Manitoba Hansard — 8 May 2024 (Sitting 53, 43rd Legislature, 1st Session)

43-1-53

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session – Forty-Third Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Tom Lindsey Speaker Vol. LXXVIII No. 53 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, May 8, 2024 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Third Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello, Hon. Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma, Hon. Union Station NDP BALCAEN, Wayne Brandon West PC BEREZA, Jeff Portage la Prairie PC BLASHKO, Tyler Lagimodière NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian, Hon. Keewatinook NDP BYRAM, Jodie Agassiz PC CABLE, Renée, Hon. Southdale NDP CHEN, Jennifer Fort Richmond NDP COOK, Kathleen Roblin PC CROSS, Billie Seine River NDP DELA CRUZ, Jelynn Radisson NDP DEVGAN, JD McPhillips NDP EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni, Hon. St.

Johns NDP GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC HIEBERT, Carrie Morden-Winkler PC JACKSON, Grant Spruce Woods PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake-Gimli PC KENNEDY, Nellie Assiniboia NDP KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP KING, Trevor Lakeside PC KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Dauphin NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom, Hon. Flin Flon NDP LOISELLE, Robert St. Boniface NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya, Hon. Notre Dame NDP MOROZ, Mike River Heights NDP MOSES, Jamie, Hon. St.

Vital NDP MOYES, Mike Riel NDP NARTH, Konrad La Vérendrye PC NAYLOR, Lisa, Hon. Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC OXENHAM, Logan Kirkfield Park NDP PANKRATZ, David Waverley NDP PERCHOTTE, Richard Selkirk PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP SALA, Adrien, Hon. St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHMIDT, Tracy, Hon. Rossmere NDP SCHOTT, Rachelle Kildonan-River East NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SIMARD, Glen, Hon. Brandon East NDP SMITH, Bernadette, Hon.

Point Douglas NDP STONE, Lauren Midland PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt, Hon. Concordia NDP WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC Vacant Tuxedo

1677 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, May 8, 2024 The House met at 1:30 p.m. The Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom, know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the we lfare of all our people. Amen.

We acknowledge that we are gathered on Treaty 1 territory and that Manitoba is located on the treaty territories and ancestral lands of the Anishinaabeg, Anishininewuk, Dakota Oyate, Denesuline and Nehethowuk nations. We acknowledge Manitoba is located on the Homeland of the Red River Métis. We acknowledge northern Manitoba includes lands that were and are the ancestral lands of the Inuit. We respect the spirit and intent of treaties and treaty making and remain committed to working in partnership with First Nations, Inuit and Métis people in the spirit of truth, reconciliation and collaboration.

Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS The Speaker: Introduction of bills? Committee reports? Tabling of reports? MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS National Nursing Week Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): As Minister for Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care, and as a registered psychiatric nurse, I am thrilled to acknowledge National Nursing Week and Indigenous Nurses Day. Nurses are the backbone of our health-care system, and this week, National Nursing Week, we recognize them for the exceptional work they've taken on. This year's theme is Changing Lives. Shaping Tomorrow.

And I couldn't think of a better theme. Nurses care for us during our life's most difficult and vulnerable moments in health, and they do this work with compassion and respect. They work tire - lessly to ensure our com munities have the best care possible. Patients put their trust in nurses. Families seek comfort from nurses. They are experts on the front lines of our health-care system across Manitoba. The care that they provide, their innovative research and the solutions they offer are indeed life changing.

It wouldn't be honest f or me to stand here today and say that being a nurse in Manitoba the past several years hasn't been trying. Years of job insecurity, disrespect and cuts have resulted in staffing shortages, little work-life balance and exhaustion. I can't thank nurses enough for continuing to change lives despite these circumstances, and I want all nurses to know, as I've said to you at many of our listening tour stops, help is on the way. Which brings me to the second part of this year's theme: Shaping Tomorrow. We need to change the culture in health care.

I truly believe that addressing culture change is one of the most important steps toward making our health-care system an attractive place to work again. The first step in changing culture is rebuilding trust: rebuilding trust among nurses and health- care workers. This why the Premier (Mr. Kinew) and I have been on a listening tour the past seven months. We've heard some difficult stories from folks on the front lines, and we've also heard some incredible solutions. We know that solutions are found directly at the bedside.

We also know that to reduce the burden of nurses– that nurses are carrying, we had to invest, and that's why Budget 2024 allocates $310 million to retention, recruitment and training to address these staffing short- ages. And our plan to hire 1,000 health- care workers this year, including 210 nurses, will help ease the heavy workloads that nurses consistently shoulder. We're increasing nurse training seats across the province. We've increased funding to the nursing float pool to give nurses more flexibility.

And as I told a room full of hundreds of nurses just yesterday, there is more work to do and our government is committed to doing that work together Today, we also recognize Indigenous Nurses Day. Indigenous nurses play a central role in health care, providing culturally sensitive care and advocacy for equity, which are vital components in changing the culture in health care. Indigenous nurses save lives.

1678 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 8, 2024 I want to take this moment to recognize Ann Thomas Callahan, one of the first Indigenous graduates of the Winnipeg General Hospital's nursing school. She unfortunately passed away last year at the age of 87, but it's important to recognize that Ann was a trail - blazer who paved the way for a more equitable, inclusive and diverse health-care system here in Manitoba. And she paved the way for someone I want to take a moment to also recognize: Tamra Keeper, who is joining us here today in the gallery, Tamra Keeper, who the Premier (Mr.

Kinew) and I stood with, just a year and a half ago in the Rotunda of this building, to advocate for barriers to be eliminated for her to prac- tise here in Manitoba. Congratulations, Tamra. Congratulations on achieving that accomplishment and thank you for your work, working as an off -reserve case manager for Jordan's Principle in your community. Well done, well done. Our health-care system is not a place where all people have always seen themselves reflected or felt welcomed.

But when our health- care front lines honour and reflect connection, community, tradition and culture, we can start to rebuild trust and chart a true path toward reconciliation. Representation matters, which is why we're working with Ka Ni Kanichihk; Aboriginal Health and Wellness to provide culturally appropriate health care. We're also working with col- leges to remove barriers for First Nations, Métis and Inuit to join the front lines. To the Indigenous nurses in the gallery today, I want to thank you because you are at the forefront of those efforts, and I know that it's not easy.

It's why we're committed to supporting you, your colleagues so that you can provide the best care possible to Manitobans. And to all nurses across Manitoba, thank you for choosing this calling, for continuing to provide care for our communities. I am so excited to continue work- ing with you. I'm so excited to continue to do the work to change lives and shape the future of health care together. Happy national nurses week. Happy Indigenous Nurses Day. Mrs. Kathleen Cook (Roblin): I am pleased to rise today in commemoration of National Nursing Week, and I'd also like to welcome Ms.

Keeper and other Indigenous nurses to the Legislature today. Welcome here. And this is an important week. National Nursing Week takes p lace every year in the lead -up to the birthday of Florence Nightingale, who was, of course, the pioneer in the nursing profession. And this year's theme is Changing Lives and Shaping Tomorrow, which is in recognition of all that nurses do in our communities and the impacts that they have on individuals and in our health-care system. The role nurses play in people's lives is incredibly im - pactful.

They provide compassion in times when it is needed most and advocate for their patients to ensure they are getting quality care. * (13:40) I will always remember being a new mom at home, absolutely lost with a set of newborn twins, and the public health nurse coming to my home and helping me with breastfeeding and just assuring me that it was going to be okay and I was doing a good job at a time when I felt incredibly vulnerable, and I'll always be grateful for that. Nurses are leaders, mentors and educators in our communities, and are constantly inspiring the next gen- eration of future nurses.

And during this special week, we also recog nize Indigenous Nurses Day, high - lighting the achieve ments of Canada's First Nations, Inuit and Métis nurses, recog nizing their invaluable work in improving the health and well -being of Canadians. We also recog nize Int ernational Nurses Day, which is coming up this Sunday on May 12. Nurses have always gone above and beyond the call of the duty, putting their own health and safety on the line to care for those in need, especially during the COVID-19 pandemic. And I als o want to take a moment to recog nize nurses' families.

I know it can be hard to share your family member with Manitobans in the way that you do. It's not an easy profession for families. So I want to thank them for the sacrifices they make for all Manitobans as well. And in closing, I want to sincerely thank each and every nurse working in Manitoba. Thank you for your dedication to Manitobans' well -being, to your com - munities. Thank you for taking care of us when we need it the most. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): I ask for leave to respond to the minister's statement.

May 8, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1679 The Speaker: Does the member for Tyndall Park (MLA Lamoureux) have leave? [Agreed] MLA Lamoureux: I rise today to acknowl edge and celebrate National Nursing Week. National Nursing Week began on Monday, May 6, with Indigenous Nurses Day and will end on May 12 with International Nurses Day. This entire week recognizes the contributions and tremendous impact that all nurses have on individuals, communities and the future of health care.

Honourable Speaker, we know that despite the overwhelming volume of patients showing up at hos- pitals, the mandatory overtime, staff shortages, burn- out and lack of work-life balance, these heroic nurses remain on the front lines and continue to play a crucial role in directly impacting the lives of patients because their care, compassion and expertise, and it makes a huge difference in the health and well -being of all of their patients and our community at large.

Nurses are committed to learning and adapting at the forefront of health-care innovation, contributing to advancements in treatments and patient-care practices. Plus, they have a sig nificant role in shaping the next generation of health -care professionals through edu- cation and mentorship. So to all nurses and our guests here today, we want to extend our appre ciation for your dedi cation, your passion, your knowledge and your commitment. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. Introduction of Guests The Speaker: Before we proceed, I'd like to do some guest introductions.

We have with us in the public gallery today, members–excuse me. I'd like to draw attention of all honourable members to the public gallery, where we have with us today Liz Bone, Karen Perch Anderson, Caroline Chartrand, Kathleen North, Tamra Keeper, Kristy Muller, who are guests of the honour able member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara). On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you. Further, we have seated in the public gallery from Woodlawn School, 75 grade 4 students under direction of Simmy Gandhi. Honourable–and they're guests of the honourable member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen).

Further, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery, where we have with us today teachers and their grade 4 and 5 students from Tyndall Park school, who are guests of the honourable member for Tyndall Park. On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you here today. I would also draw attention to members–we have with us again today the Honourable Philip Lee, former Lieutenant Governor of Manitoba, along with his wife Anita Lee. On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you here today. One more guest to introduce.

We have, seated in the loge to the left, Marianne Cerilli, the former mem- ber for Radisson. Welcome. * * * The Speaker: We will now go to members' statements. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Vietnamese Women Association MLA Jennifer Chen (Fort Richmond): Honourable Speaker, as we celebrate Asian Heritage Month, I want to recognize a newly established women's organi - zation, the Vietnamese Women Association in Winnipeg, who join us in the gallery today.

The association celebrates diversity and the cultural identi ty of the Vietnamese community in Winnipeg while helping newcomers and Vietnamese Canadians find belong- ing in Manitoba. I want to thank their president, Kim Le, and the whole association for uplifting Vietnamese women and providing incredible service to them. When women work for women, there is no limit to what we can accomplish together.

I know women like Kim Le and the other members of the Vietnamese Women Association in Winnipeg spend innumerable hours helping women in the community address challenges, find support and form bonds that can only be described as sisterhood. The inspirational and confident women I've in- vited here today are showing the next generation of East and Southeast Asian women that they, too, can be leaders for their community. The importance of women's voices and their participation in all aspects of society help Manitoba grow as a strong and in- clusive province for everyone.

