Manitoba Committee Hansard — 8 October 2025 (Social and Economic Development Committee, Sitting 5, 43rd Legislature, 2nd Session)

43-2-sed5

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session – Forty-Third Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development Chairperson David Pankratz Constituency of Waverley Vol. LXXIX No. 5 - 6 p.m., Wednesday, October 8, 2025 ISSN 1708-6698

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Third Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ASAGWARA, Uzoma, Hon. Union Station NDP BALCAEN, Wayne Brandon West PC BEREZA, Jeff Portage la Prairie PC BLASHKO, Tyler Lagimodière NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian, Hon. Keewatinook NDP BYRAM, Jodie Agassiz PC CABLE, Renée, Hon. Southdale NDP CHEN, Jennifer Fort Richmond NDP COMPTON, Carla Tuxedo NDP COOK, Kathleen Roblin PC CORBETT, Shannon Transcona NDP CROSS, Billie Seine River NDP DELA CRUZ, Jelynn Radisson NDP DEVGAN, JD McPhillips NDP EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni, Hon. St.

Johns NDP GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC HIEBERT, Carrie Morden-Winkler PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake-Gimli PC KENNEDY, Nellie, Hon. Assiniboia NDP KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP KING, Trevor Lakeside PC KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Dauphin NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom, Hon. Flin Flon NDP LOISELLE, Robert St. Boniface NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya, Hon. Notre Dame NDP MOROZ, Mike, Hon. River Heights NDP MOSES, Jamie, Hon. St. Vital NDP MOYES, Mike, Hon.

Riel NDP NARTH, Konrad La Vérendrye PC NAYLOR, Lisa, Hon. Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC OXENHAM, Logan Kirkfield Park NDP PANKRATZ, David Waverley NDP PERCHOTTE, Richard Selkirk PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP ROBBINS, Colleen Spruce Woods PC SALA, Adrien, Hon. St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu, Hon. The Maples NDP SCHMIDT, Tracy, Hon. Rossmere NDP SCHOTT, Rachelle Kildonan-River East NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SIMARD, Glen, Hon. Brandon East NDP SMITH, Bernadette, Hon. Point Douglas NDP STONE, Lauren Midland PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry Ind.

WHARTON, Jeff Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt, Hon. Concordia NDP WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC

103 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC DEVELOMENT Wednesday, October 8, 2025 TIME – 6 p.m. LOCATION – Winnipeg, Manitoba CHAIRPERSON – MLA David Pankratz (Waverley) VICE-CHAIRPERSON – MLA Jelynn Dela Cruz (Radisson) ATTENDANCE – 6 — QUORUM – 4 Members of the committee present: Mr. Blashko, Mrs. Cook, MLAs Cross, Dela Cruz, Lagassé, Pankratz APPEARING: Cindy Lamoureux, MLA for Tyndall Park Trevor King, MLA for Lakeside Hon.

Tracy Schmidt, MLA for Rossmere PUBLIC PRESENTERS: Bill 208–The Manitoba Small Busi ness Month Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) Fernanda Vallejo, Latinas Manitoba Bill 225–The Public Schools Amendment Act (Universal Screening for Learning Disabilities) Jacob Dyck, private citizen Laura Jones, private citizen Natalie Riediger, private citizen Ellen Gorter, Manitoba Literacy Alliance Lois Cormier, private citizen Kim Van Nieuw Amerongen, private citizen Chris deBoer, private citizen Karen Sharma, Manitoba Human Rights Commission Carrie Wood, private citizen Jina Pagura, private citizen Tianna Voort, private citizen Andrea Richardson, Ears for Life Audiology Ron Cadez, Louis Riel School Division Michelle Depner, private citizen Michelle Ward, private citizen Valdine Bjornson, Manitoba Teachers for Students with Learning Disabilities Allison Guercio, private citizen Fernanda Vallejo, Latinas Manitoba Melissa McIntosh, private citizen Andy Depner, private citizen Colette Pancoe, private citizen Bill 234–The Pride Month Act (Com memoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) Chris deBoer, private citizen Dieth de Leon, Bahaghari Pride Manitoba Nora Wilson, Brandon Pride WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS: Bill 225–The Public Schools Amendment Act (Universal Screening for Learning Disabilities) Jodianna Paterson, private citizen Cyndi Miles, private citizen Joanne Seiff, private citizen Carol Nixon-Pauls, private citizen John Mearon, private citizen Virginia Acuna Hernandez, private citizen Ryan Wakshinski, private citizen Ilana Schulz, private citizen Ginny Lees, private citizen Holly Cebrij, private citizen Rosana Montebruno, private citizen Suzy Martins, private citizen MATTERS UNDER CONSIDERATION: Bill 208–The Manitoba Small Busi ness Month Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) Bill 225–The Public Schools Amendment Act (Universal Screening for Learning Disabilities) Bill 234–The Pride Month Act (Com memoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) * * * Clerk Assistant (Ms.

Katerina Tefft): Good evening. Will the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development please come to order. Before the committee can proceed with the busi- ness before it, it must elect a Chairperson. Are there any nominations? MLA Billie Cross (Seine River): I'd like to nominate MLA Pankratz. Clerk Assistant: MLA Pankratz has been nominated. Are there any other nominations?

104 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2025 Hearing no other nominations, MLA Pankratz, will you please take the Chair. The Chairperson: Before we continue, I 'd like to inform this commit tee that a resig nation letter from Mr. Blashko as Vice- Chairperson of this com mittee was received. Therefore, our next item of business is the election of a Vice-Chairperson. Are there any nominations? MLA Cross: I nominate MLA Dela Cruz The Chairperson: Okay, MLA Dela Cruz has been nominated. Are there any other nominations? Hearing no other nominations, MLA Dela Cruz is elected Vice-Chairperson.

This meeting has been called to consider the fol - lowing bills: Bill 208, The Manitoba Small Busi ness Month Act; Bill 225, The Public Schools Amendment Act; and Bill 234, The Pride Month Act. I would like to inform all in attendance of the provi- sions in our rules regarding the hour of adjournment. A standing committee meeting to consider a bill must not sit past midnight to hear public presentations or to consider clause by clause of a bill except by unanimous consent of the committee. Written submissions from the following persons have been received and distributed to committee mem- bers.

So on Bill 225, we have Jodianna Paterson, Cyndi Miles, Joanne Seiff, Carol Nixon- Pauls, John Mearon, Virginia Acuna Hernandez, Ryan Wakshinski, Ilana Schulz, Ginny Lees, Holly Cebrij, Rosana Montebruno and Suzy Martins. Does the committee agree to have these documents appear in the Hansard transcript of this meeting? [Agreed] MLA Cross: Is there leave for the committee to firstly complete public pre sentations and clause -by-clause consideration of bills 208 and 234 before moving on to public pre sentations and clause -by-clause consid- eration of Bill 225?

The Chairperson: Is there leave? [Agreed] Okay, prior to proceeding with public pre senta- tions, I would like to advise members of the public regarding the process for speaking in committee. In accordance with our rules, a time limit of 10 minutes has been allotted for pre sentations, with another five minutes allowed for questions from com- mittee members. Questions shall not exceed 45 seconds in length, with no time limit for answers.

Questions may be addressed to presenters in the following rotation: first, the member sponsoring the bill or another member of their caucus; second, a mem- ber from each other recog nized party; and third, an independent member. If a presenter is not in attendance when their name is called, they will be dropped to the bottom of the list. If the presenter is not in attendance when their name is called the second time, they will be removed from the presenters' list. The proceedings of our meetings are recorded in order to provide a verbatim transcript.

Each time someone wishes to speak, whether it be an MLA or a presenter, I first have to say the person's name. This is the signal for the Hansard recorder to turn the mics on and off. On the topic of deter mining the order of public presentations, I will note that we have in -person, out-of-town presenters registered, marked with an asterisk on the list. We also have a presenter registered to Bill 225, Jacob Dyck, who is 10 years old and has requested that he be allowed to present first to the bill. With these considerations in mind, in what order does the committee wish to hear the presentations?

MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): I'm sug- gesting that for Bill 225, that the com mittee allow Jason [phonetic] Dyck to go first, followed by presenters with young children, followed by out -of-town presenters who are in person, followed by the list numerically for the remainder of the committee. The Chairperson: Is there agreement? [Agreed] Okay, thank you for your patience. We will now proceed with public presentations.

Bill 208–The Manitoba Small Business Month Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) The Chairperson: So beginning with Bill 208, The Manitoba Small Business Month Act, we will begin with Fernanda Vallejo, from Latinas Manitoba Inc. Please go ahead. Fernanda Vallejo (Latinas Manitoba): Okay, hello, everyone. I hope you're doing good. My name is Fernanda Vallejo, and I represent Latinas Manitoba, a community organization that sup-

October 8, 2025 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 105 ports immigrants, women and families through em - powerment, education and entrepreneurship. This bill is very meaningful to us. On Latinas Manitoba, we have a project called Martes de Emprendedores which is Entrepreneur Tuesdays.

Every week we promote and support local small busi ness from our com munity: restaurants, hand- made crafts, natural products, cleaning services and many more. * (18:10) It helps these business owners, or small-business owners, gain visibility, build confidence, and connect with customers in Manitoba, especially for newcomers, that they want to start their own busi ness and it's not easy to find jobs. This is why this bill matters.

Recognizing a small businessman will not only celebrate the small- busi- ness owners but also remind us to buy local, to support the people who make our neighbourhoods stronger and more diverse. I hope that in the future this recognition also brings more training, mentorship and future opportun- ities for immigrants. Thank you. The Chairperson: Thank you for your presentation. Do members of the committee have any questions for the presenter? MLA Billie Cross (Seine River): Not a question, but I want to thank you for presenting.

This is exactly why I brought this bill forward because I think we need to focus on local as much as we can. We need to support our small-business owners. My family owns small businesses. I know how incred- ibly hard folks work to run those small businesses and how im portant they are. And my hope is that this month will highlight that, give people an opportunity to really celebrate small businesses and give them an opportunity to work with the Chambers of Commerce by creating a calendar where m aybe we look at a different small-business sector each day of the month. Thank you so much. The Chairperson: Ms.

Vallejo, did you want to respond to that? F. Vallejo: You're welcome. And also talking about immigration, small businesses, this October 15 we are celebrating the Latin American Heritage Month here at the Leg., October 15. You guys are invited–5 p.m. The Chairperson: Thank you so much. Mrs. Kathleen Cook (Roblin): Thank you for coming and presenting tonight.

I know that a lot of new comers to our province own and operate small busi nesses in Manitoba and a lot of small businesses in Manitoba employ new - comers to our province as well, so I know what an im- portant issue it is for your community and for the busi- ness community as whole. Thanks for coming. The Chairperson: Thank you, Ms. Cook. Did you want to respond to that at all? F. Vallejo: No, thank you. Thank you for the space. The Chairperson: Well, thank you so much for your presentation, Ms. Vallejo.

Bill 234–The Pride Month Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) The Chairperson: Moving along to Bill 234, The Pride Month Act, our first presenter will be Mr. Chris deBoer. Hello. Please go ahead with your presentation. Chris deBoer (Private Citizen): Thank you, Mr. Chair, and members of the com mittee. My name is Chris deBoer, and I'm here as a private citizen. I'd like to speak just against the sugges tion that we formally, as government, label June as Pride month.

I respect and ap preciate that we live in a pluralistic and multicultural society, not everybody' s going to share the same values, et cetera. But had the proposal been that we would designate one day in June as Pride day, I wouldn' t be here. I wouldn't be excited about it. I wouldn' t endorse it, et cetera, but I would not be here. My concern is that we're going to declare June to be Pride month as state, and it just seems that that 's over the top, given the –for example, for veterans we have Remembrance Day.

