British Columbia Hansard — Thursday, February 19, 2009

H0219pm-06

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session, 38th Parliament o FFicial rePort o F Debates of the Legis Lative a ssemb Ly (hansarD) the honourable bill bari So FF, SPeaker iSSn 0709-1281 Thursday, February 19, 2009 Afternoon Sitting Volume 38, Number 6

Pro Vince o F britiS h colu Mbia (entered c onfederation July 20, 1871) lieutenant -Go Vernor h is h onour the h onourable Steven l. Point, obc Fifth Session, 38th Parliament SPeaker o F the leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y h onourable bill barisoff eXecutiVe council Premier and President of the executive c ouncil ......................................................................................................h on. Gordon c ampbell Minister of State for intergovernmental r elations .......................................................................................................... h on.

Joan Mcintyre Deputy Premier and Minister of education and Minister r esponsible for early l earning and l iteracy .........................................................................................h on. Shirley bond Minister of a boriginal r elations and r econciliation .................................................................................................. h on. Michael de Jong Minister of a dvanced e ducation and l abour Market Development ............................................................................. h on.

Murray c oell Minister of a griculture and l ands ..................................................................................................................................... h on. r on c antelon a ttorney General and Minister r esponsible for Multiculturalism .......................................................................... h on.

Wally o ppal, Qc Minister of c hildren and Family Development ..........................................................................................................h on. t om c hristensen Minister of State for c hildcare ................................................................................................................................................. h on. l inda r eid Minister of c ommunity Development ............................................................................................................................. h on. k evin k rueger Minister of energy, Mines and Petroleum r esources .....................................................................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Minister of State for Mining ................................................................................................................................................ h on.

Gordon h ogg Minister of environment and Minister r esponsible for c limate a ction .......................................................................h on. barry Penner Minister of Finance and Minister r esponsible for the o lympics .................................................................................. h on. c olin h ansen Minister of Forests and r ange ....................................................................................................................................................... h on.

Pat bell Minister of h ealth Services ................................................................................................................................................h on. George a bbott Minister of h ealthy l iving and Sport .....................................................................................................................................h on.

Mary Polak Minister of h ousing and Social Development .................................................................................................................h on. r ich c oleman Minister of l abour and citizens' Services ................................................................................................................................ h on. iain black Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General .........................................................................................................h on.

John van Dongen Minister of Small business, t echnology and e conomic Development and Minister r esponsible for the a sia-Pacific initiative .................................................................................................. h on. ida c hong Minister of t ourism, c ulture and the a rts ...........................................................................................................................h on. bill bennett Minister of t ransportation and infrastructure ...................................................................................................................h on. k evin Falcon leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y l eader of the official o pposition ...................................................................................................................................................c arole James Deputy Speaker ..............................................................................................................................................................................Sindi h awkins Deputy Speaker .....................................................................................................................................................................k atherine Whittred a ssistant Deputy Speaker ...............................................................................................................................................................Sue h ammell Deputy c hair, c ommittee of the Whole .......................................................................................................................................... h arry bloy c lerk of the l egislative a ssembly...................................................................................................................e.

George MacMinn, obc, Q c c lerk a ssistant ..................................................................................................................................................................................r obert Vaive c lerk a ssistant and l aw c lerk................................................................................................................................................. ian D. izard, Qc c lerk a ssistant and c lerk of c ommittees ................................................................................................................................. craig h.

James c lerk a ssistant and c ommittee c lerk .................................................................................................................................... k ate r yan-l loyd Sergeant-at-a rms .................................................................................................................................................................................

Gary l enz Director, h ansard Services ............................................................................................................................................................Jo-a nne k ern l egislative l ibrarian ............................................................................................................................................................................ Jane t aylor l egislative c omptroller .......................................................................................................................................................................

Dan a rbic

alP habetical liS t o F MeMberS a bbott, h on. George (l) ........................................................................ Shuswap a ustin, r obin (nDP) ................................................................................ Skeena bains, h arry (nDP) ....................................................................Surrey-n ewton barisoff, h on. bill (l) ............................................Penticton–o kanagan Valley bell, h on.

Pat (l) ...............................................................Prince George n orth bennett, h on. bill (l) ...................................................................e ast k ootenay black, h on. iain (l) ......................................................Port Moody–Westwood bloy, h arry (l) ....................................................................................burquitlam bond, h on. Shirley (l) ....................................Prince George–Mount r obson brar, Jagrup (nDP) .....................................................Surrey–Panorama r idge c ampbell, h on.

Gordon (l) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey c antelon, h on. r on (l) ......................................................n anaimo-Parksville c hong, h on. ida (l) ..................................................... o ak bay–Gordon h ead c houhan, r aj (nDP) ........................................................... burnaby-e dmonds c hristensen, h on. t om (l) ..................................................o kanagan-Vernon c hudnovsky, Dave (nDP) ........................................... Vancouver-kensington c oell, h on.

Murray (l) ....................................Saanich n orth and the islands c oleman, h on. r ich (l) ........................................... Fort l angley–a ldergrove c onroy, katrine (nDP) ...........................................West kootenay–b oundary c oons, Gary (nDP) .........................................................................n orth c oast c ubberley, David (nDP) ..............................................................Saanich South de Jong, h on.

Michael (l) ................................... a bbotsford–Mount l ehman Dix, a drian (nDP) ............................................................Vancouver-kingsway e vans, c orky (nDP) ..................................................................n elson-creston Falcon, h on. k evin (l) ..........................................................Surrey-c loverdale Farnworth, Mike (nDP) ............................. Port c oquitlam–b urke Mountain Fleming, r ob (nDP) ................................................................

Victoria-h illside Fraser, Scott (nDP) ...............................................................a lberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (nDP) .........................................................................Delta n orth h ammell, Sue (nDP) .................................................... Surrey–Green t imbers h ansen, h on. c olin (l) .................................................. Vancouver-Quilchena h awes, r andy (l) ............................................................

Maple r idge–Mission h awkins, Sindi (l) ..................................................................k elowna-Mission h ayer, Dave S. (l) .................................................................... Surrey-t ynehead h erbert, Spencer (nDP) ..................................................... Vancouver-burrard h ogg, h on. Gordon (l) ......................................................

Surrey–White r ock h organ, John (nDP) .......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca h orning, a l (l) .............................................................k elowna–l ake c ountry ilich, o lga (l) ..........................................................................r ichmond c entre James, c arole (nDP) .........................................................Victoria–b eacon h ill Jarvis, Daniel (l) .................................................... n orth Vancouver–Seymour k aragianis, Maurine (nDP) ............................................e squimalt-Metchosin k rog, l eonard (nDP) ........................................................................... n anaimo k rueger, h on. k evin (l) .....................................k amloops–n orth Thompson kwan, Jenny Wai ching (nDP) ...........................

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant l ali, h arry (nDP) ........................................................................... Y ale-lillooet l ee, r ichard t . (l) .......................................................................burnaby n orth l ekstrom, h on. blair (l) ....................................................... Peace r iver South l es, John (l) ............................................................................c hilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, n orm (nDP) ....................................c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke McGinn, Jenn (nDP) .........................................................

Vancouver-Fairview Mcintyre, h on. Joan (l) ........................................ West Vancouver–Garibaldi Mack ay, Dennis (l) .......................................................bulkley Valley–Stikine n uraney, John (l) .............................................................. burnaby-Willingdon o ppal, h on. Wally, Qc (l) ........................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, hon. barry (l) .............................................................c hilliwack-k ent Polak, h on.

Mary (l) ...............................................................................l angley Puchmayr, c huck (nDP) .......................................................n ew Westminster r alston, bruce (nDP) ................................................................

Surrey-Whalley r eid, h on. l inda (l) ...................................................................r ichmond e ast r ichmond, c laude (l) .........................................................................k amloops r oddick, Valerie (l) ..........................................................................Delta South r outley, Doug (nDP) ......................................................c owichan-l adysmith r ustad, John (l) .......................................................... Prince George–omineca Sather, Michael (nDP) .........................................

Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows Simons, n icholas (nDP) ................................... Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast Simpson, bob (nDP) ...................................................................c ariboo n orth Simpson, Shane (nDP) .....................................................Vancouver-hastings Sultan, r alph (l) .....................................................

West Vancouver–capilano Thorne, Diane (nDP) .................................................c oquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, r ick (l) .................................................................. o kanagan-Westside t revena, c laire (nDP) .................................................................... n orth island van Dongen, h on.

John (l) ............................................a bbotsford-c layburn Whittred, k atherine (l) ........................................ n orth Vancouver–l onsdale Wyse, c harlie (nDP) ...................................................................c ariboo South Y ap, John (l) .......................................................................r ichmond-Steveston Vacant .............................................................................................. c omox Valley Vacant .......................................................................................Peace r iver n orth Vacant ....................................................................................

Vancouver-l angara liS t o F MeMberS bY riD in G a bbotsford-c layburn .................................................... h on. John van Dongen a bbotsford–Mount l ehman ...........................................h on. Michael de Jong a lberni-Qualicum .............................................................................

Scott Fraser bulkley Valley–Stikine ...............................................................Dennis Mack ay burnaby n orth .............................................................................. r ichard t . l ee burnaby-e dmonds ......................................................................... r aj c houhan burnaby-Willingdon .....................................................................

John n uraney burquitlam .......................................................................................... h arry bloy c ariboo n orth ................................................................................ bob Simpson c ariboo South................................................................................. c harlie Wyse c hilliwack-k ent.....................................................................h on. barry Penner c hilliwack-Sumas ..................................................................................

John l es c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke .................................................. n orm Macdonald c omox Valley..............................................................................................Vacant c oquitlam-Maillardville............................................................... Diane Thorne c owichan-l adysmith ...................................................................

Doug r outley Delta n orth ......................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ..................................................................................Valerie r oddick e ast k ootenay .......................................................................... h on. bill bennett e squimalt-Metchosin .........................................................Maurine k aragianis Fort l angley–a ldergrove ...................................................h on. r ich c oleman k amloops ................................................................................c laude r ichmond k amloops–n orth Thompson ............................................ h on. k evin k rueger k elowna–l ake c ountry ................................................................... a l h orning k elowna-Mission .........................................................................Sindi h awkins l angley.......................................................................................h on.

Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca ....................................................................John h organ Maple r idge–Mission ....................................................................r andy h awes Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows ........................................................Michael Sather n anaimo ......................................................................................... l eonard k rog n anaimo-Parksville .............................................................h on. r on c antelon n elson-creston ................................................................................ c orky evans n ew Westminster .................................................................... c huck Puchmayr n orth c oast.......................................................................................

Gary c oons n orth island .................................................................................. c laire t revena n orth Vancouver–l onsdale ............................................... k atherine Whittred n orth Vancouver–Seymour ...........................................................

