PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND AND LABRADOR HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY Volume 1 Number 34 4th. Session 34th. General Assembly VERBATIM REPORT TUESDAY, APRIL 14, 1970 SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE GEORGE W. CLARKE

April 14, 1970 Tape 450 The House met at 3:00 P.}!. Mr. Speaker in the Chair: PK-1 MR JOHN C. CROSBIE: Your Honour will recall that on Thursday past, I rose on a question of privilege, in connection with proceedings of this House last Wednesday, as they were recounted on Radio Station VOCM, by the hon. the Premier, on Thursday, April 9, at 10:15 A.M., and the matter being adjourned while I obtained a transcript of what was said on that program. I now have that transcript, Mr. Speaker, I have given you a copy and I have a copy here for anybody on the government side who wish it. I would first, Mr.

Speaker, like to refer to Beauchesne, "Parliamentary Rules and Forms", 4th Edition, 1958: Commencing first with page 95 where Beauchesne deals with the matter of the privileges of the House. On page 95 it states: "The Speaker's frmction on ruling on a claim of breach of privilege does not extend to deciding a question of substance or whether a breach of privilege has in fact been committed, a question which can only be decided by the House itself •••• " As I understand it, Mr.

Speaker, you have first to decide whether there is a prima facie case for breach of privilege, whether there has been a question for the House to decide. But, where there is in fact a breach of privilege or what should be done about it, must be decided by the House. "The matter should be raised at the earliest opportunity", which I did, Mr. Speaker, last Thursday.

Continuing over to page 98: "Libels on members have also been constantly punished but to constitute a breach of privilege they must concern the character or conduct of members in that capacity and the libel must be based on matters arising from the actual transaction of the business of the House." I will submit, Mr. Speaker, and propose to show that this was a libel on me, with reference to my conduct as ~ member of this House, based on matters arising in the actual transaction of the business of this Fouse.

Page 100, midway down the page: "But to constitute a breach of privilege a libel upon a member must concern his character or conduct in his capacity as a member and the conduct or language on which the libel is based must be actions performed or words uttered in the actual transaction of the business of the 1977

April 14, 1970 Tape 450 PK-2 House. Bad faith must be imputed and the charge cannot be indefinite •••• " A libel on a member's extra-parliamentary conduct (!.Jell, that is not the case here). The same rule applies to a charge against a member for conduct which renders him unworthy to sit in parliament and to criticize the House for not expelling him. Page 101, Hr.

Speaker: "Wilful misrepresentation of the proceedings of members is an offence of the same character as libel. •• '' And the learned author goes on to say, a bit further down: "Both Houses of Parliament will punish not only contempt arising out of facts of which the ordinary courts will take cognizance but those of which they cannot, such as contemptuous insults, gross calumny or foul epithets by word of mouth, not within the category of actual slander nor threat of bodily injury." If a question of privilege comes up, Hr.

Speaker, it should be dealt with by a motion giving the House power to impose a reparation or apply a remedy. There are privileges of the House as well as of members individually. A bit further down: "Libels upon members and aspersions upon them in relation to Parliament and interference at any time with their official duties are breaches of privilege of a member but a dispute arising between two membersrs to allegations of facts does not fulfill the conditions of parliamentary privilege." Mr. Speaker, I will submit that the facts in this case are indisputable.

I have given Your Honour a transcript of the radio-program conversation with the Premier, broadcast on VOCH on Thursday, April 9, 1970, at 10:15 A.H. to 10:30 A.M. I will not read the whole conversation. In actual fact, Mr. Speaker, listening to the program, of course, you get the impact of it far more than by just hearing this read in the House. The program starts: 'Hr. Co·rbi: "Good morning, Premier:" "Well, yes, it is good but not that good, it is very foggy." Question: "Sir, how do you look upon the events in the House of Assembly, around six o'clock, yesterday?" "I think everybody was shocked.

I really think that everybody was quite shocked by what happened and I have not 1973

April 14, 1970 MR CROSBIE: Tape 450 PK-3 heard much description over that air of what did happen. But what happened actually was this: Yesterday was the one day of the week, Hednesday - every Wednesday is what they call private members' day. That is the day when government business does not come ahead. All other days government business commences first but on 'vednesday any private member, any member of the House who is not a member of the government, can propose a new resolution or a motion and that commences first, that has to be dealt with first. "So the resolution yesterday was that Hr.

Hyrden condemned the Government because of a park which is on the West Coast. Now the House n;eets every night. At 6:00 P.M. on Mo~day. Tuesday. Thursday and Friday, on those four nights, at 6:00 P.r! •• if nobody moves that the House do now adjourn, Mr. Speaker leaves the Chair at 6:00 P.H. and resumes the Chair at 8:00 P.H., and then we go on until 11:00 P.H. That is on Honday night, Tuesday night, Thursday night and Friday night but not on Hednesciay night. " On \vednesday night the rules say that the Speaker leaves the Chair at 6:00 P.r!.

And the only way to meet on Wednesday night is that someone moves that the House do not adjourn at 6:00P.M., you see. '"Now a motion that the House do not adjourn is not like !!. motion that the House do now adjourn. The motion that the House do now adjourn is in order at any time. You can move that the House do nm~ adjourn and that is not debatable and has to be put immediately by the Speaker; that the House do now adjourn. " But what was needed yesterday was a motion that the House do not now adjourn or that the House will not adjourn at 6:00P.M., you see.

In that case the Speaker, when he \>lOuld rise at 6:00 P.H., would say: "It being now six of the clock I do leave the Chair until ei!'!ht of the clock." That is what would happen. But there was no such motion. No one moved that the House do not adjourn at six o'clock. Nobody moved that. And when Mr. Crosbie had missed all the chances to do it, and he could have done it, no trouble at all. He could have done it. There were half a dozen occasions when he could have done it. He missed them all. He missed every one of them, 1979

April 14, 1970 Tape 450 PK-4 and so did Mr. }fyrden and so did all of them in that group over there. They all missed their chance to follow the Rules of the House. "Now when they discovered this they tried to break the rules to do it. This meant that they had to stand up. And Mr. Crosbie did stand up at about a-quarter to six, around there. The minister was speaking at the time, He had the floor, Mr. Callahan. Mr. Myrden spoke for an hour,-condemning the Government and talking about the park and talking about the ~~ite Paper. When he finished, Hr. Callahan got up and began to answer him.

And he was speaking for about an hour and he was still speaking, still on the floor, and nobody could interrupt him, except with his permission, you see. That is the Rule of the House. Then Mr. Crosbie stands up and starts to move that the House do not adjourn at 6:00 P.H. Of course that was out of order. That was against the rules, and Hr. Callahan refused to yield and allow Mr. Crosbie to break the rules·.·" HR CROSBIE: That, Mr. Speaker, is an incorrect statement. It is not against the rules. " ••• he would not yj,eld to Mr.

Crosbie to break the rules •• " If the hon membered agreed to the interruption there would have been no rules broken at all. "He would not yield to Hr. Crosbie to break the rules. He would not agree, he would not consent, which was right. Then Hr. Speaker arose, around 6:00 P.M. or a-half a minute before 6:00 P.H, Hr. Speaker arose to say what the rule was and that it was in the hands of the rules. He had to obey the rules, and the minister not having yielded, }!r.

Crosbie not having moved the motion at the right time, the Speaker had no choice but to rise at 6:00 P.H. and meet again at 3:00 P.H this afternoon, you see." Now, Mr. Speaker, a reference to Hansard, for Wednesday, which we got yesterday, will show that only a small bit of Hhat Your Honour actually said is quoted here. You did say what the rule was, that you are in the hands of the rules, but you gave the House the chance to deal with this matter; if the Government had been v1ill:!.ng to do it. 1930

April 14, 1970 MR CROSBIE: Tape 450 PK-5 "He had to obey the rules and the minister not having yielded, Mr. Crosbie not havins moved the motion at the right time, the Speaker had no choice but to rise at 6:00 P.M. and meet again at 3:00 P.~!. this afternoon, you see . "Up jumps Mr. Crosbie, while the Speaker is on his feet. No one is allowed to stand in the House while the Speaker is on his feet, no one. If you are standing and the Speaker rises,you sit down immediately. Only the Speaker can be on his feet 1981

April 14th., 1970 Tape no. 451 Page 1 on his feet. When he is on his feet, he must be alone. Everyone else sits down. Now, Mr. Speaker; "But, Mr. Crosbie jumps up. He was sitting down and he jumped up while the Speaker was on his feet making his ruling and began to interrupt the Speaker." The Speaker said, "the hon. gentleman will please resume his seat." He said," I will not. I will not sit down. I am not going to sit down." ' He was shouting ti'.is at Hr. Speaker. This was the most shocking thing I have seen in a long time~· Mr. Speaker, that did not happen, as a reference to Hansard will show.

It did not happen. I did not jump to my feet, while you were on your feet making a ruling and interrupt you. You did not tell me to please resume my seat. I did not say, I will not. I will not sit down. I am not going to sit down. It did not happen. It is false. As a reference to last night's Hansard will show or Wednesday's Hansard and then it goes on. That is part of the libel there, Hr. Speaker. "I have not seen anything as shocking as that." This is the continuing of the program. "An open, brazen defiance of Hr. Speaker.

That is a complete defiance of the rules of the House and defiance of the precedence and the good order of the House. !~ is unbelievable. .Everybody in that c.House there yesterday was absolutely shocked by it and so, Hr. Speaker, he defied the Speaker. He just would not pay any attention to him. Would not listen to him. So, ~1r. Speaker, went in the parade, the procession out of the House, proceeded by the Sergeant-at-Arms with the Xace. You know the little formal procession out, and I called across the floor at him, 'bully boy, bully boy Crosbie' again, because he is; he is just a bully.

Yes, he is a plain bully, not just a bully, a plain one. Mr. Crosbie now, it is beginning to be, it has become very apparent, cannot stand losing. lie cannot take losing. He cannot take it. He cannot live with it. He could not take his loss at my hands, his defeat at my hands. He lost the leadership convention and he has been out to get me ever since." Now this is only political rhetoric, but I am giving the whole program. "You see he cannot stand it. He cannot take it. He has been 1982

April 14th., 1970 Tape no. 451 Page 2 opposing the Government in every single thing since the House opened. I do not know anything where he supported the Government. He opposes. He calls himself a Liberal, but he keeps opposing the Liberal Government, and if he can defeat the Liberal Government, then, of course, he will." Here is another objectionable part, Mr. Speaker; "But there is one thing that is his great Achilles' heel, his great weakness is that he cannot stand being defeated and even, Hr. Speaker, he would not.

When he lost out, because he did not know the rules and did not obey the rules and then he lost his temper, he began to attack Mr. Speaker." That, Hr. Speaker, is the complete and utter untruth. "He began to attack Mr. Speaker. All I say is, pity the ~An that gets in his way, when he loses, because I do not know . He has got a tremendous capacity for hate." Hr. Speaker that is another part of the transcript I object to. This is a libel on a member, in his conduct as a member of the House to infer that what he does in the House or what position he takes is because of the unworthy motive of hatred, is a libel.

It is a lie and il: is a libel. "He has got a tremendous capacity for hate. It is tremendous. Sometimes it is frightening. He will never say die. He will never give in." He is right there. "You can defeat him, but he will battle you. He will fight you. lie will not acknowledge defeat. Well there is something admirable about that and there is something frightening about it. It will be his undoing, because he loses his reason. He loses discretion and then aften.;ards, he will phone the radio stations and you think the butter would not melt in his mouth." N0\-7, Mr.

Speaker, another part that I base this on; "A mild way of speaking and you would not know that twenty minutes or half an hour before, the man had been up there, a raging lion, defying, brazenly defying the Speaker of the House ." Hr. Speaker that is untrue. That is a falsehood. That is a lie, and if that had occurred, I would have been suspended from the House. Your Honour would never have permitted it. It goes on; "You would never guess that. I do not know. I must say that he has been taking some bad blows lately. It must have been a terrible blow to him, our success on the big paper .1983

April 14th., 1970 Tape no.451 Page 3 at Stephenville. I am sure it must have been a terrible blow to him and his pride, our success at Come-by-Chance and this big oil refinery. I am sure that it must have turned him sick, when we brought in our great White Paper on our great program for Northwestern Newfoundland and if the Government of Canada accepts this shortly, I think it will kill him." I think I will have a long life. "I do not think he will be able to take it.

So he has been taking one bad blow after the other in recent weeks and no wonder, perhaps, that he is getting so hard to live with, so hard to get along with. But I ask myself this question. Since when did it become right in politics for a man, just because he is defeated, because he loses to act so savagely a~d to try to take it out of the hide of the person who defeated him? When did that become right? What makes that right? What is right about that? Hhat is right and proper about that? I have lost many times in my life. I have lost •.