You also are or have recently considered adding the RCMP memorial day type of thing–I think it was on February 1st –that's before committee at some point. We have Truth and Reconciliation; we have a day. So my concern is that–that Pride is going to have an overemphasis, if you will, in the month of June.

106 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2025 My other concern is that we're going to market a lot of Pride materials to the schools, and you're going to inundate the schools with all kinds of materials to help the schools celebrate Pride month, and I would suggest that that 's just going to cause continued greater division in our communities and society. As a principal of an independent school, I continue to receive many requests to have children attend our school, and it 's in part because of their concerns regarding the public education system's push of some of these issues.

So while I fully understand and appreciate that we live in this multicultural pluralistic society, while I can understand why one might celebrate Pride Day, I would ask that the com mittee please consider not adopting June as Pride month and consider t hat even in the bill itself, actually, it speaks about Pride events are political protests, right. So what you end up doing then is having a month endorsed by the state for the very purpose of political protest, and as you can well understand, protest has two sides. And so that would just drive greater division in our society.

So I would ask please, can we change the bill to have a Pride day at the most and then, perhaps, move from there. Thank you for listening to me. The Chairperson: Thank you for your presentation. Any questions? Mr. Tyler Blashko (Lagimodière): I just want to thank you for taking time out of your evening and making your presentation and the thought that you put into it. I really appreciate it. I'll just provide a little context in that there's many months throughout the year that are recognized: Islamic History Month, Indigenous history month, Asian Heritage Month, so this wouldn't be an anomaly.

And I'm wondering if there's a world where Pride month would be seen as a learning opportunity and not necessarily

an act of division, but

an act of opportun- ity to learn about other cultures. The Chairperson: Mr. deBoer, did you want to respond? C. deBoer: I would say that's probably very true, that you would be able to share the Pride worldview, et cetera. I would happen to be against that worldview, and so, like I said, I wouldn' t be a big fan of a Pride day either, but it would be what you do with it. And my concern is that a lot of the material, like when we have these various months, as a school, we receive a lot of material promoting and encouraging us to celebrate and to engage in that celebration.

And with certain months, like Black History Month, for example, we are quite excited to do that. Healthy living, we do a month as –or reading month we do. There are a number that we can partici pate in with happiness and joy. This one is a bigger issue, of course. It comes at a worldview question and I don't think now is the time to get into all the nuances of that. But I would definitely agree with you; it certainly would be useful for learning. I guess I would argue that it might also lead to, if we disagree, can we disagree, right? And that's where I would find some struggle.

The Chairperson: Thank you, Mr. deBoer. Mrs. Kathleen Cook (Roblin): I don' t have a question. I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to come tonight and share your views. The Chairperson: Any further questions? Okay. Thank you for your presentation, Mr. deBoer. I will now call on Dieth de Leon, who is joining us virtually. Dieth de Leon (Bahaghari Pride Manitoba): Hi there, good evening– The Chairperson: Sorry. I 'm just going to have to stop you for one moment. We will need to actually see you. We can't have an avatar, unfortunately. Are you able to turn on your video so we can see you?

Perfect, thank you so much. Did I pronounce your name correctly? My apologies. Dieth? D. de Leon: That's okay. It's actually Dieth. The Chairperson: Okay. I apologize. Please proceed with your presentation. * (18:20) D. de Leon: Thank you for giving me this opportunity to be able to be here. I'm sure you have seen me before and you have heard me before, and I apologize for my weak voice tonight. But I'll try my best to deliver the message that I would like to deliver. So first of all, I would like to thank our govern - ment members, MLA Blashko, MLA Cross, MLA Dela Cruz and MLA Pankratz, and also the

October 8, 2025 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 107 opposition–official op position members, Mrs. Cook and MLA Lagassé and the other. Thank you for this opportunity once again. So, yes, I guess I'm just going to read what I wrote. Yes, so dear com mittee members, all of you. As a private citizen and as the founder and the president of Bahaghari Pride Manitoba, also as an immigrant from the Philippines whose advocacy centres on decolonization, inclusivity, pre -colonial history and anti-fascism, I am expressing my strong and unequivocal support for the Bill 234, The Pride Month Act.

This legislation represents an important milestone in Manitoba's ongoing commitment to equity, diversity and inclusion. The formal recognition of Pride Month will serve as both a com memoration and a call to action, honouring the 2SLGBTQI+ com munity's resilience and con tribution, while reaffirming our shared provincial values of respect and unity. Manitoba has long been known for its friendliness and community spirit. These qualities have shaped our province's identity and expressing our collective sense of belonging.

Supporting the Pride Month act allows us to reclaim that spirit and to continue building a province where everyone, regardless of gender identity, sexuality or background, feels welcome, valued and included. It is a statement that we stand together as one Manitoban, united in the belief that inclusion strengthens us all. From a decolonial and historical perspective, this bill also holds a deep sig nificance. In precolonial Philippines, gender diverse such as the babaylan, or shaman, were respected community leaders and healers, until colonization, where Spanish colonized Philippines for 333 years.

Similarly here, on this island, in Turtle Island, in these treaty territories, two -spirit people have long held sacred roles with Indigenous nations, embodying balance and leadership. The formal recog nition of Pride Month here in our province not only celebrates today's queer identity; it also celebrates our trans collective communities, but also acknowledge and uplift the enduring presence and contribution of the two -spirit peoples, whose histories and identities are integral in our province.

Through education, dialogue and visibility, I believe that Bill 234 will promote inclusion, empathy and understanding across Manitoba 's com munities. Its passage will reaffirm our province, the province of Manitoba, commitment to human rights and demon- strate that kindness, solidarity and respect remain at the heart of our collective identities. So once again, thank you for your consid eration and for your continued effort toward a more equitable and inclusive Manitoba. Thank you. The Chairperson: Thank you so much, Dieth, for that presentation. Are there any questions? Mr. Blashko: Hi, Dieth.

So glad you could be here. Pleasant surprise. I was just wondering if you wanted to elaborate on some of your work with Bahaghari Pride, and if you wanted to talk about how that com munity's kind of been formed, but also growing. The Chairperson: Go ahead, Dieth. D. de Leon: Thank you for that wonderful question. Well, I am very happy to share that. Before, we don't have this group, this Bahaghari Manitoba group, here in Manitoba, and I believe we are the first in the Filipino and Asian community to have a queer space here in Manitoba, and I am happy to hear that.

So when we are started, a lot of people were happy that we were able to provide this kind of safe space for people who were, you know, a member of the Filipino 2SLGBTQI+, as well as our collective Asian commu- nity, where they can find a specific group like this. And also, I think we provide a lot of history why being a member of 2SLGBTQI+ even way before it's accepted and valued, and it is not some thing that we should hide, rather than– you know, instead it is some thing that we celebrate as a part of our identity.

And I think, as far as I observe, these kind of activities and–you know, that we provide to our com- munity, not just in the Filipino commu nity, it saves lives. It makes them feel that they are not alone, that there's someone out there, there is someplace out there for them. Thank you. The Chairperson: Thank you, Dieth. Are there any further questions? Mrs. Cook: Thank you so much for presenting to us today. I don' t have a question. I just wanted to say thank you.

108 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2025 The Chairperson: Thank you, MLA Cook. Any further questions? Okay. Thank you so much for your pre sentation today, Dieth. I appreciate you being with us. So our next presenter will be Dr. Nora Wilson, who will also join us on Zoom. Nora Wilson (Brandon Pride): This is not working. I apologize. For some reason my video is not turning on. Oh, that's wonderful. I apologize for no video on here. I don't know why my computer is not doing that. But I know that you have a need– The Chairperson: Dr.

Wilson, if you just hold on for one second, I 'll ask for leave from the com mittee to see if the com mittee is okay with leave to allow Dr. Wilson to present without video and just audio. [Agreed] So, Dr. Wilson, if you'd like to go ahead without video, you can go ahead. We 'll just have your audio feed here, but we won't be able to see you. N. Wilson: I really do appreciate your accommodation on this, everyone in the room. Thank you very much for hearing my voice here today. I'd like to start by acknowledging that I am a transgender woman. I have been living in this prov- ince since 2014.

I originally came here from the United States where I was born, and I am now a Canadian citizen. I live in Brandon, Manitoba, where I am the chair of Brandon Pride. It is a position that they have just taken over, as recently as just this last month in September, and I am just very privileged and honoured to be here speaking with you today.

I was very happy to see that this bill was up for a vote, simply because I believe that we need to recog- nize Pride, that the govern ment needs to recog nize Pride every year to–just to show that they understand that it is a perpetual fight that we and the 2SLGBTQIA+ community–we are fighting this every single day, our right to exist as we are, to love who we love, to live as who we just feel in our hearts. * (18:30) And I think many cisgender and heterosexual people, perhaps also Mr. deBoer who spoke earlier, with all due respect, don't necessarily understand why there needs to be a Pride month to begin with, or even a Pride day.

And I'd like to just simply just state some facts that–as for reasons why this is important. Being straight has never been considered illegal, nor has being cisgender. Kids don' t generally get kicked out of their home for being straight or cisgender. You don' t get thrown in jail for being straight or cisgender. No one protests straight and cisgender weddings, and also those weddings have always had a right to happen and to be celebrated. People have not had to go into conversion therapy because they are straight or cisgender.

People aren' t experiencing the same level of violence as straight and cisgender people. Straight and cisgender couples can go out onto the street holding hands with one another feeling safe to do so;

whereas, just speaking to that one personally, if I go walking on the street with my partner in my town of Brandon, Manitoba, probably one out of five times I'll have some thing yelled at me from a fast- moving car, some derogatory statement yelled at me from somebody who does not approve of the kind of love that we have, simply just for holding hands.

I bring all of this up to show that Pride is an on- going celebration, an ongoing protest, and yes, it is a protest, because every single election that rolls by, including our last provincial one, including our last federal election, including our upcoming school board trustee election happening in Brandon in the next week or so, every single one of these elections comes with the fright, the terror that the wrong kind of gov- ernment could be put into power, ones that will strip away my access to medical care, my ability to love and marry someone whom I truly love and adore in my heart, my right to just be myself, a trans woman, out in public, someone who has served my community for over 11 years now as a professor at my university in Brandon University, as a volunteer for many organ- izations around town, as just someone who supports the local economy.

People in the 2SLGBTQIA+ com munities, we deserve the rights that everybody else does. We deserve the right that every straight and cisgender person has inherently. And I, quite honestly, I always find it a little insulting when my right to exist as myself, my right to love who I want to love, is called a political issue when, in reality, it is a human rights issue. And you can hate me all you want, you can hate trans people all you want, but you cannot deny my right to exist. And when I hear people say that we should not have any kind of recognition of Pride because it 's a political issue, I don't agree at all.

October 8, 2025 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 109 And, yes, we should allow kids to learn about Pride history, about 2SLGBTQIA+ history. Because that's another thing that doesn't happen to straight and cisgender people. Their history is not erased like 2SLGBTQIA+ history. These kids who are in these schools deserve to see themselves in the reading materials that they check out from the library. They deserve to see them selves in every subject in the curriculum. They deserve to see–they deserve to have safety in their own schools. They deserve to use bathrooms that align with their gender identity.

They deserve to not feel like their identity is going to be outed to parents who would not support them in their own household. They deserve to play sports that align with their gender identity. I was never into sports myself as a kid, but I was a band kid, but–you know, for those young trans girls who sports speak to them, they should be able to do it. So in conclusion with this, we need Pride because we need to keep growing as a society, we need to keep recognizing that other kinds of people exist in this world and that being straight and cisgender is not the default.

