Volume 2 PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND THIRTY-SIXTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND 2nd Session Number 61 =========== = = ====~~============- -.,.,,_- VERBATIM REPORT Thursday, April 26, 1973 SPEAKER: THE HONOURAB.LE JAMES M. RUSSELL

April 26, 1973 Th• House met at 3:0() P.~. ~r. Speaker in the Chair. ~~- SPEAKER: Order please. Tape ~o. 1303 . The honourable member for Grand Falls. NM - 1 'ffi.. A. srnIOR: I rise on a matter of personal privilege to correct two newspaper articles, one appearing in "The Daily ~ews," concerning a petition which I presented in the honourable House yesterday. It is just~ minor correction here but I think it is important. In the

article it reads that there are over one hundred people on the waiting list for the hos~ital in Grand Falls, I This should read seven hundred people. Also in "The Evening Telegram," on page five there is an

article concern.in~ a speech I made in the House a couple of days ago and there was refere~ce to DREE schools for the Grand Falls Area. The

article reads; "Only one school has been built so far and Dree had indicated it wanted to make a study of educational needs before starting a second." Sir, this might have been misinterpreted because _n_o . DREE school has been built in Grand Falls district and the purpose of the study was to stµdy all the educational ne·eds of the area which would include the possibility of two DREE schools. I would like to make these correctio~s just ,for the record Sir. HON. G. OTTENHEIMER, MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to inform members of the Legislature of an expansion in the Department of Education's Han,J.icraft Training Pro2ramme. The -department is now offerin~ two new courses on the Port au Port Peninsula - one in Port au Port East and the other in Three Rock Cove. Twenty-four s,tudents have been enrolled in these courses. They are being trained as handicraft instructors and it is hoped that after they successfully complete the course they will in turn be able to train others in handicrafta. 5!!54

April 26, 1973 Tape No. 1303 NM - 2 MR. OTTENUEIMER: An important point to be noted I believe is the fact that this project has been started in co-operation with and after representations were made by the Port au Port Economic Development Association which is interested in the development of handicrafts in the area. It is also being conducted in co-operation with Canada Manpower.

Interest in craft training throughout the province has been increasing and certainly the Department appreciates the work done by the development association of Port au Port in this ~rea and it is to be hoped that other such associations will work i~ that area as well. Courses, both full-time and part-time,are at present being given in vocational schools at Placentia, Seal Cove. Gander, Bonavista, Springdale, Corner Brook and Burin. It is believed, !~G~c~ pl~nnct, that handicraft courses will be given in the three new vocational schools scheduled to open in September at Happy Valley, St. Anthony and Baie Verte.

I Travelling handicraft instructors have ~iven courses during the present school year in approximately fifty different communities. In addition, part-time instructors have been engaged in a total of 160 courses in a variety of subjects including weaving, sewing, knitting, leather craft, pottery and other areas.

I would point out again "that certainly,not exclusively but to a large extent, _thi~ work was able to start because ..., of the interest of the local development association and certainly the handicraft instructors, indeed the entire department welcome that kind of participation by development associations. We will be pleased to work in co-operation with them. PETITIONS: HON. H. COLLINS , MINI.:TER OF MUNICIPAL AFFAI RS AND HOUSING: Mr. Speaker, I have a short statement which might be of interest to the House. The House would agree that we have been receivin~

April 26, 1973 Tape No, 1303 MR. COLLINS: requests from many tenants groups across the province asking for financial assistance. NM - 3 The C,overnment of Newfoundland and Labrador, through its housing agency, the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation, have decided to join with the federal government in making financial assistance available to organize public housing tenants, that is tenants of subsidized rental units. The assistance will be in the form of a grant of $10 per unit per year, the cost of which will come under federal-provinc1al cost sha~ing.

To qualify for such ftmding, the group of tenants would have to formally organize themselves as an association comprising at least fifty per cent of the tenants. The association would be represented by elected officers,under a constitution, with at least two principal aims; number one - the initiation in carryin~ cut recre~tional and other progra=ies, ~nd r.umbcL two - to represent tenants interests, It is a further requirement that the organization of tenants be in existence for at least one year and would have to make application for funds at the end of its first operating year.

The grants proposed are intended to supplement funding contributed by community groups or the tenants themselves. The total and estimated cost, based on all public units now acquired and under construction, would be $15,500 a year and the provincial share would ,be $5,000. '111 NOTICES OF MOTION: HON, J. CROSBIE, MINISTER OF FINANCE: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave of the House to introduce a Bill, "An Act To Govern Collective Bargainin~ Respecting Certain Employees in the Public Service Of The Province." HON, A.

HICI<MA..~, MINISTER OF JUSTICE: Mr, Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce 5~66

April 26, 1973 Tape No. 1303 NM - 4 a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Surmnary Jurisdiction Act." QUESTIONS: HON. J. ROUSSEAU, MINISTER OF REHABILITATION AND RECREATION: I have the answer, Mr, Speaker, to question 297, in the name of the honourable member from St, Barbe North. The Youth Administration Act was repealed by the Department of Rehabilitation and Recreation Act 1973, according to

section 38. The t,rm of office of persons who were members of the Youth Advisory Council has expired. No appointments have been made under

section 19 of the Department of Rehabilitation and Recreation Act. MR. HICKMAN: Mr. S~eaker, there is a question on the Order Paper of February 26, item 49, a~ked by the honourable member for White Bay South which I discussed with the honourable member some time ago and the question is to indicate what legal preceedings and actions have been taken with respect to recoveries under the Social Security Assessment Act,and to fumish names, The

interpretation of the Social Security Assessment Act and particularly 23 thereof, whilst it is not positive refers to and confers on the minister the right to exchange information as to names of people indebted to the Crown by vay of social security assessment with the Government of Canada only. .. Therefore, I feel and I understand that this is the practice that has been followed in the past when similar questions have been asked, that it would be imprope~ t~ liat the names. I can say for the information of this House, that the Department of Justice, during the years commencing in 1972 ·and up 1111til now or a few weeks ago when this was prepared, had been asked to 5~67

April 26 1 1973 Tape No. 1303 MR. HICKMAN: institute action to recover from forty-four companies and individuals and that we have recovered from fifteen. MR. ROBERTS Inaudible, NM - 5 MR. HICKMAN: No. No. Most of them are in the hands of the sheriff's office now. MR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I have the answer to question number 43, on the Order Paper of February 26, in the name of the honourable member from St. Barbe North and question number 131,on the Order Paper dated March 12, the same honourable member. I have several copies of that which I will table.

I have the answer to another question from the same honourable member but I do not have the number, I just have the one copy and I will table that as well. MR. SPEAKER: Are there any other answers to questions? ORDERS OF THE DAY: MR.S. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Transportation and Communications. Would the minister inform the House what time he expects to appoint the members of the Safety Advisory Board,as proposed in an amendment to an amendment.

It was defeated in this House yesterday and announced last nip,ht by the minister at the annual meeeting of the Newfoundland Safety Council. DR. T. FA~RELt, MINISTER OF TRA.--iSPORTATION ANn C0'1l'flJNICATIONS: ~r. Speak~r, in answer to the question from the honourable member for Bell Island, we will be immediately starting negotiations with the Safety Council and the other people we hope to get involved. That is where it is at this moment. Thank you, ~fR. N~RY: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Justice - would the Minister of Justice inform the House if he has received the police report on the unus.1al circumstances surrounding the death of a younr, fireman in the city last week1 5C68.

April 26, 1973 Tape No, 1~;1')3 NM - 6 1-fR. HICK'-'A:-1: Mr. Speaker, that question I submit is not a proper question, I am unaware that any ?-Unister of Justice nas ever ~ade public the fact that any investigation, having been on~oing - ~IR. ROBERTS: Inaudible. \fR. JTir.K•~~: Well if they have,then I have not received any report. MR. NEA_B.Y: Mr. Speaker, the question was not was he going to make it public but I just asked the minister if he had rcceived_a report of an investigation. ~. HICKMAN: No. - MR. ?mARY:· The answer is no. MR. E.

WINSOR: !1r, Speaker, I am wondering Sir, who could answer for the Department of Fisheries now. I have several questions to 11,qlc the &_,:!::for, 1.fini,st-Pr nf F1sJ,er:fes,. ' Th~ 'Prem-f .. ,-, "'ho is acting,is unable to be in his seat, Is there anyone assigned to answer questions dealing with the fisheries? Has the government received any representation from fishermen alon~ the northeast coast to request the federal government to extend the lobster fishery because of the lateness of the season getting underway owing to ice conditions alon~ that coast? ~. HICIC1M:: I will take.that as noted, Mr. Speaker.

MOTION: Committee of Ways ano Means (Adjourn debate on the Budget). MR. S!EAKER: I think the d_ebate was adjourned last night by the._ honourable member for Labrador North. 5!l5S

April 26, 1973 Tape No. 1303 . NM -7 MR. M. WOODWARD: Mr·. Speaker, I would like to comment jus't briefly on the second budget presented by the honourable Minister of Finance for his Tory Administration. I suppose, although it is customary and considered to be good principles of an administration to forecast expenditures for the coming year, there is no doubt that this particular budget in itself was not only maybe demoralizing but then indeed I suppose not a welcome one by the people of this province.

There was no cheering in the street, although there were a number of pictures of the budget which were considered to be good; I think they were far outweighed by the disadvantages or the deficiencies that the public would be confronted with in this proviµce. I think, Mr.

Speaker, m~ybe the greatest disappointment in the whole budget and the greatest effect that this particular budget will I.ave on the people of my district and indeed the people of Labrador and I suppose in general the people of the whole of the province, the great disappointment of the non­ negotiable items that were presented in the budget concerning the Lower Churchill Falla Development.

I feel and I know the people in Labrador did not look very kindly upon this type of tripe to a great organization, an organization that have spent a large amount of money trying to develop the natural resources of Labrador and going into Labrador in the pioneering days, going into territories that no one else had ventured into, a lot of unknown factors, a lot of great expenditure, but pioneering the wilds of Labrador. The BRINCO people we feel, as citizens of that part of the province, did a great job.

Now we see in the days when things are possibly a little bit rosier, that those people are not only discourap,ed from developing maybe a great potential that we feel that is the contributing factor to the development of the known resources 597G

April 26, 1973 Tape No, 1303 NM - 9 !:!_R, M, 9qoDWARD: of Labrador, and poaaibly omathinR that will have an everlasting effect, not only on the lives of this generation but on the lives of the generations to follow in . that particular part of the province.

I suppose when one sees headlines in the daily papers, the media, when one listens to the news that there is a particular movement afoot in the province to petition the Queen,in right of the people of Labrador,for some rights whereby we feel that there should be a referendum to determine the type of rule,where people can get a fair chance at government or be paid some attention to. I do not condone this type of situation, M~. Speaker. I would not and I will not condone this type of situation.

I feel.that legally and rightfully, that Labrador, by all acts of government, going back to our mother of government, the British Parliament, is an integral ?art of this province and it should be treated as such.

Because of the isolation,and I think maybe not to lay the blame wholly and solely on the shoulders of the Minister of Finance but to lay the blame on the total administration, the government, the honourable crowd that sit ·on the other side of the House, to lay the blame squarely and wholly on the shoulders of that a~ministration, Going back to the October election of 1971,when we,indee~ myself,although not agreeing with the political platform that was set fort~ by the Tory Administration, I did admire the words, and words mean very little, Mr, Speaker, if indeed those words are not put into some practice, the words:.

We are prepared and we will bring to the people of this province and indeed Labrador,which will be given some special consideration- These words were quoted by the Premier,•apecial consideratlon,to bring some means of regional government to that part of the province, that could be accessable to the people in that land of hol a tion." We welcomed that. I did myself, because _ these are the · things that I_ fought for and I am sure that these are the . things _ 5!}71

April 26, 1973 MR. M. WOODWARD: Tape No. B03 , i NH - 9 that the honourable member for Labrador South fought for in his platform. Although we had maybe little differences, those are the things that we would welcome for Labrador.

When I look at this particular budget and I see the enormous increase in the administration of this province, when I look at the increase for fourteen executive assistants who primarily squirm around in this particular building, paying very little attention to what is happening in Labrador, maybe making the odd trip to Goose Bay but never getting down to take a look at what is happening in the communities on the coast. Maybe the mere fact that a lot of people in this province feel proud, feel proud that like my forefathers and indeed my father, Sir, one time fished in Labrador, fished in Labrador.

