Manitoba Hansard — 17 October 2024 (Sitting 77B, 43rd Legislature, 1st Session)

43-1-77b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session – Forty-Third Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Tom Lindsey Speaker Vol. LXXVIII No. 77B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, October 17, 2024 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Third Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello, Hon. Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma, Hon. Union Station NDP BALCAEN, Wayne Brandon West PC BEREZA, Jeff Portage la Prairie PC BLASHKO, Tyler Lagimodière NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian, Hon. Keewatinook NDP BYRAM, Jodie Agassiz PC CABLE, Renée, Hon. Southdale NDP CHEN, Jennifer Fort Richmond NDP COMPTON, Carla Tuxedo NDP COOK, Kathleen Roblin PC CROSS, Billie Seine River NDP DELA CRUZ, Jelynn Radisson NDP DEVGAN, JD McPhillips NDP EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni, Hon. St.

Johns NDP GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC HIEBERT, Carrie Morden-Winkler PC JACKSON, Grant Spruce Woods PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake-Gimli PC KENNEDY, Nellie Assiniboia NDP KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP KING, Trevor Lakeside PC KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Dauphin NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom, Hon. Flin Flon NDP LOISELLE, Robert St. Boniface NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya, Hon. Notre Dame NDP MOROZ, Mike River Heights NDP MOSES, Jamie, Hon. St.

Vital NDP MOYES, Mike Riel NDP NARTH, Konrad La Vérendrye PC NAYLOR, Lisa, Hon. Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC OXENHAM, Logan Kirkfield Park NDP PANKRATZ, David Waverley NDP PERCHOTTE, Richard Selkirk PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP SALA, Adrien, Hon. St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHMIDT, Tracy, Hon. Rossmere NDP SCHOTT, Rachelle Kildonan-River East NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SIMARD, Glen, Hon. Brandon East NDP SMITH, Bernadette, Hon. Point Douglas NDP STONE, Lauren Midland PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry Ind.

WHARTON, Jeff Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt, Hon. Concordia NDP WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC

2973 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, October 17, 2024 The House met at 1:30 p.m. The Speaker: Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS House Business MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Honourable Speaker, is there leave for the following: On November 7, 2024, at the top of orders of the day, government business, the House shall consider con- current and third reading of Bill 209, The Provincial Court Amendment Act (Expanded Training for Judges and Judicial Justices of the Peace), with the question to be put by 4 p.m. if it has not already been dealt with.

The Speaker: Is there leave for the following on November 7, 2024, at the top of orders of the day, gov- ernment busi ness, the House shall consider con- currence and third reading of Bill 209, The Provincial Court Amendment Act (Expanded Training for Judges and Judicial Justices of the Peace), with the question to be put by 4 p.m. if it has not already been dealt with. Is there leave? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Some Honourable Members: No. The Speaker: Leave has been denied. Mrs. Kathleen Cook (Roblin): On House business, Honourable Speaker. The Speaker: The honourable member for Roblin on House business.

Mrs. Cook: I seek leave to allow the Op position House Leader to call Bill 221, The Earlier Screening for Breast Cancer Act, to a committee of this House before the end of the First Session of the 43rd Legislature, no later than October 30. The Speaker: Is there leave to allow the Op position House Leader to call Bill 221, The Earlier Screening for Breast Cancer Act, to a committee of this House before the end of the First Session of the 43rd Legislature, no later than October 30? Is there leave? Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Some Honourable Members: No.

The Speaker: Leave has been denied. * * * The Speaker: Routine proceedings. Introduction of bills? Committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Government House Leader): In accordance with rule 78(9), I am tabling a revised sequence for the consid eration of the de partmental Estimates for today only. The Speaker: Ministerial statements? MEMBERS' STATEMENTS University of Winnipeg Class of 2024 Hon.

Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): Since its founding in 1967, the Uni versity of Winnipeg has fostered a diverse, multicultural and academic community committed to excellence in education. Convocation is a momentous occasion that cele - brates the journey of every graduate. As the University of Winnipeg marks its 125th convocation anniversary this week, I am thrilled to con gratulate the class of 2024. I'd like to express my sincere gratitude to all faculty and staff for their countless hours spent teach- ing and mentoring students.

Despite challenging cir - cumstances including a pandemic, their dedication to our students equips them for the world ahead. The University of Winnipeg's graduates come from literally all over the world. Currently, 375 students will be graduating from the university this Friday, and those graduates represent 22 different urban and rural commu- nities, while the remaining come from 21 different countries. It is our responsibility to ensure that these faculty and their guests, and these students and their guests, feel welcome and appreciated. An honorary doctor of letters will be awarded to Dr.

Stephen Borys, director and CEO of the Winnipeg Art Gallery. The distinguished Alumni Award will be presented to Rosa Walker, a member of Peguis First Nation and a busi ness leader who has served Indigenous com munities for over 40 years.

2974 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 17, 2024 Kate Binesigichidaakwe McDonald will be honoured as a valedictorian for the milestone of the 125th convoca- tion ceremony. With approximately 9,000 undergraduate and grad- uate students per year, the U of W provides an excep- tional edu cation with more access to faculty, real - world learning and research op portunities that are very unique. Please join me in welcoming and congratulating some of the graduates and the faculty and staff who have joined us here today, and I'd ask that their names be entered into the permanent record of Hansard.

Congratulations and welcome. Abrar Abdelmahmoud, Chhavi Dhir, Jino Distasio, Danielle Dunba, Chantal Fiola, Tomiris Kaliyeva, Shauna Labman, Hailey Nicole Langford, Daniel Leonard, Kate Binesigichidaakwe McDonald, Nisha Rocamora, Anuraag Shrivastav Introduction of Guests The Speaker: Before proceeding to the next member's statement, there's some guests in the gallery that are leaving shortly, so I 'd like to introduce them before they leave.

We have seated in the public gallery from Immanuel Christian and Dufferin Christian Schools 43 grade 4 students under the direction of Maryne Vanderhoomlan [phonetic] and Sandra Vanderwoude. Sorry about that. The group is located in the constituency of the hon- ourable members for Radisson (MLA Dela Cruz) and Midland (Mrs. Stone). Charleswood Active Living Centre and Headingley Seniors' Services Mrs.

Kathleen Cook (Roblin): Honourable Speaker, with October being seniors month, it is a great pleasure to rise in the House today to recognize two fantastic organizations located in the Roblin constituency: the Charleswood Active Living Centre and Headingley Seniors' Services. Following the dedicated efforts of many commu- nity members, the Charleswood Senior Centre was established in 2000 when it officially opened one room in Royal School. Over the last two decades, they have grown by leaps and bounds and they no longer occupy a little room in Royal School.

Their name has evolved too to become the Charleswood Active Living Centre, and believe me, this is a very active group so the name suits them well. The centre is a great place to meet new friends, pur- sue your interests, try new activities and stay physically active. In just a few short months, the Charleswood Active Living Centre will not only be celebrating their 25th anniversary, but will see a move into a new building which will include a fitness room, arts and crafts space, multipurpose room, kitchen facilities and a large outdoor patio.

Headingley Seniors' Services was incorporated in February of 1996, close to 29 years ago. Their man- date has evolved over the years, and their goal today is to encourage older adults to maintain inde pendent living and improve their quality of life by provi ding education, recreation, health and social opportunities. They have a plethora of learning opportunities, social events, fitness and fun as well as weekly lunch and learns. This coming Friday and Saturday, they' ll host the Headingley Holiday Market which features over 25 crafters and artists.

This event is not only a great chance to get a head start on your Christmas shopping, it's also their biggest fundraiser, helping to support the services and programs they provide to the older adults of Headingley. I'd like to ask all members to join me in recog - nizing board members of the Charleswood Active Living Centre: Sherry Mooney, Daniel Graham, Mary McCormick, Janice Hamilton, Diana Simpson and Maxine Bryan, as well as the resource co -ordinators of the Headingley Seniors' Services, Margo Price and Kristie Todd, who join us in the gallery today.

On behalf of all the residents of Charleswood and Headingley, thank you for all that you do for seniors in the beautiful constituency of Roblin. McLeod Adult Learning Centre Hon. Tracy Schmidt (Minister of Environment and Climate Change): Today, I would like to congratulate a pillar in the Rossmere community: the McLeod edu- cation centre on their 25th year anniversary. McLeod education centre is a space that allows adults to either gain a high school diploma or take courses that are required for further edu cation.

They offer courses such as math, sciences and English, as well as digital photography, law and much more. I want to give a warm welcome to Jenn Harris, who is here today and is the director of McLeod education centre, joins us today in the gallery. Over the 25 years they have been operating, more than 1,600 adults have earned their high school diploma through the centre's

October 17, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2975 program and thousands more have improved their credits or taken classes necessary for continuing education. The McLeod education centre is an important staple in our community because it proves that it is never too late to upgrade your education level. The centre en- sures that everyone has the oppor tunity to invest in themselves and their futures. The centre is open not just to Rossmere com mu- nity members but to everyone who is willing to apply and learn at the centre.

What is great about the McLeod education centre is that there are no course fees for students working towards completing a high school 'diplona'–diploma, pardon me. The Adult Learning and Literacy branch of Manitoba Education is what funds the program which helps break down financial barriers that many adult learners face. If you have graduated with a high school diploma, you can also take up to four extra credit courses at no cost.

On top of this, they also have special language exams and recog nition of prior learning program, helping students from all walks of life to achieve their learning goals. * (13:40) The centre's key values are respect, connection, honesty and growth. Their value to create meaningful experiences and possi bilities for their students amplifies the importance of the centre in the Rossmere community. They are dedicated to creating a safe, caring en - vironment for everyone that comes through their building. This is what we want to see in any com mu- nity organization or school.

I ask my colleagues to join me in congratulating Jenn Harris and the McLeod education centre on their 25 years of success in encouraging folks that it is never too late to go back to school. DASCHWorks Mr. Obby Khan (Fort Whyte): Honourable Speaker, October is Disability Employment Awareness Month. I wanted to share a truly inspiring experience I had last week Friday, Take Your MLA to Work Day. This day was created to 'waise' awareness about the benefits of hiring Manitobans with disabilities and to illustrate that employment and career possibilities are out there for everyone.

I had the privilege of visiting the workplace of Jeff Lamoureux, who joins us here today in the gallery. Jeff has been employed at Mercedes-Benz on McGillivray for the last two years. I was honoured to spend time with Jeff and his co-workers, where he showcased some of his skills. The day ended with a friendly car wash com- petition where Jeff dominated me in washing the cars.

Jeff's journey is a testament to the in credible op- portunities provided by DASCH, a remarkable organi- zation committed to empower ing individuals with disabilities, located right on the border of my riding of Fort Whyte and the member from Fort Garry. One of their key initiatives is DASCHWorks, which is dedicated to helping graduates find meaning- ful employment. Currently, 11 individuals are employed. An additional 32 individuals, students, are actively engaged in the program, preparing for a future em - ployment.

DASCH has cultivated impressive partner ships with 18 companies, including Mercedes-Benz, Allmar limited, Leila Pharmacy, Mid-Town Ford to just name a few. These part nerships not only create job oppor - tunities but also foster a culture of inclusion a nd diversity in the workplace. If you have a busi ness or an opportunity, please reach out to DASCH today. This summer, DASCH celebrated its 50th anniver- sary, a remarkable milestone, with approximately 650 em- ployees across 58 homes and multiple day- program facilities. Jeff and a few of the in credible employees from DASCH are here today.

