Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 1 March 20, 2024 CONTENTS Mr. G. Arseneault Hon. G. Savoie HEALTH CARE Ms. Holt Hon. Mr. Fitch Ms. Holt Hon. Mr. Fitch Ms. Holt Hon. Mr. Higgs Ms. Holt Hon. Mr. Fitch Ms. Holt Hon. Mr. Fitch Ms. Holt Hon. Mr. Fitch Mr. McKee Hon. Mr. Fitch Mr. McKee Hon. Mr. Fitch Mr. McKee Hon. Mr. Higgs

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 2 NURSING HOMES Mr. Gauvin Hon. Ms. Bockus Mr. Gauvin Hon. Ms. Green Mr. Coon Hon. Mr. Higgs Mr. Coon Hon. Mr. Fitch Mr. Coon Hon. Mr. Higgs POWER RATES Ms. Holt Hon. Mr. Holland PROPERTY TAX Ms. Holt Hon. G. Savoie

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 3 [Original] Mr. G. Arseneault (Campbellton-Dalhousie, L): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As tradition, we would call it, after a lapse of time following adjournment, we usually ask for a 15-minute extension to question period. For today, I would ask that unanimous consent be granted to do that again, as per tradition. Thank you. Mr. Speaker (Hon. Bill Oliver): Do we have consent? Hon. G. Savoie (Saint John East, Minister of Local Government; Minister responsible for La Francophonie, PC): No, Mr. Speaker.

At the end of the day, this is the extension of an already sitting session. So, there is no tradition in that regard. Also, we are under a calendar, Mr. Speaker, so the members know very well when we’re coming back. Thank you. Mr. Speaker (Hon. Bill Oliver): Thank you. HEALTH CARE Ms. Holt (Bathurst East—Nepisiguit—Saint-Isidore, Leader of the Official Opposition, L): Mr. Speaker, no matter where I go in the province, the issue New Brunswickers are most worried about is health care. Last week, I heard about it from Ivan, whom I met door knocking with David Alston in Saint John East.

Last night, on our Facebook Live Q & A, we heard it from Janice and from Karen, who has been waiting for two years for a heart echo. [Translation] That is why it made me feel sick to see this status quo budget yesterday, when our health care system urgently needs bold transformation with leadership at the highest level. [Original] Health care dollars need to be allocated with care. That is why the travel nurse contract with Canadian Health Labs (CHL) has New Brunswickers so upset. How did we get gouged like this? Mr.

Premier, given your ultimate responsibility for the system and your focus on dollars and cents, can you please tell us when you first learned about the CHL contract? Hon. Mr. Fitch (Riverview, Minister of Health, PC): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It is a real privilege for me to stand and take the first question of this session here in the Legislature. We do understand that the use of travel nurses in the New Brunswick health care system is not ideal. Certainly, we would rather have nurses who are there on a permanent basis.

This was a temporary tool that was used in order to make sure that emergency rooms stayed open and that some of the testing and some of the clinics stayed open.

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 4 Mr. Speaker, we know that it is not a forever solution for the health care system here in New Brunswick. But I can tell you this, Mr. Speaker—the $3.8 billion that is in our health care budget is the biggest that this province has ever seen. I want to congratulate the minister. Mr. Speaker, this is an increase of $214 million over last year’s budget. That is an increase of 6%. That is the commitment that we are making to ensure that people have health care in this system. Mr. Speaker (Hon.

Bill Oliver): Thank you, minister. Ms. Holt (Bathurst East—Nepisiguit—Saint-Isidore, Leader of the Official Opposition, L): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The contract with CHL was more than twice that of other travel agencies. It included things that we were paying for that didn’t end up in the hands of the people. It was an irresponsible contract to sign. It is clear that due diligence wasn’t undertaken.

I would like to know the Premier’s involvement, his awareness of that contract, what he did after he found out that it existed, and what the government is doing to make sure that we don’t waste New Brunswickers’ tax dollars in this fashion again. Hon. Mr. Fitch (Riverview, Minister of Health, PC): Mr. Speaker, I wanted to take this week and be very diplomatic and very factual, but when the member across the way says the money was wasted on travel nurses, I want to ask the people who showed up in the ERs who were treated by a travel nurse. Was that a waste of time? Was that a waste of money?

The member across the way is saying it’s a waste of money to have travel nurses. Mr. Speaker, there are no solutions over there, just rhetoric. When it comes to the question of whether or not to have travel nurses, would the member across the way want to have a travel nurse or no nurse? Mr. Speaker, we’re doing very well on recruitment. We have a solution on the pathway forward. Since 2018, there’s been a net increase—a net increase—of 1 110 LPNs and RNs within the RHAs. In the past year— Mr. Speaker (Hon. Bill Oliver): Time, minister. Ms.