I have been defeated many a time and I learned to grin and bear it." I object to this, Mr. Speaker, as a libel. "I did not hate the man who defeated me." Implication that this hon •. member hates the hen. the Premier. A complete lie, an utter lie. "I just worked all the harder. I did not attack him. I did not set out to get him. I did not set out to bring him down. I just set out by hard work and application. It is no shame to lose, but apparently to him, he cannot stand it. He cannot stand losing." Another objectionable part. "This is a frightful thing.

I must say I do not think I have ever seen people to be so shocked as they were in the House of Assembly at 6:00 p.m. yesterday by his brazen and open - and he was beside himself, he was beside himself. He was a sick man. He was a sick man the way he was acting." Question: "Sir, you have been called a dictator now and you are being referred to as similar to those down in the Banana Belt? Yes, because, by whom, by Mr. Crosbie. " Here is another Q.bjectionable part, Mr. Speaker, libelous. "By the man who defied the rules and defied Mr. Speaker himself. 1984

April l4kh., 1970 Tape no. 451 Page 4 Now in any other House and uhat I am wondering about, Hr. Speaker, is how does he feel? Now if it had been a little earlier, would he have been cited. Who he have been named? Would Hr. Speaker have named him? You know \..'hat that means. l.fuen Hr. Speaker names a member, then he is up for punishment." Misrepresentation to the public, Mr. Speaker, that my conduct in the House was such, that the Speaker could have cited me. Should have cited me. I should have been up for punishment. Complete ~isrepresentatic "It was all done while Mr.

Speaker was on his feet and the Hace was being brought by the Sergeant-at-Arms. You know what happened at that moment. May be Hr. Speaker did not have time to act or may be he was a little too late to act." Another objectionable part. "But no member of the House can for very long or very often get away with that kind of going berserk, of getting beside himself, absolutely, point blank brazenly refusing to carry out the instructions of Mr. Speaker." Mr. Speaker, nowhere at no time have I brazenly refused ·to carry out your instructions. Now the rest of that program is to do with the Bonne Bay Park.

The sections I have pointed out, Hr. Speaker, I submit, irrefutable proof that there has been a libel on a member of this House by another member of the House and every member of this House, }!r. Speaker, is entitled to the same protection. We are entitled to be protected from libels and misrepresentations said in the House or outside the House about us and our conduct as members of the House, or of the proceedings of the House. If we are not protected, if this House will not protect the individual members of this House no matter what side they are on, then Hr. Speaker, it is going to become a beer garden.

It can become nothing else. But for one member to go on a radio program for ten or t~vel ve minutes with that kind of misrerresentation and libel about the conduct of another member cannot be supported Hr. Speaker. If the House will support that kind of misrepresentat:i and libel about its members, then, if the House does that for one member, it must countenance it for all. 1935

April 14th . , Tape no. 451 Page 5 Your Honour, I would like to refer to Hansard. There .is no point reading all the Hansard. Anyone here can read the Hansard from the last seven or eight pages. It is tape 393, page 3. It is the llansard of Wednesday, April 8th., 1970, no. 29, page 1742. It covers this whole process. You will not find supported in this Hansard,. Mr. Speaker, the statements that I have particularly pointed out to your Honour. There was quite a bit of excitement, Mr. 8peaker, in the House. This is not a true version of what happened anyway or why we were not allowed to go on Hednesday night.

The Hansard does not support these remarks. They are libels and misrepresentatioi In a program the next day, for which I have not got the transcript, the hon. Premier made a statement that I was out to reck the House of Assembly, out to reck the Government. I could get a transcript of that program also, but I will not bother Hr. Speaker. I asked for the protection of this House. If the newspapers or radio stations themselves and news reports, Mr. Speaker, misreport what happens in this House ,or what a member says here, they are brought to task in the book for it.

I submit to your Honour that we are entitled to the same protection, when one member of the House misrepresents the proceedings of the House and the actions of the House. I, therefore, ask your Honour to find that there is a "prima facie" case of privilege and to move a motion that I presented last Thursday. There will have to be a little change in that motion, because I have already gotten a transcript and the motion starts to ask the Hou8e to get a transcript. That is my submission Hr. Speaker. I \-lould ask that you find a "prima facie" case so that the matter can come before the House. MR. SMALLHOOD: Hr.

Speaker, I do not propose to delay the House very much on this matter. Having heard read by the hon. gentleman_ the transcript of my interview on VOC~I on Thursday morning of last, I am surprised and impressed, favourably impressed by the accuracy of my description of what happened in this House on that occasion. The hon. gentleman did, in the full sight and hearing of this House, defy, brazenly defy your Honour. 1986

April 14th., 1970 Tape no. 451 Page 6 MR. CROSBIE: I did not. MR. SHAUHOOD: Your Honour did say to the hon. gentleman, ""the·,_hon. gentleman will please resume his seat." Your Honour did say that. The hon. member refused. He said, "I will not. I will not sit down." He said that to your Honour, while your Honour was on his feet. He sat down and stood up again. In full sight and sound of this House, he defied your Honour and it was only because your Honour was on his way out - the Sergeant-at-Arms even appealed, "Gentleman t;he Speaker has not gone out yet" or words to that effect. Someone called for silence.

Someone on this side of the House shouted, I do not know who it was, "Name him! name him! Mr. Speaker." I do not know who that was. The account just read was an excellent account, an accurate account of what happened here on that occasion. The fact that Hansard does not reflect what happened is of itself not too significant. The fact of the matter is that while I am speaking now, my voice is being recorded through this microphone on tape and then .it will be typed by girls who are not here. They are up in some room up there.

If somebody interrupts across the floor and that microphone is not on, that voice is not taped. This is why in Hansard, frequently, you see the interruption, "an hon. member or hon. members." There is no name. There is no indentification, because this is a weakness in our present system of Hansard. We do not know the names of those who do interrupt. They are unidentified.

If a number of people shout, then it is "hon. members" plural, but if one person calls across or says something, t:he name of that person is not given, because he is not identified, because of the system of recording, Hansard through these microphones on tapes. w~at happened here on that Wednesday night was not and could not have been accurately reported. So as the hon. gentleman has said himself, it does not really reflect what happened. The fact that it does not reflect what happened in this respect is, I suggest, to your Honour good reason to dismiss Hansard as a reference to this matter at all.

Hhat we have really is the transcript 1927

April 14th., 1970 Tape no. 45.1 Page 7 of my interview on VOCM, which I acknowledge. I have not seen the transcript, but hearing it read - I have not seen it and I have not seen it as of this moment, although I am told that it is now delivered on my desk, but hearing him read it, I remember vividly and distinctly that it is a correct reproduc ·tion or a correct reporting of the conversation I had on VOCM and I say to your Honour; it is a thoroughly, accurate report of what I said. I acknowledge saying every word that the hon. gentleman has just read out. I did, indeed, say those things, and I now repeat them. 1983

April 14, 1970 Tape {1452 Page 1 MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, in reply. The hon. the Premier who just replied did not reply to the points made in this transcript, when he alleges that I was told to sit dmm, sit do~m and I refused to sit down. JH Mr. Speaker was leaving the hall, and hon. gentlemen on the other side said sit down and tried to bully the members on this side in that fashion. I told them I would not sit down. Your Honour was already on his way out of the Chamber when all that .occurred. But in this transcript Mr. Speaker, I refer to you again, Page 2. "But Mr.

Crosbie :.jumps up, he was sitting down and he jumped up while the Speaker ~~as on his feet making his ruling, and began to interrupt the Speaker.'' Not a word of truth in it. The Speaker said, " the hon. gentleman will please resume his seat," and I said I will not, I will not sit down," he was shouting this at Hr. Speaker. Not a word of truth. HR. SHALLHOOD: It is absolutely correct. HR. CROSBIE: Hr . Speaker himself kno~<Ts whether there is a word of truth in that or not. that is one instance Mr. Speaker. There was no open brazen defiance Mr. Speaker, none at all. That I began to attack Hr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker himself must know whether I got up and attacked Mr. Speaker, and there was no attack by me on Mr. Speaker. That is one part of the complaint Mr. Speaker. The part that the hon. the Premier replied to not at all was an insinuation that my actions in this House are dictated by bad motives. Hotives of hatred for another member of the House. That is the most objectionable part of this whole misreoresentation, this vicious diatribe on VOCM. I do not ~!r. Speaker hate any person in .this House. HR. S!·1ALLHOOD: This is nmv debated. }ffi.

CROSBIE: The man that says I do is a liar, a complete liar and an utter liar and a scoundrel: That is obiectionable ~!r. Sneaker, that one member's conduct in this House is determined by unworthy motives is a libel on that member. But that is not re~ied to at all. And the part about being a sick man. ~-'ell that is political arp.;ument, but the allegation :Oir. 19D9

J\~ April 14, 1970 Tape /1452 Par,e 2 Speaker that my motives are determined by hatred of anyone, I say is a libel, I say it is untrue, and the man who makes the statement is a liar. Now these are the two points of my argument 1-!r. Speaker, that there is a prima facie case of a breach of privilege. If Your Honour rules that there is, the Motion is there to be voted on. He know Hro Speaker, that the Government has the majority in this House. MR. SPEAKER: This is not the kind of argument that we should have in a situation like this.

Is the hon. member through?~::_If the hon.Preniier wishes to reply, but I am not as I have ruled here on a previous occasion, I am not goinR to allow other than the statement, a reply and then the hon. member for St. John's has offered a few remarks in rebuttal, and the same can be said from the other oarties. MR. SMALLHOOD: Hy only rebuttal ~!r. Speaker, is I am surprised and pleasantly impressed by the remarkable accuracy there is my intervie\.T on VOCM the next morning, accuracy in the description of what happened here in this House. I stand by every word of it. MR.

SPEAKER: I thank hon. members for the information. I \yill take the matter under advisement, and the only comment that I will make on this occasion that I v7as here during the ~Yhole proceeding. NR. ROBERTS: If it is in order Sir, may I raise the question? It is a further question Mr. Soeaker, thank you. On Friday past I gave notice in the House Sir, that I would be raising the matter at this time. I had hoped to raise it yesterday, but found myself in exactly the same position as that referred to by the member for St. John's Hest in raising his other point a moment past, namely of getting transcripts.

I now have Sir, transcriots of stataments made by the hon. member for St. John 1 s Hest in ttvo radio broadcasts. One on radio station CJON at 1:15 on the afternoon of Friday April 10. I have a transcript that was:certified by the news editor of that radio station Sir. I also have a transcriPt of statements made by the hon. member on radio station VOGl at 11:30 on the morning of April 10. That transcript is certified by the news director of that radio station ~!r. 1990

April 14, 1970 Tape lt452 Page 3 Speaker, and I have a Hotion which if I may I will read to the House Your Honour. The Hotion is that the statements made by the member for St. John's lvest over radio station VOCH in the newscast '"hich began at 11:30 A.H. on Friday the lOth. of April, 1970. And the statements made by the member for St. John's West over radio station CJON in a ne,•scast which began at 1:15 P.M. on the same day, Friday April 10, do constitute a breach of the privileges of this hon. House. And that the member for St.

Johns' West be directed to withdraw these statements and a:polo~ize for this breach of privileges of this hon. House. Hr. Speaker, I raise my point by virtue of the Parliamentary Rules set forth in Beauchesne again the fourth edition being the only one currently in use. The relevant Citation is 1045 - it down to the bottom of Page 95, The right of making complaint of a breach of privilege is open to any mP.mber of the House and even if an individual member is affected is not confined to that member.

There is a further reference to Sir Erskine !-1ay, I believe the fourteenth edition to Sir Erskine ~lay, that is citation 356 Your Honour. Hr. Speaker, I should say that I listened arid I agree with the exquisition of Parliamentary law just given us by the hon. member for St. John's Hest, with respect to this other point of privilege. ~1y research in the authorities which guide us in these matters confirms essentially the points of law, the points of Parliamentary law, and it is a form of la'v }fr.

Speaker made by the hon. member, insofar as he set forth in this context the questions, the rules regarding these ouestions of privilege. Now Hr. Sneaker, as I have said I have the transcripts, and I have the Motion, and on Friday past, I said that I intended to submit that these statements constituted a breach of the privileges of the House, in that they constituted a libel upon the hon. the Premier bein~ a member of this House, a member of Humber Hest in his capacity as a member. If I may .iust brieflv read the relevant portions. I have the full transcripts Your Honour, quoting the hon. gentleman for St.

John's ~est on VOQI at 11:30 on the morning he sAid, and I quote," yesterday, he," referring to the Premier, "sugp;ested I 19!)1

Jtv April 14, 1970 Tape 1!452 Page 4 go ~\l'as sick, but I say today I am quite prepared to with," and he names the Premier by name, "for a psychiatric examination bv any competent psychiatrist, have him report on the mental health of both," again naming the Premier by name Sir, "and I," referring to the hon. gentleman from St. John's West. the "And I have no doubt at all who psychiatrist ~·Till report as being sick, sick, sick. It is obvious to anybody who listens to the Premier," again by name, "in Conversation with the Premier. That was the statement made on VOCM at 11:30 in the morning.

