April 25, 1995 Alberta Hansard 1285 Legislative Assembly of Alberta Title: Tuesday, April 25, 1995 1:30 p.m. Date: 95/04/25 [The Speaker in the Chair] head: Prayers THE SPEAKER: Let us pray. O Lord, we give thanks for the bounty of our province: our land, our resources, and our people. We pledge ourselves to act as good stewards on behalf of all Albertans. Amen. head: Presenting Petitions THE SPEAKER: The hon. Opposition House Leader. MR. BRUSEKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to present a petition that comes from the city of Calgary.

This is from Calgary Catholic parents or parents who send their children to the Catholic education system. They're concerned about the seizure of separate school taxes and the control of expenditure, they're concerned about the designation of local school taxes to support the school system of their choice, and they're also concerned about open boundaries. There are a total of 462 signatures on this petition, bringing the total number of signatures that I've tabled in this House on this particular issue to 2,387. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Sherwood Park. MR. COLLINGWOOD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I beg leave this afternoon to introduce a petition signed by 772 Albertans, many of whom attended the Snow Goose Festival last weekend in Tofield. This petition urges the government "to hold public hearings on the Laidlaw Hazardous Waste pr oposal for Ryley, Alberta." THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary-Cross. MRS. FRITZ: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm tabling a petition, presented to me by Mr.

Peter Hoff, that is signed by 8,641 Calgarians who ask that this Assembly support a volunteer-based, not-for-profit charitable gaming system in Alberta to ensure that sufficient revenues can be earned by communities and charities. Also, I'm going to be passing this petition along to the Lottery Review Committee for consideration in their deliberations. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Glenora. MR. SAPERS: Y es, Mr. Speaker. Today I have two petitions to table with your permission. The first is signed by residents of Calgary protesting the closure of the Holy Cross hospital. The second, Mr.

Speaker, is signed by approximately 200 residents of the Edmonton area asking that the hospital beds and programs closed and canceled by the regional health authority be reconsidered. head: Reading and Receiving Petitions THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Lethbridge-East. DR. NICOL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd request that the petition I submitted on April 1 1 concerning the f unding of 400 hours of ECS be now read and received.

CLERK: We the undersigned Residents of Alberta petition the Legislative Assembly to urge the Government of Alberta to ensure all Alberta school boards provide the opportunity for each eligible child to receive a minimum of 400 hours of Early Childhood Services instruction per year.

We also request the Assembly to urge the Government of Alberta to allow Alberta School Boards to use money from the Alberta School Foundation Fund to fund 400 hours or more of Early Childhood Services, as determined by the local community, so that there are no ECS user fees for 400 hour programs and so that all Alberta children have an equal opportunity or "level playing field" to succeed and compete in life by having equal access to basic educational resources. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. MR. HENRY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I would ask that the petition I tabled in this Legislature on April 10 regarding full funding for kindergarten now be read and received. CLERK: We the undersigned Residents of Alberta petition the Legislative Assembly to urge the Government of Alberta to ensure all Alberta school boards provide the opportunity for each eligible child to receive a minimum of 400 hours of Early Childhood Services instruction per year.

We also request the Assembly to urge the Government of Alberta to allow Alberta School Boards to use money from the Alberta School Foundation Fund to fund 400 hours or more of Early Childhood Services, as determined by the local community, so that there are no ECS user fees for 400 hour programs and so that all Alberta children have an equal opportunity or "level playing field" to succeed and compete in life by having equal access to basic educational resources. head: Notices of Motions MRS. BLACK: Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 34(2)(

a) I give notice that tomorrow I will move that written questions stand and retain their places on the Order Paper with the exception of Question 206. As well, I'll move that motions for returns appearing on the Order Paper stand and retain their places with the exception of motions 202, 224, 225, and 226. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. MR. HENRY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I rise to give notice that after questi on period I will seek unanimous consent under Standing Order 40 to present the following motion: "Be it resolved that this Assembly recognize the launch of the national literacy campaign." Thank you. head: Tabling Returns and Reports MRS. McCLELLAN: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table today the annual reports of the Mental Health Patient Advocate for the year ended December 31, 1994, and the College of Physical Therapists of Alberta for the year ended February 28, 1995.

1286 Alberta Hansard April 25, 1995 THE SPEAKER: The hon. Opposition House Leader. MR. BRUSEKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two tablings. First of all, four copies each of three letters to the Minister of Education from parents in Calgary, Catholic school system supporters expressing concern a bout three particular issues. Also, I'd like to table four copies of a faxed petition which I know can't be tabled under the petition section. This is also from Calgary Catholic parents expressing concern about the same three issues I raised earlier.

There are 1 13 signatures in this group, and that brings the total to 2,500 signatures on this particular petition, Mr. Speaker. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Glenora. MR. SAPERS: Thanks, Mr. Speaker. Today I'd like to table four copies of a letter from Mr. George Jordan of Red Deer, who is so dissatisfied with the nonelection of regional health authorities that he's calling for a nonconfidence motion in the government. head: Introduction of Guests THE SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. MR. KLEIN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I have two introductions to make today.

The first introduction is of a gentleman who was recently elected in the Calgary-McCall by- election. Mr. Shiraz Shariff is sitting in your gallery. He is, as I pointed out, the MLA elect for Calgary-McCall, and I would ask that he rise and receive the warm and sincere welcome of this Legislature. [applause] Mr. Speaker . . . MR. DINNING: We got another one elected? There's another one? MR. KLEIN: Well, there could be some more. It gives me a great deal of pleasure, Mr.

Speaker, to introduce to you and through you to Members of the Legislative Assembly 86 bright students, grades 10, 1 1, and 12, from Central Memorial high school in the city of Calgary in my constituency. They are accompanied by their teachers Mr. Jean Fevry, Miss Elaine Schmidt, and Mr. Ron Radomsky. I would ask that they rise and receive the warm welcome of this Legislative Assembly. MR. DA Y: Mr. Speaker, seated in the members' gallery is Mr. Henry Tomlinson, along with some other individuals. Mr.

Tomlinson will be leading a delegation from the Federation of Alberta Gas Co-ops in a meeting with government tonight, and they are here to view the proceedings today. I would ask them to rise and receive the warm welcome of the Assembly. 1:40 THE SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Advanced Education and Career Development. MR. ADY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm perhaps a little belated in that some of the introductions have already taken place, but it's my pleasure to introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly a number of hardworking individuals from the Gas Utility Operators Provisional Committee.

They're here to help us make history today: the first ever designation of an occupation under the Apprenticeship and Industry Training Act, the designation of a gas utility operator. I'd like to ask each person to rise as I call their name and remain standing until I complete the introduction. First of all, Mr. Bruce Benesch, serviceman for Evergreen Gas Co-op Ltd., and his wife, Linda; Mr. Bill Emmerzeal, manager of operations for Centra Gas Inc., and his wife, Elizabeth; Mr. Bill Gray, director of the Federation of Alberta Gas Co-ops Limited; Mr. Don MacMillan, manager of Footh ills Natural Gas Co-op Ltd.; Mr.

John Malysh, serviceman for county of Smoky Lake No. 13; Mr. Ray Pratch, manager of Elk Point Gas company, and his wife, Hendrina; and Mr. Gordon Sweitzer, manager of Y ellowhead Gas Co-op Ltd., and his wife, Maxine. Also, I'd like to recognize Mr. Henry Tomlinson, chairman of the Federation of Alberta Gas Co-ops, and Mr. Ralph McCall, who represents Canadian Utilities. Mr. David Panabaker of Medicine Hat gas and Al Kehler, district supervisor for Centra Gas Inc., are also committee members but were unable to be here today.

I'm also pleased to introduce the chairman of the Apprenticeship and Industry Training Board, Mr. Jake Thygesen, who's worked very hard to bring this to pass, and last but not least Ms Shirley Dul, who has worked with him as executive director of our apprentice- ship and industry training branch. I ask all members to give these ladies and gentlemen the warm traditional welcome of the Assembly. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. MRS. HEWES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'm privileged today to introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly 13 students from Austin O'Brien high school in Edmonton-Gold Bar. They're accompanied by their teacher Mr. Sean Fleming. They're seated in the public gallery, and I'd ask them to rise and receive the welcome of the Assembly. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Lacombe-Stettler. MRS. GORDON: Thank you. Mr.

Speaker, it's my pleasure to introduce to you and through you to Members of the Legislative Assembly four hardworking, diligent individuals who are currently serving on the Lottery Review Committee: Ray Clark, alderman, city of Calgary, an appointee of the Alberta Urban Municipalities Association; Bruce Willerton, c ouncillor, municipal district of Wainwright, an appointee of the Alberta Association of Municipal Districts and Counties; Thomas Lukaszuk, public member from Edmonton; and Paulette Patterson, public member from Grande Prairie. They're seated in the public gallery.

I would ask them to rise and receive the warm welcome of the Assembly. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Clover Bar-Fort Saskatchewan. MRS. ABDURAHMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's with a great deal of pride and pleasure that I introduce to you and to the members of the Assembly 20 fine young Albertans from grade 6 at Ministik school, which is in the rural part of Strathcona county, a beautiful part. They're accompanied by two teachers, Mr. Arnold Duncan and Mrs. Louise Dalziel. Also, we are very fortunate to have three parents, volunteers – and a special thanks as it's volunteer week – Mrs. Leona Kievit, Mrs.

Beth Appleyard, and Mrs. Laura Gericke. I'd ask you please to give them a warm welcome. It's the tradition of this House. Thank you.

April 25, 1995 Alberta Hansard 1287 THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Glengarry. MR. DECORE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to introduce two young women, Lori and Pam Sitko, who've spent the day with me and who I think are incredible in the sense that one wants to be a veterinarian – I hope she doesn't take after some people I know – and the other wishes to emulate her father, who is a lawyer in my constituency. Both of these students attend Ardros- san school and live in my colleague's constituency. Would they stand and be introduced and welcomed by the Assembly. THE SPEAKER: The hon.

Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie. MS CARLSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's with pleasure today that I introduce to you and through you to Members of the Legislative Assembly Lora Treder. She's here shadowing me today and will be spending a full day with us here in the Legisla- ture. I ask that she now rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. head: Ministerial Statements THE SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Advanced Education and Career Development. Designated Occupations MR. ADY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today we celebrate the first designation of an occupation under the Apprenticeship and Industry Training Act. The legislation includes provisions for designated occupations in order to address in a flexible and responsible manner the new realities of the labour market: global competition, new technologies, new skills and knowledge requirements, and increased industry participation in training. A designated occupation is established around a set of particular job skills and competencies. Standards of performance are set, and training is developed to meet those standards.

Employees who complete the training and achieve the standards are awarded a provincial certificate that is recognized within the industry. Our first designated occupation is that of gas utility operator. A gas utility operator installs an d maintains gas mains and gas utility distribution systems. Specific training standards will help ensure proper safety procedures within the gas distribution industry and in the public it serves. Earlier I had the pleasure of introducing the members of the Gas Utility Operators Provisional Committee.

This comm ittee played an instrumental role in the designation of the occupation. On behalf of their industry the committee determined the scope of the occupation and instituted a fine training program at NAIT. I'm pleased to inform the memb ers of this House that total financial support for the design and delivery of the training comes from the industry. This financial model will be used for all designated occupations. I'd like to congratulate the Gas Utility Operators Provisional Committee for its work.

