, no question about it. 'The splitting table has a plywood top and that is not the approved rnatE!rial.' Not aJ.lowed to have a fish plant operating with a splitting table with a plycvood top. AN HON . MEMBER : What about the rest of it? MR. SIMMS: Th e 1nest of :i.l:? MR.

HEWLETT: What about the brass doorknobs? Mf~. SIMMS: Well, let U S SE!B , 1 To :Llet fa cil itie s: Door s are not self- closing' - I mea n, it i s aJ.1 nos t a joke. Abso lu tr: d.y a joke. What else tJJas thE!lne ? - 1 and employe es must turn th e doorknob s in order to open th.::~m.' NotJJ, is that not too bad ? T hat is rea lly rough! Thal: . is hard tirnes, is it not? I_ 9 8 1 June 23, 198 9 Vol XLI MR. HEWLETT: Liberal times are hard times. MR . SIMMS: Liberal times are hard times. Well, this is a non -partisan issue so we will stay away from that one. Helnt~ ts anothE:~In onE! : I Wal1s: ThE! lower

section of the processing area walls are not light coloured.' My God! They could have gone in and put a bit of paint on them th.::~ night befo1ne, if they WE!rE! to1d, and rnakr::• thr::·rn dcH'k coloulned befolnE:~ Lhl;:! insp.::~c l:.Oin Cdllll;:! tn and closed them down. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) it by day . MR. SIMMS: My God ! A n y way , M 1n .

S p E! a k e r , my o n J y p o :i 1·1 l. in r a is ·:i. n g i l: ·.is l: h a l: I lAid n : 1:. o offer some support to my friend f o r P 1 a c e n t ·.i a i n h i s e !' F o In l: ~~ ,Hl cl hts atl.E!lTlpls to ttny to btnJ.ng SOllll:! common sense to this issue, because tt sounds, to me, to be ral:her cr·a.zy. Unl.::•ss t.h!O! Fed::!t"a.l f i. S h E' ln i E!

S p E' 0 p J.1::! h ('\ V : ' S 0 rt I 1::' 0 l. h I" I" 1noason tAle at~: ::! nol:. c.tiAidi" t:• oF, unl ~:··;·.:; there is a personaltty conflict here between some Federal ftshetnJ.C::!S peopl.r• ancl l:.hr:• ope!"dl·o!n':; -Ln Fairha•J•:·n i-.1) tny t'tay ,-ll: thinking Ud.s list or l~edsons ois absol.utely ludicrous. I do not know if the press gdllery has r·ece·ived a copy or~ l:lli.S. H<'lS Li :e rrtE!rnbet·' ~Ji.VE·n d copy of l:.hoi~; to l . . he pt""='SS gallul'·y? MR. HOGAN : So, he shouJcl . MR .

SIMMS: I just tJJant to add my voice, fotn wh at i.t is wor th, to the E!ff"olnLs of the member For Plac ent ia in att empt ing to get th is de cisio n No . 19 R981

changed as quickly as possible. I am sure he has talked to and consul ted with his co1.league, the Minister of Fisheries in the Province, who has considerable influence, I might add. He has considerab1e influence, and I have a Funny feeling that if he were to personally get involved in this matter, if he has not already, and if he were to take up the telephone and phon~~ his buddy, Tom Siddon, or whoever he has to phone he might just have to phone somebody herE! in the local office and tell him to smarten up and For God's sake get that plant back into operation ··- I have a feeling he cou1.d do :it.

So, I urgE! thE! member for Placentia to keep the pressur e on his colleague, the provincial Ministr:!r oF Fisheries, and I have a fE!el:i.ng hE! rnight be able to get this problem resolved . AN HON. MEMBER: You what? Urge? MR. SIMMS: I urge::~ i·.:he member for PlaCE•nti.a . AN HON. MEMBER: I hate that word . MR. SIMMS: What shall I say? AN HO~ MEMBER: PrE!ssure. MR . SIMMS: PrE!ssurE !, yes. Li ste n, this is a non -partisan issue.

IF I were going to be partisan, I would say l~hal:. thE! mernbE!In For Placentia should be OVE!r in thE! rnini.ster' s oH--ice, monling, noon, and n:i,Jht, and shouJ.d not rnove fro1n thE! office. MR. HEWL ETT: Beat ing a path to his door . L982 JunE• 23, 1989 Vo1 XLI MR. SIMMS : Beating a path to his door. He would not leave his office. Occupy the office of the Minister of Fisheries until - MR. W. CARTER: He was over there eight o'clock this morning. MR . SIMMS: That is much l:oo late. rhe day was half gone at eight o'c1ock this morning.

I would say the Minister of FishE!d.es lAJas plnobabJ.y out at Flatrock this morning at twenty minutes to six watching the FishE!rrnen bringing in Fish and evelnything. MR. W. CARTER : No, Rivedll?ctd. MR . SIMMS: How many pounds did thuy br':i.nq j n this mo1nning? MR. W. CARTER : Four thousand seventy-five MR . SIMMS : One hundred and souenty-fiue thousand, lnE·a1ly Up .in FJi'\l.I"OCk l:hey only gol:. 80,000. 1 lAkt~; up there E!ar1y this morning lAJatch:i.ng the boys. AnytJJay, Mr. Sp~~aker, I wan t l:. o ad cl rn 21 c o Ill ttl ~:• n t s ·in I" u "' p e c t·. l:o that issu e . The 0 thE!

In rnat LC:o!ln I lAIOU] .d J:i.k~::· back lo t.o L 11''' raise 90es environmental i. s s l.l r::• I r'ai<;ecl yester'day cuncc•lnni.ng Lh'~ Uc !i''Y SE'I"ious soot proble1n l.:hal·.: c;\l"osu in the Central NewFoundland area ~ couple of days ago. NotAl that l.·.tAIO days h au e pa s ~:: t" d , hop(' f 11 Ll y ! :-1 "' Minister of the Environment wiJ I have had an opportuntt :y t:o talk l:o the company to see if they were prepared to put in place a mE! c h a n i s rn w h i c h w o u 1 d b e a 111 u I" r::• personal approach For help ing No. 19 R9il 2

people who had serious problems as a result of the emissions, an E!asy mechanism, to put forth their claims, and somebody to consult with them and give thE!m some:~ consideration and consoling. Because some of them have experienced sorn~':! prnetty serious damage. I hope thE! ministE•r wi11 take the opportunity, when he gets up in debate, to maybe address that .

I also addressed a health and safety question yesterday and asked the Ministern of Health and the Minister of Employment and Labour Relations, who would have a role to play in safE!ty factors, to do a follow-up to ensure that there was no health problem associated wil:h l:.his particular incidE!nt. I do not know how much work l:hat would take, but I hopE! the Minister of Health might comment on it, andsecondly, that the Minister of Labour would ensure that her officials do a follow-up to try to find out and underst.and how this could have occurred, bE! CausE· I understand the equipment was fairly new equipment.

It was only two or three y~ars old. Uery unusual! So, follow up and find out how this could have ever occurred but, rrrorC:' :importantly, E•nsurne that Lh(• pr'op::!r iTIC:!Charrisrns arne put in place. MR. FLIGHT : Carried :- MR. SIMMS : rhe member for Windsor. when he tJJas over on this side and I t..~.ras on the government side, used to constantly 1 n LE!Inr upt me. Mrn . Speaker. I have Hansards here now and I can read thmn out to you.

I remember one time tJJe brought in a Throne Speech ·-·· I mean, a Throne SpE'IHh is an outline of l:he government's plans for the year L9B3 June 23, 1989 Uol XU ahead in an overall, general way - and he went out to Grand Falls and did an interview with The Grand Falls Aduert~ser, and he was r~cilly upset. He said to his constitur:~nts pubLicly, 1 I am upset because there were a lot of things not in the Thrnone Speech. 1 They said, 1WE•J.] ., like what, Mr~. Flight?' He said, 'Well, first of all, thE!re was nothing in th~:!

Throne Speech about the incinerator for Grand Fa11s . 1 You could hardly believe your eyes when you rE!ad it. He sa:i .d therE-~ lJJas nothing about the :i.ncinera Lor in the Throne Speech. I could not believe it! MR. HEWLETT : Kind of burns you up, does it not? MR. SIMMS: I noticed, of coursE!, tJJh1::!n he becarnE! a rnernber of thr:! governnrw :•n't: and they had an opportunity to bring in their first Throne Speech, there were all kinds of mE•ntions about the inciner'ator~ in Grnand Falls. MR. DOYLE : There were no watPr treatmPnts mentioned in the fhrone Speech. MR. SIMMS : No, no water threatment plant .

In any eVE!nt, I would as k thE• han. member not to interrupt me now because I arn talldng about a vr:•r"y seriou s problem, a ver y serious matter, one, in fact, that ho should bE:' concern1:>.d tAril:h, beca:us::• as I unclE! r s t. and i-t: ' t h (' rn E! lAJ (! 1'' (• some people frnorn Wi.nd~~or, by t.he way, who IAJP I"C> affecLecl by t.! ·,·.i~; '''m ission problem. Are rny ten minutes up Yf:!t, l'-1r . SpeakE:'r? MR. SPEAKER : No. 19 1\9 B 3

Just about. MR . SIMMS: Okay. SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave! MR . SIMMS : I did not stand time to carry minutes, but if me to I certainly AN HON. MEMBER: No . MR . SIMMS: No? Okay . at this point in on for thirty hon. members want will. Anyway, I tAJould lib:~ the Minister of EnvjTonment and Lands to take the opportunity to address this matter when he stands. And I would not mind hearing from the Minister of HE!alth.