And it 's until we get to that point where we recognize that many types of people exist, Pride has to be recognized, and I appreciate the Manitoba gov- ernment for having the rightful thinking to put this bill into place, for taking all of the actions that the y have thus far in this NDP government, protecting my rights as a trans woman, of making my ability to change my name and change my gender designation easier. I ap- preciate the efforts there, and I thank you again for this particular bill. Thank you. The Chairperson: Thank you so much, Dr. Wilson. Are there any questions? Mr. Blashko: Thank you, Dr.

Wilson, for sharing so generously with us tonight. Yes, we 've all learned from your exper ience and we really ap preciate your generosity. I'm curious, sometimes folks think being queer or trans is like a big-city thing, where you and I and many others know that we exist everywhere. So I'm curious what your–what this bill means in a smaller centre, like Brandon, for your community. N. Wilson: Thank you for that question.

Yes, there are more queer people in cities simply because cities tend to be more welcoming of those–of more kinds of different people and tend to have more resources for my community, the 2SLGBTQIA+ com- munity. But you're absolutely right, we exist every- where, and we exist in towns like Arden, Manitoba , and Souris, Manitoba, and Killarney. In all these small little towns in Westman there are queer people who are afraid to be themselves. There are queer people who are afraid of the societal backlash. They are afraid of their familial backlash.

They're afraid of being in their schools or work environment, of being them selves. And these people, seeing that their govern ment is supporting their right to exist through recognizing Pride month and doing the other measures that have been taken, that goes a long way towards emboldening people to actually step out of their shame and self-doubt to be– to realize themselves fully as human beings. The Chairperson: Thank you, Dr. Wilson. Any further questions? Mrs. Cook: Hi, Dr. Wilson. Thank your for taking the time tonight to share your story with us. The Chairperson: Thank you, MLA Cook. Any further questions?

Okay, thank you so much, Dr. Wilson, for being here with us tonight. * * * Bill 208–The Manitoba Small Business Month Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) (Continued) The Chairperson: As previously agreed, we 'll now move on to clause by clause of Bill 208. Does the bill sponsor, the honourable member for Seine River, have an opening statement? Go ahead, MLA Cross. MLA Billie Cross (Seine River): I'll try and keep it short. I respect all the parents in the room. I'm a mom and a grandma, so I get it. So I 'll just keep–I'll say a few words.

Small businesses are the heart of Manitoba 's economy. They provide good jobs. They offer quality services and keep our communities strong and vibrant. But today our small -business owners are facing real challenges due to tariffs, trade uncertainty and global instability. Our government believes it' s our job to support and uplift small businesses, and that 's why I 'm so

110 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2025 proud to bring forward, Bill 208, the Manitoba small business act. This bill amends The Com memoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act to proclaim the month of May each year as Manitoba small busi ness month. To me, this isn't just a symbolic gesture. It's a way to shine a light on the people who drive our local economies: our entrepreneurs, our family- run shops, our farmers and our local makers. * (18:40) As a small business owner, I personally under - stand the heart and dedication it takes to run a busi - ness.

From creating a valuable product for folks to enjoy to serving your com munity, a small business means so much both to the owners and to our commu- nities. The passing of this bill does more than just show our appre ciation for small businesses. It also goes hand in hand with our government's support Manitoba, buy local campaign, which is to encourage more Manitobans to support our local busi nesses, to keep our money in our province and to strengthen our economy for the long term. Small businesses make up 95 per cent of Manitoba's business sector.

For every dollar spent at a small retailer, 66 cents stays right here in our local economy. That's two-thirds of every dollar going back into our com munities, supporting jobs, services and families. We have more than 40,000 small businesses in our province, in agri culture, retail, health care, tourism, construction, transportation and more. Their true impact and value on Manitoba 's economy is invaluable. But I want to say that out of that–all of those small businesses, only 12 per cent of them are women-owned. That's something we can be proud of, but it 's some- thing we really, really need to build on.

So we want people to know that when they choose a local product, whether it's from Thompson, Beausejour, Steinbach or right here in Winnipeg, they' re sup - porting their neighbours, their com munities and our economy. Thank you. The Chairperson: Thank the member from Seine River. Does any other member wish to make an opening statement on Bill 208? No? Okay, during the consideration of a bill, the enact- ing clause and the title are postponed until all other clauses have been considered in their proper order. Clause 1 –pass; clause 2 –pass; clause 3 –pass; enacting clause–pass; title–pass. Bill be reported.

Bill 234–The Pride Month Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) (Continued) The Chairperson: We'll now move on to clause by clause of Bill 234. Does the bill sponsor, the honourable member for Lagimodière, have an opening statement? Mr. Tyler Blashko (Lagimodière): It turns out I do. The Chairperson: Please go ahead. Mr. Blashko: Thank you, everyone. I want to start off by thanking all those who took the time to contribute to the process of bringing this bill to this point.

There were many individuals and community organizations from across the province that were involved with the consul tation earlier on. And, of course, thank you to those that shared their insights and perspectives tonight at committee. The purpose of this bill is to include June as Pride month in The Com memoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act. Everyone has the right to self-expression here in Manitoba, regardless of their sexual orienta - tion, gender identity or gender expression.

Pride is a celebration of queer and trans culture, history and community that seeks to recognize and promote the dignity, equality, safety and visibility of those in the community. This bill was always important, but the world has even evolved since its introduction earlier this session. There are gov ernments looking to erase queer histories, remove protec tions and unjustly scapegoat trans folks for any number of things. Here in Manitoba, Pride celebrations in Steinbach had to be postponed because of threats. Earlier this year, the PCs didn 't show up to Winnipeg Pride.

Their new leader claimed they weren't invited. Pride isn 't Willy Wonka 's chocolate factory; you don't need a golden ticket. You just need to genuinely show up, ready to learn, support and celebrate the 2SLGBTQQIA+ community. Maybe they couldn't even muster that. They also ran their last campaign on a transphobic parental rights platform and voted against including gender expression in the Human Rights Code. I say all this because we can slide backwards.

October 8, 2025 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 111 Our NDP is taking a decidedly different approach to our work. We'll always stand for the strength of our diversity and promotion of an inclusive Manitoba. We have expanded access to gender -affirming care, recognized two-spirit and trans day of visibility and are active partners with queer-led organizations across the province. Before I finish my comments, I just want to thank the many people and organizations who are doing the work to build a better, more welcoming province for the queer and trans community.

During the consultation and throughout the summer, me and my colleagues met so many amazing edu - cators, community leaders, youth and elders across the province doing the necessary com munity-building work. This bill is an impor tant opportunity to affirm their work and underline that their provincial govern- ment stands right alongside them in building a stronger, more inclusive province. Thank you. The Chairperson: We thank the member for that statement. Does any other member wish to make an opening statement on Bill 234? Mrs.

Kathleen Cook (Roblin): Only to say that my colleagues and I here tonight are pleased to support this bill and would prefer not to engage in partisan attacks. The Chairperson: Thank you for those comments. During the consid eration of a bill, the enacting clause and the title are postponed until all other clauses have been considered in their proper order. Clause 1 –pass; clause 2 –pass; clause 3 –pass; enacting clause–pass; title–pass.

Bill be reported. * * * Bill 225–The Public Schools Amendment Act (Universal Screening for Learning Disabilities) The Chairperson: So, as previously agreed, we will now be hearing presentations on Bill 225. And we will start with Mr. Jacob Dyck. Go ahead, Mr. Dyck. Jacob Dyck (Private Citizen): For the past –hello, my name is Jacob Dyck, and the past of, like, how difficult my life was including at school of how much that I usually –that the teachers didn't teach me right and it was hard and it was painful for me.

And other dyslexia kids are probably going through the same thing I went through, but I went to–on tutoring for two years to learn how to spell and write, and it helped. But it was really tough and it was wasting my time.

And I went to a brand -new school, Laureate Academy, to that–the teachers actually know how to teach dyslexia kids and how hard my life was, but we need to make that better because all teachers need to know how to teach dyslexia kids, ADHD kids and dysgraphia kids, because if I went through all of that and it hurted me then I definitely don't want that to happen to other kids because then that just makes me sad and I don't want that to happen. Thanks for listening. The Chairperson: Thank you, Mr. Dyck. And I want to thank you for really–[interjection] –so, Mr.

Dyck, I want to thank you for very bravely and clearly articulating your experience with this. Does anybody have any questions for Mr. Dyck? MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): I really just want to thank you for coming out and speaking to committee tonight. Committee can be a very vul ner- able place, it can be a very challenging place to be sometimes. And you're spear heading our com mittee this evening, Bill 225, by being brave enough and by being strong enough to come and speak first. So, thank you. The Chairperson: Mr. Dyck, did you want to respond to the MLA? J. Dyck: No. The Chairperson: That's okay.

Anybody else have a question? MLA Billie Cross (Seine River): Mr. Dyck, I would like to start by saying how impressed I am. I'm a teacher and I know hard it is for students to stand up in front of a group and speak so well. So I wanted to thank you for presenting to all of us and telling us about yourself. * (18:50) Could you tell us what grade you're in and how old you are? J. Dyck: I am 10 and I'm in grade 5. The Chairperson: Any other questions for Mr. Dyck? Mrs. Kathleen Cook (Roblin): Hi, Mr. Dyck. Thank you for coming.

112 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2025 I have two 10-year-olds, so I can imagine that this was a big under taking for you and–but you certainly didn't look like it's the first time you've done this. So I don't know if it was or not, but you did a great job and it really helps us do our jobs to hear from people like you. So thank you. The Chairperson: Thank you so much, Mr. Dyck. MLA Bob Lagassé (Dawson Trail): So I wanted to say thank you, as well, because I actually went to The Laureate Academy when it first opened.

So I know, your eyes got a little bigger there, and look where I'm sitting now, right? So I understand what you went through as a kid– or as a kid now. I was also someone who had a hard time really learning and focusing on things. And I'm telling you, there's great things ahead of you. So thank you for coming here tonight. The Chairperson: Thank you, MLA Lagassé. Do you want to respond to that at all, Mr. Dyck? J. Dyck: Well, no. The Chairperson: That's great; that's okay. MLA Jelynn Dela Cruz (Radisson): Thank you, Mr. Dyck.

I don't know what my fellow committee members were doing at 10 years old, but certainly not this. I want to say, you know, despite how challenging it must have been for you to find your voice and feel empowered in academia and your edu cation, I want you to know that it's all paying off. You're incredibly articulate, like many folks here have said tonight, and I hope that you continue using your voice so that other kids like you–the kids that'll come after you, long after you– will, you know, will benefit from your advocacy. The Chairperson: Thank you, MLA Dela Cruz. Mr. Trevor King (Lakeside): Thank you, Mr.

Dyck, for your presentation. It was very inspiring. You're a very inspiring young man and when I look at you and how you spoke today, as my colleague had said, there's many –very much for you in –ahead. I can picture you sitting in one of t hese chairs one day. So you keep using that voice of yours and saying what you feel. The Chairperson: Thank you, MLA King. Do you have any last statements, Mr. Dyck? J. Dyck: No.

The Chairperson: Thank you so much for being here tonight. [interjection] So I will just advise that, as inspired as we all are– and I, myself also want to applaud–we are technically not allowed to be applauding here in com mittee tonight. So I will ask, just moving forward, if we could hold that back and maybe we could all put our hands in the air or some thing to celebrate. That works as well. Thank you so much. Okay, so as previously agreed, we will move on now to any presenters with children. So we're going to start with Ms. Laura Jones. Thank you for being here.

You can please go ahead with your presentation. Laura Jones (Private Citizen): Hello, my name is Laura Jones and I'm so thrilled to be here. I know that participating like this and helping to shape future laws is not something that people can do everywhere in the world and it's very special. And I appre ciate the op - portunity. I appreciate you all hearing me and I appre- ciate all the hard work that you're doing–all of you–to help Manitobans. So thank you very, very much.