I 'd like to recognize Karen Fonseth, Nadeen Haverstock, Jordan Crouch, Dorothy Ross, Rich Kowalchuk, Kim Lavilla and Lotha Lyvenko [phonetic]. Honourable Speaker, I ask that all my colleagues rise today and recognize the great work of Jeff and all of those at DASCH. The Rolling Barrage MLA David Pankratz (Waverley): Today, on behalf of my colleague from Kirkfield Park, I 'd like to honour The Rolling Barrage.

The Rolling Barrage is a group of courageous individuals who ride their motorcycles from coast to coast every year to raise awareness for veterans, active-duty military and front -line first respon ders who suffer from and are survivors of PTSD as well as other mental health injuries. Embarking on their first ride in 2017, The Rolling Barrage aims to break down stigma surrounding PTSD while fundraising for programs and organi - zations that support veterans, active-duty military and first responders.

2976 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 17, 2024 The event highlights that not all wounds are visible, creating a safe, open and welcoming space for all. This is why these folks and the work that they do are so important. The Rolling Barrage has seen tremendous growth in the motorcycle ride 's participation in recent years, with an average of 400 to 500 parti cipants. In 2023, there were over 40 full -pull riders, which means that they successfully completed the entire coast- to-coast ride.

I had the oppor tunity to sit with them a few months ago back at ANAVETS 283 in Kirkfield Park, and I was struck by how organized and uplifting they are. They had such a positive impact on supporting veterans, active-duty military and first respon ders as well as combatting mental health stigma. And I am looking forward to their annual ride next summer in 2025. Please join me in celebrating and thanking Mark, Leona and Mike from The Rolling Barrage, who are here in the gallery with us today, for their remarkable and fearless mental health advocacy work.

Introduction of Guests The Speaker: Before moving on to question period, I have some guests in the gallery I'd like to introduce. Very first guest is none other than our Clerk Rick Yarish's daughter, Emma Carey, who is joining us with DASCH today. And I would like to draw attention of all honour- able members to the public gallery where we have with us from DASCH: Karen Fonseth, Dorothy Ross, Jordan Crouch, Nadeen Haverstock, Richard Kowalachuk [phonetic], Dwight Woods, Jeff Lamoureux, Kim Lavalla [phonetic] and Olha Lyvenko [phonetic], who are guests of the honour able member for Fort Whyte (Mr. Khan).

Please join me in welcoming them all to the Chamber today. Further, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery, where we have with us today from Headingley Seniors' Services and the Charleswood Active Living Centre: Margo Price, Kristie Todd, Sherry Mooney, Daniel Graham, Mary McCormick, Janice Hamilton, Diana Simpson, Maxine Bryan, who are guests of the honour able member for Roblin (Mrs. Cook). On behalf of all honour able members, we wel - come you here today. ORAL QUESTIONS Premier's Wikipedia Page Referenced in Question Period Mr.

Wayne Ewasko (Leader of the Official Opposition): Honourable Speaker, yesterday during question period, the Premier (Mr. Kinew) himself brought up Wikipedia. And then, just in the rebuttal to what he put on the record in Wikipedia, I started talking about the fact that the Premier himself will actually have to add onto his Wikipedia page, he's the first-ever Premier that is going to be charged –or that was charged, with intimate partner violence. And I don't think that the record of this Premier, he should be throwing any stones at any members on this side of the House, Honourable Speaker.

Honourable Speaker, yet again, I 'm hearing the NDP backbench Broadway bullies are standing up and they are bullying people across way and heckling. So obviously yesterday they knew about his Wikipedia page. I didn't know about it. He brought it up. Honourable Speaker, I'll get to my first question in a few seconds. Thanks, Honourable Speaker. Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Deputy Premier): Honour- able Speaker, last year, last fall, Manitobans sent a clear message to members on that side of the House, including the Leader of the Opposi tion, that hateful, divisive rhetoric no–had no place in Manitoba.

And not only did they send that message by the way they voted, they have shown loudly and clearly that they stand behind a govern ment and a Premier that puts Manitobans first –the most popular Premier in Canada, I might add. Honourable Speaker, on this side of the House, we are focused on Manitobans , making their health care stronger, making sure that life is more affordable and their schools have the supports and resources that they need. The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a– Lake St. Martin Outlet Channel Project Update Mr.

Wayne Ewasko (Leader of the Official Opposition): Honourable Speaker, twice this week I asked the Premier (Mr. Kinew), after a year of cutting

October 17, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2977 projects and priorities, what would he cut next? The Premier didn't answer–not in QP, not in Estimates. So I ask the Premier today: Can he update the House on the Lake St. Martin outlet channels project? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Deputy Premier): Honour- able Speaker, for the past year, our gov ernment has been focused on Manitobans, on a message of one Manitoba led by a Premier who has shown, day in and day out, that putting Manitobans first and committing to working together and bringing people together is what gets things done.

We've made advancements in health care: 873 net- new health-care workers. We've made life more afford- able by cutting the gas tax. And for the first time in Manitoba's history, all kids get to go to school and know that they can focus on education and not worry about being hungry. On this side of the House, led by our great Premier, we're making things better across this province for all Manitobans. The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary question. * (13:50) Mr.

Ewasko: Once again, Honourable Speaker, I didn't hear an answer from this Premier on such an im por- tant, important topic. The Lake St.

Martin outlet channels project, not long ago in this very Chamber, the Premier–the now-Premier himself as opposition leader said, and I quote, it is a very important project for people across Manitoba, for many people across Manitoba, folks who live up- stream, people who live in the Interlake, folks who are impacted, communities who are all along both sides of Lake Manitoba, downstream on the other side of the Fairford Dam, you have First Nations communities in the area, you have ranchers and other property owners, many of whom are raising the alarm.

Does the Premier have an update on his cut to what he called a very im portant project for all Manitobans today? MLA Asagwara: Honourable Speaker, I do think that the Leader of the Op position has done Manitobans a great service today in continuing to show them why they made the decision a year ago to elect this NDP government to this side of the House to represent them and work on their behalf. Our government is doing what the previous gov- ernment failed to do: consult with communities.

While members on that side of the House spend time disrespecting First Nations commu nities, refusing to engage, on this side of the House our ministers are doing an excellent job being in community, engaging in conversation and consultation and doing t he work that for seven and a half years wasn't done under Brian Pallister or the failed Stefanson government. We're focused on bringing Manitobans together and getting things done on their behalf. The Speaker: The honourable deputy House leader on a new question–the honourable official House leader– the Leader of the Opposition. I'm sorry.

Project Funding Concerns Mr. Ewasko: Is it my turn? Is my camera–is my mic on? It is on. Great. Honourable Speaker, once again, crickets from this Premier. The Premier has been exposed yet again, doesn 't seem to know what his ministers are doing on that side of the Chamber. His minister, even though it 's– accordingly to the Premier, the former leader of the opposition–very important project by his own admission, now that he's Premier he gets personally involved by cutting the project. He doesn't care about the sunk cost from two levels of government. He doesn't care about the years and years of consultation.

The Premier doesn't care about Manitobans who he said needed the project when he was in opposition. They said anything to get elected and now, they'll say anything to keep the power , but they will never, ever put Manitobans first. Honourable Speaker, will the Premier stand in his place, apologize to Manitobans who he has misled when he personally advocated for the channel's project? The Speaker: The member's time has expired. MLA Asagwara: Honourable Speaker, you know, honestly there's not a whole lot that I need to say on this. The PCs' failed record speaks for itself.

They spent seven and a half years refusing to con- sult, refusing to engage, and it seemed like they were only committed to damaging and destroying relation- ships across this province. They damaged relationships with communities in health care, in affordability, in edu cation; they just, wherever they went, they created damage, damage and more damage.

2978 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 17, 2024 On this side of the House, we are focused on not only repairing those relationships, but building them up to a place where we continue to make our province better for all Manitobans. So we'll take no lessons from that Leader of the Op position or a single member on that side of the House. Mr. Ewasko: Honourable Speaker, the people of the Interlake have seen enough flooding: 2011, 2014 and many other years , reaching back all the back to the 1970s. When housing was wiped out, infrastructure was destroyed, some Manitobans lost everything and remain displaced.

The Premier (Mr. Kinew) has a bad habit of making everything political, even when we discuss very important concerns and topics. And from opposi- tion, the Premier pretty much said he 's be personally involved in getting it done, if elected. So now that he's–that this is absolutely false and the project's been cut by this Premier and his NDP minister, I'll be clear for Manitobans: the NDP Premier is personally responsi ble for the lack of progress on flood mitigation in the Interlake. The NDP Premier is personally responsible for any and all future flooding, destruction and displacement.

Honourable Speaker, given that he was involved in making the cut, will he stand up and apologize to Manitobans for misleading them, not– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Hon. Lisa Naylor (Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure): This is rich–[interjection] The Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. I would ask members of the opposi tion bench to curtail their comments. MLA Naylor: It's very rich coming from the members opposite who , in seven and a half years , made no progress on the channels project, as it was outlined.

In fact, they did so much damage to the possibility of that project by ignoring First Nations that were involved, by refusing to meet with them. Every Nation I've met with has told me about the closed doors and their inability to weigh in on the impact of –as of the proposed channel project in their community. I am so proud of the work that our department and our government is doing on building those relationships and working in partnership with First Nations on flood mitigation. Early Screening for Breast Cancer Act Request to Call Bill 221 to Standing Committee Mrs.

Kathleen Cook (Roblin): After months of ad - vocacy and debate, the NDP have now twice denied leave to take Bill 221 to com mittee despite claiming to support lowering the breast cancer screening age. Since they've already announced that they're follow- ing the timeline outlined in our bill, why are they so afraid to legislate their commitment and bring the bill to committee, and why are they unwilling to be fully transparent on their progress with Manitoba women? Hon.

Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): To be clear, we are following the progress that has been identified by experts in this province, by women across this province and those who need the care, who have been meeting with our government from very early on in our administration to move this in a better direction. These are the very same people who have sat in my office and shared with me how devastated they were when the previous Heather Stefanson adminis - tration closed the mature women 's health centre.

These are the same people who have sat in my office and shared with me the damage done to the health-care system specifically around women's health by the pre - vious PC government. We are taking steps to not only strengthen breast heath care in this province but all health care for women across Manitoba. The Speaker: Order, please. [interjection] The member for Portage la Prairie (MLA Bereza) will come to order. Member for Riel–Additional Caucus Duties Remuneration Concerns Mr.

Greg Nesbitt (Riding Mountain): Honourable Speaker, apparently it is slim pickings across the way for the Premier to hand out plums to his favourite backbench MLAs. The Premier has so little faith in his backbench MLAs, that he has been forced to place all the addi - tional legislative responsibilities to one lone MLA, the MLA for Riel. So on top of his $106,000 salary, he receives $7,500–[interjection] The Speaker: Order. Mr. Nesbitt: –as caucus chair, $5,200 as LA to Environment and Climate Change and now another

October 17, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2979 $5,200 as legislative assistant to Education and Early Childhood Learning. Is the Premier (Mr. Kinew) that smitten with the MLA for Riel or that horrified– The Speaker: The member's time has expired. Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Deputy Premier): Honour- able Speaker, on this side of the House, we understand that all our members have capacity, have talent and have commitment to Manitobans. I want to thank the member opposite for high- lighting our great member who represents Riel and the great work that he's doing.

