April 13, 2004 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 15

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

This afternoon we would like to welcome to the gallery, Mr. John Crane, up in

the top gallery here. Mr. Crane was a former MHA for District of Harbour Grace,

and former Chair of Committees. I do believe he was elected in 1989 and 1993.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair would like to rule on a point of order raised by

the Opposition House Leader on Thursday, April 8, 2004, concerning protocol and

pertinent practices regarding the recognition of visitors in the galleries.

In their presentations, both the Opposition House Leader and the Premier

acknowledged that the issue was one more of clarification than a substantive

point of order.

The Speaker has reviewed the practice of our House and finds that Premiers

and Cabinet Ministers have, from time to time, extended greetings to persons in

both the Speaker's gallery and the public galleries. In fact, it has not been

uncommon in the past for ministers to invite individuals and groups to the

public galleries at a time when Ministerial Statements were being read or bills

were being introduced, and at that time to recognize these persons as being in

the gallery.

Our Standing Orders are silent on this matter and the Chair is not sure that

past practices should be classed as tradition in our House; however, all

parliamentary references including Erskine May, Beauchesne, and Marleau

and Montpetit clearly indicate that recognition of persons in the galleries

to be the exclusive prerogrative of the Speaker. In general terms, all members

should refrain from conversing with visitors from the floor of the House and

this includes references in speeches or Ministerial Statements or at times when

legislation is being introduced. On the other hand, the Speaker is always happy

to welcome visitors to the public gallery and, to that end, encourages visitors

to view our proceedings from the galleries.

Thank you very much.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: Members' statements today, we have statements by the hon.

the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans, the hon. the Member for Humber Valley, and

the hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to extend congratulations to the

Randell family of Grand Falls-Windsor on an outstanding accomplishment, which I

believe might be a first for Central Newfoundland.

On March 19, Mervin and Tina Randell, along with their sons Ryan and Joshua,

received their black belts in the sport of Tae Kwon Do. The Randell family work

out at the local Tae Kwon Do Club of Coombs, Scott and Associates which started

six years ago in Grand Falls-Windsor.

The Randell family attended a testing session in St. John's on March 19 and

were presented their Black Belts by The Grand Master, a fourteen-time Korean

National Champion and two-time World Champion in Tae Kwon Do.

Tina Randell indicated that the five guiding principles of Tae Kwon Do -

perseverance, self-control, indomitable spirit, integrity and courtesy - are

what really sold her on this sport, and highly recommends it as a family

activity.

I ask all hon. members to join with me in congratulating Mervin, Tina, Ryan

and Joshua Randell on this remarkable family achievement.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate the Deer Lake Red

Wings Girls Hockey Team who won their first provincial hockey tournament in Baie

Verte last weekend.

The girls played the host team of Baie Verte in the championship game and won

by a score of four to one. These girls range in age from thirteen to seventeen

years old. They have only been playing together for two years and were

successful against five other teams.

Last night at the opening of the Midget Tournament in Deer Lake, a banner to

commemorate the first female provincial hockey tournament win was raised in the

Deer Lake Arena.

These girls were not the favorites to win the tournament; however, their

dedication, their coaching, and the support of their parents was strong and they

were able to play great hockey.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. members to join me today in congratulating the

Deer Lake Red Wings Girls Hockey Team on their win.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to extend

congratulations to a group of students from my district who are members of the

Pallister Players of Templeton Collegiate High School's drama club. This group

recently won best production in this year's School District #3 drama showdown

for their performance of the play, Reality Check. The play, written by the

school's drama coach and festival co-ordinator, Steve Perchard, also received

recognition in playwriting.

The three-day festival was held April 1 to April 3 at the North Shore

Elementary auditorium in Meadows. Eight drama clubs competed at the festival for

a chance to represent the Humber-Bay Of Islands district at the 2004

Newfoundland and Labrador High School Drama Festival to be held May 6 to May 8

in Woody Point.

In addition to this win, Templeton actors Andrew Ricketts and Adam Pardy were

named the best actor and best supporting actor, respectively. The Templeton cast

also included Michael Barriault, Amanda Kennedy, Robert Park, Matt Squires, Judy

Wells and Chastity Wickens, with backstage support from Glenn Marsden, Andrew

Oxford and Sherry Wilcox. The Players also won adjudicator's honours for

outstanding stage lighting.

I ask all members of this House to join me in extending congratulations to

this group of talented young people and offer them and all participants best

wishes as they prepare to compete in the provincial high school drama festival

next month.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to inform my hon. colleagues that my department is seeking

nominations for the Fifteenth Annual Newfoundland and Labrador Environmental

Awards.

The Newfoundland and Labrador Environmental Awards Program, which is a joint

initiative of my department, the MMSB and the Newfoundland and Labrador Women's

Institutes, is a great opportunity to honour our outstanding leaders in

environment and conservation. The annual awards program acknowledges the

proactive actions being taken by Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to protect our

environment, and also creates an awareness of the importance of our environment

and natural heritage.

Mr. Speaker, we commend all individuals and community groups who dedicate

their time and effort to preserve, protect and enhance our environment. It is

through their dedication that important projects in environment and conservation

are happening in Newfoundland and Labrador to improve our quality of life, thus

making our Province a better place in which to live.

We have many environmental champions in communities all over our Province who

give tirelessly to protect our environment and natural heritage. Mr. Speaker, we

are proud to be able to recognize the hard work and accomplishments of these

leaders through our annual awards program.

All Members of the House of Assembly have received a nomination form and a

brochure regarding this year's environmental awards. I encourage members to

nominate an individual or group from their district for these awards.

Nominations must be received by May 10 and winners will be announced during the

Environment Week, which is May 30 to June 5 of this year.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the hon. minister for a copy of the statement ten or

fifteen minutes ago. It is nice to see the minister get up again. Over the last

number of weeks we have seen minister after minister get up and re-announce

great initiatives of the former Liberal government. Here we have another example

today, it is the fifteenth anniversary of the awards. It is great that you are

recognizing the great work done by the Liberal government.

We have had great people in Newfoundland and Labrador in terms of

environmental work. It comes to mind of one individual, not in my district, but

in Trinity-Bay de Verde, Mr. Allan Williams, who has done great work in terms of

the New Harbour dump. As a matter of fact, the last time I spoke to him he said

that the minister, before he became minister, met with him frequently and now he

does not know the number of the minister. So, I would like for you to call Mr.

Williams and let him know where you are.

Thank you very much.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is a very positive recognition program that recognizes the efforts of

the many hundreds and thousands, if not thousands of individuals, groups and

organizations, who care passionately about the natural environment and who work

hard to try and do something about it. It is a positive to see that on an annual

basis, individual groups, school children, are recognized for their efforts to

preserve and protect and clean up our environment. So we will be, again,

participating by nominating people from our district.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately this is day thirteen of the largest strike in the

Province's history. From all indications, from government and the unions,

there are no talks planned to try to end this strike. Will the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board please update the House as to why

government does not feel it necessary to approach the unions for some real face

to face meetings in an attempt to end this impasse?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We gave a proposal on Friday that counteracted their proposal on Friday. We

have been indicating publicly, in response to their public requests, that we are

prepared and we are open. We have not heard a response back on our proposal to

them. I certainly hope we will hear something back on the proposal to them as

soon as possible because we want to see a settlement to this negotiation in the

best interest of the people of the Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, on day twelve of the biggest strike in the Province's

history, the Premier acted surprised that the union leaders told him they would

not accept concessions such as having sick leave benefits changed. I believe the

quote outside the Legislature, Mr. Speaker, was something like: Oh, if Mr.

Puddester said that than I guess we have a problem.

The question really is, where has the Premier been for the last two weeks?

Didn't he know, like everybody else in the Province, that we had a problem

before the strike started? Will he admit, and when is he going to finally admit,

that his current negotiating style is resulting in a complete lack of

negotiation and communication and now is the time to move past his childlike

antics and get to some real face-to-face negotiations in an attempt to end this

dispute?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, over the last two weeks I can assure the Leader of the

Opposition, and hon members opposite, that we have been attempting to get an

agreement to the best of our ability. We, quite honestly and sincerely, put a

very, very good offer forward on March 31, which we felt was an extremely good

offer at that particular point in time.

With regard to concessions, we took sick leave for current employees off the

table; we took pension indexing off the table; we took severance off the table.

We have done everything we can to try and reach an agreement. The situation

right now is that there is, in fact, an offer on the table which was presented

on Friday past. It is now Tuesday, we have no response. We are doing everything

possible that we can to try and reach an agreement.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On day two of the strike the Premier personally visited the picket lines,

waved a signed newspaper ad, I believe, something like this one, and said: There

are no concessions. We took them all off the table. This is signed by me.

Mr. Speaker, last week in this Legislature, in answer to questions, he

repeatedly stated - and it is in the record of this House - there are no

concessions; they are all gone. The unions are being unreasonable.

Today's headline, Mr. Speaker, blares: Government defends concessions.

Mr. Speaker, no wonder there is some confusion. Who is it that is right?

Which is it? Are there concessions that the government is now defending, or are

they all off the table, like the Premier wanted people to believe ten days ago,

and like he said in this Legislature last week? How does he expect, Mr. Speaker

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the member now to please get to his question.

MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

How, with those kinds of antics, does he expect anyone to trust or believe

anything that he is saying to the union leaders and to the people of the

Province about the concessions that are still on the table?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I will repeat the answer that I said before. With regard to the

concessions that we have taken off the table, it is very clear that we have

taken sick leave for current employees off the table, we have taken pension

indexing off the table, we have taken severance off the table.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: The Leader of the Opposition and hon. members opposite

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Leader of the Opposition has posed a question and the Premier is

attempting to answer it. I do believe we should extent the courtesy to each

other so that we can conduct this dialogue in a reasonable manner, respecting

the integrity of all members.

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, all government members, the Cabinet, everyone present in this

House, realize that we have a very serious fiscal situation in this Province,

that was not created by this government. It was created by your government, Sir.

We are trying to act responsibly. We are trying to reach an agreement that we

can afford.