They went down to Smokey or some other small coll!lllunity, got a boatload of fish and said,"Let us get the heck out of here and go back to the island." This discontent is brought about b~cause of this type of transient administration.

When I look, and I am sure the honourable Minister of Finance will agree, at the . restructuring of this government and the additional cost that the people or the public or the voters or the citizens of this province will have to bear, that restructuring, that increase in the administration is going to have very little effect on the remote areas of this province because of the mere fact, Mr. Speake .r, that their hearts and souls are not there to get out to tread those lands,to be a part of the particular type of life that those particular peo~le are liv~ng.

When I think in terms of regional government, when I think in terms of ,bringing the goven,.ment to the people,it was welcomed news. It did not come about. Mr. Speaker, fourteen, fifteen months have elapsed since that day. We have seen less of the government now than we saw in the previous administration, 5!J72

April 26, 1973 Tape No, 1303 NM - ID MR. M. WOODWARD: far less, Sir, far less, We never see in our area, we never see the presence of a cabinet minister, relatively unheard of, very rare birds, cabinet ministers in our area. We see the honourable member for Labrador South passing through on his weekend visits to his district, no doubt a very busy man, We had high hopes for that particular minister and we had high hopes that he himself, having the lmowledge that would see the need for a regional government in our part of the province.

We have had a retrenchment of service and that retrenchment Sir, has caused a very, very grave concern in the minds of the people. They are not hopeful any111Qre. They have lost hope. They are only looking at a picture of gloom and misery and possibly reverting back to the old days, Sir, looking for the ,sails on the schooners when they sailed into the small communities, and going back to that method of fishing again. It is an about-turn, Mr.

Speaker, it 1s an about- turn that today when I get very emotional,when I see people in our province saying, "Look we are not prepared to do anything about it." Now ve are going to make a choice of our own. Mr. Speaker, I think we made a welcomed choice in 1949 when this province, a colony,became a part of that great Mainland of Canada, I am very proud,first to be a Newfoundlander and a Labradorian and second to be a Canadian. Our people are left in a state of unknowing, Maybe to some degree they do not know where to go next.

They feel that they have used up all their resources trying to persuade the provincial government to get into providing some service for the people in the mainland portion of our province. I cannot see that this is going to come about, Mr. Speaker. I cannot see this happening. Our people now have lost faith and where

April 26, 1973 ' Tape No. 1303 NM - II MR. M. WOODWARD: do you go from rhis particular stage or this particular time,in ttiat light? It is very disturbing indeed. It is equally more disturbing for people,11ke myself, that have raised a family in that part of the province,~o think in terms of people not wanting •.to be associated with a particular part of the province that has government administrat~on. I would like to leave this, Mr. Speaker, I would like to leave this thought with the present government,administration. I go to Comer Brook 5!J74

April 26, 1973 · Tape no. 1304 Page 1 - mw and I see a big building that is -financed by this government, I see a token, maybe only a token, but it is a token of feeling. The presence of government is there. It is not in Labrador. It is not through civil servants, it is not through cabinet ministers, lt is purely, wholly and solely in isolation - isolation to the degree where a number of our people, as I have stated a number of times in this House, have not seen this portion of the province. I suggest, Mr.

Speak.er, that we should take a very serious look at putting some senior cabinet govermnent people to combat that disturbance that is already caused and is already spreading and will spread further, not today, not tomorrow but maybe in the next aix month• or the next year. It will apread rapidly all throughout Labrador. They will refuae 1 a number of people,to have any aaaociation or to aay the least refuse to feel a part of this province.

I suggest · that the lli.nist:er,with the number of dol.Lara tnat he bu pent and the number of dollars that have been put into thia province this year, the $24 million, let us protect that portion of the province. Let us protect Labrador. Let us protect the industries that exist there. If we allow thi• discontent to grow with our children, when they reach manhood there is no way -that we are going to be a part of thia province. Thev surely will separate unless ve in turn do something about it.

My belief, ~ the people do believe in that part of the province, is that we.shoulil have some form of govermnent, a regional government that is cloae to the people and the people can feel a part of it. We have had a number of communities, Mr. Speaker, I have uked the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Rousing on a number of occaiona to get involved with those communities, to get some fiald workers, if you want to ull them that, to get some representation out to develop. I have been fortunate enough in getting local cOllllllUDity c9uncila, getting local administratwn, getting people involved in a 5975

April 26, 1973 Tape no. 1304 Page 2 small way in governing their own affairs and indeed going ahead to feel that they are a part of government. We have had and we still have no one that is giving any direction to those comnunities. We are not spending any money in those co111111UDities, Hr. Speaker, and the mere fact is that the people now ~re getting discouraged. They do not want to carry on with their own community councila,because I feel they are trying to promote a hopeless cause.

I would like to think in tel'IDS of having, maybe in the Goo•• Bay area,some representations from the Department of Municipal Affairs and Housing - maybe a senior civil servant, maybe a _frequent visitor, a visit from the minister, Hr. Speaker, to go in and talk to those people, to tell them what government have to offer, to go into their c0111111unities, to ait in their community halls and tell them what government is all about. This they have not done. I have tried to promote local government. I think this is the tart.

I have had no assiatance, no help from the Provincial Department of Municipal Affair  and Housing.

I leave this with the honourable minister,that he ahould aee fit to give these people equal treatment, to indeed go into the communities and get involved and ahow the people what there i  available to them and how they in turn can develop and how to develop their own communities, not by sending perhaps an employee from the government department to go in and et him:self up on th~t high ladder and look down who, in 1110st caaes, Hr, Speaker, is out of reach of the ordinary people4 ' ~ We have had in the Goose Bay area, this year - I must c011111end the hon_.

Minister o_f Recreation and Rehabilitation for his efforts which he has taken in trying to promote the pension scheme, the Exceslor Scheme.that -ex:f.sts for the employees at Goose Air Base. There is fndeed and there still is and there will exist for the next few years this degree of uncertainty in that co11111wiity, the government,through a progra1111H,that was started by the federal 5!J76

April 26, 1973 Tape co. 1304 Page 3 government~ of which I am a part, saw fit to put a number of civil servants on the commission. I am not saying, Mr. Speaker, that those people are not good. They are resource people. They are very knowledgeable people but they are not policy-making people. They do not make decisions. I feel that when that committee ia lacking today ia the fact that they do not have on that committee a aenior minister, a cabinet minister who can immediately make decisions, not on the spot decisions but conferring with hia colleagues in cabinet and to make decisions with them.

There is a great thing at atake. here,Mr. Speaker. There ia the direct livelihood of aome 12,000 to 13,000 people involved at Goose Bay. We are not yet Htiafied with what 1a going to take place. They have extended the contract.up until 1976 for the American Air Force. There hu been federal participation involved in thia particular plu but three yeara - can you plan a lif•, a future, can you plan for your children when you le.now that you only have the ueuraace,"that you are only going to be employed for a p~riod of three years? thia thing, Mr.

Speaker, has left a very demoralizing effect in that • coaaunity and it hu left a demoralizing effect oa the livea of a number of people. People are DOW undecided. uwill we stay here for three years? What is going to be th.e· economic situation in the Province of Jll11Vfoundland? Maybe if I can get down there now I can get a job? If I stay here for three years, things will start getting worst, if the unemployment rate starta to go up, I may not be able to get a job. I cannot suy here without oae.u .. I think those are policy decisions, Kr. Speaker, that should be made by government.

I feel that the Premier of this Province, along with his colleagues in cabinet - the federal government saw fit to put in a fair amount of money to keep that operation viable for the next three years. The hon. Minister of Finance has seen fit to put non-negotiable items ia his contract to deter the developme~t 5!177

April 26,· 1973 Tape no. 1304 Page of the Lower Churchill so that the people of that portion of the pruvince will be deprived of the benefits of that great development. It is a sad thing, Mr. Speaker. It is indeed a very sad thing. Although perhaps the Minister of Finance, his reservations and his methods for refusing.are for holding up negotiations with the BRINCO people. Maybe he has not come 4 out and said that those are the things, The province is going to suffer, we are going to lose some $23 million. Maybe, Mr.

Speaker, it would be to the advantage of this province and to the advantage of the people of Labrador and to the advantage of the people of the Island of Newfoundland if the minister had gotten together with the BRINCO Organization, gotten together with the federal department and said; "Look rather than put· that $12.S million or whatever the sum is into Goose Bay,going for a temporary period of three years, why not give this money over to the province?

We in turn can give this concession to the BRINCO Organization and that would indeed be an enticement, maybe an enticement that they could have gotten that programme started this year. The direct benefits that will come in as a result of getting that programme going would indeed maybe be more beneficial than dropping $36 million, $38 million or $40 million into Goose Air Base for a temporary period of three years.'' No-, Mr. Speaker, we were not that close. The government administration were not that close to Labrador. They did not see the advantage of offering the federal government that sort of a deal.

I am sure that the people in Goose Air Base would rather work for the five or seven years that it is going to take for the development of Churchill Falls and looking at an enticement from that development to go on to further development. They would rather look at that than the sure thing that USAF is going to be out of there in t976. 597b

April 26, . 1973 tape DO• 1304 Paa• ' Maybe, Mr. Speaker, it will not last until 1976. All the people now are led to believe that there will be a gradual phaae-down,come .July l,and a gradual phaae down over a period of three years. Maybe in a year-and-a-half from now there will be very few people left. this is a sad thing when you cannot plan. Planning at this stage in our economy - if you cannot plan for twenty years, if you have to do it in three year stages, it is going to be very difficult indeed. 1 feel, Mr.

Speaker, that if we had in Goose ·Bay soma rupouible senior civil servant, with a frequency of visits, et- up by the cabinet to do the circuit - indeed, Sir, bafora the March elec~ion of 1972, we had an influx of cabioet ministers in Goose Bay. I think we had four on one particular visit. I felt at that time and 1 still feel that they were veL"Y sincere when they promised an adainistration building for Happy Valley. when they promised; "Yu, we must get involved, we must bring that government which sit in St. John'•• not on Signal Hill, down to Labrador so yo~ people can get a feel of it. We are going to do it!

It wu a great disappointment, Hr. Speaker, fourteen months have gone by and we hava aeen l••• and lus. I guess the message is that it is a lack of concern. It is a l~c:k of feeling. It is a feeling of neglect. 1 will probably go a little bit . further, Mr. Speaker, and say that it is rejection. It is rejection~ It is gross neglect and rejection by this administration. lb.ey have literally washed their hands and their responsibility away from the people of that portion of the province.

We talked in. terms which has always been a priority item, of one of the most important things which we want .' I have :,id on a number of occasions: when we think in terms of the Highway Department, the hon. Minister of transportation and Co11111unications had not given 597~

April 26, 1973 ' Tape no. 1304 Pe,ge 6 of his programmes, his expenditure ·s this year to this House. It was withheld from this House for some reason or another. I do not know why, Kr. Speaker. I gamble to guess now that there is not one mile of pavement in that for Labrador this year. There is not one mile of road or upgrading. Maybe there is a forest access road, where a percentage of the cost is shared by the federal government. I venture to guess now - I was very lenient when I talked with the minister in private on a number of occasions.

I said,ujust give me five miles for my district, five miles out of your total budget, some $40 million odd, just five miles, just a token, just a recognition. Let us be a part, please. We are begging! Let us be a part! Consider us one little piece." I obviously doub~ that it is in there, Mr. Speaker. At least I have not heard and the minister has not come up with the good news to say that they will support any paving or indeed any upgrading. Big rumours, Mr. Speaker! Big rumours in this House!

There was a question asked of the honourable Premier, going back maybe three weeks ago,concerning the negotiations for the trans-Labrador Highway. There vu a very brief reply. "Oh sure, we are going to talk with Bourassa and the Premier of Quebec, 598G

April 26. 1973 Tape 1304 Page 7 - PK We are goinr, to get tor,ether with those federal pe-ople! But they are not thinking in terms of just contributing a little on their own, a token. just a little bit of beef ,"Corne on, we are going to give this much. How much are you going to give?• They are not putting that road upon an auction block to see who is going to pay for it, to see who is going to contribute. The federal department of DREE, the federal department of the Ministry of Transport, Mr. Speaker, has been very receptive to cpening up that part of Labrador.