I'll remind that member that that is exactly what happens when folks go out and serve their com mu- nities–they actually flip seats, and they end up in an NDP government. I want to remind that member that we saw the same thing happen not that long ago in Tuxedo, and we got a new member on this side of the House. The Speaker: Member's time has expired. * (14:00) Provincial Deficit Amount Accuracy Inquiry Mr. Richard Perchotte (Selkirk): Unfortunately for the Minister of Finance, Manitobans see through him, as the Brandon Sun has written, quote: Don't swallow the spin.

It's obvious that the $1.97-billion deficit is an arbitrary figure inflated by our NDP govern ment to make them look good and the Tories look bad. End quote. I table for the document, Sala spins a distorted financial statement, which begs the question: Why is this minister in tentionally misattributing figures for partisan purposes? The Speaker: I–[interjection] Order, please. I'd just remind members not to use member 's names, but to use their ministerial title or their constit- uency name. Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister of Finance): Look, Manitobans know they can't trust the PCs.

They saw that over the last seven and a half years. And on July 28, when they presented a fiscal update to Manitobans before the last election, they provided a very distorted perspective on our financial situation. They hid the fact that they were going to be way off in their hydro budget. They hid the fact that they weren't going to hit their tax revenue budget. They hid the fact that they had hundreds of millions of dollars of unplanned expenditures, all in a desperate bid to try to stay elected. That's their record. Our record is focused on trans- parency, accountability.

We're committed to delivering on our balanced budget commitment while we ensure we deliver on better affordability, better health care and education. That's why Manitobans sent us there. They know they can' t trust these guys to run a two-house paper route. The Speaker: The honourable member for La Vérendrye. [interjection] Order. Drainage of St. Malo Lake Notice to Residents Mr. Konrad Narth (La Vérendrye): Last night, the NDP started to drain the St. Malo Lake; the first time this has occurred in decades, yet they didn' t start to inform the property owners and residents until this morning. I table that letter.

Some residents who were lucky enough to see the letter this morning were advised to remove their docks and boats as soon as possible, while at the same time, saying access to boating will be limited for safety reasons. When residents asked for drainage for sedi - ment control, it was out of the question. So why is it that the Infrastructure Minister is now blindsiding them with no notice and no consultation? Hon.

Lisa Naylor (Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure): I really want to take a moment to thank my critic, because it 's the first time this entire fall session that he 's shown any remote interest in infrastructure here in this Chamber. So I 'm really grateful for having a question. And I want to assure the member opposite and all Manitobans that our de partment seeks to com muni- cate directly with folks affected by decisions made by our department, and we will continue to do so.

Employment and Income Assistance Request for Basic Benefit Program MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Today, Make Poverty History launched their campaign for a livable basic benefit. According to recent census data, more than 100,000 Manitobans are living below the poverty line

2980 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 17, 2024 and almost one in five are ex periencing food insecurity. Does this government support the transformation of the EIA system in to a livable basic benefit? Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Minister of Families): I was really pleased just a mere hour and a half ago to bring greetings and meet with folks just in the Rotunda here with Make Poverty History on this really important day and that–the launch of their campaign. I shared at that lunch hour that our govern ment takes eradicating poverty incredibly serious.

And right now, we're in the process of the development of a new poverty reduction strategy. And so our team has been working on that. And we are, in every part of the province right now, doing consultation and engagement. And we're hearing from folks with lived experiences, with those stakeholders that are on the front lines and with those people that are truly the experts on how we can work together– The Speaker: The member's time has expired. Individual Needs Allowance MLA Lamoureux: The current single individual 's basic needs allowance from EIA is only $274 a month.

This number must cover all of their basic needs. This includes groceries, clothing, non-prescribed medications, toiletries, laundry, transportation, phone services and so forth. Does this government feel that $9 a day is an ade- quate amount of money to cover the cost of basic needs for Manitobans? MLA Fontaine: One of the first things that we did when assuming government was we instituted a universally accessible nutrition program for schools in Manitoba, so that we're ensuring that children are–have access to food and nutrition that they need, and that they can better concentrate on education.

The other thing that we did that we just announced, our Health Minister announced, is a free birth control program, which is going to be transformative in the lives of Manitobans. The other thing that we did, that I was really proud to stand and introduce, was we doubled the prenatal benefit. All of these programs that we instituted and that we 've enhanced go towards ensuring that Manitobans have– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary question.

Manitoba Housing Units Federal Funds for Repairs MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Make Poverty History also shares that one in 10 Manitobans are in need of housing. Now there are approximately 2,000 Manitoba Housing units that are currently vacant, in need of repair and under-maintained. Will this government commit to using the federal funds they received to repair these units so Manitobans will have their housing needs met by this winter? The Speaker: The–[interjection] Order. Hon.

Bernadette Smith (Minister of Housing, Addictions and Homelessness): We both want to get up, because we want to–both want to speak about this, because there's so much to say about housing. Our government is doing such a great job. Unlike members opposite who cut, slash, sold off, we are not taking that approach. We are investing, we are building, we are working with front-line services. We are actually– we've committed to 350 more social housing units. We are maintaining more than 3,000 units.

We 've in fact housed more than 1,200 folks in this year alone, since November–725 of those are actually in fact in our own Manitoba Housing units. The former government was boarding up those units; we are not– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Health-Care Services for South Winnipeg Victoria Hospital ER and Anne Oake Recovery Centre MLA David Pankratz (Waverley): The Heather Stefanson PCs systematically dismantled our pro - vince's heath-care system, and this was felt all over Manitoba. One area that was deeply affected, and I know this first -hand, was south Winnipeg.

Cuts to services and staff, closures, hour reductions; they all had significant negative impacts on south Winnipeg. But our government has turned that ship around. Can the minister please share with the Chamber our very exciting plan to bring health care back to the families of south Winnipeg?

October 17, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2981 Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): I thank my great colleague from Waverley for that important question. After years of cuts by the PCs to services in south Winnipeg, our government is bringing them back. We're building the Victoria ER, increasing access to emergency services in the south. We're reopening the Mature Women's Health Centre, a key component to improving health care for women across this province.

And we 're working with the Bruce and Anne Oake foundation to build the Anne Oake recovery centre, which will help women and their families who are struggling with addiction. All of these projects are located in south Winnipeg. They provide fulsome and interconnected health services. We are fixing health care in south Winnipeg, and we 're fixing health care right across Manitoba. Safe Consumption Site Concerns for Swan River Invitation for Minister to Meet with Mayor Mr.

Wayne Balcaen (Brandon West): The Minister of Housing, Addictions and Homelessness has yet to answer Swan River Mayor Lance Jacobson on the open invitation. And to quote him again, quote, I would invite any politician pushing harm reduction as a solution to come and spend the day in Swan River, and maybe even the night, so that they can see it for themselves. End quote. * (14:10) Does this minister intend on taking him up on this offer, or is the lived exper ience of municipal leaders not something that she is interested in? Hon.

Bernadette Smith (Minister of Housing, Addictions and Homelessness): I don't know if that member has been in contact with Mayor Jacobson in Swan Valley, but we've been working closely and col- laboratively with them; we actually have a plan and we've been working on a solution. Unlike members opposite, we don't work in divisive- ness; we work col laboratively, and we are working with front-line organizations, and we 're not going to take their approach where it was us and them. We are working on solutions together, and that's what Manitobans sent us here to do.

And we are working for Manitobans, with Manitobans, along with municipalities , some - thing members opposite never did. We are taking a harm reduction approach and that includes working to support Manitobans. So– The Speaker: The member's time has expired. Relocation of Asylum Seekers Inquiry into Number Moved to Manitoba Mr. Josh Guenter (Borderland): It's been a month since Manitobans learned that as many as 8,500 asylum seekers may soon be relocated to Manitoba from Ontario and Quebec. The Premier (Mr.

Kinew) has failed to be transparent and provide Manitobans with details of his agreement with the Trudeau government. Can he tell this House today how many migrants have been moved to Manitoba today? Hon. Malaya Marcelino (Minister of Labour and Immigration): Honourable Speaker, the members opposite frankly don't know what they're talking about. But that's not really a surprise. Yes, asylum seekers have been coming to Manitoba, but there is no current plan regarding moving any asylum claimants here for voluntary relocation. There is no plan to do this at this time. Talks are ongoing.

There is a working group federally for other provinces, including ours, to come up with a coherent plan across Canada. At this point, members opposite–this is just pure conjecture, at this point in what they' re talking about and this is not helping the conversation about respon- sible immigration in this– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Edgeland Manitoba Housing Complex New Play Structure Announcement MLA Carla Compton (Tuxedo): Earlier this month, Tuxedo got some great news.

The Premier, Minister of Housing, Addictions and Homelessness and I got together with Tuxedo families and especially those amazing young people who advocated for the needs in their community to announce a new play structure is going to be built. Can the Minister of Housing, Addictions and Homelessness please share how this fantastic project will help bring families in Tuxedo together and get kids active? Hon. Bernadette Smith (Minister of Housing, Addictions and Homelessness): I want to thank my colleague for that question.

I was proud to announce that our govern ment is building a brand new play structure at the Edgeland Manitoba Housing complex. It's an exciting project that members opposite should be excited about as well, that we'll be bringing Tuxedo

2982 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 17, 2024 families together, to play, relax and connect in their own backyard and they're heckling this. This play structure will be an accessible space that is open to all, and it 'll incorporate Indigenous elements that reflect Manitoba's rich history. We look forward to consulting with residents to see what they 're–what they envision for this project, especially with the kids who will play on it next summer. For years, Heather Stefanson and members opposite treated Manitoba Housing as an afterthought. They cut– The Speaker: The member's time has expired.

Surgical Capacity Expansion Contract Renewals with Providers Mrs. Kathleen Cook (Roblin): On Tuesday during Estimates, the Minister of Health once again refused to provide details about contracts with public and private providers to expand surgical capacity in Manitoba. Back in April, they promised transparency on which contracts were renewed, but no specific s have been shared to date. The surgical and diag nostic wait- time tracker, which I'll table, reveals a sig nificant drop in cataract surgeries at Western Surgery Centre, a key contract expansion under the DSRTF.

Under the previous PC government, over 2,000 cataract surgeries were per - formed at Western in the first six months of 2023, but during the same period in 2024, only 945 were completed. Will the NDP finally be transparent about the con- tracts they have cancelled and how their cuts to sur - gical capacity– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): I want to thank the folks at Western for being great partners with our government in making sure that we take an approach to health care that allows for Manitobans to get access in their own province.

The member opposite has a lot to answer for to Manitobans who were forced to leave the country to get essential basic access to health care for years. Member opposite ran under a PC banner that was committed to privatizing health care, closing emergency rooms, cutting the front lines, firing health-care workers and sending Manitobans out of the country for basic health care. On this side of the House, we 're investing in Manitoba to make health care stronger for all Manitobans. Overcrowding at St.

Adolphe School Request for Plan to Address MLA Bob Lagassé (Dawson Trail): Enrolment is surging in the Seine River School Division, and hallway education is rampant across Manitoba. The St. Adolphe School is bursting at the seams. I table a quote from the superintendent who warns it won't be long until we have an–other schools that are full as well. Will the minister finally be transparent about the steps being taken to tackle overcrowding in Manitoba schools, or is–the reality is there is no plan? Hon.

