British Columbia Hansard — Tuesday, May 3, 2011 (39th Parliament, 3rd Session) (H0503pm-12) (H0503pm 12)

H0503pm-12

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session, 39th Parliament official rePort of Debates of the Legis Lative a ssemb Ly (hansarD) the honourable bill bari Soff, SPeaker iSSn 0709-1281 Tuesday, May 3, 2011 Afternoon Sitting Volume 20, Number 12

Pro Vince of britiS h colu Mbia (entered c onfederation July 20, 1871) lieutenant -Go Vernor h is h onour the h onourable Steven l.

Point, obc Third Session, 39th Parliament SPeaker of the leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y h onourable bill barisoff eXecutiVe council Premier and President of the executive c ouncil .............................................................................................................. h on. c hristy c lark Deputy Premier and Minister of finance ............................................................................................................................h on. k evin f alcon Minister of a boriginal r elations and r econciliation ...........................................................................................................h on.

Mary Polak Minister of a dvanced e ducation .................................................................................................................................h on. n aomi Y amamoto Minister of a griculture ........................................................................................................................................................... h on.

Don Mcr ae a ttorney General ........................................................................................................................................................... h on. barry Penner, Qc Minister of c hildren and f amily Development ................................................................................................................ h on.

Mary Mcn eil Minister of c ommunity, Sport and cultural Development .................................................................................................. h on. ida c hong Minister of e ducation .........................................................................................................................................................h on.

George a bbott Minister of energy and Mines and Minister r esponsible for h ousing.........................................................................h on. r ich c oleman Minister of environment ....................................................................................................................................................h on. Dr. t erry l ake Minister of f orests, l ands and n atural r esource o perations......................................................................................h on.

Steve Thomson Minister of h ealth .................................................................................................................................................... h on. Michael de Jong, Qc Minister of Jobs, t ourism and innovation ................................................................................................................................... h on. Pat bell Minister of l abour, citizens' Services and o pen Government .............................................................................. h on.

Stephanie c adieux Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General .................................................................................................................h on.

Shirley bond Minister of Social Development and Minister r esponsible for Multiculturalism ............................................................ h on. h arry bloy Minister of t ransportation and infrastructure ................................................................................................................h on. blair l ekstrom leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y l eader of the official o pposition ......................................................................................................................................................a drian Dix Deputy Speaker .................................................................................................................................................................................... l inda r eid a ssistant Deputy Speaker ..................................................................................................................................................................Dawn black Deputy c hair, c ommittee of the Whole ...................................................................................................................................Douglas h orne c lerk of the l egislative a ssembly...................................................................................................................e.

George MacMinn, obc, Q c c lerk a ssistant ..................................................................................................................................................................................r obert Vaive c lerk a ssistant and l aw c lerk................................................................................................................................................. ian D. izard, Qc c lerk a ssistant and c lerk of c ommittees ............................................................................................................... craig h.

James (on leave) c lerk a ssistant and a cting c lerk of c ommittees ................................................................................................................. k ate r yan-l loyd Sergeant-at-a rms ................................................................................................................................................................................. Gary l enz

alP habetical liS t of MeMberS a bbott, h on. George (l) ........................................................................ Shuswap a ustin, r obin (nDP) ................................................................................ Skeena bains, h arry (nDP) ....................................................................Surrey-n ewton barisoff, h on. bill (l) ............................................................................Penticton barnett, Donna (l) ................................................................ c ariboo-c hilcotin bell, h on.

Pat (l) ..................................................... Prince George–Mackenzie bennett, bill (l) .............................................................................k ootenay e ast black, Dawn (nDP) ................................................................n ew Westminster black, iain (l) .............................................................. Port Moody–c oquitlam bloy, h on. h arry (l) ............................................................burnaby-l ougheed bond, h on.

Shirley (l) ...........................................Prince George–Valemount brar, Jagrup (nDP) ................................................................ Surrey-fleetwood c adieux, h on. Stephanie (l) ................................................Surrey-Panorama c antelon, r on (l) ..............................................................

Parksville-Qualicum c handra h erbert, Spencer (nDP) ................................Vancouver–West end c hong, h on. ida (l) ..................................................... o ak bay–Gordon h ead c houhan, r aj (nDP) ........................................................... burnaby-e dmonds c oell, Murray (l) ..............................................Saanich n orth and the islands c oleman, h on. r ich (l) ........................................... f ort l angley–a ldergrove c onroy, katrine (nDP) .............................................................. k ootenay West c oons, Gary (nDP) .........................................................................n orth c oast c orrigan, k athy (nDP) ..................................................... burnaby–Deer l ake Dalton, Marc (l) ..............................................................

Maple r idge–Mission de Jong, h on. Michael, Qc (l) .............................................. a bbotsford West Dix, a drian (nDP) ............................................................Vancouver-kingsway Donaldson, Doug (nDP) ......................................................................... Stikine e lmore, Mable (nDP) ................................................... Vancouver-kensington f alcon, h on. k evin (l) ..........................................................Surrey-c loverdale f arnworth, Mike (nDP) ............................................................

Port c oquitlam fleming, r ob (nDP) .......................................................... Victoria–Swan l ake f oster, eric (l) .......................................................................Vernon-Monashee f raser, Scott (nDP) ............................................................a lberni–Pacific r im Gentner, Guy (nDP) .........................................................................Delta n orth h ammell, Sue (nDP) .................................................... Surrey–Green t imbers h ansen, c olin (l) ............................................................

Vancouver-Quilchena h awes, r andy (l) ............................................................... a bbotsford-Mission h ayer, Dave S. (l) .................................................................... Surrey-t ynehead h eed, k ash (l) ................................................................ Vancouver-fraserview h ogg, Gordon (l) ............................................................... Surrey–White r ock h organ, John (nDP) .......................................................................

Juan de f uca h orne, Douglas (l) ..............................................c oquitlam–b urke Mountain h oward, r ob (l) .....................................................................r ichmond c entre h untington, Vicki (ind.) ..................................................................Delta South James, c arole (nDP) .........................................................Victoria–b eacon h ill k aragianis, Maurine (nDP) ........................................e squimalt–r oyal r oads k rog, l eonard (nDP) ........................................................................... n anaimo k rueger, kevin (l) ............................................... k amloops–South Thompson kwan, Jenny Wai ching (nDP) ...........................

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant l ake, h on. Dr. t erry (l) .....................................k amloops–n orth Thompson l ali, h arry (nDP) ..........................................................................f raser-n icola l ee, r ichard t . (l) .......................................................................burnaby n orth l ekstrom, h on. blair (l) .......................................................

Peace r iver South l es, John (l) .........................................................................................c hilliwack l etnick, n orm (l) ........................................................k elowna–l ake c ountry MacDiarmid, Dr. Margaret (l) ......................................... Vancouver-fairview Macdonald, n orm (nDP) ....................................c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke Mcintyre, Joan (l) ..................................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Mcn eil, h on. Mary (l) .................................................Vancouver–f alse creek Mcr ae, h on.

Don (l) ................................................................... c omox Valley Mungall, Michelle (nDP) ..........................................................n elson-creston Penner, hon. barry, Qc (l) ....................................................c hilliwack-h ope Pimm, Pat (l) ..........................................................................Peace r iver n orth Polak, h on.

Mary (l) ...............................................................................l angley Popham, l ana (nDP) ...................................................................Saanich South r alston, bruce (nDP) ................................................................

Surrey-Whalley r eid, l inda (l) .............................................................................r ichmond e ast r outley, bill (nDP) .................................................................. c owichan Valley r outley, Doug (nDP) ............................................n anaimo–n orth c owichan r ustad, John (l) ........................................................................... n echako l akes Sather, Michael (nDP) ......................................... Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows Simons, n icholas (nDP) ...................................

Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast Simpson, bob (ind.) .....................................................................c ariboo n orth Simpson, Shane (nDP) .....................................................Vancouver-hastings Slater, John (l) ..............................................................boundary-Similkameen Stewart, ben (l) ..................................................................... Westside-kelowna Stilwell, Dr. Moira (l) ......................................................... Vancouver-l angara Sultan, r alph (l) .....................................................

West Vancouver–capilano Thomson, hon.

Steve (l) ........................................................k elowna-Mission Thorne, Diane (nDP) .................................................c oquitlam-Maillardville Thornthwaite, Jane (l) .......................................... n orth Vancouver–Seymour t revena, c laire (nDP) .................................................................... n orth island van Dongen, John (l) .............................................................a bbotsford South Y amamoto, hon. n aomi (l) ................................. n orth Vancouver–l onsdale Y ap, John (l) .......................................................................r ichmond-Steveston Vacant ...............................................................................Vancouver–Point Grey liS t of MeMberS bY riD in G a bbotsford-Mission .......................................................................r andy h awes a bbotsford South .....................................................................John van Dongen a bbotsford West ......................................................h on.

Michael de Jong, Qc a lberni–Pacific r im ..........................................................................

Scott f raser boundary-Similkameen .....................................................................John Slater burnaby–Deer l ake ................................................................... k athy c orrigan burnaby-e dmonds ......................................................................... r aj c houhan burnaby-l ougheed ...................................................................h on. h arry bloy burnaby n orth .............................................................................. r ichard t . l ee c ariboo-c hilcotin ........................................................................Donna barnett c ariboo n orth ................................................................................ bob Simpson c hilliwack ...............................................................................................

John l es c hilliwack-h ope .......................................................... h on. barry Penner, Qc c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke .................................................. n orm Macdonald c omox Valley...........................................................................h on. Don Mcr ae c oquitlam–b urke Mountain .....................................................Douglas h orne c oquitlam-Maillardville...............................................................

Diane Thorne c owichan Valley ................................................................................ bill r outley Delta n orth ......................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ...............................................................................Vicki h untington e squimalt–r oyal r oads .....................................................Maurine k aragianis f ort l angley–a ldergrove ...................................................h on. r ich c oleman f raser-n icola........................................................................................ h arry l ali Juan de f uca .....................................................................................John h organ k amloops–n orth Thompson ............................................ h on.

Dr. t erry l ake k amloops–South Thompson ...................................................... k evin k rueger k elowna–l ake c ountry ...............................................................n orm l etnick k elowna-Mission .............................................................. h on.

Steve Thomson k ootenay e ast ....................................................................................bill bennett k ootenay West ............................................................................ k atrine c onroy l angley.......................................................................................h on. Mary Polak Maple r idge–Mission .....................................................................

Marc Dalton Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows ........................................................Michael Sather n anaimo ......................................................................................... l eonard k rog n anaimo–n orth c owichan ......................................................... Doug r outley n echako l akes ..................................................................................

John r ustad n elson-creston ........................................................................Michelle Mungall n ew Westminster ..............................................................................Dawn black n orth c oast....................................................................................... Gary c oons n orth island .................................................................................. c laire t revena n orth Vancouver–l onsdale ........................................h on. n aomi Y amamoto n orth Vancouver–Seymour .................................................

