* Proceedings of the House of Assembly During the Fourth Session of the Thirtieth General Assembly of Newfoundland . 1 954 PRINTED IN CANADA av GUARDIAN LIMITED. 9,T. JOHN·s. Nfl"LD.

PROCEEDINGS of the FOURTH SESSION of the THIRTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND WEDNESDAY, March 24, 1954. The House met at 3:00 p.m. His Honour the Lieutenant Gover­ nor delivered the following Speech from the Throne: MR. SPEAKER AND MEMBERS OF THE HONOURABLE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY: Since you last met all the people of the Commonwealth and Empire have been deeply moved by the crowning of a new Monarch as Queen and Head of the Commonwealth. The acces­ sion of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second to the Throne constituted a brilliant milestone in the magnifi­ cent &tory of the British race and its partners.

The Coronation itself and the many celebrations that marked it drew to the centre of the Common­ wealth and Empire tens of thousands of men and women from all par,ts of the globe to share, as representatives of tens of millions, in the historic cmwning of the Queen. My Prime Minister and my Minister of Education shared with me the privilege and honour of representing you and all the people of this Province in those mighty events.

In conformity wHh my Govern­ ment's policy of encouraging the de­ velopment of the natural resources of the Province, and in keeping with my Speech to you of about a year ago, my Government have procured the appointment of a Royal Commission on Agriculture. Distinguished men have accepted appoin1rnenL lo this Commission, and several specialists in particular aspects of ag-riculture have been brought to Newfoundland to assist the Commissioners.

Members and officials of Lhe Commission on Agriculture have travelled widely throughout Newfoundland and have devoted themselves industriously to the task of investigating all the prob­ lems of agricullure in this Province. My Ministers look forward eagerly to the receipt of the report and recom­ mendations of ,the Commission, for they hope that these recommendations will form the basis of a firm and practical policy for the more rapid upbuilding of ag-riculture in all its branches.

The Royal Commission on Forestry has more recently been appointed, and again my Ministers have been fortunate in securing the services of men who are noted for their experi­ ence and ability in this field. My Ministers hope ,that from the report and recommendations of the Royal Commission on Forestry there will emerge a clear and practical forestry policy that they can follow with con­ fidence and resolution.

4 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS My Government hold the view that these two Royal Commissions are amongst the most important bodies ever brought into existence in New­ foundland, and they a re sparing no expense to ensure that exhaustive and thoroughly competent investigations will result.

Our forests already are th e means of providing a living for a large number of our people, and there is not alone the problem of ascertain­ ing whether larger numbers might be supported by our for est wealth, but the even more important question of discovering whether those who at present 1-ive by the forests may con­ tinue to do so. Agriculture, in the widest possible meaning of the word, and including not merely ground­ crops and gras ses; bur fruits , livestock , poultry, and fur-bearing animals, al­ ready provides a living for a consid­ erable number of people.

My Minis­ ters fervently hope, that their belief that agriculture could support many times the present number, will be well borne out by the report and recommendations of the Commission. AgriculturP, fon,.~try, and fisheries (to which I shall refer at greater length in a moment) together support the great majority of our population.

While I believe that all will welcome other industries, and other sources of income for our people, I believe also that there will be general agreement that the long-run prosperity of New­ foundland depends mainly upon the continued expansion of her fisheries, forest indu stries and agriculture. I feel it unnecessary, in view of the great efforts being made and the great sums of money being expended, to do more than merely mention to­ day the significance of the mines and mineral resources of the Province .

It is a matter of common knowledge that provision is made, in the Terms of Union of Newfoundland with Can­ ada, for the appointment by the Gov­ ernment of Canada of a Royal Com­ mission to review the effect of Con­ federation upon the finances of New­ foundland as a Provinc e of Canada. The reasons for this provision, and the governing conditions, are set forth in the relevant Term. My Ministers realize the importance of this matter and they are resolved to be prepared adequately to present Newfoundland's case in the review.

To this end they have invited several well-known citi­ zens to accept membership in a special Commission that will organize and supervise the preparation of Newfoundland's case. T am sure that you have been favourably impressed hy the willingness of such prominent citizens to accept membership in the special Commission. They will have the good wishes of all in ,this Pro­ vince as th ey perform this vital service on behalf of Newfoundland. You will be asked to consider a new Election Act aud a new Redistribution Act.

In the view of my Ministers the most important business to be laid before you this session is a Bill to auth­ orize the creation o.f a :Fisheries Development Authority. Almost one half of our people arc more or less directly dependent upon the fisheries for their livelihood. Due to a num­ ber of causes the fisheries are lan­ guishing, and the great est single need in Newfoundland's economy is some plan for the rehabilitation of the fishermen.

It was for this reason that my Ministers urged upon the Gov­ ernment of Canada the wisdom of having both Governments join in the creation of a Fisheries Development Committee. This Committee, which worked for about two years, produced one of the most notable economic

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 5 documents, quite possibly the most notable, ever produced in Newfound­ land. The report and recommend­ ations of the Fishe1·ies Development Committee constitute a practical guide for the development of our fisheries, and my Ministers have adopted them for that purpose. It is the view of my Ministers that many millions of dollars will have to be spent this year and next year and for some years thereafter -to carry out ·the recom­ mendations of the Fisheries Develop• ment Committee.

Great skill and great care will be needed in the supervision of this spending, and my Government are convinced of the need for a board or body of men of first-class experience and ability in this field. They are confident that in the members of the recently created Fisheries Development Authority they have men who possess these high qualifications.

The Fisheries Develop· ment Authority will be charged with control and supervision of -the spend­ ing of a great many millions of dol­ lars in fishery development, and at the same time they will be charged with the responsibility of a close watching-brief, in my Government's behalf, in the day-to-day and week-to­ week operation of the many fishery enterprises that their supervision and control will have brought into exist­ ence .

It is extremely doubtful wheth­ er a small group of men in Newfound­ land were ever before called to exer­ cise personal control over so many affairs of economic and financial im­ portance as will come under the supervision of this body. You will be invited to make pro· vision for th~ needs o.f the Public Service and -to grant Supply to Her Majesty . MR. SPEAKER AND MEMBERS OJ• THE HONOURABLE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY: I am confident that you will give these and all matters that come be­ fore you, your most careful attention, and I pray that Providence will guide and bless your labours. MR. M. M.

HOLLETT (Leade r of the Opposition) : Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present to you William Joseph Browne , Member for the Electoral District of St. John's ·west. Mr. Browne has taken the oath and has signed the roll and now awaits your Honour's pleasure to assume his seat iu this Honourable House. Presenting Petitions None. P1·esenting Reports of Standing and Select Committees None. Giving Notice of Motion HON. L. R. CURTIS (Attorney General) : Mr. Speaker, I ask leave to introduce a Bill entitled; A Bill "An Act to Amend -the

Interpretations Act." Bill read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. MR. SPEAKER : I have to inform the Honourable House that as of 3:00 o'clock this afternoon His Honour the Lieutenant Governor most graci­ ously presided over and opened the Fourth Session of the 30th General Assembly of Newfoundland, at which time His Honour delivered a most gracious Speech from the Throne. For the purpose of accuracy I have now obtained a copy and will now read it to the House.

6 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS The Speech from the Throne read by the Clerk. Orders of the Day Address in Reply : M,R. MERCER : :\fr. Speaker, I rise al this time to move that a com­ mittee be appointed lo draft an Ad­ ,lress in Reply to the Speech with which His Honour the Lieutenant Governor has been so graciously pleased to open this session of this Honourable House. It gives me very 111uch pleasure, Mr. Speaker, to do so. I can assure the House that I am truly grateful for the honour which the Premier has conferred upon me.

I realize, of course, that in granting me this honour today he mu.st have had in mind the great and important part the constituency generally and in particular some ol' her ctistinguisheri sons made in the development of this country from the great and historic district of Port de Grave which I have the honour to represent. It is on behalf of myself personally and on hd1a 1f nf the rl ist.ricl of Port de Grave that I acknowledge this honour. Now, Sir, 1 was very pleased to note the reference to Her Most Gracious Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.

This being the first session of this House since her gracious coronation I again renew my allegiance to Her Majesty and I humbly express our best wishes for a long, happy anti peaceful reign. May success crown the remainder of that terrific undertaking in the globe encircling journey of Her Majesty and the Duke of Edinburgh. May God speed them Lo a safe return home. It was with much pleasure too, M1'.

Speaker, that I noted in His Honour's speech a reference to the view held by the Government that the two Royal Commissions, on Forestry and Agriculture, arc, in the mind of the Government, the most important commissions ever to have been ap­ pointed in Newfoundland. T realize, Sir, that it will be said, perhaps in the not too distant future, by certain people, that such commissions have been appointed al various intervals down through the ages, and therefore there should be no special significance attached to the creation of these two commissions during the past year by the Government.

But, Sir, I note something particular or it might even be spectacular a,bout the appointment of these two commissions : In the first place not only arc the commis­ sioners themselves, according to the Speech from the Throne, experts in their respective fields, but they have been and will be assisted by other experts in the various rields which they are investigating. ln the second place we have the assurance in His Honour's Speech that this Govern­ ment will spare no expense to con­ tinue and assure the existence of the Commission, and I think in 1111' wnrrts of the speech; "until exhaustive and thorough, competent investigations will result." I am sure there will be g·eneral agreement in this House and through­ out the count1·y that the Govern­ ment is well justified in spending any amount of money necessary to con­ tinue these two commissions until they do complete a thorough and competent investigation particularly into the possibility of enlarging what I will call our present agricultural sideline undertakings, and change them into real industries which may be a great source of additional em­ ployment for our people; and second­ ly investigate into ' the be.st measures to be taken in order to assure con-

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 7 servation of our present timber re­ sources, and find out the best methods of reforestation in order to continue with our present employment in the forest industries, and perhaps increase ·them in this Province. Their efforts to what I might refer to as external administration in that these Bills will help to simplify and modernize the methods of electing members to this House, and at -the same time make the representation in this House more equitable.

Now, Sir, if there is one thing that can be singled out in the Speech from the Throne which would be ca Ued really great, or greatest of all, -then I say that the greatest of all from the Speech from the Throne to­ day emanates from the last paragraph of the Speech with regard to the fisheries. Because this Speech today serves notice ·to this House and in­ deed to the country generally that the Government will this year and for years to come concentrate much of their time and effort and money upon the fishing industry.

Tha-t notice, Sir, in effect states that the Government realizes that the greatest single need in Newfoundland's econ­ omy today is a plan to help the fishermen earn a better living. People generally will agree, I am sure, that it was a very wise decision taken by the Government to have the Royal Commission appointed some three years ago to deal with a fishery in­ vestigation. It was two years before a report could ,be completed by that Commission, and it has been another year since -it was received.

During that year top level discussions have been held between the Government of the Province and the Federal Govern­ ment. I am sure it will also be agreed that during this three year period it was useless for the Government to spend any money worthwhile on the fishery because it would be merely working in the dark. During that period the Government concentrated on what has now •become known as the "New Industries." Now, the Speech from the Throne says the Government will concentrate this year and for years to come on the fishery industry. I feel sure, Mr.

Speaker, if this Government, with its well known driving force, concentrates on the fishing industry of this coun­ try, this year and in the years to come, and with the co-operation of the fishermen and the trade, there will be no doubt about its successful outcome. But we should and must get the co-operation of all people concerned in all phases of the in­ dustry.

In conclusion, Sir, I would like to say that even if no other work is brought before this House during this session than those things men­ tioned in the Speech from the Throne, particularly that part of it dealing with the fishing industry, and if we can as a body discuss and deal with it intelligently, then, Sir, I say, this session will be one of the most pro­ fitable ever known in the history of Newfoundland. Mr.

Speaker, I move a committee ·be appointed to dra.ft an Address in Reply ·to the Speech with which His Honour the Lieutenant Governor was so graciously pleased to open this session of this Honourable House. MR. NORMAN : Mr. Speaker, I rise for the purpose of seconding the motion that has been proposed by my honourable friend. I do not intend to go over the ground that he has covered, and I shall not delay the House by taking up every point dealt wi-th in the Speech from the Throne.

8 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS The1·e is, however, one would like to touch upon. matter I In speak- ing on this subject T know I hat I am v01cmg the opinions of the grea I majority of the people I represent in this House-I refer Lo the fisheries- The Speech with which His Honour the Lieutenant Governor opened this House today deals with Lhe fact thal the most important business to come before this session is the fishery legis­ la I ion that will be laid before us.