With regard to the issue on sick leave, if it is considered a concession that

we are seeking, sick leave for future employees, then we are in fact seeking

reduced sick leave for future employees; there is absolutely no doubt about

that. We have to correct the systemic and structural deficit that we have in

this Province. Something has to be done about it. The Royal Commission has said

it is unsustainable. John Efford, the federal Minister of Natural Resources, has

said that we have inherited a financial nightmare from your government. As well,

senior officials of the banks and the bond rating agencies have said the same

thing.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the Premier now to complete his answer.

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We do represent all the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and we have to

act in their best interest.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we finally have an admission from the Premier. Unlike he tried

to suggest at the picket lines, that there are no concessions, they are all

gone, trust me, I just signed this piece of paper, my name is on it, he now

admits there are concessions. Thirteen days into a strike and he tries to define

them.

Mr. Speaker, lets talk about another concession for a minute. Yesterday, the

President of Treasury Board, in his daily update, talked about the pension

concession that government admits it now wants as well, instead of no

concessions as they were talking about two weeks ago. He said this, Mr. Speaker:

Employees should rest assured that government has no intention of changing

employee benefits or contribution rates. The strike continues, Mr. Speaker,

because the unions say: We want that in writing. We would like to have that in

writing. They don't believe a word the government is saying.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the member now to complete his question.

MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

The Premier, himself, says: If we are going to continue, I want everything in

writing. Why will he not put it in writing right now and get that concession off

the table so we can move closer to a negotiated settlement?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. REID: (Inaudible) worth the paper it was written on.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We currently have the right, this government, to reduce benefits, increase

benefits, to reduce premiums, increase premiums. We have that right now, Mr.

Speaker. To change that would certainly be considered a concession on government's

part. I want to add that we don't have any intention, over the course of the

next agreement, to do that. We have no intention. The plan now is showing some

experienced gains, and we hope it will continue. Since 1980 we have experienced

over 10 per cent.

We don't want to give, in fifteen or twenty or thirty years, whoever

happens to be there, the guarantee that you can protect the future recipients of

that plan. We are safe during the next period of time, we have a comfort level

in that, Mr. Speaker, but we cannot guarantee it in the future. Whatever

government is here may mismanage the money of the Province and not do a proper

job. We don't want to do that on behalf of the people who deserve -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the minister now to complete his answer.

MR. SULLIVAN: We don't want to do that, Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the

people who have paid into this plan and deserve to get a pension at the end of

the day. We want to protect that right. I can tell you we have no plans

whatsoever to do anything to change that. It hasn't even occurred to us. The

only plan has come from the people on that side of the House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I think it is pretty clear. We are seeing a double standard.

They want everything in writing from the unions. He will say that but he will

not put it in writing because, just like everything else, we have seen in

Newfoundland and Labrador for the last six months, they probably do have a

different plan after the fact than the one they are talking about right now.

That is why people do not trust them. They is why they do not believe them, and

that is why we are in the mess we are in today in this bargaining.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday it was said by the government that the services that

are provided to the people, they are not suffering in the health care system.

They are being managed. Everything is under control so far. They are checking

every day. Mr. Speaker, let me ask this question: If that is the case, why has

government directed public relations people in the health care corporations to

develop key messages that will be used to try to garner and maintain public

support? Is that the sign of a government that is trying to get a settlement, or

the sign of a government that is trying to -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the member now to complete his question.

MR. GRIMES: - prolong a strike, turn the people against the unions, and

then have an excuse to legislate the concessions that they plan to have? What is

the real answer, Mr. Speaker? What is the real answer?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Again, the Chair reminds all members that, when a question has been asked,

there has to be an opportunity for the minister to reply.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, I never made the statement that services are not suffering in

this Province.

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes, you did.

MR. SULLIVAN: I never made that statement.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SULLIVAN: I have indicated that essential services - the minister has

indicated that essential services are being provided to the people of the

Province.

Mr. Speaker, we take advice from the people in the health system, managers

and the expert medical people who provide advice to them. I do not care in this

House to make a judgement on a medical situation. I think that is best left to

experts. We will take advice from people in the system and so on and we will

follow the best possible advice. I am being told that urgent and emergent cases

are being dealt with. There are, obviously, strains on the system. There always

is, when it is not at full capacity. We understand that and we do sympathize

with anybody out there who cannot get access to routine services and have

cancellations. We certainly understand that the system has to deal with

emergency and urgent cases as a priority in any labour dispute, and hopefully

people will understand. I would like to thank people -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the member now to complete his answer.

MR. SULLIVAN: - for their co-operation today in dealing with the problem

as best we can under a system that is trying, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, yesterday, as well, speaking on behalf of the

Premier, the President of Treasury Board said: We respect the practice of

discussing changes rather than imposing them.

Again the question, Mr. Speaker, is: How does he, the Premier and the

government, how do they expect anyone to believe them when they announced the

wage freeze with no discussion - not even with their own Cabinet and caucus -

after promising to discuss it with the unions, and threatened layoffs in the

public, layoffs or a wage freeze, when he promised not to bargain in public, and

again went directly to the picket line in an attempt to bypass and undermine the

leadership of the unions and to break them when he said he would respect the

collect bargaining process?

Mr. Speaker, when will the Premier realize that he has lost his credibility

and, instead of using cheap words and insincere phrases, why won't he now, he

and his government, restart the negotiations in good faith, call upon the unions

for a face-to-face meeting and get about the business of settling this

completely unnecessary strike that has been caused by the Premier and his

government?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We are dealing with a very difficult financial situation in this Province,

that was slated to get progressively worse when you compound and annualize what

has happened.

We responded to requests to the Premier to explain -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair asks for the co-operation of all members. Again, I know that

Question Period is a very intense time; however, it certainly has to provide for

an opportunity for the minister to be able to answer the questions. I ask

members for their co-operation.

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We responded to a request to explain our position. I have said it before and

the Premier has said, that if we are asked to explain a position that we have

put to the people, we will do that. One of the problems that arose initially is

because different

interpretations got out in the public on March 31 about what

was offered, and we wanted to follow a process where there would be no mistaking

what we have said. We did that, and we put it -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SULLIVAN: We asked to have it in writing, Mr. Speaker. The unions

responded in writing and we responded to them. They came back with another offer

and we responded to them. That is why we want to make sure that there is no

confusion in the public. We will follow that. We would like to see a settlement,

Mr. Speaker -

MR. SPEAKER: I ask the minister now to complete his answer.

MR. SULLIVAN: - and we certainly hope that can occur very quickly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, let me ask one final question of the Premier and

see if he might answer this one.

It is well known that the credibility of this government is absolutely gone,

because the leader has none. He has absolutely destroyed his credibility in six

short months. Let me ask about the Labrador ferry service, Mr. Speaker. How does

the Premier and his government expect anyone to believe him and them when he

promised to implement an independent report based on the lowest cost, because we

have no money - it will not be political, we will not spend money unnecessarily

- and then turn around and yesterday announce the exact opposite of what he

promised the people just three short months ago? What about that question, Mr.

Premier? Would you like to try to be a man, stand up and answer that one, the

commitment that you personally made?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. GRIMES: He will not get out of his seat.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works and

Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, this government announced a decision yesterday

that is favoured to serve the most people in all of Labrador. That is the

decision that was announced.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: That is what members on that side of the House wanted, Mr.

Speaker. That is what the people in most of Labrador wanted. That is what

everybody who is using this service wanted, and that is the decision that was

announced by the government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, it is so obvious -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

With the calls going back and forth across the House, the hon. the Member for

Cartwright-L'anse au Clair cannot be heard. I recognize her now to ask her

question.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is so obvious that this Premier is suffering from a credibility deficit.

In the fall, government commissioned a Public Policy Division of Memorial

University to do a study of marine services in Labrador. Mr. Speaker, in a

teleconference with the people of Labrador back on November 26, the Premier said

to the people, and I quote him today: You have to go in with an open mind on

this and the choices and the decisions have to be left with this group of

consultants who I have complete faith in. I want it done properly and fairly.

Mr. Speaker, the people accepted the word of this Premier yet he did not

accept the recommendations from the consultant but rather devised a system to

meet his own political agenda. Why did you go back on your promise? How do you

expect people to believe anything that you say at any time, Premier?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and

Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, there is enough of political innuendo in that

preamble that if you were to allow me, which I know you will not, I would

consume the rest of Question Period trying to respond to it.

But let me say this, Mr. Speaker, the government asked the public policy

institute of Memorial University to identify options, to analyze those options

and to present them to us. We took that report and we made a decision that we

believe, and that most of the people in Labrador believe, serves the best

interest of the most people who use the service.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse

au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, it is unbelievable that the minister would stand

here today and say that the author of the report had no idea what he was asked

to do, because the authors of this report were quite clear in what they had to

do.

Mr. Speaker, this Premier continues to make commitments that are not worth

the paper they are written on. Once again, this Premier has swallowed himself

whole on this issue. That government professed that they must tighten the bottom

line in spending. They have cancelled hospitals. They have increased ferry

rates. They have laid off thousands of public servants and they are removing

concessions from unionized workers. Yet, he has ignored the recommendations on

Labrador Marine Service in favour of an option that will cost an extra $5

million to $6 million over the next three years.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the member now to complete her question.

MS JONES: I ask the Premier, Mr. Speaker: Tell us, Premier, is it okay to

break open the treasury and to spend the money if it meets your own personal

agenda?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Transportation and Works, and

Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the minister.

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, this reminds me of a Jackal and Hyde situation. One day if we

announce we are not spending money, the Opposition are all over us. If we

announce we are going to invest a little bit of extra money -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and

Aboriginal Affairs. I ask the cooperation of the House so we can hear the

minister.

The hon. the minister.

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

If we announce we are prepared to invest a little bit of extra money to get

the best possible service to the most people in Labrador, then they are all over

us for that, Mr. Speaker. What, in God's name, do they want at all?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse

au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, it is hard to sit here and be patronized by the

minister opposite, I can tell you that.

Maybe the Premier will get up and answer this question. Mr. Speaker, maybe

the Premier can tell me: Is it true that government will pay to operate this

marine service out of Lewisporte on the backs of the people of Labrador, using

money from the Labrador transportation fund to create the most expensive

make-work projects ever in history in the Lewisporte region?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and

Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, not because somebody in the Opposition calls

this the most expensive make-work program in history, not because they say that,

it is true. This is not true, Mr. Speaker. The fact of the matter is, the

numbers show that it will be about an additional $600,000 investment. An

investment into a service that is designed to give the most people in Labrador

access to the service. So, Mr. Speaker, all that innuendo will not wash, it will

not fly, it is not true, it was not true yesterday, it is not true today and it

will not be true tomorrow!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Transportation and Works, and Aboriginal

Affairs.

