Volume XLI Thursday ' Pt~OP.E1.F<Ty O!r NE\.VFOU.Nb! ... _"Nt~ . . ···\. L'bG fSLJ\1"n r;~ T ''T::?r~ ..,. b't, c • . ... -\ ~""' -o~-· '····!', . .:"1~- ... :1: Province of Newfoundland P . •. L,..... ~ <"'t- >-·y--~-J •.-·,x~ .l~J-\.._).L;.. 1.\r 1.: r-··.f"l FORTY- FIRST GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND First Session VERBATIM REPORT (Hansard} Speaker: Honourable Thomas Lush Number 13 15 June 1989

The House met at 2:00p.m. MR . SPEAKER (Lush): Cli"der, plE!ase! Statements by Ministers MR . W. CARTER : Mr . Speaker . MR . SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Fisheries. Mr. ~;peaker, as :i.n years gone by thE! Prov".ince ant.i.cipatE!S thal: due to thE! seasoncl1 inshor·E! migl"ation of caplin and cod we will once again soon experience an oversupply of fish t.o otH' .inshor'E! plants. This 'cod g1ut' situat:i on is furthE!r compli.catr:!d by thE! fact that many groundfish processors are prE!Sently gc,~ar·ing up for the lucrative caplin fishery.

In an effort to alleviate the problems associated with this oversupply situation the Department of Fisheries intends to initiate a number of measures which shouJ.d prove very beneficial to the industry during this period. For example, we intend to give approval to a mobile processing vessel to purchase Fish directly from fishermen during the glut periods. The MV Northern Princess will be made available to purchase fish and is capable of processing approximateJ.y 200,000 pounds of cod per day. The vessel u.d11 be initially locatE!d in St.. Jo .hn' s.

Efforts lAJill be coordinated through The Neu.Jfoundland F:ishermen, Food and Allied Workers Union and joint t.r-au.JlE!rs For thE! transpori~ of cod to t:.his VE!SSE!}. A Fjsheries Mon:i.tor-jng Comm:Ll::l:ee L634- June lS, 1.989 \Jol XLI has also beE!/1 act:i.vatE!d t.o addrPss thE! 'glut' s:it:uat:ion. This Committee will involve both Jevels oF goVE!rnrnE!nl:. as IAJcdl as indusl.:r-y and its primar·y rnanclc.'.ll:E! :i,~; to address conCE!f'I1S of both Fisht:H'tnnn and proCE!Ssors to ensur'E! fuLl. resource utilization where possiblE•. ThE!

Cornm:i.tteE! w:i.l.l rnE•E!t on an ongoing basis during the peak landing periods. In a furt.hE!r effort Lo allevial:.E! any potential glut problems, Mr. Speaker, the Department of F~sheries will be issuing temporary pr·ocess it·tq 1 iet :!n~:;<::•s du1ning 1989. The Mon:i.l.or·:i ngJ Cormnittc:·(:~ u.ri11 be:! consultc•d befu(·C! any such 1 icE! n s e s wi ] 1 be :i s s 11 e c! . Groundf:ish process -Lny 'licon~;:::•s tn.:ty bE! :.i.ssUE!d to companies For· a specified period to conduct processing operations in facilities that were not previously licensed. Mr.

Spc~akE!r'' as rnany IIWrnbers or th:i .s HOUSE! ar'E• di,1JdY'e, -t.hf' Department of Fisheries has establ:ishE·d rrr:Ln:i.murn pr·oCE!S~;:i .ngJ requirements under rhe Fish InspE!ction Act u.Jhi .ch norlfla]Jy e n s u r· e t h a t: c o d a r· E! E! i L:l·l (:! r filleted or split and saJted prior to export. In order to Pnsure that our ftshermen havE• <:1 market For their catch during .inshore 9 U J t. p E! r :i. 0 d S , t h e cJ E! p a r· l.ITl E! l'l t: HId y temporarily decide to withdraw these rE!qu:i .rE!lfH'•nl:s for a l:inr:i.l~E!d period oF t.irnE! .

The Department of Fisheries through its network of regional offices throughout the Province, tJJ:i11 ma.i ntain close l:iaison tAd t.h FJsh processors, f:isher·tnen, ,:'.tnd FishE!rlflE!n' s orgc1n:i.zat.:i.on~. throughou 1: t:he tradi l:ional "glut:" pE!r:i.od. Infor·rnato:ion dusk~: at i..hE:~ regional. oFfices tJJ:i.11 E!ndeavout"· Lo match peak Jand:i.ngs of fjsh wjl .. h No. 13 I~ 6 3 4-

underutilized capacity. Our Fisheries Offices at Harbour Grace, WesJ.eyviJ 1e, La Sd.E! and Marystown will be staffed by field reprE!sent.at::LVE!S during Saturdays and statutory holidays should the need arise during the glut s ·.i tua t·ion. Mr. Speaker, the Departmen t of Fisheries ha s also provided a $15,000 grant to the Fishermen, Food and Al] jed Workers Union to set up and staff an information desk to co-ordinate and monitor f is h 1 and in g s . This des k wi 11 be 1 o cat E! d i. n S t . John ' s and wi J 1 b ~~ ma intained until the glut situation is over. Mr.

Speaker, I believe the measur es which I have outlined her e tod ay will prove extremely be neficial to the fishermen of Newfoundland and Labrador during this glut situation an d will ensure that our Fishing industry l~c~ceiuos UlE! maximum benefits fr·om any oversupply situation. SOME HON. MEMBERS: liE!ar, hear! MR. HEAim: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. th"=' rnembE!r' for St. Mary's -· ThE! CapE!S. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. HEAim: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Let. mE! t:hank thE! hon. m:i nj .si:E!r for sending lrlE! a copy of h·is statement:, and Jet lTlE' congratuJate him on the endeavour's he has startE ~d. At 1Past bE-fore we get in l:.o a pr·obl.1 :'rn s i l:.ua l:oi.on, tJJE' s E!E! some positive moves towards 1..6 3 (~ June 1.5, 1989 Vol XLI aJ.Jeviating a problem that is just about to come upon us . I do have sornE! conCE!rns, hotAJE!V<:!r, about the measures taken.

Perhaps \:h(:~ phras<w1ogy 'is incorreci: tAJhen we taJ.k about cod glut., bE•cauSE! ~i.l · has been a while since we saw what we could caJ.l a r eal cod glu t, wh en t)1e cod, wh ic h was the bas i.e fj she t'Y in this area for a number of years, wou ld become so plentiful at this ti me of year that the plant s could nol: handle it and we had to find so 1nc:! tAJay or getting rid of tt. Plants cannot ha 11dle th0 c •)d nuw, b u t j t i s not b ~ c au s e o f LIH~ c o d g 1 u t , i t i. s b e c au s e t h e ~L r f r c e Zl:! r· s at'e blocked with caplin.

We ar·l -~ getting, perhaps, something li .ke. the old merchan t mental it y . AJJ the inshore proc essing plat'1ts, or at least most of them we have today, are there becau se l:hcy W<::!re set up to handl e cod fish. Eventually th ey got capl.in licenses, and as the caplin fishery has bec ome lucratlve the fishermen wl1o for years depE!I1d(;rd on co d, and that wou ld be l.he majority of our fish~rmen, havE'· been sho ved in th e background during the caplin fishing season so that the plant operators ca n mak e a mint on caplin , and the people who traditiona1ly fi.sh C<. •d fi nd themselves without any market.

It is that problem that we are trying to addr<:!ss here. SomE! of thE! lTIE!i'lSUrf's aJ.so concE!r'n me a littlE.~ b·it. There"! is a boat arranged fo r St. John's that can handle 200,000 pound s of fish a day . IF ·t.here is any dO I~CJU n l of co d fish at all in St. Joh n's E.~sl and the Pet ty Harbour arr::~a, t.hat will mor e tha. n make up for l:he a 111 o u n t. of F i s h l h a t t. h E! b o a l c a n handle. No . 13 1\6 3f:,

ThE!re has bl:!on a rE!quest j n for a boat For St. Mary 1 s Bay, and I understand, with somE! co -operation fl~om !·:hE! Departrnc:!nt of FishE!r-.ies, that boat can and will be made ava-.ilable, and I hope it will. The awarding of temporary 1-.icenses to companies for a specified period concerns me a lot, because I u.Jonder if i·t is a way of doing through the back door what we were accused of doing through the front door a Few days ago by my colleague on the left . Tonight at the Colnrn-:il:.tor:~ I tJ.Jill bE! asking in which areas these licenses will be atJJarded, to whom, and For how long.

W.ilJ :Lt bP just to handlE! t.hE! glut, or· u.Jill it bl:~ for· a period of time? Because there wi.l1 b«::' quitE! a lot of difference therE!? MR. RIDEOUT: If l:he glut triggers is going to · trigger out. MR.

HEARN: Exactly. thE!rn in, it them :in CHJd The esi.:ablishrnc:!nt of minimum processing requirements we hav e , which have prevent ed the ex~ort of ·Fish from the Province unless it is proc essed or semi-processed, might be a solution also, but we have to b@ very car eful of tha t one, becauSE!, onCE! again, if outside interests get their foot in the door, ·then i:hE!Y have ways of pushing tilE! door further opE!n, and that is taking jobs at.o~Jay from the Prouince.

We cannot, hotJJE!VE!r, listen to our own processors cornpla:in.ing about fish being tt~uckE!d out. iF thE!Y are not going to buy it and thE! f:ishE!riTIE!n are suFFer·ing. The rnonitor·ing desks around the Island L636 June 15, 1989 that we have certajnly, I Vol XLI must say from rny OIJJn exper:i .ence, ha•J<~ a very poor record. .r h.:~ve yet to see very rnuch ~;uccess in them finding markets For f :.i s h e r· me n . A n d U1 E! s a ITt P c d n b (:' said For the union, t.o~Jhich CE!rta:Lnly has not bE!Pil OVN'ly product:iVE! in finding rnarkl:>l:.s o•Jor· the years.

Now that they are directly involved with a dE!sk oF thEdr own, maybE! this Lo~r:i.Jl bE! of sornE! help. But certainly in thE! p a S 'L t. h E! f :L S h e In 1T1 E! n W (;! t' P ] f! f 1:: t 0 Flounder, and thr::!ir only r·ecoursE!, I s a y t o t h e m :i n :i. s t E'! r , U.kl s t h e D<~par-trnenl:. of l'.oish!':!lnj_(!S and l:hc! i.t· local rnernbe1ns t1.Jho, thank God, Cdlllt:! ·through for l:hem in 1no st cd S!!S. Mr . :3pc>aker, I thank Lhc::, JTIC!JrtbUt" for thE' copy of th<:! s Latern( :'nt.. I c o n g r· a t: u 1 a 1: e h i_ 1 n o n t: h C! :Lni tiatives.

We w:i 11 be t;.Jatch.-i ng as they are .i.rnplE!rnE!nt:ud. I t:hoLnk thE!r'E! arE! sorne good lll O VE!~; hE!I"e. Hot.AJever, sev eral of them are open to abuSE! by outsi de :int .E!ref:;l :.s, and perhaps by gov ernment itself if they are not mon jto red carefully. Thank you . SOME HON. MEMBERS: ·---···---·-····---·---·-·····---HE!ar, hE!ar! Oral Questions MR. SPEAKER: The hon. t:hE! LeadE!r of t: he Opposition . MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr . Speaker. Mr.

Speaker·, -:.i.n v:i.ew of t.he fact. thai.: the Premier consistently appears to be preoccupied w.-ith d e c o r· u rn h e r P :i. n 1: h e H o u s C:! o F AssernbJ .y, and j_n v:i.et.o~J or· Lhe fact . tha-t you cannot: very well teach 5unclay ~;chool :lessons ins :i.cle Uris No. 13 1\6 3 6

HouSE! and practice sornE!thing elsE! wh€~n you are outside, tn voiE!W of the fact: that. the HouSE! consists of more than just the Floor of th:is Lc.=!gislature -· in fact, HlE! precincts of this liouse are equally as sacred -· l..ldlJ. thE! Premier today do the honourable thing and imrnE!diatE!ly apoJ.ogize to this House for calling a member of this House a liar yesterday during a press serum'? MR. SPEAKE I~ : ThE! hon. the Premier·. PI~ EMI E R WELLS : Mr . Sp<:~akE!r, I ha(JE! herE! a copy of The Evening Telegram and I think it is probably reasonably accurately reflects what occurred .

I do not recall it being significantly different. I believe this :i.s what 11Jas said, or the general context of it. The statement was made by the hon. member for Mount Pearl that the negotiations were in excellent condition, a deal was about ready to be made, and it was only my position on Meech Lake that stoppE!d it. That:, Mr. SpeakE!r', is totally and completely inaccurate . That is l..IJrong and inaccurate. I can state that categorically, that is wrong and inaccurat.E!. You cannot or should not USE! the wor·d 1 ]ie 1 in thj _s House, although I undE!rstand there are circumstances where it can be said.

And pE!rhaps it :is E!VE!n too strong a 1/Jord t.o use outside the House. It is totally and completely inaccurate. Maybe he might even believe that and therefore that might change its character, but I believe h.irn to be sufficiE!nt1y well infor'ITJed and h(! should not bE!liE!tJe that. So I do not know what motivated him to say that, I can only assume it ts pol:iU.cs. L637 JunE• 15, 1989 Vol XLI I do not disagree with what .the Leader of the Opposition .is saying,, 1 l:iE:~ 1 is t:oo st:rons1 a IAJord, but you do occasionally rj(!l: carried away a bit and make strong statements.

It is totally and completely an jnaccurate statement. If the form E!r minis l:c,r feels any better with my characterizing it as that l:han an 1 liE! 1 , then I arn happy to IAJithdraiAJ the reference to 1 lie 1 and charactE!riZE! it as a l:otaJly and complE!tE!ly :inaccur'ate stal:C:!Jrlent. MR. RIDEOUT : Mr . ~3pr::•akE!r. ~~R. SPEAKER : The hon. thE ~ Leader · of 'L. hf! Opposi t:ion . MR. IUDEOUT : Mr . Speaker, I hav e a supplementary, obviou sly, but br!forE! I put it I am surE" Lhat : a]] members are pleased to recogni Le in the Speaker 1 s Gall ery at the moment a former Pr emier of th is Province, Mr.

Smallwood. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar! Hear, hear·! MR. RIDEOUT: Mr . Speaker, a supp] E!JrJen tar·y . MR . SPEAKER: The han. the LE!<'lOE!l h Cl F the:! Opposition. MR. RIDEOUT : Mr. ~3pE!akE:'r', I did not S (•E! hotAJ The Telegram rE!fE!rrE!d to j t:, but I did see with .my own E!yos U1 c:! Premjer on the electronic media last night use using th e words that. J just dE!scr :ibed. f.3ut !.:he Premier .in his an swer, r l:.hi.nk , gj VE'! S l.eaVE! to thE· s upple~nun t c:-n '~/. In vi e1AJ of the Fa c l~ l..ha L Lh P PrE!m :ier obviously be comes so No. 13 1~6 3 7

irritable and visibly perturbed when his method and approach is questioned by anybody, including members of this House, wiJJ the Prern:ier tell the House lAJhE!thE!r or not hE! plans to hi .re a tempE!rclturE• control expert on the staff of his OffiCE!? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear. hE!ar! MR. RIDEOUT: No answer, Mr. Speaker. I _guess <HTogancE! :Ls nOIJ.J sholAring through again. Maybe thr:! Pr'E!m·.i.E!r would like to respond to this. In viE!IJ.J of thE! fact thal: UH:!

Prerni1~r has nolAJ had f:l.ve or s:i.x lAJoeks of on--the-job training, can the Premier tell the House when he intends to replace visible arrogance with understanding, and rE!d··-faced irr:itat :ion with patiencE! when dealing with the people in the government and running the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador? SOME HON. MEMBERS : No answer. MR. RIDEOUT: HE! has got He has been d.iSE!aSe. MR. WINDSOR : Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : the Kil:chE!n hit with thE! disease. K:i tchE!n The hon. the member for Mount Pearl. MR . WINDSOR : Mr.

SpE!akEH', I IJ.Jas going to ask a supplernenb:H'Y a1ong Lhe same linc~s but I appreciate the fact that the Premier has withdrawn thai: comment. I point out that The Evening Telegram r·epor·t. 1 think. was reasonably accurate. I use L638 JunE· 15, 1989 Uo] Xl.I h:i.s own quote. Mr . Speakc;r·. - in that st:ai:E!rnent, so it i.s ITIOr E! about the pE!rson 111aking l:ht::! s t a t e rn t:! n t t h a n a b o u t:. 1.1J h o m j i. IAJ a ~~ being said, and I wi11 lc!d \JC H: al:. that. SOM~ HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WINDSOr~ : Just to confirm thE! s:.i .t.uat:ion, Mr .

Speaker, I IJ.J:i.11 table an exc or·pl:. from thE! rn:i.nutes of the niE' !E!t .. :i.ng of November 18, of a technical colnln ::Lt:t :E!E! and the stat("lllent of Ml ". Bern :i.E!r thal:. I quol.: t:!d hl'• l"'t' ye si:E!r·day. It: :is ju st a: ·1 excerpt . There is nol :hinq i.n thE•rE• of any conf"·.idE!nt-.:ia] ndl":UJ"r :•, so I hi:. ''lVE' jus t t.aken ,;tn excer·p t:. . But just : for the I"E' COI"ds of the HousE!, just :. to show IJ.Jho :i.s l:c!ll.i .nq the truth in this s:i t.uat:ion, Mt'. Speaker, I table that .. I rE•fel" l:hE!

