Volume 1 PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND THIRTY-sEVENTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND 1st. Session VERBATIM REPORT TUESDAY, MARCH 16, 1976 SPEAKER; THE HONOURABLE GERALD RYAN OTTENHEIMER Number 30

March 16, 1976 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER: (DR. COLLINS): Tape 1136 Order, please! STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PK - 1 RON. F. D. MOORES: Mr. Speaker, on Friday past at ten minutes past two in the morni~g the engine room of the fisheries patrol vessel Cape Freels exploded causing twenty-three men to be cast adrift in the open Atlantic in an open lifeboat and two rubber life rafts.

What could have very well resulted in one of the worst marine disasters in our country's history was averted fifteen hours later at about 6:00 P.M. when the men were pulled safely aboard the coast guard cutter H~dson • What happened in between those two events and the details surrounding the incident and the rescue are now well known to most Newfoundlanders through media coverage. We watched, listened, and read of the agony of relatives waiting for word from their loved ones. We heard of the horrible uncertainty of the wet and cold men in the small boats as darkness approached.

We read of the great relief of all after their rescue. I hope:all members of the crew and the Cape Freels and their friends and relatives will know that the hearts of all Newfoundlanders went out to them during their trial and that the relief was in fact our relief as well. Captain Deer who was the master of the Hudson for the past two years,pushed the ship to its limit of capability in getting quttkly to the scene of the explosion and maneuvered so that no harm could come to the crew of the Cape Freels auring the pick~p period.

It is a tribute to the efficiency of the Hudson's company that seventeen minutes after the rescue operation began all the men were safely on board. Certainly the efforts of the medical crew of the ~ was in large part responsible for limiting the sufferiag they must have experienced. I know all members of this hon. House wil want to join in a motion of gratitude to the officers and crew of the C.C.G.S. Hudson who affected this rescue and brought our cotm·trymen safely home. 2995

March 16, 1976 Tape 1136 PK - 2 SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER MOORES: Mr. Speaker, while I am on my feet an event that did not have the same threat of tragic but certainly one of enjoyment, one of great pride in our Province was the event that was finished last Saturday in Regina. I wish to rise today to perform the extremely pleasant task of extending the tribute of the government to Jack MacDuff and his St. John's Cutling Club Rink- SOME RON • MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER MOORES: - on having brought great honour to their Province in the winning of the Canadian Men's Curling Championship.

I know all members will wish to join in the unanimous expression of congratulations to those four young men who against almost impossible odds, Mr. Speaker, have placed the name of Newfoundland and Labrador in the forefront of sporting interest. In Canada there are several major sporting events, the Stanley Cup where professional hockey teams vie for that championship, the Grey Cup where professional football teams vie 'for that championship.

But I suppose the most major amateur trophy in Canada, not necessarily in our Province, because it is not a well known sport here, but certainly in Canada curling, the Brier is recognized as the senior amateur trophy in Canada. In addition to Skip Jack MacDuff the other members of the rink are Toby McDonald, Doug Hudson and Ken Templeton. Jack MacDuff has chosen to make his home in Newfoundland and the other three aee native born and raised. We are proud that our Province has produced such fine examples of young Canadians.

Their victories were perhaps even sweeter when one considers that their winning was not expected. When they went into the Brier competition there were only a handful of people in the rink who thought the boy• had even a remote chance. Amongst those handful of people was the faith and confidence, fortunately were the boys themselves. We watched 2996

March 16, 1976. PREMlER MOORES: Tape 1137 RH - 1 on television and listened on radio throughout the past week as almost miraculously the victories of the Newfoundlanders kept piling up. On Saturday past our team put it all together in front of the whole nation beating one of the best teams in Canada to clinch the Brier. Mr.

Speaker, I suppose the greatest phenomena of that feat was the fact that Quebec, Ontario and Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia- the provinces who excel so much at curling - were all defeated by the New­ foundland rink with their losing only to New Brunswick and to the Northern Ontario rinks. Certainly all residents of our Province will be watching closely tvhen the new Canadian champions represent our country in the world championships in Duluth, Minnesota. Mr.

Speaker, it is pretty emotional stuff when we realize that the Newfoundland rink representing our great country of Canada will be playing against Sweden, Germany, France, Italy, Scotland and all these other great nations of the world. We in Newfoundland have the honour to represent our country in such a competition. I would ask all members of this hon. House to join w-ith me in supporting a motion through you, Sir, to send our congratulatio~s and very best wishes to the MacDuff rink. SOHE HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear: HR. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. E. ROBERTS: Mr.

Speaker, my colleagues and I very sincerely wish to be associated with the two motions which have been moved hy the Premier and I am very happy to have the opportunity to second each of them, ~ir. Speaker, in accordance with the tradition of the House.

If I might say a word or two first about the MacDuff rink and Jack MacDuff and his colleagues in the rink that has won the Brier, I know that every citizen of this Province was as thrilled as every member of the House must have been on Saturday after­ noon ~;hen we watched the final game being played out and watched the Newfound­ land rink do the impossible, because,as the Premier so well put it,I do not think anybody at the start of the Brier believed that our rink would ever be able to pull it off. The best we had ever done before, I believe 1, was 2997

Harch 16, l'l76. tiR. ROBERTS: Tape 1137 RH - 2 Cole's rink three or four years past. Another rink before that ~von four out of the eleven games that are played at the Brier. there being twelve rinks in the competition, won four out of eleven and our boys went this time and lvon nine out of eleven. I think every Newfoundlanders is proud and pleased and happy that our representatives were able to do so extra- ' ordinary well. Of course we wish them every success as they go on to Duluth in Minnesota to take

part in the world championships. The other matter which was made the subject of a motion by the Premier, Mr. Speaker, if possible is one of even greater joy.

All New­ foundlanders are very deeply conscious of the fact that the sea can be a good friend and a good servant,but can be a cruel and a heartless master, and every Newfoundlanders,! know:agonized with the people who had relatives and friends on the Cape Freels, agonized from the moment the news first came of the fact that the ship had caught fire and was in trouble to the moment when the 1vord was flashed that the Hudson 1in a magnificent feat of seamanship~had found the ship and had succeeded in ~etting these t~venty-three men aboard from, as I understand it, a lifeboat and two small life rafts. HR.

NEARY: Thanks to the Air-Sea Rescue. NR. ROBERTS: My friend, the gentleman from LaPoile says, "Thanks to the air sea rescue." Well I was coming to that because it was Air-Sea Rescue people who found them and who stayed with them and who dropped the extra supplies. I think every member must have felt a great upsurge of joy and pride as he read of the, I think it was a Buffalo circling the boat. They had found them and there were a number of men on it. They did not ltnow how many there were.

They did not know whether all the crew had gotten off or whether they were all there in the three vessels joined together. 1 gather the pilot of the Buffalo aircraft wrote a note and threw it down and said, "If you are all there, if all the men from the crew ate with you, raise the oars on your lifeboat and if they are not there lvell leave the oars in the water." l•'hat a moment of joy it must have been when those oars were shipped up and the crew of the aircraft realized that all the crew of the Cape ~reels had been found. 2998

• .1 March 16, 1976 Tape no. lllR Page 1 - mw liON.' E. M. ROBERTS (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, while I am on my feet I have just had word- and perhaps I could say a word and I suspect the Premier would wish to say word and the gentleman from Twillingate (Mr. Smallwood) - a former member of this House, a very close friend of many of us, Sir, died in St. John's this morning, Captain Uriah Strickland, who had been a member of the House from 1956 until the 1972 election. Captain Strickland as many members, I think, knew had been ill for some time. He fought a valiant struggle against a dreadful disease.

He carried on with faith and with courage, and he succumbed just about eleven o'clock this morning. As I recall it, Mr. Speaker, Captain Strickland was first elected to the House in 1956 in the former district of Bonavista South. He was elected in 1959 in the district of Trinity South and then re-elected in that district in 1962 and in 1966 and in 1971 was elected to represent the people of Trinity North in the House of Assembly, a seat which he held until the 1972 election when the electorate, by a narrow but none the less decisive margin, elec·ted the present member for Trinity North (Mr.

Brett) to be their member. Sir, all of us who knew Captain Strickland will miss him. He was a giant of a man, a man who had made his trade first following the sea,and then came into political life and contributed very mightily to the political life of this Province. All of us Who have heard him speak in the House will remember with joy- even though it is a sad moment-with joy and with gratitude.the way in which he spoke and the message he brought. He was fearless. He stood and fought for those things in which he believed. He believed and cared very deeply about the public affairs of this Province.

In private life 1or in non-public life 1Captain Strickland was a man of the very deepest Christian beliefs who lived by those beliefs, who held them very strongly and fought valiantly. Sir, his struggle against illness, as I have said, was a long one. It was a cruel one but he maintained his beliefs and fought with courage and just with great valor right to the end. 2999

March 16, 1976 Hr. Roberts. Tape no .1138 Page Sir, I would second the motion which I know the Premier would want to move that the clerk be asked to write the requisite letter to his family. His brother F'rar.k, I believe, is the closest surviving relative. I know, Sir, that everybody who knew Hughie Strickland will miss him. He served this Province well. }IR. SPEAKE!> (DR. COLLINS): The han. the Premier . 2 P'RENIER r!00P.ES: ~r. Speaker, before the han. member for T~dllingate (Mr. Sl!lalhmod) rises I 'wuld like if I could to make that motion.

I had not realized that Captain Strickland had passed a\o~ay this morning. I did not have the good fortune of serving in this House when he was here. I did kno w him as an individual. I knew him quite '"ell over the years. I considered Uriah Strickland not just a politician and a sea captain but also a person who I certainly had no trouble communicating with, a man who I respected, a man who cared very deeply, as the Leader of the Opposition has said, about public life in this Province.

It is w1.th great sadness, Sir, that I at this time make this motion, seconded by the Leader of the Opposition, because at a time 11l'e this partisan politics goes by the boards pretty rapidly because an individual, irrespecti.ve of political belief,who madE' the contribution to 01ir Province that r.aptain Strickland made is certainly one that is a hove partisan politics of any kind. I, Sir, glady maJ:e the motion, but,as I say,~vith deepest sympathy to a person I considered as a friend. ·~ . SPF.AKEP ( R. COLLINS): The han. member for Twillingate. }111.. S:'-'.ALUIOOD: :Mr.

Speaker, I join sorrowfully in the third of the resolutions moved by the Premier. Captain Uriah Strickland ~Tas brought into public life by me. He sat with me on that side of t'!e House for eight or ten years. He served for a Hhlle,I believe, as my Parliamentary Assistant in the House and those who sat here at that time "·ill rememher the magn:Uicent speeches that he made. He was one of the finest speakers in the House and T hear no"' ,d.th great sorrow of his death. 3000

Harch 16,1976 Tape No. ],138 Page 3 ;m SJ.fALUIOOD: I join happily in the support of the t1~0 other resolutions l!'.oved by the Premi er. I am sure that all Newfoundland has heen vecy proud an<1 very happy. NR. SPEAKER (DR. COLLINS):- It bas been moved .and seconded that a message of condolence be sent concernin g the death of Captain Uri ah Strickland-; carried. It has been moved that - a message of congratulations regarding the Cape Freels be sent; carried. It has been moved and seconded that a message regarding the racDuff rinl t be sent concerning the winning of the Canadian Brier~ carried . 3001

March 16, 1976 Tape no. 1139 Page 1 - mw MR. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): Further ministerial statements. The hon. Minister of Manpower and Industrial Relations. l1R. MAYNARD: I have two short statements that I would like to make. The first is in relation to the request from the International Brotherhood of Electrical Harkers Union at Churchill Falls, which was made more than a week ago 1 for an industrial inquiry into all aspects of labour-management relations in that area. I have informed the union by telegram yesterdav af~ernoon that their request for an inquiry at this time has been rejected by me.

In my opinion an inquiry would not serve any useful purpose while the present negotiations for a new contract are on-going. Therefore I have requested both parties, the CFLCo management and the union,to meet here in St. John's or somewhere ~ithin the Province of Newfoundland, with the assistance of my Director of Labour Relations, to resume negotiations with a view to working out a new contract for that area. The proposed meetings, acco·rding to my latest infonnation,will possibly take place on Thursday morning here in St. John's.

Further to the request for an industrial inquiry, even though the re~uest has been rejected at this time, I might point out that under the Labour Relations Act I can at any time appGint such an inquiry if I deem it to be necessary. The second short statement I have is in relation to the appoint of the Human Rights Commission. In accordance with

Section 16 (a) ( 1) of the Human Rights Code this commission has been set up to investigate allegations of discrimination tn employment made by three residents of Labrador City. The three men, William Armstrong, Noel Seaward and Samuel J. Codner were former employees of the Iron Ore Company of Canada. In each case the men found employment - they were dismissed from the Iron Ore Company of Canada employment - in each case they found employment with construction contractors operating in Labrador City and performing work for the Iron Ore Company.

They allege that the Iron Ore Company exerted pressure on their employer, the contractor, to terminate their services because they had been dismissed previously from 3002

March 16, 1976 Tape no. 1139 Page 2 - mw Mr. Maynard. their employment with IOC. The Human Rights Commission will consist of Mrs. Gertrude Keough; chairman and Mr. Fred Coates, member. The commission will begin its investigation into the complaints immediately and will report to me the outcome of the i·nvestigation together with recommendations for necessary remedial action if a settlement cannot be effected during the hearings of the commission. MR. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. ROBERTS: Mr.