This committee and its achievement represent a fine example of industry taking a lead role to ensure that its personnel develop the skills, knowl- edge, and high standards required in Alberta's labour market. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Leduc. MR. KIRKLAND: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'm pleased to respond to the ministerial statement this afternoon, and I'm very pleased to offer congratulations on behalf of the Liberal Party to the Gas Utility Operators Provisional Committee, the apprentice- ship board, and of course the Minister of Advanced Education and Career Development on achieving and getting the designation status for the gas utility operators. Mr. Speaker, it's been a long time coming, and I would suggest that there's a need to build on this particular initiative.

This committee and the apprenticeship board have opened the door for future designations, and I would suggest that that would be welcome in the province of Alberta as well. Undoubtedly the partnership and co-operation that must exist between industry and government are critical for training programs to succeed and for the programs to be responsive to the labour markets. I would offer my commendation to the Minister of Advanced Education and Career Development for facilitating the gas utility operators and also to the industry itself in arriving at this particu- lar designation.

I would wish the gas utility operators, those that will very soon carry that title, the industry itself, and NAIT the utmost success in the upcoming career that has been created for Albertans. head: Oral Question Period 1:50 School Taxes MR. MITCHELL: Mr. Speaker, the province has mandated a uniform provincial mill rate for education property taxes. This will create huge increases in some people's property taxes across this province. The government is compounding the problem by mandating market value assessments for properties at about the same time.

To the Premier: where is the equity in the owner of a 1,200 square foot bungalow in Jasper, Alberta, paying more into the education funding pool than the owner of an identical house in Calgary? MR. KLEIN: Mr. Speaker, it is so typical of the Liberals to point out the negative. Under this new redistribution system 67 percent of municipalities in this province will see tax decreases. That represents 88 percent of the population. We have been trying to come to grips with this problem for years and years, first through corporate pooling and other devices.

Finally the minister and this government have come to grips with the situation. Fundamental to this situation is that there is now equity, that kids have an equal chance in this province, and that's what's impor- tant. MR. MITCHELL: What equity is there for a senior citizen on a fixed income who has just had her property tax benefit chopped last year by this government and who is now faced with an increase in property taxes of as much as 300 percent over the next five years? What kind of equity is there in this province for a senior like that, Mr. Premier? MR. KLEIN: Mr.

Speaker, this will have to be worked out over time, and the minister has agreed to review this, especially as it affects senior citizens. I would point out that under this plan 67 percent of municipalities representing 88 percent of the population will actually see tax decreases. MR. MITCHELL: These people can't wait for a review. What is the Premier going to do now, not after some review but now, before people are forced to sell their homes to pay for arbitrary property tax increases they won't be able to afford? MR. KLEIN: Well, Mr. Speaker, that is a pretty bold assumption based on absolutely nothing.

1288 Alberta Hansard April 25, 1995 I will have the hon. Minister of Education supplement and set the hon. leader of the Liberal Party straight on this issue. MR. JONSON: Well, Mr. Speaker, I think that it should be also acknowledged from those across the way that in those few cases across the province where there is a significant increase in the mill rate projected, we are phasing this in over a three-year period for most of the province and a five-year period for those in extreme cases.

At the end of the day I think it's very important to note that across this province there will be a uniform mill rate for all residents of the province paying property tax, and it will be based on the same system of assessment. That is fair and equitable for all those people in this province. Kindergarten Programs MR. MITCHELL: Mr. Speaker, families of British army personnel in Medicine Hat are surprised that their children cannot get 800 hours of kindergarten like they would receive in Britain.

They reflect a belief held in other jurisdictions, held in other countries, held by many Albertans in fact that children need a strong start in early education. Meanwhile, this government defeated a private member's Bill earlier in this session which would have provided for a minimum 400-hour kindergarten program available to all children across this province. To the Premier: why is the Premier putting Alberta children at a competitive disadvantage by offering one-quarter the amount of early education that is offered in other countries? MR. KLEIN: Well, we aren't, Mr. Speaker. We aren't. MR.

MITCHELL: Will the Premier confirm the statement made by the Member for Lethbridge-West last week at a conference in Lethbridge that the Conservative caucus was not allowed a free vote on my private member's Bill 202 to provide a 400-hour kindergarten program for children across this province? MR. KLEIN: No. Mr. Speaker, I honestly can't confirm it because this is the first I've heard of such a statement. MR.

MITCHELL: Does the Premier not realize, judging by what the Member for Lethbridge-West had to say in that public forum, that had he allowed a free vote on this issue in the Legislature, there would in fact be 400 hours of kindergarten available for children today across this province regardless of their ability to pay? MR. KLEIN: Mr. Speaker, I don't know what the Member for Lethbridge-West said or what he didn't say. [interjection] No, I don't read with a great deal of regularity the Lethbridge Herald.

I see that my hon. colleague the Member for Lethbridge-West has risen on a point of order, and I'm sure he will be glad later on to explain his remarks to the hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Sherwood Park. Paddle River Dam MR. COLLINGWOOD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On March 28, 1994, the Deputy Minister of Justice in Alberta requested that the Saskatchewan Justice department undertake an assessment of the Paddle River dam fiasco to determine whether a police investigation into criminal activity was warranted. Over one year has elapsed, and the report has yet to be released.

Albertans want to get to the bottom of this mess once and for all and find out who was responsible for tendering irregularities and deceitful actions cited in Justice Feehan's judgment of March 22, 1994. My question is to the Premier. Can the Premier elaborate on why the wheels of justice on this important test of government responsibil- ity and accountability are moving so slowly? MR. KLEIN: Mr. Speaker, I've often wondered that myself. Indeed I've asked the Minister of Justice from time to time what the delay is. I take it that they want to do as thorough a job as they possibly can.

I will have the hon. minister supplement. MR. EV ANS: Mr. Speaker, for all members of the Assembly and Albertans who are interested in this important issue, it should be understood that the trial of the action on the Opron statement of claim took a number of years before our courts. The number of pages is probably in the six to seven feet high level. This is a very, very complicated contractual issue. It has been sent to Saskatchewan.

We quite frankly understood that we would have a report back from Saskatchewan before the end of last year, but as the Premier stated, Saskatchewan has taken the time and are continuing to take the time to do a thorough review of all of the information that's available and review the transcripts from the trial and all the evidence that was before the court at the trial. It's my under- standing that the report will be coming very quickly to us, but again I've said that previously. It is up to Saskatchewan, when they feel that their report is complete, to submit that document to us.

As I say, it's my understanding that that will be soon. THE SPEAKER: Supplemental question. MR. COLLINGWOOD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Given that answer, to the Minister of Justice: will the minister undertake to find out when that report is going to be delivered to the province of Alberta and indicate that date to us in the House? MR. EV ANS: Mr. Speaker, I think I tried to answer that, as did the Premier. We sent the question over to Saskatchewan and asked them to analyze all of the information available from the trial. They are doing just that.

They've indicated to us that the report from Saskatchewan will be coming back to us very quickly, and I quite expect that that is the case. We are in very regular communication with Saskatchewan on this matter. 2:00 THE SPEAKER: Final supplemental. MR. COLLINGWOOD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My final supplemental to the Premier: will the Premier assure Albertans that the Saskatchewan Justice report will be released in its entirety and will not be censored by this government before it's released? MR. KLEIN: Well, I stand to be corrected, and perhaps the hon.

Minister of Justice can clarify if indeed I'm mistaken in my comments, but I believe there was an undertaking that in fact the report would be released in its entirety. MR. EV ANS: I believe that the Premier is absolutely correct, Mr. Speaker. I think he made that commitment when he sent this issue over to Saskatchewan for review. The review is on the

April 25, 1995 Alberta Hansard 1289 issue of whether there should be any criminal charges, whether there's any criminal activity revealed by either the evidence or the judgment of the court here in Alberta. His undertaking was that when that report was back, it would be tabled, that it would be made available to the public. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Lac La Biche-St. Paul. [applause] MR. LANGEVIN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If this were a week ago, I would say that my caucus is firing on one piston only. Interprovincial Trade MR.

LANGEVIN: Many small rural and urban municipalities and hospitals and school boards are concerned that the agreement on internal trade will cause a financial hardship to their opera- tions. The staff in local governments are already stretched to the limit. They cannot afford increased staff to comply with new regulations that are required under the new internal trade agree- ment. My question is to the Minister of Federal and Intergovern- mental Affairs. Will the small local governments have the option to opt out of the program at their own discretion? MR. ROSTAD: Mr. Speaker, I think the short answer would be no.

They don't have the option to opt out. What we have to understand is that 60 percent of the procurement that goes on in Canada comes from the municipal side of business, so it's very important, if you're going to have an internal trade agreement that works and breaks down the barriers, that you include the munici- palities, advanced education, schools, and hospitals. The free trade agreement starts July 1 of this year, and from a recent meeting of provincial ministers it looks like things will be ready.

At that time we hope to have an agreement with the MASH sector across Canada which will bring them into the agreement, and they'll have a year subsequent in which to get their place in order. I think I can allay the fears that the hon. member brings to the Assembly for the small municipality through negotiations with AAMD and C and AUMA. There have been some provisions. I don't have them with me. I don't know that they're quite finished. But there are accommodations for the smaller munici- palities such that it won't be a burden. THE SPEAKER: Supplemental question. MR. LANGEVIN: Y es.

Again to the same minister: in view of the fact that they will be required to advertise tenders, will local governments still have the option to go to invitational tenders, as some have done in the past? MR. ROSTAD: Again, Mr. Speaker, not being at the table on the negotiations, I would suggest that the member talk to the negotiator from AUMA or actually the public works department, who handles the procurement.

I think there is an accommodation on the table such that the smaller municipalities won't have to worry about the tendering process or the costs of advertising, which have been the issues, but I don't have any personal knowledge of that. Either we can get it or you can talk to the AUMA or public works negotiators. THE SPEAKER: Final supplemental? Community Health Centres MRS. ABDURAHMAN: Mr. Speaker, Albertans want a caring, cost-effective health care system, and they want the largest portion of their dollar devoted to patient care.

Now we learn that the Lakeland regional health authority has directed the hospitals of Fort Saskatchewan and Lac La Biche to be known as health centres and not hospitals. I'd like to table 90 copies of a letter from the office of the mayor of the town of Lac La Biche. I believe every member should read this letter. My question is to the Premier. How can you allow this government-appointed health authority to pass on this unnecessary administrative cost, the cost of new letterhead, the cost of new signage, when all they're doing is simply changing a name? MR. KLEIN: Well, Mr.

Speaker, this is the first I've heard of it. I'd be glad to read the letter as to the costs associated with this move. I really don't know what they are, but certainly I would suspect that this is a move to reflect the shift from institutionalized care to community-based health. I will have the hon. minister supplement. MRS. McCLELLAN: Mr.

Speaker, certainly I expect the regional health authorities to be responsible in the administrative costs of such a move, but I would applaud the regional health authorities, Lakeland and others, who have made the decision, as many have, to designate community health centres rather than strictly the hospital-based program that they had. Indeed this is a very positive move for communities where there are expanded services, many of them on one site, where they are making very good utilization of present structures and have in some cases done some renovations. They truly have a community health centre. Mr.

