British Columbia Hansard — Wednesday, May 7, 2014

20140507pm-Hansard-v12n3

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session, 40th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) THE HONOURABLE LINDA REID, SPEAKER ISSN 0709- 1281 (Print) ISSN 1499-2175 (Online) Wednesday, May 7, 2014 Aft ernoon Sitting Volume 12, Number 3

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Judith Guichon, OBC Second Session, 40th Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Linda Reid EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council .............................................................................................................. Hon. Christy Clark Deputy Premier and Minister of Natural Gas Development and Minister Responsible for Housing ......................Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ......................................................................................................... Hon. John Rustad Minister of Advanced Education ............................................................................................................................................ Hon. Amrik Virk Minister of Agriculture ........................................................................................................................................................ Hon.

Norm Letnick Minister of Children and Family Development ....................................................................................................... Hon. Stephanie Cadieux Minister of Community, Sport and Cultural Development ........................................................................................... Hon. Coralee Oakes Minister of Education ..................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Peter Fassbender Minister of Energy and Mines and Minister Responsible for Core Review .....................................................................Hon. Bill Bennett Minister of Environment ..........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Mary Polak Minister of Finance .................................................................................................................................................. Hon.

Michael de Jong, QC Minister of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations......................................................................................Hon. Steve Th omson Minister of Health ............................................................................................................................................................... Hon. Dr. Terry Lake Minister of International Trade and Minister Responsible for Asia Pacifi c Strategy and Multiculturalism ..................Hon.

Teresa Wat Minister of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training and Minister Responsible for Labour ...................................................Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of State for Tourism and Small Business ....................................................................................................Hon. Naomi Y amamoto Minister of Justice ...............................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Suzanne Anton Minister of Social Development and Social Innovation......................................................................................................Hon. Don McRae Minister of Technology, Innovation and Citizens' Services ................................................................................... Hon. Andrew Wilkinson Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure ......................................................................................................................Hon.

Todd Stone LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Offi cial Opposition ...................................................................................................................................................John Horgan Deputy Speaker .............................................................................................................................................................................Douglas Horne Assistant Deputy Speaker ...............................................................................................................................................................

Raj Chouhan Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ....................................................................................................................................... Marc Dalton Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ................................................................................................................................................... Craig James Deputy Clerk and Clerk of Committees .................................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sessional Law Clerk ...................................................................................................................................................Roderick MacArthur, QC Sergeant-at-Arms ................................................................................................................................................................................. Gary Lenz

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Anton, Hon. Suzanne (BC Liberal) .............................. Vancouver-Fraserview Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal).....................................................................Penticton Austin, Robin (NDP) ................................................................................ Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP) ....................................................................Surrey-Newton Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ............................................... Cariboo-Chilcotin Bennett, Hon.

Bill (BC Liberal) ...................................................Kootenay East Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) ................................................... Peace River South Bing, Dr. Doug (BC Liberal) ................................ Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Bond, Hon. Shirley (BC Liberal) ........................... Prince George–Valemount Cadieux, Hon. Stephanie (BC Liberal) ................................Surrey-Cloverdale Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) .................................Vancouver–West End Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................

Burnaby-Edmonds Clark, Hon. Christy (BC Liberal) ........................................ Westside-Kelowna Coleman, Hon. Rich (BC Liberal) ...........................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .............................................................. Kootenay West Corrigan, Kathy (NDP) ..................................................... Burnaby–Deer Lake Dalton, Marc (BC Liberal) ............................................. Maple Ridge–Mission Darcy, Judy (NDP) ..................................................................New Westminster de Jong, Hon.

Michael, QC (BC Liberal) .............................. Abbotsford West Dix, Adrian (NDP)............................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Donaldson, Doug (NDP) ......................................................................... Stikine Eby, David (NDP) ..........................................................Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (NDP) ................................................... Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ............................................................ Port Coquitlam Fassbender, Hon.

Peter (BC Liberal) ................................... Surrey-Fleetwood Fleming, Rob (NDP) .......................................................... Victoria–Swan Lake Foster, Eric (BC Liberal) .......................................................Vernon-Monashee Fraser, Scott (NDP) ............................................................Alberni–Pacifi c Rim Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) .............................................

Abbotsford-Mission Hamilton, Scott (BC Liberal) ...........................................................Delta North Hammell, Sue (NDP) .................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Heyman, George (NDP) .................................................... Vancouver-Fairview Hogg, Gordon (BC Liberal) ............................................... Surrey–White Rock Holman, Gary (NDP) .......................................Saanich North and the Islands Horgan, John (NDP) .......................................................................

Juan de Fuca Horne, Douglas (BC Liberal) ..............................Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) ....................................................Surrey-Panorama Huntington, Vicki (Ind.) ..................................................................Delta South James, Carole (NDP) .........................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................Esquimalt–Royal Roads Krog, Leonard Eugene (NDP) .............................................................

Nanaimo Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP) ........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal) ........................................................................ Shuswap Lake, Hon. Dr. Terry (BC Liberal) ....................Kamloops–North Th ompson Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) .........................................Boundary-Similkameen Lee, Richard T. (BC Liberal) ......................................................Burnaby North Letnick, Hon.

Norm (BC Liberal) ..............................Kelowna–Lake Country Macdonald, Norm (NDP) ....................................Columbia River–Revelstoke McRae, Hon. Don (BC Liberal) .................................................. Comox Valley Martin, John (BC Liberal) ..................................................................Chilliwack Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ..................................... Prince George–Mackenzie Mungall, Michelle (NDP) ..........................................................Nelson-Creston Oakes, Hon.

Coralee (BC Liberal) .............................................Cariboo North Pimm, Pat (BC Liberal) .........................................................Peace River North Plecas, Darryl (BC Liberal) ....................................................Abbotsford South Polak, Hon. Mary (BC Liberal) .............................................................. Langley Popham, Lana (NDP) ...................................................................Saanich South Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ................................................................ Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon.

Linda (BC Liberal) ..................................................Richmond East Reimer, Linda (BC Liberal) ........................................ Port Moody–Coquitlam Rice, Jennifer (NDP) ........................................................................North Coast Robinson, Selina (NDP) .............................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Routley, Bill (NDP) .................................................................. Cowichan Valley Routley, Doug (NDP) ............................................Nanaimo–North Cowichan Rustad, Hon.

John (BC Liberal) ................................................ Nechako Lakes Shin, Jane Jae Kyung (NDP) ...............................................Burnaby-Lougheed Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ................................... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Shane (NDP) ..................................................... Vancouver-Hastings Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal) ........................................ Parksville-Qualicum Stilwell, Dr. Moira (BC Liberal) ........................................ Vancouver-Langara Stone, Hon. Todd (BC Liberal) .........................

Kamloops–South Th ompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal) ..................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal) ...........................................Vancouver–False Creek Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal) ..................................... West Vancouver–Capilano Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ............................................................Fraser-Nicola Th omson, Hon. Steve (BC Liberal) .......................................Kelowna-Mission Th ornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) ..........................

North Vancouver–Seymour Th roness, Laurie (BC Liberal).................................................Chilliwack-Hope Trevena, Claire (NDP) .................................................................... North Island Virk, Hon. Amrik (BC Liberal) ............................................. Surrey-Tynehead Wat, Hon. Teresa (BC Liberal) .............................................. Richmond Centre Weaver, Dr. Andrew (Ind.) .......................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Wilkinson, Hon. Andrew (BC Liberal) ........................ Vancouver-Quilchena Y amamoto, Hon.

Naomi (BC Liberal) ................ North Vancouver–Lonsdale Y ap, John (BC Liberal) ......................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission ......................................................................Simon Gibson Abbotsford South ............................................................................Darryl Plecas Abbotsford West ...................................................... Hon. Michael de Jong, QC Alberni–Pacifi c Rim ..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Boundary-Similkameen ................................................................ Linda Larson Burnaby–Deer Lake ................................................................... Kathy Corrigan Burnaby-Edmonds ..........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed .............................................................Jane Jae Kyung Shin Burnaby North .............................................................................. Richard T.

Lee Cariboo-Chilcotin ........................................................................Donna Barnett Cariboo North .................................................................... Hon. Coralee Oakes Chilliwack ......................................................................................... John Martin Chilliwack-Hope ....................................................................... Laurie Th roness Columbia River–Revelstoke .................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley...........................................................................Hon.

Don McRae Coquitlam–Burke Mountain .....................................................Douglas Horne Coquitlam-Maillardville........................................................... Selina Robinson Cowichan Valley ................................................................................

Bill Routley Delta North ..................................................................................Scott Hamilton Delta South...............................................................................Vicki Huntington Esquimalt–Royal Roads .....................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ...................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Fraser-Nicola....................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Juan de Fuca .....................................................................................John Horgan Kamloops–North Th ompson ............................................ Hon. Dr. Terry Lake Kamloops–South Th ompson ..................................................Hon. Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country ..................................................... Hon. Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission .............................................................. Hon. Steve Th omson Kootenay East .......................................................................... Hon.

Bill Bennett Kootenay West ............................................................................ Katrine Conroy Langley.......................................................................................Hon. Mary Polak Maple Ridge–Mission ..................................................................... Marc Dalton Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ........................................................ Dr. Doug Bing Nanaimo ........................................................................... Leonard Eugene Krog Nanaimo–North Cowichan .........................................................

Doug Routley Nechako Lakes ........................................................................ Hon. John Rustad Nelson-Creston ........................................................................Michelle Mungall New Westminster ............................................................................... Judy Darcy North Coast......................................................................................Jennifer Rice North Island .................................................................................. Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale ........................................Hon.

Naomi Y amamoto North Vancouver–Seymour ..................................................Jane Th ornthwaite Oak Bay–Gordon Head ...................................................... Dr. Andrew Weaver Parksville-Qualicum .................................................................Michelle Stilwell Peace River North ................................................................................

Pat Pimm Peace River South ............................................................................Mike Bernier Penticton............................................................................................ Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam ..........................................................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam ................................................................Linda Reimer Powell River–Sunshine Coast ................................................. Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie .............................................................

Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount ................................................... Hon. Shirley Bond Richmond Centre ......................................................................Hon. Teresa Wat Richmond East ..........................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ..............................................................................John Y ap Saanich North and the Islands .................................................... Gary Holman Saanich South ................................................................................

Lana Popham Shuswap ................................................................................................Greg Kyllo Skeena .............................................................................................. Robin Austin Stikine ....................................................................................... Doug Donaldson Surrey-Cloverdale ....................................................... Hon. Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Fleetwood ........................................................... Hon.

Peter Fassbender Surrey–Green Timbers .................................................................. Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton ................................................................................. Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama ........................................................................... Marvin Hunt Surrey-Tynehead ......................................................................Hon. Amrik Virk Surrey-Whalley..............................................................................

Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ....................................................................... Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Fairview ..................................................................George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek ................................................................... Sam Sullivan Vancouver-Fraserview ......................................................Hon.

Suzanne Anton Vancouver-Hastings ....................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington .................................................................Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway..........................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara .................................................................Dr. Moira Stilwell Vancouver–Mount Pleasant .........................................

Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey .........................................................................David Eby Vancouver-Quilchena ................................................ Hon. Andrew Wilkinson Vancouver–West End ...............................................

Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee ...............................................................................Eric Foster Victoria–Beacon Hill .......................................................................Carole James Victoria–Swan Lake.........................................................................Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano ............................................................. Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ..........................................................Jordan Sturdy Westside-Kelowna ................................................................

Hon. Christy Clark Party Standings: BC Liberal 49; New Democratic 34; Independent 2

CONTENTS Wednesday, May 7, 2014 Aft ernoon Sitting Page Routine Business Tributes ..................................................................................................................................................................................... 3603 Jack Singh Uppal Hon. S. Anton H.

Bains Introductions by Members ..................................................................................................................................................... 3604 Tributes ..................................................................................................................................................................................... 3604 Harold Mitchell J. Kwan Bud Osborn J.

Kwan Introductions by Members ..................................................................................................................................................... 3605 Tributes ..................................................................................................................................................................................... 3605 Farley Mowat M.

Karagianis Introductions by Members ..................................................................................................................................................... 3606 Statements (Standing Order 25B) ......................................................................................................................................... 3607 85th anniversary of Williams Lake D. Barnett Residential school system and witness blanket initiative H. Bains John Koerner S. Sullivan Food security and community gardens C. Trevena Public policy and subjective well-being G.

Hogg Bird migration and habitat protection in Delta South area V . Huntington Oral Questions ......................................................................................................................................................................... 3609 Temporary foreign worker program and employment of B.C. workers J. Horgan Hon. S. Bond Temporary foreign worker program and protection for workers M. Elmore Hon. S. Bond Regulation of party bus industry G. Heyman Hon. T. Stone Impact of integrated case management system issues on safety of children C. James Hon. S.

Cadieux Impact of integrated case management system issues on income assistance recipients M. Mungall Hon. D. McRae Hon. A. Wilkinson

Petitions .................................................................................................................................................................................... 3614 B. Routley Orders of the Day Committee of the Whole House ............................................................................................................................................ 3614 Bill 2 — Electoral Boundar ies Commission Amendment Act, 2014 Hon. S. Anton L. Krog V . Huntington A. Weaver R.

Fleming Reporting of Bills ..................................................................................................................................................................... 3631 Bill 2 — Electoral Boundar ies Commission Amendment Act, 2014 Th ird Reading of Bills ......................................................................................................... .................................................... 3631 Bill 2 — Electoral Boundar ies Commission Amendment Act, 2014 Second Reading of Bills .......................................................................................................................................................... 3631 Bill 24 — Agricultural Land Commission Amendment Act, 2014 (continued) N.

Macdonald G. Kyllo C. Trevena D. Barnett D. Eby Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 3644 Estimates: Ministry of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training (continued) H. Bains Hon. S. Bond S. Fraser

WEDNESDAY , MAY 7, 2014 Th e House met at 1:34 p.m. [Madame Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Prayers. [1335] Tributes JACK SINGH UPPAL Hon. S. Anton: I rise today to pay tribute to an extra- ordinary British Columbian, and that is Dr. Jagat "Jack" Singh Uppal, who died last Sunday at the age of 89. He will be missed. Jack was a successful businessman, a community lead- er and a philanthropist. He was only a baby when he ar- rived in Canada from the Punjab in 1926.

His father, Dalip Singh Uppal, was a true B.C. pioneer, having ar- rived in 1907 as part of the fi rst wave of Sikh immigrants to British Columbia. In fact, his father was a key mem- ber of the group of South Asians who tried to advocate for the rights of passage for those trapped aboard the Komagata Maru exactly 100 years ago. Jack continued the legacy of helping others. Over the years he assisted thousands of people new to British Columbia. He has been described as a one-man social worker before there were social workers.

Jack was one of the fi rst Sikh children to attend public school in Vancouver, but when he was 13, his father was killed in an accident, and young Jack had to drop out of school to support his family. He found work in a saw- mill, which began his lifelong involvement in the B.C. forest industry. Eventually he moved from millworker to manage- ment and then into mill ownership. He became and was for a long time the owner of the successful Goldwood Industries on Mitchell Island. As such, he hired new im- migrants and sponsored others. Jack was a great historian of the forest industry in British Columbia.

When we lose someone like Jack, we risk losing that great knowledge. In his later years he was seen as one of the B.C. Sikh community's foremost historians and a generous sup- porter of many local charities. He was president of the historic Khalsa Diwan Society when the temple was on West 2nd Avenue in Vancouver. He was a key fi gure in building the Ross Street Temple in the '60s, which is located in my riding of Vancouver-Fraserview, and he was much involved in starting the No. 5 Road temple in Richmond.

A prominent member of the Sikh community and the province, he was recognized for his provincial accom- plishments in 2010 when he received a British Columbia Community Achievement Award. In 2012 he was pre- sented an honorary doctorate by Simon Fraser University. But above all, Jack was a loving family man. He's survived by his four children, their families, 11 grand- children and six great-grandchildren. I had the pleasure of being in his house a few months ago, and his phone never stopped ringing. His is a family that keeps in touch all day, every day.

His daughter tells me that their home was always full of people, and it was clearly a joy- ous household. Jack's family, his city, his community and his province will miss him. Th e service to commemorate Dr. Jack Uppal's life and legacy will be held Sunday in Delta, and we will all miss a great British Columbian. H. Bains: I, too, would like to join the Attorney in pay- ing my tribute to Jack Uppal. I started to get to know Jack in the early '80s. I was the representative of the IW A, and Jack was the owner where we had members. We sat across the table on many occa- sions. In fact, we had many disagreements.

Jack was a person — in addition to being a success- ful business person, a good community person — who represented that segment of our community that fought long and hard so that people like me can be in this House. People like me who were actually denied the right to Canada were given the right to come to Canada. [1340] Th e right to vote was denied in 1907 in this House.

It was Jack Uppal, Khalsa Diwan Society and many of those people at that time who went to Ottawa, came here and lobbied on our behalf so that people could have a better future and so that we as Canadians have a society made of equals — a society that can actually respect each other and value all of the values and customs and religious val- ues that we bring here to the country, celebrate by learn- ing from each other and make a better society. Jack was one in those groups that fought for us. I met Jack just recently, when he was not doing well. His health was giving way.

He told me at one of the gath- erings also: "When no one supported us…." He was ac- tually very active in politics. He said: "No political party would support us until CCF came into existence. Th ey were the only ones who would stand with us and advo- cate for the right to vote and the right for equality." Needless to say, the community will miss him. All of us will miss him. I think that the legacy that these giants have left behind is something that we can be proud of. I think the reason why we are a better society today is be- cause of people like Jack.

On behalf of everyone on this side of the House, I say: Jack, job well done. 3603

British Columbia Debates3604 Wednesday, May 7, 2014 Introductions by Members L. Larson: I'd like to introduce Mr. Robert Davidson, president of the Canadian Pulmonary Fibrosis Foundation; IPF patient George Kaminsky; and from the B.C. Lung Association, Scott McDonald. Th ey are here today to meet with MLAs about disease awareness. Please join me in welcoming them to the Legislature. J. Horgan: Joining us in the gallery today are two of my biggest backers. I would not be the Leader of the Offi cial Opposition today were it not for their perseverance in persuading me to pursue this position.

And yes, that's the best alliteration I'm going to have for today. I want to introduce Kody Bell and Mark Bridges. Many mem- bers of this House will have seen Mark and Kody making mischief in the hallways here many times in the past, and I suspect they'll be doing it again this aft ernoon. Would the House please make them welcome. D. Horne: Madame Speaker, on your behalf it's with great pleasure that I introduce members of the Canada Asia Pacifi c Business Association who are visiting us today — Elsa Wong, the president; Thomas Wu, the immediate past president; and Ming Chak Siu, the vice- president.

As well, they're joined by other members of the association, including Huan Kui Yin, Paul Tam, Susana Su, Bill Han, Harry Xun, Horace Ng, John Wong, Andy Leong, Sarah Zheng, Tina Guan, Win Pan, Carol Li, Echo Huang, Elaine Yu and Y oyo Yu. May the House make them truly welcome. J. Darcy: I'd like to join the member for Boundary- Similkameen in welcoming today the delegation from the Canadian Pulmonary Fibrosis Foundation and the B.C. Lung Association.

It was especially moving that two of the people in the delegation have themselves had lung transplants and were able to tell their story in a very, very compelling way. One of the people who was present — who is not in the gallery, who had another appointment — Linda Martin, is going through the process and is waiting for approval for a lung transplant. Th ey were here to advocate for sup- port for treatments that can improve quality of life for them and other people like them. I'd also like to give a special welcome to the president of the B.C. Lung Association, who hails from New Westminster, Mr.

Scott McDonald. He said: "I'll see you in the grocery store." We will, indeed. If the House could please join me in welcoming these people and really congratulating them for the wonderful advocacy that they do. Hon. P . Fassbender: I have two sets of introductions today of people in the House visiting us.

Th e fi rst is a group of students from Kwantlen Park Secondary School and their teachers — Rae-Ann Leburn, Olivia Helmer, Anmol Swaich, Saad Al-Samarrai, Shauna Nero, Margaret Ackroyd and Garry Th ind, the incoming president of a Surrey Rotary club. [1345] I need to say, that when I met with the students and the teachers over lunch, I had a great chance to talk with the students. Th ey have an amazing perspective on edu- cation that I welcomed hearing — and a lot of challenges. I would ask the House to welcome them here today.

Th en, very quickly, some longstanding — I never used the word "old" anymore — friends of mine: Keith and Pauline Batchelor. Keith helped my wife and I build our house that we're currently living in. I've updated it a few times, and not because of the quality of his work. Th e friendship that grew out of it has been longstanding, and I'd ask the House to welcome them as well. Tributes HAROLD MITCHELL J. Kwan: I, too, have some sad news to share with this House. I wish to pay tribute to two much-loved members of our community.

Harold Mitchell, a valuable mem- ber of the First Nations community, passed away a few days ago. He was on the board of the Circle of Eagles Lodge Society and worked out of the aboriginal friend- ship centre. Th ere will be a blanket ceremony tonight at the West Coast Night, at the friendship centre, and there will be a dinner and donation collection for the family. I ask all the members of the House to join me in hon- ouring Harold Mitchell and to express our deep condol- ences to his family and friends. BUD OSBORN J.

Kwan: Th e second person that I wish to honour today was an incredible, incredible individual in the Downtown Eastside. Y ou can just see the beauty and the strength of this individual in his everyday presence, in what he does, what he says and through his actions. Bud Osborn was a Downtown Eastside resident, and he, sadly, passed away last night. He was, in my view, the father of Insite, the supervised injection facility, a former drug user who dedicated his life to recovery and then to advocate for those who strug- gled with addictions.

