role="main" class="main-container container js-quickedit-main-content" id="main-content">

June 10, 1998

36th Parliament, 2nd Session

< Previous sitting day

Next sitting day >

Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

L024a - Wed 10 Jun 1998 / Mer 10 Jun 1998 1

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

PORTUGUESE COMMUNITY

PLACE PROVIDENCE

PORTUGUESE COMMUNITY

HOSPITAL RESTRUCTURING

PORTUGUESE COMMUNITY

SENIORS' MONTH

ELECTORAL REFORM

PORTUGUESE COMMUNITY

RITSON PUBLIC SCHOOL

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON REGULATIONS AND PRIVATE BILLS

STANDING COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

CONDOMINIUM ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 SUR LES CONDOMINIUMS

ACCESS TO ADOPTION INFORMATION STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 MODIFIANT DES LOIS EN CE QUI CONCERNE L'ACCÈS AUX RENSEIGNEMENTS EN MATIÈRE D'ADOPTION

MUNICIPAL AMENDMENT ACT (HAMILTON-WENTWORTH RESTRUCTURING), 1998 / LOI DE 1998 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR LES MUNICIPALITÉS (RESTRUCTURATION DE HAMILTON-WENTWORTH)

VISITOR

ORAL QUESTIONS

ELECTORAL REFORM

LOBBYIST REGISTRATION

ELECTORAL REFORM

LOBBYIST REGISTRATION

VISITOR

GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS

CHILD CARE

GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS

CHILDREN'S MENTAL HEALTH

AIR QUALITY

PROPERTY TAXATION

NORTHERN TREATMENT CENTRE

PETITIONS

ELECTORAL REFORM

PROTECTION FOR HEALTH CARE WORKERS

HOSPITAL RESTRUCTURING

LEGAL AID

EDUCATION FUNDING

ABORTION

ADOPTION

SCHOOL CUSTODIAN

ROAD SAFETY

ADULT EDUCATION

BEAR HUNTING

HIGHWAY MAINTENANCE

PROTECTION FOR HEALTH CARE WORKERS

GOVERNMENT CUTS

OPPOSITION DAY

GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

PORTUGUESE COMMUNITY

Mr Tony Ruprecht (Parkdale): On behalf of our Liberal caucus, I rise for the purpose of recognizing an important event that dates back 418 years and has been celebrated as Portugal National Day since 1880.

The celebration of the national day of Portugal is special and unique in the pages of history. Unlike some dates that commemorate an important political event, such as the Declaration of Independence, or a war or some such thing, on this historic occasion we ask the people of Ontario to join us and all Canadians of Portuguese heritage in the remembrance of a great, world-renowned poet and writer, Luis de Camões. Although he passed away more than 400 years ago, Camões left a living legacy of meaningful poetry of immortal beauty that has not withered with age.

We're all cognizant, of course, and appreciative of the tremendous contributions that our Portuguese friends have made to the development and growth of our province and country, both in economic and cultural fields. Yet, as important as economic contributions are, the attention of Canada and Portugal today, especially of Portuguese children, is focused not on the prosperity and wealth that opportunities in Canada bring but on our democratic system of government, which allows the people in our society of Ontario to celebrate a national hero of their forefathers as a right.

To our Portuguese friends who are today in the gallery - Consul General Montenegro; the president of the alliance, Joe Eustacio; and a member of Parliament from Portugal, Lourdes Lara - I simply say, viva Portugal.

PLACE PROVIDENCE

Mr Len Wood (Cochrane North): Today I want to talk about community leadership and responsibility in bringing together the community leaders who were involved in the negotiations over Place Providence, a senior citizens' place in the town of Hearst.

A new agreement was put in place for Place Providence. The municipalities of Val Coté, Mattice and Hearst each agreed to contribute $15,000 annually to the overall operation budget of $155,000, to be administered by Notre-Dame Hospital. This is because of the cutbacks by this government that have been taking place.

It is indeed very good news for the communities involved, for the actual residents and their families.

I want to congratulate Mayor Jean-Marie Blier of Hearst, Paul Zorzetto of Mattice-Val Coté, and Notre-Dame Hospital head Raymond Lafleur for all the initiative that has been shown.

I would hope that the provincial government would now play a leadership role as well and assist with grants and subsidies to the senior citizens who are going to be using that small home, which is only 12 beds and requires four nurses to maintain the place.

PORTUGUESE COMMUNITY

Mr Carl DeFaria (Mississauga East): It is my privilege to rise today to speak on the occasion of celebration of Portuguese heritage day.

I'd like to remind the House that I rise not only as the member for Mississauga East but also as a member who speaks today on behalf of over half a million people of Portuguese heritage living in Ontario, people who have made their homes and live in the ridings represented by each and every member of this House.

Statistics Canada ranks Portuguese as the fourth most predominant non-official language spoken in Canada, third in Toronto and third overall in Ontario.

This year the community is celebrating another successful year. This week's celebrations will include a parade through the streets of Toronto, Toronto's third-largest parade, and also a festival in Bellwoods park.

We had a reception today where we had a guest singer, Liz Rodrigues. I'd like to put on Hansard that the members of this House really enjoyed her performance here at Queen's Park.

HOSPITAL RESTRUCTURING

Mr John C. Cleary (Cornwall): On May 13 the government's Health Services Restructuring Commission recommended that Cornwall's acute care facilities be consolidated at the Cornwall General Hospital, while the Hotel Dieu serve as a complex continuing care facility.

This recommendation ran contrary to the district health committee's proposal, and has sparked overwhelming concern from thousands of my constituents and the residents of SD&G. Area residents are saying that the recommendations will not result in real savings for our community or improve health care. Instead, they fear they will be forced to raise $5 million for hospital renovations and expansions.

Earlier this week I presented a petition signed by almost 12,000 Cornwall area residents to the Legislative Assembly detailing concerns over the commission's recommendations, and at least two other petitions are being circulated and have been signed by approximately 40,000 residents.

I would also like to present to the House some of the hundreds of letters I received from residents who are concerned about the ruling and the effect it will have on patient care in our area.

Cornwall and area residents feel that health care, health services and even hospital volunteerism are being jeopardized. They ask the Minister of Health to listen to their concerns and not simply pass the buck on this very important issue.

PORTUGUESE COMMUNITY

Mr Tony Silipo (Dovercourt): I'm proud and happy to rise today to join with colleagues in recognizing Portugal National Day and to recognize the incredible festivities that have been going on here in Ontario and, I know, in Portugal, and in fact everywhere Portuguese or people of Portuguese descent live and work, because they have much to celebrate. We join in celebrating with them.

It is particularly noteworthy that Portugal National Day also celebrates the day of Camões, a Portuguese poet who himself was an immigrant, a traveller who in many works, but particularly in The Lusiads, dealt with the voyage to India of Portuguese explorer Vasco de Gama.

It's particularly appropriate that a people who have as their attributes hard work, a sense of family, a sense of commitment and a sense of doing better for themselves and their families also see fit to commemorate this important day by praising the poet Camões.

I want to pay tribute and say how privileged I am to count among many of my constituents a large Portuguese Canadian community, people who have come to this country, have literally helped to build this country and now are placed in all places of the community, whether it's in the professions, in the trades, in all spheres, and are contributing in a very real way to building the future that we want for ourselves and our children. Congratulations to them.

SENIORS' MONTH

Mr Doug Galt (Northumberland): I rise in the House today to indicate the importance of seniors' issues and to promote the upcoming seniors' seminar to be held in Trenton.

The month of June is Seniors' Month, and to bring greater awareness of the issues that affect seniors I'm holding a seniors' seminar this Friday with my good friend the member for Quinte, Doug Rollins. Seniors from Northumberland and Quinte will have an opportunity to listen to speakers from the community who will be talking about telemarketing fraud, fire and road safety, long-term care and related health issues, the Internet, and the proper use of drugs and medication. Seniors in my riding have told me they want to be informed about the issues that affect them on a daily basis.

I'd like to recognize Mr and Mrs Jim Greavette, from Grafton, who will be watching today's proceedings from the members' gallery. Mr and Mrs Greavette have shown a great interest in seniors' issues in Northumberland and I'm pleased they could join us in the Legislature today.

Through our health care investments, our long-term-care announcements and our fair taxation policies, this government has demonstrated its commitment to seniors in this province.

I encourage all members in this House to do their part to celebrate and recognize the contributions that seniors have made in our communities.

ELECTORAL REFORM

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): The people of Ontario should know that if Governor Mike Harris gets his way, the Conservative Party will be able to buy the next election.

The rules governing Ontario elections will be rigged to heavily favour the party and the candidates with the most money, and these new election rules will be bulldozed through the Ontario Legislature by the huge Conservative majority on orders from Mike Harris.

Massive increases in election campaign spending, dramatic increases in the amount of money that corporations and individuals may contribute to political parties and candidates, the exemption of major campaign activities from any spending limits at all, and the elimination of the financial watchdog, the Commission on Election Finances, will ensure that the deck is stacked in favour of the party and the candidates who tailor their policies, legislation and regulations to the wishes of the very wealthy and the most powerful elements in our province.

The influence of big-money interests will be paramount in Mike Harris's Ontario, just as it is in American politics where examples of election contributions buying influence and purchasing power are so numerous.

Mike Harris Conservatives are not satisfied to abuse their power by using taxpayers' dollars to send blatantly partisan propaganda pamphlets to all Ontario households, as they have in recent weeks; now they want to ensure that big money will be king in the Ontario election process.

All who value fairness in the democratic system should demand that Governor Mike Harris withdraw this outrageous piece of legislation in the interests of our fragile democracy.

PORTUGUESE COMMUNITY

Mr Rosario Marchese (Fort York): Like my colleague from Dovercourt, I rise today to recognize June 10 as Portugal National Day -

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Order. It's members' statements now. It's for members. I want to be able to hear them.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Members for Etobicoke-Humber and St Catharines, come to order. Thank you. Member for Fort York.

Mr Marchese: Today we celebrate the richness and beauty of Portuguese history, tradition and culture. On this day the 500,000 members of the Ontario Portuguese-Canadian community join together to commemorate the vibrancy and diversity of one of the largest linguistic communities of Ontario.

This year the Portuguese community celebrated the 50th anniversary of the Portuguese-Brazilian studies program at the University of Toronto. To commemorate this momentous occasion, the Portuguese community honoured one of Portugal's past presidents. Hailed by many as a liberator, Mario Soares was conferred an honorary degree by the University of Toronto.

In recognizing the value of Portuguese language education, I also stand to recognize the contribution of the outstanding leadership taken by many Portuguese-Canadian youth. This year also saw the birth of two new youth groups in the Portuguese community. Vox Nova is a group aimed at giving voice to and creating an identity for Luso-Canadian youth. The Luso Cantuna is a Portuguese folklore youth music group. It had its inception on March 14 of this year, at the conclusion of the University of Toronto's Portuguese Students Association cultural week and is the first of its kind in Canada.

The efforts of youth are truly exemplary and worthy of acclaim, for it is the youth who show us that when working together, we're able to cultivate and nourish the vibrancy of Portuguese-Canadian culture for generations to come. In celebration of Portugal National Day, we hear the voices of youth who enliven the future of their community by preserving their past.

RITSON PUBLIC SCHOOL

Mr Jerry J. Ouellette (Oshawa): I proudly rise today to congratulate Oshawa's Ritson Public School on its 75th birthday. Tomorrow the school will officially celebrate its 75th year with faculty, staff, students, parents, alumni and members of the community.

