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November 1, 2005

38th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2005-Nov-01 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Tuesday 1 November 2005 Mardi 1 er novembre 2005

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

GOVERNMENT SPENDING

CELEBRITY WALK AND BREAKFAST

COLLEGES

CHILD CARE

NOUVELLES ÉCOLES À

GLENGARRY-PRESCOTT-RUSSELL

OPTOMETRY SERVICES

VETERANS

HOSPITAL SERVICES

COLLEGES

BOARD OF INTERNAL ECONOMY

ANNUAL REPORT, ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER OF ONTARIO

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

TRUSTEE STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE LES FIDUCIAIRES

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

VISITORS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

ECONOMIC OUTLOOK /

PERSPECTIVES ÉCONOMIQUES

DEFERRED VOTES

ADOPTION INFORMATION

DISCLOSURE ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LA DIVULGATION DE

RENSEIGNEMENTS SUR LES ADOPTIONS

VISITOR

USE OF MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

ORAL QUESTIONS

ECONOMIC OUTLOOK

FIRST NATIONS REVENUE SHARING

PROVINCIAL DEFICIT

ENERGY RATES

FOREST INDUSTRY

WATER QUALITY

NORTHERN ECONOMY

WATER QUALITY

IMMIGRANTS

TRAILS

FOREST INDUSTRY

SOUTH ASIAN COMMUNITY

PETITIONS

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

FALLSVIEW CASINO

ONTARIO FARMERS

MANDATORY RETIREMENT

CANCER TREATMENT

QUEENSWAY CARLETON HOSPITAL

MACULAR DEGENERATION

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

PROSTATE CANCER

HOSPITAL FUNDING

PROSTATE CANCER

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

MACULAR DEGENERATION

ORDERS OF THE DAY

CHILD AND FAMILY SERVICES

STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE LES SERVICES

À L'ENFANCE ET À LA FAMILLE

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

GOVERNMENT SPENDING

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): It's interesting that today Bill 197, the budget bill, is before the House. Also today, the Gomery report is

questioning Liberal spending, such as Adscam. Recently, Sorbara, Duncan, Dingwall and all Liberals have been in the media. My sister, Catherine Brooks Stevenson, sent me an interesting article,

which I would like to put on the record:

"Billions of Reasons for Concern

"Only those with nothing better to do should waste time on math, but everyone should give this some" special "thought.

"The next time a Liberal politician uses the word `billion' casually, think about whether taxpayers want that politician spending their tax money.

"A billion is a difficult number to comprehend. But one advertising agency did a good job of putting that figure into perspective in one of its releases."

It says, and it's important to listen here:

"A billion seconds ago was 1959.

"A billion minutes ago, Jesus was alive.

"A billion hours ago, it was the Stone Age.

"A billion days ago, no one walked on two feet on earth.

"A billion dollars ago was only eight hours and 20 minutes, at the rate our Liberal government" is spending.

Isn't that something worth thinking about?

I put to you, Mr. Speaker: With all the controversies and the casualness with which this government spends money, this is a worthy article, and I would ask

people to contact me to get a copy of it.

CELEBRITY WALK AND BREAKFAST

Mr. Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): On Wednesday, October 20, it was my pleasure to join with many of my constituents for the

Celebrity Walk and Breakfast, held at the Cornwall Civic Complex in my riding of Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh. Sponsored by the Cornwall Standard Freeholder and chaired by its publisher and

general manager, Milton Ellis, this annual event raises money for the Children's Treatment Centre.

This is an important centre that provides aid to children who suffer abuse. The guest speaker at the breakfast, Reverend Dale Lang from Taber, Alberta, spoke

movingly about the importance of providing support and compassion to those who have suffered abuse. You may recognize Reverend Lang as the man whose son was gunned down by another youth in the hall

of a local high school in

an act of violence precipitated by the abuse the young man faced himself.

This message of support did not fall on deaf ears. Indeed, it was well received by the local "celebrities" who donated or raised at least $100 each to attend,

and many went far beyond this. The honorary chair of the event, Sean Adams, raised $25,600. Other substantial contributions were made by Connie Vardy, Bishop Paul-André Durocher, Mike

Despatie, Raymond Shannon and the Survivors of Sexual Abuse group. When the final tally was realized, the treatment centre had raised over $144,000. That's $24,000 more than last year.

This is an important local initiative that provides much-needed help to the youth of our riding. I commend everyone who participated and invite my colleagues and

the community to join in at next year's Celebrity Walk and Breakfast.

COLLEGES

Mr. Cameron Jackson (Burlington): This week we mark College Week to celebrate the critically important role that colleges play in our

post-secondary education system and our ongoing economic strength and development. I would like to take this opportunity to welcome to Queen's Park the presidents of our 24 colleges, and

representatives of the Association of Colleges of Applied Arts and Technology of Ontario.

The challenges our colleges face are truly "seismic," in their words. Rapidly changing technology, the outsourcing of jobs and the looming skills shortage

threaten our long-term prosperity and productivity. This is why Ontario's colleges have launched Pathway to Prosperity, a province-wide consultation to examine these challenges and develop new

ideas for a comprehensive skills strategy to inform all Premiers before their meeting with Prime Minister Paul Martin later this fall to discuss the competitive skills agenda.

However, when it comes to funding post-secondary education, the McGuinty Liberals are long on multi-year funding announcements but short on detailing the

accountability frameworks on which the funding depends, as well as actual timelines for its release to the colleges. Will those accounting frameworks be like those contained in Bill 8 that led to

bed closures and nursing layoffs in our hospitals?

Until the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities can deliver on the question, "Under what conditions, and when?" with respect to college funding, he is

only adding to the burden of anxiety and frustration that Ontario's 24 colleges are facing.

CHILD CARE

Ms. Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): Very recently, Australian child care expert Lynne Wannan spoke at the Common Table for Childhood Development

and Care in Ontario. Her message: Act now to stop big box child care before it's too late. She said Australia's child care system used to be mostly public, but all that changed in 1991 when they

started a child care program just like Ontario's. Today, 70% are commercially owned, and the sector is dominated by large chains. Why? Because Australia failed to ban big box daycares. Australia's

largest chain, ABC Learning Centres, made $80 million in profits last year. Now it wants to expand into Canada.

Lynne Wannan says Australia's road-to-privatization pathway was totally unexpected: "I've come to Canada to say we [in Australia] got it wrong."

During the estimates committee, I asked the Ontario Minister of Children and Youth Services about this very issue. I asked her what she was prepared to do to

prevent this from happening in Ontario. Would she make a clear, iron-clad commitment and back it up to the fullest to make sure big box daycare is not coming to Ontario? Her answer: She agreed it

was a concern, she made all the right noises about stopping big box daycare in Ontario, but when pressed, she would not agree to legislation. In fact, all she would say is that the province signs

the cheques, and therefore will not fund them. How naive.

This is the problem, the mistake that Australia made, and we have a chance to learn from their experience. The Australian experience shows good intentions are

not good enough. The McGuinty government must act today and ban public funds from being used to expand for-profit daycare in Ontario.

NOUVELLES ÉCOLES À

GLENGARRY-PRESCOTT-RUSSELL

M. Jean-Marc Lalonde (Glengarry-Prescott-Russell): J'ai une très bonne nouvelle à partager avec vous tous aujourd'hui. En effet, le

mois dernier, j'ai participé à l'ouverture officielle de trois nouvelles écoles dans la belle circonscription de Glengarry-Prescott-Russell. Quel beau témoignage de confiance du

gouvernement McGuinty. Quel important investissement pour l'avenir de notre jeunesse.

Le 4 octobre dernier, c'était l'ouverture de l'École élémentaire catholique de l'Ange-Gardien de North Lancaster; le 18 octobre, l'ouverture

de l'École secondaire catholique Le Relais d'Alexandria; et le 28 octobre, j'ai participé à l'ouverture de l'École élémentaire et secondaire publique L'Académie

de La Seigneurie à Casselman.

Je tiens à remercier le ministre de l'Éducation, l'honorable Gerard Kennedy. J'aimerais également souligner ma fierté et ma reconnaissance

envers tous ceux et celles qui ont travaillé sans relâche afin de garantir et d'offrir à la communauté franco-ontarienne une éducation et une formation accessibles,

appropriées et de qualité.

Finalement, je désire souligner ma fierté pour le cheminement que les élèves de ces trois écoles ont déjà accompli, et je les

encourage à continuer leur recherche du savoir pour développer davantage le plaisir d'apprendre. Encore une fois, permettez-moi d'exprimer ma fierté et ma reconnaissance pour ces

trois nouvelles écoles francophones chez nous.

OPTOMETRY SERVICES

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): Today marks the anniversary of one of more than 50 Liberal broken promises. One year ago the

McGuinty government, in a very short-sighted move, delisted primary eye care services for adults between the ages of 19 and 64, thus breaking their promise to provide universal, accessible health

care to all Ontarians. People must now pay out of their pocket for eye care services.

For a government that has focused so much attention on health promotion and prevention, to the point they are even paying for a minister, it is ironic they have

cut funding for primary eye care services that do just that: prevent sight-threatening diseases such as macular degeneration, glaucoma and diabetes. We know this government is failing to

appropriately invest in primary eye health and vision care services that optometrists today provide to patients. Early detection of eye disease is absolutely critical to the successful treatment of

many conditions.

It is time this government recognized the importance of providing the resources in order that eye problems can be detected early and appropriate treatment be

provided so that people avoid permanent vision loss.

VETERANS

Mr. Dave Levac (Brant): In Ontario, we take time during the first part of November to honour those veterans who fought for our country, our

freedom and for peace during the many conflicts of the last century, and particularly those who lost their lives in war and peacekeeping missions. For many, the most visible way in which we

remember our veterans is to wear a poppy. Brantford resident Stan Wawzonek started a tradition wherein we ask servicemen and women to wear two poppies to make it easier for us to say thank you to

these veterans.

In my riding I have been honoured over the last eight years to be associated with the Thank-A-Vet luncheon to express our appreciation to the veterans of

Brantford, Brant and Six Nations/New Credit. This is the largest event of its kind in Canada and sees the attendance of over 650 veterans and widows who come for a complimentary lunch and a chance

to meet friends and share their memories. The event continues to be a huge success due to the efforts of the Thank-A-Vet committee and the many volunteers, patrons, students, sponsors and city

officials who donate their time, energy and money to make this event happen.

I encourage all members of this House and of this province to thank a veteran, and veterans everywhere, but particularly in their own riding. What is most

important: We will remember.

HOSPITAL SERVICES

Mr. Brad Duguid (Scarborough Centre): Just over a week ago, I had to take my son Kennedy to Scarborough Hospital following a knee injury in

hockey practice earlier that night. I have two bits of good news to share with members here. The first is that Kennedy suffered just a strained knee ligament and he's already back on the ice. The

second is the fact that I was able to experience at first hand the significant improvements to health care brought forward by the McGuinty government, right in my own backyard.

Following an X-ray taken at Scarborough Hospital, I was invited by Dr. C. Tyu to a room with a large computer screen. Dr. Tyu said to me that he was not giving

me special treatment, but that due to an investment made by the McGuinty government he was about to show me an example of how health care in Ontario was improving.

Some time ago the McGuinty government invested in a new project at Scarborough Hospital called PACS, which stands for picture archiving communications system.

This is an electronic network that allows the digital transmission, storage, display and retrieval of medical images such as X-rays, MRIs and mammograms.

