Alberta Hansard — 19 April 2005, Afternoon sitting (13:30) (Legislature 26, Session 1)

20050419

Alberta — Debates (Hansard)

April 19, 2005 Alberta Hansard 847 Legislative Assembly of Alberta Title: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:30 p.m. Date: 05/04/19 [The Speaker in the chair] head: Prayers The Speaker: Good afternoon. Let us pray. We confidently ask for strength and encouragement in our service to others. We ask for wisdom to guide us in making good laws and good decisions for the present and future of Alberta. Amen. Please be seated. head: Introduction of Visitors The Speaker: The hon. Minister of International and Intergovern- mental Relations. Mr. Stelmach: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I’m pleased to introduce to you and through you to members of this Assembly a 27-member delegation from the city of Grimma, Germany, led by Bürgermeister Berger, the mayor of Grimma. His Worship is accompanied by two aldermen; the consul general of Germany based in Vancouver, Mr. Michael Schwandt; and the honorary consul of Germany based right here in Edmonton, a man who n eeds very little in troduction to us here, Mr. Fritz Koenig. Also accompanying him are Mr. Joerg Diecke, alderman, head of the partnership committee. In the delegation are business leaders, academics, and municipal leaders.

The mayor and his delegation are visiting Leduc this week and earlier today signed a joint partnership declaration between Grimma and Leduc, marking the first official relationship in North America for Grimma. This relationship builds on the 2002 twinning agree- ment between Alberta and the province of Saxony, where Grimma is located, which has already led to initiatives in the fields of education, training, science, and technology. Our Speaker visited Grimma, toured the city, and met the mayor.

Grimma was in the spotlight during the floods of the summer of 2002, when the people of Alberta helped raise emergency disaster relief funds. These were matched by Alberta’s Wild Rose Foundation. Mr. Speaker, I would ask that our honoured guests please rise in your gallery and in other galleries to receive the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. head: Introduction of Guests The Speaker: The hon. Deputy Speaker. Mr. Marz: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It gives me a great deal of pleasure to introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly guests that are seated in your gallery: from Capital City Savings & Credit Union, Mr. Dennis Horrigan, vice-president, direct banking; Mr. Doug Forsyth, vice-president, community branches; Ms Gail Stepanik-Keber, vice-president, marketing; Mr. Tim Downey, president of Priority Printing Ltd.; from Access Media Group Dr. Ron Keast, president and CEO; Mr. Ross Mayot, vice- president, administration and business affairs; and Mr. Gordon Sheppard, producer, creative services.

Capital City Savings & Credit Union Ltd., Priority Printing, Access, and Canadian Learning Television are community sponsors of the School at the Legislature program. This program gives grade 6 teachers from all over our province an opportunity to relocate their classrooms to the Alberta Legislature for an entire week. In the fiscal year 2003-2004 over 714 students from 29 classes attended the School at the Legislature program. This program is supported by 29 teachers and 310 volunteers. We’re very grateful for the support we receive from our community partners.

I would ask that our guests now rise and receive the very warm welcome of this House. The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Human Resources and Employ- ment. Mr. Cardinal: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. On your behalf I would like to introduce to you and through you to the members of the Assembly two grade 10 students who are participating in the Westlock Rotary Club youth exchange program, which is sponsored, of course, by the Westlock Rotary Club. With us today are Paula Mustonen, who is visiting Alberta from Finland, and Dawnia Myshak, who will be travelling to Switzerland in July.

Accompany- ing them is an old friend of mine, actually, Mr. Les Dunford, a Rotarian who is also the editor of the Town and Country , which appears in several newspapers in your constituency, Mr. Speaker. I’d like them to rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Environment. Mr. Boutilier: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. As you know, in the city of Fort McMurray our city slogan is We Have the Energy. But it’s not just about oil energy; it’s also about youthful energy.

Today it’s my pleasure through you and to members of the Assembly to introduce students, teachers, and staff from Father Beauregard school. Of course, this is a Catholic school in Fort McMurray and quite appropriate on this day, when a new Pope was announced to the world. They’re seated in the members’ gallery. I’d like to welcome the 45 grade 6 students, vice-principal Micheal Chaisson, teacher Mrs. Williams, and teaching assistant Mrs. Arbter. I’d like to invite the parents, teachers, students, everyone to please rise and show this Assembly we truly do have the energy in Fort McMurray. The Speaker: The hon.

Member for Drayton Valley-Calmar. Rev. Abbott: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m pleased to introduce to you and through you to all members of the Assembly a constituent of mine from Brazeau c ounty. Cecil Andersen is a farmer and rancher, and his wife, Colleen, serves on the David Thompson health authority board. Cecil and I had lunch today, and we discussed the CAIS program, the interim Métis harvesting agreement, sour gas exploration, and other easy issues such as these. I’d ask my guests to rise and receive the warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre.

Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I’m very pleased to introduce to you and through you to all members of the Assembly members of Panties Productions, who are taking their original production of Burlesque to the Alberta Scene in Ottawa. Burlesque is the story of the Britis h comedienne Lydia Thompson and the introduction of the all-female extravaganza to America, which is particularly appropriate today, being the anniversary of the legislation giving women the vote in Alberta. They are sitting in the members’ gallery.

The writers and performers of Burlesque, by the way, were nominated for two Sterling awards this year as well as being the hit of last year’s Fringe, so I would ask Jocelyn Ahlf,

Alberta Hansard April 19, 2005848 Belinda Cornish, and Celina Stachow to please rise and the artistic team and crew, Jesse Gervais and Tomas Brabec, also to join them. If you would all please rise and receive the warm welcome of the Assembly. I have a second introduction for you today, Mr. Speaker, another very special guest, and that is Mark Meer. Mark is best known to Edmonton audiences as Susanna. Her show, Oh Susanna , has become an institution in Old Strathcona’s Varscona theatre.

Hosted by Mark as Susanna Patchouli, this Euro-chick variety show features interviews, municipal gossip, local musicians and actors, plays by children, grilled cheese sandwiches, and all kinds of fun. I would ask Mark to please rise and accept the warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-McClung. Mr. Elsalhy: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure today to introduce to you and through you two combined groups from another fine school in my constituency of Edmonton-McClung. This time it’s Ormsby elementary school. Today we have 51 visitors on their tour of the Legislature.

My grade 6 friends are accompanied by their teachers, Mrs. Linda Vanjoff and Mrs. Alana Eaton, teacher assistant Miss Megan Grainger, teacher assistant Miss Rushika Fernando, t eacher assistant Miss Carole Desranleau, and two parents, Mrs. Brenda Johansen and Mr. Barry Olsen. I would ask that they rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. 1:40 The Speaker: The hon. Minister of International and Intergovern- mental Relations. Mr. Stelmach: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don’t believe our guests are in the gallery as yet, but we will recognize them when they enter soon.

I wish to introduce to you and through you to members of this Assembly 15 members of the Red Hat Society. Their group leader is Ms Isabel Maltby. They’re the first

chapter of the Red Hat Society in Fort Saskatchewan, which is an international society promoting fun amongst all 50-plus aged female members. This international society is now present in 20 different countries and 49,000 different chapters. This local

chapter calls themselves the Crimson Chicks. If they are in the gallery, I’d ask them to rise, and if not, we will recognize them when they enter the gallery a little later. Thank you. The Speaker: Hon. members, because of the historic nature of today, I’m going to give my historic comment now. On April 19, 1916,

an act to provide for equal suffrage r eceived royal assent in Alberta. The bill gave women absolute equality with and the same rights and privileges as men. That was for the first time in Alberta. It was also for the first time in what was then known as the Com- monwealth. Women were allowed to vote in provincial elections and hold provincial office. Since June 17, 1917, when the first two women, Roberta MacA- dams and Louise McKinney, were elected as Members of this Legislative Assembly, 56 women have served as Members of the Legislative Assembly of Alberta, including the 13 currently sitting as members today.

The hon. Member for Whitecourt-Ste. Anne. Mr. VanderBurg: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m pleased to introduce to you and through you to Members of the Legislative Assembly two guests in the members’ gallery who are here in Edmonton for a trade show and workshop. They operate Hang-Ups, a photo and art framing business in Lethbridge and Carmangay. Would Nancy Allen and Sean McFarland, the son of the Member for Little Bow, please rise and receive the warm traditional welcome. head: Oral Question Period The Speaker: First Official Opposition main question. The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition.

Municipal Infrastructure Program Dr. Taft: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This provincial government has had a long history of fighting with the federal government over the notion of receiving money with strings attached, yet the same government then turns around and treats municipal governments in Alberta with the same Big Brother mentality. It is the height of Tory hypocrisy. My questions are to the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

Given that this government has announced that municipalities will have to vet spending plans for infrastructure funding through the Minister of Municipal Affairs, is it the intention of this government to micromanage infrastructure plans made by elected municipal governments? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Renner: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Quite the opposite.

At the announcements that were made on Thursday, with the minister of infrastructure and myself in attendance, we made it abundantly clear that the program is to be as flexible as it possibly can be, that the priorities are to be established by locally elected councils, but that we wanted to have an opportunity to ensure that the priorities of the program were directed towards basic infrastructure and that the basic infrastructure was taken care of before moving into issues such as recreational facilities.

We’re trying to ensure that someone doesn’t build a rec centre and then come back a year later and advise us that their sewer system needs upgrading. The Speaker: The hon. leader. Dr. Taft: Thanks, Mr. Speaker. Given that the infrastructure money provided for municipalities only addresses the infrastructure debt created by years of downloading provincial responsibilities onto our cities and towns, does this government have any plan to provide long-term, sustainable funding for Alberta’s municipalities? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Renner: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Three billion dollars is a lot of money in anyone’s books. Municipalities appreciate the fact that this is one-time funding, but we’ve also indicated that we hear their concerns with respect to long-term, sustainable funding. This is an opportunity for us to engage in that discussion and over the next five years, hopefully, come up with a resolution to long-term funding. In the meantime $600 million a year for five years is a very significant portion of that discussion that needs to take place. The Speaker: The hon. leader. Dr. Taft: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again to the same minister: does this government have any plans to increase the autonomy of

April 19, 2005 Alberta Hansard 849 *See p. 855, right col., para. 11. Alberta’s municipal governments, reflecting the fact that they are themselves democratically elected government bodies? Mr. Renner: Mr. Speaker, I indicated on Thursday, when I was asked the same question in Calgary, that I’m prepared to have that discussion. I’m not prepared to give the answer at this point, but I’m certainly prepared to enter into that discussion. I think it deserves some discussion. The Speaker: Second Official Opposition main question. The hon. Member for Edmonton-Manning. Social Assistance Rates Mr. Backs: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. The government gave $45 million to horse racing in the budget but not one extra dime to poor families needing social assistance. Poor families have seen inflation erode their meagre rate by almost 40 per cent since 1993, when this government cut the rates by 20 per cent. All religions call for assistance for the poor, and many cannot work. This government only grudgingly respects that. My question is to the Minister of Human Resources and Employment.

With surpluses mounting, can this government pause to think of those in need and give an increase to those on social assistance like they gave to the ponies?* Mr. Cardinal: Well, Mr. Speaker, that’s a reasonable question. Of course, I’m reviewing that whole situation of the 11,000 caseload we have where people are not expected to work. We are reviewing the caseload for the core benefits and also the shelter benefits. Since 1993, of course, there have been a lot of positive changes in relation to the welfare reforms.