In Oshawa's earliest days, the people of Oshawa realized the importance of education in the life of our community. Oshawa has experienced consistent growth since the time it was first settled. In 1923, with the coming to Oshawa of General Motors of Canada, our community faced a growing need for educational facilities.

Opening its doors in 1923 to 350 students, the new school was named after one of Oshawa's earliest educators and prominent citizens, John Ritson. John Ritson was the first teacher of a local area school built in 1812 and a Sunday school superintendent. Now, 75 years after it opened, John Ritson's dedication and commitment to the education of Oshawa's youth continue today in the school of his namesake.

Many great students, including my mother and her sisters, have benefited from the education that they received at Ritson Public School. The school's faculty, staff and parents continue to offer high-quality educational opportunities and innovative programs for our students.

I would like to congratulate the principal, David Black, and vice-principal, Frank Cowan, as well as the faculty and staff, for continuing the tradition of commitment to quality education. I call upon this assembly to congratulate the Ritson Public School on its 75th anniversary and invite all alumni to contact and attend tomorrow's celebration.

As well, on this day, Portuguese heritage day, I would like to thank all my Portuguese friends from Oshawa and I would like to say, "Obrigado."

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON REGULATIONS AND PRIVATE BILLS

Mr Dave Boushy (Sarnia): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on regulations and private bills and move its adoption.

Clerk at the Table (Ms Lisa Freedman): Your committee begs to report the following bill without amendment:

Bill Pr15,

An Act respecting the Corporation of the City of Kitchener.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Shall the report be received and adopted?

All those in favour, please say "aye."

All those opposed, please say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

I declare the report adopted.

STANDING COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): I beg leave to inform the House that today the Clerk received the third report of the standing committee on government agencies.

Pursuant to standing order 105(g)9, the report is deemed to be adopted by the House.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

CONDOMINIUM ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 SUR LES CONDOMINIUMS

Mr Tsubouchi moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 38,

An Act to revise the law relating to condominium corporations, to amend the Ontario New Home Warranties Plan Act and to make other related amendments / Projet de loi 38, Loi révisant des lois en ce qui concerne les associations condominiales, modifiant la

Loi sur le régime de garanties des logements neufs de l'Ontario et apportant d'autres modifications connexes.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour, please say "aye."

All those opposed, please say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1348 to 1353.

The Speaker: All those in favour, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Agostino, Dominic

Barrett, Toby

Bartolucci, Rick

Bassett, Isabel

Beaubien, Marcel

Boushy, Dave

Bradley, James J.

Brown, Jim

Christopherson, David

Chudleigh, Ted

Churley, Marilyn

Cleary, John C.

Clement, Tony

Cullen, Alex

Cunningham, Dianne

Curling, Alvin

Danford, Harry

DeFaria, Carl

Doyle, Ed

Ecker, Janet

Fisher, Barbara

Flaherty, Jim

Ford, Douglas B.

Fox, Gary

Froese, Tom

Galt, Doug

Gerretsen, John

Grandmaître, Bernard

Gravelle, Michael

Grimmett, Bill

Guzzo, Garry J.

Hardeman, Ernie

Harnick, Charles

Hastings, John

Hodgson, Chris

Jackson, Cameron

Johnson, Bert

Johnson, David

Jordan, W. Leo

Kells, Morley

Klees, Frank

Kormos, Peter

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Lankin, Frances

Leach, Al

Leadston, Gary L.

Lessard, Wayne

Marchese, Rosario

Marland, Margaret

Martel, Shelley

Martin, Tony

Martiniuk, Gerry

McLeod, Lyn

Morin, Gilles E.

Munro, Julia

Murdoch, Bill

Newman, Dan

O'Toole, John

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Parker, John L.

Patten, Richard

Phillips, Gerry

Preston, Peter

Pupatello, Sandra

Ramsay, David

Rollins, E.J. Douglas

Runciman, Robert W.

Ruprecht, Tony

Sampson, Rob

Saunderson, William

Shea, Derwyn

Sheehan, Frank

Silipo, Tony

Skarica, Toni

Smith, Bruce

Snobelen, John

Spina, Joseph

Sterling, Norman W.

Tilson, David

Tsubouchi, David H.

Turnbull, David

Villeneuve, Noble

Wettlaufer, Wayne

Wildman, Bud

Wilson, Jim

Witmer, Elizabeth

Wood, Bob

Wood, Len

Clerk of the House (Mr Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 89; the nays are 0.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried. Mr Tsubouchi?

Hon David H. Tsubouchi (Minister of Consumer and Commercial Relations): Very briefly, the bill was really conceived through a lot of consultation with consumers, condominium owners, the condominium management group and the development industry. I would like to take this opportunity to thank Minister Norm Sterling, who started the process, also Minister Jim Flaherty, who was in charge of the consultations, and last, my parliamentary assistant, Lillian Ross, who assisted in the process as well.

ACCESS TO ADOPTION INFORMATION STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 1998 / LOI DE 1998 MODIFIANT DES LOIS EN CE QUI CONCERNE L'ACCÈS AUX RENSEIGNEMENTS EN MATIÈRE D'ADOPTION

Mr Cullen moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 39,

An Act to amend the Vital Statistics Act and the Child and Family Services Act to provide Access to Adoption Information / Projet de loi 39, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les statistiques de l'état civil et la

Loi sur les services à l'enfance et à la famille de façon à fournir l'accès aux renseignements en matière d'adoption.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr Alex Cullen (Ottawa West): This act would allow access to birth registration and adoption records for adult adoptees, birth parents, adoptive parents and other relatives, while implementing a no-contact notice option to protect the privacy of those who wish it. It provides optional counselling, offers access to other information and acknowledges open adoptions. I would like at this time to thank the representatives from the Adoption Reform Coalition of Ontario who are in the gallery today and the member for Sault Ste Marie, whose bill provided me with the model for this piece of legislation.

MUNICIPAL AMENDMENT ACT (HAMILTON-WENTWORTH RESTRUCTURING), 1998 / LOI DE 1998 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR LES MUNICIPALITÉS (RESTRUCTURATION DE HAMILTON-WENTWORTH)

Mr Agostino moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 40,

An Act to amend the Municipal Act to permit a restructuring of the Regional Municipality of Hamilton-Wentworth / Projet de loi 40, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les municipalités pour permettre une restructuration de la municipalité régionale de Hamilton-Wentworth.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour, please say "aye."

All those opposed, please say "nay."

In my opinion, the nays have it.

Call in the members. It will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1400 to 1405.

The Speaker: All those in favour please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Agostino, Dominic

Barrett, Toby

Bartolucci, Rick

Bassett, Isabel

Beaubien, Marcel

Bisson, Gilles

Boushy, Dave

Brown, Jim

Carroll, Jack

Castrilli, Annamarie

Christopherson, David

Chudleigh, Ted

Cleary, John C.

Clement, Tony

Cullen, Alex

Cunningham, Dianne

Curling, Alvin

Danford, Harry

DeFaria, Carl

Ecker, Janet

Fisher, Barbara

Flaherty, Jim

Ford, Douglas B.

Froese, Tom

Galt, Doug

Grandmaître, Bernard

Gravelle, Michael

Grimmett, Bill

Guzzo, Garry J.

Hardeman, Ernie

Harnick, Charles

Hodgson, Chris

Jackson, Cameron

Johnson, Bert

Johnson, David

Jordan, W. Leo

Kennedy, Gerard

Klees, Frank

Kormos, Peter

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Leach, Al

Leadston, Gary L.

Lessard, Wayne

Marland, Margaret

Martel, Shelley

Martiniuk, Gerry

McLeod, Lyn

Morin, Gilles E.

Munro, Julia

Newman, Dan

O'Toole, John

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Parker, John L.

Patten, Richard

Pouliot, Gilles

Ramsay, David

Rollins, E.J. Douglas

Runciman, Robert W.

Sampson, Rob

Saunderson, William

Shea, Derwyn

Sheehan, Frank

Silipo, Tony

Smith, Bruce

Snobelen, John

Spina, Joseph

Sterling, Norman W.

Tilson, David

Tsubouchi, David H.

Turnbull, David

Villeneuve, Noble

Wettlaufer, Wayne

Wildman, Bud

Wilson, Jim

Witmer, Elizabeth

Wood, Bob

Wood, Len

The Speaker: All those opposed please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Doyle, Ed

Skarica, Toni

Clerk of the House (Mr Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 78; the nays are 2.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

Mr Dominic Agostino (Hamilton East): Briefly, what this bill would do is give the opportunity for the minister to appoint a mediator for a three-month period to sit down with the local councils to try to find a reasonable, accepted solution that the councils can buy into in regard to restructuring. Failing that, this bill would then give the option for the appointment of an arbitrator who would come in and recommend a solution to the restructuring situation in Hamilton-Wentworth.

This is imperative for the survival of the region, it is imperative for our tax base, it is imperative for the government to get on with it to ensure that we have restructuring in place to help the taxpayers of Hamilton-Wentworth.

VISITOR

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): I would like to inform the members that we have in the Speaker's gallery today Mr Konstantine Dorakovski, acting consul general of the Republic of Macedonia. Welcome.

ORAL QUESTIONS

ELECTORAL REFORM

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Chair of Management Board. Yesterday, once again your government displayed its lack of respect for democracy and the institution in which we enjoy the privilege of rendering service. Yesterday you moved to give fund-raisers and backroom pollsters still more influence on the outcome of an election. Your unilateral, one-sided changes to the Election Finances Act threaten to Americanize our political system. You may not understand this, but democracy is a fragile thing. It might be something that you take for granted on that side of the House, but it's not something we take for granted on this side.

Minister, do you understand that for democracy to work, there has to be a level playing field for all the players? Don't you understand that basic tenet of democracy?

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet, Minister of Northern Development and Mines): The Leader of the Opposition is correct. These changes do create a level playing field; all parties will be subject to the same rules. I realize it's a difficult issue. This legislative chamber has been grappling with this issue since 1991. There was the ad hoc commission set up. There was the selection of the Commission on Election Finances, which made recommendations and had representatives from each of the parties, whose chair was Jack Murray. They deliberated on this for a number of years. We also had the chief electoral officer make recommendations.

I tried to get a consensus with your party as recently as a week ago, and your party refused to negotiate other than if you got your way and our caucus wouldn't have any input. We would have liked to have an agreement. What we've done we think is fair, and we've taken your recommendation on the spending limits.

Mr McGuinty: You should have at least paid attention to the recommendations of the election finances commission. For one thing, they did not recommend their very own demise. Second, when it came to spending limits for parties, their recommendation was no change. I quote: "Spending limits for parties - unchanged." That was their recommendation, and what did you do on that front? You decided, unilaterally and arbitrarily, to increase those limits by 50%. That's $1.35 million extra. On top of that $1.35 million, you've excluded all the spending on polling, research and the leader's tour and travel.

There are no limits whatsoever of any kind on those areas. Last year alone, your party, the Progressive Conservative Party, spent over $609,000 on polling and $352,000 on travel, and that's not even in an election year.

My question is this: Given that the election finances commission recommended that there be no change, and understanding that this kind of change is one that benefits the Mike Harris government only, how can you defend this change?