Speaker, the second statement to which the minister made requires no comment, and indeed I think any detailed comment would be inappropriate in view of the fact that this is, I suppose, a quasi-judicial or something approaching a judicial investigation that is to be made. We will await with interest the results of the report. I assume the report will be made public either by being laid upon the table of the House or being released to the public in some other fashion. The first of the statements made by the minister, Mr.

Speaker, is in a little different position and that was the one where he said that at the time being he sees no point in using his ministerial authority to appoint an industrial inquiry into the strike, the lawful strike which is being carried out at Churchill Falls by members of the IBEW,and that negotiations,or at least a meeting between the two parties to that strike, the union on one side and the CFLCo management on the other side, will be held here in St. John's on Thursday morning.

Well, of course, given the fact that negotiations are - or at least a meeting, and I am not sure there are to be negotiations - that a meeting is to be held on Thursay, we will have to abide the outcome, because if the matter can be settled there then that is well and good. But I would say, Mr. Speaker, that from what I know of the situation at Churchill Falls,and from what my colleagues have learned of the situation at Churchill Falls,the minister would be well-advised to appoint the industrial inquiry whether it is involved in settling this particular 3003

March 16, 1976 Tape no. 1139 Page J - mw Mr. Roberts~ · strike or not. It is obvious I think, ~tr. Speaker, to anybody with eyes to see or ears to hear that there is something very wrong in labour management relations at Churchill Falls. And from 1~hat I know, and as I have said I may not have the fuil story, but from what I know by far th e prepond erance of the blame rests squarel v and f airly with the management. SOME HON. ~!EBBERS: Hear, hear! MR. ROBERTS: It is a 3004

!'arch 16, 1976 Tape 1140 IB-1 VP T'ORE"TS: company to~m, ~fr. Speaker, and it is not only a ca~pany town - and our experience with company towns in this Province has been bad, far more ba~ than good - hut it is a company tovm that 1s extremely isolated. I think the comb:!nation of those factors and what appears to be an i.nsensitive and an uncaring ll'anagement attitude has produced very, very unpleasant situations. ~'T". NE,~_I'Y: Hhat the eyes do not see, the he2rt roes not feel. _l'P.. P.OBEI'T~: HeH, the gentleman from LaPoi] e (~'r. Neary) says that what the eye~ do not see the heart does not feel.

T think that is well said. Rut, Yr. Speaker, the matter of rhurch:l]l Palls is a very serious one. He -...dll h<'lve more to eay about H at the appropriate tilT'e, but I would say now, quite simply, that I •A'ould commend to the m:lni.ster most strong] y the suggestion that lvhether or not the str:lke is resolvecl is one th:lng,but the entire situation in r.hurchill Fnlls is a far different thing, and I ••anld suggest to him that an in~ustrial enquiry is greatly needed and the results 'muld justify 1t. He have an unhappy s:l t.uat:lon, l•r. Speaker.

It is the art of prudence and of '•isdom-or the act of prudence and of w:f.sdom to look into it nm,• and to take the appropriate steps to ensure that :It becc>mes no ••orse and th<'lt just grievances are given just redress. srWE H\lN. l'E"BEPS : T'ear, hear! }~. SPEAKE~> (~r. rollins); Agriculture. :ohe hon. ~'in:lster of Fo:te.stry and "r. Speaker, I v10uld l:l.ke T"ake a statement as well in my role as l'inister of Forestry and Agriculture. Rabies has been confirmed in a fox taken i.n the Border Beacon area of Labrador.

As a precautionary measure residents of Labrador are advised to have their dogs and cats vaccinated against rabies. An immune c'og and cat population will present a barri.er against the spread of the disease from the ~'ildlife reservoir to dolT'est:ic an:lmals. 3005

rfarch 16, 1976 Tape 1140 MR . ROUSSEAU: Residents in the Labrador City-Wabush area may arrange veterinary services and vaccination by contacting Dr. Marcel Pellerin, P.O. Box 400, Lennoxville, and Dr. Kenneth La Chapelle, Ste. Foy, Quebec. AN l!O:-l . !!E,!BER: no we not have any veterinarians? MR. ROUSSEAU: We have none in Labrador Hest, no. IB-2 Residents in the Happy Valley~oose Bay area should contact Dr. Robert T. Furness, Box 217, Station A, Goose Bay. .J1R. NEARY: Is Dr. Furness going up to Quebec over the weekend? }W,.ROUSSEAU: Same thing, yes.

These veterinarians are registered and licensed to practice in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador and are proviclinr; services to the public in the areas stated. SOHE HON. l-1EW3ERS: Oh, oh! X!'. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins) : Order, please! SOHE HON. ME}'BERS: Oh, oh! HR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Forestry and Agriculture. ~'R. ROUSSEAU: This, Nr. Speaker, is what you would call truly a group statement. Every effort must be made to prevent introductjon of the disease into the Island part of the Province. SOHE H11N. ~'.E!"Jl31lRS: Oh, oh! MR. SPO:AKER: Order, please! The hon. minister has the floor.

SO lE HON . ME~ER: Oh, oh! }!R. LUND J:Gf.N : !~r. Speaker, why does the hon. gentleman not be quiet for a feH moments until my colleague finishes his statement? ~.R. ROBEitTS: If the hon. minister will be equally quiet. A.~ fiON . ~:E. !BER : Oh, oh! ~ ffi. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. ROUSSEAU: No, this could be a very serious matter. Every effort must be made to prevent introduction of the disease onto the Island part of the Province. To this end movement of domestic dogs and cats from Labrador onto the Island will be restricted by pennit. and vaccination.

Effective immediately persons wishing to ship or bring a dog 3006

":-rch 1 t;, 1976 Tape llk fl !B-3 or 11 cnt from Lahractor to the Is.l and must H rst obtain a permit f rom th~ ~nimal Pcal th ~!vision of the ~epartment of forestry and A,;riculture , at'ld the telephone number and a~c' 0ess is here in the release, and present proof of vaccination nr.~inst rabie~ within the preceding twelve months but not later than the preceding thirty days .

Airlines and other common carriers operating in and out of T.ab-ra<'or nre :~dvised not to accept do~s and cats for trru1sportation to t he IsJ and unless the owner or shipper presents the pet"l'lit, health and ra b:ie~ vaccination ce r t:lf:lcnte for Ptt Pchrnen t to thP r1ll of lactin~ a<:complln1nr the animl'ls . The l"Ovement of cats and clogs into T.ahractor fro!" Preas outs:ic'e th~> J>r<>vince ~r.l ll cont:lnue until similar restrictions pt •·v'rlect ' " the J.ivest<>ck f!ealth ~'erul<~tions, 1973.

Pull co-operation of resirlents, kennel operator.s and commons carrie r s in these control measu-res is essential . Lah ra<!or resident~; are advisee! to vie~>· with suspicion any a bno~al behavio r observed in wild animals such ns foxes, skunks, ;md wolves nod ctomestic rlo€S and cats . The observattc>n flf such an11'!All' should he handled td th due caution and a report mac'e to the neare s t IJ:Ilc'life officer , tor est t:ange r or the Animal nc~Jth nivi.s:lon, Tlepartment of Forestry ancl Ap.ricul ture .

Such reports with assist r.reatly i.n an nsaessment of the true incidence of rnbies in the 1,1\brndor areA. l'O"'E f!ON . t'E' 'J\Fl'S : ~en r , hear! 3007

March 16, 1976 Tape NO • 1141 ID\' - 1 M!! •• SPEAKER (DR. COLLINS): The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker-- PR.mf!ER 'I"'CIRES: Ta\ke it easy. :MR • . ROBEltTS: - we all listened with interest to the ministeris statement. The Premier has asked me to take it easy. I would ask him H he has had Us inoculations recently, Sir, I am glad he has and I would ask him in what form they come. Mr.

Speaker, we have all listened ~nth interest to the minister's statement. particularly ~-7hen his colleagues l·rould allo~r him tci go on •nth it;an.d t thinlc it fs a very i'll'!porta.nt matter althougll it 111ay not seem to ' l>e so to m•my in the House, !':ir. 'R.ab1.es is an extremely vfrulent d:f.seaAe, extremely contagious and although I am not competent to give medical opinions I understand that it is extremely serious an~ that in many cases rabies is fatal not only to animals but it is particularly dangerous to human beings. Hr.

Speaker, the one comment I '~ould make, the minister seems to have made some wise moves in restricting the movement of arti~als, because of course animals are the prime carriers of rabies 1 and it is very ~asy as I understand it for rabies to move from animals th~t are wild to animals that are domesticated. There are constant interchanges back and forth and the minister is wise to restrict the 1110vement of animals t-0 try to localize the outbreak 01herever it may he, and if it is only one fox well that is even better. TI;Ut the point of concern I would raise, }{r.

Speaker, is this. nie n>inister gave a number of names of veterinarians who I assume are availa ble to administer this and,secondly,have the necessary serum in stock. I , would suggest to the minister most strongly, Mr. Speaker, that that is entirely inadequate in the circumstances1 I am not sure whether it is his responsibility or that of his colleague the ''iti.ister of Health, but I think that arrangements should be made immediately to take one of the seven or eight, or six or five, or hm~ever many veteranarians there are on • the staff of the Province- they 3008

"arc~ 16, 1976 Tape No. 1141 NH - 2 MR. JI.OBERTS: work in the minister's department-to ask one of them to go down to Happy Valley and then over to Labrador l~est,or to go to Labrador West first and then come back to Happy Valley, and to take with him a stock of the rabies serum and then inoculate all of the pets in the area, because that, Sir, is the only w8Y,as I understand it, that we can be sure and certain that there will not be any possiblity of an outbreak,or,at least if we cannot be sure and certain.that will reduce the possibility of an outbreak to the very llinimum.

In my experience, Sir, rabies has been largely unkn~?U in NewfoundlAnd. 1 do not think we have had very many cases of it at all. It is an extremely virulent disease, highly contagious, and I do not know if it is incurable in the sense if one contracts it orte necessarily dies,but I know the course of traatment is extraordinarily pai*ful, extraordinarily complicated and anything that could be done to avoid that possiblf.lity should be done.

So I would suggest, to the minister that he take one of the veterinarians on his staff and ask him to go in the morning on the EPA flight,carrying '~ith him large quantities of that serum, put it on the radio stations in Labrador West and Wabush, the station there,that the service is available. There should be no charge for it.

This is at least as useful as some of the other Ythings that the Prov ince spends money on,and let us see what we can do to ensure that every domestic pet and animal in Labrador West is inoculated,and then let us do whatever other steps are Within our po~r ers, such as the restricting of movement; of animals to make sure that this outbreak is contained to the very smallest possible area and number of animals. 3009

~larch 16, 1976 Tape No. 1142 NH- 1 PRESENTING PETITIONS: 1'R. .SPEAKER (DR. COLLINS) : The hon. member for LaPoile. HR. NEARY: ~r. Speaker, I beg leave of the House, Sir, and the hon. House Leader,if it is in order, Sir, to present a petition on behalf of 843 citizens of the electoral district of LaPoile, mainly in the Port aux Basques area. The prayer of the petition, 1!r.

Speaker, is as· follows: "lve the undersigned support the Brotherhood of Railway 1 Airline and Steamship Clerks, Freight Handlers, Express and Station Employees efforts in trying to have Canadian National put back into service their full number of freight trains from Port aux Basques and also extra trains when necessary. During the months of February and March partic.ularly.after the present number of trains left Port aux Basques,there were as high as ninety carloads of freight left behind at Port aux Basques with no train to haul it.

If Canadian National were to use the number of trains according to the work load economic.ally,all areas of the Province would benefit." ~!r. Speaker, a few words in support of this petition I think would be in order, Sir. Back last Fall, Mr. Speaker, there was a sudden down turn in the amount of freight coming into this Province and was due to two or three reasons, one of the principle reasons being that the trac.tor-trailers,as all hon. members of the House know, are now taking over from the railway.

But apart from that, Sir, we had a number of strikes, major labour disputes going on in the Province at the present time, especially the one in Corner Brook, in St. Lawrence. There was another one\! believe, in the linerboard mill and there were several major disputes going on at the time and so there was a drastic. reduction in the amount of freight coming into this Province and the whole economy seemed to he affected by these strikes.

And CN decided at the time, because of the drastic ~eduction in the amount of freight coming in and the amount that was coming in on rubber tires, tractor-trailers, decided to put eight locomotives in moth balls in Bishop's Falls. 3010

r1arch Hi. 1976 Tape No. lllf2 N}' - 2 ~m. NEARY: When the strikes were over, Sir, and when the economy started to pick up slightly a few ~reeks ago, there was a sudden upsurge in the amount of freight coming into this Province,and all of a sudden, Sir, the yards out in Port aux Basques are blocked with boxcars and as the prayer of the petition indicates, there has been as high as ninety carloads of freight left behirld. That means, ~'r.

Speaker, that there is bound to be delays in delivery of freight and the workers in Port .mx Basques are likely to be accused uftfairly and unjustifiably for the delays caused in the delivery of this freight when in actual fact, Sir, it is due to the shortsighted policy of CN. And I am told, Mr. Speaker, that when the time came to put the locomotives bad~ in operation to start moving this freight out of Port aux Basques,that nobody in Newfoundland had the authority to make a decision.