Jane Thornthwaite o ak bay–Gordon h ead ............................................................ h on. ida c hong Parksville-Qualicum ..................................................................... r on c antelon Peace r iver n orth ................................................................................Pat Pimm Peace r iver South ...............................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Penticton................................................................................... h on. bill barisoff Port c oquitlam ..........................................................................Mike f arnworth Port Moody–c oquitlam ...................................................................... iain black Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast ................................................. n icholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie .............................................................h on.

Pat bell Prince George–Valemount ...................................................h on. Shirley bond r ichmond c entre ............................................................................ r ob h oward r ichmond e ast ................................................................................... l inda r eid r ichmond-Steveston ..............................................................................John Y ap Saanich n orth and the islands .....................................................

Murray c oell Saanich South ................................................................................ l ana Popham Shuswap ...............................................................................h on.

George a bbott Skeena .............................................................................................. r obin a ustin Stikine ........................................................................................Doug Donaldson Surrey-c loverdale .................................................................h on. k evin f alcon Surrey-fleetwood ...............................................................................Jagrup brar Surrey–Green t imbers ..................................................................Sue h ammell Surrey-n ewton ................................................................................. h arry b ains Surrey-Panorama ........................................................ h on.

Stephanie c adieux Surrey-t ynehead ........................................................................... Dave S. h ayer Surrey-Whalley.............................................................................. bruce r alston Surrey–White r ock ....................................................................... Gordon h ogg Vancouver-fairview ................................................ Dr. Margaret MacDiarmid Vancouver–f alse creek ........................................................ h on.

Mary Mcn eil Vancouver-fraserview ........................................................................k ash h eed Vancouver-hastings ....................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-kensington .................................................................Mable e lmore Vancouver-kingsway..........................................................................a drian Dix Vancouver-l angara .................................................................Dr.

Moira Stilwell Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ..........................................Jenny Wai ching kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ...............................................................................Vacant Vancouver-Quilchena ................................................................... c olin h ansen Vancouver–West end ...............................................Spencer c handra h erbert Vernon-Monashee ...............................................................................eric f oster Victoria–b eacon h ill .......................................................................c arole James Victoria–Swan l ake.........................................................................r ob fleming West Vancouver–capilano ............................................................. r alph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ........................................................

Joan Mcintyre Westside-kelowna .............................................................................ben Stewart Party Standings: l iberal 48; n ew Democratic 34; independent 2; Vacant 1

CONTENTS t uesday, May 3, 2011 a fternoon Sitting Page Routine Business introductions by Members ..................................................................................................................................................... 6529 Presentation of r evised e stimates......................................................................................................................................... 6530 e stimates of sums required for the service of the province h on. k. f alcon t abling Documents ................................................................................................................................................................. 6530 Budget and Fiscal Plan 2011/12–2013/14 Government's service plans Statements (Standing order 25b) ......................................................................................................................................... 6530 interim leadership of nD P S.

Simpson Protection of drinking water supply J. Slater e lizabeth f ry Society k. c orrigan a rt exchange between 'n amgis first n ation and Germany l. r eid Minerals n orth conference in Stewart D. Donaldson Serpentine enhancement Society D. h ayer oral Questions ......................................................................................................................................................................... 6533 c leaning services at health care facilities a. Di x h on. M. de Jong M. f arnworth Services for developmentally disabled persons n. Simon s h on. h. b loy M. k aragianis S.

Simpson Government action on b.c. f erries cancellation of prepaid passes G. c oons h on. b. l ekstrom k. c orrigan b.c. f erries service model c. t revena h on. b. l ekstrom Motions Without notice ......................................................................................................................................................... 6537 a ppointment of a ssistant Deputy Speaker J. h organ Petitions .................................................................................................................................................................................... 6538 M.

Mungall t abling Documents ................................................................................................................................................................. 6538 british c olumbia Judges c ompensation c ommission, final report, 2010 british c olumbia Judicial Justices of the Peace c ompensation c ommission, final report, 2010

Orders of the Day Second r eading of bills .......................................................................................................................................................... 6538 bill 4 — h armonized Sales t ax (hS

t) i nitiative Vote and referendum a ct h on. b. Penner b. r alston D. Donaldson S. Simpson M. Sather n. Macdonal d J. brar h. b ains D. r outley J. h organ h on. b. Penner bill 5 — n ew West Partnership trade a greement implementation a ct h on. P . bell J. kwan M. Sather k. c orrigan b. Simpson r . flemin g h on. P . bell Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room c ommittee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 6570 e stimates: Ministry of a boriginal r elations and r econciliation h on. M. Polak S. f raser V . huntington b. Simpson D. Donaldson G. c oons

6529 tueSD a Y , MaY 3, 2011 The h ouse met at 1:35 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Introductions by Members J. Y ap: a ll members of the h ouse know of the good work of r otary international, a worldwide organization of 1.3 million r otarians, many in c anada, who do good work for humanity, promoting peace and harmony and health and the welfare of people. We have a number of visiting r otarians from the n orth Delta r otary c lub.

With us today are Sean h ogan, who is the district governor-elect for district 5050 of r otary international; n eil inglis; l ornell r idley; bob Marshall; t eresa Marshall; Doug Denyer; bob a ttfield; and e lgin Duke. They're here as the guides for a group study ex - change team from ireland. r otarian David f alkingham is the GS e team leader, and he's with four team mem - bers: Janet Millar, Julie Mck ee, Patricia c ampbell and t racy r osborough.

This team has been touring british c olumbia and Washington State, visiting r otary clubs and learning about life here in british c olumbia and c anada. in a week they return home to ireland with some great memories, i'm sure, of r otary life and life here in british c olumbia and c anada. Would the h ouse please join me on giving them a warm welcome on their visit to the l egislature today. L. Popham: Please join me in welcoming two dear, dear friends of mine. They're two women who i have the utmost respect for.

They're women farmers in Saanich, and they run a business called Saanich organics, which distributes healthy, certified organic food throughout our region. They've been doing it for years. They make their living this way, and i'm hoping maybe they can supply our restaurant here. Please make them welcome. D. Hayer: it gives me great pleasure to introduce 53 students from grade 5 who are visiting here from Pacific a cademy, one of the best schools in c anada, in my riding of Surrey-t ynehead.

Joining them are their teachers, Mr. r ick bath and Grant Wirtz, as well as 34 parents and vol- unteers who have taken time out of their busy schedule. Would the house please make them very welcome. H. Bains: in the gallery we have Mr. Sudesh Jain and his wife Sushma Jain, all the way from n ew Delhi, and their daughter a nu Mittal and her husband, k apil Mittal, along with their two beautiful daughters. Please help me welcome them to this h ouse. Hon. M. Polak: t oday joining us in the gallery we have a friend and constituent of mine, Mr. t im l ounsbury, along with his grandson a dam Wojak.

Would the h ouse please make them welcome. D. Routley: c an the members help me introduce a young man who has been a neighbour of mine for over 20 years — in fact, longer than his 20 or so years, be - cause i've known his parents much longer than that. h e's a student visiting us, very interested in politics, very balanced and progressive view, as reflected by his en - dorsement of the official opposition. l et's all make n ick Wade welcome to the house. L. Reid: i have the pleasure of introducing nine new l egislative a ssembly summer tour guides.

They will be with us throughout the summer — please rise — and taking two weeks of training and offering educational tours to many school groups and international tourists who visit the Parliament buildings during the spring and summer. These post-secondary students bring with them the ability to provide tours in english, f rench, Spanish, German, Mandarin, t aiwanese, Japanese and Punjabi. i would like you to formally welcome them: Jasleen a ujla, t amara c hwist, n ozomi f ukaura, Jean l awson, Sally l ee, Mary Mci nnes, Maxim l egault-Mayrand, e sher Madhur and Genevieve r yan.

Would the h ouse please make them very welcome. I. Black: i need to ask the indulgence of the mem - ber for c owichan Valley, because i'm about to introduce one of his constituents. but i do have a very good excuse, Member, because he happens to be my father. [1340] h e joined us for lunch today in the l egislature and is pleased to report that the quality of the lemon mer - ingue pie is precisely where it needs to be. Would the h ouse please join me in welcoming my father, Stewart black, to the h ouse. Hon. K.

Falcon: i'd like to echo the welcome that was made earlier by the member for Surrey-t ynehead, who welcomed the grade 5 students from Pacific a cademy. it so happens that a couple of the parents happen to be people i know very well. i would like to welcome n ancy and r ob Martin, who are here with their son brad on this trip. i would hope that they have a wonderful visit, and i appreciate the opportunity to host them here to watch us in question period. Welcome. J. Slater: it is my pleasure to introduce a friend and colleague of mine, c had e liason, who is also a council - lor for the great city of Salmon a rm.

Would the h ouse make him very welcome.

british c olumbia Debates6530 t uesday, May 3, 2011 D. Hayer: l et me also include my welcome to the members of r otary c lub of n orth Delta. Dr. Duke used to be my dad's doctor. i've known him for a long time, so i'm happy to see him here with all the r otary club as well as the r otarians from ireland. a lso, i have my niece here, Jasleen a ujla, who will be working as a tour guide. She's a student at uVic, and she's involved in the hockey team. i would like to welcome her. Would the h ouse please make her very welcome. c ongratulations on getting the job working as a tour guide.

They definitely need a tour guide who can also explain in the Punjabi language. R. Hawes: Many of us on this side of the h ouse are anxious to go in to Saanich to buy some organic goods, but unfortunately, the member for Saanich South didn't tell us the name of the guests she has. We're hoping here on this side — hoping against hope — that she'll give the names, please, so we know where to go. L. Popham: Thank you for making me look so pro - fessional in front of my two friends. [l aughter.] Their names are r obin t unnicliffe and h eather Stretch. Hon. M. de Jong: r est assured, we're all on our way.

May 1 to 7 is Drinking Water Week in british c olumbia, and to raise awareness, we have two people visiting us in the precincts today. Daisy f oster is the ceo of the b.c. Water and Waste a ssociation. She is joined by Jim Mattison, board member with the b.c. Water and Waste a ssociation. i hope all members of the h ouse will make both of them feel most welcome.

Presentation of Revised Estimates e Sti Mate S of Su MS re Quire D for the S er Vice of the Pro Vince h on. k. f alcon presented a message from h is h onour the a dministrator: estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2012, presented to the l egislative a ssem- bly May 3, 2011, and a supplement to the estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2012, presented to the l egislative a ssembly May 3, 2011, recommending the same to the l egislative a ssembly. Hon. K.

Falcon: i move that the said message and the revised estimates accompanying the same be re - ferred to the c ommittee of Supply in replacement of the estimates that were referred to the committee on f ebruary 15, 2011. Motion approved. Tabling Documents Hon. K. Falcon: i have the pleasure to rise and retable the Budget and Fiscal Plan 2011/12–2013/14, which fulfils the requirements of

section 7 of the budget t ransparency and a ccountability a ct. The Budget and Fiscal Plan has been revised to reflect the changes to executive council since f ebruary 15 but is otherwise unchanged. [1345] Mr. Speaker, i also retable, on behalf of the ministers responsible, the service plans required under the budget t ransparency and a ccountability a ct. These documents are presented in two binders. The first binder contains service plans for the office of the Premier and 17 ministries.

