May 5,

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLIV

No. 18

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!

Before we begin our routine proceedings, the Chair would like

to welcome to the gallery today Mayor Aneitha Sheaves and Town Manager Melvin

Keeping from the town of Channel-Port aux Basques. I would like to welcome them

on behalf of all members.

As well we have in the gallery today, and I would like to

welcome them on behalf of all members, Mayor Walwin Blackmore and Deputy Mayor

Bob King from the town of Grand Falls-Windsor.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture

and Recreation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform my

colleagues that the month of May has once again been designated Tourism

Awareness Month in Newfoundland and Labrador. This is an annual information

campaign managed by Hospitality Newfoundland and Labrador, the provincial

tourism industry association, which is also a strong and valued partner with my

Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

Tourism Awareness Month celebrates the tourism industry of

our Province, and builds awareness of the benefits of tourism to our economy.

This year's theme, "Summer Soiree - our province, our party," encourages

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to explore and enjoy our beautiful Province.

It's a timely theme and it goes hand-in-hand with the events and festivals of

Soiree '99, as we invite everyone across the nation to "Celebrate Canada our

way."

Government is committed to the development and support of our

tourism industry, and to partner with the industry on a vast number of projects,

including Tourism Awareness Month. Over the past decade, there have been a great

many strides in both the quality and quantity of tourism operators and their

products in Newfoundland and Labrador.

With the Cabot 500 celebrations in 1997, the Soiree '99

celebrations this year and the Viking 1000 anniversary next year, we have

incredible opportunities to continue building our world-class industry. Tourism

is now the fourth largest industry in the Province, accounting for about 5 per

cent of our Gross Domestic Product, and is worth in excess of a half-billion

dollars in annual expenditures.

Everyone in Newfoundland and Labrador has a stake in the

continued prosperity of our tourism industry, and one of the goals of Tourism

Awareness Month is to inform the people of this Province about the incredible

vacation experiences we can offer right throughout the Province - both for

ourselves and for our visitors.

Mr. Speaker, Official Tourism Awareness Month launches and

events have already begun in several areas of the Province, and will continue

throughout May. I would like to take this opportunity to invite all members to

attend both the Avalon Kick-off for Tourism Awareness Month beginning today at

5:00 p.m. at the St. John's Waterfront at Pier 7 across from Bishop's Cove and

to meet with Industry Partners in the lobby of Confederation Building tomorrow

from 11:30 a.m to 2:30 p.m. where I will be serving chowder, Chucky's chowder.

I ask my colleagues to join me in saluting the tourism

industry in Newfoundland and Labrador, and I encourage you all to keep spreading

the word, both at home and away, about our tourism products and the importance

of the long-term economic benefits to the Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St.

Mary's.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

I would first like to thank the minister for forwarding me a

copy of his ministerial statement before the House opened, and also thank him

for his invitation to join him for Chucky's chowder tomorrow. Tourism Awareness

Month is certainly very important and I am sure it is very important to the

minister. Now that he is not travelling around the world he is trying to get the

world to come visit him. I really believe, Mr. Minister -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: - it is an effort that would benefit the

whole Province, along with the minister, in trying to renew some friendships he

had made over the years as the Minister of ITT.

Mr. Speaker, in all sincerity, it is very important that we

promote Newfoundland and Labrador, not only among ourselves here in the

Province, but indeed throughout the world. It is very a global market we are

trying to penetrate now as a tourism industry. We have much to offer in this

Province, from our small communities out around rural Newfoundland and indeed to

the City of St. John's here, which has one of the oldest streets in North

America, Water Street.

There is much here to offer and I believe that the Department

of Tourism, Culture and Recreation has come a long way, even before this

minister got his hands on the department. It has come a long way and I am sure

that the previous minister did much work in promoting, also. I am sure there are

some operators out in the Province who would be saying -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. MANNING: I say, Mr. Speaker, that it is very

important we keep promoting Newfoundland and Labrador throughout the world

because we are a destination that many people have not had a chance to visit

yet. I am sure that over the next couple of years as we reach into the new

millennium Newfoundland and Labrador will become a marketplace that we will all

be proud of.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the minister for the advance copy of

his ministerial statement. I say that tourism is an exciting and relatively

newly focused industry in the Province. Many communities around the Province

have taken initiatives and developed their own local attractions that draw

people to their area, and it has good potential for even greater employment

opportunities.

I would like to speak about Labrador, and the potential that

offers for tourism with our hunting or fishing. One of the things that I think

is required for it to be even more successful is that something has to be done

with regard to the cost of getting to areas, including the Island portion of the

Province, in terms of the prices on the ferry from Port aux Basques to North

Sydney and from Lewisporte to Goose Bay.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. COLLINS: I think there has to be more partnering with

the airlines for Labrador in particular so people can come in at relatively the

same cost they can go elsewhere and enjoy the sights. I think that once we are

able to do that, tourism will take off and become probably one of the largest

industries that we, in the Province, have to offer for employment opportunities.

Thank you.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions, today are to the Minister of Health and

Community Services. Minister, three doctors have resigned from the Bonavista

hospital and left this Province, leaving only two salaried physicians there to

carry the workload. These physicians claimed they were promised certain

conditions and benefits before taking up duty, and those promises were not kept.

The only recourse open now is to bring in locums at a fair

expense - a minimum, I think, of $550 a day - if we can find doctors to do those

locums. I ask the minister: What has she and her department done to try to

retain those doctors?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and

Community Services.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As you know, since last year we have been putting a lot of

energy into recruitment across the Province. In fact, we have put in place a

provincial recruitment committee compromised of -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, if I may have an

opportunity to answer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we have put in place a provincial recruitment

committee compromised of a number of groups, including the past dean of the

medical school, the current dean, physicians, and members of my department and

the medical association. They have been working very diligently to put in place

a provincial plan.

Specifically related to this issue, we did originally recruit

three salaried physicians from South Africa. They did resign on April 30, with

only ten days notice, which certainly did give us significant concern. It is a

very short period of time to give notice to provide care for patients -

generally there is a ninety-day notice period - so we were quite concerned about

that and we will be following up on that particular issue.

We are still actively recruiting, as the member opposite

knows. This week there are physicians writing their exams, and many of those

available to assist are currently writing exams. They will be back in the

Province on Monday and the normal and active recruitment process will continue

to try to address needs not only in Bonavista but throughout the Province.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition

House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister, my colleague attended a meeting over a month ago

with the CEO and representatives of that board telling them about that, the

concern that doctors were leaving - over a month ago - and the minister states

she had ten days notice.

Minister, I think you have missed the boat on this. It is not

a recruitment committee we should be looking at; it is a retention committee.

Why should we have to have a recruitment committee if we have an effective

retention system here in our Province? There are solutions to it, I say to the

minister.

There is considerable unrest, not only in Bonavista area, on

the Burin Peninsula. Doctors there are leaving, or planning to leave. In fact

the squeeze has been put on fee-for-service physicians in that area, many people

who have made the Burin Peninsula their home for up to eleven years and who want

to stay there. I am told that the board is not even following its own bylaws and

guidelines when hiring, and is failing to listen to the concern of physicians.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member now to get to his question.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am sure the minister is aware that up to eleven doctors are

leaving, or giving consideration to leave. I want to ask her the question: In

light of the fact that the five towns on the Peninsula - and the people have

seen this as so serious that they have written the Premier a letter asking him

for a meeting to address the urgency - I ask the minister: What is she doing to

address the legitimate concerns of those doctors before they all leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and

Community Services.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am happy to respond. In fact, we have been speaking with

the various parties as late as this morning to put in place a process to begin

to deal with this particular issue. As the member opposite knows, there have

been a number of long-standing issues particularly in that area. We have now put

in place with all the parties, including the board, the physicians, and the

spokesperson for the independent councils, a process whereby we can go and work

independently, send an independent person to work with all of the parties, to

identify the issues. Because I am sure, as the member opposite may or may not

know, there are a number of issues involved, many of which have nothing to do

with money, many of which have to do with actual issues around regionalization,

around the whole issue of medical advisory committees and the establishment of

bylaws.