He is an enormous advocate in our community, a beautiful poet, an activist and a friend. He was loved by many in our community, and he'll always, always be remembered by the strength and the beauty of him as being the person that he was. I wish to, actually, put on the record a quote from a poem that Bud had written, a couple verses from his poem. It reads as follows:

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, May 7, 2014 3605 We have become a community of prophets in the Downtown Eastside, rebuking the system and speaking hope and possibility into situations of apparent impossibility. To raise s-h-i-t is to actively resist, and we resist with our presence, with our words, with our love, with our courage. I think that exemplifi es Bud Osborn and everything that he stood for in the fi ght that we stand in Downtown Eastside for all the things that we wish to gain for our community. Introductions by Members Hon. T.

Stone: It gives me great pleasure to intro- duce today — on behalf, also, of the Minister of Health; the Minister of Community, Sport and Cultural Development; and, I would say, the member for Cariboo- Chilcotin — three special guests who are here today representing Th ompson Rivers University. In the chamber we have Alan Shaver, the president; Uli Scheck, vice-president, academic; and Baihua Chadwick, who has a fantastic title. She's the CEO of global oper- ations. TRU is arguably one of the most comprehensive in- stitutions in the province of British Columbia, with programs that range from welding to law.

Students can choose from over 140 on-campus programs. Th ere are 12,000 students on both of the campuses. Th ere's a campus in Kamloops. Th ere's also a campus in Williams Lake and fi ve regional centres. In addition to that, there are another 12,000 open learning students, as TRU is British Columbia's Open Learning Agency. Th ere are 2,589 international students from more than 85 countries, who enrich our campus both culturally and academically as well. I'm very, very proud to welcome Alan, Uli and Baihua here from Thompson Rivers University, a university that was created by this government in 2005.

I'd ask the chamber to please make our three guests from Kamloops welcome. B. Routley: I'd like to welcome to this House Bev Th ompson. She's a well-known and respected artist from the Cowichan Valley. She does prints and paintings. She even has a studio down here in Victoria, in Chinatown. [1350] She divides her time between her artistry and her English teaching. She teaches English as a second lan- guage. She's also fl uent in French. She's a wonderful vol- unteer at the Intercultural Society in the Cowichan Valley. Would the House please join me in welcoming Bev Th ompson. J.

Th ornthwaite: In the gallery today I'd like to wel- come Andy Smith from the B.C. Maritime Employers Association. The B.C. Maritime Employers Association is do- ing exactly what our government is asking them to do — they've reached out to a post-secondary institution, Capilano University — and is developing a leadership course for those in the maritime business to help our youth move into all the jobs that are going to become available. Th ey're a partnership, and they're doing well. I very much wish them and Capilano University well when they get this leadership course underway.

Would the gallery please join me in welcoming Andy. D. Eby: I just wanted to join my colleague from across the way in welcoming Dr. Shaver and his colleagues from TRU. I wanted to say that Dr. Shaver is clearly a very hands-on president. Th e last time I saw him he had a full, grease-stained apron on from serving students ham- burgers at the orientation barbecue at TRU all aft ernoon. Welcome, on behalf of the opposition, to the House. Hon. T. Lake: All of the members of the Legislature depend on hard-working and very capable staff to assist them with their duties.

Today I'd just like to take a brief second to recognize someone that certainly has their hands full looking aft er our offi ce. Sabrina Loiacono has been working, I think, in the buildings for about nine or ten years. She started when she was about 15, I believe, and she has been the recep- tionist for the B.C. Liberal caucus. She's been executive assistant to the Minister of Labour and the Minister of Environment, ministerial assistant to the Minister of Environment and now chief of staff for the Minister of Health, which is her toughest challenge yet. I would like to have the House join me in wishing Ms.

Loiacono a very happy birthday today. Tributes FARLEY MOW AT M. Karagianis: I'd like to rise today to pay tribute to the loss today of a Canadian icon. Th e beloved author Farley Mowat has passed away today. Farley Mowat was born in Belleville, Ontario, on May 12, 1921, so he would have been 93 on Monday. Of course, we know him as an amazing author and a very keen environmentalist. He won the Governor General's Award for Lost in the Barrens . He won the Stephen Leacock Medal for The Boat Who Wouldn't Float.

And of course, I think many of us here grew up on the stories like Never Cry Wolf , Th e Snow Walker and A Whale for the Killing . His books were published in 52 languages, and 17 million copies were sold. I'm sure that everyone who went through the school

British Columbia Debates3606 Wednesday, May 7, 2014 years in the past couple of decades had a chance to read some of his books, fall in love with his books and in fact gain a love and an appreciation and respect for the en- vironment through his writings — so a sad loss today of a great writer. Introductions by Members Hon. D. McRae: Today we're joined by three guests from the Comox Valley. We have Sarah Stromquist, with her daughters, Kate and Elsa, joining us here today. Th ey were taking opportunities…. Kate and Elsa are home- schooled.

Th ey're here to learn about the physical struc- ture of the Legislature, the people in the Legislature and the processes by which we govern. Th ey're in the gallery today, and I'd like the House to please make them welcome. If I get a question, you never know. G. Holman: It's an honour for me today to recognize a distinguished visitor from my constituency in the gal- lery today, Mr. Adam Olsen, a very talented young man — a youngish man — who's also interim leader of the Green Party and a proud and well-respected member of the Tsartlip First Nation. Would the House please make Mr. Olsen feel welcome. [1355] D.

Horne: Other than the offi cial introduction I made earlier, I also have a second guest in the House today, Joel Th irsk. Joel has this week joined my constituency offi ce aft er moving from Ontario. He was with a very close friend of mine for many years, Jim Watson, who is the mayor of Ottawa, and he's now decided to come and join us here in British Columbia. May the House make him truly welcome. G. Heyman: Joining us today in the gallery are Julie Raymond and Danielle Raymond of Maple Ridge.

Julie is the mother and Danielle is the sister of Shannon Raymond, who tragically died in 2008 following a night of celebrating with her friends that ended in a tragic in- cident on a party bus. In the last few weeks I've had the honour of getting to know Julie and Danielle and talking with them about the work they've been doing to raise awareness of the perils that are inherent with this unregulated industry. Th ey've been working hard as advocates in the community. Will the House please join me in making them very welcome. Hon. S.

Cadieux: Joining us in the gallery today are two very hard-working young women from the Ministry of Children and Family Development, deputy minister's offi ce: Zita Teng, who's the director of executive oper- ations, and Francesca Guetchev, documents coordinator. Friday is Francesca's last day with the government before embarking on a new journey in the province of Alberta, but we do wish her all the best. R. Fleming: I want to extend birthday wishes, too, to a staff member here at the Legislature: Ed May, who was formerly a legislative assistant and is now a communica- tions offi cer.

His most illustrious posting was as the past president of the Victoria–Swan Lake NDP Constituency Association. Ed and his wife, Fiona, are expecting their second child very soon, so it's a special birthday for him this year. I would ask the House to please join me in wishing Ed May a happy birthday today. Hon. J. Rustad: All of us spend a great deal of time away from home, and we miss a lot of events, so I wanted to take this opportunity to say to my parents, Molly and Laurie Rustad: happy 62nd wedding anniversary, which was yesterday.

As well, to my wife, my lovely wife, Kim — yesterday was our 19th wedding anniversary. And then today to say to my wife: I love you very much, and I miss you. Happy birthday. J. Shin: We have a lot of tributes and celebrations to- day, but I would also like to also share mine. Th is time 18 years ago I woke up in the middle of the night from the discomforts of an immunosuppressive therapy that I was receiving in B.C. Children's. Eyes half-open at that time, I noticed the shadow of a body next to my bed kneeling on the cold hospital fl oor. It was my mom. I don't think I'll ever forget the image of her that night.

She had tears streaming down her face, and she was rock- ing back and forth in utter distress. And with her eyes closed, she was uttering prayers, reaching out and calling out to God that she barely knew, asking that he would let me live and take her instead. She must have been so desperate that being on her old knees wasn't enough. She lift ed her arms in the air as if infl icting that physical pain on herself would somehow increase my odds.

I would have died 18 years ago and left her permanent- ly devastated had it not for the 80-some blood donors out there somewhere and medicare and social services that my family couldn't have aff orded otherwise but were pro- vided to us in this great country. Today is my mom's 64th birthday, and so on her behalf I wanted to thank all the members who donate blood and who put social policies in place for all families like mine in British Columbia. Would the House please say happy, happy birthday to my mom, Michelle Myung Bok Shin, and wish her a very wonderful day. M.

Morris: In the House today we have members of the British Columbia Police Association. Would the House please make them welcome.

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, May 7, 2014 3607 [1400] A. Weaver: In the House today I'd like to introduce a number of visitors who I had lunch with. We've got Noel Muller and Kim Darwin, who are in the riding of my good friend from Powell River–Sunshine Coast; a number of people from the North Shore — Len Laycock, Jessica McIlroy, Richard Warrington; and a special guest visiting from Toronto — fi lmmaker Daniel Roher, who is in Vancouver showing one of his short fi lms this week. Th ank you very much, Madame Speaker, and may we continue with question period now. K.

Corrigan: I would like to add my welcome as well to the B.C. Police Association, who are meeting here, meet- ing with us, having their own meetings. I had a wonderful reception last night from, particularly, Tom Stamatakis — great work that he does — president of the B.C. Police Association, president of the Vancouver Police Union and president of the Canadian Police Association. He puts in a lot of work, as do all the members. I would like to also make them very welcome. Statements (Standing Order 25B) 85th ANNIVERSARY OF WILLIAMS LAKE D.

Barnett: This past Saturday I had the pleasure, along with my colleague from Cariboo North, of at- tending an 85th birthday party for the city of Williams Lake. It was a delightful event coordinated by Councillors Danica Hughes and Surinderpal Rathor. Chief Ann Louie gave a warm welcome from the Williams Lake Indian Band, recognizing the traditional territory where the community lies today. Mayor Cook welcomed mayors Ethel Winger, the fi rst female mayor of the city; Jim Fraser; and Ivan Bonnell. She welcomed residents born 85 years ago and raised in Williams Lake.

Mayor Cook also talked about the proud history of Williams Lake, its rich culture and cowboy heritage and First Nations partnerships. We have had our fair share of diffi cult times in the city, including the pine beetle disaster, but the citizens of Williams Lake are and always have been resilient. Th e importance of our natural resource sector, including for- estry and mining, agriculture, tourism, and small busi- nesses are driving the Williams Lake economy forward into the future. What really makes me so proud of Williams Lake are the people.

Many residents serve countless hours vol- unteering their time to the community through service clubs and organizations. We are also so proud of our local heroes, like the inspiring Rick Hansen and Team Canada gold Olympic winner and Canadiens goalie Carey Price. Th ey know how special and how supportive the com- munity is. Happy birthday, Williams Lake — 85 has never looked so good. RESIDENTIAL SCHOOL SYSTEM AND WITNESS BLANKET INITIATIVE H. Bains: Today I would like to thank Shelley Th orne and the Fraser Region Aboriginal Friendship Centre for inviting me to the Witness Blanket ceremony in Surrey.