The accountabilities in these service plans have been reorganized to reflect the changes to executive council since f ebruary 15. The second binder contains service plans for 27 c rown corporations and agencies and includes a list of organiza- tions that are exempt from the service plan requirements under

section 13 of the budget t ransparency and a ccountability a ct. it also identifies organizations that are receiving or losing exempt status, together with the reasons for these changes, and four organizations that have been added to the government reporting entity by regulation, with an explanation for these additions. Statements (Standing Order 25B) interiM leaD erS hiP of nDP S.

Simpson: it's been an eventful political year in british c olumbia, with both parties experiencing unanticipated leadership changes. a s we all know, such change has a sig- nificant impact on the workings of a political party and a caucus. in the case of the government side, Premier c ampbell remained in office until the selection of Ms. c lark. o n the opposition side, our leader stepped down, creating a vacancy while we waited for the ultimate selec- tion of the member for Vancouver-kingsway. filling that vacuum was a challenge that needed to be addressed, and we survived it well, thanks to the member for n ew Westminster, who stepped up as in - terim leader when called upon by our caucus and party. i want to thank her for the stability and leadership she provided, offered up with class, humour, commitment and hard work over the past few months. a s the member for n ew Westminster likes to say, she was minding the gap, and she did it well.

She demon - strated a calm determination in how she executed her responsibilities and, in doing so, built a renewed solidar- ity in our caucus. a ll members have an appreciation of the challenges of leadership. We understand the pressures and the variety of demands put on our leaders, all happening under the

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, May 3, 2011 6531 spotlight of the media and the public. The member for n ew Westminster delivered with flying colours during her months at the forefront of the nDP . a s caucus chair, i had the opportunity to work every day with her as we prepared for our new leader and con- tinued to perform our duties as opposition. The member for n ew Westminster did a remarkable job bringing us through this time in such great shape.

She pushed the government hard on issues, always with integrity and a determined respect that advanced our views with clar - ity and insight, and she worked inside our caucus with a single-minded focus on building our team.

The member for n ew Westminster has demonstrated the best traits of elected office and leadership, step - ping up to the challenge and working to bring people together for a common cause. i know i speak for all members of the official opposition and, i trust, for all members of the h ouse in thanking her for demonstrat - ing the conduct and demeanour that reflects on all of us as elected representatives. Protection of Drinkin G Water SuPP l Y J.

Slater: a s was mentioned, May 1 to 7 is proclaimed Drinking Water Week in b.c. to raise awareness of the value in our water. o ur proclamation this week is sup - ported by the b.c. Waste and Water a ssociation, whose mandate is to help safeguard public health and the en - vironment on water matters by providing education, training and knowledge-sharing. i would like to acknowledge again the guests Daisy f oster and Jim Mattison for all their hard work and their organization in british c olumbia, as we have some of the best drinking water in c anada.

The quality of our province's drinking water continu- ously improves over the years, and we should be proud of that. in the last ten years we have made significant progress in improving the quality and standards of drinking water. in 2003 we enacted the Drinking Water Protection a ct to protect water from source to tap and to safeguard the health of british c olumbians.

This was built on the action plan for safe drinking water, created in 2002 to focus on preventing and treating contamina - tion as well as identifying risks in communities. [1350] e xamples of investments in drinking water systems include $20 million through t owns for t omorrow for more than 150 projects, including 61 water and sewer infrastructure projects, and $80 million for 87 projects through the b.c. community water improvement pro - gram. of the projects approved to date through the building c anada communities component, 80 of them were for water, sewer and wastewater infrastructure, with an investment of more than $100 million.

The b.c. Water and Waste a ssociation has been pro - viding operator training in b.c. for 50 years. We now have more certified operators — more than 1,300 certi - fied since 2002 — and on-line courses designed to help train small-system operators. i invite you to raise your glass of water, take a sip and acknowledge the great taste of b.c. waters. c heers. eliZ abeth fr Y Societ Y K. Corrigan: This week is n ational e lizabeth f ry Society Week.

The c anadian society was founded in 1939 and named after the british pioneer who was a cru- sader for prison reform for women. in c anada the society provides support for women across the spectrum of justice system involvement. importantly, they focus on the children of those women. The goal of the society is to enhance public awareness and education regarding the circumstances of victim - ized and criminalized women involved in the criminal justice system. it's important work, supporting perhaps the most marginalized women in society.

My first contact with the good work of the e lizabeth f ry Society came in the 1980s, when i was a member of the l akeside a dvisory board, a community board which liaised with women prisoners at the l akeside prison in burnaby. e lizabeth f ry members were tireless and dedi - cated and non-judgmental advocates for a group of women who often were in many ways broken and discarded by society. in my community of burnaby, among other things, the e. f ry supports girls in cus - tody at the burnaby Y outh c ustody c entre by ensuring they understand their rights and teaching them self- advocacy skills.

They also provide recreational and educational opportunities to youth and sometimes are just there to listen. n ational e lizabeth f ry Week always ends on Mother's Day, because the majority of women who are criminal - ized and in prison are mothers.

Most of them were the sole supporters of their families at the time they were incarcerated. a s e lizabeth f ry Societies point out, when mothers are sentenced to prison, their children are sen - tenced to separation. i hope everyone will take this opportunity to make themselves familiar with the good work that the society does, consider making a donation and, finally, consider the society's aim to encourage the development of and support for community-based alternatives to costly incarceration. art eX chan Ge bet Ween 'na MGiS fir St nation an D Ger Man Y L.

Reid: l ife is not just about moments that leave you breathless but rather the moments that take your breath away. one of these moments was the opening of the Power of Giving art exchange in a lert bay, british

british c olumbia Debates6532 t uesday, May 3, 2011 c olumbia. a rt is the exchange of ideas and values, exactly what transpired when the 'n amgis first n ation and the people of Dresden, Germany, decided to share their most precious artifacts, when an extremely large museum exchanged their treasures with the u'mista c ultural c entre on c ormorant island. When items representing the baroque period in his - tory came to british c olumbia and the world's finest mask collection went 11,000 kilometres across the globe to Dresden, Germany, it was a journey of respect for us and for those that come after.

"The world cannot be safe for democracy unless it is safe for diversity." These words were spoken by renowned first n ations artist r oy h enry Vickers at the 2011 DiVerS e city a wards. it was such a pleasure to hear him speak. We agree that art is about telling stories, about show - casing cultures, and we both know that diversity needs to be celebrated each and every day. i don't believe there's a better example of showcasing cultures today than the exchange entitled Power of Giving. Special thanks to Dr.

Martin r oth, who invited me to participate; c onsul General Sitz; and the many won - derful German visitors who have fallen in love with c ormorant island. Y ou will always be welcome. i would encourage all british c olumbians to take in the exhibit on c ormorant island, which will run through to a ugust 28, 2011. MineralS north conference in Ste Wart D. Donaldson: We will rock you, Mr. Speaker. n o, that's not a preview of the question period coming up today.

"We will rock you" was the slogan of this year's Minerals n orth c onference held in Stewart a pril 27 to 29. i attended and was able to welcome on behalf of all Mla s in this l egislature mining leaders from across the country, exploration companies, suppliers, and lo - cal government and first n ations representatives. The mood was upbeat due to some of the best commodity prices on record.

This makes for a very promising ex - ploration season this year and an improved outlook for mining in the northwest. [1355] The significance of the region from a mineral perspec- tive to the province and even nationally was noted by a number of the expert speakers.

The enthusiasm was tem- pered somewhat by a concern expressed by many at the conference over a lack of resources in the permitting, mon- itoring, assessment and first n ations consultation sections of ministries that deal with mining. a s was pointed out, this could hinder the ability of the sector to react quickly and efficiently to the bump in commodity prices. a side from industry, there was also positive news from Geoscience b.c ., which will invest in a $3 million data-gathering exploration program in the northwest this year.

This is the type of work from the publicly funded body that has spurred private sector invest - ments when conducted in other parts of the province. Geoscience b.c. does valuable work, as was recog - nized by the bipartisan finance c ommittee of this l egislature that recommended its activities be further funded after 2011. "We will rock you" really did rock, and that was in large part due to the enormous effort of Stewart. Mayor a ngela brand Danuser, her staff, volunteers and the people of that small community put on an incredible show.

The sun shone for three days, and the commun - ity with c anada's most northerly ice-free deep-sea port created the atmosphere for an extremely successful Minerals n orth. c ongratulations to all involved. SerP entine enhanceMent Societ Y D. Hayer : There is an organization in my constituency whose only goal is to make the world a better place.

They do it quietly and without conflict and with little help from anyone other than the members and volunteers. in fact, every member of the Serpentine e nhancement Society is a volunteer, from its president, Glenn Wright, to directors and members Dr. t om Goodman, barry c hild, a lan Dobby, Dave Woods, c arol Wright, f rank Marshalock, bruce e aston, c hris h amming, and e bb and Julia budgell.

The goal of these fine people is to return the valu - able salmon runs to the Serpentine r iver, the leisurely stream that winds its way throughout one of the most urban places in c anada, my city of Surrey. on the last e arth Day the Serpentine enhancement Society increased the population of the stream by re - leasing 20,000 juvenile salmon raised in the t ynehead h atchery, located in t ynehead Park in my riding. these society members raised salmon for the fu - ture. they raised awareness of the importance of fish and about the environment, with our young people, through ongoing interaction with elementary schools and children throughout the city of Surrey with all schools.

There are hundreds of volunteers who diligently contribute their time to keep the valuable hatchery, wildlife habitat enhancement and education programs ongoing. Some of them volunteer hundreds of hours every year. This excellent organization is holding an open house and fundraiser on Sunday, May 8. i urge everyone in the h ouse and everyone in Surrey to at - tend this very important event and ask all members in the h ouse to thank and congratulate every member and all the volunteers of the Serpentine enhancement Society for the important work they do for our en - vironment, for our future.

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, May 3, 2011 6533 Oral Questions cleanin G Ser ViceS at health care facilitieS A. Dix: My question, as promised, is to the Minister of h ealth. i wanted to say to the Minister of h ealth that i don't think…. i don't believe the fact that he's sur - rounded by four former h ealth Ministers and a highly regarded doctor is any indication of a lack of confidence by the Premier.

My question is a very simple one. a s he knows, prob- lems with hospital cleaning and hospital cleanliness caused the Vancouver island h ealth a uthority to take away seven cleaning contracts from c ompass. n ow, those contracts were awarded to another contractor, Marquise, and then what did c ompass do? They bought the company. They bought Marquise. This absurd situa- tion is being allowed to continue. When will the Minister of h ealth put patients first and stop this failed privatiza- tion agenda on Vancouver island? [1400] Hon.