Hon Mr Hodgson: The facts are that there was a need to update and modernize the election finances and the Election Finances Act itself. That has been recognized in this House. It was written to the Speaker by Jack Murray, the chair of the commission, and it said, "If you're going to make these changes, do it in lots of time so that people who are involved in elections have plenty of time to prepare, all parties know the rules and there is a level playing field."

In regard to your question about the election commission, what it recommended was $1.40 per elector per riding. You went out and had a photo op saying that was a seat sale, that that was totally unacceptable. You disagreed with your own party's representatives on the commission. You said: "I don't know. They didn't consult with me." Even though your party put forward two, and the NDP had two - you had five voting members on a seven-member committee.

But you did say publicly: "Look, you've reduced the number of seats to the federal limit. What's wrong with the federal spending limits?" That's what we've done.

Mr McGuinty: My advice to the people of the province is to be very wary when it comes to the government spin on this issue. Here are some of the facts:

You are increasing the spending limits for the central party from $2.7 million to over $4 million. That's $800,000 higher than the federal spending limit. Just for a minute, let's take a look at the minister's own riding, Victoria-Haliburton. Under the current rules, a candidate in the new riding would be allowed to spend $53,000. Under the federal rules, the limit would be $67,000. Under your legislation, the limit will be $75,000, and that is $75,000 for a campaign that is nine days shorter than the federal campaign. You say you have adopted the federal rules; the fact of the matter is you haven't.

Why don't you just admit that these changes have been made, not in the public interest but to benefit the Mike Harris government?

Hon Mr Hodgson: We have a party that goes out and publicly says that it wants the federal spending. That works out to 96 cents a voter. That's what we've done. We've taken your recommendations, as you wouldn't sit and do the hard work of negotiating with it. You wanted to play politics with this issue.

The guidelines that presently exist exempt tour and polling. Those are the present rules. That was put into the report that came from the commission as an appendix.

I think we all want to have fair rules. We, as a government, have to be responsible like governments in British Columbia, Saskatchewan and other provinces that have been unable in recent years to get all-party consensus on contentious issues. But I want to reiterate that we're modernizing the rules. There is a savings here of up to $15 million to the taxpayers of this province. This has been studied for years. Your party had representatives on that and the NDP had representatives on it. We're trying to do the proper thing.

LOBBYIST REGISTRATION

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): I have a question for the same minister. You want to change the election rules to put more emphasis on money and on outside paid professionals. You have done more to bring these paid professionals - private consultants, private pollsters, private lobbyists - into the government than any other government in the history of this province. We're seeing more and more problems in your government with issues like conflict of interest, and we're about to see more of them.

I have a very simple question for you. Can you tell me right now how many firms are paying Leslie Noble and Bill King to lobby your government? Can you tell me who those firms are and which ministers they are presently lobbying?

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet, Minister of Northern Development and Mines): I can take the specifics under advisement, but I can tell you that this government has changed the accounting rules to make it so it's more accountable to taxpayers. We've brought in conflict-of-interest guidelines that far surpass anything that has existed in Ontario in the last 10 years and we'll put our record up against when your party was in government any time.

Mr McGuinty: I should be able to get that kind of information instantly and you promised to us, you made a specific promise, that you would do that.

Let's take a look at the budget speech delivered back on May 7, 1996. I'm just going to quote a part of it. It says, "We will also establish procedures to require the registration of all persons and firms who lobby the government" - two years ago.

April 23, 1997, here's a release: "`Lobbying is part of the process of government,' Mr Johnson said. `A public record of lobbyists will ensure that this process is kept open and transparent.'" Johnson was right then and he's right now. Where is the legislation? We should be able to have access to that kind of information instantly.

Hon Mr Hodgson: Neither the Liberals nor the NDP had any -

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Order. Minister.

Hon Mr Hodgson: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. As my predecessor promised, we will have legislation. We intend to do that at the earliest opportunity. I might add that your party has had nothing. We recognize the need for it. I know this is a current topic at the federal level these days and the federal Liberals are running into those problems as well. What we have promised is a committed openness and integrity in the relationship with the public and we intend to bring forward legislation to fulfil that commitment.

I want to point out to the member, though, that the new Election Act prohibits donations from charities. I know that was in regard to the Patti Starr affair, and what we've done is make that permanent in the guidelines. That was the recommendation of the commission, to prohibit that kind of contribution. Now that will be enshrined in legislation.

Mr McGuinty: It's important for people to understand the pattern that is emerging here. We've got a government here that is bent on changing the election rules to allow the greater influence of money in the outcome of an election. We have had conflict-of-interest issues raised in this House time after time, and we can't get access to the information we need because we don't have on the books of this province a law which compels lobbyists, people who are paid to influence government, to register themselves, to tell us whom they're working for and to tell us whom they're lobbying.

This government once again has promised explicitly to bring into effect a law that requires lobbyists, people who are paid to influence them, to register themselves so we know who they are, whom they're working for and whom they're lobbying.

My question to you is, when are you going to bring this in? You've broken that promise. We expect you to deliver on it. Why couldn't you introduce that law today?

Hon Mr Hodgson: I agree with the Leader of the Opposition. We need that type of legislation to protect the public's and lobbyists' interests and I know his party will be fully supportive, as they are of other measures that help improve accountability and openness and savings to the taxpayers.

He mentions the election reform act. His own members recommended this. I have a letter from one of his party caucus that outlines the Liberal position. It said they wanted the federal spending. The commission recommended $1.40, the federal spending average is 96 cents, and that's what we've taken. It's your position and now you're criticizing that.

ELECTORAL REFORM

Mr Tony Silipo (Dovercourt): I have a question to the Chair of Management Board. My question is about you and your big-money friends buying up this province. Your gutting of the Election Finances Act serves you and it serves your big-money friends, but it certainly doesn't serve the public. Voters aren't asking for this. They aren't sending in petitions saying they need to hear more political ads from the Conservative Party. They aren't saying that powerful interest groups should have even more influence because they're the only ones who can afford to fund big campaigns.

Can you name one person, one member of the general public, who asked you to double the amount that political parties can spend on campaigns?

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet, Minister of Northern Development and Mines): The commission recommended $1.40 per riding and 40 cents for the party. That's $1.80 in total. Our recommendations come in at $1.56, so it's less than what your two appointees plus the chair, who was a past-president of the NPD, recommended.

Mr Silipo: It's pretty obvious to us and I think to the general public that if you soak the airwaves with your political ads, you gain a tremendous advantage. That's what this bill is all about. We know that and you know that.

I have here a CD that has a song in it which I think would be quite appropriate as your election theme song. It's called "Money," and as the song goes, it says: "Grab the cash with both hands and make a stash." That's what this is about. That's what this bill is about and that's what your actions are about, because in Mike Harris's Ontario, money talks. Minister, tell me this: Who else does jacking up the spending limits help, other than you and your big-money friends in Ontario?

Hon Mr Hodgson: Your party appointed two representatives on the election finances commission and the chair of that seven-man voting commission was Jack Murray. Are you saying he is not a member of the public? They recommended $1.40 per riding and 40 cents for the party. The Liberals said they would support the federal, which is 96 cents on average, and the riding is 60 cents. I think if you add those two totals up, we come in far below what Jack Murray and the election commission recommended.

Mr Silipo: Minister, you know better than anybody else in this House that your bill more than doubles the amount that campaigns can spend each day of the election. It more than doubles it. That's because of your change to the central campaign spending limit and your shortening of the campaign period. You've got to look at those issues too, and not keep going back to the commission.

If you want to keep going back to the commission you should also tell us here very clearly what you know and what we all know, that neither of those two things I've just mentioned were in fact voted on by the commission. If you want to rely on the commission, rely also on what they didn't recommend and you're putting in this legislation, because those things, rather than being an invention of the commission, we know are an invention of the whiz kids in the Premier's office. They know that only the Conservatives can play in that kind of financial league.

I just want to ask you this in conclusion. Under the existing rules, you can already spend $2.6 million. So tell us, Minister, why can't you get by in an election campaign with $2.6 million? Why do you need to change the rules to more than double that spending limit?

Hon Mr Hodgson: I think the NDP recognizes - they recognized this when they were in government - that the Election Finances Act and the Election Act hadn't been changed for 12 years. They've recognized that there is the report sent down from the election finances commission, which had representatives of your party and all parties, and the chief election officer.

The election finances commission's report had an appendix which outlined the exclusions and the included portions in campaign spending. Since 1996, the rules are that the polling and tour are excluded. We are putting that into legislation so that everyone knows the rules and knows what is expected and that it's an even playing field for everyone concerned.

I am not sure why he talks about the shorter writ. Yesterday, your leader insisted that was the end of democracy. I just want to remind the member that in Great Britain where our traditions come from, the minimum period for a writ is 16 days and the maximum is 25 days. We are proposing that the minimum be 28 days like other provinces in Canada.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): New question, third party, the member for Dovercourt.

Mr Silipo: It's sad enough to see what the government is doing in the election finances area, but it's unfortunately -

The Speaker: I'm on a new question now, so I need to know who it's going to.

Mr Silipo: To Management Board, Speaker, sorry.

The Speaker: Thank you.

LOBBYIST REGISTRATION

Mr Tony Silipo (Dovercourt): What we see here is that there is a pattern emerging and the pattern is that all your actions are about your big-money friends buying up Ontario. It's becoming very clear, Minister. We've seen it in the casino scandal and the election finances changes we've just been talking about. Even when the government puts in place a supposedly independent process, what really counts, it seems, is which Conservative insider you know or how much money you pay to whom.

Here's what Dave Johnson, the then Chair of Management Board, said on April 23, 1997, when your government was already under attack for conflict of interest on the casino deals: "We are moving to become the first Canadian province to enact a lobbyist registration law. If the legislation is passed as planned in the fall" - "in the fall" he said then - "this public registry will include a list of all people and firms who are paid to lobby the government. This will allow taxpayers to have open access to information about companies and individuals seeking to influence government decision-making."

If only that were true, Minister. If only you had kept your promise, the stench of payola that surrounds the government's casino dealings would be right out in the open. Instead, what we have is this continuing tide. When are you -

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Thank you. Minister.

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet, Minister of Northern Development and Mines): The member of the third party brings up the allegations that were made in the Toronto Star and also by the opposition about the involvement of Michael French.

I've requested the Ontario Casino Corp and its lawyers to review the process undertaken in the selection process, specifically to determine whether the strict conflict-of-interest rules that were mandatory were complied with. I've now received that report and I know that I've delivered copies to the leader of your party. Their counsel advises that the process was indeed properly followed and that a conflict of interest did not exist. I quote, "We find that Mr French and Coopers and Lybrand complied with the terms of their contract and with the requirements respecting the conflict of interest."

In addition, cabinet has recommended Ron Barbaro to fill the vacancy of chair of the Ontario Casino Corp, and yesterday the board of the Ontario Casino Corp appointed Ron Barbaro to the position of CEO. I've issued the report, as I said -

The Speaker: Thank you. Supplementary.

Mr Silipo: I'm glad for that information, even though that wasn't the question I put to the minister. Let me move to another area, another arena, which will be the next arena for free-wheeling backroom rooms nourished by high-paid lobbyists and campaign cash, and that's Ontario Hydro.

The legislation you introduced yesterday doesn't use the word "privatization," but it opens the door for private interests to make hundreds of millions of dollars and put it all in the hands of various committees and regulation. But look at what happens in the real world.

