Third Session, 42nd Parliament

(2022) OFFICIAL REPORT

OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Thursday, October 27, 2022

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 240

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

CONTENTS

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Introduction and First Reading of

Bills

Bill 37 — Energy Statutes Amendment Act,

Hon. B. Ralston

Bill 40 — Passenger Transportation Amendment Act

(No. 2), 2022

Hon. R. Fleming

Statements (Standing Order 25B)

Northern Rockies health services plan

D. Davies

Cultural diversity and participation in cultural

events

R. Singh

ALS awareness and advocacy of Greg Gowe

K. Kirkpatrick

Joanne Foote

B. D’Eith

Agriculture and action on climate change

S. Furstenau

Schools and community

J. Sims

Ministerial Statements

War in Ukraine and Ukrainian refugees

Hon. N. Cullen

T. Stone

S. Furstenau

Oral Questions

Crime in communities and action on community

safety

T. Stone

Hon. M. Rankin

Government action on repeat offenders and crime in

communities

E. Sturko

Hon. M. Rankin

Education funding and impact of inflation on school

district costs

A. Olsen

Hon. S. Robinson

Impact of climate action policies on agriculture

industry

J. Rustad

Hon. L. Popham

Administrative costs and executives in health care

system

L. Doerkson

Hon. A. Dix

K. Kirkpatrick

Government action on issues in health care system

and role of Health Minister

S. Bond

Hon. A. Dix

Orders of the Day

Second Reading of Bills

Bill 36 — Health Professions and Occupations Act

(continued)

T. Halford

D. Clovechok

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 27, 2022

The House met at 10:06 a.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: S. Chant.

Introductions by Members

Hon. A. Kang: I would like to recognize that in the gallery today are the students

of the BCFS. The British Columbia Federation of Students is a provincial

alliance of more than 170,000 students at 15 universities, colleges and

institutes in every part of B.C. Together they work to provide students with

an effective and unified voice to advocate for better education.

I would like to recognize that in the crowd today we have Jenelle

Davies, who’s the organizer for the BCFS; Tashia Kootenayoo,

secretary-treasurer of the BCFS; Melissa Chirino, the chairperson; Phoebe Lo

Patigdas, director and operations; Arielle Reid, researcher.

Michel Turcotte, from Camosun College.

Jennifer Gullins and Benjamin Harris from Okanagan College.

Damon Robison and Jasvir Singh from the College of New

Caledonia.

Michael Gauld and Douglas Treloar from Douglas College.

Ishika Tripathi from Emily Carr.

Paula Zerpa, Cole Reinbold and Sydney Sullivan from Vancouver Island

University.

Carissa Wilson from North Island Students Union.

Gabby Sarnoah and Stefan Nielsen, from Students Union of Vancouver

Community College.

Steven von Cuevas from Northern British Columbia Graduate Students

Society.

Stewart McGillivray and Nolan Nordwall from BCIT.

Ashley McDougall from University of the Fraser Valley.

Quin Cunningham from B. C. Federation of Students, Indigenous students

representative, as well as from Camosun College.

Would the House please make them all feel very welcome.

[10:10 a.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: We have some amazing public servants here in the gallery today from

JERI, from Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation. I’d like to welcome Regan

Macdonald, Theresa Wittstock, Robert Debiki, Chris Morash, Kevin Grout,

Amara Wedel, Mica Munro, Shannon Lee, Jonathan Menold, Alison Macdonell and

Chris Jones.

I’m hoping the House can please make these amazing public

servants welcome today.

Hon. K. Chen: I want to take this opportunity to give my most sincere thanks to a

close friend of mine, my EA, Amelia Hill — Mia, as many call her — who’s

leaving our child care team as she’s got a dream job working for Rowing

Canada, where she can highlight her passion for sports.

While I’m really happy for Mia’s new journey, I know I’m going to miss

her a lot — her passion, her intelligence, her energy, her integrity and her

kindness, as she’s really, really supported me, not just professionally but

also personally, through some of the most challenging times in my

life.

Thank you, Mia, for everything. I wish you all the best, and I also

want to thank all the professional staff like Mia, who do so much for us

MLAs and support the work we do every single day.

A. Olsen: I look up into the gallery and see a constituent of mine in the

gallery today, sitting with our friend, Jason Goertzen. I’d like to ask that

the House welcome Central Saanich lawyer and one-time Central Saanich

council candidate Josh Steeper to the House today.

B. Banman: There is no doubt that those of us who choose public life find being

under the microscope difficult. But by far, I think the toll is stronger on

our families than it is on us, and without our families behind us, I don’t

think many of us would be able to do this.

I would like to take this opportunity to introduce my wife, sitting up

in the gallery, Sharon. It’s her first time here. Would the House please

make her feel very welcome and welcome her to this House.

Hon. K. Conroy: Today in the gallery we are joined by some incredible staff from the

legislative team in the Ministry of Forests. We have Eloise Menzies, John

Kang, Emily Summer, Yimmie Sonuga, Carrie-rae Pedersen, Erin McGinniss,

Wendy Townsend, Ksenia Konwicki, Daniel Pagan and Elissa

Whittington.

I want to thank them all for their creativity, passion and all the

spirit they bring to their jobs every day trying to make life better for

British Columbians.

I’m really indebted to all you do.

Hon. G. Chow: I’d also like to echo the Minister of State for Child Care in saying

goodbye and wishing Amelia Hill, who was my CA back in 2018, all the best as

she takes on a new task and new endeavours.

All the best to you, Amelia.

Hon. L. Beare: I rise today to introduce the UBC Thunderbirds rowing team. This past

weekend, rowing teams from across North America travelled to Boston,

Massachusetts, to compete in the world’s largest rowing regatta, the

prestigious Head of the Charles Regatta. I’m proud to advise the entire

House that our own T-Birds came home with two victories.

Placing first in the women’s lightweight fours categories were team

members Angelina Stevenson, Meghan Camplin, Ehren Paterson, Mary Law and

their cox, Carolyne You.

UBC also placed first in the men’s lightweight fours category:

Christian Place, Nikolas Schramm, Johnathan McLeod, Emerson Crick and their

cox, Clare Cunningham. They came within seconds of the course record,

beating last year’s time by 43 seconds.

Please join me in congratulating the UBC Thunderbirds and their head

coaches, Mike Pearce and Craig Pond, on their incredible success.

Introduction and

First Reading of Bills

BILL 37 — ENERGY STATUTES

AMENDMENT ACT,

Hon. B. Ralston presented a message from Her Honour the

Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Energy Statutes Amendment Act,

[10:15 a.m.]

Hon. B. Ralston: I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time

now.

I am pleased to introduce Bill 37, the Energy Statutes Amendment

Act, 2022. People in British Columbia want to fight climate change and

better protect our environment while also supporting clean energy, jobs

and economic growth.

This bill amends the Oil and Gas Activities Act and the Petroleum

and Natural Gas Act to support the implementation of the CleanBC Roadmap

to 2030 and ensure energy resource development is regulated in a manner

that benefits British Columbians.

The proposed amendments will bring important changes to how the

energy industry is regulated, including how we regulate our growing

hydrogen industry. Hydrogen is a critical source of alternate clean

energy and will move us away from fossil fuels while supporting

good-paying jobs.

This legislation builds on our work to develop a comprehensive

hydrogen strategy and establish a B.C. hydrogen office and supports our

plan to make this province a global hydrogen leader.

Mr. Speaker: Members, the question is the first reading of the bill.

Motion approved.

Hon. B. Ralston: I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second

reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 37, Energy Statutes Amendment Act, 2022, introduced, read a

first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading

at the next sitting of the House after today.

BILL 40 — PASSENGER TRANSPORTATION

AMENDMENT ACT

(N o . 2), 2022

Hon. R. Fleming presented a message from Her Honour the

Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Passenger Transportation Amendment Act

(No. 2), 2022.

Hon. R. Fleming: I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time

now.

I’m pleased to introduce Bill 40, the Passenger Transportation

Amendment Act, 2022. This bill continues our government’s work to

support the modernization of the taxi and ride-hail industries in

British Columbia. To this end, the bill contains a set of amendments to

the Passenger Transportation Act. These changes focus on enhancing

vehicles.

This bill specifically will increase flexibility for the

independent Passenger Transportation Board to exercise its oversight

responsibilities of the industry. It supports the availability of

accessible vehicles and services for passengers with disabilities, and

it clarifies driver requirements in support of passenger safety by more

efficiently and effectively preventing ineligible people from driving

commercial vehicles.

Mr. Speaker: Members, the question is the first reading of the bill.

Motion approved.

Hon. R. Fleming: I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second

reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 40, Passenger Transportation Amendment Act (No. 2), 2022,

introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day

for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Statements

(Standing Order 25B)

NORTHERN ROCKIES

HEALTH SERVICES

PLAN

D. Davies: Today I’d like to talk about some great work that is happening in

the Northern Rockies regional municipality, or commonly known as Fort

Nelson.

The Northern Rockies has been committed to achieving equitable

access to health services for all residents in the region for many years

and is recognized as an exemplary municipality in terms of its ongoing

advocacy, planning and sustainment of health services in the region. The

municipality sees this as a foundation for a healthy, vibrant community,

which has led to the creation of the Northern Rockies regional

municipality community health plan steering committee.

