VOL. 1 NO. 16 aNEDITED ~OUSE OF ASSEMBLY :'OR nfE ?E:!UOO: 3:00 ?-~- - 6:00 ?-~- MONDA~. ~OGOST 6, 1979 I ,_

t '"'. i '· . r· 1 L r· I '. ( . ,_ ( .. :. .\uqust 6 ,1979 The House met at 3:00 p.m. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. !!P..SP"'JU(ER: (Simms) MR. SPEAJCER: Opposi ticn. :om • .JAMIESON: Tape !lo. 546 A.li-1 Order, please~ ORAL QUESTIONS The hen. Leader of the Mr. Speaker, I should .like to add%:1!tss a. question or two to the Premier with reqard to the operation of the ~cmmittee system, for clarification purposes and also so that we can continue with the c:CIIIIIIitment that we have made to try our very best to make the system work.

I ll.ave two questions, !:he first, in connection with the Department of Transportation and CciiiiiW1icaticns. I understand that the minister in committee has declined to give a comprehensive and total list of work actually underway threughout the Province during the current construction year, the explanation beinc;" that we can look through the tender lists or we can through a variety of ways find out what is happening.

It seema to me that this is a very, not only burdensome, but quite unreasonable position to take, that it is a matter of public: record just what worlt is being done, and I ask the hen. the Premier whether he ·.,ill in fact, either himself or through his minister provide this comprehensive list of just exactly what is being done. I emphasize that certainly construction is not something you can carry on in secret • There should not be any reason why we cannot have it in some comprehensive font rather than have to search through every tender call that has been made. MR. SPEJUI:ER: The h.on. the ?remier .

PREMIER PEC"KFORD: Mr. Speaker, was there a· second part to the hen. Leader of the Opposition's question? MR. JAMIESON: I was going to have it as a suppl8111entary. .1379

i i \.. r·­ ! L. I \,· r· I c.- (· i • \._ __ r· t . [ ( August 6-, 1979 Tape No. 546 PRE.t·1IER PECXFO!W: I see. I thank the Leader of the Op~osition for - I hope he does advise me soon ~t to his right is nis spokesman also when other people over here rise

U) their feet. i1R. S. NEAR:!: PREMIER PECXFORO: lU". Speaker, as it relates 1;0 t.lla I.ea.d.ar of the Opposition's question, I shall take the lllil ttar u.nder advisement md give the Leader of the Opposition toiiiCirrcw. 1-iR. SPEAl<ER: (Simms) A supJ?lemen~. The i10n. Leader of the OpJ?O&i tion. MR. JAMIESON : 'I'ha second issu11 has to do with the mateer of wnether or not officials will be pe~tted, on the instructions of their minister, and can lle ~ermitteci in coumittee, to answer questions.

It is my understanding that in at least two of the collllllittees this has oeen done, has wor.ked very well, very effectively, and that in a third c~ttee, tua committee I believe heaCed oy the bQn. lllember for Stephenville (t-t.. Stagq), ~t dlilspite the willingness of the minister to Mva ilis officials answer specific ~1.4estion.o - not on ?(llicy, I empnasize1 we 1.1ndarstand. that it has to :Ce at the au~rization of the minister - but. will the ?rESILier tell me if ilis understaruiinq is t:ne same as m.ine, that

I \.. l. ('· L I' ·j l . I l .. Auqust 6, 1979 T~ 547 EC - l MR. JAMIESON: if an official. is present and. the lllinistu is prepared. to let him answer a. question whl.dl is within his campetence,if it is l1is ~moderstandinq t.llat that is how the coaaittea system sbould. worlt and does, indHd., worlt in ~~~at j uri.sdic:tions? MR • . SPUDR: (S~) 'Iha ban. the Prulitlr. PREMIER PBCUOBD: Mr. Speaker, ngt lalowinq that tha hen. tha rules of the COIIIIitteea, I am not in a. poaition r.iqht liOV to qi.va him a <ill tailed answer.

I c:an express op.in.ions al.l I like, I de not lcnow ~ tha rule says there on that a. couaittee III&Y not quaation public I de not knov bow one 118ada to int:.%Prat. t.llat, llut let • say to the :t.e&dar of the Opposition th&t on thi5 point 1as well, I wUl. taka it under advisame:a.t and qi.va the I.e&d.er of the Opposition an answer toiiiOrrow. MR. .rAMIESOH: Mr. Speaker, a. supplemanury. '1'2l.e non. the Leader of the Oppoaition. MR. JAHIESOH: Mr. Speaker, to the hon. the P%'Uiiu. I waa ~~at unaware of, nor am I arquinq the fun~tal Standinq Or<ier.

What I am sayinq is that it has pro-d to be quite effectiva and in, I bel.ieva, 111:1st cases llli.n.iste.rs have aqreed tllat it mak.as some sense in tecil.ni.cal. issues and. the like, wi. th thiUr authorization, for iAdi viduals to answer. Alld I suqqest to the llon. tbe Prl!lllier and paxhaps to cne House .I.eadar (Mr. Marshall) that in fact, since it llaa worked in tvo COIIIIII:ittees illld si.nce the lllinisurs, themselvas, appear to 0. willinq, chat tnare seems to be = good reason why - should not arr.iw at that kind of an lllllie.rst.andinq in the interests of lllak.inq the committee systl!lll work. MR.

SPEAJCER: 'lhe bon. the Pnlliar. P.RDUER l?ECXFORD: Mr. Speaker, it is a matter of undarstandinq 0 and I did not knew wan cne :t.ead.er of tile Opposition spoke first, because lle did not pra:face his reaa.rXs by sayuc; that the rules notvithatandinq that some a.c;re~t between both sides o11tsida tba rules as tlley now exist should be made, and I am willinq to entertain that. And as I indicated to the .I.aader of che Opposition, I will gi.w ilim an 1381.

j • ... _ (_: r· ' I ' . ( ~ I i \ .. (~. L. ( L I ' -.. L . Auqust 6, 1979 Tape 547 EC- :z MR. lfEAli:)C: MR.. SPEADR: (S~) MR. NEAJir: ~ U.O to .find aut if the refua&l. on. the part of the MinUter af Rural• Aqr.ic:ult.uxal mel NOrtham Develop-t (.Mr. Goudb) to table a. list of IUIIIU of people wbo rec:e.i v.d leas froa the R11ral. De-.lcpment A.utbgri ty MR.. W. MARSDLL: Mr. Speaker, a. poiAt of arder on. thia.

A poiAt of order 1 the lKm. the President Of the CoWlcil.. debatas a.t wb.ic:l:t. time my matter that wu in the QQ!~Dit:.ee that wu not dealt with to the sati.sfac:t:i.on of Mllltlers can l:le drawn .before the Bouae itself at the t.Ua. But I. de not thiAk it ia-and. I. thiDk ~:hat that But the qu.stion. that - have l:lefore the Bouae in the presen.t i.Jwt3Zlc:e is one re~y, uk.inq the hon. t.'le Prem.r far 1 1382

,~·· ... \. . (· I (. I I i , - I \- ·' Auquse 6, 1979 Tape ~o. 548 SD - l :.m. W. MARS!:IALI.: there.fora, an

interpretation of the rul.es of the House which :r real.ly do not ~nk is in order. MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) To the point of order, the hon. member for LaPolla. MR. S • NEARY: Mr. Speaker, my question is exactly along tbe same l.i.nes as the first question asked by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. D. J'amiesonl and that is if t!le govern~~ent are going to give · WI a list of the names of a.ll these people who racaived loans f:z:o.m the Rural Development Authority. The minister went as far in committee a.s to identify the project- and give the amount: of money a.nd where the project was beinq und.ertaken. aut, ~~.

Speaker, what I am aSking the Premier is completely different, because t.'l.e non. gentleman refused to give us a. list of names, t.'le same as the Minister of Transportation a..nd Collllllun.i.C4t.io.ns (.Mr. c. :are ttl refused tc give a list of projects. And. so that is the question :r am a.skinq, Sir 1 and :r loo'OUld submit that I am in order, :rt l:la.s noW.nq to do with t.'le rules of the comm.ittess of t:his !lOuse or anytl:linq else; it is -just a. matter of privil.edge of the S:ouse. ~!R.

SPE.AKZR: 'l'o the point of order, I would not consider the question to be out of order and therefore a.liow it t:o stand. The non. the Premier. PREMIER PE:CCFORD: Mr. speaker, :r can undertalc.e for the member for LaPoile (Mr. s. ~a aryl to ask t.'le Minister for Rural, Agricul turai and !lorthern Development (Mr. J'. Goudie l a question if b.e so desires. As far as :r llnderstand 1 there is not.ung improper with the responses that the minister gave in committee.

And ! am not aware of a.ny rule or regulation ·.mich t.'le :-lin.ister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development steered away from or broke, so :r am not sure of the non. member for LG.Poile's question. If he wants :ne to ask a question of the minister, if he wants me to find out i£ the :n.inister has conducted himself improperly before committee or in his department or *hatever as it ; -

(; I ( L ( (' L August 6, 1979 Tape No. 548 SD - 2 relates to c~ta;Ln thinqs, well, then I am only too happy to do it. MR. S. ~: SapplEIIIlentary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPE»:ER: (Simms) Supplementary, the hon. member for t.ai'oile. MR. S • NEARY: Mr.

Speaker,. the hen. gentlem&n seems to be awfully touchy today for some reason or other. lfha.t I am askinq the hon. gentJ.eman is, is this !louse -he does oot have to ask anybociy; the hon. gentlaa.an is the Prellli.er - is this House goillq to qet a list of all the secret loa%15 ~ to people,an&i the names of the people they were made to 1 as the House is enti tlad to have? Por <Nery dol.l.az: of public mcmey tll&t is ~nt, the House is entitled. t1::1 la:l:lw llcw, where iUIIi wbg it was spent on.

Ami that is what I am askinq the hen. qentlEIIIlan. ~e - goinq to get a list of names of the l!ural Qevelopment loans? AZlli the hon. gen'Ueman need not be so nasty and rude. O%d.er, please. The question ha.s been asked. The han. Pramier. PREMIER Pl!:CXFOEID: I will take the question under advisement, Mr. Speaker. MR· SPEAXER: 'I:he hon. !llelllber for Bonavista North. MR. !.. STIBLING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A question directed to the r.tinister of lll:lral, Aqricultural and. Northern Development (Mr. J. Goud.ie) in his ro.le as Minister of Aqriculture 1 I quess.

I received a call from the sunny area of Bonavista. North and they indicate that the blueber:ry crcp, which is very important tl::l that a.rea,is go:inq to be ready for pickinq 11111ch earlier than ~~~ay be in othar parts of the prcrtnce. T.t1ey

Auqust 6, 1979 '!.'ape No. 549 ow - l !'!R. L. STIRI.DtG: are concerned that a lot of the berries may rot on the vine if the ·- season is not opened earlier. WOuld the minister L~dicate whether or llQt consideration has been given or is being given to opening the picking season earlier1 ~- SPEAKl!!R (SIMMS): The hon. Minister of ~1. Agricultural and Northern Development. ~- J. GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, consideration is J:,~inq given presently to that suggestion that the blueberry season open a little earlier.

The bakeapple season opened on the 3rd. of Auqust and I understand that SQme of the berries on the stems were quite i ., ma.tura and quite ripe at the opening of the season, so they could I .. have been picked a little bit earlier. We are assuming because of I .. the weat.'1.er conditions this Summer that the same thinq may apply to not only the blueberries but the partridqe berry - or red berry, if you prefer - may ba in the same kind of a pc11i ti.on prcvidi:nq weather continues to be t:ha sama.

So the staff are looking at t.'le possibility now and hopefully within a day or two we will have an answer or at least the information to determine whether or net we can open the season in advance, but it is being considered presently. MR. SPE1UtER: The hen. member for LaPoile. MR. S • !lEARY : Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of ~tines and Enerqy, Sir, :~oulci the minister care to give us an updating on what is happening in connec:tion with the gold mine in Burnt Island Pond near Isle aux MOrts in t.'le district of LaPoile?

As the hen. qentleman knows, there has been a company from Quebec drilling there now for t.'l.e last three or four years, there has been a fair amount of exploration and sampling of t.'l.e ore and so forth. Would the !'loon. gentleman tall us what is happening in connection •.rith that discovery of gold down t.'lere now on the Southwest corner of the Province? 1385

\ . \ . '· .- ,. ( t • ... ( . L ' '· : - August 6, 1979 Tape Ro. 549 ow- 2 _MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS): '!'he hen. Minister of !tines and Enerc;y. MR. t.. BARRY : ltt. Speaker, it is os little ~ early to say or to refer to this discave~ as a c;old mine. We hope it will be a c;old mine b~ th~re is a lot of work yet to be done before the mineral occ:urance ean h4!! eonfi.nled as of beinq of co~~~~~~ereial siqnificance. '!'his work is beinq carried out hy Rio-canex which is a 51U)sidiary of !ti.o-Al.c;om.

The discOVery was lllllde at Surnt Island Pond back in 1977 • ':here was a considerable IUIIOUDt of exploration and drillinq done last year which vas encouraqinc; to the extent that the company is back this year, ac;ain spendinq a eonsiderabla amount of money dcinq further exploration warx. We are not yet in receipt of information ~ on this year's drillinq proqri!IIIIM.

At the end of this SU~m~~er, or when they finish their drillinq season 1 we will be supplied with info:z:aation as to how successful or otherwise the season was and we hope that we will be in a better position to confi:::m at that time the hon. member's label which he used in the course of the question. MR. S • m:ARY : A supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

--l . I ··- r· I \ . I I J \ . ............... I r·· ) 1, ,- ,-. I (_ _ {~ ' r· L August 6, 1979 Tape t>lo. 550 NM- l MR. SPEAKER (Simms): A supplementary, the hen. member for LaPoile. MR. !lEARY: Well,do I understand correctly from the hen. gentleman that this may be the last year of drilling and analyzing the ore and sending the samples to Daniel's Harbour 1 in Ontario, or ~erever they send them, and at the end of this contract, this drilling season, there will be a definite decision ~de on whether or not the mine will go ahead? 'Hill that be made this year? Is that what I understood from the hen. gentleman.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Mines and Energy. MR. BARRY: As the hen. member can appreciate 1 this is a decision of the private sector. The company will be deciding based on the information it =inds during this drilling season as to whether any .. further drilling is necessary. It is our understanding,however,that at the end of this drilling season the company should have a good indication as to whether or not it is likely to be a commercial discovery. ! cannot be any more definite than that.