Th e Witness Blanket ceremony is a moving experience. It is an avenue for people to collect artifacts for the blanket and acknowledge the eff ects that residential schools still have on people today. It is my privilege to bear witness and join in the jour- ney to recognize the atrocities of the residential school– era in our country, an era we cannot aff ord to forget. We must stand together as Canadians and fellow human be- ings to acknowledge the unthinkable actions of our in- stitutions of the day.

Many of us did not experience the residential schools fi rsthand but are able to witness through learning and active participation in the reconciliation process. Clearly, these were the times where people thought there was superior existence. We have come a long way in today's world, but not far enough. Today is where we must recognize these wrongs and work hard to make sure the treatment of human be- ings does not repeat itself. Education creates aware- ness, and acknowledging the appalling treatment of the residential school victims is the beginning of the healing progress.

Th e Witness Blanket is a great start to educate the pub- lic and a demonstration to the victims of the residential schools that we hear them. We must empathize with their feelings and support them in their healing process. [1405] The Fraser Region Aboriginal Friendship Centre shares an important part of this process. People come together in the comfort of their aboriginal culture and identify with the experiences people have had. I was proud to be included in this ceremony to pay tribute to all those who have been directly or indirectly impacted by Canada's Indian residential schools. JOHN KOERNER S.

Sullivan: I would like to acknowledge that British Columbia recently lost a great artist and humanitarian named John Koerner. He died at 100 years of age. He was a prolifi c artist and was creating art until the end. He was truly a gentle soul whose art was representative of his genuine love of life, his integrity of spirit and his belief in humanity. Th is is not what one might have expected from someone of Jewish descent who had to abandon

British Columbia Debates3608 Wednesday, May 7, 2014 everything and leave his native Prague and then Paris, where his skills and identity as an artist were developed. Th is was just before World War II, but he decided early on that his art would not refl ect the tragedy and horrors of the world. Indeed, his art is suff used with the power- ful message of peace and the celebration of the positive. One only had to meet him to realize how truly his art re- fl ected who he was at his core.

When John Koerner arrived in Vancouver, he quick- ly became friends with a network of people committed to exploring new directions in art, including Lawren Harris of the Group of Seven, B.C. Binning, Jack Shadbolt, Gordon Smith and others. He exhibited his art at the New Design Gallery in West Vancouver, founded by Alvin Balkind and Abraham Rogatnick, which was one of the first of its kind in Canada devoted entirely to modern art. Today his works can be found in some of the fi nest galleries around the world, including the Tate gallery in London and the National Gallery in Ottawa.

John Koerner taught and inspired more than one gen- eration of British Columbia artists at UBC and what is now called Emily Carr University. He had a great infl u- ence on the culture of the province. Even at 100 years of age, he was hosting an art show in Penticton and plan- ning one for his 101st birthday. We are all most grateful that he and his family chose to fi nd refuge in British Columbia. Th ey have contrib- uted so much. His relatives created the Leon and Th ea Koerner Foundation, which continues to support num- erous charitable initiatives.

I know that all of us in the British Columbia Legislature celebrate with his family the life of a great man, a great artist and a great humanitarian who has embodied so well a positive message of peace and resilience and love of life. FOOD SECURITY AND COMMUNITY GARDENS C. Trevena: Food security is becoming an almost hackneyed phrase. It's a truism that food is essential to life, whether you enjoy a meal or just eat for sustenance, but the meaning of food security is understood diff er- ently by diff erent people. For many, food security and poverty are inextricably linked.

For thousands of our neighbours, food security is simply about getting food. Th ose who rely on food banks for regular sustenance or to get them through the end of the month have no food security. Th e children who go to school hungry and are reliant on the schools, the PACs and the volunteers to provide a breakfast program or on the snacks that teachers can provide for their students' lunch have no food security. Th ere's also a defi nition of food security bounded by geography. Here on the Island we are very vulnerable.

As agriculture production has diminished and the popula- tion has grown, we are tenuously dependent on food be- ing shipped in. We have a three-day supply of food here, and that security is made more fragile by the spiralling costs of our ferries and the government's abrogation of responsibility for the marine highway. Th en there's a local defi nition of food security, in which communities and community groups encourage community gardens, and I have to mention an inter- est here. I have a plot in a community garden. I have a bag of kale in my fridge, ready to be eaten. I thorough- ly enjoy it.

Th ey can happen almost anywhere. I smile when I walk through the constituency of my colleague from Vancouver–West End and see food growing on the corner of Burrard and Davie. Here in Victoria one stumbles over community gardens almost every couple of kilometres, and in the real north Island, the Mount Waddington re- gion, there are nine community gardens. One provides food for the food bank, another for the elders' lunch.

Some are for community groups and some for individ- ual consumption. [1410] It's perhaps an awareness of the importance of healthy food, perhaps a fear of climate change, perhaps a question of cost, but people are investing in food security and are growing in their awareness of it. We're seeing more and more seed sharing, seed banks and a growth in the idea and the process of wild harvesting. Food is essential to our lives and to our communities. Food security should not be a debate; it should be a right. PUBLIC POLICY AND SUBJECTIVE WELL-BEING G.

Hogg: Th e Canadian Centre for the Study of Living Standards report states that the sheer volume of evidence that income inequality leads to various negative social and health increases is reason to look at measures other than GDP and debt-to-GDP ratios to augment the de- velopment of public policy.

UBC economist and fellow of the Canadian Institute for Advanced Research John Helliwell has written that individuals, communities and governments are becom- ing increasingly interested in using subjective well-being, which is based on how individuals rate the quality of their own lives, to supplement or even to supplant more trad- itional economic measures with measures that better re- fl ect individual and social progress. Some countries have made increased subjective well- being an explicit goal of their public policy initiatives.

Th is has resulted in eff orts to increase the quality and quantity of subjective well-being data, research and an- alysis. Th is has happened in jurisdictions like the United Kingdom, the European Commission, France and the OECD countries. Canada's Centre for the Study of Living Standards

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, May 7, 2014 3609 sponsored a conference in Ottawa to explore policy implications of the research into subjective well-being. Helliwell says that the evidence should be enough to convince policymakers to utilize this research. Not many have, primarily due to the human predilection to adhere to our old ways of understanding and do- ing, despite the arrival of evidence that suggests we are wrong. He says that we all tend to stick to our old ways be- cause we are generally unaware of our bias in favour of the evidence supporting the view which we already hold.

As is oft en the case, it is easier to fi nd new ways to think and to do than it is to let go of our old ways. May we all become more aware of our biases and act on those. BIRD MIGRATION AND HABITAT PROTECTION IN DELTA SOUTH AREA V . Huntington: In Canada and the United States, International Migratory Bird Day is celebrated on May 10. Mexico, Central and South America and the Caribbean celebrate this day in October. Th e seasonal fl ights of millions of birds moving between breeding and wintering grounds cross many nations and cover many thousands of miles.

Th e timing of the migration is controlled by the length of our days, and the dazzling navigation by the earth's magnetic fi eld, the stars and by memory maps. One of the world's greatest wildlife migrations takes place on our own doorstep — a doorstep in danger of becoming a doormat. Delta South is without parallel in B.C. It encompasses the Boundary Bay wildlife manage- ment area, the Boundary Bay raptor management area, the Burns Bog conservancy, the Alaksen national wild- life area, the Reifel Bird Sanctuary and the Roberts Bank wildlife management area.

It is designated an internation- al Ramsar site, a UN recognition that Delta is a wetland of international signifi cance. Helping our farmers protect agricultural uplands and the forage it provides is essential. Protecting the eelgrass beds and mud fl ats of the Fraser River estuary is essen- tial, for throughout Roberts Bank a rare intertidal biofi lm sustains the world's population of western san dpipers. Sandpipers are the only higher vertebrate known to sur- vive on biofi lm, and they will graze 20 tonnes a day in preparation for migration.

But competing interests threaten what remains of this habitat, and as usual the threat comes from man's in- ability to fi nd balance. Our quest is always for more. In the end, the quest destroys those gift s of nature that give wonder to life and that enrich our community. God willing, and before it is too late, the men and women in this House will have the spirit, intelligence and courage to say, "Enough is enough," and will help us save this vital ecosystem. Oral Questions TEMPORARY FOREIGN WORKER PROGRAM AND EMPLOYMENT OF B.C. WORKERS J.

Horgan: Since this Premier came to offi ce, the pri- vate sector job growth in British Columbia is amongst the lowest in Canada. Some 142,000 people are looking for work here. Many, many more are underemployed or have temporary jobs — tens of thousands of other people. Th e question I have for the Minister of Jobs today is: why would it be, with 142,000 people unemployed, that we have 22 percent of the temporary foreign workers, when the refrain from the minister has been over and over again that British Columbians will be in line for these jobs fi rst and when the evidence is quite to the con- trary?

Can the minister demonstrate today — show some tangible proof — that that's not the case? [1415] Hon. S. Bond: We are working every day in govern- ment to ensure that we attract investment, that we look at brand-new opportunities in this province. As we speak, there are discussions going on in Malaysia and Singapore about bringing a brand-new industry here to British Columbia. To the member opposite's question, there are currently 74,000 temporary foreign workers in British Columbia.

I want to remind the member opposite that the very lar- gest group of those temporary foreign workers — they're classed as temporary foreign workers — 39 percent of those individuals, are part of a youth mobility program. It is a program that is recognized in 32 countries around the world, where reciprocal exchanges take place. So, in fact, almost 40 percent of that number is a youth mobility program for students. I am thinking that per- haps the members opposite are supportive of that type of program. Madame Speaker: Recognizing the Leader of the Offi cial Opposition on a supplemental. J.

Horgan: I asked the minister for tangible evidence of the statement that the minister had been making for the past number of months: that British Columbians will be fi rst in line for job openings. Th at's demonstrably not the case, and the minister should acknowledge that. Other jurisdictions — Quebec, for example — have negotiated an agreement with the federal government to manage and maintain the temporary foreign worker program. Similarly, in Manitoba there's a program where employers must register before they apply for tempor- ary foreign workers.

Th e minister has talked about dis- cussions with the federal government — but no action. She's talked about British Columbians fi rst, if Ottawa says it's okay.

British Columbia Debates3610 Wednesday, May 7, 2014 Two other jurisdictions have got agreements in place, Minister. Why don't you? Hon. S. Bond: As I have said to the member oppos- ite, we have had very, very direct conversations with the federal government. This is a federally administered program. As I've said in this House and outside it to the Leader of the Opposition, we are looking at the models that are currently in place in Manitoba and Alberta. We are waiting for additional changes, which the feder- al government has committed to. But we should be clear about this.

When employers abuse a system for which there are legitimate needs, I would think that…. As I said to the member opposite, when we have a re- ciprocal agreement with 32 countries — about 29,000 of those individuals — I think there is legitimacy to that. But if there is abuse of the temporary foreign worker pro- gram, in British Columbia or anywhere else, we support the federal government taking far more signifi cant steps to stop that abuse and ensure that employers pay atten- tion to the legislation and to the criteria. Madame Speaker: Recognizing the Leader of the Offi cial Opposition on a supplemental. J.