Thanks to organizations like the Vietnamese Women Association in Winnipeg, many women are finding

1680 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 8, 2024 friendship, recognition and identity in Winnipeg and across Manitoba. The Vietnamese Women Association in Winnipeg also helps push back against harmful stereotypes that we, as Asian women, face all too often, and proves that we are strong, resilient, organized and powerful women. I wish them all the best and look forward to seeing the amazing work they accomplish in the coming years. Cảm ơn [Thank you]. Please join me in thanking the association for their work in empowering women. I would like to add my guests' names to Hansard. Thank you, Honourable Speaker.

Renata Blaszczynska, Quynh Do, Lan Doan, Ton That Quang Hai, Sâm Hoàng, Kim Le, Tran Thi Vu Le, Vân Lê, Phượng Nguyen, Tuyết Nguyen, Vân Nguyễn, Thu Phạm, Vi Tran, Yenny Trinh, Anna Truong, Thành Truong Epic/Smile of St. Malo Mr. Konrad Narth (La Vérendrye): Thank you, Honourable Speaker, for the opportunity to recognize an outstanding organization in La Vérendrye. Honourable Speaker, 2024 marks the 50th anni - versary for Epic/Smile of St. Malo. Epic/Smile is a non -profit organization working with people with intellectual disabilities.

Not only do they offer employment for participants across the southeast, but also provide a place for them to live. The employment that Epic/Smile is able to pro- vide to their participants also provides a service to southeast Manitoba. The organization produces a number of different products like marking stakes for Manitoba Hydro, but its largest contribution and service would be in their recycling facility.

The Epic/Smile facility is the only recycling facility for much of southeast corner of Manitoba, leaving communities like Buffalo Point First Nation, Sprague, Piney and Vita with no other options to accept the communities' recycling products. Their tr emendous contribution to our corner of the province is done through 58 exceptional partici - pants. These are individuals that are truly proud of the work that they are able to do, knowing that producing recycled products contributes to a better future for everyone.

Outside of the participants Epic/Smile em- ploys another 70 to 75 people, making it one of the largest employers in the area. To celebrate their milestone anniversary, the organization will be hosting a day of celebration on June 14, which will include a fundraiser banquet. The goal of their fundraiser will be to purchase a van that gets participants to work reliably and safely everyday. If anyone is interested in seeing this exceptional facility, I suggest taking a road trip to St. Malo on June 14.

Please join me in recognizing their hard work and welcoming Danyka Hunnie, Jackie Prowse and Ashley Mayner, who we have with us in the gallery today. * (13:50) Donwood Manor Personal-Care Home Hon. Tracy Schmidt (Minister of Environment and Climate Change): Honourable Speaker, today I rise to honour the staff, volunteers and residents of Donwood Manor personal -care home. For decades, the vibrant community at the heart of Rossmere has worked to enrich and improve the lives of countless seniors in Manitoba.

With well over 200 residents in personal -care homes, assisted living and independent living arrange- ments, Donwood Manor works collaboratively with residents to find accommodations that honour each member's unique needs, routines and well-being. And that starts by truly respecting the care environment at seniors' homes. The Donwood Manor community knows that true seniors' care extends far beyond medical health care.

With a diverse array of health -care professionals, a full-time chaplain and close ties to numerous churches across Winnipeg, the Donwood Manor community works to sustain the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual well-being of every member. In recent years, the Donwood Manor community has taken on several gardening projects, including the construction of a new hydroponics facility where fresh vegetables and herbs are grown for the manor's kitchen.

Donwood Manor has established the Growing Together group, an intergenerational program be - tween seniors and River East Collegiate s tudents to grow plants and learn together while fostering im - portant community connections. Staff, volunteers and residents have not only found gardening to be an enjoyable community activity, but it

May 8, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1681 has helped catalyze conversations around sustain- ability, water, compositing, urban agriculture and many other environmental issues that matter to the Donwood Manor community. Recently, Donwood Manor celebrated 50 years of service to Winnipeg's northeast community. And for half a century, they have upheld the ir mission state - ment to advance care, dignity and respect for Manitoba seniors, and we congratulate them for that.

I want to thank the Donwood Manor staff, volun- teers, residents and families for all that they do to make Rossmere a wonderful community to live in and for their tireless contributions to seniors and elder care in our province. Thank you. Don and Brenda Piett Mr. Josh Guenter (Borderland): Honourable Speaker, I take this opportunity to highlight Don and Linda [phonetic] Piett, two valu ed members of the southeastern Manitoba community, who for 16 years owned and operated the Southeast Journal. In 2006, Don retired from the Inco refinery in Thompson and moved to Emerson.

The next year, Don and Linda [phonetic] bought the Southeast Journal, and for the next 16 years, they published the local paper. In Don's words, they tried to fill the paper with stories you wouldn't necessarily see elsewhere. Don and Linda [phonetic] made a decision that they didn't want to repeat news you could get on television or any mainstream paper but , rather, they focused on publishing stories that didn't make it to the media. The Southeast Journal sadly ceased dis tribution on–in December of 2023, a decision which Don and Linda [phonetic] explain was largely a financial one.

I want to thank Don and Linda [phonetic] Piett for your many years of attending local events, sharing local stories and perspectives and for publishing a paper that brought together the communities of Emerson, Letellier, Morris, Dominion City, Tolstoi and others. I wish you all the best as you look forward. Tyndall Park School MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Today I am joined by 43 grade 4s and 5s from Tyndall Park school. We just had a fun pizza lunch and came up with some thoughts and questions for this government.

Students are very interested and want to learn more about affordability, the cost of living and how taxes in our province work. One student shared how their parents keep talking about what they can and cannot afford, and this rippled into a big conversation about the importance of making financially smart decisions. A few of the students are wondering: Why are water bills so expensive? What can be done to bring down costs? How come food and gas is becoming more expensive? Why do we have so many bills; can they not all be consolidated? And why is there so much inflation?

Honourable Speaker, they also want to know if there is something they can do to help bring down costs. Further, the students shared with me how they have been saving their money for a few fun things, like Roblox and travel, but they are mostly investing their money, donating some of it and saving up for university and college, and buying things for their basic needs like haircuts, clothes and computers. And, Honourable Speaker, a cou ple of them have already started saving up for their first house. A few other topics that were raised include: Why do children have cellphones at such a young age?

What is this government doing to combat violence in schools? Why is the lunch program so expensive? And what is this government doing for pollution? Honourable Speaker, I want to thank the students and the teachers from Tyndall Park school. I look forward to asking their questions to our Premier (Mr. Kinew) later this afternoon about affordabil ity and taxes, and I ask that my colleagues join me in welcoming the students who have joined us here today. Thank you. ORAL QUESTIONS Fort Rouge Constituency Crime Rate in Premier's Riding Mr.

Wayne Ewasko (Leader of the Official Opposition): Welcome to all our guests in the gallery, and I look forward to the–we're asking the same ques- tions as the students are, to the Premier. Hopefully you'll get some answers this afternoon, Hon ourable Speaker. Honourable Speaker, the other day, the Premier, the MLA for Fort Rouge, openly yelled across the Chamber, asking for a certain question be asked by me. So today's the day, so I'm sure he's ready.

1682 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 8, 2024 A Starbucks in his constituency of Fort Rouge is closed due to escalating violence. Businesses are closing and people are afraid because of this Premier's inaction on crime not only in Manitoba, not only in the city of Winnipeg, but right in his own constituency. Why would the Premier not stand up for businesses in his com munity that he represents that, due to his inaction, are being forced to close? And I table the picture today, Honourable Speaker. Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): My mother lives in Osborne Village.

Nobody cares about the safety of seniors in the com munity more than I do. That's the Safeway that I go to. The members opposite want to throw stones. We used to have a Tim Hortons in the constituency as well; it closed under their watch because of similar issues. The issues which lead to safety challenges in our community are long standing and have causes that reach back through the generations. The good news is that there's a gov ernment here that's serious about taking action. We're working with law enforcement; we're work- ing with community.

We're working with folks who live in Osborne Village, as well as people across the province, to make Manitoba a safer one and one in which every child can reach their full potential and every person can live their life safely and to their fullest potential. The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Ewasko: Things are worse than ever, than they've ever been, and this Premier stands up and gives that type of answer. They're getting worse, according to the Osborne Village BIZ director.

And I quote: This is a case where I believe safety is the only thing, and that, to me, is why it's so alarming, and I hope it rings some alarm bells to the City and to the Province because this is a problem. End quote. She told this to CBC. I table the document today, Honourable Speaker. Is this Premier, the MLA for Fort Rouge, hearing the alarm bell coming from his very own constituency, yes or no? Mr.

Kinew: The alarm that has been raised for years by people in Osborne Village is that the PCs, when in government, ignored the issues of addiction, ignored the issues of homelessness and ignored the issues of intergenerational poverty, which, sadly, are all too visible in Osborne Village and many other constit - uencies across the province of Manitoba. I took immediate action by running for office on a plan to fix these issues in consultation with law en- forcement in the community.

I'm happy to report that we defeated the government of inaction who let these issues fester, and our team i s now investing in com - munity, law enforcement, education, a universal school nutrition program ac cessible to every student in the province and more to come. Of course, the SABE Peace Walkers initiative is something that I championed in opposi tion and was happy to help secure an extension of funding for, one among many steps we'll continue to take to keep Osborne Village safe. The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary question. Mr.

Ewasko: So, Honourable Speaker, he's not only not listening to the alarm bells or the questions or even the experts that are actually in his constituency sound- ing those alarm bells, violence has been escalating in the Premier's constituency and across Manitoba. * (14:00) There was an attack at the Burger King in his backyard, there was a triple stabbing at Shopper's Drug Mart in his front yard and there are stores closing their doors for good all around Fort Rouge. This is nothing new, just for Fort Rouge ; it's happening in other constituencies as well under this Premier's watch.

The backdrop for this public -safety crisis, of course, is reduced funding for justice initia - tives in Budget 2024. Will the Premier do anything to represent the people of the businesses of Fort Rouge, or can his con- stituents expect further neglect from their MIA MLA? Mr. Kinew: The member opposite, in posing the question, illustrates that these issues are long-standing. They were accelerated for seven and a half years because the PCs did nothing to address issues around addictions or public safety.

Through their time in office, they froze funding to municipalities, which led to cuts to police forces, including the one which used to be led by the member for Brandon West (Mr. Balcaen). Our government isn't here to point fingers; we're here to take action. We've taken immediate action to implement a comprehensive approach to public safety.

May 8, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1683 We're implementing a plan to end chronic homeless - ness in Manitoba over the next eight years. And we're investing in the future generations of this province so every child not only matters, but has a path to reaching their full potential. Young people under their watch had a pipeline to prison. Under the NDP gov ernment, they'll ha ve a pathway to post-secondary. Potential for Hog Barn Moratorium Environment Legislation MLA Jeff Bereza (Portage la Prairie): Honourable Speaker, the member for St.

Johns (MLA Fontaine) stated that the NDP would not reinstate the hog moratorium. It would, howev er, put the minds of 22,000 Manitobans at ease if the member for Fort Rouge stated today that he supported the comments of the member for–of–for St. Johns and commit to never putting in legislation that amounts to a moratorium on hog barns. Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): Yes, there's going to be no legislation like that. We're here to debate serious matters. We're here to bring forward a budget bill that will 'kay'–make fuel taxes more affordable for people in Manitoba. That's what the kids today asked about.