M. de Jong: t o the opposition leader in this our first exchange: i appreciate his concern for my well- being. i'd observe, looking at who's sitting next to him, that old h ouse l eaders never die. They just fade into health care. t o the question at hand, though, the member will know — and i'm sure all members understand — the importance that the government places on ensur - ing that the health facilities that british c olumbia's families visit are maintained to the highest possible standards of cleanliness. That has been the policy. it continues to be the policy.

Those standards will be rigidly enforced, and happily, we are in a position, given the work that has been done by some of those previous ministers in the government, that we can actually assess that in ways that very few jurisdictions can and in ways that were impossible just ten years ago in b.c. Mr. Speaker: The l eader of the o pposition has a supplemental. A. Dix: Dramatic increases in hospital-borne infec - tions. r epeated violations of WorkSafe rules. That's the record. The government in 2008 nonetheless renewed without bid this contract.

The fact of the matter is that hospital cleanliness is a major problem in british c olumbia, and everybody knows it but the government. Their auditors are the only ones in the world who believe there's no link between cleanliness and the spread of infection. n ow, this case shows the absurdity of the govern - ment's policy. They took action against c ompass, and c ompass is going to get all of those contracts. When will the minister take action? When will he take action to protect patients on Vancouver island and deal with this privatization agenda? Hon.

M. de Jong: What i do find somewhat curious is that the member relies upon data or purports to rely upon data that exists, whereby only ten years ago, none of that data would exist. The previous administration showed no interest in actually measuring on an ongoing basis what was taking place within our health care facili- ties.

That has not been the approach of this government or the health authorities. i might also say this. in making the comments he has in this chamber, what the member really does is disparage the work of hard-working men and women who day in, day out attend at health care facilities in british c olumbia and keep those facilities clean to the very best of their ability. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. The l eader of the o pposition has a further supple - mental. A.

Dix: The disrespect with which this government has treated health care workers has been established everywhere in c anada including at the Supreme c ourt. So for the minister to suggest that a government that has cut the level of cleaning is concerned about workers is an insult, hon. Speaker. it is an insult. Why don't they take action now? They even acknow - ledge that their scheme didn't work on Vancouver island. They even had to intervene to deal with c ompass, and now c ompass is frustrating that process by buying the company and getting the contracts back.

Why doesn't he take advantage now before this pro - cess is gone through and repatriate those contracts so that people on Vancouver island can ensure that they have clean hospitals to go to in the future instead of the government's agenda, which apparently is to cut costs in that one area of health care where surely no one believes costs should be cut. When is he going to take action and reverse this privatization agenda? Hon. M. de Jong: Well, there in his final comment re- veals the true frustration.

The member remains opposed and objects to any of the partnerships that draw on the dynamism that exists within the private sector to ensure…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: t ake your seat for a second. Sit down. Members. c ontinue, Minister. [1405]

british c olumbia Debates6534 t uesday, May 3, 2011 Hon. M. de Jong: a t a time when the health care budget in the span of just ten years has essentially doubled from just over $9 billion to almost $18 billion, we are going to do two things as a government.

We are going to ensure that british c olumbia families access health care facilities that are kept to the highest stan - dards possible in terms of cleanliness, and we are going to continue to look for innovative ways to partner with the energy that exists in the private sector of british c olumbia to help deliver those services where it is ap - propriate to do so. M. Farnworth: What british c olumbians want to see in their hospitals is cleanliness, not outbreaks of C. dif- ficile.

That's what british c olumbians want to see in their hospitals in b.c. n anaimo General h ospital is synonymous with in - fection control problems in the province of british c olumbia. in 2008 a C. difficile outbreak resulted in more than 90 cases of illness and three deaths. Those infection rates have continued up to the present day. l ast year alone, there were 11 deaths due to C. difficile in the same region.

My question is: given the fact that Viha is once again looking at changing cleaning contracts in the province of british c olumbia, why doesn't the province do the right thing and bring that contract back in-house and get cleanliness standards back to where british c olumbians expect them to be? Hon.

M. de Jong: in-house, out-house, out-of-house — the objective is to have hospitals that are maintained to the highest possible standard. if the members can't step beyond this ideological connection they have with a particular way of delivering service, then that's their problem. but the government is going to continue to look for ways to ensure that we are capitalizing on innovation and at the same time ensuring that b.c. fam - ilies can access hospitals and health care facilities secure in the knowledge that they are being maintained to the highest possible standards of cleanliness. M.

Farnworth: What's been ideological is this gov - ernment's approach to health care and their ideological disrespect not only to health care workers but to what the people of this province expect, which is cleanliness in hospitals. l ast spring 11 people died during a C. difficile out - break which finally ended in a ugust. it's due in part to shoddy housekeeping taking place, not meeting the standards maintained in contracts. Viha is con - sidering changing the contract in n anaimo General h ospital once again.

So will the minister ensure the right thing and do the right thing, which is bring those housekeeping standards back in-house and ensure that people have confidence once again in the housekeeping taking place in british c olumbia hospitals? Hon. M. de Jong: first of all, anytime there is a death in whatever circumstances, it is tragic. but in raising this issue — and the member as critic, the members of the opposition will appropriately raise them — he should do his homework and be fair and be clear about what some of the assigned causes for those deaths were and how the germ was brought into the hospital.

That's all i'll say about that. but the member went on to talk about the standards. h e's a former h ealth Minister. Mr. Speaker, what was different when that member was a h ealth Minister, than any of the people on this side, is there were no standards. it is that absence…. it is the fact that as government and when he was minister there were no standards that, i think, lies at the root of the frustration. [1410] There are standards today, and we are going to work with the health authorities to ensure that those stan - dards are maintained at hospitals right across british c olumbia.

Ser ViceS for De Velo PMentall Y DiSableD P erSonS N. Simons: l ast week in this h ouse the minister re - sponsible for c ommunity l iving b.c. said that no adult with a developmental disability was forced to move out of their group home. Perhaps the minister could tell that to r enata c ole of t errace, whose daughter and three other residents of a home were required to move be - cause of the budget pressures put on by this government to c ommunity l iving b.c. c an the minister please explain to that family how their daughter was forced to move? Hon. H.

Bloy: t o the member across the way, in my short time in this ministry i have been assured by r ick Mowles, the ceo of c ommunity l iving british c olumbia, that no one has ever been moved without their prior ap- proval, without being part of the planning process. in my meetings with the british c olumbia a ssociation for c ommunity l iving, f aith bodnar and some of the families associated with them talked about the great work that c ommunity l iving british c olumbia does. in fact, they were recognized as the leader across c anada in the work that c ommunity l iving b.c. does. Mr.

Speaker: The member has a supplemental. N. Simons: Maybe the minister's responsibility now is to look objectively at the programs his government provides instead of listening without question to every - thing he's been told by the people who are propping

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, May 3, 2011 6535 him up. These are families that are being impacted by the minister's cuts. These are families that are being told contradictions to reality. Despite what the minister said last week, we've had group home closures, forced moves. We've had program cuts, budget cuts, and now we have a minister who's in denial. There's a person in british c olumbia who waits by the door. a fter 20 years of going to a day program, he's no longer funded. h e puts his coat on, and he waits by the door for his lift. if that's not a program cut, i don't know what is.

What is this minister going to do to get to the truth of the issue in his ministry and actually address the needs of families who have a member with a developmental disability? Hon. H. Bloy: i want to reiterate to the member across the way that group homes are not a choice. Group homes have not been closed. e very individual has been asked if they want to move out. n ot every person wants to live in a group home. Y ou know, this is not about the budget; this is about a plan which is best for individuals. There are lots of people that live in our communities.

They work in our community, they have disabilities, they study in our community. We have athletes that are training, living in our community. These are about choice, and these choices are made by individuals without any question of being forced to move. M. Karagianis: i just heard the minister say that gov - ernment offers a plan that is best for individuals. Well, i'd like the minister to tell that to k irsten eikenstein.

She has been caring for her daughter c orrine for the past 19 years here in greater Victoria. c orrine has cerebral palsy, is unable to use her hands and is 100 percent dependent on all aspects of care. n ow, c orrine was receiving 12 hours of care a week, but this b.c. l iberal government cut that. n ow c orrine gets two hours respite a week, and when she turns 18 and finishes high school, that will be cut. So i'd like to ask the minister: do you think it's okay for people like c orrine to be cut off of services entirely when they turn 18 years of age? Hon. H.

Bloy: i can assure the members across the way that c ommunity l iving british c olumbia is re - viewing members and…. What's the word i'm looking for? They…. i'm sorry. [1415] interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. H. Bloy: c ommunity l iving b.c . reviews each client that comes into the system. c lients with special needs are reviewed from about the age of 15 so that they're prepared. They have a plan ready for that indi - vidual when they come into c ommunity l iving british c olumbia. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. M.

Karagianis: i'm actually quite shocked that the government thinks that zero support is a plan for any child aging out of school. but maybe the minister can defend the numbers to Janet Gann. She's been the pri - mary caregiver for her disabled son for the past 19 years, despite her own health issues. Janet's son has been doing a job training program in burnaby and is part of the Special o lympics skating team. c ommunity inclusion is very paramount to her son's mental health.

Y et, once Janet's son completes high school, he will no longer receive any supports — none of the supports necessary to be part of his community. Janet wants to know from this minister why her son should have to pay for the b.c. l iberal government funding squeeze for this ministry. Hon. H. Bloy: c ommunity l iving british c olumbia has not cut its budget. it has increased by $13 million over the last year, and it continues to work with innova- tive approaches to help all individuals.

Y ou know, we had a report out last week from bc- cla G. i've read that report. i'm reviewing it, and i look to further talking with my staff about that report. S. Simpson: This minister and the b.c. l iberals are failing people with developmental disabilities in british c olumbia. That's the reality, particularly for people who are living in group homes. So 33 closures, and young people moving from c hildren and f amilies to clbc are finding that there is no service available for them when they get there. That's the reality we're facing. This minister talks about the assessments that are done.

Well, let's talk about that. This assessment is done by the Guide to Support Allocation . That's what clbc uses. l et me read you one clause out of this flawed re - port: "Staff are to focus on current disability-related needs as outlined within the plan, rather than past or anticipated future need." My question to the minister: does he think it makes any sense that with a person with a developmental dis - ability, when you do their assessment, you ignore their history, and you ignore their potential future condition? is that his idea of an assessment? Hon. H.

Bloy: o ur first priority as a government and through c ommunity l iving british c olumbia remains the individuals and the families that we support. There

british c olumbia Debates6536 t uesday, May 3, 2011 have been no budget cuts. i want to reiterate that. There's been a $13 million increase. c ommunity l iving british c olumbia remains com - mitted to serving our clients with innovative support and services. We want to reach out to each client that we have within the system. i'm proud of the work that c ommunity l iving staff and their 3,200 contract pro - viders provide to these people across all of british c olumbia. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. S. Simpson: l et's talk about those providers. This min- ister talks about the providers.

