First Session, 43rd Parliament

Official Report

of Debates

( Hansard )

Thursday, May 1, 2025

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 52

The Honourable Raj Chouhan , Speaker

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

Contents

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Statements

Grand Forks Border Bruins Hockey Team

Donegal Wilson

Introductions by Members

Speaker’s Statement

Removal of Legislature Cat from Speaker’s Office

Introduction and First Reading of Bills

Bill 15 — Infrastructure Projects Act

Hon. Bowinn Ma

Members’ Statements

Charity Fundraising by Dawson Creek

Chapter of 100 Women Who Care

Larry Neufeld

Day of Mourning for Workers

Darlene Rotchford

Journey to Freedom Day and Vietnamese Canadians

Brent Chapman

National Volunteer Week

Amshen / Joan Phillip

Protection of Eagleridge Lands on North Shore

Jeremy Valeriote

Service of Health Care Workers

Sunita Dhir

Oral Questions

Speculation and Vacancy Tax

Rosalyn Bird

Hon. Brenda Bailey

Hon Chan

Telus Health Services Contract and Programs for Adults with Eating Disorders

Jeremy Valeriote

Hon. Josie Osborne

LifeLabs Labour Dispute and Delivery of Medical Laboratory Services

Jeremy Valeriote

Hon. Josie Osborne

Government Response to Concerns of B.C. Residents Supportive of Separation from Canada

Dallas Brodie

Hon. David Eby

Speculation and Vacancy Tax

Scott McInnis

Hon. David Eby

Housing Taxation Policies

Á’a:líya Warbus

Hon. David Eby

Government Housing Policies

Linda Hepner

Hon. Ravi Kahlon

Larry Neufeld

Building Code Energy Regulations for New Housing Units

Macklin McCall

Hon. Ravi Kahlon

Government Action on Affordable Housing

Lorne Doerkson

Hon. Ravi Kahlon

Comments by Cabinet Members on Issues Currently Before Courts

Peter Milobar

Hon. David Eby

Tabling Documents

B.C. Utilities Commission, annual report, 2023-24

Orders of the Day

Government Motions on Notice

Motion 21 — Permanent Officer Status for Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel

Hon. Mike Farnworth

Á’a:líya Warbus

Motion 22 — Appointment of Deputy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly

Hon. Mike Farnworth

Á’a:líya Warbus

Speaker’s Statement

Recognition of Service to Legislature by Seunghee Suzie Seo and Artour Sogomonian

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Housing and Municipal Affairs (continued)

Hon. Ravi Kahlon

Rob Botterell

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Water, Land and Resource Stewardship

Hon. Randene Neill

Donegal Wilson

Proceedings in the Birch Room

Committee of the Whole

Bill 7 — Economic Stabilization (Tariff Response) Act (continued)

Steve Kooner

Hon. Niki Sharma

Thursday, May 1, 2025

The House met at 10:04 a.m.

[The Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: Lawrence Mok.

[10:05 a.m.]

Introductions by Members

Trevor Halford : Somewhere in the gallery here is a very good friend of mine. This person served as

a constituency assistant for the one and only Olga Ilitch when she was here. She is

here. I think she now works at the Richmond Oval. A good friend. It was great to catch

up yesterday in the building here.

I ask the House to please welcome Heidi Lyons from Richmond.

Hon. David Eby : Members of the House might see behind me the former Finance Minister. Kat Conroy

has dropped in to say hi to us.

The former Minister of Finance reached out to me recently. I was headed to the Kootenays

to visit our members there. She expressed her apologies for not being able to join

because she was going to the AC/DC concert. So if members are worried that she isn’t

finding a good way to spend her time, rest assured she’s rocking like a hurricane.

Larry Neufeld : Up to my left I’d like to introduce my parents, Murray and Kathy Neufeld, salt-of-the-earth

farmers that taught me how to work. I can promise you that.

I also want to introduce my oldest daughter, Danielle. Many of you in this House that

may or may not have stayed awake during my initial 30-minute speech would remember,

perhaps, she’s the one that survived a head-on collision with a tractor-trailer, and

after two months in the hospital learning how to walk again, she finished her engineering

degree, of which I’m so proud.

Even better than that, she has brought with her my first grandchild, who is now 11

weeks old.

Dana Lajeunesse : Today I’d like to introduce some very good friends of mine, Nan and Michael Hundere.

Michael came from San Antonio, Texas, originally, got his Canadian citizenship in

the early 2000s; and Nan — it took her a little longer to come to her senses. She

just got her Canadian citizenship last year.

Their good friends Fred and Margaret, also from east Sooke, and last but certainly

not least, the love of my life, my beautiful wife, Kim.

So give them a warm welcome, please.

Elenore Sturko : I would like to recognize three groups of students from the Hazelgrove Elementary

School in my riding. I’m not sure if they’re here yet, but they will be on the precinct

today.

They’re visiting the Legislature, of course, to learn about the democratic process

and gain a better understanding of the important work that we do here on their behalf

and for the future.

I would invite all members to join me in giving them a warm welcome today.

Hon. Josie Osborne : Hon. Speaker, bear with me. I have three introductions, which I’m happy to intersperse.

I’ll take your cue.

Today we recognize community Pharmacy Day in the B.C. Legislature, and we welcome

members of the B.C. Pharmacy Association, including chair Colleen Hogg. They are here

in the Legislature. These are pharmacists who play an absolutely vital role in public

health, from delivering millions of flu and COVID-19 vaccines to expanding access

to primary care and supporting the overdose crisis response.

[10:10 a.m.]

I would invite all members to join their exhibit in the Hall of Honour today and to

thank these pharmacists for their continued service to our communities.

It’s also my pleasure to acknowledge that today is National Physicians Day in Canada,

and I want to thank the more than 16,000 physicians who serve British Columbia. B.C.

doctors support patients and communities in every corner of the province. Last year

they provided more than 132 million health care services and delivered more than 35,000

babies.

The date for National Physicians Day is May 1 because it is the birthday of Dr. Emily

Stowe, and we honour her legacy as a woman who worked tirelessly to establish a pathway

for women to study medicine in Canada.

Today Doctors of B.C. continues to be the voice for doctors in our province, representing

those people who work absolutely tirelessly in B.C. — rural locations, urban communities,

helping keep patients safe and well.

Would the House please join me in congratulating and celebrating these physicians.

And I’m allowed to do the third. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is more of a personal one. I want to take a moment to recognize somebody who

is very special and has joined us today in the gallery. He’s a dear friend and extraordinary

staffer, Charlie Brenchley. He is closing out his

chapter with the B.C. government.

Charlie started his journey in my office as the new Minister of Municipal Affairs.

He clearly didn’t get scared off from this work because he’s gone on to serve in issues

management and chief of staff to three ministries — Municipal Affairs, Environment

and Forests.

Over the years, Charlie has brought so much heart and humour and an absolutely unshakable

commitment to making life better for people in British Columbia. They’ve been calm

in chaos, incredibly cheerful under pressure and always the person that you want in

your corner.

Today we are saying goodbye not just to a brilliant colleague but truly a friend.

I know that we’re going to miss him a lot more than he’s going to miss his government

cell phone.

I want to say thank you so much to Charlie and wish him well on his next adventures.

Heather Maahs : It’s my honour to introduce my very good friend Susan Mathies, who is here from Chilliwack

North today.

Susan has been around the political block a few times. She was Laurie Throness’s riding

association president. She is currently my riding association president, also the

regional director.

Please welcome Susan to this Legislature.

Hon. Christine Boyle : This morning it is my absolute honour to welcome members from the Kitsumkalum First

Nation.

Joining us in the gallery are Chief Troy Sam, Elder and Hereditary Chief and chief

treaty negotiator Alex Bolton, director of economic development Diane Collins, treaty

negotiator Allan Bolton, Nicole Wallace, Mark Stevenson and James Hickling.

I was so grateful to visit their beautiful territory and have a lovely lunch and meeting

and tour together in March. I look forward to meeting with them again later today

to discuss the important work we have ahead together.

I ask the House to join me in making them feel very welcome.

Jody Toor : Today I’m truly honoured to be introducing someone that has done a lot of work. For

over 40 years, Mr. Kamal Sharma has been involved in the entertainment business, bringing

together South Asian communities.

He identified the need in local population to help bridge the gap between South Asian

entertainers, entertainment news and the fast-growing new immigrant population in

the Lower Mainland. Mr. Sharma has remained true to his roots and shared his love

of South Asian culture, entertainers, music and Bollywood stars.

Can the House please welcome Mr. Sharma.

Hon. Brittny Anderson : I have two introductions to make today.

The first introduction. I would like to say thank you so much to the Prince George

intergovernmental relations committee. I got the opportunity to meet yesterday with

Coun. Kyle Sampson, city manager Walter Babicz, Coun. Garth Frizzell and senior adviser

Catharine Sikobe.

[10:15 a.m.]

The meeting was absolutely excellent. I am so grateful for all of the hard work that

they’re doing in Prince George and also regionally and with First Nations. I’m also

really grateful for the partnerships that we’ve developed with them. I just wanted

to say a thank-you. I know they’ve had many really incredible meetings this week.

Will the House please welcome them, again, from Prince George.

My second introduction is that I hope the entire House will wish a very happy birthday

to Evan Brown. Evan, before working with me, worked with our former Premier, John

Horgan, and then also with our Minister of Health. Working with two such powerhouses,

I feel so grateful that I get to work alongside Evan every day. He brings so much

enthusiasm. He works incredibly hard.

I hope the House will please all wish Evan a big happy birthday.

Gavin Dew : It’s my pleasure to welcome Andy Shen to the House. Andy is a communications professional

currently working for the B.C. Pharmacy Association as manager of member services.