In 2017, the Northern Rockies, the Fort Nelson First Nation,

Northern Health and local care providers committed to working

collaboratively to develop a community health plan with important

consultation from residents, stakeholders and many others. The intention

was to use the ideas of residents and health-related organizations,

along with previous studies, to create an action plan that will lead to

improved health services throughout the region.

The health plan was completed in 2018 with a focus on, but not

limited to, increased efforts to recruit and retain health

professionals, improve health care travel services, improve maternity

care, increase visiting health services and virtual-based health care,

improve local cancer care and improve mental health and substance use

services.

[10:20 a.m.]

The Northern Rockies takes into consideration that in addition to

community-level work, achieving equitable access to health services

requires a focus on regional, provincial and across a network of

agencies that deliver health care services to rural B.C. By working

collaboratively with a variety of partners, the Northern Rockies will

create a network of advocates, each aware of, supportive of and focused

on the unique health care needs of the Northern Rockies

residents.

I look forward to seeing what lies ahead for the region and

sincerely thank all of the members for their commitment to a healthy

community.

CULTURAL DIVERSITY AND

PARTICIPATION IN CULTURAL

EVENTS

R. Singh: I remember rising in this chamber three years ago and speaking

about how I had witnessed the increased enthusiasm around Diwali

celebrations in our province.

These past few weeks I heard friends and acquaintances of

different faiths and walks of life talk about their participation in

Truth and Reconciliation Day and the many ways they celebrated Diwali.

In the same breath, many of them shared their plans for Eid, Christmas

and other holidays.

It is heartwarming to see people feel connected to their

homelands. It made me realize the progress that we have made knitting so

many different cultures into the fabric of our province. It makes me

proud that the sacrifices of those before us have reaped

rewards.

It is a privilege to witness British Columbians coming together to

learn about and partake in these cultural events. It is a testament to

our province and our people, who more than ever make a choice to

understand more about their colleagues and neighbours and to participate

in their celebrations.

I acknowledge that we have much more to do to build an inclusive

British Columbia. I’m excited about our government’s dedication to

anti-racism. The Anti-Racism Data Act gives me so much hope for the

future and the province we want to build, where everyone feels welcome

and has access to government services equitably.

I hope everyone will join me in acknowledging the progress that we

have made in embracing our diversity and all our cultures. Let’s commit

to upholding this progress and strive to make further

advances.

ALS AWARENESS AND

ADVOCACY OF GREG

GOWE

K. Kirkpatrick: Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, which you would know better as ALS,

can affect anyone at any time, and there is currently no cure. The

disease gradually paralyzes the body, and the brain loses the ability to

communicate with the body’s muscles.

Over time, the symptoms get worse and eventually remove the

ability for a person to breathe. ALS is fatal, and 80 percent of people

who are diagnosed die within three years.

I first met my constituent Greg Gowe and his wife, Adrienne

Molinski, in February of 2021. Along with my colleague from Prince

George–Valemount and many others in this room, we learned from Greg

about this terrible disease. Greg was married, with two young children,

an active member of the community and a practising lawyer for almost 20

years when, at only 48, he found out he had the devastating news of

being diagnosed, in May of 2019.

Now, not happy with the lack of supports for people with ALS,

funding for ALS research and absence of clinical trials in B.C., Greg

decided to take up the fight on top of his already personal fight. Greg

joined others to found ALS Action Canada, a patient-led, non-profit

organization with the purposes of securing funding for research to find

a cure for ALS.

It’s positive news that the ALS Society of B.C. has now partnered

with UBC to establish an endowed professorship which recognizes the

importance of accelerating life-changing research for ALS

patients.

Greg passed away this past September, surrounded by his family. He

was 52 years old. There’s so much more to say about Greg. Thousands

around the world read Greg’s final tweet.

I thought it was apt to end in Greg’s own words: “My fight with

ALS has come to an end. Please don’t be sad. Life is beautiful. Live

hard. Love those around you, and come together to #EndALS.”

[10:25 a.m.]

JOANNE FOOTE

B. D’Eith: Recently I attended the celebration of life of a dear friend, an

incredible pillar of the Maple Ridge community, Joanne Foote. Many of

the members in the House will know her because of her tireless advocacy,

not only in Maple Ridge but across the province.

Joanne was a member of the Chippewas of Rama First Nation in Rama,

Ontario, and she grew up in Sudbury, Ontario. She lived and worked for

many years in Maple Ridge and had recently moved back to her home

community in Ontario.

Joanne was an HEU member for 30 years, first getting involved in

her local executive at Holyrood Manor in Maple Ridge. She served several

terms on the provincial executive and was a member of the HEU’s

Indigenous peoples standing committee. In 2016, Joanne was awarded the

HEU Social Justice Award for her activism, and in 2017, she won the

Grace Hartman Award, which is presented to a CUPE activist who embodies

the qualities and legacy of CUPE’s first woman president.

Joanne was also involved with the Fraser River Indigenous Society

and was part of the collaboration of signing the Aboriginal education

enhancement agreement with the Maple Ridge school district.

Whether it was supporting the HEU members, advo­cating for

Indigenous voices, mentoring and teaching others or just giving a

helping hand, she was always first to step up and help. I know she

helped on my campaigns and was never afraid to tell me what I needed to

hear. Sometimes you come back from knocking on doors, and you’re tired,

and she would just smile, and it would make everything

better.

At her celebration of life, attendees were asked to bring and

share a potluck, in true Joanne fashion. In her obituary, in lieu of

donations, people were asked to make donations to the food

bank.

She leaves behind a son, Cody, along with many friends and others

whose lives she touched and changed forever. Joanne said she lived by

the principle “We should always walk beside each other, not ahead and

not behind.”

Let’s all walk beside each other and support one another, just as

Joanne would.

She’ll be dearly missed.

AGRICULTURE AND

ACTION ON CLIMATE

CHANGE

S. Furstenau: Cammy Lockwood is a farmer in Cowichan and a friend, and she has

written this statement, which I will read on her behalf:

“I am a quota-holding farmer on Vancouver Island. I am blessed to

have a husband, three children, a dog, ten puppies, 15 cats, nine pigs,

400 broilers, 6,000 egg-laying hens and tens of thousands of

food-producing plants. I carry the weight of my responsibilities. Each

impacts the others. The health of my farm is directly linked to the

health of my family. When I listen to the weather report, words like

‘unprecedented’ and ‘record-breaking’ are words that I hear weekly, and

they have real-life consequences for me.

“This time last year the atmospheric river managed to completely

sever the Lower Mainland. The area hit hardest by the floods produces 50

percent of B.C.’s food supply. Do you remember the empty grocery store

shelves? I remember the conversations with my farming friends, the ones

who lost their flocks, their barns, their herds, the ones who had to

euthanize their livestock. Those conversations haunt me.

“As I reflect on this year, I ask myself: ‘What has my provincial

government done about climate disasters?’ From my perspective, nothing.

I’m sure your answer will touch on funding packages, grants to apply

for, tax credits for electric car purchases. The truth is I don’t care,

because none of those things addresses the problems. I want a future for

my children.

“I ask you, again, to have the courage to be the leaders in climate

policy, to stop giving my tax money to oil and gas companies and invest

in people, in innovation and alternative energies. Remember the farmers

when you eat and drink and when you make your decisions. We cannot

produce food on a dying earth.”

SCHOOLS AND COMMUNITY

J. Sims: I think everyone in this room acknowledges that schools are the

heart of our community. In our schools, our kids go in the morning and

come home at night, from the age of four or five right up to the age of

18. In our schools, amazing things happen. Of course, they learn how to

read, they learn how to write, they learn some math, they learn some

history, but there are other amazing things they learn.

[10:30 a.m.]

They learn the value of working together, something that they can

teach us. In our schools, they celebrate the diversity. They will

celebrate Eid, they will celebrate Christmas, they will celebrate

Vaisakhi, and they will celebrate Diwali, and they will embrace the

diversity with a great deal of gusto and passion. We all can learn from

that.

There are also other amazing things that happen in our schools.

There are parents who come in and volunteer. There are coaches who come

in after school, teachers who get there early in the morning and stay

late after school finishes in order to coach as well. They do coaching

in the area of theatre, arts, you name it.

But most of all in our schools, our kids model for us how

important it is for us to get along with each other. We all talk about

diversity a lot. But for me, diversity is not when we tolerate each

other. Diversity is when we celebrate each other, celebrate our

differences but also join in each other’s celebrations. Diwali here was

a prime example. Eid is in our communities. I could list all of

them.

I want to do a special shout-out to all the teachers who work with

these amazing humans who are the leaders of the future — the EAs, the

support staff.

Thank you for being the heart of our communities.

Ministerial Statements

WAR IN UKRAINE

AND UKRAINIAN

REFUGEES

Hon. N. Cullen: I rise as we mark eight months since Vladimir Putin created his

unprovoked and illegal war on the people of Ukraine and provide an

update to this House and to the people of our province on our collective

efforts to help those brave people.