Speaker, rather than picking away and looking for little things to find wrong with the re structuring in this system, we should applaud communities who are moving to provide more services to their citizens rather than just simply institutions. MRS. ABDURAHMAN: Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Health: how can you justify taking scarce dollars away from patient care when you do not know what the definition of a health centre is? We're not talking about a community health centre. Tell us; tell Albertans. What is a health centre? MRS.

McCLELLAN: I would hope that I'm a little more knowledgeable than the member opposite, b ecause she doesn't even seem to be able to conceptualize what a health centre is. The very words "health centre" would denote to people that there are health services in that centre rather than simply treatment services. The treatment model of health, the medical model of health, is still an important part of the system, but it is not the only part, and there is an increasing recognition in Alberta, in Canada, in the world. In fact, Mr.

Speaker, the countries who have recognized this are the world leaders in health outcomes, because they have recognized that it is important to have whole health, population health as well as simply treatment. 2:10 MRS. ABDURAHMAN: My final supplemental, Mr. Speaker, is to the Premier. Now that you've made the H signs on high- ways and freeways meaningless, how will Albertans know where to get emergency treatment? MR. KLEIN: The great big H now means health in all ways, shapes, and forms.

1290 Alberta Hansard April 25, 1995 THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary-Fish Creek. MRS. FORSYTH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have some . . . [interjections] THE SPEAKER: Order. [interjections] Order, hon. members. Order. The hon. Member for Calgary-Fish Creek. Education Funding MRS. FORSYTH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have some deep concerns regarding the elimination of the position of itinerant teacher for the home confined. A r ecent decision made by the Calgary public school board scrapping this position and keeping a part-time women's advisory position is beyond my comprehen- sion.

The itinerant teacher is a vital link between the school and students who through no fault of th eir own are forced by illness or accident to remain at home. My question today is to the Minister of Education. Could the minister please indicate what is more important: a hands-on itinerant teacher position helping sick kids at home or an administrative position dealing with women's issues? MR. JONSON: Mr.

Speaker, quite clearly my emphasis as minister and the emphasis in terms of our funding and direction of the government are on the student and on instruction for the student and care for special-needs students; in other words, overall service to the student. In terms of the decision-making process and the priorities that might be set by a particular school board, I would not comment or speculate on that. Certainly our focus as a government is on the student. THE SPEAKER: Supplemental question. MRS. FORSYTH: Thank you. Then, my second question is to the Minister of Community Development.

Is it possible for the Calgary public school board to call upon the women's advisory council currently in place with their issues and concerns? MR. MAR: Well, Mr. Speaker, indeed we do have a valuable resource with the Alberta Advisory Council on Women's Issues, and I would certainly invite the Calgary public school board to take advantage of that resource. THE SPEAKER: Final supplemental. MRS. FORSYTH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Back to the Minister of Education.

Could you please clarify: with the funding framework announcement was it not this government's intention to drive funding out of administration and into the classroom? MR. JONSON: Y es, it certainly is, Mr. Speaker. It is more than an intention; it is a reality in terms of the provisions of the funding framework which have been announced since February of this year. In the case of Calgary public there is an additional $13 million directed into instructi on, and that coincides with a significant reduction, yes, on the administrative side that is provided for there.

We have a 4 percent cap on central office administration, and we have a phasing-in approach to reach that cap overall. So clearly we are emphasizing placing the resources on instruction. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Redwater. Forest Management MR. N. TA YLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last Friday, when I was in the Peace River area discussing forestry issues with the public and industry, I also had an appointment with the regional manager for Alberta forest service, Mr. Leary.

This was transferred the day before to an assistant, but when I turned up Friday, I was told that no one was available, nor would they be even if I waited all day. Now, to the minister: will the minister agree to table in the House copies of any letters or faxes he sent to the Peace River forestry office instructing them not to see me? MR. LUND: Mr. Speaker, I would be only too happy to file any faxes or letters that I sent, because there are none. MR. N.

TA YLOR: Is the minister prepared to say categorically that neither he nor his top staff in Edmonton, acting on his instructions, ordered the Peace River forestry office to cancel my appointment? MR. LUND: Mr. Speaker, it was my understanding that in fact the hon. member did have an appointment with the chief ranger, and in fact the hon. member never came and fulfilled the appoint- ment. MR. N. TA YLOR: It's not easy to get lost in Peace River, Mr. Speaker, but if anybody could, he could. THE SPEAKER: Question. MR. N. TA YLOR: For his information, I was there a couple of hours.

Is the minister afraid that his staff might spill the beans because they are demoralized by this government's reign of terror against employees? MR. LUND: Well, Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is dipping about as low as I've ever seen anyone in this House dip. The fact is that I have been out and meeting with the staff. I have been getting just tremendous r eceptions. The staff have been very, very anxious to move forward with our reorganization. I've had compliments all over the province. I'm sure that the hon. member is wishful thinking. [interjections] THE SPEAKER: Order. [interjections] Order.

The time for this question has expired. The hon. Member for Medicine Hat. School Taxes (continued) MR. RENNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This morning the Minister of Education and the Minister of Municipal Affairs announced a new, uniform education property tax rate for municipalities. While this new rate will mean decreased education property taxes for the majority of municipalities, some will experience increases. We've already heard the fear mongering side of the issue; I'd like to deal with the facts.

To the Minister of Education: would the minister explain why this new approach to funding education is being implemented? MR. JONSON: In terms of the government's direction for funding education, we have developed and have announced a new

April 25, 1995 Alberta Hansard 1291 funding framework for education in the province which provides for equitable funding for each student in this province to access a quality education wherever they might reside within the separate or public school system of the province. Along with that, Mr. Speaker, it was an important decision for the government to also provide that in providing funds to the Alberta school foundation fund through the property tax, property owners across this province should be able to pay at the same uniform mill rate.

This is being phased in and on the same overall program of assessment; in other words, fair and equitable payment from property taxes to education, fair and equitable payment in support of students. THE SPEAKER: Supplemental question. MR. RENNER: Thank you. To the same minister: will this change in the education property tax system have any impact on the ability of school boards to provide quality education to their students? MR. JONSON: No, Mr. Speaker.

The move to a uniform mill rate, as I have just indicated, is an approach to providing on a fair and equitable basis a means of paying property taxes towards the support of education. It's the funding framework which provides for a sound basis for funding education for students. THE SPEAKER: Final supplemental. MR. RENNER: Thank you. My final question, Mr. Speaker, is to the Minister of Municipal Affairs. I would like to ask the minister what steps are being taken to minimize the impact on individual taxpayers living in those areas where tax rates will change significantly? 2:20 MR. THURBER: Mr.

Speaker, as we move to a uniform mill rate across this province, it just simply means that everybody will pay their fair share of the education taxes. As we adjust this downward to the provincial average of 7.3 mills, some people's property education taxes will increase. The phase-in process is going to take place over a period of three years to bring the majority of them to the provincial average. In those exceptional cases where they're out of sync by a lot more than that, as some areas are, there will be a further phase-in of an additional two years, which would bring it to five years.

I think this adjustment is necessary to make sure that everybody pays on the same basis right across this province, on the same foundation and the same mill rate throughout to provide and pay for the excellent education system that we have in this province. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for West Y ellowhead. Forest Regions Restructuring MR. V AN BINSBERGEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Two weeks ago the employees of the Edson forest region were told by their director that the headquarters of the newly combined Edson- Whitecourt forest region will be in Whitecourt as of September 1.

Now, I asked the Minister of Environmental Protection about this at the time, and he told me that no decision had as yet been made. So I have a simple question for the minister. I'd like to ask him: who's speaking the truth, he or his director? MR. LUND: Mr. Speaker, there is an amalgamation going on in our forest districts. We will be moving from 10 superintendents to four, and we will be having some regional offices of forestry in various locations. The director of forests will be in that location. That doesn't mean to say a wholesale moving of people.

The great movement is in the ability to make decisions, and we will be moving out money to the regions so that they will be able to make decisions out there that will, in fact, show some savings. The plan currently is that the forestry headquarters will be in Whitecourt but in fact that there would be the opportunity once we get moved through this for possibly one of the other directors to be in Edson. THE SPEAKER: Supplemental question. MR. V AN BINSBERGEN: Mr. Speaker, thank you. It sounds like it'll cost a lot of money, all these changes.

How can the minister justify this move, when clearly Edson has the modern provincial space and is located geographically in the centre of the area? MR. LUND: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member apparently didn't hear my complete answer. I said that there was the opportunity that another regional director would be in Edson, and, yes, there is room there.

But one of the things I have told the executive that I want to see happen is that the regional co-ordinating committee would move around the region, become involved in the communi- ties, meet with the elected officials in the various communities, meet with the chambers of commerce and the stakeholders. So I don't think there's any great magic about having one of the directors in your community. MR. V AN BINSBERGEN: It's just increased costs. Mr. Speaker, my final question again to the minister: could he explain what considerations, other than political ones, played a role in this decision? MR. LUND: Mr.

Speaker, obviously the hon. member isn't listening. I said that there is the opportunity of one of the other regional directors being in the town of Edson. So if in fact that is a political decision, I would hope the hon. member would thank me. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Lesser Slave Lake. Fort McMurray Regional Health Authority MS CALAHASEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As a northern MLA I'm concerned about reports that physicians in Fort McMurray are withdrawing from regional committee work. We need their expertise in all health authorities.

In Keeweetinok Lakes health region physicians in the authority have developed an excellent working relationship. I would like the minister to explain to the Assembly what she is doing to see that a positive working relationship is developed between the physicians and the RHA in Fort McMurray. MRS. McCLELLAN: Well, Mr. Speaker, I'm as disappointed as the hon. member is when I hear that there is a relationship that is less than good between our physicians and their regional health authority.

About a year ago in the AMA/Alberta Health negotia- tions we made a commitment together to put in place physician liaison councils to work in every region to ensure that the voice of physicians was heard. Beyond that, we took that one step further, and the Alberta Medical Association and the minister and

1292 Alberta Hansard April 25, 1995 the regional health authorities formed a tripartite committee to address this issue and others. The result of that, agreed upon by the three parties, was that physicians should be appointed to fully participate at a board level and that that appointee should be made from the physician liaison council. Further to that, Mr. Speaker – further to that – a physician must be appointed to any committee that has to do with planning or clinical practice or patient care.

So when I hear that physicians have indeed withdrawn from regional health authority committee work, I am very concerned. MS CALAHASEN: Mr. Speaker, with that in mind, then, would the minister be prepared to meet with Fort McMurray physicians to discuss their concerns? MRS. McCLELLAN: Mr. Speaker, I would be quite prepared to meet with Fort McMurray physicians through their physician liaison council, including the regional health authority. MS CALAHASEN: Mr. Speaker, since they are having prob- lems, can the regional health authorities appoint physicians as voting members of their boards?

If not, would the minister make such appointments herself? MRS. McCLELLAN: Physicians have not ever, to my knowl- edge, been made voting members of hospital boards. However, they have been members of hospital boards for years and years and years in this province, and it has worked very well. In fact, Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that in most regions there is one or more physician sitting on every board, including in the two major centres the deans of medicine of both medical schools, and I think that's quite important. Mr.