He previously ran for Coquitlam city council, worked on numerous provincial and federal

campaigns and worked for federal MP Wai Young. But perhaps most importantly, in these

times when budgets are tight, Andy runs a Facebook page with Costco deals, helping

over 30,000 British Columbians save money.

Thanks, Andy.

Steve Morissette : I thought maybe I should have called shotgun on this, but the Premier would have

taken precedence anyway. I rise to welcome and thank my predecessor, mentor and friend,

Katrine Conroy.

Her family has given so much to our riding in British Columbia. Her late husband Ed

served for ten years in the Legislature and Katrine for 20, also serving as Minister

of Children and Families, Forests Minister and Finance Minister. We all know the family

sacrifices to serve, but to serve for 30 years and from the Interior with the travel

is exemplary.

Please, once again, I ask you to warmly welcome my friend Kat.

Kiel Giddens : May 1 is a special day for the Giddens family. My parents are celebrating their 43rd

wedding anniversary.

John and Candice Giddens — I hope the House would help me to congratulate them.

I love you, Mom and Dad.

Hon. Bowinn Ma : I see that in the gallery, we are joined by nine-year-old Kendrick and 11-year-old

Espen, hailing all the way from Hope, British Columbia, home of Rambo: First Blood .

Nine-year-old Kendrick loves piano, challenging himself on the mountain bike, and

he’s an aspiring biologist. Eleven-year-old Espen is a voracious reader. He is also

a budding videographer and shows a knack for software development, which he probably

gets from his dad, who he has also brought with him, Miles Bissky, development manager

with our home-grown Jane app, well used throughout the province to

schedule medical

appointments.

They are all kept in line by Meghan Bissky, who also works as an Indigenous mental

health outreach worker with the Ministry of Children and Family Development.

Will the House please join me in welcoming them feel very welcome.

Harman Bhangu : Today we have Katie Glover’s grade 10, 11, 12 political class here from Brookswood

Secondary.

I had the pleasure to go in and speak to them about the democratic process, day-to-day

life of an MLA for Langley-Abbotsford and Transportation critic. They’re an amazing

bunch of kids. They had a bunch of great questions.

I’d like the House to make them feel very welcome.

Susie Chant : We are in a chamber full of very, very wise people. But one of the very wise women

in this chamber is being celebrated today, and her family is here to enjoy the celebration.

[10:20 a.m.]

I’d like to welcome Mr. and Mrs. Seo; husband, Daniel Bourgoin; and kids Noah and

Adam of our very own Suzie Seo.

Statements

Grand Forks Border Bruins

Hockey Team

Donegal Wilson : While I’ve been here in Victoria, I have just heard that the Grand Forks Border Bruins

have won the Mowat Cup. I wanted to share that with the team.

I know that a few weeks ago I shared that they also won the Teck Cup. So they wrapped

up their season with a very strong showing, and I would like to congratulate the players,

the coaches, the billets and the families that supported that team through a great

season.

Introductions by Members

Hon. Lana Popham : I’ve got grade 9 and 10 students from Discovery School visiting here today in the

Legislature from the heart of Saanich South. I was able to say hi to them at the back

door, and I would just like to really welcome them here.

Have a great time at the Legislature.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Kat Conroy has been properly welcomed by my colleagues. I just want to very quickly

add my voice. Following in these big shoes, both metaphorically and physically — we

share that trait — is really something.

I’ll let you know that in so many rooms that I come into, people ask about the prior

minister. Her warmth and her genuine nature continue to resonate in this work. I’m

so grateful to follow her.

Welcome.

Hon. Jagrup Brar : I would also like to welcome Kamal Sharma. He’s here somewhere in the gallery. He

has made exceptional contributions to the Indian art and culture.

Oh, he’s there.

Our community is better because of his contributions, so I want to welcome him and

his wife to this House and ask the House to please make him feel welcome.

I also would like to…. My chief of staff, Patrick Meehan — it’s his 50th birthday.

He’s a great guy. He’s done a huge contribution to the province during the last 50

years. I wish him next 50 years. Our community is better because of his contributions.

I would like to ask the House to wish him a happy 50th birthday.

Steve Kooner : I’d also like to welcome Kamal Sharma, who I’ve known since I was about 13 years

old, visiting his video store on Victoria Drive.

Music was a big part of my family growing up, because my dad sang many hit songs in

the ’80s. Kamal Sharma has been at the forefront of music, bringing musical concerts

here to the Lower Mainland.

I have known Kamal Sharma for approximately 30 years. It’s a great honour to know

him. Every time I meet him, he always has a sound piece of advice for me. He’s a great

community contributor.

Amna Shah : I would like to acknowledge and potentially welcome, as well, the family of our lovely

Artour Sogomonian, who may be potentially watching online.

I just want to say that I know they are going to be very proud today. We certainly

are as well. We really appreciate Artour’s guidance and sage advice, and we are so

excited for him today.

Please join me in acknowledging Artour.

Hon. Niki Sharma : I did not know that Kamal Sharma and his lovely wife were going to be here today.

I would be remiss if I didn’t jump in to say to a fellow Sharma: welcome to the Legislature.

It’s just an honour for you to be here. Thanks for all you do for spreading culture

and joy in our province.

[10:25 a.m.]

Speaker’s Statement

Removal of Legislature Cat

from Speaker’s Office

The Speaker : Members, I don’t think you have ever seen the Chair standing up and making a point

of privilege in the House.

Yesterday afternoon someone made an unauthorized entry to my office. It’s my paws-itively

solemn duty to inform you of a fur-midable incident. Our official parliamentary cat,

Macey Hansard, has been catnapped from my office.

This is a purr-plexing situation and not to be taken lightly. I trust that the catnapper

responsible for this action will do the honourable thing and return Macey no later

than 12 meoon today. Macey has two baby kittens, and they were crying all night.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members, if you happen to know a member for Abbotsford South, please ensure that

he does everything so that this does not turn into a full-blown catastrophe. Thank

you.

Introduction and

First Reading of Bills

Bill 15 — Infrastructure Projects Act

Hon. Bowinn Ma presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor: a bill

intituled Infrastructure Projects Act, 2025.

Hon. Bowinn Ma : Hon. Speaker, given Azalea’s affinity for your cats, I was a little worried that

it was her.

I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now.

I’m pleased to introduce Bill 15, the Infrastructure Projects Act, which has two primary

objectives.

First, it provides the new Ministry of Infrastructure with the powers to carry out

its roles and responsibilities for policy development, planning, procurement, delivery

and oversight expertise for major provincial public sector capital projects such as

schools, hospitals and post-secondary institutions. It will also enable the ministry

to deliver projects for health authorities, school districts and post-secondary institutions

on a project-by-project basis.

Secondly, the act provides the province with additional tools to support the acceleration

of two categories of designated infrastructure projects — category 1 projects, such

as Ministry of Infrastructure projects and other ministry projects; and category 2

projects, which are provincially significant projects that provide economic, environmental

or social benefits to British Columbia.

Category 2 projects and the tools they would be able to access would be designated

by the Lieutenant Governor in Council on a case-by-case basis and would include projects

delivered by entities outside of government, including Crown corporations, local governments,

First Nations and the private sector.

The majority of the tools allow for expediting provincial permitting, including an

alternative environmental assessment process. There are also tools to help streamline

local government permitting.

All of the tools are predicated on partnership and collaboration opportunities, either

between the project proponent and local government approval authorities or between

provincial permitting ministries. Notably, none of these tools will change the quality

or rigour of permitting or requirements or obligations related to the declaration

on the rights of Indigenous Peoples.

I am pleased to table these amendments to streamline and expedite provincial and local

approvals and allow the ministry to lead coordination of planning across ministries

to ensure that government planning and resources are well coordinated, cost-effective

and efficient.

I would also like to inform the House that the government considers this bill a matter

of confidence.

The Speaker : Members, the question is first reading of the bill.

Motion approved.

[10:30 a.m.]

Hon. Bowinn Ma : I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the

next sitting of the House after today.

Motion approved.

Members’ Statements

Charity Fundraising by Dawson Creek

Chapter of 100 Women Who Care

Larry Neufeld : I stand in this place of honour today to recognize and celebrate the extraordinary

community leadership and generosity embodied by the 100 Women Who Care, Dawson Creek

chapter. This remarkable group of women, affiliated with the global 100 Who Care Alliance,

has created a powerful grassroots movement in the Peace region, one that is transforming

lives through collective giving.

Since its founding in 2016, the Dawson Creek

chapter has raised over $208,000 for

14 local charities, ranging from seniors services to youth programs, mental wellness

and emergency response, and all of this through a simple yet profound model. Each

member donates $100 twice a year, and together they choose a charity to support. The

result is swift, direct and impactful funding where it is needed most. Their model

exemplifies the best of rural philanthropy: low barrier, high impact and deeply rooted

in community values.

These women are not just donors; they are leaders, mentors and champions for a stronger,

more connected Dawson Creek. Any time when small non-profits struggle to secure timely

funding, the 100 Women Who Care initiative fills critical gaps and uplifts our most

vulnerable. They remind us that community resilience doesn’t come from the top down.

It grows from the ground up, one act of kindness at a time.

Let us honour these women, not only for what they give but for the example they set

for all of us.

Day of Mourning for Workers

Darlene Rotchford : Monday, April 28, marked the National Day of Mourning, a solemn occasion to reflect

on the lives lost due to work-related injuries and occupational illness.

In 2024, 146 British Columbians died as a result of workplace injuries or diseases.

Of those, 78 succumbed to occupational illness, including 37 individuals who lost

their lives to asbestos-related disease; 30 workers died in motor vehicle incidents;

and 38 lives were claimed by traumatic injuries such as falls from heights or being

struck by objects.

I offer my deepest condolences to the families, co-workers and friends who have lost

someone due to work-related injuries and to those who continue to suffer. Having worked

in health care myself as an addiction recovery worker, I understand firsthand the

lasting impact workplace injuries can leave on an individual and their families.