I ask him to use his normal compassionate approach - I say that with tongue-in-cheek - to l~his probh~m. and maybe expJ.ain to us if it is possible for the DepartrnE!Ilt of Health peopJ.e in his department to do a follow-up to Find out and E!nsurE! that there U.JE:•rE! no hE!aJ.th related problems related to this incident. And perhaps the Mtnisl:.(:•J~ oF Ernploytllent and l_abour [\elations could tell us t.~JhE•thet~ or not she will have her officials E!nSUinE! that t.hc:• p1nope1n ITIE!Chanisrns are in placE! to prev1~nt l~his from rE! -·Occurring. May I just, in conclusion, Mr.

Speaker, ur·qe the JliE!mber fotn St. John's South, the recently cunl'-it"tned ·-l:•li'!Cl:r~d trWtllbl~l~ For St. John's South, I should add -· I congratulate the member on his election. Landslide Murphy they now call him. That is E!ncourag·ing, bE!CaUSE! 'fo1n the last Four years I tAJas called Landslide L984 June 23, 1989 Vol XLI Simms, but that has been overcome. I wou1d urge th E:~ memb er for St. John's South to perhap s have a few words, too, becausE! I k now he i s t n v o 1 v e d • I t h t n k at a national level, with hea1th and safety, as is the mE•mi :H:~ r for Placentia, I believe.

That was his professi onaJ. job , as I und erstand it. So there are a lot of peoplE! over there who could taJ.k about it. It is a very important ma t.tE! r and I would be int erested in hearing their remalnks. Thank you, Mi n. Sp eaker. MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the Mini ster of Environment and Land s . SMR . KELLAND : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of alJ, I wwld JikE! l.o i'ltdke a quick comment on the remarks made by the han. Opposition Hou~;e Leader tAJ'.i.l:h referE!nce to l:hE• Fair HaVE!n situation.

I concu1~ u.J:l.th what h~;! said thE!re. and rt::'al1y a non-·parttsan effot~t shou1cl be l'llddl::• FI"Otn l:he House, cd: the pol'i.t·i~ ~"-1 1 \'! v E! 1 an cl d J l o L hE! I'' J. t'' v u .1 ;; • l. u alleviate that. A n o 1·: h o 1~ t·: h i n g I w o u '1 d 1 i k 1:! t o 1 1 k1 k (• reference to, Mr. Spe0ker - l neglected to do so yes ten·Jay in the f'ew rninutr:•s I had p1~jo1n to thH Late Show - is the conduct.'in•J of t he par t of t he E s L. ·t rna t r::· s C o n 1 rn i l: l:. C! r:! I lAJ a s t n v o 1 v (! d tAl i. t h . I rnust say thE! hon.

Cha'.i.J"I'Ildn, in JJI.Y r11ind, USI;!d a ver·y cornrnon ·-S(Hl~;~:· approach to his responsibilities <:tncl allotAJed enough r--1o:·xi.bil -il.:y ;: r,;' a sometimes long-winded minister to get his po:inl: acr'oss without upsetting the Chair to any gt"eat. extent. I thought he conducted t·:he businE!SS of thE• CoJTtrn:iLl.E•c! in a very Fa:ir and common -sense manner . No . 1.9 R98fl.

By the same token, the hon. Vice-Chairman of that particular Committee, tJJith his vast kno\J..ll~::,dge of the affairs of this Province, did an excellent job in that position, as did members from both sides. And I have to say, in all honesty, Mr. Speaker, that that is a departure from IAJhat. I had witnessed in E!arlier years . When I was an Opposition member, for those four years involved with the Estimates Committees, it frequen tly broke down. I am not casting blame on either side of thE!

House of the day, but rather, it often deteriorated becau se of conflicts between both sides and both parties represented at the Estimates Committee. But I must complim ent all memb ers for the excelJ.ent cha iring, viU '····Chairing, the level of qu esti ons Fr·om both

partie s, and the suppor t information from the very professional people I have in rny department. I was very pl eased with that . BE! causE' of U1 C:! approach taken by the Chair and all. the othE!r pE•opl e invo1VE!d, w~ ~ were ablE! to conduct: the business of th at particul ar co mrn :i.t lE!e in the Lhl~ee hour s <:incl had ou1n E!St :im al.E!S pass ed .

I did not ge t to re spond, I gu es s. be caus e of the Late Show ye ste rda y, to all the iss ues 1nai s 1~d by a couple of l:ht::~ members 0 n th E:' 0 thE:~ In side ' but I l./J O u 1 d like, if I can. l:o try l:o get som e of th os r:! fi n:i.s hed, at 1eflst , and perhap s have an other opportunity to finish of f a lit tle later on. I was malc inq sorne refen :!nCE', at l: h e l: i 111 e • t o s u rn ~~ ·i ·3 s u e s r· cd. s c:> d b y the han. the rnernber for Green Bay .

I tri N l to give h i.111 an example of how I also appreciate the frustrat ion s th e hon. memb er feE!ls notAl, becau se I IAJa s subjected t o 1n u c h t h e s arn e f r u s t r a t i o n s lAJi . t h L985 Jun e 23, 1989 Vol XLI respect: to a provincial park For quite a number of years, ev en prior to my time as a tTtombE!r of the House of Assembly; and I gaV E! indication at the t:i.me that the decisi on, as it related to Naskaupi district, or the upper Lake MeJ.vi1le area, tJJas on a purely politica 'l bas is, cJ.ear·ly understood and accepted, in tha t context, I mt::'an, by everybody tAJho wa s knowledgeable about it .

At the sarne t.irne, I assur,~d the member that there were no political, parti san, or patronag e consideration s in any deci sion s that carn e with resp ect to the alJocati.on of funcHnq frotn !Ali t.h:in my departm ent. As you kno1.u, the buclg,~l: tAJas presented very shortl.y after our taking the lnf:>ins of l:he P1nov'ince, and tAl~:! had to rE:,J.y, as I as su1nC::! hon. ITtc:~rnbt.>rs IAJi'Ll under·stand, f•1r. Speaker, quite heavily on :i.nput from very professional public SE•rvants.

L;Jho, IAJ:ith thE•.i.tn va~;t knowledge and experience, were able to ~Jive advicE! t,;J:L'l:.h tnespecl. to where funding a11oc<::~.tion shou'ld go tJJit·h l~f'!SpE·ct l:o pl"ov:i.ncoii't] paIn k S . r () b !"! CJ 1.1 i. l. l:! hI) 1"1 US t d h ,·,II i: it, fl-11". Spe<. '< k e; ··. I lAld ~; _j u ~:. l. ,:'t ~:. disappointed as the han. the member for Green Bay when we could nol:. 1nake Fundinq c'llJaoil.<·1ble>, ;3.1.: t h a l:. p 0 j 11 l. , f 0 In l.~ h (! p I'' 0 p 0 S (' d provincial pa1nk in 111y CliAln district.

And, you knotAl, not lo b''' deroqat:or·y in cH1Y IAJay, shape 01" For1n, 1 cloubL ve1ny ll'luc:h tha t ·.in l:. h e s E! v E:' n L c• C! n y e d 1n s p I"' i o r· l: o L h : :• L i. b E'! l" a 1 S F 0 I" 111.i . n g l: h E! ~j U lJ c::• I' · n II I U n t·: this time, that thaL particular approach would have been applted Oln h;::td b::,en etpp "l Lt,•d <?Xc1u~; i.tJP ly all the t.uay thtnough th<:lt sevent.een years. In fact, 1 l:hink th,:.>re is good E!VidE:H1Ce, perhaps, that t.hetnE• was quite a high level of poJ :i.ti.caJ. pat:TonagE!. I a111 no l.. casLinq aspel"sions at:. any one No . 19 1~9 8 :;

particular individual, but I think that was the case. I would like to be able to say that, as far as we are concerned, we would hope to avoid that sort of a situation. I would love to have enough money to provide the hon. member with funding for Crescent Lake. By the same token, I would love to have enough money to be able to see a park established in my district and any other district that requires a provincial park. It is just not financially possible at this time.

But I have respondE!d to some correspondence fro1n his district and said that it tAJi11 be given active consideration, to the best of my ability, with funding constraints and so on, in my tenure with responsibiJ.ity for pa1nks . He made reference to a 1 petty vendetta 1 , a term he USE!d, and that is his choice. As a member of thE! House, he is quite frE!t:! to use anything that could be considered parliamentary language.

But I want to assure the hon. mE!rrtbE!r that I certainly Fr:'el no vindict.iu1~nr:'SS towar'ds l:he foJ~JTteJ" adnJ . .i.nistJ~al:.i.on or' iHlY member of that: admi.nistration, and I lAJould like to believe, in Fact I do believe, thal: my colleagues share my particular sentinents, that it is not a question of penalizing clistTicts J~E!presented by members oF the Prog1nessive Conservative Party. MR. HEWLETT: What about penalizing a district represented by a former Premier who made the Liberals miser0ble for ten years? MR.

KELLAND: NotAl, Mr. the hon . without L986 Spe1ak1:'r, I membr:'r 1 s l:.en interrupting JunE:' 23, 1989 sat through rntnute l:alk him and I Uol XU would ask for the same courtesy. He has another opportunity, a t.E!n minute segment in which he can ask questions and pose those questions. I feel absolutely no vindictiveness in any political way towai~ds the forrnE!r mE!rrtbE!I~ Fot" Gret::~n Bay, any mOI"O l:han r. do For' the present member. I feel no need, Mr.