Daniel Jarvis o ak bay–Gordon h ead ............................................................ h on. ida c hong o kanagan-Vernon ..........................................................h on. t om c hristensen o kanagan-Westside .........................................................................r ick Thorpe Peace r iver n orth ......................................................................................Vacant Peace r iver South ...............................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Penticton–o kanagan Valley................................................... h on. bill barisoff Port c oquitlam–b urke Mountain ...........................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood .............................................................h on. iain black Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast ................................................. n icholas Simons Prince George n orth .......................................................................h on.

Pat bell Prince George–Mount r obson ............................................h on. Shirley bond Prince George–omineca ................................................................. John r ustad r ichmond c entre ................................................................................. o lga ilich r ichmond e ast ..........................................................................h on. l inda r eid r ichmond-Steveston ..............................................................................John Y ap Saanich n orth and the islands ........................................... h on.

Murray c oell Saanich South ........................................................................... David c ubberley Shuswap ...............................................................................h on.

George a bbott Skeena .............................................................................................. r obin a ustin Surrey-c loverdale .................................................................h on. k evin Falcon Surrey–Green t imbers ..................................................................Sue h ammell Surrey-n ewton ................................................................................. h arry b ains Surrey–Panorama r idge ...................................................................Jagrup brar Surrey-t ynehead ...........................................................................

Dave S. h ayer Surrey-Whalley.............................................................................. bruce r alston Surrey–White r ock ............................................................. h on. Gordon h ogg Vancouver-burrard ....................................................................Spencer h erbert Vancouver-Fairview .......................................................................Jenn McGinn Vancouver-Fraserview ...................................................h on.

Wally o ppal, Qc Vancouver-hastings ....................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-kensington ........................................................David c hudnovsky Vancouver-kingsway..........................................................................a drian Dix Vancouver-l angara ....................................................................................Vacant Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ......................................... Jenny Wai ching kwan Vancouver–Point Grey .................................................h on.

Gordon c ampbell Vancouver-Quilchena ..........................................................h on. c olin h ansen Victoria–b eacon h ill .......................................................................c arole James Victoria-h illside ..............................................................................r ob Fleming West kootenay–b oundary ........................................................ k atrine c onroy West Vancouver–capilano ............................................................. r alph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ................................................h on.

Joan Mcintyre Y ale-lillooet ......................................................................................... h arry l ali Party Standings: l iberal 42; n ew Democratic 34; Vacant 3

CONTENTS Thursday, February 19, 2009 a fternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page introductions by Members ................................................................................................................................................... 13827 t ributes ................................................................................................................................................................................... 13827 Jim Wakely r . h awes introductions by Members ................................................................................................................................................... 13827 Statements (Standing order 25 b) ........................................................................................................................................ 13827 italian c anadian club in t rail k. c onroy a dvocacy for disabled persons c. r ichmond black h istory Month r . c houhan Guide-Scout Week h. b loy Soroptimist international of the t ri-cities D.

Thorne barack o bama J. n uraney oral Questions ....................................................................................................................................................................... 13829 budget provisions for public safety c. James h on. W . oppal l. k rog S. Simpson Gang activity in b.c. b. r alston h on. W . oppal budget provisions for public safety M. Farnworth h on. W . oppal r egional police services M. Farnworth h on. M. de Jong Protection of Parksville watershed S. Fraser h on. r . c antelon budget provisions for rural b.c. r . a ustin h on. c. h ansen n.

Macdonald Petitions .................................................................................................................................................................................. 13834 h on. S. bond

c ommittee of Supply ............................................................................................................................................................ 13834 Supplementary estimates: Ministry of c ommunity Development (continued) n. Macdonald h on. k. k rueger c. Wys e G. Gentner M. Sather h on. c. h ansen c. t revena D. r outley J. kwan

13827 thurSD a Y , Februar Y 19, 2009 The h ouse met at 1:34 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Introductions by Members Hon. T. Christensen: The Ministry of c hildren and Family Development's student employment program provides employment opportunities for students to gain work experience in various careers within the ministry. o ver 80 students have participated in this program over the past two years in all parts of british c olumbia. [1335] t oday we're joined by three current participants in the program. They are Stephanie Patterson, l indsay Fichaud and n aomi n orth.

Joining them is Michelle Perren, who's a strategic human resource planner and administrator of the program. i hope the h ouse will join me in welcoming these students and their escort here today. C. James: i know it's unusual to recognize members during introductions, but on all our behalf, i'd like to welcome the member for n ew Westminster back to the h ouse. [a pplause.] C. Richmond: i have a special introduction today. My wife Pat is in the gallery to observe the proceedings in the h ouse, probably for the last time.

Y esterday was her birthday, so i spared no expense and took her to dinner at Government h ouse. i know that i speak for all mem- bers when i say it was a delightful evening. Thank you, Mr. lieutenant-Governor. it was wonderful. Pat has supported me in my various endeavours for many, many years. in fact, on the 28th day of this month, it will be 51 years. Will the h ouse please make her welcome. S. Simpson: i'm pleased today to introduce some- body who is a good friend of many of us on this side of the h ouse. Gordie l arkin is here with us today.

Gordie has recently retired after many, many years working for the c anadian l abour c ongress and working for work- ing people across this country. i'd ask that the h ouse make Gordie welcome. Tributes JiM Wakel Y R. Hawes: on February 13, Jim Wakely, the inspector in charge of the Maple r idge detachment, passed away from colorectal cancer. l ast July he took leave to deal with his illness and succumbed to it this month.

Jim was a great detachment commander, particularly working in the area of drug addiction and homelessness. h e was a tireless promoter of things in Maple r idge and well respected within the force. h e served 34 years with the rcMP . c ould the h ouse please — through you, Mr. Speaker — send something on our behalf to his family and three children to remember his passing. Introductions by Members Hon. B. Lekstrom: Joining us today in the h ouse is a longtime friend of mine, Mr. bill Vanderland, the president of enerGreen Power. Will the h ouse please make him feel welcome. G.

Coons: it's always an honour to welcome students into the h ouse. t oday we have 80 students and teachers from Sir c harles t upper Secondary School to watch the proceedings. Please make them welcome. Hon. J. McIntyre: This morning i got a very excited call from Paul l alli, a councillor in Squamish who wanted to announce and make sure that everybody in the l egislature knew that his daughters Justine and Jaya were just blessed with a baby brother named r oshan Singh l alli. i just wanted the h ouse to congratulate him. Hon. I.

Black: Perhaps it was the excitement of the moment and the enjoyment i've had in the last two days having my son here, but i forgot to mention his name when i introduced him in here yesterday. h e's with us again today. Thomas is here. Welcome, my son. it's great having you with us. Statements (Standing Order 25b) italian canaD ian club in trail K. Conroy: l ast Saturday, February 14, my husband e d and i had the pleasure of attending the 75th anniver- sary celebration of the italo-c anadese club.

This society was formed in 1934 to help italian immigrants who had moved to t rail to make the transition to a new world. [1340] a s well as friendship and social opportunities, the italo-c anadese also provided financial aid whenever a member faced a hardship like illness or death in the family. There were no medical benefits or government supports in those days, so if you got sick or unemployed, the society was there for you. The objective today is to continue their heritage and promote italian culture by hosting their fabulous italian dinners and baking and continuing to use the italian language at meetings.

The members also fundraise to

british c olumbia Debates13828 t hursday, February 19, 2009 maintain their hall but also contribute to many worth- while projects and groups in the area. a s part of the celebration on Saturday night, longtime member bruna benedad was also recognized. bruna came to t rail in 1929 as a young girl and couldn't speak any english. h er father gave her incentive to learn the language with ten cents for every new word she learned. She said she learned quickly. bruna, at 93 years, is the oldest original member and was honoured for her many years of service.

She remembers in those early years the dinners they pre- pared taking days, as cooking chicken meant having to buy and pluck them before you could even start to prepare them. bruna told me stories of people in the room who are now in their 50s and 60s, remembering their parents and the children themselves and some of the mischief they got up to as young kids. i watched a gentleman in his 60s squirm as she reminisced about his childhood antics in church and the big bag of cookies his mother always brought to keep him quiet. t rail is well known for its italian heritage and incred- ible food, but i think it's the people who make it special — people like bruna and the club president, t ony Gioretti, who continue to give back to a community and a culture they love.

For that, i thank them. aDV ocacY For DiSableD P erSonS C. Richmond: t oday it's my pleasure to congratulate two groups of people who work diligently on behalf of all of us for those with disabilities. They are the Measuring u p committees and the 10 by 10 c hallenge teams. Measuring u p is being headed by 2010 l egacies n ow and focuses on accessibility for persons with disabilities. it is a necessary step to inclusion. Without accessibility, there can be no inclusion.

Through many dedicated committees throughout the province, Measuring u p has done incredible work to make sure that b.c. becomes the most accessible jurisdiction anywhere. n ow for the inclusion part of the equation. a couple of years ago at ubcM we challenged communities to accept our 10 by 10 challenge to increase the number of disabled people hired by 10 percent by 2010. The challenge was taken up enthusiastically by many com- munities, both large and small. e ach community was told what their number was to reach the 10 percent mark.

Several have reached and exceeded their target number and have placed over 200 disabled people in jobs. There are over 300,000 people with disabilities out there who are qualified, ready and willing to work. a ll we have to do is reach out to them. a s one disabled person put it to me: "We don't want you to see a disabled person when you look at us. We want you to see a person. We want to be contributing members of society. We want to work, and we want to pay taxes. it's not too late to get on board and hire the disabled.

Y ou will have the most loyal, hard-working employees you could ever imagine." black hi Stor Y Month R. Chouhan: February is black h istory Month. People all over are celebrating the history of a frican a mericans. a lthough the blacks have been in a merica for centuries, it was not until the 20th century that they started getting some recognition in the history books. For hundreds of years the blacks in a merica were nothing but mere slaves. u ntil the 20th century their sacrifices and achievements were largely ignored. They faced every imaginable barrier to get a good education.

Dr. c arter Woodson was the second a frican a merican to earn a h arvard doctorate, in 1912. Dr. Woodson was the founder of the study of n egro life and history. in 1926 he promoted n egro h istory Week, during the second week of February, to celebrate the birthdays of Frederick Douglass and a braham l incoln.

This continued until 1960, when it became black h istory Month. n ow that barack o bama has become the President of the u nited States of a merica, some people are asking that the observance of black h istory Month should be stopped. n o doubt, some people are unhappy to see a black President in the White h ouse.