We got a budget bill here today that is going to make home ownership more affordable for people in Manitoba. We've got a budget bill that is going to put tools into the hands of working people to get a higher wage. They come up with questions which they already know the answer to, only so that they can delay their way through question period long enough to delay bill debate later on in the afternoon.

We know that they were sent to the opposi tion benches for a reason, but could they please do a better job in putting on a show for the people of Manitoba that they might even enter tain some serious matters and bring them to the floor of the Legislature. The Speaker: The honourable member for Portage la Prairie, on a supplementary question. MLA Bereza: Honourable Speaker, I bring these ques- tions today from the many, many agriculture producers in the province. When the slippery slope to the NDP hog moratorium began, it was through seemingly innocuous legislation from the minister of Conservation.

Under the guise of protecting waterways, they effectively banned hog barns. The Minister of Environment and climate has made comments about strengthening the environ- mental protections and protecting waterways, and in light of recent Winnipeg events, t hat seems to be, at least at face value, prudent. So my question is very simple, and yes or no will suffice: Will these new environmental regulations result in a de facto hog barn moratorium? Mr. Kinew: The answer to that question is clearly no, and I'l l go a step further and I'll offer some free collegial advice to the member opposite.

If he wants to stake a–take a stand for pork pro- ducers in Manitoba, he should weigh in on the issue of country-of-origin labelling. This is a major chal- lenge potentially on the horizon for folks in the industry. Our Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Kostyshyn) has led important initiatives on this, as well as the Minister for Economic Development.

We recently took a delegation to the United States of America where peo ple were proud and happy to partner with the agriculture industry here in Manitoba, but there are these legitimate trade irritants which are potentially standing in the way of future economic opportunity. If the member wants to come here and engage in substantive debate, put the ear to the ground and bring forward the real issues that pork producers are asking about. The Speaker: The honourable–[interjection] Order, please. The member has to wait until I recognize him. Budget Implementation Legislation Request to Call Bill 37 to Committee Mr.

Obby Khan (Fort Whyte): If you fail to plan, you plan to fail. This should be the motto for this failed NDP Gov ernment House Leader (MLA Fontaine), because she was too busy travelling to New York and missed important deadlines. This NDP gov ernment has had seven months to introduce legislation to ensure that it was debated in this Chamber, the public had a chance to present at committee and a vote would still happen.

Well, today is May 8, the deadline came and went and due to this terrible planning by this failed NDP Gov ernment House Leader, the NDP government is now removing the rights of Manitobans to come speak to each bill. When I asked the Minister of Finance if he would allow the public to come speak, he flat out said no, he would not.

1684 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 8, 2024 Why does this Premier (Mr. Kinew) think it's okay to remove the voices of Manitobans and push through entire bills without allowing Manitobans their democratic rights? Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister of Finance): We will not apologize for delivering on the commit ments we were sent to this Legislature to deliver on. For years–for years–Manitobans had a gov ern- ment that cut health care, that cut edu cation, that cut child care, cut in all aspects of government. They now have a gov ernment that's actually here to deliver for them, right?

This bill allows us to deliver on the elements within our budget, which will help us to fix health care, make life more affordable in Manitoba. We will not apologize for that important work. It's going to help us to do exactly what Manitobans sent us here to do, which is to make life better after seven years of challenges under the PCs. The Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Whyte, on a supplementary question. Mr. Khan: Honourable Speaker, the Premier just said that he wants to debate bills in this House, and that's why they're here.

And yet, they're forcing it through in BITSA without any debate or public consul tation. Another misleadin g statement by this Premier. Everyone just saw that. This Premier is going down a slippery slope on becoming a smiling dictator: smile to your face, pat you on the back and then take $148 million out of your back pocket in the largest education tax property hike in Manitoba history. [interjection] The Speaker: Order. Mr. Khan: The Finance Minister already committed he does not want Manitobans to come have a say.

He's increasing hydro rates by 4 per cent, and he's got rid of the hydro freeze that they promised. Will the Premier allow Manitobans to have their say and move these bills to public com mittee, yes or no? MLA Sala: Members opposite want to obstruct, delay. We're here to get the work done, right? And they want to throw stones. Well, I'll remind the member opposite, in BITSA 2020, they amended over 30 acts. They actually used that bill for the first time in our Province's history to legis late a hydro rate increase of 2.9 per cent on Manitobans. That's their record.

In fact, that BITSA 2020 bill also repealed The Healthy Child Manitoba Act, removing the legal requirement of government to report on child poverty. That's their record. That's the way they use BITSA. We're using BITSA to make life better for all Manitobans. The Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Whyte, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Khan: Honourable Speaker, it's proof this NDP government wants to live in the past. Well, we live in the reality of now, and what's happening now is they are making life more unaffordable–$148-million tax increase.

And in this BITSA bill they're forcing through with no demo- cratic process, they're also increasing hydro rates to 4 per cent, not the zero that they promised. And it –Honourable Speaker, this is the most substansive inclusion of legis lation in the Province's history, and they won't even let Manitobans come speak to it. This is a direct abuse of power. When I asked the minister if he'd let Manitobans speak, he flat out said no. When I asked for more time on the debate, he said no. This is flat out wrong. Will the Premier stand up and–today and say that he will allow Manitobans to come speak at public committee?

MLA Sala: We're proud of the im portant work that this BITSA bill achieves for Manitobans. First of all, one of the important things it achieves is working to repeal the work that the previous gov - ernment did to jack up hydro rates as quickly as pos - sible. This bill will get rid of provisions that they brought in that sought to set hydro rates at the Cabinet table. That's wrong. * (14:10) We know that hydro rates need to be set by the Public Utilities Board to ensure Manitobans pay the lowest rates possible. Their record: making life more expensive for Manitobans.

Our record: making it as affordable as possible. We're not going to apologize for doing that im portant work for Manitobans. [interjection] The Speaker: Order.

May 8, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1685 Labour Relations Amendment Act Request to Call Bill 37 to Committee Ms. Jodie Byram (Agassiz): Yesterday, the Minister of Labour and Immigration refused to answer my questions in the House. She has had over a month to introduce labour legis lation and instead stuck them into a bill that will deny Manitobans the op portunity to scrutinize these pieces of legislation at committee. So I ask: Will she reverse course and ensure a committee will be called for the schedules she has added to BITSA? Hon.

Malaya Marcelino (Minister of Labour and Immigration): Honourable Speaker, yesterday our government made an impactf ul an nouncement for 6,700 temporary workers in Manitoba, and I would like to provide Manitobans with more background on this important issue. On February 15th, the Minister of Advanced Edu- cation and I met with the federal Immigration minister, and it was at this meeting that we initially proposed solutions for Manitoba. With full support of the Premier (Mr. Kinew), we engaged with the federal Immigration minister to implement solutions for Manitoba.

I'd like to emphasize that this is the first of its kind across Canada, and yesterday we received official con- firmation that those 6,700 temporary workers can have their work permits extended for 24 months and con- tinue working in Manitoba. We are a government that cares about its people– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Ms. Byram: We know that organized labour has had input on these bills, but everyday Manitobans have not had that same opportunity. That is undemocratic. Why is the minister denying the public the same courtesy and access?

All Manitobans have the right to come to this building and present to a committee about legislation. Will she do the right thing and commit to calling The Labour Relations Amendment Act to committee? MLA Marcelino: Honourable Speaker, I have so me more very im portant details regarding this federal agreement. First of all, it only applies to postgraduate work permit holders whose work permits have expired or are expiring in 2024.

Secondly, this applies only to postgraduate work permit holders who are currently candidates in our Manitoba Provincial Nominee Program pool and have applied for their EOI or are waiting for their LAA. This agreement only applies for temporary residents in Manitoba currently. And these extra 24 months will give MPNP candidates more time to upgrade their EOI scores and move into high- demand jobs like health care, construction and early child hood educa- tion. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. The Speaker: The honourable member for Agassiz, on a final supplementary question. Ms.

Byram: I'm not sure why she's not answering my question. I am talking about Labour Relations Amend- ment Act. It is simply not a tax statute and should not have been brought forward on its own to allow Manitobans to properly scrutinize it. The minister told multiple media outlets that she would intro duce her bills at first available opportunity yet she never did. Why is this minister and the NDP government using omnibus legislation to hide bills from Manitobans? MLA Marcelino: Honourable Speaker, our team is cleaning up the mess left behind–the PCs.

PCs have caused our current MPNP backlog because they nominated way more than they could process. For example, they issued over 16,000 nomina - tions for only 9,500 spots. The PCs didn't even have a Labour and Immigration Department for their time in office except for the last year. But then –even then, they didn't even staff it up, so then they couldn't even process Manitoba's full federal allotment. That means we left over 2,000 nominations unfilled. That's 2,000 more newcomer families that were turned away by the PCs in 2023. That's very, very shameful, Honourable Speaker.

Altru Health Agreement Government Intention Mr. Konrad Narth (La Vérendrye): Constituents in southern La Vérendrye are rightly concerned with a drop in the quality of health -care services under this NDP government. Agreements with US -based Altru health were in place to provide services closer to home for border communities in southern Manitoba. With the nearest Manitoba ER nearly 200 kilometres away for some residents, a form of this agreement has been in place for more than 50 years. When I questioned the availability of these services, the

1686 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 8, 2024 Minister of Health refused to meet. I'll table their response letter expressing this. Will the minister confirm for the House that they are not cutting this program? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): I thank the member for that question. I do find it a bit curious he's raising it here; we had a con versation in the Chamber two weeks ago, maybe two and a half weeks ago, about this very issue.

And if he had done his homework on this matter, and I did explain to him in the conversation, if he has concerns and questions about the changes in that agree- ment, he should ask the former minister of Health, Cameron Friesen, about why he made the changes when the PCs were in government. The Speaker: The honourable member for La Vérendrye, on a supplementary question. Mr. Narth: I had a conversation with the minister, a casual conversation, without any answers and without commitment for my constituents.

So I'll quote from the letter from the Minister of Health: Your con stituents may wish to contact Southern Health for information about services in the region. What my constituents do remember is under the previous NDP gov ernment, their nearest Manitoba ER, more than 100 kilometres away in Vita, was cut, along with much of the diagnostic services. The Health Minister cannot attempt to shift blame onto health-care workers for their own political decisions. Will the minister please confirm that the contract with Altru health services will not be cut?

MLA Asagwara: Well, I appreciate the member oppo- site acknowledging we had a conversation. I don't con- sider con versations here when we're talking about health care casual. They're serious and important con- versations about health care than affects Manitobans. As I've already stated, there were changes made to that agreement, but it was made under the previous PC government. He can call up Cameron Friesen and have that con versation and ask him what was in his mind when he was cutting health care, closing emer - gency rooms, firing health -care workers and cutting services to rural Manitoba.

Those are all questions I'd love to know the answers to. What was going on in the mind of the failed minister for Health when he was cutting health care in rural Manitoba? Maybe that member opposite can finally get the answer to that question. The Speaker: The honourable member for La Vérendrye, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Narth: Unfortunately, I'm just looking for a response to the question. But we know the NDP's record on providing convenient out -of-province services for Manitobans: cut them, then fire the doctors that recommended them and let wait times get worse right here in Manitoba.