Speaker, to somehow wreak vengE!ance on a district in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador that made a free, democratic choice on who should represent them. The Naskaupi District did the sa me thing. I would not propose to penalize a Progressive Conservative district because nobody in this House received 100 per CE!nt oF thE! uote in their di s trtcts . So i·F anyonE• attempts to penalize Progre ss ive Conservative or New Democratic supporters, they tJ.Jould al ::. u be pE:'nalizing the Li .berals :in t.he district .

And I certainly arn not going to put myseJ.f in that posiU.on, nor tAJi.ll IllY co1lt::!ague. I realize that in FrusLrat-.ion he:! u s e d t h e t E' t' ITt 1 p e t t y v t:'! n cl e l t: a 1 , b u t· r. l:. a I< 1? ex, 1:! p 1-i o r1 iF i'l c:• i n L E· n d e d l h a l. L f:! l" ITI L o i:: c ,:, p p l i. c· cl to rne and my colloagLII:!S. rhal: ts not rny approach no!~ w:i.l.l i.t:. C'!VE·I~ b 1:~ in :n v l: E! n u i" c:• as a rn i. n is t. 1,, 1~ , b u \: I u n d E' r s t a n d t. h r:o f r u s l.T i~t 1 -i n n , <'t !'H'I l:hat is really Lht::' poinl:. [ IAJanL. l:.o make.

The hon. member did not get rnonE!Y for a pa1~k of his dis l:ric t, but this hon. rn<::!rnbr::•r d:i.cl nuL ei thPr, and I hatH' soJne '3i.'tY in whE•Jne SOI'IJI: '! of l:hr:! Fund:i .n<,:) qo(·~; tJ.Jith rospect to pi~ov'i.nc.i.a1 parks. lt is i.nd(!E!d t.hE! concHpL of' 1'-aiJ~nns s and bal.::·•ncr::! L.hd l- l.I.Jrc! h,:'tlJ:c• been proposing and promoting all the way through the election campaign, and s:ince lAJE• have fonnecl the gOVE!I~nff!E!I1t. fhE!re lAJas a refei~E.•nu:• by l:.hl? No . 19 r~ 9 8 6

Chairman, too, I just remembered that, Mr. Speaker, about the highway signs with regard to li~t~ring. I believe in his report he said the departments involved should take a firmer stand, and I totally agree with that concept. How we can approach it I have not reached a conclusion on. I can assure the han. mE!mber. Mr. Speaker, that indeed sometimes thE!re are signs that. are not properly or fully enforced, so they really ar·e of little valUE!. A 'No Parking' sign is an example, I suppose.

A 'No Parking' sign in a certain area that is ignored and people park there, weLl.. eithE•r take l:he sign down or enforcE! l:he sign. By the same token, in that simple example, with highway littering signs, I suppose it is very difficult to catch somebody lit.teJning. But in thE! eVE!nt that they are caught in the act I think a fairly stiff pE!nalty should apply and courts should be E!ncouraged to discourage that kind of an activity.

Our Province is a very, VE!ry beauU .ful piece of lhis earth and, if we continue to spoil it and pollute. eventually there tArill nol: be anything left:. of any real value to anybody who comes afteln us. fhe other references, depending upon my tirrw, wc1ne issur;•s lni:'l.jsed by l:he hon. members For Grand Falls, the Opposition House Leader. It particularly related to the sooting incident j n Grand Falls aL the Abibiti-Price operation theine.

I d'id give SOrTIE! information in l:he Qu•~st.ion Per·iod the day before yeslerday, that information which l had at the time. and adclit:.i.onall.y, in !::hat part of the agenda which permitted it yesterday, some follo~~up information. I do not really have a great deal of information to acid since yesterday. Mr. Sp•:~aker. but L.987 June 23, 1989 Vol XLI the han. member made some points that perhaps I could touch on. I have not seen copy other than what was recorded in the print media with reference to what m'ight have come from the press conference that Abibiti-Price had as a result of this incident.

My information was that yes, indeed, as thE! hon. rnernber sa:id. quite a number of calls had bE~ en rE!Ceived at AbibiU.-Price and that quite a few people apparently had bE!en affE•ctE!d by thr:! sool incident. Media r•?.port:s indicated that and hon. members have indicated that, and while I did not see it pe1nsonally I haV('! no reason to disbt::.l.oii':'Vl' any oF Ul<.il information.

I also mentioned in the House that WE:~ had been in contact -- not. tilE! personally. but. my departrm:~nt. tAJith Abitibi --Price ~'lnd that a Full report was going to be filed by them, and they indicated to us that while claims were being rE~c•:>ived they had apparE!n t-ly a c c e p t E' d a fa j 1n b :.i l.. o ·r: l .. h c• Jnr:'Sponsibi .lity, .ir: nol- al1 of lh <:> responsibiLi .ty, :i.n l:.hal l..hey u.JoulcJ judge each claim, t::'ach situal· ... i.on on its merits and it would be handlr,,d on a case by cas::- bas is. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member's lime has elapsed . MR. KELLAND: Leave?

Jus L r: o I" a r~ I'' tAl :; e c u n d ~:: 1: o tAtr·ap up? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. Ml~. KELLAND: r .. ··-a ·m---.. r1a·t-- absolutely certa:in at. l:his stage, in vie~! of l:he Facl. that the company has said that they would respond on a case by No. 19 R98'/

case basis, if indeed there is a need for, let us say, an arbitrary instruction to the company that they had better do thi s or that. You know, if indeed claims go in and the claimants are satisfied with the results they get from the company, that may very we11 take c ar~~ of that aspe ct of it. So I would suggest th at probably we should allow at least a fair time to allow the company to respond to that.

At the same time the suggestion that the hon. m ~ mber for Grand Falls made, l:hat perhaps a temporary of fice for easy accessibility by claimants may be establi shed , that may very weJ.l have been done by the company. I can try to determine that today or my officials can.

And the other suggestion, I think, w~d.ch bears s omE~ merit, and I will certainly di scuss it with my co11eagues, is thE! fact that t hel~E! perhaps should be some follow-up by a number of government departrnents, Health, Labour Relations t.uith rE•spect to industrial safety and so on, and my depa rt men t fr om an environmental po int of vi ew. t am also very cul~iou s to SE!e the report as to the ex planation as to wh at r ealJ.y happened there. We know fl ~O irl t:he rep ort: . t:.h at:.

I!Je have al re ady rE~ c e i vc~ d th at t1 1c~ r e was a light ening strike at the TMP, thE! thermo rnc•chanical pulp pJ.ant, and U1at thE:'Y had to foin'! up another boiler f·or th E~ he at Jos s t here a nd per· haps t:ha t 1nay have been t:he causE• for Uw supel~hE~atE!r tub e:! to explod1:'! and th at would cau s r,~ the E!rn ".is sion by a grE!at: gush of steam up t:hl ~o u<Jl ·, Uw st ack, I!Jh ich apparently had some con siderable oily re sidue, of so ot.

Why t:ha'l: should b1'.! wa s nonnaJ. to haV E:' r1''s idu e or t:hat the case, iF "it that kind of a quanl :ity of a L988 June 23 , 1.989 Vol XLI residue in place, would have to be looked at. With respect to Hw age of the equipment, and such a thing should not have happened, that will have to be looked at. So I think it was a very worthwhile sugg estion, certainly one we wiJ.l take under consideration wit h re spe ct to follow -up investigations by th os e departments and those rn:inis t<::!rs who have a direct concern. Th ere may hav e be en one or two other points. But.

I lAJould l.ike l:o express thank s For the le ave to finish off, and if I have an opportunity a little la te r on I can address some of th e ot:h t' l~ issues . Thank you, Mr. Speak er. SQME HON ._MEf1BER~.: Hear, hear! MR. HEWLErT : Mr. Speaker . MR . SPEAKER : The han. l:he 1ner nber For Cr1 ::!E !n Bay . Ml~. HEWLErT: Tharli<Y -ot.i ·,- MI". Speak''!i ". I wou1d like to make a fE!lAI r'eiTtal~ks.

The hun Lh•' Mi.nis\".:;r' of Social Services yestPrday i~ the Concurrence debates on R e s o u 1~ c E• E s t i. rna t e s mad 1.:. l" ern a~~ k :> that were not altogether relevant, but I th".ink 1 havE~ a ris1hL unde1" that: c.iJ~curnst:.ance to r·e~;prn1d. The han. rninisb:'l~ att:acked rne basicaJ.ly because the eighth floor l~ight 110\kl is d ('('i'\~::uni:'ible sui t·:lc' or offi.ces fo1~ a Fil"St M:l.nistl'.!l". When I was placed in charge of the Premier's Office by Premier Peckford in 19'79 t:he car'pEd: lAJas so bad that you could see the underlay through it. It lAJas wor·n No. 1.9 r~9 s n

out. Premier Moores had done absolutely nothing with the physical facility, so basically what we inherited was what Premier SmallL\Jood gave up. And I make no apologies to anyone on the face of this earth for spending $750,000 of the taxpayers money to make the Office of th e First Minister of this Province fit for a First Minister, and the curren t First Minist er, Mr. Wells, I am sure has settled in nicely. He is being treated in the manor, m-a-n-o-r, to which he has become accustomed. AN HON. MEMBER : Ha! Ha! Ha! That is a good joke . MR. HEWLETT: It might be a good joke, Mr .

Speaker, bu t it is a valid comment . With regard t:o the hon. MinistE•r of Environment and Lands and l:his park and our mutual frustrations, might I add that the Liberal Party were great on prE!aching, wH:h regard to us, our preceived political patronage and our preceived favo1ni tism, etc ., frorn their point of view. But I guess. in l:E!n 'ns oF my distl"ict oF GJ"(!r0n Bay rig ht now, I am gE!lting, IAJhal: you might call, a negative favoritism.