Minister, during the campaign your blueprint suggested that the people in

Labrador felt alienated by the past government. Well, minister, since your

recent Budget you and your government have driven a deeper and wider wedge into

the hearts of the people in Labrador. The most recent marine service report

suggested shipment costs should be decreased and could be decreased. Your

government chose to increase it by 10 per cent. Minister, why the cash grab by

your government on the backs of the people in Northern Labrador?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and

Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, the government announced in the budgetary

process that there would be a 10 per cent increase in ferry travel within this

Province. That applies to all the Province, Mr. Speaker. That applies to all of

the Province, but let me say to the hon. gentleman, the freight cost of that 10

per cent will add less than one cent to an item in Nain. Now, Mr. Speaker, is

that being unfair to the people? Is that being unfair to anybody in this

Province, when that hon. gentleman asked for that?

As a result of the Sir Robert Bond hauling the freight out of

Lewisporte to Cartwright, we will be able to service the north coast of Labrador

on a seven day cycle, which the Trans Gulf could only do on a fourteen

day cycle last year. We will provide a better service, a more frequent service

to his constituents, which he asked us to do, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. ANDERSEN: Mr. Speaker, the people on the north coast can now put the

fear of the 10 per cent increase aside and I guess go through the fear of a 25

per cent increase.

Minister, your government had commissioned, at the expense of the taxpayers,

a report you and your government completely ignored. Rumor has it, it cost well

over $100,000. It outlined eight options of which all eight recommended that the

freighter, the Trans Gulf , run directly from Lewisporte to the North

Coast of Labrador. This run would not involve goods being unpacked and repacked,

being exposed to the elements and causing unnecessary damage and hardship for

the people on the North Coast of Labrador.

Minister, why did you and your government once again betray the people who

depend upon that service moreso than anyone else in this Province?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works and

Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, offering a frequency of service that is twice as good as it was

last year, in other words a seven-day turnaround out of Cartwright, vis--vis a

fourteen-day turnaround out of Lewisporte, that betrays nobody, I say to the

hon. gentleman, that improves the service to his constituents. It is a better

service than they had last year when this hon. crowd bungled the service that

had been provided previously, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains, on a very short

supplementary.

MR. ANDERSEN: Minister, everything in this report pertaining to the North

Coast of Labrador was completely ignored by you and your government.

How can you and your colleague, the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture and

Minister Responsible for Labrador Affairs, along with your government, deny the

people on the North Coast of Labrador the service they so rightfully deserve?

Minister, how could you and your government, without having the guts and

decency to even set foot on the North Coast of Labrador, understand the impact

your decision is going to have on the people in my riding?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works and

Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, let me remind the hon. gentleman that I am no

stranger to the North Coast of Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: I am been on the North Coast of Labrador many, many times. I

have been there on boat, Mr. Speaker, I have been there in the air, and I know

what the transportation challenges are on the North Coast of Labrador.

I say to the hon. gentleman, that providing a seven-day turn around -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. RIDEOUT: Why wasn't it there? Do you want to tell the House why we

didn't get there in the last few months? Because of sickness in your family,

that is why, and I respect that, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RIDEOUT: I had to cancel a trip and rightly so, but don't go

flipping that kind of flippant nonsense across the House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

The Chair recognizes the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Premier.

Given the fact that both the Premier and the Leader of NAPE are on record as

saying that their offers that are currently outstanding in the strike are not

their final offers, why, Mr. Speaker, with 20,000 people on strike and public

services suffering, doesn't government abandon its amateurish and perhaps

Mickey Mouse approach and tactic of demanding a written response to a proposal

when there is a deal to be had?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, for the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, we were in a process

of face-to-face negotiations. We went through that process in good faith, even

leading up to the time just before the strike.

There was an advertising campaign that was put out, that was actually

misleading. It was inaccurate. The wrong information was being put out. We chose

to ignore that. We went into face-to-face negotiations. We went into the meeting

rooms. Offers were put on the table; oral offers were put on the table. They

were subsequently denied when we went outside of the room. So, in order to

prevent any confusion, any misconception whatsoever, in order to have clarity

and to make sure that the offers were definitive, we asked that they be produced

in writing. I am sure the hon. member can understand why that would be the

request.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Experienced labour negotiators know and have told me, Mr. Speaker, that at

this point in negotiations written offers mean nothing. There has been an offer

to accept mediation through the Department of Labour, to try to resolve this

issue and come to a conclusion. Why is the government pretending that they do

not understand this process and pretending that we can only have ships passing

in the night, package deals, sent back and forth through writing? Why don't

they go and work with the mediators, as has been suggested by NAPE, and try to

solve this strike?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, this is not a process that is strange or new to labour

negotiations. In fact the unions, as the hon. member knows, agreed to this

process. In fact, we responded. They had their offer put forward, I think it was

probably Tuesday, and we responded the following day. They responded again and

we responded again. The ball is now in their court. We cannot respond to our own

offer.

They did agree to that process. They bought into that process. They

participated in that process, and every single time there was an offer and a

counter-offer, there was improvement in the negotiations. Everybody advanced

their position. We are doing this in good faith.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time for Question Period has expired.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair wants to refer to the rules that we practice in this House. We want

to note that while Question Period is one of cut and thrust, it is freewheeling,

we have to be always careful that what we say does not undermine the integrity

of members of the House. I am reminded of the quotation from Marleau, page 525,

which says: Personal attacks and insults are not in order.

I remind members that when we are engaged in the cut and thrust of Question

Period we allow some latitude, but I caution members that we have to be always

careful that what we say does not undermine the integrity of this House or

undermine the integrity of Parliament.

Thank you very much.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The House will recess until order can be restored.

Recess

MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!

Before we were obliged to recess the House, the Chair had recognized the hon.

the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair on a petition. The Chair deems that

her time will start from now.

The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand today to present a petition on behalf of the people of my

constituency, in the District of Cartwright-L'anse au Clair, as it relates to

the Labrador Coastal Marine Service, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday, government made an announcement on a new configuration of marine

services for Labrador. Mr. Speaker, that announcement came after they had hired

a consultant, paid out over $100,000 for a study to give them what would be the

best option of marine service delivery in Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, we were very disappointed yesterday when we found out that this

study, compiled by three very credible individuals at the university, was

completely ignored by that government, completely ignored.

Mr. Speaker, we were also very disappointed and very disillusioned by the

fact that we had taken the commitment of the Premier, we had taken him at his

word; at his word when he told us that we are going to hire this consultant

group, they will do what is fair, and at the end of the day we will implement

what this group comes back to government with.

Mr. Speaker, this group, these individuals, Mr. Ron Sparkes, Mr. Dave Vardy

and Mr. Merv Andrews, three very credible individuals in this Province, three

individuals who have put a great deal of time and energy into looking at what

was the best option for the marine services in Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, I want to read this because it is important that people

understand that these individuals knew exactly what their work was. Their work

was to examine -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the member that when we are speaking on a petition the member should

confine herself to the statement of the parties from which it comes, the number

of signatures, and material allegations it contains. I am not sure that the

member, before we had the recess or now, has read through the prayer of the

petition. I am wondering if we could have the prayer of the petition and then

get to the commentary that supports the prayer.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In the interest of time, I prefer not to read through the prayer of the

petition. There are two WHEREASes in here. It will be tabled for the House of

Assembly. All members can have a look at it. Instead, Mr. Speaker, I would like

to use my time to put forward the arguments in support of this petition.

Mr. Speaker, these particular individuals knew exactly what their job was.

Their job was to examine how the marine fleet can best be deployed to meet the

transportation requirements in Labrador, including the freight transportation

needs of isolated communities and the passenger requirements of people moving to

and from these isolated communities, as well as to and from the Island.

Mr. Speaker, not only did the Public Policy Division of Memorial University

and those three researchers go out and consult with people all over Labrador,

not only did they take the time to re-valuate every single study ever compiled

on marine services, but they went out and engaged a naval architect to look at

the ships themselves and if they could meet those specifications. They also went

out and engaged the services of an economist to look at what was the most

economically feasible option for the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to

look at.

Mr. Speaker, their conclusion arising from all of that analysis pointed to

the operation out of Cartwright being the most cost-effective, in terms of

vessel operating costs, fuel, and shore based cost, along with the Trans Gulf

operating out of Lewisporte to provide freight services to the people of

Northern Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, they did not come by that recommendation lightly. They came by

that recommendation after consulting and gathering a great deal of information

and expertise.

Mr. Speaker, in addition to that, in addition to the fact that the

consultants recommended that the Sir Robert Bond should operate out of

Cartwright to Goose Bay, and that the Trans Gulf should operate out of

Lewisporte points to the North Coast, they also recommended that the Lewisporte

freight service should only be maintained for three years, at which time it

should be phased out and all operations would be based in Cartwright.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member's allotted time has expired.

MS JONES: May I have a couple of minutes to clue up, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, to top it all off, in a teleconference with the

Premier on November 26, he indicated, point blank, to the people in my district

that he would uphold the recommendations of this report. He has broken his

commitment and he has done so only to satisfy a member in his own Cabinet who is

looking after his own constituents and not the better interest of the public and

the public purse. I think that is wrong. It is terribly wrong.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Leave has been withdrawn.

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It gives me great pleasure today to introduce another in a series of

petitions that I have been provided with by the residents of Southwestern

Newfoundland in the area from Rose Blanche to South Branch. This petition,

again, in view of the review that is currently underway by the Department of

Health and this Administration, of the health care facilities and services in

Southwestern and Western Newfoundland, actually, that there may be some

anticipated reduction or integration of services leading to - the greatest fear

in our area - closure of clinics and the downgrade of the Dr. Charles L. LeGrow

Health Centre in Port aux Basques to a clinic status from its current hospital

facility status.