Now, 7.7 million Ukrainians have been forced to flee. We supported

the Canadian government’s creation of a special visa. More than 600,000

Ukrainians have applied, 312,318 have been approved entry to Canada,

105,651 have come to Canada, and 8,020 have arrived here in British

Columbia. I’m very specific with those numbers because each one

represents a person, each one represents a story, and each one

represents an opportunity for hope in the face of so much aggression and

despair.

British Columbians have opened up their hearts and their homes and

rightfully expect us as a government and us as a legislature to provide

help in every way that we can. We’ve partnered with the United Way to

provide round-the-clock support. We’ve supported our settlement

agencies, who are already stressed with their efforts, with $15 million,

to increase their capacity from 17,000 people they can help a year to a

little over 33,000 they can help, and provided support to our partners

at the Ukrainian Canadian Congress of B.C., who have been stalwart at

every moment along the way.

Our province provides immediate access to the Medical Services

Plan, 100 percent of eligible prescription costs, and we cover the cost,

as well, of the federally required medical exam. B.C. provides immediate

access for K-to-12 education and domestic tuition rates for anyone

seeking education at college and university, and free employment

services.

As a result, many Ukrainians are successfully settling into their

new lives here in British Columbia. Yet tragically, this terrible war is

not over. For those able to help, please visit our website, Welcoming

Ukraine, to offer whatever you can.

I wanted to share a small story with the House that was sent to me

recently. When the Kozakov family left their home in Ukraine, a

harrowing escape from war just eight months ago, they had no idea that

they would end up in a small town in B.C.’s interior. Viacheslav and his

wife, Okesandra, arrived in the South Cariboo with their two young

daughters, Diana and Anastasia, who is six. A welder by trade,

Viacheslav found a job in 100 Mile House, and the girls have started

school at Horse Lake Elementary.

Okesandra is due to give birth to their third child, a boy, any

day now. Just like the South Cariboo has welcomed the Kozakov family, so

too do I urge British Columbians to follow suit in every way that we

can.

[10:35 a.m.]

British Columbia and Canada have never regretted any efforts we’ve

made to settle people fleeing violence and war, and that is certainly

the case here. We stand in solidarity and support of the brave people of

Ukraine and will continue to offer the support of this government and

this House for as long as this terrible war lasts.

T. Stone: I am pleased to stand today and to speak to this ministerial

statement on behalf of the official opposition.

When I last stood in this House to deliver a ministerial statement

response to the situation in Ukraine, things were, indeed, dire. Russia

had only just begun its illegal invasion of Ukraine. We were all fearing

for friends, for loved ones, for democracy and, indeed, for the

Ukrainian people. War crimes and atrocities were taking

place.

Well, much has changed in the past eight months. We’re all so very

proud to say that the brave and tenacious Ukrainians have pushed back in

a way not seen since David and Goliath. We’re proud to say that so much

of this beautiful country, so many towns and villages at one point

attacked and occupied by Russian forces, are now back securely in

Ukrainian hands, far from today’s front lines.

We’re also proud that British Columbians have stepped up to

provide assistance to so many Ukrainians in so many ways. Individuals

and communities throughout our province have stepped up to volunteer and

to help. This is in communities everywhere in this province of ours,

including in my community of Kamloops, which at least 100 Ukrainian

refugees now call home — like Anna, who fled Kherson, one of the most

hotly contested regions and where fighting continues to this

day.

She left after Russian troops began the relentless and horrific

bombardment of her city. Anna said she initially contemplated staying in

Ukraine with her mother and grandmother. But because of her

four-year-old daughter, she decided to leave after the fighting started

and after Russia began targeting the Chernobyl nuclear plant. Anna and

her daughter drove for three days across the country, fearing for their

lives, passing villages and cities that had been attacked but eventually

making it to safety in Poland, where she could stay temporarily with a

friend.

Anna’s story is like so many, so many Ukrainians driven from their

homes by Russia’s senseless aggression, their territorial ambition,

their efforts to terrorize and murder as many innocent Ukrainian

civilians as possible — bombing hospitals and schools, attacking

playgrounds and train stations, destroying apartment buildings and power

stations. Russia’s attack on Ukraine and its people knows no limits.

It’s brutal, and it’s truly despicable.

But indeed, against that backdrop, there is much goodness. We see

that here in Canada and here in British Columbia. I want to thank the

Kamloops Immigrant Services and our community as a whole for stepping up

and for being so helpful and welcoming to those who had no choice but to

leave their country.

To those who remain in Ukraine: you’re still very much on our

minds. You’re in our thoughts and in our prayers. We continue to stand

with you and condemn, in no uncertain terms, this unprovoked Russian

invasion and the horrific crimes against the Ukrainian people that have

followed day after day.

We continue to push our federal and provincial governments, and

support the efforts of the federal and provincial governments, to do all

that we can, not just to help the people of Ukraine but also to help our

allies in Europe, who are facing a long, cold winter ahead, as an energy

crisis looms without Russian oil and gas.

This is a time when we must stand in solidarity against unchecked

militarism and violations of the peaceful international orders that so

many have fought and died to secure and a time to support all those who

are making great sacrifices by standing resolutely with

Ukraine.

While much has changed since that initial invasion, much has also

stayed the same. So I will conclude today with the same words that I

left with this House just 24 hours after the invasion eight months ago.

There has to be hope. We have to strive towards that hopeful future. Our

collective actions during this crisis will define what that message will

be to younger generations — to our kids, to our grandkids — and to

everyone who lives in Ukraine or any country facing threats to their

sovereignty.

Today we stand proudly with peace-loving people around the world,

with freedom and democracies. Today we all stand with

Ukraine.

[10:40 a.m.]

S. Furstenau: Eight months ago members of this House rose and spoke to the

invasion of Ukraine by Putin’s Russia. As we gathered that day in

February, lines of cars were fleeing Ukraine for the border, families

were sheltering in bomb shelters, villages were suddenly coordinating

local acts of self-defence. The entire world was watching as Russia

invaded a democratic country.

In the months since, we have seen tragedy, the siege of Mariupol,

reports of gender-based violence, fear of the coming winter and failed

crops. We have also seen the awe-inspiring mettle of the Ukrainian

people. Their fortitude in the face of such violence, in the face of

such a powerful enemy, is extraordinary to witness.

Eight months have passed, and the war is ongoing. Millions of

Ukrainians have fled in search of safety, and many of them have come

here to a country with deep familial ties to their own. Ukrainian

families are now staying across our provinces, including in Duncan,

Kelowna, Prince George, Kamloops, Coquitlam. They came in search of

safety and community, and I am proud that British Columbians and this

government are working to provide them with the supports and services

they need.

In February, I spoke to the importance of community, of collective

care. Our community — whether global, provincial or as local as our own

neighbourhoods — is our raison d’être. It is why we are here serving the

public. Community is the source of resiliency and hope.

While what continues to unfold in Ukraine is a great crime and a

tragedy, the communities that have come together in the face of such

adversity give me hope, hope for peace and hope for a future rooted in

democracy, trust and care.

Oral Questions

CRIME IN COMMUNITIES AND

ACTION ON COMMUNITY

SAFETY

T. Stone: Well, as the NDP continues to delay, British Columbians continue

to be randomly attacked and vio­lently assaulted in communities

all across this province.

Yesterday we learned of a horrific, random attack where a man

threw coffee on a mother and her baby in a stroller, in downtown

Victoria, a very short walking distance from this Legislature. But

instead of taking action to keep British Columbians safe, the Attorney

General says: “Random attacks are a fact of life.”

Can the Attorney General imagine looking into the eyes of this

mother…? Against the backdrop of her being assaulted and her baby being

assaulted, can the Attorney General imagine saying to this woman that

what happened to her and her child is just a fact of life?

Hon. M. Rankin: The story, of course, is well known to many in our community. It

is horrific; it is unacceptable. It’s frustrating to all of us that

these attacks still occur in a civilized society. We are taking the

steps needed to address this issue on an urgent basis. We do not know,

however, the facts of this particular incident, but we do know that

steps must be taken and will be taken.

Mr. Speaker: Opposition House Leader, supplemental.

T. Stone: The reality is that that has been the message from this Attorney

General for weeks and weeks. He keeps saying, “We’re going to take

action. We’re going to review. We’re going to consider. We’re going to

have a meeting. We’re going to review again,” and British Columbians

continue to be subjected to these random, violent attacks — four a day

in Vancouver alone. They’re taking place in Prince George, in Kamloops,

in Nanaimo and steps away from this Legislature.

These are terrifying attacks that are leaving British Columbians

not just traumatized but wondering when their government will actually

follow through with real action to keep them safe, attacks like a young

woman hit with a steel pipe, a baby in a stroller attacked with a glass

bottle and, as I mention now, another mother and her baby attacked steps

away from the Legislature.

[10:45 a.m.]

Just this week in Nanaimo, a prolific offender with an extensive

criminal history hit a man in the head with a pipe in a completely

unprovoked and violent attack. Yesterday Victoria’s police chief said:

“The level of violence we’re seeing on our streets is second to

none.”

My question is to the Attorney General again. How many more

British Columbians need to be randomly attacked before this NDP

government will prioritize the right of people to be safe in their

communities over the rights of prolific offenders to

reoffend?