I feel,as I have said on a number of occasions, the only way that you are going to cement this province together is to get a physical li~k with the island·portion of our province ·, to get a physical link, to have it accessible through normal means of transportation. Normal means of transportation today, Mr. Speaker, when you live in a city like St. John 1 s,where you cannot fly out because of the f~g, the normal means of transportation is surface transportation, is road transportation. It lends itself to the people.

It is not dear, le ha.s flexibility,you can travel on it wh~never you like. you do not ~ave to wait for the aircraft to come in, you do not have to • wait for the ship to come in, when you get up in the morning,whether it is five otclock or six o'clock or if it is on Christmas Day at twelve o'clock, you car, 6:>t in your car and you drive m1ay •. Now there are not great numbers of people in Labrador. I venture to say and I ask the honourable the Minister of Finance there a couple of years ago: What is the revenue that comes into this province from Labrador? What is the revenue in comparsion to the expenditure'?

We do not have an economic base. We have a very low standard of living, Mr. Speaker, in a lot of our areas , b ut I venture to guess the revenue that is coming out.of.there is far greater than what is put back in. I do not want to think in terms, Mr. Speaker, that we should divide this island portion or this province up into sectors and say SU81

April 26, 1974 Tape 1304 Page 8 - PK , look give us the amount of revenue that comes out pf there,in return give us the expenditure.the things that we waat in services and public services. I do not mean that at all. But what I $m saying, I think that we should be considered for a fair portion if we have in our coastal communities a low standard of living and if we have, because of the economy, hecause of the fishing economy and if we have in Goose Bay, Labrador,or the Lake Melville Area.a low standard of living because of the uncertainty that exists, there is no permanency in the industry there.

Because of that why do we not look at the wealth that is coming out? Why do we not look at the programme of Churchill Falls, part of our land, a great fallsr Why do we not look at the royalties from the iron ore? know. I do not I had a particular person say to me a couple of days ago, talking in terms of the ice probe into Lake Melville, s9me means whereby we could lengthen the shipping season in and out of that port for a longer period of time,to make it more advantageous to get involved in some shipment of raw materials.

This particular person said to me. he said •• Sir, if your provincial government is not interested in that great wealth, that great mineral that exists in Western Labrador, in the undeveloped areas, the areas that now are not developed, if they are not interested,I could sell that, Sir, to the people of Philadelphia. They would indeed be very pleased to get involved.• Mr. Speaker, when we think in terms of economic development, when we think in terms of iron,(the honourable the Minister of Economic Development is not in his s~at ~oday) I doubt very seriously, '!'41-.

Speaker, I stand to be corrected on this I suppose, but I doubt very seriously if the ~inister of Economic Developemnt was ever in Labrador. Sure he has been fed a few pamphlets, he has heen briefed by his officials, But what contributions have been made? The honourable the Minister of Finance is lag~ing behind 5U82

April 26, 1973 Tape 1304 Page 9 - PK on the development of the Lower Churchill, lav.tinR behind. He is not takinp, into consideration, Mr. Speaker, that come Maybe two years from now the total economy of Goose Bay is ~oing to collapse because the Americans are going to pull out of there. Our federal government are going to turn around and say; "No indeed,we do an operational role now, we cannot spend any more money.• We do not have the Americans in support.

We do not have any tenant organi?.ations h support but we look in terms of that Gull Island Development, Mr, Speaker,.•• a mainstay, as a stablizer in that econom~. 'nle honourable the Premier is not in his seat today, neither i• the honourable ~inister of Industrial Development but I say, Mr. Speaker, that not being derogatory in any respect to the minister, l feel that if he does not feel in his heart that is a good development, he should in turn consult with the people who live in the immediate- area.

Be owes it to the people of Newfoundland, and no doubt it 12 not going to be a big thing for.the honourable minister possibly but he should indeed relieve himself of that responsibility to negotiate and send some other senior minister up .to negotiate and get ·his wo~thwile programme' going. • It is beneficial. The focal point is the nucleus that we need for development, We need that cheap power.

He should indeed, Sir, have the wisdom to get up and say to the BRINCO organization;uI did not have . a threat in that budget, That was not a threat, Sir. what I had in that budget was that I want to feel out and see how receptive you were. Now we are prepared to give a little, to give a little and indeed get that programme going this sUllll!ler, to take into consideration that the people in Labrador need ~ it and they must have it. We are prepared to sacrifice a little in that respect." This is not my personal opinion. It is my personal feeling but a lot of people in this province and indeed in Labrador, Mr.

Speaker, share the same views that I ahare, The Tran"i--Labrador Highway - we heard the Minister of Communications and Transportation saying that this hir,hway ia not built to our standards. It is not built to our standards. It was a poor engineering job when 5U8!i

April 26 , 1973 Tape 1304 Page 10 - PK they built that Trans Canada f?ip;hway across this province. There are a lot of slopes. Mr. Speaker, the.re.are a lot of grades that are not properly curbed. How would you like to live in a portion of the province. Mr. Speaker. and I know you cannot answer that, how would you like to live in a portion of the province where you have no roads at all, there are no means? Would you settle for a little curb or a little grade that is not particularly suited to you once in a while? I think those are the areas, those are the big concerns.

The honourable the minister without po.rtfolio ,for St. J.ohn' s East, is saying that the Trans Canada is not adequate. We need in this province a four-lane highway stretching from St. John's to Port aux Basqu~s. Four lanes, four lanes, then we are not going to have any traffic accidents. They are going to solve all those traffic accidents, Mr. Speaker. We are not going to have that. The federal government have to reco,i;nize that we are not sbppnse ~n 11,, .. under a second class standard, our hip;bways have to be of the same standards as they are in Ontario.

I wonder if it ever cBIT1e to the honourable minister's mind, when he was speaking.that we do not have a highway at all, ~r. Speaker. I wonder if that ever crossed his mind,that in that portion of the province there are no such thingsas highways, Now,Sir, I venture to say,I do not have supportinp; docLDTtents,but when the honourable the Minister of Transportation and Communiclltions presents to this House his programr.ie of works for this year,I am waiting in anticipation of how much is going to be spent in Labrador.

And if there is not one mile of paving, not one mile, I am not going to he disappointed, I am expecting it, I do not think it is there. But if it is there, I will welcome it, just one -mile, two miles, if I can get five miles of road,on the petition that I presented from Happy Valley to Northwest River, just five miles, just a taken, Hr. Speaker, just something to say yes, we recognize you. We know, we want you to feel a part of us, just one five mil~s, I will be very happy indeed. But I am very much 5tl84

April 26 . 1973 Tape 1304 Page 11 - PK afraid that it is ~oing to be another year of disappointment, another year of disillusionment, a long winte~, had a long winter last year. Mr. Speaker, the ice came in early.lots of snow, cold, fro~t, lots of time to sit dcn..-n and think in terms of what people were trying to. do . Now in the long winters when you sit around the stove and the wind is howling on the outside and you think in terms of the honourable the ~inister of Finance, what is he going to do for us this year? We know it is budget time coming up now pretty soon. I wonder what is in the budget for us.

And when you get thumbs down, Mr. Speaker, when you get nothing, it is like the days of Santa Claus when you got an apple and you were happy with it. But we have to be happy with it• ~ut then again,! think there is evidence that it is not going to last forever. And we have not had one strand of evidence to prove that there are any negotiations going Qll with the federal r,ovemment concerning a Trans-Labrador Highway. Have we asked for it? No, Mr. Speaker, there has been nothing said apout it.

I will again go an record in this honourable House and say that this government shall not pave every road in this province; if there is a dirt road of a good standar~, first give it to Labrador. We are prepared to wait for four or five years or to use a dirt road for four or five years. All we ask for is a roacf. We do not ask for a paved road iD1111ediately. The Rural Development Authority, Mr. Speaker, I welcome the Rural Development AuthoTity. Good words ''kural Development Authority;• good words!

No doubt that the minister has apent or has, given a DtJmber of loans, maybe a lot of these loans will be forriveness loans, Mr. Spealr.er. to help development in ruTal aTeas. We have not yet heaTd in my district of ruTal development. Never heard of it! I undeTetand in the last couple or three or four days that they weTe thinking in terms of appointin~ someone, ~h~ ministeT mentioned to me at on~ time, as a matteT of fact. we are goinp. to appoint someone for your area. I have not heard of it, MT. SpeakeT, a number of people in the area would 5U85

April 26, 1973 Tape 1304 Page 12 - PK sure like to get in on that programrne,but there is again a lack of communications. The honourable the Minister of Industri~l Development, Mr. Speaker. has just arrived in the House. I am thinking in terms of going back to the points just brieflr ,. Mr. Speaker, to the Lower Churchill, the Gull Island Development. I would indeed like to refresh the minister's memory and think :f.n terms (maybe,the honourable minister seems to he a bit of a diplomat in his own right, Mr.

SpeakerJ of his getting involved and seeing if they cannot come up with a compromise on the Lower Churchill. AN HON. 'KEMBFR: 1DWARD: We are working on it. They are working on it. The same thing has been going on ·'We have been working on it.A Mr. Speaker, for how many years? AN HON. }!EMBER: Inaudible. ~. WOODT~AJID • l'rl:!mi.er S!T''I.J] wood was - AN HO~. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. WOODWARD: Fifteen months now. The road has been paved figuratively speaking, the one programme is ,. already nearing completion. It is . only an extension of that programme.

It is not that difficult now to negotiate but still somehow now they do not feel fit to get that development going. They like to deprive the people of that particular area of that benefit. AN HON. MEMBER: It is not true. MR. WOODWARD: Gross negligence, Mr. Speaker. A.~ HON. M'fl·IBER: That is not true, Sir. MR. WOODWARD: Gross negligence. Criminal negli~ence. Maybe, Mr. Speaker, this will indeed arouse the great negotiating abilities that the honourable minister has and he will get in-there, in fact fighting for the people in Labrador - AN HON. }~F.R: Inaudible. ' MR. WOODWARD: In Goose Bay, Mr. Speaker. 5!J8(j

April 26, 1973 Tape 1304 Page 13 - PK A.~ HON. ME?•'RF:R: All of the way. MR, ·WOODWARD: All the way he is with us, There is no doubt, Mr. Speaker, that he is going to get . involved. There 1s no doubt that he is goinR. to phone Mr. Mulholland, he :ls going to say; "Come .on down, we are both ready to negotiate. We want to get the thing going," AN HON. ~~ER: No doubt about it. MR. WOODWARD: No doubt about it. Maybe if you ask the federal government for that money that they are pumping into Goose Bay for three years, you could have bad the thing go, Mr.

Speaker, How.much money can we get for that Trans Labrador Highway? Oh we are working on it, we are working on it, We are going to get something, 5!!87

April 26, 1973 Tape 1305 IB-1 Mr, Speaker, I would like to say that I would invite and I assure the honourable minister, to our next meeting. I think that he should attend a meeting of the project group in Goose Bay, It will be very educational for him. BON, W, DOODY: (MINISTER OF INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT): Excuse me! May I comment on thatf That ministerial level should not be involved but my colleague from Labrador West and myself would both love to be involved in th~ project group activities. Mr. Speaker, our federal counterparts will join us.

MR, WOODWARD: Mr, Speaker, unless we get the minister involved and unless we get the honourable member for Labrador West, the Minister of Social Services and Rehabilitation - I will take it upon myself, Mr. Speaker, to invite them to our meeting. They are the policy makers in this government, They should be at that meeting. They should take a direct look at that economy. They should not be fed second-hand information from civil servants. That is why they are sitting in this House today. Maybe the honourable the Premier will see fit to get involved. It is an important iasue.

It is an ongoing thing from crisis to crisis. Three years from now we will be involved with the same thing as we are involved with today, Mr. Speaker. AN HONOURABLE ME~ER: Did I miss something? You are very upset today. MR. WOODWARD: I am not upset, Mr.· Speaker. Not indeed. Not at all. The hon~urable minister is the one that is upset. I am not upset. I am just trying to arouse the enthusiasm of the 'minister to get him going, Mr. Speaker. Why should they not get involved?