Mr. Speaker, with the help and consultation of the Member for

Burin-Placentia West, as well as my colleague from Grand Bank, they have been

working with the parties and they have been intervening to try to put in place a

process. We have identified a number of outside people who would be willing to

go forward to do that kind of assessment analysis and make recommendations to me

that we will try to use to alleviate these difficulties and put the process back

on track.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader, a

supplementary.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister, the people I have spoken with as late as today -

this morning - are so frustrated now with the representation, they are just

utterly disgusted. They want results.

I want to ask the minister - she said they are looking at

identifying the issues. I want to ask the minister: Is it only now, after two

meetings with the Peninsula board, and for months this has been brewing? Did I

hear correctly, I want to ask the minister, that they are working on identifying

the issues? I am sure Hansard will bear that out.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and

Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Whenever you are dealing with an issue, there is always more

than one side and one perspective; and there are a number of parties. So what I

have done is asked a number of people to put their names forward, which will be

agreed upon by all of the parties down there. They can put forward all of their

issues.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, I am very much aware of the six issues that

they put forward but I also understand there are other issues by some of the

other parties that also need to be addressed. This would be an opportunity for

all of the parties involved to put forward their issues to an independent person

who can look at what they are and make recommendations, and also to try to help

all of the parties come to a resolution of those outstanding issues.

Mr. Speaker, you have to get all of the information and I

think it is important. I also think it is very important that all of the parties

have an opportunity to present it to a person or people they see as independent,

outside of the region, who can offer some assistance to them as well as make

recommendations to me for action.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader, a

supplementary.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

You are forcing the people out there by the back door, the

minister knows full well.

The effects of the MOU that was signed last fall are starting

to filter through the system and we are now seeing an unprecedented number of

medical specialists leaving our Province.

Last Friday, I mentioned five at the Janeway have gone in the

last few months. I have heard just in the last couple of days, the exodus

continues. The Health Care Corporation, there is a GI specialist leaving, a

kidney specialist, five pathologists -possibly six - are going right now, within

the next month, here in the city.

Minister, specialist positions are opening up all over this

country -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the hon. member that he is on a supplementary; I ask

him to get to his question.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

- and they are paying not only better wages but they have

better working conditions.

That MOU did not deliver what doctors expected, and they are

starting to vote with their feet. The flood gates have opened, Minister. I want

to ask you: Do you realize the significance of those departures? What are you

doing to correct those problems?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and

Community Services.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We have been working very hard with all of the parties. We

have had very great levels of success in some areas in recruitment. We have

maintained some difficulties in other areas.

I know the member opposite would like to paint a picture of

Newfoundland in isolation but, as he knows or perhaps would be very hesitant to

admit, many of our other provincial colleagues are identifying exactly the same

problems and challenges we are experiencing.

We know that in places, even in rural Ontario and Alberta,

not to mention in Nova Scotia, they are also having difficulties.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is an issue right across the country. We are working very

actively to try to resolve these issues, and I would like to quote from

physicians themselves: Money is only part of the issue. The lifestyle component

is the other issue. So we have to work with all the parties to address that.

There is a reality, and that reality is that we have a

certain ability to pay and we remain committed to living within that ability to

pay. That is why we are working with those groups.

We are looking at models - for example the clustering model -

which is one that has worked very effectively across Quebec, and we believe it

is working very well. We have a good demonstration project working in the

Clarenville area, and we are also looking now to broaden that to other areas of

the Province - namely, Bonavista and other parts of the various other

peninsulas.

Mr. Speaker, we are working. I do not ever expect the member

opposite to acknowledge that in any way, because I am sure he would not be able

to do that, but I have to give the information and say that we are working

actively to recruit and we will continue to do so.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for

the Minister of Education.

On Monday, Minister, you said that if, I guess, I could show

that there was an impact on programming - a negative impact on programming -

coming up in September of 1999, if you could see hard proof that programs in

many of our schools in this Province are in serious jeopardy, that you would

act.

In Riverwood Academy, Wing's Point, a cut of one full

teaching unit means - besides, now, the recent losses in the last couple of

years of industrial arts, drama, home economics, art, music in junior and senior

high, primary French, besides these - the school principal now is faced with a

dilemma. It is a K-XII school.

Will the principal take music in K-VI? Will the principal

take phys ed in K-III, or will that principal remove at least ten credits from

the senior high? Minister, is this the type of impact that you are looking for

in order for you to act?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, let me say at the outset that it

certainly is not realistic to expect, if you see a decline of 4,200 students out

of the school system in any one year, that you would not see a reduction in

teaching force as well.

We have chosen - and I will say it again - we have chosen to

leave 236 positions in the system at a cost of $11.8 million so we would not see

that type of impact.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Education and training

determines the curriculum that will ensure that students in our system, at the

end of the day, have the requirements to graduate from high school and be able

to enter any post-secondary institution. That is our responsibility and one that

we live up to.

If boards out there are doing something or schools are doing

something that makes that impossible then I would be very concerned about that;

because boards must ensure, with the resources they are given, that our students

are able to take the required number of programs to be able to enter

post-secondary institutions.

As a department, we determine the curriculum that is required

in the system. There are other courses being offered out there, some being

funded by HRD. Now, certainly you do not expect the provincial government to

take responsibility for ensuring that those programs continue at the end of the

day.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for

Harbour Main-Whitbourne.

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, again, to get back to the

main part of my question, without

preamble: What will the minister tell the

parents of St. Francis Xavier School in Grand Falls-Windsor, this is K-VI, when

their class sizes next year will increase because of the loss of three teacher

units, their class sizes... This is not secondary, this is not regulation for

university, this is K-VI. You are going to have increased class sizes; you are

going to have special services for exceptional children cut back because of the

loss of a half teacher unit; the learning resources program is going to be

chopped in half. Again, Minister, is this the impact that you are looking for in

order for you to act?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I would be concerned as a parent

if that was what I was being told by principals and teachers out in the system,

that that was the impact. We do not know that is going to be the impact.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS FOOTE: That is precisely why we are meeting with the

education directors, bearing in mind again that the department sets the

curriculum; and we know what courses are being offered out there, as determined

by the department. If a board or a school - because in a lot of cases schools

will introduce programs themselves - has introduced programs into the system,

you cannot expect the department to be responsible for making sure that every

course that is developed has a teacher paid for out of the provincial Treasury.

Mr. Speaker, we have to be able to provide teachers within

our ability to pay. I will say that, again, this Province puts more money into

education based on our ability to pay, which is based on our GDP, than any other

province in this country.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Harbour

Main-Whitbourne.

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, again, one last example

today; that makes three. In my teaching experience, if you go through it three

times, they learn.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: At Bishop O'Neill Colligate, Brigus - I am

very familiar with Bishop O'Neill Colligate - there are currently three streams

Again, Minister, I ask you how you can explain to the parents

of Bishop O'Neill Colligate when the principal next year has to make the choice

between cutting out one of those streams - either doing that - multi-grading

either the language and the academic math courses, or look at cutting courses.

Last year World History was introduced; now it is going to be dropped simply

because that school has lost two teacher units.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. HEDDERSON: Again, Minister, is this the reform in

programming that we were promised? When are you going to act to make sure that

the programming in September of 1999 is on the same level as the program in the

current school year, Minister, please?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, obviously if he was a good teacher

he would only have to say it once, so I would not fault the listener. I listen

very well. It has more to do with the individual on the other side.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, having said that, clearly we would

be concerned about any impact on the quality of education or the variety of the

curriculum if it impacted on a student's ability to get through the system

where, at the end of the day, they were not in a position to graduate.