PrE!IniCH ' l:o Lhe Editorial of The Evening Telegram and I co ng rat ulate "The Telegram . I thtnk they ha ve giv en a we ll-bal an ce d report today. and I refer tht;! Pr ·emie r· to the las t: pc;tragr aph th at say s, "f-1r . Wells h as to be pr epar ed to put aside any pr·.i.vai:e quc:~lms that he might have about this or that constitutional arrangement and go to thE! bargaining t:abJo lAJ:i lh Ml". Bourassa or any other Quebecer. DE!VE!lop:ing Labrador rnay be tlw key to th:is province's fut:ur ·e." ThE! Lven:Lng TE!lE'grarn E!d:it .OJ":i <:l] ist.. Mr. sp~~akE.H·. :is ent.ir( -.tly right.

I point out.: to the Premi er that t:hn peoplE! of this Prov ince IArill judge: ~ IAJ h E! t h E! I" o r· n o t h e i s L E! 11 :L n g a 11 unl:rul:h :in this liouso or· dl'rl I. I ask h:i.ITI 1101AJ, :in vi~ :!IJJ or Lll e judgement laid down by The Evening Telegram, IAJh i.ch I"E!presE'!nt.s t:hE! op:.in:i.ons of thE'! p e o p 1 e o f t h :i s P r o v i n c e , t ... r.i .1. l h e No. 1.3 R638

now change his position on Meech Lake and go back to the bargaining table with Quebec in good faith? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar! MR. SPEAKER : The han . the PrE!rrliE:'r. PREMIEI~ WELlS: l.et ITIE! do a couple of things to de a 1 with t: he mattE! r s as the h on . membE!r dealt wi . th them. The documE!nt he tabled is probably an accut"ate statement. I refer'rf:'d to the discussions that took place dur·ing thE! muet:ings and corrmtE•ntE!d on l:he l:hings that had occurTed. I acknowledged Lhat, I neVE!r don :L E! d t t . A~~ a rna t. t c~ r of fact, I descr':i.bed :it fir·st jn the House.

What I was talking about is tho complete breakdown of any action since December, demonstrating there are no active talks, no dc~als just around the corner, and it is clearJy established. NoLi.J, thE! othE!r cormnent that he has rnade about Meech Lake. Let rne say at once the E!ditorial :i.s t.he opinion of the individual tJJho WJ"ote it, not the opinion of thE! people of the Province. MR. WINDSOR: We will see. PREMIER WELLS: I do not know who wrote it. It is the opinion of the editoralist. MR. WINDSOR: Yes, your former colleague . PI~EMIFR WELLS : I am prepared to gi .ve the ansWE:'r if they want it to be heard.

Mr. Speaker, when the former government was in power they raised the question of using Meech L639 June lS, 1989 lJoJ. XLI Lake to barqain. The Fot "lllE'r minister wantE!cl to use Meech LakE'! to bargain and his Cabinr~t col1E!aguE~s turnE!d h~i.rn clown and sa :i.d, no, :Lt was nol: to be usud to barga:i n. And they Li.JE!IAE! t":.i gh l:. :in that decision, it ought not to have been used to bargain anything. That was thE! foJ"tnal decision taken and rnj nut.E!cl in council at the time, Mr. Speaker. MR. WINDSOR: You cannot produce anything. PREMIER WELLS : :r-~~-T:f'C-pl;: 'oCi"l:lc (! l: h (!

In i n u t: e i [-' I• h a t :is IAJhat . is rE!quir'E!d . ll :l ::; t h e r E! . [ t. i s c 1 E" a I" .l y s l:. a t·· c· d . r h te! m:in istE!r' s rE!pJ"esentat.:i on :i.~ ; ·l:.ht" l"l:' and l:he dE!Cision of r:Jovc·r·r·ttllc!nl ··. i.~; clearly there as welJ, that il would not be used for that purposo. Now, Mr·. Spr:~aker, l:he ed.i. tor·ia1 r'E!fE!rJ"ed to by thE! mcrnbE!r suggE!Sts a particular course of action. I disagree t.o~d ·Lh the coJTJirlE!n L tha L o:i l' should be USE!d to barga i.n in this w a y .

I d o n o t d :.i s a ~~ r e E:! lA I j t·. h l h e comment that one should go with open mind and negotiate and bargain. I have already stated clearly the posit:ion of the Province~ and my personal posoi.t: i.on in that regard, and i+:. remains to bC! [:hat . rhat is the E•Xtenl: l:O wh:ich the E:'d:i .tor·'s cotTttnent.:; ar·u 11 0 t f" 0 U n d E! d 0 n a C t U a l f d. C t . nl a t was clearly the posJtion I have taken and that rema ins the position, but I IAJi]] not barged n kilowatts of power for constoi.tutional principles. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!dr! Ml~.

SPEAKER: The h o n . t h E! rn e ITl be t" f o r' M u u 11 l .. Pearl. MR. WINDSOR : No. l.3 1\6 3 9

Fii"Sl: of a11, Mr. SpE.~aker, the Premier has now brought forward another untruth, that rny position was that we shouJ.d bar·gain MeE~ch Lake . That is not what I am advoca ti ng at alJ.. Wha t I am saying is that the Premi er in his statement has seriously taken away from the possibility of completing a good contract with Quebec, a good deal wi i:h Queb ec because of his position of Meech Lake . No, we should not bargain it. but neither should u.Je dE~stroy t.'lny opportunity of developing one of the last great resource potentials of this Province because of his short. -·tel"lrl goals. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: HE~ar, hear! MR . SPEAKER : The han. i:he Premier. PREMIER WELLS: Mr. Speaker, you should never sell your soul for the right to li ve i n a roorn for on e nigh t. You should think about the long -ter m future of us and th e peo pl e who ar e not yet born in this Province . MR . WINDSOR : SureJ.y the hon. gE~nt1E!tnan contracted too far in 1965. MR. WARREN : That is right . How much money did he get out of it? DR. KITCHEN : That is an awfuJ remark to be rnade in the House. MR. SPEAKFR: The hon. the member for Kilbride . Ml~. I~. AYI.WAFW: Thank you very much, Mr . Speaker .

I have a Minister question for the of MunicipaJ. hon. and L64-0 June 15, 1989 Vol XU Pr ·ovinc.ia1 AFfairs. YE~st:er ·day he was good enough to provide this HousE! !Ar.ith a copy of i:.he capital funding for ti·w Pr·ovj .nce for the upcoming YE:'ar·. On Junt':! 7 he lrliHJE· a s t a t erne n t i n t. h j s H o u s E! 1:. o s u g g e s t t h a t thE! r E! was ~~ S 0 1Td 1 Li. o n in capital works projects lo be spent this year. Rough totals on the projects for yesterday were about $43 rni11ion. ~3o I ask the hon. rnini stE!r is 1:.1-wrE~ anothE~r list? MR.

SPEAKER: ----·- ·-·~- ·-··-·- ThE! hon. thE~ M:i.nj str!r of Muni c:-i.pr.1] and Provincial AFFairs. MR. GLI LL AG E: Mr. Speaker. the rnemb er· is qui l.:e co rr e c'l: . ·the re u.1a s $4 ·3 rn.i 1J ·ion on yeste rd ay' s list. Thare is another $7 rni llio n tl'lat has bG!e n allocat ed to variou s things that have to be don e in the Prov ince . such as regio na l ser vicing au thor·i ties. a pr ime exa mp] li'!, wh ere legislatio n has to be brough t before the House to set up those author·ities.

If those amounts were pr esen ted to t.hc House in the li st we would, in fact, be ob liga tin g a lead comm un ity for· the amount oF mon ey invol ved, so I thought it tJJise not to bring that befor e the Hou se until the legislatj on for thr,- region al se rv icing author it y was, in fact, adop ted by the Hous e. ~OME HON . MEMBERS: HE!ar, hc~ar! MR. R. AYLWARD: Mr. ~>peakE!r . MR . SPEAK ER: The han. the member for Kilbride. MR . R. AYI..WARD : A br.i.(:d~ supplQillE!ni:ary, Mr. ~3poai<E!r. I would like to see a lis t of whal No . 13 1\6 4-0

the hon. nH:~mber· proposes, but ·i·l: is my understanding of Th e Mun j ci pa lit: l.es Act now that the re is leg isl ation in place to set up reg ional ser vici ng authoriti es, or· regional governmen ts. If that is ne cess ary, the regi ons themselves can decide not;.J. It is a fact now that the new government or the minist er is going to shove this regional gov ernm ent down the throats of the people of the Provinc e righ t now? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Munic ipaJ and Provincial Affairs. Ml~ . GU LLAGE : M1~ .

SpeakE!r, I clearly stated I am ta lking ab out regional ser vicin g au thorities, not regional gov er nme nt. And in fact the legislat ion is not co mpl ete. Even iF it were complete, in the cas es I speak of we have to have the agr(:'E!rrlE!nt of thE• towns involVE!d to E!ntE!r into t.hat J.egislation, enter into the regional servicing authority in that particular rc~gion. Until WE! get that agreement from the towns involved, the regional au~hority cannot become operative. MR. R. AYLWARD: Mr . SpE!aker. MR. SPEAKER : The han. the member for Kilbride. MR . R.

AYLWARD: Does the minister plan to hold, as it states in the act, public hearings to deal with these regional authoritj es and regional se rv ic ing groups? I would imagine it would be si milar to regional governments. In the act now, I bel ie VE! it states tha t publj c hear in gs must be held and cons ider ations be given to the regions. Is that what the L6 4·1 June El, 1989 Vol X L.I minister plans to do? MR. GULLAGE: Mr . SpeakE!r'. MR. SPEAKER: ~he han. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. MR. GULLAGE: Mr.

Speaker, I am not aware of anything in the legislation that provides for public hearings tn set up regional servicing authorities. MR. WINDSOR : Read the act . Mf\ . GU L.l.AGE: ---·----·--· ·--~-···-- I have ruad l:he act and I h<wo no l:: see n it. It js r~qujred for oLhPr dealings, su ch as dJnc:~lg ellll al:hJn::. and b o u n d a ri E! s a n d s o on , b LJ i: I have not seen anything :ln l:hl::"l act speaking specjficaJly to regional servicing authoriti es. I wjl l chec k it out, bu ·t I haVE! nol s~:r.'n anything in the act. MR. WARREN: Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : ThE! han. thE! rnembE!r for· ToJAn~Jat .

Mountains. MR. WARREN : Mr. Speaker, my question .is to the Minister of Heal ·l:h (Mr . Dec ke1r) . Mr. Speaker, I thi nk we all rea lj ze that the number of nursing clinics along _ the Labrador Co ast in par ti cular ar e ver y short on s t a f f , an d.

part i c u 1 d r 1 y n u r s E! s . It is very diffj cult for the n u r s e s 1: o carry o u t thE! i r d u tiE! s , twe nty-fo ur hour servic~ . wh en there is only one nur se in a comm un it y. Wou ld the minjster c o n f i r m t h a t t h e r e ar· e s u f f i. c i u n t rlJ J'ld S allotted in this budget. /c)r the hiring of an extra tw ~lu0 No. 13 [~64·1

nurses for the Regional GrenfBll Health Services? MR. DECKER: Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Health . MR. DECKER: Mr·. Speaker, the:1 hon. rnernber wilJ know that in the Budget Speech, which l..o.Je announced somE! Urne ago, we put :Ln funding for forty -five nur·ses - th:i .rty-·thrPe couJ.d bE! nurses and the institutions have discretion as to t..o.JhethE:H' they would use nurses or nursing assistants for the other positions.

Specifically as to t;.JhethE!r they t..o.Jere tLAJE'J.ve aJ] ocated to the Labrador Coast, I cannot answer that question because the L..abr·ador· Coast is adrnintstered by the Gr·enfelJ. Association, and the Grenfell Association, or the GrenfelJ. Health Services District as it is now called, ware allocated a reasonable number of thE! nurses and thE•y have the discretion as to where they allocate them . I am sure I have every confidence they will allocat:e them where it is rnost appropriate for the area.

I arn sure l:he mernbE!r LAJill also be.~ glad to real:iz e Hlcl t in the federal agreement just recently dgned there was $2. 1 rrd llion in that for clinics along the coast. SOME HON. MEMBERS : t·lear·, hE!ar! MR . DECKER: Of courSE!, we anticipated that and r·-or thai: very reason we put: some planning money inl.:o the budget so thai:. l..o.Je can do some planning for the clinics along the coast, tJJh:ich, as t.he han. me1nbc!Y' knows, arE! badly :in neE•d of them. I know 1_642 June 1 1 ~, 1989 Vol XI.I hot..o.J d:i ffi cult it. is for one nursE! to bE! on duty, Ml~. SpeakE!r', a] ong the Labrador Coast.

It is not fair· to Lhe nui"SE! and :.i.t j s cer'li.'lin1y not fa:i.r l:o l:hE! pc!ople who live in these areas. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!ar, hear! MR. WARREN: Mr . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member fot" TOI"n~Jat J"'lounta ins. MR. WARREN : M ,~ . S p E! a k E! r , I have a n t·' 1.11 que s ! .. :Lon For the Mtni.sU!r or-- lll:!a.ll:h. l"li". S p E! a k E! r , o n J u n E:! 1 T a ~: k e cl t. h (! Minister of Health if he would chE!Ck :into thE! abus: .iVE! USE~ of l:he medical aircraft that. is opor·at.t'!d by the Grenfell RegionaJ. Health Services . Mr. ~3peab:!r, as quoLed in The Evening Telegram -..

I 1.1ri :t] table it, Mr. ~3peaker - 11 1-'lr . DeckE!r rep1:.i.l=·d t.hat if :it tJJ<."s 'L.he l..o.Jay l:.he PC Covennnunl: WdS abusing taxes, that answer carne up on April 20. 'After April 20 you will not find that misuse of government funds. I would Jike to ask thE! m:i .nist:er, would he advise if he has taken any action to cur· t a j ] t.ll E! a b u ~:; :.L v c use of the Grenfell Regional Health Services medica] aircraft? MR. SPEAKER: ThE! han. the Minister of 11E!all:h . MR. DECKER: ---·-··----·-·-··-Mr.

Speaker, I: he rnE•tnbt~r did gel: up and makE! sornE:! vr-·r·y s(:!r:i.ous accusations in th.i.s 11ouse i:~::. l.o how Ci~enfE!ll l..o.JerE• us:i n~J l .. he:i r· aj I" services . 11 e could on 1 y h <.'1 v e b C! en referring to things that mighL have happened while his aclm:i.nistra'l:.:i.on l..o.Jas in poLAJer. No. 13 1\64-2

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear: hE' a r r--·-·-·- MR. 'DECKER: I a s s u n~ d t h e 111 E! rn b E• r t. h a t i f -- I specifically said '"i.f' and Hansard will bear me out - if his ·administration was abusing the tax money of our peopiE~ and allowing Grenfell to abuse the money for air SE•rvices, it IAJOuld not happen aftE1r April 20. I am glad to say today, Mr. SpE~aker, that I stand by that. ThE!r'e t.•.ri11 be no abuses in the air services. Noi;.J, I d::i.d somE· chE:•cking wit.h the Grenfe11 Association and also with my own department.

I have been advised that the policy is that the plane is there for carrying patients from one point to the other; the plane :Ls aJ.so thr:!rE:~ for· carrying medical staff throughout Labrador and around Newfoundland. When a plane leaves St. Anthony for St. John's or Montreal or wher·evr:!r, on dn elnE!rgE!ncy . mission with a patient, whether or not that plane, on that particular trip, has tiAIO or three pE!Ople, or whc:d:hE!r or not it is fully loadE!d does not really make too much difference, the plane is going anyway.

So the policy is that IAihE!n the plam~ is corning in IAlit:h onE! pat::i.E!nt and an escort or tlAJO, whatever the caSE! may be, if l:hr:! plane is going to make the trip already, then the staff who work with the hospital are given the · privilE!ge of corntng :in on that par·ticular trip. Now, Mr. Speaker, this .is not unreasonable, in view of the fact that it is not easy to recruit staff to IAIOrk in Nor·thE:!rn NE!Wfoundland and Labrador .

I know it is the best pJacP on earth to ]itJ<:! and LIJork, but ever·yon:::! doE!S not shar'E• that op~i.nion. ~io it is an incent:ive to the star--f, and I l..64 -3 June lS, 1989 Vo1 XLI think it is a good one. HoWE!Ver, IJJe haVE! to bE! car'E!fU1 that i.l: lAJ".i J.l not be abused. We do nol IJJanl:: Uwm to make the tr·~L p e s pE• cia l.ly for takj.ng thE! s Laff iH'Otllld . That is not thC:~ int(!nt. It :is For· a medical emergency, a medica] reason, Mr. Speaker, and when l:.hi.s is donE!, thE!n thE'! st:aff" ar'E! alloWE!d l:o ride on i.L .