Ensuring health and safety of all workers must be a shared responsibility in this

House. Together we must continue to strengthen prevention, education and enforcement

of workplace health and safety standards across all sectors. Quite frankly, safety

brings first aid to the uninjured.

To every worker across the province: I see you, I hear you, and we stand with you

for your right to a safe and healthy workplace.

Journey to Freedom Day

and Vietnamese Canadians

Brent Chapman : As mentioned yesterday, it was Journey to Freedom Day. In the Hall of Honour, I received

a beautiful medal from members of B.C.’s Vietnamese community. Think of it. On a day

that should have honoured their noble struggle, they honoured the Premier, the Energy

Minister, a number of other MLAs and myself with freedom medals.

A lot was said about many things, but no one talked about why so many risked everything

to escape Vietnam after the war was over. The first wave of departures was the 140,000

southerners during the fall of Saigon in 1975, but smaller numbers continued to leave

— many in small, rickety boats that landed in neighbouring countries. In 1977, approximately

15,000 Vietnamese boat people had arrived in Southeast Asian countries. By the end

of the following year, the number reached alarming levels, quadrupling to 62,000.

Why did they keep leaving? Communism. What was so bad about communism in Vietnam?

From Montreal professor Christopher Goscha, when the communists from the North arrived,

the media, schools and religious institutions were brought under government control.

Newspapers were shut down, and the government started keeping records of who attended

religious services, especially Christians. Some religious buildings were closed or

required to place portraits of Ho Chi Minh on their altars.

[10:35 a.m.]

The government also burned books it felt were not supportive of the revolution and

replaced many teachers in the south with more loyal teachers from the north.

Of course, with communism comes re-education. For soldiers and high-ranking officials

in the South Vietnam government and anyone else viewed with suspicion, re-education

was longer and more severe. Some spent several years in camps, subjected to torture,

brainwashing and forced hard labour. In total, about one million people in former

South Vietnam were subjected to re-education. Some who were taken away to the camps

were never seen again.

Let us always remember the courageous struggle of the brave Vietnamese Canadians and

all they bless us with, and let us never forget what forced them to risk so much.

National Volunteer Week

Amshen / Joan Phillip : It is my pleasure to rise today to recognize National Volunteer Week, which is celebrated

across Canada from April 27 to May 3.

Countless people in British Columbia volunteer their time and energy every day. Especially

during these challenging times when more and more families and individuals are relying

on community services and non-profits around them, volunteers are a vital source of

support. They make our communities a very special place to live. This year’s theme“Volunteers

make waves” reflects on the fact that each volunteer’s contribution positively impacts

our communities, whether it’s in powerful waves or in quiet ripples.

Volunteers are essential to the functioning of non-profits and charities. They do

the heavy lifting and fight for change. They build friendship and trust, one conversation

and heart at a time. They connect people in their communities to life-changing supports

and achieve meaningful outcomes every day.

When we work together, we create a stronger and more hopeful British Columbia. Please

celebrate National Volunteer Week with me and thank these incredible people for their

generosity and dedication.

I would also like to commemorate the loss of Downtown Eastside advocate Trey Helton,

who started out as a volunteer and worked at the overdose protection services in the

Downtown Eastside. We lost a son to carfentanil, and I know that the work that Trey

did saved lives. I lift my hands up to his legacy and for those that mourn him.

Will the House please join me in applauding the volunteers in our province.

Huy ch q’u siem.

Protection of Eagleridge Lands

on North Shore

Jeremy Valeriote : I am pleased to rise today to celebrate the protection of an extraordinary part of

the North Shore Mountains landscape.

Earlier this month the district of West Vancouver dedicated the Eagleridge Lands,

966 acres of rugged forest above the Upper Levels Highway, as a protected public park.

This is an area nearly twice the size of Stanley Park. It comes after the district

partnered with the B.C. Parks Foundation in 2024 and separately this year concluded

a density transfer deal for 262 acres with British Properties.

The company will now build a compact community of about 3,700 housing units on Cypress

Bowl Road. Cypress Village, to be built over 20 years, will replace the original plan

for single-family homes sprawling up to the 1,200-foot contour line from the Capilano

River watershed in the east to the Sea to Sky Highway in the west.

This is an outcome that follows decades of discussion, negotiation and planning by

West Vancouver staff, volunteers and elected officials. Credit should also be given

to British Properties, which is forgoing property rights acquired 95 years ago so

that environmental and recreational assets so highly valued by the community can be

preserved.

Mr. Speaker, I would invite you and any member of this House to join me on a visit

to Eagleridge Bluffs, perhaps the most spectacular and rewarding hike in the Lower

Mainland. Depending on how much energy you have, we could ascend 1,000 metres from

Horseshoe Bay or, maybe more easily, approach from Cypress lodge up Black Mountain.

[10:40 a.m.]

It’s important to reflect on how far we’ve come. The alternative scenario of housing

sprawl across the North Shore mountainside is now seen as unacceptable. Complete,

compact communities are a solution to many problems, and I really want to recognize

the district of West Vancouver for the foresight and courage to protect this important

landscape for generations to come.

Service of Health Care Workers

Sunita Dhir : Last Saturday what was meant to be a joyful celebration, the Lapu-Lapu Festival,

turned into a tragedy that shook our community to its core. In the face of chaos and

grief, our health care workers stepped up once again. Nurses, doctors, paramedics,

therapists, hospital staff and volunteers put themselves on the line, treating the

wounded, calming the frightened and acting quickly to save lives.

As we mark May 1, National Physicians Day, we pay special tribute to our doctors,

whose leadership and expertise guide us through our darkest moments. This day is also

a time to honour the entire health care team — united, tireless and unwavering in

their commitment.

Just as Lapu-Lapu stood to protect his people, you all showed the same spirit of courage

and service. You are modern-day heroes, defenders not with weapons but with compassion

and care.

Heroism isn’t always loud. Sometimes it’s a nurse comforting a child, a doctor working

through exhaustion or a counsellor helping someone process trauma. You remind us that

healing comes in many forms, and you deliver it with heart and skill.

Behind the scenes, janitors, lab technicians, administrators and food service workers

keep everything running.

You may not wear scrubs, but you are no less essential.

And to the families of all the health care workers: thank you for your quiet strength

and sacrifice.

To those who are injured: we wish you healing.

To those who we lost: we carry your memory. May you rest in peace.

To all who answered the call on Saturday: thank you. We see you, we honour you, and

we will never forget what you do for us all.

Oral Questions

Speculation and Vacancy Tax

Rosalyn Bird : The speculation and vacancy tax was supposed to target empty homes and wealthy investors,

not destroy lives.

Maureen is a senior, a jazz singer and a single mother who has lived in her Victoria

home for 13 years. One technical form error and a delayed tax return has resulted

in the receipt of a $110,000 bill that she cannot afford and a lien against her primary

and only residence. She is now on medication to manage her stress as she continues

to receive collections calls.

Will the minister commit to halting unfair enforcement and review this practice so

that seniors can stay in their homes and not be crushed by a tax that was never meant

for them?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : There are many opportunities for people to avoid paying this tax if it’s not properly

attracted to them. I’m not familiar with what happened in this case, but I’m very

happy to meet with the member to learn more about this case and to work for a resolution.

Thank you for bringing it.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Rosalyn Bird : I appreciate that, Minister. My understanding is that your office has been informed.

Maureen filed an appeal. She was told that she may not hear back for months. Meanwhile,

the interest and the stress continue to pile up. Why months for an appeal? Because

the appeals office has stated that there are thousands of people in her exact situation.

Can the minister confirm that there is a growing trend in B.C. of people who are appealing

the exemption from this tax?

[10:45 a.m.]

Hon. Brenda Bailey : The speculation and vacancy tax is designed so people can very easily opt out of

it. We also communicate by letter to ensure that people are aware of it. For folks

who do make the error and don’t file appropriately, we do have a process.

Again, I’m very happy to work with the member opposite. It’s important that we support

people and ensure that the right outcomes are reached.

Hon Chan : Tony is a senior in Richmond who has lived in his fully paid-off home for decades.

The home is solely in his name. His wife does not own it, and they have always kept

their finances separate. But because his wife earned incomes out of Canada, the NDP

government is now billing him over $100,000 in retroactive speculation tax, with interest

still occurring.

Can the minister explain how it is fair to punish a retired man who has lived full-time

in his home for decades by forcing him to pay over $100,000?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Again, the speculation and vacancy tax is designed to help bring additional housing

into our market. We are in a housing crisis. We are bringing many tools in order to

ensure that people can find a place to live.

If folks are attracting the speculation tax and it’s not correct, there are tools

for us to make those corrections. Any individual cases that the member opposite or

any other members are aware of that they would like to bring to my attention, I’m

open and very happy to meet with them.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Hon Chan : It is quite clear that the minister is not paying attention to her own ministry.

This case has been brought forward to this government multiple times, and even media

has reported on this, including my former media company.

Let me lay this out again. Tony has owned this home for decades. He is a long-time

Richmond resident. He has contributed to this province for years, and now he is finally

retired. Yet this government is forcing him to pay over $100,000 in spec tax on the

very home he lived in for decades, and interest is still occurring, going up.

Tony is clearly not a speculator. Why is this government punishing long-term seniors

in this province? How is this fair?

Hon. Brenda Bailey : The speculation and vacancy tax is, in fact, fair. It is designed very carefully

to ensure fairness.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh, Members.

Hon. Brenda Bailey : I can’t comment on the specifics of this case. I’m not familiar, but I’m very happy

to sit down with the member and go through it.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members, let’s hear the minister. Thank you.

Telus Health Services Contract

and Programs for

Adults with Eating Disorders

Jeremy Valeriote : In 2023, Island Health awarded a two-year contract to Telus Health to provide virtual

service for adults with eating disorders on Vancouver Island. Persons with lived and

living experience were not consulted prior to this contract award. They raised serious

concerns about the implementation and impacts to privacy.