This is legislation having· to do with the recently appointed fisheries de­ velopment authority. 1 am delighted that the fisher)' is 10 come in for such discussion in Lhis session. I am sure all our fishermen will be de­ lighted to know their industry is to receive such consideration and debate. Mr. Speaker, it would be a short­ sighted 11ta11 iudeed who would dis­ ntiss our j1uptHlc11Ll i11du.stdes, ou1· mines, our agriculture, These are imporLant sources of wealth and they g·ive a living Lo a great number of our people. It is nol necessary to under­ estimate them nor pooh-pooh them.

No matter how strongly we may feel about the fisheries we can still admit the importance of the forestry, fields and mines. The more mineral de­ velopment we have the better, the more agricultural development and forest development the heller. ,\ t the same time we must remember that one half of our population gets its Ii ving from the fishery, or, if they do not get it wholly from the fisheries they get the bnlk of their living. The majority of us in this House have been · sent here from fishing districts where the fishermen are in the majority.

The membership of this House represents about twenty-five districts altogether. About nineteen of these districts are districts in which the fisheries are the principal industry of the people. The fishing districts can make or break a govern­ ment in any general election that may take place in this Province. l am glad thal the two govern­ ments have adopte,l a policy of close and friendly co-operation in fishery mattei-s.

I refer to the Government of Canada and the Government of Newfoundland, The two govern­ ments g·ot tog·ether about three years ago and decided Lo act together to set up the Fishery Development Com­ mittee under the chairrna·nship o[ Sil· Albert i·Valsh. 1 expect we al 1 awaited their report with a g-reat deal of impatience. I can speak for myself and say that found it very hard indeed to exercise patience while they did their investigating· and wrote their report.

T am glad today they look lhe Li1ne necessary to do a 1·ea 1 jo!J of i11vesligati11g· for ii would· have been a real tragedy if they had stinted time or tremble to do a real job. It is now and in the future we will benefit from the fact that they Look time, all the lime they needed, when they had the chance. I fully agree with what Lhe Speech from the Throne says about Lhe great respon­ sibility that lies upon the shoulders of the newly appointed Fishery De­ velopment Committee. Sure it is a tremendous job that they are under­ taking.

It would be a very plain and simple job if they had to take over the management o[ the biggest fishery fa·m in Newfoundland. At least it would be a simple and easy job compared with what they would have to do and will have to do in the years at hand. I doubt very much whether there are many in this House today who would like to be in their shoes. They will be respon­ sible for examining in detail every proposal for fishery development pro-

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 9 posed by the government or by priv­ ate enterprise. lt will be their task to break down every application for financial assistance to examine it in close detail and decide whether the proposed plan is worth going ahead with. Their "Yes" may decide the fate of many fishing settlements along our far-flung coast, their "No" may spell disaster to dozens of places. It is a responsibility that I would not wish to carry, Mr. Speaker. I respect and admire this present Government for their fishery policy.

They could have rushed in before they were ready; they could have gone ahead without consulting the Government of Canada. Instead of doing so Lhey kept ·in very close and friendly touch with Ottawa. vVhat they are doing today they are doing after very close consultations with the national capital. I respect their decision to entice very experienced and able men away from private in­ dustry to take charge of the actual carrying out of their fishery develop­ ment programme.

I expect there will still be many failures, many dis­ appointments and many heart-breaks before our fisheries have been fully re-organized and fully developed. Anyone who thinks that progress will be steady and unbroken is doomed to disappointment. There will have to be many attempts and experiments and many failures before we can be sure that we •are on the rig·ht road. I have heard it said that it will cost a hundred million dollars to get our fisheries really organized and really on their feet, and I can well believe it.

I do not begrudge a dollar of it. \,Vho is to look for perfection and look for perfection immediately? \Vise men know it is not given to mortal men to be perfect, and this great effort to rebuild our fisheries will be marked by some failures. As these failures become known, and the mis­ lakes become apparent, shallow minds will take full advantag·e of hindsight and will be able to say "I told you so." \Vise and thoughtful men will lake careful note of the mistakes and failures and try not to repeat them. They know they will make mistakes but they will try nol to make the same mistake twice. Mr.

Speaker, as the elected repre­ sentative in this House of the great fishing district of Burgeo and La Poile I am sincerely delighted this year of 1954 to see the launching of the fishery development programme. I say it is not a year nor a month too soon. The fishermen had begun lo be very discouraged indeed, but I be­ lieve the tide has turned. It has been given to this present Liberal Govern­ ment of Newfoundland to launch many good things for our people, and now once again, it is their pro­ vince to do something for the fisher­ men.

I shall back them in it through thick and thin and I believe every­ body on this side of the House will do the same. I have great pleasure in seconding the motion. MR. SPEAKER : The motion is that a committee be appointed to draft an Address in Reply to the Speech from the Throne. MR. HOLLETT: Mr.

Speaker, in rising in support of the motion, shall I say, ably moved by the honourable member for Port de Grave and even probably more ably seconded by the honourable member for Burgeo and LaPoile, I wish, on behalf of our Opposition to couple with theirs, our loving thoughts and our gratitude for our Gracious Sovereign and all that

10 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS she means to us in this (Oun try and in this Commonwealth. Yes, Mr. Speaker, we couple our feelings with theirs in a sentimental manner in re­ gard to our beloved Sovereign. We are loyal to Her, we love Her. We may say, Mr. Speaker, we have not the same love for Her Majesty's Gov­ ernment here in :\'ewfoundland. That is not to say, Mr. Speaker, that we hate Her Majesty's Government.

We give Lhc111 all Lhe respect which they are entitled to, and I arn quite sure that they are entitled to some, and we gladly hand out thal respect and we appreciate many, many things which the Government of Lhc day has done for the people of Newfoundland in the past four or five years. l am glad that the seconder of the motion has stated that they are not unmindful of the mistakes and fail­ ures which the Government has made. They say that all wise men make mis­ takes and failures. I take it there­ fore, Mr. Speaker, that all good governments make mistakes and fail­ ures.

However, they have had some crowning achievements, Sir, but un­ fortunately in the Speech from the Throne today I have not noticed one remark about these crowning achieve­ ments of this Liberal Government. To me, Mr. Speaker, the Speech, and I am not going into any detail on the Speech, Sir, the time is not ripe at the moment for that. To me, Sir, and I think to our Opposition too, the Speech sounds somewhat, shall I say, "Fishy." "Fish," ""Fish," "Fish," that is all that has been talked about in this Speech from the Throne. I believe they did mention having ap­ pointed a couple of Commissions. That is correct.

But we do share with the mover and seconder many oE the thoughts they have expressed about the fishery. We do hope that in this coming session, much of our time and thoughts will be devoted to the development of our fisheries, Mr. Speaker, althought it seems to me that almost like Pontius Pilot they have washed their hands of the fishery and passed it over to the "Federal Government in Ottawa if things we hear from tlay to day are correct. However, we shall not wash our hands of the fisheries, Mr.

Speaker, and we of the Opposition will join with the Government in every move they put forward to benefit the people in many hundreds of our fishing settlements around our coast. The honourable member who mov­ ed the motion, Sir, when he saw me as I escorted our newly elected member for St. John's "\,Vest into this House tnday, 11111st hav<' ha<I some feeling possibly of regret, for, if I recollect, l clict hear the honourabie member stand up in another place and say such wonder[ul and excellent things about our newly elected mem­ ber for St. John's West.

I feel quite sure that he must. have had a heart t.remor tocfay as T escorted our newly elected member in on the opposite side of the House. I am glad, Sir, I had that honour IOday. I have known the member we brought in here today as a man for many years. This man, Sir, is highly educated, at St. Bon's, Victoria College in Toronto, he was a Rhodes Scholar and was elected as a Jubilee Scholar prior to that. He was a Rhodes Scholar at Oxford and was elected to the bar at London and came back here and was elected. And, would you believe, Sir, thirty years ago he walked in here for the first time as a member.

In 1925, Sir, I believe, this House was honoured by his presence and it appears we are doubly honoured today, and we

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 11 are proud that St. John's West put out that feeling which made our honourable Premier hesitate to put in a man in St. John's West against our newly elected man here. I am very proud of the addition to our Op­ position, Sir, and I am quite sure he can help us in our deliberations here in regard to the fisheries and all other matters of government of this country. It is a happy augury, Sir, that we have been able to increase our strength

whereas the Government on the opposite side have not been able to increase theirs. We have in­ creased our strength at least by one, and I am quite sure we have increased it in many other ways. We are with the Government in everything they do for industry, not only, Sir, for the fishery and agricul­ ture and mines, but others also. I be­ lieve we have backed them on certain economic development which they had aforetime undertaken and about which very little -has been said by the mover and secon·der of the motion. ,ve shall have more to say about that as time goes on.

However, Sir, not to delay this House, I wish to join on behalf of the Opposition with the mover and seconder in setting up this committee, and we hope, Sir, when this year draws to a close the happy sunshine of prosperity will shine down on this little country of ours even as today, Sir, the sun of Heaven has shone down almost for the first time in this year of Our Lord 1954. I thank you, Mr. Speaker. HON. J. R. SMALLWOOD (Prime Minister): Mr. Speaker - MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Premier will close the debate. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr.

Speaker , I would _ like to add my congratula ­ tions . to .those already expressed to the honourable gentleman who moved the motion now before you, and to the honourable gentleman who sec­ onded that motion. I have taken par­ ticular notice of the fact that ever since parliamentary government was restored to Newfoundland, this House has been especially fortunate in the quality of the speaking that has taken place here. I have followed the move­ ments of this House and the business of it for quite some years, as a news­ paper man before I entered it five years or so ago as a member.

So that I am somewhat familiar with the qual­ ity of the speaking that has taken place here for some thirty years past. These past five years compare, I as­ sure you, more than favourably with the thirty before. I, like my honourable friend the Leader of the Opposition , will not go into any of the details of the Speech from the Throne. That is another innovation I have noticed in this Chamber in the past five years . Be­ fore that it was the practice on open­ ing day for the Leader of the Opposi­ tion to review the Speech from the Throne at some considerable length, sometimes taking as much as an houT to do it.

It was usually a very strong speech which attacked the Govern­ ment in terms, I assure you , much more vehement and much more en­ thusiastically than those adopted by my honourable friend here today. But in these past five years, beginning with one of the Leaders of the Opposi­ tion, one of the long procession of leaders they have had in those past four or five years, (it was the first or second or it might have been the third or fourth of the string of leaders) that began the rather strange practice of dismissing the motion on opening day with a few cursory remarks (and I will have a word "Cursory" under-

12 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS stood in its proper meaning). There­ fore I will follow my honournble friend's example and deal in no de­ tail whatsoever with the S'pecch from the Throne beyond saying, as it is my duty and great pleasure to say, that I join in the sentiments expressed in the Speech from the Throne and re­ echoed by the two honourable gentle­ men on this side and by the Honour­ able Leader of the Opposition about Her Majesty the Queen.

I had the honour of sharing with my colleague the Honourable Minister of Educa­ tion, the pl"ivilege of attending the Coronation on behalf of the Govern­ ment of Newfoundland. The Hon­ ourable the Minister of Municipal Af­ fairs also attended the Coronation but. nol: as a representative of the Govern­ ment. He attended as a representa­ tive of the ,var Veterans of New­ foundland. So that there were three of us from this side who had the great privilege of being present at the Cor­ onation of Her Majesty the Queen.

I am glad that I became Premier of Newfoundland if, for no other reason than that, holding that office, it also gave me that opportunity. I don't suppose I will ever live long enoug·h to see the like again. l•ew in this Chamber perhaps this afternoon will live long enough to see another Cor­ onation. At least we pray that it will he many, many years before another occurs.

T •hereforc I shall always appre­ ciate it as one of the greatest moments of my life, that I was privileged to sit in the very heart of the British Com­ monwealth, \Vestminster Abbey, where all the monarchs have been crowned for a great many years. The ,yorld is changing and so great nMions have sprung up in l_ate years; Russia is one of the greatest nations the world has ever known, great in size, in wcallh. iii strength; the United States of Am- erica the grea-test nation the world has ever known in size, in wealth and strength, and other great nations.

The Mother Country of this Commonwealth has gone down, gone down greatly since the war, but there is some evi­ dence of her climbing back again. I, like most of us, have refused to be­ lieve that the great spirit that is the heart of the British can ever lie long· prnstrate or in the dust .