PersonaLLy, I do not SE!E! any gl"eat problem with that on the condition that the plane is going anyway. B u t :if thE! h o n . rn em b E• r' s a i. d l:\'1 at when they IAH'!re in power· t:hey used to allow the planes to fly all OVE!r God's cl~eaLion IAro.il: .hotli. any rE!gard as to wht:!t:l'lC:!r Lhur 'e tAJds a pat·:ir:~nt or not, IAieJl, t.hal:. j~:. h .i~; problc~m. It w:il:l no l: hc'.q:Jp( :!n lAI·i l:h this administratjon. SOME HON. MEMBERS : HE!ar, hE!ar·! MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon. thE! rnelflber For' rornr~at Mountains . MR. WARREN: r.ll r .

S p E! a k e I" , I t h a n k t: h e 1 n:L n :i s l: u I" VE!r 'y much for h:i.s answer'. J l,v:i J 1 table a letter dabO!d June 7, M1~. SpE!akE!r, addressed to tl·1e· hun. 1n:inist1:'r -- [ bc:!liove l:.h:i .s goVE!rnrrwnt IAJas ~Ln polAIE!r on JunE~ 7 and it says the Grenfell Regional Health Services plane came in to S t . John ' s with s E! v e r· a l nur·ses and staff who came to go shopping. Now, Mr·.

Speaker, could the hon. g E! n t l (:'rna n do the h on o u I" a b J e t h .L n g and supply the fl:ight logs from May 2 8 to J u n E! 1) o n t h H c i" t::• n r-- lc! .1. 1 Regional Health Serv:ices fl:ights fl"orn St . Anthony to Sl:. John's dnd r'E!turn? Would 1:-he mtnt~;l:.E!r' l:ab1E• the logs for those flights? No. 13 R 6 '1-3

MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon. the Mj.ntster of HE!alth. SOM E HON. MEMBER S: Table the le tter . MR. DECKER: No, there is no need letter. I received It is from an A. district. to table the the letter. Simms in my As I pointE!d out in answer:ing thE! second question, obviously the Jn(:!rnber· chd not 1.istE!I1 to my answer·, :if the plane carnE! :i.n on Junl=! '7 ··and I hav1:! no doubt that i t: d :i. d -- i t c arne j n f o 1~ a rn E~ c:U c a 1 r~:~ason, and thE! nurses cu~E! staFf who are working w:ith the GrE!nf~'11 Association up on the Nor thern Peninsula .

And, as I said, when the plane is going to co me in to St . John 1 s anyway, if some of the staff want to come to St. John 1 s to go shopping or to go to a dance, that is their business. SO ME HON. MEMB ERS: Oh, oh! MR. HEWLETT: Coming to St . John 1 s on a wing and a tear . MR. DECKER: ---· ····- Absolutely! No big deal . But, Mr. Speak~~r, wherE! thE! corr·upt.ion could carne in would be if the plane were taken specifically to b~ing in a crowd of nurses who wanted to go shopping; now that would be abuse.

But ".if thE! planE! is corning anyway to car'ry out its mandate, that of- b1ninging ".in a patient, it would have come regardless, whether you had one person on that plane or whether you had e:ight people on that pJ.anE!, the planE! wou] d have come i. n any wa 1J at: no c> x t r a cos t . It seems to be perfectJy J.ogical. 1...64-4 June 1~), 1989 Vol XLI Now, if this HOUSE! or SOITIE!CHlE! :is going to dj_rE!Ct my departmE~nt to advise GrenfE•ll t:hat: they cdn no JongE!r car-ry theJ.r sta ff cH'ound, I urill do that, if \:hat becolll :C!S l:hE! thing.

But I will warn the people of this Province that ·it IJ.Jil.l be much more difficult to attract staff for Northern Newfoundland and Labrador if we do not put some littlE! extr·as in, for · exa1nplE!, the pr·iviJ.egE! of tr·avE!1]ing on the plane. MR. WARREN: 'M'i;;-:-""'s"p 0 a'k'e r ' MR. SPEAKER: cj'})·e-·- ·-.. Fi-;::;·;:-;~·-- --.. i: h E! 1 n e 1 n b e r f u (' T o r n q d t: Mountains. MR . WARREN : fhank you, Mr . Speaker . Thts is t-e -a-r, 1 t k (! Mr. a wing ~)pE!a k e r. and a tr:•ar, Let. HlE! a ~~ k the m:i ni~~ LE·r· anot :hPI" qUE!Stion. In the same 1eL\: .er·, M1A.

Speaker - I will quote before I tablE! .i.t ·- it says thdt. one felndle frorn Roddickt.on, a previous omployee who has not worked for the Grenfe11 for almost a year, carne to St. John's l:o h1?.lp her hu sband wi th h is apar·tmeni... No1.u, Mr. Speaker, could the ho n. gentle man tel l us the name of that per· so n who was a form"-H '' E•rn p loy(:;~e of the Regional Gr enfell Health Servic es Board who came here on this mission plan e to St. Joh n' s to help her husband to get into his new apartment. MR. SPEAKER : The han. the Minister of lieall:h . MR.

DECKER: Min , Speaker, I honestJy know about . there, No. 13 what l:hE! lflE!ITiber is ThE! 1E!t 'l:c r·, uJh~ich did noi: narne any do nol: talking he has person. R6 4-4-

HE! refE!rrE!d to a formE!!'' E!mployE!E! of GJ~enfE!ll. Now, the J.E!ttE!r said former and he applied it to a person in Roddickton. So they are just playing guessing games. I have no idea who the member is talking about. He is probably making SOITIE! - AN HON. MEMBER : (InaudibJ.e). MR. DECKER: Maybe the member could tell us why it was that on May 2 hE! and D.N. Peters took a government helicopter at the pr ice of $640 pE!r' hour for tLAJO hour s to go on a vi sit, when he was not in the government . It was during tr·ansition . MaybE! he can tE!ll us what that is all about. MR. WARREN : Mr.

Speaker, a final supplementary . .[1!L.. SPEAKER: The hon. the mc:•rnber for Tor·ngat Mountains . !.1.~~RREN: My final suppJ.ementar·y is l~o the minister. Would the minister, again, table the logs of those particular flights betWE!E!n May 28 and June 5? Finally, would the minister also confirm that many patients that corne out to ~Jt. John 1 s for· mE!dica1 attt~nt.ion, when they are released from the St. John 1 s hospitals on occasion haVE! beE!n given second choiCE! over staff i.~nd other peoplE! going back to St. Anthony? MR. SPEAKER: ThE• hon. the Minister· of Health. MR. DECKER : Mr.

Speaker, I cannot. confirm !~hat . Like the hon. rnE!mber, I haVE! probably hE!ard that bEdn~J said. I arn not aware of it. having l.6 4.~) JunE! 15, 1989 VoJ. XLI happE!nE•d in the last~ month Oi " so thc-lt I haV E! been rntn:i.s Ler of thi::; particular dE !par·tmenl~. I b('!lOI'HJ to the Northern Peninsula and I have hE!ard that said fr·orn time t:.o t:irne, but I can no 1: pr·ove it . and I doubt very much that the hon. member could prove it, Mr. Speaker. AN HON. MEMBER: Check it out . Ml~. DECKER: ou l:? I do How not out. could you check it know how that could be checkc•d MR .

WARREN: rhe logs of people Flying. Ml~. DECKER: Pe.ople- ·w-ho fly on the pJ.ane I t.ha 1:. is in thE! log . That i ~; no bLq problem. Oh, I know LAJhat: the hon. JnE!I'nbE!r ' is getting ai:. I hi'!Vr::! US(;!d t h E:1 G r E: n f e 11 p J. a n e . My LAd f e , tAJ h o is an employee of Grenfell, presf!ntJ.y ernpJ.oyed by Gr'enfeJ. ·J, :.i. s entitled to t:hc:! samE! bE!I1E!f:it c; as anyone e1se. She has uSE!d Hldt plane ov er the 1a s \~ Four · ur F LtH• year~~ that I have been for·l:unah:! E!nough to be a rnE•rnbE!r· oF l:h.i s HOUSE!. Oh, that is the d:.irl: !:.h e member :is trying to get at. SOME HON.

MEMBERS : i"!(!al~, hear! MR. DECKER: Now I know what the hon. member is getting at. Mr . Speaker, my wife - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. ~)PEAKER: OrdE!r, please! t1JL_J2J c K E R. : Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Ml~. ~3PEAKER : No. 13 R64 .S

I hear hon. mernbE!rS shouting. This is QUE:1stion PE•riod. If hon. members want to foll otAJ up w:i.t:h a question I wiJJ recognize them, but I will only recognize the official person that I have rE!Cognized. Other pE!ople, if you have questions, please wait and you will get recognized. The hon . the Minister of Health. MR. DECKER : I did not know that was thE! kind of sl:ilfle the han . rnE~mber was aftE!r. Mtn. SpE1aker, my wifE!, pr'oudly, is working with the Grenfell Association. ~3ho .is pr ·o ud to do that.

She hd s been LAJor ' king tAli t.h thorn for yea1ns and hopefully udll work on with them for years . She, too, is ent:ith!d to that policy. I have not taken advantage of i.t myselF stnce I bE!Carne a rn1:!mbE!r of Cabinet. I have been advised that maybe I should not do tt. Maybe someti .ITIE! I wiLL. because I. too, din E~nti tlE!d to i i: . If the thing is not vi .ablE!. I tAJill not. I tAJill not bE! taking the planE! to rnake a SpE!Cial trip. MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the mernber for St. John 1 s East . MS DUF F: Thank you, Mr . Speaker. I would like to direct thts question to the Premier. Mr.

Speaker, I tAJas very shocked last night to learn in the CommittE!€! of t:he EsU.mai:es on the Dc;•partrnE!ni: of Health that thE~ Province-wide mammography screontng program that was cornmi tted to or· announced by the prE!Vious governmE!nl: :is notJJ on hold, or under review, which, I takE .~ tt, :Ls a ouphE!ITrisrn Fol~ being L64-6 June 15, 1989 Vol XLI on the back burnE!r. and that there IAri.ll be absolutely no rnollE!Y :i.n t:hr! Est :i rna t: e s t: h :is year For that v E! r· y vi t.al. pr·ogr ·a rn. NotAl, :in uJ.etAJ of LhE· fact:, Mr·.

Speaker, that medical experts across Canada agree that routJ.ne screening for women over Fifty, and pE~riodic screening fo1" LAJOitlE!n at high risk ··-and by that I lllE~an people::~ who have brE!ast: cancer· J.n their family or who are showing early signs of breast cancer that 'JO pE!r cent of th1:!se ca~;es can be curE!d by ear<Ly dc:l..ccl:ion, t:hat t.hE!Se lAJOl'nun do not have l:.o d:i.e. And, :in view of the fact also, t h a t i n t h i s

I) r· o v i n r::: rc~ a t: \:. h e pI" E! S E! n t t :i IJI(;! , IAJE'! cJ (l 110 t h d V (;• s tatE!··- of ·- l: h E! --a r t E! q u i p rn e n i: .-.L n a n y hospital - St . Clar e 1s Mercy Hospital has jus t rece ntly rE !CEdVE!d a r.ornrn i l:men t and hc1S equi pm ent on ord er, bu 1: th ~?r'!'.) ls no statE! -of -tha -ar t e~qu i plll r? n t :in any otheln part: of tl'l'is Pro1Jincc! tAJO u 1 d thE! P r· E! rnj. e r' under t. a k e t·. o cornrrrit the necessa1ny funds for this very vital project? MR. RIDEOUT : ·:i"""h e y d e 111 and e d i ·t lAJ hE! n t hey lAJ r• r· e :i. n Opposition.

MS DUF F: Well, I did not: knoLAJ that: because! I was not here . But:. this pr·ogr•atTI is vital to t:he health of the women of NewfoundJ.and. and the rnoney :is therE!, bE!CdUSO WE! are shOlkLinq a pr·oject.ed surpJus. So, lJ.Jou1d l.he Prem:ir:1r connn:it to rE!pl.ace l:hat: tnont:!y in t.hat budc.:JeL :i.n the Oepa1ntmenl: oF Hea1l:h? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear '! No. J. 3 R () 4-6

MR. SPfAKER: ThP hon. the fll~t:nniE!I". .!:..Rii''!If_~_ WE J:.l~ : Mr'. SpE!ClkE!r, I do not knoiAJ that everything that the hon. mr:~rnber said is accur·ate. thE! full ansWE!r or· the thing, but. I question as notice the answer tomorrow. MS DUFF: Mr. Spt:.~akE!r. IVJR. SPEAKER: I do not know explanation to IAdll takE! her and give her ThE;-r,on.--rFie mE!tnbel" for St. John's East. MS DUFF: --·--·- ·- A supplementary to that, Mr.

Speaker, in December, 1988, the national Department of Health came out IA.dth a very s::i.gnificant study which put l~o rE!St, once and for all, the question of mammography screening, which is a relatively simple pr·ocedurc.:~, sho1,~.dng that thP benefits far outweigh the risks, and th[~t this IAJhole sj.tuaUon of not btdng ablE! l~o haVE! access to early d~:!tE•ction for brE!ast cancE•r causes a tremE!ndous amount of unnecessary anguish to women in Newfoundland. Why does the Pr'E!rrtier or Government. of ·this Pr·ov:i n c E! give such a lotAJ pr:ior i ty to that very vital program? It is not unheard of.

It has been asked for in other programs. We are spending $683 million on Health this year. Why IAJas no priority given to this program in this year's Health Estimates? MR. SPEAKER: -=nlE'! '1i(;-~tF1 e Pre rni e r· . PREMIER WELLS : Mr. SpeakE!r, I teJ.J. Uw hon. lllE!rTibE:!r aga.in, I do not knoiAJ right at this moment. the <HlSIAJer to the quest :ion shE! r a is E• s , I do not k n OIJJ L647 June 1:-•, 1989 Vo1 XLI that all of hE!r pr'em:ises ar·e correct, but I IArilJ. chE!Ck and I will g:ive her the full anSIAJE!r on the total ma t.ter l:omorTow . MR. SPEAKER: Questjon Period has expired.

Notices of Motion MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance . DR. KITCHEN: Mr. Spuaker, I g.i1Je notice l:.h,~l · r 1.1.ri11 on tomor'I"OIAJ 1novr~ thdL lh(· House resolve itself into a Corrnnitl~ee of' l:hE! WhoJ.e t.n con~;:i.del" c E! r· i: a :'L n 1\ C! sol u 1: ions p u I" t a i. n i r1 q the Advancing or Guaranteejng CE!rt.ain Loans madE! under· l~he and Guarantee Act, 1957. MR. E1AKER: Ml". SpoakE!r. MR. SPEAKER: 1·:.0 of Lodn The hon . the Gover nu1e n t. fl 0 lJ s (' LE!adc~r. Ml~. BAKER: Mr·. Speaker, I lAJondE!r if tAJe couJ.cl revert: to Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees?

ThE!rE• was<'< lot of noisr:!. You s a '.i d t hat. , b u t. t. he f :i r· s t l. h j n q I heard was Notices of Motion. I h a V E! S 0 m f:! d 0 C U Ill E! n t S I I~J 0 U J d J :i k l'! to table. MR. SPEAKER: Does the HousE• agree t.:o rE!VE!r't Lo Presenting Reports by ~3tanding and Special Committees? SOME fiON. MEMBER~!: Agr('H:!d . ~-R . S P E A K E 1\ : It :.is agreed . No. 13 f\ 6 4.'/

, .... Presenting Reports by Stand ing and Specia l Comm itee s MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Go v "-~ r nrne n t HousQ LE!a der. MR. BAKER : Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I would lik e to, fi rs t of all, tabl e s om e MCs that were pr ecomm it ments. Th ese pr ecomm it ments w ere neces sary for a num ber of reaso ns: Some of th em had to do wit h the ord ering of t e x t boo k s a h 121 ad o f time • and all tha t kin d of thin g, an d som e of th em had to do wit h the De par't ment of Develo pme nt an d To ur ism. wh ere there ha d to be pr· e-com rni tments in term s of som e mark et ing and so on . AN HON.

MEMBE R: Special Warrants . MR . BAKU\: Special Warrant, yes. I alrE!ady 1nentioned the Department of Education. There were some supplies that had to be ordered in t(:~rrns of supplic,~s for maintenance and equipment, thing s that are normally kept on hand. Th e pri nti ng of Tou ris m l ite ra tur e has to be don e a head of time; th e Depar tment of Educa ti on for exam purpo se s. mat eria ls t hat had to be ord ered ah ead of ti me. The purcha se of sc hool text book s mak es u p a very larg e amount of th is total .

I would like to table nin e Minu tes -in-Council having to do wit h pr ecomm it ments of f un ds. Also, Mr . Speak er, this, li ke t he previou s onE!, is to m Et(:~ t ce rtai n req uirements that are in h~ g is1 at io n. I tAtoul d }j ke to ta ble forty-one Spec ial Warr ant s, L64 .8 Jun E! E>, 1989 Vol XLI basically i:he Consol :idat: ed Fund SE !r'vices. I tAJ:i11 ju st not :(! so me of them for hon. members. The ConsoJ.i.dated Fund ::)c!r·vj .ce s, there is about $14 mill ion that had to do Lui t h sever · an c P pay • t h l'! voluntary early retirement plan, and that kind of thing.