Horgan: Well, the minister and her system of self- enforcement of employment standards put all of these individuals at risk. She knows that. No action has been taken. We know two other jurisdictions in Canada have agreements in place. I don't know why, with demonstrable evidence — again, something that the minister doesn't have…. When it comes to the fact that 142,000 British Columbians are looking for work today and students coming out of uni- versity will be looking for work at the end of this month, what do we have?

A program that has run amok and a government that can't keep control of temporary for- eign workers. My question is…. Th ere have been discussions, the minister has said. Can she put in place for this House and for the people of British Columbia any evidence at all that she's been advocating for joint control of this program as exists in two other jurisdictions in Canada? Any evidence of that at all, or is it just more rhetoric? [1420] Hon. S.

Bond: Well, there was pretty clear evidence, in fact, when this government actually made a decision to go to Ottawa with one of the largest contingents possible to talk about labour market and skills training needs. In fact, it was unprecedented. What we discussed with Minister Kenney directly…. In fact, there was media coverage, to the Leader of the Opposition. Th ere was actually coverage that said we're going to work together with the federal government to do a number of things.

First of all, we're going to work on how we can train people together across this country, looking at things that have not been done before and how we, certainly, supported the absolute changes that Minister Kenney has made. We support them. We abso- lutely believe that employers should not take advantage of this program. But we're doing what's most important for British Columbians. We're actually attracting investment. We are looking at a new industry in British Columbia. It would be wonderful at some point…. Again, we're at about day 3 of the new Leader of the Opposition's role here.

It would be fantastic to see him stand up and un- equivocally today support liquefi ed natural gas in British Columbia, which will create jobs for British Columbians now and in the future. TEMPORARY FOREIGN WORKER PROGRAM AND PROTECTION FOR WORKERS M. Elmore: Well, a plane ride and a chat with the min- ister do not qualify as taking responsibility for oversight of this program in British Columbia. It's the provincial government that is responsible for setting and enforcing employment standards in this province. No matter how much the minister points her fi nger at Ottawa, this is her responsibility.

Every day we're treated to stories of workers being abused in various ways: substandard housing, threats to be fi red or worse, if they complain. Even Jason Kenney criticized B.C.'s weak legislation and lax enforcement of employment standards. Let's be clear. Th is is about more than temporary for- eign workers. While some workers lack protection, how can any worker be confi dent this government is on their side? Can the minister tell this House which employers have been fi ned and what other enforcement actions have been taken to stop abuse of these vulnerable workers? Hon. S.

Bond: Employment standards in British Columbia apply to all workers in this province, whether you are temporary or permanent. Th e member opposite well knows that services are provided to support tempor- ary foreign workers. In fact, this government stepped up and fi lled a funding gap for clients that are considered non-eligible under federal funding. We provided almost $2½ million to settlement services organizations, in par- ticular to look at non-eligible clients — which, in fact, covers temporary foreign workers.

None of us want to see workers that come to British Columbia not treated appropriately, and certainly, they have the same rights. Th at's why there are a number of outreach programs. If a temporary foreign worker is in need of one-on-one consultation, referral services, edu- cation services, all of those services are available. In fact, more than $2½ million is being provided for clients who are considered ineligible under the federal program. Th e

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, May 7, 2014 3611 province is closing that gap. Madame Speaker: The member for Vancouver- Kensington on a supplemental. M. Elmore: These words are cold comfort to tem- porary foreign workers who are here in the gallery lis- tening to this government and this minister talk about supposed services available to them. Th ey are not, and with this complaint-driven program, they are left out of the process. [1425] For temporary foreign workers, life is oft en very dif- fi cult. Some employers extort placement fees on them. Some do not pay overtime or give them time off when required.

Th e stories go on and on. When asked about these abuses, the minister's stan- dard response is to say that Ottawa needs to do a bet- ter job of enforcement. It's not Ottawa; it's this minister and this government who are responsible for workers in British Columbia. It makes a person wonder how any worker can be confi dent that the government is enforcing the rules if they can't do it for some of the most vulner- able workers in the province. To the minister: you've heard the same stories we have now for many weeks. Y ou can't keep saying that Ottawa needs to solve the problem.

What have you done to im- prove service to these vulnerable workers so that they don't face these situations alone? Hon. S. Bond: For the benefi t of the temporary foreign workers that are in the gallery — who I did not know were actually here today, and this is more than once that that's happened — what we have done, in fact, is we have provid- ed additional funding to settlement services offi ces across British Columbia to provide support for non-eligible cli- ents under other programs — $2½ million plus.

What that allows for is one-on-one consultation services, oft en deliv- ered in the clients' fi rst languages, and the opportunity to receive referral, education, support. We should be clear that employment standards in British Columbia apply to every worker. We expect employers to pay attention to that and ensure, and we also ensure, that every single complaint is followed up with and dealt with aggressively. Th ere are one-on- one services available for temporary foreign workers through settlement services organizations across British Columbia. Interjections. Madame Speaker: Members. Hon. S.

Bond: In fact, as I said earlier, in terms of what the government has done, the taxpayers of British Columbia have provided $2.6 million to ensure that tem- porary foreign workers have support through settlement services agencies today. REGULATION OF PARTY BUS INDUSTRY G. Heyman: In July 2008, 16-year-old Shannon Raymond died aft er travelling with friends on a party bus where alcohol and the drug Ecstasy were used in combination. In February 2013, 16-year-old Ernest Azoadam was found dying at a Chevron station in Surrey aft er riding on a party bus.

He was transported to Surrey Memorial Hospital, where he later died. We are on the cusp of graduations, a time when teen- agers celebrate a transition to their future. While party buses are a popular choice for these celebrations, even some of those in the industry say that operators too oft en place youth in vulnerable positions by failing to provide protection and by allowing them easy access to alcohol and drugs.

Will the Minister of Transportation commit today to immediate action to protect young people from the vir- tually unregulated party bus culture before another pre- ventable tragedy robs someone of their bright future? Hon. T. Stone: I thank the member opposite for his question. I want to also take this opportunity to acknow- ledge and welcome the Raymond family, who are here in the chamber with us. As a father of three daughters myself, I can only im- agine what it must feel like as a parent to receive that phone call that your child has been involved in an inci- dent of this sort.

Certainly, it's tragic when lives are lost. I think it's very clear to reiterate for all British Columbians that the consumption of liquor in any vehicle in British Columbia is illegal. [1430] Furthermore, with respect to these commercial char- ter vehicles, which are regulated and licensed through the Passenger Transportation Board, I think it's very im- portant that we take every opportunity we can to remind these companies of their obligations. Th eir obligation is to ensure the safe transport of their passengers.

Now to that end, there have been two meetings be- tween the 30-plus commercial charter vehicle companies in the province and the Passenger Transportation Board, where the PTB has made very clear to these companies what their obligations are. I certainly, as the minister re- sponsible for the Passenger Transportation Board, am going to ensure that those obligations continue to be de- scribed and enforced with these companies. Finally, as the member rightfully has pointed out, we are approaching the very busy grad season. To that end, I have had a number of conversations with the Attorney General.

Together, we are going to ensure that our two ministries work collaboratively on awareness and edu-

British Columbia Debates3612 Wednesday, May 7, 2014 cation, and indeed work with law enforcement partners and other stakeholders, like ICBC, to ensure that the operators are aware of their obligations and, ultimate- ly, to ensure the safe transport of all passengers here in British Columbia. Madame Speaker: Vancouver-Fairview on a supple- mental. G. Heyman: Unfortunately, words in the absence of action are cold comfort to families who've lost a loved one.

We've heard the Minister of Jobs talk about how education and awareness clearly haven't done the job in protecting workers' health in mills, and I would submit that it won't do the job here either. Following Ernest Azoadam's death, the former Transportation Minister promised to review regulation in order to increase the safety of the industry.

She said: "It's kind of tough to swallow that operators are saying, 'Look, it's not our fault,' when their advertisements in many cases imply alcohol is going to be part of the cele- bration these folks are going to be paying for." Th ere are around 400 party bus companies that operate in B.C. without even the level of regulation that applies to limousines and taxis. California has recently passed laws to protect under-age passengers from harm and to end the practice of dumping sick or distressed youth in iso- lated and dangerous locations. Th e state of Washington is looking at passing laws.

Shannon Raymond's mother and sister are in the gallery with us today. They've e-mailed the Minister of Transportation several times to ask for regulations to protect young people from unscrupulous operators, without even the courtesy of a meaningful response. Will the minister commit to the Raymonds today that he will regulate party buses before another senseless tra- gedy occurs? Hon. T. Stone: Again, I think it's important to under- score the diff erent actions that have been taken on this particular front over the last number of years.

I don't think anyone in this chamber would say otherwise than that it is critical that these operators understand what their obligations are to the people that they transport. Th e Passenger Transportation Board actually held a meeting at the end of March. During that meeting it met with 36 licensees from the Lower Mainland to clarify their responsibilities and emphasize that under no cir- cumstances whatsoever can liquor form part of their ser- vices — no circumstances whatsoever.

Off ences include consuming alcohol in a public place, including com- mercial vehicles; operating a motor vehicle while there is liquor in the motor vehicle; and permitting a minor to consume liquor in a place under his or her control.

Again, we are going to ensure that there is a coordin- ated campaign of awareness and education in this up- coming busy graduation season so that through law enforcement and other stakeholders — like ICBC; mu- nicipalities are an important partner in this as well — we're all working together to ensure that all British Columbians know what the law is and that the operators understand clearly that their number one obligation is to ensure the safe transport of their passengers. [1435] IMPACT OF INTEGRATED CASE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM ISSUES ON SAFETY OF CHILDREN C.

James: Two years ago New Democrats raised ser- ious concerns around the integrated case management system and how critical fl aws in the system could put vulnerable children at risk. Th e B.C. Liberals didn't lis- ten, and the problems continued. Now we find out that caseworkers have been con- sistently unable to access the system for a week.

As the Representative for Children and Y outh noted today: "Th at means a social worker today, going into a home to re- move a child, will not know whether in that home there are weapons, won't even know, perhaps, the last known address of that child…." We had a range of ministers, today at lunchtime, say that the system was fi xed. Well, we've continued to get calls to say that the system has crashed again today aft er lunch. So my question is to the Minister of Children and Families: why wasn't the system fi xed in the fi rst place when the Liberals were told that it put children at risk? Hon. S.

Cadieux: First and foremost, I'd like to assure the member opposite and all the members of the House and the general public that are listening that our fi rst and foremost priority in the Ministry of Children and Families is always the safety of children and vulnerable youth in our province. Th ere have been, for the last number of days, chal- lenges with the system. ICM has not been operating at full capacity. Th at's why, as part of standard procedure, all of our service delivery areas, all of our offi ces have continuity plans in place to manage situations like this.