Upon taking the picture of my son's knee, it was placed into a secure Internet site where it was immediately made available to the physician treating my son in

emergency. It could have been immediately made available and easily accessed by my family doctor or a specialist at any time. We were able to do in minutes what used to take hours. This not only

saves time, it saves money as well through quicker results, without the need to develop film, and the doctor does not physically have to be with the patient to interpret the test results.

The installation of the PAC system at Scarborough Hospital is one example of many demonstrating how the McGuinty government is making a difference in the lives

of Ontarians.

COLLEGES

Mr. Jeff Leal (Peterborough): Today is Colleges Day at the Legislature and a wonderful opportunity to recognize the important role that our

colleges play as leaders in learning.

Colleges are celebrating their 40th anniversary this year. In those 40 years, more than one million people have graduated from Ontario colleges -- people who

have helped to drive economic growth and make this province a better place to live.

Our 24 colleges are an accessible option to quality post-secondary education in Ontario. The options for education and training are many and varied at the 100

campuses located all across this province.

Our colleges deliver modern, technically advanced programs leading to certificates, diplomas or applied degrees, as well as in-class apprenticeship training.

This in turn leads to quality, high-paying jobs such as animation artist and biotechnologist. That's why our college system plays such a key role in Reaching Higher: The McGuinty Government Plan

for Postsecondary Education. Reaching Higher is the largest multi-year investment for Ontario's higher education system since the founding of this system.

The $6.2 billion in funding is an unprecedented new investment in Ontario's colleges, universities and training system. The college in my home of Peterborough,

Sir Sanford Fleming College, received $4.2 million in new capital money this spring. These funds are part of a $250-million capital injection made to the province's post-secondary education. Sir

Sanford used the money to upgrade its heating, ventilation and cooling system to make it more environmentally and economically efficient. It also totally renovated its chemistry labs, which will

support increased enrolment in health programs.

We know that the key to success in a competitive growth economy is our community college system.

BOARD OF INTERNAL ECONOMY

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): I beg to inform the House that I have laid upon the table a copy of an order in council appointing the

Honourable James Bradley, MPP, as a commissioner to the Board of Internal Economy, appointed by the Lieutenant Governor in Council from among the members of the executive council in the place of

the Honourable Dwight Duncan, MPP.

ANNUAL REPORT, ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSIONER OF ONTARIO

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): I beg to inform the House that I have today laid upon the table the 2004-05 annual report of the

Environmental Commissioner of Ontario.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

TRUSTEE STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE LES FIDUCIAIRES

Mr. Klees moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 17,

An Act to amend the Trustee Act and the Limitations Act, 2002 with respect to a limitation period for actions for wrongful death and other estate

matters / Projet de loi 17, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les fiduciaires et la Loi de 2002 sur la prescription des actions en ce qui concerne le délai de prescription pour les actions

engagées à la suite d'un décès dû à un acte délictuel et d'autres questions relatives au patrimoine.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The member may have a brief statement.

Mr. Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): Jennifer Dawson was infected with HIV through tainted blood and died of transfusion-associated AIDS at the age of

40. She is survived by three children -- Tamara Lynne, Julie Anne and Mathew Patrick.

Their father, Patrick Dawson, brought to my attention a defect in Ontario's limitations law that precludes wrongful death claims unless the tort is discovered

within two years of death. This bill before us rectifies that defect by amending

section 38 of the Trustee Act to provide for the limitation period for an action to expire on the second anniversary

of the day on which a claim was actually discovered, rather than the second anniversary of the day of death.

The adoption of this amendment will allow the Dawson family to apply for compensation that was made available to other persons and estates that were affected by

HIV blood through blood transfusions under a plan by the Red Cross that was established under a federal bankruptcy law. This amendment will bring Ontario's law into line with every other province

in Canada, and I do hope all members of the Legislature will support this important legislation.

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

Hon. James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism, minister responsible for seniors, Government House Leader): I move that, pursuant to standing

order 9(c)(i), the House shall meet from 6:45 p.m. to 9:30 p.m. on Tuesday, November 1, 2005, for the purpose of considering government business.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All in favour will say "aye."

All opposed will say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1351 to 1356.

The Speaker: All those in favour will rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Arthurs, Wayne

Baird, John R.

Barrett, Toby

Bartolucci, Rick

Bentley, Christopher

Bountrogianni, Marie

Bradley, James J.

Brownell, Jim

Bryant, Michael

Cansfield, Donna H.

Caplan, David

Chambers, Mary Anne V.

Colle, Mike

Cordiano, Joseph

Craitor, Kim

Crozier, Bruce

Delaney, Bob

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duguid, Brad

Duncan, Dwight

Flaherty, Jim

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Gerretsen, John

Gravelle, Michael

Hardeman, Ernie

Hoy, Pat

Hudak, Tim

Jackson, Cameron

Jeffrey, Linda

Kennedy, Gerard

Klees, Frank

Kular, Kuldip

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Leal, Jeff

Levac, Dave

Marsales, Judy

Martiniuk, Gerry

Mauro, Bill

McGuinty, Dalton

McMeekin, Ted

McNeely, Phil

Meilleur, Madeleine

Miller, Norm

Milloy, John

Mitchell, Carol

Mossop, Jennifer F.

Munro, Julia

O'Toole, John

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Parsons, Ernie

Patten, Richard

Peterson, Tim

Phillips, Gerry

Pupatello, Sandra

Qaadri, Shafiq

Racco, Mario G.

Ramal, Khalil

Ramsay, David

Rinaldi, Lou

Runciman, Robert W.

Sandals, Liz

Sergio, Mario

Smitherman, George

Sterling, Norman W.

Takhar, Harinder S.

Tascona, Joseph N.

Tory, John

Van Bommel, Maria

Watson, Jim

Witmer, Elizabeth

Wong, Tony C.

Wynne, Kathleen O.

Yakabuski, John

Zimmer, David

The Speaker: All those opposed will please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Bisson, Gilles

Churley, Marilyn

Horwath, Andrea

Kormos, Peter

Martel, Shelley

Murdoch, Bill

Prue, Michael

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 75; the nays are 7.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

VISITORS

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): I want to bring to the members' attention, in the Speaker's gallery, the mayor of Manitouwadge, Darrell

Chisholm, and the mayor of Winnie the Pooh's hometown, White River, Roger Drolet.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

ECONOMIC OUTLOOK /

PERSPECTIVES ÉCONOMIQUES

Hon. Dwight Duncan (Minister of Finance, Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): I rise to present the 2005 Economic Outlook and Fiscal

Review.

It has been said that leadership requires equal parts optimism and realism, that we need to be optimistic enough to seize the opportunities before us and

realistic enough to face the challenges. At the midway point of our first mandate, we are confident about Ontario's future.

À mi-chemin de notre premier mandat, nous envisageons l'avenir de l'Ontario avec optimisme.

Ontario's economy is performing solidly. A number of sectors are doing well, employment is up, and growth is better than expected. Since we have taken office,

Ontario businesses have created more than 193,000 new jobs. The current consensus of private sector forecasts for Ontario's real growth in 2005 has increased from 2.3% at the time of the budget to

2.5% today. We anticipate continued solid growth in 2006 and 2007.

We are confident as well that our plan is the right plan to secure Ontario's future prosperity.

Nous sommes aussi confiants d'avoir le bon plan pour assurer la prospérité future de l'Ontario.

We are working with the people of this province to enhance Ontario's economic advantage by strengthening the education and skills of our people, improving

their health, fostering innovation, leveraging diversity, and insuring we get the fundamentals, including energy and infrastructure, right. We are making these investments in our future prosperity

at the same time as we are reducing the province's deficit.

This government is providing strong and prudent financial management.

Nous avons instauré une gestion financière rigoureuse et prudente.

Winston Churchill once said, "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results." Premier McGuinty and his government are all about

results, and the results are good for Ontario. Let me tell you about it, Mr. Speaker.

Our economic foundations are firm and the outlook is positive, though challenges lie ahead. This year, there has been strong job growth in information and

culture, wholesale and retail trade, education, finance, insurance, real estate and construction. Unemployment is expected to average 6.7%, the lowest since 2001. Retail spending is up, the housing

market remains robust, and overall real consumer spending is also on the rise.

Ontario's auto sector continues to be a top producer in North America, with $4.5 billion in new investments, including a new Toyota plant, which have secured

over 19,000 jobs and are creating 1,800 new jobs.

Ontario is also North America's second-largest employer of information and communications technology workers. It is the business and head office capital of

Canada. The province's financial and business services sectors are performing well.

With some of the world's best theatre and cultural attractions, this is the national hub for the arts. Employment in film and the media is on the rise as a

result of this government's policies.

Turning to our resources, the mining sector has a promising future, with strong global demand generating higher mineral prices. On the other hand, forestry

faces enormous challenges. In response, our government has committed an unprecedented $680 million in support to help this sector compete globally, and we're confident they will compete

globally.

The agri-food industry has seen improved market prices, though farmers have needed support through marketing, innovation and income safety nets.

Dans son ensemble, l'économie ontarienne se porte bien.

Overall, our economy is doing well.

In light of the growth in the economy this year, we have increased our own projection for real GDP growth from 2% to 2.2%. The government is working hard to

ensure that Ontario is prepared to weather any challenges that may lie ahead by bolstering the foundations of economic growth.

We are investing in the education and skills of our people, from the early years to our historic $6.2-billion investment in universities, colleges and training

programs. To win the innovation race, we are making strategic investments in research and development through our newly created Ontario research fund.

Ontario should be the first to discover new ideas, the first to turn them into new products and services, and the first to market those products and services

to the world, and because of this government's policies, we will.

We are also working to leverage our greatest strength -- our diversity -- by attracting the best and brightest from around the world and fully integrating them

into our society and economy.

We are working to get the fundamentals right.

New electricity generation capacity is on the way. Currently, there are more than 9,000 megawatts at various stages of development -- enough power for 4.1

million homes. We are on target to meet our goal of 5% renewable generation by 2007, we're taking action to ensure that prices are competitive, and new smart meters will eventually help everyone

conserve energy.

In the 2005 budget, we announced $30 billion in an infrastructure investment plan. Since then, we have announced new road upgrades to highways across Ontario,

and we have announced or broken ground at affordable housing projects in Waterloo, Guelph, Hamilton, Brantford, Vaughan, Peterborough and Kingston.

To help speed up the movement of people and goods, we have announced improvements to border crossings at Windsor, Sarnia and Niagara.

To date, the Ontario Strategic Infrastructure Financing Authority has committed to provide up to $2.1 billion in low-cost financing to 170 municipalities for

more than 1,100 local municipal infrastructure works projects.

We have begun hospital expansions or renovations in Sudbury, London, Oakville, Barrie, Almonte, Ottawa, Belleville, Mississauga and Toronto, as well as

announcing a new hospital for the St. Catharines-Niagara region.

At the same time, we are improving the health of our people by reducing wait times for key medical procedures and expanding access to doctors, nurses and other

health care professionals.

Turning now to our fiscal plan, I would like to update you on our progress.

Notre objectif d'éliminer le déficit dont nous avons hérité est en voie d'être atteint. We are on track to eliminate the deficit we

inherited.

Higher-than-anticipated revenues allow us to project the 2005-06 deficit to be $2.4 billion. That's a $427-million improvement from our 2005 budget projection.