I told my constituents when 1 was running, both for the nomination and For the election. that one of the biggest problems I would have. assurning I t!Jas on l:he tAJinning side, wou1d be:! convind .ng the goVE!rnrnE!nt l:.ha l: Gn.'e~n Bi.'lY did not have everything under the sun done and that there were a lot of things, because it was a rural district , neglected for ttAJenty--threE! years by the Liberals, that needed to be done. So, to the hon . Minister of Environm ent and Lands , with his park fru st rat ion s, al l I can say L989 June 23, 1989 Vol XU is that, two wrongs do not mak e a right .

If previous administrations wronged that hon. minister's district. then finE!. hE! has a valid complaint, but tha t is no excuse for exacerbating the situation and per secuting Gre en Bay district because it happened to have a fi rst rnini ste?.r as .-its previous MHA. I would also indicatE! to lhE! Minister of Environmenl7. and Lands that I just a few rnoJTIE!nts ago l:ook a telephone call From the local nE!WspapE!r in lhE• GrE!Nl Bay aJnE!a, The Nor'wester, and they put a question to me that I must admit I was ignorant oF, and l:.ha t- is something called swimmer's itch.

It wou1d appear that a couple::> of ponds that arE! USE!d f'otn lnE:•crE!at:i .on purpo ses in Gre en Bay have:' a certain bug or microbe in them l: hat is paras :il~ . i c to St~<lillllne r' s <.Hld causes skin ir 1n:i.ta tion, E•Lc. -lhe departmental official s in his departrnE!nt, I gather, have rE!fu se:!d to post tAJar 'ni ng signs on the beaches to thE! efr "ec t. that swimming could cause skin irritation or ot:her il ln es s. I would btning Ud.s l:o th e lllini.s Le Jn Is attention, Lh clt t h~ Jo c2J newspaper is on this matter and local people are concerned .

Mf~. ~liMMS : Why would l:hey rE!fuse :· l.o pul : up a few signs? MR. HEWLETT : Wh y l:hE !Y tAJo uld r'el:l .ISt:' t:o pul - up signs? I do not kn ow , Mr. Speaker, but l:hat is l:he co1npla i.nt that .-is now in Lhe lo ccl] newsp a p e~ r . and .I l~<J o ul.d cn lllliWnd ! he attention of the Environment Minister to this mal.b .>r . Mr. Speaker, I have sat in this House now Fo r a few weeks, I sp ent fift ee n yea rs as a po litica1 aide No. 19 1\ ') 8 9

and now I am a politician. I indicated earlier to the Government House Leader that Green Bay is being persecuted and I think that is the case. Green Bay does not have everything done. We have been in Confederation for forty years, Mr. Speaker, and for the first twenty-three absolutely nothing was done in Green Bay when it was on the LibE!ral Government side. Even when Premier Smallwood's son was our member we got nothing. Brian Peckford's tenure of seventeen years could not completely cure what needed to be done in the di strict of Gr een Bay and ther e a lot of things needing to be done . The government, Mr.

Sp eaker, can spE!nd whE!re :i.t chooSE!S and it is my point that l~hE! s1overnment chose not to spE!nd in Gr E!E!n Bay and the people of Green Bay are very tAiell aware of the fact that spending was not done there and they are highly suspi cious, Mr . Sp eaker, that th1 :> district is being picked on because Brian Peckford was the former minister. Th ere is a myth on the go that we have 1::>v erything. II-. is f,~ont pctg•:- hea dl ines in las t Wed nes day's edi tion, 'Gr een Bay Getting ShaftE!d' . MR . GRIMES : You are th e memb er wh o did the shafting . MR . HEWLETT : I did not shaft Green Bay, Mr.

Speaker. spoken out enough on behalf of Green Bay, Green Bay is getting done in because of who the former minister tAJas, a man who made l~he lives of the Liberals in this Province miserable For quite a long time. MR . GRIMES : Who suggested that headline in the paper? MR. HEWLETT: I did not suggest the hea dline, Mr. Speaker, as the member for Exploits is indicating. The pap er wrote its own headline . I ju st told the paper the facts. It seE!ITlS I am hitU.ng a raw spot., Mr. Speakt':!r.

I made :' a speech YE!Sterday and thE• M~i.ni s tE·r~ of' Soci.a1 Services L\Jen\:. al·: 111::· pet~sonal1y bE!Cause 1 r( !novatecl thr.:• Premier's office dtH 'ing a len y ~:! al" lE!nn wor ~ king in H.·.. MaybE• the people fr~om Gre~: ·n Bay lAioi 11 continue to E!1ect me, Mr ". Speaker', because whatever I am saying is touching a sens~i.ti .VE! ner"ve on t.hr::• other side, or should I say a r"esponsiVE! discord frorn th e otht''l" s i. d e . A n y Lu a y • iVJ r . ~3 p t::' a k t:' r • 111 y di str"ict, for" L<Jhal .. t:!VE !I"' r",:•d::.u n, i·, :. being persecuted.

The hon . ministers opposite know it. the press know it and they are becoming irrita ted when I say it . I thank you, Mr . Speaker . SOME HON . MFMBE RS : Hear. hear! MR. SPEAI<ER : MR. GR IME S : The han. the rn.:'mber For Plac c:•ntia . You got E!lE!clocl, rj_ qht:? MR. HEWLE TT: I got E!lectE!d, Mr . SpeakE!r. and the people of Green Bay are getting donC::! :i.n, not becauSE! of me. beca use certainly I have L990 Jun e 23, 1989 Vol XLI MR. HOGAN: Thank you, Mr. Sp eak er. I would 1ike to thank for hi s support genero sity . How ever , No . 19 Lt~ader and I jus\ :. No. 2 hj s want R990

to inform the House that Rambo is alive and well. He showed up on the Trans-Canada yesterday and with his trucks and forklifts decended upon the community of Fairhaven and stole the fish belonging to the communities of Southern Harbour, Little Harbour and Fairhaven. The Grinch that stole Christmas, well, he showed up yesterday in Fairhaven. Mr. Speaker.

If I might, just for the sake of being accused of repetition, my good friend enumerated again the small, nitty-picky items that were used to close that plant and take three tractor loads of fish, 120,000 of fish valued at $4-0,000 to $50,000 away from thE! fishermen. with nobody getting paid. Now, on l:hat list, Mr. SpE!aker. there arE! a numbe~r of items. particularly thl:> one that deals with the plywood top tab1e. Mr. Speakc:!r. I have been in the occupational health and safety business For twenty-five years or more. and I am used to enforcing regulations.

When I found a discrepancy like that, if you Found an unsafe laddE!t~ in UtE• wot~kpJ.aCE!. fat~ example?, you u.JOuld take t:he:>. ladder. I would not shut down the pellet: plant, the Furnace building. or the fish plant. So iF they had to tAJalk in, take the bloody t.abJ.e on them. and throtAJ :i.t. over the wharf. t:hen they would have to get a good tabJ.E·. It. was only a splitting table. Now, all the others on it, I cannot accept at all as solid discrepancies, to do anything other than tAJarn thE! opE!t~ator.

I have:> b~C!en "investigal:ing l:hi.s thing, had the Full co-operation oF the Minister of Fisher·ies. and we concur, to a degree, that. the operator tA.Jas not: 100 per CE!nt right. Do you SN! the fWC going to the end of the street down L991 June 23, 1989 Vol XLI there and art~esting people and re!possessing their cars for going through a stop sign? These kind of high-handed methods on the part oF officials have to be tempert?.d with somr:~ SE!nsiU.vity and somE:! compassion.

These men and women in Little Harbour, Fairhaven and Southern Harbour depend on the Fishery for a living, and it is all they have down there. Caplin has not: been that good a catch this year. They were depending on a good cod fishery. ThE!Y WE!r'E! dc;•pE!nding on the operator there to take the fish into that particular plant, which incidenta1ly is owned by t:he Province. And. to give you sorne background. the opE!rat:ot" did corne to the Province, did receive instructions on what to do and tA.Jhat not to do. and E!Ven carnt::! up lAiith sorne Financial assist:ance t:o do the things that had to be done.

The things that:. had to bt:• done amounted to only about $5000. It wil.l be said that t:he~ opE!rator is probably at Fault because he did not come in <utd pick up his J.:Lcense. StjJ.] the:•J"e i.s no reason to take?, ot" sc:'i .ze, 120,000 pounds of fish, just l<;il u:· it away and shut:. dotA.Jn the plant. I would like to thank members opposite, and the trte,,rnbers on t:his side, fat~ l:hc:!:i.tn suppCltnt :in L.h·.is particular issue. Yes, I use t.he word that. somebody else used earlier. I think WE• have to kc:!op the pressutne on a] 1 of these t:hings concE>r'ninlJ thtc!

Fi .shury, iHtd be non -partisan in our approach. I would also J.ike to advise the House thaL l:he Dt::-parl:Jnent . of FisheriE!S, under thE:! rn i.n:i.s ter ·' s direction, has checked out the product and has found that :i.t:. i.s saFely s l:or·ed and that his officials are on the SCE!l'1E! at the Fish plant this rnorninq to s :~e No. 19 R991.

that everything is brought up to snuff . I think they bought some toilet paper with them and some paper towels. I do not know if the brass doorknobs that we had downstairs hidden away for a while would suffice, or they brought an elastic band or something to make the door self-closing. But anyway, provincial officials are on the scene this morning and they are co-operating and working with the operator to get that plan ·t up to snuff. And, hopefully, the product tJ..r.ill be back in the hands of the fisherrrtE!n.