I am looking at a very gloomy picture and I am very sorry that the honourable Premier and the honourable minister were not in the House when I opened my remarks and looked at the gloomy picture that exists in Labrador. Now, they are making fun at it, ~r. Speaker. Fun, indeed funJ Mr, Speaker, they are making 5988

April 26, 1973 Tape 1305 IB-2 fun at 1t. It is a joke. We are going to have twelve or thirteen thousand people,come three years from now,without jobs, families, large families, people with nowhere to go,that have lived in Labrador; and they are making fun. Shame, Mr. Speaker, shame indeed on the administration! Mr. Speaker, I thought we got rid of those trips, those LSD trips but we are getting back to them again. We are getting back to LSD again, Mr. Speaker, and now we are thinking in terma of trips. He baa completed the circle. What is that terminology? AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Come full circle. MR.

WOODWARD: Come full circle, Mr. Speaker. Come back.to LSD, Come full circle in this province. Sad indeed. It is not a joking matter, Mr. Speaker, and I indeed would like to feel that the honourable the Premier along with his minister. that able, senior minister of his, th~t Minister of Industrial Development whoia going to have to put the honourable the Minister of Finance in the background. He is the diplomat. Be is .a diplomat in the honourable crowd, Mr. Speaker. He is t~e one goes in smiling and comes out without a lollipop. Re is indeed the one.

Sir, he is the one who is going to have to sit down and do the negotiations. The· honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Speaker, is too hard-boiled, no flexibility, no heart, no feelings for people, the hard, cold cash. Fortunate for me that I was never involved in a situation like that, in worshiping the cold, hard cash, Mr. Speaker. Sad thing~ Now, Mr. Speaker, we have the solution. We have the solution to the ills in Labrador. It is ri~ht here. It ia called a Royal Conanission on Labrador. It is going to solve all of our problems. That Royal Com~is~ion indeed is going to solve all of our problems.

People are flocking into the halls,into hearings of the commission.in enormous groups flocking in. In one particular cofflllalnity hall they had to expand the doors,

April 26, 1973 Tape 1305 People were walking in in crowds. They were rushing in. They got choked up in the doors. They could not get through there. IB-3 Mr. Speaker, what improvisation are we getting? What research are we doing? What are we finding? What depth is there to this study? Mr. Speaker, myself and the honourable Leader of the Opposition made an announcement when government was setting up the Royal Commission on Labrador, welcoming the commission. Sure, they might as well spend it on the commission.

They are not going to put it in roads, they are not going to do any development of fisheries, so why not put it into a commission? Fine: Not wanting to deprive the island portion of that money, not wanting to be selfish but put it in ~he commission. Maybe it will do some good. If it does not do any good, well, we are going to lose the money anyway. So, here it works both ways. That co111111ission, Mr. Speaker, is a complete flop, the decisicris. Travel throughout the distriet~ ~n~ find out what the Royal Co11111ission on Labrador is doing, a complete flop, Mr. Speaker.

No doubt there is a lot of information being compiled. I have reservations if this information is the true feeling of the people. There has got to be a lot of boosted up, souped up information, a lot of crazy ideas. Maybe it was out of reach to us for another hundred years, putting people into an organization, going on to an undeveloped part of our province, Mr. Speaker, sailing around on cloud nine. A gross was~e of :t10neyl I would have welcomed that $200,000 or $300,000 for a water and sewerage programme to go into the community of Makkovik, a case where it is poverty documented.

The honourable Minister of Health is not in his seat. A case that is documented where we had this year a known fifty-one cases of hepatitis in a community because of the contaminated water system. What has been done to correct that situation? A very disturbins document, Mr. Speaker. A very disturbing document circulated around,notices sent out to the 5~9G

April 26, 1973 Tape 1305 IB-4 people in the community, "Boil your water. It ia not fit to drink. Boil it. If you do not, you are going to end up in the hospital with hepatitis." What has been done? It 1• over a year ago. Studies have been made. The old saying i.n Labrador now is and the Royal Co11U11ission on Labrador sparked the thing off, "We have been studied to death. Why are they studying us again? What is so peculiar about us? Are we not the natural type creatures that they have in other parts of the province?u Studied to death! We do not want Royal Commission, Mr. Speaker.

We want a good, strong minister in the Cabinet who is going to get up and say, "Look, give me a fair portion of what is going around." · Say to his colleague, "Let us split it up. Let us divide it evenly. Give me our portion. We are not going to have this diagruntlednesa that already exists in Labrador. We are going to get our fair share.

Spread it around." Not to have the Minister of Highways sit d~ and say, "Look, I am going to programme our work ,but I am not going to spend one dollar in Labrador on roads this year." The ~~nister of Health,through the Grenfell Mission,three years ago started a programme for the expansion of the ho9pital, the Paddon Memorial Hospital in Happy Valley. Thia year I have been informed we are getting a doctors'. reaidence. I do not know how many beds we are going to put in the basement, Mr.

Spea~er, but I am sure that it is going to be a number that I have to go in the basement of the doctors' residence if we are going to look after the medical needs of the people in that area. Three years ago there was a study made. Recommendations vere made. Department officals were all geared up,ready to go. Since then we have gotten a doctors' residence. That is what is in the budget. That is what is in the Department of Health budget for Labrador this year. For capital, one doctors' residence. Not going to get many beds here, Mr. Speaker. Sad: Nevertheless, we can fly them in to St. John's.or fly them into 5U91

April 26, 1973 Tape 1305 St. Anthony if they are prepared to pay their board while they are wa~ting to get into the hospital, if they can pick up one hundred and twelve dollars in an air fare. They are going to have to 'pay it. We cannot look after them but then again we will keep them in, put them on the sidelines, let them wait. That is the attitude, Mr. Speaker. That is the attitude of the government we saw fit. ., The Royal Commission on Labrador,as we had predicted, is a delaying tactic. MR, ROBERTS: A snow job, IB-5 MR. WOODWARD: ' A snow job is very appropriate, very appropriate indeed.

I am glad you mentioned it, the honourable Leader of the Opposition. It is a now job, Mr. Speaker. It is a snow job indeed and! think this government will be very wise and I am sure that the honourable the Premier can headinto this. We are not going to wait. We are going to get something going. Fortunately enough they have got to include the eltl)enditures now, the expenditures in the minister's mini-budget,when he brings it down. It is not in the estimates any more, Mr. Speaker. They have got to go to the expenditures, the things that we are going to get in Labrador. They neglected to put it in the budget.

Now, it has got to go into the mini- budget of the honourable the minister. We are going to be. pleased indeed! MR, ROBERTS: That will be the only good news in the minL-budget. MR, WOODWARD: That will be good news,along with the teachers' salaries. That is $22,000,000 for Lab.rador. That would be welcome news. We ' would need nopetition after that, Mr. Speaker. rou would not have people going around sayin _g, "I will sign to get rid of that administration, get away from that portion of the island. I will sign to get rid of it ~" Why do we- nett get a little bit of bait? Why do we not get a few things?

Why do they not offer us a few candies, just a few incentives so we can hang on for a little while longer? AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Hot dogs. 5!19~

April 26, 1973 Tape 1305 IB-6 MR. WOODWARD: Hot dogs? Submarine hot dogs, Mr. Speaker. V~ry good. We can use them during the all night sessions in this Hou,e. They ar~ indeed very tasty. I do not know who paid for them'. I think it was the honourable the Leader of the Opposition who paid the bill. Sadi Medical services very sad indeed. Mr. Speaker, another retrenchment in the organization and very disturbing, Provincial-federal relationships. Sounds like a love affair. There is no love affair there, Mr. Speaker. The inter-department of government affairs, that is the one that the honourable the member for St.

John's South did not elevate to the high office of the Cabinet,so he said. Oh, what is another Cabinet minister, Mr. Speaker? What. is another Cabinet minister? We already have eighteen. One time this administration wa going to have twelve,I think was the number, twelve Cabinet ministers. Theil Va t •• d fourteen. Now, there are nine teen. I think that he refused to come in, Mr. Speaker. I think he refused to come in. Mr. Speaker, do I deserve the right to be heard in silence? I Mr.

Speaker, provincial-federal relationsh1p: The honourable · Minister of Education,going back a short while ago,held that iaportant portfolio. I said to the honourable minister one day, "Bow much money can we get,for that Trans•Labrador Righway,out of the Provi~cial Government?". 599t

April 26, 1973 Tape 1305 JM - 7 •oh, we are working on it. We are working on it. We are goinr, to get something.• No doubt about that,we are going to get something. What •will we get, Mr. Speaker? Maybe we will get some pavement on the arterial road in Corner Brook. There was no mention of that. Because of the very difficult geographic position of Labrador we depend quite heavily on transportation and co11m1unication. We depend quite heavily on the federal support. We are very pleased this year to be getting, through the telestat, through the Annex satelite.coloured television in our region.

It is a welc01lling thing. It came from the Federal Government in Ottawa, Mr. Speaker. That was one of the promises made too, 11 By 1975 we will have coloured television in the Community of Nain and every community in the North,oefore 1~76,with a population of over 500,will have the means of coloured television," AN HON. MEl-'BER: (Inaudible). MR. WOODWARD: No, that includes Northern Labrador and the Northwest Territories and Northern Newfoundland, But, Mr. Speaker, this is an area where I was very hopeful, indeed hopeful, not as much ! ·suppose when the restructuring was done by the admini tration.

When that thirty or forty per cent increase was bTought in.we felt maybe it is going to be good, maybe they need mor~. They are not as capable now as the previous administration, they need more support. They need more people to rely on. But if they need that,then again we cannot blame it on them, their weaknesses. The people of the province put the~ in office so ~e are going to have to give them all the support and we are going to devote them another thirty or forty per cent for the administration charge and we are going to soup them up and then we are going to fortify them with executive civil servants.

Indeed we are looking forward to havini a good administration. AN HON. MEMBER: Do not forget the aircraft. MR. WOODWARD: So, Mr. Speaker, what happened in this case? The department that we were looking to for federal relationship, getting 51194

April 26, 1973 Tape 130:, behind, having awareness,as we are an integral part of this province, having the provincial people leading us into Ottawa, lending us their officials, lending us their expertees, The honourable Minister of Industrial Development,with his lollipop smile,going in to the honourable minister's office, Marchand,in Ottawa,and say, "Look, Rive us a couple of good periods for Labrador,''. How can he refuse him, Mr. Speaker? These are the things that we were looking for. These are the high expectations that we had built up.

They are not coming down from Ottawa and leading us by the hand, not coming down to Labrador and leading us up to Ottawa •. No, Mr. Speaker, when we have to go to Ottawa we go as a lowly· community cou~cil or we go as a lowly individual. We do not get any support from the provincial government. They do not give us any support, Mr. Speaker, not from the provincial government, If ve have to deal with the federal go,vernment,we have to do it on our own. Shameful, neglectful indeed! It should not be allowed. It should not be allowed, Mr. Speaker.

Last year, looking at the esti~ates for fisheries, last year, since long gone,the honourable Minister of Fisheries, a very courteous man, a very good man indeed, a smiling gentleman, could not take the pace, could not take the pace on the other side of the House with the honourable crowd, saw the opportunity, Mr, Speaker, JM - 8 to bow out very gracefully, slip awa~.

I had a number of conversations with the honourable the minister ~oncerning fisheries development in the North, a great potential,the artic cha~, salmon,a great potential, '9 wanting someone to get involved in the transportation aspect of it, wanting someone to get involved in the marketing of this particular fish, wanting someone to get involved in the enticement to upgrade the fishing industry, getting behind the fishermen, sent an official around Labrador.

They sent an official down last sumpier, Mr, Speaker, and must to the surprise of the people he was thinking in terms of doing some whaling,when the whaling fishery was abandoned, "Oh, we are 5995

April 26, 1973 Tape 1305 going to open up new whaling factories for Beluga whales in Hopedale." A great industry! They have seen about four in their lifetime in the community. The things that we had to develop were not even mentioned. Since that time, Mr. Speaker, our people have not heard of the Department of Fisheries. Maybe through some assistance from a clerk who works in the Department of Labrador Services,now he will go there and tell them, "We are going to fix your boats.

We are going to have a look at your nets to see if they are worth putting in the water this year," But that is the extent of what is being done. It is a sad, sad, gloomy picture indeed, Mr. Speaker! It is a picture that has been painted so gloomy that people are losing faith. I think they have already lost faith and now they are losing hope. Eventually I suppose they will recede into their own little comers and not be heard of. It is sad indeed, That is this provincial fishery that we have in that part of Labrador, in Labrador North, the char fishery, the salmon fishery. Mr.