That is what our obligation as a government is. The

department determines the curriculum that will enable our students to graduate

and compete with the best in the world, once they have gone through

post-secondary institutions as well.

Mr. Speaker, I have said and I will say it again, we are

going to meet with all of the education directors. We want to discuss with them

how they are allocating the teachers that we have put into the system. We have

put an additional 236 teachers back into the system. We have seen a significant

decline in student enrolment. In fact, if you want to look at the enrolment in

the Province, in the past two years it has declined by 8.1 per cent. The number

of teachers has declined by 5.8 per cent.

If you want to look at a correlation there, as a government

we have ensured that there are more than enough teachers in the system to teach

the curriculum that is required to ensure that our students can graduate and

enter any post-secondary institution.

Mr. Speaker, just to a point that was made yesterday by the

hon. member's leader, when he suggested that in District 5 - and again this

conflicts with the information that we have, which again goes back to the need

for us to meet with the education directors - when they talked about a reduction

in teachers being 20 per cent compared to a 10 per cent reduction in the student

employment, those are not the figures we have. In fact, we have seen an

enrolment decline in students at 10.6 per cent and a decline in teachers at 9.2

per cent.

That is a very good reason, and a reason why we must meet

with all of the education directors, to try and again determine how they are

allocating the resources they are given.

A number of factors come into it -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister to conclude her answer.

MS FOOTE: - about whether or not a particular course can

be offered. Whether or not you can offer a chemistry lab depends upon if you

have the laboratory facilities.

There are a number of issues, not just the number of

students.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister to conclude her answer.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, we are looking at this very

carefully.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St.

Mary's.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions today are for the Minister of Tourism, Culture

and Recreation.

I find it very fitting that we just had an announcement on

Tourism Awareness Week. During the recent provincial Budget, this government

announced that the tourism marketing budget for this Province would be increased

from $1.8 million to $ 3.6 million annually. We all agree that strategic

marketing is a very important tool in tourism development.

Having been involved in the tourism industry for many years,

I also know the importance that the Newfoundland and Labrador travel guide plays

in promoting and advertising businesses in this Province. People from all over

the world use this guide when planning their vacation.

I want to ask the minister why the Newfoundland and Labrador

tourism guide was still in the boxes on the last day of March of this year,

while tourism guides for Nova Scotia and New Brunswick were being spread

throughout the world in January and February?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture

and Recreation.

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, the proof is always in the

pudding. When you look at the numbers, and you look at how tourism has done - I

also have to commend the former Minister of Tourism, because - listen to these

numbers.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FUREY: In the first quarter of this year, which is

the winter season, which is a difficult time when numbers are normally down -

listen to this: non-resident auto movements in the first quarter are up 25.9 per

cent.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FUREY: Scheduled air traffic movement is up 26 per

cent in the first quarter.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FUREY: Chartered air traffic in this Province is up

61 per cent in the first quarter.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FUREY: Car rentals across the Province are up 19.4

per cent this first quarter.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. FUREY: Occupancy levels are up 15 per cent in the

first quarter.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FUREY: Occupancy rates just in the metro area are up

11 per cent. Conventions are projected to be up over 10 per cent again this

year.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FUREY: Cruise ships lines are projected to be up over

15 per cent.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, maybe we do not need to take them

out of the box.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for

Placentia & St. Mary's.

MR. MANNING: I would say, Mr. Speaker, it is time a lot

of the things came out of the box, on that side of the House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MANNING: I say, thank God for the Winter Games, I say

to the minister.

I want to refer to a letter I received from two bed and

breakfast operators in Corner Brook, from the Adams House and the River House

Inn - where the Winter Games were held - where this minister received a fax on

April 5, telling the minister that these two small operators had spent $6,000 on

placing an ad in the travel guide for this coming season; $6,000 to place an ad

in the travel guide to promote their business. When they went looking for the

travel guide on the last week in March, they were told by Destination

Newfoundland - on the first week of April, I am sorry - that the magazines were

only released just last week.

These people have received numerous calls from people

throughout the states and in other parts of Canada looking for the tourism ad,

trying to find information on travelling to Newfoundland this year, and they do

not have it.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to get to his supplementary.

MR. MANNING: I would say, Mr. Speaker, that these

companies are out $6,000. They have lost business and I ask the minister: Will

he do the right thing, as the letter stated, and compensate these businesses for

a mistake that your department made?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture

and Recreation.

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, I forgot to thank the hon. member

for his question and his maiden speech.

The truth of the matter is that people advertise in this

first-rate tourism guide which goes around the world and we have had little or

no complaints. I have had none. I do not know if the former ministers had any.

We instituted this travel guide, as you know, back in 1991.

It is a first-class, first-rate piece of literature which is a cooperative

piece. Businesses put in: Marine Atlantic, bed and breakfasts, others.

I met with the mayor, who is sitting in the gallery today,

from Grand Falls-Windsor, who has a superb ad in there which was misplaced -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. FUREY: It was parked in the wrong place. He told me

about it. We acknowledge the mistake, we apologize, and we are going to place it

in the correct area free of charge next time around. We will deal with each case

as it comes forward.

There is no disputing the statistics. This industry is on the

right path. The former minister put it on the right path, this minister will

keep it on the right path, and we are going to grow despite the hon. member's

silliness.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for

Placentia-St. Mary's.

MR. MANNING: Mr. Speaker, I asked the minister to do two

things in light of his answer that time. Number one: Would he have the courtesy

to respond to the April 5 letter that was faxed to him from the two bed and

breakfast operators? Number two: Will he place this ad in next year's tourism

guide free of charge for these private businesses?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture

and Recreation.

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, I will look at each case on its

own merit.

As I said to the hon. member today, and I was happy enough to

admit, when there are mistakes we correct them. The Mayor from Grand

Falls-Windsor pointed out a mistake. They had a fabulous ad. It was misplaced

accidentally, at the printers, in the wrong place. We will adjust that. We will

put it in the correct place, because it is a good ad. It is a great part of our

Province and we want to promote Central Newfoundland and do the right thing.

That is what we want to do, the right thing. Each case -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) the letter.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. FUREY: We have Jack in the box, one in the box and

one out of the box.

Mr. Speaker, we will do the right thing in each case, on its

own merit, in its own set of circumstances. We will evaluate it and do the right

thing, as we always do.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is to the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

I ask the minister if Seafreez, a Newfoundland company that was interested in

taking over S.C.B Fisheries back in December of 1998, if this company is still

interested in taking over this operation in Bay d'Espoir?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and

Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: No, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for

Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I ask the minister if any new operator, or if the present

operators, will be responsible for paying back any of the $20 million to the

government and the taxpayers of this Province that has been put into this

operation up to this date?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and

Aquaculture.

Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: (Inaudible), Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for

Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I say to members opposite, the $20 million of taxpayers money

is no big joke.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FITZGERALD: Mr. Speaker, there is nothing

hypothetical about $20 million.

I ask the minister if it is his intention, or will the

minister admit today, that there is nobody today, other than the present owners,

interested in taking over S.C.B Fisheries? Would the minister also admit today

that the $20 million being put in to this operation is going to go back to the

present owners and the present owners will be the people that continue to

operate this particular industry, after spending $20 million of taxpayers money

since 1985?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and

Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: Mr. Speaker -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible), Tom Rideout, 1985,

(inaudible)!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: Mr. Speaker, 50 per cent of the question I

will answer, 50 per cent I will leave to the hon. Member for Lewisporte to

answer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. EFFORD: Because we did not put all the money in. Half

of the money was put in by the former government. Who will operate S.C.B.

Fisheries in the future?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible)!