I am prepared to lay these on the Table of the House for the benefit of the members of course. With respect to radio station CJON Hr. Speaker, that same day at 1:15, the hon. gentleman made a statement which the relevant parts, and again Your Honour, I have the full statement. The relevant parts of which that "The Premier is not used to that kind of defeat. He is becoming psychotic about it running around now saying that I personally hate him, and that I am consumed with hatred." In other words Hr. Speaker, in each of these two statements, the hon. gentleman for St.

John's He'st alleged that in his view, the hon. the Premier was mentally ill. Mr. Speaker, in my notice on Friday I said, that I intended to submit to Your Honour's ruling that this constituted· a prima facie breach of privilege. And if Your Honour found it so to be to move the requisite motion in the terms I have outlined. Hr. Speaker, it would have been my submission that if the statements made by the Premier in the program on Thursday morning were a libel, the hon. member for St. John's Hest, as the hon. member for St. John's \Vest has thrice contended, that the statements made hy the hon. member for St.

John's t.;rest with respect to the Premier, were doubly a libel. They were in complete contempt of this House Sir. I say that ~~r. Speaker, that would have been the submission, because not only were the statements alleging that the Premier, the statements allegedly a libel of the Premier - Not only were those statements made by the same hon. member who complained that he was being libeled by the Premier. Rut Hr. Speaker, those statements by the hon. member for St. John ' s h'est, which •-'ere allegedly a lihel to the 1902

JW April 14, 1970 Tape 1/452 Page 5 Premier, not only \vere those statements made by the same hon. member who complained that he \vas being libeled by the Premier. But Hr. Speaker, those statements by the hon. the member for St. John's Hest, which were allegedly a libel to the Premier in his capacity as a member of this House, were made after the hon. gentleman for St. John's Hest had risen to his point of privilege. In other words Mr. Speaker, after the hon. gentleman for St. John's l~est had publicly said, that in his view, statements of this sort constituted a libel. In other words Mr.

Speaker, underline that point, because I think it is.:the keypoint. The hon. gentleman for St. John's \-Jest complained that certain statements Here a libel. On day two, he made the same statements about the hon. member he claimed had libeled him. In other words Mr. Speaker, there is in the submission, a double complaint. Mr. Speaker, as I said, that would have been my submission. After hearing the submission just made by the hon. member for St. John's West, and after researching as best I could the law of Parliament on this, I have come to the conclusion that there is not a prima facie privilege.

In my view Sir, I have come to the conclusion that this is merely a matter of two members differing as to a matter of fact. And Mr. Sneaker, as is set forth by Beauchesne, Citation 105 (3) on Page 96. A dispute arising between two hon. members as to allegations of fact hardly fulfills the conditions of a privileged question. I think that is a princinle well established in law. Accordingly :rr. Speaker, I do not propose to press this question of privilege at this time. In so saying Sir, let me say as one member of this .

House, and I speak not as a minister Sir, I speak as a member of this House, and I think my feelings are shared by manv members on each side of this House. The quality of debate, the quality of charges back and forth in this House, in my vie'" Sir, as one member, has gone far beyond. ~·tR. CROSBIE: }!r. Speaker, is the hon. gentleman speaking to this alleged breach of privilege \vhich he says is not a nrimc facie breach. If he is not 1993

JW April 14, 1970 Tape i'452 Page 6 then - if a debate is wished Mr. Speaker, we will debate in general remarks now. 19D4

April 14th, 1970 MR. SPEAKER: Tape 453 JM- 1 commentary on the statement particularly after the hon. member says he is not preceeding with his point of privilege will, I think, be unnecessary at this particular time. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, of course I accept your honour's ruling. MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, I do not have to speak very long on this matter since the hon. minister has already admitted that there is no prima facie case of privilege. MR . SMALLWOOD: Is there a point of order before the House now, Mr. Speaker? MR. SPEAKER: Is the hon. member rising on a point of order? MR. NOEL (Hon. Member for St.

John's North): Personally I am fed up with all this. I think we should move on. MR. WELLS: To a point of order, Your Honour. MR. SPEAKER: Yes. MR. WELLS: Your Honour, I agree with what the hon. member for St. John's North has said. I agree with his comment too, that I am pretty fed up with the whole mess, but to allow the hon. Minister of Health to st_and up at the outset and say to this House; "I am speaking on a point of privilege", and then say; "I am not going to make the point of privilege", after making a long-winded statement and allowing no reply is hardly fair parliamentary practice. MR.

SPEAKER: I would agree with the hon. member for Humber East in this respect. The hon. member gave notice that he was going to rise a point of privilege. He raised his point of privilege and then he stated why that at this particular time he was withdrawing his point of privilege due to what had transpired this afternoon due to his further research of the law, as he saw it, and he withdrew his point of privilege. Therefore, the matter is closed and that is the end of that. I will give my ruling at a later date on the other point raised. Now may we proceed to the orders. MR.

S}~LWOOD: I am very pleased and happy today to announce that in the month of May cheaper electricity rates will come into effect for most of the people along the North West Coast from Bonne Bay to Hawkes Bay. What is 19n5

April 14th, 1970 Tape 453 JM- 2 MR. SMALLWOOD: happening is .. that the diesel generating units now serving these communities will be replaced by hydro electricity. As is well known, hydro electricity can be produced at a lower cost than diesel and this lower cost is reflected in cheaper rates for the people. To bring hydro electricity to them the Newfoundland and Labrador Power Commission had just completed the construction of a hundred and twenty-eight miles of 69,000 volt transmission line from Deer Lake to Hawkes Bay.

This line under construction since July 1969 was built at a cost of approximately $3. million. The line will be fed from the Power Commission's Trans-Island grid through facilities of the Bowater Power Company at Deer Lake. Among the communities to be served by the new line are Trout River, Glenburnie, Woody Point, Curzon Village, Norris Point, Rocky Harbour, Lobster Cove, Bakers Brook, Green Point, Sallys Cove, St. Pauls, Cow Head, Daniels Harbour, Hawkes Bay, Port Saunders and Port au Choix. All these places have been served up to now by diesel generating plants operated by the Power Commission. Mr.

Speaker, I have had prepared a table showing the comparison in monthly electric rates charged under the diesel system and now the new lower rates to be charged for hydro electricity. These new low rates will come into effect in the month of }~y and the bills to the people in May will then for the first time reflect the reductions. And then follows the table which I do not propose, Mr. Speaker, to read except to say this, that it will be noted that the ratec for the first fifty kilowatt hours is the same under both systems, that is $2.50 a month in each case for diesel or the hydro.

But for all electricity used over fifty kilowatt hours the decrease in rates can range from approximately six-per-cent reduction to nearly sixty-per-cent reduction depending on the amount of electricity used. The main thing is that now the people in the communities that I have named will be paying the same for electricity as people in St. John's, in Gander, in Grand Falls, in Corner Brook and in other places served through the Power Commission's grid. The rates are the same for all. 19DG

April 14th, 1970 MR. SMALLHOOD: Tape 453 JM- 3 The building of this new transmission line along the North West Coast to Hawkes Bay is another stake in electricity development on the great Northern Peninsula. Mr. George Hobbs, chairman of the Power Commission, tells me that the future plans call for extension of the line farther North along the Peninsula and even if the extensions are higher voltage, say 138,000 instead of 69,000, the existing 69,000 volt line will still be needed for distribution and for standby.

Now with regard to standby, standby will include a gas turbine that is to be purchased by the Power Commission to be installed at l~wkes Bay. This gas turbine would be used for peak periods as needed and for any emergency such as happened for example when the recent sleet storm damaged the line to the Burin Peninsula and the gas turbine at Marystown filled the gap there until repairs could be made. I may say happily that the Burin line has just been restored. I am happy to announce that and the gas turbine there has gone back on standby.

Now, Sir, tendors are being called, right now, for provision of the turbine for Hawkes Bay and it should be ready for operation by the end of this year or early in 1971. Its acquisition and installation at Hawkes Bay will cost nearly $1. million. This will be in addition to the $3. million it required to build the transmission line to Hawkes Bay. Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to make this announcement on extension of hydro electricity to these people on the North West Coast.

I believe and this Government believe that the historic coast has a brilliant and glorious future and an adequate electricity supply is absolutely essential to any developments that will take place there. Now, Sir, I want to report as well satisfactory progress on another transmission line that will bring the cheaper hydro electricity to the people in the Hermitage Peninsula area. It is expected that they will, those people will be able to switch, change over from diesel to hydro in June or July of this year following completion of a line from Bay D'Espoir.

Construction of this new sixty mile line, this new transmission line to the Hermitage Peninsula 19D7

April 14th, 1970 MR. SMALLHOOD: Tape 453 JM- 4 area is costing approximately $1.8 million, the best part of $2. million. Among the co:nmunities to be served by this other new line are Harbour Breton, Hermitage, Sandy Valley, Dawson~s Cove, Seal Cove, Grole, Pass Island and Gaultois. MR. CROSBIE: I just rise, Mr. Speaker, to say that we are heartily in accord with these moves which are ordinary Government moves to extend hydro electric services. We are glad tb see that this is underway. MR. WORNELL: May I make a point of correction, }!r. Speaker. Sandyville or Stone : :Valiey, it is one or the other. MR.

SMALUlOOD: Mr. Speaker, today April 14th marks the thirtieth anniversary of a very great event in our history namely the departure of the first Royal Artillery Draft for service overseas in World War 11, thirty years ago today. This contingent became the nucleus of the 57th Newfoundland Heavy Regiment of Royal Artillery which was engaged in the coastal defence cf Britian. The 57th was subsequently changed in name and roll to the !66th Newfouudland Field Regiment Royal Artillery and saw action in North Africa and Italy.

The House will be proud of the fact that it's Sergeant-at-Arms was a member of this very draft that went overseas from St. John's thirty years ago today. Mr. Speaker, I know that I speak for all members of the House when I extend a cordial welcome to some thirteen boys who are here with us today as visitors in the galleries from the Boy's Home and Training School in Whi tbourne. Tl.ey are here with their assistant teacher, Mr. James Morgan. 1998

April 14, 1970, Tape 454, Page 1 -- apb MR. S}!ALLHOOD (J. R.) : They are here with their assistant teacher Hr. James Morgan. Now these thirteen boys are paying what I believe is their first visit to the House of Assembly, and I do hope that they \vill enjoy it, that they will find it interesting. That they will learn something from it, and that they will go back to their school rather gald that they paid a visit to this House of Assembly. This is where among other thi~gs, and I say that advisedly among other things this is \·lhere the laws of the land are made.

The laws of the Newfoundland land, the Province of Ne\vfoundland and Labrador. The laws are made here. They are brought in usually by the Government and they are debated by the House. All members of the House, both sides debate these la\vs and give their ideas, give their opinions, tell hoH they think the laws could be changed or improved, made better, amended, and after all the talk is over it is put to a vote and if it is carried it then is ready to become laH. But it does not become lmv, it is ready to become laH. It becomes law Hhen Her Hajesty the Queen gives Her Royal Assent.

NoH the Queen does not come here to :~evrfoundland to give Her Royal Assent to these laHs, yet they cannot become law until she does give Her Royal Assent, So instead of coming here the Queen commissions Her personal representative in Ne\vfoundland and she is represented here by a personal representative, and th~t personal representative comes up here to the House. Mr.

Speaker leaves the Chair and the Queen's personal representative takes the Chair and the Clerk of the House, the gentleman to the head of the Table stands dO\m at the foot of the Table, and he holds the La1v in his hand, is not a Law yet, but he holds it and he boHs and he presents it to the Queen's personal representative sitting in where the Speaker is sitting noH.

And he presents that Bill, and the Queen's personal representative says, "In Her Majesty's name, I Assent to this Bill, and he signs it, and then it is the LaH of the Land." So the La\" is made by the Lieutenant Governor Hho is the Queen's representative, that is the gentleman I have been referring to the Lieutenant Governor is the presonal representative of the Queen, he gives 1999

April 14th. 1970, Tape /•54, Page 2 -- apb HR. SNALLWOOD: the Royal Assent. And the Latqs therefore are made by the Lieutenant Governor and House of Assembly. It takes both to make Laws, the House of Assembly and the Governor, or if you like the other way, the Governor and the House of Assembly. Not~ these visitors today are not likely to see many Laws made, because it takes quite a while to make a Latv, everybody has to express his opinion, and tell what he thinks about it, and tvhere he thinks its good, and where he thinks its ·bad, and where he thinks it could be improved.