Speaker, to develop it on a rational basis,to suit the needs of the people in that particular area,can provide,if properly managed,one of the highest standards of living anywhere in-this province, one of the highest standards of living,! would say comparable to the standard of livini of the salmon fishermen on the British Columbia Coast. But what have we done, Mr. Speaker? We have done nothing. Not one thing have we done. I went in to a salmon river last year and there was an old gent~eman up there with his boat, a little tent upon the top. with a dog in the back,with a hole in the stem, one net.

With a family of four, one net, an old one-liner, one dog,and this was the way I provide a living for my famiiy. It is sad. Regardless of what it is, Mr. Speaker, regardless of when it came about, what I am saying is what have this administration with their glorious promises, what have they done to assist that fishing industry? 5tl96 JM - 9

April 26, 1973 Tape 1.Jv .· JM - 1(1 Nothing, nothing. We have not seen a cabinet minister on the Labrador Coast, not one man went to that coast. I had a programme going, I will 'tell the honourable Premier that I had a pro~ranime going that the Liberal administration would have flicked me out of the cabinet or I would have gotten what I wanted if we had stayed in office, That was my purpose for getting in there, Mr. Speaker. I was not in the cabinet to bow down to them nor worship them. I went in there to fight my way into bringing back their standard of living.

We do not have anyone doing it now, very soft-toned, AK HOR. MEMBER: What happened? MR. WOODWARD: I never had the opportunity, Mr. Speaker. AN HON, MEMBER: You will. MR. WOOP.WARD: I never had the opportunity. If I had the opportunity I have subsidized air ways going into Labrador. I have a programme going, AN HON. MEMBER: Why do you not give them a cut of the stevedoring? HR. WOODWARD: I will give them a cut of the stevedoring. I have already done it, Mr.

Speaker, no·problems at all, They are all sharing in the benefits, about three quarters of a million dollars in payroll last year into the co111111unity.and the people loved it, three quarters of a million dollars. I am not prepared to lie down. But these are the sad things, Mr. Speaker, It is not that the resources are not here.

If you had give me a million dollars, one million dollars;which is peanuts, the honourable Leader of the Opposition says. ''You know, it is only money, so what?" Give me one million dollars and I could develop that fishery so that you vould not have one person, not one person on welfare or not one person drawing unemployment insurance benefits, It is the moat luxurious businesa that you can get involved in today, ·the char fishing, the salmon fishing. Have you eaten lobster around town, Mr. Speaker? I should not ask you that, you cannot answer it. Have you eaten lobster around town in the last day, Mr. Speaker?

Do you 51197

April 26, 1973 Tape 1305 know what the price of lobster in the restaurants of the nation is? $4.90 a pound, Mr. Speaker, for lobster. I cannot afford it. The honourable Minister of Industrial Development can but I cannot afford it, Mr. Speaker, $4.90. How many restaurants are buying salmon and char from Nain and putting it in the various restaurants? Even in this little city, Mr. Speaker, no they are not concerned about that. They are not concerned. They are concerned about Signal Hill. That is their big concern.

We have to hold on to that heritage, that Signal Hill, the defenders of the faith, we must protect it. They cannot get involved with that fishy name, that smelly, dirty fish. We have to protect Signal Hill. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. WOODWARD: It is the attitu~e, Mr. Speaker, and I believe in attitudes. If people take the attitude that what we are doing is good enough, fine,and then this is all they will do. I think it is the attit11de. I would like to see the honourable n,lnister; the honourable the Premier now got a mesaage,a couple of days ago, there are going to be problems.

We know that there are going to be problems. You can alleviate those problems. You can just go down, take this particular budget. You cannot take it now, Mr. Speaker, as it is already passed through the honourable House, take the estimates, the salaries. I do not think we should have too many people making $20,000 a year on salary and feeding off the other people in this province. We should scale it down, scale it down to a sizeable living, maybe not -a.meager living, Mr.

Speaker, but scale it down to at least $14,000 qr $15,000 and give me the excess money that we can save on this particular programme and I can go in and develop those things and then you are not going to have disgruntled people,but unless you have people who can go in and are prepare~ to go in to devote their time. Do you know what represent~tion we have in Labrador? I will not hide it, Mr. Speaker, We have a bunch of foreigners going 5"98 JM -11

April 26, 1973 Tape .1.305 around in the outport communities workinR for the axteneion service• and what are they doing? I will tell you what they are doing, they . are telling the p~ople, "Look, you are getting a raw deal. Take my advice and get out. Do not pay any attention to what they are doing in St. John's but get out on your own and have us to lead you. We could do better for you. Have us to lead yo_u." AN HON. MEMBER: That is the Tory party, is it not? MR. WOODWARD: I do not know who is heading up the administration of this government but indeed someone.

The estimates were passed here for extension services and we did not know what it was for or how much was being spent. That is privileged information. I do not know how much the extension services of Newfoundland cost ua, how.much we are paying to separate that -portion of the island or that mainland portion from th~ province. I do not know how l!!Uch it is costing but indeed, Mr. Spenker, we are contributing to it. You may not pay any attention to the honourable member fo~ La~rador North as he has only lived up there for seventeen years and he does not know anything about it.

The honourable Premier vill be consulting with his special assistants as they know all about those problems,but do not pay any attention to that honourable member for Labrador North as he does not know what he is talking about. I do know what I am talking about, Mr. Speaker, and the sooner ~e come to grips with those problems, the sooner we destroy the infiltration that is going on,then we are going to live happier and our people will be more peaceful than they are today. MR. DOODY: Is this the extension service? MR.

WOODWARD: It is the extension service along with'a lot of other services that extend out of isolation with no control by this government. MR. DOODY: Do you feel that the extension services - MR. WOODWARD: Mr. Speaker. to answer the honourable diplomat, the JM -12

April 26, 1973 Tape 1305 honourable the Minister of Lollipops, the lollipop smile - AN HON. MEMBER: The all-day sucker. MR. WOODWARD: I would not go that far, Mr. Speaker, not with the honourable minister, the diplomat of that honourable crowd on the other side of the House, very capable, got to promote him, got to get him involved in more negotiations, Mr. Speaker. He has the feeling of the people behind him in this province. He is a great man and he is going to do a lot for us. MR. DOODY: I am ~orry but that was a serious question.

Do you feel the extension services - MR, WOODWARD: I feel the extension service is causing a lot of disturbance, causing a lot of unrest and a lot of abuse of our money that is being spent. Why do we rlot put our own teachers in those communities to teach that· part of the province? Why do we have to im~nrt foreigners to do it? MR. DOODY: Who are foreigners to do it? MR. MOORES: Extension services should be abolished, absolutely't MR. WOODWARD: Should be abolished, absolutely, Did the Premier say that we should abolish the extension services? I did not say that we should abolish it, Mr. Speaker.

I said that we should give direction to it. We should know.what is going on in that department,if we have a government and we are financing it. MR. DOODY: Would the honourable member permit a question? Are you in favour of the extension services on the Coast of Labrador? And what do you mean by foreigners? What is a foreigner? MR. WOODWARD: A foreigner JM -13 &OOL

April 26, 1973, Tape 1306, Page 1 is a teacher who is brou~ht in from the United States, a foreig'ner is a teacher who is brought in from England, a fore1~ner is a teacher who is brought in from the Philippines,who can hardly apeak English and is put in a school with Eskimos who cannot apeak English, and they try to teach. MR. DOODY: Will this cover ••• MR. WOODW>.RD: The honourable the :!-finister of Industrial Development does not understand that one, Mr. Speaker. MR. DOODY: I am trying to ask .•• Mlt. WOODWARD: Ask? He was never exposed to that one. MR.

DOODY: What about the Moravian Missionaries now, would they be included in that? HR. ROBERTS: . On a point of order. My r.olleague has the floor. MR. DOODY: I have asked permission to ask a question. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, to a point of order. ~y colleague has the floor. He has occasionally yielded to the ~entleman from Harbour ~ain, the junior member, the Minister of Industrial Development,and that is fine. Yielding for a question, Sir, is not yielding to a • 1ebate. The gentleman from Harbour Main, if he wish . to speak in the debate will have the same opportunity,as any other honourable• member.

I submit that my colleague is entttled to go on with his apeach without the (I was going to say harassment - not harassment from the honourable member, but harassment from some of the other honourable crowd down in the corner.) HOR • A .J . ~TRPHY: May I speak to. that point of order? HON. F.D.MOORES: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker. I was always ~ ­ under the understanding, with pennission of the Speaker at the time, that any honourable member could ask a question.with the Speaker's concurrence, whoever it was at that time, whoever was speaking at that time.

I understand that the hono·urat>le member, the Minister of Industrial Development, had asked if the member would yield the floor to answer a questir,n. I think that is perfectly proper. The fact that he asked if he considered the Moravian ~~issionaries forei~ners,under the definition he ~ave, I think was a le~itimate 6001

, •.:. April 26. 1973, Tap~ 1306, Page 2 -- apb question. Perhaps they did not know the answer, ~r. Speaker. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, to that point of order again, if I may. The Premier is under a grave misapprehension and it should be set straight. An honourable gentleman who has the floor,as I am sure Your Hon~ur would concur, has the floor subject to the rules of the House,until his time runs out. It does not require the Speaker's permission if the gentleman who has the floo~ · wish to yield. MR. DOODY: Mr.

Speaker, since I am involved, I would like to make one point only on the point of order: It is that I had sufficient c_onfidence in the knowledge and ability of the honourabV member for Labrador North to have been able to respond to me or to ask me not to interrupt him. I did not know that he needed the assistance of the honourable Leader of the Opposition. I will bow to which ever decision they make. MR. SPE>.KER: Order ple~se! To that point of order, the honourable member speaking does not have to yield to a question. If he feels like it he may but the Speaker does not intervene in that at all.

He does have the right to be heard in silence. MR. WOODWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I owe the honourable Minister of Industrial Development the cou~tesy of answering his question. No, Mr. Speaker, I am no·t saying that the Moravian Missionaries are foreigners. I know the history of the Moravian Mission. They came to Labrador two hundred years ago, They are not foreigners. No, a lot of people have accepted to stay. We have current people who come in, t~row their flack in the wind to cause ar. little bit of a disturbance and fly out again.

Those are the foreigners, those are the people, the same type of people you have circulating the petition today in Labrador. Those are the foreigners, those are the people, those are the people who cause the trouble, the disturbance. That is what is happening, Mr. Speaker. We have these problems, we have these problems in education.

April 26, 1973, , "" ,, -~6, PaP,e 3 I will explain the situation. We have an American w~o cornea in from Bosto :i, goes to the principal of the school in Nain, nothing derogatory toward the particular gentleman or gentlemen or gentlewomen, whatever the case may be, Mr. Speaker, but indeed, gettinr, involved in a totally new society, new culture, going down to teach. We have a number of Eskimo children in the school who cannot speak English. This particular person comes in, be it from the United Kingdom, be it from the Philippines, be it from Belgium whatever the case may be.

They come in and they settle in the c0111111Unity. They cannot speak Eskimo but they can go and teach an Eskimo child who cannot speak English? It is an odd situation, Mr. Speaker, it is an odd situation. I appeal to the honourable government to look into situations of .this nature, to become a part, to play ·a

part in those cotmnunities, to get the honourable minister's officials out, get them into the communities, investigate what is going on. Do not wait for a royal commission with a lot of jumbled ·'.p words, a snow job. You wait and wait, then assess and assess, -::.,rl. eventual .ly - when are we going to get some action? When are we going to get some action on these matter, Mr. Speaker? I believe and I am sincere ~-hen I say I believe in the ability of the honourable Minister of Industrial Development, I believe in the ability and sincerity of the Premier that they are concerned about those matters to~ .

Being concerned is not enough, Mr. Speaker. You have to get out and take some corrective measures in this respect, This is the only time people are going to turn around and smile at you when you walk into the community and say, "Thank you very much, sir, you have helped us and we appreciate it." •rn helping lumds"- s0111ewhere along the line this phrase was used. I do not know by whom,but a helping hand in the fishery, a helping hand in education, a helping hand in health, a helpin~ hand in highways and if money is a helping hand, ~r. Speaker, there is 600~

April 26, 1973, Tape :306, Page 4 - apb not~ing in there. What happens? What do you get? I know economics briefly, I know the value of money, I know the temper and reaction of people toward money. I appreciate the feelings of the MiniF~~r of Finance trying to bring in a balanced budget. I feel today, if you could possibly go around with a bill to every citizen of this province and say; "We have a capital debt of fourteen hundred and some odd dollars per person, here is the bill, pay il and now we are out of the hole, now we can start building. That cannot be done, that is not the way you finance a government, MT.