My constituents rely on accessing these services: MRI, CT, ultrasound and more. Many of the residents were born in the US, including those well into their 90s now. They are rightfully concerned that this NDP minister will cut them based entirely on their ideology and their history. Are the services at Altru health–and I ask again– in that system, on the NDP chopping block? MLA Asagwara: Honourable Speaker, that member is part of a PC caucus that was led by Heather Stefanson that cut the very services that he and his con stituents need in rural Manitoba.

It is fascinating that he stands up in the House today to complain about a change in an agreement that was made by the previous PC minister for Health. On this side of the House, we're actually investing in restoring the services that meet the needs of his own constituents. And I can reassure him again –this is a continuation of a previous conversation–those services are ongoing, and we're actually doing outreach in his constituency to make sure that his constituents under- stand the fullness of the agreement. Thank you. Patient Experience at St. Boniface Hospital Request for Critical Incident Investigation Mrs.

Kathleen Cook (Roblin): What happened to Janice Thomas in the St. Boniface ER is terrible and frightening, and no Manitoban should have to exper - ience what she did. * (14:20) Janice presented to the St. Boniface ER in ana - phylactic shock. As she struggled to breathe and nearly died, she was left alone in the emergency room hallway. I'd like to quote Janice herself from the media for the permanent record. Quote, I sat on that stretcher, unable to breathe, for over 20 minutes. With an anaphylactic reaction, I am considered life or death.

May 8, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1687 I can't wait for a room. During this time, not one staff member from the St. Boniface Hospital came to check on me. End quote. Will the minister commit today to investigating what happened to Janice as a critical incident? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): I thank the member opposite, my critic, for that question. I want to thank Ms. Thomas for reaching out to our office. We had the chance to com municate with her a few weeks ago now, about this issue, and we did make sure that patient relations at St.

Boniface Hospital followed up directly with her and have been in com munication with her as well, as well as the region overall. It's so im portant that Manitobans know when they're accessing emergency care that they get the quality of care that they count on. Our government is always making invest ments and im provements to ensure that Manitobans can count on that. The Speaker: The honourable member for Roblin, on a supplementary question. Mrs. Cook: After speaking with Janice again this morning I was surprised to learn that the Minister of Health themself has yet to reach out to take action and speak to Janice.

Janice has been waiting for over two weeks now. Publicly the minister said that it's feedback from people like Janice who give us the feedback to help us improve health care, but the minister didn't take the time to get that feedback in person. And Janice asked that I pass along this message to the minister: The minister said they are listening. My question is, to whom? Apologies will not cut it; the minister needs to take action. Will the minister reach out to Janice today and commit to taking action before this happens to some- one else?

MLA Asagwara: Honourable Speaker, I welcome that question from the member opposite. As I stated in my previous response, our office has been in contact with Ms. Thomas. We were first in contact with her a few weeks ago, and we continue to be in contact with her. We've made sure that patient relations at St. Boniface Hospital and the WRHA are following up with her consistently as well. I'm always happy to connect directly with Manitobans who bring concerns for ward about their experiences in health care, more than happy to give Ms. Thomas a call to discuss these issues directly.

We're going to continue to work with her and the WRHA and St. Boniface to make sure that no matter where you access health care in emergency situations, you get the care that you need. The Speaker: The honourable member for Roblin, on a final supplementary question. Mrs. Cook: I will tell Ms. Thomas to expect a phone call. I'll table the Free Press column published today covering Janice's story, in case the minister missed it. ER wait times are up across the board in Winnipeg under the NDP compared to March of last year.

This is what happens with an NDP government that breaks their campaign promises and does not provide an actionable plan to bring in the staff needed to address ER wait times. Patients like Janice pay the price all while the NDP and this Health Minister continue to dodge accountability. To quote from today's column: The statistics show the health -care system is ge tting worse. Will the minister do the right thing and imme - diately investigate Janice's case as a critical incident?

MLA Asagwara: That case and that situation is cur- rently being reviewed by the WRHA and we'll await what comes out of that review, and they've been in constant–consistent contact, rather, with Ms. Thomas. I do want to point out the challenges we're facing in emergency care in Manitoba right now didn't happen overnight. It was seven and a half years of cuts and closures by the previous Heather Stefanson government, including the member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen), that led to where we are in health care. They cut hundreds of beds across the system.

On this side of the House we're investing in adding back beds, adding back people, adding back respect and strengthening health care in Manitoba. In case the member opposite has forgotten that, I'll table the

article that shows not only did they cut and close the ER at Victoria Hospital, leading to the wait times, but they fired 40 ER nurses. The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Tyndall Park School Questions from Students MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): The students from Tyndall Park school understand that every person in Canada pays taxes, but they want to

1688 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 8, 2024 have a better under standing of why Manitobans spe - cifically pay 7 per cent in provincial sales tax, and will this number ever go higher or lower? [interjection] The Speaker: Order. Order. Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): That amount will never go higher under my watch. I've got to say that one of the things that I hope that the great young students and young–[interjection] The Speaker: Order. Mr.

Kinew: –minds at Tyndall Park school learn, in addition to learning how to be able to maintain your composure while you're being heckl ed, is to practice good public speaking skills. But, importantly, to look at our government as an example for how you can help average, everyday people. One of the first things we did is we cut the prov- incial fuel tax in Manitoba. That helped to make sure that the average person up there can go to the gas station, fill up their vehicle and then have enough money to go to McHappy Day and buy a couple meals for their family.

So again, we can't eat at McDonald's every day, but we can save you money each and every day, and that's what our government is doing. The Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a supplementary question. MLA Lamoureux: The students in grade 4 and 5 have already started to plan for their financial futures. They talked about buying a few fun things like Roblox, but are mostly concerned about investing their money, donating some of it, saving up for university and col- lege and buying a house one day.

Because of the high costs associated with living nowadays, what does the Premier advise young people do so that they can afford a house one day? The Speaker: The honourable–[interjection] Order. Order. Mr. Kinew: I want to commend the young people from Tyndall Park school for being so wise at such an early age when it comes to their financial planning. It's two pieces of advice that I can't take credit for, but I think that they might want to bear in mind. One comes from Warren Buffett, and he was talking about the nature of compound interest.

That even if we are starting with a snowball that's very small, if you start rolling it at an early age and keep rolling it over time, eventually that small snowball can become a huge amount. And that's how you build wealth for an individual. The second piece of advice that I want to share with the people from Tyndall Park school is that the secret to taking $100 and turning it into $1,000 is taking that $100, gassing up your vehicle and going to work. The Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary question.

MLA Lamoureux: The students from Tyndall Park school expressed concerns about everyday items being more expensive, like groceries and water bills. This has created some concerns about their future. Does the Premier feel that groceries in Manitob a are getting too expensive and, if so, what is he going to do about it? Mr. Kinew: Well, first and foremost, I want to say that yes, groceries are getting way too expensive.

Every time I go to the Walmart on Taylor, kind of shake my head at some of the prices that have gone up even since my last visit, and I know that many other families out there are feeling the same way. So we took action by cutting the gas tax; that's putting more money into the pockets of your parents, and really everybody across the province of Manitoba.

But when it comes to the young person, the young mind that's not only hungry for knowledge but hungry for a brighter future, we're ensuring that no child will go to school hungry, because in this year's budget we've invested in a pr ovince-wide meal program for every kid in Manitoba. Carman Wellness Connections Funding Support Announcement MLA Nellie Kennedy (Assiniboia): The tragedy in Carman three months ago that took the lives of one adult and four children was devastating for all Manitobans. What happened that day was nothing short of horrific.

We are working together to protect the most vulnerable in our province. Can the Premier please share with the House about the work being done to help the community of Carman continue to heal? Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): I thank my colleague from Assiniboia for this important question. You know, it was Mr. Rogers who said that when he used to see something scary on the news, his mom

May 8, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1689 would tell him, look for the helpers. And after this terrible tragedy took place in our province, that's what we did. And when we turned to Carman, we found that the helpers there were the group called Carman Wellness Connections, helping to fight poverty and to support people with mental health, and to support some of the people very directly impacted with this. * (14:30) And so we're showing up to support that organi - zation with $100,000 in annual funding so that they can continue their good work.

We're also committing the resources to ensure that the victims of this terrible tragedy will be memorialized. I want to acknowl edge the member for Midland (Mrs. Stone), whose constituency this took place in, as well as the member for Morden-Winkler (Mrs. Hiebert), who is present at many of these community events. And I have to say, I found some measure of solace from the people of Carman, who could have, perhaps, said that's not my family, that's someone else, but instead did the exact opposite. Instead of turning away from one another, the people of– The Speaker: Member's time has expired.

Regulated Community Colleges Revenue Sharing Concerns Mr. Richard Perchotte (Selkirk): Two days ago, I asked the minister a question and yet, again, she said she was confused with what I asked. So, for the record, they are two distinct types of advanced education in stitutions: one is funded with public dollars and the other is regulated by the gov - ernment but funded independently. Why has this minister taken the majority of foreign student revenue from the regulated institutions to keep the public in stitutions whole, causing millions of dollars of lost revenue? Hon.

Renée Cable (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): I thank the member opposite for the question. Our gov ernment is investing in post -secondary. Budget 2024 includes a 6 per cent increase overall to Advanced Education and Training. It includes a 2 per cent increase to the operating grant for each of our public post-secondary institutions. And Manitobans have invest ed in public post-secondary in stitutions and our gov ernment is committed to keeping them strong so that students get high-quality education. We're committed to ensuring this education is accessible and affordable.

The Speaker: The honourable member for Selkirk, on a supplementary question. Mr. Perchotte: Maybe I'm not being clear, Hon our- able Speaker. I'm talking about the inde pendently funded, regulated institutions, not public institutions. Reducing the foreign students each by 90 per cent and the regulated colleges to ensure publicly funded schools only have a minimal loss or even an increase, as was given to the Uni versity of Winnipeg, creates huge financial losses for the regulated colleges. What is this minister doing to of fset these losses that she, herself, has imposed?

MLA Cable: Honourable Speaker, Manitobans elected our government to work for them, and that's just what we did. We worked with the federal government and fought for our fair share of provincial attestation letters so that international students can continue to come to study in Manitoba. We increased our allot ment letters from 15,232 to 18,652. That's a 23 per cent increase. And our focus, to be clear, is to ensure that our public universities and colleges continue to welcome international students and that inter national students know that they're valuable and welcome here in Manitoba.

I won't apologize for that. The Speaker: The honourable member for Selkirk, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Perchotte: Honourable Speaker, it's very clear this minister is only focused on the public institutions. There's more than the public institutions. We count on every day for the tradespeople to come out of the other colleges, for people of North Dakota to come up to schools like Providence, to people that come to Robertson career college, Herzing career college. Their funding has been cut directly by this minister, and she's refusing to take responsibility.

When will she find the funds to give back to them? MLA Cable: To address the question, it is just simply untrue that we have cut funding. Do you know what is true? That year over year over year, the folks over there cut funding to post-secondary institutions. They cut and froze funding for seven and a half years. They pushed post -secondary in stitutions

1690 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 8, 2024 into a situation where they came to depend on revenue from international students. If the PCs had properly funded advanced educa- tion, post-secondary institutions would be less vulner- able overall to these changes from Ottawa. Our government will always work on behalf of Manitobans. I will never apologize for doing that. Electric Vehicle Rebate Government Intention Mr. Greg Nesbitt (Riding Mountain): Fewer and fewer Canadians and fewer and fewer Manitobans are interested in electric vehicles.