They will get paid, the oper·ator tJ..Jill get paid and probably at the end of the weekend, or probably before that, within hours, this terrible episode to~Jill come to a happy conclusion. But it is just an example, Mr. SpE!aker, of what gri€~f and hardship can be brought to thJ~ee communities by the heavy-handed approach by officialdom, whether they are ours or lAJhE!ther thE!Y are someone else's . And I would urge this HousE! to at least encourage our officials, when carrying out their duties to temper with SE!nsil:ivil:y and compassion For the people on the other side.

And I am not condoning the wrongdoings of people, but tAlE' have to understand and W€• have to set some measure of priority. As a rnal:tE!J~ of fact, I tAJas horrified the other night in one of the Estirnab:>s Comrnillet:•s when c;ne of the hon. rnembE!r's t.hE!re, and I arn not sure who il: to~Jas, boughl~. up that some U .rne ago, tAJithin thE! last rnont:h 01~ so, <3. l~estdent oF his constituency in Labrador was sentenced to two weeks for catching t.en pounds of trout, trout, actually, that they thernSE!lVE•s haVE! put in the watE!rs and then let tht'rn grotAJ and lAJE:'nt L992 June 23, 1989 VoJ.

XLI back to retrieve. Tt.uo weeks ! If rnt::~rnory serVE!S mE! one was a senior citizen. So he is spending hois retiring years in comfort in a cell for two weeks . rhat is heavy-handed of fic iaJ.dom, Mr . Speaker. And I would urge all members of this hon. House in contact with officialdom, in contact with rnernbers, in contact with ministers and their friends. both parties, to ease off on the heavy ironhanded rnE!thods that. are apparently being practiced by certain officoials. I will not bother to use up all of my tirnE!. Mr.

SpE!aker, and I thank you for your atl:E!ntoion and Lhank all hon. rrtE!rnbers fo1~ thE!ir suppol~t in this particular "incident . Thank you . SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: fhe han. the member For forngat Mountains. ~-~-- ~--.JiBB...~-~~- : Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker . I tJ..Janl: to have a fE•lAJ lAJOI"cls in Lhe concurrence dt:!bal:e. Mr. SpE!akE!I~. I just J.istened to thE• hon. rnernbel" For PlaCE!nl~.ia conce1~ning Lhe fishE!ry and concernin<:1 LAJha'l activity has happen••d in l:he la·,l·_ llAl E! n t y -f 0 U I~ 0 r l h :1.

I~ t y ··· S j X h 0 U I" S out in l:he area. [am tAJondE!r ··i.ng if the member realizes and the rninist(!r' l~t:•al.iz(:•s l:hal: 11'10~-,1:. oF those fisherrnE!n who haVE! soJ.d tht=>.ir fish to this particuld.r buyer haVE! not I~E•CEdVE!d any ITIOrH:!y so far. Those fishE•rrnen havt:~ not rE!Ceived any financi.aJ. payiTJE!nl:. I had several calls last night No. 1.9 R992

because I think the hon. gent.leman knows that I do have some interest in that particular ar ea, as relatives of mine are among those people sold fish to Mr. Wadman. At the same time, Mr. Speaker, I hope the Minister of FisheriE!S will make some comments after I am finished, because I arn just wondering, Mr. Speaker, was there a processor 1s licence issued to this particular company? When was it issued? And did stipulations accompany this processor 1s licence? I think it is only fair to say, at the same time, that the particular company has not in the past followed all the rules and regulations of the game.

I think that is a Fair assumption, Mr. Mini ster , and I am ju st uJonder·ing iF you should enl.ightt:!n the House as to whether all the rules and regulations of the game have been addr essed by this particular buy er. The fishermen arE! really concerned . They are wondering now what:. l:hey are going to do with ·th e r e c Ed p t s that 1: hey l~t ::>ceived Fr om th1:- purcha se1n, wheth E•ln th E!Y hf.lVE! to La ke them to the Saltfi sh Cor po rati on or whether it is going to be the Fed eral government. It is a very, ve ry ser ious probJ. ern. Mr.

SpE !aker, I aJ.s o w ant to men tion about the fisheroies in my district . I am qui -l:E! pJ.E·asE•d, in Fa ct [ am estat .ic, knouring l:hat we have two tencl ro!lns c1os E~ d now fo1 n a new Fish plant 'in Nain and a new fish plant in Makkovik. I know l:he hon. rn1:'1nber for Candt:H' is looking at me. l migh t. ad d th r:!~;e IJ..J ere i n i t i at i v e s by the for' rn e r gove1nnrnent. The Marin t::' Centeln at Ma k k o vi k was an in it i at i v e by the former government. Mr. Speaker, Furthermore, I lJJOU ld L.993 Jum' 23, 1989 Vol XLI think it is g6ing to be very, very beneficial . Mr.

MinistE!r, I appreciate your time with the Hopedale delegation a couple of days ago. We have to address the serious problem at Hopedale concerning some kind of a processing facility therE· :i.n that community . As you know, M1n. SpE!aker, the fisheriE!S is a very, very bright spot Fo1n NorthE!Inn Labrador. but I think. as M1 ~ . Flowers has said to th~~ minist er, 'Give us a chance to get some of it. Let us not just hav e lon•::J liners corning in from othE!In pa r Ls of Labrador and Newfoundl and and taking all our fi sh. Give us an opportunity l:o catch sotne. Now, Mr. Speake in.

I lAii::trlt to <.:JO t.o the Minister of Development. I cannot talk ab out th E• De par t.ni ~H'd~ of DevelopiTienl: . unlE•ss I have lh::~ full attention of th e minist er. Mr. Speaker, I uJan l: to say agcdn that the Minister of Fi sheries, the MinisU~r of- Deu ~~ loptn e nl: and the Minister of Employment and Labour Relations, those three ministers were tho on] y three minisl :.:::'rs tJJho l:.ook l-i.tne out:. l:o lnE•E•t rny clr:•J r:•gati on l:.hdL tAii'l ~> ir1 L:l s t t;.J e e k For s C! v C! r" a l d i:1 y ::. l~ c w :.:c• L the rn:i.niste1ns. So thoSE! lhn:!f:! ministers I t.uant to c o mm~::,nd.

They g a v e u s t h P. j ln t -[ rn (' ' t:. h (:> M :.l r,-1 " lr:• I'' (J 1'- [Ill p 10 y ITI E· n t- \:-1 n cl L d I:J () illn Re1ation s, the Minister of Fisheries, and the Minister of Dr:-veloprnent.. Not.IJ, t:.hE•]nlo' [,\)1"'1"(• rOLlin 1rrint s ters as ked Lo rnCC:! l~ tAli Lh MR. SIMMS : cT T~)T: )-(;-,1 5 ? ... - MR. WARREN: No, no! and not onE :! of UlE!m lAiou]d lAJi.th UH:'In. rhey C di"IH?! up No. 19 0 l_ht•i" t h1: ::n rneeL IJ..J:i l: h 1\99 3

excuses. In fact. the minister they wanted to meet with more than anyone else was the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. Mr. Speaker. besides him, Education. ther~-:. the was also, Minister of MR. SIMMS: Not important enough for him. MR. WARREN : No. Knowing thE! Minister of EducaU.on, I have to tell you this one. This is the best ever.

I said to the Minister of Education. 'You would not take time to meet tAli th my delegation.' He said, 'WE!l}, I t;..Jas going to fn13E•t tJJith them. 1 I said, 'But you toJ.d an ADM to rneE!t wi l:h thE!rn. ' With that he met us :in l:he hallway and he held out his hand. as he usually does. and he said. 'How are you getting on. I rnet you before. 1 This was the first time this gentlE!rnan had E'VE!r bE!E!n into St. John's. the firs 1: time this gentJ.eman ever saw the minister. It was rrally ironic that lhe Minister of Education said. 'I met you before. we talked before,' and all this kind of stuff.

Anyway, I want to go ba ck to Minister of Development. This a very, very serious concern. MR. GRIMES : the is You are going to get a lot more if you keep getting on like that. MR. SIMMS : No threats now. You already threatened one group and got chastised for it by the Premier . MR. WARREN : Mr. Speaker, I also want to say 1_')94 June 23, 1989 Vol XLI that ths Premier even took time out to meet with the delegation. MR. SIMMS: He did? MR . WARREN: Sure. Mr .

Speaker, I am disappoinLE·d with the Minister of Education, I am disappointE!d tJJith the Ministe1n of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, and I am disappointE•d wil:h the MinistE!r of Finance. ThE!Y tAJanted to rnE!E•t with thr:• .Minister· of Finance, too, by Lh1:> way, but he tJJas gJ.uE•d onto his chair· and he could nol: ll'lt:!t::d: t;..J'Ll ~h them. Anyway, I lAJant to get back l:o r:hr::• Mj.nistE!I" of DE!VE'1opllll':!nt bt::·cause i.L. is very serious.

Th: :! governrnent operate 's fiVE! stores in the Noi"Lh, and I Lh'.ink, in all Fainwss dnd not because this individual was part oF the governiiJE:'nl~ in l:.he pas l: tt;..JO or three years, thore WE!I''E! a lot of improve1nonts can·ied out in those stort:~s. MR. SIMMS: Do not be ~:a 1110,:les l:.. MR. WAR I~ EN: Hot;..leVeln, "i:·.hc,'lnE• art'' prob] r::•rns.