If the reserve is not required, the deficit is projected to be $1.4 billion. Although we are slightly ahead of plan this year, in light of what we know about the risks that our economy faces, we

are not revising our deficit-elimination target. As was stated in the 2005 budget, the deficit will be eliminated no later than 2008-09, or a year earlier, in 2007-08, if the reserve is not

required.

Our balanced, responsible approach to eliminating the deficit, while continuing to make essential investments in education, health and the economy, is working

for Ontarians. We must continue, however, to manage the province's finances prudently. Overall, our expenditures are on target and our plan is disciplined. Our prudent approach to expenditures will

be even more important now to help us ensure that we are equally prepared for the challenges that lie ahead.

While we are optimistic about economic growth, it is important to remember that there are clouds on the horizon. These are risks that are beyond our control.

The Canadian dollar hit a 13-year high in September; oil prices have increased dramatically; and the US economic outlook faces challenges. As a result, private sector forecasters have decreased

their estimates for Ontario's GDP growth in 2006 from an average of 2.9% to 2.6%. We have also reduced our projection from 2.8% to 2.6%. The forecast is still positive for Ontario. We still

anticipate solid economic growth; indeed, growth that is better than this year.

The US economy has continued to grow at a strong pace, remaining close to our projections in the 2005 budget. The devastation caused by Hurricanes Katrina,

Rita and Wilma has disrupted the US economy, although rebuilding effort will likely stimulate activity in the final months of 2005 and early 2006. While the US economy also faces risks, forecasters

are, on balance, optimistic that growth will continue at a healthy pace.

The most significant change this year has been the price of oil. At the time of our 2005 budget, forecasters projected that crude prices would average US$49.10

a barrel in 2005. Since then, prices and projections have risen sharply.

Another challenge going forward is the value of our dollar. The average forecast for the Canadian dollar is over US84 cents in 2006, two cents higher than

projected earlier this year. For Ontarians visiting the United States, this is positive. For Ontario companies making capital machinery investments to improve productivity, this is good news. It

does, however, make it harder for Ontario exporters to compete. We've seen that exporters are responding to the challenge by increasing productivity, lowering costs and shifting toward

higher-value-added products. As a result, in the short term, export volumes are expected to increase marginally.

There is a considerable difference of opinion about the future path of the dollar, but it is unlikely that the dollar will decline significantly in value in

the short term. Overall, the economy must, and will, adjust to this new reality.

Another challenge to the economy is the $23-billion gap between what Ontarians contribute to the federal government and what they receive in return. We will

continue to seek a full and effective partnership with the federal government to address the issue of this gap.

This year, in accordance with the Fiscal Transparency and Accountability Act, we have added some new features to the fall report. These include an estimate of

tax expenditures as well as information on how Ontarians can contribute their ideas as we prepare our next budget. We are committed to accountability and transparency because they contribute to a

stronger, more informed democracy.

We are proud of the progress Ontario is making.

Nous sommes fiers des progrès que l'Ontario accomplit.

We are realistic about the challenges we will face.

We are optimistic that, with our plan, Ontarians can and will succeed.

Working together we can, and we will, seize the almost limitless opportunities of the 21st century.

We can, and we will, build a quality of life that is second to none.

Nous allons donner à l'Ontario une qualité de vie incomparable.

We can, and we will, fulfill the aspirations that Ontarians share, for our province, our country, and most of all, for our children and our children's

children.

This government is making progress. We're on track. We're sticking to the plan. We're delivering real results, just as we said we would.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Response?

Mr. Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): What's plain today is that under new Liberal Finance Minister Dwight Duncan, the deficit is going up. What an

inauspicious debut for the new finance minister. Greg Sorbara left a deficit of $1.6 billion in 2004-05. Today, the minister reports a deficit of $2.4 billion. Dwight Duncan increased the deficit

by 50% in two weeks' time.

The McGuinty Liberal government has raked and clawed in from Ontario taxpayers some additional $13 billion in new revenues. Despite that massive revenue grab,

there's no break for hard-pressed Ontario taxpayers, no stimulation for businesses struggling to create jobs in Ontario. This debut by the finance minister is going to go over like a flat $9 Diet

Coke.

Today in Ottawa, Justice Gomery reported on an irresponsible Liberal spending spree, and today in Ontario, Dwight Duncan is reporting on irresponsible Liberal

spending in our province. Clearly, the reason the McGuinty Liberals are hiding behind the skirts of the Gomery report today is because there is no good news for hard-pressed taxpayers to make ends

meet in Dalton McGuinty's Ontario; no good news for hard-pressed businesses worried about the economy, businesses hesitating to invest in new jobs or expansion in our province. Despite massive new

revenue through higher taxes and fees, the McGuinty Liberals still cannot get through their voracious appetite to continue to spend taxpayer dollars.

Let me tell you about this. We all grew up in a province that was the leader, the lead province, the engine of growth in this country, proud to be part of the

powerhouse economy that pulled the rest of Canada forward. Every Canadian --

Interjections.

The Speaker: Stop the clock. Member for Erie-Lincoln.

Mr. Hudak: Our province was the envy of every Canadian, but not so in Dalton McGuinty's Ontario, not so today, not so in 2005. Economic

indicators continue to show our economy, which used to be the leader in Canada, continuing to fall behind competitive states and other provinces.

Statistics Canada recently reported that housing starts have decreased by 16.7%. However, nine of the 12 areas in the entire country that showed that decline

are in Ontario: Windsor, Hamilton, Toronto, Sudbury, London, Ottawa, St. Catharines, Niagara, Kingston and Thunder Bay.

Retail sales are falling way behind the national average. The hospitality industry reports their sales are behind the national average. In March, the CFIB

released a survey indicating that business confidence in Ontario remains flat. Sadder still, for the first time since World War II, for five consecutive months Ontario's unemployment rate has been

above the national average. That has not happened in 60 years. Under this government's watch, 42,000 manufacturing jobs have been lost in this year alone.

The minister says there are clouds on the horizon. There's a perfect storm gathering for Ontario consumers: Hydro rates are going through the roof; Dalton

McGuinty has increased taxes substantially on working families; home heating costs are going up; gasoline costs are far higher than they've been in a long time; drivers' licence fees; eye exams.

The average working family in Dalton McGuinty's Ontario is paying $2,000 more a year than before Dalton McGuinty, let alone seniors and young people trying to get ahead. It's simply unaffordable.

Dalton McGuinty and the new finance minister continue to take more and more money out of their pockets.

We would have thought on this side of the House, with a $13-billion windfall, that there would be some break for working families, for taxpayers in our

province, that there would have been some initiative to stimulate job growth and investment in an economy that looks like it's in jeopardy. But instead, we see job losses, higher unemployment,

higher hydro, higher taxes, and out-of-control spending, resulting in a 50% deficit increase on the new minister and $2,000 less in each working family's pockets in our province. That is the real

economic outlook that the McGuinty government has delivered to Ontarians today, one sadly very unpromising for Ontario's working families.

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): I want to begin to respond to the government's statement by saying that people across Ontario should

wonder why the McGuinty government is presenting their economic statement on the day when the Gomery Commission is reporting all the nefarious activities of the Liberal Party at the federal level.

I think there's only one reason: This is a government that is trying to bury the story about their economic statement. Why are they trying to bury it? Consider it from the perspective of the

ordinary Ontarian. Consider it from the perspective of somebody out there who's working harder, working longer, and yet, at the end of the month, they find they're having a harder time paying the

bills.

Think about the average Ontarian who heard Dalton McGuinty say he was going to freeze electricity prices. What they've seen are double-digit increases in

electricity rates from the McGuinty government. Think about the average Ontarian who heard the Minister of Tourism, Mr. Bradley, say he had a plan to control gasoline prices. The Minister of

Northern Development, Mr. Bartolucci, too had a plan to control gasoline prices. Mr. Colle, the Minister of Immigration, too had a plan to control gasoline prices. The Premier said he had a plan to

control gasoline prices. Now that they're the government, gas prices, heating prices --

Interjections.

The Speaker: Stop the clock. I can wait. Order. I need to be able to hear the leader of the third party.

Mr. Hampton: I think too of people who heard Dalton McGuinty say there would be no cuts to health care under a McGuinty government, and now,

if they have to see an optometrist, they pay out of their pocket. If they need to see a physiotherapist, they pay out of their pocket. If they need chiropractic care, they pay out of their pocket.

Why? Because the Premier who promised no cuts to health care has cut those health care services.

Think about the people who heard the McGuinty government say that they recognize that Ontario's property tax assessment system was all messed up and they were

going to fix it. Now they're getting property tax assessments that are increasing not by 10%, not by 15%, but by 30%, 40% and 50%, and the McGuinty government says, "Oh, there's nothing we can do."

Then, think about the people who heard Premier McGuinty, looking into the television camera, say, "I won't raise your taxes." Now they're paying an unfair and regressive health tax that hits

lowest- and modest-income families the hardest.

A modest-income family with an income of $35,000 a year is paying through the nose. Somebody who has an income of $1 million under the McGuinty health tax gets

off lightly. That's the perspective of the average working Ontarian, and they will know why the McGuinty government is trying to bury their economic statement on the day that the Gomery commission

reports.

All we need to do is look at some of Ontario's leading companies and hear what they have to say. Dofasco, one of our main manufacturers, is very clear. They

said -- get this -- they've lowered their use of electricity by 23% through conservation, but their electricity costs have gone up by more than 50%. They say to the government that this is creating

real problems for them as a major Ontario manufacturer and for all Ontario manufacturers. They point out, "We are asking the government to do everything possible and sustainable to make Ontario's

electricity costs competitive -- to keep Ontario a competitive place to do business."

They say, "It has become a significant issue for us.... We look at other jurisdictions where we do business, and in some cases Ontario's electricity costs are

double, with a lot more volatility...."

This, to me, doesn't suggest good news; this suggests that the 42,000 manufacturing jobs that have already been lost under the McGuinty government are about to

be eclipsed by the loss of more manufacturing jobs.

Let me refer to the forest sector, which says the same things. We're looking here at the loss, potentially, of 75,000 manufacturing jobs. They are very clear.

They want the McGuinty government to develop a fair and rational electricity policy, not one which forces paper mills and pulp mills to pay four times the cost of electricity --

The Speaker: Thank you.

DEFERRED VOTES

ADOPTION INFORMATION

DISCLOSURE ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LA DIVULGATION DE

RENSEIGNEMENTS SUR LES ADOPTIONS

Deferred vote on the motion for third reading of Bill 183,

An Act respecting the disclosure of information and records to adopted persons and birth

parents / Projet de loi 183, Loi traitant de la divulgation de renseignements et de dossiers aux personnes adoptées et à leurs pères ou mères de sang.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Call in the members. This will be a 5-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1428 to 1433.

The Speaker: All those in favour will please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Arthurs, Wayne

Bartolucci, Rick

Bentley, Christopher

Bisson, Gilles

Bountrogianni, Marie

Bradley, James J.

Brownell, Jim

Bryant, Michael

Cansfield, Donna H.

Caplan, David

Chambers, Mary Anne V.