In fact, people have received health care benefits since then, and we normally provided for other needs such as daycare, work clothes, children’s school expenses, utility hookups. But going back to 1993 – and the member mentioned 1993 specifically, Mr. Speaker – that’s when this government announced the welfare reforms. That’s when we had a caseload of 97,000, and 80 per cent of the people using the welfare system were single people and couples without children.

Our strategy was to move these people back into the workforce, and the money saved would be spent in the high-needs areas, including children’s services and persons with developmental disabilities. Both of those have ministries now. Mr. Backs: Time for an increase. A question to the same minister: will this government encourage the needy to work by increasing the welfare personal income exemption from $115 a month? Mr. Cardinal: Of course, Mr. Speaker, we are always continuing to monitor the situation very closely.

Any adjustments we can make to assist those people that cannot work of course our government will make. But anyone that’s able to work and is on assistance will always also be given support to find jobs and stay on the jobs. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Backs: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A further question to the same minister: can this government tie our social assistance payments to something like its own market-basket measure instead of having our needy wait year on year, cap in hand, hoping for a pittance? Mr. Cardinal: Mr.

Speaker, of course, we always continue to review the benefits, especially for those people in the high-needs areas, the 11,000 cases that are not expected to work. We review them very closely, and no doubt within the next three or four months we will be looking at some changes. The Speaker: Third Official Opposition main question. The hon. Member for Calgary-Mountain View. 1:50 Oil Well Drilling on Crown Land Dr. Swann: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Recent resource development on public land near Sawn Lake, Alberta, without proper approvals confirms what many Albertans already know, that the oil and gas industry calls the shots on resource extraction in Alberta. Neither the Minister of Environment nor the Minister of Energy, charged with regulating this industry, has indicated that anything unusual has occurred. Therefore, my first question is to the Premier. Do oil and gas companies require any prior government approval before trees are cleared, water reservoirs affected, and ecosystems irrevocably altered? Mr. Klein: Mr. Speaker, the answer is yes.

Certainly, they just can’t go in holus-bolus and start to raze the forests and drill. There are lots of regulatory processes to go through. Turning to another issue, the

preamble by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Manning, the $45 million to . . . [interjections] Dr. Swann: Supplementary to the Premier: given that illegal oil and gas development is occurring presently near Sawn Lake in violation of the public trust, will the Premier please explain to Albertans why this is allowed to happen? Mr. Klein: Mr. Speaker, the situation, as I understand it, is under review. It’s being investigated. I’ll have the hon. Minister of Environment respond. Mr.

Boutilier: I would offer to the hon. member that if he is aware of any illegal activity that is in violation of Alberta law, Alberta regulation, I’d ask him and encourage him to please provide me with that. We will take swift action, immediate action, continuing to protect the environment that Albertans truly do value here in this province. Dr. Swann: I’ll be tabling more pictures today, Mr. Speaker, on that case. Again to the Premier: will the Premier take steps to restore public confidence in our regulatory bodies by stopping development and fining the offending companies? Mr. Klein: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I don’t know the situation well enough to stop the project, but I will assure the hon. member that all rules and regulations must be met relative to drilling activities and the removal of trees. Of course, the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development is working on a framework agreement relative to the development of traditional hunting grounds. Perhaps she would wish to respond. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Highlands- Norwood, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Nose Hill. Long-term Care Facilities Mr. Mason: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Serious problems faced by vulnerable elderly and disabled residents in this province’s long-term care facilities have been well documented over many

Alberta Hansard April 19, 2005850 years. These include inadequate staffing ratios, the need for better training of caregivers, lack of government inspections, and an overreliance on private, for-profit providers. Yet these long- standing problems have largely been swept under the rug while the government off-loads more charges onto residents in these facilities. My question is to the Premier. How can the Premier claim that seniors are well taken care of in long-term care facilities when they can go three or even four years without a government inspection? Mr. Klein: Mr.

Speaker, if that is indeed the case, I would ask the hon. member to provide evidence of that kind of neglect to the appropriate ministers. As I understand it, yesterday the Friends of Medicare held a news conference sponsored by the New Democrats. That news conference was to call for higher standards and more staff in long-term care facilities. Lynda Jonson, the spokesperson for the petition, says that she has witnessed staff and quality deficiencies in the system first-hand.

Now, both ministers involved, the Minister of Seniors and Community Supports and the Minister of Health and Wellness, have offered to meet with affected parties to determine whether, in fact, this is taking place. But I can tell the Assembly that improving long-term care is important to this government. We have been making progress. For example, we directed regional health authorities to raise the average hours of care each resident receives. This means more hands-on care every day for residents.

But more importantly – and I think that this is the point that needs to be made – no allegation of abuse in publicly funded care facilities is ignored. None. As a matter of fact, we have put in place the Protection for Persons in Care Act, requiring mandatory reporting of abuse in care facilities. Every report is investigated. If they have evidence of abuse in long-term care centres, then report it according to the law. Mr. Mason: Mr. Speaker, if long-term care facilities are indeed a priority for this government, why does the Premier not know how often they are inspected by government inspectors? Mr. Klein: Mr.

Speaker, again, according to the law, will the New Democrats obey the law – obey the law – and report? An Hon. Member: Answer the question. Mr. Klein: The answer to the question . . . [interjections] Mr. Speaker, I don’t need a lot of chatter from the other side. I don’t need a lot of chatter from the Liberals or the New Democrats. Mr. Speaker, if there are allegations, according to the law, will those allegations be reported to the appropriate ministers? Mr. Mason: Mr.

Speaker, will the Premier tell the Assembly, once he has familiarized himself with the inspection regulations for our long-term care facilities, what action he will take to beef up inspections at those long-term care centres and assisted-living facilities? That’s the question, Mr. Premier. Mr. Klein: To answer the question, Mr. Speaker, I really don’t know, but I will have the appropriate minister or ministers respond. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Nose Hill, followed by the hon. Member for St. Albert. Métis Hunting Rights Dr. Brown: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

For several weeks reports have been circulating that numbers of bighorn sheep have been killed by Métis hunters just outside our national parks ostensibly for subsistence reasons under the protection of the interim Métis harvesting agreements. These agreements allow Métis to hunt, trap, or fish for subsistence reasons and allow “the occasional sharing of wildlife or fish between Members,” but they do not address the issue of taking animals for other than their meat or the sale of animal parts, which is restricted under our Wildlife Act and regulations. My first question is for the hon.

Minister of Sustainable Resource Development. Given the fact that the bighorn sheep is the official mammal of Alberta and is a species at risk throughout much of its range and that trophy heads are extremely valuable, can the minister advise what mechanisms are in place to track the number of bighorn sheep that are being killed and to ensure the preservation of the gene pool in this treasured symbol of Alberta? Mr. Coutts: Mr. Speaker, our role in Sustainable Resource Develop- ment is definitely to manage the resource, and we do that by constant monitoring and enforcement of the resource.

We have been monitoring aboriginal harvesting activities since the 1930s, and we have several systems in place that assist us in doing that. I can report to the hon. member and to this House that all male bighorn sheep must be registered by all hunters, including aboriginals. During the last hunt and up to the end of March there were 145 bighorn sheep taken in the province, and I can report that of those seven were reported taken by Métis hunters. Dr. Brown: My supplemental, Mr. Speaker, is to the hon. Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

What sort of lists or tracking mechanisms exist to enable peace officers to know who is a bona fide Métis recognized by the Métis Nation of Alberta or a Métis settlement member? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Ms Calahasen: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, there are a number of ways that this is going to be done.

Under the agreement we have, the Métis Nation of Alberta as well as the Métis Settle- ments Council will use their best efforts to advise members that when a member is subject to an investigation by Alberta officials of a potential harvesting offence, the member will identify himself or herself as Métis. When they have done that, Alberta will examine that the harvesting has been done in accordance with this interim agreement, and if that Métis harvesting has been done in accordance with this interim agreement and applicable legislation and regula- tions, Alberta will take no further action.

However, should that not happen, then the applicable legislation and regulations will occur. Mr. Speaker, I think it’s important to talk about what kind of format will follow. There will be 45 days of . . . The Speaker: Hon. minister, the rules prohibit legal

interpretations. 2:00 Dr. Brown: My second supplemental, Mr. Speaker, is to the Minister of Sustainable Resource Development. Will the minister ensure that any new agreement with the Métis includes a provision specifically forbidding the sale of any animal parts taken under the Métis harvesting agreement? Mr. Coutts: Mr. Speaker, under the provincial Wildlife Act we can prosecute anyone who tries to sell wildlife. It is illegal to sell wildlife and its parts regardless of who you might be. Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development makes sure that it takes the lead in the continued negotiations with the Métis, and conservation is the key part of those particular discussions.

April 19, 2005 Alberta Hansard 851 The Speaker: The hon. Member for St. Albert, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Shaw. School Closures Mr. Flaherty: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Accountable, responsible government is a precious commodity, one that seems to be scarce in Alberta. This government is eager to take credit for the oil and gas found in the ground but continues to avoid responsibility for public school closures. Closures are happening as a result of the policy guidelines and funding decisions of this government.

My question to the Minister of Education: does the minister take no responsibility for the looming closure of four valued schools in Edmonton? Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr. Speaker, funding for education in this province just increased by 7.1 per cent. A year ago today it increased by over 6 per cent. Two years ago today it increased by over 5 per cent, and I expect that it will increase by similar amounts in the years to come because we have an outstanding education system, and we are investing wisely in it.

With respect to the school closure issue, I have addressed that issue in this House countless times, and I’m going to address it yet again. If you carefully read through the regulations and the School Act, you will see that school closures and rumours to that effect are entirely at the whim of the local school board. You have former school board members in your caucus and in the NDP caucus. Why don’t you talk to them about how the school closure process works? In that way, you’ll find out. Mr.

Flaherty: To the same minister: can the minister update the Assembly as to whether proper documentation was provided to parents involved in the school closure meetings, or is the minister not interested in enforcing his own regulation? The Speaker: Hon. minister, there are two questions there. Take either one. Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr. Speaker, the issue that I think the gentleman is referring to has to do with probably the cluster studies done by the Edmonton public school board.

Now, as the member would I hope know, there is a set procedure and there is a set standard of informa- tion and timelines and time frames and so on that has to be adhered to and followed. To the best of my knowledge any time a school board undertakes a school closure process – it can take up to a year – they follow those particular guidelines. If the member has some indication that certain documents that ought to have been provided were not provided, then he should talk to the school board in question about that issue. Mr. Flaherty: Parents need help.

A supplemental: what resources is the minister prepared to provide so that principals can work effectively with parents, who need to understand the long-range plan for renewing and building schools? What help will he give them? Mr. Zwozdesky: Well, Mr. Speaker, the cluster study included ample opportunities so far, perhaps more to come, for parents to have input. I assume that as part of their process there was a healthy exchange of information.

If parents want more information, all they have to do is contact the school board or their trustees or the school superintendent’s office, and they’ll get that information. I don’t know what information was provided by whom on what date for what purpose. It’s all clearly spelled out, and each school board is expected to follow that process. I would encourage the member to become more familiar with it. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Shaw, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Mill Woods. Mount Royal College Mrs. Ady: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Advanced Education.