MR. EFFORD: Created? We just inherited the mess. We have

worked with the company down there. We have overcome a lot of the problems and

found out a lot of problems in the actual overall operations of S.C.B.

Fisheries. We have applied certain conditions before securities will be released

from the Bay d'Espoir - the company in Bay d'Espoir, the responsibility to owing

the monies to the taxpayers of the Province. When and if those certain

conditions are met we will release the security. If the conditions are not met

we will hold security on S.C.B. operations. Who will operate it in the future?

That will be determined by the present shareholders of S.C.B. Fisheries. We have

backed off totally from the operations.

My assistant deputy minister is back in his office. We no

longer sit on the board down there whatsoever. If and when they meet the

conditions then S.C.B. Fisheries will move forward. I like to think positive,

Mr. Speaker, that that operation will be there for the long term, not the short

term.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Question Period has ended.

Answers to Questions

For which Notice has been Given

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and

Community Services.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday there was a clear impression left here in the House

by the Member for St. John's West that a child may be in fact in danger because

a social worker would choose not to follow up because it would not be seen as a

priority issue.

Although I asked the member opposite for information, and

still to this point in time did not get the information from the Member for St.

John's West, I was very concerned. So concerned in fact that I left immediately

after Question Period and called the St. John's Health Care board, and also

members of my own department, to find out in fact if they knew anything about

this, even though I had no name and not many details.

I was also quite concerned because the member opposite had

said yesterday, and I quote, that she had made "repeated calls" to my

department. With respect to this particular incident I was quite concerned.

While nobody in my department had any discussions with the Member for St. John's

West on this issue, I did call an official at the St. John's Health Care board

and suggested that perhaps if they called the Member for St. John's West they

might get more information to allay our concerns about this potential case of a

child.

So it does seem, from what I have understood from my

officials at the St. John's Health Care board, that in fact the Member for St.

John's West is not concerned about this particular child. I also understand as

well that the official spoke about the professional role of the social worker in

this issue, and also that when a family court order is enforced it is not the

social worker who enforces it. In fact, he or she would report if that has been

broken to the police and they will follow up on that matter.

Mr. Speaker, I wanted to have in the record today, for this

House, that the safety of the child was not the issue of this particular

incident. I can also reassure members that the child is safe and that those

concerns have been allayed.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Before we move on to Petitions, the Chair

would like to welcome to the House today a former Member of the House of

Assembly, Melvin Penney, from the District of Lewisporte.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Orders of the Day

Private Members' Day

MR. SPEAKER: It is Private Member's Day. I believe it is

the hon. Member for Bellevue who will be presenting the motion on behalf of the

Member for Burin-Placentia West.

The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, it is indeed a pleasure for me

today to rise in this hon. House on behalf of the hon. Member for

Burin-Placentia West to present probably one of the most important, if not the

most important, resolutions to ever be presented to this hon. House.

The hon. member is regrettably not able to attend today

because of some family matters. I am sure that if she was here today that she

would speak with much greater passion and much greater commitment than I could

ever do justice to on this resolution. I am sure that her heart and spirit are

with me today.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. BARRETT: I do not operate the mike system. Thank you.

Today, I present the following resolution. The resolution

that we are presenting today reads:

"WHEREAS the shipbuilding industry has long been a core

element in Canada's industrial growth strategy, creating and sustaining high

quality skills-driven jobs with world wide expertise in this vitally important

sector;

"AND

WHEREAS the shipbuilding industry has been an important

component of our provincial economy;

"AND

WHEREAS other countries have continued to provide

financial incentives and maintain significant trade barriers to protect their

shipbuilding industry, eliminating the possibility of an international level

playing field;

"THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this hon. House strongly

endorse a national shipbuilding strategy to be undertaken by the Government of

Canada that will provide certain measures in support of a strong and

internationally competitive shipbuilding industry similar to the shipbuilding

policy in place in the United States of America as advocated by leaders of this

industry."

Mr. Speaker, I speak to this hon. House today with some very

grave concern for an industry that has been a very important part of our past,

an industry that should be, and has to be, an important part of our future, an

industry that has been the lifeblood of the Burin Peninsula from its earliest

days of settlement.

Before addressing the problems facing every shipyard in

Canada today I will relate to this hon. House, if I may, a little of the history

of the shipbuilding on the Burin Peninsula, some of which has the highest

standards of documentation.

In a British parliamentary report of 1720 it was stated that

by this date most of the Poole vessels prosecuting the fishery in Newfoundland

and Labrador were built in the colony. In 1718, Christopher Spurrier, from

Poole, Dorset, England, established a shipbuilding business in Burin, which he

later extended to St. Lawrence and to the Island of Oderin in Placentia Bay.

All types of vessels were built including brigs, barges, and

all full-rigged ships. The Spurriers were not the first builders on the

Peninsula, for this is evident in the fact that the skills required to build

ships were already present here when that operation first began in a place known

as Ship Cove, in the present-day Burin.

In and about the year 1830 the Member for Burin-Placentia

West's great-grandfather, with his five sons, moved from Rock Harbour to

Marystown and began the construction of fishing vessels in Mortier Bay Proper -

since named Marystown, after the Member for Burin-Placentia West. The first boat

was named The Persevere , reflecting the struggle for survival at that

time in history. They build several other vessels including The Five Brothers ,

and finally, a reflection of better times, The Prosperity .

Other ocean-going vessels were constructed for the merchants

of the day by the Mitchell Brothers in an area of Marystown known as Mitchell's

Cove.

AN HON. MEMBER: Are you reading that?

MR. BARRETT: No, Mr. Speaker, I'm using copious notes. I

would call to the attention of all members of the House that this is a very

serious resolution. I will not be joking about this matter this afternoon.

The stern schooners were popular in Nova Scotia in the last

half of the nineteen century. Between 1910 and 1935 five such vessels were built

in Marystown at Stapleton's Point, a very favourite boat building area of that

period.

The next step in the evolution of the shipbuilding industry

in Marystown came with the building of the magnetic mine sweepers on the site

where the Friede Goldman shipyard is now located. To the best of my knowledge,

they were the first warships to be constructed in Newfoundland and were

delivered in 1942.

In 1949, shipbuilding again returned to Marystown with the

building of the Alberta Wareham , a very popular boat in Placentia Bay. I

saw it in my boyhood many days sailing into the harbour in Woody Island. The

registry of ships described this vessel as being 134.1 feet in length, 27.3 feet

in beam and 12.2 feet in depth.

The beach, as the area where shipbuilding was traditionally

carried out in Marystown, gained prominence that same year when the Government

of Newfoundland and Labrador established a wood ship building centre there to

build long-liners for the South and West Coast fisheries. A number of fine

vessels were delivered from this yard under the direction of a master builder,

Max Grandy from Grand Bank.

Before the last vessels were delivered and constructed, work

began on the Marystown Shipyard in 1966. The shipyard was built by the Liberal

government of the day with the intent of building fishing trawlers to serve the

needs of the offshore fishery, more especially the Atlantic fish processing

plant, now Fishery Products International, which, incidently, was constructed in

the same year through the efforts of a Liberal government. These two main

industries basically sustained the whole of the Burin Peninsula to this very

day.

While the purpose of speaking to this resolution is not to

dwell on our past accomplishments, one must have an understanding of our

shipbuilding history to appreciate the depth of the expertise of our workforce

and their outstanding abilities that have earned them worldwide recognition for

their shipbuilding accomplishments.

The former Marystown Shipyard, now the Friede Goldman

International, is one of the best equipped and the most efficient shipbuilding

and repair facility of its size in North America. It is also considered to be

one of the most experienced shipyards in Canada in the building and servicing of

anchor handling supply and diving support supply vessels for use worldwide.

In addition to the designing and the construction of new

vessels, the Yard provides fast and efficient repair, refit and service

facilities. Most of all, the Burin Peninsula can boast of one of the best

trained and experienced shipbuilding workforces to be found anywhere in the

world today.