I cannot s~y that they will not need another season or part of another season 1 but in all probability by the end of this year we will know ;.rhether •.;re can see the de•relopment of a mine in this deposit. :-!R. SPEAKER: The hen. member for Burgee-Bay d'Espoir. MR. 3IMMONS: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the han. the Minister of Finance. I wonder if he could indicate to the House whether or not the Province has entered into any actual agreement with the federal government to taka over, in concert with other provinces, undoubtedly,the ~etc Canada operation? :-m. 3PEAKER: The hen. Minister of Finance. DR. J.

COLLINS: Mr. 5peaker, the simple answer to that . is no, there is no formal agreement. There have been ongoing discussions with ~he representatives of the federal government over the matter of what should happen to Loto Canada. I understand that Loto Canada operates under

an act •,rhich extends to the end of this year and there

,--. L.: r- \ c. r· L. .... r· L. '·· August 6, 1979 Tape ~Jo. 550 NM- 2 DR. J. COLLINS: will have to be some decision made before the end of this year what will continue after that. !lut to date there has been no agreement. MR. SIMMONS: A supplementarY. !m. SP!Al<ER (Simms}: A supplementary, the hon. member for Burgeo- aa.y d' Espoir. MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Spealcer, to the same minister. Coul.d he inai.cate to the House whether the Province has any particular position on the matter?

Is the Province courting the possibility of such a eakeover by the provinces or co~ld the minister very briefly outline this Province's position in respect to the subject. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. OR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, some time aqo now I think all the provinces have inai.cated to the federal government that they feel the lottery field should be

-------- I L_. Auqust 6, 1979 Tape 551 l?lC - l Or. co_llins: o.ae that should be solely within Provincial \ __ _ jurisdiction. At the present time, I think. canada is somewhat unique in this respec:t i:h&l: both levels of government can operate in this area, &lid I believe there bas been tmanim.tty of opinion UIDllqst the provinces that this should revert solely to the Province. MR. SIM!aS: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPUKER {SIMMS): A final supplementary, the bon. member for SUrqeo-Bay ci'Espoir. MR. SIMMONS: Mr.

Speaker, the Province, of course, gets some return now I believe in respect to the Wto Canada prcceecii.nqs or their revenue generates. I illll wonderinq if the lllinister is in ~ position to illdic:ate to the House wh.:lt a proposed takeover :by the ,Provinces of toto canada wuld mean in finaDcial terms? Would the Province of Nawfowldl.anci be in ~ better position in tiUli!S of reeeipts from toto canada than it is at present? or have the discussions got to the point where they dealt or dwelt in that kil1d of deuil yet? The hon. Minister of Finance. OR. COLLINS: Mr.

Speaker, the nturn t:o the Province is related ( to two thinqs1 firstly, it is related to the number of tickets sold (_ - in ~ particul.ar province, md sec:ondl.y, it is related to the fo:z:mula whereby the total amount is split up iiJIICft9St the provinces. I believe last year t:ha Province of Newfoundland received ' 501111lthinq like $100,000, ~thinq in that area. So it was a fairly s'JI!&ll sum.

The anticipation, I think it is a fair sutement to say that the anticipation wuld be that if the provinces took over this there would possibly not be a greater number of sales in the province, but ' • \~ there would be a difference in the split. And I think it is a fair statement to say that the anticipation would ba that ~ewfoundland would get more out of it. MR. SPEAKER: The han. member for Tarnqat Mauntains- is about to stand, I believe. The han. member. 1389

r· I I L I l_· r: 1 L· August 6, 1979 Tape 551 PK- 2 MR. WARREN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Transportation and Communications (Mr. Brett). I understand on Friday the gravel pit at North West River was closed at a reques~ from the Montac;nais-Naskaupi Il:lZm Association. Could the minister advise us if that gravel pit has been reopened or if there are some other alternati~s arranqed? MR. SPEM:!:R (SIMMSl : The hon. Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR. BRE'r'l': Mr. Speaker, I believe that comes under the Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr. Barry).

I am aware of the fact that there was a group who wanted the gravel pit closed. I was not, in fact, aware that it had been closed because I was on the West coast all Friciay afternoon, so therefore I am not aware if it is open aqain or not. I do not know if the problem still exists. MR. W1I.RREN: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

( . \... Auc;u.s1: 6,1979 Tape No. 552 AH-1 !iR. SPEAKER: (SilllmS l A supplementary. The hon. memtler for 'l'ornqat Mountains. MR. Wun:N: M:r. Speaker, may ! ask the question of the hon. Minister of Kines and Ene:rqy? But it is a gravel pit I1Hd to put qravel on a hiqhway, so I presumed. I was askinq the question to the riqht channel ,:bQt if the Minis1:er of Mines and Ene:rqy can answer, 'by all Jneans. MR. SPEAKER: Mines and Ene:rqy. MR. BARRY: The hon. Minister of !!%' • Speaker, al. thouqh 1 t is gravel for the ~.iqhway it is necessary to have a quarry permit obtained.

We unders1:ar..d that althouqh a request was made for a quarry permit,that in fact the permit had not 'been issued at the time that wark had cC~Benced in the quarry 1 ~d I have asked the officials of the department to investiqate just what took place at the site. Normally the procedure is to check with the various town councils involveci to determine if there is any objection on the part of the town council or councils to havinq the work proceed. ~ I understand it1 there is no objection placed 'by the town council so in all probability a permit will issue 'but this has not yet 'been confi:tmed. MR.

SPEAKER: A final supplementary 'by the hon. memtler for Tornqat !o!ountains and then t.'te member for Windsor - Buchans • ~. Speaker, althouqh the Minister of !tines and Ene:rqy (M:r .Barry) said there was no disaqreement from the tcwn council,! believe there is some concern expressed by the Montaqnais Inuit Association 'because as you know the town council of Northwest River presently only comprises the !forth side, no1: the Sou1:h side. and ~~~ gravel pit is located on the South side. So there is some confusion there, I believe. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. minister. MR.

BARRY: Mr.Speaker, we are gettinq into the territory of another minister, the Minister of Municipal Affairs, 1391.

r ' r I L. (' \ f '·. (' I l ,. \ ( j L. August 6,1979 Tape No. 552 AH-2 MR. BARJIY: (Mr.N.Windsorl. It was m.y undarstandinq that the town council presently covers both sides but that there is some objection on the part of the native people to beinCJ included within the town. But as it stands riqht now my underseandinq, subject to correction, is that they are still covered by the town council. MR. SPEAXER: (Simms) The non. member for Windsor- Bw:hans. MR. FLIGH'l': Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Tourism, (Mr .Power) .

I am. wtlnderinq: about his posl.tion witn reqards to the announ~t over the we.und that the Federal Minister of Fisheries (Mr .McGrath) has reduced t.'l.e· quota for the inland sports sallllon fishery from four to two. I am. ~10ndarinq if the minister realizes that m~y -11 have some adverse affects on the tourism • situation in this E'rovin ·ce? I am. wonderinq if the ministar had any im.put into that particular decision and as to whether he aqrees ·.rith the reduction frc:m four to two, from four salmon to two , in a qi ven day? 1392

I . - L r· , ..... L r I l.... r ' L I ..... .\ugust 6, 1979 Tape ~o. 553 NM - l MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. ~nister of Tourism. MR. c. POWER: we were in full consultation with the Fede~a1 ~ister of Fisheries on cutting back of the sports salmon fishing.

Obviously ·~. as a Department of Tourism, are not overly happy with the idea of cutting the salmon from an average of four per day to two allowable catch,but we do also fully concur with the Federal ~ister of Fisheries that i~ something is not done to preserve ~~e Atlantic salmon then it might be possible next year that there will be no sports salmon fishing at all. So we 1 I suppose 1 take it for what it is worth and we say it is better to have two catch allowed per day than none at alL MR. ?"LIGHT: A supplementary. :o!R. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. member for Windsor-Buchans. MR.

E'LIGHT: I wonder if the minis-cer has prepared, or has he decided, on the legal definition of a grilse? Now we are told that the limit from now on will be two grilse per day, grilse being small salmon. Depending on the

interpretation, is the minister pr~pared to give a legal description or definition of a g:rilse as to whether it is a four and a half pound fish, a five pound Eish, a three and a half pound fish? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Tourism. :-m. POWER: It is my understanding that the definition of a grilse is a small salmon that weighs less than six pounds. MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. member for Windsor- 3uchans. MR. FLIGHT: Will the minister then undertake, as Minister of Tourism, to indicate to the sport fishery and sports fi-~ermen in this province that a grilse is any fish less than six pounds?

And then as an aside, Mr. Speaker, would the minister also indicate to the people interes-ced in the sports salmon fishery that having been unlucky enough -luc.'<y :nough up to this point in time but unlucky enough as of today, or as of Saturday- to hook a ten or twelve or Eifteen pound salmon, play it for forty-fivs minutes '"hen he can finally get it off ~he hook, =ealizing that it is dead anyway, will he advise him as to whether he is going to throw it back or keep it as a =esult ~f having been unlucky :nough to hook it? . 1393

r I "-· r L r L r l .. · r I L. (' 1 I L August 6, 1979 'rape No. 553 NM- 2 MR. SPEAI<ER (Simms) : The hen. Minister of Tourism. lo!R. POWER: Mr. Speaker, I do not know what to do with the fellow who had a ten or a..lve pounci salmon. I will certainly undertake to confer with the Federal. Minister of Fisheries. Now, as you are aware,the jurisdiction for salmon fishing is a little bit unusual in Newfound.lanci where the provincial qo~ermnent has control over licencinq but the federal government really ha.s jurisdiction over enforcing it.

We will ce:tainl.y \)'et our officials to canfer with federal officials as to the definition of what constitutes a small salmon or \)'rilse, whether it is six :;.launds or five pounds, and I am fairly certain that no.bociy has been prosecuted over the weekend for catchinq a twelve pound salmon. MR. SPEAKER: 'I'he hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. JAMIESON: If the House will permit I hope that also it will be, this may very well prove to be a restraint on the ltind of line that goes on, about this number a.nd size of salmon that people catch.

But my real question is for the hen. the Premier, because it involved a. number of departments. over the weekend I had another meeting with regard to the future of the Come Sy Chance oil refinery and there is a genuine confusion which I hope can be cleared up, I do not know by whom and pel:baps it_ 111ay well be a statement that :nay be necessary. Earlier last week I asked the Minister of Finance if the only thine; that was standing in the wcy was ttte envirolllllental study and I not have Hansard in front of 111e but I believe he said that ~~t was the case. Now on Friday the lllelllber for LaPoile (Mr.

Neary) iUked a question about whether a contract existed 1394

r· I L .. r i t_ [ [ r·· ; ,. .. i I :....._ , .. ( L_ ,_ I . A~t 6, l979 Tape SS4 EC- l MR. JAMIESON: for tha supply of this crw:!a oil which is c;;oinq to =•ate the enviromaental problea. At that ataqe,ag&in if not avua ot. such a cantra~. My question is thisa llu, in fact, ·~IJ })een put in plac:e:i' 'rh&t is, do - lalow th&t t1:1a First .AnDian. MR. SPEAXD: (Si.mma) 'lhe. l:l.Dn. the Premier. PREMD:R. PECU'ORD: Mr. Speaker, I do uot think the Minister of Finance (Dr. J.

Collins) or lllfSel.f oftr the laat n'UIIber of weelc.a have tried to l..,. the impreaaion that there only two thinqa and. eftrytb.i.ng was fU. and. fast. Wbat - ue s&yinq is that there a:e two lll&jor thinqs left to be izoned out. We have l1ad. u:tansive neqotiationa with First Arabia Corporation md AahJ.a.nd Oil u it relates to a. lot of the other factors md we are rlll.ativaly usured that all of these fa~n ~ be izoned out. Now '<lben - get d.own to cros.sing the 1 t 1 s and. dotting. the 1 i '.s, as the I.eader ot. the Oppcai tion knows , there mic;ht be other ~stions to =- up on a lot of th ... points.

As of this point in ~. tba is addressing and. why - dla.rqed an independent enviromaeutal stuey, t;w.t we feel nl&tively sure that the crucia oil ~ be secw::aci by Fi.rst Arabian Corporation. Now I ~t Oil to say on Friday that before - would si9Jl, and a:osa t.ila ' t' s and dot the 1 i 1 s, we would lll&ke sura that that was so.

But we a.re relativaly assured, rel.atiftly canfid.ent, that First Arl~Qian. ca.n delivar cruaa oil to eo- By Olanca md that tile tl\10 major a.reas that wa a.ra exploring at soae <2pth were the anviroru1181lt and. the whole question ~f financing u that related. to the pay bac:k to the i'rovinca of Newfoundland 011 the outstanding 1110ney oow owed. MR. JAMIESON: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. MR.. SPEAlCER: A supplemen~, the llon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. JAMIESON: Mr. Speaker, I wa.nt to assure the non. the Premier that the issue is so important that ! am not asltinq it in any 1395

r L r L r L [ L. ~~ ' A.w;ust 6, 1979 'rape 554 EC • 2 MR. JAMIESON: a. qenW-ne ccnfusion. And. I apolQCJille for not l;lavinq the direct quote in !%ant of •• but I would. uk IIIUiben ~ reca.ll. that I bel.l.e'VW ti1a SUpply of oll is a.v&i..Li~Qle.

What I am aak;i,nq- becaue there is a. ,..nuiAe 5eDsil of ccmca;n in the area,- wbatbeZ it is justified. ~ !lOt, I aa not in a. pos:i.tion to saY:- that in fact Jirst Ar~ian is a lonq way from. llavinq just a c:%011Hd. 1 t 1 or a dottaci 1 i 1 with. reqard. t:g this supply, that t1:w whole <iQUti.CIII. has been th%OWD into soaa jeopuciy by racant avea.ts in tila !Iiddle Eaat and. tila l.i.ka an4 that in fact we 1II&Y be spand:inq a lot of without really lcDcwinq wbetber, in f&Ct, that b.iqb. sulphur =n,tent oil i.s sa.tisfa.cto:ry. 'l'ha.t ia the basis of the wo:r:y. MR. SP!:AJCER: (S~) 'rha hen. the Pramier.

PREMIER PECXFOIU:I: w.J.l, Mr. Spe.Ur, t:g that, all. I can say to the Leader of tila Opposition is that t:g our lalow.led.qe, there is co prob.lua with c::uda oil supply,

l __ _ i L ' . ' ... I ... . ~-~ Au;uat 6, 1979 Tape 555 PK- 1 Premier Peck:ford: Now, you know, I do not where that rumour is coming from, that suddenly now there is a problem in the Middle East a.;'ld there:fore the crude oil supply is not as readily available as it would otherwise be and so on. I mean,I am not free to sort of comDent on ~~t. All I can say is as of this date to :IIY knowledge the crude oil supply is secure as it was wnen we initially began negotiations with the First Arabian Corporation, and that was fairly secure, and_ that the two EM.jor problems are the financing and the environment. MR.