And I'm going to start off with my aha moment, the moment that it clicked for me that I was going to have to go outside the Manitoba school system to get my kiddo the support she needed. And that's what we've done and we're doing really well, but I know this option isn't available for many families. So it was a couple of years ago and my kids started really bothering me to go try rolled ice cream. It was like a new fad, and they're hearing about it from all their friends. And they wanted rolled ice cream so badly and their friends told them about a s hop called Milksmith.

I'm not sure if–okay, yes, you know what I'm talking about –so that –on Corydon. And finally after, you know, nagging me about it, eventually I said, okay, this is the Saturday. We can go to Milksmith, and you can bring some friends. So we arrived, and it was everything that they had heard about. You know, there are pink walls; there was candy that was framed; it was totally adorable. There were countless toppings for your ice cream, a giant frozen table where artists were smushing ice cream with toppings and rolling them up and chopping them up and making them into these art pieces.

October 8, 2025 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 113 And so we got there. The kids were going bonkers, eyes open. Everyone's really jacked to try this ice cream. So we're finally there. And we went to put our stuff down at the table and then head over to order, and my younger daughter grabbed me by the hand and said–like, grabbed my hand down further, so I'd come down and I could put my ear to her mouth. And her face–you know, she had been so excited, and then it just kind of–and just white. And she said, I–we've got to go; I don't want ice cream. We have to go.

And I said, no; like, we're at the rolled ice cream. Like, we're here. Come on; let's go get your ice cream. Come on. And yes, and she said, no, Mom. I need to go right now. And so I–you know, I asked her what was going on, and, as it turned out, she told me, like, I know I can't read the board and everyone else can. She didn't want anyone, you know, to know, because she was getting to that age. Thank you. So for me, that was–in that moment, it was–like, we're going for ice cream; yay. We're going with friends–even better. We're going to Milksmith–oh my gosh–and all the excitement.

And then to see, in an instant, all that excitement turn into, like, fear, anxiety and a lot of shame. And so I knew that we had to, you know, go outside of the Manitoba school system to get her the support she needed because we had– we were working; we were slogging away, but it obviously wasn't fast enough, and we were at a point where things were about to get really, really tough for her. And having said that, we're actually located in one of the top divisions –school divisions in Manitoba.

They're adopting and they're even creating a better literacy program because they see that many kids–it's not just dyslexic kids –but many kids are leavi ng school without the levels of literacy that they really need to flourish in life. And I know that you see this too. I've had the opportunity to engage with members of the Manitoba Education and Early Child hood Learning Student Achievement and Inclusion Division, mostly after writing to you, and I feel that they've really heard me. Co-ordinator Kelly Ring-Whiklo met with me over the phone in May. We had a very long meeting.

I've also had the opportunity to sit and share with–share our experience with another co-ordinator, Cheryl Beaumont, who was fantastic, because they cared and they showed up to the Manitoba Human Rights Commission Right to Read public consultation. And about a week ago I received another letter – or, I received a letter from Assistant Deputy Minister Janet Tomy in response to a letter that I'd written to you. And so I appre ciate that you're listening to Manitobans. I feel that you hear what I'm saying, and I know that you all want to get –that Manitoba wants to get reading right and that you all want this.

And I see the gov ernment taking good steps, like intro - ducing the universal early reading screening tools to ensure that no student is left behind. And I really, really applaud this effort, and I really want to make sure it works and that it's here to stay. And that's why I think that passing this bill to enshrine early screening and access to support is so important. Reading shouldn't be politicized. Support for this is a fun damental right. It's a fundamental life skill, and it shouldn't sway depending on elections.

I'm so encouraged to see this recog nized by the NDP and to see you working together on this private member's bill to improve and safeguard literacy screening in Manitoba for years to come. * (19:00) Thank you for your collaboration. And honestly, I think this is a bill for Manitoba. It's not just a bill for kids with learning dis abilities. Bill 225 will benefit so many readers in Manitoba and give them a great chance to succeed.

The most recent report I could find on adult literacy, it's very outdated, it was from 2008, but it's striking and I'd be surprised if they've improved based on our experience and what I've heard from many others. So in 2008, the consul tation on adult literacy in Manitoba report submitted to Manitoba Advanced Education and Literacy explained that 40 per cent of working-aged adults had literacy scores below the minimum level to fully participate in our knowledge-based economy and society.

So with that in mind, I might actually suggest you consider changing the title of the bill from uni versal screening for learning disabilities to universal screen- ing for learning dif ficulties, if that's some thing that Dyslexia Canada would recommend. And I'd like to close with some insight that I've heard from our Premier that really resonated with me. I've heard Premier Kinew explain that education is the new buffalo: it's what will put a food –or put food on

114 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2025 the table and a roof overhead. And that makes a lot of sense to me. And I wonder what can edu cation, Manitoba's buffalo, provide without a strong founda - tion in literacy? Without solid literacy, I think that Manitoba's buffalo is starving, and it's time to feed the buffalo. It's time to take this positive step. Please pass Bill 225 and safeguard early screenings and access to reading and writing support. Manitoba has the opportunity to be a leader here. We could be the first province to enshrine a literacy mandate into law. Please, please pass Bill 225.

The Chairperson: Thank you, Ms. Jones. Cindy, do you have any questions? MLA Lamoureux: Thank you, Ms. Jones, for your presentation, and especially for sharing your personal experience and story of your daughter. I believe that it's the personal experiences that really often help push legislation through, ensure that legislation does in fact get enacted in our province. So I want to thank you for sharing that with the committee here. And I liked what you said about it's not just for the children currently in school, but it is for the future of Manitoba.

We want to see Manitoba do well, to see Manitoba succeed, and in order to do that, we need our children to be educated well and we need our literacy rates to go higher. We're very, very low in comparison to other parts of the country. And I did just want to report that, at this point, it has gone through second reading and the comments that have been shared inside of the House have been supportive of both the NDP and the PCs, so hopefully it will continue to move through positively a nd go through third reading and become legislation. The Chairperson: So we'll go back to you, Ms. Jones, to respond.

And I will just remind everybody in the commit- tee that it's a 45-second time limit to ask the question. An Honourable Member: Sorry. The Chairperson: Yes, that's okay. L. Jones: I just want to say that's wonderful to hear, and, you know, we were so fortunate to have this aha moment at a young age and see such a tremendous turnaround with private support. But a lot of families don't have that moment until it's much later and the y have a very different story. So I really appreciate what you're all doing. Thank you. The Chairperson: Thank you, Ms. Jones.

MLA Cross: Thank you for your pre sentation and sharing your personal story. As mentioned, I'm a teacher. I'm one of seven in our caucus. I've worked in three different school divi- sions, I've worked as an educational assistant, I've worked as an early years teacher, a high school teacher and an itinerant teacher. I have taught in every single grade you could teach in. I, of course, support literacy and teaching kids, and I believe that not all children–how do I word this? We have to meet children where they're at, and not every child could utilize or benefit from one single screening tool.

That would be my only concern with this bill, is where it says a single screening tool. I worry about that because what if that tool doesn't help one child? Then we're missing out on that child. That would be my main worry with it. How do you–what do you think about that? L. Jones: That's a great concern to raise, and it's good to know your perspective, like, from having had all that teaching experience. And, you know, things–research changes. We learn new things; we get better over time; we continue to get better. And it's possible that newer, better tools are coming out there.

I'm not an expert; I've just been trying to des per- ately learn about this over the past two years. But what I'd say and what I'd recom mend is that the–whoever is setting –I think that –I think it's out- lined that it would be something that's approved by the Minister of Education.

And I would recom mend that if the Minister of Education could consult with health- allied professionals, such as speech-language pathologists, schools psychologists, et cetera, people who have the training in evidence -based instruction and evidence - based practice who could help you to decide, okay, you know, maybe this other screening method is great; maybe this one's better now; maybe this one works for the student.

But I'd say that in our experience, it's risky to leave it to–leave it open-ended to–you know, we're going to say you need to screen and then it's up to you to figure out how to do that in a best-fit way for you. In our experience, like, my daughter was screened, and it didn't work out well for us. Eventually, we went and got a private screening, and, you know, it's very expensive. Most people can't do that.

October 8, 2025 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 115 And as it turned out, you know, the school was really well intentioned, but they didn't have the train- ing that they needed to read what the screening said. And so they were giving us false reassurance for a long time. The Chairperson: Thank you, Ms. Jones. Mrs. Cook: Thank you so much for your presentation tonight. I'm just a parent.

But I am also a legislator, and I've had the op portunity over the last few months to learn so much from other parents like you, from read- ing clinicians and educators, some of whom are in the room tonight, and from my colleague who introduced the bill. And just so you know, my colleagues and I are fully supportive of this legislation, and we want to see it pass. But thank you for coming here tonight and making your presentation. L. Jones: Thanks. That's great to hear. Thank you. The Chairperson: Thank you for your pre sentation today, Ms. Jones. Next up, we'll have Natalie Riediger. Ms.

Riediger, go ahead, please. Natalie Riediger (Private Citizen): Thank you so much for having me today. My name is Dr. Natalie Riediger. I'm an associate professor of public health nutrition at the Uni versity of Manitoba. But most im portantly, I'm here as a parent of two children with dyslexia who were failed by Manitoba's public education system. And I'm here in support of Bill 225. For my Ph.D. dissertation many years ago, I utilized data from two diabetes screening studies with a Manitoba First Nation commu nity, and so I have expertise with respect to screening.

And I'd like to make several points relevant to my expertise in public health and screening, as well as my experiences as a parent. First, universal screening is a long-standing public health tool. Everyone in this room has been screened, probably a lot, probably more than you even know. Every baby in this province is screened at birth for phenylketonuria, a rare metabolic disorder. As we age, we are screened for many cancers. Sometimes screening is for diseases, but sometimes it isn't. For example, during pregnancy, every woman is screened for Rh factor. My blood type is O Rh negative; that's not a disease.

Both my babies were born Rh positive, and so I received Rh immune globulin. And this prevented me from developing antibodies against another blood type. The eradication of Rh hemolytic disease is one of Manitoba's greatest public health success stories. Screening falls under the broader umbrella of preventive medicine. This includes vaccines, nutri - tional fortification policies, annual physicals and dental cleanings, among others. Universal screening is an optimal public health tool when key criteria are met. * (19:10) Number one: the condition should be a significant public health problem.

Failing to teach a child to read is beyond damaging. The evidence supports illiteracy as a significant public health problem. The vast majority of adverse health out comes follow an educational gradient, such that those with lower levels of educa- tion experience worth–worse health outcomes. Educa- tional attainment, for example, is also the strongest predictor of diet quality. To clarify, so I don't get accused of medicalization, the problem is not dyslexia. The problem is when dyslexia remains unidentified and not accommodated, resulting in a child not meet- ing their full potential in literacy.

A second key criteria for universal screening should be a clear, detectable early phase and benefit to early intervention. Children with dyslexia can learn to read, and the benefits of early inter vention are well esta - blished. Teaching a child to read in later years takes considerably more time. It re quires greater intensity and more resources than when initiated early in kinder- garten. Early inter vention also preserves a child's self-esteem and dignity. A third key component of uni versal screening is that there must be a valid, reliable and cost -effective screening tool.