Hard-copy fi les are available to be used, as are phone calls between offi ces. Our social workers know their jobs very well and do a very good job, even in challenging circum- stances, to ensure that children in this province are safe. Madame Speaker: Recognizing Victoria–Beacon Hill on a supplemental. C. James: I spoke to a social worker this morning who went in to work before 6 a.m. in hope that she could get onto the system before it crashed once again. She's pre- paring to do a court case for a child in a custody issue. She has no idea whether the fi les that have been printed

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, May 7, 2014 3613 off when the system was working are up to date or not because the system crashed again. Th e system isn't work- ing, Minister, and children are being put at risk, and so- cial workers and other staff are frustrated. A note came out today from management to the staff who work in the ministries. It says: "We do not have the ability to issue meal tickets or grocery cards. Y ou can, however, direct clients to shelters." Th at's the kind of re- sponse that is happening right now.

Th e Representative for Children and Y outh said this morning: "For six months we had an information sys- tem where you couldn't…push and print a report to go to court and get a hearing…." And now nothing has been working for a week. Th is was almost $200 million of taxpayer dollars. So much for the — and I quote from earlier in the week — "well-balanced, out- sourced contracts to manage our IT" that the Minister of Citizens' Services was bragging about. It has been down for a week. Th e system has been down for a week.

If the minister has no idea what the problem is, what kind of assurance can be given by this government that the system isn't going to crash next week or the week aft er or the week aft er that? [1440] Hon. S. Cadieux: As I stated, the safety and secur- ity of the children and youth that we serve is our fore- most priority. Th at means that we have backup systems in place to ensure that our social workers are able to access the information they require to keep those chil- dren safe.

Much of what the member opposite has just recited is incorrect, so I would like to make clear that the system, ICM, has been experiencing challenges for the last num- ber of days. Th ere have been other protocols in place for workers to access the information they need, including pulling the hard copies of fi les and communicating with other offi ces via phone. As well, our aft er-hours services have had operating capacity during this time. We are confi dent that children are being kept safe by the very staff that serve them. IMPACT OF INTEGRATED CASE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM ISSUES ON INCOME ASSISTANCE RECIPIENTS M.

Mungall: Well, not only is this broken computer system putting children at risk; it's throwing families liv- ing in poverty into chaos. Clients of the Ministry of Social Development are unable to get cheques for crisis grants, and as the member for Victoria–Beacon Hill said, they're unable to get meal tickets, grocery cards and other critic- ally important help like damage deposits. Many of them are facing eviction right now or are unable to get into a new place and are seeing themselves going homeless this upcoming month.

Aft er a week of all of this nonsense, the public now knows why — not because the government let people know and was upfront about it, telling them their plan to fi x the problem, to manage the backlog and how to get service back on track in a timely manner. It's because ad- vocates spoke out. My question is to the Minister of Social Development. Why was he asleep at the switch, failing to tell the pub- lic what was going on, when he was going to fix it and what he was going to do to make sure this didn't hap- pen again? Hon. D.

McRae: The ICM issue is something that came up late last week, and yes, we were aware of it. Many clients told us. Th e 1,500 front-line workers…. We were aware of it. One of the things I'm really, really proud of is that the front-line workers did a very good job under troubling circumstances to prioritize the individuals who needed help the most. They worked very hard, so if there was an opportunity where individuals would need some resources, those resources were able to be provided.

One of the things that we were looking for when we knew this was going down was that we wanted to make sure we were dealing with the people who needed help the most. So one of the things we were doing was mak- ing sure that when people came into the offi ce, we under- stood their needs. We also went another step. Th ere are people actually expressing concerns on social media, not directly com- municating to the ministry. What we do is, if we fi nd a social media concern and we can identify that individ- ual, we actually proactively reach out to the person to see what their needs are and see if we can help.

It's really important that we learn about these issues. One of the things we were able to do in estimates, on Wednesday, Th ursday and the following Monday this week…. We talked about how important it is that if there is a person who is struggling, we want to make sure the right staff know — and, if necessary, the minister knows — to see if we can fi nd a way to intervene to assist the individuals. If the members opposite are aware of those individuals, by all means, please make sure we are aware of them. M. Mungall: Facebook and Twitter are not a backup plan for ICM.

I'd also like to remind the minister that nei- ther are pencils and pieces of paper, as he suggested this morning on the CBC. Th at is not a backup plan. Th e fact that the government knew this for a week and didn't tell the public at all is shameful. Not only is that shameful, but when the Minister of Citizens' Services stood in this House on Monday and said that this government has "an enviable record of de-

British Columbia Debates3614 Wednesday, May 7, 2014 ployment of top-end IT" services…. [1445] At the end of the day, ICM is his responsibility, and if he didn't know that ICM had crashed last week, he should have. My question is to the Minister of Citizens' Services. Did he mislead this House on Monday when he boasted of the government's IT services? Or did his colleagues, the Minister of Children and Families and the Minister of Social Development, not tell him what was going on and what was putting hundreds of thousands of people's lives at risk? Hon. A.

Wilkinson: As is now known, the ICM infor- mation system has not been…. Interjections. Madame Speaker: Members will come to order. Hon. A. Wilkinson: Th e ICM information system has not been operating at full capacity over the past few days. Th ere have been slow response times and intermittent problems with entering data. Now, the system was up and running this morning. It's going through reboots this afternoon. The key point is that the end-users, those who need the ser- vices that are the subject of the system, are receiving services.

Th e cheques for the month of May, social as- sistance cheques for the month of May, were delivered in late April. Th e current delays are in issuance of payments for spe- cial circumstances in the short term. Th ese will be ad- dressed in the short term, and I'm proud to be able to say that the ICM system has been operating at 99.72 percent uptime over the past two years. [End of question period.] Petitions B.

Routley: I have petitions from the constituents in the Cowichan Valley, 247 of them, that are calling on the B.C. government to implement a community plan for a public system of integrated early care and learn- ing. Th e proposed $10-a-day care plan is a made-in-B.C. solution to the current child care crisis. It will create equality and aff ordable spaces and will pay educators a living wage. Orders of the Day Hon.

M. de Jong: In Committee A, Committee of Supply, the ongoing estimates of the Ministry of Jobs, and in this chamber committee stage debate on Bill 2. [1450] Committee of the Whole House BILL 2 — ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES COMMISSION AMENDMENT ACT, 2014 Th e House in Committee of the Whole (Section

B) on Bill 2; D. Horne in the chair. Th e committee met at 2:52 p.m. On

section 1. Th e Chair: I believe the minister has an amendment in her name on the order paper. Hon. S. Anton: Y es, I move the amendment to sec- tion 1, which is under my name, printed in the orders of the day. [SECTION 1, by deleting the text shown as struck out and adding the underlined text as shown: 1

Section 3 (2) of the Electoral Boundaries Commission Act, R.S.B.C. 1996, c. 107, is repealed and the following substituted,

(2) Th e commission must make proposals to the Legislative Assembly for 85 electoral districts.

(2) If, in carrying out its functions under subsection (1), the commission considers that the number of electoral districts in British Columbia should be increased, it- the commission may make proposals to the Legislative Assembly to increase the number of electoral districts up to a maximum of 87.] Th e Chair: Th e amendment is in order. Would the minister like to speak to the amendment? On the amendment. Hon. S. Anton: Th e

section would permit the next Electoral Boundaries Commission to propose up to 87 electoral districts for the province. In other words, it can stay at 85, or it can choose to go to as many as 87. The existing

section of the act authorizes the com- mission to propose increasing the number of districts up to 85. Th is gives them discretion to increase that by two, which does give them additional fl exibility to ad- dress representation in urban areas that are experiencing population growth. It's really up to the commission to de- cide how they might use those, but that would be where we might think that they would use them. Th e amendment does not provide any direction to the Electoral Boundaries Commission as to where specifi c- ally any new district should be created.

As I said, it is en- tirely in their discretion as the Boundaries Commission. L. Krog: With respect to the amendment, the amend- ment is fairly clear. It says that section (2) of the bill will now read, if amended: "If, in carrying out its functions under subsection (1), the commission considers that the number of electoral districts in British Columbia should

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, May 7, 2014 3615 be increased, the commission may make proposals to the Legislative Assembly to increase the number of electoral districts up to a maximum of 87." As I read the purpose of the section, it doesn't restrict the commission in terms of increasing…. Or I shouldn't say it doesn't direct the commission. It's not mandatory the commission increase the number of seats, but it sim- ply allows it to increase the number of seats from 87 to 85.

Whereas the present

section 3(2) of the act, under the

section "Function of commission," says: "If the commis- sion in carrying out its functions under subsection (1) considers that the number of electoral districts in British Columbia should be increased, it may make proposals to the Legislative Assembly to increase the number of elec- toral districts up to a maximum of 85." [1455] Essentially, the eff ect of the amendment as I under- stand it, then, is to allow the commission to consider up to 85 electoral districts, if in fact this amendment passes. Hon. S. Anton: It's 87. L. Krog: Pardon me, 87 seats. Th ank you.

With respect to the amendment, is it the intention or belief of the government that those two seats would be focused on the so-called 17 protected seats that are re- ferred to further on in the bill? Or is the concept that this would just apply across the province? Hon. S. Anton: Th ere is no direction. Th e member is correct. Th e Boundaries Commission has discretion as to whether they create two more districts or one more dis- trict or no more districts.

It is entirely up to them where those districts would be placed, although I will say that it is anticipated that they are likely to go where the popula- tion growth has been greater and the ridings are bigger. L. Krog: Th e way I would understand it is that the commission will otherwise, only if it wishes to, increase it from 85 but that the base under this proposal will in fact be 85. In other words, they can't go below 85 seats. Hon. S. Anton: The combined impact of the sec- tion 1 as amended and then

section 3 with the proposed amendment would be that the number of districts would be no less than 85. L. Krog: Just in terms of process today — I look to the Chair for assurance, lest I make any errors that might jeopardize the passage of this bill — we will in fact be dealing with, and will continue to deal with until fi nished, the proposed amendment to

section 1. We will then go on to

section 2 of the bill as it stands and then on to sec- tion 3. Is that correct? Th e Chair: Y es. L. Krog: With respect to the proposed amendment to

section 1, then, the government has chosen to give the commission, arguably, some tiny leeway by increasing the number by two seats from 85 to 87. I guess it begs the obvious question: why change it by two seats as opposed to four, as opposed to ten, as opposed to 200? In other words, what's the rationale behind this amendment? [1500] Hon. S. Anton: Clearly, there is no magic number, or all this would be so easy.

However, government believes that this number, allowing for a possibility of an increase of two seats, strikes the appropriate balance between pro- viding for growth — because parts of the province, in particular, are growing fairly quickly — and also fi scal restraint. Th ere generally is no great desire to grow gov- ernment, but it may be necessary, as seen by the Electoral Boundaries Commission, particularly given fairly robust growth in some parts of the province. L. Krog: I'd appreciate, fi rst, an initial question.