Hon. M. Rankin: There must be consequences for criminal acts. We do not know,

however, in the circumstances of the case to which the member refers,

whether this indeed was an issue of a prolific offender or repeat

offender.

We are going to bring back, as we’ve announced, the prolific

offender program, which the last government cut and which had a 40

percent a year recidivism reduction. We think that will make a

difference.

We also believe that we not only have to be tough on crime, but we

have to be tough on the causes of crime. That requires enormous social

investments, investments this government has made and will continue to

make, investments in wraparound housing for complex care, for which we

are housing 500 people and spending $164 million in the last

budget.

One of the key recommendations of the LePard-Butler report was the

need to extend our peer-assisted care teams — people with, themselves,

involvement in mental health issues or drug abuse in the past who are

there to assist the police in ensuring that our streets are safe. We’re

rolling out those programs across the province. In addition, I’ve talked

of the community transition teams, where people who leave our penal

institutions are given support for not just 30 days but now for 90 days

and not just five of those facilities but every single one in British

Columbia.

These changes require enormous investments. I am not sure if the

people of British Columbia think that if this party across the way were

in government, they would make the kinds of investments we are in light

of their massive cuts to social programs when they were on this side of

the House.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

GOVERNMENT ACTION ON REPEAT

OFFENDERS AND CRIME IN

COMMUNITIES

E. Sturko: I’m very glad the Attorney General brought up the LePard report.

The problem is that this government isn’t enforcing the law, and

criminals know it.

This week the NDP’s handpicked expert, Doug LePard, contradicted

the NDP’s false claim that B.C. is the same as everywhere else. He told

a public panel that unlike every other province, where they’re back to

pre-pandemic levels, there’s been a 40 percent decrease in the number of

people in jail in B.C. because of this government’s policy not to remand

violent prolific offenders.

LePard even said: “When we suggested being more assertive and

seeking detention for offenders who breached their conditions over and

over and over again, I have to say we got push-back on that.”

My question is: when will the NDP scrap the incoming soft-on-crime

Premier’s catch-and-release system and start keeping violent prolific

offenders in jail?

Hon. M. Rankin: There are always differences in trends between jurisdictions, but

I have heard loud and clear from all the provinces that they’re facing

the same issue of repeat offenders.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members, please.

Hon. M. Rankin: I spoke earlier this week with the Ontario public safety minister,

the Hon. Michael Kerzner, and compared notes with him about the issues

he’s facing in the city of Toronto.

[10:50 a.m.]

They have a different charging standard, as the hon. member may be

aware. They are facing, notwithstanding the difference in charging

standard, where the police charge rather than Crown counsel making the

final decision…. They are facing precisely the same issues as we are.

That is why this national challenge has to be addressed, not just by the

provinces in conjunction with the municipalities, as we’re doing, but

also with the federal government.

I’m working hard to work with our federal colleagues in order to

see that they come to the table and make reforms they need to make as

well. I believe the House and the people of British Columbia would

expect an all-hands-on-deck approach involving every level of

government, and that’s exactly what we’re doing.

Mr. Speaker: Member for Surrey South, supplemental.

E. Sturko: I guess we have the Attorney General contradicting their own

expert once again. Time after time this government fails to ensure that

prosecutors use every tool under the law to seek detention of violent

prolific offenders.

Justin Collins, a prolific offender with over 421 police files,

released with the agreement of Crown prosecutors on charges that

included assaulting a police officer. Mohammed Majidpour, a prolific

offender with 30 convictions for assault and assault with a weapon,

released and reoffends just two hours later. And Tyler Newton, a

convicted killer with 51 convictions, released with the agreement of

Crown prosecutors this last weekend.

For over six months, we have called on the NDP to issue a

directive to Crown prosecutors that puts the rights of the community to

feel safe ahead of criminals’ rights to reoffend.

How many more violent prolific offenders will be released onto our

streets before this NDP government takes action?

Hon. M. Rankin: These acts of violence are obviously unacceptable to all of us,

and those who commit them must face consequences. I’ve said that we have

been examining the issue of directives, and we’ll continue to examine

the issue as well.

As I indicated to the House last week, I’ve received legal advice

that the directive….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members, please.

Minister, continue.

Hon. M. Rankin: I have received legal advice that one option that was suggested by

the hon. opposition member for Abbotsford West was not in compliance

with the Criminal Code. It doesn’t mean we’re not looking at the issue,

but we cannot and will not issue a directive that is contrary to the

Criminal Code of Canada or the Charter of Rights.

That is why we’re working to secure, as I’ve said in this House, a

national commitment to take the concrete actions we need to address the

unintended consequences of the bail reform initiative. We’re going to

continue, at the same time, to strengthen enforcement along the lines of

the programs that I’ve discussed earlier, which require massive

investments in social capital, which we are doing.

EDUCATION FUNDING AND IMPACT OF

INFLATION ON SCHOOL

DISTRICT COSTS

A. Olsen: We know, and we’ve heard from all of our constituents, how

inflation is impacting individuals, but it’s also impacting our public

education system. School districts are challenged in addressing unfunded

inflationary pressures.

For many years, the funding rates have been adjusted for the cost

of the collective agreements. That means that all the other inflationary

costs go unfunded. That includes exempt staff, benefit cost escalation

and service and supply inflation. The conservative cost of inflationary

pressure in one school district in my riding is $1.2 million this year.

What does that mean? Well, it means tough decisions for the incoming

school board trustees — potentially less support staff, less resources

for students with high needs, less arts.

In districts where stable or declining enrolment exists, they

simply cannot absorb these inflationary pressures year after year. Every

dollar of unfunded inflationary pressures in the school district is a

dollar not spent on a vulnerable child.

To the Minister of Education, it might be that the ministry just

doesn’t know the increasingly unsustainable difference between the

increased rates of funding and increased costs to school districts. It

could be as simple as the ministry doesn’t know the extent of the gap.

The school districts do, though.

Will the minister commit to undertaking a full review and fund the

gaps that are identified?

[10:55 a.m.]

Hon. S. Robinson: I know that the member is well aware that bargaining has been

undertaken now with all of our public service sector, and that’s,

certainly, part of the conversation — the shared recovery mandate that

we have set in motion. We engage regularly with all of our partners

around how these global inflationary pressures are affecting service

delivery.

I also want to point out, and the member might not be aware, that

this past summer, recognizing some of the significant challenges that

families were experiencing and that put pressure on schools, we

allocated $60 million so that school districts had additional resources

to help families with food programs and to help with expenses like

school supplies.

I know that school districts right around the province were very

relieved to receive these additional funds, recognizing the additional

pressures that families are under and that schools were under as a

result of global inflation.

Mr. Speaker: Third Party House Leader, supplemental.

A. Olsen: My question is not about the collective bargaining process that is

underway. I understand that it’s underway. That’s not what my question

is about. My question is not about a food program in schools. I think

the school districts appreciate that.

My question is about the unfunded inflationary pressures that

school districts across the province — specifically, those school

districts that are not experiencing high growth in their in their

communities — are facing due to the fact that this government continues

to only fund the increases that are agreed through collective bargaining

and not the increases for exempt staff, say, for an example, or for the

benefits, for an example, or for the cost of everything that a school

district needs to supply their schools with so that our children can get

a quality public education.

If you consider inflation, the funding for our public schools

hasn’t gone up at all. The percentage of GDP we put into our public

schools has declined dramatically over decades and is well behind other

provinces. I’ve heard stories of schools overrun with rats and of

children with disabilities told to stay home because there’s just no

support for them. Meanwhile, we’re struggling with a massive teacher

shortage.

The BCTF president has been pretty clear why we can’t retain

teachers — the high cost of living, inflation, the fact that B.C.

teacher salaries are the second lowest in Canada. Teachers can’t afford

to work here. Staffing shortages are so severe that in some districts,

they’re advertising for uncertified teachers.

To the Minister of Education, the minister’s mandate letter

promises quality public education and more investment, but our kids keep

getting shortchanged by this B.C. NDP government. Why isn’t this

government funding public education like it’s a priority?

Hon. S. Robinson: Children are our most precious resource, and that’s why, from 2017

to 2021, we’ve had the fastest rate of investment in K to 12 in this

province’s history. That’s why we haven’t been investing in public

education…. It’s why….

The member says this isn’t about bargaining, and it is about

bargaining. His examples were about bargaining. That is why we have a

shared recovery mandate. It’s also why we have been funding playgrounds,

because we recognize how important they are to the education system and

parents were tired of having to fundraise for playgrounds. That’s why we

are funding development of playgrounds. That’s why we’re fully funding

school busses and energy costs and a new Indigenous student

supplement.

We’re going to continue investing in our children, because that’s

the most precious resource we have.

IMPACT OF CLIMATE ACTION POLICIES

ON AGRICULTURE

INDUSTRY

J. Rustad: It’s a pleasure to have an opportunity to ask a question today,

especially in the light of the shenanigans that the B.C. Liberals

undertook last Thursday to try and prevent me from speaking. I

understand why they’re concerned, as they have refused to speak up to

defend B.C.’s agriculture sector.