We brought this matter to the attention of the Minister of Health. Again,

there are 700-plus names on this particular petition which has been forwarded

here. In fact, the minister and the Premier were invited recently to a public

meeting to be held in Port aux Basques for that area and did not attend. I

understand the meeting has been postponed, and we trust that they will attend;

because it is no good and you cannot do your duties as a minister in any

department if you do not understand the nature of your department and, more

importantly, if you do not understand the people you are working for. It is fine

to live in an urbanized area where you have bigger facilities that people can

access in short notice on good roads. It is quite a different thing if you have

to utilize facilities that are working at a bare minimum, such as exist in my

district in rural Newfoundland in places like Rose Blanche.

This is of concern, of course, to the Member for Stephenville East, as well,

because in her particular district there are clinics slated right now in the

Codroy Valley area to close if this transition and this integration goes

through.

I bring it to the minister's attention that we understand, we know the

process is underway, that the integration and the realignment of the services in

Southwestern and Western Newfoundland will go ahead, but we just urge the

minister not to let the dollar sign govern the day. Yes, you have to be fiscally

responsible in your capacities as a government, but you also need to have a

social conscience, and I would urge the minister to make sure, in her

deliberations, once she receives the report, to look at it from the perspective

of rural Newfoundland as opposed to urban Newfoundland. We do not have a lot in

any case. We would just like to keep what we have, and that is not too much to

ask.

Please, we would urge the minister, once you get your analysis of the reports

done, once they are submitted, do not let the dollar sign govern the day,

because fiscal responsibility is one thing, and it is admirable, but you must

have a social conscience when you make these decisions. We only have $500,000 of

us here on this rock and we have to try to do the best we can for all of them.

The bare minimal services that we have in some of these rural areas must be and

have to be maintained, because not to maintain them leads to negative effects

that none of us need or want. For example, these people have to move from their

rural settings to urban centres in order to access these services, and that is

not to anybody's benefit -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MR. PARSONS: - particularly if when they are moving they get a U-Haul and

move right out of here all together.

That is what we need.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Lake Melville.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HICKEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It is indeed a great pleasure for me today to bring forth this petition on

behalf of constituents and concerned parents in my district, the great District

of Lake Melville. The petition reads as follows, Mr. Speaker:

To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

Parliament assembled. The petition of the undersigned residents of the District

of Lake Melville.

WHEREAS the Auditor General of Newfoundland and Labrador 1997 report that the

Labrador School Board is paying directors and assistant directors above the

salary scales approved by the Lieutenant- Governor in Council as well as

receiving a remuneration; and

WHEREAS the Schools Act 1997,

Section 92. (1) states that all salaries shall

be paid in accordance with scales approved by the Lieutenant-Governor in Council

and

Section 92.(2) states that a board shall not pay remuneration to directors,

assistant directors in amounts greater than those specified under subsection

(1); and

WHEREAS the Auditor General of Newfoundland and Labrador has stated that the

board is ignoring the policy of government and the law; and

WHEREAS the Schools Act, 1997,

Section 73.(2) states that where satisfied

that the affairs of a board are managed in an irregular, improper and

improvident manner the Lieutenant-Governor in Council may dismiss one or more of

the trustees of the board;

THEREFORE request the minister to reduce the salaries of the Labrador School

Board directors and assistant directors in accordance with approved scales

effective immediately and that the minister reduce or withhold future payment of

salary or money until salary overpaid is recovered,

THEREFORE request immediate dismissal of all Labrador School Board Trustees

and call for an enquiry into the operation and management of the Labrador School

Board District 1,

THEREFORE ensuring that accountability and integrity is restored to our

education system in Labrador.

That is the prayer of the petition, Mr. Speaker, and I am very pleased to be

able to present that on behalf of over 825 citizens and parents of my district.

Mr. Speaker, thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS GOUDIE: Thank your, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to present a petition on behalf of 512 residents of

the community of Hampden and surrounding communities. The prayer of the petition

reads as follows:

WHEREAS the Western Health Care Corporation, in a report submitted to the

provincial government, cites the closing of Hampden Medical Clinic as an option

to be pursued in balancing its operating budget -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS GOUDIE: - and eliminating its existing deficit over a specified

period; and

WHEREAS the closing of Hampden Medical Clinic would mean the end of

physician/medical services to the affected communities....

Mr. Speaker, I met recently, at a meeting in my District of Humber Valley,

with the District Advisory Council for White Bay, and representatives from the

community of Hampden and surrounding communities to discuss health care. We

discussed the health care that they receive in the rural communities today, and

I assured the people that the goal of this government is to improve the health

care in rural communities.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS GOUDIE: As a former front line health care provider, I have seen

first-hand the need to not only plan but implement health care programs to

improve health care in rural Newfoundland and Labrador.

We discussed the need for preventative health care services, such as mental

health services, diabetic education, arthritis and cardiac programs, and home

care services, as I assured them that they would be included in the process

which would see quality sustainable and accessible health care in rural

Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, Motion 1. We move that this House approves in general the

budgetary policy of the government.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

I do understand that you have about six minutes remaining.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: Six minutes? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Member for Humber Valley, who just stood and presented a petition on

behalf of the people of her area, I just want to let the member know - I am not

sure if she realizes it or not - the Health Care Corporation of Western

Newfoundland, when they were asked to present some information to the government

proposing on how to cut down on the deficit that they had, they asked the

Minister of Health for an extended period of time so they could do a proper

analysis. They were denied this delay, Mr. Speaker. They were denied by that

government, by that minister sitting opposite.

If the minister really wants to help the people of her area, she should ask

the minister to treat the people on the West Coast and the health care board

with some respect.

Concerning the Budget, Mr. Speaker, I would say to the Member for Humber

Valley - and I know she is a concerned member for the area - why doesn't she

read the

article that was sent out from the person who ran against her for the

PC Party, Mr. Gary Gale, who is Chairman of the Humber Economic Development

Board?

It was a black day for Newfoundland and Labrador when they brought in the

Budget. That was with the Mayor of Hampden, where she had her meeting - the

Mayor of Hampden, Chairman of the Humber Economic Development Board for the

whole of the Humber Valley area, the Bay of Islands, Corner Brook region - so

she should go back and check with the mayor.

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to spend a few minutes today on education

throughout the Budget. Of course, when you go through the Budget there are

always ins and outs and what is proper and what is not. There is always smoke

and mirrors, especially in this Budget, Mr. Speaker.

I will just give you one example, Mr. Speaker. I just want to give you one

example. The Minister of Education came out and announced in the Budget, in part

of the Budget, that the school on the North Shore, that they will proceed with

the budget on the school on the North Shore, the expansion to the North Shore

Elementary to include the high school students. I should let the hon. minister

know - and I know he is an hon. member, but I should let him know because

obviously he does not spend a lot of time on the West Coast - that tender for

that school has been awarded. The materials have been ordered. The materials are

on site. So, when he comes up and says, we are going to go ahead with that, it

is already ongoing. The materials are already on site, I would say to the

minister, but thank you very much for your concern.

Mr. Speaker, the next thing we have to work on is Herdman Collegiate, because

during the election the Premier and the Minister of Justice, in their brochure,

the number one priority, Herdman, deferred. Deferred, Mr. Speaker, the number

one priority on their brochures during the election. Then again, I say to the

Minister of Justice, what you should do, Minister of Justice, and I will even

help you do it, let's have a rally in Corner Brook. Let's have protestors,

because the last time the Premier spoke to protestors, he told the people in

Gander that the hospital is not deferred. Do not mind the Budget; we will go

ahead with it.

So, let me and you go ahead and have a rally in Corner Brook. Let's have a

protest and we will get Herdman on the go. I will even work with you, I say to

the Minister of Justice. I will even work with you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE: The Minister of Education, in the Budget, is cutting 475

teaching positions, Mr. Speaker. On the West Coast, they always want to know who

said it.

I have something here from the media, Mr. Speaker: Centralization hurts rural

areas. This is in the Western Star, April 3, 2004. Back in January, Education

Minister John Ottenheimer, while on a visit to Western Newfoundland, told

reporters that any integration or amalgamation of the board districts would not

take place in the near future.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. JOYCE: That is what that minister said.

AN HON. MEMBER: When was it, January?

MR. JOYCE: April 3. That is when he (inaudible) out.

Mr. Speaker, I can say to the hon. minister, this was not the same reporter

that you said you did not say that to in Deer Lake. This is a different

reporter.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. JOYCE: This was only two months ago, and already that is on the table

and will be in place by September 1.

There were also plans to consolidate more health boards and integrate the

Health Care Corporation and its services. It is ironic how political parties

speak out against consolidations but when they are in government they work

together, the same thing, under the guise of being fiscally driven. Save money,

but at what cost? The cost seems to always be on the backs and the rural areas

of this Province, Mr. Speaker, the rural areas.

Mr. Speaker, this is the minister who stood in this House last year and said

that one teacher taken out of the school system is one too many - one teacher.

MS THISTLE: Who said that?

MR. JOYCE: The Minister of Education, when he was critic. He said that

here in this House, Mr. Speaker.

In the schools in the Bay of Islands, with 475 teachers being eliminated, in

one school there are going to be two-and-a-half teachers taken out. In another

school there are going to be two positions eliminated, two teachers. In another

school there is going to be a position and a half; they are not sure. In total,

for District 3 in Corner Brook this year, I was told that twenty-nine teaching

positions will be eliminated from District 3. That is with the addition of the

people from the school board who will have to go back into the classroom. That

is what I was informed.

My question to the minister, when he gets a chance to speak, I would just

like for him to justify this and answer me one question. How can he expect to

live up to the Premier's commitment of not having any classrooms in the

elementary school over a twenty-five to one ratio? How does he expect to do that

in the Blue Book?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. JOYCE: How would he expect to do that, to keep up with the Premier in

this Province who said none over twenty-five to one, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MR. JOYCE: By leave?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Again, I ask for members' co-operation.

Leave has been requested. Is leave granted?

AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.

MR. SPEAKER: No leave.

Leave has been denied.

MR. E. BYRNE: A couple of seconds to clue up, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I do understand that leave has now been granted to the hon. Member for Bay of

Islands.

The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.

MR. JOYCE: Thank you to the House Leader.

Mr. Speaker, I just want to thank you for the opportunity to carry on with

the Budget Debate and how it affects the Corner Brook and Bay of Islands area.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is certainly an honour and a privilege to be able to stand here today,

Your Honour, as the Minister of Education and participate in the Budget Debate

of 2004.