Tracy Schmidt (Acting Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): I thank the mem- ber opposite for the question. Simply put, we are building schools. We do have a plan. Very proud of our capital five -year plan on schools, unlike the previous govern ment whose plan was written on the back of a napkin. They made an- nouncements that they were –they knew they could never complete on. And in fact the member from Spruce Woods agrees and has admitted, and I 'm going to quote from this morning's Winnipeg Free Press: Money did not need to be set aside last year because the school contract was not set.

So they get up in this House and they pretended that they had a plan. They're disingenuous. Manitobans know this. Manitobans voted for change. Manitobans voted for a govern ment that understands education and is going to build real schools– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Green Team Funding Commitment Inquiry for 2025 Ms. Jodie Byram (Agassiz): Earlier this year – [interjection] The Speaker: Order, please. The member for Spruce Woods (Mr. Jackson) will come to order, because I've noticed today in particular he seems to be very voracious in his heckling. So that needs to stop. Ms.

Byram: Earlier this year, the minister of munici- pal relations was forced to realize the massive mistake that his govern ment made in cutting Green Team

October 17, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2983 funding. Manitobans had to pack this gallery and demand to be heard by this government. Will the minister commit to reinstating The Green Team funding fully for next year? Hon. Ian Bushie (Minister of Municipal and Northern Relations): We continue to address–municipalities all across the province: $42 million on our new Manitoba GROW program; 12 and a half million for From The Ground Up; 2 per cent for the funding model.

What's not in there, Honourable Speaker, is $3,800 for intimacy coach that they, time and time again–why don't they go and ask for that intimacy coach to refund that money rather than asking the people of Manitoba to refund that campaign expense? Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. The Speaker: Order. Pause of Manitoba Housing Benefit Minister's Notification to Premier Mr. Grant Jackson (Spruce Woods): Speaker, as much as I'd love to respond–[interjection] The Speaker: Order. Mr.

Jackson: –to the Minister for Edu cation's false- hoods, my question is to Minister of Addictions, Housing and Homelessness, who, on August 2, personally stopped processing requests for the Canada-Manitoba Housing Benefit, threatening almost 400 Manitobans with loss of shelter. The stop wasn't communicated to applicants and organizations until August 30, and she didn't even bother to tell her Premier (Mr. Kinew), who admitted that he found out on the radio. My question is simple: Was the minister's unwilling- ness to tell her boss because she thought she could hide it from him or because she feared his reaction?

The Speaker: Order, please. I would caution members that using terms such as falsehoods has been raised as an issue in this House before and caution use the –to require members quit using such terms. So I would remind members again to watch the language they're using in this Chamber. * (14:20) Hon. Bernadette Smith (Minister of Housing, Addictions and Homelessness): Let's talk about the Tory record or the PC record on housing. They cut, they slashed, they stole. That 's some- thing our government isn't going to do. We committed to investing $116 million in housing.

We are building, we are maintaining, we are actually working with non-profits, something the former PC Stefanson gov- ernment never did. They in fact were okay with people living in bus shelters. They were okay with selling off housing; over–in one transaction, over 350 units. And, in fact, made people homeless. People shared with me, they had to go live in encampments –encampments, Honourable Speaker. And they were okay with that. The Speaker: Member's time is expired. The hon ourable member for Fort–[interjection] The–order. Order, please. Everybody come to order.

Need for School Construction P3 Model Inquiry Mr. Obby Khan (Fort Whyte): Honourable Speaker, three weeks ago, this govern ment announced the use of public-private partnerships, or P3s, for a downtown health tower. One week ago, they announced the use of P3s for affordable housing. Yet today, they are rejecting P3s for much-needed schools. Why does this NDP government and the Minister of Education welcome the private sector to health care and affordable housing, but reject it for education and much-needed schools in this province? Hon.

Tracy Schmidt (Acting Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): I mean, the answer's simple. We want Manitobans to own those public resources. Manitobans should benefit from public dollars. That's our legacy. What is the legacy on the other side of the aisle, Honour able Speaker? Their legacy is a legacy of cuts, chaos and apparently car rentals. I thank the question from the member from Fort Whyte and I'm very proud of our 'scapital' school plan. We're going to build schools in the right way, in the way that benefits Manitobans for decades to come.

Zebra Mussel Spread–Clear Lake Request for Downstream Water Testing Mr. Greg Nesbitt (Riding Mountain): Last spring, both the Minister of Environment and Climate Change (MLA Schmidt) and the Minister of Natural Resources told this House they were committed to stopping the spread of zebra mussels from Clear Lake. Since then, the situation in Clear Lake has only gotten worse. Now the Assiniboine River basin, from

2984 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 17, 2024 Riding Mountain National Park to downtown Winnipeg is at serious risk of infestation. I have urged both ministers to increase water testing downstream and to share the results with the public. To date, Manitobans have not seen or heard anything publicly on this issue. Will the ministers commit today to publicly releasing the results of downstream water testing, yes or no? Hon.

Jamie Moses (Minister of Economic Development, Investment, Trade and Natural Resources): Honourable Speaker, I 'm very happy to be standing up here and answering the question on behalf of our government in regards to a very im por- tant Crown jewel in Manitoba, Clear Lake, that a lot of us take very seriously and hold dear to our hearts. I know Manitobans love visiting that space. Now, I think we're all disappointed to learn about the discovery of zebra mussels in Clear Lake, and that's why we've been consistently advocating for the federal government–for them to manage their lake in their provincial park.

Now, we've been advocating on behalf of business owners. We as a Province have been doing our responsibility of testing downstream. Additionally, we've launched the first ever provincial strategy for aquatic invasive species and increased our budget by 45 per cent to make sure that we 're doing our part to fight against all– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. Post-Secondary Education Funding Commitment Inquiry Mr.

Richard Perchotte (Selkirk): Honourable Speaker, the Minister for Advanced Edu cation promised to keep schools whole, yet today the Uni versity of Manitoba has hiked tuition 5 and a half per cent to cover their losses. I table the document today. I've asked the minister repeatedly to ensure funding is in a place to protect the future of students and their cost to education. I 've asked her to be serious in question period, but instead, she focused on the past. The minister has failed our schools, failed our students and failed her duties to live up to her word.

Will she stand up today and apologize for her failures, or will she do the same as she did Tuesday and say it's just, quote, best to sit down? Hon. Renée Cable (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): Honourable Speaker, it's a pleasure to stand up in the House today to correct the member opposite. So I just want to take a –take everyone on a walk down memory lane here and remind them that under the Pallister and Stefanson govern ment, 18 per cent was cut from post-secondary institutions.

This included 5 per cent to Univer sity of Manitoba, 4 per cent to University of Winnipeg, 4 per cent to Brandon University, 4 per–or 7 per cent to University College of the North and all post -secondaries in Manitoba by 5 per cent. The 'menimer' opposite wants to run from his party's record. Sorry, this is what you signed up for. You ran under their banner, you put up their signs, you defended the parental rights nonsense, and now you have to be accountable for– The Speaker: The member's time has expired. And I would remind all members to direct their comments through the Chair.

Health Care in Portage la Prairie Officials Attendance at Town Hall MLA Jeff Bereza (Portage la Prairie): Honourable Speaker, this is about accountability. The minister hoards infor mation and silences experts. I table an email from Dr. Sikora, the head of diagnostic services, that shows only the minister 's own office was im - peding such meetings. If the minister won 't attend our town hall, will they release these experts to attend and answer residents' questions, or is the minister insisting on silencing the experts? Hon.

Uzoma Asagwara (Minister of Health, Seniors and Long-Term Care): Honourable Speaker, over the past year I've had the absolute honour and privilege of serving Manitobans in the capacity of Minister of Health. And what I 've heard con sistently from folks on the front lines and experts is that for seven and a half years, they had a Heather Stefanson govern ment, Brian Pallister, Leader of the Op position, members opposite, who turned their backs on the very folks in

October 17, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2985 this province who guide us with their expertise in health care. On this side of the House we work with our ex- perts as partners. We listen to the front lines and make investments to make health care better, based on what they have to say. We are going to continue to do the work that sees more health -care workers on the front lines, more capacity in our system and more Manitobans accessing care close to home, something they didn' t have for seven and a half years under that failed– The Speaker: Member's time has expired.

The time for oral questions has expired. And I just have a brief statement for the House, that I've noticed, in the last couple of days at least, that the–not just the level of heckling, but the type of heckling has become meaner and nastier. And I hope I'm wrong in this, but it seems like it 's directed to a certain group more so than others. I hope that is not the case, and I would ask all members to stop and think about heckling. I'm not opposed to heckling, but respect for each other has to be important in this place.

We need to set the example for others, and hate -filled comments are not going to set that example. So please, while you're away on constituency week this week, think about your actions, your words, and make sure that you understand that those are im por- tant for all Manitobans. Petitions? Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS The Speaker: Order. Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Government House Leader): Could you please resume debate–or resume Commit- tee of Supply. The Speaker: We will now resolve into Committee of Supply. Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) ROOM 254 TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE * (14:50) The Chairperson (Rachelle Schott): Will the Com- mittee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume considera- tion of Estimates for the Department of Transportation and Infrastructure. Questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Konrad Narth (La Vérendrye): Thanks for giving me the opportunity to be back here today. We'll kind of pick up where we had left off, so a question that I was leading into, honourable Chair, as we left, is clarifying the budget of the de partment.

So the question that I 'd like to ask next is following the statement that was made by the minister that $500 million is budgeted, $500 million spent. So just to get some clarifi cation and certainty on that, if there ends up being unspent budget dollars from this fiscal year, will the funds be added to next year's capital budget? Or how will those funds be managed within the department's budget? Hon.

Lisa Naylor (Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure): Yes, so to the question about spending the $500 million, we are doing everything we can with the full intention of spending the budget in this fiscal year. Mr. Narth: The Manitoba Heavy Construction Associa- tion and the construction industry has called for the – for budget carry- over from our previous PC govern - ment.

So just speaking to management of the budget, I know with good inten tion, $500 million is going to be spent on valuable infra structure projects through- out Manitoba, or that 's the in tention of this minister, but if the funds aren't spent, can Manitobans, especially the construction industry, have the comfort in know - ing that that money will be spent on investment in Manitoba next year? MLA Naylor: So when the opposition talks about carry- over on the budget, it's not really how budgets work. If a government, or anybody, lapses their budget in a previous year, that isn't cash available in a drawer

2986 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 17, 2024 somewhere to take out and spend in another year. So that is why we are trying to responsibly spend every- thing we budgeted this year. We do not want to lapse.

We have actually worked pretty hard this year on our own systems to ensure that, you know, sometimes these lapses are–or the projects get slowed down or take longer than expected because of weather, because of issues with the construction company, and so we've changed our systems in order to more quickly be able to bring on the next project that's in the queue in order to not lapse anything from our budget. So that is the goal. That's what we're working towards.

The member referenced Manitoba Heavy Construc- tion, so this is a great op portunity for me to just say what a valued resource that organi zation is and the industry as a whole in terms of the valuable relation- ship that we have with Manitoba Heavy.

Certainly, we provided a spot on the blue -ribbon panel to the Manitoba Heavy Construction Association so that they could have a contributing voice to some of the provincial projects and recom mendations that would be made for what this de partment does going forward, and are certainly seen as an im portant relationship and an important stakeholder in terms of getting these projects done in the province. So I really value the collaborative relationship we have. Mr.