Can the minister confi rm the number of seats in the Alberta Legislature and what the voting population of Alberta is? Hon. S. Anton: Again, there is no magic formula for the amount of representatives compared to the popula- tion of a given entity. Generally, if there's a trend at all, it is that the larger provinces have more population per MLA. L. Krog: I suppose the minister appreciates that she has to keep one eye on this chamber and one eye, pot- entially, on the B.C. Supreme Court at some point, and maybe some higher court as well. Th at's the reason I'm asking the question.

I'm sure that if it ever comes to a judicial challenge to this act — if it passes, amended or unamended — clearly, the courts will be looking very carefully at what is said in this chamber and, particularly, what the Attorney General herself would have to say with respect to the government's rationale for the proposed amendment, let alone the whole bill. I come back to my point. Can the minister advise the House…?

I assume that information is probably read- ily available with the able assistance, I know, of her staff , who I don't think I heard introduced today but I think we all know and recognize as a competent public servant of many years' experience and ability. Again, can the minister advise the House: how many seats in the Alberta Legislature, and what's the popula- tion? Hon. S. Anton: I thank the member opposite for re- minding me of my responsibilities and would like to introduce Mr. Neil Reimer, who is our very expert staff person in this area.

British Columbia Debates3616 Wednesday, May 7, 2014 The populations, numbers of districts and average population per elected representative are set out in our white paper on page 20. Th is was the paper, of course, which sent this question out to British Columbians for consultation. [1505] It shows that British Columbia has 85 districts at the moment, with an average of about 54,000 per district. Alberta has 87 districts with an average of 46,000 per district.

Th en, in declining numbers as the provinces themselves get smaller but in growing numbers as the provinces get bigger: Quebec has about 65,000 per repre- sentative, the House of Commons about 114,000 and Ontario about 126,000. L. Krog: Again, given those numbers and the con- trast, particularly between our closest neighbour in Confederation, the wonderful province of Alberta — a very large geographic mass, perhaps less challenging from a geographic perspective in terms of transportation corridors and access but, nevertheless, similar in size but smaller in population — which has a larger Legislature….

Again, I'm asking the Attorney General if she could provide some cogent explanation, given that this is the government's solution or proposal for reform of the Electoral Boundaries Commission Act, of why only two seats — as opposed to four or as opposed to ten, perhaps, to bring the average voting constituency population in line with the province of Alberta or some other jurisdic- tion in Canada?

We have heard over and over again — well, not as much as we might have, I suppose — from the govern- ment in their explanation of why with this particular bill, with this particular language, the emphasis has been on the fact that they wish to preserve rural representation, a worthy goal that I think all British Columbians support.

As a native-born British Columbian and, frankly, as a family who's been here for many generations, I certain- ly support that concept, but two seats added to 85 seats, with great respect, doesn't seem to me to be a signifi cant increase in relation to what other provinces have in terms of average population per constituency. Again I'm wondering: why two seats, as opposed to four or as opposed to ten, particularly with regard to our comparison to the province of Alberta? Hon. S.

Anton: As I said earlier, I believe that this proposal, this option — we must remember that it's only an option for the Electoral Boundaries Commission — provides a good balance between allowing for growth in British Columbia and allowing for fi scal restraint and not growing government unnecessarily. L. Krog: I appreciate the minister's use of the term "growing government unnecessarily." I'm flattered to think that she believes that all the seats that might be added to the B.C.

Legislature will end up on the govern- ment side of the equation, as opposed to the opposition side, but I'll leave that for another day. Again with respect, this amendment has the same problem, if you will, as exists with the

section itself as it's stated in the act. Th e

section that is proposed to be amended now provides: "If the commission in carrying out its functions under subsection (1) considers that the number of electoral districts in British Columbia should be increased, it may make proposals to the Legislative Assembly to increase the number of electoral districts up to a maximum of 85." Th at's the existing section.

Th e proposed amendment was: "Th e commission must" — mandatory — "make proposals to the Legislative Assembly for 85 electoral districts." Now the proposed amendment that we're dealing with says: "If, in carry- ing out its functions under subsection (1) the commis- sion considers that the number of electoral districts in British Columbia should be increased, the commission may" — permissive — "make proposals to the Legislative Assembly to increase the number of electoral districts up to a maximum of 87." We're still directing the commission.

We're still re- stricting its ability to do its work, because if the com- mission's direction in the

section was simply changed to say that if the commission in carrying out its functions under subsection (1) is entitled to determine the num- bers of boundaries, etc…. Or subsection (1) as it exists now could simply say that the function of the commis- sion is to make proposals to the Legislative Assembly as to the number, area, boundaries and names of the elec- toral districts. [1510] Th at would give the commission free range to come to whatever conclusion it came to, as opposed to what is es- sentially proposed here, which is that the politicians get to make the decision, not the commission.

Th e commis- sion, aft er all, is the independent body. The commission, as the Attorney General is well aware…. I'm going to use committee stage of this bill a little bit by way of educating British Columbians, who I know are interested in this issue because of the number of submissions that have been made and the amount of opposition that exists the way it's worded. Th e commission itself, and this is not proposed to be changed, is…. "Th e Lieutenant Governor in Council must, as required by this Act, appoint an Electoral Boundaries Commission consisting of (

a) a judge or a retired judge of the Supreme Court or the Court of Appeal who is nominated by the Lieutenant Governor in Council," — cabinet — "(

b) a person who is not a member of the Legislative Assembly or an employee of the government and who is nomin- ated by the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly, aft er consultation with the Premier and the Leader of the Offi cial Opposition, and…." In other words, specifically — very specifically — someone who is not a member of the Legislative Assembly. I mean, the act itself as it exists makes it very

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, May 7, 2014 3617 clear that we don't want the politicians interfering with this process. Th at's the way

section 2 now reads. Th en the third: "(

c) the chief electoral offi cer appointed under the Election Act." Now, there is someone who truly is independent. Hired by a unanimous decision of a committee of the B.C. Legislature and approved and recommended to the House, and only then do they get to become the Chief Electoral Offi cer. So what does the act do? Th e act takes the commis- sion entirely out of political control and infl uence or even the appearance of it. I have used the old language many times, the old phrase, in this House on many occasions: "like Caesar's wife" — must not only be above reproach but be seen to be above reproach. Th at's the point of the statute. Th at's the way

section 2 reads now. So when it comes to the commission, we don't even want a sniff of association with the Legislative Assembly by being a member, an employee of the gov- ernment. So the concept behind that is what? Th e concept is to allow the commission free range. Th e concept is to allow the commission to come to its decision based on what it feels is right and proper and appropriate in the context of case law, including Dixon v. British Columbia , 1989, and Reference re Prov. Electoral Boundaries , 1991. Both cases have been accepted and regarded, I think, well by legislatures across this country. What both the proposed

section 1 but, more import- antly…. Speaking specifi cally to the proposed amend- ment to

section 1, this is saying: instead of giving you free range, we are restricting you to 87 seats. Notwithstanding the commission has the full oppor- tunity and ability to look at jurisdictions across Canada and consider other alternatives, and indeed, if the gov- ernment is so interested in reducing costs, to consider reducing the number of seats potentially, if the legisla- tion was so changed, why are we adding two seats and putting a cap on it? Indeed, when you read this in conjunction with the proposed amendment to

section 3 of the bill, which reads: "…the number, which must not be less than 79 85 nor more than 8587…." In other words, you have to have 85 — mandatory, must — but you can't go more than 87. So again — I'm looking for something that's fairly sub- stantive in terms of a response from the Attorney General — why two? Why not four? We have heard in discus- sion in this chamber from members on both sides of the House that they're concerned about rural representation, that that's a real issue for British Columbians.

If that's an important consideration — it can't, un- fortunately, be the paramount consideration — why not leave the commission free to pick the number that it thinks appropriate? It is the commission and the commis- sion through its work, entirely independent of govern- ment, that will go forth around this province and come to a determination as to what is appropriate. So again, why not let the commission determine how many seats? Why include this cap?

Instead of the amend- ment as proposed, why not simply say: "the commission considers that the number of electoral districts should be increased or decreased; the commission may so recom- mend at its discretion"? [1515] Hon. S. Anton: I will start off by mentioning to the member opposite that the Legislature is also a branch of government. Why not just give the commission free rein? Because the act has in fact always prescribed an upper limit. Th e current act, the one that we are amending — I think we'll be amending it one way or the other; we're on the amend- ment on the amendment right now — says 79 to 85.

It gave the commission a range. Before that the upper limit in the act was 79. It is the case that provinces do set limits — either an upper limit or a range — on the number of districts because their legislatures choose to make that policy decision in the same way that the British Columbia Legislature has chosen to make that policy decision over the years. L. Krog: I appreciate that. I think the obvious response is that when you look at the act as a whole…. It's not a very big act. Nevertheless, when you get to

section 2, it's not just about putting a cap on the number of seats. It's directing the commission very specifi cally that it has to protect certain regions of the province, namely the Cariboo-Th ompson region, consisting of fi ve constitu- encies or electoral districts; the Columbia-Kootenay re- gion, consisting of four electoral districts; and the North region, consisting of eight electoral districts or constitu- encies. With respect to what the Attorney General has to say, this legislation goes a great deal further, arguably, than other jurisdictions'.

We know that other prov- inces certainly protect or preserve some rural constitu- encies, but those numbers are relatively slight in terms of number. Saskatchewan protects a couple. We know that Newfoundland protects Labrador. I believe — the Attorney General will certainly correct me if I'm wrong — it's 11 seats in the 103-seat Ontario Legislature that enjoy some protection. But this legislation proposes to protect 17 of now pos- sibly 87 seats, as opposed to 85, as originally proposed. Th at is ballpark, by way of math…. Th e Chair: We're still on the amendment to

section 1. It appears the question is related to

section 2. L. Krog: I'm bringing it back slowly, hon. Chair. Th e Chair: All right.

British Columbia Debates3618 Wednesday, May 7, 2014 [1520] L. Krog: Paid by the word. It's preserving roughly 20 percent of the seats. So again, if the purpose of the legislation is to allow the commission an opportunity to do its work, where do we come up with the concept of increasing it from only 85 to 87, in terms of protecting rural representation, which is surely not the only consideration? Th e court cases have been fairly consistent in terms of saying that the main consideration…. Certainly in the Dixon case, it was the drawing of electoral boundaries: in drawing them, this must be population.

Th at was fairly clear. And in the reference regarding the provincial elec- toral boundaries, Saskatchewan 1991 case, the court held that the right to vote meant having eff ective representa- tion, holding that the "relative parity of voting powers is a prime condition of eff ective representation." Again, how does the arbitrary number of two in fact protect rural representation, as proposed? Hon. S. Anton: As you observed, Chair, it is the next piece that talks about protecting the rural areas, and we will come to that. But I think the specifi c question on this

section is about the possibility of going from 85 to 87. As I said before, that is to provide some room for popu- lation growth while keeping any expansion of the num- ber of districts modest, because of the interest in fi scal restraint, and also not growing government unnecessar- ily, but providing for that balance. It allows for growth but not an endless expansion, if you like, of the Legislature. L.