Speaker, there are by legislation only 15 persons that may be appointed to a board, and in many cases the boards have a complement of 15 persons at this time. However, it is not unusual and not in any way untoward to have physicians there fully participating but not as voting members, and certainly doing it in that manner would remove physicians from any concerns about being in conflict, as we had deemed important when we set out that legislation. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Manning. Federal Transfer Payments MR. SEKULIC: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

A report prepared by the Dominion Bond Rating Service reveals that Alberta's health care, education, and social safety net system will suffer a $557 million cumulative loss by 1997-98 as a result of changes to federal transfer payments. On February 28 the Treasurer indicated that reductions in federal transfers could be managed without changing the provincial spending plan. My questions are to the Provincial Treasurer.

Given that on page 38 of the 1995 provincial budget the Treasurer assumes no changes in provincial revenues from any transfer measures, will the Treasurer commit to table in this Assembly as soon as possible the revised fiscal

summary for the '96-97 and the '97-98 years so that Albertans know the true accounts? That's a yes or no question, Mr. Treasurer. MR. DINNING: Mr. Speaker, might I point out to the hon. member that it is the Liberal government, the Liberal government in Ottawa that is reducing its spending in health and postsecondary education in the province of Alberta by nearly 25 percent, indeed, over the next two years.

Whereas the provincial government didn't go to those lengths, the federal Liberal government are reducing their spending on health and postsecondary education by nearly 25 percent. 2:30 Mr. Speaker, in our budgetary plans that came out on February 21, we made it clear that for '96-97 and '97-98 we had made some provisions for a reduction in federal transfers because we knew what the Liberals were going to do. We knew that the Liberals were going to cut their spending in health and postsecondary education, so we made provision for most of those cuts, most of those reductions, and they fit within our fiscal plan.

We will clearly have to go back as we prepare for budget '96. We have to make provision for additional spending cuts by the Liberal government, but we believe that the steps they have taken, a 25 percent reduction in their spending, can be accommodated within our financial plan. THE SPEAKER: Supplemental question. MR. SEKULIC: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm not sure how the Treasurer would do on a multiple choice. As I recall, it was the Treasurer that told Ottawa it was all right to cut.

My second question to the Treasurer is: can he tell Albertans what size of revenue cushion has been built into the $408 million surplus budget that the government is projecting for 1997-98 in order to deal with this loss of $557 million in cash funding? Just the fact. MR. DINNING: Mr. Speaker, you're right. The Premier of this province and indeed my colleagues on this side of the Assembly said to Ottawa that they had to reduce their spending. But it was unlike what we did. We set priorities.

We said that we were going to cut our spending by 5.6 percent in education over four years, not 25 percent like the federal Liberals have done. We wouldn't cut education spending by 25 percent like the federal Liberals did. Clearly we would not. We spelled out in our financial plan, we made assumptions on the revenue side that our revenues from Ottawa would be reduced by about $150 million in '96-97 and about $300 million in '97-98.

It in fact will be more than that, because they've cut their spending on health and postsecondary education in Alberta by 25 percent over two years, far more than we would have dreamed of doing. Indeed having accounted for most of the reduction, we don't believe that it's going to have a severe impact on our fiscal plan, but we will review that over the year and come back with budget '96. THE SPEAKER: Final supplemental. MR. SEKULIC: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the Minister of Justice would agree that often perpetrators tend to point fingers. Mr. Speaker, my final question is for the record.

Is the Treasurer prepared to stand up in this Legislature and assure Albertans, who will have suffered $2.64 billion in cuts between '92-93 and '96-97, that program expenditures will not fall below the $1 1.84 billion projected for '97-98? Once again a yes or no will do, Mr. Treasurer. MR. DINNING: Mr. Speaker, it's hard to tell. The Member for Edmonton-Roper the other day in arguing about the Balanced

April 25, 1995 Alberta Hansard 1293 Budget and Debt Retirement Act stood and said that we weren't cutting enough. Now I hear the Member for Edmonton-Manning saying that we should cut no more. The fact is, Mr. Speaker, that we've made it clear that we are going to live within the taxpayers' means. We are not going to run a deficit. The Liberals have said that they would advocate a deficit every other year, five times a decade. Fifty times a century they would advocate a deficit.

We've made it clear that we will not tolerate a deficit because Albertans will not tolerate a deficit, and we will live within Albertans' means. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Lethbridge-West. Tourists from the U.S. MR. DUNFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are to the minister responsible for Economic Development and Tourism. American tourists are very important to the economic well-being of the city of Lethbridge and of course to southwest Alberta. Also, most Americans drive through Lethbridge on their way to other points in Alberta.

Will the minister responsible for Economic Development and Tourism tell the House how many American tourists are projected to visit Alberta this summer? THE SPEAKER: The hon. minister responsible for Economic Development and Tourism. MR. SMITH: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. In fact, we are projecting and hoping for 866,000 American tourists to visit Alberta in this coming year. Now, that's a 3 percent increase. It indicates that ther e will still be growth in tourism. Many of these tourists will stop in Lethbridge.

Many would probably want to see local tourist attractions, such as perhaps the Member for Lethbridge-West himself, play in the many tourist values that are there: Paradise Canyon, which is a world-class golf course, the Japanese Garden. So we're hoping that not only will they use Lethbridge as a gateway, but in fact they will be stopping in Lethbridge and spending some of their money there. MR. DUNFORD: Mr. Speaker, I'm glad he clarified that. We're more than just a city to drive by.

Will the minister responsible for Economic Development and Tourism tell the House how much money it is expected that these American tourists will spend in Alberta? THE SPEAKER: The hon. minister. MR. SMITH: Thank you. Interestingly enough, Mr. Speaker, the strength of the Canadian dollar that's occurring in the short term may have an effect on the forecast, but in fact we indicate that there'll be a 4 and a half percent increase in money spent by American tourists in Alberta th is year, that being a number of $408 million. The department has targeted $3.9 billion in total tourism receipts in Alberta by 1997.

I can only hope that these numbers are in fact achieved, notwithstanding the negative publicity that the opposition has a tendency to put forth in this American market whenever we are trying to build trade and investment in that important marketplace. THE SPEAKER: Final supplemental. MR. DUNFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What has the department of Economic Development and Tourism done to educate Alberta businesses on the importance of giving American tourists a fair exchange rate on their dollar? MR. SMITH: Well, most important, Mr.

Speaker, is that the private sector knows that the reputation for good service, world- class, world-best level of service and giving that fair deal in a businesslike setting are what bring people back. Good customer service brings people back. In fact, there is a 1-800 information line. There are nine visitor information centres, that serve potential tourists. We have not had many complaints in the department that address the difference in exchange.

Most importantly, we have developed a program that strongly puts Alberta's best service foot forward in such a way that we're offering a level of service to the American tourist that they recognize and come to expect as a world-class level of service. Therefore that marketplace becomes very, very important to us. Thank you. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Spruce Grove-Sturgeon- St. Albert. Maintenance Enforcement MRS. SOETAERT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This govern- ment's lack of understanding, sensitivity, and plain ignorance about maintenance enforcement is very revealing.

Not only do they refuse to consider proven alternatives to help with collection; government members continue to make distressing comments such as the one made by the Minister of Labour, who after meeting with a group of Red Deer parents struggling to get their child support is quoted as saying: government's can only do so much; it's a community responsibility really. My questions are to the Minister of Justice.

Is the reason that your government refuses to consider improvements or apply tough enforcement measures because you think collection of child support and forcing parents to pay their arrears is not the government's responsibility? Do you support that statement? MR. EV ANS: Mr. Speaker, actions speak much louder than words, and this government has been committed to the mainte- nance enforcement program since it was initiated in this province back in February of 1986. Since that time, we have collected in excess of $389 million pursuant to court-awarded maintenance orders.

We have continually improved that system so that we access data communications, so that we access whatever electron- ics are available to us, so that as of last year, when we made a change to the collection procedures, we can prevent people from having their licences renewed, from getting new registrations, from getting drivers' licences. We are doing everything we can to make this program effective. 2:40 Now that said, there are some individuals who make it very difficult for us to collect.

Sometimes it's because of illness, sometimes it's because an individual is outside of the province and we don't have any authority, any jurisdiction to collect, but that's less than 20 percent of all of those collections that we are responsible for in this province. Of those that are collectible we have received in excess of 82 percent payment on those accounts in the last 90 days, and over 60 percent have received payments in the last month. That's the proof in the pudding, Mr. Speaker.

1294 Alberta Hansard April 25, 1995 MRS. SOETAERT: My question to the Minister of Justice: do the statements made by the Minister of Labour signal a plan by the government to get out of the business of maintenance enforce- ment and foist this important responsibility on the community? MR. EV ANS: Mr. Speaker, as I said in my first answer, this government is committed to the maintenance enforcement program. We recognize that it assists families, it assists children, and we remain committed to it. We remain committed to it through the budgetary process.

We remain committed to it through our focus on improving the quality of life for Albertans. THE SPEAKER: Hon. Minister of Labour, a point of order? MR. DA Y: Supplementary information. THE SPEAKER: Well, if it's to clarify the hon. Minister of Labour's statements, that's not supplemental information. That'll come in a point of order. MR. DA Y: Point of order, Mr. Speaker. MRS.

SOETAERT: My final supplemental: how are you going to help these parents, many of whom are like those from Red Deer, struggling to get an education to improve their family's future yet are faced with dr opping out b ecause they can't get consistent child support? It's not enough. MR. EV ANS: Mr. Speaker, as I've mentioned, there are some uncollectibles. Y ou can't get blood from a rock; you can't get blood from a stone. If an individual is not working, if an individual is out of the jurisdiction, we cannot collect money from those individuals.

Of those who are in the province who are working, who are making income, we have a very high success rate. Now, we are not creating those orders. They are created by the courts. Our job is to enforce them. We take that responsibility seriously. We have dedicated people who are working in the maintenance enforcement program to go after those individuals who are not living up to the orders that are granted by the courts. We feel compelled to do that, Mr.

Speaker, because in many instances if those individuals who are not paying are not stopped, not forced to pay, then our social services and other aspects of government and therefore the community must pick up those costs. I'd quite imagine that that's what my colleague the hon. Minister of Labour was referring to, that society ends up picking up these costs. The first responsibility, of course, is on the individual to whom the order applies, and we will continue to fine-tune and improve a very effective maintenance enforcement program to ensure that that goal is achieved.

THE SPEAKER: The time for question period has expired. Before moving to Members' Statements, might there be unanimous consent in the Assembly to revert to Introduction of Guests? HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. THE SPEAKER: Opposed? The hon. minister of science and research. head: Introduction of Guests (reversion) MRS. MIROSH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly a very important constituent of mine, Dr. David Walcott, who also sits as a council member of the Chiropractic Association. All my colleagues want to know who that blond is beside you as well, Dr.

Walcott. Would you please receive the warm welcome and have the lady next to you rise as well. Thank you. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Spruce Grove-Sturgeon- St. Albert. MRS. SOETAERT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly two women very concerned about the maintenance issue in this province, Fiona McNair and Sonia Russ. I would ask them to please rise and receive the warm welcome of the Assembly. MR. KIRKLAND: While we're on Introduction of Guests, Mr.

Speaker, I would like to introduce to you and through you to the rest of the Assembly a very astute political student I've noticed in the balcony on several occasions. I would ask Dan Backs to stand and receive the warm welcome of the crowd here this afternoon. head: Members' Statements THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Sherwood Park. Earth Day MR. COLLINGWOOD: Y es, indeed. Mr. Speaker, last weekend Albertans joined with people across the world to celebrate the 25th annual Earth Day.