Churley, Marilyn

Colle, Mike

Cordiano, Joseph

Craitor, Kim

Crozier, Bruce

Dhillon, Vic

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duguid, Brad

Duncan, Dwight

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Gerretsen, John

Gravelle, Michael

Hampton, Howard

Horwath, Andrea

Hoy, Pat

Jeffrey, Linda

Kennedy, Gerard

Kormos, Peter

Kular, Kuldip

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Leal, Jeff

Levac, Dave

Marchese, Rosario

Marsales, Judy

Martel, Shelley

Matthews, Deborah

McGuinty, Dalton

McMeekin, Ted

McNeely, Phil

Meilleur, Madeleine

Milloy, John

Mitchell, Carol

Mossop, Jennifer F.

Orazietti, David

Parsons, Ernie

Patten, Richard

Peterson, Tim

Phillips, Gerry

Prue, Michael

Pupatello, Sandra

Qaadri, Shafiq

Racco, Mario G.

Ramal, Khalil

Ramsay, David

Rinaldi, Lou

Sandals, Liz

Sergio, Mario

Smith, Monique

Smitherman, George

Sorbara, Gregory S.

Takhar, Harinder S.

Van Bommel, Maria

Watson, Jim

Wong, Tony C.

Wynne, Kathleen O.

Zimmer, David

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. All those opposed will please rise one at a time and be recognized.

Nays

Arnott, Ted

Barrett, Toby

Flaherty, Jim

Hardeman, Ernie

Hudak, Tim

Jackson, Cameron

Klees, Frank

Martiniuk, Gerry

Munro, Julia

Murdoch, Bill

O'Toole, John

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Runciman, Robert W.

Scott, Laurie

Sterling, Norman W.

Tascona, Joseph N.

Tory, John

Witmer, Elizabeth

Yakabuski, John

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 68; the nays are 19.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

VISITOR

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): Mr. Speaker, on a point of order and with your indulgence: I rise today

to recognize a truly special Ontarian. Rita Buffalo, who is in the members' gallery to your left, is the first Ontarian ever to receive the Council of the Federation Literacy Award.

Just briefly, growing up, Ms. Buffalo received very little formal education, but as an adult she enrolled in a basic skills and literacy class, improving so

much that she qualified for college in only four years. In 2002, she graduated with honours. Today, she is a literacy coordinator for the same program that helped her. She now helps others reach

their full potential. She's an inspiration to all of us, and on behalf of all Ontarians, I congratulate her.

USE OF MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

Mr. Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: Yesterday, the member for Guelph-Wellington contravened established

precedents in this House when, as parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services, she presented what amounted to a government announcement in this House.

During members' statements, she announced the wholly inadequate financial commitment of the government to the townships of Centre Wellington and Mapleton,

which doesn't go far enough to assist these communities with their costs related to the devastating tornadoes that struck our area on August 19.

As parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Community Safety, which, of course, is the ministry responsible for emergency services and response, it is

inappropriate that the government used the member for Guelph-Wellington to publicly announce for the first time its insufficient commitment to my communities. Of course, by making the announcement

during members' statements, the opposition parties did not have an opportunity to respond in this House. This is why there is an established precedent upheld repeatedly by a number of Speakers

which says a parliamentary assistant should not be permitted to make a member's statement which falls under the responsibility of the ministry he or she is affiliated with.

This is the first available opportunity I have had to present this in the House, and I would ask that you clarify this matter for all members so as to ensure

that the government doesn't continue to use the time reserved for members' statements for government announcements, contrary to the established precedents of this place.

Mrs. Liz Sandals (Guelph-Wellington): On the same point of order, Mr. Speaker: I would like to point out that the announcement in question was

not from the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services. The announcement was on behalf of the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, as was the cheque, and the letters had been

sent to the mayors of the municipalities in question on a previous occasion.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): I appreciate the point of order. I will take it under advisement and get back to the member.

ORAL QUESTIONS

ECONOMIC OUTLOOK

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Premier. Under the cover of the Gomery report into the Liberal sponsorship

scandal, your government has today delivered --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): We're off to a bad start. I need to be able to hear the Leader of the Opposition and other members. We

need to show respect for the people who have the floor.

Mr. Tory: Your government has today delivered an economic update that the Acting Premier yesterday called "very good news for the people of

Ontario." The minister today referred to "very good results." I guess it's very good results if you're the government, because the only thing that's really up is taxes, up by hundreds of millions

of dollars. If you compare today's statement to your own budget, I say to the Premier, GDP growth is projected to be down, housing starts are in decline, retail sales are going down next year,

personal income is going down next year, job creation is going down next year, wages and salaries are going down next year, and corporate profits are going down next year.

My question is this: I don't know where it fits within the "very good news" that we have lost 42,000 manufacturing jobs in Ontario in the past year. Can you

point to one single initiative we heard about today in your economic statement that will directly address the fate of those 42,000 families, the companies they work for, and the communities they

live in -- one thing?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): Obviously, I cannot possibly share the very negative, pessimistic outlook

brought by my friend opposite when it comes to opportunities and prosperity in the province of Ontario. He cannot have had the opportunity recently to interact with business, for example, which

has, as a result of its efforts, generated 193,100 new jobs since we've had the privilege of forming the government, and the fact that our economic growth has exceeded expectations during the first

half of 2005. So we are increasing our growth assumption from 2.0% to 2.2%, some 193,100 new jobs; and our assumptions with respect to growth are on the rise. We think that's a pretty good

record.

Mr. Tory: Well, in fact, the assumptions with respect to growth are not on the rise. If you look at your budget of earlier this year and the

statement today, GDP growth is down, housing starts are down, retail sales are down, personal income is down, and job creation is down. All of those things are going down if you compare this

statement today to the budget earlier this year.

Now, there was also in the statement today absolutely no relief, notwithstanding your windfall of money, for the hard-working families who are paying $2,000

more each in taxes imposed by the McGuinty Liberals since they came to office. Do you consider it very good news, I ask the Premier, that families are working harder and falling behind, and that

you couldn't find your way clear to put one thing in this economic statement to provide some relief for those families that are paying $2,000 more in taxes and charges of various kinds since the

McGuinty Liberals came to office? Not one thing for them. Is that good news?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: Again, I just don't share the doom-and-gloom outlook brought by the leader of the official opposition, and it's not

something that I would hazard to say is shared, either -- his perspective of it, that is -- by the people of Ontario. They are working hard, and as I say, they've generated 193,100 new jobs.

I can tell you that when I speak to Ontarians, either families or businesses alike, they are very enthusiastic about the fact that we managed to find $6.2

billion that we're investing into training, colleges and universities. That's the way of the future: developing our human capital. I think Ontarians are confident and pleased with the direction

they themselves are pursuing.

Mr. Tory: In your economic statement today you claim to have identified $407 million in program review savings on your four-year target of

$750 million, which itself is less than a 1% saving. I notice these claimed savings you found come with a very precise number: It's not $408 million and it's not $406 million; it's $407 million. My

question to the Premier is this: With this very precise number there is obviously a very precise list that totals $407 million. Will you table that list in this Legislature tomorrow so that we can

all see how it is you've achieved those savings of $407 million?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I am proud of the efforts we are making to realize efficiencies and find savings so that any precious tax dollars we have

can be devoted to ensuring that we're getting real, positive results for Ontarians. I know the leader of the official opposition doesn't like to hear this because it's good news. I want to say it

again: 193,100 new jobs; retail sales are 5.1% ahead of last year; Ontario new vehicle sales are 4% ahead of last year's pace; Ontario home resales rose 10.8% in August; manufacturing shipments

have jumped 5.7% to almost $27 billion and that's the highest level in 12 months. The Minister of Finance said a few moments ago that we have the lowest level of unemployment now since --

Hon. Dwight Duncan (Minister of Finance, Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): Since 2001.

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: Since 2001. I think the numbers speak for themselves. Ontarians are confident in their economy.

Mr. Tory: My question is to the Premier and it again concerns the economic statement. Earlier today a coalition of northern Ontario mayors and

business and forestry industry leaders were here urging you to act further to address the crisis situation faced in communities across the north with respect to their industry and others. They have

clearly stated, and they did clearly state to us this morning, that your current initiatives are not enough. Since 2002 the forest industry has shed more than 5,000 direct jobs, and according to a

CIBC report on the pulp and paper sector, "Ontario has the dubious distinction as the leading province in Canada ... when it comes to job loss and mill closures."

The coalition visiting here today asked you, the Premier, and your government to guarantee there would be no increased charges and fees, no new charges and

fees and no more burdensome regulations until these issues are addressed and the forestry situation improves. Are you prepared to make that commitment even though there wasn't a word of this in

your statement today? Are you prepared to make the commitment they ask for in respect to charges and fees and regulations?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: We acknowledge that the forest sector is a major contributor to Ontario's economy, not just in the north but here in the

south as well. We also, I think, all understand that the forestry sector is undergoing an international shake-up. Rather than sit on our hands, we have put together a package of $680 million. That

strategy consists of a $150-million forest sector prosperity fund, $28 million annually to help support maintenance of primary access roads, $10 million by way of a new annual inventory program, a

$1-million annual Ontario Works promotion program, and this is on top of a $350 million loan guarantee program -- $680 million. What I would ask my friend opposite to do, and the leader of the NDP

as well, is to call upon the federal government. We've thrown down the gauntlet. We've asked them to match this program. We think working together we can do a lot for the forestry sector in

Ontario.

Mr. Tory: I ask the Premier: Have you phoned the Prime Minister and asked him personally whether he would come on board to match your

initiative? Have you bothered to do that? Why don't you tell us?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I did, in fact, speak with the Prime Minister on the weekend. We spoke specifically about issues pertaining to Kashechewan

and the affected families there. However, I would suggest to the leader of the official opposition that if he would like to prepare a list of issuess that he would like me to raise, strictly by way

of phone calls, I will see if I can work it into my schedule.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. Order. Stop the clock.

Leader of the Opposition.

Mr. Tory: The fact of the matter is, it's your job to prepare that list and to make the calls, and you're not making them. Nothing whatsoever

can cover up for that.

Another subject you might put on that list is farming. Again, in the statement today, nothing but disappointment: 76% of Ontario's farm and agri-business

members reported a decline in farm income in the past year, fuel costs have risen for 82% of those surveyed, and insurance costs are up for 75%. Premier, these are real people living on farms and

in rural communities across this province, and they're finding it difficult to make ends meet. Last week, they called for a substantial amount of help from you, and in the budget, you literally

bragged about cutting the budget of the Ministry of Agriculture.

Can you point to one single thing that addresses the needs and the struggles of the farmers and the agri-business and rural economy of Ontario in this

statement today? Is there one thing there, other than one line referring to them, that's going to help farmers?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I know the Minister of Agriculture would like to speak to this.

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs): I'm very happy to have the opportunity to remind the Leader of the

Opposition of this government's commitment to the agriculture community in the province of Ontario. We have provided $175 million to grains and oilseeds people; we have provided $138.5 million to

beef farmers in the time of the BSE crisis. Our government has made it very clear. We committed $20 million to assist farmers to establish their nutrient management plans for large farms. We've

always said we committed $20 million. The program was oversubscribed, and just last week, our government added $3.7 million to that commitment to support farmers in Ontario. That's our commitment

to agriculture.

The Speaker: New question.

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. Premier, today in Ontario, ordinary folks are paying more for

electricity, more for home heating costs and more for gasoline. They're paying more out of their own pockets for delisted health services like optometry, physiotherapy and chiropractic care.

They're facing out-of-control property tax assessments, and they're paying a lot more because of your unfair regressive health tax.