Mr. Speaker, as many of the hon. members in this House have done, at this

particular time, although most members obviously have had an opportunity to

speak, but we take this opportunity, I think, first and foremost, to thank the

constituents that we represent. In my own case, I wish to once again thank the

constituents of the provincial District of St. John's East who, a number of

months ago gave, I guess, a vote of confidence to myself to once again represent

them in the House of Assembly as their member. I am sure I speak for all of us

when I say that is something we all share. It is a moment in our lives that we

are all proud of and it is an accomplishment that we can all, in unison, say,

jointly, to the constituents that we represent that is is a privilege, Mr.

Speaker, it is something that we obviously take great pride in, and it is indeed

an honour to represent 8,000, 10,000, 12,000 Newfoundlanders and Labradorians,

represent their interests in this honourable Chamber. Mr. Speaker, it is

something that we cherish, it is something that we share and, I would say, it is

something that makes us all special, the fact that we share that particular

privilege in the representation of those whom we represent.

Mr. Speaker, shortly after that election, I was given, I guess, an additional

honour and that is when the Premier appointed me as the Minister of Education.

At that time, Mr. Speaker, it was two departments, the Department of Education

and the Department of Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education.

As I look at members opposite, it is surprising to see how many members

opposite also shared that particular title. For example, the Member for

Twillingate & Fogo was my predecessor in the Department of Education. The

Member for Grand Bank sat for a series of years, as I understand it, as the

Minister of Education. The Member for Grand Falls-Buchans sat for an number of

years and held the Ministry of Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education. The

Premier was, at one time, the Minister of Education in our Province.

AN HON. MEMBER: The former.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: The former Premier, I should say. In fact, first when I

was elected, if I am not mistaken, in 1996, or shortly thereafter, for a two or

three year period, the former Premier, the now Leader of the Opposition,

occupied the Ministry of Education. If I am not mistaken, Mr. Speaker, at one

time the Member for Bellevue worked, before his days in politics, in the

Department of Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education. So, there is indeed a

wealth of knowledge and experience on the opposite side of this House as it

relates to educational endeavors and as it relates to a variety of educational

positions held within their political lives.

As I look around at my own colleagues on government side, Mr. Speaker, we

have a number of teachers, school administrators, former principals. My

parliamentary secretary, for example, was a former school principal in the

community of Brigus. The Member for Burin-Placentia West, a former program

consultant with the Burin Peninsula School Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: So, Mr. Speaker, this House, in many ways, is blessed

with solid representation from those individuals who, in their past, have had a

very successful history and experience within the educational system of our

Province.

Mr. Speaker, there is one thing that, certainly I have observed in the last

number of months, and it became very evident to me upon assuming the position in

the Department of Education, that there is a very real or there is a statistic

and a reality that we must accept, as Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, and it

is a reality that we must face as Newfoundlanders and Labradorians on a day to

day basis, particularly as it relates to the delivery of educational services in

our Province. I am talking -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, I am talking about a very serious reduction

in the numbers of students that exists in our school system, and how rapidly

that decrease is taking place. Members opposite will certainly be aware of the

fact that we are seeing, almost on a weekly basis, certainly a monthly basis, a

decline in our student enrollment throughout our K to 12 system in Newfoundland

and Labrador.

Let me just give hon. members one statistic, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, let me just give one statistic. In the last

five years we have seen a reduction in just one school board, the Avalon East

School Board, a reduction of 3,350 students -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Again, the Chair is asking for all members' cooperation. The hon. the

Minister of Education is giving an address on the Budget. I will ask that

members permit the minister to give his address without too much by way of

interruption. I ask all members on all sides of the House for their cooperation

in that regard.

The hon. the minister.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

One example of a significant decrease in our school population is an example

that I have used from the Avalon East School District where in the last five

years, Mr. Speaker, we have seen a reduction of 3,350 students. That is in our K

to 12 system. One school district, the Avalon East School District, in the last

five years, a reduction of approximately 10 per cent. An example of what is

taking place in this particular school district, the Avalon East School

District.

Mr. Speaker, that is typical of and representative of what is taking place

throughout all of Newfoundland and Labrador. Let me just give a few other

examples. In the Labrador School District, in 1999, in the academic year of

1999-2000 a total pupil enrolment of 5,300. In the 2003-2004 school year, the

present school year, a total school enrolment of 4,800. A reduction from last

year, Mr. Speaker, a loss of 2.8 per cent. In the Northern Peninsula/Labrador

South School Board, in the academic year of 1999-2000, a total pupil enrolment

of 3,500. This year, the academic year of 2003-2004, a total pupil enrolment of

2,900; for a loss, Mr. Speaker, just in that short five year period, a loss of

some 5.3 per cent in the Northen Peninsula/ Labrador South School Board. Another

west coast board, Mr. Speaker, Corner Brook/Deer Lake/St. Barbe, 1999-2000,

total pupil enrolment of 8,300. This present year, 7,100. Again, a drop of well

in excess of 4 per cent. The Cormack Trail School Board in the Stephenville,

Port aux Basques, south west coast area, Mr. Speaker, Port au Port area as well,

in 1999-2000 a total pupil enrolment of 6,100. This year it has dropped to

5,100. Again, for an almost 5 per cent decrease.

Mr. Speaker, we can go through the numbers. We see in the Baie

Verte/Central/Connaigre School Board a drop of 2.7 per cent in the last four or

five years. In the Lewisporte/Gander School District a drop of well over 4 per

cent in that same time period. The Burin School District numbers - I will just

share these numbers, Mr. Speaker, in the academic year of 1999-2000 total pupil

enrolment 4,600. This year, total pupil enrolment 3,700. The Vista School Board,

which of course takes in the Clarenville, Bonavista South area, parts of Trinity

Bay as well, total population in 1999 of 4,700; this year 3,900. Avalon West,

10,900; this year 9,100. A drop of almost 2,000 students in a five-year period.

As I mentioned, the Avalon East Board, I mentioned those stats a little earlier.

So, Mr. Speaker, the delivery of educational services, in this Province,

within the delivery of educational services in this Province, we all must be

mindful of the context in which we live. Mr. Speaker, it is that sort of

significant and dramatic decrease of the numbers of students in our Province

that we must be mindful of. I will give you another statistic, Mr. Speaker, just

going back a series of years. In the academic year of 1970-1971, in this

Province, we had a total pupil population of 162,000. That was in K to 11,

because in the early 1970s we did not have a Grade 12. Today, of course, and

since the 1980s we have a school system that goes to Grade 12. But in the early

1970s, Mr. Speaker, we had a total pupil enrolment of well over 160,000. Today

we have a pupil enrollment, K to 12, of 80,000 students. A drop of one-half. It

is an alarming statistic, Mr. Speaker. It is one, obviously, of significance and

concern, but it is also a disturbing statistic because it is proof of what is

happening in our Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. It is a result of two

things: a dramatically decreased birth rate and obviously a product of

out-migration. These are the two factors that have resulted in a pupil

population being reduced by approximately 50 per cent in some thirty years.

The challenge therefore, Mr. Speaker, is to provide an education, the

delivery of educational services, to the pupils and the young people of

Newfoundland and Labrador with that reality. The providing of programing to the

students of our Province, regardless of where they may live, whether it is the

largest school in the most urban centre of our Province, or if it is the

smallest or most remote school. It could be in the district, for example, of my

critic. I remember last year in the House of Assembly, when we discussed the

issue of pupil-teacher ratios he would often use an example in his own district

of Change Islands. There is still an obligation in the delivery, Mr. Speaker, of

educational services and programming to ensure that a student in school A, who

may be in an urban centre, is given an opportunity equal to, similar to, and

representative of what a child in the most remote community of our Province may

receive. That is the challenge. That is a challenge, I say, Mr. Speaker. It is

not always necessarily or easily accomplished. That is the challenge.

Mr. Speaker, a couple of weeks ago a decision was made with respect to the

consolidation of school boards that, in some ways, may help address that reality

of a declining student enrolment with a view to the department and the school

boards providing that educational opportunity and providing those educational

services to each and every student of our Province.

Mr. Speaker, the western board is a merger of three existing school boards.

The western board will incorporate the Northern Peninsula/Labrador South School

Board, the Corner Brook/Deer Lake/St. Barbe School Board and also the Cormack

Trail Board. In that particular board, Mr. Speaker, there are some eighty-two

schools and it will have a total or projected pupil population of close to

15,000. The central board will be the merger of the two existing Central

Newfoundland boards, the Baie Verte/Central/Connaigre School Board and also the

Lewisporte/Gander School Board which will service some seventy-five schools in

both central districts. The projected total is almost similar to the numbers in

the board that I referenced earlier, close to some 15,000.

The merger, Mr. Speaker, involving the greatest number of boards will be the

new Eastern School Board of the Province which will, essentially, be the

combination of, and the consolidation of, four existing boards: the Avalon East

School Board, the Avalon West School Board, the Vista School District and also

the Burin School Board. That particular board will service some 127 schools with

a projected enrolment of between 44,000 and 45,000 students.

The Labrador School Board will remain intact, and also the Conseil Scolaire

Francophone Provincial, our French school board, will remain intact. Obviously,

constitutionally that is a reality that we deal with and accept in this

Province, not unlike situations in other provinces of this country.

So, Mr. Speaker, we will have a total of five school boards, reduced from the

original number of eleven. Interestingly, let's keep in mind that it was only

a few years ago, in approximately 1996-1997, that we had in this Province some

twenty-six or twenty-seven school boards. That number was reduced by the

government of the day to the eleven school boards that we now have. So, in one

sense, this is the continuation of a trend in merging and consolidating the

numbers of school boards in our Province.

In any event, we have made a decision as a government, and it is a decision

that members opposite may find somewhat surprising. It is a decision that is

being very well received, I say, publicly. We have had great cooperation with

existing school boards. We have had constant communications between the

department and the school board offices and the school board trustees over the

last number of days. We are in the process, right now, of making decisions with

respect to the transitional boards or the transitional committees that will come

into being in the very near future. The existing school boards, as we now know

them, will cease as a legal entity to exist as of October 31 of this year, Mr.

Speaker. As of September 1 of this year the newly-formed, the newly-merged or

the newly-consolidated school districts will legally take effect on September 1

of this year.