Tuesday was Agriculture Day in B.C., and both sides of the

Legislature spoke eloquently about the importance of our ag sector. But

Canada is proposing a 30 percent reduction in nitrogen-based fertilizer

and to reduce emissions from cattle by 30 percent by 2030. This has the

potential to devastate B.C.’s agriculture sector.

To the Minister of Agriculture, can the ministry provide this

Legislature any analysis on the impacts of those policies on the B.C.

agriculture sector?

Hon. L. Popham: Thank you to the member for the great question. We were to sit

down this week to have a meeting, but it was rescheduled. I look forward

to continuing our discussions at lunch next week.

[11:00 a.m.]

To the member’s question, we did have B.C. Ag Days here in the

Legislature this week. I know farmers are dealing with a variety of

challenges, whether it’s global inflation affecting the cost of doing

business or the impacts of climate change. We’re all concerned about

emissions and the impacts that it’s having on our changing climate and

the ways that farmers are being affected. But I can also tell the member

that there has been some miscommunication around the statement that he

made.

I was in the room in Saskatoon at the FPT meeting this summer,

where we discussed this very issue. I can tell you it was very clear to

me, and it’s my understanding that it’s not a 30 percent reduction in

fertilizers. It’s a 30 percent reduction in the emissions from

fertilizers. That changes things quite a lot. Unfortunately, the

narrative continued, and the reason why it’s so unfortunate is it has

put a lot of pressure and a lot of stress on our farmers, so I’m really

happy to have the opportunity to clear that up for them.

I also wanted to add that along with this voluntary policy from

the federal government, it comes with some really interesting

opportunities for us here in British Columbia. We’ve got incredible

agritech companies that are working with farmers to create products and

technology to help farmers be more successful and also to add more tools

to the toolbox when they’re fighting the issues of climate

change.

I look forward to discussing some of those initiatives with the

member later next week.

Mr. Speaker: Member for Nechako Lakes, supple­mental.

J. Rustad: I want to thank the minister for her response.

Well, the paper that the federal government put out is pretty

clear in terms of the deductions, but this policy is not just about

Canada. It has been done in other jurisdictions. The reduction of

nitrogen-based fertilizer in cattle emissions has been implemented in

Sri Lanka, and in the first year, it contributed to a 30 percent

reduction in rice fields and an 18 percent reduction in the primary

export crop, which is key. This has led to food shortages and civil

unrest.

In the Netherlands, the proposal has caused massive protests that

have spread throughout Europe. Their governments predict that the policy

means the elimination of about 20 percent of the farms and a 30 percent

reduction in beef production. This will negatively contribute to the

global food shortages where some 345 million people are facing severe

food insecurity.

To the minister, has B.C. submitted a response to the federal

government, and if so, will she table that response from the Legislature

today?

Hon. L. Popham: Thanks again for the question. No, I have not made a submission to

the federal government, because I was in the room when the discussion

was happening. It was very clear that the reduction was on emissions

from fertilizers and not on the nitrogen fertilizers

themselves.

Again, there was a discussion paper that the federal government

put out. The discussion paper closed off at the end of August. There is

a lot of input that’s coming in from farmers who are very concerned

about this issue, but because I was in the room and I heard what the

federal minister said, I feel confident that we won’t see us going down

that path.

I’d like to say that this brings opportunities for us. Farmers are

looking for opportunities to have more tools in their toolbox to fight

climate change and to be part of the solution. There’s an amazing

Vancouver-based company called Lucent BioSciences. They’re creating a

fertilizer product that uses food waste along with conventional

fertilizers to try and improve soil health as well as reduce emissions.

We’re seeing some really interesting results there.

I look forward to speaking further with the member next week, but

his concerns have been heard.

ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS AND

EXECUTIVES IN HEALTH CARE

SYSTEM

L. Doerkson: While our health care system collapses, a bloated NDP bureaucracy

continues to cash six-figure paycheques. Let’s look at Island Health,

just one of six health authorities that report to this Health

Minister.

[11:05 a.m.]

Thirteen members of an executive team, plus another 51 executive

directors — 51 executive directors. There is even a vice-president of

communications, plus four executive directors of communications,

including the former NDP director of caucus communications.

This former NDP staffer is now the executive director of brand and

digital communications. Why on earth does the health system need

executives for a brand? Well, the truth is the brand isn’t doing so hot

right now. Not when one in five people don’t have a family

doctor.

Can the minister explain why cushy bureaucratic appointments are

more important than helping the one in five people in British Columbia

that don’t have a doctor?

Hon. A. Dix: British Columbia has led Canada in hiring registered nurses since

I became Minister of Health. We were tenth in Canada when I took

over.

With respect to executives, the member refers to the

vice-president of communications of the Vancouver Island Health

Authority. That person is Jamie Braman. It was Jamie Braman when I was

named Minister of Health. It’s Jamie Braman today. Mr. Braman, as

members of the House will know, on the opposition side, was a former

Liberal ministerial assistant, who I think has done excellent work for

us. It demonstrates our approach.

With respect to the comments made by the member and the Opposition

House Leader in the House a couple of days ago, we have reduced the

administrative burden as a share of health system expenditures from the

time when the Liberals were in office. We reduced it. This by the

independent measurement the Canadian Institute for Health Information,

and our own.

When you look at….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. A. Dix: They talked about the vice-presidents and how much were they were

paid. The information they’ve provided, I’m sure inadvertently, was

entirely incorrect — entirely incorrect that they provided.

In fact, we have added six vice-presidents for Indigenous health,

an initiative supported by the opposition, as I understand it, and

supported by the people of B.C. Otherwise, the net number of

vice-presidents is one less than it was in the previous B.C. Liberal

government.

So reduced the administrative burden….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members, let’s…. Members. Members. Members.

Hon. A. Dix: Reduced the administrative burden and kept people in place

regardless of their partisan affiliation when they do a good

job.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Shhh. Members, let’s hear the next question.

K. Kirkpatrick: Well, the minister might want to check the websites of all of the

health authorities where all of their executives are listed, and

compensation. There are org charts, pictures, which may be helpful for

him.

We have 64 VPs in health authorities in British Columbia. Well, in

Alberta, with a very similar population, there are nine. So we have to

look at how we are managing the administrative costs of our health

services budget here.

Now, in Vancouver Coastal, there are 17 senior executives,

including a vice-president who made $463,000 last year. This bloated NDP

bureaucracy has done nothing for patient care. When a woman was left to

die unattended in a closet of a Lions Gate emergency room, this minister

claimed that she received “substantial care.” Apparently this minister’s

definition of substantial care is the family finding their loved one

dead in a closet.

Can the minister tell the nurses at Lions Gate Hospital, and the

families of those who have died in this health care crisis, why he

employs 64 vice-presidents and can’t ensure that there’s access to basic

health care in this province?

Hon. A. Dix: I think the facts are the facts. The Canadian Institute for Health

Information measures administration as a burden on the health care

system. The Canadian average is 4.4 percent. We’re at 3.3 percent, which

is 25 percent lower. But we want to continue to ensure that

administrative savings are there.

[11:10 a.m.]

I want to say that I think our health care teams, including the

presidents of our health authorities, who often receive very significant

criticism but have worked with a dedication that is extraordinary,

deserve a degree of respect in this Legislature.

In the Northern Health Authority, Cathy Ulrich, who’s our

outstanding president and CEO, has reduced administrative expenses as a

share of the budget from 10.1 percent to 8.8 percent — 10.1 percent the

last year of the Liberal government, 8.8 percent this past year during a

pandemic.

What we’re saying is…. We’ve reduced administration. The reason

she’s done that is her focus — and our focus in the North, in the

Interior, in Vancouver Coastal and everywhere — on ensuring we hire

front-line staff to provide services for people. There are significant

challenges in two public health emergencies, but our health authority

CEOs have reduced administration costs as a share of the budget from the

time when the Liberals were in office.

According to the Canadian Institute for Health Information, and

according to the facts, this suggestion that there are hundreds of

people earning over $400,000 a year is inaccurate. The opposition knows

it. How you do it, if you want to do an average, is…. You take the total

amount of compensation, and you divide it by the total number of

vice-presidents. It’s not that hard.

I would say, with great respect, that our health care teams have

done a good job. Can we reduce administration costs further? Yes, we

can, and we’re going to continue to strive to do that. We have done

that, as compared to their record in government.

GOVERNMENT ACTION ON ISSUES

IN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM

AND ROLE OF HEALTH MINISTER

S. Bond: Again, we have an example of NDP math by this minister. It’s

exactly what he’s….

Interjections.

S. Bond: While the members on the other side of the House might think it’s

funny, British Columbians do not think it’s funny that there are 64

vice-presidents. If the minister doesn’t want to check it out…. Go to

the website. You know what? There are names and photographs and

positions, and there are 64 vice-presidents.

This minister has actually, during the time of his watch, spent an

extra $1.3 billion on health administration. The minister can hold up

his hands and complain all he wants.