Narth: This I can appreciate, the minister trying to educate me on how government departments work, I'll phrase the question in one last attempt to get the answer. * (15:00) I'll give a scenario, that if $500 million has been viewed by this NDP govern ment as crucial to invest into our Manitoba infrastructure, and timelines on pro- jects don't allow for that; and let' s say, $450 million was only able to be invested into our Manitoba infra- structure in this fiscal year, and next year, the Manitoba NDP government sees fit that $500 million is again needing to be invested, will $550 million–will the $50 million that was n't able to be spent this year be added to next year's budget?

I don't think Manitobans really care if the money goes into a piggy bank, into a savings account or disappear into general funds. Will that additional money be spent? And then, furthermore, the following year, if another $50 million or now $100 million is a shortfall, will the budget the following year be $600 million? MLA Naylor: That's an interesting number. The last time the MTI budget was over $600 million was under the previous NDP govern ment because the PC gov - ernment came in and slashed and burned for the next five years in a row.

To answer that question, I will just say this: We– I've answered the question on this year's budget. If the member opposite is so privileged to be the critic on this file a year from now, I welcome his questions on next year's budget, and so on, and so on, on the years after that going into infinity. I'm happy to answer budget questions that are to the current budget year, which is what we're here for, so come back next year with that question on next year's budget. Thanks. Mr.

Narth: Honourable Chair, I 'd like to step back and pick up on some staffing questions that were answered yesterday, but I'd like some clarification. So yesterday, the minister went at length about how her massive budget cuts are not cuts to staffing and I accept that she believes that, but can the minister explain how losing years and years of exper ienced staff all at once will impact operations? And is this why many Manitobans are noticing scheduled projects not getting done? MLA Naylor: So I believe that the member opposite has greatly misrepresented the staffing situation and what I said yesterday.

So the budget for–the budget we're discussing is– has the exact same number of FTEs as the previous year's budget. It is substantially concerning when there is a great reduction in staff; the member and I can agree on that. So, going back to 2015-2016, this department had 1,900 staff; 1,900 substantial amount of employees, to an all-time low in '21-22 of 1,159. It's very alarming. Manitobans should be alarmed that in the first six years of the PC govern ment, that they slashed and burned this department by hundreds and hundreds of employees.

Obviously, this made a difference, along with all the other fiscal cuts in terms of maintaining the infrastructure, investing in new infrastructure across the province. This is the opposite approach that our government is taking. So we are working hard, and I mean, those are just FTEs. They–so the–not only was it an all-time low, but there was a 30 per cent vacancy rate in those FTEs.

October 17, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2987 So we've reduced that vacancy rate to 25 per cent over the first year and we have a higher number of FTEs than was seen in the '21-22 budget. So we think staffing's very important. We've also renewed our relationship with the engineer-in-training program with the Uni versity of Manitoba. It's a very critical relationship to bring new engineers into our program, a program that had previously been can- celled by the PC government. Also, the concern about retirement is misplaced, I think. There are retirements every single year.

While there were certain years that more staff left the depart- ment, either because they were so discouraged or because their positions were cut, right now there's just a normal amount of retirements across the system, as there is every year in the public service. I absolutely want to wish the very best to anybody from MTI who has retired in the last year or is about to retire. I 've met many of you, and the service that you deliver for our province is absolutely commend- able and you deserve your retirement, so enjoy. Mr. Narth: If we bring up

section 15.5 and look down at hydrologic forecasting and water manage ment, same as water engineering, the hydrological fore- casting is–seen a cut. We talked yesterday that the answer to some flood mitigation would be to put a larger em phasis on the advancements that are made in flood forecasting and water management. So can the minister please answer how, or if, the minister, she views that cutting corners in the budget here is irresponsible, or is there an answer for the justification? * (15:10) MLA Naylor: Okay.

So regarding, I believe it was the hydrological forecasting and water manage ment line that the member asked about –and there is no change to FTEs. So again, this is not about a staffing cut by any stretch of the imagination. We're also doing a lot to increase capacity in the department, so the engineer -in-training program that I previously mentioned really helps us with recruiting new engineers into the program.

And we also have an agreement with U of M to build our forecasting capa- city, so it's–we're finding ways to increase capacity in the department and do this in a more efficient way, with no cuts to positions. Mr. Narth: At this time, the member –my colleague, the member from Selkirk, has a con stituency-related infrastructure question and I 'd like to give him the opportunity to ask that question. Mr. Richard Perchotte (Selkirk): Earlier in the spring, I met with the minister, and thank you for that very informative meeting.

We talked about a number of things which have transpired for Selkirk, but one of the outstanding issues we had was the Selkirk Bridge. I know that, at the time, we said that the informa- tion provided is that they're waiting for–they're going to com mission an engineer 's report and to find out, based on that report, where they go from there; whether it's going to be repair or replacement. We have seen in Selkirk–I would make the assump- tion that the engineers have been down there doing core samples of the river and doing their work.

I'd just like to find out from the minister's office or the minister herself where this important project is at. MLA Naylor: Thanks for giving me a chance to fol- low up on where that project is at. So, the member's correct. There is work going on right now, so that is the preliminary design phase. That phase is expected to be completed by next sum - mer or spring, by–we think probably June. That phase includes public consultations. Consultations have already begun. And so, until that preliminary design phase is completed, I can 't speak to what the direction of the project will be.

For any project that 's going on, I mentioned yesterday there's around 1,000 in the queue, or in the– like, online at any given time. You know, for the member, for any Manitoban who's listening, if you go to the MTI website, there 's an interactive map that allows you to search by road name, bridge name, like community or munici pality, to find out –any project you're interested in –exactly where it' s at in terms of the planning stage or, you know, if construction has started and the anticipated timelines for that. So it' s pretty accessible information. Mr. Perchotte: Thank you to the minister for that answer.

I noticed that last year, there was a resurfacing of the bridge done to do some of the repairs to band- aid between now and the end, if that's an appropriate word. I noticed some of those repairs are starting to fail. We're getting a little bit of the washboard happening again in the asphalt and the potholes are coming back.

2988 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 17, 2024 I'm just looking for a commitment from this minister and the department to make sure that that is addressed so it doesn 't get as bad as it did in the previous time. MLA Naylor: Like all the roads in our network across the province, there's ongoing assessment, continuous assessment and maintenance as required and as able within the budget to keep roads in a good state of repair. Mr. Perchotte: I'd like to thank the minister for that answer.

So I'm just confirming that there is an actual com- mitment to make sure that the potholes will not get as bad as they did last time. * (15:20) MLA Naylor: With 19,000 kilometres–over 19,000 kilo- metres of transportation network across the province, it's a continual monitoring system. All repairs are done on a priority basis based on, you know, the usage, the traffic volume, sometimes how bad the damage is. As we know, this past spring, there was substan - tial damage as really, you know, because of how wet things were. Certainly gravel roads were in a lot worse condition than they might have been.

So those are continual, you know, judgment calls made by the de partment, by the staff who have the knowledge–the subject area knowledge and expertise to assess what repairs need to happen and which repairs need to be prioritized. Mr. Narth: The question for the minister is: Yesterday, we had spoken about prioritizing projects and it was mentioned that the 18th Street in Brandon was bumped up because of view that the priority was higher than it was scheduled on the list. There has been commitment to have that project completed by October 30.

Would the minister please answer if that project is still slated and scheduled and on track for an October 30 completion? MLA Naylor: Yes, thank you for that question. Certainly, it was–it's absolutely our goal for this pro- ject to be completed in October. Like every construction project, there can be delays, so I think I –you know, you've asked the question. I think I would need to be updated from the contractor. We're still in October, so it's really going to be up to the contractor to indicate to us if there 's, for some reason, they' re not able to complete that project this fall.

But it's, you know, it's quite common in construction projects that there's a little bit of a carry-over into the next construction season, so we will cross that bridge when I get that information from–that was a transporta- tion joke. Sorry. We will address that when I have had the oppor - tunity to be updated from the construction company. Mr. Narth: Moving along then, I 'd like to ask some specifics on managing, budgeting and getting a grasp on how much infrastructure improvement we're capable of doing in the province.

So my question to the minister would be what the average cost is per kilometre to upgrade a provincial paved road to RTAC standards. And at the same time, similarly, what is the average cost to upgrade a gravel provincial road to non-RTAC paved surface? MLA Naylor: Thank the member for that question.

It wouldn' t actually be respon sible to apply a dollar amount because, whether we 're talking gravel road, whether we 're talking paved road, RTAC standards, regardless, every single road has to be assessed within its own context, so the condi tion of the road is a factor, the topography is a factor, the geography is a factor. Certainly, if the road is very remote, it has different expenses attached to it than if it's more urban or in a more populous part of the province. So all of those factors have to be taken into account.

Certainly with some, you know, changes to roads, there is land acquisition, there's all kinds of things that are factored into every single project that makes each project unique, and the budget for each project would therefore be unique. Mr. Narth: Would it be more reasonable to ask an average for southern Manitoba, so not consid ering rural, remote, but this question for southern Manitoba to get an understanding if we were to take the last pro- jects throughout last year and on an average what it had cost to upgrade a

section of provincial road–PR? MLA Naylor: Yes, I mean, you 've identified there's differences between the northern part of the province and the southern part of the province, but there 's all the other factors still apply, so the condi tion of the road, the topography of the area, you know, certainly who–there's so many factors involved in a parti cular project that we can't just assign a number that would be accurate across all projects. Mr. Narth: With that being said, I appreciate it's quite a large, broad question. Seeing as this government and

October 17, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2989 this minister has identified the budget for the current fiscal year, can the minister please provide the pro- jected capital spend for the next three years starting with the fiscal year 2024-2025? MLA Naylor: No. That's not why we 're here today and that's not the budget that we're looking at today. Mr.

Narth: Can the minister please advise the date of the last meeting of the Manitoba Strategic Corridors Advisory Council? * (15:30) MLA Naylor: I believe the member is referring to a working group of some sort that was established under the previous government that doesn't exist under this government. Mr. Narth: So then, moving on to another group, can the minister provide an update on the Northern Airports and Marine Operations, also referred to as NAMO, initiative?

Specifically, which airport author- ities remain under management of the Manitoba gov- ernment and which have been transferred to First Nations ownership? MLA Naylor: I'm very happy to get a question about NAMO because I love airports and marine operations. And when I came into this role, there were 22 northern airports and four ferries operated under NAMO, and there are still 22 airports and four ferries operating under NAMO. Mr. Narth: So just to clarify, that's 22 airports under the management of the Manitoba government?

MLA Naylor: Yes, all 22 airports that were managed by NAMO under the previous govern ment are still being managed by NAMO under this government. Mr. Narth: Can the minister please provide an update on the de partment's work to esta blish a grid of trade commerce routes? And what work has been done under this minister 's tenure to support the heaviest highway loadings possible for trucking? MLA Naylor: Yes. I believe the question was about the continuous work to–for the Trade & Commerce quarters, which has been an ongoing project in the province.

So there have been numerous Trade & Commerce upgrades, both to highways and structures over the last year. So PTH 3, PTH 23, 83, as well as other major routes that are –have been completed are in –or are in progress. Mr. Narth: Thank you to the minister for outlining those projects. Can the minister please provide a

summary of the results of the flood-risk mapping study conducted by AECOM limited in 2024 that sought to map the extent of flooding for the 1 -in-100 year events –the 1-in-200 year events along the Fisher River? MLA Naylor: That study is still ongoing. We 're expecting it to be completed likely early in the new year, and the report will be publicly released once it is completed. Mr. Narth: Can the minister please provide an update on the MOU on economic corridors with Saskatchewan and Alberta?