The process, Mr. Speaker, is one of transition, obviously, but it is one that

surprisingly has been received in the community, because those involved in

education appreciate and recognize the fact that where efficiencies can be

realized and where decisions can be made in a more consolidated manner in the

interest of providing an education system to the children and the students of

our Province - which is ultimately what this is all about. This is not about

whether we should have fifty-five boards or five boards. It is not about whether

we should have one director per board or six directors per board. It is not

about having X number of program consultants or X number of assistant directors.

It is about ultimately providing the best possible educational and the delivery

of educational opportunity and the delivery of educational services to the

80,000 students that we have left in the K to 12 system throughout all of

Newfoundland and Labrador. That is what this consolidation is all about. That is

what this merger is all about.

Once these decisions are made and once the final consolidation process is

complete, it is in keeping that all stakeholders, Mr. Speaker - that include

obviously the newly consolidated school districts, the School Boards Association

of Newfoundland and Labrador, the School Council Federation of Newfoundland and

Labrador, the Newfoundland and Labrador Teachers' Association. These groups,

in concert with one another, will strive towards the excellence in education

that the young people in our Province deserve. To a large part, from what I have

had an opportunity to witness going throughout this Province over the last

number of months, are receiving. I say that quite genuinely, Mr. Speaker. I have

had the opportunity over the last number of weeks and months to visit with ten

of our eleven school boards throughout the Province and to visit perhaps some

twenty-five or thirty schools throughout Newfoundland and Labrador. I have seen

firsthand, great things happening in our schools.

The challenge to us, as a government, is to continue that excellence and to

enhance where and when possible the delivery of educational services through

examples of merger and consolidation, for example, to ensure that the young

people of our Province receive the educational programming that they so richly

are entitled to and deserve. That is our mandate as a government, Mr. Speaker.

That is our responsibility as a group of individuals on this side of the House,

and as a relatively new Minister of Education, Mr. Speaker, that is something I

am going to work towards, to ensure that our young people receive what they so

truly deserve as young people in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, my commentary to this point has been largely dedicated to the K

to 12 system. We must not forget what is taking place -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. OTTENHEIMER: It is not an afterthought, I say to the hon. member

opposite. We can only talk about one topic at one time.

Mr. Speaker, equally important -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. minister's time has expired.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Could I just have a moment to conclude?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.

MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you.

We must recognize as well that we have, as a part of our culture and as a

part of our society, excellent post-secondary institutions that garner to the

needs of our young people, obviously our university and obviously a public

college system with some seventeen campuses that deliver the programming to our

young people - programs, colleges and institutions that today represent what our

young people are seeking as part of their post-secondary experience. Hopefully,

as this debate continues, not necessarily the Budget Debate, I will have an

opportunity to perhaps accentuate the very many positive realities that have

taken place, not only in our K to 12 system but in our post-secondary system as

well.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to make a few comments on the Budget today. My only regret is that I

only have twenty minutes and I have an awful lot of things I would like to

cover. I will get right to the point and try and highlight as many of them as I

possibly can.

Mr. Speaker, I have to start today by talking about the Labrador marine

services. This is another example of a commitment that has been made by this

government that has not been upheld, a commitment made directly by the Premier

to the people of my district and has been dismissed casually, without

consideration, due consideration, for what the impacts are going to be on people

in that particular part of the Province.

Mr. Speaker, it is another example of this government running roughshod over

the people of Labrador, which we have seen since the day that they took office

in this Province. These are not just words; these are the feelings of people

throughout Labrador when it comes to this government. People feel that they are

not being heard, they are being misrepresented, and they certainly feel that

their issues have not been given any priority whatsoever, whether it is marine

services or other issues that have been addressed in this House.

Mr. Speaker, the Labrador marine service study was a report, as I said

earlier, that was compiled by a very professional group of people within our

Province at Memorial University, a group of people who took every study ever

compiled by governments, this one and past governments, on marine services in

Labrador, did a full evaluation of every one of those studies. They consulted

with people in all regions of Labrador and then they engaged the views and

perspectives of an economist at the university, along with a naval architect, to

look at what could possibly be the best configuration of service.

They came forward, Mr. Speaker, with a report that was very thorough, very

well researched by some of the best educated people in our Province, to this

government, and government ignored it. To add insult to injury, they ignored it

for another configuration of service that would not only meet the wishes and the

need of the member and the minister for that area, Mr. Speaker, but also was

going to cost the taxpayers of this Province an additional $5 million to $6

million over the next three years.

Mr. Speaker, what is even worse is that this money will come out of the

Labrador Transportation Fund, a fund that is there for the communities in

Labrador to build their infrastructure, to build on their transportation

infrastructure, the same fund that we would use to build roads to communities

like Williams Harbour which desperately needs a road, Mr. Speaker, at a cost of

only $5 million. The amount of money that is being spent to run this ferry, the

passenger ferry into Lewisporte, to satisfy the wishes of the member and the

minister, is being done at a $5 million expense to the taxpayers of this

Province.

What we have is a government that commissions studies, pays top dollar for

them, hires the best people in the Province, and then they shelf it, they don't

follow it, they don't take the advise of their own work that they

commissioned. In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, they break open the Treasury,

they spend the money when it suits them to spend the money.

Today we have a public service strike because of fiscal restraint. We have

thousands of jobs that will be eliminated in the public service. We have ferry

rates increasing in the Province. We have every fee ever collected in this

Province going up. In addition to that, now we have a government that says:

Alright, we have to do all these things to save money, but it is okay to spend

the money to put a passenger ferry in Lewisporte, Mr. Speaker, because the

Minister of Transportation, and the member, promised it to the people in his

district during an election, and we have to make sure that it is done because

this is what he is committed to. Mr. Speaker, when it is acceptable to them and

their own members, they can go out and do just that.

Mr. Speaker, do you know what is even more disturbing about all of this? What

is more disturbing, Mr. Speaker, is back a couple of months ago when the tourism

guide came out in this Province, they announced at that time that Lewisporte

would be the major service and transportation centre which can catch the car

ferry traffic going into Happy Valley-Goose Bay. At that time, Mr. Speaker, they

had officials - not themselves, they didn't go before the cameras - they had

officials in their departments go down to the lobby of Confederation Building

and say: Oh, no, that is an error. It should not have appeared. Then, Mr.

Speaker, on February 28, on the government procurement website, they were

tendering for laundry services for the Sir Robert Bond in Lewisporte. A

week later it was hauled off the site because it was an error, it shouldn't

have shown up there.

Mr. Speaker, they have known for months. Before this report ever landed on

the desk of the minister, the decision was made and it was withheld from the

people. This has been a sham, Mr. Speaker, a complete sham for the people of the

Province. That is all it was, Mr. Speaker. It was a sham to try and cover-up,

that is all it was. We know it today. We know that the information in the

tourism guide today, Mr. Speaker, that officials tried to defend at the time and

say it was wrong, was actually right. We know the ads that ended up on the

procurement site and got pulled a week later were meant to be there. But, Mr.

Speaker they did not have the gall at the time to come out and tell the people

that the decision was made and that they were going to spend another $5 million

in taxpayers' money to be able to honour that request. No, Mr. Speaker, they

drew everybody through a process; a process that had the people in my district

out peddling to this commission, putting forward reports and everything else in

very legitimate fashion, only today to be seen that they have been made a

complete fool of. That is exactly what has happened here.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier got on a teleconference with people up in Cartwright

on November 26. He committed to them, at that time, that he would honour the

recommendations in the consultants report; giving all kinds of accolades to

these consultants saying how credible they were, how fair they would be, and

that he would honour the request. Well did he do that, Mr. Speaker? No, he did

not do that! He did not do that, Mr. Speaker. He has again broken a commitment

to the people of the Province, to people in my district, that he communicated

that message to.

Mr. Speaker, we talked about the Labrador Transportation Initiative Fund. We

talked about the fact that this money is there to be spent on communities in

Labrador.

MR. MANNING: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: I ask the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's if he could

stop shouting at me across the floor.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair again asks for the cooperation of all members. The floor is being

held by the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair.

The Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair, continue your debate.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we talk about the Labrador fund. The Minister for Labrador

Affairs got on Labrador Morning CBC in Happy Valley-Goose Bay on March 31 trying

to defend the Budget. He said: There is only about $70 million left in that

fund. That has to provide for ferry and freight services for people in Labrador.

Well, we know right now it has to provide for job creation initiatives in

Lewisporte around the marine services as well. So that is additional money.

Mr. Speaker, that was right after his member, his colleague, the Minister of

Finance tabled in this House of Assembly the actual amount of money that is left

in the Labrador Transportation Initiative Fund. The Minister of Finance and

President of Treasury Board told the House that this fund's balance of cash

investments and accrued interest was $107,442,312. Mr. Speaker, it was obvious

the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Labrador Affairs, and the Member

for The Straits & White Bay North, did not have the correct information, was

not well researched, did not understand how the fund worked, how it was being

spent. Yet, this is the individual who is sitting at the Cabinet table defending

Labrador. Defending the issues in Labrador and he cannot even read a report that

tells him exactly how much money is there, where it has been spent in the last

year, how much interest accrued on it, and so on and so forth. So, Mr. Speaker,

I submit that to the House, just so we establish what we are dealing with in

Labrador and the kind of representation we have to tolerate.

Now, Mr. Speaker, the other thing the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture,

and Labrador Affairs outlined that day, he said this: You know, as far as you

know, as for the negatives there are some positives in this Budget. We did

manage to continue on with our Forest Access Roads Program that will see a

significant amount of that money spent in Labrador; on the south coast of

Labrador and in Central Labrador. Then in a release the minister went on to say

that government will invest a certain amount of money in the construction of

resource roads, which provide access to hard to harvest forest stands in

Labrador and so on. He also went on to say, we will also maintain funding which

provides access to timber stands to provide fibre for our paper mills and logs

for the sawmilling industry.

Mr. Speaker, that is what we got out of the Budget in Labrador. We got more

forest access roads in order to maintain the timber stands that are going to be

cut and delivered to pulp and paper mills on the Island. I could not believe it,

Mr. Speaker. I was listening to the Minister of Labrador Affairs on the radio

saying this, when a member in his caucus, the Member for Lake Melville in a news

release not too long ago - actually, right before his election, when he was the

Mayor of Happy Valley-Goose Bay - was on the news saying that he was opposed to

the idea of shipping raw wood to Stephenville.