Just recently, when the so-called independent Market Design Committee decided to dilute Ontario Hydro's power over electricity transmission, Ontario Hydro hired - who? - lobbyist Leslie Noble, an architect of the Common Sense Revolution, to get a different decision out of the Premier's office. Listen to this, Minister: The chair of the committee, who happens to be the dean of the Toronto law school, a well-respected individual, wrote a letter at that time saying that hiring Leslie Noble as a lobbyist undermined the integrity of the process.

Minister, if you won't keep your promise to shine the light of public accountability on lobbyists, tell us what steps you will take to stop Leslie Noble and other lobbyists from funnelling billions into -

The Speaker: Thank you. Minister.

Hon Mr Hodgson: I know the Minister of Energy would be happy to answer this.

Hon Jim Wilson (Minister of Energy, Science and Technology): The honourable member is basing his research on a newspaper

article that wasn't factual. As I've said to the press many times, Ontario Hydro doesn't have to hire lobbyists. I meet with Mr Farlinger and Mr Osborne, as has been the tradition of all parties - or at least you guys should have met with Hydro when you were in office, and so should the Liberals or they wouldn't be $32 billion in debt today -

Interjections.

The Speaker: Minister.

Hon Mr Wilson: I see I haven't lost my touch and I still have a profound effect on this House.

As I pointed out to the reporter who was accusing Ontario Hydro of having lobbyists affect decisions of the Market Design Committee, two things: One is that the legislation tabled yesterday followed exactly the recommendations of the Market Design Committee, and in fact Ontario Hydro probably isn't all that happy. But this government wants the jobs, we want the environmental protections, we want the consumer choice and the lower prices that competition will bring. That's the agenda of the government. That's what that legislation reflected yesterday.

Mr Silipo: If only the legislation was about that, but we know that the government's agenda is quite different from that. The connection between laws to bring lobbyists out into the sunshine and your big-money election scheme grows clearer by the day.

Think about this: Leslie Noble is not just selling her political connections, she's not only a cheap author of the 1995 Conservative platform, she's busy helping put together your platform for the next campaign. The message then is pretty clear to big-money campaign contributors about where to go -

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. Member for Dovercourt.

Mr Silipo: I'm glad we're hitting a couple of nerves over there, because the message is pretty clear to big-money campaign contributors about where to go to buy influence in this province.

You know, Minister, what Ontarians think about privatizing Ontario Hydro. They think it's a terrible idea. But you still want to funnel millions of dollars to your friends, so you have legislation that will provide the cover for whatever private dealings you can cook up in the back room.

Over at Ontario Hydro we see a contract for US$250,000 go to your friend Tom Long to recruit a new president with experience in privatization. Is that just a coincidence?

This is the same Hydro that pays Leslie Noble $84,000 to produce "positive outcomes from government." She knows nothing about the power business but she knows how to get positive outcomes on casinos. Who knows where else she's selling her influence. That's why we need legislation.

To whichever minister dares to answer, when is the legislation on conflict of interest going to finally get to this House?

Hon Mr Wilson: Again, I remind the honourable member that the legislation yesterday was fully supported by environmental groups in the province, by the Power Workers Union. We had excellent support from the unionized employees of Hydro and their representatives. At the end of the day, it's been the Power Workers Union that is encouraging the government to move towards private-public partnerships.

This government is trying to increase the value of Ontario Hydro, a company that was badly devalued over the last 10 years, a company that was neglected by government. The best way to do that is the world experience with respect to competition, as it brings lower prices, greater choices for consumers, and it will bring us the environmental protections that people in this province have looked for for some time.

With respect to lobbyists, again the facts are in error. I meet with Mr Farlinger and Mr Osborne every week at a set time, as did my predecessor Norm Sterling, as did my predecessor Brenda Elliott.

The Speaker: Answer, please.

Hon Mr Wilson: Hydro has never been on a better course to improve its state in the economy and indeed to return -

The Speaker: Thank you. New question.

On a point of order, the member for St Catharines.

VISITOR

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): Mr Speaker, I would be remiss if I did not introduce to you the Reform Party candidate in the last federal election in St Catharines, Rob Hesp, who is in the gallery -

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Thank you. Order. New question, official opposition.

GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Chair of Management Board. Minister, I want to follow up on this report, a copy of which I received moments before question period began today. The finding in here from the lawyers who are acting for the Ontario Casino Corp was that there was no conflict at the time that the competition was finally decided.

The issue here, you will recall, was whether or not Michael French, who was involved in the running of the competition, was in a position of conflict of interest given that he had had a contractual relationship with the winner that eventually won this competition.

Just so we're very clear, during the course of the time the competition was being designed, during the course of the time the bids were being prepared and submitted, this report tells us that Michael French had a contractual relationship both with the Ontario Casino Corp and with the eventual winner. The law firm said: "Yes, but he wasn't there when the bids were opened. There was no conflict at the time the bids were opened."

I say there is a conflict of interest because he had that relationship at the time that the bids were being prepared and the competition was being -

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Thank you. Minister.

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet, Minister of Northern Development and Mines): As I mentioned earlier in response to the allegations that were made in the Toronto Star and again by opposition parties about the involvement of Michael French, who worked for Coopers and Lybrand, I requested the Ontario Casino Corp lawyers to review the process undertaken in the selection process specifically to determine whether the strict conflict-of-interest rules that are mandatory were complied with.

I shared this report with the Leader of the Opposition, as I promised I would do, when I received it from the OCC and their legal counsel.

If he looks in the report and he reads down, it says:

"As you are aware, ensuring the integrity of the selection process was of paramount concern from the earliest stages of the process. In particular, the process was structured so as to ensure that any potential conflicts of interest would be identified and dealt with in the appropriate manner."

In the report, counsel advises that the process was indeed properly followed and that a conflict of interest did not exist. I quote, "We find that Mr French from Coopers and Lybrand complied with the terms of their contract and with the requirements" -

The Speaker: Thank you. Supplementary.

Mr McGuinty: Look, I understand what their conclusion was. I'm not talking about their conclusion. I'm talking about the facts for a minute.

Again, at the time the competition was being designed and at the time the bids were being prepared and at the time the bids were submitted, it turns out that this guy - and this is admitted in your report - had a contractual relationship with the Ontario Casino Corp and with the eventual winner of the bid. They take a very legalistic approach and they say, "Well, since he had no involvement on the day the bids were opened, there's no position of conflict here, there's no conflict of interest."

The fact is that at the time the competition was designed and during the time when the bids were being prepared and submitted, this guy had a contractual relationship both with the Ontario Casino Corp and with the eventual winner. I call that a conflict of interest. What do you call it?

Hon Mr Hodgson: As a representative of the people of Ontario through the government, I have to go with the facts, and the facts are this: You raised an allegation about Coopers and Lybrand, and I asked the Ontario Casino Corp to work with their lawyers to give a report on the facts. They have come back, and I have shared that report with you, as I said I would.

In addition to that, I think you're aware that we've appointed Ron Barbaro to be the chair and also CEO of the Ontario Casino Corp. He has an outstanding reputation and experience both in the business community and in community involvement through years of good involvement. I've asked him to take a look at this as well. You know the process: Before a contract is signed with the number-one-ranked proponent, if there is to be a contract signed, the OCC has to give that recommendation to me. I've asked him to review it as well.

The Speaker: New question, third party.

Mr Peter Kormos (Welland-Thorold): The Chair of Management Board wants to talk about the facts. The facts are that your casino scandal goes far beyond conflict of interest; it goes right to the heart of old-fashioned Tory pork-barrelling. You know full well, or you ought to know, that the Davies Ward report, which you should take little comfort in, doesn't consider at all the significant role of the Latner family, by which you and your party have benefited to the tune of 90 grand over the course of three years, 1995, 1996 and 1997.

Notwithstanding that their bid came number three on tourism, and that's what this was supposed to be all about, your political friends ended up number one, having abandoned tourism in Niagara. Why is there no consideration of the role of the Latners and their connections to your Conservative Party in this consideration by Davies Ward?

Hon Mr Hodgson: Here we go again. You're slagging a family that has done business in this province for generations. They did a lot of business when your party was in government. You've had the answer given to you on a number of occasions. But I would like to point out that the bid that was accepted was the number one proposal. It will be good if it's concluded. No deal has been concluded yet. Ron Barbaro will take a look at that. He has an extensive background in business. I can assure you that I'll wait for their advice, but the tourism component will be beneficial to Niagara Falls.

All the people, the mayor right through to the BIA, are looking forward to increased tourism and economic development. I think Mr Barbaro is the person to give guidance and leadership to this process. He will, through his board, give a recommendation to me and the government on whether we should sign a contract with the number-one-ranked proponent or not.

Mr Kormos: Your Ontario isn't just open for business, it's for sale, lock, stock and barrel, to the biggest political contributor to the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario. You know that there's no consideration whatsoever of the clear political connections involved in the successful bid by Falls Management, notwithstanding that they were rated number three when it came to tourism. Why are you selling out tourism in favour of the big black hole of yet another casino that you, your government and the Latners are going to be profiting from oh so much?

Hon Mr Hodgson: Again, the member of the third party is clearly wrong in all his allegations and all his mudslinging. But I can tell you that I've received a report from the OCC through their lawyers, and I've shared that with the House. We've also appointed Ron Barbaro to take a look at this and to guide the OCC to get ready for the next century.

CHILD CARE

Mrs Barbara Fisher (Bruce): My question today is for the Minister without Portfolio for children, the Honourable Margaret Marland. Ontario is once again experiencing a booming economy. We all know that. Our economic policies, tax cuts and sound fiscal management have created an environment of growth and prosperity for all Ontarians.

With this change in outlook, we have also experienced tremendous growth in job creation in the province. In fact, we know that since the throne speech in 1995, 339,000 net new jobs in the private sector have been created in Ontario. I'm proud of that record, but it leads me to the question I have for you today.

As a mother, I know it can be very difficult to balance the job of raising a family with the demands of a career. With hundreds of thousands more parents working, how can we help meet their child care needs? With such strong economic growth, surely corporations might want to get involved in supporting their employees in raising their families.

Hon Margaret Marland (Minister without Portfolio [children's issues]): I'd like to thank the member for Bruce for the question. I too am very proud of our economic record. Job creation is not only important for our economy, but especially important to families that are able to work and be productive and self-sufficient members of our society. We know that parents need a variety of child care options and we encourage companies to get involved and help support their employees in this endeavour.

In the recent budget, this government introduced workplace child care tax incentives to support businesses that create additional licensed child care facilities or improve existing facilities for children of working parents. We believe that this incentive program will help create a supportive environment for working families in Ontario. Good news.

Mrs Fisher: All parents need to know that their children are safe and well cared for before they can be productive in the workplace. Surely it would be beneficial to companies to help their staff both at work and in their child care needs. I would like to know more about how an employer can help in this regard. Minister, as you know, the opposition parties are only concerned about criticizing large business help. I understand that small business can participate in this. Will this program service those, other than just large corporations?

Hon Mrs Marland: I'm really happy to respond to this, especially for the member for Algoma, because I know he's really concerned. Our proposed workplace child care tax incentive is designed to work with both large and small companies, both incorporated and unincorporated businesses. This incentive will support companies that create or expand existing onsite child care facilities and businesses that make a contribution to fund the creation or renovation of child care facilities in their communities.

This means that business can claim a deduction of up to 30% of the qualifying expenditures, and companies of all sizes will have the opportunity to help their staff meet the needs of their families.