Can you provide hard-working Ontarians with your best estimate of how much more the average family will have to pay for electricity, gasoline, heating, fuel,

property tax and health services in the year ahead under the McGuinty government?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: To the Minister of Energy.

Hon. Donna H. Cansfield (Minister of Energy): There's no question that there will be an increase in the price of electricity and gasoline. We

are committed to replacing the coal-fired plants, and we are committed to the people of Ontario having to pay the full cost of electricity for this province.

However, having said that, we are in the process of replacing, rebuilding, maximizing and developing a culture of conservation in order to meet our targets.

Let me assure you -- we have just received another for 1,015 megawatts from the Calpine -- we are on our way to replacing coal-fired generation.

Mr. Hampton: Well, I don't think hard-working families will get any reassurance from that answer. The truth is that electricity rates will go

up by double digits again under the McGuinty government in the new year; the truth is that the heating bill will soar by at least 30% this winter; the truth is that an unfair property tax system

will drive property taxes through the roof again, and the truth is that this year the full amount of the McGuinty unfair regressive health tax will come off people's tax bills.

For ordinary citizens, this is the perfect economic storm.

Can the people of Ontario expect an answer from the Premier? Are you going to do anything to help people this winter, Premier, with all the new bills, all the

new costs, all the new taxes you've heaped upon them?

Hon. Mrs. Cansfield: I just find this amazing. This was the government that actually put up hydro rates by 40%. They actually cancelled all of

the conservation projects. They cancelled the Beck tunnel; they cancelled Conawapa. They do not like water; they do not like gas; they do not like coal. Now they don't even like water from

Manitoba. I find it difficult to answer a question when it doesn't have credibility behind it.

Mr. Hampton: I think families that are having a hard time paying the bills are going to have an increasingly hard time with the fact that this

is a Liberal government -- a McGuinty government -- that has absolutely no empathy for them.

Here is the reality: The McGuinty government's policies --

Interjections.

The Speaker: Stop the clock. We're having a difficult afternoon, aren't we? We need to be quiet while people who have the floor are either

asking a question or responding to one. The leader of the third party.

Mr. Hampton: Here is the reality: All kinds of people in this province are finding it more difficult. They are having a harder time under the

McGuinty government than they had even under the previous Conservative government. The cost of living is going through the roof. The rent isn't coming down, tuition fees are going up, electricity

rates are going up, gas prices are going up, heating fuel costs are going up and health taxes are going up. I say again, can the Premier tell us how he expects average Ontarians to continue to pay

more and more under the McGuinty government with no help, no assistance -- not even any empathy -- from the McGuinty government?

Hon. Mrs. Cansfield: Actually, that simply is not totally complete in its information. The fact of the matter is that there are a number of

programs supporting folks. One of them, for example, is Out of the Cold. Another is Share the Warmth in Brampton. We have an emergency fund for folks. As a matter of fact, in Hamilton, where we

have some significant challenges, Hamilton Utilities has a policy where the hydro is not cut off. They actually work with people in order to find and manage --

Interjection.

Hon. Mrs. Cansfield: In terms of trying to respond, you would find that electricity prices have been stable. In fact, we had a rebate, which

we are in the process of giving back, and we have put in place programs to mitigate costs. They're absolutely across this province, and we're developing that culture of conservation.

FIRST NATIONS REVENUE SHARING

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): I'm sure that someone who is having a hard time paying the rent and putting food on the table is

going to get a lot of satisfaction out of that response from the McGuinty government.

Premier, your aboriginal affairs minister claimed yesterday that your government wants to address First Nations poverty and challenges with revenue sharing. If

your government is suddenly committed to First Nations revenue sharing, can you explain why your government deserted Bill 97, the First Nations Resource Revenue Sharing Act, this summer?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): To the minister responsible for aboriginal affairs.

Hon. David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources, minister responsible for aboriginal affairs): Bill 97, the one you referred to that was put

forward by the member from Timmins-James Bay, was very narrow in its scope, in that it outlined that basically business, government and First Nations should discuss how this should happen. What

I've done with our First Nations is said that we should have government-to-government negotiations and discussions with our First Nations about how we can all share more greatly from the benefit of

our natural resources. We outlined that in the throne speech, and we will be commencing those discussions at the northern table starting next month.

Mr. Hampton: I attended a lot of the Bill 97 hearings, and First Nations were unanimous in saying this is what they wanted. In fact, they

brought forward all kinds of constructive suggestions. Passing Mr. Bisson's First Nations revenue-sharing act would have ensured that First Nations receive tax revenues and other revenues from

mining and forestry operations conducted on their lands, like municipalities do.

Instead, what you've done, and what we found yesterday, is you actually cut money out of infrastructure funds for sewer and water. At the very time when First

Nations are having great difficulty with tainted water, not only are you not helping, you're cutting.

So explain: How does it help First Nations when on the one hand you cut money that otherwise would have gone to them to help them deal with tainted water, and

then you come along and you desert the First Nations revenue-sharing act? How does any of that help First Nations?

Hon. Mr. Ramsay: The member this afternoon, I guess, is consistent in his ability to ignore the facts. He knows that the program he has

referred to involved indoor plumbing and not safe water or water treatment systems. He knows that and he should state that. That program had long expired.

I would say to the member that he knows that the bill he's referring to is very narrow in scope because it just involved revenue-sharing. As the member would

know as a northerner, there are tremendous benefits to be shared with the development of our natural resources, far more than revenue: entrepreneurial activities and opportunities and jobs. So we

want to have a complete discussion. I would never come into the Legislature and say, "I know what the answer is for First Nations," and plunk it down on the Clerk's table without a thorough

discussion with our First Nation neighbours.

Mr. Hampton: The McGuinty government says that $48 million under the NDP and $70 million under the Conservatives to hook residences up to the

sewer and water system was wasted. What nonsense. People wouldn't have been connected to the sewer and water system without those investments, and now you've cut them.

I want to quote Grand Chief Stan Beardy of the Nishnawbe Aski Nation, who says that if the First Nations revenue-sharing act isn't passed, "it's sending a very

negative message from Ontario to my people and our youth." He says, "It really shows the [government] is not prepared to work with First Nations. That's what is most disappointing."

That's the grand chief of NAN. He attended the hearings. He commented on the bill. He said the bill had to move forward.

My question to the Premier is this: Is this how you take First Nations seriously, Premier? You ignore the grand chief and you cut the very money that would

have helped some communities deal with tainted water?

Hon. Mr. Ramsay: I guess I would say to the member that the bill wasn't good enough, that we think we can do a more comprehensive job and look

at all the benefits that we can all share from the development of our natural resources. It's more than just straight money; it's jobs and entrepreneurial activities throughout northern Ontario,

and looking at new businesses, like we're going to extract or harvest the biomass from our forest floor. Instead of wasting it and putting it out into the environment, we can harness that for the

great energy potential that it has to save our forestry jobs up there. We're starting to have those discussions. That's part of the new approach that this government has developed with aboriginal

peoples, and I'm very proud of that approach.

PROVINCIAL DEFICIT

Mr. Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): My question is to the Premier. Premier, we now understand why you're hiding your economic statement behind the

skirts of the Gomery report. What has become very clear is that you reported a deficit last year of $1.6 billion. Today your economic statement says the deficit has gone up to $2.4 billion. Despite

an increase of some $13 billion that you've clawed away from Ontario taxpayers, you are increasing the deficit by 50% this year. Please explain how it's possible, with that revenue windfall, that

you're increasing the deficit by 50%.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): The Minister of Finance.

Hon. Dwight Duncan (Minister of Finance, Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): The budget last year projected a deficit of $2.6 billion.

The reserve was not needed. It came down to $1.6 billion. In the 2005 budget, the budget projected a deficit of $2.8 billion. We're now saying it's $2.4 billion. That's where it is. If we don't

need the reserve, it will be $1.4 billion next year. The numbers are clearly laid out in the statement and present a very good picture about the downward direction of the deficit of Ontario.

Mr. Hudak: The minister says the numbers are clearly laid out, but you keep changing the plan. You've had about five different financial plans

since taking office. There hasn't been a target that you haven't missed.

I cannot believe that despite a $13-billion increase in revenue -- despite the fact that you've reached deeper into the pockets of working families, despite

the fact that you're reaching into the pockets of seniors with higher hydro rates, despite the fact that you're reaching into the pockets of small businesses and slowing down our economy -- how is

it possible that in two weeks' time Dwight Duncan increased the deficit from $1.6 billion last year to $2.4 billion this year? How is that in any way possible?

Hon. Mr. Duncan: It's not possible, and it didn't happen.

Let me compare records. Let's talk about a government that said it had a balanced budget and left a deficit of $5.5 billion. Shame on you. You have no

credibility. Let's talk about a government that increased expenditures 21% in their last three years -- more than this government has ever done -- at the same time that revenues were declining.

That's your record; that's your legacy. You ought to be ashamed of it.

We are on track to balance the budget according to the plan laid out by my predecessor, Mr. Sorbara. That plan is a good plan; it's working. The deficit is

down; jobs are up; employment is up; unemployment is down. Everything that should be up is up, and everything that should be down is down -- the reverse of what happened under that government.

We're proud of our record. We stand behind it, and we're going to continue to fight for the people of Ontario.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Stop the clock. Order.

New question.

ENERGY RATES

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Premier. On Monday, Dofasco announced that its third quarter earnings fell 95%

from 2004. Why? Ontario's skyrocketing electricity rates. To quote a Dofasco spokesman, "We are asking the government to do everything possible and sustainable to make Ontario's electricity costs

competitive -- to keep Ontario a competitive place to do business."

Ontario has lost 42,000 manufacturing jobs under your watch. Can you provide Ontarians with your best estimate of how many more good manufacturing jobs will

disappear in Ontario because of the McGuinty government's failed electricity policies?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): The Minister of Energy.

Hon. Donna H. Cansfield (Minister of Energy): Let me also quote from that particular release, where it very clearly identifies that "there was

a significant decline in spot market pricing" and a stronger Canadian dollar that negatively impacted the broader market. Oh, and by the way, they had bought some premium slabs the year before that

they had to pay for this year. There is the question of high costs for iron ore and coal and, yes, there was a contribution on energy. If you're going to quote, I think you should do all of the

quotes.

Mr. Hampton: I want to tell the Premier that they didn't ask you to do anything about the cost of iron ore; they referred to the cost of

electricity.

But it's not just Dofasco. Today, municipal representatives, industry representatives and some worker representatives came from northern Ontario to tell the

McGuinty government once again that your electricity policies are putting virtually the whole of northern Ontario's forest sector at stake. Twelve paper and pulp mills are facing possible closure.

That's 25,000 jobs in the north and 13,000 jobs in the south.

They're very clear on what the problem is. You're forcing paper mills and pulp mills in Ontario to pay three times what paper and pulp mills pay in other

Canadian provinces. They have a simple request: Are you going to develop an electricity policy that is fair and rational for paper mills, pulp mills and sawmills in northern Ontario?

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): The question has been asked.

Hon. Mrs. Cansfield: I thank the member for his question. We've created 193,000 jobs in this province. We just signed a deal with Manitoba to

put in 200 megawatts of new supply, an additional 400 and, ultimately, 1,500 and possibly 3,000; looking at a discussion of an east-west grid; putting in place the necessary energy needs for

production in this province that's fair and reliable and stable. For the first time, over $3 billion has been invested in this sector by energy people. I think that needs to be accounted for. Even

Dofasco itself said -- guess what? -- "In our fourth quarter, earnings will be up."