They will go to any length to find an excuse to deny the black people their rights. in 1963 Martin l uther k ing said: "nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." [1345] black h istory Month is still relevant because there is still a need to educate ourselves on the outstand- ing intellectual and artistic contributions that a frican a mericans have made. o bserving black h istory Month is an important tool to make people aware of our past and to build a better future for all. a s Martin l uther k ing said on a ugust 28, 1963: "i have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed, 'We hold these truths to be self-evident — that all men and women are created equally.'" Gui De -Scout Week H.

Bloy: h on. Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to once again wear my scout uniform into the house. i would like to take this opportunity to recognize Scout-Guide Week, which is now taking place from February 15 to 22. Scouting began in 1907, when l ord r obert baden-Powell took a group of youth to a camp in the wilderness. in 1910 b-P , as he is known in scouting and guiding, wrote to the Governor General of c anada of the day asking them to start a scouting group in c anada. Since that time, every Governor General has been c hief

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, February 19, 2009 13829 Scout of c anada. The current Governor General and chief scout is h er e xcellency Michaëlle Jean. This week is a celebration for Scouts c anada and Girl Guides of c anada, when both organizations come together in the spirit of friendship to honour their shared heritage. it is also an opportunity for the public to recog- nize the limitless potential of c anadian youth and the work that scouting-guiding does to help build a better world for our nation's future leaders.

Scouting-guiding instils the values of leadership, honour and teamwork through the many exciting outdoor programs it provides to over 75,000 boys and girls and youth. These programs are developed and maintained by over 6,000 energetic and dedicated volunteers in british c olumbia who selflessly give of their time and deserve the praise and our thanks for the work that they do.

My wife a nita and i are still involved in scouting and guid- ing, and we just appreciate the opportunity that we have to work with youth. i'd ask all members of this h ouse to join me in wishing Scouts c anada and Girl Guides of c anada continued success. Soro Pti MiSt international o F the tri-citieS D. Thorne: t oday i am pleased to rise to pay tribute to the Soroptimist international of the t ri-cities, a volun- teer service club that makes a difference for women and girls. Soroptimists are business owners, nurses, realtors, instructors, office workers, and more.

They are women who volunteer their time and resources to improve the status and rights of females throughout the world. There are over 95,000 soroptimists in 120 countries. The t ri-cities

chapter carries out a busy

schedule of activities. a special emphasis is on the monthly social and educational evenings for homeless and other women in need. Soroptimist members also provide financial help to women who wish to return to school, and the club funds scholarships and bursaries for teen girls who volunteer in their communities. a s well, t ri-cities soroptimists have made more than 1,700 comfort cushions for women recovering from mastectomies. They have bundled care units of necessi- ties to inner-city school children.

They have advocated an end to domestic violence with the annual Paint the t own Purple campaign, and they have participated in many international projects to help the world's poor, who are so often women and children. o n Sunday, February 22, i will join the soroptimists as they host their ninth annual recognition awards luncheon, which will honour women and girls who have made a difference in our community in the t ri- cities.

So 2009 is the club's tenth anniversary. i know that members of this h ouse will want to join me in congratu- lating the soroptimists of the t ri-cities for their decade of outstanding service to c oquitlam, Port c oquitlam and Port Moody. barack obaMa J.

Nuraney: With reference to the statement that my colleague from burnaby-e dmonds made, i would like to simply say this. t oday Martin l uther k ing's dream has come to pass. [1350] t oday President o bama is making his first foreign trip since taking office with a visit to c anada. h is arrival was greeted with a lot of excitement, and this visit will be viewed as a big step forward in the relations between our two great nations. i feel a special attachment to President o bama, as we both have ties with k enya. i have friends who knew his father. a s the first a frican a merican President, he has become a beacon of hope for all those who aspire to a better life.

With his background and his values well rooted in the ethics and beliefs of equality, fairness, freedom and commitment to close cooperation with the allies, he will bring hope in addressing some very dif- ficult problems around the world. h is visit to c anada will give him a glimpse of what we hold dear to our hearts, which is the sense of col- laboration and cooperation in matters important to us, like free trade, the environment and peaceful solutions to political problems around the world.

Many look to him for leadership that is needed in today's economic crisis and the problems facing the world in conflicts among nations, terrorism and eradicating poverty in the developing countries. i am confident that President o bama will resist polit- ical pressures in a merica to make our borders less open so that we are not faced with restricted trade. it is in that spirit of friendship that i ask the h ouse to join me in offering a special welcome to President o bama. Oral Questions buDGet Pro ViSionS For Public SaFet Y C. James: o n February 12 the a ttorney General signed off on a service plan.

This "service plan was prepared under my direction…. i am accountable for the basis" of this plan. Those are his words over his signature. That ser- vice plan, as we know, imposes cuts to crime and safety. So my question is to the a ttorney General. Will he explain why last week he signed off on deep cuts to courts and prosecutors in the middle of a gang war? Hon. W . Oppal: We are, in fact, increasing the number of crown prosecutors that are dedicated to and addressing the issue of gang violence. a s we announced on Friday, we are adding ten new crown prosecutors

british c olumbia Debates13830 t hursday, February 19, 2009 — experienced crown prosecutors — to the 16 prosecu- tors that are already there to fight gang violence. This is on top of the 49 prosecutors we have that are there to address the causes of organized crime. Mr. Speaker: l eader of the o pposition has a supplemental. C. James: The public are concerned. a ll british c olumbians are concerned. They want to see action from this government. The a ttorney General did not answer the question. There are deep cuts in the budget that he signed off on.

So my question again to the a ttorney General: in the middle of a gang war, in the middle of a crisis for the public in british c olumbia, why did he sign off on a plan that has cuts to crime and prosecutors? Hon. W . Oppal: The public and this h ouse should know that we are committed to prosecuting all serious criminal cases. We will not resile from that commitment. Mr. Speaker: l eader of the o pposition has a further supplemental. [1355] C.

James: Perhaps it's news for the a ttorney General, but when you cut programs and services, you don't provide as much service to fight crime on behalf of the public of british c olumbia. Y esterday the a ttorney General told the public that the budget was prepared under his direction. h is signature is there on that budget. So my question again — very straightforward, very simple — to the a ttorney General: does he believe his budget or not? Why would he sign off on cuts to fighting crime? interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Hon. W .

Oppal: i've been in the criminal justice system for over 35 years, and i have never seen a pros- ecution fail during that time due to a lack of resources. i have never seen a prosecution not proceed due to a lack of resources. The criminal justice branch is made up of professional people who prosecute cases in this province on a daily basis, and they don't compromise their principle for commitment. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. L.

Krog: Maybe the a ttorney General doesn't appreci- ate it, but everyone else understands that when you look at the documents, the fact is that the government has cut the crime and safety budget. There's no way to weasel around that. it's there in black and white. it's printed by the government of british c olumbia. So if you compare last year's service plan to this year's, here's what you find.

The a ttorney General increases the budget every year for ministry headquarters — every year. a nd every year he cuts courts and prosecutors. it's pretty simple — more executives, fewer people to put the gangs in jail. a gain to the a ttorney General. it's a very simple ques- tion. it's easy to answer. c an he explain why he approved and signed off on a budget that cuts prosecutors and budgets increases for executives? Hon. W . Oppal: We are not cutting prosecutors. We're putting more prosecutors in the courts. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, a ttorney. Hon. W .

Oppal: Y ou know, we now have 49 pros- ecutors who are committed to addressing the causes of organized crime. We have 26 prosecutors who are now involved in gang violence. During the '90s the nDP had one prosecutor doing that. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Member has a supplemental. L. Krog: Well, i guess we're going to see a first in the l egislature today. The a ttorney General, back on February 6, said: "i've never deflected criticism in my life. if i've done something wrong, if we've screwed up in my ministry, i'm the first to admit it." i give the a ttorney General an opportunity today.

The numbers are very clear. it's laid out in a three-year budget. h e signed it. h e's a former lawyer. h e's a former judge of the c ourt of a ppeal. it's very straightforward. The budget cuts prosecution services; it increases the executive budget. a gain to the a ttorney General: why did he sign it if he didn't believe it was true? Hon. W . Oppal: one thing some members of the opposition need to do is think beyond the numbers. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Just take your seat. [1400]

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, February 19, 2009 13831 interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. a ttorney. Hon. W . Oppal: Since we became government, we have embarked on creative, innovative procedures…. interjections. Hon. W . Oppal: Well, i'm sure the members opposite have never heard of a community court. it's too creative for their minds. interjections. Mr. Speaker: a ttorney, just sit down for a second. Members, we're not going to…. Members. We're not going to continue until we can hear. c ontinue, a ttorney. Hon. W .

Oppal: because of the proactive, creative methods that we've used in fighting crime, such as the community court, which deals with some of the root causes of crime, in fact we're getting fewer people going through the system. For instance, because of our significant resources to fight crime, the theft of motor vehicles has decreased by 24 percent. break and enters are down by 22 percent. Possession of stolen property has decreased by 13 percent. S.

Simpson: on February 12 the a ttorney General signs his name to a service plan, a plan that cuts the budget for crime and safety. it's his credibility that's on the line here. The Premier announces the next day that he's going to fight gangs. it's a sham. e verybody in this province knows it. l et's be clear.

This isn't just this side talking. i'd refer to comments from Steve Fudge, the president of the b.c. crown c ounsel a ssociation who, on the 18th of February, said: "We run a pretty tight ship, and i just don't see how we can lose 100 bodies and still function at the level we're trying to function at today." My question to the minister is this. h e knows that he either sat on his hands when the Premier and the Finance Minister were slashing that budget and did nothing, or he failed in convincing them to really fight crime. Which was it? Hon. W . Oppal: Y ou know, there are many ways of fighting crime.

There are many ways of addressing the causes of violent crime and property crime, and we're involving ourselves in that. a s i mentioned a moment ago, the community court is one of those. The prolific offender management program is another way that we're fighting crime. a ll of those measures are resulting in a reduction of crime, and that's what we're committed to doing. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. S. Simpson: Well, i guess the other option here may be referred to in the comments of the a ttorney General yesterday, where he was quoted as saying….

When asked about these cuts, he said: "That's for years 2 and 3 of the budget cycle, and anything could happen between now and then." So we have the a ttorney General saying: "Don't believe years two and three of this. They're not credible." My question is to the Finance Minister. c ould the Finance Minister tell us, since your a ttorney General doesn't believe your budget, why should anybody in british c olumbia believe this is a serious budget? Hon. W . Oppal: Y ou know, there are many measures and many policies and many initiatives that will reduce crime. The number of prosecutors in the courtrooms is one.

The police investigations is another. We have put 950 new police officers on the street since 2001 — 168 new police around the streets. [1405] o ur crown prosecutors are working with the police. That's being done for the first time where the crown and the police work together. Those measures have been suc- cessful in the past, and i'm sure they'll continue to be in the future. Gan G actiVit Y in b.c. B. Ralston: Mr.