But, if they stay here long enough Hr. Speaker, they no doubt will be lucklv enough to see some netv Law made, and then as long as they live in the world they will say that Latv, I know all about that Latv, I tvas there in the House of Assembly tvhen they made it. And so I could almost for their sake, tvish that tve could get a Lat• passed here this afternoon, but I cannot guarantee it. Because you see, it is not only us here on this side of the House, tve pass the Laws,very quickly, but tve have to allotv the hon. gentlemen on the other side of the House to have their say.

This is a democratic llouse,and everybody has a chance to express his opinion. And tvhen they have all done that, then we take a vote, and the thing is on the way to becoming Law. Now the Leader of the Opposition is over there sitting in his seat, waiting impatiently for me to finish, because he wants to get up and agree tJith me. He wants to get up, and agree tvith every word I have said here today. He wants to say, how bright and smart looking he thinks these students are, and how intelligent and what fine young clean cut Netvfoundlanders they are, he wants to agree with me.

And so as I want him to agree with me, he does not do it very often, I want him to agree with me, I am going to say, we welcome them all, and now it is up to the Leader of the Opposition. HR. ANTHONY J. HURPHY: (LEADETI OF THE OPPOS I TIG;1) : ~1r. Speaker, I would like to join with the hon. Premier in welcoming these thirteen young gentlemen from Whitbourne Boys Horne and Training School. Perhaps after the past hour they might have wished if they had to stay in l~hitbourne and learned something.

The Premier said that he hopes, or Wished that perhaps ~o;e could create a Law today, no\,' he is not the only one, that wishes we could create a Law just 2000

April 14th. 1970 Tape 454, Page 3 -- apb 1-ffi. MUHPIIY: like that, instance Lm~s. There might be some changes in some things that are happening in this hon. House. Hr. Speaker 1 would quite seriously join tdth the hon. Premier in welcoming these boys and I trust that do not go by the old adage, I came, 1 saw, and I conquered.

But what has happened the past hour, just say 1 came, I sat~, and I am going to try to forget it. necause I do not think, and I feel this quite deeply, I did not have a chance to speak in , a few words '1.-let:e exchanged, but I do not think we are presenting this House of Assembly in the proper light that our people should see, and I v7ill have something to say about it later on when 1 do speak, but to you young gentlemen, I wish the experience is a new one for you, and perhaps at some other time, when we settle down to rational government and law-making in this House, you might have the pleasure of some future date, that perhaps.nat assistant, perhaps sat in the Premier's place, but with someone else over there who would extend you a welcome, to enjoy a very happy hour or an hour and a-half in this ~on.

House. And I trust that at somePfuture date, you will perhaps and some more of your friends tvill come back to this· hon. House, and judge of yourself, as all the people of this Province are expected to judge, just what the function of this hon. House is, to look after the interest of the people of the Province, and 1 think basically that is why we are here.

And that is what a great many of us are trying to do, and I will not s~eak for everybody, but I will speak for my grpup on this side of the House here, that we are here perhaps to do to the best of our knowledge, the best of our ability the job that He were sent here for. So again I <~'" very sincere welcome to all you boys here today. RON. STEPHI:;~ A. NEARY: (.!IiUSIJ:: R OF HELFARE): :Ir. Speaker, 1 just want to take a few moments to join with the hon. the Premier and the han.

Leader of the Opposition in welcoming these boys from the Boys Home and Training School of \olhitbourne, ~lith their assistant teacher, Hr. Horgan. I migth say Mr. Speaker, that my eight visits or so with the boys seated in the galleries have been probably the most rewarding and most heart warming experiences 2001

April 14th. 1970 Tape 454, Page 4 -- apb HR. NEARY: that I have had since becoming minister of this Department. Last fall }1r. Speaker, han. members might recall seeing a picture of a turnip, and cabbage patch at our farm at \fhitbourne. This Sir, was certainly living proof of \.;hat in my opinion, was the best ccbbagc and turnips ever produced in this part of the Province. Mr. Speaker these excellent farm products were grown by some of the boys, who are here this afternoon, and were really fit for the Queen, As a matter of fact, the han.

Premier referred to his Honour the Lieutenant Governor as the Queen's representative in the Province, and I might say for his benefit and for the benefit of members of the Rouse, that he and his good wife, were guests of those boys prior to Christmas and were treated to a jiggs dinner, that I am sure Mr. Speaker that they vrill remember for a good many years to come. Also Hr. Speaker, hon, members may not be aware of this, but the boys themselves built an outdoor rink at Whitbourne from lumber that they cut and sawed themselves.

And during this past \.,inter, this rink \vas placed at the disposal of the Recreational Commission at \fhitbourne for the use of the youth of that community. This is indeed; Sir, an outstanding example of the co-operation bet\veen a Government Institution and the people of the community, and it is a real tribute to the boys themselves. Once again, Sir, I would like to welcome the boys to the House, and I hope that this will be a good practical educational instruction for these fine Newfoundlanders and that they will reap some benefit from their visit to the people's House this afternoon. NOTICE OF HOTIO:-IS HR.

CLYDE \.JELLS: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave Sir to give notice, that I will on tomorroH move that on all \{ednesdays during the balance of this present session of the House, the Speaker at six o 'clock(P .:•!.) should leave the Chair until eight o'clock (P .~!.) at Hhich time the House shall resume and continue .until eleven o'clock (P.~.) unless sooner adjourn by motion put. A!''ISHERS TO QUESTIOXS 2002

April 14 1970 Tape 455 page 1. MR. SHALL HOOD: Question No. 360, asked by the hon. member for Gander.

(1) Yes.

(2) These represent the total ownership of all these companies with the exception of Jubilee and as to the value that is very much a matter of judgment. Question No. 361, asked by the hon. member for Gander.

(1) No. Question No. 374, asked by the hon. member for St. John's Hest.

(1) Yes. The name of the company in question is Jacobs Engineering Company of California. They have been appointed by the Government of the Province, to act for the Government of the Province and they have nothing to do with any other company, the client is the Government of the Province.

(2) Does not arise. MR.HELLS: Hould the Premier permit a supplementary question to this one, when was Jacobs Engineering of California appointed? MR.SMALLHOOD: Certainly within the last fortnir,ht. MR.CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, a supplementa~y question, it is not really a supplementary question, but the question is what date was such independent person so appointed, and the qualifications of that person in this field and whether or not the Government has received the feasibility report? Or will the Premier be answering those parts of the question later?

MR.SMALLHOOD: I do not know the exact dates I can find it, but the qualifications I can table those if I can remember to bring it up tomorrow or tonight. They are not to make a feasibility report, that is not their purpose, that is not why they are engaged to make a feasibility report. Their ap purpose is to/praise the value of the feasibility report already made. HR.SHALLIWOD: Ouestion ~o.

I do not know 'iYhat Order Paoer it is on but it is in the name of the hon. member for Fortune Hay District, I do not know the number and I have not p.ot it in the printed Order Paper so I do not know really ~,·hether it has been printed yet. I have it as a typewritten question. ~~at is ~r. Herman Batten's job in the Premier 's Office? 2003

April 14 1~/U Tape 4j) pace l. The answer is that he is there to be a special liaison bet~~ecn the Government and the Come-by-Chance Enterprises, From what vote is he paid? I think he is paid from General ContinRencies. l~as he granted leave of Absence from his job durinp, the last three months of 1969? He ~qas, I do not know if it precisely for three months but it was for a period of time. If so, was he paid by the Government during the time he was on leave? The ans~·7er is that he was not paid by the Government. MR.CROSBIE: "1-Jhat number was that? MlLSHALLHOOD: I do not know.

MR.EARLE: That has not been printed yet. MR. SHALV~OOD: Has not been printed, ~~ell I am answering even before I am asked. But when~the question does appear on the Order Paper I hope the hon. gentleman will realize it has been answered. Question No. 378, asked by the member for Gander. (1) (

a) Five movie prints, of the film Tuna Angling, the German Version (

b) this t\T3S for distribution in German ~peaking countries. The cost was $1177. (

b) Nil (

c) Nil. (

d) Nil. (2) 390. Not known, guestiC?n No. 412, asked by the han. member for St. John's Hest.

(1) Imperial LaBaron , 1969. Purchased April 1969 from City Motors at a trade-in cost of $7768, but that was not actually paid ~~e car was turned in, the previous model was turned in against that. I do not know t~hether it is plus trade-in, may he it is, I do not knot-J' much about the price of cars becanse I do not buy them I have not bought a car for twenty years. So I really do not know what a car costs. I drive a Government car so I do not have to be worried abour7£fiey cost either to buy or to run. I am one of the fortunate ones. 2004

April 14 1970 Tape 455 page 3. It is a Government car that I drive and I have a driver, the Government pays his salary. The total cost of operation for the year and by the way I may say w·e are/R8~ing one for the coming year, we are making this car last for t~vo years. The normal practise is to turn them in annually. MR.CROSBIE: The new Premier might like a new model. MR . S:HALLHOOD: The new Premier might lik~, H will be a very old car, the present one, I am sure he will want a new model, I am sure the ne,., Premier will want a new model because this one could be very very old, before there is a new Premier.

The annual cost of operation is $8769.32, The driver is $4914. Gas & Oil is $491. Tires $1604, that includes of course winter tires, studded snow tires, four of them on the car. Repairs and Parts $1500. Insurance $135. License $24 and telephone $442. She has a telephone in her and I use the telephone fairly frequer.tly. It is a Canadian National Telephone they have installed a telephone in my car, not my car, but the car that I drive in. so that I am isolated from the public I drive two hours a day in that car. Every working day, an hour to work and an hour back and I frequently use the phone as I come each way.

It would not be practical for the Premier to be out of telephone touch for t\o'O hours each day. I am never out of telefhone touch in the twenty-four hours. Throughout, right around the calendar, I am in, I can reach people by phone, and I can be raached by phone. Question No. 413, asked by the hon. the member for St. John's West.

(1) Soon.

(2) Quite recently just a few ''eeks ago. The minister may remember when the Chairman of the Forestry Commission was here in St. John's three ~.;reeks. (the question is addressed to me perhaps I ought to have had tt readdressed to the hon. mlnister) The Chairman was here the middle of January, a fevr weeks a!!O and '1-.•e expect in an3wer to

(3) Yes, soon, how soon is soon, perhans at the end of the present month, ~stion No. 417 asked by the hon, member for St. John's t~est.

(1) Yes, Mr. Hhalen is employed not b:; the Government by the Internal Economy Committee of this House. He is employed as an assistant to

April 14 1970 Tape 455 page 4 . the Editor of Debates. (2) lie is employed as a part-time emnloyee and the nature of bis duties is as I have stated. There is no agreed amount as yet of compensation to be paid him in connection t·rith these duties .

(3) He \>las employed by the Internal Economy Committee of the House . The date was approximately }larch 2, thou gh •.I. \>IOuld not S'l·!ear to it. But I am pllietty sure it t~as the first, second, third, fourth but I believe it \~as the second of March. Did the Internal Economy Commission hold a meeting for the purpose of not a formal meeting, it ,,•as like, it is frequently done, often been done, done dozens of times \Vhere a telephonic consultation takes place the Chairman of the Intern~l F.conomy Commission, ~fr.

Speaker, or perhaos the Hinister of Finance \<:ho is the important memher of it or perhaps the Premier \~ho is also a member of it. Either one of the three of us may confer with the remaining members hy telephone and agreement is reached in which case there then is no need for the physical mee~ing. 2006

April 14th. 1960 Tape 456 PK - 1 }1R. SMALUlOOD: are minutes kept of the decisions, this I honestly do not know. Are they? I do not knmv. They are? The minutes are kept, I was not aware of it. Question No. 425 on today's Order Paper in the name of the hon. the member for St. John's Hest. the ans"'er to the (1) "No." (2) "No."

(3) None. Question No. 426 on today's Order Paper in the name of the same hon. member. The ans~ver to the

(1) That a number of recommendations had. been put into effect before they "1>7ere received, and even before they \vere written. (2) "Yes." Question No. 427 on today's Order Paper in the same name of the same hon, member. (1) }7o appointment has been made. (2) "No," HON. HILLIAH N. ROHE: (HINISTER OF CmNUNITY A:m SOCIAL DEVI:LOP~!ENT): Mr. Speaker I rise to answer Question No. 318 asked by the hon. Leader of the Opposition, he is unfortunately not in his seat right no'"• on the Order Paper of Thursday, April 9th. And the answers are as follows;

(1) The settlement of Bide Arm, '~ite Bay is not classified as a growth centre as such. But rather as a special reception centre '"ithin close commuting distance of the Tm-m of Englee, ~vhich town was classified as another fishing growth centre as of January 1st. 1969.

(2) Hater and se~verage facilities are in process of being installed at Bide Arm, and they are expected to be completed later this spring or early summer.