We recently learned that this contract is not being renewed. Privatization of health

care is a serious concern, especially when there is no reliable continuity of care.

What programs and services are in place to provide care to adults with eating disorders

on southern Vancouver Island now that the Telus Health contract has not been renewed?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question and for bringing up a very serious subject

around the impact of privatization on our health care system, something that this

government takes incredibly seriously.

It’s incredibly important we uphold the principles in the Canada Health Act and understand

exactly how our public health care system delivers care to people. These are principles

and values that this government will protect fiercely. We’re going to continue to

take action to strengthen that public health care system. We’re going to continue

to take action on inappropriate use of privatized health care systems.

One thing this government will never do is something that I know that the opposition

has expressed their interest in, and that is bringing in an American-style, two-tier

public health care system into this….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh, Members.

The member has a supplemental.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh, Members.

[10:50 a.m.]

LifeLabs Labour Dispute and Delivery

of Medical Laboratory Services

Jeremy Valeriote : I appreciate that in this country, we proudly uphold our commitment to public health

care. But in B.C., the creep towards privatization is happening under our noses and

with the public purse.

LifeLabs, an essential health service, is now owned by Quest Diagnostics, a for-profit

American company reporting first-quarter earnings of $2.65 billion, a 12 percent increase

over last year. Meanwhile, LifeLabs employees have been striking for over two months,

due to insufficient wages and staffing challenges.

American Fortune 500 companies should not be profiting from the delivery of essential health care

services in B.C., especially while those providing the services are not receiving

fair wages and we are pursuing a strong call for British Columbians to Buy B.C.

To the Premier, what is the government’s plan to ensure public dollars stay in the

public health care system?

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you again to the member for the question.

I want to assure him that we are always going to be taking action to ensure that health

care services are available for people when they need them and where they need them.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members.

Hon. Josie Osborne : Now, in the case of medical services….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members. Members, come to order.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members.

Members, the Minister of Health has the floor.

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

LifeLabs has been providing services to British Columbians for the past 56 years.

We have a contract with LifeLabs that goes until 2031. It would cost taxpayers hundreds

of millions of dollars if we were going to take away resources like this from front-line

services, but we know that we have to continue to work with health care workers to

ensure that those lab services are there for people. It is a federal government responsibility

to review sales like this, like when the sale of LifeLabs to Quest took place.

We’re going to continue to ensure that LifeLabs is compliant with their contract.

but we will continue to do everything that we can to ensure that health care is delivered

by Canadians here and by those people who move to our country — who have done so from

places like the Philippines, from places like the U.K., from places like the U.S.

— health care workers that come here to serve the people in British Columbia and to

help us stay healthy and well.

Government Response to Concerns of

B.C. Residents Supportive of

Separation from Canada

Dallas Brodie : According to a recent poll, the number of British Columbians wanting B.C. to leave

Canada has grown from 20 to 28 percent in a little over one year. Two weeks ago the

Premier said that he hates this discussion and that he wants it to stop. These anxieties

are real. With the election of Mark Carney, concerns may continue to grow.

Will the Premier commit to acknowledging and engaging in meaningful consultation with

this growing community about how to restore their hope in the future of this province

and in our great country?

Hon. David Eby : I am very excited to work with the new Prime Minister of Canada, Mark Carney, on

what he is saying about his commitment to trade corridors, to energy corridors, to

supporting clean energy.

It’s consistent with the bill that was recently introduced to the House from the Minister

of Energy around our electricity system here in the province, our support for the

province of Alberta to help them decarbonize, our support to the Yukon and our support

to major projects here to reduce carbon pollution and grow our economy.

His support for critical minerals and mining and the mining proposals we have going

forward, the new mines we’re opening here in the province and his commitment to make

sure people get the training that they need are very consistent with our government’s

commitment to ensure that people are trained for the jobs of the future but, most

importantly, with his commitment to all Canadians that we are going to stand on our

own two feet, that we will not be apologists to Donald Trump and his 51st-state agenda.

What we’re seeing are people who want to flee the United States and come to Canada.

We want to welcome them here. We want to stand strong as an independent and sovereign

country, and I look forward to working with the Prime Minister and all my colleagues

across Canada on that.

[10:55 a.m.]

The Speaker : Member has a supplemental.

Dallas Brodie : There were no apologies made by me there. The Premier says he supports Team Canada

but has done nothing to address the greatest threats to our unity — political interference

by the Chinese Communist Party; the fragmentation of B.C. by over 200 bands, each

asserting its own sovereignty; and the strangulation of our economy by powerful U.S.-funded

environmental groups and other hostile powers that are active in B.C.

British Columbians are losing hope, so I ask again: will the Premier engage in meaningful

consultation with this critical group of people in British Columbia?

Hon. David Eby : This member’s incoherent and consistently racist posturing in this House against

Indigenous and First Nations that do, in fact, have rights and sovereignty in this

province….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Hon. David Eby : Shame on me? Her promotion of residential schools denial, her denial of the sovereignty

of First Nations and the rights of First Nations in this province continues now. It

is disgusting and appalling. It advances us not one degree in growing our economy

or in ensuring we’re working with First Nations. What it does do is it drives wedges.

It reduces our growth. It reduces our prosperity. It hurts people in real ways, making

sure that jobs are not available.

I ask the member to refrain from her hateful rhetoric, to step back and reflect on

the impact of her very real words as a leader in the community. It is disgraceful.

I understand why people in her community have put up signs that say: “She is not my

MLA.”

Speculation and Vacancy Tax

Scott McInnis : The NDP’s speculation and vacancy tax was meant to target empty homes and wealthy

investors. This government is demanding retroactive payments, placing liens on homes

and using negative-option-billing tactics against people who’ve done nothing wrong

and who are barely getting by, just trying to pay their bills and to stay in their

homes.

Has this NDP Premier ordered a review of who’s being unfairly targeted with the spec

tax? It is our understanding, on this side of the House, that seniors and everyday

homeowners are being slapped with six-figure bills.

Hon. David Eby : The Conservatives have been against the speculation and vacancy tax since day one.

This is a tax that has had a very significant and important impact on a terrible problem

we had in the province. We had people buying homes as investments and leaving them

vacant…

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members. Members.

Member for…

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members, come….

Member.

The Premier will continue.

Hon. David Eby : …in the middle of a housing crisis. When we introduced the tax, here’s what we saw.

We saw hundreds and hundreds of homes go up for rent — to rent to families, to rent

to students, to rent to seniors — that were previously vacant.

You can avoid this tax entirely by doing one of two things. One is paying your taxes

in British Columbia. The other is renting out your vacant house.

Twenty thousand homes were brought back onto the market. That’s not our data; that’s

independent data.

Like any tax policy that requires filing, people are going to have challenges. That’s

why we set up systems so that people can ensure that they’re able to appeal, they’re

able to file their paperwork. But this is the easiest tax in the world to avoid. In

fact, we want people to avoid it.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Hon. David Eby : Pay your taxes in B.C.; rent out your vacant home. It’s not too much to ask, I guess,

unless you’re a Conservative.

Housing Taxation Policies

Á’a :líya Warbus : Respectfully, based on those comments, it should be easy for citizens to avoid penalties

under this tax regime. But what we’re canvassing on this side of the House are many

examples that are reaching not just our offices but offices of the opposition and

that say it’s not as easy as you claim.

[11:00 a.m.]

David Steingard is a land developer trying to build affordable housing. He is a part

of the solution in this crisis and not the problem. He bought a property, and now

the Ministry of Finance is retroactively claiming it was worth more than it actually

was at the time of purchase and demanding $12,000 in extra tax.

Instead of tax relief encouraging market growth, under this government, people face

penalties and punishment. He has reached out to his MLA, the Minister of Forests,

five times and hasn’t heard back.

Will the Minister of Finance commit…?

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members, shhh. Please. Let the member ask a question. Let the member ask a question.

Á’a :líya Warbus : Will the Minister of Finance commit to the urgent call for review of these tax processes,

which only seem to add to housing costs and uncertainty, and work with advocates that

are calling for this immediately?

Hon. David Eby : I won’t let the members pretend that this is concern about the appeals process, because

the Conservatives have been opposed to the speculation and vacancy tax since day one.

They campaigned against it during the election. They’re still opposed to it now.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members, let the Premier finish the answer, please.

Hon. David Eby : They want people to be able to buy homes and leave them vacant as investments again.

Well, we will not stand for that. The Leader of the Opposition….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members.

Member for Surrey-Cloverdale, come to order.

Hon. David Eby : In this House, he spoke against this tax, which has lowered rents and increased the

availability of rental housing for people, calling it a tax grab and an asset tax.

This is a tax that is working to open homes. Any member on that side that has a question

about how the appeals process works or how their constituents….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members.

Hon. David Eby : It doesn’t work if you’re not paying your taxes or if you’re leaving your property

vacant. That’s absolutely true. It’s not supposed to work. It’s not supposed to exempt

people who leave homes vacant. It’s not supposed to exempt people who don’t pay their

taxes in British Columbia.

One additional point.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members.

Hon. David Eby : My colleague, the Minister of Forests….

Interjection.

The Speaker : Member, how many times does the Chair have to remind you to be quiet, please?

Hon. David Eby : In addition to the array of incorrect allegations that have been brought, my colleague

the Minister of Forests met with this individual. I encourage the member to withdraw.

Government Housing Policies

Linda Hepner : As the government fills this province with supportive housing and government-managed

rental properties and programs, the next generation is being robbed of a pathway to

build equity and to plan for their future.

I have five grandchildren who don’t have a hope of ever buying into this housing market.

It’s no wonder we are seeing the largest exodus of young people leaving British Columbia

for other parts of Canada.