In parti cular, what is the status of the Indigenous-led NeeStaNan utility corridor running from northern Alberta to the coast of the Hudson Bay? * (15:40) MLA Naylor: Thank you to the member for that question. Yes, I had the oppor tunity to meet with the minister–well, I have met with them, the ministers of Transportation in Alberta and Saskatchewan, at–a couple of times now, but I met with them specifically around the anniversary date of the signing of the MOU so that we could reconfirm our commitment to working together on prairie economic corridors.

It was a great opportunity to actually tour some really interesting highway projects in Saskatchewan, including their very successful new RCUT that th ey have built into one of their highways. And so, yes, I would say that that is a good and ongoing relationship between the prairie provinces that seeks to benefit all of us, all province –all prairie provinces on economic dev elopment and it' s an on- going relationship that continues. Mr. Narth: Can the minister please advise the com - mittee today what priorities the govern ment is ad - vancing under the national trade corridors strategic initiative?

MLA Naylor: Some of the invest ments that we 've made this past year and, well, continuing going forward, is in the national trade corridors, we have been doing surface reconstruction on Highway 75, of course, going south into the US. And a big focus for the next number of years moving forward is goin g to be the twinning project for Highway 1 to the Ontario border.

2990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 17, 2024 Mr. Narth: There has been previous commit ments and part nerships made for twinning the No. 1 Highway from Falcon Lake into Ontario. Could the minister please update us on where that project lies and what the future forecast is on a completion? MLA Naylor: Yes, our government is committed to doing the work to twinning Highway 1 to the Ontario border.

This is obviously a multi-year project, but the work has already begun in terms of the relationships that need to be established with affected First Nations as–and starting to evaluate and plan for this project that will be a multi-year project. Mr. Narth: My question, again, to the minister would be, what–if there's been an established goal and date for completion of the twinning of the highway. With seeing that Ontario is well under way with construc - tion, does this minister have a planned completion time or a start time for that project?

MLA Naylor: I wanted to thank the member for that question, and I understand the urgency to have an end date. But I'm going to give a little bit of back ground. I think this is a really good opportunity for Manitobans to understand the scope of this project. It 's a very exciting project that I know lots of people will be interested in and have expressed interest for a long time. My understanding is that the Ontario side of that project, their twinning project, took 15 years to com - plete. My goal is for this not to take anywhere near as long.

So, really, in many ways, we 've been able to learn from the Ontario project, from why things took a lot longer than we would have hoped. And so that – and we're applying that learning. So the member asked when this project will start. So I want to assure him the project has already begun. We're in the conceptual design phase. We 've already started with early Indigenous consultations. You know, I think, with the Ontario project, what we've heard and come to learn is that some of the con sultation work happened very late in the game, and so we've learned from that.

So that's our starting point, and we 're already on track. It 's quite exciting what we 've been able to accomplish in terms of these early con sultations and the conceptual design right now in our first year, with a, you know, this is, again, a long- term project, but I think we have the oppor tunity to do this in a very timely fashion. Mr.

Narth: We'll probably–or I'll try to keep coming back to some of the infrastructure, capital investment questions, but I 'd like to ask some questions on maintenance. * (15:50) The maintenance depart ment of highways and infrastructure is of great importance and we know that a great deal of the work is done through the main- tenance departments. So my question for the minister would be: Within the maintenance department of Manitoba Infrastructure, could you please–or could she please tell us what the current vacancy rate is within the maintenance depart- ment?

MLA Naylor: Thank you to the member opposite for that question. I think we probably can agree that high- way maintenance is absolutely critical. It' s critical to the safety of all Manitoba roads, so whether we 're talking, you know, pothole repair with gravel, whether we're talking about snow removal, maintenance is essential to safety for Manitobans. And some pretty terrible things took place under the previous government. So we already know that the previous government collapsed five regions for main- tenance down to three, and essentially imposed a hiring freeze over a number of years.

So there was an incred- ible number of vacancies in the highway maintenance. During that time, you know, there was a research study conducted where highway maintenance workers, you know, one maintenance worker was quoted in a research study saying that they were scared for the safety of Manitobans on highways because of the kinds of cuts that had taken place. So we're very committed to staffing up our main- tenance departments.

We have managed to put in an accelerated hiring process, so we reduced the vacancies in maintenance since April from 120 to only 63 and we are committed to fully staffing up our maintenance operations and we'll continue to focus on that, especially as we 're heading into the winter season and all the challenges that are out there for Manitobans with snow and ice on our highways. Mr. Narth: My question for the minister would be, with 63 vacancies, does the minister feel that that being fully staffed is the appropriate number, or is that still low to fulfill the require ments for maintenance across our province?

MLA Naylor: Thank you to member for that question. These positions have been vacant for a long time, so the fact that we have reduced almost by half the vacancy rates just since the spring shows the dedi cation and

October 17, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2991 commitment of our govern ment, certainly of the department staff, in filling this really essential service that the Manitoba govern ment provides to keep Manitobans safe on the highway. So we are going to continue to work. The goal is to eliminate our vacancies, to fill those positions. And, you know, we also, in addition to our own staff, we also work closely with municipalities . We have some maintenance agreements with different municipalities and First Nations as a way of managing the entire network.

And we 're continuing to actively work with municipalities to ensure that the needs are met across the province. Mr. Narth: With taking on 120 vacancies within the department under maintenance and no additional funds allocated to the budget item, is it reasonable to expect that the full 120 will be able to be hired with the current budget? MLA Naylor: The budget allocates the costs of all FTEs, whether those positions are vacant or not. This department is a priority. That must be very obvious by the fact that in only a matter of months, we have reduced the vacancies by 50 per cent.

So it's going to continue to be a priority, and we are continuing to fully–work towards fully staffing it up. Mr. Narth: Thank you to the minister for that response. My question then is, what has been done to fulfill those roles and fill those vacancies in this last year? MLA Naylor: Well, unlike the previous government, we've hired people to do the job. That 's how we 've filled it. Mr.

Narth: I can ap preciate that, but those postings were publicly available previous to the new NDP gov- ernment taking office, so I was just wondering if there's something specifically that has been done other than hiring, which those positions were open under the previous government to be filled. They just–they didn't have the applicants. * (16:00) MLA Naylor: Thank you very much for that question, to the member opposite, because we have made some substantive changes that have affected our ability to hire.

So I did talk about an accelerated hiring process, which we introduced in April, but probably the biggest impact on our ability to fill positions, honestly across the whole sector–I know we're focusing right now on maintenance–but across government is that, you know, I'm sure the member knows very well that the previous government did not bargain in good faith with political–with public servants. And so, when we came into govern ment, the – there was–we were on the verge of the first-ever strike from public–from the public service through the MGEU.

It was a very serious situation that would have deva - stated government and, fortunately, our govern ment was able to bargain in good faith. And, you know, people had been simply under - paid in these roles for a long time and now that –for many years–and you know, that was –that wasn't just MGEU, that was across the entire union sector since, you know, Pallister came in and refused all kinds of contracts to be –you know, nobody was allowed to bargain in good faith. It was an attack on unions for many years, and so our government came in and bargained in good faith.

What that has led to is increased wages for these posi- tions, which are essential, and I'm sure, you know, the reference that the member's made probably indicates it and I know he has exper ience with municipal gov- ernment. It' s a challenge to hire positions, such as snow removal operators, who could do that same job for a municipality or for a private company for sub- stantively higher wages, so that was a gap that had to be closed.

We were able to negotiate a special wage adjust- ment specifically for operators, so all of those impor- tant steps that, you know, that are in support of workers and in support of safety across the province have been the contributing factors to–some of the contributing factors to allow us to reduce the vacancy rate in the maintenance depart ment by almost 50 per cent in a very short time. Mr. Narth: Thank you to the minister for answering that. That's exactly what I was wanting –not exactly what I was wanting to hear, but exactly where I was wanting to go.

So with a very competitive labour market in Manitoba, I just want to clarify that the additional staff did not come from training new professionals to fulfill those roles of snow removal, grater operators, loader operators and all the associated tractor operators and asphalt patchers and all the rest that fulfill those roles. What I understand from the minister's response is that we were able to–or her and her department were able to compete on the basis of favourable union agree- ments resulting in confi dence that the employees

2992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 17, 2024 would have in fulfilling those roles for the Department of Infrastructure. And potentially those people were taken from the private market and, as she had mentioned, municipalities. So these are not net-new staff to the marketplace where we're replacing private enterprise with government posi- tions. Or has there been substan tial training adding new labour to the workforce? MLA Naylor: So to answer that question, we absolutely have a training program for staff.

We train operators from the most entry -level positions right up to the foreman-level positions and that will continue. What has changed is, while we 're changing the culture, the wages have improved although I don' t think by any stretch of the imagination that they are on par or even competitive with the private sector, but there are folks who want to be public servants and want to work for the government. They just need to be able to make enough money to live on and be reason- able for the role.

So while we can 't in any way compete with private industry when it comes to these roles, we can provide a respectful workplace culture, we can provide a workplace where people want to work and where they have the oppor tunity to learn from the ground floor and to stay in roles for a long time and to continually train. And to–so a lot of our focus has also been on retention, which has been a challenge in the past. Mr. Narth: I'd just like to circle back and remind the minister that she's spending less on staff than has been in previous years.

She 's answered in the process that workers are earning more in her department per hour, as she has stated in the last two questions. So she 's spending less on staffing for the same FTEs. This doesn't really mesh. So would the minister please be able to elaborate how the budget for staffing is less? We 've cut main- tenance staffing vacancy by nearly half, which we can say half; 120 to 63. And we're paying them more.

How exactly does that align, unless money' s taken from elsewhere within the de partment, like capital invest- ment spending? * (16:10) MLA Naylor: I do want to put on the record that the last statement from the member opposite could be confusing to the public. It's absolutely impossible to move some- thing from the capital budget to the operational bud- get. That is not a thing. That is not what happens. So I just didn 't want the public to be misled with that statement.

Just straight up, we have the money in the budget for the FTEs that we have in the budget and that we have named, and the number remains the same. Mr. Narth: So I'd just like to make it known to com- mittee that we 've talked about the same thing in dif - ferent ways now. But just again to clarify, and I'll quickly move on, that the minister has said that not enough had been spent previously by the previous government, and money had been returned to the budget as carry- over in the past. That budget has been cut by this government and under her leadership as minister. But yet, there's plenty of dollars.

So there 's less money spent than the previous Conservative govern ment has spent, but yet there 's plenty to pay additional staff, and in the maintenance department, specifically, that's 120–potentially 120 new staff members. The money for that additional 120 mem- bers is within the budget outlined for this fiscal year. MLA Naylor: Okay. So much misinformation on the record now I need to correct. There were 120 vacancies. These are not net-new positions. We are filling vacancies that the previous government left unfilled. These are not net-new posi- tions. The dollars are in the budget for those positions.

They were just not spent under the previous govern - ment, as that department was allowed to languish and to not be appropriately staffed to do the work of high- way maintenance, which is critical for safety in our province. As to the previous –I'm not quite sure what the member's saying, but he's clearly confusing capital budget with operational budget–two completely different streams that we need to discuss differently. Mr. Narth: I'll just move on because I think that I've gotten the response that I was looking for. So thank you to the minister for clarifying that.