It is unbelievable, Sir, that they have to try to wait for some nincompoop over in }'oncton or over in Hontreal to make a decision to put the locomotives back in operation and to my knowledge so far they have only put back four out of the eight locomotives that were put in in storage in Bishop's Falls. Mr. Speaker, as of today, I checked this morning-just before I came intn this House this afernoon, as a matter of fact. and I am told that there are ninety cara · of freight in the yard as of this morning.

And unfortunately, Sir, in the last fhree or four days we have had storms and due to ice conditions there is great difficulty now being encountered in moving these boxcars. So, Hr. Speaker, I have no hesitation at all- HR. LUNDRICAN: Where is the delay~on this side or on ~he other side? rm. NEARY: nn this side 0 I am glad the hon. member interrrupted there, Sir. There was one occasion,if not more than one occasion,when the sh.ps were loaded in North Sydney and had to lay outside.

They could not come into Port aux Basques because the yard was blocked with boxcars,and that is costing Canadian National a pretty penny. So, Sir, I condemn Canadian National strongly for the:l.r penny-wise, pound- foolish policy. I support the prayer of the petition, Sir, and I do hope that as a result of"this petition that a bit of common sense would be knocked into the skulls of those who make the decisions for CN. 3011

Harch 16, 1976 Tape No, 1142 NM- 3 MR,, NEARY: I think the decision-making should be here in this Province­ and I have got more to say about that later on- and not over in Moncton or over in Montreal. But it is a serious problem, Sir, and Mr. Speaker, apart from that,as I mentioned the other day,look at the damage that is being done to our highway when freight should be moving by rail. We do have a railway, Sir, and as far as I am concerned a ~rovince or a country is nothing without a railway. And, Hr.

Speaker, another problem that is created as a result of this bac~og is that the cars are not brought in and unloaded and then brought back so they can get empty boxcars . So, Sir, it creates quite a headache all because of a stupid CN policy and try:b'lg to get the proper authorities over in Moncton or :t-1'ontreal to recogni~e the problem. They are not on the spot. I have been there. I have seen it myself, I get reports every day,practically 1 from Port Aux Basques about this problem. It is a very serious , problem, Sir, and one that should be rectified immediately. So it gives me great pleasure, Mr.

Speaker, to ask that this petition be placed upon the table of the House and referred to the department to which it relates, which I presume is the 1~inister of Transportation and Communications, :t-1'R . SPEAKE~ (nR. COLLINS): The hon. Minister of Transportation and Communicationa. MR. MnRGAN: Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the petition from the people in the hon. gentleman's riding. Back in the early part of January of this year, shortly afte~ 3012

March 16, 1976 Tape 1143 PK - 1 Mr. Morgan: CN decided to la~ off approximately thirty men who were connected with the rail freight operations in the Province, I met with the CN officials locally and also with the Regional Vice-President. Mr. David Blair who is working from the Moncton office. And after meeting with the officials I convened a meeting between the officials of the CN and the various union representatives, and that meeting was for. the sole purpose to find out what the CN was doing with regards to the reduction of service ... and ' ;:.y it was taking place.

The officials then indicated. and I refer in particular to Mr. David Blair 1 who is the official spokesman for the CN in this region of the country,that be then gave the unions and myself. as Minister of Transportation in the Province, a firm commitment that as soon as the freight volumes iaproved or increased,that the rail freight operations we put back prior to what they were. prior to January 1. 1976.

And the reason given for the reduction in freight volume was basically because of the situation in the Province at the time, there were strikes on,as the bon. gentleman mentioned. in the two pulp and paper industries in the Province. So approximately two weeks ago I received correspondence from the various unions again, and this was at my request, because I want them to keep me inforaed as to the volume of freight and the movement of same in the Province.

And two weeks ago they informed me in writing as well as verbally that the freight volume bad improved substantially. increased substantially and they had gathered the evidence to that effect. They gave the evidence to me in writing. I then jmmediately contacted Mr. Blair and the local officials and asked them to honour the commitment fiven back in January that the trains would be put back. number one, and the mea rehired, number two. The reply I received from Mr.

Blair was last week. in fact, last Tu~sday,in a telegram,and he indicated then that he would be rehiring a number of men,unspecified,this week,and he would continue to rehire as long as the freight volumes kept improving. So I have already taken 3013

March 16, 1976 Tape 1143 Mr. Morgan: note of some of the points brought forward in presenting the petition today.on behalf of the people in LaPoile district. PK - 2 For example, the fact that there are ninety carloads of freight presently in the Port - aux Basques area. I will investigate that matter in the next couple of days, and if this is so you can be assured that representation will be made by this government to the CNR to have the situation corrected.

Apd further representation will also be made to have the men rehired and all the trains, all of them, · not just four out of the wisht, but all the trains put back as they were when the freight situation was as it was in December1 1975 . With regards to the CN policy,! can assure this hon. House of Assembly that this government strongly opposes the diversion or downgrading, number one, the downgrading of the existing rail freight service in the Province. And,number two, any diversion of the rail freight sy.stem, from that system to tire freight, or to the trucks, we strongly oppose that.

We see no reason why there should be any downgrading of the rail freight service in this Province. So I fully support the petition and I will make every effort on behalf of my department to get things back to normal with the CNR. MR. SPEAKER (COLLINS) The hon. member for Lewisporte. MR. F. WRITE: Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the prayer of the petition as presented by my hon. friend, the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary). This is the second petition, Sir, that has been presented in this House in connection with Canadian National in this session.

I presented one signed by almost 2,000 people a couple of weeks ago, and I have had some good response to that petition from members opposite, and they have assured me that they are g•ing to look into the sit\lStion. What I am concerned about, Mr. Speaker, is that we are pnly going at the problems with respect to Canadian National on an ad hoc basis. We are not 3014 .

. March 16, 1976 Tape no. 1144 Page 1 - mw Mr. White. dealing with it on a general basis, an overall basis,as we should be. Canadian National in this Province are getting away with things that they should not be getting away with. I, too, was aware of the fact that eight diesels had been mothballed at Bishop's Falls. I was taken there by CN workers and shown the locomotives. They should have been ready to go again when the business picked up. CN had suggested to the Minister of Transportation and Communications that employees would be rehired when the freight volume : pi~ked up.

They would not give me that in writing. I asked them for it in writing, but they would not give it to me.

I think, Sir, that this government, the government now and with the support of the Opposition,has to go to the federal government, who have ultimately the responsibility for Canadian National,and take up the entire issue of CN in Newfoundland, not just the Lewisporte situation, and not just the Port aux Basques situation,but CN in general in this Province, because I am afraid that CN are in fact deliberately downgrading their service in this Province and trying to get out from under the services that they are providing here. And in that connection, Mr.

Speaker, I do not think it is the problem of CN management in Newfoundland, and I do not think it is the problem of CN employees in Newfoundland. I think it is CN policy on the mainland and we have to take strong action with respect to that, and it gives me a great deal of pleasure to support the petition from the member for LaPoile (Mr. Nea~-y). MR. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): The hon. member for Bay of Islands. MR. WOODROW! : Mr. Speaker, as a member of the West Coast of Newfoundland in general, of course, of the Bay of Islands in particula~, I want to support this petition.

I would like to say, and I would like for this to be made known, that Port aux Basques is the main artery to Newfoundland from the West. St. John's is referred to as the hub of activity , 3015

March 16, 1976 Tape no. 1144 Page 2 - liiiU Mr. Woodrow. but at least almost everything that comes from the mainland comes directly to Port aux Basques, and the city of Corner Brook,as you know, is referred to as the second city, and we have to realize the importanee of the city of Corner Brook to the Province of Newfoundland. I am speaking in favour of this becaoae a part of my district, the urban part of my district, is a part of the city of Corner Brook and everything that comes to Corner Brook, at least by rail, which comes from Nova Scotia, comes in through Port aux Basques.

Now speaking about the CH: I became a member of council in Corner Brook in 1972, February 7, and we were having our troubles and trials with the CN, and I remember a year or so ago we were having problems, -anat:nls -again -was wifli - the rails in the district of the Bay of Islands, and we had a meeting with Mr. Blair. His name was already mentioned here today. And it seemed in fact - I got to agree with the member for Lewisporte (Mr. White) - he just seemed to be taking things in a nonchalant manner, taking us for granted more or less, downgrading us, looking upon us as second.f.class citizens. I also travel.

In fact I deliberately, on a couple of occasions, travelled on the CN buses. I did it in fact within the past month. I talked with people who travlled on them and at a particular meeting that we had, about a year ago, with Mr. Blair I told him in no uncertain terms how 1 feli: -towards the buses.

Now I think th&t it is time for us, aa the saying goes, to take the bull by the horns, to unite together, all parties together,and let the CN people know that we are not going to be downgraded, that we are Canadians -; we are Canadians, and we should strive not to be second-class Canadians but first-class Canadians and I whole-heartedly agree with the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary). I think in fact that this perhaps is one of the greatest petitions that we should support, because we are supporting a petition not only for the district of LaPoile but I would say for the West Coast of the Province, in general.

I am sorry that the member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder) and the member for Stephenville (Mr. McNeil) are not here 3016

March l6, 1976 Tape no. 1144 Page 3 - mw ~II. \loodrow . bec8use I know they would give their whole heart and soul to th is petition . So I want to say, ~lr . Speaker, that in no uncertain terms that I back this petition completely, and I feel the other members for the \~est Coast will back it as well. Thanl ; you . ~m. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): The hon. member for Coneption Bay South . 3017

Harch _l6, 1976. Tape 1145 RH - 1 MR. J. NOLAN: Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the petition and feel very, very stro~gly about it personally as do obviously other members of this House,and also to say that in answer I would think that the query of the hon. member concerning the member for Port au Port and Stephenville that they are very, very much aware of the activities of CN in this Province. I was particularly interested also in the remarks hy my hon. friend from Lewisporte, the hon. member there. I honestly feel, I must be perfectly frank with you, Mr. Speaker, I do not trust CNR in this Province.

I do not trust the central corporate mind of CNR as it refers to this Province. I really do not. I am not in any way casting any aspersions on those who are locally responsible. I feel that the button or the thumb is put on from somewhere other than here. I do not trust them ar>d it is as simple . as that. I t~ould feel that the Minister, for example, of Industrial Development is to a large extent dependent on how transport is provided one way or another in this Province,either to carry goods, provide services of one kind or other, either coming or going.

I do not feel that the decisions that are so important to us are made here in this Province. I honestly believe as the hon. member indicate~ that we need some kind of an overall attack, if you like, on the CNR and their whole approach to travel and traffic in this Province where they are involved. They are no private little firm. They are working with our dollars subsidized by the people of Newfoundland as well as they are in any other part of Canada.

I am quite sure that those t~o are the corporate giants,or however you might like to refer them,in Ontario or Moncton or wherever they are located will probably baffle or attempt to baffle the Minister of Transportation and Communication with figures indicating that here in Newfoundland at such a great phenomenal cost we only have this many dollars or that many people and so on, Pardon? MR. WOODROW: The region is the Atlantic. MR. NOLAN: The Atlantic region, perfectly correct, perfectly correct. liere in Ontario, Quebec and so on we have an entirely difference ball game 3018

!larch 16, 1 'Y76 . MR. NOLAN: Tape 114 5 RH - 2 altogether. nut I suggest to you that if this is the attitude they have adopted in the past and will continue to adopt,that we hnve not got a chance in hell to have any kind of an equalization with CNR as far as the proper movement of freight is concerned. I think we now need a concerted attack to bring them up short, to make a lot of noise, to indicate that we are all interestecl - no matter what side of the House we are on- that this is a provincial matter that is going to affect us.

I mean I get poisoned when I realize that up there somewhere today they are probably making plans down the road that are going to affect all of us long after, perhaps,we gone out of this House. I think that the Hinister of Transportation and Communication Hill ~et substantial support. I know for example- and all we talk to in many cases and should are often times employees and this is 1vhere you really get the drift of Hhat is happening in r.~, the y are mothballing locomotives, the fact that things are falling off in a certain area. In my C'wn district, for example, any number of people Hork with the CNR.

I have gone to the CNR, not only personally, but a number of times, for example, with the hon. Minister of J'isheries 1vhen he was either a membe1;; of the House of Commons or in fact when he 1vas councillor in the city of St.John's. AN l!m'L l"E?nlER: C\\1 was always impossible to deal with . HR . NOL.lti'l: Yes, perfectly right. But he has always had a great interest in it. I believe now that we have to make these people nware that He are not ::~ oing to take any more fooling around, that 1ve really mean business.

In mv o1vn district, people who \vork out there tell me that they do not know from one day to the other with CNR whether they are P,oing to be in a job or out of a job, whether the business is going to improve or go down. Rut it is getting worse, and if we sit here idly -and I do not think it is enoup,h for any of us to leave it merely to the ~linister of Transportation and Comrimnication.

I think now is the time for all members of this House, no matter what side they are on to either put up or shut up insofar as the CNR is concerned and not to be found in a position possibly in the not too dist·ant future where they will decide either to mothballs some more 3019

Harch 16, 1976. HR. NOLAN: Tape H45 RH - 3 locomotives, have another boxing up of boxcars out around Po rt aux Basques, like the hon . member of LaPoile mentioned. But l really believe this to be a very serious matter. I wish we could arrange, not only for a good frontal attack by all of us here who are elected members of the Rouse of Assembly, but that we have a watching brief , not just when some special problem comes up but· to keep a very close eye on the activities of CNR and some of what I believe to be the Q~ scheming on the mainland towards tltis Province . Frankly,! do not trust them. SONE HON.