JAMIESON: A supplementary. MR. SPEAXER (SIMMS l : A supplementary, the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. .nuaE:SON: Once again, in a search for clarity here. I wonda:J: if in a very simple,straightforward way whether it •.o~euld be possible, in fact, to indicate that a contract has been shown to the Government o£ Newfoundland,or to one of its ministers,which confirms this? I should emphuize by the way, that I can assue the hen. the Premier that my sou;ces are good in this regard.

They are in the oil industry and , well, very comprehensive that a lot of things have been t.'lrown into jeopardy in the last three or four months. So it is quite simple, Is there a contract, a piece of paper which First Arabian is able ~o show to the government or to the trustees or whoever which says,in fact, yes here is an assurance t.~at this oil is going to be available,or is it something less specific than that? MR. SPEAKER: The hen. the Premier. PREMIER P:SCKFORD: Mr. Speaker, there is no piece of paper which Ashland Oil or the First Arabian Corporation has shown the government.

Ashland Oil has - MR. ~SON: That is it. ?REMIER PECKFORD: - extensive interest in the Middle East and are negotiating for oil purchases every day. But there is no sheet of paper up to this point · in time. We have been assured of a crude oil supply , and that is what led to my comment of the other day, 1397

\ .. _ August 6, 1979 Tape 555 PK - 2 Premier Peckford: because there was no sheet of paper that before we would siqn finally cross the 1 t 1 s and dot the 1 i 1 s , be satisfied with the financial arrangement, be satisfied with the environmental arrangement, that some of the other things . dealing with FI:RA, dealing with !IIWlicipal taxation, dealing with the wharf, dealing with the land acquistion dcwn the road for expansion which are all issues that we think can be resolved easily, that we wlll have to qo through all of those again just to assure oursa.lves that we are on safe ground, and that is where the crude oil supply lies1in that kind of area.

But if the hen. J:.eader of the Opposition has additional information which he thinks the qovert~~~~ent should have from oil interests 1I wcm.ld be very appreciative if h.e could provide me l!fi,th th.a information because, you know, we would like to know about it. SOME HON. MEMBEllS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAXER (SIMMSl: Order, please. The time for oral Questions has expired . ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS FOR W&l:CB NO'fiC!: BAS .BEEN GIVEN MR. SPEAKEll: The hoD;. Minister of Health.. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, a question Friday from the member for Bonavista North (Hr.

Stirling), a series of quesd.ons relating to a · study, fluorides in the Long a:arbour area. I have some information, but I ~ not able to qive the specific answers that were requested. First of all I want to make a couple of points: one is that the Task Force ruled out any detrimental af~ect to human health caused by fluoride emissions into the e . .'lVironment ~ I That "Nas the first thing,I think, that they found from there. And that was the major reason why the Task Force was

L r L l. Auqust 6, 1979 'l'ape NO. 556 ow - l MR. ill. HQUS'£: and that was the major reason why the Task FOrce was put intc effect. On the bJ:O&dar aspect of OcCUpational EDviromaent issues , the 'l'ask Force made a nUiid:ler of · reeo~~~~~ei:Ldations which wve &lluded. ta,I believa it was ehizty-odd re=-enclations. ~e majority of the reci:ll!lllle!l.dations were the in-plant c:onditior.s which potentially could affect the health of the people workinq in the plant, that was the .;m&jority of the rac:o11111endations.

And,o£ coune, the last part .of the question asked i.f the COIIIPllllY was livinq up to their obliqations- 'l'he c:ompany has responded • in. a positive manner but the follaw-up to these recolllllleDd.ations 1 of course, is to ensure ERCO ' s compliance is the responsibility of the Occupational Health and Safety that comes under the Department of Labour and Manpower. And similiarly , the other reCO!IIIIIendations relatinq tc the onqoinq monitorinq in tne a.iz: aXld. water 7that comes under the Department of consumer·Affairs and Environment.

As far as we were concerned woe were responsibla for c;ettinq tha ··.:study 9oinq and helpinq to monitor and it is ou:r understandinq that ncoDIIIII!ndations are beinq implemented. accordinq to a scheclule which is acceptable to the department's concerned. MR.. SPElUt!R (S"IM."!S) : The hon. Minister of Transportation and C0111111m1icati.ons • MR.

C. 'BRE'l"!' : .Mr • Spealcer , there is a question on the Order Paper today, Question No. 33 and I am at a loss to kDcw why it is there because I am sure the people of Little Ha:rbour East have been aware for quite sc._ time now that the contract . for the upqradinq and pavinq of the Little Harbour East ROad has been let to Vikinq construction, the road is already re-constructed and hopefully the gavement will be done before the end of Septelllber. AN HON. MEMBER: (lnau~lal !m. C. Si!E'rl': Yes, we gave it to them out ~of te·nder.

l .• Auqus~ 6, 1979 Tape NC. 556 ow- 2 PRESEN'riNG PETITIONS MR. SPEAKER: (SIMMS) The hon. member for FOrtune - !le:aaitaqe. MR. o. STEWARr: Mr. Speaker, I rise to 'Pretsent a. petition on behalf of 300 residents of 'l'ernnc:evil.l.e and sw:ro'Wldinq caaamities. The prayer ot the petitior1 re3ds as fallows, "We.,. the undersiqned residents of Terrence'9i.lle and the suz::cunciinq colllllllmities make st%Cnq rec:~datians to the Gaverl'llllent of Newfoundland and Labrador that they will. give immediate action eo the Terrenceville road.

This road,completed in l940 1is the oldest road on the Burin Peninsula and for the past thirty-nine years has received little or no attention. This road also acts as a. very important t%ansportation link for the Fortune - Kermitaqe district in that 75 per cent of the people travelling to St. John's from Seal cove, Fortune Bay to Ternncell'ille , thirteen COli'IIIIUni ties, travel by CN coastal to Terrencall'ille and 1:hen by road to St. John's.'' I would like for this ~titian to loa placed on the 'l'able c;~f the e:ouse and referred to the departlltent conciiQleCi. *·~' The hon. Leader of the Opposition.

MR. 0 • JAMIE.SON : Mr. Spealcer, I want with all of the vehemence that I can co'lllllland to support this petition. I think it is an absolute disgrace that this government has over the years so totally neglected that road from the Burin Peninsula Kiqhway down to 1'errencevi11e.

Farthll%lll0re, it is, if I may say so, it is in la.%'9e 111easure1 too, a breach of faith because there was a clear-cut understandi.nq, about which I a111 more familiar than anyone in this Rouse, that when the Burin Peninsula Highway was completed that the access roads from the Bur:i,n Peninsula aiqhway would be dealt with e:xpeditiously by the Government of ~ewfoundland. 'l'hat was done, in fact, I believe it would be possible to find it in writinq in an understanding between the ,Federal and the Provincial Governments. .1400

l ~- · - I I l . Auc;ust 6, 1979 Tape No. 556 OW - 3 lm. D. JAMIESON: Now, this is not just another piece of !U.qhway. :<e art all aware t.'l.at there are a lot of qravel roads in Newfoundland that need desperately to be upqTadad and we will be talkin9 more about that later, but Terrenceville is also the main access point for the vhole of the SOuthcoast mach of which c:ontinues to need beat transportation to join up and link vith this road at Terrenceville and it is not only haz.ardDu.s btlt apart alt09ether f%'0111 that it is a IIIDSt uncomfortable drive. I have made it dozens, literally hundreds of times myself and 1401.

,_ Auqust 6, 1979 Tape No. SS7 so - l MR. 0. JAMUSON: I fail to Wldersta.a4 wily it is so law on the ~avec~ment's list of priorities that year utar year after year tha saa.e kinds ~f petitions are presented and llO action whatever results on this pU'ticular piece of hiqhwa.y, so I am q1Uta dellqhted. to sJlPP(lrt this petitign. SOME BON. :£MBEBS : !lear, hear. OROERS OP THE DAY MR. Sl'EAlCER: (SiDasl orar 3. Coaaittae of ways and Ma&ns. The Budqet debate. MR. s. ~= ~. Spe&lcer. j ·~ $. SPEAXER: The bon. IIIUibar for t.al'oile. MR. S. !lEAlCl: T.bank you, Mr. Speaker. [ SQ.ME HON. 1£MBERS : !lear, hear. MR.

S • NEARr: Mr. Speakel:', I am ~lad t.ba hen. Premier r I is in his seat tcdi=LY. to hear what I am goinq to say in connection L with the Budqet that was b:reuqht dawn last weeJc. i:a this iJ.on. HOWie or tile week before last. I hope the hen. gentleman does !lOt ~et up and leave now before I get started b~e I have a few Chin~s to say to the han. qentleman in co~tian witb. the Bud~et iUXi various and. SWldry other matters beca'a.Se, Mr. Speaker, this dei:late so far, the Budget debate, seems more like a T.hrone Speech debate then it does a. Budget debate.

A lot of n.ew members have taken adva:ltaqe of the Bwiqet deba ta, in view of tha fact that the liouse may close down shortly,to make their ~n speeches in the House with very little reference to the .Bud.qet, reference to just about sverythinq Wlder the sun and that is the way it sheuld. l:le. There is ncthing wronq with that. The Budget debate is a very . .,ide-ran~inq debate and non• members whe ..,articipate in the debate can range far afield. They can almost please themselves. They can ea.lk about eve.ryth.in~ =Uer the sun provicting it is within the rules of this !len. aouse.

And r congratulate all those fine ~entlenen who nave made t.'leir ~1a.iden S?eecil.es and ~li a.bollt jtm~ about everythin~ und.er t:he sun except 1402

Au.qust 6, 1979 Tape ~o. 557 so - 2 ;m. s. NEAR¥: the Budqet. The bQn. gentleman, I noticed, from liarllour MUn - s.ell Isla.M (Mr. &. Doyle) had soaet:Ainq tc say al:lout t:ha abortion laws in this ,ro'l7inca. Well, the ilon. gentlellliUl lllilde a very good. point and I believe the hen. gantlllllliUl, thou.qh, woulcl be very well advised if he would take up the matter with lUs c:ollea9Ue, the :un.ister of liealth (Mr. w. House), whQ Hems to have turned a oliDd eye to abortion in this Province.

The wbcle· gove=mant, this goverlliiUint ila.s turneci a bliild. eye tQ abortion in this Province. we have in Newfowxil.;J.nci allort.ion on daiUUIIi in .;ase the llo.u. gaDtlllllliUl is =t aware of it, something that we lulve raiaed, at least I have ra.isecl in thi.$ House for the last blo or three yeus a.M these c:OIIIIIIittses that w.z-e set up in the iloapitals are a c:Cillplete fU'C:e. Do net let anyllociy try allci fcol tile hon. gentlsman, he i.s onto a gcocl thinq. aut the hon. gentleman is supportinq a government that i3 turning a !:lli.nd eye to &llortion in t:l1is Province.

Allci J;Jerhaps the hon. gentleman lllight care to have a faw -rds wi.th bi.s colle&9U&S 1 the l-iinister of aealth(Mr.'ioi.liouse) aDd the Minister of J'Witice (Mr. G. Ottenhaimer) about t:hi.s matter. NOw, Mr. Speaker, about the :auaqet itself. The hen. Minister of Finazu::e (Dr. J. collins) t:ieci tc leave the .iJIIprasaion that this was a hcl.li-tha-lille Sudqet, a holcl-the-line Sudqet. Well, it is nct a hold-the-tine auciqat, Mr. Speaker, and the hen. gentleman shculci not have t:rieci to delude us into thinkinq that this is a hclcl-t:ha-line audqet.

The Buciqat ila.s gone up by somewhere between ~200 and $300 mil.lion this yeiAr. The Sudqet new of this Province, revenue and expenditure, amcunta to $1.4 billion. It is a recorci. Evezy year now we are establishing a n- rec:ard of speno;Unq in this ?rovince. This year we will be spending in the vicinity cf $1.4 billion. Anli that is a record, a new record for Newfoundland. Only t.'u'ee cr four years age t;he ~istar cf Finance blasted a.llout the fact that we had our first billion ®llar budget in ~ewfcullliland. And three or fcur years later we are ~ to Sl.4 billion, we are gcinq tc spend 1403

Auquat 6, 1979 Tape 558 EC - l this year $300 lllil.llcn IIIDre than - cii.c1 las-e :fe&r, anc1 the Minister of Finance (Cr. J. COllins) calls it a 'bolci-the-lina' audqet. I do not Jcnow how the llon. qe.nueman arrived a-e that conc:lusion. New, Mr. Speaker, in the lut seven years i11. this Province tne provincial debt in Newfo~m.cilanc1 has trebled. 'lbe provincial debt at tlle ~t, ac:corciinq ta tne lllini.ster' s awn figures in the Estimates, is $2.6 billion. Now, Mr. Speaker, I haw to :tlllllind bon. gentleDBn &ltllouqh we are so lov.y-davey in the House these days, Mr.

Speaker, :bat we are all so interested in co-operation and tne like, tha.t you are not allowed ta refer ta the past; eve~q ill the put, tnat se'981l yeus tha.t we had Mr. :rraa~t Mcore.s Premier of this Province, tha.t seven years has ta be :OlottiHl out, blotted off tne record of N-folmcilanci. aut ciurinq that seVIIn years, Mr.

Spoukel:: - and tne hon. the Premier who now occupies the P:remiu's cS:Lair, wrum he wu a s4Ulior minister ~ the Mcores aciiD:iniatration, during that period. tha.t they want ~ eo forqat 4bout, tnat they want WI not to ~lliMr, blot it out of Z'<!ur lllinc1, forget about it, sweep it 1Jilder the ruq - t:b&t seV.U years our provincial debt trebled.

When the Tories took over in this ?rovinca in l972 on January lSth- flhi.ch in rirf opinion wu a sorry day fer !>lewfounc1lanc1 on January 18, 1972, the provincial. debt in this Province 'las S700 lllil.Licn, total, cii.rect and incii.rect debt owinq by the people of this Provinc;a. And I ~r Czcsbie, ·.me is now F~ca Minister up in Ottawa, rantinq and ravinq and bell.yachinq and preaclti.nq his daclll and gloom that the Province was banlcrup-e. I remelliMr the member for St.. John's :tast (Mr.