I learned a little more during that visit of what it means to be British, of the pride that one might quite legitimately take without cheap sentiment, cheap flag waving, with honest pride, deep down pride which a man may take in the fact that he is British, that he sprang· from these two little islands, England, Scotland and ·wales which makes one of them and Ireland North and South the other, that he sprang from that kind of stock. We, of that stock, like lo feel Lhat the greatness t-hat is the United States had much the same origin.

I noted carefully what my ·honour­ able friend said: "That they are not irt love with Her Majesty's Govern­ ment in Newfoundland." I am dis­ appointed to hear that. I have yearned so for the Jove of the Opposition, I have needed the encouragement that would have given me, and we all feel the need of it, I am quite sure, on this side of the House . I noted loo what my honourable friend said about the mover and sec­ onder of the motion, their failure to mention the new industries.

He asks: "Is it in fact 'Fishy'?" That was the word he used "Fishy." My friend is going to hear so much about fish in this session that he will feel like a fish before it is through. But I was in­ terested in noticing that a note of disappointment w,ith the Speech from the Throne by my two honourable

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 13 friends about no reference to the new industries. "All we have heard about," he said, "is fish, fish." Now in the previous years during which he has been here the same honourable gen­ tleman has complained that all the talk was about new industries and there was nothing about fish. His com­ plaint was that he could not get the Government to talk about fish and all they would talk about was new in­ dustries . Today his complaint is that all .the talk is about fish.

Whal the honourable gentleman never seems ro understand 'is that this is the way thi~ Government works. ,vhen we go at fish, we go at fish, blood, brawn and brain, everything we have, just as when we went into new industries we went into it with everything we had. We are a one-track government, we take one thing at a time, mop it up, clean it up. If it is the Opposition we clean them up, if it is a by-elec­ tion we go in and w'in. MR. HOLLETT: Why did you not? MR. SMALLWOOD: I will deal with that now. I will tell my hon­ ourable friend why. MR.

SPEAKER : Let me here ask the visitors to restrain themselves from making any comment. MR. SMALLWOOD: I had in- tended in any case to offer very sin­ cere congratulations to the honour­ able member (the senior or junior member for St. John's ·west, I am not sure which. Where and when I use the term I refer to age and not in order of the position or honour or academic prestige or standard of education, but I refer always to age. I am not sure which is the senior and which is the junior member) I refer now to the more recently elected of the two.

I congratulate him on his election and welcome him here quite sincerely because, when I am called away from this House or call myself away from it, I should like to leave behind in it some assurance at least that the traditions of 1he House will be carried on. I am supposed to be the one who sold and hocked the "Pine Clad Hills," . sold out our in ­ dependence, gave away the glorious traditions of Newfoundland. I am supposed to be that "Judas Iscariot" which was the name put on me in thi.~ very Chamber by a gentleman who sat on the Opposite side of the House but who is no longer here, I regret to say.

He added at least to the colour of this House and some­ what to the gaiety of the nation. But if he were here my honourable friend recently elected could not be here, they could not apparently both be here. But I happen lo -be one who treasures the very considerable tradi­ tions of this House, and one of these traditions undoubtedly is that there should be an opposition. There was not one but now I believe there is one. There was not one but I believe that the honourable gentleman, the recently elected member for St.

John's ·west, is in himself an opposition be­ cause of a number of things; because of his educational qualifications to which my honourable friend referred. He is twice a university man, the University in Toronto from which he graduated, I -believe, in civil engineer­ ing. (Incidentally he will need all his engineering ability in dealing with his new colleagues in this House) . He is a graduate of the University of Oxford where he was a Rhodes Scholar. I believe he was graduated in a branch of learning, exactly what I don't know, law or something leading up to law. So that

14 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS he is a man undoubtedly of great education, few in this House if any, can equal him in that regard. He .is a man of great energy, a worker. I like him for that. He is a worker, he works, he is not afraid of work. He is a student, reads and studies and is not afraid to take a document and ,read study and master and under­ stand it. I like that about him. He is the first member of the Opposition in the five years who will have tackled his work as a member of the Opposi­ tion with a sense of his mission and a sense of duty.

No other member has done so, The other members of the Opposition from the day this House was re.~tored, five years ago, no other member has given his duty a thought until he walked into the Chamber-perhaps that is going too far- MR. HOLLETT : Mr. Speaker , I rise to a point of order- MR. SMALLWOOD: I withdraw it. MR. HOLLETT : I only do so on behalf of my learned colleagues. IL is my duty. MR. SMALLWOOD: I withdraw it unreservedly.

But I have heard many speeches in this Chamber dur­ ing the .five years that suggested powerfully to me that those who spoke had not given a thought to the matter until they got on their feet, judging only from the content and quality. The inference would be they had never given the matter a single moment's thought until they stood up; and I have stood in this Chamber on at least twenty-five occasions and pleaded with the Opposition to de­ bate as Bill after Bill after Bill went through this House without a solitary syllable coming from the Opposition side. MR. HOLLETT : under your thumb . We are not MR.

SMALLWOOD: The Opposi­ tion does not need to be under the thumb of the Leader of the Govern­ ment to speak, debate and add their contribution. That is what they are here for. If legislation comes before Mr. Speaker, it is as much the duty of the Opposition to debate it, ham­ mer it out, thrash it out, discuss and analyze it as it is the duty of any member on this side . I say; repeated­ ly the Opposition failed to do it.

While the "Daily News" and the "Evening Telegram" condemned this Government for muzzling· the Op ­ position, we sat here with a sense of futility over Lhe complete [ailure of out· efforts to provoke the Opposition illlo Laking

part in debates. Every newspaperman knows that to be true and every member of this House. Now, that won't be so if I know my honourable friend the newly elected member for St. John's West. I know his record, and I believe my knowledge goes back beyond any hon­ ourable colleague of his at this mo­ ment. He is a worker. We worked together ourselves many years ago in drafting a Workmen's Compensation Act. Perhaps he knows that I have had the privilege since then as head of the Government of introducing that Bill and it now is a law of the land .

My honourable friend was not aware that twenty odd years ago, his new colleague, and I collaborated in the drafting of a modern Workman's Compensation Bill which the Govern­ ment of that day, of which he was a strong supporter in this House at that time, had promised to introduce, and indeed it was mentioned in the Speech from the Throne . Nevertheless they failed to introduce it so that it was left to this administration to bring it

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 15 before the House and seek its enact­ ment. If the honourable gentleman did not gain a great deal from his membership in this House, I am sure he has gained a great deal from his membership in the House of Commons in the past five years. He will notice many changes here compared with when he was here before.

He will notice that the vandals, the betrayers of Newfoundland, the hockers of the South Side Hills, the vendors of the pine clad hills and our glorious traditions, are the Government who have made at least some little effort to collect and put on display some little symbolism of the greatness of the past. I don't know if my hon­ ourable friend has been in the Chamber before today or yesterday? If he has he has noticed these paint­ ings. It was the vandals who did this, the destroyers of Newfound­ land's traditions. He will see the Premiers of Newfoundland here upon the walls, the speakers and the pre­ miers.

If we are spared he will see other evidence in this building as time goes on that this Government does honour and prize the best of our traditions of the past. I am glad for the Opposition's sake that he is here. I.f I were the Leader now of the Opposition I think my joy would be ,rather mixed with dread and apprehension. I think that would be so if I were the Leader. MR. · HOLLETT: You are sus­ picious. MR. SMALLWOOD: As I remem­ ber ,he is the third in the line. As I remember the fact of the-I don't remember whether it was three, four or five, I get mixed up. I have to be told how many leaders there -have been.

Like the parent party in Ot­ tawa, in my own personal recollection I have known three leaders of the "Tory" party in Ottawa. I well re­ member Gordon Graydon when he was the leader and John Bracken and now Mr. Drew-three leaders within seven or eight years. So that, if I were the present Leader of the Opposition, if a man who is a parliamentarian, a student, a worker and an educated man of great industry and patience and great determination, I may say that with such a man as that be­ coming my colleague, I assure you, Mr.

Speaker, I would not sleep much at night wondering who is to be the next leader, if it would be I or the new man with five years' experience in Ottawa. As far as we are concerned on this side of the House anyone they care to select as leader will be quite acceptable to us. We will be glad to have anyone of the five of them as leader. But my honourable friend wanted to know why we . did not contest St. John's West. I will tell you now.

I will be very candid about it and very frank: If we had gone up and taken this district in this by-election, my honourable friends would still be four, and certain people who should be nameless for the moment, certain people who have been on the pivot, penny-on-edge, as to whether to con­ tinue to support this Opposition as the Opposition to the present Liberal Party or to scrap it and oreate a new one would, I think, have slipped down on one side if we had gone up and taken this election as we could -have done so easily. vVe had done it in August so there was no reason we could not have done it a few weeks later.

If, then, these important people who had been considering whether they would continue to support the present Opposition as the Opposition to this Government or create a new

16 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS one, would have slipped, I think, away from their support of the pres­ ent party and who knows, perhaps a stronger party might have emerged. So I said to myself; "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know." "The Opposition you have may disappear and perhaps another be created." So I said; "Let us give this thing support, let us give them an­ other man." Nnw ·we were in some doubt as to who that man would be. We thought it might be the man it turned out to be and we thought it might be a former colleague of his in the opposite end of the City.

They both had found themselves suddenly suspended between winds and water, both of them parliamentarians with no parliament, politicians with no politics. So we kept our fingers crossed and said; "\Vhichever it will be it will strengthen the Opposition some." Mr. Speaker, along with aJl the other assistance we have given, all the effort, all the concern for the things introduced to this House, now you must add another, our determin­ ation that we would create an op­ position where there was not one.

We will now watch and if it should be necessary for them to have one more member, say, I think even that could be arranged. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : Moved and sec­ onded that a committee be appointed to draft an Address in Reply to the Speech from the Throne. Motion carried. The following members will com­ prise the committee: Honourable member for Port de Grave. Honourable member for Burgeo and LaPoile. Honom;able junior member for St. John's East (Mr. Higgins). Giving Notice of Motion MR. CURTIS: Mr.

Speaker, I g·ive notice I will on tomo rrow ask leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act Further to Amend the Newfoundland Corporation Income Tax Act, 1949." HON. M. P. MURRAY (Minister of Provimial Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I give notice I will on tomorrow ask leave Lo introduce a Bill, "An Act Further to Amend Lhe Exploits Valle)' (Closing Hours) Shop Act.'" HON. S. J. HEFFER TON (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Supply) : Mr.

Speaker, J give notke 1 will on tomorrow ask leave Lo introduce a Bill, "An Act to _.\mend the Rent Re­ strictions Act," and a Bill, "An Act to Amend the \Vater and Sewerage Corporation o/' Greater Corner Brook Act, 1951.'' HON. ]. R. CHALKER (Minister of Education) : Mr. Speaker, I ask leave lo introduce a Bill, "An Act Further Lo Amend the Education Act." HON. DR. 1''. W. ROWE (Minister of Mines and Resources) : I give notice I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act to Amend the Undeveloped Mineral Areas Act." HON. DR. H. L. POTTLE (Minis­ ter of Public Welfare): Mr.

Speaker, I give notice I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a Bill, "An Act to Amend the Mothers' Allowances Act," and a Bill, "An Act to Amend the Corrections Act, 1953." Notice of Questiom MR. HOLLETT: 1. To ask the Honourable the Minister of Economic Development to lay on the Table of the House the following information :

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 17 I. A full report on the activities of the Newfoundland and Labrador Cor­ poration Ltd. 2. How much money from the Trea­ sury has been paid to NALCO? 3. How many shares in NALCO are presently owned by the Government and how much was paid for each share? 4. How many shares are owned in NALCO by (

a) Private Individuals, (

b) Corporations, and what price per share was paid for these shares? 5. What percentage of sha1·es in NALCO is presently owned by the Government? 6. What, if any, interest financially or otherwise has Canadian Javelin in NALCO at the present time? 7. Did Canadian Javelin purchase any shares in NALCO, and if so how many ancl al what price per share? 8. \\That salary was being paid Dr. Alfred A. Valdmanis by NALCO at the time of his resignation? 9. What, if any concessions to date have been granted hy NALCO?

State to whom such concessions were grant­ ed, the extent of the concession, and in what areas were such concessions granted? IO. Where has been situated the Head Office o[ NALCO during the past twelve months? 11. Give an itemized account of all expenditures made by NALCO since its incorporation, and table a state­ ment showing income and the amount of money on hand at the present time by this Crown Corporation. 12. Give the names and addresses of the present Directors of NALCO . How many shares are owned in NALCO by each of these said Direc­ tors? 2.