Krog: Well, then, if the purpose of the proposed in- crease is to allow for population growth, and working on the presumption that the two seats will be added to the unprotected seats — not to the 17 but, in fact, to the re- mainder, which in this case will be 60, as opposed to 58 as was originally proposed in the legislation — then perhaps the minister can provide the House with some numbers or rationale or explanation of what exactly that means in terms of those two seats, potentially, and what sort of numbers we'll be looking at for electors in an electoral district under the legislation, as proposed to be amended, as opposed to under the previous bill.

Hon. S. Anton: If those two seats are to be deployed, that will be up to the Boundaries Commission. What the possibility of adding the two seats does is give them an extra tool in their work in balancing the next set of boundaries for British Columbia. L.

Krog: I appreciate that that's obviously what it will do — arguably, provide this tool to the Boundaries Commission. [1525] But what I'm curious to know is, and the Attorney General can correct me if I'm wrong, working on the assumption these two seats will be added to the rest of British Columbia — the ROBC, if you will; there's a new term for the Leg. — how does that take into account and what are the numbers with respect to growth?

I particu- larly think of the minister sitting behind the Attorney General, who represents one of the Surrey constituencies which has seen signifi cant growth as opposed to other constituencies in the province. In other words, what does this really do in terms of re- ducing the number of seats that have potentially signifi - cant numbers of voters, as opposed to some of the rural seats, as they exist now with their present boundaries, that are referred to in the proposed

section 2 of Bill 2? Hon. S. Anton: Th ese decisions really are going to be up to the Boundaries Commission. Probably they would put the districts where the voters per riding are larger, but we are not off ering any direction as to that. It is really en- tirely up to the commission if and how they use the pos- sibility of two extra seats in the province. V . Huntington: I appreciate the critic giving me this opportunity in the midst of his own questions, given I think he'll be a bit of a while.

I'd like to just perhaps put on the record, in terms of this amendment, how it applies to the legislation itself and specifi cally my concern about both pieces within this discussion, the amendment and the original sec- tion of this bill. I think what we're trying to come to grips with in the House and, obviously, on the government side is: how do we manage population growth within the province of British Columbia, and how should this place refl ect that growth appropriately?

Th ere is real concern in this place about the protection of certain ridings, which will, therefore, have advantage, when you consider the fundamental principles of rep by pop, representation by population. It's giving bene- fi t, therefore, to these ridings that remain protected, and yet this amendment is now suggesting, we hear, that even those protected ridings could be examined, if we were to allow the commission to go up to 87 seats.

Really, what we're dancing around here is that issue of population growth and reasonableness — reasonable representation and reasonable numbers of individuals who are providing that representation to the population of the province. It goes further. Because we're looking at the issue of population growth and how to manage it legitimately within a democracy, we're also looking, as the minis- ter says, at fi scal realities. Y ou can't expect this place to grow ad infi nitum, year aft er year. Even if we do approve an amendment up to 87, in another few years we'll be looking at amendments up to 92 and 95 and 100.

All of a sudden you're looking at a House that needs a new in-

British Columbia DebatesWednesday, May 7, 2014 3619 stitution and the hundreds of millions of dollars it will require to provide that new institution. All we're on is a downward slope that we're not going to get off unless we fundamentally re-examine how we pro- vide adequate representation to the public.

Th at means you're looking at: how do we satisfy taxpayer fatigue in this province and the demands that taxpayers have that their legislators be fi scally conscious in all aspects of their decision-making? [1530] I think that what we're struggling with here, and the fault that we've all had, is that we are not coming to grips with the fundamental question of: how do we keep this place in restraints, if you will? And how do we adequately provide representation? And I am blue-skying this discussion. Does that mean we look at weighted votes in some ways?

Does that mean we do provide protected ridings but recognize that some element of representation has to be provided to the urban sections of the province? Th ose questions are really fun- damental to how we struggle with democracy in this province and in this building. I think that this entire issue properly belongs…. I keep saying this, but I can't think of another issue that more properly belongs in the hands of a committee of elected offi cials themselves — how else? — with experts provid- ing their best advice to that committee.

Unless you're an elected representative, you don't really understand what the struggles are in providing adequate representation to the people. Y ou don't really understand what the job is unless you've been part of it and in it itself. I say with huge respect to offi cials that have been re- sponsible for developing this legislation, in all goodwill and doing the best that they can: they have no idea what our job is on a day-to-day basis. Y ou see it from this side of the House — or in this institution — but you don't see it when we're in a constituency offi ce.

Y ou don't see it when we're walking around our ridings or at diff er- ent events. Th ere is a huge demand. So whether we provide…. Okay. In an urban riding…. If we are brainstorming how we adequately represent and we stay within the structures of similar size, do you weight the votes? Do you provide more funding to the urban riding, to the urban repre- sentatives, so that they can properly have staff that can manage the actual numbers of cases and inquiries that come into the offi ces? Do you provide funding that en- ables them to have two offi ces?

We look aft er rural ridings because of the size of them, but we don't look aft er urban ridings and the pressure they place on the elected representatives. I just feel that, really, the amendment and the original

section itself are failing to come to grips with what truly is the problem, and that is: how do we provide adequate representation into the future without allowing this place to grow exponentially? So I'm struggling with whether to support the amendment or not, because I don't feel either it or the act gets down to what the real problem is.

I guess that if I had my druthers, I would like to say: "Let's pull this act, take a good hard look at what the fun- damental issues really are and come back with something that is modern, is intelligent and is perhaps in the fore- front of modernizing representation in this new world of ours." L. Krog: I appreciate the comments of the member for Delta South, and her remarks. I appreciate — and I do want to publicly thank the Attorney General — the op- portunity to discuss this legislation. Arguably, what the member for Delta South had to say is absolutely true.

Essentially, we are putting off this long-going, outstanding, longstanding, perennial — all of the adjectives you can think of — problem in British Columbia politics. Th at is, we're up against diffi cult geog- raphy and a heavily populated Lower Mainland, a some- what less heavily populated Vancouver Island, and then the rest of British Columbia — the ROBC. I'm starting to love my own term in here. [1535] Th e ROBC is what this act is aimed at. Th e proposed amendment, again, says that in carrying out its functions the commission can consider an increase up to 87. We're left with 85, going up to 87.

Does the Attorney General honestly believe that the mere increase of two seats will enable the commission to come up with boundaries that will withstand a success- ful court challenge? Hon. S. Anton: First of all, I would like to thank the member for Delta South for her comments, because I think they are a good refl ection of the issues facing the Legislature right now and perhaps an argument for a dif- ferent approach in the future. But this is where we are right now, and this is the way this legislation is intended to proceed at the moment. In response to the member for Nanaimo, the pro- posed amendment to

section 1, as I have said a number of times, is intended to strike the right balance between not growing government unnecessarily but allowing for population growth. L. Krog: I'm wondering if there is some opinion or some evidence or some example from another jurisdic- tion in Canada where a similar legislative proposal has been made, passed, and either not challenged or chal- lenged and passed court muster? Hon. S. Anton: Th e options that we are providing here are more similar to Newfoundland's than any other province — closest to Newfoundland's. However, we are not aware of any challenge to the Newfoundland legis- lation. Th ere was a challenge to the Saskatchewan legis-

British Columbia Debates3620 Wednesday, May 7, 2014 lation where, again, government made choices between urban and rural ridings, and their map, their legislation, was upheld. Different provinces choose different ways forward on these. We do believe that, within the diff erent paths which are chosen by governments across Canada, this is very similar to others. We believe that it is a kind of format for the Electoral Boundaries Commission which is appropriate and which does give the commission an option to choose good boundaries for British Columbia, balancing both rural and urban needs. L.

Krog: Th e Attorney General in her response re- ferred to the province of Newfoundland. I'm just wonder- ing if she could explain to the House exactly how many seats are protected in Newfoundland? Did they do it like British Columbia is proposing to do, with an increase in the number of seats and then the protection? Or did the protection precede the increase in the number of seats? Or were they completely unrelated? In other words, what exactly happened there that the Attorney General says hasn't been challenged in the courts and, presumably, is acceptable to the good people of Newfoundland? [1540] Hon. S.

Anton: Th e approaches used by diff erent prov- inces in Canada are set out in the white paper. As the white paper describes, in Newfoundland they chose to protect the four seats which are in Labrador and to main- tain those four seats. L. Krog: I appreciate that the good people of Newfoundland and Labrador are heavily devoted to democracy, having been their own country at one time, so to speak. Having said that, four seats is not 17 seats — a substantive diff erence in numbers, regardless of the diff ering sizes and numbers in the actual legislatures of these two provinces, ours and theirs.

Again, if the approach to helping the commission do its work is to increase by two, which the Attorney General says is chosen because it represents some balance be- tween giving the commission some leeway and, at the same time, what I think the member for Delta South re- ferred to as taxpayer fatigue — cost, in other words, of course arguing always that democracy is expensive — is this in fact the solution that is going to work?

It seems to me, and certainly, I think, to the oppos- ition generally, that the proposal by way of this amend- ment of simply increasing the number of seats by two is not a signifi cant leeway to the commission because of the signifi cant increase in population in the existing electoral districts outside of the 17 that are proposed to be preserved. We know that Surrey is busting at the seams and enjoy- ing, unfortunately, all of the problems that come with rapid growth.

We know that the city of Vancouver is con- tinuing to densify, lane houses and every other kind of method of allowing for further density, because they're running out of land. Again, I come back to it, and I'm looking for something quite specifi c on the numbers if the Attorney General has that available. Given that we're preserving these 17 and looking at the population increase in British Columbia since the last Electoral Boundaries Commission sat and looking at the average numbers of voters in those elec- toral districts, is this in fact any real solution whatsoever?

In other words, when you're preserving so many — the 17 — and by this amendment allowing a further two to water down, if you will, or dilute the signifi cant popula- tions of the remaining electoral districts, is that in fact going to be enough? For instance, is there an opinion, a legal opinion…? I appreciate the Attorney General will probably tell me she's not going to share it if she had it. But is there some form of legal opinion or has there been appropriate ad- vice received that would indicate that this in fact will withstand a constitutional challenge?

I think that's an important question because we know that there are a number of groups in this province who have all indicated signifi cant opposition to this bill. Th e majority of the 63 public submissions received by govern- ment were opposed to the contents of the bill. [1545] Other opponents include the well-respected organ- ization IntegrityBC, COPE Union, TWU, CUPE. Th e B.C. Civil Liberties Association opposed the retention of the lower-population seats during the last redistribu- tion process.

In other words, is there some concrete evidence by way of an opinion that says what in fact we're going to do will withstand a constitutional challenge? Because if it's not, then what are we doing here? Hon. S. Anton: I am confi dent that the amendments that we are proposing will stand up to scrutiny. A. Weaver: I recognize the opposition to this bill, and I do appreciate the amendment being brought forward. I will support the amendment. I will say that I'm surprised that this bill is being brought to the Legislature today because we've hea

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20140507pm-Hansard-v12n3
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20140507pm Hansard v12n3
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	d80d195e5d69e6598b25bed412da231f6c569889

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