Marshall) who i.s now President of the CO~mc:il, t.ellinq us in this Chamber - those of us wile were here then - that the Province was bankrupt., there was no way we coW.d surviv.; Smallwood was qone IliaCi, gene crazy, gone on a spencii.nq ' spree, was spendinq it like a drunken sailor. And I want to remind llon. qenUamen that the debt at tnat time was S700 million - $700 llli.llion tat.U debt. Seven years later uncier a. Tory reqima the debt of the Province is ~2.6 billion, three times IIICire than it was in 1972, and we do not have one thing to show for it. nothing.

All 1o1e have is a long list of failures, lllismanagement 1404

Auc;ut &, 1979 Tape 558 zc- 2 and. the mast <:ec:upt go'ftCimeD.t in the wbQl.e of Nevfouncl.l.and. and. pi:Qbably in the whole of canada.. All HOH. ICEKBtR: He4r, hau-! 'lh&t is wba.t we hAve to sbow for it. Alld. th&t is what they want us to fo~t. We ue s-uppoaed. to push th&t out of our llli.Ada. We ue not svppoMIU to briDq that lJP• What wa are suppoaed. to do now is to co.. in and. co-operata, and. if we keep that up, Kr.

Speolker, wh.at - vi.ll. be doinq shortly, u I tol.d. & nevsm&ll over the weekend., wa wil.l ha&r the Strauas walt: IIIWiic COIDinq in t!u:ouqh. the loudapealcer of Coafedera.ti011 B'ail.ciinq riqb..t han in the 01.ulber, and. - will all. go o~ anci ~ so.-bod.y 011 the othar side and. - will all. walt: azouad the flcor of the Chamber to the Stra.u~~a w&la IRUAic. It. will probably be the l.ut tango. ADd. they ue all so pleueci AGout tb.ia. No wonder - SOME: HOH. MEMBEBS: S&,. the lut walt: for -· MR. NEARr: ThAt is riqb..t., Mr. Spealter. MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) Order, pl.eaaa!

MR. l!IEAU: That is wba.t we will be llauinq, 1 s.&ve the lut danc:a for -· 1 I do not know who is gcinq to ha.ve the last <anc:a. 'l'ha ha&t is qettinq to you. No, Mr. SpeU.U, it is nat the llaat that is qettinq 1:D -· I will tell you wha.t is qettinq to -, it is wtlat t1U.s c:~ are qettinq -ay with- that is what is qettinq to me.- wtlile we sit lwre md. preach co-operation and. averyl:lody is gcinq to be love.y-Q:)~y. And I llllWt say, it is the first tu. in my life I aver !lad to aqrae with ltr.

Wick COllins when he caM out and said, 1 'lhe Opposition today are too soft. 1 And the Opposition are qettinq too soft, Sir, with all. due respect to my colleagues ... not all of thalli., but there are a f- who are qettinq toe soft. SOME HON. MEMBE:RS: Oh, oh! MR. ta:ARY: !U'.

Spealter, you c:an argue all. you like about 1 Maybe it is too early1 ~~~a.y.be we should qive the qove:mD*lt a cnanc:a1 m&ybe we should qive the n- Premier a cnance.' You can ~e the ar~nt, 1 Wel.l., a. year or I:WO from new or 111a.y.be a. year befora the ele~-ion it is time to talk about Mount Scio House, it is time to talk aeout lllismanaqement, 1405

r . I I i.. ,_ ' . ' - l .. - ' - August 6, L979 Tape 558 EC - 3 ~fell, I . s-.r I;Q t:1tg 1 Mr .• s~r~ bau.Mu.b.! iii-. Y91f. ~ ~ ·-= __.~.._ ·aAA. · -.~. ~ w•••~t 1#4 f~uns ~406

August 6, 1979 Ta~e No. 559 NM- l MR. NEARY: and mistakes that are costing the people ' . of tfti.s Province a small fortune,. yov. deal with it now. Yov. do not r- 1 wait until a year or so before an election, or you do not wa.it to give 1 L everybody a chance and then bring it up.Becauae right now we are in the middle of SUIIIII!er and there is no election on, and it is going to be three or four years ~fore we have another election, so you have to sweep it all under the rug. Well, Mr.

Speaker, there may be those who subsaille to that philosophy but from what I have said hen. gentlemen may rgalize that I am not one of these people 1 I think these situations have to be dealt with now. I think, Mr. Speaker, in my opinion, the party is over. The party is over and one of the qreat problems facing this Province is our provincial debt 'llh.icil is now S2. 6 billion, trclaci in the last seven years and that is not funny. An:d money is going to be harder to get and with the devaluation of the American dollar, Mr.

Speaker, we are paying throuqh the nose for the money that we are borrowing and we cannot keep it up much longer. We are told now that there is likely to be a major recession in the United States, one of the major sources of our money when we float a bond issue. One of the major sources of money is the millionaires, the -.yb&gs down in the IJ'nited States. But now L . we are told there is going to be a recession in the United States and it is going to have devastating effects in Canada, because Mr.

Speaker, any ignoraJIIQus at all in this world knows that the steel industry are the leaders, that the steel industry sets the pace in the Onited States I_ • and 1n Canada. Because what happens in the United States overflows im:o canada. ( ' Now there is a sllllllp in the ~utomotive industry and Chrysler are talking about shutting down. Why it is enough to frighten you, Mr. speaker. Chrysler are talking about shutting do~ and Ford are laying off 500 or 600 people and Quebec is trying to make a bid t .o get the Chrysl.er Corporation to move into the Province of Quebec. And the things that a:e happeninq, Mr.

Speaker, are very demor.alizing and that recession is qoing to have its effect right here in ~is Province ~ that is why I say, Sir, the party is over. The party is over as far 1407

August 6, 1979 Tape No. 559 NM- 2 MR. NEARY: as living high off the hog is concerned and what we are going to have to do in this Province, ·Sir, we are going to have to keep a sharp eye on our Provincial debt. It is too higi::l now. Newfoundl4nders are paying the hi.ghest taxes in the whole of Canada. we have record unemployment. we have very slow growth. This year I think the Minister of Finance forecast that we would have a.bout a 3 per c:aDt iD=-... iD om: Gross ProviDcial Product and I doubt very lllUCh if •.re will have that.

I believe 3.5 ~r c:ent the bon. gentleiUIIl !orec:aat, md I doubt vert mw::b. if - will. h&W that. And so, Mr. Speaker, we cannot afford to stay on U1is wild. l:linge that the Tories have l:leen on for the last six or seven years and who used to condemn Joey Smallwood for driving the Provincial debt up to S700 million and I do not have to remind hon. gentlemen that when Mr. smallwood did it it was shortly after Confederation when we needed hospitals and schools and roads and industry in this Province and I could qo on with a whole list the 1 • • lenqth of this Chamber, Sir.

All the schools that were ouilt in Newfoundland, new schools, the university was ouilt by the Liberal ?arty, the schools, every hospital in Newfoundland '"as either started ' or built by a Liberal Administration. The Trans-canada aighway was \ I - built by a Liberal Administration. Every fish plant, Sir, every fish plant - and we hear the criticism (Inaudible) go on, ewxy fine 11a.ll. Big fire halls. MR.

NEARY: - every fish plant in Newfoundland was built oy a Liberal Administration, every fish ?lant, and in the mid sixties ewenty-six of them, ewenty-six fish plants in this Province were on the verge of bankruptcy, they were bankrupt and the government had to bail them out. So every industry, every :nine, every paper !ll.i.l.l, just al:lout every school, every hospital, .the U!Uvazsi.ty the Trans-Canada aiqhway, the Cement mill, Labrador City, Wabush, you can go on, olae, blah, 1408

I L. [ [ r I . L, [ [ r L L. [ [ r L [ ( - ,_ I._ Auqust 6, l979 Tape !'l"o. 559 NM- 3 Jo!R. NEARY: blah, forever_. you can qo on about the list of a.ccompl.j_shments of the L.il::iera.J. Party a.nd the L.Uleral government in this Province. But after spe:adinq $2.6 billion a.nd ~liA9 our Provincia-l debt in seveD. years, the Tories do not have one thinq, Mr. Speaker, . 1409

l. 1 • • [ r i I ·~ ·~ l.~ Auqust 6,1979 T~pe No. 560 AH-1 !om. NEARY: they do not have one item they can point their finc;er to and say, "Look, this has been ~ success." (I:naudiblel ;?ave any roads, no schools (inaudible) no water systems (inaudi.l:lle). MR.~: All they did, Mr. Speaker, in case ch&w-IIICIUth wants to know, Sir, all they did was continue Duildinc; on ~ foundaUon that the t.iherals had pused over to them. That is what they did , Sir. Did they pave any r~? 'l.'!ley paved the roads that wen on tile drawinc; boards, that were c;oinc; to be pav.d anyway. 'l.'!ley finished the Ca.rbonear Hospital.

They finished the hospital in Twillinc;ate • They finished the Health Sciences Complex that - hAd started, that the Liberals had started. So they do not have one item tllat tlley can point their finqer to. No new mines, no n- fish plants, no new paper mills. They have not even been able to keep the industries c;oinq that were started and the oil refinery is a c;ood example of tllat.

And in case tile hon. tile Premier~ who is in a rather fousty mood today, in case he i.s interested, the oU ac;reement that he i.s ta.lkinq about wi til tile First Arabian Corporation, the oil supply he is t&lkinq about is an oil supply that will came from only two places in the world. It is a crude oil tllat has a hic;h sulphur content.

And in order for the Premier, who thinks that he is the Premier of the First l\rabian Corporation, that he will deal with nobody else but the First Arabian Corporation, that he will deal with nobody elsa who bas a better deal for Newfoundland, that he is c;oinq to stick with the l1'.irst Arabian Corporation throuc;h thick and thin; no matter what happens he is c;oinq to stick with the First Arabian Corporation even if it means spendinq extra IIICDey down in Boston to have an environmental study done because the only crude they can c;et is of il. hiqn sulphur content, And that is why the hen. gentleman is spendinq that 1110ney , the taxpayers' money, and there is nc need of it beca-use there is another proposal where they 14j,0

.-­ I I Auc;ust 6,1979 Tape No. 560 AH-2 MR. NE,lUtY: have a fi~ contract for a supply of sweet crude. And the only thinq that this crude the hon. gentleman is referrinq ·to in answerinq questions in the House thi:s afternoon , that crude only c:c~~~es frcm two SJnall. countries in the world and liiDet of the oil refineries will not buy it. You will choke if they WJe it in Come By Chane~~~. You will choke. It is only used throuqhout the worlcl as a flux to sweeten up oil that c:cmes from the Opec: count-9'j_es.

And this hiqh sulphur oil, crude oil t."le hon. qentleman is talkinq about is not c:cminq from the Opec: ooun~es 7 l.t is callinq from a little place riqht in between Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, a little dot on the JUP, you can hardly sea it7 that cannot sell oil throuqhout the 111:1rld. They cannot sell it because it is of suc:h a hiqh sulphur content. Yet, the Premier of this Province who thinks he is ~~~&rried to Mr. ~u and thinks he is Prellli.er of the Pirst Arabian COrporation 1 refuses to deal with anybOdy else.

That hen. qantl8111iU1 has new lti.red a fi%lll dcvn in Boston to do an enviroiUIIenta.l study just so he can anter into an aqreement with his buddies. "To hell with the people of the Province, that is what the hon. gentleman is sayinq 1 I do not care who got a better deal. We are not goinq to deal with that old Shaheen. that rotten, corrupt individual who vas brouqht in here l:ly Mr. Smallwood. We are not qoinq to have anythinq to do with him. He may have the best deal in the interest of the people of this Province. He may have a crude oil contract'"- and the hon. gentleman screws up his face.

The hon. gentleman better read the two proposals. He better read the two of them as I did. There is no c:omparison, no cocnpa.rison at all in this world and the crude oil contract is there. But the lien. gentleman who thinks that he is not - beq your pardon! l\N HON .~ER: What about the S600 million? ~R. NEA!iY: Yes. What about it? Mr. Speaker, I have gone t.~rouqh that exercise in this House. That 5600 million,by the way - and the hon. gentlemen who were here when 14U

Auc;us·t 6, 1979 Tape No. 560 ~\a debates took pla~ will re~~~emk)er that when Ataka cu,e into this Provinca they were dealing wtth this qove:nunent, the $300 million credit that t;hey qave l'.r, Shaheen and the oil refinery was on account. It was for future worK in this Province.

If they were investinq in the future of New:founcUand and in the future developlllent of this Pro'Vinc:e, they were l:froaised the iron ora in case the h.on. qentleman does not ]!:nov it, they were prcml,..sed the iron ore down at Jull~e Lake and that is why they did not lll.ind throw1Jaq S300 lllillion of unsec:ureci money 'into the oil refinery, providinq the shippinq and the ~. oil.

That is why t!iey did not mind doinq it, eec:auae they ~ premised by the Premier of this Province who is naw qone, who left his doqs up in Mount Scio Rouse before he qot kicked out and they did so much dall!a<Je up the%e that it is now qo,i.nq to cost 1412

( .. ~--· August 6, 1979 Tape 561 PK - 1 the taxpayers of this P:evince thousands of dollars to replace the carpet, and the things that were torn up in that house, whc dcgs were left there for three weeks going mad in the bouse, and when they went over to go into the house you could hardly get in w~th. the stink.

That is t.'lul gentleutan who promisad Ataka that he .was going to giv• them the iron ore deposit in JUlienne Lake, aJld thAt is why they were investing in Newfoundland. aut caning back to tne crude oil again, Sir, the only place crude oil is available to the First Arabi~ Corporation­ and the hen. gentleman has such a skinful of hate that he dces not want to see or hear tell of Mr.

Shaheen, even though he may have a better proposal, it may be 'better for the unsecured creditors, it may be better for the Newfoundland people, it may be better for t.'le Newfoundland eCQilCIIIY but they are such a skinful ' of bate, some of the ministers, they do not want to see this individual, they want to deal with this banla:upt First Arabian Corporation who run a chain of hotels and ,that is about al.l they have. And Ashland Oil that the hen. gentleman refers to in his answering questions this afternoon, Ashland oil are cutting back their own refineries because they have no crude.

Why do not hon. gentleman do a little research, do a little homework· and find these things out? It only takas a few phone calls or a few messages around the world, a few telegrams to find out. And then the hon. gentleman •.rould have the facts and they would not be able to look over at me and say, the- hon. member for LAPoile is being partisan, this is all politics. It is not politics, Mr. Speaker. It is not politics. It is a matter of public record in case the hon. gentleman does not know it.