Plecas, a noted criminologist who teaches at the u niversity of the Fraser Valley, has said that the number of gangs in british c olumbia has grown from ten at the beginning of this century to over a hun- dred now. a ccording to the new l iberal principle that's just been enunciated in this l egislature on budgeting, on thinking beyond the numbers, is that a number that the minister chooses to brush aside as well? Hon. W . Oppal: i don't really understand the rel- evance of that question, but i'll do my best. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, a ttorney. Hon. W .

Oppal: Y es, the number of gangs has grown. n o question about that. but we're in a position to address that cause. We're working with the police in order to determine what we can do about it and to prosecute those people who are violating our laws, those people who are making life difficult in our streets today — the homicides that are taking place on an almost daily basis.

british c olumbia Debates13832 t hursday, February 19, 2009 These cycles of violence take place from time to time, and we want to address those causes of crime. W e want to make sure that those people who are committing the crimes are charged by the police and prosecuted by our prosecutors. buDGet Pro ViSionS For Public SaFet Y M. Farnworth: Well, the a ttorney General has stood here in this question period and completely missed the point. An Hon. Member: i don't think so. M. Farnworth: he most certainly has missed the point.

The number one issue right now for public safety is gang violence in this province, and yet he signed off on a budget that cuts resources to prosecutors, prosecutorial services in this province. h e's supposed to uphold the law in this province. Why would he sign off on a budget that cuts services? Hon. W . Oppal: Y ou know, the real issue here right now as far as fighting gang violence is concerned is fairly obvious, and that is that nobody is helping the police. The police go to a crime scene, and they're not getting any help from the public.

The prosecutors are there. o ur prosecutors are there willing and able to prosecute cases, but the fact is that we're not getting any help from the public and we need that. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. M. Farnworth: The thing is that the public is not getting any help from this government in this budget. but the problem is not just with the a ttorney General. it's with the rest of this government, in particular the Solicitor General and the Premier. An Hon. Member: l et's have an election. M. Farnworth: i'd love to see an election, hon. Member, because i know exactly…. interjections. Mr.

Speaker: Members. Just take your seat for a second. Members. c ontinue. reGional Police Ser ViceS M. Farnworth: Maybe we'll get an answer to this. The Solicitor General, when asked about regional policing, dismisses it, says that it's not the answer. Y et the same day he said that, the Premier says that he's open to look- ing at regional policing in british c olumbia. [1410] So my question to the Solicitor General is: is he right or is the person who put him in cabinet right? Please give us an answer. interjections. Mr. Speaker: We're not starting till we get some quiet. Hon.

M. de Jong: h ere's what's clear from the discussion that we've been having for the past few days. [applause.] i'll regard that as anticipatory applause. a t a time when we are discussing a critically import- ant matter and the government is devoting more resources — more police added to the almost 1,000 additional police officers that are already on the streets of british c olumbia; more prosecutors dedicated to the task of focusing on gang-related crimes compared to what existed previously, which was virtually nothing; and a concerted effort to ensure that the prison facilities exist to put those gangsters behind bars — there is an opposition who are great at talking. but when it comes to actually building those facili- ties, building those prisons, they've got a very different attitude.

We're still waiting for the opposition to stand up and stop blocking the construction of a prison in burnaby so that gangsters can be placed behind bars. Protection o F ParkSVille WaterS heD S.

Fraser: a nd now for something completely differ - ent. island t imberlands has been logging old growth right in the middle of the englishman r iver. it's on an island there and along the banks. englishman r iver is a key water source for the city of Parksville and the entire region. on Monday the Parksville city council passed a unanimous resolution urging this government to step in, intervene and halt this logging. t o the Minister of a griculture and l ands. h e is responsible for the Private Managed Forest l and a ct.

What action will he take to ensure that Parksville's watershed and the regional watershed are protected? Hon. R. Cantelon: i'd like to thank the member opposite for raising the question, because it puts forward the issue of how privately managed forests are managed. i want to tell you that in this particular instance, every precaution was taken. in fact, only 21 out of 228 mer - chantable trees were removed from this site. h owever, i phoned up the president of island t imberlands immediately when i heard about the dis- tress that it was causing Parksville council.

They sent out a contingent of people to examine the site, including repre- sentatives from DFo , representatives from my office. The

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, February 19, 2009 13833 comments from the DFo were that this was a very well- managed harvest. it was a selective harvest by helicopter. only two trees actually hit the ground. in their opinion, there's no damage to the riparian area and the watershed. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. S. Fraser: i'm sure that the minister's constituents are comforted by that answer. [applause.] Thank you to the government side. [1415] The minister is responsible for the Private Managed Forest l and a ct.

That is the act that stripped the rights of communities to have any say over what happens in their watersheds. This government brought that in. This is the minister responsible. h is government is a major shareholder in island t imberlands. They own one-quarter of it. r emember, they purchased that through a secret holding company out of Manitoba. We learned that last year.

So they're putting this watershed at risk, and i've spoken with stream biologists, and they've confirmed that too. it's time for the minister to get his priorities straight, i think. a s the a uditor General found out, this gov- ernment failed to take into account the public interest when it comes to private managed forest lands. So to the minister…. interjections. S. Fraser: They want a question; i'll give them a question. The city of Parksville, this minister's constituents, have asked this government, his government, to stop this type of harmful logging from occurring in the future.

Will he put the public interest first, his constituents first, and support the resolution and protect the people of Parksville and the regional district? Hon. R. Cantelon: Firstly, i certainly do take the con- stituents' needs at heart. Those also include those who are trying to continue to make a living in the logging and forestry industry. i want to assure this h ouse…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. R.

Cantelon: i want to assure this h ouse that this side of the h ouse is very concerned and ultimately concerned with the quality of our environment and watersheds, and this minister takes that responsibility very seriously. n ow, i'd like to talk about…. The member also raises the issue of public input. This was logged under a plan, a watershed management plan, that involved consultation with the a rrowsmith Watersheds Society and other groups.

So there was consultation, and this limited, selective stem logging was done within the con- text of that plan, and it has been inspected by biologists representing the community, representing the Private Managed Forests c ouncil and independent people. buDGet Pro ViSionS For rural b.c. R. Austin: Mr. Speaker, in 2003 the l iberal govern- ment delivered its heartlands budget. r emember that? a nother flavour-of-the-month catchphrase from the Premier. in the interior, it's now referred to as the hurt- lands budget, because that's when we started to feel the pain of this Premier's neglect of rural b.c.

The Premier may have just woken up to the fact that b.c. is being hurt by the economic crisis, but rural b.c. has been feeling this pain for years. Y et there was noth- ing in the budget to address the catastrophic impacts of this downturn in our resource-dependent communities. The wealth of this province is created in rural b.c. Why has this government abandoned the engine of this province in its time of need? Hon. C. Hansen: a ctually, in this budget today are initiatives that are going to benefit northern and rural british c olumbia.

We're talking not only about the $129 million in the community development trust that's benefiting displaced forest workers in that member's community, but in addition…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Minister, just take your seat for a second. Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. C.

Hansen: in addition to flowing the funds through that trust, we also have $30 million of addi- tional money that's going into the b.c. rural secretariat to support economic diversification in the north. in this budget, as a result of the revenue-neutral carbon tax plan, we are flowing an additional $200 million per homeowner in northern and rural british c olumbia. That's on top of the $185 million that we have flowed into the n orthern Development t rust to benefit communities all across the north. [1420] Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

british c olumbia Debates13834 t hursday, February 19, 2009 R. Austin: What the minister fails to also include is that in this budget there's a 30 percent cut to energy and mines, a 14 percent cut to forestry, a 46 percent cut to agriculture, a 28 percent cut to tourism, an 11 percent cut to the environment. n o money for mountain pine beetle. n o help for laid-off forest workers. if that's not abandonment, i don't know what is. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. R.

Austin: c an the Finance Minister explain why he is abandoning rural b.c. when he should be investing in all the real wealth-creating industries of this province? Hon. C. Hansen: a ctually, it's too bad that this member didn't show up at the n orthern e conomic Summit that was held in Prince George, because if he had been there, he would have realized from the 650-some-odd delegates that attended that summit that there's a real sense of optimism in northern british c olumbia. There's a recognition that all corners of british c olumbia are being felt by the economic downturn. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. C. Hansen: but there's also a recognition that we're going to come through this stronger than just about any other jurisdiction in n orth a merica. That includes northern british c olumbia. Mr. Speaker, i can also tell you that there's a recogni- tion on the part of those that attended that conference that northern british c olumbia, under a b.c. l iberal government, where you've got unemployment rates today…. While they're a little bit higher than they were last year, they're still one heck of a lot lower than they were in the 1990s. N.

Macdonald: r ural british c olumbians have been struggling with a downturn in the forest industry for years now, yet this government did nothing again in the budget to help forest workers — nothing. e verything the minister talks about is federal money — nothing from the province. They have again aban- doned forest-dependent communities. n ow times are even tougher economically, and this Premier has cut tourism by 46 percent over the next three years. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. N.

Macdonald: a nother important rural issue, another important rural industry, and it's cut. h ow can this government justify cutting promotion of rural communities, while they splurge on the Premier's pet projects, like a retractable roof for b.c. Place? Hon. C. Hansen: This is a member of the l egislature who actually opposes independent power production projects in his own riding that are going to generate $4.3 billion of activity in northern and rural british c olumbia. This is a member who opposes the 1,100 jobs for iPPs.

This is a member that represents a part of british c olumbia that in the 1990s had over 15 per - cent unemployment compared to less than 8 percent unemployment today. This is a member who wants to rip up the softwood lumber agreement and further compromise forest jobs in british c olumbia. [end of question period.] Hon. S. Bond: i seek leave to present a petition. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Petitions Hon. S. Bond: i rise today to present a petition on behalf of residents in the r obson Valley, calling for further improvements to groundwater protection in british c olumbia. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members.

Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: i call continued debate on the supplementary estimates — c ommittee of Supply. [1425] Committee of Supply Su PPle Mentar Y e Sti Mate S: Mini Str Y o F co MMunit Y De Velo PMent (continued) The h ouse in c ommittee of Supply; S. h ammell in the chair. The committee met at 2:27 p.m. o n Vote 22(S): ministry operations, $186,000,000 (continued).

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, February 19, 2009 13835 N. Macdonald: We'll just maybe continue with the $70 million. i thank, again, the Minister of Finance for his explanation earlier on. c oming back to the $70 million, the minister charac- terized it as changed in nature and timing. The first that i would like to examine is the change in nature. c ould the minister specify in very clear ways how those funds have changed in nature? What did the minister mean by that term? Hon. K. Krueger: a s we discussed this morning, we wanted to have this money in the hands of local gov- ernments.