People across the province, including my Calgary constituents, are concerned about access to postsecondary studies. Many are calling for Mount Royal College in Calgary to become a university in order to ensure that Calgarians have access to postsecondary education. In fact, this week there has been a letter-writing/petition campaign in the city of Calgary further calling for this to happen. My questions, as I said before, are to the Minister of Advanced Education. Can the minister advise us whether Mount Royal College has met all the requirements to become a university? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr.

Hancock: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There isn’t a set outline of criteria to become a university. It’s not something that happens every day. There’s no set procedure or process. What I can advise the hon. member is that we do have under the Post-secondary Learning Act the Campus Alberta Quality Council and that institu- tions that wish to offer baccalaureate degrees can apply to the Alberta quality council for approval of their degree program.

The Alberta quality council will look at the institution to see whether it’s capable of delivering the program and look at the program to see whether it qualifies for a baccalaureate degree and in that way ensure quality in the process. We have committed, Mr.

Speaker, to looking at the request from Mount Royal in the context of a process, an overall review of the postsecondary system, to determine whether moving Mount Royal from a college to a university is the appropriate way to go: what value it adds to the system, what value it adds to students in Calgary and southern Alberta and all of Alberta, what problems it creates and how we deal with those issues. Mrs. Ady: Mr. Speaker, my second question is to the same minister.

Has the minister discussed this approach with the officials at Mount Royal College, and are there other things that they could be doing in order to promote their request? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Hancock: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Indeed, I have had a number of discussions with both the chairman of the board of Mount Royal and with the president of Mount Royal College.

We have had discussions about their time frames, what would be helpful to them, what process they want to proceed with, and they understand the process that we’re proceeding with, which will be a review of the system in the context of the overall system across Alberta. There are a number of decisions, not all of the same magnitude of the Mount Royal college/university issue, a number of issues that need to be decided in the context of that system review, and we will try and complete that review by the end of October this year. The Speaker: The hon. member? The hon.

Member for Edmonton-Mill Woods, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-North Hill.

Alberta Hansard April 19, 2005852 Youth Residential Drug Treatment Mrs. Mather: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The new money for youth drug treatment centres in Alberta is important for the care of children. The opposition agrees w ith the government that new spaces are needed. Our only concern is with the funding disparity for new spaces. To the Minister of Health and Wellness: why is the facility in Calgary being appropriately tendered while the ministry is funding a new facility here in Edmonton without tendering? Ms Evans: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I wasn’t aware that there was a difference in how the facilities were being acquired, but I will say that with the approval of Bill 202 we are looking at how we treat the youth. We’re looking particularly at the emphasis in this legislation relative to detox and assessment, and we will be assessing our plans for how we advance what was in the budget, which was sufficient money to add some 34 staff in two locations to provide voluntary supports for youth.

This new capacity to look at mandatory assessments will mean that I’ve instructed our deputy to take a full review of what our plans are and to see how we make sure that we have healthy protocols in place for these affected children. The Speaker: The hon. member. 2:10 Mrs. Mather: Thank you. To the same minister: has the minister looked into the possibility of using existing programs in the Edmonton area rather than starting up a new program? Ms Evans: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I think we’ve had an incredible example of the constraints that parents find themselves in when they have children with crystal meth addictions, for example, and they are looking to us to find new ways to treat their children and to respond to the needs of the children. So although there may be some capacity in existing facilities – and I won’t suggest that they will not be used – the answer I’ve just given and will continue to give is that currently we are reassessing what our options are, taking a look at how we best provide for those children.

In that case, the facility in Edmonton may be appropriate, but we also have to make sure that certain criteria are in place to make sure that it’s secure. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mrs. Mather: Thank you. To the same minister: how are the 12 treatment beds being allocated in the seven other health regions outside Calgary and Edmonton? Ms Evans: Well, Mr. Speaker, we will be developing a plan around that. Of course, those are voluntary beds.

Again, when we have an opportunity for a review of what this new legislation can mean in terms of providing a comprehensive, well-structured plan, well- trained staff in place with the youth, when we take a look at what this new legislative piece will do, we’ll be better able to answer how we will address other bed needs throughout the province. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-North Hill, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Varsity. Federal Gas Tax Agreement Mr. Magnus: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Last week the province of British Columbia and the federal government signed an agreement to share federal gas taxes with their municipalities. My question to the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation is this. Why hasn’t Alberta signed a similar agreement? Dr. Oberg: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. We have been negotiating with the federal government and doing a very good job at negotiating with the federal government. I think what has happened in the past couple of weeks has added a sense of urgency to this.

With the potential for an upcoming election in the federal government I think there certainly is a sense of urgency to get this signed. Indeed, I have been in communication with Ottawa, and we hope to have this signed within the next two weeks. We will be the second province in Canada to have this signed and, as I say, hopefully within two weeks. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Magnus: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is good news. My supplemental to the same minister is: how much will Alberta municipalities get once that agreement is signed? Dr. Oberg: Well, Mr.

Speaker, the nice thing about this is that it is very sustainable funding. It’s over five years and very sustainable funding. It starts off at $40 million for the first two years, goes up to $80 million, and then $159 million for the fourth and fifth years. So the stability, the sustainab ility, certainly is there. There have been some musings that it will go on beyond five years, but we really haven’t seen anything final to that. It is good news. Even though it’s not as much money as we gave the municipalities, it certainly still is good news. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Magnus: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My final question, also to the same minister: how will those funds be distributed to our municipalities? Dr. Oberg: Mr. Speaker, one of the big things that we want and one of the things we do in this govern ment is that we ensure that the bureaucracy is kept to a minimum, so we’re going to be distributing it in exactly the same way as we’ve done our municipal infrastruc- ture program. Certainly, there will be a ceiling for those small communities, and everything else will be delivered on a per capita type of arrangement. This has been an arrangement that has been accepted by the AAMD and C and the AUMA.

Certainly, we want to ensure that as much money as possible goes out to the municipali- ties and is not used up in bureaucracy. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Varsity, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona. Parks and Protected Areas Mr. Chase: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The federal government has renewed its commitment to repairing decaying infrastructure in Alberta’s national parks, which account for 8 per cent of our provincial land use.

The provincial government, to its credit, is also starting to repair parks and protected areas, which together make up 4 per cent of Alberta’s heritage land. A large portion of this year’s Community Development parks and protected areas infrastructure budget will again be spent on restoring Canmore’s world-renowned Nordic Centre. My questions are all to the Minister of Community Development. My first question: approximately what portion of the remaining money will be spent on reopening closed conservation offices and rehiring officers? Just ballpark. Mr. Mar: Mr.

Speaker, this would be a more appropriate question to be asking in Committee of Supply. The hon. member knows or

April 19, 2005 Alberta Hansard 853 ought to know that that is scheduled for the evening of the 11th of May, day 24 of Committee of Supply. I can share with him the broad numbers that are contained in the budget, which he has a copy of, and I would refer him to page 82 of that budget, sir. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Chase: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Again to the hon. Minister of Community Development: approximately what percent- age of parks and protected areas will have their trails, buildings, and downed border fences restored? Mr. Mar: Mr.

Speaker, in approaching the issue of how to restore our parks to the kind of condition that they ought to be in, we’ve got to do it on a priority basis. It won’t be done on the basis of a percentage of how many we’ll be able to get done. There are some areas that remain in very, very good condition, that don’t require any capital upgrades. The long and the short of it, Mr. Speaker, is that I appreciate the hon. member bringing attention to the fact that we are making this effort.

As an example, sir, under Capital Investment in program 5 on page 82 of the budget we are moving our gross expenditure to $41.1 million. That is up from approximately $9.36 million. So clearly a large investment, a significant increase, sir. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Chase: Thank you very much. Again to the hon. Minister of Community Development: will this government commit to a freeze on public land sales while setting aside more land for parks and protected areas? Mr. Mar: Sir, that is not within the purview of the Minister of Community Development. The Speaker: The hon.

Member for Edmonton-Strathcona, followed by the hon. Member for Lac La Biche-St. Paul. Abortion Services Dr. Pannu: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Women in northern Alberta are understandably concerned by Capital health’s decision to no longer provide abortion services at the Royal Alexandra hospital effective May 13. This essential service should be provided in a public facility, and access s hould not depend on a sole, private provider. Waits for abortions are already two to three weeks, and longer waits simply are unacceptable. My question is to the Minister of Health and Wellness.

What action will the government take to keep the Royal Alex clinic open so that women in Edmonton and northern Alberta requiring this time-sensitive procedure are not forced to endure even longer waits? Ms Evans: Mr. Speaker, Capital health, as they are delegated to do, made the decision to assign to a private clinic the responsibility for abortions for a very good reason. They wanted to accommodate in vitro fertilization at the Royal Alex and have made accommodation to do so. It is their expectation that the staff at the private clinic will be increased to accommodate the increased volume of traffic.

In speaking with the chief executive officer of the Capital health authority this morning, I’m understanding that once the new facility is constructed at the Royal Al ex hospital, once again medically necessary abortions will be performed in this publicly funded hospital. The Speaker: The hon. member. Dr. Pannu: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the minister again: what steps will the government take to work with Capital health on a longer term plan to make abortion services available in a public facility rather than having women depend on an uncertain future of a single, private clinic? Ms Evans: Well, Mr.

Speaker, up until this point the Royal Alex has been providing the service. The clinic has got an excellent track record for providing service, has been accessible to women, and has been doing an exceptional job of counselling, so in fact the women in northern Alberta will not see a reduction in service or in service quality. I’ve already stated that the opportunity for public facilities to be used in future is part of their long-term plan.

Currently they are making this kind of accommodation so that another needed service in northern Alberta for women, that women are asking for and that is important because this in vitro fertilization is an ex- tremely important benefit of new technology – they want to accommodate it as well, and this is the best place for it. The Speaker: The hon. member. Dr. Pannu: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

A further question to the minister: what steps will the government take to ensure that women in northern communities like Grande Prairie and Fort McMurray are able to access abortion services closer to home, putting a stop to the extra expense and delays involved with making a long trip to Edmonton? Ms Evans: Well, Mr. Speaker, that’s in fact an excellent question. The regional health authorities, especially in outlying areas, have challenges relative to the volumes of traffic that are there, and we’ve had an excellent presentation from Fort McMurray, from Wood Buffalo relative to thei r needs.

We have been working with staff through Alberta Health and Wellness, with even the Capital health region to look at whether there are any linkages we can make with Northern Lights. For these outly ing districts to provide the same level of service might not be practical, but we are working with them to ensure that as much as possible we provide the medically necessary services, and hopefully in the future we’ll be able to abbreviate some of the wait and the inconvenience for people in outlying regions. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Lac La Biche-St. Paul, followed by the hon.

Member for Edmonton-Rutherford. 2:20 Benefits of SuperNet for Rural Alberta Mr. Danyluk: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Access to the SuperNet will be a great benefit to rural Alberta in multiple applica- tions. Telehealth used in conjunction with the SuperNet will allow for echocardiograms, MRIs, or dermatology images and pictures to be sent across the province to a number of leading physicians to provide the most accurate diagnosis without having a patient drive, as mentioned, hundreds and even thousands of kilometres to see their physician face to face.