Ther e is abou t $2.6 milljon in warrant s hav ing to d o w it h guarant ee s that Uw g o u e rnnt f~ n t gav e, b ut nev er did brin g \:o the House of Ass embl y. and co mp anies hav e sin ce defaul b?d on !.hE· pa ym ent s a nd ·the at uou nts tAJC:'r'(· pai d . Some of t he s e a rn o u n t: s , r.ll r . Speak er·, I should poi nt out , w~ ~r c=· p1Aot este d by l:he Co mp l:r·ol1<H' Ge neral at t.he t i m t~ , so that :) ~~ about $4 .5 mill io n in war rants.

The Execui":ive CounciJ has $960,000 in war·rants, and most of thai: is r' E! 1 a l: e d t o e i t h E! r o v e J'T u n s i n L h C! offshol~E! negot .i.ations, professional service s. The severence pay in re1dt :ion to l::hE! much --heralded change of cotnrnand bE•tween Pr·emiers P E•ckr --oi ~cJ i:'.lnd Rj .deout., there :1s a 1-:i .Lt]p over· half a million do11dr' s for that . There are a number of Finance warrants here, Mr. Speaker, totalling ovE•r $4 111:i.l1ion, and just about alJ of these are in relation to Newfoundland Enviroponics, the grePnhouse.

There is about $3.~) m:i]] :ion ·.i.n Special Warrants for Developme nt and Tourism. One that 1 would particu1arly like to note is $3 million that is requjred for an intr:~rE!St subsidy t:o the Mat~ysl~otJJn ~~hipyard . 1 would J:ikE! L·o pcdnl. out, Mr ·. Sp, ;!ak E!r·, that in prev:i.ou s years l: lri . s subsidy lAJa s a] t.lla y s p a :i cl by Spec ial lrJarTi:Hlt . but Lh .i.s YhH ' lAJE' have done :it pt"oper·J.y becau ~;e iL is an antic:ipatE!d, known No . 13 f\GLl-8

expE!nse and should neVE!r ' bE! donE! by Special Warrant, and we have put the amount in th1'! budget as it should have been done for years. Fis~wr·.ies has lAJar·r·ants totalling aJ.most ~;14 . million, $13 .9 miJlion, and some of the amount is a write- --down on loans, thE! Fisheries Loan Board, about $3 million of it . But therE! is an amount in hei~E!, Mr. Speaker, of $8 million that relates to the Eldorado Seafoods and those operations. I believe these were Special Warrants obtained back in September, October or some thing of last year·. I am not su re exactly about l:he t:irne, but I could look and see.

So that is $8 million there. Forest:r y has only one warran t here which is pretty straightforward. Cone collections, an excelle nt year for cones, so they had to collect their cones while the going was good. Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development has ei ght warran ts of about $7 million, and these are, again, fairly straightforward. One of them wa s an additional amount that is kind of bothersome, an additional amount of $2 .5 million for Newfoundland Farm Products beyond what was exp ecte d in terms of having to subsi dize Newfoundland Farm Products.

Again, the!re is another small amount in here relating to the greenhouse, relating to Sprung, which had to do with paying the poin tsetta grower s. ThE!rE! is Career Development and Advanc(•d Studies, an extra $6 1rr:iJ lion for funding MUN. Culture pretty L6ll -9 Recreation and straightforward, June E>, 1989 Youth, standard VoJ XLI overruns. Th ere is one {:hing I tAJould like to po:in"l : out her~~. Mr. Speaker, the ne w funds of $1.2 million for the Rabies Eradication P r·ogram that is inc 1 utlr:•d u n<.l er this Special Warrant. Education, having to do with teachers 1 salaries.

There is a Special Warrant needed because there was a lar·g e r inc rE•a ~; E! t.han expected in teachers 1 salaries. AN HON . MEMBER : And an extra pay period . MR. BAI<ER: fhat was another extra pay period million. Thi.s rni]J:i.on, l t.hj .n.k. t h .i n g , b u I~ cost. abou L .is about l:. h (' ~; 14 ~H In Health, there were five warrant s totalling about ~20 million. Mr. Speak er, in Health there are so many o~en - end~d programs that there j s not rea11 y much possibility of contro1 in the ex pe ndi tu.res there I simply b0 cause the programs are open -ended.

In Just-ice about ~j;2 Jni11ion, a coupJ.E! of war-rant .s. The f.inaJ. ones are in La bour, hav ing to do with, I bedieve, the extr·a hearings that were necessar y because of the dispute bPtween the fish unions ahd this cost an extra couple of hundred thousand dollars over and above what was expected. So, Mr . Speaker, the re :i.s a totnl of about $80 million in Special War-ran ts . Some of them, as I point ed out, are standard I normal procedure and will be proceeded with in the course of events by th:i s govflrnlfl€ ll"lt as I: he 1 r~:::l ~­ gov ernment did. Some oF i:hern, I would l:i ke to point out, Mr·.

Speaker , were totally wr ong, don impro perly , and th(:l Conrptrol le r General was fairly active in No. 13 r\ 64 .9

pointing this out and, in fact, apologized for some cases where amounts slipped through that should no t have slipped through, and I would like to say that that kind of Special Warrant, Mr. Speaker, and the kind of MCs that are issued and never br·ought j.nto th e House, will not happ en again. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear! Answ ers to Questions for which Not ice has been .Given ~R . SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Social Services . MR . EFFOr~D: Thank you, Mr . Speaker.

On Yesterday's Order Paper there was Question No.8 which asked me. as Minister of Social Services, for, "An itemized list of expenditures for any office equipment, personal equipment, furnis hings and photographs purchased for the Minister's Office since Ma y S, 1989." I would like to table this, Mr. Speaker . but in doing so I would have to highl ight a couple of things in order to show IJJhy I djd have to spend a small amount of mone y in my office . In the Department of Social Services, the Minis t e r ' s Of' f i c e in 1 9 8 8-8 9 , th e forme r M inister of Social Ser vices (Mr.

To bin) spent this money: H·igh -lite fra ming, $1,268; filming and developing, $1,000; lapel pins, $900; Chri.strnas cards, $1 ,000; carner·a, ~i897; dictating rna c hi n e • $ 1 l 1 4 . 40 ; boo k cas e , · $ 1 9 0 ; microwav e oven, $240; and filing cabi nets, Mr . Speaker, $872. L6':>0 June 1':), 1989 Vol XLI Since becorninq MirTisl:E!r of ~3oc:ia1 ~)erv:ices I had to pur·chase f:iLing cabinets bE!CaUSE! I could no!: find the ones that were formerly purchased. ~30M[-: H_ON_. -~-EM_B Eg~: Hear. hE!ar! MR.

EFFORD: -------ThE!Y we1~E! gone, Mr. ~3p~;!aker. so I purchased filing cabinets to do thE! neCE!SSary Filing I hatJE! to do as ndnistel~, $654-.00, and genur·a] off.ice supplies that I neE!dud l:o put in the filing cabinets and filing pins and so on, $11L.OO, M1~. SpE•akel". SOMF HON. MEMBERS : I-IE!ar. hE!ar! MR. EFFORD: Also, Mr . Speake l", on yester·day's Order Paper there wa s a question to ask the Minist er oF Soc lal Services t.o lay upon thE! Tabl e of the.

House the foll owin g information: "An itP-rniZf<!d lj st of travel expenditures incurred by the Minister, his Executive Assistant or any oth <2!r rnernb~r of the Ministe r's personal or Departmental staff who rnay have accom paniP-d him sjnce May 1989." To explain to l:hE! House, Mr. Speaker, last weekP-nd 1 travelled to Stephe nv ille, Friday and Saturday, and during thos"' days I had s:ix meetings . I worked until Saturday evening un til 6:00 o 'clock. My a.irfare was $391.20.

I had no accom modations; my IJ.Jife who was out th ere on other business pajd f'or the r()om and I stayE!d lJJil:h her at no cost to \:he government . SOME HON. MEMBERS: --·---·--·-·--·---·--1-ir:>.ar. ht::!ar·! MR. EFFORD: Mr·. ~~poakE!Y', I stay0.d in Cor"ner· No. 13 1\6 1)0

Brook. By bustness 1..uas in Stephenville and Stephenville eros sing 1..uhere I had my meEd ::ings Friday and Saturday. I did not rent a car. A very good friend of rnine loaned lnE! his car· and I t1naveJ.lPd with no E!Xpl':~nse to the government. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar! MR. EFFORD: And, Mr. Sp ea ker, le t me co mpar e a trip taken by the form er Mini ste r of Social ServicElS (Mr ..

Tobin) who car ed so much abou t the poo r sta rving peo pl e of this Province, a Euro pean ·tri p to Nor way to see wh at impact o~ l fl owing out of the ta ps of Newf ound land woul d have on the li ves of social ser vices recipi ents. MR . RIDEOUT: ---··- On a point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : On a point of order, the l.eader of the Opposition. MR . RIDEOUT: The han. gentleman cannot take the House on his back, Mr. Speaker. You wouJ.d not know but he owns the place, after his leader always talking about decorum and al1 that kind of stuff. MR. EFFORD: You do not want to hear it. MR.

RIDEOUT: Sure 1..ue want to hear it, Mr. Speaker. We will be equally as interE!St.E!d, Mr. Speaker, in hearing the twelve month totals IAJ~H:~n the' hon. gentleman gr:d:s l:t..UE!1VE! months .in office as I..IJEd1. Then tAle w:ill comp<.H'E! apples and apples and not apples with oranges. f1ut, Mr. Speaker·, Uw question on L6 ') 1 June l':i, 1989 Vol XLI the Order Paper was specific. ThE~ quest io n did not as k fo r in forma tio n prior to a ce rtain date. The quest io n asked for informat ion fr om May 5 to a ce rtain dat e. Now , Mr. Speaker, the rul es arEl clear.

The hon . gentleman cannol : fl agran tl y ab use the rules and provid e o~he r information that we ma y at some time wan t to ask for. Aut the question was specific and th:a hon . gentleman should provide specific information , sto p abusing the rules of the House and stop tr ying to tak e the House on his back. MR . BAKER: Min. SpeakE!r. MR. SPEAKER: rhe hon . t.he GOUE!r'nJfiC!I"' t: I lou s C! LeaclE!r. MR . BAKER: Thank you, Mr . Speaker . To th at po int of order, th t.: member ha s been asked on th e Ord c::r Paper a qu estion.

The purp ose for us -Lng the Order' Pap er to ask such a qu es tion is because nor ma ll y thuse questions r e ql~j re longer, mor e::~ detailed answers . The ~r~inis b:H' is si mply prov idi ng SOlliE ! backgro und to his par ticular answer . [ would suggest, Mr. ~:ipeaker·, t.hr.~ ·t ·..i.!; pPrfectly okay and I t .. Jould CE!rt.ainJ.y say to the l.eacle1 n of' Lhe Opposition that if he cannot stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. SO ME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar! MR. RIDEOUT : Mr . Speaker . MR . SPEAKER : The han. the Leader' of' l. h (! Opposition . MR. RIDEOUT: No . 13 R651

Mr. Spealo:!r', let me say to the Go v e r nrn E! n t H o u s P L e a J e r· 1: h a t , o 1 d man, you can bring on whatever heat you got becauSE! I can take it. That i~~ not the point. SOME HON , M(MB E RS : Hear, hear! MR. RID EOUT: We listened to the hon. gentleman in his fi rst responsse and, in fact. could have raised a po int of ord er, but we did not . We let him go on and have a litt le bit of enjo ym ent. L'>Je do no t mind that . We are big boys an d girls . WE! can take it , too. Bu t the fac t of the matte r is , Mr.

Speaker, that the question on the Order Paper was spE!Cific, it askE!d . thE! rnin:istr:!r' for spE!cific information as of a spc!cific datE! and betlAJeen specific dates. The minis-tE!r has no l''ight 1:o tr·y to amuse us for thE! r·est of the afternoon going back for the next two months, t:hrE!E! months before that, three years before that, sevr:•nteen years bE!fOrE'~ that, twenty-five years before that. Let him give the specific information that he was asked for, thE!n WE! can •~11 laugh at it, and at some other point maybe the heat may come up again. MR . SPEAKER: To that point of order .

I would po int out to hon . members that Written Questions basically adhere to the sa me rul es as Oral Qu estio ns, and hon. members should not ra ise points that are argumentative, but answer the qu est ion precisely. I ask the han . gen tleman to do that. MR . EFFORD : Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I apologize for hav:ing out the fact that the L652 June 15, 1989 to point European Vol XL.I trip cost accommodation for one weEd<, $1,496, E!l'lb:!r'ta:inmE!nl:, $'1 ·41; meals, $660; laundry, $107; dirfaJnE:", ~t3, 067, lAJhilr:! thu pE!Oplo of this Province were starving, Mr. Speaker.

And L tJ..Jould like:! to table that, Mr. Speaker, to the hon . rnembt~r . SOME HON. MEMB ERS: Hc!ar, hear! MR. WARREN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . MR. RID EOUT : It is a lonq bends. Wait Europe. MR. SPEAI<ER: ·-·--·--··- .. ····--··-·--- ······· ··- road unti] l:ha t you has go nu 1:.0 The han. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. W. CAfn ER: Mr. Speaker ·, I want to table ansL\Jers to quE!st:. :i.ons put Lo rne by the han. Opposition House Leader.

Question number 26 "An 'il:t::!lni.z.cod list of travel expenditures incurJnE!d by l:he M:inisi':E '!r·, his Executive Assistant or any other ITIE!JnbE!r of the M·.in'.i s tE!r 1 s pE!i''Sona l Ol" Departmental staff LIJho lfldy havE· accompanied hirn s:inCE! May 1)." Mr·. Speaker, I am happy to Lab1e the di1SIJJE!rS (:O that qUE!S1:ion. fhe tota1 out of tolAJn tr·avE!l for· mysE !lf and ITIY Deputy MiiTister· l:_o Ottawa for a combined cost of $1,800, using regu1cH' a.i.r <.'lnd rather inexpensive rooms in Ottawa. Also, Mr.

Speaker, thE!Y a~~kE!d Jm' to tablE! :infor-mation, a 1ist "oF expenditures for any office e q u :L p rn e n t , p c~ r s o n ,<) 1 e q u i p me n 1: , furnishings and photographs purchased for the Ministcor 1 s Off:i.ce s:i .nce May. 11 Thl '' i~n~::tAJcr· Lo that, Mr. Spealu:!r, (;!XCrc•pt r·~or d few pencils, pens, and paper' No. 13 1\6 1)2

cl:lps, is zero. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Heal~, hE!ar! MR . SPEAKER : The Minister of Development . MR . FUREY : Mr. Spr:1aker, c!ga'in with r·espect to similar questions put by the hon. the Opposition House Leader, the answer to quE!S tion Number 18, the total amount 11 of E!Xp!OHlditures for· office equipmen t, personal E!qu'i.prntmt, Fur·ntsh:ings and photographs purchased For· ti·H :! Mir -:i s l:E!r 1 s OfFiCE! 11 -·- IJE!partnlE!nt of Devulopm E!nt -- 11 sj_nc e May 5, 11 is $1,'74 ·9.49, wil:h a cornplE! l:e and itemized stat ement attached.

With respect to question Number 21, the total amount of travel expenditures incurred by the MinistE!r', his EXE!CUtive Assistant, rnember;s of thE! departmental staff of the Deparl.rnt:~nt of DeV(;'Jopnwnt. s·.ince May- S, 1989, is $4,066.99 and I attach a colflp] ete br·eakdown of that, and what: it was used for. Hds compares to $223,600 by my predeCE!ssor for a year·, which says that we are well below the average, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS : --·-·---- ·--··--- ··-----··--·- HE!ar, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Education. DR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I tJ.JouJd like to table SOME HON.

MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! DR . WAr~REN: L653 June 15, 1989 Vo1 XU Mr. Speaker, I IAJOuld J:i ke to t:ablP an answer to a qu estio n put to the Mini ste r of Edu cation by thE\ bon. Hou se Le ade r as k:i.n g for an ite miut d list of expendittH·es !ni\\de fo r equipm en t, personal equip m€!ht , furn ishjng s a nd photographs purchas ed for the Minister 1 s Off ice si nce May 5. I want to inf orm th e Hou se that no such purcha se s have been mad e. SOME HON. MEMBERS : HE!ar, hear! Orders of the Day Ml~ . BAKER: Order 2 . MR. SPEAKER : Commi t.teE! of SuppJ.y .

The hon. the member for Grand Bank . SOME HON. MEMBERS : HE!ar, hear! MR. MA TTHEWS : Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I arn beginning to say my self, Mr ·. Speaker, not aga'in. So I know members oppo~dte must be sayi .ng it · evc~r· more so. MR. R. AYLWARD : But they are not lE!aving . MR. MATTHEWS: No, thc~y arE! not lE!aving becauSE! the recess period has not been authorized yet. They should take it immediately after Question PE!riod.

But, Mr . thing, we much in things. othE!r day, No. 13 Speaker, there is one talked about dE!Cor··um so the Hou~~E' and ol :he1· ' ThE! pI" E! m :i r:! r s d ·.L d L h (' in t:hE! l:it·.:t.Je spat Lha'l : 1\65 3

WE! had, that it IAJas a r·ef1ection on the perso n who said :i. t more so than the person who recEdvGid it. I think we witnes sed here today something about the quality of people giving answers as well . But, of course, the Minister of Social Services has not changed. He has changed in every other tJJay since he became Minister of Social Services but getting dotAJn in the mud, he has kept that characteristic with him. He has lost a lot: of his fight but he .is still very, very capable of ·getting down in the mud.