All is required is a little research on the part of the hon. gentleman, and then maybe he would not support that government. ae would hop over here like a little bunny and sit on this side of the House or maybe one of our co-operative members would qo over when the waltz music comes in and they could have a little 1.U3

r • I I I' I L.s r L [ Auqust 6, 1979 Tape S6l PK - 2 M:r. !leary: tanqo across the floor. AN BON. MEMBER: The last tango. MR. NEARY: '!'he last tanc;o. That is riqht. ! do not kno•# who is goinq to have the last ta.n:qo. So I say, Mr. Speaker, .that the biqqest burden to the people of this Province is the Provincial debt, S2.6 billion, $2,600,000, 000. Are we banlc:rupt now, Mr. Speaker? Is NewfoWldland bankrupt now, Your Honour? She was bankrupt when the hen. gentleman in l97l, wen t.~ hen. gentlellliUl was sittinq down there, three or four or five of them sittinq over there, the PrOvince was . bankrupt.

Well we have gone from $700 iDi.llion to S2. 6 billion. Are we bankxupt now? What does the hen. gentleman have to-say about it now? As I say, Sir, the party is over. I hope it is not, but I am afraid this recession that is settinq in in the United States is goinq to have very qrave and serious repercussions in Canada and in Newfoundland. And unless, Mr. Speaker, we are prepared to. come into this bon.

House and debate and cii.scuss items and matters that affect the ordinary people of this Province like the develcpment of industry, the =eation of new jobs, lowerinq the taxes, unless we are prepued to dt;l that, Mr. Speaker, then I am afraid that we '<'l'ill have failed not only this generation in Newfoundland but we will have failed our children and their children. Now, M:r. Speaker , a hal.f an hour is not very lonq, Sir. I can hardly qet in high gear in a half an hour in this liouse. This is another thine; they have done, Sir, with the estimates this time.

AS I said the other day on radio, yesterday I think it was, they have taken the power out of the House of Assembly and they have put it out in the board rooms and some other out-of-the- way places, and this is al.l desiqned, Sir, a deliberate attempt on the part of the government to give the government a free ride on their estimates, so that there will be no chance for the opposition to thoroughly analyze the item by item expenditures under the various 141.4

i\ugusc o, 1979 Tape 3ol P!< - 3 I M.r • !!ea.rv: subheads in t!le Budget. And t:..'lat: i s why ':bey have I L done that, :u-. Speaker, and I hope that nobody is naive a.od stupid r enough to ~ otnerwise. The hon. gentleman who is ~e godfather L of chis :J.ev scheme in his c:unni.ng way has :Danaged Ul qet Ul.e ?OWttr ! - of the purse sloughed of! ( .. I {- [ "-- ·- 1415

r '. \ ·' ( ' I '· . r·­ I I L. , . j August 6, 1979 Tape !<a. 562 NM- 1 MR.. NEARY: to the boardrooms and to the various committee rooms around various buildings in ~fferent parts of the city where you have three meetings going on sometimes at the same time and the t~ress cannot even cover the session of the House of Assembly let: alone cover three meetings.

So the hon. gentleman, the godfather of these rules and regulations now hopes that most of this stuff will not surface, that the people will not be able to get the facts. ! raised one little item today during the Oral QUestion Period, Sir, about something that went on in one of these committees when the Minister of Rural Development, who is spending about S4 million or $5 million of taxpayers' money, was so genenerows and so lti.nd as to give the Committee a li.st showing the description. of the project, where the project was taking place and the amount of the project, aut refused to give the Committee the names of those who were given secret loans.

The hon. gentle=an refused to give the names and the hon. gentleman can look at me now all he ·~ts. Mr. Speaker, this .a:ouse is entitled to know how every penney of tax money is spent. we are entitled to know it, including the names of those who received that money. Why that is so basic and so comman througllout the British Empire, and we are under tbe British Parliamentary system, that is so basic that I should not even have to mention it. Mr. Speaker, why would the hon. gentleman refuse to give us the names of all those people who received tax money? We are not running a bank. It is not a bank.

The bon. gentleman can get up all he wants and say, "Well,the bank does not give out the names." Well,the bank does not give out tax money. This is the taxpayers' money and if I was not a member of this Rouse, as an ordinary taxpayer in this Province, every taxpayer is entitled to know how the money was spent, where it was spent, when it was spent, and who received it. That is so basic, Sir, that you should not even have to bring it up. And the bon. gentleman refuses to give the Committee, and these committees are supposed to be so powerful and so effective. And this is supposed to 1U6

'. ,- 1 ~ I \. (" J L Auq1,1St 6, 1979 Tape ~o. 562 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: be accepted. On the minister has gone a little step further than his predecessor, he is going to qive us a list without names. The other fellow would not even give us a list. Now, the bon. gentleman thinlcs that this is great for the taxpayers of the Province, and we ha.ve sevem:y-five hours in which to debate the es'l;imates.

There are eight thousand, four hundred and some odd hours in a year and the government have been so generous as to qive us seventy-five hours to talk about a $1.4 billion budget. seventy- five hours out of eight thousand, four handred and some odd in a year, seventy-five hours. And now they have further reduced that. They bave taken the power of the purse out of the Legislature and put it out in the · board rooms and the other out-of-the-wa.y places hop;Lng that the people of this Province will not l:le able to see what they are doing with their 1110ney. MR.. J. CARTER: Your Party agreed with it. MR.

NEAP.Y: I did not agree witil it. I did not ~qree with it, Sir. Mr. Speaker, I would agree - MR. J. CAR!l'ER: Your Party did. - well. Sir, this is a !?art of this co-operation, this is a part of the tango I am u.lki.nq a~ut. This is the part of the sweetheart stuff that goes on, and as I say, Mr. Speaker, it is a "'onder - when that was being agreed on it is a wonder there was not a little violin music in the Chamber. MR. MORGAN: You are not very close to your Party anymore. The hon. member - MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, that is one thing about the Liberal Party, you can have your disagreements. MR.

MORGAN: You are not that close anymore. MR. NEARY: Onder the British Parliamentary system, Sir, the British Parliamentary system was built around the individual, and I would sWlmit now, Sir,· the hon. chaw-mouth over there from Bonavista South (Mr. Morgan), I ...ould !;let you, Sir, in a year or two from now ~hey will be crawling back on their hands and knees in this 141.7

... ugust 6, 1979 Tape r>o. 562 GH-3 !1R. ~Y: Chamber and saying, "Oh, let us get back, let us get back, bring ~~ Estimates back to the House of Assembly, bring the :C:st.imates l::lack to the 'i!ouse".

If there were committees where they had unlimited time and they could go on and meet all year round, it would be fine, but they have to conform to very rigid regulations and very rigid i \. .... procedures. 'ilhat happened is that now. even the 75 hours has been further cut down and moved out of the aouse of Assembly, and here we are discussing a $1.4 billion budget in the middle of ~~e Summer, the committees -~11 all have to report, I suppose, before the week is over, and the people ( ~ I of this Province are the ones who are going to suffer, Mr.

Speaker, \ . because those of us who feel that they would like to do a good job in r this House, those of us who would like to do their homework and do some research and dig up a bit of dirt and talk about Labrador !..inerboard and try to get an inquiry into the greatest scandal in canadian history, and I had something here by the way, I do not have time to read it now, but I had something here I had from Hamburg, Germany, today in connection with this Schofield Company that I cannot ;et any information on from the government.

Well, I ·.o~rote the company and now I am getting all the information I want, providing, providing, Mr. Speaker, providing that Mr. Frank ::tyan ... ho is the Chairman of the Board of Abitibi but who was also r·- \ the liquidator ; L... . 1418

I (- . ... ( r· \ . '·. Auqust 6, 1979 'l'ape No. 563 so - l MR. S. NEARY: f~ Labrador linerboarci and if there is a. conflict of interest, IllY Gcd., there is a. cue, who is also liquiciat.inq the w:indinq up of Lallrad.~ linarboa:d. at the same time lle ~ Cba i l'lMD of tile Board of Abit.il:li. if Mr. Ryan says, yes, I can have tile contract and. I can have the infcnaa.tion frcaa Schofielci. then I will get it. But I hava l11:1t been able ta get it :r0111 this but I wil.l get it, I guarantee you, wpposinq I have tc go tc Hamburq 111yself to get it.

But in the 1118a.ntime, Sir, a.s I say, a balf an ho~~r is l11:1t very long. Loolc, Mr. Sp~, I have not even ta.Jcan one itam off the top of this fila that I !lava here, things in c:onMction with the !Ncigat ana my time iA up. aDd I !lave ta draw my few remarks to an end.. But I cio hcpe, Sir, that I !lave, if I !lave cione aothi.nq else, that I have twiqgad that gentleman's c:onacia!lce en the otiler side ani that they will sea how foolish ani baw riciicious this syste111 is of tllese new rafo:cns that they brought in.

Sure, have your ecmmittee, sure, fling the estimates cut to the c:ommittee, sure, have stand.inc; cOIIIIDittees of the House, I am a.ll fer it but give ~ a. little time to do it and give the press a. little chance ta r~ it. MR. J. DINN: Why do you boycott the~~~? .)!R. S • NEARY : I am boycottinq them • MR •. J. OINN: Why? MR. S. NEARY : Why? Because, Mr. Speaker, I was elected to serve in this aouse. And I was elected to cio the .best jcb that I can for the people of this Province in this lie~e anci net in the dungeons of C.Oafedera.ticn Builclinq or in tha old Colonial 3uil.d.inq.

And so, Sir, I wiah I had 1110re time to deal with the provinCial debt but I am sure it is scJDeth.inq we are going to hear l!IQX'e about in the future, :-~r. Speaker, a.nd I can only, at this ?Qint in t.izle, issue a. warning to ~e government of this Province that the day of reckcninq is net toe far away. And as I said a few momena ago, Mr. Speaker, the party is over.

,. . Tape :.~o. 563 SD - 2 l_ MR. 52EA!a:R: (Butt) The hen. member for the Bay of Islands. Sa!!: HON. ME!-IBERS: Hear , hear. MR. L. WOODROW: Mr. Speaker, I r1!11118111ber attending a session in the old Colonial. Building on one occasion and tile lata Peter Cashin spo;.. two and one bali hours. and ha was just as forceful as tile hen. lllei!IQer from :.aPoile (Mr. S.

Neary) • I suppose he feels b.e has a lllission to perform and one can only conqratulate him but I would c~y have to <ilsaqree with him when he says that nothinq was done since l97l since this administration took over. lie forgets the water and sewer projects that took place, the sc:hools, tb.e new hospitals, ~ fish plants, tile junior college and you ~ go on and on. Mr. Speaker, sin.; a this has been ey first opportunity to speak in the House since tile start of the Thirty-eighth. Ge.ceru Assembly, I would like to offer my congratulations to the Speaker (Mr. r..

Simms) and to you, the Oeputy Speaker and to L. the Chairman of CCIIDIILittaes (Mr. J. 3-att) • I would also say, Mr. Speaker, it is t.'l.e first opportunity I had to p~licly congratulate the Premier since the June 18th election. I would like to say ehat it was his dynamic personality, sincerity, llcnesty and dete:mination .-~ to put the Province on a gooci financial basis, oJ.ll of these things ·· ' and many more are the key to his success.

And I ca.n only hope tllat in suc.'l. trying times that we are going through with talks of recession, not only, in fact, in canada l:lut in the United States as well and in every other country) I only hope that his health will last and Divine P-rovidence will be with him fer many years to CCIIIe. I would also like to conqratula. te the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. o. Jamieson)) he is not in his seat at the moment .but he is probably ·. . 1420

{'""- ! Auqust G, 1979 Tape 564 &C - l MR. l«llDRCW: !U.s success on vinninq b..ia seat on MAy 22nd and &lso on June 18th. r These ue certainly outstand:Lnq' dates ill. lti.s life. I would like ta say L [ the title of 'the golden tanquad oratar', au.cl. the :beauty of his oratory can be compared tc the lata Sir Wil.£ncl. Laurier iiAcl. the late Bisbcp Fallon r of t.mdan, On~io.

I fee.l SOJa day he uy :ceca- the Gove:z:nor Genara.l \ ... of Can&ciA. [ I vould. also like ta con<;Jn,tul.ate all. the n- -=-rs on l::lath sides of the !iowa• and. !iay tc them. that i! thay work like to uaun them. that this is the people's BoWie and. perhaps they are [ goinq to 0. a little bit jittery ill. the l::aaqinninq, l::aut they have been sant han l::ay the people and they shculd not have any fsar in tryinq to work here ill. tl1i.s Scuae of Aasembly 1 in their .offices and. any other place for the good. [ of ' their conatituants because the people of Newfound.lancl. deserve a l.Qt more [ Speakinq of the goverru.nt 1118111be:rs, I notice that they hav. lll&de our offices a beehive of ac:tivi.ty, and..

I feel that. no doubt. tlU.s is true for both sides of the iieuse and it will continua. I would also like ta say a special word of conqratulationa tc 'It'/ two colleaque.s from !lumber East ( Ms • Verqel and. !luft)er West (Mr. Bai.rd). We are worki.nq there toqethar for that particular area. In f~t, the three districts in the Bay of Islands are oo~ed tc !lumbar Eut, li'UIIIbar Wast and the Bay of Islands, and I hope to have - good work.inq relations w.i th them over t:1:Le next four or five years. ! . &ow, Mr. Speaker, it is wry difficult to ··--· divorce the Thrcna Speec:il frcm the Bu.dc;at Spaecn.

But I have to refer a.t the present time to. the Throne Speech., and I would like to say that the Throne Speec:ll is a. continuation of the P.C. policies over ':he past ~iqh.t years, and t know Wlder the nev administration it will continue. It is easy to say that the Throne Speec."l frcm yeai to year has said the- same ··- 1421.

r­ ' ' L_.' ,--_ 1 l_ r· L. r...., L [ C' L l_. I - , I .~ ... { . ·,_ Auquse 6, 1979 'rape 564 EC- 2 I tiU.ak that is gainq to eontinlla for a lonq time. It is ,.ry difficult !lOt to repeat lllli.ttars fro1ll y.ar to year iA m. 'rlmme 5t*tdl as industries Ulte fisbinq, papex mills, llydra, bO•t l:nu.l.d.inq, fonst:y and others IIIWit 1422 •

r- t • L.. ,....... ' L I ..__ r Auqust 6, 1979 Tape !lo. 565 OW - 1 MR. L. WOODROW: to the five year plan in the Throne Speech which-, I think 1 is certainly something worth boasting about. The five year plan will seek federal co-operation with regards to, first of all fisheries development including the primary Landing and Dist:i:ibution Centre at Hal::bour Grace. This is certainly going to be an excellent means of providing employment to the people of the East COII.St and there must be a lot of work and study to do on such a qrut proqramme as this. Certainly, lU'.