We felt that it would be an encouragement to them and to their citizens to actually know that the money was in the account. We felt it would be reason- able to ask them for a plan as to how they were going to disburse the funds and to require that there be reporting out to the people that those governments represent. i think it's interesting that the member keys on the traffic fine revenue-sharing.

This morning he and his colleagues were questioning whether it was appropri- ate to be doing this. a t lunchtime i was reading a local media commentary from k amloops where his leader had been saying that we should be getting money out to communities to help them with public safety issues. The nDP government in the '90s didn't flow traffic fine revenues to communities. We've been doing that for years now. We have flowed over a quarter billion dol- lars to communities and asked them to try and focus on community safety and loss prevention type issues, including policing if they choose. [1430] N.

Macdonald: So the experience that we have in the communities that i represent is that…. These are communities that are less than 5,000. Those commun- ities used to be subsidized with police, and that is no longer the case. That was a substantial change for taxa- tion. So for a lot of those smaller communities, that was a big hit. n ow, i understand that the promise was made and eventually kept to flow the money back. The minister has said that the nature of how that is done is changing.

Maybe, for my understanding, the minister could explain how it is usually done and then highlight what is different this year in how the money is collected and disbursed. What i would like to know is…. The minister talks about the communities reporting. is that normal pro- cedure? Just walk through what is normally done and what is different this time about the flow of funds. What is different about the nature of these funds? Hon. K. Krueger: The practice since we began flow- ing the traffic fine revenues to communities has been to pay the money over anywhere between a pril and June.

With regard to the evolution of the nature of these grants, we're in active consultations with the ubcM, which is consulting with its member communities. We want to allow flexibility, allow people to respond in their communities to local needs. So the full picture of what the nature of the use of these funds will become will be different from community to community. it's something that's being worked out as we speak. N.

Macdonald: if the nature is going to be different and how this is going to work is being negotiated at the moment, it does come back to the question about why we are doing supplementary estimates from last year. Why would this not be put in next year's budget or the budget of the year when you've actually figured out how you're going to flow these forms? Why is it put in supplementary estimates? Why not simply put it in the estimates for the year that it's intended? c learly, it's not ready to go yet. c learly, it's part of a process you're still working on. So why did you come in with supplementary estimates?

Why not simply put it in the budget where it properly belongs, for next year? Hon. K. Krueger: i thought it might be useful for the members opposite to have the hard numbers, where i talked about a percentage earlier in this morning's debate. in 1996 the nDP government had unconditional grants to municipalities of $141 million. by 2001 they had reduced that to only $36 million — a reduction of $105 million, which as i said this morning, is almost 75 percent.

The minister responsible for this ministry in 1997 was the person who is now the nDP h ouse l eader and sits to the l eader of the o pposition's right, and $60 million in cuts were made to local government grants while he was in that chair. in 1999 the member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant, who sits to the l eader of the o pposition's left, was the minister responsible for this ministry, and a $42 million cut occurred that year. We don't do things that way. We actually believe that local governments are in a position of being tremendously accountable to their constituents.

We believe that they're responsible and will make the right decisions. We made decisions not only to flow traffic fine revenues 100 percent to communities but to give almost $2 billion in addi- tional funding — new programs, t owns for t omorrow, l ocalMotion, grants of many types — to communities. We think they make good decisions with it. [1435] it's a different philosophy than the nDP , who thought they should not give the money and make decisions themselves.

The highly process-oriented nDP that we saw throughout the 1990s, rather than results-oriented, is the same nDP that's asking these questions across the floor today.

british c olumbia Debates13836 t hursday, February 19, 2009 We have a different and, i would submit, much more successful way of working with other governments. We don't fight with the federal government. We don't fight with municipalities. We respect their ability to manage funds.

We think that local electors choose them carefully. o ur decision is that we have more money this year than we think we will have next year or the year after that, and we felt that it would be good for the mem- bers' constituent municipalities — their councils, their mayors — and the people who live there if we made this decision, so that's what we've done. N. Macdonald: it was, i guess, a fairly specific ques- tion and a rhetorical answer, and i think rhetoric is not uncommon in this place. but a rhetorical answer allows a rhetorical question. What i would say is that my experience has been in local government.

What i have seen here are some fun- damental problems with how local government is dealt with. i'll just give the minister a few examples for him to consider. in terms of decision-making, i agree with the senti- ments that the minister expressed — that this is a level of government that sits in a very close, intimate sort of set- ting with the population that it represents, particularly in small communities where you make a decision, and the next day you see the people impacted at the grocery store.

So for me, i believe strongly in that local decision- making process. i'll just point to a few examples from communities in my area where that opportunity to make decisions has been taken away, and one of them is something that was raised here in question period. The fundamental objec- tion to iPPs lies with bill 30,

section 56, and the removal of people in our area to have a say over rivers in our area. That is a fundamentally wrong decision that this govern- ment has made, and that is the objection that is most strongly expressed by residents in my community. of a community of 4,000, in three weeks a thousand people signed a petition protesting a planned iPP on Thompson Falls. These are people that simply want a say on decisions that impact them. There are 23 of these projects that surround Golden and r evelstoke and others that will severely impact invermere. So taking away decision-making from local government is some- thing this government has done with bill 30,

section 56, and i feel strongly that's wrong. a s well, you have, with the decision on Jumbo Glacier resort…. Very clearly there was a promise made before the last election that the people at the regional district representing the people of the area would have a say in whether that resort was appropriate or not. There, again, we see an awful lot of backroom deals that seem to undermine that clear promise. The most recent would be with the environmental assessment going ahead and being given an extension. The regional district of e ast k ootenay wasn't given an opportunity to speak to it.

They probably would not have, because they expect to still be making the zoning decision. but the regional district of c entral k ootenay, i'm sure, has been in contact with the ministry and has found that that's a problem. So in terms of the nature of this project with the $70 million for traffic, my understanding, then, from what the minister has said is that we have basically a process that's still being worked out, that you're talking to com- munities in the ubcM and trying to think through how this money would flow through.

Would you explain to me again the timing for this year — and i apologize if the minister has already gone through this — and how the minister sees it working in future years? So timing. [1440] Hon. K. Krueger: The discussion we were having was about the nature of these granting programs, but the question put just now is timing. i would love to engage the member on the iPP question, but it's totally irrel- evant to the matter before us. We'll be doing that in a pril and May. but the timing i did go over before, and i don't mind at all doing it again.

The $186 million that we're dealing with right now is a one-time grant. There will be another flow of funds in July 2009 and another one after that in July of 2010. They will be smaller amounts than this. The municipalities will not lose any revenue at all. They simply are going to have money in their accounts, so they don't need to worry whether it's going to take months to recover the funds after they've incurred expenses on projects they'll be doing. They'll have the money to launch special policing initiatives within their borders if they choose.

So the timing of when the money is spent will be within their local autonomy. C. Wyse: before lunch we had been discussing a number of items. in my estimation…. i wish to state here that i had given an

interpretation — after many opportunities that i provided, in my judgment, for the hon. minister to elaborate upon how this supplementary budget of $186 million fit into an overall plan that had been thought out, and it was being responded to. a nd i had outlined this morning that in my judgment i had not received any answers. So that was the

interpretation that i gave. n ow, the other part that runs through this is my attempt to see what the game plan is here for this $186 million. i've looked at the previous time — the budget year, the supplement and then when the budget had been introduced for the upcoming years — and this supplementary influx of funds in the bill that we have in front of us stands out all by itself. it's a one-time-only shot that is here.

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, February 19, 2009 13837 The minister has left me very much with the attempt, if you like, to roll out good news, to make sure that it is rolled out in a timely fashion, from his perspective. a nd we will get to the specifics of this — but in a timely fashion. c ommunity announcements, projects for some 40 communities, of which the one that we know about happens to be k amloops — an area that is near and dear to all of us, i'm sure, but particularly, maybe, more dear to the minister. in an earlier part, with local government, he rolled out aspects around assessments and changes to the assess- ment procedure, an item that is very crucial to local government. i'm going to come back to that aspect of it. but my question is: how much…? by what factor does the gas tax increase for all british c olumbians, includ- ing municipalities, on July 1? is it a factor of one, of two, of three?

What is the factor for the increase of the gas tax effective July 1? [1445] Hon. K. Krueger: i wonder if the member would do us both a favour, and when he sees his Hansard, from those remarks count how many times he said "i" and "my" and "me" in his question. it's about communities. it's not about the member. it's not about any member over here. it's about governments working together and helping communities. The member suggests this is about rolling out good news.

This is about transferring funds to communities that need them and want them and have important things to do to meet our mutual goals of ensuring that jobs are preserved in those communities, that jobs are created, that families and workers have support. i'd ask the c hair, please, to remind the member we're not here to talk about a policy on other matters. We're not here to talk about the carbon tax — even though i'd love to, because we're proud of that initiative and where it's taking this province. but we're not here for that pur- pose either.

We're here to talk about transferring $186 million to communities who are anxious to receive the money, and that member is responsible for representing those communities. i don't think they're going to like what he's doing. C. Wyse: The supplementary bill that is in front of us contains within it carbon tax rebate for local gov- ernments. it is clearly contained in the supplementary estimates. c learly, the minister has not demonstrated what overall plan fits in for the various items.

There is contained in this legislation an item for carbon tax for local government. a pparently, the minister has forgotten that it was local government that raised the issue about this download on them. We now have the government's response to that download.

What i'm attempting to do is to determine how much further download is coming to local government and then from there to determine whether the supplement- ary figures, in actual fact, provide adequate protection for local government after the election. once more to the minister: what is the factor of increase for the carbon tax that these municipalities are going to receive July 1? Hon. K.

Krueger: We did cover this same ground this morning, but for the member's benefit again, it's really quite a simple thing. on page 110 of your budget docu- ment, the $3 million for rebating carbon tax revenues received from local governments is listed. Y es, local government raised this issue. Y es, we resolved it with them. We want them to sign on to the carbon action plan.

The money has been set aside to reimburse them their expenditures for carbon tax, and in subse- quent years we will continue to rebate the carbon tax that they've paid for direct expenditures on the fuels that were already thoroughly discussed this morning.

When the member repeatedly wants to talk about an overall plan, it's a plan that we prepared while in oppos- ition. it's a plan that we rolled out in government. it's a plan that's worked very well and continues to in the face of the worldwide economic turmoil that people and commun- ities are struggling with, certainly, all over this continent, right across our country and around the world. We're not here to talk about all of those things but about a specific action that our government is taking to provide certainty and reassurance to communities with this assured funding. C.