Another feature which sets the Marystown Shipyard apart from

other comparable shipyards in Canada is that it is an enclosed operation with

steel preparation, assembly and erection, and two 76-meter building berths all

under one roof, allowing work to proceed uninterrupted day and night regardless

of the weather. The Yard also has a synchro-lift elevator and a transfer system

which provides fast raising, lowering and movement of vessels in both

construction and repair operations.

In addition to the established facilities at the Yard for

construction and ship repair, the Cow Head facility was developed in more recent

years to serve as an oil rig servicing base and steel fabrication centre. Just

last month Friede Goldman Newfoundland announced consolidation of its operations

at the Cow Head facility in order to make their operation more competitive. That

decision was necessary because of the reduced volume of work available in the

shipyard and ship repair.

The decision by the Terra Nova alliance last December to

cancel the project for the refit of the semi-submersible drill rig, the Terra

Nova Trans-Ocean Explorer, was a major blow. The contract would have provided

substantial person hours for 1999.

The move from the Marystown operation to the Cow Head

facility is a temporary move, and the decision is based on the fact that Cow

Head is a more modern and more cost-efficient operation than the shipyard.

There are trades required in the shipbuilding industry which

will be in less demand in the steel fabrication industry. This is a real concern

for people such as joiners and for people in other shipbuilding trades. Some of

these people have offered as much as thirty years of shipbuilding expertise in

the workforce at the Yard. Last year, employment levels at the Yard peaked at

over 1,100, the highest in its history, and Friede Goldman Newfoundland are

still hopeful of meeting their commitment of 1.2 million person hours again this

year. However, most of the work which Friede Goldman has on their books is in

the area of steel fabrication and not in ship construction. The company is

aggressively seeking contracts for construction repair with some success but

there is a real concern among the workers that some trades, such as the joiners'

trade, may be negatively impacted.

Shipbuilding is an important regional manufacturing industry,

not just in Marystown, but in other parts of our Province, as well as many

regions in Canada. It provides thousands of badly needed, well-paid jobs in some

of the hardest hit regions of our country. It contributes to the maintenance of

important skills and industrial capacities that are vital to our well-being as a

major coastal and seafaring nation.

I might add that if we had the same problem in the car and

aerospace industries I'm sure the federal government would take the necessary

steps to ensure that these industries would be viable, and have in past. Since

1990 the Canadian shipbuilding industry has been cut more than half. Over 7,000

jobs have disappeared. This means a loss of over $250 million in direct wages

each year, not counting the economic losses in supply and spinoff industries. It

is a given that for every one direct job lost in the shipbuilding industry there

are two or more jobs lost in the local economy.

We need a shipbuilding policy in Canada in order to ensure

that we receive a fair share of shipbuilding orders on the global market. Other

countries offer a variety of supports, everything from loan guarantees of up to

87 per cent for owners wishing to construct ships or oil rigs in their

shipyards, to legislation requiring that goods and services must be delivered in

vessels owned by that country.

We need a shipbuilding policy that addresses loan guarantees,

that would assist the vessel purchaser to reduce and spread out the financing

costs associated with the investment. We need a policy that addresses the

relaxation of tax treatment for vessel leasing similar to tax treatments which

already exist in many other transportation industries, including the railcar and

the truck and trailer industry. This policy should address possible refundable

tax credits modelled on the Quebec program that would help defray the upfront

costs associated with the construction of new vessels or major refit projects,

and possible trade and tariff policies specifically designed to protect Canadian

interests in our shipbuilding policy.

We need to combine our efforts with all stakeholders in the

shipbuilding industry to ensure the survival of this vital industry, thus

ensuring employment and job security and the stability for our skilled

workforce. I recommend all involved in the campaign to promote a shipbuilding

policy for Canada and I urge all members of this hon. House to support the most

needed policy.

As a member representing the Burin Peninsula, which has one

of the finest shipyards on the Eastern Seaboard, as well as a skilled workforce

that have proven many times over that they are second to none, I urgently

request the support of all members of this House today on this very important

resolution.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER (Oldford): The hon. the Member for Conception

Bay South.

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to take a few minutes this afternoon to speak on

the motion that is put forward by my colleague the Member for Burin-Placentia

West, as presented by her colleague the parliamentary assistant to the Premier.

There are several things I would like to say on this

particular motion. I would like to quote from the motion itself. It says:

"THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this hon. House strongly

endorse a national shipbuilding strategy to be undertaken by the Government of

Canada that will provide certain measures in support of a strong and

internationally competitive shipbuilding industry as advocated by the leaders of

this industry."

I have absolutely no problem in supporting that particular

position. As a matter of fact -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FRENCH: I might go along with that too, I say to the

Government House Leader.

As a matter of fact, I have had the opportunity since

becoming the critic for Industry, Trade and Technology to travel to Marystown to

meet with the management people at Friede Goldman Newfoundland Limited, and as

well to meet with Mr. Jerome Walsh, the president of the local down there. To

say that we had very interesting meetings would be putting it quite mildly.

I would like to say that this yard now has become I guess,

for all intents and purposes, a repair yard. I do not really know how much time

and effort the company are using to bid for ship building projects. I have no

idea of their policy or their program as it relates to shipbuilding.

I can only say that I believe it was yesterday in the House

of Commons the Member for Saint John, Ms Elsie Wayne, presented a motion in the

the shipbuilding industry in Canada.

In her address yesterday to the House of Commons, Ms Wayne

said: Shipbuilding in Canada is now at its lowest point. Right now in Canada it

employs in Canada roughly 4,000 people across this country, and from spinoff

jobs roughly another 4,000 people. In its heyday, this particular workforce

employed approximately 20,000 people. There are approximately 20,000 people

today out of work because of our shipbuilding policy in this country. That is

certainly wrong.

The company at Marystown are certainly promoting a ship

building policy in Canada. The union in Marystown are certainly promoting a ship

building policy in Canada. I would support our government going to the federal

government in Ottawa and saying it is time that we had in Canada a national ship

building policy so that we can compete, or at least be on some kind of a level

playing field, with some of the European, Asian and American markets, which we

are not on today.

In conversation with Friede Goldman Newfoundland Limited,

they said that they did not have to receive the total subsidies that some of

these European and Asian countries are receiving to be competitive, but it would

be nice if we had some kind of a ship building policy in Canada, which we do not

have today.

Back in the days when the government was in opposition - this

was the Conservative Government in Ottawa - the minister who is now the present

Liberal Minister of (inaudible) was the transport critic. He claimed back then

that the issue of a revamped modern ship building policy was of utmost priority.

This sentiment was echoed by the current Prime Minister when of course he was in

opposition. I quote from one of those letters. The Prime Minister, when he was

in opposition, said: It is safe to say that most people recognize that something

needs to be done to create a much needed competitive ship building industry.

That is from the present Prime Minister of Canada. I ask today, where is the

Prime Minister of Canada when it comes to this very pressing need?

As well, yesterday in the House of Commons a colleague, Mr.

Bill Matthews who is the Member for Burin St. George's, spoke out in support of

this very same policy. Mr. Matthews said: As we speak, a campaign is being

organized by the marine workers union and by the CAW across this country to have

some impact on the federal government to participate in an industry. In other

words, to create a national ship building policy. We have to do it. If places

like Marystown - and we are not talking about different parts of our Province

where there are boats built all the time, where there are smaller boats. We are

not talking those. We are talking about the ship building industry.

It is interesting to note that in the Unites States of

America the Americans guarantee through legislation that ships and other marine

crafts must be built in the United States, and goods and services must be

delivered in U.S. vessels. The U.S. Government has a loan guarantee of up to 87

per cent for owners wishing to construct ships or oil rigs in its yards. That is

the kind of support that the American government is giving to their yards in the

United States. That is maybe why we are unable to attract some of this

particular work in Canada.