He wants to talk about measurement? Here’s the measurement that

British Columbians care about. One in five people in this province can’t

get a family doctor. British Columbians are scared to death that they’re

going to sit on a waiting list of a specialist, that they’re going to be

one of the people who face a tsunami of late-stage cancer cases. And

what does this minister do? He gets up and defends the spending,

additional spending, of $1 billion on administration in British

Columbia. British Columbians are tired of that.

Let’s hear what Gerry had to say.

Interjection.

S. Bond: Mr. Speaker?

Mr. Speaker: We’ll get the question.

Continue, please.

S. Bond: Here’s what Gerry had to say to the minister: “I just went through

a personal 19-hour-long ordeal in the ER in New West, seeking urgent

medical attention. It was an awful experience among many others there in

the ER left waiting.” That’s the legacy of this minister and this

government.

Administrative costs. Excuses in this Legislature day after day

after day. We raise cases about people who have lost their lives, people

who can’t get a doctor, people who are terrified about their future

under the health care system that this minister is in charge of. It’s

long past time for change, and frankly, that change starts at the

top.

Will the minister do the right thing, listen to British Columbians

and resign?

Hon. A. Dix: I am proud of the work our health care teams and….

Interjection.

Hon. A. Dix: You know, hon. Speaker, one word of heckle and they stop over

there; and then one sentence of response, and there’s

heckling?

[11:15 a.m.]

I take these issues very seriously. The member doesn’t have to

tell me anything about what goes on in the emergency room

at….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members, please. Members.

Hon. A. Dix: If the member would allow me to speak…. He doesn’t have to tell me

anything about Royal Colum­bian Hospital or its emergency room.

I’ve spent lots of time there, and I’ve spent lots of time there

recently. So I don’t need those lessons.

I understand how hard our teams are working and the struggles

people face. That’s why I and, I think, our whole health care team work

so hard to deliver services, to add services in communities in her own

health authority.

We’ve gone from spending 10.3 percent of every dollar on

administration, on her government’s watch, when she sat there at the

executive council, to 8.8 percent, and that’s because of the work of

people such as Cathy Ulrich. What that means is more health care dollars

providing care to people in primary care and in long-term care and in

surgeries.

We’ve added, in her health authority…. We’ve more than doubled the

number of MRIs per capita in her health authority. We’ve added 17 new

MRI machines. We’ve added, on an annual basis, 120,000 more exams. We’ve

done a record number of surgeries in September, in a pandemic, here in

the hospital. We reduced wait-lists, in a pandemic, for surgeries in

B.C. Our focus is service for patients on the ground.

Ninety percent of care homes didn’t meet standards…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. A. Dix: …under the previous government. We changed that. That’s care for

seniors in long-term care.

The facts are the facts. The facts from the Canadian Institute for

Health Information….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Shhh, Members. Members, it’s almost over. Stay quiet.

Hon. A. Dix: They can try and shout down the facts.

Interjection.

Mr. Speaker: Member.

Hon. A. Dix: They can try and shout down the facts. They keep shouting, yelling

about sort of unsubstantiated statements that aren’t true.

The Opposition House Leader goes on CKNW radio and says there are

64 health authority vice-presidents making more than $400,000 a year.

That’s not true. It’s not true.

The average salary is…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members, please be quiet.

Hon. A. Dix: …dramatically less than that, and that is a matter of public

record.

All I would say is this. CIHI says administration costs are going

down as a share of our budget. The facts say they’re going down as a

share of the budget. The reason why is…. We want, to the maximum extent

possible, every dollar to go into patient care, and that’s what we are

working to do.

[End of question period.]

Orders of the Day

Hon. M. Farnworth: I call continued second reading debate on Bill 36.

[S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.]

Second Reading of Bills

BILL 36 — HEALTH PROFESSIONS AND

OCCUPATIONS ACT

(continued)

Deputy Speaker: Members. Members, please, let’s have some respect for this

chamber. Let’s have some respect for the work that we’re doing here on

behalf of British Columbians.

We have people who would like to speak in this chamber. So if the

member for Prince George–Valemount could please take a moment. Your

colleague next to you wants to speak.

We’re going to get going here, please. We’re on second reading of

Bill 36.

[11:20 a.m.]

T. Halford: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that.

I continue my remarks from yesterday on such an important topic,

one that I think is going to be, obviously, canvassed extensively in

committee.

I was talking, just before, about the importance of the work that

we do in this House. The fact is that the majority of our constituency

work — at least mine in the two years since I’ve been elected — has been

on health care. It’s been important work. I think that we’ve all had

experiences with the health care system. They’ve been personal

experiences, and the minister has referenced that. I know that members

on every side of the House have had personal experiences

recently.

It was just the other day when I got a phone call from my wife — I

can laugh about it now — that my son had taken a soccer ball to the

face. We worried about a broken nose and a possible concussion, but he

survived, he’s okay, and he’s got a game later on today. I will say

this: we are so dependent on our health care system, and we need to

ensure, when we need to access our health care system, that it is there

for us.

One of the things that I’ve spoken with the minister at length

about is maternity issues. I think that on Bill 36 I’ll speak to my

colleagues, and I’m sure there’ll be opportunities to canvass this in

committee. The fact is that we’re looking at the importance of

recruitment. At our hospital, Peace Arch Hospital in White Rock, one of

the big issues was recruitment of a pediatrician. It took months and

months, if not a couple of years, to get that pediatrician.

When the pediatrician on call was having to take vacation or had a

family issue and wasn’t able to fulfil the shift, we were seeing

diversions. We were seeing those diversions to Langley, we were seeing

them to Royal Columbian, and we were seeing them to Surrey. In fact, we

saw the maternity ward shut down a number of times. We saw the maternity

ward shut down three or four times in that year. In fact, it wasn’t

until the eve of the last shutdown over the summer that people in my

community were scared that this was going to be an indefinite

shutdown.

When we’re talking about Bill 36 and the changes to the Health

Professions Act, I will say that one of the things we’re hearing from

health professionals is of stability — stability in the hospitals. If we

are going to recruit a doctor to Peace Arch Hospital, a pediatrician,

they want to know that that maternity ward is going to be able to stay

open. They want to know that that maternity ward is going to be

functioning. They want to make sure that that maternity ward is going to

be able to provide for the mothers and fathers that are using

that.

I will say that when we’re talking about a bill that has, I think,

645 sections — it’s what I checked here, and it’s a pretty weighty bill

— I know that my colleagues will be going into everything at length on

each practice. I’ll say this: as important as this legislation

is….

I want to thank the Minister of Health and I want to thank my

colleague from Kelowna–Lake Country and the Leader of the Third Party

for the work they did on Bill 36. It’s important work, and we all

acknowledge that. I see that the Speaker, I think, has a copy of Bill 36

with him right now. You can almost lift weights with this

bill.

I will say that the challenges in the health care system aren’t

necessarily going to be all fixed by this bill, when we’re looking at

the fact that one in five British Columbians doesn’t have a doctor.

That’s over a million British Columbians without a doctor. I told this

story recently. I’m looking forward to actually meeting with my family

doctor, because quite often we’re going for coffee and he’s able to give

me input on some of the shortcomings he sees in the health care sector.

I know we’ll be talking about this legislation.

[11:25 a.m.]

He recently sent out a note saying: “If you’re under the age of

40, I ask that you find a new family doctor.” That is one of the

challenges that we’re all facing. I will say this: it is so important

that we really do try and strive to make sure that we are supporting our

health care professionals. Again, it’s every health care professional;

it’s not only family doctors. We’re talking about paramedics. We’re

talking about everybody that touches the health care system. I will say

that the impacts are massive.

I think that when we’re talking about…. The fact is that when

we’re looking at, even, paramedics…. I remember — it was about two

months ago — there was a young boy on my street in in South Surrey that

was hit. He was on a motorized scooter. It wasn’t life-threatening. But

he’d obviously had some…. He had broken his fibula. He was on the ground

for quite a while. He laid for 2½ hours on the concrete until an

ambulance came. For 2½ hours, he laid with his mom and the fire

department, who showed up to stabilize him, until an ambulance

came.

I think that those are the challenges that British Columbians are

facing in every single community. I know that this is not something new

to the government or new to the minister — these challenges. But to

watch a mom wait for over two hours for an ambulance to take her child

to hospital for very serious injuries…. It’s obviously physically

traumatic for the child, but it’s also emotionally traumatic for those

involved.

I add that that was a fire department that was there for two hours

— a crew of four firefighters from the city of Surrey and a truck that

was there for two hours waiting for the paramedics to show up. These

were paramedics that were equally as frustrated when they got

there.

When we look, again, at Bill 36 and the impacts that we have…..

You can flip to any

section here. It’s important. Even

section 85: “Duty

to report if suspected significant risk to public.” I think every

section in here is going to be canvassed extensively, but I think we

need to go through each

section and try and understand the impacts that

this is going to have on the health care system.

Again, when you look at the fact that people are going into

emergency rooms in some of my colleague’s ridings, and they’re just

getting hours’ notices that those emergency rooms are closed, that’s

life or death. I know that my colleague sitting next to me…. This is a

public story — it’s similar to the one that I had — about the junior

hockey game.

If you look it, a young man was lying on the ice, and the public

address announcer had to drive, physically, to the hospital to get the

ambulance, to get somebody to come and give this young man assistance.