To think, Mr. ~3pE!akor, that I rea1Jy had h-J.m on thE'' hook over· the Privat:e ~3ector Employment Program when I was minister. I do not think I was too decent . I think I did the right thing for the integrity of the program. But I would not ta rnish his name aJ.l over l:hE! Province, so I let him off the hook, and then we see wh at he t-ried to .do here ag ain today. As the Leader of the Opposition to1d him, it is a long road that has no turns and some roads have tu rns that are sharpe r than others. Ml~. EFFORD : A point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR.

SPEAKER: A point of order, the hon . the Minister of Social Services. MR. EFF OIW : It is not not~rnal for a metnbE!r on E!ither side of this HouSE! to threaten anothc:!r membe r, bu ·t I want to sa y very cl ea rly, wh ile I wi 11 as k for His Honour ' s r u 1 in g on that, if the member opposite have anything to sa y about the past of this Minist er of Social Services, pl ease tell it to the general public. I have nothing to be ashamed of in my past and I lAJi1l ned: have~ anything to be l.654 JunE• 15, 1989 Vol Xl.I ashamed of in my future. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! -- MR. MATTHEWS : 11-k. SpE:~aker. MR.

SPEAKER : The han . t:ht::~ tnE!InbE!r Foi~ GJ~i·:-J.nd Bank. MR. MATTHEWS: If he had said he has noth i.ng t:.o be proud about :in his past, t·hen maybe we would have agreed on this s j d (! ' b u t: I cl 0 l1 () t. lA Iii l'l t. t 0 g (' t. into a bit of a spat. MR . SPEAKER : Order', pJeaSE!! I thought the hon. gentleman wantE!d to speak to l:hE! po.i.n l: ol: ordE•r. ThE!re :i.s a point of oJ~deJ" and I haVE! to address :i.l:. I did not hear the hon . memb er rni.'lke etny threat, but th e hon . memb er knows he is not suppos ed to rn ~ k e a threat .

If the hon. gentle 1nan made a threat I am sure he wi1 1 du the honourable thing. Ot he r th an that, I rul e there wa s no po int of ord er, ju st a poi.nt of d.if fe rence. between ttAIO hon. gent]te!llWn. The hon. the member J'"ot~ Crc<nd r~ank. MR. TOBIN: Tel] us about the stoves. MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you VE!ry much, Mr. ~'3peaker·. a t:hrE!at. I I apologize if I made guess what: I should ha\JE! the hon. ministE!Y' is Lhat said to he t.v:i.11 be under very close the Oppositjon as he Fulf:i.ll his respons~i.biJ 'ity. MR. R. AYLWARD : sCJ~ut.iny by alt: ·.etnp'l:.s l'.:o tninis l:er · Lal VIlE!

C.H'I~ not going cr·awl·in<::J aJ~ound No. 13 R654 .

:in baSE!rnents. .~Ll1_0_IT H.f~~ : That is right. We arE! not going dotAJn in basernE•nts cJ~atJJl:ing around aLl hours of the nj_ght t.o tr·y and g£d: things on this minister, as he tried to do with this minister.

We are not going to do that, because, of course, aft.E!r thE! budget of a couple of weeks ago we cannot afford to buy batteries for l:he flashlights. fo hear that Minister of Social Services get up jn this House today and try and personally attack thE· forrnE!r Mird.st.E!r of ~3ocial ~3e invices tJJho, he said, was SUppOSE!d l'.:o be COnCE'InnE!d for t.he underprivileged and the social assistance recipients of the Province.

Just last lAJeek he said he was going out in thE! clothes closets of the social assistance recipients of the Province trying to g(~t back usc•d clothes to r·ecoVE!r his $8 milJ.ion t:hclt he wants back frorn them. That is his concer·n for t.he sod .al assj stance recipients of the Province. One of the lowest increases in the social assistance budget ever in the history of t:h.is ProvinCE• came in under this minister since he became Minister of Social Services. That is what we are dealing with, Mr. Speaker. I tAJould just like to I~E!fE!r' back, :Lf I could, Mr.

Speaker, and talk for· a moment about thE! first month of performance of the - new adrninistr·ation. MR. WARREN : l'he first report card. MR . MA TTHEWS: Yes, the first li U:le nc•por·t card on what they have done. L6 ~> 5 June 15, 1989 Vol XLI fhey have raised gasoline taxes in Uds Pr·ov:ince, Mt". Speah!r. They have added to the financial hardships of students at our p o s t --s E! c o n d a r y e d u c a 1:. :i o n a 1 institutions by increasing the tuition feE!S by 10 pE!r cent. They haVe e J. imina ted thE! P r :i.

Vat(~ ~iCC t 0 r' E In p 1 o y rn E! n t P l" o g r c'l m lAJ h i c h c r· E! a i: e d 3,000 jobs in this ProvinCE! ]c.'lst year, $7. S million put in by t.hr~ government and $7.5 million by the private sector of the Province. HlE'y have eJ.:i .minal:ed that., Min. Spoak::!r', and a ppt~o x j_ITta t.e 1 y Pr·ovince. indet::!d, 3,000 d :i d illJJi.'l y lJJ .i. 1: h j 0 b ~; :i I' I t h j ~:. T h e y h a v o d :i s c r i rn i n a 1:. ~· J c'l g a. in ~. t·: chi1dren who deve1op fa!;t1:•1" than othE!rs. ThE! sarno d<JI':! ch-.i.lc:Jir·c~n, uiiC! bigger than t.he othPr', unc ha~.

Lo pay tax 1:! s on c 1oth in g , t: he o L1·1 c· r· does not. ThE!Y have donE:! l:.hal':, Mr. Speaker. ThE!Y hc1ve initiated UlE! c1os:i.nq of tiAJO hospitals in tiH! pr'ov.incu, Mr·. SpeakE:'r, anothe1n thing ol L\Jhi.ch they should bE! very pr·oud, cul.:t:i.ng out 110 jobs. Thr·eE! thousdnd jobs under· thE! pr·ivate sector· and one hundred and ten by closing out fifty-three hospital beds on tho Burin Peninsula, when throughout the campaign they preached about opening more beds. MR. 1~. AYLWARD: No rna111rnography pt~ograrn. MR. MATTH EL'IlS: That is right . No mammography program.

No funding for that, when, as an Opposition, they demanded that this governmen t bring in a program to addr ess i:hi. s V E• Y' y , V E! I~ y Sf! I'' j 0 U ~~ pI" 0 b] (' lfl a r1 d hE•alth crisis foln lAJOIII<O!I'l ol l:hf:' Provi.nce. ThE!Y lAJE!I~c~ r·oi .ght :in demanding that th .is govun·Hnu1·1t do that. Here they cOITlE! back, !:hey take over the power of this No. 13 f\6:)~)

·~ Province on April 20 and no provision in the budget for a much nePdc:!d seJ~vice for' women oF thi s PJ"ovince . Of course , there are a couple of t.hings that make you wond er abo ut this government 1 s priority for the wom en of thi s Province . The mammography program is one. The elimination of the Occupational Integration Program for Wom an is another . No mon ey in the Occupational Integration Program for Women this year. A fir'st-year program and all th ey provid E'd for 't is $250 ,000 for carryov er proj ects that carr ied over into the new fiscaJ year .

So that should tell you, and it will tell the women of this Province, just how important women really are to thj s new administration. They do not mean anything, because two ver y, ver y important programs have been eliminated . This was a very, v er~ progressive program, the Occupational Integration .Program for Women , devised in consultation with the Provincial Sta ·tus of Women, devised in ,consultation with the Women 1 s Po lic y Office. Wher e is the Wom en 1 s Policy Office gone wit h the new administration? It is another office and another division that is nowhere to be found.

And, of course , we all know that part of the gov ernmen t 1 s problem is that wh en they took office they fire d very exp erie nc ed and very competent top civil servants. Mo st of them, like any new government, are themselves very inexperienced, and you rely on your best civil servants to give you adv ice and to dev elop your budget and programs. But wh at did this government do? It fired the 1nos t competent ci vil st:!r van l:s, who have worked for years in thjs ProvincE•. L656 June 1:), 1989 VoJ. XLI Ml~ . TOBIN : And :LndivJ.duaJ. packages have cost: o 1; e r' $1 m'i ll ion . MR .

MATTHEWS : And individual severance will cost in excess of $1 MS VERGE: ---·---··--Do you mean that for one? MR. MATTHEWS: ·---- .. ··--··-·-- Yes, just for one . MR. TOBIN: packages million. There were two people who accept ed close to $1. Jn:.lllion. MR. MATTI -IEW3: Thdt is r:i(j ht. Thal .. ·Ls wh<iit is happening. Of course, all those dE!tai1s wi1l beconw clc!ar -- MR. TOBIN: Two people for $1 million bucks each. MR . MATTHEWS: over th0 next number of days, Mr. Speaker . I would just like to say, Mr .

Spe ake r, being as gu ilt y as anybody else in this Hou se of badgering back and forth and disrupting on times, again th ere seems to be five or six differ ent conversations, and of cou rse t know why that is. MR. R. AYLWARD : Clyde has left, has he? MR . MATTHEWS: The teacher has left the classroom. He djd not gran t recess bul: he left himself. And I understand that bncau sa he js a very busy rnv.n and he ha s rnoE! I:i. ng s and other business of the Prov ince to deal wi t:h. But as soo n els he gO('~S Lhr·ough thP door, as ~;oon a~~ the s:ignal comes that: the pr:i.v(~U:· No. 13 R6 :,6

elevator· has gonE! dol.un, i:hE!n whole attitude and behaviour the members opposite change. MR. R. AYLWAIW: -----------Some of them, not all of them. MR . MAT TH EWS : Not all of them. MR. R. AYLWARD : the of Phil Warren is thE!re, Rex is not back. MR. MATTI~ EWS : Some of them ar'E! VE't'Y good, but I must have to say - MR. R . AYLWARD : Murphy goes off his head. MR. SPEAKER: Ordc:!r, pleasE!! I normally would not interr~pt the hon. mernbPr, but ht:~ seE!ms to haVE! lots of time, so I am just going to make this comment.

He cornrnen'l:E!d on order in the House, convE:~rsations going on, and that is absolutely true. I have noticed jt myseJf and I did not get up because sometimes you detect that. an hon. member IAJants silence, and I believr:•d that the han. member for Grand Bank did not call for· silence. Had hE! callE!d for silence, I would have done so. But that has been the procedure. If sorne members want silenCE!, but I have obserVE!d OVE!r the YE!ars that the han. member for Grand Bank does toler·ab' a little?. bit of bantering, and I apologize. MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, r"'r'. ~3peaker·.

And, as usual, your obSE!I"Vclt:ions ar·e corrE!Ct and your· obsr:!rvat :ions dl"e spot on. No, I do not want silE•nce becausE•, as I said jus ·l: a feu.J shor·t days ago, Mr. SpeakE•r, if we arE! going to bf:! absolutE!ly L6S7 June l'.J, 1989 VoJ XLI silent in this House of Ass~~rnbly, if we are not going to share humour, then ·.indeed we \AJou1d have found a usE• fo1n the hospital beds that 1Ari11 be:! closed in Cr·ancl 13.:Hlk and St. Lawrence bPcause i:huy could set up a psychiatric ward for the fifty-two of us, and 1 sincerely believe that. AN HON. MEMBER: Old soccer injuries. MR.

MATTHEWS: Old soccer injuries, yes, take care of a few of thern as well. And, Mr·. Speaker·, speaktn~; or · soccer, I must say to LI';E• Mi.nisl:f·r· of Finance that manys a time sine~ thr,~ ruesday that he:! bl"oughi:. i.n l:h::• Budget document, I felt Jik~ taking that document and sloq(]:i.ng it as high as I could, f'-1r'. Spr:!aker, likE! WE! used to l<ick l.:I'"ICO! oJ.d soccE•r baJ.J. -fhE! higher you sloggE!U it morE! thE! cr·oL•.Jd useu l:o roar' OllE' time. It had noth::i n~; Lo do w:ith the sk:il1 of l:hu ga1nC!. But if ever a budget deserved a slog, is this one. MR. R.

AYLWARD : Make sure the rn:i.n:l.f;ter .. i.~: hoJd::i.n~J on to it. MR. MAfTHEWS: NoiAJ, Mr·. SpE•ai<er', IAJ:i.th a]] dt .IC' rr:!spect, I u.Janl: to r·e l::,:!r· l:o sornethings that were said about previous budgets in this House, and I w6uld like to refer to Ha .nsard of April 12 , 1988, when an hon. member of this Hou se spok e on the budget dnd he said now people are al ways happy when a budget does not slap increases and taxes on people, which we all agree.

And, of cour'SE!, Mr'. ~3ptc•ake:!l~, u.ri.l:h a 11 d u E! r' e s p e c t: l. h e M f lA d n d \: I H:· rn e 1r1 b eO! r I a 10 r e FE! r r i n q l: o i s Y our· Honour·. I hopE" I havE! pcr'ITJ:is~ :.:ion t:o us eO! this dnd I hopE> I <:tin no l: No. 13 R6r:i7

doing anyth:ing unpc)lrliamE!ntal~y by referr·ing to this Hansard. And he goe:~s on furthE!( ' to say, 'Lo and behoJ.d to the government in this Province that increases further the retail sales tax in this Pr·ovince or, Mr·. Speaker, tht::~ income tax,- both of which are the highest -.in Canada. So, Mr·.

Speaker, we cannot go around applauding the government and commending the government because they did not increase reta il sales tax, or' bE•cause they did not incrE!ase income tax.' Now that =is talking about Lhe last. budget; not. this Minister of Finance's budget. 'LEd: us get rid of thal: atl:itudE! in this Pr·ovincE!. Wn ht-lve r·e ached the Ii1nit.! And I say that bE•caUSE! the Minister of Finance in his Budget Speech said that we were not the highest taxed people in Canada.

So I think it is VE!ry, very important, again, to po:l nt out \:he contradiction that has existed between this party, when they we1~1:! in Opposi t·ion, and now that they are in government. "ThE!r'e can be no rnor·e increases in the retail sale~~ tax. TherE! can be no more increases in the income tax ." That was thE! position of the Liberal Party just a year ago. "We are already the high~::~st taxed people in Canada with respect to retail sales tax and with respect to income tax, Mr. Speaker. We are the highest taxed people in Canada. That is i r r· e f u tab l e .

"So how can a party who believed last year - AN HON. MEMBER : Is it backupabJe? MR. MATTHEWS: No, :l.t :i. s not bac kupab1~:' . The thing \:ha-t has bE!E! n rnost backupable s:i.nce April 20 is the L6 58 June 15, 1989 Vol XLI han. rninis{:er h:J.rnself. OF cour·se, you cannot: back him up much rnor·e because he will be out in the COI'Tidor, and I a111 sur·e t.hat l:.he Premier'- - MR. A. SNOW : He is not getupable. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hc~ar, ~1E!al~! MR. MATTHEWS : Thor'~~ is not 1nuch get. up :i.n h:i.rn . You would not pull h:i1n up t•dr:h a block and t.ack1e.

Bul: I a1n ~~u1~c the Pl"emit!r is ha~I"LII'J l:.houghl~ c. about back:ing h::i.n1 up a b.:it. lnul"( .·. I do nol: mean sl:.and"Lng bc:!hLnd him for support, I mecln probabJy even giving him a seat in the Common ROOITI, bE!CclUS(:' he IAJi]J fu]f :.i.JJ just as great a purpose out there as he has served since he brought in his Budget SpeE!Ch . I jus l: wanlc: :!d to point these few things out. be c au s e I t h :in k i t i. s i rn port: ant that we knot.JJ what was ~~a.i d by !:.he JnlHnbE•rs of the not!J goVE!r'nlllE!nl:. Cl: i s v E' r y , v E! r y :.i. n1 p o r -l:. a n t t: h a t·. IAJ e knot!J this.

ThE! s<:WlP hon. gE!ntlE•rnan, L\Jho is noL\1 leaving the Chamber·, sa:id, "I t!Jish I could IJ:::•t o n t h f:! g o v e r n lfl e n t s j, d e , I t;.J:i ~~ h J WE!Y'e on the govc~r-nlnE!Ill: side, I tell you I wouJd do something about these probl~Hns ." fhal: tAJas said J.ast. yea1~. The MI ·IF\ f"o1" Bonuv:ista North (Mr. Lush) ~~id \:hat J.ast year :Ln r'E!acting to the BudgE!t SpE!E!Ch, right fi"OITI the Hansard of Apr-:1.1 12. "I 1Add1 I could get on the govern1nenl: side," then I would change all that. MR. WARREN: He has changed it all. Mf~ . MATffiEWS: A real change he lAid S l:.alk -i.nq about.

We saw a rE!aJ change on JunE! 6. On JunE! 6 I!JC Sdl!.l a r·1•dl chan~]E! .in l:.h:i.s Prov:i.nc:E! ·- ~;9 :; No . 1 3 IHiSH

rnilJ.ion addi.tional taxes . That is a real change. There is no question we saw that . Personal income tax up 2 per cent, cor·p(H'a'I::E! income tax up 1 per CE!nt, 10 pE!r'cent on tuition for students. Electricity rates in this Province will increase by appr·oxirnately 14- per cent in thE~ next two yE!ar·s because::~ of actions by this government. A real change, no doubt. The Private Sector Employment: Program, 3000 jobs gone, a real change. Now, the people from Little St. L<.'U.t.JrencE!. around thE! bo(, t of l:he Bur·in Pen:i.nsuJa l::o Garnish, have certainly experienced a real chan~JE!.