Speaker, Labrador Resource Development, including the t.cwar Churchill Power Develop~~~ent, a new forestry develepment plan, a n- and expanded Marine Research and Development ProqraJIIIN! and an improved technical training proqrallllle, these 111atters referred to, Mr. Speaker, have no doubt occupied a lot of the government 1 s time since they o;ct in po,..r and no doubt will continue to occupy a lot acre of their time. , .. Likewise, Mr. Speaker, just to continue on, \. ..• r L..

I • l .. ,. . the propos~d transportation plan will centsr around three 7ery important projects: The continuation and ~xpansion of tl"'e Latlrador Resource Development Transportation plan which will be aim at the creation of a year-round port in Labrador together with highway into Western Latlrador by way of Churchill Falls. Number two, the re-negotiation of present financial arrangements relating to the upgrading of the T:rans- Canada Highway. I would like, M:r.

Speaker, just to stop here and say that on Friday evening I drove from Stephenville to corner Brook and the read in that area is goil''l'; to be completely changed altogether. And I also had the opportunity receatly,to drive from Corner Brook out to St.

John 1 s and there is quite a lot of work going on so I hope that this ·work will continue and that the government will be able to re-negctiate,hopefully 1 maybe a 75/25 or even a ?0/10 agreement ·rith the Government of Canada. ~he commitllent by the Government of canada ~o the continued operation of the railway and to its significant upgrading over time: ~ow , of course tl'le hon . P:=~mier mentioned this 1423

i L_; n L 0 0 0 c c 0 c 0 p LJ L...· August 6, 1979 Tape :llo. 565 OW - 2 MR. L. WOODROW: during the campaign and I am sure he meant what he said. He spoke about a permanent railway for the Province of N-foundland and Labractor and I think that we, just the same as any other PYOvince, the Province of Quebec or the Province of Ontario or the Province of Alberta,are entitled to a railway other- wise, we are~ perhaps,being looked upon as a second-class or a third- class province . Mr.

Speaker, speaking now of the needs of the district of the Bay of Islands,IIDlch has been done in the field of water and se-raqe in the rural areas but a lot remains to be done. Certainly, just about every. home, at least I think so, in the urban part of the district has water and sewerage facilities and this is being improved on from year to year. But a lot has been done in the other coiiiiiWlities but still a lot remains to be dona.

For example, in the communities . of Slllllllll!:rside and Irishtown a permanent water and sewer system is needed and this woul.d cost today about Sl million or perhaps it ·..rouJ.d run into a couple million dollars. But I understand that engineering is being done on . 1424

r I L. C' ' I ..... (~ ) ' - r l_. r . I L. ( -- August 6, 1979 Tape 566 PK - l ~- '.ioodrow: this ·~ter and sewer system, and hopefully something can be done on it next year. I have been informed by ~~e han. Minister of MUnicipal A£f5irs and Housing (Mr. Windsor) there is nothing in the Budget for this ye5r. I am disappointed, but hopefully something will be done next year. Also, Mr. Speaker, '"e are continuing the water and sewer systems in the communities of cox's Cove, Mciver's, Gi11ams and Meadows.

And on the South shore of the Bay of Islands, water and sewer systems are needed, and especially sewerage systems are needed. In fact, there is certainly danger of pollution in ~~ese places and I hope that in time, I hope in the next year or so , the Department of MUnicipal .<\.£fairs will see fit to look at these communities also. It is going to take millions of dollars and I understand tbat there are only s.o many dollars to go around.

I further understand that there are now fifty-two districts in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and every member in ~~e 3ouse has needs in his district and they are all, 5S we say, crying out and they have a right to cry out to get more work done. aut it is all a matter: I think 7 of dollars and cents and we must be reasonable and not, as ·~ say, act childish on these matters. In fact, I would not ~ant to be the one who bas to make the plans and to decide where monies are going to be spent, I can assure you. Mr.

Speaker, there are two more communi ties in the Bay of Islands district, the communities of York !!arbour and Lark Harbour, and these communities are growing communities. over the past two or three years about twenty-five new homes have been built in these communities, and they are ~ontinuing to grow. In fact, people are leaving the cities, they are leaving Co:rner Srock, and they are moving out to both sides of the Bay of Islands and this is going to present, as I said, problems with such things as water and sewerage and problems of pollution and the like. 1425

r I L. [ r~ L [ r~ 1 l~ r~ L (" L [ [ [ r I L- r· I r -­ ' I L- :... ..... August 6, 19.79 Tape 566 PK - 2 ~- WOODROW: I am glad to know, Mr. Speaker, that we have been afford approximately $250,000 L~ the Budget to build a spanking new bridge in the. COIIIIIIUili ty of Lark Harbour. · And over the weekend I had the pleasure of looking over the project, and it is going on at a relatively good pace. But, Mr. Speaker, I am disappointed about one thing regarding this bridge and that is to say that the contractor has not hired local labour. I felt, Mr.

Speaker, that the labour should be hired from the area, instead of that he has gone outside of the community. And not only has he done that, but he has hired men, in fact, men who were able t:o tie up their long-liners and go to ~rk on this bridge. I think this is very unfair. Whilst I do not feel there is any written law for the contractor to hire local people I certainly think that it would show a lot of good will in the community, and there is danger, in fact, of th.is bridge being picketed unless the contractor decides to hire on scme local labour. Mr.

Speaker, ! am also happy to know that the NIP or the ~eighbourhood Improvement Programme in the Curling area, the urban part of my district, will be completed this year. And on that programme some $4.4 million will be spent. 1426

r L [ r l__ [ f .. r ' L Auqwst 6, 1979 Tape 567 EC - l MR. WOODSOW: TIU.s was, of· course - there is an old friend up in the galleries now, the fol:lller IIIU!ber who ran over in the feclaral ciiatric:t. I illll really daliqhted to see him up thara. This llu, of course, been a feclaral, p:avinc:ial and. lllUILic:ipal proqr~ and. it is certainly dlanqinq the wb.ol.e face of the Curlinq a:ea. And. at the present tima, also, there is an apartlllmlt bui.ld.inq l:leinq put up tllere for slll:lsidizad hoU&Ulq and. thl.8 really is goinq to help people over there who need ap&rtmm1ts and. the like.

Mr. speuer, I illll also happy to nota in int:aduc:ad a p:aqraa. to h.e.lp first time home l:luilclars. And. I know i.t lla.s p:al:lably been di.:ffi.c:ult - i.t h&s been dit:fic:ul.t :for •• ewn, to put the riqht

interpretation an this, :but I hope that if there u. any p:al::llems to be cleared. up they will. be cleared. up u qui.c:kl.y as possible. p:aject sponsored by the Department of Social Servi.cas, aqain i.s going to gi.va employmant and. i.s also goinq to ·-an that IIICJUIY will. !lave to be put aside fer this as wall in the Bud.qet. Mr. Speaker, also there are saa. p:al:llems over th.era with what we call. tha RRAl' p:aqr~.

I undaratand. that. this p:aqra- h.as bean appxowd. for all. over the Pxovinca, but apparently, the feclaral gova:mmant h.ave not co• up with the necessary fund.inq to let people go ahead and get their h.omes - in fact, there are saa. repairs bacily needed. to be done on h.Cmes net only in the Bay of Islands but thrcuqhout the whole P:avinca as well. Mr. Speaker, in' the field of recreation a lot has been done as well.

I would like to speak about - I h.ave lllelltioned this before - the p:avinc:i.al parks in the Bay of Islancls diatrict, for exaJIIPle, Blow Me Down Park at Lark Har.bour, which. c:an compare with any park, in fact, it is p:al:lably far beyond any other park in the Pxovinca of Newfoundland. and. Labrador - and also i.n Cox's Cove. '1'ha Staq Lillc.e Park ia in lll'f ciiatrict and. that is also a very beautiful park, in fac:t, I h.ava been out in it durinq the Summer. Work, I uncierstanci, i.s st:i.ll goi.nq on in this park and I suppose it should. be officially opened either later on 1427

L l L [ r~ \ L. j 1_, f~ I L r L r~ 1 L ' L r' L .. . '-• Auqusc 6, 1979 T~ 567 EC - 2 MR. WOODKlW • thi.s year or eu~y next year. Mr. Spealtar, the nen thinq I l1a.ve to at tb.e pnsent tima loc;lks after all thA North Shore of tha Bay of !slanda • At tb.a present tillla :han is no ic::a plant ill it and it can on.l.y be l:t.ilizad not IIIQre than a. IIIQilt.h. or six weelul durinq a. year. So I aa b.opinq that we an in ~ wa.y o-v.r tha nan fi,.. or six years raise $l20.000 to pay fa: tha plant anci inte:aat on it u wall. t would also like to say, Mr. Speaker, tb.at and it is ,..zy difficult these days because we all la& tha ile&t 1428

r i I I l .. r~ ! ~-·· I I I l ·- ! L (~ I I '- -· [ [ r L [ , .. I ; -· Auc;ust 6,1979 Tape No. 568 AH-l !!R. WOODROW: but sometimes it is inclined to get inside of us and perhaps dampen our spirits. But I do hope that this spirit of co-operation will continue because after all we are here 1 in fact,to l'll'f ;:ti.nd.::oot to hinder but to try to help the people in our Province. And I suppose it vould be safe to say that it is about ~:in. for us to bury the past and try to look 1 in fact~ to the future and hope that good things can happen to our Province in the future. Mr.

Speaker, I al5o received an overwhel.llling vote of confidence from the people of Bay of Islands and I feel that I vill never be able to thank them enough for the confidence they have placed in me. I can only pledge that I sh&l.l do l'll'f best becau.e after all that is all any man or woman can do. Mr. Speaker, we are also having problems with community councils. For example,in the rural district council of Halfway Point, Benoit's Cove, John's Beach, Fren~~·s Cove, the whole council resigned about a month aqo.

The council in Cox's Cove, all of them but a couple,resigned and this Mans t.\'lat the work that they should be doing cannot be done now because they have no councillors. Th&t is the reason why, Mr. Speaker, I brought up in the committee-when we had the Municipal Affairs committee, I thought that we should give some consideration to paying councillors. I do not know how it could be done but I think if "ft! want '::.0 continue the work that is being done I think that people;in one way or another,have to be given some small contribution for the work that they are doing. ! will finally end up, Mr.

Speaker, by talking about the abonion issue. I must congratulate my colleague from Harbour Main-e~ll Island (Mr. Doyle) for bringing this matter up in ~~e Rouse. As far as I am concerned, ~r. Speaker, ! stand and ! do not have to apologize to any man or any ·.,ol!lan on this 1429

I L. [ r l__ r I__ [ r L..~ ,- 1 .. I . . l_ ( ' . Auqust 6,1979 Tape No. 568 AH-2 MR. WOODROW: matter, I feel that life be<;ins at conCeption. You can. interpret it whatever way you like. And you, Mr. Speaker, would not allow your born child eo be killed. In fact, you wauld be furious, over it. And I would say that an unborn ci:Uld is also livinc; and is as just as much alive as we are hera today. What is goinc; tc happen nezt if this continues?

If this slauqhter house continues,the ~~t thine; we will have euthanasia a:od we will be, in fact.,probably gettinq·. acwn to what was done in Nazi Ge.tma~~.y and other countries over in Europe and the like. So I feel that it is about time that this matter was brouqht to the floor of this House of Asseml:lly. I think it "'ill be brouc;ht hera also by other members,and the qeneral public are gettinq,certainly~ more ccnacious of this ll'.atter as well. Mr. Speaker, I suppose I could go on and on but I would like to thanlc all the hon. members for listening and ! also .,ant to wish them well.

I mentioned in the bec;inninq the new members but the former members who ar~ here,as well,are back here because they wotxed for their districts. 1430

L.- r I ,_ r- 1 L r­ ! I '·- I - I ' ' I - i L_ ' - I L~ Auqust 6, 1979 Tapa 569 ?!t - l Mr. Woodrow: But ! hope that we can all continue to work, not primarily for our district because ! do not think that is the right idea, ! hope we can all continue to wor.!(. primarily for the good of this Province, and then for the good of our districts, bearing in mind that dollars can only go so far. And if we keep that in mind,I do not think we will ever have an unhappy moment in the House of Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, h.ea:r ! MR.. SPEAKER (SIMMS) : The hon. member for Terra Nova.

SOME HON. ~: Hear, hear! MR.. LUSH: Mr. speaker, what this Budget clearly does is that it indicates that this is not a new government, bu~ merely a continuation of the same old, tired and weary government that we have been watching for the past seven or eight years. This Budget still, like all other Budgets, leaves the people of ~~s Province disappointed, discouraged. What this Budget does, Mr.

Speaker, clearly is two things: one, it indicates that this is the same old, tired administration that we have been subjected to for the past sev~~ or eight years; and secondly, it tells us what is wrong with government and politics in this Province. and ! hope to illustrate that by referring to some of the statements made in the Throne Speech. But this Budget, Mr.

Speaker, also becomes a little bit difficult to talk about because again ~~is government has the ability to talk in futuristic te:rms, and if we knew when the future was coming, when they were going to p~duce on all of ~~s:well then~we could be happy, the people of this Province could be happy. But we never know when the future is going to commence, five years, and then another five years. Just as an example, in 1978 we get the Budget, the big blueprint for development, promising to the people of this Province 40,000 jobs. A year later that is scuttled and we get another 40,000 jobs.

So it becomes very difficult to believe 1431

r-- L- r L. r~ I [_. r ' . L ,-- ! r • August 6, 1979 Tape 569 PK - 2 Mr. Lush: what this government is saying. But again: if we could believe what they are saying then the plans are good. But I have suggested that the Budget does two things, one to show that this is just a continuation of the same old, tired administration that ·~ have had for the past seven or eight yearsJ and secondly, it clearly demonstrates what is wrong with government in this Province, '"hat is wrong with politics in this Province.

The government in its Throne Speectl tried to identify why it was that this Province ·~~as not developing to t!le extent that we all know that this P:rovince can develop, why it is not developed to its maximum pot11ntial, why we have not put this ?rovince on a sound economic base. And there are three or four reasons . ..,hy this was deemed to be so in the Throne Speech.

One ·~s because of ~~e behaviour of politicians that has been a tradition with _ ~~ ~And the Premier identified the Amulree Report which told of the kind of political situation that was in existence in that particular day, but it just identified individual politicians. It was more or less talking about the decorum of the House and then made reference to the political system, the democratic system as we know it today, how it is that people get elected.

So the Throne Speech offered cures for these two ills; · one, of course, was through the new rules and regulations for the BOuse of AsseD!bly, and then the Elections Act which we are about to see. So that is supposed, hopefully, to cura the economic ills of this Province. But I want to tell this hen. House now that none of the rulas and regulations that we have brough~ in is going to put this Province on a soWld economic base. It is certainly going to make the House, I think, a better place in which to operate, but it is not going to put this Province on a soWld economic base. Neither will ~he Elections act.