Fol" e x a rn p 1 (~ , i n 1-1 o p e d a 1 1:! i l:. s e 11-- • U 1 ::• rnints'LE!r hE!ard tu.Jo ~~en Llernen lAd l .. h opposil:e points of v"i.elAJ. rhl? mayor said, 'No clinY~Joocls :in the g o v (H' n me n l: s t o r e . ' A c o u n c i 11 u ;" said. 'Yes, lAW lAJrHll:. clr·yqoocls ·in l: h e s t o I'' e . I n r= c~'l c l:. • a ') p e r· c l:• n l:. of the people in Hopedale, by a p1:! tit iol!, h.:w e s did l:hE !Y wi :'"'l: drygoocls Jn l:he store. But th0 problem is. lhe mayor is a bus:inessrncln in the corr11nunit :y. AN HON. MEMBER : Is he a Liber·al? No. 19 R'J9 4

MR. WARREN: Well, it is very, very, interesting about the Mayor of Hopedale. I wished the Mayor of Hopedale was in the galJ.ery now - he was earlier, and is on his way back. In 1985, when I made the tJJise decision to join this party, the Mayor of HopedaJ.e, at that time, thought he made a IAJise decision; he stJ..Jitched over, too. So. the Mayor of Hopedale, I would think, is pretty welJ. painted red these days. But that is beside the point, we just crossed to opposite sides. MR. FUREY: He was a Tory when you were a Liberal, and when you became a Tory, he became a Libera].? MR. WARREN : That is right . MR.

FUREY: That makes sense -right or wrong . MR. WARREN: So, Mtn . Speaker, I arn just saying WE• do have a concern, and I tell the rninistE•r noiAJ in advance. that probably on Tuesday. I will have a pE!ti tion conCE!rning the satriE! thing to present in this House, from anothE!r community, which says they want drygoods in stores. I say to the minister, the drygoods weJnE! not put in thE! stores during the election, and the mini ster wants to know why not. I suppose, Mr. Speakl:'r, :it would be only fair for me to telJ him. [ advist::'d l:he staff not:. to put the drygoods in the stores during the election .

I had already beat.E!n rny opponE!nt; I think he saved his nomina ·t.ion fee by one vote. Just imagine, if the dtnygoods werE~ in l:he sto1nes, IAJi th all the communities 95 per cent in Favour, they would have said I L99 5 Ju rw 23, 1.989 VoJ. XLI used government influence to get more votes. I would not do that. So I made surE! drygoods werE! not put in the stores until after the election. MR. FUREY : You were restructuring your riding from Goose Bay, by the way? AN HON. MEMBER : Has the minister been to Hop edale? MR. WARREN: No , he t s going up this S u rnm E! r .

He advised me that he is going to be travelling with rne this Summer. He has asked rne l:o co:ne along with him. I am sure he will have a good insight on tho North. I am quite pleased the minister is go'ing up because I bel.iE•VI:;! a rn:i.nistE!r shou1d go up LhE!lnE• i:Hicl find oul: For' hints1~lF E!xacl:.ly IJ..Ji1al: is going on. Now, Mr. Speaker, I is short, but I do comment. MR. SPEAKER : kno1.u my tJ.rne have another The hon. member's time has elapsed . MR. WARREN: I wan{: to ask the Minister of HeaJ. th, whE!re arE• the logs of t.he a 'i. r c r a F l:. F r o rn M a y 2 9 l:. o J tl n e S ?

T h ~=~ m :i. n i s t e I" s a i d i . f h I''' c i'l n legally do so, he wi.11 table l:.ht? logs of this particular Flight. NotJJ, the lllinisbH' has · sa:id l:hat publicly, so wh1 :•n IAJi]] he t:able those Flight lnE!pOl"LS ol lh:~ CornrnandE!r a:ir'cr'af't. Frorn ~)L . Anthony to St.. John's and re t.urn bett.o~.JBE!n the elates of May 29 and Junt~ 5? MR. SPEAKER: The han. member's time has elapsed. nH.?. hon . the Mi.nistE!r oF F'OrE!S lry and Aqricult.ure. No. :1.9 R99':i

MR. FLIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I had no intention, Mr. Speaker, of getting involved in this debate, but when my good friend from Grand Falls tJJi th whom I want so much to co-operate in this House, asked some very sensible questions and requested I stand and give the answers, I could not resist it. And now, he is leaving, Mr. Speaker. MR. SIMMS: More research. MR. FLIGHT: More research. Call Abititi and Kruger. Do you want the phone numbers? MR. SIMMS: I had them long before you did. MR. FLIGHT: Yes, I know. But, to answer his questions, Mr .

Speaker, about the spray program, whose advice I acted upon or did not act upon, the fact is, Mr. Speaker, the spray program t.uas impl,?.rnented after I had the advice of a11. rny oFFicials, all the Fc'd"~ral people who had input into the thing, all the paper companies, days and days of discussion, and the decision was rnadr:~ based on the adv ·tce oF al1 thosE• very, very knowledgeablE! people, Mr. Speaker. And l:he mernber will b(:~ glad to know that, given the scope of the program, given thE! fact that.

WE' wen• only spraying 6, 000 hecta1nes, given the fact that the looper infestation t.uas about to co1lapse, giv,:-n the Fact that:. tAlE! had Four options, I suppose - one opt. ion was no l: to spray at aJ.J., another op I: ion was to spray with 100 per cent Bt, another option was to spray with 100 per cent Fenitrothion, and another opt:ion was to us< '! a 1_')96 June 23, 1989 Vol XL.[ percentage of both - bas~:!d on all the advice that I couJ.d get ftnorn my officials, we agreed, Mr.

Speaker, given all those circumstances, that Bt would provide an acceptable level of protection for the trees, and that is what WE! arE! dcdng, Mr. Speaker. This progr·arn that:. [just: outlined, Bt would provide an acceptable level of protection and, of course, based on a11 that. advice we went with the Bt program. I can te 11 you, Mr. Speaker, there IAJas a gr·~~at sigh of relief across this Province when the word went out that we were going to go tJJith Bt :in Lh.is particular Y"~ar. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! M R _:__fliG H_I_ : Mr. SpeakE!r, you SE!E! the llll:!llibel~ standing in the door.

I raised this earlier in the House, that they made such a fuss, that it t.1.:as so wrong this year to spray 6, 000 hectares of Forest tAJil:h Bt, bul:. i.t was so right to spray 23,000 hectares last year. r h e h o n . t: h e L '" ad ''! I" o r·: 1 h e Oppositi .on, Leader No. 1, not Leader No. 2, Mr. Speak,=:!r, got up in the House and asked me if I had taken in to cons i d u t' at. ion 1: hE! i\ll'tAJ Bruns wi c k ex peri en c e .

D :i. d I no t know that the spray program in New Brunswick was a .dismal fai1ure, l:hat :it had not tJJoJ·'ked l:his yc:'ar, so this year they decided that l:hey would nol: go lAril:h a l:.ol:.a.l 13L. prograrn? Doe s the:! ITIE!IIibei~ fol" Grand Fal.ls know hou. J 1nany l:housand h e c ·t a I" E! s h a s b f:• r:! n s p r· a y e d :i n N "' t-1i BrunstJJick l:his year tArith 13l:, in spite of the great fai.1tH'E!? HotAJ many? MR. SIMMS: Several thousand . No. 19 1~996

MR . FLIGHT: One hundred thousand hectares have been sprayed. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR . FLIGHT: The point is that the member and th e Leader of the Opposi tion made a big deal, raised a great fuss because Newfoundland was spraying 6,000 hectares. If I had done what New Brunswick had done - MR . SIMMS : How about what your officials told you? MR . FLIGHT: Now that member, Mr . pro gr am . deals with Sp eaker, on the the hon. spray Now let rrH~ i1;1forrn thE! han. mE!rnbE•r about the silviculture agreement with Abitibi and with Kruger.

I lAJan l: to te11 l:ht::' member, yes, the agreements are in place, much to his sorrow. The silviculture program wi.ll go on and it tAJi.11 bE:~ enhanCE!d. It may be biqgE!In l:han last year. The companies arE· as happy as pigs in tnud. MR. SIMMS: Yes. MR. FLIGHT : Almost as happy as the would be if he was in suppose, almost as happy metrtl::)(~r tJJould be. member rnu d , I as thE· But anyway, Mr. Speaker, the papt:!r companies arE!. tota11y p}E!asE•d and Lhey cannot: belieVt:! l:hl" al:.rnospi·H:!tne of cooperation that exists with this government, because of this minister 1 s involvement with them.

The silviculture progr·am is going on. The documents have been signed and we will have a great L.997 June 23, 1989 VoJ. XU silviculture program with Kruger and Abitibi-Price tAli th a viet.l.l to providing the kind of forest management both companies want and need . Mr. Speaker, he might lAJant to remind me about what else it was he asked me about. MR. SIMMS : Forest rangers . MR. FLIGHT : Mr. Speak er, the forest ranger problem that he raiSE!d, I have had discussions with my offici.aJ.s and they have agreed, Mr.

SpeakE!r, tJJt?. do not know how severe it is, but the problem that he alluded to may lAJel1 be thE!Ine. It is an intetnna1 problern, as he knotJ..JS . It is not a problem tha l:. inuo1ves papet ·' companit:;!S, other than indirectly, and we are reviewing the situation and tJ..JO are going ·to gt: ! l: l:o Lhe bottom of it, and if there i.s any way to l:ake care oF l:he problem that he aJ.ludes to, it will be taken care of. NotJJ he tJJanLs to know, Mr.