The technology is ready to help assist rural Albertans obtain the best the health system has to offer. We need the information infrastructure to be in place. My first question is to the Minister of Restructuring and Government Efficiency. What steps is the minister taking to ensure that SuperNet stays on track and doesn’t fall further behind, preventing remote rural Alberta from having access to health services and health professions urbans living . . .

Alberta Hansard April 19, 2005854 The Speaker: I think we got the gist of the question. Mr. Ouellette: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The hon. member is certainly right. The SuperNet will be of great benefit to rural Alberta. It’s good to know the construction of the SuperNet is at a point where the challenges of building 12,000 kilometres of broadband technology are behind us. In fact, 36 Alberta communi- ties were connected to the SuperNet just last week, bringing the total to 201. That’s exactly half of the 402 communities to be connected. But halfway isn’t good enough.

Bell and Axia are well aware that I intend to continue holding their feet to the fire with penalty provisions for construction delays that include a $100 million performance bond. As such, there’s no reason to believe our deadlines won’t be met for rural Alberta. The SuperNet will truly be part of our centennial celebrations. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Danyluk: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My next question is to the Minister of Health and Wellness.

When SuperNet is completed and all rural communities have high-speed telehealth transfer capabili- ties, will mobile MRI units be introduced to provide approximately 300,000 rural Albertans access to leading-edge diagnostic services? Ms Evans: Well, Mr. Speaker, that’s certainly entirely a possibility. When I first received the opportunity to serve in this ministry, there were health authorities, health board chairmen that were telling me they were working in that direction.

Alberta Health and Wellness is working with the radiologists and with the authorities to determine how best to provide standards of support for introduction of either mobile MRIs or some other capacity for regions to be sure to access the service. Currently if these tests are needed, doctors define the priority, and nobody is denied access to an MRI. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Danyluk: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Could the minister of health also please tell us what other high-tech programs and services her ministry is looking into to help deliver high-quality health care to rural Albertans?

Ms Evans: Mr. Speaker, Alberta telehealth provides service in 260 sites. Thirty clinical areas, including diagnosing lung cancer, monitoring heart and dialysis patients, and responding instantly to emergencies, are available. We have the leading record in Canada for our electronic record. We have 9,000 linked to the electronic record, and we are already seeing an impact in the reduction of duplication of tests. We know that our system is safer, and I think that we’ve advanced more in rural Alberta than they have in any part of Canada. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Rutherford, followed by the hon.

Member for Red Deer-North. Insurance Rates for Small- and Medium-sized Businesses Mr. R. Miller: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Small- and medium-sized Alberta businesses are being plagued by the escalating costs of all types of insurance: automobile, commercial, life, and disability. The government’s auto insurance reforms, while chaotic in nature, have at least provided some minimal relief. However, they apply only to privately owned and operated vehicles and do nothing to address the concerns of Alberta’s small-business owners. My question is for the Minister of Finance.

Why did this government make the choice to do nothing to protect small- and medium-sized businesses from skyrocketing auto insurance premiums? Mrs. McClellan: Mr. Speaker, insurance is sold in this province under the private sector. When we looked at automobile insurance reform, we looked at the portion of automobile insurance that is compulsory in nature, thus saying that you cannot operate a vehicle in this province if you do not carry public liability and property damage.

So it was very appropriate that the government ensure that insurance that we require people to carry be available to them at a reasonable rate, and that’s, indeed, what automobile insurance reforms have done. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. R. Miller: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the same minister: will the government undertake to review the property and casualty insurance issues affecting small- and medium-sized enterprises? Mrs. McClellan: Well, Mr. Speaker, I have a concern, but surely the hon. member is not saying – well, maybe he is – that we should regulate all private companies and their operations.

Should we not allow car dealerships to sell cars at a competitive rate? Should we not allow insurance companies to sell insurance at a competitive rate? It is a competitive business, and it is a business. We encour- age people to shop around and make sure that they are getting the most competitive price for that. If I were to review property insurance, what would the review accomplish? That’s my question. Perhaps the hon. member will enlighten me on where he’s going with this in his next question. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. R. Miller: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Given outrageously high insurance premiums and reported r ecord profits, will this govern- ment eliminate the hidden insurance premium taxes collected on all insurance premiums – all insurance premiums – paid by small businesses? Mrs. McClellan: Well, there’s a question I can answer, Mr. Speaker. Can I have the assurance that if we remove the 3 per cent tax on insurance, which partly co vers the cost of regulating that industry in this province, the actual consumers will r eceive that benefit rather than the companies themselves? The Speaker: The hon. Member for Red Deer-North, followed by the hon.

Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie. Recreational Sport Fishing Mrs. Jablonski: Thank you. Mr. Speaker, a very wise man, who just happens to be my husband, always says that if you take your son hunting, you will never have to hunt for him; if you take your son fishing, you’ll never have to fish for him. Thanks to this philosophy my family spent many happy camping weekends together, fishing the beautiful lakes and rivers of this great province. But something has changed. Many of my constituents are now going to B.C. and Saskatchewan to fish because the opportunities are much better there.

My questions are for the Minister of Sustainable Resource Development. What are we doing to support the fish populations in our lakes and rivers, and why are so many people leaving to fish in B.C. and Saskatchewan?

April 19, 2005 Alberta Hansard 855 *See p. 849, left col. para. 5. Mr. Coutts: Mr. Speaker, Alberta’s lakes and rivers face the third highest angling pressures in Canada. We do have a tremendous sports fishery with about 300, 000 fishermen. One-third of them don’t pay for any fishing licences at all; they’re either youngsters or seniors. We have a good fishery considering the fact that we only have 1,100 fish-bearing waters in the province as compared to 90,000 in Saskatchewan and many more deep lakes in British Columbia.

Through our programs of conservation we really do have good su ccess with ensuring conservation. I know that the hon. member is concerned about walleye fisheries in the province, and we’ve loosened up walleye regulations on 14 lakes in our province over the past two years. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mrs. Jablonski: Thank you. To the same minister: is fish stocking part of the solution? Mr. Coutts: Mr. Speaker, definitely fish stocking is a great part of our solution. We have a significant stocking program here in Alberta.

There are about 300 waters that we provide fish stocking for, and 40 per cent of our recreational fishing comes from stocked waters. There are 3.5 million trout stocked in our province, and that’s brown trout, rainbow trout, and brook trout. Natural popula- tions, of course, are the most effective, but when trying to provide recreational fishing, we need to definitely have a stocking program. 2:30 Mrs. Jablonski: To the same minister: given that revenue from fishing and hunting licences goes to the Alberta Conservation Association, does any of this money go to stocking fish in Alberta?

The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Coutts: Yes, indeed, Mr. Speaker. The Alberta Conservation Association provides a tremendous amount of support to our provincial stocking program, and a breakdown of the revenue from fish and wildlife licences: 27 per cent goes to general revenue, 1 per cent goes to the Professional Outfitters Society, 22 per cent pays for computer systems for vendors, and almost 50 per cent goes to the association for fish and wildlife conservation.

So a recent report from the ACA also shows that enhanced stocking involved 67 water bodies in Alberta and more than 118,000 trout in addition to many other fish programs in the province. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Hays. Edmonton Remand Centre Mr. Agnihotri: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The protection of basic human rights in Alberta applies to all people.

In fact, the human rights act states quite clearly that “recognition of the inherent dignity and the equal and inalienable rights of all persons is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace,” quite powerful words that apply to all, including those housed in remand centres. My question is to the Solicitor General. Last week the hon. minister stated in regard to the Remand Centre that “these are corrections facilities for criminals.” Can the minister explain if the people housed in the Remand Centre are included as all guilty of an offence, or does

section 11(

d) of the Charter of Rights of Freedoms apply? The Speaker: Okay. For about the sixth time now in the last number of days I’m going to say that the question period is not the place for legal

interpretation. Mr. Cenaiko: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The question the hon. member raised is that the Edmonton Remand Centre does house individuals that have been through court or are making their way through the court process. They’re remanded into custody by a judge until their court case is before the courts. So, clearly, they have their rights with them. They have the ability to meet with a lawyer, discuss their cases with a lawyer, but they’re there in a remand situation not as an offender. Mr. Agnihotri: My first supplemental is to the Minister of Commu- nity Development.

Given the well-documented Third World conditions at the Remand Centre, that constitutes a violation of human rights, will the minister in vestigate these abuses of human rights that are occurring at the Edmonton Remand Centre? It is the responsibility of the government to protect all Albertans. Mr. Mar: Mr. Speaker, it is not known to me what conditions are like in the Third World, and to try and compare them to the Remand Centre is, I think, a very, very difficult thing to do. What I can say, however, is that the Human Rights Commission operates at arm’s length from government.

The government does not direct the Human Rights Commission in any way, shape, or form. It serves as a quasi-judicial function and as an administrative body determines its mandate and its process for investigating complaints that are filed against it or to it by, for example, in the case suggested by the hon. member, somebody who is in the Remand Centre. I’m certain that the Human Rights Commission will take appropri- ate steps and process to investigate such things if somebody makes such a complaint. Mr.

Agnihotri: To the same minister: can the minister explain to the two men who were raped by the same inmate while under the government’s custody why this government failed to protect their fundamental rights? Mr. Mar: Mr. Speaker, there seems to be a confusion with respect to responsibilities. In this particular case the hon. member has talked about a criminal activity that took pl ace on the site of the Remand Centre. So it’s an appropriate step that the individual involved as a victim has redress by filing criminal charges.

In any case where there is a criminal activity that is taking place – it matters not whether it’s in the Remand Centre or outside of the Remand Centre – the appropriate steps are to be tabled by filing charges. It is not a matter of human rights in this case. The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Gaming to supplement an answer. Social Assistance Rates (continued) Mr. Graydon: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier in question period in a question from the hon. Member for Edmonton-Manning in his

preamble he made a very inaccurate statement that the government was giving money to Horse Racing Alberta. The true fact is that Horse Racing Alberta has the ability to earn money – earn money – at the racing entertainment centres in four locations in the province.* Based on the amount of entertainment money spent at those racetracks, a portion of that money is earned by Horse Racing

Alberta Hansard April 19, 2005856 Alberta. As well, a portion of that money flows into the Alberta lottery fund to the benefit of all Albertans and many communities. I would also point out that the economy of the province of Alberta benefits to the tune of nine times what they are able to earn at those racing entertainment centres. The Speaker: As per our practices the hon. Member for Edmonton- Manning has a supplemental question to ask if he chooses to. Mr. Backs: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The interest of Albertans is clear in any monies that are spent by Albertans, and certainly the monies from lotteries are included in the budgetary monies. My question is to the minister. Because of this large number, $45 million given to horse racing, that could be given to other areas and, of course, is brought from all these realistic monies that are coming from raising funds that could go elsewhere, why cannot some of this be given to the poor families of this province? Mrs. McClellan: I’m going to make one more attempt at this, and I invite the hon. member to take

part in our estimates and talk about the budgetary process. The Minister of Gaming has clearly laid out that this money is not given to Horse Racing Alberta. In fact, they earn those dollars through the racing entertainment centres, Mr. Speaker. I invite the hon. members opposite to get more acquainted with an industry in this province that not only provides entertainment but provides jobs, many of them in the area in this city just northeast of this building.

I would invite them to examine the jobs, the work they’ve done in education with a program for groomsmen at Olds College, the improvements in the backstretch, the child care programs that they have initiated, and look at an industry that has a proud history in this province and is making a very real contribution to the economy in this province. The Speaker: There’s only one supplemental question.