Mr. Speaker, I can go on with a litany of it because there is a whole litany

from the Member for Lake Melville on where he stands on wood out of Labrador.

Yet, he is in a government for six months whose priority initiative for Labrador

- the only initiative, Mr. Speaker, the only initiative for Labrador is to build

forest access roads. Now, can I honestly believe that member has any input in

the government? Can I honestly believe that, Mr. Speaker? He either has no input

in the government or he has done a complete flip-flop and all of this shemozzle

was a shemozzle to lead into an election; so he could win an election, Mr.

Speaker. Because his opinion today is quite different from his opinion that was

there a few months ago.

We would like to know, Mr. Speaker, is the Member for Lake Melville either

bit effective whatsoever, or has he just changed his mind and flip-flopped on

the forestry issue? Just like he did on the Labrador Metis, Mr. Speaker. Just

like he did on the Labrador Metis Nation. Boy, it is unbelievable. It is

unbelievable. The Metis Messenger has a full booklet just on how this

government has treated the Aboriginal people and the Labrador Metis people in

Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, this is a group of people, a Premier, who, in the middle of an

election, went out - words, that is all they are, words - in the middle of the

election, saying the thousands of Metis members who would be voters in the

election in the Upper Lake Melville area, went out and said to them: A

Progressive Conservative government will acknowledge that the decision in the

Powley case applies to the Metis.

That is what he said, Mr. Speaker. He put it in writing. In the middle of an

election, he put it in writing to try and garner support for the Member for Lake

Melville. That was why he did it. Do you know what he did right after the

election? Do you know what he did? I will tell you what he did, because it is

all in the Metis Messenger . It is all in the Metis Messenger .

This is what they said, on February 2: Tom Rideout and John Hickey delivered

Premier Williams' message -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member is carrying on an interesting debate, but I remind the member that

even when you are referring to members who are in the House we always refer to

members, if you are quoting from other papers, by either their district name or

by their position in the House.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I was quoting from a booklet, the Metis Messenger , in

which they actually named the individuals. It was a direct quote, but I will

certainly try and avoid doing that in the future.

Mr. Speaker, let me tell you, in the middle of an election when the leader of

the party was trying to garner the support from the thousands of Metis people in

Labrador, trying to get them to come out and support the Member for Lake

Melville, in a desperate move, a desperate move, he gathered in the four or five

lawyers in his caucus who were running for him in the election and they

interpreted the court decision on the Powley case. Then they wrote a letter to

the Labrador Metis and they said: We will recognize the Metis in the context of

the Powley decision. Yes, we will. We will be your hero. We will carry the torch

for the Metis Nation.

Do you what they did in February, Mr. Speaker? Do you know what they did?

They turned their backs on the Labrador people. They turned their backs on the

Metis people. That is what they did. They betrayed them. They betrayed them. Do

you know something? I am the only Metis member in this House of Assembly, and I

am a proud member of the Labrador Metis Nation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: A very proud member, Mr. Speaker. I served on their Board of

Directors for years before I got into politics, and I am proud of my roots, but

I say to the Member for Lake Melville, he should hang his head in shame. He

should hang his head in shame, Mr. Speaker, shame to know that he went out and

coerced people to vote for him on an empty promise, on a false promise.

Mr. Speaker, I will tell you that this is only one - one - of many

commitments that we have seen this government break to people. It is only one of

many things that people in this Province have been betrayed on by this

government. Not only that; they have misled people. They have misled them in the

wrong direction.

When we talk about a Rural Secretariat, I cannot help but mention the Rural

Secretariat. There was $1.7 million in this Budget for a Rural Secretariat. Do

you know what it is going to do, Mr. Speaker? It is going to fund the Strategic

Social Plan groups across the Province, an initiative that was started by a

Liberal government, and that is their solution to creating employment in rural

Newfoundland and Labrador.

I was appalled, Mr. Speaker, when I heard the minister stand one day and say

that nothing had happened in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. I am going to

educate that minister today. I will tell her what has been happening. We have

some of the most self-reliant regions in this Province, Minister, in rural

Newfoundland and Labrador, and one of them happens to be in my district. Mr.

Speaker, it did not get that way by accident. It got that way because there was

a government who understood rural Newfoundland and Labrador. It was a government

who was willing to put money into rural areas in this Province and not use every

opportunity to rip the guts out of the rural areas, close down hospitals, move

school boards, and give people pink slips and send them on their way.

Let me educate the minister on this: In 1996 there were zones in my district

that were dead last, Mr. Speaker. They were dead last with economic growth. Do

you know something? Four years later they were leading the Province when it came

to growth in rural areas across Newfoundland and Labrador. I did not hear the

minister up talking about that, Mr. Speaker. I did not hear her get up and say

that in one of the most ruralist zones in my district, in four years we grew the

revenue from the local economy from $15 million to $27 million, Minister. I did

not hear you on your feet talking about that. All of these things happen because

you work with rural areas. You work with them, you have a plan. We had a plan of

jobs and growth, we followed it and we saw the benefits from it.

Mr. Speaker, I only have two or three minutes left and I want to touch on a

couple of things within the health care sector, because what the people of the

Province do not know is what was not in the Budget, what is going to happen to

health care in this Province. That is what is not in the Budget, Mr. Speaker.

What we do know is that there is a full-scale plan and a review going on all

across this Province, and we know, Mr. Speaker, from the Budget itself what the

four main priorities are going to be for the health blueprint in this Province.

Those priorities, Mr. Speaker, will only spell the elimination of boards, the

closure of clinics, the downsizing of hospitals, the re-evaluation of staff and

layoffs within the service.

We also know, Mr. Speaker, that we would have had to have seen a tremendous

increase of almost 8 to 10 per cent in the health care budget this year just to

maintain a flatline in health care spending right across the Province, and that

didn't happen. What we had, Mr. Speaker, was an $80 million increase, $50

million of which will go to pay the physicians' salaries increase that was

granted last year and a lot of the other money will go to drug costs.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time has expired.

MS JONES: May I have a couple of minutes just to clue up, please?

MR. SPEAKER: By leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, over $8 million will go to drug costs.

What was very evident in this Budget, Mr. Speaker, is that there was no money

for the Alzheimer's drugs. No, Mr. Speaker! A group that went out there and

lobbied aggressively in this Province to have drugs added to the formula for

their patients.

Now, Mr. Speaker, that government, not unlike the previous government, is

participating in an Atlantic policy review. An atlantic policy review suggested

that Alzheimer's drugs should be funded. The Member for Trinity North knows

all this, Mr. Speaker. He has been following the file. They have recommended

that these drugs be added to the formula. Mr. Speaker, Nova Scotia has added

them, New Brunswick has added them, and Newfoundland and Labrador is still

waiting. It is an unfortunate situation and I want to say to the Member for

Trinity North, I will speak further on this issue at a later date, but I know he

knows the file and he should do the right thing and push government to fund

that.

Mr. Speaker, I know my time has now expired and I will certainly clue up, but

I will be speaking further on the Budget in the days to come. I think we need to

make something really clear, Mr. Speaker, that this is a government that speaks

of one thing but reaps something else. That is what we have seen to date, that

is what the people of the Province will continue to see, Mr. Speaker. What they

have reaped so far is nothing only chaos and disillusionment amongst the people

of this Province right from the health care sector to the school board sector to

the ordinary Newfoundlander and Labradorian out there in our Province.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works and

Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I sat for twenty-five minutes and didn't

utter a word of interruption, not a word.

Mr. Speaker, let me begin by saying this: If ever there was an honourable

crowd that had the face of a robber's horse, it is that crowd over there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, they have had a greater conversion than Paul on

the road to Damascus.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: In six months, Mr. Speaker, every political sin that you

could commit, they committed it. They were given the royal order to boot, and

you would not say anything happened to it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, let me begin by referring to some of the

personal attack that just came my way from the hon. member who took her seat.

Let me remind the House, Mr. Speaker, what position did this hon. member occupy

in the government of the day when she helped craft a decision to discontinue the

ferry service out of Lewisporte and put it exclusively into Cartwright? Was she

a private member?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: No.

MR. RIDEOUT: Was she a backbencher?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: No.

MR. RIDEOUT: No, Mr. Speaker, she was Parliamentary Secretary to then

Minister of Works, Services and Transportation, with special responsibility for

Labrador transportation issues. Now, that is the member who gets up with, like I

said, the face of a robber's horse, contrition written all over the place, and

talks about other people being in a conflict of interest. Well, Mr. Speaker,

conflict of interest can cut both ways. If the hon. member had input into the

decision that was taken, this decision that was taken by this government was

taken by the Cabinet.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Taken by the government of the day.

Mr. Speaker, let me point out another discrepancy in the argument that the

hon. member makes. She talks about the study. Well, the study - whatever we

think of the study or whatever we do not think of the study - we had the

conviction to make the study public.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: I, as minister, or any other minister that is asked will

stand in this House and defend our decision, Mr. Speaker, defend the decision

that the government has taken.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: We did not take the study, like that they took the SGE

study, and hide it away on a shelf in the Department of Works, Services and

Transportation, to find the light of day on November 6, when I went in and asked

for it, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Why did they do that, Mr. Speaker? Because that study

contained the recommendation that hon. crowd did not want to implement.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: That study, Mr. Speaker, contained a recommendation that the

freight and passenger service continue to operate out of Lewisporte until Phase

III of the Trans-Labrador Highway was completed between Cartwright and Happy

Valley-Goose Bay. That was the recommendation of that study. They took a

different decision, which they had a right to do, but they did not release the

study and defend it, did they?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: That is the difference, Mr. Speaker, between the leadership

being provided by this side of the House and the leadership provided by that

side of the House when they were the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: A real difference, I say, Mr. Speaker!

MR. GRIMES: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is a point of order being raised by the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I am listening intently to what the minister is

saying. With the new approach the big difference is this. He acknowledges that a

government, the previous government, exercised its right to make a decision. We

had a report and a study done to help guide us. We made what we felt was the

best decision. The difference, Mr. Speaker, is this: The Premier of the new

approach government said to the people, we will get a study done by an

independent group and whatever the study says we will implement it.