In fact, according to AutoTrader, less than half of all Canadians are interested in buying or driving an EV. They don't like the high costs. They don't trust the range in performance. And they know there will never be enough charging infra structure to support them. That's why three out of four Canadians refuse to give up their gas-powered cars and trucks. So I ask this minister: How does she plan to sell the NDP's EV rebate lo ttery? Does she plan to ban gas-powered cars to force Manitobans to drive electric? Hon.

Tracy Schmidt (Minister of Environment and Climate Change): I thank my critic, the member opposite, for the oppor tunity to brag about our an- nouncement in Budget 2024 that we are going to be introducing electric vehicle rebates finally here in Manitoba, an oppor tunity that the previous gov ern- ment slept on. Manitobans, I have to tell you, it's one of the an- nouncements in our budget that I'm getting the most excitement about out in the com munity.

I encourage all Manitobans to visit their dealer on their way home and look at how to take advantage of $4,000 off a new electric vehicle, or $2,500 off a used electric vehicle. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. The Speaker: The–order. Order. Order. Order. Order. Hon. Wab Kinew (Premier): Assuming–yes. Point of Order The Speaker: The hon ourable First Minister, on a point of order. Mr. Kinew: I just wanted to conclude my remarks about the people of Carman, because this matter does mean a lot to me, for the benefit of Hansard. Just wanted to say that the people of Carman didn't turn away from each other.

Rather, they did the exact opposite. They turned toward one another, and they helped them selves through a diffi cult time the way Manitobans always have: by doing it together. The Speaker: I would advise that it's not a point of order, but I do appre ciate the First Minister finishing his comments, and I'm sure the people of Carman appreciate it as well. PETITIONS Provincial Trunk Highway 2 Mr. Grant Jackson (Spruce Woods): Honourable Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Prov incial Trunk Highway 2, PTH 2, is a 315-kilometre, 196-mile highway that runs from the Saskatchewan-Manitoba border to Winnipeg's Perimeter Highway.

(2) A sig nificant portion of PTH 2 runs through the constituency of Spruce Woods, from the border of the rural municipality of Pipestone and the rural muni- cipality of Sifton to the border of the rural munici - pality of Victoria and the rural municipality of Norfolk-Treherne.

(3) This route is historically sig nificant, as it follows the original path taken in 1874 by the North West Mounted Police in their march west from Fort Dufferin to Fort Whoop-Up.

(4) PTH 2 is a sig nificant commuting route for Westman families and is also utilized by those in the trade, commerce, tourism, a griculture and agrifood industries.

(5) The condition of PTH 2, from the east side of the town of Souris straight through to the hamlet of Deleau, is in an unacceptable state of disrepair.

(6) The newly appointed Minister of Trans por- tation and Infr astructure has confirmed the de part- ment has no plan to refurbish this stretch of road until the 2028-2029 construction season.

(7) The minister outlined that the current 2028-2029 construction plan does–[interjection] The Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. If I could ask members if they're having conver - sations to take them to the loge. It's getting awfully

May 8, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1691 loud. I'm having a hard time hearing the member who is speaking. * (14:40) Mr. Jackson:

(7) The minister outlined that the current 2028-2029 construction plan does not include the stretch of PTH 2 that runs through the town of Souris, but instead starts on the west side of town.

(8) The communities in the area have been clear that any reconstruction of PTH 2 must include the stretch that runs through the town of Souris.

(9) The minister and the Premier have a duty to respond to infra structure needs identified by rural communities. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Premier and the Minister of Transportation and Infra structure to imme diately prioritize the reconstruction of Prov incial Trunk Highway 2 in the upcoming construction season, and

(2) To urge the provincial government to include the stretch of Prov incial Trunk Highway 2 that runs through the town of Souris in its reconstruction plans. This petition is signed by Kim Eissner, Alex Martel, Rick Janzen and many, many, many Manitobans. Medical Assistance in Dying Mr. Josh Guenter (Borderland): Honourable Speaker, I wish t o present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) Persons struggling with mental health as their sole condition may access medical assistance in dying unless Parliament intervenes.

(2) Suicidality is often a symptom of mental illness, and suicide is the second leading cause of death for Canadians between the age of 10 and 19.

(3) There have been reports of the unsolicited introduction of medical assist ance in dying to non-seeking persons, including Canadian veterans, as a solution for their medical and mental health issues.

(4) Legal and medical experts are deeply concerned that permitting Canadians suffering from depression and other mental illnesses to access euthanasia would under- mine suicide prevention efforts and risk normalizing suicide as a solution for those suffering from mental illness.

(5) The federal gov ernment is bound by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to advance and protect the life, liberty and security of its citizens.

(6) Manitobans consider it a priority to ensure that adequate supports are in place for the mental health of all Canadians.

(7) Vulnerable Manitobans must be given suicide prevention counselling instead of suicide assistance.

(8) The federal gov ernment should focus on increasing mental health supports to provinces and improve access to these supports, instead of offering medical assist ance in dying for those with mental illness. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the prov incial government to lobby the federal gov ernment to stop the expansion of medical assistance in dying to those for whom mental illness is the sole condition.

(2) To urge the prov incial government to lobby the federal government to protect Canadians struggling with mental illness by facilitating treatment, recovery and medical assistance in living, not death. This is signed by Scott Harder, Anna Friesen, Victoria Freund and many, many, many Manitobans. Removal of Federal Carbon Tax Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Leader of the Official Opposition): Honourable Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The federal government has mandated a con- sumption-based carbon tax, with the stated goal of financially pressuring Canadians to make decisions to reduce their carbon emissions.

(2) Manitoba Hydro estimates that, even with a high-efficiency furnace, the carbon tax is costing the average family over $200 annually, even more for those with older furnaces.

(3) Home heating in Manitoba is not a choice or a decision for Manitobans to make; it is a necessity of life, with an average of almost 200 days b elow 0°C annually. The federal government has selectively removed the carbon tax off of home heating oil in the Atlantic

1692 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 8, 2024 provinces of Canada, but has indicated they have no intention to provide the same relief to Manitobans heating their homes. Manitoba Hydro indicates–

(5) But Manitoba Hydro indicates that natural gas heating is one of the most affordable options available to Manitobans, and it can be cost prohibitive for households to replace their heating source.

(6) Premiers across Canada, including the Atlantic provinces that benefit from this decision, have collectively sent a letter to the federal gov ernment calling on it to extend the carbon tax exemption to all forms of home heating, with the exception of Manitoba.

(7) Manitoba is one of the only prov incial juris- dictions to have not agreed with the stance that all Canadians' home heating bills should be exempt from the carbon tax.

(8) Provincial leadership in other juris dictions have already committed to removing the federal carbon tax from home heating bills. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to remove the carbon tax on home heating bills for all Manitobans to provide them much-needed relief. Honourable Speaker, this petition is signed by Kayla Turner, Kaidence Pilon, Raymond Popple and many other fine Manitobans. Mr.

Konrad Narth (La Vérendrye): Honourable Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly The background to this petition is as follows: The federal gov ernment has mandated a con - sumption-based carbon tax, with the stated goal of financially pressuring Canadians to make decisions to reduce their carbon emissions.

(2) Manitoba Hydro estimates that even with a high-efficiency furnace, the carbon tax is costing the average family over $200 annually, even more for those with old furnaces.

(3) Home heating in Manitoba is not a choice or a decision for Manitobans to make; it is a necessity of life, with an aver age of almost 200 days below 0°C annually.

(4) The federal government has selectively removed the carbon tax off of home heating oil in the Atlantic provinces of Canada, but has indicated they have no intention to provide the same relief to Manitobans heating their homes.

(5) Manitoba Hydro indicates that natural gas heating is one of the most affordable options available to Manitobans, and it can be cost prohibitive for households to replace their heating source.

(6) Premiers across Canada, includi ng in the Atlantic provinces that benefit from this decision, have collectively sent a letter to the federal gov ernment calling on it to extend the carbon tax exemption to all forms of home heating, with the exception of Manitoba. Manitoba is one of th e only prov incial jurisdic- tions to have not agreed with the stance that all Canadians' home heating bills should be exempt from the carbon tax. Provincial leadership in other juris dictions have already committed to removing the federal carbon tax from home heating bills.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: * (14:50) To urge the provincial government to remove the federal carbon tax on home heating bills for all Manitobans to provide them much needed relief. This pe tition is signed by Patricia Pellard [phonetic], Joel Tourond and Greg Bugeira [phonetic] and many, many other Manitobans. Medical Assistance in Dying Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield-Ritchot): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition:

(1) Beginning March 17, 2024, persons struggling with mental health as their sole condition may access medical assistance in dying unless Parliament intervenes.

(2) Suicidality is often a s ymptom of mental illness, and suicide is the leading–suicide is the second leading cause of death for Canadians between the age of 10 and 19.

(3) There have been reports of the unsolicited introduction of medical assist ance in dying to non- seeking perso ns, including Canadian veterans, as a solution for their medical and mental health issues.

May 8, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1693

(4) Legal and medical experts are deeply concerned that permitting Canadians suffering from depression and other mental illnesses to access euthanasia would undermine suicide prevention efforts and risk normal- izing suicide as a solution for those suffering from mental illnesses.

(5) The federal gov ernment is bound by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to advance and protect the life, liberty and security of its citizens.

(6) Manitobans consider it a priority to ensure that adequate supports are in place for the mental health of all Canadians.

(7) Vulnerable Manitobans must be given suicide prevention counselling instead of suicide assistance.

(8) The fe deral gov ernment should focus on increasing mental health supports to provinces and improve access to these supports, instead of offering medical assist ance in dying for those with mental illness. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the prov incial government to lobby the federal gov ernment to stop the expansion of medical assistance in dying to those for whom mental illness is the sole condition.

(2) To urge the prov incial government to lobby the federal government to protect Canadians struggling with mental illness by facilitating treatment, recovery and medical assistance in living, not death. This is signed by Libbi [phonetic] Charles Fillian, James Kautz, Monique Jeanson and many, many other Manitobans. Removal of Federal Carbon Tax Ms. Jodie Byram (Agassiz): Honourable Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. To the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The federal government has mandated a con- sumption-based carbon tax, with the stated goal of financially pressuring Canadians to make decisions to reduce their carbon emissions.

(2) Manitoba Hydro estimates that, even with a high-efficiency furnace, the carbon tax is costing the average family over $200 annually, even more for those with older furnaces.

(3) Home heating in Manitoba is not a choice or a decision for Manitobans to make; it is a necessity of life, with an average of almost 2 00 days below 0°C annually.

(4) The federal government has selectively removed the carbon tax off of home heating oil in the Atlantic provinces of Canada, but has indicated they have no intention to provide the same relief to Manitobans heating their homes.

(5) Manitoba Hydro indicates that natural gas heating is one of the most affordable options available to Manitobans. It can be cost prohibitive for house - holds to replace their heating source.

(6) Premiers across Canada, including in the Atlantic provinces that benefit from this decision, have collectively sent a letter to the federal gov ernment, calling on it to extend the carbon tax exemption to all forms of home heating, with the exception of Manitoba. * (15:00)

(7) Manitoba is one of the only prov incial juris- dictions to have not agreed with the stance that all Canadians' home heating bills should be exempt from the carbon tax.