Within the maintenance de partment, the de part- ment is very dependent on bid-hourly work. Would the minister please be able to tell the com- mittee if bid-hourly work–maybe we'll start with: What is the dollar figure spent by her de partment on bid- hourly work this fiscal year? MLA Naylor: Yes, thanks for that question. I was hoping we could give a number to answer that question, but we've, you know, as we've discussed over here.

October 17, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2993 * (16:20) It's impossible to just give a number because the bid-hourly rates would be broken out across –there's some within operation, there's some within capital, but it's also broken out across multiple programs within the budgets. So it's not, like, wound up in one precise number. It's broken out into too many different pro- gram areas. Mr. Narth: Honourable Chair, my question specific- ally–and sorry for not clarifying that –was in main - tenance. Would the minister be able to give a dollar amount for bid- hourly work within the maintenance department?

MLA Naylor: It was very helpful to understand that the member's just looking for a number on bid -hourly– spending on bid-hourly rates for highway maintenance, and that number was roughly $5 million in the 2023-24 fiscal year. Mr. Narth: Great, thank you, honourable Chair, and thank you to the minister for providing that. I know that speaking definitely in my region to highways, yards and the foremans and supervisors, regional supervisors, bid hourly and contract work has been fulfilling massive voids within the maintenance department.

These are local–generally very local, pri- vate contractors that have been able to fulfill the need where many times staffing shortages have not allowed. Would the minister now, with the newfound ability to staff up these departments, would the minister feel that bid hourly and contract work positions –these are contractors that fulfill, you know, holiday snow clearing, they 're called upon ditch mowing when potentially the staff or equipment isn't available in the local yards, they fulfill these roles.

Is this a partnership with the private sector that the minister feels is impor tant and will continue, or will be diminished as staffing numbers can be ramped up? MLA Naylor: I–so to the member's question, there's always going to be a role for bid-hourly contract work. There's across the entire province so many places where that's, you know, where there 's–that's going to be required, and how much and how little of that is going to vary year to year based on weather, based on specific needs, events that come up in specific regions.

So that's always going to be part of how the work is delivered within the province. However, I mean, I'm getting the impression by this line of questioning that the member is more committed to work for private contractors than for good government jobs. And if he imagines that that is, I don 't know, a gotcha moment, he hasn't read my mandate letter and has sorely misjudged our govern ment's commitment to good Manitoba jobs, good govern ment jobs for Manitobans. And it's literally in my mandate letter to staff up positions, to make sure that we are hiring Manitobans into these positions.

And so that will continue and bid hourly contracts will continue as needed. * (16:30) Mr. Narth: Thank you to the minister for those com- ments and that statement. And just to be clear, I was asking those questions, not because of discrediting the importance of –or the need for good, well-paid government jobs to fulfill the role of maintenance of our infra structure throughout the province, but to highlight the im portant role that the private sector also plays in complementing that.

And that–I would hope that the minister isn't blinded by the mandate to hire good govern ment jobs and discrediting or, you know, discounting, I should say, the importance that the private sector does play in complementing infrastructure maintenance within the province. So, I'd like to move on, though, which I'm sure the minister appreciates, into agreements that are made in maintenance. We're still going to stay on maintenance because I think it 's probably some of the –or, is the most, in my opinion, the most important part of infra- structure in our province.

And my question would be: How many maintenance agreements does the minister's department have with cities, towns and municipalities currently? MLA Naylor: Currently, we have 16 gravel-maintenance agreements with municipalities and 38 winter main - tenance agreements, and we also have a number of agreements with First Nations communities regarding our winter road network. Mr. Narth: So, just to clarify, the 38 includes the 16 or doesn't include the six– An Honourable Member: They're separate. Oh. The Chairperson: The honourable minister. MLA Naylor: Those are separate agreements.

It doesn't mean that a municipality might not have both, but they're separate agreements for two different types of work.

2994 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 17, 2024 Mr. Narth: I'd like to thank the minister for having those numbers available and to her staff in the depart- ment. Are there any current service agreement proposals outstanding with municipalities, First Nations or towns and cities? MLA Naylor: I don't think that I would describe it as any outstanding agreements. What I would say is that I've had dozens and dozens and dozens of meetings with munici palities and First Nations since being in this role, and every meeting, I'm interested in ways we can col laborate and work together.

So, if a munici pality or a First Nation has capacity, both within equipment and within the staffing, and they are interested in a maintenance agreement, either for snow removal or for gravel, then we are interested in moving that forward. We're–I'm trying to be really col laborative with communities. Certainly, there –you know, there 's an economic opportunity. There's also–it gives commu- nities decision making. You know, there–I'm sure the member knows that, across the network, there are different, like, each road is rated in terms of priority for snow removal, for example.

But I've met with communities that have said, you know, we understand this road isn' t your top priority because it's not, you know, a major trade corridor, but it's important to us and our–in our community for this reason. Well, if they have that contract, they can also decide to prioritize that road because it works for their community, so I am so open to that collaboration and it's been very, very fruitful discussions. So, you know, I anticipate we'll have more of these agreements going forward. Mr. Narth: Thank you to the minister for that response.

Again, coming from municipal government, I'm glad to hear that this minister and her de partment are willing to work with municipalities on what makes most sense to the municipality. Something that municipalities have brought up along these lines of service agreements, which haven't been clearly defined in the past as they have been with road maintenance agreements, has been waterways maintenance agreements–some of those that fall under the Minister of Infrastructure and her department.

Is that something that the department would enter- tain moving forward? * (16:40) MLA Naylor: Yes, so further to the member's question about these agreements with municipalities regarding the water maintenance. We don 't currently have any agreements like that with any municipalities, but again, our government is a listening gov ernment and I've–it's been my absolute pleasure to meet with as many municipalities as I have over the past year and hope that the ones I didn' t get to meet with in year 1 will–that that will happen very quickly as we go into year 2 of our government.

But–so part of that is that we're–we would definitely be open to this if it made sense within budget. We are definitely looking at and consid ering how this might work and starting a process of conver sation with municipalities that have expressed an interest in the past. Mr. Narth: Thank you to the minister for that comment. I've heard from many munici palities across the province, and especially in my constituency, the im - portance of timely maintenance of these waterways, many times along highways, and I know first-hand the decades it can take for approval.

Many times, this is a high priority for the ratepayers of the munici pality willing to front the funds necessary, so they'd just like to get the work done. Just following through on the same path of main- tenance and the equip ment needed for the additional staff–or, not additional, but fulfilled roles of staff. We know that equipment, it expires; it's a depreciating asset. So can the minister explain why her depart - ment's own Estimates of Expenditure show $2 million cut to general assets, which to my under standing would include the assets of equipment needed for maintenance?

With maintenance already being neglected in so many regions across the province, will more need to be done with less equipment or is there a plan on purchasing more equipment for the department? MLA Naylor: So I believe the –sorry, the member opposite is talking about the General Assets line under Transportation Capital Projects and Equipment. And so that–so the number in that line is –it's the right amount; it's what's required to meet our overall capital budget of $540 million. So that will provide us what's required in terms of capital projects and equip- ment. Mr. Narth: Thank you to the minister.

October 17, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2995 In the interest of time, I think we 'll wrap up this portion for Estimates of Infra structure. That gives us enough time to finish it today. * (16:50) Obviously, I have many more questions, so it's not of a result of not having many more good questions to ask the minister, but would like to provide enough time for the other departments to have a chance to ask questions through the Estimates process. The Chairperson: Seeing there are no further questions at the moment, we will now move to the resolutions.

Resolution 15.2: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $9,128,000 for Transportation and Infrastructure, Corporate Services, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 15.3: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $6,546,000 for Transportation and Infra structure, Infra structure Capital Projects, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 15.4: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $169,628,000 for Trans portation and Infra structure, Transportation Operations, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 15.5: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $32,889,000 for Trans portation and Infra structure, Engineering and Technical Services, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 15.6: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $10,444,000 for Trans portation and Infra structure, Emergency Management, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 15.7: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $540,000,000 for Trans portation and Infra structure, Capital Assets, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025. Resolution agreed to. The last item to be considered for the Estimates of this department is item 15.1(a), the minister's salary contained in reso lution 15.1.

At this point, we respectfully request that the minister's staff leave their table for the consideration of this last item. The floor is open for questions. Seeing no questions. Resolution 15.1: RESOLVED that there be granted to His Majesty a sum not exceeding $2,943,000 for Trans portation and Infra structure, Finance and Administration, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2025. Resolution agreed to. This completes the Estimates of the De partment of Transportation and Infrastructure. The next set of Estimates to be considered by this

section of the Committee of Supply is for the Depart- ment of Emergency Expenditures. The hour being 4:55, what is the will of the committee? An Honourable Member: Rise. The Chairperson: Committee rise. ROOM 255 EDUCATION AND EARLY CHILDHOOD LEARNING * (14:50) The Chairperson (Robert Loiselle): Will the Com- mittee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume considera- tion of the Estimates for the Department of Education and Early Childhood Learning. Questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Grant Jackson (Spruce Woods): Great to be back today in Educa tion and Early Childhood Learning Estimates.

Following up on some of the conversations where we left off yesterday –in question period today, the minister was asked about why they're not proceeding with the P3 model of building schools, and I believe her quote was that they were instead going to build schools the right way. So can the minister clarify that she believes that capital projects in this province should not be built in

2996 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 17, 2024 the P3 model and that is what is meant by building schools the right way? Hon. Tracy Schmidt (Acting Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): So building on my comments made today in question period, when we're talking about the right way to build schools, that's in a fiscally responsible way. The PC plan that they announced–and as we dis- cussed yesterday in committee–was not properly budgeted for or planned for. Had it gone forward, it would've been an unreasonable and an unrealistic and an unsustainable draw on the public treasury.

In the Free Press just this morning, the critic was quoted as admitting that money was not set aside for their plan. He said that we should have gone to Treasury Board with their plan–their announced, unbudgeted-for, unrealistic, unreasonable plan–but that wouldn't have been the responsible thing to do. And that's because–well, there's a few reasons, but one of them is certainly because our government was left with a nearly $2 -billion deficit after an election year in which the outgoing gov ernment ballooned budgets in an irresponsible way. You don' t have to take my word for it.

The inde pendently hired firm of M-M-P–MNP, pardon me–that was their findings. They were spending in a risky way, putting Manitobans at risk. The opposi tion PCs themselves rejected the P3 model back in 2018 as a way of building schools, and that was after they claimed to have studied it. It wasn't just an opinion; they said that they studied the issue and that it would not save money, that the traditional way of building schools would save money, not the P3 model. That was their position in 2018; all of a sudden in 2023, in an election year, they flip-flopped.

We believe–the NDP gov ernment believes –that wherever possible where public funds are being spent, we should turn that into public assets. That 's what we're talking about when we're talking about the right way. The P3 model, when it comes to schools, has a very suspicious record. We can look to other jurisdictions. We can look to Nova Scotia where the P3 model was used–and subsequently researched and studied –and was proven to have cost the taxpayers in Nova Scotia unnecessary millions of dollars.