This initiative, to draw public attention to the serious damage that we're doing to our planet, is one of the largest annual initiatives in the world, embracing all races, religions, and cultures in 150 countries. Many Albertans celebrated Earth Day this year with activities in many schools and public events such as the celebration held at Hawrelak park in Edmonton. This year's event in Edmonton attracted nearly double the previous number of participants. Mr. Speaker, the human race must hear this message. We are merely one of the species that share this planet. We have only one Earth and must care for it.

Earth Day is a timely reminder of the need, in fact the obligation, to protect our air, soils, and water from pollution and of our responsibility to preserve our wildlife, land, and forests. Alberta is a beautiful province which has suffered far less from population pressures than many other parts of the world. We have no excuse for failing to preserve our natural habitats and the rich biodiversity they represent. Once we lose a species and genetic diversity, they are gone for all time, and this is a folly of which our descendants are least likely to forgive us.

Unfortunately, Alberta still has a long way to go in adequately protecting representative areas of our natural habitats. As we know, the World Wildlife Fund last week gave Alberta an F , a failing grade, in their annual report on the endangered spaces program. The government's Special Places 2000 program fails to meet the standards set by the world's largest conservation organization for protected areas partly because we have no guarantee that industrial activity, such as logging, mining, or oil and gas activities, will be excluded from designated sites in

April 25, 1995 Alberta Hansard 1295 Alberta. Fortunately, the Minister of Environmental Protection promised in the Legislature on April 24, 1995, that three-quarters of the land base of the 29 sites recently announced under Special Places will not have any kind of development on them. Mr. Speaker, while it is still not clear what areas will be protected, this is still good news. Thank you. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Beverly- Belmont. Maintenance Enforcement and Access Rights MR. Y ANKOWSKY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In the hue and cry last week respecting my speech to the Legislature regarding maintenance enforcement, some good has arisen. Many people, both men and women, have called to discuss with me their stories about perceived unfairness in the administration of maintenance enforcement and access rights in Alberta. In that regard, I am pleased to have played a role in raising this important matter for Alberta's families. Unfortunately, during that debate I quoted some inflammatory language.

I regret any inference that all parents with custody of their children are leeches or that those wit hout custody are deadbeats, and I apologize if I offended some people. I also regret that in the midst of arguments on both sides the children seem to get lost and become pawns in wars between their estranged parents. I have heard many passionate and heart- wrenching stories over the last several days.

Most emotional are those descriptions of parents and grandparents who are denied the opportunity to see their children, and thereby their children are denied the opportunity of experiencing all that family life can bring. It is also regrettable that some groups have used this incident to continue to spread the impression that anyone who speaks out in favour of fairness in the system is somehow against women's issues.

By far, most people who called me to say that they had problems with the current judgments made around custody, maintenance, and access – and this includes both women and men – were polite, professional, and related their stories in a coherent manner. Unfortunately, those opposed were mostly rude and threatening. Few took the time to relate their real situations. This does not help the healthy debate over fairness in maintenance awards and access rights. Mr.

Speaker, I remain committed to such a calm and reasoned debate and look forward to continuing opportunities to do my job, to try to make society a fairer one, and to represent the views of all my constituents. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. 2:50 English as a Second Language Programs MR. HENRY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise to represent the views of my constituents. I had the pleasure some time ago of meeting with some grade 10 ESL, English as a Second Language, students at St. Joseph composite high school, St. Joe's, in my riding.

As their representative I told them that if they had something to say to me or the government, we would be prepared to listen and most happy to listen. These students had been in the country seven months at the time, had spoken no English on their arrival, and this is what they wrote to me: 1. We are new students in Canada. We have come from all over the world. We are worried that we may not be able to finish high school by the time we are twenty. It takes a long time to learn English. We would like you to continue to talk about the time limits with the education minister. 2.

We have come from many places and different education systems, but we all value Secondary and post Secondary education. However we feel that fees for university and the colleges are too expensive now. We want lower fees, so that all students can have an education, not just the rich. 3. Schools should not begin in August. We need the time to work to pay the tuition fees. 4. Why are we not using GST monies to finance the future of our young people through more scholarships and lower fees? 5. Continue to oppose the cuts to education. Now we have twice as many people in our school because of the cuts.

We need small classes in ESL to learn English faster. These are the words of students from the ESL 10A class at St. Joe's high school. To give you a breakdown of where they came from seven months prior to writing this, three came from Bosnia, one from Lebanon, one from Ethiopia, three from Poland, two from the Philippines, one from Cambodia, one from Thailand, nine from Vietnam, four from El Salvador, and one from Ukraine. Mr. Speaker, their words speak better than I ever could. Thank you. THE SPEAKER: The Chair has received notice of two points of order. First, the hon. Member for Lethbridge-West.

Point of Order Allegations against Members MR. DUNFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a new experience for me. I believe I'm rising under 23(h), about making allegations. It came up during the second main question of the hon. Leader of the Opposition. I didn't rise on the first supplemental because I think there were some tiny grains of truth in some of his

preamble, but I rose on the second supplemental because now he had clearly gone far beyond anything that I had said or could possibly even have inferred and felt, then, that it was my duty. The allegation, as I understand it, was that I had indicated to people at the ECS forum held in Lethbridge that if the whips had not been on during the voting of his private member's Bill, somehow we would have 400 hours paid for by the government, and that's just simply not true. I did not say it in that context. I guess my only defence perhaps to you, Mr.

Speaker, and to the Members of the Legislative Assembly is to simply restate what I believe was said at that particular time. Before I do that, there were some comments back and forth about a Lethbridge Herald article. I don't have any complaints with the

article as written by the reporter from the Lethbridge Herald. Any member within this House is extremely aware that our comments are never taken verbatim, in full, so the reporter was able to pick and choose quotes from me that made up her particular article, and so be it. I'm quite aware. The situation was that we were in a bear pit session in a seminar that was clearly set up to be a lobbying type of effort, and as the representative for many people in that room, I was prepared to be involved in that. As it is my way, Mr. Speaker, when I'm in these situations, I tend to be very direct in my comments.

I was direct last Wednesday, and I hope that I'm being direct today. I did say that I supported 400 hours of ECS paid for by government funding. I did say that I was opposed to mandating any of those particular hours. I said that it was important that if people were as serious about this situation as I was, they had to

1296 Alberta Hansard April 25, 1995 keep up the pressure. I did speak about a close vote at a standing policy committee. I believe that if I'm guilty of anything on the part of my colleagues, which I am most concerned about, it's that I did speak about something that happened at a standing policy committee meeting. However – and I think this deals with what I allege then, the allegation – I did not discuss at any time any caucus activity and therefore did not offer to the audience or certainly to the hon. member any suggestion at all that the whips being on would have had any impact on a private member's Bill.

I was asked by a member of the audience that if a private member's Bill were to come forward regarding funding at 400 hours, would I vote for it, and I said no, that the whips would likely be on, and therefore that wasn't the way to effect any change in what I believe is this very important situation. So my case, Mr.

Speaker, is that the hon. member in his question took bits and pieces from things that I did say and wove them, then, in a manner that I don't think has fairly represented the directness and the honesty in which I tried to deal with a very serious situation at a forum that was being held in my constitu- ency. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Opposition House Leader. MR. BRUSEKER: Y es, Mr. Speaker. I, too, was at that same function that the Member for Lethbridge-West refers to along with the Leader of the Opposition and the Member for Lethbridge-East.

I guess the member is saying that he feels he was misquoted, but as I listen to him, what he said now is directly contradicting what I also heard, which was that with respect to Bill 202, which the Leader of the Opposition introduced, indeed the whips were on. In fact, when one refers back to Votes and Proceedings No. 6, reflecting Wednesday, February 22, 1995, although the Member for Lethbridge-West's name is not recorded there, all of those that were against the motion in fact were members from the govern- ment side of the House.

Indeed, the member did talk about those that were in discussion in a standing policy committee, that he, being the Member for Lethbridge-West, does support 400 hours of funding for ECS and believes that the government ought to pay for that sort of thing, and that the vote was lost to those opposed to 400 hours by a very small margin. But indeed if the whips were not on, as I heard at that same forum, Mr. Speaker, then indeed one would expect that votes of February 22 would be significantly different from what they are. So with respect, Mr. Speaker, I don't think there's a point of order here.

I think the member feels that perhaps he was misquoted, but as I reflect upon what the Member for Edmonton- McClung, the Leader of the Opposition, said in his question, it seems to me to confirm what I also heard in attendance at that same meeting in Lethbridge last Wednesday. So with respect I would suggest there's no casting of allegations under 23(

h) and there's no point of order here. 3:00 THE SPEAKER: Well, the Chair rules that this is the opportu- nity for members to clarify their positions, and I guess they've been as clarified on this subject as they can be. The hon. Minister of Labour. Point of Order Imputing Motives MR. DA Y: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My remarks on the point of order today, citing Standing Orders 23(

i) and 23(j), actually go far beyond clarification. I would like to say that it's not usual for me to respond to the incessant and mindless natterings of the Member for Spruce Grove-Sturgeon-St. Albert, which go on continually from the start of question period until 1 1 or midnight, whenever we get out of here, but in this particular case there is a practice that I think it would do well if you were to correct each and every one of us on as we or if we are to engage in it.

It is the practice of taking snippets of newspaper columns and using them in a pejorative sense to in fact impute upon another member something which is not true and also to do it in such a way, to use abusive or insulting language, that it creates disorder. When you have these unavowed motives attributed to you, especially on very sensitive issues like maintenance enforcement, it is very difficult to be silent because you feel strongly, you have a heartfelt feeling on these issues.

When they're used for the cheapest of opportunistic gain, I think there should be rulings on them, and I leave that to your judgment, Mr. Speaker. The case in point being a reference in the Red Deer Advocate, of which the member read two or three words, did not read the entire account, and in fact did not obviously consult with the women experiencing the difficulty.

The women in transition at Red Deer College I met with personally, individually, each one at Red Deer College, listened to their concerns, felt they had legitimate concerns, asked, number one, if they would like to meet with the director of maintenance enforcement personally so that each and every concern could be itemized and followed up on, to which there was agreement. That meeting I set up and arranged. I asked them further if I could take each and every one of their concerns to the hon.

Minister of Justice to have them addressed at that level, to which the women in transition re- sponded, "Y es, they would like that," and a further follow-up as late as Friday to see if it was moving quickly enough, and if it wasn't, what could I do to speed it up. Now, when as an elected representative you go to those lengths – and I don't broadcast that; I didn't take out an ad in the paper to say what I've done – and you see this cheap opportunistic attack coming in an oblique fashion, partially quoting a newspaper

article of all things, without any consultation, I think it is a very low level type of approach. Mr. Speaker, I can say that women have told me, not from the Assembly but other women, that the Member for Spruce Grove- Sturgeon-St. Albert, with her constant irrational nattering, gives women a bad name. I suggest that her practice also gives MLAs a bad name in this Assembly. MRS. SOETAERT: Mr. Speaker, just replying to this point of order, obviously the minister is very sensitive and quite defensive. I just asked a simple question about government policy.

When a minister makes a statement that it's a community responsibility, my question is: is the government foisting the responsib ility of maintenance on the community? That's what I asked the Minister of Justice responsible for maintenance. It was an honest, straightforward question, because I do care about what happens to children in this province, custodial and noncustodial parents. Thank you very much. THE SPEAKER: Well, hon. member, the Chair has heard enough. This is another instance where our Standing Orders do allow members to clarify situations that are unclear in the original instance. The hon.