Hon. members, I’ll introduce a number of members to participate momentarily, but might we revert briefly to the Introduction of Guests? [Unanimous consent granted] head: Introduction of Guests (reversion) The Speaker: All right. The hon. Minister of International and Intergovernmental Relations, and I think there’s identification that’s pretty obvious here, but please proceed. Mr. Stelmach: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you for the consideration of allowing me to reintroduce these very special guests.

I wish to introduce to you and through you to members of this Assembly 15 very special ladies from the city of Fort Saskatche- wan. They’re the first

chapter of the Red Hat Society to be regis- tered, and earlier I read more about their background. On their website they say: “There is fun after fifty . . . for women of all walks of life. We believe silliness is the comedy relief of life and, since we are all in it together, we might as well join red-gloved hands and go for the gusto together.” I am so happy that you are able to stay here and rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. Have a good look at their hats. The Speaker: I think, though, an obvious correction must be made, hon. minister.

There’s not a lady up there over the age of 50. The hon. Deputy Speaker. 2:40 Mr. Marz: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s a pleasure for me today to introduce to you and through you Bea Niedersteiner, a co-ordinator, plus 30 other active seniors that are involved with the Didsbury District Community Bus Society. This trip to the Legislature today marks the very first trip for their newly acquired community bus, and hopefully they’ll be able to get to use it many, many more times during our centennial year to tour our wonderful province.

They’re seated in the public gallery, and I’d ask them to rise and receive the very warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: In just a few seconds I’ll call on the first of six members. head: Members’ Statements The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. Participation of Women in Politics Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Alberta, home to the Famous Five, was in the forefront in extending political rights to women.

Eighty-nine years ago on April 19, 1916, the Alberta Liberal government, led by Premier Arthur Sifton, passed the Alberta equal suffrage act, granting most, but not all, Alberta women the right to vote in provincial elections. They exercised this right in June of 1917 and elected Mrs. Louise McKinney and nursing sister Roberta MacAdams to the Alberta Legislature. For the first time in either a Canadian or British Assembly women were elected to serve as members. In 1997 our province briefly led the country in electing women, with women holding 27 per cent of the seats in the Legislature.

Unfortunately, this is the high mark in Alberta politics. Since then women have been rapidly losing ground, with only 13 women elected during the 2004 Alberta election, the lowest number since 1989. This trend must be reversed. According to a survey released last fall by the Centre for Research and Information on Canada, 90 per cent of Canadians think electing more women will improve the political system. Canadians rank electing women higher than any of the other suggested reforms, including referendums and proportional representation.

If more women are indeed part of the solution to the burgeoning democratic deficit, Albertans are out of luck. In the last provincial election the Progressive Conservative Party offered only 12 women candidates, down from 17. Eleven of these were incumbents. We Liberals had 18 candidates, the same as last time, while the NDs managed to recruit 25 women candidates. Over half of the ridings in Alberta couldn’t elect a woman even if they wanted to because all of the candidates were men.

Unless there is a concerted effort by parties, pundits, nonpartisan groups, and electoral reform activists, Alberta’s strong record of promoting women’s political representa- tion will be little more than a historical footnote. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: Hon. members, simply because the Famous Five were mentioned here today, I’d just give you an update. The maquette, the major statuettes that are located in Ottawa, a replica figure will be coming here shortly. We made the arrangements with the Famous Five Foundation to have them housed in this building for much of the 2005 centennial celebrations.

The hon. Member for Lac La Biche-St. Paul.

April 19, 2005 Alberta Hansard 857 Youth Secretariat Mr. Danyluk: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. In the spring of 1999 our Premier announced the formation of the Youth Secretariat, to be housed in the Ministry of Children’s Services. The Youth Secretariat was developed to recognize the importance of youth in Alberta. Youth play a significant role in this province and have demonstrated to us that they are innovative and inspiring contribu- tors. The Youth Secretariat allows government to communicate openly with young people and together identify and address youth issues.

Youth have the expertise as well as the solutions. It is our responsibility to give them an opportunity to use their voices. It is my honour to work for and with the youth of Alberta as the newly appointed chair of the Youth Secretariat. Together it is important to ensure that we have a solid youth perspective on all youth initiatives.

In my conversations with youth, community stakeholders, and the ministry staff we have identified that the Youth Secretariat’s priorities to date are illicit drug use, identifying gaps in services for youth, putting together a new Youth Advisory Panel, and working with other youth networks across Alberta. It is quite evident that youth are committed to making realistic change for their peers who are confronted with addiction issues. We look forward to continued communication with young people as we develop effective solutions in this area.

The Youth Secretariat will be assembling a new Youth Advisory Panel for Alberta. Youth input will be crucial in setting the direction for the Youth Secretariat in the coming year. I look forward to updating the members of this Assembly on Youth Secretariat activities and sharing the great work of our youth in effective change in Alberta. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Wetaskiwin-Camrose. Camrose Kodiaks Hockey Team Mr. Johnson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last night before a sold-out crowd of 2,200 the Camrose Kodiaks won the Alberta Junior Hockey League championships.

They defeated the defending champion Fort McMurray Oil Barons 4 to 2 in game seven at the Max McLean Arena in Camrose. This is the third time in the last five years that the Kodiaks have won the Alberta Junior Hockey League championships. Led by head coach Boris Rybalka and assistant coaches Doug Fleck and Miles Walsh, this team of 24 up- and-coming hockey players came back from a 3 to 1 series deficit, staving off defeat by winning the last three games of the series. The three provincial championships in the last five years are not their only accomplishment.

In 2001 the Kodiaks won the Royal Bank Canadian junior championships. In 2003 they won the silver medal at the Royal Bank Canadian junior tournament. In 2001 and 2003 they won the Alberta/B.C. Doyle Cup. This is a very impres- sive record considering that the Kodiaks have only been in the Alberta Junior Hockey League for eight seasons. All Albertans are hoping this winning record continues when the Kodiaks first meet the Surrey Eagles this Friday in the 2005 Doyle Cup on their way to another Royal Bank Canadian championship to be held later in Weyburn.

The Kodiaks are owned and operated by the Camrose Sport Development Society, a nonprofit community organization whose purpose it is to promote and develop a strong sports program in the community. The Camrose Sport Development Society stresses the importance of combining a successful education with sport. Many of the Kodiaks of the past have been awarded scholarships to various universities. The Kodiaks are proud to be members of the Alberta Junior Hockey League.

The Alberta Junior Hockey League started in the 1960s with only five teams and now provides a high level of hockey for 15 Alberta teams throughout our province. The league itself encourages further education for all players, and it is an important part of our Alberta sport history. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Fort. Alberta: Land of Opportunity Mr. Cao: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Alberta, the land of opportunity. Alberta is the top destination for Canadian migration. Between 1996 and 2001 Alberta’s net gain was around 120,000 citizens. In 2002 Alberta gained 18,000 newcomers.

Last year alone 11,600 Canadi- ans came, saw, and settled in this great land of Alberta. All indicators predict that this trend continues. These are just numbers, but the real situation can be seen in the construction and expansion of residential communities, shopping malls, office buildings, warehouses, roadways, hospitals, schools, and many private and public facilities.

The real situation can be felt in seeing the many happy faces at community events, the laughter of young children playing in the playgrounds, the waving of hands to new friends in the neighbourhood, the high traffic on the way to work, and the tasting of food varieties for dinner after a productive day. In a recent newspaper headline it said: Alberta Is Number One Pot of Gold at the End of the Rainbow. I often wonder why Alberta has attracted so many hard-working people from many parts of the world and Canada. Positive can-do attitudes of Albertans plus sound governing policies must be the reason.

The ancient Oriental proverb goes: good land, birds nest. May I say it politically, or rather Cao- fucius says: good government, people come. Mr. Speaker, Alberta is now like a well-disciplined and caring family, free of debt, living within its means. Without debt to pay, all of its incomes are dedicated to saving for the future and spending on essentials and growth development. All in all, Alberta is doing very well, but we cannot be compl acent. We s hould keep on working together for this land of opportunity. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Castle Downs. Pope Benedict XVI Mr.

Lukaszuk: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today is a most momen- tous day. Over one billion Catholics have a new spiritual leader with the election of Pope Benedict XVI. At approximately 9:50 a.m. our time 115 cardinals from 52 countries burned their ballots from the fourth round of voting in the stove of the Sistine Chapel. White smoke, or, as they announce it, fumo bianco, poured out of Vatican City, signalling that they had come to a decision, and delighted crowds awaited, ripe with anticipation.

Shortly after, Card inal Jorge Arturo Medina Estevez appeared to introduce the newly elected pope, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. Cardinal Ratzinger addressed the thousands of people in St. Peter’s Square for the first time as pope. He described himself as a humble worker in the vineyard of the Lord. 2:50 I cannot express how pleased all Catholics around the world are today. The College of Cardinals had the wisdom to elect a gifted theologian, a man who has been a very influential member of the Catholic Church.

Joseph Ratzinger was formerly the archbishop of Munich and for many years the prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith. He al so sat as dean of the College of

Alberta Hansard April 19, 2005858 Cardinals. He served in the papacy of John Paul II with dedication and is a very fitting choice to be our 265th pope and the first Germanic pope since the 11th century. Without question Pope Benedict XVI has some big shoes to fill. Pope John Paul II was a great man and led the Catholic Church with wisdom and kindness. I would like to congratulate the Catholic Church on the election of Pope Benedict XVI. I pray he will lead our faith and the world with the same wisdom, humility, and kindness as his predecessor. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar.

Ken Fearnley Mr. MacDonald: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We must express our gratitude to all those who provide affordable, safe, and secure housing for Alberta’s seniors. One of the many not-for-profit organizations in Alberta that provide a secure and dignified way of living for seniors is the Greater Edmonton Foundation. The foundation has over 350 caring and dedicated staff, with an annual operating budget of $15 mi llion. This staff’s prudent use of this budget provides housing to over 2,000 low-income seniors in Edmonton at 10 lodges and 10 self-contained apartment buildings.

Today I would like to recognize one of the many fine employees of the Greater Edmonton Foundation who r ecently retired after 13 years, Mr. Ken Fearnley. Mr. Fearnley was the chief administrative officer reporting to a board of directors appointed by Edmonton city council. Mr. Fearnley had a career that was outstanding as a public administrator. His dedication and commitment are an example for us all. At this time on behalf of all hon. Members of this Legislative Assembly I would like to wish Mr. Fearnley and his family well in all their endeavours in his retirement. In conclusion, Mr.

Speaker, I would like to thank him for making our city, our province, and our respective communities a better place to live. His efforts do not go unnoticed nor unappreciated. Thank you. head: Presenting Petitions The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Beverly-Clareview. Mr. Martin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to table a petition signed by Albertans who are very concerned about the dangerous driving conditions faced by many workers in northern Alberta.

In particular, the 428 people who signed are urging the government to “increase infrastructure development for funding Highway 63.” This brings the total of this petition to 2,146 signatures. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Manning. Mr. Backs: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to rise and present a petition from 108 Albertans in the fine communities of Rochester, Calmar, Rolly View, Sylvan Lake, Stettler, Clyde, and Edmonton.