Again, you think of the traumatic and physical pain that young man is in

but also the emotional pain that teammates, coaches and fans who were

having to witness watching this for an unbearable amount of

time.

We have a duty in this House to make things better and across

party lines. That’s why it gives me hope when we look at Bill 36, and we

see that government, the Health Minister, the Leader of the Third Party

and my colleague from Kelowna–Lake Country can work together on such a

vital, vital piece of legislation.

I’m two years into this job. I don’t know if a bill has ever been

tabled this large before. I imagine, maybe, it has.

An. Hon. Member: It’s a replacement bill.

T. Halford: It’s a replacement bill, so I’m sure it’s hap­pened

before.

If you look at it, clause by clause, it’s…. For some of us here,

new to this job, it can be quite, quite overwhelming. Also overwhelming

can be the messages that we get from our constituents, day in and day

out, on the health care issues that we face.

[11:30 a.m.]

I know that, Mr. Chair, even in your own riding, you must be

getting those issues from your constituents every single day. I actually

know. I’ve got family members that live in your riding, and they’ve also

emailed you on health care items, on the challenges that they’ve faced

at St. Paul’s Hospital, specifically on mental health issues and

access.

One of the issues that we talked about…. This is also in your

riding, so I hope you’ll allow me to tell this story. A young man was

wanting to get into detox, and he phoned his sponsor, and he was not

able to get into detox, and his sponsor suggested to him that he go to

Lions Gate Bridge and threaten suicide. He was taken in, and then he was

put on a psych hold, and he was able to enter treatment from there

because he was in the system.

That’s an alarming story, but it’s a story we’ve heard. That was

somebody in your riding. I’m not sure if they reached out to Mr.

Speaker’s constituency office on that, but I can imagine, especially in

a riding such as the Chair’s, the amount of correspondence that that

office must get on health care issues, mental health. They possibly get

correspondence on Bill 36 as well — right? — and some of the changes in

there.

I think that it’s important that we…. We have a duty to our

constituents to ensure that with every legislation, especially health

legislation as important as this, that’s put forward to this House, we

go through with a lens on how we make the system better. The system, as

the Premier has stated previously, is teetering, is in crisis. Will this

legislation solve all those problems? Absolutely not. It

won’t.

When you look at issues…. I told a story about when I was younger

and a lot of the doctors in White Rock and South Surrey were from South

Africa. We talk about trying to streamline credentials. The doctors were

trained in South Africa, but at a time, we had one clinic in White Rock

that had over five South African doctors in it. It was a thriving

clinic. Now, that clinic has, in the last couple of years — as of,

actually, last year — fully shut down, and it does not exist anymore.

I’m not sure that those doctors are still practising family

medicine.

That’s one of the challenges that we have, Mr. Speaker. Again, I

know that you are hearing these concerns in your own riding. Maybe

you’ll speak to this bill and share some of the concerns that you’re

hearing.

Deputy Speaker: It’s sort of hard to speak to the bill when I’m in the chair,

Member, but please proceed.

T. Halford: Maybe, but often there’s somebody else in the chair

too.

Anyway, it’s important. The fact is that every chance that we

get…. Like I said yesterday, I’m also fortunate enough to have Semiahmoo

First Nations in my riding. That is a relationship that I have honestly

grown to love in the two years that I’ve held this job. We’ve talked

about the challenges in health care that it’s facing. I’ve talked to my

colleague that sits next to me on the challenges that Indigenous people

are facing within the health care system.

I know the Minister for Municipal Affairs spoke about this

yesterday, and I know that my colleague spoke about this too, in the

previous days that he spoke — the importance of consultation, the

importance of inclusion, the importance of ensuring that we are hearing

from First Nations leadership on such an important bill.

I think it’s essential that no matter where we are in this

province and no matter what political spectrum we’re on, we’ve got to

ensure that that consultation happens. Again, when we have a health care

system that is…. It’s failing, and we know that, and when we look at the

guiding principles within this bill, this bill significantly expands on

the previous duties of colleges and applies these principles under the

act.

[11:35 a.m.]

Principles include acting in accordance with UNDRIP. The steering

committee previously supported the declaration on the rights of

Indigenous peoples and the requirement to align with UNDRIP. That’s

vitally important. That’s important work.

The bill further sets objectives for anti-discrimination measures

in conducting regulatory processes and providing health

services.

There’s some really important work that has gone into this bill. I

do want to take the time and thank the legislative staff that have

probably spent hours, if not weekends and months, on this document. I

can’t imagine the amount of work that went into it.

I will say this. I know I have full faith in my colleagues that

they will be extensively canvassing this piece of legislation in

committee. They will be doing it with a lens of: how are we empowering a

health care system that, as the Premier said, is teetering, is in

crisis? We need to ensure that we are doing everything in our power to

try and strengthen that at this time.

With that, I will take my seat.

Deputy Speaker: Member for Columbia River–Revel­stoke.

D. Clovechok: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Great to see you. You and I have

not had the opportunity, for a while now, to work together. So I’m

looking forward to it.

I just want to say…. I stand here today, in a very proud way,

representing the people of Columbia River–Revelstoke who have entrusted

me with their voice here. Health care, in my riding, is one of the, if

not the, top issues. No question, rural health care. The minister knows

that I have been a very loud advocate for rural health care and a pain

in one of his appendages more than he’d care to admit.

Interjection.

D. Clovechok: Yeah. Thank you, sir.

I just want to say, too…. It gives me an opportunity here today to

recognize and thank the people of Columbia River–Revel­stoke who

made so many sacrifices during COVID, personal sacrifices. They

shuttered their businesses. They did things not out of fear but out of

community necessity to protect one another. I’m just so, so proud of

them.

I remember when the minister and Dr. Bonnie Henry stood up and…. I

remember it was in the early stages, when they called for masks. We sent

and thousands of masks started to arrive from dentists, from resorts and

from all over the place to doctors’ offices. We didn’t know what we were

fighting yet, but we knew we were in a fight. That just goes to show the

kind of people that I represent. I’m just so, so very proud of

them.

I also want to take this time just to briefly thank the doctors,

the nurses, the NPs, the HCAs, the administrators, the caretakers, the

firefighters, the ambulance drivers, the police officers, all those

public servants who put themselves in harm’s way to make sure that we

were all safe during that pandemic, especially during the first part of

it.

I’m very pleased to have the opportunity to stand here today and

speak to this bill, one that I think, I really believe, will

significantly impact our health care system at a very critical moment in

our health care system. I think there’s nobody in this House that would

disagree with that.

We are in the middle of a deadly health care crisis times two with

the opioid crisis. We’ve got a double-barrelled shotgun looking at us.

Something needs to change drastically and dramatically. I think that

this legislation is the beginning of that. It’s a beginning of a change

that is so necessary for our province, so necessary for our country.

This isn’t just a B.C. problem. It’s a problem of Canada. It’s a problem

of Saskatchewan and Alberta and other jurisdictions as well.

[11:40 a.m.]

I think this legislation before us today…. It doesn’t seek to

solve the health care crisis. There’s no silver bullet here. In fact, I

think it’s been in the works for quite some time. I know it’s been in

the works for quite some time, and I’ll reference that in just a couple

of minutes.

It’s mainly to do with regulations for health care professionals.

It’s an administrative bill. You say to yourself, back at home, for

anybody who is watching: what does an administrative bill really have to

do with me not having a doctor or me getting in for a procedure? Well,

it all fits together. I think you’ll see — I hope you’ll see, through

the committee stage — the intent of this bill to address some of these

issues through the different colleges, and so on and so

forth.

I’m optimistic that it will show that it does have an impact on

the system and, most importantly, for me anyway, impact on patients, the

outcome of patients. This is why we have a health care system. This is

why we hire health care professionals. It’s to make sure there are

positive outcomes for them, if at all possible, and speedy access to

those services that create those outcomes and also for the health and

well-being of our health care professionals,

We know in any job, whether you’re a doctor or a nurse or you’re

an MLA or whatever you are, positive mental health, positive physical

health in your employees directly correlates with positive outcomes for

patients.

I’m very hopeful that this bill, when we drill down into it during

committee, will show some of those processes. As my colleagues have

always already mentioned, 645 sections to this bill. It’s almost like

War and Peace , which is an apt kind of name for

it.

Interjection.

D. Clovechok: It’s not that good. But anyway, I make reference…. It was a long

read, both of them.

But we must be extremely careful, I think, to make changes —

broad, sweeping changes — to ensure that we do not exacerbate existing

problems. We know that there are problems. We’ve got to take this very,

very seriously when we go through the committee stage and look,

section

by section, at how that is going to affect what is already

existent.

When you’re teetering on a precipice, you don’t want an unforeseen

consequence giving you a little shove so you go over the abyss. I think

it’s really important that when we’re going through committee on this,

we really look deep into how it relates to what already exists today

and, of course, what’s exists tomorrow.

I would be remiss, I think, if I didn’t mention the people who

were involved in this. There are a couple of things I do want to

highlight. This started back, as you know, in 2018, co-chaired by the

MLA for Kelowna–Lake Country and the minister himself and the Leader of

the Third Party. When it comes to health care, I think collaboration is

the key to success.