Minister of Labour as did the hon. Member for Lethbridge-West availed themselves of that opportunity. As far as making a ruling, as suggested by the hon. Minister of Labour, the Chair is certainly not privy to the newspaper

article

April 25, 1995 Alberta Hansard 1297 in the Red Deer Advocate or what happened in Red Deer. That's why we do have the Standing Orders, to allow hon. members to set the record straight at this point of the day, and that's been done. head: Motions under Standing Order 40 THE SPEAKER: We'll move on to the next order, which is an application by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre for leave to move a motion under Standing Order 40. On the question of urgency, hon. member. National Literacy Campaign MR. HENRY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In terms of the urgency, it was launched yesterday, and there was a major launching in this city. I think it's timely simply for the Legisla- ture to recognize that fact and to provide I guess congratulations for those who are involved. I seek unanimous consent. THE SPEAKER: Is there consent in the Assembly for the hon. member to move the motion suggested? HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. THE SPEAKER: Opposed? The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. Moved by Mr. Henry:

Be it resolved that the Assembly recognize the launch of the national literacy campaign. MR. HENRY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. As I said, the national literacy campaign was launched yesterday, and I think it's important for members of the Legislature, for us, to have our attention brought to that fact and to recognize the individuals and organizations and companies involved in that launch. Mr.

Speaker, a well-known author and humorist in our country, Ben Wicks, has authored a book called Born to Read , and yesterday 1.6 million copies of that book, Born to Read , were distributed to young people, to children right across this country. There was a kickoff in our city at the Alex Taylor school, which is a school just outside of my riding that I have fond memories of, because for a number of years I lived immediately behind that school and had connections with the school. The school has exemplary leadership in the person of Mr.

Steve Ramsankar, who is well known to members on both sides of this House and around the country for innovation in education. That was one of the major reasons that Mr. Ramsankar, who incidently is also a member of the Order of Canada, that his school was chosen for the Edmonton kickoff. One of things that he noted is that because of the numbers, the percentage of new Canadians attending his school, the reading rate in his school, the literacy rate, was behind that of other schools in the jurisdiction, and it was appropriate, then, to bring this event to his school for the kickoff. Mr.

Speaker, the individuals involved in the kickoff included Eric Newell, the CEO of Syncrude, which is an Alberta-based company that we all know has provided many benefits to all parts of Alberta, as well as the chairperson of the Edmonton public school board, Mr. Dick Mather, who is also involved. As well, I'm very, very pleased that His Honour the Lieutenant Governor was able to be involved in the kickoff of this event yesterday by bringing his office and prestige and attention to this very worth- while cause. Mr.

Speaker, I wanted to bring to hon. members' attention that this project, the 1.6 million books being distributed across the country, was completed and enacted wit hout any public funds, without any taxpayers' dollars, primarily by organization and corporate sponsorship. In this province, to name only two of the corporate sponsors from around the country, I'd like to recognize Syncrude, as I recognized earlier, and their contribution and as well the Edmonton Oilers for their financial contribution to the printing and the distribution of the book.

Both Syncrude and the Edmonton Oilers have been very responsible corporate citizens and have supported many initiatives that help young people, not just this one. Somebody whom I respect and has a long history of education, a former education minister, actually, of this province, once said to me that if we could only find a way to have every parent read to each child for 20 minutes a day, we could solve a lot of problems in our schools and in our province. Mr.

Speaker, this initiative, the national literacy campaign, won't achieve that objective but takes us one small step but one very important step towards that goal of each child having the opportunity to read and each child having the opportunity to read with an adult to find out how important reading is, of being able to develop that skill, and then being able to move on and access all the knowledge and all the freedom in our society that reading, that literacy provides an individual. So, Mr.

Speaker, my hat's off to the national literacy campaign, to Steve Ramsankar and the staff, students, and parents at Alex Taylor school. My thanks to His Honour the Lieutenant Governor and as well to Syncrude and to the Edmonton Oilers for their corporate sponsorship. Thank you. 3:10 MR. JONSON: Mr. Speaker, I would certainly like to speak in support of the motion of the hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. The member has I think correctly identified the importance of reading as an essential skill for our young people. The event yesterday did have the good fortune to be attended by His Honour the Lieutenant Governor.

As was outlined, it had representatives from school systems. Alberta Education was represented at that particular function. It is a launch, a project. It has I think an excellent proponent in the person of cartoonist Ben Wicks. Certainly notable Canadians such as he coming forward to promote reading and literacy across this country give it the focus, the identification with somebody prominent in life that young people particularly appreciate.

The distribution of the guide Born to Read and the other associated activities were made possible through something that we're promoting a great deal through Alberta Education and as a government right now, and that is the development of partnerships with the private sector. In particular I, too, would like to acknowledge the role of the Edmonton Oilers, of Southam, of Syncrude, but particularly Syncrude and Mr.

Newell, who have been a great example of leadership in the private sector in terms of projects such as this but also in promoting the support that is needed from the private sector to work closely with the education system to achieve various objectives. I would just like to conclude by making two or three points about the importance of reading and literacy, Mr. Speaker.

One is that sometimes in modern debates about education in some sectors some people tend to deride the three Rs – readin', 'ritin', and 'rithmetic, as it used to be referred to – but reading and literacy is as important for young people today as it ever has

1298 Alberta Hansard April 25, 1995 been. It is important whether you are using the computer and reading from the screen or you are having the enjoyment and the relaxation that goes with sitting down and reading a good book. All the projections are that reading and literacy will remain and will continue to grow in its im portance as an essential skill for young people, for young adults, for the adult population. So the focus that is given in this week is certainly appropriate given the modern challenges and the modern needs that are out there in terms of education for young people.

The other point I wanted to make, Mr. Speaker, is that certainly if in the home parents have the time to read to their children at a young age, if they continue to make that skill important in the home to the lives of their young people, of their children, of their students as they get into the school system, then that is a tremen- dous assistance to the school and of course ultimately to the young person herself or himself. Where you have the home working together in support of the school and vice versa, you can accom- plish a great deal in education, particularly in this area and in many others.

So I think the week is an important one. It was launched yesterday, Mr. Speaker, with I think the appropriate priority, with His Honour being able to attend. I wish all involved every success, and I congratulate them for their efforts. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Mill Woods. DR. MASSEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to speak in support of the motion. In their book Creating a New Civilization Heidi and Alvin Toffler, the futurists, make the following comment: For the most important form of property is now intangible. It is super-symbolic. It is knowledge.

The same knowledge can be used by many people simultaneously to create wealth. Whether we believe the Tofflers or not, it is abundantly clear as we move to the postindustrial era that literacy, that ability to handle symbols, is going to become increasingly important and not just something that we all must have but necessary for survival. In a 1989 survey of 9,500 Canadians aged 16 to 69 years of age 71 percent of Albertans could read well enough to meet everyday demands that were made upon them, such as reading charts and driving licence materials and contracts.

Another 17 percent could handle reading tasks if they were simply laid out and put together carefully for their perusal. At that time 72 percent of our citizens could do the mathematics needed to meet everyday demands, such as catalogue shopping and airline schedules and the kind of numeracy that those tasks demand. Compared to other provinces, Alberta leads the country in almost every measure of literacy. I think Saskatchewan beat us by 1 percent in terms of reading scores, but it's a tremendous accomplishment. It's significant I think, Mr.

Speaker, to note that the survey sample was 16 to 69 years of age, and these individuals were graduates of the school system at least two years before the present government's programs were put in place. It's obvious that teachers and parents and school districts in this province were doing something right, and they managed to do it amazingly without performance measures, without key indicators, and without the kind of behaviourial engineering that seems to have captured the government and the education departments in particular.

Unfortunately, there were 4 percent of our citizens who at that time had difficulty reading any kind of printed material, and another 7 percent had very limited word recognition ability. Eight percent of our citizens at best could only recognize numbers in text, and another 20 percent could only perform the simple functions of adding and subtracting. I think those figures, as well as the province has done, indicate that there still is much work left to do.

I think it is also worth noting that this campaign has been undertaken by the community, by organized school districts, by big business, by parents, by community groups, and by a wide range of volunteers from across the country. There was no minister. There were no department officials. There were no regulations. No one had to tell them how to go about their task. No principal had to call them together to tell them how to conduct their business. They did it on their own.

In recognizing this literacy campaign, we have to go back and we have to recognize the huge past investment that Albertans have made in what is considered a strong public education system, at least to this point. It is that effort sustained over a long period of time that has put our province in the lead. The same kind of effort is going to be needed if Albertans are going to abolish illiteracy in our province completely and if Albertans are going to take their rightful place in inventing the kind of new civilization that the Tofflers envision.

I think that as this literacy campaign is launched, members of the Assembly, all of us, have an obligation to examine how our actions, how the things that we do in this Assembly, the Bills that we pass, will affect things like literacy 10, 15, and 20 years from now. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 3:20 MR. ADY: Mr. Speaker, I'd like to speak briefly in support of this Standing Order 40. I think it is a very worthy initiative that we're addressing in the House today, that of literacy week.

Y esterday afternoon I had the distinct pleasure of meeting with representatives of the Alberta Association for Adult Literacy and the Literacy Co-ordinators of Alberta. It was a very productive meeting, and it gave me an opportunity to hear from some of the frontline providers of adult literacy on a firsthand basis. For the past 10 years the Literacy Co-ordinators of Alberta have facilitated in the growth and development of volunteer tutor literacy programs across this province. These same literacy co- ordinators, Mr.

Speaker, have trained and prepared dozens and dozens of volunteer tutors, who spend thousands of hours annually on a no charge, free-time basis teaching adult literacy in this province. There are 64 regularly funded programs serving 70 communities across this province. The budget for this service under the community adult learning grant program is $1.2 million annually. I can assure members of this Assembly that this money is well spent. In 1994, 7,219 adults participated in a total of 247,134 hours in volunteer tutor literacy programs in Alberta.

Since 1986 over 1 million hours have been contributed by volunteers in this very worthwhile program. Without the expertise and cost-effective efforts of the Literacy Co-ordinators of Alberta and the Alberta Association for Adult Literacy this degree of volunteer participa- tion in adult literacy would not have been possible. I'd like to take this opportunity again to commend the hard work and often overlooked efforts of the thousands of literacy volunteers who assist Albertans to learn to read and to write and to improve their quality of life. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Redwater. MR.

N. TA YLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd love to take a minute to speak on something that's quite near and dear to me.

April 25, 1995 Alberta Hansard 1299 I'd like to first of all start out by paying respect to the private sector that has done so much to try to promote this and also, as the hon. minister said, the volunteers in the literacy area. Mr. Speaker, as I'm still connected with business, I have found it interesting over the last 40 years to watch who business is interested in hiring out of the universities. What I've noticed the last number of years is the attraction for graduates in English and graduates in Latin and Greek. They're getting job offers that engineers used to get 30 years ago and lawyers 20 years ago.

Really it boils down to plain old communication. We have become such a highly technical age with computers and everything else that we can figure out nearly any math problem, but many of our children are almost inarticulate expressing themselves or expressing a thought. Literacy means, I think, much more than what we have a tendency to think, just being able to barely read and write. Literacy in a modern era means being able to commu- nicate. It's not just sufficient to register a thought. My hon. colleague who mentioned Alvin Toffler talks about future shock.