As more and more families continue to benefit from job creation in this great province of Ontario, we want to ensure that supports are available to help parents raise their families and be successful in our great province.

GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): I have a question for the Chair of Management Board. We now have a copy of a report prepared by lawyers for the Ontario Casino Corp. I know what their conclusion is. I want to know what your standards are now and I want to know what you think about this.

Once again it turns out that at the time the competition was being designed, the competition for people who are going to bid on a casino contract worth hundreds of millions of dollars, the guy who was designing the competition was at the same time involved in a contractual relationship, a financial relationship with the eventual winner. This guy was both involved in setting the rules and involved with one of the people who were bidding pursuant to those rules. All I want to know from you is, is that acceptable to you?

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet, Minister of Northern Development and Mines): I provided to you the report you asked for around the allegations around Michael French that were outlined in the Toronto Star and by opposition members. What this report does is answer those very questions. That's why I shared it with you, so you wouldn't stand up and accuse us of covering anything up or hiding anything. We've tried to be as open and as transparent on this process as we can possibly be. That's why, when the allegation was raised, I said it was a new allegation and I would check it out.

I've asked the OCC and their lawyers to prepared a report and now I've shared that report with you. They deal with that very question you're asking.

Mr McGuinty: You're trying to take far too much comfort in this written report. It's now in your hands. The issue is not their standards; the issue is, what are your standards? The guy who wrote the rules for the competition was involved with the winner. It's as straightforward as that.

What I want to know, what the people of this province want to know, is not what the lawyers think; they want to know what you as the minister responsible think. Do you think it's acceptable for the guy who wrote the rules to be involved in a contractual relationship with the winner? Is that okay according to your standards?

Hon Mr Hodgson: I'll read from the report to the Leader of the Opposition: "None of these prior engagements related to the Niagara Falls proposals, and all were concluded prior to the opening of bids on April 30, 1997. During the period of the selection process itself, neither Mr French nor any Coopers and Lybrand advisers involved with the assessment of the proposals provided services to any of the participants.

"In

summary, we find that Mr French and Coopers and Lybrand complied with the terms of their contract and with the requirements respecting the conflict of interest."

CHILDREN'S MENTAL HEALTH

Ms Frances Lankin (Beaches-Woodbine): My question is to the Minister of Community and Social Services. Minister, several weeks ago I raised a question in the House about the need for mandated children's mental health services, but today I want to speak to you about a specific situation.

In the Kingston area, children's mental health needs are going without service. A strike at Pathways for Children and Youth is in its seventh week. In those seven weeks, management at Pathways has come to the bargaining table once, a month ago when they were called there by the mediator. There, striking members of OPSEU Local 460 made several concessions on wages and on other issues. Because management did not respond, the mediator suspended talks. All this time, hundreds of children and families have gone without the necessary mental health services.

Have you communicated with the board of directors at Pathways for Children and Youth to ask them to resolve this dispute and make these services available to children and families once more?

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Community and Social Services): I am sure the member would agree that it would be inappropriate for the ministry to interfere in the collective bargaining process in this case. Our role has been to monitor the care of individuals who would need the services. If there have been specific instances where children are at risk because of this dispute between the management and union, I would be very pleased to get those details and to see what we can do to make sure those children are not put at risk.

Ms Lankin: Of course children are at risk. They've been seven weeks without the services. I would agree with your statement, if it weren't for the fact that there isn't an independent board of directors operating there as an independent employer. Through the restructuring process, you appointed the board of directors. They are not elected by the community, they are not elected by the client families. Their accountability is to you, Minister, and you need to take some responsibility here.

During that restructuring process, families were assured that the new board would be more accountable, more accessible, that there would be an elected board. That was over two years ago. The transition has continued and the board has never been elected.

Restructuring children's services has been very high on your agenda, but you've got to realize that the Pathways situation is bound to be repeated across the province unless you send a strong message now that employers must enter into real and meaningful negotiations, reasonable negotiations, with their employees to ensure that the needed services continue.

People in Kingston feel that the board is not accountable to the families, nor the community, only accountable to you because you appointed them. Will you speak to them and resolve this situation so kids and families get their services?

Hon Mrs Ecker: The member is quite right that they're having some difficulties in this community, which the staff in the ministry have been attempting to resolve with this organization. I repeat that I don't think it's appropriate for us to interfere in a union-management dispute in this case. However, the staff of the ministry will continue to work with this organization to ensure that the members of the board are providing the appropriate care and also relating to the community in a way that is acceptable to the ministry.

AIR QUALITY

Mr John O'Toole (Durham East): My question is for the Minister of the Environment. Yesterday in the House the Honourable Jim Wilson, Minister of Energy, Science and Technology, introduced an important bill with respect to electricity competition in Ontario for the year 2000. I understand there was an important environmental component to the bill.

I know, from my experience on the select committee on nuclear affairs, about concerns raised, not only in Pickering and Darlington in Durham region, surrounding environmental protection as promised in the white paper. Can you tell all members what is in this bill to protect Ontarians from dirty power sources in the US?

Hon Norman W. Sterling (Minister of the Environment, Government House Leader): Members of the Legislature should understand that the electricity restructuring bill will be a very important legislative tool for this Minister of the Environment and future ministers of the environment. No other jurisdiction that I'm aware of in North America will be empowered to deal with electricity generation in the same manner. This legislation enables the province to set caps on smog and gas emissions by sector across this province. That is not presently available to the minister or this government.

It also allows the ministry to set emissions performance standards for all generators who sell in Ontario. That would include not only generators within Ontario but generators selling from outside to Ontario. It also requires disclosure with regard -

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Thank you. Supplementary.

Mr O'Toole: All Ontarians thank you for that breathtaking answer. I know many environmentalists from my constituency will be pleased to hear that, but I want assurance from you that this government and you, Minister, will provide strong environmental leadership and protection as competition is introduced into Ontario's electrical market. Can you assure the people of Ontario today?

Hon Mr Sterling: As I said before, I believe this legislation, the commitment by this government in this bill, is probably the most significant commitment towards the improvement of quality of air that this province has ever seen. This bill, as well as including what I said before, will ensure that Ontario Hydro's voluntary commitments, including those for greenhouse emissions, will be lived with. It also requires that an environmental assessment is necessary for those in Ontario who would want to generate electricity in the future, to put them on a level playing field with Ontario Hydro if they should have those in the future.

I mentioned as well that disclosure will be necessary by generators to the consumer so that the consumer can pick electricity choices which are greener than others. In other words, they will have that information in front of them before they make their choice. I believe this is a tremendous piece of legislation. I hope that the members of the Legislature, when we have hearings, will take advantage -

The Speaker: Thank you. New question.

PROPERTY TAXATION

Mr Gerry Phillips (Scarborough-Agincourt): My question is to the Minister of Municipal Affairs. We're getting many, many calls from mayors and municipal officials about when in the world this government is going to finally get the property tax bill passed. It's costing municipalities over $1 million a day in extra costs, interest costs to borrow money, because you can't get the tax bill passed.

It was last Wednesday when the committee completed the bill, ready for passing. We now are a week later. It's cost another $7 million of tax money for municipalities to cover the costs that they don't have because they can't get their tax bills out.

My question to you is this: Why in the world did it take you seven days to bring the bill from committee to the House and why in the world did you not pass this bill last Thursday and save the taxpayers $7 million?

Hon Al Leach (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): I'm advised by the House leader that the time was required to get the amendments printed and the bill printed and back into the House. That's what took the time. We're as anxious an anyone to get this bill out into the public.

We've also advised the municipalities that they will not suffer any hardship as a result of this, that we've taken actions to ensure that any costs they incur as a result of the rolls going out to the public will be taken care of by this government. We're going to take actions with respect to the funds that are made available to the municipalities. We'll advance those moneys to make sure that any interest costs that they incur as a result of the delay in the assessment rolls will be addressed.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Supplementary.

Mr John Gerretsen (Kingston and The Islands): Why are you attacking municipalities and municipal taxpayers? You've had four bills now to deal with the same issue and you still haven't got it right. Bill 16 you invoked closure on, and then after we fought for one day of amendments etc and debate, you finally introduced nine government amendments that you didn't say you needed the day before.

Let's just read what the clerks and treasurers are saying about this bill. They say, "The changes made to the bill will not have any positive impact on municipal operations nor will they provide municipalities with relief from flawed legislation."

Let's read another sentence: "Bill 16 risks administrative chaos and has revenue implications that could jeopardize the financial stability of many municipalities."

We are the implementers of municipal legislation. Why don't you listen to these people and talk to them and get it right? Four times you've had it wrong. You're costing the municipalities and the municipal taxpayers money. Why are you constantly attacking the municipal taxpayers?

Hon Mr Leach: I find it absolutely amazing the position of that member across the floor. First they ask that the bill be sent to committee for further debate. They requested that. They asked that it go to committee. So what did we do? We sent it to committee so that the stakeholders could have further input. They then complain that we're delaying the bill. This is incredible. First they ask that it go to committee and then they say that the process has been delayed because it's been there.

With respect to the clerks and treasurers, we've had 17 amendments. Ten of those amendments were brought forward by the clerks and treasurers themselves, so we have taken into consideration their concerns and they were addressed in the amendments. As a matter of fact, I'm going to be speaking to the clerks and treasurers on Monday, where I'm sure I'll have an opportunity to address more of their concerns.

NORTHERN TREATMENT CENTRE

Mr Tony Martin (Sault Ste Marie): My question is for the Solicitor General and Minister of Correctional Services, if he's around. I know his stuff is still at his desk.

Hon Jim Flaherty (Minister of Labour, Solicitor General and Minister of Correctional Services): I'm right here.

Mr Martin: Minister, are you making plans with the federal Liberal government to close down the Northern Treatment Centre located in Sault Ste Marie?

Hon Mr Flaherty: I thank the honourable member for Sault Ste Marie for his question with respect to the Northern Treatment Centre in Sault Ste Marie. I'm not aware of any plans with respect to that but I'll take it under advisement and report back to the member if he can give me particulars of the suggestion that he's making.

Mr Martin: We have it on good information that you're planning with the federal Liberals to terminate the agreement that keeps the Northern Treatment Centre open. As a matter of fact, we're told that this Friday will be the last day that anybody is transferred to that particular facility.

Do you have any idea what this will mean for the community of Sault Ste Marie? What does it mean for the correctional services system as you close down one of the best treatment centres in the country?

Hon Mr Flaherty: Certainly our goals with respect to treatment centres have been to continue the good work that has been done, particularly with young offenders, and the degree of cooperation we have had in that regard from the federal government has been little or none, including the reduction of funding, despite the success that was seen in projects like Project Turnaround where young offenders have the opportunity to have structure in their lives, where they have the opportunity to increase their literacy skills, where they have educational opportunities during the day.

These are much appreciated by many of those who have had the opportunity to participate in that type of innovative project in Ontario. The difficulty, of course, is we have not had the cooperation of the federal government in that important initiative with respect to young offenders in Ontario.