What I was really, really excited to hear, when I started asking

questions and looking at this bill, was that it wasn’t only

collaboration between the three parties. There was outside input, two

sessions of outside input, that included people in general life. It

included doctors. It included nurses.

I’m a staunch believer, when you come to medical changes, that

those patients and health care professionals have to be consulted there.

They’re the front-line troops, and they’re fighting the enemies. That

enemy is multiple diseases. They have to be talked about, so I was very

pleased to see that.

I think another point that needs to be made, too, is that the work

actually started prior to the pandemics — the opioid crisis continues to

get worse and got worse during the COVID epidemic — before our system

was showing explicit outward signs of crisis. I kind of equate it to a

plumber, when you know that your pipes are wet and you don’t know where

that leak is. That plumber comes in and puts that pressure pipe on it,

and everything starts to blow.

COVID did that. But I think it was a good thing, because I really

believe that, as I say, with crisis comes opportunity. It gave us the

opportunity to drill down and look at our system and see what could be

changed, what can be fixed, because no system is perfect. I think if

there’s anything good that comes out of that, it’s that this bill is

part of that.

[11:45 a.m.]

The purpose of the committee was to make a series of

recommendations to modernize the health profession and the regulatory

framework and how professionals are regulated and how that is dealt

with. What I’d like to read into the record is some of those principles.

They’re guiding principles of this bill, and I’ll read through them

quickly.

The bill significantly expands on the previous duties of the

college and applies these principles to all under the act — colleges,

offices of the superintendent, director of discipline, etc. The next

ones are important. I’m going to talk a little bit more directly about

them. These principles include acting in accordance with the united

declarations of rights of Indigenous peoples, UNDRIP, and the steering

committee previously supported the declaration of rights of Indigenous

peoples, DRIPA and the requirements to align with UNDRIP.

Other principles included procedural fairness, respect for

privacy, promotion of holistic healthcare, identifying and removing

barriers for external jurisdictional practitioners — I’ll talk about

that as well — and the latter speaks to those who are internationally

trained and educated. The bill further sets objectives to

anti-discrimination measures in conducting regulatory processes and

providing health care services.

I think we have to remember at all times…. We live in British

Columbia. Obviously, we know that. But this is a Canadian health care

system. This is a system of Canada that is lauded by so many other

countries in the world. We are so fortunate to have this system that we

have here in Canada, yet it’s a system that is fraught with problems.

That doesn’t necessarily only have to mean it’s only British Columbia,

because it’s not. But especially when it comes to Indigenous…. We know

that racism has created inequities in service to certain groups of

people, and it doesn’t necessarily just have to be Indigenous. It

certainly applies to other people.

I think those principles are solid principles. I’m really excited

to see how those principles are outlined and relayed in the act itself

and how they’re referred to through the different sections and how — and

I’ll be speaking about this a whole bunch more too — the KPIs, key

performance indicators, measurement outcomes, are going to be looked at

when it comes to this.

I’m excited to see those principles. They make sense. I think we

have to be extremely careful, as I said, when we go through this bill to

ensure that we do not have those problems, as I mentioned. Again, I want

to thank the co-authors of this. It took an enormous amount of work to

get there.

One of the discussion consultations and significant

recommendations that was made by the committee was to include cultural

safety and humility. I want to talk a little bit about that for a

minute, because, for my constituents, that’s incredibly

important.

I quote here from the cultural safety and humility standard:

“Cultural safety is an outcome based on respectful engagement that

recognizes and strives to address power imbalances” — that’s key there —

“inherent in the health care system. It results in an environment free

of racism and discrimination, where people feel safe when receiving

health care.” That’s important. That is a really important part of that

framework.

And: “Cultural humility is a process of self-reflection to

understand personal and systemic biases and to develop and maintain

respectful processes and relationships based on mutual trust. Cultural

humility involves humbly acknowledging oneself as a learner when it

comes to understanding another’s experience.”

I reflect back to my time in my home in Alberta when I was in a

hospital, not myself physically ill but with First Nations relatives of

mine, at the passing of someone. The standard there was that the room

was would be filled with people. Thank goodness to the people at the

Foothills Hospital at this one occasion. There were about 30 people in

that room, and there was smudging, and there was singing, and that was

so important to the person that was in the process of

passing.

[11:50 a.m.]

That needs to be recognized. Those cultural things needs to be

recognized by the medical system. They may not seem scientific, but they

are, and they are spiritually connected. I’d like to really see what

that looks like.

Richard Jock, the CFO of the First Nations Health Authority,

stated that “the cultural safety and humility standard is a

quality-based approach to make B.C.’s health and social services

institutions safer for all Indigenous people.” I’m really excited and

looking forward to seeing how that’s going to happen.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

What are the KPIs? What are the measurement tools? How do we know

that this is happening? If they’re not happening from a systemic system

thinking perspective, how are we forecasting what we’re going to do if

they don’t measure that? I think that’s important.

The recommendations also talked about improving the governance of

regulatory college boards, establishing an independent discipline

process — I think that’s a really good idea — while revising the

complaints process, with the aim to make it more transparent and focused

on patient safety. Boy, I tell you. In my riding, I hear a lot of that.

How do I complain about the service that I got in that hospital, or how

do I deal with this? I think that’s a really positive step forward, but

again, we’ll have to wait and see what the act and the sections in that

act deal with that. How will the bill address that?

Again, I refer to it because I was a business guy once. What do

those key performance indicators look like? What are those measurement

metrics? How are you measuring all of this through this act and through

the sections within that act? I think one of the things I like about

this bill….

It’s written and includes many changes to protect the public. The

protection of the public, for me — this is what it’s all about. I know

the minister agrees with that. It’s about people. This is about people

and their health and their wellbeing and their loved ones, because when

somebody is sick, they need to be taken care of. We need to streamline

the process in order to do that. Again, I go back to measurement

metrics. How do we measure this? How do we know that this has actually

happened so that we can tell people this is what has happened? That’s

something I’m looking forward to hearing about.

I think we also agree that these are very important matters to

consider. We also have to recognize that our health system looks very

different today than it did when the recommendations were first made. In

2018, some brilliant minds got together and, with the help of

consultation, devised a very thorough plan. But the world has changed.

The world has changed significantly, and we have learned so much because

of that. That’s one of those opportunities, especially in medicine. You

learn so much by these crises, so what we have to make sure is that that

bill actually reflects what is happening today, the current realities

that are happening today.

I think every discussion that I’ve heard so far about this…. As

legislators, over the next few weeks and days, and then secondly, later

in committee, we must really be focused on what the act calls the

broader context. To me, that broader context, in light of what the

Premier said, is a crumbling system. We’ve got to keep those in mind. I

know the minister has heard me ad nauseam about this with my riding,

which is the size of Switzerland, from Revelstoke to Kimberley. We have

a population of about 38,000 people.

I’m going to use the Columbia Valley as a specific example, as it

relates to a broader context inside of this bill, and that’s transborder

health care. Our population in the Columbia Valley is almost 10,000

people. Our population has grown about 25 percent since the last census.

Our population and the infrastructure is built around that, as it should

be. We have the Invermere Hospital, with a fantastic staff, fantastic

doctors and nurses and care aides and public nurses and everything that

goes along with that, but it’s eight beds. t’s not big, but it’s

effective.

[11:55 a.m.]

Yet we have an influx every year into our riding in the Columbia

Valley. The same in Revelstoke, same in Golden, same in Kimberley: an

influx of about 30,000 to 40,000 people a year between May and October.

Those 30,000 to 40,000 people — some come for just a holiday for a week

or two. Others have permanent homes there that they live in.

They draw down on our infrastructure. They draw down on our health

care services. It becomes very difficult for the RCMP to police. It

becomes very difficult for our doctors and nurses. Our emergency room is

packed during ski season, as an example, with broken legs and all the

injuries that come. We don’t have the medical resources that are

necessary for that season.

There used to be a shoulder season. One thing COVID taught us

about the Columbia Valley was that we’ve got more people moving into the

Columbia Valley now and into Columbia River–Revelstoke from the Lower

Mainland because people started to learn that they could work from home.

They’re working…. They’re coming for lifestyle. What a beautiful place I

live in — probably the best in B.C. Sorry, Minister.

Nonetheless, our population is not only growing but with that,

what I call the shadow population. Those pressures put on our doctors

and nurses and our infrastructure, the RCMP, the first responders — and

the list goes on and on — isn’t accounted for. We’ve got to find ways to

account for those levels of increasing population because most of them

are from Alberta. Most of them are from Saskatchewan. Actually, most

from Alberta though. But we don’t turn them away at our

hospitals.

Mr. Speaker: Noting the hour, Member.

D. Clovechok: Noting the hour already? I was just getting on a roll. I’m just

getting started.

Anyways, noting the hour, I’d ask to reserve my right to speak

again and ask for adjournment of debate.

D. Clovechok moved adjournment of debate.

Motion approved.

Hon. A. Dix: I look forward to seeing everyone shortly, at one o’clock.

With that, I move the House do now adjourn.

Hon. A. Dix moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1 p.m. this

afternoon.

The House adjourned at 11:57 a.m.

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