One of the other things that comes up if you read any futurist is the speed of change, and that speed of change can only be handled by a literate individual. I guess if you were going to draw an analogy, reading "Jane is looking for her book" and moving our lips – it's going to be a long time before we accept much knowledge, although we generally may be thought to be literate because we can write something, read something. Y ou have to read it fast and understand it fast. If the futurist tells us anything, the rate of change is going to keep speeding up.

So literacy really becomes spending a lot of time absorbing how to communicate. This is why I'm a little bit concerned, Mr. Speaker. Alberta sort of pulled itself up by their bootstraps. When many of our pioneers came here, after they put the plow in the ground and maybe even before, one of the first things they wanted to do was set up a school district. That school district was often set up on a township basis. To make sure that school survived – they didn't trust the government; they didn't trust the church or anything else – they set out a

section of land. It was called the school section, a school

section in every 36 sections, the proceeds of which – it was rented out by the school board – were to keep that school going. They knew more than maybe we do today. Now when we're cutting back at universities, when we're cutting down on libraries, I think we have forgotten the message tied to literacy and learning that our pioneers sent us: you can only pull yourself up by your own bootstraps.

I think one of the messages we should take out of literacy week is to almost maybe rededicate ourselves to make places of learning for the individual, not where you sort of grab people and shove things down their necks, places where people can improve themselves. I have worked some in my own little community and my wife as a volunteer at the local library, and it's a joy to see some children coming in at four and five years and starting to shop through the shelves b ecause they're learning that there is some- thing more than what they're wa tching on TV.

Rather interest- ingly enough I find with my own grandchildren that I'm digging out old books now, and they read them. In other words, the old thought that it has to be TV and movies – and I guess that's fairly important too. As a matter of fact, I think I enjoyed The Lion King as much as my grandchildren, but the point is that they still enjoy fairly good literature, and they are moving along in that direction. When I see government that's sort of – and maybe it's not only this government. A lot of governments are forgetting what got us here in the first place, what gave us this standard of living.

We have a tendency to think that the standard of living comes from the oil wells and the trees, and that's true. The true societies that are developed and the true conquests that you make are the ones that you make in your mind. Those are the new horizons. I think, Mr. Speaker, it was Tennyson writing Ulysses that said: all knowledge is . . . Oh, I'm sorry. I'm getting in trouble. I'm at a loss here now. All knowledge is an arch wherethrough gleams that untraveled horizon that fades forever and ever when I move. Some people labour long and bring forward a mouse, but I brought forward an elephant.

I wanted just to say how important it is that we rededicate ourselves to our libraries and our learning system. It's not just enough to praise volunteers in the private sector but how impor- tant it is to make sure our libraries and traveling libraries – some years ago our university library extension department was shut down by this government, and we need that out in the rural areas. I see the hon. member for downtown Calgary shaking her head. She doesn't see the purpose of a rural library. A rural library is . . . THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary-Currie is rising on a point of order. MRS.

BURGENER: Misrepresentation. Mr. Speaker, I do have a library in my constituency. MR. N. TA YLOR: Sorry, Mr. Speaker. I thought she'd rubbed the sleep out of her eyes, but I guess it was her ears. I was talking about rural libraries, and I'm not at all surprised that she wouldn't know what a rural library was. She probably thinks it lays eggs. That's not the case at all. A traveling rural library is something that we shut down many years ago, and I'm a little disappointed in what the government did. Thanks. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for West Y ellowhead. MR. V AN BINSBERGEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to add a few words to this because this is such a tremendously important item. I'm very pleased with the people involved in this national literacy campaign. I'm particularly impressed with the fact that several businesses have put their shoulders to this particular wheel along with the artist Ben Wicks and educational authorities as well. Of course these businesspeople have discov- ered in practice the lack of reading ability, particularly, and writing ability, probably, as well amongst their applicants, and I'm now speaking about the adults.

I think we all know, as the minister of advanced education already remarked, how necessary it is that there be help for those people as well. 3:30 What I like about this particular campaign is that it was launched in the schools and that clearly the idea, the objective was that a link be forged between the schools and the parents, the families in other words.

I think this is where we as a society have really lost a lot of our ability to inspire our kids in reading and writing and public speaking, as the Member for Redwater expressed, because we haven't as parents, I think, by far enough read to our kids as they were young. Now, I'm of a generation, Mr. Speaker, where many, many years ago my parents did read to me at length, and as a result I

1300 Alberta Hansard April 25, 1995 have always had a very great fondness for the wr itten word. I must even admit that as a young lad I used to read stories about Canada, about Indians and about cowboys and about the RCMP, and ever since that time – I was about 10 years old and read late at night with a flashlight under the blankets so that my parents wouldn't catch me – I gained this fondness for western Canada and also western United States.

I think it's important that people have this, that people are more focused on this ability to learn to read and write, and I think in the schools is where we can do more as well. Having spent many years in the schools, I've seen particularly in the last one or two decades an increase in the number of students in high school who are not able to read and write. Perhaps the Minister of Education would take note of this in the sense that there are certain things that the department can do, and that is to allow teachers more leeway in handling specific ways of teaching reading.

Rather than forcing one particular method onto the teachers, give them the freedom to use other methods as well because certain methods won't work with all students. I think it's also important to realize that all changes in the school system that have come from the department and have been imposed from above have tremendous consequences. One of the consequences I can think of, the consequence of the policy of inclusion of all students, was th at there was a suffering in the ability of people to learn to read and write.

That does not mean at all that inclusion is wrong, but what it does mean is that we have to be very mindful of the consequences that such a particular new strategy has on the ability to read and write. Mr. Speaker, I'll leave it at that. I just hope that the Minister of Education will take note of my remarks, and I strongly favour this campaign. Thank you very much. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for St. Albert. MR. BRACKO: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is a real privilege to support the motion, the national literacy campaign. One of the greatest gifts we have and can give to others is the gift of literacy.

Without being able to read, one is in a prison that greatly impacts on one's life. Every aspect of one's daily routine just becomes more difficult, from grocery shopping to riding the bus. Y ou just have to visit another country and not be able to speak the language to see how much more difficult life becomes. Y ou're at the mercy of other people. I've had the privilege of traveling around the world: Asia, Africa, northern Hokkaido in Japan, where I couldn't speak the language and found certain things more difficult but an exciting experience.

Also I was in Vietnam and Cambodia during the war, and that proved much more difficult. At any time you had to be careful. A grenade could be thrown at you if they thought you were American, and not being able to speak the language made it very complex and complicated. So it gave me a slight indication of how others feel who are unable to read or write. For many new Canadians the Catholic Women's League has assisted with helping them to adjust and teach literacy, and we thank them for it.

From this beginning other groups sprang up not only to teach new Canadians but Canadians of all ages the skills of being able to read and write. In St. Albert we have a dynamic gr oup, the STAR literacy program. It has a tremendous director, Terry Regimbald, who has been nominated for volunteer of the year in St. Albert this year, and we're very proud of the work and the accomplishments of this group. We're also very proud of the many volunteers who dedicate their time and energy teaching others to read and write.

One of the biggest thrills of my year and a half here in the Leg. was when a group of students from this program came to the Leg. It was exciting because in one of the c ountries that one of the students came from nobody could get near the government or the building. If you came close to it, you could get shot just as easily. In another, women weren't allowed anywhere near government or have anything to do with government. So when this freedom came to them through this program, where they were learning to read and write, it was a thrill and an exciting time for me to be a part of their program.

Literacy opens a whole new world to our residents no matter what age they are, no matter where they are in their abilities. Not only does it open a new world, it also saves money. We know that the health care costs go down as the education of our residents goes up, and that's very important to know and some- thing that we should take into account: we look at the initial cost in comparison to the rewards and the cost efficiencies later on. As we paid tribute to the volunteers last night, they opened a library and named it after Mr. Leo Alain, a great Albertan and a great Canadian.

He was on the STAR literacy board for a number of years, and he did a tremendous job. MR. V AN BINSBERGEN: Was he Liberal? MR. BRACKO: He was Liberal also, yes. He spent his time going to Father Jan school to read to the students, to show them the value and the importance of reading. Mr. Alain did a tremendous job, and in tribute to his contribution they named a library after him. We thank the board for doing that, and we thank the volunteers. Throughout this province we thank the many volunteers that contribute their time and effort to the program. I want to conclude, Mr.

Speaker, with this statement by Sir Wilfred Grenfell, who says, "The service we render to others is really the rent we pay for our room on this earth." It is obvious that man is himself a traveler, that the purpose of this world is not to have and to hold but to give and to serve. Not to have and to hold but to give and to serve. There can be no other meaning, and our caring, giving volunteers live these words daily, and for that we thank them. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Lesser Slave Lake. MS CALAHASEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I just want to give my point of view in terms of literacy and what it means to me from a personal level as well as an educator. First of all, I'd like to congratulate the sponsors: the corporate sponsors who have been involved, the schools, Alberta Ed, advanced education, the Oilers, and especially the literacy groups and volunteers in the province who have worked very hard in the past to be able to get to this point. Oftentimes they never get recognized, but they continue to do the work that many take credit for, and I'd like to send my congratulations to those individuals who've worked so hard in the past.

I just want to quote something that they used to tell me when I was a Laubach literacy tutor. They said: literacy is a challenge we still haven't overcome. It wasn't a problem; it was a chal- lenge. I think this really states what's happening today with the collaboration that has occurred in the launching of this literacy week or at least a national literacy campaign.

April 25, 1995 Alberta Hansard 1301 Northern Alberta has certainly experienced great amounts of people illiterate in the English language as well as being illiterate in their mother tongue. Immigrants have also experienced this challenge. I believe that we have come a long way when dealing with literacy; however, we're still far behind. There are still people who are illiterate today, and I know that a great amount of those are within my constituency.

Working on this to ensure that kids do not have to be illiterate in adult life I think is a great vocation for many people who have taken on even the volunteer program. Y ears ago aboriginal children, especially in northern Alberta, were taken away by the church to educate and this for good reason, Mr. Speaker. They wanted to make sure that the kids could be literate. However, there were many unfortunate circumstances which did not allow some of those individuals to come to the point of becoming literate. 3:40 Unfortunately my mother was one of those.

As an advocate and a great supporter of the literacy programs I really feel sometimes that she had a great vision. Her vision was to make sure that her children were educated and could read so that nothing that she had experienced could happen to them, and I want to be able to say thank you to her for having the fortitude to be able to carry out some of the things that she had to carry out. She did not know how to read; however, she read to us. She would pick up a book and she would read to us. We didn't know that she was not reading. She was a great storyteller.

I believe with that kind of modeling we were able to say, yes, we can do this. It was only later in years that I realized that my mother was illiterate. It's come to mean now that I have to be able to support literacy programs, because I believe, like she did, that we can overcome anything as long as we have some ability to be able to do that. I just want to quote here a gentleman named Charles Schwab: a man – maybe we can say a woman too – can succeed at almost anything for which he has unlimited enthusiasm. Mr.

Speaker, I believe my mother had unlimited enthusiasm to ensure that her kids were able to read and able to overcome anything that would stop them from what she thought she was being stopped from because she could not read or write. Mr. Speaker, I think this is a great initiative. I want to congratulate again those individuals who have been involved in making sure this doesn't die. I also want to encourage parents to work with their kids, to read to them if they can. If you can't read, pretend to read because your children will not know the difference.