There are valid screeners for reading that can identify children at risk of learning dis abil- ities, with a high degree of sensitivity, in kindergarten. Sensitivity is a screening test ability to correctly identify true positives, in this case, kids with learning disabilities. I became concerned about my son's language dev- elopment at the age of three, only to be told by both a developmental pediatrician and speech pathologist that they had no concerns. A language-based disability like dyslexia manifests early. Im portantly, screening

116 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2025 results will do so much more than just identify chil- dren's reading ability. Having valid data is a system game changer. The current lack of quality data in the education system is like flying blind with our children. Finally, you only implement uni versal screening when there's an established evidence -based response and plan for follow-up intervention should somebody be screened positively or screened as at risk or not meeting benchmarks.

In the case of screening for reading dif ficulties, we know there are effective evidence-based reading instructional approaches. Indeed, my kids received them, just not in the public school system. Unfortunately, this is where the rubber meets the road. Screening and com municating with parents are the easy parts. What does a school do for a child who's struggling? Currently, not much. The much more difficult issue is the fact that Manitoba schools largely do not provide evidence-based classroom reading instruction, which will render screening less effective.

Nor do many schools provide evidence-based reading interventions, which defeats the purpose of screening. Reading Recovery is a reading program –excuse me–that's been used for over 30 years in Manitoba for grade 1 students. This program and teacher training is associated with the use of Fountas and Pinnell Benchmark Assessment kits and inter vention books, which are not valid assessments. Both my children were in Reading Recovery. Because thousands of teachers received this training in Manitoba, this instruction is also in classrooms.

Reading Recovery is based on a discredited approach to teaching reading, called cueing, or three cueing. The latest research demonstrates children become worse readers when Reading Recovery is used com - pared to similar children who did not receive it. In other words, it's worse than doing nothing. Maybe if the system had decent data, a harmful program wouldn't have gone unchecked for three decades. Witnessing what Reading Recovery did to my child with dyslexia has been one of the most painful experiences of my life. I don't know if we'll ever recover from Reading Recovery.

Another mother whose daughter was in Reading Recovery and later diagnosed with dyslexia described to me that she felt as though her daughter was being abused. In 2022, the landmark Ontario Human Rights Commission Right to Read report spe cifically stated that three cueing should not be used, and yet Reading Recovery training continues to be funded in Manitoba until next year. This response tells me everything I need to know about what the education sector thinks about children with reading dis abilities and their human rights.

Reading about our same experiences in that Ontario Right to Read report, and seeing how easily it was ignored, was hurtful beyond words. One doesn't need to harbour ill intent to hurt children; the absence of empathy and understanding has been enough. The policies and narratives circulating in the edu- cation system reinforce the inferiority of children with dyslexia, their families and the instruction they need. Our kids are called stupid, slow, lazy. The truth is our kids are smart. They're working harder than anyone. Parents are told are you reading to your kids enough?

Maybe they just need to find their Harry Potter. You should accept your child the way they are. The truth is that no amount of reading to a child with dyslexia will teach them to read. A good book is not a substitute for reading instruction and reinforces that the issue is lack of motivation. I love and accept my children. I don't accept ableism in the form of low expectations for them and harmful instruction. The instruction our kids need is often referred to as oppressive, deficit-oriented, boring, kill and drill. I don't accept these negative characterizations.

The truth is pedagogy that produces illiterate chil- dren and harms children can't be anti-oppressive, cul- turally responsive or strength- based. Unfor tunately, ableism precludes the very partici pation and demo- cracy happening here today. How can somebody provide a written statement when no one taught you to write? It is a powerful form of social exclusion and the oppression from the education sector towards children with learning disabilities is intense. I feel a deep responsibility as an ally in this space, as someone with an in credible amount of privilege. I'm here because of my kids, but not for them.

It's too late for us, and the damage is far deeper than just years of lost reading instruction. I'm here for other people's children and families. Every child matters. They have the right to learn to read. They have a right to be screened so their needs are recognized. Dyslexic children deserve to receive a diagnosis of a learning dis ability with dignity, not using the current wait-to-fail model that robs children of their self esteem and well-being.

October 8, 2025 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 117 Families deserve to feel trust in the edu cation system. We all deserve to feel heard. Bill 225 is a very small step in that direction, but we're not done yet. Thank you. The Chairperson: Thank you, Dr. Riediger. Any questions? MLA Lamoureux: I'd like to thank you, Dr. Riediger, for coming out and presenting at tonight's committee and just sharing the information and the facts and the examples, and which you have. It's a lot of new infor- mation.

We've been debating this legis lation now for probably close to eight to 10 months in the House, and you've raised some new points this evening. So thank you for that. I appreciate a distinction between–that dyslexia is not the problem; it's not diagnosing it, and we need to be doing better at that here in Manitoba. I noticed you almost ran out of time, so I just wanted to make sure if there was anything else you wanted to convey you have that opportunity. The Chairperson: Thank you, MLA Lamoureux. N. Riediger: I'm okay, thank you. The Chairperson: Okay. MLA Schmidt–or Minister Schmidt–sorry. Hon.

Tracy Schmidt (Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): Thank you, honourable Chair, and thank you very much, Dr. Riediger. It's nice to see you again. Thank you very much for taking the time to share not only your expertise with the com- mittee, but also your personal experience. Thank you very much. I appreciate the health lens that you put on this discussion and some of the comments you've made that–you know, I can tell you as minister there's two fundamental principles I think about when we're making any sort of policy: one is every child matters.

You said that's sort of centering the best interests of the child at all of our decisions; also health in all policies is something I think about also and how edu- cation really is such an indicator for health out comes and for quality of life for all Manitobans.

You also mentioned in your comments about that in health we screen for things that are not necessarily disease, so I wonder, in reference to Bill 225, if you have any concerns about the fact that this bill speaks specifically about learning disabilities and doesn't talk about other learning difficulties or learning challenges, and what your comments might be in that regard. N.

Riediger: Thank you for that question, and I think rooted in every child matters, I think it doesn't matter why somebody's struggling to read; I think screening is really impor tant at identifying those children's needs regardless of why they're struggling. So I –like–I know there was a comment earlier about whether the title of this bill could be changed. I'm fine with either language. I think it will–screening will support children beyond those who have dyslexia. The Chairperson: Thank you, Dr. Riediger. Mrs. Cook: Hi, Dr. Riediger. * (19:20) Thank you for coming, and you touched on a lot in that pre sentation.

And if I can paraphrase you – please correct me if I'm wrong–but screening is a first step, but we need to change the way we teach kids to read in schools. You talked about the pitfalls of Reading Recovery and the queueing system. Can you, in the brief time we have, talk about what we should be doing instead? N. Riediger: Yes, we should be changing reading instruction to what's referred to as structured literacy.

And that's an evidence -based approach to reading instruction and it really is aligned with a public health approach, because you want classroom instruction to be effective for the greatest number of students so you're not leaving anybody behind. You need to get evidence-based instruction in the classroom because ideally you want to get to, like, 80 per cent of kids meeting benchmark because you– the system can't handle having many children needing tier 2, tier 3 instruction. And so having instruct ion in the classroom that's going to work for the greatest number of students is critical.

The Chairperson: Thank you, Dr. Riediger. Any further questions? Thank you for your presentation. So I don't have a list of any more presenters with children, but I do see some more little ones out there, so I'm wondering if there are folks who have small children who are planning on presenting tonight who are on the list who would like to present before I move on? No? Okay.

118 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2025 So now we're going to move on to in- person but out of town, living-out-of-town presenters. So, Mrs. Tianna Voort. Floor Comment: I'm not out of town, if there's other out of town people that need to present. The Chairperson: Okay, Ms. Ellen Gorter. Please go ahead with your presentation, thank you. Ellen Gorter (Manitoba Literary Alliance): Good evening, and thank you for the opportunity to speak today. My name is Ellen Gorter and I'm not here as a policy maker or an expert but as a mother, a farmer and someone who grew up with undiagnosed dyslexia.

I immigrated to Manitoba as a baby, and, like many new families, my parents worked hard just to make ends meet. They trusted the schools would handle literacy and that if I worked hard and read more I'd eventually learn to read like everyone else. But I went to school during the rollout of the whole language era, when the philosophy was that children would learn to read naturally by being surrounded by books, with little explicit teaching of phonics or decoding skills. Ironically, my parents had grown up in a genera- tion where phonics and sound-based instructions were still part of the reading lessons.

But like many working parents, they followed the advice given to everyone at the time: read more at home. So I did. I worked harder and harder but reading never came easily. Instead, I carried guilt from teachers, from home and from myself, believing I just wasn't trying hard enough. Growing up undiagnosed throughout my school years, I felt isolated and ashamed. I watched other students read and write effortlessly while I stumbled and hid my confusion. No one ever screened me. No one explained that my brain simply processed language differently. That lack of under standing shaped my entire childhood.

I wasn't lazy or incapable; I was dyslexic. But the system didn't know how to recognize it, and as a result I spent years thinking I wasn't smart enough. And by high school I was struggling deeply with my mental health and self-esteem. Fast-forward to today. I'm a mother of two. My daughter thrives in school but my brilliant, brilliant young son is dyslexic, just like me. And when he began struggling with reading, I heard the same advice my parents did decades ago: just read more at home. And we did. And from grade 1 to grade 4, I watched my son's confidence and self -esteem slowly crumble.

Those should have been the years when a child feels secure, curious and full of self worth. And yet, even though I knew how bright and capable he was, creative, thoughtful and full of potential, the school was slowly damaging that self—of worth. He was falling through the cracks of the system, another child quietly drifting from grade to grade, misunderstood and unseen. Eventually, we paid out of pocket for private assessment and finally received an official diagnosis. That moment was both relief and heartbreak: relief to understand and heartbreak that we could've known so much sooner.

That diagnosis didn't just change my son's path; it changed mine. Suddenly, my whole childhood made sense. All those years of confusion and self-doubt weren't a reflection of my ability. They were a result of a system that didn't understand how the brain learns to read. I sometimes grieve for my younger self, the child who could've thrived in a different learning environ- ment with teachers who understood. Since then, I've made it my mission to change the 'tradjectrorary' not just for my son but for every child in Manitoba.

I've immersed myself in the science of reading, the body of research that shows exactly how children lear n to read and why structured, evidence- based instruction works. I've met with countless parents who share similar stories, families working multiple jobs, doing every- thing they can for their kids, but unable to afford private testing or tutoring. There's a clear pattern. Many come from hard -working, lower income back- grounds, and many of these parents themselves struggle with reading. It makes sense: dyslexia is genetics.

But what's heartbreaking is that the system that failed us decades ago is still failing children today. The reality: we are still stuck in the whole-language error. Although some school divisions in Manitoba are starting to adopt the science of reading practices, those efforts are still in their infancy. The whole -language and so-called balanced literacy approaches remain the norm in many classrooms. Teachers are doi ng their best, but they are under immense pressure, managing large classes, diverse needs and outdated training that never equipped them with the tools to teach reading based on brain science.

It's not the teachers' fault. The system hasn't given them the knowledge or the mandate

October 8, 2025 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 119 to change. That's why this bill is so critical. It forces a shift towards data and evidence. And by the time children are finally identified, they've already learned something devastating: that they're not good enough. But that's not true. This isn't a lack of intelligence. The reality is that about one in four children in every classroom struggle with reading or related learning different –differences. And when we don't screen, we don't just delay support; we erode confidence and damage self-worth.

This isn't only an educational issue; it's an equality issue and a human right issue. Every chi ld in Manitoba has a right to learn to read, and every teacher deserves the tools to make that possible. And why uni versal screening matters? Bill 225 ensures that every child in Manitoba's public schools is screened early and systematically for learning disabilities, or what I like to call differences. Early detection changes lives. When kot — in kindergarten or grade 1, structured literacy and target interventions can close the gap before it grows. Uni - versal screening promotes fairness.