(8) Provincial leadership in other juris dictions have already committed to removing the federal carbon tax from home heating bills. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to remove the federal carbon tax on home heating bills for all Manitobans to provide them much-needed relief. This has been si gned by many Manitobans: Sherry Francis, Danielle Carefoot, Jenna Lowry and many, many, many more Manitobans. The Speaker: No further petitions? Mr. Greg Nesbitt (Riding Mountain): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The federal government has mandated a con- sumption-based carbon tax, with the stated goal of financially pressuring Canadians to make decisions to reduce their carbon emissions.

(2) Manitoba Hydro estimates that, even with a high-efficiency furnace, the carbon tax is costing the

1694 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 8, 2024 average family over $200 annually, even more for those with older furnaces.

(3) Home heating in Manitoba is not a choice or a decision for Manitobans to make; it is a necessity of life, with an average of almost 200 days below 0°C annually.

(4) The federal government has selectively removed the carbon tax off of home heating oil in the Atlantic provinces of Canada, but has indicated they have no intention to provide t he same relief to Manitobans heating their homes.

(5) Manitoba Hydro indicates that natural gas heating is one of the most affordable options available to Manitobans, and it can be cost prohibitive for households to replace their heating source.

(6) Premiers across Canada, including in the Atlantic provinces that benefit from this decision, have collectively sent a letter to the federal gov ernment, calling on it to extend the carbon tax exemption to all forms of home heating, with the exception of Manitoba.

(7) Manitoba is one of the only prov incial juris- dictions to have not agreed with the stance that all Canadians' home heating bills should be exempt from the carbon tax.

(8) Provincial leadership in other juris dictions have already committed to removing the federal carbon t ax from home heating bills. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to remove the federal carbon tax on home heating bills for all Manitobans to provide them with much-needed relief. This petition is signed by Mike Leech [phonetic], Linda Newton, Lisa Hogg and many, many, many Manitobans. Thank you, Honourable Speaker. Medical Assistance in Dying Mrs. Kathleen Cook (Roblin): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition:

(1) Persons struggling with mental health as their sole condition may access medical assistance in dying unless Parliament intervenes.

(2) Suicidality is often a symptom of mental illness, and suicide is the second leading cause of death for Canadians between the ages of 10 and 19.

(3) There have been reports of the unsolicited introduction of medical assist ance in dying to non- seeking persons, including Canadian veter ans, as a solution for their medical and mental health issues.

(4) Legal and medical experts are deeply concerned that permitting Canadians suffering from depression and other mental illnesses to access euthanasia would undermine suicide prevention efforts and risk normalizing suicide as a solution for those suffering from mental illness.

(5) The federal government is bound by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to advance and protect the life, liberty and security of its citizens.

(6) Manitobans consider it a priority to ensure that adequate supports are in place for the mental health of all Canadians.

(7) Vulnerable Manitobans must be given suicide prevention counselling instead of suicide assistance.

(8) The federal gov ernment should focus on increasing mental health supports to provinces and improve access to these supports, instead of offering medical assist ance in dying for those with mental illness. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the prov incial government to lobby the federal government to stop the expansion of medi- cal assist ance in dying to those for whom mental illness is the sole condition.

(2) To urge the prov incial government to lobby the federal government to protect Canadians struggling with mental illness by facilitating treatment, recovery and medical assistance in living, not death. And this petition is signed by Gloria Boychuk, Linda Zazuliak and Doreen Lloyd and many, many other Manitobans. Louise Bridge Mr. Obby Khan (Fort Whyte): Honourable Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legis - lative Assembly. To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background to this petition is as follows:

May 8, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1695

(1) Over 25,000 vehicles per day cross the Louise Bridge, which has served as a vital link for vehicular traffic between northeast Winnipeg and the downtown for the last 113 years.

(2) The current structure will undoubtedly be declared unsafe in a few years as it has deteriorated extensively, is now functionally obsolete, and therefore more subject to more frequent unplanned repairs and cannot be widened to accommodate future traffic capacity.

(3) As far back as 2008, the City of Winnipeg, City, has studied where the new re placement bridge should be situated. * (15:10)

(4) After including the bridge replacement in the City's five-year capital budget forecast in 2009, the new bridge became a short-term construction priority in the City's transportation master plan of 2011.

(5) City capital and b udget plans identified re - placement of the Louise Bridge on a site just east of the bridge and expropriated homes there on the south side of Nairn Avenue in anticipation of a 2015 start.

(6) In 2014, the new City adminis tration did not make use of available federal infrastructure funds.

(7) The new Louise Bridge Com mittee began its campaign to demand a new bridge and its surveys confirmed residents wanted a new bridge beside the current bridge, with the old bridge kept open for local traffic.

(8) The City tethered the Louise Bridge replace- ment issue to its new trans portation master plan and eastern corridor project. Its recom mendations have now identified the location of the new Louise bridge to be placed just to the west of the current bridge, not to the east as originally proposed.

(9) The City's expropriation process has begun. The $6.35- million street upgrade of Nairn Avenue from Watt Street to 100 and–to the 113- year-old bridge is complete. The new–

(10) The new City administration has delayed the decision on the Louise Bridge for a minimum of one year, and possibly up to 10 years, unless the Province steps in on behalf of northeast Winnipeg residents and completes the overdue link.

(11) The Premier has a duty to direct the prov - incial government to provide financial assistance to the City so it can complete this long overdue vital link to northeast Winnipeg and Transcona. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Premier to financially assist the City of Winnipeg on building this three-lane bridge in each direction to maintain this vital link between northeast Winnipeg, Transcona and the downtown.

(2) To urge the provincial government to recom- mend that the City of Winnipeg keep the old bridge fully open to traffic–the new bridge is under construction.

(3) To urge the provincial government to consider the feasibility of keeping the old bridge open for active transportation in the future. This petition was signed by Sajjad Hashm, Di ll Krennedy [phonetic] and Rudrar [phonetic] Patel and many, many, many Manitobans. The Speaker: There are no further petitions? Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon.

Matt Wiebe (Acting Government House Leader): Can you please call the continuation of second reading of debate of Bill 30, The Unexplained Wealth Act, criminal property forfeiture act and cor porations act amendment–mended, followed by second reading of Bill 31, The Captured Carbon Storage Act, and fol - lowing that, the second reading of Bill 29, The Body Armour and Fortified Vehicle Control Amendment Act.

The Speaker: It has been announced that we will resume debate on second reading of Bill 30, the unexplained wealth criminal property forfeiture act, corporations act amended, followed by second reading of Bill 31, The Captured Carbon Storage Act, fol - lowed by Bill 29, the armour and fortified vehicle control amendment act.

DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS Bill 30–The Unexplained Wealth Act (Criminal Property Forfeiture Act and Corporations Act Amended) The Speaker: We will now resume debate on the reasoned amend ment of Bill 30, The Unexplained Wealth Act, criminal forfeiture act and cor porations act amended, standing in the name of the member for Selkirk, who has 23 minutes remaining. Just for clari fication purposes, we are on the reasoned amend ment to the second debate –second reading motion. * (15:20)

1696 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 8, 2024 Mr. Richard Perchotte (Selkirk): Yesterday, I had an opportunity to get up and put a few words on the record about the reasoned amendment for Bill 30, The Unexplained Wealth Act, the Criminal Property Forfeiture Act and Corporations Act Amended. Yesterday, I spoke briefly–I believe it was seven minutes–about why we felt that Bill 30 didn't bring anything substantively new in front of this House for us to debate. We talked about the number of hours we spent going over that bill and how there was no signi- ficant difference.

And I had to reflect again, yet, last night as to why we are here. Why do we have a bill in front of us that we had to bring forward by the member from Interlake-Gimli to say, we have to have a reasoned amendment to this bill? Why? And again, it's what I teach my children. It's, life isn't easy. You have to put in the work. You have to put in the work to get things done right. And I know the Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe) would like us to sit down and just pass this bill, but that's not how life works. Life doesn't say, you get a pass just because you're a minister. Because you're elected, you g et a pass.

You have to put in the work. And when we went through this bill, Bill 30, The Unexplained Wealth Act, and we compared it to legis- lation that we currently had, we found very little difference. And, yesterday, I mentioned how the PC govern- ment have given many gifts, and this was a gift that was given in 2021. This gift was put in a box, it was wrapped, it was put on some beautiful blue paper and then it was passed through legislation and everybody loved what was presented in 2021. And the mi nister got elected, and he was high- fiving himself in the parking lot, and he didn't get down to busi ness.

And he had to scramble to try to bring something forward as a new bill. And he looked around at what was available, and he found this box, this beautiful box that was presented by the PC gov - ernment, that had, already, legis lation in there from 2021, which was also amended a little bit in 2022. And he says, I'm going to take that box, I'm going to put on some cautionary orange wrapping paper, I'm going to throw a little bit of fluff pieces in there and we're going to add some verbiage.

And whenever I sit down with my lawyer, putting up contracts for the business I used to be involved in, we called them weasel words. But it's verbiage that goes in there, and it's very important in some cases, and some cases, it's filler material that really doesn't go very far. So he's added this fluff and these weasel words in here to try to make himself look better. But unfor tunately, sometimes people are in a position, not because of their knowledge, just because nobody else was available, and I think we've got that here.

And I would recommend to the minister opposite that, perhaps, do your homework to get down and find real substantive changes to legislation that is going to move forward. So after I left here yesterday, I contacted several people, again, who I originally talked about Bill 30 on, to say, am I missing something on this bill? Am I missing something that's going to change the –where is the oh wow moment that I'm going to have on this bill? And there is none. And yet again, they –we are sitting here talking, and the minister opposite, again, wants to talk over. He thinks it's his time.

Again, he's not prepared to do the work, and when he's called on it, he just can't help– that mouth just keeps going and going. And, Honourable Speaker, you and I will agree. You sent out a letter to the members of this Chamber and decorum and how we should behave. And yet again, we have the childish behaviour of people yelling across the aisle. He had his time yesterday to talk about it. He brought out and he took a look at all those little weasel words and brought them forward. And, again, we said, I had an opportunity to look back, and I looked at that and said, again, it was nothing different.

When we sit back and take a look at what people are supposed to do in this Chamber, what we're duly elected to do is to make sure that we represent the people that have us here. [interjection] And here he is again. Would you like to stand up and talk for a couple minutes? Do you have something to say? The Speaker: Order, please. We can quit hollering back and forth. And the member who has the floor can keep his comments relevant to what he's supposed to. Mr. Perchotte: What I was speaking to is the fact that there was no substantive changes to this.

And how after I went back last night, we sent out infor mation throughout my core group that I spoke with. And I

May 8, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1697 talked to members of the RCMP, members of the Winnipeg police, including those that are undercover. We talked to federal prosecutors. I talked to provincial prosecutors and I talked to my own personal lawyers. An Honourable Member: You said this yesterday. Mr. Perchotte: So the member says I talked about this yesterday, and matter of fact, I did, Honour able Speaker. And–but also, in turning to that, another member from across the aisle got up and he had a list of different items that were supposedly the big ooh- hoo moment that we're supposed to look for.

So I took from Hansard the infor mation that was there, and I sent that out along. And –[interjection] Yes, sir. I sent that infor mation to these people. And once again, they took a look at that, and they said, there's nothing more than meets the eye. Once again, you take a look at what the gov ern- ment has done –and it was proven again today –I'm very concerned that the people opposite in the posi - tions of the ministries that they have do not have the qualifications to do the job. That was proven today in question period when we answered questions, and nobody could answer.