Well, most of them are members of the b.c. a ssociation for c ommunity l iving. This minister talked about f aith bodnar, their executive director. So what has she said about the performance of this government? "We know that service redesign is not an answer to addressing the funds needed for those who are waiting for service…. it is short-sighted, poor and harmful excuse for fiscal planning…and…completely unsustainable." That's what the community thinks about this government's plan. h on. Speaker, the plan has failed.

The reality is this: 600 people a year, new people coming into the system, and no money for them. Will the minister go to his friend, the finance Minister, and get him to give a few of that $2½ billion of cushion to c ommunity l iving b.c. so the developmentally dis - abled don't have to pay for your fiscal mismanagement? [1420] Hon. H.

Bloy: i want to reassure, to the members op- posite, that our first priority is always the individual and their families. i can tell you that c ommunity l iving b.c. has not had a cut in budget. it's had an increase of $13 million. i've met with the community living association of british c olumbia in the discussions that i've had. They're so proud of the work that clbc does in british c olumbia.

They recognize them as a leader is what they told me in a meeting that i had with them and some of their family members. i look forward to meeting with them again in the future. but they were pleased with the work that we were doing. They considered c ommunity l iving british c olumbia a leader in providing services for individuals with developmental disabilities. Go VernMent action on b.c. ferrieS cancellation of PreP aiD P a SSeS G.

Coons: b.c. f erries unilaterally changed the rules for prepaid c oast c ards and seized well over a million dollars from thousands of b.c. families who bought the cards expecting the ferry corporation to honour them. The issue is serious enough that there's a threat of a class action lawsuit. instead of forcing british c olumbians to take a government-owned corporation to court, will the Min - ister of t ransportation solve this today by making b.c . f erries honour the cards or give the money back? Hon B.

Lekstrom: This issue has obviously come to the forefront, and we've heard about it. i know the important part of this — and i know the member will agree, or i think he would — is that the ferries commis - sioner has recognized that this is a concern, as well, and has also said that he is going to investigate this, look into it, put a report together and get back to us. i'm looking forward to those findings, as i'm sure the mem- ber is and all b ritish c olumbians. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. G.

Coons: it has come to the ferries commissioner's table, and he's acknowledged that he can't do anything about it. h e can make recommendations, but nobody has to follow those. This is obviously a b.c. l iberals– sanctioned ripoff of ferry users and families. The results of a poll released in March showed 87 per- cent of the province wants this government to step in and force b.c . f erries to honour the deal they made with customers and either pay back the money they took or honour the cards.

So far, the only message this l iberal government is sending to families is that they're out of luck. once again, to the t ransportation Minister: will this government put families first and give back the money for those who bought the cards in good faith? Hon B.

Lekstrom: a s i said in my previous answer to the member, the independent ferries commissioner is looking into this. i'm looking forward to the results of his findings, and at that time we'll look into it. but what i do find interesting is how righteous the member believes he is. l et's just point out — and this will be an uncomfortable fact…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon B. Lekstrom: between 1991 and 1999 there was a 70 percent fare increase through b.c. f erries when your government held office. i don't know how you can be so righteous, Member. it doesn't work. K.

Corrigan: boy, i sure would love it if the people on the other side of this aisle would get into this mil - lennium, let alone this decade. in 2007 n ew Democrats introduced legislation to remove an expiry date from gift cards. u nder pressure, this b.c . l iberal government eventually passed a watered-down piece of legislation

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, May 3, 2011 6537 with a $1.2-million-wide loophole that b.c . f erries has exploited. if the Minister of t ransportation won't stand up for british c olumbians, will the Solicitor General step in and force b.c. f erries to either honour the prepaid cards or pay back the customers? Hon B.

Lekstrom: i do understand why the mem - ber would not want to go back to the 1990s. n o british c olumbians do. [1425] We actually, obviously, recognize — as does the in - dependent ferries commissioner — that this is an issue. h e has made a commitment that he is going to look into it, review this issue. i'm looking forward to the results — as, i'm sure, the member is, and the member that asked the question. i'm looking forward to the results of that, and we will see what happens. b.c. ferrieS S er Vice Mo Del C. Trevena: Mr.

Speaker, 70 percent of british c olumbians reject the way this government privatized our ferries, and they want the government to return them to our public hands. t o the Minister of t ransportation: does he support the model for b.c. f erries as set down in the c oastal f erry a ct? Hon. B. Lekstrom: it's interesting to note, when you look at customer satisfaction, that it's at an all-time high today. i don't hear issues regarding the service. it was clear, obviously, when the price increase under Pt 3 came out, it was an issue. The people raised their concerns.

Whether it be a 4 percent or an 8.23 percent increase, it obviously is a concern. i share that concern. i know the commissioner today is hearing from the people of british c olumbia about what their ideas are, what they would think is an acceptable increase. When they talk about that, the commissioner will then take that information, put together his final report and re - port back to british c olumbians. i'm looking forward to that.

We have a world-class ferry system, one that provides an incredible level of service to the people it serves. c an it get better? e verything we do in our day-to-day lives can get better, Member, and i'm going to work hard as your Minister of t ransportation to ensure that that happens. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. C.

Trevena: i actually asked the minister whether he supports the model for b.c. f erries under the c oastal f erry a ct, and i'm assuming his long-winded answer about the ridiculous increases in fares means that yes, he does. but i would just like to explore it a little more, as - suming that the minister really does agree with this.

The minister had a one-on-one meeting with c omox- Strathcona regional district director Jim a bram, and Mr. a bram wrote that the minister supports having the ferries under highways and that the minister's only chal- lenge is convincing cabinet that the experiment with the b.c. f erry Services has failed and that it's time to fix it. So i would like to know what the minister thinks. Should our ferries be part of our highways system or not? Hon. B.

Lekstrom: i did have a good meeting with Jim, who's a long-time friend. i got to know Jim when i was the mayor of Dawson creek and even before that when i was a councillor. Jim actually had relayed his thoughts, saying it should be back under. i said: "That's one interesting point." i said: "i'm prepared to look at anything." [l aughter.] it's obviously humorous for the members across. i'm glad you're happy today. Quebec must be a highlight for you, i'm guessing. What we can tell the members…. o bviously, when i look at service levels, when i look at customer satis - faction levels…. is the model working?

The model is working, or those levels wouldn't be as high as they are today. a re increases a concern? increases are always a concern in our day-to-day lives, whether we're talking ferry fares or anything else. i do want to remind the member — and this is some - thing i'm sure the other side has forgotten — that between 1991 and 1999, there was a reason for a 70 per- cent increase in the ferry rates during that time. f or you to stand there and laugh and shrug it off and hope the public forgets that, it doesn't work. The reality is that we have a world-class system.

We have invested in new boats, in new docks; we continue to invest. b.c . f erries continues to invest in that, Member, and we are going to ensure that we continue to have the best ferry system in the world. [end of question period.] Motions Without Notice aPPoint Ment of a SSiStant De Put Y SPeaker J. Horgan: by leave, i move, seconded by the mem - ber for f ort l angley–a ldergrove electoral district, that Dawn black, member for n ew Westminster electoral district, be appointed a ssistant Deputy Speaker for this session of the l egislative a ssembly. Motion approved. [1430] M.

Mungall: i rise to present a petition.

british c olumbia Debates6538 t uesday, May 3, 2011 Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Petitions M. Mungall: i have a petition here from 544 residents of the creston Valley regarding u rmston creek. They're looking for the provincial government to cancel the conditional water licence for industrial bottle sales on that creek and also to conduct an environmental assess - ment of this community watershed prior to the issuance of any future large volume water licences. Tabling Documents Hon. B.

Penner: i have the honour to present the following reports: the final report of the 2010 british c olumbia Judges c ompensation c ommission and the final report of the 2010 british c olumbia Judicial Justices of the Peace c ompensation c ommission. i'm also obliged to make some observations about the reports, concerning the compensation of provincial court judges and judicial justices. in particular, under

section 6(1) of the Judicial c ompensation a ct… interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. B. Penner: …when these reports are tabled.... i'm obliged to advise the assembly that pursuant to sec - tion 6(3) of the act, if the assembly does not resolve to reject any recommendations contained in the reports within the timelines established by the act, then the judges and judicial justices will receive the salaries and benefits as recommended in the respective reports. i wish to further advise members that the government is duly considering the reports at this time. Orders of the Day Hon. R.

Coleman: in this h ouse we will be doing second reading of bill 4, intituled the h armonized Sales t ax (hS

t) initiative Vote and r eferendum a ct; and in

section a, in the Douglas fir c ommittee r oom, we will be doing the estimates of the Ministry of a boriginal r elations and r econciliation. Second Reading of Bills bill 4 — har Moni Ze D Sale S ta X (h St ) initiati Ve Vote an D referen Du M act Hon. B. Penner: i move that bill 4, the h armonized Sales t ax (hS

t) initiative Vote and r eferendum a ct, be read now a second time. This act follows through on the government's com - mitment to resolve the question of the harmonized sales tax more quickly and efficiently. a s members will already know, the government has ordered a referen - dum on the h St to be held under the r eferendum a ct. That referendum will take place beginning next month, with ballots being mailed to all registered voters start - ing the week of June 13.

Voters will have a number of weeks to receive their ballots and consider their votes before returning them to e lections b.c . i pause here to note that those ballots must be received back by e lections b.c . not later than 4:30 p.m. on July 22. That doesn't mean putting them in the mail on that day.

That means they must be put in the mail sufficiently in advance so that they're received by e lections b.c . by July 22. f inal results should be known in early a ugust. u sing a mail-in ballot means a substantial cost sav - ings compared to an in-person initiative vote, which is what would have been required under the r ecall and initiative a ct.

The cost of the mail-in ballot is estimated at about $12 million, compared to the $30 million it would have cost to have an in-person initiative vote. a lso, under the r eferendum a ct the threshold is a simple majority, unlike the higher threshold that is re - quired for an initiative vote. This follows through on government's commitment last fall to abide by the wishes of a simple majority of british c olumbians as ex- pressed through a referendum.

The bill itself is straightforward. it cancels the initia - tive vote that is currently required under the r ecall and initiative a ct on the hS t petition and draft bill that was submitted to the c hief e lectoral officer last September. f or certainty, the bill also confirms that the r ecall and initiative a ct does not apply to the referendum that is being held on the hS t question. i look forward to comments from other members. B.