MEMBERS: Rear , hear! HR. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): The Minister of Industrial and Rural Development. HON . J. LUNDRIGAN: }1r. Speaker, having a couple of days ago gotten up in the House and indicated my concern about the length of t ime we had taken presenting petitions, I have to cont radict myself at this l!lOment and take a 'lllinute just to offer my su!)port to my hon. friend from LaPoile{l-lr . Neary) in the presentation of the petition similar t o what I did for my friend from Lewisporte . This petition today and the one a few days ago 3020

March 16, 1976 Tape No. 1146 NM - 1 MR. LUNDF;IGAN: brings back a lot of memories. My friend from St. Mary's - The Capes (Hr. W. Carter) and the present ombudsman ,if he v1ere present here today,I am sure would feel a little bit of the urge to .want to participate,!£ he were permitted, My present colleagues in the House of Commons,who are on all sides of the House,by the way, as was indicated by my friend from my district, Conception Bay South (Hr, Nolan) ancl the Premier of our Province. ~ffi. . ~IURPHY : ifuat about the last ride of the Bullet. Ml.

LUNDRIGAN: The last ride on the Bullet, I am saying,just specifically as it relates to us guys who were at the federal level,but my friend the patriarch of the House, who is the patriarch of tbe House en this side of the House at least, my distinquished fried from St. John's Centre (Mr. }!urphy) was a participant as were other colleagues, the member from Gander (Mr. Collins), and I believe the member for St. John's East Extern (Nr. Rickey), the present han.

Speaker of the House and quite a number of other people who were supporters of both sides of the House of Assembly. vlhen ue were in the House of Co111111ons the first gr.eat fight we took up was to try and preserve and protect the - rights of Newfoundland pe~ple as it related to 6ur rail passenger service. At that time,I suppose,once could say that all of •s has specific vested interests. I represented Bishop's Falls at the time and a number of other centres of rail activity in the Province. Hy friend from St. John's West (~lr.

Carter) at that time represented what you could call,if there is a dual capital in rail service in Newfoundland,it is Port aux Basques and it is St. John's ~lest, the ~~estend of the city. And we were defeated. We were defeated because I always was suspicious that a lot of arrangments and negotiations and decisions had been made without the people of Newfoundland being privileged . as participants in those types of decisions. I have always felt, and I would not back away from one word that was said here today by any hbn. member and their commentary on CN. I have always felt that CNR, and I have made 3021

March 16, 1976 Tape No. 1146 NN - 2 ~- LtmmRIGAN: this clear in representation since I have been involved in government, have never really opened up, opened up in ~ come-clean fashion with the people of this Province to indicate ~~hat their plans are, what their progress will be, what their construction activities will be, what they will do at the dock, what they will do with the freiRht service, what their long-term plans are for Port aux Basques,and people in these centres- and I suppose there is nohody who can make their comment more dramatically than the member who introduced the pet:l.tion - are very, very concerned, they have the feeling in their stomaches, an insecure feeling about ~-That the future giv~s with CNF..

Either that is a result of bad planning or of lack of communications or it is a result of plans that they have that they are ~~are are downgrading the service ~d they have never revealed them to Newfoundland, I am saving this as a minister, I am not saying it as a personal opinion - MR. W. CARTER: Quite true. MP.. Lt~TDRIGAN: I am very concerned that CNR, and the Leader of the Opposition I do not knm-1 if he thinks I am going too far or not far enough - MR. 'ROB:f,RTS: I wish the minister would do something instead of saying something. MR.

LtmDRIGAN: - I am also suggesting to him that I recog~ize that it is a major national problem. It is a problem which is oJ a federal nature and the best that we can do is unite,as ''e have done here today in a fashion that I commend, to try and make the federal government aware of their re.sponsibilities to this Province.

It certainly is not a partisan issue,as the member from Conception Bay South indicated, and this is what I wanted to rise to indicate All of us must in our own way, whether it is a form of communications or it is F form of a support by resolution at some stage from the House, or if it is a move on the part of individual,.ministers such as my colleague 1~ Transportation to support petitions, we have to make Canadian National aware of their responsibiltty. 3022

~larch 16, 1071; Tape No. 1146 1-.'M - 3 1-!R.

LUNDRIGA.'-1: C:verythinp, they do affects not only the cost of living, the distri bution of freight,but it affects the whole of the ahJlity of the Province to develop~and there is no country 1n the world, to my kno~·ledge, from having been involved in a number of yea r s in the debate, hour after hour ­ t he re ts no country in the world that has been able t~ deve lop n sophisticated level of industrial development or development without a good rail service . . 'R. ~lEARY: Hear~ Hear! ·~. tiTNDR1GAN: And t he contradictory part of it is, Your Ronour, is the fact ~~at today in the world where countries are striving to try and develop neu rail systelllS, here we are in our own Province in an area ~rr.ere •.t needs :t rail system more than any part of the Canadian nation, downgrading, He have eliminated and 1<1e are still downr,rading our services. 3023

Harch 16, 1976 Tape no. 1147 Pags 1 - tm~ Mr. Lundrigan. I support the petition, and I would like to commend the approach of the hon. member on this specific issue as a model as to how we should address ourselves to the problems facing this Province. That is something that you will not find any petty debate on.

That is something I am sure that all of us can unite, as a people, as we should do more frequently politically to try and make sure that the national effort and the great national dream as projected across this nation can be achieved by CNR in this Province and by other quasi-judicial bodies and other corporations that have a responsibility to our people. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WOODROW: I would like to ask the minister if he would support a standard gauge railway for the Province of Newfoundland? HR. LUNDRIGAN: Mr. Speaker, I am not conversant enough with all -the details of what needs to be - HR.

ROBERTS: : Mr. Speaker, is this question in order? HR. LUNDRIGAN: Is this in order, Your Honour? MR. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): It is out of order to ask questions at this time. HR. LUNDRIGAN: I will get my statement if I understood what I am talking about,but unlike the bon. member. Hespeaks, but he does not understand what he is saying. HR. ROBERTS: - ---- Mr. Speaker, if it is in order - MR. LUNDRIGAN: I do not know enough about it to answer it. HR. SPEAKER (Br.Collins): Order, please! HR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, if it is in order, AN RON. MEMBER: Sit down! HR.

ROBERTS: - I understood your order to say that the question period had not yet begun. I, for one, am very pleased that the hon. gentleman from Grand Falls (Mr. Lundrigan) is going to confine his statements in the future to those which he understands. I regret that we will be hearing less from him. SOME RON. MEMBER: Hear, hear! 3024

March 16, 1976 Tape no. 1147 Page 2 - mw MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, let me say a word or two in support of the petition. I agree with the points which have been made by the gentlemen on both sides of the House. I think the gentleman from LaPoile (Mr. Neary) presented the case very fairly and very effectively, and I think the other members who spoke, particularly the gentleman from Conception Bay South (Mr. Nolan) and the gentleman from Lewisporte (Mr. \fuite) added very much to the debate. I do not disagree with anything the gentleman from Grand Falls ( Mr.

Lur.drigan) said, and I very much agree with his statement that it should be part of our duty as legislators in this Province to bring the Government of Canada to realize what is the interest of this Province. I very much agree with that, and I would gladly, and have over th'e years tried to do my part to make that so. What I do feel must be said , though, Mr. Speaker, it that it is not enough for gentlemen opposite 1gho are temporarily in the ministry and have the job of carrying on the responsibility of being the Queen's ministers, it is not enough fo~ them, Mr. Speaker, just to talk, Let them act!

The bon. gentleman from Grand Falls (Mr. Lund~igan) holds the Queen's commission as the Minister of Industrial and Rural Development of this Province. His colleague, the gentleman from Bonavista South,holds the Queen's commissiort as the Minister of Transportation and Communications. Let them act. There are measures which can be taken 1~ithin the responsibility and the power of the government of this Province to do something. \ole have all sat in this House time and time again and knocked the CNR. Well and good, and they have become sort of the unpaid whipping boys of provincial politics.

Well, fine, and if we get our jollies by whipping the CNR, that is in itself enough. But it is not enough for the people of this Province, and it is not enough for me. I think hon. gentlemen opposite who hold · the Queen's commission, who are ministers of the c~~wn are being less than candid if they do not act. It is no good for them to talk. When the hon. p,entleman from Grand Falls (Mr. Lundrigan) was in 6pposition 3025

March 16, 1976 Tape no. 114 7 Page 3 - mw Mr. Roberts. in Ottawa, before he met his fate at the hands of the electorate. he talked and that is the job of the Opposition. He talked well. Indeed listening to him talk it is easy to see why ke lost his seat. Mr. Speaker, let him now act. That is the great difference between sitting in this House to the right of Mr. Speaker and sitting to the left of Mr. Speaker. He now sits with the government. He is now a member of the government. Let them act. He and his colleague from Bonavista South (Mr.

Morgan), Sir, have been two of the g~eat talkers of our history in politics, and we have all listened with interest to what they have said. Well now, Sir, they have the Queen's commission. They are ministers of the C~own. They are the honourable mister So-and-so. Let them use the power that they have got to act, and let us see if we can use the power of the government of this Province,and if necessary the power of this Legislature,to make the CNR to do those things which they ought to do and to cease doing those things which they ought not to do, because as it now~stands, Mr.

Speaker, it is obvious that most members feel that the CNR have not lived up to that high standard. I support the petition, but I say support is not enough, not coming from the ministry. We want action, Sir, not just words. SOME Hml. ~!EMBERS: Hear, hear! MR SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): Further petitions. The hon. Minister of Provincial Affairs and Environment. MR. MURPHY: Mr.

Speaker, I had not wanted to get into S·upporting this petition, but I feel in view of the remarks of the last speaker that, you knww, it is time to call a spade a spade . l~e have this petition, and I have been supporting these petitions against CNR for some seven years. when many of those vociferous ones today who are urging government to act were very, very quiet on this side of the House. MR. NOLAN: That was when you were lowering the beer prices. MR. MURPHY: ---- Very quiet.

Another gentleman butts in again 1a great speaker \Oets over there, ''We do this, we do that." Wli.en they were here they did nothing, aosolutely 3026

":1rch 16, 1976 TP.pe 114P B-1 >'T' • l'T'l'DITY: ns f11r <ts rn P<Js crmcrrncrl. "r. Speaker, T ~upport the petit1cm. T lo;1ve f'll:f ~ seven or ei pht years agn that •·•e •·•ere beinp. 1 e~ dm.m thp gnrc1en pr>th by !"N. T have JT>.~ny pictures cleaHng with rN, 1v1th the 1nst ri~e on the Bullet. T Hill brinp thE>~ here in the !louse :mrl see if •vf' can :lc1ent1fy nne of these great patriots on any of these pirt11res. T ~ness they ,.-:fght have heen hicl:lng in the rouncl­ house,l ike the fel J m·• 1/rn \••ent cra?.y there trying to find a c0rner.

Bnt hen' t<'da~· ~'e have s<>id, look 1 el: n~ tcod:l e tlds thin~ on a hnnpo] i.tir:1J basis, anr1 I thin)r that is the only "''Y 1t can be clone. "•nt the T e:H1cr of the OppnRi.rinn, :in h1s nvn in!;u] tinr, P~'Y• has to ret 11p <1nc' l•rinr ,1n1m t 11e level of the Cleb<Jte tr•at was takinp, P'.e~ce or tl•E' support fnr tl~js thin~. T'.nt I say this, ''r.

Spe .... ker, tl1at I Ill" vr>ry ,-uch, vcry mtlch in ap:reement P:l.th the petition cos presenter'. <1ririna1ly, fir, T mny arcl. that :!f one of us ••hen ,,,e ,,•ere in npp<:>siti<'n trierl to bring sornetr1ng JH·.e this :lntn the House W€ 1>'ere tr>1c1 to ] y-jnr it tO tiH• proper rJnce,•.;ohjcll t..>:IS the fer1er11l r,overmnent, not bere.

Tf you ••ant to FO bacJ.., ~i.r, through :mv <:>f' the minutes of this Tconse you t··:!ll fjnd that at no t:!l"e "'"!; there n pet:!Uon <leal ing vith ferieral matters al lo,,•er til he l1roup:ht int0 tl1i" nous<' <<n<' S<'r'eone c:orry on for an hour tryinr; to l'li.>Je pol :It :feR 011t of it :mr' sny whnt v.'0nc1erfu) people they nre. Tlut 1 ~tlpport the [>f't:lt:lon, because T al'l cons:lfltent as I ~•as seven or eirltt ve,.rs aro, Sir, and T feel that r.1-anc 1 I h<'ve s;d<' it 1"<1n~· tiMe" - still feel tlvtt rco. na~a hep.:l.ns at 1'alifax nnd em's in Jle<1r, he cor! !"'.

SP!'AJT" (1'-r>. rnr.J.IN n: /l.re there ;my further petitions? The hon. member for Burgeo-Jlay n 'Espoir. Yll. SUI}IONS: Hr. Speaker, I ha-ve a petition I would 1 :Ike to present to the HousE'. It is from 121 res:l.dents of P.ttrpeo. It relates to the 3027

~·arch 16, 1976 Tape 1148 IB-2 '"' S H'J-'0N~ : subject of the white paper on snowmobile reguJat1onS nhnut which we have heard very little J a tel y. I hope it is an omen. I hope we hear - ><r•. "0BF.'"''~'S : ~"' . ~Il-"'0NS : The Minister of Tourism is in Spain looking at snowmobiles. ~·Tell, 7'r. Speaker, if ••e have to wait For the minister to be present we could be a long time presenting the petition.