Spt::'akc::r, about production at Woodda1e. lh0 rnet! :ber l~ur Ct";H1cl f<'ll.ls ·;, 't!J.J Wooddale, in his yeatns as a minister, as his OIA.Jn pr·ival:e empl oyment agency. SOME HON. MEMBERS: -~TE:·;; -·r: .. ~-...... E .. e·a-rT·-·--- .. ------ MR. FLIGHT: He had h-Ls otAJn pr·i.tJc'tl: .e etnp1oyrnt::!nl:. agency, albeit i.l lAJa s not in i·d s own distr·ict. He altttost tJJenl: as Far in WooddaJ.e as h~ did in Ca L,·\lnat'an Patnk, f\o1r. ~"3peak~:·r, i.n Windsor - Buchans, when he Look thirteen students out of Grand FaJJ.s and rnoVE!d thern tn l-.:o wotnk 'i.n C~ta111aran Park.

I l:. was no l:. tha l: b1al:anl:. in No. l. 9 r-\997

Wooddale, but almost as blatant . And I had to live with this, Mr. Speaker, after I became the member and became the minister. People would go down to Wooddale who wanted work and they would go down and say, 'Can I put an application in for a job in Wooddale this Summer?' And the people there would say, 'No . No . It is no good For you to come here, you have to go and see Mr.

Simms.' And they would look at them and say, Why should we have to go see the han. member for Grand Falls?' Be cause they have come to a point down there they knew that the hon. member for Grand Falls was the chief employment officer For Wooddale and the people that he named went in th ere and went to lAlOr' k. And I had to lab ou r under that, and I had to disp el that non s,?.nse that no mor E! would they be corning to the minister. No fnore! From now we haVE! fairn ess and balance. I understand that a few of the member's const ituents have gone to work recently in Wooddale . Fa irness and balance.

I und erstand l:hi s Sull !lll r?r thE!re are pe ople goi ng in and worki ng i n Wooddale from Grand Falls. We have applications there and the in sl:ru ct. ions arE· t.o m e~ke sure ·they arE! treat.r:!cl l:hr:• scHTl t:! as any ot.h E:·r · applicant. MR. SIMMS : You mean recall s. MR. FLIGHT: Recalls or whatever . WE!ll. any recalls ·have to be from Grand Falls because that is lht• rnosL that is there. MR. SIMMS: Let me speak now . MR. FLIGIH : L998 June 23, 1.989 Vo1 XLI Mr.

Speaker, I want the member to know that Wooddale is now operating as a tree nursery as it should, and they no longer have a member who act s · ·as th E!ir employment agent. From now on the employees will be treated wi th - MR. SIMMS: Fairness and balance . MR. FLIGHT: fairness and balance. And constituents, unlik e tho se of old Windsor - Buchans, SpeakE!r, who for sixt.E•en YE!a r's not have a monkey's chanCE! l:.o a job in Wooddale 01n a pa1 nk his po or Mr. d-:i .d (j I? C anything else, whi.le he IAJa s 0 I" a powerful minister . Yes, Min.

Sp t'akeln, sornethj _ng e1se ju st came into rny 1nind, and [wil l wind up on th is. Th e Hou c,o w:.LJ 1 know, Mr. Sp eaker. that: i.n 198 7 I resigned to crea te a by- elec ti on to havl:. my Lea der E•lec l:ed to the House of AsSE!rnbly, and JAJ~:· all FE! lt so proud. Mr . Sp,:!akE:'r, and so secure and so safe.

Within days l-.:hc:! han. the=.! fTIE:!I'I'Ii:cC:!I" For Cr'dnd Fa .lls ca1ne out <:Hld called a press conference in Grand Fa11s and announced that as of this day the Premier had asked him to take:! responsi.bi lity fc)Jn W"i.nd~;cH' Buchans, in [··.hr:• absence=.! of l .. he hon. rnernbE!r IAJho just rE:·siqned and who just so1d out, ancl a1.1. t.hE• unn:icEd:ic:"!s. MR. SIMMS : What did you t:hink IAJe IAJ.:•re go.inq to do? MR. FLIGH T: We all felt gr eat! Wind sor Buchans wil1 now be looked after and we were sure the new courthouse would be builL in Grand Falls. No . 1.9 R998

MR. SIMMS: Sure, that was already decided. MR. FLIGHT: Now, Mr. Speaker, never mJ.nd what was decided. There were lot of thJ.ngs decided six months ago that are not so today. There were a lot of decisions made three months ago that are not so today. MR. SIMMS: How silly! MR. FLIGHT : Mr. Speaker, I made a statement: to the fact that I was so pleased that pending the election, until we had out~ own mli:~lllber, we now had a man of the integrity and the strength and thE• courage and the clout of the han. the rnemb,:;qn for Grand Falls. Then, Mr.

Speaker, about fifteen months later I picked up The Advertiser onli:~ day. We had not seen hide nor hair of the member. The only time we heard of the member was when he was putting something else in Grand Falls that should have come to Windsor. MR. MURPHY : That is right . MR. FLIGHT: So we lived with the reality. fhen one day I picked up the paper, The Advertiser, and i·wrE! was the hon. the member For Grand Fal.ls criticizing me, and I tJJas not E!VE!n a ITJeinber oF the HOUSE! of Assembly. He was saying hotJJ Min. Wells, the member For Windsor Buchans, had announced publl.cly l:hat h1?.

IAJOuld 1nun in Hurnb,;!r Eas l:. And the minis tE!r, of courSE!, being the new mt?.dia hawk he is - by the way, he does not own The Grand Falls Aduertiser any more. If you find him in The Advertiser, he is on the~ third page. He does L999 June 23, 1989 Vol XLI not get the first page any more. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. FLIGHT: Anyway, he was all offended because the Premit::H' is now going to run in Hurnb E•in East, he so ld out the people of Windsor ·· Buchans, it was a political garne, it was like a hot potato, I quit and now he is quitting and a11 th :i.s.

Anyway, I had the privilege of going into Grand Fails and The Advertiser acceptE!d that I had a right to rE!Spond and I Jne spond E!d . One day I will get a copy and send it over to thE! ITIE!Jrlbel n. T'hE! riiOSl. hypocritical state11wnt: ever· rnc:HJe by a poJ.itician in this Provin ce was l:he statement ll'lad':~ by l:hE! hun. rriE!rnber, my good ft ~ien d , rny bos olfl buddy , the Jnrc~Jnber For Gt' ,::tr 1cl Falls. That is wha t I saJd in The Advertiser, and a 1 o t 1non • too, on thE! front pagE !.

And th~:· tirning lAJas perF, :-ct, be Ul US E! it came about. a rnon t:h o1n tlo~.Jo befo n :! the general election. Mr. Sp~"!akE!r , I aiTI look i.n<J l~o ;~l! .. k<r'd to only on<=.• rnot·'r:• l~.h i nq 'in rny poli l::ical ca;··r:·<:Or'. ~jc, i·lc'tV<~ cut :::1::.' Ca bin et fr orn twe nty -thr ee to fif teen, and there is a possibility, Mln. SpedkE!r ·· MR. SIMMS : No, no! NineteE:'n . MR. F l.IGH T: fh1: !

Ca bi n<:-l: . .I knet. 1.J V..Jhr!n [ 1 o~.Jas watching l:hE! abuse f"r·on1 <lVE!I" the re, was twenty-three. 11 <:• J~ t' is l:.h:'! lasi~ polil· :i.:-.'ll milestone I arn looki ng forw ard to . fhe Pr e1nie1n ha s :indical :ed cutting back, and he :i.s cutting back, and I h~ "!ar U11nough LrH:! g rape v i n E! he rrd g h t be ] o o ld n q at r e d u c i n g l: h e n u rn b e r o F d i s t r i c l:. s , No. 1.9 1~9 9 ')

in which case the obvious coming together is Grand Falls - Windsor. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. FLIGHT: After fourteen or fifteen years in politics, Mr. Speaker, if I arn going to go out, the way I would like to go out would be by being defeated by the han. the member for Grand Falls. Or if I am going to continue, Mr. Speaker, for another few years, the greatest satisfaction would be to walk into his office in Grand Falls on polling night and say, 'Do you need a job as executive assistant?' SOME HON. MEMBERS : Heal~, hE!ar! MR .,:. FLIGHT: Mr.

Speaker, if indeed the Pr1 :~lflier gets around to reducing the districts to forty-one or forty-two, then I would have to assume that Grand Falls - Windsor would be a logical choice. And that would be the crowning cap, Mr. Speaker, for myself and the hon. rnernber to go doo1n l:o door against each othe1n j_n Grand Fal1.~; -Windsor.

In the 1985 election I had a great rnotorcach! in Windsor the day pr'ior to pol1ing day, 200 or 300 cars. and tAJ(:' tAJere going around Windsor and the people we~e hanging out through their windows and there was their rnernber, and thE!Ine tAJas no qu,:•st.ion as l:o tAJhat the majot~ity was going to be. WE! came around a corner and here were two people, and the stJneE!t wa s red. One of the me111bers talb~d about thE! blue zone. We11, this tAJas the rE•d zone, in Windsor.

I said, 'Who is that?' And tAJould you bE!lieVE! it? rt. tAJas the hon. mPrnbE!r ·- a no l:her few hours in Windsor and hE• tAJou1d 1_1000 June 23, 1989 Vol XLI have lost that election. He carne within forty-one votes of losing it - and here he was, with my good friend the P. C. candidate, Min. McLennan, out knocking on doo1ns in Windsor - Coronation StreE!t I think it was. I stopped the parade - I tAJas in the lead car - called over my good friend, the ex-minister, soon to be the ex-member. and I told hJrn, 'Look, I am getting vtbes. I am getting the word that you are jn trouble in Gr'and Falls. l,.(:~n.