How can this minister justify killing the dream of home ownership and driving young

families out of British Columbia?

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : I appreciate the member’s question. We’ve spent 16 hours debating this over the last

two days.

There are a couple of things in that question. First, the member makes an assertion

about us putting supportive housing in communities. The member knows that when the

member was the mayor of Surrey, she asked the province for more supportive housing.

In fact, when she left and other communities were struggling with it, she went on

CBC and said to all the other mayors: “You’ve got to do the brave thing. You’ve got

to put supportive housing in your community. It’s important to make sure people are

indoors. I know it’s difficult. I know it’s not easy, but that’s the right thing to

do.” That’s what the member said on CBC, on radio, ensuring that all mayors understand

that this is an important thing. To hear the member now suggest that we shouldn’t

be having it, I think, is very unfortunate.

Now, we are seeing record numbers, historic numbers of housing units come online.

We are, in fact, for the last four years, at the highest housing starts we’ve seen

in this country, in this province, since 1955. In fact, the last four years have been

the highest investment in direct affordable housing in the history of this province.

We’re going to continue to open housing units in communities across this province.

At the same time, we’re going to support the private sector to be able to build more

housing.

[11:05 a.m.]

This is the way forward. We have the model. The federal government is copying our

model. That’s a good thing. Other provinces are looking to see what British Columbia

is doing, and we’re going to continue to do this work as we go forward.

Larry Neufeld : The NDP’s housing policies have become a blizzard of taxes, bans, delays and design

mandates. It is no wonder developers are walking away bankrupt and leaving families

stuck renting.

To the Minister of Housing, please explain how this patchwork of overreach has done

anything except make it harder to buy and build.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : I find this line of questioning unbelievable. The opposition has rhetoric: “Cut red

tape to build more housing. Get government out of the way.” But when it comes to actual

policies, they have no idea about how to advance it.

When we said we want to allow for people to build three or four units of a single-family

lot so they don’t have to go through a lengthy process to get approvals, they’re silent.

They think it’s a bad idea. But when they go outside, they say: “Oh, government just

needs to get out of the way.”

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : Oh? The Leader of the Opposition now is talking about affordable housing. He now

wants to chime in. I am happy to talk for 16 more hours about this.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh, Members.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : They have the gall to stand in this place and talk about affordable housing for families.

I have their entire housing platform in here. I know this hurts.

Interjections.

[The Speaker rose.]

The Speaker : Shhh, Members. Let him finish.

[The Speaker resumed their seat.]

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : I know this hurts. I went through this entire document. Not a mention of investing

in affordable housing. Not a mention of investing in affordable housing. So excuse

me if I’m a little cynical about the rhetoric that comes from the other side, because

their words don’t meet their actions.

Building Code Energy Regulations

for New Housing Units

Macklin McCall : This week we have learned that this NDP government is abandoning its climate goals.

The step code and endless new mandates have become just another tax on home building,

making home ownership unattainable. This code adds $70,000 per new-built unit for

minimal difference in energy efficiency.

Will the minister finally bring some sanity to the step code and stop treating it

like a one-size-fits-all tax on home ownership?

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : I know the member is new to this place, but if he wants to know where the origin

of the step code came from, he should maybe talk to his own leader. The work on the

step code actually started under Christy Clark and Rich Coleman when he was the Minister

of Housing. That’s when it originated.

Interjections.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : Oh, no, the member is right. They are not here right now. But guess who is? Their

leader is still here. He was a cabinet minister at the time.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh, Members.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : The member for Kelowna-Mission, whose ambition is to be the next Kevin Falcon of

this building, has decided to pipe in as well.

The step code is an important piece. It was started under Christy Clark and under

Rich Coleman and their work here, because they realized that through the step code,

you can get more energy efficiency done. This is not a new thing. This is not a new

thing. It started under the previous government, and the work continues.

If the members are concerned about seismic, are they going to be prepared to stand

up and change the code to allow for building on soil that potentially could cause

damage during earthquakes? No, they’re not. No, they’re not. So all the rhetoric here

does not match any of their actions. I am happy to talk about this as long as members

want.

The Speaker : Thank you.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : But it is vitally important that we continue to build housing in this province, we

continue to support young families. At the same time, yes, we can address climate

change.

Government Action on

Affordable Housing

Lorne Doerkson : Talk about rhetoric. For those people that are $200 away from potential insolvency,

I don’t think these answers are giving any comfort at all. The minister has claimed

that rents are declining, but that only comes after eight years of outrageous increases.

You can’t take $1,000 more a month from families and expect applause for giving back

$50.

[11:10 a.m.]

Does the government really believe that this government deserves credit for the affordability

in this province?

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : It’s remarkable, again, the line of questioning today. We have taken steps to bring

in a speculation tax that says to people that if….

Interjection.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : If the Whip has questions, he can get up too. I can do this all day long. This is

a good exchange. I’m happy to be having this discussion.

The member talks about the speculation and vacancy tax. All you have to do is rent

the property and pay taxes here, and you don’t have to pay it.

How can you oppose that, friends? When you have people in your community that are

looking for housing, how do you stand there and look them in the eye and say: “You

know what? We’re going to scrap that policy.” You can’t do that. You can’t do that

in a community.

If you have a housing platform like they did, that didn’t mention investing in affordable

housing…. Then they get up in this House and say: “Well, where’s the affordable housing?”

We are making historic levels of investments in all of the communities of this member.

I get it. They come in here, and they say one thing. And then when the ribbons are

being cut and people are moving into their housing, they’ll be in the front, wanting

to get their pictures.

We are taking steps. We’re taking important steps. Yes, rents are starting to come

down. But we have a lot more work to do, and we’re going to continue to do it, whether

they support it or not.

Comments by Cabinet Members on

Issues Currently Before Courts

Peter Milobar : You know, time and again as the official opposition, unfortunately, in this House,

we have to be the voice for people that no longer have that voice, be it when a child

is killed under government care…. We bring those cases forward to this House.

The answers back from the ministers are repeatedly: “I can’t talk about that. It’s

in front of the courts.” When we talk to this government and bring forward cases of

seniors that are killed in care, the answers back from the ministers are: “I can’t

talk about that. It’s before the courts. It wouldn’t be appropriate.” Apparently,

those ministers don’t want to compromise things going on in the courts. One can assume

that’s partly the direction of the government and the Attorney General that has provided

that advice.

Over the last few days in this House, the opposition has been canvassing the complete

collapse of our mental health systems and systemic problems in mental health services

in British Columbia. The Premier has chosen to try to deflect away and focus solely

on the horrific events of what unfolded on Saturday. Yes, it was murder. The Premier

thinks we’re afraid to say that word in this House. We’re not.

But I will point out that the Premier has held very strong opinions on what should

happen in this case that’s before the courts. However, yesterday he said: “So I’ll

ask the member and others to reserve judgment about what happened and let that process

play out.”

Now, the Premier is not just any person with an opinion. He’s the Premier of the province.

He’s also a lawyer. He’s the former head of the B.C. Civil Liberties Association,

and he’s also a former Attorney General. So the Premier can’t honestly stand in this

House and think that his opinion would be considered the same as the people that sit

around and have a coffee at a Tim Hortons or an A&W, talking about the world events

going on in the day. It simply doesn’t hold true.

So a simple question to the Premier, based on his ability and his want to weigh in

on very serious matters in front of the legal system, especially with an unknown charting

of where this government is going with involuntary care or not, the Mental Health

Act or not…. There are actually mental health agencies now wondering if the Premier

is weighing in on issues like this so forcefully.

Have the Premier and the Attorney General now changed direction, and will ministers

now be allowed to actually talk about very serious critical issues going on in front

of their ministries that are in front of the courts, or is that right solely reserved

for the Premier to voice opinions?

Hon. David Eby : The member is well aware that there are actually legal prohibitions on talking about

children who are in care. They were brought in when the Leader of the Opposition sat

around the cabinet table in the previous government. The provisions are in place to

ensure the protection of the privacy of children and their families.

[11:15 a.m.]

Now, for the tragedy at the Lapu-Lapu festival, I struggle to understand the position

of the opposition. My opinion is that the man made the decision to drive a vehicle

into a crowd of children, parents, seniors and volunteers and kill them. He’s facing

eight charges of murder. It’s my opinion that he’s a murderer. It’s my opinion that

he should spend the rest of his life in custody.

Now, I have a high opinion of the independence of our courts, their ability to hear

the evidence, to reach the conclusions that they’re going to reach. I respect whatever

the decision is.

Interjection.

The Speaker : Shhh.

Hon. David Eby : I think he should spend the rest of his life in prison.

Now, I respect the decision of the courts, whatever it will be. But it will not change

my opinion that this man did a despicable thing, did the most hateful thing; that

he ruined the work of thousands of people and traumatized thousands more; that he

stole children from parents, parents from children; and that he should spend the rest

of his life in jail.

If that is a point of controversy in this House between our side and their side, then

so be it. I will stand up for the Filipino community, I will stand up for the victims,

and I will stand up for every right-minded, morally clear British Columbian…

Interjection.

The Speaker : Shhh, Members.

Hon. David Eby : …and say that that man should spend the rest of his goddamn life in jail.

[End of question period.]

Point of Order

John Rustad : I stand on a point of order. The Minister of Health has made a statement which I

believe has misled this House. Unless the Minister of Health can provide evidence

to this House, it should be withdrawn and an apology should be made.

The Speaker : The Chair will recognize the minister if the minister wants to say anything. But

it’s a dispute between the two members; the Chair will not be involved in it.

Hon. Jodie Wickens : I rise on a point of order around

section 40, the member for Kamloops Centre imputing

my motives under the Child, Family and Community Service Act.

The Speaker : The Chair will ask the member for Kamloops Centre if he was impugning the member.

If not, then he can clarify.