FOREST INDUSTRY

Mr. Michael Gravelle (Thunder Bay-Superior North): My question is to the Minister of Natural Resources. Earlier today, you met with a

delegation of municipal and business leaders from northern Ontario to discuss the forestry crisis in our province. Like them, I represent a number of communities that have been hit hard by

permanent layoffs and indeed are facing the threat of full closure of their forestry operation. Our communities do fear for their future, and understandably, they have turned to us, the provincial

government, for help.

Minister, I recognize that you recently announced an incentive package to assist the forestry sector, and I want to thank you for working so hard to put

together such a package. But I also know that our mayors and reeves in northwestern Ontario intend to keep this issue on the front burner, and certainly I intend to do exactly the same thing. Can

you inform the members of this House what you were able to tell our municipal leaders at their meeting this morning?

Hon. David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources, minister responsible for aboriginal affairs): I was very pleased to be able to meet with the

leaders of northwestern Ontario today, and I'm very happy that the member was there in support of that. I congratulated them for their continuing campaign in support of the forestry industry that

is so important for all of this province, not just northern Ontario.

We certainly talked a little bit about the program, the $680 million that we've put toward the forestry industry, rebuilding that right across this province,

and how that contribution from this government is the largest of any sector of this economy. We're very proud of that.

I also told them, as they were getting ready to go to Ottawa, that that's where they really had to get their message next, because when I announced our phase

2, I said that phase 3 is in Ottawa. The Prime Minister made a commitment in June this year, at the very AGM for those municipal leaders in Kenora. They're going there to make sure that the Prime

Minister lives up to his word and makes sure the federal government comes forward and makes that investment in this industry.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Supplementary.

Mr. Bill Mauro (Thunder Bay-Atikokan): Minister, certainly I share your hope that the federal government is going to provide significant help

to this industry. However, dealing specifically with the province's incentive package, I'd like to know whether you can provide some details as to how these Ontario incentives are being received by

industry? Additionally, have you had any specific discussions with industry leaders, and can you let us know whether we can expect any positive announcements?

Hon. Mr. Ramsay: Over the last three weeks, I have met with all the leaders of all the major companies that invest in Ontario's forestry

sector. There is a very positive reaction to our particular plan. They are very excited about the $350-million loan guarantee program because, as members would know, this industry has been so hard

hit, access to capital is difficult. Coming forward with a loan guarantee program for up to 50% of the project cost is a very effective way of promoting the transformation that is required for this

industry. Over and above that, the $150 million that basically is for grants to support this is also very much welcome.

We've had that discussion, and again, I'm in continual contact with the federal government, asking them to come forward. Quite frankly, I'd be very happy if

they paralleled our particular plan, because our plan is very well accepted by the industry in this province.

WATER QUALITY

Ms. Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): My question is for the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of the Environment. The

municipality of West Grey and its mayor have been meeting with your staff for several years now regarding the erosion from the Saugeen River that is threatening its sewage lagoon in the village of

Neustadt. You've known about this problem and the threat it poses for downstream towns, especially Walkerton. Your response today was to impose an order and tell them to take a hike -- this despite

the fact that it was your ministry that took on the responsibility for the geotechnical study.

You are bailing out on this community and you are bailing out on Walkerton, which is threatened by this disaster. Your response to West Grey and Walkerton is

to blame someone else rather than to step up and protect this water source and these people. When is this government going to finally take responsibility for protecting drinking water in this

province?

Mr. John Wilkinson (Perth-Middlesex): The member should know -- and I thank her for the question -- that the sewage lagoon was downloaded to

the municipality by the previous government. Your colleague, who is the member, will tell you the sorry state of affairs that resulted from that transfer. What I can tell the House is that the

ministry recognizes, obviously, that the riverbank slope instability at the Neustadt sewage lagoon is a concern.

In response, I agree: The ministry funded a geotechnical assessment of the bank slope instability, which concluded that remedial work should be undertaken. On

October 19, the ministry issued a provincial officer's order to the municipality of West Grey, and I just want to explain to you what that says: "The order requires the municipality to submit a

plan detailing the steps to be taken to prevent the unstable riverbank from adversely affecting the lagoons at the Neustadt sewage works."

Ms. Scott: This is pretty much the response we expected: shifting the responsibility to the municipality here. This government is two years

old, and it's certainly acting like it's only two years old. There are water disasters breaking out all over the province. Your standard answer is to blame someone else. Your minister has been

informed of this problem by the municipality. The river is the problem. I'll say that again: The river is the problem. It is moving toward the lagoon. The lagoon hasn't budged. You're responsible

for surface water and groundwater protection. When are you going to accept responsibility and help the people of Walkerton prevent an impending disaster, or are you waiting for a phone call from

Andy Scott, like you did last week?

Mr. Wilkinson: The sewage lagoon is the municipality's, and I remind the member who gave it to the municipality. The second thing is that

there is a provincial officer's order. It is legally binding on the municipality, and we expect every individual, every municipality, every industry in this province to abide by legally binding

provincial orders.

Finally, I note that both my minister and the previous minister, meeting with West Grey, have urged them to apply for COMRIF funding -- a COMRIF program that

our government put in -- that would provide a third of the money from the feds, a third from the province and a third from the municipalities. Instead, I note that the municipality has not applied.

If they did, I'm sure it would be given serious consideration.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): New question.

Ms. Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): To the Premier: I want to follow up on that. That is my question as well, because it's very worrisome.

When drinking water in Ontario is threatened, Liberals have had the habit lately of blaming somebody else. First, your government failed to act on the water crisis in Kashechewan, despite the

Ontario Clean Water Agency knowing for two years that the First Nations water was contaminated. Now you've decided to blame the municipality of Neustadt for an eroding sewage lagoon that threatens

to dump sewage into the Saugeen River, the source of water for the town of Walkerton. Will your government learn from your past mistakes, rise above this jurisdictional squabbling and take action

today to protect the drinking water of Walkerton residents?

The Speaker: Premier?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): The parliamentary assistant to the Minister of the Environment.

Mr. Wilkinson: I want to start by assuring the member that we take safe drinking water very, very seriously on this side of the House. We

inherited the legacy of Walkerton from the previous government, and we are committed, which is why we're introducing our source water protection act before Christmas.

Now, in regard to this case, it is very important, and I would hope that the member and other members would urge all residents in Ontario, whether it is a

municipality, whether it's an industry or whether it's an individual, to respect the legally binding provincial officers' orders that are issued by the Ministry of the Environment. I would assume

the member opposite would agree that that is important.

Ms. Churley: I want to come back to the Premier. Premier, I think you and I would both agree that the fundamental, most important issue here

is protecting the drinking water for the citizens of Walkerton. Issuing a provincial order, which has been fought in court -- and it doesn't matter whether we agree with that or not; they're doing

it -- is not precautionary and does nothing to safeguard the drinking water of Walkerton today.

The government loves to talk about the importance of water in the abstract but continually falls down when it comes to protecting it on the ground. We just saw

that happen. What is it you don't understand about this? We're mentioning "Walkerton" and "water" in the same sentence here. It is a no-brainer. Will you step in today, given the fact that seven

people died in Walkerton as a result of tainted water? We cannot play around with this. Will you fix it today and worry about who pays for it later?

Mr. Wilkinson: Yesterday the member said that we should scrap the environmental assessment process in this province. Today she says we should

have provincial officers' orders not respected by the people in the province of Ontario.

I say to the member, there is a very simple solution: Like other municipalities, they should apply, in our opinion, to COMRIF. I can assure you that for a

project that is subject to a provincial officer's order, that would be given very, very serious consideration by the Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal. I'm assured of that. I know that the

Ministry of the Environment would support that application.

But we do not say in this House -- and I'm sure it was the same when the member was in government -- that somehow things like the environmental assessment

process or provincial officers' orders should be disrespected in this province. It is important that the Ministry of the Environment does what it must do.

There is an instability there. It is the responsibility of the municipality, as downloaded by the previous government. We have issued an order because this is

a serious matter. And the drinking water in Walkerton comes from wells, not from the river in question.

NORTHERN ECONOMY

Mr. David Orazietti (Sault Ste. Marie): My question is to the Minister of Northern Development and Mines. After more than a decade of neglect

by the former NDP and Conservative governments, we have introduced initiatives to ensure that the residents of northern Ontario will once again share in the economic prosperity of our province.

Minister, in addition to our $680-million forestry plan announced by our Minister of Natural Resources, could you please tell this House and my constituents what role the northern Ontario heritage

fund is playing in improving the economy of the north?

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): The Minister of Northern Development and Mines.

Hon. Rick Bartolucci (Minister of Northern Development and Mines): Thank you very much, Speaker. Before I answer the question, on behalf of

all the people who live in northern Ontario, we want to congratulate you and tell you how proud we are as you assume your new duties as Speaker.

Let me say that the member from Sault Ste. Marie is such an ardent advocate for his constituents and for the people of northern Ontario. He was one who was

instrumental in ensuring that the commitment that we made to refocus the northern Ontario heritage fund to a fund that targets job creation works.

Since October 2003, I am pleased to say that the northern Ontario heritage fund has invested $117.3 million, which has generated an additional $387 million,

and this has helped to create 2,721 jobs. Clearly it's working.

Mr. Orazietti: I know that in my community the new programs to refocus the northern Ontario heritage fund are clearly working. Eleven

community partners in Sault Ste. Marie received funding through the NOHFC youth intern and co-op program, providing 19 young people with valuable internships at places such as the Sault innovation

centre, the economic development corporation and the Group Health Centre.

Under the Conservatives, the number of youth aged 15 to 29 in the north decreased by 13%, while the rest of Ontario experienced an increase of 2% in the same

age group. Minister, how is this new program continuing to work to keep our youth in northern Ontario?

Hon. Mr. Bartolucci: Another part of the northern prosperity plan has been the creation of northern development councils, councils that were

cancelled and eliminated by the New Democratic Party when they were in government. We charged them with coming up with strategies that would decrease the youth out-migration. You know what? It is

working. The youth internship and co-op program has been very successful. Since its inception in January 2005, at the start of the new mandate, we've created 135 direct jobs throughout northern

Ontario through this program, an investment of $2.2 million, and the good news is only beginning. We will be continuing to make good-news announcements with regard to youth internship and co-op,

unlike the New Democratic Party, which created 1,000 unemployed people every week of their mandate in 1995.

WATER QUALITY

Mr. Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound): My question is to the Minister of Natural Resources. Let's get things straight on Neustadt. The

Ministry of the Environment has sent the wrong person the order. The order should have gone to the Ministry of Natural Resources. Who owns the river? Who, when you want to do something in that

river, must you go to? The Ministry of Natural Resources. It is the river that's moving; the lagoons aren't moving. Minister, will you commit today to repair the bank on the Saugeen River before we

have a disaster? That river goes downstream in Walkerton, Hanover, all kinds of municipalities, right through to Southampton. There are lots of fish in that river. Will you fix that river today?

Will you commit to doing that?

Hon. David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources, minister responsible for aboriginal affairs): First of all, I'm quite flattered by the

confidence that the member has in me and my ability to fix this problem. I have to say to the member that I wasn't aware of this problem. It's come to light to me in the House today. I will look

into it and see if there's any assistance the Ministry of Natural Resources can provide in this.