Ralston: i rise to address this bill on behalf of the official opposition. [l. r eid in the chair.] The bill arises out of the changes that took place when the previous Premier decided that the referendum would proceed under the r eferendum a ct rather than under the r ecall and initiative a ct. it revises

section 13 of the r ecall and initiative a ct, which sets out the pro - cedure for an initiative vote, as it's called, rather than a referendum, following upon the successful receipt and certification of a petition. [1435] The initiative vote is set out in

section 13, requiring the c hief e lectoral officer to hold an initiative vote. it also goes on to say at

section 13(3) that "the regulations may (

a) specify what provisions of the e lection a ct apply,

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, May 3, 2011 6539 and (

b) adapt any of the provisions of the e lection a ct with changes that the regulations may provide." The date is set by

section 14: "i f required, initiative votes must be held on September 28, 1996 and on the last Saturday of September every third year after that date." That's how we came to the date that was referred to previously, the date in September of this year. n ow, the amendment does away with the requirement to have a vote at that time, and the referendum will pro- ceed under the provisions of the r eferendum a ct.

The r eferendum a ct is a very brief document. it gives the l ieutenant-Governor-in-c ouncil — that is, the cab - inet — the opportunity to make regulations that govern the operation of the referendum. i'm quoting from sec - tion 6: "The l ieutenant Governor in c ouncil may make regulations (

a) providing that specified provisions of the e lection a ct apply to and in relation to a referen - dum under this a ct, and (

b) adapting any provisions of that a ct with changes that the l ieutenant Governor in c ouncil considers appropriate." There's a wide possibility there to adapt provisions of the e lection a ct. i'll be referring to the most notable decision in the regulations that have been put forward, which thus far appear to be the only regulations that are going to be put forward, in the sense that there's no registration required of third parties — that is, people other than the government and the opposition or the proponents — and there's no restriction on the dollar amount that they might spend. before i get to that….

That is a very significant aspect of the way in which this referendum will be conducted as opposed to the r ecall and initiative a ct, where there was a much more restrictive approach to those provi - sions. l et's first, if i might, deal with the very issue of the referendum. There was a considerable debate in the province, broadly speaking, where many people, including many affected businesses, thought that to wait until September for a referendum was…. The uncertainty that that engendered was unfairly damaging their business — par- ticularly in the home-building sector, but other sectors of the economy.

Then because of that debate and because of that public pressure, and i think because of the sheer logic of the position, there was discussion about moving the date forward — in other words, into June. in fact, the new leader of the l iberal Party, although she did slightly deviate from that position at first….

She first proposed cancelling the referendum in favour of a free vote here in the l egislature, a position that i think it would be fair to say was rejected, if not ridiculed, by even fellow l iberal leadership candidates. a fter putting forward that position and that flopping, falling on its face, she then moved to the position that the referendum be held on June 24.

This was part of the public discussion. it was part of the l iberal leader - ship debate between leadership candidates, and that became her position. indeed, in her policy book she stated that "our government will proceed with a June referendum on the hS t . The date for the referendum should be June 24." it is notable that in none of the discussion, none of the material, none of the media interviews, none of the cam- paign material — indeed, nowhere — was it ever said that it would be a mail referendum with the results com- ing not in June but in a ugust. That's a significant shift in the position.

That was never set forward anywhere as part of the public record at any time. [1440] Significantly, as well, the Premier, Ms. c lark, also said in her material: "The referendum will be conducted in the same manner as a provincial election." i'm reading from her policy book, page 11. "The referendum will be con - ducted in the same manner as a provincial election." ordinarily — and i don't think one would dispute this — as a simple matter of fact, the elections provin - cially are not conducted by a mail ballot.

That may be fine for certain forms of society elections or credit union elections, but they're not conducted by a mail-in ballot. Y et the Premier apparently decided that this would be conducted as a mail-in ballot.

That promise, set out in her policy book, was prob - ably broken relatively quickly, because there's no way in which one would construe this mail-in ballot as conducting a referendum in the same manner as a prov- incial election. h er course on this matter has been somewhat haphaz- ard — a stab at a vote in the h ouse and no referendum, a promise to have the referendum conducted in the same manner as a provincial election and then resorting to a mail-in ballot, breaking her word on that. That's where we have got to at this point.

We've now had a sense of how this referendum cam - paign will be conducted. a s i said, significantly under the r ecall and initiative a ct — and this would be also the case if one is talking about conducting it in the same manner as a provincial election; her words, not mine — there would be limits on spending by third parties. indeed, that is the case, and i'll get to the court case that decided this issue not too long ago. u nder the r ecall and initiative a ct, proponents and opponents must register, have a financial agent, disclose contribution information 90 days after the referendum, comply with limits on anonymous contributions, com - ply with expense limits. a dvertisers must be registered, disclose advertising expenses, comply with a $5,000 limit for third-party advertisers and identify the spon - sor in the ad.

Significantly, this referendum…. Despite the power vested in the cabinet to make those regulations — be - cause the r eferendum a ct gives the cabinet the power to do that, and indeed, they've already promulgated some fairly routine regulations taken from the e lection a ct

british c olumbia Debates6540 t uesday, May 3, 2011 about the ballot and timing and various other eligibil - ity issues, a typical election process — the government has declined to issue any direction whatsoever on cam - paign finance. So we have a leadership candidate — then a leadership candidate, now a Premier — say that the referendum will be conducted in the same manner as a provincial election yet no limit whatsoever on third- party spending.

That is a significant departure from the standards that one would expect in a provincial elec - tion. c learly, there's a design in that. i can't imagine that this is accidental, but that's the manner in which this is going to proceed. n ow, one has to think back to 2008. h ere in this chamber the government — the then a ttorney General, former c ourt of a ppeal Judge Mr.

Justice o ppal — put forward a bill to limit third-party spending not simply during the 28 days from which the date between the election and the time the election is called but extending back 120 days from the date on which the election writ would be issued. [1445] That was debated.

During the course of the debate the proposed restriction was amended and reduced to 60 days, and it was vigorously defended here in the chamber — about the influence, the effect of third-party advertising on democratic process. if i might, i'd like to quote the then a ttorney General, Mr. o ppal, on May 5, 2008: "These limits mirror those contained in the c anada e lections a ct.

We believe these limits are fair and reasonable and will allow third parties to participate in the electoral process without having a disproportionate influence over election outcomes. a gain, an important reason for reintroducing spending limits is the effect that set election dates have on the nature of political campaigns in british c olumbia. "a s well, in the Supreme c ourt of c anada, the h on. Mr.

Justice Michel bastarache, in upholding third-party campaign spending, wrote: 'Without the limits'" — this is not some wild n DP theorist or even an Mla here; this is a member of the Supreme c ourt of c anada who's saying this — "'a few wealthy groups could drown out others in debates on important political issues.' We agree with that" — to resume quoting Mr.

Justice o ppal, as he was at one point, then the a ttorney General — "and that is why we are set - ting reasonable limits on what third parties can spend." This was in defence of a limit of restricting third-party spending 60 days prior to the issuing of the writ. That ultimately went to the Supreme c ourt and was struck down, but the limit on third-party advertising during the 28 days prior to the election was not challenged and remains in force.

That was the balancing act that was struck by the Supreme c ourt in its earlier decision, that there could be fewer limits or no limits prior to the issu- ing of the writ, but during the formal campaign, in order to ensure that a few wealthy groups don't drown out others in debates on important political issues, there be limits on campaign spending.

This appears to be a very commonsense decision. i think it would pass the head nod test, as sometimes people call it, where people sitting around, either at a workplace or at a coffee shop, think there should be some limit on spending in the process of a referendum so that some wealthy groups can't drown out others, to quote Mr. Justice bastarache. i think most people would agree with that. Y et this government has chosen to put absolutely no limits on third-party spending — none whatsoever. That really, for most people, causes real concern.

We have the Minister of finance, who has fashioned himself as a neu- tral arbiter in this process, so he would have us believe, yet third parties will be out there able to spend as much as they want without any restriction, even the kind of re- strictions that were in the recall and initiative a ct. one can well imagine why there were certain reasons to move for the referendum. u nder the r eferendum a ct, the threshold is different. but an unintended conse- quence, if one is charitable, or an intended consequence, if one is not, is that these restrictions on third-party spending no longer exist in this referendum.

That is of concern to most british c olumbians — about the fair - ness of the referendum process when there is no limit on third-party spending. it appears that there's no intention to change that. We're well down the road, although i suppose given that we are at the end of a pril, it would still be open to the government, by order-in-council…. That is, the cabinet could still decide, under the r eferendum a ct, to put some reasonable limits on third-party spending.

We're not asking for a ban — i don't think anyone is asking for a ban — but some reasonable limits, such as those in the r ecall and initiative a ct. but i don't expect we'll hear that at all. in what appears to be a very routine bill, a change that's required to remove the necessity for the c hief e lectoral officer to conduct a referendum in September since one is being conducted by mail ballot beginning in June with results in a ugust, we have some very different results being produced. [1450] if i might say, the new Premier, despite her public statement that the referendum would be conducted in the same manner as a provincial election, has broken that promise in two significant ways. one, it will be a mail-in ballot, which is certainly not the way in which a provincial election is conducted, and secondly, there will be no limits whatsoever at any point in the process on third-party spending.

That, i suppose, is the damp clarion call of the new order across the way — two broken promises, a signifi - cant deviation within months of issuing her statement as a prospective candidate for the leadership of her party. it's a fairly dismal start for sure and of significant pub - lic concern to british c olumbians. So with those brief comments, Madam Speaker, i'll resume my place and turn over the floor to other speakers.

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, May 3, 2011 6541 D. Donaldson: h on. Speaker, thank you for the op - portunity to speak to bill 4, the h armonized Sales t ax initiative Vote and r eferendum a ct. i'd like to take a few moments to talk to this bill, and my comments will cen- tre on fairness and trust. i have a suggestion. i always like offering suggestions to the government to improve bills. So i'm going to offer a suggestion, and then i'm go- ing to also provide a comment around the bill. My suggestion is around fairness. The fairness in - volves the spending on the campaigns that will result from this bill.

We recently had the finance Minister an - nounce the government will be spending $1.7 million of taxpayers' money over the next couple of months on hS t information. That doesn't actually even include the taxpayer-funded advertising campaign, the costs of which still haven't been worked out. but in regards to this money, the Premier, Premier c lark, talked during her campaign…. interjection. D.

Donaldson: The Premier talked previously about "equal funding to both sides of the question." l et's have a look at that $1.7 million. o ut of that money, $250,000 is allotted to the no side on the hS t on this referen - dum question. So much for the Premier's promise back in f ebruary committing to equal funding to both sides of the question. o ut of $1.7 million, $250,000 is allotted to the no side.

So i would say, as a question of fairness, that doesn't equal fairness in most people's minds. a s well as the question of fairness, the third party, which my colleague has described very well previous to my speaking here…. There are no limits in this bill, bill 4, regarding third-party spending. u nlike in the r ecall and initiative a ct, there was potential for limits to be placed on third-party spending. What does this mean? Well, the big winners will be those who are in favour of the hS t . Groups. What are these groups? We know a few of the groups who have come out of the woodwork.