To ask the Honourable Minister of Fisheries and Co-operatives to lay on the Table of the Hous e the fol­ lowing information : I. Give a detailed account of steps being taken by the (

a) Provincial Government, (

b) by the Federal Gov­ ernment to implement the recom­ mendations of the Newfoundland Development Committee, relative to the fullest utilization of known Fis·h­ ery resources. 2. On the North East Coast wh·11 • if any, steps have been taken LOwards centralization of the salt fish industry, and what centres have been selected for the establishment of suitable" plants to take care of the inshore fish­ ery along that coast? 3.

Have any negotiations thus far taken place relative to the establish­ ment of small meal plants along- the :-.lortheast Coast as recommended in the aforementioned Developm en t Com­ mittee Report? 4. Have either the Provincial or the Federal Government taken any steps to implement the recommend ations in the memorandum dated November 20th, 19!i2, hy the Walsh Committee relative to (

a) reconnaisance survey begun in 1952, (

b) selected sires, (

c) essential services at those sites? Give details of any such implementations. 5. What encouragements have been offered by the Government for minor centralization of curing operations in small settlements. Give locations where any such efforts have been made. fi. "What, if any, efforts to this end have thus far been made by the Co­ operative Division of the Dept. of Fisheries and Co-operatives?

18 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 7. Have the Government given any consideration to the choice of Salt depots in strategic locations as recom­ mended by the Committee, if so, what centres have been selected? 8. Give a detailed account of any Housing Schemes envisaged for fish­ ermen. 9. What, if any programme of mar ­ ket research has thus far been insti ­ tuted by either the Provincial or the Federal Government? 10. Who is Newfoundland's repre­ sentative on the Fisheries Research Board of Canada? 11.

Who are the personnel of the Standing Joint Committee on Fishery matters and who is Executive Secre­ tary, and what is the salary of said Executive Secretary? 12. What was the total cost to the Treasury of (

a) the Newfoundland Fisheries Survey? (

b) the Royal Com­ mission under Sir Albert Walsh? Give a detailed statement of said costs. 3.-To ask the Honourable the Min­ ister of Finance to lay on the Table of •the House the following informa­ tion:

(1) Table certified copies of.all war­ rants of the Lieutenant-Governor since March 31st, 1953, having to do with the authorization of issues from the Newfoundland Exchequer Account , and as found in ~he Minutes of the Lieutenant-Governor in Council.

(2) Table reports as required by

Section 37 (

a) of The Audit Act, show­ ing manner in which such expendi­ tures were urgently needed for the public good.

(3) Table copies of the Public Ac­ counts.

(4) How much money has been credited to the Sinking Fund set up in connection with the Ten Million Dol­ lar Loan raised last year, and where and how is this money invested?

(5) Lay on bhe Table of the House a detailed account of all Temporary Loans since March 31st, 1953, as au­ thorized by

Section 26 of The Revenue and Audit Act. Show amount of each Temporary Loan, the date of raising it, the date when paid off, and the rates of interest charged by the bank, as also the name of the bank . 4.-To ask the Honourable the Min­ ister of Economic Development to lay on the Table of the House the fol­ lowing informa -tion : 1. How much money has been ad­ vanced to the following three Com­ panies by the Government since March 31st, 1953, either as working capital or on Capital Account: Newfound­ land Hardwoods Ltd., Atlantic Gypsum Ltd ., The North Star Cement Co.? 2.

Give the total amounts tn date paid out to, advanced or loaned to the following Industries, including Capital Account Expenditures and working Capital : (

a) Eckhardt Mills Ltd. (

b) Newfoundland Hardwoods Ltd. (

c) Atlantic Gypsum Ltd. (

d) Newfoundland Tanneries..-Wil- liam Dorn . (

e) Atlantic Gloves Ltd. (

f) Canadian Leather Goods Ltd. (

g) Koch Shoes Ltd. (

h) S'Uperior Rubber Co. (

i) Hanning Electric Co. (

j) Canadian Machinery and Indus­ try Construction Ltd. (

k) North Star Cement Co. (

I) Atlantic Hardboard Industries Ltd.

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 19 (

m) United Cotton Mills Ltd. (

n) Atlantic Films and Electronics Ltd. (

o) Terra Nova Textiles Ltd. 3. Give the number of men and women presently employed in each of the above named factories or plants. 4. How many Newfoundlanders arc employed in each of these plants. 5. Table Balance Sheets, and Profit and Loss Accounts to the end of Feb­ ruary as from March 31st, 1953 of the Newfoundland Hardwoods Ltd ., and Atlantic Gypsum Ltd. 6. What amounts if any, have been raised by way of Government guaran­ teed loans by companies listed in ques­ tion (2) above, and what amounts if any, have been paid back to the Gov­ ernment by said Companies on ac­ count of (

a) moneys advanced by Gov­ ernment, (

b) interest on moneys loan­ ed or advanced by Government? 7. ·what is the total value of machin­ ery brought into Newfoundland by companies listed in (2) above, and who certified as to said value? Give a statement in the case of each company, showing Invoice, Cost, Freight, Insur­ ance, Duty and Cartage. Table a copy of all mortgages held by Government on machinery and buildings of said companies. 5.-To ask the Honourable the Min­ ister of Finance to lay on the Table of the House the following informa­ tion: I.

A list of all brands of alcoholic liquors including wines and beers, purchased by the Board of Liquor Control since January 1st, 1953. Give names of manufacturers of each brand and the names of all local agents. 2. What local agents have sold al­ coholic liquors to the Board of Liquor Control since March 31st, 1953, and wha,t was the total quantities purchased through these agents over the same period? Give amounts purchased through each individual agent. .,.

Give the amount of money paid out by the Board of Liquor Control for alcoholic liquors since March 3lsl. 1953, and state the amount of moneys received by the Board over the same period on account of the sale of al­ coholic liquors including wines anrl beers. ·l. Give the number of persons em­ ployed in carrying out the work of the Board by classifications, together with wages or salaries for each classification of worker. :i .

List all Taverns, Hotel and Club Licenses in Newfoundland, with name and address of the proprietors, together with names and addresses of the own­ ers of premises from which alcoholic liquors are sold. 6. What, if any, Licenses have been issued for the sale of liquor from pre­ mises in which any member of this Honourable House has a proprietary interest or a monetary interest of any kind . List names of such memb ers and location of buildings concerned . 7.

In all cases wher e owners of pre­ mises where alcoholic liquors are sold are a Limited Liabili ty Company, and in all cases where licenses have been granted to a Limited Liability Co., list the names of shareholders of said Companies. 6. MR. FOG WILL: To ask the Honourable Minister of Finance to lay on the Table of the House Lhe follow ­ ing information : 1. The total amount of money to the credit of the Provincial Govern­ ment in the Bank of Montreal or other

20 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDIN< . Banks as at April 1st, 1953, and at March 15th, 1954. 2. The total amount of each surplus to the credit of the Province on de­ posit with the Government of Canada as at April 1st, 1953, also state if there has been any withdrawals from the surplus during the present fiscal year. 3. Table statement showing the total Revenue collected under the various Departments from April 1st, 1953, to February 28th, 1954, Revenue on Cur­ rent Account, Capital Account, and Financial Surplus Account to be shown separately. 4.

Table sta,tement showing the total Expenditure under the various De­ partments from April 1st, 1953, to Feb­ ruary 28th, 1954. Expenditures on Current Account, Capital Account, and Financial Account to be shown separ­ ately. 7.-To ask the Honourable the Min­ ister of Finance to lay on the Table of the House the following informa­ tion: I.

Table statement showing the total amount received by the Department of Finance from the Federal Government during the present fiscal year, under Subheads of Revenue, 453 Tax Rental Agreement, 455 Transitional Grant, and 460 Interest on Exchequer Bal­ ances, also state if there are any bal­ ance due and payable on these item~ of Revenue to March 31st, 1954. 2.

Table statement showing the total revenue wllected under Subhead 470, Social Security Assessment, for each month April 1st, 1953 to February 28th, 1954, also inform the House if any substantial amounts have been col­ lected by the Department of Finance by reason of the recent Court action in respect of this item of Revenue. MR. SMALLV.' -.JUD: Mr. Speaker, before moving the adjournment may I say .that it would be our hope that the Opposition would be ready on Monday to proceed with the debate on ,the Address in Reply.

I move the House at its adjourn until tomorrow, March 29th, at 3:00 of the rising do Monday, clock. The House then adjourned until tomorrow, Monday, March 29th, at 3:00 of the clock. MONDAY, March 29th, 1954. The House met a,t three of the clock in the afternoon pmsuant to adjourn­ ment. Presenting Petitions HON. MR. MURRAY (Minister of Provincial Affairs): I beg leave to present a petition ,to the House, and before doing so, I would like to take this opportunity of congratulating the honourable member who came into this House a few days ago.

The hon­ ourable and learned gentleman has had a most distinguished record in Newfoundland affairs. He is the only man in the House who had a seat in the House of Assembly when we had Dominion Government and he is the first Newfoundlander who has sat in this House and also in the House of Commons at Ottawa. I am sure the honourable gentleman will do much to bolster up the arguments of the Op­ position. My purpose in rising, as I said, was ,to present a pet1t10n. As you know it is the inherent right of the people to lay petitions before the House whereby they can seek redress for wrongs.

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 21 In a year or two we will be celebrat­ ing the centenary of Responsible Gov­ ernment in Newfoundland. In those one hundred years a great many peti­ tions were presented; some of them frivolous and some of them of the utmost importance to the people con cerned. I very much doubt if ever a peti,tion was presented which had so much natural justice behind it as the petition I am about to present.

The petition is from the people of Tre­ passey, signed by every adult in the area-men and women; from Renews and Fermeuse, as well as Kingman's, Admiral's, Riverhead, Aquaforite, Brig­ us and Bauline. The number of sig­ natures on the petition is between 2500 and 3,000 and what these people are asking for in this modern day and age is telephone and electric light. If a stranger were to come to this country, knowing its history, knowing it is one of the places that were ear­ liest inhabited, knowing its proximity to St.

John's, I think such a stranger would say that these people have a legitima,te and natural argument for these amenities which are •the right of any civilized community. But that is only a part of the story. In this very district ,there is generated more than 80% of >the hydro-electric power used on the Avalon Penin~ula. At Horse Chops, Tors Cove and Mobile hydro-electric power is generated, passes through the transmission lines and is taken out ,to be used in St. John's and other areas.

Forty-five thousand horse-power is generated there and yet these people are sitting down to read by kerosene lamps and are denied the use of telephone and other moder~ amenHies. It is a situ­ ation that should not exist. It is a monstrous injustice. At Ferrneuse one of the most mod- ern fish plants in Newfoundland is built and they have ,to generate their own electric power by means of diesel engines. Diesel engine power is very expensive; tha,t means operating costs are high; and that means that the fishermen are getting less than they should.

Similarly, at Trepassey, there is now in the course of construction a fish plant which will go into operation this summer . That plant has to de­ pend on diesel power ra•ther than elec­ tric power, while 45,000 horse-power is generated in the area and transmitted elsewhere. MR. SPEAKER: Time I HON. J. R. SMALLWOOD (Prime Minister) : I rise to &upport the prayer of the petitioners so eloquently begun to be moved by the honour­ able member for Ferryland.

When I invited the honourable member to represent the Liberal Party in the last election, I authorized him to say to the people up there that the Government would make every honest effort to see that electri­ city was brought to them. We have, indeed, been making and are now making every possible effort to fulfil that pledge, but there are difficulties in the way, with which the honour­ able gentleman is thoroughly familiar. The fact of the matter is, the com­ pany which is generating electricity on the southern shore have not the right to sell electricity in that district .

The Newfoundland Light & Power Company are making electricity, but the United Towns Electric Company have the right to distribute and sell it. In order for the United Towns to generate more electricity, they have to have more equipment; they cannot have more equipment unless they

22 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS have money; they cannot get the money unless we give it to them. Unless the Government is prepared to give them the money with which to develop, the fact is the United Towns cannot supply any more electricity Lha n they are already supplying. You have, therefore, the surprising situation, as my colleague has just said, that 45,000 horse-power electricity is being generated, while people just a [ew miles distant have to use kero, sene lamps and industrial establish­ ments are using diesel power.

Quite frankly, in order to supply the power necessary, we have either to nationalize the hydro-electric plants and set up an hydro-electric commission or we must persuade the Newfo11ncil;,ncl T.ight &: Power Com­ pany to buy out the existing com­ panies in Newfoundland.