It reads: We the undersigned residents of Alberta, petition the Legislative Assembly to urge the Government of Alberta to prohibit the importation of temporary foreign workers to work on the construc- tion and/or maintenance of oil sands facilities and/or pipelines until the following groups have been accessed and/or trained: Unem- ployed Albertans and Canadians; Aboriginals; unemployed youth under 25; under-employed landed immigrants; and displaced farmers. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. head: Tabling Returns and Reports The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona. Dr. Pannu: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I’d like to table the appropri- ate number of copies of around 1,350 signatures from Albertans who would like to see an increase in the number of caregivers per resident in long-term care facilities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Beverly-Clareview. Mr. Martin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table the appropriate number of copies of an e-mail received by my colleague the leader of the NDP opposition.

The letter is from an oil sands worker who is concerned that bringing foreign temporary workers to work in northern Alberta will reduce his wages and prevent Alber- tans from being able to get their start in the trades. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Mountain View. Dr. Swann: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have the appropriate number of copies from a group called the Coalition for Alberta’s Future, consisting of “five thousand citizens and families who own land in excess of 5-million . . . acres” and are seriously concerned about the need for reform and how the oil and gas activity is regulated in the province. A second tabling, Mr. Speaker, if I may: the appropriate number of copies of photographs taken around the Sawn Lake area, where development has been occurring without permission. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. Mr. MacDonald: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I have one tabling this afternoon, and it’s a document inviting everyone to a school closure summit workshop, which is to take place this Sunday, April 24, at 1 p.m. at Duggan Hall at 37th Avenue and 106th Street. It is a meeting that has been organized to provide Edmonton public school board and, hopefully, this government “with input about the principles [that] should be used to guide” the public school closure process. It needs to be changed. Thank you. The Speaker: Are there others?

Hon. members, it is my pleasure to table the appropriate number of copies of the fourth School at the Legislature Report Card 2003/2004. This is the Legislative Assembly educational program for grade 6 students cosponsored with community partners Capital City Savings, Priority Printing, and Access Media Group. head: Orders of the Day head: Committee of Supply [Mr. Marz in the chair] The Chair: I’d like to call the Committee of Supply to order. head: Main Estimates 2005-06 Advanced Education The Chair: The hon. Minister of Advanced Education.

April 19, 2005 Alberta Hansard 859 Mr. Hancock: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to open Committee of Supply with a few remarks and then take the opportu- nity to answer questions from members with respect to the supply that we’re requesting for the Department of Advanced Education.

Before I start those remarks, I’d like to introduce a number of people who are in the gallery to support me in whatever way they can, by signalling or waving or smiling or frowning or nodding or shaking or rattling or whatever it is that they can do to communicate with me, because we have a very, very dedicated gr oup of people who work in and for the Department of Advanced Education, or, more appropriately, for the people of Alberta. Having some familiarity, I think I can say that across government we have dedicated people working for Albertans.

But I have to tell you that I am very impressed with and have had a great deal of assistance and direction from the people in Advanced Education. We’ve worked through the last three months postelection in a very truncated time frame, dealing with getting together the business plan for the newly constituted department, dealing with putting together the proposals, first of all, for the Premier’s speech to the province at the beginning of February and then the throne speech and then Bill 1.

This group of people and the people who work with them and for them have done yeoman service over the last three months and indeed through their considerable years of service to the province and to the people of this province. 3:00 I’d ask Dr.

Bill Byrne, who’s the deputy minister of the depart- ment, to stand; Phil Gougeon, the assistant deputy minister, adult learning; Shirley Dul, who’s the assistant deputy minister of apprenticeship and industry training; Rai Batra, who we’ve just recently stolen from Community Development, who’s the assistant deputy minister of strategic services; Gerry Waisman, who’s the executive director of learner assistance – there’s a man you want to know; he gives out $480 million a year to Alberta students – Solomon Quarshie, acting director of financial services; and Michael Shields, director of communications.

I’d ask them to stand because I want all members of the Legislature to be able to see what a wonderful team of people they have serving students in this province and advancing education. Mr. Chairman, government has announced in Budget 2005 a strong commitment to advancing education that will go a long way towards addressing both immediate needs and future demands on postsecondary education in this province. These aren’t just increases to line items in the budget.

All these budget items are grounded in this government’s overall 20-year strategic plan, a plan that’s built on fiscal responsibility but one that looks to the long-term picture. This is a budget that puts wheels on that strategic plan. This budget puts the leading in learning pillar into motion. Mr. Chairman, I would also say that although this is the Advanced Education department, we not only contribute to the leading in learning pillar but certainly to unleashing innovation, helping Albertans compete in the global economy, and above all making Alberta the best place to live, work, and visit.

A key part of leading in learning is having a world-class postsecondary system based on accessibility, affordability, and quality, and this ministry has made concrete steps towards this goal by making it an integral part of our three-year business plan for advancing education. Advanced Education’s mission is for Alberta to be a learning society where all Albertans have access to the opportunity to develop the learning, work, and life skills that they need to achieve their aspirations and maximize their potential to the benefit of themselves and Alberta.

To achieve this success, we’ve set out the four strategic priorities that will guide everything this ministry does throughout the next three years. Those strategic priorities are leading in learning, one of the p illars in the government’s 20-year strategic plan, so obviously it must be our ministry’s main priority; access for all learners so that all Albertans have access to opportuni- ties to achieve their aspirations and maximize their human potential; affordability for all learners to ensure that costs are not a barrier to a student getting an education; and quality and innovation.

To be a leader in learning Alberta must continue to move ahead towards excellence. All budget items are designed to address these strategic priorities and move Advanced Education toward succeeding in its mission, and that will ultimately move the Alberta government and Alberta closer to achieving our 20-year strategic plan. To that end, I’ll go through the 2005 budget by looking at the four strategic priorities in the ministry’s plan and key spending items under each area. Leading in learning, a top prior ity in the government’s 20-year plan, a key strategy in this ministry’s three-year business plan.

It’s about the whole system. This includes all advanced education. Yes, university and college programs, but also literacy, trades and occupations, English as a Second Language, and other adult learning opportunities. That’s the context for the 2005-2006 Advanced Education budget. Over the next three years Advanced Education will increase its budget by nearly 30 per cent, or $433 million, bringing the total program expense for the ministry to almost $1.9 billion. This funding increase will begin immediately in the 2005-2006 year.

Government is focused strongly on advanced education in order to leave a legacy of higher learning for the future, and a big part of that is making sure that the resource wealth that Alberta enjoys today isn’t spent but is invested to help future generations of Albertans achieve their postsecondary aspirations. That’s where initiatives such as the access to the future e ndow- ment come in. In 2005-2006 the government will make a $250 million initial payment towards the $3 billion access to the future endowment.

We asked Albertans what they wanted done with future surpluses, and they told us that advanced education was a priority. That’s what this endowment fund is all about, Mr. Chairman: saving a portion of the unbudgeted surpluses for the future and investing them in a way which helps to create the future. Another way we’re preparing to lead in learning is by encouraging parents to save for their children’s education through the Alberta centennial education savings plan. Funding for the Alberta centen- nial education savings plan in 2005-2006, its first full fiscal year, will be $19.5 million. Mr.

Chairman, the education savings plan has a greater good than just encouraging the parents to save for their children’s future education. We know that people who have an expectation that their children will go to school have a greater degree of success in having their children go to school. By asking parents to consider opening an education savings plan at the birth of their child, we’ll create the expectation at that child’s birth that that child will go on to have an advanced education. We’re also increasing, Mr.

Chairman, assistance to postsecondary institutions by more than 31 per cent, or $382 million, over the next three years.

That includes, as was requested by the postsecondary institutions themselves, sustained three-year budget increases of 6 per cent per year, or greater than 18 per cent, a $205 million increase in base operating grants over the three years to enhance accessibility and quality instruction, $90 million additionally in the access growth fund over three years to achieve the target of adding 15,000 postsecondary sp aces, $4 million a nnually to support degree- granting programs at private, not -for-profit colleges that weren’t previously included. Funding to support operating costs of new

Alberta Hansard April 19, 2005860 postsecondary facilities will increase from $8.7 million in 2005-2006 to $19.5 million in 2007-2008. These line items will go a long way towards helping Alberta lead in learning, but as I’ve said before, more can be done. Does that mean more dollars? Better use of existing resources? New types of programs? We don’t have all those answers yet, and that’s why we’re also undertaking a postsecondary education review this year. It will look at the funding issues. It will look at issues of affordability, and in fact it will look at the entire system. Mr.

Chairman, as I mentioned in the House earlier today, issues and decisions in the context of Mount Royal College versus Mount Royal university or other dramatic changes to the system have to be made in the context of Alberta as a learning society and what we need to have in place to make sure that we have the system neces- sary to make sure all Albertans have the opportunity to advance their education and that the education that Albertans can get here in our province will enable them to be world leaders.

The review will look at access and how we can make sure that there’s a space for every qualified Albertan who wants to advance their education and how we can inspire Albertans to want to advance their education. In the meantime, Budget 2005 takes some very solid steps towards ensuring Albertans can find the postsecondary programs they want right here in their home province. As an- nounced in the Premier’s address in February, we’re adding 60,000 additional student spaces by 2020. That’s 15,000 in the next three years, 30,000 over six years, and 60, 000 over 15 years.

These spaces will be in universities and colleges and technical institutes, yes, but they’ll also be in apprenticeships, in literacy, and in lifelong learning. Mr. Chairman, I can’t emphasize enough that postsecondary education, or advanced education, is not just about the universities and colleges in this province. It’s about every Albertan, wherever they’re located in the province, being able to advance their education. It’s about those Albertans who need to move to literacy as much as it is about those Albertans who want to move past the PhD.

As I mentioned, we’re putting $90 million in the access growth fund over three years to help achieve our targets. The government is also putting $469 million into the postsecondary capital projects over the next three years, and $17.6 million will be available in 2005-2006 to support a network of 180 community-based groups that provide access to programs such as family and adult literacy, English as a Second Language, and rural community programs in more than 80 communities across this province. Mr.

Chairman, I had the opportunity to speak to the community learning councils annual meeting and conference on Wednesday, just before the budget came down, in Calgary. There were probably 120 people there representing these 80 communities, many of them volunteers, many of them helping to make programs of adult learning available to Albertans in their communities. I want, again, to thank those volunteers and the people who work in that area because they help Albertans advance their potential. We’re also working very strongly to increase access in apprentice- ship and industry training.

It’s a viable career choice for Albertans, helping Albertans meet the demand for skilled labour. Can’t say it often enough, Mr. Chairman: a career in the trades, a career in the technology areas, in industry is a very, very viable career in this province and across the world. It’s an area that we have to value as an advanced education because it is truly an advanced education. 3:10 Truly, there are very, very few places that you can work now that you don’t need to have some form of advancement. I’ve said before even in the area of trucking, not to diminish that.

That’s a very good career for those who want to do it, whose passion it is to drive. But if you want to be a truck driver, you need to know GPS technology, border crossing technology. You need to have skills and abilities. In 2005-2006 there’ll be a $5.7 million increase for apprenticeship training, bringing the total fundi ng to $22.5 million. This funding will increase spaces in trades training to meet industry demands. We want to also make sure, Mr. Chairman, that there are spaces in a high-quality postsecondary system at a cost that is affordable.