Mr. Murdoch: We've heard this rhetoric before. You should have known about this. I don't know where this minister has been, because we have

gone to your ministry about this.

Minister, the last time I asked you a question in this House, I didn't get the straight goods, so I'm hoping I'm getting the straight goods today. You said

you've committed to looking into this, so you had better do something before the ministry wakes up and sends you the order, because they've sent it to the wrong people. It is not up to the people

of Neustadt to fix your river. Your river is what's coming toward the lagoons, and again, I hope you can say today that you will fix this.

Yes, I have confidence. You've got the money. You are the expert on the rivers. It is your job as the Ministry of Natural Resources to look after rivers. If

you can tell me that's different, then you can tell me that today. But Minister, I need you and your ministry to go in there tomorrow and start to look at that river and fix it up before a disaster

happens and those lagoons are in your river, killing your fish and hurting people downstream.

Hon. Mr. Ramsay: I will commit to the member that I will be in contact with our district office this afternoon and get a full report about

what is happening with the river. As you know, we have erosion problems, I believe in the clay soils in that area. We do get slumping situations in rivers such as that. I will get a complete report

and get back to the member.

IMMIGRANTS

Mr. Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): My question is to the Minister of Citizenship. The federal government has announced an increase in

immigrants to Canada. Many will be coming to Ontario. But I tell you this: New Canadians and many immigrant advocates are worried. Funding for newcomer services has been flatlined for many years,

while the number of newcomers who have settled in Ontario has increased. Ontario is the only province with no immigration agreement. Why aren't you able to wrangle an immigration agreement from

your federal cousins?

Hon. Mike Colle (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration): I do appreciate the question from the member for Trinity-Spadina, and I think it's

a very serious question for Ontario. The Premier, for over a year, has put fair funding for newcomers to Ontario front and centre in his $23-billon gap campaign. He has said that it is unfair that

The Prime Minister listened. In May of this year we got a commitment to have fair funding. That fair funding is coming to Ontario very soon, and we are

anxiously waiting for that to happen. We're going to get some good news for newcomers to Ontario so they can reach their potential.

Mr. Marchese: Minister, you have been announcing that we're weeks away from an agreement for nearly two years. Children have learned to walk

and talk while we've waited for a few weeks to pass. You used to attack the Tories for not getting an agreement. Now you have a federal Liberal government, you have a Liberal provincial government

and you still can't get this deal two years later. You have no plan to help newly arrived immigrants: skilled professionals who come to this province and wind up in menial work, unable to practise

their professions. When will you stop saying, "The money is coming soon," and actually produce it?

Hon. Mr. Colle: I haven't been here for two years; I've just been minister for three months. We are very committed and very close to getting

that fair funding, and we'll be the first government to have this agreement for adequate funding for the bridge training and language training we do. That's why, for the first time in the history

of this province, we've created a stand-alone, robust ministry that is not just going to talk about immigration and fairness, it's going to do something about it -- a lot more than you ever did and

those people ever did.

TRAILS

Ms. Monique M. Smith (Nipissing): My question is for the Minister of Health Promotion. As you know, I represent a northern riding, and many of

my constituents rely on trails for their businesses and for recreation. There are over 64,000 kilometres of trails in this province, which serve a broad range of users, from hikers to cyclists,

cross-country skiers, ATVers and snowmobilers.

On September 30 this year, I had the privilege of attending the grand opening of the Voyageur Multi Use Trail System with the Minister of Intergovernmental

Affairs in Mattawa. This trail system serves over 4,000 ATV users a year. As well, in March, I was also delighted to join with a great many stakeholders in my community to meet with the member for

Mississauga South as he did his consultation on trails across the province.

Two weeks ago, you launched the Ontario trails strategy, which begins to address the many issues of this sector. Why were trails not governed by a strategy in

the past, and how does the trails strategy fit into your new Ministry of Health Promotion?

Hon. Jim Watson (Minister of Health Promotion): I want to thank the honourable member for Nipissing for the question. The trails strategy was

something I was very pleased and proud to release a few weeks ago, but I do have to give credit to my predecessor, the Honourable Jim Bradley, who worked very hard on this strategy.

The trails strategy is an important part of our Active 2010 campaign to get Ontarians physically fit. Sadly, less than 50% of adults in this province are

physically fit. The trails strategy also contributes to the tourism economy, particularly of the north -- almost $2 billion to the provincial economy.

We went through an extensive consultation process, led by Mr. Tim Peterson, who did a wonderful job. Mr. Peterson travelled, conducting nine workshops and 14

regional consultations.

In conclusion, I just want to leave --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. I'm sure there will be a supplementary.

Ms. Smith: Minister, I know that this strategy was eagerly awaited by the sector, and I'm wondering if you can elaborate on what the strategy

actually proposes to do.

Interjection.

Ms. Smith: I'm sure the member for Niagara Centre would like to know as well.

As you noted, the trail sector is very important to the northern economy, as people stay in our hotels for the weekends, they stop in our towns and shop, have

lunch and buy supplies at our local shops. Minister, how does our government intend to implement the Ontario trail strategy?

Hon. Mr. Watson: I was in the midst of thanking Tim Peterson for the consultations he did.

I also want to make the point that this is not a study that's simply going to collect dust. The McGuinty government has put $3.5 million into this strategy so

that we can do a couple of things. First of all, a proper and thorough mapping of all the trails is important for tourism development in the north and throughout the province; also, a centralized

Web site is being developed so tourists and Ontario residents alike can engage in this wonderful physical activity.

Finally, a quote from the chair of the board of directors of Go For Green, Mr. Bjorn Nielsen, who says, "The new Ontario trails strategy, by promoting urban

routes and active transportation, in addition to more traditional wilderness trails, can make a significant contribution, improving the health of Ontarians by providing the essential walking and

biking infrastructure for active, healthy living in the province."

FOREST INDUSTRY

Mr. Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): I have a question for the Minister of Natural Resources. As you know, the forestry industry supports

many communities. Today, a delegation of northern mayors visited Queen's Park to attempt to get on your radar. I'd like to commend them for their many efforts to get your government to take action.

These mayors are fighting for the very existence of their communities.

Minister, will you agree to implement recommendation number 3 from your Council on Forest Sector Competitiveness report that the province assume 100% of the

cost of primary roads and 50% of the cost of secondary roads? Will you do that for the sake of northern communities that depend on the forest industry?

Hon. David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources, minister responsible for aboriginal affairs): First of all, as a northerner, I share your

concern about the forestry industry in northern Ontario and, of course, across this whole province. It is facing an incredible challenge right now, and the Premier talked about that earlier in

question period.

As the member knows, your government and the government previous to you downloaded the cost of constructing and maintaining forest access roads. We have

started to reverse that trend and are now contributing $28 million a year toward the maintenance of our primary access roads in our forests in northern Ontario. I think this is important because,

as we know, it's the high cost of delivering the wood to the mills that is really hurting the industry right now, and this is a great contribution to that. I would say to the member also that, in

response to the leader's question earlier, I have committed to the industry that I will not raise royalties --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Miller: To the minister: So far, you haven't made significant progress on the made-in-Ontario costs in the forest industry. Delivered wood

costs have skyrocketed in the last three years, high energy costs, excessive red tape. CIBC Wood Gundy says that your announcements won't have a meaningful impact on the viability of the industry.

Your road funding doesn't even cover fuel cost increases. One company I spoke to spends $3 million on 1,000 kilometres of primary road, so I don't think the $28 million announced in your package to

cover maintenance on primary roads is going to go very far. The delegation we met with today was talking about $60 million, or trying to address $5 per cubic metre US of the delivered wood

costs.

Minister, why won't you fund the roads based on the recommendations of the expert council that you appointed? Why won't you go and do that, sir?

Hon. Mr. Ramsay: While the member is zeroing in on one particular aspect of the report and our response, which is $28 million a year over the

next five years, I would remind him that we're talking about a $680-million program to this industry, the largest response this government's ever made to any part of this economy in this province,

and we're very proud of that.

I would say again to the member, and put it on the record for sure, that I have committed to the industry not only that we would not raise stumpage fees on

wood coming into the mills until we get rid of that international tariff from the United States -- the softwood lumber dispute -- not only to not imposing any new regulations, but we're going to

make sure that MNR -- and I've asked our officials to start reducing the red tape in our industry from our ministry so that we can show further savings for delivered wood cost.

SOUTH ASIAN COMMUNITY

Ms. Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): My question is to the Premier. Today is Diwali, the largest and most joyous holiday on the Hindu calendar.

In a statement I made to the Legislature on October 18, I spoke about the Hindu temple in Hamilton and how it was burned to the ground as a result of a racist attack after 9/11. It's particularly

special for the Hindu community to be able to celebrate Diwali in their new temple, but it's too bad they're not getting a response on their request to get some support from your government around

the rebuilding of this community centre and temple. What can I tell them about what you are prepared to do, Mr. Premier?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): To the Attorney General.

Hon. Michael Bryant (Attorney General): I thank the member for raising this matter in the House. It was just a horrific thing and such an

un-Canadian moment when that happened. What was truly remarkable about it -- and I know because I have been to Hamilton and met with a number of people from all faiths who got together immediately

to try and provide assistance to the community and worked together to see the wonderful story that we hear today whereby in fact we have the temple rebuilt.

We need to continue to be vigilant on hate crimes. That's why I've asked members of the member's community, including people who were very active in showing

leadership with respect to this particular matter, to join the Hate Crimes Community Working Group to ensure that we not only prevent hate crimes but assist all victims of hate crimes on an ongoing

basis.

Ms. Horwath: Hate crimes are certainly an issue, but the issue I'm getting at is that the government had talked about possibly helping out

this community. The silver lining in this tragedy is that our local community in the city of Hamilton has pulled together and much has been raised. The problem is, they're still significantly short

and they're wanting to know -- a simple question, yes or no -- is the McGuinty Liberal government prepared to help this community in the rebuilding of their community centre and temple?

Hon. Mr. Bryant: I thank the member for her question. Again, we'll continue to work with leaders of that community, to play the appropriate

role that the provincial government ought to play, not only the Ministry of the Attorney General but all ministries involved, so that we can make this a moment in our history that we can look back

on and say that we all pulled together to assist that community during a very difficult time.

PETITIONS

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Jerry J. Ouellette (Oshawa): A petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are deprived

of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent upon the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I affix my name in full support.

FALLSVIEW CASINO

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): I have a petition on behalf of my riding of Niagara Falls signed by many of the residents from my community,

including Mary-Anne Kennedy, Jim Hess and June Foxwell. The petition reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Falls Management Group made numerous commitments to the city of Niagara Falls when it was awarded the Fallsview Casino contract in 1998" by the

previous government.

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly as follows:

"Niagara Falls residents are still waiting for the on-site amenities and the off-site attractors. We believe that the government of Ontario should ensure that

all promises made at the time of the awarding of the contract be fulfilled."

I'm pleased to submit this on behalf of my residents.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): Petitions? The member for Durham.

ONTARIO FARMERS

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): Thank you for recognizing me. The member from Burlington will probably be next.

Anyway, from the riding of Durham to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas thousands of Ontario farmers and rural Ontarians have been forced to take their concerns directly to Queen's Park due to a lack of response from the

Dalton McGuinty government; and

"Whereas the Rural Revolution believes that rural Ontario is in crisis due to lost property rights and a crushing regulatory burden," and they were

demonstrating this spring at Queen's Park;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, ask the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to consider the issue of municipal jurisdiction brought forward by the Rural

Revolution's resolutions to respect property and prosperity" rights:

"Resolution number 5: Municipal governments shall be constituted to take control and jurisdiction over matters that pertain to their constituents.