I noticed in a part of what Ms Wayne had to say as well

yesterday in the House of Commons that a shipbuilder in her district, in New

Brunswick, has bid on fifty jobs in the ship building industry and has not come

close to one single job. So we have to have some form of a policy in this

country of ours.

Lease financing has become a predominant method of financing,

a significant capital investment to many Canadian industries, but Revenue

Canada's current tax treatment of lease expense in the shipbuilding industry

makes it an unattractive option for most purchasers of Canadian-made vessels.

Our own government, our own federal policy, makes it unattractive. The Canadian

government must do what it can to level the playing field in our industry. A

Canada-wide shipbuilding campaign spearheaded by the ship building union and

others is well underway and we are very pleased with the support to date from

our own Province.

I am not going to take any more time this afternoon to speak

on this particular motion, only to say that I fully intend to support this

motion. Our caucus fully intends to support this motion this afternoon, and we

would ask the government to urge their counterparts in Ottawa to get on. The

time for talking is over with. We have a ship building facility in Marystown

that is second to none, but the Yard was not built to do repairs. We are going

to close Marystown Shipyard and ship everything out to Cow Head to be done. This

creates much discussion, much anguish among the union in Marystown, because

their fear, and I guess I have the same fear, is that once it closes we may

never get it reopened. That is a fear that is very prominent.

So I urge the government today to support the motion - we are

going to support this motion - and that we send it to Ottawa as quickly as

possible and ask the federal government to immediately invoke some kind of a

ship building policy right across our country.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, this is a very important issue,

certainly for my district, but certainly for the Province as a whole. Since a

large number of my constituents actually work at the Marystown Shipyard I know

the impact that closing any part of that facility or losing any work can have,

not just on the employees at the shipyard but on their families.

When you look at the workforce down there, and it is a very

dedicated workforce, they have been there, some of them, since the facility

opened, and looked to retire from that facility at the end of the day. What has

happened down there in the last couple of years, well, it has been kind of like

a roller coaster for them. They have found themselves in very difficult

circumstances when the work was not available to them or available to the Yard

to continue and ensure that they had a steady rate of employment.

What we are seeing down there now are several attempts to try

and work with the company, work with the municipalities and work with the

government to try and attract work to the Yard, but it is difficult to attract

work to a facility when you are faced with the kind of competition they are

faced with; not just from other countries but from within Canada, even looking

close to home, like in Nova Scotia, for instance, where the government there is

quite prepared to put up loan guarantees. That is an issue because at the end of

the day that causes unfair competition for people and businesses in Newfoundland

and Labrador. It certainly has caused unfair competition for Friede Goldman

Newfoundland.

What we would like to see is a national ship building policy,

one that can be seen to be applied equally across the country, one that will

take into account the difficulties that ship building industries in this country

have when competing with companies in Norway or in other parts of the world.

One of the issues for us, just if you look at Atlantic Canada

and look at what our sister provinces are doing in terms of loan guarantees, the

issue there for us is that whether or not we allow ships that are built, with

such loan guarantees, to actually operate in Newfoundland waters, and whether or

not we should be asking the C-NOPB to look closely at this, because this is

unfair competition again for Newfoundland companies.

It is unfortunate we have seen the decline in oil prices. We

all know the impact that has had on shipbuilding. We know that it has

essentially resulted in the fact that fewer facilities are being built, fewer

rigs are being built, much less work is being done. We are hoping now with the

oil prices on the rise again that we will see a change in that situation and

that Friede Goldman Newfoundland will be able to access or see some of the work

that Friede Goldman International has being diverted, in fact, to its facility

in Marystown.

There are measure that can be taken. I think in other

provinces, certainly in New Brunswick, where they are finding themselves in a

similar situation, and in other parts of the country, that there are measures

that can be taken by the federal government to address this very serious issue,

an issue that impacts on people in this Province but, as well, on the government

and the economic needs of this Province.

We need to have a policy that will ensure we can compete on a

worldwide basis for work, that we can compete on a fair and balanced basis, and

that we do not have to, when we go out there, worry about whether or not we are

even in the ballpark when it comes to bidding for work. That has always been an

issue for us and continues to be an issue for us. Certainly if you ask the

people at Friede Goldman Newfoundland what kind of response they get when they

go out into the field and try to acquire work for the shipyard in Marystown,

they will tell you they are asked: What do you have to offer us? What kind of

tariffs are in place? What kind of policy do you have that will enable us to

build a particular boat or a ship or a rig that will see you will be able to

compete with other countries and other facilities throughout the world?

We would like to see all of the parties in Ottawa come

together and recognize that this is a major concern for this Province, and for

the people in this Province who make a living in the ship building industry. We

are hoping that not only will the Liberal government be involved, but all of the

other parties there - the PC Party, the NDP, and the Reform Party - will all

come on side and support a national shipbuilding policy, so that at the end of

the day we are able to compete on a worldwide basis for much needed work.

What has happened as a result of the falling oil prices, and

what has happened as a result of the shipyard not being able to attract work as

a result of that, is that we have seen a high unemployment rate on the Burin

Peninsula. There are a number of reasons of course for this, one certainly being

the loss of work at the Marystown Shipyard. In fact, I would say that today we

probably have the highest rate of unemployment in any area of this Province, on

the Burin Peninsula. A lot of it can be attributed to what has happened with the

Marystown Shipyard.

It is through no fault of the employees; it is certainly

through no fault of the company itself. They have certainly been out there

trying to acquire work. The employees have been working diligently. The

employees have given in terms of their contracts to try and make sure they are,

again, part of the solution and not part of the problem. We have hard-working

employees down there who recognize that we all have to work in partnership if we

are to actually build the industry. The management, the owners of the company

down there, the employees themselves, and the municipalities down there, the

local leaders, have all worked together in partnership to try and strengthen

that facility. Having done that, it then becomes a very difficult task for them

when they say: We have done everything we can do, but we are still up against

unfair competition.

We have spoken to others, and I commend the local union down

there for the initiative they have taken, and how they have raised the profile

of this need down there, and how they have spoken out and brought their case to

anyone who would listen to them, including mayors of the larger cities. I

commend the union for their efforts and for their postcard campaign they have

initiated to make sure everybody is speaking out on this issue, and that they

are making sure they are being heard. I commend the local union on that

initiative.

I think we need to work with them. We need to bring whatever

pressure we can to bear to make sure that they are being heard at the federal

level of government, that in fact when they go to Ottawa, and when we make

representation to Ottawa, they are listened to. Because they have enough support

behind them, and they have people speaking out and supporting the position they

have annunciated. They are very anxious to make sure they have total support for

this particular policy.

I think if anyone was to stop and reflect on the importance

of the oil industry to the Newfoundland economy, it is certainly crucial that we

work hand-in-hand with Marystown Shipyard, with Friede Goldman Newfoundland,

with the union, with the management, with the local municipalities, to make sure

their voice is heard, because at the end of the day it is not just the Burin

Peninsula economy that is impacted by this but the economy of the entire

Province. A national ship building policy is the only way to go if we are able

to compete with others throughout the world who are looking to build on and take

advantage of this industry.

The federal government says what they have been doing is

sufficient. They have a number of programs in place they feel is sufficient. We

would like to tell them that when put up against what other countries are doing,

and what other provinces are doing, it is not sufficient. We want to make the

case, we would like to do it as an all-Party resolution, to put forward a

resolution that says we call on the federal government and all parties to fully

support a national shipbuilding policy that will put us in the position where we

can compete for the work out there, and we can ensure that our people have

employment opportunities in an industry that can be a very vibrant industry in

this Province if we let it be.