Every child, regardless of where they live or what their parents earn, get their fair chance to be seen and supported. Teachers gain clarity. With accurate data and training they can act early instead of reacting and families reacting late. It prevents shame and saves resources. Early inter vention costs far less emotionally, financially than years of frustration and remediation. This bill isn't about more bureaucracy or testing for testing sakes. It's about opening doors and changing outcomes for entire generations of children.

We can't keep telling parents to read more when what's missing is early detection and science -based instruction. We can't keep letting kids slip through cracks because of –teachers haven't been given them the right to–haven't been given the right tools. And as a parent and as a dyslexic adult and as a Manitoban, I'm asking you to pass this bill because no child should grow up thinking they're broken when they're simply being taught in a way their brain doesn't understand.

And when I see my son read now, with pride, con- fidence and joy, because he works with a reading clinician outside of school hours, I am reminded of what's possible when we understand instead of over - look. But every child deserves that kind of inter ven- tion within their school day. * (19:30) Bill 225 will ensure that no child in Manitoba is left behind, and this is our chance to end the cycle and give every child, regardless of background, the funda- mental right to read, to learn and to thrive. Thank you. The Chairperson: Thank you for your pre sentation, Ms. Gorter. Any questions?

MLA Lamoureux: I'd like to just begin by thanking you for your presentation here tonight and sharing your personal ex perience. It's an in credible, vulner- able experience to share. But, again, I've said this before, these are the examples that really help ensure that legislation does go through and becomes legis - lation here in the province. And speaking of your generational story, it is so appre ciated. So thank you for sharing.

My question–it's a big question; you started to touch on it, but what do you think this legis lation would have done for you or for your son if it had been implemented in the schools when you needed it? The Chairperson: Go ahead, Ms. Gorter. E. Gorter: You're asking me if –what it would have done if I was screened? I think it would have gave me a sense of under standing of how I learned and, you know, we–there's no hiding it; there's no confusion. And I think–the other presenter touched on it. I think we could–if we use science in the classroom, more kids could learn.

And so –sorry, I'm not very good at answering questions. The Chairperson: It's great. Thank you, Ms. Gorter. MLA Schmidt: Thank you very much for your pre - sentation, for sharing your exper ience with us and your opinions about Bill 225. And I think I just want to say, first of all, how much I agree with so much of what you said, and that our government agrees about the need for early inter- vention and the need for early uni versal screening tools.

And that's exactly why our govern ment, in April, proceeded with a ministerial directive to make sure that school divisions across the province have the mandate from the provincial government to use evidence- based, comprehensive universal early reading screen - ing tools. Because we bel ieve, like you do, that that early intervention, that early diagnosis or identifica - tion, is so vitally important.

120 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2025 So perhaps not a question; I just wanted to express, again, my thanks for your pre sentation and also how much we agree with you. Thank you so much. The Chairperson: Did you want to respond to that, Ms. Gorter? E. Gorter: Yes, that's great. It can't come soon enough, I think. Mrs. Cook: Hi. Thank you so much for coming. I don't have a specific question. I just know you've been here for a couple hours already, and we ap- preciate you sharing your story. It helps us do our jobs. E. Gorter: Thank you. The Chairperson: Any other questions?

MLA Lamoureux: I just want to put on record that I think it's impor tant to point out that the release that came out after the legis lation had been introduced speaks to some of the infor mation in the legis lation, but it does not, in fact, legis late it. So there's no real commitment; there's no follow -up, no accountability to ensure that the school divisions are, in fact, imple- menting two screenings a year.

It also does not commit to allowing parents to have the results of what the schools find, and it does not commit to having the school boards come up with ways and resources to then help the students who have been screened. That's why the legislation is important. E. Gorter: Yes, exactly. That's–those key points are super im portant: accountability and communication and screening and–yes. The Chairperson: Thank you. Any further questions? Thank you for your presentation, Ms. Gorter. Next up, we have Josee Adrian. In the room today? No? Okay, we will move on to Ms. Jeanne Hudek. Okay, Michelle Depner.

We'll try Mrs. Alicia Smith. Ms. Angela Yaskiw. Mr. Marko Bebek? And Lois Cormier. Thank you. Please go ahead with your presentation. Lois Cormier (Private Citizen): Thank you for having us here this evening. My name is Lois Cormier, and I come to you today as a mother of an adult child with learning disabilities; a grandmother of 11, nine with disabilities; and also a retired law enforcement officer.

I was a school liaison officer in a high school for eight years where I was–worked tirelessly with the youth at risk, which I found all the majority had learning dis - abilities when I was dealing with the youth in the schools. But I'm here today to talk to you about the impacts that are affecting our children and families that many realize and don't realize the learning differences and dyslexia on this international dyslexia day when we're all wearing red. It's kind of unique that we're here on this day. These are not rare challenges.

They're real, lifelong differences in the way that people learn, process and express information and yet too often they go unnoticed, misunderstood or misinterpreted in classrooms that affect everyday living across our province. The unfortunate part of the challenges that a high percentage of our youth without supports with the learning dis abilities end up in our criminal justice system, within our social services, our mental health, addictions and poverty. When I was in law e nforce- ment, my first question with youth was: how are you in school?

And that deter mined to me what I was dealing with and where I could assist. Focusing on their strengths, changing classes to a teacher that would be more under standing, offering tutoring, whatever could help them to be suc cessful. Children with learning dis abilities, like dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, dyspraxia or ADHD, are just as intelligent, capable and creative as their peers, but without the right support they can quickly fall behind, not because they can't learn but because we haven't learned how to teach them the way they need. That's why this conversation matters. That's why we're here.

We need more edu cation and training for our teachers and educational assistants. These are the people who spend every day with our children, guiding them, shaping their confi dence and helping them believe in their own potential. Yet many of them that enter the classroom are entering without the proper tools or knowledge to identify or support a child with dyslexia or other learning differences. Imagine how powerful it would be if every teacher could recognize the signs early, if every classroom

October 8, 2025 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 121 had strategies in place to help those struggling readers thrive rather than fall through the cracks. When teachers understand learning disabilities, they don't just change lesson plans, they'll change a life. This isn't just an education issue; it's a human issue. Every child deserves to be seen, understood and capable, and every educator deserves the training and support to make that happen.

When I ask my grandchildren what message I could relate for them–I don't want to cry–they said, please ask them to get more training for teachers and train the educational assistants so they'll learn how to teach us and how they can talk to us. We aren't lazy. We try our best, even though the teacher gives me 20 per cent. My binder and my locker are a mess, and that's how my brain functions, so try and understand me. I need time. Don't get mad at me for sitting looking at the whiteboard, telling me to write every thing when I can't even understand what is written and I don't even know where to start.

Don't tell me that you know I can do it and I choose not to when I'm already trying. Don't tell me to sit in a math class for a semester, to just sit there, not do the work, I won't get a credit, but I have to sit there to get used to sitting in a math class. And if I decide to start doing some work, then maybe the school will look at giving me a credit. But that's up to me, if I want to.

I want to do math, but I'm really struggling because I don't understand. * (19:40) So today I'm asking for a stronger awareness, better teacher edu cation, more inclusive learning environ- ments because when we invest in understanding learn- ing disabilities, we invest in the future success and the well-being of every child. I really think that edu cation, social services, the judicial system and health –we're all dealing with the same people. So all the funding that's going out to those different–like the different areas–we're all deal- ing with those same people.

And I would love, at one point–I don't know if it's ever been done, but I really think there needs to be a study to see how many chil- dren have gone into the justice system that are dealing with the learning disabilities as well as the adults. I was–I did go to Europe because I wasn't getting the answers I was getting –needed in Canada, and I went to a conference in England last September and spoke to a counsellor that was in a youth jail. And she said 85 per cent of her clients had learning disabilities.

So if we could give those children and students self-confidence in the classroom, self-confidence goes a long way in life, and I think, looking at my grand- children and other children–and I'm here from Thompson, and so I have a lot of people that have also been chirp- ing in my ear –and the self -confidence piece that they're not gaining in the classroom or in the school is huge, and without self-confidence in life, you don't go very far. So thank you very much for listening to me. The Chairperson: Thanks so much, Ms. Cormier.

MLA Lamoureux: I want to–it's more of a comment than a question, but I want to thank you for your pre- sentation and all that you've contributed to our educa- tion system over the years in your roles as your profession, as a mother, as a grandmother and for even being here tonight and continuing to speak for better education in our province. I very much appre ciate the connection to the judicial system.

I think it's very impor tant that we highlight how here in Manitoba we have some of the lowest literacy rates throughout Canada, and we know that uni versal screening is working well in o ther provinces, including Alberta, Saskatchewan more recently, New Brunswick, and by bringing legislation like this here to the province, our literacy rates can only go up, and that will, in turn, be reflected in our judicial system. The Chairperson: Ms. Cormier, would you like to respond? L. Cormier: Yes, I'd have to agree. You wouldn't – you can't imagine how many people can't write their names.

And so I know when we're policing and you have to sign a document if you've been charged or being released, and so many Xs. So we do have a huge issue here in Manitoba with reading and writing and other learning disabilities. MLA Cross: Thank you for sharing your experiences as a school resource officer. Thank you for your ser - vice because I know how challenging that work can be. One thing you said that really struck a chord with me was about confidence, talking about when students feel confident.

Not only when they feel confident do they do better but they feel like they belong, and I think that's a big word that we haven't rea lly said. Belonging is probably the biggest key to success for students. If they don't have that confidence, they don't feel like they belong with the rest of the kids. So thank you for articulating things the way that you did.

122 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2025 The Chairperson: Thanks, MLA Cross. Did you want to respond to that, Ms. Cormier? L. Cormier: I have to agree, because if they don't belong, they go find a gang to belong to, and that's unfortunately–classroom. I've seen where they've had phenomenal teachers and they've done phenomenal work with those students, and they have not made it into the judicial system, which their friends and family have. And so confi dence is huge, and that builds a sense of belonging. The Chairperson: Thank you, Ms. Cormier. Mrs. Cook: Thank you, Ms. Cormier, for coming tonight.

I think you touched on a lot of things in that presentation, but you did a really good job of articulating the risks of not screening and not intervening and the downstream effects of that. So thank you for articulating that so clearly. I don't actually have a –any further question for you, but I wanted to thank you. The Chairperson: Any other questions? Thank you for your pre sentation, Ms. Cormier. Much appreciated. Next I have Angelina Hartwell. Okay, next we have Kim Van Nieuw Amerongen. Hi, there. Thanks for being here tonight. You can go ahead with your presentation.

Kim Van Nieuw Amerongen (Private Citizen): Well, hello, and good evening, all. My name is Kim Van Nieuw Amerongen, and honestly, I'm quite the ball of nerves up here right now. It might be shocking to those who know me, but I'm normally on the sidelines. I'm more of a cheerleader than the person out front. But tonight, I'm up here because it's some thing more important than my fear of public speaking. It's about my kids and the future. A lot of people up here have brought up a lot of wonderful studies and information. I don't have that; I'm simply a mom.

I could reference my younger brother who, even though he was caught with his learning difficulties and dis abilities young, teac hers didn't have the knowledge, and he is currently in the justice system as we speak. I'm here to talk about my kids, though, as a mom. Rowan is my youngest child, and when at the age of two, his dad and I were worried about his lack of recognizable words. A quick ask at the doctor's office led us to free screening for hearing and speech issues, and then three wonderful years of free in-home speech therapy, provided by Manitoba Possible.

Now, all in an effort to prepare him for school and the world as a whole, this speech inter vention con- tinued through school up until grade 3 where he graduated. It was some thing he was very proud of. I mean, as a parent, this was great. I had limited things to do; it was put in front of me, it was easy, it was great, it was what I expected. Well, once he got to school, he thrived otherwise. From kindergarten on, though, his English and French grades were coming home as ND, so not demonstrated, or one on a five - point system.