(3) Electric power has been made available to the community of Bide Arm at a cost of $43,200 , for the line from Roddiction and for house connections.

(4) Yes, the Department was consul ted and was aware of the movement, as there "t-7ere extensive consultation about the best solution for the people of H110oping Harbour.

(5) Thirty-eight families which represents the 194 people, who hav~ moved to Bide Arm have recieved resettlement grants totalling $130,995. There are approximately twenty applications pending or expected for other people to move to Bide Arm. 2007 ..

April 14th. 1970 Tape 456 PK - 2 MR. C. lv.CLLS: ~1r. Speaker tvill the minister permit a supplementary question? Those thirty-eight families that have been moved to Bide Arm, how do the heads of the families earn their living, tvhat is done at Bide Ann or where do they work? Just a general idea. NR. ROl~E (W.N.h Yes, generally Hr. Speaker the answer to that question would be in the fishery and also other work, construction work that might be going on in the area. And tvoods ~vork as well. Mr. Speaker, I am informed by the hon. member for White Bay ~orth tvhose constituenty includes Bide Arm. HON. E. H.

ROBERTS: (MINISTER OF HEALTH): Could I just add a brief word to what my hon. colleague has said Hr. Speaker, the people of Bide Ann are exceptionally prosperous_by the standards of out-harbour Newfoundland. And my colleague the Minister of Helfare gave some figures in reply to a question the other day, I think there were six families on short term abledbodied, and if there is anybody knows the fishing areas, knows Mr.

Speaker, that when you get six families, the rest are on long term relief, widows.-:.as permanently ill, when you get six out of thirty-eight at this time of year in April on short time relief in northern Newfoundland in a fishing community, that Hr. Speaker is not bad at all, it is quite good. ORDERS OF THE DAY On motion of the hon. the President of the Council to introduce a Bill, "An Act To Amend The l1otor Carrier Act of 1961", read a first time, read a second time on tomorro>v. On motion of the hon.

Ninister of Labour to introduce a Bill, "An Act To Amend The Apprenticeship Act,l962." Read a first time, read a second time on tomo~row. On motion of the hon, Hinister of Labour to ask leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act To Amend The Annual Vacations lath Pay Act, 1969." Read a first time, read a second time on tomorrmJ. ADJOUP~·IED THE DEBATE ON TilE ADDRESS IN REPLY 2008

April 14th. 1970 Tape 456 PK - 3 MR. ROSS BARBOUR: Hr. Speaker, seeing Sir I did not have time to conclude my remarks lvhen I spoke Friday past in the Throne Speech Debate, because at six of the clock, I had to move the adjournment of the debate. Hr. Speaker before I go into my later part of the speech, I vrould like to be permitted just to say ho'\or proud I was last year to accompany the hon.

Minister of Social Rehabilitation to the m1itbourne Home, and to be taken through by the officials, I ~·as impressed Hith the cleanliness, with the conduct of the boys, and everything I saw impressed me so much, that I was delighted, very delighted to hau~that opportunity with the hon. minister. Mr. Speaker, I w·ould propose nm.;r Sir first of all to refer to some matters relating to my district. The first matter is the matter of agricultural, farming in my district. And I am happy to say that Bonavista South have some of the largest vegetable growing farms in the Province.

I arn · sure the hon. minister of }tines, Agriculture, if he was here vrould agree with me on that. Mr. Speaker, in 1969 indeed was a very good year for the farmers in Bonavista South. The year was a good one for crop production in the area, and market conditions lvere generally favourable::·. The ~{us grave Tmm, Lethbridge, and Harley's Siding and Hinter Brook communities continued to be one of the Province's leading vegetable producing areas, as in past years the acreage planted t&o vegetable increaseJ This thrend is expected to continue. Sir, the livestock MR. SPEAKER (HR. NOEL) Count the House, please. ?-m.

BARBOUR: Sir, as I was saying the livestock population of this area has increased consider;J.bly over the past few years. Hany farmers find 2009

.m April 14, 1970 Tape /1457 Page 1 'HR. BARTIOUR: must find that a livestock program fits into the vep,etable production program very ~.;rell. The livestock population also we hope, ~.;rill continue to increase over the next fe~.;r years. Hr. Speaker, one of the most important problems facing vegetable growers is the problem of storage. The vegetable warehouse which the Department of Hines, Agriculture and Resources helped the farmers to build some years ago, is now being used to full capacity, and does not nearly meet the farmers' needs.

Therefore Sir, several farmers in the area have constructed large modern vegetable storages on their farm. }[r. Speaker, there is an awful lot of mumbling going on, I can hardly hear myself speak. MR. SHALLHOOD: There is a loud noise from the crowd on the other side of the House. MR. SPEAKER: Order! Order please! MR. }illRPHY: It is not the duty of the Opposition to have a quorum. MR. SMALU!OOD: That is ~o1hat they get paid for. HR. ROBERTS: T~.;ro can play the game, AN HON. HEMBER: Is it their duty to be here tomorrow? MR. SMALLHOOD: Do you want that game to be played tomorrow?

Hould you like to play it tomorrow. Two can play the same game tomorrow . MR. SPEAKER: Order please! HR. BARBOUR: Mr. Speaker, I could not care less if every member of the Opposition leaves the buildin~, so long as the people of Newfoundland might hear a little of what I am goinp, to say this afternoon. I will take nothing back. And I do not want to be rudely interrupted anymore. ~1e have had enough circus in this House started by the side over there. HR. HURPHY: Twerity-one years of service. MR. BARBOUR: Twenty-one years of service to the people of Ne~.:rfoundland. They never had it so good in their lives. Mr.

Speaker, I would like to turn now Sir, to the Eastport peninsula farming area. Agriculture in Eastnort area has undergone some verv significant changes in the past year. Traditionally ve~etable production has been the main area of activity with potatoes, turnips and cabbage being 2010

JW April 14, 1970 Tape 1!457 the most important crop. In the past year several farmers have ~rown new crops. Hay production on bogland ~·as undertaken for the first time this year in this area. Hr. Speaker, six people are engaged in greenhouse tomato productivity. Last year's production produced somewhere around 15,000 pounds_, r,: f tomatos were harvested and sold locally. The area planted to greenhouse tomatoes will be expanded next year-and some new greenhouse cro~will be grown. And Sir, about three acres of strawberries were planted last year. These plants He hope 1olill come into production this year.

Thirty acres of hay were grown on bogland last year. Fifteen acres were seeded last Fall. Next year there will be forty-five acres under production. An area of bogland is also being prepared at Sandringham for vegetable production next year. And a twenty acre blueberry field was fenced and will be in production next year. Hr. Speaker, we have one, t1m, three, four, five, six, seven -we have seven tomato greenhouses in the Eastport peninsula area. Seven Sir. They are very large Sir, they employ quite a number of people working in them. They are plastic Sir.

And I understand that at the present time there is one greenhouse nm~ grmving tomatoes and should be ready shortly. The most of the harvest comes around July month. NoH I have said there are two tomato greenhouses in Eastport. They are managed by a Mr. Henry Squire and a Mr. Sampson Squire. In Sandringham a Hr. Aubrey Brmm, Abram Lane, Norman Hapgood, Helvin Hancock and Thomas Green. Mr. Speaker, I would invite any hon. member if he visit~ the Eastport peninsula to take time out and to see what is really taking place over there. For instance, in Happy Adventure we have a lobster vat.

And I have seen myself anYivhere from t~velve hundred to fifteen hundred live lobsters in the vat, very amusing, very interesting for the children. And the adults would buy the lobsters, boil them themselves or get them boiled. Particularly is this so of the tourists visitin~ Terra Nova Park. Mr. Speaker, I ~vould also like to refer to a community known as Terra Nova. It is as you drive throup:h the Terra Kova National Park on vour left 2011

April 14, 1970 Tape #457 Page 3 hand- it is eleven miles from the Park itself. In this community there is a man by the name of Hr. Lloyd Scot, and he has what is known as a "brooder's house," where he obtains one day old chicks and keeps them until they are ready to lay, and then he disposes of them - he has a very ready market and he tells me he cannot meet the demands. At this very moment while I am speaking, he now has 17,000 there ready to grow and to start laying eggs. He ships his eggs from Grand Falls to Carbonear - AN. liON. MEMBER: Eggs now or the chicks? .. JIV HR.

BARBOUR: Oh, the chicks I should say, yes the pullets yes, when they are ready to grow, when they are ready to lay their eggs he ships them, four months is it? These are the buildings that were once owned by the former A.N.D. Company and he has taken over the buildings, and he employs anywhere from two to five men to help him. :HR. SMALLHOOD: Does the hon. member know where he gets his chicks? HR. BARBOUR: Yes, Hr. Rremier. Hr. Speaker, he gets them from the Hillcrest Farm, Mr. Hinters. That is Hhere he gets them. Hr.

Speaker, I am just going to touch briefly on the Salt Fish Corporation which we discussed last night on Bill (48) re: The Act, The Salt Fish Harketing. You will recall then, I spoke for a moment in ,.,hich I said I was very proud because I came from a fishing family, the Barbour family who I am sure the Premier is very well acquainted with. Barbours from Newtown. I myself have been to the J.ahrador fishery, and I knmo1 what it is to endure hardshio, and there is nothing too good for the fishermen of Newfoundland.

And I am very happy that if the rumours we hear are true, I believe we have found the right man for the right job to be the new president. Mr. Speaker~ it might be interesting to know that more than 1 million have been paid to the Eastcoast fishermen asdefficiency payment on their 1969 salt codfish production. 2012

April 14th, 1970 MR. BARBOUR: Tape 458 JM- 1 Fisheries and Foresty Minister, the hon. Jack Davis, announced this recently. Claims adveraging over 200 has been issued to 5,351 fishermen of which 4,700 are in Newfoundland. An average of around 200, yes. Mr. Speaker, I would like now to say just a word about fresh fish. And as I thought about the Salt Fish Corporation and a couple of the members last night stole a little part of my speech, the hon. member for St. John's West, the hon. member for Burin and perhaps others because they referred to this market also. I wonder, Mr.

Speaker, is it possible that our Provincial Government can do something about setting up some kind of a marketing board to see that our fishermen who catch fresh fish and sell it to the fresh fish plants can get a more stable or at least to begin with a floor price1 For instance, in my district last year when the fishery started, early summer, late spring, right in the very community where the fishermen fish there is a very fine fresh fish plant, :now just because they could get a higher price an hours drive, thirty­ five to forty miles, further up the district they trucked their fish from this community to the other community an hours drive away because they could get a higher price.

Now if I had my way, Mr. Speaker, I would like to see fresh fish start at five and a-half cents for small, six and a-half for large because I believe the Provincial minister, our Provincial minister said last night that the American market for fresh fish is very good. Mr. Speaker, I would like also to refer to another little industry that we have in the to\vn of Bonavista known as the Queen Crab Industry. Last year I visited this plant several times and I noticed that the employees were all ladies just spotlessly white, white caps, white gowns, clean, and tidy.

They were processing this queen crab meat into five pound packages and the only men that are permitted to work around this plant are about eight or ten men who do the rough work and do the boiling of this queen crab. After that the ladies took over. Again I would invite any bon. member who visits the town of Bonavista to take time out and go in and see this. They are now expermenting on doing it up in quarter and half pound 2013

April 14th. 1970 MR. BARBOUR: Tape 458 JM - 2 eans. My latest information from the manager, Mr. }Iorey, is that it could prove to be very successful. In this plant last year they employed between sixty and seventy ladies and eight men. I am told they hope this year to employ nearly one hundred ladies and perhaps a few more men. This is indeed great for the people of Bonavista because it implements their salaries,the turnover in money and finances considerably. MR. MURPHY: When the hon. member is going down the next time what about taking us~ MR. BARBOUR: I am going to run again, God willing and I hold my health.

MR. MURPHY We should go down visiting. MR B~R~OUR: I would be only too delighted to take you, and you would have your eyes opened for perhaps the first time in your life because you are going to see the Liberal spirit, the Liberal spirit. Just to prove it, when the Tory Party had a meeting down there, a fortnight ago, to elect delegates to their so called Leadership Convention, which I think is going to take place on the fifteenth or sixteenth or May, there was not enough turned up to have a meeting, they. had no meeting, they had to cancel the meeting and all over the district with the exception of one place.

They found it difficult to elect delegates to attend the Tory Convention. I hear so much about people saying the noisy six, there is no noisy six, Mr. Speaker, there is only the noisy five because one of them who is running for the leadership of the Tory Party is scarcely in the House of Commons in Ottawa. His voice is scarcely raised, nobody hears anything about him and we will soon forget this fellows name. \Vhy? Because he is neglecting his duties in the House of Commons the same as he is in the Bonavista, Trinity, Conception riding. We scarcely ever see him. The people have learned their lessons.