We want to ensure that finances are not a barrier to a student getting an education. We’re starting by addressing immediate concerns with a one-time $43 million payment to postsecondary institutions to cover tuition fee increases this year. Scholarships, bursaries, and grants are a key to the student finance system, and we’re increasing funding for scholarships, bursaries, and grants to students by $7.5 million, to $72 million this year.

Also in 2005-2006 about 30,000 students will receive scholarships, including the new Lois Hole humanities and social sciences scholarship, that will provide $5,000 to four postsecondary students. Alberta’s student finance system is a leader in the country, and this government expects to disburse $105 million in student loans in 2005-2006. Mr.

Chairman, $105 million in student loans, but you add to that the $32 million in learner assistance bursaries, $48 million in maintenance grants and special-needs bursaries and the Alberta opportunity bursaries, and $23 million in heritage scholar- ships, for a total of about $200 million that is being provided to Alberta students from resources in this province and an additional $270 million approximately that is managed by our learner assis- tance branch to provide over $480 million to Alberta’s students. That is a significant amount of money.

The combined federal/provincial yearly student loan limit is increasing to $12,140 in recognition of increased costs for students. That includes a 2 per cent living allowance increase. Lifetime loan limits for programs of study will increase by $10,000 for those programs that have not recently been adjusted. Undergraduate programs of study will go from $40,000 to $50,000. Masters programs will go from $50,000 to $60,000. Alberta is also working to make sure that if a student must carry debt after graduation, the bulk of that is not Alberta debt.

That’s where the Alberta student loan relief benefit that I mentioned comes in. In 2005-2006 this program will reduce the debt of students in their first year of study by about $32 million. I’m pleased to say that according to the most recent national graduate survey, average university undergraduate debt in Alberta is the lowest in Canada, excluding Quebec. Quebec operates on a different type of system. It opts out of the federal finance system. Across the country, as I said, it’s the national graduate survey which shows Alberta student loan debt the lowest in Canada.

On average, Alberta graduates at all postsecondary levels have among the lowest debt, both provincial and federal, at graduation in the country. Of course, in addition to graduating with among the lowest net debt in the country, Alberta’s strong economy and the lower cost of living allows graduates to pay off their debt more quickly than those in other provinces. These are some of the ways that we’re working to help our postsecondary students, and we’re going to continue to find ways to ensure that finances, costs are not a barrier.

Of course, affordability is a key part of the postsecondary review that we’ve promised this year. We’re doing a lot of great things. We’re continuing to find ways to be better, to do more, and to find innovations in the postsecondary system. Final key strategy in the Alberta education business plan has to do with quality and innovation in advanced education. We want to continue to move forward to find newer and better ways of providing

April 19, 2005 Alberta Hansard 861 world-class postsecondary education. The budget includes a $12.8 million performance program to reward institutions for meeting their performance targets in terms of responsiveness, accessibility, affordability, and research. The performance envelope is something that government has provided in the past as a one-time funding item. Now we recognize this as a key to the quality of systems, so we’re including it as a line item in the budget. The government is also making strides in the area of apprentice- ship with key innovations.

We’re increasing the availability of distance and mobile delivery of apprenticeship technical training, as requested by industry. For example, in the steam-fitter/pipe fitter trade we’re working with the college system and industry to provide apprenticeship technical training at the camps in the Fort McMurray area where the oil sands workers are staying. We’re also implementing ATOMS, the apprenticeship trade and occupation management system, which will give clients and stakeholders access to apprenticeship and industry training services 24 hours a day seven days a week.

The service can be used to register employers and apprentices, update employee information, register for training, pay fees. These initiatives will help to ensure that the apprenticeship system is even better and more responsive to students’ needs in the future. Mr. Chairman, this government has a plan for postsecondary education, and it’s a plan we’re working on in partnership with all advanced education stakeholders. This budget is part of an overall plan that melds the government’s fiscal plan with its strategic plan for the future of the province.

We’re moving in new directions every day, and Advanced Education’s budget and business plan is just a part of movement towards truly leading and learning, develop- ing Alberta as a learning society. Mr. Chairman, I’ve said it in the House before: Alberta has a great postsecondary system. We’ve built a solid foundation to ensure continued and future success. Our fiscal plan and our strategic plan will take it to the next level and position our system on the leading edge of advanced education anywhere in the world.

The government will continue to work with all stakeholders in the system not only to determine our postsecondaries’ immediate needs but to look forward to what postsecondary education in Alberta should aspire to; in short, to ensure that Alberta as a learning society makes Alberta the best place to live, work, and visit, unleashes innovation, ensures that we’re leading in learning, and allows all Albertans to be able to compete in a global economy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Chair: The hon. Member for Calgary-Currie. Mr. Taylor: Thank you, Mr.

Chairman, and my thanks to the minister as well for that overview of the estimates for the Advanced Education ministry within Budget 2005. I think there are many good ideas in the works and many ideas that could be good, could be great and, hopefully, will be someday when they’re properly funded. I think there are some ideas that are being held back from greatness by the level of funding being allocated to them. Mr.

Chairman, the minister said yesterday in question period that today I would “have all the opportunity in the world to explore and ask extensive and detailed questions” and maybe even get a lesson, if I wish, “in how the student loan system works and how remission works.” So I will get to those que stions, and I look forward to the answers.

I want to start out, though, just with a very brief quote from one of a number of e-mails that I’ve received over the last little while having to do with people’s thoughts, stakeholders’ thoughts on what would constitute an ideal provincial budget for postsecondary education in the province of Alberta, their budget wish list, if you will. This comes from an instructor at NAIT who says: Increased accessibility is a wonderful goal. However there is a “serious” need to increase base funding . . . to institutions to repair the damage done by years of neglect.

So it is not the total monies that go to post secondary education . . . it is how the funding is directed and the strings that are attached. With those comments in mind, some questions.

I’d like to start around the area of base operating grant increases if I could because, as the minister knows and, I think, as the minister has probably been told by a number of the same stakeholders that I have spoken to over the last several months, the fundamental problems in the advanced education system in the province of Alberta, as great a system as it is and as great as it aspires to be, really need to be addressed by a substantial increase to base operating grants. Institutions’ operating costs are going up by about 6 per cent a year.

Rather than improving the situation, this increase apparently just keeps them treading water. They’re still behind where they were in real dollar per student terms back in ’92-93, before cuts to postsecondary education began. But I wonder if the minister could redo the math for me, if he would, please. He talks about a total increase over three years of $205 million, or a little in excess of 18 per cent. That’s in the three- year business plan, and of course years 2 and 3 of the business plan are subject to potentially major revision once we get to writing the actual budget for those years.

In the budget per se for 2005-2006 he commits to a base operating grant of $81 million. Now, Mr. Chairman, $205 million minus $81 million is $124 million, and divided by two, that’s $62 million a year. So it appears that there is some fairly significant front loading of the increase in base operating grants. It appears that the percentage increase in year 2 and year 3 will not keep up with what’s being done this year. 3:20 By my calculation we’re actually doing about a 7.2 per cent increase this year, so my questi on to the minister is: why has he taken this approach? Why not an across-the-board 6 and 6 and 6?

Even better, why not 8 and 8 and 8? That would perhaps get us closer to actually getting our colleges and universities the money that they need to function properly over the course of the next three years. Also, what I don’t see addressed in here – I’m not sure, and perhaps the minister can enlighten me on this: where it would be introduced, whether it would be introduced within a budget frame- work or within legislation – is a gap in base operating funding between institutions in the province, between the city of Edmonton and the city of Calgary.

I think that needs to be addressed possibly via a base instructional unit approach, as they use in Ontario, and I wonder if the minister would comment on that possibly. Now, program spending increases. The minister, yes, did say that program expenses over the next three years, should we stick to the business plan, will increase by $433 million, or almost 30 per cent, to reach $1.9 billion cumulatively, but most importantly we’re here to talk about what will happen in this coming fiscal year. There program expenses will increase by $196 million, but capital spending – and again I want to focus on this year.

The minister rightly pointed out that over the next three years of the business plan, if we stick to it, we’ll increase capital spending in postsecondary education institutions by in excess of $400 million, but this year capital spending is apparently being cut by $117 million. Now, that’s my reading of it. I wonder first of all if the minister agrees with my

interpretation, and if he does agree that my interpre- tation is correct, I’d like to know why he’s done it this way. If he disagrees with my

interpretation, I’d like an explanation of how

Alberta Hansard April 19, 2005862 things are really working because no matter how I crunch the numbers, it looks as though we have sliced capital spending for this year from last by $117 million. So if we cut on the capital side by $117 million and we add on the program side by $196 million, we’re really only ahead by about $79 million for the fiscal year, and that’s considerably less bang delivered by considerably fewer bucks than it appears on the surface. If the minister could answer this, please: what would be the impact of this on the access plans to add 15, 000 spaces by 2008?

Perhaps the answer is in year 2 or year 3 of the business plan; I don’t know. I refer back to a study done by and a request made by Campus Calgary, which is the coalition of the five postsecondary institutions in the city of Calgary, in which they’ve said that there is a need for almost 20,000 spaces in Calgary alone. They attached a cost figure of that of $1 billion, and that, yes, would have been over five years. We compare that to this ministry’s plans to increase access by 15,000 spaces province-wide over the next three years for, more or less, $433 billion.

So I guess my question there to the minister – there are a number of questions. What is the plan? How will the increase in spaces be f unded by his ministry? Does the department have a full base of understanding of supply versus demand of students regionally; the 30 per cent gap in spaces between Calgary and Edmonton again? Mount Royal College, as I understand it, continues to operate with 30 per cent unused capacity. If Mount Royal College was, in fact, a high school, under this government’s utilization formula it might be skirting the danger of having to close because it has too much unused space.

My understanding is that Mount Royal continues to operate with 30 per cent unused capacity while turning away large numbers of students every year because it has yet to get extra money for additional instructors to fill the classrooms that it added a couple of years ago with capital funding from this government. So capital funding is obviously very important, yet if you don’t follow it with appropriate operational funding, you end up with unused classroom space. Given the space crunch in so many other institutions, it’s a bit of an anomaly.

On the access growth fund and the increases to that, $90 million over the next three years, I wonder if the minister can share with us some details of enrolment growth, expanded apprenticeship training capacity. How many of these spaces are real spaces? How many are virtual spaces? How far will the money go? I’d also like him to address, if he would, Mr. Chairman, the question: why funding envelopes? I mean, the system forces universities to try and find ways to move money that’s in the funding envelopes out of funding envelopes to pay for ongoing programs and other expenses that aren’t really being met.

I got this from an instructor at SAIT who said that one-off funding, which refers essentially to envelope funding, is no substitute for ongoing, reliable funding. Either the opportunity to use the money is lost, given the size of many of these projects and the lack of time to do proper planning and consultation before you have to spend the money, or more likely, it’s not spent in the best way possible. He made the note in an e-mail to me that neither is acceptable to him as a taxpayer. So I think that’s a good question that deserves an answer.

Still on the access issue, the Alberta Council on Admissions and Transfer, a question which, I hope, is not too far off topic. I think it relates here. If it doesn’t, I am sure the minister will be pleased to tell me that it does not. Again using Mount Royal College just as an example, 50 per cent of Mount Royal students are in university transfer programs, but to this day there is no guarantee of acceptance to the University of Calgary in third year.