PETITIONS

ELECTORAL REFORM

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): At the time of petitions, I have one addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. It reads as follows:

"Whereas the Conservative government of Mike Harris is trying to increase the limit on the amount of money that corporations and individuals are allowed to contribute to political parties and individual candidates in Ontario; and

"Whereas the Harris government plans to introduce legislation to permit political parties and candidates to spend far more money during election campaigns; and

"Whereas the Conservative government of Mike Harris would like to remove certain campaign expenditures such as polling and campaign headquarters equipment from the spending limits placed on political parties and candidates; and

"Whereas the Conservative government is proposing to abolish the Ontario election finances commission, the watchdog agency policing political contributions and expenditures; and

"Whereas the Harris government wishes to shorten the length of provincial election campaigns and to permit expensive media advertising throughout the entire campaign period, thereby favouring the political parties and candidates with the most money; and

"Whereas the changes to the Election Finances Act proposed by Mike Harris will give undue and unacceptable influence to the wealthiest and most powerful interests in our province and will result in the problems that have plagued the American political system, where money plays a central role;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, call upon Mike Harris to abandon his planned legislation which will permit substantial increases in the amount of money that can be contributed by corporations and individuals to political parties and candidates and the amount of money the political parties and candidates can spend in provincial elections."

I affix my signature, as I am in complete agreement with this petition.

The Acting Speaker (Mr Gilles E. Morin): We will just wait for a moment. There are too many conversations going on. I can't hear a word.

PROTECTION FOR HEALTH CARE WORKERS

Mrs Marion Boyd (London Centre): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas nurses in Ontario often experience coercion to participate in practices which directly contravene their deeply held ethical standards;

"Whereas pharmacists in Ontario are often pressured to dispense and/or sell chemicals and/or devices contrary to their moral or religious beliefs;

"Whereas public health workers in Ontario are expected to assist in providing controversial services and promoting controversial materials against their consciences;

"Whereas physicians in Ontario often experience pressure to give referrals for medications, treatments or procedures which they believe to be gravely immoral;

"Whereas competent health care workers and students in various health care disciplines in Ontario have been denied training, employment, continued employment and advancement in their intended fields and suffered other forms of unjust discrimination because of the dictates of their consciences; and

"Whereas the health care workers experiencing such unjust discrimination have at present no practical and accessible legal means to protect themselves;

"We, the undersigned, urge the government of Ontario to enact legislation explicitly recognizing the freedom of conscience of health care workers, prohibiting coercion of and unjust discrimination against health care workers because of their refusal to participate in matters contrary to the dictates of their consciences and establishing penalties for such coercion and unjust discrimination."

I'm presenting this on behalf of 14 citizens of the London area at their request.

HOSPITAL RESTRUCTURING

Mr W. Leo Jordan (Lanark-Renfrew): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Health Services Restructuring Commission recommends two sites, two boards and two administrations for Cornwall and area hospitals; and

"Whereas the HSRC has recognized the dual cultural nature of our area but not the fact that it is also two thirds Catholic in population; and

"Whereas the HSRC recommends the closing of hospital lab services in Cornwall resulting in reduced patient services; and

"Whereas the HSRC recommends building upon a site that has no room for growth beyond the year 2003 and will be unable to meet the community's present and future needs;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to instruct the Health Services Restructuring Commission to consolidate all hospital services at the Hotel Dieu Hospital site, which offers 28 acres of property for present and future development, with one board with representation from the total population served, and one administration."

I present that on behalf of Minister Villeneuve, and I affix my signature with over 5,000 other signatures.

LEGAL AID

Mr John C. Cleary (Cornwall): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Paul Bernardo is a convicted murderer and is currently serving a life sentence for the murders of Kristen French and Leslie Mahaffy;

"Whereas there is concrete evidence in the form of videotape that Mr Bernardo, along with his wife, Karla Homolka, held their victims captive prior to murdering them;

"Whereas despite this concrete evidence the Ontario Court of Appeal has ruled that Mr Bernardo may secure a publicly funded lawyer to file an appeal of his murder convictions;

"Whereas Ontario taxpayers will therefore pay for Mr Bernardo's lawyer and court appeal;

"Therefore,

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly to encourage the federal government to amend the Criminal Code such that Ontario taxpayers are not required to pay legal appeals initiated by convicted felons."

That's signed by 65 people of my community, and I have also signed the petition.

EDUCATION FUNDING

Mr Bud Wildman (Algoma): I have a petition signed by approximately 65 residents of the Kitchener-Waterloo area which petitions the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to hold a province-wide referendum on the question of whether Bill 160 should be withdrawn by the government, and I've signed it.

ABORTION

Mr Bob Wood (London South): I have a petition signed by 273 people:

"Whereas the Ontario health system is overburdened and unnecessary spending must be cut; and

"Whereas pregnancy is not a disease, injury or illness and abortions are not therapeutic procedures; and

"Whereas the vast majority of abortions are done for reasons of convenience or finance; and

"Whereas the province has the exclusive authority to determine what services will be insured; and

"Whereas the Canada Health Act does not require funding for elective procedures; and

"Whereas there is mounting evidence that abortion is in fact hazardous to women's health; and

"Whereas Ontario taxpayers funded over 45,000 abortions in 1993 at an estimated cost of $25 million;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to cease from providing any taxpayers' dollars for the performance of abortions."

ADOPTION

Mr Alex Cullen (Ottawa West): I have a petition to the Legislature of Ontario:

"Whereas the Adoption Reform Coalition of Ontario brings together various organizations to recommend reform of Ontario adoption law based on honesty, openness and integrity;

"Whereas existing adoption secrecy legislation is outdated and unjust;

"Whereas Canada has ratified standards of civil and human rights in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the UN Declaration of Human Rights and the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, and these rights are denied to persons affected by secrecy provisions in adoption laws and the Child and Family Services Act and other acts in Ontario;

"Whereas 20% of persons in Ontario are directly or indirectly affected by restricted rights to personal information available to other citizens;

"Whereas the adopted person's right to his or her birth identity is rooted in a basic and fundamental human need;

"Whereas most birth parents did not ask for lifelong confidentiality, it was imposed upon them involuntarily;

"Whereas research shows that not knowing basic personal information has proven harmful to adopted persons, birth parents, adoptive parents and other birth relatives; and

"Whereas research in other countries has shown that unqualified access to information at adoption satisfies the overwhelming majority of the parties involved;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislature of Ontario to enact provisions of the Child and Family Services Act and other acts to:

"Permit unrestricted access to full identifying birth information to adopted persons and adult children of adopted persons and unrestricted access to adopted persons' amended birth certificate to birth parents, birth grandparents, siblings and other birth relatives when the adopted person reaches 18;

"Permit unrestricted access to identifying information to adoptive parents of minor children, emancipated minor adoptees, individuals with legal guardianship of an adopted person in special circumstances;

"Allow adopted persons and birth relatives to file notice stating their wish for no contact;

"Replace mandatory reunion counselling with optional counselling;

"Permit access to agency and court files when original statistical information is insufficient for identification and contact with birth relatives; and

"Recognize open adoptions in its legislation."

The Acting Speaker (Mr Gilles E. Morin): I bring to your attention that petitions sometimes are like a speech. It's too long. You should try to summarize your petition as short as possible so that other members also have a chance to deliver their petitions. I ask for your cooperation.

SCHOOL CUSTODIAN

Mr Toby Barrett (Norfolk): I have a relatively short petition concerning the threat to fire a local janitor because he does not speak French.

"Whereas the local French community and staff at École Sainte-Marie in Simcoe have signed a separate petition in support of Mr Santiago Reyes indicating that they want him to continue to work as a custodian at their school;

"Whereas Mr Reyes has an excellent performance record and should not be discriminated against on the basis of language or in any other way;

"Whereas the undersigned join the local French community's request that any further attempts to involuntarily displace Mr Reyes from his custodial position at École Sainte-Marie in Simcoe be stopped immediately and want him to continue to work as a custodian in that location;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to guarantee to Mr Reyes his right to not be discriminated against on the basis of language."

I agree completely with this petition and hereby sign this petition.

ROAD SAFETY

Mr Bruce Crozier (Essex South): I have a petition sent to me by the Alliance of Seniors to Protect Canada's Social Programs, Mr Al Gorlick. It has a number of whereases, but I'll read the major ones. It's addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas there is a shortage of police officers and

whereas the provincial government has endorsed the use of a similar camera system to collect tolls on Highway 407; and

"Whereas mayors and concerned citizens across Ontario have been seeking permission to utilize red light cameras;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Ontario Legislature that the government of Ontario support the installation of red light cameras at high-collision intersections to monitor and prosecute motorists who run red lights."

In support of this, I add my signature.

ADULT EDUCATION

Mr Bud Wildman (Algoma): I have another petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. It reads:

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Legislative Assembly make moneys available to the Toronto Catholic District School Board in order to maintain Msgr Fraser College adult over-21 day school programs."

I've added my signature.

BEAR HUNTING

Mr Bill Murdoch (Grey-Owen Sound): I have a petition on bear hunting. I'll read the final

whereas.

"Animal rights activists have launched a campaign of misinformation and emotional rhetoric to ban bear hunting and end our hunting heritage in Ontario, ignoring the enormous impact this would have on the people of Ontario.

"We, the undersigned, petition the Parliament of Ontario as follows:

"That the Ontario government protect our hunting heritage and continue to support all current forms of black bear hunting."

HIGHWAY MAINTENANCE

Mr David Ramsay (Timiskaming): I have a petition here petitioning the Ontario government to repair Highway 11 north, between North Bay and Marten River. I will sign my signature to this.

PROTECTION FOR HEALTH CARE WORKERS

Mr John O'Toole (Durham East): I present this petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas nurses in Ontario often experience coercion to participate in practices which directly contravene their deeply held ethical standards;

"Whereas pharmacists in Ontario are often pressured to dispense and/or sell chemicals and/or devices contrary to their moral and religious beliefs; and

"Whereas public health workers in Ontario are expected to assist in providing controversial services and promoting controversial materials against their consciences; and

"Whereas physicians in Ontario often experience pressure to give referrals for medications, treatments and/or procedures which they believe to be gravely immoral; and

"Whereas competent health care workers and students in various health care disciplines in Ontario have been denied training, employment, continued employment and advancement in their intended fields and suffered other forms of unjust discrimination because of the dictates of their consciences; and

"Whereas the health care workers experiencing such unjust discrimination have at present no practical and accessible legal means to protect themselves."

This is to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. I'm pleased to sign my name to this petition.

GOVERNMENT CUTS

Mr John Gerretsen (Kingston and The Islands): I was given this petition on Monday, during the Day of Action in Kingston, attended by some 10,000 people. It's addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. It says:

"Whereas the cuts imposed on Ontario by Mike Harris and his cabinet target the poorest members of our province and will cause enormous harm to both the working poor and recipients of social assistance; and

"Whereas the cuts in the areas of housing, social services like counselling, community centres and drop-ins, health care, education and municipal funding do not save money in the long run and will lead to high social costs and wasted potential from citizens of Ontario; and

"Whereas abandoning the moral and social responsibility of government will serve to put enormous pressure on cash-strapped municipalities, increase local taxes and will destroy the social fabric in Ontario;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly to pressure the Premier and his cabinet to restore funding that has been cut to the citizens of Ontario and to protect the interests of all of its citizens, regardless of economic status."

I've affixed my signature to it.

The Acting Speaker (Mr Gilles E. Morin): I encourage those who have longer petitions to summarize them. Give a chance to everyone to bring in their petitions.