Again, I go back to the idea of what our sister provinces are

doing. People speak to loan guarantees, and maybe that is one way for us to go,

but I would rather speak to a national shipbuilding policy than single out

provinces where we are competing with each other, unfairly. Let the policy be a

straightforward one, let it be a national policy, and may the best person win

when it comes to putting forward a tender for a particular job.

I fully support the union at the Marystown Shipyard. I

certainly support the company in their call for a national shipbuilding policy.

I congratulate my colleague, the Member for Burin-Placentia West, for taking

this initiative to raise this as a private member's resolution in the House

today. Without her doing that, I would be concerned that it would not have

gotten the attention that it requires from this House. The fact that she has,

clearly speaks to this government's support for a national shipbuilding policy.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Baie Verte.

MR. SHELLEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: I will not be long, I say to the Member for

Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, but I certainly want to stand today and have a few words

of support on behalf of this resolution put forward by the Member for

Burin-Placentia West.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: Yes, I say to the House Leader, I definitely

support it.

Mr. Speaker, I do support it but I do want to make a few

comments on this, especially after listening to the news today from the hon.

member's district, the fact of not just the shipyard going through a roller

coaster ride, as she alluded to when she made her few remarks, but also the

fishing industry in Marystown. Apparently the FPI plant, which has turned to new

technology, will be reducing the workforce by some 200 people, effectively

immediately, according to a news broadcast this morning.

Marystown, the part of the Province with the shipbuilding

industry, has also seen some major turndowns -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SHELLEY: You are interrupting.

Mr. Speaker, I was mentioning that Marystown has seen some

roller coaster rides over the years. This morning I heard announcements that FPI

- and some less 200 workers will be working at that particular plant because of

technology changes and so on with Fishery Products International in that area.

Marystown has certainly gone through many ups and downs. I do

agree with the minister when she talks about the dedicated workforce, the

history of shipbuilding in the Marystown area, and how important it is to this

particular Province especially, I guess, in light of the timing. Here we have an

emerging oil industry taking place in this Province and the adjacency of the

Marystown Shipyard.

We would think that would be a flourishing industry in this

Province. If there was a shipbuilding policy in place, I am willing to bet that

we would see more work from the offshore oil industry going into the shipyard in

Marystown. That is what we should be seeing. That is with the lack of a policy

on shipbuilding, and why we are not seeing it today.

The statistics, the very simple statistics, of what is

happening in the shipbuilding industry: In 1990, there were some 12,000 people

employed in the shipbuilding industry in Canada; in 1996-1997, those numbers had

dropped to approximately 5,000; in 1998, just last year, somewhere in the

neighbourhood of 4,000. We have dropped from 12,000 to 4,000 in some nine years.

Can you imagine?

Here we are in this Province, and we should be looking at a

flourishing shipbuilding industry alongside our emerging oil and gas industry.

Something is not jiving. Something is not coming on board.

We have a facility in Marystown that was world renowned, had

done some of the best work ever seen in the world, and then somebody mentioned

to me - maybe we should ask this question to Mr. Martin and his shipping

company. I wonder where all those ships are built? Are they built in this

country? That is a question somebody should probably ask.

What we have to get down to in this country and in this

Province is that we have to have a policy in place that gives at least a

fighting chance. That is what I have heard as an argument. They just want a

fighting chance, a fair deal, a better playing level, so that they have a

chance. Then they can prove their work, they can prove their ability, they can

prove their expertise in what they can do in this industry.

As far as this policy, on this side of the House, we

certainly support it wholeheartedly. It will be unanimous. I thank the member

for bringing it forward on behalf of the Member for Burin-Placentia West - did a

very good job and took it very seriously, because it is serious. Also the Member

for Marystown, who knows this firsthand and has spoken on this on many

occasions. I am sure she knows it firsthand because she keeps in touch with

people in the industry, the dedicated workforce that are in Marystown.

Mr. Speaker, as the oil industry emerges in this Province,

and if there is a shipbuilding policy put in place, I think we will see both of

those industries flourish together so that the oil industry does not take off

and leave the shipbuilding industry behind.

I think that if this policy is taken into account in this

country, this Province will benefit immensely. That is why we support that, and

that is why we support the people of Marystown and the shipbuilding industry in

this Province. I can see that happening if we put this policy in place as soon

as possible; because if we do not, it is going to pass us by.

As the industry in this Province emerges - the shipbuilding

industry - if this policy is not implemented soon we may, pardon the pun, miss

the boat or we may miss the ship.

It needs to be done and it needs to be done now. We certainly

support it because it means jobs in this Province. It means another industry

that can provide jobs and, God knows, we need support especially in rural parts

of this Province like Marystown and around this Province. We certainly support

it and endorse it.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today in support of the resolution brought forward by

the Member for Burin-Placentia West. It is a resolution which is long overdue in

this House and I hope that it does get the unanimous support of all members of

the House, all three parties in the House. Certainly I would like to see support

from the government, not just in voting for this resolution but in taking up the

challenge of ensuring and insisting that we have a national shipbuilding policy

in this country.

Mr. Speaker, we have seen, even in the last seven or eight

years, a decline of two-thirds in the number of people employed in Canada in

these jobs, down from 12,000 in 1990 to less than around 4,000 today. That is

something. That is a disgrace for Canada, to see a heavy industry like

shipbuilding - one that also has a tremendous amount of modern technology

associated with it - being destroyed the way it is, being squandered, the

opportunities for jobs in this country. The opportunities, unfortunately, are

not jobs in Central Canada. It is jobs - perhaps some people who run this

country think that the jobs for coastal communities are not as important as jobs

in Central Canada.

We have an aerospace industry. We have gigantic subsidies for

the aerospace industry, but what have we done for the shipbuilding industry? The

federal government has eliminated all direct subsidies to shipbuilding. They

have eliminated them. They have accepted the major imbalance in our trade

relationship with the United States on this issue.

In the United States, they have something called the Jones

Act, and what that says is that you cannot move freight from one port to another

in the United States unless it is on an American ship, owned in America, built

in America, and crewed by Americans. Now these are the great free traders. It is

alright to argue free trade when it comes to imposing their will on the rest of

the world in some industries where they run the show. but in shipbuilding: No,

no we cannot compete in the United States in coastal shipping but they can come

here in Canada, if they will, and do it. So the federal government - no, the

federal government does not do anything - they accept that imbalance.

What are we doing in our offshore? In our offshore this

apply. International competitiveness has to be the order of the day; the only

country in the world in which international competitiveness has to be the rule.

Norway doesn't accept it, the European Union doesn't accept it, the Americans

don't accept it, but Newfoundland and Labrador has to accept it in our offshore.

Why? Because, there is not enough gumption in the governments of this country,

both provincial and national, to say that we want to have, that we insist on

having, our fair share of the action when it comes to development of our

industries and our offshore.

Here we are, stuck out in the North Atlantic, with half of

the shipping in the world passing our way, passing by our shores. What do we

have? The government is watching the Newfoundland Dockyard go down the tubes,

watching it go down the tubes, failing to take advantage of an opportunity where

the Greek investors want to develop a service centre here in Newfoundland and

Labrador. Instead, what happened? Let it go down the tubes, get rid of all the

high-skilled workers and pass the yard over to some friends of the government.

That is what happened to the Newfoundland Dockyard.

What do we have down at Marystown? I have to commend the

government - this government and the previous government - for going well out of

their way, perhaps some people in the rest of the Province might say too far out

of their way, in trying to build a viable shipbuilding industry in this Province

in Marystown.

A lot of public money went into Marystown, into Cow Head and

the Marystown facility, into the building of ferries and boats, sometimes when

it wasn't terribly economic to do so, to try and build a workforce - and keep a

workforce here in this Province - capable of building the best ships in the

world and competing in quality, competing in ability, competing in technology,

competing in design, with any shipyard in the world.