So they grab legislation that was produced in the past, they repackage it under a different name, and they bring it forward. We've seen where we've had members on our side present their bills that are on the Order Paper only to find out a few days later that the current government has taken those ideas and present- ing them as their own bills, as I'm certain the member from Midland can attest to. Somebody takes your idea and presents it as a new one. Or, in other case, the–in the bills I've brought for- ward for caisse populaire, the –showed up again– recycled from somebody else's bill.

Halfway done through presentation and writing, it comes again. So I'm very concerned that the government is only using bills that either are presented by the PC govern- ment or bills that have been already introduced by the PC government and bringing them back as their own. We've seen them recycle different an nounce- ments. We've had person al daycares, okay, taken away then brought back. We've had also the personal- care homes, okay, taken off of the table that were announced by the PC government and put back on the table in the riding of Lac du Bonnet, trying to show it as a new thing.

Nobody knows better than us on this side of the House; it was our idea. And, again, when I sat down and I talked to the members from–the MLA from Steinbach, the MLA from Brandon West, I talked to the other colleagues in the room, and we talked about what new tools this bill will give to the forfeiture act, and there is no new tools. It's a reverbage of stuff that's already in there. We talked about many different things, and there's several different pages here. * (15:30) But an example of how things get recycled in their own Bill 30, they talk about in

section 14(2), by repealing the

definitions of after-market compartment and trafficking and adding after-market hidden com- partment. But yet, this shows up again in another bill. We have another bill that r eferences exactly the same thing. The body armour and forfeiture vehicle controls amendment act addresses this very

section that they're bringing forward. I'm very concerned that we have a government, that we have a minister, that is just incapable of doing their own work. I've taught my children that sometimes it's a hard road to go down, but you have to do your own work. You have to struggle, and sometimes you fail along the way and the minister has clearly failed to demon- strate to the PC caucus that his bill is any different than the legislation it's had. And failure isn't always a bad thing; we learn from failure. Our children learn from failure and as adults, we learn from failure.

And as from government, sometimes we learn from failure. So I w ould plead with my colleague across the way, the Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe) to please learn from his failures and perhaps address his role in a more mature manner than yelling and screaming across the aisle, but actually take a look at what the people that elected him to do and get down to the busi- ness at hand. When you take a look at changing minor words to try to present some thing different, changing dollar amounts of $75,000 to $125,000–that's not a substan- tive change that has happened.

And agai n, I have to really thank the member from Interlake -Gimli for finally saying, it's enough. We can't keep debating Bill 30 without this reasoned amendment because we're going around in circles. We have simply garbage that was brought forward because there's nothing new. [interjection] Absolutely, when you can't do your job and you take somebody else's work, it is garbage. When you want to copy from somebody and you want to present bills that are

1698 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 8, 2024 not related to today's new bills, when you're trying to recapture the thoughts of another party and try to present them as your own, that is garbage. It's absolute garbage. If you want to present some new bills, something that captures our attention–especially, my attention–I believe that there is going to be some good bills brought forward from that side of the House. And I don't think we should be looking at bills at a partisan way.

I believe we need to look at bills at what it does for our com munities and to make sure that the bills presented reflect not only this day and age that we're in, but the wishes of the people who elected us to get here. To look over the shoulder of the person sitting next to you, or to recycle bills that were already intro- duced and bring them forward as your look-what-I've- done m oment; that's ridiculous. It's not what we're elected to be here for. If you want to bring something forward to protect people, take a look at protecting women that are of sexualized violence.

Let's get those perpetrators off the street. If you want to r eally have something sub- stantive in organized crime, create task force, have more funding going to those gov ernment institutions that can handle that. I mean major funding. One of the biggest problems that the member probably doesn't know, when people of organized crime are doing their illegal, illicit activities, it's often after the hours that the police are working. And they're not allowed to work overtime, so the criminals lay low during the day and then at nighttime they go forward and they start committing crimes.

So if that was in this bill, that they would put more funding towards surveillance and capturing the drug dealers and the organized criminals; if they put that information forward, I would be a hundred per cent supportive of this. But it's not; it's the same bill. And the bill is good because it's our bill. It's really good because it's our bill, and it's really good because BC copied our bill. Now, when BC took a look at it, they broke it down to components, and they talked about all the different things that we had talked about in 2021.

And when you take a look at each of those components, and we can go through them here if the member opposite would like me to. We could take a look. Basically, in 2021, the PC government introduced the exact same legis lation, and it was made as legis - lative changes to the legis lation to strengthen the ability of the Criminal Property Forfeiture Unit to quickly act on securing money that was believed to be used for money laundering. That's a great idea. We want to take the money out of the criminals' hands. That bill, then, is the same bill now. There's no substan tive difference.

There is an inflationary difference where the volume dollar value goes from $75,000 to $125,000, but that's not much of a difference. If you want to go after the criminals, why is there a limit? So you tell a criminal, well, don't buy –don't worry about your assets $125,000 and under, but you're safe at 250, half a million and million-dollar ones. We need something substantive to go after these criminals. Recycling a bill, adding in fluff, adding in weasel words just to make it your new bill doesn't help anybody.

When you take a look in 2022, the PC government expanded the Criminal Property Forfeiture Unit to combat money laundering by hiring two investigators and a financial analyst. This bill doesn't refer to any of that. It doesn't talk about hiring more people. It doesn't talk about putting any more money in the hands of those people that were hired. There's no difference again on that bill. In 2022 BC released its financial report of the commission of the inquiry into money laundering.

So they talked about all different things, Honour able Speaker, things that was addressed in 2021 in the Conservative Party's bill that was adopted and brought forward in the House. They talked about the changes that happened in 2022 that were adopted in this House. They liked those. They thought Manitoba was leading edge on what we had coming forward. And I caution the members on the opposite side. I–there's several of them I admire. I have a lot of respect for them, and there's a few of them I think need to do more work. I don't want to say anything derogatory. Everybody was elected here on their due will.

I believe everybody that is here deserves to be here because if the people that elected them–got them here. They're here to represent. But there are members here that are not doing the work they're supposed to. When you ask them a question, they're confused. T hey don't know what's

May 8, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1699 going on. And it shows in this legis lation brought forward. When someone doesn't know what's going on, they're going to copy somebody. I, myself, was prepared to, you know, to take a look at some of the legis lation that was done in the past and to move forward. And when I felt there was things I wanted to bring forward, I talked to members of my caucus and members of our staff to find out on the bills that I would bring forward how they related to today. I found out on a couple of the ideas that I wanted to bring forward that already existed.

And they said unless I wanted to change it or amend it a little bit, I couldn't bring that–forward the same bill. When I took a look at the bills–were there, I was satisfied that that alrea dy was there. I just wasn't aware of it. And I'm afraid that the Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe) didn't do that little bit of homework to look to see if this has already existed, because he certainly would have found almost word for word for word,

section after

section after section, the bill is there. And by changing words to include assets now include cryptocurrency assets, it's still an asset. You don't have to say that. What are we going to break it down to, you know, cash assets, hard assets, property assets, cryptocurrency assets, money -in-the-bank assets, foreign invest ment assets. We don't have to break it down. An asset is an asset. If you ask an ac - countant what is an asset, it's a very distinct definition. * (15:40) You need to make sure that if you're going to bring something forward in this Chamber, that it can get the support that it needs.

We have seen several bills brought forward that we have supported or had passed on division. But when somebody brings for - ward somebody else's work, somebody else's hundreds and thousands of hours of work, and comes and says, oh, here it is; it's mine now; I'm going to put it forward as mine, we're going to have a good look at it and we're going to determine if that is right or wrong. And we all have a sense of right or wrong, Honourable Speaker. And I would never tolerate my children taking from somebody else's work. That's stealing.

And over my life, I've had people offer me things at a great deal, and you know stuff has been stolen, and I have no par t of that. My integrity is not for sale. I am not going to be putting anybody at risk by allowing people to steal from them, by encouraging that by buying property from them. I would never do that. The value of my integrity is much, much higher than that, and I'm not for sale. But when somebody reaches across the aisle and steals the work that has been done here previously, you have to wonder, what is the integrity of that person? What is the value that person puts on them - selves?

To sit here in the Chamber to openly produce legislation that they know they haven't produced themselves. They have taken from somebody else and added a little bit into it. Honourable Speaker, I read your note that you sent to the MLAs in this Chamber, and I couldn't agree more. I've said many times here that we need to have a better sense of decorum in here. The way we behave–I tell people when they come for a tour, said, don't come to question period. It is absolutely ridiculous. You ask a question, nobody wants to answer i t.

The people in here, they jump up and down, they pound on desks, they yell across for no reason what soever. I mean, it's ridiculous. Okay? And then we sit back and we go, what have we become? We need to have a better decorum. I would agree with you, Honourable Speaker, a hundred per cent. Let's be adults. Let's be mature. Let's be respectful. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. The Speaker: Order, please. Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield-Ritchot): I would like to put some words on the record in regards to this most recent amendment.

I just want to say to the Manitoba Legislature that is going to be very hard act to follow, the act from the –the speech from the member from Selkirk. Even those who didn't put their volume on on their TV heard it. So that I won't be able to do. This is a recent amend ment. For those of the Legislature who have had the oppor tunity to read it, they know how reasonable it's laid out. Comments have been made by members of this Legislature about the fact that this seems to be a retread piece of legis- lation, and there is a vernacular out there that says imitation is the greatest form of flattery.

And we know the member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe) has hero-worship issues when it comes to the member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen), a nd I would say maybe in the realm of love -hate relation- ship, but I think he hates –the member for Concordia hates the fact that he loves to emulate the member from Steinbach. And that's what he has done with Bill 30, which we've already debated. Now we're debating the reasonable and pre-eminently good amendment.

1700 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 8, 2024 And I listened with intent when the Minister of Justice, the member –NDP member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe)–gave his speech, and I thought I might take the op portunity to rebut some of the things he said, but there was nothing memorable in it so I actually won't be able to do that. There–it's–there's nothing about his 30 minutes that stands out, other than he was angry. I would say to the member for Concordia, why are you so angry all the time? Ju st–it's your legis lation that's being debated, why are you so angry? Why do you keep heckling so loud?

And so I would say that I, again, I would like to counter some of the arguments that the NDP member for Concordia put forward. He just didn't really put any forward. I'd like to rebut some of the things he said but he said nothing memorable. So I do want to talk about the importance of the spirit and the intent of legislation dealing with wealth that was accumulated illegally. And my good former Cabinet colleague, member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen), had dealt with this.

And when this first came up, I had the opportunity to reflect on some of my political experiences, and again, I will be very cautious to this Legislature and not divulge exact addresses. But I was canvassing in my community and I came upon a home, a lot of very nice vehicles in the driveway; very nice, in fact, and a very beautiful home. And I went to the door and the door was ajar. And I'm very much an activist politician. If there's, you know–clearly, the current NDP Premier (Mr. Kinew), he likes to emulate my style; if there's somebody on the side of the road, I pull over, see if I can give assist- ance.

So I happened–I–you know, there's a question that was posed: How many tires have I changed? [interjection] The Speaker: Order, please. I'm pretty sure the member's been around here for enough years to know that he has to keep his comments some what relevant to what's being dis - cussed here. We're discussing the reasoned amend - ment, so if the member could keep his comments focused on that, it would be greatly appreciated. Mr. Schuler: You know, I have to take that –those words and take them very seriously. I should not be getting off my topic by, for instance, one of my colleagues from Waverley.