They knotAJ that ~uhen Lhi~; Premier· WE!I1t l:hrough pr·G!aching on the WE!]]s Express he pr·eached J~E!al change, and he has glven lt to them in spades . AN HON. MEMBER : Anything in that water? rill\. MATTHEWS: No, there i.s nothing in this water, Mr. SpE!akE!r. I am surE! if there W(: 're anything in t.his lAJatE!I' the Minister of Social Services wo u 1 d be over· and have 1r1 y g las s before now. lie would dJ~ag it across the HouSE!. ThE!re would be a tug of war over thE! glass :if he thought there was somE!thing in thE!Y'E! -- morE! than tJJatE!r. that is. Mr.

Speakr::~r. the gentlE!Inan that I have great respect for on the other side, the President of 1r·E~asur·y Board, known to us now as Bt BakE!r. as you all know, said some interesting things about last year's budget as well, the day before the member for Bonavista Nort :h talkr: •d about i.t, on Apr· ·i.l 11. He said, "I th:i.nk tha-t is t:he tone that was used in the budget." l-Ie Wcls tal k:i.ng about the tn-intster.

He sa-:id, "He tAJas sur p r :i. sed L hat. :i. t. t/Ja s be :i. n g s c:Li . d L6 ')9 JUnE! lS, 1989 Vol XLI a1l around this ProvinCE! aJne l:he most: heavily l:i::J.X<::!d in thE! country ." th< .. lt lAIC pE!OplE! SOME HON. MEMBERS : What? MR. MATTHEWS : That is what the President of TreasuJ~y said . He said,"In actual fact, we are just taxed on the average o1n slightly above the average in th:i s coun t.ry." The Minister said that hE• had a sLudy on that.

I could go on Fot" -ten hour·s on that one•," 1·11c! said Fcli' ' ten hour·:;," but. :::er·ious1y, ::iF] have been giving the wrong iJrJPI"E!SSion to the peopll'! or Lh::i~:; ProvincE'!, I want to corT('!Ct it:. " H c• said , " I LJJO U 1 d s 1n· "loU sly l·.i. k c• t. o s e ~::• 'L h e k :i. n d Cl f ~~ t u d y t h d t lAJ d "'~ done on the taxation in Newfoundland that t.uould r·c·ach the conclusion that we are 102 per cent. above thE! nat:i.ona1 aVE!ragE!, 11 slightly abovE! .it.

"I t.t.Jou ld really l:i ke to st-:>e ·.H : .. 11 -r he President of Treasury Board at the timE! thought lAJE' wer·e tnuch heav .:iE·r · taxed than 102 per cent oF the national average . But, jn the BudgE!t SpeE!Ch,. whoich hE! hdd a Jr:li: of i.nput :into, on June 6. I lAJou] d suggest that he had a lot-: tnor·e input i.nto jt than the Minisler of Finance, he makos a st:atum£:!nl:: and says that we are not -· DR. KITCHEN : Boring . MR. MATHiEWS : Par·don. Did you did not say get:upab1e, old backslider. MR . IUDEOUf : No geL-up -and -go all .

No. 13 say bor:i. n<;J? boring. backupab1E:!, ]E:!ft :i.n h:i.ITJ You ()'1 d old at 1\6 59

.. MR. MATTHEWS: Too bad. Thir·l:y days into a mandate and he is out of gas. Of cou1~se, "if he wantE!d to go to l:he pumps and Lry to get a b:i.t. rnor·E· gas, I do not suppose that hE! can affor·d to pay fOI" it. He cannot buy it. AN HON. MEMBER: You have plenty of gas. MR. MATTHEWS : ··-·-------------·---Yes. here. There And ITIOI~E' gas. is a ·thE!re lot of gas over is going to be That: ·.is the oi:her thing, of course, they have whopped it to the old consumers on gas. You soon will not be able to afford to buy cabbage, Mr.

SpeakE!r, because you wj .ll pay tax on the gas that comes out of that when you boil it in this Province. You soon IJ.riJ.l not be able to a·Fford to haVE! a Jiggs dinner in thjs Province. So I just Sc1Y thE!Sl?. things, M1~. Speaker, so that we can d(:~monstrate {:he~ contradiction that exists in the minds of those now in the goVE!rnrnent, fr·om thE! Premier down. The biggest Walking Contradiction in the history of Newf o u ndJ.and and Labrador is this P r e 111 i E! r· . H e p r e a c h e d f r· E! E! d o rn a n d baJ.ance. YE:'S, freedom and balance alright, off balance he should have preached. SOME HON.

MEMBERS : Fair·ness. MR. MATTHEWS : Yes, fairnE!SS . ThE!re is sorne fairness. I would Like to say to the Minister of Social Services, hE! has only been su.Jcn·n in for· how long? AN HON. MEMBER : A month. L660 June 15, 1989 Vol Xl.I MR. MATTHEW~): Yc•s, one month. We. tAd 1.1 seE ! how you u.riJ.J be judg~::'d by the people on your performance. We always called him the Old Crooked Stovepipe on thi s side, Mr. ~~pPakE:~r. The Old Cl"ook ed Stovepipe, and I would say now that the OJ.d Stovepipe has gottE!n very hot over the last week or so, vE•ry, very hot. MR. TOBIN: tell them why we call him that . MR.

MATTHEW~): No, I arn no 'l:. gotng t:o br·:.i ng l.ha L u p . I c'l m n <) 1: 1: h C\ l: k i n d o J· per's on . I IJJO u l d not. b I" :i n g j l t 1 p , I would not mention tt in the HOUS E! IJJhy IAJE~ ndJ him an O]cl Crooked Sl :ovepipE!. A.11 I wotJ1 .J s a y i s t hi s , t h a t I IJJ o u l d s u g g e s 1.. why in the la si: rnon th or sc1 1:hat he brough t in tha t s tate111ent today, outl in ing that he has only spent a co up le of hu nd red dol la rs and how he g ot a loa n of .a car out in Ste ph env ille and slept wjth his wife. SOME HON . MEMBERS : HE!ar, hear! MR.

RIDEOUT : That is a penetrating insight into Lhe obvious. MR. MATTf ·l EWS: No, I do not rn~;!an that. But. she had a room and he stayed with her, and it djd not cost the government anything. That is great. fhat is bE:~ing very pt'udent., and I applaud that. But ~. I would say thE! roason thE! hon. m:i nj .ster is doJng th :.Ls :.i.s because he learned such a hard Jes~:;on in l:he past pE!rl'l clp s, and hl ~ knows 'I had bE!tt E!r stay on Llw straight and narrow or el se I w:.i.ll bE! bl~ought. to task . 1 :3o he qo .i.ng to tr·y to clemonsLI"clt.e l:.o t.he Hous e just how prudent he is goinq to be No. 13 1\660

on his trave l and his expenses and other things . That is what all moi.nistE:'rs i.H'E! doing. If that is the caSE!, that js finE!, but WE! will see over the next three or four year·s t.o,Jhat happens to travel expE!nS<:~s, entE!rta inrnent, and ot hE!r things. MR. FLIGHT: Over the next fifteen years. MR. MATTHEWS: WE!11, no. I tAJi1l not be ar·ound here after three or four years. I atn gcdng to take advantage of the voluntary retirement program that you Lt.JOuJ d not give to th(! heall:.h carE! ~;ector. I can do that.

NotAJ I will be under great pressure Frorn thE! 8,000 vot1?.r's :in th::! district to stay on, but I will probably relinquish that r·esponsj.bilj .ty and say, 11 No, go and elE!Ct sornE!One else. 11 MR. TOBIN : He is going to run federal, boy . MR. MA TTHEWS: Yes, I am going to run federal . MR. TOBIN: I will be his campaign manager. MR. MATTHEWS: Oh, rny God! No, do not takE! it that far. I nE!Ver· wantod to run in politics to be defeated. 1'11JR . TOB IN : You will not be, either . MR. MA TTHEWS: No . I will not be. Mr .

Speaker, it is too bad the Minister of Health has leFt his seat because I wanted to have a f E~ Lt.J c h a t s vrL t h h i rn a n d s a y a f e IAJ things , h OI;.J he f E! J. J out oF t.fH =• sky 011 the Burin Pc>n:insula yeste.r·day Airwolf got nothing 011 hirn. He L661 JunE! 15, 1989 Vol XLI dropped out of the clouds over St. l.atAJrE!rlCE~ Hospital . fie ~;ajd to t:he pi 1 o t , 11 Now, f :in d i: hE' b i q g e s l: d u ~. t~ spot in St. Lat.•.wencE!, and do no[ _ s h u t d ow n t h E! p r o p s , k c• l'' p t 1··, l:' 1 n going.

Get as close l.o Uw h o spit. a l as you can and rna k e the dust come up so that I can get out of the helicopter and g1;d:·. in Ul(~ hospital so that nobody knows Lhc:d: I am here. If thE!Y think SOITIE!one is here, they Lt.dJ.J. not know lAJho :-it. is . 11 That is tJJhat happ<:!nE~d. lie ~ kept l~hE! props ~~oing a11 Lhe IAJh::i .J.c he was in. And, of coursE~, chop, c h o p i s v o 1n y a p p r· o p r :i a l:. e f' o ,,.. l:. I 1 C! 111inister· as well. That is t.;.,Jh •. d: he shouJd be called . the Chop -Chop m:irr.istE!r, b::!Ci::!USe h1:~ closc•d up I1.JO hospitals down there.

AftE~r l.hE! pE•ople down l.hcr ·u realized who .i l: Lt.JD.s and lAJha t: /'kid happened, and they explored the details, one of the most hilarious things about :i. t t.o.lfl.s that the minister· u1as carr·tr:!d :in orJer· Lhe t h r· e s h o l d o f t h e U . ~) . M e n1 o I" :i. a ] Hospital by thE! 1nayor, l.ikt: • ti gr·oorn carrying h:l~; neLt.J b1 "idn. fie l:ook him in his ai' ·ms and he· carried h:im over the threshoJ.~ and said, 'Mr.

MinistE!r, lo ok al : t.h i.s fine s t r· u c t u r· E! , H ouJ can you honestly close .it dot.un, it: L\Jas so welJ.-- -buiJt by Uw Americans, a memorial to the heroics of the peopJ.e at ~)t. Lau1rence and Lawn? How can you close up this hospital that . was given to us by l.ho Americans in J"ecogni tion? 1 Just 1ast year we had a big anniversary whE!re most of l:hE· survivors of that disaster came to St. Lawrenu! and shal"E!d lAJ'.i l:h Uw people for about a week or ten days .

I t was a \Jury , v l' 1" y emotional event becaus e the Anwr·icans came back l·~o Sc'rY l:hrHlk you once again to thos e who had saved thEdln liVE!S, thoc;l:! ~; U I"\J iVOi" S and r·escu~:H'S th~: '!re. That- :i.~; I;.JhaL · No. 13 1\66 l

that hospital mean s to St. Lawrence. Of course, it is ve1hy ni CE! to see th E~ former Prenrier her e today in the CallE!ry as I say th :ls, because he WclS the Pr·emier of tho day, of course, who accepted that gift on behalf of the Province and on bE! halF of the people of St. Lal,urenCE! and Lawn. HE! LI.Jas there to actually JnE!CE!iVE~ that gift for the peopJ.e and, of c:ours E!, rnr.lde the coJnrnitrniO'nt on bt?.half of the governrnE!n t of the day to oper·atE! thE! U.S . Mernor:l.al Hospital ·in SL. l.clli.Wencu. It :i. s quj tE~ :i. r·oni c to hatJE! l~hE! FoJnlrlE!I h Prem.ie1n hlc!('l;! today.

It is very good to see him, but it "is ironic to haVE! him sit here, the man who received that gift on behalf of the Provj.nce, and then to SE!E:' anothE:H' Liberal Premier in this administration make a dE!c :i.sion to close :it down . I am sure tha t the y wil l rec on si der th at. I arn sur e they reali Le i:hey hav e ma de a 1nis take and the y w ill reco nsi der and hopefu ll y make a deci sio n that will be accepta bl e . I was ho ping the Min ister of Hea lth woul d be here becau se I arn qu ite int ereste d to h ave him upd ate us on h is fJ. ying visit to the Burin Pe ninsul a.

W e will ha ve more to say on that, I guE~ss, tomoJ ~roli.J when he is in his seat. Tal kin g about trave l and bei ng prud ent and oth er thi ng s, I exp ect th e Ministe r of D evelopm ent will be doi ng mu ch mor e travel than h e has don e in th e las t mon th. 1 a.m sur e he is getti ng use d to h is depa rtment an d he ' will be goi ng all over the cou ntry and the wor ld try ing to develo p the Pro vince. I am sq re h~ 1 will . Th at is part of his HJal'\ date. Tha i: he o nly had a pe rce nta ge of the former 1_662 June 15, 1989 Vol XLI minis ter's trav el in his fi rst mon th is und erstandable.

I am sur e he had to be briefed and l'1€l has a lot of res p0n si.b:i.lities. I would sa y perha ps the reason a lot oF the m have not done more trav el is beca use the Ho use of Assernbly is op en and they are un der st rict ord ers fr om the Pr emier not to rnoVE! too far· away. 1 Do not:_ rncHH! to far. Stay cJ.ose to me. 1 That -.is what the PrE!nrit:!r' has t:o.ld them. Your first responsibility as ministers is in the HoUSE! , so do not go tra velJing Loo mu ch no w . Watch 01..1t come l:h~;! 1nitldle of Jul y .

The middl e of July I wou]d sa y there will be a tool down draft on the Provin e~ rrom th8 p 1~ o p s t: hal: woi ll be go :L n g one L'kt y and the oth l•r', up and cloi ,\Jn l .. o Labrador , the Northern Peninsula, down th( ~ South C o a~;l :., ·f'r'OI JI helicopi:E!l~s. Ml~ . FUREY : Mys E!]f and a fri(:!n d are goi ng U'l NortAJay? Ml~. MATTHEWS : Do I want to go Lo Norway? I would not go l:o NOrtiJa y r~o r the wor ·ld . No, I LI.JouJ d not ~10 to Norway . I am not: ·interE!StE!d in going to Norway .

But it ra ises other· questj ons, beca use I thought I hNi.rd in the media the ot her da y - I am not : sur e but I thought [ heard or read som ewh ere - th at the Ministe r· of So ci al Ser vices hA d gone to the Yukon for a conference. MR. EFFORD: T"i1a·t- ·~-15Ti1r- ·or 'Jnat.ion is in cludE~d . Ml~ . MATTHEWS ; Oh, :i s :it? fi O IAl ITIU Ch cJjcJ Lhat· . 'L.r .'.i.p cost? MR. EFFOIW: ·-- .... ---·· --- -····- About $2200 . No. 13 1\ (i 6 2

MR. MATTHEWS : TWE!I1ty--ttAJ0 hundr'E!d dolli.H'S . You never brE!athed that. MR. EFFORD : You would not give him a chance . MR. MATTHEWS : Oh! That is what you call bE!:lng VE!r'y selE!ci:-.iVE!, I would suggest to Uw mjnistE!r. That :i.s seJ.ecUve information. You were very selective about what you tabled and d.isplayE•d fo1n LhE! 1nEnnber bl'!for'e you. MR. EFFORD : A point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : A point of order, the hon . the M-inister of Social Services. MR. EFFORD : Mr.

Spe~ker, thE! informaU.on on the airfare was tabled in the House of Assembly today because that is the only i.nfo1nrnat:i.on that was ava:LlablE• as of today. ThE! information on thE• meals and the accommodations w:Ll1 bE! t.abJed when it becornE!S availablE!. The airf~'lre was $2289 return From the Northwest Territories where I at.tend~:~d my f:i 1nst M:i .nister' s Conference.

It was ver'y clearly stated on the tabJ.ed information I gav e to the House of Assembly today an d I ulill bring back that comparison to the meals with the former ministe r and my own meals that I had in the Yukon of which 75 per cent wa s donated and I did not pay for, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : There is no point of order. The hon. thE! l'rlE!ITlber for Gr'and Bank . MR . TOBIN : I would like to point of order, Mr. speak to t: hat Speaker. l.663 June 1~). 1989 Vol XLI MR. SPEAKER: =n;e-r--e--Ts'no p 0 in t (If 0 r' dE! r . The hon. the rnember' for' Gr-and FJank . MR .

TOBIN: On a point of or'dE !r, Mr. ~)peaker· . MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, LhE! hon. LhE! member for Burin - Placentia WesL . MR. TOBIN : Mr. SpeakE!r, lc:!t me SdY l:.o thu Minister of Social Services that all his ex penses may not : be r·~ 1ady yet, an d we will accept Lhat, bu'l t h e o n e t hi n 9 L.u e ~Ali 11 n n r <:1 c c.. '·' p t is tha t he attendod Lh e fir ·~, L Min iste rs' Conf erence. MR. SPEAKER : There is no point of order. Th~:~ hon. the niE!rnber for· Grand nclnk . Mf~. RIDEOUT : No, you tAJould not: . IAJi:HI 'l: h:itn at:'"' First Ministers' Conference. MR . EFFORD : (Inaudible). MR .