"Resolution number 9: All municipalities forced or coerced into amalgamation shall hold a binding referendum on de-amalgamation at the next general

election."

I am very pleased to present this on behalf of my constituents in the riding of Durham.

MANDATORY RETIREMENT

Mr. Bob Delaney (Mississauga West): I have a petition here to the Ontario Legislative Assembly about mandatory retirement. It reads as

follows:

"Whereas existing legislation in Ontario enforcing mandatory retirement discriminates against healthy and able Ontario men and women on the basis that they are

older than age 65; and

"Whereas the provinces of Alberta, Manitoba, Prince Edward Island, Quebec, Yukon and the Northwest Territories have ended mandatory retirement in various

forms; and

"Whereas ending mandatory retirement will enable many principal family income earners, especially among families of new Canadians and those headed by single

mothers, to maintain their careers, earn incomes, support their families and contribute to society; and

"Whereas Ontario faces a labour shortage in the coming years as skilled knowledge workers and tradespeople approach retirement age, and Ontario companies do

not wish to lose their investment in the skills and experience of their most senior people;

"Be it therefore resolved that the government of Ontario should abolish mandatory retirement in the province of Ontario through the swift passage of Bill 211,

An Act to amend the Human Rights Code to end mandatory retirement."

I read this petition on behalf of many in Mississauga West. I've affixed my signature, and I'm going to ask page Jasmine to carry it for me.

CANCER TREATMENT

Mr. Cameron Jackson (Burlington): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas we are asking for funding for Velcade to be available in Ontario. Ontario is the only province in Canada not currently making funding available for

this drug, even though approximately 40% of people diagnosed with multiple myeloma" cancer "in Canada are from Ontario;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To push the approval of Velcade through the review process and make funding available for patients in Ontario immediately, as it is in every other province of

Canada."

I present this on behalf of my constituent George Petrunas, who has been struggling with this disease for the last 10 years. It has my signature of support,

and I'd like to give it to my dear friend Charlie, who will present it to you.

QUEENSWAY CARLETON HOSPITAL

Mr. John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): I have another petition on the Queensway Carleton Hospital and it reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Queensway Carleton Hospital is one of the most efficient hospitals in the country;

"Whereas the Queensway Carleton Hospital's priority should be providing excellent patient care, not money for Paul Martin's Liberal government;

"Whereas the number of senior citizens served by the Queensway Carleton Hospital is growing rapidly in the west end of Ottawa and Nepean;

"Whereas the federal Liberal government led by Paul Martin has a surplus potentially as high as $10 billion;

"Whereas all provincial political parties in Ontario have acknowledged the significant fiscal imbalance;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"The Ontario Legislature call upon the federal Liberal government to immediately cancel its plans to dramatically increase the rent for the land now being used

by the Queensway Carleton Hospital, and that the hospital be charged only $1 rent per year."

I'm pleased to present another petition signed by me and a lot of constituents from Stittsville and Nepean, and to give it to Adam Rupani, a page from

Nepean.

MACULAR DEGENERATION

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): I'm pleased to submit this petition on behalf of my riding of Niagara Falls, signed by a number of people,

John Kay and Pat Steeves. The petition reads as follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the government of Ontario's health insurance plan covers the treatments for one form of macular degeneration (wet) and there are other forms of

macular degeneration (dry) that are not covered.

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"There are thousands of Ontarians who suffer from macular degeneration resulting in loss of sight if treatment is not pursued. Treatment cost for this disease

is astronomical for most constituents and adds a financial burden to their lives. Their only alternative is loss of sight. We believe the government of Ontario should consider covering treatment

for all forms of macular degeneration through the Ontario health insurance plan."

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are deprived

of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent upon the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I have also signed this.

PROSTATE CANCER

Mr. Bob Delaney (Mississauga West): I'm pleased to join with my seatmate the member for Niagara Falls in this petition to the Ontario

Legislative Assembly. It reads as follows:

"Whereas the government of Ontario's health insurance plan does not cover the cost of PSA (prostate specific antigen) test as an early method of detection for

prostate cancer in men;

"Whereas mammogram tests for women are fully covered by the Ontario health insurance plan for early detection of breast cancer and PSA test for men is only

covered once the physician suspects prostate cancer,

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"We believe PSA testing should be covered as an insured service by the Ontario health insurance plan. Prostate cancer is the most commonly diagnosed cancer in

Canadian men. At least one in every eight Canadian men is expected to develop the disease in their lifetime. Some five million Canadian men are currently at risk in their prostate-cancer-risk

years, which are between the ages of 45 and 70. For many seniors and low-income earners, the cost of the test would buy up to a week's worth of groceries for some individuals."

This is a good petition. I'm pleased to sign it, and I'm also pleased to give it to page Charlie, who is my page for Mississauga West.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr. Gerry Martiniuk (Cambridge): I have a petition signed by good citizens of Cambridge and the region of Waterloo, addressed to the

Legislative Assembly of Ontario, headed "Save Our Hospital":

"Whereas the $80-million expansion of Cambridge Memorial Hospital was approved in 2002 pursuant to the mandate of the Health Services Restructuring Commission;

and

"Whereas the plans for the project have been in the works for the past two years; and

"Whereas the residents of Cambridge and North Dumfries, the city of Cambridge and the region of Waterloo have contributed their share of the project; and

"Whereas the decision to cancel the expansion will adversely affect and diminish health care in Waterloo region;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"Resolved that the McGuinty government reverse its decision to cancel the Cambridge Memorial Hospital expansion and hospital upgrades."

I will sign my name on that petition.

PROSTATE CANCER

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): I am pleased to introduce this petition on behalf of my constituents for Niagara Falls. The petition reads as

follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the government of Ontario's health insurance plan does not cover the cost of PSA (prostate specific antigen) test as an early method of detection for

prostate cancer in men;

"Whereas mammogram tests for women are fully covered by the Ontario insurance plan for early detection of breast cancer and PSA test for men is only covered

once the physician suspects prostate cancer,

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"We support Bill 201. We believe PSA testing should be covered as an insured service by the Ontario health insurance program. Prostate cancer is the most

commonly diagnosed cancer in Canadian men. At least one in every eight Canadian men is expected to develop the disease in their lifetime. Some five million Canadian men are currently at risk in

their prostate-cancer-risk years, which are between the ages of 45 and 70. For many seniors and low-income earners, the cost of the test would buy up to a week's worth of groceries for some

individuals."

I'm pleased to submit this petition.

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): Again, I'm pleased to present a petition.

"Whereas many volunteer fire departments in Ontario are strengthened by the service of double-hatter firefighters" -- and I know, Mr. Speaker, this will be

important to you -- "who work as professional, full-time firefighters and also serve as volunteer firefighters on their free time and in their home communities; and

"Whereas the Ontario Professional Fire Fighters Association has declared their intent to `phase out' these double-hatter firefighters; and

"Whereas double-hatter firefighters are being threatened by the union leadership and forced to resign as volunteer firefighters or face losing their full-time

jobs, and this is weakening volunteer fire departments in Ontario;" -- indeed in my riding -- "and

"Whereas Waterloo-Wellington MPP Ted Arnott" -- the Deputy Chair here -- "has introduced Bill 52, the Volunteer Firefighters Employment Protection Act, that

would uphold the right to volunteer and solve this problem concerning public safety in Ontario;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the provincial government express public support for MPP Ted Arnott's Bill 52 and willingness to pass it into law or introduce similar legislation that

protects the right of firefighters to volunteer in their home communities on their own free time."

I support this on behalf of MPP Ted Arnott and present it to Jeffrey, who will bring it to the table. Thank you very much, Jeffrey.

MACULAR DEGENERATION

Mr. Bob Delaney (Mississauga West): I'm pleased to again support my seatmate the member from Niagara Falls in this petition to the Legislative

Assembly of Ontario. It reads as follows:

"Whereas the government of Ontario's health insurance plan covers treatments for one form of macular degeneration (wet) there are other forms of macular

degeneration (dry) that are not covered.

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"There are thousands of Ontarians who suffer from macular degeneration resulting in loss of sight if treatment is not pursued. Treatment cost for this disease

is astronomical for most constituents and adds a financial burden to their lives. Their only alternative is loss of sight. We believe the government of Ontario should cover treatment for all forms

of macular degeneration through the Ontario health insurance program."

I'm pleased to add my signature in support of this petition and to ask page Anika to carry it for me. Thank you for the time.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

CHILD AND FAMILY SERVICES

STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE LES SERVICES

À L'ENFANCE ET À LA FAMILLE

Mrs. Chambers moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 210,

An Act to amend the Child and Family Services Act and make complementary amendments to other Acts / Projet de loi 210, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les

services à l'enfance et à la famille et apportant des modifications complémentaires à d'autres lois.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): I return to the Minister of Children and Youth Services.

Hon. Mary Anne V. Chambers (Minister of Children and Youth Services): I would like to start by acknowledging the presence of supporters of the

proposed bill, Bill 210: Jeanette Lewis, executive director of the Ontario Association of Children's Aid Societies; Pat Fenton, executive director of the Adoption Council of Ontario; Kenn Richard,

executive director of Native Child and Family Services of Toronto. Thank you for being here today.

The Ministry of Children and Youth Services was created just over two years ago, reflecting the importance our government places on the needs of children and

youth in this province. Our government has a vision for Ontario's children and youth. It is one of hope, health and opportunity. We are committed to helping ensure that the lives of our children

and youth can be as productive and fulfilling as possible. As one of our highest priorities, we have been working to strengthen our child protection system so that it will work better for children

and youth.

While we work to achieve this goal year-round, it is particularly timely to be standing before you today, since we marked Child Abuse Awareness Month last

month, October, and today marks the beginning of National Adoption Month. These designated months are an opportunity to draw the public's attention to the importance of protecting and helping our

most vulnerable children. These children face significant challenges, and we must all recognize that we have a collective responsibility to protect them from harm and to support them as they work

to overcome their challenges.

On June 6 this year, my colleague the former Minister of Children and Youth Services introduced legislation that, if passed, will help more children who are

crown wards in the care of our children's aid societies find permanent, supportive homes by making adoption more flexible for children and less difficult for appropriate prospective parents. We're

also providing more options so that more children will have the opportunity to grow up in a permanent family setting. As well, we are changing the way children's aid societies work by not only

making them more stable and sustainable, but also making them more accountable to the children and families they serve, to our community partners and to government.

Since 1994, there has been a 185% increase in the number of investigations conducted by children's aid societies into reports of child abuse and neglect. As

troubling as that number sounds on the surface, it signifies --

Mr. John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: This is a very important bill. I notice there's not one cabinet

minister joining the minister. I think we've lost quorum in the House.

The Acting Speaker: It's not appropriate to make reference to the absence of any one member, which you didn't do.

Is there a quorum in the House?

The Deputy Clerk (Ms. Deborah Deller): A quorum is present, Speaker.

The Acting Speaker: I recognize the Minister of Children and Youth Services.

Hon. Mrs. Chambers: I want to thank the member across the floor for his support.

As troubling as that number sounds on the surface, it signifies a positive shift in our attitudes ab