And every semester, a week or two before report cards were sent home, I would get the obligatory call from his teacher, you know, the reminder they have to tell us if the student's coming home with some thing less than a two, and telling me not to worry, though, that Rowan had these not developings and these ones, that he was doing great otherwise; all stu dents come along in their own time and that, you know, he was doing great. Well, Rowan had a really great rapport with all of his teachers in elementary school, and every one of them had all these wonderful things to say about him.

But every single one of them let it slide that he could not read or write at the same level of his peers. Year after year, the gaps got worse. No matter how many questions we asked, we were told not to worry. Yet, before every report card was issued, that call would come, advising us that he was not thriving in the specific subjects that required reading and writing, but overall was doing great. I got to say overall, though, his teachers did do great, trying to accommodate him without a diagnosis, finding ways for him to show that he had the knowledge he needed in his head; he was just unable to write it down.

This only worked because Rowan was admittedly a teacher's pet, and he loves to learn, and he shows it with every fibre of his being when he's accommodated. But provi ding accommodations can only go so far if you don't know what you're accom - modating for. I asked when my son struggled more than my daughter, three years his senior, at basic reading and writing since first grade. At first, it was simply 'attribulo' to every child and their own timeline. Then I started beating myself up. I mean, I was thinking that we hadn't been spending enough time with him, that simply buckling down and reading with him every

October 8, 2025 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 123 night would fix whatever this was. I was asking his teachers if I should be worried, and was I told no, no, he understands, it's fine, it'll come along with time. Time, it did pass. When we would go to parent conferences where Rowan would show us his work, there was nothing completed. Paper after paper of written work left undone, half done or done in a way that you could not read without a cipher. * (19:50) The non-developings–and non-displays in the ones continued for English and French.

My child coming home crying because another kid would whisper how stupid he was into his ear each time he needed help. Time, lots of time for him to feel that there is something fun- damentally wrong with him, time where proper sup - port for a dis ability would have made a world of difference in a young boy's self -confidence and self- worth, where a school meant to teach basic—meant to teach the basics to children could ha ve supported his basic need to learn how to read and write. Now, fifth grade, we're given what was referred to as a golden ticket.

Now, please let me stress: Rowan's case seems to be an anomaly. Rowan had teaching staff that fell in love with him and forced the issue before middle school. They were able to have a school division psychologist complete a psychological evaluation. The result: my grade 5 child could read at the same level as a kindergarten child.

The only reason he was thriving in all subjects other than his English and French at all is because he loved to learn and found ways, using context clues, to absorb the information the text was trying to provide and was able to prove to his teachers usi ng methods other than traditional pen and paper tests. My son is incredibly intelligent, and it shows how much harder he's had to work than his peers to com - plete the same tasks. Picture somebody who needs glasses to see the white board clearly but has never been told this.

All the infor mation they need to com - plete their task is written on that board, but they're not allowed to get up and see the board more clearly. They can only work with what's in front of them and they see their classmates completing the same task with ease while they struggle to understand where to start. This was Rowan's reality. While the diagnosis was a milestone as it provided a label and a rough idea for a way forward, it came at a very awkward time in Rowan's learning.

A transition from early years to middle school, a new school, a new teacher and let's not forget all the other kids' exper - ience starting their teenage years. At the beginning of my story, I spoke about when Rowan was two and we were concerned about his speech. The solution was so simple, and integrated into the schooling, we figured, once again, when we asked: now we know what's wrong, what do we do? I anti - cipated my child would be put into some sort of class especially developed for children with dyslexia to get him up to speed, or that he'd be offered additional tutoring.

To be told that nothing would be done other than to provide him with an— a tablet as an accommodation blew my mind. In reality, where in the sixth grade curriculum, though, could you even have time to teach a child to read and write? This is a skill that should have been mastered long before now. Rowan's middle school career has now been a constant battle back and forth between myself and the school, trying to find the best mix of technolo gy and other resources for Rowan to be suc cessful. Some days I feel the school's my ally; other days it feels like they're my enemy. My family is not well off.

However, we did, for a time, pay out of pocket for dyslexia - specific tutoring at a cost of over $600 a month. The difference we saw in the short six months we were able to afford it blew my mind. If the screening could have been provided early in Rowan's school career, this kind of intervention could have been done long before now and it could have been done in the classroom to allow my son to have the same basic command of reading and writing as his peers. And did you know they think that dyslexia has a genetic component?

Don't ask to see the rough draft of the speech; I use talk to text throughout as a tool to accommodate my inability to spell, some thing that I was mocked and ridiculed for throughout my school career. This also means my grandchildren could very well face the same difficulties with reading and writing my child has. Wouldn't it be a crying shame if my son has to face the same difficulties obtaining help for his children as I do for him because nobody thought it was important enough now?

Bill 225 is simply asking that we make sure each child has equal opportunity to learn and thrive, provi- ding the basic foundation they need to function in society after school.

124 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2025 Please pass this bill because basic literacy is a right. The Chairperson: Thank you, Ms. Van Nieuw Amerongen. We will now go to questions. Are there any questions? MLA Lamoureux: I just want to –it's more of a comment again than a question, but I do want to say that you shouldn't be on the sidelines. You're incred - ibly well-spoken and well articulate and I hope you consider being upfront and centre more often.

I want to thank you for speaking to how this legis- lation could have impacted your own child's exper - ience in school and for sharing your personal experience and again what your family has had to go through to get to where you are today. K. Van Nieuw Amerongen: Thank you for that. MLA Schmidt: Thank you very much for your pre - sentation. I didn't get to catch some of it; I had to run out. I just want to apologize to you and to the rest of the presenters and just to explain I feel very honoured and privileged to be here as the minister responsi ble, and I want to be able to hear everyone's presentations.

But I do have a bill amending the public schools act in the other com mittee room, so I just wanted to explain that to yourself and the other presenters that if I do have to leave the room, it's not because I don't find your pre sentations valuable and important. It's just because I do have responsibilities in another com- mittee room. So thank you very much, and I apologize. I know that my friends here were here listening and that the bill's sponsor here was listening, so thank you very much. Thank you, honourable Chairperson. K. Van Nieuw Amerongen: I'm good. Mrs. Cook: Thank you so much for coming.

I think you've done a really skillful job of identifying what the gaps are in a child's typical journey through the education system when we don't identify learning difficulties early on, and the ways the system, as it's currently set up, fails to support them. And that's really important for us to know, so thank you. K. Van Nieuw Amerongen: I'm currently in –you know, a heated discussion with my school over my son's access to his tablet, and whether the classroom teacher understands the IEP that was laid out for him by the division's psychologist.

And we've had the same conversation with his teachers each year for three years. It would be great to see training, more so along- side this bill, to make sure that the teachers actually have the skills, to make sure that these students weren't just told they're dyslexic and deal with it. The Chairperson: Thank you, Ms. Van Nieuw Amerongen. Mr. Tyler Blashko (Lagimodière): Hi. Just wanted to say thank you so much for your presentation. And I think I heard that your children were also learning French.

So I was curious, are there particular nuances and experiences that we should know as folks consid- ering this bill, for those people navigating learning dis- abilities in multiple languages? K. Van Nieuw Amerongen: Yes. My kids both attend a French immersion school, and what it comes down to is they're going to exper ience these dif ficulties no matter which language they learn in. It's a language-processing problem, not an English language problem. So I have been told that while my son will–you know, if we're able to afford to put him back into private tutoring, will succeed in mastering the English language.

For French and other languages, he will most likely always need some sort of electronic assist- ance, unless a similar program is developed and he were to decide to take that course for learning how to spell in another language. The Chairperson: Thank you. Are there any further questions? Thank you for your presentation this evening. Next up, we have Mr. Chris deBoer. Please proceed with your presentation. Chris deBoer (Private Citizen): Good evening. Thank you, Chair, and committee members. My name is Dr.

Chris deBoer, an educational doctorate in organizational improve ment, and I'm very excited by the initiative here to screen and to do early interventions to help our –all of our students learn. And I think that's, of course, crucial. And I've been listening to the pre sentations, and they are all very personal and valuable and I've been learning a lot just being here this evening and learning from the previous presenters.

October 8, 2025 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 125 And I think what we often hear is that the –it's going to be one thing to screen and find the disability, the learning disability, assess it, diagnose it –is going to be the lion's share of the work, working with those disabilities, those challenges. This is only a first step, once the students are assessed and diagnosed. Again, a multitude of work will need to be done to help our teachers, our EAs, our resource teachers implement the necessary strategies to help all students learn. And so this –I understand that this can only be a first step.

In my school, we also have students diagnosed with dyslexia. We are doing right brain, left brain connectivity. We are doing also reading assess- ments in various grades. I suppose–and if I'm ignorant, I apologize–I understand why people want this bill passed. My concern with the bill is that we're assessing students eight times, if I understand the bill correctly– that we're going to assess every child from kinder - garten to grade 3 eight times. * (20:00) We don't know what the tool is that's going to be used–earlier mentioned, can we use one tool to assess all students?

I'm concerned about who's going to do the assessment. Is it a written assessment? Edu ca- tional psychologists are looking not only at wha t a child is writing, but–not even what they're just speaking but also how they're behaving. It's a multi - faceted assessment to learn whether or not a child has a learning disability.

So I'm concerned that we're going to be asking– either we're not going to have the right people doing it, or they're not going to get the right training, or they're not going to have the right screening and that we're not going to be able to accomplish the goals that so many here, and I, myself, hope to achieve. In our school, we do assessments of all students in kindergarten and grade 1, and we do that in the fall, then again in the spring. But after grade 1, we would do it based on teacher assessment in the classroom.

As teachers recog nize that students are st ruggling with their writing or with their mathematics, literacy or numeracy, we then do another assessment. We then come up with a plan; we then reach out to the educa- tional psychologist, perhaps, for further assessment, et cetera. And I think the big challenge many of us are struggling with is ADHD which –I'm not sure which definition of learning dis ability we're using, but not just any teacher can assess ADHD, and there's no simple screening. You need to be an educational psychologist or a psychologist to achieve that goal.

And so while I appre ciate the intent of the bill, I do think that this bill needs to be strengthened by being more carefully considered for imple mentation, and also whether or not, really, we need to be assessing students eight times. So students who are in grade 2 that have a reading ability of grade 5–grade 4, grade 5, depending on the screening–if we've done this assessment, why are we assessing them again? And just as I read the bill, there's just no exceptions. There's no–every child in kindergarten to grade 3 must be assessed eight times.

And I really don't know that that's the best use of our time and resources. Can we catch the ones that need it by assessing them early and then where there's classroom evidence, because I think that's the other thing. Maybe we're concerned that teachers are not identifying students that are struggling. Maybe there's a mis communica- tion between classroom teacher and resource teacher. I'm not sure where that's falling.

But I'm also not sure that the solution is eight assessments of every kid, two per year, especially when we know that some of these kids are really doing very, very well and we know that they don't have a reading dis ability. We see that they're excelling in mathematics, then why would we insist on assessing them further. So that would just be my concern. And I support the bill's intent. I'd just ask that you might consider amending it carefully so that you make the best use of resources as you are able. Thank you. The Chairperson: Thank you, Mr. deBoer.

MLA Lamoureux: I want to use this oppor tunity to try and answer some of the questions in which you are asking here this evening. Why do students require two screenings as opposed to one? It has been noted that students may regress in their learning, and as such, having a benchmark near the beginning of the year and the end of the year will help provide context as to whether students are on track. In addition to that, a minimum of two assess- ments will also ensure that those who have transferred schools throughout the year will be screened at least one time.

This is especially relevant for children who are in care, newcomers and other vulnerable groups.