These were the groups like the independent c ontractors and businesses a ssoci- ation and the industry-funded c oast f orest Products a ssociation. They're the same set of groups that went to court last July to try to prevent the h St initiative from seeing the light of day. They, i believe, were trying to use constitu - tional arguments to prevent the initiative question from getting out there, and that didn't work out very well. [1455] The courts rejected the arguments of these groups. a s a result and in the end, the anti-hS t petition gathered more than 700,000 signatures and was allowed to stand.

Going back again to third-party spending and what it all actually means, it turns out that reporting during the court case that these groups initiated identified that the groups had donated more than $160,000 to the b.c. l iberal Party. i suppose that by going to court they were just trying to get value for their money, since the govern- ment had botched the job of delivering the hS t in the first place for them.

That's one thing about fairness in third-party spending. a gain, it's worth repeating the quote that my hon. col- league, has already entered into Hansard. i think it's worth reporting because it does come from a Supreme c ourt justice, Mr. Justice bastarache, who said, in re - gard to third-party spending: "Without the limits, a few wealthy groups could drown out others in debates on important political issues." of course, as we've heard, the former a ttorney General of this government, the hon. Wally o ppal, agreed with that statement.

So we have a situation where the Premier has said that we want equal funding to both sides of the ques - tion. Most people would think: "Well, that means pretty well equal funding to both sides of the question, whether you're in favour of the hS t or whether you reject the hS t ." We know that 700,000 people have already signed, saying they reject the hS t . but equal funding to both sides of the question, without third-party spending lim - its, without the transparency around that…. i understand o pen Government is now part of a min- istry on the other side of this floor.

Y ou know, it would be nice to see. if we're talking about open government, then we should have transparency about third-party spending on the hS t referendum. So again, the Premier said, in her run-up to becoming the Premier…. She urged factual information, not a sell job in relation to the h St . Well, it's hard to know if you're going to get factual information from one side that has no spending limits.

The other side has not the same abil- ity to raise dollars with regards to the h St . f or a matter of fairness, i would suggest bill 4 goes and looks at the r ecall and initiative a ct and looks at third- party spending and looks at imposing some reasonable limits on what third-party spending could be to make it fair for both sides and to back up the Premier's words on equal funding to both sides of the question. My second point i'd like to make, hon. Speaker, is a comment around trust. i believe that when a person hold- ing a position of Premier speaks, people believe them and trust what they have to say.

Premier c lark said, and this is a quote at her swearing in: "We're going to have a referen- dum on June 24" — a referendum on June 24. Well, most people in the province, i believe, when they heard those words, would think: "o kay, whether i'm for or against the hS t , i'm going to have my ability to vote on June 24 on a referendum on whether to accept or re- ject the hS t ." That's something that they weren't able to do before the last provincial election because, appar - ently, the government hadn't made up their mind — or perhaps they did — before the last provincial election around the hS t .

british c olumbia Debates6542 t uesday, May 3, 2011 a nyway, here we are, June 24. Premier says we're go - ing to have a referendum on June 24. What's transpired since then? Since then we now have a mail-in system. The way e lections b.c. has laid it out — the mail-in system was ad- vocated and put in place by this government, with Premier c lark at the head of it — there are going to be ballots sent out June 13. h opefully, they say, by June 24 most people will have received those ballots. by July 8….

That's the last day for unregistered voters to request a ballot from e lections b.c . a nd then lo and behold, July 22 is the final deadline for completed ballots to be received by elections b.c. That's a long ways from having your say on a refer - endum on June 24, something the Premier promised shortly after being sworn in. We had advocated for the referendum date being moved up, and it was good to see that the government took our suggestion on that.

They tried to move it up. it was originally set for September 24. [1500] The reason for that — and we heard this on the finance c ommittee over and over again, with groups, business groups, presenting — is that the uncertainty is creating a lot of distress. The uncertainty creates a lot of distress in the business community around the hS t . So moving it up would help alleviate that, be better for our economy — moving up the referendum.

Well, with this mail-in ballot system that the Premier has now put in place, it's going to result in only having the final vote on the referendum known several weeks before the original September 24 date. it really doesn't move up the uncertainty question to any great degree, and i would say definitely does not fall within what was intended when the Premier said: "We're going to have a referendum on June 24." The ballots won't be finally completed and counted. They will be completed by July 22. but several weeks to count and verify, and we'll know the result in a ugust. a gain, it's a matter of trust, hon.

Speaker. if you can't trust the words, "We're going to have a referendum on June 24" — when actually the results won't be known and the date isn't until July 22; the results known in a ugust — then i think that is a bit of a sad commentary on the words of the Premier coming out. i'll wrap up by saying my two comments on this are around fairness and trust on bill 4. f airness around third- party spending limits. if the government wishes to uphold their words around transparency and open government, then i suggest that reasonable third-party spending lim- its be instituted on the referendum question.

Then on trust, well, we have a mail-in ballot system that runs counter to what appears the words of the Premier were saying: "We're going to have a referendum on June 24." i think that's a rather sad start to what the Premier has said is going to be a more trustworthy gov - ernment on this other side. Thank you very much for allowing me some time to talk to bill 4, hon. Speaker. i'll now take my seat and al - low my colleague to begin. S. Simpson: We're here debating bill 4. bill 4 is the h armonized Sales t ax (hS

t) initiative Vote and r eferendum a ct. h on. Speaker, the reason for this bill is to make changes, as has been noted by previous speakers, to what had originally been intended under the r ecall and initiative a ct to have a vote on September 24 in regard to the hS t , to make a determination about british c olumbia's views on the h St and about its future.

The decision has been made by the government, by the Premier to move that up slightly and to change the enabling legislation from the r ecall and initiative a ct to the r eferendum a ct and in doing that commence this action in mid-June resulting in sometime in a ugust us getting a result from this vote. The other important aspect of this, i think, as has been pointed out, is that we are moving from what was going to be a more conventional ballot, much like an election. That's what the Premier told us we were doing.

That's what originally had been intended, but that's now been changed to a mail ballot, and we'll get to see what the circumstances of that are with that mail ballot. but it clearly is a different circumstance from what we had originally anticipated would occur. n ow, i think it's important that as we move forward that people be reminded as to why it is that we're in this situation at all — that we're in fact having this vote at all. i think it's important. Why did we have a September 24 date at all? What created the circumstances that re - quired that?

What's created the circumstances that now have us moving back to a mail ballot in June? Well, just in case people need to be reminded, prior to the last election, of course, the government told us on numerous occasions that they were opposed to the hS t and a harmonized sales tax and were supportive of the PSt -GSt combination as it was. We were told that continually. We, of course, know that almost immediately following the 2009 election, the government announced its intention to introduce a harmonized sales tax. They brought that forward.

They rushed it through. [1505] it would have proceeded if it wasn't for people at the grass roots, for the official opposition, for many busi - ness people and community interests, particularly small business people, who stood up and said: "This is wrong. The way you've done this is wrong. it shouldn't proceed." a nd of course, for many consumers, at the point they realized that essentially what this was, a $1.9 billion tax shift from large business to consumers, they said that was wrong too.

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, May 3, 2011 6543 f rom a government that continually talks about tax cuts, here they are putting $2 billion of additional taxes on consumers. That's quite a tax cut — $2 billion of addi- tional taxes on the backs of consumers. a nd of course, we know that the community at the grass-roots level rose up.

People came together across the political spec - trum and succeeded with the initiative that forced, in fact, the decision to move forward with the September 24 vote that now has, with this legislation, been moved to be a mail ballot under the r eferendum a ct to pro - ceed in June. So what is the state of this? What is the situation? n ow, as this moves forward, of course, as we always know with these situations, the devil is always in the details.

The details around this really reflect on the ques- tion about what are the circumstances that are going to be in play as this moves forward. a s some of my col - leagues have said, the government has announced about $1.7 million of spending that we know about that will be put forward. That spending will include $250,000 for a yes side and $250,000 for a no side. it also includes about a half- million dollars for educational institutions to do some work around this. We don't know what that means.

We don't know who's going to be involved in that, how they balance the academia of that. but that's good. e ducational institutions — hopefully, they'll do a good job in terms of hosting some forums. That's not a bad way to spend some money to have a discussion around this. Then there's $700 million for the government to edu - cate us. This is a government that hardly has a balanced view of this tax on consumers and small business, on working families and small business — a $1.9 billion tax on working families and small business.

This is a govern- ment that hardly has a balanced view of this, so it will be pretty interesting to see how this $700,000 gets spent. of course, on top of that, hon. Speaker, we're not sure whether that's all the spending. The finance Minister has been questioned in question period about whether there will be additional spending in relation to this. The finance Minister hasn't quite given us an answer to those questions yet, but we might try again to see if we can get that answer again before we're done here on the second of June.

We might try, because the finance Minister doesn't seem to want to tell us what his plans really are as to how he's going to spend money on this. That's what's happening with that piece. but that may not be the most concerning piece of this. The no limits — the lack of any limit on third-party spending — may be the biggest concern of all.

The reality is this. if you say to me as the business community, "i'm about prepared to give you $1.9 bil - lion a year in tax breaks in perpetuity every year," then does it seem like it might be a good idea for me to drop a few million dollars to convince the people of british c olumbia somehow that them paying this tax rather than the corporations paying it is a good idea? Just might be a good business investment for big business to do that. n ow, i don't have any problem with business deciding that they're going to look after their interest.

My concern comes when this government decides to be blatantly un- fair and to bias this vote by in fact encouraging that and creating a circumstance that encourages business to do exactly that. i expect business to look after their inter - ests, but i expect the government to look after british c olumbians' interest, and you're not doing that. That's the problem we have. We have a government that's saying to business: "We don't have the courage as a government to stand up and do what we want to do, so you do it for us because you're the beneficiary.

Y ou're the big beneficiary, and we're not sure how to explain to british c olumbians that a $2 billion tax increase is good for them, so you go explain it to them. Then we'll all be good. a nd we'll collect your campaign donation before the next election, thank you very much." We see all of these issues weave together. [1510] t oday, of course, we're going to deal with this bill. We're going to pass this bill. but the story isn't this piece of legislation.

The story is everything that has come and brought us to this time and this place. it is the duplicity of the government in regard to the issue of the hS t around the election and what they said the day before and what they said the day after. it is the performance of the government in trying to convince british c olumbians that increasing their taxes by $2 bil- lion without one cent of additional funding for services is good for them. it's about them paying off their friends who are the beneficiaries of that without producing one single piece of credible evidence that it actually creates jobs and investment.

That's the situation we're in, but we will move for - ward. i will say to the government that you might want it load up the money on the corporate side to fight this and to try to promote this tax. Y ou might want to use the government money that you can slide into advertis - ing and other manipulation to fight this, to promote this tax. The reality is this. The people of british c olumbia know what this is all about. They know this tax is bad for the province. it's bad for the people of british c olumbia, and it's bad for this province in its entirety.