I Has saying we have hearcl pre cJ ous little about the regulations Jately,or the wh:!.te paper,and I hope that is an indice> .tion of wh~t is to come because insofar as these regulations are concerned the less we hear about them the better. That is the hun• en or the prayer of the petition which I have before me. In part the petitioners say, ~r. Speaker, "We would like vour to !l'<'!ke known to the House of Assembly our objection to one aspect of the p;overnment 's 1m:! te )?a per on the use of snowmob i J es in the Prov:l.nce.

Hhil e we 1moleheartedly agree "'ith safety rep;uJ at1.ons, restricted use in certain areas, age li~:lts and insur~nce we strongly disagree •~ :lth the :Idea of hav1 .np; to obtain a penrl.:!t every tire ~' e ,,,ant to travel two miles or more fro!'l a road or four 1!'5 les from the town. 11 The petitioners then ~o on to point out, ~'r. f:peaker, that by virtue of the fact that they clo not h?ve at th:!s present time a roacl connection to the Province's high"to•ay system, that they are very limitec in their forms 0f recreati.on, and that snol''l"ohiling is one of the fe~r forms of Hinter recreation.

They then, ""r. Speaker, say the folJowing,~ih:!ch I think is vorth quoting, "Who or Hhat is the governl!'ent trying tn protect? /l.re they tryinr; to protect us from ourselves? Are they trying: to protect the I''Hcllife? t,.)e clo not ~·ant a few poachers or a few odrballs Hho may c.hase w:!l<'J ife to cause snowmobiling to be restricted to the point of prohibition, We have ~arne warclens here who ean keep an eye out for these peopJe! 1 Then the rest of the petition again pursues the same general theme.

They say in part to"to•ards the end, "We are not har<>ssing wildlife or destroying the ecolory, just participating in a sport that is good, 3028

"nrcll I(, 1')71i Tare 11£ 1' clenn Fun nnd exe~cise .• "1'. ~PF.AXEr: (T'r . roll ins) Ortler, please ! Orcler , ple(l!le! Thp hon . !lous e J.encler . ·~ ... l'rl.LS : On petitions it is very clear thllt pet:i.tions nre pre sen tcrl :md 11 f P.t• Wl'lrcls MSV he Sill c' in support of them . • .,. t·TJ.J.C:: Yes. A few words although lately that rule - ~1L NOLA:::. tlhere •••ere yon in the last h11lf hour ? ~~ - NOLAN: You agreed with it . •-r.

"n:v:: -in recent •'nys . nut, "r. fpeAI·er, the pl"iot ir. that in the n;-turc of an nrrmne•nt on the suhjcct m'ltter of tl•e ~1hi te p:>pE>r ~1hich ill not really to the point. Oh , C'h ! Il'-J In other ""rr's whAt I 1:11'1 ~ily{nr to the point of orc!cr. , .. r. ~pcat·e r, -i ~ 1 f ~ pet 1 t1on ("'Ot''U!S in in tt-"Cl ve fool r.r:"f\ 1>nr~s, a rcti t !on tt' l>r1nr the rntte r to the nt ten : ion of the House - fl'1-<n~''": ,.., the point of order, •-c. ::pcalter - t 'PI'l'll'': f'h , oh ! '"" !:l'f.JII'T." (r r. rollins): The l-on . nel"her f'nr l'urpee>-'\:ty n'Espoir. Sit <'o•'TI, ' /In I·', sit <'<>vn boy.

Tn the point of nrrle r, "r. SreAl:.er. . T 11111 n<)t re~rljnr. all e1f the rct1t1on . T hnvc ~r~ t~at cleAr on a n~ber of occasi~rs . The rninistc r h:ts been ;ust looki n?, for on opportunity t<> jump OV<"T thcrc. ''e wouJd not jur>p on the last one because he a8reed with Hhat t,•as f,Oing On. ~'ow T hnve Sl" far, "r . !:peake r, 302 9

March 16, 1976 Tape 1149 PK - 1 MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, have taken far lees time than any speaker in the presentation of the previous petition. I have been trying to keep myself - PREMIER MOORES: Is that right? AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMONS: - short and to the point. And I reject and resent this harassment by the minister. I am very quickly trying to get to the point. AN HON . MEMBER: Mr. Speaker - MR. SIMMONS : I am stating from the prayer of the petition, Mr . Speaker. AN HON. MEl-mER: Hear, hear: MR. SIMMONS: And if the minister PREMIER MOORES : Oh: MR.

SIMMONS: - has got some sinister plan to do away with petitions in this House, that is one thing, let him say that. MR. ROBERTS: That is all they want. MR. SIMMONS: But otherwise let me do, let me have the privilege that other people have had in presenting petitions in this House MR. ROBERTS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMONS: - and present my petition. MR. ROBERTS: Justice and freedom. MR. SPEAKER: (Collins): Order, please. MR. SIMMONS : Oh,well: AN HON. MEMBER: Freedom for all. MR.

SPEAKER (Collins): Perhaps bon. members would permit me to read Standing Rule 92 which states "Every member offering a petition to the House shall confine himself to the statement of the parties from whom it comes, the number of signatures attached to it and the material allegations it contains. In no case shall such a member occupy more than five minutes in so doing, unless by permission of the House upon question put." 3030

March 16, 1976 Tape 1149 PK ~ 2 Mr.. Speaker (Dr. Collins): In my opinion the hon. member for Burgeo-Bay d'Espoir (Mr. Simmons) was within these rules, and I would ask him to continue with his petition. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. ROBERTS: MR. NOLAN: MR. SIMMONS: So he tr-iumphs. Down with the House Leader I Down with the House Leader. Thank you, Mr. - MR. SPEAKER (Dt. Collins): Order., please! MR.. NOLAN: Out in the landwash. MR. SIMMONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well as I was saying before I was - MR. ROBERTS: We will get you. MR.

SIMMONS: interrupted, one of the material allegations in the petition from the people of Burgeo relates to the overall aotives of the government for wanting to introduce the kind of regulations, or enforce or prescribe the kind of regulations that have been put forward in the white paper. They were saying, Mr. Speaker, that ''we were not harassing any wildlife or destroying the ecology, just participating in a sport that is good clean fun and exercise. We feel that we are a special case in Burgeo',' he says, ''No doubt there are other special cases throughout the Province.

We feel the issuing of a permit must be adjusted to suit the area in question. The cancellation of this part of the white paper would be ideal:' The petition, Mr. Speaker, is signed by 121 petitioners. I do not particularly look forward to seeing the white paper that was circulated, because I hope we never see that again. But where the minister here, and perhaps the acting Minister of Tourism could indicate when we might expect to have this aatter discussed, when we might expect to peruse the government's proposal for snowmobile regulations. I know that they sat on it for two, three or four years now, _Mr.

Speaker, and it will soon be Spring again. There is a fair amount of concern by the petitioners for safety and matters related thereto, and it is not enough for the government with white papers to 3031

March 16, 1976 Tape 1149 PK - 3 Mr. Siminons: get everyb,dy all worked up about the sub~ect but rather to take some initiatives, initiatives that need to be taken, Mr. Speaker, in the interest of safety of not only the snowmobile users but also other people throughout the Province. It is my pleasure to support the prayer of the petition and to request that it be feferred to the appropriate department. MR. SPEAKER (DR. COLLINS): The hon. member from the Bay of Islands. MR. L. WOODROW: Mr.

Speaker, speaking to that petition I would like to say first of al l that the snowmobile regulations apply in large measuEe to the district of the Bay of Islands. And I would like to say furthermore that I was so very pleased when the government did not send out regulations, that they sent out suggestive regulations. It shows how democratic - MR. SIMMONS: Very suggestive. MR. WOODROW: - this party is. They sent out a white paper and people misused it. They ill used it. In fact they are trying to make political hay out of it. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! SOME HON. MEMBER: Who, who, who? MR. WOODROW: Okay, fine.

Let me finish, please, first of all. A l'l RON. MEMBER: Shame! Shame! MR. WOODROW: I feel the government know that perhaps the white paper is not what it should be . In fact I can say now that there are possibly three things about it, there is a permit, the insurance and the helmet. These are the things, in fact, I am sure they will be modified when the government finally decides on that. MR. SIMMONS: Would the hon. member permit a question? Is the member the acting Minister of Tourism at the moment? SOME RON. MEMBERS : Oh, Oh': MR. WOODROW: No,I am not acting. But I - MR. SPEAKER (DR. COLLINS): Order, please!

MR. WOODROW: -was elected to this House of Assembly. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, to a point of order, please. 3032

March 16 , 1976 Tape 1149 PK - 4 ~tR. SPEAKER (COLLINS): Or der , please! MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, to a point of order. MR. SPEAKER (COLLINS): The bon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. ROBERTS: I am quite willing to listen to the bon. gentleman from the Bay of Islands. I find him - MR. WOODROW: You better listen to him. MR. SPEAKER: (COLLINS) : Order , please! MR. ROBERTS: I was going to say, Mr . Speaker, I find him amusing, but I do not always find him amusing, I find him insulting and impertinent on occasion. Mr. Speaker, the point of order is this, it bas been ruled from the 3033

March 16, 1976. MR. ROBERTS: Tape ilSO RH - 1 Chair on a number of occasions that under our rules no member may debate a petition. Well be that good or bad it is the rule and it must be followed. The hon. gentleman from Bay of Islands, Sir, whatever he is attempting to do,and assuming he is aware of what he is attempting to do, which would be both pleasant and novel, Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman is surely debating the petition.

If he is to be allowed to proceed with this then I would merely say that we on this side wish to enter into the discussion on precisely the same terms, Sir, and we are very anxious to do so. But I would ask Your Honour not to rule the hon. gentleman out of order. I would love to hear him speak. He is a marvellous speaker, Sir, and we listen to him with great entertainment and great amusement. AN HON. MEMBER: That is right. MR. ROBERTS: But I would say, Sir, that he should speak within the latitude allowed by the rules of debate of the House. MR. WELLS: Mr.

Speaker, the hon. member is simply doing what he has a right to do,and that is commenting on the petition. As long as he comments properly as he is doing he is allowed a maximum of five minutes to do that. I think, ~1r. Speaker, he should not be interfered •1ith. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): A point of order has been brought up as to the content of the hon. member's remarks. In my opinion he was within the rules concerning comment on petition. I would ask the· hon. r'ember to continue or conclude his remarks. SOME HON. ~!EMBERS : Hear, hear! .JfR. WOODROW: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I believe I had just about finished my remarks. But I was going to say I certainly am in favour of any petition that is reasonable. I do not think the government, I do not think that the members of this side of the House are going to go along with anything that is not in the interest of the Province and of the people of Newfoundland in general. SOME RON. NEMBERS: Hear, hear! 3034

}la:tch ln, 1976. Tape 1150 RH - 2 Sir, to that petition. \~e. the government welcome these petitions. The white paper was produced as a starting point for discussion. I think this is a point that has to be made. All representations from all over this Province will be given,and these petitions and representations of all kinds will be given every serious consideration and weigh in the decision making of the government which we hope and are confident will result in proper.and worthwhile regulations. t1R. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): Are there any further petitions? ~IR. NOLAN: l1r.

Speaker, I would like to comment on the petition ,if I may, and that is we support obviously the petition as presented by the han. member. He question some of the comments that have been made insofar as - you know,how you make hay out of a snowmobile and nonsense like that. There are a number of things in the snowmobile - and I offer this, by the way, as really and not as any kind of a partisan political statement - that it is going to, in my opinion, arouse as it has already, considerable discussion before any legislation is brought in. One is the situation that regards this permit business.

You are going to get so many very different opinions from so many parts of the Province. For example, the regulations you have to deal with in the municipality of St. John's are not going to wash in, say, the district of Naskaupi -no way! - or in my bon. friend's district. It is just as well for us to make up our minds. There may be one common denominator such as, for example, are you going to let a five year old child or permit a five year old child drive a thirty-five horsepower snowmobile. If you do that we are all quite mad. l!R. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

I would bring to the attention of the hon. member that asking rhetorical questions is getting close to the matter of debate. I would ask him to be careful on this point. HR. NOLAN: Thank you, lfr. Speaker. The other matter is one that refers to the permit system. You will find that most people who have snowmobiles, it is absolutely useless to them if they have to get a permit to go, say, a mile or two miles off the road. You are also going to find, may I suggest, a tremendous amount of opposition to even the insurance

part 1 because a lot 3035

~larch 16, 1976. l tR. NOLl\N : Tape 1150 Rll - 3 of people look upon this ns a sort of a possi bil i ty for another great rip-off for the insuranc e companies . I suggest to the government 'With great res pect that this is probably going to come about . Now the r e is another point that I would like t o mention in re fe renc e to snowmobiles , and I would ask very seriously , even if the minister responsible is not present , if I could have this one remark that could be considered, I would hope a word of advice.

That is since there is such a broad diversification of opinion on the snowmobile regulations that the government would hope to bring in, I am wondering if the government poss ibly \~ould consider having a good look at the tmJnicil>al ities. Why should the government , for example, design a programme for snowmobile s within the municipality of St . John 's? Why not l et them exercise some of their autho r ity , perhaps in conj unct ion with the nepartment of Highways or whoever, 30 36

Tape ~!o. 1151 N~ ' - 1 """ 'l"ILAN: let the munici.pali ties get involved there 11 suggest to the hon. the Prenier. Let us concern ourselves primarily •d tit that area outside the municipality. Sure, vJe all agreed tve '·n:mt to protect the t>ildlife and so on, vho does not? But I do sur,gest to you that if you bring in a sort of a carte blanche programme you could get into some real trouble ~~ith regulations of thi's l:ind unless you are ver y , very careful. ''1'. ROBE~TS: I think that 'Graham' wants to say a "'ord or two on this ~~ildlife business the '!'remier wants to protect. 1 ~. SPEAKER (nr ..