The people the last time thought there was no need to get out and vote so they did not get out but they are not asleep any longer. Their eyes are open, they have seen the light and when the next Provincial election is called we will take her again and the next Federal 2014

April 14th, 1970 MR. BARBOUR: Tape 458 election is called we will take her again. MR. MURPHY: Any bets? .JM - 3 MR. BARBOUR: No I am a poor man, Mr. Speaker. I only draw one salary,and that is my sessional pay. I cannot afford to bet. MR. MURPHY: That is right. You do not get any fringe benefits on that side. MR. BARBOUR: Mr. Speaker, in my district we have thirty-seven longliners. The first was built in 1949 in April month. This year or last year 1969 in the area of Bonavista to Salvage one new thirty-eighc feet longliner was completed by .a Mr.

Maxwell Penney of Eastport and one new fifty foot longliner was completed at Trinity, Trinity Bay for Mr. Harold Hallett of Happy Adventure in Bonavista South. As of now in that area one new thirty-eight foot long­ liner is being built by Donald Littles at Bloomfield which we hope will be ready to commence fishing this year. Therefore the total number is thirty­ seven longliners in Bonavista South qf which there are eleven sailing out, fishing out, to the town of Bonavista. Mr.

Speaker, there is also in Bonavista South ~any, many small boat fishermen from Sweet Bay to Cape Bonavista particularily this is so around Plate Cove West, Plate Cove East, Open Hall, Red Cliffe and Tickle Cove, Keels, Duntarra, Kings Cove, Upper, Middle and Lower Amherst Cove and Newmans Cove and the town of Bonavista itself.

In the town of Bonavista itself there is nearly between 250 fishermen, most of them operating out of Bonavista in small boats say one man to a boat and sometimes two men to a boat but what is needed is larger boats because when there is a strong breeze of wind and heavy seas are running the small boats must return

whereas if they had larger boats they could stay out there much longer. Mr. Speaker, I am glad, long last, the twelve mile limit is going to be effective for the fishermen of Newfoundland. Sir, I certainly agree with the hon. member for Burgeo and LaPoile when he says it is shameful what our fishermen haaeto endure from Foreign and other Canadian fishing vessels. Not only - 2015

UlW April 14th., 1970 Tape no. 459 Page 1 not only is this happening in this district; not only is this happening in the Straits of Belle Isle, but it is happening in Trinity Bay, in Bonavista Bay, because I know from rny own experience. I have gone out to'Cape Bonavista in the evening, between the hours of 10;00 p.m. and 11:00 p.m. and I saw the large fishing vessels, draggers and trawlers; perhaps some were Canadian as well as foreign. They carne so near to the Cape, you could almost see the whites of the eyes of the fishermen on the decks of the ships. Mr.

Speaker, the fishery in rny district last year was not too bad at all. The lobster fishery started of good. The salmon fishery was very good and the cod fishery was excellent. The best we have ever had over the last three decades, thirty years and very, very fe~v fishermen failed to qualify for unemployment insurance. Mr. Speaker, while I am talking about the fishermen, I am going to say something now that gives rne a little discomfort and some pain. I want to refer to almost the nonexistence of the Newfoundland Federation of Fishermen's Locals. Mr.

Speaker, I recall, when the han. the Premier first conceived of this idea. I recall in 1951, when the Feddration was born and the first president, the late Mr. D. R. Abbott, and he had as his general secretary, who is now the hon. member for Trinity North, Mr. C. Max Lane. Mr. Lane worked from 1951 to 1956, then he became a member of the Queen's Government. Legislation was enacted so that he could stay on for another period of time as the general secretary. This man served ten years.

I am told also that during the Second Horld War, $700,000 was placed to the credit of the Fishermen's Fund to help them in time of need. I am now told that $400,000 of that money has been paid the executive of the Newfoundland Federation of Fishermen's Locals in Newfoundland, which I am sorry to say are very, very few indeed. When the hon. member for Trinity North was there as the general secretary, there were 242 fishermen's Locals, and he himself covered everyone 2016 ..

April 14th., 1970 Tape no. 459 Page 2 of the locals. I had the pleasure of accompanying him, and I saw something of what was going on. I think, Hr. Speaker, it is a downright shame that there is not more new blood injected into the Federation. People with new ideas! MR. MURPHY: Would the bon. member permit a question. What does the bon. member think was the cause of the lack of interest in his district, which is perhaps the greatest fishing district ••• ? MR. BARBOUR: I say the lack falls, becaHse those in charge now, the chief executive is . not doing its duty •. \.fuat he is trying to do, Mr.

Speaker, is trying to tear down, instead of trying to build up. He is always criticizing. He is never trying to give us something constructive to work on. I think it is about time - I think it is about time that this Government took a good hard look before they allow any more monies to be paid to run the expenses of the executive; that is the chief executive of the Newfoundland Federation of Fishermen. Because, if we do not be careful, we are not going to have any Federation. It was twelve thousand strong, when the hon. member for Trinity North was the general secretary.

I doubt, if there is oveL two thousand today. I doubt it very much. I would suggest that somebody do something to keep this great union that was once a great union of fishermen alive. If not, it is going to die. It will become a dead duck. Mr. Speaker, alot has been said about fishermen's catch failure insurance. No man, no man in this hon. House have worked so hard, as I have over the years, constantly for years, in contact with the officials in Ottawa asking could something be done to help the fishermen who would have this catch failure.

But some people said that, if there is such an insurance, the fishermen may become lazy and stay ·on the hanks. I detest that! That is not true. Our fishermen are hard working, honest people and very few of them would neglect their duties and try to take advantage of unfairness. But, Mr. Speaker, we cannot come up with a scheme that will be reasonabl :: accepted by the fishermen so that they will not have to pay too big a premium. 2017

April 14th., 1970 Tape no. 459 Page 3 I pray God the day will come, when this will happen. Now, Hr. Speaker, I am coming to this question that has been in the minds of people and talked quite a lot about, the killing of seals. Mr. Speaker, I was a sealer. I was to the icefield. I was out their the year, the great explorer Varrick Frizzel in the Beothic, with my uncle Captain George Barbour, and I remember sailing from Harvey's wharf at 4:00 p.m. on a Saturday afternoon and after steaming around the icefield for a week, the following Saturday night you would think that you were into the City of St.

John's, because the lights of the sealing ships were so numerous, it would do your heart good. This great man who later, as ·10 we all know, met with an accident in the S. S. Viking, use to~down · into the hole of the ship, and he would talk to the men. He would tell them stories. He would show them pictures. He was a wonderul man and a wonderful man on the icefields. He was a very tall man and he could jump the pans almost better than anyother sealer that ever went to the icefields. I was there. I roomed with him in the same room. I slept in the same room with him.

I ate at the same table with him and he was, Varrick Frizzel, a great man. MR. SMALLWOOD: The hon. gentleman should be very, very proud having been shipmates with Varrick Frizzel. He can be very proud. MR. BARBOUR: Thank you, l-1r. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I was talking about the killing of seals. If we do not kill seals, they are going to multiply. They are going to eat more fish than we are going to catch. That is a fact, Mr. Speaker. ~1r. Spe·aker, the Lady Johnson, which returned from the icefields with 3,500 pelts, this means that each pelt is two flippers.

The total then, twice 3,500 .. is 7,000 and the flippers sold for $1.00 each. Therefore, the eighteen crew members of the ship, including the captain sold - I know what I am talking about,$7,000 worth of flippers. Yes, they b~ing in the two flippers now, of course, they do. They always did. Why? They never 2018

April 14th., 1970 Tape no. 459 Page 4 keep one on the ice or keep the other on the ship. You should not make fun. They work too hard for a living. No, they dol:not use them for a tow line. They bring the flipper on board the ship. They do not leave it on the ice. No! they did not leave the flipper on the ice. They were not that crazy. MR. MURPHY: I am wrong? MR. BARBOUR: Sure you are wrong. I am right. I was there. You were not. The hon. member was not there, but I was. Excuse me for calling you, you.

I have great ~espect for him, because he is still my member, and I have to look up to him, because he will be coming around for.my vote again in the next Provincial Election, while he knows he is not going to get it. He is still welcome to my House and he can come in and have a cup of coffee. The only difference is that I had so many people coming to see me, I had to remove my name plate off the door. MR. SMALL'I\'OOD: What the hon. the Leader of the Opposition will get will be coffee but no vote. 2019 ..

April 14, 1970, Tape 460, Page l -- apb HR. BARBOUR: Hr. Speaker, now in addition to the $7,000. scalers have made on selling flippers then there is the pelts. I do not know yet the value of the turnout of that ship but it must be very encouraging to these eighteen men. Somebody tells me, I think it is my hon. friend from Bay de Verde that the flippers retails, or are sold for one dollar and forty cents each in St. John's. Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak about water and sewage for my district.

I know that DREE is going to play a very important part when this is really started, It is not started yet, it is true there are areas where there is supposed to be a beginning, but we are doing this just to get the ball rolling. I understand as I listen to the hon. the Premier, nothing is scarcely signed yet, and it will not be signed before late in the autumn so we cannot expect much from DREE until 197l and 1972.

I am satisfied that when DREE does become '"hat it is supposed to be, a big thing, Bonavista Bay and I refer to Bonavista North as well as Bonavista South will come into their own and they "'ill get their share of this DREE money for roads, water and sewage. I think I have said enough on DREE because everybody knmvs all about it now, and it is a good thing. Hr. Speaker, I am concerned about pollution just as much as any man. Here again I agree with the hon. member for Burgeo-LaPoile. Offal from the fish is being thrown into harbours and e·ven into the rivers. The smell sometimes is terrible.

I do not know the answer, someone more wise than myself will have to come up with the answer. Ilut something must be done about it because in the town of Bonavista the drinking Hater is not hi, it is double B, it is double C, and it is double D, and most of the people have to boil their water before they can drink it when it gets cool.

I Now we ~·ve thanks to the .-Atlantic Development Iloard, the great water line from larger ponds in Bonavista which leads to the fish plant and to the Ilonavista Cottage Hospital, and please God some day the great Town Council of Bonavista which has done a terrific job under its ~fayor, Mr. A.G. (Bert) Squires, perhan~ some day they will be able to make arrangements with the Government, or with the bank, or with somebody to

April 14, 1970, Tape l160, Page 2 -- apb install water and se,vage in the 1,100 houses in the tmvn of Bonavista. Hr. Speaker, coming to Come by Chance there was no member of this House of Assembly any happier than I was to hear how successful the Premier had been. He has \vorked so hard for this, like he has for other great industries such as the third mill, such as Churchill Falls, and such as the great wharf, and no'v the oil refinery at Come by Chance.

This is going to mean something to the p~ople of Bonavista South, because, from Hinter Brook, and from Cannings Cove, and from Salvage,it only takffione and one half hours or a couple of hours and they can be working in Come by Chance all day and commute from their homes to Come by Chance and go back in the evenings to rest at night, and come back the next day. I do not want all the jobs to go to the people in Argentia, I do want some of the jobs for the people of Bonavista South.

I want some of the jobs for the people of Bonavista North, and I "1ant some of the jobs for the people of Trinity North, and I Hant jobs for the people from all parts of Newfoundland. I do not want them just simply to come from Argentia, I cannot swallow that. I Hant my people in Bonavista South to get their share of the jobs too. They did not have it as good as the people had it in Argentia when the American base was there. The wharf to be built in Come by Chance which has been announced by the hon. Don Jameison, and announced to this !louse bv the hon. the Premier is going to cost $16 million or $17 million.

That is going to take 400 or 450 men, this is going to be a good thing for the people of NeHfoundland and it is going to increase their earnings. Mr. Speaker, thank God I have now kept one promise that I made to the people of Bonavista South when I was elected on the"Smalhvood Banner"if I am allowed to use the name Sir "the Smalhvood Banner" for the first time in 1959. In 1g59, when I went to Bonavista South as candidate for the liberal party there was only nine communities out of forty-three had electricity, only nine out of forty-three.

Thank God, today the forty-three have electricity the kerosene lamp has become obsolete. They can now press the button. I remember \.;rhen I officially turned the switch in Port Blandford, one grand old 2021 ..

April 14, 1970, Tape 460, Page 3 -- apb lady came out and she kissed me on the cheek. and she said "that is for Premier Smallwood, MR. MURPHY: I wonder if you ever gave it to him? MR. S:t-L\LUlOOD _ (J. R.) : I am still owed that kiss MR. BARBOUR: Mr. Speaker, she said it was great for her grandchildren. It is great it is great, it is very, very great to have electricity and I am proud that I played a small

part in this because like the Premier~ said when I go after something I sit on the steps of the Cabinet office doorstep, or I am after the Premier, regardless of who it is, until I try and get '"hat I want for my people. Every community in the district of nonavista South thank God, has electricity, electric power because this Government gave it to them. Why? Because this Government is now the greatest Government Newfoundland has ever had. After twenty-one years we are still grmming strong, and \ve are going to grow stronger and stronger. We have not scratched the surface yet.