The New­ foundland Light &: Power Company have all Lhe facilities, Lhe capital and Lhe know-how.· 1E we can g-et them to Lake over the Union Electric Com­ pany at Port Union as well as the United Towns Electric, then, with their drive, their energy and their capital, they will be able Lo develop all the horse-power potential on the three peninsulas. It is well in hand. My honourable friend can be of good cheer. He can inform his constituents that they can be of good cheer, that it will not be many years-perhaps even months­ before they have the electricity for which they yearn and which they de­ serve. MR. W. J.

BROWNE: I would like to thank the honourable member for Ferryland for his remarks con­ cerning me, and although I know he is a good historical student, I would. like to remind him that the honour­ able member sitting in front of him- the member for Harbour Main-Bell Island-was also a member in this House when we had Responsible Government. In 1932-34 we had the pleasure of sitting on the same side of the House. I do not think anybody on this side of the House expected such a discussion this afternoon. We all agree with the desirability of bring­ ing light and telephone to those areas.

Every member must know that this a private company and the first thing it figures is how much will it cost to bring the power to the people; and how much revenue it will receive. This is a very broad subject as the Premier knows. The Premier not being able- or the Gov­ ernment has not been able to solve it. I think the Government should cer­ tainly give its attention -to this pro­ position. IL seems strang·e that a member of the Government should present a petition when that petition has to b_e referred to one of the departments of Government.

I presume that is still the procedure; and it will be referred, probably, to the department of Econ­ omic Development. I am stue it will have the blessings of this side of the House when the matter is matured. Movt:d and st:coudt:d Lhal Lht: peti­ tion be referred to the department concerned. Giving Notice of Motion HON. MR. POWER (Minister of Finance): ·with the unanimous con­ sent, I move the House into Com­ mittee of the Whole 011 a Bill, "An Act granting an interim supply to Her Majesty." It is calculated on one-eighth of the total vote for 1953-54.

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 23 Mr. Speaker left the Chair, Mr. Courage took the Chair of Committee . 1. Carried. Schedule: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 carried. 12. Board of Liquor Control-$40,- 000.00. MR. M. M. HOLLETT (Leader of the Opposition) : It strikes me as unusual that $40,000 would ,be needed for the Board of Liquor Control. I was under the impression that it is in good standing; in fact, could ad­ vance money to the Government. How correct I am on that I cannot be assured, but it does seem strange to vote $40,000 to the Board of Liquor Control. Perhaps the Minister could explain.

MR, SMALLWOOD: These are statutory salaries voted by the House. The authority to pay is contained in the Motion, otherwise the Board could not pay its employees. The purpose is to authorize payment of salaries and other operating expenses for a short period. Carried. 13. Municipal Affairs and Supply­ $100,000. MR. HOLLETT : Does the same apply to this? The payment of salaries. MR. SMALLWOOD: expenses. 13. Carried. 14. Carried. And other MR. SMALL WOOD : It is on Capital Account to clean up items which became due in the year just dying. It is in the form of a revote. MR.

BROWNE : It would help in future if the amount of the re-vote was itemized. MR. SMALL WOOD : That is done in the estimates. MR. F. FOG WILL: Would the Premier inform the House how the vote will be spent during the next two months-what particular plants in operation or under construction to which the money will be devoted? MR. SMALL WOOD : I may say quite frankly that I do not know. We can get it from the Controller of the Treasury.

My informed guess would be Eckhardt Mills at Brigus who are drawing from time to time, and who might need to draw at any moment-the shoe plant at Harbour Grace and the new company that took over the White Clothing Company and are now building at the north west corner of the city near the tex­ tile mills. These three companies are in the course of construction and under agreement made between them and the Government, we have to make payments from time to time under certain conditions laid down. I assume and believe this three quarter million is reserved for this purpose. MR. BROWNE : Mr.

Chairman, may I ask the Minister of Economic Development if any of these amounts is to be given to the Hardwood Mill, the Birch Veneer Mill as working 15. ·Economic ·Development - $750,- capital? 000. MR. SMALLWOOD: No. This MR, BROWNE : Could we have three quarter of a million, I admit, some explanation of this? ought to have been broken down. I

24 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS would rather think that as this thing is prepared by the Controller of the Treasury, we are merely acting as the medium presenting it to the House. MR. BROvVNE: May I direct a question to the Minister of Finance to tell us whether any of this money is going for working capital for any of these institutions? MR. POWER : What institutions? MR. BROWNE: ls any of this seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars to be used for working capital for any of the industries? MR. POWER : I must say that as far as I know I don't think so. I can get that information. MR. HOLLETT: Mr.

Chairman, I believe the honourable Premier stated that some of the money was going to the Eckhardt Mills, but I have no recollection of passing any Bill or amount for the Eckhardt Mills. I am wondering why we have to vote supplementary supply to give these people money unless the thing had been before the House. I can sec how we have to pay people's salaries and live up to our commitments relative to any industry. But I don't recollect any legislation dealing with the Eckhardt Mills. Maybe the Pre­ mier can refresh my memory. I wonder if the Premier could tell us about that? MR.

SMALLWOOD: I have al­ ready said I don't know I do know it can be only for the purpose of en­ abling· the Government lo fulfil its financial commitments. I know that is all the Cont.roller of the Treasur y would have in mind when asking the Minister to ask the House for this three quarter of a million dollars pending the bringing down of the budget and the estimates at the pro- per time. I don't know the break down or the details. Frankly, I don't know.

I think it is a pe1·fectly simple matter for the Minister to ask some­ one to phone the Controller of the Treasury for a breakdown, and I am sure he would have no objection to doing it. MR. POWER : I would like to point out that this amount of seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars will not necessarily be spent. It is a rough shot. MR. HOLLETT: Mr. Chairman, we would like to have some inform­ ation. After all it is only seven hun­ dred and fifty thousand dollars they are asking.

IL might , e, y well be twenty-five millions-but if we had some little information from the Minister as to what the various amounts, apart from salaries, are for. MR. SMALLWOOD: I do suggest Mr. Chairman, as this is merely in­ terim supply and the estimates proper must come before the House, when, as always in the past, ample oppor­ tunity will be given for debate on each and every individual item of the estimates.

As my honourable friend on the opposite side knows they don't need to exercise their watch-dog functions and duties on what is merely interim supply, which also must be debated when the estimates and supply in the main arc brought before the House. That is clear, and I think my honour­ able friend will agree. MR. BROWNE : I think though the proposal here, seven hundred and !ifty thousand for a department that had only two and a half million last year on current and capital account, which is not one eighth. I think it ..

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 25 is one-eighth, I could not hear dis­ tinctly. It is one sixth. MR. SMALLWOOD: Yes, one- sixth. But my honourable friend must not suppose that this is the rate at which the money is to be spent throughout the twelve months. Any money to be spent in the De­ partment of Economic Development must be spent over the next few months, after which none is spent except the current expenses of the department. It is only a matter of cleaning up outstanding commit­ ments which would necessitate any money. MR.

HOLLETT : It shows en­ tries for advances for which we have no legislation whatsoever. Items p·assed in the House I have no ob­ jections, but I object to voting supple­ mentary supply for companies we know nothing about. In one instance we have the Eckhardt Mills on which we are asked to vote supplementa1·y supplies. Surely we are entitled to ask about that. MR. BROWNE : Mr. Chairman, would the Minister bring us this in­ formation tomorrow? MR. POWER: Yes_ MR.

SMALLWOOD : To save time, if it is the pleasure of the com­ mittee and later of ~he House to pass this through, and dispose of it so that we can get on with other business, I suggest we get the inform­ ation now. Somebody has gone, I believe to get it. We can give the information as soon as it comes in even if this business is passed. Item 15 ca.rried. Item 16-Labour-carried. Total $5,750,000 carried .

Schedule carried . Resolution read, carried. Moved and seconded the committee report having passed the resolutions. MR. J. R. COURAGE: Mr. Speaker, the Committee of the Whole ,have passed certain resolutions and have in­ structed me to report same. Resolutions ordered received-read a first time and concurred in, read a second time. Honourable Minister of 'Finance asks leave to introduce a Bill based on said resolutions-read a first time. Ordered read a second time now. Read a second time. Ordered read a third time. Read a third time, or­ dered passed and title be as on the Order Paper. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr.

Speaker, would it be in order for the Minister of Finance to make that explanation? MR. BROWNE : Mr. Speaker, does it not go back into committee again? MR. SPEAKER : This Bill does not of necessity go to a committee of the whole since the contents of the Bill were discussed in the present committee on supply, which duly re­ ferred the annual expropriation Bill to the Committee of the ,vhole for discussion. This has been a break­ down merely representing one-eighth of the total amount voted on capital and current account last year. MR. BROWNE: Mr. Speaker, I don't think it is quite one-eighth of last year's vote.

MR. SMALLWOOD: One-sixth, the same proportion as the rest. MR . BROWNE : ls it one-sixth or one-eighth?

26 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS MR. SPEAKER : I read one-eighth. MR. SMALLWOOD: Current and capital together . MR. BROWNE : As you pointed out most of this is to be spent in the next few months, it is not a pro­ per proportion as far as this vote is concerned. Bill passed. MR. POWER: Mr. Speaker, I submit here a printer's proof for the public accounts of the Province of Newfoundland 1953 with the Auditor 's Report thereof. I request these be laid on the Table of th e House forth­ with. MR. BROWNE: Mr.

Speaker, this is a very voluminous document and contains vital information of impor­ tance to all bhe people of the coun.try. A mere tabling of it is not very much help. I wonder if the practice has been considered of appointing a standing committee to examine into the public accounts. They have such a committee, of course, in most legis­ latures. They have one In Nova Scotia, and I feel sure in other Pro­ vinces of Canada. I would therefore, Mr.

Speaker, like to propose to the Minister of Finance and to the Pre­ mier, the desirability of having a standing committee composed of members of both sides of bhe House to examine the public accounts just laid on the table . MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker, I am happy indeed to know that my honourable friend for St. John's West so early in his new career as a mem­ ber, of this House is endeavouring to introduce the much superior tec;h­ nique with which he grew familiar in the House of Commons. I promise him we will give further thought to the matter.

I will not promise action in this session, but do promise to give it further thought; we have al­ ready thought about it. MR. BROWNE : Mr. Speaker, I cannot accept the Premier's reply as being one which would be regarded very highly by the people of this country . These are the accounts of bhe expenditures of some forty mil: lions of dollars. As they are now they are meaningless, unless they can be examined by a committee and de­ tails given where necessary. They can have no significance otherwise, and I don't think, Mr.

Speaker, it is sufficient that we should be told the Premier is going to give further thought to it, and won't promise to bring it in this session. It may be no good if it is not brought in this session. T ,herefore, Mr. Speaker, I trust he will reconsider what he has just said, and make every effort to have a standing committee to examine the public accounts appointed in this session. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr.

Speaker, T am quite sure my honourable friend will be a tower of strength to his own party, and to that side of the House, and insofar as he seeks to advise and guide his colleagues on that side, whom, I am sure, are most happy to be guided by him. But I assure him that as on the first day after opening clay tha•t this side of the House will not too readily agree to take guidance from him . I have no doubt whatso­ ever that procedures in the House of Commons at Ottawa was vastly super­ ior to anything in this litde House in Newfoundland.

The practice of hav­ ing the Auditor General examine all the accounts of the government ,and reporting on l'heni and the practice of seeking permission •to having these printed, then printing them and cir-

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 27 culating them and allowing the Op­ position and the public to have them and to put them on sale in the shops. That practice has been carried out for over a hundred years in ,this little Island of Newfoundland and has some­ how or other seemed to meet the need of the people. If my honourable friend now discovers it does not meet the need of the people, it means he has some mysterious access to the thoughts denied to ,the people's governm ent on this side of the House and up to now to his own colleagues on that side. As I have said, we will consider it.

We have already done so on more than one occasion. If ever we decide to follow that procedure, we will say so, soon after we decide that it is convenient so to do . would like to correct ,the honourable Premier. He is mistaken if he thinks the public accounts were never pro­ duced in this country in detail before. T ·hey were prior to 1934 wh en they were produced and llrought up item hy item. There was a large book brought in here and any member could examine it. ,ve did not, it is true have a committee .

I think you will agree that, since the government is so progressive in so many ways and arc so anxious to have the last word, I think they will agree it is desirable that a committee be appointed. Then, I think we could think of them with even greater admirati<!n than ever . MR. SMALLWOOD: Don't think I have nearly as much admiration. There is no change whatsoever in the way it is done now and wha-t was done when my honourable fri end was before a member · of this House of Assembly. The procedure is that the public accounts are audited.