We have done that. We have put a heck of a lot of the

people's money into trying to make that happen. What we need now is political

action on the provincial and federal level, I say to members opposite, not

simply a resolution of this House and not simply some money to make the yards

keep going, which we have done.

What we have to see happen is some people forgetting about

their own personal interests. The Member for Baie Verte mentioned the current

Minister of Finance, Paul Martin. What is his shipbuilding policy? What is the

shipbuilding policy of the Minister of Finance, whose shipping company, Canada

Steamship Limited, flies flags of convenience, operates on flags of convenience?

What about these people? Flags of convenience shippers have built their cost

advantage internationally through tax evasion in this country. They fail to pay

taxes in Canada because they set their companies up in Bermuda, or some tax

haven somewhere else.

They have foreign crews, Filipino crews or Korean crews, or

people who... It is very interesting. Whenever you hear about a ship sinking, a

freighter sinking, you do not ordinarily hear about a North American crew being

lost. You have this big ship that you think is a Canadian ship, it has a

Canadian name, it goes back and forth to Canada, it has been lost at sea, and a

crew of fourteen Filipinos lost.

AN HON. MEMBER: Owned by our own Minister of Finance.

MR. HARRIS: Owned by our own Minister of Finance,

perhaps, if it is a... I do not know. I do not want to say his ships went down.

When you hear about these disasters, you hear about foreign

crews; foreign crews who have very little means of protecting their wages and

working conditions. We have heard lots of examples of things that happened.

There are some international obligations at work here. We

cannot have our own Canadian ministers of the Crown engaging in a practice that

is to the detriment of the people of this country and to the working industry of

this country. We have to have an integrated international policy. We have to act

on the international level too, to insist that standards be applied to

shipbuilding, to crewing, and to ships that are out on the ocean, because it

affects each of us.

There is a principle that ought to be developed and pursued

as part of a shipbuilding policy, to allow each nation's shipbuilding production

matching the value of their purchases internationally, similar to what we have

with the Canada Auto Pact, where the production is related to the consumption in

the community. That is a policy that has been advocated by the shipbuilding

industry, by the shipbuilding unions, for a number of years. There is a sort of

a 40-40-20 principle that is applied, that 40 per cent of our ships should be

built through trading with one country. You should use 40 per cent of their

ships and 40 per cent of yours, and 20 per cent can go internationally.

There are others. Various formulas have been proposed but the

basic principle is - it isn't international competitive, so-called, when one

country such as Korea or Italy or Norway or the European Union subsidize their

ships, and Canada does not do anything to support its ship building industry.

I want to commend the marine workers federation in this

Province and elsewhere for taking up this cause. Mr. Wayne Butler was very

active for many years, as the president of the marine workers federation in

Marystown, in supporting the ship building industry, in supporting the Marystown

Shipyard, working with the marine workers federation, now a part of the CAW, the

great Canadian union of skilled workers in the automobile, the aerospace, now

the marine union, and of course our great fisheries union here in the Province.

They have been a very important part of this. The shipyard general workers

federation of British Columbia, the (inaudible) in Quebec, have all been a part

of trying to promote, and in fact they are the ones who across this country have

been promoting, a campaign to have a national ship building policy in Canada.

This government has to play a role. When I heard recently

that the Terra Nova ships were being built in Nova Scotia as a result of

subsidies being provided by the Nova Scotia government, my question is: Where

was the protest from this government? What I heard was, in fact, that what this

government did was when they were planning to make the announcement in January,

after the election was called here, the only action this government took was

trying to get them to delay the announcement until after the election so they

would not be embarrassed by the fact that ships for the Terra Nova were being

built in Nova Scotia.

They were being built in Nova Scotia as a direct result of a

subsidy being offered by the Nova Scotia government for a loan guarantee. Where

was the loan guarantee from this Province? I heard the Minister of Education

when she spoke say: This is bad, we cannot have inter-competition between Nova

Scotia and Newfoundland. What we cannot have is this government ignoring its

responsibilities to ensure that the work goes here. If Nova Scotia is doing it,

then we have to make the same thing available until we are able to demand that

what I would like to see.

It is nice to support a motion in this House. You have my

support. I think every member of this House will support it. We have, in the

past, sent delegations to Ottawa on various issues that we did support

unanimously, but I think this is a governmental issue here. If we are talking

about a national ship building policy it is something that involves both the

provincial and federal governments and not just this Province. There is this

Province, there is Nova Scotia, there is Prince Edward Island, there is New

Brunswick, there is the Province of Quebec which has a big shipbuilding

industry, and there is, in fact, a shipbuilding industry on the West Coast. What

we need is all of these provinces together to approach the federal government.

Perhaps, if there are any more speakers on the other side, they could tell us

what plans they have of pursuing a national ship building policy with their

friends in Ottawa. That is what we need to see happen. They know that they have

an obligation to pursue this on a national level, they know the kind of policies

this government pursues, they have to make it a priority.

As long as we have a situation where the current Minister of

Finance has an interest in the policies the way they are, we are going to have a

lot of problems. We are going to have a lot of problems as long as the current

Minister of Finance in Ottawa is in the situation he is in with Canada

Steamships Limited and how it operates with flags of convenience.

What we need, in fact, to have happen is that the Government

of Canada has to play a strong role in recognizing that a ship building policy

is vital to the interests of Canada internationally, and is certainly vital to

the coastal provinces and the coastal communities, and vital to a place like

Marystown which have with the cooperation of the workers, with the cooperation

of management, with the assistance of this government, for the last twenty years

built a viable, competitive, highly skilled workforce that should be maintained

because these are terrific jobs. These are jobs that require high-skills, they

are fairly well-paid, and there is lots of spinoff because of supply of

materials and inputs into the process. These are skills that can be used in our

offshore industry, in our fishing industry, and in other aspects of our economy,

an economy which desperately needs jobs.

I was in Ontario the other day. There is 6 per cent

unemployment in Ontario today thanks to research and development money being

spent by the governments of Canada and Ontario, thanks to the support to

industry in Ontario, to the aerospace industry, to all their industries. What we

need is a ship building policy that is going to even out some of this economy

growth and even out some of this economy activity, and ensure that we too in

this Province can benefit from a strong economy, from a skilled workforce, and

who happen to live in Central Canada, or in Ontario.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I hope the Minister of Fisheries is

going to get up and support this resolution and tell us what his government is

doing to fight for a national ship building policy that is going to benefit this

Province.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure for me today

to close debate on this resolution, and to thank all the hon. members in the

House for their unanimous support of this resolution. I can assure you that the

members on this side of the House, and the government, will be taking every step

possible to ensure that we lobby the federal government for a national ship

building policy. The hon. Members for Burin-Placentia West and Grand Bank, and

the other members, and a lot of St. John's members, have a great interest in

this particular resolution, and the hon. Member for Trinity North.

I know that there are certain regions of this Province for

which this issue is very important. It is very important to all of Newfoundland

and Labrador. It is also very important to all the coastal provinces in this

country. I think we should be working with other provinces - British Columbia,

Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and New Brunswick - to make sure that we

provide a strong lobby in Ottawa to ensure that there is a policy that will

ensure a great ship building industry in this Province and other coastal

provinces of Canada.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Is the House ready for the question?

All those in favour, `aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye!

MR. SPEAKER: Against.

I declare the motion carried.

The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I think all of us would like for

the record to show that this resolution was carried unanimously.

Could I make one other point to members who might not know? I

suspect everybody knows already, but on Friday we are going to be closed,

because I understand the PC Party is having their -

AN HON. MEMBER: Leadership convention.

AN HON. MEMBER: Annual love-in.

MR. TULK: I understand they are having their annual

back-stabbing affair (inaudible).

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I know all about that kind of

stuff. So we won't be open on Friday.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

On motion, the House at its rising adjourned until tomorrow,

Thursday, at 2:00 p.m.