CnT.Ll:NS): nrder, please! Are there further comments in support of tbe petition? The hon. member for Windsor-Buchans. ~., FLIG!IT: f<r. Speaker, I rise to support briefly the prayer of the petition, ><r. Speaker, and in supporting this I would innicate that I 1·•i1 1 of course h~ presenting petitions of my o1<rn. "r. <; peaker, the wh ite paper presented,as we have r::eP-n :lt 1 is pro hahly thP. most restrictive ~nd repressive recommendation that nnt> can conceive of. The :Insurance ~orill be nothing but ~ rip-off 1 as the hon. member from Conception. Ray South (Hr. Nolan) !'laid. T, j nbility insurance, ~1r.

Spe aker, I al"\ aware of people v7ith hundreds of thousanrls of dollars 1.rorth of B .ability insurance in this Province knocking dm·"'11 indivirlu11ls, doing all kinds of da!'lages that it took a sMart lm~rer not to co!'lt the man vrho had the insurance one penny. I cannot conceive of an accident bvent y -five miles in the bush 1vhere some ltab:U:!.tv innurnnce adjuster ••ill come in and determine 1vho indeed vras at fault so the insurance company T,;r:tl] p!'ly up. It is nothing short, ~~r.

Speaker, anrt can be nothing short of an. openin r- for the 1nsur:mcr> col"pany tn rf't ~1,.,rfouncllanders by the short hairs again ~ncl :l.t dll nn]y benefit 1>TP-1·rfoundlanders, it 1>ril1 not indeed - Bncl furtt) ennore, "r. Speaker , if we are. t'flinl>'.inr, in te.rms of dert, thP f:1ct is,~n~ · tt)re r.ow~rnl'lent has p,ot the st~ttist1.cs avnilahle to the"l, of any cle<t'hs th nt has heen causen in th i s 'Prov1nce ~ts I' r.Psult of s1·'1-doos, T1inPty per cent of them have been by the sk i-de<" operator. neople arc killing themselves on ski-doos, Pr. Spea! ·:er, and no liability 3037

:'arch H, l971'i Tape No. 1151 m: - 2 !:!' .. ~ insurance covers anybody who kills themscl ves. !Ie had better have a life insurance policy. !'r. Speaker, Newfoundlanders in general do not aspire to great things, They do not aspire to months in the sun, They work their eight or nine hours a day. eleven months a yeartand they have got the few very simple pleasures, a few days fishing, and now since sld-clooing has been made availahle to them, a fevc weel,ends ski-dooing and ndl·l this government, ! ~r. Speaker, is about to deny them that basic pleasure. The white paper, lfr.

Speaker, supposedly is to protect our vildlife. ~'R. SP~A __ KE~(DR. COLLINS): Order, please! Order, please! The point has been brought up only a short while ago in regard to debate concernin~ petitions,and I feel the hon. member is getting into this area now, commenting on the white paper as opposed to the points brought up in the petition itfelf. •'!' .• FLIGHT: Very good, 'Mr. Speaker, I thank you for your ruling.

One of the points brought up I think in the petition was that the purpose the people who presented the petition indicated that they are concerned with the protection of our wildlife and I would suppose that- I cannot see how this can be considered debate - I would suppose that the prime purpose of the white paper, or any legislation that comes from th.is House to control ski-doos is to protect our wildlife. If it is not 1 then God help us, what is it for? So I would think that the purpoce of the whole debate will be to protect our wildlife and the people operating ski-doos. 11r.

Speaker, we do not need ski-doo white papers to protect our wildlife. All we need are some wildlife people appointed to patrol the areas where wildlife can indeed be harrassed or poaching perpetrated by people who have got no more concern for our wildlife than the poachers, thE.n the people in the Province who are indeed poaching and this is where the problem lies, Hr. Speaker. 3038

. ''arch l f., 1 n7r, Tape No. 1151 N!''- 3 I'll. FLIGilT: And my last comment, ur. Speaker, is simply this, that this white paper is proof, if any be needed, of the perils to Newfoundlanders of having such sensitive leRislation put under the control of such an insensitive minister. t!R. Sl.'EAKER (DR. COLLI'NS): Order, please! Purther petitions . The hon. member for Burin-Placentia qcst . ~'P . CANNINr.: tlr . Speaker, I rise to present this petition from the people in the district I represent and other districts from Fortune and Crand Rank to Logy Bay and Cashin Avenue. It is quite a wide ;trea , l'r .

Speaker, hut a couple of thousand names and 1 flteswne the! re11resent <~hout 2o,nno, 3",000, perhaps 40,000 people and the prayer of the petiti.o.,, "r. Speaker, is 3039

"'r.1rcl1 lF, l'J76 Tape 1152 IB-1 _l'T'. C/l!~'!tNC:: that n0 furtl-ter increaRe in

e) ectrid ty he marle,espedalJ y the 40 per cent "•h:lct- they claim "rHl bring the cost to 100 per cent w:l thin the ye:>.r. !'r. Speaker, I ta.ke great pl eaRure :In presenting th:l s petition. I ask that it be laid on the table of the House and referre<l to the <"epartl"ent concerned. t'P. Sl'f:AKET> : ftre there further pet:ltinrrs? The han. Leacler of th' npposH~on. f'r. Speaker, J have three petitions hen~ vh~ch relate to the snne subject, the subject of eJ ectri d ty rBtes.

If it is in order under the ruJ es of the Rouse - and I r'n not rea) 1 y care •vhether I have the leave of the !louse Leader or not - but if H :Is in order uncler the rules o" the Honse I would l~ke to present t~el'l, Sir. The f:lrst one comes fro!'! \~est ~t. ''celeste on the Lahraclor side of the StraitR 6f ~elle Isle in the clistr:lr.t wh:lch I represent, anc:l I have not had an opportun:l ty to count up the s:lgnatm:es but I would thtnl<-, 1'r. Speaker, there are fifty or sixty or seventv c:lt:lzens of that co~nity who have s:lgned that pet:lt:lon.

It has been sent to me by Yr. t'atthew Pike '"ho is the r.hairman of the community council at •rest St. ~·orleRte nne! also princ:fp11l of the school, the Poman Catholic High School "l.n vlest St. "ocle.;te. The second petition, Sir, :l.s frow St. Lunnire l't r.Y.iquet to the ~orth of St. Anthonv :In the cljstrict of the Str~1ts of Belle Isle. It h~s been sent to me by the l"'ha1 Tl'l~n of the cnl'1ll'nn :1 ty counc:IJ of St. Lunaire-Cd.quet, "r. ~yt1ney Hitcher.

His Jetter,which is ac1clresserl to me of course, says, "Enclosed you will find a list of pet :lti oners ~>ho are aga:lnst the high cost of electricity." It goes on, "Just to give you an idea concerning the cost; St. Lunaire pump house bill for Janun-ry was $1119.?.0. Is th~s not r:lrliculous just for fifty families? I do hope that you c:on have sorneth:lng done Rbout the high cost." He signs it in ~ ve:ln t·•h:lch would ind:lcate that he st111 looks ~lith favour upon a certa:ln polit:l.cal party. Then fin:oJJy, l'r. Speaker, there is a petition here s:l!ffiecl 3040

'!'ape 1152 Ill-2 hy appr0Jdl"atelv 1.51') people :In the T'.;m:fe1 's T'.;,rhour ;1re~ 5n the. const:ftt•c.nc.y of ft. Tiarhe representerl by the 1':1n:lster of ~·nnpo"to•er 'ln<l Jn<'nstr:ia] T>p]ations. The prayer of a]l three peti.tton~, ''r. Spe;,ker, :Is essent:laJly the s<1me, that is protest:lnr. P~ga:fnst tl1e. j?overnl"ent 1 fl pJnns to increase the rate of eJectricitv fnr the pr:l.ces rhat the p,oveml'\ent owned Hydro rorporat:lon, tl•e. ~·•1101esa]er charres fe-r the price of f'lectri.c:lty. '~'he. Jl'at tPr has yet to he debated in the House, ''r.

Speaker, C1tit H has been extensively cl:lscussecl and cmmnentecl upon in a serjp~ of petjtions over these J<1st three or four or f:lve s:lttinr ~ays. Jnc1eed T clo not th1.nk there ha.s been a r1ay that there has not been a nnMller c-f petitions ahout thjs. T 1"1ght arlr1 I stiJl hnve 11 l11r['e stad· in l"Y off. :Ice and !'\ore co!'le :In every morn1nr.. 1\very nail br:lnrs !"e-re petitions on th:ls sa.me snb.iect. T th:l.nk 1'\0st 0f the p0int", f;i_r, hnve been ~·re11 rehearser And wel J l'laC'e.

Let ~re conf~ne !'1ysel f to saying ar,a:ln that T th:lnk the people ~.rho have signee'! these pPti t:l nnR represent the grente»t cmtponrin!': of puJ-.1 ic. jnrl:fp,nnti0n thnt T have seen in my years of puh]ic l:lfe,as l:fl'l:ltecl as they l""Y he. T fP-el thnt the government's act:!on :'IS annc-uncer' by the "in:lster of ~'ines l'!nrl Energy in a statement tc- the Tlouse Jast J'd<"ay does not l'leet the point of these petitioners.

I wc-u1n say to the government that unt]l and unless they sho'J some understandinr, and some concern and some. syt"pathet:ic action tm-,ards the people v.•ho have s:lp,necl tl1ese p~t1.tions,they v•:IJ] c.ontinue to have a vast amount of r'l:l.ff:lculty in conv:inc1nr. pec-pl e thrcmghout the Province of the f1>rt th;o~t ~,·e nee<" ,in the pove.rnment 1 s v:ie'''' electr:! c.-! ty rate Increases. 'le !'1ay nee<" them, f:1r, or we 1'lav not, hut an I »haJJ say; ~ir, 1~ that the r,overnl'1ent have nnt !'lade 11. case thE>t T·7e <"o. '~'l1ey h11.ve said tlmt Pe <"o hut, Sir, say:lnp: sol'\ething cloes not m11ke it <;o.

I <•oulc" say a~ea1n to the government 1.n speaking in support nf this petHion that untn :mel unJ ess they can present lln<1 clocul'1ent 3041

'arch 6. 1976 "11'. . PODF'l'T!' : Tape ll52 and suhstantiate anc\ ll'='l:lnta;ln under ex=ination, uncle-,; scnttiny a TB-3 ease in favou r of rate increas es, !'ir, untH and unless they c!o th='lt the people of th:fs Province are not happ:IJy go:lnr; to pay ~ny greater pot;er bills . I could go on at lenp.th . When the appropriate woment corres I intencl to. But I shall pr esent these petitions , ~·r. ~peakPr , with the request that the y be x-eferrecl to the dep<>rtment to ·~h:i.cl' they relate .

I also present thel'l, Sir , in the hope that the government finally 1~ill l • .:ed them . l>lhether the gove rnmen t heed them or not, ~ir, I have 1nore to present,as clo st'm'e of my co l leagues . l·le shall present them in the clays to col!!!! "'ith or 1 H hout the le11ve of the fnvernment TIC'IIlSe l.eRrler, Sir. A )!'log as the rnles of the llouse permit petitions to be presented, !'ir, ~·e shall p.-esent them. Thank you. AN HON . ?'P." B · Rear, hear ~ MR. SPEAKER (Dr. rollins): Are there any other petit :I ons? PPJ!SENTINC PEPOl>TS C'F S!J'.Nnn C AND SELECT C'l'l' 'lT'rE E::: : 1'. SPE.AKF.P..: The hon.

Rouse Leader. >'r. :::peaker, present fer tablin g in th)s .ouse the annual report of the "epartment: of ehabUita t ion and l'e creat i on for the year endinr ~rch 31, 1975. There are copies available for members i.n the Spe='lker.'s office. 't!.. SPEAJ"-EJ' r. Collins): The hon. 'inister of Ju..'<tice . rm, RICla'!/IN: 'r. Spe.aker, table the regulations of the Legal Aiel - I "r:!Jl p;ive you the proper title - 3042

March 16, 1976 Tape no. 1153 Pa ge 1 - IIIW Mr. Hickman. the Legal Aid Regulations "11976 as gazetted in the March 12, 1976 publication of The Newfoundland Gazette. NOTICES OF MOTION: ~'R. !!I C!':MAN: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to intuoduce the following bills, a bill1 "An Act 'Eo Amend The Hills Act," (Bill No. 25). A bill, "An Act To Enable Extra-Provincial Custody Orders To Be Enforced In The Province Of Newfoundland," (Bill No. 26). A bill, "An Act To Amend The Women's Patriotic Trust Fund," (Bill No. 2§). ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS FOR WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN: MR.

SPENCER (Dr. Collins): The hon. House Leader. MR. 11ELLS: Mr. Speaker, this is in response to a question asked on December 17 by the member for Burin- Placentia West (Mr. Canning). It refers to the Marystown arena. The Department of Recreation and Rehabilitation approved a grant of $300,000 under the Recreation Capital Grand Programme to assist with the construction of an arena in Harystown. The department bas already forwarded $120,000 of this amount with the remaining $180,000 to be paid in three equal annual installments over the next three years.