The only difference is that there is a real audit now, there is a treasury control. In addition to ,the present audit and treasury control, there is a post audit and the results are brought here, as they were today, and permission only asked to have them printed. If this permission be granted they are printed and are circulated. That is exactly as it had been done for over a century in Newfoundland. There is no change whatsoever. The only change is the gested .

No doubt, he is full of admira­ tion for what they do in Ottawa, and no doubt he will try to impress all of us on both sides it is better we do it the way they do it in Ottawa. I ven­ ture to advise him to hesitate, to sup­ press any temptation he may have to get us to improve all our ways by merely copying Ottawa. MR . SPEAKER: The House will realiz e all this is highly irregular. Honourable members have not only spoken more than once but more than twice . J said that just for the matter of clarification. If any other honour­ able member wishes to speak. MR . HOLLETT : Mr.

Speaker, just want to ask one question, just one, a plain question that can be an ­ swered with a plain "Yes" or "No." It is a supplementary question, whether we on the Opposition side will have made available to us this day a copy. MR. POWER: The honourable member will be given a copy. I think all the discussion is a little pre ­ mature as I have not yet had pennis ­ sion to have these copies printed. MR. SPEAKER: Exactly. The hon­ ourable minister tabled the report with the request to have the printing done. I ra,ther imagine he could now perform a feat of wizardy and have them printed in a few seconds. Does

28 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS t-he House give permission to print these reports? Permission granted. MR. POWER: Mr. Speaker, I have had a quick job done, and ask per­ mission to table these. Presenting Reports MR. I. MERCER : Mr. Speaker, I beg to present a report of the select committee appointetl to draft an ad­ dress in reply to the gracious speech with which His Honour, the Lieuten­ ant Governor has been so pleased to open this session of the legisla ,ture. The draft of the reply is as follows : To His Honour the Lienl~11a111 Governor, Sir Leonard Cecil Outerbridge, Knight Bachelor, C.B.E., D.S.O.

May it please your Honour, ,ve, the Commons of Newfoundland, in Legislative Session assembled, beg to thank Your Honour for the Gracious Speech which Your Honour has ad­ dressed to this Honse. (Sgd.) Isaac Mercer. G. M. Norman. James D. Higgins . Assembly Room, March 29th, 1954. MR. SPEAKER: The motion is this report be adopted. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker, might we defer the debate. Moved and seconded the debate be deferred to a later hour this day. .Notice of Questions

(8) MR. HOLLETT : To ask the Honourable the Miuister of Public \Vmks to lay on the table of ,the House the following informa -tion: I. What were the amounts of money spent in each of the years 1950, 1951, 1952, and 1953 on the maintenance of the Deer Lake-Corner Brook Highway, including the paved

section from Steady Brook to Corner Brook? 2. How much money was spent on snow cleari'l1g on the same

section of Highway during each of the said win­ ters, that is 50-.'51, 51-52, 52-53, and 53-54? 3. State the number of men em­ ployed at the Highroads Garage at Deer Lake during the winters of 51-52, 52-53, and 53-54. 4. \Vhat salaries or wages are paid to the following personn el at the High­ roads Dept. at Deer Lake: Dislricl Roads Shop Foreman, District Roads Accountant , and the District Roads Storekeeper?

(9) MR. HOLLETT: To ask the Honourable the Mi·nister of Economic Development to lay on the table of 1 he House the following information: I. The number of men and women employed at the Birch Plant as of March 22nd, 1954, and the exact num­ ber of men and women laid off work on March 23rd? 2. "'hat reasons have been given by the operating Company to the gov­ ernment for this lay-off? 3. Can th e government give any assurance to the House tha,t those people recently laid off work at the Birch Plant will shortly be re-employed by the company? 4. State t-he rates of pay for the dif­ ferent classifications of work per­ formed at the aforementioned Birch Plant. 5. State the amount of salaries be-

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 29 ing paid to Manager Baird, Mr. Mer­ ritt, and Mr. Bell at said Birch Plant. 6. Table a statement showing (

a) Salaries and wages paid out by the Birch Plant since March 315t, 1953: (

b) the amount of moneys paid for birch and other materials for said plant since said date, as well as amounts owing to suppliers of birch and other goods and materials for said plant for same period; (

c) amount of money received for birch products of said plant since March 31st, 1953, as well as amounts due for goods deliv­ ered; (

d) the value of 5tocks of birch on hand both raw and manufactured as of the present date; (

e) the exact amount of cash working capital on hand as of this date. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker, to a point of order: The value of birch on hand . The point of order is that it is out of order for any honour­ able member to ask a question once it becomes apparent this question is out of order. That is my point of order. I ask Your Honour to rule on it. The honourable gentleman is asking a ser­ ies of questions about the affairs of a private, limited liability company. By now, I suggest, it has become apparent t·hat is what he is doing.

I therefore suggest the question is out of order. and he is out of mder in continuing to put the question . MR. SPEAKER: The honourable member is giving notice of a question that he is about to ask on tomorrow. It would b e difficult to rule on the question at this stage. MR. HOLLETT (Cont'd): (9) 7. How much money has been advanced to the Newfoundland Hard­ woods Ltd. as Working Capital since March 31st, 1953, and what amount, if any has been paid back to the gov- ernment on account of Capital Account and of Working· Capital?

(10) MR. HOLLETT: To ask thr Honourable the Minister of Finance lo lay on the table of the House the following information: 1. A complete list of all outright loans from the Treasury to individ­ uals or Corporations since April 1st, 1949, w.hether for economic develop­ ment, fishery development, or for any other purpose, showing name of in ­ dividual or corporation, the amount loaned, and the present amount still outstanding on said loan. 2.

A complete list of all guanrnteed loans made by the government to in­ dividuals, or corporations since April 1st, 1949, whether for economic devel­ opment, fishery development, or for any other purpose, showing the name of individual or corporation , the amount guaranteed, and -the present situation with regard to said guaran­ teed loan? 3. List the loans made by Commis­ sion of Government for fishery devel­ opment or encouragement of the fish­ ery industry and state what amounts are .~till owing on each.

(11) MR. HOLLETT : To ask the honourable the Minister of Finance to lay on the table of the House the fol­ lowing information : I. What amounts have been collected to date during the present fiscal year on account of (

a) Social Security As­ sessment Act; (

b) The Gasoline Tax; (

c) Cancer Control Tax; (

d) Mineral Leases; Royalties, etc. 2. What, if any, is the amount of the overdraft loan or advance of the Treasury at the Bank of Montreal al the present time? If there is no over-

\ 30 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS draft loan or advance what amount Labrador Affairs since March 31st, stands to the credit of the Treasury at the Bank of Montreal at the present time? 3. What loans were negotiated with the Bank of Montreal by the Treasury since March 31st, 1953? Give the date of each loan, advance or overdraft, the amount involved on each separate occasio,n, and the interest rate charged by the said Bank. 4. Give the amounts of Revenue and Expenditure by Departments to the present time, both on current account and on capital account.

(12) MR. HOLLETT : To ask the Honourable the Minister of Public Welfare to lay on the table of the House the following information : I. Give a statement showing the number of persons receiving able­ bodied assistance in the Province for each month since March 31st, 1953. Also give statement showing the num­ ber in each Electoral District in re­ ceipt of able-bodied relief. 2. Give detailed statement showing the cost of said relief each month, by Districts. Show also the amount per person or per family, and whether in cash or by order on merchants. 3.

Give the number of persons per T." 1 ... . . ,_ , ""'' · - · - · -- · •· · -- . . .. , . _ , .: .... C' ' • 1 ,.. .. , the cost of 11ar .... .ui:e: - -•~u al SL, l!/53, how much - oJM11"'1l.as been paid out by Districts 1- account of (

a) Dependents' Allow­ nce, (

b) Mother's Allowance, (c) ,Iaintenance of Children, (

d) Board md Lodging of Indigents, (

e) Old Age Assistance? 5. Give statement showing total cost or expendi,ture in detail of Northern 1953. What revenue have accrued from same?

(13) MR. HOLLETT: To ask the Honourable the Minister of Fisheries to lay on the table of the House the following information : l. How much money has been loaned to help fishermen to finance new and better methods, new and bet­ ter _boa•ts and gear, by the _ Fisheries Development Loan Board since its in ception? Give names of individual fishermen, address and amount of loa•n in each case? 2. What is the exact amount of money which has thus far been placed at the disposal of this Loan Board, for said purposes by the Government? 3. How much money has been loaned by the Co-operative Loan Board since its forma,tion?

Give names of indiv­ iduals or Societies to whom money has been loaned in each case, the amount of the loan, as well as the date of same? 4. How much money has thus far been placed at the disposal of this Board, and what is the present status financially of each Society to whom money was loaned relative to its asso• ciation with the Loa•n Board? .'i. How much money was loaned by _1 _, ...... ..._ • .1. .1. V LLLl_ .I. .l u a sK LHC Honourable the Minister of Economic Development to lay on the table of the House the following informa,tion : I.

What is the total number of paid­ up shares to date of the British New­ foundlancl C.orporntion Limited, com­ monly known as Brinco? 2. What is the total moneys thus far

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 31 expended by this Corporation on the exploration and investigation of nat­ ural resources contained in ·the 60,- 000 square miles of exploration leases given to said corporation by the Gov­ ernment? 3·. Give an itemized statement show­ ing expetuliture incurred by Roths­ childs prior to the "signing of , the leases, under headings (

a) Incorpora­ tion; (

b) exploration; (

c) investig:Hion in Newfoundland and Labrador? 4. Give a detailed account of opera­ tions undertaken lo date by Brinco aiong the lines of investigation and exploration in •the leased areas, show­ ing the number of geologists, mining experts, timber experts, hydro-electric experts and other specialists engaged on the work. 5. To what extent has Brinco exer­ cised its option to take up explora­ tion leases as granted under

section No. 3 of their Agreement with the Government? 6. Give the names and addresses of all Directors of Brinco, and list the shareholders in same, with number of shares held by each.

(15) MR. HIGGINS: To ask the Honourable the Minister of Public Works to lay on the table of the House a sta,tement showing : (

a) The names, (b) -the nationalities and (

c) the salaries of all engineers, architects, surveyors and draughtsmen employed by the Department of Pub­ lic Works.

(16) MR. HIGGINS : To ask the Honourable the Attorney General to lay on the table of the House the fol­ lowing information : 1. Is it ,the intention of the Govern­ ment of Newfoundland ,to make any appointments to the Magistracy? 2. If so, how many appointments are to be made and in whaJt areas are such appointees to be located? 3. Are appointees to the magistracy to have any legal training?

(17) MR. HIGGINS : To ask the Honourable the Minister of Mines. and Resources to lay on the table of the House the following info1mation : I. Does the Government of New­ foundland maintain a cabin or cabins on the Gander River? 2. If so, when was this property ac­ quired and from whom and at wihat price? 3. For what purpose is this pro­ perty maintained? 4. Was this property used during 1953? If so, during what periods and by whom? 5. Is there any staff employed to maintain this property? If so, list the names and salaries. (18). MR.

HIGGINS: To ask the Honourable the Minister of Health to lay on the Table of the House the following information : l. Is it the intention of the Govern­ ment to publiS1h the report of the in­ quiry conducted into the adminis­ tration of the Hospital for Mental and Nervous Diseases? 2. In the case of employees sus­ pended during the inquiry but exon­ erated by the findings thereof, is it the intention of the Government or the Department to reinstate any or all of such persons in their employ­ ment? 3.

How many employees in all were suspended or dismissed during the investigation carried out by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police? ' f. l

32 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 4. Have any of these penons since been employed in the Department of Health or any other department o( Government?

(19) MR. HIGGINS : To ask the Honourable the Minister of Public ·works to lay on the table of the House the following information : 1. The total amount spent on th.e Trans-Canada Highway in Newfound­ land (

a) since April 1st, 1949; (

b) in each fiscal ) ear since I 949, how much of this amount was expended (

I) by the Federal Government, (2) by the Provincial Government? 2. Give (

a) the total number of men employed last year on the Trans­ Canada Highway in Newfoundland and (

b) the tutal moneys spent in wages. 3. Give lhe total mileage of new road construction on the Trans-Can­ ada Highway in Newfoundland (

a) since April 1st; 1949; (

b) in each fis­ cal year since April 1st, 1949. 4. How many miles of road remain to be con~tructed, and the number of bridges together with approxi­ mate costs apart from paving? 5. How many miles of secondary roads were constructed during the past fiscal year and where located? Give the cost and the names of the contractors or builders. 6. llow much money was spent on repairs to secondary roads during the past fiscal year? 7. How much money was spent during the past fiscal year on roads in (

a) the electmal district of St. Jolrn's East; (

b) eaoh of the other electoral districts (not including the Trans­ Canada Highway) ?