MATTHEWS: That is quite aJl right. I accepL the hon. m:inistE!r's apologies, bui: I got worried, because when ho carne in E!arl.i.E!r t:oday he s.i l: l.n the Premier's chair. MR. EFFORD : You should have tAJr'il':i:un a lE!i:l:.IC!J" (inaudiblri:~). MR. MA TT HEWS : ThE! thing about that, though, .is you kind of made us be:LieV('! that: tAJ hat you l: a b] 1:• d t: o day on yo u1~ o L\J n E!XpE!nSeS IAJi:-lS COlripJ.eLc, i.HH:J obviously it was not. Mf~. TOBIN : John is unE! LIJho tAJas nov(•r' knot,ln t:o No. 13 R663

have respect for (inaudible), so you do not have to worry about it . MR. MATTI-1 EWS: ·w h e-·i1--T:-r a is e cJ honestly did not the information. ~_B_:._~ F F 0 B_Q : t·.ha t. point knoto~J tAJhat was You should have read it. MR. MATTHEWS: I .in No, because then I would have asked the question earlier. I would have embarrassed you more if I had rG•ad it. But thE !SB c'H'C~ the kinds of things t:hat happen. Becau se the pre ss have now reported. I would think. that th E! Minister of Social Services only spE!nt this much to date IAJhen in essence the Minister of Social Services spent rnor·e .

HE! has spPnt. more than he has tabled in the House today. and that:. is not bEdng complete, it is being very selective in the information you have given. MR. TOBIN : Not being truthful . MR. MATTHEWS : Agc:d.n, that dE!Ceiving, is coursE! • we a r· e Speaker. The Province arE! mol"E! accustomed AN HON. MEMBER : is a little it not? But, used to deceit, people of bE!COming mor'E! to it. They had seventeen years of it. MR. MATTHEWS: bit of Mr. the and Oh, yes! ThE!Y had SE!VenteE!n years of deceit when that party over there was in Opposition .

Is ia like I told someone the other day, seven teen years of criticism has not E!VE!n trans1a1:E!d ·inl:o a single month of good government . SOME HON. MEMBERS : --·-- -. . L664- June 1 1), 1989 Vol XLI Hear. hear! MR . MATTHEWS: It has not translated into on e singlE! monLh of good govcrnllHHll:, SE!VE!nteE!n YE!iH'S of cr·itic ·Lsm and suggestion by thE! ot .hE•r sidE! . What has happened with this administration since it has taken power is ver y, ver y disappointing.

And, of cour se , the people hav e the real chan ge 47 per cent of Newf ou ndlan ders and Labrador· ia ns vot ed for, and we w:i.tness<:!d that in this Budget document pr ·1:!SHnt: c.:•d by l:h(:· - M:inisl: l"r of F:Lnance ju st a coup:L e or IA.If! C k ::. ago . M1~. ~3peaker, thE!l"C~ ar· c· a F [''Lo~J ol~her· areas I would :Like to ment ion before I conclud(:! my cornm~;•nl:s t.:'n the Budget, naiTiel.y, rE:~cr't:!at.Jon and sports facilitiE!S and needs al"Ound the Province. That. ::is I,H!ry, very important, Mr. Speaker. Ml~. FUREY: Were the recrea tional fa cilit ies done by need? MR.

MATTHEW~): YE!S. i:hE!Y were done by neo d . rho y uJe r· e d u 1 y donE' • J e g j L :i rna t c J y approved and met all the c 0 n d :i l:: :.i 0 n s 0 f t h e p r 0 g r r.un r 0 r· recreation facilities in three region s of the Province and the Prerniel" tor'E! up l:h E! cl·1equc:•s and said, 'You ar·e not gett:i .ng thE•n1.' That :is what happened. I wish the Minister of HeaJ.th were .in his seat today. beci:'!US(~ thtH'E! is something I belie ve i n ver y, very strongly, and th at is that we should pu t gr eate r emphasjs on spor t and re cr eation in our Pr· ovince •.

It is ~:o har· d Ln conv ince govern ments . whet h ~r it tAJas us IAJhen IAJC:O lAJere in govel"l'llliE'nl: or you now in govE!r'nlnerll-:, and governlfiC'!il"b~ :i.n othel " No. 13 1\664

jurisdictions, of the importance of having people participate actively in some form of rE!creaLion Ol" spor·t. BecausE• it will have an effect on Health Care budgE!tS :in the future. It is preventative spending, in my opinion. It is kind of hard, because I know government is SCI"ap:ing for dollars toddy thE! sarne as WE! tJJE:~re when WE! were in government, and the government after them wiJl scrape for dollars. but .it tA.r.i11 bE! rnoney tJJe11 and wisely spent if we tried to put greater emphasis on it.

And I say to the Minister responsible For Sport and Recreation in the Province, who is sitting in his seat righl: notJJ, that if we could incr·eaSE! thE! rnonE•y ~~PE!nt in the1t particular area, Activity Division, or u.Jhatever it. is nou.1, it will reap dividends for this Province in the future.

We all know the heal th care budgets are going to · gr ov.J to tally out of control, and one way to address that is to get our· young New fou ndland er s and Labradorians more fitnE!SS ··-conscious, to be able to provide thE!m wi.t.h progr·arns and facilitiE!S whETe they can actually participate regardless of what co~nunity or region of the Province they liVE! in. If we can do that and instill in l:ht:Hn strongly E!nough the bE•nE·fit of regular exercise, we will reduce the health care bill for this Province by rw.illions and millions of dollars in thE! future.

And I say to the Minister of Health that we will reduce the health care bill for this Province by rnillions and millions of dollars in the future. And I say to thE! Minister of fleaJt.h and to the M:irdsl~er responsible for sport in the Province - the President of T(·easury Board .is in his SE!at, and I hope that lhe Premier is L6 6 ~'i June 11), 1989 Vol XLI listening -- that I do not think therE!· :is any bE! 1: t E! r· lAii:'l y you c d n spend money for the future. IL is i rn p o r· t a n l: f o I" t o d a y • b u t.

IAJ'L t h L h e health c~re pressure that J.s going to come on l:o us, if tJJe can hi::'\(Je healthier, fitter Newfoundlanders we will kE!ep the healt:h cai~E! expend=LturE!S down in th:i.s ProvinCE!, and that is l:he uJay l:o do it. Now, of course, u.Je Llri:U not accornp1:ish that if i"E!g:ions .in Ulis Province lAlhich du]y dt::!ser·ve ti·1c!lll and haVE!

HlE'I: t:hE' Cr:.il:E'r'i.d of-- l.h:: ! r E! g =L o n a J. r· E· c r e a t i o n a 1 r· d c i l :i t ·i e f; program are denied their fa ci] J. t j E! s , a::; t h j s P r· E! trri . c r-· a n cJ this Administration has diH1ted Lhc t h r· e e are a~:; :in the Pro v :inc c tAl hi c i·t d i d rn E! E! t 1: h E! c l" i 1: c:! r :i a , tJJ 1·1 t:• n l::l·t "' deci~;ion had been r11ad~:~ by thu p r e v :i o u s ad rn i n i s t r· a t i o n l: o F u n d them. But you will not do LhaL iF you qo about yout~ businC!SS d.s you have gone about =Lt in the ]~st thrE-e or Four weeks.

T h :.O! o t h E! r· v e r y i rn p o r 1: a n 1: p a I" 1:. o f thE! economy I lAJanL t:o hllJch on br·i::!fly, Mr· . Speaker, is, of courSE!, the fishery. The President of Treasury Doard somehow cannot got Uw connection between sport and recreation and having fitter Newfoundlanders ctnd talking about thP province's mos i.: il'nportant industry . liE! cannot understand hoi~J that t:i.E'~; :.i.nl:o the budgel: debatE!. lie canned: understand; hE• shakes h~is head, ho :is bowildered. He says why is hE! up talking about the fishery?

Why would you talk about: thE! fisher·y in Newfoundland and Labrador if you cH'E! talk :ing about l:he budqet: and t.he econorny of the Pr·uv:ince? Why would you do that? It is only the rnost important industry in the Province. Thousands of N E!IAl'f o u n d 1 an cl e I" s e rnp 1 o y e cl, t· u r· n in ~1 No. 13 1\66 5

millions of dollars into the Newfoundland economy, and that is why I u.Jant to ta1k a few moment s about thE! fishery. The fishe1~y in t.h:is Pr ·ovincE!, both inshor'E:1, offshore and doep sea, is ·.in VE!ry serious trouble as we all know, and it is going to have very drast.ic and d(:!vastating E!ffects on the economy of this Province over thE! next sjx to tE!n years. UE!ry tough dE!cisions have to be made~, and I am sure they will be made in the long term interests of the total f:ishing :i.ndustry of this Pl"ov-.ince.

And what I p ick up around the Pr ·ovincE• lflol~e and more, more than any other· tirnc~. is thdl: peoplr::! :invo1v~~d in thE! indusU·y ai"E! ITIOI"e receptive, and I mean tho se emp1oyed :in thE! industry, ti-lE! tl"awlel"rnen and thE• fish plan{: works, particuJary those two groups. fhey seem to realize more and morE !, and j,t has taken a 1·ong l:irne for .i{: to sort of sink in, that the industry is really jn the troublE! l:hat it is in.

I think they are willing, and more and more oF thEnn arE! bE!Com-.ing u.ri11ing t.1Jeekly, to sort of takE! their share of the responsibility for overcoming this very serious problem. I have heard some trawlermen say, Maybe we should not fish fo1" as long a period of U .rne. I have heard plant workers say, If it cornes to this, then rnaybe if WE! work six or seVE!n or E! i g h t rno nth s of the year as opposE:'d to ten or twEdve, it may be what we have to do for the long-term benefit of the industry.

What I cHn saying is that I feel thE!rE! is rnoi~E' of a I"E!CC">ptive mood amongst: thE! total fishing industry for dealing with this very seriou s problem of the decline of our fish stocks. And it is long overdue. L666 June E., 1989 Uol XLI Of course , it_ -j_ s v E! r y , v e ln y h a r' d to irnpr·ess upon pE•op1E ! who d"!PE•nd upon that very :industry for the·i I" livelihood, tAJhE!l:her· it bE! l::hc! tr'at.~JJ ennan t.uho j s go :ing to ca t~ch less f·ish bE!Ci3.USE!

Uw stocks ai~e down or he is not going to fish as oftE!n, or thE! plant lAJOrker· t.uho has less flsh to procE!ss and, consequently, will be on urH:'mpJ oymE!nt insurance lon~Jer. Their earnings are going to be down. We al] knou.J tAJhc~t.. hi:is. happened to the inshore Fishe ry oVE!r thE! ] ast nwnbei" of YE !i'H 'S. The r· C:! has be 1::! n ;:~ big d "' c I'' e a:: Q l. n t h (;! 1 a n d :L n ~J s a n d s o o n , a n cl t h e:· \:; <.:' pE!Op1e's :inco1ncs ar·e qoi nq to be· di~astj_ca11y affe cted i n <~ nc~JaLi v e IAJay.

I think WC:! h<:WU CUiilE! to d point in time in this Province where everyone .is more recepti ve to dE !a}:i.ng with :l.t, fr·om Lhc government to the Opposit-ion to the people directly emp]oyed ln the :industry. If L~E! are r,;]o :ing Lo have a NeiAJfouncJland and Labrador·, particularly a rural Newfoundland a n d L a b r d. cJ o r , t h o n t h c" p r' o p o r' dE!cisions have to b(! made nCJIAJ, when the t:i.me :i.s r :i.ghl:: and th e people are more receptive.

But in saying that, and 1ook :inq at the President of Treasury Board and the Min-istE!r of FinanCE!, it:_ is going to make the:ir· job~~ rnor·c· d iff i cult as WC::: 11 . And t h a l: -L s why I said a few days ago that for a goVE!r'nrnent t:o co1ne in on JunE! 6 and pr·ojE·ct a~;:, rn:L11ion sur·p1us in current account is being totally unr·ealist:lc. I seE· some tnember·s sdyi.ng, 'Oh, Bi11, sit down.' is onE! {:hin 'J Ther·e clearly is time. Fac e the detnon~~tratc! it. WE! wi 11 1 E! l: te st of ti .1ne . l~ h a t·: 1.~1 -L 11 and LhaL thE! budqlc! t:.

And, a::: I said l:hE! ol :her da.y, as SUI" E' ds thi s :is a bad bud~1et, and thal :i s prE!tt_y sur::!, the:! cur ·r'E!n l·: account : No. 13 [~666

deficit is going to coine in . AN HON. MEMBER: This is the best budget since 1949. MR . MATTHEWS: fhE! best budget since 194·9. What is frightening clbout that is that he believes it. It is VE!ry frightening, for t.hat man to think that. As I told the President of Treasur·y Board thE! other day, he is smiling for one or two reasons. 1 lAJould E!XpE!Ct that as \Ale gel: our financial and economic reviews throughout the year - DR. KITCfiEN: (Inaudible). MR.

MAfTHFWS : Let me say to the Minister of Finance who hc:ts spokE!n again for about the fourth time since the House opened, once when he gave his Budget SpE!E!Ch, that I hope you ar·e right, I hope you do have a $5 million sur·pJ.us -·-no, that is not true . I do not L~ant you to have $5 million surplus. A balanced budget i.s 1..uhat . I want, because I would like for Lhe Minister of Social ServiCE!S to gE!t c:~ bit of pluck in Cabinet and -tiny to get somE• more money out of thE! $ 1j million surplus for Lhe poor of Lhe Pinov:ince, the:! crowd hE! :is nOlAJ out trying to get back $8 ndllion from.

Or I would like to SE!E! the Minister of Education try to get a few more dollars for the University, for the capita] needs OVE!r there. ThE!Y only gave tht~m $2 rni1J.:ion so they cannot do the additional classrooms over there . Weal] knetAJ over t:.he J.ast thr'PE! or four· years, c1nd WE! know going into t h E! n e x t f o u r o r· f i u E! , t h a t 1:: h e r e is not adequat:(O! accommodation for students at the Urduersity.

This L667 June 1 1), 1989 Vo 1 XLI governmE!t1'l: should have madE! a decision to put more money into the capital requirements of the University so that they could make some arrangements over th~re to accomrnodai:E! student :s and E!ase the Pi"E!SSUi"E!. I know thE! Ministc~r of Education is an honest man, and I cHn sur ·e that neithE!r he nor· thE• President: of the University is satisfied with ~~2 miLlion For capital. nnd when the minister speaks one of these days, I would like him to 'l:e11 us iAJhat . happened to L.lt(:' . t l . . \ ·1.

I cap :l_a . p1 ~· 1or'1:y .:1sl ·: t·1at t.uas s u b nd. t t E~ cJ b y t h e U n j v E· r· f:, :L t y . -r h C! y had a priority list of a numbur of p r o j E' c t s : J a c k o f s p a c e IAI a s o n e , thE:~ animal caine facil.i.ty l!JdS VC!r ·y, VE!ry high on th<'! li .sl, dnd l.h(;!r 'c were two or three others . AN HON. MEMBER: What? MR. MATTfiEWS : fhe animal care Facility . The hon. gentleman sdys, whdt? Yes, lAJhat? That ts Vf:.'iAY, vci".Y i rnp or· tan t be c au ~; c~ ol~ Uw n>. s (!a 1A c h dollars that go into the University.

If they shut down the animal care facility as it now is, t: h E! r1 t: h E! rn ·.i 11 i o n s a n d m i 11 :i o n s o r:- do11ars that are going into the University, and consequently into thE! Provi nee in research money, j s going to be cut off. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. MATTHEWS: ~nd thai:, as well. Beside< ; t.hE! damagE· =Ll .: :i.s d o 1: o l: h E' U n i v u r s i l: y , .i. 1:. to datnage l:he economy Prov:inct=•. No. 13 go:i n~1 Lo i.s <::Jo inq or" Lhc 1\667

I am not sure what amount of money :is going :inl:o thE! llniVE!rs:ity for research now. I should knouJ it, cHld I will remE!rnbet~ t t b~:~fore thcO! day is over, but it is a significant amount of money. ThE!Se arE! thE! kinds of th'.ings 1:hE! $ ~) mil 1:i on sur p J. us co u J. d have bE'! E! n used for: To hr:~lp the studE!nts, you may havE:~ usE:~d it to not incJ~E!C.'lSE! tuition fec~s at all, or increaSE! them by 5 per· CE!nl '.instead of 10 per cent. That is the kind of thing lhE! 9qver-rnnent could have;! dt:!c:idecl to do, and that is what you were elected to do.

It is no good trying to say we could not do it because of what you fellows lr:!ft: us. You have ~r,5 rnilJ.ion, we hope, that you t.~ri1l have left going into the next fiscal YE!ar, so why do you not use it for some of these crisis issues? MR. EFFORD : What about the cucumber mess? MR. MATHi EWS: The cucumber· mess has been deaJ.t. w'.ith, and you arE! still projecting a $S rniJ.lion surplus. You cannot bring up cucumbers the rest of your l:iVE!S, no more than I can br'.ing up stovepipes the rest of my 1ife. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear·, hear! MR.

MATTHEWS: It: does not gE!t you anywherE! and it does not get me anywhere. AN HON. MEMBER: Like Churchill FalJ.s. MR. MATTHEWS: l.ike Chruchill Falls . MR. TOBIN : That program is gone out. Federal government does L668 June 15, 1989 now, not l::he have Vol XLI it: anymor·e. MR . RIDEOUT: Talking about: a mess, L•.Jhal: about thE! $800 rn::i.J.J.:i.on ir 'l Chur·ch::i11? The cucumbers would not s tdnd up very J.ong against that. MR. MATH·I EWS: Thc~thE! is no point in doing that, we do not accomplish anything . I am t.aJ.king about thE!~;:, miJ.Jion surplus you are proj ecting. Ml\.