It will clean up some of the skulduggery that probably goes on with respect to 1.432

l __ _ I •• , .. ' . ·- ~ugust 6, 1979 Tape No. 570 GH-1 ~. LUSH: elections, but will do nothing to develop this Province. I think the E'remier •,o~as on to something though when he was talking about the political problems in this Province .becaus!' I want to say here .uui ngv that the problems with this Province and the ?roblems that we have been facing for a number of years are ?Qlitical problems and not economic problems, but the ?remier did not go far enough. It is not sufficient just to change ~~ rules of this aouse.

It is not sufficient just to bring in an Elections Act. •tn~at we have to do, and it was mentioned in the first, in the first Throne Speech delivered by this particular government, and I think this is what is at the root of the problems which face this !?:evince, this is why we have not developed the way we should, and this Throne Speech indicated that this government pledges itself to a philosophy of inter-~egional equity. That, Mr.

Speaker, in conjunction with the other items mentioned .by the,or enunciated in the Throne Speech, the necessity for individual responsibility on the part of all politicians, certainly a necessity for an Election Act, but then the government must produce. These rules and regulations will do nothing, but the government must develop a policy, a policy based on inter-regional equity. That is one problem. The second problem, Mr. Speaker, is the •,;ay we get ourselves elected.

I am not talking in terms of finances that we get from anybody, .but the responsible way in which we go co the people, the kinds of goodies we hand out to ~~e people, the kinds of promises that we make to the people, and, Mr. Speaker, it has .been a tradition of our Newfoundland history to hold promises to our people, to say that tomorrow is going to be the day when we are going to develop; tomorrow is the day when we are going to get around the corner; tomorrow is the day when we are going to arrive at the new Jerusalem, and this particular government is no different from other governments.

Indeed, it carried on the specialty of its predecessors in taking the people of this ProVince to the mountain during the elections, taking them to the ~untain and showing them all of the prosperity, depended on certain things. 14aa

\__ r l I r~ I ' ' \_. I •. L r. 1. .. , . l . . I . 1 l - I • { i\uqust 6, 1979 Tape No. 570 GB-2 MR. LOSB: In 1972 it was to develop our natural resources and that went on and went on and this particular time around, with this new administzation, again in the elec~on they took us to the mountAin, they took us to the mountain and the carrot that was held out, Mr.

Speaker, was 'Ele~ a P.C. government so that we can go along with the federal P.C. government and then •..-e will see this Province develop, ~~en we will see this Province develop', so,~- Speaker, that is the salvation held out, 'Step forward - the new era. step forward into the new era'. Well, Mr. Speaker, this budget is not much in keeping 'N"it."'1. the'step forward; this go•nowhere, this do-nothing, this abeyancy budget. But, Mr.

Speaker, aqaL~ I suppose it is not fair because this is just, as I said .before, an abeyancy budget, await 'N"hile we are getting the plans into operation, while we are working out with our ?.C. federal counterparts, while we are working the plans to ~evelop this Province. Mr.

Speaker, I want to suggest again - this might not be an error, we •rill wait and see -but I have said what is wrong 'N"ith politics in this Province is the way politicians get themselves elected, holding out this promise, and ~~s is the big promise now held out and the people of this Province are looking to Ottawa, they are looking to the federal government, they are looking, and I can assure hon. meml:lers on the other side if they do not produce that they have done a grave injustice to the political system in this Province. They have done a grave injustice to it, because our people are looking forward.

They are looking forward to the step forward movement. They are looking forward to the new era, but when is it going to be? In the Throne Speech we talk about a five-year plan, a five-year plan, strategies and a five-year development. The activity t.-.,at undergirds all of this five-year plan is going to be the creation of 40,000 jobs, 40,000 jobs over the next five years. Well, Mr. Speaker, when will the five years begin? When will they begin? 1434

r- ···- ~r i \ __ r I L r \. I L. (-. L r~ I I : f • l '- I ) (~ L .J Auqust 6, 1979, Tape 571, Page l -- apb MR. LUSH: When will they begin? It is going to be near the end of the year before the plan is submitted to the federal government, so that is a year gone. Are we now talking about six yea.rs? So, Mr. Speaker, this again illustrates that this is still the same old, tired, weary government, the same old, tired, weary govermnent making promises to our people.

And I would suggest that I have identified some of the things that are wrong with politics in this Province today, the gromises, the hopes that are held out to our people and then comes the Throne Speech and what has happened? - the government have fallen flat on their faces, nothing for the people to look forward to. Mr. Speaker, that is the kind of a th~g that is going to ·~ our political system, not the rules and regulations in this House, not the Elections Act, but the kind of hope all.d the kind of promises that are held out to the people of this Province and then to let them down. Mr.

Speaker, that is what has happened and this budget is certainly not much in keeping, as I have said, with the ' step forward~ , it is a go- nowhere, do-nothing budget. So, Mr. Speaker, probably my words are words of advice, because it is the first Throne Speech. But as I have said before, ~e people of this Province will be locking forward to this cosy deal with Ottawa to see if we are going to solve the unemployment problems in this Province. Because this is what government is all about.

All of these strategies and all of these plans in the Throne Speech will be nought, futile, if we do net do something with the unemployment problem in this Province. so the people of this Province will be locking towards Ottawa to see if things will change and we will be keepir.g the government accountable fer the promises that they have :nade, for the commitments that they have tDade to the people of this Province. Mr. Speaker, I suppose it is only fair that we have to accept this abeyancy budget, just to wait and see while the government are getting their plans toget..'ler. But, as I have 14as

r r- r . ~· - l ' l r •. I . - r~ ; . '-- ; ·- ( · L , .. August 6, 1979, Tape 571, Page 2 -- apb MR. LUSH: said !Jefora, we can only look at what is here and it is certainly proof positive that this is the same old, tired, weary government, not 111uch like a government that proposes to be innovativa, creativa and to qet this Province movin.g again. And. it demonstrates, as I have said before, what is wrong with politics in this Provine.. Mr.

Speaker, in addition to the problems that the Premier indicated and identified in the Throne Speech, the problems of trying to make the !louse a better place in '4'hich to operate and to make elections cleaner, more efficient and more effective, I would hope that they would carry on this policy that was articulated so wall by the government in 1972, Mr. Speaker, the pledge by the government to operate on the philosophy of inter-regional equity.

Again, what has happ _ened in this Province when the people have heard the campaign promises of this particular government and the Throne Speeches and then .. got the stark reality through the Budget - found cut that these people were not recognized. U-we. are goinq to de.velcp thi:v 1436

,- .... Auqust 6, 1979 Tape No. 572 so - l ~. T. LOSli: If we are going to develop this Province, '· . we are going to have to spend. the public do~~ars wisely, spend them based on the pll.ilDSQphy of inter-reqional equity. Mr.

Speaker, if I • the govert~~~~ent would folJ.Qw that policy in addition to its plan, ,. ' i spendillq the public dollars of this ?rovince on a ba&is of \!. ... inter-reqional eqW..ty, spend.inq the dollars wise~y, spel:ldinq them equal~y 1 proviciinq service& 1 public services , water and. sewer and triUISpQrtation based on iU1 aqua~ bAsis, based on an equity ~is, then I think this government is on the right foot. Mr. Speaker , sad to say there is nothinq in this 3udqet Wlich indicates a.ny cbanqe of direction • .. .

Thare is nothillq in this Budget which indicates a.ny cha.nqe in ._ _ direction d.onq tb-• lin••· There is no q,.stion about / it, the Premier identified the problem in politics in Newfoul:ldla.nci l - today as the political excessiveness tbat we find in ! •• po~itics in Newfound~and. but he did not identify the one that the government can best look after and that is in the dev~opment of this Province and in t.'le expenr:ii ture of public dollars.

If tile goveri!IIIent are willinq to address themselves to that prob~em of spellliinq the dollars of !:his Province on an inter-reqior1U equitY' basis. then I think we vill be able CQ say that certai~y t.'lis government has changed course, that this government is onto a new policy, that this gover:ment is onto a new way of developing t.'lis Province. The people of this Province wi~l be looking forward to t:ba.t. The day has gone when we can keep up t.'lis old traditional wa7 of spending ll!Oney based on a ;?Olitical basis. I am he ping, a..s I said before, that this is going to change • . ·, Now, •u:.

Speaker, looking at this Bl.ldget and in comparing it ""ith. the previous administration. and this we have to do, this we have to do, we can net all of a sudden just take this Sl.ldget in l.Solation and say, from here this is a new day. w• nave to compare it '"'it.'l what this government has done over l:he ;?ast six or seven years 1 we ·,..ould have to take t.'la t as a 1437

.. r ,.. ...... , I , .... L (' \_ i t .. ( .. I L ,. : .Wqust 6, l979 Tape No. 572 Sl:l - 2 MR. T. LtlSH: point of reference. Sut we are willinq to wait, in the meantime, we are wlllinq to wait to see if this qovermant will ~rociuce some of tba ~lan:;; that it submitted. to 11s, to see if this cosy arrangement with Ottawa ia :e&lly 90inq to l:le ou.r salvation, to see if it is really qoinq to :be the new Jerusalem.

That is what we are qoinq to be waitinq for, Hr • .:ipeaker, and a.ll of the ?eople in this Province are eaqarly a.M enthusiastically a.waitinq this 01ew Jerusalem, a.wa.itinq for the cievelopment of this Province that is qoinq to taJca place. M&yn. it is going to start a.t the next !:lud.qet, we cia not knoW_, but we are wa.itinq for i-::. to start il1ld as I have aa.icl. before, naver in ou.r history, never in ot.:r history will there :Ce such focus by the people of this l?rovince on ottawa as tbaz'e is todAy m4 u thare u goi.nq tc l:le in tha next two or three years. We have 1438

/ ' i r' I I l l. - ~ ' I I 1 •. r I l ' \. - .· \. . ' . \ : ' Au~t G, l979 Tape 573 E:C - l MR. LI,JSH: placed. a. tremenclaus respoD.Sil)ility- 1 tbAt this vil.l btl tb.e sa.l.vation, we !lope th&t this will be tb.e a.v oleJ:Uaalea. But, Mr. Speaker, lookinq at tha pedormuu:e of this 90vermD!IIlt ovw.r t!ua put six or seven yean and._ lookinq at this Budqat, tb.e future claes not lock griqht. Just lock at unemployment, Mr. Spealcar, fact that - liNIIt am.tinual.Ly hava t1w hiqheat rate of lJDempl.ayment in Canada. And. aa lonq as I am a III8IIICer in this han.

House, I iiiD. goinq tQ ge talkinq certainly IINSt btl the major role of any go:varnmant, and tb.at is tQ .:nata employment, tQ c:reata jaba far ow: people. It muat be the ~~~a.jor role and it IIIWit bec:o- a part, !lr. Speaker, of the public c:onsc:ience. lie cannot allaw our peoJjll.e to acc:ept the fact that we IIIWit ila.ve tb.e hiqhest laval of unamployment in this Province. 'l'ha h.iq.i:l, laval of unemployment in this Province liNIIt be attacked, it DWSt be salved. Anci, Mr. Speaker, lockinq at th.e record, l977 was th.a year that unemployment in this Province really beqan to skyrocket.

In l97G they il&d an una~~~ployment rata of so-where in the vicinity of ll per cent. Today it is l4.J per cant. So in th.rae years .,.. have =- from ll per cent up to l4.3 per cent. Riqh.t up to this point in tiD1 - I am. not talkinq about the yearly averaqe, .:omparinq apples with. appl.ea- and in the past th.rae years, l977, l978 and l979, there h.as bean vary little c:hanqe in the unemployment ra.te. As a matter of fact, I think last year the unemployment rate was l5.S per .:ent and today it is l4.3 per cant, a c:hanqe of eiqht-tenth.s of a per cent. Now, Mr. Spealcar, th.at is not goad enouo;b..

I.f we are goinq 1:0 lower the unemployment ra.te gy one per cent a year, well, it is goinq to take us qui.ta a while to arrive at a decent leval of employment. And, Mr. Speaker, the o'ther point that must be pointed out is that our labour force grew in 1977 and l978 by . 1439

! . Augus~ 6, 1979 Tape No. 574 GH-l MR. LUSH: 9,000. The year before that it grew by 4,000, and the year after that it grew by 6,000 - 20,000 in ~ee years, 20,000, so this means that our labour force is growing at the rate of almost 7,000 a year. Now, Mr.

Speaker, ~~e government is going to lick that unemployment .?roblem by the creation of 4o,·ooo jobs, 40,000 jobs, which means that if our labour force continues to grow by 7,000 in five years time that we are going to have 35,000 people, 35,000 new people over the five-year period, which means that we will have 5, 000 ;?lUS, and keeping that unto our 32,000 who are now unemployed we are still going to have 27,000 people unemployed which is still going to make our unemployment rate just about where it is now, just I about where it is now. So, Mr.

Speaker, that does not seem like a l very optimistic figure, it does not seem like a very optimistic objective '( ' to create 40,000 new jobs, but, Mr. Speaker, that is the record wi~~ 1 ' ·· respect to unemployment or with respect to creating jobs for our people. That is the record of this particular government.

Now, I ~- Speaker, one could ~arry on ealking about the dreadful state of L- unemployment in this Province, the disgracefully high level of unemploy- ment in ~~is Province, and we must, we cannot for one moment let that get off our minds and the tragedy that goes wi~~ people being unemployed, the misery and the anxiety that has been experienced by our people '-· throughou"t: the Province '"'ho cannot find a job. They 'Hant a job, ~- Speaker, but they cannot find one, they cannot find one.

Then on top of that is the plight of our young people, people coming out of trades schools, people coming out of vocational schools, people ,· coming out of university with training invested in their future, s;;>ent a lot of money and cannot find a job. That, Mr. Speaker, has to be the crucial issue facing this government today and any government, and this 3udget here does not indicate, Mr. Speaker, much of a break. This 3udget here does not give much optimism to our unemployed people. rt does not give much optimism to our young people. 1440

t .. ' .. ' ~,.-. ·- {· ... • I \ _) ~ . i \ t \ i I 1.-. { . \ . I • ., . . ' ._, ;.uqust 6, 1979 Tape No. 574 GH-2 MR. LUSH: ~. Spea.lter. what we have done in this Budget in attempting to maintain the status quo of staying where •..re are is ~~at ~~e government again has unwittingly r~ised the cost of living. The government has unwittingly raised the cost of living to the people of this Province by the imposition of a media tax. Now, 1~.