Speaker, that is not the way you deprive the students on the Labrador Coast of getting into the university this year. You do not do that sort of a thing. · These are the problems and they are real problems. They are problems to which there is no attention paid because there is no concem for them. The honourable Minister of Recreation and Rehabilitation - In the restructuring of the administration, Mr. Speaker, I welcomed the ~~pointment of the honourable gentlem~n to the cabinet. I said; ''Good!" A lot of other people in Labrador felt the same way.

"Good we have a man in there, he is going to start fighting for us." We ... have seen very little results, he is being overshadowed, He got down in the third, fourth or fifth layer, now he is down in the scuppers. Re is down in the scuppers, Mr. Speaker, no say at all. Is 'there any say for him? MR. W.N.ROWE: He may say,but nobody listens. MR. WOODWARD: Nobody listens. He is gone down in the acuppers • ._ MR. ROWE: Not even a pump aboard. ~. WOODWARD: Not even a pump aboard, not even a pump aboard.. You could not reach him with a draw-bucket. This is a situation which should be corrected.

It is a situation which should be corrected, Mr, Speaker. I believe and I sincerely believe that the upper layer of the cabinet have not had the necessary exposure to Labrador to have any feelin~ for it. I believe,as you all must feel on a number of occasions, I believe that if you do not have a feelin,; in your guts 6004

April 26, 1973, Tape 1306, Page 5 -- apb for something, then you are going to put very little effort in it. This is a gutless effort. This is a gutless effort, Mr. Speaker, in all of the estimates it is a gutless effort. Threats, threats. Threats of a mini budget, threats of non-negotiable items for Churchill Falls, threats of various natures to deter the development of this province and to deprive the people in the province of making an honest living, to deprive the people of developing the resources. It is sad, it is sad indeed. I just received a note from my honourable colleague,the member for Bell Island.

He informs me, Mr. Speaker, that Ottawa has announced a $10 million road programme for Newfoundland. How much for Labrador? Ten million bucks! This is the opportunity, take the ten mil.lion bucks, say; "We have that big bread basket portion of the province, that portion that we are going to be drawing from for a number of years, our sons and daughters are going to be drawing fTom it tf ,th~y are going to be living on thiA island, now we are going to open it up, we are going to dispense with that disturbance, that rift over ther~.

We are going to make those people happy, we are going to bring them into the fold." Take that $10 million, go to Ottawa and say; "Thank you very much for the DREE programme, now let us work out a deal for a Trans Labrador Highway." MR. ~OORES: We are already doing that. MR. WO<•iJWARD: Mr. Speaker, I am not gullible, If the Premier says he is doing it I take him at his word. We welcome it, it is needed. We cannot wait five, seven, ten or twenty years from now, it has to come now, Now is the time that Labrador must be brought into the stream of life.

We cannot wait for another year, we cannot wait for another fourteen months. If I see that that $10 million is going to be spent here to pave good,standard dirt roads, Pr. Speaker, I may become equally disgruntled as are· the other people, the three hundred people that have put their names on the dotted line and who now live in Labrador. No doubt as the momentum builds there wi~J be 6U05

April 26, 1973, Tape 1306, Page 6 -- apb more. This is the type of progra111me that we need. Sure, we needed Churchill Falls. We needed Chruchill Falls. We have worked out a good deal, Ottawa was very receptive, they came up with a good arrangement for the Minister of Finance on the equalization payments. They said to the honourable minister; ''Do not worry, you are not going to lose any revenue now, we are going to fix that. You are not going to lose any revenue, go ahead ·· with the Churchill, go ahead.

If you can pick up five, seven, ten fifteen ~illion dollars along with the fourteen millions that are coming from the Upper Churchill,go ahead. We are not going to disturb you on it. We will fix the payments so that they will go right into the provincial treasury, so ycu can put more back, so you can build · a road into Labrador.r No. Mr. Speaker, the honourable minister would not fall for that. He said; "No, we want it all. We want the $24 million for sales tax, gasoline tax, There is no rebate on income tax. We are not going even half-way with you, we are not even going to sit down with you.

I will make it public in the House cf Assembly and I will come up and say; 'these are non-negotiable items' if I say we do not negotiate we do not negotiate. I am not thinking about• the number of people who are going to be wi-thout jobs in Goose Bay three years from now,when the Americans pull out completely. I am not thinking about that, I am thinking about a balanced budget." In the same vein, Mr. Speaker, he goes around and boosts the administration of government by thirty or forty percent.

Bad businessl I admire the minister, They say he is an economic brain~ Maybe it is a brain that is a cash register,without feelings. Maybe this is the problem, this is what we are faced with. It is sad, ~r. Speaker, it is sad;but I welcome ~his announcement. The honourable Minister of ~ines and Energy is not in his eitt today. AN RON. ?-fEPIBF.R: He has not been here all week. 6UOli i:

April 26, 1973, TApe 1306, Pa~e 7 M)t. WOODl-!_AP.D..:. Re haa not been here all week, He ii probably · negotiating in Ottawa on offshore drilling. I wake up in the mornin~ and~ turn the radio on and I hear on the stations about the great benefits that are going to come to Argentia, the greats benefits that are going into ~arystown and the great benefits and the number of new companies that are being formed in St. John's to take advantage of the offshore drilling and oil exploration in this province. COIiing from the Continental Shelf. This is going to be great, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order please!

I just want to interrupt the honourable metnber to remind him that he has approximately five or six minutes left to finish up. MR. WOODWARD: Mr. Speaker, ·1 have personally been in touch with exploration people who have been drilling off the Labrador Coast, have concessions off the Labrador Coast. An industry will be opened up to a number ,,f people in that area. What pubHcity has Labrador gotten as far as offshore drilling is concerned? It has not even been mentioned. I understand that there is a possible chance of tvo riga.

Maybe they will be encouraged to go on the Continental Shelf off the Grand Banks so that the benefits can flow into the communities of Marystown. I have nothing against Marystown, I have nothing against Argentia. All I have anything against is the attitude, the way, the narrowmindedness that exists in the adminiBtration. If we are going to be public servants of this province, we should have the decency, the .respect, not to be narrowminded but to distribute.th~. wealth of this province evenly throughout the province, so that every community from Nain through to Port aux Basques gets the same benefits.

Regional disparity is a great problem in Caaada, Mr. Speaker, a great problem. On regional disparity, we have the same thing existing here in our own province~ but more pronounced then in the rest of Canada. What are we doing about it? The haves are 6007

April 26, 1973, Tape 1306, Page 8 get~ing more and the have-nots are getting less and less. When do we reach a saturation point? When do we hit straight,somewhere a happy medium? ~r. Speaker, this is the business of go,·ermnent, this is the business of govermnent. They should get formulas to proportion the wealth of this province on an equal basis, so that we do not have one part of the province crying because they did not get anything and another part of the province saying; "Come on, give us more. We hav~ our roads paved now but we do not have the storm sewers.

We do not have a park, we need another park within a mile.u The planning committee in the restructuring of this govermnent,. I wonder if they took a serious look at this ~hing, Mr. Speaker? Why do I have to sit here in this House on the eve of a crisis developing in a part of our province that is providing a great portion of our revenue and beg an administration to give us a handout? Why do 1 have to do it? There must be something radically wrong.

I will say here in chis House and I will go on record that the honourable Minister of Finance is trying to balance his budget at the WTong time. r,ive Labrador a little bit. ' Go another twelve, fifteen, twenty, thirty million dollars in debt and then say; "Boys, this is our contribution, now we are going to eoualize, now we are going to put a stabilizer in, now wi are going to draw off,n formula whereby we are going to level off the capital debt and we are going to start paying it back. Mr. Speaker, when everyone is up and a portion of the province is down, we get a knife in our back.

We cannot develop because we are not putting enough into the economy, such as the ._ Churchill Falls, I do not know what is going to happen to Julienne Lake, I do not know what John C.Doyle ie going to do with Javelin, 1 welcome any development, 1 welcome any development that can inject money into the system whereby you can get the proper transportation, the proper cotranunications, so that people do not live there for the sake of making money but because they have the amenities 6008

April 26, 1973, Tape 1306, Page 9 and the standards whereby they can sit happily in their homes and say; ''Look, we are very proud to be a part of this province." Not there for the sake of; "I have to ,o up to that ungodly hole and stay for three years to make a living." Not that attitude. Mr. Speaker, we do not need that type of attitude, you do not develop countries with that type of attitude. This is the reason why I say here that the honourable minister is stic~ing us in the back now.

He is trying to bring in a balanced budget or trying to level off the capital debt at the expense of Labrador moreso than the rest of this province. This province has done very well, this province has a lot of roads, this province has a.lot of water and sewers, it has a lot of public services, why do we not portion off a little bit,as was promised, Mr. Speaker, portion off a little bit and say; "Okay, Labrador, here is a portion, we will use this for you, we will do a little bit of retrenchment on the i11land,' Those are the things I would like to see done. Mr.

Speaker, those are the things that would no doubt curtail that disgruntlement, I that thing. I am not supporting any particular organization. I feel very proud to be a Liberal and to sit on this aide of the House as a Liberal, but I want to see things done. My. only purpose for getting involved in government was to see that Labrador got a fair share, to quieten down,. to have it so that my children and the children of my next-door neighbours can live equally as happy as the guy on Circular Road here in the city, or ••• MR. NEARY: ?-11'. WOODW.&.RD: Elizabeth Towers. I will not mention Elizabeth Towers, Mr.

Speaker, I do not think I will mention Elizabeth Towers. MR. SPEAK~..:. I remind the honourable that,except by leave, _hi time has expired. MR. WOODWARD: Thank you, Mr •. Speaker. 6UOS

April 26, 1973, Tape 1306, Page 10 -- apb MR. SPEAKE'R: The honourable Minister of Transportation and Communications: HON. DR. T.C.FARRELL: Mr. Speaker, some valuable information, I think for the · benefit of the House, has just come to my attention. I will ask leave of the House to make a short statement. MR. SPEAKER: Does the honourable minister have leave? MR. NEARY· ~r. Speaker, that statement has already been made on radio from Ottawa. DR. FARRELL: What statement? JofR. NEARY: The ' statement about OREE. DR. FARRELL: I do not know. ~-- NEARY: The road progrmmne. DR.

FARRELL: It is a joint statement which I am making at the same time. MR. NEARY: Well, we could read the paper tomorrow, Sir, or listen to the ~adio tonight, but if the honourabl~ ~i"ister wants to make it and bore the House with it, Sir, by all means go ahead. MR. SPEAKER: Does the honourable minister have leave? Agreed. DR. T.C.FARRELL: I do not think, Mr. Speaker, that I am going to bore the people of Newfoundland with this information. It might bore the poor prople in a certain district, but on the Labrador situation, Sir, I can add to the Premier's remarks that these negotiations have . been initiated.

After very hard (believe it or not) and difficult ne~otiations with the honourable Mr. Jamieson, over a period of many months, we have come up today with a pro~ramme which we both agreed on, which we felt would be of most benefit at this time, an amount in excess of $10 million, $10,220,000 to be exact. The project on which these funds will be spent are

(1) St. Lawrence, Lawn, reconstruction of paving $1.4 million. Two bridges in this area near Lawn, $500,000. From Burnt Islands to Rose Blanche, reconstruction and paving $820,000. Cow Head toward Portland Creek, reconstruction and paving $1 million. For the Bishop Palls - Bay de Espoir Area, reconstruction and paving $3.5 million. 6010

April 26, 1973, Tape 1306, Pa~e 11 -- apb Red Indian Lake - Southwet Brook, new con1truction $500,000, Traverse Brook, Hare Bay, paving $600,000. Baie Verte - LaScie, reconstruction $1 million. Approaches to Hain Gut Bridge and Barasway Brook Bridges which are on the West Coast $160.000. In addition to ••• MR. NEARY~ (Inaudible) DR. FARRELL: Very difficult negotiations,~~- Speaker. ~M,_"(:_ No t!oubt about that. MR. PDBERTS: He hAs difficulty getting the province's priorities. DR.