The town of Marystown has received a government guaranteed loan from the bank in the amount of $200,000. The conditions of the loan are that the guaranteed loan matched funds that the municipality raised in the amount of $200,000• And the loan is given , of course, by the bank with a government guarantee ~ is repaid over a three year period by the Newfoundland Municipal Financing Corporation,after which the Financing Corporation pays the $200,000 or at least the Department of Municipal Affairs repays the $200,000 to the corporation over a period not exceeding twenty years. MR. SPE~~ER (Dr.

Collins): The hoa, Minister of Education. MR. HOUSE: Question No.727 on the Order Paper was asked by the member for LaPoiJe and he was asking the name of the Director of the Provincial High School Drama Festival That was last ve~r. Tt was Dudley Cox who was a member of the theatre group here, and he was hired on a contractual basis or six months, $6,000,and that included, of course, his travel and all 3043

March 16, 1976 Tape no. 1153 Page 2 Mr. House. •he expenses that go with it. He was under the direction of Mr. Pat Treacher of the Department of Education. MR. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): The hon. Hinister of Transportation and Communications. MR. MORGAN: Yes, in reply to a question, an oral question asked last Tuesday's sitting by the hon. gentleman from Con~eption Bay South (Mr. Nolan) with regards ~o the status of the road from the Trans-Canada Hi~hway to the Manuels Bridge or the connection to Conception Bay South. The situation on that is that to date the right-of-way has been acquired by government.

The right-of-way has also been cleared, and the engineering design and survey work has been carried out and completed and government recognizes the need for this road, but only after the completion of the Harbour Arterial Road. It will then be practically a necessity. So the situation is now that we will be requesting financial assistance under the DREE programme for highways in the Province to have that road constructed as an access road to Conception Bay South after the completion of the Harbour Arterial Road • . ORAL QUESTIONS: MR. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): The hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to ask the hon. the Premier if he would outline to the House any plans that his government have to try and cope with the record unemployment in this Province at the present time as revealed today by Stastics Canada? MR. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): The hon. Premier. PREMIER MOORES: Obviously, Mr. Speaker, as time goes on in this House that will be done. MR. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): The bon. Leader of the Opposition. MR.

ROBERTS: On behalf of the Minister of Mines and Energy, may I direct a question to the Premier? lvill the Premier take the appropriate ~~~ion to ensure that the Churchill Falls · 3044

~!arch 16, 1976. HR . ROBERTS: Tape 1154 R'R - 1 Labrador Corporation,which is two-thirds owned by the government of this Provirice,offers the employees in its bargaining unit at Churchill Falls a wage offer at least equal to that which is earned by employees in doing similar work for the electric utilities here on the Island? I should say, Mr. Speaker, the·Premier,I have no doubt,is aware of this. The offer that has presently been made by the company to their striking employees is substantially less than the amount which has been agreed to by the New­ foundland Light and Power Company here on the Island.

There can be no possible justification for it. PREMIER MOORES: Mr. Speaker, we are concerned about the situation in Churchill Falls as is obvious by what the Minister of ~anpower and Industrial Relations had to say today. However it is not our habit of interfering~with gov~rnment interference.in Crown corporations as such. I think it would be wronp,. I think if there are mistakes made there are other ways to correct it. Certainly unlike what the hon. Leader of the Opposition may have heen used to,we do not interfere with Crown corporations.

Rather we hope that they are capable of carrying on in a l>Orthwhile manner of their own. MR. ROBERTS: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): A supplementary HR. ROBERTS: I do not intend to engage in cheap shots with the Premier, but I will direct a question on the same subject to the }!inister of Manpower and Industrial Relations. Has the minister been informed,and if so can he tell the House,why the CFLCo have not accepted the report, the majority report filed by the conciliation board under the chairmanship of Hr. Gordon Easton with respect to the dispute at Churchill Falls? MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Manpower and Industrial Relations. MR. E. HAYNARD: Nr. Speaker, I have been informed by the corporation reasons for- let me reword it. I have been informed by the corporation, as they are required to do under the act,the sections of the conciliation hoard report that they do not accept. The Churchill Falls Corporation or 3045

Harch 16, 1976. HR. HAYNARD: Tape 1154 RH - 2 any other corporation are not required by law to give me the reasons for not accepting certain recommendations. I do not have any right to demand it and I have not demanded it. My job is to work on the conciliation end of it and try to provide conciliation services. TI1e reasons for are known to the corporation and I assume that they have valid reasons for making their ded sion. MR. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): The hon. member for Conception Bay South. MR. J • NOLAN : Mr.

Speaker, a question for the hon. the Premier in reference to a statement given earlier this afternoon concerning the HacDuff rink and their win. Since the team are to go to !luluth, ~\innesota to represeDt this Province and in fact all of Canada,would the government of the Province or the Department of Tourism plan anything special in the way of perhaps some experditure, would not only ballyhoo the [)resence of the team there but also the fact that we mi~ht very well get some well deserved, hopefully,publicity and notoriety from their presence. I wonder if the Premier has given any comment to that and if so - HR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. P~EHIF.R MQORES: Hr. Speaker, there are two aspects to that question, both of which I think are significant. This is a Canadian championship that all Canadians through their curling association will be paying for the expenses of the team that represents Canada. There is no parocialism, Sir, in it. It is just a fact. Now what we can do as a Provj_ncial Government to assist in any facilities we can to help them in any ~•ay at Duluth,whether it is hy members of their family or what have you, certainly we are only going to be too willing to do it.

As far as honouring the team itself is concerned, Mr. Speaker, I think it would be inappropriate between now and Thursday, and I understand they leave on Thursday,to make any announcements or arrangements because I guess they are practicing pretty hard for this world tournament. But certainly, Sir, as soon as they come home from the world tou.rnament I would strongly recommend that it would be a unanimous gesture of this House,and certainly will be proposed by the government that 3046

Harch lf>, 1976. PREHIER !·'fOORES: Tape 1154 these people be honoured in an appropriate manner. HR. NEArtY: Hr. Speaker, - HR. SPEAKER: A supplementary? RH - 3 MR. NEARY: No, Sir, I have a question for the Minister of Social Services . 3047

March 16, 1976 Tape 1155 PK - 1 MR. SP~R (DR. COLLINS): I recognize the hon. Member for Bay of Islands. MR.L. WOODROW: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Premier. Since 1969 when Bowaters AN RON. MEMBER: Can he do that? MR. WOODROW: I beg your pardon? SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. WOODROW: I have to preface the question, Mr. Speaker, am I allowed to do it? MR . ROBERTS : No, but go ahead anyway. MR. WOODROW: Okay. In 1969 when Bowaters said the mill was for sale a cloud hung over Corner Brook and spread throughout the Bay of Islands as far East as beer Lake. MR. ROBERTS: As far West as Crow Head. MR.

WOODROW: Now that cloud has lifted as Bowaters, to quote the Premier, is not for sale. And I would like to ask the Premier if he would tell the House in detail about the great expansion to Bowaters which was announced by Mr. Joyce - SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. ~.ODROW: - President of the North America Corporation of Bowaters, and himself on Monday, March 9. AN BON . MEMBER: That is a tough one! MR •. WOODRflW: March 8, I am sorry. AN RON . !EMBER: Can you handle it? PREMIER MOORES: Hardly. AN HON. MEMBER: Give it to your friends, 'Frank'. PREMIER MOORES: Mr.

Speaker, it would be impossible at this time to speak in detail on that particular announcement. What I can say is what has really been said, I suppose, already, is that Bowaters has taken the position that the mill is not for sale. Now that is obviously a generalization of the quote, because !: think Bowaters had some uncertainties regarding the Corner Brook mill for several years, 3048

March 16, 1976 Tape 1155 PK - 2 Premier Moores: maybe as long as six or seven years. There was always a very grea:t degree of uncertainty in Corner Brook, particularly in the Corner Brook area, but that great Bowaters Corporation affects the lives of a lot of people in this Province over a great many parts of the Province. They have come out and reaffirmed, if you like, their faith in their West Coast operation. They have said that they are expending considerable sums of money for new equipment and the up-to-date maintenance of present equipment.

They have said equally that it is their intention to carry on in this vein. New ships, which have been specially designed for the Bay of Islands ice conditions, are now being chartered over a long term period. All in all I think it was a~ I say, a statement of the reaffirmation of faith they have in the West Coast operation. I think its major purpose was that there is a fair amount of development and money that will be expended.

I think the major impact of what they had to say, Sir, was the fact that it took the uncertainty that had surrounded that operation for a considerable period of time out of the way,where people now can have some security about that particular and very important industry on the West Coast. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (DR. COLLINS): The hon. member from LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Sir, I want to find out about the gasoline situation in Nain, in Northern Labrador. Could the Minister of Social Services tell us what exactly the situation is there, and what is being done about it getting badly needed gasoline?

I presume it is the Minister of Social Services - no,the Minister of Rehabilitation and Recreation. Could the minister tell us what is being done about that situation? MR. WELLS(Acting Minister of Social Services): Yes, Mr. Speaker, It has come to the attention of the department, although oddly enough there has been no formal request,or informal for that matter,from anyone in Nain to the department. Yet nonetheless the department is aware of of it. Gasoline and oil, fuel oil,is supplied to the community of Nain by Woodford's Oil in-or Woodward's Oil rather in Happy Valley - 3049

March 16, 1976 Tape 1155 PK - 3 Mr. Wells: Goose Bay. PREMIER MOORES: Who? MR. WELLS: Woodward, Mel Woodward. PREMIER MOORES: Mel, okay. MR. WELLS: We understand that the consumption of gasoline and oil in the community this year has been half as much a~ain as in previous years. MR. NEARY: Could we not foresee that? MR. WELLS: No, apparently not. AN RON. MEMBER: Why? MR. WE.LLS: Apparently not. I do not know. MR. ROBERTS: Because of consumption - MR. WELLS: Consumption is up by half as much again. MR. ROBERTS: Has it been a hard Winter? MR. WELLS: It could be, I just do not know.

But' at any rate that is the word that comes from there. And at any rate Woodward's is trying to arrange now for the delivery of oil, and they are dealing with Woodward's in the matter. We understand, of course, the only way that oil can be got in there or gasoline would be to fly it in, which would cost something like,! am told,$100 a barrel. Now at any rate it may well be that the Department of R and R will .have to get involved in this, and if so we will keep the House informed as to what is happening. But we have had no request as yet to become involved, although we are watching the situation. MR.

ROBERTS: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (DR. COLLINS): The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. ROBERTS: A supplementary with respect to the question about the oil supply at Nain. Could the minister tell us whether he has indication that there is any emergency shortage,or any shortage amountin2 to emergency situation, a shortage of gasoline at Nain? And if the answer to that question is, no, and I think it is, but I ask the minister so he can state clearly, could the minister tell us whether he can make arrangements to have one of his officials visit Nain in the immediate 3050

March 16, 1976 Tape 1155 PK - 4 Mr. Roberts: future to see just what the situation is , to take an inventory of what oil and gas products are there, to take an estimate of what will be needed so we will know what we are up against? Because tt will be late June or July before any oil or gaa is moved into Nain by sea , and that is half of March, and all of April, and all of May, and presumably .all of June, at least three and a half months, Sir. AN RON. ~IEMBE'R: Could the member for Eagle River ask the questions about his own district? 305 1

March 16, 1976 Tape no. 1156 Page 1 - mw Mr. Roberts. ~he member is in Scotland on an official mission. MR. MURPHY: Is he representing Scotland or Labrador? SOME !!ON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. ROBERTS The member is in Scotland. MR. NEARY: He is lowering the beer prices in Scotland. MR. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): The hon. House Leader. MR. \,TELLS: Mr • Speaker, in reply to the question , the officials have been asked to be completely on top of the situation which they will be, and if - MR.R6DERTS: 'Ank' should go back to his pension. MR.

WELLS: -if government action is necessary, of course, it will be taken and taken quickly. MR. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): The hon. member for Windsor- Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, this question is to the Minister of Education. Is the hon. minister ir a position to either confirm or deny that Memorial University is considering or indeed intends to cancel its summer semester in 1977 in order to use its residential or other facilities for the Summer Games? MR. SPEM<ER (Dr. Collins): The hon. Minister of Education. m. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, I have not heard of anything of that nature.

It has not been brought to my attention at any time, and I believe if it were the case somebody would have notified one division of my department. I have not heard it. MR. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): The hon. member for Conception Bay South. MR. NOLAN: Mr. Speaker, a question for the hon. Hoilse Leader, the member for Kilbride (Mr. Wells). We understand that the member attended meetings recently where homes have been flooded in the Kilbride area. Residents there are looking for some guarantees, retribution, because of the fantastic damage there.

Is the minister in a position to give the House a report at this time on what, if anything, the com~any or companies involved are prepared to do to protect these people? 3052

March 16, 1976 Tape no. 1156 Page 2 - mw MR. \YELLS: I would glady do so, although, Mr. Speaker, I do not know if it is in order, because I am acting in my capacity as member, of course, in talking, but I will gladly do it if the House wishes , and that is that every time there is a serious rain fall, there is substantial damage done. We held a meeting in Kilbride in which the people of Greenview Acres were present and also the contractors of Nuport Construction.