Wyse: The answer to the question — and i will leave it up to the minister to correct it if i'm, in actual fact, in error — is: double on July 1. a s the minister had stated this morning, we go from $3 million to $4 million in the next year. Double three is six, in my mind. [1450] What i'm attempting to have the minister clarify is whether this is just a spot announcement dealing with the actual urgency of an election, whether this is a budget that can be trusted or whether it is nothing more than showmanship, smoke and mirrors.

Subject to the analysis, there are 186 local govern- ments that clearly had requested protection from this download, very clearly had brought this forward to their annual general meeting and, very clearly, by the number of resolutions that were there, had voiced their concern. a nd, in case we've forgotten, it also happened to be at that meeting months ago where the announcement was made that there would be protection given. So i don't think that i am out of line when, months later, i'm dealing with a supplementary budget — to be stonewalled and to be moved around with answers to questions….

british c olumbia Debates13838 t hursday, February 19, 2009 n ow, earlier i referred to another item that had a profound effect upon local government, and the desire to roll out good news rapidly without understanding its total consequences does no one any service. in these trying times the financial plan has to be subject and stand up to scrutiny. it has to stand up to the projection of those scrutinies from the time we have started the debate and from the time we've been given the informa- tion, which was this morning for me, and it has to stand up to that scrutiny.

That's what this process is about. i make no apologies for doing my job in establishing what the intention is here. o ther people have pointed out the effect of what occurs from a previous action of rolling things out too quickly — that the consequences that occur are not what were intended to do. c learly, what we have heard is the argument that this $186 million is meant to put stability into the com- munities. The stability for local government is in their operating budget.

That's where their stability is. in that part of the budget, there's a 24 percent reduction, mil- lions of dollars, in the grants from this government that go to all local governments.

There is a shift in that part of the budget where it truly matters. c oupled with the assessment — freezing it, the threats of doing such and items of that nature — also brings into question the required confirmation that the local government's cost is still going to be able to be found by those local governments, with the ability for them to still be able to raise their taxes. c learly, the minister must step forward and deal with his bill, his portion of the bill, and explain its conse- quences. That's what this opportunity is about that is being provided.

My question to the minister: will he provide assurances that all the gas-related expenses that are encountered by local governments will be covered by this government in this supplementary set of estimates? [1455] Hon. K. Krueger: We did go over exactly this question and this material just several hours ago, this morning, but i'll remind the member. Perhaps he can read that in Hansard later as well. it's called the climate action revenue incentive pro- gram. it was committed by the Premier at the ubcM convention.

This $3 million covers the expenditures that local governments incurred for a carbon tax on fuels that they purchased directly. We intend, and have committed to them, to do likewise in each of the coming years. So in next year's budget there will be a line item to deal with whatever carbon tax expenditures the local governments have incurred over the year that we're about to start. C.

Wyse: The answer leaves relatively large areas to move through, with the delivery on the actual costs that local government is going to incur. i know we're dealing with local government and the effect upon them of this particular tax.

The minister has spoken eloquently, and we're attempting to determine whether the eloquentness is hollow or not, whether there's substance to it. h e talked about communities and the effect upon communities, and i believe when he tells me that. but that effect upon communities is broader and deeper by this particular tax on just local government. it includes school boards. it includes non-profits. it includes indi- viduals within the community. a nd the list goes on — hospitals and so on. it also includes the effect of the non-services that have not been provided by the senior levels of govern- ment — housing, mental illness, addictions and the like — that have put the homeless by the tens in some communities, by the hundreds in other communities, on the streets of those communities.

Without the resources to deal with those items and those outfalls, they have to deal with them. Some local governments have gotten so desperate that they're looking at taking on the responsibilities of the download that they have experienced. So when we come back to the supplementary bill of this $186 million, how true does it ring for providing for the abandonment of these communities and the people that live in them? h undreds of jobs have been lost in communities — hundreds; collectively, in actual fact across all of british c olumbia, thousands of jobs. Where do they live?

They live in our communities. it's important that we also be concentrating upon, with this $186 million, these one-time-only top-ups. a s we move through it, we will determine whether they are dealing with the capital aspect, how many communities are going to get benefits from it, when are they going to get benefits from it — those types of items.

We will get there. [1500] but all communities in british c olumbia — each and every one of them — now have homelessness in them, on their streets 12 months out of the year, year-round; mental illness and what goes on with it in every com- munity…. a nd local government lives with that. it may be dismissive to say: "let's move on. l et's hurry and roll out the good news. l et's get it in front of every- body." a s the minister himself has mentioned, i want to start dealing with what's going to happen in a pril and after that.

There's still a job to be done here, and that's dealing with the supplementary estimate, to see whether it rings with any solidness to it or whether it rings hollow and it's simply meant to get out of here and run out announce- ments where the government believes and wishes that they should be run out. The Chair: The question, Member.

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, February 19, 2009 13839 C. Wyse: Which leads me to my question: how did the government come up with the $3 million in the supplementary? Hon. K. Krueger: The ministry has been consulting with local governments and with the ubcM. it took a sample from local governments of what they deemed to be their expenditures with regard to carbon tax and asked the local governments how they thought we should deal with this. They didn't want a formula. They wanted to actually submit the documentation of their expenditures.

That's what they are doing, and they will be reimbursed from the $3 million. The member ranged quite broadly across the landscape in his question, but having raised the issue of infrastruc- ture funding, i'd just like to give him an example of the progressive approaches this government has taken. The t owns for t omorrow program. it was not, as the member seems to think, something that was abruptly announced recently. in fact, it was announced over two years ago. i was the Premier's Parliamentary Secretary for r ural Development at the time.

We were concerned about the fact that small communities often can't take advantage of infrastructure programs that are announced by senior governments because they lack the financial capacity to partner equally. The Premier, who has a great deal of experience with local government and with the ubcM, conceived a pro- gram where we would pay the province. This one isn't a federal and provincial shared program.

We would pay 80 percent of the cost of the project. i asked him what sort of rules he wanted to see prepared around the program, and he said: "a s few as possible. i want to focus on whatever they deem to be their highest priority." i don't know how you could get a program that's more responsive to the needs of local communities than that. it's true that all three levels of government have been partnering to deal with the issue of homelessness, and partnering very successfully. if local governments bring on an application that focuses on homeless issues under t owns for t omorrow, we happily accept that.

They choose what their priorities are; we don't impose. i hope that answers the member's question adequately. [1505] C. Wyse: i will get back to what i understood was the germane part to the question that i posed about dealing with the system that was used to develop the rebate. if i understood things correctly, it was one of sampling. Then if i understood correctly, there would be a 100 percent rebate of the funds that were….

For the documentation, there would be a 100 percent rebate. i don't wish to go through all the local governments, but i do wish to have confirmed that my understanding is accurate and that it applies to both the incorporated areas and the regional districts. Hon. K. Krueger: Y es. The commitment is to reim- burse the direct costs of local governments, including incorporated local governments and the regional districts. C. Wyse: i thank the minister for an answer that i was able to understand.

Maybe my questions got a little bit better as we have been working on this together. i would also like to ask the minister whether he would give me a commitment — rather than me going through and reading out the names of all the incorporated areas and regional districts — that a list of the actual funding requests from the government be provided in writing to me at a later date. Hon. K. Krueger: Those have not, obviously, all been received yet. When they are, we will do that. C. Wyse: is the minister anticipating that this will be in before May 12? Hon. K. Krueger: Y es, by the end of March. C.

Wyse: i apologize to the minister. With me begin- ning to think of what i didn't understand, i may have missed a part of his answer. Do i have the commitment from the minister that he will provide that information to me in writing immediately after the end of March? Hon. K. Krueger: Y es, that's correct. We should have all of the documentation by March 31, and we'll provide it to the opposition critic as soon as we do. C. Wyse: When is the minister anticipating the cheques to be written and sent to the local government? Hon. K.

Krueger: o ur intent is that those moneys will be flowed to the communities before the end of March. both deadlines are the same. C. Wyse: a t this time i'm going to turn it over to one of my colleagues. h e has some questions that he would like to pursue on this. [1510] G. Gentner: Thank you to the minister and his staff who are here today. i'll just start off by saying to the min- ister from the Thompson watershed that what happens up in your neck of the woods obviously can find its way to the shores of Delta.

We have had quite a concern in my community for some time relative to the dredging concerns, the flooding, etc. i'm wondering: out of this $186 million supplementary budget, how much is going

british c olumbia Debates13840 t hursday, February 19, 2009 to be devoted to those types of programs and to which communities? Hon. K. Krueger: The issue of flood control funding is not a matter that is dealt with in this $186 million supplemental estimate. There is an agreement under the building c anada fund, and that'll be through the Solicitor General's ministry. Y ou'll have an opportunity to deal with that in the budget debate. it's a $25 million program. a s i understand it, each of the three levels of government will put in $25 million, but that's a separate issue from this.

These programs, including things like t owns for t omorrow and l ocalMotion, are funded by applica- tion from municipalities, according to their choice of priorities. G. Gentner: t o the minister: how many applications did the ministry receive for financial help from munici- palities and regional districts? Hon. K. Krueger: c urrently in the system are over 100 applications from municipalities for the t owns for t omorrow program and also more than 100 other appli- cations under the l ocalMotion program.

The sum of the amounts applied for with regard to t owns for t omorrow is $37 million in active applications right now and under l ocalMotion, $26 million. G. Gentner: So we're looking at about 200 applica- tions. h ow many were approved? Hon. K. Krueger: The approval process is actively underway. The commitment was approval decisions within 60 days, and the 60 days are up March 16. We're very much on track to meet that deadline, and i'm actually very confident that we will make those deci- sions weeks before that. G.

Gentner: So in effect, Minister, we are going to approve the expenditure of these grants without know- ing where they're going. is that correct? Hon. K. Krueger: What we're dealing with here is approving the overall funding for the grants. The grants themselves…. a s they're decided, it'll be very public and certainly available to the opposition. G. Gentner: h ow many agencies outside of munici- palities and districts are going to receive money out of this $186 million supplementary budget? [1515] Hon. K. Krueger: The answer is none. This funding is all for local governments. G.

Gentner: So if i have the math right — hopefully, the minister can correct me — we're looking at close to $60 million allocated through these various applications. What is the difference going to be spent towards? Hon. K. Krueger: beyond the specific infrastructure programs, the municipalities have a lot of autonomy. o ur hope is that the funds will substantially be spent on community safety measures, whether it be policing or crime prevention programs. but the communities will decide, as they have in the past. G. Gentner: So for community safety.