You should not bE:! out thE•inE!. Look at the street. The strG!E•t. is red. You need to do some more campaigning in Gr'and Falls.' Nah. he was going to tAd.n i l:. by a landslide. You know, all his good Tory Friends and alJ the pE!Opl,;:• he g a u e j o b s l:. o -.i n W o o cl d a l C' , a 01. 1 U: ''' low rentals he got for all his Friends, all l:he jobs he could pu ·l: u p i n C a t a rna r' a n fl a I" k • Ul E! y tAJ e J'· ,,. all going to vote For him. He lost the town of Grand FaJ Is. as l lost a town in Windsor district. AN HON. MEMBER : He never lost Grand Falls . MR.

WARI\E:N: Oh, yes, he lost Grand Falls . But he did nol:. bE!] -j E:•ve JfiE:•. Mt' ·. Speaker. W1=!l.l, hu b1:!l.i(•vud 1rte liAJO days latE!r whE!n M1~ . McLE·nnon tAJenL dotAJn to flarninq deFeat, 800 or 900 voi:E!S J.ost. By Uw way, the UE!I~y sti"C!el: you w• :•l"::' on Lulls t.h:::· one where he took the worsL Joss. rhat tAluS l:he po1l he J. 0 S l: lAJO I" S 0 . Lo and behold! :vir.

Speak,~r. wh;;;~n thr· bi'<J.1ots tAJE'I~c, cot.inf.:,::!cl Lh<. ':l night l:he hon. tTJeJnbuJ" IJ..Ji::'i'1 L. to bl :'d having lost the election and tAJok~;=! up the next morning hauin<J tAlon it, thanks to the good SE•ns~:• of' the students From Gr'and Fal1 s al:. Lhe Univ,:!rsi ty . No. 19 RlOOO

MR . SIMMS: You got yourself in trouble on that once before. MR . FLIGHT : I got out of it too, though, did I not? MR . SPEAKER: Ord er, please! The hon. member's time has elapsed. MR . FLIGHT: Mr . Speaker, I enjoyed that ten minutes . T hank you very much. MR. SPEAKER : The hon. th e Opposition House Leader. MR . SIMMS: Thank you, Mr. Sp eak er. I beli eve the hon . mombc?.r had mor e than tE!n rn.inute s, actually . But it do es not matter, because he said nothing in th~ ' tE!n rninutE!S that made any sense. NouJ, I had not intendc?.d to speak again in this debate.

I have a1J"c)ady spoken a couple oF times, and I did not want to get oFF track From debating the Resource Estimates Committees. However, once you aro lUJ"Hcl ,.,tncl once you are enticed, once you are encouraged, particularly after listening to the speech from somebody such as the Minisl:eJ" of Forestry. the rne1nbeJ" Windsor Buchans; you really have no choicE!, you are forced to respond. you are forced to get up and c ornrne n t. I havr:1 to say, firs t of aJ.J., that th e main thing that encouraged me to ge ·t up was that he spent hi s entire !:e n or fiF!: oen minul:e s peJ"sona11y attc:tcking rne .

That t.uas all he talk E!d about . He get. s up LlOOl June 23. 1.9B9 Vol XLI jumping with joy every time he can, any chance he get s to attack poor old me. You wouJ.d not know but I was on his back For th e last fifteen years or so . Then he spent at least three minute s talking about thE! coveragE! I gE!t in The Grand Falls Advertiser . Well, you t.alk about jealous! That is all you could eVE'l" call it, jealousy . MR . HEWLETT: Windsor might have been red. but the member is green. MR. SIMMS: The rnernbel" keeps calling lllE! 'minister'. I do not know why . MR. DOYLE : Because you look like a minister. MR.

DECKER: How long (inaudible) . MR . SIMMS: I am not got ng to res po ncl to l.. hE• Minister of Health becauSE! l·w is too arrogant . I am not. go:i nq to talk to him at all. Anyway. l:h1:' rnE•ltJbur for· W"Lnd:;;)J~ Buchans - I do noL wanl La bu thrown off tr·ack nOtAl, Mr. Sp~~ab~r - spent a good bit of time talking abo u t a 11 L he co v C' I" ''l q ~::> T q C! 1· L n The Grand Falls Advertiser fhat is all that has evc:'l~ beE!I1 on his mind. Since I got involved in politics, that is all that has ever been on his mind.

He used t.o call. 1ne behind the CUi"Lains, Mi", SpE!aker. and he lAJould say. 1 Boy, you are getting surne covur·aqc~ ·in The Advertiser. you own The Advertiser? Hcwe yol! 'JUl: '" sh,H'c~ in The Aduertiser. 1 And hr:1 says it has all changed now. He tal ked abou !: one s l:ory he (JO l: on the front page, one slol"Y, and !:hal:. is about: a11 he IAJil1 gc•l:, one No . 19 RJOOJ.

a year. He might get one a year. AN HON . MEMBER: He has been here fifteen years and got one story. MR. SIMMS: As a matter of fact, just look at the last issue of The Grand Falls Advertiser, just look at the last issue. MR. FLIGHT : Last night's editorial . MR. SIMMS: Neuer mind last night's editorial , the last issue. Not yesterday's, thE! last issue. If you look in that Advertiser you will see there is one tiny, little reference to the Minister of Fot~estry, and I s l:ill have three stories in there.

I mean, his own colleagues on l:.hat side of the House - the Minister of Social Services was kind enough to send me notification of community development project approval s in the District of l:xploit s. AN HON . MEMBER : What? MR. SIMMS : -· . Yes, Uw Minis te r of Social Services sent me notification of l:wo com mun it y developme nt p rojec ts in the District of Exp loits . So, w h a t d i d I d o t~li t h t h e 1n ? I imr11ediatEO:J.y put out a nE!WS rE!lease t.o announc e th':'rn , and that tJJas on e of the tht~(!e s toriE!S in The Ad verti ser t.h•?. ol:h1?. r day. Now I cannot hE•1p it. AN HON .

MEMBER: wl ]y did you not send them back? MR. SIMMS: In the budget you look through the Ll002 June 23 , 1.989 Vo 1 XLI Estimates in the budget there was $2. 1 million there for the Grand Falls Hospital expansion, but nobody on that side announced i.t. Nobody on that side even made reference to it. I looked it up, I saw it there in the Estirn atE !S , so I put out an announcetm:~nl: on it. The press said, 'How did you find out about that, Mr . Simms ? We did not hear any thing from thE! government?' I said, 'I looked in the Estimates .

It is Wlnitl: E!n there right in the Estimat es. ' So I cannot help it if I get coverage in The Grand Falls Advertiser . I say to the hon . rnemb er, The Advertiser is noted For publishing stat .ern,:• nts by pr::•opJr:=• who have something to say. MR. DOYLE : Right on! MR. SIMMS : And the onl y t.irne I haVE! I:!V•:H' br::!lc!l1 in theine is w h E:~n I have had something to sa y.

Now he made rE!fere nce to this litL J.e ele•ct:.ion campai gn in 1981">, or w ~wn•~VE:'r il: was, and hE! walked up to the Fa s l: end of Windsor ' and lle satAJ rne oul: d 0 0 In--t 0 -· d 0 0 In i n 9 liJ j t. h 0 U I~ C d n ci i ci d [.. •=:· <.'l.t:. the l: . .i111e, in an di"L'd Lhal L·.:; noted to be Liberal . I concede that, but I did what I could to help my colleague.

What th0 m E! 111 b '?. r d "i. d n o l: r· E! r: e r t o , o !-- course, tJJas that in l:hE> previous election , in 1 9 8 2 , I IAJi.'l s up :i. n L h '"' sarne end of Windso l", and in 198 2, the rnernber u..d .ll rE:~call, he t<:a.s dE!fea+:ed. MR. FLIGHT : But I won Windsor . MR. SIMMS : He won Wind so r, but he 1~1a s defe!ated . No w I tJ..Jonde r i·f the IIH:'f nber would J.ike to extend it even up to 1.989, No . 19 R100 2

this most recent election? WhE!re the hon. member won by 800 or 900 votes the last time, this time, I think , he wand by 120, or something like that. SOME HON . MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SIMMS : A ·fairly- good majority - MR. FLIGHT: A point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SIMMS: One hundred and seventy -four . MR. FLIGHT: Okay, fine . Mr. Speaker . No point of order, MR. SIMMS: Do not be wasting rny time. The point is, it was 800 or 900 votes last t1.mE!. I wonder if the member won the Town of Wind sor this timE!? MR . FLIGHT : Yes . MR. DOYLE : By how much? MR . FlIGHT : I had to hav e run an ad ver tis ement SOME HON .

MEMBERS : Ord er! MR. SIMMS : The han . minutes. rE! la x. member had his Do not get excited . MR. FLIGHT: tE! n Just (Inaudibl

e) in Windsor, th ere is one there today. MR. SIMMS : L1003 June 23, 1989 Vol XLI If the member checks, I think he v..Jill find he did not tA.Jin the Town of Windsor in this election. And I was out and did some door -to-dearing with my coJ.leagUE!. the candidate there in Windsor, this time as well. But I tA.Ji11 t:E!J.]. you, Mt ~ .

Speaket", if it is the intention of the government, if it is thE:1 intr:!ntion of the Premier, as the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture has just. announced here in the House, to eliminate Grand Falls district electorally and join it v..d.l:h Windsor to make one district of Grand Falls ·- Windsor - 8uchans, if I were thinking at al l about polil:tcal retirement at the E!nd of thts tE!rrrt, if I t1 . .Je re giu inq it any considE!rat .ion at a1l, i.F l:.h'"Y tAJ<: ;t~e to rnai<E! that kind of a c han~)(' 1 l:hink I would be atJJFIJ] ly l:etnp 1:.1::-cl to forget it if I