He did not say we would then study the study and do whatever we feel like as

the government. He promised the people that they would implement the

recommendations of the study. They made another commitment to the people that

has been broken. Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Transportation and Works and the

Minister Responsible for Aboriginal Affairs has just confirmed that they did the

exact opposite of what their Premier said they would do. That is the difference.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: To the point of order, the hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. E. BYRNE: That is the forty-second point of order or point of

privilege this member has made in the House and I would bet you dollars to

donuts, Mr. Speaker, that when I am finished you are going to rule there isn't

one. The only point to this is a point of frustration and anxiety because of

what my colleague has pointed out about what they have done.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: The only point, Mr. Speaker, that this member has raised

not only demonstrates anxiety and frustration but demonstrates the point clearly

what my colleague has done. The other point that he is trying to make is trying

to interrupt the excellent presentation that the Member for Lewisporte is

making. That is the only point the Leader of the Opposition is getting on with.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: As members know, points of order have to do with some

procedural irregularity. The Chair will rule that there is no point of order

because there is no procedural irregularity.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works and

Aboriginal Affairs.

MR. RIDEOUT: Laid on the canvas for the forty-second time, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

AN HON. MEMBER: TKO.

MR. RIDEOUT: TKO this time.

Mr. Speaker, as I was saying, the real difference in approach and the real

difference in leadership is that we had the political courage and the political

backbone to release the report. People can question us on the report. That hon.

crowd would not let it see the light of day because they did not want it to fly

in the face of the decision that they made.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, let me just say, I just want to quote from an

e-mail I received today: I was sitting down watching the supper hour news on CBC

this evening and heard the fantastic news about the decision to include

Lewisporte on the Sir Robert Bond schedule. I would like to say: Thank

you! Thank you! Thank you!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: And that is from Labrador, Mr. Speaker!

Now, Mr. Speaker, I want to talk about the representation that was made. This

report that we made public yesterday contained some very interesting

information, if anyone would read it all. In

chapter two of that particular

report the consultants talk about what they heard from people, the stakeholders

- in particular, people in Labrador. What did they hear, Mr. Speaker? They heard

from the Member for Labrador West, for example, who said publicly only a few

days ago in a press release: That no matter what the report recommends, I want

government to do the right thing and include Lewisporte as an option for my

constituents.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: That is what he said, Mr. Speaker, in a press release that

went out on March 24: I want the government to do the right thing for my

constituents. I want the government to give them an option. I want the

government to provide them with a choice.

Mr. Speaker, his constituents told that to the consultants and this

government listened to that advice.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, what about our colleague from Lake Melville?

Our colleague from Lake Melville told us that as he knocked on doors in his

district he had person after person, family after family say to him: We would

like an option. We would like to go into Lewisporte on the Sir Robert Bond .

Well, Mr. Speaker, we listened to his constituents!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: We listened to our colleague. What about the gentleman from

Torngat Mountains, Mr. Speaker? That gentleman almost got politically fried last

year, politically roasted last year because of the decision made by the then

government to try to send the north coast straight out of Cartwright, at a cost

of 300 per cent or 400 per cent higher to his constituents than it would be out

of Lewisporte. That is what they tried to do to him, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: This configuration that we announced yesterday, Mr. Speaker,

allows the Sir Robert Bond to take the freight out of Lewisporte into

Cartwright; not tranship it three and four times as the hon. member said, but

tranship it once onto the Trans Gulf in Cartwright, take it on to the

North Coast of Labrador on a seven day turnaround, Mr. Speaker, a seven day

turnaround that is twice as quick as a fourteen day turnaround out of

Lewisporte. Now, you tell me what is wrong with that?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: That freight, Mr. Speaker, in Lewisporte will be put into

containers, it will be put on pallets if necessary. It will be taken off the

same container and lifted into the Trans Gulf . There is no need to

repackage it or anything. So all of the foolishness and nonsense and rumor-mongering'

that the hon. member was trying to get on with, Mr. Speaker, in the face of what

happened to his constituents last year, is nonsense. It is not going to happen,

and we are hoping to provide a better service for his constituents than last

year.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

AN HON. MEMBER: Is it back up?

MR. RIDEOUT: You should know whether it is back up. Can you spell it?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I want to say a few words about Cartwright and

some of the misinformation that has been espoused by the hon. member who

represents the area, and some of the misinformation that has been espoused by

some of her friends in the area. One person was on the radio - I believe it was

last night - said: This decision took 90 per cent of the business away from

Cartwright. That was the bold statement that was made. This decision took 90 per

cent of the business out of Cartwright in one night.

Mr. Speaker, the decision that we announced in this House yesterday has three

landings a week in Cartwright this summer, which is exactly the same as last

summer. Exactly the same. Not one more or not one less.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, it is more than the

previous summer, when they were the government. Now, does anybody believe that

giving the people in Western Labrador and Central Labrador and providing a

better freight service for the people of Northern Labrador by having one freight

and passenger service a week into Lewisporte is going to take 90 per cent of the

business out of Cartwright? Does anybody believe that, Mr. Speaker? If business

people in Cartwright invested -

AN HON. MEMBER: The Queen Mary .

MR. RIDEOUT: The Queen Mary ? You would want the new Queen Mary

that was built the other day, Mr. Speaker.

It is just not going to happen. It is fearmongering. It is playing to the

fears of people. It has been done by the hon. member and some of the people

around her and, Mr. Speaker, it serves nobody's purpose because Cartwright has

not been downgraded one iota in the announcement that was -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Why can't we all come together, Mr. Speaker, and admit

that everybody is a winner with the option that we announced yesterday?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Labrador West is a winner, Mr. Speaker. Northern Labrador is

a winner. Central Labrador and Happy Valley-Goose Bay is a winner. Lewisporte

gets a pick out of it, Mr. Speaker, one trip in seven. We all are winners!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: It is such a foreign concept to the hon. people opposite,

this winning concept, Mr. Speaker, that they do not know what it means.

Now, Mr. Speaker, the last refuge of scoundrels has tried to fearmonger. Wrap

yourself in the flag. That is the last refuge, Mr. Speaker. The last refuge

coming from the people who do not support this decision on the other side is $4

million or $5 million in cost. Mr. Speaker, it is not on. The number of $4

million or $5 million never appeared anywhere in any of the analyses that were

done for us. It was a figment of that hon. member's imagination. She has been

spooking it, spouting it and saying it in the media for the last two or three

months. I have heard her say it many times. Mr. Speaker, I am sorry to

disappoint her. I am sorry to disappoint the hon. member and some of her friends

and colleagues, that $5 million or $6 million, $3 million to $5 million

sometimes they say, is not on. We have done our numbers. We are comfortable with

our numbers and we believe that we can provide a better service to more people

in Labrador for an additional modest investment of $600,000.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, as one member of this government, I make no

apologies for helping make that decision. I make no apologies for investing an

additional $600,000 in the Labrador service so we can help out my friend's

constituents in Labrador West so they can come to the Island or go back. We make

no apologies for that, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: We make no apology for providing a better freight service to

the Northern Coast of Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: If that decision costs us a few shackles more in tough

economic times, well we will bite it and do it, Mr. Speaker. I make no apology

to my colleague and to his constituents. This government made a very, very good

decision. This government is prepared to stand up in the face of the report, in

the face of the analysis, and defend that decision, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: The previous government had the convictions of a - I will

not say it, but you know what the convictions were, Mr. Speaker. The report that

did not tell them what they wanted, it could not be touted out, it had to be

hid, it had to be put away, because we did not want to go out and defend doing

something else. Mr. Speaker, we are not like that. We make the right decision

for the right reasons and then we will defend it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is my pleasure to rise today and speak on the motion before the House,

that this House approves in general the budgetary policy of the government. That

is the motion before the House, generally known as the Budget Debate or the main

motion.

Mr. Speaker, contrary to the previous speaker, I certainly do not have

confidence in this government's budgetary policy in general. The previous

speaker talked about a lot of winners, and certainly on the particular issue of

providing options for the Labrador service, I think they have done the best they

could in terms of providing options to both travel through Labrador West and

Labrador directly to the Island or by way of Cartwright. In that sense, they

have made the right decision, but, Mr. Speaker, there are many people who have

listened to this Budget and have responded with a sense of depression and

despair and shock and, in fact, the lack of hope that is expressed throughout

this Budget. This very negative Budget for the future of the Province has caused

many people, many businesses, to sit on their wallets, to stop spending money,

to consider other options than staying here.

One example, Mr. Speaker, of people who were shocked and surprised by

government's decision were the people involved in the Alzheimer's Society of

Newfoundland and Labrador. They have called the decision of the government not

to fund drugs to treat Alzheimer's disease as heartless. We are calling this

the broken promise Budget, said the executive director of the society. This

government broke a promise and it broke the hearts of individuals with Alzheimer's

disease across the Province. That is the reaction of people to this Budget. This

isn't a matter where there have been studies showing and demonstrating that,

in fact, not only would the government assist people with Alzheimer's by

providing approval of drugs, approval which was announced in September by the

previous Administration: aricept, exelon, and reminyl. These drugs are already

funded for 85 per cent of the people in the rest of Canada and it is done, Mr.

Speaker, for a very good reason: because it provides relief for Alzheimer's

patients, delays the onset of Alzheimer's, and the worsening of symptoms. Not

only that, it has been suggested that to fund these drugs would actually save

the Province $3 million a year, a figure that does not factor in the savings

that will be achieved by having to admit fewer people to nursing homes. That is

the reaction of one group to one decision in this no-hope Budget. That is a bit

of an indictment, I think, of a government and a ministry that pretends and

states that it is out to be fiscally responsible. Not only are they being

fiscally irresponsible but they are also being heartless, as has been pointed

out by the Alzheimer's Society.

The College of the North Atlantic, for example, Mr. Speaker: They have taken

$2 million away from a budget that has already gone down from $87 million a year

in 1993 to $62 million a year in the year before. They are taking $2 million out

of the main public post-secondary non-university institution. What is that going

to do to young people who are looking for an opportunity to increase their

possibilities for the future?

Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, the government released figures on unemployment. The

thing that jumped out at me, Mr. Speaker, and I know there are hon. members

opposite who must be concerned about this, was that 25 per cent of young people

under twenty-five who are in the labour force - in other words they are not

students, they are not going to school, they are actively seeking work, Mr.

Speaker, because they have very tough rules. These statisticians don't