Would the min- ister suggest that some of that money will also be used, indirectly or directly, towards security of the olympics? Hon. K. Krueger: The answer is no. G. Gentner: i'm just wondering: what is the largest grant that will be awarded under this budget? Hon. K. Krueger: The largest assured funding alloca- tion is to the city of Vancouver — $15,723,893. That's all of these different aspects, cumulative. G. Gentner: So $15 million-plus for the city of Vancouver. Just out of interest, what else, on top of it, do you expect to be granting the city of Vancouver beyond the $15 million? Hon. K.

Krueger: i wasn't sure if i heard the member correctly, or he might not have heard me correctly. The number was $15,723,893. i thought he might have said 50, but 15 is what i was saying. The other question has really no relevance to the supplemental estimates. That's Vancouver's allocation out of this $186 million. G. Gentner: i'm just wondering how much of the $186 million will be awarded to the village of Whistler in this budget. Hon. K. Krueger: The answer is $678,821. G. Gentner: That is exclusively based on the l ocalMotion grants and the other grants, the so-called 200 applications? [1520] Hon. K.

Krueger: The member is crossing over from one aspect to another here. These numbers we're talking about right now are not specific grant allocations for the infrastructure programs, because as we discussed a few minutes ago, those aren't decided yet. This is a combination of the small communities grants and the traffic fine revenues. n ot all communities qual-

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, February 19, 2009 13841 ify, of course, for the small communities grants. but that's the number that we were just discussing — not specific allocations under the infrastructure programs, which haven't been decided yet. G. Gentner: t o the minister: how many applications are still outstanding for the village of Whistler relative to these infrastructure projects that are forthcoming? Hon. K. Krueger: We don't have that number at our fingertips, but we'll provide it to the member in writ- ing.

The t owns for t omorrow program only applies to communities of 15,000 population or less. We're cer - tain that Whistler has at least one application into the l ocalMotion infrastructure program. G. Gentner: i'm just wondering when i'll receive that information. c an we put a date on it, please? Hon. K. Krueger: a s i mentioned, the deadline is March 16, and we'll let the member know very shortly after that. G. Gentner: So a time frame would be before a pril 12. is that correct? Hon. K. Krueger: The answer is yes. G.

Gentner: i'm just curious as well. h ow much of this $186 million will be allocated towards the funding of any P3s? Hon. K. Krueger: That's entirely up to the local governments. G. Gentner: So there are no criteria for how you award this money? Y ou're quite indifferent to where the money is spent? Hon. K. Krueger: of course there are criteria around the programs. a s i mentioned earlier, t owns for t omorrow…. The essential rule is that whatever the com- munity's priority is, we're happy to accept an application for that.

We'll also happily give the member the criteria for l ocalMotion. i think that answers the question. [1525] G. Gentner: i'm curious. o bviously, the minister is either being evasive or doesn't know about the role- playing of P3s in the funding of the $186 million. So my question, therefore, would be: what kind of discourse has the minister had with Partnerships b.c. relative to any projects that are associated with the funding coming out of this budget? Hon. K. Krueger: i wasn't meaning to be evasive at all. i said that it's up to the municipalities what sort of construction arrangements they want to make.

The maximum grant under t owns for t omorrow is $400,000. These projects are probably not large enough that people would spend time canvassing whether to do them as public-private partnerships. but if they wanted to, for rea- sons of their choosing, municipalities certainly could. We have not given any direction whatsoever on that subject. G. Gentner: i'd like to direct my questions towards my community, Delta, which is probably within the top ten most populated areas of the province.

My understand- ing is that the municipality has made some applications for various projects. i have to clear something up, because the terminology has been around for some time. We hear the concept "shovel-ready." c ould the minister explain to me: what is shovel-ready? Hon. K. Krueger: i think when people use that term, they mean a project that is already through its planning stages and budgeting, and the community is actually ready to start construction. i don't know if the member specifically asked, but the community of Delta's share is $1,922,102. G. Gentner: That was $1.922 million.

So $183 million and less than $2 million for Delta. i know Delta made an application for a new sewer line, a trunk line, to serve all of south Delta. it has a capacity, i believe, for 50,000 people, and it is by all

definitions shovel-ready. The shovels are moving as we speak. h ow much money did Delta receive for this project? Hon. K. Krueger: a pplications for infrastructure money for large projects such as that come through the building c anada fund, which these supplemental estimates are not involved with at all. That's a separate matter. We don't know offhand what the amount was, but we'd be happy to give the member that answer regard- less. We'll correspond with him about that. G. Gentner: So if i have it correct, the minister is saying there is no money allocated towards this project? Hon. K. Krueger: n o.

What i said was the building c anada fund is not a subject of this discussion. The $186 million we're dealing with in supplemental estimates doesn't touch on the building c anada fund. That's a partnership with the federal government and com- munities. Federal government and the province work through the applications, and it just isn't something we have with us today, because it really has nothing to do with this particular allocation. G. Gentner: The minister mentioned a new criterion here — the difference between what constitutes a large

british c olumbia Debates13842 t hursday, February 19, 2009 project and what constitutes a small project. c an the minister explain to us what is meant by a large project and what is the criterion to fund a small project? [1530] Hon. K. Krueger: The two programs we're discuss- ing here…. t owns for t omorrow — the maximum amount that can be granted for a project is $400,000. l ocalMotion — the maximum is a million dollars.

The size and scope of the project the member is describing, of course, would be far beyond that. but it would pre- sumably be a project where the application would be to the building c anada fund. G. Gentner: a nother shovel-ready project Delta has applied for is the Sungod expansion project. c an the minister draw some light on how we're making out with that one? Hon. K. Krueger: We'll take a step back to try and make sure that we didn't miss something fundamental in this exchange. t owns for t omorrow is for communities of 15,000 population or less, which Delta isn't.

Delta would cer - tainly be able to submit applications to l ocalMotion, but that doesn't sound like a l ocalMotion project either. So there may be some confusion here about the differ - ent infrastructure programs. i'm not familiar with that project, but l ocalMotion is about cycling trails, walking trails — those sorts of projects. G.

Gentner: The Sungod recreation expansion project is exactly that, in part. it is to provide recreation for chil- dren and families in my community. a s a former chair of the parks and rec commission, you know, i was very proud of a project then that was on time and on budget, because it had been very, very successful. The project is looking to expand the fitness area from 3,500 square feet to 7,000. They've been to various levels of governments and various agencies, and i was led to believe that they're quite hopeful that Delta would not necessarily be punished because it's over 15,000 popula- tion capacity.

So i just want to make sure, for the record: Delta will not receive any funding for a shovel-ready project such as Sungod expansion project. Hon. K. Krueger: That is not what was said. Delta may well have an application in the process under the building c anada fund, which is not the subject of these supplemental estimates. The 15,000 number pertains to the t owns for t omorrow program, which i think the critic is presently explaining to the member. [k. Whittred in the chair.] G.

Gentner: a nother shovel-ready project, the Delta archives, is ready to go. it needs seismic- and flood- proofing for all its records, municipal records that are very vulnerable. They've had floods there before, and it needs to be refitted. The total cost there — my under - standing — is only $600,000. c an the minister explain how much grant money Delta will receive for this project? Hon. K. Krueger: c learly, out of the two programs that we are discussing in the supplemental estimates infrastructure programs, one — t owns for t omorrow — doesn't pertain to a city of that size.

The other one, as i just covered in the previous answer, is called l ocalMotion, and it has to do with cycling paths, walk- ing paths — not archives. but the building c anada infrastructure fund is a separate fund, and there may well be applications before that. We don't have those materials with us, because the building c anada fund has nothing to do with these supplemental estimates. [1535] G. Gentner: The minister mentioned that, over and above these different applications, a large part of this money will be dedicated towards community safety.

Delta has a project here that fits that, and that is relative to the boundary bay a irport. There has been discussion — my understanding — regarding this, not only with the federal…. My understanding…. i don't think it is a c anada…. it is a shared, but it's not under the construc- tion program the minister has been referring to. h ow much money will Delta receive for the secure- ment of a fence — $2 million worth, i believe — and camera security that is supposed to be in place pre- o lympics? Hon. K.

Krueger: a s we mentioned earlier, Delta is receiving $1,922,102. o ur hope is that communities will use that funding for community safety issues. They make the decision. G. Gentner: So the minister is saying that you write a blank cheque for a community like Delta for close to $2 million for community security purposes, and you don't know what you're getting out of it? Hon. K. Krueger: it's hardly a blank cheque. it's $1,922,102 — a very specific amount. but yes, the muni- cipalities have autonomy as to decisions that they make for allocation of these funds. G.

Gentner: So hypothetically, i'd say a community like Delta can take the $1,922,000 gift and put it towards security costs at boundary bay a irport?

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, February 19, 2009 13843 Hon. K. Krueger: We covered earlier the fact that municipalities are required to report to their citizens on how they spend these allocations. We have been provid- ing this traffic revenue-sharing money for some years now, and they have been reporting to us. Most of them quite faithfully spend the money on community safety issues. Many spend it directly on policing. G. Gentner: i'm sorry. i just don't understand the criteria now. Y ou're telling me, Minister, that Delta is going to receive $1.922 million. Y ou have no idea where that money is going.

Y ou don't know the criteria for how it's going to be awarded. Y et there could be another municipality that could be awarded $5 mil- lion for something that could be related to community safety. h ow do you judge that Delta is allowed or should be worthy of $1.922 million and another community could be getting less with an even greater population? if you just sign out a cheque and not find out what the bench- marks are, what's driving the bus here? Hon. K.

Krueger: The formula is the percentage of the particular community's expenditures on policing costs of the total spent in the province, that percent- age being applied to the total traffic fine revenues received. We don't have the number with us presently, but whatever the percentage is that Delta spent on policing costs compared to the provincial total is the percentage of the total traffic fine revenues they'll receive. G.

Gentner: So does the minister think that's fair? is the minister telling me that a municipality may spend more money in policing than another one, and the grant is awarded on the percentage of how much that com- munity spends? [1540] Does the minister think that's fair — that there should be an area in the province that may not have the same policing level and therefore, if that's the formula, will receive less money per capita? Hon. K. Krueger: Y es, certainly. We are distributing these funds on the basis of expenditures that commun- ities are making on community safety through policing expenditures. G.

Gentner: it's obvious the ministry is supporting the status quo, and frankly, we know what status quo in this province is like when it comes down to gang wars and everything else we're seeing on the street. i would think if this government was going to be proactive in how it's going to do its policing, it would certainly look at those areas in the province that need special attention, but they certainly won't get it through this type of grant. h on. c hair, i'm about going to wrap up here, just to give a heads-up to my colleagues that they can be willing to stand up.