Peter Milobar : There is nothing to withdraw. I was simply asking the Premier, who didn’t answer

the question, whether or not ministers will now be free to answer about issues in

front of the court since he is allowed to.

Hon. Ravi Parmar : I rise on a point of order. The House Leader for the official opposition, during

question period, made an accusation that I didn’t meet with a constituent. I can assure

the member across the way that I have met with that constituent. In fact, I ran into

them at Starbucks in Langford not too long ago. My office has provided support to

that constituent.

I recognize that the official opposition has a very challenging job and sometimes

the folks in the basement don’t get everything right, but I would ask the member across

the way to withdraw those remarks.

The Speaker : Minister, thank you for the clarification. It’s a matter of debate, so I will leave

it that way.

Tabling Documents

Hon. Niki Sharma : I have the honour to present the British Columbia Utilities Commission annual report

for 2023-24.

Orders of the Day

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I call Motion 21 on the order paper.

[11:20 a.m.]

Government Motions on Notice

Motion 21 — Permanent Officer

Status for Law Clerk

and Parliamentary Counsel

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I move Motion 21, of which notice has been given in my name on the order paper, seconded

by Á’a:líya Warbus and Rob Botterell.

[That Seunghee Suzie Seo hold the status of a permanent officer in her capacity as Law Clerk and Parliamentary

Counsel, in accordance with

section 39 (1) of the Constitution Act (R.S.B.C. 1996, c. 66).]

The Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel is the Legislative Assembly’s chief legal

officer and is responsible for providing legal and procedural advice, legislative

drafting services and legal services to the Speaker and other presiding officers,

all members and parliamentary committees, the Clerk and the Legislative Assembly administration

departments.

This appointment recognizes both the importance of the role of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary

Counsel to the Legislative Assembly and the significant contributions that Suzie Seo

has brought and continues to bring to the role in support of the work of the Legislative

Assembly and its members.

Á’a :líya Warbus : I rise today in support of Motion 21.

As House Leader for the official opposition, I have the privilege of working closely

with the office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel. It’s with deep appreciation

that I rise to support this motion recognizing Ms. Suzie Seo as a permanent officer

of the Legislative Assembly.

In the chamber, we talk a lot about integrity and leadership and the rule of law.

Ms. Seo embodies each of those principles, and the advice is often measured, timely

and delivered with a clear commitment to uphold the rights and responsibilities of

all members.

Her presence at the table is only a small part of the role she plays. Much of Ms.

Seo’s impact is seen in the quiet professionalism with which she supports all of our

members. She protects parliamentary privilege and ensures our processes reflect both

legal precision and institutional respect.

I can personally say that her support of our caucus and to me as House Leader has

been very thoughtful and balanced. She’s been grounded in a deep understanding of

this House and the traditions.

You have my sincere respect. I want to offer congratulations.

It’s my honour to second the motion to Ms. Seo’s permanent appointment that reflects

the trust and confidence she’s earned across the assembly and the essential nature

of her contributions to our democratic institution.

[Applause.]

The Speaker : Members, the question is adoption of the motion.

Motion approved.

Hon. Mike Farnworth : It’s now my pleasure to call Motion 22 on the order paper.

Motion 22 — Appointment of Deputy

Clerk of the Legislative Assembly

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I move Motion 22, which notice has been given in my name on the order paper, seconded

by Á’a:líya Warbus and Rob Botterell.

[That Artour Sogomonian be appointed Deputy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly and hold the status of a permanent

officer, in accordance with

section 39 (1) of the Constitution Act (R.S.B.C. 1996, c. 66).]

Artour in his current role, Clerk Assistant, is responsible for providing procedural

advice and services to the Speaker and other presiding officers, all members and parliamentary

committees.

I have no doubt that many members are already aware of Artour’s diligent work and

contributions to this House and the Legislative Assembly. This appointment recognizes

both the importance of the role of the Deputy Clerk to the Legislative Assembly, as

well as the vital role that Artour plays in support of that work of this House, the

Legislative Assembly and its members.

Congratulations.

Á’a :líya Warbus : I rise again, in support of this motion, with deep respect for the appointment of

Mr. Artour Sogomonian as Deputy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly.

In my capacity, I’ve had the privilege of working very closely with Mr. Sogomonian,

and he is a professional. He has a ton of knowledge. He’s so gracious and generous

with his time with everyone. Whether it’s early in the morning or late in the evening,

he’s always ready to assist our members with thoughtful, balanced and practical guidance.

[11:25 a.m.]

He respects the boundaries of the role while embodying the highest standards of service.

He’s deeply committed to this institution and the principles of good governance, and

he stands well for it. His calm, steady presence has become a trusted fixture for

so many of us navigating the procedures and the incredible pace of this chamber. He’s

been instrumental in guiding me and the assembly through important operational changes

that we’ve all faced this session.

As the Clerk Assistant, he’s responsible for overseeing parliamentary services, and

he’s helped modernize how supports are delivered to the members and caucus offices

alike, quietly improving systems that make our work more accessible, responsive and

effective.

As I came into my role, new to the House Leader position, I was always able to go

to Artour, be welcomed with snacks and a smile and some comfort on how busy the days

can be and guided in the proper direction, knowing that his advice is very sound.

This appointment, for me and this side of the House, is more than appropriate and

overdue.

I’m so honoured to second the motion recognizing Mr. Sogomonian as a permanent officer

of the Legislative Assembly.

[Applause.]

The Speaker : The question is adoption of the motion.

Motion approved.

Speaker’s Statement

Recognition of Service to

Legislature by Seunghee Suzie Seo

and Artour Sogomonian

The Speaker : Members, although the Chair does not provide comments on motions or other business

before the House, I want to take this opportunity, on behalf of the presiding officers,

to recognize both Suzie and Artour on their very well-deserved appointments. Their

years of service and support of this institution and all of its members has been exceptional.

It is a pleasure for me on behalf of our presiding officers — our Deputy Speaker,

the member for Vancouver-Kensington; our Assistant Deputy Speaker, the member for

Cariboo-Chilcotin; and the Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole, the member for Nanaimo-Lantzville

— to extend our warm congratulations and sincere thanks to both of you.

[Applause.]

Hon. Mike Farnworth : Before I call the business for the day, I would like to inform the House that the

government has introduced the last of the legislation that we intend to pass this

session. I would also like to inform the House at this time that Bills 9, 10 and 12

will not be debated this spring but will be considered at second reading when we return

in the fall.

With that, in this chamber, I call continued debate for the estimates of the Ministry

of Housing.

In the Douglas Fir Room,

Section A, I call committee stage on Bill 5.

In

Section C, the Birch Room, I call continued committee stage debate on Bill 7.

The House in Committee,

Section B.

The committee met at 11:30 a.m.

[Lorne Doerkson in the chair.]

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of

Housing and Municipal Affairs

(continued)

The Chair : Members, we are going to recognize the Government House Leader.

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I had misspoke earlier. In the Douglas Fir Room, it should be the estimates for the

Ministry of Water, Land and Resources, otherwise known as WLRS, and not Bill 5.

The Chair : Thank you very much for that clarity.

Good morning, Members. We will call this chamber back to order.

On Vote 33: ministry operations, $1,513,975,000 (continued) .

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : I just want to put on the record that the MLA from Prince George and I had an exchange

yesterday, and I had made a commitment that I would share some information for the

member. She was able to provide me, about half an hour ago, a property address that

she had some questions about. The address is 3177 McGill Crescent.

The member was asking about engagement that we’ve done, and the member made a suggestion

that B.C. Housing didn’t show up to the September 20, 2024, meeting with the neighbourhood

association, CLBC and Northern Health. The member is, in fact, correct. It was because

it was during the election period. B.C. Housing wasn’t able to attend meetings during

that period. But B.C. Housing has had two other meetings. On February 25, there were

some meetings in the community, as well as a community open house on February 26,

’25.

Hopefully, that answers the member’s questions, but the member knows that she can

reach out to me to have any further questions if there are any.

Rob Botterell : I have a series of questions this morning and this afternoon, and I very much appreciate

the work of the Minister of Housing and the staff of the Ministry of Housing and Municipal

Affairs. I just wanted to start by acknowledging that housing and local government

issues in this province are something that we have all worked on extensively, me more

recently, as they are issues that are top of mind for British Columbians.

I’d like to begin my questions by focusing on renter protections. Renters are among

the hardest hit by the housing crisis and face significant challenges in finding and

keeping homes they can afford. This is a particular issue in B.C., which continues

to have the highest eviction rates in Canada.

[11:35 a.m.]

Furthermore, the 2023 B.C. eviction survey found that 25 percent of overall evictions

end in homelessness. So we have the highest eviction rate, and a quarter of those

evictions end in homelessness.

The question to the minister is: how is your ministry addressing the housing needs

of low-income renters, many of whom are at high risk of eviction and homelessness?

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : I, too, want to appreciate my friend across the way’s advocacy for housing. He’s

very consistent in his advocacy, and I think that’s what people send us here for.

I want to thank him for that, and my office is always open and available to him for

conversations around challenges that may pertain to his community.

Of course, the need to support renters is top of mind for us as a government. I can

share with the member that we’ve taken several steps at the RTB to protect renters,

everything from…. When a proponent or landlord wants to do major renovations to their

building, they now have to apply. That application process ensures that the rents

that are being charged to ensure that they can cover the cost of the renovations are

fair.

The member will know that we last year launched a new digital tool, an online tool

for personal use eviction. We understand that if a mom-and-pop landlord has a place,

they may need that. There are a lot of situations where that is actually a real need

in a person’s home. Family members moving back in…. The list goes on.

To strike a balance between the two, we launched a digital tool which now requires

anyone wanting to use personal use eviction to put some basic information online and

sign or click a disclaimer with an understanding that they’re doing it following the

law. We’ve seen, from that, a significant shift in attitude from folks.