Holt (Bathurst East—Nepisiguit—Saint-Isidore, Leader of the Official Opposition, L): Mr. Speaker, I find it appalling that the Minister of Health doesn’t recognize that, when you’re giving money to a company that says it will transfer that money to food for nurses but then does not—does not—provide the accommodation or transportation expenses, it’s a waste of taxpayer dollars under this government’s watch. I want to know what actions the Premier and this government are going to take against CHL. How will they prevent a predatory contract like this from being signed again? Hon. Mr.

Higgs (Quispamsis, Premier, Minister responsible for Intergovernmental Affairs, PC): Mr. Speaker, we all know the member opposite and her colleagues, and the history is

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 5 that there’s been no accountability for dollars spent in any way, shape, or form. That’s been a tradition with Liberal governments. This is what we know. We’ve asked the Auditor General to look into this in order to understand all the nuances. We were dealing with a time of crisis when we had a shortage of staff to provide adequate health care to the citizens of this province. We had our teams and health authorities react to meet that need.

We’ve made it our number one priority to make sure our citizens are safe and healthy and have services in health care. So, Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General will look at this and do a study. We’ll get a report, and we’ll understand all this. However, I’m encouraged that the Leader of the Opposition is actually even interested at all in how money is spent. Because, Mr. Speaker, we’ve just now presented our sixth balanced budget, something the Liberals have never been able to do. We’re putting record amounts of money into every category.

We have an economy that’s reacting like it hasn’t in generations, and I know that it feels good on this side and that it hurts on— Mr. Speaker (Hon. Bill Oliver): Time. Ms. Holt (Bathurst East—Nepisiguit—Saint-Isidore, Leader of the Official Opposition, L): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I find it interesting that the minister is saying they did nothing wrong and the Premier is saying we need the Auditor General to look into it. There’s a discrepancy there. I’d like to talk now about the more than 80 000 New Brunswickers who find themselves without a doctor, a nurse practitioner, or a primary health care home.

To fix the health care system, we have to start with the stabilization and transformation of family medicine and primary care. Our team knows that you need to listen to and involve the people who’ll make the changes on the ground. You need to involve them in the planning and development process. Anytime you’re making big changes, you must have strong relationships. Partnership is key, and leadership is needed at the top. [Translation] To make these changes, the people who will be implementing them on the ground need to be listened to and involved in the process.

To do that, you have to have built strong relationships. Partnership is key and requires collaborative leadership. [Original] Can the Premier tell us why nurse practitioners, nurses, and doctors were not involved in the development of the secret primary care action plan?

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 6 Hon. Mr. Fitch (Riverview, Minister of Health, PC): Well, Mr. Speaker, once again, on the first day of questions, I’m holding the opposition members accountable for their words. I was the one who wrote the letter to the Auditor General asking them to look into the contract. So when the member opposite says that I was saying they did nothing wrong, once again, her words are revealing that she’s not being forthwith on the facts when it comes to this situation.

That’s why the Auditor General is going to look into the contract and how it all came about. What I was going to say the other day is that, when it comes to partnerships, working together, and the people on the wait list—the member across the way asked for the wait list—is that we’re working with the success occurring here in the province. Our population has grown. Again, it depends on what time frame you take, but, according to my learned colleague, there were about 64 000 people in the past number of years. Those people have to find housing, have to find medical care, and have to find schools, so the— Mr.

Speaker (Hon. Bill Oliver): Time. Ms. Holt (Bathurst East—Nepisiguit—Saint-Isidore, Leader of the Official Opposition, L): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The question is specific to primary care, the first point of access for people when they are feeling unwell. New Brunswickers don’t have that access today—not when they need it, not in their communities. It is critical that we transform our primary care system. We have heard that from all the experts in the system, and everyone in this House has agreed that collaborative care is the way forward.

So I would like to know why we are not involving the partners who deliver that service in the development of the plan. Can the Premier tell us when he last met with New Brunswick Medical Society President Dr. Paula Keating, with the nurse practitioners’ association and Chantal Ricard, and with the head of the Nurses’ Union, Paula Doucet? These relationships are key, and we need government to have a close connection with those leaders. Hon. Mr. Fitch (Riverview, Minister of Health, PC): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I think that we are arguing to agree on the fact that, yes, we are moving toward collaborative care in a number of different ways. With respect to Vitalité, its collaborative care clinics are actually giving a significant amount of access to care in a very, very quick and effective manner. We have money in the budget for Horizon Health to modernize its primary care collaborative practices. And the member opposite forgets to talk about Health Link, which, again, is one of the modern tools that we are using here in the province to alleviate the fact that there were so many people without a family doctor.

We have 54 000 people registered with access here in the province, and they are each tied to a clinic, a clinic that has electronic medical records, a clinic that has modern administration and modern scheduling so that, if a person’s particular clinic is full, they can go to another. We are just— Mr. Speaker (Hon. Bill Oliver): Thank you.

Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick Oral Questions Original by Hansard Office Translation by Debates Translation 7 Ms. Holt (Bathurst East—