Since there is no criteria of how this money is going to be spent, i'm wondering…. There is one other program here that — i don't know — doesn't seem to come under this ministry, but it's involved with the u nion of b.c. Municipalities. i know it's called the school community connections program. it's there to use schools in order to benefit communities at large. one of the projects that has been bandied about in Delta is the improvement to some of the track fields in my community, which are woefully underfunded and need improvements. in fact, they were built years ago during a b.c.

Summer Games — grant money. i'm wondering if the ministry — through this $163 million, of which Delta will only receive less than $2 mil- lion — is considering putting money into our track and field facilities that need improvements. Hon. K. Krueger: a project like that would not be in the scope of these supplemental estimates. There is a fund administered by the ubcM and, we believe, the b.c. School t rustees a ssociation, but it's not a subject of these supplemental estimates. G.

Gentner: i'll conclude with this. i'm pleading with the minister to consider the following. because we're now going to allocate all this money and we don't know how it's going to be spent…. With due respect, we know that there is an election coming. h opefully, that will not play on how you're going to allocate the money, where you have yet to decide where it's going to go. i have to tell you that when i talk about Delta, i'm talking about south Delta as well. it's a shared commun- ity. i hope you will consider looking….

There will be times between now and when you make your decision at the end of March that you will be heavily lobbied by municipalities and lobby groups — that you will give Delta a fair shake. With that, i'll pass the baton. C. Wyse: in our discussion, and i believe this was before lunch, the minister, in talking to the h ouse, had mentioned and talked about Spirit Squares. in the dis- cussions in reference to Spirit Squares, i wish to have him clarify whether the funding of Spirit Squares is part of these estimates here. [1545] Hon. K.

Krueger: The budget for the Spirit Squares program has been fully depleted by the applications that were received. but there is nothing that would pre- vent a municipality that's constructing a Spirit Square, because of a successful application, from using funds from this allocation we're talking about today to pay their share.

british c olumbia Debates13844 t hursday, February 19, 2009 if there are communities that want to do something like a Spirit Square that didn't get an application in on time or weren't successful, there's nothing that prevents them from making an application under the t owns for t omorrow program, if their community is under 15,000 in population. C. Wyse: The Spirit Squares were originally funded under the 2010 l egacies n ow funding? Hon. K.

Krueger: once again, this is really outside the scope of what we're debating here today, but they were actually funded through the Ministry of c ommunity Development as a unique infrastructure program with a specific budget that has been used. C. Wyse: Thank you, hon. Speaker. Sorry about that. Sometimes thinking and being on your feet at the same time is a bit of a challenge for me too. h ow much of the $30 million, then, would be allo- cated to the Spirit Squares? Hon. K. Krueger: The $30 million that is a line item for t owns for t omorrow is a separate matter from the Spirit Squares program.

That was a $20 million budget, and the province's funding from that has all been allo- cated. but the funding that we were talking about earlier — the small community grants, the traffic fine revenues and so on…. c ommunities are receiving their share of that, and they may well use some of that money to pay their portion of Spirit Square projects. C. Wyse: in the note that i have in front of me, i have t owns for t omorrow, and i have a sum of money that's allocated to it of $30 million. it's included in this legisla- tion. So what are the criteria, then, for these applications? Hon. K.

Krueger: The t owns for t omorrow program was created by the Premier to help communities, initially for under 5,000 population and later expanded to 15,000 population. c ommunities of that size, particularly the first group, often found themselves unable to afford to partici- pate in infrastructure projects brought on by the senior governments.

So the Premier wished to make it easier for them and created t owns for t omorrow, where they can receive 80 percent funding by the provincial government. a s i mentioned earlier, even though the Spirit Square budget is spent, if a town had as its first priority a square of some kind that it wanted to build, they could apply and qualify for up to a $400,000 grant, which would be a max- imum of 80 percent of the actual cost of the project. We'll be doing another intake of applications. The applications that we have presently before us total $37 million. C.

Wyse: The issue, as i see it, is that we're now trying to establish the criteria that are used for the disburse- ment of $186 million.

We're attempting to find out who is going to receive it and what the criteria are going to be for them to receive it. it would be interesting to know that, because we have seen that this is a very unusual new sum of money that has been dropped on the scene just before an election. [1550] We're trying to determine that all british c olumbians everywhere in the province are going to have fair and reasonable access to those funds — that this simply isn't going to be an ability to throw funds off the back of a truck on the communities that the Premier has deter - mined would be advantageous to receive them.

We're attempting to determine that there is a set criteria that is applied fairly across the whole province so that this does not come into play, so that all the communities here in the province have fair access to those funds. i under- stand the process — that it's 80-20. i understand that it's set up to support communities and their population size. n ow what i'm attempting to determine is: what are the criteria that are used, amongst the applications that have been received, to determine who gets the bucks? Hon. K.

Krueger: a ll of these funding sources for muni- cipalities have been in place for quite some time. They've been in the public domain. t owns have been applying under these infrastructure programs for years now. We just went through, with the member from Delta, the traffic fine revenue-sharing formula. So that's on the record for the member, if he'd like to read it later. The small communities grants — our government decided to double what they had been.

The amount that each community receives is determined by a formula that's set out in regulation and on a per-capita basis. l ocalMotion and t owns for t omorrow are infrastruc- ture funds that individual communities apply to, and we've talked about those numbers. t rees for t omorrow is an infrastructure program meant to add four million trees to municipal landscapes. That's included in these numbers — a portion of it. We've talked thoroughly about the carbon tax revenues and rebates to municipalities. So it's all on the record and has been in the public domain for a long time. C.

Wyse: What the minister is not telling the h ouse is what criteria are being used to assign the funds to the specific communities that in actual fact are chosen. The minister clearly has told the h ouse that they were over- subscribed in applications for the amount of funds that were available. r ight now the minister has not explained what rationale was used to say who got it and who didn't get it. That's what my question is. n ot why the fund was set up, not how it was set up, but what is the rationale used to determine who won and who lost? [1555]

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, February 19, 2009 13845 Hon. K. Krueger: We actually have covered this ground, but we'd be happy to do it again. i just talked about the traffic fine revenue-sharing formula, the small community grants formula. There are no losers. e verybody wins under those programs. a ll the com- munities and the regional districts get a share. a gain, i just went over the formula. no losers. The t owns for t omorrow program. We've covered very few limitations on a municipality. The limit is a maximum of $400,000. The limit is 80 percent of a pro- ject.

We believe that we're in the happy position of being able to fund most, if not all, of the existing applications. c ommunities know that they are free to apply once a year, and there will be more funds available in future. The l ocalMotion infrastructure fund. We'll happily send the member the criteria for that. it's very public. a ll the communities have it. They're welcome to apply. in that case, we've got $26 million in outstanding appli- cations and only $10 million left in the budget. but as we covered with one of the member's colleagues earlier, the deadline for making those decisions is March 16. C.

Wyse: My questions have been relatively specific — at least, they have been in my mind — on the programs for t owns for t omorrow and attempting to determine how decisions were made. c learly, we're going into an election. c learly, we have a supplementary estimates bill that is in front of us for $186 million.

Surely british c olumbians are entitled to know what rationale is being used to disburse these funds. a s the minister has pointed out, each of these particu- lar programs has got different criteria that cover them. t o mix them all up as though they're in one grab-bag doesn't shine any more light upon understanding the process that is used.

We're attempting to determine here that there's a fairness of opportunity that is available. british c olumbians are entitled to know that the funds that we're talking about spending are in actual fact equally available across the board, independently evaluated on their merit, and that decisions are made in that fashion, separate from an election, separate from attempting to have influence on good-news announce- ments each and every day that have been offered by members opposite. "c ome back every day. We'll have more good news to give you." n ow, when a bill is brought in saying, "Give us $186 million.

Make it available," and they're not willing to explain how it will be disbursed, it leaves that challenge open here. So once more to the minister: who makes the decision upon who receives funds from the t owns for t omorrow funding? [1600] Hon. K. Krueger: h ere are the evaluation criteria for t owns for t omorrow, which is administered by c ommunity Development staff. a s identified in the pro- gram guide, which is available to municipalities and local governments, project evaluation criteria are focused on the principles of sustainability. The agreed-upon evalua- tion criteria for the 2009 round are as follows.

First, contribution towards community greenhouse gas emission reductions — 25 percent of the budget is allocated to such projects. Second, public and environ- mental health benefits — 25 percent there. Third, extent to which the community is advancing the a ctn ow b.c. principle of being more physically active, and building seniors-friendly and disability-friendly communities. Those are the considerations that the staff use. Projects have been assessed on how they meet these criteria and given a high, medium or low ranking. C.

Wyse: i do wish to acknowledge that they've nar - rowed down…. i appreciate the answer, and it may be my difficulty and not the minister's. but i now understand who is doing the evaluation and the criteria around it. h ow is this information made available for these supple- mentary grants to local government to apply for them? Hon. K. Krueger: The program was publicly announced, and applications can be made on line. They're available to all local governments of those sizes of population. C.

Wyse: i believe i heard the minister say that it had been publicly announced. i was given the supplement- ary estimates today. So i guess i've missed the public announcement that these funds were going to be there. i would ask the minister to help clear that up for me. i have just been given the figures that deal with the increase for the t owns for t omorrow, and if i understood the information i've been given, it was oversubscribed. in essence, we were broke for handing out the funds. So how does this information get out? There seems to me to be a contradiction that i just got the stuff today. Hon. K.

Krueger: The member was specifically asking about t owns for t omorrow, and that fund is not oversubscribed. That isn't what i was talking about. it was in the l ocalMotion infrastructure program that the remaining amount is oversubscribed. When i said this was publicly announced, it was at the end of 2006, i believe, that the first announcement was made. We have added funds to the t owns for t omorrow program since then. That's been very public.

We also increased the size of communities that qual- ify — up to 15,000 — although it's a slightly different funding formula. [1605] They can only receive 75 percent from the fund, where the under-5,000 communities can receive 80 percent. We also added regional districts and made a commitment to decisions within 60 days of the applica- tion closing date.

british c olumbia Debates13846 t hursday, February 19, 2009 When i said that it was all publicly announced, that started in 2006, and there have been public announce- ments along the way as the program has been expanded. So these supplemental estimates aren't creating a new program. They are making the money available to com- munities right now because we have the funds, and we have more funds than we expect to have next year and the year after that. C.

Wyse: it is easy, in my judgment, to take the detractor here and go down — that we've got more funds this year than we have the upcoming two years. it's one of the points that have been made on numer - ous occasions. This sudden increase of funds is not sustained over the projected budgets for the next two years. We've established quite clearly that there is a con- nection between these funds becoming available in 2009, coinciding with the election that is upcoming. i think those aspects have been established, and i don't want to go down that road. What i do believe that i have been given

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0219pm-06
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0219pm 06
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	d1513d5bf873135eca273848df677816bda8aa46

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).