We’ve also ensured that if someone is caught not doing things by the law, there’s

a more significant fine. We did that because people sometimes will say: “Well, it’s

a three-month fine or six-month fine, and the amount of rent we’ll get for increase.

It makes sense to just kick people out anyway, and we can increase the rents.” So

we had to increase that to ensure that there was a barrier there to protect people.

That’s on the RTB side.

The member will also be aware that we now have three months for when a personal use

eviction happens so that families have time to be able to find another place, make

adjustments, because we know that’s a really challenging thing and a stressful thing.

All of these changes were possible because of the good work of my colleague the minister

responsible for tourism, arts and culture and the previous MLA that was in your seat,

Adam Olsen. They worked closely together. I believe my colleague from Courtenay-Comox

was on that committee as well. They did a lot of good work of giving us ideas on how

we can address those challenges, and we have been able to implement a lot of those

changes. So it was an across-party-lines approach and certainly helped a lot of people.

The second piece I would highlight to protect renters is our efforts to increase housing

supply. Increasing housing supply is about giving people who rent or buy some power

in the marketplace.

I believe it’s a supply-and-demand measure. If there’s a limited supply, the power

is not in the hands of renters, because there are not many options available, and

they don’t have the ability to move. So our efforts to increase housing supply — our

small-scale, multi-unit legislation, our transit-oriented development — are about

giving renters power in the marketplace.

Lastly, we have been making historic investments. I won’t go through all of them,

because the member’s got a lot of questions. But those investments are intended to

help some of those low-income renters that I know the member cares deeply about.

The member will know that we have the Indigenous housing fund, which has made historic

levels of investment in both on- and off-reserve housing in Indigenous communities.

[11:40 a.m.]

We are the only province in the country that is investing in Indigenous housing on

reserve, because we couldn’t wait for the federal government any longer. We have the

community housing fund that has a mix in the building. The member is aware of this.

So 20 percent are shelter rate, so approximately $500 a month rent.

We’ve got 50 percent rent geared to income, so it’s appropriate to people’s income,

in some units that are market. That ensures that the buildings have a mix of people

and a mix of incomes living there. I think it’s healthier for communities to have

that.

Lastly, the rental protection fund is huge. I know the member is a fan of that. He’s

spoken many times about the value of the rental protection fund. This fund, which

is operated by the B.C. Non-Profit Housing Association, the B.C. Co-op Housing Federation

and the Aboriginal Housing Management Association, a $500 million investment from

the province, is to protect renters.

There is nothing more stressful for families than when they see, in front of their

building, a for-sale sign. The ability for our not-for-profit partners to go in, acquire

these buildings, do upgrades to the buildings, protect people and their rents so they

can have stability in their lives has been instrumental. It’s had huge impacts. I’m

really proud of the impacts it’s had. In fact, now it looks like the federal government

is going to scale this to across the country, which is fantastic.

Over 50 percent of the purchases last year of all purpose-built rental buildings in

the province were done by the rental protection fund. That is a significant shift

of housing from the private side to the not-for-profit side.

The positive news for those in the private side is many of those investments…. Some

of them have been REITs, in fact. REITs have said, “You know what? We are going to

get out of this space. We’ll sell this to the not-for-profit space, and we will invest

those dollars in new purpose-built rentals,” because they think that’s a better space

for them to be. So I think it’s a win-win for everyone involved.

There are a whole host more, but other members have got lots of questions, so continue.

Rob Botterell : In looking at the various components the minister has outlined, I’d follow up on

a number of items.

First of all, in relation to the residential tenancy branch, both the B.C. Supreme

Court and the Community Legal Assistance Society of B.C. have raised concerns about

the procedural fairness of the residential tenancy branch in relation to tenants.

So I have two questions.

How will the minister work to improve procedural fairness at the residential tenancy

branch to ensure the rights of tenants are protected?

Secondly, how will the minister improve the timeliness of residential tenancy branch

determinations, and what funding exists to do so?

Elenore Sturko : I would ask permission, please, to make an introduction.

Leave granted.

Introductions by Members

Elenore Sturko : Awesome. Well, it’s very awesome to make this introduction. I was able to make this

introduction in question period as well, but this group is now here.

I rise to recognize three groups of students from Hazelgrove Elementary School who

are with us. They are visiting the Legislature from my riding, Surrey-Cloverdale,

to learn about the democratic process and to learn and gain a better understanding

of the important work that we do here on behalf of them and their future.

I invite all members of this House to join me in welcoming them.

[11:45 a.m.]

Debate Continued

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : Welcome to the students from Hazelgrove. My colleague just introduced you. We are

debating, right now, the budget for the Ministry of Housing and Municipal Affairs.

This is an opportunity for your MLA and the colleagues that are in the place to ask

me any questions about how we are spending money, what is happening with our programs.

It’s part of the accountability that happens in government. Welcome to the place,

and I hope you enjoy the debate.

Thanks to the member for the question. There are two pieces. One is around procedural

fairness. There have been substantial steps taken to address some concerns.

First, we have enhanced the dispute resolution process. The RTB dispute resolution

process is designed to provide open and consistent and efficient opportunities for

parties to present their cases. Now we have included, as of last year, translation

services with over 200 languages. That’s available to anyone that is coming in. There

are actually also Indigenous languages that are included in it. It’s a pretty amazing

new initiative.

We also now are providing audio recordings of the hearings so that there’s more fairness.

People are able to review that audio later if they need to. Parties have a process

now to request a review or a correction of RTB decisions, so that’s an important piece.

The RTB provides access to anonymized past tenancy dispute decisions, so helping parties

understand similar cases and how they were resolved. And of course, we’re moving towards

sharing non-anonymized monetary orders online and doing a lot of work to try to improve

consistency.

To the second part of the member’s question, we certainly had challenges at the RTB,

especially coming out of COVID, because a lot of folks were stuck in their place.

Then, all of a sudden, the cases piled up, not only in B.C., across the country. We

had significant wait times, so we took a couple of steps.

First, we invested a significant amount of dollars — in fact, it was in the first

few weeks of me becoming the Minister of Housing — to hire more adjudicators to improve

the process. We also passed legislation last fall to cut red tape out of the system.

When a person came forward with a dispute, we were required to book a date right from

the beginning. If it was resolved, we had no choice but to keep that meeting until

the end. Often they were cancelled, so a lot of spots were left open.

We changed that process, and we included, in the beginning, a facilitated process.

So a landlord and tenant can come together. There’s a facilitator that tries to resolve

those challenges. I believe the latest number we have on resolution through the adjudication

process is….

Member, give me one second; I’ll give you the exact numbers.

I didn’t have the right number in front of me. I wanted to make sure I put the right

numbers in play.

Since we introduced this dispute process, we’ve seen 80 percent of those cases that

went through a dispute process be resolved before they needed a hearing date. So we’ve

had the ability to divert a lot of adjudication time to resolve this. This is important

because a lot of the times that the cases come forward, there’s just misunderstanding.

So this allowed us to do that.

[11:50 a.m.]

Overall wait times are now all within the service standards that we had set. That

is a massive shift from where we were a year and a half ago. We’ve seen a 75 percent

reduction in wait times for unpaid rent and utilities, a 72 percent reduction in wait

times for security deposit hearings and a 72 percent reduction in wait times for all

hearings overall.

In fact, the challenge in our role — I was sharing this with colleagues yesterday

— is that sometimes your success becomes a challenge, and now we are hearing from

both landlord advocates and tenant advocates that the hearings are happening too fast.

They don’t have time to prepare legal findings, I guess, for those hearings. It’s

moving too quickly now, and there are other concerns that are being raised.

That being said, it’s heading in the positive direction. Now we have some of the lowest

wait times in the entire country. Just under two years ago, we had some of the highest

in the country. It has been a huge shift over there, but we’re going to continue to

work on modernizing that as we go forward.

The Chair : Noting the hour, Minister.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : Shoot, I’m just so used to doing 16 hours. I didn’t realize that I was already done.

The Chair : It’s only hour 14.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : Time flies when you’re having fun.

I move that the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 11:51 a.m.

The House resumed at 11:52 a.m.

[The Speaker in the chair.]

Lorne Doerkson : Committee of Supply,

Section B, reports progress on the estimates of the Ministry

of Housing and Municipal Affairs and asks leave to sit again.

Leave granted.

George Anderson : Committee of Supply,

Section A, reports progress on the estimates of the Ministry

of Water, Land and Resource Stewardship and requests leave to sit again.

Leave granted.

Jessie Sunner :

Section C reports progress on Bill 7 and asks leave to sit again.

Leave granted.

Hon. Spencer Chandra Herbert moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

The Speaker : This House stands adjourned until 1 p.m. today.

The House adjourned at 11:53 a.m.

Proceedings in the

Douglas Fir Room

The House in Committee,

Section A.

The committee met at 11:33 a.m.

[George Anderson in the chair.]

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of

Water, Land and Resource Stewardship

The Chair : Good morning, Members. I call Committee of Supply,

Section A, to order. We are meeting

today to consider the budget estimates of the Ministry of Water, Land and Resource

Stewardship.

On Vote 46: ministry operations, $220,818,000.

The Chair : Minister, do you have any opening remarks?

Hon. Randene Neill : I do — just a quick few opening remarks before we break for lunch.

I recognize today that we’re on the land of the lək̓ʷəŋən-speaking peoples, known as the Songhees and Esquimalt Nations.

I am also the MLA for Powell River–Sunshine Coast, and I’m so grateful to live in

the ḵalpilin in the shadow of kw’enim in the swiya of the shíshálh.

[11:35 a.m.]

It is such an honour to be the Minister of Water, Land and Resource Stewardship. In

the few short months that I’ve been in this role, I have met with so many dedicated

people who deeply, deeply care about this land that we call home. I know that at the

end of the day, we all have the same goals: to take care of this land, to cherish

it and to leave it in better shape than where we left it.