I was there, and I think representatives of the Metropolitan Area Board, A course of action was agreed upon whereby each resident was to detail the shortcomings or complaints in respect of his house, the damage done, forwarded to me, I would in turn use the facilities here in the building to copy these letters, send the originals to Nuport, copies to Central Mortgage which were involved, copies to the Metropolitan Area Board.

Nuport, upon receipt of the letter, and they received them perhaps a week or more ago now, but they were going to work through all of them and write the individuals concerned with a copy to me indicating the matters that they themselves would look after and correct • Matters that they did not intend, or do not intend to correct, I ~.rill endeavour to find legal assistance for these people so that they can pursue the matter of whether or not they would have a case in court on the remainder. MR. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): The hen. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, the Premier, Sir, just back from a conference in Quebec proudly displaying his !leur-de-lis; would the Premier tell us if he was quoted accurately when he made the statement that he thought that the Government of Canada should pay for the deficit in the Olympics in Quebec? And why would the Premier be motivated into making such a statement? What benefits are going to accrue to Newfoundland? MR. SPEM<ER (Dr. Collins): The hon. Premier. PREMIER MOOrES: Mr. Speaker, I will glady answer it, First of all, it is not a government issue in this Province.

We have never been asked to take a stand nor will I expect that we will be. However, we were 3053

March 16, 1976 Tape no. 1156 Page 3 - mw Premier Moores. talking about the constitution. During the course of that I was asked about bow did I feel about bhe Olympics? It is very simple, Sir, and it was a personal opinion • I feel very strongly that any event in Canada that is of national significance should have the support and the encouragement of all Canadians. I did not say that the federal government should foot the bill. I did not suggest that anyone should foot the bill. I said that Canadians should put aside parochialism ,I think that Canadians should put aside regionalism.

I think the people in Canada srould put aside anti-Ftench or anti-English feelings. I think what we are talking about is a national event, which Canada will take credit for, which Canada will get credit far,and not condemn somebody because of what has happened in the past, whether it is the Province of Quebec or the city of ?1ontreal or whoever. Anything that may have happened in the project to date is a fact, and it is over,unfortunately,in escalated cost.

But certainly, Sir, I think all Canadians, as we took credit for the curling championship of all Canada, as we take credit for Newfoundland representing Canada in. the world tournament, I think we should also take credit in Canada hosting the world in the Olympic Games. MR. SPEAKER: The han. member for LaPoile. MR. NE~~Y: A supplementary question, Sir , to the han. Premier. Does the han.

Premier - do I interpret his answer to mean that he was misquoted and if so, if the Premier does mean that "l!lte Government of Canada or the people of Canada should pay for the deficits in the Olympic Games , does the Premier l!IE'an, with no strings attached, should there be any strings attached to any - Any position I took, 3054

Narch 16, 1976. Tape 1157 RH - 1 PREliif,R J!OOPJ:S : Mr. Speaker, there are no strings attached. It was a personal opinion and I feel very strongly about it as a Canadian. I woulrl ask that other people put aside parocialism and feel the same way. ~. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): The hon. member for Lewisporte. MR. 1'. WHITE: Hr. Speaker, I have a question for the Hinister of Health.

Would the minister please give the House a report on conditions at the Central Newfoundland Hospital in Grand Falls which caused a public relations officer there, Walter Arnold, to suggest over the weekend that a great deal of outside space was being rented and this was causing a morale problem on behalf of the staff who feel generally that they are being overworked? HON. R. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, that question could probahly better be addressed to the administrator of the hospital in Grand Falls. I did hear a statement which was made by the public relations officer who is employed hy the hospital.

We all have heard in the past that there was evidently a need for additional space up there but because of restraints we cannot do anything about it. I am not sure that it is as serious as is said. Rut the question should be addressed to the administrator. NR. SPEAKER: f1R. WHITE: A supplementary? The hon. the member for Lewisporte. Hr. Speaker, would the minister undertake to check with the administrator himself. I mean,he is the Minister of Health. Can he check with the administrator to see if the situation is as serious as they say it is? SOliE HON • MEMBERS: Hear, hear! }m. SPEAKER (Dr.

Collins): The hon. member for Windsor-Buchans. HR. G. FLIGHT: Hr. Speaker, this question is for the Hinister of Transportation and Communications. Is the minister now in a position as a result of his recent talks to transportation officials to make any observations as to the reopening of the Trans-Canada Highway West of Windsor? ~m. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Transportation and Communications. HON. J. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, as I indicated when the question was asked last week that this work 1vill be carried out as soon as 1veather conditions 3055

March 16, 1976. MR. HORGAN: Tape 1157 permit and the construction season commences this year. MR. SPEAKER: The member for Conception Bay South. RH - 2 MR. J. NOI.AN: l!r. Speaker, a question for the 11inister of Fisheries. The minister announced last week the conclusion of negotiations concerning the fish plant at \farystown. 1s the minister in a position to table any agreements that were reached with those concerned, any amounts of money involved and so on? It is for the information of the !louse. IlON . W. CAR-TER : ){r. Speaker, the agreement is now being worked on by lawyers.

We will be making public the details of the sale later on, probably two or three weeks time. HR. ~lOLAN: Thank you. MR. SPEAKER (Dr. Collins): The hon. member for LaPoile. lffi. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, would the Minister of Health tell the House whether or not his department is involved in any of these cases of leukemia that are sent to Tijuana in lfexico or National City in California~or does the minister have any statement or any observations to make in connection with these cases being referred to Tiajuana or to National City? Does the minister have any policy on - MR. SPEAKER: The hon. ~!inister of Health. HON.

H. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I think if the hon. member would think back for a little while he will realize that. the Medical Association,! believe,made a statement concerning this some time ago about the merits or otherHise of sending people to that part of the ~mrld for treatment. MR. NEARY: How long - HR. COLLINS: But the whole exercise, }~r. Speaker, has been undertaken by some friends of the various families and the department has not been involved at all. MR.

NEARY: - does the planning continue, and is there consultation, or any consultation of any kind with any offici .als in the minister's department hefore these collections are taken and these patients are referred to Tijuana or National City. Is the minister's department 3056

~larch 16, 1976. MR. NEARY: Tape 1157 RH - 3 involved in any way, shape or form? Does the minister have any advice or any observations to make on this matter? HR. COLLINS : HR . SPP.AKER: HR . ROBF.RTS: To my knowlenge, Mr. Speaker , we have not been involved. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. )lr. Speaker, a question to the Government Rouse Leader.

In view of the fact that the Supreme Court have ruled on the petition in respect of Come By Chance - I understand an appeal was suooosed to have been entered this morning in the court of appeal,but I do not know whether one has been entered or not - but irrespective of that fact the Chief Justice of the Trial Division, Mr. Justice Mifflin , has ruled and bas found the petition to have been well- founded, can the minister tell us when the House will be permitted now to debate this entire Come By Chance situation? ~IlL SPEAKER: The hon . Rouse Leader. HR . WELLS: As the hon . gentleman says the case 305 7

March 16, 1976 Tape 1158 PK - 1 Mr. Wells: was decided on Friday, Yesterday, of course, was a holiday . I had intended to approach the Opposition House Leader and the - MR. ROBERTS: The hon. member is not going to call the judges, is he? MR. WELLS: Oh, no, no, no! I had intended to approach the various groups in the House later this afternoon 'olith a view to discussing a time for that debate. The thinking I have now is that possibly Thursday of thi8 week. MR. ROR~RT~: And Friday. MR. WELLS: Well, yes. Certainly it would take two days if not longer to debate the subject.

So that is my thinking, but I will be approaching members of the House later in the day. MR. ROBERTS : Mr. Speaker, I thank the han. gentleman. Let me ask him another question on a little different matter. Could the minister tell 'us, Sir, when he will be bringing into the House the legislation to put into law the principle of a house for a house in expropriation matters. MR. SPEAKER (DR. COLLINS): The hon. House Leader. MR. WELLS: That has a familiar ring. MR. ROBERTS: It sure has! MR. WELLS: That of course is government policy.

The reason that it was not done in the past was it would have interferred with the federal­ provincial arrangements in some of these urban renewal schemes. I believe that the way is now clear to do this. I ask the hon. Minister of Justice ,or Municipal Affairs.· the way is now clear, is it not~to introduce the house for a house legislation? MR. ROBERTS: The Minister of Justice . - MR. WELLS: And that being so I believe we could introduce it - MR. ROBERTS: never heard of it. PREMIER MOORES: Me neither 'Ed', MR. WELLS: -in this session. AN RON. MEMBER: I have been so involved in it •• .• SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Oh, oh! 3058

March 16, 1976 Tape 1158 PK - 2 MR. WELLS: It was the federal-provincial arrangements that created the difficulty. I think that we are in a position to do it very shortly, Mr. Speaker. MR • . SPEAKER (DR. COLLINS): The hon. member for Burgeo-Bay d'Espoir. MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, I have a couple of questions for the hon. the Premier. He will recall that there was an aircraft reportedly chartered from Gander to Montreal. There is some confusion on that point. I would like to clear it up with the Premier's assistance.

Would the Premier indicate whether the aircraft was indeed c~artered, and if so was it a charge out of public funds on the occasion that be and some of his party went to Montreal ; enroute to Europe? MR. SPEAKER (DR. COLLINS): The bon. Premier. PREMIER MOORES: I have already spoken on that in the House, and other places, Mr. Speaker, but the answer is "Mo." No charge in public funds. MR. SIMMONS: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

I wonder if the Premier then would indicate to the House, and I ask this supplementary in view of the confusion which was created publicly by a statement from an EPA official that the aircraft had been chartered - SOME RON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SIMMONS: and the Premier's subsequent - , MR. MORGAN: A okay! MR.

SIMMONS: - statement that it had not been chartered, I wonder would the Premier indicate to the House whether the trip from Gander to Montreal was undertaken-or let me say it another way~if he would indicate whether at the time the trip was undertaken that he was aware that a gift from EPA at that time or was it something that he became aware of subsequent to taking the trip? PREMIER MOORES : Mr. Speaker, and even hopefully forecasting the next supplementary which was a conflict of interest, I suppose the bon. member will bring up - MR. SIMMONS: If necessary.

PREMIER MOORES: The fact is, Sir, that - if necessary, yes - the fact is, Sir, that it was never any indication to my knowledge that the 3059

March 16, 1976 Tape 1158 PK - 3 Premier Moores: trip was under charter by EPA. The situation at that time was very simple. Three of my colleagues were in Europe, One day we had to sit down together before they went of to different areas of concern,for this Province I might add, was the day I was suppose to arrive in Europe. St. John's Airport was fogged out, Gander was as well as far as landing was concerned, The situation was we drove to Gander with the hope that ,,lr Canada would get in that evening. They could not get in. Mr.

Miller,the President of EPA said, well you are on government business, and I would suggest that we give you a lift to Montreal to catch the overseas flight. I;beeause I was anxious to get over there, took him up on the offer and went. I have no qualms about doing it, Sir. This was not a vacation where a conflict of interest could come into play. This was,in fact,as Mr. Miller said, something that EPA would do for any Premier of the Atlantic area that they are serving. It is in fact that I was on government business. There has been no conflict of interest whatsoever.

It is not something that is normal,to say the least. But the fact is if the conditions were the same I would do it again. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMONS: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. member for Burgeo-Bay d'Espoir. 3060

'.I Nari:h 1£, 1976 Tape 1159 IB-1 ~'1'. SH':''ONS : "r. Speaker, I am not part~cularly :Impressed by the c1esk thumping but that :Is beside the point. A further supplementary, "r. Speaker. 'T'he Premier has ant:! cipaterl H. I am won~er:lng if the Prern:ler is in the habit of accepting rather large gifts such as this. I tmderstancl this values at about $6,000, and- ''T'. l'OPC ,~N: Bunkum! ''l".. SI:i'1''0l1S: ~'r. Speaker, if ~7 e can keep the 'yap' from Bonav:!sta f;outh (Mr. ~'nrgari.) s:!lent long enough - MR. MORGAN: - ~ripe! ~. SPEAKEF (nr. Collins): Order, please! ~ <Tl . SU"'0 NS: A supplementary, Yr.

Speaker. I have lots of time. Oh there :Is the man •rhn wants us to be silent now. Clh! l'r. Spe;~keT, I •'cmdeT would the Prel!'ier incHcate whether 11e i~ in rhe habit of taldng such large f(ifts as a matter of habit and also if he cons~<"ers rhis a matter nf conflict of :Interest in his role as Premier. ?'T'. SPF.N:Er (!'r. rollins) : The bon. the Premier. First of all, >•r. Speaker, it •'as not a large gift. Tt 'vas a substantial lift at that part:! cular time. There was no - Six thousand dollars. PREMIER }IOORE~: - g:lft :Involved in th:ls particular thing.

It :Is not something 'l>.'e are :In the hahH of, hut what the hon. member probably does not re.;ol:!.ze, >'r. Speaker, is that what we were on •ras governt"ent bus:tnesR to try to ~et things accomplished for this Province. Re cloes nnt understand, probably,that that :l.s :!.mportpnt and these things have to he> <"one. It was not a gift, It ~o.•as not largesse. It tvas not passed over :l.n cash. The fact is that :It was a service that 'l>.'e availed of. l~e had one economy seat to sit in each. He cannot sit :In two-even though 1.re can try :If we r.ain much more IJe:! p.ht. But the f a ct :Is w·c could not.

Sn >'cLean v on there. Pnm;;n"'c: No cloubt. PRF.P.IED. HOOPES: }!r. Spe;t k.er, the fact :1 s that :! t ,,,as clon