There is so much to be done and 'tve must be about the business of the Province. I am a little bit fed up and tired with manpower centres. HR. S}IALUJOOD: And thousands of others MR. BARBOUR: Hen go to the trade schools, vocational schools and they learn trades. Now please, listen to this. They learn their trades, they get their diplomas, they get their certificates, they hear that there are so many jobs for welders, or electricians, or plumbers, or carpenters.

They go to the manpower, and the official there, he must do what he is told to d<J, but he say "hm-1 much experience do you have?" "Well I have no practical experience, but I am a plumber, I can prove that, I have learned my trade." "I am a carpenter, I can prove that, I have learned my trade, I am an electrician, I am a welder." "Oh, I am sorry we cannot take you, you must have a number of year experience." Mr. Speaker, hm.r in the name of God, is a man who has a trade going to get experience if he does not get a job? I hope ar.

Speaker, I hope, I hope, I hope that ,.;rhen Come by Chance gets started. there will be an::-office open on the spot, not by manpower, but by some representative 2022

April 14,1970, Tape 460, Page 4 -- apb from the companies concerned, and men will be treated accordin g to their trades and their ability, and they just will not be pushed off. I have men coming to me every day and I see a lot of men, and I get a lot of letters, and I get a lot of telephone calls, and I get a lot of tele grams. MR. HELLS: It is not the Department of Hanpower that sets these requirements. Z.IR. BARBOUR: 1-lho sets them? MR. HELLS: The company \·:ho wants to hire the men, they tell manpower what they want a man with so many years experience . MR.

BARBOUR: l~ell then, let manpm~er tell them that we are not goi~g ·; to swall0\>7 that . Or, let the Government say "sorry we are not going to accept it." Mr. Speaker, I am happ y that we are going to have I !}ope ,. • very soon a new doctor's residence built i n t l\i!; old community of Kin g 's Cove and I hope we will be able •.•.•.. . • . .• . 2023

Ap'ril 14th. 19 70 Tape 461 PK - 1 MR. BARBOUR: will be able to find a doctor, because at the present time Mr. Speaker, apart from one lady doctor and two male doctors in the cottage hospital at Bonavista, there is no other doctor in Bonavista South. They either have to go to Come-by-Chance or to Clarenville and take their turn. Because every doctor that goes into the Musgrave Town area, which is a prosperous town, this is a prosperous place, when he makes a lot of money he leaves and goes somewhere else. In my mind, they are not interested in helping the people.

But I am glad to say that I have a nephew, my brothers son, twenty-three years old, he will graduate on the 15th. of May, and he will come back, and I believe the Department of Health under the minister will arrange for him to go to bigger hospitals, and if he is as good a doctor, as his uncle is a politian, he will be some doctor. Hr. Speaker, I am getting thirsty. Mr. Speaker the cottage hsopital _ in Bonavista does not only take care of the people from Upper Amherst Cove to Bonavista, it takes care of the people from Trinity North as well.

As I said, we have one lady doctor there, and two male doctors, and seven or eight nurses. This hospital,-the minister is not in his seat 0 This hospital that the minister, the cottage hospital in Bonavista needs to be improved on, needs to be extended so that it can p,ive a ~reater service, even though we have three fine doctors there. They are doing a great job. Very few of the patients complain, they work around the clock, but for the oldest town in North America, discovered by John Cabot in 1497, we should have a much larger hospital.

And referring to John Cabot, I believe when I starting talking in my speech last Friday, some han. gentleman on that side of the House said, when I referred to the statue, ,, were they going to make a statue of me? MR. MURPHY: MR. BARBOUR: Oh! yes, they did. MR. WELLS: Were you going to pose for a statue? MR. BARBOUR: My statue is already in Bonavista South, there is a Barbour Street, that is one statue. There is a Barbour swimming pool, that is a second statue. 202 0 There is a Barbour bridge that is the third statue. And there is the Barbour

· April 14th. 1970 Tape 461 PK - 2 MR. BARBOUR: room, that the hon. member for Burin referred to the other night, that is doing a good job, because the Lion's Club Members go there every week and have their meetings, and I am happy that the Premier was into the Barbour room, he had lunch there, and he interviewed people there, and in the evening he had a private meeting with the Town Council in Bonavista there. Because I was there and made notes, so the Barbour room, hon. ·. member.- for Burin is doing its duty. of winning his seat MR.

SMALLWOOD: If the hon. member for Burin could bP as hopefult as the --~ hon. member now speaking can be, he would be a happy hon. member. HR. HICKMAN: I will be back. ~m. S}~LWOOD: Back is right, he will be back. MR. HICKMAN: Back where? MR. SMALLWOOD: He will be away back. HR. BARBOUR: Hr. Speaker in the last election 1966, I had a great man opposing me, a wonderful man, a hard working master miner . in the person of the late Captain William Moss, a sealing captain, as well as a summer captain upon the rivers, employing a lot of men. He lived in Princeton, he had a beautiful home there.

He was a great man, he was my opponent, but what happened? I got 2651, I think it was, and he got 1231. Now who -· will be elect against me, whether it is in Bonavista South, or St. John's East Extern'l MR. HICKEY: That is right, or St. John's South? MR. BARBOUR: St. John's South, no my hon. friend is there, he is doing a good job. No, I could not go against you, because you are so modest and so kind. :MR. · ~IURPHY: What about St. Barbe South? MR. BARBOUR: St. Barbe South, I like the colour of his face. MR. NEARY: Not the colour of his hair? MR. BARBOUR: His hair needs to be wigged. Mr.

Speaker, I would like now-sir to say something about Federal Post Offices in my district. It is true, it is true over the past five or six 2025

April 14th. 1970 Tape 461 PK- 3 MR. IlARBOUR: years the Federal Government have built some beautiful post offices, beautiful ones in Bloomfield, in Musgrave Town, in Eastport, many lovely post offices. But, there are a few places like Tickle Cove, Red Cliff, and Open Hall, which I am afraid are going to lose their post offices because of the small revenue. The same applies to Amherst Cove West, and Middle Amherst Cove. So I took it upon myself to write the Post Master General, the hon. Eric Kierans, and send a copy to the hon. Don Jamieson. I must say those hon. gentleman replied to me, and particularly the hon.

Don Jamieson, and told me that he would use everything within his rights as a minister to see if he would keep some of the post offices in Newfoundland, including in my district open. Now whether he can succeed or not. But, we the people of Bonavista South thank him most sincerely, for the interest he has shown in that regard. So I thank Don Jamieson, very much. Mr. Speaker, I would like now to refer to paveme~t, I said, when we get DREE going we are going to get a lot of it. We need pavement at Port Blandford, which is five miles long, the road through the community.

We need pavement at Lethbridge, Musgrave Town, Bloomfield, Canning's Cove, and many other communities. We need pavement in Eastport, Sandringhan, Sandy Cove , and Happy Adventure. But, but, I am glad to say this, I am glad to say this, and I being the member for Bonavista South, the road two and a-half miles through the town of Bonavista,from.wuat is kno~m as the Maid down in Baby's Cove up to the upper part of Kennel has been paved. I know and I am glad, that the road from Bonavista to Port Union a distance of seven miles has been paved. This is since my being the member for the District.

I know, that the road from Clarenville to George's Brook, to: Lethbridge leading into Southern Bay a distance of twenty-two miles has been paved. I know this, because I witnessed it. I helped to get it. And I am proud of it, and we are goine to get more. We are not going to rest until the Cabot Highway paved from Claren:~~ille to Cape Bonavista. MR. SMALU-lOOD: That will be Liberal paving. MR. BARBOUR: Oh! definitely. Because, ~Ir. Speaker, if we are going to wait 2026

April 14th. 1970 Tape 461 PK - 4 MR. BARBOUR: for the Tory Party to take over the Government of Newfoundland, we are going to have a long, long wait. I am going to be here at least another decade. But it will not be in my time. I was with the Party one time, and I got beaten badly by my hon. friend the member who is now the member for Trinity South, I got beaten badly as a candidate. But I saw the light, I saw the light, I saw the light. And ! was invited by the Premier to join his Party, and I ran in Bonavista South , and I had two opponents against me, and I just knocked them senseless.

I got 2900 and some odd votes in that election in 1959. And one opponent got 109 votes, I think the other fellow got 960 or something, but he was a big man in the church, that is why he got so many. Mr. Speaker, I am almost to the end of my humble remarks. I would like to thank the officiais of the Unemployment Insurance Commission for their co-operation and for their kindness to me this past winter, and spring. 2027

:-!R.MRBOUR':' -------- I have nothing to say however that complaints are being reduced considerably Now why has this happened? Everybody knoHs the

part I play in the field of Unemployment Insurance. I was constantly fighting, writin~, knocking on the doors of the officials, of the Unemployment Insurance Commission, and many improvements were made. And I do Sir, receive letters from districts, from the Labrador, from other parts of the Province of Newfoundland asking me to help them. I am happy to do this. But, the officials of the U.I.C. office also help me.

And every time I take the phone, every time I visit them, every time I go before their commission, and plead my clients ease-l do this free mind you - I do not take a penny for this - I am not like a lawyer, get so much for signing his name to a piece of paner. I do not take a penny I would not do it, because I like helping those \,•ho need help. So I think the officials of the Unemployment l"Csurance Commission at Pleasantville, without of course mentioning any of their names. Now , Mr. Speaker, I do not suppose there is any hon. member in this hon.

House that is a backbencher has received so much publicity from the news media as I have received over theyears, particularly, this is so in 1969, and so right up to today. So I 1~ant to pay a tribute, I v.•ant to say Thank You gentleman of the press •. Oh , yes there is a lady too. Thank You ladies and gentlemen of the press, for the services rendered for Yours Truly for keeping me on the map, for keeping my name before the people, for keeping your shining light aluays burning in the interest of a common man. I thank you gentleman of the press for that publicity. Mr.

Speaker, before I take my seat I just '!-1ant to say this, I vJill never be a de2.f. ector, not since I joined the Liberal Party. I de f: ~cted from the side over here but I will never go back. I Hill never be a Liberal renegade. I will be an honest, sincere loyal Liberal and I hope, I trorc some day, I hope some day to Tllal:e the Cabinet I am not too old yet I am in my second adolescence I feel young, I am full of vigour, I am full of energy. Hy doctors tell me I am i_n great condition.

I want first of all th thank the Premier for inviting me to join his party eleven years ago, and I have been a sitting member of this House ever since. I want to thank him for his kind advice to me many times in the past I want to thank him for the '<73Y he has l-.el·11ed me, <ld"~- <;1nf1; me hm-1 to cond!J..:t

Aprl..L 14 1':!/U Tape 4t>L page L. the people's business in my district. And as long as he remains Premier, I think like I said Sunday on radio it is going to be a long, long time yet before you get rid of him. Because he is not really started. He will be good for another t,,renty years, if he '"ants to stay here. My God! Hy God! we have never had it so good in our lives as we have had it the last twenty- one years.

Never, we should be proud of this man, fought the National Convention, This man "lho stood alone, this man who dreamt dreams and had visions and turned them into reality, has changed the face of Newfoundland for the better for mankind. \~e have never had it so good in our lives. MR. S~ALLHOOD: The hon. Rentleman is losing his support all along this side of the House, he is losing it, he is losing this side of the House here now. HR.BA~'BOUR: No, I think - MR. S~!ALLHOOD: I do not want to stay another t~.renty years, •••.• not t\.lenty years. They are quite willing to Hai t like I am "1illing to wait.

HR.MURPHY: The hon. member is ready to take up the torch Hr. Speaker, he is young and handsome. MR. S~~LL\WOD: No he c!oes not want the premiership he does not want that. :1-ffi..BA~'TIOUR: Hr. Speaker, I said I '10uld love a cabinet post, I would love a cabinet.post, I think I have the ability to be a cabinet minister because I know the people of Newfoundland and I know their problems. And there is no office in that department of cabinet. But I think I am qualified - '1-ffi..HELLS: There is one coming up, the minister of Fisheries. }fR. BltRBOUR'i Is there one coming up? No, do· not tell me, do not tell me, ~!r.