I know a lot of us live here because we love it, and when we love a place, we want

to take care of it. That’s why we’re here today — to do the best that we can to take

care of this beautiful place.

I also really want to say thank you to the critic for WLRS from the official opposition,

the MLA for Boundary-Similkameen. I know that she’s absolutely committed to this role

as well, and I know she’s absolutely committed to holding government to account, so

I look forward to working together on that.

I really just want to introduce my team: Lori Halls, deputy minister of WLRS; Sonja

Martins, assistant DM and executive financial officer for WLRS and Forestry, corporate

services for the natural resources ministry.

David Muter is over there, ADM for land use planning and cumulative effects; Jen Psyllakis,

acting assistant DM for resource stewardship; James Mack, assistant DM, water, fisheries

and coast; Colin Ward, assistant DM, reconciliation, lands and natural resource policy;

Jen Anthony, assistant DM, permitting; Andy Calarco, assistant DM, chief information

officer in natural resource information and digital services; and last but not least,

Laurel Nash, ADM for southeast initiatives secretariat.

I look forward to the questions, and I’m ready to get started.

The Chair : I now recognize the member for Boundary-Similkameen. Would you like to make any opening

remarks?

Donegal Wilson : Just a few, thank you.

Yes, thank you very much for recognizing me and the work that I have to do here today.

I do appreciate all the staff that are here and have taken time. I know that this

was kind of a short notice, so I expect that there were some changing travel plans,

as there was for myself, to be available for this.

Definitely, I want to emphasize that my role as critic is to ask questions. The questions

don’t necessarily reflect that I’m opposed or against anything. They’re just questions

for the purpose of getting the answers on record and to probe to ensure that the ministry

is operating to its full capabilities.

I did submit some questions ahead of this and understand that on the short notice,

again, those questions all weren’t able to be answered. I will just hit those first

because I understand that some are ready, and perhaps we can just get those answers

on the record right away.

My first question was around the budget and the division by region. I was looking

for the total budget for each division and secretariat of the ministry, providing

comparative totals for the past five fiscal years, including a regional breakdown.

Hon. Randene Neill : This will probably take us to break. I’ll just start.

First of all, we didn’t have the budgets for the last five years because this ministry

was just formed in 2022, so we’ll give you since the start of the ministry.

The 2025-26 estimates budget is $221.318 million, representing an increase of $7.051

million compared to the original 2024-25 estimates of $214.267 million.

[11:40 a.m.]

The 2024-2025 restated estimates represents an increase of $5.182 million for interministry

transfers. That includes $5.086 million in budget realignments due to restructuring

and budget transfer for fleet inventory from the Ministry of Forests and $96,000 that

is budget transfer for fleet inventory from the Ministry of Environment and Parks.

The 2025-2026 estimates budget is an increase of $1.869 million or 0.85 percent compared

to the restated 2024-25 estimates of $219.449 million. The base budget lifts of $1.869

million include $103,000. That’s a base budget adjustment for the WLRS Minister’s

office. And $1.766 million — that is the shared recovery mandate lift.

Then I’ll go through the budgets since the beginning of WLRS. The 2024-25 estimates

restated column reflect changes in WLRS’s core business and associated budgets, and

we will get this to you as well.

Let’s go for 2024-25 original estimates.

Land use planning and cumulative effects, $58.428 million; resource stewardship, $41.365

million; water fisheries and coast, $14.244 million; natural resource information

and digital services, $28.803 million; reconciliation, lands and natural resource

policy, $11.61 million; permitting transformation, $29.516 million; executive and

support services, $29.801 million; Crown land special accounts, $500,000. Total ministry

operations in the 2024-25 estimates original, $214.267 million.

Sonja just gave me a clarification. We’ll get you the records since 2024-25.

The 2024-25 estimates restated.

Starting with land use planning and cumulative effects, $39.724 million; resource

stewardship, $37.547 million; water, fisheries and coast, $22.46 million; natural

resource information and digital services, $29.716 million; reconciliation, lands

and natural resource policy, $14.874 million; permitting transformation, $44.523 million;

executive and support services, $30.105 million; Crown land special account, $500,000.

This for a total of $219.449 million.

The 2025-26 estimates.

Land use planning and cumulative effects, $39.917 million; resource stewardship, $37.761

million; water, fisheries and coast, $22.608 million; natural resource information

and digital services, $30.134 million; reconciliation, lands and natural resource

policy, $14.964 million; permitting transformation, $44.913 million; executive and

support services, $30.521 million; Crown land and special account, $500,000.

A total of $221.318 million.

Do we have time to do the variances? The variances for land use planning and cumulative

effects, $193,000; resource stewardship, $214,000; water, fisheries and coast, $148,000;

natural resource information and digital services, $418,000; reconciliation, lands

and natural resource policy, $90,000; permitting transformation, $390,000; executive

and support services, $416,000; Crown land and special account, not applicable.

Total ministry operations, $1.869 million.

I move that the committee rise and report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The Chair : This committee stands adjourned.

The committee rose at 11:44 a.m.

Proceedings in the

Birch Room

The House in Committee,

Section C.

The committee met at 11:34 a.m.

[Jessie Sunner in the chair.]

Committee of the Whole

Bill 7 — Economic Stabilization

(Tariff Response) Act

(continued)

The Chair : Good morning, Members. I call the Committee of the Whole on Bill 7, the Economic

Stabilization (Tariff Response) Act, to order.

On clause 9 (continued) .

Steve Kooner : To clause 9, I had a question in regards to if a procurement directive was found

unconstitutional.

[11:35 a.m.]

If a directive issued under this act, under

section 9, later is struck down by the

court or found unconstitutional, it’s unclear what happens to indemnifications granted

prior to that. Will individuals still be indemnified if the directives they were following

are later found to be unlawful, and if so, how does that align with the legal accountability?

Hon. Niki Sharma : In that instance, if something was struck down as unconstitutional, or the directive

was, then yes, all the provisions would apply with respect to clauses 8 and 9. Interestingly,

I think the legal analysis is that how it would be captured is under the term “intending

to comply.”

Point of Order

Gavin Dew : To the relief of the Attorney General, I rise only on a point of order, and that

is that while I agree with the sentiment of the sticker on the laptop of the member

for Richmond-Steveston, I believe we do have rules about such things.

Interjections.

The Chair : Members, please.

Member, the rules allow that we cannot have stickers on laptops, so if you could please

cover it or put the laptop away. Thank you.

Debate Continued

Steve Kooner : If a class action or a large-scale legal proceeding targets government procurement

decisions taken under this act, does clause 9 expose the province to unlimited indemnification

costs?

Hon. Niki Sharma : The same principles apply as we talked about yesterday to that scenario. If you read

clause 8 and 9 together, the first scenario would be the immunity provision in clause

8, and clause 9 is limited in scope, and we talked about this yesterday, to any costs

or expenses incurred by the protected person in any legal proceedings taken. That

wording in itself is a limiting factor on what costs could be incurred through that

indemnity.

You also have to remember that the two provisions acting together would mean that

in such a case, if it was a class action of the scale the member describes, clause

8 would kick in. At that point, there would be no action against that defendant, and

the province would have likely taken over some sort of conduct of that matter.

Steve Kooner : It’s a little bit unclear to me how

section 8 provides limits. I understand there’s

terminology in regards to bad faith. That seems to be one of the limitations that

section 8 provides.

Section 9 also provides it.

Perhaps the Attorney General can explain. Does the limitation come from subsection

(1) or subsection (2) in terms of that reference?

[11:40 a.m.]

Hon. Niki Sharma : As we talked through yesterday, the defendant in that case would likely make an application

using clause 8 to say: “There’s no claim against me in this matter.” In that instance,

the province would take over in whatever fashion as it appears in that particular

legal proceeding to take over. There’s a limiting factor of costs to that defendant

right from the outset when clause 8 kicks in.

Steve Kooner : Yesterday we spent some time discussing whether there was a regulatory framework

or a framework guiding government procurement entities in terms of education of what

legal protections there are, legal consequences there are.

Something related to that but not quite on the point…. I’ve got a question. Why is

there no independent or judicial mechanism to challenge or review decisions under

clause 9 regarding who is indemnified?

Hon. Niki Sharma : In cases like this, it’s very unnecessary to add, in the legislation, an appeal process

because of the fact that there’s plenary jurisdiction for all courts related to matters.

So it would be the court that the person had access to if they disagreed with that.

Steve Kooner : Again, we had extensive discussion on why there weren’t enough educational guidelines.

The Attorney General’s office was mentioning that whatever framework there is, that

will suffice, according to the Attorney General’s office.

That discussion was geared towards the government procurement entities. But now my

follow-up question is targeting ministries, because we’ve also heard that there have

been numerous ministries involved with the Attorney General’s department in terms

of this particular legislation. We’ve also heard that other ministries are going to

be involved after they receive that enabling statute or enabling provisions out of

this legislation.

In regards to those particular other ministries, I have a question. Has the Attorney

General issued any internal directives or frameworks to guide ministries in making

indemnification decisions under clause 9? We’ve had some discussion on government

procurement entities, but now I’m steering the discussion towards ministries. Have

there being any guidelines discussed with ministries on how they would carry forward

these directive obligations?

Hon. Niki Sharma : It’s a similar process that’s already in place, as we talked about, as this is a

very common thing for government. Provisions like this exist. I think the number was

85 pieces of legislation.

The risk management branch of the Ministry of Finance is the primary body that deals

with similar provisions with indemnification, along with the legal services branch.

In that structure, we work with all the ministries that may or may not have a role

with this.

With that, Chair, I move that the committee rise, report progress and ask to leave

to sit again.

Motion approved.

The Chair : The committee stands adjourned.

The committee rose at 11:44 a.m.