OPPOSITION DAY

GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS

Mr Peter Kormos (Welland-Thorold): I move that:

Whereas there have been serious questions raised about impropriety and potential conflict of interest in the process to select the builder and operator of the Niagara Falls permanent casino, and that these questions remain the subject of widespread concern in Ontario; and

Whereas there have been revelations that the winning consortium includes a number of people who have strong ties to the provincial Conservative Party, having worked as lobbyists around the establishment of privately owned and operated casinos, campaigners, fund-raisers and party officials; and

Whereas it has been revealed that Michael French was hired by a Toronto business group that was a partner in the winning bid for the Niagara casino, while at the same time he was retained by the Ontario government to run competitions to select private operators for the Niagara Falls casino and the 44 permanent charity casinos;

Be it therefore resolved that this House believes an independent inquiry under the Public Inquiries Act into the selection process for the construction and operation of the Niagara Falls Casino/Gateway project, including all government discussions and decisions leading up to the selection of Falls Management as the winning bid, will be essential for bringing out the full truth surrounding this case of apparent impropriety on the part of the government of this province.

Speaker, you know that today the government, after receiving it on June 8, released the Davies, Ward and Beck so-called investigation. The Chair of Management Board knows full well that he can take very little comfort in it, because all this report does is focus and raise even more questions about the gross corruption that has permeated the whole process involving the Niagara Falls casino, at great expense, I tell you, to the people of Niagara Falls and the Niagara region.

You know that the casino was tolerable to most people in Niagara only as an integral and essential part of a broader tourism promotional package, the Gateway project. You also know the Chair of Management Board has failed now for the third week to explain how tourism endeavours could have been sold out, were sold out, by the corrupt selection of Falls Management, which ranked third when it came to tourism, yet somehow ended up being the successful bidder for the casino construction and operation.

It's a complete abandonment, sellout and betrayal of the tourism future of Niagara, and it creates, as has been noted by so many, simply a huge black hole where visitors to Niagara will spend their money.

I should say, Speaker, that we will be dividing our time as was agreed upon earlier by our respective caucuses.

I'm telling you, there's big bucks involved. You're talking big, big money here. Let me tell you, this government was warned as it embarked on Niagara and on its slot/video lottery terminal exercise and its small-town casino project - 40-plus of them spread across Ontario, the bulk of them being in small-town Ontario, inevitably running seven days a week, 24 hours a day. We're talking big, big money - that this kind of big money inevitably attracts some less than savoury players in the business. That's axiomatic, that's given. You know that.

This government has been warned from day one that it has to be vigilant in protecting this exercise, its casino exercise, its video lottery terminal exercise, its slot machine exercise, its small-town gambling casino exercise, those so-called "charity casinos," to protect them from the corruption that's attracted to them, that's drawn to them like flies to -

Mr Bud Wildman (Algoma): To honey.

Mr Kormos: To honey, I'm told.

The deception began very early in the process. I recall, and you recall this full well, when a legislative committee was called upon to consider Bill 15, the slot machine legislation, the one that was going to put slot machines out there and will put slot machines out there, video lottery terminals - call them what you will - in every neighbourhood, in every community, in every single part of this province.

We on the committee prevailed upon the parliamentary assistant, we prevailed upon the government, to make available to that committee a report prepared by the criminal intelligence service of Ontario back in 1995, a report entitled Gambling in Ontario: Current Enforcement Concerns. This is as current a review of the status of gaming in this province, and the concerns that specialists in our Ontario Provincial Police department have, as is available. This government stonewalled, just like it's stonewalling over the issue of the corruption, the blatant, undeniable, straightforward corruption that's inherent.

Let's understand. Davies, Ward were the lawyers for the Ontario Casino Corp. It's a private law firm that relied as much on self-reporting as anything else to draw its very narrow and limited conclusions.

They weren't called upon to respond to the most interesting and paramount question of just how it is that Falls Management, ranking number three during the course of selection when it comes to tourism, but interestingly owned in part by the Latner family, who are also in there thick as thieves in the Gaming Venture Group, which has won the bid to run these so-called charity casinos - these are small-town casinos. We understand Windsor. We understand Niagara Falls.

We understand Niagara Falls as a tourist destination, and quite frankly, that's why the casino as part of the overall Gateway project was applauded by some.

We know that very much part and parcel of this government's agenda, one that they're committed to because they like the revenues, is to set up gambling halls in every part of small-town Ontario they can find. We're not talking here about tourist dollars or new money. We're talking about emptying the pockets of hardworking women and men, and desperate women and men, for whom Mike Harris' Ontario has been an economic disaster.

So it's oh so interesting, and the question that wasn't even addressed, never mind answered, in this feeble report that the Chair of Management Board responded to in the House today, is that the Latners, very much part and parcel of the third-ranked but successful Falls Management bid in Niagara Falls, are also big time into the casinos that are going to pop up in small-town Ontario to empty the pockets of residents of those towns. It has nothing to do with tourism whatsoever.

It's a very interesting question, because what's undeniable, and not refuted in any way, shape or form by the government, is that the Latners - the observation that we were able to make earlier, Mike Harris the Premier, he wants to talk about Ontario being open for business. Darned right, and it's up for sale to the highest contributor, to the biggest donors to the Conservative Party of Ontario.

We're convinced that what the successful bid by Falls Management is very much about is the fact that Falls Management is owned in part by the Latner family, the Latner family having been oh so generous with the Premier's Conservative Party. We're talking about over 90 grand in political contributions over the course of a mere three years. We're talking about 48 grand spread out over the years 1995-96, and bingo, in 1997 when Niagara Falls comes up for grabs, we're talking about a whopping $41,500 in 1997 alone.

These facts speak for themselves. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what's going on here. The people in Niagara Falls don't need to be sidetracked by this feeble Davies, Ward report, which ignores the reality of what amounts to nothing more than political payoffs and the crassest, Mulroney-style, Tory pork-barrelling this province has ever seen - nothing more and nothing less. It looks like pork-barrelling, it sounds like pork-barrelling, it smells like pork-barrelling, and by God, it's pork-barrelling.

It's the good, old fashioned Tory way of doing business, something Brian Mulroney excelled at when he sold off Canada and something these Tories are perfecting as they're selling off Ontario to their rich friends, their big-money friends, and yes, they're intimate political friends.

The connections to the Mulroney government are there and apparent too. The names are the same. These actors keep popping up through the course of Conservative history in this country, be it in Ottawa doing Mulroney's work, doing his business, or being here at Queen's Park doing the business of Harris and his rich, big-money friends.

Let's get back to the deception that occurred. We prevailed, we implored this government to produce this report from the Ontario Provincial Police. We were prepared to consider it in camera, if need be, if in fact the information was so sensitive that it couldn't be shared with the public, as if concerns about gambling in this province shouldn't be shared with the public. We felt it was critical to the consideration of this government's passion, its mania, for slot machines, that we have access to what the Ontario Provincial Police experts in gambling and organized crime had to say about it.

This government stood steadfast. Come hell or high water, it was going to make sure that elected legislators who were called upon to consider Bill 15 weren't going to have access to some very important information, and they weren't allowed access to that very important information.

We have discovered what is contained in that CISO, Criminal Intelligence Service Ontario, report. You see, one of the lines used by this government is that they have to legalize slot machines and run them to deal with or respond to the phenomenon of illegal gambling. They really ran that spin, they really ran that line.

They were challenged on it. They were told by members of the opposition, by members of the New Democratic Party, by people who appeared in front of the committee, that the real way to address illegal gambling is to give police officers the resources to enforce the legislation, the Criminal Code of Canada. This government said no and it really tried to market its slot machines, its VLTs, as being little more than a response to the phenomenon of illegal gambling, because nobody was going to dispute the fact that there was illegal gambling.

One of the reasons this government was very interested in our not having access to the Criminal Intelligence Service Ontario report by the Ontario Provincial Police was that the Ontario Provincial Police made this very distinct observation, and perhaps some of the Tory members who were denied this report as well should take heed, because the Ontario Provincial Police, experts in organized crime and illegal gambling, in this report take special notice of the fact that legalized gambling has never replaced illegal gambling, ever, never, nowhere in the history of legal gambling versus illegal gambling.

In fact, it goes further: "Legal gambling complements illegal gambling. Experts indicate that introduction of new legal games bring in new players, a significant number of which yield to the lure of illegal gambling activities to satisfy their interest."

It's exactly the sort of question we were raising with the government as it pursued Bill 15 which, with its numbers and with its backbenchers marching in lockstep, it eventually passed. The reality is that this raises even more concerns about who is really driving the agenda here. We know, once again, that because of the huge numbers involved in gaming, it attracts the least savoury of players.

Take a look at the numbers and you will see that in Niagara Falls alone, over the course of not a full year until December 1997, we're talking about $400 million in gross revenues by the Niagara Falls casino, $20 million more than the gross revenues of Windsor. We're talking about half a billion bucks, and that's before we even have a permanent casino location there.

No wonder people are prepared to engage in $90,000 payoffs, like the Latner family are, to obtain access to such a lucrative pool of revenues - 90 grand at the end of the day was a rather modest contribution by the Latners, in view of the great rewards they are going to reap by virtue of having been awarded - notwithstanding that their team came third when it comes to tourism -

Interjection.

Mr Kormos: I suggest you go file some income tax returns. Your time would be better spent, friend - the largess of Falls Management ranking third and at the end of the day coming up first; a remarkable bit of political response to a remarkable bit of political payola. The system is corrupt. It has been corrupted by this government, by its political friends and by its big-money partners in what amounts to a total sell-off of the future of tourism in Niagara region.

This government wants to take some comfort in a report that doesn't even begin to consider but merely asks more questions about the political reality of a corrupt government that will accept political contributions to corrupt a process that is far from clean and proper, and I tell you the participants in this process are well aware of it, the community of Niagara is well aware of it and the people in this province are well aware of it.

We've only been able to discover after the fact that this government's argument about legal gambling somehow displacing illegal gambling is totally false, totally fallacious. Again, one has to ask the question. This again leads to our concern about the refusal, the stonewalling by this government in its refusal to consider or to call a public inquiry under the Public Inquiries Act, because in its so-called investigation, by the same lawyers who represent the Ontario Casino Corp, the questions weren't asked. Therefore, the answers weren't given, nor were they even solicited. The questions weren't asked.

We know that gambling of the scale that Niagara Falls is going to entail is going to attract corruption, as it already has, is going to attract the mob, is going to attract organized crime.

When you consider and understand that legalized gambling, like casino gambling, and as importantly and perhaps more significantly like video slot machines, spread across small-town Ontario, doesn't displace illegal gambling, it complements it, it introduces people to it, you then have to ask the question as to whether the organized crime players in illegal gambling are the same people who are encouraging legalized gambling here in Ontario.

Are they some of the same actors who are endorsing and promoting this government's casino projects, its small-town gambling hall projects and slot machines across this province?

Our very own Ontario Provincial Police identify organized crime and name names in a report that was denied to legislators in this assembly because it was extremely relevant to the propriety of this government's introduction of slot machines across the province and so-called charity gaming halls. It names names and identifies organized crime players who have permeated and run illegal gambling and who stand to benefit very directly from this government's proliferation of gaming and gaming halls across this province.

Let's take a look at the government's most recent announcement to abandon so-called video lottery terminals. They stood up and said: "That's it. We've given up on VLTs. We're just going to use slot machines now." No wonder this government didn't want members of this Legislative Assembly or the public to have access to the CISO report, because let's understand what the Ontario Provincial Police anti-gambling squad says about standalone slot machines, the type that are going to be installed by this government.