FARJt.ELL: One of your priorities, I would like to answer the honourable ieader of the Opposition, was the Northern Peninsula Highway. MR. ROBERTS: (Inaudible) DR. FARRELL: Yes, a~ this,by the way, I would like to discuss privately with him. It did come up ••• MR. SPEAUR: Order please! DF. FARP.ELL: We would say - sorry, sir! That is not correct. MR. ROBERTS: DR. FARRELL: >!R. SPEAKER: DR. FARRELL~ It is. It is not correct.

Order please! ., I remember you stating that approxilllately a year ago you were going to need some dermis from the hide of my ho~ourable and iood friend. the Minister of Finance, if this roadwere not paved. Now we are working on it and approximately three million dollars worth of work will be going on on the Northern Peninsula Highway and this important trunk highway to his district, Sir.

I~ was also pointed out by the honourable ~inister for DREE, that the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development will assume responsibility for the portion of the highway that will be inside the boundaries of Gros Mome National Park. !ffi. MOORES:. (fir t

part inaudible) the member for Bell Island. ~~.ll.!.:. What about the gutless ••• >m. ~OORES: They had nothing to do with this. ~. NF.ARY: They had a lot to do with it. 6011

April 26, 1973, Tape 1306, Pa~e 12 -- apb MR. SPEAKER: Order please! I wish to remind honourable members that the honourable minister does have the right to be heard in silence. DR. FARRELL: Thank you very much for the leave. Sir, I will be announcinr, to the various members the approaches we hope to do under provincial government funds,in the next day or so, when we have a look at the whole programme. Thank you. Mt. SPEAKER: Before I recognize the honourable member for St. John's East, it has been brought to my attention in the last few minutes that there are some visitors in the galleries.

I would like to welc0t11e these visitors now, Senator Carter, ~ayor Squires and Councillor ~dder all of St. Anthony, the Chairman of the Community Council of Goose Cove Mr. McDonald and Councillor Murrin. I trust that your visit here is most enjoyable. The honourable member for St. John's East: MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I move that when the Rouse rises to adjourn today, !t stand adjourned until ten o'clock tomorrow morning. Motion, that the House at its rising adjourn until tomorrow moming at 10:00 a.m., carried. MR. SPEAKER: debate. If the honourable minister speak now he closes the !"R• CROS:JgE: Mr.

Speaker, I hope I will ·not be too long. Frankly, I am almost knocked speechless, Mr~ Speaker, I am almost dumbfounded, I am almost without words after listening to the wild, incoherent harangue that we have listened to for the past ninety minutes from the member from Labrador North. There was more nonsense spouted in that ninety minutes than we h4ve heard in this session so far this '1D ye~r since we met,early in February. A lot of what the honourable gentleman said, Mr. Speaker, is what has held this island back for so long.

It is the kind of dangerous tripe, trash, thinking and actions that occurred, particularly in the last eight or ten years,and put this province so far behind. The memher said ,tor example.,that he welcomes any development. It does . 601~

April 26, 1973, Tape 1306, Page 13 -- pab not matter what the development is ant it does not matter what the terms and conditions are that the dev~lopment is done under but he welcomes any development anyway. Anybody proposes a development, anyone who wants to do anything, anyone who wants to use some of our ·natural resources for some money--l!laking purpose and wants us to pay all the bills for it, it does not matter what the terms and conditions are, he welcomes the development, They should go ahead anyway. That is an example of the thinking of the last five or ten years that put us ao far behind.

It is an illustration of the thinking behind the linerboard mill and behind so many of those sour projects. The honourable gentleman said,for example ,.1ust before he ended.that the Minister of Finance should not have attempted to balance the budget. "You know you should not attempt to balance the budget, give Labrador thirty or forty million dollars." What ahsolutP nonsense! This is not a balanced budget, There has not been a balanced budget in Newfoundland since 1949. Thia is certainly not a balanced budget, this is a deficit budget.

Capital and current accou~ts put together,it is a large deficit, as there has to be in this province. A• to borrowing thirty or forty million dollars to spend in Labrador, the money we are borrowing we are spending in a dozen different directions for the development of this province - not just for Labrador but for the whole province. Mr. Speaker, the honourable gentleman spouted so much nonsense that it is really difficult to grasp. He talked about the three non-negotiable items in th~ bud~et that were mentioned in connection with the Churchill Falls project.

He does not care what the terms and conditions are on the Lower Churchill, he does not care what the agreement is with BRINCO or whoever develops it, he just wants it developed. That is all, get on with it and develop it. It does not matter if it is a transmission line from Gull Island to the <;oose Bay Area,accordiny, to the honourable gentleman,and he is the member for Labrador North

April 2~, 1973, Tape 1306, Page 14 - apb but it does not matter if it is a transmission line from Gull Island to Goose Bay, forget that, that should not be a non­ negotiable ite1:1, we should tell BRINCO to go ahead and forget that transmission line. It is going to be an additional cost to thern, but in order to get the development going the honourable gentleman is suggesting they for~et that. He is certainly not helping his districtnor the Goose Bay Area when he suggests that. He says forget the other non-negotiable item.

Then they should pay sales tax and gasoline tax,which will mean thirty­ two million dollars to us over the life of the project - forget that also. that should not be non-negotiable. We should do the same as we did·on the Upper Churchill, impose no taxes at all and suffer the consequences that we suffered in tax equalization last year because of it, the loss of our tax equalization because we did not have those taxes on those 1!trge construction projects. He says forget the other item,which is that BRINCO should pay the normal corporation tax that every ~ther corporation in Canada pays.

For some reason we should agree to

April 26, 1973 Tape 1307 rebate to BRINCO half of the tax they pay to the Government of Canada.which is going to be remittea back to us under the Public Utilities Income Tax Transfer Act. We should forget that and ve should rebate that to them whether they need it or not, whether the project is feasible or not without that, forget that also, ~!Pt get the project under way. Well, what a shortsighted approach to take, Mr. Speaker, to the future of this province.

When we have in the Lower Churchill one of the last few great assets of the province left to be developed,that we should just because the honourable member is anxious to have some construction started in the Goose Bay area, that we should ta~e the short term approach and forget the long term, forget the effort to IB-1 try to see how much we can get out of it for the penple of this whole province. We should forget that end just agree to any conditions so that BRINCO would undertake the project and start thJ.s year. What a eilly, what a harebrain, what a dangerous doctrine. to promulgate,in this House.

That is what the honourable gen.:~t. .an t aid. He said, "Forget these three non-negotiable items, just get it underway. Stop discriminating against the Goose Bay area." He said, "Put the non-negotiable 1telll8 aside. You are depriving the people of Labrador of this development." Now, this is nonsense. Thia development will ?roceed. It will proceed either tbis yekr or next year or the year after but it will proceed. When it does proceed it will proceed under terms and conditions that return to the people of this province the most that we can get out of it,and not otherwise.

"Proceed," the honourable gentleman said, "ve want that cheap power." Who wants the cheap power? The cheap power from the Upper Churchill has gone to the Province of Quebec and the honourable gentleman is not going to get the cheap power down in the Goose Bay 6tl15

April 26, 1973 Tape 1307 IB-2 Area if we do away with that non-negotiable condition that there be a transmisRion line built from .Gull Island to Goose,because there will be no power in the Goose Bay area if that transmission line is not built. Not only that but most of what he said was,of course,in contradiction with what the honourable member for Bell Island said a few days ago when the estimates were being discussed in the House on Industrial Development. It was quite inconsistent with that. They are both wrong.

Now, it is hard to rebut the honourable gentleman because what he said was sp harebrained, it was so illogical, it was so uncommon-sensical that it is difficult to do more than just listen with horror to what he had to say. Now, Mr. Speaker, what about highways in Labrador? This government has already approached the Government of Canada about / a Trans Labrador. Highway going into the Prc•:incc' of Quebec and the Government of Canada has requested that we take a joint approach with the Government of Quebec.

The Minister of Transportation and Communication has been in touch with the people in the Government of Quebec and will be meeting with the responsible minister of the Government of Quebec to agree on,hopefully, a joint approach to Ottawa for that project. AN HONOURABLE ME~ER: What century1 MR, CROSBIE: Never mind what century, Ct will be too quick for the honourable gentlemen because they are over there now praying that it does not happen before the next election, That is how shortsighted they are. It will not be the next century; it will be in this century and this decade and before the next election.

What about other money on roads? There is money in this budget for roads in Labrador which the honourable Minister of Transportation and Communications will be dealing with in a few days time, We are not saying what district. There are districts 6016

April 26, 1973 Tape 1307 IB-3 in Labrador that require more money on roads than the diatrict of Labrador North does although it requires money to be spent on roads also,but there is more than the Goose Bay area to be considered. The honourable gentleman~ own district - he was a member for the district and a minister of the last government. Just a few weeks ago the government decided to abolish the fare being charged on the cable car, so-called,that goes across the river, Northwest River,from the Indian side to the Grenfell side of Northwest River.

We abolished the fare there because it was not worth the trouble of trying to collect it,because a lot of people ·found it difficult to pay it,and that was elim~nated. Thia is not a large thing. It was just an illustration of some of the things that are being done for Labrador by this administration. "Ro money in the estimates for Labrador", he aid. Yet when you look through the estimates you will see what special money there is for Indian and Eskimo housing, for social services, for Labrador services, a new water system in HapJ'Y _Valley, pavement - AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Government of Ca11-ada~ MR.

CROSBIE: It is not Government of Canada. Some of it is aaney from the Government of Canada and some is money from the province. There is a lot of money being spent in the part of this province that is Labrador aa well as in the province itself. Not as the honourable gentleman would want you to think,that nothing is being done there. As for ministers visiting; I would say that the Minister for Labrador Affairs was the member for St.

John's Center who ._ visited Labrador more times in his tenure as Minister of Labrador Affairs than any previous minister of the gov~rnment had done in the twenty-three years since 1949,and he is not even a member for the Labrador districtc. The present member for Labrador West has done the same and is doing the same. We have a member from the Labrador districtsiJolho look• after Labrador Affairs and is doing 601'1

April 26, 1973 Tape 1307 IB-4 a top-notch jo~ of it, What did the honourable gentleman op~osite do in his tenure when he was in the government for a few short mo~ths? He did not visit the area any more than is being done,if as much as at present. He now lives in the district. How are we going to solve the problems of this province, Mr. Speaker, if the approach taken to the people is the ignorant approach suggested and taken by the member for Labrador North. Never give them the facts. Feed their worse prejudtces in trying to clear them up.

He thinks that it is popular in his own district you know to come down here and make a speech like this hoping to get a headline or two,saying that thirty or forty million dollars more should be borrowed to be spent in Labrador. He hopes that it will get him ~ome cheap publicity up in his own district when he knows,if he has any sense at all.and he must have, that it is not possible,that this province is strained to the limit now in meeting the demands for expenditures everywhere in the province, the hospital construction programmes, schools, the university and the rest of it.

He thinks that this will have some cheap appeal in his district. The same thing with the Lower Churchill.

The honourable gentleman from Labrador North has enough intelligence and acumen to know that what he is saying is damaging trash to the .people of this province, that any attempt to put pressure on this government to let the Lower Churchill start w1thout proper conditions, without our getting out of it every cent of revenue that we can for the people of the province would be bad, is bad and therefore the honourable gentleman should be attempting to put no pressure on to encourage us to make some kind of a shortsighted deal just because a political furor is kicked up in his district or somewhere else in the province.

All he did was make a mischievous speech which was against the best interests of this province. That is what he did. Now, I do not mean to rebut anything that the member for 6U1b

April 26, 1973 Tape 1307 IB-5 Bell Island said in this Budget Debate because what he said was a rehash of what he has said all during the time of the estimates and there is nothing he said of any significance to be answered. I had thought, Mr. Speaker, before this House met last year the election being over, the two elections of last year being over, that there might be some chance that the problems of this province could be discussed for at least a couple.of years sensibly and rationally in this House.

That election being over and with the knowledge that for the next four years anyway there would not be another one and with the passions of the pr~vious three or four years,presumably having been over, that in this . House the problems of the province, its difficulties and the solutions to them might be discussed sensibly and rationally.

Commencing last year,immediately after the election and continuing this year,the opposition have failed to seize the opportunity to do that, It is a great pity that everything that we discuss in this House now has to be slanted politically, that we have all got to think of the political effect of what we say here becauae of the approach taken by the opposition. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Untrue. MR, CROSBIE: It is not untrue. A politi'"'cal approach. There is not an ounce of statesmanship in the whole bunch opposite-with the one exception, the member for Labrador South, He is almost too statesmanlike.