Speaker. when I started mv speech last Friday I said I did not '"ant to retard the prog~rss of the hon. House I hope this afternoon that I have not put anybody to sleep. I hope this afternoon I have not·retarded the orogress of the ooerations of this hon. House. And to those who have spoken before me I must say I have enjoyed their S!Jeeches, not ah'ays agreeing of coun;e with them, and I know there are much b-etter men to follm.r me now and to vou one and all I say this: Be just as concerned on that side of the House as we are on this side for our constituents. 2029

April 14 19/U Tape qo..: par;e ;,. • Because the most important thing we should all remember is this to find jobs for the people for without jobs the people perish, they must live and that is the only waytthey can live and get a decent living is by getting a job and as long as I am a member of this hon. House I will ahmys \.:rork to try and find a job for a man also for a lady. MR.P.J.CANNING(Placentia Hest): Thank you gentlemen. Hr. Speaker, I rise to take

part in this debate. I do not think that I have the good sense · of humour to entertain but I must sincerely and honestly 't-7ish that I had the sincerity of the people at heart. to the extent of the hon. gentleman w·ho just sat down. I am sure he meant every word that he said and he is a very sincere honest upright Newfoundlander. Mr. Speaker, I join with the speakers in congratulating the mover and the seconder, of the Address in Reply, the hon. member for St. Mary's and the bon. member for Trinity North. It is so long nm-t Hr. Speaker, since this motion ~ms introduced to this House.

I could have forgotten ,,Tho the mover and seconder were. But for the fact that those gentlemen are great widely knmm respected men, who stand out as great Ne\-lfoundlanders;, lfuo between them have given a total of service of almost a hundred years to their native land. As teacher, magistrate, doctor, civil servant and on to public life to play a prominent

part in bringing Ne,.;rfoundland frorr. a poverty­ stricken a::z::ea back1-1ard area ,,There there ,,Tas little hope to one which is without doubt is today one of the most exciting and promising areas of Canada. lole have to be certain now after those years that we have the potential resources provided of course that \.:re are ready and willing to \.:rork hard to pull up our sleeves to put Newfoundland first and accept the challenge of today. Mr.

Speaker, in all my twenty-one years almost now, within a few weeks sitting in this House I have never before ''itnessed such ,.;raste of time nor have I heard such futile wrangling with little business carried out in the interest of our Pruvince as I have since February 18th of this year, the opening date of the Assembly. Today Hr. Speaker,_! think it is the fourteenth, practically all legislation yet is in its introductory sta~es, while this, the People's House daily becomes a courthouse scene with the main actors, la,vyers, all 2030

AprH 14 l 'J/U Tape l.fOL page 4. conten ders for a job that does not even exist . It does not exist because somebody js in it . There is not one there, there is no vac~ncy, so there is no job such as another leade~ existin~ . Those youn~ la,,T)·er s 1-!r . Speaker, who just but a fet~ years ago graduated then came i nto this House, overnir.ht became potential leaders and they become authority on anything and everything f r om the Vietna.11 Har to the birth control pill . Thus Hr.

Speake r the leader of this Government must accept some r esponsibility for those egois ts when he referred to so many of them as potential leaders. Re said t hey \oTOuld make futu re leade~:s, but he omitted that they needed experience . They forgot that experience is a prerequisite .:. to that coveted job which he holds down, perhaps Hr . Speaker, 2031

April 14th., 1970 Tape no. 463 Page 1 Mr. Speaker, he left that to their imagination. Mr. Speaker, what I think of those wranglesome months, weeks or months of time wasted, is not too important. I want this House now to get on with the business of the House. My being bored or disgusted is of little significance compared to the serious impact of retarding the business of the Province. I do not think, Mr.

Speaker, that our police or our hospital workers or our civil servants who expect or hope for a well-deserved raise, are to impressed with the fact that the bud~et is not yet brought down and it should have been, Mr. Speaker, at least before the end of March. Mr. Speaker, I just heard where somebody is laying the blame, but I will tell them now that the people of Newfoundland know where to lay the blame for this delay and they will deal effectively with those responsible, when the opportunity arises. If this wrangling and delaying tactics had been carried out, Mr.

Speaker, fifteen or twenty years ago, before we had the communications of television, papers, radio that we have today, I would be out in my district explaining that I had not taken any

part in it, that I was no patt of it, because I am sure, if I did not clear myself of this, Mr. Speaker, I would not be able to go back and face them again. Mr. Speaker, the legislation before this House today is too important for us to allow any further waste of time, with ridiculous antics of a few ..... dissidents who have no regard for the welfare of the people who elect them.

The course they have taken is one leading to their political destruction, but we here on this side of the House and I may say her Majesty's loyal Opposition or the original three, we are all responsible people, wish to see that the rules are carried out and that we should behave ourselves in a manner that is becoming to this House, and to get on with the people's business, and do as the Speech from the Throne suggests, build upon the foundation of past centuries and particularly the past two 2032

April 14th., 1970 Page 2 Tape no. 463 decades, a great Province. Now I am not sure, Mr. Speaker, if we are not somewhat responsibile or somewhat guilty on this side of the House. Perhaps we should have used more courage and patriotism during the past few weeks. Again perhaps, we should have cleared the air once and for all, have the smoke screened and tell the true story behind this great way of the dissidence to independents and swelling a little by numbers, I would not say in prestige or imagine, the ranks of the Tory party, where they took refuge, when they quit. However, Mr.

Speaker, most of us here on this side of the House, I am sure, know very well that our Newfoundland people know the truth. They know;all the yelling of the Province being bankrupt, that we are under dictatorship, that there is no planning and pretending that they are the brains and the savers of Newfoundland. All of this, Mr. Speaker, is just· a front, just propaganda to cover up the real reasons for abrupt departure, and break away. Mr.

Speaker, it is hard to believe that three or four, supposed to be fairly intelligent Newfoundlanders, could imagine for one moment that the people of Newfoundland can be fooled so easily? Do they think that they can persuade the people of Newfoundland that they did not leave for business reasons? And that they are out to unseat the Premier and get the job or get after the job, try to become leader of this Province, become leader of this Province, }1r. Speaker, at any cost, with no regard to the welfare of Newfoundland. Mr.

Speaker, it is difficult to imagine that they could think, for one moment, whom they are kidding. MR. CROSBIE: Ur. Speaker, I am wondering whether the hon~ member wants to lay a charge, Hr. Speaker1 Hy point of order is, does the hon. member wish to make a charge ? MR. CANNING: If there is no point of order, t-tr. Speaker, I have no notion of yielding to anybody in this House this evening. We have wranp,led and argued and stabbed and jabbed across this House long enough now. The people 2033

April 14th., 1970 Tape no. 463 Page 3 of Newfoundland today, Mr. Speaker, are getting pretty fed up with this House. I am a member of it, Mr. Speaker, and I know it and I do not want to become a part of it, Mr. Speaker, and if it continues, I will be absent from here for the rest of this session, if that has to go on. I stood up here this evening, Mr. Speaker, to contribute to this debate, to do as expected of me by my district, to do my duty as a representative and that, Mr. Speaker, I intend to do, but if the wrangling goes on, I will sit down, Hr.

Speaker, and the people of Newfoundland tonight will know that you just cannot do your duty here in this House. Mr. Speaker, I will, in that tone, dwell on the Speech from the Throne and the matters of my district, because already too much time has been spent on political postmortems. Mr. Speaker, after twenty-one years representing.my native district, I can state to day that I have never before felt this confident in the future of my district and in the future of Newfoundland, as far as that goes and in the whole of Canada, as I do today.

From my ::::::·;:...:.:.;; area and the entire Burin Peninsula, this year we will begin the seventies, I think, with what we consider as a breakthrough. A breakthrough to much better days, a breakthrough to more jobs, a breakthrough to better services and greater remuneration for the work that the people do. Mr. Speaker, with the reality of the oil refinery complex and its potential related industries plus the,almost,third mill now that the morale or the spirits of the people of my district, I ean assure you, is at an all- time high.

The fresh fish industry is emerging from the slump to activity of further planned expansion which this year since late fall, dragger crews have been landing the highest catches on record. Mr. Speaker, they have made the highest wages, the highest returns for the number of days fishing, that ever was made in Newfoundland before. All the fish plants are working full time. Some have had to taken on extra 2034

April 14th., 1970 Tape no 463 Page 4 personnel and work overtime. Mr. Speaker, the shipyard at Harystown or the ship repair yard, I should say, is becoming a little more active. It has had a setback owing to the fact, of course, which is obvious 1·of the slump in the fishery.

When the companies could not afford to have the desirable repairs, they kept barely within the law and barely within safe of the limits of operating the draggers and, of course, even when the markets improved and the • d~ fish we~e plentiful, catches were bigger, it stilknot mean immediate reactivation of the yard, because then the plants had to make up for the lost time, the losses they had suffered while they were going through this great setback of last year. Mr.

Speaker, in a recent visit to my district, it was refreshing and satisfying to me to note the air of optimism among the people; the satisfaction that the Come-by-Chance complex, industria~ cornplex,had become a reality. I can assure this Government now and its Leader that the people appreciate the great work of years that went into this,· many worries, many frustrations, (l.nto··: final reality. Mr.

Speaker, I think, if the Premier were to visit that area, he would find, despite the fact of what it has meant, what it has taken out of him in recent years in many long days and nights of worry over this, the gratitude of the people and how delighted they are and he would say, I am sure, that the whole thing was well worth while. 2035

April 14th, 1970 MR. CANNING: Tape 464 JM - 1 the Placentia Bay,! suppose I am one of the most fortunate or we are, my friend on my right, with the difficulty at placentia to be overcome as I think it will within a short time, I think we are among the most fortunate in this House that we represent districts which have had such a surge ahead in industrial development in recent years.

The ERCO Plant at Long Harbour, the Come~By-Chance Complex, the modern fish plant at Marystown, the shipyard and the other plants on the Burin Peninsula, the fishing industry which now is surging ahead and there is every hope and I have reason to believe that the ship-building yard which is lying idle at the present time will be before the end of this year perhaps see activity that may go into several years to oome. Mr. Speaker, it has already been said in this House that those plants, even those with the stern draggers, even the plant at Marystown or Burin, even those will have to increase their numbers.

I believe I was given a figure sometime ago of one plant that has ten draggers and said that they must go on if they are to continue and prosper until that number is doubled. Then again, Mr. Speaker, the side-dragger must be replaced. It is outmoded and outdated. And then the most important still of course is the fact that they are uncomfortable and there is so much time spent in the open while they are fishing and it is very difficult to get crews to them.

It is not easy, too easy, although I think it is becoming attractive, to attract young men to the fisheries, to the Grand Banks, to the stormy nights but if we do not keep the fleet modern and they do not get best returns, they surely will not return. Mr. Speaker, the thing at the moment is that if you go to }!arystmm t:rr Grand Bank Area it is encouraging to see a lot of young men fishing and very young skippers.

The other day, I think it was at Marystown or Burin, I am not certain, one plant or the other, one of the biggest voyages, I believe, brought in this year among the top voyages, the skipper was twenty-three years old. He was that young I thi~k, unless I am mistaken, Mr. Speaker, that young to be a constituent of mine. 2036

, ___ .._ -· April 14th, 1970 Tape 464 JM - 2 MR. CANNING: Mr. Speaker, for this year within my own district I think that it is safe to say that we will probably see full employment. I assure you, Mr. Speaker, that is quite a change from, not when I came to this House first, but even eight, ten or twelve years ago. There is a stepped up interest in the shore fishery, there will be some fishermen or several fishermen return to the islands this year. Most of them will be from my hon. friend's district of Placentia East but it appears now that there will be a trend to return to fish during the fishing season. Mr.

Speaker, I am glad to notice this because Placentia Bay, that particular area Paradise, Mersheen, Red Island, down in the bay and further out, is I : suppose among the top fishing centres of the areas of all Newfoundland. I would not say it is the top but it is an area that very seldom the shore fishery fails. When the people began leaving those settlements to go to the other parts of the bay, the other side of the bay, I thought that really they would leave their fishing premises where they were, even their boats where they were, and return annually to the fishery.

But for some reason or other this did not happen in the first year, two years or three years after their leaving. Now I suppose with the new Salt Fishery Board,with the guarantee or knowing what they are going fishing for or they are hoping to know in a few weeks, I think they have been encouraged and we will see perhaps twice as many back to those isolated settlements this year than we did in the previous year . Mr. Speaker, again I am quite happy that the Burin Peninsula or my areas and other areas of course the Burin Peninsula will come under the DREE Program because, Mr.

Speaker, within my district itself there is one great need, or a lot of great needs, because it seems that the more you do or everytime that you feel that you have accomplished a lot you will see looming on the horizon other problems with the change of times and growing population and industrial development. But one of the greatest needs, one of the most serious aspects I suppose in my district today is pollution but it is not the pollution of the air, there maybe some in it, but it is drinkin g water. 2037

April 14th, 1970 MR. CANNING: Tape 464 JH - 3 Mr. Speaker, I have today at least four settlements, four larger settle- ments, that are not organized, with no town councils or community councils, where the drinking water is contaminated and it is not, just not fit to drink. So the one thing I hope that will come under DREE will be to install water and sewer facilities in those villages. Of course, again in the organized areas there is community councils and the town council and we