(20) MR. FOGWILL: To ask the Honourable the Minister of Finance to lay on the table of the House the following information : 1. Under what head of expenditure was the one dollar and fifty cents per quintal advance payment to fisher­ men made, what is the total amount expended to date, and what is the estimated amount required to finalize these payments? 2. Table a detailed statement show­ ing t,he total number of bottles of rum, whiskey, gin, beer and wines, sold by and through the Board of Liquor Control, since April 1st, 1953, to February 28th, 1954. 3.

Table a statement showing the total amount of Import Duties, Ex­ cise Taxes ancl or Excise Duties, paid to the Federal Government by the Board of Liquor Control, in respect of the importation of liquor, beer and wine, since April 1st, 1953, to date.

(21) MR. FOGWILL: To ask the Honourable the Minister of Economic Development to lay on the Table of the House the following information : I. Table stalcmcnts showing how Subhead of Revenue, 1953, 1953-.54 estimates of Revenue, interest on in­ dustrial loans, is made up, giving the names of all individuals, firms or companies concerned, also the interest rate, the interest due date, as well as the amount paid in each case under this head of revenue. 2.

Table statement showing the total salary paid to Doctor Alfred Valtlmanis as Director of Economic Development, since he was employed by the Newfoundland Government, giving the date when he entered and ended his services with the Govern­ ment, as wt:11 as Lhe total amount of travelling and living allowances paid 10 him during his term of service.

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 33 Answers to Questions MR. SMALLWOOD : I c a n answer some of th e quesLions that make up No. I; som e of the sections. The Annual Meeting of NALCO is to be held on the 8Lh or 6th of April. Following that Annual Mceling, the Annual Report together with the Auditor's Report a nd Balance Sheet. will be available to the Directors and t•hen will be available to the House. As soon as possible after the Annual Meeting, I will table the Annual Re­ port, the Auditor's Report and the Balance Sheet.

(3) How many shares in NALCO are presently owned by the Govern­ ment, and how much was paid for each share? The answer is 900,000 shares at .$1.00 eaoh. That was the original number and it has never been changed .

(4) How many shares arc owned in NALCO by (

a) Private individuals. (

b) Corporations, and what price per share was paid for these shares?

(2) How much money from the Treasury has been paid to NALCO? The answer is $900,000.00 . I am not too sure that it is proper to give a compl e te answ er to that part of the question; bu t as I am in doubt, I will give the Hous e the bene· fit of the doubt. Shareholders Government of Newfoundland ......................... ....... . ... .. Harriman-Ripley & Co. Inc . ........ .................................. .. Wood Gundy & Co . Ltd . ................................ ... ····-- .. . Cement & General Development Corporation ......... M .. . Edw ard W .

Bickle of Toronto ......................................... . .. Littleton B. P . Gould ............... ........................... ................ .. Charles S. Payson ....... ................. .. ............................. ... .. . Michael Lewin ........................................................ .. .......... , .. . Sir William Stephenson .. .. No.of Shares 900,000 40,000 28,000 2,000 9,000 8,000 6,000 5,000 2.000 T,hat is one million shares at $1.00 each . In addition : L. J. Forget & Co. of Montreal ....................... ....... __ , .. ... ..

Jackson & Co. of Montreal ............ ...................................... .. Rittenhouse & Co. . ..... - ........................ ................................. . :iOO 500 500 Pric e Per Share 'il.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 I.OD 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 S5.00 5.00 5.00 Burleigh & Partners Ltd. .............................. ........ ............. !iOO 5.00 Canadian Javelin Foundries & Machine Works, Ltd. .. 76,672 !i.00 (Total of that group 78,672 at $5.00-~393,36,1 .00) Michael Lewin (amount paid in $833.34) ...... ..

Jackson & Co. (amount paid in $166.77) .......... .......... . 1,250 250 (rota! in that class 1,500 shares at $5.00-!':il,000.11 1 .~5.00 !i.00 Five million common shares were issued and paid fully to December 31, 1952.

34 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS One million shares to December 31, 1953. 78, 672 shares at S5.00. Issued and partly paid up 1,500 shares. Total amount paid into the Treasury by shareholders Sl,394,360.01. Amount transferred to paid-in surplus as in (sec. 7 of the Act) -S697,180.0I. Half t1he capital has to be surplus; that provides for that. I leave it to my honourable friend to work out the percentage. I have answered (6) and (7) .

(8) What salary was being· paid Dr. Alfred Valdmanis at the time of his resignation? Answer $30,000 a year.

(9) What, if any concessions to date have been granited by NALCO-areas where such concessions granted? The answer is, first, The American Zinc Company of Tennessee has a lease of approximately 745 square miles in South East Newfoundland. They have a three year lease in Fortune Bay-ex­ ploration lease. MR. HOLLETT: May I ask the Hon. the Premier to tahle the a·nswer? MR. SMALLWOOD: I will do that. The American Zinc lease expires May 31st, 1956. Question l (9): NALCO SUB-CONCESS'IONS March 26, I 954. I. American Zinc Company of Ten­ nessee, St. Louis, Missouri, U.S.A.

Note: Completion of a formal agreement approved and final docu­ ment not yet signed. However, NALCO and American Zinc are proceeding as if a final agreement were signed, i.e., exploration proceeding during 1953 and will, it is expected, continue dur­ ing 1954. Area: Approximately 745 square miles in South East Newfouncifand. The southern boundary rests on For­ tune Bay between Anderson's Cove and Grand Le Pierre, with Meta Pond near the northern boundary. Extent: 3 year period from May l, 1953 for exploration. Up till May I, 1956, in which to ap­ ply for a Development Permit for 5 years.

Up till May 1, 1961 in which to apply for a 99 yean Mining Lease for an area not to exceed 50 square miles. l\·finimmn expenditure $45,000 over 3 years exploration period. NALCO to have right of 30% par­ ticipation in any new company resul-t­ ing, as well as 10% royalty. 2. Canadian Javelin Foundries and Machine Works Limited, Dominion Square Building, Montreal. Area: Approximately 2,300 square miles in Southwest Labrador on each side of the railway from Seven Islands to Knob Lake .

Extent: 3 year Exploration Period from January 1, I 954 Up till January l, 1957 in which to apply for a Development Permit good for 2 years. Up till January I, 1959 in which to apply for a 99 year Mining Lease for a-n area not exceeding 50 square miles. Minimum expenditure of one mil­ lion dollars over 3 years exploration period, less expenditure by NALCO of

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 35 $299,208 up till December 31, 1953 and any moneys expended by NALCO subsequently to January 1, 1954. (Such latter sums expected to approximate $150,000 are refundable by Canadian Javelin by December 31, 1954.) NALCO has the right of 30% par­ ticipation in any new company result­ ing. as well as a JO% royal ,ty. 3. Newmont Mining Corporation oE Canada. This company which previously had a sub-concession area in Central New­ foundland (Notre Dame Bay area) amounting to 1,450 square miles @ $250,000 over three years. Dropped its option as oE December 31, 1953.

(10) In the building at Fort Towns­ hend, once occupied by the Chief of Police .

(11) Except in so far as that infor­ mation is contained in the Balance Sheet audited by Peat, Marwick &: Mitchell, I shall have to decline to answer the question .

(12) The Directors are J. R. Small­ wood, Hon. L. R. Curtis, Hon. Gregory Power , Mr. Victor P. Geffine, J. C. Doyle of Montreal, Col. J. A. Me rcier, George M . McIntosh of New York . No Director of NALCO owns any shares of NALCO. MR. HOLLETT: J . R. Smallwood on behalf of the Government. MR. SMALU-VOOD: Perhaps I own one-No-The answer is none. " 'e own none in any way . MR . BROWNE: Who owns lhc nine hundred thousand? MR. SMALLWOOD: The Govern ­ ment. My honourabl e friend owns them just as much as I do.

Now, the only part oE the question remaining to be answered is the annual report and the balance sheet of the company . which I don't think we are obliged to table, but I think I shall-the bal­ anc e sheet and the audit and the an­ nual report.. Question No. 2 : MR. KEOUGH : Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to table th e answ er to question No. 2. Question (1) : Give a detailed ac­ count of steps being taken by the (

a) Provincial Government, (

b) by the Federal Government to implement the recommendations of the New­ foundland Development Committee, relative to the fulJest utilization of known Fishery resources. Answer (I): (

a) Opportunity for reply will arise during consideration of 1954 Estimate s. (

b) Que stion im­ properly directed. Question (2) : On the North East MR. HOLLETT: J. R . Smallwood Coast what , if any, steps have been owns 50me. tak en towards centralization of the MR. SMALLWOOD: W e own none. MR. HOLLETT : Who owns the 900,000? MR. SMALLWOOD: The Govern­ ment. No director of NALCO owns any shares of NALCO. salt fish industry, and what centres have been selected for the establish­ ment of suitabl e plant s to take care of the inshore Eishery along that coast? Answer (2): Steps have been taken towards centralization and the places

36 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS where development is being com­ menced is a matter of public inform­ ation. Question (3) : Have any negotiations thus far taken place relative to the establishment of small meal plants on northeast coast as recommended in the aforementioned Development Committee Report? Answer (3) : Investigations have been under way for some time to as­ certain the practicability of small fish meal plant operations but not exclusively for the Northeast Coast. Question

(4) Have either the Pro­ vincial or the Federal Government taken any steps to implement the recommendations in the memorandum dated November 20th, 1952 by the Walsh Committee relative to (

a) reconnaissance survey begun in 1952, (

b) selected sites, (

c) essential serv­ ices at those sites? Give details of any such implementations. Answer (4) : (a) , (

b) and (

c) Yes. By the Government of Newfoundland within constitutional responsibilities. The Government of Newfoundland cannot speak for the Government of Canada . Question (5) : What encourage­ ments have been offered by the Gov­ crnmen t for minor centralization of curing operations in small settlements. Give locations where any such efforts have been made.

Answer (5) : Enwuragements have been given for minor centralization of salt fish curing operations in small settlements where fishermen have shown the desire to help ·themselves and have assume<l their equitable and just proportion of costs and re­ sponsibility for community enter- prises-i.e., Forteau, West St. Modiste and Pinware. Question (6) : What, if any, efforts to this end have thus far been made by the Co-eperative Division of the Department of Fisheries and Co­ operatives?

Answer (6) : The Co-operative Ex­ tension services of my Department have been encouraging discussions and promising study of the problems in ­ volved in the management and oper­ a-lion of centralized shore handling and processing facilities. Question (7): Have the Govern­ ment given any consideration to the choice of salt depots in strategic locations as recommended by the Committee. If so, what centres have been selected? Answer (7) : Yes. are not conclusive. Investigations Question (8) : Give a detailed ac­ count of any ,Housing Soheme en­ visaged for fishermen.

Answer (8) : Housing schemes for fishermen are under consideration. Question (9) : What, if any pro­ gramme of market research has thus far been instituted by either the Provincial or the Federal Govern• ment? Answer (9) : Market research is a continuous function of the Division of Fisheries Economic Research of my Department . The Government of Newfou11<lla11<l cannot speak for the Government of Canada . Question (10) : Who is Newfound­ land's representative on the Fisheries Research Board of Canada? Answer (10) : Question improperly directed.

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 37 Question (11) : Who are the per­ sonnel of the Standing Joint Com­ mittee on Fishery matters and who is Executive Secretary, and what is the salary of said Executive Secretary? Answer (11) : There is no Standing Joint Committee on fisheries matters. Question (12) : What was the total cost to the Treasury of (

a) the New­ foundland Fisheries Survey? (

b) the Royal Commission under Sir Albert Walsh? Give a detailed statement of said costs. Answer (12) : (

a) Improperly ask­ ed. (

b) No Royal Commission was appointed under Sir Albert Walsh, March 29, 1954. Question No. 3 : MR. POWER: Mr. Speaker, the answer is being prepared. (

c) has al­ ready been tabled . (Public Accounts). Question No. 4: MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker, question No. 4 is in the course of preparation. Question No. 5: MR. POWER : The answer is be­ ing prepared. Question No. 6: MR. POWER : Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to table the answer to that question. Question No. 6 (

I) Money a,t credit of Provincial Government: Bank of Montreal ...... _ ............. . - .......... .. Crown Agents ............................................ .. At 1/4/53 5,895,788.91 478,161.45 10,850,000.00 At 28/2/ 54 1,973,385.26 540,100.00 10,850,000.00 Government of Canada ......... -............. ..