Y ou can become a great storyteller, and you can also encourage your kids to be something that I think you can be very proud of. I think this is a great time to be able to say congratula- tions to all those individuals w ho have been involved in the national literacy campaign. Thank you. THE SPEAKER: Is the Assembly ready for the question? HON. MEMBERS: Question. THE SPEAKER: All those in favour of the motion proposed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre, please say aye. HON. MEMBERS: Aye. THE SPEAKER: Opposed, please say no.

Let the record show the motion carries unanimously. head: Orders of the Day head: Motions Other than Government Motions Seniors' Benefits 508. Moved by Mrs. Hewes:

Be it resolved that the Legislative Assembly urge the government to ensure that seniors' benefits provided by the government will not be decreased for any individual after that person reaches the age of 65 years. Moved by Mrs. Burgener that Motion 508 be amended to read:

Be it resolved that the Legislative Assembly urge the government to ensure that seniors' benefits provided by the government will remain at an appropriate level for any individual after that person reaches the age of 65 years. Moved by Mr. Henry that the amendment to Motion 508 be amended by the addition of the following words: , which will be that level being in place when that individ- ual reached their 65th birthday. [Adjourned debate April 1 1: Mr. Henry] THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. MR. HENRY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I'm pleased to rise and participate in this debate one more time. Just to refresh individuals' memories, there was a motion proposed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar, and then there was an amendment to that motion that was proposed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Currie. The subamendment that I'm speaking to now . . . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Calgary-Currie. MR. HENRY: I'm sorry. Calgary-Currie. How could I do that? My sincere apologies to the member and the people of Edmonton. In jest of course. Purely in jest, Mr. Speaker. The subamendment to the amendment proposed by the hon.

Member for Calgary-Currie would add the following: after "appropriate level" adding "which will be that level being in place when that individual reached their 65th birthday." The intent of the subamendment is to ensure that when individuals in this province who have entered into a moral contract with the government turn 65 that moral contract is indeed upheld by the government of the day regardless of the political party in power or regardless of the personnel in that political party in power at the time.

One of the things that I allude d to in speaking to the motion itself and to the amendment was that seniors in my riding tell me, people who have turned 65 years old, that probably the most important quality besides health th at they need, that they desire when they turn 65 is security. They talk about security of their person, being able to walk down the street and feel safe. They talk about security of their home, needing the security to know and be comfortable that it's not going to be broken into or intruded upon and that they will have safety and security in their home. Mr.

Speaker, they also talk about financial security, the financial security that comes with having planned one's life for 40 years or more, having retired knowing there was a certain set of rules or a certain set of programs in place. When a government unilaterally and arbitrarily chooses to break that security by changing the rules that were in place when that individual turned

1302 Alberta Hansard April 25, 1995 65, I believe and I believe my constituents feel that the govern- ment threatens that security and breaks the moral contract that it entered into when that individual turned 65. This is not to say that everything that the government does should stay the way it was and th e way it is in perpetuity, Mr.

Speaker, but what it does say is that when we enter into periods of change, as we are into now with the current government and all governments in our nation, it's important for us to recognize, when implementing that change, the impact on those immediately and recognize that maybe we have to be more gradual in imple- menting that change.

When an individual is 63 years old or 64 years old and the government says that we either no longer have the finances or we no longer have the political will or the desire to continue to provide the same level of benefits to senior citizens that we have in the past, then that person who's 63 years old can plan for that. Perhaps they work beyond their 65th birthday, if they need to. When they do retire at 65, perhaps they put into place a different structure in terms of financial support. But, Mr.

Speaker, when an individual turns 65, quite often they negotiate with the rest of their family in terms of their assets. In my riding we have a high number of high-rise apartments and condominiums and rental apartments, and quite often the seniors have sold their home in the country or they've sold their home in the suburbs and they've moved into downtown, where the services are.

They calculate how much they're going to need to live on and what kinds of investments they need based on the capital assets they've disposed of, and quite often families end up ge tting a preinheritance, if I can call it that, and the individual keeps enough to live on in their declining years, in their senior years. In addition, Mr. Speaker, quite often in my experience talking with seniors in my riding, when they turn 65 and they've been employed and there's a benefit package or they take a retirement package from their employer, certain arrangements are worked out.

Sometimes those arrangements have been a continuation of some of the benefits, such as life insurance and other kinds of things that may be covered by the employer. The situation we've got now is that up until this past year seniors retired and they had no health care premiums in our province. So why would somebody in that position negotiate with their employer or negotiate with their own finances to ensure that they can cover health care premiums or have that provided by their employer?

Well, they wouldn't, because the government has said, "We have a contract with you, and we will ensure that you don't have to pay health care premiums." If we're going to decide that all of a sudden senior citizens have to pay health care premiums, what we have to do is and I use the term "grandfather" those individuals who have already turned 65. We can set up a new set of rules and say that anybody who turns 65 past January 1 of next year is going to have to start paying health care premiums. We can phase that in. But we can't wait until somebody is 74 years old and all of a sudden say: "Oh, we forgot.

Y ou're now going to have to pay $800 in health care premiums, and you're going to lose your benefit in terms of your rental assistance or your property tax rebate and other benefits, and you're going to have to pay for more of your extended health care services and more of the kinds of things you got in aids to daily living." Mr. Speaker, it's wrong to break a contract. Anybody working in the real world will tell you that when you enter into a contract, if you want to change the nature of that contract, you have to negotiate and you have to make mutually agreed upon changes.

If that is not achievable, then what you must do is enter into a new contract, which is not usually able to be backdated or able to be retroactive to the date of the first contract. 3:50 So that's all this subamendment is asking.

Let's ensure that when we enter into that moral contract with senior citizens when they turn 65 and for whatever reason, again whether it be for fiscal reasons or political expediency or whims or whatever, we want a government of the day – not just the current government but any government of the day – who chooses to change the nature of the benefit package, at least those who have already turned 65 and who have retired and set their affairs in a way that they can afford to support themselves are protected and don't have any major changes, that their security is stable, that the security is there for them.

One of the things I found when I went to the various apartment buildings and residences in my riding which have a high propor- tion of senior citizens was that it was not just the fact that they had to pay health care premiums now. It was not just the fact that they were going to have to pay for some extended health care services that had been previously available. It was not just the fact, for those in subsidized accommodation, that they were going to have to move from 25 to 30 percent of income. In fact, many said that was the way to go. It was not just the cumulative effect.

That was bad enough, but the question I kept being asked that frankly I couldn't answer was, "What's next; what are they going to do next?" they being the government in general terms: the provincial government, the municipal, the federal government. "What are they going to do to us next?" This is wrong. It's the wrong way to treat people who have earned the right to live in dignity in our province and who have worked very hard in this province. This does not tie the hands of government in terms of change. What it does is provide security.

It provides a basis by which people can retire, set their affairs in order, and say on a symbolic handshake, "Y es, I have a deal with the government." And if the population chooses to change that government or if the party in power chooses to change the leader, then that commitment will be honoured. Mr. Speaker, I urge all hon. members to put aside their partisan nature and put aside the whips that are so often on and support maintaining security for senior citizens and supporting the notion that a deal is a deal is a deal. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. THE SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Redwater. MR. N.

TA YLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Maybe I could take a minute. I think we're awfully close to time. THE SPEAKER: Unfortunately, there's the signal, hon. member, that requires the Chair to put all questions to conclude debate on the motion under consideration. Those questions could be three in number. The first is on the subamendment proposed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. All those in favour of the subamendment proposed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre, please say aye. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye. THE SPEAKER: Those opposed, please say no.

April 25, 1995 Alberta Hansard 1303 SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. THE SPEAKER: The subamendment fails. [Several members rose calling for a division. The division bell was rung at 3:54 p.m.] [Ten minutes having elapsed, the Assembly divided] [The Deputy Speaker in the Chair] For the motion: Bracko Hewes Taylor, N.

Bruseker Kirkland Van Binsbergen Carlson Leibovici White Collingwood Nicol Wickman Dalla-Longa Percy Zariwny Germain Sekulic Zwozdesky Henry Soetaert Against the motion: Ady Fritz McClellan Amery Gordon McFarland Black Haley Mirosh Brassard Havelock Paszkowski Burgener Herard Pham Calahasen Hierath Renner Clegg Hlady Severtson Coutts Jacques Stelmach Day Jonson Taylor, L.

Dinning Kowalski Thurber Doerksen Laing Trynchy Dunford Langevin West Evans Lund Woloshyn Fischer Magnus Y ankowsky Friedel Mar Totals: For – 20 Against – 44 [Motion on subamendment lost] THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: We now have under consideration the amendment to Motion 508 as proposed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Currie. [Motion on amendment carried] THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Now we have finally before us Motion 508, as amended, as proposed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. [Motion as amended carried] Criminal Use of Firearms 509. Moved by Mr. Zariwny:

Be it resolved that the Legislative Assembly urge the government to enter into negotiations with the federal government to ensure provisions in

section 85 of the Canadian Criminal Code, which provide for the imposition of additional sentences of one to 14 years for the use of a firearm while committing an indictable offence, are used as a means to deter the criminal use of firearms. THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton- Strathcona. MR. ZARIWNY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I stand to speak in support of Motion 509. I'd like to start my support with the quotation of a statement made by the Member for Lethbridge- East, whose statement served as the impetus for Motion 509.

The quotation comes from a sp eech which a reader presented in his absence at a meeting in Lethbridge. It states, and I'd like to quote: those concerned about the illegal use of guns should be supporting the increased prosecution of those involved; whenever a firearm is used in the commission of a crime, the Criminal Code must be applied to its full extent in each and every case, with no plea bargains or lesser charges accepted. End of quote. The Member for Lethbridge-East was talking about applying

section 85 of the Criminal Code to its fullest extent, that part of the Criminal Code which the Minister of Justice, as every provincial minister of justice, has the power and authority to pursue with vigour and purpose. Motion 509 asks – indeed, it pleads – that the Alberta Minister of Justice, the top lawmaker in Alberta, use the hammer of

section 85 by insisting that his Crown prosecutors not accept plea-bargaining away the commission of a crime with a weapon. Motion 509 also asks that the Minister of Justice, when he goes in May to Ottawa to plead his case on gun control, set the standard for Alberta, that he set the standard for all of the provinces, and that he set the standard for Canada by letting the federal government know that he will tell his Crown prosecutors today to give notice in this House to insist that offences related to the use of firearms and other offensive weapons not be dropped in favour of some unrelated other crime committed, which is what

section 85 is all about. 4:10 With your indulgence, Mr. Speaker, I would like to quote that

section for the record.

Section 85 of the Criminal Code states: Every one who uses a firearm (

a) while committing or attempting to commit an indictable offence, or (

b) during his flight after committing or attempting to commit an indictable offence, whether or not he causes or means to cause bodily harm to any person as a result thereof, is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment (

c) in the case of a first offence, except as provided in para- graph (d), for not more than fourteen years and not less than one year, and (

d) in the case of a second and s ubsequent offence, or in the case of a first such offence committed by a person who, prior to January 1, 1978, was convicted of an indictable offence or an attempt to commit an indictable offence, in the course of which or during his flight after the