RIDEOUT : Do no euer t.h:ink you at""·c nul:~; l:u talk about a Fornwr I. iberal t!Jhi lc! Lh e Minister of Fisheri es sits t ~w r' E! . MR. 1~. AYLWAIW: =r .. f,-E:-·-··"M1:-;:1:c;;··:cE;··r~--·- of a FonllE!r Tory. We:' did no L-. want Transpor--tatJ.on :.is WE! throiAJ h.itn out. him. MR. MATTHEWS: You couJ.d have used lhe $S million sur·plus tAJisE!ly . Ml~. TOBIN: ThE! Min:i.s ler of former PresidE!nt of NewfoundJ.and. MR. R. AYLWARD: Fi.nanC(! of l:.hE:! PC We:.~ had to get r·id of h.itn l:oo . MR. MATTHEWS : ::i ~; a Pat'"· i:y The Min:ist:·E!r of rinanCE! is g(:!l:ting bored, Mr. Spr:!akE!r.

And it is vory difficult for me to cont::i.nue with four or five other people talking. MR. R. AYLWARD: He is working too hard . MR . MATTHEWS: Perhaps, have used fishery. No. 13 Mr·. ~t!) Speaker, they could tn"il1i.on tnot~E! for" l:he R668

MR. R. AYLWARD: Yti-eMi'nister .. -of FinancE! is t.uor'king too hai~d trying to Figur'E! out that formula. AN HON. MEMBER : I will go down and check the (inaudible). MR. TOBIN: You will neVE!r be there . not have to worry. MR. MArTHEWS: You do Mr. SpeakE!r, they rr_!ay have used the projected surplus of $5 rrriJJion for thE! f:Lshery. They WE!rE! VE!t~y, very proud to announce in the budgE:'t that because of the crisis in the fishery they get $~)00,000 -- AN HON. MEMBFR: 500,000 . MR.

MATTHEWS: I think it is $SOO,OOO they are pu !:ting int:o l:ho Depat~tmE!nt of Fisheries because of this V!::~ry serious problem in our most important industry. A half million dollars is sup1c~rfi.cial, Band-Aid treatment. I hope when the Minister of Finance gets up to speak, he wi1J. say ail the things he is rnurnbling OVE!r ther'e so that we all can hear them and they will be recorded in Hansard. I hope that happens. MR. R . AYLWARD: He will not get up. MR.

MATTHEWS: He should be rE!COrded in this dE!batE!, bE!Cause with tiT:i.s budget and hj.s perfor·mance !:~:inCE!, it will. be 1:he last occasion on which hE! t.uil.l. be rE!Corded as the Mi .n:i.ster of Finance for the Province. These wil.l be the last few days wh(•re he tAJ~ill havE• a chance l:o get up and say something sensible. L669 June 15, 1989 Vol XLI MR. TOBIN : He brought in one budget. MR . MATTHEWS: He brought in one bud~~c:·t and ~Lt will be his last.

I hope he rises in his plau1 and has someth:Lng Lo say about .it all; abou!: hol!.J h~C• can justify what he did to the peoplE! of this Pr'ou:inCE! by inflicti.1V:3 ~J;<J~i rnil.J.ion in additional t.aXE!S on thern, $300 per· man, wornan and dd Jd in add:L l:.:i.onaJ. taXE!S :.in t h:i s fiscal year. That is what he did. That is exactly what he did. AN HON. MEMBER: How rnany times have you s~ iJ in the last three days? MR. MA TTfl EW~): HoL1J many Urnes thE! last thr~:!E! titm~s, but not: am go.ing to say days. MR. ''· AYLWARD : have• l ~;a i d :i-1' .. i 11 days?

A good l'iliHl y as many l::jtnec; a~; T it in the next: 36') You wi11 never live it down. MR. J\.,ATTHEitJS: B~?.ca-(jse"--:ft--is :impol~tanl:. that: thE• message gets out: as to exactly what you and your· governtrlont h,'"vu done since you bE!CalnE: the g o v e r· rune n t o f t h i s P r· o v i n c c~ . Instead of having a ~; :; trd 11 :i. on surplus, we could have taken it and given it to lhe Minisl'.er of Employment and Labour Relations. We could haVE! giVE!n it to h(H' ~~o that she~ would havE! a reason l':o bE! known as the Minister of Employment for the Province.

Today shE• does not haVE! a r'eason to be known as the Minister of Employment.. ~)he s hou1d be k nOL\Jn as the Minister of l..a.yofFs. Layoff~; and Labour Rel at.:i.ons, l.hat. is what she should be called 3,000 jobs out of lhe Private Sector Pt~ogram, laying oF sl:af'F i.n t he E 111 p 1 o y 111 e n t ~~ e r' v :i. c E! s D ·.:i. v ~i s ::i. o n . No. 13 1\669

You hctVE! to qUE!Stion thE! minister and the Pr EH n:i(H' and ask, Why did the Premier put ErnployrnE!nt :in thE! name of the department when all he has done d.nce :i.s cause J.a.yoffs? And the minister has caused layoffs. They have don(:1 a grE:1at job in layoffs, therE! is no question, and I arn sure you are going to see many more. You can twist: anything, you know, to your own advantage, and the biggest twister is now back in his seat. The biggest twister, the M.inistt:•J~ of HE:!a1th, is noLJJ back in h:is seat. .

He Lvent. aJ~ound t.hE:1 Province saying he was going to open up rnor'e hosp:Lt.al bE!dS C:'!nd he has cut out th :irty or forty already. Make no uJOndc:!J~ hE! told the hE!licopt::!r pilot to kE•ep the?. props going when he went to St. Lawrence and landed on the biggest dust pad hE! could find. When !::hE! p eo p l e s aw t h C" d u s t the y s a i d , My God! we a.J~E! bE!ing struck by a twister. And they were right. It was a twister . I know of no person in this world who could twist what he went around this Province preaching and put it on paper for the people of St. Lawrence to rc~ad.

I tell you, if he had not gone to St. Lawrence and fell out of l:hE! clouds in the airwolf machine like he did - MR. DECKER : Will thE! mE!rnber permit a question? MR . MA TT HEWS : ~o. I wi ll not permit a question . MR. DECKER : Just one question. MR. MATTHEWS: No question. If he had not fallen out of thE! clouds in St. LawJ~E!nC(:• and kept the dust going so no onE! could see who he really was - they really thought it LAJas a I::J.~Jisl:et~, 1_670 JUnE! 15, 1989 Vol XI ,_I and they IA.IE!re I"~Lght. They scdd it was the first time ever in the histor'y of ~)t . Lawrence that they saw a twister. Lawrence.

Maybe the kind of twister they were talk ·.ing about had something lo do with what he said earlier about going to thE! dance. MaybE! hE! u.Jas saying, 1 LEd: 1 s twist aga:in J.iko u.1e did las 1:: ~3urnrner. 1 Maybe that :Ls what it 1.1.1as aJ.l about. I do no l know. MR. DECKER: ····--··-·- ·-·---···---- Wi.J.J the rnernbE!r permi L a CJUE!S L:ion? MR. MATTI! EL'I!S : No . 13ut., I L~J:Ll1 tell you, if Lhc•y hc:'ld knot.l.ln you l.\Jere com.ing, yuu would have had a dan ce in St. L at.\Jrcmc e y E· s t er'day. MR. TOBIN : And next week . Ml~ .

MATTHEWS: That is right, and next week. lrJ h o e v ::! r t h c~ a. 1 l: E! r· n a. b'! M 'i n :i s t: e r o r: Health :Ls, he ould helVE! been bu~:y OVE!r thr:! nexi: l:.LAJO or trwec::! \.I.JE!C!k":, or maybE! longer. MR. RIDEOUT: And they had a few questions . MR. MATTHI':WS: they had a fet.~J quos t.ions, y(•s. 1 do no 1:: know whE!rE! thE!Y would havo put him clotAJn therE!, but: l..hE!y tkJOu]d haVE! found a place .. MR. DECKER : Wi11 you permit a question? MR . MATTHEW~): No. I arn not gotng Lo question. You ~re the You ai"E! supposPd to qUE!Si:ions and anstJJE!I~ tho1n. MR.

WINDSOR: purnt::i.l :. a m:lnistc::•J~. get l:he You are supposed t:o have answers . No. 13 1\6 '70

MR. MATTHEWS : You ar'E! supposed l:o have ansWE!rS. How many times today were you as ked questions and you could not anst,~.wr· them? MR. DECKER: You never asked a question . MR. MATTHEWS: You say from your place what you want to say, I u..dll hc~ar you and react accordingly, but I am not g·.iving up my time. MR. DECI<EI\: I want t. o ask your co] 1 E! ague from his Burin Placentia West what opinion is on what we are doing in Grand Bank. MR. MATTHEWS : ·r--T<now .. __ wh at opinion is. MR. TOBIN: this genl::leman's We made the announcement during the E!lE!Ction campaign. MR. MfHTHEWS : That is right..

I did no!:: want. l::o bring that up. I know his position, and I know what the position of this party was when in government: We would fully open the regional hospital at Salt Pond and k eE!p the oHw r tt.uo has pi tal s open. That is what our· dec ision was. It was thE! sarne c~s OUI" dec is .ion t.ua s ·in 19 8 '7 , keep the two cottage hospitals open. We rE!j E!C b:!d the rc~comrnendat:ions of the Royal Commissionon on hospital and nursing home costs, and the Nycum Associates Bed Study RE!port.

As a governrnE•nt, as I to] d the f>r'l:!nder· the other day, we had thE! right to do that, and you as a government do not have to acCE!pl: thE! recornrnE!ndations of a r·oyaJ. cornrrd~~s~i.on or' an E·nquir·y. AN HON. MEMBER : L671 JUnE! 1~), 1989 Vol .XLI What happened to MarkJ.and? MR. MATTHEWS: What happened to it? SOME fiON. MEMBERS : YE! s. MR. MATTHEWS : You tell me what happened to it. MR. FLIGHT: And what happened to Botwood? AN HON . MEMBER: Who closed it? MR. MATfHEWS: WE• c]osed :i.t r~.JhE!n t).JC' IAJC'!I"U l:he gover"nrnent, and For' all !:he ! r·i·::Jhl: reasons.

As I as ked you t.oda~J, du you know why tht:! hosp·it~a] in::;\: .. Lat.urE'nce :i.s st:ilJ. there? Tht,! Minister of Health did not know when he closed it down. MR. R. AYLWARD: And he dOE!S not knotAJ hen,, i.l: qoL there. He has no idea. AN HON. MEMBER : You wanted to keep LhE!ITI to get you r"e -·el.E!Cted. MR. MATH! EWS : I did not nc~c:!d two hosp.i.L'.l'ls t:o get rne re---elected. I tAI:.i]J tc•]l you what you have~ dorw by talci ng thE!Til away. You havE• E!1E!cl:·c!d rrru for lifE!. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! MR. MATTHEWS : And I t.uill tell you sornEd:hing.

J would rather have the two hospitals open and be deFeated. AN HON . MEMBER: Hear·, her.H'! MR. MATTHEW~3 : No. J 3 R671

Oh, my God! The old chick<::!n is start:tng to batte1" oVE!r therE! again. And hE! .is not etJE!n ·in his SE!at.. As an hon. nwmbE!r' told him, you c.~re not dlloWE!d l:o spE!ak unless you are in your own seat. AN HON. MEMBER : Two down. He flew the coop. MR. MATTHEWS: Yes, that :is right. ThE! old chickE!n wing! Broke one w:ing off the people of BelJ Island. As I told him the cd:hE!I" day, he cracked a tu:i ng off thE!ITI. No1JJ whether' he lAIC! n t t o K n i c k e dw c k e r' s t o p u t i t :Ln the b<.itler or· not, I do not k nolJJ. MR. R. AYLWAIW : He is going for' anot~wr· one now, is he not? MR .

MATTHEWS : He is going for the ribs over there now. He is going to bust the l"ib~; out of thE!ITl. And hE:! is into pizzas. I have heard that in the l'lE!Xt E!]ection he plans t.o USE! the pizzas like frisbees. That is how he is going to go about. hi~; district to try to get elected. But for that gentlE!Inan OVE!r thE!re to speak from a seat that he is not even allowed to speak from, when he took away a ferry from the people of Bell Island. Two ferries WE!r'E' announced by this Party when we were the government, two. Materials were ordered by the Marystown Shipyard, thre were lett.E,~rs of intent.

This member, who was E!lectE!d to rE!preSE!nt thE! peoplE! of Bell Island, bowed down to the PrE!tniE!r and thE! Cab·inc:•t and s<.dd, 111 do not care if you tah =! onE! of thr: :!m away. I do not cal"e. What . doPs :.i.t rna+:tE•r now? I a!TI elected . When we get close to the next eJection, WE! w:i11 promiSE! them the other onE! and that may !.6'72 JUnE! J.S, 1989 Vol XLI get l'nl'::~ r·~;:~ ... -r,11E·cted. 11 I do not t:h:Lnk that :Ls going to happen. I th"ink hE! wi.l1 b~:.~ fully l..<.l.ii'HF!d by thE!n. H~::~ will be thE:! one IJJ·in~Jte!cl in thE! n E' x t e 1 r:! c t ion , 1·1 o 1: l~ he people.

Hut that is the k:Lnd or · thing we see happening over there. That is another good example of job creation. Tlw Marystown Shipyard could be building the two ferries and keeping more people employed. But, of course, that is not a priority of yours either . .These ar·e l:he k:Lnds of Lh:Jn~JS -t.hdl: hatJC:! happened sinc1:• ')OU l:.ook power. VE!ry, ver'y pos:.i.tj ve L.h.:i ng ~:. have happen:.:!d in Lhe l)i"·ovincc!, dS I have said. [ver·yt:h:.i.n~1 :.i ~' Laxed to d:.:!ath, eV(H'yl:.h"ing - ~~;~)S 111t.lliun additional taxes. MR. TOBIN: Read that . r'C\CkE!t, That is go :i nlj to be! a MR.

MATTHEWS: 11 ThE! second Bell Island fel'TY i ~; not canceJ.J.E•d, 11 Wel1s ~;ay~;. 1 c· . -· that what he is saying? MR. TOBIN: Read it. al1. MR. MATTHEWS : I do not have time to read it all. MR. TOBIN: It is important . MR. MATTHEWS : Oh? WhE!n was thi's, June 15? 11 1ie added, 1 There is go:ing to be a second fE!rry for Bel1 Is1and, but: at this rnornent the goVE!Y'I'HTIE!nt hds deci .dE!d it is not going Lo have tlw Marysto1.o~m Sh=i.pyar·d bu:ild it r·ight now. 111 SOME HON. MEMB E r~s : Oh, oh.' No . 13 R672

MR. MATTHEWS: "HE! said, 'It is possible !:hat dE!Cision could change nE!Xt. year .' 11 Nmu, there is one of l:uJo things gojng on here. Is it the question of wherE! it is going to be bu .ild that is the pr'ob1em? Is that the problem, where it l!Jds planned to be built? Is that what is causing a J.itt.le more communication be tWE!en thE! PremiE!r and his friE!nd l~obQrt Bourassa? As a result of trying to g(:~t somd:hing going, I suppose he will probably have a fmo~J boats bu~ilt in Quebec. I~ l:hat what we arE! about: to SE!e, I u.JOnder?

Is hE! going to put our OL~Jil peoplE! out o·F lo~Jork dnd have them builL in Quebec? MR. WINDSOR: Is that how we have to make up for Meech Lake? MR. MATTHEWS : Maybe ME!ech Lake. Ther·e may be something surface over Lhe next nulflbE!r of months t:o show exactJ.y what is happening. When the Premier gets a chance, I would like him to say if whE•re the sh:ip was going to be built was the pboblem. Is that the problem, that he did not 1.uant it. built in Marystown? Can he stand in his place and say that it is not needed for Bell Island? MS VERGE: Where else Newfoundland boat built? MR.

MATTHEWS: is to have there in that k.ind of I would not know if there is another pJ.ace in Newfoundland to build that kind of boat:. I am nol :. SlH'E!. I arn sur.::~ tho Minis l:el~ of Works, ~)er·vj ces and Transportation could l:.e ll whE!re I:: hey might bu:i ld it: el selAJhE!re. But:, Lhen, of coul~sr::•, hE! did not know the L6 73 June 1'.), 1989 Vol. XLI decision had been made not: lo build it this year. M ~- .:.. __ R_. _ _t!..Yl-J~ A R Q. : He said there was no decis ion . MR .

MATTHeWS: He said there was no decision, but, of course, no dr-:~c:is:Lon moans that. he dj .d not knoiAJ if :Lt. was going to be built or not. Indeod, there was Minute-·in-Counc:i .1 isslH!d on May 23, or' i"1ay 27, and thr ·ec ~ times since that date the minister stood :in his place and deni(•d th<'l.t thE!rE! was a M:Lnu t.e- .-:i n--Counci :1 issued. M" . R. AYUIIJAIW : fiE:~ dOZE!d off in thaL Cab:i11eL fnE!E!t:ing, I suppose. MR