(2) Cash Surplus on Deposit with H.M. Government of Canada : (

i) At I April, 1953 : $10,850,000. (ii) There have been no drawings since 1/4/53.

(3) Departmental Revenue 1/4/53 to 28/2/54: Department Current Finance ............................... $22,839,197.58 Provincial Affairs ......... . Education ................. -....... . Attorney General .... , .... .. Mines & Resources ........ .. Public Works .................. .. Health ...... ........................ .. Public ·welfare ................ .. Liquor Control ............... . M. Affairs & Supply ...... .. Fisheries & Co-ops ............ . Economic Develop . ........ ..

Labour ....... ..................... .. 5,729.67 354,682.01 110,410.94 598,233.63 1,058,167.87 1,403,486.59 1,070,258.34 2,705,000.00 105,472,60 35,971.55 28,299.30 13,335.13 '$30,328,241.21 Capital 13,636.36 5,796.75 1,112,191.76 26,720.00 57,940.95 287,000.00 105,000.00 1,608,285.82 Surplus 83,453.29 4,858.34 6,371.47 1,273.92 40,930.48 38,722.21 175,609.71

38 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Question No. 6 (2)

(4) Departmental Expenditures 1/4/ 53 to 28/2/54: Department Current Consolidated Fund Services .1,067.466.63 Legislative ........................ .... 54,772.98 Executive . ............ ... ......... . 52,968.62 Finance ................. ............ .. . 993,990 .41 Provincial Affairs ... ..... .. 51,505.3., Education ......................... ... 5,649,292.59 Attorney General .. _ ............ 1,490,875.12 Mines & Resources .. ....... 1,086,998.64 Public Works .................... 4,683,573.14 Health ........... ...................... 6,919,ll8.07 Public Welfare 6,097,068.75 Liquor Control ........... , 239,707.38 M.

Affairs & Supply ......... 837,277.33 Fisheries & Co.ops . .............. 1,166,588 .57 Economic Development 145,683.20 Labour ......... .. ... ........... .. 94,218 .84 $30,631,105.62 <!uestion No. 7: MR. POWER : Mr. Speaker, the answers are being prepared. Orders of the Day Address in Reply: MR. BROWNE: Mr. Speaker, it is a great honour to me to be given the privileg·e of opening the debate on the motion for an address in reply.

This is the first time I have been on the Opposition side of the House, but I have had some experience elsewhere . \Ve are only a small group, but ait the same time we represent many thou • sand s o[ people ouLside of the House . Further than that, it seems to me that the rol e of the Opposition in a Legislature is more ,than being re­ sponsible to the people who sent it there or supported ils power.

It is our duty to probe as far as we can the affairs of the country as they have Capital 649,271.60 30,000.00 4,861,797.47 332,846.54 667,917.44 1,139,586.66 2,667 ,283 .06 $10,648,702.77 Surplu s 10.785.70 $10,78!\.70 been administered by 1.hc government during the time that has passed. We know the task is big for such a small group as we are here; it may well be it is too big for us, we may not be equ al to it.

But I wish to say I am very pleased to be here today and associated wi-th these honourable gen­ tlemen on this side of the House, who, in my opinion, have carried on their task so well in spite of the difficulties confronting them . I don't think that the public realizes the difficulties of the Opposition .

Whereas the Minis­ ters of the Crown have their offices and their trained staffs and plenty of secretarial help to enable them to answer the ques,tions put to them, and to keep them up-to-the-minute on matters of public importance, the Opposition has no clerical staff what­ soever. It is true Lhal •this House provides one stenographer for all the members who are not Ministers. But

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 39 the Opposition has no staff and is therefore in a predicament in regard to obtaining information or prepar­ ing speeches. '"'hat we must do we mu st do in our own time and at our own expense. I hope that the Premier will pardon me if I draw to his attention, that in other places provision of this kind has been made. I don't know if it has been <lone in all the legislatures in the different provinces but it has been made in some.

He who has proven himself so generous in pro­ viding the Opposition with another member and expresses ·his willingness if it is necessary, to add another to the list, will not hesitate at the mere implementing of our work by sup­ plying clerical assistance.

If, there­ fore, the Premier complains that the 'Opposition gives him the impression of not having prepared its speeches and that Bill af.ter Bill has gone through the House here without any comments, I think the Premier him­ self sometimes, from what I have heard (I have not heard him speak here but from what I have heard outside) I have been given the im­ pression of his saying •things that he did not intend to say before he started. I have been myself so far removed from the House of Assembly that I have not been as familiar with · things that have been going on here since 1949 as I would have liked.

I believe it will take me some time to become familiar with things that have been going on . Now, everywhere, it is the custom to congratulate the mover and sec­ onder .of the motion on opening day . . As I had the honour when I was a member here further back, a long ,, time ago, of moving the same motion and seconding iL on a110ther occasion, I can appreciate the feelings of the honourable memb ers. I would there­ fore like to tender them my respect for the good work they have done. As far as my honourable friend, the member for Port de Grave is con­ cerned, he is an experienced lawyer.

The honourable Premier may not agree he is as good a one as I think he is myself, but he did the job we expected him to do. As regard the honourable member for Burgeo and LaPoile, I think he approached his task in a very sensible fashion. I think it was wise for him, looking over the Address in Reply, and see­ ing the promises that are made there, to remind us that even the best in­ tentions go astray , and that the fish­ ery development programme is only an experiment, and there are likely to be many failures and experiments be­ fore we arrive at the right solution of the problem.

I can point, I think, to some mistakes that have been made in the past in connection with the fisheries. I will only instance one, and that is one in which so much faith was placed at the time, i.e., the importation of Icelandic fishing ves­ sels and crews to show our people how to catch the millions of tons of herring swarming in the waters around our coast. I believe that cost nearly half a million dollars, Mr. Speaker, and the amount of herring caught was insignificant.

I remem­ ber a captain in Placentia Bay well recognized as an authority on the location of the herring informing me that the boats were out in Placentia Bay and did not know where to catch the herring . He went out in his boat and loaded alongside of them. Because they were ashamed the Icelandic Skippers went away. M'R. MURRAY : If the honourahle member knew where they were he

40 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS should have told the Icelandic Fish­ ermen and saved us money. MR. BROWNE: Well he went out and caught them. He was in the same business. The Icelandic crews did not come here to learn but to teach our people where to get this vast sou rec of wea I th. MR. SMALLWOOD: Someone pull­ ed the honourable member's leg. There was nol a boat-load caught anywhere that year by anyone. MR. BROWNE : J don't think the gentleman would be telling lies. He is a man from Ship Harbour, Pla­ centia Bay, one of the Powers, and has a reputation for being a straight­ shooter and for telling the truth.

I don't believe he would tell me any­ thing false . He told me about this instance. Tn any case it cost this country five hundred thousand dol­ lars. That was one of the failures and mistakes the Government might profit by in the near future. Ex­ perience is a dear teacher. The Pre­ mier should remember that and the rider which goes with it. "Fools learn in no other school." ,Mr. Speaker, I have the ·honour of having an invitation to the coron­ ation ceremonies this year. Unfor­ tunately I was unable to attend be­ cause there was a general federal election in the offing.

I am sure all of us join in the sincere expression of loyalty and devotion already expressed so well to the person of Her Majesty, and we hope she may live long to reign over a happy and prosperous commonwealth . N6,v; Sir, when I was iii Montreal, ver,y recently, I had ,the privilege and pleasure of meeting some of the mem­ . hers of the Newfoundland Society in that city.

I learned there what I think is a rather extraordinary thing, i.e., that last year when ,the "William Carson" was being· launched, (that is the vessel which is going to run be­ tween Port aux Basques and Sydney, and from Sydney to Port aux Basques and bring over these millions of tour­ ists Lhat were announced a few years ago), there was no Newfoundlander to speak on tha,t occasion. Out of a thousand guests, I believe, present, there were onJy six Newfoundlanders.

It seems to me, we should have been considered to have had a greater in­ terest in the future of that vessel, and there should have been represent­ ation from this country present at that ceremony. Now, it was suggested to me there, that this vessel was built, not so quickly as my honourable friend the Premier predicted when he gave ns his famous speech of 1949. HI! then cold ns she would be on the Gulf in I 951.

It will be some time in 1954, and she will be there a long time before the Minister of Public Works has the Trans-Canada High­ way to take the traffic coming over, before the motor cars can be carried away from Pout aux Basques. That ship is going to be ready, I believe, some time in July. Now, what are they going to do about that situation? Has the Government any recommend­ ation to make to the Government of Canada or ,the Canadian National Railway as to how that ship is going to put in its time. She is ready long in advance of the highway.

I would suggest, as it has been suggested to me by the members of the Newfound­ land Society, and perhaps the Premier may know about ,that; that ship should begin running between Mont­ real and St. John's. This year for her maiden ship's trip shonld make an excursion [rom Montreal to St. John's. I believe from what I have heard that it would be a very popular

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 41 move, and many Newfoundlanders, not only in Montreal and the City of Toronto, bu,t in the United States would be glad to come here by that ship and bring their motor cars and tour the country, as far as it is pos­ sible on the Peninsula of Avalon, where at least there are several hun­ dreds of miles of roads available. Another suggestion was made to me, i.e., since June 24 is a holiday in this country' it will be recognized by the Newfoundlanders living in Montreal, where they are going to have 'a ceremony at Atwater Park on that particular day.

They have sug­ gested to me that perhaps a hook-up could be arranged for a two-way con­ versation, and an expression of greet ­ ings between Newfoundlanders here and those who live in Montreal. I believe these Newfoundlanders there are interested in the welfare of New­ foundland and would welcome any such arrangement. I trust it can be arranged, and I hop e that no politics will enter into it. I mentioned a moment ago about the roads. The Tra!1s-Canada High ­ way will certainly not be ready. Now, we know that at this time of year we can't expect all the roads to be in good condition.

But I believe a cer­ tain general principle must be recog­ nized in regard to road building in this country. I am not sure it has been recognized. T·his is it : We are not living in a horse and buggy age. The traffic over the roads today in Newfoundland is almost as heavy as over the highroad bebween Montreal and Toronto, and unless you get modern roads they can't stand up to traffic. The highroads out of St. John's carry the bulk of traffic in this country, and is where most of the motor traffic is concentrated. The roads, therefore, must be improved.

I would suggest to my honourable friend, the Minister of Public Works, as soon as feasible we should have paved roads leading out of the citry in other directions than those which are now there. \Ve have a paved road to Carbonear; from ,vaterford Bridge Road to the Goulds, a distance of about six miles; and another, I don't think we are responsible for its bnilding, from here to Torbay Air­ port. But I would suggest that it is desirable that the pavement should continue on past the Goulds at least to Witless Bay Line.

As he told me himseJ.f in the past some · connection was made with the highroad that runs out to Holyrood. On this high­ road you see more traffic in line than at Ottawa, Toronto or Montreal, hundreds of cars in line. There is not very much pleasure -in having a motor car when all you can do is get in a procession of other cars and keep on going like t-hat. One has only to go over the road to Torbay, six miles, then get on a road that is absolutely disgraceful, certainly, it was much better twenty years ago than it is to­ day.

I was down there a few days ago, and my car stalled on the rough spots, and I got stuck on them and went aground on them. There are huge holes in the road and boulders sticking up. MR. SPENCER: Having made that remark, can you explain now, why they were better then, than now? MR. BROWNE : That can be in­ ferred from my remarks. I am not saying they were better to be sarcastic , what I am saying, is that these roads should be paved roads, the roads leading out of the city of St. John's should be paved also important roads leading out of other places where there is a good deal of traffic.

It is impossible today to have the roads

42 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS stand up ,to t·he traffic on them if they are not well built. Now, I know in Nova Scotia, I was there a few days ago and I heard the Premier make an explanation about the com­ plaints received up there because the roads had to be closed. They have fifteen hundred miles of paved roads up there. I don't know how many hundred we have here, but I doubt that we ·have much more than one hundred. MR. SPENCER : One hundred and twenty-five. MR. BROWNE : And they have fifteen hundred miles in Nova Scotia.

So that my honourable friend, the Minister of Public Works, has a big programme ahead if he wants to put this country in a posi.tion to benefit by good transportation. I don't be­ lieve this country can make progress until it gets transporLation facilities of a modern kincl. Nuw