Even if all other things are equal, if the Mount Royal student and the University of Calgary student have the same marks coming out of second year, no guarantee that the Mount Royal student will be accepted in third year. That is an access issue. On student loans. You’ve got $105 million in student loan disbursements and $35 million allocated to the loan remission program, so I come back to my question in question period yester- day.

I would love and welcome and encourage clarification from the minister of the claim that virtually all the money that’s provided by the provincial Students Finance Board from Alberta coffers gets remitted. I would also like to remind the minister of my request yesterday in question period for documentation to support the claim that Alberta students end up with the lowest debt of any students across the country. We found out today that, in fact, that’s the lowest for students across the country in any province except Quebec.

Of course, given events in Ottawa and the fallout from that, one doesn’t know from one hour to the next, but the last time I checked, Quebec was still a part of Canada. The annual loan maximum. It was interesting and encouraging to me and I’m sure to a lot of students in this province to hear that among other adjustments to the student loan program there’s a 2 per cent increase in living allowance, but I wonder if the minister could provide on a sort of – I know this is very, very difficult to do on an average basis, and I’m not sure whether I should ask for this by sector or by city or how.

In f act, I’m going to leave it up to the minister to decide how to answer this question. Could he provide us with some information, some more or less typical information, for a university student in the province of Alberta, which certainly means that they go to school in either one of two big cities or in the city of Lethbridge unless they’re going to Athabasca? If that student requires the maximum student loan, how much money is left over for that student to live on after university tuition and residence fees have been paid?

I’d like to know about that. 3:30 I’d also like to know a little more about the tuition rebate, of course, which is a one-time $43 million expense. What happens next year after the one time is over? Many concerns from many people who have e-mailed me that it’s going to mean, as Christine Johns, vice-president external of the Graduate Students’ Association of the University of Calgary, said: At the University of Calgary, tuition is still increasing to the maximum allowable amount.

If nothing is to be done, in two years time students could be experiencing close to a 12% increase in one year . . . in order for Universities to even begin to think about not raising tuition to the maximum allowable level, [the university] needs a dramatic increase to base operating grants. Some comment there. Knowing full well that the affordability review is coming, I wonder if we could get in advance of the review a little more detail of what the minister is thinking. Finally, the access to the future fund and the $250 million which is being put in this year.

I suppose $250 million is nothing to ever sneeze at except that it seems like such a shadow of the promise that was held out when the $3 billion cap was mentioned in the bill itself. Where is the commitment beyond the minister’s stated good intention and that of the Premier, who himself is one of these days or months or years going to step down, to put more of the $250 million in? There is no commitment to do that in this budget that I can find. Maybe the minister can find it for me. You know, the budgeted fund income for investment purposes in ’06-07 and again in ’07-08 is esse ntially $11 million.

It goes up a little bit, you know, in ’07-08 because it’s made a little interest on the interest, I guess, but again there’s no more principal for it to be earning income on.

April 19, 2005 Alberta Hansard 863 Since an endowment fund is supposed to produce pro ceeds to invest in, in this case, excellen ce in postsecondary education, this works out to an amount for investment in excellence that is equiva- lent to $61 per student, or 16 cents per student per day, the equiva- lent of said student taking it upon himself or herself to return three empty pop or beer cans to the bottle depot each and every day, and at least the student knows that the bottle depot is still going to be around next year.

So I w onder if I could get the minister to com- ment on future plans to grow this fund much more quickly, much more significantly, and in much more of a perpetual fashion than he has committed to thus far. On that note, I will take my seat. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. The Chair: The hon. minister. Mr. Hancock: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A number of good questions there. I hope I can read my writing, which is not always the easiest thing to do.

Stakeholder thoughts; increasing across the board; serious need to increase base funding; how funding is determined; why 6/6/6 and not 8/8/8; where do you find the 6? The bottom line is that this budget provides for an increase in base operating funds of 6 per cent per year this year and in each of the next two. That’s a promise. It ’s printed in the line. You’ll very seldom find that these lines go down year over year unless some- thing catastrophic happens. What you tend to find is that they go up.

The interesting thing is that institutions and many others in the province have asked for sustainable funding and have asked to know year over year what their funding is going to be. Well, the reality is that they have known year over year what their funding was going to be. They just didn’t like the level of it. In fact, the year over year was 2 per cent, and that wasn’t good enough. They told us so, and they were right. So it’s moved to 6 per cent. They were expecting maybe 4 per cent.

I can tell you that the boards and the presidents that I’ve talked to are very, very happy with the level of base funding increase, both the amount this year and the amount committed over the three years. The 6 per cent is more than their inflation. It helps to cover the costs of unfunded students. It helps to cover some of the things that they’ve been scrambling on. They’ve asked, actually, that we do the funding in this way, that we look at increasing the base funding on an appropriate, sustainable, year-over-year level, and that’s what we’ve done.

We’ve done it at a level which is more than what they were expecting, more than what they were asking for. Indeed, in the global package it basically meets what the universities indicated in a letter to me they would like to have and would allow them to make some commitments with respect to access, which is what we wanted to go for. Now, the other question that the member asked relative to funding and distributing base funding is the so-called gap or the allocation between institutions or between geographic regions. Of course, this is one of the strange things that has come forward over the last couple of years.

People think that there ought to be a balance, as though a student were a student were a student, and that you can take a look at an institution and average the dollars over the number of students and say that some ins titutions are being shortchanged because their per-student average is lower than somebody else’s per- student average. Of course, that’s just a wrong way of looking at the world. Institutions have different students and different programs, and some of those programs have higher or lower expenses, so you have to fund on an appropriate basis.

The good news for the hon. member is that we’re doing a funding review this year. We’ve promised every five years to do a funding review. There’s a funding review being done this year. If there are inordinate gaps in the way funding is allocated to institutions, that will be resolved. Every stakeholder, every institution will have the opportunity to comment on it, to participate in that review, and to ensure that their institution is fairly heard and fairly measured against what happens across the system. We have to always look at these things, and in fact it’s our role.

In Advanced Education we don’t actually deliver education. We provide the framework for the system and make sure that there’s a system context and overall learning policy for the province, a way in which we can look at Alberta as a learning society. We work with the institutions and the community learning councils and the others to make sure that educational opportunities are there, that they’re accessible, affordable, and equal. So when we talk about the gaps, first of all, one has to be careful about saying that there are more spaces in this place than there are in that place.

I hesitate to say Calgary and Edmonton because I don’t want to get into parochial discussions about whether Calgary is doing better or whether Edmonton is doing better. The fact of the matter is that they’re different places. They serve different populations, different geographic regions, and you can’t measure it that way with any real sense of purpose. What we really need to do is to make sure that Alberta students have a place to go, an appropriate place for them to advance through education, and, if it’s not here, that they have opportunities outside the province and can maximize their human potential.

That’s what it’s about. It’s not really about whether there are more spaces in Calgary or more spaces in Edmonton or those sorts of things. I would ask the hon. member to take the broader view and to look at the system as a whole as to how we can make sure, working together, working collaboratively with the system, that we have the best system and we have an opportunity for every student that wants to go. Capital spending, the whole mix of capital spending.

I mean, when we get into this question of whether there are 15,000 spaces or 30,000 spaces, a lot of people tend to think: well, where are these students going to sit? Well, we have to build the 21st century campuses, the 21st century system, not the 20th century or, heaven forbid, the 19th century system. It’s not about a new chair for every one of those 15,000 new spaces. It’s about making sure that there’s access, that there’s a place. That’s going to be partly dealt with by e-learning opportunities.

It’s going to be partly dealt with by more apprenticeship spaces, partly dealt with by delivering mobile classrooms, partly dealt with by having courses offered at the campsite in Fort McMurray so that it’s accessible to the workers there when they’re off shift and able to take the learning side. It’s about making sure that there’s an opportunity in a small community to get ESL if that’s what the need is or to have access to literacy programs if that’s what the need is or a teacher training program or a nursing assistant program or a nursing program.

You see opportunities where, for example, the University of Alberta has entered into arrangements with Blue Quill so that they had the first graduating class off campus of teachers from Blue Quill up in the St. Paul area. Those are the types of things we’re looking at. 3:40 It’s not about building two new universities. I mean, you talk about 60,000 new students, and you visualize it in the context of that meaning the size of two new universities. But you’re not talking about actually building two new universities; you’re talking about making sure that the spaces and the places are available.

If you actually looked at the capital needs across the province, most of that

Alberta Hansard April 19, 2005864 capital need is not in classroom space. Most of that capital need – and there is capital need – is in labs, is in space for academic staff. It’s not the classroom space that’s really in a crunch. In fact, if you had more instructors, you probably could utilize the classroom space much better. The hon. member mentions Mount Royal College and the 2,500 spaces that are available. He expressed it as 30 per cent of the available space in Mount Royal College. Yes, we’ve got to take up that space.

We’ve got to make sure that that space is appropriately used, as we do right across the system. So the single-point-of-entry process that we’ve promised in Bill 1, where people can apply online and have their application apply to all of the appropriate colleges or universities or technical institutes that they want to go to, will help us to make sure that we make the maximum use of the space. Also, the funding that’s available will fund places in those institutions that if they have more space and more opportunity to offer courses and they have the demand, we can provide the funding to ensure that that happens.

Campus Calgary. Yes. In the process I would caution the hon. member with respect to the use of the number of 20,000 sp aces, although over five years that may be an appropriate projection. There’s been a lot of talk, particularly in Calgary, about the lack of access, and there’s a significant am ount of double, triple, and quadruple accounting in those numbers. There is a need for more spaces – there’s no question a bout that – and this budget and this three-year business plan will address that in spades.

But the global number that’s been reported across Calgary in the media about the tens of thousands of spaces that are needed right now to accommo- date students is not a reality. The reality is that it’s probably closer to 2,000 or 2,500 spaces across the province of immediate demand that needs take-up, and that can be accommodated, I believe, within the resources that we’ve talked about.

We addressed the question of Mount Royal and its change of status, but Mount Royal can of course address space issues earlier on without the n ecessity of addressing the university issue, without impacting the decision on the university issue, and indeed can address the transferability issue by sitting down and working with other institutions in the system.

There’s no good reason why an agreement can’t be made between Mount Royal and the University of Calgary or Mount Royal and Athabasca University – in fact, they have an agreement with Athabasca University – so that there can be an automatic transfer, automatic entrance if students achieve a certain level of standard. Of course, we don’t tell the universities or the colleges what their admission requirements are, but given the admission requirements that they had, they certainly can work out an arrangement.

There is no good reason why Mount Royal students in a transfer program would not be able to know that there’s a place for them if they successfully complete their transfer program. There is no good reason for that, and I will be working as a mediator or an arbitrator or in whatever type of process I need to to bring the system together so that there are no dead ends for anybody in the system. It’s a ladder approach: people can take a course in one area and move to the next area.

We have with the Council on Admissions and Transfer one of the jewels of the system across this country, indeed in North America, in terms of ensuring that people know where one course will take them into a next course or one program will take them into a next course. We need to do more on that because we ought to be in a position where every bit of learning that you do enables you to do the next bit of learning. That’s certainly one of the agenda items for me. Why funding envelopes? Well, purely and simply i

Document details

Collection	Alberta — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20050419
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	L26 S1 20050419 1330 01 han.pdf
Language	en
Format	json
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	d63ccebf75d12f12645845037736175de634c01d

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