Now, ther.e has already . been, Mr. Speaker, a general debate on the estimates. The discussion of the estimates in this House ..., is completely twisted from its proper function. One thing that this House badly needs is a revision of the rules of this House and the rules of the debate. Discussion on the estimates should be for the purpose, ~r. Speaker, of obtaining information from the government as to what the money is to be spent on or what the policies of the governm~nt are. Instead of that we had for 6U1L

April 26, 1973 Tape 1307 IB-6 two or three weeks an interminable Budget Speech with the first item in every department the subject of a general debate and aome of them for several days which is a complete twisting of what shoul~ be done by members of the House when the estimates are being consider~d. So much so that when we get to the Budget Debate there is no point having the Budget Debate because it has already been debated over and over again, day after day, week after week, night after night ad nauseam, so there are no new points to be made on the Budget Spee~h. The rules have to be changed, Mr.

Speaker, AN HONOURABLE 'ME?-1BER: Do we have a quorum in the House? MR. SPEAKER: Would the clerk count the _House,please? MR. CROSBIE: There is a half member in each door there. Put them both together and you have one member. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. CROSBIE: Oh my, there is the pot calling the kettle black. You know, Mr. Speaker, I have not got the heart to make a s~eech here today. For a few brief moments the honourable member for Bell Island spoke from his heart,on television,a week ago last Wednesday,and I want to remember and treasure those moments.

I do not want him to get me.excited here. today. AN HONOURABLE ~MBER: Does he prefer you to his present leader? Is that it? MR, CROSBIE: Well, that is what he implied. To get back to the Budget Debate, Mr. Speaker: The rules of the House have to be changed.

The rules of this House should provide a certain number of sittings for consideration of the estimates,the same as the rules of the House of Commons do,so that then the opposition c~n choose what they want to waste their time on without having the ability to hang the House up indefinitely with needless repetition,such a~ occured here in the last two sessions~ The rules of the Bouse have to be changed for the time limit for speeche~. I do not know any other Rouse in the world that has a time 6U2G

April 26, 1973 Tape 1307 1B-7 limit of ninety minutes, that any time a member can get up in the House that he can speak for ninety minutes and unlimited very of~en,if you are the mover of a motion or somebody replying to it. That is something that really has to be done when this House next meets again,hopefully by agreement of the whole House. If not, then the majority in the House have the responsibility to see that we have some decent rules to act by in this House. The real problems of this province are not discussed, Mr.

Speaker, because the atmosphere of this House prevents discussion of the real issues and some of the real issues and problems that face this province are its unelastic revenues, the fact that the revenues of this province are,as most of them are. unelastic there is not much room for getting ~ore revenue. That is one major problem that nobody seems to want to consider. What happens - I have the accurat• figures now - if we put th~ g...;ulla~ tax up one cent a gallon? We will bet~ million ~nd one hundred and five thousand dollars.

What happens if we put the SSA tax up one per centf We will get eight million, eight hundred thousand dollars. What happens if we put the personal income tax up another per cent? We will take in a million and eighty-six thousand dollars. And the corporate income tax another per cent, we will take in nine hundred and seventy-three thousand. That is all that we will get if we increase the rates of tax in thos~ four main tax areas, At t 11e same time when they are in a position, Mr. Speaker, ot - MR, NEARY: Would the honourable member permit me a question?

Would these have been the tax increases it Ottawa did not have to give the province another $24 million? MR. CROSBIE: I do not mind permitting a question, Mr. Speaker, but I do not want to have the honourable gentleman committing buffoonery 6U21

April 26, 1973 Tape 1307 IB-8 again. He knows the answer to that. This is the position that we are in. At the same time, Mr,- Speaker, our interest costs alone on debt have gone up $12 million between last year and this year and will go up again next year another $12 or $14 million. So if we increased all those taxes together,all we would be doing would be meeting the increased interest payment on the debt we are incurring to have a capital expenditure programme at all in this province this year.

That is the kind of problem we should be discussing and considering in this House rather than the things that we hear dicussed here; the real problems of the province. Row are we going to meet increasing expenditures needed on current accounts to oper.ate all ~he facilities currently under construction, the new hospitals, schools, the university? Where is the revenue going to come from for that? These are the kinds of things that we should be consid6ring seriously. This honourable gentleman made very few promises in the last two elections. We promised to get rid of the Smallwood Administration.

That was the main promise and it has gone with the wind .. The last festering remnants of it are across the House and they will expire when the next election comes if they keep up the pitiful performance they have been getting on with in the last fifteen months.

They will be replaced by the honou~able gentleman now sitting by himself who will come back to provide an opposition with five or six other members of the New Labrador Party or whatever it is called in that election, because the Liberal Party is in grave danger of being like the auk9 of vanishing from Newfoundland,unless it mends its ways, · AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: How do you explain the federal election in October? MR. CROSBIE: The federal election in October! How do we explain that? That is easily explained. 6U22

April 26, 1973 Tape 13r,- IB-9 Mr. Speaker, if I said that I wa• going to leave here and get the Premier and go down and advise the Lieutenant Governor to have a dissolution there would be eight heart attacks opposite. We heard a lot of talk during the debate on the estimates, Mr. Speaker, about mothers' allowance. Every now and then the poor old member for Bonavista North croaks up "Mothers' allowance". If he is not croaking about the motherJ allowance, it is about the blueberries down in Bonavista North. They are his two favorite topics, the blueberries and the mothers allowance.

The honourable gentleman fro St. Berbes North? Well, thi• year he has got stud .. ntitis and last year he was a mother lover. Thia year he is a student love~. That is all that he can talk about this year , the change in the student allowance plan at Memorial University,and some of his admirers are in the gallery here today as well they might be. There has been a lot of talk about that. Now, Mr. Speaker, the new system we have in this province will be the same as they have in four others and will still permit the students to go to the university except that he will have to borrow more.

It ia not a step that we want to take if we could avoid it. Anybody who looks at our financial position I think will see why we ha•~~ to do it. The worst may lie ahead. Where i• the answer to this problem? If student loans are not the answer, if student loans are not the thing-, if 1t should be student allowances, if ~'.emorial becomes an elitist university because we change it now so that you have to borrow more and it is not allowance, if that is so, then presumably nearly all universities in Canada today are elitist because they nearly all depend upon a loan programme.

The Government of Canada, this great Liberal Government that the honourable gentleman from Bell Island talks about so much,has the means to change this. The Canada Student Loan Progr11J11me is 6U2~

April 26, i973 Tape 1307 IB-10 a programme of the Government of Canada. They could easily change it.with their financial resources.· They could easily change that to a Canada Student Grant Programme but their philosoohy is and their policy is that it should be a loan programme not a grant progra11111e. I am quite willing to join with the opposition and everyone else on the Island in petitioning the Government of Canada~who have the financial resources,to institute a Student Grant PrograDDlle across Canada to replace the Canada Student Loan Progranune.

All that I can say about this province is that with all of the requirements and commitments that we have,we cannot afford that. We cannot afford more than they can afford in Nova Scotia or New Brunswick or Prince Edward Island or Alberta and the other three or four provinces that do a bit better than us;all have loan programmes in addition to grants. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER;. Why not cancel the airplane? Then you t.-111 !::c able to look after the students. ~. CROSBIE: That is the kind of cheap political remark that the honourable gentleman keeps getting on with.

The honourable gentleman's government bought a Twin Otter at a cost of $450,000. That is now beyond its service. It ii being sold and the government is buying a Beach Craft aircraft to replace it for exactly the same purpose. If it ;,rere justified to have the Twin Otter aircraft, it is certainly justified to have a B~ach Craft Aircraft. There is no difference at all in the matter. The honourable gentleman opposite did not jet around in a Twin Otter, he jetted around in 'f,fr. Doyle's jet. Remember? Remember those Helicon days when you travelled from Labrador down here to St. John's on' the Doyle jet. MR.

NEARY: Mr. Speaker, on a point of personal privilege. Sir, I would like for the minister to withdraw that statement. I have never in my life been aboard of a plane whether it is a jet or a Turboprop 6U2~

April 26, 1973 Tape 1307 IB-11 operated by Mr. Doyle, ~. DOODY: We accept that, Sir, It shows his status in the previous category • . MR. CROSBIE: Actually it was chartered by Mr. Doyle, MR, NEARY: Mr. Speaker, a point of personal privilege. The plane that I went to Labrador in was not chartered by Mr. Doyle. ~. CROSBIE: Who was it chartered by? MR. NEARY: I do not know. The minister made the statement HR. CROSBIE: By Canadian Javelin Limited? By Javelin Forests? By Jayelin Paper? By one of the Javelin companies? AN HONOURABLE GENTLE~.AN: No, MR, CROSBIE: By Lundrigans? AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Yea.

MR, CROSBIE: I knew that we would find out, Anyway it is quite irrelevant because I know that when the gentleman was in the Cabir.et tb:it it was very necessary for him to trnvcl by jet.Every moment of his time was precious for the people of this province and why should he take three hours to fly to C.ooae when he could go witl-, 1..undrigana in an hour and a-half and eave an hour and a-half. Thr- people of this province thank him for that, MR. NEARY: Yea because I settled the Wildcat Strike while I was there, MR. CROSBIE: You settled the wild cat. I do not know if you aettled the Wildcat Strike. Now, Mr.

Speaker, the motheri allowance;that I mentioned briefly. Now, there is going to be a new family allowance progrmmne 1n Canada of twenty dollars per month for each child in the family. The great money bags are up in Ottawa, the revenue, It does not matter whether there are Liberals there or Progressive Conservatives or New Labrador Party, they will all be lashing it out. It is not because they are Liberals. It is because they were scared to death in the last election of October and they are up there now trembling &c25

April 26, 1973 Tape 1307 and they are scattering the funds all over the co,mtry hoping to be re-elected. So, the great Trudeau Government is now bringing in a new family allowance scheme which will more than amply replace the poor, pitiful p·ittance that the last administration instituted here for the mothers' allowance programme. I hope, Mr.

Speaker, when the new federal programme comes in,paid for by all the citizens of Canada,from a government that has the elasticity and revenue to do it, that has the new income tax IB-12 that has given them a tremendous return, that the members opposite will stop this silly carping we have heard now month after month about the mother{allowance. The honourable gentleman had : some criticism about our approach to .Ottawa. We no longer go up to Ottawa on our hands and knees, Mr. Speaker. We go up by plane and we get off, we walk in and we see them.

We do not crawl on our bellies like apparently they did when they were in the government. We do not jet up with Lundrigan either. Of course, his jet is gone anyway. We go up to Ottawa man-fashion. We are going to get no less because we act in a manly fashion with them. We are. going to get no less because we put forth our point of view as to what we think should be done, We do not have to be obsequious to Ottawa. All we need to do is to make sense to Ottawa and as a result of our making sense to Ottawa,with other provinces,there was a change in .the tax equalization formula announced in February, in Mr.

Turner's speech,and as a result we are getting this year,in tax equalization,an increase of $24,000,000, The honourable gentleman has it memorized that $24,000,000. We did not get it by going up and groveling in front of them. We just got it through the ] o~ic and force of our arguments, which they finally conceded. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: The biggest surprise the honourable minister every got in his life. 6026

April 26, 1973 TApe 1307 IB-13 ~. CROSBIE: The biggest surprise that I ever got in my life, Mr. Speaker, was to bear the honourable _ gentleman had been re-elected. I could not understand any group of electors imposing him upon the country again. Since then,as I say, just within the last eight days I have changed my mind about that. I am sort of glad that he is there. He brings occasionally a bit of common sense to the onposition. He has a heart. He is perceptive. AN HONOURABLE ME!-'BER: No brains though. HR.

CROSBIE: Well, I do not want to touch on that because his last leader said that about him, said that he did not have any brain but he had a magnificent heart, As I say, Mr, Speaker, my heart is not really in it this afte~oon because I have come to the conclusion that it is useless to attempt to talk sense in this Bouse.

What you need to do is have some little piece of foolishness you are going to use, aomething that will attract the attention of the press when you get up, just some silly little statement or some series of silly little statements which you hoi,e will be re~eated by the press or on the radio or on the television. You do that and that is just as good as making a speech for two or three hours that makes tremendous sense and that seriously discusses the problems.of this province because if you do that,you will get no coverage. You will ge