126 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2025 And why the eight times? In this case, K to 3, and it has been recom mended to take it even further, to grade 4 or grade 5–this is based off much consultation, how it's practised in other– The Chairperson: Sorry, MLA Lamoureux. We'll just have to interrupt. We do have a 45-second time limits on questions. Mr. deBoer, did you want to respond to what you got to hear? C. deBoer: I appreciate the explanation.

Yes, and you kind of wish that there would be greater communication between schools so that if a child has been missed, that they would be screened in the new school. I totally appreciate doing the best to catch all. But I wonder, again, if that's going to be the best use of resources if a child is in the same school, to be assessed eight times by law. MLA Schmidt: Thank you, Mr. deBoer, for your pre- sentation. I wholeheartedly agree with you when you say that you agree with the spirit and intent of this law. I think that all of our committee members would agree with you in that case.

As I mentioned before, we all, I think, agree that universal early reading screeners are important. That's why our govern ment introduced them in April. We went beyond K to 3, which this bill is asking for. We have mandated a K-to-4 screener. We also, I think, agree on the need for some flexibility. So in our ministerial directive, what we've asked schools to do is, in K to 4, twice a year screening unless it's determined that that screening's not neces - sary, because we know that we ask a lot of teachers and teachers are doing a lot.

And if those two screenings a year to ensure that benchmarks are met are– The Chairperson: Minister Schmidt, sorry, I'll have to interrupt you. The 45 seconds for the question are up. C. deBoer: No, I appre ciate that. I think that flexi- bility is going to be crucial to its success, otherwise, this will–I'm afraid it won't be successful.

And I also think it would be great to have a larger debate or discussion on other assessment tools that are being used, like the grade 3 assessment tool and the grade 7, because I find a lot of them a little bit –yes, not as effective as they should be or helping us achieve goals that we might want to. But that's for a rainy day, I suppose. Mrs. Cook: Hi, Mr. deBoer. Thank you for coming and presenting on this bill as well. One of the features of this process is that–and it's a feature, not a bug–is that we–it gives everybody an opportunity to come and present and present their views.

And I think that diversity of opinion makes for a stronger process on our end. So thank you for coming. I don't have a question. The Chairperson: Mr. deBoer? C. deBoer: No, no comment. Just, yes, again appre - ciate the spirit of the goal, so keep it up. MLA Lamoureux: I just want to continue with my answer: so why again screen from K to 3. Students in this grade level have very malleable brains. They are primed for learning, to read during this time, as it is at the most critical time to, in fact, intervene. That's why these grades were chosen.

And what does this screening actually look like, what does it entail when we compare it to other provinces? And, of course, the minister, at the end of the day, will have the final say on what the resource is, but elsewhere it is a two- to three-minute test. It is very short. It is a one -on-one conver sation, often involving a teacher, an EA or other specialist identifying words and talking. C. deBoer: That makes me more nervous; about the two- to three-minute thing, but okay. MLA Cross: Thank you for presenting and bringing your experiences forward as someone who is in the education system.

I liked a lot of what you said around assessment, as someone who has taught at all different levels. For me–for those that don't know, there's different kinds of assessment. We have formative, we have summative. Good teachers do ongoing assessment all year long, right? All year long. We know that. And so I'm assuming in your school that is some- thing that's happening when you're talking about your concerns about screening and doing it so many times. Is that because you know assessment is an ongoing thing in your school?

C. deBoer: Yes, absolutely and we're –my resource teacher is talking to the classroom teachers all the time and their class sizes are about 25-ish. And, yes, we're

October 8, 2025 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 127 making sure that the teachers and the resource teacher are having those conversations. So, yes, that's correct. The Chairperson: Thank you, Mr. deBoer. Thank you for your presentation. And I will just remind com mittee members that the 45 seconds for questions are intended for ques - tions and not as necessarily just explanations or of further speeches. The responses can go into greater detail, if they would like. Next, we'll have Ms. Karen Sharma. Thank you for being here with us. You can go ahead with your presentation.

Karen Sharma (Manitoba Human Rights Commission): Thank you very much. I'm pleased to join you this evening on behalf of the Manitoba Human Rights Commission to put a few words on the record regarding Bill 225, The Public Schools Amendment Act (Univer sal Screening for Learning Disabilities). If passed, this law will ensure that all students in Manitoba's public education system are proactively screened for learning dis abilities–in particular, for reading dis abilities, reading dif ficulties or dis abil- ities–and that this infor mation will be shared with students, parents, guardians and families.

As you may know, the Human Rights Com mis- sion is an in dependent agency of the govern ment of Manitoba, responsi ble for enforcing the rights and responsibilities set out in Manitoba's Human Rights Code through a complaints process and by promoting human rights through education, research and public advocacy. * (20:10) In 2023–you might be wondering why I'm here – so in 2023 we launched an initiative entitled Supporting the Right to Read in Manitoba, which explores the pathway to ensuring that every student in our province is able to access their fun damental right to learn to read, a right that has been recog nized since 2008 by the Supreme Court of Canada in the landmark Moore decision.

This project began as, really, a result of com mu- nity advocacy. The commission was approached by a group of concerned students and parents who were not receiving the supports that they needed to learn to 'rean'–read equitably in Manitoba schools. Their con- cerns, combined with the efforts of our colleague human rights commissions across Canada to explore this issue, led us to initiate this project and we're planning, actually, to release our phase 1 report later this month, and I'm drawing on some of our learnings through this phase of our project to present to you today.

We are focused on this critical issue because we appreciate that a failure to develop early reading skills has significant impacts on a student's later academic performance throughout K to 12, but they don't end there. We have heard countless stories–you've heard them this evening–of how dif ficulties learning to read can impact a student's con fidence in their academic abilities, their overall self-esteem and lead to sig nifi- cant mental health concerns.

This is consistent with academic research, which finds that too many students and parents that are impacted by this issue ex perience depression and anxiety, experience school avoidance, bullying, feel - ings of, very concern ingly, self -harm and suicidal ideation. And we know that the long-term consequences of low literacy are significant. It can impact employment opportunities and result in lower income, poverty and homelessness; and we have discussed and see in data how individuals with low literacy are overrepresented in our criminal justice system.

In this way, reading is a key that unlocks a person's access to a matrix of rights, opportunities and possibilities. As part of our project, we wanted to explore the issue of early screening because it's one of our key pillars that we're examining as part of this initiative, and we've really come to understand that it is an essential component for suc cessfully supporting and teaching all students to read. Early screening–we've chatted about this tonight– is a data-gathering tool to determine which learners in a classroom may encounter reading dif ficulties.

They're meant to be fast, informal and evidence - based; that's critical. They should provide data t hat can be interpreted and used to predict future possible reading challenges. And the practice of early screen - ing is intended to contribute to successful and inclusive approaches to teaching literacy skills, by proactively determining which students m ay require additional support in learning to read and what those supports should be. Early screening is a key component of building those foundational literacy skills and that lifelong relationship with reading that is so crucial. Simply

128 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2025 put, it gives educators, caregivers and learners the opportunity and the tools, as early as possible, to know about possible reading dif ficulties and, impor tantly, do something about them. The longer we wait to intervene in a learner's challenges with reading, the less likely they are to respond positively to inter vention and the more dif - ficult reading becomes and the less likely a learner will be motivated to read or find joy in it.

Early screening is also a component of a human- rights-informed approach to literacy and teaching in schools because it allows educators to proactively identify barriers and, in alignment with uni versal design for learning principles, work to remove them through strong, responsive, data -informed and what we call tiered instruction.

The peer -reviewed research on early screening for literacy, as well as the data gathered through our special project demonstrates over whelmingly that acting early to identify and address reading difficulties is the far superior approach to delaying intervention and–or waiting to see if a learner's reading skills will improve on their own.

The negative tangible impact articulated by our special project parti cipants and some of those per - spectives you've heard this evening of not screening, screening infrequently, delayed screening, inconsistent screening practices, using improper screening tools or incorrectly using a proper screening tool –so in a practice that isn't meant by the tool itself –and not properly screening–using screening data, all of that has been shown to be really signi ficant in a student's outcome.

And I think it's impor tant to high light that early screening is a clear recommendation of the Minister's Advisory Council on Inclusive Education, who, in their 2022 report, note, and I quote: assessment and resulting data collection improves student outcomes and teacher efficacy, strengthen inclusive practices and ensure a clear, cohesive, consistent understanding of ap propriate instruction, assessment and reporting for all students.

The data gathered at provincial divisional school and studen t levels will help inform decisions about ongoing resourcing and support and provide clear, consistent information for parents. End quote. Now, we know that the Province is already moving ahead with plans with respect to early screening. In– as we continue to make these impor tant strides in strengthening early screening for reading dif ficulties and disabilities, we're cognizant of a few lessons learned from our project that I wanted to share here tonight.

It's really important to have a clear and common understanding of what constitutes an early screener. It should be evidence -based, reliable, objective and measurable. That's important because we heard con - sistently that different educators, different divisions have some differing ideas about what an early screener really is. Another issue that we heard about was that even, again, when an ap propriate screening tool has been used, it–we can't always guarantee that it will be used appropriately. For example, evidence-based screeners are accompanied by parti cular parameters.

T hey're intended to be used in particular ways. And it's impor- tant because if they're not used appropriately, that could be impactful in terms of the data that we're gathering. So, very im portant that screeners be used not only as they're intended, but in the ways that is set by the screener itself. And we've heard con sistently through our en- gagements with the public and with educators about how important it is that the screener not end there, that the data gained from screening inform instructional practice.

We heard from participants in our special project that there really is a missing link between screening outcomes and what happens next, that screening can't be a stand-alone practice; it has to be a link in a chain of events that 'stets' –sets students up for the best possible success at learning to read. Once a screening has been administered, the data or information from that screening must be interpreted and used to inform teaching praxis, including focused instruction and inter vention for some students if needed.

Many participants that we spoke w ith–parti- cularly practitioners, clinicians and educators –noted that among making the link between screening and turning data into action will take time, training and support for educators, parents and students alike. And many have expressed to us that t hey had to educate themselves about the screener that they used and it's important as we roll this out that educators have support in doing so. So finally, early screening cannot exist in a vacuum.

It has to be accompanied by the other tenets of strong reading instruction: direct, explicit, systematic, evidence-based instruction; reading interventions that are supported by evidence and available to all students that need them; accommodation not in pl ace of, but

October 8, 2025 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 129 as a support to good reading instruction; timely and accessible professional assessments; and very impor- tantly, particularly for the rollout of early screening, ongoing professional dev elopment for all those involved in this work that is job-embedded, robust and flexible to meet the needs of all educators. So I'll conclude my remarks there. In effect, we wanted to ensure that our learnings are reflected here this evening and speak to the importance of early screening in a com prehensive approach to reading instruction as a human rights-based issue.

Thank you. The Chairperson: Thank you, Ms. Sharma. MLA Lamoureux: Thank you, Ms. Sharma, for your presentation and just all the work that you've done with early screening in your role at the Manitoba Human Rights Commission. My question for you is, could you speak a little bit to the importance as to why the idea of early screening needs to be legislated and regulated and not just verbalized? K. Sharma: Yes, thank you for that question.

I think that what we need to ensure is a strong, comprehensive provincial commitment to early screen- ing and one that links practices of early screening to strong evidence and that has a really strong approach in terms of rollout if it is going to be suc cessful, so that educators are really supported through good, job-embedded, ongoing, robust profession al training to do the screening in an effective way; but then, really, to use that data to inform instructional practice. * (20:20) So in whatever form that takes, the im portant thing is that we have a robust province-wide ap

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	43-2-sed5
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	43rd 2nd hansardpdf sed5.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	d178a2de04c96b8c88d98cf713c052373b367e20

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