That's what british c olumbians know, and they're not going to buy a sell job from the b.c. l iberals to change that. So do whatever you choose to do. Manipulate it however you choose to manipulate it. a t the end of the day, come a ugust, we will see this tax defeated in british c olumbia, and there will be fairness for british c olumbians again when you stop the tax breaks, unfair tax breaks, at the ex- pense of citizens. That's what we're facing. i look forward to the defeat of this tax come a ugust, when we see that. i look forward to the justifications

british c olumbia Debates6544 t uesday, May 3, 2011 of the smiling Minister of finance when he comes to try to defend this tax over the next coming weeks. The reality is this; it's a bad tax. it's on the backs of british c olumbians. it doesn't do anything for british c olumbians. They know that. e verybody in this prov - ince knows that. They'll defeat the tax. it will be a good day for british c olumbia. B.

Simpson: Madam Speaker, i'm happy to see the advancement of the referendum on the hS t and glad that the government is following through with the pre - vious Premier's commitment to hold it by way of simple majority. [applause.] it seems like it might be easy to get applause today. i think it's important that there is an admission that this has been a debacle. it's been a debacle right from the get-go. Various members of the other side, on the government side, have admitted that.

They've admitted it publicly. it is a necessary step for british c olumbia to get this be- hind us as soon as possible, and it's necessary that for the people who expressed their democratic right in the in - itiative process, their demand is actually honoured. That's mostly what i want to speak to today: whether or not this bill honours their demand to have a voice or whether there's a trap in this bill that needs to be addressed. The second

part is, of course, that the business and investment community needs to be clear about the fu - ture of the hS t . i know that there are lots of folks out there…. i've had discussions with the real estate com - munity, where there are strange aspects of this tax that are not being resolved because people are uncertain as to the future of the tax. n ow, i was threatened with recall as a result of the hS t , not because of some of my political machinations over the last little while.

The conversation went some - thing like this. i was meeting with the initiative group in the Quesnel area about the successful initiative, and one of the individuals put a demand on me that i come down here as a legislator and that i force the Premier to repeal the hS t in the h ouse and that i vote very strongly in fa- vour of repealing the hS t . [1515] My response to that person was, one: "Good luck with that. l et me educate you about being an opposition member in a h ouse." but secondly, it was that i have a broader obligation as an Mla than just the people who happen to be sitting with me at that time. h e came back at me: "Well, you're responsible to me. i voted for you, so you will do as i tell you." i said: "Well, let's go up to West f raser Mills and sit and have a conversation with the chairman and board of West f raser Mills. l et's go and have a meeting with the b.c. c attlemen's a ssociation or the Quesnel c attlemen's a ssociation. l et's go and have conversations with the lo- cal chamber of commerce, because their advice to me is contrary to your advice." i think one of the problems we have in this h ouse is the polarization of debate.

The ideological and parti - san nature of the debate makes issues appear as if they are black and white when, in the vast majority of cases, they're shades of grey. it is without question that this tax shifts a tax burden from large business, in particular, onto the backs of con- sumers.

That's not questioned, and i don't think that the government would continue that argument, although they tried it earlier on. but now that that tax exists, it's not a simple matter, as i told this individual, of flicking a switch and making it disappear and going back to a PSt -GSt world without some clarity on the part of gov - ernment as to what that unwinding means. Does it mean punitive measures on the part of the federal government? if so, how will the provincial govern- ment absorb that?

Does it mean that if we go back to PSt that PSt will have to be increased for a period of time in order to deal with the charges associated with unwinding this? Does it mean a potential increase in personal in - come tax? What does it mean to unwind this tax? i'm disappointed, in some respects, in the government for not providing that kind of information as clearly as i think the electorate needs to understand how to vote on this initiative when it is actually held.

The government is engaged in a process that i do think, and i agree with opposition members, has a sense of be - ing untoward. i don't believe the government should be holding its t alking t ax town halls, or whatever they want to call them, funding agencies to basically go out and say, according to the ministers: "The tax is good. h ow do we improve it?" That's an interference in this democratic process, an interference by government to make a case for a tax that the public has said they don't want but want a voice on the future of.

So i do think that's unfair. i think the fairest thing that the government could have done is simply fund the yes and noes and constrain all other activities other than releasing the independent panel report. i haven't been in my office this afternoon, but it still hasn't been released, and we were promised we would see that independent panel report after the federal election.

So a fairer process would be to release the independent panel report, fund the yes and no, and get out of the way and allow british c olumbians to make that determination in that vote. but i also think there's a broader issue, and i won't get into it much because of time.

The issue of talking taxes with british c olumbians only about the hS t misses a critical point, in my estimation. it's actually in today's budget documents, where the budget documents indi - cate the government is going to have to work very, very hard in order to meet its objectives to have a balanced budget in 2013-2014. if we're going to go out and talk taxes with british c olumbians, we should talk to british c olumbians

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, May 3, 2011 6545 about taxes and revenue writ large, against the backdrop of demands on public services. The member for Juan de f uca, during the leadership event for the nDP , indi- cated that we need a fair tax commission of some kind. i would agree to that. We need to actually, all together, embrace this issue of taxation and public services. The government is wasting a whole bunch of money mak - ing a justification for hS t when we could better use that money to have the broader tax debate.

My final comment and the substantive aspect of what i have to offer to this debate is a concern i have about the structure. i'm of mixed minds relative to a mail-in ballot or a day-of ballot and walking into a ballot box. but we're on this path. it's the path in the bill to hold a mail-in ballot under the auspices of the r eferendum a ct. [1520] There's one fly in the ointment, and that is that c anada Post has a 97 percent strike mandate that could be initiated at some point during this referendum pro - cess. They are in negotiations.

My understanding is that e lections b.c. is fully aware of this situation and has been talking to c anada Post, but it is outside the con - trol of e lections b.c., outside the control of government. a s a consequence, this bill does something that i think is problematic. The bill cancels the initiative, but it also cancels the end date of September 24 to get this thing resolved, by doing so.

We're now in a situation where around June 13 or so the mail ballots are going to start going out, and they have until July 22. if at any point during that time per - iod there is an interruption in mail service, then i'm concerned we are setting ourselves up for legal action against the outcome of the referendum. if people claim that as a result of an interruption in the mail service they did not have an opportunity to exercise their rights in this referendum, then i think we have created a situa- tion where now we have a litigation potential against the referendum. That's one issue i'm concerned about.

The second is if….

There's a clause in the act that allows e lections b.c., through the c hief e lectoral officer, to take into con - sideration emergency circumstances, adjust the date in accordance and then make a case later to the l egislature by way of a report on why the date was shifted. but if you think about the timing of this, if something happens in that June window and the e lections b.c. c hief e lectoral officer decides that that's not a good window because there may be a strike, then we're into summer, and holding a mail-in referendum in summer, i think, would not be a fair way to get the voice of the people, which then takes us to the fall.

What's happening is there's no compunction for the government to get this thing done, so i've tabled an amendment. i will speak to it tomorrow. i've got some questions for the minister in third reading about whether or not the government can provide to this h ouse a con- tingency plan in their dialogue with e lections b.c. so that we know that this hS t issue will be resolved once and for all by September 24 and won't be dragged out any further than that.

My recommendation is that if we're not sure about that, then we should actually repeal this bill on June 24 so we've got the 90 days to give notice to hold a ref - erendum on September 24. if we think we're putting ourselves in a position where we're going to have a ref - erendum event that litigation can be put against because of an interruption from the mail service, then i believe that we have to have a fail-safe, and there's no fail-safe in the act as it is just now. f inally, i would like to see all M la s engaged in this and engaged in making sure we have an informed debate. i would hope that the government, in conjunc - tion with e lections b.c ., would make sure that all of our constituency assistants are fully educated about how this mail-in ballot is going to happen, that they are given an information package — because we're go - ing to get the calls — and that we will be able to give informed advice to individuals about how to get pack - ages, when to mail them in and all of the things that are going to happen as a result of people wanting to par - ticipate in this process. but i do hope the government will bring forward some sense of a contingency plan in the event that this mail-in ballot is interrupted by a mail strike.

M. Sather: it is indeed my pleasure to respond to bill 4, h armonized Sales t ax (hS

t) initiative Vote and r eferendum a ct. Well, it definitely has been a long, strange trip with the hS t and continues to be. The people of british c olumbia were led to believe — more correctly, misled — that there wasn't going to be any hS t , and then we saw the contortions the government went through to try to explain it. [1525] but as we move on to this phase of this fiasco, cer - tainly, we have to look to what c hristy c lark, the current Premier of this province, has to say about it.

This is what she said just last year: "it's an insult to british c olumbians for the government to, first of all, have brought in the tax in what most of us regard as a very, very sneaky way and then refuse to bother explaining why they did it prop - erly. They can't even be bothered to mount a defence. a nd i think that's an insult." She went on to say that it seems impossible the tax wasn't contemplated before the spring ballot.

"i just don't think it's possible that that could be the case." There's a clear condemnation of the genesis of this whole thing from c hristy c lark, who is the current, al - beit absent, Premier of this province. There's a lot of explaining that needs to be done about this. n o doubt about it.

british c olumbia Debates6546 t uesday, May 3, 2011 The Premier herself, before she became Premier, had the idea: "Well, you know what?" She seemed to be quite anxious, quite hurried, to get rid of this whole affair. She said, "We'll just have everybody go back to the h ouse and revote it; we'll revote on the hS t ," although some of her colleagues had to then remind her: "Well, you know what?

We've already done that three times." So i don't know if there was a caucus revolt or what the dynamics of it were, but lo and behold, the Premier then decided: "Well, no, i guess maybe we won't have that vote just after the election that i had and when i get my members back into the h ouse, albeit very belatedly." So we went from there to a decision that she made to say that we will have the vote on June 24. We agreed to that, on this side of the h ouse. We thought it would be straightforward.

The Premier said that it will be held like an election. if you have an election, you have an election day, you vote, the votes are counted that night, and it's all over with. Then again, there was another twist and turn in the journey led by the erstwhile Premier. She said: "o h no, we're not going to do it that way after all. We're going to do a mail-in ballot." The mail-in ballot, as has been explained, will take place between June 23, with all the ballots having to be in by July 2, and will be counted sometime in a ugust.

So all of this contortion to move the date back from September to June — which is a good idea, given all of the uncertainty not only amongst business but also amongst consumers about whether or not to do their renovations now or whether or not to wait until after the hS t vote — is going to be i don't know what. They moved it back by a month, maybe — that is, assuming the postal strike doesn't get in the way, as the previous speaker just mentioned. interjection. M.

Sather: So it's a peculiar rendition of reality, and i know that the member for k amloops–South Thompson agrees with me wholeheartedly. it's good to see his sup - port again in this h ouse, Madam Speaker. The spending, however, is something else. r ight out of the hopper, there's $500,000 to be split between the yes and the no sides. Sounds pretty darn reason

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0503pm-12
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0503pm 12
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	d7bfcb28d9c26cfb4cbcc0f2d056ec24b160ce2a

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