The Ontario Provincial Police in this province point out that standalone slot machines, the type that this government proposes to install in communities across this province, are the most corruptible ones. They're the ones with the least integrity. They're the ones that organized crime loves and they're the ones that organized crime will be oh so quick to gets its hands into and, believe me, they will.

We'd better be concerned about what's happening in Niagara. I tell you it's imperative, all the more so today after receiving this so-called report by the very same lawyers who act for the Ontario Casino Corp, retained by this government to report back on corruption within this government. What a sham. What a disgusting coverup. What a disgusting denial of the reality behind the corruption inherent in the Niagara Falls casino bid.

The only way to address it, the only way to seek redress, is to have a full public inquiry under the Public Inquiries Act so that witnesses can be called, so that people are required to testify under oath and so that a truly independent party can draw some real conclusions because, I tell you, the only conclusion to be drawn now is that this government has corrupted the process, has become corrupt itself in the course of that process, has permitted itself to be bought off by its big-money friends, and has been bought off by its big-money friends.

It has its network of soldiers out there - strong Tory insiders - doing the business of this government and forging those links with the big donors, with the big contributors, with the big-money people who are prepared to pay cash into the coffers of the Conservative Party so that they can have legislation, so that they have casinos, so that they can have policies that serve their profit interests.

This process reeks, it stinks, it's corrupt. We've seen ministers like the Chair of the Management Board reading from the notes given to him, following marching orders - no two ways about it - not understanding that at the end of the day he's going to be hung out to dry. The Premier's not going to want to take the heat. The Premier may be so intimately involved in the corruption that we're talking about, in the corruption that's so apparent to so many, but it remains that at the end of the - he may be. I'm not suggesting that he is.

The Acting Speaker (Mr Gilles E. Morin): No, I don't accept this. Please withdraw.

Mr Kormos: Withdrawn.

The Acting Speaker: I simply do not accept that.

Mr Kormos: Withdrawn.

The Acting Speaker: Thank you.

Mr Kormos: The Premier may be in there like a dirty shirt, but the fact remains that he's not going to take the heat. He'll let his Chair of Management Board fall by the wayside in a New York minute before the Premier will take the heat on this one. Even though the Chair of Management Board - I'm convinced he's not in the back rooms. He's a dupe. He's being hung out to dry here. He's reading the script that's given to him. He's covering a whole lot of other people's backs. He's a mere mouthpiece for the players who are engaging in the backroom action and from whom the corruption just exudes.

Full public inquiry is the only solution to this matter. I would expect that Tory backbenchers would be as eager to participate in that sort of inquiry. One would hope they would be as eager to clear the air as any member of the opposition ever would be. One would hope that they'd want the public to see in a full - and the Chair of Management Board earlier today talked about transparency. Let me tell you, the only thing that's transparent here is that there have been political payoffs and that what should have been losing bidders, Falls Management, have become number one by virtue of the payoffs, as compared to being left in the status of number three.

Let's have a public inquiry. Let's hear from witnesses. Let's have an independent tribunal -

Hon David Turnbull (Minister without Portfolio): Go outside and say that, Peter.

The Acting Speaker: Minister. The member for York Mills.

Mr Kormos: What are you afraid of? What are you so afraid of that you don't want to see this go to an independent public inquiry? Or are more than a few of you going to be caught with your hands in the cookie jar? Because that's the only motivation for fear on the Conservatives' part that I can contemplate. Public inquiry is the only way to resolve the stench that accompanies this government and casinos and gambling.

The Acting Speaker: Further debate?

Mr Bill Grimmett (Muskoka-Georgian Bay): I should say at the outset that I'll be splitting my time with the member for Hamilton West and the member for Northumberland.

I'm pleased to have the opportunity to speak to the opposition day resolution put forward in the name of the member for Welland-Thorold and also to have the opportunity to set the record straight and provide some of the factual background to some of these allegations.

Some of the allegations that are being made are very serious allegations about individuals and they are not being made outside of this chamber; they are being made inside this chamber. I think all the members should recall that that's really the basis on which these charges are being made. They're being made in the chamber and not outside the chamber.

It also gives me the opportunity to speak about the importance of the Niagara Falls Casino/Gateway project, because one almost gets the impression from the speech of the member that the Niagara Falls Casino/Gateway project is not a popular one in that region.

Certainly from the opportunities that I've had to visit the region, and when I was the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Economic Development, Trade and Tourism responsible for tourism, I had the opportunity to meet on a number of occasions with people from the Niagara region and discuss the idea of a combined Gateway-casino project. I certainly had the impression from speaking to them that it was a long-awaited opportunity to capture some of the untapped potential that the Niagara Escarpment and the Niagara area had not been able to take advantage of.

A lot of the people who visit the Niagara Falls area go there for actually a very brief period. There are people both in the Niagara region and on behalf of the provincial government who track the length of time that tourists spend in the Niagara region, and particularly in the Niagara Falls region, and many of these travellers are in fact coming to Niagara Falls for the purpose of seeing the falls and seeing some of the other attractions in the area, but they don't always stay for a long period of time. Our government thought that combining the Gateway project with a casino initiative was an ideal way to try to get tourists to stay longer in the area.

Originally the Gateway project was intended to develop the region as a world-class holiday destination and to position the Niagara region as an international tourism gateway to Ontario. It has all along been seen as a combination of private sector tourism development and also a tourism strategy not only for the Niagara area but also for the province.

In February 1996 the decision was made by this government to combine the Gateway project with a casino initiative in order to boost tourism and economic benefits generally in the region.

We know that each year more than 14 million tourists travel to the falls. It is one of the world's most amazing natural attractions, as most Ontarians know. We wanted to make sure that the underdeveloped tourism market in the area and of the province benefited by trying to develop the Gateway project more fully.

One of the people that I was able to discuss this matter with when I was the parliamentary assistant to the minister responsible for tourism was the mayor of Niagara Falls, Mr Wayne Thomson. He's on record as saying that he thinks the combination of a Gateway project and a casino initiative will be of great benefit not only to the city that he's the mayor of but also to the province and particularly the Niagara region beyond the city of Niagara Falls.

Clearly, the idea of a Niagara Falls Casino/Gateway project is to make sure that the tourists who come to that area stay for more than a day trip. We want to have Niagara as a launching point for other destinations in the province.

I know that the people from my area, Muskoka-Georgian Bay, would love to see more people who are visiting Niagara Falls take a trip around the province, perhaps a bus trip or other type of trip, out to see Muskoka and Muskoka-Georgian Bay.

The combined Niagara Falls Casino/Gateway project is the largest single tourism and economic development project in the history of the Niagara region. The objectives of the project, which have been stated very clearly on a public basis not only by our government but also by local interests, are to make a significant and lasting contribution that increases the sustainable economic benefits from tourism in the Niagara region, to act as a catalyst for economic development in the city of Niagara Falls and in the Niagara region and of course to create jobs.

The interim Casino Niagara is already providing many of these benefits. The members from the Niagara region and also municipal representatives from that region will confirm that many of the objects of the Niagara Falls Casino/Gateway project are already in effect, they're already operating as a result of the interim casino. We're sure the full project is going to accomplish even more of those benefits.

In September 1996 the Ontario Casino Corp issued a request for proposals for the Niagara Falls Casino/Gateway project. The corporation coordinated the establishment of an independent selection committee. By the March 1997 deadline, four companies had submitted proposals to bid on the project.

A Toronto newspaper has recently published a number of allegations concerning the integrity of the selection process for the Niagara Falls project. Some of these allegations concern the manner in which the selection process was conducted and also the involvement of the company Coopers and Lybrand. Coopers and Lybrand were in fact advisers to the selection committee. Some of the allegations suggest that Coopers and Lybrand's involvement with third parties is said to have created a conflict of interest.

On June 1, 1998, Management Board of Cabinet instructed the Ontario Casino Corp to direct its legal counsel to determine if there were any breaches concerning Coopers and Lybrand's role as advisers to the selection process or with respect to conflict-of-interest requirements.

The objective of the independent selection committee was to choose the highest-quality proposal. It's worth noting that the selection committee undertook a comprehensive and complex evaluation process in which proposals were evaluated as to how they best met the range of criteria as described in the request for proposals. Each proposal was judged on how well it met a host of criteria. Those criteria included the potential for economic development, the quality of the concept, the bidder's ability to finance the project, the calibre of the business plans and management expertise.

The selection processes for the Windsor and Niagara Falls casino operators were basically the same in virtually all respects. Both had selection committees. These committees were assisted by experts in the specific criteria subject areas. Review panels were appointed to approve the selection criteria and selection process before, during and after the committee's work to ensure the selection process was fair and objective.

In the case of the Niagara process, the review panel included deputy ministers of the Ministry of Economic Development, Trade and Tourism, the Ministry of Finance, the Ministry of Consumer and Commercial Relations and the Management Board Secretariat.

In both Niagara and Windsor, legal counsel provided advice regarding the process and the bids. Both selection committees were solely responsible for providing selection decisions, while the experts provided information and analysis to the selection committee only.

The basic steps taken throughout each process were the same. These steps included a review of the proposals, oral presentations by proponents to the selection committee and questions of clarification to proponents posed by and received by the committee. following this process in Niagara. In February 1998, the selection committee for the Niagara Falls Casino/Gateway project announced its decision on a preferred proponent. That proponent was Falls Management Co.

For the Niagara Falls project, Falls Management Co has selected the Murray Hill site overlooking the falls. Anyone familiar with the Niagara Falls area would understand the location of the Murray Hill site; it's an ideal location for this kind of development. Falls Management has proposed a 100,000-square-foot casino, a 350-room hotel, extensive meeting and exhibition space, a world-class retail mall and a significant entertainment complex.

In addition, the consortium proposes to build a 12,000-seat amphitheatre and entertainment venue. It also proposes to develop River Country, a major addition to the existing Marineland. The proposal also features a monorail as part of the people-mover system currently being planned by the city of Niagara Falls. People who followed the Niagara Falls council discussions over the past few years will be familiar with the idea of a monorail which has been put forward by a number of parties.

The casino and related development will offer a unique blend of year-round experiences, including family-oriented entertainment and world-class accommodation. These are all the kinds of ideas that I'm sure people in the tourism business in the Niagara region are delighted to hear.

At the time of the announcement of Falls Management Co as the preferred proponent for a Casino/Gateway project in February, it was expected that the casino complex, as conceived, would create more than 5,000 direct jobs. Construction of the casino complex would create approximately 5,000 person-years of employment.

The selection committee chose Falls Management Co because the committee felt that among the bidders it had the highest quality proposal. Should the negotiations between the Ontario Casino Corp and Falls Management prove to be successful, the Falls Management proposal will fulfil the objectives of the Casino/Gateway project. Falls Management Co is led by Hyatt, one of the largest and most successful resort and tourism companies in the world. They have 179 hotels and resorts throughout the world. Currently Hyatt operates seven casinos and is a partner on an eighth casino.

Recently Mayor Wayne Thomson of Niagara Falls told a news conference, "When the casino arrived, it was a boon for the city, where cross-border shopping had devastated the local economy and where some major hotels were three years behind in their taxes."

I'm sure we could come up with many quotes from local representatives who are very confident that the combined gateway and casino project will be of great benefit, not only to Niagara Falls but also to the whole region of Niagara. The interim casino has had valuable economic spinoffs, which include more than 9,000 direct and indirect jobs created throughout the province. It generates an estimated $1.3 billion i