Speaker, that is the best that this government could COII\8 up with, in ':erms of raising a few dollars for the Province, a few paltry dollars. $750,000 was the imposition of a media tax and that I suqgest, Mr.

Speaker, is another collllllit:nent by this government that is broken, .because it was the commitment by this government that they would freeze any increases in the Retail Sales Tax anci I say this is a roundabout way of increasing the taxes to the people of this Province because invariably the increase or ~~e imposition of this media tax, the burden of this is going to fall on the consumers of this Province. ~.

Speaker, I say_ that is =eally scraping the bottom of the barrel, that is really scraping the bottom of the barrel when we have to dig up this kind of a tax, this :nedia tax, to punish the business people of this Province for the jobs that they are creating, only the second province in Canada to administer this kind of tax, anci with that to double that: of. ehe other province. I think Que.bec 1 s media sales tax is 2 per cent and ours being 4, and, Mr.

Spea.lter, whacking it to the consumers of this Province again, trying to put up the cost of living again to people already paying the highest taxes in Canada 144:1.

r' i {""' I \ i. ~ I ( " . ) \ • ' \ .r..ugust: 6,1979 Tape No. 575 '-Ji-1 :-IR. LUSH: and with the highest: level of unemployment. Now, Hr. Speaker, that is '"'hat we have done, taken them to the mountain. We took them up to t:'le mcuntain during che election and with the Throne Speech and now we have let them slide down again in to despair. l'!r. Speaker, that is what is wronq with politics in this Province, raising the aspirations of our people, raising the expectations of our people. Always with the Budget comes the stark reality of it.

And these hon. members opposite, che hen. crowd opposite are not about to take our people anyvhere if they can use be record of the past six or seven years. Mr. Speaker, we await, we await the new Jerusalem, we await t!1e new tuture and the bright future that is around the corner, we await this cozy deal, '"e await the development of this Province from the new Federal government, f:om the PC government. We are •,o~ait:ing for this eagerly and enthusiastically. And, Mr. Speaker, if it does not come, if it does not come it will be an unforgiveable sin by members opposite on ~~e people of this ?rovince. But, Mr.

Speaker, we on this side hope that it will come.

We have given our i ndication over here of our co-operativeness to the government hoping for a change in policy, hoping for a change in di:ection, hoping for t.~e develoPment of this Province, the develop1!1ent of t.'J.is Province on an inter-regional e<iuity basis, the spending of the public dollars of this Province on an equitable oasis so that the people of chis Province, all of the people of this Province can ge~ the kinds of public services that they deserve and can get the kind of apportuni ties that are extended to all people throughout Canada and to every region in this Province. So, Mr.

Speaker, we will be looking for ... ard, we will be awaiting these dev.elop1!1ents and I a111 sure that all the people of Newfoundland are awaiting these developments in the hope that they come in the near future, that we do not have ~o wait too long, that we do not get another five-year plan loaded on ~op of ~~is one, t.~at we do not get next year another policy, ano~'J.er programme promising 1442

I \ ('· . I < •' C' I \~ r· I L. r-- . I I \ - [. ,. .. \ . I ... _ ( . I t ... ·....- Au<;ust 6,1979 Tape No. 575 AH-2 !'!R. LUSH: to create 40,000 jobs. We hope that they will eome and we hope that next year the gove:mment will be ~le to eome into this hon. House and tell us what rate, what proportion of the 40,000 jobs have been created up to this point in time whethe~ it is eiqht thousand, ten t.'l.ousand and whether next year we are goinq to be able to get the sixteen thousand. If they can do this then, of course, we will see that there is SOllie activity. But, Mr.

Speaker, that remains to be seen but aqaili we give the gove:rnment the benefit of the doubt and hope that these thinqs will come to pass. Thank you. SOME HON. liEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAICER(Simmsl The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: 'nlank ycu, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. ME.'m'ERS : Hear, hear! MR. DINN: Mr.

Speaker, first of all this being the first time that I have had an opportunity to say a few Wl:lrds in debate,may I first of all congratulate you on your election to your high office and also ~~ Deputy ~peaker and the Chaixman of Committees, the hon. mem!:er for Conception Bay Sout.'l. (~.r.Buttl and the Deputy Chairman of Committees ti''le Z'lcn. CUiber for Humber West (Mr.Baira) on his election and also may I welcome all the new members to the House of Assembly and hope as the h.on. member for St.

Bame (Mr.B ·er.nett) said, that we are all here to lea= and maybe to impart some ltnettledqe on hon. members in the House. Now, <!r. Speaker, I sat here for the past few days and I have listened to non. members opposite and hon. members on this side of the House and it is indeed ref=eshing to hear some of the newer members impart some of their ideas into the Rouse of Assembly. And also, I think, we have had two ltinds of spee'd1es in t.':!e !!ciuse, one by the members for thei.r distric--..s speaking aJ)out basically their district problems and other members who are possibly 1443

r ( ~ . -( - I l i \ -' j ... r- 1 i I c ,~ \ '\ I I ~ . t '·- I I ' -... .'l.ugust 6,1979 Tape No. 575 AH-3 ~R. DINN: chief spokesman for ~~e Opposition or ministers on this side of the House Budget as a whole. 1444

.,. __ ( .,.~-. i ' ( '-' i I ' ' i ' - ,.~ ·, I .. .; Auqust o , 1979 Tape 576 EC- l .llR. CINN: In listening- to non. members oppoa:i.u, I IIIUSt say r SOlllll non.

IIIUibe.rs - the non. the IIIIUibar for Grand Bank (Mr. 'l:ha-1 the other d.i.y spolta c;lcw:in.qly about llia qre&t llistoric d:Utric:t of Grand Bank and. t&lluld about fish u the future for this Province, and I aa c:lellqhtad to see that he a~ with our Mi.nister of Fisheries (Mr. w. carter) and with JIIQst of the th:in.c;s th&t we are &ttampt:in.q to do in thia Province with. respect to develo~nt, with raspac:t to davelop:in.q the resources of this Province. a. talked <Klou.t The han. the ~r for Tomqat Mcluntains (Mr.

Warnnl talked about !lis district and the c:once.=s of the people of .r..Dradar, and so on dawn throu.qb. thll bit and piece • In Usteninq to wtl&t I would call. tha c:tU.•f spoke111111m for the Oppoa.it.ion, it was ve%Y difficult to qet a qeneral en-, to qat 0110re or lesa a caucus stratac;y. It seemed to money, other members c;ettinq up sayinq that we did not spend. enouqh money and other IIIUibers c;attinq up sayinq, to quou the han. the IIIUii:ler for Terra Nova (Mr. Lushl 'a qo-aowhera, c:lo-noth.inq type of Bucil;at'. The non. the IIISIIIber for Burqeo - Bay d'Espoir (Mr. Si.mmons) got llp,. Mr.

Speaker, and b.a talked abou.t., we are not s:pend.inq any ' 0110nay in rura..l c:leftlOpD*lt, in devalopinq our resources and that b.e did not see any inc:reues and did not think we were puttinq emphasis on our resources • And, Mr. Speaker, he started off by talki.nc; <'lbout the picture on the front, and, Mr. Speaker, to i.Jicl.i.cate just exactly what the han. :llaiiiQer did with respect to :reaciinq the Budqet, b.e did not re<Ui the first paqe wllic:h said t4a.t indaed, the picture on the cover of the au.dqet is a sunrise, the dawn of a new era. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, b.ear! MR.

DINN: And tb.at :Cas.i.c:ally, Mr. Speaker, is what we are ta.lki.nq <Klout here in tb.e new Budc;et. We are not going to take Sl billion, ~400 million or SJOO million and go to resources !::>e<:G.use we do have other concerns in tb.is Province, we nave our social services tb.ae . 1445 ...

.--, r·. I . L ' .,, r-·, ) I < - .,-. I i \ . , __ . , ,---. I ' ~-. [: ,. I • , ....... Auqus1: 6, l979 Tape 576 EC- 2 MR. OINN: - have to provide, the servi.ces that the people of this Province need; we have to prov:i.de the water and sewer systems and the schools and we nave to keep teacn.rs teac:ning and ed~t.inq o~ ycunq so tilat the future of Newfoundland is usured. But, Mr. Speaker, just to addnss myself to the hon. the :118111ber fer Bu=qao - Bay d' Espoir (Mr.

Simal:ms) wb.en na tal.kaci about no IIICI18Y in Rllso~caa, I lock a1: all the Heads of :escurc:es in the Bud.qat and find that not oa.ly did the hen. IIIUiber !lOt open the cover of t.'1e book and read the first paqe i.ndic:atinq th.&t this u a new dawn, that the picture on the cover is a sunrise and not a sunset - AN liON. MEMBER: flaar, near! MR. OINN: every Head in the Budget with respect to resources has increased.- Mine• and Enarqy, last year ~35,517,000, this · year ~44,lSS,OOO, !lOt a huqh increase, but an increase. And, Mr.

Speakt~r, one would nave to be blind if ne could net take just paqe 26, which. indicates l:he expenditure sUIIIIIIa.J:Y and go down through that and indicate tilat new dollars and l!IDre dollars are gcinq into our resc~ces and these resources will expand over th.a years so tb.at - can support the social. serv:i.ces that we have to prov:i.de also to t!1e people of this Province. I! you lock at t.and.s and Forests - $2l,6l9,000 this 'fear, last year $l7 lllil..lion - a.D.d there is no increase. I say that is an increase. It is net a ;;sao million inc:raua, ·out it is an increase.

It is the kind of tiling that this E'rovince can afford. It is the kind of thing that this Province has to proceed alonq in that :nanner, so that it is net a huge junk, it is net jobs, jobs, jobs for the sake of just creating jobs, it is creating jobs, improving our resources so that this will develop a financial. base for the Province and we can afford the other services that we need to provide for the people of this Province. AN BON. MEMBER: Ri.qht. If we lock il1: Fisheries -this year ;>30,466,000 - M'R. POWER: Gross. MR. O:tNN: - gross, that is correct - liLSt year in Fisheries, $23 million.

That w·culd indicate to non. members opposite 1446

• ' r-. (. : -~ r-­ ' L [ ·[. ( ·, l c. ' I -, L I '_J Auqust 6, l979 Tape 576 EC - 3 !4ll. DINH: t!:at it is not an increase. But, Mr. Speaker, aa I said. when I s tartecl., t:bare did not , ... to t. a. ~ral ~. The hon. the mulber for Burqeo - Bay ci'Espoir (Mr. s1_.ns) got up Ulli ha spolce ~ut 'nothinq'. lla said tha.re wu no incz:aaae in Rasourcea. And. 1 t is there i.D. :blade. Ulli ~hi te , it i.s clear for aiiYbocly to read that there is an inc:reue in the dollars appli.ecl. to our resources - MR. POWER: B.iqht. MR. DINK: - so that, aa I said, they can provide a :broa~r f~cial :bue so that ..,. can afford the social services that - need. to provida for our people, the waur 1447

._ . . :·-. \ .' r- ·. \ i ,.- ·. l \ I \ ( ~ ) ... (~ ·I ·~ r-. \ L i { ·, i August 6, 1979 Tape No. 577 GH-1 MR. DINN: and sewer systems down on the Burin Peninsula and the Northern Peninsul.a and in Labrador. We may make some mistakes as we go along. The hon. memi::ler for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) or one of the other hon. members for Labrador - MR. WHITE: Eagle River. I'.R.

DINN: - Eagle River (Mr. iiiscock) , I believe it was Torngat Mountains, talked about the ·,o~ater syst=zn that they put in Malckovik and I woul.d have to admit and aqree with the hen. member when he said that that was a complete disgrace when you talk S3.5 million for a water system in Makkovik, and up to a year and a half ago that water system did nothing but destroy the water in the nursing station in Makkovik. I was up there and had a look at it firsthand and, Mr.

Speaker, something had to be done, and I believe what happened was that il.ural, Aqricul.tural and Northern Development in conjunction with some engineering people in Municipal Affairs and a:ousing got it '· back on the rail.

Getting it back on the !:ail is another thing that •,o~e are going _eo address ourselves to in this government in the next four or five years, that the rail will become an integral part of ~~e transportation system in this Province, that other items, not just the resources but •,o~hat the resources need in order to expand, will be looked after, and as the hon. the Premier said in one or ~"'0 of his speeches in this a:ouse of Assembly, you just cannot stand back and look and say, "Okay let us put our money in fisheries", because fisheries is not the only thinq.

It is the most important thing, in my opinion, but it is not the only thing that we have to develop in this Province. We have hydro potential on the Island that has to be developed, and we cannot wait for the Lower Churchill or for Muskrat Falls to come on. These things will be ongoing.

These studies will continue until we can get a handle on that, and as we •,o~ait and while :,o~e wait for these things to come about, we have to look at the things on Island that we need to do and the ainds Lake thing, the possibility of the Upper Salmon which may have to be approved this year or next year, out these things have to be ongoing, so that if industry decides that they want to move 1448

,.-, L . ( . \ l_. [ '·· [: ; " \ August 6, 1979 Tape ~o. 577 GB-2 !>!R. DINN: in here, they have the po~r to do it, aru:l they have the transportation network, and they have the facilities that I believe is aa responsibill ty of government to provide. Govermaent ~oes not qo out ~ just hire aru:l provide jobs for the sake of providinq jo.bs. I think that has been one of the mistakes in the past. The t1pper Churchill went ahead l:lecause of the jo.bs, jo.bs, jo.bs, and as a result we have no jo.bs now and ~ have a giveaway of our resources in this Province.

In my opinion, one of the grea~est disasters that has come about in this Province was the giveaway of that resource to the Province of Que.bec :or nothinq. ·. MR. BARlU':": (Inaudible) today, that is the past, put, past administration. MR. DINN: The past, past, past administration, right. I can qo !:lack to the past, past, past if the hen. member wants, and the hen. Leader of the Opposition, whilst I have a few minutes on my feet, I might impart a little bit of advice to him. I know he is out !:lack listening intently to every word that I a111. saying and I would just like to caution him.

I think he has a qrea.t qroup of individuals on the opposite side of the House right now , a qraat qrou:p of people that got el.ected in the last election. I sat !:lack and I listened for days and listened to the hen. meml:ler, for e:xa~~~ple, for Sona.vista North. (Mr. Stirling) who has had some positive things to say in this House of Assembly, and I think that kind of thinq should continue bec:ause I can assure the hen. !llelllber that we are listening to what he bas to say because we think it is important.

If the people think it is important enough to elect the hon. member to this House of Assem.bly, we think it is important enough to listen to him, and he should continue in that vein and I can assure • him that we will l