No, it's not Waverley. Wait–Whyte Ridge. An Honourable Member: St. Vital. Mr. Schuler: And I –yes, St. Vital. I should not be listening to the words coming from the member from Whyte Ridge and I will endeavour to get back on topic. I take your words seriously. An Honourable Member: Fort Whyte. Mr. Schuler: So–what did I say? Yes, the member for Fort Whyte (Mr. Khan). Yes, I've got to stop listening to the member for Fort Whyte. There we go. You know, least–at least I got it within the city. So back to the reasoned amendment and why it's important that we be dealing with whole issue.

So I walked up the driveway to go knock on the door and the door was ajar. And right away, that's a sign. I mean, sometimes people leave doors open, and I live in the community. One of the reasons why it is so safe is we do look out for each other. And, for instance, if I'm walking–going for a walk and I see the keys in the door, not that we haven't all done that, you know, I go and knock on the door and say, by the way, you left the keys in the door and people say thank you. Or you see late at night, garage door open, you go and you say, by the way, you left the garage door open.

And anyway, the door was ajar and I knocked on the door, knocked on t he door, rang the doorbell. Nobody came. Whatever possessed me, I kind of pushed the door open and I yelled in, hello, hello. And I walked in and I was in the lobby of the house and an individual runs toward me and he says, what are you doing in the house? * (15:50) I said, well your door was ajar and I'm canvassing. I'm the –that was at that time the con stituency of Springfield and on and on. And she took the brochure and said, would you please leave?

Anyway, the next election, I happened to be can- vassing with a police officer who was retired but was still involved. And he said to me, when you go on that driveway–pointed to that house with all the vehicles again, same kind of scenario–could you get some of the licence plates for me? That is the head of the Hell's Angels for Manitoba. You know, that was probably not the best choice in walking into that house four years earlier, and I don't think there was any danger of anybody breaking into that house.

May 8, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1701 That house ended up being seized, as were a lot of those vehicles, as proceeds of crime at a later time. That house was one of those items that had been seized, and it becomes very real when you see that. In fact, I was at another home in my community– this was still Springfield–and you couldn't get close to the home. It was very guarded and very–a lot of security, electronic fences and the like.

And I remember reading about that, maybe after I'd canvassed, that it was – again, I don't want to identify where the house was; that's not fair –and I –it was ano ther home that was seized. And there were nice vehicles –very nice vehicles–on the driveway, and all of that was seized as avails of crime. And it sends a message, sends a very im portant message to criminals, that you might accumulate wealth, you might accumulate assets, but when you're caught, and you will be caught –and the member for Brandon West (Mr.

Balcaen), my colleague who spent many, many years as a police officer and then ended up being police chief of the Brandon police force would know more than anybody that when it comes to organized crime, they're being watched –and when they are caught, their assets will be seized. And that money or those assets will be sold, and they will then be used for good purposes.

I know under our gov ernment, many organi- zations–the Bear Clan organi zation; The Joy Smith Foundation, which I know we've talked about here before, which deals with human trafficking–the most vile crime you can have in a society, where you take children, basically, and you traffic them for sex for money. And for anybody who's been at a Joy Smith Foundation event or participated–and I know many of my colleagues, even on the NDP benches, have been at some of those events–it is very, very troubling.

So the fact that we take assets and money that was accumulated by criminals for horrible reasons, is then sold and then is given to organi zations that basically fight them and help to get the victims of crime out of those situations and help them. And it is costly. It takes very little to get a p erson into–to be human traffic, but it takes so much to get them– The Speaker: Order, please. I cautioned the member earlier about keeping his comments relevant to the reasoned amendment. We're not discussing the bill itself; we're discussing the reasoned amendment.

So I'm going to read this whole statement that you all heard yesterday, just to remind everyone of what they're supposed to be doing here. So I've been listening carefully, and I'm not sure how the member's current comments are relevant to the reasoned amend ment we are currently debating. To be clear, we are not debating Bill 30 right now. We are debating the reasoned amend ment to the bill as listed on the Order Paper, because this House has not received satisfactory evidence or assurance that this bill is different to the existing legis lation that was brought forward and passed by this House in 2021.

So I would ask the member to please share how his remarks relate to the amendment. Mr. Schuler: Yes, and thank you for making that clear, and I will continue to try and speak accordingly that I fall within that framework. I should probably frame it out a little bit better in that, and I did get a little bit–and that one parti cular topic is particularly painful for me. I happen to know Joy Smith personally and the kind of work she does. So I take those com - ments absolutely. The amendment basically is saying that this legis- lation isn't necessary in the sense that it's legis lation that was passed already.

And the legis lation, which then takes on–and I was–and I did get myself a little lost on one of those topics. But it really does take on individuals who have acquired wealth, who have acquired even stature, who have acquired power, if you will, that that is taken away from you. And what the reasoned amend ment then says is that, but that legislation already exists. And I want to be clear that we are clearly in support of the legislation that was brought forward by our pre-eminent and esteemed colleague, the member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen), who had already brought this forward.

And in our discussions, we had discussed a not just do you want to bring down individuals who use crime. And I–primary motivation would always be wealth and accumulation of the things that wealth buys. It's also standard of living, of course. But it is stature for them, and it is also power. And the legislation that was brought in covers that. So the amendment is very clear, is that if that legislation already exists, why is it that Bill 30 was introduced? And I guess that's why so many of us struggle with this, is we get the me too, and the member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe) looks up to the member for Steinbach.

Probably wouldn't admit it right now, but looks up to him, wants to emulate his esteemed career. But there has to be a moment of pause on that because that legis lation already exists. So why just

1702 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 8, 2024 duplicate it again? Why just put, again, legis lation in that is already there, that deals with it, that the house with all the security and all the fo rtifications and all the big fancy cars and all of that. If that exists already, why would the member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe)– other than perhaps trying to flatter the member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen), and it's really not for us to speculate why the me mber–the NDP member for Concordia, why he would've put in the same legis - lation. And so the amendment asks that.

The amendment asks: Why, in fact, would you do something like that? * (16:00) And it–the amendment–and maybe there's a little flaw in the amendment. The amend ment actually doesn't give any answers to why that is. It just poses basically the question: Why would a minister of the Crown, someone who's been here for a while–in fact, he replaced Premier Gary Doer after Premier Gary Doer left. He used to be a–the member for Concordia, the Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe), used to be a staffer–staff person –constituency person, I believe, for Premier Doer, then took over as MLA.

So it's not like this is new or anything like that. He would have been here when that legislation was passed. So the reasoned amendment then asks: Why is it necessary to have another piece of legislation that does already what the member for Steinbach, when he was minister of Justice, had brought in? And we're not doubting–at no point in time would we ever question how necessary that legis lation was. In fact, I was part of a government–I was a minister of a government that brought the original legis lation in.

And I would suggest to members that it is com mu- nities like Springfield, because of its remoteness and proximity to the city of Winnipeg, that lend itself for organized crime to try to be outside the city and still have access to the city. So for me, the original legis - lation was very im portant because it had an impact, and I could explain other situations where I was out in rural areas and saw it, and those were all seized, actually, as well. And all of those monies went to help organizations.

I guess the criticism, then, is to the NDP member for Concordia, the Minister of Justice, is, in all the time that he had in opposition, and he had some; fact, he was a backbench MLA in gov ernment; he was a backbench MLA in the Selinger gov ernment. So he had time to come up with legis lation. Why would he have come up with legis lation that mirrored some - thing that he, himself, had debated? Now, I have no idea, because I don't remember exactly if the member for Concordia actually voted for the original legislation. The amendment doesn't speak to that.

The am endment doesn't ask why –how the member for Concordia, the Minister of Justice –how he voted on the original legis lation. What it does is question why is it necessary. Why is it necessary to have duplicated something that existed? And the reasoned amend ment doesn't reflect on the fact that the member for Concordia would have been here when the original legis lation was intro - duced, debated, spoken to, passed and given royal assent. So it's not like the member for Concordia wouldn't have known that it was passed.

So the reasoned amend ment doesn't reflect on those things, and–but the member for Concordia would have been–fact, there are many members of this Chamber–a few, anyway–who would have been here when the original legis lation was brought in, would have been part of it, would have seen it, would have– I suspect the members on the NDP benches probably voted against it.

So the question is –and this is the point that the reasoned amendment is trying to make–why is it that if there was already legislation that mirrors that deter- rent, and Bill 30 mirrors it, the reasoned amendment then asks: If members of the Legislature had the opportunity to have it intro duced, debated, went to committee, debated, there was opportunity for amend- ments and then royal assent, why is it that we would need to have the same legislation introduced a second time? And that is really the crux of the debate that we're having here today.

Why is it that if we went through all that work, all that effort, and yes, there is an ex - pense to it; there is an expense to legis lation being brought forward. The reasoned amendment doesn't actually reflect on the expense of just doing it a second time. What the reasoned amendment does reflect on is that it's not a necessity. Why , in fact, are we actually doing this, when it's something that exists already?

Is it, perhaps –and maybe the NDP member for Concordia, some point in time; I guess he can't speak to this again, but–could answer some of these questions, and could answer som e of the questions that the reasoned amendment raises.

May 8, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1703 Perhaps it was to raise awareness, give it even more importance, highlight it, give it more focus. But none of that seems to be the words that the NDP member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe) put on the record. So the reasoned amendment goes on and asks, why are we spending resources on some thing that's basically just a carbon copy? And I would suggest to this House, is none of those questions were ever answered. None of those questions were ever fully explained.

And maybe the reasoned amendment wouldn't have come forward, perhaps it wouldn't even have been necessary, had the member –the NDP member for Concordia –gotten up and explained what the thinking was behind it. Because there's –there doesn't seem to be a rationale behind it. There doesn't seem to be thinking behind it. And the reasoned amendment speaks to that concern, that we have before us a second bill that copies the first bill. And the reasoned amendment also goes further.

If you look at the amendment, it cautions all legislators, we are here to legislate issues that are–that may have been missed, because times change; things change. We used to, at one point in time, legis late horse and buggies; now, we legislate vehicles. So with this legis- lation, it's just a carbon copy of what was. That what we should be doing is putting forward legislation that is topical, that deals with an issue that's out in society. That deals with issues that are current.

And this reasoned amendment highlights the fact that government shouldn't just be there to just put anything forward as legislation, or maybe in the case of the member for Concordia, something. I–you know, you have to come up with something. Well, you know, the member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen) had this idea, put legis lation through. Perhaps the member for Concordia also wanted to put something through. The reasoned amendment speaks to that, if you read carefully.

And it basically warns all elected officials, when legis lation is written, it should be written for some thing that isn't covered, that's something that needs to be covered, that's some- thing that needs proper debate, that needs a proper discussion, that needs public input. And not just –because the reasoned amend ment also reflects that –and these are, now, paraphrasing– we don't always want, like, in the theatres now, in some movies there's

part 4 and

part 5 and

part 6, and it's just basically a repeat of the first one. Like, we don't want that kind of legislation. Now, i f you're trying to correct some thing–and we've see

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	43-1-53
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	43rd 1st hansardpdf 53.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	d6629e12f678bd4b0c72a1130d8186f2d2688a80

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