The P3 model is documented to have failed in Saskatchewan; even Alberta has rejected the P3 model for school builds. We believe that wherever possible, public schools should be owned by the people of Manitoba; the public should own and benefit from these facilities. Using this model, we have and will continue to make pro- gress. We are currently building four new schools: two in Sage Creek for DSFM and LRSD, one in Seven Oaks, one in Steinbach for the Hanover School Division. We are making progress on the school capital plan.

The opposition's plan, I would argue, was reckless, was not fiscally respon sible; it wasn 't real, really. It wasn't real. We have a plan. We are going to follow it so every Manitoban in this province can and will succeed. * (15:00) Mr. Jackson: So just to clarify the minister's comments, because there–a couple of questionable comments there, where she said, wherever possible, public funds should turn–that are funding construction should turn into public assets. She does know that how a P3 works is that the facility does turn into a public asset after a certain period of time. I hope she knows that.

But my question is, she put a lot of empha sis on that the public should own these facilities when they're public funds being used to develop them. So that's her plan for schools, but she, as a member of Cabinet, has approved P3s for affordable housing projects and the Portage Place medical dev elopment in the last three weeks alone. So schools need to be publicly owned if they' re publicly funded, but those two develop ments for affordable housing units and medical facilities don't?

MLA Schmidt: We're here to talk about school capital, so while I ap preciate the question, I 'm not going to comment about decisions being made on other projects. Manitobans elected an NDP gov ernment after years of chaos under Brian Pallister 's Progressive Conservatives and then Heather Stefanson's Progressive Conservatives. They failed students and families and communities year after year after year. They repeat - edly cut operational funding to schools. The funding that went to schools failed to match inflation, which was a cut.

And, in fact, they capped funding arbitrarily under threat of having administrative funds withheld. The member opposite, in discussing his opinions about our government's capital plan to build schools– which we are making progress on, which we will con- tinue to make progress on– has often referenced the

October 17, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2997 fact that they built–their government built 14 schools in seven years. And if we average that out, that 's two schools a year. And then suddenly, in 2023, that previous govern- ment announced a plan to build and fund nine schools instantly because of the model that they chose, and it was a dream. It gave false hope to families and com - munities; false hope that continues to rear its ugly head today with com munities coming to us, talking about these schools–these imaginary schools–that were pro- mised. This is reckless governing.

That is not what serves the interests of Manitobans. What Manitobans are going to get from our gov- ernment are realistic, fiscally respon sible, properly budgeted plans to improve school capital. And we 're going to do that on a case -by-case basis in the best way possible. But we're going to do it realistically. We've got a significant challenge ahead of us. The opposition likes to point out that classrooms are full, and that's true in many cases; not in all cases, but in some cases. What they fail to remember is that it was them that eliminated the legis lative requirement to limit class sizes.

What they fail to acknowledge was the historic truancy that 's going on in the edu cation system for many years, certainly exacerbated by the pandemic, but there was no response. Something they could' ve done, some thing we're very proud to have done, was introduce some thing like the school nutrition program. A historic invest - ment, $30 million towards feeding hungry kids, towards helping staff up food programs, to help buy equipment and resources needed in schools to make sure that they are meeting the students ' needs. We're very proud of that program.

We can't wait to see the dividends that it pays for years to come. Mr. Jackson: Once again, there's a bit of revisionist history going on here. If the minister would like to know, it was actually a commitment to build 10 new schools by–20 new schools by 2029 was the original commit ment in the 2019 election campaign, and with the addition of the nine schools from the P3, it would have taken us to 23 new schools by 2029. That was the overall com - mitment.

It was not that the commitment was to have these nine new schools spring out of a hole in the ground, as she is characterizing it on the record today, but I digress. The minister–I have to switch gears here to child care–and the minister last week was asked how many child-care projects in the first year of this NDP gov - ernment have been approved–new child-care projects have been approved in the first year in office. And she is quoted in Hansard as having said: I 'm pleased to update the House that over 120 projects have been approved and will be out throughout every region of Manitoba.

Can the minister table a list of those 120 projects today? * (15:10) MLA Schmidt: Thank you, honourable Chairperson. Thank you for the question about the child-care situa- tion here in Manitoba, which I am excited to talk about. As a parent of school -aged children and recently the parent of preschool -aged children, I myself have had a lot of lived experience in navigating this system, which had been woefully neglected under the previous government. So we can certainly table a list of previously announced projects.

However, there are a host of projects which are approved; however, cannot yet be announced because of the terms of the agreement with Canada. That an nouncement should be coming in a matter of weeks, and we would be happy to share the information when it's available. And we're very excited about the work the depart- ment has been doing, the work that our govern ment has been doing to create more child -care spaces here in Manitoba that are sorely needed. The goal, ob- viously, is to meet 23,000 new child- care spaces for children six and under. We are well on our way towards that goal.

There is much work yet to do, but we are rolling up our sleeves and doing that work. But we all know in this room that there are other challenges facing the child -care sector that can 't be solved by simply imme diately adding a bunch of spaces. This has to be done in a targeted and measured way, and that's because of the challenges that Manitoba has ex perienced in the last seven and a half years under the previous government in recruiting and retrain– retaining early childhood educators.

So we would love to open all those 23,000 spaces tomorrow, but the reality is that we would not have the ECE, early child hood educator, staff to fill those positions and provide that much-needed care. So as part of our most recent budget, Budget 2024, we increased operating grants to child- care facilities

2998 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 17, 2024 by 5 per cent. And that's after seven years of freezes to those operating grants, which leaves facilities in a lurch. Child-care facilities require funds to operate. Again, as I said previously, we could open up–I wish we could open up 23,000 child-care spaces tomorrow, but with- out the operating funds to run those facilities, the spaces are somewhat less valuable. We know that we need staff to open more space.

So that's why, on top of increasing the operating grants to child -care facilities by 5 per cent, we have also increased wages for ECEs by 2.75 per cent. And we believe that that will help recruit and retain more workers in the sector. I know that parents in this room will agree ECEs are one of the most valuable jobs in our com munity. They care for our children, our youngest, most vulner- able citizens, and for too long, they' ve been under - valued and underpaid. So, with our 2.75 per cent increase, we're changing direction.

We 've also maintained the tuition reimbursement program for students in ECE 's training programs, and we know that will help also. I'm also proud of the work of the Minister of Advanced Education who has expanded post-secondary programs and established two new programs at the University College of the North and Université de Saint-Boniface. So a lot more work to do, but we're rolling up our sleeves and we're getting it done. Mr. Jackson: I'm glad to hear the minister is main - taining the tuition rebate that was in place under the previous government.

That's good to know she sup- ports that Progressive Conservative measure. It's also good to know that she supports the wage grid, which was part of this initial agreement which was signed on by Progressive Conservatives; I 'm glad to know that she supports that Progressive Conservative initiative as well. The minister's justification for why they' ve only announced one child-care centre, which is in the Premier's (Mr. Kinew) constituency, I might add, this year–one year in office–is because the federal government hasn't agreed to make the an nouncements yet.

Not sure if anybody's read the federal polling lately, but I'm pretty sure the federal Liberals are looking for some good news. So does the minister honestly expect Manitobans to believe that the reason these projects haven 't been announced is because Justin Trudeau and his team can't get around to it? MLA Schmidt: I'm happy to talk about the part ner- ship between Canada and Manitoba. And thank good- ness that Manitobans had the good sense of electing a New Democratic government who' s willing to work across jurisdiction, across party lines.

We're here–our government is here to serve the best interests of Manitobans. Previous government had–and frankly, continues to have–a reputation of an inability to work with any level of govern ment, to work with stake holders, to work with public servants. That 's some thing that I heard a lot about on the doorstep during the election campaign, was the fact that Manitobans just want elected representatives that are there to work for them. It doesn't always have to be a game of politics.

I know why, or I can suspect why, the member oppo- site is bringing up the next federal election, because I know they're watching it very closely; they're frankly obsessed with it, obsessed with Pierre Poilievre. In fact, much of this first year in government–during this first year of govern ment, while on our side of the House we've been working for Manitobans, rolling up our sleeves, the other side of the House talks constantly about their federal leader, talks constantly about federal policies, federal programs.

They had a dismal reputation for being able to deal with municipalities in our province. * (15:20) I was just at an event this week, hearing from a municipal leader who couldn't say enough good things about the col laborative relationship that our govern - ment has. And this was a munici pality that doesn 't really–had a reputation for necessarily supporting the NDP, but this municipal leader was thrilled with our style of government.

And whether it's Justin Trudeau or Pierre Poilievre or any other federal leader, our Premier has shown a willingness to work with all levels of gov ernment across party lines to do what's best for Manitobans. And we're having a lot of great success. The member, I believe, referenced that there' s been one daycare open or one space open, I 'm–I apologize, I can' t recollect his exact words in the question. But the truth of the matter is, is that 2,100 new child- care spaces have been opened since the NDP were elected.

As I mentioned before, while I'm not able to table the list of new capital projects at this point, over

October 17, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2999 120 capital projects have been approved and will be built throughout every region of Manitoba; 33 have been completed, 20 are in construction and 75 are in the design and planning phase. So I think that's really good work. I welcome the collaboration with the federal gov- ernment, a federal government who has shown some leadership on the child-care file. We hope that whatever government is formed after the next federal election will share those priorities.

But, again, we're happy to work with the Prime Minister, mayors, reeves right across this province, regardless of political stripe. We are a listening gov - ernment and we really mean that. That is not just rhetoric. We put that into action every single day. Mr.

Jackson: You know, the minister has a lot of contradictions in all of her commentary so far today and yesterday, the latest of which is that, on the one hand, she's talking about spending–or rather not spending money from a bilateral agreement that was signed between our govern ment–our previous govern ment and the federal govern ment and then saying on the other hand that we never worked with the federal gov- ernment at all. But the reality is this money wouldn 't be in her budget to spend if Progressive Conservatives hadn' t signed on to this agreement with the federal Liberals and made this happen.

And so the minister, it's unfortunate that she wants to stonewall and make excuses for why she hasn' t announced any of these projects, why her government hasn't announced any of these projects. There are many centres, and I 've written to the Minister of Education on behalf of many centres in my constit- uency and in my colleagues' constituencies and in some of their constituencies across the province, advocating on their behalf. Because I know there are countless centres who are waiting to hear from this government on their expansions.

And so I question the minister 's commitment to reaching out to the federal govern ment. And they might have a rosy relationship and they all like to have coffee together, but are they actually getting anything done? And I would argue that if they haven't announced any new child-care centres over the last year, they 're not getting very much done. And so the question to the minister is: When is her next outreach to the federal minister going to take place, and when will they

schedule the announcement of these approved child-care centres? MLA Schmidt: Yes, I'm very proud of our rosy relation- ship with the federal government, and I wish that the opposition would aspire to have those same types of rosy relationships because at the end of the day, what that rosy relationship produces is real results for Manitobans. We could pick partisan fights all day long like the previous gov ernment did, but we 'd be in the same position as them, which is outside of govern ment– which hopefully they will stay for a long, long time.

To answer the question directly, I will very shortly have my first meeting with the federal minister, perhaps as early as tomorrow. We'll see; stay tuned. And I'm also very excited to have just learned that the federal ministerial FPT for education is happening in PEI in November, so heaven forbidding–we all, as we mentioned yesterday, we all wish the minister, the MLA for Transcona well and that he will back–be back in this chair sooner than later, he

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	43-1-77b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	43rd 1st hansardpdf 77b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	d794fd03a8a452095359a58c8a8a132b42f2ac49

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).